All, I’ve been asked to start a new thread….
Here are the links to all of my old threads….for those who are interested in seeing anger, whining, pain, love, pretty much all of the sh!t that we the LBS’s go through.
6th Thread 5th Thread 4th Thread 3rd Thread 2nd Thread 1st Thread Okay – quick update….
Tomorrow W, the two L’s and I will sit down for our second pre-trial meeting. The first one according to my L went well and it is believed that this will be the last meeting before they just schedule a final hearing, which probably will not take place until the new year.
My goal at tomorrow’s meeting is to:
1) Get on paper and signed with blood her acceptance of the custody arrangement.
2) Try not to lose my shirt in alimony payments
3) Secure acceptance to move out
4) Get a better sense of exactly what all of this sh!t means for me
So those are the legal goals….I also would like to….
1) Laying out exactly how I will secure housing and furnish it
2) Depending on the debt/financial profile/outcome figure out a true budget. I have a few scenarios but until I can get a final number it is very hard to plan
3) Get back to cooking every weekend. I am a bit Food network fan and love to cook.
4) Get my Puerto Rican as* back to the gym with some frequency
5) Finish reading two books I have and then pick up a few more.
6) Join a local basket ball league
7) Get my next tattoo (that will be my second guys and I only have plans for one more – I was thinking of lips on my butt cheeks but decided against it – LOL)
As for my W…she continues to be pleasant and for some reason I get the sense that she wants to be “friends”. I’m actually not sure that friends would be my description of our R going forward BUT hey ya never know. What I do know is this….I am different – she is different – where that leaves us post D – your guess is as good as mine.
I hope everyone had a good weekend.
Eric
Eric,
You sound at peace. And that's a great place to be.
Strength and honor, my friend.
Thanks Drew - I'm not sure if "at peace" would describe how I feel right now BUT it's probably close.
Thanks for stopping by man!
Update - I was just notified that the tomorrow's four way meeting has been pushed back to 11/10. I still have my meeting wtih my L tomorrow so I hope to have some of my questions answered.
Eric
You sound strong Eric. I know it's hard but WTG.
Eric -
Very proud of you and happy that you are finding your center!
IB
E
If you were going to use a Star Wars theme you really stumped me!
I thought you'd roll two braids up in the side of your head, wear a white toga and go
"HELP ME OBIWAN KENOBI YOU"RE MY ONLY HOPE!"
PS. Make sure your shave real close if you try this one.
Very proud of you and happy that you are finding your center!
How many licks does it take to get to your tootstie roll center?
Sorry ...
I just missed you this weekend buddy.
I missed you too sir.
We even had an extra tutu lying around.
When's the next party and where? I want in.
Eric, you will be ok. Just keep walkin' the path.
Leave it in His hands.
And live your life with honor, strength and dignity.
All
Sorry i have to just write.....
We just told my little girl that mommy and daddy will be divorced.
The pain that I feel right now cannot be measured. It feels harder than the bomb. It sucks. It fuc*ing sucks. My D, Victoria took it well but has a lot of questions. I suggested to my W that we wait until we speak to a therapist before speaking to our D. She disagreed, since my D has been asking a lot of questions..
D to me - "daddy when are you going to sleep with mommy again - you said you were taking a break but it has been a long time"
D to me - "daddy do you still love mommy"
D to me - "daddy i want things back the way they used to be"
D to me - "daddy how come mommy doesn't make you breakfast like she does for me and the boys"
These are just some of the questions that my D has asked over the past few weeks. Each one is like a small tear in my heart. Though I have to say that my little girl is as strong as they come.
When we spoke to her I tried to be as positive as I could have. My W...was all grins. Like a none of this even phased her. Right now, I just can't stand the sight of her. Her little grins - I am so angry and sad right now. The indifference is amazing. I no longer know this woman. She is a completely different person.
After we spoke to our daughter, she gave me and her mother a hug. She held me very very tight. It took everything I had in me to hold back my tears...and so now I sit here...alone in the family room (aka my bed room)....tears...I hurt...BUT i will be okay cause I know that Toria will be. She is a strong cookie. She is like me!
Toria had some questions...
Toria - "daddy are you leaving"?
Me- "yes honey, daddy will be moving soon but the cool thing is that YOU will have two bed rooms. One with me and one with your mother"
Toria - "when are you leaving"
Me - "I am not sure yet honey - but just remember we both love you very much"
Toria - "will oreo (our dog) come to your house daddy"?
Me - "it will be our house honey and yes oreo will come too"
Toria - "so when we are with you daddy - mommy will be alone" (funny this is when W responded very quickly..."yes mommy will be alone" - I swear I wanted to respond...but I didn't)
Me - "yes honey mommy will be alone"
Toria - "will you be alone daddy?"
ME - "yes honey daddy will be alone but I will be okay - as long as you are okay - I will be okay"
She then said she needed to think about more questions....
I walked downstairs and into the family room. Toria who was with her mom came into the family room and said she had more questions for me.
Toria - "daddy....how will you be able to afford two houses" and "daddy your not gonna have enough food". These questions ripped a hole in my heart...here is my little girl, her life will change and she asked about me. Goes to show me how big her heart is.
Me - "honey you don't worry about daddy - I will be fine - we will be fine". "It will be different but different is not wrong - it's just different - but me and your mother love you very much".
Toria - "why are you and mommy getting divorced"
Me - "well honey, let me answer your questions with a questions....would you prefer that mommy and daddy stay married but be sad or would you prefer that mommy and daddy get divorced but be happy" - ya know I was not prepared for this question and since W decided to have the conversation I was so tempted to say go ask your mom but I felt i needed to try and answer all of her questions.
Toria - "but daddy why don't you stay living here"?
Me - "toria, when people get divorced they usually do not live together. Some do but really most people do not".
Toria - "daddy can you stay a little longer"
Me - "I don't know honey...but I will love you and so does your mom and you will spend the same amount of time with each of us".
Fu*k...typing this hurts....listening to my D ask the questions...hurt....all of this hurt...
The pain, the fuc*ing smirk on my W face...it is what i will remember. I will also remember that my daughter is strong, I will also remember that I am a survivor, I will also remember that I can CHOOSE to be the best parent that I can be. I choose to be the best man I can be - for me - for my kids. My W - fu*k her!
I just can't write anymore....
(((Eric)))
That's all I can say. It sucks.
(((Eric)))
(((Eric)))
It is so hard to see our kids hurt.
I think you handled the questions you D asked very well.
Eric,
All I can say is.....
I understand.
This too shall pass my friend, this too shall pass.
~C
It sounds like you handled the whole situation from a healthy prospective. And it's good you're able to feel the hurt and understand where it's coming from. Just understanding where, how is huge! You're D and you will come out on top, just remember that!
Easy buddy....
I can't really relate cause I don't have kids.
But your heart is bigger than Texas
Don't let the anger in there.
That ain't you man.
Faith
Hope
Love
Abide these three.
But the greatest of these
is LOVE.
Eric,
I know it is tough. I have seen the little smirk you speak of.
It is true. They are not the same person we knew. Since I have
three boys, I get a lot of these same type of questions from
my boys. Really, know that you are not alone. As the days
continue on, it is harder and harder to even look at my W
anymore. The smirky grins, the callousness, just feeds the anger
inside. We are being tested my friend. I know you have the
strength for this. I truly believe that they will reap what
they sow. But know that there are people circling the wagons
for you. We get to be the ones that stand and stand tall.
No one should have to go through this. Especially the kids.
Thank God they have the dad that you show that you are.
Eric, this all breaks my heart, and I don't have kids, and I honestly never could relate to those people who did have kids until I started to read/post on these forums, but now I get it. This is so tough for all of us, but for those with kids, you are facing a more difficult struggle. I want to tell you that I have felt so much empowerment through things you have said to me about my situation, and I know you couldn't say those things if you were not a very strong and centered person yourself. I wish only the best for you; I know you're an amazing person and a wonderful father; and I pray that you find peace and love in your situation.
Eric,
Don't really know what to say except I am so sorry for all that you are going through. My kids are all grown, it's the little ones that ask questions, and their parents have to handle them. I know my granddaughter cried when told Papa wouldn't be living here anymore. Broke my heart for her. The older grands stay quiet, but you can see it in their eyes.
Your daughter sounds very intelligent, very thoughtful, and very sensitive. You sound as if you are putting the feelings of your children ahead of everything else, especially yours. Know that your children will always remember that. Who their Dad is, and how he has cared for them.
As Antonia says, you seem to be a wonderful father, and you will find peace. ((HUGS))
E,
I'm not going to repeat all the stuff above, you are strong and you know you are.
It doesn't change the fact that this sucks.
Period.
You are doing the best you can with a crappy situation, I know how long I tried to avoid having to talk to my kids.
I'm not going to fill you full of plaitudes like "they'll do ok if you do ok" ... blah, blah, blah.
I will remind you of this:
This sucks for as long as you let it. It can suck for a day, or a week, or a month, or a year, or a lifetime. Your choice. Only yours.
When you are ready, live your words. You can choose to see the silver linings and you can choose to show them to your children. Think about what your silver linings are ... think about how much you do still have ... think about everything you have to be grateful for.
New beginnings E ...
(((hugs)))
T
Eric
I haven't ever posted to you but I do read your posts and know that you give of yourself tremendously. I just love how thoughtful your daughter is. The fact that she asked how you would afford two houses and whether you will have enough to eat just tore at my heart.
As you know, you are STILL blessed in so many ways. Nothing gets in the way of that.
Btw, that smirk? I think they hand it out with the MLC do-it- yourself kit. You do know that they have their own how-to guide, right?
Btw, that smirk? I think they hand it out with the MLC do-it- yourself kit. You do know that they have their own how-to guide, right?
Hey E,
I saw the damn smirk the other night myself...
Just wanted to wipe it right off his face...
I didn't. Not that it matters, cuz I could have at this point...
It goes hand in hand with the spaced out look and lack of memory they get when they are trying to contact the mother ship...
You are dealing with batchit crazy here and you know it.
Separate the two things E, your M and your kids.
Yes one affects the other but they are two separate things...
Just because techinally a kid thing is what broke my back, doesn't mean it should have been. It was simply the final straw ontop of a mountain of straws in my life, you know that.
Truth is, I am a hard head and I think for me, it took that straw for me to decide to put myself first for a change. And even after the anger over that particular incident, it took me a while, quite a while, to make my choice, to allow my anger over that to dissappate and for me to decide what I needed to decide the right way. Not driven by any anger or frustration.
Give yourself that time...
You will appreciate it in the end...
Eric ~
I don't think I have posted to you here before, just in the alt. Beautiful and sad that our little ones feel the need to protect us...
I had a bad day last week and little man was on the phone with his Dad, he hung up and told me, "Daddy said to tell you he loves you." Broke my heart to think he thought all would be well with that sentence. I know darn well H didn't say that, but it was sweet on sons' part.
You and your family are in my prayers my friend.
(((Hugs)))
Eric, you know what you have to do. And only you can do it.
Feel the anger. Get it out. Then let it go. For you.
Because if you dont, it weighs you down and stops you from moving foward.
Your children are watching you very closely now. Show them how to handle what happens in life with strength and honor.
You set the tone for them.
So, you now have an opportunity here. To be the man you have aspired to be.
You got this, my friend.
Thank you everyone for your responses. I am really touched by the response I received.
Missher - thanks for last night. Thanks for being an ear. Your a class act! AND you were spot on with your comments to me.
Okay - the anger is out.
Wow, was I pissed last night. You guys can ask Brook...she was on the receiving end of several of my "get it out text" last night. Thank you B.
Serenity / Kara - thank you ladies I am grateful for your words.
So after calming down I spent most of the day today pretty damn calm. I went to a few car dealerships (saw a used Nissan Armada that I fell in love with) and also had an appt with my L.
While I was walking around the dealerships, a few things came to my mind...
1) Yesterday I was a whiny bi*ch! I knew the convo with my D was coming yet I allowed it to control my emotions. I was wrong - human - yes, but I could have done better and will do better going forward. The old Eric came out last night, which tells me I still have some pieces of me that I need to kill. The big one is the "why me" or "victim" mentality. It is a work in progress.
2) My kids and I will be fine. Things will be different yes, but different is not bad. It's just different.
3) As much as the smirk on my W's face pissed me off and as much as the pain and confusion that I know my daughter feels right now hurts and pissed me off - I actually think that BOTH of us (yes that would include my W) did the best we could have. These type of conversations are never easy.
4) I also realized that as much as I tell everyone to "let go" of the anger that I still have some pent up anger myself. Normal yes - but once again I can do better.
5) My big revelation.....AND some would say I am crazy BUT honestly I don't give a sh!t what others say....I have more to give in this process! Yep, I ain't "done" yet! Nope - I still owe it to ME and to my W to allow this process to continue. I owe it to ME to not throw in the towel! I can give a little more, I can be a little more patient, I can go a little bit longer and try and outlast her MLC!
6) I will not allow my anger to drive when I am done. Nope - I will know in my heart when I am truly done. When and IF that day comes...nothing will change my mind. Nothing!
7) My W deserves better from me. Yep, she does. If I am honest with myself I have not done all that I can do. I have not given her the time that she needs.
8) My feelings for my wife are different now. That much I know. Where that takes me, I have not the foggiest clue. BUT I know, that I have more to give.
9) A shift has taken place in me, one that quite honestly scares me. I am realizing more and more about myself. Yesterday I realized so many things, today I realized more. So although yesterday evening was tough, today was very interesting. I am a strong SOB. I am a good dad. AND I can really "feel" it. I am beginning to be amazed at my strength and capacity to love in the face of all of this. Is it hard? Fuc* yeah, but damn I am still here. I am still in the house - almost 14 months post bomb. Is this the idea, probably not BUT it could be worse. It could be that I do not have the opportunity to see my kids on a daily basis. It could be a lot worse. As I think about how bad it COULD be I realize that my thought pattern has shifted. Shifted from a negative view to a more positive view. So today, i really realized just how much i have changed. Just how different I am. Maybe this is what growth feels like - I have no idea. This is all new to me. BUT I am really beginning to like Eric.
Jack - I'm gonna call you out and I know you hate it but I'm gonna do it anyway (Mach, Cat what I am about to say applies to both of you too)...your advice has meant the world to me. Ya know Jack, I looked at my thread today and noticed you did not respond - and I knew why? I knew that you knew that this is something I must do - you know that this is something I must figure out. You are allowing me to learn about myself and not hold my hand. As Mach would say...you have taught me to fish and now you are letting me out into the ocean to go catch mine. Thank Jack - for not responding dude - cause I learned a lot about me today. A lot.
B, I can sense that my children are watching me. I actually sense the my W is too. They do not understand, they are used to something different. Why is daddy not pissed off? Why is daddy still nice to mommy? Daddy is different from a year ago? I can sense it. I can also "feel" my W eyes on me. Watching every interaction. What does this mean to me? Honestly, it does give me a little hope; however, I try and quickly put it out of my mind. I must remain steadfast in what i need to do, which is to continue to become the man I want to be - not for her, that ship sailed a long time ago. No, i live for me and my kids.
Damn - I know I'll be okay.
Finally, today my W and I took our D to a Halloween party. She seemed even more "like the old W". I know that I am dealing with someone in a crisis so I am not fooling myself but for a day at least it was nice to see the old "normal" W.
W and I spoke about the divorce. She has much that she needs to think about and I can tell this is so overwhelming for her. I can see that she is concerned and I can also see that she is steadfast in her desire to d me - yet I do sense just a tad bit of confusion. Not much just a little bit...BUT before I get beside myself...i remember...i remember just how long this process takes. I remember that I too have a ways to go and this is my focus.
Good night everyone and once again thank you for your responses.
God Bless,
Eric
I still owe it to ME and to my W to allow this process to continue. I owe it to ME to not throw in the towel! I can give a little more, I can be a little more patient, I can go a little bit longer and try and outlast her MLC!
I've been thinking this about you for a while.
I am glad you are coming around to my way of thinking.
Lance,
I always have agree (okay not always...remember when I first arrived - lol) that the only way to do this is to outlast an MLC. What I do not always agree with is the "timeline" or scientific type of approach. I just think that we should always remained focused on us, the LBS. That's all. Understand big bro?
I'm with you, Eric. I never approached it from that angle either.
I just slowly found myself, my strengths. I began to realize the things I wanted to change. And I did.
I acknowledged that I loved my h enough to let him go. I got out of his way and let him walk his own journey. And I walked mine.
I let the anger go. I accepted what is. I accepted that whatever the future brings, is what is supposed to happen.
And then I felt at peace. And you will, too. Not just for a little while, but each and everyday.
That is my wish for you. Peace in every day. You deserve it.
DB101 - Do what works! :):)
Eric!
You have doubts and fears! I'm so proud of you. You'd never know it from your posts. LOL Seriously, I've noticed that a lot of us who started posting about the same time here are going through some sort of carthesis. I'm hoping I'm a cocoon turning into a butterfly, that sort of thing.
You are handling things wonderfully, from my POV. You've been strong and positive for your children, and your W. It's that final little Riiiiiip in the fabric of our lives that is the hardest, I think. That complete and total drop.
We have a ways to go, I suppose. Both personally and in regard to our deceased marriages. Glad we all have each other to get through it.
Have a great day!
What I do not always agree with is the "timeline" or scientific type of approach.
Eric I did want to respond to this a little more and hope I can find the right words to write.
You and I agree here more than you may think.
There are NO TIMELINES - but their is a script.
You read the same thing here almost everyday.
It plays out over and over.
I beleive the overall framework is laid out in the
6 stages of MLC. - Forget the times though, I agree they should have been left out.
As far as science, it can give us NO cure.
Only an understanding of the forces of nature that are at work here.
The science is VERY difficult to understand because it is backwards, upside down, inside out.
No real scientist could begin to understand what makes no sense.
So I do understand your POV.
We can
not have expectations.
But we can have HOPE.
So whatever you do please keep that hope alive!
I've noticed that a lot of us who started posting about the same time here are going through some sort of carthesis. I'm hoping I'm a cocoon turning into a butterfly, that sort of thing.
A beautiful buttefly Pun.
It will happen if you let it.
Eric buddy you are, as always, getting to the right answers.
That is that faith in you. Inside you, of the man you have become.
Eric you took a break and now you are back.
Good to see you again.
Eric,
I want to thank you for posting your daughter's questions and the answers which seemed almost benevolent in the face of the cruelty of MLC.
I fear this ground will soon be walked by me as my D7 has already asked a few of them. But the path you've laid out is inspirational even as I was getting pi$$ed off while reading. "Go ask your sl*t of a mother" often flashes into my mind, but we both know that outburst is only satisfying until it passes the lips.
You have unbelievably firm footing for the next phase of your life. I'm 14 months in and there's no D talk yet, W still cake-eating. But the impact on the kids remains the same.
Good to know you are, in fact, human. And that others need to be reeled in from the LBS cycle.
Hi Eric,
Ive been reading these boards for over 2 years now and have just started posting in Newcomers under Not so new to Newcomers.
I have read alot of the postings you have given others and i think you have a very compassionate soul and gift to these boards. I have read some of your sitch but just found the latest going back to the beginning.
Im really looking forward to reading about you.
If by chance you have an opportunity to read the few entries of mine and reply, I would greatly appreciate your insite. Thanks for your consideration
Hi Eric - I have been catching up on everyone's posts. Good lord if you don't go on the site for a while, you really miss out on a lot of chit that friends are going through.
You know what I find most amazing...How many text messages, posts and phone calls have you given me. And not once did I know about this conversation with Toria. I am sorry. You are so so strong, and I have just sat back and listened to your advice and all this time didn't realize you were going though a tough time. I realize now that this conversation with W and D took place at the end of Oct. and I am sure you are doing okay now, but that conversation will stay with you forever. Just as Toria won't ever forget it either.
You stated that your D is strong like you - thank God. If she has even a little bit of your strength, she will be set for life.
Keep me posted my friend!
Eric - I hope you are OK, I know that you had a though day yesterday. I just wanted to thank you for giving so much of yourself to everyone here on the boards while dealing with your own very though situation. You are a very loving, compassionate man and also a very strong man. I have no doubt that you will navigate through this and come out even stronger.
Thinking of you
(((hugs)))
Eric,
Just catching up buddy. Bad weekend, huh? I know the feeling. In fact, We All Do. As Mila says, you always give so much of yourself to the people on these Boards, but you can't avoid your own sorrow that way, you know. So, I know you are strong, I know you are a great Dad and a good friend. Swap seats and let some of the US you've been here for be there for you. Just for alittle while, while you need it.
((hugs)) Eric, have a great day.
Hey Eric,
I can go get you some of CW's "wood" or one of my "(((((HUGS)))))" but I am guessing that you don't wnat either one.
So listen to "ERIC" he gives good advice.
What do YOU want?
how are things today? When Iread you are Puerto Rican, I smiled. It is my new favorite place on Earth after being ther2 twice this year.
All,
Happy Turkey day everyone!
I am off to have, what I believe to be the final meeting with the lawyers to try and finalize the terms of my divorce.
I ask that all of you pray for me and my W. I am a little nervous, which is understandable but I also feel a great sense of peace right now.
Interesting, today I spoke to my MIL, who remains faithful that the R between my W and I will eventually come full circle and that we will reconcile. I explained to her that I have totally let my W go. That I am living my life for me and that I wish that my W find the happiness in her life that she is desperately searching for. My MIL understood. She spoke to my W yesterday to ask if my W would be upset that she invite me over for Turkey day. Apparently, my W is quite upset. To quote my MIL…”she is really angry Eric, I have never seen her this angry. It almost like if she could strangle you she would”. I explained to my MIL, that I have not seen this anger and that IMO, the anger she feels is a result of not looking inside herself.
So after I hung up, I thought….Anger? WTF, I have not seen any of it. Isn’t she happy with OM? I mean really, I have stayed out of her way. It make no sense. I am giving her what she wants. Thank God that before I spent too much time dwelling on the convo I was able to snapped my as* back to reality. I realize now more than ever that she is still in a crisis. A crisis that nothing I do can fix. She is still searching for answers the questions she has. OM probably cannot answer them – I guess. No one can. It is sad. She has a long way to go. She is still hurt and cannot get over her own anger. 15 months of doing her best to break me and she still feels anger. WOW. The anger she feels towards herself continues to be projected at me. The only thing I can do is to get out of her way. I feel for her. Maybe one day she will see me in a different light. I hope for my children’s sake she will. Maybe one day she will understand….maybe she will realize that at the end of the day….I truly love her.
As I sit here typing this….I want to say….thank you to my W. Thank you. I refuse to sit here and wallow in pity, pain and sorrow. The women I married would not have wanted me to. Thank you Wifey. Thank you.
Gvien my MIL comments about my W anger. I ask that everyone pray for my W. I hope that she finally gets to a place where she realizes who she really is. I pray that she let go of the anger and begin to live her life the way she really wants to. Not the way that others will tell her to live it. I pray that she find happiness in her life. I pray that she realizes that BOTH of us played a role in this. I pray that she realize the person that she has become. I pray for the family.
So off I go to the lawyers probably another couple of grand given to them instead of my kids, instead of us. Wish me luck guys.
I also want to take a moment to thank everyone and these boards. Take a moment to reflect on where I am and who I have become.
God Bless,
Eric
Eric, I'll pray for you and your wife. I am very happy that you are healing and past the anger. If she is still there, that's her issue to deal with, and like you said, you can't fix this for her, you can only fix you. You are really inspiring to a lot of us and it's great to see you be able to come to a point where you are asking for us to consider her and help her too.
Good luck with the final divorce prep. I think when that part is all said and done, there will be some feeling of a weight lifted for you.
I thought I'd be dreading that final divorce date but to be honest, I'm really not, because I've accepted that it's going to happen and I'm not going to let it make me lose my progress.
Eric - Happy Thanksgiving to you too....I wish your wife and all our MLC's all the best in their search for happiness...I really do....I feel their pain and their struggles, masked in anger so thick that they don't see that their happiness was right there beside them if they were willing to put some work into it...but they are unwilling or incapable to understand that right now....
....hope all goes well at the lawyers today...keep up your strength
You are an inspiration Eric...
(((hugs)))
Eric - I hope all goes well for you today! I know it won't be easy, but you are in a good place - and can handle it.
I also wish you the best for turkey day - wherever you are to celebrate what we are all truly thankful for! (and FTR - you are on my list
)
Eric,
Good luck my friend and God be with you.
It is great that you still recognize that your wife is still in
crisis.
I am not far from the same final path that you are on now.
When I see your sitch it is so close to mine that I enjoy reading
every part of it. (Inlaws included)
Yup, they still have anger after all of this time. How long are
they going to wallow in that? Until they decide they are not going to wallow, that's how long.
Gee, you and I have to be thankful this Thanksgiving that we know that they are not done. How many other H's out there are
clueless that their W is even in crisis.
Live my life all angry and bitter, yup not for YOU sir.
That is what to be thankful for your blessings is all about.
I am sure that when you are saying grace before that turkey
meal this year that you will truly, I MEAN truly be thankful
for what GOD has shown you.
WS
E,
I'm not wishing you luck.
You don't need it sweetie. You are making your own life, living by your own choices, walking forward with your head held high.
That doesn't take luck.
It has taken a lot of work on your part, and will take tons more. But you know this.
The anger? We don't see it because they hide it and honestly, don't even acknowledge it to themselves. They do a very good job of looking happy. Remembering they are in crisis can be very hard to do. As you know, I've been dealing with the same kinds of issues. Go figure
I pray that my H “wakes up”, but not for me, not even for the kids. I hope it happens some day for HIM. Because I know the peace that I feel in my heart now that I have clarity of self. I’m a work in progress, don’t get me wrong, but now that I know how good this feels, I want it for everyone. Including my H. Including your W.
You have “clarity of self” (huge amounts of it, and you continue to work towards more) ... and so today I pray you get at least some of the “clarity of situation” you seek. I know how much stress this causes you. Today I pray you get some peace.
And ... because no one knows how these things will go, I also pray you find continued strength to deal with any lack of peace or clarity. That you continue to find the strength to be the man and father that you have become.
I am honored to know you. For real.
(((great big squeezie hugs E)))
You got this.
~ T
Hi Eric
I'll be praying for your wifey and family
You have been through so much already it seems, I dont think anything can knock you down...:) I can see you have so much love in you to give, if wifey is not lucky enough to be on the receiving end of that some day, I know for sure some other lady will be thanking the heavens that she found you
Ah .....snap
You didn't wear your Tutu did you ?
Take some time to "digest" this afterward.....
Time for you.....
To really feel what it means
Praying for you and your family Eric. Hope you truly have a Happy Thanksgiving
Happy Thanksgiving, Eric. And thank you for your post on my Board. I left you a return msg. there.
My thoughts on the anger. I think the anger is that they feel anyone who isn't "with" them is "against" them. It's a common enough human emotion, and we're all very jealous of our parents. I know my D24 didn't like that I invited her H to our Halloween Party. I told her she was divorcing him, not me.
Hope everything went good for you today. My "dead-marriage walking" should be coming up pretty soon, as well.
My sweet friend, thank you for checking in on me. It means more than you know.
Eric, I hope that it was tolerable for you today. I hope that even though I know how difficult it was, that you feel a level of peace. I hope that you remembered the person you have become. But most of all, I hope you realized that all your friends were praying for you and that you felt it.
I pray for all the MLCers, that they find their way, their happiness, their path. But really and truly I pray for those of us who loved them enough to let them go.
You are a special man. You have found the person you were meant to be.
Whatever happens in the future, no one can change that, no one can take that away.
So, I am sure you have many feelings about today. Sort them out, feel them.
Then, when you are ready, continue your journey.
Oh Eric -
You should be very proud of your goodness that continues to present itself in the most difficult moments!
Good things are ahead for you - I truly believe this!
I am impressed by the respect your MIL continues to demonstrate to you!
Eric - just checking in....hope all went OK today
(((hugs)))
Just stopping by to say HI to everyone.
"HI EVERYONE"!
Eric!!! Where you been hiding out? Moved on, left your old buds behind . . . We know.
Naw, Christmas is a bit of a . . .What?
Saw your latest post on FB though.
Nice to hear from you.
Hi Eric - miss you here....but life goes on...enjoy
Merry Xmas
Hey there Eric,
Hi backatcha! Good to hear from you.
Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Don't want ya to think I'm ignoring ya
Merry Christmas to you those kiddos E!
Peace
T
To all my friends
I would like to wish you all a merry christmas.
Let us all take this time to be thankful for everything that we do have in our lives.
I will coming back to post soon. I have quite a few things that I am dealing with and ask for everyones prayers.
May God Bless you all
Eric
hope to hear about you soon.
Merry Christmas, Eric!!!!
Cheers
~C
Hope you had a good Christmas Eric! Been thinking about you and hope that your challenges are managable...
Yes Eric, thinking about you, just want you to know that we hope things are ok with you :-)
To all my DB friends,
I wish you all the best in this upcoming New Year. 2011 CAN be a year of transformation, a year of growth for ALL of us. All it takes is one thing…..
Choose!
We can choose to be happy, we can choose to say f it, we can choose to face every obsticale in our life, we can choose to stand up and say NO MORE, we can choose to say I WILL NOT FEEL defeated, we choose to look at our sitch’s and say…..I can do this, I will surive!
My hope and prayer for all of you is that YOU make the right CHOICE for YOU and YOUR families.
Now before some of you get ready to party….I respectfully that you stop for a second and…..
Give thanks for what you DO have in your life.
Some of you may be going through hard times, you may feel helpless, you may feel hopeless. DON’T!
Let go of any guilt. Please it does you no good. Everyone make mistakes...learn from them and do better. Period.
I mean really, we are all alive…we are all surviving. If we really stop for a second and think….life really is what we make of it. So please, make of it the best of YOUR life that you can.
To all of the men on these boards, especially those with children – to YOU I say this…..
Your children are looking to YOU to see how you react through all of this. Remember this – YOU are their role model. They will need strong men in their life as an example of how a man reacts to adversity. Please I implore you…..be this example for them. Show them how a man lives his life!
As for your spouses, let them go, give them over to a higher power and go live your life as the men that YOU want to be. Live a life of honor, respect, kindness, compassion, tenderness, strength, hope, faith, openness and most of all LOVE. A love for life, a love for your children and a LOVE of yourself!
As for me, some of you have wondered what is going on in my life. We’ll here is a quick update.
My D continues to move forward and at this point it is what I want.
My STBXW no longer wants the house, so I am working to try and find a way to keep it. I think it is important to maintain some level of normalcy for the kids, especially my D. If I cannot keep the house..well then, such is life.
The attny are supposed to be working up the separation agreement and I eagerly await the draft so that I can plan accordingly.
I have moved back into the master bedroom. My days sleeping on a sofa and/or the family room floor are OVER.
Christmas day was well let’s say interesting. My MIL and my STBXW went at it at the house. It has become very clear to me how lost my W is. Her resent me towards me is so obvious. Now when I look at her I feel nothing but remorse, nothing but sorrow. For the first time the reality of just how much this is about her has hit me. Nothing I do can help her. This truly is what she wants for her life. I will respect it.
My hope and prayer for her is that she find whatever it is that she is looking for. May she find the happiness that she seeks, while at the same time…leaving me the f*ck alone.
The hardest thing in this process is the impact to my children. They are suffering –silently – but suffering. For a long time I tried to avoid the pain for them (I come to realize that this is what I was standing for) – I know understand that I can only do the best I can to minimize the pain for them.
So I move forward in my life. I continue to work on my own happiness and that of my children. Divorce does not mean dead. I can trust again, I can love again, I can live again!
I am looking at the challenges ahead of me and sometimes they seem a little overwhelming and then I stop for a second and realize…….
I’m still alive!
I am still one kick ass DAD!
I will survive this – I have been through worse.
AND more importantly…..
Marriage, divorce, my wife, my kids…..
None of this defines ME…
The only thing that can hold me back is….
ME
God Bless all of you and may you have a wonderful New Year!
Eric
Great post Eric! Thank you.
May the New Year bring us all peace.
I second Seeking's response. Great post, and much food for thought. You said the word that seems so elusive to many of us here . . .CHOOSE. Choose for yourself, not anyone else.
Leave me? He's done that. Divorce me? Maybe. Defeat me? NEVER. (insert Tarzan yell)
Eric - Good to have you back.....You are in a good place, what a great post....You are a survivor Eric....thanks for being an inspiration to all of us.
Looks like you have moved on and no longer standing for your M....wish you all the happiness in the world, you deserve it my friend
Eric, good luck to you in 2011....Like Mila said, you are an inspiration to all of us
Thank you for all the advice you offer to me
My sweet friend, look at you, all growed up - LOL!
That is what this journey is all about - realizing that we can only control ourselves and that we get to decide the live we are going to have.
I wish that you live the kind of life that brings you joy and contentment.
I hope that your burdens are not too heavy and that the people in your life realize just how lucky they are to know you.
Most of all, I wish that at the end of the day, you feel peace and that at the beginning you feel loved.
Always remember where you came from. NY man, we kick as@ and take names later. - LOL!
Happy New Year!
B,
As peaceful as my post sounded and trust me everything I posted was truth in terms of what I have chosen in my life. The reality is that I am pretty angry and frustrated these past few weeks. The legal process is taking forever and as such she and I remain in the same home. I am emotionally drained and really need a break from all of this. The lies continue, her attempts to control everything continue, the button pushing continues, the manipulation continues – in some ways it has gotten worse.
I’m doing the best that I can but some days I feel like just walking out. Legally that is not the wises move. I have tried to contact my attny but with the holidays I have not heard back from her.
I have taken back the master bed room, which added some degree of peace but not enough. At this point she needs to leave as soon as possible.
Anger….and more anger is what I cycle through these days. Angry at myself and angry at the whole sitch. I know that this anger is normal and must be processed but it sure as hell is not easy. I continue to enjoy the kids but also have begun to realize that Eric too need his time.
I am constantly fighting within myself....the fight is about accepting my role in all of this and being pissed at myself for it and also pissed at her actions, speicifically as it relates to the children and the D proceedings.
Initially she agreed to a 50/50 split and agreed to have the kids come to my house on the weekdays that she worked so that I could do homework with them and make dinner for them. She agreed to this at the last meeting with the attnys.
She agreed that I would move back into the master bed room the morning of the day that I did.
She agree that we should talk to the kids about implementing the parenting plan that we agreed to at the last meeting.
Then, as you would have suspected (and stupid me…I still expected that she would be truthful and honest) she changed her mind.
Now, she claims that she did not “understand” what she agreed to regarding the 50/50 split of custody. She believe that on the days that she is working during the week that the kids should remain in her apt (whenever she moves) by themselves. We attempted to discuss this yesterday to no avail. BUT what the heck was I thinking. I had to remind myself (with some help) that right now this is about what SHE wants. My feelings/interest, the kids interest, no one interest matter but hers. I will not argue the change in her parenting plan. I will still have the kids ½ the time ASSUMING she does not change her mind tomorrow, which at this point would not shock me in the least.
Although she agreed that I would move back into the master bed room, that evening when she arrive home, she proceed to go to the master bedroom and lie down (I was downstairs with my D watching a movie). When I went upstairs, I reminded her of the agreement that we made. She actually looked at me and said “no I did not agree to that”, when I replayed the convo to her, her comment was “well I like the ways things are right now” to which I responded “I am sure that you do but I do not agree”, she then said “well I have now changed my mind and I want to stay in the master bed room”, to which I responded “I did not change my mind and only want you to honor your agreement – you are more than happy to remain in the bed but I would prefer that you not”. A stare down ensued followed by her stomping like a child out of the bed room. She went downstairs and my son witnessed her mini rant. I proceed to go downstairs and finish watching the movie with my D. Long story short, I am back in my bed and getting some much needed rest. She is now sleeping with my D in her bedroom.
Oh…it get’s better, yesterday I reminded her that she also agreed that we should sit down with the children to implement the parenting plan that we agreed on. She again changed her mind. I explained to her that it is in the children’s best interest to have a plan in place prior to her departure. Her response “I am still in the house so why change it”. I explained to her that it was less confusing for the kids and that from everything I read it was the best for them. She said it could wait. At that time my oldest son asked what was going on….Mary Ann agreed then that we should discuss the schedule with the kids. When I started to go over the calendar with the kids she started to question things like…well right now I am off on Wednesday so who will have the kids. I said to her that based on what we agreed to that I would have them on Wednesday but that I would be flexible until her schedule changed. It ended up turning into a very uncomfortable conversation because it was in this conversation that I found out she was not going to agree with her original plan of having the kids with me during the weekdays. I reminded her that this is what she agreed to and that it was written down on the same piece of paper that suggest that I would assume 90% of the debt (since she has said that I did not say this). Her response was that yes it is the debt that you incurred, my response it was debt incurred while you remained home or worked part time. The conversation was very uncomfortable and my final response to her was….going forward if you are going to continue to change what you say or agree to please communicate with me via email or via the attny.
So B, it has been one hel* of a few weeks for me. She is suddenly starting to come home at reasonable times, she is now trying to be involved with the kids a little more, which I think is good for them. The issue is really about control. She wants full control and I believe that the control regarding our children should be shared.
The kid who heard the whole conversation were clearly impacted by it. It is another reason why I believe it is best that she leave the home as soon as possible and that we begin to implement the parenting plan immediately.
Oh....and before I forget I have to post my Christmas day issues where STBXW went off. A quick recap of some quotes...
her father believe she needs help
her mother says she is lost
her father says that she is going to have a breakdown
my Stbxw screams to me that all of this is my fault
Yeah....it was a nice christmas day.
Eric
Eric - reading your post reminded me of my favorite quote:
No one falls in love by choice, it is by CHANCE.
No one stays in love by chance, it is by WORK.
And no one falls out of love by chance, it is by CHOICE
Everything is about choice. I re-read Michelle's article, Forgiveness is a gift you give yourselfand the last paragraph is perfect for any of us - whether we are still standing or we are done and moving forward...
"Just keep in mind that forgiveness isn't a feeling. It is a decision. You decide that you are going to start tomorrow with a clean slate. Even if it isn't easy, you make the determination that the alternative is even harder, and that you are going to do what you must to begin creating a more positive future."
You are so positive my friend - always supporting the rest of us. Right now you need use all of that great advice you give us and listen to yourself when you start to get down and frustrated.
Happy New Year Eric!! (stress is on the Happy part!)
I'm so sorry, sweetie. Really and truly.
I'm sorry that your wife doesnt see what a good father you are. It amazes me that a mother would not want their father in their children's lives as much as possible. I would love nothing more than my h to be part of my son's life and have done all I could to facilitate that to no avail.
Anyway, I know how hard it is to still be in the same house. I did it for more than two years.
And the divorce process is going on 9 months for me so I know of where you speak.
Here's the thing, you need to always remember that she is in crisis. Not to give her a free ride or to take any of the ownership off of her actions. It is only for you to understand that she is not going to react in the way that a 'normal' person would.
She is inside her own head. She cannot see outside of it. You are the enemy in her mind.
So, with that understanding, you become able to stop yourself from going in circles with her. That does nothing but make you dizzy.
Going round and round about the parenting agreement serves no purpose. You have to dig in and wait until it is spelled out legally.
If you feel you must, explain to the kids that you are working on figuring out how to best handle the arrangements and leave it at that for now.
When you have more info, you can give them more info. Just be sure to let them know that you and their mom always have their best interests at heart and are doing the best you can during a difficult situation.
And try as hard as you can not to get into these arguments with her, Eric. The more you argue, the harder she is going to come at you.
You wanted to sleep in your bedroom, you set the boundary and that's ok, I might have laid right down next to her. But that's me. Hee hee.
Your children are watching. To them, it doesnt matter who is right or wrong, just that they are safe.
I know it's hard. I do. The sooner you accept the crazy and stop being so surprised by it, the better off you'll be.
Find happiness in small things. Pray. Enjoy your children. Be the man you have become.
Live your life, Eric.
You've been through tougher stuff. You gotta dig in a little deeper, but as you said to me - you got this.
I am here if you need to talk.
Oh....and before I forget I have to post my Christmas day issues where STBXW went off. A quick recap of some quotes...
her father believe she needs help
her mother says she is lost
her father says that she is going to have a breakdown
my Stbxw screams to me that all of this is my fault
Yeah....it was a nice christmas day.
Eric
Eric, my friend, that up there ^^^^^ is what I see too.
Our sitches are so similar. Know that you are not alone.
I might as well copy and paste what you wrote up there^^^
and put it on my thread.
BUT, the cool part is we get to share this stuff. WHAT A
BLESSING THAT IS !!!!!
I think of all the men out there who don't have a clue what
is happening to their W when they go through MLC.
I wish we could all be partying it up in CT or NY with you
for NEW YEARS!! It would be a blast!! Hang in there sir!!
CHEERS TO YOU MR. RICAN!!!!!
Oh Eric, I am so sorry about Christmas, but your post about the New Year inspired me. Thank you so much for your postings my friend. You are in my thoughts and prayers...
Eric,
I am sorry that you have to deal with your wife in MLC. You are doing great setting your boundaries and wanting to do what is best for the children.
You are a good man, and one day you will be appreciated for that. 2011 will be a benchmark year for you!
God Bless
All,
I have not posted an update on my thread in what feels like an eternity. I’m try to make this short (yeah right).
Since the last November 4 way meeting between STBXW, myself and our L’s not much has happened on the legal front. Most of the changes have really been with me.
• I now want this D I believe more than she does.
• I made a decision to stop serving ice cream with the cake that she was eating.
• We are still in the same house; however, I have moved back into the master bedroom and she is now sleeping in my 9yr old daughters room.
• The R between my oldest son and myself has gotten worse.
• The R between my D and myself is the same…she is one of the positives in all of this.
• My middle son continues to be hooked to the X-Box and spend most of his time shooting zombies. And yes, every now and then (when I beg and plead enough) he lets me play with him and his friends.
• My W has said she was going to move; although she has done nothing to indicate that she is moving.
On December 23rd I sent the following email to my STBXW….
STBXW,
As we discussed this morning, the time has come to start moving in the direction you have pushed towards. While I haven't agreed to most of it, I have come to accept that these are your wishes.
As we agreed to this morning, now seems to be as good a time as ever to implement the parenting plan that we both agreed to at our last four way discussions with the attorneys.
Starting today or after the winter break for the children if you prefer, I think would be a good time to start acclimating them to the schedule. Until the time you relocate, I would like to honor our agreement in such a manner that it follows what we agreed on. To summarize what we agreed to:
Saturday after 1pm, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday the kids should contact you with any concerns or questions. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday until 1pm I will be responsible for the children and they should direct any questions or concerns to me.
As agreed, the schedule will remain fairly flexible around your work schedule (I forgot the term the lawyers used) although I will need advance notice on any changes that take place so that the calendar in the kitchen can be updated to reflect that and so that I can plan accordingly. I would really appreciate it if you could give me at least a week or two notice if your schedule changes.
I will update the calendar in the kitchen for the remainder of December, as well as January, and February as to who will facilitate the parental responsibilities on designated days.
I have also decided that although I respect the wishes of the children, they are still children. And they still require guidance throughout their decisions they make. And while I will remain flexible with S17, that freedom will diminish slightly with S15, and then even less for D9. When they are scheduled with me, they will be with me. When they are scheduled with you, then they will be with you. It really gives them the true benefit of being with both parents.
Every book I have read states, and I believe the parenting class reaffirmed, that setting a firm schedule, and posting it helps tremendously with the transition period. I will support you, and I expect your support in return.
It will become less about what they want , and more about what they need. And regardless how we feel about each other, we are still their parents. And our decisions need to be unified for their benefit.
Unity in our decisions regarding them, will help them down the road, and establish the groundwork for them not playing us for a fool at every opportunity, which we both agree we have already seen already.
Their mental well-being is as equally important through this as their physical well-being is so let’s do our best to work together for their best interest.
There are things still in the air that also need to be settled. I would like a firm date on your move. I would also like a list of things you plan on taking with you, so that I may prepare to replace if I choose so. I am not opposed to whatever you wish to take, I would just like to know so that I don't look for something down the road and wonder where it is.
As we discussed and agreed to this morning, starting this weekend, I will be moving back into the master bedroom. The option is yours as to whether or not you choose to remain until your move out date. My preference would be for you to not remain where I sleep.
One other thing that I need to address with you. It has come to my attention, that there are things being shared about your personal thoughts about me with our children. I have, and will continue to treat you with the utmost respect. And I expect the same in return from you. If you feel the need to comment on what you feel my deficiencies are, please refrain from doing so, to , and in front of our children.
Thank you for your cooperation through this.
Eric
---------------------
The tension in the house can sometime be a little unbearable but I remain steadfast in my belief and doing what I have said I would do, which is not leave. At this point in the process everything appears to be legal maneuvering on her end, which can be quite frustrating at times.
The most recent issues that have surfaced are related to some of the comments that my STBXW is making around the children. Most of it is around “daddy not giving me money”, “I have to protect you from daddy”..blah…blah..blah…. The stuff that comes out of her mouth these days never ceases to amaze me. I will say that the vicious is masked behind this sweet women who was tortured.
The stuff that stings I look at – that which doesn’t I just ignore. Having said this, not much stings these days. I have come to accept that I cannot change what happened years ago. I can only change things going forward and today. I have also accepted that nothing I say, do, do not do, do not say will change how she feels. I no longer feel the need to apologize for mistakes that I made. I no longer wait for her forgiveness. I no longer expect anything from her. Actually…I take that back…I expect nothing but pain, anger and hate from her. I actually feel sorry for her while at the same time I have come to respect that she just like I has made a choice to live her life the way right now she wants to live it. I still find it difficult to wish her well and my hope is to reach that place once she is out of the house and I can continue my healing process. I have accepted that my M is dead and gone. I have accepted that right now, I do not even want to be her associate. Part of me wishes her well on her journey, part of me hopes that one day she will realize as I have that someone else is not the cause of your unhappiness or happiness for that matter.
Over the past few months and weeks I have dealt with the rage and anger that can sometime overwhelm me. I would to thank my friends (you know who you are…who have been around to talk me down from the ledge). We often talk about detaching and I must say this is such a process. For the newbies…realize that you can detach AND still get pissed off. You’re human. You will know when you reach the level of detachment that we all strive for. I will also so that it is so important to really take a step back and figure out what you want to do for YOU. To live your life for you. To make your choices for you. In some ways, with no consideration of your spouse. You must really and truly let them go.
These days I sit and wait until our court date. I am no longer willing to waste time to try to reach a settlment with someone who is not rational.
My state is a mother state so I know I have an uphill battle in order to gain 50 % custody. I have gotten to a place where I have finally accepted that whatever is going to happen will happen as it relates to custody. That is not a defeatist ‘tude…no…just that I realize that I can only control my actions, my thoughts, my words – The rest I’m leaving up to God.
Recently my attny sent W's L a letter asking that she cease from making these comments. I could have my L file an order to that effect; however, IMO, that will do nothing but add more fuel to the fire. So I will see how the next few weeks go and determine what next steps I need to take.
So what is next for me?
1) Continue to be the best dad I can be.
2) Try and repair as best I can the R between my oldest and myself
3) I would like to finalize the terms of custody and the divorce settlement as soon as possible.
4) I would like her to leave so that I can finish “processing” the feelings that I pretty sure that I will feel.
5) I would like to repaint the inside of my house. I’m thinking of some pastel colors like pink and baby blue (no comments Grit or Mach). BTW, just kidding about the colors.
6) I have to do a few home repairs, which I will need to save up for.
7) Continue to pay down debt. I am doing much better and finally stop worry about what “legally” I should or should not do. I follow a simple rule….do what is right. So the right thing is to pay down the debt.
8) Work on my landscaping.
9) Sell the house if I deem I cannot afford it.
10) Continue to live my life the way I want to live it
11) Develop new relationships that will grow over time
I’ll try to post more in the coming days.
God Bless,
Eric
Hi Eric...so good to hear from you.
You seem in a good place mentally...yes we all still get angry at times...as you said we wouldn't be human if we didn't. It must be incredibly hard to still be living under the same roof. I hope that the process will move the way you want it to move so you can start healing and living your life on your own terms.
Take care
Mila
Eric,
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you're doing the best you can do given the difficult circumstances you're in. It sounds like your W is still totally self-focused. Your children are fortunate to have you as a father. I hope the state sees it the same way.
I could be wrong, but more and more the courts are becoming 50/50 states where obviously concerned and devoted parents are concerned. Even here in Arkansas. It can be a good thing or a bad thing. Just promise yourself that if you get the 50/50, and it ever becomes a bad choice for the kids, you will be willing to compromise. I've seen the cases of bad, too. Two households, two sets of rules. The one that has rules and enforces them becomes the "Bad" house and the fight is on.
You want this to end. I know you do. You also want to be a positive force in your kid's lives. You are that, I believe. Just know from the getgo that 50/50 can be sticky when the other partner is unwilling. And it goes on, and on, and on . . .
I think you get my drift.
Keep passing the open windows.
All
I have not posted an update on my sitch in what feels like an enternity. So here goes…
1) I feel good…real good actually.
2) I am still legally married; although moving forward with the divorce.
3) Moving out of the marital home; although putting me in a less advantageous position legally was the BEST thing I did…in a long time.
4) My children (at least two of them) have transitioned very well. My R with my D remains strong and she actually prefer to be with me at “Daddy’s house” (although I keep correcting her…”our house”). The R with my middle son is GREAT.
5) I do not really speak much with my oldest who remains angry. I have focused on detaching from HIM and giving him the space he needs. I am not giving up on him, rather, I will no longer allow his anger and issues to impact me or the other two children.
6) I can say with 100% certainty that the legal process in my state [censored]!
7) I was involved in a R that I recently ended. It was a good R; however, my life with my kids and finishing up the legaility of my divorce are my highest priority. To that end, any plans or person that gets in the way of that must be removed from my life.
8) Did I forget to say that moving has been a God sent gift to me.
9) I am feeling strong, feeling confident…feeling more comfortable in my skin.
10) I still have work to do…and probably always will. BUT man….I feel good!
Taking a break from the boards was a good thing for me and I am sorry that I did not reach out to more of you over the past few months. I needed to really focus on me and the kids for a while.
Okay…enough of an update…..Party at my house in June or July…for those of you who know me well….shoot me an email and let me know what dates work for you! 
Oh…and Grit…NO we are not sleeping in the same bed together if you come up!
It feels good to be back guys!
With love,
Eric
Party at my house in June or July…for those of you who know me well….shoot me an email and let me know what dates work for you! 
Oh…and Grit…NO we are not sleeping in the same bed together if you come up!
It feels good to be back guys!
With love,
Eric
I am there!!!!!!
So if Grit is out are you holding some sort of lottery to see who is IN????? LOL
Good to have you back!!
Cheers
So if Grit is out are you holding some sort of lottery to see who is IN????? LOL
Good lord! Did u forget who u were talking to!!!!!
So if Grit is out are you holding some sort of lottery to see who is IN????? LOL
Good lord! Did u forget who u were talking to!!!!!
Nah, I didn't forget.....I am in a nice healthy R.....so I would not be a part of the lottery anyhow.
Jus sayin'
Cheers
So if Grit is out are you holding some sort of lottery to see who is IN????? LOL
Good lord! Did u forget who u were talking to!!!!!
Nah, I didn't forget.....I am in a nice healthy R.....
so I would not be a part of the lottery anyhow.
Jus sayin'
Cheers
Aaaaand if you weren't in said healthy relationship, you would be?
That's how I know.
Peace
PEI
Aaaaand if you weren't in said healthy relationship, you would be?
That's how I know.
And THAT ^^^^^ i show I know.
FTR, a poster named BOAT was next in line.
FTR, a poster named BOAT was next in line.
I bet he was
AWWWW Eric, it probably wouldn't be too bad.....Grit doesn't bite.
Hey Eric,
Left you a msg. on my thread. Glad to hear you're back. Is this party co-ed?
Aaaaand if you weren't in said healthy relationship, you would be?
That's how I know.
And THAT ^^^^^ i show I know.
FTR, a poster named BOAT was next in line.
Some how... I doubt that
Heard something about Memorial Day...
Still in your thoughts?
Oh…and Grit…NO we are not sleeping in the same bed together if you come up!
Why are you playing so hard to get now?
You are such a b!tch!
I'm bunking with Boat then.
Oh man, there was playing and I missed it!
Eric, nice to see you back. Really.
You boys play nice. Geez! LOL!
Punkin, it better be coed, cuz I am going to try to be there. Someone has to make sure they dont hurt themselves. Hee hee!
Hi Eric - good to see you back, I missed you
Why do you have to live so far...from the comments it sounds like your party will be wild...some girls better be there to keep an eye on you boys and make sure that you play nice...LOL
Glad to see you back on the boards Eric
Missed hearing from you.
Im with Mila...why u gotta live so far away??? lol
why u gotta live so far away??? lol
I guess that depends on your perspective.
I think he is only 90 mins away from me.
Hope this is on a Saturday night or Sunday.
Let me know the date. Maybe I can come too.
MHL, PEI, Warrior, Punkin, CAT, Brooklyn, Mila, Kissak, Cadet – thank you for stopping by.
Punkin – Yes it will be a coed event.
warrior – May I ask how you know that grit does not…..?
Cat04 – Looking at my budget now and with a visit to my mom planned, not to mention some of the new legal issues that have surfaced, namely my L has blown 13K so far (so I now have 23.00 balance left), STBXW new request (I pay her legal fees, I assume all debt, etc.) I am not sure I will memorial day is doable. That said, I still plan to have an event at casa de Santos… We can discuss though….
MILA – I suspect Brooklyn will keep everyone in line. Trust me – she always puts me in my place.
Thank you all – I missed everyone. That said, I wanted to let everyone know exactly where I am or at least share my thoughts.
Over the past few months, my emotions have been all over the place.
I’ve had days that I still missed STBXW and days when I just hated her. I’ve have had days when the world looks so much brighter and days when I just want to die (and no - I am not suicidal). I’ve have days of PURE RAGE…..almost an uncontrollable RAGE.
FTR, I am still angry…but it is a different kind of anger. An anger more about MYSELF and the choices that I made in my life. An anger or a regret if you will, that I did not get to the place where I am at sooner.
Yes….many tried to help, yes…may poured their hearts and soul out to me – BUT I did not listen or as someone dear to me pointed out – I FORCED myself to get a place a bit too soon. Aside from the anger though….I also feel a sense of peace and gratefulness – so it is a weird feeling in a way. Angry one second and grateful the next.
As the days move forward….my anger does appear to be dissipating. It only comes now and then - usually when STBXW does something else that I did not expect, which is not much. I have come to expect nothing but pain from her BUT I do understand that this is because SHE is in pain.
I have to say that I thank God for the friends that I have. Friends that have helped me in sooooo many ways. Friends that 1) have not given up on me 2) always challenge me 3) help me formulate my thoughts and work through some of the feelings.
To these friends…Thank you.
I also have come to realize so much about myself and this process. I feel I have experienced so much….. Here are just some of my thoughts…
• Rage – it will come and come so unexpectedly…..with a force that sometime, even I am amazed at. I can still remember a few weeks ago…I was getting ready to move and while I was driving..I started beating on the steering wheel thinking of the legalities of all of this. Thinking to myself, how, why, this makes no sense.
• Victim mentality – How easy it is to fall into this trap. Whoa is me….she did me wrong….this MLC thing [censored]….Why am I going thru this…why did I allow her to do this….blah…blah…blah…I have come to realize JUST how much this train of thought can HOLD one back. It is only when I am able to sit back and remind myself that EVERYONE is entitled to feel the way that they feel, EVERYONE is entitled to live the life they want to live and more importantly…..EVERYONE get to the place that they need to get to WHEN THEY (not ME) decide to move in that direction.
• My role – For a long time….I carried around a ton of guilt…long time. Sometimes I still do. Ya know, I can now look back at this whole sitch with a different set of eyes. I played a role in this. As did STBXW…but really I can only look at my role. I can only fix ME. I think back on my first year here…I think back on the advice that was given…”focus on you”, “detach” – Man is it so true. I have learned that focusing on oneself IS the only and BEST thing you can do. You can fix your chit…we can albeit by words or ACTIONS fix our spouses. Detaching takes so much time and effort. I believe that when you finally do…things become so much clearer…it is such a hard step to take. WHY? Cause deep down inside we often, at least I know I did, feel that we can somehow control our spouses feelings, we think that somehow we can reverse the things that we did, we think that somehow if we just do this or that…our spouses will realize what they are missing. Nope. Maybe they will maybe they won’t. The control is not ours. I have learned that the control is a way of trying to avoid facing my fear. IF I control this or that…well then I know what the next steps are. Funny thing….life really does not work this way. The giving up of control (and man is that tough) is really the only way to have some level or peace.
• Understanding – Ya know, as much as I still harbor some level of frustration with my STBXW…I really do understand why she is they way that she is now. At a level that I have never felt before…I really feel for her. Now that I am no longer in the home..the time away has given me the opportunity to reflect on the year plus that I remained in the home. Did it help – did it hurt? I really do not know and actually no longer care. It really does not matter. I have accepted that it had to go the way that it did. You know one of things that I have been pondering lately….is NOW that I have done work on myself…just how often I can sit on my soap box and point out what is wrong with me STBXW. Ya know, I had the luxury of these boards…these people – my STBXW has not. She has had to find her own way….I can understand why she may not (maybe she is) want to look inside herself. I can understand how she can feel she did her best. I can understand so much. Do I agree with a lot of what she does and says – NO BUT I can understand it.
• Silver linings (nickel T) – I have learned how important it is to look at the positives in ones life. If you do not…well then you are missing out on life. My children….especially my little girl….IF/HAD this not happened…would I be the father that I am today? Honestly probably not. IF/HAD this not happened…would I be the man I am today? Probably not. So for me the silver lining really is about where I was and who I became because of this. So there is the positive in all of this.
• Looking inside oneself – I still do this…I still struggle with it sometimes. I think it never really ends. Words that still come to mind….things that I still work on – day in and day out.
o Being alone
o Fear
o The Player in me
o Codependency
o Overcompensating
o Overindulgence
Man when you start to get real with yourself…sometime ya just do not like what ya see. The good news is…that anything can be changed IF I do the work. IF I continue to be brutally honest with myself.
• Dating while going thru this – all I can say on this topic is…..never start something when something else is still not done. Take the time for yourself. I can almost guarantee that if you are not totally healed, when you FIRST start feeling like you need someone. In most cases, someone WILL get HURT. It may not happen for a while but I believe it will.
I tried to give myself to someone else – only to realize after that I was still not ready. Only to realize that I jumped the gun, I wanted to USE this person to HELP me through this – It does not work! Unfortunately, ya get through this when you are supposed to get thru it. Is an OP needed for the LBS? In some ways I think so. Maybe is it just the way things work. My advice to anyone reading this…..I am not going to suggest NOT having an R….IF you do…please realize this – 1) your probably broken when you started this 2) the distraction will work for a period of time BUT at some point, the issues within yourself will surface 3) an OP helps to JUSTIFY and VALIDATE the feelings that your more than likely still have not dealt with – they are in most cases oblivious to what is really going on with you. My advice – stay alone….I am not saying not to have fun….nope – just be careful if you try to commit before you really are ready to. Personally, I think we tend to know this inside ourselves but it one of things we do not pay attention to.
• Acceptance – For the first time in a long time. I can say that I really will always love my STBXW. Do I love her now? After all of the crap that is going on (my legal sitch is brutal)? Yep. Why? 1) She did not f*ck this up by herself 2) my M was not all bad (that is her reality not mine and nothing she does will change that) 3) When you live in peace you want everyone else to live in peace 4) when you understand that your spouse is really batchit crazy and that really it is their internal pain that causes them to act the way they do – well then ya understand. 5) when you can finally step back, look past the anger, learn to understand that life really does just happen, in short chit happens…well then you can accept that things are they way they are. Note: acceptance does NOT mean you allow someone to kick you..allow someone to take advantage. Nope.
I have more thoughts going on in my head but wanted to share these….this post is for ME.
God Bless,
Eric
You have learned much, young Jedi. LOL!
Good for you, my friend.
This does suckk in many ways. Too many, in my opinion. But, what an opportunity for growth we probably would not have had.
It is a ongoing thing, living life.
We can only hope that we learn, we grow, we change, we love. We take the lessons and apply them where we can.
Each day I strive to be the person I was meant to be. Some days I make it, some days I dont. But each day I try.
Eric, it is ok, the feelings you have. It means you are alive. It means you love deeply.
And always, always we must try to get to a place of peace. I truly feel we get there when we are really able to wish our spouses no harm, when we wish them happiness.
Update:
A very emotional and interesting weekend for me…..
I spent it at home cleaning and watching movies, with the exception of going out to an arcade with my friend and his daughters. The kids were with their mother and her sister this weekend so I did not get to see them. It was the first Saturday that I did not have at least one of them and although it was a nice break – I really miss them.
Emotionally, I seem to be experiencing a host of emotions. One minute I feel at peace, one minute I feel anxious and nervous, one minute I am angry, one minute I am sad at exactly where I am. One minute I feel compassion for my STBXW, one minute I want to strangle her. One minute I feel totally depressed, one minute I feel so pissed at myself. A true emotional rollercoaster ride!
The difference between now and post bomb (in 2009) is the feelings of peace that can come over me. I soooo wished they would last longer. I also NOW know that whatever happens I will indeed make it. The panic attacks….are quick to pass.
Anywhoo…..A good friend of mine ask me two questions that I thought I would respond to….
Question 1 - How you envision your life now?
My life RIGHT now is VERY different than it was just a few weeks ago – Allow me to get a little more specific. I envision in my life now as …..
1) I am finally, facing my deep rooted fears of being alone. For a long long time I have avoided facing this fear. Too long actually. For the first time in my life I am facing it head on and with a renewed focus. Ya know I finally realized how much I NEEDED the opposite sex as a distraction to help me avoid looking at the fear. Some of you know that I have dated quite a bit during this process and although I think some of it was needed, I would say that it stopped me from continuing the work on myself. So I have made a choice to stop…stop playing the field, just stop and deal with it. Being alone at least from an emotional connection to someone else perspective, has allowed me to really take a step back and realize just how big of a role I played in the demise of my M and really just how f’d up I was. It has also helped me to realize some of the positive that have come out of this nightmare. For one, I know myself much better now than at any other point in my life.
FTR, when I say I am realizing my role in the demise of the M, I am not swimming in guilt per se – just spending time realizing my role over the entire 18 year M. I am also spending time reflecting on the past 20 months, which has helped me to have a bit more compassion towards STBXW (though I still have bouts of rage and anger towards her). As I said in a previous post, often we do and I know I DID….some work and then stood on my soap box and point out how much work my MLC spouses needed to do….INSTEAD of taking my focus off of her and placing it on myself where I am/could make the changes needed. I have laundry list of things that I KNOW I still need to work on. The work will never stop and I have finally realized just how LONG it takes.
2) Trying to repair the R between my oldest son and myself. Right now we do not have one. none. As much I understand that he needs to process and feel his anger, it still hurts. Hurts like nothing I have felt. My son had made comments that 1) he will never ever come to my house again 2) that he has taken on the role of “man of the house” since dad left him 3) that HE is now responsible for his younger brother and sister.
Some of what he says I know is pure anger….normal – yes – hurtful – more than one can imagine unless you have lived it. I have tried to apply basic DB principals i.e. validation, detaching, etc. BUT man…it is hard. Some of this I assume is a normal behavior for a 17 year old – some I think is the result of the sitch. STBXW, does not help and I no longer expect her to, what I guess I expected early on (yes I know…I should have no expectations) was that she would stop making it worse or adding fuel to the fire. I have realized that what she says or does not say is outside of my control and the only thing I can do is be there for him, when and if he decided to finally take a step towards me. As much as I wish I could explain to whole thing to him, I know that he is NOT in a place where he would understand. I have accepted that he will (if he ever does) come to understand what happened when and if he is ready to.
3) I envision my life as a single parent. My kids are my highest priority and I need to continue to allow them the time and room that they need to heal. I have to put some of my needs on the back burner for now. My middle son has adapted very well to me being out of the house. As a matter of fact he just text me asking to come over cause he “misses me” (it is my STBXW day with the kids). The time I spend with them is great. My house is always full of kids and most if not all of their friends (at least the two younger ones) love to come over. I continue to be called “daddy” by oh…..about 15 kids. The other day I took my two youngest to the movie theater with 5 friends. One lady looked at me and said….”are these all of your kids”. I said No just these two. “did you bring all of these kids with you then” – My response – “yep – I always have a few with me” – Her response “WOW – I am not sure how ya do it”. It was a nice exchange and as I look back on my life…really shows me just how much of a parent I have become.
4) Right now, my life is also focused on the legal matters so for now, I need to focus on trying to address the numerous legal issues that have been raised by STBXW and her attny. Legally it is going to be a fairly painful process. My attny [censored] but at this point I really do not have the cash to change. I have a ton of motions that have been filed. As much as I tried (maybe a little too much…actually make that tried to control) to settle this nicely – it does not appear that it will go that route. I have finally realized that the only person that will be able to end this and explain to stbxw what the divorce details WILL be are her attny or a judge. Either way, the legal process has been an eye opener for me. I will say, that the damage caused by the process can seem overwhelming at times. So the short answer to the original questions is….my life is getting through the process right now.
5) I also envision my life right now as a rollercoaster. I understand that to some extent I can try and choose what feeling I focus on – it is so easier said then done. Pain, hurt, disappointment, anger, rager….All of these feeling will need to be processed. I do not want to come across as a downer – no – I KNOW that I will make it…but the reality is that these emotion must be dealt with.
6) Right now my life is also about trying to resurrect my career, while also continuing to keep my kids needs first. I have done a much better job. The balance between work and family life will is something that I think I am doing pretty good at.
Okay on to Question 2 – What goals do you have for YOU?
a. Continuing to be the best parent I can be (and FTR, I think I’m actually a much better parent now than at any other point in my life) but also finding the right balance.
b. Healing first and foremost
c. Keeping a roof over the kids and my head
d. Getting through the divorce process so that custody and finances are finalized
e. Coming up with a budget
f. Getting through the next few months.
g. Longer term goals….
i. Healing….
ii. Finding a true place of peace
Okay back to work…..
Eric
Hey all ...
Just got a call from E and the meeting went well, he wanted me to give y'all a quick update ...
He got his 50/50 custody!
Temporary orders are in place and it shouldn't take much longer to finalize things
He's got his D10 tonight but said he'd try to be around soon to fill in the blanks!
Peace
PEI
Thanks for letting us know, Pei.
That is great news. Prayers do get answered. Eric, my friend, I know how much you wanted this.
As far as your oldest, I can only imagine how hurtful it must be for you.
Continue to try to remember where his anger is coming from.
Give him time and space. Use the db techniques you have learned. And keep reminding him that you love him and you are there for him. That's all you can do right now.
You are doing great!
Eric,
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I know that emotionally as well as mentally, you went through the wringer.
I suppose, if I was trying to point out the bright side to you, which I am, monetarily, your oldest will soon be of age and your support will go down. Hopefully some of the CC's will pay off, and as you progress, your income will increase. Not to say you don't have a tough row to hoe the next few years.
A little advice, if I may, from a Mom's POV:
You mentioned your D is trying to express her feelings. Encourage her, but don't push. And as far as the son who takes things in stride; I believe that is a defense mechanism. Don't take it for granted he is doing okay. My youngest uses the same defense towards her Dad, and she's 23. Your eldest, you are exactly right about. The eldest is usually the closest to Mom emotionally and has the hardest time. Do not fall into the trap ( as my XH did ) that as he grows older and matures, he will see it from your side. Keep trying, gently. Never let him be able to think that you 'abandoned' him. You may have to grow an Armadillo shell to counter all the rebuffs, but he will always know you were there, and trying.
Now we hold our breath as we wait for all the pieces to fall and settle into place in our new lives. I have not seen my settlement on paper either, so there may be more battles ahead. (Sigh)
Keep your chin up Eric. ((hugs))
Looking for some advice/words of wisdom…
Many of you are well aware of the challenges that I have had with my oldest son (17) and I have been trying to figure out what I can do to at least try and repair/reconcile the relationship.
Here is a little background:
• Son is 17 and has always been closer to his mother (STBXW).
• Mother was a stay at home mom for the first 16 years of his life – until the MLC hit and she now works full time
• I remained in the martial home for about 18 months post bomb (I still often wonder if this was the right thing to do but it is what it is and I cannot change the past)
• I have two other children – D10 and S15.
• The R between the other two children is solid.
• D10 has always been very close to me
• S15 is close with both of us.
• Since moving out, S15 and D10 spend between 70 – 50% of their time with me at my house.
• Since moving out S17 (he is going to be 18 in Dec of this year), has stayed over only twice.
• Since moving out son has made the following statements to his friends:
o I am now the man of the house since my dad left us
o I now have to take care of mommy
o I am now forced to do the lawn and all of the house hold work because my dad left us
o I now have to take care of my younger brother and sister
o I now have to cook for my younger brother and sister
• S17 friends have all approached me and said that son is wrong. Most of them “saw” what transpired in the marital home while I was still in the house. In short, I because for the most part a full time parent, while STBXW was busy working and doing whatever she wanted.
• S17 is seeing a therapist whom I did not select; however, in order to avoid any confrontation with son (he apparently feels comfortable with her) I have chosen to allow the therapy to continue (this was against my L’s advice – since the therapist was also seeing my STBXW..or at least had two sessions with her that I am aware of).
• While in the house, STBXW has by her own admission made statements to S17 that would place her as the victim and me as the villain. I understand that I cannot do anything about it but it still does piss me off.
• STBXW…continues to make statements that do not promote a healthy R; however they are very subtle…i.e. mommy needs to live in a 2 bedroom because daddy does not give us enough money (FTR, I continue to pay what I was paying even though not legally required to).
• S17 has said to STBXW, that he will NEVER stay over dad’s house again.
• The place that I have moved to is actually nicer than the martial home and I think S17 resents that.
• In Nov of 2010 after a 4 way meeting with the L’s, STBXW said that she did not want to remain in the martial home (in the Sept 4 way meeting she said she wanted the house, which I agree to give her). At this 4 way meeting both of us agreed to tell the children together. I honor my part of the deal; however, STBXW did not. The weekend following the legal meeting, all three children went to STBXW parents house for the weekend. It was during the drive down that STBXW told the children that she was not going to remain in the home because she could not afford it (note: at this time the financials had not be discussed with the attny’s). It was also during the drive down that STBXW told the children that “I have to protect you so you will need to be with your father half the time” and “the three of you will never be split”. After these statements, the children were quite angry with me – angry because they felt I was not taking care of mommy.
• D10 has said to me, that I need to take care of Mommy, that I should pay more bills than mommy. My response has been that I am, that I am sorry that she feels that I am not and that both mommy and I love her very much.
• S17 has claimed that he wants to live with STBXW.
• D10 and S15 have said that they are comfortable with a 50/50 arrangement, which is what we have at this time.
• S17 now appears to have some serious anxiety issues. Such that he did not go to school. STBXW claims that it is because his girlfriend is getting her license.
• S17 always had self confidence issues. He masks these by being a bully to other kids (at 15 he was 6 foot 210 lbs – a big kid for his age).
• S17 has never been a very good student, which has contributed to his confidence issues.
To date, my approach with S17 has been to:
• Detach and give him the space he needs.
• Continue to try and send him texts every few days to say that I love him and I hope he is doing well.
• I have not communicated to him some of the comments that his friends have repeated that he has said. In short, several have said that S17 openly discuss how much he can’t stand me.
• Continue to try and reach out when I pick up the other two children. I always go up to him and give him a kiss and ask him how he is doing.
• As it relates to his school work and the attitude that he has at school. I have told S17, that I feel that he can do much better but that HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE choices that she makes in HIS LIFE.
• I have told S17 that I will always love him.
So I guess my question is….what else if anything can I do?
I want to make sure that S17 understands that I love him and would love him to be a part of my life. What I will NOT allow is S17 to become a disruption OR impact the R between my other two children and me. I understand that some of this is the result of him being 17. Where I struggle is how much or what part is the result of the D and if I can do anything else to help him.
Finally, there are a few things that I want to avoid with S17.
1) I do not want to try and “buy” him. So I need to tread lightly here.
2) I do not want S to feel any pressure
3) I do not want the other two children to feel that they too can treat dad like crap and dad will take it
4) I do not want S17 to feel like he is being treated like a second hand son.
Any thoughts comments are appreciated.
Is either a family therapy session [all 5 of you] or a therapy session with your stbx and yourself and son 17 a possibility?
It sounds like you need to have an arena to talk openly but with another person there. Good therapists are hard to fool, and since both of the other 2 have self esteem issues they feel good about themselves by dissing you.
You will probably have to take this at first while they get it off their chests. Truth, to many people, is much less important than how they feel. Your son is upset with his mother I suspect, at bottom, but because he is closer to her he is blaming you. easier that way - saves having to think about the facts.
Just my 2c.
Beatrice
Thank you for your response.
STBXW and I did attend a session with the therapist that saw the three children.
- I was never given the address of the therapist but found her business card in the house, which is how I was able to contact her.
- That said, STBXW said to me "IF you want to go, you can come this Wednesday at 6pm (at the time she knew I did not know where or who this person was). When I found the business card, I knew I was going to go. FYI, this happened in Jan of this year.
- While at the therapist, 1) I was upset in part because I was not told that the kids were going (note: I had ask STBXW for months that we should do this and do it together as I thought it was best for the kids. She decided to do it on her own and never consult with me) 2) The therapist's approach was very different than anything I have read or heard. For example, I asked, rather mentioned to the therapist that STBXW did not want to implement the parenting plan - The therapist comment was "well she does not have to", my response was that everything that I have read says that it is best for the children to follow a plan once it was agreed to, the therapist response was "well I do not agree".
In addition, the therapist felt that I should leave the house - I did not agree (at the time). It was at the therapy session, that I found out that apparently my son had some "dream", which is why he was angry. When I asked how he is doing...the therapist responded that she is not able to provide that info to me. When I asked the therapist that I did not feel comfortable with her seeing my son, she said I had no choice (BTW, my lawyer disagreed). I thought about forcing the issue i.e. make it a legal one; however, after much thought I did not want to further alienate my son.
both of the other 2 have self esteem issues they feel good about themselves by dissing you.
It is not the other two it is my oldest that has the self esteem issues. The other two are fine. That said, I do realize that in order for my oldest to feel better he must continue to "diss" me. I will not tolerate it though and I suspect that he knows this. Hence he does not come over.
You will probably have to take this at first while they get it off their chests.
I did for a long time. I walked on eggshells and did not want to upset him. I am though his father....not his friend. I will not allow him to disrespect me or the other kids. I understand that he has some anger issues to deal with but I will no longer subject myself to it. That IMO, is not healthy.
Your son is upset with his mother I suspect, at bottom, but because he is closer to her he is blaming you. easier that way - saves having to think about the facts.
I get this...i really do. I guess the question i am trying to answer is....
Other than detaching and allowing him the room to process his anger...what else can I do. I do not want to lose him but I do understand that I am somewhat limited in how I can pull him closer.
Thank you again Beatrice.
Eric
Hey E,
I'm short on time but wanted to add my quick 2 cents (zip it Mach!)
I think, and I'm guessing here, that beatrice meant your stbxW and S17 when she said "the other two"...
You can't PULL him closer. He'll resist.
DB him E.
Validate him. Set boundaries. Love him unconditionally.
He'll come around ... or he won't. All you can do is consistently love him and be there for him.
I've said it once, and I'll say it a million times ... GROW A THICKER SKIN
Stop taking what he says and does personally, in fact I still think it would be a good idea for you to pick up a few books on parenting teens...
You've said up there that you're not his friend, you're his father, and while I agree with this statement, make sure you don't get too authoritarian in an attempt to prove your point. Also, keep in mind that he is becoming a man, and the relationship of a father and a son evolves as that son ages and comes into his own.
Love him.
Validate him.
Don't rescue him from himself or situations he gets himself into.
Continue to tell him you love him.
Never talk to his friends about him (listen but STFU) - TRUST ME, it will come back to haunt you if you do! Don't even agree with them when they say he's messed up etc. And never tell him they've spoken to you.
Always act respectfully towards his mother.
And grow that thicker skin will ya, you think teenage boys are tough .........
Peace
T
PEI - and Eric, yes, by the other two I meant stbx and eldest son. Sorry that the therapy session wasn't good. Sadly there are some not very competent therapists out there along with some very good ones.
I agree with PEI. Love your son, speak respectfully of their mother even when she doesn't 'deserve' it,
Hey, my friend. I agree with Pei. Dbing him is the way to go.
But, I would add that you should not be talking to his friends about him at all. Not appropriate in my book. And if he ever finds out, it aint gonna be pretty.
It really doesnt serve you well to hear what they say. You dont even know if they are adding to it. It doesnt help you in any way.
It is disrespectful to your son. These are his thoughts to his friends.
As far as he is concerned, you really cant do anything more. He knows you love him. He is just hurting and confused. Add in the hormones and man, it's tough stuff.
Continue to be the kind of dad you want to be. Set your boundaries with him. No disrespecting you. Never a bad word about his mom. Treat him with respect. Let him know you love him.
Then, let this play out for him. In time, he will realize what really happened. Children know way more than we give them credit for.
Time is what is needed. So, be patient. It may take a long while.
Hang in there, sweetie.
Are you approaching his friends or are they coming to you?
IF my sons friends come to me with concerns about my son, I am not turing them away. I am not feeding them information to gain them as my friends either.
4) I do not want S17 to feel like he is being treated like a second hand son.
Hrnmm...
Your son isn't having an MLC.
My oldest is 15. My youngest is 10.
When my oldest complained that it felt like the youngest could do nothing wrong, I asked him;
"Is he?"
"No."
"But me and mom should...treat him, like we treat you with your attitude and your talking back, not doing your chores? You get what you give buddy. Doesn't mean I don't love you, but if you give me attitude I'll break it."
PS - 107 bottle of beer on the wall...107 bottle of beer you take one down and...no...wait...start over.
I agree with many of the others. I think it sounds like you're doing a ton here to try to make things work and I think honestly that a fair amount of this is normal 17 year old behavior that is exacerbated by the sitch. I watched my youngest sister act very much in this way after me and her other 2 siblings were very "easy" to deal with for my parents. She acted much like your son is acting and yet, there was no divorce, no familial problems that were pressing at the time. It was just her personality. For the record, that sister is now the very closest to both my parents and the total opposite in personality. She is constantly driving to see them and spend time with them and the most thoughtful and loving towards them of all 4 of us. So I just think a fair amount of this is normal angsty teen. He just has a way to focus the behavior with there being a family problem going on.
With that said, I also agree to DB him. You have often said DBing is really a way of life, so, it would follow that you use that here. The more you push him, the more he'll pull away. My mom used to tell my sister when she was in her "phase" that she loved her all the time--and yet prior to that mom wasn't an "I love you" kind of mom. My sister just resented that attention, to be honest. She'd only roll her eyes. Not saying you shouldn't tell him you love him, but you dont' want to be pushy I guess.
Rent an hour at a local Boxing ring....
Let him have about......58 minutes knocking you around...
Save the last 2 for you...
He is 17, trying to forge his path in life, a lot of his issues, he would have, if you were still the happiest couple in the world.
I agree that you should DB him....to a certain point. Separate his learned behavior from his normal teenage behavior , then deal with the learned behavior....I.E. setting boundaries for that.
The normal behavior is only going to be addressed with time....that is why it is called...normal
You say his personality closely resembles his Mothers ?
How much do you address him, the way you address her ?
How much does his bahavior bring up too many memories to deal with, therefore you dismiss it, choosing to not deal with it ?
The -not so DB part - is that DBing your marriage in hopes she will look toward you again one day...
Your son WILL look toward you again one day, perhaps he is already looking toward you....
What are you showing him ?
Thanks everyone for the responses.
I wanted to clarify a few points…
That is exactly what I am doing. Doesn’t make it less painful and frustrating – that said, I am detached enough to recognize that my sons issues/anger are his to deal with. I will be there for him when and if he is ready.
But, I would add that you should not be talking to his friends about him at all. Not appropriate in my book. And if he ever finds out, it aint gonna be pretty.
I do not ask his friends about my son. They actually come to me to vent about a lot of things, some of which are about my son. I listen and most often do not have any comment other than, “son” is dealing with a lot.
This is exactly my boundary. Son is not one to outright disrespect me. It is more the tone and body language he displays when speaking to me.
Yep….he may or may not ever figure out a way to deal with his anger. Either way, I just keep loving him when the opportunity presents itself.
Are you approaching his friends or are they coming to you?
They approach me Jack. Trust me I know better than to ask/pry.
I am not turing them away. I am not feeding them information to gain them as my friends either.
I’m not Jack. I just listen. I do not feed them any info. My only comments are along the lines of…leave him alone, he has a lot that he is dealing with, etc. No details about STBXW, the history behind what happened with the M, etc.
Doesn't mean I don't love you, but if you give me attitude I'll break it."
That is the approach that I am trying to take with him. Firm to the point and strict boundaries. We barely speak these days as he does not come over. When we do speak I usually just ask him how he is doing and I remind him that I love him. It really is all that I can do.
You have often said DBing is really a way of life
It is Antonia…and trust me…It is how I deal with everyone in my life.
You say his personality closely resembles his Mothers ?
I say this for several reasons….
RIGHT NOWBoth are spoiled teenagers wanting what the want with no sense of responsibility or who they hurt in the process. Her cause by her own MLC, his I believe is typical teenage behavior. They both IMO have self confidence issues. My feeling is as they are now facing life…they are scared. Normal behavior imo. They both are the oldest children and feel the need to protect the younger ones.
How much do you address him, the way you address her ?
I actually deal with both of them much the same. I am pleasant but short and to the point. With my son I do try and communicate my love in the form of an “I love you”, which he never responds to but I want him to know that I am here for him. Funny….in one way I have taken on detachment to a new level.
Your son WILL look toward you again one day, perhaps he is already looking toward you
I am sure that he is….what I will not allow is behavior towards me that is disrespectful. I also feel that I need to show him that HIS choices will drive his life. Although he is angry and has a lot to deal with it does not give him a free pass to deal and treat people anyway he wants. Let me give you an example:
This past week my youngest son broke up with his girlfriend (she cheated or so I am told). My youngest asked me how to deal with it and I gave him my thoughts on the matter. Be respectful, do not attack her, focus on your happiness, understand that you did not cause her to cheat, etc. Youngest did pretty much what I was told….here is where it get interesting….I am at work last week and I get a call from the mother of the x of my youngest (15)…she starts screaming at me that my oldest (17) has started attacking her on facebook. She actually read what he posted and honestly I was embarrassed. I explained to the mother that I would speak with my son about this. When I did…..here is a short version of the convo….
Me – Son why did you attack the mother of youngest son X girlfriend?
Son – cause she is a slut.
Me – Why do you say that?
Son – cause she cheated on my brother just like my girlfriend did to me.
Me – so you feel that this gives you the right to critize her mother?
Son – yes – I was angry. I am allowed to vent right?
Me – Yes you can vent; however doing so in a public forum is really not appropriate.
Son – well I was angry.
Me – I understand you were angry – that said, being angry does not give you the right to do whatever it is you feel like doing.
Son – well she is a slut and must have learned that cheating is okay from her MOTHER (interesting enough STBXW was standing right next to me and put her head down)
Me – Why do you say that son?
Son – cause she must have learned it from her mother.
Me – really?
Son – Yes. It must have been how she was raised.
Me – really…so let me ask you a question…..did your mother and I
raise you to respond to her the way you did?
Son – silent
Me – Cause if everything WE CHOOSE to do is the result of how we were raised, then YOUR actions are saying that YOUR MOTHER, who stood home to raise you, and I did a piss poor job.
Bottom line son is that X gf is responsible for HER actions - we all are. We can give ourselves excuses if we want but at the end of the day each of us chooses how we live, react, respond and deal with everything in our life. SO EVEN if her mom did cheat, her D STILL made a choice to do it.
Son – okay so I was wrong
Me – Yes you were out of line. It is okay to be angry.
Son – well I needed to vent
Me – don’t you have a therapist to do that with?
Son – yes but I still needed to vent
Me – Understood, then maybe you should give some thought to other ways to vent.
Son – well I am sorry.
Me – BTW, her mother could have made a complaint against your mother and I.
Son – why…I did it…you guys didn’t
Me – cause right now you are still in minor in the eyes of society.
Son – that makes not sense.
Me – it is what it is. In any event she is not going to make a complaint against you. I am going to call her back.
Son – Well I am sorry.
Me – Do you feel that you owe her mother an apology?
Son – maybe but her D is still a cheating slut. Ya know I allowed her in the family. We took and accepted her in and she cheats on my brother.
Me – YOUR brother made the CHOICE to date her. It was HIS CHOICE. SO it was his issues to deal with and I believe he did.
Son – well he is my brother
Me – Yes he is and he loves you very much and I know that you love him very much. That said, it is not YOUR job to always protect him. He is a big boy and can take care of himself. Did he ask you your opinion? Did he ask for your help?
Son – no but he is my brother.
Me – I understand that. When your girlfriend cheated on you did he go on to facebook and blast her and her mother.
Son – No.
Me – can you see where you may have gone wrong.
Son – Maybe
Me – Son, I have said this to you before, everyone is responsible for their actions. They are responsible for there choices. Maybe your brother just needed you to listen. Maybe he did nto need you to try and rescue him. Son, sometime we need to let people learn and grow on their own. We need to let them live their lives and be their for them when and IF they want us to be. It was a lesson that your brother needed to learn. That said, I do understand how much you love your brother.
Son – I have to go to work.
Me – I will contact son X’s mom and apologize on your behalf.
Mach, it was an interesting exchange. The funny thing is that STBXW was standing there and did not say much at all. I dealt with my son as a father. I tried to validate and correct him where I could. So hopefully the above exchange answer your question of what am I showing him. If not, here is my answer to that question.
I am showing him how to…..
be respectful to women
that he is NOT entitled to do or say whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
What a man and father is
Showing him compassion and understanding
At the end of the day I am his father and as someone so eloquently reminded me…I am the template of what a father is. What I am trying to show him is RESPECT….respect for others, respect for his parents, respect for himself.
Once again, thank you all for your responses.
Final update....I had one kick butt weekend!
God Bless,
Eric
Me – I will contact son X’s mom and apologize on your behalf.
That is the only thing you said I have a problem with Eric.
If your asking for other's fathers points of view, this one is mine.
Accountability.
Where is his if your going to apologize for him?
Oh...make a new thread. : )