Time to move on...to a new thread:)! My third thread - this is a LONG journey and I know that I am just in the beginning.
Today I was included in several emails from the family regarding arrangements for niece's funeral. H cc'd me on an email to his work about taking half a sick day and informing them about the upcoming bereavement leave. Not sure why he cc'd me - but it's just another instance where I am baffled - but quiet. No responses from me.
My oldest D talked to me today and said "Mom, you need to start acting differently - get mad, get angry, think that he is an a$$hole - because he is. You don't have to confront him - but just feel it and begin to let yourself think and do things in a different way."
I think she is right. I am not looking to "poke the tiger" - I am needing to not let it matter so much to me right now. I need to WANT to avoid him instead of NEEDING to avoid him. I am still struggling with how to deal with recognizing that we each contributed to problems in our marriage - but I wanted to be held accountable by him if I was screwing up - and he didn't want to be accountable to me. In his MLC mind - I wasn't the one he wanted, so it wasn't worth the effort. How do you make amends with someone who doesn't want you in their life?
Anyways - that's my latest struggle - and I know many of you will perceive me as continuing to blame myself, etc. And there is probably some truth to that - but more I think these are the issues I am facing as I continue to detach. I've detached physically - no calls, texts, etc. from me - no visuals of him since July 30th - but emotionally I think there continues to be these strands that haven't completely let go.
Any perspective would be appreciated!
I had a hard time with the idea that I could have spent over half of my life with someone, actually lived with H longer then my own parents!...and yet it seemed he wanted nothing to do with me...how does that happen...was I so aweful?
All the answers are...it really has nothing to do with you...yes you made mistakes, everyone does...to err is human, remember? But no one ever deserves to be abandoned or cheated on!
It isn't you...it REALLY isn't you...but now, to keep yourself sane, is a good time to work on you!
Lin
IB
Believe me, you're not the only one struggling with detachment. I have my good days/weeks and bad days/weeks. Sometimes I feel I've reached at least a greater level of acceptance and then I'll seem to backtrack. I know that I still maintain a deep-seated expectation that things will work out. I'm trying to tackle that because I know logistically, there are no guarantees. By maintaining that as an EXPECTATION, I may be setting myself up for future pain and preventing my own growth. By keeping that as a HOPE but planning for a solo future, I should be OK either way. But that is SO much easier said that done.
IB
this is a LONG journey and I know that I am just in the beginning.
The length and the type of journey is what you define IB. Just remember that you control YOUR life and how you choose to live it.
Not sure why he cc'd me - but it's just another instance where I am baffled - but quiet. No responses from me.
It has been my experience that you will often see behavior from some one is a crisis that makes not sense. The challenge for me was to finally realize that you should not expand any effort trying to figure out what it is they are trying to say or why they do the things they do. The solution – DETACH.
My oldest D talked to me today and said "Mom, you need to start acting differently - get mad, get angry, think that he is an a$$hole - because he is. You don't have to confront him - but just feel it and begin to let yourself think and do things in a different way."
I think she is right.
IMO – she is. You need to get angry, you need to feel it and NO you should not confront him. Do you know what repressed anger is? Depression. IB, you have a right to be angry…it is what YOU do with this anger that will determine where you are. Do you use the anger to help you define where you went wrong, what you need to change and propel you forward OR do you use to hurl insults his way and call him and as*hole. FWIW – calling him a bunch of name would probably make you feel better in the short run BUT would it HELP YOU achieve what you want to achieve for YOU? Probably not, but your D is on to something….the anger IB…has to come out.
I kept my bottled up for months and one day exploded. Did I feel better? Yes initially and then I realized that my response what NOT how I wanted to responded. Nor was it WHO I wanted to be.
I am still struggling with how to deal with recognizing that we each contributed to problems in our marriage
Be honest with yourself is the first step. The second is detachment. Once you detach and are no longer driven by the emotional tornado that is MLC, you begin the process of looking inside yourself. It is then, that you begin to
really realize where and how you played a role in all of this. The tendency will then be to beat the living chit out of yourself, which is why IMO, many do not dig that deep. IF you begin to realize that you are beating yourself up – STOP and remember this – ALL of us, did the best we could with what we knew at the time. Now that you know better…it’s quite simple – do better. Ya know, we tell everyone to focus on themselves and the reason for this is quite simple. It is a win win for YOU. Regardless of what happens in your M – YOU will be better.
but I wanted to be held accountable by him if I was screwing up
Why did YOU need HIM to be accountable? Look at this IB. Why do you need anyone to be accountable for YOUR actions?
I wasn't the one he wanted, so it wasn't worth the effort.
I have said this to others and I’ll say it again….DO YOU really know that YOU are not the one he wanted? Stop trying to read his mind. Maybe he said this to you…I don’t know BUT even if he did, let me ask you a question. Have YOU ever said anything in anger that you regretted or better yet did not mean? Remember IB, he is angry – angry at himself. His anger though is not YOUR problem – it is his.
do you make amends with someone who doesn't want you in their life?
1 – when you forgive you will find that YOU can make amends. The really cool thing is that when you forgive and heal you realize that it is YOUR decision.
2 – “doesn’t want you in their life” – Yeah, maybe right this very second he does not want you in his life BUT isn’t it possible the he can change his mind? Isn’t it possible that he may need a lot more time to work through all of his issues? Stop focusing on HIM and get back to FOCUSING on YOU.
but emotionally I think there continues to be these strands that haven't completely let go.
Don’t rush it…you will let go when YOU are suppose to let go. Instead of focusing on why the stands are still there, why no focus on some of the things/dreams that you had for your life and start living them.
the answers are...it really has nothing to do with you
IB – read ImLin’s response up there ^^^^ …..YOUR H’s issues are HIS – you IB focus on YOU.
By keeping that as a HOPE but planning for a solo future, I should be OK either way.
IB – never loose HOPE – never… As Alb mentioned…act as if you will be alone. Stop fighting it…just let go IB.. Let go..
IB, everything that you are going through right now, the emotions, the feelings, the pain – all if it is normal. Be gentle on yourself and be still…what is gonna happen will happen. In God’s time IB, not ours..in HIS.
I’ll leave you with this….IB – close your eyes tonight…clear your mind…and stop for a second and think about your dreams….the dreams that you had a single IB – what did she want to do, what did she aspire to be.. All of it can be yours if you take that step…
That step….
To be YOU
YOU are exceptional…just because YOU are YOU.
You define YOU IB – no one else – just YOU.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks Lin and Eric -
Tonight / too much wine / first social outing out / only single among a table of married friends - too much / got home and broke down - SOB SOB SOB
H told oldest D that he was seeing someone / now I am broken. Told her that he hadn't filed for D because didn't have enough $$ to hire lawyer. I am broken by continuing to be told status through external conversations.
I am tired of feeling this way!
IB
I'm sorry that you are feeling the way that you are feeling. I will pray for you today.
I am tired of feeling this way!
Did you see my previous post.....are you Angry yet?
This is MLC stuff is some really hard chit to deal with IB...I know that you have heard that before BUT please keep this in mind as you go through this.
FTR - sometime that is a good thing. LOL
Your only BROKEN if YOU CHOOSE to be broken. Choose something else IB....Choose to focus on YOU.
BTW, how is the dog? Still making a mess?
Eric
Sweetie, I'm so sorry. I know this hurts.
I think I have told you this before, you really need to let your kids know that you would rather not discuss their father with them. Right now it is not something you can handle.
I want you to listen closely. YOU are not broken. You are not. You are sad and upset and discouraged. But you are not broken. He is.
And he is the only one who can fix him.
As for you, you have been dealing with a lot of tough stuff that really sucks.
But, it is what you do now that matters. And the sooner you can detach from him and his actions, the sooner you start to work on you.
Honey, you cannot change what is right now. But you can change how you deal with it. You can change how you view it.
Use this to propel you forward. Right now, you need to take care of you.
Remember that your children are watching. You want to be able to show them how to navigate through life's hurdles. You want them to see that we get knocked down, but we get back up and do what needs to be done.
You may want him in your life but you dont need him in it. You are a capable, caring, responsible, intelligent woman.
Come on now. You can do this. One moment at a time if need be.
You will be ok. I have no doubt about that at all.
Thanks all - I value the feedback / can't argue with anything posted here. I am better than this. I have survived a VERY tough week.
I receive DivorceCare Daily Emails and this week the topic has been grief. It is time for me to maneuver my way through this tunnel. And I think I am ready.
I am going to begin taking more steps to get this mess moving forward.
I know I've said it a million times - but your friendship, time, support is so appreciated. I am blessed to have found this place!
Irish,
You HAVE had a very difficult week, and came through it with dignity and your head held high. That's ALL you have to think about. And by the way, to talk to D about filing for a Divorce before speaking to you is a thoughtless, ignorant move. It's also a bunch of crap. One can get the paperwork and file for oneself online, if that is what one wants. It's all blowing smoke. Just move slowly but surely ahead as you have been.
Oh, and I know about the day after hangover. Now I have an, shall we say, adverse reaction to the chemicals in the hot tub?
Irish
You may be ready but be gently on yourself. You may have days when you feel strong, detached and just overall okay and then something will happen that makes you feel like you took a step backwards. It is very normal. Don't fight it. Feel the feelings. Allow yourself the time to be angry, hurt, feel resentful, etc. All of these feelings must be felt in order for you to move through this.
FWIW - I am proud of you! Keep being the person that Irish wants to be. Keep believing, keep praying, keep steppin...
Here is a quote for ya....
True love and peace is knowing you will spend every day, of every week, of every month, of every season, of every year for the rest of your life thinking, 'This is exactly what I want.
Thinking about what YOU want for YOU Irish....you will be happy that you did.
God Bless,
Eric
IB...maybe it is time to also tell your kids that you don't want them in the middle either...H sending his messages through the kids, even if that was not his intention, is not good for you.
So maybe when you feel strong enough to share with D the things you are learning about her dad's "illness" MLC you could share with you that since you two are not together right now you don't need, nor do you want, to know what H is sharing with them...UNLESS it is something that she needs help dealing with and you can help her...
In other words...their relationship with their father is not your business and your relatship with him is not really their business (because if there is a reconciliation they may not be approving initially)...he is seperate to all of you and connected to each of you in one way...he is their father...he is your H...right now he is not both in a healthy way to any of you...but it is what it is and you all have to work it out in your own way for your own relationship with him...
I hope that made sense...
Lin
Lin - yes that makes sense. I think even though I don't question the kids much about their dad - I have slipped at times. I will make sure to let them know that I am here for them if they are struggling with something with him but that I am going to really try begin healing myself and staying away from the drama.
This grief process is something else! I can't figure out half the time what stage I'm in - either in the grief or the LBS process. Just head down and move forward!
The end of a VERY LONG ROUGH week! What have I learned?
1. I have wonderful friends and family (including the friends on this board)
2. I feel good when I DO things around the house and with friends/family
3. Alcohol makes me feel more depressed (yes it IS possible)
4. I am avoiding taking care of myself - that ends today.
5. Grief is an overwhelming process - I will take it slow
I will have a better week!
The end of a VERY LONG ROUGH week! What have I learned?
1. I have wonderful friends and family (including the friends on this board)
2. I feel good when I DO things around the house and with friends/family
3. Alcohol makes me feel more depressed (yes it IS possible)
4. I am avoiding taking care of myself - that ends today.
5. Grief is an overwhelming process - I will take it slow
I will have a better week!
Good for you Irish. I've found that this sort of "review" helps me keep things in perspective and helps me keep moving forward.
Here's to a good week ... it will be what you make it
Peace
PEI
Irish -
Here's what I found out about alcohol this weekend. Don't mix Corona and Sangria. It took me three trys to get onto my bed.
Honestly, I agree about the alcohol, but everyone should tie one on once in awhile, while in the company of good friends, of course.
We've both had some hard lessons learned, but lived through them. Onward and upward!
Finally - a decent day! Fairly productive at work. Came home, cleaned the house, helping D buy a car, dinner, then CLEAN HOME OFFICE!!
Sad that I am not with the family in NC for niece's funeral. So strange - I remember when she was born. Just last Christmas she was here and I had a ball holding her new baby girl. Sent flowers, emailed condolence at funeral home, sent card...grieving alone - but feeling good that I at least reached out.
More good work to do...be better, do better...God's plan!
Atta girl! Whoo hoo! Now you're cookin'. LOL!
It is sad that you are not with the family, but you did the best you could by reaching out.
IB, I've told you more than once that I think you are way too hard on yourself. You are still very early into this and grieving has its own timetable.
I keep telling you this because I did the same thing for a long time and I dont want to see you do it, too. I got so many 2 x 4's early on that I went to the doctor to check for a concussion. LOL!
Really, though, you are doing wonderfully. Take each day as it comes.
You will see that slowly you learn a new way of living your life.
Hang in there!
Thanks Brooklyn - I appreciate the support. It is a completely different world than what I ever imagined it to be.
I will keep moving forward. I did not fully cry today:) - just teared up a couple of times. This is progress!!
Yep, everyday it will get a little easier.
Then you will see that this all happened for a reason.
I think your reason is you needed to find you.
Irish,
I've said before that you and I seem to progress at a similar pace. I've been feeling better and more involved this past 2 weeks than I have in forever, and that includes before H left.
You are finding yourself under everything that has been buried for 25 years of marriage. Not that it was all bad. Just that we, as women, are the fixers, the "whatever you want, dear" people. Not in all cases, but in most.
Tonight I'm becoming involved in a civic activity involving the Board of a Health Facility. Look around and see what you could care about, could become involved in outside of home and family.
It may do you a world of good.
Praying for you ( and me )
Thanks you all! The past couple of days I have been so busy at home and work that I haven't had much of a time to worry or think about H or M. H mailed me an envelope and I thought I would have a heart attack prior to opening it. It was just more receipts and benign things. I thought it would be divorce papers or letter. Thanks goodness it wasn't. Didn't need it at this point in time.
Has anyone else experienced this? Now that I know there is at least one OW - it's easier to let go. I'm not sure why - before it was the prostitutes and such - I have been in such a cesspool that it is just easier to let go. Word on the street is H has been walking around work like an arrogant jerk. Sounds like MLC to me! Saw my IC today and was asking about my difficulty in getting angry. She asked me what I thought the reason was and I said that I had really been trying to figure out if I just have a high tolerance for crazy given my upbringing or if I was anger avoidant. I am not sure yet - maybe a bit of both. Either way I have felt some moments of healing over the last couple of days that feel really good! Maybe overindulging on Saturday and sobbing my eyes out helped:)
Well - accomplished a ton today! And...no tears! This was good:)
(((IB)))
Glad you had a good day!
Thanks CW - it has been awhile!!!
Just wanted to say... hang in there! You are definitely not alone.
Crazy day - busy every moment of the day. Moments of missing H but moved through them without tears. Need to keep moving forward!
Sounds great IB! Think of the money you'll save on the weekly Kleenex bill!
Wow - am I glad this site is back. While you were gone...
H told kids he is dating a bartender! She is around his age. H never went to bars - MLC H goes to biker bars! Wake me up - who is this person???
Me? I am trying to be better...do better! I am trying to stay stable for my S and girls. I'm trying to be more productive at work. I am trying to stay busy - stay calm - stay centered. Some days I am more successful than others!
I think I am still somewhat in denial. I haven't let go emotionally yet - at least not all the way. I have made strides but not there totally yet. I wonder what it really means. Does it mean you are no longer standing? I know that I cannot engage him in conversations at this point. I am not healed enough. I worked with my IC today and she asked me why I am so afraid of getting angry with H. I really don't know exactly how to answer it - but I am convinced that no good can come from me engaging in exchanges with a sick person. Even though he may not be engaging in the phone sex hookups or PAs - he is involved with this new woman (bartender) - while he is still legally married to me.
I just want to live a clean life and enjoy my friends and family.
So that's my update...
Hope all is well with you friends!
IB
am I glad this site is back.
Ditto.
I think I am still somewhat in denial.
I don’t see you denying that your H is in a crisis
I don’t see you denying that this stuff is tough
I don’t see you denying that he has an OW
I don’t see you denying that YOU have not detached enough yet
What I do see…is you are doing the best you can.
I just want to live a clean life and enjoy my friends and family
Then just do it! You do not NEED your H to enjoy life….
Nice to see you back!
Eric
HI IRISH,
I've missed you guys so much. Even though I have been busier than a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I realized for the first time yesterday that I AM HAPPY. What's up with that?
Irish, you are not in denial, you are doing great. You know who you are, and who you want to be, something our MLC H's don't.
Get out and enjoy LIFE. There are so many things to do this time of year. I went to the Homecoming football game Friday night. First time I'd been to a game since my D24 was a cheerleader. I had a great time.
I am so, I guess the word would be, comfortable, with where I am, and you can be too. Knowing who you are is half the battle. Don't know where you are, but in two weeks I'm going to the biggest frickin Arts & Crafts Fair in the World. No schift. Wish you were here to go with me.
Hey Irish, I was thinking of you this week.
If you can picture the kind of clean life you want to live, you can live it.
Go easy on yourself, my friend. You are where you should be.
And Punkin is right, do some stuff that's fun for you. And it doesnt always have to involve your kids.
Start to imagine a life where Irish is doing things she always wanted to do. Then start to do them.
Hey Irish ... just checkin in...
You are doing so much better than you give yourself credit for
And hey, I'm a mom too ... it's very easy to get caught up in the role, but we need to remember that we are women first, and the best way to take care of the ones we love, is to take care of ourselves.
Do you you Irish ... something nice, something just for you ...
Peace
PEI
So last week I had a much better week. Found out that H does indeed have OW. In some ways it was almost a relief - I was able to detach a little more.
This week - not so much. Knowing the complete 180 his life has taken - hanging in a biker bar, etc. - is again devastating to me. I don't want these things to get to me - but I feel overwhelmed with "standing". Today I thought about this:
I am not "physically" married right now
I am not "emotionally" married right now
I am not "financially" married right now
I am "spiritually" married right now and
I am "legally" married right now.
My way of living is FAR removed from his. Is it still possible to stand this way? Who / what am I right now?
IB,
I am soo sorry that you have to deal with an OW…
Just remember that the OW IS a symptom on the problem and NOT the problem. You will probably start to beat yourself up, your self esteem may take a hit – DON’T LET IT!
You are NOT responsible for your H’s actions – HE IS.
I am not "physically" married right now
I am not "emotionally" married right now
I am not "financially" married right now
I am "spiritually" married right now and
I am "legally" married right now.
So…what does marriage mean to YOU…NOT to YOUR H, not to ME, not to YOUR family…what does it mean to you? BEFORE you can answer this one IB, you first will need to….
Who / what am I right now?
Answer this ^^^^^
Is it still possible to stand this way?
You tell me…is it? Does your love and stand come with an expectation?
What are YOUR values and beliefs? Not mine…YOUR.
IB, I am not trying to be hard on YOU…
This is YOUR time….
Take it…
Take it not to save YOUR M….
Take it to heal….
Take it to learn about yourself….
Learn who you are…away from YOUR H….
What IB is made of….
Can she do this….
You have heard this before….the answers to YOUR questions are inside of YOU….
Look the fear right in the eye….face that f’er….
The search of our soul can be painful IB – I’m not gonna lie to you. You may see things about yourself that YOU do not like. Those, my friend are the ones that you work on…NOT for YOUR H….FOR YOU…
You been through a lot these past few weeks…
You have grown and show your strength….
The urge to quit may come flying in like a tornado….
Question will be….
Will IB…quit on herself….
I think not…but what I think does not matter….it is WHAT YOU THINK.
God Bless,
Eric
Irish,
Not making light of the situation at all, but my being spiritually and legally married right now has a wonderful perk.
It pisses H the H off to be reminded of it.
Im so sorry, sweetie. Finding out about an ow is a very hard thing.
Try not to label everything. Try not to think about standing.
Just try to live your life the best way you know how. Be the best you can be. Do the things you want to do.
Let h blow in the wind right now. This is something he has to figure out on his own.
Who cares if he's with a biker chick? Not you, because you are living your life.
He needs to put the cuckoo back in the clock.
Eric is right. Do not define yourself by him.
And I will tell you what I see you are. A wonderful mom, a smart, strong woman with a huge heart and a caring soul. Someone who wants to do right in a world full of wrong.
You, IB, make this about you.
Thanks all - I definitely missed you when this site was down! Just feel like I am swimming in a world of "non-standers" - basically people who would easily recommend giving up or would be not be affected by the demise of their marriage. They are married and detached!
I watched Oprah the other day - Martha Stewart was on. She's not the one who impressed me - it was a woman who lost her husband and said that she followed Martha Stewart's crafts, etc. to honor her home. That's what I want to do - honor my family and my home. I don't want to be in a bar / I want to be having dinner with my kids and family.
So 12 hour work day. Not so bad - something productive to do. I've established a new name for my current state of being: functional devastation. I make it up everyday and get my son up and ready for school - get myself to work and try to maintain professionalism. I leave work and try to maintain structure for my son. I am trying to maintain dignity - although I think I fail miserably sometimes. I spend too much time worrying about what H thinks about me - what he doesn't think of me. If he compares me to the new woman. I feel waves of nausea still when I think of him with someone else. But I am also beginning to feel waves of anger. Not sure what I will do with it - but try to become a better, stronger woman.
Maybe someday I will feel waves of happiness!
IB,
The anger must come...for you to heal. Hard part will be not directing it at H. You may not know this but you have already directed it at yourself.
You still blame yourself for your H's actions.
You still worry about what he thinks about you.
You still are trying to do things that 1) do not upset him and 2) may get him back.
IB - change for YOU.
Maybe today is the day that you will start to feel happy.
FTR, you sound a little down..a little defeated.
Suggestion - well I really want to say a bottle of rum and cigar but I know that's not you so what I will say is this.
Your special just because your you.
You need a break..take one...
You are already strong...stronger than most - you just don't feel it right now cause ya need a break.
Scripture tells us to "look up and know that I am your God".
Look up IB
Love is kind
Love is patient
Love is long suffering...
My fav...
Love conquers all!
God Bless,
Eric
Eric,
You always seem to have a good handle on where I am. I do need a break - next week I am taking a Thursday thru Tuesday break. Just for me...no plans - just being.
Thanks for your input!
Maybe someday I will feel waves of happiness!
Not MAYBE Irish ... not MAYBE ...
You choose when sweetie ...
Peace
PEI
Irish,
Thanks for your kind thoughts on my thread. Maybe, just maybe, you and I need to truly focus on ourselves-our personal selves- and less on how it affects or doesn't affect our H's.
I know you have kids at home and that takes a great deal of time and energy, BUT make that time for yourself. They are old enough to understand and help out. What is it you are interested in that H wasn't, so you gave it up? For me, truly, it was my friends. Except for the last two years when things were falling apart, I had very little to do with friends I'd had since school. Take a Zumba class. Take a boxing class ( that might come in handy) jog. Volunteer at the local hospital.
I know there is a world of things you liked and let go of because of your H. We all do. We call it compromise. They call it winning. It's not too late to plan a Halloween party, or to make plans to attend one, either. Dress sexy. Jessica Rabbit. I'd dress sexy for mine but I'm sure my grandchildren wouldn't understand.
You know what I mean. Last night I needed a kick in the a$$. I got one. Get out there and make some fabulous and slightly illegal plans. Have FUN.
Sorry, hit post twice!!! Little too much coffee.
Boy do I need the weekend!
So I was supposed to take S to the knee doctor today. Had asked H earlier in the week if we could begin to alternate dr. appt's with S. He said yes. So I took s on Monday, H took on Weds., so I was to take today.
H texts today that he is not going to miss today's appt. because S might have to have another surgery and be done playing ball and he wasn't going to miss it.
So S calls me and says "mom - don't go - I'll be alright - don't be around him" So I don't go. H texts me and says "sorry to hear you won't go - I think we need to get to the point where we are ok being around each other for the kids."
I reply - "I tried that in the beginning. I have too much to day to day to deal with to take care of what's left of our family. I don't make these decisions without input from the kids"
H - "I respect that. I still feel we need to move in that direction so the kids can get the best of both of us."
Me - "You have said that we are not our best when we are together. I am respecting your opinion. Please do not contact me anymore unless it is an emergency. Thank you"
H (later on) - fyi...i may be applying for car loans in my name today."
Me - "plural?? At this point isn't any debt considered both of our responsibilities?
H - "one car - if I do it in my name and it is after I have moved out and I agree to pay for it I think it would be my responsibility - i will take insurance too."
Me - "thanks for the information"
People - this man lives in la la land. I feel as if I am poisoned every time I hear from him. However, I have continued to not challenge him because I do not want to engage with sickness.
Am I handling this right? Someone once told me there are no "right" answers but there are "wrong" answers. Am I setting boundaries or poking the tiger?
I wish I could give you an honest answer. Poking the tiger-to to my way of thinking. Wrong answer? Only insomuch as your name is not on the loan in any way, shape, form or fashion. Do you have an attorney yet? It's a good question for him. My D is going through this right now with her H. He bought a travel trailer, and even though her name is not on it, they keep hounding her about payments. Wish I had better advice.
So you think I am antagonizing him? I am just so unclear on what I should and shouldn't say.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant to say Poking the tiger - NOT to my way of thinking.
Again, a thousand apologies, that is not what I meant to say at all. And this is coming from someone who doesn't poke the tiger. I give him a swift kick in the rear.
Thanks Punkin -
-
Somedays I just get overwhelmed!
Irish, here's the thing. When making a decision about how to deal with your h, it has to be what is best for you. It has to feel "right" to you. It doesnt matter how you think he might take it, or if he gets angry or whatever his deal is. What matters is you do what you feel comfortable with.
If it bothers you to speak with him, then dont. Not as a tactic, though, ya know?
I will tell you that from someone looking in from the outside you sound as if you are trying to make him feel guilty and that you are overwhelmed.
From a db standpoint, it's best to show him your strong self. It's also best to validate his feelings.
Aslo, I know that you were probably trying to get a point across. He doesnt hear you. He hears, ok there goes IB pointing fingers and not getting what I mean.
Here's what I've learned. I dont want my h or anyone for that matter to think I am not capable because I am.
So, maybe next time that he says we need to try to get past this so we could both be there for the kids, you dont answer his text or you text, Ok, I understand what you are saying.
The thing about going dark is you just do it. You dont tell him not to call you or contact you. You just live your life. If you feel like he texts you something that needs answering, you do. If you dont, you dont.
Going dark has to be because you need it.
And IB, in my state, any loans or debt h accrues as long as we are still married is half mine. Doesnt matter if I know about it, doesnt matter if its in his name. So please be careful here.
And here's how I always felt about this and my son. While it affects him without a doubt, it is between my h and me. And I always had my son's best interest in the back of my head. So when I was strong enough, I made it as easy on him as I could. And for him, that was having his father and I civil to each other whenever we are all together. And I have never, in three years, said a bad word about his dad.
So, sweetie, I hope some of this helps.
Hang in there.
I don't disagree with your feedback Brooklyn. There are definitely times in the past when I would have wanted him to feel guilty - that's not what I was wanting this time. What I really want is to demonstrate that I am strong and capable - but that I don't choose to be around him at this time.
I don't talk bad about him to the kids - or for that matter anyone else. What I really want is to just heal - to not be exposed to any of the b.s.
IB
What I really want is to just heal - to not be exposed to any of the b.s.
It will come IB...it will come...
healing takes time so don't rush it. Try not to PUSH your way to "feel" like you are healed. It will happen when God says it's time to happen.
Eric
Today I am struggling...
H texted me saying he wanted to come over and look for paperwork. I asked him to let me find it for him and to please not come here.
He said "I'm trading in the car and I need the title"
I said - "I will try to find it and text you - please do not come here"
He waits and then texts "Never mind I've ordered another title"
I reply "I've been looking for it the entire time and can't find it"
He texts "thanks for trying"
Benign - yes. And I know that everyone says that I need to present as if I am strong and capable, etc. But I cannot see him right now. I am not healed and I spend every minute of every day trying to pretend I am. I go to work - I keep the house and the family going - but when I am alone (which is quite a bit these days) I can't seem to get over the sadness, hurt at what has happened - nor can I move myself beyond the comparisons to OW. I don't even know who she is - but she is in his arms and I am not. The losses keep piling up and as the kids move forward and he moves on I am alone. When will I get to the place where I won't feel this any longer? Why do I keep asking if I deserved this somehow? Why do I feel like I am the crazy one and he is sane? Why do I avoid taking care of myself - why don't I think I am worth it? Why won't I just give up, give in, let go, - why do I keep pushing myself - why am I so hard on myself - why don't I feel worthy? Why am I so tired - why do I feel guilty for everything - why do I think he is wrong? Why do I believe we had a wonderful friendship - something really special that everyone saw? Why wasn't I enough for him? Why will he never consider coming home? Why has he done a 180? Why does he shun religion? Why can't I get angry - REALLY angry? What will my life look like? Will I be alone if I stand? Am I pathetic, foolish, a doormat?
I'm having a tough day...
Why do I keep asking if I deserved this somehow? Why do I feel like I am the crazy one and he is sane? Why do I avoid taking care of myself - why don't I think I am worth it? Why won't I just give up, give in, let go, - why do I keep pushing myself - why am I so hard on myself - why don't I feel worthy? Why am I so tired - why do I feel guilty for everything - why do I think he is wrong? Why do I believe we had a wonderful friendship - something really special that everyone saw? Why wasn't I enough for him? Why will he never consider coming home? Why has he done a 180? Why does he shun religion? [b]Why can't I get angry - REALLY angry?[b] What will my life look like? Will I be alone if I stand? Am I pathetic, foolish, a doormat?
I'm having a tough day...
(((Irish)))
These days are tough. No doubt about it at all.
When you are ready, you've given yourself a great place to work from ... start looking at the questions I've bolded and start digging deep within yourself to answer them. This is where YOUR journey really begins ...
Be kind to yourself Irish.
Peace,
PEI
What will my life look like?
Create it Irish ... for you ... don't wait for it to happen TO you.
Peace,
PEI
Irish -
Does it help to know that I have thought the exact same things on my really bad days? That tomorrow will be another day and it has the chance of being a good day?
Having these horrible days, IMO make the good days even sweeter because you appreciate it so much more.
Choose to be happy or choose to be sad. It really is your choice alone to make.
Have you seen Eric thread on "what am I thankful for?" if not, go there and really think about what is wonderful in your life instead what sucks. I actually cried when I wrote my list of what I was thankful for - it made me feel so good.
Hugs and this is me sending you my strength~~~~~~~~~~ :-)
whoops, I see now that you have already posted on the "thankful" thread! But as I was reading that list of yours, I thought that you have so many wonderful things going for you right now!
Read your list, then read it again!
Thanks TAMF - I appreciate your input. I do need to keep reminding myself!
IB
IB FWIW, so am I sweetie…so am I.
Dealing with someone in a crisis is tough. Really tough. I have been doing this for a little over a year now and I am embarrassed to say that some days I still struggle.
So be gentle on yourself. Please…
I am not healed and I spend every minute of every day trying to pretend I am.
You may not see it NOW…BUT you are healing. It is a slow process and so although you think you are “prentending”, your really not. You are feeling this, which IS a MUST in order for you to truly heal. I can only imagine the pain that you feel.
I can still remember the pain…GOD…I wanted to die. Not sure if I ever said this to you – but by the grace of God and my best friend I did not end my life. I wanted to. I really wanted to. I can still remember the day…I jumped in my jeep. I had just found out that my wife was fu*king her supervisor (she had just started the job and had just ended an EA with some guy in NJ). I had not slept all night. I cried and cried. I prayed and nothing helped. I started to drive…and I still till this day do not remember how I ended up where I was, which was in front of the Farmington River in CT. I parked the jeep and stared at the water. I remember falling asleep and I was awoken by my cell phone. It was my mother in law. I broke down, I was trembling – I felt like less of a man – I felt defeated. Why Oh GOD was this happening. Did I not satisfy my wife, was I inadequate as a man. Fuc* I hurt.. I remember my mother in law starting to cry. She prayed with me. I hung up and really can say that I did not feel any better. I called my best friend and asked if I could come over. I composed myself and on the drive over I made a decision to end my life. I would ask my friend for his gun (was gonna tell him I need to go shooting in the wood to relief some stress). So I drove over, he looked at me and said “dude ya look like chit”. I remember saying…Oh I’m okay – hey dude I wanted to borrow your gun and go shooting in the woods. He looked at me, with this look, a look that said he knew what I was planning. He said NO. I try to convince him to lend me the gun. He stood his ground and said no (and FTR, I can be pretty convincing). I broke down and started to cry. He almost did too. I felt like such a failure. I felt so bad….I wanted to die. I wanted the pain to go away. Later on that day, my FIL called me to tell me that he loved me.
So IB, I know of the pain that you may be feeling. I know of the fear. I know of the hopelessness. What I want to say to you…is this…the above event happened about 8 months ago.
IB, you will have these moments of struggle – do not give in to them. Feel them and then let them go.
nor can I move myself beyond the comparisons to OW. I don't even know who she is - but she is in his arms and I am not
IB – honestly, I can only say this about OW….she couldn’t lick the dog chit off of your shoes. She is garbage – BUT she is NOT the problem. She is only a symptom and FTR, I know that this does not make you feel better. Do you know what should….
Knowing who YOU are. Knowing and living YOUR life. Ah…easier said then done. I know. BUT doable non the less.
When will I get to the place where I won't feel this any longer?]/quote]
I will not blow smoke up your butt and tell you that this will happen in time. No – It didn’t work for me when someone said it. You will no longer feel this way….
When a few things happen
When it is time
When YOU realize the beauty that is IB
When YOU realize why YOU are really standing (this may not make sense yet – it will soon.)
[quote]Why do I keep asking if I deserved this somehow?
I was abandoned as a kid by BOTH parents. For a long time, I blamed myself as a matter of fact my abandonment played a role in my M – ‘cept I didn’t know it. I can tell this….YOU DID NOT DERSERVE this. NOR did your H. He did not wake up one day and say..today I think I will have a crisis. Neither of you did. What you are doing is normal. You are blaming yourself for HIS MLC.
IB, I can tell you all day it is not your fault BUT YOU must begin to realize this.
Why do I avoid taking care of myself –
Because YOUR depressed honey. Do you know what depression is? Anger TURN inward. Your afraid IB, afraid to be angry at YOUR H. Do you know why? ‘Cause, when that anger comes…so will YOUR strength…
Why can't I get angry - REALLY angry?
You are angry…BUT as I said above, your are directing that anger towards yourself.
Again…the anger will show you YOUR strength…..And it is scary to be strong. It is much easier to be weak…
why don't I think I am worth it?
Why won't I just give up, give in, let go, -
why do I keep pushing myself –
why am I so hard on myself –
why don't I feel worthy?
Why am I so tired –
why do I feel guilty for everything –
why do I think he is wrong?
Why do I believe we had a wonderful friendship –
Why wasn't I enough for him?
I could probably answer these for YOU …but then that would be me being IB…
Can you do me a favor? It is all I ask IB…Can you take the above questions and try to answer them for ME…not for YOU…for me. CAN YOU PLEASE.
Why will he never consider coming home?
Why has he done a 180?
Why does he shun religion?
He..he…he…he…
He…he..he…he…
Honestly IB, F “he” right now.
What will my life look like?
Whatever you want it to…but before you figure that out…answer the questions above.
Will I be alone if I stand?
Hey…I’m not chop liver here….<insert picture of Eric smiling with his pearly whites> - Your not alone IB…not alone at all. Look up, keep your faith…read the book of James…
Am I pathetic, foolish, a doormat?
Only IF you feel you are.
Hey IB….let me ask you another question….do YOU think I am a doormat?
Listen, sweetie…we have all had these bad days.. they will pass. Take a look at your kids tonight. Your not a failure IB.
Not a failure in the least bit. Matter of fact, your actually stronger than me!
God Bless,
Eric
Eric -
I don't know what to say...I am sobbing by your response. Thank you for your kindness, support, and care.
I do need to answer these questions.
I will do better and be better.
Thank you!
IB
IB,
Your not alone...I'm crying with ya.
Your a hell of a mom IB
Yes you will be BETTER - that much I can promise you BUT only IF
You answer the questions.....
Not for me IB...for you honey...for you.
God Bless
Eric
Oh Irish,
If I had a nickel for everytime I've asked myself those same questions, I could buy Donald Trump a better toupee'. We all lose our focus at one time or another. I do it a lot, but keep it hidden under an air of invincibiity, except on these boards.
We've spent so much of our lives taking care of our H's, that any dissatisfaction/unhappiness on their part seems a reflextion on us. And that's just BS. Throwing their guilt off on us is just part of their pattern.
I know this is not part of DB'ng, but get out your needlework and embroider yourself a little wall art. "Living well is the best revenge" I have one that says "I'd rather be alone the rest of my life than with someone who makes me feel less than special."
He will notice you are moving along toward the future resolutely and with confidence. By that time, though, you may not GAD.
(HUGS)
Punkin -
Thanks...I do believe that living well is the best revenge - my middle D texted me last night and said "I miss our family so much - I just don't know what can replace that." It breaks my heart because I know all 3 kids feel the same way.
I was re-reading "Hope for the Separated - Healing Wounded Marriages" by Gary Chapman. He says that marriages separate from one of three sources:
1. lack of an intimate relationship with God
2. lack of an intimate relationship with your mate
3. lack of an intimate understanding and acceptance of yourself
He says the first and last can be handled on your own - the second requires involvement of your spouse. MLC - in my book - throws all 3 of these things out the window. I don't even feel as if I'm dealing with anything normal.
I found a new site called "Midlife Maze" - it reaffirmed all that we already know - but it certainly is not very hopeful.
A marriage crisis at midlife can have numerous causes, here are five common signs that it’s a Midlife Marriage Crisis.
1.The Announcement
He may be quiet, moody or withdrawn for some time and then one day come out and tell you that he loves you, but is no longer in love with you. He may say he doesn’t want to hurt you. He may say tell you that it is him and not you, or may say he has felt this way for a long time or even that he NEVER really loved you. Whichever way he puts it, he is questioning what the marriage means to him and why he is in it.
He is absolutely right on one thing – it IS him and it is NOT you. In a Midlife Crisis a man knows instinctively that something is terribly wrong, he feels lost, he feels a hole inside himself. He does not know though, WHAT is wrong and so he starts looking around for what the cause might be. It really is nothing to do with you personally and you will fare better if you can remember that.
He knows that life the way it is isn’t working for him, so he starts to believe that he must change things in order to be happy. He doesn’t see that its not the outer circumstances that need to change, but inner work that needs to be done. So if he’s looking for circumstances he might change and searching for an outer cause to his unhappiness, then there is a simple equation he sees:
If Life + Wife = Unhappy Then perhaps Life – Wife = Happy
It’s not the sturdiest logic in the world, but we are talking about a man who is so desperate to ease his pain that he will take whatever he can come up with!
2.Avoiding or Refusing Responsibilities
He may begin to resent his responsibilities or he may simply want to escape from them. He may begin to avoid the responsibilities that go with being a husband, a father, a businessman or employee. He may decide he wants to escape the life he has created altogether, or he may throw financial responsibility out of the window as he finds it too restrictive.
Men In a Midlife Crisis are reacting against the life they have created. They find themselves lost and hurting and so they look at all the aspects of their lives that might be causing this pain. Married men do carry a lot of responsibility and it is conditioned and ingrained into them that this is what they must do.
Part of a Midlife Crisis is the realization of his own mortality, he has a finite amount of time left and he is no longer sure he wants to spend it shouldering responsibilities he's not sure he even values. Many feel that they have done all that is expected of them and yet still they find themselves so miserable. So why continue to shoulder the responsibilities when time is running out anyway?
If he understood this at a conscious level and could express it, you might be better able to at least understand, unfortunately however all the wife usually sees is a man who just doesn’t care anymore. If he feels he can’t or doesn’t want to live up to the responsibilities of the life you have created between you, then you will be heading into a Midlife Marriage Crisis.
3.Blaming you
Blame can be a huge factor in a Midlife Marriage Crisis.
A man in Midlife Crisis really doesn’t know what is causing his pain and dissatisfaction. He is in Crisis rather than ‘Transition’ because he is unwilling or unable to do the inner work and introspection required to evaluate his life so far and make adjustments in order to move forward into the second half of his life.
Since he won’t look inwards to find the cause, he has to look outwards and the first thing he sees is….. YOU! Therefore, the thinking can go, this is all your fault.
Once he has grasped this as a possible explanation for why he feels so bad, he may almost feel relieved that he has identified the cause. He may then begin to amass ‘evidence’ in order to support his theory. You may hear phrase such as
“ You always……” or “You never…..”
as he generalizes your behavior in order to justify to himself that you are in fact to blame.
If he is starting to blame you for all that is going wrong, then you need to remember two things:
a.You are probably headed for a very bumpy Midlife Marriage Crisis
b.Most importantly, you are NOT to blame
Listen to him and accept that, for now, he may believe that what he is saying is true, BUT you shouldn’t believe that it is. Please don’t take ownership of his Crisis, it’s not your fault. You need to take care of yourself , not join with him in blaming yourself.
4.Rewriting History
This ties in with blaming you and your marriage for his unhappiness. He is subconsciously gathering evidence to support his theory that all his pain is due to the fact that he chose to be married to you. Although he wants to be ‘right’ in having identified the source of his problems, he does not want to consider that he was wrong in his previous decisions (i.e. the decision to marry you). And so he changes the reasons that he made those decisions.
He may have told you every day for the last 15, 20 or more years, that he loved you and now he says that he never really loved you. This is simply what he is choosing to believe right now. He doesn’t realize that he has any self work to do, instead he is choosing to believe that he made a poor decision in marrying you. However, he doesn’t even want to take the responsibility for having made a bad decision. So instead he claims he just didn’t love you, but had some noble reason to marry you anyway, or somehow you tricked him into it, or societal or family pressure ‘made’ him do it.
When he starts rewriting history it can come as a huge shock to you and you may begin to question yourself and whether you just never understood reality. He may believe what he is saying, but you don’t have to. See it for what it is and don’t torture yourself by accepting his new version of events when it contradicts many years of shared experience.
5.He becomes Secretive
The fifth sign that your Midlife Crisis Man is dashing headlong towards a Midlife Marriage Crisis is when he becomes secretive with you. When he becomes secretive it is because he has painted you in his mind as the enemy. He feels he has to hide things from you because you will not understand. At this point he could well be right!
Secrecy between marriage partners does not make for a healthy marriage. However, if he is already questioning the validity of your marriage and has made himself his own number one priority, then he no longer feels the need or desire to input to the health of the marriage.
He may simply be closing you out because he knows that you will try to talk ‘your’ kind of reason and logic to him and he knows that won’t sit well with his current beliefs.
Unfortunately it is also quite likely that the secrecy may be hiding an affair. When any husband feels that his wife doesn’t understand him, he is more prone to having an affair. When he is in a Midlife Crisis, has let go of all his old values AND feels that his marriage may be the cause of his unhappiness, he is even more likely to have an affair.
Secrecy doesn’t necessarily mean he is having an affair, but it is definitely a possibility to be aware of. Secrecy does mean though that he is closing you out of his life. He does not feel the trust or the shared bond that you used to have. Whatever it is that he feels he needs to keep from you, you could well be headed into a Midlife Marriage Crisis.
*******************************
None of these signs in themselves are concrete affirmations that you are headed for a MLMC, there can be many causes for each of these behaviours. However, you are reading about MLC for a reason, follow your instincts and remember to take care of yourself. You cannot control your husband, you are not responsible for his Crisis or for the outcome, but you are responsible for taking care of yourself and your own well being.
Regardless of what any of this "is" or "isn't" / I have to heal - REALLY heal if I am ever going to have a chance at a good new life.
Sweetie, while I know it is very important for us to try to understand MLC, please don't get stuck on wanting that too much.
It is something that we really cant understand unless we are in one.
So, you know that he is in crisis. You know that you cannot do anything about changing that for him.
Really and truly, the only thing you can do is let him figure it out, love him from a distance and begin your own journey towards healing and peace.
I agree with Brooklyn. We could read books and try to understand MLC, but that would be almost like trying to understand the workings of God. Some things just are. We have to stop focusing on what is making them tick and let God have them. We need to focus on US.
You are right Brooklyn and I know that I am doing that too much - probably to avoid answering my own issues. This absolute lack of self-worth I carry around is deadly. Someone said yesterday that I do get angry but that I turn it all inward - like I am the one who is responsible for this whole mess. Every single flaw of mine I have turned into a valid justification for his appalling, disrespectful actions. I have refused to acknowledge his flaws - instead choosing to "soften" his antisocial craziness into "quirky" or "eccentricities". I bring the hammer down on me - my flaws are FAILINGS - because I should know better - I should be better.
Nauseating!
IB,
I went and took a quick scan of the Midlife Maze site you were referring to.
Yep, it seems to be stuff we already know for the most part. Please don't get discouraged when you read sites like that because I believe they probably go on the premise that most people whose spouses do this just give up and do not even give the thought of trying to outlast the MLC.
I do believe if you want to try and outlast it and possibly have a chance to R your M you need to understand what you're dealing with.
For me at least, understanding MLC has made detaching easier. While you're never going to know why the MLCer does most of the things they do if you realize it's all part of the crisis it's easier to not take it personally.
When you accept that you are not to blame for your H's MLC, it's easier to do this...
the only thing you can do is let him figure it out, love him from a distance and begin your own journey towards healing and peace.
Wise words from Brooklyn.
Well - another weekend passes and I don't seem to be any better off than I was 4 months ago when H left. I make it through the weekdays pretty well - but the weekends are lonely and I find myself depressed. I accomplish some things - but not as much as I should. I often feel lost. There are times when I just can't believe how easily he has disposed of me. There are times when I can't believe all of the horrendous infidelities that he engaged in - that he disclosed to me - and that he has absolutely NO remorse. So...
I need to begin to answer the questions that I have been avoiding. I want to begin to dream again - have a vision for what I want.
I want to heal...
IB,
Really and truly, the only thing you can do is let him figure it out, love him from a distance and begin your own journey towards healing and peace.
This quote from Brooklyn says it all.
Your H embarked on his journey and as the LBS you must embark on YOURS.
What you will come to learn about yourself can change you in ways that you would have never imagined. You though have to take that first step. No one can take it for you.
You may feel alone but I can tell you that really you are not. God really is with you.
IB, I want to tell you that although you feel this way and may not ready to hear this…everything you are going through is pretty normal. Many of us have been through these emotions. They will pass IF you allow them to.
When I first came here, I place my W on a pedestal and took the blame for everything. FTR, sometime I still catch myself doing it. Then I realized that I ONLY needed to take responsibility to my failures in the R. Not hers. It is not my responsibility to “help” her take ownership of her issues – that job falls to God.
There will come a time when you realize that YOU did not put a gun to your H’s head to make him do what he is doing.
probably to avoid answering my own issues.
It’s scary to look inside yourself…so be gentle with yourself. You may see things that you do not like about yourself. Those are things that you work on. Now having said this, you also need to look at the GOOD in YOU. Many times we focus on all of the things that we need to work on and we loose sight of the good things about yourself. So, I would write down some of the areas of improvement you want to work on AND write down some of your strength. Chit ya work 12 hours a day…so obviously “work ethic” is a strength of yours. You are also a great MOM by evidence of your posts. You are also….ready……a wonderfully loving person! Okay…okay…so how can I say this not knowing you personally. Well in my book any one that would endure this much pain, still love their spouse and still want the marriage to work – well they are a “wonderfully loving person” in my book.
This absolute lack of self-worth I carry around is deadly.
Yes it is. One of the reasons is that you continue to FOCUS on your M and YOUR H. We tell you to detach and GAL because what will happen is that you will begin to feel better about yourself when you are having fun (GAL) AND you will not have your H’s bullchit to deal with (Detach).
every single flaw of mine I have turned into a valid justification for his appalling, disrespectful actions.
Wow – IB, a little anger in that sentence. That’s good. Anger is good when used properly BUT we can talk about that a little later on.
I have refused to acknowledge his flaws - instead choosing to "soften" his antisocial craziness into "quirky" or "eccentricities".
1) your H is in a crisis so he will be quirky and antisocial – especially with you.
2) Should you focus on his quirks or yours? (hint – who’s can you control?)
Know what’s stopping you? Hint first letter is F, the last letter is R (F_ _ R)
I don't seem to be any better off than I was 4 months ago when H left
Really? Think about this statement for a sec….
4 months ago, ya probably would have not even been able to weekdays.
but the weekends are lonely and I find myself depressed. I accomplish some things - but not as much as I should. I often feel lost.
One of the things that works for me is writing down a list of the stuff that I would like to do. I also try and do something that I really love to do. So IB, what really puts a smile on your face?
I just can't believe how easily he has disposed of me.
Change how you look at things. Yeah you can say he disposed of you OR you can say that God helped take him out of your life so he can fix this CRAZY AS* MLC CHIT that he is going through.
I need to begin to answer the questions that I have been avoiding.
Yes you do. If ya don’t answer these questions I swear I will pay Punkin to go pay you a visit when she’s angry and trust me…ya don’t want to see spunky punky angry. LOL
I want to begin to dream again
You will WHEN you finally make a CHOICE to start to.
Chin up and ((((hugs))))
You’re actually doing better than you think.
God Bless,
Eric
IB - you are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for! It pains me to see you so depressed. This too will pass with time. try not to dwell on it - put that stop sign up in your mind and watch a movie (NOT A MOVIE ON LIFETIME! that station would kill any one of us right now!)read a crime novel, take a walk with a friend and have them talk about thier problems so you don't have to think about yours. Friends always start to tell me what problems they are having and then they stop and say, "oh I am sorry! Here I am rambling on about my stupid problems and you have your situation!" I just laugh and say THANK GOD i am not alone! keep talking so I can stop thinking about my life right now!
I am thinking about you - take care
Irish,
Lets you and me be honest here. Weekends are a biotch. A complete waste of breath and time and space. UNTIL, you decide to get out and do something on those weekends. I started with church on Sunday, then the local Homecoming Football Game with friends. Had a blast. Now a regular Friday night thing. Moved onto rental movie and homemade dinner with friends on Saturday night.
Sometimes I go to bed at night on a weekend and think,"Well, I wonder what H did this weekend?" Then roll over and go to sleep because it really doesn't matter. I had a good weekend. His is up to him.
These are all suggestions that worked for me. You have to find your own entertainments. I know you have friends. I know you have things you enjoy doing. Maybe try some new ones you never did before and discover you do like them. Start living your life for yourself and stop looking over your shoulder to see if he is watching. LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOU. You are not to blame here.
You have all sorts of strength inside that you seem afraid to let out.
Please don't feel I'm whipping you with a wet noodle. I don't mean to be. I've just re discovered how to enjoy my life and I want to share it with you. YOU CAN. YOU ARE STRONG.
Have a good day, Irish, I'll catch you on the flip side.
Check the laws in your state regarding loans...some states that are community property states...unless you have a LEGAL seperation you are equally responsible for all debts aquired by either of you...meaning that just because he did it without you (or as in my case, without my even knowing) does not excuse you from the debt collectors...
A LEGAL seperation will protect you...if your state has that, if not I would contact an attorney asap and stop him from buying the car if you can...unless of course you want a new car down the road?
I haven't been around much because one of my best friends and my rock when my H went through his MLC just told me over a week ago that her H walked out...they have 3 boys...I have been helping her
I think I have to file today because my h is getting into a lot of debt and there is no other way to protect me and my sons future in my state. Any suggestions? I am so sad that i have to do this but have no choice. Advice would be greatly appreciated. my appt is at 430pm today.
If you are filing a legal seperation, it's not the end of the world, just a wall to protect you and your kids from his negative financial practices.
You don't have to file for anything any more complicated or final than that if that is not what you want to do.
Take care of #1 ((HUGS))
Rysmom
I agree with Pumkin.
Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your son.
Good luck
Eric
They dont have legal separation in my state or I would. The only way to protect lawyer said is file for D. I am so upset over this. I dont know if I shoud do it or not. I dont want to but Im afraid im going ot lose my house becuase of his debt.
Okay, so you have to file D? Do it. It can sit and grow mold on a shelf unless someone pushes, and I assume you are not going to do that, right?
In my state, people often, married or not, put ads in the classifieds of the local papers saying " I_______________an responsible for any debt made other than by myself. Somehow, this seems to protect them to some extint.
Sorry you have to do this. I know it's painful.
Rysmom
First you need to calm down. It this panic fearful state you will be more incline to react in fear, which will do you no good.
1) You will be fine no matter what. YOU need to believe this. I can't believe it for you.
2) You will live. This will not kill you nor will it kill your son. Will is suck? Yes BUT only if you allow it to.
3) Now is the time for you to think about YOU. That is not selfish - it is reality.
4) If you are concerned that you may loose your house then file for the D.
As Punkin said a divorce usually takes some time. It is not like you will walk into court and get a quickie divorce. So time is on your side.
Look rysmom - you are scared and that is understandable. In order for you to make it through this you will need to face YOUR fears. Look those fu*kers right in the eye and face them.
A divorce, if it comes to that is NOT the end. It can be the begining BUT only if you allow it to.
Stay strong and do what you must to protect yourself.
God Bless,
Eric
thanks for your reply. I am really undecided what to do. we have two houses one is paid off and the other one I owe 200,000 on. I was thinking maybe I could file for d but not have him served the papers yet he would not know I had filed. I dont think I would be responsible for any debt he incurs after today if I do that. My lawyer keeps pushing for d and I don't like that.
Rysmom
I am really undecided what to do.
Maybe this is the problem.
Fear will paralyze you
Lack of control will make you second quess your every move
Rysmom,
What do you want really? What do you hope to gain in your life. Who is Rysmom? Who is she when the going get tough, when the H is a fu*king as*hole, who is this person. Find that and everything that you are worried about, all the questions you have will be answered.
Maybe this is not the answer you wanted. I can sit here and tell you what I would do but fu*k that's me NOT YOU.
So what do YOU really want Rysmom...oh...and that YOU can control.
My lawyer keeps pushing for d and I don't like that.
Do they work for you or you for them?
Also, I do not believe that you can file AND not have him served. Your L should be able to advice.
One last point...you are trying to control this sitch and you do not want your life to change. This is killing you and driving you crazy. I hate to say, your life has already changed and will change again in the future. It is after all the natrual progression of life. Change happens. How we deal with it is what is really important. Fight it and you create stress and havoc in your life. Go with it...well then you may start to deal with it.
It is easier to swim against the current or with it?
Eric
I have been doing really well GAL but can't have true peace of mind worrying about my financial future. But then again the thought of h marrying ow would kill me too. They were looking at wedding rings a month ago. I know i have to put things in gods hands but worry about money especially in this economy.
I didnt speak to h for 1 month the longest for me. I called him last week and told him i needed $ because he wasnt giving me money because he took it all out of his business acct. to buy the 30.000 car. I said you can buy your fu ckin girlfriend dinner every night , I said im sure you are planning the hoes birthday dinner too,i want my money. He said I dont care about that. in the past he would say this when he was thinking of leaving her. I dont know what he is thinking. He answered his phone right away when he saw it was me calling because i didnt call for so long. He almost seemed happy that I called
Rysmom,
I suggest that you start your own thread as to not continue to hijack IB’s.
but can't have true peace of mind worrying about my financial future
worry about money especially in this economy
A slave cannot serve TWO masters. Money or your soul? – You choose.
I know i have to put things in gods hands
Knowing and doing are TWO different things. When I knew no better I did no better. Now that I know better I do better. And better is…..
I said you can buy your fu ckin girlfriend dinner every night
said im sure you are planning the hoes birthday dinner too
…NOT this ^^^^^
Damn Rysmom are you pissed off.
Your chiting bricks trying to hold on to something that is already gone.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say…fuc* it file for the D. Show his as*!
You want him back right…well I am sure that once he sees the D papers he will just snap right out of it. He will come around to his senses. Chit who would not want to be with someone that speaks to him the way YOU do.
Let him go Rysmom – go find a way to release all the anger you have. Chit…I’m even tempted to tell you to go get some – just kidding of course.
Being an LBS sucks big time…….IF YOU LET IT CONSUME you.
Figure out if you want to be a slave of worry, fear and money OR
If you really want to be a slave to happiness, fun and LOVE….
That Love starts with a LOVE of YOURSELF.
Eric
Sorry for interuption IB. Hope you are doing ok.
Actually, and FYI...the add in the paper stating that you are not longer responsible does not hold water in court if a collection company pursues you (in a community property state) UNLESS you have a legal separation or file for D...
If you file for D...you MUST serve the other person or it isn't "filed" which means you didn't go through with it and so nothing will happen.
You can file...and you can keep asking for an extension...I did this and extended my D for well over a year...before dismissing it.
But if I had to file and go through with a D to protect my family...I would do in it in a NY minute!
No worries about the hijack - I could use the distraction:)
Another long day at work - but no tears. Met with IC today and we talked about my continual internalization of blame. The bottom-line, is that I have always felt H saved me from a life of addiction and co-dependency. Of irresponsibility and poverty. I have never given myself credit that I might have succeeded on my own. Maybe he had a hard time being up on that pedestal. So he jumped off with both feet! He is reaching out to our S - wanting him to come and stay at the hotel overnight. S told him ok, but he isn't thrilled about going. I have encouraged S to follow his heart.
At 47 I am having a lot of anxiety of wasting time. I know the 2x4s will be coming out - only I can make the changes - only I can make things better for myself - but I am struggling with feelings of hopelessness and exhaustion. I listened to Joel Osteen last night and he talked about where you find your value. That you shouldn't find it in other people, or work, etc. - your value should come from God. I want to get to this place.
IB,
Don't get yourself down. This stuff is hard. Very hard. Taking a look at ourselves, TRULY looking, is difficult. And it's even harder to take steps towards addressing our issues. But it sounds like you're on the right track. Working with an IC and your self-evaluation are all good things. It's OK to be down about things as long as you are continually moving forward. Each day becomes easier than the last. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Alb! As always, rationally I know I am moving forward - emotionally it hurts like he**!
IB,
Did you have to work 12 hours again? I’m worried about you. Remember you need some fun time too. You also need to take care of yourself and try not to burn the candle at both ends.
GOOD!
The bottom-line, is that I have always felt H saved me from a life of addiction and co-dependency. Of irresponsibility and poverty.
1) Co-dependency is a behavior that can be changed!
2) Poverty or potential poverty can be changed!
3) Irresponsibility can be changed!
The changes must come from YOU.
This putting your H on a pedestal is quite normal. I did the same and hey, FTR, I still catch myself doing it. This is a process IB and need to go thru all of the stages in order to truly heal. You may have put your H on a pedestal because you lost yourself in the M, it may have been your past. Either way, he is not better nor worse than you.
I have never given myself credit that I might have succeeded on my own.
Now we are talking Irish! I too gave my wife the credit for everything in my life. It bullchit. You accomplished much in your life. You did. You may not see it but you did. AND if you need help figuring one area of success in your life that YOU did…..take a look at your kids!
As you go through this and search yourself you will begin to realize the potential that exists in YOU and always HAS.
So he jumped off with both feet!
That is one way to look at it. Another way is that
He was co-dependant also
He lost himself/identity in the M
And then
His crisis hit!
He is reaching out to our S - wanting him to come and stay at the hotel overnight. S told him ok, but he isn't thrilled about going. I have encouraged S to follow his heart.
It could be guilt, it could be him reconnecting. It could be a lot of things. Right now, none of that really matters. IMO, your role is to be a parent to YOUR kids. His role is the same, how he chooses to do that is his choice. As for your kids, your son is oldest enough to make up his own mind. Try to stay out of the R between your son and H.
At 47 I am having a lot of anxiety of wasting time.
I’m 41 so together that makes us 89! LOL
Is finally working on those issues that you identified and wanted to change a “waste of time”?
I know the 2x4s will be coming out –
No 2x4 from me. You know what you need to do and you will do it when you are darn ready to do it.
only I can make the changes - only I can make things better for myself –
Let’s simplify this ^^^^^ - how about you can only make yourself happy RIGHT NOW. I am not talking about in the future – no this very second. Just today. Your H is not around right now and YOU need to be happy. Why? cause as you pointed out you are 47 and guess, there is a lot of life to live.
but I am struggling with feelings of hopelessness and exhaustion.
I am sorry Irish. It will get better ONCE YOU allow it to. How do you change these feelings. You really sit back and figure out things to do for you. Movies, books, a night out on the town, etc.
Keeping your mind busy is critical. Hey, start reading up on some other threads. If you are interested in depressing, whinny, arrogant, pompus, funny, sad, etc stories you can go read my old thread. Oh…If ya haven’t noticed I use a lot of bad language – I’m working on that.
I listened to Joel Osteen last night and he talked about where you find your value.
That’s the young good looking preacher dude – right?
Tonight Irish…try to rest up. Oh...and stop working 12 hours a day.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks E. I did work less hours today - came home and took a nap:)
This morning my s and I started the day in a rough way. Both of us tired l- we ended up yelling at each other - with him reaching a screaming point, very angry and upset. Basic problem - both of us tired and having a hard time keeping up with the day-to-day.
At the end of the day - we apologized to each other and hugged. I admitted to him that I am finding myself getting more and more angry because of the whole situation. He responds - "finally - I'm glad." I said, it is more about feeling abandoned - like he left me to take care of everything. The house in disrepair for example. S says "he did and I am p*ssed about it too." But we both agree - we love him and long for him to return. Maybe it was good that it happened. I have a 4 day weekend coming up and I'm REALLY looking forward to it.
IB,
I felt just as you are in that it was like H left me holding the bag. I live in a huge old house built in about 1850. Saying my house is in disrepair is an understatement.
I'm here to tell you that once you start to get past the hurt and the anger and start getting things done yourself it is such a confidence builder. You'll take pride in your accomplishments and those feelings start to fade.
You'll learn to rely on yourself. In the end you're the only one you can rely on.
Enjoy your weekend!
Sweetie, I know how you feel about being overwhelmed. Both my h and I are without jobs, me with a neuromuscular disease on top of it, the house is a mess, going to lose it.
It helps to not look at the big picture. Take things a little at a time.
And SA is right. Once you start getting past the anger, you will be amazed at what you can do. And you will feel good knowing that you did it.
I just want to give you a little something to think about as your son is about the age my son was when this started.
I know that you and he are close as are we. And I dont believe in hiding your feelings from your children. But, I tried really hard not to involve my son in how I was feeling regarding his father.
For two reasons. First of all, they are looking to you to feel secure. They certainly cant count on their fathers right now. You need to set the tone. And you dont want your son worrying about you. That's not his job.
The second reason is that by you telling him you feel abandoned and overwhelmed by his father's actions, you are critizing his dad. It may seem like he is in agreement with you, but, trust me, he is torn and confused.
I know that you wanted to talk about why you were upset. Maybe next time you can just apologize and say you were feeling tired and anxious without pointing any fingers.
In the long run, you want to keep their relationship as intact as you can. That's the most important thing.
So, I dont want you to feel like I am critizing you. I am not. I just want to help you avoid any problems in the future.
It's best to give your children the space to make their own decisions about what they feel.
Hang in there, sweetie.
One day at a time. One moment if you need to.
You are so much more capable then you give yourself credit for.
Take one thing that you need to address in the house and handle it.
You may want your h, but you dont need him.
Show your kids what their mom is made of. Show them how to handle life's problems. Be their beacon.
Come on, IB. Get to gettin."
I understand what you are both saying. I feel like I am "on" all the time and cannot make any mistakes. It's exhausting! Constantly trying to say the right things - do the right things. It's like I'm always trying to stay balanced - if I could just disappear for a while...come back and the nightmare be over!
It gets easier, I promise.
You dont have to feel like you are "on" all the time. And you will make mistakes, believe me. And that's ok.
If you just try to remember that you are loving your h unconditionally right now. And you are loving your kids the same way.
And you dont want to dissappear and come back. You need to go through it all, step by step.
Here's the thing - you need to stop blaming yourself. You need to start believing in yourself.
You did the best you could with the tools and knowledge you had at the time. You did nothing with the intent to cause harm.
Look, you are a good person. And sometimes sh@t happens. It's all in how you deal with it that matters.
You have an opportunity here you would not have gotten had all this not happened. Seize it!
Be the person you were meant to be. Change the things that need changing. Live your life! Enjoy your children. Figure out how to be the best you you can be.
Now what are you going to do differently tomorrow, IB?
Because if you dont change your mindset, you are going to be feeling this way for a long time.
I know this is hard. I do. But I also know that you have it in you to get through this and come out the other side.
Your choice. Get going.
What to do differently tomorrow? I get up and try to be the best person I can / try not to let anyone down / try to be worthy - of value. And I feel like I'm standing still and everyone else is living a life around me. I don't know what or how I'm supposed to feel - act. I just try to act like I can make it.
I want what I can't have. I need to want something else...I just don't know what.
Thanks for pushing me to be better...I need it!
try not to let anyone down
Irish ... <PEI tapping on computer monitor to get her attention> ... c'mon girl ... I know that this stuff isn't going in one ear and out the other ... or is it?
I just try to act like I can make it.
LIKE you can make it?
Girlfriend ... of course you can make it. Whatever it is. Life will be different, no doubt about it. But NOT making it is not an option for me, and it shouldn't be for you either. It's hard Irish, really hard somedays ... and then, somedays, it's not hard at all.
Listen to my very wise friend B-lady ... she is da bomb! And she is also the most gracious, loving, compassionate soul I've ever had the pleasure of (cyber)meeting. But you know what she's not? She's not feeling sorry for herself (most of the time) ... she's not giving her H, her sitch, her financial (etc) realities, any power over her happiness.
DO FOR YOU.
Peace
PEI
Irish,
I feel like I am "on" all the time and cannot make any mistakes
You feel this way because you are fighting the changes that must take place in YOU. I did the same. As many have told you this stuff is really really hard. The hardest part Irish is getting to the place where YOU
really UNDERSTAND that you must DROP the rope. Does this mean that you are resigning yourself to a D. NO – not in the least bit. It is the acceptance that NOTHING YOU do will “snap” HIM out of HIS MLC.
Irish, it took me a very looooonggg time to get to this place. Very long….IMO, you cannot force it. It will just happen.
So what do you probably need for it to happen?
FORGIVENESS – not forgiving HIM. NO FORGIVING YOURSELF.
We have all made mistakes Irish. Every single person on these boards (even if they don’t admit it). AND we will continue to make mistakes because we are HUMAN.
You are still trying to change for HIM.
When you finally let him go…the changes for YOU will really begin to take form.
When you let him go…you will find what you are searching for..
You will find that deep inside YOU is a VERY strong woman.
A woman strong enough to deal with this.
A woman strong enough to handle the pain.
A woman strong enough to look in the mirror and ACCEPT her role in this!
A woman strong enough to change the things that she does not like about herself AND….
A woman strong enough to NOT carry the burden of all of this on HER shoulder…WHY
Because YOU Irish DID not cause your H’s MLC.
BUT
Your strong enough to wait it out…to outlast it…
Constantly trying to say the right things - do the right things.
Stop “trying”….just be YOU for now. Allow yourself some time to reflect on what YOU have learned so far and then slowly begin to live those changes
It's like I'm always trying to stay balanced
Balance is important for us the LBS’s.
I have had to learn that the balance of…
GAL’ingDetaching – I had to learn that detaching does not mean YOU fall out of LOVE. On the contrary, detaching allows you to love in a much more mature and healthy way.
Grieving – In order to heal and ultimately reconcile if that is God’s will (and I believe it is), you must go thru a certain amount of grief. It hurts, it sucks, BUT it is needed. The balance comes from recognizing when your grief has turned into depression. So Irish, it is okay to have some chitty days. It is okay to want to spend a day in bed crying. What is not okay….is staying there. Sorry girly…I’m not letting you stay there.
if I could just disappear for a while..
I can this a vacation. AND FTR, a vacation could be many things…a trip to a beach…a day of rest…AND the most important one…a day of giving YOUR mind a break. Read the Divorce Remedy and pay close attention to the section on THOUGHT STOPPING.
What to do differently tomorrow?
Tomorrow you take a STAND for Irish. Tomorrow you say to yourself that TODAY IS NOT THE DAY I QUIT and TODAY IS THE DAY THAT I LIVE FOR IRISH!
I get up and try to be the best person I can
What is the best person you can be? What does it look like? What is important to YOU? Don’t try to be perfect. Don’t fall into that trap. I did and all it did was hurt me. It was an expectation I had of myself that really I could not live up to. No one is perfect. The only ones that think and act as if they are…are….codependents. I was one. Once again, it is a behavior that CAN change.
try not to let anyone down
How about you not let YOURSELF down. Trying to satisfy everyone is a receipt for disaster. Just live for you Irish. Live to CONTINUE (note I did not say start) to be the mom and woman that you are. Loving, caring, kind, compassionate. Whoever cannot accept YOU for YOU…well screw them!
try to be worthy - of value.
YOU ARE WORTHY – JUST the way YOU ARE! Period – no if and or buts about it!
And I feel like I'm standing still and everyone else is living a life around me.
You don’t have to stand STILL, that is… Irish, do me a favor please send me a list of JUST 3 things that you always wanted to do and would like to do say…in the next 3 months. Here is where you should be expanding your energy.
I don't know what or how I'm supposed to feel - act.
Your suppose to feel EXACTLY how YOU feel. The bigger realization that must take place and another one of these things that is hard to accept/embrace is that feelings are just that feelings. They come, they go, they change. Why do you think we all keep telling you to GAL? When you do things that YOU like to do..your feelings will change.
I just try to act like I can make it.
Some will tell you to fact it until you make it BUT I like what PEI posted, “Not making it” should NOT be an option. You need some motivation…look at YOUR kids. You will make it Irish. I have no doubt.
I want what I can't have.
Do you mean that YOU want what YOU want NOW? You see, as God tells us….everything in HIS time NOT OURS. A hard concept to grasp especially if you are impatient. Patience Irish is something that EVERYONE needs to learn. Have ya ever heard of the old saying…”good things come to those that WAIT”?
Now, what YOU can have is even more beautiful…more fulfilling and that is Irish…you can have a new Irish and in time (GOD’s of course) a new M! BUT first the old one must die and must be grieved. In that death, old habits will be shed and new ones will be formed. Then Irish…then….is when you realize what I can see in you…and that is….
YOUR SPECIAL – JUST BECAUSE YOU are YOU!
God Bless,
Eric
Hey Pei, thanks for the kind words. But, oops, I guess I have to keep the feeling sorry for myself in check.
IB, when this all first happened, I blamed myself completely. I wasnt good enough, I wasnt strong enough, smart enough. I was depressed during the marriage, I didnt do enough.
But slowly, I realized two things. Anything I did or didnt do was not done intentionally. I was living my life the best way I knew how at the time.
When I started getting into that mindset, I realized that I needed to forgive myself. And I did. Really and truly.
I knew that I was always a good person. I tried my best. I was a good wife. And that was why I could forgive myself.
But I also realized that there were things about me that needed changing. I looked back at my marriage and saw how I could have done things differently. I realized things about myself that I wanted to change.
So, forgive yourself, IB. You did your best at the time. Now you know better.
It is when we forgive ourselves, that we begin to be able to change and grow.
Because holding onto all that guilt really doesnt get you anywhere. It doesnt change the situation. It doesnt change you. It just weighs you down.
I know it's hard to do that. It took me a long time to stop blaming myself. A really long time.
I dont want to see you do that, too.
So, say to yourself, I am a good person. I might have made mistakes but never knowingly and never with the intent to hurt my h or my marriage and I forgive myself.
Resolve for today that you love your h and yourself unconditionally.
Resolve for today that you will begin to figure out who IB is. She is not just a mother, not just a wife, not just an employee, not just a friend.
You are a strong, loyal, loving person, IB. Believe it.
Then, try to figure out how to be the best IB you can be.
Take this one step at a time.
Hey Pei, thanks for the kind words. But, oops, I guess I have to keep the feeling sorry for myself in check.
Don't we all B, don't we all
... it's part of the process, and YOU never get stuck there ...
Irish,
So much wisdom in B's post sweetie. Forgiveness is the gift you give yourself. It just keeps on giving.
Peace
PEI
Rationally I know everything that is being said is true. I really do. Emotionally though - it is still so painful right now I feel hopeless. I don't want my emotions to rule but I feel like I have suppressed this hurt and anguish for so long that if I don't get it out I won't be able to create a new life. The layers of humiliation, hurt, anguish, sadness are nauseating me! I feel like everyone is moving on and happy but me and I am scared. Scared that there is really something wrong with me. Scared that I am really the one who is f*cked in the head.
I keep hearing "don't blame yourself, it's him not you" - then I hear "take a good look in the mirror - see what your contributions were to the failed marriage" I am so confused! I have tried to admit my failings, ask for forgiveness - he can't and won't forgive me. Were my "sins" so much more unforgivable? Then I hear "he's sick, he's impaired, he's MLC, he's this/that" - all I know right now is he is HAPPY WITHOUT ME! And it kills me. What don't I get here? My SIL emailed me today and said that she had talked to H and hoped that I could "cope with the decision he has made and go further with your lives in a way that is good for you both and the kids"
To cope would mean I would have to understand why he feels the way he does - why he has done the things he has done. God I don't want to feel this hurt anymore!
all I know right now is he is HAPPY WITHOUT ME! And it kills me. What don't I get here?
What you don't get is that you are DEAD wrong. He is NOT happy right now. He is miserable. He only APPEARS happy. I thought my H was happy sometimes. I had to remind myself it was probably a facade. I'm learning that it was.
Admit your failings to YOURSELF and work on them for YOURSELF. You are not looking for forgiveness here from anyone. You are looking for the freedom to be the best IB you can be.
You cannot understand his feelings right now because I guarantee you he doesn't either. You can't understand madness. You CAN'T understand insanity. Don't go there.
(((IB)))
I know A - I keep reminding myself that - the mind hears the heart doesn't.
I continue to be dark from h for healing purposes. Quite honestly it is still too painful for me to hear from him, let alone see him. I'm not sure if I'm avoiding him and staying stuck or if I am really trying to trust myself and give myself time to heal. I wish I had a better handle on things.
I am sorry friends - I feel as if I have been coming to this board recently and purging depression rather than productively working through things.
I have to figure myself out! Eric asks for 3 things I've always wanted to do that I could maybe do in the next 3 months...how sad is it that I draw a complete blank! Am I an empty shell of a woman? Is there no substance here? I've always thought I had substance because I LOVED being a wife and mother. I've never thought about being/doing ANYTHING else. ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I can't stand these feelings!!!
IB, I'm sorry if I am adding to any confusion you may be feeling.
And let me start by saying everything you are feeling isnt any different than what most of us have felt at the beginning of all this.
So first things first. I thought my h was having the time of his life. No responsibilities, none. Living the single life, traveling, being with ow. Know what? He wasnt. Know how I know? I asked him one day. I said, so, are you happy? He said, I'm not. I'm getting there. Three years later, still not happy.
Now I am not suggesting you ask your h. I was way down the road and in a much different place than you are. But I tell you this because you should not assume anything.
And you know what? It doesnt really matter if he's happy or not. What matters is if you are.
You did not cause his MLC. You did not.
I suggest to everyone that when they are looking to see what changes to themselves that they need to make, they start with looking at who they were within the marriage. It's a starting off point towards change.
And let me tell you, at the beginning of all this, I could not think of one thing I always wanted to do. Not one. But slowly, over time, I figured it out. And you will too.
Here's the key. You have to be open to it.
And the way to become open to it is to put the focus on you. You are still way too stuck on your h and if he is happy and if he forgives you.
The heck with him right now. You forgive you.
You have been given a wonderful opportunity here, IB.
This was a journey you were meant to take.
I loved being a wife and mother, too.
But I have also loved finding my way. I have gotten my Associates degree, widened my circle of friends, traveled, changed my hair, my clothes, lost weight.
But the best thing I have done is look in that mirror. And you know what? I like what I see.
I see someone who has overcome a lot of hardship. I see someone who has found her strength and her sense of humor again. I see someone who has a great capacity to love and forgive.
What do you want to see?
do you think the spouse having the a is happy or miserable? I always think that my h is having a great time with ow and it bothers me. Maybe the cheaters feel guilty and are not happy.
Thanks Brooklyn - and all...
for your patience with me and your guidance! I am so blessed for having found you all! Seriously!
Tonight S is spending his first evening with H at his extended stay hotel. It really broke me. I don't know why...afraid of another loss - losing my son. Selfish...yes. Insecure...yes. Afraid of everyone else finding their way through this while I remain stuck - empty. I believe that I want what you stated above - lose weight, feel good, look good, enrich myself, enrich others.
I will find my way - I must!
Sweetie, you will not lose your son. You are his mom - always and forever. And as his mom, you want him to have his father in his life.
Your son is going to be going through all sorts of emotions over time. He is going to be looking to you. If you are ok, he will be, too. Show him the way, IB.
Only you have the power to get unstuck. As much as we all want it for you, it is you who needs to do it.
What are you afraid would happen if you let your h go?
IB, love him enough to do that.
And love yourself enough to want the best for you and him.
You can change you. You have to want it.
When or if he looks towards you, show him the best IB there is.
You deserve to be happy, honey. You do.
Keep moving forward on the journey. Take one thing. Just one thing that you would like to change. Work on changing it.
Go out and buy yourself a new outfit. Go get a new hair style.
Come on. Keep going.
IB, I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time! It will get better. I promise.
The single thing that helped me the most was learning all I could about MLC. It helped me to quit blaming myself for his crisis, forgive myself for my human failings in the M, forgive him for his hurtful behavior, accept that he would be on his long journey of self-discovery (if he was brave enough to choose that path) for some time, and move forward in the meantime on my own. It brought a profound sense of acceptance and peace. BUT it took a while. For me, about 18 months post-B. Not because I am a slow learner, because I'm not. I think it took me so long because I had been with my H for so long -- 40 years -- and I still loved him deeply. I still do, but our paths have diverged right now. Who knows where they will lead iin the future?
IB, keep reading, learning, posting. It will get better. Honest.
(((Irish)))
Hi IB
I agree with Twink...I am finally getting there and it has been 14mos post B but I AM a slow learner!
H and I were only together half the amount of time as Twink and her H! It really does help to read everything that you can about MLC! It DOES get easier!
I can't tell you how much it means to me that you all have taken time to respond to me. I always felt that I was a quick learner - but MLC has put me over the edge!
I will work at this over my 4 day weekend.
Irish,
Please stop beating yourself up AND do not put a timeline on ANYTHING. Do not set yourself up for failure. You do not know how you will feel tomorrow, let alone 4 days from now.
Just take things one minute, one day at a time. It will get better.
You are not a failure.
Not someone that cannot be love or cannot love.
Irish you have received some very good advice here. Do not give up....
ON YOURSELF.
God Bless,
Eric
Irish,
I am glad that you are finally starting to feel the anger.
Even if it is scary, it really is a good thing. Part of why you were/are depressed is because depression is in part, anger turned inward. So getting it out, is a good thing on many fronts.
Instead of arguing with your S, which is something that will happen once in a while because he is a teenager, try to channel that anger constructivly.
Use it to fuel you for now. To catch up on the cleaning, small house repairs that you can do (if you don't know how to do something, google it, there is tons of info out there...)
Then as you do these things and work through the anger, sometimes just working it off helps, you will find that you also gain confidence in your own abilities. Confidence in yourself.
This is NOT about us being perfect. In no way is it about that. That is something you are gonna have to find a way to let yourself off the hook about.
However, it is about being the best you can be, whatever that best is. Personally, I make awesome tasting food. Have for a long time, but it usually isn't so pretty to look at. So for me, that is something to work on down the road. For now, instead of beating myself up cuz the cake is lopsided, I focus on how it tastes.
I know is seems like a small stupid example, but that is how you have to look at this entire situation. In small and managable bites.
Focus on what you can do, what you do do well, try new small things, and go from there.
As far as your S, you are not going to lose him. He is your S and he loves you as you are. It is ok for him to be angry with your H and even with you a bit, but he will figure it out and make his own way. If he sees that this is not destroying you, it won't destroy him. What you don't want is for him to make a choice between you and his father. He needs both of you, even if his father isn't the Dad of the year right now.
Looking at your own role in the M, it is important, but it is looking at who you were, with complete honesty with yourself and seeing if there is anything you would have done differently.
And then be different in the future. Change those things now, so that when you are in a R, either with H or someone else, you have tackled those things already.
Were you quiet and didn't share your feelings?
Were you controling?
Did you accept all of the responsibility for things that happened and never ask for help from your H?
Things like that...
You are not standing still Irish. When you came here, you had a boatload of crap on your plate. Crap that is hard to deal with emotionally. More crap than most of us I think. You are beginning to work through that.
You have to be patient with yourself and let it happen. Brooklyn said, you have to be open to it. I agree with her.
Baby steps. We say look for baby steps with them, but we also have to look for baby steps with ourselves. Especially with ourselves. You will stumble and fall, and then you will get back up and start again.
It is how the process works.
I too am much further down this road than you are, but I didn't get here over night. I didn't get here easily either. It is a long hard road, but one that is well worth traveling.
You can do this.
Listen to what the others have said to you, especially Brooklyn. She knows of where she speaks.
You can do this Irish. I have believed that from your first post. You have it within you.
Cat, if this forum let me "like" someone's post, consider yours liked
I am forever grateful~!
I woke up at 5:30 this morning - to get S up for morning basketball work-out. ( I get to do this...h doesn't - btw: this is a GOOD thing:))
Had a hard time falling back to sleep (of course on my day off!)
Tossing and turning - 1000s of thoughts in my head - then this one:
What if God is telling me YOU deserve a better life than where YOU were headed? What if God is telling me that NO ONE should have to experience the humiliation and despair that comes from being with a sex addict? What if God is telling me that this is MY chance to save myself and my kids from a very scary future with a very sick man?
I just might believe!
My S told me that he cried the whole way home from H's hotel. H told him "I'm sorry but I'm never coming home again" Once S got home I just listened. He said "mom I hate to say this - but there is something wrong with him. Every time I tell someone about it they always reply - "no way, not you guys - you all were great together." Dad is not right - he's not the same and I don't know how much I can be around him"
My heart breaks for him / and then I get overwhelmed by guilt that this man's feelings towards me are separating my son from his dad.
There is nothing good about any of this - I am going to have to dig deep to find my way and begin to internalize the thoughts I had this morning.
Irish,
I am so sorry. Your H's actions torwards his son are NOT a reflection of YOU. They are HIS actions. NOT YOURS.
Yes this is very hard. Very. It can suck the life out of YOU BUT only if YOU let it.
As hard as this is right now...you must try and be strong for your son.
Go to your bedroom - cry - let it out. It's okay.
Tomorrow is another day Irish.
Today is not the day that YOU will QUIT!
Rest sweetie....rest..
Please take care of yourself.
Eric
IB
Im sorry that you and your son have to go through this. My son is the same age. Things do get better as time goes by. The first year was the most difficult. My h is not the same person that he use to be either. He use to be the most caring family man, but he was always a workaholic and wasn't home much. Do you think he is having affair?
I am trying to take care of myself Eric...slowing down..
Rysmom - my h was diagnosed with sexual addiction/compulsivity. When he left he was relapsing. Now he his "dating" a bartender from a rough part of town. I think he believes the life-wife=happiness and now he is cured because he is perhaps dating just one person rather than the randoms.
He feels that I only gave him "lip service" in terms of supporting his desire to work 12-14 hour days. He is probably right...I was always trying to get us to have balance in our lives. He was a division I athlete in college and had that excessive work ethic necessary to reach that level. His brain still works that way and rarely does anyone meet that level or standard.
I woke up this morning thinking that maybe God was trying to protect me and the kids by having him leave. Maybe God thinks we deserve better than that life.
I am joining a gym tomorrow and signing up with a personal trainer. It is time.
I am joining a gym tomorrow and signing up with a personal trainer. It is time.
Good for you IB!
I woke up this morning thinking that maybe God was trying to protect me and the kids by having him leave. Maybe God thinks we deserve better than that life.
Irish....
God does want us to lead happy and fulfilled lives....
God also gives us the ability to fulfill ourselves, from within.
When you change your focus, you change YOUR results.
I started changing when my prayers started getting more focused on me....
I am joining a gym tomorrow and signing up with a personal trainer. It is time.
Yes it is....
It is very heartbreaking being married to any kind of addict. My h use to drink a lot but after he gave up alcohol15 yrs ago he replaced it with shopping, and pornography lately. He owns a very successful company but blows every cent that he makes, he never has enough. I guess that is why I wasn't enough.
I also thought that my h was not a good example for my teenage son and maybe this gods plan until my h gets saved. He would watch innapropriate programs when my son was around and he had a picture of the devil custom painted on his motorcycle. i really think he has totally gone to the dark side.
That's a great idea to join a gym. I run 3 miles everyday with my dogs and I have a new friend that I play tennis with a couple of times a week. Just keep busy and stay close to God and take care of you and your kids. Try not to think about the craziness of WAS. Don't let their addictions cause chaos for you and your kids.You didn't cause it and you can't cure it. I try to let go and let god. Make sure to try to eat healthy and get plenty of sleep too. I went and played tennis tonight and it made me feel a lot better being around good people.
I can speak from experience here...
First...you did not cause this, nor are you really the reason...the reason we focus on ourselves (IMHO) is because we want to make a change for the better in our selves...this also serves as a wake up call to our spouse because then they see us differently as well...
Second...you are not driving your H away from your children...he is making his choice...my husband chose to stay away, not because of lack of love for his children but because inside he knew he was messed up...even though at the time he couldn't admit it...
Take time to look at all the beauty around you...we get so busy in life that we sometimes look but don't see...not a day goes by now that I don't notice a beautiful cloud against the blue sky, a pretty palm tree sticking up into the sky, a beautiful flower, a pretty bird, or a cute baby with it's mother...I have been known to lay on a lounge and watch ants!
I have found it very good for my own mental clarity and happiness...even though my husband has been home for several years I have maintained this appreciation...it helps me be in charge of MY happiness...
Take care
P.S. right now I am walking through this with a very dear friend who has 3 teenage boys...her husband returned to a woman that he had a child with 16 years ago!...it is so easier to give advice to people here but it is so hard to be tough with my friend!...
So if I am MIA and post sporadic, please understand this is why.
Lin - SO glad to hear from you! Believe it or not - I really use your story as a source of hope!
Rys - I love tennis as well - took a class in college / used to play with H every spring and summer (not competitively) - always wanted to take lessons and play in a league. Maybe it's a good time. Funny - my kids EXCEL in their areas (dance and basketball) - H was a great basketball and tennis player. Me? Nothing...My siblings excelled in basketball too - me...nothing. Always the "nice" girl. In an alcoholic/agoraphobic home I was the caretaker - people pleaser. I've been the stable one. Had the great marriage, great kids, great job. I am in wonderland here...no clue.
I'm 47 and have spent my life in this supporting role. Now what? I guess that's what I am supposed to find out.
Thanks all so much for listening to my whining! I know it gets old!!
I'm 47 and have spent my life in this supporting role. Now what? I guess that's what I am supposed to find out.
Maybe this is what your message the other morning was all about.
Not necessarily your M, but YOU.
Step out of the role a bit. Make yourself more of a priority.
Then the pieces will start to fall together and you won't feel like everything is falling apart quite so much.
My middle d brought 10 girls home with her for the night - big football game. They were supposed to be out at parties all night but as luck would have it - they all ended up in my living room. So I got up and made breakfast for them - cleaned up my kitchen from their "3am snacking". And LOVED every minute of it!
I LOVE being a mom!
Very long day - mostly good though. Tough single parenting issues this evening regarding S's moodiness and agitation. Been worse since he met with his dad on Thursday. Tonight he admitted that he is stressed and overwhelmed. H and I were a good team as parents. I feel confident that I am a good parent - but I often get overwhelmed and exhausted. I get angry at H's abandonment. His selfishness.
Heard Sara Evans song today "I Get A Little Bit Stronger" - amazing lyrics / dead on to those of us at this site.
Hi IB
I have noticed that my kids are kinda crabby and cranky when they get home after they have been with their Dad and OW. In a way, I am glad as I would be very sad if they totally accepted the situation...but, I know it is not right....
Just be the best parent you can be!!! You can't make-up for your H...that is up to him!
I am going to check out that Sara Evans song you posted....
Well friends - today was quite interesting. I'm driving my middle D back to school then driving to my hometown for a quick visit. At 3pm my H calls me. Wants to tell me that yesterday while cleaning S's car he found a bottle of pain pills!!! He then says how are we going to handle it? I ask if I can call him back. I get my composure together - call him back and ask "Why am I just hearing about this today when it happened yesterday morning?" He says "you all were going to lunch" and "I thought he would come to me about it" - I said "did it have anything to do with the fact that you were off and you didn't want to be disturbed?" I said - you are a school counselor - is that what you advise parents at school?" I said I don't have the ability to only make S a priority "occasionally" - that it was a 24/7 job. I said - "you tell the kids that the reason you are gone is that you don't want their mother / you don't love their mother - well guess what - that same mother is who they have right now!"
Friends...I lost it! He went on and on about how if I was handling the break-up better the kids would be better.
The man is completely CRAZY!!!!!!!!!! So I come home and work through the situation with S. Then have him call his father. Said to S "sorry bout your luck - but we are educators and we have drug tests available" -
FTR----my life NEVER looked like this! God help me!!!!!!!!!!
Day 4 of my 4-day weekend. Was moving along fairly well until yesterday's events. Today, woke up and got S out the door with hot chocolate (his favorite).
Emailed H as follow-up to events with S. Asked him to communicate when/if he gives S money and if they are meeting up just so that I can stay on top of S's activities.
I was really, really angry with H yesterday. For him to withhold this kind of information about S was beyond crazy. I truly believe that he just did not want his day off inconvenienced by having to deal with parenting. We had it out on the phone and for the first time since all of this began I said things that I had been holding back. I told him that I could not believe how detached he was from the kids. That he thought they were immune. That he had absolutely no idea what life had become for them and for me. He came back with "well if you would be amicable about this and had cooperated it would all be different." I said that I was willing to be amicable while we were working to move to a structured separation with the counselor but that when he refused I could not. I also said that I could not be cooperative by lying to the kids saying that "we" wanted the marriage to end / "we" wanted this/that. I told him that once he went back to phone lines and f****d the hooker in June - everything changed.
I didn't bring up the fact that he said his hotel room had two beds so that S could spend the night. The truth is it has one bed. I didn't bring up the fact that he has not given a dime to S. I didn't say anything about him telling the kids about his bartender. I didn't say anything about him texting instead of talking. I didn't say anything about the losses. I didn't say anything about standing.
I read a line recently about God and anger. I think it was God said "be angry but do not sin"
I am angry and for the first time I felt justified. Why has it taken so long? Now I need to be productive with it.
I am angry and for the first time I felt justified. Why has it taken so long? Now I need to be productive with it.
Don't worry about how long it takes Irish.
You have read the stages of LBS?
You have read other people's threads?
I can tell you what happened to me and
so can anyone else.
And you can hear it.
BUT
Until you live this. Feel it. Discover for yourself.
It will not become part of you.
So
What will you do with this anger?
First - I want to use this energy to keep moving forward. Take control of MY life and that of my family. I want to be a better person overall. I want to be a positive light in my family and friends' lives. I want to find productive ways to deal with my sadness and hurt. I want to feel it then leave it. I want to chronicle the last 6 months and possibly more to compartmentalize it and not let it define me.
That's my start
Irish,
Take control of MY life and that of my family.
And what does this ^^^^ mean in literal terms. Give me some clear examples. Something measurable.
I want to be a better person overall.
How? Get specific. What exactly do you want to change for YOU to be a better person for YOU?
I want to be a positive light in my family and friends' lives
Believe it or not YOU probably ALREADY are. Take a little credit Irish…you really are a wonderful and strong Mom. It is okay to take credit for the good that is ALREADY in YOU.
I want to find productive ways to deal with my sadness and hurt.
Once again…give me some specifics. What will you do if all of a sudden your H calls pissed off about something.
You are starting to see Irish what we have been telling you. You are strong..
You will survive and thrive…
God Bless,
Eric
A LITTLE BIT STRONGER - Sara Evans
Woke up late today,
and I could still feel the sting of pain,
but I brushed my teeth anyway.
Got dressed through the mess, and
put a smile on my face.
I got a little bit stronger.
Riding in the car to work,
and I try to soothe all the hurt.
There's a song on the radio,
stupid song made me think of you.
I listened to it for a minute,
but then I changed it.
I'm getting a little bit stronger.
Just a little bit stronger.
And I'm not hoping we can work it out.
I'm done with how I feel.
Spinning my wheels,
letting you drag my heart around.
And I'm not thinking you could ever change.
I know my heart will never be the same.
But I'm telling myself I'll be OK,
even on my weakest day.
I get a little bit stronger.
It doesn't happen overnight.
But you turn around and a months gone by,
and you realize you haven't cried.
I'm not giving you an hour, or a second,
or another minute longer.
I'm busy getting stronger.
And I'm not hoping we could work it out.
I'm done with how I feel.
Spinning my wheels,
letting you drag my heart around.
And I'm not thinking you could ever change.
I know my heart will never be the same.
But I'm telling myself I'll be OK,
even on my weakest day.
I get a little bit stronger.
Just a little bit stronger.
Getting along without you baby.
Better off without you baby.
How does it feel without me baby?
I'm getting stronger without you baby.
And I'm not hoping we could work it out.
I'm done with how I feel.
Spinning my wheels,
letting you drag my heart around.
And I'm not thinking you could ever change.
I know my heart will never be the same.
But I'm telling myself I'll be OK,
even on my weakest day.
I get a little bit stronger.
Get a little bit stronger.
Just a little bit stronger.
Little bit, little bit, little bit stronger.
Get a little bit stronger.
Everyday is a new day and a new opportunity to expand your life and mind. Take it - one day at a time.
Decent work day. IC today - good session. Took pilates class today - felt great. Cooked dinner for 2nd day in a row for S and myself. Tomorrow excavation begins on my backyard (inground pool being removed - finally!)
Releasing some of that anger on Sunday was very helpful. I have kept silent for most of these few months. I will admit that I did have fleeting thoughts like "oh no now he will never come back / now he will never want me." Yes I know that it sounds like I haven't completely dropped the rope - but I really think that I am closer. I talked to my IC about it and I realized that some of the issue is recognizing H has some mental health issues outside of MLC. IC thought the whole "sickness and health" thing might be playing a part.
Anyway I thought I might tackle some of Eric's questions in the next day or so...become a little more specific and prescriptive about myself and my life.
Irish
I thought I might tackle some of Eric's questions in the next day or so
Right now...enjoy this time of rest and peace that you are experiencing. If you can answer that is fine BUT nothing should take from the peace you seem to be enjoying.
Your doing really well.
Eric
Irish,
"Be angry, but do not sin". I like that. Enough to put it on a T shirt. I don't believe I've ever heard that as a Biblical verse, but then I'm hardly a Bible scholar. It's God giving us permission to be angry when wronged, but reminding us that two wrongs don't make a right. (See guys, I get it)
Irish, FWIW, I think you are doing beautifully. Joining a gym is an excellent idea. You are always there for your kids. You are, as Seeking put it to me, the rock of your family. Bet you didn't know you were so tough.
You ARE in control of your family. H walked away, right? His little phone call was just a jab at you, probably because you are handling things so well.
Keep on the path you are following; I think it's the right one for you.
H is working to come back into S's world. S is not super receptive. But that is between them.
My day was kind of exciting! Excavation began on the removal of my old inground pool in my backyard. Three years in the making! Now I will begin dreaming about what my backyard might look like.
I have started to calm down again and may be finding my center. Feels good.
Irish
I am glad that you are feeling better. Your post these last few days have "sounded good".
Yes I know that it sounds like I haven't completely dropped the rope - but I really think that I am closer.
Dropping the rope, letting go, detach ing - all of this takes time Irish. It really does. Don't rush it. Feel the feeling that you have - feel them. Continue to let them out. If you do not resentment and anger will just build up in you, which really is not good for you OR for your R with God.
Rest up Irish....heal sweetie.
Take some time and just learn about Irish.
As hard as it is, thinking about what you want to do in your life.
If I recall in an earlier post, you questioned "being a mother". Don't ever question that. Be a mom is probably the most important, stressful, challenging and difficult job that any person could have. You Irish, based on your R with your kids - are an excellent Mom. You continue to exceed at being a MOM. Exceed. Why do you even doubt that you cannot exceed in ANYTHING that you put your mind too. Never doubt Irish, your stronger than you think. Know how I know?
Cause your a MOM!
God Bless,
Eric
I have been wondering something...
Is it possible that H's claim that he never wanted to marry me / that he felt "trapped" / that he thought he would marry a "tier 1" beauty - etc. Is it possible that these statements could be true? We had so many laughs, smiles, moments, touches, etc. - could those have truly been fake?
I realize that many of you will say "who cares what H has said.." - but I feel as though I have to reconcile these statements as a possibility. If it's not true (I understand that it is true to him today in his MLC state) - then I see it as a symptom of MLC. If it is true - it doesn't change my commitment to stand - it just changes the dynamics.
I hope this makes sense (and yes I am sober:) - just reflecting and compartmentalizing.
Thanks for your thoughts!
So what? He's what? My age? 47 years old, and the best years are behind him, and he's been wondering if he missed out on something like dating/marrying a beauty queen? Is that his unfulfilled fantasy that became now or never when he finally confronted the stark reality of his own mortality and the eventuality of his own failing health?
Him,Donald Trump and Rod Stweart should party, eh?
Donald & Rod can afford women too young for them. Is your H loaded, or is he headed for huge disappointment and probably victimhood?
Yes he's your age:)
No H is not loaded.
Headed for huge disappointment - IDK
Victimhood - IDK
Thanks for the reality check - I tend to romanticize him and elevate his status.
I think I am thinking too much:)
IB
I know you know this!!! You CANNOT believe anything they say!
CW -
I know, I know!
Thanks for the reminder!
Got lost in the cesspool for a minute!
Rationally I know everything that is being said is true. I really do. Emotionally though - it is still so painful right now I feel hopeless. I don't want my emotions to rule but I feel like I have suppressed this hurt and anguish for so long that if I don't get it out I won't be able to create a new life. The layers of humiliation, hurt, anguish, sadness are nauseating me! I feel like everyone is moving on and happy but me and I am scared. Scared that there is really something wrong with me. Scared that I am really the one who is f*cked in the head.
Please know this question comes from someone who's been where you are, but have you seen someone about medication? Your continued "cycling" thru the phases of depression and backsliding seem to be partly physical now and it's affecting about every aspect of your life.
I keep hearing "don't blame yourself, it's him not you" - then I hear "take a good look in the mirror - see what your contributions were to the failed marriage" I am so confused! I have tried to admit my failings, ask for forgiveness - he can't and won't forgive me. Were my "sins" so much more unforgivable? Then I hear "he's sick, he's impaired, he's MLC, he's this/that" - all I know right now is he is HAPPY WITHOUT ME! And it kills me. What don't I get here? My SIL emailed me today and said that she had talked to H and hoped that I could "cope with the decision he has made and go further with your lives in a way that is good for you both and the kids"
This means you must start at least acting as if you accept his choices and are not Stuck. She's telling you to move on and even if it's just an act, do it. "Standing" does not mean standing around waiting. You seem to be very focussed on MLC issues and asking a lot of questions that have no answers. I urge you to stop asking things that have no answer. I seriously doubt your h knows why he is doing what he is doing. The fact that he's changed the past 6 years means, he's changed. So don't try to mind read.
I think the idea that it's MLC gives some people hope that their situation has a higher chance of recon and I don't know if that's even true. I DO KNOW that my single biggest regret in looking back, is how much time I wasted asking questions like you are asking. I wracked my brain wondering what had happened to my h and what he was thinking/feeling/doing, etc. But once he was out, It should have ALL been about ME creating a new life for myself and my kids regardless of what H was doing. Otherwise I was giving someone else the power to choose MY happiness. Fact is, we are in charge of our own happiness. No one else is.
Besides, in my case, If all h saw was pain and hurt at home, well, who misses that? Finally I went on a Serious trip with the kids (not going to be alone on our anniversary) and we had such a great time. Best money I ever borrowed! Point was, we WERE and ARE a family whether my h is there or not. This was a turning point for me and in reality, a turning point for my h as well. IT was NOT done as a tactic. But h knew we were having a ball and he was on his own. Not with his w and kids in a new country exploring...oh well, HIS loss. Once h saw that HE was the one "missing out" on family life and fun, I suspect things in his life began to clear up for him. Give yourself and your children a happy home and coincidentally give your h something to miss.
To cope would mean I would have to understand why he feels the way he does - why he has done the things he has done. God I don't want to feel this hurt anymore!
No. Coping does NOT mean you have to understand how HE feels or why he has done anything. ALL that you have to do is cope with the fact that your h is, for all intents and purposes, in the Australian bush and you cannot reach him for the foreseeable future. PLEASE Stop thinking you have to "get" this to move on with your life. You don't .You do NOT need to know, let alone understand, all this stuff. Put a "stop sign" in your head every time the image of your h comes up in your mind until your T or your personal work allows you to move forward and deal with him from a postion of strength.
I do not think you seem strong to your son when he asks you to stay away from his dr appt b/c your son knows merely being around your h is too painful for you. You are giving your h so much power, really all of it. Re read Brooklyn's advice. Detach, go dark and heal yourself. It really IS a choice.
Life is short and your children are watching.
You do realize you are modelling for them what to do when THEY face a big setback or heartbreak.
And they will be heartbroken or betrayed someday in life too. Are you going to show them that their pain is eternal? It's NOT! Are you going to show them that it's fatal? It's NOT....choose to be happy and that begins with honest gratitude which may mean volunteering at a soup kitchen or reading about the 3rd world problems so rampant today. Years ago I was hospitalized while pregnant and felt pretty sorry for myself. I saw the moon in the window and felt some sort of "solidarity" with other pregnant women in the world who might be looking at the moon right then too. Then it hit me. How much better my world was then theirs. I was in a hospital and would give birth in one, with a doctor there. Most women in the world don't give birth in hospitals. Some of them had no shelter. Some of those women had no husbands, or didn't know where they were or if they would return to their village alive.
We are women in this century, thank God. We are in a nation where we can worship as we wish; no one is closing our church or temple or synagogue. No one is shooting at us, or taking our sons and husbands to join their new "army". No one is raping us or our daughters, and we are free to work where we can be hired.
You have a home, not just a shack. It won't collapse in a rain. There is food in your kitchen; it's in a refrigerator run with electricity.There will be food there tomorrow. None of your children has a deadly disease or disability. You have a JOB! It doesn't suck.
So...your h left you and is now in a R with OW. Well Irish, I know that hurts. But I hope in the grand scheme of things you can see that this is survivable. AND you can be happy and loving again. (And loved)
I got some great advice from my db coach. Here's what I learned.
If there's a chance for your h to come back, imo, it'd be by contrasting the negative images he's created to justify leaving, with positives. So if you're acting sad and co dependent or needy, it's not working. Do the 180's now and (plus it will help your kids to see this) contrast with positives.
Be upbeat, positive, busy with your new life. You can be resigned to his tragic choices and act as if you accept them as final (UNTIL if and when he changes his mind). HE might. He might not. Since you'll be moving on it won't matter to you. Do NOT fall into the mistaken notion that if you act confident and content with your life that your h will somehow let go of the M. that's like saying your approach is working? So why not be an attractive strong woman with her act together, who is also the happy mother of his children, who has a home that is not 'in disrepair" but is warm and loving and comfortable? Whatever has to be fixed in the home, is both your responsibilities to some extent.
Try to talk to a DB coach. The anger probably isn't good to show your h but I can't tell if everyone is telling you that b/c you've been a borderline doormat or what. But the DB coaches are so helpful & specific, that if I could only do ONE thing to save my m, it'd be talking to them. Have you talked to them? And what do you think of the DB books and going dark and last resort and backing off and detaching? What things have you done to move in that direction?
What are YOUR 180's? What are you doing to GAL? What can you do to reassure your children that you will ALL survive as a family, no matter what
b/c you will see to that?
I've been where you are and it sucks. But only you can get yourself out of this place. Think hard about that.
Good luck,
j
Irish,
Who among us has not had a dark night of despair? I have had a good baker's dozen or so. Believe it or not, things will look better with morning's light, and the next, and the next. We crash and burn on occasion; so what?
The healthiest thing you can do for yourself and your family is to stop trying to get into his head. How can you know what he thinks/feels when he doesn't?
My H told our D24 yesterday that I just kept postponing the inevitable. Now, that ticked me off because sfb still doesn't get the significance of our 20th anniversery & healthcare for me. Not that it should. The darker he stays, the better.
You are doing a wonderful job. You are taking care of you and your family, the important jobs. You are finding out day after day how strong you can be on your own. Tomorrow, or rather today, go out and do something completely different just for you. Get a wild haircut, get a facial, get your nails done. I, personally, bought a pair of black tights, a sexy paisely blouse, and black boots. Couldn't afford em' ; have to pay them off over time, but damn I'll look good at the football game Friday night.
The dark night will be over soon, it may not be your last, but they do begin to space out.
Sweet dreams Irish.
Irish,
Is it possible that H's claim that he never wanted to marry me / that he felt "trapped" / that he thought he would marry a "tier 1" beauty - etc.
Anything is possible Irish. The bigger question is……do you believe that you are a tier 1 beauty? If you do not, then YOU should ask yourself why?
Hey look you know I can be pretty brutally honest.
So here goes….
Irish – F*CK YOUR H right NOW. Let me repeat F*CK YOUR H right now. F*ck what he thinks, F*ck what he does, F*ch what his opinions are. Just F’em.
Is it possible that these statements could be true? We had so many laughs, smiles, moments, touches, etc. - could those have truly been fake?
Irish, go read the MLC resources again. Your H is totally fuc*ed up in the head right now. You need to stop paying attention to what he says. You are allowing your thoughts to bring you down. Stop it!
You continue to spin because you continue to tie
YOUR value, YOUR self worth, YOUR identity to what YOUR H says and does. I am sorry for being so hard with you Irish, but you keep getting on the hamster wheel and spinning, and spinning.
Get off the hamster wheel for a while – hey just for a week – ok?. Stop looking at YOUR H and start looking inside yourself for a few days AND when you LOOK – consider this….
1) Who gave birth to 2 wonderful children
2) Who raise these 2 wonderful children
3) Who continues to be a ROCK for these wonderful children
4) Who get’s up and works 12 hours days in order to provide for these wonderful children
5) Who was attractive enough to have….”fun” with her H, which resulted in wonderful children
6) Who was attractive enough to remain married for 25 years
7) Who is the one keeping the house up to snuff
8) Who is the one who kept her word when she committed to her H
9) Who is the one who is standing and NOT running
10) Who is the one that is doing EVERYTHING in her power to keep her family together
11) Who is the one who has not quit
12) Who is the one that makes sure that the kids get to where they need to get to
13) Who is the one who sacrificed to keep the M going
14) Who is the one that sacrificed herself for her family
15) Who is the one who continue to give
16) Who is the one who has not run off into the arms of another
17) Who is the one that is doing the work
18) Who is that tries to keep the peace
19) Who is the one that picks up after the kids and the dog
20) Who is the one who is trying to live and honest life
The “who is the one” is YOU Irish.
Your H does not define YOU.
Your H did not make YOU the mom that you are
Your H did not do the work
You did all of this Irish and guess what….that makes YOU special. AND nothing YOUR H, your mind, your feelings, your fears, your insecurities – nothing can change that FACT!
Irish – It’s time to stop running.
To stop running from YOURSELF.
Time to stop and realize just how wonderful you are.
Time to stop giving YOUR H the POWER over YOU.
Time to stop running around and around on the hamster wheel.
Time to Be YOU Irish.
“Fear not – for thy God is with Thee”!
God Bless,
Eric
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Everything Eric just said - ditto girlfriend!!!
IB,
Please don't let what 25 posted to you get lost here....
I know that you feel like you need to understand it all and why and is what he is saying is true. I know it because I felt the same way.
Here's the thing. It is what it is. Understanding it (which unless you are having the exact same MLC as your h is impossible)aint gonna change it.
You know in your heart that what your h said isnt true. You were there all those years.
So, it's time, sweetie, to put that mindset aside for now. Maybe one day you will understand it all, maybe not.
It wasnt until I gave that all up and just accepted what was, that I really started to heal and move forward.
Just put the thoughts to rest for now. Thinking and rethinking the same things over and over is not getting you anywhere.
IB, I was where you were. I did go on antidepressants and it helped a great deal. Everyone has different opinions on it, but it might be something for you to look into.
So, come on, stop yourself from going down the same path. Do whatever you have to get your mind going in a different direction.
You can do this.
I am speechless - so overwhelmed and overcome with gratefulness for the guidance provided here.
25...your words are EXACTLY what I need to hear. I know that I've heard them from Brooklyn, Cat, Eric, True, Punkin, all - but something about your message resonated strongly with me. And Eric - who is the one? It is me. I've been incredibly blessed for the 28 years I was with this man. And I've been given a life with these kids that I could never have dreamed of in my youth. And Brooklyn I have begun to recognize the small gifts of time and freedom and quiet and rest that have resulted from this devastation.
We have had an inground pool that has been "dead" for 2 years. It has been an ugly, disgusting, eyesore - a "cesspool" if you will. This week, I had it excavated. I now have a huge backyard leveled with rich soil. I have the opportunity to create something new from the ground up. The cesspool that I found myself in nine months ago is no longer in my line of sight on a daily basis. Just as I am able to dream about what my yard will look like - I am close to being able to develop a dream for myself. The cesspools in my life have not only been drained - but they are being replaced with something clean and pure. Couldn't help but make the comparisons.
I joined the gym this week - took pilates class - laughed with my kids - cooked - read - worked. And I loved it!
Thank you ALL for being so amazingly patient and supportive. The kindness of strangers....leaves me humbled and incredibly grateful.
Interesting observation from young friend...
I picked her up from the airport and we were talking about the things I had done around the house. New appliances (replacing 17 year old ones) - some landscaping - pool excavation. She says you have done more things in a month than you have all these years with H. H was not a "finisher" - LOTS of incomplete projects. She continued by saying "I never understood why it didn't bother you."
I thought about this and realized that all this time I thought I was being "low maintenance" - didn't care about materialistic things really - just focused on giving kids lots of experiences and making lots of memories - which we did. Amazing ones!
I let H make me feel as if we didn't deserve to have the nice things because of "overindulging" the kids. And I went happily along with it because as long as I had him - I didn't need anything else.
So friend asks me how it feels to have done these things - she said "you should have seen your middle D's face when she saw the refrigerator!"
I really can't answer yet how it makes me feel. In some ways scared, not sure why. In some ways secure. In some ways proud. In some ways sad.
Have I blindly allowed H to send a message to the world that our marriage and I weren't of value? Was I closing my eyes and holding on for dear life trying to keep him?
The things I am learning....another blessing!
Another victory! You are learning the value of YOU. Guess what? I can carry the garbage to the curb myself kind of stuff.
And who cares what message H 'sent out' to the world. That's his problem. People are not blind. They see, and your young friend proved it!
And if other people see it, don't think for a minute that H won't either. He may be so blinded by his own light at the moment, but eventually, he will. Also, don't be surprised if he tries to rain on your parade for the sake of his own ego.
Irish. Take your pick: I am Woman, hear me Roar; or I Will Survive. ( Apparently these are mowing the yard songs )
Irish
I've been incredibly blessed for the 28 years I was with this man
AND HE has been increadibly blessed to have YOU for 28 years!
that have resulted from this devastation
Ever been to hiroshima or nagasaki? Wonderful cities that were
REBUILT after total destruction. Sometime God needs to tear it all down...so that HE can rebuild it back up. But rebuild he will do...if YOU let him.
I am close to being able to develop a dream for myself
Let your imagination run wild...you really can do whatever YOU put your mind to.
Have I blindly allowed H to send a message to the world that our marriage and I weren't of value? Was I closing my eyes and holding on for dear life trying to keep him?
You did what you knew at the time. You know better now so YOU will do better.
In terms of letting go...
Sometime we hold on so tightly to something...
We feel we cannot make it with out it...
Then
We realize...
We can
We can fly, yeah we may stumble a bit here and there BUT such is life isn't it.
When we really start to fly
We realize just how special each of us are.
We are special just because we are.
God Bless,
Eric
another good song is "I will love again"...
Irish, I find it sad that you might have put your h's 'feathers not getting ruffled' and or you wanting to be low maintenance for HIM, over your own peace of mind and pride in the home, or the home's serenity, or its' value, or its' appearance ---and ahead of the home you provide to your children, and their feelings about it.
Sure you can regret that, for a MINUTE. Then be glad for the lesson learned and don't backslide on this if you can possibly avoid it. (It also gives him something more to miss about the home) but really, who cares what he SAYS? Not you! You live there, as does your son, and it's nicer now. That's a good thing. Period.
If you see him and he says something negative or if you hear of it thru the kids, you have to act as if you ASSUME he's glad for the improvements b/c after all, it's the family home and so "of course" he's happy for all of you. He surely wants the best for his family even if he's not living there anymore, WHO WOULDN'T WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR THEIR FAMILY?
This presumption of good intentions gives him something healthy to live up to even if you don't believe it and it is NOT a tactic. It's a way to cope with the kids comments and to show them that caring for oneself and one's home, is what one does. He is, simply, irrelevant to this now.
Hope this makes sense.
I hope it's not inappropriate to say - but I love you all! You have made my day! You keep giving me great things to think about and I think (don't want to get cocky) some of the fog is lifting! Thanks so much!
If you allowed yourself to envision life without your h, in a positive light, as in, with you actually enjoying yourself, what would that look like?
Force yourself to do it and be detailed! Then begin to create it. A fulfilling life without your h.
If you cannot do this, it's the same as saying that if he were killed in an auto crash you'd surrender to eternal grief and shrivel up and die. Would you really do that? If not, then you know that it's partly ego creating the misery you often feel. The rejection of a man who left by choice. Yes I understand that. But our ego IS within our control. Re-direct your ego into self respect and make a good life for yourself without your h. If he ever "wakes up" and IF he's willing to make the numerous changes that would likely be needed for you to feel secure with him, and could do it long enough, THEN you can address all that. Meanwhile, how's your new life going? What are you doing to be happy as a woman with wonderful healthy kids?
PS Lest any of us forget, 95% of women in the world don't have what we have going for us. Perspective...
25,
You are so F-ing cool. : )
I'd say I hope all is well with you, but you being you? I know all is well with you.
Ladies,
I am not saying put 25 on a pedestal.
I am not saying blindly follow her advice.
I am suggesting that you listen to it and weigh it, it is good advice. She is a strong confident AND FORGIVING woman, and THAT is very attractive.
25,
You are so F-ing cool. : )
I'd say I hope all is well with you, but you being you? I know all is well with you.
Ladies,
I am not saying put 25 on a pedestal.
I am not saying blindly follow her advice.
I am suggesting that you listen to it and weigh it, it is good advice. She is a strong confident AND FORGIVING woman, and THAT is very attractive.
Thanks 25 - the ego thing hit home. No I wouldn't shrivel up with grief and yes, part of this pain is humiliation/embarrassment/shame. I don't like to admit it - but it is there.
Last night I drove 2 hours to watch my middle daughter dance at her college's football game. Of course, in the past this is something that was shared - but last night it was me alone. So in between dances, I grabbed a beer, my ipod, and sat and people-watched. I was alone - but ok. Afterward, went back to her house ate a little bit - got up early this morning and came home for pilates. My new life. Today, H is making the drive to have lunch with her for her birthday. There are times when it is all so odd that a year ago we were at parents weekend together having a great time. But here's the deal I had a GREAT time too. It just was different.
25 - how's my life going / what am I doing to be happy with myself and my kids? First and foremost I feel clean. I am not exposed to daily reminders of the sexual addiction behaviors. I am beginning to create structures that are healthier for me and for the kids - even the older ones. I am more focused on creating a lovely home and home-life for me and my son. I am thinking more clearly. I am resting when I need to and not beating myself up so much if I don't accomplish all that I set out to do. I am beginning to put words to feelings if that makes sense - developing some clarity. I am making plans and following through with them. I am saying "no" when I need to say "no".
I am doing better...thanks for asking and for your incredible perspective!
Attagirl, IB. Now you're onto something.
This all takes time, my friend.
But you are on the right path.
Of course, you will have moments of sadness. It was, afterall, many years with your h.
But, you can create a new life. A calm, peaceful one. Different from the old, but no less important, no less deserved.
You are doing wonderfully. Keep going.
Thanks B. I am definitely trying!
I want to find a better way to get through these pangs of sadness that occur at different points. I know that feeling the pain is part of the journey and at least I am feeling SOMETHING!!
Good Sunday morning friends:) Hope you all have great fall day! We have fires starting around here due to the drought conditions. The smell of burning leaves - all day, every day!
Spent a long time talking to my mother last night. Interesting that we behaved very differently in our marriages and ended up in the exact same place. Thought I married someone completely different from alcoholic father - and I actually did - however bottom line comes down to choices. H made a choice to leave - Father made a choice to leave.
I am learning though to spend more time thinking about what I know -
1. I know H is missing out on sharing his life with a pretty great person - ME -
-
2. I know H is missing out on incredible moments with teenage S
3. I know I have a lot of potential that I will attain
4. I know that I have 3 amazing kids who see ME as their rock
5. I know I have wonderful friends and family who are there for me in an instant
6. I know I am a healthy person today
7. I know I have a lot of work to do on improving my self-esteem and not taking on the blame for everything that happens in the world
8. I know that if I were honest with myself - with H removed from the house - the air is cleaner (figuratively) - I'm not worried about stepping on toes / making someone angry / worried about him engaging in sexual addiction behaviors and crazy sick stuff
9. I know I am closer to God than I have ever been
I know I am working on:
1. Relaxing more
2. Toning
3. Eating healthy
4. Catching up
5. Dreaming
6. Planning
Pretty good start for a Sunday!
Atta girl IB!
If you feel yourself start to slip, look at your list. You're on your way!
End of another weekend. Mixed emotions emerging. Middle D had lunch with H on Saturday. He told her that after going to NC for our nieces funeral he realizes that life is too short and he has to find happiness. He felt he was validated in his actions by this trip. Leaves me speechless - but not knocked down.
Right now I feel as if I am "pushing" through the emotions. Like I'm trying to stay standing through them instead of collapsing. I guess that is a sign of me trying to get stronger. Still have no contact with him. And for now that is what I need.
Time to get ready for the week.
IB, please don't let his words take away the strides you have been making.
Remember he is in crisis. He is trying to find a way to fill the hole he feels. He needs to walk this. It's best if you just continue to stay out of the way.
While I know you want your children to be able to confide in you and come to you with their feelings, it might be best for you to tell them again that what is said between them and their father should be kept between them.
And to say that we all should find happiness and you hope he finds his.
Sweetie, he has to learn on his own that happiness doesnt come from the outside. And you need to let him.
You, on the other hand, are learning things about yourself, finding your strength, becoming who you were meant to be.
And push throught the emotions if you have to right now.
Keep going. Dont forget to live YOUR life, the amazing, wonderful live you envision.
So, He SAYS he FEELS validated...and we care about this why? I mean, so what? Big deal. Of course he says that, and even if he feels that (as opposed to convincing himself he does OR just lying b/c he doesn't want to admit feeling sad or lonely or doubtful) , the need to share that WITH HIS/YOUR DAUGHTER, is reflective of his need to reassure himself. And others...too much. It wasn't to be cruel but it is clueless. (sigh) What's new? Not relevant...
Look, the best advice I can give is to repeat what I and others have said, BUT to add that if you can do this new way of living fully, GAL, PMA, for 100 days... THEN you can reassess and recommit to it, in another chunk of 100 day increments. IT's enough time to assess whether any change has happened AND it's enough time to manage for you, meaning it's not so long that you can't imagine doing it. You can do this. Who knows? After one or 2 of these 100 day chunks, YOU may be in a good enough place to NOT want to do it for another 100 days b/c you've gone in a new direction...make sense?
j-
I like the idea of the 100 day chunks...thanks for the idea!
I started a new thread today since I received email from H that he initiated D with lawyer.
Maybe 100 days starts now:)