Time for a new thread as I turn the page on a new chapter in my life post divorce.
Lets dispense with the formalities first…….here is a link to my last thread which on the first page has links to the rest of my threads.
Paroled !!! MLC prison no more!!!I have had a week to reflect on things since my divorce was final last week. After thinking about things I realized that leading up to the court date and including the day of the divorce I had some expectations. Not expectations that my MLC spouse would snap out of it and come to her senses but rather some sort of acknowledgement of the gravity of a 17 year marriage ending, even if that acknowledgement was happiness on her part.
Instead there was nothing from her, or at least nothing I noticed…..if I stop and think about it I did not do or say anything either that would give credence to what was about to happen. I still had an expectation and out of that was born some of my anger towards her. Being honest with myself, I would have to say there is still some residual anger there but I am putting distance between me and the event, every day is another step away from the divorce.
I know where “work” is these days, and yes even post divorce there is still work to be done. My “work” is letting go of any expectation that my XW will every “get it” or mention that she “gets it” to me. She may never snap out of her fog, some MLCer’s never do. Honestly, given her nature and her family I don’t think she will ever realize the level of pain she has caused, nor acknowledge it even if she does realize it. She comes from a very prideful family and during our marriage was never very apologetic or one to admit wrong doing.
As I look back on the last 20 months I think about what I had to do to get through and it really is a process of letting go………
First…..letting go of my Wife (detaching from her and looking away from her)
Second……letting go of my Marriage (accepting the fact that my old M was over)
Thirdly…….letting go of any expectation that she will ever come out of the fog or admission to me that she has done so.
WASs over time many times come to realize that the LBS was not the real source of their unhappiness. When that happens, it may be possible to become friendly with your XW.
Thanks for your post GAG,
I know that it is possible to be friendly with her just not so sure that it is healthy for me or the kids right now. This is exactly what I am working on now, I would like to be able to be friendly with her whether she comes to this realization or not. Time will tell.
MHL -
With that language, that I reviewed with my children, I will sign the dissolution settlement documents and end 25 years of marriage and 29 years of togetherness.
IB, we did everything we could to save the marriage and for that I am proud of you, myself and everyone else that comes here to save their marriages. One of the biggest fears I had early on was that my children would look at me later in life as one who “gave up”. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they know that I tried and gave everything I had to save the marriage.
Then, start a bucket list. Put all kinds of things on it - places to go, goals, hopes.
And start begin your life anew. Fill it with new memories, new friendships.
I wish for you many days filled with happiness and laughter. I wish that you remember how far you have come and how much more you have to give.
Keep in keepin' on, my friend.
Brook,
Got the bucket already and it is being filled
I trust you have yours too ??????
The keepin’ is going on daily !!!
I am proud of you.
And proud to have walked this with you.
Me too brother….me too.
You are NOT the same Missher that came here oh so long ago...
Him, I wanted to smack (wait I think I did once or twice
)
No I am not the same person…..
But
That doesn’t mean that you won’t want to slap me time and again….LOL.
I'm sorry? As an old friend once told me, "F me, I'm sorry too."
Is it a battle or the war?
Jack,
Thank you for the thought, and thank you for the guidance “early on”, seems so long ago yet I can read some new poster’s threads today, like tadpole and it all comes flooding back like it was yesterday.
It is odd that if I had the knowledge and understanding back then that I now have today things may have been different but then I don’t think that I would be where I am at as an individual today. Sometimes I feel that if we tell new posters what to do and they actually did it (imagine that, Lord knows I didn’t) they might miss out on that journey of self discovery.
Battle or the War????
I feel that the saving the marriage was actually the battle…….in the beginning we view it as the War. Winning the War is growing as person, becoming a whole person that is not defined by someone else. Sometimes we lose the battle and while it is sad we can rejoice in the fact that the War was won.
Thanks for giving your time to this place where many come for reassurance and advice, understanding and friendship.
If it is okay with everyone I will continue to post here as I know without a doubt that my XW is still deep in the tunnel and while I do not have the desire to reconcile with her I still have to interact with her as we raise our children. So I am still dealing with MLC, although it is more indirectly, I will be observing from a “safe” distance.
Well the picture I saw, pretty girl, Missher out GAL, dancing around.
Just keep dancing Missher, thats all we can all do.
My life continues on and I am happy. I have been dating one person for the last couple of months and have enjoyed getting to know her and having fun with her……..and that includes dancing!!! In fact tonight I am going out to a “late” Valentine’s Day dinner with her (she lives about an hour away). I will say that it is exciting to put into practice all that I have learned about myself and men and women and relationships, I go into this relationship as a “whole” person that is happy with himself first!!!!
Today is Little Friday and many of you know it is my day of affirmation that ……
“Life is Good and it is Good to be Alive”
However,
Today I get to celebrate Little Friday for what it was originally intended……..a day to reconnect with someone special in our lives.
Tonight I will get to spend time with someone that is becoming more special to me everyday, tonight we will be able to focus on each other without kids, jobs, or friends or anything else that distracts us from nurturing a loving relationship with our mates.
I hope that we all can one day celebrate “Little Friday” once again with someone special in our lives.
Cheers
If it is okay with everyone I will continue to post here
As my teenage boy would say (but not to me or mom)
Duh?!
Oh yeah and thank you for the compliment. : )
You are ok in my book.
Please continue to post. We would miss your insights.
I am figuring out my bucket list, my friend and working on it, too.
Have a great time tonight. You deserve it!
Dude why don't you change your name now?
SwissMiss?
LordoftheRings?
SleeperCreeper?
IDK...
Buddy, it has been an absolute pleasure to get to know you and I count you as one of my very best friends on this planet ... RL, online, imaginary or otherwise
. Guidance, support, friendship and 2x4s ... you've given them all to me, and for that I thank you. I learn from you so often and am grateful for your honesty and caring. You, my friend, are one in a million. As they sing in the theme song of Mach's favorite show ... "Thank you for being a friend"
Luv ya,
T
PS ... SwissMiss get's my vote too
Hey MHL, you serve as a great example to all. I admire your ability to maintain the peace in a horrific circumstance.
Our sitchs seem so similar. But while I continue to struggle with the terrible things W says and does, you seem to have found the path to successful detachment.
Best of luck on your new path.
Dude why don't you change your name now?
That is something I have thought about for sure.....
The name definitely does not communicate how I am feeling now but it certainly did when I first came here.
It is a bit of a reminder to me about my journey and how far I have come, "a rearview mirror" of sorts.
My other consideration is that I don't want to confuse new posters to the site as my ultimate hope is that my story will benefit anyone that may happen to read it.
Let me think about it a little bit.....
If I did, it may be something simple like "MHL" or a variation of "missherlove"....not sure.
Of course "LordoftheRings" would get Eric's vote for sure and the underlying meaning would garner a snicker from you guys everytime you posted to me. (certainly some value in that!!)
I know that no matter what I change it to, if I do at all.....Jack and Mach will always refer to me as "Swiss", kind of like playground bullies, ya know.
Buddy, it has been an absolute pleasure to get to know you and I count you as one of my very best friends on this planet ... RL, online, imaginary or otherwise
. Guidance, support, friendship and 2x4s ... you've given them all to me, and for that I thank you. I learn from you so often and am grateful for your honesty and caring. You, my friend, are one in a million. As they sing in the theme song of Mach's favorite show ... "Thank you for being a friend"
Luv ya,
T
PS ... SwissMiss get's my vote too
Thanks T !!!!
Luv ya too.
. But while I continue to struggle with the terrible things W says and does, you seem to have found the path to successful detachment.
Thanks CNS.......
I know you have endured so much for a long time, but you too will find your own peace in "time". Everyone has a different timeline and the time it takes to reach that place is different for everyone.
However....
If you keep working on it you will get there and the nice thing is that when you do get there, you will not even be trying......it just happens.
As Brooklyn says "Keep on Keepin'"
Cheers
Lord of the Rings,
This ^^^^ IMO, is the gift of all of this. The gift of having to endure the pain…when we finally starting looking inside, we learn to be very honest with ourselves.
She may never snap out of her fog, some MLCer’s never do. Honestly, given her nature and her family I don’t think she will ever realize the level of pain she has caused, nor acknowledge it even if she does realize it. She comes from a very prideful family and during our marriage was never very apologetic or one to admit wrong doing.
Are you sure she is not related to my STBXW? LOL. I feel ya dude. Personally, I have finally stop expecting her to ever
admit to any wrong doing. That my friend is their problem. One day though….they will realize and come to understand the pain and errors of there actions. We may never hear it..but deep down inside they will realize. Why do I say this? We’ll cause honestly I do believe that God or some higher power exists and at some point, be it on a death bed we all come to the realization of what our actions cause and how we lived our lives.
Of course "LordoftheRings" would get Eric's vote for sure and the underlying meaning would garner a snicker from you guys everytime you posted to me. (certainly some value in that!!)
Yep….I vote for Lord of the Rings…hey you can shorten it….say…LOTF.
Dude, I am not gonna post about how wonderful you are or how much you endured..You already now that. What I have to say is…..when do you want to do the double date thing 
With Love,
Eric
Playground bully?
I am really sorry if that is the way you felt about me.
Forgive me?
Everything is going to be better.
We are all going to ride to work on lavender unicorns, and bunnies will bring us chocolate that doesn't make us fat for lunch...
Since it stung a little,
I was prideful in the past. I read my own press and let that go to my head. I allowed myself to become arrogant.
And that is why I hope you guys will let me know if you see me doing that again.
Jack
We are all going to ride to work on lavender unicorns, and bunnies will bring us chocolate that doesn't make us fat for lunch...
Are the lavender unicorns...the mode of public transportation in your neck of the woods? If so, I'm booking a flight
Oh...and for the chocolate...you can get some low fat sugar free stuff that is a lot less fating.
Sorry for the hijack Lord.
Eric
Oh, I knew there was a reason I read this thread. You just gave me my new "assignment." Remove the expectation that my XH will ever get that what he did was not noble or destined to bring him the "real" person he should be with.
This is something I think I obsess over a lot, the idea that he must be made to understand that what he did was wrong, and I have no control over this. My XH is an atheist, so religion has no effect on him, and even though we were married in the Catholic church, that meant nothing to him, I was and still am a lapsed Catholic, and we did that purely to please my father who refused to come to the wedding if we didn't marry in the church.
And aside from that, he is so deep in MLC land that he may never get out of the fog. I think he LIKES the fog.
So thanks for pushing me in the direction I need to be going in. My psychiatrist told me that focusing on the ex finally "waking up" is yet another way we hang on to the old relationship and to them and get stuck, and that we have to give ourselves permission to fully believe that it is quite possible that they may never come out of this, never see the wrongness of what they did, never really own it, and never come back to reconcile, and that we're OK with them not coming back to reconcile.
I mean if in 5 years they are changed people and we meet them again, maybe things resurrect, but we can't keep looking for that to happen, not even a little bit, because it stunts our own progress.
I'm looking forward to reading about how you handle this problem!
Are the lavender unicorns...the mode of public transportation in your neck of the woods? If so, I'm booking a flight
and that's how I know...
Okay....I was a little reluctant to bite but I will..."know what?"
...
(sigh)
hand over the card.
...
(sigh)
hand over the card.
LMFAO ... he passed it in when he paid for the first tutu ...
...and that's how I know.
...
(sigh)
hand over the card.
Well, it is about time...
I was a little reluctant to bite but I will...
That's how
I know.....
And they're off.....LOL!
You guys are relentless.
Oh Eric, sweetie, get back in the game now, come on, you're from NY.
Hiya Guys!
Ah......
So I had to call in additional resources to help with this...
So you think you know...Hmmmm....
Do your best Eric.
Come out scratching!
Do your best Eric.
Come out scratching!
And wreck the mani? Nah ....
Obviously it is Friday and no one is working.....
Eric to use your words....Man the F*%k up dude......kick em in the nuts next time.
You said kick right Miss?
Sheesh, where are you guys from?
What the heck kind of fighting do you all do?
The only kicking that happens where I'm from is in football or soccer.
And that's how I know...
Obviously it is Friday and no one is working.....
Sure I am ... I'm multi-tasking
I was a little reluctant to bite but I will...
Your new "friends" will be sorry to hear this.
I would think...
Kicking?
When you get kicked with a ballet shoe
it kinda tickles...
Tickle down speakingly of course.
When you get kicked with a ballet shoe
it kinda tickles...
And that's how I know ...
No kicking from me.
Straight up man fisting....Oh way did I just say "fisting"...
Have a good weekend everyone.
Eric
Oh boy, Mach. That tickle thing is gonna follow you.
Eric, fisting...really???
I know B...I know...
Okay...make that a fisting pink tutu wearing Rican. Chit did I just say that. LOL.
I know B...I know...
Okay...make that a fisting pink tutu wearing Rican. Chit did I just say that. LOL.
I thought advertising wasn't allowed?! WTF
Okay...make that a fisting pink tutu wearing Rican.
Is it me or does that sound like part of the title of a porn video????
I'm going to have to take your word on that matter.
I know B...I know...
Okay...make that a fisting pink tutu wearing Rican. Chit did I just say that. LOL.
I thought advertising wasn't allowed?! WTF
Hey buddy! Welcome to the party
Update time.....
Life will feel normal again........
I will be resuming a family tradition tomorrow with my kids.....
Tomorrow the kids and I will board a boat as we cruise down to the Caribbean and slow down for a while. Before the bomb we would take a cruise every spring break.....we really enjoyed it as a family..........it is something we will enjoy again!!!
I can remember back in the begining thinking that my life will forever be changed that I will always mark my life as "before the bomb" and "after the bomb".......
not so,
Life will return to normalcy if you let it and you move past that terrible time in your life.
In fact, I refer to that time more as a time of self discovery than I do as a time in which my XW went absolutely crazy.
She is still in the middle of MLC. No doubt about it and I still am exposed to some of the crap, but it does not affect me now. If you have kids you are somewhat forced to interact with the MLCer unfortunately, just the way it is.
The kids are doing okay, I think my S10 is starting to let go of the idea that Mom and Dad may get back together one day. I know that as my relationship with the woman I have been dating since December progresses he sees that as the signpost in the road that says "Dad has moved on". But he also sees a happy Dad and he knows that Dad tried for a long time to make it work with Mom. I hold my head high, I have no shame nor guilt in my decision to have a relationship.
My D14 has stopped going over to see her Mom about 2 months ago, and is back in therapy but she is doing well. My D14 opened herself up to her mother once again and once again got hurt. Her Mother's MLC very much affects their relationship also. What is really sad for me to see is that my XW does not even try. She does not call our D14, does not reach out to her, does not text her....nothing. It is hard to beleive that my W and my daughter's mother once occuppied that body.
She is gone.....forever, we have mourned her passing and we are getting on with life without her.
I limit my contact with her and my daughter has absolutely no contact with her. I don't think that my D14 has set eyes on her nor spoken a word to her in over a month.
A couple of weeks ago my XW called me to ask me for help in making a connection with our D14.
Because I am done and have moved on, I don't mind what I say to my XW other than to be calm and respectful.
I told her what our D14 was feeling and how her actions and words cause pain to this day and that the longer she lets it go on the more pain it causes our D14. My XW listened carefully without interupting and I thought that I would see some effort from her but it was not to be. She is still in full blown MLC, she never attempted to call, write or do anything to re-establih the relationship with our D14.
She has dark days ahead of her.
As for me, I have never been happier. My new job is going great and I am in a relationship with a woman I care deeply about. She lives about 1.5 hours away and I see her a couple of times a week. She has 2 kids that are a little older than mine and I have been around her kids and her around mine.
When we return from the cruise all of us are going on a weekend vacation together......it will be the freakin' brady bunch...LOL.
Life does return to you if you allow it.....it does take time.
I am not resentful about the time it took me to get to where I am today but it did take time.
I still deal with MLC and will continue post as I do have to interact with my MLC XW, but now it is not within the context of trying to restore a marriage that is dead.
I don't know if she will ever wake up, part of me does not think that she will, what is different now is that she is no longer a part of my life, and that is okay.
On another note.......I am still thinking about a name change but to be honest I will probably just keep it or if I do anything it will just be MHL. I will think about it on the cruise whilst I sip a corona and listen to a little Bob Marley!!!!
Rise up this mornin'; smiled with the risin' sun.
Three little birds pitch by my doorstep
Singin' sweet songs of melodies pure and true; saying,
"This is my message to you-ou-ou.”
Singin': "Don't worry about a thing, ‘cause ev-ry little thing gonna be all right."
Sayin': "Don't worry about a thing, ‘cause ev-ry little thing gonna be all right!"
Always remember.......
Life is Good and it is Good to be Alive !!!!
Cheers
~C
Hey MHL, good for you! Have a blast on that cruise.
I am sorry that your xw and your daughter's relationship is strained. That is something I cannot get my mind around. I could not imagine not being in my son's life.
There is nothing you can do about it, unfortunately. And one day, your xw may realize it and I feel sorry for her when that happens.
I am so happy for you that you have found someone to share your life with.
Bon voyage.
Hey my dear friend.
Good to hear from you.
Glad to hear you are well and that you are thriving.
This is the best place for you I feel sure.
Be well.
Thanks for posting on my thread MHL!
I am so happy to read you are doing so well!
I hope you and your children have a wonderful vacation together!
MHL - happy to read that you are doing so well....I feel that you have the same calmness, strength, renewed appreciation of life and optimism about the future that I have these days....and it feels darn good...we have come a long way baby
We are back in control and dealing with this from a position of strength not weakness. There are still mountains to climb, we still have to deal with our MLC's but it's easier and easier.
I just hope that the situation between your D and your EX will improve...for your D's sake.
I hold my head high, I have no shame nor guilt in my decision to have a relationship
And why would you. We have done all we can for our MLC's...it's OK to start living again....
"Don't worry about a thing, ‘cause ev-ry little thing gonna be all right."All the best to you my friend
Glad to hear life is good!
Ok....for a new name..... Still have that goatee? How about MisterHairyLips....JK that sounds kinda gross.... MyHappyLife....MHL works lots of ways!
Enjoy the cruise!
MHL...glad you are doing well!! xo
MHL...glad you are doing well!! xo
Lola,
So good to hear from you!!! We need to catch up!
Hope you are doing well also!!
Glad to hear life is good!
Ok....for a new name..... Still have that goatee? How about MisterHairyLips....JK that sounds kinda gross.... MyHappyLife....MHL works lots of ways!
Enjoy the cruise!
Hey WhatNow!!!
Thanks for the name change suggestion!!!!!
You just motivated me to change it!!!
I am still going with MHL but I think I will go with your suggestion as to what it stands for now......
My Happy LifeAs far as the cruise goes....it was great!!! and I was able to grow back my goatee, but sadly it had to come off this morning as I returned to work
The bank I work for now is much more conservative so the goatee had to go when I took the new job last fall.
I will create a new profile in the alt so I can share pictures once again...I felt the need to "un-friend" some friends that were screen names only so as to maintain "my happy life".
While my girlfriend is aware that I am part of an online community that has helped me tremendously, I still want to keep that for just me.
Cheers
I will reach out soon to everyone soon.
I did not slap you'r limpass wrist MHL, I was confirming your assumptions.
Bring you a Corona?
You sure you don't want something a little stronger like a Appletinni?
That would be Eric's drink of choice.....
Remember who wears the tutu's around here.
If it is a little stronger that I need then maybe you could spare some Bulleit with a spash of ginger ale.
So I guess in the future I might suggest that a certain high profile, 7 Time Tour de France winner, with one testicle has a good view on detachment that is available on-line?????
Is that too specific????
Maybe a more general reference......
You may want to check out what cyclists with one testicle have to say on the matter of detactment.
Could be...
Maybe...
Could it be...
ERIC?
Could be...
Maybe...
Could it be...
ERIC?
maybe that is how he "fits" into those tutu's...
I hesitated making this post, as I originally thought that it pertained more to my D14 and the things she is dealing with especially being a 14 year old girl and what a young girl experiences as she is changing into a young woman.
After my S10 broke down again last night concerning his mother and lack of contact with her over the weekend, I had a good bit of anger towards my XW come up. Given the situation with my D14 it is clearly evident that XW is still DEEP in MLC. Unfortunately, I still find myself exposed to the madness even post divorce.
As many of you are aware my D14 has struggled with the actions and words of her mother over the last 2 years. As of right now they have no relationship what-so-ever and my XW does not attempt to contact her at all. My D14 has been seeing a very good therapist for the last 2 months as she tries to cope with the stress of her mother’s MLC and the normal stresses in a 14 year old girl’s life.
Last Tuesday night during her weekly therapy session, my D14 admitted that she has had thoughts of “wanting it all to end” and that at times she is severely depressed. She further disclosed to the therapist that last summer of 2010 she had considered “doing something” but decided not to because she did not want to her brother to find her.
At that point the therapist was duty bound to act and had to report the concerns. As a result, last Tuesday night I checked my D14 into a hospital for psychiatric evaluation and treatment because of thoughts of suicide. She is still there and we are not sure when she will get out.
While I personally don’t think that my daughter would harm herself I do know that she gets very depressed and sad at times because she morns the loss of her mother. I believe my D14 is in the right place and is getting the help she needs. My D14 is now on anti-D’s.
Because this has happened I have had to have more contact with my XW to give her information concerning our D14. Up until now I have purposely limited my contact with XW for my own good. D14 does not want her mother to have any access to her in the hospital nor have any access to her information from the hospital. I had to deliver this decision to my XW who immediately accused me of trying to control her and she started to take a harsh tone with me, which I immediately shut down.
After my XW calmed down we had about an hour long conversation about the situation between her and our D14. I stated that I did not want to hurt her (my XW) feelings and that if at anytime she did not want to carry on the conversation, that all she had to do was let me know and I would end the conversation. I also told her that some of the things that our D14 is saying and feeling are the same things that I have felt and would have wanted to ask of my XW in the past.
These are some of the things I communicated to my XW that my D14 said the night before.
Our D14 is struggling with the decisions and actions you have made in your life.
D14 wants to know if you realize the amount of pain you have caused and are causing her.
D14 wants to know if you realize the pain that S10 is in but says nothing about.
D14 wants to know if you realize the pain you caused me.
D14 wants to know WHY?
D14 wants to know why you lie to her repeatedly.
D14 is very, very angry with you.
D14 wants know why you don’t try to do anything until something major happens.
D14 thinks you want to act like everything is normal and that you did nothing wrong.
D14 thinks that you “just don’t get it”.
D14 misses her “old mother” and she does not miss the person you are now.
D14 misses having a regular family.
D14 thinks that your life before you went crazy was good, we had it all, nice house, good schools, friends, basically the American dream……now you live in a dump and her and her brother don’t like coming over to visit…….was it all worth it???
D14 doesn’t want to have contact with your family because she thinks that they support your decisions.
I shared with my XW that I thought she could have a relationship with her daughter someday but it would never be a normal mother/daughter relationship. I told XW that both her and D14 will need to be healthy individually before they could have a healthy relationship together.
I also told XW that she is still causing pain by avoiding talking about things with D14 and until she stops causing pain the healing will never start. I told her it will take a lot of effort on her part over a very long time with no guarantee of a relationship in the end. I told her that she needs to make an effort daily to contact D14 no matter what. I told XW that D14 needs to feel “worthy of her efforts”.
My XW expressed regret for not trying and that she knows that she is “messed up”. XW also admitted that she is not sure about what she did in the past that caused or is causing D14 pain. My XW also admitted that she does not remember things that I have told her she has said and done in the past.
I caution those that are reading this that are interested in saving their marriage, that this IS NOT a course of action to follow. I am simply documenting my experience in dealing with a spouse that is suffering MLC. I am DIVORCED and I am no longer interested in reconciling, however I am still dealing with MLC as I have to have continued contact with my XW as I raise my children.
At the end of the conversation I committed to calling my XW every time I visited with or had any new information about our D14,………..which I have done.
More…………
The conversation I had with my XW was last Thursday afternoon.
My XW asked me what she should do going forward. I really hesitated to give her an my opinion, I know I can’t fix her and honestly I just don’t care except that I know that her behavior impacts the kids and I am the one to deal with the fallout.
I suggested that she at least try everyday to contact our D14, either by text, email, or phone, if only to say that she loves her. Even if there is no response, she should never stop trying. Well, I had this exact same conversation with my XW on March 25th and prior to my D14 going into the hospital I checked the phone records for my D14 and found that my XW tried to call her once during the last 60 days and had sent 1 text in the last 60 days……………..I must say that this angers me the most and it takes all I have to not blow my XW out of the water on this point. I did share that fact of no effort , with my XW during our conversation on Thursday…….that is when she broke down crying and expressing regret for not trying.
Well, flash forward to last night and putting my S10 to bed.
My S10 was in the bed and I was saying good night and he asked if he could call Mom and I said sure……..I said you can call her anytime…..you even have your own phone. He then told me that he had tried Friday night a couple of times and several times on Saturday, leaving multiple messages to call back.
She never called all weekend.
He broke down and started crying saying that he “missed” his Mom. All I could do was hold him and comfort him, tears ran down my face as I held him tight………….on the inside the volcano was building and the anger inside was more than it has been in a long time.
I should add that I did not hear back from my XW after I left 3 messages concerning the status of D14 over the course of the weekend, granted no response from her was needed, however I did wonder if she was even checking her voicemail given what my S10 was telling me.
My S10 tried to call one more time and it went straight to voice mail, I told him that he could call in the morning, and kissed him goodnite.
I went downstairs and tried to call on my cell and home phone to no avail……..probably a good thing, I was HOT!!! I processed the anger, calmed down and let it go………
It pains me to see my children suffer……..
My D14 is very mature and certainly gives the impression of being far older than she is………that being said, she is still a child and she is in pain.
My son is also in pain and suffers silently most of the time.
Last night I realized once again that I will be dealing with my XW’s MLC for years to come, it is an ugly beast. I know my XW is in pain herself, and is running from the path of healing which is fraught with even more pain.
After I get over the anger, I start to think of the person I used to know as my wife, the person that I still Love.
As my pain fades into the distance it becomes easier to have compassion for the person that used to be my Wife.
I didn’t think that I would ever be able to be in a place that I could say…….
“I hope she gets better, I hope she finds her way……..I hope that she slays the demons that torment her and I hope that one day she does find happiness again.”
I know that I could never have a relationship with her again and I am okay with that, however I still struggle at times with the anger……….I hope that I slay that dragon when my children’s suffering subsides.
Even post divorce the music plays on and the MLC dance continues……
Cheers
Thanks for sharing all that your kids are going through. It is infuriating. The selfishness of these parents is mind-blowing. It is the one aspect of MLCers that I cannot wrap my head around and have not been able to find compassion for.
I do not have any words or suggestions to help you. We do the best we can to comfort the kids, help them not take it personally (how can they not!) Like you, I have spent hours holding a crying, hurt and angry teen. This breaks my heart more than my H ever could.
Forums have helped me so much in knowing I am not alone, and that their behavior is not about me. I wish there was one for teens to discover the same.
Hugs to you and the kiddos....
MHL
I do not know what to say....
Words cannot take or change what you and your kids are going thru. I am here in whatever way you need buddy...an ear, a calm voice...whatever...
You know where and how to reach me. Anytime....anytime.
((((hugs)))))
Eric
Sweetie, I am so very sorry for your children.
I know how hard this must be for you. My son has been struggling with severe depression for the four years this has been going on.
They are so lucky to have you as their father.
M, I know that it is hard to wrap your head around a mother who is causing such pain to her children. I cannot comprehend it myself.
I was never one to allow MLC to be used as an excuse for the horrendous behavior. They know right from wrong.
What I have done is acknowledge that I hate what my xh has done and how he's done it. I know I would have made different choices.
But, those were his actions. I had to accept that.
I know he is broken, as is your xw.
My friend, you cannot facilitate a relationship between your children and their mother without her willingness.
I know that is a difficult thing to comprehend
It is ok for you to be angry. Who wouldnt be? But, after you feel it, move away from it. The anger saps your energy. Energy better spent on yourself and your children.
So, continue to be the best dad you can be. Continue to let your children know that you are always there for them. You are their touchstone right now. If you are ok, they can begin to be ok, too.
You are doing all the right things.
You and your children are in my prayers.
Take good care.
MHL, as a mom I cannot imagine how your XW could be that way.
My H and I had issues with our D12 as well, she cut herself, but at least I am happy that my H put her ahead of his own issues. I can only thank God, and even if she is the reason for my H staying, I will accept it; I just can't imagine having my D go through such pain as yours.
I am crying right now and sending a prayer for you and your children.
I checked the phone records for my D14 and found that my XW tried to call her once during the last 60 days and had sent 1 text in the last 60 days…………….I must say that this angers me the most and it takes all I have to not blow my XW out of the water on this point.
Why not?
Why not blow her out of the water? MHL?
My son is also in pain and suffers silently most of the time.
We LEARN not to provoke, or push when it comes to our wants and desires, and THAT is good. We teach ourselves to be...dependant upon ourselves, internal validation, self esteem and respect.
IF she is needed in your children's lives, MHL, why aren't you blowing up at her.
There are no punches to be pulled here with her.
There is no marriage to salvage with her, so saying you can do what needs to be done for your children.
And the poor me crying time of hers? Best time to hit them, make the crocodile tears real ones.
The selfishness of these parents is mind-blowing.
Yes it is......I had a long conversation with my D14's therapist today. She has seen some effed up shat fo sure but she shared with me today that she has never seen such a willing abandonment from a mother such as my XW. She said that there are even "cracked out drug addict" mothers out there that show more caring for their children than my XW does for our kids.
I do not know what to say....
I don't either Eric.......Out of frustration I did call my X-MIL last night. She supported me through out the time I was standing, however post-divorce I have kept my distance. X-MIL had texted me a couple days early wanting to know how she could help.
I simply told my X-MIL to tell her daughter to "Wake up", to tell her she is losing her children and causing damage that will last a lifetime or more and unfortunately will touch generations to come.
My friend, you cannot facilitate a relationship between your children and their mother without her willingness.
You know Brook, I have mended the R between my D14 and my XW so many times now......it just doesn't work, she is a broken person as you said.
You know when she dropped the bomb she told me that I was controling and acted like her father......I cringed when she told me that. She even accused me of being controlling during the conversation we had last Thursday.
Funny thing is......she is trying to put me back in the very role that I have fought to shed. She wants me to tell her what to do. I simply want to put distance between us, however I seemed to get pulled back over and over again.
as a mom I cannot imagine how your XW could be that way.
I have been dating the same woman now for 5 months and even she doubts some of the things I tell her that my XW has done and she is a mother of 2. Every Mom I talk to just can't comprehend her actions.
Why not blow her out of the water? MHL?
Trust me Jack, I want to......I want too.
For now, I will say that is not who I am anymore. I was a complete ASSHAT prior to the bomb. I worked very hard for the changes in me and that is not who I am anymore.
There is so much more, but I need to sleep on it and visit back tomorrow.
Thank you all for your kind words and prayers.
I will keep you updated.
Cheers
Hey MHL,
I do not have kids involved and have NO idea how hard this is for you. Your words express it though.
All I want to say is my prayers are with you man, if you need to talk I'm here for ya too.
IF I had kids, without a doubt kids first and me second though. F her. This is one time you can be a A-Hole if you have too. Might not work, but if it does? Cool. If not DB is strong in you, do something differently for the kids. Do what you have to do. Post it here if you have to.
Whatever IT TAKES for your kids on this one. I support you and I'm thinking about you.
Sincerely.
MHL,
I'm with the others. I truly don't understand how a parent, (man or woman)can live with themselves when they do this type of thing to their children.
To me, this is the difference between a MLC spouse and a WAS. Many times the MLC spouse is so wrapped up in themselves that no one else seems to matter, not even their own kids.
I also have to wonder if this is the reason some of them don't wake up. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to realize the damage I caused to my own flesh and blood.
I, also, can not believe that the man I watched tenderly care for our newborns on up, would have ever have gone completely opposite and run from the responsibility of raising them the rest of the way up. Even to the extent of blowing them off while they were crying to him about how he'd hurt them.
I know of the anger of which you speak. I understand not loving or wanting the spouse anymore. I can't and won't ever understand not wanting your own children. Not only not wanting them, but repeatedly inflicting pain on them with actions and words.
Thank God your children have you MHL. My thoughts and prayers for you and your kids.
I also have to wonder if this is the reason some of them don't wake up. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to realize the damage I caused to my own flesh and blood.
I wonder if she ever will wake up but if I had to guess I would say that she never will "get it", and even if she did I don't think it is in her personality to admit it or apologize for it.
As I think about things this morning, I hate that I am forced to "look" in the direction of my XW again.
I am re-examining the nightmare...
I am wondering what she is thinking....
I am wondering what she is doing....
Who is she talking to.....
What is she saying......
I used to have these thoughts within the context of saving my marriage....
Now
I am just wondering how to raise my children with this person in their lives, especially my son, who is now feeling the affects of her MLC.
BTW......she still has not contacted him since she dropped him at school on Friday........F@cking amazing!!!
He is scheduled for his first therapy session on Saturday, June 4th.
Cheers
MHL,
I've just been catching up on your thread and I am also amazed. My friend works as a child advocate in the court system, and even the most drugged out, waste of oxygen Mom usually shows up to keep her kids.
First, Thank God your children have you. Do your best by them and you will be doing the best by yourself.
Second, I'd say quit trying to mend fences between your eldest and XW. Your D is old enough to decide this for herself at this point, and you need to be out of the middle.
Third, be a rock for your son. He probably has very scary abandonment issues.
Lastly, be good to yourself. Your XW has chosen her path. Let her follow it. If it is her choice to act like a spoiled child, there is nothing you can do about it, and as you said, you are not her father.
Blessings and ((HUGS))
There is no marriage to salvage with her, so saying you can do what needs to be done for your children.
And the poor me crying time of hers? Best time to hit them, make the crocodile tears real ones.
Don't expect it to help her though.
If I understand what Jack is saying
is to protect your children. Boundaries.
IMO there is so much guilt wherever she turns she cannot get away from it unless she disconnects with the ones she is causing pain. You and your children.
SO
Piling on more of the same? Guilt?
She IS NOT rational and applying logic to this will fall on deaf ears.
And anger you and upset your children.
Buddy my prayers go out to you.
The best thing you can do, and I don't have kids but it seems that you must do all you can for your children...
... what you did for yourself and that is...
Help them detach from their mother's craziness.
Any way you need to.
Tell them she is sick right now and it is NOT about them.
You probably have done this but it seems that you must give up the hope that their mother will act responsibly with regard to their emotional needs for a mother.
Interaction or non interaction with her is MORE damaging at this point than trying to get her to respond in a positive way.
Yes she has rights to see her children and be in their life but where is the boundary?
What is the boundary? to protect your children?
Why not blow her out of the water? MHL?
Trust me Jack, I want to......I want too.
For now, I will say that is not who I am anymore. I was a complete ASSHAT prior to the bomb. I worked very hard for the changes in me and that is not who I am anymore.
There is so much more, but I need to sleep on it and visit back tomorrow.
Okay, a little sleep helps and certainly the coffee has kicked in and a boring sales meeting allowed me the time to think about this some more.
Blowing my XW out of the water for her poor parental decisions would be a bad idea now (post divorce) just as it would be a bad idea if I was still interested in reconciliation.
I have to ask myself the following.....
What do I reasonably expect the outcome to be?
How will she feel after I unload?
How will I feel after I unload?
Will it make a difference long term???
I am still dealing with a person in MLC, she is going to do whatever she wants to do, and even if I can somehow affect her behavior short term the changes will not have come from within her and will not be real.
Worst case scenario is that there is a relationship that forms YET AGAIN between my XW and my D14....and then the MLC kicks back in and my D14 gets hurt YET AGAIN......
AND
I get mad AGAIN...
And anger you and upset your children.
This is the cycle that is repeating over and Over and OVER again.
I have spent much time running away from the storm of my XW's MLC, I have put that distance in place and I am at a safe distance...........FOR ME.
I forgot something............MY KIDS.
They are standing in the cyclone and they are getting plumeled.
I cannot stop the storm
I cannot snatch them away....(even though I would like to)
Help them detach from their mother's craziness.
Any way you need to.
Tell them she is sick right now and it is NOT about them.
You probably have done this but it seems that you must give up the hope that their mother will act responsibly with regard to their emotional needs for a mother.
This is what I have to do but I will say that it becomes a challenge as I have 2 children standing in 2 very different places.
Again thank you for the thoughts and prayers to all my friends here.......
Cheers
MHL,
I did not mean to tell you what to do.
My fear is that DBing might conflict with Parenting.
You know your situation the best brother.
M, you've been on my mind.
I kinda think that you cant fix this for your children. And as parents, that is instinctively (unless you are MLC and/or broken) what we want to do. It makes us crazy that we cant.
Have no expectations where your wife is involved. Trust me, your D14 will know if you forced her mother to be in her life. That would not be good for her either.
As for your son, watch him closely. Sons tend to keep things inside and find it hard to tell their feelings.
It really is your xw's choice the kind of relationship she has with her kids.
I know you get the fallout from her choice. So, you need to let those children know that you are not going anywhere, that you are there for them and love them. You can explain to them that mommy is going through something and though she loves them very much, she needs to figure out some stuff. Or however you want to explain it.
Then, continue on. Getting dragged back into the drama will not serve you well and therefore, will not serve your children well, either.
M, keep them talking to someone. Talk to their teachers and let them know what is going on. Find a female relative or friend who could maybe be in their lives.
I am so sorry, my friend.
Sorry MHL you are going through this. What comes to mind is you are trying to fix this for your children. Well, it can't be fixed. I am not sure why you are bothering and getting angry over something you can't control.
I get and understand that you want your ex to be a responsable parent, but she is unable to do that today. For whatever reason. I have been down that road and I get the anger and the no answering and responding to calls, texts from the kids. Being on the other side now, it was the depression battle that my h was dealing with that kept him as an irresponsible parent. It didn't mean he didn't care, but he was battling a deep deep depression that prevented him from being available to our kids and to me as well which he wasn't strong enough to get himself out of.
I can only suggest that you do the best that you can with your parenting which sounds like you are doing awesome at and let the chips fall where they may in regards to your ex. I am not so sure I would encourage a relationship with your kids and ex since they seem to be so hurt by her non-responses.
When my h was not home and the kids would call and he would not respond and they were hurt. I would simply say something like I am sorry dad is not returning your call. You have left him a message, so I am sure he will call back when he can and then just left it at that. I just let my kids form their own opinion of the situation. This way my thoughts and feelings did not dictate their relationship.
Best of luck. I wish it were a different way for you, but I guess this is life as we know it today. Doesn't mean that couldn't change though in the future.
MHL,
I'm really sorry for what you and your kids are going through.
You mentioned that D14 is on AD's. I can tell you that my youngest D is on AD's and the 1st one didn't work well. Just something to keep an eye out for.
Is she seeing a shrink for the AD's or were they prescribed by her Pediatrition?
My D has gone into crisis (cutting, suicidal ideations)and I know the stress of what your going through.
The last time my D went into crisis, I let H know with basic details (ie: cutting, suicidal) leaving him to ask any questions if he chose (he didn't). I made sure he had her Counselors phone number so he could call her for any further info. After she started see a shrink also, I don't think I did give him her number. I would if he asked and he knows D is on AD's.
There isn't much you can do for you xw. It's nice that she asked you what you thought she should do. Personally, I would have told her to contact the Counselor. I know that I may sound heartless about this, I'm not. I understand the anger that can build up behind all of this and how easy it is to spill over, not helping anyone esp your D14.
How is your son taking all of this?
That you are there and really present, will make all the difference.
BEAR HUGS
Hey MHL,
I know I do not post to you normally but a little birdy told me there was this guy on the boards who was dealing with the same sort of thing that I had with my XW.
I have read back a bit and while we are not identical we are certainly similar.
Briefly:
My d17 has not seen her mother other than once for 2 minutes in over two years. Her mom texts her maybe once every two months and its usually just a one liner that is for the most part meaningless and guilt laden.
My S14 splits his time between me and his mom. He has to deal with the nightmare that is his mothers life every other week. He gets sick and tired of her bull, but sticks it out because he does not like the thought of her not being in his life at all. Yet he does speak more lately about living with me full time and in his words "letting her live her life".
My D17 was in therapy for two years starting when she was 14. The therapist understood and agreed with her and her choice not to have a relationship with her mom. She did however make sure that my daughter understood that she does need a strong female in her life during her teen years.
So how do you deal with it? Well here is what I can tell you. The first thing is you have to view your xw as having an illness. You have to console your children as if she really was mentally ill. When it comes to your daughters relationship with her mom, stay out of it. Let the two of them work that out. Be supportive of your daughter, but do not get involved.
When talking to your xw, do not counsel her. Do not continue to feed her the map to success only to be let down every time. You have told her whats wrong, let it go. She is not going to magically change and become mother of the year. If she ever does come around it will take months, if not years, of work for her to repair damaged relationships with your children. No offense, and forgive me moderators, but fuckk giving her a call every time you go see your daughter. Let her get off her butt and go try and see her,. Even if she gets rejected at the door it will mean more to your kid that her mother tried. You telling her whats happening does not serve a good purpose for their relationship. Make her earn it.
There are medications that will help your daughter. Losing your mom, whether it be to a death, mental illness, or any other reason is tough on a teenage girl. They can give her meds that are non-intrusive but help her to stay level and not get depressed. She will be ok MHL, you just be her dad and support her.
Your son probably is in the same boat as mine. He sees the insanity, but its more important to him to have his mom in his life in some capacity than to not have her at all. She isnt calling him back, does that really surprise you? Really? Nah, its just easy to get upset and protect our cubs by acting like we are upset and in attack mode.
Allow nothing to surprise you, expect nothing and you cannot be let down, you are a single parent and you need to separate your relationships with your kids from your relationship with your xw. Be a single parent in every sense of the word. You do not have a competent partner that you can count on so stop setting yourself up for disappointment. You have gotten yourself to a point where she cant hurt you anymore, get yourself in that same place when it comes to your kids and her relationships.
I don't know if any of this helps or not, but I can tell you that it does get better once you let go of the woman you once knew and start accepting the one she is now.
Keep taking care of your kids. Thats what matters most.
Ian
Very cool ^^^^ for you to come back here for this sofaraway.
Sons tend to keep things inside and find it hard to tell their feelings.
I am one of these sons.
I haven't talked much about my own childhood but my folks were separated from when I was 8 until I was 13 off and on.
Mom was put in the hospital for suicide attempt when I was at summer camp (11 or 12 years old)
Try to keep things normal MHL.
It may be hard. But do the best you can. I don't remember much from that time of my life so good or bad...I coped the best way a child can I guess.
My sister, as most of you know, was not that lucky. And ironically she is my memory for then. She bore that burden.
I guess what I am saying is just be there for your children. Don't be the storm. Don't get caught up in it.
FOR THEM.
They need stability more than anything else now M.
Just focus on that.
The only thing I do remember from then is the uncontrolled emotion...chaotic and maniacal at times...all around me.
All you want is for it to stop.
It is strange I have not written or said this to anyone. What it felt like then.
At least not that I can remember. Your description of what is happening with your children...
Brought me back to that time.
I was the older brother though. Had to take care of my baby sis. So tried my best.
Your daughter may feel that obligation and the anger associated with it as a child thrust into that role.
Try to lighten her burden and let her know it's ok.
What you do for them now makes a difference.
Be the best you can be
as I know you will.
MHL, Thanks for sharing on this post. I am terrified that my D8 and S6 have your kids' experiences in their future.
My W is a product of marital problems between her folks. She has been in two failed marriages. She doesn't understand that the pain she felt as a child has led to extreme control issues which lead to begrudging compromise and blame for those around her when things blow up.
Most distressing is that she fails to see the pain she felt as a kid is being inflicted on our D at the same age by her choices. She has kept contact with the kids, but the cycle continues and I have no control over it. My W has spent the last two years looking for validation that she is a "good Mom".
However, your responses to your XW's actions are admirable and provide a road map for me to attempt to emulate.
The only thing I can offer is to be good to yourself. Sustained periods of high stress, being SuperDad have a devastating effect on your health. Your kids need you, but you need your strength. Find some time for breather. I struggled when I realized I was translating my anger and upset into impatience with my kids. Decompress.
Best to you. and thanks
Thank you for sharing this post MHL.
TG, that was very moving and hit me between the eyes.
I've struggled with similar emotional rollercoasters since stbx left and fought VERY hard to get her and the kids to reconnect. While it has resulted in daughter staying with her mom full time, I am very happy to read this as it reinforces that I did the right thing. It hurts, but the reinforcement helps.
Not even sure why I was reading your post tonight. Hmm.. good thing I did though
Hang in there and let the kids and their mother work it out. As Jack pointed out, you have nothing to lose by letting her know exactly how you feel. Let her be the one to hang up and put distance between you. Your daughter and son need you, and that should be your focus, right?
Peace,
AJM
Wow, I am absolutely overwhelmed with the responses here.
I find that I do not need to come back and drink from the fountain as often as I used to but when you do need it, the water sure is good......
Thank you all.
Update.....
I had an "family counseling" appointment yesterday with my D14 and a social worker, this is part of my D14's treatment program....no real purpose of the meeting other than to gauge where my D14 is at and talk about what things will look like when she returns home.
Well the meeting was only supposed to last an hour and I was there for 2 hours...........
My Daughter is doing much better......not out of the woods but doing better.
She can somewhat remove herself from the situation and can see what she needs to do.......detach from Mom......just does not know how to do it.
What is amazing to me is how much of what she is doing is DBing.
She is using the same language....Detach, Expectations, Spinning.....finding her path. I hate that she is dealing with this crap right now.......I feel as though she has somewhat been robbed of her childhood.
However....
I am glad that these issues are being dealt with now and not swept under the rug to be dealt with later in life in the form of my D14's own Mid Life Crisis. It can truly have a multi-generational impact......looking back on my XW's family history I can clearly see that this disfunction has been passed down for 4 generations now. IT STOPS WITH HER.....HOPEFULLY.
More than likely my D14 will get out of the hospital today or tomorrow......they are fine tuning her meds and want to make sure everything is stable.
As for my XW, I called her after the meeting. She had been texting me prior to find out the status of our D14. My XW does not have access to my D14 at the hospital nor can she get any information, there is a security code you must have when you call in. These were the wishes of my D14 and the staff in the facility have to follow her wishes, which they agree with her on...... Contact with her Mother would not help my D14, and my XW has complied with those wishes.
I gave my XW the factual details of our D14, without any of my thoughts or opinions, just the facts. After that I continued to talk to my XW about the fragile state that our S10 is in, I also told her of his breakdown on Sunday night b/c he missed her and the fact that she had not returned his calls over the weekend. Again I was very factual.
I said.....
The last time you spoke to S10 was Friday morning when you dropped him at school.
He tried to call you twice on Friday night and left a voice mail.
He tried to call you four times on Saturday and left another voice mail.
He did not hear from you all weekend nor did he hear from you on Monday.
It upsets him when he misses you and you do not return his calls.
That is all I said on that then I told her that I needed to tell her something else.
It is unacceptable that I cannot reach you or get a return call from you in a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the children......especially when one of them is in the hospital.
I tried to call you Sunday night after S10 went to bed, I tried on my cell, my home phone and left a message on your voice mail. I then tried to call your boyfriend's number which you have instructed me to use in the past because of lack of coverage on your phone when you are visiting him. His voice mail is full and he has no personalized greeting to let me know if I even reached the correct number.
This is unacceptable.......please do something about it.
Her response was that she would take care of it.
While I was talking I kept my voice calm and cool and it was very businesslike......
However
My hands were shaking I was so mad just talking about it.
When I got off the phone and calmed down I contemplated what would have happened if I "Blew her out of the Water"......
If I had unloaded on her she either would have hung up or responded in kind.......never really hearing the message that I wanted to get through to her......which was......
Make herself available within a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the kids.
Message sent.
Message delivered.
Mission accomplished.
More on my thoughts around my children in a bit.
MHL
First off, I hope the kids are doing better!
she has never seen such a willing abandonment from a mother such as my XW
I would suspect that you XW does not feel that she has abandoned the kids. Hell my STBXW would have responded “we’ll they are with their father”.
I agree with Grit comment down there VVVV
IMO there is so much guilt wherever she turns she cannot get away from it unless she disconnects with the ones she is causing pain.
She hurts and most likely feels the best way to avoid everyone else from getting hurt is to run away and distance herself. I would suspect that it is a vicious cycle…she calls the kids, they say they miss her and do not understand her actions, she looks inside and sees her selfishness, she can’t stand the pain so she stop looking and runs.
IMO, nothing you do or say will change this. Nothing. All you can do is continue to be the parent that your kids need.
I simply told my X-MIL to tell her daughter to "Wake up", to tell her she is losing her children and causing damage that will last a lifetime or more and unfortunately will touch generations to come.
I would have said the same….do you expect that this conversation will somehow make your XW see the errors of her ways? If so, then take a look at your expectation. You may be setting yourself up to get even more pissed off when she does not respond the way YOU expect her too.
she is trying to put me back in the very role that I have fought to shed. She wants me to tell her what to do.
As the only responsible parent….right now YOU should tell her what to do! You are telling her what to do for YOUR kids….you know this. Who gives a rats as* what she thinks about. What are you concerned she may call you “controlling”. Fine…you are controlling for your kids, which is what matters here.
This is one time you can be a A-Hole if you have too.
Maybe a A-hole with class and dignity is all that I would add.
IMO, take a step back and realize what you are trying to achieve and WHY you are trying to achieve it. If your goal is to help your kids through this process, (assuming you are doing it from a healthy place) everything that can be done should be done!
I wonder if she ever will wake up but if I had to guess I would say that she never will "get it", and even if she did I don't think it is in her personality to admit it or apologize for it.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here…..didn’t she probably say/think the same thing about YOU? That YOU would never change. Well U did. So maybe MHL, she may change. I would not put it past her. In terms of an apology, one day she just may. She may have to deal with the consequences of her actions…..just like in some way you have as well... Not your problem or focus though….your kids should be the focus.
Piling on more of the same? Guilt?
She IS NOT rational and applying logic to this will fall on deaf ears.
Thanks for this post Grit.
My Daughter is doing much better.
Amen!
It is unacceptable that I cannot reach you or get a return call from you in a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the children
Not sure if this will help BUT I have temporarty court orders in place that stipulate that STBXW must return calls within 24 hrs. Maybe something you can add back into the agreement. IF she does not comply and you feel it is in the best interest of the kids to REMOVE them from her craziness, well then you may want to secure full custody.
Bottom line my friend….is you MUST and I know will, carry the responsibility of being the stable parents in your kids lives. In some ways, I can relate to how tough and frustrating it is. Guess what, life can be tough and frustrating….IF YOU ALLOW IT to be.
Be dad, be friend, be everything you can be for your kids. As for your XW – time has a way of changing people perspective and actions….maybe…in time she will look inside and change – maybe not. Either way, you must do what you need to for your kids.
Close your eyes for a second……
Breath…..
Let go….
And go continue to be that kick as* dad that you are.
FWIW, I am proud of you!
Eric
MHL
i was suicidal. still am at times. without any frame of reference to what is normal, i believe my childhood was abnormal. and it still affects me these years later.
you dont have to be perfect for your children, you just have to be there always. you can admit fear, pain, weakness to them, they'll appreciate they're not the only ones going through it.
one of the driving factors of suicidal tendencies, for me, was feeling alone. as if i were the weak one while everyone else was much stronger.
boys are taught to internalize, let your son know you know he has pain. i believe a boys pain becomes anger. give him space to vent, even its beating a tree with a bat.
but most importantly, from what i believe, is to be there for them. try to be as consistent as possible, apologize if you slip.
keep up the good work, as bad as this is, i think you're doing a great job with the situation you were given.
MHL, my heart goes out to you in this. The rest are right - you will pay this price for a long time. The reasons are unimportant, but I think you can see how important it is to do.
Glad to hear your daughter is learning the skills to cope and even thrive. I'm also glad I caught this. I heard about my son a few days back and how he is not blaming himself. My daughter on the other hand... well, it'll be a while before that plays out.
Keep up the work and continue to focus on your kids. They need it.
AJ
Update
Well I am happy to report that my D14 returned home from the hospital last Friday night after spending 10 days there.
SHE IS MUCH BETTER.......THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE KIND WORDS, THOUGHTS and PRAYERS.
I never thought I would be a proponent of children being on "mood altering" drugs but I can see a "marked difference in my daughter since she has started AD's. I just wish that she had been on them for a couple of weeks prior to going to the hospital. It is possible that we may have avoided that whole thing.
I can see that she is still on the "rollercoaster" however the dips are not so deep and the peaks are not too high. She is finding while she cannot totally escape the "ups" and "downs" in life, she can make it through and still be happy........
a lesson we all learn in TIME.
As for my XW, I have found that my anger with her has subsided substantially. I can see that with regards to my children I was "looking" at her far too much. I was sitting in the theatre, drink and popcorn in hand watching the MLC movie play.
I found that I have had to "let go" of yet another expectation I did not realize I had.........that is the expectation that somehow my XW will at least "act" in the best interest of our children........
NOT SO........duh.
The other thing that I have come to realize AGAIN, is that I absolutely have to let the relationship just "BE" with my D14 and my XW.
I am no longer going to "advise" my XW on what she "should" be doing to "re-establish" her relationship with HER daughter. I got the following email from her yesterday.....
XW.......Do you think it would be okay to text D14?
Me........I think it is okay for you to try to contact your daughter. I do not know how she will respond or if she will respond at all.
XW......OK, Thanks!!!
That was all I said. I can see from her question and response that she might view me as the "gate keeper" to her daughter.
If she tries what I say to do and it does not work......I get blamed.
If I say that it is not a good idea to do or say a certain thing and there is no reconciliation..........I get blamed.
The more involved I am then the more I risk getting blamed.
Basic rule number one in dealing with MLC..........get out of the way!!!!
Amazing how simple the advice is..........duh!!!
A special thanks to Grace and Ian for sharing your experiences and perspectives.
AJM, I hope that your D16 will come around......FWIW my daughter just wants to feel worthy of her mother's efforts. Even if your D16 is not responding I think it is important to let her know that you think of her daily.
Grit and Ken,
I want to also thank you for sharing how you felt as a child. I know my daughter feels isolated and alone at times.....at least she is reaching out. I do see my son is internalizing it and try to be his "safe place" everyday.
To all,
I hope that my story can help you and where you at in the storm that you find yourself in....while I did not save my marriage I did save myself (with a little help
) and "saving yourself first" is the very best thing you can do for yourself....ever!!
Always, always remember......
Life is Good and it is Good to be Alive!!!
Cheers
The other thing that I have come to realize AGAIN, is that I absolutely have to let the relationship just "BE" with my D14 and my XW.
I am no longer going to "advise" my XW on what she "should" be doing to "re-establish" her relationship with HER daughter. I got the following email from her yesterday.....
XW.......Do you think it would be okay to text D14?
Me........I think it is okay for you to try to contact your daughter. I do not know how she will respond or if she will respond at all.
XW......OK, Thanks!!!
I know you know this, but I have found it best to stay out of the way as well. For me, it helps to stay out of the way of XW (whether MLC or not? Likely but I'm not a pro
It's the kids that need the help - they never had a choice. Getting yourself right and then working to support the kids... that's about what you can do, right? It is for me.
Thanks for the update and thanks for the thoughts regarding my daughter. I find that it is likely better to take the other approach - distance to let her grow. But she is in a different place than your family. So is my xw. She even surprised me by thinking of somebody other than herself last night. Brief, but good for my kids.
MHL - hang in there. My guess is that things will flip flop in a way that feels painful to you. My reasoning is that your children have a deep need for their mother and vice versa. Once your xw gets on solid ground, she'll find a way to reconnect with the kids and your kids may be like mine and feel guilt for reconnecting. You should not interfere with this, even though you may want to chew your own leg off before letting that happen. It's not about you, it's about them.
I'm just sharing what I've seen in my own life and with others that I've spoken to. Want to point out that there is a long way to go, but know that regardless of what is said or done, your kids will always know what you did for them and will always come back to you at some point - on their schedule and as they are healed. Help them.
AJ
I am in need of some advice yet again my friends, so once again I come to the fountain for a drink.
As most of you know my D14 has no relationship with my XW and my D14 recently came out of the hospital for thoughts of suicide over the whole situation. My D14 is doing much better and is on AD’s and also takes meds to help her sleep at night which helps also.
My concern today is not so much around my D14 but rather how I deal with my XW moving forward. I really am trying to have as little contact with her as possible. Just like my D14, it hurts me to interact with the “alien” that once was my wife, whom I still love. Can’t make myself stop loving the person that was my W, so I am “learning“ to live my life and raise my children while interacting with my MLC XW.
I want to get out of the way as much as I can……..
I really want my interactions with her to polite and cordial…..
In short I don’t want to give her anymore ammunition to load her “blame me” gun. I know I will get blamed no matter what, however I really desire my words, deeds and actions to be pure.
I do hope that one day the “fog” will lift from her eyes, not so that we can reconcile but rather be able to really move on or move forward as partners in raising our children. I feel that even though we are now divorced, I can not be her friend or be friendly with her while she is in MLC. My hopes are that the less I am around her the less I interact with her the more likely she will start to look at herself and see that she is the source of her own pain.
So now for the thing I need help with……..
D14 is “graduating” from middle school to high school. There is a ceremony tomorrow at the school. 2 tickets were given to each child for the parents to attend. D14 brought the tickets home last week and gave them to me. D14 asked if my girlfriend could come to the ceremony. GF said “Yes” she would come. (GF is at my house now in order to attend the ceremony tomorrow). This was all settled last week, I never even considered my XW nor did I mention the event to her. As far as I knew XW was not aware of it.
Well, 2 days ago I get this email from my XW…….
Do you have two tix to D14's graduation?
If so, who is going?
I did not respond, I wanted to wait until I spoke with D14 about it and ask her if she minded if her mother was there.
D14 said, “NO WAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!”
When XW was at the house picking up S10 for the night I said to her…….
I got your email and I spoke to D14 and she does not want you there.
My XW got upset and said…..
I did not want you to say anything to D14, I just wanted to come and sit in the back. I did not even want her to know I was there………….
I was somewhat at a loss for words and realized I needed to tell XW about the fact that there were only 2 tickets and that my GF and I were going, so I said……
D14 asked my GF to go and there are only 2 tickets however you can get more but you would have to sit in the overflow room where you can watch the ceremony on closed circuit TV.
XW was angry and sad and as she was getting in her car to leave she said….
I’m the mother…….
Then she left.
Yesterday I got a call from the school counselor (she is fully aware of the sitch) telling me that XW called the school seeking tickets. Counselor asked what D14’s wishes were. I told her the sitch and said I really don’t want to rock the boat with XW or D14. Counselor said that they would offer XW the tickets to the overflow room for the ceremony that all the tickets had been given out already for the auditorium and that all the kids got 2 tickets each, that is it, there are not anymore.
This morning I get the following email from my XW……
You know, I understand D14 does not want me to be at her graduation. But if you want to do everything to help us reconcile, you sure are not showing it by giving GF my ticket.
This is probably the meanest thing you have ever done. I would give anything just to be able to see her, even without her knowing. And one day if we do reconcile, I can say that I was there.
You kept me away from her in the hospital, now this.
I am open to suggestions, 2X4’s, advice just about anything………
I am thinking of not even responding………but even that is a response.
I also am thinking of the woman that is now my GF and her feelings in all of this too, I care about her and her children as does she about me and my children.
Cheers
~C
MHL....
First....Love ya MAN!
I do have a few thoughts and I will try to make it short.
A couple of things to consider about my response 1) I am in the position of trying to reconcile with my son so maybe my responses are impacted by this and 2) I still have moments of anger toward STBXW(okay so I hope she gets hit by a bus…just kidding), that said.....
I want to get out of the way as much as I can……..
Sometime I wonder if this is just us being tired of their bull. Tired or not, I do agree that you must get out of the way but as parents I think the manner in which we must do this is a very slippery and gentle slope.
In short I don’t want to give her anymore ammunition to load her “blame me” gun. I know I will get blamed no matter what, however I really desire my words, deeds and actions to be pure.
Personally, anything you do will place you in the blame me gun but you know this, so WHY do you always feel the need to be so polite and cordial. I get that you want to be civil and want to be a gentlemen but really man sometime ya just have to call it the way you see it. Your actions will be pure…just being real and honest.
I do hope that one day the “fog” will lift from her eyes, not so that we can reconcile but rather be able to really move on or move forward as partners in raising our children.
Remember this quote ^^^^….it is the basis of my ultimate response.
I feel that even though we are now divorced, I can not be her friend or be friendly with her while she is in MLC.
Friend…probably not and maybe never…Personally, I think you can be friendly with some firm boundaries.
My hopes are that the less I am around her the less I interact with her the more likely she will start to look at herself and see that she is the source of her own pain.
Hmmmm….think about this for one sec. Yeah, yeah, DB has taught us to detach well….Here is my concern with this statement….1) nothing you do, not do, planned to do, almost did, nothing is really going to “help”, “push”, “force” or any other word you want to use; look at herself any faster if at all. Personally, I think we ALL need to realize that we just need to live our lives. Let them completely GO. I mean, not even think about if or when or how or what could help….them look at themselves.
So I would be around her as often as I felt like it. Period. No “not being around her in any attempt or hope that she looks at herself”. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say here – I think I did BUT if I didn’t well…
In terms of the whole sitch...let me ask you a question….
Do you want YOUR D to have a R with your XW?
Are the actions that you are doing HELPING or Hurting? By actions I mean PUTTING your GF in the position to EVEN have to respond to your D.
Personally, it would not have been an option for my GF nor for my D. It would have been….”Your mother (lying slut whore that she is – sorry just kidding…I figured I would inject a little humor here) and I will be attending.
To D I would have said...I understand how you feel about your mother but she is still your mother and she should be a part of this very special day.
MHL, bottom line…IMO, your XW should go! I understand how your D may feel BUT
YOU can show her a better way, you can show her TRUE forgiveness, YOU can show her that although parents/people make mistakes…they should not have to pay for them for the rest of their life – that includes YOUR XW.
As for the GF….I’m sure you will understand…Heck….after all….she does get to be with LORD OF THE RINGS!
Oh…and the blame that your XW throws your way i.e. you kept me out of the hospital…well that is just bull and you know it. It does NOT though mean that she SHOULD not be a part of her D life.
Ask yourself one more question………
If you were “distant” with your D for whatever reason…what would you like for the other parent to do?
You’re in a tough one Bro….I love ya like a brother so know that I will support you in whatever you decide.
I leave you with this....Be a man..and be a father…..BOTH must make TOUGH CHOICES……
Do what is right for YOUR D...not just NOW...but for the rest of her life.
God Bless,
Eric
In short I don’t want to give her anymore ammunition to load her “blame me” gun. I know I will get blamed no matter what, however I really desire my words, deeds and actions to be pure.
MHL,
This struck me.
I think this affects you more than you would care to admit.
...knowing you will get blammed...
When I forgave myself, when we were seprated, when ponies fell out of the sky...you get my point...AFTER I was truly at the point of 'loving' my wife but : ) Not being in love with her.
I simply didn't care about her 'blame gun'; not only was I teflon coated; I was immune. I forgave myself, her button pushing went to wires I had pulled out.
As for your situation...
I can only offer hindsight and a little advice.
Me: Then start acting like it. Not just texting and calling when its convientient to you and your schedule.
But if you want to do everything to help us reconcile, you sure are not showing it by giving GF my ticket.
This is probably the meanest thing you have ever done. I would give anything just to be able to see her, even without her knowing. And one day if we do reconcile, I can say that I was there.
Me: 2 things.
1 - Stop threatening me about how I am screwing up this desire to reconcile. YOU start proving you want it and I'll act accordingly. But right now, I'm done with the heavy lifting I HAVE shown my desire, just as you have shown your desire NOT to. Time for you to put up or shut up.
2 - Not intended to be mean. I am in the middle between you and daughter. She wanted (GF's name) to go, it is her day. What does that tell you? I figured that if you didn't know it wouldn't be a big deal. Well you found out and now your upset, sound familiar? It was a lie of ommission.
Well MHL, those are my words, you can tell how I feel from them. My advice, stems from two things. When the WAW blames the lack of reconcillation on the LBS for their actions...it is BS. And when the WAW crys boo-hoo-hoo for being cast as the bad parent...when that ARE the bad aprent.
I see little reason to coddle them on the parent part. I see little reason to validate them when they hold failed or failing reconcillation over the LBS head as some sort of threat.
Too hard line for you?
Perhaps.
Likely.
Either way, enjoy the day with your family MHL.
Chimin' in w/ my .02....FWIW
I just had the opposite issue for my DS14's graduation ceremony. H said he had to work, meetings back to back, real busy, blah, blah blah. I know DS would have been devastated if h was a no-show, in spite of his anger towards him. (The anger is coming from the kids' perceived rejection by his dad btw)
Anyway, I told H to consider my 5 year rule.... Will any of the people involved in his meetings remember in 5 years, that he had to reschedule b/c of his son's graduation? (probably not) Will son remember that his dad wasn't there in 5 years? Definitely!!!
These milestone events are important pieces in the kids' histories. How will she remember it? Mom wasn't there b/c I was upset w/her and I gave the ticket to some woman my dad was involved with at the time. ???
I have personal feelings here too. My parents were recently divorced before my HS graduation. Mom gave Dad's ticket to her BF. Dad went anyway and watched from beyond the fence. I looked for him. I saw him. HE WAS THERE. I felt loved, in spite of all the anger and confusion that was swirling around then.
Hey MHL, still following your thread. How's everything going?
DW!!!!!
Hey good to hear from you. Was thinking about you the other day!
I slipped down to catch up on you and Ce La Vie.
Things are great for me!!! Hard to believe where I was 2 years ago.....
Life goes on post divorce and it is pretty good, I have been dating the same woman since last December and it is going well, in fact just booked a getaway to Cancun with her just the other day!!
No wedding bells on the horizon or anything like that but it is definitely a serious, committed relationship. I will say that the second time around is much different.......I see my role in the relationship so much clearer now as oposed to when I met my XW.
I have little to no interaction with my XW and if we do it is mostly via email and text. My daughter does not speak to her nor does she even see her and I don't see that my XW is making any attempts to reach out to her daughter. My son still goes to see his mom but as he gets older I can tell it does not interest him as much.
I don't know where my XW is on her journey and I just don't care anymore, if you read a couple of posts up you can see that she still harbors some anger, however most of the time she is pleasant and polite towards me when on the rare occassion that we do talk.
I did take note of something my XW said a couple of months ago when I was making arrangements to get the rest of her stuff out of my house. My XW needed to come over to the house to make a decision on some stuff and my GF was in town (GF lives 1.5 hours away), My XW said that she preferred to come over to the house when my GF was not going to be there and i simply said okay.
Thinking back on it I remembered back when I was on the rollercoaster and my XW was out on the dating scene and we had an argument.......She said at that time that I she wished that I would just "meet someone else", she would "be happy" for me and that I deserved it!!!
I guess that now that it has happened it is not so "happy" for her......hmmmmm......I guess it is true......believe nothing they say!!!!
Hope things are going well for you too.
How are your kids doing?
Cheers
Hi MHL!
So happy to read that things are going well and that life is good!!!
Me too my friend...
And look it's c-dub ^^^^!