Had a big aha moment last night.
From my early days in ALanon one saying that always stuck in my head was, keep your side of the street clean. When I first heard it I thought it was dumb and not at all insightful. But it really stuck with me.
It meant all I had to do was take care of me. I needed to go to my therapy, my alanon meetings and do my postings on these boards. I didnt need to worry about what he was doing. This was not easy and for months I was just faking it but some how little by little I really started focusing on myself and my own journey.
Fast forward to last night when STBX comes over to pick up the girls. I felt like I was almost saintly. I packed up a great bag of clothes for the girls with their favorite outfits, I was truly happy when he came over so the girls could show him their new bunk beds. When my two year old was screaming I dont want to go to Daddy's house I was able to be the one to talk to her and make it okay to go. All of my actions were somehow sincere
Then again right before they are about to leave D2 starts again crying I DONT WANT TO GO TO DADDYS HOUSE. My Stbx says " Oh come on D2, your mommy is going to think I torture you over there"
That response was insane to me. It shows me that he is so blind and clueless that he doesnt even see what he is doing to the kids. Kids dont want to schlep back and forth between two homes, she is not crying because you torture her, she is crying because she wants her mommy & wants one home.
The other part of this interaction last night was he gave me an update on our SIL health. (His Brothers Wife) She was diagnosed with lymphoma 2 years ago and had not been responding to chemo/radiation, etc.
Currently she is receiving a radical treatment at Johns Hopkins and has been in ICU for three weeks, which is to be expected, but still.
What clicked as insane to me was, here he is a guy who considers himself close to his family and he has made himself completely unavailable to them while they are going through this crazy battle with cancer. Did I mention my SIL has 3 young children.
At christmas time my H went home for barely 2 days with my girls and his girlfriend. Then with the rest of his time off took a vacation with his girlfriend and then returned to his 80/wk work week. He didnt make himself at all available to spend time with his parents or his brother, SIL & nieces and nephews. That is called running away.
What kind of came to me in a flash last night after witness and hearing all these odd things from him, is how he has always been odd but I choose not to see it or to make an excuse for him.
He so wanted to present himself as the perfect man, he is handsome, in shape and has a good income and I so wanted him to be the perfect man that I ignored most of his strange behavior.
He was never able to make connections with new people. He never connected to any of my friends or family in a very real way. I thought it was my friends that he didnt like. He was so distant even from me. But I really thought I could live with someone that is distant because he is such a "good guy". He always referred to me and our daughters as his three girls. (Even days before bomb).
I realize now that for him these were only words and their was no substance behind that. I realize how much I wanted and needed him to appear perfect and I played into his charade, a charade he doesnt even realize his is playing.
With all my recovery and my comfort in myself I cant imagine being back with him. being back with a man that isnt comfortable in his own skin.
I will pray for him but I deserve better.
... but damn it my kids deserve a mother & a father
(((BK)))
Your description of your H reminds me so much of our family dynamic too. I see patterns here with so many of these sitchs. It's so much like a script. Take out one H and insert another. Same story, different H.
That is correct. Take care of you and your girls. You DO deserve better and so do your kids. But you only have control of so much.
Take care of yourself!
Yes, I see a pattern too. They were emotionally stunted as children and they do not know how to show the "real selves" to anyone. Yes, they do provide the lip service about loving us and being their better halves, but it's generally "surface love", not the deep love that people share. It's unfortunate that they were emotionally stunted because they have never really known how to express themselves and what they could have enjoyed being in a far deeper relationship. Hopefully during mlc they will peel enough of their selves away to heal and grow up and become mature individuals who can then better share of themselves and not be afraid of exposing themselves to others. BTW, my xh was very much like your h too in not sharing a very deep emotional bond.
I'm sorry about your sil. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers. It's not easy on anyone who is fighting cancer. I do hope that they can find some meds that will help her.
You are doing great and I'm so glad you are showing him a calm, peaceful and positive person. I think you did beautifully when he came to get the children. It will give him something to think about.
Please take care of yourself.
Hugs and then more hugs and then even more.
Sometimes it blows me away. My H actually had the audacity to blame his 10-yr-old daughter for missing her birthday. He blew her off because it was on a Friday. He called a 4 p.m. on the day of her party and asked if he could come over. She said NO. He blamed her and made it a joke over Christmas. NO CLUE. Whatever supports the addiction, the disease, the insanity. BUT, the even crazier part is how good they are, despite all this insane behavior, at convincing themselves and others how WE are the crazy ones. Like a 10-yr-old should ever be held responsible for that!
It's very sad.
I'm glad you had the epiphany. I know it's validating and painful at the same time.
You've been a great reminder to me to include the program in this MLC journey. Thank you.
And, how you handled it, didn't go unnoticed. In a moment of clarity, he will see that. He may never reveal it, but he took notice on some level. I think that's the saddest part. They Know. They do know, deep down, how sick they are. But, they give into it. My H has virtually recited things to me that I said back in May, June, August. They remember. They block it out as much as they can, but if they have even a mustard seed's worth of a conscience, they do get it deep down.
Trust the process.
He's where he is supposed to be right now and, God is protecting you from his disease--maybe to spare your children more hurt? Imagine if he DID live with you. I was reminded of the conflict this week. I can see how HP has kept his illness away from us this last year--at least on a day-to-day basis. I stink at dealing with an active addict in the home. I'm terrible at it and my kids always paid the price for that. Distance keeps me from getting too gullible and too vulnerable and helps me keep the focus where it needs to be.
You're doing great. Working the program the way you do, ALWAYS pays off.
Much Love,
Heather
B, as you continue on this journey, you will begin to see your husband and your marriage with less and less rose colored glasses.
While every MLC is different in some ways, very often the MLCers have very similar childhood issues and personality traits.
My xh was unable to really and truly open up to anyone about anything of substance. I loved him, so I accepted it, but, it was very difficult to live with someone who was so closed off.
Little by little you will begin to see that the man you thought was wonderful, had flaws like everyone else.
You are right where you should be. Keep going.
I was surprised when I learned about childhood issues driving the MLC. It seems this fact is not commonly acknowledged. Yes, it does seem they are NOT comfortable in their own skin, I know my wife isn't, and never truly was.
It makes perfect sense that we can't find the answers for them, they must do it on their own.
My stbx has definite childhood issues and father issues. Stbx is so repressed and his issues are so buried behind his nice guy demeanor.
I am nuts.
I truly believe in heart that my husband will come home to us.
I know I am setting myself up for disappointment but I really believe he will come home one day
Then I am as nuts as you. I too think at some point W will snap out of it...someday but likely will be too late. She too has various childhood and teenage issues. A lot of repressed anger for her parents and old BF. she too buries behind this nice girl persona but it comes out and boy does it. She does not even realize what she says sometimes and it maps right too it. MC #'s 1 and 2 both mapped this for her and had her map it out right before my eyes. It was wild and scary at the same time. She could not deal with it and retreated into shutting down.
Hi, There is nothing wrong with hoping he will come home, you said yourself that your little ones want and deserve one home and two parents. That is a normal feeling. The issue is if he does come home, what will that look like? What would you accept and what is really best for you and your kids. If you haven't spoken to a DB coach, I suggest you do, as they are wonderful in helping you get clarity on what your goal is and how to accomplish it. I congratulate you on all you have done for yourself(including Alanon).Take good care.
Thks Floyd and KarenR. Thks for not thinking I am complete nut job.
I have spoken to DB coaches & I have spoken with you, much earlier on and they were amazing. They got me through the darkest of days. Right now I think talking to a coach would really be living in a fantasy since my STBX has not made any moves to R.
If he makes any move to come home I will definitely schedule several coaches sessions. I see how sane I am now after a year and a half of intense treatment through my shrink, alanon and these boards. A relationship with ex would not be possible unless he chooses to get some form of treatment.
You are in a much better frame of mind, BK. I remember how traumatized you and all of us were around each of our respective BD's. Most of us us have really come a long way. But we also know the journey isn't over, right? I guess it never really ends, does it!
He so wanted to present himself as the perfect man, he is handsome, in shape and has a good income and I so wanted him to be the perfect man that I ignored most of his strange behavior.
He was never able to make connections with new people. He never connected to any of my friends or family in a very real way. I thought it was my friends that he didnt like. He was so distant even from me. But I really thought I could live with someone that is distant because he is such a "good guy".
Bklyn, I couldn't have described my own H better. I told one of my sisters a couple of years ago, "how can you live with someone for 15 years and feel like you don't even know who they are?"
I'm hoping my H will complete his MLC journey and be free of his demons that haunt him.
I read how well you did with exchanging the children and I think you did great! You have a lot of fortitude and courage.
Keep up the good work!
rH
thks 2 and rh. I am proud of myself. I have come a long long way but its still so freakin hard. I remember I need to do what works and what works is Alanon meetings, medication, therapy and writing here. It taken a lot of time and money for me come closer to peace.
Here is the email I got from H this morning. Thoughts would be great.
Hey. I know this is a sucky situation, and i wouldn't try to coat it any other way, but i feel like we are close on the parenting agreement. I'm wondering how you feel about it and also wondering how we can help finish this whole thing. I am not angry. And i am not pointing a finger in any direction. I do feel like we are two smart people (well, i'm a dim witted ape and you can't spell, so maybe we are two capable people) and we can figure this thing out. I ask for a couple reasons - the simplest but by no means the most important, financially, my L has received about the same it's gonna cost for D4s freshman year of college. Also, i ask because i think it well help us as parents, i really do. If we can finish this, i think it will help us deal with each other and also have better plans for the girls. I also ask, because personally I am still living in a place i thought i'd be bolting out of at the end of my one year lease - so everything is temporary, and i haven't invested time, effort and energy into making this a real home for D4 and D2. Not that it's lacking any necessity, but it's not "home", if that makes any sense. Feels like i'm on location. And I'd like to make a "home" for the girls where i live too.
Practically speaking, i worry because you are starting a job soon (congratulations on that), but it seems like when we are working nothing gets done, and i start my next job before you wrap. The process we have been in for the last 18 months is amazingly slow. I don't know how it normally happens, but a letter or draft, then between 2 and 6 weeks for a response that only leads to more letters seems a little nuts to me. Again, i am not pointing a finger at anyone, it could very well be my attorney or me, or maybe it's just the path that we went down in the beginning and we can't recover from it, any which way, i think it would be good for all involved to figure some way out of this. I thought in december we made some big headway and when my job wrapped i thought we were gonna tie things up, but that hasn't happened. is there any thing that we could adjust in the way we are operating to help?
ok. getting to the nuts and bolts a bit. It seems like the only thing in the parenting agreement that we aren't on the same page with is the (and i am probably using the wrong term) moving radius. I don't want to limit where you and the girls live. i just want us to share in the pickups and drop offs if we live far apart (like more than 15/20 miles). I just think it would be really hard on a shooting weekend to drive to say new jersey (if you wanted to live near your cousins or something) twice, or even more, getting a sitter to drive there on a friday, bring them back to the city and stay till dawn. maybe a certain distance triggers you dropping them off, and/or if i'm shooting a saturday morning pickup if we live far from each other. i don't know B(nick name), but i think us talking about this last issue (and please correct me if there is more than this one thing) will be a lot more productive than your dad and dan sending re-written drafts to each other.
If this is not comfortable for you, i'm open to any ideas. Do you want to meet with me and talk?
I am totally off the reservation with this email. i don't want you to think this is a play here."""
I wrote back
""Thanks for the email. I will think about it.
Honestly the whole thing still hurts so bad I don't want to be a puddle"""
Also my father/my lawyer told me that my husbands law firm was in the law newspaper today for shady unethical behavior which they deny. My father has already told me his law firm is terrible and is ripping him off. I emailed H and let him know about the article.
Sorry bklyn. Your H sounds like my W when it comes to discussing the sitch. They are oblivious to how brutal this all is. This is serious, hurtful stuff, and they approach it with no more emotion than if we are discussing who's picking up a gallon of milk on the way home.
Keep fighting!
Here is the email I get from him this morning. What???
well if you don't want to meet with me, could we do another sit down with your dad and dan before your job starts? i really think we can figure out the last steps better that way. and after you start work and then me, it will be harder to get us all together. dan should be done with a financial draft beginning of next week. i finally tracked down my last w2.
two years ago you asked me to see a therapist. and i did.
you asked me to go to couples counseling. and i did.
you asked me to go to AA/alanon meetings. and i did.
i'm asking you, can we please get a handle on this? going through this letter writing process is crazy expensive. and we don't have a complicated situation. i'm open to any ideas you may have of moving forward and not have this take another year and half.
i'm not saying this in any vindictive way - we are done vanessa. please don't be holding out hopes of that not being the case.
i only say the above because i don't want to send you mixed messages. it is not meant to be harmful. we do now and will continue to communicate a lot and i don't want it to be terse and curt out of fear of making a joke (cuz i'm so damn funny- .333 batting average). i want the girls to see us getting along (and actually get along) and not a mom vs dad life for them. i'm sure you hate me, and if not, at least resent me. and i understand that. we need to put this past us and get on living our lives. it is the only healthy thing to do. i know it hurts. it [censored] [censored]. i don't want it to suck for 20 years. please let me know what you think.
---
To me this seems like a crazy reactive response to my email saying I will think about it.
He's trying to not suffer the consequences of his actions. Primarily, that you won't like him or be his friend. He's attempting to charm you and, at the same time, rationalize why you two should get along.
This is my response
----
I do not wish that you and I were a couple. What happened hurt a lot and still hurts (especially when my kids want their Daddy) but I see now that I deserve more in a relationship. I deserve to be with someone who is being honest with me and with himself.
I have been very gracious through out this whole thing and have never indicated to the girls that its mom vs. dad. I constantly tell them how much you love them and that they have the best dad.
I would prefer if you and I met one on one then to schedule another meeting with Dan & my father.
I know my father is sending Dan the hopefully final parenting agreement today
----
thanks Mtn Man. He is wacko. I have been practically saintly towards him since Sept 2011. He couldnt ask for more from a woman he walked away from.
I love what you said about milk, he acts like he forgot to bring home milk meanwhile he is leaving a wife and 2 young girls
Telling me he went to therapy and AA etc is hysterical to me since he went with both hands over his ears. He went to 3 cousneling sessions with his own therapist and after 3 he claims the therapist told him he was okay and didn't need therapy. I find this very hard to believe. (I am holding back my laughter)
Throwing in the therapy and AA stuff is helping him with guilt. He really wants to believe, and hopes you do to, that he tried.
(((BK)))
I got the same talk from H that we need to get along for the sake of the kids and learn to work together blah blah. It's all lip service to make them feel better because you know what? When I help out he tells me I don't need help. When I don't help him out he gets angry that I am not helping. It's all about them and what makes them feel good.
I think your response was fine. Don't expect anything out of it though. Just my 2 cents. Usually it's in one ear and out the other.
Hang in there!!
WH
I know mtn man he is really trying to believe he tried. Maybe his girlfriend buys it but I don't.
Thks rh. You are so right it lip service. Made me think about how when I packed food for them on a road trip he told me they didn't eat it or need it. He wants me to be his co parent on his terms only
(((BK)))
I got the same talk from H that we need to get along for the sake of the kids and learn to work together blah blah. It's all lip service to make them feel better because you know what?
Same here. W gave that talk, and included the 'There's no reason we can't do shared parenting, etc...' for just that reason; to make herself feel better.
But, in the long run, it didn't work. Personally, I think it's like putting a band-aid over a bullet wound. It's a temporary fix and will not help them in the long run - it sure didn't help my W.
I think your response was fine as well.
Thanks guys.
The shared parenting thing is insane especially since at least in my case my H has no clue as to which days the kids have after school activities, sports, etc. I have always told him those things but I think its hard for him to keep it straight since he is removed for the day to day of it.
Its a shame very early on the MC that we saw and my H boss & mentor played into this co-parenting is great theory and my H bought it hook, line and sinker. He believes our D wont be like the divorces he remember from growing up because we will be co-parents and our kids will be happy because each of us are happy and self fulfilled individuals.
I wrote about the MC (it was a couple a man & woman) that we saw immediately after the bomb on these boards. They basically told me that I needed to accept that my H was living and there was nothing I could do to change that and my reaction was too emotional.
Comments on these boards reminded me that even if I had gone to more pro-M MC my H still would have left, I needed to be reminded of that. But I do still get angry when I think about those first MC and I feel a little stuck around those feelings. I really dont think I was over reacting when H first dropped bomb.
What is a normal reaction when you H out of nowhere says he is leaving you and your 2 children, 14 months and 2 1/2 at the time? People say I ignored warnings, but honestly I am not a mind reader, we were bidding on a house, I thought he was happy.
I wish those MC early on had recognized that my very emotional devestated reaction was in a normal range of emotions when the man you love tells you he is leaving.
I went to a work conference this weekend (my H & OW & I are all in the same industry so everyone at the meeting knows everyone). I was shocked by how many people still asked me about H as if we were still together. Its like people havent really gossiped about my switch because its almost too shocking. 90% of the people at the conference know me and H but very few know her because she is new in the industry (26), of course the first question woman ask me is, is H with another woman, I just say yes and tell them her name when they ask who.
In a couple of cases the woman I tell want get so angry at my H that I end of being in the position to go crazy with them or to defend my H and I don't feel comfortable doing either. I usually change the topic and say we need to have a drink one of these days and I will tell you the whole story.
My H and I are meeting Thursday, I guess to go over some stuff & agree on things so he wont have to pay his lawyer as much. I am not agreeing to anything without my L/father telling me what my rights are.
It makes me so sad to have this meeting. So sad.
I feel so lonely sometimes, raising my girls alone. It feels so unnatural not to share everyone of their little triumphs with someone.
I have so much to be grateful for I know. I just dont know why he cant see what he is flushing away.
(((BK)))
Your story makes me want to strangle those counselors. What a joke! Too emotional. Please! That infuriates me because I was told the same thing by my first counselor.
My H is off the rails too. One day this will be behind us. I hope! ; )
Keep hanging on.
WH
Bklyn,
This is unbelievably sad. I'm so sorry he is putting you through this now.
I think that he's going to keep this up until he has the legal business done. It's too easy to blame us for stopping them from getting what they want.
We are the obvious targets.
Once the legal stuff is behind them, they will still blame us for their sad sitch, but it will get harder and harder for them to explain why they are not happy as time goes on.
We have to be in this for the REAL LONG haul (if we want) with guys like this.
They have blamed us for every unhappiness in their lives for so long... we are just fish in a barrel until there is nothing more they can pin on us (I love mixing metaphors!).
Big hugs Bklyn.
bklyn,
i just read thru your posts...your h sounds like mine on so many levels....especially the fact is unattached to family and friends.. that describes mine to a t
i think we may have a lot in common
you mention shootings and wraps - do you both work in tv or film?
i wish i knew how to attach my threads here...i am computer challanged
the way your h writes, so matter of factly, sounds like mine as well...i have been here many years now
while my h addictions grow and grow (seemingly, at least) he has no idea what this is doing to our son
he thinks everything is fine, because he has a big problem seeing peoples emotions...that has always been the case - which might be part of his ADD, or the effects of too much pot - i don't know - he has been smoking since his early 20's - he is now 47
anyway, i want to read back thru your sitch and hopefully i can be helpful
at the very least, i will lend an ear and send a warm internet hug to you
be well
Keep fighting Bklyn!
I'm learning how hard it is to enjoy time with my S's without my W. it's not that you don't have fun, it's more than you don't have an adult to share it with. You miss the playfulness and inside jokes. The banter back and forth about whose side of the family they get 'that' from.
Yours are at an age where they're changing so much, and showing their personalities. You should be sharing that with your H. Your feelings that its unnatural are valid. It would be easier if it were only us and our spouses who are missing out, but our kids are too. That hurts the most.
(((Bklyn))) I know how you feel!!
It's so nice to know you guys are reading along.
Grr, you are right about our occupation. I try elimate that vocabulary from my posts but I sometimes forget. My fear is that once people know my field someone will know my identity. I guess it's far fetched but I reveal so much of my deep feelings here I don't want work people to find me.
H is hold now to work Thursday the day of our impending meeting. He is nuts.
I will continue to pray, go to meetings and post here. Love you all
yeah, we do have alot in common....same here (occu- for h and i). makes any marriage tougher........he is on the road alot and i have long studio hours......much of our marriage has been two ships passing in the night
Just a thought, re the MLCers cool attitudes ... they were aware of wanting to leave (since they were having affairs, etc.) whereas we, the LBSers learn about it on BD, and it's very new for us. We will probably take as long to get over it all (maybe longer), as they had having the affairs. They are detached (even from their kids) because they've had a lot of time to justify their actions. So, on BD, they are ready to leave, while we are left wondering WTF is going on here?
Does this make sense?
BeingMe, I totally get what you are saying. They plotted to leave prior to the bomb. I also think that my H and many are not living in reality - my H really acts this is not a big deal for the children although all evidence is contrary to that. They have less to mourn in fantasy land.
Grr we do have a lot in common. The hours really did us in. My H career has been taking off at the same time as us having 2 kids back to back. It was too much. He didnt turn down work and I think took off 2 days each time a kid was born.
With our 2nd D birth, I told him to come home early so he came at 7P, she was born at the hospital at 8:17P.
The self care aspect of this program has really helped me. I know when I found these boards everyone is like GAL, GAL, GAL!!! But for me my schedule is busy enough I really needed to find more ways to go easy on myself
My W has lately been saying they (children) need to learn life isn't perfect. How could I miss the fact that this will be so nice for them to learn? I just want to ask her how learning this lesson in her childhood is working out. It blows my mind!
bklyn, my h acts if it is normal for our s to be pulled between 2 homes....he keeps saying "he is fine" when the truth is he is not
he is in counseling, very distracted, and has new "twitches" every few months
my h insists that he, himself was fine being a product of a broken home (many as his parents were married multiple times) at the same time he has a pot addiction, and can't seem to get too close to many people
it's a nightmare for these children
that would be reason enough to work through whatever for me
i, like you, have a crazy schedule, so sometimes, GAL, is very difficult.......but i do try to take time once in awhile...make sure you do as well
thanks Mtnman and grr sometimes its hard to know if I am the one that is crazy or not. I feel like I get so many mixed messages out there in the world like just cooperate and do co parenting and the kids will be fine. This is not okay to do to the kids.
This morning I had a meeting with STBX. My father/lawyer thinks I am a fool. That I am meeting with my abuser and settling for less.
H had two points of contention in the parenting agreement. 1. Is that if either of our kids needs to go to private school that it is a joint decision as its currently worded I can decide if the kids need to go to private school if a expert tells me the kids need help for some reason. (This is essentially a non-issue because both my kids appear fine and I am not from a private school background nor is my STBX)
I agreed that it can be a joint decision. My father told me that by agreeing to this I was accepting less then I was entitled to. That the point of the contract is to have an agreement not to agree to let STBX decide at some point in the future. If a professional recommends private school it should not be then be up to my ex to decide.
I see my Dads point but I also dont understand why we are debating a non issue.
My father thinks I am letting my abuser abuse me further.
It came up in that I said needed to protect myself as much as the law allows because I dont trust him. He looked surprised as to why I dont trust him because he is such a good guy (He seriously believes that he is a great guy and most people treat him as such - see No Mr. Nice Guy Syndrome) I said I dont trust him because - "I love you, I love you, I love you, I am leaving you". that is what he did.
He said that I treated him like crap for years saying I didnt want him to hug me all the time and not say I love you all the time. But then he said lets not get into it.
My father says this is BS. You dont leave someone and your 2 young kids because they were annoyed by your over affection. You get professional help. My father sees this again as STBX blaming me the victim.
As I sit here writing this I am remembering that it was annoying his constant need for me to express my love for him and validate his feelings. I see now that our communciation skills were so dysfunctional that neither of us knew how to have our own love tanks filled. But that is/was a very fixable problem but we didnt know where to go for help or that we needed help.
STBX discussed my fathers comments in a letter to his lawyer that STBX not allow his girlfriend to give my kids jewelry until the d if final, since she gave them necklaces for Christmas. STBX defended his girlfriend saying that she didnt give the girls jewelry to rub it in my face it was only for nice purposes but he understood how it could be upsetting. I just listened.
Then he talked about getting the kids to eat better food. I told him my tips. (I hate this honky doory co-parenting BS) My father says he is an a$$hole, who cares if they eat their carrots - look at what he is doing to their emotional wellbeing.
I did pretty good throughout the meeting didnt lose my composure.
I feel a mess right now, like my Dad is saying one thing, the boards another and alanon yet another.
I love(d) my H with all my heart and soul and I love my children. I know I misbehaved but have I not repented? Have I not gotten into my own recovery. How could he not know my love for him. How could he choose to be with this OW rather then fight for his children to have a whole family.
I am going to take care of myself today. Noon Alanon meeting. Called shrink becuase I ran out of meds. Wrote out this post, which was a lot of typing for me.
Sorry BK I agree with your dad. Of course he is being protective of you since your are his child, but I agree in that it is BS that he wants a divorce because you didn't hug him enough. You were blindsided. So was I. He never gave you the opportunity to change or to even fix it. Maybe you weren't perfect but he wasn't either.
I'm not buying it. Sorry if it doesn't sound DB, but your H made choices and now he needs to be held accountable.
I am on your side!!!!
Wah
B,
What your h has said is nothing but a bunch of bs and gaslighting. Your father wants only the best for his daughter and as a lawyer, he is looking out for your best interests.
May I make a suggestion to you? Take some time for yourself and really think about your situation and what you want to do. We all have opinions as to what you should or shouldn't do, but only you can weed through our opinions and truly decide what is right for you.
You are a good person and do not deserve the emotional and mental abuse that he continues to throw at you. He needs to face the consequences of his actions and so what if a divorce isn't what he wanted...he created this mess, not you.
Do what is right for YOU and your children.
Snod and wh your posts mean so much right now. Thank you!
I am much more clear headed now. Went to a meeting and got your posts.
I still don't have any answers but I feel like a person again and not a raging lunatic.
Thank you!!
Dear B-mom,
Have been reading along, feeling many emotions for you. I can only imagine how you feel.
In no way did you cause this. So you weren't perfect, none of us are, including your H. That's part of life, part of being married, and part of being human.
I'm sure in looking back, there are things you could have done to delay - not avoid- the crisis. In fact, there are probably things that you did that did postpone in. But nothing we can do or say is going to fix them. Nothing.
Your H is playing on your emotions and trying to blame you. It is NOT your fault.
You have consistently been there for your family, doing the hard work to harbor the storm. All your H has done is run.
I will be thinking of you today, hoping you find some peace soon. You deserve so much happiness. You really do.
Please take care of yourself and know that so many people care about you and your girls. Thinking of you
Thks tks what A beautiful post I can't believe it's written for me. I love it. I am so lucky to have found you guys
I ditto everyone else's posts about your situation. Instead of fighting for his family, he ran, he stepped outwards to another woman. He wants what he wants, the h*ll with his family. He is very selfish. When WAS's leave the marriage, then it's all on them, 100%, as far as I'm concerned. Marriages aren't perfect, it's hard work, it's a lot of communicating (talking and listening) and give and take. The LBS is not a mindreader, to just know through some ESP that someone is unhappy, especially if they're not acting that way. For instance, my H is very passive-aggressive ... he says nothing, and then just does what he wants behind my back.
I agree, there was nothing you, on your own, could've done to keep your family whole. It takes two committed adults to make a marriage work. And he is making a lot of excuses as to why it didn't. You can assume whatever is coming out of his mouth is either untrue, or a manipulation of the truth to make him look like the victim. And it's so easy to re-write history. I'm sure OW only knows that skewed history.
Sometimes, we LBSers (I include myself) have to just realize that the men we thought our H's were, was just a figment of our imaginations. They play at being adults, good guys, caring fathers, but when the chips hit the fan (and OW comes into the picture), they have all kinds of excuses dug up from some small thing you may or may not have done, in some distant past, why they are leaving you and by extension their children. They forget those vows very quickly. OW will find that she will also go through this, unless your H doesn't get help. I think, IMHO, your dad is right ... don't give on anything, because to your H, that is a crack, a weakness he can exploit. And, he will pound on that weakness until you give on another thing, then another, and so on. He must face the consequences of the choice he's made. Let your lawyer/dad do his job, and you stay out of it. Don't have anymore meetings. Your H isn't interested in smoothing things out unless it's to his benefit.
Be the best mom you can be. Be the woman (and I suspect you already are) that he will kick himself for leaving. I know it's hard when you love someone, but see this as tough love for him. He won't learn anything unless you are tough. BTW, I'm only coming to these conclusions after 7 years of being Miss Nice to my H. I've wasted a lot of time, while he was playing me like I was a puppet in his hands, spinning me around until I didn't know which way was up or down. I've cut the string now. I wish I had a dad like you have. Mine passed away a long time ago. Use that resource to the fullest ... I'm sure your dad would love to know that he's protecting his daughter, and she's allowing him the honor of doing that.
B- mom... Believe it girl. Believe it
Very good post Being. You have great insight.
Something you said really made me think - it was about our H's being a figment of our imagination.
I have thought about this a lot along the way. Was he real? Were we real?
My answer is a resounding yes.
I think a mistake I made was putting my H up on a pedestal. Maybe I expected too much from him. Maybe we expected too much from each other.
He may not have been perfect, but he was pretty darn good.
B- mom, right now your H is not the man you remember. Only you know deep in your heart what was real between you two. And even if he was that good guy at one time, that doesn't mean you have to take all the hurtful sh!t he is dishing out now.
He may be in his self-induced fantasy world right now, but to borrow a thought from Amy C - reality always eventually comes knocking.
Stay strong. Let us know how you are doing
B, I dont think that your dad, the forum and al-anon are saying such different things. I think in at least one way, we are all saying the same thing. Take care of you.
I want to say something to you. There is no way you could have stopped this from happening. I'm sorry but you dont have that kind of power. This is something that he was meant to go through.
Could you have done things differently in your marriage? Of course, we all could have. But I believe we do the best we can with the knowledge and tools we have at the time. Had you known better, you would have done better. Hindsight is 20/20.
The main thing to remember is that you didnt do or not do anything in your marriage with the intent to hurt him or it. That is very important. So, B, forgive yourself. And really believe that this is not your fault. It just isnt.
I know that your instinct is to try not to rock the boat too much legally with your h. I think you might feel that you dont want to get him too angry. I get that.
Here's the thing. Your h is in crisis. And as he is in one, it is your responsibility to look after yourself and your children. That comes first.
I wish that I did things differently in that regard. It cost me so very much.
I know you are worried about your children. Is this going to be hard on them? Absolutely. But, they will get through it. You know how? You. If you are ok, then they will be, too. They are looking to you. You are their touchstone. And you want to show them someone with strength and courage.
You can do this, B. You can.
very very wise words from urworthy........i need to read this again
i constantly beat myself up and go over in my head what i could have done differently
could i have more clearly read the warning signs
could i have been done more for him
i know i did a lot wrong
and so did he
but marriage, to me is for better or worse
sticking with someone throughout (unless of course there is abuse of any kind)
sometimes i'm not sure if "mid life crisis" is a real thing
or is it a label we apply to something to be able to better deal with it
i don't know
i hope, bklyn, you are sleeping well tonight
and urworthy, thanks for those words
Hi - what beingme was saying was all true - it is worth remembering that people in MLC behave like narcissists. I am not sure whether they are essentially narcissistic or whether it is a response to the stress they are under. The therapist I saw thinks they are borderline . . .
As to whether they are a figment of our imagination - hmmm actually I don't think they are, but I am not sure they were always what they were appearing or being to us. These people are, I now realised, very masked.
I think the narcissism is why they walk away so easily - some say they already left the marriage a long time before. Not so sure about that. They were unhappy and blamed us and thus found is 'easy' to leave, but honestly, I think my sh was married to me until he wasn't. I can pinpoint a three month period in which his whole personality changed and I noticed it immediately
I cant believe all the wonderful posts. I am in the mist of getting kids off to school.
But your posts have really put a smile on my face for the day and I will touch base more later
Hi Beatrice
That pattern you describe about the three month period where his personality changed applies to my H as well. It was like he became another person. Someone I didn't know and sure as heck didn't like. My sixth sense was going off like gangbusters and I didn't know what to do about it.
I see lots of narcassistic behavior with my H as well. Now whether he is truly narcasstic or if it's crisis remains to be seen
Good stuff on these boards!
I can go back to the day that I first thought W was not acting like herself. I almost mentioned it to a buddy of mine when I saw him the next day. Doing something completely opposite her normal personality.
Same here, I saw all this building of her issues, then bam! Like a light switch was flipped, then BD one month later.
I imagine the pressure builds and builds, then their minds just switch into a different self-protection mode to avoid (oh yes, lots of avoidance) self-destruct/meltdown...well, it's a working theory anyway.
T^2
You guys made my day with all your help and support. Reminding me that I did not cause this is something I cant hear enough.
My H is also so high functioning that its easy to forget he has issues. Also all his accusations do contain some truths. I just need to keep repeating I didnt cause it, I cant control it and I cant cure it.
I guess what confuses me is part of the DB program is to make the WAS feel safe enough to come home and let them know you are their friend and they can confide in you. For me that feels inconsistant with standing my ground. I dont want to be the trouble maker so to speak. Its hard to fight with the person I so desperately want to love me... I guess I just need to get over that desperation, I am sure he can smell it a mile away.
Most days I am okay with my girls having parents that are divorced, I know that they will be okay because I will show them how but some days the thought of them coming from a broken home is overwhelming. Like when D4 friend says "Why does D4 have 2 houses" - ugh! i hate that.
thank you all. Big hugs right back to you guys
B, I dont really think that db is necessarily saying to be their friend and someone they can confide in.
Just my opinion. I think by showing them someone who has made the changes permanent, someone strong, loving and compassionate is the way to make the passage home safe.
But in no way should you not do what you need to do legally to protect yourself and your kids. Because if your h comes out of this, he will see that you did what you had to to protect your family.
Here's the thing. If some of the things he mentioned to you have some truth to them and you agree they need changing, those are the changes you need to make. For you.
You need to live your life as if he was not coming back. That doesnt mean to be mean spirited or angry or resentful . It means becoming the person you want to be. And that should include strength, dignity and conviction.
Strive to be that person everyday because if he comes out of this, that's who he needs to see. That is someone who will make it safe.
Thks urworthy. Absolutely I need to show that my changes are for real and that I am loving and compassionate. Here's what confuses me he wants to act like this is a honor doory sitch. He comes over today to pick up kids since I am going to a baby shower and he wants to chat about my friend who is having a baby.
During our sit down talk he suggested I watch sone funny jon Stewart clip, he sends emails trying to make us pals and joking that full moon must be why our daughters were acting crazy.
My father says by playing in to these nicities I am telling him his behavior is okay and acceptable vs being more aloft and not engaged in his friendly chat.
I guess it is the old dance when I pull back he leans in.
It took me months to be calm around him. And then months of faking my calm. Now I am totally calm but really this business of being friends when he is destroying our family is lying and putting on an act.
This man is my cancer. I don't want to chit chat and be friendly neighbors. I don't care of this pushes him away.
He is a jerk who left his children as well
Sorry for the slew of typos.
Honky dory
Bklyn,
It's hard to type on these smart phones. I look at my posts and have whole words missing.
It's no fun pretending or playing games. One of the pillars of a good relationship is honesty, but if we were in this case it would torpedo our prospect of saving our marriages.
The way you're handling this says a lot about you and the love you have for your daughters. It has not and will not go unnoticed.
I've had my two all week (thankfully), as W couldn't make any overnight stays work. Today I've done breakfast, lunch, bball sign ups, took youngest to a friends, oldest has a friend over, three loads of laundry and going to a ball game later. W comes up at lunch to hang out, showers, gets ready and leaves to catch dinner and a movie with a friend. My response, "have a good time sweetheart!" Should I feel guilty for not offering to pay? Don't answer that.
Teenagers are idiots!! Haha.
B, I can see you struggling with this.
Ive been around here a long time, so this is just my opinion. Others may disagree and that's ok.
When I was in the midst of it all, and h was doing some horrific things, I certainly didnt want to tbe his friend.
Why would I want to be friends with soomeone who could do such things?
So, a couple of things helped me. I realized that I truly believe he was in crisis. This was not the man that I knew for so very many years.
Now, that didnt give him a free pass on his actions. But, if I really loved him unconditionally, then, aI loved him enough to let him go.
That was when I was able to figure out how I wanted to behave.
I did not want to be his friend. But, I could be cordial and calm and friendly (there is a difference). I used to think of him as a neighbor.
And then I went on with my life.
As I've said, I do have serious regrets about how I handled the financial aspects of my divorce. I, too, worried about rocking the boat too much.
If I had to do that over again, I would do it so much differently. Because that is two different things. Taking care of myself and my child should be the most important thing.
So, B, you do not have to be his friend. But, you do want to be strong, capable and calm. For you. And so that when or if he looks to you in the future, he sees someone who was in control, who looked out for his kids and who is someone he can rely on.
Trust your instincts. We are from Brooklyn, we have them in spades.
You are doing great.
bkyln,
i go through much the same....i don't want to rock the boat too much. at the same time, i don't want to be around him
for me, as much as i can't stand his actions........sometimes when i see him, i catch glimpses of the "he that used to be"
that puts me 2 steps back
much of the time tho, i see this cold 47 year old, who dates girls in their early 20's ( or yikes - just a year out of high school)
someone who chooses not to be with his child, when he can
someone who needs constant adulation
someone who needs weed to get through the day without anger
and someone who doesn't really love me anymore
i guess that's the one that hurts the most
so i don't really want to be his friend...i want us to get on for the sake of our son
i am nervous about asking for more money, even tho his career seems to have taken off these past 2 years, meaning when he works more, i take less jobs
and yes, bklyn grrrrls are very very strong
urworthy has always had many wise words
Thanks guys for all the input. I have read these over the past few days and it really is like a red bull for my attitude and gives me hours of positivity and just being happy with me & who & where I am today.
Urworthy, you really nailed something for me and thats believing he is in crisis. When I believe he is in crisis, I do well and even thrive, but when we have these interactions where he acts so logical and normal it makes my head spin.
He puts forth these attitude that was reinforced by our first MC and by our mutual friend (his boss) early on, that whats the big deal about getting a D and having 2 young kids. "hey bkylnmom why are you freakin out we will just coparent"
Its this attitude and his "acting normal" which get me crazy like I did last week.
Lucky for me the crazy is now fewer and farther between. I now know what I need to do when I am spinning and that is go to Alanon meeting and write everything going through my stubborn brain onto these boards.
I am so grateful. My girls are so sweet and loving, and they show me so much love
Thks again for all the support.
So, let me ask you, he is acting normal when he says, "Why are you freakin out,so we get a divorce and the kids will just have to deal?" Is that the way he would have felt before all this?
And of course he has to say that. I always said if my xh had to face all that he did it would bring him to his knees. They have to justify their actions, B. Because if it's not everybody else, then it must be them and they are not ready to handle that.
They can have long moments of normalcy. All part of trying to keep it all together.
Next time you have an interaction where he appears normal, picture the cuckoo bird flying around his head.
I agree about the apparent normal being so disturbing to us. At its worst it is gas-lighting - trying to convince someone that their ideas are crazy, and they (the MLCer) is normal. I think we buy into it because these words are coming out of their mouths, and we loved and trusted them for such a long time.
My eldest son (an adult) put it succinctly 'Dad can do normal these days for about two hours and then the cracks start to show'. However a few years back he could only do normal for about 20 minutes tops, so that is progress, of a sort!
They absolutely have to normalise it to themselves. I really have reached the stage of eating the popcorn and watching the show unroll. The rollercoastr is amazing when you finally emotionally detach.
acting normal is the worst form of gaslighting. So true!
I know the things he says are coo coo and he would never think this was okay before his breakdown but he just has so much support sometimes. Not from his family - but he is getting promotions and excelling at work.
Thanks for the love
ugh....i get that bkyn.....my h's career seems to be taking off again.....he had a slump for a few years (left his job to try something else) while he did i took as many gigs as i could so he could "follow his dream"
when that failed he returned to his first gig
for years they made little and i was the main source of income
not that he is gone they seem to be picking up momentum
while i take less gigs because my son needs stability
he is being adored and traveling and everything seems to be going great for him
yay........
so i understand how that feels
B and Grr, often times the MLCer is quite able to compartmentalize parts of their lives.
They are trying to feel good about themselves. Looking everywhere they can. So, sometimes they become more successful.
BUT, I would not want to be them for all the money in the world. Because at the end of the day, they are broken.
It may look like they are having the time of their life. Reality is so much different then what you are thinking in your head.
I had an opportunity to speak with my xh several times regarding all this.
While he never said he was/is in a MLC, he has acknowledged that he felt like he was in a frenzy. Trying to find the next thing that was going to make him feel better. Despairing when it didnt. Going to the next thing and the next.
And while I thought he was with ow, many times, he was alone. Hating to be because it was tortune to be alone with himself, but, hurting too much to be with anyone.
I believe he is still deep in the tunnel. He knows something is wrong, still cant figure out how to get help. Not my problem.
Just wanted to tell you, life is not all rainbows for them.
It's best not to let your mind go to places of which you cannot know for sure.
And who cares what is happening or not happening for him? Not you, right? Because you are going to make your life great.
We only get this one, it is best to enjoy it the best way we can.
Let him blow in the wind right now and leave him to his path. And you create a new one for you.
urworthy ( u certainly are) those are very wise words.........and at my core i know you are right
it's just seeing through all this muck
and i feel like i'm standing in the middle
stuck and unable to move
i will get there
one foot in front of the other
I had a great day and it was so nice to read these boards through out the day and know I had support out there.
Then tonight...
After I call to say goodnight to the girls, H calls me back to ask if I know that my father/lawyer will not look at the financials until he is receives an affidavit of net worth. I told him I didnt know that but I know my father has been asking for this affidavit for several months. H tells me thought in december this divorce was close to being over. Now he is get on his lawyer.
Why is he calling me with this crap? I have a lawyer. He can talk to his lawyer who can talk to my lawyer. Talking to me about this crap is abuse. It hurts my feelings to help him leave his family.
Here is the email I thinking of sending him.
Hey H
I know this process is really confusing and hard. It would help me greatly if we could use the lawyers to discuss any aspects of the divorce. It is still very upsetting to me that our daughters will not be raised in a two parent home and conversations about our divorce hurt me.
I am happy to communicate regarding co-parenting aspects as we have been but about our divorce is really too much.
Bklyn
What do you guys think
i think you should send it, i am on the fence about telling him it hurts you, he must know that.
but at the same time, you have nothing to lose by saying that
and i think its good to let him know you would rather be contacted by the lawyer
really, i know that must be painful for you
this whole thing is just awful
i feel for you
i really do
but you will get past this, as will i
Just my two cents, but my H says that crap too. Doesn't want to work through the lawyers to "save money" which is a load of bull. He can't intimidate you through a lawyer. That's the real reason. He knows it hurts you and he's hoping to catch you in a weak moment so you will give in. That's my opinion. H does this and then throws in emotional statements that he knows will either hurt or scare me to weaken me. Do not let your guard down.
I swear BK your H and Mine are like brothers from another mother.
Sweetie, send it if you feel you want to.
I would make a couple of changes. Just my opinion.
Hey H
I know this process is really confusing and hard. It would help me greatly if we could use the lawyers to discuss any aspects of the divorce as it is difficult for me to talk about it with you.
I am happy to continue to communicate regarding co-parenting aspects as we have been.
Here's why. When you say something again about your children and you say that it hurts you, he thinks, there goes B again.
He knows it hurst you and he knows how you feel about the children. You've said several times, I'm sure. So no need to say it again, right?
So, now you've told him what you want. And so, you need to stick to it. Whenever he begins to talk to you, you need to tell him to go through the lawyers.
Do not be afraid to speak your mind. I agree that it is a means of intimidation. Dont allow it.
You can do this, B.
FWIW, I wouldn't send an email. You've told him to go through the lawyers, so whenever he tries to sneak in a comment about the divorce, either put the phone down, or just say, "speak to your lawyer." Sending an email may appear weak, because he's getting you to communicate about the divorce, even if only to explain.
Just a thought.
B,
I agree w/the other posters...any time that he brings up the situation about the divorce and/or paperwork, advise him to speak to his lawyer.
Please don't send the email to him...he already knows how you feel about things and you do not need to repeat yourself about the divorce.
Hmmm. A lot to think about.
Yes maybe a better idea is to just be prepared next time he does this and say "could you speak to your L about this"
It feels good to see the changes Ive made. The old me would have sent him a crazy email last night but the new me drafted a sane email and is thinking about my next steps. Love it
B, your decision. And that's a good thing.
And maybe you could say, "Please speak to your lawyer about this." Subtle change, but, an important one, ya know?
And good for you for seeing a change and loving it.
Seeing you handle yourself so well gives me hope for myself. Stay strong Bklyn!
More like, "do you see a law degree hanging on my wall? No?
Then, you know who to call .... your fr*aking lawyer, dude." Or, on the phone, "I must have memory loss ... when did I attend law school?"
Just kidding. hehehe
I want to share some good news.
My SIL, h brothers wife, has been battling lymphoma since her diagnosis Jan 2011. She has gone through 7 or 8 rounds of chemotherapy and radiation. Both have been ineffective.
In January she underwent a new treatment where they bioenginer your own t-cells with a safe altered form of HIV and your own t-cells attack the cancerous white blood cells.
She got the results of the treatment yesterday and it's working!!! 50% reduction of the tumors. I am so excited.
It's such a blessing.
There is an amazing article about this treatment at the nytimes website by Denise Grady
THANK you for some GREAT news...we need more of those pieces.
In fact, if you get a chance, I posted a story about a woman named "Carol" whom I so admire. I think it's both on Tad's thread and the thread with my name on it.
I think YOU will love it...we're all just trying to get where Carol is, (but maybe without so much trauma!)
Congrats to your sil!
B,
I'm very happy to hear the news. I am keeping her in my thoughts and prayers.
Awesome news!
just checking in..hope things are ok and that your sil is doing well
Hey BK- Hope all is good.
^ was wondering how Bklyn and the girls are doing too.
Hi guys!
I have been pretty busy these days but I am always stopping by and reading threads just haven't had much of a reason to update.
Things are status quo over here some good days, some great days and some not so good days.
Everything still headed to D. It does seem like his relationship with OW has cooled or at least she is not hanging out with my kids.
Some days I actually feel okay with being rid of my H. I just think he is such a weak weak man, that he wouldnt work on our issues. Sometimes I feel sorry for him. Other days I am sad for my girls. Other days I hate his guts.
I try to count my blessings.
I love you guys. Keep posting to your threads I am always reading and keeping tabs just sometimes dont have much to say.
You sound good, B. Glad to see you're doing ok.
My little ones bday is coming up, and he asked what we should do.
I said I would love to have a princess party at the park and hire a Cinderella look a like and the rain cover could be my place.
He told me he didnt like the idea because it would make him feel awkard to be at my house.
I am so sad, that I cant give my daughter the party she would love because he is such a dork. rug
Could you have two parties? One at your house without him? Just a thought.
Not sure if you were looking for a solution or just feeling the sad. It is terribly sad. Can't get past his own crap to do right by his kid. Ick. Ick. ICK.
I'm glad you are doing ok though. :-)
Heather
Yes why should you not do what you wan because of him? Heck with him. Do what you want. If he can't man up enough to put his kids first heck with him.
Oh yeah...I'm in a mood tonight.
He's a real peckawood! Lol!
$5 word of the day...
Hi B-Mom,
Was thinking of you the other day, glad you posted
Your daughter's birthday is about her, not him. And while it wouldn't be right to purposely make him uncomfortable, it is not your responsibility to make him feel at ease either.
He made choices, now he has to deal with them. I believe it's called a reality check.
If he doesn't like that birthday idea, he can feel free to plan his own party. I'm sure it would be just SO much fun! (Insert saracastic voice here!)
Hang in there girl. You are one awesome mommy
^ they're right Bklyn. Have the party your daughter wants and deserves.
Hey B, have to say, I agree with everyone. She only gets to be this age once. And sorry he will feel awkward - his problem, not yours.
He could choose not to go to your house. I know that you are thinking it would be sad for your daughter.But I think she would love her party. And maybe he could step up and do something special with her.
Sweetie, do what you want for your daughter. You will be glad you did.
My D15's B-day fell on a Monday when W had her, I threw a kick-a$$ surprise party for her at my place on Wednesday when I had her. I guarantee she had more fun at my place two days later. The funny thing is when W dropped her off, she tried to come in. Nope (of course, I got no such invitation on D's actual birthday). Assuming Easter will be the same. We are coloring eggs Friday night and the bunny will make a special visit on Sat morning when the kids are at my house. Unworthy is absolutely right, do what you want for D, it will be special for her because you're he parent that cares more about her than yourself. The kids know.
J.
A lot to think about. Thanks guys.
I am non confrontational and I don't want to battle him. But she is only 3 once and she loves princesses. It's so freaking cute
It's your child's birthday and she is only 3 once...do what you had originally planned...the park and the princess thems sounds wonderful for a child her age. Besides, there's no guarantee that it will rain on the day you plan to have it...
B, I am non confrontational also. It stinks sometimes, doesnt it? But when it comes to my son, get the heck out of my way - LOL!
B, sounds like a good 180 for you. No need to be confrontational, though. But you can tell want you to plan to do in a straightforward way.
"H, I've decided that I really want this princess party for d, so that is my plan. I know she'll love it. I hope you decided to come to my house if it rains, but it is your choice."
hi brooklyn,
as urworthy said, there is not a need to be confrontational...make a wonderful party for her, it is for her and leave it up to him to do what he will
but you can't worry about that
hope you are good
I always think about you Brooklyn glad I found an update. You sound like you are in a much better place!! So happy for you
I am soo nonconfrontational also but I say plan the party you want to plan. Let H know about it and if he doesn't come it is on him not on you. Focus on your D and how she would want to spend her bday
I get it BK and do what you think is best for you and your girls but I agree w/ the consensus.
Don't own your h's feelings. If he feels awkward then he can deal with it however he wants to deal with it. But his feelings shouldn't come before what you think is best for your daughter, IMO.
I've had to go to events/party's at my stbx's for my kids and it may have been awkward but nothing would stop from doing what I felt was in the best interest of my boys.
Good Luck and I'm sure it will work out great cause they have an awesome mom.
I wrote this to him:
H
I really want to have this princess party for D2, she will only be 3
once. Also there is no guarantee that it will rain and we would move
indoors.
We will both be parents to the girls for a long time and I think its
important that we learn how to co-parent together and get along.
I hope you will reconsider.
--
I am so proud of myself for sending this. It was scary for me to stand up for myself to him. I still want his approval, even though I know nothing I do will get his approval - I need to do what is right for me and the girls.
I cant thank you guys enough for your supportive feedback. Seriously. Thank you
Yay BK!!
You rock! Your H is a fool.
I hope he comes around for your daughter's sake.
WH
awesome note, bk.
You handled it perfectly Bklyn!
I think your note to your h was perfect. I hope that he will reconsider and attend.
Great note!! You are a great mom focus on what your d's want. If H can't come too bad. He can plan a party on his time.
Keep it up!!
Nice job BK, any response?
Yippeee! So proud of you, B. Dont let him talk you out of it, ok?
You said you still want his approval. Why do you think that is still? What would happen if you didnt get it? Just some things to think about.
Will you dress your daughter in a princess outfit? That would be cute.
No reponse yet and I dont think he will send one this weekend. He is with the girls at his parents house for easter.
I want his approval because I want him to love me because I don't love myself.
Wow that was very cathartic writing that I dont love myself. But you know what I am getting there.
All the steps I have taken through this program, have made me more comfortable with myself. I definitely have been doing better networking at work and just have been a million times more comfortable in my own skin.
My h lack of response is so predictable. He gets so angry if things are not planned his way but he has no idea how to deal with it, it all stays bottled up inside.
Last night when I called to talk to the girls and he was at his parents house. He was joking with them "no girls you can have milk or water, you can't have daddys beer"
I know I am reading too much into it but he know I think he has a drinking problem why does he mention alcohol. He has made these jokes before. It's really not funny any more
Oh B-Mom,
We love you
It's hard to look at ourselves and see what is really there, the good and the bad.
I always like to think that I know, KNOW, I'm not perfect. But I'm pretty damn good.
You should be able to look in the mirror and think the same thing.
At the end of the day, I think we need our own approval, not our spouses.
You go ahead and plan the best kick a$$ princess party on the east coast
bkyln...you wrote "I want his approval because I want him to love me because I don't love myself."
i feel the same way sometimes...but then comes the realization that i am doing the right thing by my children, while he drops the ball over and over
reason enough to love myself
and i hope you can see that as well
hang in there
I want his approval because I want him to love me because I don't love
Wow BK. That's really an amazing revelation. Just my two cents but you should get to know yourself and learn to love yourself. From what I've seen you are pretty awesome. I think you need to show yourself that you are worth loving and maybe then you won't WANT your H. You will know you deserve more.
As far as him not responding to you that's just passive/aggressive behavior at it's finest. I know, my H does it a lot. Then has the audacity to accuse me of being passive aggressive.
Hang in there sweetpea.
Bklyn, I really hope I did not upset you by asking that question. I would never want that.
I asked because I can tell how you feel about yourself because I felt the same way.
And I know you dont see what an extraordinary person you are and what an amazing mother you are, too.
You know, most people in our situation would just say, he doesnt want to be married, screw him. It takes someone special to fight for their family, B. It does.
My xh was very controlling. He was very negative and never satisfied. That's who he was and I accepted it because I loved him.
But by the time the bomb dropped, I was very small. I felt like I just could not measure up to what he wanted. No matter what I did.
It took years of work for me to realize that I was worthy. I was ok. I was lovable, and kind and smart and I was a good
person. I had friends and family who loved me and a son who adored me.
And I dont want it to take years for you to realize it.
Sweetie, you dont need his approval. You dont even need his love. You may want it, but, you dont need it.
The single most important person that we need to love us is ourselves. No one else can measure our worth.
B, you are kind and smart and lovable, a good mother and a good person.
Never let anyone ever make you feel differently.
You are worthy, B. You are. Believe it.
I was not upset at all that you asked me to look at myself. I have known for sometime now how deeply I resented myself, but it really helped to articulate it.
These posting really helped me take another step this weekend forward to the light. I also began reading a book about a mom whose kids died of Tay Sachs and that has been inspiring. Then I took a yoga class where the teacher talked about why a lotus flower is so symbolic - its because the roots are so deep under the muck and dirt of the pond it takes a couple of years for it really grab hold until it blooms.
All this was inspiring until my kids came home from their weekend with dad and my in laws and I found out his girl friend went with them. This is not the first time but it stabbed me like a knife.
What makes them (H & girlfriend) think its okay to place house with my kids, to drive in her car like a family, to tuck my kids in at night, to put them in their pjs, to spend easter hunting for eggs with them Is this normal?
So for the first time, I say something. He comes back in with the last load from the car, I hurry up his goodbyes with the girls and while he is on the front stoop.
I tell him that I problem with driving companion. He asks me if we maybe we should meet and talk about it. I said no I dont want to talk about this, you have clearly decided this is okay for your children and this is not okay for your kids, but there is nothing to talk about.
I didnt yell or lose it.
Once the door was closed I broke down and cried to my girls. I said a million things I shouldnt have to them. I told them daddy wanted to be married to Jess and not to me, I told them Daddy loved Jess and not their mommy.
I wanted to tell them Jess is an a$$hole home wrecker but I left that out.
In the mist of my breakdown to my girls, I called my parents to come over, which was smart. I knew I needed help.
I dont understand how his girlfriend can go into work, with people I know and tell them she spent a weekend, easter with my kids and my in laws and my husband and people think this is okay. That no tells her she is an a$$hole. She goes on acting like she is such a nice girl.
I hate the idea of these too playing house with my kids. I hate that. I want to call this b!tch and tell her never to touch my children. I want to call her and tell that she is home wrecker.
The worst thing that my H did was get me to believe that this was all my fault. He made me think I was crazy.
I am not crazy and I deserve better. So do my girls.
PS. So so glad I am gonna have the best princess party ever!
Ohhh god, I too am going through this as well.
BM I am so sorry you have this to face now.
My XW just announced last week she is in a relationship.
My kids talk about the guy now to me. He sound just like me with all the similar interests.
I have been struggling hard with this since the announcement a week ago.
BM, I have spoken to friends and family about this and sadly there is nothing we can do about it except move forward with our own lives.
We have to be strong and put up a positive front to our kids. They are in the middle of this and are hurting more than ever. We can't put our own emotional pain onto them.. They can't process it.
All we can do is be the "rock" for our kids.
((((BM my heart goes out to you))))
Oh Brookly I am so sorry. I know how hard this is.
I am going through this myself. My H came to visit the kids, hasnt' seen them since Nov and brought his OW and her 2 kids and they all spent a great family vaca together....
I tried to speak to H about how this isn't good for the kids they have been throught a lot this year blah blah blah. He heard none of it and of course did whatever he wanted to. He told the kids she was his friend. I am not sure what else he said but they really didnt' say much about her to me.
I read that your kids look to you to see how to handle things and I have tried my best not to say anything about about their dad and just act like everything is fine. I tell them it is ok to be sad and mad at Dad but that he loves them. I told S8 last night it was ok to miss Dad that sometimes I miss him also. But for the most part I try to act like everything is ok so they are ok too. I know that is hard. It was really smart to call your parents for help then. We are all here for you.
You have to keep telling yourself it is your H's loss. You are an incredible woman and he is going to be the one missing out.
I'm so sorry BK.
Your H is acting like an @$$. If I had not taken action and gotten an order that keeps OW away from my kids H would be dragging my kids all over heck and back to see that &itch. I know how badly it stings. My D even told me how Daddy was going on a date with OW. She even brings it up in front of H who quickly tries to change the subject. At least he acts embarrassed in front of me. I too hate the idea that the kids think his classless actions are okay. It's up to us to teach them that it isn't.
My counselor told me kids aren't stupid. They learn by watching us and we need to be true to ourselves.
Legally is there anything you can do to keep the kids from seeing her?
WH
B,
How are you? I know his latest actions have hurt you deeply and I am truly sorry. Some day, he will regret what he's done. Your h is nothing but a selfish, self-absorbed @ss.
You are loved by all of us here on the BB and we think you are special. You've been a support to others and we want to support you in any way that we can. You are a good person, a wonderful mother and in time, you'll come to realize that life is good again. Be kind to yourself. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself.
Hugs to you today and I'm sending positive vibes your way.
Your words and support mean so much to me today.
Knowing that you guys understand is a god send. It gives me the strength to take the high road.
I know yesterday I was not my best after H left. That I showed my children part of my ugly side but I also did things that worked like had my parents come over, didn't curse or completely rip OW apart like I could have.
Its so funny I know that if I told my girls that OW wanted to be their stepmother my girls would think she was evil; thank you disney. But I held back and didnt drop that ball.
I was not perfect but I was not crazy. My H actions are hurtful and mean, and its normal for me to be hurt by him. Its normal for me to be angry.
He is a fool and missing out on so much love. (Deleted cruel sentence about OW)
Yes one thing I have learned on my journey is that it's okay to be angry. It's how you process the emotion that matters. This was huge for me.
WH
Sorry Bklyn. I can imagine how this must hurt.
Keep showing those girls how to be a lady. H will realize his stupidity in due time.
BM,
I have not posted in a while but have continued following your journey. You and I have pretty much walked alongside from the get go and our situations have a lot of similarities.
I so understand everything you go through as I find myself in similar, very painful situations. I hope you know that I truly care for you and am here to show my support. You have lots of people here who constantly come and offer words of encouragement and support and you are always so grateful and gracious about that because you are an amazing woman.
Yet today I do feel compelled to bring the unpopular POV now and give you a bit of a 2x4... Please, please know that it comes from a place of caring for you and to try to see you happy. If you feel I am way off here, disregard and ignore. Yet if something, anything stings just a bit or hits home, please, please think about it. Perhaps you can entertain different thoughts than what you have been processing for a while now. I don't mean to offend.
What makes them (H & girlfriend) think its okay to place house with my kids, to drive in her car like a family, to tuck my kids in at night, to put them in their pjs, to spend easter hunting for eggs with them Is this normal?
B, you know my sitch. You know my H's OW is also present in my kids' lives and gives them presents and tucks them in at night and everything. I have repeatedly said how this is probably THE MOST hurtful thing of all that is happening. Why? Because I feel displaced and threatened as a mother. Those are MY feelings. People tell me that is not possible, yet they still invade my thinking and bring me to negative thinking.
I honestly believe you are also in that same place. Simply asking the questions about why and how this is happening is keeping you stuck. It breeds resentment in you and even though you try very, very hard to take the high road, I think that resentment and anger seeps through in your posts here. And if it does here, you can be assured that it also shows in your interactions with your H and your Ds.
Does it matter if it shows with your H? You could argue it doesn't if you are done standing and could care less what he thinks. Yet from what I have read and know about you, you are always wanting to be better, to take the high road and treat others with kindness.
What about your children? It will always matter if your children see their mom harboring resentment... They are smart and they will feel it and experience it. Have you ever heard anyone say how their Mom never really got over their D and they became bitter? I have and that is one of my worst fears in all of this. I am not saying you are there, but when we stay stuck and focused on the negative, it can become a habit and a way of life.
So for the first time, I say something. He comes back in with the last load from the car, I hurry up his goodbyes with the girls and while he is on the front stoop.
I tell him that I problem with driving companion. He asks me if we maybe we should meet and talk about it. I said no I dont want to talk about this, you have clearly decided this is okay for your children and this is not okay for your kids, but there is nothing to talk about.
I didnt yell or lose it.
To me, the fact that you said something shows me that you are not detached yet. I get it. I am not either and I have let my emotions also come through either by saying something or being short with my H or doing something passive aggressive.
I want you to ask yourself - what was your motivation for saying something to him?
Why bring it up and and then refuse to discuss it later?
You have been around long enough and know that you cannot control him. I doubt that was your intent.
Did you want to guilt him?
Did you want to show him that his actions are wrong, reprehensible, immoral?
The reason I ask is that I know in my case I have done the above. I know my motivations have not been pure. This is not part of taking the high road...
Once the door was closed I broke down and cried to my girls. I said a million things I shouldnt have to them. I told them daddy wanted to be married to Jess and not to me, I told them Daddy loved Jess and not their mommy.
I wanted to tell them Jess is an a$$hole home wrecker but I left that out.
BM, this ^^^^^ is what worries me when I see the anger and resentment in your posts. When we bottle it up inside without a healthy outlet and processing, it comes out when we least want it.
Our kids do not deserve to hear that. They cannot even process it in a healthy way. All they hear is mommy being very sad and angry, saying bad things about daddy and OW and how daddy is to blame for their broken family.
Please, please when you feel the urge to say something to them, leave the room, place them in front of the TV, anything to avoid this.
I dont understand how his girlfriend can go into work, with people I know and tell them she spent a weekend, easter with my kids and my in laws and my husband and people think this is okay. That no tells her she is an a$$hole. She goes on acting like she is such a nice girl.
I hate the idea of these too playing house with my kids. I hate that. I want to call this b!tch and tell her never to touch my children. I want to call her and tell that she is home wrecker.
The worst thing that my H did was get me to believe that this was all my fault. He made me think I was crazy.
Do you see all the anger and judgement here ^^^^?
Look, I am NOT saying you don't have a right to be angry. I am not saying you should not be hurt! It hurts like nothing in this world will ever hurt. I know because I am walking in your shoes... Yet we need to find a way to deal with it.
You have come a long way, but I honestly, honestly still hear so much anger, finger-pointing and judgmental statements in your posts.
Do you still love this man?
Do you still want to save your M?
Have you truly accepted that he is in a R with someone else and that your children are already a part of it?
Look, the reason why I ask is because these are the EXACT same things I struggle with - anger, acceptance, detachment & forgiveness.
I have a very, very hard time reading your posts because I see myself in everything you say and I can see how much work I still need to do on myself.
Are you in as much pain about yourself as I am about myself?
Are you also struggling with self-forgiveness?
WHAT CAN YOU DO DIFFERENTLY NOW FROM WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR SO YOU CAN GET CLOSER TO LETTING GO OF THIS RESENTMENT SO YOU CAN MOVE ON AND BE HAPPY?
You are an amazing mom, a kind, strong woman, now you need to become a HAPPY woman.
You are not crazy - you are just hurting so, so bad and are still angry and way too focused on blaming your H and pointing out how much he is hurting you and the kids and how bad and reprehensible his actions still are and it's just poisoning YOU.
I deserve better. So do my girls.
YES! YES! YES! SO WHAT CAN YOU DO TO MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER FOR YOU, regardless of what your H and OW are doing?
I am in this journey with you - we can do this. Let's have compassion for ourselves, our hurt and find forgiveness. There is a way and we need to find it - for us and our kids.
((((((((((((((((((((((BM))))))))))))))))))))))
Keep_going,
Thank you for writing that post.
I too am just starting the process where my XW now has a serious relationship and my kids are talking about it.
It breaks my heart.
I just want to scream don't the kids and I matter enough to work on our situation instead of finding a new guy. I can scream all I want it's not going to change a thing.
So, thank you for posting what you did. It will help me stay calm, strong and dignified.
kg...i thank you for that post as well....i know my son is hurting from all this and i don't want the hurt to go any further than it has to
our children sense everything
but if we are ok, then they will be as well
even if we have to pretend
hugs to all of you and may we all sleep peacefully tonight
Bklyn, I so feel for you.
Please have a look at Beatrice's recent post on marriage as a business in this MLC section.
She has a really helpful perspective.
KG
Thank you for that post. It hit home for me as well. I am going through the same thing my ex just came to visit the kids with his friend and her 2 kids. I think it really made me feel replaced as a mother. But I need to let go of what he is doing and live my life!!
I need to just keep my focus on me and my boys.
Fake it till we make it!!!
Hi sweetie. I hope you are ok. I have been thinking of you all day.
I can feel the hurt in your posts and I am so sorry.
I need to tell you a few things - one Brooklyn girl to another.
You have every right to be angry. This suckks. It really does.
So a couple of things. It is impossible to try to make sense of your h's actions.
Now, his MLC does not give him a free pass to do what he's doing. Ultimately, he is responsible for his actions. But as he is in one and we are not, it does offer some insight into the fact that he is not right. He is clearly broken because someone of sound mind does not act this way.
But, I dont really care about him one bit. It is you I care about.
So, you need to do a couple of things. You need to stop trying to understand what he is doing. Because you will just go round and round if you continue.
Then you need to really and truly detach. You have to get yourself together and start worrying about you and those babies. To helll with him right now, B. And she is not worth your tears. Trust me on that one.
B, you have every right to be angry. I get that. Feel it, go in your car and scream, punch something, go for a run, whatever and get it out.
Because here's the thing. You need to use the anger to propel you forward. And then once you do, you will learn to let it wash over you. You dont want to hold onto it because then it saps your energy and weighs you down. That energy is better spent on you and your girls.
And I feel that it is ok to let your children know if you are sad or angry. That is part of life. But, they are watching you. And unfortunately right now their father is not being the parent they need. And it suckks, but, right now that's on you.
And you want them to feel safe and to know that momnmy is there and she is strong and courageous. Show them how to navigate through life's turmoils with dignity and strength.
I know that you wished you had handled it differently. Now you know better, so next time you'll do better. That doesnt mean that you wont break down or get angry ever again, but, I think you might count to 20 or go to your room for a few minutes before you say anything.
I know this is so hard, B. But I know you can do this. We New Yorkers are made of tough stuff.
hang in there. You will get through this and come out the other side. And we will be here every step of the way.
I am so blown away by all the support.
Thank you all so much.
Urworthy there are so many truths in your post and truly detaching is definitely the goal. I am totally over him in at least one way and thats me wanting to be with him. I do not want to be in a relationship with any man that could be so cruel.
I just have a really big issue when it comes to the kids being in the arms and being loved by another woman. It is not rationale or sane but it can definitely send me over the top. (I want to write I will work on this, but I cant even write that now - how can I work on being kind to a home wrecker, how can I work on accepting that what is best for my kids is that they bounce back in forth between two homes. I accept that they will be okay, that they will be fine but I believe that my H and OW are doing my kids a grave injustice)
KG, I really appreciated your post. I am definitely not a Pema Choldron or Mother Theresa, I am human and have strong feelings especially when it comes to my kids.
I give myself a B for my interaction the other day with my H. Actually for my interaction with my H I give myself an A but I got a D for my behavior with the kids.
I did not yell or scream when I told my H his behavior was wrong. I just told him my truth. This was actually a big accomplishment for me. I have been silent as my H has abused me since Sept 2011.
He has blamed me time and time again that he had no choice but to leave his abusive W. I have accepted that statement and accepted the blame. Sunday night was the first time I stood up to him and said in a reasonable way (not as I did post bomb when I flew off the handle) but it a reasonable way. This is not right.
The reason I didnt want to have a conversation about it is because its not a debate. He clearly thinks its right for kids and I clearly don't. There isnt much too talk about, I just wanted to go on record in reasonable way and say I do not condone this. I will not stop you and I will not mention it again but I do not approve of this for my kids.
I will not be silent.
I am worthy. I can love myself.
I definitely have a way to go to reach serenity but each day I inch myself just a little closer.
Love you guys
Good for you for standing up for yourself and speaking your truth. It took me a while to get to that point as well and now I wish I could go back.
My stbx still is angry, blames everything on me, and continues to re-write history. But its her history because I will not allow her to re-write mine.
I've found that a lot of growth occurs after I have an interaction like the one you recently had. It may set me back slightly but after it is processed it is a catalyst for further detachment and change that I want to make for me. I hope that is the case for you too.
Luv ya BK
Bklyn I disagree with one of your statements. I think it's perfectly reasonable to get upset when ow wants to play mother. You carried them, care for them, and have their best interest at heart.
I have played the same situation in my mind, and heaven help any man that attempts to play daddy with mine. I hope I can be half as adult about it as you were.
"I AM WORTHY. I CAN LOVE MYSELF"
That ^^^^ right there, just put the biggest smile on my face.
Good for you, B. Good for you.
I completely understand how you feel about having another woman doing family things with your children. Nothing insane about that feeling. You feel what you feel.
In a perfect world, all children would be with two loving parents. That is what is best for them.
You dont have to like what they are doing. You certainly dont have to agree with it or condone it.
But I'd like you to think about a couple of things. First one is, there is no one on this Earth that will ever be a mother to your children besides you. She could be a freakin Fairy Princess, aint gonna happen.
I know you and other people might not like what I am going to say. You do not have to be nice to her. Why would you be? But, I would rather have someone who is kind and nice to my children, while they are away from me, then someone who is not.
So, I am glad you didnt say anything horrible to the children about her. Those are grown up feelings and they are too young to understand. You dont want them to be afraid when they are with her or to feel that they are hurting you by being with her and their father.
B, you can feel however you want, but, it is really important, at this young age, that you let them feel safe.
Now, as far as your h. Good for you for telling him how you feel. I know that is huge for you. You handled yourself with dignity and strength. So proud of you.
Now you've said it, he's heard it. No need to say it again, because truthfully, he is not going to hear you.
Let him blow in the wind right now. And you get back on your path.
Keep going, sweetie. You got this.
How are you Brooklyn?? Just checking on you
Mtn man loved your thoughts. Your words definitely put a smile in my face. Ur worthy thanks as always for more food for thought. I should have some time without the kids this weekend to address your thoughts.
Thanks for checking Paige. All is back on track here and as SIAS mentions it's usually these breakdowns that then propel me two steps forward.
The kids are with their dad again this weekend because he missed a weekend two weeks ago. Last weekend I worked Saturday so I am kind of looking forward to two days without the kids to catch up on GAL stuff.
I will keep y'all posted.
With love and hugs all around