I have a thread on Piecing, but I feel I need to start one here. I need some help. I am thinking of ending the M because H has not responded to anything since reconciliation 5 years ago. Now that I have health issues and really need him to be there in a more meaningful way, I am left feeling rather empty, emotionally. I don't feel his support.
It's over for me. I don't know how I am going to move forward, but I will be doing so. I thought I would write an email first, because these days I tend to bluster when discussing emotional things. An email will give me a chance to think before setting things down.
I have put an example email on me other thread. I will copy it to her as well.
I need some advice! Lately, H has been dismissive, impatient and sometimes sharp in responses with me in conversation or when I ask him something. He has no interest in my life, what I am doing, etc. He has been doing this in front of friends now. I, of course, suspect he has OW. I am tired of it all. Of waiting for him to come around .... it's been 5 years of no change despite the fact that he said things would be better if we came here. I have wasted valuable time on someone who just doesn't care. I could've been doing something else, living a more authentic life without wishing things were different with him. Well, it's done now ... can't bring all that time back. I have to move forward, and I feel it is the right time now, to end this marriage. It's not a real marriage, anyway.
I'm not sure how to proceed. should I email him and lay it out. Or, should I wait until we have a chance to talk? In an email I can think about what I want to say, rather than blustering my way through conversation about the end of our M.
This is what I want to say:
"Dear H, five years ago, you begged me to stay your wife and said coming to this place would be a fresh start. You promised it would all be okay in our M, and that you loved me and wanted us to stay together as a family. You did all you could to get here, then once we were here, you backed off on any promises you made. I have waited patiently for you to be the man I hoped you could be. But, for me, you are not anymore. Maybe for another woman, you might start over and be that man, but I suspect things will start out well, and it will end up just like us because you refuse to change for anyone or even meet one halfway or discuss issues and problems. For me, you are no longer that team player and partner you once were.
So, what to do? I am no longer happy in this M. I haven't been in a very long time. Having the tumour made me initially not want to make any changes, but now when I think of all the wasted years, it makes me want to leave this miserable M and see what life I can make without you, emotionally. Financially and as parents we will always be tied, and I will try my best to lessen the first as much as possible once (I so hope) I get my new career going. You did promise to pay for my classes, but I won't hold you to that. I will try and pay for them out of alimony money. All of that side of the end of our M will have to be discussed and organised. But, I do not expect to leave a pauper, and do expect your children to still have an involved father. If there is another woman, I hope she doesn't take you away from the kids and grandkids. But, that will be up to you.
I am sorry it has come to this. I loved you passionately during our 24 year marriage, but now I just feel sad that I don't love you at all. I care about you as the father of our children, and as a dear friend that I hope we can become eventually. Too many lies and wasted opportunities to set things right, has left me untrusting, and suspicious. And that has killed the love I had. I regret it, but I doubt I can change it, nor if I want to. I just now want the opportunity to live a happy life with what time I have left, and I am hoping for many more years.
So, H, I wish you well. I wish you happiness and I think you will find it if you do some thinking and changing. You cannot live life always hiding from the people you say you love. I am sure none of this is a shock to you. I doubt you love me particularly .... I hope you care about me too .... but I have felt the lack of love and romance and it hurt, but it doesn't anymore. Twenty four years is a long time being together as a couple, so let's end it with dignity, showing the children how it can be done.
Your wife, BM"
Have you talked to him about needing his support emotionally?
Yes, I have, and he says he is giving me emotional support. He is not proactive in his support ... I have to ask for a hug when I need it. There are times I am very fearful, but when I start saying anything, he changes the subject or tells me that I am strong. I know I am, but there are times I just need to voice my fear. This has beenn going on for 2.5 years. My children, thank goodness, are very good at supporting me, especially my son when it was at the worst. H just never seems to be there, but then he doesn't have any emotional investment in losing me, son does.
Does he know HOW you need him to give you that attention? Is it a love languages thing? A miscommunication about what you need in particular?
You would not be here posting this if you were ready to just move on. I hate to see any divorce absent abuse, so I will err on the side of saying "I doubt you've tried everything."
Yes, I can see you are tired and yes, I can see that you are just DONE and want love in your life.
I also see that you are not sure - or am I misreading you?
What is it that you loved about your H initially?
I'm not familiar with your sitch, so please forgive me, but what have you tried, what haven't you tried, what HAS worked, even if for a little while?
How is your communication?
I can see that you might think I am hesitant, but I really (as far as I can recall) have tried everything I know how to save this M. I do think he went through some MLC, and maybe he's not quite out of it yet, but when waiting for him to emerge is taking away precious years that I may not have, I think I can say "it's time to leave." He's wasted enough of my time.
I have told him on several occasions what my LL is, which is quality time together ---- talking about things, anything, where he is completely focused on me, not half on work, or half on the children, etc. But, I NEVER get that. I tried to give him his LL, which was s@x, but now he doesn't want that because I asked him once for us to have it romanitically, that he say he loves me during ML. He couldn't do it, so what does that say about his feelings for me? I have tried discussing our lack of s@x ... he won't talk about it. It has been 1.5 years since last we ML, and that was just before I went in for my brain op. Before that, it was a couple of years.
It's not that I care about having love in my life ... it's that I am living with someone who should love me, and obviously doesn't. And, now I don't either. The only thing that worked was when I had accepted we would divorce 6 years ago, and my D and I were happily preparing and discussing our new home. He said he suddenly realized what he was about to lose, and begged me to stay. I regret staying now. But, I loved him then. That first glow soon faded.
This time, there will be no going back. (This is an awful thing to say, but sometimes I think he's just waiting for my possible early demise, to set him free.)
Being Me,
I am sorry to hear you have reached this place but you need to do what is right for you. I think there comes a point when mlc is no longer a reason or excuse for bad behaviour. Your h is an adult and it is time for him to get the help he needs and be the husband you need. If he cannot do that he may never or if he does you will have wasted more time.
I spent a lot of years standing and now that I am d I see so many great and challenging possibilities for my future.
I know you have tried everything and then some and I know you do not make the decision lightly so I will keep you in my prayers and I know whatever decision you make will be the right one for you.
I'm sorry to hear you explain it that way. You deserve to do what makes you happy, as you have worked hard and tried. So many people reach out and grab happiness at the expense of other people's lives and happiness. You at least fought and fought hard. It's time for you now, if that's where you feel you are at.
I'm so sorry it's come to this point, BeingMe. but it's completely understandable. some people (like my xH and apparently your H) just don't seem to have the capacity to love and support and adjust unselfishly. I wish you peace and clarity as you discern the next steps along your path.
Hi BM, have you sent the email yet? any response?
Not yet, still thinking about what to say, or if I should speak to him face to face.
Ok, so if you still have not sent that email then do not send it as written. IMO, What you wrote is angry and accusatory and that gets no one nowhere.
What is your goal by emailing? do you want to end your M? do you want to attract attention?
My H is very good at being an avoider. I tried many methods to communicate but not much worked. The method I used was to email or write a letter and then follow up and ask for time for a conversation. Of course those conversations were usually just me talking but every once in a while H cracked a litte....
I suggest taking out the anger and accusing words, and including a plan of action. And of course, be ready to follow up.
Yes, the previous one does come across as accusatory, but I don't feel it. I was just laying out the facts. I really just want to move on emotionally. I don't think he loves me, and he hasn't in a long time. You can tell when a man loves someone, and he doesn't. And, now, I don't love him either. He is a great guy, in general. May make someone else happy, but it's too late for us. We could be friends, but never romantic partners again.
Anyway, what do y'all think about the changes below?
"Dear H, five years ago, we came here to make a fresh start, but nothing has changed. In fact, I feel things have gotten worse in our M, if that's possible. I no longer want to live as your wife. Perhaps we can separate, or divorce ... that's up to you. I don't mind living in the same house, if it suits you with all your travelling for work. I hold no grudge, or feel any ambivalence toward you. I just don't want to live in this M that has become a lie. I like you, but I don't feel any romantic love. I suspect you feel the same.
Financially and as parents we will always be tied. All of that side of the M will have to be discussed and organised and I hope with a measure of fairness and respect.
I am sorry it has come to this. I loved you passionately during our 24 year marriage, but now I just feel sad that I don't love you at all. I care about you as the father of our children, and as a dear friend that I hope we can become.
H, I wish you happiness. Twenty four years is a long time being together as a couple, so let's end it with dignity, showing the children how it can be done.
Your wife, BM"
This version would lead me to believe that you are done with your H and just want to move on emotionally. You have written this with a softness yet firm in your feelings.
Just in case, are you prepared for any response other than what you expect?
I am truly sorry your M has come to this point but I do understand knowing you are done.
(((BM)))
I respect that you are paying attention to your heart even through all of the physical issues you are dealing with.
I wish you the best, BM. I believe that you are doing the right thing to be so honest with yourself and H. I imagine that with your situation, "being good to yourself" takes on a whole different meaning.
being
I read your letter
the part about not loving him at all--in paragragh 3 --maybe can be left out
or maybe worded different
just a thought
I also wish you the best
peace
Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate them.
I won't just dump this on him ... he is very stressed over a difficult project. He will be out of town again next week, so there is time to think about this. My next MRi is next Tuesday and my oncology doctor appointment on the 28th June. I am more focused on the outcome of the MRi than my M. I pray for a good outcome. If the worst happens, then there is no point in sending this email. But, I am hopeful, have a positive outlook, I choose life and want to so much live it and do so my way.
Sadly, this M is toxic to me, emotionally. I feel stressed and sad when I think about it. I try to think beyond it, and how that would look like. It has outlived it's "by date" and neither one of us is getting any emotional use out of it. It's like a used toothpaste tube, twisted, and flattened and wrung out as much as it can be and now, there just isn't any toothpaste left to squeeze out. It just lies there in the medicine cabinet, and every now and then taken out to see if anymore paste can be had. Then put back after it is shown that no amount of rubbing, or squeezing, or massaging the tube is going to produce any results. Nothing left except the shape of what was. We needed a new tube, but couldn't decide on the brand, and now the teeth is going, and still we can't get it together.
I think if we really loved each other, we would find a way. But, not even this tumour has enabled him to find a way to express his love and devotion to me. Yes, he is upset, and sad about it (or, he was at the beginning, but now it has become "you are strong, BM" which I am, but sometimes I want some emotional, husbandly comfort, a chance to lean on him and lend his strength, but it's just not there).
Anyway, there is no rush to end the M ... sometime this year. I try to live my life as best I can under these circumstances. No choice, really.
Here is my revised email: "Dear H, five years ago, we came here to make a fresh start, but nothing has changed. In fact, I feel things have gotten worse in our M, if that's possible. I no longer want to live as your wife. Perhaps we can separate, or divorce ... that's up to you. I don't mind living in the same house, if it suits you with all your travelling for work. It would save money.
I hold no grudge, or feel any ambivalence toward you. I just don't want to live in this M that has become a lie. I like you, but I don't feel any romantic love. I suspect you feel the same.
Financially and as parents we will always be tied. All of that side of the M will have to be discussed and organised and I hope with a measure of fairness and respect.
I am sorry it has come to this. I loved you passionately during our 24 year marriage, but now I just feel sad and disconnected. I care about you as the father of our children, and as a dear friend that I hope we can become. I surely do need the comfort of friends at this time.
H, I wish you happiness. Twenty four years is a long time being together as a couple, so let's end it with dignity, showing the children how it can be done.
Your wife, BM"
I'm so sorry it's come to this point, BeingMe. but it's completely understandable. some people (like my xH and apparently your H) just don't seem to have the capacity to love and support and adjust unselfishly. I wish you peace and clarity as you discern the next steps along your path.
Thanks Hmama! I do need clarity, that's for sure. But, life does not always grant clarity, peace or any other assurances. We can only pray for it and hope that that is what we will get. Otherwise, we can only do what we think is right. My main hope now is for healing in my body, aim for a reconnection with my spirit, and emotional healing with or without H. My children are my greatest blessing and with that I am happy.
Found ya. I'm so sorry it's come to this BeingMe...you are an amazing woman. Your last version of the letter is as well put as a letter of its sort can be. Best wishes on your MRI...my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Thank you Aud. Appreciate your prayers.
Here is the sad thing ... if I had enough money to support myself, I would just quietly pack my things and leave. I think that would appeal to him since there would be no discussion, no "confrontation", just over. That's what I think about these days. But, of course, I couldn't leave my D17. Well, I would ask him to leave then. AAAAAGGGGGHH!!!
I mentioned the MRi this morning, that it's next Tuesday. He knows how I hate having them. He said nothing. Note: he will be away on business from Monday for a few days. Yay! I got the bed to myself.
I know, that's mean, isn't it.
being
do you wat ch Joel Olsteen
I love his messagesHope you are doing ok
peace
Thanks Peace, I am ok. I just vent a little here and there, just to get rid of the negative thoughts. I am actually quite a happy person, love life, am curious about divinity and the wondrous things that may happen in the next life. I have no deep fears, just a little scared sometimes, but that is not unusual. My faith oscillates between deep certainty, to nothing at all. Sometimes I am in a dark valley just seeing the next step, and other times high on the mountain peaks where I can see far ahead. Presently, I am climbing a mountain.
No, I don't watch Joel Olsteen. I'm not into televangelists, at all. But, just your message, hoping that I am ok makes me feel so. Thank you.
This is why I continue to be on this bb. Just for those messages of hope and peace.
A strong positive mental attitude will create more miracles than any wonder drug. - Patricia Neal
I have to keep remembering this quote by Patricia Neal. I feel so much better when I am feeling positive about the future.
I have sent the email. We had a discussion last night ... a very short one. So, I thought it would be a good idea to just send it because it is so difficult to talk to him. It is more or less as I put it last with some extra thoughts.
I am just so sad ... for me, it is the end of our M. I tried so hard, waited so long. Time to move on and get myself a new life.
Wish me luck.
BeingMe,
Sometimes it is better putting things down on paper and presenting it to them. Their minds are all over the place and they only hear what they want to hear when you are speaking to them. Yes, it's understandable that it would be difficult speaking to him because you don't know what his reaction or nonreaction will be to what you are saying.
You've done everything you can and you've done well in attempting to salvage your marriage, but unless he wakes up and makes every effort to repair the damage, it will only be a one-sided effort. God has a lot of work to do w/your h. He's got to find himself, be content w/the person he is now and accept those issues that he had no control over when he was a child. He needs to learn that not everything comes in a wrapped package w/a bow on top and trust me, he will in time.
As for you, continue to move forward. Live your life to the fullest and know that God is watching over you and will guide you. He has a special plan for you and he will reveal it when he's ready.
BeingMe--I imagine you are a ball of anxiety today, waiting for your appointment (tomorrow, right?) and the MRI results. I'm so sorry you are going through all this alone after being with someone for 24 years and sharing your lives.
I know what it's like to continually be told "you're so strong" in the midst of crisis, when all you really want to do is just lean on someone else--even briefly--so you don't HAVE to be so strong, to share the feelings and be supported.
Hoping for miracles for you--they do happen. and they don't always look like what we expect. you've always been so supportive of me here--I wish the same support for you.
Dear BM, yes the last five years have been tough, I am sorry I dragged you out here, the intention was to start over, and I did try but obviously not hard or long enough. I don’t blame you for wanting to call it quits and it is probably time.
I have been struggling with a lot of stuff, most or all of it you know about. There was/is your illness, us of course, then D23 and S23 to a much lesser degree and I am also facing losing my parents which is affecting me more than I ever
thought that it would. I am having a very negative effect on myself, so understand that it is not good for you at all either. I have tried pulling myself out of it but have not been successful. I tried going to a counsellor again but as usual it was not much help.
So anyway, yes it is time to call it quits. I would say let’s just sell the house and square everything up and you take what is left to buy another smaller place before making it official, but I think now may not be a good time to sell, although it looks like a good time to buy. I guess we will have to continue to stay in the house for a while. I will try to get all the stuff finished so that we can get it sold sometime in the fairly near future, if the market changes.
Yes I want to continue to be the best friends possible and yes I want to be as fair as possible financially, and absolutely I want to continue to support you as best I can with your illness.
This is the email I received from my H. I was unaware of most of his issues, at least, the depth of it. I did not even know he had seen a C. He shares nothing of his feelings, never had, and probably never will. As he said, it is time to call it quits. He is a man caught in the headlights of a oncoming train, and cannot move one way or another. That's how it feels anyway. I still think there is more going on, but I don't care anymore.
Thanks for the replies. Hmama, yes I am somewhat fearful about the MRI results. I am trying not to be.
I'm so sorry, BM. what crummy timing.
As for you, continue to move forward. Live your life to the fullest and know that God is watching over you and will guide you. He has a special plan for you and he will reveal it when he's ready.
Thanks Snodderly. I do feel that God is watching over me most of the time. Sometimes, I just feel somewhat alone, but I have friends I can talk to and I have this site to vent. Thank goodness for this place.
I'm sorry about the MRI and I do hope that everything goes well.
As for your h, he is paddling against the tide and he realizes that he's not able to move forward or backward. Such a shame for him to think that calling it quits will make things better. Divorcing you will not fix his issues, but he will have to figure that one out.
I'm very sorry about the timing and how he's going about all of this.
Just so y'all know ... I am the one that brought up the issue of separating/divorce. I finally sent him that email. My H did not fight against it though. I guess, I am a WAW now. Never thought it would happen, but there you are, leave a flower dry long enough and it will die.
I don't consider you a WAW. You are a human being who has dealt w/a lot of stuff over the years and your h is lost in the land of MLC/depression and can't seem to find his way out. You've done all you can do for him, the marriage and now you have to look out for you.
If you allow his depression to bring you down into the dark pit w/him, you'll never get out. You are doing what is right for you and you only. Many of us have been right where you are now...
Please take care of yourself.
I just realized that all H's excuses/reasons manifested itself around 2 years after we moved here to make a new start (certainly the issues with D23). Except our R - the problems there got dragged along with us. So I think he was never going to do anything about it. A strong M would've withstood the issues he has brought up ... ya know, the united we are stronger scenario. That is what I had hoped for in coming out here, to give him the opportunity to prove he could do it (make the changes), prove he can be trusted. I am still amazed he went into counselling, and I didn't know. I guess he only went once, and expected all problems to be solved from that meeting.
There's probably no point in trying to analyze his email to me. He says he will be fair, will support me as a friend with my health, and I will hold him to that. Although, he often promises things and doesn't keep them. So, we will see.
I am wondering whether we should tell the children. There would have to be some explanation since I want him to move out of our bedroom. I guess we can talk about it after the doctor's appointment tomorrow.
Being,
I do hope all goes well with the MRI.
Depending on how you feel after Dr. appt tomorrow, I would wait to talk to th ekids. Your call, you have alot on your plate though.
HUGS
Being Me,
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
(((Hugs)))
BeingMe--hope you're hanging in there, and that you got good news today about your MRI.
BM, I hope your appt went well, sending cyber boosts to you.
Your H almost sounds relieved in his email that you initiated a discussion about calling it quits. If he has always been the type to bottle things inside then most likely he has no clue how to handle your illness and he feels better to be done.
I hope you keep kicking butt on your illness and then kick up your heels in good health!
Thanks everyone. Yes, I kicked butt ... there is no sign of the tumour, and doc has put me on yearly MRI's instead of the 6 monthly ones. Yessssss! Apparently, the dye they inject into your veins is quite heavy on one's kidneys, so they don't like to do them too often. But, they will keep an eye on the kidneys too. Miracles do happen, and I feel this is one.
Yeah, I also thought my H is finding it hard to support me in the way I need, and that he is probably relieved to "just be friends". We chatted on the way home (it's a 2 hour drive to the city where the doctor is) about his issues, and how we will go about the getting the S. It's going to be in stages because we have to get our house sold in order for me to buy a smaller place, and he doesn't need a place now since he can travel from job to job. I don't mind. As I said to him, I have no emotional feelings for him, so am very comfortable with him in the house. I like him as a person, and find I can be friends with him. I told him if he ever meets anyone sometime, then he can just get the D going, and I'll be happy to comply. We will tell the children when the house goes up for sale, or thereabouts.
He is worried and depressed about his parents deteriorating health, and ages, and being so far away from them. He was worried about us too, so now he has two things less to worry about ... my health and our R. I can't do anything about his other issues. And, I think there are things he is not disclosing, but quite honestly, once we have a SA in place, I really won't care, except as a friend and a concerned co-parent.
So, I think I will encourage him to get an official SA settled, then we can live as friends and parents then move on once the house is sold. It's actually quite a relief for me too. Just to be done.
Again, thanks for all the good thoughts, prayers, etc.
Being Me - Praise the Lord! Wonderful to hear the good news.
(((Hugs)))
so glad to hear the news! and thanking God.
So glad to hear your good health news!
As long as you're both willing, I would push to get a formal agreement in place BEFORE hard feelings (for whatever reasons) may surface and complicate things.
Thanks Seeking and Hmama! I do thank God for this miracle.
Today, my baby girl graduated high school. I cannot believe how fast time went. She will be away most of the summer, and I am planning a trip back to the home country for half the summer. S23 will continue on with college --- welding. H will be starting a new project soon in north Ontario and then in China.
We will have time in July to talk about things ... he says I can have everything, but I know he's just saying that and I sure don't want everything (I still said to him that "you say that now, but down the road you'll probably change your tune"). I want a proper SA in place with alimony coming into my bank account regularly, so I can organize my own finances long before we actually separate physically. This, while he is being generous.
I think I will try and get a half-day job just to help with school. D17 will be starting uni in the fall, and I would prefer H spend the money on her than on my classes.
This is still so new and so strange. He still wanted to kiss/hug me hullo and good-bye or goodnight, etc., but I don't initiate, so he has stopped. Sure got the hint. I have stopped saying ILY (no point because I don't) --- he got that hint too so has stopped saying ILY after phone calls. He has remained in the bed ... will probably leave if I tell him, but it is the more comfy bed, so I haven't had the heart to kick him out just yet.
He is planning a trip to his brother in Florida with D17 at the end of the year. So, I will be alone around Christmas time unless S23 is home. I don't mind really. I could try and go visit D30 in Germany.
Funny thing while going through Facebooks of various people on H's facebook ---- came across OW's Facebook. And, I felt nothing. Well, maybe a little bit curious, but otherwise, nothing. No sinking of the stomach (happened when I just thought about her), no heart palpitations, nothing. Now that is progress indeed.
You are wise BeingMe to get the SA into place while H is being generous. Upon walking out my H also said I could have everything. He had no interest in any of it. It's been 9 months now and his tune has changed. Guess he's having a bit of reality check and thinking about all he's really giving up. Apparently guilt only lasts so long.
oh sweety_))))) sorry to hear you here... but if this will help you live a fuller life then so be it, life is too short
Just noticed H's wedding ring is off. Don't know for how long. Oh well, I know for sure now that he's not going to fight for the marriage. Quite a relief, because he kept denying his disinterest, and that he doesn't love me, so I thought I might have a problem on my hands. By his actions and mood, though, I think I am doing the right thing for him too. He seems lighter, happier, as if a load has been lifted. I'm glad. He doesn't have to prove anything to me anymore; he's free as I am. Sadly, I didn't want him to prove anything; I just wanted him to be honest, and I guess he couldn't be that and married. I knew there was something off. I am glad that I am free of my love for him, at last. It has caused me more pain than joy.
We are busy fixing the house, so it can be put up for sale, although it's rather a buyer's market. So, we'll have to tread carefully. We're going to need every cent if we go through S and D.
BeingMe,
I've been keeping up with what is going on... although I haven't had an idea of what to say in support for you. You are taking things so calmly, you are amazing.
I hope you have a very happy 4th!
BM,
I know that some people advocate being friends, but I think it is better if you can step away for a while, to get rid of the "us."
BM,
I'm sorry that things have turned out the way that they have for you and your family. He's still suffering in the "me" mode and cannot be honest w/you about anything. He may not be honest w/you for a while. He's the happy camper just thinking about selling the home, etc., and this has been a painful journey for you.
If being friendly w/him will help you finalize everything in a "smooth manner", that's okay. Being best buds isn't in the cards right now and may not be ever. You just don't know what the future holds. Friendly doesn't mean he's your best bud. You can be friendly to a stranger looking for directions on the street or chatting w/your bank teller. You may want to look at your h as someone lost on the street or a newspaper delivery man, if that will help you distance yourself a bit more from him. True friends do not treat friends the way that they did...
I hope you are doing okay.
I know that some people advocate being friends, but I think it is better if you can step away for a while, to get rid of the "us."
They do? Or they advocate being civil?
If they advocate being friends, can you be one of those friends you never hear from except when they want something ... like to borrow money?
My 2 personal favorites cause they are tied:
"I have enough friends right now...lets be enemies!"
"I have enough friends right now...I'll call you when one dies."
I agree with being civil.
Jack!
Bingo! Civil is the word that I was looking for.
Being civil is always a good idea. That's one of the problems with the world ... less civility.
Being civil is always a good idea. That's one of the problems with the world ... no civility.
That's where I stand. I have no problem being civil with my STBXW (been a bit tough getting it returned).
I have no intention of being her friend because, well... let's face it, I'd have to be a bad friend... the kind that never calls unless they need something. Better to set her free and be civil and compassionate than to try to be her friend.
TH,
It is about breaking the "us," but it is also good for you and that is where the focus needs to be. Yes, you can be civil but good to keep it all business where possible.
Too easy to stay unhealthfully attached when you are friends. One person usually wants more. I do believe you need to become friends again if you are standing and want to get back together, but that might not be in the cards for a while for many people.
Bingo! Civil is the word that I was looking for.
As in "Civil" war?
"I hate the word, as I hate Hell, all Montagues and thee" Tybalt
I believe Tybalt Prince of Cats was speaking of the word "Peace."
Awesome quote though...one of my favorites.
... and back to my issues.
H is in Ontario now ... back on Thursday night. He continues to call and let me know what's happening every day. He has stopped saying ILU at the end of conversations, as I had done. It seems he is mirroring me, rather than discussing things. This is not unusual for him. He cannot or will not initiate anything.
I will be requesting a SA agreement soon. I thought I would wait until after informing the children, then I think things will move fast then. H doesn't like things out in the open, but he is going to have a full blast of fresh air pretty soon.
His brother is coming for a few days in August ... he has been going through a D himself, but it has all been amiable. I hope to keep mine the same way.
My D30 has asked me to come stay with them in Germany for a few months once their baby is born. I would love to go help them, so I am thinking seriously about it.
An extended stay in Germany sounds lovely--especially if you will be left home alone around the holidays. I'm sure your D will much appreciate your help, and new baby snuggles are priceless.
I hope things continue to move smoothly and that you are finding the peace you've sought for a long time.
Love and hugs.
Thanks Aud. Yes, indeed, grandkids are the best.
I've learned something profound these last few years .... the tighter one hangs on to something or someone, you're bound to get to the point of squeezing it/them to death, figuratively and emotionally speaking. The opposite of, "if you love something, set it free ...." This includes adult children, friends, houses, spouses, dreams, and so on.
Obsessing over something is cutting oneself off to other, possibly better, options and opportunities. Just enjoy the moment, the person, the object without any expectations of true ownership. I wrote the above on my FB.
I have grown so much over the last 6 or 7 years, through my H's EA, the advice given here on the board, from my dear friends, putting good 180's into action, and through my illness. I have truly tried all I can to save my M, while still hanging onto some semblance of self worth. Unless he changes in some way that tells me with certainty that he loves me .... no, not even that will do it. It's time to set him and myself free. We have to disconnect financially, as we are disconnected emotionally. There is nothing left on which I can start to build up the R.
I reconnected with an ex boyfriend a couple of weeks ago --- one who I often thought of and wondered "what if". I am happy to report that I felt nothing, just interest in what he's been doing, and nothing else. He is divorced, but I just felt sadness for him to have gone through that, but he does have a gf. So, I am free of past emotions and attachments and present ones. It is a great feeling. I can just be myself and not have to be concerned how what I do will affect anyone else (except my children and grand-children of course, but that's a different attachment altogether; one that brings me extreme pleasure).
There's muh thoughts for the day.
so well put, being
we have to set them free..no holding on to anything
we need to find ways to create the life we want
and those who wish not to stay or thyose we chose to not be with
it is all ok
we move on lovingly let go
easier said --but it is the way
peace
I haven't been on my own thread in awhile, so let me do some journalling ...
I am worried about my H. I think he is very depressed but won't take medication that the IC recommended. He has not gone back to the IC, and has only gone once, so I don't know how I can convince him to go again, and to take the medication. He tells me the IC told him that 30 minutes in the gym or running everyday is as good as the medication, but he does that sporadically. So, I told him that he should take the medication, then when he feels better, he will be more motivated to go to the gym or run. It seemed that he listened because the logic is sound and he is one who likes logical arguments. He couldn't fault it anyway. I spoke to him last night while driving to the airport (2.5 hours away) ... can't run away from a moving vehicle (hehehehehe). It started with my stating that I want the separation to be official since he may be taking a job that will keep him away for 9 months (with one plane ticket home in that time). I want to be free to pursue what I want and not have to worry about being attached. The SA will, of course, result in a D eventually, I have decided. Nine months is a long time away from one's home, and he could find someone else to love ... we just don't know ... he denies that possibility. I, too, may find someone else ... who knows. [I mentioned an ex-boyfriend who I have come in contact with, and that I felt nothing for him. It took me a long time to get over his breaking off with me, and his reason (which he told me now) was that he was very much under his mother's influence at that time. He now says he was very sorry. I was glad to hear the apology, which was a long time coming .... 30 years. He is divorced now, but he has a gf, and I have no intention of starting anything except a friendship, and it sounds like that is his intention too. He lives in Europe anyway. He cannot be trusted with my heart again. Same with my H. I feel there is no going back. It's a pity my H didn't feel the same thing when he had this EA with his high school flame.]
I'm trying to understand the reason for his depression which has come on in the last few months (according to him). He has been distant and lacked intimacy with me since he broke off with OW, but he denies it, so I think the depression has been there since then, but worsening. He said he had been trying to reconcile, but I didn't see it. I think in his mind he was trying, and I don't read minds. I told him he should've made sure that I was aware, even if he had to shout it out. Not his style I guess, perhaps he wasn't doing enough, and now the love is gone, but I still feel my vows strongly ... in sickness and in health ... can't leave him while he is like this.
It seems he feels that everything is happening all at once ... his mom's altzheimers; his dad fell (but he's okay now); my illness (but, I am fine now, and I rarely leaned on him since he wasn't there to lean on, so I don't see the issue there); he feels he's not good at his job anymore (I think this is just a pity party, and he gets headhunters all the time ... bad workers don't get that) ... he feels desperate to make more money so that he can pay for D17's uni fees, but also to help D23 if she needs to leave bf or to study; this is the daughter he is worried about who has made a bad choice in mate and is now 23 with two little girls (one almost 3, the other just turned 1, and a boy due on Oct. 1); S23 is also a source of worry. He just seems to feel as if his whole world is collapsing and everything is happing at the same time.
I tried to tell him that life should be a joyful thing, that he cannot control the choices others make (not even his children), that all he can do is support them emotionally, but we know how bad he is at doing that (and sometimes financially), that to remember that family and friends are the important things in life, not a job. Jobs are there to get money to support that which
is important. He even started saying that he is a failure as a husband, in fact he is a failure with everything ... whereupon I interrupted him that that is just silly ... how can one be a failure at
everything ... he does this a lot .... I asked him why does he do this? No real answer.
Which brings me back to IC and medication. He should take it so that he can feel better and see how life can be so wonderful. I told him that I miss the old H, the one who could overcome everything. He says he misses his old self too. He doesn't feel like doing the things he usually like, for example, riding his bike, or working on the house. He's just not the same, and he hasn't been since the EA. I asked him if he still wishes that he had had a life with her, and if he did that it's too bad that it was with me. I was there, and she wasn't. Nothing can be changed in the past, but we can try and look at the happy times, and lean on that. [Of course, if he had lived his life with OW, it could've been worse, one just can't play that game of "if only".] He did say that we had some good times ... gee, thanks. [Most of the bad times was initiated by his selfishness regarding porn, working away from home then thinking he could take over on weekends, withholding info that was important for me to know, etc. but I didn't even go there ... pointless since he doesn't think those things mattered, that it was me withholding s*x and being miserable that was the cause, and I was that because ....... it's an unending circle of whose at fault.] It doesn't matter anymore. The time after the so-called R matters and I did say that his behavior over the last 5/6 years has slowly killed my love for him, until it is gone. However, I still regarded him as family, and that I regarded our friendship and co-parenthood/grandparenthood as precious. I told him I was sad about losing that love, but I had tried to hang on, but it was impossible in the end to maintain with little return. He said he didn't want to S, that it was me that wants it. He said he wasn't interested in finding someone else, and that I had said the same thing, so why bother getting S'ed?! I have to say that that was a good question, but I have come to think that there is no point being tethered to someone who is not into you. Who knows, once we are free, we just might find people who we can love again. Unlikely for me, but who knows. I think he is afraid of that freedom.
There was more, but in the end I told him that I still care about him, but I can't control what he is going through, so please to let me know if he needs my help. He actually said thanks. Oh, for a H who actually talks and tells you of his problems and issues. How easy it would've been! But, again, I am no mind reader, and he is no talker.
Well, there's my update. I'm not sure what my next step should be. I think helping him get over this depression is the major thing. It all depends on what project he'll be on. In the meantime, I am still at uni, summer break almost over and we start again on Sep 7, so I will be pre-occupied with that; D17 going to the same uni; also need to be where my daughters live to help with the other grandkids so that they can concentrate on their babies (my eldest D30 is due Feb 5 and she is in Germany, so I'll take an online poetry course while there). I am so excited about my life despite H's depression. I guess it helps that I am emotionally disconnected from him. It was becoming toxic, until I finally realized I don't love him anymore and that I don't need to allow his misery to affect my life. Still, there is that vow, so I will have to help him as I would any family member.
Sorry this is so long. If you got this far, thanks for reading.
I did read to the end, not sure what to say.
You do seem determined with a purpose now, no more limbo. That's a place where a lot of people want to be - out of limbo.
Yet this depression of his drags me back in. He is, after all, the father of my children, and I am finding it difficult to walk away while he is in this condition.
Thanks for replying, WCW. I guess there isn't much one can advise. I'm just going to have to figure this out on my own. It is good to set down my thoughts, however, on a now and then basis.
So, H is still away. We talk on the phone everyday. We are going away for a weekend with friends the weekend after next. I still don't feel anything in a romantic/intimate sense for him. When I think of going to have a romantic weekend, and possibly a candlelit dinner, walking along the beach, etc. ... you know, all the romantic stuff that some couples do .... I just feel it would be more fun on my own. I don't feel excited about him coming home ... just feel ... nothing ... like, ugh, I have to share my bed again ... what a downer. I feel bad about that ... guilty, because he does work hard to support our family. But there is more to a M, then working for the family. I used to work too, and I didn't mind at all ... in boring jobs, whereas he had the interesting career ... now he's fed-up with it. I guess he has the right to be tired of his job.
Whatever ... don't know what else to say, or report. I have no real complaints because I have pretty much made up my mind. I just want to know what to do about his depression, if anything???
First, I don't believe there is anything YOU can do for his depression, except for support him through it. He tells you he won't do this and he won't do that. Ask him what he WILL do. In order for you to remain by his side at this time, he has to show you some positives.
You seem to be doing great, although you seem somewhat resentful of being held back by H at this time. This, too, may pass. I suggest you get a good MC and tell him that is part of the bargain, non negotiable. I know if and when my H ever finds his way home, that is going to be an indisputable boundary for me.
You are right, Punkin, I can't do anything for his depression. I will ask him what he will do for
himself. I was quite worried as I said above, but I know now that there isn't much I can do except be there as much as I can. He is family, after all, and we have few here in North America. I
am a little resentful of being held back now. I have just gotten through a huge health thing, and I feel I have my life back, and now
he is finding life miserable, while I am so happy to be alive. If I am lucky, I may get another 5 years, since this sort of disease can come back, and I have 30% chance of making it to 10 years. As it is, I still have to worry about yearly MRI's, which is great because the doc had me on doing them every 6 months, daily medication that leaves me tired, and so on. But, life is good, and I am so joyous about being here still. I just want to sing and dance, except I'm a lousy singer, but I do when no-one is around.
Every now and then, I do a little gig ... my kids think I am a little nuts. I laugh a lot, I tease and kid a lot. But, it doesn't help him. For the first time that I can remember, I am free, I am my true self because I don't have to worry that I might lose someone because of my actions or hurt someone's feelings. My thoughts aren't constantly about him anymore. I get my vent out here, then happily go about my business. Ha!
I don't want to be married to H anymore .... I don't love him in that way anymore. He has had 5 years of my staying and hoping that things will change, but he has not. Two of those years, I was really really sick, so I had no choice but to stay. He was there sometimes ... my kids were the ones mostly there for me, especially emotionally speaking. They are the ones who saw most of the seizures, my son went to a lot of my appointments, drove me everywhere because I wasn't allowed to drive. H was shut off from me, as usual (I know, I know, he had to work, and his work takes him away from home frequently --- I don't have a problem with that ---- it's just that I wish that the stupid cancer could've found a way for him to be able to say the things I want from my H, do the romantic things I wanted him to do, yadda yadda yadda). There were times I thought he was resentful of my being ill. But, as he kept saying, and he's right, I am strong. I needed to be.
We tried the MC ... we went once. All he said was, "I'm sorry about what I did." And that was that. He folded his arms, and said nothing more. He expected me to move on, as if nothing had happened. To accept his apology, and trust him again. I guess I was supposed to be grateful for having my H back (although he never left physically), but I don't think I got him back, not the one I married. I struggled to improve myself, make myself more interesting, being happy, moving to another city for a 'new beginning' (I was happy in our old city), doing all the things that DB'ing told me to do, and I get this sad sack back which is fine in the beginning, but 5 years on and there is still no change. I have tried various things, suggested stuff, but he never sounded enthusiastic about it. If he wants to go to counselling, he's going to have to find one and set up the appointment. And, he will have to do all the talking ... I am done talking. I am not going to do one more thing to get him back, because I don't want him back except as a friend. I told him at the end of our conversation, that if he wanted my help, he must just ask.
Thanks for posting, Punkin. Vent out ....
BeingMe,
I take it your H wasn't always this way? Was he ever the romantic type?
Has he ever gone to the doctor and had his Testosterone levels checked? From what I understand most Dr's. don't check them automatically.
Being Me, you mentioned that H has been like this since the EA ended, do you think the reason he went into the EA in the first place was due to his depression, looking for answers? Some guys drink to hide depression, some womanize etc. Both you and H have enormous stresses to face these days (which I read about earlier) and I can certainly understand why he's depressed. I know you're frustrated about the medication he won't take, some guys find it hard to take meds, it's a pride thing. No advice, just thinking out loud and letting you know I'm around!
Keep us posted!
BM,
Here is what I see. You still love him. I see it mentioned that if he would reciprocate, things could be different.
I don't blame you. Iknow you have tried and are emotinally spent. I just notice that you do have feelings for him.
I wish you the best. I know you will make it either way.
Thanks for posting SA, Wii, and TT. I appreciate your viewpoints on my sitch.
H was never the romantic type, but he tried on occasion. I'm not wanting romance all the time, but it would be nice to have closeness, intimacy without s*x necessarily. I don't believe a man cannot learn to be romantic, and I have never asked for much. Maybe that's the problem. I've always been accommodating to his needs, while he rarely is that way with me. For instance (and I may have already posted this, so, sorry for the repeat), he imagines that helping with the housework is every girls dream H, but no, I don't care whether he does or not (nice to have, but I can do without). My LL is quality time, being with each other and just talking, having his attention on me and no-one else. Selfish, I know, but that's what I like, and it was rarely granted. And, yes, I have told him this many, many times, in various ways, including with spoken words, email, over the phone, notes, etc.
The doctor has not checked his testosterone levels, that I know of. He may not be comfortable talking to me about it. I wonder if he will even ask for the tests from the doc .. I will ask. No harm in trying.
You know, Wii, it didn't occur to me that he might've been depressed before the EA. I was going through my own MLC, read change, rather than crisis. I had turned inwards, trying to see where I fit in the universe, with children growing older, some leaving, etc. He was quite young, and I never thought he would turn away .... he never said anything that I could hear. Suddenly, he was completely severed from me emotionally, and as I found out later (after much confusion, and lying) he was attached to OW. He did say that she made him feel good, even from a distance. It took about a year before he ended it himself, but here he is, still not the old H, and not one to which I wish to be married.
TT, you get the idea that I am still in love with my H. I don't feel in love. It's been a long journey, and a lot of pain, and I haven't wanted to admit to myself for the longest time, that I have no intimate feelings for him anymore. Could I fall back in love with him? Probably, but he would have to do some serious work. It's not just the EA that has been a problem in our M ... there have been other very hurtful issues, but I never gave up on him, until now. It's just too much, too long, and he hasn't tried (in my opinion) to win me back at all. He just assumes I will instantly forgive, and more importantly, forget and trust. He thinks that is part of being in love, but it's not. When you keep hurting your spouse over and over again, and you know that the things you do, if found out, will hurt her, and damage the trust and love she has, then I wonder if that spouse will ever change, ever really care to do any work. He was very quick to say, "yes, perhaps it's time to call it quits," when I sent him the email, so I think there is a level of relief for him ... 'cause he ain't into me one little bit, except as a friend, a listener of all his work troubles (because, of course, I am fascinated by the software development industry, and I sure don't mind at all when he yawns when I am explaining my interests ... oh well, some friend), and as a co-parent/grandparent.
'nuff said, for now. As you say, TT, I will make it either way.
It's my birthday today. Another year lived, another year gone by where nothing in my M has happened. I did get the standard red roses and spa card. I appreciate it and look forward to having that massage. I know he thinks he is being romantic, and for him it is. But, there is no excitement for me, no spontaneity or surprises, and still no intimacy on an emotional or physical level.
Still, it's a good day to be alive. I am blessed considering that there was a possibility that I may not have made it, as my roommate at the cancer Lodge did not. I still think about her and wish she could've been cured or had more time, but it was her time to go. I try to enjoy each day as a precious gift.
I will be off to see my new grandchild next week for two weeks. He was born a couple of weeks ago. I wish my daughter lived closer, so I could be of more help to her. It's not easy having 3 kids under the age of three.
Take care, y'all.
Happy Birthday BR!
I just read your thread and I agree with Tulsa...you still love him.
Having said this, I think you always will. You appear to have tried everything you possible could have. You appear content in your life right now.
I agree that a M with no intimacy is bound to fail in the long run.
As you have said...you will be fine either way. My only advice...what ever you decide to do...make sure it is REALLY want you want to do.
God Bless,
Eric
BeingMe,
Happy belated birthday sweetie!
I love red roses! I used to receive them 3 times a year. H sent them on my birthday, on Valentine's Day, and our anniversary.
I haven't had that gesture for a year now. I did buy some for myself once, but all they did is made me cry.
I hope you enjoyed your bday, the flowers, and the massage to come!
Happy Belated Birthday! I was just catching up on your thread.
My husband always sent me roses, too. Red ones. I like yellow. He got is right once in twenty years.
Try and put this chit out of your mind and enjoy that grandbaby. Maybe if your D can't move closer to you, you should consider moving closer to her. I've found the grands are a great way to occupy my mind.(Keeping them from destroying my house)But I love them, and they love me, unconditionally.
My youngest daughter just turned 18. I can't believe time has gone by so fast. She makes me so proud, just being the young lady that she is. My H made it back that day for her birthday. He had been to China on business, and he is still jet-lagged.
Loving school. The weather has been great. Visited my middle daughter after the birth of our first grandson. He is very, very cute.
Life goes on!
So, H and I are in the throes of putting our SA together. We had an argument ... quite intense, since he never argues, just walks away. I know now what he thinks of me. I may still have feelings, but he is quite devoid of any for me, and as I have stated many times on this board and to him ... this has been going on for 5 years since EA. He says he tried, but I didn't see any trying. He says I have a twisted mind. Nice of him to refer to my brain since a tumor has just recently occupied it, so it could literally be twisted. Who knows!?
The last straw was his traveling for work ... it was supposed to be 2 weeks between 5 or 6 weeks. No problem. I could handle this while we try and work on our issues. But, in the last few months he has been home around a week in a month. I am just so lonely. This is not what I signed up for when we moved to this place. If we were a happy couple, then it wouldn't be so bad ... I would look forward to him coming home, and we would be happy for that one week or so, but now it's just miserable. I told him, I'm done, and he is happy for it to be so. My friends tell me not to do so, but he hasn't asked me to change my mind. I will not ask him to change his again. I went down that road 5 years ago, and look what it got me. So, this is it ... the end. I am sad, but I know I will find a new life without him. I am also sad because all my kids are on the way out too.
Dash it all! Can nothing in my life be settled? Friends came to visit this last week, so H had to sleep in my bed. Well, we ML for the first time in almost 2 years ... twice in that week. I thought I was over it all, but it seems TulsaTime was right ... I do still love him, but I had so suppressed it, that I couldn't feel anything. And now that we have ML, it all comes out. I can't take this anymore.
I asked him if he still wanted to separate, and he said that it's probably a good idea to do so, that we had been through so much crap. I kinda agree with him. But then there cannot be any lovemaking. Now he's away for three weeks overseas. I don't want to think about this anymore.
The confusion continues. Thanks, those who read this, I needed the stress dump.
(((BM)))
I know you're tired of life as it is, but it feels like you are pushing for a final answer. Be sure you are ready for an outcome you do not want if you continue to push.
ML - women want an emotional connection before ML while men want ML to feel an emotional connection.
Thanks WCW. You are right ... I do want answers, but perhaps I will never have them. I will try to stop pushing. I have let go of the rope, again again again and again. I am trying very hard to just be .... be happy, be at peace, be loving, be satisfied, be content with my life. If he goes ahead with the S, then so be it. I will worry about that when the bridge appears, and I have to cross it.
It's so hard to do this when he is thousands of miles away. But, even at home, I still don't know what he's thinking, or feeling. The ML was just a shock for me because of how long since we last did it. I don't know why now, or even if it will happen again. I will let go of that too, unless I decide to try and woo him back.
BeingMe,
There is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting answers, but when a person is in crisis, you will never get the answers you want. They are just a confused, jumbled up mess and even they can't figure things out. It's difficult to "read" them...do not try to do so or you will be just as confused as they are.
I'll offer up the same advice to you as I do to others...sit quietly and the answers will come and fall right into your lap. The harder you try to find them, the harder it will be to see them. I know it's difficult to just let things be, but you must in order to take care of yourself, i.e., well being.
Let things be....the answers will come. Drop the rope and focus on you and what you need in order to continue your journey at this time.
Thanks for your reply Snodderly ... I respect yours and WCW's advice. I will try to do as you say. I thought I had been sitting quietly for the past 5 years, but I think that was just an outward facade. Inside, I was fighting with him, trying to anticipate or determine his answers or what was going on. He definitely hides things from me, such as when he went to a psychologist.
I will back off and stop the inner fighting, and focus on other things. If he truly loves me, he will come back. If not, then I had other things to take up my time and will continue with that.
WCW, as a woman, I would disagree. Women also want ML to feel an emotional connection, specially when you feel that you arelosing it. before I had problems, I was sort of losing interest and it became so-so, but when I felt him slipping away, it surprisingly revived our ML. Now I feel that it is partially saving our relationship.
BM,
I started reading your thread - and I could see myself in your situation 5 years from now. I am also 5 years older than my H and he has just ended his EA - not for us, mind you, more for selfish reasons (he could not take it anymore, the combination of guilt, being rejected by the OW, etc.).
I guess 5 years of waiting is enough to drive anyone crazy. I would probably give up earlier. But really, there's nothing much to do except live your life and not be anticipating every move of his. Easy to say, but hard to do. Also, perhaps just learn to love unconditionally, without expectations, even if he rejects it. I am trying to start on this concept, I also don't know how it could be done on a humanly basis!
Hi Angel, thanks for posting your insights. Yes, I started from the unconditional love concept, and it worked for a long time. Still does, to a certain extent. I did miss the lovemaking aspect, but on the other hand, it wasn't very romantic when we did do it. So, I slowly began to accept this part of our M. I was surprised when he initiated it this last time.
So, here we are ... at an impasse. I have withdrawn my S idea, if only in my mind, and am leaving it all up to him. I have no idea what is going to happen when he comes back from his trip.
You know, I was silly to think he might fight for our M or for me ... that was sort of my idea behind requesting the S in the first place. Never test. You never know what you might get. Ugh! I am also sorry I told the kids ... but they are old enough now to understand if it turns around. At least, I hope so.
I suspect OW. Someone who goes on trips with him. She is in the same industry. I asked him about her, and he was very quick to protect her honour. If it's not physical and she's not interested, it sure sounds like he is on an emotional level. They have swapped stories, which he doesn't do with his male co-workers. He also didn't want to show me photos from his last trip, but friends wanted to see them, so he had no choice. And there he was, next to her. He says nothing is going on, but he has lied so much before that I doubt I can trust him.
Maybe it is time to move on. I am so tired of it all.
One positive, he does keep in contact with me more while he's away.
angel, there are always variations to what is 'standard', and I'm glad for you that something different has worked for you. In my sitch many told me to stay away from any sex with H, but I feel it has to be what seems right in RL for the sitch. If you can handle the emotional aspect of sex with someone who doesn't want you then keep it going. That isn't the sitch with BM and her H, twice in a week after a long dry spell isn't coincidence.
BM, if there is something with ow how will that change what you do and what you want?
I honestly don't know, WCW. I don't think I have enough emotional strength to handle another OW. I've already managed to convince myself once that I don't love him. I think if there is someone else, then I will have to step back .... waaaay back, and leave. I just wish he would be honest and just say so, if there is one. But, after 5 years and no improvement, then I have to assume there is ... isn't it always the case? How many times have our H's told us we were imagining things, and it turned out that we were right? I just don't think he's ready to leave, quite yet. He lives a separate life, and I don't know what that life is like except what he tells me. And that is very little.
Still, I am feeling positive about life. I'm not going to let this get me down.
I wish I had those all knowing answers, but I don't.
For all the years I spent waiting for my H to defog I waited too long to get myself unstuck. I finally did, and made a life I enjoyed while still being roommates with H, and whatdoyaknow he started peaking at my/our life again.
You have been busy with health and school and kids and grandkids, is any of that something that draws H back? What are his interests?
Maybe the best you can do is keep taking care of you, protect yourself financially and emotionaly, and live happy.
His interests are all work related. He doesn't even take his motorbike out ... hasn't the whole year, spring or summer. He loves his grandkids, but doesn't really make the effort to get there to see them ... a little, but only when he is in that city for a project.
Maybe the best you can do is keep taking care of you, protect yourself financially and emotionally, and live happy.
That is my intent now. I have told him that the ball is in his court. I wrote this email (below) to him last week, after we M twice in the previous week after almost 2 years of nothing, except robotic pecks on the cheek hullo or goodbye, and a quick "love you" on the phone --- I stopped all of that. I want it to be real or nothing.
I just want to make it clear about how I feel: I miss you, I love you. But I don't know if that's enough anymore. I am confused about what you want, what your feelings are, where we are going. I do know that you are not willing to fight for me, for us. I know you're tired, which is why I proposed the separation. I don't want to be the source of your stress and
tiredness. I want to be the place you can rest, and have a sympathetic heart, and I hoped I could find that with you too.
I do wish we could fix this marriage. But, I think you want to move on. You haven't given me any reason to think otherwise. So, I won't fight for us anymore. Just really confused.
The proverbial ball is in your court.
((BM))
Although you were trying to clear things up for your H about how you feel I felt very confused about what you were trying to tell him. The recent ML with him has really gotten into your mind. Shake it off and go dark. Get yourself back.
Have you heard anything from Phoenix? I think he's gone dark!
Being Me, what do you want him to do? Spell it out, us guys aren't good at "you should know what I want so do it". Often it's hard enough when we know what to do! So saying "the ball is in your court" means he'll sit there thinking "WTH does that mean?" Anyway, you are certainly telling him you are unhappy, want something better but aren't saying what. Just my thoughts.
BM - you did send him a message, where you a letting him know that you love him and you care, but you are letting him go if that's what he needs. If it was meant to be just that, that would be OK. However I you are expecting that this will make him "wake up" you may be setting yourself up for disappointment and more hurt. Ask yourself honestly....what would you like him to reply to this? What are your expectations?
Please have NO EXPECTATIONS...I just don't want you to be disappointed....
I am letting go. I have no expectations at all. I doubt he will "wake up" Mila. I don't care what he does. I don't expect him to do anything. That has been his usual MO, and I can't see him changing. It's always me that has to change. Never him.
I will continue with the legal separation, and eventual divorce.
If he wants to make an effort, then he will have to really pound that ball over the net, and I will have to really notice in a way that I have no doubt about his intentions, because I will be turned away. It will have to hit my back.
I have decided the ML a couple of weeks ago was just s*x (he had been sleeping in the spare room until friends of ours came to visit), and it will have to stop. He will have to move into the spare room again. I will be leaving for Europe mid-Jan anyway, for 2 months, so he will have a lot of space and time to reflect, if that is what he wants. The trip to my D30 will be good for me, I think. After my return, we will be selling our house, and I will buy something smaller, while he will continue travelling for business, bouncing from country to country (as far as he has told me, but I suspect he will move to the mainland and find an apartment).
I have done all I can do, and more. He says he has tried, and I have told him I did not see it. So, he obviously didn't try hard enough or in a way that I would see.
I am done trying. I am dropping the rope ... again. ~ Sigh~ He will have to pick it up this time. Or not. His decision.
Thanks everyone for your input.
(In the meantime, he has been friendly, contacts me everyday. Nothing exciting. He has not responded to that email I sent. I will not read anything into it.)
Update:
I was busy inputing our details onto a Separation Agreement form online, when I had an epiphany ... why am I doing all the work? He ran this M off the road and I've been trying to put it back on without much help from him. When I finally decide to step away from the ditched R, and let him have at it, once again I am doing all the work. So, I told him, I've changed my mind. I don't want a S or D. If he wants it, he can do the work. In the meantime, I will just enjoy my life and he can do what he likes.
This was last weekend, and since then he seems more relaxed and even hugged me goodnight last night. So, we'll see.
Too funny, I think that is a big reason I am still M - I wouldn't do all the work to get unM for H! Maybe eventually I would have bu we got better before I went there.
Pressures off, relax and enjoy. Stop driving for resolution.
Merry Christmas!
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Y'ALL! HOPE THERE IS PEACE IN YOUR HOMES TOMORROW.
Merry Xmas to you too Being....lets count our blessings and enjoy time with our loved ones
Thanks everyone. I did have a fairly good Christmas. Counting the days to when I visit D30 in Germany mid-January. She's pregs with her third baby.
H leaves tomorrow for yet another long trip. I won't see him until March ... maybe. He seems happy today. Cheerful ... more so then at Christmas. So, I guess he is eager to leave home. Oh well!
Happy New Year to all and I wish that all your dreams come true, that angels will protect you, that emotional pain will become a thing of the past, and you will be healthy in spirit, body, mind and financially.
May the new year bring peace and prosperity to the planet.
Hi Being,
That's a long trip your H is taking....hope the space will be good for him and he will have time to reflect....and on a positive note for you....no more walking on eggshells for a while...
Hope that 2011 will be a great year for you
Hugs
Thanks Mila. He will be home at the end of Jan., but I will be in Germany for 2 months. He said he might come and visit there for a weekend to see the baby. I haven't stopped crying all morning. Don't know why in particular.
((BeingMe)) Hope you're feeling better today, sometimes those crying sessions can be cleansing and once it's over you get renewed strength. You've had so much strength to get to this point, take the time you need because you'll be busy with that new grandbaby soon!
I am feeling better thanks WCW. I am just going to get through the weekend, and then it's back to uni next week for me and D.
I think it was my dreams combined with H leaving on a business trip on New Year's day, that has kept me feeling emotional. I dreamed about a wedding again last night, as I did the day before NYE. It was the next morning after that dream that I cried all morning. At times I wasn't even sobbing, just leaking tears.
I leave soon for my trip to visit niece for a week in the USA, then to Europe to visit my D30 for 2 months, so won't see H for all that time. Such a long time to be separated ... usually it's 3 weeks and it sure hasn't improved our R, so I wonder how it will feel after 2 months. "Absence makes the heart go fonder" or "out of sight, out mind?" The second one has been my experience, so far.
My friend gave me a book to read, called For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. Very interesting, and I see so much of this in my H. Would be nice if men would read For Men Only to get an idea on how women think. It's all based on research from interviews and surveys of random men (and even the men in her life). There are, of course, exceptions, but apparently, this is how men think. And, my H is definitely like those in the surveys. I have started adjusting my interactions with him in the last week and he seems happier, and says he is sleeping so well. WTH!!!! Maybe it's not me, but what a coincidence if not.
Being,
You and I could throw old sayings at each other all day, but in the end "It is what it is" is the only one to put your money on.
Personally, I think most men are too narcissistic to care what women think. They don't count.
Don't put too much into how well he is sleeping. He just left what may be a stressful situation at home, but reality is sometimes a kick in the a$$. And no matter how far you run, you can't run from reality.
I hope you have a great visit with niece and D. Do your best to have a good time. Let him check in with you. Above all, TAKE CARE OF YOU.
By the way, I did as you suggested and wrote down my dream last night. Very interesting.
Personally, I think most men are too narcissistic to care what women think. They don't count.
Hey punkin,
Please don't say most men.
I have read those books "For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. and
For Men Only" as Being pointed out. I have read the for "Women
only about 3 times and early on and I knew alot of it before this
thing hit. But of course MLC is not about what the LBS did or
did not do. That I am sure of now. It took almost a year for me
to recognize this. Those books are good when a marriage is in
trouble and BOTH the H and W want to work on a better marriage.
I highly recommend them for that type of situation. In my case
my W felt those books to be pressure. I do think that those
two books should be standard equipment for EVERY marriage.
It would not have stopped MLC but it could keep a healthy
marriage even better.
I know you know this but since I have read those books, I felt
a need to express myself a little since others read these posts.
Maybe I am venting a little here too because the situation gets
so frustrating and I think if men find their way here to this
site and others, that says more about them then just giving up
when it gets tough.
The good part about being an LBS, is you do get an opportunity
to look at yourself and try to see what could have been improved.
Nobody is perfect and I have my faults to be sure but MLC really
is all bets are off when it comes to the LBS.
Again, Punkin,
Please don't take this the wrong way I just keep thinking of all
the men here that get left behind in this thing and wonder WTH
happened.
Those first days of just plain trauma are just awful for any
of us that go through this. I lurked here for months and months
and when I finally started to participate here is when things
started to turn for my OWN sanity.
Being - I like this quote...I think that it applies to our spouses same as it applies to us
"No matter where you go, there you are"
...just a reminder that we can't run away from it all and either can our WS
The time alone for both of you will be time for reflection and hopefully working through the issues individually
Hope you have a wonderful time with your D and the new baby....enjoy
I agree in parts with all of you.
And no matter how far you run, you can't run from reality.
So true, Punkin. I will check to see what your dream was about on your thread. Mine was about meeting new people from my mother country in the store, flubbing the language, going home with them, and then over staying my welcome. Then when leaving I saw two people (also from my mother country) I met for the first time on NYE, coming from a walk, and talking to them about living in the same street. They kinda snubbed me. I kept getting into our old car and leaving, but I couldn't seem to leave this street. There was a bunch of stuff in the car from the store ... huge pillows and eiderdowns, and groceries, filling the car to the roof.
Weird.
The good part about being an LBS, is you do get an opportunity to look at yourself and try to see what could have been improved.
I agree, WS. I have become a better person for all this, I hope. Sometimes, I think I slip back, but there's no-one to tell me if I have, except on this bb. I remember at first, I also lingered here, not saying anything.
Those books are good when a marriage is in trouble and BOTH the H and W want to work on a better marriage.I highly recommend them for that type of situation.
... I have not passed it on to my H, and have no intention of doing so. I read it for my own understanding, and I see some things that I have done wrong in the past. Such as, respecting his decisions no matter what. Obviously, there are some situations where one can't go blindly into a man's decision, but one has to at least respect him enough to consider it, and back him up in public if not in private.
"No matter where you go, there you are"
...just a reminder that we can't run away from it all and either can our WS
Much what Punkin said, but I like that quote too. I hope there will be a time for reflection, and so on. H works all the time. I doubt he will be reflecting on anything except that. I just hope he misses me a little bit.
I hate travelling, especially by air, but once I'm at D30, I'll become ensconced and settle down. I will be visiting other people around Europe, but will be going by train ... I love trains ... I was a Railway kid, so that will be enjoyable for me. And, once baby arrives ... not sure I will want to go anywhere else.
It's my last weekend at home for 2 months. H is in China now for 2 weeks, so D18 will be alone with the dogs. She is usually a responsibe young lady, but she has never been left alone before. S23 is moving out this week, so he won't be at home with her. I have asked him to check up and make sure she's okay, and the dogs are still alive. I am sure she'll be fine, but we mothers always worry, not so?! Especially about our youngest.
It's hard to get things settled to be gone, especially for so long! Are you excited about a new grandbaby? Will you be checking in from Germany?
I am excited about the new baby, WCW. I love newborns. Such a thrilling event.
Yes, I will be taking my laptop with so I can do my online class. So, I will be able to check in with y'all.
So, I'm here in Germany. My D30 has still not given birth to her baby ... almost, but then the contractions went away and she came home from the hospital. So, we wait. H is arriving at home today, so D18 will be happy (unless the house is a mess ... ha).
Oh, I am praying for your D now! I know how hard that is to think the baby will be here anytime, but then the baby decides it isn't ready! God Bless!
Sending Prayers for D30. Good luck. I'm sure you'll make a great Grandma.
Journalling ...
Well, my second grandson is about to be born. I was timing my D30's contractions and it went from 5 min to 2 to 4 mins and increasing in strength over a 2 hour period. So, they called the hospital and were told to come in. SIL called about an hour ago saying they will be staying because she is 4cm dilated. Yay!
I will have to get the grand-daughters up for school tomorrow. Hope I wake up in time.
Being - hope everything is going well for your D, let us know if it's a boy or a girl
It's a boy ... a hefty 9lbs 2oz one at that. D30 ended up having a very short labour ... went in at 11ish, and had baby at 4.27am. Mother and baby doing well, and daddy came home and is currently sleeping after his long harrowing night ... ha! He did show us pictures of the baby ... he's so cute with full head of dark hair.
... and I am in charge of the grand-daughters ..... muhwahahah!!!! Actually, it's not problem ... they're out playing with their friends, so it's pretty quiet. Nice, sunny day in this neck of the woods in Germany. At last.
CONGRATULATIONS BeingMe!!!!!
(((HUGS)))
New Baby?
Awesome, and what better way to celebrate a new begining than with a new thread!
Trying to be funny there, BeingMe could you please start a new thread?
Up to me, I wouldn't care...but its not up to me, I just get to ask.
Danka.