Decided to start a new thread because the old one was getting a little large and also, I think I may be entering a new stage. Links to my previous threads are here
Thread 1 Thread 2 So this weekend, H seemed a bit more withdrawn. Still emailed and texted but it seemed a little more reserved. He knew he was invited to a pumpkin festival on Saturday but never contacted us about it. D and I went regardless and had a good time. I knew he needed his space and didn't waste time fretting about it. He called on Sunday evening and we video chatted for a bit. He told me his next IC appt was on Monday.
Monday was a typical Monday for us. D has her martial arts class and then we always go together for a sushi dinner. During dinner, H mentioned that his therapy appt was very interesting. I said interesting good? He said it was interesting and that he'd talk to me later since D was there. Dinner was good and he and D had a long conversation post dinner. D has a lot of apathy towards school and H reached an agreement with her (this was out of my earshot at the time) that if she did well, we would go on a trip in the summer. She agreed and they shook on it. When I came back, H told me their agreement. Despite my best attempts, I couldn't help but end up tearing up when he said that. That seemed to concern him a lot and I told him not to worry about it. I knew why I teared up but didn't feel like it was a good time to mention it since D was there.
Once at home H asked if he could call. We discussed my tearing up briefly. I told him that for the longest time, I have refrained from thinking too far in the future. I have been living life one day at at time never knowing what the future might hold. Him talking about summer plans was a bit jarring because I'm no longer accustomed to thinking that far ahead. I didn't mention this to him, but his statement was also jarring because his statement implied togetherness. H said he understood and went on to describe his therapy session. He said it was good because he really felt like he came to grips with a lot of things. He realizes he has issues with being happy and realizes that it has mostly to do with him and seeking external validation (he's been reading the DB book). He said that in discussing with his therapist, he really took a good hard look at what he would need in his life to be happy. And that he's decided that he wants to make us work. We briefly discussed some of his workoholic issues and how those would need to be addressed. While he agrees that he has work to do on himself, he said that both he and his therapist agree that some of those issues would be better tackled with him back in the home rather than delay that any further. The issue of his workaholicism for example, would be easier for him to resolve if he actually had an easily accessible family for him to spend time with.
I told him that I couldn't disagree with any of his points, however, there was the very obvious problem of a midwestern OW. Laughably, he told me not to worry about that. In fact, when he said it, I DID laugh out loud because that's so NOT easy to not worry about. But he continued. He said that he knows that that R needs to be killed dead before we can move on. He said that currently, the R is in limbo and he can't leave it hanging any longer and that it wasn't fair to her. I agreed. He said that in therapy they had discussed the fact that he has difficulty upsetting people or hurting people. But that he realizes this situation mandated hurting someone and that he was going to have to deal with that.
The conversation was interesting for several reasons. Although he's clearly been coming towards me recently, he had NEVER said he was coming back to me. Until now. And although I initially thought he had implied he was getting rid of OW several weeks ago, I later realized he had NEVER really said that. Until now. And more importantly to me, he did not seem the least bit conflicted. He seemed calm, non-confused and at peace with his decision. I have no doubt dealing with the OW will be difficult. While at times I feel like saying "You get what you deserve by sleeping with a married man", at the same time I KNOW the pain and hurt that she will feel since I've felt it myself. And I'm sure there will be some pain and hurt that my H will feel. But what we pretty much decided is that I will give H the time he needs. When he's wrapped up the loose ends in the midwest, there is no reason to delay him moving back. We had discussed previously having him move into a spare bedroom for awhile. But since we've already done the do and still have a smoldering attraction to one another, I think we'll probably skip that step. But I did mention to him that we might want to keep a room available for him as his "man cave" in case he ever feels like he needs some "alone time". I don't know whether we'll do that or not.
I always thought that if this discussion happened I'd be elated and through the roof. And I'm certainly happy, don't get me wrong. But it's taken many little steps to get here. I think we LBS often fantasize about the day our WS comes back to us, apologizes for everything, asks for forgivneness, proclaims their love etc all in on romantic swoop. But that's not reality. I realize that there is still a lot of work ahead. I'm still not even convinced that he is moving back yet until I see it happen. OW is still around and his detachment from her may be more difficult than he expects. I don't know how long it will take for him to tie up his loose ends. I'll continue moving forward as I have in the past.
Al,
I am glad things seem to be progressing in the right direction for you and your husband. He seems to be coming to some realizations about himself and his happiness.
Sounds alot like the work we do on ourselves doesn't it.
Your patience is extraordinary and you are right about what reconciliation may really look like. There may not be this cathartic apology and vows of undying love, but I do think there needs to be true remorse.
I am pretty sure it was Jack that said he would be leary of any reconciliation without true remorse.
In your situation, I know your H has expressed some remorse however he is still technically having an affair and until he completely ends it and expresses remorse about it I would be a little suspect.
You are doing great!!!
Cheers
Update,
This last week, H has been a lot more out of touch than he has been the last month. He had planned to be out of town Thursday through Sunday at a town a few hours away for his job. I knew he was leaving town Wednesday evening. Other than a very brief text on Wednesday morning I didn't hear from him at all. I admit, it concerned me slightly since I had sent him an email asking him to call when possible because I had an insurance issue I needed to discuss with him. Since he had said on Monday that he planned to end his R with the OW, I had to wonder if that was finally happening. By Thursday morning I was still concerned but refrained from contacting him. Late Thursday morning he called me and sounded OK but frazzled. He said that the previous day had been very bad from an anxiety standpoint and he had to take several drugs to keep himself OK and I guess he didn't want to talk. I didn't ask if there was a reason. We chatted for a few more minutes as he drove in to the office and got caught up with a few things but then he had to go. Again, I heard nothing from him the whole day. I texted him once in the evening, just asking how he was doing, and got no response. Friday was much the same. I got a brief text in the morning but didn't hear a whole lot more. Friday afternoon, we managed to chat for a bit longer and he sounded better, although he mentioned that he really needed a Xanax refill. He was on his way to dinner with coworkers but said he would catch up with me at some point and discuss the craziness of the previous days. Not completely sure what that means. Conjecture is pretty much pointless, but I can't help myself from hoping that it means he had to tell the OW goodbye. I guess time will tell.
As for me, things are still good. Still progressing in my pole dancing classes and loving it. H continues to be intrigued by my descriptions but I haven't felt he deserved to have any sort of private performance yet. D and I tried our hands at skeet shooting today. D tried to back out at the last minute because the rifle was a bit scary looking, but I kind of forced the issue and am glad I did. She ended up doing much better than me and I thought it was a fun adventure. This weekend we'll be gearing up for a camping trip we have planned next weekend. In addition, unbeknownst to H, I bought 2 tickets to a concert in a few weeks being put on by one of his favorite guitarists. I've already arranged to have D spend the night at her friends house so that we have no childcare issues and can spend a quiet night alone together. It's in about a month so I'm hoping H will wrap everything up with OW by then and this "date" can actually take place. If not, then I figured I'd sell the tickets and still enjoy a night without D and do something fun. I'm certainly hoping for the first option.
Journaling,
So today was our usual sushi dinner night. Haven't seen H since last week. He seemed OK but also seemed to have pulled back a bit slightly. Not a major shift but noticeable. Dinner was OK and he talked with D a lot about some of her school issues. As we were saying goodbye I asked if he wanted me to call him later. He'd told me several times that he needed to talk to me about the craziness of the weekend. He said I could if I wanted to but that there wasn't really anything to tell. It was just that he had run out of Xanax. I said OK and D and I went home.
Once at home, I texted him to let him know that if there wasn't anything, I wouldn't bother calling and that I had only mentioned it since he had said several times that he wanted to tell me about the weekend. Again, he said there wasn't much to tell other than he felt like he was actually going through Xanax withdrawls since he had run out on Wednesday and his doctors office screwed up his refills and he wasn't able to get any more until today. He said at the time, it felt like it was more of a story than it actually was. THEN he says that he got to thinking that perhaps some of the "stuff" (apart from actual sex) might be damaging in its own way. I didn't really know what he meant by that and thought about asking for clarification, but decided it didn't matter. I just asked "is it?" He said "I think so to some degree". So I told him to "do what he needs to do" and to let me know if I'm doing something "damaging". He said "I know. Thank you
"
So I really don't know what the hell he was talking about. I'm guessing maybe the occasional smooching and flirting via text/online? I figured it didn't matter since I'll continue to let him take the lead on what he wants to do. I'm thankful that I've not told anyone about his statement last week that he wants to move back in. I have to wonder if he's not rethinking that. I don't know that he's reverted THAT far, but things are certainly going a lot slower than I think even he was planning. I'm glad I haven't really made ANY presumptions about that and am continuing on as previously planned. I also can't make any presumptions about the OW but without any evidence to the contrary, I have to assume she's still in the picture.
The rollercoaster ride continues.
it reminds me of a facet...cold and hot...off and on.
we never know what to expect from day to day.
I know that you are still focusing on you and D, which is the most important.
try not to get too frustrated and brush it off. Just think how frustrating it is for us and we are sane. The emotions they must all be going through would be horrible to experience.
SMILE and HUGS sent your way!
Thanks TAMF,
The stress of this all is definitely getting to me. My tension headaches are back again. H asked how I was doing and I mentioned my headaches. He joked that it couldn't be because of the sex. I just told him I was stressed in general and needed to stop thinking so much. He asked if talking would help (we were texting). I told him I wasn't sure and admitted to him that when he was gone (emotionally), things, in a weird way, were a little easier since I knew what to expect. Now things are very nebulous and that goes against my grain and as a result, it's stressing me out. But I also added that it was my problem, not his. He responded with a simple "Ahh". In a way, it was good to at least get that off my chest.
I admit this has not been easy. I've been trying my best to keep my focus on me and D. But since H has stated he plans to make all these changes, I can't help but think about them and wonder if and when he'll be making them. I'm back to wondering if my holidays will be with him IN the house or still in his apartment. Clearly, this line of thinking is not healthy for me. At the same time, living "as if" he's not moving back seems counter-intuitive since he's stated he plans to. ARGH. Frustrating to say the least. But you are absolutely right TAMF. As frustrating as it is for me, I know its 10 times so for him. I will strive to keep my self occupied so I don't have a lot of time for thinking. That'll probably be the best thing for me right now.
Update,
I guess my stress issues kind of worried H a bit. He texted me several times last night about my stress and then asked me to call him after D had gone to bed. The conversation was very helpful for me.
He explained that he had seen so many changes in me and wanted to make similar changes for himself. But he worried that by moving too fast, he might use me as a crutch for some of his issues and not truly tackle them. I agreed that was a valid concern but also stated that since I am a different person, the R HAS to change. I won't accept things the way they were before. I guess his fear is that if we get too close too quick, it may inhibit his own personal growth. I see his point and told him so, but also don't feel those are mutually exclusive things. He feels that since I needed to be alone in order to change, so does he. I said that my changes were certainly brought on BECAUSE of the situation, but it's VERY possible to change while IN a relationship. It was hard discussing this while trying NOT to seem like I was telling/begging him to come back. I truly believe that he can acheive the growth he desires while working on us, but HE needs to believe that.
He did shed some light on the OW issue. He had been visiting the midwest once a month. He said that he'd cancelled his October visit because of all the turmoil going on and that he just got let them know there wouldn't be a November trip. He really does have valid work reasons for going as well as the OW. So I guess that R is totally on the rocks. He said that he tried to broach the separation subject with OW on Saturday but since he was so screwed up in the head due to Xanax withdrawls and heavy stress, it didn't go well and I guess didn't end up happening. It pleased me greatly though to hear that he's at least making the attempt, albeit a failed one.
I guess with all the weirdness coming from him, it was screwing with my head and making me question a lot of things. In talking with him, none of his thought processes have really changed. It's just going to be VERY difficult for him to break it off with OW because by his own admission, he's a softy and doesn't like to hurt anyone. There will definitely be hurt involved since she was considering him marrying material.
The sex issue came up again. My issue against it was that at the time, he was still indecisive about the OW. Now that he's not, I'm feeling much better about it (but still cautious). We talked until around 1 and then he said goodnight. But then we continued to text until around 2 am, primarily about sex stuff. Not surprisingly, he ended up coming over to the house around 2 and we got it on. I admit I was a bit reticent but since I knew he was moving foward on cutting ties with OW, I ended up saying "screw it". This is my H and as long as I continue to see forward momentum, I don't want this to not be part of our R. He left afterwards so that there wouldn't be weirdness with D in the morning, so that kind of sucked. But despite only having a few hours sleep, I feel really really good today. I'm OK with my decision and have a better understanding of his current thinking.
In talking with him briefly before he left last night, I could see that my sex position was still confusing him. So this morning, I sent a brief email and tried to clarify my thinking (which admittedly is not always grounded in sanity). I told him that my initial issue was having sex with someone who in his mind, had not decided between me and OW. Now that he has, that mental block is lessened significantly and I feel I can move forward. Granted, if two months from now, he's still "trying to break it off" I'll be a lot less OK. So it'll be a daily evaluation I suppose. I realize it cannot and should not be rushed. But I did let him know that it should not surprise him that the OW is my biggest mental obstacle in moving forward with our R.
This whole thing is totally confusing. I'm not really sure what the best approach is in terms of moving the R forward. But I know that step 1 is officially getting rid of the OW once and for all. I will continue to watch and observe for forward progress on that front. As for me, I feel much better having had some things clarified.
You dirty little girl! sextexting until 2am and then you got him so worked up he had to rush over! He-He! Don't care what is right or wrong, good or bad...that had to be exciting. Nothing wrong with a little spice in YOUR life.
I hope he moves on ending the OW sitch soon...I will say a little prayer.
Try not to go crazy! talk to you soon.
Update,
So had a loooong talk with H last night. He seemed ready to talk and talk and talk about everything. Turns out he actually DID end things with OW last weekend. He was still pretty messed up due to his Xanax withdrawals even when I talked to him on Tuesday, so he left me with the impression that he tried but failed. He knows he left me with that impression and didn't do anything to correct it till now. This is what he told her.
He said he told her that it basically came down to a decision between her and D. And that unless he was at home involved in D’s life on a day to day basis, he knew his relationship with D would be dysfunctional and that he wasn't willing to do that. He said that she was understandably upset and tried to meet him halfway on some things. Turns out (much to my dismay), she's moving BACK to our state (probably within an hour or two from us) early next year. She was originally from here which is where H originally met her as friends. So she was trying to talk about a way of continuing with H with her being close by. H said he made it clear that would not work but expects some aftershocks.
I admit, hearing him say that was a bit of a slap in the face. Hearing that in a way, I played no part in the decision wasn't what I was wanting to hear. So I was a bit taken aback and introspective. When he asked what I was thinking, I was honest and said that hearing that the decision had nothing to do with me was a bit disturbing. He said that he could see that. But, he said, that was more for the sake of the OW. He really DOES want to fix his R with D. But he felt that by keeping me out of the mix, it made it harder for her to have a good "comeback" so to speak. When it came to a decision between her and D, D would always win. He reiterated that he had seen tremendous changes in me and that he was VERY happy with me and would not have decided this if he felt we’d go back to the marriage the way it once was.
He offered to answer any questions I had. I really didn’t have many. The main one was whether she would be attending the annual conference his job puts on each year in January. She attended last year and years prior and that’s how they initially met. He said that she had already stated that if she wasn’t going to be going WITH him out in the open then she wouldn’t be going. But since she already asked for time off, she may use that time to come back to this state and look for a place to live. I guess her STBX will also need to move back to facilitate custody of their son so it’s more up to him what town they end up moving to. He told me that once things settle down, he would like to be able to go out to lunch every so often with her. I told him in no uncertain terms that I had a HUGE problem with that. He asked if I felt that all contact needs to be cut off. I said yes and asked whether he understood why I might feel that way. He kind of did but seemed less than certain. So more angst for me. I’ll take it one day at a time and certainly can’t start stressing about what the future situation will be. But so far, this isn’t turning out well.
So I ended up very introspective and unsure. Was this really the R I wanted? Can I even truly believe what H is telling me? When he poked his head out of the fog, he said the factor that made him wake up had to do with the changes in ME. So I think I’ll take advantage of the mantras MLC=confusion and believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do. All his actions indicated he was coming back for me (and D as well don’t get me wrong). So to hear him talk differently has got me really questioning a lot. He hasn’t said anything negative about OW and I know (because he said so) he genuinely feels bad about the whole situation. I can understand that. But he also said that he doesn’t really feel like he did anything wrong. He’s apologized for all the craziness over the last year, but he doesn’t feel bad about this because in his mind he was done. As delicately as I could, I told him that that perspective bothers me and I absolutely disagree. He was still married. Hell, much to my surprise SHE was still married (but much further along in her divorce). And she KNEW he was still married. And I also mentioned that if he felt what he was doing was OK, he would have been more up front and honest to people like his mother. But he wasn’t. He didn’t really say much.
Our conversation kind of slowly died off as it got late and we both fell asleep. (yes this conversation took place in bed but no hanky panky). But prior to falling asleep, I kept asking myself if I was being fair to myself. What about this is bothering me? The fact that he hasn’t really picked me over the OW? Because he has. But he kind of didn’t. But the end result is the same and he genuinely says he is very happy with me. Hasn’t said ILY or mentioned the L word. But seems genuine in wanting to make it work. He realizes HE has a lot of work to do and seems genuine about doing it.
But then there are these facts. He doesn’t hate OW. In fact, I know he still has feelings for her and she for him. He ended it because he knew his choice in the direction of his life eliminated the possibility of moving forward with her. But he didn’t really WANT to leave her. The situation kind of forced his hand. So now finding out that she will be moving close by, and knowing that piecing our M back together will be fraught with obstacles, I’m very concerned that he could easily go back to her at some point. But then, I also know that fretting over these types of “possibilities” is absolutely pointless.
So then when he texts me this afternoon and tells me that his company wants to send him to DC for a conference, it kind of broke a fuse inside my head. I didn’t respond badly, just asked some questions about when and stuff. But I guess he detected my aloofness. He asked if it was OK with me if he went because if not, he could have a coworker go. Fortunately, I was on my lunch break at this point because I had a minor meltdown. All the pain and insecurities dealing with the OW came flooding back. I honestly did not know what to tell him. On the one hand, I absolutely don’t feel comfortable with him going. Why? Because I can’t rule out an OW meetup. Plain and simple. On the other hand, I can’t keep eagle eyes on him all the time. At some point, I have to learn to trust again. This just feels too quick.
Then there’s the other aspect. Why is he asking me? He hasn’t moved back yet. Until he does, I don’t know that I feel like we have a real R yet. And I guess I feel like I don’t feel I should factor into the decisions he makes. But on the other hand, we ARE married, he DOES want to come back and IS showing concern for my feelings. But then I realize my feelings are being kind of out of whack. So my mind ended up spinning and spinning. In the end, I bluntly told him that I didn’t know what to say and that I needed to work on me a bit more. He realized he had hit a nerve and tried to apologize. I told him he hadn’t done anything wrong.
So H wants me to call tonight and discuss this. I think he’s gotten used to seeing me be strong and OK with everything. Just because I can compartmentalize the pain and betrayal doesn’t mean it’s not still there. Now that R is on the table and these issues are coming up, these closed doors are starting to pop open and I realize I am unprepared. I will be as honest as I can with him. I don’t know the right answers to these feelings. For the first time in a long time, I feel I need to go back to IC or maybe discuss starting MC with H.
I certainly welcome some feedback on this. I think the biggest thing that is eating at me is I don’t feel like H chose me. I feel like I was the lucky winner of a coin toss. Insecurities? You betcha. The need for growth never stops.
Journaling,
Just got off phone with H. Conversation went very very badly. He sounded depressed when I started. I guess my obvious issues were causing him some angst. He wanted to know why I was upset.
I was very blunt and kind of wish I wasnt but at the same time, feel like I need to be. I told him that the DC question prompted some insecurities in me. My trust had been shot and it raised those questions. It also raised some of the hurt and betrayal I felt about OW. Told him that I was a bit unprepared for the emotions and that's why I felt I needed to work out my issues.
It was clear that my statement upset him greatly. To the point where I think he was almost mad at me. He said he greatly misinterpreted my state of mind or where I was in the process. I was calm but firm. I said that I didn't feel that was accurate. I have always been honest in where I was and nothing in the situation had changed. But that question did bring up some issues in my mind that I had to deal with. *I* had to deal with. Yet he remained tacitly upset. I told him that I had ALWAYS been dealing with these emotions and issues. And that on occasion I'm going to have a down day and that there will be bumps in the road. He said he WASN'T expecting bumps in the road like this. I told him that the way I saw it, our old M was over. The new M can be fantastic, but there is some rubble in the way before we can rebuild. He has rubble to deal with in tying up loose ends with OW, working through his feelings etc. He's not even back in the house yet. And I have issues also. And don't think it's unreasonable if I occasionally have a down day.
He wanted to know (kind of in a mad way) if he needs to NOT ask certain questions or try to avoid questions that might cause problems. I said absolutely not. No more than he should not ask me what is bothering me when I have a down day. I told him that the minute we start censoring ourselves or avoiding difficult questions, that's the moment we move back to the old M. We did that before. We made assumptions about things and avoided certain topics because we "assumed" it would cause issues and just chose to avoid them. I don't want that.
The call still didn't end well. He said he needed time to think through things. My only regret is in discussing the pain of the OW. It was real and it hurts, but I don't think he was mentally ready for that. I only said it to kind of make him understand why I got so upset, but realize I could have done so without TOTALLY mentioning the extent of the pain. So I think I did screw up there. But otherwise, I feel OK with my end. I just don't feel OK with his response. I will give him the space but given the tenuous nature of our new R, I can't help but feel some angst now. Just one more thing I have to learn to deal with.
Alb -
First - give yourself a break. Part of the angst of the LBS is the constant critiquing of what we should or shouldn't say or do. The bottom line is your H is an MLCr and you fell into the old pattern of believing you could have a sane/rational conversation with him and that he can demonstrate normal emotions.
Let it go - move forward -
IB
I was just catching up on your sitch. It sounds like you have been doing a great job. It is hard to express your pain when the other person takes it as a sign of weakness or a personal attack. Be kind to yourself. Your H seems to see how well you have been doing and hopes to get some of your confidence and strength by osmossis. It doesn't work that way though. You have to do your own work. You can't borrow someone else's.
Alb,
I have been at this for close to 15 months now and have never come close to where you are at in the process so I may not be the best person to provide direction/advice. Having said this, I will give you my thoughts. Do with them as you will.
First, you continue to amaze me and please take a step back and accept and acknowledge
all of the work that you have done. This stuff is not easy and I can only imagine what it would be like to try and restore trust yet you appear to be very thoughtful in your approach. It shows me how much work you have done on yourself. So whatever happens – YOU SHOULD BE PROUD!
Given where you are with your sitch I almost feel like a worthwhile investment may be to purchase some DB coaching sessions. I think you can purchase 3 phone sessions for a couple of hundred bucks. It may be worth the investment. Another option would be to post over in the “piecing board” and see if you can secure some ideas from some of the vets that have pieced. From what I have been able to read – piecing is harder than dealing with an MLCer in replay so you’ll probably want to center yourself and get yourself emotionally ready for the “real work” ahead of you.
I feel I need to go back to IC or maybe discuss starting MC with H
As for this ^^^^ I am sure it would not hurt to set up some IC sessions for yourself to help YOU work through some of the issues that you are trying to work through. IMHO, it is normal to have the insecurity issues that you, to your credit are facing head on. So knowing this is normal please cut yourself a little slack.
As for MC sessions, you may want to consider some of the 1 – 3 day intense counseling sessions i.e. retro Ville, new beginnings (which I hear is excellent) etc. However, I would really vet this out with some DB vets to see what they have to say.
Finally, with MLC everything takes time…a long time and you know this so, as much as you probably want to move forward with a certain degree of speed…taking your time is probably your best bet. I will try and reach out to some DB vets off board and see if they can pop over and provide you with some advice.
FWIW, I think you are doing extremely well. Slow….Alb…take it slow…
I wish I could offer more but you’re a smart cookie and I’m positive that at the end of the day you will shine with whatever approach you take.
God Bless,
Eric
IB and Zen,
Thanks for your kind words. They really meant a lot. It's great to have a forum like this to occasionally vent frustrations and hear from people who truly understand.
Eric,
I always welcome your thoughts/advice. Your idea about the DB coaches is a good one. I may just do that. I also will probably set up an IC appt but may refrain from telling H right now. He seems to be upset to realize that I am actually human. He sent me an email early this morning.
Hiya -
This will probably sound a little silly. I've seen such profound, positive growth in you over the last few months, that it really took me by surprise that you would have bumps along the way. You have seemed "normal" about things, as far as that can be defined. I guess what I meant by "misrepresenting yourself" was the thought that everything that I have come to admire and like about you was just a front, and that underneath you were still broken. That really scared me, because I don't want to slip into the same patterns that we've been in before.
I don't feel like this situation is that similar to what happened before. (He's talking about his previous affair almost 10 years ago)
I thought you felt that way as well. But if your reactions to things end up being the same reactions, then what is the difference, really?
I know that it's a work in progress, and a bumpy road. As dumb as it sounds, I thought you had your bumps ironed out, which was going to help me smooth out my own bumps.
That said, you have seemed a lot more sure of yourself up until a week or so ago. I'm a little worried that I might be causing undue stress and discomfort. Maybe you really are better off compartmentalized and separate from me. I don't know. I think we should really explore that idea before we go too much further.I've already responded. The response would be a bit too long to post but I basically told him that I am human, I have my down days, but know that I am strong enough to make it through them and end up stronger on the other side. I have been having down days this whole time. It's just that now he's around to see them and they clearly scare him. I also told him that if every mistep of mine is going to scare him and make him think that things will "go back to the way they were" then that is a recipe for failure.
I also said that through this process, we are both going to have times where we need our space to think. And that that's OK and healthy. We can't always be telling each other EVERY thought process going on because as evidenced today, sometimes it's just not that helpful. I think the fact that I harbored pain and betrayal about the affair was a revelation to him. I told him that I understood we had very different mindsets at the time. And I understand his feelings on the situation and that they are valid and real. But that he must realize my feelings may be different but they are no less valid or real. Just different. And despite that, I'm still wanting to move forward. It just will require work on my part. I can no sooner ask him to adjust his feelings about the OW than he can adjust mine. It is what it is and we move forward.
From what I have been able to read – piecing is harder than dealing with an MLCer in replay so you’ll probably want to center yourself and get yourself emotionally ready for the “real work” ahead of you.
I'm really starting to see this and see that it's very real. In order to move forward, a lot of issues need to be tackled. Yet, H is still in MLC mode and still sees a lot of things through his haze. He's moved forward a lot and I've seen a lot of growth, but he still has a tremendous amount of anxiety and depression. I will definitely take your recommendation and pop into the piecing forum as well. I can use all the help I can get.
Looks like I picked a good weekend to go camping. Will help me get re-centered emotionally.
Al - First, I am so glad that you are camping this weekend. You NEED to do something so your mind can relax. I hope you are having great time.
Secondly, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE FEELING RIGHT NOW!!!!!! When I went to breakfast with my H last week and he told me that he had actually had the conversation with the OW that it should end, he said that he told her that in the big picture the easiest people to hurt in this situation was him and her. He said that he couldn't give her what she wanted, which was a family. I said that he couldn't anyway, he has been "fixed". He then said that if he had it reversed and at his age (37) they would have a 50% of getting pregnant. I almost died right then. I said, "you looked into this? you actually contimplated having a family with this girl?" he said yes, but that was a long time ago. I kept my mouth shut. Then he kept talking about how us getting back together was the right thing and that it was about the girls. He needed to be with his girls. He didn't want to hurt the OW, but having children with her wouldn't be fair to our girls.
I just kept thinking...what about me?! And I know that he has real feelings for this girl, but children?!!! This really freaked me out.
We got in the car and I said that it was hard to hear him talk about coming back to me for every reason but me. He kind of got mad and said - what do you want from me? I said it was all okay, every girl just wants to hear that the reason is because you love me. Then he said that I had to understand that our girls were his top priority. Which I agreed! but I just didn't want him to come back JUST for the girls.
He said that it wasn't just for the girls...it was for a million different reasons. All of which point to us trying to work out our problems. He said, "I DO love you, we just have a lot to work on"
Remember he also asked at this point if he would be able to still talk to her - to make sure she was ok.
So I really think this is part of the MLC. Remember the OW is the way they self medicate. The idea of not having that support there for them I think terrifies them. It's an emotional crutch.
Also, his reaction to your "bumps in the road" is just like my H too! CLONES that they are! My H said, I NEED you to be strong. I can't be around you when you get emotional, because it makes me feel horrible, so much guilt. He begged me to be strong and as happy as I can be. This positive attitude from me is what is helping to get him through this.
This is going to be a long hard road to go down.
Journaling,
My camping trip was great. D and I enjoyed ourselves and learned a lot. We look forward to our next trip. When I first arrived at the campsite, I was still kind of reeling from the previous day's occurrences. I had sent H response email and never heard back from H. I was VERY curious about his thoughts but opted not to ask. Instead, I acted "as if" I was OK with everything. And in a way, I was. We hadn't really had an argument. And my email response to him wasn't argmentative, just more of explaining my position. And it certainly didn't warrant a response. So the more I thought about it, the less it worried me. So I sent H a few brief texts letting him know we'd arrived. We sent a few friendly texts back and forth but didn't really say much.
Once we returned home, I gave him a call and let him know we'd arrived. I also gave him a rundown on how D did (given that this was her first camping experience). The conversation flowed well and wasn't in the least bit awkward. But it still felt as though H had a bit of a barrier up. Part of the rollercoast ride I suppose.
On Monday, we had our normal sushi dinner. H was friendly and chatty, but there still seemed to be a barrier. Unlike other dinners, there wasn't any physical contact (ie brief hand hold) during dinner. We are still doing things hidden from view of D. Turned out that I had to go out of town the following day which would require my H to take D to school the next morning. Because of that, my H asked D whether she'd prefer if he stayed the night at our home (on the couch) or whether she wanted to spend the night at his place. She opted for his place. Therefore, we all drove home so D could gather some overnight supplies. As she went to gather her stuff together, all of the sudden, H grabs me, makes out with me passionately and says that he's bummed he wasn't staying the night at home. I told him I was bummed too. So he ended up telling D that plans were changed and he'd stay on the couch. Once D went to bed, so did we. I'll forgo the specifics since I'm sure it's obvious. But I found what happened afterwards kind of interesting. I told H he was welcome to fall asleep in the bed but he opted to go back to the couch because he said "it's still a little weird". So I said goodnight and fell asleep. About 15 minutes later, he came back to the room, hopped into bed and snuggled up to me telling me how much he missed that. I happily fell asleep once again. Then about an hour later, he left and went back to the couch.
In the morning, he told me he hadn't gotten any sleep and he had left at night because he didn't want to keep me up. What I found interesting about the whole thing was just seeing how "not together" he has it in regards to me. He seemingly keeps his distance at dinner and attacks me at home. Then he leaves the bed because of weirdness but then is back after only a few minutes. MLC=confusion indeed.
The following days have been much the same. He's aloof one minute, then sending me naughty texts the next. I'm just rolling with it and not taking anything too personally (which is sometimes hard to do). I'll continue to let him determine the pacing. He's mentioned several times that perhaps him moving back sooner rather than later will help D with her issues. She has recently been diagnosed with depression of her own and has just started on some meds. I told him that I'm sure she'd be happier, but I don't think it would fix her issues. So I continue to not have a clue as to when he plans to move back.
H mentioned to me that it must suck to have to deal with TWO people who are battling depression. I didn't say anything. But it sure isn't easy. I'm thankful that I have the ability to find happiness from within. It's something I've talked to H about at length and he just doesn't understand how finding happiness from within is possible. And yet, when he talks to D about her issues, he finds himself repeating TO HER, the same things I've told HIM. He mentioned that the other day. He says it's often easier to see the failings in others than yourself but dealing with D's depression is making him realize a lot about himself.
He'll be out of town again for the next few days so our contact will be limited. Just as all of you, I'll continue to take each day as it comes and get as much joy as I can out of each one.
It would appear you are on the right track. Hoping the best for you
Journaling,
Not much new to report other than H is still really confused. He went out of town for a few days last week. We were in contact a lot via IM, texting, calls etc. He was pretty flirty and in the evenings, he was all bemoaning the distance between us because the sexual tension was getting kind of high. Needless to say, I was looking forward to his return on Friday. He arrived back in town at the same time as dinner was ready and I invited him over if he hadn't eaten. He came over and enjoyed a nice dinner with me and D. But despite a short little make out session at the end of the evening, he seemed insistent on leaving and going back to his place rather than spending a few extra hours at the house. I was very tired anyhow and didn't mind too much. He asked me to update him on what the plan was on Saturday.
So on Saturday morning, I told him my plans with D and that he was welcome to join. He didn't call until around 3pm, long after D and I had already had our fun. I had a short chat with him where I'm pretty sure he unintentionally mistook me for OW. We were talking about movies that we might want to watch and he was looking online to see what Netflix movies were available to stream. He mentioned one to me as if I should know it. I said I didn't know what it was. He asked, "I thought you watched it and said you hated it?". I told him no. Then he kind of backtracked and said "I thought you did, maybe that was someone else I was talking to".
It didn't really bother me. It's bound to happen. But I think it bothered him. Because even though he had originally planned to take D and I out to dinner, he contacted me about an hour later and said that he didn't know if he'd be up for dinner because he started having some anxiety issues and wasn't feeling great. I told him that was fine and that I hoped he felt better. An hour after that, he said he was feeling better and we DID end up going out to dinner. Dinner was good and H was kind of affectionate towards me even in view of D which was a bit surprising. It was subtle though so I don't know if she noticed. But once again, in the evening, he seemed to really just need to go back home.
On Sunday, he had stated he would come over to watch a sporting event with us on TV. By mid-afternoon, 30 minutes AFTER it started, I finally texted him to see if he was still coming because it would affect my pizza order. He asked when the event started and I told him 30 minutes ago. He seemed surprised and ended up coming over, but I could tell he had been sleeping. And it was 2 in the afternoon. And yet again, once the event was over, he seemed to rush off. He made a not so subtle remark that he should come over for a "nooner" tomorrow but I reminded him that D was out of school all week for the holidays. Shortly after leaving, he texted me and said "Sorry for leaving so abruptly
" I told him "no worries"
Haven't heard from him since then. I have opted to give him space these last few days. Clearly he's still troubled. He may still be getting contact from OW (or perhaps initiating). I'm not sure how well the "ending it" has been working. The hardest thing about reconciling is figuring out when to treat H like the MLCer he is and when to be a bit proactive about the R. I've given him some space over the weekend but I think today I will at least ask if he wants to talk and mention that I could see he had a rough weekend.
hey girlfriend - sounds like a busy weekend. How is D doing with school? She is really lucky to have a mom that does so much with her, I can tell the two of you are very close.
Major point of frustration, this together / not really together part of your reconciliation...sounds like you are taking it a day at a time which is about all you can do. Hope it doesn't cause too much stress, don't want you getting more headaches.
Today I just feel like saying, "Men Suck".
More journaling,
Had our usual post martial arts class sushi dinner last night. H and I hit the sake hard and the dinner was delicious. He said he would "follow me home" to make sure I got home OK. Once at home, I sent D to bed since it was nearly 11. H arrived shortly afterwards and basically snuck into my (not our) bedroom. Fun ensued but there was some talking involved. I asked, kind of jokingly, if he had to be drunk to want to come over. Much to my surprise he said yes. And that otherwise, there was too much anxiety. I asked, anxiety about what? This caused a VERY long conversation.
Basically, my H appears stuck. He says that the changes in me are so good, that he kind of feels like it's a "sales job". He worries that if he "relents", that in 6 months, things might be like they were. I told him that I am not going to defend who I am or the validity of my changes. I asked him what his definition of "relent" was. He said that it basically meant him moving back in and renewing the relationship. I told him that I wasn't a fan of that word because it kind of gave the impression of weakness. But furthermore, if that was how he was viewing things, it actually caused ME some concern. I reminded him (because we've had this conversation umpteen times) that I CANNOT make him happy. If he moves back in without working on himself, he WILL be unhappy. He must find that inner happiness within himself first. And all I want from him is for him to find that.
For those of you in this forum that have found this place of inner peace, you know what I mean. But for my H, he cannot comprehend what I'm talking about. My H seemingly does not believe that all I want is for HIM to find happiness. His retort was, "Well what if what I need to be happy is to sleep with other people, or to become a thief or to do drugs!" A silly argument to be sure, but he meant it. I explained that once again, he is using EXTERNAL influences as examples of what will bring him happiness. True happiness comes from within yourself without the need for external influences.
Once again, he just could not comprehend that. He started in on the fact that he's made me miserable and hurt. At this point, I started to lose my cool. Partly because we've been down this road of conversation too many times. I got up from the bed, partly to take a break and partly to go get some water. He realized that I was upset and I did my best to calm myself down but it was admittedly hard and only partially successful. I told him as I got up that I am happy at my core and that all I ask from him is to take me at my word.
I got my water, calmed down, and went back into the bedroom, only to find him getting dressed. I asked why he was leaving. He said, in a snotty way, "you've made it clear that you're fixed and I'm broken and your super duper happy and I'm just bringing you down.". I told him that I am FAR from being fixed. There is no fixed point, it's a life long work in progress. I told him that he is NOT bringing me down. We exchanged a few more words but in the middle of one of my sentences he just grabbed my head, kissed me on the lips and said "I gotta go". He left without saying anything further.
Well I had a short cry after that. Wasn't sure what the hell had just happened. He texted me when he got to his place
H - "Survived the trip. I'm sorry. Not about surviving. I do want to talk about this stuff, but under different circumstances"
Me - "OK. Thanks for letting me know you made it home OK"
H - "I really do want to talk though. Not making light of that."
Me - "OK. You know where to find me when you're ready"
H - "Thank you for your patience and understanding. I deserve neither, but am grateful for both. I'll call you tomorrow."
So this morning, he texts me bright and early and apologizes again. I told him that his feelings were valid and he clearly needed a break and that I respected that. I just wished it hadn't been so abrupt. He agreed and then the conversation flowed to more chatty stuff.
MLC is still ever present. His confusion is great and he has a lot of work ahead of him. It seems I need an ever greater amount of patience than I did pre-reconciliation. I'm thankful for the time I had to gain that level of patience. The old me would have been yelling and pissed off right now and we would NOT be having chatty conversations the next day. But this whole thing has made me realize that if we are starting to have similar conversations that get us nowhere, that is a cycle that needs to stop. I need to do something different. Not sure what. Perhaps just NOT have the conversations. I'll have to evaluate that further.
Anyhow, I plan to enjoy this week. I will give a stab to putting up lights on the house. I've never done that before and the thought is scary. So bring it on! I'll have D on the ground with a phone with 911 on hot stand by!
Alb,
FWIW, I would suggest NOT having these conversations in YOUR house. If indeed you must have them, go out and have them over dinner or over a nice walk.
You are having these emotional conversation while BOTH of you are emotional (probably from having "fun"). This may not be the ideal time to have these type of talks.
Enjoy your holiday and be careful putting up the lights.
God Bless,
Eric
Hi Albu
I'm soo rooting for you!!! Oh what I wouldn't do to be grabbed and kissed right now!!!
I've been void of affection for 8 months!
I think when it finally happens, no matter who does it , I'm going to pass out from relief!!
Thanks Eric, that's a good point. Certainly something different may help break the cycle. It'll probably be several days before a talk like that is attempted again, but I'm thankful that despite some disagreements, he feels comfortable enough to initiate conversations again the next day in a very amiable manner. Far different from the dynamics we once had.
Pie, thanks for making me laugh! Don't think for a minute I don't appreciate the level of affection I have right now. I've been where you are and know what you mean. Strength my friend!
Alb I agree with Eric....when you have "intimate" time together try to avoid R talk....just concentrate on the bonding part of the intimacy....feeling close, connected...good. You know that intimacy releases certain bonding chemicals....let them work...leave the heavy conversations for another time. JMO
Rooting for you too
Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving and hope you non-Americans just had a good week!
More journaling,
Didn’t ask H if he was joining us for Thanksgiving until Tuesday. He said yes. I did the planning and shopping. It’s been awhile since I’ve done that since he did the cooking for the last several years. I made no assumptions and just assumed that I’d be doing all the cooking.
H showed up to the house right as I was about to prepare the turkey to go into the oven. I had also realized I was missing an ingredient for the stuffing right at the same time. He was nice enough to take care of prepping the turkey while I ran to the store before it closed. The rest of the cooking went OK. D and I worked on the cooking while H was on the phone with his mom. Unfortunately, D ended up burning her hand near the end of the preparations. This was her first year making the stuffing and she was looking forward to it. But the burn was bad enough she needed to sit it out, leaving H to pick up the slack and he did so with gusto. In fact, he kind of went a little overboard in trying to make sure everything was going to be ready at the same time so that nothing got cold. At one point, as he was helping me juggle all the pans, he said “I miss this!”, meaning he missed the joys of cooking for many people.
Dinner was great and as most of you, we ate way too much. We then settled down and watched a movie on the couch where H was very openly snuggly with me. At the end of the night, we both said good night to D and we chilled on the couch a bit longer. As has become common, one thing led to another and we ended up in the bedroom. This time, I made sure NOT to ask anything that could remotely lead to R talk. That was a success. And for the first time, H actually said that he wouldn’t have a problem staying overnight. Unfortunately, he hadn’t brought any extra clothes, toothbrush, contacts, or his sleeping meds. As he was leaving, he said something about needing to talk about starting the moving back in process (but he was kind of vague). So he bid me a nice goodnight and thus ended a great Thanksgiving.
Now that I’ve told the main story, I’d like to mention a few odds and ends that have happened. First, he has told his mother that “Things were looking up and that everything would eventually work out”. I was surprised at that since we still haven’t openly said anything to D although she HAS to have noticed that we are snuggle buddies now. In fact, he’s talked to his mom about us going on a cruise with his family next summer. Second, he’s mentioned a few times that it’s starting to bother him that he is acting like I am kind of his f*** buddy. He said “you’re more than that so we need to start acting that way”. I agreed but didn’t really ask what he meant by that. This appears to be moving forward at the speed of molasses (which can be maddening at times) but at least things are moving forward.
Another interesting thing that I noted was that on Thanksgiving, D and I were talking about wanting to see the new Tron movie when it comes out. H stated that we should rent the old Tron and watch it in preparation for the new one. D and I informed him that we had already done so recently. H seemed genuinely in shock and hurt that we had done that without him. SERIOUSLY. He even said (kind of joking but I know there was some truth to it) “I think that’s gonna make me cry”. He was shocked. I felt like saying “if you’re not here then you’re not here!”. But I refrained from saying anything other than we were both willing to re-watch it (which is true).
Lastly, I mentioned about a month ago that H had turned of his FB. Well he turned it on yesterday. I didn’t realize this until today. Once I realized it, I went to his page and was greatly disturbed to see the OW on his friends list. I guess since she was a frequent poster, she shows up on the main page. I know that when he turned it off, she was a friend and he hasn’t had a reason to mess with it till now. But I admit it bothered me. Still does. I guess I’ll just watch and see if she remains on the list. He’d already mentioned before that he felt it would be OK to remain friends with her and I said, in no uncertain terms, I had a BIG problem with that. As much as I feel like telling him I would prefer he defriend her, I will not do so. I will watch and observe. I would much rather see him make that move on his own rather than make any waves right now.
As much as I am pleased with my H coming back, I admit I have great concerns over his growth. He seems to have stalled. Not sure if he’s still seeing his IC or not. I will probably ask him when I discuss D’s IC appt with him. H still has some really big issues he needs to overcome. He has a combo workaholic/slacker issue that is still quite apparent. He gets distracted and can often spend hours reading websites, watching videos etc rather than getting anything productive done. Then, when it comes time to spend family time, he can’t since he’s in catch up mode. He had told me he planned to do a bit of scuba diving this weekend in preparation for getting D scuba certified next weekend. I know he didn’t go today because he was in catch up mode. What he doesn’t know I know is that he spent 5-6 hours yesterday watching Netflix streaming. I have great doubts he’ll manage to get himself to the scuba site tomorrow either. His problem persists. What will no longer happen though is that D and I will not be dragged down. If we have plans, we will keep them and hope he can make it.
Currently spending the weekend 3hours from home. D has shown sudden interest in drum and bugle corp color guard so she's learning the ropes at a weekend camp. Sounds like she's actually enjoying herself so I'm elated. Either she's finally found a calling, or her AD meds are starting to work or both. Either way, this is a good thing!
Sounds like you are doing great. Glad to hear your H is making some definite moves closer and that you all had a great holiday.
Sounds like you are doing a great job letting H set the pace in comming home. I know that has to be so hard to do. I also like that you and your D are keeping up your activities 'with or without' your H keeping up.
Hope I can someday make it as far as you have.
Hope the rest of your holiday is good!
Great Alb! It certainly sounds as if things are moving in a positive direction in your case. I must say you've certainly adapted to db'g must faster than I did. I won't say "with more success" because each of us has our own measure of success, even if we don't see it at the time.
Hope everything keeps working out.
Thanks Punkin,
The only true measure of success we have with DBing is OURSELVES. Some of us may reconcile, others may not. But we all need to be confident, content, and secure with ourselves. That is the TRUE reason we DB and in that way, we ALL have the ability to be successful.
I'm glad to read about your progress and the way you are giving space but also remaining clear in your goals and expectations. I think you're doing really well!
Journaling,
In my last post, I mentioned that I didn't know whether H was still going to the IC or not. Turns out on Sunday, he mentioned he had an IC appt on Monday. So my question was answered without having to ask. Anyhow, following his appt on Monday he called me afterwards and was chatting. As luck would have it, the call dropped. I tried calling back but didn't get him. Next thing I know, he's at the house. He said he was driving by and rather than try to call back, he thought he'd stop by. There was no real purpose to his visit other than visiting, but it was nice and D enjoyed it.
The visit was shortlived though because D and I had to go to her martial arts class. As D was getting ready, H hugged me and asked me what I thought about him moving back in and using his current apartment as a home office (he works from home). Basically he would "go to work" at his apartment since he has the lease there till March. But then when he comes home, he's home. That was one of the biggest problems we had in our R was that he was always working. I told him I thought that seemed like a reasonable idea. We didn't get the chance to talk much further because D and I had to go.
Afterwards, we met back up for our usual sushi dinner. Dinner went well and H mentioned to me (quietly) that he had packed a bag to stay the night at the house. After dinner, D didn't really understand why H came back home with us but she seemed pleased to have H around. I wondered if H was going to tell D the plan but he didn't. I don't think he's ready for that yet and that's fine.
Anyhow, after we said goodnight to D, we went to bed. It was weird seeing your H bring his small suitcase into your bedroom in order to spend the night. But it was nice to have him. We both drifted off to sleep but I awoke a bit afterwards and was feeling a bit claustrophobic. My H has always been a snuggler and has always chosen to move to my side of the bed to do that. So I end up often having very little sleeping room. Having NOT had to do that in almost a year, I was not prepared and actually had to get up out of bed to kind of calm down. I like snuggling and realized the insanity of my problem, and just walked around a bit before going back to bed. I'm going to have to work on the sleeping arrangments a bit to make sure I don't end up feeling that way again.
Anyhow, I went back to sleep and awoke about 430 am, only to find that H was not in bed. I got up and looked outside and saw that his car was gone. His bag was still in the bedroom though. I was a bit sad but I wasn't upset. I figured he had a sleeping issue or other reason to leave and went back to bed. Almost as soon as I got back to bed, I heard the email beep on my phone. I checked it and it was H. He apologized for bailing and said that he had trouble sleeping and then got up and read. While reading, he started getting an anxieity attack and hadn't brought any of his medication with him. So he opted to go home. He ended by saying he was sorry for flaking out and that he's really trying and will continue to try.
I didn't respond till the next morning and told him "no worries". I was glad he did what he needed to do. I also thanked him for trying. And it WAS obvious that he was trying. Prior to going to bed that night, I could see he was filled with anxiety. He even mentioned that he was considering bailing that evening and just going home. I told him to do what he needed to do and he opted to stay. But clearly, the anxiety got to him.
So progress, but again, very very slow. And that's OK. I think rushing anything would be catastrophic and definitely not warranted. I don't think there will be a "move in" date. I think he'll keep coming over some nights and eventually he'll be spending more time here than at his apartment. It's clear he still has a lot of anxiety about the whole thing but in a way, I think that's good. I read a book recently called Passionate Marriage. I thought it was fantastic. In it, the author describes anxiety as the difficult path we need to cross in order to reach a new level of growth. I know my H is struggling a lot with anxiety, but despite it, he continues to move forward and for that, I greatly respect his progress.
This weekend should be fun. H and I will be D free for 24 hours since she's spending the night with a friend. We will be seeing a concert in a nearby town. And on the weekend, we will be getting D scuba certified. H is a dive master and his good friend is coming in from out of town and is a dive instructor. I will also be diving so that I can remember everything. It's been years since I've been scuba diving. So it proves to be a very busy and interesting weekend.
I read a book recently called Passionate Marriage. I thought it was fantastic. In it, the author describes anxiety as the difficult path we need to cross in order to reach a new level of growth. I know my H is struggling a lot with anxiety, but despite it, he continues to move forward and for that, I greatly respect his progress.
I love this quote from the book - so very true for both the MLCer and the LBS.
Appreciate the babysteps!
by the way - TOTALLY JEALOUS OF YOUR WEEKEND!!! I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO LEARN TO SCUBA DIVE! Have a great time. I will sit up here in the freezing cold NORTH were it is 25 degrees and think about you swimming in the ocean with all of the fish you love!
Brief update,
This will be the first night that H and I spend together (since he left). We've made attempts at it before, but this time, there's no way out! We will be seeing a concert tonight (a surprise present of mine to him) in a nearby town. I've got D spending the night at a friends house. I gave H the option of driving back late tonight or just spending the night (together) a few hours away. He opted for staying a few hours away.
He has been plagued with sleep issues and anxiety attacks this week and has not made another attempt at staying the night at the house. Yesterday, in fact, he asked me out to lunch and told me we'd go at 1. His lack of communication leading up to one o'clock had me thinking he'd probably fallen asleep. At 1:15, I just went ahead and ate. He texted me at 1:30 and was apologetic and said he HAD fallen asleep. He was sad to hear I had already eaten. Strangely, I was not really upset by the whole thing. I was disappointed, yes. But it wasn't surprising and getting mad at him or at the situation wouldn't have helped. I could tell he felt very very bad about missing our lunch.
My main concern for this evening is that he may have a serious panic attack. I hope he brings all his meds! I'm looking forward to a fun evening and sincerely hope things go well. H continues to be making genuine attempts to improve and I think his willingness to force an overnight upon himself is yet another step.
Journaling,
Had a great weekend. Friday, H and I took off together to attend a concert in a nearby town. We enjoyed a quick dinner and a great concert. The performer was one of my H favorites and I know he was glad to finally get to see him live. H was very affectionate during the entire concert. Afterwards, we stayed at a hotel in the area. Let's just say we both enjoyed each other's company.
Despite trying to get away from getting into R talks in bed, H started musing about our situation. He told me that our D was really his lifeline. She is what kept him in contact and kept him from leaving completely. And she is what caused him to see the changes in me. He said that the OW had a son and by the OW's perspective, her relationship with my H was forever. She was talking about how the two kids would get along etc. Again, H said the quickness of the R was a bit weird (which I totally agree given the fact that despite them being a couple since about June, they only saw each other face to face once a month for less than a week at a time). Anyhow, he said that the thought of having to deal with step kids, visitations, not being part of D's life completely etc, was very hard for him to deal with. I'm glad to hear that H cares as much as he does for D but at the time, it certainly didn't appear that way. So for those out there still dealing with spouses deep in MLC, let this be a lesson that things aren't always the way they appear.
Anyhow, he told me again that the OW was probably going to be moving back to our state. I told him he already told me that. He apparently had forgotten but wanted to make sure he wasn't keeping anything from me. I asked if he was still in some contact (which I kind of figured given that she's still on his FB). He said there have been a few emails/texts but not much. He then brought up FB and said he needs to go through and purge some people. He realizes that if he starts to post something about his family, and the FB friends that he made via OW see the post, they may post some nasty stuff given the way he had to end it with OW. He said it was too bad that he will have to lose the friendships he made because some of them were good from a business networking perspective. He seemed sad but still determined to do it. I hope he does it soon because I realized today that it also affects my ability to post family pics on FB. If I were to tag him in photos from this weekend, the OW friends may see and cause an issue. So I opted not to. I don't like to have my actions limited because of this. But I'm not going to force the issue just yet. I'll wait. I've been patient thus far and though things move slowly, they DO move.
In the morning, I was glad to see that H was STILL in the bed and sleeping soundly. Apparently he had no anxiety attacks overnight. As we were about to leave and go pick up D, he gave me a great big hug and thanked me for the date. He said "I feel good when I'm with you. And I'm not used to that." I thought it was sweet but weird and just said nothing and thought about his statement. I guess he realized the statement sounded weird too, so he added "I don't mean it's weird to feel good with YOU, it's just weird to feel good period." That was better but still a slight concern in my mind and something I'll need to watch. I can't be his band-aid in making him feel happy. That needs to come from him. Fortunately, I see him making small but consistent strides towards that direction.
On Saturday, a friend of H came in from out of town. H decided that it would be best for him to stay at our house. Therefore, H decided to stay at our house. Thus marked the first successful overnight stay at HOME for H. Unfortunately, he did NOT sleep well on Saturday and had to take a Xanax at about 3am. But he stayed. I don't think D knows he did that since she went to bed beforehand and got up afterwards. Anyhow, on Sunday, we all went to a local spring to do some SCUBA diving. D was going to get scuba certified but panicked at the last minute. She was scared and crying. I could see that H was very frustrated but I think my patience with her prevented him from exploding on her. In the end, she bailed on the whole thing but I dove with H. I haven't been diving with him in years and had my own slight panic issue but worked through it and ended up having a good time. I got cold really quick though and didn't end up doing a second dive. H went on a deeper second dive with his buddy.
After the dive, H and his friend drove to another town where they will be working for the next couple days. D and I drove home. Before I left, H took me aside and said that once he returns home, he plans to stay at home. Course, he's kind of said that before and had trouble delivering. But I know he's trying and he's actually managed to do it once successfully. So we will see. We STILL haven't officially told D anything but he's being a lot bolder about showing affection to me in front of her. I know it has not gone without notice. Since I forced him to tell her he was moving out, I feel it is his place to let her know he will be moving back in. I think he's been afraid to do so because by doing it, he's kind of making a commitment to her. And while I know he wants to, the reality of it is a bit large for him. And that's OK. Everything in it's own time.
hey girlfreind - sounds like it was a pretty good weekend. I am glad that you two went on a "date". Sounds like he is doing better with overnighters (hope you are too) :-)
I am not posting for a while...just not feeling like it anymore. too much going on in my head - told H I was letting him go. Still attached to me, he doesn't seem to be making any progress. I am not either. I love him, but I need to let go. I printed off edivorce information and gave it to him. He asked if we could wait to discuss until after the first of the year. I told him absolutely - I just wanted him to see the information and what it would take to file. We hugged for a long time and put it off once again. I am just so darn tired of everything.
Journaling,
H returned from his trip out of town yesterday. Once again, his best friend stayed with us and H slept with me. And once again, he had sleeping issues. But unfortunately, that's not anything super new since he's had sleeping issues for years. But it appeared they were sleeping issues and NOT anxiety issues so that's good.
H had to drop his friend off at the airport super early this morning so once again D has no idea (or prolly does but isn't saying anything) that H spent the night. I wasn't sure whether he was going to come back to the house or go back to his place for the day. He ended up coming back to the house and going back to bed.
I have to admit the return of H is a little weird. I went into the bathroom and was very confused at why there was a toothbrush there that I didn't recognize. It seriously took me several seconds to work through the process of realization. And seeing contact lens solution in the medicine cabinet caught me off guard.
One sad event happened earlier this week. I had texted H to let him know he left a shirt laying on the bed. I jokingly asked if it was his way of leaving me a memento. He apologized and told me I should just hang it up in the closet since he needs to move his stuff back. So there I was, with his shirt in hand having to undue one of the ONLY good things about his leaving in the first place. I had to cut my closet space to half
I really was sad about it but the reason for it DEFINITELY outweighs the loss. But I am still a girl and do so love me some closet space.
Anyhow, today H slept quite late and then "went to work" at his place. That's the daily plan for now. He apparently plans to come back once he's done working at the end of the day and will resume his life with us. Now the true work begins. We've only tended to be together for certain reasons. Now he's just going to be hanging out all the time and I think this will be the true test of our reconciliation.
Alb, just catching up with your tread....things are progressing very nicely with your H in my opinion and I'm so so happy for you, keep up the good work
Alb - as hard as the future will be, it is fantasic that you are together doing it. I seriously mean it, I am happy for you.
Journaling,
It's been awhile since my last post and not much to report actually. Although H spent the night with us a few nights, it hasn't continued. I had to go out of town shortly after my last post. H stayed at the house with D. When I returned, he was friendly and all and we went out to eat. But as soon as it got late, I saw him packing up his stuff. He told me he had to switch out clothes or something like that, but I knew he really just wanted to leave. So I said goodbye and wondered why it was he felt he needed to go. He texted me a short time later and apologized for the abruptness of his leaving. I guess he had run out of xanax over the weekend and was having a difficult time keeping it together and just needed some time away. I told him to take his time.
The pattern has continued these last few weeks. In fact, he's also seemed a lot more withdrawn physically. For the first few days afterwards, I'd greet him with hugs and kisses but I could tell it wasn't comfortable for him so I stopped initiating and kind of just let him take the lead on that. He's been kind and still very engaging, but definitely has taken a step back regarding us. However, he's told me a few times that he apologizes for his issues and he's working hard to correct them and feels he's making progress. So even though outwardly it seems as though things have stalled/backed up, this may be a necessary bump in the road.
Once again, I've had to leave town for a few days and he's staying at the house with D. My main issue recently has been with FB. Although he's broken it off with OW, she still remains his FB friend. She used to "like" and comment on all his status updates. That stopped after he broke it off. But recently, she's started doing it again. H knows my position on the subject and knows that I feel that there should be no contact between them. He wasn't too fond of the idea when I said it many months ago but kind of understood. Since then, he's mentioned a few times that he needed to go through his FB and purge some of the friends on it. But he hasn't. As with all things, I will not be forcing the issue. What he does with his life and the choices he makes need to be his own. But I do not want to see her name all the time. I woke up this morning to see him commenting on the eclipse and seeing her comment back. So I chose to defriend him. I have not told him. I'm sure he'll figure it out eventually. I thought about it for awhile before I did it to make sure I wasn't overreacting. (I've been considering it for a few days) I don't think I am overreacting but welcome comments. I'm aware it makes me unable to monitor their communication, but if we are to be working on our R, I shouldn't have to be doing that. He will have to realize that. If H asks why I did so, I will be honest with him.
As for me, I'll be out of town until Wednesday night. I'm not sure of H's plans for Christmas. I know he'll be with us but I don't know if he plans on staying over on Christmas Eve or just coming over early on Christmas Day. I can't say his pulling back hasn't bothered me, but I knew going into this that it wouldn't be smooth sailing. I continue to see him working on himself but unfortunately, this stuff often goes at a snails pace. But forward motion is forward motion.
I've been looking at MC options. I haven't talked to H about going but I think I will start going on my own for now. When and if H actually moves back, I think it would be wise if we both go. If and when he moves back, I'll suggest it. For now, I'm trying to concentrate on continuing my own personal growth. I think for a time, I lost sight of that.
Hey Alb, just trying to catch up on some sitches. Always admire your grace and dignity in dealing with your H. It is so hard not to get pulled into their sickness.
Thumbs up on looking into MC for yourself. I did that early on and am still going. That and this board here have really helped me a lot. Don't think I would be holding it together nearly as well if I hadn't found safe places to vent and work through my current challenges.
I think you probably did the right thing defriending your H on FB. You have told him your issue with him still keeping contact with OW. This is the only way to protect yourself from his continued drama. He may be upset though, and may even see it as you punishing him. MLCers are most comfortable in the victim roll.
Take care, Alb. Hope you and your D have a good holiday.
(((hugs)))
Hello my friend! just catching up on your sitch. It is a process, this reconnecting and starting new. You are so strong and have kept your emotions in control. I envy that :-)
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you and yours Alb!
Peace
PEI
Journaling,
So it's been about a week since my last post. When I made my last post, I was out of town while H stayed at the house with D. The night before I came back, he was totally flirty on IM (which he hadn't done in a while). He made some not so subtle innuendos about stuff we'd do when I got back (if you get my drift). So as I drove back home the next day, I was looking forward to seeing him. About halfway through my 3.5 hour drive, he called me and let me know he wasn't feeling well and needed to go back home. D would just stay on her own for an hour or so. That was fine, but still a let down. Then, once I got home, the house was in a bit of disarray. Not horrible mind you, but certainly not as tidy as I keep it. It just put me in a dour mood. I'd worked 10 hours, drove 3.5 hrs, then came home to a house with no H as promised and a slight mess. I tidied what I could, ate a quick dinner and went to bed. I was starting to reach my wits end. I didn't feel married. I had a H that kept saying he'd move back but seemed to flee every time I was around lately. In fact, that night, I took my wedding ring off because I just didn't feel married any longer.
In the middle of the night, I was awoken by my H. He had driven back over. His first words to me were "Sorry I'm so broken". I was barely awake but asked why he said that. He said "I should've just stayed". Needless to say, that mean an enormous amount to me just then. It made me realize that he WAS trying but he was dealing with difficult emotions. He climbed into bed with me and I slept well.
I had to work the next few days but locally. H watched D at home and when I got back in the evening, he had brought his suitcase. He has been at home since. Each night, I'm prepared for him to say he's going back to his place, but so far he hasn't done so. However, he's still living out of his suitcase and hasn't put anything in the closet. But everything at it's own pace. Last night, he had an anxiety attack while in bed. I asked him if he needed to go home. He said he'd just take a Xanax and take a shower. He didn't sleep well at all, but stayed.
You may recall I defriended H on FB recently. After a few days, he texted me and asked
H - "You defriended me on FB?"
Me - Yeah. OW has started commenting/liking your posts recently and that wasn't good for my mental health. It was for me, not against you.
H - I know. I'm sorry. I should have cleaned house before now.
That was last week. I still haven't re-friended him. As far as I know, he's still FB friends with OW. He's mentioned several times recently that he doesn't like not being FB friends with me but he understands why I did it. I know he realizes he will have to defriend her in order for me to refriend him. I don't think the OW will stop posting on his stuff. I also know he will feel bad for having to do so and that is probably what's keeping him from taking that next step. I will be patient.
So overall things are looking up. I continue to take things one day at a time. I've been working a lot recently and haven't had much time to look into seeing a MC (for myself). But I plan to do so once I have a little more time available.
The busiest time of the year is just a few weeks away for H. He will be working at a conference for two weeks in a nearby town. I know for a fact that OW was at the conference last year and HAD planned to attend this year. However, last I heard from H, she didn't want to go if they weren't going as an open couple. However, she had already requested time off from work and may instead use that time to look for housing nearby since she's moving back to the area. So a bit of stress inducing times are ahead. But as with all things, worrying will help nothing. I will continue to take things one day at a time.
I wish all my DB friends a Happy New Year!
I am so glad that he showed up that night and hasn't left since! big step I think. I really feel bad for him...to have such anxiety over a small thing like sleeping back at home again. I am glad he is trying to work through it. That takes strength and determination when you are depressed.
You are my role model for staying calm and understanding. I say to myself "If Al can do it, so can I!"
Alb
[quote]You are my role model for staying calm and understanding[/quote}
This ^^^^ is an understatment!
Your doing well Alb...
Have a wonderful new year!
Eric
Thanks TAMF and Eric. Both of you are just as amazing.
Just a quick update. Something amusing (in a disturbing type of way) happened yesterday. As I've said, I defriended H on FB because the OW started commenting on his posts again. He knows this. He knows why I did it. So I haven't seen any of H's posts for the last week.
At dinner last night, H and D were chatting and D made a joke that I guess referenced some FB post. Then out of the blue, D exclaims "Who IS "insert OW's name" anyhow? She's getting annoying" My H simply responded, "just a friend" and left it at that. I said nothing but found it disturbing and funny at the same time. Clearly, her posting is continuing and probably increasing. And NEVER, and I really thought about this, has D EVER mentioned being annoyed by anyone on H's FB friend list before. Hopefully, this was a wake-up call for H. Perhaps not. Time will tell. Probably a damn good thing for my own mental health that I'm not FB friends with him. If the OW is anything like me (which H said she was), then she will be as tenacious as me and I'm pretty damn tenacious....
So has he ended it with OW or not? Does he think they are just "friends" now? With as much fb communication they have, it doesn't sound like it is over and she is trying to emphasize this on fb. probably hoping that it is driving you crazy.
Our men and thier inability to "hurt" the OW when it seemed so easy for them to hurt us is really disturbing.
Shake it off, stay grounded in reality and keep focused on us.
Journaling,
The day after the awkward D incident at dinner, I asked H why my D would be getting annoyed at OW on FB. He said he didn't know. He explained that he had made a post and she responded as did a bunch of others. That got us into a discussion about his keeping her on his FB friend list. He told me (and I verified) that he had defriended a bunch of friends he had made via OW. But that he had not defriended OW and he explained why. She is mutual friends with a lot of his coworkers. He states that he doesn't think she would do or say anything, but that not defriending her allows him to keep an eye on stuff to make sure she doesn't say anything publicly out of anger or hurt. He said that he regrets the whole thing, but still doesn't feel he did anything wrong because he was in a mindset at the time that our marriage was over. We've calmly disagreed on this topic in the past (his not doing anything wrong) so I didn't go into it again. He said that he's concerned that if he defriends her it might make things worse and she might say some stuff that could be professionally damaging. He knows that he's ended up hurting both of us which isn't helping his anxiety issues.
All of what he says is true. I know she knows a lot of my H's coworkers and his explanation has some merit. It doesn't make it right, but I see his point. He talked about being able to filter his posts so that she doesn't see them but that if he friended me again, I'd still see the posts she made. I told him that I had ALWAYS seen her posts even when they were together. It's not that that's the issue. I told him that if she's anything like me (which he's claimed) then she's as tenacious as me. And if so, may be biding her time or figuring that she only has to wait 3 years until my D graduates and then she can have H (probably a bit of crazy talk on my part but who knows). When I said that, my H burst out laughing and said "what the heck is wrong with the both of you that you'd want me!". I didn't find it funny and didn't laugh. I don't know that he noticed since we were having this conversation in bed. I told him that I didn't feel like I should jump through hoops in order to have him as a FB friend and he agreed. But he did say he missed having me on there as a friend and that he liked being able to have me see his posts. We pretty much ended it there.
The next day, I thought about it a lot. I saw his point and I felt that I'd made mine. Despite hating to see the posts, knowledge is power and I'd rather be able to see the posts and comments being made. So the next day, I friend requested him. That was on New Years Eve. He saw it that night and said jokingly "I'll have to think about that.". He has not accepted yet.
In a way, I like where this stands. Previously, it was me that was the roadblock. Now, it's in his hands. He can no longer bemoan the fact that I can't see his posts or that I'm not his friend. The ball's in his court. It wasn't my intention to do that but I like it and it's telling. As with everything, I'll continue to watch and observe.
These next few weeks will be rough. The conference that he works at is next week. This is an extremely stressful time for him every year and this year is no different. The fact that he's got all this additional stuff to deal with is not making it any easier on him. I normally would walk on eggshells around him during this time of the year and plan to do the same. I will not mention OW or FB or anything until its all over. He just has too much on his plate. He DID tell me that OW will be moving about 30 minutes away from us. She had the whole state to pick from and she picks an area 30 minutes away from us. Yeah, that's not coincidence.
As for H, he has stayed most nights at the house but has left a few nights due to sleep or anxiety issues. He continues to live out of a suitcase and hasn't moved any of his stuff back. Therefore, I reclaimed the whole closet again. If he's going to drag his feet, I'm going to enjoy my closet space. I see him trying to overcome his anxiety issues. Sometimes he pushes through, other times he retreats. He still does not wear his wedding ring. He is still seeing a psychologist although not regularly lately due to all the time needed for his job right now.
As for me, I continue my pole dancing classes. I wish I had a pole at home. Some of those moves are tricky and I could use the practice. I've also been dragging my feet on training, but it's about time I get back into shape for triathlons. It helps keep me occupied. I also need to read more. I was reading tons prior to H peeking out of the fog and that's seemed to stop. I need to get back into that.
This situation is certainly better than I had 6 months ago, but I am still plagued with doubt, worry, despair, fear, anxiety, suspicion etc. Some days are good but then others I feel like I'm losing it. These next few weeks will be toughest on me because starting next week he will be gone for 2 weeks and OW may very well attend the conference. I will be there for part of it, but due to childcare issues, can't attend the whole thing. As always, I continue to take things one day at a time.
Alb....
To me - you have the patience of a saint. As I read your post - all I want to say is "protect Alb / protect D"
I have faith in whatever decisions you make with those thoughts in mind!
IB
This situation is certainly better than I had 6 months ago, but I am still plagued with doubt, worry, despair, fear, anxiety, suspicion etc. Some days are good but then others I feel like I'm losing it. These next few weeks will be toughest on me because starting next week he will be gone for 2 weeks and OW may very well attend the conference. I will be there for part of it, but due to childcare issues, can't attend the whole thing. As always, I continue to take things one day at a time.
I am not giving advice to anyone right now, because I can't even handle my own situation. But I will say that I think those emotions are normal and if you didn't have them you wouldn't be human.
I hope for the best! love ya!
Journaling,
These last few days have been interesting. H has been plagued with anxiety issues. He's been at his place working most days and spending the nights there as well. He'd come over in the evenings and say hi, but then leave. He always apologized for needing to leave. I let him go without issue. But the mixed signals were getting to me. He spent nearly a week with us around Christmas. Then nearly a week away from us. It bothered me and I know it bothers/confuses my D.
The FB issue was just an additional issue. As I mentioned, I defriended him due to seeing too many x-OW comments. He understood but kind of bemoaned not being my friend. After our last discussion, I opted to try it his way and re-friend requested him. After about 5 days of him NOT accepting and him constantly keeping his distance etc etc, I had begun to reach my limit. I wasn't giving up, mind you, just trying to regain my footing with myself. My thoughts turned to divorce and custody agreements. The future is still very murky and I don't know where we'll end up. The scary thing (to me) was that I was able to have these thoughts without it scaring the crap out of me anymore. I took my wedding ring back off. I am not married. I am standing for my marriage, but that marriage is not around anymore. I don't have a H right now. I have a man who I'm married to who occasionally does H-like things. I UN-friend requested him on FB. If he was going to drag his feet on the issue, I was taking the issue away. He can come to me. And then when I received an email from him suggesting we do lunch the following day, I declined (something I've almost never done). I was kind and blamed work (semi-true).
Those changes were for me. To keep me grounded. Yet, as the DB book says, change the situation and changes will be seen. My declining lunch seemed to catch my H completely off-guard. He called me and seemed flabbergasted that I declined lunch. I was kind but firm about needing to work. He seemed to want to keep me on the phone and chat longer than normal. Then throughout the day, he sent me sweet short texts. I appreciated them and responded accordingly, but kept it short and sweet. That evening, he came over. He said he needed to do some work but would appreciate the company. When he arrived, he brought his laptop but never actually opened it. He snuggled up next to me and didn't leave my side. He was very snuggly and I enjoyed it although it was quite a difference from the previous week.
As nice as it was, he still ended up needing to leave that evening. He apologized profusely for needing to leave and said "I'm trying". I believe him. I can see it. It's just hard to see him hurt and hard to deal with it on my end. The next day, I awoke to a friend request on FB. I accepted. The rest of the day was very awkward. I ended up asking directly (after kind of getting on the subject) whether the x-OW would be at the conference he works at. He said yes. It makes total sense that she would. The conference is for veterinarians and she is also a veterinarian. He said it will be awkward and is causing a lot of anxiety. I told him matter of factly "she hasn't given up". He didn't argue the point. He then asked if I had given up. I told him that I shouldn't have to fight. The choice is his. But my door is open. He simply responded "yeah".
That evening was pretty awful. We've been battling depression issues in my D. Although she's started on medication, getting back into the rhythm of school has been tough and she was in a foul mood that evening. After a long discussion/argument with her, I'd finally had it with her. She said some pretty hurtful things, essentially saying that "no one in the family does anything unless pressured to do so". Given the fact that I've been managing the household solo for about a year, and I just finished making her a homemade meal, and I'm dealing with emotional issues with H, that was a blow I really didn't appreciate. I sent her to take a shower and emailed H. I apologized for bothering him given the amount of stress/anxiety I know he was under but let him know of her attitude (and the fact that she had threated to run away NUMEROUS times) and that I would probably spend the night in the living room in case she was stupid enough to try running away. I then went into my bedroom and had a good cry.
Less than an hour later, H showed up to the house. I was surprised to see him. He gave me a hug and as soon as he did that, I kind of broke down a bit. It's the first time I'd done that since the bomb. Ironically, the tears were about D, not about our issue. He just held me. Then said matter of factly, "I'm back". I said something like "I can see that". Then he repeated with emphasis "No, I'm BACK" (implying he was not planning to leave anymore). I just hugged harder. He said, "I don't know if I can make you happy, and I don't know if I can be happy, but it's gotta be better than where we are right now". He then spent several hours talking to D. When it comes to depression issues, he's a much better person to talk to her than I and I think he really made a difference.
I don't know what the future holds and whether he'll be able to stay as he states. He's only been back a few days and two of those, I had to go out of town. He leaves for the conference tomorrow evening and will be there for the next two weeks. D and I will go up there next weekend and hangout at the conference for several days. Knowing that the x-OW will be there is difficult but that's a bridge I'll cross when I get there. As always, I continue to take one day at a time.
Alb - so sorry about D! I can't imagine what you r going through right now with her. Scary. But I am so glad H came to the house. as much as we like to say we are strong and hear us roar, we can handle it all without them...when it comes to very difficult situations with our kids, we just NEED THEM! At least I do.
I dred more than anything about my sitch the thought of being a single mom. nightmare.
Journaling,
Issues with D persist. Took her to an orthodontist appt a few days ago. She was in a foul mood. When she was done, the dental asst asked me to please discuss with D that cursing in the back is not appropriate because there are small children around. I was stunned. When I looked at D, she just yelled "I'm tired of being nice to everyone!". Needless to say, she's grounded and I yelled at her all the way home. I've not "yelled" at her in a loooooong time. Part of my new found patience, but I felt she needed an ass-chewing. She said nothing. Basically told her that she needed to wake up and realize that if everyone around her is telling her she has issues she needs to resolve, chances are they are right and she's wrong, not the other way around etc etc. She's battling depression and hates school, life etc. In a a way, learning all about MLC has really helped in my understanding of what she's dealing with.
The next day when I picked her up from school, I asked her how her day was. She said it was better than the day before and the reason was because she's realized she DOES have a problem. She's not sure what exactly, but she realizes that she does. So that's a positive sign. I guess the mantra "do something different" can apply to situations where occasionally you need to yell at someone in order to get them to finally listen. So we'll see.
As for H, he has been working the conference for a few days now. He's been in regular contact with me and he actually sounds fairly good mood-wise which is unusual since this conference is ALWAYS hell for him. D and I will head over there after she gets out of school tomorrow and we will stay with him through Monday. We usually don't see much of him since he's so busy, but I enjoy the conference (since it's about veterinary medicine) and D enjoys staying in the hotel. I don't know when x-OW will arrive but I'm trying to keep that out of my head. Since she is friends with many of the staff, the chances of me seeing her are pretty high. I will do my best to not pay much attention because I really don't want that kind of stress. But I can't help but wonder what I will/would do if put in a situation where we find ourselves together. H works in a side room with a lot of other staff and it often becomes a place to "hang out". I don't want to be a bitch. But I also don't feel that being "nice" is warranted either. I considered leaving the area which is a good idea unless the area happens to contain my H in which case it seems like I should stand my ground and stay. Ugh. Anyone else had to deal with this?
It's been hard to gauge H's mood since he's working so hard. But I've noticed he's been in a fairly good mood all things considered. In the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder if it doesn't have to do with the fact that he will be seeing x-OW, even innocently. I wouldn't put it past her to invite H and his friends out for lunch/dinner etc. But then I rethink about the sitch and know that the fact that this conference is so far going a lot better than most, is MORE likely the reason for his good mood. As with all things, I'll take it one day at a time. I will enjoy the conference, learn lots of stuff, and wear hot clothes. That last part tends to help most situations.....
Ok girlfriend, this is what I would LIKE to do if I was at the conference and I was in the same place as her...
grab her by the back of the head and punch her right in the face.
This is what I would actually do...
Stand right next to my husband and smile - huge friggin smile. look her right in the eye when you see her. She won't say anything and she won't do anything. but if you don't seem confident she will sense it and dwell on it. Your confidence could potentially kill hers!!!
I am with TAMF! Hold his hand too! :-)
TAMF,
You're always good for a laugh! But I like your suggestion. Stand tall and proud. I did nothing wrong. I shouldn't be afraid and have every reason to feel confident. Thanks for the reminder. Now I'm half hoping I DO see her!
You could always give the big smile and then dismiss her, as she is nothing.
OR!!!!! you could walk up to her shake her hand and say:
Hi, I am Alb and you must be the woman who was F@#king my husband? so nice to meet you.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah like it so much!!
Update,
Just got back from spending 3 days at the conference. My H has been there for a week now and will still be there for another week. I knew x-OW would be there. I didn't realize she'd be WORKING at the conference along with my H. But it's not surprising since she's done that in previous years.
I arrived Friday evening and saw H briefly. He's always super stressed at this event and it's normal for us to have very limited contact. In fact, we decided that D would sleep with me in the bed and H would sleep on the couch (his job gives him a suite) in an adjacent room so that in case he woke up due to insomnia (almost a guarantee) he could work without bothering anyone. I wasn't too keen on the idea but it made sense.
On Saturday morning I went to the registration desk to get checked into the conference. That's when I discovered OW working the desk. I wasn't exactly looking for her but there she was. I walked up to the desk and gave my name to the person and then realized she was about 5 feet away doing some other stuff. My heart started beating fast and my hands shook a bit. But I kept it together and just concentrated on continuing to be nice and bubbly to the staff and held my head high. I acted oblivious but since I had to give my name and she was within earshot, she HAD to know. In fact, although I couldn't directly observe, I'm pretty sure I made her quite anxious. Once I got my stuff, I calmly walked away with D in tow and walked into the room where my H was working. I didn't mention it. Like I said, he has enough to deal with and he did tell me in advance that she'd be around. I let H know that I got my stuff and D and I went off to get lunch. By that time, I was feeling quite confident and secure. As TAMF pointed out, I have nothing to be ashamed of. I did nothing wrong. I have every right to be there and will not be changing my behavior. So I made it a point to walk by the desk again on the way to lunch.
I didn't see her again that day but D and I had a good time. On Sunday, I got up early (D was still sleeping) and went to see H prior to going to some of the sessions. While I was sitting in the back room with H just chatting, another one of H's coworkers was asking him a question. I was just sitting there listening to her ask him a question when x-OW walked in the room. I glanced (as anyone would when someone walks in) and then calmly glanced back to continue to listen to the coworker. Not sure if H noticed but not sure how he couldn't. But he kept it together and acted as oblivious as me. Not sure why she walked in, but then she walked through and walked out another door. I liked that she saw me there casually sitting next to H wearing my kick ass new thigh high boots.
Later in the afternoon, I walked back into the backroom to say hi to H. I had D with me and we both were sitting there. I was busy doing something and didn't even see x-OW walk into the room and sit at a computer. Once I realized she was there, I realized how awful my H was probably feeling inside. But to his credit, he acted fine. I acted oblivious as well. But made sure to hang out long enough for it to be annoying (to her). Eventually, I walked out with D, again with my head held high.
Overall, I enjoyed my time at the conference but found myself getting frustrated with H. He kept me at arms length nearly the whole time. Although he was the one that insisted I buy my kick ass boots and seemed excited about it, he didn't mention them at all when I wore them. He didn't actually kiss me until last night as he was going back to work at 3 am. I felt like D and I were more in his way than anything else. BUT. I didn't say anything. It just wasn't the right time.
Like I said, this is always a very very very difficult couple of weeks for him. He's grouchy and distant on a good year. Throw in MLC and an x-OW walking around and he was a mess. In fact I asked him on Sunday how many Xanax he'd taken and he said "more than is healthy". Did I have worries? Big time. Sure. When he left me at 3 am to go work, I would be lying if the thought that maybe he was going to have a rendez-vous with the OW didn't enter my head. But to his credit, even when he was involved with OW, it was months AFTER the bomb and he had already told me he was done with the marriage (part of the reason why he doesn't feel like he did anything wrong in that respect). So I must tackle these trust issues head on. And leaving the city, knowing that H is stuck in a hotel alone where x-OW is also staying can't be any bigger demonstration of trust. And I mean that for myself, as much as for my H. Distrust can eat you alive and I don't choose to live that way. I will do my best to keep my thoughts positive but still be keenly aware and observant. As the conference winds down, the stress on H will be reduced greatly and he will be able to finally catch up on sleep. At some point, I will want to discuss the past week with him, but not now. I have been taking his distance recently quite personally (hard not to) but I think he needs his space right now. I don't sense he's reconsidering anything. In fact, he introduced me as his wife to one of the hotel staff. That was the first time I'd heard that in a long time.
The plan thus far is for D and I to accompany H and his friends to do some SCUBA diving this upcoming weekend once the conference ends. H mentioned today though, that he was considering not going. This too, sadly, is par for the course. He always schedules a relaxing trip after the conference and then always regrets it because usually he's so exhausted and a bit tired of dealing with his friends (who he hires to help him out at the conference). So he probably will regret it but NOT bail on the trip.
Regardless of what happens with the weekend trip, I look forward to having this conference behind me. It has been a worry on both of us. H had tons to deal with work wise. I could see it. Unfortunately, I don't think he has even considered what kind of stress it has been on me. I struggled with headaches all weekend and I'm pretty damn sure it was my patented stress headaches making their return. But unfortunately as is the case with MLC, H is focused on himself only (and in a way it's necessary). I must continue to take care of myself.
This will be an interesting week.
I am so very proud of you and the way you handled the sitch with the x-ow! God how I would have loved to have been in the room when she saw you get up with your new boots on! I think I would have burst out laughing!
This week will be hard - all the images and thoughts going through you head. Just remember that your imagination is probably worse than what is really happening. Sounds like H is too stressed out over work to even notice her or deal with the additional stress that is "her".
Stay the course - worry about you and try to keep the stress down so the headaches go away!
Alb, so interesting to read your sitch. In March I will have a similar problem - we have a convention, both me and H will go, I will probably only attend a subspecialty day or two as I will be busy that time but need some updating, H will be there probably the full course of the convention, and OW (I don't know if it is X or not at this point, used to be X last Nov) lives in that city! So of course unless something major happens, she will be there too! I dread it. I am inspired by you. I better make sure to have a kick as* wardrobe by then!
I better make sure to have a kick as* wardrobe by then!
Definitely do it for yourself!! Clothes can make such a difference in how you carry yourself and KNOWING you look good is fantastic. Best of luck for your convention and definitely keep us updated.
Alb -
Well done! You are a class act! I hope you can enjoy your time with your D and just knowing that you are taking care of you!
IB
I really admire your grace and dignity under fire, Alb.
Journaling,
Had some contact with H yesterday via text/phone etc. He had to send me some photos to develop (our whole family is submitting photos to the state fair competition). The deadline is Friday and time is running out. He seemed pretty much the same. Friendly but still sounding super overly stressed out. Didn't hear from him all evening/night. I figured he was either sleeping or drinking with his pals.
Found out this morning it was the latter. He flew two friends in to help him with the conference. They routinely drink till 4-5 am and on days where my H can join, he does. But he's been realizing that AD meds/Xanax and alcohol don't mix well. So he just drinks less (ugh). So he was hurting this morning. He tried to call me this morning but I was working and couldn't take his call. I texted him a few times this afternoon and he said he was still having issues even though it was the last day and that he was popping Xanax to make it through. He continued to bemoan the fact that he had agreed to go diving with his friends this weekend and he totally didn't feel up for it now. I recommended to do what HE needed to do for his health.
This evening, he called and chatted for a bit. Told me about the day and the problems he had with coworkers. Brought up not wanting to go on the dive trip again but felt bad since his friends had made their flight arrangments counting on the fact that they'd go diving together afterwards. Since I was planning on renting a car to drive down there, I told him he might consider just offering to rent a car for his friends so they can go diving on their own. That way they can still go but he doesn't have to. He said he'll think about it. He said he always plans and then always regrets planning it. I asked if he regrets going after he's gone and he said yes. So I said it sounded like maybe he ought to bail, even though that WOULD suck for his friends. We'll see what happens. He told me he'd call me later this evening and prolly talk to D. I said great but didn't really believe him. Since it's nearly midnight, I think I was right.
So he still sounds pretty crappy. I've kind of taken a large step back in my interactions with him. I've stopped talking about myself at all and he's been so busy he hasn't really asked much. The few questions he DID ask me, he asked me numerous times (MLC amnesia still present). For example, I had a horrible snafu this morning getting D to school. He has no idea and I won't bring it up for now. He's not mentally ready to deal with his issues and listen to MY problems. I am DYING to know how his interactions with x-OW went. But I will have to wait for the right time to ask (or wait for him to tell me). They seemed to be completely ignoring each other while I was there and I have no doubt that wasn't/couldn't be the case the whole time.
But I see some positives as well. I think his retracting from me, in a way, may have been his way of dealing with the fact that he'd have to be retracting from her at the conference. It was easier for him to do both and just retract in general. A coping mechanism of sorts. But since I've left the conference, he's been the one initiating contact with me. I haven't called him at all. He's called me numerous times. I tend to send him short "good morning" emails and he usually responds. I do it just to let him know I'm thinking about him without actually saying so. And I keep the email short and light hearted. Although I was looking forward to a weekend trip, I think I'd prefer if he'd bail on the trip with his friends. He has eaten about 1/2 a meal every other day and has slept for about 2 hours a day since getting there last week. He needs to recuperate. Where he would recuperate is still a question. He said he was "back home" shortly before the conference. I wonder if he still feels that way or if he will retreat to his place to recover. In a way, I would be OK if he did so. He kind of needs some peace and quiet.
you sound pretty good - hows the headaches?
So I got pretty mad today. It's been awhile. As you may know if you've been following my sitch, H has been planning this dive trip this weekend for months. Originally, D and I were going to dive with him and his friends. Unfortunately, since she freaked out at her dive certification, she didn't get certified and can't dive. I had planned to just go with D and we could see the sights and they could dive and we could hang out together in the evening.
Despite my repeated request (over the last month) for some clarification into the dates, times we'd be leaving, etc, I got none. He'd tell me he needed to "talk to the guys" and figure it out. Yesterday, he still seemed like he'd bail on the whole thing. So I was surprised today to see him announcing on FB that he would be in the keys this weekend. I texted him and asked if he'd decided the plan. He told me not completely but he'd call me shortly.
Several hours later, he texted me to ask what my plan was with D. I told him I didn't know since I didn't know what the plan WAS. Didn't even know where we were going or anything. Several minutes later, he texted me to say that this won't be a very family fun type dive trip. I didn't respond. Then he texted me and said that he needed to just do this and then we could go scalloping. I had no idea what THAT meant and still didn't respond. Then he texted me and said that he didn't want to bail on his friends so he needed to go. At that point, I texted back and told him I had no idea what he was trying to say. He apologized and blamed rum. He texted me a bit later and said that he wanted to dive WITH me and drink WITH me and that neither would be possible with D around. I said that I could have fun with D and drink in the evenings but it was up to him. I told him I WAS going somewhere this weekend, I just needed to know if D and I would be with him. After a pause, he texted back, that he would call me later but the immediate point would be for me to plan on doing something else.
I was pissed. Partly at him and partly at myself. This, unfortunately, is not unusual. He has quite often cancelled plans at the last minute. And I was looking forward to spending time having fun. I was mad because once again, he has chosen to spend his preciously rare free time with his friends (opting to NOT bail on them) while simultaneously choosing not to spend that time with D or me and bailing on us. Fortunately, I hadn't really told D the plan so she won't be disappointed. Learned THAT MLC lesson long ago. But I was also mad with myself because I let myself get into this situation. My entire weekend plans were hinged on H. I shed a few tears, then collected myself and decided that my weekend would NOT be ruined. I would not settle for an "also ran" weekend just because H made the decisions he made.
So unlike anything I've ever done before, I booked D and myself a weekend trip to Vegas. H tried to call me and I didnt answer. Didn't feel like talking. He texted me and asked me to let him know if I didn't feel like talking so that he'd stop bugging me. I didn't respond. I waited until I had figured out all the specifics on my trip. Then texted him that I was sorry I missed his call. He said that he was just concerned. I then told him D and I would be going to Vegas. He seemed shocked (as shocked as you can seem via text). He was at an end-of-the-conference staff appreciation dinner, though, so he didn't text much.
I haven't told D. I just told her that we'd be taking a weekend trip. She seemed shocked. Didn't even tell her we're flying. It was a financial burden to book the trip even though I got a kick butt last minute deal. But I haven't had a VACATION in forever and I was looking forward to one and I will damn well have one. Now, it won't be as much fun with a 14 year old as it would've been with grown ups, but we'll still have fun. I love Vegas!
Good for you Alb!!! Turn away from him for now and into you and your D. From this perspective - you are spending TOO much energy focused on him and his actions. Enjoy EVERY moment with you and your daughter!
Journaling,
Just got back from a weekend in Vegas with D. We had a great time. On Friday before I left, H called me. He apologized for the previous day and said what he did was douchebaggy. After discussion, he realized that he had made some assumptions about me and D traveling down there (he assumed we would only be scuba diving) and therefore he didn't see a point for us to go since she couldn't do so. I explained that I had said that we would find something else to do. He saw the evidence in the texts and said that he guesses we need to do a better job of communicating. True.
Anyhow, I talked with him for about an hour and felt better afterwards. I told him again that we were going to Vegas and he was surprised again because he thought I was joking previously. But all in all, it was a good conversation and we got caught up on stuff.
That evening, I let D in on the news and she seemed freaked out by the spur of the moment trip. But she seemed pleased. We arrived very very late Friday night and went to bed. In the morning, we went and found some breakfast. During breakfast, I received a text from H. He had done his first dive of his trip and unfortunately had popped an eardrum. Unfortunately, this is not the first time he's done so. That pretty much ruled out any future dives for him. Then while getting out of the boat, the captains chair fell and hit him on the head. Then he locked his keys in the car. Then he sent me a picture of a giant blister on his foot. Needless to say, I felt bad that D and I were having a great time cruising the strip while getting these reports.
The following day, D and I visited Hoover Dam. I admit, I felt guilty doing so since H has never been there. But again, I realized that for too long, I have often "waited" for H so that we could do stuff together, only to never have that stuff happen. So I decided, we were close, I was taking D to see the dam. We had a great time and the weather was divine. All in all, it was a good trip. But H didn't sound like he had too good of a time. He just did a lot of bar hopping with his friends but was battling the pain of the ruptured ear drum so it wasn't as fun as it could've been. To his credit though, he seemed supportive about all the fun things we were doing and didn't seem to take it personally that he wasn't there. Perhaps he felt that way but just didn't act that way, I don't know. I guess I'll find out soon enough.
D and I got back home last night. This morning, we both had a bad morning. I gave my old 18 year old cat a new type of medication this morning. He took it fine and went into D's room to take his 20 hour nap. She came out and told me that it appeared he had a seizure. When I went into the room, he was having agonal breathing (something they do after death). I went and got my stethoscope and confirmed my fears. He had died. Unlike previous times a pet has died, D cried. She has typically held her emotions back so in a way, it was good to see. She had band practice this morning before school but we were too broken up to hustle to make that. She said her goodbyes and I took her to school. I texted H to have him call me when he awoke. The cat was originally my H's cat. I went with him to the pound to adopt him several years before we were even married. H called while driving D to school and I gave him the sad news. He was sad but focused on the positives. He reminded me that he had a good life. We could've lost him when he got into rat poison one time. And I removed a very malignant tumor from him that SHOULD have spread but didn't, many many years ago. And he's right. He had a good life. I don't BLAME the medication, even though it probably caused this. Side effects can happen and he may have had a silent metabolic illness that I hadn't detected recently. H talked to D and they plan on putting together a montage of cat photos along with music. I like the idea. Celebrate his life.
So life is slowly getting back to normal (kind of). I will get back to work at the end of this week. H is leaving the FL Keys today and will be back this evening. He made it sound like he was coming here, especially given the fact that we need to bury our cat. I don't know what the future holds now that the conference is over and he has claimed to be moving back for good. When I think about me going to work and coming home and having H here, I admit, it seems weird now. It's strange how you can get used to something you never wanted. H still has a lot of work to do and the x-OW issue is still something I need to deal with. In fact, when H posted on FB about losing our cat, the first person to comment was x-OW. Kind of NOT the person I want to see sympathy from. As always, I'll continue to take this one day at a time.
I wish wish wish I could have met you in Vegas with my oldest D - your D and mine would have had fun together. I love Vegas!
I am glad that you went to the Dam - it is quite a sight and very educational. Boating and diving in the lake is also incredible (boating I have done, diving only heard about).
Sounds like H got a little KARMA on his trip in the Keys...
I am so sorry about your cat
the loss of a beloved pet is devestating. Especially one you have had for 18 years!!!!! Again, I am sorry.
I have to say that the paragraph about the litany of problems your H was having while you were having a good time made me laugh. I noted too that you said you did things now that you wanted to do and waited for H to do in the past: good for you! I have been putting a lot of focus lately on "what things did I want in past years that H had no interest in" and it has given me things to look forward to and work more hours to be able to afford. I think that's all to the good for any of us.
It would have been totally rockin' to have you there too. Perhaps some other time.
I don't consider H's issues karma. I don't like to look at things that way. He's still in MLC, had an awful 2 weeks, and didn't even get to enjoy diving like he'd hoped. I find it terribly disappointing. I was upset with the way the situation ended up (not getting invited), but I genuinely wanted him to have a good time and I genuinely was upset to hear about his issues.
Thanks for your thoughts about my cat. This day kind of stinks
Journaling,
H drove back from his trip with the guys last night. He texted me periodically throughout the day. He arrived at a nearby town about 1 1/2 away where he had to drop his friends off since they were flying out from there. Because of bad weather, he opted to have dinner with them. At about 930pm, he texted me to tell me that he'd just stay there the night due to the weather. The weather WAS bad at times. Really bad. But it still annoyed me since it wasn't that bad anymore and seemed like an excuse. Then about 30 minutes later, he called me and told me that he'd changed his plans. His friends were starting up another night of drinking and he just didn't want to do that again. He said "since I'll be getting home really late I'll just crash at my place". I said OK. But it pissed me off. Not because he needs his time away. Not because he changed his plans of originally coming here like originally stated. But because he was not honest about why he was doing so. He gives me the ridiculous excuse of doing it because it'll be late. Once again though, I was thankful that I hadn't told D he would be coming to the house. So she wasn't disappointed in any way.
This morning, he asked me to lunch. I decided to say yes. I had a pole dance class and then did some errands and laundry. He showed up unannounced to the house around 1130. I wasn't remotely ready. The meeting was very subdued and he just gave me a hug. His "wall" is still up. I told him "you're quite early". He responded by saying that he knew that if he didn't show up early enough, I'd just eat without him. I found that kind of funny since it's true. I've stopped waiting around for him because he tends to be late/cancels. So I set a cut-off time (for myself) and if he doesn't show up, I DO just go ahead and eat. I don't even call or text him to find out what happened. Part of my new independence. So I found it funny that that hasn't gone unnoticed.
Anyhow, as I zoomed around getting ready it struck me as odd that I found his presence to be intrusive. I should be glad he was here and yet I wasn't. But I think some of that is because he's NOT really here. He's got that damn wall up and I'm just getting bits and pieces of him.
Lunch was OK but conversation didn't flow that well. I wasn't feeling to up to talking. Especially since as I was getting my shoes on, he asked me if I had ever gotten my order of my new boots. That question stung. I paused and I think chuckled softly in an annoyed way and just said "yeah". He asked "and?". I responded, "I wore them at the conference". He seemed surprised but tried to say he didn't know because I have so many sexy boots (not true). So clearly, he wasn't paying any attention to me.
During lunch, we briefly discussed his brother and that he might be moving because of a woman he met recently. I remarked that it seemed odd that he would move to follow her having only known her a short time. I also remarked that she must not have felt as strongly or else wouldn't have moved. At that point, H likened it to me moving several states away for an internship. I responded sharply that it was not the same at all since that decision was made as a family (he said yes at the time although I found out much later he really didn't want to move). He said he knew and he was joking. I didn't find it funny. Clearly, there is still a lot to be addressed.
After lunch he went back to his place to work. He stated plans to come back over to see D and get the run down on our Vegas vacation. We will also be going out to dinner. I have no idea what his plans are after that. At this point, I have no expectations. I would be truly shocked if he chose to spend the night.
Eric once said that from his observation, he felt that piecing was much harder than dealing with the bomb and post-bomb issues. I think he's absolutely right. I need to focus on me, but at the same time, I have a H who states he wants to be part of my life again. So in order to live my life with H, I have to take him into consideration. But he's totally unreliable right now. So it's very very difficult. One day at at time.....