Wow! I wrote my first and only topic on this website 2 years ago. I have now been divorced 7 months and it has been crazy. He would not divorce me but would not come back. I had to push the divorce even though I did not want it. But I needed to since all through this he has been mean and depressed. He also has had OWomen. Once I found out about the first OW which was about a year and a half after he left I began dating. When he found out he had me followed and just about went crazy. I think he thought I was going to wait around until he figured out what he wanted.
This is my issue. Now my X is coming around. He tells me he now realizes how much I really did love him and how miserable he is. He is truly a mess and knows he needs help. He said he is going to counseling and texts me every few days about how he never appreciated me but that he always loved me and always will. He has texted these type of messages throughout the past two years but now they are much more consistent and he has even called to tell me.
I feel like he is in the Acceptance stage and I don't know what to do. He seems almost childlike and is looking to me for help and love and support. Today he texted that he will never find anyone to replace me. I then texted back.....its sad you even wanted to replace me. He then went back into defense mode and said I made mistakes in the marriage!
Its like he wants me yet doesn't know what he wants or is extremely afraid to be vulnerable. i think my family and friends would kill me if I ever even considered taking him back after some of the things he has done and said. (He is textbook MLC). Yet I don't want to say or do anything to harm him if he is trying to come out of this. A part of me still loves him very much!
If anyone can offer advise I would deeply appreciate it!!!!
Wow! I wrote my first and only topic on this website 2 years ago. I have now been divorced 7 months and it has been crazy. He would not divorce me but would not come back. I had to push the divorce even though I did not want it. But I needed to since all through this he has been mean and depressed. He also has had OWomen. Once I found out about the first OW which was about a year and a half after he left I began dating. When he found out he had me followed and just about went crazy. I think he thought I was going to wait around until he figured out what he wanted.
This is my issue. Now my X is coming around. He tells me he now realizes how much I really did love him and how miserable he is. He is truly a mess and knows he needs help. He said he is going to counseling and texts me every few days about how he never appreciated me but that he always loved me and always will. He has texted these type of messages throughout the past two years but now they are much more consistent and he has even called to tell me.
so the pursuit is not new but more often? And what kind of life have you created for yourself in the meantime?
How has HE changed since the divorce
Whats different about YOU and how you interact now?
I feel like he is in the Acceptance stage and I don't know what to do.
why must you Do anything? isn't it up to him to decide what he wants and you decide what you want and IF those two wants are reconcilable? IF they are, you would explore the possibility of piecing together, slowly.
He seems almost childlike and is looking to me for help and love and support. Today he texted that he will never find anyone to replace me.
so is he desparate? Do you find that attractive?
I then texted back.....its sad you even wanted to replace me.
why did you say this?
He then went back into defense mode and said I made mistakes in the marriage!
You both sound as if you will repeat old behaviors if you are together b/c it is a lot like you used to handle things, isn't it? Maybe you are not a great match at this point. You both lack tools for making it work but that means you did not get them while married OR after...
have you seen a T or IC since all this happened? May I assume he has not?
IF not, why would things be better now than before?
Its like he wants me yet doesn't know what he wants or is extremely afraid to be vulnerable. i think my family and friends would kill me if I ever even considered taking him back after some of the things he has done and said. (He is textbook MLC). Yet I don't want to say or do anything to harm him if he is trying to come out of this. A part of me still loves him very much!
If anyone can offer advise I would deeply appreciate it!!!!
I feel that it is crystal clear you both need to change and do a lot more work on yourselves.
IF the time comes when your family sees you in a new light, in which you have become content as a woman, inwardly and outwardly, and you are happy and at peace
and they then see your x h in a place of growth and change, (which is he is not anywhere near yet, b/c he sent out a probe to you, and the minute you made it a tiny bit hard for him, he attacked...)
the ultimate question is---
how would marriage to you now be better or different?
And how would marriage to HIm be better of different?
Doesn't it seem that you'd be reverting to old habits fast - given how quickly you challenged him (to make it harder on him) and then he reverted?
It's a dance you both still do. Learn a new one.
But if your family did see real growth and change on both sides,
imo, most people would be glad to see redemption and forgiveness and would feel compassion.
Hi Sydney,
MLCers often exhibit unpredictable behavior that gets the LBS confused or emotionally involved. I think in many ways, we all still love the person that we married. The question is, are they the still that person... After everything that we have been through ... are we ?
Someone will be along shortly to give you some more insight than I would dare offer. I just wanted to tell you to keep posting, you have come to the right place...
GOOD LUCK !
*Ever*
I'm sure others who have been in this stage themselves will be along to help but I just happened to come by and read this. My XH is only about 18 months into his rel. with OW and we're divorced, and he's in major replay. With that said, I know from reading others' posts here that there are some things I could suggest.
One is the whole "actions speak louder than words", and the fact that he is going to counseling is an action--can you trust him to believe he IS going or is he just saying he's going or will go? The "almost childlike" and "looking to you for help" is probably somewhat typical, but you're not the person who should be helping him figure himself out. If you fall into the trap of helping him, you will make him codependent on you (and you on him), and then it puts you into this vortex where if anything goes wrong, you are going to get blamed. See how in a way it already happened? You said that it was sad he wanted to replace you and he went back into blaming you for the past.
This is the kind of conversation that should be taking place in the context of marriage counseling sessions--where you do address your issues of the past but in a controlled environment where a 3rd party is there to keep you both from going into the blame game and to focus on whether you can rebuild something now or not.
I think you need to keep up whatever level of detachment you had before. If you had an independent life, keep it that way. You listen when he talks, of course, but I think you need to remain very detached. Acceptance is a long process, and he has MUCH work to do on himself. You can't be the one who is responsible for his recovery or lack thereof, and that's the one that that pops out to me above, that you sound a little like he's trying to put you into that role.
You also need to ask yourself if you want him back. A part of you still loves him. What about the other part? After all this time, is he still someone you want in your life? If so, what has to happen in HIS behavior for you to accept him?
Thank you so much for your response. I think I might have given the wrong impression. I have dated and met some wonderful men. In fact I am dating a wonderful man right now. And when I am around him I realize I could have a relationship I have always wanted. So while part of me would love to have my family back together (if he were to get help) another part wants to start new with someone else!
And through this process I feel I have grown quite a bit. I feel learning about yourself when you go through such a process is almost certain unless maybe you are a narcissist. This has been hell and I wanted to gain something from this experience. I had to grieve over the mistakes I had made and pray that in the future I will not do the same. I know I still have more growth and have been working with a T the entire time.
And my XH has just started seeing someone. And I know he definitely is not in a place to be in a relationship. He needs to heal!
I am very codependent (something I am working on) and maybe that is what is coming out in me now. As I watch him in his misery I believe he does not want to be there. I don't think he ever wanted to be there but hasn't known the way out......he was in pain and tried women, partying, buying and blaming to make himself feel better. None of it worked. He is reaching out now for help. And I do believe he loves me in his own dysfunctional way.
He reminds me of a scared child and the part of me that loves him wants to help him out of the quagmire he has gotten into. I don't want to rescue him.....I don't even know how. But I also don't want to do things that could hurt his growth. He seems so vulnerable.
I don't know if this makes any sense!!! I am not sure I completely understand. I have never been here before.
That's all it boils down to. What do YOU want?
What is he willing to do? Is he willing to do the hard work? What has he done so far. Lip service without action is just that...lip service.
When I said my xh just started seeing someone I meant a therapist! I don't know if he is dating anyone right now or not! He has said he isn't but he told me that when he was with the OW! He does not know I am dating and hasn't even asked.
So are you willing to give up the new guy to give it a go with your XH?
Well, the fact that he is seeing a therapist is a good start. Don't hitch your star to his wagon though just yet. Therapy takes time and effort, he will find out many things about himself if he really commits to working on himself.
Keep living as you are until such time that his actions show that he is really ready and willing to be in a relationship with you exclusively. This of course, is contingent upon if you want him back and both of you are willing to do the work to ... make it work.
Right now, he is just feeling things out. This is normal. You have to maintain your boundaries and life if there is ever to be any semblance of a new relationship between the two of you.
GOOD LUCK !
From what you've posted, neither of you are in a position to be anything other than friends.
This is his journey and as he is seeing a therapist, then he is likely getting the help he needs.
IMHO, be his friend, at best. That's all you can do. Support him in his journey as you would support any friend, and do not do any of his work for him. No one learns to fish if we give them their fish.
I hate to be a pest and I deeply appreciate all of you responding!!! Do any of you have advice on how I handle the comments he makes about loving me or how he made a mistake or when he goes into how depressed he is or when he wants to talk on the phone??????
A small part of me wants to say........are you kidding, you have hurt me so bad then lay into him about what he has done to me like my comment back to him about not being able to replace me. But what good does that do! I truly feel like he is in a bad place and has been for the past three years. We spoke on the phone a few days ago and he seemed desparate to get out of the pain he is in.
This is where we are now and I always tell me daughter to be a part of the solution not a part of the problem! If he is wanting to heal it would be best for all involved, whether or not we get back together, for me not to add to his problem. Again, not rescue but also not hurt.
I know some of you have said to be more like a friend but some of his comments are very intimate!
Do you have to say anything? Maybe he need silence to really figure out what he is saying. Silence is a powerful tool.
I will shut up now.
Ahhh. Now I see. So my X almost always makes intimate or sexually related remarks when he sees me. Infuriates me. Confuses me sometimes too. He has told me that he wants to lie in bed naked with me, that if he saw me at a party he would hit on me and try to pick me up.
I tell you this not to take focus off of your question but to show you that the behavior is rather symptomatic...
With that said I usually say something like "thanks for sharing" which acknowledges their feelings but does not affirm or deny anything else. You can ask him why he is saying those things.
Sydney, it is really, really important for you to first, work through what appears to be latent anger for your husband.
It's different if you were "piecing" and going to couples counseling. You aren't. Neither of you are in a position to have anything other than a friendship R at this time.
It sounds like he's working things out and is very confused about what he wants and if you get involved, you are cheating on your BF and enabling him to cheat on his GF.
He needs to go through this and he needs to work this out for himself, with the help of the therapist. If anything, let him know that intimate conversations with him are making you uncomfortable. Set boundaries with your conversations with him. Let him know that if he crosses those boundaries, you will hang up, or whatever consequences you set.
You need to know what you want (or what you are open to; and what you are prepared to risk). But he could just be working things out in his own head, confiding in you, and then you take the bait, leave your BF and find out that he just wanted to get things off his chest and doesn't want any new R with you.
what kaffe diem said ^^^^
if you and your h are somehow destined to be together, it's not like this.
He's in no position to be in a mature r and that is clear. Your desire to rescue him is something to discuss with your t and see if it's co-dependence
or just wanting him in a postion where he does not have the power and you do.
If your h gets the help he needs and you become someome who can stand on her own feet (and not someone who gets so thrown by his comments and loneliness)
then he can call you in a year. I hate to see a good man, ie the man you are now seeing, be discarded
b/c your ex is ready for round two
but forgot to change or repair himself. As he is, he is bound to repeat his mistakes.
And you have a lot to work through that HE does not want to hear.
How can you realistically think that would work in the long run?
I believe people can change -yes I do- but your h is not there by a long shot -
and in some ways neither are you. Hang in there, tell him to keep seeing the t and call you next year and go explore the OM relationship
and see what a mature loving r looks like, without an OW....
Hi, we are none of us perfect here - and most of us are blundering about doing the best we can in difficult circumstances.
First off, well done in getting out there and dating.
I can understand your confusion and hurt at your xh calling you. How can we be married to someone for a long time, see a terrible change in them, and then apparently see them start to recognise it? I believe it would throw most of us.
It sounds as if your xh could be waking up, or it could be a 'touch and go' which is a reassurance that although their journey isn't over, they still want to check that their ex spouse is still there.
Also you are dating someone. Now dating isn't 100% commitment, but you like him and this guy has feelings. I am never sure quite what people mean by dating. There is a world of difference between someone you see fairly regularly and may or mat not have a more intimate r with, and a r which is pretty committed, and which is on the road to marriage. But whatever level of commitment is there, he is somewhat, or a lot in your life. This makes a difference
Overall i tend to agree with most others have said. Continue to live your life, work on yourself and deal with your anger.
I think we need to acknowledge and deal with very understandable anger that we have been very badly treated, lied to and cheated on by someone we loved, and who had made promises to us. The letting it go and forgiving is hard. If someone has done something terrible, it is not a question of trivialising what they did - but recognising that it is a lot to get past. And still getting beyond it. I wold suggest that anyone who tells you this is easy hasn't actually done it!
Finally your xh. Friendship with boundaries is OK. He needs to recognise that these are his issues, and cannot dump them on you. You have yours and he has his.
Why not work on friendship, and tell him honestly at this stage that is all you can deal with, and get to know each other again? I only know one divorced couple who are really friends, but they are, and good ones.
Hi Beatrice!
Thank you for your kind word! This has been the worst three years of my life and something no one can prepare you for. I am dating and by that I mean I go out with this wonderful guy but there is no commitment. I am healthy enough to know I am not in a place to give that to anyone. When your world gets so turned upside down by the person you love and trusted the most it takes awhile to get yourself right again......at least for me. I am not healthy enough to love someone else!
I do believe my XH went through some psychological breakdown. Throughout all of this he has been extremely depressed and often stated life got out of control. Several times I thought he might do something to himself. I know many would say........then he should have gotten help. At the beginning he tried and I believe the T made him worse because she didn't understand what was happening.
After that I don't think he knew how or what to do. Plus I believe most men do just what he did to relieve his pain....throw himself in work, drinking, have women. Anything to distract them from the pain. He said the other day that he can't run anymore and has to face the pain and emptiness inside otherwise he knows it will never go away. Sadly I think he also realizes that he wants to be loved and he knows my family and I loved him very much. I think he would do anything to have it back.
So where does that leave me???? In some ways I am in a great place since I have had the opportunity to learn so much about myself and meet some terrific people. But you are right about the anger. It is still there. Not like it was before but I honestly think time is the only thing that will take it away. It seems as the more my life moves on the anger is abating. In some ways it is easy for me to forgive him because I do believe he had some type of breakdown. Other times it does come out especially when he seems to minimize what has happened. I have told him several times that I don't think it is good that we talk since he can't seem to hear anything negative and I don't want to walk on eggshells.
Sorry to ramble!!! Him coming around and doing a 180 has been strange, good and awful all at the same time. I don't want to hurt his progress. I have a daughter and I would love for her to have a healthy father. But I also don't want to mess up the progress I have made!!
Many have suggested trying to be his friend so obviously that is something I need to try. I am just not sure what that is going to look like........I guess it needs to look like what is comfortable for me!!
Again, thank you for your words of wisdom and your understanding of my pain!
You are getting great advice but FWIW your XH is NOT in acceptance stage of MLC.
Sounds more like he is still in REPLAY or at the tail end of REPLAY looking to see if you would accept him back.
Crisis is still in full swing
and if you were to get back together he would still need to got through the remaining stages of MLC.
Depression, Withdrawal and then acceptance.
There is no avoiding them.
Keep listening to everyone that is giving you advice here they are spot on.
Cadet is right, it sounds like he's just at the very beginning of depression, or contemplating finally "facing" depression with his comment about not running away anymore, but also falling back into replay with the minimizing of the havoc he wreaked.
Think about how long it took you to get yourself together and feel good with your identity and independence after he shattered your view of the world--he has to face the same thing. I have the same situation in my life as far as family or friends who might abandon me or see it as a betrayal if I started anything with my XH were he to come back. That's a whole other thing that he would have to face.
I think when they hit that stage--if they do--of finally seeing what they did and desiring deeply for people to just love and accept them again, they have to realize that it will take serious work on their part to mend those fences. You cannot simply go to your family or friends and say "well, I decided that we should welcome him back, so do it." Some people might NEVER welcome back a betrayer, no matter what he does to try to repair things, and he'd have to accept that outcome.
I like the suggestion of saying that you are uncomfortable by his intimate comments. You are simply not tied to him intimately anymore in the present. Your tie is in the past. And you don't have to have a boyfriend to say that intimate comments make you uncomfortable, either.
This sort of behavior reminds me of what I saw when my XH began his MLC...the sort of "fix it for me Antonia I don't know what's wrong with me" stage that was mixed with horrible mood swings and a quick temper any time I ever showed that I was getting exasperated with him.
If you think of this as similar to the early stages of MLC, and as most of us did, we tried to do everything in our power to help, which might have included changing our behavior with the wind every time they acted like it was our fault, well, you see where it always ends up, with their breaking down worse.
So it's almost like you have to do the opposite and just stay out of his path. You're in a much better, stronger place to do so now because if you've really changed yourself and you life for the better in the past few years and gotten rid of some issues of codependency and the desire to "save" someone who needs to help himself, then it should be easier for you to walk away from incidents where he's trying to pull you back into the vortex and lean on you instead of himself.
If Cadet is right, and I suspect he is, that your spouse is coming out of Replay and thus is still very much in crisis, then friendship with a MLCer is tricky. I think it is more a question of being pleasant, but not too involved in their drama.
You own question to yourself - where does that leave you, is a good one and shows a healthy focus of attention.
And yes, anger fades over time if we don't feed it. It becomes less important, and we see the bigger picture.
I would take it as it comes, with no expectations, and kindness and good boundaries.
I'm going to put another spin on the situation. How do we know that he's not trying to win you back by saying the things he does? He knows you are doing well and have moved on to the point that you are comfortable w/your new life. He also may very well know you are dating....This man may be afraid of losing you and is telling you things that he thinks you want to hear.
Until he's earned his right to be a partner w/you, I would step back and allow him to continue his therapy and prove himself to you. Do not take him back w/o him doing the necessary work to heal. Many times, they come back and they've not done the work and out the door they go a second time and it is even more painful the second time around.
Live your life to the fullest. If it is meant to be, he will find a way to return to you as a mature and wiser man.
Maybe I shouldn't have said what stage I thought he is in. It really doesn't matter since what I am actually concerned with is what to do. No matter what stage it seems to me that the advice all of you are saying is the same. Be kind to him but keep boundaries. (I liked the idea of having responses ready for his comments) Don't go back to the old me who at the beginning tried to fix him. And go on with my life while protecting myself! No matter what he still has more to go through which I completely understand.
I have a GF who has gone from man to man since her divorce and has not spent a minute working on herself. She is terrified to be alone. I found I had to be alone to heal. Maybe everyone doesn't have to do that but I feel they do and I told my XH the same thing. I still at times have to embrace the fear and loneliness to know I am OK and love me right where I am.
Snodderly I think you are right about wanting me back. My friends and family continually tell me the same thing. But the things he is saying seem to come from a true place of pain. Do I think he is hoping that by telling me his realizations he thinks it will win me back.......very possible! Within a year of him leaving and me moving on he told me he wished he had never moved out and things have been out of control every since. Honestly, I think he wants me back yet is terrified of trying to get too close to me.....that would take being very vulnerable.
Good news is I understand the work he has to do!!! Been there! I have told him several times lately that he will never feel loved until he finally loves himself. Something I had to do! I have also been around mature men that know how to treat a woman! Very attractive! I know what I want now and don't want to settle for less. I would rather be alone!
I have to tell you.....even posting here brought back some negative feelings. It reminded me of my desperate search to find help in the whirlwind drama I found myself. I was in such a bad place back then and would have done anything to stop the madness. I don't want to go back into the drama......yet as I keep saying I don't want to be a part of the problem.
As always, I appreciate all of your input!
I don't know if one has to be "alone" to heal. Just a matter of being open to being honest and genuine with oneself... THAT is the process of healing...
Yes, IMHO too many people avoid that by getting "involved" with others or with drama or with anything to avoid the introspective work that helps us grow...
By all means keep posting as you feel you need support or need a safe place to vent or voice concerns... we'll always be here for you.
In the mean time, set only the boundaries that you feel you emotionally need... it may actually be good and healthy for you to communicate with your X.
Otherwise, keep on living your life and enjoying it for all it has to offer.
what they said...and since you put it so well, when you said doesn't matter if he's in acceptance phase (I doubt that a lot)
but what to do...
okay so what is it you want to know? You must "Do" something? When? Why?
Let him do his work, which he has plenty of...and IF and WHEN he is ready, which he is not now
let him come to you and clearly give you a choice and then you decide if and what to do.
Right now you are guessing at what he means and decoding his comments. that's crap. He left and was terrible to you. You GAL and seem to be backsliding into his vortex
you've said things that sound as if you are a rescuer looking for a mission, or as if you are a person who wants to be with damaged goods.
there are good men out there who don't need overhauls And you have not let go of the pain he caused you, which I understand...I get that.
But there's simply no way you two are near piecing b/c all I am hearing is that your ex h is flirting with you but does not want to own his actions.
I guess I don't know what is so tempting about that, except how you feel sorry for him, which I don't find appealing in a mate.
How are your children?
You have had some terrific advice - and none of it conflicting. rather offering some different perspectives and emphasis.
On a personal note, I got sucked back slightly into my xh's drama, and it is sooo easy to do this. They are such drama queens, and as well trained St Bernard dogs we tend to want to DO something instead of just going on being.
i had a real light bulb moment last night as i was peacefully pottering around my sitting room, of great acceptance of myself, the situation as it is, and my centredness. Interaction with crazy xh was threatening to destablise this, and it was me that was allowing it. And then I thought, he is no longer a very nice person. Not simply the way in which he dumped me, but self obsessed, and generally difficult and not much fun any more. Why on earth would I want someone like that in my life when I don't have to?
Call it acceptance, or detachment . . . and it isn't because I have met someone new to 'replace' my xh. I live alone, have a full life, a little lonely at times, but that is becoming less and less of an issue. Moving from a close family, and loving husband with all the kids at home to an empty nest and departed husband takes some adjusting to! It is my choice, not anyone else's fault.
With this detachment and acceptance is a loss of anger. There is still recognition that what he did was horrible, but I don't need to hang on to that feeling. Getting your heart to where your head it takes an awfully long time!
I am sure that I will feel rage and sadness from time to time, but I can see tose emotons for what they are, and acknowledge them and let them go. Everyone is right, they affect no-one but us.
Beatrice and 25yearsmlc
Thank you so much for your responses. Your comments are really hitting home. This weekend as I was posting on this site I found myself reading more and more about MLC again. Something I had not done in almost a year and a half!!! Some of it was confusing me. There are those, as you know, that feel you hang on and fight for your X even after the divorce. That messes with my head.
But I do know I am getting sucked back into the vortex. And the funny thing is I don't think I want him back. I say "think" because my head says no but my actions seem to represent something else. Interesting, as you were saying beatrice, I have found my anxiety and depression rearing its ugly head since his reappearance. And my head is in a spin.
I am a rescuer and am one who is always helping out the underdog. Maybe because I have felt like an underdog at times and appreciate when someone helps me out. I was raised in a very religious home where you were taught that others were more important. I won't go into all of that but will just say my codependence runs deep.
25years.......my daughter is 13 and has never cried once about any of this. My XH worked A LOT. So they weren't very close. The D has actually pushed them to be closer to each other.
And you also asked what I was wanting. My XH has been so angry with me since before he left me even though he would send me texts saying he would always love me. Then out of the blue he is wanting to be around, texting how wonderful I am and saying how desperately he needs help. As I stated earlier.......I have never been here before. My fear was I could actually make him worse by things I said. At times he has "seemed" suicidal. So I was looking for help. I know people on this site have seen it all.
Would part of me like my XH back.......I think so. But as I keep stating, I have been around men that make me realize I could have a whole new life. Most people don't get the chance to start over again. Many of my gfs are jealous of my situation since they are in unhappy marriages!
I need to go back to putting the emphasis back on me!!! I hear all of you saying that loud and clear!! And I appreciate you getting me to reaffirm my commitment to myself!!! Thank you so much!!
of all the things you have said, the fact that your anxiety is back, in huge
and most important, you have a 13 y/o d...who is watching you.
If you go back to him b/c he's suicidal you are teaching her to take on the responsibility of another person's happiness, and a sick man at that. If you reconcile for unhealthy reasons or needs on your end, that's a life long example of what NOT to do in a r, and your d will be imprinted with it.
If you go back to him b/c he works on himself and changes and is ready to make a future with you and you want THAT, then you could leave a legacy of forgiveness in the face of redemption and that's a worthwhile legacy.
Another great legacy to leave her with, is moving on and showing her that we each create our happiness and nothing another person does will be allowed into our soul's contentment. Be happy with or without him and very possibly have a healthy happy r with another man...a different type of man and that teaches her what to look for or avoid in men...
I suspect she knows that he hurt you deeply and she was frightened it would destroy her only real parent. Then she saw you plod through it to get to a better place and there is probably more peace in her life now...don't discard that carelessly. Kids need to feel safe and stable. They don't need or want upheaval and we impose a lot of it on them.
teach her you can become centered and whole without another person.
Teach her that you will embrace your future with eagerness to know what good thing is right around the corner from you
and teach her how to be happy; that she is solely responsible for her happiness and you show her with GAL and a spiritual life of some sort, HOW to do that...
make sense?
She's watching you, make no mistake.
WOW 25 !
You just dropped some serious pearls on this thread! I needed to "hear" what you just said too, so THANKS!
Sydney,
I was about to say,"Yeah, what 25 said!" lol ! There is not much to add but I will say that your daughter is watching no doubt. She may not tell you how she feels for years to come. Show her what a healthy relationship looks like so that she will be able to discern it for herself when she goes out into the world.
Help her through example to end a cycle of codependence and putting other's needs before her own, as you mentioned. I was raised very religious and codependent as well. My Mom and her Mom were both this way. I am trying to break the cycle so that my daughters pick better mates and are more self aware than I ever was.
I applaud the work that you have done to this point ! Keep moving forward and doing the things that make you happy and fulfilled. You are doing well.
HUGS !
[quote=sydneyl2u]he was in pain and tried women, partying, buying and blaming to make himself feel better. None of it worked. He is reaching out now for help. And I do believe he loves me in his own dysfunctional way/quote]
It's unbelievable how much our situations are alike. I could have written this about my ex h.
It's sad because it's just too late.
Luv
Sydney,
I just wanted to let you know that I've looked over your old posts and threads. Your sitch is so very very similar to mine.
Reading your posts from the past really has helped me. Just getting the validation that you're not crazy, and that this really is a bizarre reality we're thrust into helps so much.
It really is true, maybe time lines are different and some sitches are different scenarios, but they all say the same lines, react the same way, and just keep spinning on out of control no matter what we say or don't say. Do or don't do.
I wanted to say you're an inspiration to me in getting on with your life and moving forward steadily. How you're feeling is how I feel about stbx. However my stbx has not called and opened up as yours has.
I too still love my stbx. Part of me wants him home, but I realize that part of me is still in love with the " good" old husband. Not the alien person he is now. I don't like the alien. The alien makes me very frustrated when he allows the old husband to come out or do a "touch and go" so to speak. It strikes a cord, and touches my heart, and I end up yearing for what was and all the good things I want to believe are to still be inside of him. Maybe the good is still there, it's just very doormant now.
What I learned from this was about my codependency. I too tend to be a rescuer and a helper. When you see them go through this, all you want to do is help, make it better and take the pain away. But I told my stbx 8 months ago, I can't do it for him, he has to do it himself. I've taken this oppurtunity and apply it to other relationships that I have some co dependency on.
I have made friends with a very nice man. I too have now seen that there are nice men out there and that there can be happiness with our without a person. It's ok to go on with your life, and still be a friend with boundaries to xh.
My stbx too acted as if he didn't want me in his life at all, yet he couldn't let go. I really felt as if my job was to sit and be his audience and listen to it all be about him, while my heart and soul was being trampled on.
That's where boundaries and NC worked wonders for me.
You're doing a great job!
This thing about your anxiety returning strikes a chord with me. I want to relate a personal story that really shows the link between a dysfunctional rel. that we know is "off" in our core and anxiety.
I have discovered through all of this that I've dealt with anxiety my whole life, which is tied to perfectionism, unrealistic expectations that my parents put on me as first-born, and which just snowballed the older I got, more bar-raising left and right, to the point where I set my own bar very high. This makes me really driven and ambitious but also not able to relax or cut myself a break. Anyway my anxiety issues were manageable until I started to have actual minor health problems that carried with them some symptoms back about 3 years before XH's MLC came out into the open. I started to worry about my health issues to such a level that I swear I made myself more symptomatic. It was very much a mind-body thing.
I wanted to avoid a surgery and started a treatment program with a naturopathic doc. that would work with non-prescription treatment and dietary changes and other things. She kept saying that all my issues were "second chakra" and centered in the part of my body aligned with relationships, and darnit if we could not figure out what was wrong, because I kept saying "but my rel. with my XH is so wonderful." We figured it was work anxiety and hormonal changes.
Well I continued to have symptoms and pain and panic about the pain. It sort of took over my life. I became very anxious about it. I had one or two emergency room trips even. Just excruciating levels of pain in my abdomen. (admittedly I leaned too much on XH at this time and was extremely co-dependent and this is probably one reason he went with a much younger OW...he didn't want to deal with a wife who let an illness take over her life so much).
When XH left the first time, I lost a lot of weight as many people do, from depression, and I assumed that my loss of symptoms came from that. But the physical evidence of my health concerns is still there. You can see the abnormalities on an ultrasound. When he came back, he wasn't back all that long...but I did feel the pain in the abdomen from time to time and I just tried to ignore it.
When he left the second time, I kid you not, I walked out onto my deck as he drove away and said out loud, these problems are not going to bother me anymore.
It was like at that moment, I realized that whatever anxiety I was holding in me that related to him was all bound up in the place in my body where I knew there were abnormalities. And with him gone, that place relaxed. I have had little to no symptoms there ever since.
Where do I have pain now? In the shoulders and neck. This is because I now feel I "carry the weight" of everything he left behind myself. I maintain the house and our pets and property alone. It is taking me a long time to adjust and not see this as a source of stress but as a choice I made to keep much of the responsibilities I once shared with him. Still working on that. So that's where the anxiety is now for me.
But any time I start to get too linked to XH again, the anxiety returns to the "2nd chakra", the stomach and abdomen, to the place that represents symbolically your connection with a partner.
In other words, being linked to XH in any way when he is in this very dysfunctional MLC pattern literally makes me emotionally ill, because I involuntarily create mind-body illnesses when there is a major source of stress in my life. It took me years to see that my health concerns likely stemmed from my not acknowledging that he was keeping me from being my authentic self. Maybe I was keeping him from being HIS authentic self, although his behavior now still appears to be marked by hiding from himself. But it was this conflict of me not being who I am and happy with myself that was making me sick with anxiety which would create physical symptoms, and so if you are feeling a high level of anxiety now in your sitch, it's probably that the anxiety is trying to warn you that right now, your XH represents a real invasion to your authentic self.
I guess I'd suggest that it is valuable to consider that there are important differences between love and pity.
I know no one has posted to this thread in a while, but just wanted to say how much of Sydney's and Antonia's situations resonated with me. I am currently dealing with a depressed WAH (I have a thread under the Newcomers section). Like Antonia, I have long had anxiety that becomes so much worse in anticipation of seeing my H. Every time I am supposed to see him, I think "Maybe this is the time he drops the bomb and says he definitely wants a divorce." Trying to take care of myself, but all of this happened so suddenly it has been traumatizing.