After he dropped the bomb two months ago, and has been distant but still here... I realized something was up when he started using "private browsing" feature on the computer. I happened to walk in and see him using for the first time last week. I asked him if there was anything he wanted to talk about but he said no. He asked me to go see a movie and have dinner last Fri, and nearly acted as if he were getting a bit closer with me.
Then I walked in and saw "private browsing" and it started eating away at me. I realize this is not the right thing to do but I felt like I was on a precipice and something had to be revealed to me. I just knew he was lying to me about having affections for someone else.
I put in webwatcher and found an email account he set up mid august, (this year), and five emails he had sent to another woman. There was only one she sent in return to him. None of them contained anything sexual, or any "i love yous", but it was clear he was pursuing her.
When I saw this, I was shaking so hard, and I got sick and threw up. I did not want to confront him, but he came back from the store and found me in the bathroom getting sick.
I just lost it and blurted it out.... and he absolutely denied it all. Said I was crazy. So I logged into his secret account for him and showed this to him. Well, he got really angry with me and said he liked this woman and that they were friends and chatted on his lunch breaks at work.
But, this woman has moved out of the country now for a few months ... and he wanted to keep up with her. She no longer works with him as of now.
He admitted to talking with her on his lunch, they worked on the same team, and he had made a couple music CDs for her. They apparently talked about music a lot. Reminds me of what he did when we first met with me.
Anyway, I went through an entire range of emotions, crying, getting sick, freaking out, to telling him to just get out and leave me alone. I know my reaction was not DB-ing. I just was not thinking in the moment.
We had a very long talk though, once I was able to calm down and he told me that the chemistry between us was not there. He said he loves me, but not in love. Says he wants to pursue other women, other things in life. Says he does not want to be married anymore. I tried to talk to him a little about MLC, and this time he said he would look up on it. I don't know if he will.
I admit I could not control my crying, as I was in shock and did not expect that he was pursuing this girl. My heart is so broken right now and I feel like I'm falling apart.
I feel like he took me and threw me away for someone more shiny .. and wants to trash a 10 year marriage.
I was able to calm down again, and I don't know why he said this but... he said "maybe we should go to counseling". This did surprise me because before he was adamant about not going to counseling. He said that...he didn't want me to get my hopes up, but that he would agree to go see a counselor with me.
He also plans to stay here in the house, while we go for counseling... I believe he said he wanted to spend the next couple months or so.
I don't know what to do. Am I delaying the inevitable? Should I go ahead and go for the counseling? I did ask him that if were going to stay here and do this, to please not email this girl. He said that he would not... but you know.... he may anyway.
I tried to ask him what is it about me that he's not attracted to anymore, what happened.... etc. He said it was him, not me. But is me, right? I'm feeling so low right now... like I'm not good enough...
trying to pull it together here, no sleep, daughter is waking up soon...
I am very sorry that you are here, but you will meet a lot of people who are on the same path as you are and can offer up suggestions, advice and support to you along the way.
I suggest that you stop asking him questions about why he feels the way he does and what is it about you that has changed his way of thinking. The journey that he is on is one that only he can travel. This is all about him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.
Ctflor, what you can do is take care of yourself and your child. Get plenty of rest, eat and exercise. Read as much as you can about mlc and do not discuss MLC or this board w/him. He doesn't see that it's him that is having difficulties.
I would go to counseling, but be prepared for him to turn things around and justify his feelings after a few sessions. He may determine after one session that he's not going to any more, but you continue to go if it makes you feel better.
This is a very, very long journey and the clock is extremely slow in his land...you, on the other hand, will find your way, but it's going to take you some time. Watch your bank accounts and credit cards. You may want to set up a separate account in your name, just in case he starts spiraling out of control.
Come here whenever you need to talk.
Thank you snodderly... I do have another thread i started, and i was so upset, forgot and started this one.
I want to hold on to hope about counseling, but being he told me not to...i worry i am delaying the inevitable.
I am having the worst time at this moment... Cant stop crying, even when i tey shifting my thinking on to my studies.
C,
We all have been where you are right now and we understand. It's going to take you a while to find your footing. You are grieving for your relationship/marriage and it all takes time. Be kind and gentle to yourself and understand that what is happening to your h didn't happen over night...it may have been gradually coming on for several years. Please do not beat yourself up over this....
Pamper yourself today...do something w/your little one. Time is on your side...
Ct,
If you decide to go the counseling route at this time, please make sure the MC is marriage friendly. There are stories on this board where the wrong counselor can do more harm than good.
Snodderly has given you wise advice. MLCer's are notorious for 'trying' counseling and then saying, well, I've done all I can and it's still not working.
As Snodderly told you, don't bring up MLC to him. MLCer's believe that they're OK and that nothing is wrong with them.
This site, and the DR book and any other book you decide to read are for you. The reasoning behind not letting him see them is so he doesn't think your changes are tactics to get him back. He won't think they're real at first anyway, and the only thing you can do is show him with consistency.
Stop snooping, it only hurts you. MLCer's lie and him knowing you are snooping will only drive him to hide things deeper.
Ct, I know you are taking this personally, but please try and put a stop to that. As hard as it is to believe this is not about you. Your H is unhappy and most likely depressed. He is running, even though he hasn't left yet (he may not) looking for something to fix himself. He hasn't figured out, and most likely won't for some time, that external fixes such as ow, drinking, or any number of other things won't lead to the happiness he's looking for. They may give that illusion for a while but eventually it will crash down around him.
He must face those issues on the inside that he has stuffed and never dealt with. You can't help him by telling him about it. He must come to terms with that on his own. It's what his journey is about.
You have your own journey to walk. As Snodderly said, come here to vent, talk, ask questions. We're here walking along with you.
Thank you snodderly, seeking answers
Just trying to hold on, while i feel my world is crashing in. Cant breathe...feel trapped in a nightmare.
He said he would go to mc, open to the possibility that we could work through it and be together, however he also said not to get my hopes up because he wants to be free.
I guess i feel thankful for that much...but i still feel no hope.
Thank you guys for being here...i have no one to talk with about this today and really do need a counselor.
It is so hard not to snoop, before i snooped i went through it in my mind wether or not i would be ready for anything i would find. I just needed the truth.
H has been crying off and on today. We both have. I asked him if he was ok and all he said was that he was sorry about the pain he is causing me and that he is feeling sad. Even if this does not work out for us as a couple, going to counseling will hopefully help him with what he is going through.
Good advice above, CT...
One thing you will hear others say is that cheaters lie...
It is also said, If you do not know you are cheating, just ask your spouse...
The point is, he had a secret account that he was using to communicate with someone... regardless of whether that OP was responsive or not... he intentionally hid it from you, so he knows he was doing something "wrong"...
With that in mind, remember what was said above... if he is cheating, he will hide it, so snooping is only pointless as you will find what you are looking for (which won't be good), he will deny it even if you have proof, and he will go further underground with his "secret"...
Take care of yourself... get through these emotions and then start GALing as best you can and become a woman only a fool would leave...
Ct,
listen to us as we tell you to read the Divorce Remedy (or divorce busting) books and get a grip on what this is all about. Here, we support marriages (not at all costs) but we also support those who are thrust into a divorce they could not stop.
You are a long long way from being in a "divorce is inevitable" group. There's plenty of hope left if you are wise and disciplined in the approach you take to this.
No matter what happens, trust this: Doing things the divorce busting way will improve YOU as a woman/partner...
that has value. If your h sees those changes in time and trusts them, great.
But know that you will come out of this a better, more contented woman. Thank you snodderly... I do have another thread i started, and i was so upset, forgot and started this one.
I want to hold on to hope about counseling, but being he told me not to...i worry i am delaying the inevitable.
Well, so what if you are? At least you'll know you didn't quit too early.
I am having the worst time at this moment... Cant stop crying, even when i tey shifting my thinking on to my studies.
Can you see a counselor or doctor? Can you get on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds so you can sleep well enough and not ask or snoop too much? Not saying you have to, but I've been there and done that.
When you have kids, they need you even if you are in great pain. I found myself consumed by anger and pain and I wasn't really present for the kids for awhile.
So I had to work on that and letting go. And detaching, becoming the best woman I could be
"a woman only a fool would leave"....and once I began to believe I was a great catch
and would eventually be fine without h, and even that he was losing more than me, I think it radiated from within.
Anyhow, h changed his mind and did some working back to our family and marriage and then WE did the work and it's pretty good now.
But YOU can only change YOU....really you need to get this.
And read the Divorce Busting book(S) asap...hang in there.
Also here are some "rules for DBing" at the start. Sandi organized them but there were several who contributed I think, and they are basedon MWD's approach.
Here they are--learn them.
I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
I'm not sure why h did this tonight, but he signed into the private account and told me he was writing ow to tell her he felt it was best he not communicate with her, and basically told her he was sorry to have dragged her into his problems. He invited me over to watch him send the email, and then he deleted the account. He said he wanted to explore counsling, and didnt feel he could focus on ow and me at the same time. Before he went to bed, i noticed he had been crying and i asked if he was ok. He said, you probably dont want to hear it, but i will miss talking to ow, and told me he liked her a lot, it was not love but he liked her.
I told him i was sorry he felt sad and appreciated what he had done. It is very hard for me to have compassion for him when he chose to lie and set up the account so he could persue her while she is away out of the country.
I wonder if he really saw her as an escape for his pain?
He keeps telling me he wants to be free to come and go as he wants, then turns around and says he wants to go into counseling with the possibility of staying together. Makes no sense. Kaffe, you are right...it is pointless to snoop. Not sure how much more i can handle finding out anyway.
Thanks for posting this list 25yrs. I am wanting to pull back, but i worry it could backfire, especially if we are heading for mc.
Unfortunately i wont be able to afford a mc for me and couples mc.
On the list it says no matter how i feel, to be happy and cheerful. Well, i did this and he still pursued ow.
I do need to stop pursuing him.
ct,
don't expect fast results but realize this really is mostly about HIM. He's confused now so you need to back off big time b/c pursuing him is a bad bad idea when he's going to see it as pressure.
In effect, "Pursuit = pushing him away". May sound counter intuitive but that is why you must read the Div Busting books. I prefer the 2nd one, Div Remedy.
Start reading that asap. I think Ch 1 is online.
Good luck
Your H is obviously confused. My early sitch was so much like yours - my H dropped the bomb, told me he wanted to be free, then later I did find that he was pursuing OW. Exactly the same kind of emails - no ILY's or anything sexual, but obviously with a lot of affection.
He also did the same thing about MC. But just like they said here, I felt that he was only using MC as an excuse to say that he tried, so I actually decided not to pursue it and went instead to my own therapy which at least was covered by insurnace, and if anything, helped me vent. And the same thing about breaking up with OW - he did it openly, tell her that no more ocntact, etc. but what happened with us is that he became so depressed, missed OW terribly and then OW was the one wo initiated contact and they went "underground".
Good for you you found this site early, I did not know about DBing until 4 mos. post bomb and so blundered my way through those first 4 mos.
Somehow we are still together, but a lot of damage has been done.
Just wondering, how old is your D?
Thanks 25years.....just finished reading it and going over the list. Been trying to find a mc who accepts payments today. Feeling extremely anxious and sad today.
Angel, did you use any of the db techniques on the list in this thread? Did they work? If you don't mind sharing any helpful specifics.
Angel, did you use any of the db techniques on the list in this thread? Did they work? If you don't mind sharing any helpful specifics.
speaking for myself, I GAL and detached and did some 180's...in the reverse order.
All helped. Detaching and coming to believe that I was going to be truly fine with or without h, and then believing it was likely to be without him
and still, I'd be alright, was eventually something I must have radiated. The more I believed it and showed my confidence, the better he seemed to treat me. I sent out job applications for 1 year contract work overseas and h was shocked by that.
Said "what's going on?" I said "I always wanted to live in Europe and the girls are fine with it." H said nothing but boy did he look bugged. What could he say?
Frankly, I came to realize my life would be better without h than with him IF he was going to keep on that track of his.
I came to see the upsides of his absence and when he wanted back in, he had some convincing to do.
Here's a post from someone who has an ex h (former MLCer) who now wants back in. He was gone for 6 years but she did not use that time to "wait" around. She has a good life now and is debating what to do.
Here's what she wrote to someone else with a H/MLCer. Note especially the last 2 lines...
It's good that your H is inching out of MLC but it's a long and slow process. It's so important to think about yourself and enjoy your life as much as you can if you choose to wait it out.
My H wanted me to stay right where he left me - it gave him a sense of unlimited time to continue his bad behavior. He didn't want me to get a life without him. When he finally sensed that I wasn't waiting in the wings for him anymore, I think that helped rush the end of the MLC. I wish I had realized this sooner.
Thank you ...25years. Because of your post i stood strong tonight.
My h told me he wanted to give us a second chance. I just said..."i dont know. Have to think anout it"
I wanted to jump at the chance more than anything...but I didnt. I wanted to feel hopeful but instead i feel sick.
I'm extremely scared and cautious. Knowing the mind of the mlc'er...he could fall back into the tunnel tomorrow. Maybe i am the rebound for ow. He is sad, does not feel he can be with her now...secret is out...the excitement fizzled. She is out of the country... I'm here. Just speculating.
How did he go from being angry about me uncovering ow, to wanting a second chance? This just does not feel logical nor based in reality.
Thank you ...25years. Because of your post i stood strong tonight.
My h told me he wanted to give us a second chance. I just said..."i dont know. Have to think anout it"
WELL DONE!!! You are not doing this to punish him. You are just revealing the fact that there IS some risk to his behavior. Obviously (well, NOT so obvious to the MLCer though) is that a LBS is hurt & won't endure that forever. Otherwise it's hard for the MLCerto see any downside to their endless indecision....make sense?
I wanted to jump at the chance more than anything...but I didnt. I wanted to feel hopeful but instead i feel sick.
I get that^^...understood. It does get better.
I'm extremely scared and cautious. Knowing the mind of the mlc'er...he could fall back into the tunnel tomorrow. Maybe i am the rebound for ow. He is sad, does not feel he can be with her now...secret is out...the excitement fizzled. She is out of the country... I'm here. Just speculating.
How did he go from being angry about me uncovering ow, to wanting a second chance? This just does not feel logical nor based in reality.
welcome to the world of the MLCer...
my single biggest regret (and I have many) is the amount of time I spent on trying to understand what I now believe is fairly incomprehensible.
I focussed SO MUCH ON HIM instead of caring for me, and my kids. I kept asking myself, and every person I could ask this of,
"WHY???" And other unanswerables like "when will it be over? What will happen? How will HE feel? What is HE thinking/doing/planning/feeling?"
Sense a pattern CT? All about HIM...not what I wanted or needed or could do to be happy THEN or what I could do to create a better more fulfilling life for me and my kids...
I wish I had done that sooner b/c it sure felt better than NOT doing it.
I wish to God I had cared for myself better and faster. I can't say exactly what matterd the most to h, and or when. I just know that as soon as I felt better and safer "no matter what", well, first off, I FELT BETTER!
second, that inner feeling of well being or peace within, does make us radiate something that MLCers seem attracted to. Actually most people are attracted to those who seem to have it together inside. You know?
As for h, can't say exactly when but for sure I noticed a shift after he moved up to the great north and found himself, predictably, alone a lot. I was here with our girls in our home in a warm sunny area with friends and a future. I began to really GAL and enjoy the upsides of his being gone. Little things at first, like watching chick flicks when I wanted and not worrying about a toilet seat being up. Sounds silly but it helped to notice this and embrace the little "improvements"...plus I had d's at home with me.
Then bigger things, like not caring about h's career and where to live FOR HIM was huge and liberating for me...finally...
H was doing whatever he was doing in his new "cutting edge" "GREAT JOB"...
which he left his family for.
I had a feeling he felt he had a mission. (Hard to explain but I know he had a "task" to accomplish which he needed, insanely, to do. NOT something I'll ever agree with, but it was what it was).
We had seen many mc's and they pretty much told me, in front of h, that h was "acting like a single man" or a "man who values his career over his family." Ouch.
I hated hearing things I could do nothing about, which is why it's HUGELY important to dig deep and
hope to God you do find flaws in you that you want to work on. Why? B/c then there's something you can do. You're not powerless. I dug deep and not so deep and there was plenty I could do to become a better woman. Still is.
Anyhow, when that task of h's was accomplished I thought he might wake up. Sure enough that happened. As if he suddenly noticed no one was there with him.
When he had visited us here 3000 miles south, (and see if any of this can apply with you)
I did my best to contrast the negatives he had said or felt, with positives. Intuitively I had not wanted to do that. i wanted to punish him for leaving.
Felt I should not be warm and fuzzy b/c after all, he had wronged me and I'd be rewarding him.
BUT the thing is, 1) that didn't work, while he was here being nasty and
so
2) I needed to try a different approach.
So I gave him something to miss.
We had warm fun times when he was here and our children were with me here living their lives...and then he'd fly back to the tundra/adventure and as for warmth and fun for him, maybe not so much??
When the dark cold winter came, he began calling every day. Sometimes more than once.
I was happy and upbeat BUT WE WERE HERE...& we were busy doing fun things, meeting cool people, going to interesting places, GAL big time.
H eventually felt miserable...the rest is history. Except I did not say "sure come home" or "yes I'll join you" when he first asked. I said things like "How do I know you wont' choose another job/person/thing/hobby to do over me/us again?" How do I know you wont' be a jerk again (or words to that effect).
H said the things I needed to hear, over time, before I agreed to try. Then we went to Retrovaille about a year into piecing. For us it was very helpful.
My guess is that if you can pull it off, and it's often Mother Teresa hard...
be as upbeat and warm and loving/interesting as you can be BUT also mysterious and not quite so dang available to him...(IOW, don't say "I'll love you forever" and keep reassuring/pressuring him, b/c that may be how long he takes with this and at this point, it's a turn off for him...)
any man who says "don't get your hopes up" should be listened to. Meaning, don't. You can be warm and loving BUT detached and not available. Haven't you flirted with guys before? Of course...doesn't mean you don't have other interests or friends.
Assume he may leave but be the best woman you can be anyhow. (For one thing, why not become the best woman you can become?
I don't think we ought to see our improvements as a "waste of time" if they don't come back. Second, it increases the chances of him realizing you are a great catch AND that he might lose you so he needs to wake up.
It's a fine line to walk but somehow find the balance between being too available/needy to him, and yet still being a warm woman with lots of fun charm (GAL big time is the most helpful thing for this).
These changes are first done for US, not them...you really need to "get" that.
When you go to the MC, don't argue FOR the m or push hard to convince him. F- that. Do a whole lot of listening to him.
He will probably revise the marital history to justify wanting to leave.
They all do this with statements like "I was never happy" never felt loved, always felt bad" etc. (Lots of "always" and "nevers" tosses in...as if that's realistic or fair.)
But when he does that, you have two options that are helpful.
1) if he says something totally out of whack that might not even be true at all,
say "Wow, I don't recall it like that at all, but I'm sorry you felt hurt/upset by that."
2) if he says something that has SOME or a lot of validity to it, and you feel responsible for some or all of it, you say'
"Yes, if I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I would do differently."
Both responses are hard to argue with and both indicate you would not do the same behavior again. That indicates change on your end.
Doesn't mean you don't speak up for yourself if his demands stink for you. You count too. You will soon need to decide what's good enough for YOU.
For now though, since you are here trying to make things work--
Bottom line is
he will need to believe, that
marriage to you can be better/different than before.
truth be told, don't you want to know that^^ too?since you are the one posting here, the changes begin with you and we don't even go to what HE needs to work on. He's not here.
You work on YOU and ONLY YOU b/c that's your job. And Be there for the kids b/c they don't need both parents checking out on them.
I know you fear being second fiddle. But he may be thinking, "since OW is gone, I may as well 'try'...." and he's kind of right.
Doesn't do much for your ego but that's an aside right now. You have to do what YOU can for your ego. And if he's 'trying', then do that too, times 100.
If things don't work out, you will have given it everything and down deep he'll always know that. Unlike him, you wont' be haunted by selfish choices...
Do not let HIM determine YOUR happiness. Being upbeat doesn't mean being goofy happy in the face of rudeness.
But inwardly content and pleasant to be around. No moping or lashing out. Anger from you will simply fuel his negatives and help him justify wanting out.
You have to lose the anger, at least in front of him.
I have to sum up now b/c it's late--
So, try to
be a woman only a fool would leave.
And
leave the results up to God.
There is hope. But be disciplined in your DB approach. Don't falter and don't expect results soon.
Consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in.
If you get to a point where YOU feel you cannot "do this" anymore, we get it. We'll cross that bridge if you get to it.
But you are not there today.
(( ))
25years, thank you so much for sharing all of this...it is so helpful and i appreciate it.
It has been somewhat difficult to do 180s and gal here. I cant drive myself due to optic neuritis (ms). H takes me everywhere. When i did have my neighbor come and get me...he did follow me out to kiss me goodbye and acted concerned, then come to find out he was using that opportunity to write ow when i was gone.
I know this is going to sound pathetic, but i dont know how to become the woman he would be a fool to leave, and i'm feeling so low right now because he told me today he loves me because im our d's mother, and has feelings but he is not passionately or deeply in love.
I dont know what to do to change his mind.
I do need to work on me, i do need to gal more, but being in the mountains with no way to take off and drive makes it hard. I honestly think if i leave anyway he wont miss me.
I know i sound lame and really a sad person. He is not interested in me anymore. Knowing he wants to pursue other women makes me feel like there is no hope for me. This is also going to sound crazy but i fear that being apart from him will only solidify his feelings of wanting to be free, but if i make myself more available to him then that's just more of the same. I want to be careful about pulling back because in the past i have done this and dont want to create more problems.
You are right, it is all about him. Every day. I walk on egg shells. I am sweet and pleasent, i dont rock the boat. I try to not cry in front of him....doesnt always happen. He did tell me today he doesnt want to discuss r every day, as it makes him feel more miserable.
At this point its as if im trying to be perfect, act right, try to say and do the right things. Been doing this for nearly 2 months and he still wants out. I dont know what to do differently.
I look like hell, and i cant stand the taste of food. He must look at me as some sad little woman. I hate that. He told me he sees me as my caretaker! Not an equal partner he has passion for. I cant make the ms symptoms go away.
I know i am whiney today. Feeling sorry for myself. I am trying to dig deep and coming up empty.
If he doesnt love me, why does he want to go to counseling. He is saying he is open to the possibility of making us work, but inside he said he feels done with me and wants to move on.
Thanks for "listening". I feel lucky to have this space to vent. Here, at least i feel safe.
A question i wanna throw out here. I AM too available to him and i want to try pulling back a little. In my situation, where i cant just take off and drive...i am wondering what i can do. Going to my room will appear as pouting cause that is what i do when we argue and it would be offputting to him.
Would stopping the following possibly push him away further?
- going to him for a hug
- starting converations
- spending more time outside than indoors where he is
- less talking
I dont want to appear that im pouting...
Hi Ctflor
This is a tricky one isn't it - because it goes to the basis of the WAS need for "freedom" and "independence". You don't want him thinking of you as a "dependent" and you want him to be your H, not your carer.
I wonder if you could explore any new ways for finding your independence regardless of your illness? Are there community support services available you could take advantage of? Groups of people with your illness who you could join?
All your suggestions are good ones (that you should implement immediately) - but it would probably be good for both of you if you could find ways to get out of the house, and on with your life, that doesn't give him an extra obligation.
Think laterally. Talk to your Dr or the MS support group in your local area ... I'm sure there are lots of options that will give you more GAL options, show your H that you love him, but you don't "need" him and importantly, expand your life and provide you more interests.
Take care, V
A question i wanna throw out here. I AM too available to him and i want to try pulling back a little. In my situation, where i cant just take off and drive...i am wondering what i can do. Going to my room will appear as pouting cause that is what i do when we argue and it would be offputting to him.
Would stopping the following possibly push him away further?
first off, it's NOT ALL about him now. What do YOU want? You like walking on egg shells all the time? And he's on his way out the door so pushing him further is NOT likely if you are not nasty to him. Pursuing him has not worked and isn't likely to. What were his exact complaints re to you? Are there things you do, other than pout, that he dislikes?
- going to him for a hug
do NOT go to him for a hug...if he hugs you, mirror back the type of hug HE gives you. Do not appear to want one and do NOT ask for one. Period.
- [b]starting converations
No R talks from you. Period. None...unless you are fine with him leaving.
As for conversations in general, what would the 180 be? Did you read the DB book? I think you said yes. So in there, they talk about doing the new different behavior so if you normally would start the convos, stop it. But if you are an introvert, begin small conversations that are funny or interesting to him. No big expectations attached. Don't put too much pressure on yourself for this. Silence is not the enemy.
- spending more time outside than indoors where he is
Yes^^^
- less talking
[/b]
I dont want to appear that im pouting...
Don't pout. Appear upbeat, hum if you need to or listen to music. Do things with D. You don't have to be talking to prove you are not pouting. Appear pleasant and a bit mysterious.
Read those rules again. And figure out a way to GET OUT b/c this is no way to live anyhow. Your d is watching you and she needs to know to GAL and not expect her spouse to provide all her emotional and social support.
Also, stop all talk about being "in love" or "feeling passion"...
I consider myself to be happily m and I am attracted to my h. But do I feel the same intense passion for him I felt 30 years ago?
No I don't, and I'm not ashamed about that. I think it's normal. Don't get me wrong. It's not a "platonic" relationship, and we have intimacy often. We share a bed and strongly believe in it.
But this focus on "feeling the magic at all times" is Hollywood poop that ruins lives more than it helps. Just my opinion.
Came across more info late last night, this time, not due to my snooping. I don't know how much more, I can take. Another punch to my gut. I'm sitting here, and I just don't know..
Last night I was reading my homework in the chair, and D wakes up crying with leg cramps, so H went to tend to her. But he got up off the computer before closing out his browser... I had to get up and go to the computer to sign in to my classes. I turned on the screen and saw everything in front of me... I KNOW I should not have read anything, but it was very hard for me to look away.
In one journal entry he talks about how he went for a beer with ow when he got off work, and lied to me and said the truck ran out of gas in town and would be late. He went for the beer with her and a group of people to see her off before she left.
And on this entry he wrote, "I was torn up about her leaving, she will be gone for six months. I now have six months to pack up my marriage and get it over with".
So basically... he was planning to get rid of me and D before this girl comes back. He was planning to spend six months trying to hook up with her... and get me and D out of his life. According to the emails I saw, she was barely responsive to his frequent emails and he was acting desperate about her, asking her to write, respond, but she wrote once to tell him how busy she is and did not seem as interested. I know that he started this EA to escape his pain..
But seriously? He had a plan to get rid of me within six months. Wow...
I don't know what to feel here. Feel very sick inside. His plan is almost... I don't know.. evil?
In that same journal entry he wrote, "I hope (ow) will answer my emails, I hope she will like me as much as I do her".
Ok, so this ow he is chasing... does not return the affections he has for her. She has not given him anything but smiles and small talk at work.... he has built up this fantasy about her... and based on his hopes of being with her, he is ready to kick me and his daughter to the curb.
Any thoughts on this?
Thank you so much again, for the responses. I come here to read them when I feel as if I'm slipping off the ledge.
I learned early in my sitch that putting my hand on the hot stove would keep being painful.
What I mean is:
Try not to snoop; nothing good comes from it, and it just increases you pain, anxiety, frustration, depression, the list goes on and on and on.
You cannot control what he does, thinks, feels, wants, plans, this list goes on and on and on as well.
But don't feel helpless. Take care of YOURSELF and D. Don't let your mood, your happiness, your peace of mind, your FUTURE, depend on him. Think of him as an emotional millstone tied to your ankle in the emotional ocean. Don't let that millstone drag you to the bottom; cut the rope.
Once detached, you can think straight and work on what you really want in life.
How do I detach. My focus is already on my d. I'm in school and since finding out about all of this i cant read my assignments. 25years, i am soooo tired of walking on egg shells in my own home.
I feel that if i dont figure out how to detach, i am going to fall completely apart soon. Not eating, not sleeping. The pain is so overwhelming. H just sits and looks at me...almost as if he keeps wishing i'd keel over or just disappear. He looks at me and his eyes are like cold stones with no soul behind it.
I will not snoop again, in a pickle, learned my lesson the hard way.
Ctflor - first I just want to say how sorry I am that this is happening to you. I remember that ledge you speak of very well
I also remember checking verizon website about every :30 mins at work counting the text messages between my H and the OW. The pain and agony. I never thought it would stop.
but it does.
Detaching works! it took me a very very long time to figure it out, but just make yourself do it. In time you will figure it out too. don't be hard on yourself when you are unable to detach. Read all you can on detaching - that helps! listen to the vetrans, they have been there, done that, and you can learn from their mistakes and their triumphs.
Hang in there, it is a long journey. but you can do it, I promise.
(((Ctflor)))
None of us want to believe, in fact we CAN'T believe that the person we've devoted our lives to, the person we expected to be with forever could do these things. My H was the LAST person in the world I could have ever imagined doing what he's done. With that said, whatever they go through, be it MLC, normal aging and unhappiness, or some other syndrome, they aren't themselves. The dark sole-less eyes are a sign that there is something wrong.
Unfortunately there is nothing that you can do to help him get through what he is going through. The OW is a symptom, and regardless of whether this one responds, he may seek out another. I'm sorry, but that seems to be how it works around here.
I'm one of the slower learners here, but I have been around for a long time - and "get" things now and then. I make very tiny baby steps forward. What I can tell you is that you will get through this. You will find a way to cope and you will find strength that you never knew you had. You have to find strength for yourself to get through, and you have to be strong for your D.
Your H is going through something very complicated - something you will never understand (although read as much as you can - the MLC resources on this site are a good start), and something you can't help him with (although you will want to try like the majority of us here have).
Take care of yourself, physically, emotionally and legally. You should consider medical help, an antidepressant or anti-anxiety med. The first thing that will help is being able to sleep and eat. You have to be healthy to be strong for you and D. Find a friend or friends that you can talk to (that won't try to steer you in any direction), and come here and post whatever is on your mind. I can tell you from personal experience, your H doesn't want to hear it. Anything you say to him now will be more fuel to justify what he is doing, thinking of doing or planning down the road. Consider therapy for yourself - talking to someone that can listen without bias is often a HUGE help. And, at some point you will need to think about protecting yourself legally. Trust me, I know how scary this sounds - and you will be hoping and praying to never need legal help, but irrational sole-less people often make very bad decisions in life and protecting yourself and your D needs to come first. I know that you hope and pray that your nightmare will end and your H will wake up and realize what he's doing, and I hope for that for you too. However, being protected and informed is never a bad thing.
You have received very good advice about not snooping and learning to detach - and trust me I've been there too. Feeling like you HAVE to know, that knowing will help - only to find that it doesn't; and feeling like there is no way I can let go. But letting go is important to helping you through this. Read the resources. Listen to those veterans that post here. And.....breathe.
When I first came here I didn't think I could live without my H. I was desperate, like most of us that come here. I gradually learned that I can survive. And you will learn the same thing. It takes time. I'm still very much a work in progress, but it's true what they say around here. DBing is not just about trying to save your M - it's learning how to save yourself, because (especially with MLC) saving your M is hard to do when you are dealing with an alien - but there is a world of things you can do to save yourself.
I am asking myself ...can i live without h. When i examine this, the anxiety is overwhelming and i feel a sense of desperation.
My fear about detaching is...if i do this, he may see it as another reason to get going. He wants to end things because he says he has no chemistry with me.
I need to read the books but i cant buy them or he will see the purchase.
Thank you tamf, starting over. I'm coming her and re-reading everyone's posts often. For some reason im having a tough time either retaining or understanding. Sorry guys! The cloud of fof and anxiety is thick.
I just dont know how to act around him. The pain is so intense. He is trying to avoid seeing me, as in seeing me....he is here but its like he cant look at me.
Should i go ahead and be upbeat and smile...i wonder if he will see it as fake. He knows i am upset.
I just dont know how to act around him. The pain is so intense. He is trying to avoid seeing me, as in seeing me....he is here but its like he cant look at me.
Should i go ahead and be upbeat and smile...i wonder if he will see it as fake. He knows i am upset.
get the book and stop caring if he sees the purchase. What difference will it make? So what if he thinks you are "working on things"? Is it better for him to think you are inexplainably sad?
Meanwhile
I think Ch 1 is online anyhow.
As for acting upbeat...YES not in a goofy fake way but in a way that shows you know you are a good person and you will ultimately be fine no matter what happens.
Oh, you say you don't FEEL that way? Tough.
Fake it til you make it!
It works a lot. And, where the head goes, the heart will follow.Get your head on straight and get a grip on yourself.
When you wonder about acting upbeat it's as if you think that will make it too easy on him.
Thing is, nothing is easier than leaving someone who reeks of neediness and desparation...even if he "stays" a month longer, all he'll recall is his sheer desire to flee.
Is that what you really want? I thought not.
You want him wondering what the heck is going on. And if you think truly that your disease is something that makes you unattractive
you need to find a better support group.
Besides, if you are hoping his sense of duty kicks in, it won't be you trying to manipulate him with pouting or depression.
Fact is, you don't have a lot of choice here.
You need to "woman up" and be as pleasant (but authentic) as you can be.
Also, your d is watching you. Model grace under fire For Her...asap.
And good luck -you are not alone. And you will get through this. I promise.
Ctflor,
I'm sorry you are going through this experience right now. It is unpleasant and there is no way around it. The best that can be said is that in going through it there may be a whole lot to gain for you, if not your M.
Much like donating bone marrow as opposed to a random accident, meaningful pain is a lot easier to endure than pointless suffering.
My fear about detaching is...if i do this, he may see it as another reason to get going. He wants to end things because he says he has no chemistry with me.
Why do you want to continue to allow your well-being to be so enmeshed with someone elses actions?
Do you want your husband to only stay if he is worried about feeling guilty for hurting you?
Do you think that is the most you can expect from a M?
Everyone seems to worry about this - if I detach or GAL or have PMA, will it give permission to my S to move forward in leaving me? I know I did for a while, and it seems like many others do so too.
For me, framing it in terms of my own integrity helped to solidify that shift in thinking. Maybe its different for you.. a lot of people start off doing it because it does less harm than continuing the old dramatizing behavior, but soon discover that "oh, I like myself and my life better this way." And they continue for whatever intrinsic benefits they discover.
Either way - continuing to be attached doesn't make a lot of sense right now: you KNOW that he doesn't have your interests in mind, and you KNOW that he isn't willing to be trustworthy. So why not detach from all of that and stand for yourself rather than wait for him to do it?
Heck - it might shake things up a bit for him.
25...you seem to understand me despite how scattered my posts are.
H poked his head out of the tunnel for awhile last night. I pulled back a little, in a way i havent before. He seemed depressed, and went for a drive. When he got back he said he went to visit with his parents. He looked like he had been crying. I think he is sad over ow. I pulled back a bit and headed out the door for a walk. I came back and he looked like he had been crying more. He asked if i wanted to watch a movie..i said ok.
I paused the movie for a sec to get a drink and i heard him crying... I decided not to pull back too much, but asked him if he was okay. He could barely talk, and finally he said "im a big jerk" i WANTED to say.... Yeah you are but i sat quietly letting him talk with no interferance.
He told me he is feeling guilt... And feels torn between his feelings of wanting to go and his feelings of compassion for me. Instead of begging, pleading...or using his low point to try and change his mind...i just said, dont worry about me, i will be fine. He just looked at me...as if he was a little surprised to hear me say it.
He said..."im feeling too much. I dont know what to do..." and cried more. We sat in silence and i said, if its too much, then lets let it ride tonight. Not everything has to be figured out tonight. He seemed comforted by this...and calmed down. Finished the movie.
After, he kept hanging around to talk...about regular stuff. After the past few weeks of him not wanting my company he was sort of reaching out. When he hugged me goodnight...it was a long intense hug.
He is definitely processing some things...but, i am expecting he will be back in the tunnel tomorrow.
Before all this happened, i had been reading the threads on detachment!
Any thoughts on what that was with h?
Thanks 25' the straight talk is a blessing.
By the way im starting to practice mirroring.
I just wanted to affirm and validate what you have been doing. You are listening and learning. Fantastic.
Ct, you're doing great for it being just two months from bomb day. (I was a basket case for it seems like forever.)
I just want you to know detachment is not 100% a will power decision and then it happens instantly. It is more a natural process that takes time coupled with your own determination. The time is different for different people.
You're psyche one day reaches a point where enough is enough and the negative emotions get ratcheted back a little at a time. That usually coinsides with the realization that you can survive and even thrive if the M ultimately fails. The M no longer has a firm grip on your future happiness.
Then you can think straight, set some goals, evaluate the sitch. It looks like your H is on the proverbial fence. You have a better shot than many at saving the M ie. not the old M but making a better/new one. But for pete's sake - detach first, it's healthier for you and ultimately for all.
Pic.
Chaos, those are painful questions... But i do have to wonder if my past plays a part in my desperation to hold on to my h... I'm about to get personal here.
1. My dad walked out on me and my mom when i was d's age (7) as a child i waited and cried for him to come home every day and one day just gave up.
2. My own mom after her divorce went on to date the most unreliable and abusive men as i was growing up. There was no stability
3. I married right out of high school, and in that 11 year marriage he cheated on me behind my back until i caught him.
4. My 2nd marriage ended up falling apart once he started hitting me about two years in.
5. Then i met my current h online. We communicated for two years until we met. He treated me so good for many years...and when we lost our home in ca and moved to be near his family...this is where the slow downward spiral began i think because we have not really been happy here, yet he is too afraid to move back. With both of us depressed and unhappy...the break between us happened somewhere.
I feel as if i am a huge failure. Seriously? I cant make one marriage work. I'm 43 yo. If i cant get it right even once... And no i really dont want another failed marriage. I dont want my d living that pain i am all too familiar with.
Maybe my willingness to take lies and emotional abuse comes from that child in me who is still waiting on the front step each day hoping her dad will show up. I know i have abandonment issues...and dang it....h knew going into this my past. He promised me he would never lie, cheat...well....promises mean nothing.
H told me last month im holding on because im afraid to be thrown into the void. Maybe its that and maybe its just cause i love fhis man and cant see life without him.
Thanks pickle, beatrice.
I figured he would go back into the tunnel today and i was right. But h did come to me to talk a little. He said
1. I want to come to some resolution regarding the outcome. I cant help how i feel about wanting to be free.
2. If i didnt want to be here i would have just walked out.
3. I cant go through heavy emotional crap every day, i need you to relax
4. I want to find a way to be happy with you but i dont think i can.
I asked him if there was anything about me he wished i would change....and he said no, that there was nothing wrong with me...
Here is the thing....obviously he is not happy with me, and something must be wrong that needs to change. He is giving me nothing to go on.
I want to change what is wrong...how does one do this if you dont know.
Right now i'm going to keep working at gal.
I feel a sense of desperation to start doing everything right. Look, talk, act the way he woulf find pleasing. Do anything thar would make him happy or love me again.
I know i cant, but im in the dark ....and i have this one shot at making this work and i dont know what angle or approach to use.
Is this where i keep pulling back?
I read your posts, and I think that there are a number of things going on here.
One is that your h definitely seems to be having some sort of MLC, and that is nothing to do with you.
But you do seem to have some very understandable co-dependence issues with men - if you can recognise and continue to deal with these you will have a happier and more fulfilled life, regardless of what your h does. Your pattern is getting better though isn't it? This husband has been a much more reliable man to date, and let's face it, we are all here because our partner is having a crisis, so you are no different from anyone else in that respect.
He has his own problems which only he can resolve. You can maybe help or hinder the process some, but the changes need to be for you, and not to get him back.
You sound as if you have survived a most difficult childhood, two abusive marriages that you had the courage to recover from, health issues and now this. You are a survivor, and this is something to be very proud of.
You are not a failure, That is your perspective, but i see someone who has dealt with real problems and is looking at how to move forward in a positive way.
H told me last month im holding on because im afraid to be thrown into the void. Maybe its that and maybe its just cause I love fhis man and can't see life without him.
Like I said, it takes time.
Feeling like you've "failed" is also part of the process.
You have not failed.
In a business partnership if one partner gambles away all the capital and the business folds, the other partner is not responsible for anyone else's flaws.
We all have to move beyond and understand the "emotions" in order to heal from the pain and "detach". The feelings are devastating; we've all experienced them; and you know that already. But it is difficult to work on a M or much else from this emotional place.
Godspeed
Pic
I feel a sense of desperation to start doing everything right. Look, talk, act the way he woulf find pleasing. Do anything thar would make him happy or love me again.
Ctflor,
I want to respond to your earlier response, but this stood out to me as a problematic stance to be in.
You can't walk on eggshells and remain in a satisfying loving relationship for life.
Perhaps yes, the answer right now may be to pull back. Not to get him to pull forward, but to disentangle your emotions from his responses and behaviors.
Start to just look at yourself and who YOU would love. Who would YOU find pleasing? What do YOU want to do in YOUR time on this earth?
Yes, you've defined at least one part of yourself -- you want to be in a committed monogamous relationship. I don't think that is really in question here.
What about everything else? Friends? Family? Lifestyle? Health? Spirituality? Can you start to try and define these for yourself in the present in a way that isn't about negotiating with your H for his affections and approval?
Chaos, you are right...i need to be doing these things. I am stuck in fear and hopelessness. Everything is slipping away. My hopes and dreams. The promises he has broken keep stinging me today. I go from crying to being angry with him. He is so far away now i cant reach him.
I'm so sad today. The gap widens between us. My grip on him has been tight. The more i see that i MUST let go, the pain takes over and im pulled under.
I want to smile again, laugh, and feel happy. I want it to be with my h...i am caught up in thinking of old memories, when we met, married, and all the things we did together. I want him to bring his heart back to me....i want this pain to end today. I want him to walk up to me and tell me what a fool he is and how he wants us back.
These are the things i am struggling to let go of. I miss him so much. He is sitting on the other end the sofa watching tv....but he is thousands of miles away.
He mourns the loss of ow as i mourn the loss of him. She is living in another country.. He told me the other night she never returned his affections. He is like a love sick teenager, who built up a fantasy that crashed in on him.
You are so right chaos....im entangled in this huge mess.
Detachment works by starting to focus only on me and my d? I guess i will fake it till it happens.
Thanks all, for your listening to me here.
H told me last month im holding on because im afraid to be thrown into the void. Maybe its that and maybe its just cause I love fhis man and can't see life without him.
Like I said, it takes time.
Feeling like you've "failed" is also part of the process.
You have not failed.
In a business partnership if one partner gambles away all the capital and the business folds, the other partner is not responsible for anyone else's flaws.
We all have to move beyond and understand the "emotions" in order to heal from the pain and "detach". The feelings are devastating; we've all experienced them; and you know that already. But it is difficult to work on a M or much else from this emotional place.
Godspeed
Pic
one comment about "failure"...
if my m were to end today, does that mean the 30 YEARS OF M WE HAVE EXPERIENCED,
HAVE ALL FAILED?
Or could it mean 25 were great and the last 5 failed?
OR maybe just the last one? See where I'm going with this?
Point is, you can't wipe OUT ALL the other stuff you've done b/c one person decides to end a relationship. It's ONE relationship...with 2 people in it.
Make sense?
Chaos, you are right...i need to be doing these things. I am stuck in fear and hopelessness. Everything is slipping away. My hopes and dreams. The promises he has broken keep stinging me today. I go from crying to being angry with him. He is so far away now i cant reach him.
I'm so sad today. The gap widens between us. My grip on him has been tight. The more i see that i MUST let go, the pain takes over and im pulled under.
I want to smile again, laugh, and feel happy. I want it to be with my h...i am caught up in thinking of old memories, when we met, married, and all the things we did together. I want him to bring his heart back to me....i want this pain to end today. I want him to walk up to me and tell me what a fool he is and how he wants us back.
Reading this from you brings me back to 1 year ago. It could be me writing what you wrote (it is/was all of us actually), evvery single thought centered around him, your m, your family. And now today I don't feel that pain - I only have memories of the pain. It will get better, only time will help you. and working on your own happiness. and taking care of D. right now you need to focus on other things - I know you think this is impossible - but it can help. read a book, watch a movie, go for a walk. KEEP BUSY.
good luck (((hug)))
I feel a sense of desperation to start doing everything right. Look, talk, act the way he woulf find pleasing. Do anything thar would make him happy or love me again.
Ctflor,
I want to respond to your earlier response, but this stood out to me as a problematic stance to be in.
You can't walk on eggshells and remain in a satisfying loving relationship for life.
Perhaps yes, the answer right now may be to pull back. Not to get him to pull forward, but to disentangle your emotions from his responses and behaviors.
Start to just look at yourself and who YOU would love. Who would YOU find pleasing? What do YOU want to do in YOUR time on this earth?
Yes, you've defined at least one part of yourself -- you want to be in a committed monogamous relationship. I don't think that is really in question here.
What about everything else? Friends? Family? Lifestyle? Health? Spirituality? Can you start to try and define these for yourself in the present in a way that isn't about negotiating with your H for his affections and approval?
what they said^^^^....
nothing turns a man off more than a woman trying to be change/be inauthentic to please him, (and then 2nd guessing herself on and on...)
Not appealing to him, and not a happy place for YOU!
Be your best you. Be your happiest you.
Leave the results up to God.
Ctflor,
1. My dad walked out on me and my mom when i was d's age (7) as a child i waited and cried for him to come home every day and one day just gave up.
2. My own mom after her divorce went on to date the most unreliable and abusive men as i was growing up. There was no stability
3. I married right out of high school, and in that 11 year marriage he cheated on me behind my back until i caught him.
4. My 2nd marriage ended up falling apart once he started hitting me about two years in.
5. Then i met my current h online. We communicated for two years until we met. He treated me so good for many years...and when we lost our home in ca and moved to be near his family...this is where the slow downward spiral began i think because we have not really been happy here, yet he is too afraid to move back. With both of us depressed and unhappy...the break between us happened somewhere.
It sounds like you are describing a pattern of experiences in which you feel like you had negative or disappointing interactions with men in relation to either you or your mother. I can see how its possible those are affecting the way you approach your current relationship.
Do you feel like these experiences have in some way shaped the way you perceive relationships and more importantly, the way you perceive yourself and your role as a co-constructor of the relationship?
In speaking to your feelings of being a failure, I wonder why you are willing to let your husband's behavior be the thing that judges who you are?
Perhaps taking some time to really work on defining who you are, and the kind of relationship you want to be in, is in order.
As far as item #5 goes -- it's possible your H could have ended up in the same place no matter where you moved, if thats where his thinking, beliefs, and assumptions were to take him. Of course stress can play a huge role in what people do and what people think. Depression can make it very difficult for people to see all of their options and possibilities, even when cognitively they KNOW there are things they could do.
Yes, Divorce can potentially mess with a kid's head. This is pretty much accepted. But so does cancer, suicide, fire, drug abuse.. etc.. Children possess tremendous resilience and ability to adapt. Your daughter is just beginning to gain concrete reasoning skills and is still constructing the world around her in her head. The more you can help her see, in her language, your resilience and your self-definition/presence, the better. Raised by an awesome mom, she may well thrive.
The more i see that i MUST let go, the pain takes over and im pulled under.
Suppose you were to reframe this: You aren't letting go of him. You are letting go of your emotional enmeshment to him.
You are letting go of letting the person who is pursuing OW be such a huge factor in your emotional well being.
You are letting go of letting him hurt you.
It sounds like you are struggling with your desires for this not to be happening. Although it would be nice, it seems like these desires (or the shift back to reality) leads you to experience further pain.
I understand that you want to smile, laugh, be happy. What else can you describe that might define who you are and the life that you want to lead?
Detachment works by starting to focus only on me and my d? I guess i will fake it till it happens.
Only focusing on you and your D is a very good idea.
Detachment works by accepting that your emotional well-being always really lies inside of you.
"Happiness is always an inside job" as they like to say.
You are hurting right now. Totally normal. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't fight that pain. If you can start to look at it as an opportunity for growth and development, you may be able to not only become intimately familiar with it - you may realize that whatever the pain is, you are tolerating it already and that you can start to make decisions without fear of it being the major motivator.
25years, thanks for clarifying that. It truly put it in a different perspective. I keep reading in the db material that i must change...or become like ow. Maybe i took it too literal. I prefer to be myself, with improvements that are me.
Tamph, thank you...this gives me hope. I keep finding myself hit with overwhelming sadness and crying most of the night. Not crying in front of h.
Chaos, once again you hit the nail on the head. You pose a lot of questions i need to think about. Not letting go of him, but the emotional enmeshment. I have built my life around him the past decade. At one point i think our emotions ran very deeply together. Now, my run deep and he is trying to extricate himself. I hate this, i know its true. There is a co dependency that developed.
I can say it in my mind what i must do, but in my heart...
Letting go of letting him hurt me.... Powerful stuff
You are exactly right... I keep saying this is not happening, dont want to believe it, or revelation about other woman. Anxiety builds, reality slams into me and the waves of pain start hitting me in the gut. I can barely eat since i found out about ow. I try and food tastes bad. I usually enjoy food..and have a healthy appetite. I guess this is normal.
Really, i just feel like im trapped in a nightmare and i want out.
I sit here wondering....if he wants to go so bad, wants to be free as he keeps telling me...why is he still here willing to go to mc?
Thank you all....from my heart, i truly appreciate you.
I can say it in my mind what i must do, but in my heart...
I'd be worried if you
weren't experiencing heartache.
Now, my run deep and he is trying to extricate himself. I hate this, i know its true. There is a co dependency that developed.
Why do you think that your relationship was co-dependent?
You are exactly right... I keep saying this is not happening, dont want to believe it, or revelation about other woman. Anxiety builds, reality slams into me and the waves of pain start hitting me in the gut. I can barely eat since i found out about ow. I try and food tastes bad. I usually enjoy food..and have a healthy appetite. I guess this is normal.
girlfriend, I am going to try and put a smile on your face wtih what I am about to say - I am not trying to minimize what you are going though ok? but...
the best thing to happen to me through this whole process? I lost 22lbs in 2 months and i look GOOD! nothing beats a separation/marriage problem diet - NOTHING!! 
shoot the first sign that I was actually really happy again I gained weight! I was standing on the scale and thought darn it - where is the anxiety that made me not eat!lol!
one day you 2 will laugh about your "diet" that helped make you look amazing! Now if you are going to come back and say that you are already skinny, well then, boo. I don't have any way of putting a smile on your face!
H said he wanted to talk to me...and i think the conversation was good, but i am left trying to understand a few things on where he is coming from.
Some of the things he said...
1. I havent made up my mind yet, and i want to stay and try mc, then go from there.
2. I will be honest even if it hurts
3. I won't pursue anyone else while we are giving it another try/mc
4. I'm tired of the day to day existance of our lives here
5. I dont have chemistry with you. We talk, laugh, and enjoy each others company but i dont have sexual feelings. We share a bond, but its not passion.
6. Its not you, its me
7. I have been depressed and sometimes cant make it through the day at work
8. I dont want to see you suffer or hurt, i worry about you
9. I just want to be free, im changing, and i cant shove it down anymore, but im not ready to leave, i want to try this but i think everything will stay the same
10. I dont think i can get my needs met inside the marriage because i want to be alone. I will do what the mc suggests and try to bring me closer but i cant pretend with you if my feelings dont change.
At this point i validated his feelings and painfully accepted them for the first time to him. He actually called his feelings stupid, but i said no, they are not and as much as your feelings hurt me, i see they are genuine and very real.
Lots of crying, him and me both. He was in a mood to talk and not be distant which is good.
I did ask him, what can i change about our daily existance that would make you happy? What can i improve about me.... And he said he didnt know, cause he just wants to be free. And he said there was nothing wrong with me. That im fine. Then he explained that he thought he started to like ow because she seemed to take the misery away. He said he has dropped her because she wasnt responding to him when he tried pursuing her, and didnt want to look ridiculous.
He wants to be in love again and have passion but does not feel it with me naturally. Its not exciting anymore. I explained how this is normal in long term relationships and that it takes two to work on it but he feels it should flow natural and not something you work at.
Ok so, here is what i am confused on... If there is nothing wrong with me, why pursue ow? How can i know what to improve on in order to save my marriage other than gal?
Please, any thoughts on what my h is saying....and my next steps?
Chaos, i think we are co dependent because we are both not big social creatures, and we have been through so much together i think we clung a little. We both have family issues and backgrounds. When he said he wanted to start going out with friends i was surprised but not angry. I just hate feeling threatened ny other women. Today he said, "you dont want me talking to other women at work, but i see men and women who are married, sitting together and talking...its normal" i said it is normal, but to pursue a r with one is wrong...and he did agree on that.
I guess if you are not happy in your m, you will he tempted by females at the work place.
Tamf, that did put a smile on my face
i cannot deny that dropping all this weight has been a bad thing. It almost signifies something....dropping pounds and dropping old ways. And yeah i had some weifht to lose lol
Tried practicing a bit of pulling back and the response seemed favorable.
I didnt act clingy as usual
I went outside alone for awhile until he came looking for me
I kept busy, instead of just planting myself in the living room
I kept positive and a little upbeat but not too upbeat where its fake
I mirrored. When he got talkative, when he hugged me, when he said he loves me, when he smiled a little....i mirrored him. Hope he doesnt catch on to that.
I turned up some music and sang while doing dishes
I went for a moonlight walk
I did my homework for school
When i felt tears coming on i went where no one could see it. I wanted the evening to be relaxed and cheerful.
The end result of my positive energy was, he seemed a little more drawn by me. He didnt want to go to bed..and kept hanging on to talk about his old hkes he took long ago. He hugged and kissed me in a way that felt closer.
I didnt do any major pulling back, it was just slight.
He looked as if he had been crying when he came home from work...and later when i got back from my walk his eyes were red and puffy. I did not pressure him to talk, i simplynaskes if he was ok and he nodded.
Nice work CTF,
good job.
Now you are getting it, so why not Try setting up some doable goals for the short term and then mid term, long term etc??
The short term goals especially, need to be measurable.
Like having 5 min of conversation without conflict...
an evening of no R talk or fighting.
(that can take a long time, but you already have one under your belt!)
essentially you want him to feel comfortable and "safe" around you.
If he's bombarded with guilt or a sense of burdensome duty
well, that's NOT feeling comfortable or safe. Let him relax.
That does NOT mean you must fix him when he's not happy. Back off.
If he is wracked with guilt, don't rescue him. That is not your job and not helping your cause.
I am not into guilting him but the one thing worse than using guilt to manipulate is fixing or repairing the guilt he feels for mistreating you and d..
I think you get it. So now, build another, and then another. They won't all be linear and you'll have some backslides but keep those few, far between and NOT too big.
If an R talk comes up, change the topic.
Be "too busy to discuss that right now", etc.
The easier it is for him to be around you, the less he'll feel the "need to be free"...make sense?
Did you find a support group thru your doctor or local resources? This is something you need to do even if the m were fine. Check out resources in the area for meeting people, getting transportation, etc.
How about a GAL activity?
I cannot stress the GAL enough...please... sounds as if a GAL activity for you would also be a 180, so you're killing two birds with one stone. Lucky!
well, it's late and I"m tired. But keep on keeping on!
Nice work CTF,
good job.
How about a GAL activity?
I cannot stress the GAL enough...please... sounds as if a GAL activity for you would also be a 180, so you're killing two birds with one stone. Lucky!
CTF - everything 25yearmlc said!! as I was reading your post I was thinking the exact same thing ^^^^^^^^^. GAL!
If you are not exciting enough - go out with friends and be excited! I am NOT saying go out to flirt or anything, just go have a night out with your best girlfriend...come home late! Be happy and excited when you come home.
Right now you are the woman at home that has established this routine that has become stale and old to him. spice things up! and like 25 said, "you will be killing 2 birds with one stone!"
Go have some fun! you need it for you!!!
Thanks 25 & tamf
My gal attempt was spoiled last night...or..maybe i allowed it to be. Once again i lost control of my emotions.
My neighbor and i made plans to go see a movie, except she needed to take our car. Once h got home from work, he kissed and hugged me goodbye and out the door we went. We got into the car and as it started a cd began playing. I took it out to put in another and realized it was a copy of one of the cds he made for ow's going away gift.
Tightness came over my chest and my heart pounded. You know, i had already known anout the cd before and asked him not to keep it in OUR car out of respect. He said he would. I didnt want to go to town after that but i forced myself. But thats not all....
As we are nearing into town my friend says something is poking her outer leg by the seat. She pulls over to a parking lot ...and we look for the source of what is poking her. Its a spiral notebook end, caught on her skirt, stuck between the console and seat. As i carefully lift it out...papers fall out...and wouldnt you know...i looked at what it was. One had some poem he had written for ow....describing how he misses talking to her....etc.
There was another page that had a list of things he needed to pack when he moves out...but that list was old...made two days before he dropped the bomb. I saw other pages but i stopped myself there, gathered it up put it in the notebook and out of my sight. This didnt help. I got extremely upset and felt sick. I just wanted to go home. I couldnt pull myself together, and all the way home my friend is going off saying i need to kick him out etc.
All i could think was...how is h going to focus on our marriage if he is still holding on to ow. I felt betrayed all over again...because he told me he would.
Before reaching home, i had calmed down and decided i was not going to say anything. But then he really angered me. He said...with much dissapointment and nastiness..."you're back already? I barely got and hour here". I crumbled and i went off and explained why i was back. Then he got angry and said to stop spying and let him work out his feelings. I told him to keep the cds and his stuff about ow out of our car. He then got quiet and said...he was trying to work out his feelings, and said that since he is not writing her or calling her ...He needed to listen to those songs and write. For a moment i felt like the mother of a teenager. I felt my anger lessen. Then he started in about how ow probably saw him as pathetic anyway...and how embarassed he felt to have to write and tell her he was sorry for dragging her into his problems. I told him that i felt like i wqsnt getting a fair chance here if he was going to focus on her. And he said ...it wasnt just about her...
I dont understand.....and please someone clue me in...
Why is he mourning this girl when she has never reciprocated his feelings...lives in another country...has her own life there now. Why is he so willing to throw everything over for this fantasy?
How will i have a fair chance with my h if he focuses on her?
I know i broke every db rule tonight ::sigh::
I dont know if he will let this fantasy he built up go....and if he cant im worried we wont make it.
I feel like im competing with this force.
ctf
put a helmet on.
The reason he's stuck on her isn't about HER. It's about HIM and it's about how you guys live.
What do I mean? Well
the way YOU describe your life and the way you say you behave around your h
is, I'm sorry to say, something I would tire of.
When you describe your utter terror at the thought of losing someone who has mistreated you now for awhile,
You've made it sound as if you are super needy and dependent on him,
and in that sense, you bring little to the table but your needs...(which = his guilt).
Sometimes, I can see why your h's needs as a man, and lover and as a dynamic individual were not met...and why he wants to feel free.
Even though we all struggle with the desire for freedom...as long as some of our needs are met, it is usually manageable.
When you meet your own needs, you'll be able to bring something to the table.
I'm not saying he's being a great guy or that you are supposed to just take it...but dang, back off and take a hard look at yourself to figure out if you really are addressing things that were missing in the marriage before OW came along.
It's clearly not about THEIR R since she didn't reciprocate. But he got a glimpse of another way to live. What do you think about that?
Without talking about it, perhaps there's something you can do to have a piece of that in your life...
some romance, something other than how your illness prevents you AND him from...what?? Running marathons?
Okay, but are there things that have been neglected too much for too long?
What can YOU do that's different?
((( )))
I seriously appreciate your honesty...! Thank you! You are right about a few things here. I can see why he would tire of me..i do see where he has been more in a caretaker role too.
I know the disconnect happened after d was born. The romance..the intimacy dwindled. He became detached and I remember asking him often to be intimate but he didnt really want to. We both were under stress. Then the time came after moving here where he wanted to be intimate...but i wasnt in the mood for it.
I have been looking at my fault in this and i accept my side of mistakes. I guess i'm so wrapped up in his ea and the pain of it.
We both have each neglected one another at some point. And ....i am sure it was all adding up to this moment. You are right, 25....he glimpsed a life he would like to have. I hope it's not too late for us. I don't know 25...if he were flat done...maybe he would have already left...maybe he is waiting around for awhile to see what can change.
Thanks for giving me a different perspective.
What i need to do is
Continue gal
Give space/back off
Stop being confrontational
Relax
I think now i understand what he meant when he said he needed a woman that is strong. He told me he saw me as strong from what i physically endure. I didnt get it at the time, but he must have meant someone who is emotionally strong, confident, etc.
He doesnt want to be intimate...and has said if it feels right to him he will. I stopped asking or trying about six weeks ago because i wouldnt pressure him for it.
Man... I am so sad right now. How pathetic do i look on this forum.
I'm open to more suggestions on how i need to conduct myself with h...cause really...i havent been thinking straight.
I think this is my last shot with h, and i dont want to blow it. I think he is hanging around hopeful that something will change. He gives me nothing to go on when i ask him what a change would look like. Says he doesnt know...just wants to be free.
I dont think the break down is all my fault...but if i can work at myself and how i'm acting around h...maybe theres a chance for us.
Ct,
You do not look pathetic at all. You did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. Now that you know better, you can do better.
That's what is so great about this site. The vets who have stuck around do the great service of passing down what they've learned and experienced on their own journeys.
Hang in there. It does get better.
Ct,
You do not look pathetic at all. You did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. Now that you know better, you can do better.
That's what is so great about this site. The vets who have stuck around do the great service of passing down what they've learned and experienced on their own journeys.
Hang in there. It does get better.
CTF,
Don't despair...for one thing, it's more of the same. But keep your eye on the ball b/c this is a learning experience and mistakes will be made.
As the 12 steppers say
"Dear God, help me see that mistakes are not tragedies -- but please help me learn from them!"And I was as "pathetic" and bitter as anyone here, but a lot more verbal about it!! So what happened?
IN short-
I worked on myself and I changed.
Then the way I interacted with h changed (example below).
Then h changed, and THEN our m entered the phase of piecing, for well over a year.
Then we attended Retrovaille.
For the first time in 5 years, I felt safe in my marriage again--NOT COMPLACENT, but safe...and
there's a big fat difference that is one of the most valuable things I learned here.
That is the summation of my situation in 5 lines or less.
Anyway, pursuant to some great DB coaching advice I got at the time, here's a small but telling
example of a change I made in the m and an "almost fight". The way I saw things and reacted were different, and so was h's reaction, and so on...
Below, here's a little but telling example.
Before the MLC, H was our bill payer. He routinely paid ahead of time or on time.
Never late.
After he left, he stopped this AND he didn't mention to me, that he would only pay the mortgage...
So to my shock and dismay,
the same day wildfires nearby were forcing evacuations, the Power guy came to turn off our electricity for unpaid bills...lovely...
So I wrote a HUGE check (with penalty added...nice touch)
and when h called later on about the fires, I told him about the utitlies getting nearly turned off.
His first reaction was about HIS credit being affected...after which I almost hung up...
but when I asked about the bill paying situation, so I'd know, he said something
in anticipation of me blasting him-
(which was fair b/c it's definitely what I would have done, had it not been for my DB coach session that morning...)H said "Now YOU get to pay the bills every month, like I've done for the past 20 years!"
and I said "yes, and I want to THANK YOU for that, b/c it Is a stressful chore to do."
He paused for
at least 10 seconds, and then replied, "um, you're welcome."
See how different that conversation went?
DB coach had told me to do something I found very very hard to do,
as in Mother Teresa hard...(but unfortunately that says a lot more about how bitter I had become, than how jerky my h was)...
She said to
"applaud loudly for the 1% positives h does"....
to
"Lose the anger, in front of him" and to set reasonable boundaries BUT
"
Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth"....
while balancing your own needs in the picture, don't make it harder for them to return, than it already will be...or is...
Hope this helps.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I had a terrible day. I went to bed sad and woke up sad. I tried everything to shake it off.
What is really interesting is...you were right. 100%. I was in the bedroom alone, crying... and h walked in, saw me, had a big sigh and walked out. As he walked out he said he was tired of me feeling sorry for myself. I said nothing, although his comment really hurt.
I walked down the hall to go up the stairs and I heard him talking to himself and he said "love me love me love me....i neeeeed you" and then he said (expletive) ing unappealing.".
Went back downstairs thinking of your post and the timing of it. Then he came down and said he wanted to say something, and he said "you keep asking me what you can do to change. There is nothing you can do...its not you, its me and i just dont feel in love, i cant give you what you want from me. Im willing to do the counseling but I dont want you getting up your hopes".
I just sat and listened and nodded, and i asked him if we could not talk about r anymore till counseling. And he agreed.
25, i used to be a strong woman...used to be a ballet dancer and performer. I used to feel good about myself, and since i had my d....its been all about her and all about h. There are not a lot of resources here...and when winter comes, it will be difficult.
I have to keep gal w/ the limitations.
Need to stop being needy... Dependent... Etc.
Before he went to sleep, he hugged me and said i love you, and this time i didnt know if i should say ot back.
One reason i felt sad was his words echoing in my head.
I dont feel passion foe you
Im not attracted
I love you but...
Keeps playing in my head to the point where i feel defeated
One reason i felt sad was his words echoing in my head.
I dont feel passion foe you
Im not attracted
I love you but...
Keeps playing in my head to the point where i feel defeated
Taking yourself at your h's evaluation isn't doing you any favours. He is messed up right now and not thinking straight. Those negative voices play into our feelings of worthlessness. We are not worthless, but wonderful loving people who are here, getting help and advice form others. What are our spouses doing - indulging in self destructive and unkind behaviours, and we are allowing them to make us feel bad. Doesn't make sense does it?
Please do not go there. Approve of yourself, love yourself, value yourself. You are a terrific person battling for your marriage, and not giving in to what a crazy person currently thinks.
A husband worthy of you would be sorry you feel sad, not exasperated.
Thanks Beatrice for remindimg me of this.
I just don't understand....
He constantly tells me he loves me....as he always has. Before bed, before he goes to work, when he comes home....and sometimes before running an errand. And he hugs me...usually close hugs, some lasting awhile...
But...
He is not in love with me
Does not feel passion
Will not be intimate
I feel glad he still does this, and, its not fake, i can tell that...i just dont understand this behavior and dont know how to react when he acts mean then says i love you. I know...i need to stop rationalizing.
I'm going to take today to pull myself away from him and focus on me and d.
I want to be happy today even if he is not.
Read all the MLc stuff - your h is doing the classic script, except he is nicer and more self aware than most!
The MLcer no longer feels 'in love'. This is an integral part of their crisis - that they need to feel in love. It is a form of escapism form their current reality, which they aren't enjoying
Hang in there, it is a rollercoaster ride.
ctflor
what is your medical condition and its' status now (remission, flare up, etc.)?
and where do you live (generally speaking) that you cannot avail yourself of resources?
And can you move to a place where there are PEOPLE??
I'm in remitt/remissive stage. My attacks come and go with pain, but the optic neuritis is an on going issue to where I won't drive. I'm 30 min away from the nearest town and even there, there arent a lot of resources. When it starts snowing up here we are more house bound.
We were going to move this coming spring, but once he went into mlc and met ow at work...he changed his mind.
I'm desperate to get out of here...very unhappy in the area and so was he, which is why we made plans to go. From what I read, he Believes that if he is free, ow might have him. She is to return in jan or feb....and although he says he is not biding his time here i think hes staying because of that.
I have already told him this is my last winter here and he didnt say anything to that.
ctflor, my H and yours could be twins!
CTflor, you asked me if I used any of the DB techniques.
I did, but like you, I had such a difficult time because i was, and am co-dependent on my H, and he with me.
TI was riding the coaster so hard with him.
But the only thing really that has helped me get through was to detach somehow, although I always backslide, but that was the only way to get through each day.
My H actually was quite self-aware, just like yours.
All I can say, from my experience, is that you have to be strong, don't show him your tears.
MLC spouses think differently. Even just watching what they do, looking at them when they are on the phone or computer is "control".
That longing for freedom is such an illogical ache in their brains. Everything we say is an attck on them, is a meddling, is control.
I think if you read my threads, and the advice from the vets, you might glean somethings.
But I myself just recently backslid hugely, mainly because of D12, and to think I have been doing this for a year now.
Hang in there, it will get better, trust me.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I had a terrible day. I went to bed sad and woke up sad. I tried everything to shake it off.
What is really interesting is...you were right. 100%. I was in the bedroom alone, crying... and h walked in, saw me, had a big sigh and walked out. As he walked out he said he was tired of me feeling sorry for myself.
and I heard him talking to himself and he said "love me love me love me....i neeeeed you" and then he said (expletive) ing unappealing.".
Went back downstairs thinking of your post and the timing of it. Then he came down and said he wanted to say something, and he said "you keep asking me what you can do to change. There is nothing you can do..
He believes you cannot change so he's not going to bother asking, then hoping, and then not seeing it. To him it seems unfair.
25, i used to be a strong woman...used to be a ballet dancer and performer. I used to feel good about myself,
Get back to HER^^^^....yes you can. I'm not saying get on stage and join the Bolshoi, but you can be strong again and feel good about yourself.
You are still YOU!
and since i had my d....its been all about her and all about h.
Change that^^^ dynamic is not good for you, or h, or d, or the marriage. You see that now? That taking care of you is NOT selfish; it's healthy and needed.
[b]
There are not a lot of resources here...and when winter comes, it will be difficult.[/b]
Why do you live there? Can you improve your transportation problems in the short run and get the heck out of there in the long run? No one in the family sounds happy out there...
I have to keep gal w/ the limitations.
Need to stop being needy... Dependent... Etc.
yes you must do this^^^. And insert some positives in there, like things you WILL DO are as important as things you won't do. Make sense?
Before he went to sleep, he hugged me and said i love you, and this time i didnt know if i should say ot back.
I don't know what to say about that. Maybe reciprocate when he says it first...or say "thanks" or say nothing... Maybe the db coach has an idea.
Sometimes it's best to say "I'm sure there's a perfect response to that statement h, but it escapes me right now."
((( )))
Thanks Angel & 25,
Angel, maybe our h's are twins? lol I don't know... I think I feel similar to you in that my co depedency is lending to a bigger problem. I don't want to be on the roller coaster, and when I get off I find myself back on.
25, Your advice has truly been helpful... I mean, I'm looking at things in a different way on what I need to be doing just for me. It woke me up.
I was thinking today when I was out for a walk and I wondered about approaching h calmly in a few days and talking to him about my future, as in my possible future alone if things didn't work out. I want to talk to him about my lack of resources here, and how much I want to be standing on my own feet and not lean on him. I want to tell him that, as we go through mc, I'd like to also be in a better position where I'm living in a place that can offer me more. Public transportation, schools for D, (we have to homeschool now), more job opportunities for when I graduate. I have to do my practicum eventually.
I want to ask him if he will consider moving to a more populated area, as we go through mc, and see what happens. Also want to tell him that I wouldn't see the move as a definitive on our relationship. I want him to know he has the door open ... and if he's truly not happy he has an option for himself.
I'm just really afraid of being stuck up here... and I need to be strong ... I don't feel I can be strong up here when there is nothing for me should I need to move on with my own life.
I don't know if this is a bad idea... but I'm brainstorming thinking of d and I.
I have a Q...
My h took up smoking... he knows I know he smokes. I've seen the pack in the car... and I don't make a big deal of it. He once said he felt ashamed about his smoking.
I know about it.. I don't really care about it, so why does he continue hiding the packs of cigs?
I have NOT snooped! I promise. But I can smell it real strong in the garage and car.
Is he hiding it because that's his way of being in control, to hide things from me?
I also promise I won't say a word about it to him. I'm learning the hard way.
when we lived in the interior of Alaska it was hard in the winter. HARD AS HELL...incomprehensible cold, and hours and hours of darkness and so few people...
I know what that's like and I live near a large city in southern Calif for a reason.
The move could help ALL of you and in any event, the more independent you AND D are, the less burdened he'll feel. That can't be a bad thing. But don't connect it to marrriage
say it's to help prepare for either way as if you are preparing for both ways
which you have to do anyhow.
I could be wrong, but from my stand point it seems like a good idea to move in closer. For ALL concerned. Give your d something else to focus on and helps her GAL too...
(( ))
25, don't want to give too much info out...i was born in anchorage and lived 10 years in Nome! Interesting enough, ca is where im trying to go back to.
Do you miss AK?
so why does he continue hiding the packs of cigs?
He once said he felt ashamed about his smoking.
Dollars to donuts: That's why.
I live in AK, Anchorage, termination dust is coming, and I love it. I personally, wouldn't love it, if I had moved here because of my wife's MLC however.
I was in the bedroom alone, crying... and h walked in, saw me, had a big sigh and walked out. As he walked out he said he was tired of me feeling sorry for myself. I said nothing, although his comment really hurt.
I walked down the hall to go up the stairs and I heard him talking to himself and he said "love me love me love me....i neeeeed you" and then he said (expletive) ing unappealing.".
Went back downstairs thinking of your post and the timing of it. Then he came down and said he wanted to say something, and he said "you keep asking me what you can do to change. There is nothing you can do...its not you, its me and i just dont feel in love, i cant give you what you want from me. Im willing to do the counseling but I dont want you getting up your hopes".
Ctflor - girlfriend, it pains me to read this, because I was just like you in the beginning. I remember one day in the beginning we had spent the day together and when he was going to leave I went into my bedroom and started to bawl my eyes out. I thought he had left to go back to his apt. so I started screaming at the top of my lungs, "nooooo don't leave me"
He hadn't left. He came back into the room, gave me a quick hug, and said that he can't listen to me anymore. It was too much for him. He left as quick as he could.
Months later when I wasn't attached to him anymore we were having a conversation and he said that when I used to do that it made him want to be further away from me and to never come back. It was to depressing and made him feel so guilty.
As hard as it is, try try try to not be depressed around him. I know it seems impossible, but you have to put your best face forward and act like everything is okay. It might be the hardest thing you have ever had to do. but it will help.
big giant mental hugs coming your way from me!! Please try and have a nice weekend. smile, laugh. try.
25, don't want to give too much info out...i was born in anchorage and lived 10 years in Nome! Interesting enough, ca is where im trying to go back to.
Do you miss AK?
"I miss summers in Alaska...like last summer was great! I think it a Thursday..."
ba da bump!
Actually I miss it a few weeks a year. In the winter I don't miss it at all and the winters were too long &insanely, dangerously cold for me...for really too long. And far far too dark.
In Anchorage there was more to do but the summers I spent there rained mostly.
At least Fairbanks had a summer and less overcast skies, but for me,
there simply wasn't enough to engage in and it was a horrifically labor intensive place to live. But boy did I GAL!! I refused to surrender to the darkness...and a lot of military wives did. I did NOT gain weight there....
GAL stuff I did there--
Did the tanning booths, auditioned for EVERY play I could have a role in, I did stand up Comedy, I worked out 4 x week, got in great shape, volunteered at the women's shelter, did PTA of course, joined a writer's group, took a pottery class (way out of my comfort zone) joined a wives' club (after 15 years active duty finally did) I learned how to fly and got a pilot's license, learned to fish and hunt and snowmachine and cross country ski...got on ADs in the winter and sleep meds for the BRIGHT summer nights...
So I llve here now. It's pricier but activities are cheaper b/c I can walk to the beach in flip flops and walk in great beauty and great weather pretty much year round.
I'm very affected by sunlight. So, there you go.
jack3
fwiw, you're right about me and Alaska.
If h hadn't "gone native" on me, who knows?
At least then the things I enjoyed doing there, or learned to,
would not have felt like "proof" we had to stay there forever. I am affected by weather and light so I probably would not have ever fully committed to it, but still...
I could have enjoyed it without pressure and he could admit things like, "it gets cold here in the winter" (well, once he said it was "Brisk"...)
For whatever reason, for the first time in our m, h was truly & lastingly, a jerk.
And It began about a month after landing there.
Jack3, I saw it happen to a few others and no place other than Alaska seems to do this to certain people, (mostly men).
So....WTH?
In private, when h isn't around, I tell stories of fun times there...don't tell.
Friday was absolutely crazy around here.
It started when a small package arrived on the door step for H. He thought it was his books he ordered for school. He was busy and told me to make sure that was what it was. There was only a P.O. Box for a return but I figured, I'm not gonna open this because he's all about his privacy and I left it on the table.
He came in and opened it later when I was sitting there peeling veggies, and inside of it was a note from OW , the music cds he made and a going away card he had given her. He looked at everything, crumpled up the note and threw it and told me, "see I told you nothing is going on" and walked out. I wanted sooo bad to grab the note and read it but I left it right where he threw it and I got up and left for awhile, went to visit my neighbor.
I came home later on and he was visibly upset, and looked like he'd been crying. I asked him if he was OK and he said yes, then said something about being in love, and how he felt like an idiot and he got in the car and left.
When he came back he didn't look well. I made some supper and offered him food. He went and got he letter where he threw it and asked me if I had seen it and I said no. He wanted me to read it. I have no idea why but he asked me to. I told him I didn't think I wanted to read it and that it was his personal business. So he read it out loud and it said something about how she wanted him to leave her alone, she never wanted more than friendship and that he was apparently on another page than she was. Can't remember the rest of it. I was shaking when he read it.
When he was done he looked at me and said "now you can be happy, no one wants me".
He was quiet the rest of the night, but came over to hug me before bed telling me he loved me.
Today he was about the same, quiet, very sad... it almost reminded me of watching a teenager go through a break up.
Later on today he said "I've been really stupid. But I still feel like I want to be free." and I sat and listened without saying anything. And then he admitted that he's been feeling so depressed that he feels this depression is part of what is propelling him away from me.
I was afraid to say anything, for saying the wrong thing but I did ask if he wanted to go talk to the dr and he snapped a little and said he wasn't going to take drugs, just wanted to talk to the counselor. And then he told me he was still in love with me, and had feelings....and there was a slight attraction to me.
(Despite telling me for weeks now that there was zero attraction and that he wasn't in love)
I was kind of surprised to hear him say "maybe other men go through this at some point?" I nodded, but I did not bring up MLC stuff. I think he's got to find that out on his own, right?
I can sit there and see the wheels turning in his mind, and how much pain he is in. I want to rescue him and make it stop. And now since OW's package came, he seems to have sunk further. It worries me.
The only thing I can do is step back... and watch him fall. I seriously hate this.
But as of today he has said he feels committed to mc and working out what it is he is going through. He is very aware there are huge changes happening to him, but he doesn't know what it's from and what to do.
tamf, you pretty much described me and my h in your post. Going to try harder to control emotions. Going for long walks helps a lot lately. I can walk down the road and talk to myself and no one sees but the deer lol
"I miss summers in Alaska...like last summer was great! I think it a Thursday..."
ba da bump!
lol
I'm impressed with your GAL activities you found there. Maybe I'm needing to dig deeper here.
I still have family in Anchorage, Nome, and friends in Kodiak. The winters I remember as a child were quite something.
Thats what I do on my walks too. Talk to myself really loud and no one hears. Even let a bad word slip in once and a while.
Life, those walks really help don't they? I like to take that time to get it all out so i can walk back in the door refreshed.
CTflor, watch out, he may go into withdrawal. It is really tough to see them in that mode. You are lucky, it does seem like OW really does not want him, unlike mine where she strings him along....
keep on DBing....
The last couple of days have been horrible around here. He's already there Angel, and still pushing me far away. I can take anything really, but the distance, the rejection, and lack of intimacy are hurting me pretty badly.
Today I worked on detaching. He went off hiking and I spent time getting homework done. Tomorrow I'm going shopping with my neighbor and leaving before he gets home. He has been liking my being gone when he gets home. When I come back he seems happy to see me... then he slips back into the tunnel.
Hang in there. I remember when my H first broke off contact with OW, which was 4 months after bomb drop, I had the feeling that it was way too early in the sitch, and that he was far from ready for that. He went into terrible withdrawal, and the next 4 months were the most horrible in our sitch. The coaster ride was wild, especially since it was the holidays.
When I come back he seems happy to see me... then he slips back into the tunnel.
What happens, what triggers him slipping back into the tunnel?
Off the cuff, is it something you do? Do you turn off the TV? Turn on the TV? Start talking alot? Be honest with yourself, is it something you are doing?
If it isn't, and your honest about it, then let him see you, be happy, then find your own corner of the house away from him.
Jack, I think when he comes home and d is acting up he feels stressed out and wants to turn around and leave. I stopped turning on the tv and he usually sits down for a little bit and talks to me. I did try going to my corner of the house but he comes looking for me because he thinks I'm upset! Or that I'm moping. I've pretty much went to a neutral place, like the kitchen when I see him get home cause... no pressure to sit and talk, nothing that seems like moping going on... it's kind of up to him if he wants to come in and hang out and talk.
Update...
Earlier, h said some things at mc that I was not expecting.
He said that there is still a part of him in love with me, and that he loves me for many other things too. He said he feels sentimental about our past and wishes he felt the same.
Then he said that he felt conflicted right now. He wants to be free, and at the same time, he doesn't want to lose me.
I wasn't expecting to hear this, because he has been so adamant about wanting to leave. He's had tantrums over this, and has sometimes mentioned it on a daily basis. Whenever I tell him that he is free to go, he would never go and I didn't understand that either.
I could see that he is in a lot of pain, very conflicted. He cried and said that part of him wants to stay but he feels a force that is pulling him away from me.
He also talked about how he wants to have more freedom to do things if he stayed with me. This I don't understand because I have never told him he can't do anything. I guess that is the mlc talking..
I'm still working on gal, trying to keep a positive attitude, be less clingy, work on me... and I think he's seeing it,well, hopefully.
dang, rent some comedies or read some light hearted books ASAP!
Lighten things up as far as the "surroundings" and or your demeanor.
I am not saying to be a doormat at all,
but as far as the "mood" you set, don't let it be a downer or an angry one around HIM.
IF he does something that is hurtful you can react to THAT in the moment...
but for your outlook generally, (for him AND FOR YOU),
you have got to be more hopeful and upbeat and believing in YOU...
Okay? Can you try to do that? Remember that dancer within?
Go get her back! She is still YOU. Do you get that?
Wishing you strength CT...big time.
((( )))
Thanks 25... you are probably right. I wonder if you can sense my mood through the computer screen? lol I've been quite down.
I'll take your advice and start fresh tomorrow. I remember that dancer... she was young and so strong.
It's awful of me to say this, because I want to believe... but I can't help but think his revelations about not wanting to lose me, being partially in love... comes from his loss of ow. I don't want him clinging to me because he's afraid of losing me now. I want us to have a healthy relationship.
give him a LOT of time to figure that out, if your pride can handle it. You cannot expect him to simply "realize it". Meanwhile be upbeat for YOU and your d and GAL and stop staring at him to decide if you are "allowed" to be happy now. At SOME point you'll have to see that HIS happiness or misery is NOT an index for yours....okay? ((( )))
I wonder if you can sense my mood through the computer screen? lol I've been quite down.
just thinking about you waaaaayyyyy up there and wanted to send you (((((hugs)))) and prayers from Wisconsin that today is peaceful for you.
Do you watch Modern Family? The new season starts tonight and that show is so funny it is bond to keep your mind off of your sitch and make you laugh
sorry - BOUND not bond! lol!
Sorry for the hijack....trying to get 25's opinion on my sitch the past couple of weeks.
I pray for everyone on this board. 25 gives great advice....
give him a LOT of time to figure that out, if your pride can handle it. You cannot expect him to simply "realize it". Meanwhile be upbeat for YOU and your d and GAL and stop staring at him to decide if you are "allowed" to be happy now. At SOME point you'll have to see that HIS happiness or misery is NOT an index for yours....okay? ((( )))
That's the thing. I never realized how co dependent I had become with him. There's been no separation of our moods, our actions, etc in years. I don't know how that happens, but it did.
I wonder if you can sense my mood through the computer screen? lol I've been quite down.
just thinking about you waaaaayyyyy up there and wanted to send you (((((hugs)))) and prayers from Wisconsin that today is peaceful for you.
Do you watch Modern Family? The new season starts tonight and that show is so funny it is bond to keep your mind off of your sitch and make you laugh
Thank you, and I am sending you peace too. (((((())))))
I haven't seen modern family!
Today is so strange. It feels as if nothing has happened. As if the BD never happened. He acts like he's comfortable and relaxed, not cold and distant. He seems to be happy... and doesn't act like he wants to escape me and the house.
Is this what you call, peeking out of the tunnel?
I have plans tonight though, which don't include him. I'm going on ahead and continue gal, because I don't want things to slip back into the old.
It's just a weird feeling though... like going back in time.
Anyone relate to that?
So here I am unable to sleep. As i mentioned above...yesterday was like bd never happened. It was a nice day. No arguing, no talk about r. He wanted to cook tonight...so he did. We watched a movie. It felt okay, not strained....a big hug and 3 i love yous as he went to bed and down the stairs. I wanted to follow him, then decided not to. In reality i just wanted him to take me in his arms. We are so far apart as far as being intimate. I hate that. When we used to have an argument, we would make up...then we would feel healed and it seemed to make our love for one another stronger. But we dont have this anymore now. He said a week ago that the last time we were together was not satisfying to him, that something was missing. I felt so horrible hearing this. Like i'm not good enough.
I realize this is probably tmi for the board.
I'm just feeling so much tonight with no where to put it.
This is not going to magically get better in a day...but i am so glad we had one good day together.
He said a week ago that the last time we were together was not satisfying to him, that something was missing. I felt so horrible hearing this. Like i'm not good enough.
Ctflor - this is so common, please don't take it personally. ok, that was the dumbest thing I have ever said! how can you NOT take it personally? But trust me when I say that this has happened to most of us.
The last time I had sex with my H (
months ago...should have been much longer than that!) I felt like I raped him. only a few of my really close friends on this board know this happened. but I see you in pain and I will share my story so you won't feel alone.
Back in Feb. - my H moved back home after being separated for 7 months. He moved back in because we were going to "try". that lasted for about 1 day. He couldn't let his girlfriend go. so instead of moving out, he just started sleeping on the couch. It was a strange time, we got along so well, even cuddled alot. but he always had his girlfriend.
On night, I had a lot of wine...He had been in my bedroom watching TV. I came into the room laid down and reached over and started kissing his neck (he stopped kissing my lips when the bomb dropped). I could tell he was "up" for the situation, but his mind was not. He kept saying saying, "no TAMF we shouldn't do this". but I was so desprate that I pushed it and we had sex. It was HORRIBLE. Afterward, I cried and cried. I had raped him. The only reason he had sex with me was because he felt guilty.
I have never been more humiliated in my life.
We always had a great sex life. and THIS is what it came down to?
So my advice to you is not to push it. Let it happen when he wants it. Otherwise it could be horrible. and you don't want that memory, trust me.
So here I am unable to sleep. As i mentioned above...yesterday was like bd never happened. It was a nice day. No arguing, no talk about r. He wanted to cook tonight...so he did. We watched a movie. It felt okay, not strained....
this is good stuff^^^. But expectations will get you everytime...
a big hug and 3 i love yous as he went to bed and down the stairs. I wanted to follow him, then decided not to. In reality i just wanted him to take me in his arms. We are so far apart as far as being intimate. I hate that. When we used to have an argument, we would make up...then we would feel healed and it seemed to make our love for one another stronger.
Expectations...drop them for now.
But we dont have this anymore now.
You may again someday. It hasn't been all that long CT...
He said a week ago that the last time we were together was not satisfying to him, that something was missing. I felt so horrible hearing this. Like i'm not good enough.
He's the MAN....this isn't about YOU...it's probably his fantasy of the perfect woman (the one who doesn't care for him) and no one can compare to that...this is not a reflection on YOU....seriously. OR it's his guilt making him feel inadequate...again, not about YOU.
But your reaction to this is within your control and IS about you. Be confident. It's his loss at least as much as yours. Let him discover that.
I realize this is probably tmi for the board.
Hardly tmi for THIS board...(no such thing)
I'm just feeling so much tonight with no where to put it.
This is not going to magically get better in a day...but i am so glad we had one good day together.
Savor it, have more, let them grow in number and then, in depth. TIME...times like this are on your side.
Don't push or "need", okay? Not helpful.
GAL...please...it's the single most important thing YOU CAN DO.
Tamf, I will totally take that advice. You are right, I shouldn't push, if even in my mind. I was reading something on another thread today in the vets tips, someone said to see our spouse as a frail baby bird in our hand, and to only be careful, because if you try to crush it, it could fly away.
25, I will remember not to need right now.
Worried about my h.
I know I am supposed to detach but this morning I was laying there, and he put his arm around me and suddenly broke down crying really hard. I sat up and was quiet next to him. He then told me...
1. I'm losing my mind. I'm a jerk, I'm losing it and going crazy.
2. I'm conflicted and scared.
3. I don't know why you want me. All i do is cause you pain.
4. I don't want to lose you.
5. When I go hiking or play music I feel like I can sort through my feelings. I come back feeling better.
I was worried to see him crying and saying he was losing his mind. I was very quiet letting him do the talking. When he was done, I said, "how bout a hike today?"
He was crying really hard... I felt powerless. But later he thanked me for listening.
Did any of your spouses go through this intense depression...
I feel like after ow pretty much cut him off... it sent him spiraling downward. It's been going for days. However, as I said, yesterday he was doing ok.
25, today I almost feel detached from his pain. I feel like I'm standing outside the window looking in and watching all of this, even though I feel worried and scared for him.
will he get some help?
He's clearly not well. In a way that's good as far as you not taking this all so personally
but its very concerning obviously...and even if he's "just super depressed" but doesn't kill himself
doesn't mean he can't destroy your m and his future...he needs help.
You cannot fix him or force him to get help. Don't try to.
But surely HE sees he needs it?
Hey Ct,
First thought - its best if you can be 'quiet' with yourself when he is experiencing this. Sometimes expressing empathy directly just fuels the pain.
Having experienced feelings 1, 2, 4, and 5 in my own life I can say that it sounds like he is experiencing some serious anxiety and some real depression.
Those negative self-evaluations that tend to be very general, they can easily lead to some depression.
Good advice from the posters. I am not a therapist, and so this is only what I have observed and read about, but there is overt depression, which your h is experiencing, and while terribly painful, it is clear to him and to others. As 25 says, he needs help and may be able to see it.
Covert depression is probably more common in MLC. I suspect that many MLCers have been silently depressed for years, and it bursts out at MLC, but they still do not see it as depression. They externalise it a lot of teh time on to their partner. If your h can get help it would be very good, but you cannot fix him. There are some very good books on coping with depression, and he might find reading one of those helful, or not. You know him best.
There is a book that a couple of my [formerly depressed] friends have read and found helpful called 'Depression: Your way out of prison' by Dorothy Rowe, who is an Australian psychotherapist who has worked in the States and Europe as well.
Hard though ths is, your h does realise he has problems. So many MLCers think it is the rest of the world that has got it wrong.
will he get some help?
He's clearly not well. In a way that's good as far as you not taking this all so personally
but its very concerning obviously...and even if he's "just super depressed" but doesn't kill himself
doesn't mean he can't destroy your m and his future...he needs help.
You cannot fix him or force him to get help. Don't try to.
But surely HE sees he needs it?
He wants to, but we are paying for our mc out of pocket and I don't know where we will come up with extra at this time. Thinking of asking the mc about him having a couple sessions on his own.
Hey Ct,
First thought - its best if you can be 'quiet' with yourself when he is experiencing this. Sometimes expressing empathy directly just fuels the pain.
Having experienced feelings 1, 2, 4, and 5 in my own life I can say that it sounds like he is experiencing some serious anxiety and some real depression.
Those negative self-evaluations that tend to be very general, they can easily lead to some depression.
Thanks for sharing this with me... really appreciate it. Part of me wants to sit next to him and let him have his feelings without me reaching out to put an arm around him. I'm thinking at times it must be uncomfortable to him.
Thank you Beatrice.. this does help me understand more of what he's going through. I'm going to see about the book .. I'm sure I can order it on amazon.
Not in a good place.
I woke up yesterday morning feeling very depressed, and once I started crying I could not seem to stop it. Somehow, I just slipped backwards and even though I felt myself reaching forward gripping the handle bars of db-ing... I STILL messed up.
I cleaned my face up and put on light make up and put on something nice, just a casual nice shirt with jeans. Did my hair.. then went to the kitchen to study before H got in from work.
Except, for the first time he decided to be 3 1/2 hours late, which never happens..he may be an hour but not that long. So then what happens? I start reeling with panic inside... all my fears about him being dishonest behind my back came flooding in and took control. By the time he got home, I was sitting in the garage having a cig. I don't even smoke, but I got one out of the stash kept in the cabinet and proceeded to sit, get teary eyed, angry, worried, and just smoke.
He came in and said hi, and I said nothing. I didn't want anything coming out of my mouth... but then he said, "Are you mad?" and that opened the flood gates.... of hell, perhaps.
I lost my cool, and I said, "At least you could have phoned...?" and he tried to explain that he had overtime, and after that he talked to a friend of his after work, stopped for gas and a soda.
But did I stop there... no. I cried, and I said, "I was worried something was going on that I don't know about". He tried to be sympathetic and somewhat comforting by saying that nothing at all was going on. He had a smile on his face and went on in the house. I SHOULD have known the smile was his cue that everything was OK cause when stuff was going on with OW, he didn't come home with a smile... it was always a worried look.
I'm so angry with myself.... cause I pouted and acted like a baby that evening. I ended up angering him. And after dinner he came up to me in the kitchen and raised his voice and said, "This is what I'm talking about..." and walked off.
ALL the #%$ changes I worked SO hard at ... blown out of the water. You know, things were actually starting to get just a little better around here... and he was slowly slowly coming a bit closer.... and I had to slip back.
So mad at myself, sad, angry.
I have to turn it around somehow today. He probably does not believe that my changes are real or will stick.
So how do I hold it together, when thoughts of OW and what he did come flooding in, causing panic?
ALL the #%$ changes I worked SO hard at ... blown out of the water. You know, things were actually starting to get just a little better around here... and he was slowly slowly coming a bit closer.... and I had to slip back.
So mad at myself, sad, angry.
I have to turn it around somehow today. He probably does not believe that my changes are real or will stick.
Ct - we ALL have times when we do what we shouldn't! over and over again. This won't be your last time, so don't worry. You are human and sometimes...ahhhhhh! you just want to scream and cry and shake some sense into them.
Pick yourself up and smile and pretend it didn't happen. That's what I did. And remeber the changes are for you NOT for him. One day you will understand that. It just takes time.
You will be okay Ct.
Yes, a friend once told me it will be a big deal only because you make it so. And sometimes we do slip so that we can learn.....
I have slipped so many, many times that people are tired of sending me 2x4's. But what else can you do..just pick yourself up. Play it cool .... your H is trying to recover. You know what my H just told me? That when he ended it with OW the first time a year ago, it could have gone OK if not because of my actions... which made him feel rebellious and made him contact her again.
But honestly, I don't beieve him. Whatever I would have done he would have gone right back and talked to her anyway. In the meantime, we still are learning, and I did need that time or else I would not be having all the relizations that I am having now.
Thanks tamf and angel.
Even though he told me "its over" with ow, i find myself still obsessed with it all. I look at her facebook, read her blog, feel sick and sad....rinse repeat.
I cant trust him. Even though he says he is not going to contact her...i wonder if he has another secret email set up. Or, is he sitting with a different woman at lunch breaks now.
When he is late, when he is on the computer when i'm gone....my heart panics.
I'm struggling to detach from this. No matter how hard i try to put my focus on other things....i cant stop thinking about all these things...and if he is still lying.
You know....i dont want to put the program back on the computer so i can snoop.....because if i found something again it is going to take me down in a bad way. As it is im a mess with all these obsessive thoughts.
Im so angry at him this morning for doing all this.
H told me last night he wants to go out to ca, where we used to live and look for a job and an apt for us. His sister lives there and she told him that he can stay there for a few weeks if needed. I was surprised by this. Maybe now i can go home where there will be more resources. I'm happy with this....very happy as i have never been happy up here. Because he is in mlc, i will be cautious and let it settle in for him...he could change his mind. But last night he seemed very sure that going home is a good idea.
This move could be good.
Last night as we were getting ready for bed, h made the comment about when to put in his notice for work. I made a comment..."it will be nice to go home again...it will be a fresh start". He looked at me for a moment and said "just because we are going out there doesnt mean all my feelings are going to just go away. I dont want you putting expectations on me."
I was like wow....where did that come from AND thanks for making sure you quash even a tiny hope that it MIGHT be positive.
I didnt say that out loud of course! I just said "i understand..." and went to bed.
One day he says he wants to save our marriage and he next he's telling me not to be hopeful.
Ive only been on a roller coaster once in my life because i was terrified. Mlc reminds me of this lol
New Thread please Ctflor. Thanks.