Still hangin in there - DivorceBusting.com

I am testing this out. Trying to start a new thread in the MLC forum.

Okay looks like it worked.
Today I went to my new therapist who did not recognize me and introduced himself again to me. ( I haven't seen him in 2 weeks and just had one session) But after listening to me he said I should ask my husband, since he says he wants to work on the marriage, what exactly working on it means. Rather than telling me to just be patient. Today he was primping and fussing in the bathroom like he never has before. Told me he has a late meeting and then is working out. Based on some things I told the therapist he said my H may be seeing the ow again and perhaps has consulted a lawyer because H was asking me alot of details about my former marriage (in which I was cheated on) and H said maybe I shouldn't have divorce that one because he wanted back after a few months. It's a long story but there were other reasons for the demise of that marriage. The therapist wants me to ask h to come see him to "help the therapist help me" He asked me to do that last time and my H refuses. I said I'd try again. Therapist agreed that H was trying to control things and not very forthcoming about whats in his head. Seems that I come off as a bother to H. He is not being mean but still sort of aloof and not affectionate.

H was being quite mean a week ago,and rude. Now he's being nicer, but reminds me of previous affair behavior.

Rachael,
Just my two cents...I think he's back in the game once again...affair wise. I don't know if it is an EA or a PA, but the primping and working out may be important clues. He's most likely being nice to you again because he doesn't want you to suspect anything and yes, he's getting attention elsewhere.

I seriously doubt that he will go to the therapist, even if it is to help you.

I'm so sorry that you are in this situation.

Hey snodderly,
Well, that is my suspicion. When he is real nice to me, I feel that it is due to guilt eating at him. I agree, he probably won't go to therapy.

What should I do? I have been cheerful and we haven't really argued like we used to in a while. I set boundaries. I feel at this moment that if he is seeing her I would like him to leave for being a liar. He had this big epiphany about us and made the big announcement to me, our priest and friends that he wanted to work on the marriage and things were good for one month then it went to hell after he sees her at work. It seems like we are stagnant. I am working on the marriage he is doing very little. He tells me to be patient while he figures things out in his head. I feel like putting a voice activated recorder in his car to find out. Because it's awful feeling like I am being deceived again.

Rachael,
I just hate it when they say that they want to work on the marriage and then do little to nothing to do so. I was told the same thing and all the while, he was involved w/the ow. Yes, my xh told everyone that "he" was working on the marriage too.

He's not going to be able to tell you "how" he's going to work on the marriage because technically, in his mind, he's done everything that he's going to do. I think they say this stuff to get us to back off of them so that they can have their cake and eat it too.

I would ask him one more time just how does he propose working on the marriage and if he can't provide you with suggestions or doesn't do what he says, then I would sit back and quietly wait because he will surely provide you w/more signs that he is w/the ow again.

BTW, my xh bought me flowers and candy for Valentine's Day and flowers again on my birthday and anniversary. He even wanted to go out on a dinner cruise in a thunderstorm in DC, just after I had gotten home from working in DC, for our anniversary. I knew then, he had been up to something and he felt guilty. This was a man that never, ever bought me flowers or candy, much less anything other than a card for those dates. They do tell on themselves.

Rachael, you are the only one that can determine when you've had enough. I prayed every change I got and I finally got my answer...it took me 7 months of his crazymaking behavior before I openned the cage door and shoved my xh out. Once he left, my health slowly returned to normal and my life got better, i.e., no more wondering what he was doing and w/whom, I knew where the money was going in my checking account and I didn't have to worry about the lying any longer and one huge thing...I wasn't walking on eggshells every day as well as him gas lighting me every time I found something out.

Rachael, pray and ask the man upstairs to guide you. He will not guide you down the wrong path.

Hey snodderly
whats gaslighting? Is that making you think you are crazy like that old movie? I do pray every day. I have a book called the power of a praying wife. I also say my rosary every day. I have little prayers i say when I think of it too. I know God will help me out. Thanks for your advice.

Rachael,
Yes, gaslighting is a way that your h makes you think you are carzy...just like that old movie. It's a way to make you second guess/doubt yourself.

The Power of a Praying Wife is an excellent book. God is listening and he will help you through this.

Its so hard to learn to take responsibility for what we did contribute but not own what we had nothing to do with. In Alanon they say just keep your side of the street clean.

My H was gas lighting me for months. Blaming me for everything, making me think I was crazy because I was upset that he was leaving me and our girls. During those few months because my side of the street was not clean it was easy for me to be confused. Now that my side of the street is clean, its so much more obvious when he brings his trash over and just dumps it.

I highly recommend alanon even if you are not dealing with someone that is drinking.

Hey Bklyn
what do you mean keeping your side of the street clean?

Dear Snodderly
yep, I'm always worried about the lying. Never used to. Now I see how capable he is of it.

I am absolutely steaming!
My husband told my daughter he was going out to get gas. half hour later I call him and ask what he is doing. He is at the bar getting a drink with a friend. Says he needed a drink. Then tells me to meet him at the bar and that another couple is there that we are supposed to go to dinner with. I am sick of his running away not telling me and then expecting me to be at his beck and call. Asks me not to be mad. I AM. Didn't tell me where he was going. I had to call him after he doesn't show up. Now I am not answering him. I am so sick of being treated like a damn nobody!

Rachael,
You are the only one that can change the dynamics...if you don't want to be at his beck and call, then don't. If you don't feel like going to the bar, then don't, just meet them at the place you are suppose to be going to for dinner.

Go to Alanon. You will find friends.

Alcoholism is not what you think its about. Its not just when a person wakes up naked in the gutter, it is MUCH MORE nuanced.

Keeping your side of the street means, you can only control yourself. Don't worry about cleaning up the block just mow your lawn and pick up your garbage. You can't control how your neighbors or H take care of themselves you can only control yourself.

Sometimes if we keep our side of the block clean, it will inspire others to clean their side.

I did not go to the bar. I did go to dinner later. I spoke to my Db coach. who told me the same thing. In this marriage I realize there is a pattern of some passive aggressive behavior with him and he is controlling and sometimes I wonder if he is jealous of me. Very competative. The Db coach said the same that I can't control him. But when these behaviors occur state my boundary and leave or go into another room. Or in this case not go to the bar.

My counselor said to ask my husband what working on the marriage means since he says he wants to do so. He says he doesn't know but talking every night is doing that. I told him I appreciate that but I'm doing all the work. He said to be patient I said patient for what? For you decide if we have a future? I just have a roommate. He says everything is making him depressed including me and the kids. Feels he has to get away. That's all he does is get away. I told him he can't run away from himself. He is so afraid of getting old without doing all these goals. I told him if he wants to work on this marriage then for Gods sake do somthing! If he cared for me why can't he be affectionate or go see my counselor? I went to bed early and he then he came in and was affectionate and wanted to Ml which is one thing I asked for. This morning he was affectionate and kissed me goodbye then he was gone most of the day having breakfast with a buddy and then to the boat for hours. Came home took a shower and took off without saying a word except that my daughter heard him say he had to get gas. And we were supposed to go out.Which what I wrote about above.

He told me that he wants to go to his married cousins place for a weekend to california by himself. Seems to think that will help. I told him to go ahead but I doubt it will help.

bklyn
I found some al-anon meetings around my area. I may just check em out.

Need Advice.
Don't know what to do. Caught my husband skyping. I'm pretty sure it's the Ow. Do I just ignore and act like I know nothing?

Ignore, but take note. Keep a journal, although here is as good as one. Give him his space, and see what happens. Maybe there might be improvement ... maybe not. My H is also passive-aggressive, not clearly stating his goals, etc. But, I've had enough and asked him to leave. The world fell off my shoulders. Still struggling, but I think it's the best thing I did in the 7 years we have been in this freak show.

Go to alanon.

You don't need to decide today. Journal, think, talk to people you respect. Then decide.

thanks all
I could hardly eat dinner I was so upset and I had my dad over. M h was talkinng to everyone like it's a normal day. I am sick at heart. This man I married, to lie to my face and tell me I am doing everything right in this marriage. So Sad. I feel like running away.

bein me
I can't imagine how hard it was for you to ask him to leave. But I do have a feeling that I would be relieved if he was gone. I cannot trust him. You dealt with 7 years of an ea or just bad behavior?

Sorry meant that I cannot trust my H and I think I might be relieved if mine was out. I feel a little more calm now. I'm going to give him that distance and wait. See what happens. Perhaps his guilt will work on him. Still goes to church with me every sunday. I guess I'll have to do a good acting job and be cheerful when I do not feel like it at all.

I was back reading MLC posts from something cadet sent. Very helpful. Again, the advice is to detach. I believe thats my problem right now. I am letting fear rule me. If my husband did leave it would devastated my s18. He has issues with his dad as it is and this might make him go over the edge. My h seems to be wrapped up in OW. I seem to be too concerned with what H is doing.

Yesterday H left the house on foot for about 10 min or so just before my dad was to come over for dinner. It's the behavior he had when he was texting OW. I made a comment about where he was and he got mad. Then a few min later I saw him on his phone outside by our window so I was able to see him texting on skype. He told me a few months ago that he only tryed it because our computer was out for a few days, but he wasn't using it. Lies.

My H comes home late many nights. I am always there. Doing a 180 would be to not be there. Any suggestions where to go? Don't have many friends now. The ones I do have are tired and want to go to bed early. They work.

hi Rachael,

Some out of the house activities:
-Is there an "artsy" part of town, they usually have later night things going.
-Last showing of movies (after 9 o'clock), especially the discount theaters.
-24 hour gym?
-Sometimes I would just go to a nice spot by the river or up on a bluff and park, think, read, meditate, etc.
-A library, if the hours are late enough, especially if you have a college campus in town. A great way to expand your knowledge and mind.
-Heck, I spent a lot of time in another room (door shut) reading (and I read a ton of books over the fall/winter spring). I wouldn't leave the room, W would have to come to me if there was something she wanted or whatever.

I would make sure to have no dinner or anything waiting for him, let him figure it out.

I know the OP thing is a bear to let go of, but if you stay out of the way and "let" H run with it, it will hasten the resolution of the sitch, one way or another. I stayed out of the way, and W's 4 OMs (over the whole 3-4 year course of this) all ended up showing their true colors and "disappointing" W much faster than if I were hampering her activities. The more I would interfere (in the beginning), the more attractive the OM and more exciting it was for her to do what she was doing...pushing them closer, and I made myself the "evil parent" getting in the way of her "happiness" (teenager thinking). Staying out of the way made the process faster...and I have W's broken computer keyboards to prove it! lol...

Its kinda like raising kids...sometimes you just have to let them eat all their halloween candy at once that night, so they make themselves sick, but by their own doing...Then they learn the hard way the reality we parents were trying to keep them from, and we parents are not the bad guy, since the did it all by their own choice...That make sense?

Deep breathes, read up on detachment and practice it. And pray for H, and your family, and yourself.

Hang in there!

T^2

Had such a hard time today
crying on and off. My h wants to go out of town to supposedly visit his cousin. I think he wants to go away with OW. Thanks for your advice T. How the hell did you handle 4 oms without being a mental wreck? Is she recommitted to your marriage? Part of me wants him the hell away! This deceit eats at me. I pray all the time.

I need to talk to someone. Here is a good place. Told a girlfriend about my husband just leaving and not telling me where he went as I mentioned above and she thinks I should separate. Not gonna talk to her about it anymore. Her husband is an alcholic an a big flirt. Her marriage isn't that hot but she sort of says at least her h tries (b.s.!) My priest told me to only talk to him or my counselor. I have been hurtin lately and unfortunately I did tell my one daughter that H saw ow at work. She doesn't get too emotional and I did belly ache to kids and h's sister about how he's been such a nasty to me. I know I shouldn't. I am trying to keep my mouth shut now. Just hurts.

On the one hand I am scared of losing him and on the other I feel depressed having him around. Sometimes I feel strong like I can detach and other times like a pathetic weakling

H doesn't know I suspect anything. He came home this evening a little earlier than I suspected and put his shoes on went out the back door and disappeared. Same thing he did when seeing OW last time. I am not saying a thing. Just gonna be busy. I hate this!

earlier than I expected.

It takes time, Rachael ... lots of time if you're going to stand for your M. Sometimes that time is lost, and you will still have to ask him to leave, and get a divorce. Weniki is one who can tell you about that. I stood for 7 years, and have just asked my H to leave. I wasn't angry, just finished. Maybe when you get to that point, it'll be easier. Or, perhaps he'll come back to the marriage such as WCW's husband. She also waited for years and years. You just don't know. Gotta go by your gut. In the meantime, try and detach ... I know how hard that is. I would succeed for a few months, and then a day would come when I would just cry for the pain of wanting him, mostly during the cancer. Not doing that anymore.

I also used to sit in my car somewhere and just pray. I like the ideas given above by TS2 for GAL.

Thanks being there
it's good to have a place to get help like here. Appreciate everyones help very much. My emotions are getting the best of me today. I have a little part time job and I take care of a lady with alzheimers. I took care of her before I took care of my mom. This lady is gettin irritated at me these days (i know she can't help it). Just adds to my depression sometimes. Maybe I need to find other work for now.

Hi Racheal,

I just wanted to let you know that I work with elderly dementia patients as my full time job.

And it's a job, and it drains your energy. Having to deal with what you are at home and then with dementia will work you over the coals.

If you can find another job that's less stressful, I'd do it. I know I wish I could've but I live in a small town and not much to choose from.

I really admire your choice to stand for this.

Fake it till you make it.

Find an alanon meeting and you will find people to share with.

Hang in there

So sad I can berely stand it today. cryin as Im writing. I have a appt with my counselor thur. Maybe I need to talk to my priest. Can't talk to my so called best friend. She doesn't encourage me. Back when I was just having problems with H she said I should leave him while her H aint any better. He may not have had an affair but he got caught soliciting someone when he was drunk. that guy is my h's childhood friend. One of the guys he goes to the bar with. The other guy is divorced. Believe it or not I like these guys but they are not perfect.

We have weddings to go to and things with the family and I don't know how I am going to do it. Maybe it's cuz i feel so bad today.
Need help

Husband was so nice to me this morning. So not like him. Just like before when the guilt was probably eating at him. I pray that if he tries to see the ow he will get sick and so will she so they can't be together. I wish they got nauseuos every time they thought about each other.

Rachael - let's step back a little bit and figure out, what is your GOAL and what is your PLAN?

Standing can be a very useful technique, especially if you are using the time to show your H a new, improved you, or if you truly believe this is just a temporary MLC aberration that you have to ride out.

BUT - just being a doormat while your H goes back to having an affair because he thinks he can get away with it, or not having any healthy boundaries around his drinking problem, may not be at all the right approach.

Sometimes the MCLer cannot pull it together until they actually have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

One approach would be to just be honest with him - "H, I am feeling very uncomfortable right now, because I believe you are back in your affair and that this trip you are planning is actually a trip away with OW".

Don't know if I should confront him right now. When I caught him looking her street up on google earth, he was extemely angry and still tried to lie to me that he didn't know exactly where she lived. Just don't think i'm going to get the truth out of him. I did read Hearts Blessing posts about this and the advice was to wait and you'll know the right time. Also, I have read on here that if you're not sure to do nothing. I'm not sure what would be best right now.

Well - another consideration if you are not SURE what's going on, is to find out the truth. Snooping can be a negative thing if it gets you all worked up. On the other hand, if you really just need to know the truth so that you can plan your life accordingly (i.e., if him resuming the affair and lying to you about it is a deal-breaker for you that would make you want to separate or confront him or do something differently than you are now) then gathering evidence so he can't gaslight you may be in order.

Standing is NOT the same thing as being a co-dependent doormat.

Well, that is what I'm thinking. I read on here not to snoop but I have. I told him I won't share him with someone else. What is standing? Is that setting a boundary?

I don't know how I am going to find out info because he is very careful to hide things. I am locked out of his computer acct. and the phone acct. However, I have checked email which I access through my computer cuz he didn't change that password. and his actual phone. I know he gets around this by skyping. The only thing I can think of is to put a voice activated recorder in his car. But where to put it? Plus, I still have to see a lawyer.

Just not sure how to handle this. So I'm going to wait and watch.

Be aware that in some states it is illegal to secretly record someone.

Going to talk to my priest. Maybe I just need to pray and ask God to give me answers. Can't get out of the rut today.

Priest also suggested I be honest and ask him. He also told me to ask H to come and talk to him. I may ask H to do that first. I really can't live with H if he insists on seeing ow. Mentally, I can't handle it.

WEll, sometimes the MLCer can't wake up until they have to actually deal with the reality of the situation they have caused. So long as he gets to have his family and home life AND the thrill of the affair, it's all fun. Once he has to face the reality of his kids' disappointment in him, shame in the community, financial realities of two households, has to do his own laundry - SOME, not all, but SOME affairs lose their luster pretty quickly.

Still, it's a drastic step - only you can know when you're ready for the Last Resort. Maybe re-read that chapter?

I will do more reading thanks. I figure I will take time to think and pray also. No point in rushing.

Standing is when you decide to stand for your marriage, and try and ride out the MLC by working on yourself, i.e. getting a life (GAL). Last Resort Technique (LRT), if you're not sure, is basically kicking him out, and going dark. Difficult when you have kids, so one can go gray-ish.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Rachael. It's such a horrible place to be. In the beginning, I was sure I would have a heart attack. Praying is a good thing to do, and I used to read the scriptures every night. And, it helps to be grateful for the things you do have, for example, the love of your children. Just tell yourself that everything will work out in the way it's supposed to. God will not let you down ... just be patient.

Rachael,
You can ask your h about meeting with the priest, but don't be surprised if he says no. He doesn't think that he's doing anything wrong..."he's working on the marriage"...remember?

If you opt to go w/the Last Resort, are you ready to deal w/the fallout? I haven't seen many mlcers who don't turn cruel and nasty once the spouse puts their foot down. It's very difficult to do when you have children. On the other hand, standing, but going on w/your own life and leaving him in the wind is the other option.

Rachael, if you aren't sure what to do, do nothing. Put your faith in God and allow God to help you make the decision.

Dear Snodderly,
Thanks I asked my h to see the priest. Said maybe then came up with some excuses but then he said he'd think about it. Last night H was anxiety ridden he said due to his eyes getting blurry and he's worried. Wanted to go for a walk and talk and then at night in bed just wanted to hug me and same this morning wanted to hug me. I think some of this may be guilt and for sure anxiety. Always worried about his health.

When I get depressed I remind myself that it's good for him to suffer some guilt. I hope it's eating him up. I pray that what is hidden will be revealed. That he will confess what he is doing.

My children are all adults. 3 live at home. The youngest is 18. My girls know about the affair but don't know I suspect him again. My 2 sons know nothing. My youngest might be upset if his dad left but would probably be pretty angry because his dad can be hard on him and H would be shown as a hypocrite and a liar.

I feel that if I confront him, he will only lie to me unless I have evidence to expose him but I don't. Then he'll just get mad.
That's what happened when I caught him on google earth looking at her street and bald face lying that he still didn't know where she lived! Then had the nerve to get mad at me. But insisted there was nothing going on.

Hi Rachael,

I posted this over on hrm's thread regarding the A:

Quote:

Things I said to myself:

"It isn't REAL love"

"It's just a symptom of how lost she is"

"It's just SHALLOW, teenager brain infatuation, not deep, mature love"

"This too will pass, OM will show his true self and it will end" (and they did, btw)

Stay steady, be the last one standing, true to yourself...whichever way things go...you will know you did all you could, which will be very valuable at the end of the day for inner peace, regardless of any outcomes.

I know the A, the lying, etc. is devastating and infuriating, I do...but here is maybe your challenge, opportunity for growth...it is NOT right, but it IS...

I wish we could change it, erase it, but we can't. Be the best you, grow you, for you...leave the rest to God, he knows what we do not.

T^2

thanks t
I know this is good advice from you and the others. I am a little better today. was a mess yesterday. It is important for me to know I did my best. This has tested me greatly. It's not been as long as many here but what a trial! People here understand since so many are dealing with or have dealt with it. gotta meeting with my c tomorrow see what he says.

went to my counselor today. He said sounds like my h is giving me just enough attention so I won't leave but not enough for me to feel secure. Also that maybe I came off as a mother figure sometimes. Gotta back off. But he too treats me like I am his child many times the way he treats me and speaks to me. Said I have to do more for myself. (i have to kick myself in the ass as I am depressed). Next week is auditions for a community theatre play so I am going to audition.

Gotta question here. In december my husbands work has a big christmas party. That's where he introduced me to OW last year. I don't want us to go. IF he suggests it should I say so? What if he wants to go himself? DB coach thinks I should go and hold my head up high cuz I'm the wife.

One more question. Since H is still living at home and I am going to try and distance myself to protect myself. How do I interact? I am going to stay out late tonight so as not to be so available. One of my fears is that he will say to me is "well now you are not around so much and not working on the marriage" of course being around all the time like I have isn't helping either and he is hardly ever home except at night. So should I try to be in another room frequently? Should I just start by being out a couple nights a week? I know I need to be polite and show no emotion. Any advice?

I would go along with what the DB coach says as far as the party.

Not being so available? I think you are on the right track, be gone one maybe two nights or so a week.

Otherwise you could just be doing your own thing (reading, playing games, whatever) in another room, telling H " I'll be in the other room reading if you need anything" or such. That way, you are "away", but still available, but H will have to go to you, so you aren't pressuring him or anything. Also, if H does come around, fully stop whatever you are doing and give full attention (lol, kinda like raising kids, eh?). That's basically what I had to do because of kids needing me and also low budget...Sandi's 37 rules has some other things which work for how to act around them without being totally "gone" or "there".

The act of going "dim" is a fine art, you'll get the hang of it, just be prepared to adjust the dimmer switch frequently depending on the situation.

T^2

Thanks T
I don't have a fortune to spend going out but I could do a coffee shop or a movie by myself. I printed up sandy's rules a they are good.

To Jack 3 beans
I read an early post by you about trusting but verifying that trust. How do you verify it?

Well I ended up playing wally ball with a girlfriend and her friends and came home at 10:30. Turns out H had been home since 7:30 which is early for him. I thought by the way he was getting dressed up that he would be home late cuz he might've had plans to see ow. Tues night he was sleeping right up tight to me and last night he was far away. I know he is texting ow cuz he grabbed his phone and went downstairs for a few min then I was walking into living room and he got up quickly and left.

I went to church and was thinking about what to do. I would still like to know what jack means by verifying trust. Anyone know? I believe for the sake of my son,at least for now, I will wait. My daughters could handle it if I asked him to go.

I'm going to really try and detach in earnest. I have not hugged him or made any overtures of affection for a couple days but I have been pleasant and we talk. H is being nice (happens when he feels guilty).

Struggling with anger and sadness today. In some ways this 2nd breach of trust with ow may be a deal breaker. H has no remorse, no morals right now but still listening to christian radio and goin to church! I'm good for awhile today then I get these feelings come over me. Very difficult.

I understand the christian thing.My ex is always posting on F/B like this if u love Jesus ....like this if Jesus is ur savior....etc etc etc .....but right now they are blinded by the enemy so what they read is being mangled in their head by the enemy so they can remain in darkness....satan is the father of lies and what better way than to than do it than with God's word....
One day God will deliver them from it and be set free.....but WE may not be around to witness that miracle.
All we can do is keep praying for them and asking God to open their eyes.....and to be set free and that they may truly repent from all the lies they have believed.....
I have been on this board for a long time I mostly read and pray for us all....when I first came here it was to see if there was something I could do to FIX my husband and my marriage,but detaching is key to surviving
But it really does get better, time does heal all wounds and with God's help we survive and go on.....
Take care.....Irma

thanks irma
So sorry about your sitch. My husbands dad died a year ago last june and my mom died last march. My h was headed for MLC for years just didn't know it. Many fears about dying and I wasn't very sympathetic. Seeing the suffering our parents went through before their death made my h get worse I think.

I thought perhaps I should "offer it up" to God as we say as a way of atoning for my wrongdoings. Just got some books about the 5 love languages and about keeping your husband. Hope they will help. I know I have to detach. At the moment it's hard but I am pushing myself out there.

Detaching will be a lifesaver for you,this is the hardest thing I have ever gone thru.
I started seeing my husband descend into MLC a few months before his mom's death, I just didn't know what to look for,since coming here all the signs were there.
God has been there for me since day one and still is, having faith in something or someone you have never seen is a hard thing to do but he is real.....
I have given it to God and he has given me peace, but one more thing that worked for me....that was forgiving him and her...
It was a hard thing to do as well but not until I truly did I had no peace in my heart....
It was hard forgiving her but who knows what lies he told her,it's not all her fault it does take two to tango.....
Hope this helps, seek God's will for your life and hand it over to him...as they say on this board ...LET GO AND LET GOD
Blessing s to you

Thanks Irma
I appreciate your post. And I do pray every day. Yes, this is so very hard. H's behavior is so nightmarish to me. Never thought I'd go through this with him. Terrible. God bless you too.

I was hurting so bad this weekend. Fri night asked my H if he was seeing or texting ow. Said"no, how many times do I have to tell you?" Found out today that he is in contact with her. H doesn't know I know. I want him out. Problem is my son 18, doing crappy in school and I don't know sometimes I think it would cause him a problem if his dad was out and sometimes I think things would be okay.

We have a big wedding to go to in oct. H and I close friends daughter. Don't want us to be the big topic of discussion at the wedding if I kick him out. We had a talk yesterday night about our relationship. H says he's trying (not if he's talkin to ow). He keeps talking about how we fought in the past. I apologized for my part again and he says i don't need to apologize. I told him he never really apologized to me ,no answer, crickets. I told him about the stuff he did and he got mad and said that's all he ever heard about what he did. He acknowledged that he hurt me. No apology.

I told him we were doing good for a month after he said he wanted to try and then he stopped. He denys that. But thats when I think he started seeing ow again. What the hell should I do? Keep hanging on? I know I am told to detach. He still sleeps in our bed! I don't get it.

One question - does your son know about the affair?

If he already knows about it, he might actually do better if H is out of the house. The anger the kids can have towards the straying spouse is corrosive, I know.

If, on the other hand, he has no idea your H cheated, and he has a good relationship with his dad - I can understand why you'd want to try to get through this year.

My son doesn't know. He also doesn't have a good relationship with h. Sometimes h is good with him, but my son sometimes hates his dad and thinks dad hates him. H has never been one to spend alot of time with the kids.

Well, you might think this is stupid but i got the password to h's other email acct. and lost it. I went to an old car show near the house and ow was there with another guy. I don't think she knows me but I stood far away. H was at the boat. I may have lost paper there. Good lord, what was I thinking? Hunted high and low for paper which was big and had a phone no for email. Hope no one finds it. I am becoming a damn stalker. Ow lives on other side of town too.

I totally get how hurtful it is that your h is having an inappropriate relationship with another woman. Don't jump to conclusions. The relationship is in appropriate but the only way he will stop is if he sees that he is missing out on the real prize.

Focus on hobbies and your kids. If your finances are okay, spend money on yourself like you never have. Pay for a class or lessons.

I don't think you should poke the bear.

Use these weeks before the wedding to really focus on you and being happy. You have a great wedding with friends to look forward to don't let his depression drag you down.

Before I found db I was so looking forward to a wedding we were going to together. I thought it would bring us back together. It didn't work. He acted very distant at the event. He drank too much and then I engage in a relationship talk. Big mistake.

Enjoy the wedding with you and your friends not necessarily with him. If he was to particapate in the happy day let him but don't force him to celebrate like I did.

I just wouldn't stop poking him, "why are you so grumpy - this is a wedding?"

H is not real grumpy right now. just super busy. no time for family as usual. Same old excuse. that he had things to do. Doesn't do much around the house. He does pay the bills although he is late alot. I am the one depressed. H promised he wasn't seeing her and lied.

Originally Posted By: BklynMom

I totally get how hurtful it is that your h is having an inappropriate relationship with another woman. Don't jump to conclusions. The relationship is in appropriate but the only way he will stop is if he sees that he is missing out on the real prize.

Thank you, Bklyn, for pointing this out. You just refocused my energy! I am supposed to be showing H I am the real prize.

Hang in there Rachael. I deal with an H that is grumpy one mintue and nice the next. I would agree with not poking the bear.

Thanks hopeful and bklyn.
I guess it just gets down to detaching. I was doing better until he started acting odd again and now I see he contacted ow.

I'm in the same situation. I think I did a good job of trying to detach initially, then things got better and I got my hopes up too quick.

Well - what can be done to help your son? My kids were 17, 18 and 22 when the split happened - definitely it affected them all. Not least of the problems was that so much of OUR energy was going towards each other, that the kids didn't get as much help with the problems they were having at that time, as they would have if we had not been splitting.

So - maybe for you, right now, the solution is to stop focusing on your H and OW - just accept that whatever happens is going to happen and you are not in control of that (nor do you necessarily know what the best outcome will be - for instance, I thought I knew for sure the best outcome would be my H coming to his senses and staying in the marriage - but now that he's been gone 3 1/2 years, I can honestly say it was the best thing for ME that he left). Instead, put your focus onto helping your son grow to manhood. (Also, fyi, at that age boys often butt heads with their dads, even when the relationship is a good one - there's a certain amount of testosterone-fueled head-butting that goes on).

Also, put your focus onto being the best YOU that you can be.

Yes, i am so depressed right now. I need to put the focuse on me. very difficult. I was thinking that we never had a good marriage for a long time. Trouble from the get go. h very driven to do his own thing. Not as family oriented as I wished. Not to say I had no faults and did contribute to the breakdown but I never had my proper place in this marriage. Now he has proven himself to be a liar. That's really killing me.

My girls are 22 and 20. They know about the first incidence with ow. Not about this one. oldest daughter says our family is screwed up. Oldest son 31 doesn't know. He is from my first marriage. Infidelity in that one as well. I believe I don't want to live with H now but I have to wait. Try and get son 18 to finish school and graduate. He wants to go into the army.

I know, the lying is so much worse than the cheating, isn't it?

Now - if your plan is to stay for this year and get S18 through high school - how about making a priority list, a plan for what you're going to work on?

Include:
1) Strategies for helping S18. Does he need tutoring, nutritional support, exercise, a vacation away with you? What do you think will help him the most? What are the best times to chat with him? What can you do to give him more time, attention and support?

2) Self-improvement - no matter WHAT happens with your marriage, you will be happier a year from now if you have done things to help yourself be healthier, stronger, clearer, more competent. What are the areas you need to work on, and what is your plan for achieving your goals?

3) Self-care - this is a very stressful situation you are trying to tolerate. Getting out and having some FUN is important. Also, it can help to have some big goal or project to focus on outside the marriage (when my H first had an affair, I concentrated on training to climb Mount Whitney. When he left years later (after several years of successful reconciliation) I bought a drum kit and learned to play the drums in a rock band. What is there that you dream of doing but have been too scared to try? You've got nothing to lose now!

4) Financial peace - now is the time to start figuring out where you stand financially, and think about contingency plans for your financial security should you end up separating in the future. If there are debts, start practicing frugality and get them paid down. Stash some emergency cash somewhere. If you're not working, consider getting training for a career. If you are working, consider how you might improve your income.

Thanks kml
Suffering yes, the lying is maddening because how can I ever trust him again? I am planning on seeing a lawyer about what legal separation entails.

I talked to sons counselor today. He hates school and does the bare or less minimum. So I have to contact the teachers and get tutoring. I am going to try to stay through the end of this year at least. Your advice is true galing is necessary but hard right now. Not eating or sleeping well. Got a whopping big debt under both names because we got a better deal at my credit union. I will talk to lawyer about it.

My job is with a lady with alzheimers only one day a week and every other sat. The pay is great but being with her makes my depression worse. She is getting more ornery now. My husband is making comments like "oh it would be nice if you got more hours"
My counselor said maybe it's so he doesn't have to pay alot of alimony.

Not sure what I want to do but I don't think I want to caregive anymore. Maybe work at a hardware store cuz I like tools. Pay won't be that great though. supposed to try out for a play this week.

I do have some cash stashed but I could never pay all the bills here.

Well - nobody really expects that you could continue the same lifestyle after a divorce, unless there are a ton of assets to split.

ARE there assets? Or just debts? Is there any equity in your home? Are you in a community property state? Do you have a job outside the home? Do you have work skills? Does your H have a pension? Do either of you have IRAs or 401ks?

Sorry, I missed your previous post.

Yes, he very well may be pushing you to earn more so that he won't owe as much alimony - that's def what my H did.

Have you considered using some of this time to get trained in a skill you could use to make more money? If you like tools, have you considered getting trained in a trade, like tile-setting or such? I used to have a room mate in college who made good money putting up wallpaper.

We have a home,still paying on it, but living in Michigan the market is poor if we were to sell.It's not a big or fancy home. I am thinking about something to do. i do have a legal assistant degree but haven't worked in the field for over 21 years. I have checked into it and there's been a lot of changes. I think I just want to work without deadlines and homework.

The H has a good job. But always worried about being laid off. economy not so hot.

WAS. Seem to all believe that post d they should improve their lifestyle. Lol

I am a total believer in finding off the books work via craigs list. Doing it on your own time and making your own hours. No benefits but maybe stay on your h.

Also I know friends that rent out extra bedroom. It has really helped pay their bills and some trade rent for babysitting services.

I have also found that now I am able to deal with my office job a lot better then I used to. Through this program and alanon I am just able to focus on myself more. Do the best job I can and not take criticism as a personal judgement on. It is actually a big relief.

I appreciate my job more. I am not changing the world or helping anything or using my mind but I make decent money and don't have to work too much so I have time with my kids. I now focus on the good parts of my gig not the sucky parts.

Hang in there

Dear dbrs
My h wanted to ml last night but I just couldn't. I asked him if he had something to tell me. He said no. I asked him if he is calling ow or anything. Wanted to know why I was saying that and I told him it was the way he was asking. I didn't go into specifics but I told him he was acting weird. Anyway he got mad and said "here we go again" I checked this am and he has been calling ow. I am shaking as I am writing because he is a liar. What should I do? I was going to try and hang on for a while longer to get my son out of high school in Dec I hope. But I don't know how to handle Ml. I can't stand this. Still won't go to counselor etc.

told H it was the way he was acting not asking.

Rachael,
I'm very sorry that he has lied to you, but mlcers are great liars and do not think that they will ever get caught. You've called him on his behavior and lying, so you need to step back and focus on you and your son. He's not going to change, if anything, the more you point out the communicating w/ow, the more he will do it, i.e., just like a spoiled brat.

I would be very hesitant to ml w/him at this time. Have you been checked for STDs? You don't know if he's having an EA or a PA w/this ow and I would hate to see you get something that keeps on giving over the years.

BTW, he's not going to go to a counselor because he doesn't think there is a problem w/him. So, you need to put that request on the shelf for now. If you are still seeing someone, continue to go because you need to get your feelings and thoughts out on the table w/someone.

Try to remember this: "The more you push, the harder he is going to pull away and go in the opposite direction".

The most important thing is to take care of yourself and be there for your son. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can say or do to change the path your h is on.
Now about hanging in there for your son. This is something that you will need to figure out. But, please don't do anything when you are upset or angry. You need to be in a calm place to think about what you want to do. If you aren't sure, then do nothing at this time.

Dear snodderly,
Had a talk with my priest this morning. He feels that I need to confront the H with what I know. I am an emotional wreck. This for me is crossing the boundary because I told him no contact and he agreed. I don't know if I can hang on living like this much longer. I don't want to ml now and that is the reason. Breach of trust. My girls could handle this. Even though S has a sometimes stormy relationship with dad don't know how it would be for him.

Snodderly,
That is great advice and something I needed to hear as well. Rachael, as hard as it will be, trust me I know, can you stop snooping? You know what he is doing at this point and snooping is only going to raise your aniexty level.

dear hopeful
yes its hard to stop snooping. It has made me a wreck because he is lying. Now for me, I don't think I can live with this. I have been trying very hard. Now I don't want to ml and I am going to have to tell him why.

Well, if you look at my thread, you will see I somewhat snooped over the weekend and confronted my H and got some lies. I called him out on it and didn't get a denial but didn't get any further explaination. And I didn't ask for one. However, I don't think I have the history that you have.

I've told myself that I need to stop. I've never looked at his phone, just email and then something he had on his computer screen. The sneaking and lying shakes our confidence and we want to snoop more. But in the end, all we are doing is hurting ourselves. I know I am shaking when I snoop, even if I don't find anything, because I know it is wrong, even though I know H is not being 100% honest with me.

As hard as it is, focus on you. Try to find info online about surviving an A, and re-read the MLC and A sections of DR.

I know my h will be angry at me for snooping. But I am pretty unhappy with this going on. It's the same ow not a new one. How do I handle the ml issue?

Maybe wait a little bit so you don't react out of anger and try to gague what is going on, how you feel, etc. Beyond that, I don't really know how I would address it myself.

H not talking to me today. He is at work but I texted and phoned. no answer. probably cuz i asked him about ow.
D 22 can see I'm depressed. Trying to encourage me to go back to school. Didn't get a part in the play but i could work on the set. Thinkin about it. Trying to decide whether or not to tell H we should separate due to him breaking NC with ow. I'm suffering.

Rachael,
Don't call or text him again. He knows you are trying to get in touch w/him. He also knows that you know about the contact w/the ow. He doesn't want to hear anything you have to say about it. Step back from the drama for a while and let the dust settle. It's best to let the dust settle and not discuss serious issues such as separation when you are depressed or angry. You both could say things that you can't take back later. Count to ten, walk around the block, but don't have the discussion about separation until you are calmer.

I'm sorry you didn't get the part in the play, but at least you can work on the set. Who knows...one of the actresses could drop out and you'll be there to step in...

Yes, you are suffering, but you need to pull yourself up straight and hold your head up high and do not allow this stuff to bring you down. You need to be strong...you don't want them to win, especially the ow.

Snodderly
I am having anxiety bad. I took a xanax. i only called about a phone bill. I am in bad shape tonight. I don't know if I can live with this. He wanted to know why I didn't go to excercise told him I was tired. He can tell I am depressed. I can't hide it. Like I said the priest told me to confront him. When I think about the deception it is killing me. How do I get over this?

Ok Rachael -
Take a deep breath. All decisions should be made from a place of strength, not panic.

It's understandable if you feel you can no longer live with the deception. We all have our bottom lines and dealbreakers. BUT - even if that's true, that you have a reached a point where it's no longer tolerable - you want to breathe deep, think hard about your objectives, and then figure out what will get you the best result.

For example - if your goal is to shock him into reality (a dicey proposition, but sometimes successful - you shouldn't undertake it thought unless you're truly prepared for him to leave) - then fine, confront him with your evidence and ask him to pack his bags. Or better yet, greet him at the door with his bags already packed.

OR - more calmly - you could simply state, quietly and calmly, that you know he's still talking to her, and you don't plan to have any more unprotected sex with him because you don't want to catch any diseases from her.

Either way - are you ready to do this? Or do you need to get some financial ducks in a row first? Squirrel away money, visit a lawyer to learn your rights, make copies of all financial info and tax returns?

On the other hand - if your goal is to simply be done with him, if you have decided this is not acceptable behavior - consider whether it would be in your interest to keep your decision to yourself for a while so you can straighten out your financial situation.

Also - DO make sure you are absolutely sure of what's going on. MAke sure you're not jumping to the wrong conclusion (it sounds like you've got good evidence, but just be sure).

What kml said ^^^^^^^^ .

T^2

I had to talk to him this morning. He didn't have to work. i felt like I would have to go to the emergency room with this anxiety and torment if I held it in. I told him i was suffering with terrible anxiety and he asked if I talked to anyone. I told him I had to speak to him. I told him that I knew he was talking to her and he promised me not to.

He got very angry that I snooped but I kept to the issue of deception and lies. He claims they are now just friends and she has a boyfriend. That may be true but how do I know? He just kept saying "I can't believe you are doing this" I came back with "how could you do this when you promised not to?" "how can you look me and the kids in the face?" He had promised no more contact. He said he did NC for awhile then when he saw her they started talking. Thinks there is nothing wrong with that. Then when I told him, if that was so why hide it? He said because he knew I would react like this.

I told him this is a deal breaker for me. I cannot live with this! Told him he is doing nothing to save this marriage. He is so unrepentant, so defensive. So he wanted to know if I wanted to end the marriage. I said maybe we need to separate. I said if he wanted to be friends with her I'm done.

Went out to breakfast where I hardly ate. but we did talk about our marriage and the past. I was calm and so was he. He said he thought about separation and I asked why he didn't do that. Said he wasn't sure he wanted to. But I am not so sure. h said he may need a break and is too close to the situation at home. (not home that much) Compared our marriage to others and said we weren't like that. I told him i felt he didn't love me like those other h's loved their wives. We talked about why he got into the affair in the first place. Because I threatened divorce after a bad fight. I told him many times I asked to go to counseling and he wouldn't. I told him I felt just as bad as he did about our marriage but I didn't have the affair.

H won't go to speak with priest because he knows morally, he'll be called on the carpet. H wants to take a week for us to decide what to do. As I sit here I just don't know how he can rebuild trust for me. i don't think he wants to open all passwords and even so if he wants to keep in contact with OW he could do it and keep lying.

I am thinking that separation for now is what I may want. I don't trust h anymore. I think maybe what is hard for h is he will be exposed and have to tell his mom and dreads it. Says he's worried bout what my dad will think too. I think my dad can handle it. His mom? It will be pretty hard for her.

Hi Rachael,

Quote:

He had promised no more contact. He said he did NC for awhile then when he saw her they started talking. Thinks there is nothing wrong with that.

Nowhere have I read or heard where "just friends" with the OP is "okay" after the end of A. Nowhere.

It is very common, almost guaranteed, for one or the other affair partner to try and contact the other after NC. I know a couple of my W's OMs are still trying to pull her back in...

You did what you needed to do and I support you. Very telling H's responses were. I reckon he may not like the bed he made by starting contact again...

Stay strong!

T^2

Thanks t
So grateful for you and others on this site. God Bless you all.

Just found (without snooping) hotel soap and shampoo in his cars cupholder. We had to switch cars for him to use our van. H will probably have an excuse for that. I don't believe he just has a friendship with OW anyhow. I think I know what I want to do. For sure a separation. Called an attorney who was very helpful over the phone.

Rachel55 I know how hard it must be to know that truth and as you have stated listening to the lies is sometime harder.

I do know that the truth coming out will bring a resolution closer. At some point he will need to look at himself

Had a couple talks with h about my leaning toward separation. Thats what I have decided yet I'm scared he won't go. h wanted to give it til the end of the week. In talking with him he says he is messed up but no apology for talking to ow. Said I was wrong to snoop and then said it was wrong for him to talk to her. I think it's more than talking.No remorse that I can see. Doesn't seem upset that I want to separate. He talked about the cost. But I don't want to be in the same bed now.

I'm scared. Why the hell am I scared? I told my girls because they know about the A. They will be fine. talked about marriage problems and H isn't going to budge on changing how he lives sort of independant of us.

Last night I told my h I wanted a separation. I can't live with the lies. He told me the ow has a boyfriend, that he only made a few calls. I told him there were several. Then he said "Well she might lose her job and I had to help her figure out something." No apologies,just excuses. I said to h that I believe nothing he says.

I told him I didn't want to sleep with him and he could sleep somewhere else or I would. Wanted me to at least sleep in the same room cuz it's a big bed. at first I said okay but I feel like h is always manipulating and talking me into things so I just slept with my daughter in her room.

I told him I can't eat. I'm a mess. He said "well, I'm going through a bad time too. This is hard for me too. I hate my life and my job" H also said so you're going to treat me like your ex? who wanted back into the marriage after an affair and was still telling lies about going to school. H likes to put guilt trips on people. But yeah, I guess something has snapped in me. Right now I don't want him. Don't want to live with him. Thinkin I want out. Afraid he's going to guilt me into staying.

H said he Might go talk to priest. He thinks he can be more polite which was big problem and he argued that he shouldn't have to say please and thankyou for things that had to be done like telling me I must get the mail out because he was late with bills. Or telling me I can make the decisions when I have a real job and pay the bills. Got told it bugged him that I laugh at my own jokes. leaving the house and not telling anyone.

I meant he would leave the house and not tell anyone.

H asked me if he had to give up some of the things he liked because I told him he was too busy. I told him he doesn't have to give up anything. I'm just not on top of the list. Haven't felt that way for a very long time. Now I am venting here and you are hearing my side. I started arguements, i tried to get my way I could be a real pistol. Hot headed (both of us). I made him feel unappreciated. We both did that. H did say what can I do and i said as far as trust? I told him I don't know. I guess I don't feel like trying right now (I didn't tell him that).

Our families also noted tension between us. I complained to my mother in law sometimes. H says alot. I did complain to people alot about him. Friends, family. I've been unhappy for a long time. Maybe him too. there is alot of competition between us. Challenging each other on what each other says alot. very contentious relationship. H wanted to know where he would go if we separated. I don't know. I don't know what he thinks will change by waiting a few days. I feel alot of guilt and sadness. Just in a very bad place now.

H texted me alot today. Talks about how stressed he is. Isn't that telling that he keeps the focus on himself like that? If I got caught contacting my op I would be sorry and begging for forgiveness not talking about how hard it is for me. What does anyone make of that?

Rachael55,

If your H is in MLC get used to it. It's all about them.

That's why we tell you to take care of yourself and put your focus on where it will do the most good and that's you.

It sounds like you've identified some areas that you could work on in yourself. These things that may need changing are for you. Do not do them to try and save the M but because it's something you want for yourself. That way the changes stick.

It will be beneficial to be the best you whether your marriage is saved or not.

Hey
I got some gumpshun tonight! H was all depressed and wanted to talk. I told him trust is paramount. Since this second betrayal I can't handle it. I told him he promised no contact and broke it. He said we had other problems to talk about never mind the ow. Ha! I said this marriage has to be fixed one thing at a time and first and foremost is TRUST! I found out tonight that not only did he make calls but they had coffee. And H said what's wrong with that? Of course he didn't tell me because look how upset I get. H says he can't talk to me when I get that way. Boy you know that just pissed me off. Then he said I can't believe you are gonna keep on that. You are not listening to me I got alot goin on. Yadda, Yadda. I kept to the issue while he kept trying to dodge the elephant in the room.

I told him he has no remorse. He says he does. NOPe. Doesn't show any to me and is defiant and defends his contact with ow as if it's innocent. Last friday he said he was just friends with her and there's nothing wrong with that. well now he says that he was wrong but it was a kneejerk reaction to my snooping.

I asked him if he thought it was wrong to contact her after he promised me he wouldn't he said something like well yea. (not exactly his words) I read him something I found from a web site about remorse and what he should be doing if he wants to work on the relationship. He is doing nothing. I told him if he wants a friendship with her he may have it and then I am done. He can pack up and go. I told him he should be giving me passwords, letting me know where he is, getting counseling etc.

I said maybe you don't want to leave because you don't want to be alone. Then he said well according to you I have the ow. So that's not it. I said well then maybe shame cuz your mom would find out. H says no if I didn't want to be here I would be gone. So I said You want me? You do the work. You do something to regain trust. I have worked and worked and got nothing. Think about it. Goodnight. So I am sleeping in D's room. Let him ruminate.

Dr james dobson says sometimes a crisis must be forced. It's comin to that. He needs to suffer some consequences like being on his own.

What do you do when H just goes around in circles? Not remorseful about actions but wants to stay in the house. Wants me in our bed I think for comfort and seems to want to brush things under the rug. I keep harping on trust because it gnaws at me. H wants me to drop it. Wants to go away for the weekend. I told him I want him to go to counseling and go talk to a priest. H finally said he would but I can't be in same bedroom now. Then h said things would probably be better if he was dead. he has said this before and I would get all upset but I think its to guilt me so I change my mind. So I just said that wouldn't solve things. We sat in the living room and watched tv and h went to bed and I went to my d's room. I feel a little conflicted about what to do at times and then sometimes I want him out.

Rachael,
The one thing that I would do is stop talking to him about it. It's very evident that he's not ready to face up to what he's done and the more you talk about it, the more he's going to want to shove it very hard under the rug. He's like a stubborn child who is going to show "mom" that he's the stronger of the two and will stand firm on his beliefs for now.

He's telling you what you want to hear about going to the counselor and the priest just to get you off of his back. Please stop "harping" on trust, etc. The more you push, the harder he's going to pull away.

You have to do what you need to do for yourself, i.e., sleeping in another bedroom, etc. You have to take care of yourself and allow God to work on your man...you can't make him do anything and you have no control over him. You are not his mother and you don't want him to look at you that way.

Please, please stop talking to him about all of this. He's not ready to do so. You have to keep the focus on YOU and allow God to work on him.

ok Snodderly
I have a question. If I am frustrated by lack of changes and rug sweeping how long do I wait? I know I don't want the former marriage. I feel that maybe he should leave and sort things out on his own more and more and then I have a bit of doubt.
So do nothing right?

You got that right about not being able to control him. I feel sort of helpless in the same house with him acting like this. Sleeping in a different room is how I am coping with some of this.

Thanks for your advice.

If you honestly want to separate, then maybe it's time to do so, but I don't think you really do. I think you are having a "knee jerk" reaction right now to what you've discovered. If I were in your shoes, I would step back a bit and do nothing more in the way of discussions with him.

You might want to read hrm's threads. They might help you a bit.

Hi Rachael,

I agree with all Snodderly said...You have done what you needed to do...From what you have described in H's actions and words, whether its pride, embarrassment or whatever, he isn't ready. Also, about your remorse and tears expectations, maybe you will not get those. Some people just do not emote that way, though the remorse IS there...when W has apologized to me for things recently, she wasn't all emotional and teary, which at first I did not like...but then I thought about her standard "overly emotional" ways, and her HPD/BPD traits, and thought..."hmm, maybe if she WAS very emotional and such, it could just be HPD/BPD hoovering, and I wouldn't/shouldn't trust it...maybe, MAYBE, because it was serious, yet not all emotional...MAYbe it is actually thought out and more sincere..." Could you look beyond and maybe see if the remorse is there, just shielded or something that isn't obvious? -- Make sense?

I wouldn't worry about making any major decisions right now...You stood up for yourself and stood up to him...let H stew in his own mess for awhile, let him consider the implications (telling mom, moving out, etc) of the reality you laid out. Know what I mean?

Hang in there!

T^2

How about this Rachael, pulling from my own sitch...W doesn't "want to ever hear" that she flaunted her online activities and OM's...she knows she did, I know she did...and she knows that is cruel, and not the kind of person she sees herself as...she is embarrassed or mad at herself for being so mean and hurtful(maybe? or something)...she doesn't want to or can't face that side of herself right now, if ever...so she doesn't want to be reminded. If I were to persist in getting the confession and that I am right, how would it help the sitch? How would it help ME? What would I gain from it aside from being "right" and "justified"?? Maybe later, if an R happens, it will eventually be worked through... if we separate, then what does it matter?

hope that helps some

T^2

okay guys
Snodderly and t you are right. I guess i don't want that separation in my heart of hearts.I feel a bit better tonight. H is out sailing with buddies. For now I will keep to daughters room at night. So h knows i mean business.

It's not just about being right it's about him actually doing something to regain trust. H is a wet dishrag about doing anything at all right now. Yes it's probably that mlc but I always kinda let him have his way and now that I have stood up to him it has made me feel better. I guess I had to get to the end of my rope and not be afraid anymore.

The ball's in his court and I will wait and see if h wants to do something now that the faithful hound dog (me) has given him a warning growl. He did say in a text today "know this, I still love you" What kind of love? ya got me.

P.s.Thanks Snodderly and T, your advice does help and I do appreciate it. I'm too emotional! But I hear ya.

Hello
Been awhile since I've posted. Things are still not great. My husband has been having fits of explosive anger. The last one was over not finding a tv remote which was on the couch where he left it. I threatened to spend thanksgiving somewhere else and talked to my therapist who said I should give him a pass in the interest of not having him back out of therapy.

My son doesn't try his best because he hates school. He is planning on going into the service so I will be happy if he graduates. My husband has had strife with s because of school and my son borrows things without asking and loses them or breaks them. But my husband gets like a demon with his temper. He threatened to kick him out for borrowing his jacket without asking (he did it once before) and 2 weeks ago blew up at s
over his grades and my son left for a week.

I had made a counselling appt. for tonight and my h backed out saying he had an astronomy club meeting. I looked it up and there is no meeting. I wonder if I should mention it or not. Is that considered snooping? I thought I would ask him how his meeting went and see what he says.

H is making efforts to spend time with me but when we are together he acts bored or distracted and I caught him looking at another woman. I said something like "why do you keep looking over there?" and he simply got mad and said "I always look around" H is annoyed at me frequently when I ask questions or even talk. I have told him I don't want to live like this and he just says "it's not just you" No it's with my son and sometimes my daughters as well. My friend, whom I have confided in thinks maybe he wants me to finally tell him to get out but he would still look like a heel. Also his mom and brother know nothing about his infidelity to me and they would have to know. H may or may not care if they do.

Should I mention that I know he is lying if he says he went to a meeting or let it be for now? I figure if he keeps this behavior up I will ask him to leave but after christmas. Then his mom will have to know but I won't ruin christmas.

Rachael, I'm sorry to hear about what's going on. But in reading this, my first thought is that only you can know when you've had enough and need things to be different. Only you know when you're ready to face that. I don't think anyone can say one way or another what you should do exactly, but I do think you'll know when you get there.

Peace,
AJ

Does anyone have stories of how a husband has turned around? I mean one who is verbally mean at times, non affectionate even when the wife has requested it many times, and selfish who actually changed? I pray for my h everyday for respect, love and attention. He hurts me time and time again even though he wants to "work on the marriage" He never was super affectionate and selfish. Some days I get depressed wishing he were different and feeling trapped in a bad marriage. The mlc and affair made things worse. H rarely apologizes for his behavior which makes it worse.

Rachael,
Your h is still very much in anger/replay stage of mlc and believe it or not, he's going to have period of anger for quite some time.

My advice, and please listen to what I'm saying...stop asking him to be affectionate w/you...this makes him extremely angry and the guilt of not being there for you is creating the anger.

His behavior is not "working on the marriage". The words working on a marriage is mlc lingo for getting you to back off. He told you what you wanted to hear.

When he gets verbally mean, walk away and go into another room. Change the subject and watch how he becomes a bit confused and will actually stop the bs.

Continue to pray for him, but you need to step back, give him so much room that he'll choke on it and leave him be. The more you try to get him to be affectionate and return to the marriage as a husband, the more he's going to pull away and lash out at you. Why? Because you are shoving him up against the wall and he's coming out swinging. Leave him in the ring fighting w/himself, i.e., give him absolutely no excuse/justification for what he's doing.

Now, there are a few success stories and I believe they are posted somewhere on the forum. I'll look for them, but I can honestly tell you that many of them have had issues just as you have had and they had to step back, detach, live their lives as if the mlcer were never coming back. The anger, lack of affection, etc., are all part of the mlc. Again, your h is no where near being finished w/his crisis. The words "working on the marriage" is a bunch of bs that your mlcer is telling you. I heard the exact same thing and the only one working on my marriage was me...just like you are trying to do.

Start focusing on you and what you can do to make things better for yourself. Leave your man alone to deal w/his issues.

Here's the thread with some of the success stories. The thread is at the top of the mlc forum. Please keep in mind that many who turn things around don't come back to post as piecing is very difficult and requires a lot of patience and time.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2277089&page=1

Thanks Snodderly
H yelled and yelled about not finding a remote changer the day before thanksgiving, and banged on the kids doors to interrogate them. I usually get up and try to frantically find whatever he's yelling about. This time I did not. Later I found it on the couch where it was under an envelope. I was mad and said I would not go to his moms but after consulting with my counselor he said I should give him a pass and let him know I am giving him a pass. So I did but he gave no apology for terrible tantrum he had. Then on Thanksgiving H was worried about his health (eyes bugging him) and I hugged him practically all night because he wanted to and I feel I need affection. But 2 nights later he was irritated by little things I say. I told him "remember thursday when I comforted you?" yes he did. I said that was loving but it's not loving when you are irritated at me for just being me. Then I dropped it and he said nothing.

This week I have been pleasant but I have not hugged or kissed him. I went through depression yesterday and some today. I feel like I am never going to have the respect and love I want from him. But I figure I will hang in there for awhile longer and keep praying. thanks for the link to the success stories. Hope I will be one.

You did right in telling him what he did wrong and the consequences of his actions. Now you have to get to the point where he will "willingly" give you affection. Pull back a bit and see if he follows.

I have been pulling back this week. Before I would hug him or tell him I love him. H has gone to a couple of counselling sessions. He is supposed to go next week. Yes I hope he will want to give me affection. I only get it when he is anxious or wants to be intimate. But that has been going on for a good deal of our marriage. It's just that I've never been happy with that and now I have made that clear. I'll see what he does.

Rachael,
From what you posted in response to Mr. Bond's posting, I have this strange feeling that your h looks to you as a "mother figure". He seeks you out only when he is anxious or wants to be intimate, i.e., in other words for comfort. He needs to look at you as his wife, companion and mother of his children. He needs to learn to respect you for who you are. I do agree w/Mr. Bond that you need to pull back and allow him to come to you.

Geez, If that's true it's creepy. How on earth do I get him to see me as his wife then? I do I get his respect? He does not respect me and has not for some time. When I do things I am proud of like fixing plumbing,instead of being proud,he gets mad over money spent or will not say anything. Others complement me for things but he will not. He is still being non physical. I long to hold him and get affection but I am holding back and still talking and being pleasant.

Rachael,
One of the things that I see here that he doesn't respect you or your capabilities. You have to change the way you interact w/him. First, don't beg for affection or his attention. Go about your business and just leave him alone. Second, this is going to be the hardest one for you...when he comes to you all anxious, etc., tell him you are sorry he feels that way and go on about your business. He needs to learn that you have needs as well and it is a two way street. Take back you respect. You are not a possession that he takes out and gives attention only when he feels that he needs a fix.

As you continue to make repairs, do not allow him to bring you down. You are accomplishing things that he should have done or be doing. For whatever reason, he is withholding himself from you and punishing you for some wrong that he thinks you have done. Is he passive-aggressive?

Continue to distance yourself from him and make a life for yourself.

Yes he can be passive aggressive. H also somewhat controlling. Has been bugging me to get contacts but the doctor advised against it and h won't accept it. So I took off my glasses at a restaurant and h was looking around the room. Seemed to me he was looking at a woman behind me several times but denied it. Also, doesn't always take my feelings into consideration if he disagrees with me. So if he wants to hold me in bed should I do it? Should I say something about it being a two way street?

He really does have issues, doesn't he? If your doctor has advised getting contacts, then listen to your doctor. Your h sounds like he's trying to "change" you. I wonder if the person he's interested in wears contacts or maybe doesn't wear them and he's trying to "model" you into a copycat version of her.

You do realize that he's most likely going to continue to want to change you into his dream woman. You'll eventually get tired of being pretezled by him and he still won't be happy w/the new and improved woman he's made you into.

You have to be the one to determine if you are willing to allow him to hold you. I, personally, wouldn't allow it, especially if he's been acting like a total @ss towards me and treating me like a possession and not a human being. You deserve better than the crumbs he tosses you when he wants you to hold him and reassure him w/your hugs, etc.

One of the ways to get your self respect back is to set boundaries and those boundaries should include what type of behavior you will or will not allow and you need to stick w/them no matter what type of crap he throws at you. You deserve to be treated better than the way he's been treating you.

He's definitely got something going on w/that passive aggressive behavior and the temper tantrums. He may be having some real issues emotionally and can't control that anger. Guilt must be eating him up and yes, mlcers can get really nasty. I worry about you being around him when he's that way.

Take care of yourself.

He has not been physically abusive. I told him I am not getting contacts. I don't fit into his box regarding what a "wife" should be and neither do the kids. I believe that irks him. I feel he is somewhat jealous when I fix things (which I enjoy and he does not do) then I get the threats about money or when I did some molding in the bathroom he said we'd have to remove it incase of a flood.(I told him he better not and he didn't) I wanted him to be proud not mad. I think I will tell him if he wants to hug me only at night in bed that it's got to be more than just things his way. It's like being used.

Rachael,
It's not "like being used"...you are being used. He's playing the "emotional" abuse card w/you and that's part of the passive aggressive personality, as well as a mix of mlc.

You should be very proud of what you accomplish and do not allow him to take you down. He sounds so much like my xh who was very passive aggressive and a nasty mlcer.

Hang in there.

I have to tell you Rachael, that after reading these posts, my first thought is that Snodderly is right - he's trying to change you. I also agree that it doesn't work well. You could change and change and change... in the end you'll only not recognize yourself and he'll still be unhappy most likely.

My second thought: Do you remember when you were dating? Do you remember how your attitude was then? What you would or would not put up with (so to speak)? I can't think of a reason to be different about it now.

I tried the path of being changed. I figured out it didn't matter, but in the end it did make me laugh. Out loud and loudly. I remember that day as I was walking into work and thought, "damn. I'm damn near perfect according to her." My co-workers thought I had lost it

She even tried to dress me differently (like the boyfriends I guessed.) That was years ago now, but I recall that moment like it was yesterday.

There was nothing for me to change in that regard. Very little overall, but there were some I wanted to change and did. Only one of the things were what she communicated when it was all said and done. She still wasn't (and isn't from the looks of it) happy. Know why? Because it wasn't about me just like it isn't about you.

Set real and honest boundaries. If he's going to come back to the marriage, he has to respect you and the boundaries and has to WANT to come back. Being you and being authentic is the best shot at that and is the best shot at your own happiness. I've seen it dozens of times with many couples, and I've never seen it work any differently.

If that helps.

Be you, be authentic, and let him do his part and make his own choices. Don't settle for anything else at any time, Rachael. It's important in the long run and the short term is not very important when all is said and done.

Hope that helps,
AJ

Rachael,
I want to share something w/you about changes. When my xh was living at home the last 7 months of his being under our roof, he would mention various things that he wanted me to change. Here's one that I still laugh about today. He wanted me to be at the door and wave to him as he left for work. As he walked by me, he wanted me to give him a little peck on the check. This was to be done every morning he was leaving for work. He left for work at 5:00 a.m. every other day and this included weekends. So, not knowing what the h@ck I was dealing with. I did it. This pretzeling last exactly 3 days and he completely ignored the changes I had made for him. He moved on to other things.

His final weekend at home, he stated several times that nothing had changed and when I asked him what he wanted changed, he couldn't tell me. It's about them and what they are going through. They are the ones changing ever 10 seconds and we could pretzel all night long and it will never be enough or they'll come up w/something new. It is important that YOU are happy with YOU. Don't make changes unless you know that they are ones that YOU really need to make.

On another note, you need to start a new thread. I believe you've gone over the 100 posting mark for this one and someone will be along to remind you soon.

Thanks for the advice. Now last light I avoided being around husband and went to bed before him. When he came to bed he wanted to talk about the company christmas party. I had told him I didn't want to go because ow would probably be there. He said he knew that but he got the tickets because he wants me to get over this.He had been telling me for awhile that she had a serious boyfriend. That may be true because I went somewhere where I knew she would be and there was a man with her.

He told me that he is not talking to, or seeing her. But that he did email her at work to see if she and her boyfriend were going and of course they are. He told me that he told her that he does not want to see or talk to her. Now that may be possible because there are about 1500 people attending this thing at a big fancy hotel. He also wants us to stay overnight. At first I was pissed but my DB coach has told me to go and hold my head up high. I am the wife. So last night I told him I would think about it and get back to him. Perhaps the coach was right because I told my husband if I saw her I could pull her aside and go off on her and he knows it. He said If he was seeing her still he wouldn't have told me all this. Could be right. I am not getting contacts to please him. I know it would make no difference.

Snodderly, he doesn't know what he wants and it seems he can't give me what I want because he says he still goes through numb feelings. Therefore I need to do as everyone advises and create distance and detach but be polite. Hard sometimes to detach. I am in the process of finding a job to get me out as well.

Anyone tell me how to create a new thread? I forgot how.

Go to the top of this forum and hit "new topic". You will need to come up with a subject line.

I would go to the party and have fun. Hold your head up high, back straight and put a smile on your face and just be yourself. There will be so many people there, that the ow and her boyfriend will be nothing but gnats.

As for him still feeling numb...that's the depression talking.

A job would be a nice way to get out of the house and become even more independent and have money of your own. It's a nice way to meet people and a change of scenery. Good luck!

It's amazing how often I agree with Snodderly or can totally relate. I have similar stories with my ex. I'm a slower learner than some and it wasn't until long afterwards that I could really see just how messed up she is/was. I can tell you that years later, I see little change from that see-saw, roiling mass of anger and emotion. The facade is back to some degree, but I know too much at this point

I come back to these threads hoping to point that kind of stuff out to people going through what I (and others) had. Because if I knew then, what I know now, I would have done some things differently. Changes for her would be one of them. I would have done far less of them if I had truly "gotten it" then like I do now.

I would (and did similar) go to the party. I also wouldn't talk to the OW. She is not the problem. She is a symptom only. Besides, if you are gracious and smile a lot, it makes 'em nervous and makes you the heroine

I'll look forward to the new thread!

AJ

Thanks for your encouragement and support. Just what I need. I told my husband I would go and I told him to thank me for being so gracious

. Thank God this site exists!

Hi Rachael,

I want to echo what snodderly and AJ said about the changes. I'm not D yet but expect to be a month from tomorrow.

I did all the changes H requested. Some I wanted for myself and am happy with.

This summer my H told me he liked me just the way I was (with changes). There isn't a thing he'd want different about me.

He's pursuing D anyway. It really is all about them not us. Not that there isn't some updating we all can do

It's so nice to tell your H he is gracious. I think you are the one that is gracious

Go to the party and remember to have fun.

If you want to restore your marriage you have to forgive him somehow and start a new happy relationship