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Posted By: JeanBean Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/11/10 01:22 PM
Hello Everyone, I am new here but have been trying to "save" my marriage with my husband. I believe he is going through a MLC and I know an old "friend" from when he was young (who is unhappily married) and has 3 kids has been pursuing him.

He is really angry at me and has said all the usual stuff about how he never loved me, etc. We had split 4 years ago (my doing) and got back together. We had a terrible 3 years with jobs, new baby, lost house, health problems on both ends, and I lied to him about some serious things he found out about and now doesn't trust me. In the same token he has cheated on me and was abusive before our split.

We have 3 children together and I have been doing alot of reading and realize that he has needs that I am not meeting and have worked on changing the things about myself that I don't like.

My self-esteem is horrible and he has told me he is not attracted to me, he doesn't trust me, he doesn't believe I will ever change, I don't challenge him, my communication is terrible, I'm not assertive, and he stayed with me all these years because of the kids and his own insecurities.

This morning he said "is that all we ever have to talk about is work?" I said "no, we can talk about the kids, bills, the household, or anything else." He said, "yeah, you would say that." I told him we can talk about anything - sex, the relationship, whatever but he is not receptive to it and he said that it is my fault and I need to figure out how to change that.

Sometimes he talks like he really wants to go and other times he seems like he doesn't. He won't have sex with me and hasn't for the past 2 years and although I am 103 lbs. and not bad looking and do take care of my appearance he thinks I have "let myself go".

He started to open up more about his childhood about a week ago (he has before in the past) and than told me he did not want to talk to me about it because I have never made him feel comforted about it. I am a calm, peace-maker type person who is prone to depression and self-blame alot.

He told me that the woman he talks to he can actually have a conversation with because there is a give and take in the conversation unlike in ours. He tells me that I never listen to him and that he has told me time and again what he needs and I do everything but that. (Note: I was diagnosed with ADHD a year ago and take medicine for it and have been working on my issues with it).

He told me that he doesn't believe that I really love him even though I tell him he is wrong. He said he has no respect for me and that I am a liar and don't even know my own feelings.

He has said before that I don't step up to the plate when he needs me to. He thinks my pace is too slow and I am "too blonde" as he puts it and live in denial. He told me I squashed his feelings and he was squasing mine.

He said that he does see some changes but it is too late and they just make him angry because I should have done them 10 years ago and he has no patience for me.

The thing is I really do love this man and I want to turn things around for us as much as I can. I am making changes because I have to - I need to love myself again but I also want to reconcile my relationship with my husband - not the "old" one but a new healthy one for both of us. I really want to meet his needs.

I am lost though and not sure what to do or say to make things go in the right direction. I try to just listen and than he gets angry and says I keep ignoring him. He is like a yo-yo and I feel like I am on a rollercoaster ride. Please help! :o)
Posted By: Cadet Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/11/10 01:24 PM
Welcome to this board.
I posted at the same time as you on newcomers and I am glad you started a thread here.

You may get conflicting advice by posting on multiple forums.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my new and improved list of links.

I would start with the detach link.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go 1,2,3,4,5,6
but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 01:33 PM
Thanks very much for responding to me and the advice! I really appreciate it. I am not ready to give up on "us" but I do think we are "unhealthy" for each other right now.

I know this other woman wants to step right in and contacts him all of the time. This past weekend was rough and confusing too - he told me that I was like a 5th cousin to him.

Our 3 kids were away on Saturday to different friends houses. I mainly took our 3 year old down the street to play with a friend so he was not lonely looking for his sister. Than I went home and took a long bath and was doing my nails.

He was downstairs watching tv and came upstairs and picked a fight with me. He started criticizing my parenting since he couldn't believe that I was just sitting home while someone else down the street was watching our son.

I told him that I was relaxing and taking time for myself because I never get to do that since I work full-time too and take care of the kids. He criticized me about being a homebody and how I will never change and brought up that I left our 1st child in the car 13 years ago one time and when we were split up for 1 year about 4 years ago that my house was not the cleanist and how if it wasn't for him telling me to do things I wouldn't do them.

He said he worried about the care of his children if he was not around. I told him that I have plenty of faults but that I am a damn good mother and he has no right to judge me on that, of course there is always room for improvement but I do a good job for the most part!

I told him there was nothing wrong with me taking a break and that I don't know any other mom's that don't and he said he did not care about them he cared about our household and I should be watching our children and should have no problem juggling it.

I said every woman takes a break sometimes and I need it, I am not superwoman - he said "says who" and I said, "says my doctor!"

He told me that he couldn't believe that he was with me - he expected a sexy, lively woman with a personality and not me. Than he asked me why it took me so long to make appointments for the kids for health/dental and I told him I had to deal with my issues first.

He told me that the kids always come first regardless of my emotions and I told him that dealing with mental and emotional issues I had to help that before I could deal with anything else (I had post partum depression and was suicidial which I have really struggled with). He said that is why he should have never been with me - because I have mental issues.

He said yeah and I blame him for all of that. I told him that I don't blame him and he said "yeah right, that is not what you said the other day". I told him that he knows sometimes in anger I may say something to be hurtful that I don't mean and he told me I was like a child and that I should just tell the truth in anger and than he told me I did not understand him that I thought I did but that I did not.

I told him that I do and he got really mad like he was going to hit me so I said nothing. I asked him what he wanted - he said that he wants to move somewhere else with his kids, that is what he wants. Than I said what should I do just slit my wrists and go away?! Than he went downstairs.

He called me down there about 15 minutes later and told me - didn't I tell you it was going to get like this and didn't I tell you 2 years ago that I did not want to be here and I did not want to be with you. I said yes.

I told him that I know that I can meet his needs and he told me that he knows that I think I can but that I can't, he is not attracted to me, and I have had ample time to change.

He said that all he feels is anger in my presence, he said my breathing irritates him. He told me he never wanted to live the way we do and that he felt good and no anxiety when we were split up for a year - that it is me that is causing this for him.

I told him that I never stopped him from what he has wanted to do and he got mad and said that his next paycheck was not going into our account.

The following day he took me to breakfast with our kids for Mother's Day and actually told the kids to go play and we shot a game of pool with another couple - he never ever does that.

When we got home I took the kids to my mom's house. Later in the evening when we got home he asked me to come downstairs so I sat next to him on the couch. I normally rub his back or feet but he has pulled away lately - within the past week.

He barely said 2 words to me and I started to rub his feet and he pulled away so I sat there a few minutes and went upstairs to tend to the children.

Later at night he came up to bed so I rubbed his back and he did not push me away but there is not nor has been any return affection or touch from him in quite some time.

I saw him looking at me this am when I was getting dressed though. I don't know what it all means if anything aside from my suspecting he is struggling alot with his feelings and what he wants to do.

A big problem has been he gets anxiety going across bridges so he can't drive over them and we live right next to a bridge. Do you think I should tell him that I will find a place right across the bridge for the kids and I and just take them back and forth across the bridge so they don't have to change school.

That way when he wants to visit I won't have to take him back and forth across the bridge? I know he feels like a baby having to have someone else drive him across.

I don't want to be too nice (which I tend to be anyway) but putting myself in his shoes I would feel really awful and like a baby myself if I had to get someone to do it for me just to go see my kids.

How much should I assist or cooperate with him? I read a good book about Irritable Male Syndrome and a lady in there had a husband who told her he wasn't happy and did not know what he wanted so she helped her husband move to another country and during that time she got her degree and "a life" and eventually the calls they had he asked her more about her and wound up coming back to her years later and they had a good realtionship after that.

I guess I kind of think of the saying if you let them go and they come back they were yours and if you don't they were not. I wonder if it is best to agree for him to be free and just focus on myself without getting angry with him.

I told him that I did not want this - I don't want him to be angry and upset with me and all of the fighting and he told me that I put us here.

I can think back to when I split up our home 4 years ago because he was violent I spent that year trying to avoid him and I told him I did not want to talk to him because I was too angry and did not want to take it out on him even though he told me I could and he wanted me to. I told him it would make things worse and that it would not make me feel better to get angry at and hurt him even if he was o.k. with it.

I honestly think the time apart would do us both good but I don't think a broken home is good for the children but neither is this fighting.

I know my oldest was talking to him the other day about how her best friend's dad left them to go to another state to be with his old girl friend from childhood. He wound up coming back a few months later. My daughter told her dad that she had no respect for this man at all for doing that to his wife and children.

She said my husband defended the man and said "you can't make someone love you if they don't" and my daughter told him it wasn't right. He did not say anything back.

I guess I just don't understand why he can't just give it a shot, I mean a real shot at us connecting and working together to have a relationship we both want and are happy with.

He said everything is on my time, that I only do things when I am good and ready and always have. He doesn't believe I will ever change and the patterns will always be the same and he is angry that I want to do something different now and not before.

It is all very confusing to me. I told him I was really torn that part of me really wants him to be happy and the other part wants to hold on to him - the selfish part, the part that really loves him and doesn't want him to go but I can't bear to see him so miserable. Sometimes I wounder if I am too understanding and need to tell him he is a jerk and needs to be a man and go get a hobby or a new car but not break up his house! Thanks for the listening and the support is really appreciated and needed! :o)
Posted By: Cadet Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 01:41 PM
These posts are quite an improvement!!!!

I think I can read these.
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/11/10 01:58 PM
Thank you so much, I will take a look at it! :o)

Looking at my posts and the soul-searching I have done myself I can see some of the things he has complained about. Ugghhh...I am "all over the place" with the way I think and the way I write.

I understand at least now that it is "normal" for someone with ADHD and I have to learn how to control it besides taking meds (which do seem to help). When I get upset and stressed my ADHD symptoms get alot worse and I have to work at it to stop, pay attention, focus, and remember.

I believe this may be a huge part of our communication issues - he thinks I am not listening and don't care and just "do what I want to do."

I am realizing through this whole thing that I have issues of my own that need addressing and helped contribute to where "we" are. I am owning my part and trying to change it and it really is alot of work. I feel like I am going uphill most of the time but I am determined not to stop or give up.

I think since technially both my husband and I are struggling with depression and health problems and I have ADHD that I am learning how to deal with we are both going through alot of personal growth and struggles.

I also think that since I have not been so innocent either and had my own form of "midlife" issues and ran away I do understand where he is coming from to a point and the confusion and mixed feelings in him and I really do have empathy. It is not an easy place to be and I am not the easiest person to live with.

I appreciate the support and hope that it will keep me "grounded" and that I actually do learn and not make the same mistakes over and over. :o)
Posted By: Cadet Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 02:03 PM
Now I actually read your posts and I will say that you MUST learn detachment.
You are pursuing him with way to much.
Your expectations are way too high.
You need to become more mysterious, dress to kill and unavailable to him.
You need to GAL.

Start reading the links that I have given you,
there are many things in your posts that are good,
but there are also many things that you need to work on.

You are in the right place.

You have to start to work on YOU!

Your H is in a journey and this time is for you to work on the things that you see in the mirror.

Remember that knowledge is power.
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 02:37 PM
Thank you so much for your opinon. What is GAL? :o)
Posted By: Cadet Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 02:46 PM
GAL = Get a Life
Go out, see a movie, go to a museum, do something for YOU. Others can give you better activities.
Just make sure it is LEGAL.

We do tend to sling a lot of abbreviations and slang around. At the top of the newcomers board is a list of abbreviations that I am always looking at because I can't rememberwhat everyone means.
Posted By: mermaid Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/11/10 05:05 PM

Arm yourself with information and come here as often as you need to so you understand his mlc is not about you. Your h has a long journey ahead of him. You are not invited on this journey. It will take years. So what are YOU doing in the meantime.
Posted By: covenantkeeper Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/11/10 08:28 PM
JeanBean,

Reading your post I felt like I was reading about someone talking about my husband. Especially the part about the 10 years. My h told me if I had only changed 10 years ago when he had hope, then our marriage could have worked. LOL!

I also have ADD. Actually my entire family has ADHD.....we just all have different varieties. So, it's a real challenge for a couple to both have ADHD and the h is in MLC! My advice to you is to read all you can about MLC. Get one step ahead of him so when he starts spouting this stuff, you won't be shocked. You'll be prepared for it.

The thing that is the hardest for us with ADHD is keeping our mouth shut! But, you have to try your best to not react to your husband. He is baiting you. He's trying to get you upset so that you will react like the crazy person we can become by overreacting. So, next time he starts that, take a deep breath and think before you say anything at all. That gives you time to be in control of yourself.

And, I'm not kidding about my husband saying just about verbatim everything your h told you. I swear they have the same script to follow. Just remember when he is throwing those fiery darts at you, it's because he feels so horrible about himself that he wants to spread the blame and misery to you! The more he hates about himself, the more garbage he will throw your way.

You're in the right place. Hey, we're all in this together! smile
Posted By: Marked&Healed Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 01:01 PM
Whew!!!
I am going to say some things and I hope you take them with the love they were meant with. I’m saying them to help you and you need some real help right now. Don’t worry, we’ve all been there, so do not feel like you’re different… dealing with marital problems is hard enough without dealing with ADHD, etc.

You are pursuing, you are allowing him to bait you, and you’re saying some pretty hurtful things in return. Would you treat your children that way? No way, right? Treat your H like he is a child, because right now, he is.

First things first, many people I believe forget this because this is the MLC forum and the book doesn’t say much specifically about MLC, BUT please get Divorce Remedy and read it – TWICE. It’s a HUGE key to your success. The techniques in there and much of what you will have to do you will just “get it” after reading and absorbing that book.

Forget about the OW for now, if she is or is not pursuing your H, if you focus on her instead of yourself, you’ll just make her look better and push him towards her. I know it’s hard, but it’s true.

Quote:
My self-esteem is horrible and he has told me he is not attracted to me, he doesn't trust me, he doesn't believe I will ever change, I don't challenge him, my communication is terrible, I'm not assertive, and he stayed with me all these years because of the kids and his own insecurities.
THIS is a huge item for you. What would you be doing to improve your self esteem? What is it that makes you YOU? Can you draw, read, fix things, cook, weld, be a great mom, whatever it is, make a list and post it here… We want to see your “I’m going to do these things to make myself happy” list. Goals are important, very important.

DO NOT tell your H that you are changing or going to change, just do it. He won’t trust you and will just think you’re trying to manipulate him if you tell him. You know the saying “actions speak louder than words?” Well, that totally applies here.

Quote:
This morning he said "is that all we ever have to talk about is work?"
This sounds like he feels a need to have communication with you, to feel heard. He’s not feeling heard, and I can see why, you need to work on your validation. My H also said that OW listens to him, which was a shock to me since he is not a talkative person, but I thought back and when we were first together, we talked about everything. Things changed when my step kids moved into our house.. so your H is the same, he needs talk. Start by listening to him when he does talk to you, even if what he is saying is hurtful.

Quote:
He won't have sex with me and hasn't for the past 2 years and although I am 103 lbs. and not bad looking and do take care of my appearance he thinks I have "let myself go".
He may be using this to make you feel bad about yourself, or he may not feel close enough to you to share. I know they say men need sex to feel close to their women, but my H is sometimes the opposite, he needs to feel close and then has sex.

Quote:
He started to open up more about his childhood about a week ago (he has before in the past) and than told me he did not want to talk to me about it because I have never made him feel comforted about it. I am a calm, peace-maker type person who is prone to depression and self-blame alot.
This is good, both that he started opening up to you and that he told you he doesn’t feel you comfort him. Now you know what he needs and can address him… learn to validate, and make him feel comforted.

Quote:
He tells me that I never listen to him and that he has told me time and again what he needs and I do everything but that.
Again, he’s telling you what he needs, start meeting those needs. I don’t understand because I don’t have it, how does ADHD stop you from listening to him or validating him?

Quote:
He told me that he doesn't believe that I really love him even though I tell him he is wrong. He said he has no respect for me and that I am a liar and don't even know my own feelings.
He is not going to believe your words, so don’t use them, use actions, SHOW him how you can change. Just do it. Validate him to his face and then change yourself behind his back. “I understand that you don’t feel I can love you and I’m sorry you feel that way, for the record, I do love you.”

Quote:
He has said before that I don't step up to the plate when he needs me to. He thinks my pace is too slow and I am "too blonde" as he puts it and live in denial.
Again, more issues he sees you as having. If you feel these are real issues, deal with them, change yourself so that you are a happy person and not living in denial or fear.

Quote:
He said that he does see some changes but it is too late and they just make him angry because I should have done them 10 years ago and he has no patience for me.
This is script, ignore it or validate him. Such as “I understand you don’t believe I can make these changes, I am doing this for me. You will see when I don’t change back, I’m trying to make myself a better person so I can be happy in my own life.”
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/12/10 05:38 PM
Thanks, yeah...I agree! I remember when I had one of those (a life) and what it felt like to love myself so I know it's possible - just gotta "get it again".

My oldest daughter (almost 15 yrs old) told me it is like I lost my "spirit" and she misses it. I lost it right around when my son was born and got post-partum depression. What a really ugly illness, it sucks the life outta you.

Gotta alot of work to do on me. I told my husband this am when he had a panic attack that I get panic too but I just don't talk about it and deal with it myself. I use my tools to help myself with it - I get the tight chest and can't breath too. He got quiet and a little surprised I think.
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 06:14 PM
Wow, thanks so much for all of that - and yes it is all taken with love! I think when you are a really busy person running around in circles alot and being responsible you forget how to have fun and than beside kids - you have your husband who treats you like the enemy and you don't feel much like being cheerful and more like crying. It is really hard.

I guess too since he stopped helping with everything - I do the driving for everyone, everything & anything to do with the kids, all of the grocery shopping & cooking, housework, laundry, balance the checkbook, anything related to bills, and work full-time for the government, and I really think my 3 year old has ADHD too because he is pretty busy and "difficult" so most of the time I am really exhausted.

I am stressed alot and have to make myself calm down. Basically when my ADHD is in swing I can't retain information and I am listening but can't "absorb" it, my brain is all over the place and I have to rein it in and really focus and even if i do get it to focus - I don't remember alot of what is said in the conversation - I don't know the details and my husband is a very detail oriented person and remembers everything so I seem like an air head.

Needless to say I really stink with arguements because I can't remember what was said and it seems like I don't care when I really do. :o(
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - MORE - 05/12/10 06:27 PM
Thank you, that is very helpful because I do tend to take it personally. :o)
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 06:31 PM
What a relief to see there are others like me and I am not just crazy! It is good to have support and not feel like an alien. :o))
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 08:30 PM
[
Quote:
My self-esteem is horrible and he has told me he is not attracted to me, he doesn't trust me, he doesn't believe I will ever change, I don't challenge him, my communication is terrible, I'm not assertive, and he stayed with me all these years because of the kids and his own insecurities.
THIS is a huge item for you. What would you be doing to improve your self esteem? What is it that makes you YOU? Can you draw, read, fix things, cook, weld, be a great mom, whatever it is, make a list and post it here… We want to see your “I’m going to do these things to make myself happy” list. Goals are important, very important.

Quote:
This morning he said "is that all we ever have to talk about is work?"
This sounds like he feels a need to have communication with you, to feel heard. He’s not feeling heard, and I can see why, you need to work on your validation. My H also said that OW listens to him, which was a shock to me since he is not a talkative person, but I thought back and when we were first together, we talked about everything. Things changed when my step kids moved into our house.. so your H is the same, he needs talk. Start by listening to him when he does talk to you, even if what he is saying is hurtful.

Quote:
He started to open up more about his childhood about a week ago (he has before in the past) and than told me he did not want to talk to me about it because I have never made him feel comforted about it. I am a calm, peace-maker type person who is prone to depression and self-blame alot.
This is good, both that he started opening up to you and that he told you he doesn’t feel you comfort him. Now you know what he needs and can address him… learn to validate, and make him feel comforted.

Quote:
He has said before that I don't step up to the plate when he needs me to. He thinks my pace is too slow and I am "too blonde" as he puts it and live in denial.
Again, more issues he sees you as having. If you feel these are real issues, deal with them, change yourself so that you are a happy person and not living in denial or fear.

I guess from reading this I don't know how to validate him - what does he need? I listen and I ask questions sometimes and I remember in the past saying that it wasn't right some of the bad things. I think sometimes I look like I feel sorry for him and he has said before it is like I am listening to a story which I told him really hurt my feelings because I did not view it that was and did not realize I seemed that way about it. What words or body language could I use to validate him? My family was pretty quiet and not really big on words so I am at a loss I guess. I can give a hug in a heart beat but am not sure what to say...I listen, I am calm but I am not sure what to say back that makes him feel heard and understood and that I really do care. Any advice? Thanks! :o)

Also my things to make me happy list includes: EXERCISE (even if it is just going for a walk on most days), I love to EXERCISE but can't seem to fit it in anywhere. I dragged out my old art portfolio and showed it to my 7 year old. I miss drawing. I miss listening to music and going to concerts. I miss praying, writing, and dancing. All things that have falling through the cracks while being "responsible". I can see where i am pretty "unfun". This is really helping me with ideas, I know I certainly can't get my life back without finding "me" again... :o))
Posted By: Marked&Healed Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 09:36 PM
Quote:
Also my things to make me happy list includes: EXERCISE (even if it is just going for a walk on most days), I love to EXERCISE but can't seem to fit it in anywhere. I dragged out my old art portfolio and showed it to my 7 year old. I miss drawing. I miss listening to music and going to concerts. I miss praying, writing, and dancing. All things that have falling through the cracks while being "responsible". I can see where i am pretty "unfun". This is really helping me with ideas, I know I certainly can't get my life back without finding "me" again... :o))

Oh, goody gumdrops, we can be bestest GALing buddies then... those are pretty much my GAL activities.

Hows about we keep each other on task to make sure we make it of the utmost import each day to do these very important tasks? (Sorry, I'm pretty playful today and my only outlet is here at the moment as I'm stuck at work...)

Hi, my name is M&H and I'm here to:
Draw close to the Lord, exercise (hike, weights, biking), draw, play music, write music, take singing lessons (so the kids won't howl any more if I sing in the car), learn karate, and write poetry/short stories.

I pledge to do one of those things each day for a minimum of 20 minutes.

Now your turn. smile LOL

PS are you on the alt?
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 09:43 PM
One of the best movie quotes ever.

Quote:

Who has time? Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have time?


Make the time.

Invest in yourself.

Get up 30 minutes early. Stop watching TV.

But you can make the time somewhere.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 09:45 PM
PS -

SELF esteem


comes from you.

Not some [censored] up guy...

NEVER that.

YOU.

SELF.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/12/10 10:22 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SPOT ON J3B, SPOT ON!^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 02:01 PM
I know that you are right, I know that self-esteem is from yourself and I have always believed you can't give what you don't have yourself (self-love) and I use to love myself no matter what even if I stood alone so I know how unhealthy I am and how it is destroying me physically as well. I am kinda trying to heal everything at this point and am really greatful to have found this site! I know this is going to help me alot! :o)

I think my husband's rejection at the same time as all of my own struggles - depression & being diagnosed with ADHD & chronic health issues made me feel terrible about myself and reinforced my feelings of not being good enough and made me feel very alone and worthless.

I used to be a huge optimist - just naturally, always curious and loved to be alive. I always viewed life as a gift. I remember what that feels like and life without depression, anxiety, and fears and I am determined to get "her" back (accept alot wiser and stronger).

Part of what I have been doing is learning all I can about ADHD and what helps and what hurts with it because it sure isn't going anywhere! It has pros to it also and not just cons and I need to play up the pros and recognize and do what I can to help with the cons and accept them without feeling bad about them.

I guess what I am figuring out is regardless of my husband I need to be able to look in the mirror again and smile and mean it and love being alive again and if he can love her too I will be thrilled and if he doesn't there is nothing I can do about that. Thanks for all of your words of wisdom and advice. Truth is always welcome! :o)

AND please feel free to poke me when necessary if I start veering off course - I need to be held accountable and recognize that I need help with that! Thanks again! :o))
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 02:14 PM
That sounds great! Playful and silly can help tremendously so that's fine with me! I miss belly laughs too! I love, love, love to laugh and know how theraputic humor can be!

I have an identical twin sister that moved to another state a few months ago and we used to have belly laughs regularly just looking at each other and talk about anything and everying.

She had a nervous break down a couple years ago and has had Chron's Disease since we were kids and is not the same and kinda "out there" alot so I have mourned the loss of that bond too. We still talk but it is not the same closeness and probably will never be although I don't loose hope that in time it will be better.

I feel like the rug got pulled out from under me in life in general and every area was hit hard and knocked me over. Everything that has really mattered to me has been impacted. It has been very hard to get back up. I know I can't wallow in self-pity but it does hurt like hell!

I can ask you everyday what you did to keep you on task and you can do the same for me! I could really use that little kick in the butt and reminder to keep me grounded! Thanks so much! I will have to let you know tomorrow what I did since I haven't done anything yet today. :o)
Posted By: Cadet Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 02:21 PM
How is my homework assignment going? Do you have any questions?
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 02:58 PM
Thanks for asking! :o) I have read the detachment and was blown away - my husband and I are a pittiful mess and I see both of us in so much of it so I am stepping back.

I believe that the split we had 4 years ago started us on the right path to healing and we got back together too soon because of our son and now it is an even bigger mess.

I believe I stand in the way of him healing because of trying to "help him" and I see where we both have "stunted" each others growth and become resentful and blaming of each other instead of getting what we should be out of our relationship. We are hurting each other even though neither of us means to.

I have put my focus on me and paying attention only to the areas in me that he has complained about that are valid and I do not like in myself. I have also put the focus on my healing because I have neglected it and feeling my feelings and accepting them and letting them go.

It is kind of a strange way of looking at it but I view it as a giant black sickness that I am giving to God to take from me so that I can be strong enough to handle the black sickness in my husband if that is meant to be without causing further harm and destruction.

I have had a lot of really difficult and painful experiences since childhood in my life and I feel like they happened to prepare me for this and I need the strength and endurance that only an "unsick" inside can give, mind, body, and spirit - whole and healthy.

As it stands it's been like the blind leading the blind and we just bump into walls. That doesn't work. I can't make my husband well but I can make me well (God willing) and that is what I am doing.

Thanks again for checking in on me I will definately read the rest of them as well. The detachment one really hit home for me though. :o)
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 04:42 PM
One other item...my husband told me yesterday that he is an angry person, he has been angry his whole life but I seem to bring it out in him. I just listened and did not say anything back.

I forgot something (my credit score) that he thought was important but I have a very difficult time remembering numbers and wrote it down but didn't have the paper with me. He told me that I should remember it because it's important and that I will never change. He said that I do the same thing with that that I do with everything else and treat it half-assed and don't follow through. Later at night we were looking at houses online and watching the tornadoes in the south (my sister lives there). It was calm and we talked normally to each other.

He bought me a cup of coffee yesterday morning and he has also been doing a little bit more around the house to help out.

He made a comment about how nothing is ever good enough for me a few days ago and that he knows I am stressed and feel like he has dropped everything in my lap. I told him that I really am thankful for all the help he has been giving me and it has been a tremendous help that I really appreciate and left it at that.

Another thing I thought about was a conversation we had a little while back and I told him I wanted to do whatever would make this work. He said that he needs to go get his own place then and than maybe, we will see. He said that he knew how I felt about him but that he needs a change.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 07:12 PM
Sorry you started talking about loving yourself and I didn't get much further than the pictures in my head.

I hope you are having a great day. smile

and THANKS!
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 07:28 PM
LOL!!! Thanks! I hope you have a great day as well! :o))
Posted By: lalxx Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 09:13 PM
J3B - you are one very naughty boy
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/13/10 09:33 PM
I'm just drawn that way.
Posted By: beingreal Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/14/10 12:06 AM
Quote:
I believe that the split we had 4 years ago started us on the right path to healing and we got back together too soon because of our son and now it is an even bigger mess.

I believe I stand in the way of him healing because of trying to "help him" and I see where we both have "stunted" each others growth and become resentful and blaming of each other instead of getting what we should be out of our relationship. We are hurting each other even though neither of us means to.


YES!! I TOTALLY get this! And it sucks. It's going to be hard, but I can see how trying to fix it & push it & doing it to soon can make it worse.

So does this mean that your H wants his own place? Or does he mean figuratively? What ways have you been giving him space?
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/14/10 03:31 PM
He has been so back and forth on everything that I do believe he wants his own place but is not sure whether he wants to be done or not and is worried about the finanical impact on our 3 children and how they will live.

When we split up before he told me he respected me now he has no respect for me at all. I had become an escape goat for him and think the same pattern happened again accept alot worse because now it is MLC too. Uggghhhh!

We even talked about him getting his own place and staying at our house 3-4 days a week and not tell the children. We would say that he needed to do it for work. He said he needed to focus on himself and getting well and what terrible shape he was in and he couldn't do it living in our household. I agreed to this and told him that if that is what he needed o.k., I was not happy that he was so miserable in our house but he needs to be healthy and if he needs that, we should do it. Than he never did anything about it and got mad at me because I did not make it happen.

It is like he keeps waiting for me to do something about what he wants to do or change all the things he doesn't like about me all at once and just gets frustrated because I don't meet the "standard" and don't do anything. Kinda like these little "tests" to see if I pass and when I don't an "I told you so".

I feel like sometimes he does things so that I will kick him out so he doesn't have to be the "bad guy" but I told him that I will not kick him out and I will not leave. He has told me that he is going to make my life as miserable as possible so I can see how much we should not be together.

I asked him before why he just doesn't leave if I make his life so miserable and he said that I needed to suffer. I asked him why he thought things have been so easy for me, I have had the losses right along with him and I am hurting and trying to heal too but I don't blame him, what good does blame do to help anything?

He got mad and yelled at me last night because our 3 year old son kept coming in the room while he was helping our daughter with her homework and I "didn't control him". He didn't care what I had - "my ADD or whatever the Hell makes me not pay attention!"

He told me that I don't care about anything, that I treat that just like I do anything else - I don't care about it. I did not really respond and avoided him the rest of the evening. I finally went to him and told him that I AM fixing the messes that I have made and he said the damage was done and he is really tired and stressed and he can't take the stress anymore.

He told me a few days ago he is going to help me get a new car because mine is old and falling apart and than he is done.

Than he made a comment to the babysitter this am that he likes his women lively and was flirting with her.

He is an aggressive person usually but does use passive agressive too to get to me and sometimes I definately take the bait. He has said sometimes, "don't hate the player, hate the game". I asked him what that meant. Currently he is making rude remarks jokingly and I don't take the bait or say "yeah, I know and laugh".

I think he honestly has some legitimate reasons to be mad at me but he is acting like a giant child and taking no responsiblity for his part in anything or trying to turn anything around. He has always been a hot-head with a strong personality and very stubborn. He was raised to "fight" and that is how he approaches things.

I think he would feel very crummy leaving because he knows the kids will be hurt because they adore both of us and financially things would be difficult for both of us more so than they are now. He remembers his childhood and how horrible it was and does not want that for them and some days he says, "kids are resilient, they will adapt".

I don't come from a broken home and I really hate this and it is unnatural to me. I remember growing up and feel like the problems are created by "us" and the solutions can happen with "us" but he doesn't see it like I do and we have 2 different experiences. I see "us" against the outside and internal elements to fight against and he sees me and our relationship as what he needs to fight against.

I believe in forgiveness, compromise, and agreeing to disagree. I don't need to "win" and I don't have bad ethics or morals because I don't want to fight about everything and just pick my battles. I believe everyone makes mistakes and no matter how frustrating it may be to be patient if they don't get it, why shouldn't you if you love them? They aren't you and aren't supposed to be.

Aside from money and the kids I think part of the reason he has not left is because I am not bad to him, I am not mean to him (usually) and only defend myself if provoked, I try to treat him with love and respect no matter how he acts and even if I have to go and cry because it hurt my feelings. He has said before that he knows I would do anything for him but it is always the stuff he doesn't need, not what he really needs.

Therein lies my dilemma, I am supposed to "figure out" what that is which I am not good at so I have been looking at the way I was taught to be supportive and how it does not seem to be what HE NEEDS for support and what would show him that I can support and respect him and that I really do listen to him. I think I need to do the total opposite of everything I have been doing and see how that works out.

At the same time I am rebuilding my confidence and doing things for me that make me feel better about myself. Two things going on - keeping my eyes on my plate and my issues but also being there for my husband not for the BS stuff but when he is "real" for those moments when he is "himself" so he can talk to me and share with me if he wants to, tuning out the rubbish and responding to his hurt and pain when he wants to share it and trying very hard not to get sucked into the games. :o)
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/14/10 05:10 PM
Below is an email I got and it's pretty powerful for those of us with codependent relationships. It may have some answers for some of you and may help you in some areas that you may not see...I hope it does! :o)

Are you experiencing an unusually high level of stress when
it comes to dealing with your partner? Our team of experts will
show you the proper way to restore the lines of communication and
get to the heart of the REAL issues that are bothering you as a
couple.

When a codependent and a needy person get together, both parties
get into a reciprocal state that may mimic a healthy relationship
on the surface. However, this "mutually beneficial" cycle is
actually destructive for the people involved.

In a typical scenario, the needy person usually mistakes his or her
parasitic need for a person as true love.

Despite their potential for truly caring about someone else, a
dependent individual is too caught up with draining their partner's
resources without giving anything back. Often, you'll hear such a
person saying that he/she "can't live without" their partner.

To some extent, we all have an inner need to be nurtured. Once in
a while, we yearn for someone else to be in charge of our welfare.
The problem is when these kinds of feelings become the single, most
powerful driving force in a person's life.

By being totally dependent on a partner or spouse, the needy one
has no real interest in growing as a healthy person. Instead,
their never-ending feeling of emptiness and low tolerance for being
alone, even for a little while, pushes them to suck the life out of
their partner in this one-sided relationship.

There are even some cases where a dependent person incapacitates
him or herself on purpose so that their self-sacrificing partner
will be forced to spend all their time on them.

Usually, the root of this dysfunctional behavior traces back to a
deprived childhood.

This kind of mindset can develop during a person's formative years
where the subject's parents have neglected their emotional needs in
some way.

When a needy person grows up with a lack of attention or adequate
nurturing, they evolve into highly insecure adults. They often
have this perpetual sense of being incomplete and even doubt if
they are truly loveable.

Thus, they find the real world a scary place and form relationships
out of their fear of being alone (rather than out of love).

On the other side of this vicious cycle is the codependent person
who unconsciously perpetuates this sort of relationship.

He/she feels this overpowering need to go through ridiculous
lengths to take care of their dependent partner's needs without
focusing on the actual root of the problem.

Codependency is a condition where someone is driven to assume any
and all responsibility for everything as they feel that they are at
fault. So, they take up the needless (and often thankless) duty of
dedicating all their energy to fixing everything to an unhealthy
extent.

In essence, there are just some people who assume NO responsibility
for the state of affairs in their lives and forsake any attempt at
self-reflection. They end up frustrated because their
eager-to-please partner buckles under the strain of being the sole
provider of their happiness.

If you look on the other side of the coin, there are partners who
take TOO MUCH responsibility in areas that are beyond their own
"jurisdiction". When these two types get together in a
relationship, both of them will end up miserable in the long run.

If some of this is sounding nauseatingly familiar, it may be time
to sit down and talk about it. But most crucial to your success as
much what you say as how you say it. Conversation Chemistry is a
course that specializes in positive communication skills:
http://www.meetyoursweet.com/conversationchemistry

This kind of self-sacrifice comes in different forms. A common
kind of codependency lays in the person's ability make endless
excuses for their partner's needy behavior.

They are so willing to compensate for the serious imbalance in the
relationship - even if it means compromising their integrity or
ignoring the real problem.

For example, a woman might encourage her emotionally abusive
husband to remain the same by stretching herself thin. Out of some
misplaced sense of pity, the codependent party actually prolongs
their partner's behavior by doting on them instead of truly helping
the needy person.

Perhaps a husband is married to an alcoholic woman and absolves her
of any responsibility for her actions. Rather than help her go
through the painful but necessary process of rehab, he takes the
"easy route" by denying reality and unconsciously supporting her
neediness.

Another variety of codependency occurs when one fears that their
needy partner may no longer need their "help" one day. In this
way, they misinterpret keeping their spouse dependent as nurturing
them.

When you look at things closely, the pleasure this person gets from
the power they have over a needy person actually stunts their
partner's emotional growth.

It's the dread of not being "loved" or needed that keeps both
partners running around in circles - and exhausted in all respects.

Like needy people, these codependent partners usually develop their
neurotic tendencies during childhood. This is highly likely to
happen if their parents happen to be needy people themselves.

The seeds of codependency take root in a young person's mind when
their parents complain to them (implicitly or explicitly) that they
are causing them unhappiness or stress.

Thus, they feel responsible for other people's joy and are ridden
with an unnecessary guilt.

A truly healthy marriage or partnership is made up of two
independent and well-adjusted people. Their deeds are done out of
a true concern for the other person, and not manipulation that's
masquerading as "good intentions".

For instance, a couple may occasionally take the load off each
other's backs by reversing their usual roles. A husband might try
doing the laundry while his wife manages the month's bills for a
change.

In a way, they are exercising their "life skills" in the event that
one of them may pass away.

Loving your partner should overcome your need to be with that
person. What we're saying is that you should do what you can to
truly make him or her a better person even if it means difficulty
on your part.

Based on what we discussed however, distinguishing the things that
you are (and aren't) responsible for is a not a clear-cut matter.

Nevertheless, ignoring the issue won't make it go away by itself.
The first part of solving any problem is acknowledging that it
exists.

The problem that dysfunctional couples have is that they're so
trapped in a vicious cycle without realizing that they're already
knee-deep in a bad situation.

The human tendency to avoid the discomfort in dealing with problems
keeps many couples from ending their destructive patterns.
Remember, the primary reason that behavioral problems exist is to
avoid confronting reality.

Therefore, the key to finding relief goes beyond knowing you have a
problem. It also takes the determination to endure the inevitable
pain that comes with finding a solution. The sooner that we accept
that life is naturally hard, the easier it will be to do something
about our problems.

Sometimes, it takes the expert eye of a specialist to spot the
imbalance in a relationship. If you feel that any of the scenarios
we described somehow reflects your own situation, then seeking help
from a counselor will be helpful.

Seeing things from the perspective of a trained professional will
help bring any long-standing issues to light. While you're at it,
supplement your efforts by looking into local support groups and
written literature that deal with codependency.

The bottom line is this: the quest for emotional maturity as a
couple requires a higher sense of objective self-awareness and the
willingness to follow through with a long-term solution.

Yours in marriage success,

Amy Waterman

SaveMyMarriageToday.com
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/24/10 12:33 PM
I am going to vent here because I am really frustrated. This weekend was terrible and my husband and I got into terrible arguments on Saturday and he told me he hates me and is too restless and he can't stand my BS anymore, he wants me to leave and he wants to be happy and can't do it in our household, he is comfortable but not happy, it is not what he wants. I got emotional and cried like a baby and became depressed. I know this didn't help at all.

I even mentioned the married woman who has been persuing him and told him he shoves her in my face and why can't he ever just want to make it work with me? What is wrong with trying to learn new patterns and he said I live in a fairy tale world. What couple do I know that have been happy together since having therapy or counseling?

He said he knows who he is and what he wants and no one is going to tell him how he feels about anything. He said that he knows he has treated me like sh*t and he is sorry but he has every right to feel how he feels.

Than yesterday he kept talking about how if I won the lottery would I give him money if he were married to someone else and I said no, that I would if he were single but not if he were married. Than he said I tell him I want him to be happy but when it comes right down to it I really don't because if I did and someone else made him happy than I would be happy for him. He said that he would always support me and not abandon me whether we are together or not. When I came back later in the day he asked why I did not stay at my parents house for good (I was visiting) and I said I have a job and will not stay there. He said "good so I don't need to give you any money". I said, "yes, for the kids" and he said "only one of the kids is mine because she was planned and the other 2 were my fault."

I told him that the past few years I have been learning alot and understanding how I think better because of the ADHD diagnosis and he asked if he is going to have to wait another 20 years for me since I am 20 years behind everyone else and how he couldn't do it, he will be 40 years old in a few months and he is finally going to do what makes him happy.

I told him this morning that I do understand everything and why he feels how he feels and he said that I brought our relationship to this because I had time to fix things and didn't do anything about it and let it slip away, and it is the way it is because of me. He doesn't take any responsiblity for anything about our relationship problems and that really bothers me, I did not make it bad by myself.

He said that I don't have what he needs and I told him that I know that I do. He said that I may be convinced but he is the one that needs to be and he doesn't believe me and I haven't shown him otherwise.

I know my emotional state is not helping things. I just get so frustrated and upset, it is really hard to deal with this sometimes. I don't get to devote the time I would like to to reading and when I get really upset my brain seems to leave the building.

I pray and try to find ways to calm myself down because I know me being emotional is making the other woman 100% more appealing and easier for him to justify himself but it doesn't make me any less upset and hurt.

Does anyone have any pointers on how to calm yourself down quickly and not be hurt especially if they use the "buttons" that they know will hurt you and say some things that are true?

Thanks for any input! It is much appreciated!
Posted By: HeartsBlessing Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/27/10 08:18 AM
It's a long hard road to detachment, JeanBean..but necessary for your mental health to detach from his drama, and making a conscious effort to not allow him to affect you.

It's hard to remember what he's going through, and all too easy to get into reaction mode.

All it does is further feed his justification for what he's doing/saying..and when you become calm and detached, it takes away his ammunition.

When you detach, it simply means you recognize you cannot help him, and you refuse to get sucked into his drama..as you know, when you argue and try to make him see reason, it only gets worse.

Gotta learn to stand back and watch..yet, at the same time, work on yourself, learning who YOU are...as when he put you on this path that was not of your making, he made this about YOU.

No one said it was easy, but it CAN be done..learn to recognize the buttons he pushes, and try and remember that it's ONLY words, they can't hurt you...you know the truth within your heart, and no amount of anger/spewing can take that away.

Remember this has NOTHING to do with you, and everything to do with him...he's got the problem, NOT you.

There are grains of truth in all they spew, and look within yourself, also remembering that change, when effected, is for YOU, not him.

The crisis presents an opportunity for YOU to grow..hopefully he will follow, but if he doesn't, it's HIS loss.

Gotta let go, let God take care of the situation, get on with your life AS IF he's not in it for now.

When he needs you, he will come to you...

Been there, done that...wasn't easy for me, either..I wanted to argue and reason, and it simply cannot be done.

I listened to alot of angry spewing from him, and it took a great deal of strength to withstand the onslaught of hate, anger, and pure spewing that I listened to, and not take it personally.

You're right, as long as you're emotionally engaged, the OW looks more appealing, and, if possible, you'd like him to come back toward you, but be willing to let him go if he chooses to walk out the door....and he could, you know...again, that would have NOTHING to do with you, and everything to do with him.

When a person does something to another, the person that does it has a problem, not the person it's being done to.

I know you're going through an awful lot, but right now, he is NOT interested in doing anything about the marriage..so you have to let go, let God do His work on your husband.

Take care of you and the children, they are the most important people at the moment.

Much love,
HB smile
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/27/10 01:00 PM
Thanks very much for the words of wisdom HeartsBlessing! I know that you are right and it is very hard to let go, he has been in my life for such a long time and I don't want to be just his "friend" or the mother of his children.

I guess part of me feels really guilty because I have done alot of wrong too, I want to make it different but he doesn't and not even being given the chance hurts alot.

I basically did the same thing to him when we split before, I walked away and did not listen when he wanted to work on things, I wasn't interested - I was very angry and also ashamed of myself, I blamed it all on him but knew deep down that it wasn't right, we both were doing wrong in different ways instead of really trying. I ran away... so I do understand where he is coming from and learned myself how wrong it was.

"No one said it was easy, but it CAN be done..learn to recognize the buttons he pushes, and try and remember that it's ONLY words, they can't hurt you...you know the truth within your heart, and no amount of anger/spewing can take that away."

"When a person does something to another, the person that does it has a problem, not the person it's being done to."

The above are extremely helpful to me and I need to remember these when I am feeling weak and lost which seems to be happening alot.

When we were split before I met a woman at work who told me to "let go and let God, you are in the way" and it seems to be something that has been told to me often over the past 5 years. Perhaps I am more hard-headed and stubborn than I thought I was, my "helping" isn't "helping".

Another thing that I found very straight forward and useful was when she shook her head and told me to "woman-up!" She was a very wise woman who had lived a hard life and God helped her change everything for herself, a wonderful strong woman!

Sometimes when my husband talks to me it seems like he is light-years ahead of me and "gets things" and understands things and is so right on target that it is amazing. For a man, he can be such a deep thinker and understands people and their motives and intentions with amazing accuracy.

Thanks again for your words, they truly do help me and the support is welcomed!
smile
Posted By: Andabelle Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 05/27/10 07:36 PM
You posted before you left 4 years ago because your husband was violent. I am going to play devil's advocate here, and say maybe we shouldn't be encouraging you to stay with him if that is indeed the case.

Am I the only one that picked up on that, or are y'all just ignoring it?
Posted By: JeanBean Re: Need Help with Husband's MLC - 06/03/10 04:10 PM
Yes, I understand your concern. My husband is definately no saint. He has been violent in the past. He was abused growing up and was diagnosed with bipolar when we split up.

He went to anger management and I do believe it takes an effort on his part to restrain himself at times from his "first reaction", the one he was taught.

He is not like he was before in that respect, not saying that it could never happen but I have noticed since his seeking help previously he has learned other ways to express himself.

I have learned with most mental illness there are "triggers" that can make things really bad, it is learning the "triggers" and understanding what they are and yourself and those close to you that seems to help.

Thanks for the concern!
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