This life is more than just a read through

Greeting Feral Cat followers!

Seems that last thread filled quickly, so this is the new, with a new title theme, as MWD says, sometimes you have to try something new to make progress. The title is taken from on of my favorite RHCP songs: "Can't Stop"

My favorite lyrics:
"Can't stop, addicted to the shindig
Chop top, he says I'm gonna win big
Choose not a life of imitation
Distant cousin to the reservation
Defunct, the pistol that you pay for
This punk, the feeling that you stay for
In time, I want to be your best friend
Eastside love is living on the West End
Knock out, but boy you better come to
Don't die you know the truth is some do
Go write your message on the pavement
Burn so bright, I wonder what the wave meant

Kick start the golden generator
Sweet talk, but don't intimidate her
Can't stop the gods from engineering
Feel no need for any interfering
Your image in the dictionary
This life is more than ordinary
Can I get 2 maybe even 3 of these
Comin' from space
To teach you of the Pleiades
Can't stop the spirits when they need you
This life is more than just a read-through"

And here are the old threads for those interested in a historical perspective...

hi PON,

Quote:

T2 curiosity question. You ever try talking with W about "swings".

No, Nope, Hell No!

I keep track for MY purposes, so I know what MAY be in the air. If W asks, then I will give her "just the facts ma'am" like a good scientist. No opinion, conjecture, etc.

Sometimes she asks, and has said that she likes that I keep track of these things. But I do it mostly for myself and my sanity...

And let's add the chorus in from "Can't Stop" ...

"[Chorus:]
The world I love
The tears I drop
To be part of
The wave can't stop
Ever wonder if it's all for you
The world I love
The trains I hop
To be part of
The wave can't stop
Come and tell me when it's time to"

Yup, some positive vibes from RHCP pick me up always.

I guess with my sitch in the past there were things she thought I did which caused her silent treatment or to withdraw. She thought I was going through her dresser draw ended up being kids. She thought I hacked her PC ended up being a hacker . This came out weeks down road . That y I asked you if you ever ask W if something up when u see drastic changes like I just did or you let it go

In short I'm asking T have you ever asked "w something bothering you"

hey hi-

i like your title - soemtimes i think my life is a cheesy "read thru" in a cheesy self help column in a cheesy rag-

it's laughable - if it wasn't so darn miserable on my end sometimes.

oh well huh? perspective is everything - isn't it?

xxo

I'm just sayin

Hi PON,

Quote:

In short I'm asking T have you ever asked "w something bothering you"

If I now get your question...lol

Yes. Especially during the "anger" infused stage.

"W, you appear to be <insert emotion here>. Is there anything I have done, or not done? Anything I have said, or not said? Anything to do with me?"

-If "no" (usually this was the answer), then my response would be something like:"Ah, okay, if you want to talk or vent about it, or whatever, I'll be in the garage doing X, feel free to let me know"

-If "yes", "I'm sorry. Would you like discuss it more now, or would later be better? I'll be in the garage doing X, feel free to let me know."

~~~Something along those parameters....does that help?

That does help but from experience I'll get

"You know why im like this. I want a D. I can't do this anymore"

Makes me want to say

"Oh ok you weren't like this to me last week"

It can be tough, sometimes there is no easy solution and you just have to not take it personally. Give the ol' "I'm sorry you feel that way"

Or, say what you think, maybe alter it from:

Quote:

"Oh ok you weren't like this to me last week"

to:
"Hmmm, I don't remember you being like this last week, but I could be wrong."

Notice the difference when you take out the "to me"? How it sounds? You take away the personal so they can't get as defensive (that they are treating YOU poorly) and want to lash back.

Or, you call her on it. "Then leave". And I have done that, 4 times. She is still here.

What do you want to do, PON? Where do you want to go?
What is Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc? What do you need to do to implement any of those plans?

You are working on you, then don't take her crap personally first, then decide what and how you are going to respond...what response will get you to YOUR goal?

But first, stop taking it personally, imo. That's tough to do, I know. But if you can find NO reason that YOU caused for her to be that way, then it is HER issue, so it's illogical to take it personally.

But you have to be honest with yourself to be sure that YOU did nothing in reality to "make" her react/act that way. Hope that all makes sense.

Keep going!

And for a bit of humor, PON, a few times when I asked W if it was me, etc...a few times she just growled...seriously! Growled...

Then I shrugged, said "okie-dokie then" and went about my business...

Of course I was thinking about maybe getting some of our dog treats out...but...you know...STFU and walk away sometimes is the only logical, and sane, thing to do. I DO value my life...

Thanks T. Sometimes with my W I don't know if I did do something to bother her.
Mostly it is just her but maybe I said or did something not realizing . I'm human I do f up. She gets a thought in her mind sometimes and holds it in(right or wrong)
Thx for that small edit, communication is important

Hmm, where I come from growling is a good thing...a very good thing.

Yeah like I could let that one go by without saying something. Too dang funny!

T2 after thinking more about this. I tried spooning my W Sat night. She started distancing herself Sunday. She has instantly stopped wearing her rings again. (no big deal I know) but definitely has really stopped engauging in open conversation with me since then.
If I know my W her body probably started to feel off after I spooned her and she will blame me for the way her body feels again.
Anyways just letting you know my observations.

Hi T2. I hope it's been a while since W has growled at you!

Regarding the SA your W was subjected to as a child, how has she dealt with it? Did she see it as a major issue for her pain all along? Does she confide in you about it? Has she gone to counseling to help her heal from it?

As you are aware, my W has been through similar. According to her actions and words, she doesn't see it as a big part of her present problems. Others assure me that it has to be... which does make sense.

How have you and your W dealt with this issue?

The Warrior site says it could take 10 years to heal... Ouch!

Thanks!

Interesting about SA. My wife also had this issue

Hello T2, FY and PON. The LBS previously known as LindaM here.�

How interesting in a pathetically sad sort of way, that all of your Ws were exposed to SA. When I was in law school, I worked as a SA nurse for our DA. It was�simultaneously the best and worst thing I've ever done. I only dealt with the immediate emotional and physical trauma, not the aftermath, of course. But I noticed that the betrayal by someone loved and trusted seemed to cause severe emotional devastation. Abuse by a stranger or casual acquaintance caused fear and aggitation, but not that deeply broken spirit. I don't know what happened afterwards though.�

Raine, please 'splain: "Hmm, where I come from growling is a good thing...a very good thing."�

Hi FY,

She has started to deal with it through different channels (talk therapy, etc) several times through the years, but always stopped it seems. She used to confide in me about it, but, not the past 2 years too much. She did a lot right after her dad died and 3 years after.

She knows it is something that has affected her all these years, from childhood onwards. Maybe she denied it during the earlier stages of her mlc, idk. When our kids were young she didn't have time or energy to work on it, per her. Or her other issues, which maybe are tied in or to it, loosely or strongly. I don't know what/when/where/how she plans on tackling it, that's up to her. Or maybe she will come to terms with it all by herself.

I am there for her, she knows this.

Linda and Raine, I do remember when growling had only one interpretation, and it was a good thing...lol!

T2 I do not know how you have the will power to not pursuit your W. Every time my W shows any positive signs of anything I wanted to hop on her like public transporation

Ok, PON, that just made me laugh out loud.

Here's the thing about it. You keep doing that and she is going to have you kicked off the bus. Just sayin.....:)

You know the drill. Detach, give space, GAL. Rinse and repeat.

glad I can make you laugh. Sort of getting tired of waiting for her to hop back on the bus.

PON, therein lies a large part of your problem. You shouldnt be waiting on her. You should be living your life, moving forward, making changes, GAL and getting on your own bus, or train or plane, ya know?

Greetings all!

PON, did you actually say that? LMAO! I guess since I have this "thing" about rejection, I quit thinking too much about it...you know, stoves, hot, burned....

Eventualy I do let go of things I can't control...

Been busy, busy. S1 bounced in from fire, then deployed out again to Oregon, so had lots to wash, clean, re-stock...

Got out for a great hike Sunday, got a wee bit of trail running in, rock scrambles in at about 8000 ft.

Been working nights covering for the night guy, and we are expanding our business, so lots of project work to do.

So, very distracted...

W has been consistently nice, a bit less withdrawn, but working through stuff based on the books lying around.

Not much else to report. Which is a good thing I reckon...

well PON, "like public transportation" is now added to my guy vocabulary...lol...never heard that one before.

Trying to get my sense of humor back!!

T^2, sounds like your life is full and the W is addressing some of her issues -- sounds good.

Originally Posted By: TSquared2

You are working on you, then don't take her crap personally first, then decide what and how you are going to respond...what response will get you to YOUR goal?

But first, stop taking it personally, imo. That's tough to do, I know. But if you can find NO reason that YOU caused for her to be that way, then it is HER issue, so it's illogical to take it personally.

But you have to be honest with yourself to be sure that YOU did nothing in reality to "make" her react/act that way. Hope that all makes sense.

Keep going!

Phenomenal advice - easier to see from the outside though and hard to implement. Like the title thread also.....

Stay strong!

"Been busy, busy. S1 bounced in from fire, then deployed out again to Oregon, so had lots to wash, clean, re-stock...
Got out for a great hike Sunday, got a wee bit of trail running in, rock scrambles in at about 8000 ft.
Been working nights covering for the night guy, and we are expanding our business, so lots of project work to do.
So, very distracted...
W has been consistently nice, a bit less withdrawn, but working through stuff based on the books lying around."

I'm glad your W seems less withdrawn, T, that is GOOD news! And glad to hear you were able to run on the trail and rock climb too, are you feeling better? Your son must be in heaven, deployed again!

I'm trying to follow your very excellent advice not to take everything my H says and does personally. It's hard though, a lot of it seems personal! He's a tad cranky because his visa has not been approved yet, and the scam company he used advertised 7 to 15 days. Ah well, there's still a month before he leaves. And I'm sure RT will come up with some alternate scam plan to this one she cooked up.

I read in this self-help e-book I bought that women should assume that 99% of the things their Hs say and do have absolutely nothing to do with them. My H has even told me that I think about RT more often than he does

As a man, do you think this is true? Women are the total opposite, we think about relationships a lot, even women who are not Standers.

Thank you SA, SF and Linda!

Yes, S1 is soooo happy to be deployed again, it's his passion and I think addiction, lol. This one is several complexes so maybe it'll be a longer term deployment.

And yes, I feel so much better... altitude, clean air and the forest and mountains renew me. Need to get some backpacking in soon, just most of my favorite known spots are burning or at high risk to burn....sigh. Studying the topos for somewhere new and such.

It is tough to not take things personally, especially when they are directed at you, but once you get in the habit it builds. But I still slip there sometimes and have to catch myself and ask my self my own questions...

I think 99% may be a bit high, maybe more useful to figure out what "room" or "compartment" our minds are in first, then go from there as to whether it has much to do with you...?

--------

So W is going for getting employed at the thrift store she is volunteering at. She knows and likes the people, likes that what she does helps kids, and it is close and bike-able, though it won't pay as much as if she were to temp at offices. And she can get 30 hours or less. I have been completely supportive and encouraging, and truly appreciate her reasoning...makes sense, and she feels good about it, whereas temping maybe not so much. W feeling good and her self-esteem rising are very important to me.

And her choices (actions) here may indicate which way she is thinking regarding R/M. The extra income will really help the family, but wouldn't make much of a solo life, at all. But I could be wrong. Though I keep seeing more and more of "real" W, so...just gonna roll with it and see what comes out of the cocoon.

My gut/intuition feels okay...calm and quiet. So I will match up the rest of me to my gut, calm and quiet. Just be myself.

T2,
Your wife is baking up nicely, slowly but surely. The position at the thrift store has really helped w/her esteem issues.

You've done an excellent job of being a friend to her and that will continue a while longer. Bottom line, she knows that she has a really great guy for a husband and is trying to find her way back to you.

Hang in there!

T2 wanted to ask you something. Not sure if you have followed my sitch at all. My W continuously txt OM. Some are ex flames etc. Did you have any of these issues in your journey? Did you set any boundaries with W? I'm getting very frustrated with the hiding of txt to ex flames etc..

I think W's decision to become employed at the thrift store is a great clue as to how she is thinking about your future together. If she was planning to leave any time soon she'd be going for the big bucks, not the self fulfillment!

And you are doing a great job being your usual DB busting self T^2, supportive as heck!

I bet it's pretty hard to break out of a cocoon, especially when you are trying to escape from it by unwinding all the threads instead of bursting out all at once. W is going to emerge as her old beautiful butterfly self either way, but I think slowly unwinding is much better and longer lasting for a cautious deep thinker like your W.

Thank you Snodderly

Yes, it appears the fast spin is slowing down, still some disconnect with making what should be joint decisions, still a lot of internal work going on based on the books I see about (a lot of guilt recovery books). But there is a consistency growing, such as being pleasant, thinking of "outside world" things and other people, etc. She is also looking at me "differently" sometimes, I haven't figured out exactly "how" yet, but feels like "good" I guess. And the tension in the house that you spoke of in FY's thread is down, quite a bit. Time will tell, as always.

Thank you RL! I would think so too, but I have to remember that what makes "sense" is different for everyone, as MLC has taught me very well, lol!

Hi PON, yes, W through most of this has obsessively used texting, IM via fb and yahoo, email, webcam s3x, even at least one PA...etc, ad nauseum. MY choice was to do my best to ignore it and let it burn itself out. Not always successfully as my posts here would attest to, I still had my anger, sadness, etc spells from it.

I put certain boundaries, such as not in the MBR, and I built her her own computer so she wouldn't do her "activities" on the kids computers anymore...she wasn't very good about "hiding" her tracks, even with the coaching of some of her OM's (they had no idea of who they are dealing with when it comes to computers with this guy (me)...lol...n00bs).

But yes, I ignored it best I could, and chose to not dig or snoop very much. If she left something open, or left it on a piece of paper laying about on the table or whatever, then I would take a look sometimes. But for MY sanity, and to further MY goal of R, I chose to make allowances, overlook, etc because I know myself, once I started I would have to know everything and obsess about finding all the details. I know, psychologically, what has been driving that particular part of her replay actions, so I know/knew, that she HAD to play it out and reach her own conclusions. That is how she is, and I am as well.

That is MY method, tolerance, etc. It might not be right for you though. And though the sound of anyone's IM informing them they have a new message triggers me some and makes me cringe...I am rather happy with the growth and understanding, and strength, that my choice has given me. Seriously, I am pretty darn unflappable now, again, like I used to be years ago. It was a method of recovering something about me that I liked, was useful, but had lost along the family, career journey. Maybe a mad/crazy method, but a method none the less..lol

oh and PON, looking back, since that activity seems to have stopped with W, it doesn't mean much in the big picture to me. I feel pretty much over it, kinda "okay then, hope you got answered "those" questions within yourself" attitude.

It doesn't hurt anymore. The past is called the past because it has passed.

Both W and I were with others before we got together, and that didn't ruin that aspect of our relationship.

Who knows, maybe what she learned about herself doing this will benefit the new R with me, assuming there is one, of course...lol.

But if it starts up again, then things change most likely.

One of my BIL wants to be friends now on that fb thingy, hasn't been for the last 2 years, though he has been on it...things that make you go "hmmm"

T^2, what's your gut feeling about BIL and the FB friend request?

Hi rH,

Well two "observations" (lol, naturally...)

-He was on friends, then dropped off sometime when W was in "I hate T2 mode", and this brother she talks to a lot (when she talked with family), so maybe he heard all her stuff and thought I was a complete a-hole or loser...

-He also had to go through his own recovery during this past couple years, so maybe he dropped out of the friends thing everywhere, and is now rebuilding ties...idk.

Maybe my gut is saying that he has info that I haven't heard yet, and that would have to be something good, because why reconnect with someone who is on the way "out" of the family? That sort of thing...lol. I am trying to not ponder it too much, just keeping a mild curiosity, and interacting quietly via "likes" and stuff.

As you know, the answers do come, without us trying too hard by being patient and listening quietly...

Ok, I see. Like if W was really ditching the M there would be no reason to contact her H.

Yes, as if MLC isn't complicated enuf for the immediate family, adding in friends and relatives during recconex can be interesting.

I got a call yesterday from a first cousin of mine from the west coast that I haven't seen or talked to for 7 years. It gave me an opportunity to handle explaining some changes without blame and sounding/being comfortable with who we are right now.

It's certainly a never ending journey but very pleasant for me at this point

T2 I would like to ask your opinion. For some reason I relate to your posts and your advice. I've been walking through a 12 step program and looking inward at myself. The problem I am struggling with is my W is texting OM (old flames etc).

Part of me wants me to let her know that I find hurtful and that I don't that type of stuff should go on in a marriage. Sort of say "when OM txt you I feel very uncomfortable and hurt" then STFU. This was the only way I could come up with non attacking.

I know you have walked this walk and wanted to hear your thoughts on it. I know I have to continue to do my work but also feel I'm not being honest with myself and my W by hold this type of crap in. Thoughts.

T2 when it rains it pours. My W somehow got onto my laptop at home and read several of my threads. She absolutely hates my guts and stated she has filed. UGH. Long night

I am really sorry to hear that PON...

She has stated that, but have you seen proof? Been served?

BUT NOW, you need to protect yourself, see your lawyer if you haven't already...as in, TODAY!!

And change your password on your computer to something VERY strong, something there is no way she could guess...asap.

Take deep breathes, assume nothing.

You will get through this.

I have not been served. Actually when I pushed back last night and said I would take care of the papers and what was her L's name she absolutely refused. She said I will file. I will take care of it. I said no that I will get the process going and she pushed back. No I haven't seen any papers. She said it takes 2 weeks. When they are ready she will ask for my L's name

Hmmm, well, you could either wait out the 2 weeks and see if she is bluffing OR RE-ACTING...

Or, you could go file yourself and have your L expedite things, and call her out, see what she is really about.

You can always put the process on hold if she is bluffing or RE-acting out of anger and such.

I would still see a L ASAP and get your ducks and defenses lined up.

Maybe others will chime in who have better experience than I, because in my sitch, W had second thoughts, so I held off until this fall per her request.

I spoke to my L. he did say it is possible for papers to take about 2 weeks to file. Courts are slow..

I guess I'll wait 2 weeks. What is 2 weeks in the grand scheme of all this

Not much going on that is different, so not much to update.

Realized last night that is only been a couple months since our "anniversary D talk", but seems much longer ago.

W got the job, it was interesting that she was ambivalent about it, happy, but not...maybe it is just the change, and a true step out from being a SAHM, or maybe that she will lose the "freedom" of being a volunteer who can just not go in that day, idk...won't unless/until she talks about it. Of course I congratulated her and all very enthusiastically.

School starts in 3 weeks, no signs of W's imminent departure or any words yet as to stay or go...big steps for the kids entering middle school and high school each...they are nervous, but excited.

S1 texted me last night from fire to make sure I was okay, he had a nightmare where I got some illness or something and died the next day, tore up his sleep...odd.

I am feeling sorta like a broken record, "3rd verse same as the 1st"...lol.

Eh, whatever, September is re-eval month, and 2 years from BD#1 anniversary, this week is 2 years from when she created her first online adult profile (of many)... I note these in passing, because I am not really all that bothered, not much emotional reaction going on...sort of like remembering a long lost friend...yes, it happened, but it has passed. I guess this is what "letting go" of those things feels like. And I ponder the changes, the growth, the journey of all this.

The self help books about her space include the gamut...recovering from guilt, fixing broken relationships, "conscious" loving, menopause, money issues, etc...I haven't looked into them, just at the titles...but some are ones I have read, that we have had around for years, before mlc even. A couple are mine actually. So, just yet another observation... lol

My stand is still unchanged...if she wants to stay and work on a new R, I will give it my all, and I still believe in that it can be great, and that she can work this stuff out, that we can be a great couple again. If she doesn't, I won't fight it anymore, and file to give her her D, and move forward and/or on.

As always, comments, thoughts etc welcome...

Quote:

I guess I'll wait 2 weeks.

"There is no "guess", there is do, or, do not."
--some green Jedi dude.

PON, you choose, and do not second guess yourself once you choose, okay? Makes life much more anxiety ridden if you second guess and go back on yourself. And yes, what's 2 weeks...

I will say though, that I have changed in a big way for me (and it is a "me", not the sitch, kinda change).

When I was hiking, I was rather talkative to the park ranger, some other hikers, etc...just really open and "me"...before I would be kind of reserved. And made some new friends or acquaintances, getting some practice at being just "open", "real" me and being okay with whatever response I get. Now I find I will talk with, approach just about any one...so making some progress there with myself.

I guess after the rejection and such of BD and this whole, drawn out sitch, I have grown to not be afraid of it anymore, I mean, I have been through the worst rejection I can imagine (maybe parental rejection would be worse, not sure). Funny thing is, most of the time people like me (as far as I can tell).

They have to be polite to you because you're still wearing those funny goggles!!

They just don't know how to bring it up!

lmao Wonka! Oh my.... thing is, I live in a part of the western US that people are pretty blunt and to the point...kinda like NY'ers, but slower in delivery...

"Son, there just ain't something "right" about you...I reckon it's those goggles...yup, the goggles"

You crack me up Wonka!

T^2, I've found the same about myself. I've never met a stranger but also rarely approached one. Now I find myself initiating conversation with practically anyone. And have no concern as to the subject matter or their reaction. I think I maybe running for political office and just forgot to file?

Idk, MtnMan...maybe losing the "safety net" of our spouses has pushed us to grow and re-discover something about ourselves, maybe even grow some new and different trust in ourselves??

Wish me luck. Disabling account T2. This episode really made me think

I wish you much luck, you can do anything you set your mind to...here is an affirmation I use:

Quote:

I am a deliberate thinker. I have the power to make a choice right now. I am in control of myself and my thoughts.

Take care!

People would have to be crazy not to like you, T2. Good on you for getting out there and spreading the fun that is you around. I'm sure hoping for you that the crazy in your life wakes up and makes up for the past two years of her life that she has missed out on.

It's better, right? It's better than when it started. Right now is better than x, and y, and z markers that have made up this fractured period of your life. So if we do a plot graph on this crisis, we can determine as fact the following:

This is not as good as it gets. It's gonna get a helluva lot better. Karma has some payback to deliver to you, and my guess is it will be coming with chocolate covered strawberries. Onwards and upwards.

Just one more step, and then probably a few dozen more, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Oh why not...go get on ahead and focus on knowing there are good things to come. You've done and are doing the work. Focus on the happy, cause life for you is going to be great, no matter what.

Originally Posted By: TSquared2

Idk, MtnMan...maybe losing the "safety net" of our spouses has pushed us to grow and re-discover something about ourselves, maybe even grow some new and different trust in ourselves??

^ ^ ^ Definitely!

Thanks for the update T. Time does seem to be sort of warped here in MLC High, doesn't it? It's nice that W got the job;�I'd think it would be good for her self esteem and PMA to be bringing in some money. Hopefully! That's some range of self help books she's perusing. Interesting that some are yours! Any on MLC?

Poor S1, scary dream! I hope all's well in fire fighting land. My S27 announced that he decided to join the Air Force. I think it would be good for him, but he says a lot of stuff lol!

"I am feeling sorta like a broken record, "3rd verse same as the 1st"...lol.

Eh, whatever, September is re-eval month, and 2 years from BD#1 anniversary, this week is 2 years from when she created her first online adult profile (of many)... I note these in passing, because I am not really all that bothered, not much emotional reaction going on...sort of like remembering a long lost friend...yes, it happened, but it has passed. I guess this is what "letting go" of those things feels like. And I ponder the changes, the growth, the journey of all this."

I'm so glad you have been able to let all those things go T. Sort of detached about them?

Sept has been a re-eval month for my H too. He broke off his first 2 year long EA in Sept 2011, and broke off his original EA with the Russian Tramp in Sept 2012. He'll spend Sept 2013 in Moscow with her, and I have a feeling it will change his life forever. For good or bad, and whether I'll still be a part of his life come October remains to be seen.�

Like you I've been pondering my own changes and those of my own H. And those of the other folk on this forum. You seem to be pretty steadfast. No fast lane for your W but she seems to be progressing steadily but slowly. Like the easy bake oven compared to the microwave. I'm hoping for your sake that she cranks that temperature gauge back up with passion for you really soon my friend.�

I've said this before, that I am certain that you two WILL work all this stuff out, and that you WILL �be a great couple again!�

Raine is right "This is not as good as it gets. It's gonna get a helluva lot better. Karma has some payback to deliver to you, and my guess is it will be coming with chocolate covered strawberries. Onwards and upwards."

Hang in there T!�

Thank you Raine and RL!!

Just a quick note...

We actually sorta worked together in the kitchen last night...she made dinner...I was going to make dinner, but deferred to her since she had something planned.

W came to the bedroom doorway, she wanted me to verify some turkey, if it was still good (I was in bedroom reading, the bedroom is on a different level of the house) so I said bring it over, but she insisted that I come to kitchen to make sure it looked okay (the bedroom has full spectrum daylight lighting in the ceiling fixture, I think it would have been bright enough, lol) so I followed her up and yes, it was fine, both smell and sight...This was "different", normally she'd just bring it over where I was to check it out and then leave (even pre-mlc days)...

...So W hurts herself in kitchen, and after showing appropriate concern, I go into "parent-mode"..."Do you want me to kiss the boo-boo and make it allll betterrrrr?" with the parent look that you'd give to a 4 year old, but exagerrated. She just had this look of "did he just say that?", putting down what she was holding, then starts to smile, almost laugh and looks at me...I just couldn't hold the "parent" expression and start to bust up laughing saying "I can't do it, I can't do it!" and just let loose with laughter (I'm almost positive a snort was involved) and I start to walk away laughing, she is actually almost laughing saying "what the heck?" and I just say "Oh man, I crack me up, I'm the funniest person I know cuz I crack me up more than anyone else I know" (where did that come from and how did it slip out? lol)

Then she says... "DID YOU just say "you're the funniest person you know cuz you crack yourself up more than anyone else ?"

I went "yup, it just slipped out somehow" shrugging. Went about my business herding cats or whatever.

Thing is, I SAW the "old look" when she thought I was funny/fun/whatever from all these years...it was there for that minute.

What was cool was it just flowed natural, just being me (new+old)...no try, just be.

Maybe a wee crack in the wall happened?

T2,
Nice job! I believe you've seen a teensy weensy crack in the wall.

BTW, I hope your w is okay and didn't hurt herself too badly.

Keep up the good work!

Thank you Snodderly

No it was just a little "owie", nothing serious at all. Which opened it up for fun.

You showed her some PMA too! You have to have confidence to make fun of yourself, and to brag on yourself. Well played.

It was sweet. It was cute. I like it.

Just being you ... the old you mixed with the new & improved you. And she liked it.

Ok T2 I'm still on board. I requested my account be closed but admin never did. Of course I am FREAKED out. My W has called L that she already met with. After finding this forum she said "you haven't changed at all, you're on the internet bashing me to everyone." She said she is filing. The L's # all over our caller id and she has a babysitter for Friday morning. I know deep within my heart it had nothing to do with the forum. she has been looking for validation to leave me for quite sometime. She has been snooping my phone and email and she kept coming up empty handed. She has been waiting for me to make a mistake. Finding the forum is just her internal justification. She WAS not happy reading that I thought she had some sort of mood disorder/MLC going on.

I did try speaking with her but she wanted to do with conversation. She just kept cursing at me. I said snooping in my personal forum is like taping my counseling session.

Stuff came out that I was fearing to tell her. Like her txting other dudes. How hurtful I thought it was. That after family vacation trip she distanced herself for no good reason. that she made up some excuse why but then 2 weeks later retracted it.

We went over EA. She didn't know our abbreviations. She thought it meant extramartial affair. i explained emotional affair the best I could without attacking. Basically saying OM got attached to you enough to make a pass at you while we were separated.

So much came out but in the end she feels I haven't changed and this was final straw to break the camels back.

One of the reasons we got physically separated in the past was because I was narotic about her hormones. I know this. So for her to read me referencing it again made her LIVID. sorry that is how I feel and that is what I feel is part of our problem.

She told me that I was the sole reason she had a nervous breakdown. That she went to hospital 5 times with panic attacks. (I did remind her I was by her side each time). Her breakdown started after she weened our youngest off breast feeding. But she continued to blame me for her breakdowns.

She also blamed me and said our failed M was 100% my fault. Basically she was the perfect W for 9 years and I was selfish. that me helping out now with laundry and stuff isn't enough.

Basically I feel my W checked out of this M long time ago and she was faking it to try to make it. I've been trying to be perfect (not healthy environment) and not make 1 mistake but it was always something I did.

I tried to explain that DB forum was a save your marriage forum and self help to make me a better person. Without it I wouldn't be making any changes within myself. Did not want to hear it. I said it was private and anonymous.

I'm sick to my stomach today. I've cried all morning like a baby. Not in front of her etc..I'm hurting. Part of me knows that this M is so toxic and unhealthy. that if she does no work it really won't work. I can't do it by myself.

I know that what happened, happened for a reason. the bandaid came off. There were lots of positive things in my posts that she read. (i read all the posts she read based on history tab).
She chose to find the hormonal, mood disorder, mlc ones. It really did look BAD.

sorry for jacking your thread but you have been there for me in the past and I don't want to start my own for now. I'm trying to go underground and still get support. Ugh. Thank you

TDF,
It's too late now, but you should have put a lock on your laptop so that she wouldn't have been snooping. She's going to continue coming back to the check the postings for evidence of you and your postings. She's paranoid right now and anything that she can get on you, she will use it. Please stop watching her for any signs of change. It takes a long time to heal old wounds and she's got plenty to deal w/and doesn't want your help right now.

I'm sorry that things turned out the way that they did, but maybe now, you will step way back and leave her alone. She needs time and space to figure things out for herself. You, on the other hand, need to continue on w/what you were doing in the way of support off line. You need to walk your own life's journey on your on and rediscover the person who is buried deep within.

Please stop trying to diagnosis her problems. That is the one thing that anyone in mlc or any other type of condition wants to hear from others. Like an addict, she will need to figure things out by herself. The more you try to talk to her about it, the more determined she will be to walk away and not truly listen to what you have to say. Leave her alone!

Now, turn the focus back on to you and start living some of the steps you've learned thus far. Those steps are: patience, keeping the focus on you, finding new hobbies, etc., giving her space and time, no more relationship discussions and learn to listen and validate. One last thing...keep the focus on you and your children from now. Learn to accept that she's not the person you once knew. Until you learn to accept that you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her, you will continue to spin. The only person you can fix is yourself and that's the most important thing right now.

Again, I'm sorry about your situation.

T2, sorry for my hi-jack.

Thx Snodderly. I'm pretty sure she is filing tomorrow which makes me really really sad.

and yes I shouldn't have been posting MLC,hormonal etc on here. The posts should have been around what I was doing to fix me. I requested my threads be removed (done) and my account closed. Damage is done.

Thing is, I SAW the "old look" when she thought I was funny/fun/whatever from all these years...it was there for that minute.
What was cool was it just flowed natural, just being me (new+old)...no try, just be.
Maybe a wee crack in the wall happened?

T, thanks for sharing that cute exchange with W. I think when we and our spouses can just enjoy each other and share humor again, even if just for a minute, it does make a wee crack in the wall. And we all know what happens once there is a wee crack - it's much easier to get a wedge in there and pry the whole thing right open.

P, what a horrible thing to have happened, sorry. A problem is that even if you close your account, stuff that you have posted is already available online via google. So W is sort of right - in her eyes you ARE on the internet bashing her to everyone. I inadvertently learned this when googling something about Russia (my H's OW is a Russian Tramp) and to my horror, a post I had written on this forum popped up. Yikes! I changed my name and location.

I have read a lot of your old threads in the past, and you have been at this a long time. You aren't always doing everything perfectly, but which of us do things as well as T? Not me, that's for sure. I disagree that you should not have been writing about your W's hormones etc on this forum, the forum is for us and what ever is bothering us. We are friends and support each other.

Like Snodderly said, turn the focus back on you. You know the drill, and also that no matter what you do, everything is always the Stander's fault when the MLCer is in certain stages. Nothing you can do about that at all. Just secure your computer, and go back to DBing the best you can.

Holy carp! I just put in to change my username. Based on what Linda said I Googled just my username, and one of the first hits was a post from here. Geez. (And I'm supposed to be computer savvy). The problem is, I use that name in other places. Not that I think my W is Googling my username, but...

Google is just too pervasive.

Nice job, T2. Just be you, my friend. You can never go wrong.

BTW, I find myself hysterically funny. Is that bad? LOL!

uR, I think it's just one of the reason I think you're so great!

Aww, thanks Raine. Back at ya~

From what I read somewhere recently, Google performs personalized searches based on your computers history. Someone on another computer will not get exactly the same result as you. IE your posts came up because that's what you look at. IDN.

Using the same name here as you do in other area's of your life is not a good idea if you'd like to remain anonymous.

If someone knows you're posting here, changing your name won't prevent them from finding your posts if they're really set on doing so.

I like to try to post as if W may see it some day. Heck, maybe she's following along right now. Hi honey, I'm here because I think you're special and you mean a lot to me!

FY, that's the sweetest

Hi TDF...please listen to what Snodderly wrote to you...this is your journey now...let her file, see what happens. There are recent sitches here that have gone right up to the D line (rH), and some not. Main thing, protect yourself, lose the emotions when dealing with the possible D...its pure business at that point.

Focus on you and the kids...leave her be.

uR and Raine, your humor, and that of others here have saved me, and re-kindled the dying ember of my old fun self and fanned it back into a raging fire (of the good kind).

RL--humor...the best medicine for the soul I think sometimes...

That is great fY! I'm going to steal it...

FTR, anyone can hijack my threads, no worries, I'm easy, lol.

"Heck, maybe she's following along right now. Hi honey, I'm here because I think you're special and you mean a lot to me!"

If you want to turn off google's personalized web search, add

&pws=0

to the end of the URL after you have done your search and hit enter to go to that url and it search again without the personalization. It will look something like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=divorce+busting&pws=0

RH: You had somebody snoopin' on your posts. I was afraid we were going to lose you for a bit, or that you wouldn't be able to really post much. What ever happened with that?

Obviously it didn't sabotage your efforts to DB, since nowadays you make Hubby, ummm, late for work.

Yes, it was someone pretty close too and I felt it was very damaging to the R I have with this person.

But I sorta felt like eventually that the value I get from this site overrides the problem with this person. H & I have talked to the person together and begged them to stay away, explaining it was an important outlet for me.

H has never been interested in my emails or much of my communications with others ever. He musta seen this site come up and he has a way of trying to look at my iPhone or iPad while not leaving his open for view. I think he just wants to see what I'm up to in general, but doesn't need details. Details bore him.

IMO, it all depends on the person. I can see the revelation of details on this site destroying one person and encouraging another.

In my case, I try to limit any posts about anything having to do with that person and also try to limit fun and interesting details about some subjects. (Such as how short the skirt was or how high the heels, lol!!)

Originally Posted By: reachingHigher

H & I have talked to the person together and begged them to stay away, explaining it was an important outlet for me.

Wait... So h knows you post here? When did he learn of this?

H has never been interested in my emails or much of my communications with others ever.

Pre-crises, I used to post on car and bicycle forums, and it would bug W. "Who are you talking to", "what's so important". Looking back, she obviously felt cheated that I was spending time on others and not her. I really did mess up by not correcting that at the time.

Now, she shows no interest in my activities. I guess cause she's done.

I never snoop at her stuff.

In my case, I try to limit any posts about anything having to do with that person and also try to limit fun and interesting details about some subjects. (Such as how short the skirt was or how high the heels, lol!!)

OMG, I can see I'll never live that one down!

I forget how H found out. I might have told him. He was amazed at how well I was taking everything and handling it last year. I really wasn't, but he wasn't living here so I only showed him my best side.

At some point, maybe when I asked him for the money for a DB coach, I told him I was posting on what I call "divorce support" forum. Sometimes I've even mentioned things that happen to people here....like one time I mentioned, during a family supper, that Labug homeschools her two sons and the one in college made dean's list.

Or I said about T^2 living somewhere in the Rockies, and was like an engineer type person. Our family took a vacation up in Colorado one year and did some hiking in RMNP, so I felt that was interesting that I had a cyber friend somewhere over there.

I explained clearly that the forum isn't designed for people to meet each other to form new R's with one another, but only to support and foster their M R.

So the whole family knows I'm on it. Sometimes privately to H, I'll mention something about a couple here and their interaction (or lack thereof). So it's an accepted topic in our household. I explained its cyber friends and people are drawn together for mutual support and advice.

H doesn't seem interested in what I post. But he does like that it obviously has helped me become a better mate and more understanding of his new ways, during MLC and post-MLC.

When my W snooped and found my DB coaching notes, she said it was "kind of creepy, and showed I wasn't listening." I think that was a big push for her to OM when she talked to a L and brought up D talk. It was a stupid mistake on my part not taking my notebook with me. But, can't go back and fix it now.

So W had to fill out her W-4...this was uncomfortable, because she hasn't done it in so long, and how to do the deductions....I SOOO wanted to say, "depends on if we are going to be married or not, makes a difference..."

But, I just acted "as if" and suggested for if we are still going to be married and all, without saying it...and that's what she rolled with...

Why can't she just say something like "I am not leaving, I still have a bunch of stuff to work through, but I want to stay married to you, I see the possibility of a great R" or something like that...man, that would get rid of the limbo feelings in me. My work is expanding, the next 2 years is going to be awesomely crazy busy building new things and secure my future, the kids' future, hers if she sticks around...and a lot of work, a lot of stress...I don't need this limbo, or a D in the middle of it and all the change and stress that entails. Arrrrgh!!

Ok, done venting...lol...not always so detached...sneaks in every now and then. This limbo does have it's draining power, that's for sure, have to re-claim detached...

Good on you, T, acting as if.

Yea, um, about wanting her to say that.....where you been, man? LOL!

Ah, T, I'd be worried about you if you didnt feel like this once in a while. Let's face it, limbo succks.

You gotta focus on all the other stuff. No short cuts, sorry. She has to work through each part in order to come out the other side. And she is.

I know you got this. So, back on your path, my friend. I have an extra long, extra strong patience shovel with your name on it.

Looks like you handled it the right way, T^2. I get frustrated with your W too from this distance! So glad you are patient and kind. Yet sometimes have to get out the Grrrrr!!!!!

Maybe I just got "tested", as this was a perfect time for me to go about asking off-handedly...

Eh, whatever....*sigh*

<grumble>

Originally Posted By: TSquared2

Why can't she just say something like "I am not leaving, I still have a bunch of stuff to work through, but I want to stay married to you, I see the possibility of a great R" or something like that...man, that would get rid of the limbo feelings in me.

Yes, I think this is common. My W will not acknowledge that she feels anything for me, except under duress such as when I kicked her out. When she was packing her stuff, she left me a message that include the line, " I do love you." Yet now that she is back, I'll not hear that again.

I think this is part of the MLC. They will not say, "hey, I have issues, but deep down I realize it is better to stay here and that I love you." I think you go by their actions. She is there, so clearly she believes it is better to be married.

I need a tricked-out diamond-plate "monster shovel" built by Jesse James. With power send-off.

Yes, I should know by now, and I do, SA.

Maybe the combo of 2 years into all this, and her own stated "time"...taking the summer to decide, and well, summer is quickly coming to a close...has me distracted and as uR would say..."antsy"...and I know the change in business, what is ahead, is definitely affecting my patience...it's showtime in my work, I need no distractions...

okay, I WANT fewer distractions, fewer unsettled things so I can focus on building our future...there, that's better...

Not so sure it was a test. So, put that thought behind you. Serves no purpose to think about it that way, right?

You know, we have milestones we look at, we Standers. So, because it is two years and her saying she is taking the summer to think about things has you feeling antsy.

And that's ok, T. You are frustrated and that's ok, too.

Stating you want fewer distractions allows you to say what you feel and hope.

The thing of all this is, it all happens as it is supposed to happen. So it is best to just get it all out and then get back on your path.

MLC just takes a lonnngggg freakin time. No way around it.

One monster shovel coming up for you, my friend

T2, Snodderly. I let this sitch control me. It spikes my anxiety and with anxiety I don't make the right situations. There is so much hurt and resentment that comes from my W. It is beyond anything I ever seen. I think my sponsor hit it on the head, give up and move on. Do your work, give up, and move on. This is so hard for me to do, but in my heart I know this is what needs to happen. I continue to make mistakes everyday which compounds our issues. I'm not being honest with myself or her at times. She sees right through it.

So at this point I am going LRT and Dark as I can be with kids correct

yup TDF, dim as possible with her, just focus on YOU and the KIDS.

Think of it like you are living with a roommate with issues, and don't let the roommate affect your work or PMA, and don't get into your roommate's shizz. Well, that's what I tried to do pretty much.

TDF "T2, Snodderly. I let this sitch control me. It spikes my anxiety and with anxiety I don't make the right situations. There is so much hurt and resentment that comes from my W. It is beyond anything I ever seen. I think my sponsor hit it on the head, give up and move on. Do your work, give up, and move on. This is so hard for me to do, but in my heart I know this is what needs to happen. I continue to make mistakes everyday which compounds our issues. I'm not being honest with myself or her at times. She sees right through it.

So at this point I am going LRT and Dark as I can be with kids correct"

Sorry this latest development is making you feel so anxious TDF. I've been thru that when my own H was in his hateful anger stage. That pounding heart, hamster on an exercise wheel, racing thought,�out of control feeling is the worst. It does make it hard (impossible?) to think rationally and make good decisions. Deep breathing and �counting my blessings helps me. Maybe you could try some exercise or meditation or deep breathing?

Please don't give up and move on while you are feeling like this. LRT is hard when you're living together but I watched a youtube about "limited contact" for married couples living together that said it can be even more effective than no contact between people living apart. It said the potential WAS can really feel you pull away, really see your changes and will start to realize that SHE is losing YOU!

So do what T says, dim it down, and focus on you and your kids. Good luck TDF, hang in there.�

Thx Rosa. All I can say when the wheels fall they fall off. Seems like I can't get out from underneath this negative lense lately. I have the midas touch of death. Seems like when I get over 1 hurdle I trip over 2 more. I keep picking myself up though. I honestly dont know how.

Nothing much to post about...guess I have joined FY, TVS and others at the "Paint Drying" exhibit at the Museum Of MLC.

Taking some time out from the forum for my own thoughts and such.

W continues to be nicer, yet distant. Adjusting to having to work, processing her own stuff I reckon.

I continue to live my my life, GAL, getting out more and trying this "old+new" T2 creation on the world, interacting with people much more than I ever used to, at the grocery store, vendors associated with work, etc. So far so good, no terrible faux pas yet, but the future is unknown...lol

. School starts soon so registering them this week and all...fixing vehicles...eh, normal life stuff.

Nominal to profile.

my mistake was going through the mail on Monday and seeing a giant package in the mail addressed to my W from her L. Guessing it is a contract to retain, to quick for actual papers. But seriously she couldn't pick them up and be a little discreet. She did hide them from me after the fact. She didn't know I went through the mail. She also deleted all the L's #'s off the caller ID. Whatever that means. Either way she is in position to file rather quickly. I called my L and I'm ready too

One thing I wanted to mention, for whoever, and for my journal:

The more I get out into the world and try out this "old+new me" thing I created, the more I am convinced/comforted that this MLC thing really wasn't all about me, that it is the mlc'er. Yes, I contributed a lot to the M issues, but have remedied them. Of course I wonder if this could have been all dealt with in MC without having a crisis, but, that's not how things rolled. I accept that. It was/is reality.

I have regained "myself", built a better self, done the work, the hard work, that this mlc journey provides such an opportunity for...it was a good thing in the end, if a painful thing. I am not what the mlc'er claimed; those things that destroy self-esteem, self-confidence, faith, trust in life when we are initial told and spewed at by the one person we trusted, opened up to, the most in life.

But I know now I am going to be okay no matter what life throws at me, and I have modelled that for my boys, and am teaching them how best I can.

"This life is more than just a read through" is really getting a lot of spin time of my jukebox...

T^2 "The more I get out into the world and try out this "old+new me" thing I created, the more I am convinced/comforted that this MLC thing really wasn't all about me, that it is the mlc'er. Yes, I contributed a lot to the M issues, but have remedied them. Of course I wonder if this could have been all dealt with in MC without having a crisis, but, that's not how things rolled. I accept that. It was/is reality.

I have regained "myself", built a better self, done the work, the hard work, that this mlc journey provides such an opportunity for...it was a good thing in the end, if a painful thing. I am not what the mlc'er claimed; those things that destroy self-esteem, self-confidence, faith, trust in life when we are initial told and spewed at by the one person we trusted, opened up to, the most in life.

But I know now I am going to be okay no matter what life throws at me, and I have modelled that for my boys, and am teaching them how best I can. "

Hey T, just trying to catch up on some of my friends' sitches but it's so hard to read with this double vision. But it makes me want to burst into song every time I say it! I am so glad to hear you say that you truly really honestly now know that W's MLC wasn't about you! That is a great step forward. All of us know that intellectually, but our traitor hearts keep telling us differently.

You really are a wonderful human being you know, goggles, clipboard and all. You WILL be okay, and your sons will be okay too! With or without W. But I know in my heart that she is one of the ones who will get over this insanity, and that you will someday be naming your threads "happily ever after!"

TDF "All I can say when the wheels fall they fall off. Seems like I can't get out from underneath this negative lense lately. I have the midas touch of death. Seems like when I get over 1 hurdle I trip over 2 more. I keep picking myself up though. I honestly dont know how.

You keep picking yourself up because you are a strong, good man P. That letter from the lawyer must have been a kick in the teeth; I'm glad you are ready to protect yourself too. But it does not necessarily mean the end. Honestly. Please try to think more positive thoughts. Do you have a good friend or pastor or someone to talk to, to pour your heart out to? Do you have a FB alias? It is pretty comforting to me.

T2 great words. Sometimes when spewed upon you believe it all. Rosa yes a nice kick in the teeth. I'm trying to stay under radar and get myself in a position to handle a D.

This sounds so solid, T^2. It sounds like the hard work you have done is paying off. I wonder what it will be like when you and W start more of a reconnection.

Maybe my sitch went too fast at the end. I do have H in my arms but I'm sure he has not processed all his stuff. He just didn't wanna lose me. He can be pretty snippy with me.

And I now wonder how much of him is teeny bopper? How much is typical guy stuff? (driving home slightly drunk in pouring rain at 70 mph, radio blaring, texting me on his phone ... doing a few donuts on the pavement before entering the gravel roads that lead to our house). The incessant drive for more entertainment.

My IC asked me recently how long do I think this stage will go on. From different things H has said, maybe four more years? Idk.

I continue to watch your sitch and posts with great interest b/c you seem so grounded. Hopefully when W is ready to come back she will be REALLY ready.

This time of year can be really busy to get ready for school, I agree.

Always thinking of you,
Always wishing the best for you,
For W,
For the family,
rH

Originally Posted By: TSquared2

One thing I wanted to mention, for whoever, and for my journal:

The more I get out into the world and try out this "old+new me" thing I created, the more I am convinced/comforted that this MLC thing really wasn't all about me, that it is the mlc'er. Yes, I contributed a lot to the M issues, but have remedied them.

...

I have regained "myself", built a better self, done the work, the hard work, that this mlc journey provides such an opportunity for...it was a good thing in the end, if a painful thing.

I like your term "old+new me" -- I agree with this idea that the shock of the MLC causes us to change too. I am also happy with some of the changes that have become part of my personality, outlook, and way of life now. One thing that has changed is I've become more independent of my W. After such a long marriage I think my identity became associated with the marriage as if I didn't exist separately from the marriage. I think this happens to a lot of couples.

Hi T!

This paint drying museum exhibit is definitely not one of my favorites

Something that I've been thinking about that I've noticed, in our sitches and others...

I think that sometimes when we are just doing the "normal life stuff" and things seem quiet and status quo, that it may appear nothing much is going on. But beneath the surface, a lot is going on.

You are both changing, growing, thinking. There is movement, in yourselves and in your life.

Just like the old watched pot that's slow to boil, I think that the more we watch for things or wait for things, the longer they seem to take.

But you are focusing on yourself, doing YOUR thing, discovering who you are. And one day you realized, "Hey, I like this version of me!"

So do we

Keep up the great work!

What I want to know is, what color is the paint?

It's one of those revolving displays, based on the current MLC mood... Black = depression, red = anger, fluorescent orange = manic behavior ...

You just never know what color will be next!

Hmm sounds pretty cool. I think I might get caught watching it dry too!

Sounds like more inventory for my MLC store. LOL!

Ah, T2, you are the man. Really.

You know, when new people come on here, I sometimes tell them that though they will wish this didnt happen in the way that it did, they will be forever changed.

I tell them if they do the work, they have an amazing opportunity throughout this. And that they will come out the other side stronger and wiser.

They never believe me while they are in their initial pain.

But you are a shining example of exactly what I mean.

I am not surprised you are getting positive reactions from the old+new T. We see who you are and so do they.

And TVS is right, often when it is really quiet, the most work is being done.

Besides piecing, this part is the hardest - limbo.

You just continue to be you, and let time and quiet do its work on your wife.

Oh, the paint drying exhibit is my favorite!

Do me a favor and distract museum security for a bit whilst I find an inconspicuous area to lightly touch to test for dryness.

If only somebody stocked a MLC strength hot air gun...

What I find interesting is that a lot of MY contributions to the M issues were derived from MY own personal issues, eg, abandonment issues, fear of rejection issues, etc. This "time" gift has given me opportunity to fix "me", and as a result, those effects should not surface (too much) going forward in the/a new R.

As Snodderly might say...I am comfortable in my own skin now (again). I like me. I don't need to "nice guy" control, hold people too tightly in fear of being abandoned, bad things can happen and I know all will work out, somehow.

I see so many sitches that are so much worse than mine, so many people with issues bigger, and harder than mine. I feel blessed to have this "me" again, and to have had this time. And yes, uRw, I didn't believe when I first strolled up here...now I do. I get it. I get a lot of things now, so much better.

Hmmm, let's see, I have a +3 5000Watt hair dryer for 80's big hair around here somewhere...I'm sure of it....

Let me check out back in the shed, FY...just a minute...lol!!

T2. One thing my W stated after the most recent D drop again was this. "The reason why I haven't D'd you as of right now is because I am scared on how you will treat me after the D"

It sticks in my little hamster head daily. I still don't fully understand what she meant. Like I wasn't going to be her pen pal post D.

Let her be afraid, TDF! My H said similar. He looked at breaks ups I had in my past and evaluated how I treated the ex during and after the breakup. It helped him to know I meant business when I finally agreed to D.

He said he saw changes I had made in myself, for myself, and yet I was assisting him in D proceedings and he knew that pretty soon he was going to be on the outside or my circle of affection. And he found that frightening.

I'm not suggesting anything for your sitch, just sharing.

Hang in there

My W said same, TDF, she was worried I would be bitter, mean, say things to the kids about her. That I would hate her forever more.

She knows me, and knows how I could be when I detest someone.

I think that, and the fear of losing her "buddy system", her mr fixit.

T^2, your W and my H must've memorized that page in the MLC script book! H said almost excactly the same things to me! But he added, "rH you can be a real b_____ if you wanna be and I'm not looking forward on being on the receiving end of it."

I had no fixit qualities to miss, lol!

hmmmm, this is one page my H seems to have overlooked in the MLC script book. I'm not complaining mind you.

Well let me tell you my W is no angel. If she treats me as she treats me now married I can only imagine the spew/crap I will get if she files. Yes I could be really mean in the past but I'm currently working the 12 steps to not be that person again. Just today I helped 3 people out. That is new for me. It felt good. Yes I think she fears when I have the kids there will be no contact etc..She wants the best of both worlds a D and me to be there for her post D. Just some mind reading of course

rH, W knows that I am incredibly hard to push too far, but when I do get there, its like waking up a dragon...lol

And I have to think she was a we bit worried at the time that with all the behaviors of the last 2-4 years, that BD#3 and wanting to co-habitate after D was just the poke that would wake the dragon...

I told her at the time that I would always be polite to her in front of the kids, but other than that it wasn't my problem to worry about, it was hers. Don't know if that is DB'ing, but that's what came out.

One of the things W mentioned early in all this, was that after D we could remain good friends. I made no comment regarding this back then, because frankly, I was shell shocked and spinning.

During our recent anniversary talk on the moonlit beach in Cancun, W explained that she was still sure she wanted out. (yes it was very romantic!) I let her know that if we do break up, that's the end of the buddy system for me. She didn't like that. And with no kids, it would be quite easy to pull off.

Oh, and I do have Mr Fixit qualities.

We have a lot more power in this than most of us realize. Be strong you all. No one wants a wussy spouse.

ha! My H mentioned the same thing to me early on, the 'we could remain good friends afterwards'. At which point I told him NO! I think he was quite surprised

He even had this nice vision of us living together while separated, in the same house, taking care of the children, having meals together, etc. I told him that is not going to happen! We are still in limbo now though, so I haven't had to deal with any of this as of yet.

T2, and all of the posters here, My h said something along that same line about remaining friends no matter what happened but then retracted when he thought about it. I'm not quick to anger in most situations but there are those few things that I have an immediate negative reaction to. One of those would be lying and the other being that when a relationship is over it's over completely for me. There's no looking back.

I think we are all married to fence sitters. They are weighing the pros and cons of whether it's worth losing our love, devotion and loyalty for the unknown. That may be working to our advantage with out spouses right now and explain why they are sitting on the fence. If they could be honest with themselves they would see that we're happily living our lives in spite of their behavior and indecision.

Pass the popcorn, I'm firmly planted on the curb while they teeter.

That's the silly thing. They still "love" us, but believe that they are not "in love" with us.

Thus the ILYBINILWY speech we all heard as our hearts were stabbed with a 20 or 30 year long knife.

Here's the thing: That "in love" feeling they are searching for (sometimes called Limerence) typically lasts 6 to 24 months.

Because I'm brave, (or stupid) I once told W "so you're going to find someone new, and it'll be real hot for a year or two, and then turn cool. What then?

Several months later she admitted: "I know the hotness of a new relationship won't last"

...and she's still here, sans OM.

Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung

Because I'm brave, (or stupid) I once told W "so you're going to find someone new, and it'll be real hot for a year or two, and then turn cool. What then?

I told H the same thing more than once and so did his IC.

I think that helped him with thinking through his issues and trying to find a solution for his pain that didn't include an OW.

Same here.

Hey T2,
Hope you are doing well. You might want to think about starting a new thread. I'm poster # 122.

T, FY, rH, CP, TDF, NLT at first I was incredulous that your spouses would think you'd be willing to remain the very best of friends and maybe even still live together after D (although why I thought that ANY idea put forward by a MLCer could ever be too far fetched is beyond me).�

But isn't this sort of the life our spouses who are carrying on EAs and PAs are actually living? And the Standers continue to STFU and DB until the MLCer wakes up, or the Stander snaps.

I figured half(?) of the posts in this thread were really Tour De France's thread, so T2 gets a pass.

(sorry "TDF", I'm a bike guy so every time I see TDF that's what I think of)

RL, they know the old us would always do anything for them. Since we haven't bombed them, and even have improved ourselves, they figure we will continue to meet their needs forevermore.

It seems to me we must allow them to see what we can offer them in a new M, while also making them aware of what they may be giving up on.

Oh, and you'll love this one: When leaving on one of her solo vacations, W asked me if I would search and find her a nice place to move into! She was only half joking.

Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung

RL, they know the old us would always do anything for them. Since we haven't bombed them, and even have improved ourselves, they figure we will continue to meet their needs forevermore.

How true is this!!

It seems often the only way they wake up is when they realize that we are not available anymore.

Originally Posted By: chasingpavements

Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung

RL, they know the old us would always do anything for them. Since we haven't bombed them, and even have improved ourselves, they figure we will continue to meet their needs forevermore.

How true is this!!

It seems often the only way they wake up is when they realize that we are not available anymore.

This is pretty much what I'm going through right now, so it caught my attention.

It's so tough to figure out the fine line between showing them what a new, improved M could be and letting them see what life is/would be on their own.

I haven't figured it out yet.

New thread is here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2376933&#Post2376933