My last threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1992034&#Post1992034http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1991086&#Post1991086I'm starting a new one simply because I am shedding any negativity from my life and moving on up to the positive life entirely!
I'm still not sure H is in MLC or not, but I've committed to detaching entirely and bettering myself. It will be hard as I seem to still be in anger stage with him. Trying hard to release, and usually am doing well, but occasionally will find myself day dreaming of hurting him, rejecting him WHEN he comes back to me, etc. (You see, I now know he will come back to me b/c I will be so AWEsome at that point, but by then, who knows if I will want him. I'm a little afraid of that, actually.)
Reposting my commitments to myself on this new thread so it doesn't get buried:
Restoration of ME:
1. Joining gym (used to be very into working out)
2. Eating healthier (been eating junk for too long b/c I eat differently than the rest of family so it's too hard to make two meals)
3. Going on several solo (with dog/s) vacations this year to paint and hike
4. Beginning to play guitar again
5. Taking voice lessons - ALWAYS wanted to do it
6. Painting/drawing again
7. Already began today to write poetry/lyrics. I don't have anything but a brainstorming paper right now, but I'll get there.
8. Cutting my hair, it's down past my butt - getting it styled
9. Going tanning - I'm TOO white
10. Gaining control of my finances, even though it's probably too late to stop the bankruptcy
11. Finding friends (how does one go about doing this?)
12. Taking midnight walks under the stars and in the woods and sleeping out under the stars more
13. Taking karate classes
14. Getting braces to correct one tooth that is crooked, probably whitening my teeth also.
Announcement: Number one CROSSED OFF the list already. The gym was running a special for people at my workplace for $20 a month, so I joined. It's half price from their regular membership, and it's walking distance from my work.
I'm going to be doing the Muscle & Fitness 90 day Rock Hard Challenge. It's an older challenge they ran, but it was so good and I got into shape so quickly before using it. Of course, I was 10 years younger then. LOL.
MH - What a great list of GALs. This will sure take your mind off of your H
Orthodontic appointment scheduled for May 18.
Don't know yet if I can afford it, but it doesn't hurt to check and I can always budget for it/save up.
Going to have a killer smile!
i like your list
good luck
Journaling: Just had our quarterly profit sharing meeting and H presented. I got up from my seat near him and talked to a man in the back. H did have his brow furrowed, I think I threw him. I was trying to watch his body language but didn't want him to see me looking, so I just detached and threw "happy and cool" vibes his way.
He's used to me being nice to him - having his cake and eating it too. I'm not sure what this will do to us, but I'm just not OK with continuing to allow him to cake eat with no consequences (ie being "friends" and "roommates" with me while he has OW on the side.)
Not sure which direction I will take with this, but thinking of trying dim for a bit. For me.
Experiment and monitor, right?
I got up from my seat near him and talked to a man in the back. H did had his brow furrowed, I think I threw him for a loop. He's used to me being nice to him - having his cake. I'm not sure what this will do to us, but I'm just not OK with continuing to allow him to cake eat with no consequences (ie being "friends" with me while he has OW on the side)
Question for you......
Did you do that JUST for the reaction ?
Mach 1,
Just thought I would tell you that you are a wise Db'er and so is Trapt.
That's it...The End!
Matt
Mach1, To tell you the truth, I did it in the spur of the moment, no forethought, just felt right. After I did it, I sat and wondered why - but it was probably just instinct and having thought through yesterday many thoughts about two things:
1. I know I cannot change anything, and H is half way out the door with OW at the moment. Never mind that she's not right for him and it's just all silly, high school games - he thinks right now, in the moment, that she's his soul mate. Having internalized that - I decided to do the one thing I CAN do and that is work on me - to make me happy, fulfilled and complete/whole.
2. I really had a lot of a-ha moments yesterday where times and actions on H's part showed me over and over throughout the day, like God was showing me a movie, that H likes to pursue and he also likes having me "right where he wants me." He cake eats like a pro... and while I am GALing for myself, H will be wondering and panicking about what went wrong... although last time I went dim, H told MIL that I was off doing my own thing and seemed "fine" with everything. I'm really not sure on this path, but I'm going to take it and see where it leads.
Now, that being said, getting up and moving just felt right, it was not thought out, but as I sat there, I did start wondering "what does he think about what I just did." I had those thoughts pop in a few times, but slammed them back down and paid attention to the presentation.
I'm still not 100% detached, but I can see the path through the trees and am on it most of the time.
Have you always been reactive this way ?
It just seems to me that you are reacting negatively to the situation.
I'm not saying that what he is doing is morally correct or anything, just that an unspoken boundary seems a bit passive aggressive.
Thanks Matt....
Um, Hmmm, no I typically would have stayed and smiled at him, encouraged him, knowing he is nervous in front of crowds. This was a complete 180 for me to abandon him and it was absolutely perceived by him as something different that I did. Not sure what he thought about it, other than he got up and bolted out of there when the meeting was over, did not stay to look at me or talk or anything at all.
I didn't glare at him from the back or throw darts with my eyes, I still laughed and smiled at everyone and everything like usual, I just physically moved my seat to be away from him and the front of the room to the back of the room.
Okay,
Did you do this JUST for a reaction from him....???
There is a huge difference in doing a 180 for "shock" value, as opposed to...
Doing a 180 for you....
Because it is the right thing for you....
And that it may be okay to "go dark" , NC , or whatever you may call it...
And usually, it is necessary for the LBS to reclaim some normalcy....
Is this a boundary for you ?
Have you stated that boundary to him ?
Are you ready to back this up and be consistent?
No, I really don't know why I got up and moved, I just did it. Maybe it was for him. There was absolutely no thought behind it, I just did it. I'll have to think about this more.
I don't think I am ready to go dark, I was just thinking about how I can communicate to him that I miss the talks we used to have, the friendship we had... but I'm reading some old HeartsBlessing / HurtingBadly posts and she went dark, but also maintained a friendship. I'm just not sure how to do that. I want to leave that bridge up and that door cracked b/c it's a huge connection for us - we have so many common interests and really were best friends.
My H had an EA 2003-2005 and during that time we were friends, talked, ML, went out to clubs, relived his high school years. I had enough and pulled him back. I'm not sure if he is in MLC now - he acts like it, but the earlier EA makes me wonder... but then I think that perhaps he was starting an MLC and I interrupted it, which is why this time it's so much more forceful.
In any case, just explaining b/c H has been hateful and said really mean things to me, blaming me for everything wrong in his life and saying things like I have no morals. Projecting hateful actions onto me, etc. But in the past, he definitely was a cake eater, even to the point of admitting it after his EA ended.
PS with earlier EA - he relapsed and I caught wind of it and forced him back into the M by threatening to leave, giving him an ultimatum - and he chose me...
I feel like if I gave him that same ultimatum now, he'd walk, and I'm not ready to do that just yet. I can detach, GAL, etc, but I'm just not ready to PUSH him out the door, you know? I can live my life like he's not coming back, but if I were instrumental in forcing him away, I'd have a huge problem with that.
I wish someone could tell me - do this or do that... LOL
I would much prefer to be his friend and confidant, but this time he's actually going out with OW to clubs and bars and not me, so where before I had that outlet available to me, this time I do not. This time he is replacing my friendship with hers. He's even taking her on a trip with our friends that we were supposed to be going on. Last time, he let me meet some of his needs, this time he will not.
1. He won't eat my food
2. He won't do my laundry and keeps his purposefully separate so that he is doing his own laundry
3. He has gotten a separate bank account
4. He hasn't gone out and done anything fun with me for months
5. He goes out constantly with old friends (high school) and OW and never even tells me where or when he'll be home
Basically all of his needs are being met outside of the home and without me. I vacillate between (1) going dark and totally just moving on and allowing God to totally take over and move his heart back to me, and (2) stepping aside for God to do what He has to do, but at the same time trying to meet some friendship needs of H by listening, being there, laughing with him when we watch tv together (infrequent) and having good times on Tuesdays when we have family night.
Laughter is VERY important to H, very very important, cannot be overstressed, so this is a huge thing for us to do together.
MH, do you have the link to HB Hurting Badly? If you have it handy that would be great, so I don't have to look for it.
I can relate to your your view of not "forcing him out". I couldn't do it. When mine came back the first time, he moved back the same day he split with OW and 2 months of misery started, within a week he was back communicating with OW. I didn't know. He was not into working on M at all. WH walked around like the living dead, depressed and told me he felt trapped. I asked him why did you come back, you could have stayed in your apartment? No answer, he just asked me "Do you want me to leave?" And despite him making my life really miserable and seeing that he obviously did not want to be there...I said no.
The last 3 months that he was moved out I was his friend, DB'd like crazy and all he did was cake eating. So does being his friend work? He just takes advantage and maybe it removes his guilt, because he thinks that I'm OK with the arrangement and he has everything as he had before plus an "exiting" new sex partner.
If you give him an ultimatum, he may walk, they don't have the guts to do it themselves and sometimes they just look for an excuse, which you would give him.
I totally understand that you want to shake things up by changing your behavior. One of the DB principals is "if it doesn't work, change it".
Not sure if it applies in MLC. Not much step by step advice from Michele on that subject.
MnH
This
but then I think that perhaps he was starting an MLC and I interrupted it, which is why this time it's so much more forceful.
and this
PS with earlier EA - he relapsed and I caught wind of it and forced him back into the M by threatening to leave, giving him an ultimatum - and he chose me...
I feel like if I gave him that same ultimatum now, he'd walk, and I'm not ready to do that just yet.
made me remember this from my thread a while back that has stuck with me.
they roll around from day to day. That is why you detach...so you don't go through that roll with them. One day they are the old person...the next some evil alien...just how it rolls. Don't expect a commitment to the process. It happens when it does....any earlier than that and you might as well be talking to a dog. They look at you..listen and then are gone...well maybe a dog is better.....
I had to go NC to totally detach but you will know when you should do that. I did want to have some contact so we could be friends. But you CAN do that AFTER a time of NC and upon reaching loving detachment. I think if you ask yourself do you have expectations when you have conatct with H? Do you find your emotions swinging when you do? That's what it was for me and that's when I said enough...and went NC.
It got so much better for me after that...
Maybe that's the answer for me, then, I will just know when NC is right for me. Time to start listening to my intuition.
Mila, that's why I connected so much to you, I think, we are going through so much similar, except that my H doesn't always act so classic in MLC. I'm still on the fence. He seems "normal" and not depressed, but that may just be an act for me to see, b/c he perceives that I've moved on and am in a good mood - as he told his MIL. When "leaving" me (emotionally) he spewed hatred at me, but nothing since then - back then I was the reason for all that was wrong with him and was too controlling, etc etc. But he tries hard to connect to the children (tonight had a few painfully awkward moments with DSS16 trying to get him to talk... not how you connect to him, he is a QT kid) - and his voice is light and happy... not dark and depressed at all. He doesn't seem to be drinking any more, or at least not around me, and his anger seems gone... again, may all be an act?
Here's the most recent link from HB I'm reading. There are more.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137422&page=1Have you read her sermon thread?
I can't help but always try to "figure out" if he's MLC or not. It's so hard for me b/c he's so dark to me now. We don't talk about anything.
Truegritter, that's so true about the one day/next day thing. My H was so nice to me just recently I almost (almost) wondered if he wanted to try to see if there was anything left b/t the two of us. Remember, I was wondering if he wanted something from me? Nothing has come up yet, no "can I have this car and you pay for half?" or anything similar.
I have to be happy with crumbs. He's here in the house, has not mentioned D (except a few times in anger and almost always forgets about it instantly... or at least never truly pursues it) - and we still have good laughs a lot - again, if it were the Six Love Languages and not the Five, I'd say that was H's LL. LOL.
I guess for now I'll go dim, I'll not go out of my way to avoid him, and try to detach lovingly but still take opportunities to show how much fun/funny I can be and laugh with him.
I'm pretty sure he's blocked me from his posts on facebook since you can choose who sees stuff. My friend mentioned a post he made but it doesn't show up on my fb page when I look at his page. I thought about de-friending OW but haven't yet, and also maybe of de-friending him... but I don't know that I want to get rid of any source of intel, plus I know it drives OW nuts to think I have a window into her life.
Went out tonight and got a very cute pair of shoes, very sexy. I know that's not exactly GALing - but I got my bonus and decided to treat myself. LOL.
MH - what are you talking about, since when is "shopping therapy" not a GAL? lol
MH, Mila has a point. I think shopping is a great GAL activity!
Thanks all.
I'm actually smiling from inside right now. I guess it is really shopping therapy... don't know why I feel so happy, but I do.
Maybe it's just so many items crossed off of my list after just one day.
Maybe it was the lights from the tanning bed, I hear they help with moods.
Or maybe it's the sweet, black leather strappy high heels sitting next to my bed and waiting to look really hot paired with my skinny jeans and pretty teal shirt. Hope H doesn't mind going over the bills with me tomorrow at lunch. LOL.
I have to say Puppy, thank you for being on the boards still.
I have begun going back and reading your old Choc threads beginning when the EA was beginning and learning so much. I had started before but just didn't get through them.
Just want to give thanks where it is due. I'm to the point of the email you sent her... did that do any good?
Really give credit to all of you that have stuck it out around here to help out. Had I done that when I busted my D, who knows where I would be now.
Meeting H at lunch today to go over our budget, which we do every other week when we get paid.
I feel like we’re stuck in a rut. The only time we spend together is every other week for lunch hour.
I want to talk to him more and spend more time being his friend.
Temporary weakness.
Should I ask him what’s up in his life? Or just ignore the elephant in the room?
I want to say “H, I really miss being your friend and hanging out. I miss doing fun things together.” However, I believe if I do that, he’ll just see it as weakness and him having the power.
I really feel like right now, H is keeping me on the line in case R with OW doesn’t work out.
I keep thinking – give it time, the bomb was 3/29 and that only happened b/c I snooped, not b/c he was ready to reveal, although he told his mother he was almost ready to reveal.
Here I feel strong and I’m getting stronger and then this happens, I have to interact with him and I suddenly feel weak and impotent.
I want to make the most of every interaction with him.
I need some strong friends to come on here that have BTDT and help me with what I should do.
I need to come from a place of strength when I see him, I don’t feel he respects me at all.
The more I think and the longer I’m here, the more I think perhaps this is just an A and not a MLC, but that may also be b/c I haven’t had any spewed hatred at me for some time and I’ve left him alone to live his life.
I also feel like saying “this is just not working for me, I do not want to be the little fish while you are after the big fish.” But then, if it’s a MLC, I’d be pushing him and I don’t know if I should do that. I don’t want to push him out the door…
MH
I want to talk to him more and spend more time being his friend.
You are still too attached. Sorry to be blunt. This is where you are stuck. You are wanting to connect with him and this will hurt you.
I really feel like right now, H is keeping me on the line in case R with OW doesn’t work out.
This is probably true.
I want to make the most of every interaction with him.
Don't you see how focused you are on H? As long as you feel this way you will be stuck in his journey not yours. I know you have heard this but foucus on you. NO EXPECTATIONS.
I would keep it bid-ness for now....
You won't have to ask when HE is ready.
"How are you doing ?"
= who have you been with and why are you doing this
" I miss talking with you "
= I am such a mess with you gone, I am going home to rip my toenails out , cause it would feel better than this.
“this is just not working for me, I do not want to be the little fish while you are after the big fish.”
= Thank you so much for making this decision that I made, so freakin easy for me now, and I will sleep better knowing I made the correct choice.
Speak through your actions, not your words.
You aren't gonna talk your way out of a situation you acted your way into.....
What happened to that list you made ?
The more I think and the longer I’m here, the more I think perhaps this is just an A and not a MLC,
I think this is wishful thinking but it doesn't matter because your process doesn't change one iota. I think you know what you need to do but as I said earlier your pain will tell when that is. Detach.
“this is just not working for me, I do not want to be the little fish while you are after the big fish.”
Why isn't this working for you? Becasue he is not doing what you want? Becasue you feel pain? That is not his fault. It is your choice how you react to all this. You don't want to push him out the door you want him to stay so you can be miserable?
You should be comfortable with whatever he does because then you are detached and realize that you can't control what he does. You can only control YOU.
No tactics, no strategies no expectations. How do you make you move along and stop feeling pain?
Thanks guys, I needed to hear it. I'm stronger now.
I also have a lunch time appt to have a hair consultation that I forgot about, so I told H that we could do it later. Too bad b/c I was wearing my new strappy high heels and looking good. LOL
Momentary weakness.
So today you are Marked&Heeled!
LOL!
One of the things that I’ve forgotten over the years, and I am trying to figure out how to say this without sounding stuck up, is how many men have chased me in my life.
My H chased the heck out of me for a long time, years, actually. Once, when at a company Christmas party, I forgot my gloves. He and another man actually verbally fought over who got to give them back to me. Guess what? He won. LOL
Now, back then he was married and I never even saw him that way, we were just friends, and I guess there was an attraction that he felt for me. I felt it too, but never acknowledged it or moved on it – he was married and I just don’t do things like that… but it was there. For many years, I never “went there” with him, until he was ready to D.
I’ve lost half of the weight I had to lose. I’m down 40 of 80 pounds. I look good but not great yet. Good enough that I’ve had men flirt with me. I used to have men walk up and give me gifts, no lie… but I was much younger then.
Anyway, I’m just mentioning it because, yes, I’m smart and yes, I’m fun and loving and kind and talented. But I’m also very pretty and H is very visually driven. And I’ve forgotten the power I used to have over him. Now, I was younger then, and I don’t necessarily want power “over” him per se. But from a confidence boosting standpoint, he’s said he’s still attracted to me, and that’s me with a lot of excess baggage on me… I need to remember that I have this pull or draw or whatever…
He told OW she was the most beautiful woman he’s ever laid eyes on… and I have to tell you guys, I blow her away. He told me the last OW was skinny and I had gained weight and he didn’t want to admit he was so shallow, but it was important to him. He also mentioned that last OW began gaining weight after he said ILY to her. You see what I’m saying?
I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve given H all the power in this M. I’ve given up who I am in order to raise HIS children (and yes, I love them like they’re mine) – but in so doing, became a person who was not fun and what he wanted (OR what I wanted) – different from the girl he fell in love with. He’s had all of this over me b/c I changed to do what I thought I had to do to make this family work, and in the process, lost him… and lost myself and that’s when he took all of my mojo from me. I practically gave it to him, gave him all of myself and just got left with an empty shell, and that is not attractive at all… and I guess I ate a lot because I was unhappy. I suppose a lot of us here can say that we became overweight as a symptom of an unhappy life.
I guess another thing I’m saying is: H is a shallow, cheating, lying person. LOL. The rose colored glasses come off… but seriously, it’s important to him. I guess accept the good with the bad, right? I sound pretty shallow in this thread also. Honest, I'm not. Maybe that's part of the problem. I would actually go a whole day sometimes without ever looking in the mirror, not even to fix my hair or do my makeup. I guess maybe I was too depressed to care what I looked like...
I just wonder if the physical attraction thing, as I become more attractive, will be a bit of a draw to him… just a passing thought. Something for me to remember. Now it sounds like I’m making it a physical beauty competition between OW and me... YIKES.
Ummm...
While this may blow some of your perceptions of me...
Guys ARE shallow.
Sorry, its in our hardwiring.
Givin a choice we'd like our wives/girlfriends to have Victoria Secret bodies. Any guy who says otherwise is...
not being truthful.
And...
While visual stimuli isn't quite the same in you women folk...
Given a choice between Daniel Craig rising up out of the water or John Candy...
I got money on one answer being more honest too.
To answer your question M&H...
based upon what I said...what do you think?
However... do for you and F her...it is never a competion...if you make it into one... your self esteem WILL SUFFER in the short term. Do this for YOU, Fukc anyone else.
I agree with Jack, I couldn't have said it better
Jack Black made a pretty good romantic lead in The Holiday with Kate Winslet although you are right Jude Law was more my type.
I do agree men are more visual
But you do have to make changes for yourself. I too compared myself to ow. I was surpised how plain she is but I worked on me for me and I still beat her hands down LOL
More journaling: I remember way back when H was D his first W, he mentioned that when he asked for D, she held onto him and he felt nothing, absolutely nothing. He relayed this info to me with disgust in his voice, he had total contempt for her.
I guess I've been thinking part of the reason he didn't leave me last time with his EA and this time, is because I react with strength when he tries to leave.
Also, when we ML last, he was drunk but started crying and saying "I'm just so scared." And he's mentioned before that he thought he came back to me after the last EA b/c he was scared of leaving me. Fear seems to be a large motivator in his life.
Now, he also was in a total fog at the time that he said both things, but perhaps underlying emotions came out best then?
I'm still reading chocolateyes threads from the past and this is what is prompting me thinking about H so much, so don't worry, guys, I'm not getting or feeling weak. I'm just trying to figure out something important that seems to be just under the surface, something that's poking out saying "pay attention to me, this is important" and I haven't gotten it yet.
Hi M&H- just thought I'd stop by your thread! Thanks for your input on mine.
You know- the old intuition works wonders. When you said you didn't know if you should be doing NC yet or what, you said you would let your intuition guide you.
Meanwhile you are looking hotter and hotter....and you are about to change your hair and tan! Those are 180s!!! So do it fir awhile and then see.
meetup.com has options for activities where you can meet friends!!
Hey, newmama, thanks for the recommendation on meetup.com - I joined a few groups. Nothing for any time soon.
As for the visual nature of man... I guess I'm good with that. LOL. I don't think it's a detriment to the species.
Went out to see Iron Man tonight with H and DSS16. Good movie. Had a good time. H was annoyed at me for asking him to hold my water while I went to the bathroom after wards. Actually, I just handed it to him... lol... sort of like old times, I just assumed. He didn't over react, but he did show annoyance. Should remember not to take things like that for granted. Stupid little things annoy him, like I hear him sigh when I don't stop long enough at a stop sign, and I just know he's annoyed at my driving. He's done it a lot when I drive, sort of drips off of him. Never used to care about my driving.
None of it bothers me, I'm just logging it for curiosity sake.
More journaling. For some reason, this stuff comes at night... What does it say about H that twice in our M a woman has come along and showed interest in him and he jumped right in with them - AND thought they were his soul mates...
If it were me, I'd be shopping around (not while M, but while looking for a R) - dating, meeting men, talking, interviewing for the position, if you will.
H takes the first thing that comes along and jumps right into "let's run away and marry, we're soul mates, and meant to be toghether." He barely knows this woman, but yeah, she's his soul mate... based on beer and sleep and food... LOLOL
Anyway, trying to figure this one out. What is it he's missing in our M that this happens with him. He has to figure it out, and if it doesn't get figured out, we can never heal...
Hi M&H
It never hurts to put the questions out there!
Wish I had some insight!
Hope you have a wonderful Mother's Day!!!
Just had another thought... I must be driving you readers nuts with this... LOL
I just posted to the "where did our screen name come from" and I thought... I chose Passenger because I expected a roller coaster ride, but I haven't gotten that.
I got a steady, downward ride - it's totally different than last time. Last time, H seemed up and down, unsure... but now he is steady and perhaps that is why I keep asking if he's in MLC or just having an A.
I don't know what that means. Maybe it's just my feelings right now, or recently... maybe he's not as solid and decided as I think... but where is the up and down? Where is his anger and depression? He seems to be in such a good mood lately.
He's even stopped drinking, and while that should make me feel good, it doesn't. It confuses me.
OK, so many negatives have been going through my head and I don't know why, so I'm going to post the positives - even if they could be two sided.
1. H has not brought up D in any real way -just when angry- but could be that he's using me
2. H is still in our house, although not in our bed
That's all I can think of... I'm going to try to add to this, just for my PMA.
Anyway, trying to figure this one out. What is it he's missing in our M that this happens with him. He has to figure it out, and if it doesn't get figured out, we can never heal...
This statement asks and answers!
What is missing is within HIM, not your M. He has been looking outside your M for "it", but will only find "it" when he looks inside. It may be an unmet need from a previous developmental age, an expectation created when he was younger, an unresolved issue from a previous R, or a multitude of other possible things. Like you said, he has to figure it out for himself.
Just my .02!
MH - If it makes you feel any better, my H was like that as well while in the affair and still at home. Everything I did was annoying to him...yes my driving too. Or he didn't like how I wash the dishes or how I play with my glasses when I'm thinking....every little stupid thing. I would hear him sigh all the time.
It stopped when he moved out, he was actually very nice to me and even started complimenting me on many things including my looks. Go figure....
Thank you, WhatNow, but I'm really starting to question whether my H is in a MLC or not. He's behaving like himself again, he's just cut me out - if that makes any sense. There's no anger, depression, confusion, drinking, he's just convinced himself that I'm out of his life.
Trying very hard to leave him in God's hands, it's so hard because I don't see the daily workings on his heart, and it feels like it's the end to me.
I'm not saying that from a place of fear, although I do feel fear, but from a place of what feels like realism to me. It just feels like my H has left me entirely and he's just fine about it.
Mila, thanks for stopping by. My H is not showing overt hostility any more, or even annoyance, I just read him well because we've been together so long. Did your husband show overt annoyance, or was it subtle?
I feel very much this morning like going out and dating. I don't understand this feeling at all, like I just want to move on already. I didn't feel this last time.
I have also questioned a lot whether my H is on the bb and reading these threads. I wonder if I could get any support over on the alt for these questions...
I just went for a drive to think things through and I used a digital recorder to record my thoughts while driving.
One note is that my voice sounds depressed. I wouldn't have known that if I had not used the recorder. H doesn't have to "smell" out my fear/sadness, he knows from listening to me. Now, I feel depressed when I'm around H, which is one thing that came clear while I was driving and thinking.
Some clarity came to me while driving, and the first is above. When I am away from H for any length of time, I feel strong, confident and forward moving. As soon as we spend any time together at all, I'm unsure, depressed, sad, angry, hurt, and impotent.
Part of why I feel like this is that I am letting him treat me like a doormat. I told him when he agreed to no contact that I wanted to work on the marriage and he can have his freedom to "find" himself, which is what he says he wants to do. It's not what he's doing, he's running around with OW, using me to maintain the house and the kids, and spending "feel good" time with me and the kids once a week - so now I feel like not standing up for myself is causing me to feel like a doormat, which is further depressing me and holding me back from becoming great and self fulfilled.
So, the question is, do I go dim? I could go dark and leave him to take care of everything behind me. The kids are ready to go down south to live with their mom, which would NOT be a good idea (past abuse in that house). So, I really feel like I'm stuck to take care of the kids, I may be their only chance at any normalcy right now. They're 16 and 20, so they don't need a lot of care, but they do need some. Emotionally they need me right now, especially the twins.
I really believe after taking that hour to think things through that what is holding me back is allowing the contact between H and I to continue. It hurts me and drags me down every time I see him and like say he wants to work on our M, or even ADMIT that something strange is going on... instead of acting like everything is fine and it's normal for two people to live like roommates like this.
As soon as we spend any time together at all, I'm unsure, depressed, sad, angry, hurt, and impotent.
See, your body and intuition is starting to tell you it could be time to do something different. Is it going dim? What would that look like? What are the things you haven't tried yet?
For me, I feel like I did everything except going dim so that is what made me do it- not to mention he is going to D me so might as well? lol! And I feel like a huge weight has been lifted every time I don't have to see him....which is 90% time.
Are you thinking of something like you move out or he moves out? Or do you want to try something like severe 180 in house...cutting off things you used to do. Being busy and gone. Not talking to him much except hi and bye....what types of things?
I felt like you. When H wasn't in contact I was happily detached but if he called he easily sucked me back in. Until now.
Last week I had a very odd 48 hours when I felt like kicking my marriage into touch and finding lots of things I wanted to do, some hobbies I had before we had the children.
Since then I have been totally detached and he has been here 4 times this week! It is almost like a water shed when you realise you can no longer go on being bounced around.
I am now calm and have no anxiety. I don't think of him often and even then it is whether he has arranged something for the kids. I know he is with OW but can't do anything about it. I also think he notices a change in me. I am always positive, friendly etc but this last week I am not only positive but relaxed and content. There is a strength about me I never had before.
Maybe you are now at this crossroads when your inner self is saying time to detach properly to wait. I haven't gone dim because of the children but I have definately detached and love him from afar.
M&H
I really believe after taking that hour to think things through that what is holding me back is allowing the contact between H and I to continue. It hurts me and drags me down every time I see him
I have come through this part. Which is why I posted to you that you will know when this needs to happen. Your pain will tell you...
...I think you hear it now.
I had to go NC for a couple of weeks. On the other side of this very hard excercise is peace and strength.
Thank you all for your posts. I have to think, newmama, still what this means. I want him to move out, but I would not ask for that. More like just not being available and leaving the room, etc.
I'll think that through and post before making any moves.
Libby and Truegritter, you have given me hope that although I am scared to death to do this, it's what I need to do for me.
On the other side of this very hard exercise is peace and strength.
This is what I need and I need to hear. Thank you all. I don't want to do this, I really, really don't. I want to do what worked for me before, during his last A, but this A is different, it's different in how it feels and how he's treating me. For one thing, we still had a strong friendship and were hanging out constantly during his first A... this time he is hanging with OW and leaving me entirely alone (with the kids)
My stepdaughter, at 16 years old, is wise beyond her years. She said tonight that (1) she thinks of Dad as having multiple personality disorder, and (2) that I should not push him or address him when he's the alien because his "other" will stay in charge of his mind, and if you don't push him, his "other" will be put away. Also, she texted DSS20 and asked if he knew that his dad was lying to him when he said he was sleeping in the living room b/c of his snoring and he said yes, he knew that. They're not stupid, and are upset that H is lying to them.
MH...wow! YOu have done a lot of thinking and asking questions of yourself. It is possible to be dim with your H living with you. It is totally up to you and what you are comfortable with and if someone leaves, it should be your H but with your children being step children...how would that work?
Whatever you decide, I know you will be ok!
CW - this is my house, I have dogs, poultry, and the kids to consider. DSD will live with me and at least one DSS would... probably both would stay with me.
And since I KNOW that he will come back around at the end of this, after growing (both of us) and have a GREAT R - it would be best for them if he left. LOL
Seriously, I don't think he will leave, though. The house is not huge but big enough to be able to avoid him... plus he's out overnight with OW most nights.
Ok, I am understanding now! Well, that is just wrong that he is out overnight with OW!
I, too, have been doing a lot of thinking and will admit that I am just not sure...I have days where I am still hoping for H to come home and reconcile and others where I am positive that I am through with it all! Whatever happens, I know that I will be ok!
Just make sure that you are ready if your H surprises you and decides to leave.
Well, good, I'm glad someone understands because I sure as heck don't. LOLOL.
Yeah, I kept saying that I don't understand how he can be out overnight with her when she is married, but then again, so is he and he's out with her...
Nope, don't understand a thing, but I guess that's because it just doesn't make any sense.
If he leaves, it will be easier in some ways b/c my livingroom will be clean of his clothes, us two girls can share the bathroom without having to wait for him to get out in the morning, and I won't have to spend any time wondering how he's being affected by me and my actions. I would miss him in many ways... but for instance, I miss him tremendously in the bedroom, miss him holding me at night, and waking up to him in the morning, but I also am loving having the whole bed to myself every night. I can stretch out, and cuddle with my big puppy girl.
MH
And since I KNOW that he will come back around at the end of this, after growing (both of us) and have a GREAT R - it would be best for them if he left.
This is YOUR truth. You have to go on down the path to get to it.
You have to continue your journey.
You have to be the stronger one.
Make the hard decisions.
Have the courage push through this MH.
MH
Just wanted to wish yiou Happy Mother's Day!
H took DSS16 to his Monday activity and I suspect I won't see him again until tomorrow before work. He'll be home around 5:30, as he leaves OW at 3:30.
I know where he goes, but don't have proof that I want to share.
Should I just feign ignorance? I am not snooping any more, as I only did twice, once to confirm the A and once to confirm he wasn't maintaining no contact like he had promised. He is hiding it from me.
This is my last stuck point. The rest I'm good at.
Pretty well decided that I will be laying down the boundary of not sharing my money with him any more. We'll split bills 1/5 me and 4/5 him excepting the mortgage, which I'll pay 50% of. He still contacts OW on FB and that was a boundary I laid down. I asked him a few weeks ago to get rid of her as a "friend" on there and he said he'd think about it, he wanted to be the one to decide, so I've decided to tell him that since he won't maintain no contact in all ways, I will not be paying for his children any longer.
I know you're not supposed to be laying ultimatums early in MLC, so I'm about 90% decided on this boundary... I already said it but he may have just forgotten about it. However, I feel he's disrespected me by saying he will not cut her off entirely.
(remembering that he thinks I think he's not seeing her in person and the PA has stopped... but I know that's a lie)
This is my last stuck point... the rest I'm very good with, thank you very much... moving forward, feeling good, going to get off these stupid, addictive boards for a few hours tonight to file my taxes finally so I can speak to lawyer tomorrow to file bankruptcy (reorganization, not discharge of debt) and start over financially. I'm looking forward to getting back on my feet financially. We make decent money but neither of us can say no to the other, especially me to H. (I like to eat out occasionally but H likes to blow money constantly and buy toys.)
I'm grateful that I have this chance to start over, many do not get it.
Bombed on my diet, you guys... I ate junk today. Starting fresh tomorrow. Part of it is not getting to bed early enough so that I oversleep - and don't get up to go to the gym... when I work out, I don't want to eat junk.
Journaling: Hmmm, weird, H came home at 8:30. So weird... where on earth was he for two and a half hours? And why did he come home so early?
I don't care, guys, so don't say "why are you trying to figure it out, just go with it?" or anything - LOL. It's just an odd thing to happen... thought it was worth journaling.
M&H- excuse me for being nervy and asking, but what does not paying for his kids have to do with him not taking OW off of his facebook? Is it a punishment? Do you hope that by switching up the bills that he will take OW off of facebook? Or what? Thank you for explaining- I am curious and nosey!
Now about feigning ignorance about where he goes when he sees OW. It seems like when you are ready to switch approaches, or change something up, it would make sense that you could let him know that you know where he goes at that time. Because it would be part of the whole change in the dynamics between you and your WH. Do you see what I mean? letting him know that you know at this time, when you aren't making any major changes, isn't that powerful (IMO). But when you are ready to go dim or dark (if that is what you choose) then it seems like letting him know at that itime would make more of an impact.
No, absolutely NM, you're right to ask. My H and I always had a rule with the children that the punishment must fit the crime, if you will.
H agreed to no contact. He did not agree to work on our M during that time, as he's "done" and will "never" feel anything for me again... regardless, OW is supposed to be working on her M. They're meeting and having sex just like before... and they're M. They are not behaving as spouses should behave.
As a M stepmom, I shared my money equally with H.
He's not behaving as a M man, and therefore, I believe that if he's going to treat me as a roommate, he should have to take not just the "fun" roommate behaviors/consequences (going out to all hours, not checking in with anyone, no responsibility to his family, f-ing another woman, drinking, spending money) - then he should have to also have to take on the not-so-fun responsibilities, such as paying for his own children. If he were to D me, he would be doing this 100%, and he's telling his friends and family behind my back we're as good as divorced now... so why should I be paying for his expenses? He agreed to no contact and being on fb and talking to her is contact. He's breaking the agreement he had with me.
Now, by extension, he should also be handling all the other things, such as making doctor appts, driving them to activities, making dinner, grocery shopping, etc... but he won't and they'll suffer, so I'm still doing those things. Mostly, I'm here emotionally for them when they blow up due to the stress they're under, and they do that frequently, and I am here to teach them life lessons, which I do frequently - and most of that stress and most of those lessons are around "why is Daddy acting this way" and questions such as "will Daddy leave us?" and "where is Daddy, and why did he blow off my sweet sixteen (yes, he disappeared... and none of her friends came either, they all called and said this coming weekend would be better due to mothers day...) so DSD16 was abandoned by her friends, so I took her out to buy lunch for the kids and an outfit for her and her daddy left to be with OW rather than come with the family.
I agree about not letting him know now... it's just that it's like lying to me, since I know he's still seeing her, but then again, I haven't snooped or anything so I have no proof recently, just a really good gut feeling. I just feel like one of my boundaries would be that if he is still having sex with her, that may be it for me, I may ask him to leave, so I wonder if I should be purposefully NOT asking questions and NOT finding out intel, just so that I can keep the status quo, so to speak. I know in my heart and soul that if I snooped today, I'd find evidence today that they're still meeting, having sex, and planning on "telling the world of their great love" and divorcing their spouses as soon as "their spouses are strong enough to handle it" and running into the sunset together.
Meanwhile, he's telling me he's had no contact.
I guess my question is... if I said to H "have you maintained no contact?" and he told me that he is back in contact with her, is it an appropriate time to tell him, OK, pack your bags.
Are there any old timers that would comment on this?
This was a post I made under my alter ego back during my H's EA in 2003...
You better come over Renew. You are such an inspiration with your patience and determination. So many can and have learned from you. Come on over. If I'm here, you definitely should be!
Christine, thanks for the kind words. I do believe we will make it. I still love this man with all my heart, and I believe he loves me. He has just been hurt and disconnected his feelings. He doesn't know how to find the road back to feeling that love again. I hope to be his guide, and I hope I continue to find strength in the posts surrounding me.
I am looking back at them to see what has changed since then. I feel more broken now, I was much more optimistic then. I think it's the second time, plus all the energy I've put into this family, plus our finances being messed up now... I'm feeling broken.
I keep picking myself up and then falling back down.
Time for a written game plan, that's one thing I did before that I am not doing now. I had a game plan to follow and things to check off as they were accomplished.
OK so you are trying to act like a roommate would since he is treating you like one and only sees you as a roommate....
roommates: (polite ones?)
split bills
have their own food
take turns cleaning
sometimes hang out together
sometimes let the other know if they will have company (like if someone will spend the night)
don't have to tell the other where they are going or doing
So not paying for the kids is only one part of the whole roommate scenario but I get it.
Interesting- wonder if you just kept going with this. Actually, you should check out SeeingRed's thread in the infidelity forum bc she just shared a session with her DB coach- Red's H has been in a long term A....maybe there is some advice that she received that could help you!
Well, I have to say everyone, I feel like my mojo is back.
It's family night, every Tuesday we do something with the whole family, including DSS20 if he is around... anyway, went to the store to get some adult beverages and H just sat there in my car crossing his arms and physically putting off the vibes of "I'm as closed off from you as possible." LOL, I'm smiling as I write this... I just felt like - HA! I got your number, buddy. I just felt that it was intentional and I am starting to feel that when he feels close to me or in danger of being close, he physically closes himself off to maintain the distance.
I know this is not a game, but I just feel like right now, I'm having a bit of fun. I know he's in pain and I will not lose sight of that, but it's just become funny to me. When I walk in the room, you can feel him pull away - and this is the big thing... it's not getting to me. I feel like I'm GETTING IT and it's not a "oh, no, I'm going to die" moment... it's not "he's in control and I feel like less than nothing" or anything similar...
It's a "I'm in charge of myself and I'm feeling good about myself" kind of feeling.
From this distance, from way up here, I am able to observe H and see what he's doing and why he's doing it... and NOW I am in a great place to WIN this game of life... to not only detach and become a great person but to also be ready to rebuild this M one day.
M&H...sounds like you are doing well! Go girl!
MH - you are all pumped-up....good to see. Detach, observe and don't forget to GAL
Journaling: I fell asleep on the love seat and the kids went to bed and H got up to do the dogs and said in his "I don't want you around" tone "time to go to bed..." I fell back asleep, I was tired, and he came back in and said "don't you think it's time to go to bed." I was like, yah, whatever. I sat up and tried to wake myself up and finally went to sleep with the dogs. No worries, it's not affecting me.
Trying to detach doesn't work until you're ready to do it. Maybe the work I did looking at myself, praying, reading on detachment, etc got me to this point, and I'm not promising that I am totally detached - but something has changed, it feels different this time than a few weeks ago when I had the detachment feelings but wound up getting sucked back in.
This morning was typical with me singing songs and dancing around the dogs, making breakfast - and H alternatively looking at me with confusion and a look that tells me he's trying not to be amused.
Oh, he also sent me some craigslist ads yesterday for motorcycles for me. I know he wants one, and perhaps he feels like if he finds one for me, it gives him permission to get one himself. He said he was looking for cheap bikes and they are all smaller, like what I would need. That sounds plausible, but why send them to me, he could have just ignored them... that was a notable thing, so I'm journaling it also.
Today going to get my taxes filed. You all can hit me hard with 2x4s if I don't... I have been saying every day that I'm going to do it and it's been almost a week. I have to get that done before I lose my mind, I have to file bankruptcy to stop from losing our apartment building, which H is still not done with.
MH
Trying to detach doesn't work until you're ready to do it.
Yup! You'll do this to the degree you need to when you're ready. You have been feeling EVERYTHING lately, questioning it and looking at it. It is what pushes us forward on our journey.
I know this is not a game, but I just feel like right now, I'm having a bit of fun. I know he's in pain and I will not lose sight of that, but it's just become funny to me.
It's not a game, but sometimes it seems like it, doesn't it? You're doing real well and that's a big step to be able to see what he's trying to do.
Journaling:"time to go to bed..." I fell back asleep, I was tired, and he came back in and said "don't you think it's time to go to bed." I was like, yah, whatever.
Of all the things! Don't you hate it when someone TELLS you to go to bed!
RE: detachment, It really does have to do with feeling more ready to do so. I also find trying to take it just one day at a time helps (i.e. not saying, I will detach forever, or until X, etc). Works better some days than others though
Like the new name
- SCh
Why is it that I'm finally getting control of my emotions, I'm kicking butt on finally "getting it" on what MLC is about and what I need to do... and now my eating is out of control again?
I've eaten candy every day this week, and have gained a few pounds instead of losing.
I sukc. LOL.
You wanted in your face types? M&H?
1st...Bow-chica-wow-wow!! That's what she said!
2nd...Old Chinese curse: May you get what you wish for.
I know he wants one, and perhaps he feels like if he finds one for me, it gives him permission to get one himself.
PERHAPS he is going to form his own Biker Gang and go to biker war with other biker gangs and attack oil settlements when the economy collapses and PERHAPS you will be his Moll, and PERHAPS he might trade you for oil for his gang later...
Perhaps, he is actually thinking of you and thinks it is might be fun that you both go biking....perhaps in his own way this is a nice gesture. And who knows down the road...one day you might both enjoy some of the fruits of the MLC crazy tree. Perhaps you both riding on weekends is one of them.
PS if your goal was to lose wieght then yes you do suck. Kill the fat girl inside telling you candy is ok and equals love.
If you didn't have a goal and are happy with your body...then you don't suck. But candy still doesn't equal love. ; )
Jack, you made me smile - really smile. Thanks.
Yes, I really like you men. Maybe I should keep my posts shorter to attract more men to my posts.
Yes, I have a goal... and no, candy doesn't equal... wait, does it???? Umm, no, it doesn't equal love. LOL.
Hmmm, oil settlements, num num num (said in my best - OK, worst, Homer Simpson "doughnut" tone)
I'm going to make a commitment to NOT eat any more candy or sugar until I'm down 40 pounds from here... Excepting ice cream... can't give up ice cream, but only twice a month.
Is it wrong to poke the tiger because things seem too quiet and you're bored?
OK, JK - sort of.
So, is that why we don't have more men posters? Cause our posts are too long?
Is it wrong to poke the tiger because things seem too quiet and you're bored?
OK, JK - sort of.
Tempting...
Maybe I'll just throw him some raw meat and see if he bites before I poke him.
Is it wrong to poke the tiger because things seem too quiet and you're bored?
Tigers like pepper they hate cinnamon.
Yes we men have short attention spans so can't handle long...Oh look there's a squirrel!
My favorite quote is from DSS20 best friend.
"I have ADOS- Attention Deficit - OH! Shiny!"
Hate cinnamon... is that why he left the bedroom because of my new cinnamon-sugar bedtime scent? I thought it was because his claws were getting tired from having to be out all the time clinging to the edge of the mattress.
OK, going to bed tonight in my new, silky nighty and covered in PEPPER!
Wait, cayenne or black?
Well first off...don't get upset if your planned expectation doesn't work out...just bring your own boyfriend.
IF you are refering to poking an MLCer just for fun...
I would have to question your desire to make this trip as short as YOU possibly can make it.
And no I am not saying you have any control...wait a second...hold the presses...YOU DO actually have some control on the ammount of MLC time they spend in there...you can make it longer. : )
But not shorter. : )
So you CAN poke the tiger...
I seldom say "I told you so"
but I'll be tempted. : )
Confused wife...
I don't often post to women because I cannot relate, your way of thinking is...
strange to me.
For example.
My wife...a 30 minute story to tell me that her new shoes got dirty.
Me?
A sentence...filled with cursing.
: )
That is partially true. I tend not to because I know I am rough and blunt and not many guys like it. I am not soft and friendly. I do not like making people feel worse, but I do like helping people think for themselves.
To me, it seems like women (not all) want a shoulder to cry on and for someone to tell them, its ok.
And, I see the need and help of crying, but I'd rather have the shoulder to help me stand as I move forward...crying or not. Down the road HAS GOT to be better than the crappy place that makes you cry and if it isn't down the road further has to.
: )
Dang it all, just when it was getting fun.
MLCer is out for the night on a super secret foray anyway... DSD just called me to let me know. It seems the playful mood is in the air tonight at the Healed household - she poked the tiger for a bit (and no, I did not tell her to. But I did laugh at her for it... I have decided to let her and H have their own R without my interference, as long as it's not hurting her) She asked repeatedly where he was going in different, funny ways, but he just kept saying "I have errands to run." LOLOL - if she was my child, I'd say she's a chip off the old block.
Sometimes I wonder if he's CIA and not MLC. Super secret missions on Wednesday nights that will take until tomorrow morning... hmmm, he does do karate.
I sneeze at too much pepper, so probably for the best.
Jack, I'm one of those strange women. I always say to people, I'm not a girl, I'm a ME. I don't fit into definitions of gender... the only girl in a large family of boys, maybe that's why I really like it when you and the other blunt guys post to me. Not saying I don't like the soft touch also. I have moments when I want to hear poor baby... but they're few and far between.
However, being in a playful mood tonight, take this as it was meant... maybe the women like it when you're around being blunt because it feels so good when you LEAVE... LOL.
Jack, I'm one of those strange women. I always say to people, I'm not a girl, I'm a ME. I don't fit into definitions of gender... the only girl in a large family of boys, maybe that's why I really like it when you and the other blunt guys post to me.
Me, too. Jack was one of the first to post to me, maybe because it was obvious from the beginning that I didn't need the gentle touch.
And M&H, I've been feeling like poking the tiger for some time now, too, but have resisted the urge. It's like he's digesting a very large meal, and I think it's best to just let him do it rather than suffer the consequences of interrupting him.
J3B's
I do read your posts to other people...you just tell it like it is. That is a good thing! I have learned a lot from reading yours and the other guys and if you ever see something on mine that requires a 2x4, please feel free! In the beginning of all of this, I would not have been able to handle it but think I have toughened up a little!!!
Thanks for all you do on here...all of you!
What is it with all us wimen folk looking for the abuse? LOL
Hey M&H!
I see you took a couple of days off! How are you doing?
Hey M&H,
Just checking on you, it sounds like you are getting stronger every day!
(((HUGS))))
Hey all, yes, I took off a few days, and then again today I spent with DSD - her friends blew her off again. More drama in teenage girl-land. Poor thing. She just wants a friend to stick with her and not do the drama, I hate you today and love you tomorrow thing.
Anyway, I have come to a new place of clarity and forgiveness and love with my situation and all involved. I've come to a realization of a few things I have to fix about myself. Taking off time really does help. Each time I do, I feel like I grow by leaps and bounds.
H took off today to stay out of DSD's way for her sweet sixteen party take 2. Second time he's left during it, second party attempt, second time no one showed up. This is not an unpopular girl, I just don't know what's going on. I have to dig a bit, I wouldn't be surprised if she's being snide to some friends b/c of the pain she's in. I know the school counselor said her brother has been depressed and angry at school and wanted to know what was up. Anyway, she had 10 people coming today and a pinata ready to go, cake, chips, hamburgers, soda... all sitting on the counter and looking sad. Poor thing, Mom moves several states away, best friend stops being her best friend b/c of jealousy, Dad goes into MLC, and she can't have a party that anyone shows up to. DSS20 was hanging with friends and came home to hang with sis when he found out what happened to her again, which I thought was just a very loving, sweet thing to do. They are such good kids, so I guess I didn't do everything wrong.
I'm feeling like I may apologize to H's XW for any part I may have played in the breakup of their M. I'm still thinking it through. It was 12 years ago, and he told me that he had asked for D long before I came along, she knew the score, he never loved her (sounding familiar?), he was sleeping on the couch... and I'm thinking, OMG, I was an A on his first W... well, he as much as came out and told MIL that I was. I feel like to achieve true forgiveness, I should apologize to her... any thoughts? I may not have known what was truly going on with them, but knowing what I know now about A's and knowing that H is capable of telling OW that he's never loved his W... well, it fits to me. I did ask him to date other people before we got serious, but he refused, and I believe now I should have insisted on some time before we really got together after his M ended... I was young and stupid and really uninformed.
Anyway, that's where I'm at today.
Oh well, at least the house is clean. LOL.
It was 12 years ago, and he told me that he had asked for D long before I came along, she knew the score, he never loved her (sounding familiar?), he was sleeping on the couch... and I'm thinking, OMG, I was an A on his first W... well, he as much as came out and told MIL that I was. I feel like to achieve true forgiveness, I should apologize to her... any thoughts? I may not have known what was truly going on with them, but knowing what I know now about A's and knowing that H is capable of telling OW that he's never loved his W... well, it fits to me.
M&H, as a fellow BW, I have definitely recognized the difference between unsuspecting OPs and the ones who KNOW FULL WELL what is going on! (like the OW in my life-she knew who I was, was "friends"(lightly) with me, so noooooo sympathy for her!)
Now, for me, if I knew my WH was cheating and wanted a D but didn't know who she was, I would be dying to know anything about her! It would also comfort me to know that she had NO CLUE about the truth. I don't know what others would tell you, but I vote to reach out to her, in some gentle form. If she is not interested in talking to you, fine. So how would you contact her?
M&H - I'm not sure if I would want OW to contact me and apologize. Actually when my OW broke it of with my H for the first time she apparently wanted to call me and apologize. I'm glad that she didn't. I don't respect her and it wouldn't have made any difference how I feel about her at all. It would probably make her feel better, but it wouldn't do anything for me.
I know that your situation is different, you didn't know that you were the OW, but would that make any difference to her now? You still ended up with her H.
But it all depends...Have you had any contact with her in the past? Do you talk about the children? I'm assuming those are her kids that you are raising. It really depends what kind of relationship you have with her.
Difficult one...I'm sure that you will get more opinions.
Hi M&H
I don't post much anymore, but I read along from time to time and I've been reading you for a while. I'm impressed with the self-reflection you're doing and the learnings your making about yourself and your life. We become really powerful when we start to live conciously.
The whole ex-wife thing is interesting. My xH was well and truely out of his first marriage by the time we got together, and the kids always lived with us but I had a tricky relationship with their mother. I was jealous of her and like you, young and very naive.
It's interesting to me, over 3 years post divorce, still maintaining a very strong relationship with my step-kids, my relationship with their mother has actually become a really nice friendship.
You may or may not have been the OW. It doesn't really matter now. What you are is the children's step-mother and you obviously have a strong relationship with them. That's the basis for any relationship with their mother.
Take it from there - the other stuff is too old to worry about and if she thinks you "stole" her husband and she's not over it yet, you apologising isn't going to help her get over it!
Keep up the good work. This work you are doing now - particularly being honest with yourself about the blinders you've had on to some of Hs flaws and what that means about you - is really tough work, but the lessons will be with you for ever.
Take care, V
Thanks everyone... I should have made it more clear. In the beginning, XW was very hateful towards me. She had a reputation for being that kind of a hateful woman, so it was par for course. This was a woman who when the garbage collectors came over, they put everyone's cans back on the sidewalk, but threw hers all over the street just because she was such a nasty woman... she was also young, very young, at the time. She and my husband were dating for just a few weeks when she became pregnant at 18, him at 23. I remember the first time I met the twins, they were 4, and DSD said "you're the whore" in just the cutest little tone of voice.
Fast forward 4 years, I had had enough of the hateful comments and spew coming from her and invited her and her new H, by whom she had also "gotten pregnant" and M just a few months into their R... who later called my H and swapped notes on how he felt he had been tricked into M. (I'm starting to remember all of this and perhaps my H was not entirely dishonest with me... feeling better) In any case, I invited her and her H out to breakfast to discuss the children and calling a truce. I still remember the adversarial R we had at that point and I was sick of it. XW and her H and my H all were just going along, but I was having none of it any more. XW's H put a tape recorder on the table before we began... and I just said, look, we all love the children and this has got to stop. They are half of you and half of H and by telling them that H is bad, you are telling them that half of them is bad. It was like a light went on in all of them. Since then, well, I wouldn't say I would have sought her out to be friends, she was not a nice person, but we have all been friends.
A few years later when her H called my H and asked if he had also been tricked into M her, they were having problems. I got her the DR book and 5LL and they reconciled. She then called my H and apologized to both of us for being so hateful and the role she had played in the breakup of their M. It was like she finally got that she wasn't perfect and admitted her mistakes and I think she was OK with things then. It was at that point that we went from being cordial to her calling me for all sorts of things. I taught her to can food, gardening, we swapped notes on the kids, and finally her H, who was physically abusive, did it one too many times and the kids all came to live with us.
More recently I've forgiven XW's H for the abuse of the children because he went to anger management and became a Christian. She is also trying to build a Christian M now, and I think they're trying very hard... I guess they're moving so far away was an attempt to start over, but the kids are so hurt by it. They will be going down there this summer and I'm so afraid that she will try to keep them. I'm not convinced her H would be able to control his temper if DSD lived with them, as she loves to push his buttons.
So, that's my story... typing it out may have helped me a bit. I guess it may make me feel better by apologizing, but it may make her feel like crap and rip open old wounds.
I think instead of contacting her to apologize, I'll just check in to see how she's doing and trust that God has forgiven me for anything.
Hi M&H
I don't post much anymore, but I read along from time to time and I've been reading you for a while. I'm impressed with the self-reflection you're doing and the learnings your making about yourself and your life. We become really powerful when we start to live conciously.
Well, thank you for posting to me. I appreciate seeing a new person on my thread, and you had some thoughtful things to say... and thank you for the above, it made my day.
Need advice.
I have to have a conversation with H about bankruptcy. He is in avoidance right now, wants to blame me for our money troubles since I paid the bills - and he's partially right... but he's not taking any responsibility. I know this is MLC and he won't right now, but I want to make sure I don't do or say anything that may come back to haunt me later. Like, if he believes and I don't say it's not true to him - that I'm entirely responsible for our finances right now, will it keep him from reuniting with me later? Do I say gently to him, no, you're also responsible?
The truth is that he filed bankruptcy with his XW before we got together, so everything is in my name, and he is using that to say "see, you handle the bills and all the credit cards and houses are in your name and therefore they are your fault/responsibility." I got him out of that mess, put him on a budget, paid his bills for him, and rebuilt his credit. Then we wound up in the same exact mess now.
I'm going to have the lawyer file on Monday. H is under the impression that he will be able to leave his name off of it. H is a big part of why we will have to file. I'm not saying he's all of it, but he's 75% of it. Another big part is me not being able to say no to him when he wants to eat out or buy a toy or is not getting the job done at the apartment building and keeping the apartments empty for 6-12 months for minor repairs and painting between tenants. I do like to eat out, though... and I admit to that part. My avoidance of the issues was a big part of it also. I have to deal with that, it's one of my flaws. Having helped others out of debt (which I'm really good at - try taking my own medicine, huh?) - I know avoidance gets bad in people in our situations, so it's as common as rewriting history is in MLC... guess we're all wired the same no matter who we are.
Time for me to break the mold here and now, though. I'm filing Ch 13, which is the repayment, and we've separated our finances and I'm doing well already. Getting everything in a budget, I'm not a big spender - although I've been spending a lot on DSD lately - have to stop that. I am seeing this as a new start and although, would rather not have had it come to this, I'm hopeful about my future now.
So, how do I handle the convo? Any suggestions?
PS I also don't know what to do about the fact that H just bought a brand new, $20k car which will cost him about $350 a month plus insurance and taxes... he takes delivery of it on Monday. I told him that I will not support him getting a car to go see OW and we split our finances off. I did tell him that he can do what he needs to, and maybe encouraged him that way... but I showed him his budget and he's clearly in a loss position each month, and I'm in positive - since he has the kids, of course.
I feel like I told him it was OK, in his fog, he believed that is what I was saying to him. However, he was always that way before MLC, if he wants something he wants it and pines for it despite me saying no, and he never did grow out of that.
Maybe this is part of his MLC, though? I know he bought and paid for a car he loved while a young adult that was repossessed. Maybe he needs to have that happen again? Or almost happen and then man up and save himself? I just don't know... I guess trust the process, right?
Hey MH....I really do think that our H's are related somehow! wow!
They keep saying that once the "alien" has come through mlc and out of the tunnel that they are not the same...we can only HOPE!!! As long as they keep some of the qualities that drew us to them in the first place!!!
MH - Once you get your finances in order, you will breathe easier. I find that part extremely stressful on the top of the R troubles. Especially when H is flaking out again...spending 2 weeks out of a month on "vacation with OW" instead of concentrating on our already suffering business. Grrrr
Is you H on board with your plan to separate finances?
H started the whole separation of finances thing… he was thinking that he could get his own bank account, have his direct deposit go directly into there, and hide how much money he has. He then would pay his bills and take the rest of the money and party with it… or spend it as he sees fit. I know that sounds dangerously like mind reading, but I do know my H that well.
Basically, one thing he said is that I control everything, and he wanted to control his own finances.
This is how he does that:
-I go online and check the bills twice a month.
-I ask him and the kids if anything is coming up we’ll need money for
-I put together a spreadsheet of everything we owe
-We meet, I go over the spreadsheet and tell him what I need to pay
-He transfers the money to our joint account
-I write checks, put them in envelopes, address them, put on stamps, mail them
-He blames me for our financial situation since I do the budget.
Voila, he’s “in control” of his life… silly, isn’t it? Am I the only one that sees this? LOL.
M&H
LOL! I almost spit the coffee out of my mouth!
M&H Because you do all of the accounting (work) you are controlling? Wow....
I do all the accounting, bill paying, budgeting...I wish My H asked to do it for a change....It ain't gonna happen....he DOESN'T want our finances separated...It would mean work for him.
Yeah, I see it like this. H is a replay-teenager and he wants to play house with me while playing grown up with OW. None of it is real, but for some reason, he feels like he is "doing it" his own way. Bizarre. I would not be happy with playing "I'm in control of my own life." I want to BE in control of my own life, GWIM?
M&H - He sounds like a teenager trying to be independent..."I can do it on my own, I don't need you (mom) anymore"
Can you say replay.....?
Yuck, I think OW may have moved closer to us. May mean she and OWH are not working it out. She lived an hour away and just saw on FB that she's listing her address as a town 15 min from us.
Yuck yuck yuck.
I hate this.
M&H,
Your H sounds like my ex, he didn't want to deal with finances, so I paid all the bills out of the joint acct. When he wanted a D, he told me to continue to pay the bills b/c he trusted me but after I found out about ow, he opened his own checking acct & said "you are not in control anymore", I told him then I never wanted to be that I tried to get him involved & he didn't want to be. But, I know why, b/c he can't handle money!! He is not good at it! Now the ow woman handles the money. Since the beginning of the year my alimony check comes in ow's name only, I have a strong feeling she is hiding money from my ex.
That would be awful to have the ow close to you! Really doesn't make sense.
I'm so sorry you are having to go thru all this mess!!!
(((HUGS)))
M$H
I sure hope OW has not moved closer....
(((hugs)))
M&H - sorry about the OW, if she gave up on her marriage and moved closer to your H...that sucks. You will see what's up if you notice any changes in your H's behavior.
(((hugs)))
Hi M&H,
Just checking on you! I hope you are doing well!!!
(((HUGS)))
Hi, all, yes I'm doing well.
Some days I have doubts, like today, that I'm not making a big mistake that H is in MLC. H just seems to be gliding right along. OW on the side, no waves being made by me, he just spends 1/2 his time with her and half at the house. I never raise any issues and neither does he. It's truly like we are roommates and he's just done with me.
There are clues, of course, that things are not OK with him. They're few and far between. I guess no one MLC is the same and this just is a bit smoother with not as much anger and the blaming and anger were short lived. His replay just seems to be so smooth, so calm... it's disquieting, to say the least.
So, I'm just going on with my life like nothing is amiss.
-God is a big part of it now, I pray a lot and he answers my prayers in ways that I am surprised at entirely. I KNOW he's working on H's heart, but I don't see the fruits of that yet.
-I'm planning on projects around my house, trying to get it under control and looking pretty again. Hoping to entertain there soon, before the summer really hits. I have HUGE projects to get done, like planting a whole yard full of grass with no sprinkler system to water it with. Sigh (we have well water and no pressure so it's very difficult if not impossible to get a lawn going, plus the turkeys ate everything)
-I'm working out daily at the gym, but still not getting my eating under control. It's like I impulsively eat, and can't seem to control it when I'm doing it. Any suggestions, I'm open. I think that the stress I'm supressing is coming out in destructive eating
-I bought some canvas yesterday and have some paintings planned, going to start with a twilight scene in the woods and there's a path. Something I saw in a dream, I was on the path and the brush gets very dense at times. Later, I have another picture that is further back in perspective and it's a mountain, with a path going up that splits and then meets a few times on the way up, finally meeting at the very top of the mountain. Another vision. H is on one path and I'm on the other. My path is shorter, so I have time to stop along the way and enjoy the view, pray to the Father, etc. H has a windy path that seems to take forever to reach the top of the mountain. If I rush along the shorter path, there's a chance that I can reach the top too fast and get impatient waiting for him and start back down the mountain in disappointment, before he reaches it. Then when he gets there, he may see signs of me being there before him, but I'll already be gone. Therefore, this vision showed me that I must take my time, and really enjoy the path - the journey itself - and not rush to the finish line.
I'm going to be doing some work around the house that H, my procrastinator H, has never gotten to. Can't wait to start on them, should take me less than a few hours to get it all done.
I have an appt on Monday to file bankruptcy, which I'm looking at as a new beginning. Hope H sees it that way when we meet at lunch.
M&H - That's great that you are keeping up your gym routine. Thumbs up. The eating part, I would think that stress is definitely a factor...everyone handles stress differently, some people can't eat (me) and some people overeat...don't beat yourself up over it, you will get it under control once you are more in control over the R & your financial situation
(((hugs)))
So, I'm just going on with my life like nothing is amiss.
-God is a big part of it now, I pray a lot and he answers my prayers in ways that I am surprised at entirely. I KNOW he's working on H's heart, but I don't see the fruits of that yet.
Have you heard or felt God speaking to you about what you can change? About 3 weeks before WH told me (the most recent time) that he wants to move forward with D, my body and intuition was nagging me to change the arrangement of visitation we had going and to go dim. I couldn't eat(NOT LIKE ME!) I couldn't sleep, the next day didn't bring me comfort (like in the past). I tried to ignore it and justify it and said it was just me being impatient, scared and wanting to give up...but I really think it was God telling me it was time I did it. Well, I just was waiting for the right opportunity I guess, so when WH said he wanted to D, I implemented the changes then.
The reason why I tell you this is that my grandma reminded me that we can pray and ask for answers, but sometimes we get an answer and don't want to accept it. In my case, I wanted to explain away my feelings for wanting to go dim and not see that it was God telling me to do it! I said that it was reaction based on the last discussion WH brought up about D!
I really am not trying to talk you into changing something- your vision of the paths to the mountain is super clear and impressive! I am just sharing that we all do things in our own time, and that if we pray (or meditate), the answer will come to us if we can "hear it." And in my case, for many many months (12 to be exact), the answer was not clear...seriously. There wasn't an answer which to me, meant "wait. be patient. do not change anything."
Ok one more thing- I do think that there are events or timing that can help to launch a change...i.e. when you file for bankruptcy, perhaps that will start a chain of events that will cause you to change something. Perhaps not! But it would be a change in the status quo, right?
(NOT THAT YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT YET!You will know when you are ready!)
Journaling: H is off to Montreal this weekend with his karate friends. I know in my heart that OW is going with him. I asked him what he was doing and he said in an angry tone "party, party, party." (This was in the context of a conversation where we were just making small talk together, so I didn't see it as me prying.) I just said "sounds like fun."
I am actually looking forward to doing some fun things this weekend. One is changing the bathroom colors. I think that every time H goes out on a weekend all through the summer, he will come home to one major improvement in the house. I don't know why but it just feels like a fun thing to do...
Newmama, I really appreciate your post to me today. It’s weird, sometimes what God wants me to do is so clear and other times it’s just NOT and those are the times when I really feel like I just need to be told what to do because I’m indecisive.
I think what you said has a lot of validity to my situation right now and I will really pray over this and see where it leads me. I agree, right now I think it’s not time to change anything, but I have really been having this nagging thought that it’s time to start PLANNING more stuff. Getting ready. One was more vacations. I love to travel and H really benefitted from my love of travel, but we’ve stopped since the kids came to live with us. I have an opportunity to go to Germany with my mom soon. I may have enough frequent flyer miles to go and my stepdad is working there so my room would be free. (he stays in an apartment his company owns.) All I would have to do is pay for food. So, things like this I think will really help my PMA plus it would drive H nuts because he would want to go… he’d remember what he was giving up by not being with me. Now, that’s not my reason for going, but it’s a thought in my head for sure.
Anyway, I’m pretty new to the listening to God thing… believe it or not. I’ve prayed my whole life but being still and hearing him is new to me and not coming naturally. Thanks again!
M&H...you are sounding very good! Love your plans to the changes in the house!
What is helping you "listen" to God? I hear this from HB and now you...
Oddly enough, it's when I drive mostly that it comes to me. Sometimes a voice will come to me, sometimes I bring a little tape recorder to talk into and then "insights" will just come to me. I find myself driving down long, back roads more and more just to get in touch with that voice.
I'm trying to learn to meditate more and listen to him, but often what happens is my mind wanders and I fall asleep.
Oddly enough, it's when I drive mostly that it comes to me. Sometimes a voice will come to me, sometimes I bring a little tape recorder to talk into and then "insights" will just come to me. I find myself driving down long, back roads more and more just to get in touch with that voice.
It's really interesting that a lot of people who go through crisis like these (and make no mistake this is much a life crisis for you as it is for your H) do find the ability to tap into a spiritual energy that is incredibly helpful for the rest of your life. I suspect we all have it, but it takes a really hit over the head to hear it and learn to use it.
The eating thing is weird too. I’m the same. When things were really tough post separation I ate and ate and ate (and drank a lot of wine too … way more than was probably healthy) but as I’ve healed, this miraculous weight loss has occurred without even trying (like 20kg of weightloss that had to happen).
We carry our weight around like our pain (some naturopaths and healers say that excess weight is our emotional pain manifesting in our physical body) and by eating we’re feeding it (because you’re not ready to starve it yet). As the pain lessens, so does the need to feed it. You’ll see. It’ll happen.
That observation you made about how you loved to travel before the kids came to live with you is a really important observation M&H. It’s taken me a long time to figure this out myself, but I know for me that my xH met this vivacious, energetic girl who was on the verge of continuing life’s grand adventure (I’d just returned to Australia from a couple of years working in development in Eastern Europe and I was off to Pakistan for another contract). I fell in love with him, constant phone contact while I was abroad, he came and got me and I didn’t finish my contract. Then the kids lived with us and I was working a very conservative, but high pressure job and I became bat-sh!t boring. I wasn’t me anymore. That’s what happened.
I wonder if the pressures of step-parenting, running a family, working hard, being a wife and still trying to maintain the authentic “you” is even possible – like who’s got time????
The thing I’ve reflected on is that despite how difficult and painful the separation and ultimate divorce were, a few years down the track I’m now back to being my authentic self. I do a crazy job which I LOVE – I’m back in my field, doing stuff I’m passionate about (no more glam but boring jobs climbing the career ladder, clawing at the glass ceiling for me … ever again), I have great friends, an amazing family, gorgeous step children and an xhusband who would give his right arm and left testicle for a place in my remade incredible life.
And all I had to do to get here is to remember who I really was and be
her again (it did take me about 3 years to figure out!!).
You are fast on your way M&H. Keep at it.
V
Sorry for the quick hijack -
Wow, Walking. What a good story and good advice about finding our original selves. I too found that I got a bit boring, yet I totally didn't dislike me as a wife. I think we all make compromises for the relationship, and that changes us somewhat. If you took XH back, could you still be the real you and work on that relationship?
M and H - I too have been trying to hear 'the voice' but find it difficult. So many people post about how their relationship with God or spirit helped them. If I do hear something, I find that I doubt it, thinking it is just my ego or 'voices in my head'. How to know the true voice?
Thanks M&H! I will keep working on it!
Walking-glad to hear that you have found the person that you were! Have you considered taking your xh back? Was he mlc?
Got some great posts above and I'll respond but I am really trying (failing) to file my taxes tonight. I'm just so depressed.
This is the weekend H went to Canada with friends and OW, and it's really affecting me. It's hurtful after I've felt so detached for a while now.
(((((MH))))))
Just when ya think you can't be hurt any more than you have already....Don't beat yourself up about feeling it. Roll...feel it and then let it go....Easy to say, huh?!?!?
I have to watch myself when I am going thru what you are now. That's when I get PO'd and do something impulsive, like send a bitchy email, or text or VM. Yikes! Focus on the IRS!
M&H - I know....the up & downs of our rollercoaster life are sickening. When we think that it's finally stopping swoosh...another curve. So unpredictable how these moods come and what triggers them.
Logically we all understand this yet it's hard to control. I'm sure that it will get easier with time.
Yuk taxes...I don't envy you
(((M&H)))
You have been doing very well and you will again. As Mila said, this is the ol' rollercoaster!
Doing taxes on top of being sad...no good!
Hope tomorrow is a better day for you!
Thought for the Day: “There are those who become disappointed thinking that God hasn’t spoken to them because they have not heard a loud booming voice. But, He does speak to us all of the time - mostly in quiet ways that we need to keep our eyes, ears, mind, and heart open to hear.” Have a spectacular day today! – Elmer Laydon
I found this and thought it was perfect for what we have been discussing on your thread MH!!!
Hoping today is a better day! Did you read "An update" from yellow rose on here! It is a mlc success story!!!
(((hugs)))
Hi M&H,
I'm so sorry you are having a hard time, but I know exactly what you mean!!! Been there, done that! You have come so far & you have been doing so well, you have a right to have those days.
Believe me, I still have them. I like what CW wrote above - I have to take that advice myself.
You hang in there. We are here for you!!!!
(((HUGS))))
If you took XH back, could you still be the real you and work on that relationship?
Walking-glad to hear that you have found the person that you were! Have you considered taking your xh back? Was he mlc?
Sorry for this hi-jack M&H but I should answer these questions because they are important for the LBS on this journey.
See, here’s the thing. I don’t know if my H was in MLC or not. Hell, maybe I was in MLC – certainly the woman I was when our sitch started and the woman I am now are two different people . I do know that we both went through a horrible and very sad life crisis during our separation and divorce and we both had to go through a process of meeting our demons, dealing with them and learning to live for ourselves again.
Thing is, my x hasn’t really done the work. He remarried very quickly (he told me “I’m sorry V, I just can’t live alone.”) that marriage lasted about 18 months before the wheels fell off. He hasn’t even really used that experience to grow.
I love my xhusband. He’s a fabulous man and he raised fabulous kids. He’s kind, funny and very successful – but he’s a boy emotionally and I don’t want that anymore. I have more faith in myself now and frankly my standards are higher.
We will always be great friends and we’ll always be in contact because we both love his children (and they won’t let me out of their lives god bless them) but I’ll never be with him again. That’s sad – and it’s taken me a while to really understand that, particularly because I know we could be together if I chose it.
Twice he’s told me that “we are the break up that never should have happened.” The first time was about 2 months post bomb and the second time was about 3 months ago. It strikes me that line has been going around in his head for 4 years (poor bugger!)!!
My next long term relationship will be with someone who shares my passions, understands and respects my lifestyle, supports my interests and respects the space I need to live my life. My x doesn’t share my passions – he humours me about them – that’s really the deal breaker for me.
The thing I’ve learned on this journey is that I’ll be OK. I’m a grown up and I’m strong and as long as I’m being the best me I can be, my life is going to be fabulous. If there’s a man in it, that’s a happy add-on. If not – I’m OK with that too because there is enough other stuff in my life to satisfy me and keep me happy and focussed.
But, He does speak to us all of the time - mostly in quiet ways that we need to keep our eyes, ears, mind, and heart open to hear.”
Ok, that sounds a lot like intuition...so could our intuition actually be God speaking to us? Pardon me for being slow...I believe in God but don't go to church or read the bible! Just practice the 10 commandments and Golden rule and pray! So my point is that if it has been stated in the bible that our intuition is God speaking to us, then I missed that verse since I don't read the bible!
Newmama, in my life I've found that He speaks to me in several ways. I've asked Him to be very blunt with me. You can do the same. Some people notice when they do things over and over, and keep failing that they get the distinct impression that it's God telling them to stop. I'm just not that good at interpreting subtle signs. I need Him to bonk me over the head and SAY it to me plainly.
Another thing you can pray for is to have Him direct your prayer, so that you know you are asking for the right thing. Remembering that if you ask Him to do something often enough, He'll do it, but it may not be in your best interest. Always ask everything in His will. You don't want to tie His hands. He may be working towards reconciliation in your life, but if you ask for H to come back
now, for instance, before he's done his journey, he may leave later and it may be for good. However, if you waited until God was through with him and his journey, you may have a happy, fulfilled marriage that lasts the rest of your life... for a small sacrifice of a few years in the middle of it. You see what I mean? I always pray that God brings my H and I back together in love and friendship, but that it is done when He deems us BOTH ready and when His will for us is fulfilled. Only then will we be perfectly matched for each other again.
I have literally, when praying over the couch where my H sleeps, FELT the power come through me. I have literally felt the floor shake and my vision brighten (my eyes were closed and the lights were off at night) and I had to open my eyes to see if the overhead fan was on, which sometimes shakes, to see if there was a "scientific, logical" explanation for it. This happened to me twice.
I've also HEARD a very clear voice in my head twice in my life. Oddly enough, once I prayed that on a certain back road where animals were always killed that he protect them so not so many would die. Then, I was speeding on this road to work and He said clearly in my head "You want me to protect the animals and you speed." LOL. I never drove fast down there again. It was so very clearly a VOICE and it wasn't MINE - it was like someone was in the car talking to me, and it freaked me out totally.
There is also something called laying a fleece before the Lord. I did it when I was 12 and my mother had taken pain pills after breaking her ribs and had a reaction. She was foaming from the mouth and her eyes were rolled up in her head and I kept calling the ambulance but they kept hanging up on me, thinking I was pranking them. I laid a fleece before the Lord, asking Him if my mother was to live, to let a bird land within the next five seconds outside my window on the wire. One did, then I asked if it was truly a sign from Him, to make him fly away within 10 seconds, and it did. Then, just for good measure, I asked Him to make three birds land, and they did. I knew then, and a peace came over me, that she would be OK. Within minutes, her boyfriend, now my stepfather, was at the door. He had an intuition something was wrong and he ran upstairs and carried her down the stairs and to the hospital. I KNOW in my heart that God called him that day, and my mother was fine. There is a biblical basis for this, and it involved an actual sheep's fleece. I find this doesn't work for me anymore, but it may work for you. LOL Maybe you're only allowed to do it once in your life.
I also know that when I pray, if I lower my head, and put both hands on the side of my head, instead of folded in front of me, I get stronger feelings of linking to the Lord. Everyone is different, don't be afraid to experiment with positions, times of day, locations, etc. For instance, I think everyone is closer to the Lord on top of a mountain. That's not just me, there's a lot of biblical and extra-biblical reference to it. For my Vision Quest, I had to climb the top of a mountain and abstain from food and drink for four days and three nights and pray. Moses climbed to the top of a mountain to receive the ten commandments. Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. I'm seriously thinking of camping on top of a mountain soon and fasting and praying for a long weekend just to dedicate my life to the Lord and ask for all that I hope for in my marriage. I'm a little afraid to do it for fear of the crazies out in this world, but I may be able to find another person to do it with me, just leaving me be but watching from a distance, like the medicine man does for a quester.
Oh, another thing is I pray before doing a bible study. I will go online and key in words like audio bible study... the first time I did that, I got an audio bible study of I Peter, and it took me right to the verse and chapter that I needed to hear, about marriage. It was really an answer to my prayer. That can happen also if you ask him to lead, guide and direct you.
If anyone else wants to add something on here, for newmama and anyone else that may be wondering, tell us what works for you and maybe you will help someone out.
Newmama, I also have to say that I didn't "go to church (except when first moving to our town so the kids would meet people) or read the bible" either. Since this began, I have done both, and I highly recommend it. You really get a lot out of it. Here's the audio bible study I found, maybe it will help you also.
http://www.audiobiblestudy.org/ And the church has been great, finding a good one, I cry whenever I go there because I just feel the love and it's something I really need right now. I was always afraid of seeming like a "Jesus freak" but now, it's just not even a consideration. Who cares, what I'm getting from this all is peace and a closer connection to God, and as I get that, I find other things in my life just falling into place.
I'm going to share something here. My H was going over our empty apartment for close to a year to "fix" the stove. In the apt, it's code to have one of those old gas on gas stoves that has a heater on the side. Well, this place only has the heater there and in the living room, so we need it. I changed the locks b/c H was using the empty apartment to meet OW and meanwhile, we're close to being foreclosed on for not having the rent to cover the mortgage. Anyway, out of the blue, after praying that God help my financial situation, I get a call at work. It's a rental agency I used maybe 10 years ago. They want to know if I have any apartments to rent. I explain that I do but it needs a stove. The man calls me back and says "go to this xxx store and they have the stove you need." I call, it's $500 for a refurbished stove, AND they'll haul away the old one for free. Really? I've lost over $9,900 in rent for a $500 stove? But, I never would have known about this store and the stoves if this man hadn't called me out of the blue and told me. I call that an answer to my prayer.
AND things like this have been happening to me all over the place lately. It's not just an isolated incident. Things happen that I just call too much to be coincidence. I feel God is working on my side, and in return, I feel I have to work to understand Him more. If I just prayed and said "give me what I need and I'll pray tomorrow and ask you for more stuff." Well, that just wouldn't feel right. So, I repay Him by learning about Him and beginning my walk with Him, by reading the bible and attending church.
M&H,
VERY WELL SAID!! I need to listen to you & do more studying of His word. I read, pray & go to church but I need to do more!
Thanks!!!
(((HUGS)))
I don't post much on my thread because, well, NOTHING ever happens in my life. Nothing. Never. No where, no how...
Is that sick? That I wish SOMETHING would happen to remind me that yes, he's in MLC? I'm so high energy and to not be DOING something just feels wrong.
Nope, we get up day after day, get ready for work, come home, make dinner, go to bed. Tuesdays are family night, weekends he takes off to be with OW but tells us he's going out with friends. He also has Monday and Thursday nights that he takes off to see her, returning home very early morning the next day.
DSD16 suspects OW, but I haven't told her. I don't know if it's the right thing to do. If it continues, though, I don't know if I can hold it in any longer. She's seeing clues and she's not dumb and I don't, as a rule, lie to the children.
My in-laws want me to make a decision. It's wearing on them. I told them and they understand and even say that they know this will take years to navigate, but they still want me to make a decision. It's hard, I wanted to focus on the family and keep grands connected together, but I don't know if it's in their best interest as it's stressful.
Maybe it's time for me to go over there and let them all know that I am standing and that's that... they seem to need to talk about H every time we meet, but they don't need to, really. Perhaps it's time to change the air and just say - hey, stop thinking about it. This is the new family structure for the immediate future. It may not make sense to you, but this is the way it is.
Still feel like poking the tiger, though.
DSD16 suspects OW, but I haven't told her. I don't know if it's the right thing to do. If it continues, though, I don't know if I can hold it in any longer. She's seeing clues and she's not dumb and I don't, as a rule, lie to the children.
Please do not do this^^^^^^no matter what. Even if she asks.
That truth belongs between her and her dad.
Which brings me to
Maybe it's time for me to go over there and let them all know that I am standing and that's that... they seem to need to talk about H every time we meet, but they don't need to, really.
Your thinking on this is right this is about YOU not what anybody else thinks.
Your decision to stand is YOUR choice.
Not about H and what HE might do.
YOU decide.
Your choice is about who YOU are, YOUR character.
Not to illuminate lack of H's character.
You don't have to explain it to anyone because they could not possibly understand what is inside you because...
It's YOURS.
Thanks TG, you confirmed what I've been feeling.
No one does seem to understand and it's frustrating b/c they SAID they understood in the beginning.
Sigh, at least I have you guys that understand.
OK, My H just changed his email address for his 401k - what's up with that? I got a message to my email saying if the change was a mistake, to let them know.
Help, guys, I'm thinking of snooping. I'm dreaming up all sorts of things right now, like H is planning a D as a bomb, etc. I'm sure OW is pushing him on the financial issues, he'd never be doing these things otherwise, they're just not his cup of tea, if you get my drift.
Maybe it's time for me to go over there and let them all know that I am standing and that's that... they seem to need to talk about H every time we meet, but they don't need to, really. Perhaps it's time to change the air and just say - hey, stop thinking about it. This is the new family structure for the immediate future. It may not make sense to you, but this is the way it is.
: )
Good idea.
Help, guys, I'm thinking of snooping. I'm dreaming up all sorts of things right now, like H is planning a D as a bomb, etc. I'm sure OW is pushing him on the financial issues, he'd never be doing these things otherwise, they're just not his cup of tea, if you get my drift.
...
snooping is like cocaine.
Ever try it?
Ever try and stop?
It is addictive.
Lets say you don't find something...now you HAVE to find something so you keep looking...or worse...you do find something and now you want to find more...
Its like falling off a cliff...really fukcing hard to stop yourself.
M&H - I understand your urge to "snoop" the need to know....but you already know....snooping will only hurt you and it's not going to change the situation or help the situation. Is it going to help you? What are you going to gain? Nothing...just more pain.
I have to agree--snooping at this point to get gory details does not help anything. If you wanted some motivation to get angry and leave, then go ahead. If you don't want to leave, then don't torture yourself!!!!
M and H,
Strength to you, your sitch sounds very similar to mine for the past year and half. My husband was at home most of the time, but would visit OW on weekends. He's still here, but just recently started D paperwork. I admit that I snooped a few months ago and found a 'happy anniversary' card from the OW. OUCH! Such pain, and I just kicked myself. However, when H started really pushing for D soon after, it did help explain his motivation. I think mine is getting pressure from OW. I'm not sure if it was in any way worsened by my attitude of knowing it was their 'anniversary'.
Probably you are better off not knowing, and if your marriage is in stagnation, at least it isn't moving backwards, and there is hope.
Thanks, guys. I'm better. I was just getting angry about finances. Money doesn't really matter and the fact of the matter is that he would have to have a QDRO drawn up if we got divorced to get any of his retirement money out. Before then, he needs both spouses to sign. In my state, retirement funds are marital property. Him changing his email address does nothing... I was just wondering what they were planning. Who cares in the long run? The Lord is on my side, so who can be against me?
Forever, so sorry... stagnation stinks, doesn't it?
My sitch is only 2 months from bomb and approx 5 months from when H started showing signs (HS reunion) - although I think this has been under the surface for 7 years already... but 2 months in from bomb is not very long and for it to be stagnant already, it's just so frustrating.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/06/01/jessicas-positive-affirmations.aspxAnyone looking to learn how to do positive affirmations, this is a must see.
This little girl is priceless.
M&H - That video is priceless - we should all take lessons from this little one. Maybe I'll try it - dance in the front of a mirror and chant about the good things in my life
You say "Stagnation stinks"...sometimes it may feel like stagnation, but you need time to "process" it all, you may not realize it but even when you don't think there is progress you are internally working through issues...don't be impatient with yourself. As you said your sitch is fairly new...it all takes time.
(((hugs)))
Love that video! Ok let me go have some affirmations at the gym. I am strong, I am loosing weight, I am toned, I can do this. Ha Ha Ha
M&H,
I got the bomb & he filed for d a week later. Stayed in the same house with me, he just moved to the guest room. I didn't know about ow & I admit, I had to snoop to find out. My Lawyer told me to find out, I hired a PI, but b/c ow was in another state I found out by snooping. I think b/c of all that I found out I got more in my D. My lawyer told me I did good. But my h was not open about ow, he lied & kept lying even after I knew (he didn't know I had found out). In your case, I don't think it's a good ideal, it's like the others have said, it only hurts.
And you are so right, the Lord is on your side!!
(((HUGS)))
Well, H took off from work today. I wonder where he's going. It is probably better that I don't know. Why do I want to know? Is it because I want to be a part of his life still? Or because I want to punish myself by knowing what should be kept secret so I don't hurt? Part of me still feels like I possess him, I guess. He's taking off from work, which is the livelihood of this house, to do something he won't disclose to me. It feels like he's stealing from us... and I have to let go of that because it's his life and he has to make the mistakes or not. When he said he was leaving, I panicked and started immediately thinking of ways to figure out where he was going... why? Who really cares?
Anyway, he noticed my new vanity plate yesterday that used to be his mother's after she got D from his dad. (he cheated) He stood on the steps and looked at it and said "Does mom know you got that?" I said, yes, she helped me with it and thought it was a great idea. He just stared and I ignored him. We were on the way to the store to get food for family night. We stopped at the corner store where the cashier is also a dog sitter. I had asked her to come by this past weekend to care for the dogs, and she asked if I found someone to do it. I said yes, but H was not happy. He was home and thought I had meant to imply that he couldn't handle the dogs. Of course, that was part of it. Last time, he left them to poop all over the house... but he's more settled now, if that makes sense. He mostly stuck around this weekend and they were cared for. So now he is upset about those two things.
Then we found a 2 liter bottle of soda in the back of my car. I do not drink soda, never have. Have absolutely no idea where it came from, and I'm sure he thinks we were using it to drink with. No idea, but I gave it to the kids as a treat.
Anyway, lots of poking the tiger, but none of it was intentional. He's just not happy. I could feel the stress and almost anger coming off of him as we drove to the store last night. He recovered quickly, but it affected him a lot. Why? (just journaling here) Is it b/c I was moving on? Or did he think I was implying he was not capable of handling the house?
This morning the kids asked him for lunch money and I gave it to them. He didn't have any. H was not happy with himself over that. I'm sure we'll see that he has lunch money for them from now on. He's trying so hard to be "single dad" and the truth is, he doesn't see how little he does and how much I still do.
Weird, about 4 months ago I fixed our dishwasher. It had been broken for a year and we never got around to fixing it. H had tried and failed and we were supposed to call a repair man. I looked online and found that the sensor had been tripped and it was as easy to fix as holding two buttons at once. Anyway, I never said anything to H b/c I didn't want him to feel like a failure. He asked and I explained what I did without making a big fuss about it.
Today he asked me about it. "I think it's great how you fixed the dishwasher. So, you just held two buttons? I looked online and couldn't find what to do." I just said thanks.
Strange that it came up, that's all. Guess I'm just journaling... weird stuff from H today.
He's trying so hard to be "single dad" and the truth is, he doesn't see how little he does and how much I still do.
It’s also not fair about the yardwork on top of all the rest of what you’re holding together. We as LBS’s have to take care of maintenance on our houses, keep the home clean, shop for groceries, take care of the children’s needs (if there are children), in some cases, take care of a business or rental house, pets, work full time, deal with depression, keep up a front, learn about MLC, read books, go to counseling, GAL, etc. It’s so much and some days you just want to curl up and scream. And add detachment to that list… AHHHHHH!!!! There, I feel better now. Give it a try.
M&H,
I read these two posts, one of them from Mila's thread and just wanted to chime in. You really hit the nail on the head.
Some days I do scream, I have my kids almost 24/7 and somehow manage to do all the same things. I have made up my mind that whether my W realizes it or not I am going to do all this stuff and more.
I sometimes feel like I am killing myself but I can tell you it gives me a big sense of pride that I can do this by myself. When my W does come over to the house and notices some sort of improvement or that the yard is looking good I do wonder if she "gets it".
They are too wrapped up in their own world and selfishness to appreciate anything we do.
Hi MH & MHL
I don't think they get it at all. I remember that right after he left us and left me to do everything by myself I had that conversation with my WH. His reply was "We all have our roles". Wow, I never thought that I would hear him say that to me. I guess he feels that because he is still there financially (I'm too) he is doing his share.
Mila, that's totally it, men often feel (no offense guys, it's much appreciated) that the money is the way they are to take care of their families.
MHL, I really, really pray and believe that one day God will restore my M. However, if I am reading Him wrong and he doesn't intend to give me back my H, then I secondarily pray then that I meet someone like you who is willing to go the extra mile for someone he loves. You are a prize. All you men on here are prizes, and I pray and hope that one day your wives will wake up and realize what they have.
And yes, you're right, it does instill a sense of pride and also awe that we are able to accomplish so much.
Mila, that's totally it, men often feel (no offense guys, it's much appreciated) that the money is the way they are to take care of their families.
yes...it is the "hunter/provider" within them...very instinctual!
I love men. Have I said that? LOL. I guess this is just my lonely side coming out, but I miss that hunter/provider. Nice strong arms. Sigh.
H is not home. Left at 8 this morning and no word since. I'm not caring really, I feel detached, I am just journaling. He told DSD she could sleep over a friend's house. He's been doing that a lot lately, on school nights. Tomorrow are standardized tests and this family will not make them go to bed at a reasonable hour. I hope she doesn't bomb the test. He's trying too hard to be nice to her.
Hey M&H,
I agree! I have that lonely side too!!! But it is amazing when put to the test what we can really do all by ourselves!
(((HUGS)))
Ya'll I'm very sad today. Missing my H
Many people say that it doesn’t matter WAS or MLC, they mimic each other and the actions are the same, but I disagree. There are a few small, but significant, differences, and I want to lay out my ideas here and ask you all for input. It may be an important distinction for newbies and I wanted to make sure that my thinking was clear on this. I meant to put this more succinctly, but it came out as a brainstorm. I will work on it to make it more clear as you guys comment.
Please comment and let me know if I’m wrong. First, the signs of MLC that differ from WAS:
1. Time, obvious, will be much longer in MLC
2. Sensitivity to outside influences. As someone who’s H went through a WAS A back in 2003-2005 and now is MLC, I can tell you it’s different. I was able to influence him last time, this time I cannot
3. RUNNING away – most if not all of them leave. In my case, H is emotionally gone, he has his little “bachelor pad” in our living room, but most will get a place, move in with OP, etc.
4. Blaming – they all seem to blame the spouse and project their guilt as blame before they come around to doing the internal work and finding the issues are within themselves.
5. Reconnecting with their past in some way, whether through old flames, old friends, old activities, old geographical locations, etc.
6. Depression – it seems to be always present, but may be short lived – and manifests itself as medicating behaviors – OP, drugs, alcohol, speed (racing), running, etc.
Secondly, the actions:
In WAS-world, it’s easier to get along with focusing on H/W a little more. Detachment is still important, but being that it will be a relatively short time, you can do things like let him catch you wearing cute stockings and going out. In MLC, you must move on as if your spouse is gone and buried, because if you spend any time thinking about them, you will go insane. It will be such a long time that you’ll literally lose all your feelings and “move on” if you do things to get their attention.
In both worlds, it’s important to GAL, set goals, take care of yourself, etc. Those changes should be permanent and for you. However, in MLC world, it’s important to consider going dark/dim much earlier because, let’s face it, the MLCer needs SPACE and the more you’re in their face, the more they run AND the more crazy you become. Detachment must happen in a bit of a different way in this MLC world. That’s because in order for you to be able to have any feelings for your MLCer in the future, you need to protect your fragile feelings now. Just like your MLCer does, you need to wrap them up carefully, put them in bubble wrap and save them in a nice, pretty box for the rainy day that they return on. You need to detach, go dim or dark or NC and just GAL right away. They are so busy blaming you that every single thing you do in the beginning will be used as ammunition against them and nothing you do right will be noticed or appreciated at all. A WAS will notice, maybe keep it to themselves, but they will notice. This is because MLCers are not rational human beings. A WAS IS a rational human being – but be careful of this caveat… a WAS that is not in an emotionally bonded A is a rational human being. The second you add the addiction of an emotionally bonded A, the bets are off and you will be under a similar microscope to the one the MLCer uses.
In MLC-ville, you have to be prepared for total crazy, looniness. It’s true. My H told me he didn’t think I was moral b/c when I was a teen, I jumped out of second floor windows to sneak on buses to NYC to get high with friends. I mean, crazy, totally paranoid, made up fantasies. He also told his friends and family he was afraid of me. I’m 5’2” and he’s 6’2” and a third degree black belt. He told them I cut myself, but neglected to mention that it was 23 years ago, for about a week, all my friends were doing it, I was a young teen, and it was 11 years before I met him. He has these weird fantasies and ANGER and spewing.
In WAS, you have rationalization for their feelings that may be from left field, but the anger and spewing and monster behaviors are just not the same. And again, you can rationalize with a WAS, but not a MLCer. When I told my H I never jumped from any windows, he blew his stack. This is a man who NEVER yelled at me, who suddenly yelled until I thought he’d blow a blood vessel in his temple. It was scary, crazy and just an alien totally.
In WAS, we speak of doing a 180 as if it’s a temporary thing to get their attention, in MLC, the 180 must be a true change in lifestyle and personality and not a tactic. I agree, all changes should be permanent, but ie, Michele speaks in her book of the woman who goes in and bangs a table when her H was yelling and that was a 180. That wouldn’t work in MLC.
Now, many behaviors are the same. You should all detach, GAL, take care of yourself, set goals, etc. However, goals even can be more WAS focused but not MLC focused.
Marked...
I am going to admitt to 2 things. One of whcih I have never tried to cover up and have admitted to before several times in fact.
1) I did not read your entire post.
2) I was a WAS in my first marriage.
I will say the two are entirely different.
I was rational. Perhaps if my 1st wife had discovered DBing? And stuck to the changes that were important to me?
Was I a saint? Hardly...but neither was I a monster.
I disagree with some of your...thoughts.
Ok Having read your entire post...
My dander got up far too quickly after taking one thing out of context...that the changes in a WAS aren't permenant...I read further and saw that you suggested that they should be.
OK, thank you for that.
You are right.
i have been thinking about this a LOT. what is the difference and how is the approach diff't? i saw some threads where folks distinguished b/w the two but more recently, it seems like most are saying it doesn't matter.
Glad you got your dander back down, Jack.
I didn't realize you were a WAS, that must have colored your sitch now. Glad you learned from your past, mistake or not.
Hope I get some more comments. I just got so many "it doesn't matter what he is, the approach is the same" comments when I was new to MLC that I thought perhaps some clarity would be good and wanted to make sure I was not incorrect in assuming.
Not all WAS's are WS's. Not all MLCers are WS's but most end up there it seems.
I think the commonality you are seeing is in dealing with the affair aspect.
MH - I agree in principal with your views; however, not all MLCer will spew venom. Some may appear as a WAS but are really MLC. In my sitch I am dealing with a W who missed "growing up" and now feels the need to find out what she missed. So I guess the nastiness that I have read, the aggressive behaviors, etc associated with most MLCer is not always present. I would also like to point out that EVERY sitch is really different. I totally agree that detachment, etc are key regardless of was oir mlcer.
Just my 2 cents
God Bless
Eric
MH,
You have some good points there. I agree not all MLC'ers are the same. My MLC had angry issues. I don't know if you have read the book "Men In Midlife Crisis" by Jim Conway, my ex fits it to a tee!!! All the way back to where he never felt the love of his Mother & his Dad didn't know how to show him love. I don't know about a WAS vs MLC, I've only dealt with MLC. I didn't know it then but I saw my ex in MLC 2 years before he met ow & if she had not come along & pursued him, I know without a doubt he would still be here. He just happened to get involved with a sociopath.
Hang in there, you are doing great! Sorry I just don't have answers for you, every sitch is different but also there are so many that are similar.
(((HUGS)))
M&H - I've stopped analyzing if my H is WAS or MLC. As you said, especially when there is a OP, it doesn't make much difference. All you can do is to concentrate on you...YOU are your strongest weapon. If you do the work on yourself and become the best you can be that may play a big role in them coming back. And if they don't their loss...
BIG loss Mila, big loss.
MH - I agree in principal with your views; however, not all MLCer will spew venom. Some may appear as a WAS but are really MLC. In my sitch I am dealing with a W who missed "growing up" and now feels the need to find out what she missed. So I guess the nastiness that I have read, the aggressive behaviors, etc associated with most MLCer is not always present. I would also like to point out that EVERY sitch is really different. I totally agree that detachment, etc are key regardless of was oir mlcer.
Just my 2 cents
God Bless
Eric
Hey Eric .. this is my sitch too. H has never been nasty - said lots of hurtful things, right out of the MLC handbook - but never in a mean or nasty way. I think he could have been a WAS a few years ago, but when he was still reasonable and rationale he knew that it wasn't what he really wanted, and he worked hard to try and make us work (mind you he didn't find a way to communicate all of this and didn't agree to MC the few times I did suggest it, but I digress...). Then the MLC hit, and I'm thinking there were signs as far back as 3 years, and now leaving "is his only option for finding happiness" and yada yada yada.
PEI
I originally thought my W was a WAW but after I put her out of the house she went went absolutely crazy. I knew then that it was something else and after looking back on events before the bomb I realized the MLC started 2 years prior, shortly after her 20 yr High School reunion.
She saw her first "true love" boyfriend and that is when she started on the long slippery slope down into MLC. He was happily married but still the thoughts of a life with him ran through her head. (She shared this with me early on).
WAW or MLC, I think my approach is the same, which is consistency in how I treat her.
Hey, anyone up for a margarita?
I'll do the shaking if you all want to do the drinking.
BYOS - bring your own salt. I'm out.
Margarita??? I'm ready! I got salt too!
I have salt, too. Count me in!
Just give me the bottle...the one with worm at the bottom!!!
Umm yummy salt and lime. Love it.
Who's up for some homemade salsa and guacamole with freshly fried chips?
Count me in!!! I'm so ready!!!
H was out until very early this morning since Sat afternoon. I brought him and the kids breakfast and coffee before church today and then went to a lunch afterwards. H accepted the food and seemed to appreciate it. I believe he is open to my kindnesses again, which is a new thing for him since this began.
He noticed my new licenseplate which was his mother's before it was mine. She got it when she was divorced from his dad, who was an alcoholic and abusive. He cheated on her, married OW, which lasted for a year. He cheated on OW with a second OW, married her, and if I remember correctly, went back to first OW to cheat on second OW. He died of lung cancer, leaving the second OW as a widow. She's very sweet and really loved him and H's mother forgave her. However, like father like son, huh? H's mother has been M three times and the third time was the charm for her. (second was a M of convenience. Her best friend wanted kids and she needed someone to raise them, so they agreed to M only to have a stable unit until one of them found their "soul mate" - and MIL did and they D, and she remarried third time, being happy today.) H thinks he will follow in her footsteps, but really, I think he's following in his dad's more. MIL was honest with her second H and they never were in love. Anyway, just a bit of journaling to remember the weird things that went on in his family.
I'm feeling very good about everything lately. I got my taxes filed, am working on my finances, really trying to take the bull by the horns. It's hard, I'm still in avoidance of the icky stuff I don't want to have to deal with... and today in church, the sermon was on avoiding conflict and he mentioned how we tend to put our heads in the sand. Sounds so familiar. LOL.
Howe everyone had a wonderful, GAL filled weekend.
Hi M&H
It seems I missed out on margarita's this weekend!!!
Glad you had a good one and are feeling good!
Hey all, I haven't been posting much. I'm reading a lot of threads, but just really reading books, working on the house, GALing and preparing for the twins to leave us and go see their Mom for the summer.
One thing I've been thinking through is that I told my H many things I now regret, such as telling him he's a cheater. He asked me what my definition of a cheater is, and I told him someone who cheated multiple times. That is a definition, but now looking back on it, the last time he cheated on me, I'm more and more sure was a transition he was going through and he didn't handle it well.
He thinks so highly of my opinions that I'm worried that with his low self esteem, he may never think he's good enough to come back to me. Right now, he has no respect for me. But as he progresses through the tunnel, I'm pretty certain I will be back up on the pedestal since I've never done anything concrete to be pulled off of it. (Not that I want to be up there, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it) That will mean he will have the normal guilt a MLCer has, but in addition, the words I told him that will make him feel more worthless and hopeless.
Expanding on my thoughts, and journaling them since many of you may be thinking or have thought the same things.
H really looked up to me and my knowledge on any subject. When I'm presented with a problem, I learn everything I can about it. I must be supporting a small family at Borders right now with all the books I'm buying. LOL
H is easily swayed. (as evidenced by the reason he finally broke with me and went to OW - he asked his best friend/best man when they noticed he was becoming different and they told him 2 years, and he came back and repeated it to me. I haven't loved you for two years, see, D and E both agreed it has been that long, they noticed it before I noticed it in myself.)
I have told H he's a cheater. He's very disturbed by this, he said to me in a half thinking to himself half thinking outloud sort of way "if the M was meant to be, I wouldn't have cheated on you" as if the M itself was a protection against cheating.
He also said he hadn't been able to be as intimate with me for a while since he never forgave himself of the first A. (We were having problems with intimacy being frequent enough, but I really attributed that to me being tired and very overweight - thus not attractive to him and not feeling very sexy myself...)
You see, he's rationalizing his choices and actions by making me take the blame. Or sometimes it's not even me but some weird, disconnected "fate" thing that is to blame.
I mention this because I am formulating something in my head and wanted background for you all to review with me for soundness...
Basically, I think I need to plant seeds in his head, and I don't know yet how or what or why I will/should be doing regarding this. I just know that he's being swayed by OW and friends and he's just not strong enough emotionally to fight them. I don't want to play tug of war with him, I don't want to hurt him. I'm in a place of a lot of compassion and love and understanding for him right now. He's hurting and it hurts me that he's getting bad advice from people that don't know enough about the whole story and are too self-serving to be advising correctly.
I want to interject truth to him, such as he can come back, there is a chance to repair, there is a way to rebuild love, etc. I don't want him to be entirely without hope. And I want him to realize that sometimes people make mistakes and they can be forgiven.
Thoughts? I'm not talking about having a R talk, I'm talking about fitting little bits and pieces over the next months, when they fit into a natural conversation, just throwing little things in that will help pave the way home and to forgiveness for him.
I'm talking about fitting little bits and pieces over the next months, when they fit into a natural conversation, just throwing little things in that will help pave the way home and to forgiveness for him.
Not a bad idea the way you described it right there. Except for the selfish pave his way home part. The help him forgive himself part...truely selfless though...nice.
I struggled with that feeling as well. Thanks Jack. I was thinking that friends are trying to see him not hurt - voila, they're telling him to leave me. OF COURSE OW is telling him that. He's being swayed, and I want to let him see that it's not the only option, but then I felt guilty for trying to convince (control) him towards me and our M... darn that old Catholic guilt. LOL. Not supposed to want to win at anything because that means someone else has to lose.
I really do feel so badly right now. He is hurting so much and I've come a long past my own hurt, and now see the pain in his eyes. It's strange because if you asked if I am in love with H, I'd say no. If you asked if I love him like I used to or somewhat like that - I'd still say no. I love him differently now. It's more like I see that he's so lost and truly alone (even though he's with OW - his "soul mate" and such) - he's guilty and in pain. I don't want him to hurt, I wish I could say something to make him stop hurting. That's not going to happen... he has to do it himself. I know now how parents feel watching their children fail and make wrong choices. You have to let them do it, and you know it intellectually but it still hurts to watch them go through it.
I found an old journal from the last time H cheated and I DB. I had put a few quotes on the front cover that I thought I'd post here. Just fun stuff.
"If you're going through hell, keep going." Winston Churchill
"I know God wouldn't give me anything I couldn't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much." Mother Theresa
I know God wouldn't give me anything I couldn't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much." Mother Theresa
Love this one!
I was going through old emails looking for something and found this one from H dated 4/6. At the time, I was being given advice to avoid talking to him on his terms and set the time and place myself... which ticked him off and made him take the fuse out of my car and take me hostage during lunch to talk to me.
I may have given you the wrong impression with what I said this morning. Allow me to clarify.
If you actually believe that you and I are where we are today because of some recent “outside influence”, then you are completely naive (I don’t mean that in a negative way) as to what’s been going on in our marriage over the past several years and how I feel about it and you. If you continue to dodge me and the talk I seriously need to have with you so you can understand why we are where we are, then what choice do I have?
Our marriage issues are between YOU AND ME alone, it’s OUR MARRIAGE! OW is completely innocent in all of this and does not deserve your harassment. She’s a good person. Her and OWH have their own issues to work out, as do we, and any effort by you towards her or him, or vice versa, is effort taken away from the core problems which reside solely in our respective marriages.
I was just re-reading it and remembering the emotion behind it for both of us. I had been hit with no time to process and he wanted to just tell me it's over and it's up to me to accept it, in a nutshell, and that there was nothing I could do about it... because he didn't love me and therefore never would again. He certainly did not ever tell me anything about why we were where we were or anything of the sort.
It's so hard seeing this to imagine that he will ever come back out of it. I know he will, one day, but this is not my H. (BTW - I called to expose to her H and I wouldn't call it harassment, it was OW who called and emailed me several times getting more and more hysterical... I said nothing further to her or him, so if anyone was harassing, it was her. But she's sweet and innocent, isn't she? LOL)
It helps to remember that he's in a fog.
Getting ready for the summer alone. I was looking forward to it, but now I'm starting to dread it - so much work and doing it all alone. It will feel good to finally have it done, though.
M&H - There is one thing with our Hs that I just have a hard time understanding.... They bring up NOW that they were unhappy before the affair. Why not say something before they start the affair? If they were so unhappy before, why didn't they say anything, why didn't they try to work on what the problem was, didn't we deserve that much? Or if it was that bad, why didn't they leave to be on their own for a while? Instead they ran into the arms of another woman rewriting marriage history as they go. MLC or not...they had a choice...And your H & mine did this 2x to us...there is something broken in these man...could they ever change?
Mila,
Who is to say they didn't?
I know in retrospect my wife did. Many times in fact and I also told her my complaints. However all we did was tell the other one our complaints without adjusting or addressing the other persons issues.
But nothing puts an excalmation point on a sentence like fukcing someone else. : )
And your H & mine did this 2x to us...
Mine, too, Mila. And I have the same questions as well. Of course they should have let us know what they were unhappy about! The one time I did ask my H why he hadn't, he said "because I didn't think it could be fixed." He didn't tell me what "it" was, so I don't know whether it was something in him, or something in me. If the latter, he really had no right to judge whether it could be fixed or not, but I didn't pursue it. I suppose it doesn't really matter at this point, anyway, since he is gone, and I'm working on what I want to work on, whether it's "it" or not.
Hi there,
I know my husband and I fell into a rut - a really big rut - each one of us would talk about how we felt - we'd agree to do something about it and then our best intentions would fall by the wayside as 'real life' kicked in.
We allowed the 'c' word to slip into our marriage (and by that I mean complacency).....the last year of our marriage was spent entrenched in positions whereby each of us believed we had 'changed and moved and bent enought' to try and accomodate the others' wishes and my husband definitley felt that he ahd bent enough and was at breaking point. Our marriage just wasn't worth it anymore.
I have to say that our marriage was passionate and expressive and full of love and energy - until the last 9 months where he couldn't even look at me - we still did all the soppy stuff (cards, flowers, sex texts, overnights in hotels when we could.....)
My husband would speak in riddles and forget conversations which contributed to my exasperation with him - I understand now it's MLC but at the time I was floundering and didn't understand what was happeneing.
I tried several, what I now know as 180's, in the last 3 months we lived together in an effort to become the person he said I wasn't anymore.
My husband gave me enough clues in retrospect and these are the ones I have searched out, tried to understand the 'why' question in my dark hours and decided to work on. I am not excusing his behaviour - he had choices and he made the wrong ones in my view but what's done is done, I cannot waste anymore of my energy on the 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' type analysis.
All I can do is shape my future from the embers of my past, keeping loving him, keep detached and give myslef a clear head to make choices in my future.
((hugs))
lalxx
Absolutely true, Mila... why don't they mention it.
Jack, no, he didn't in my case. He never said anything. I noticed he was withdrawing and I pursued, which caused him to withdraw more, and ultimately I chose the wrong path and became angry at his withdrawal rather than being a good friend and wife, and being compassionate, patient and understanding, I pushed him away. However, to throw away 12 years on 6 months of problems is insane, to my mind.
Twink, don't you just want to scream! How will you know if you don't let ME KNOW? So crazy they are.
lalxx - that sounds familiar. We had such a great marriage, so much love and passion and friendship and he just withdrew and it was a riddle that I didn't pay enough attention to in time, so by the time I figured it out, it was too late.
Hi M&H,
I agree, by the time I figured out something was wrong it was too late! But again, the ow came along, if she had not come along mlc or not, we would still be together. There is no doubt in my mind about that one! We would have worked it out if a 2nd party had not been in the picture & pushing him to get D.
I asked my H the WHY, why didn't you tell me that you were unhappy, why didn't you tell me before the affair that we need to fix such and such or you will leave? His reply: "I don't give ultimatums"...
I asked my H the WHY, why didn't you tell me that you were unhappy, why didn't you tell me before the affair that we need to fix such and such or you will leave? His reply: "I don't give ultimatums"...
Heard it before, and we'll hear it again when somebody else posts it. It's about not taking ownership for their role in the poor communications that lead to marital problems let alone taking ownership for the affair which they did all by themselves.
Stop pursuing this avenue. You aren't going to get any answers that way.
The affair made your H feel good, and that's all that mattered when he got involved in the thing. The affair is not in any way your fault.
The poor communications were probably partly your fault, but look at what your H is telling you : you should have read my mind.
You can't read minds, he can't read minds, and only people who fool themselves believe they can read minds.
TH - Very well said...of course you are right...mind reading...poor communication....it's just mind boggling because all of the valid "problems" that he brought up after the affair were quite easily fixable if both partners wanted to. In addition he is of course inventing many "problems" that never existed before.
And the "ultimatum" conversation happened soon after the bomb...I don't even go there anymore....
Before I start, let me say that I KNOW this means nothing, so no kindly jabs, OK? LOL
Just journaling: H has been nice these last few days, we've been fooling around on emails and being friendly with each other.
I just miss my friend so much, it's nice to know he's in there somewhere, ya know?
M&H - happy that you are having few better days with H...I know that you know better then to read to much into it at this stage. The old him is in there somewhere...and that's good to know, right?
Oh, yeah, Mila. Thanks for stopping by today. I can see you're really feeling down, and if you could see things from the outside, you'd feel a bit better. I'm so sorry for what he's putting you through.
I know it means nothing, but knowing my old H is in there somewhere does give a bit of hope. Maybe 1/2 of 1% of a chance, but something.
You are right M&H, not one of my best days, but it's OK, tomorrow will be better
.
Hold on to that hope...I think that the odds are way more then 1%
Question for (or about) Snodderly...
I know she's been around since 2000 and her H was in MLC for 6 years??? (May have that wrong) - they were D by the time he came through...
She had said that when he came through, she would post those things she learned from him.
Did she do that? And if so, can someone point me to that thread?
I'm interested to hear what happened in the end. You get bits and pieces throughout the forum and it'd be nice to put it all together, ya know? LOL
Thanks.
Yes, I have been here since January 2000. Yes, I am very much divorced and he has never come through to the other side. He is one of those that is committed to remaining stuck. He's had some good days, but he's still very much a teenager and quite frankly never grew up and learned what was important in the severe crisis mode.
What happened in the end? It is still a work in progress for him. Before you ask....no I would never consider taking him back. I wrote about him quite a bit back in 2005, right after my bil was tragically killed. Rip Van Winkle's Awakening will shed some light on what I had to deal with. I haven't updated Rip's story in quite a while because there isn't anything new to report and I have very little contact w/him these days. I've moved on...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...=186#Post423755Bottom line...I'm divorced and quite happy w/my life. My story was not the type of success story most want to hear, but in the end, I was a survivor and that is a success story in and of itself after what I went through.
And, might I add! Snodderly gives excellent advice!!!
Thanks Snodderly. I wasn't looking for what most would term a happy ending. I think your ending is just perfect for you... I was just re-reading an old thread where you mentioned you thought your XH was coming through and wondered what happened when he finally made it.
You're an amazing, knowledgeable and giving woman - you've put so much into touching so many stranger's lives - and I bet he'd be really po'd to finally really realize he lost you b/c he was an idiot... probably good for him that he stays stuck. LOL
You're an amazing, knowledgeable and giving woman - you've put so much into touching so many stranger's lives - and I bet he'd be really po'd to finally really realize he lost you b/c he was an idiot... probably good for him that he stays stuck. LOL
Well said & I totally agree!!!
Hi M and H,
Hope today is a better day for you. I think all MLC spouses do the "but I've been unhappy for so long....". Its amazing to me how much of an ogre I was to my husband for the past 10 years - at least according to him - in an attempt to justify his affair. Since we aren't in the fog and remember real life, know that our marriages were not the minefields they make them out to be. We just have to hope they grow up enough to realize how ridiculous they sound. And perhaps remember what WAS good between us. Perhaps that is where your H is at the moment and that's why he's acting more 'normal'.
And yes, Snodderly and her advice is priceless!
M&H,
Just wanted to say, have a great Friday! Hope your weekend is as well.
Thanks everyone for coming here to say hello.
You know, nlt, I've made a similar comment that if I had known, he would not have hit MLC. Who really knows? You can't say that, it may be inevitable like some say and if we were more understanding and intuitive, it may have been milder or not happened. Logically, I believe that I could have helped him avoid this, but remember, MLC is NOT logical.
Boy Timeheals, you really nailed it there. You're right, nothing mattered to my H other than HOW OW made him feel. And there was nothing I could have done to do the same for him, because he told me he was purposefully putting up walls so I couldn't get in. He really told me that, which looking back - now means to me that he shut me out in order to facilitate the affair.
Forever, I don't think my marriage was bad at all, we were really best friends, but we ignored each other's needs. That's the worst of it, excepting those very few times where I lost my temper and said mean things - I did tell H to f off twice. Two times in 12 years, but he's right, it was more than too much... Again, looking back, I realize I was hurt and really lost and confused about his behavior and he wasn't opening up to let me in, but that was during the beginning rumblings of MLC... he wasn't about to open up to me. They definitely do find ways to make the A seem OK to them, that's for sure.
Thanks SA, I'm going to have a great weekend, I hope you do, too.
Hi MH,
Your so right, I saw his mlc early on but didn't realize at the time that is what it was, but if I had known about him meeting this ow on the scuba diving trip then we could have gone for c right then. It's all in the past now & I'm letting it go & giving it to God, He has to take care of it all!!
Forever, I heard that remark too "I've been unhappy for years" when all this first happened he said so many things that other people have said their mlcer's have said, it was amazing to me! He told me of things that I did that didn't make sense at all & all the stuff he told me that was wrong in our marriage, in his eyes, was stuff that could be fix so easy plus it was not a big enough deal to get a divorce over, in fact it was petty stuff! But again, I'm sure it was his way of dealing with his involvement with ow.
Hey all.
I keep getting betterer and betterer. LOL
Smiling, PMA UP UP UP, happy and moving on.
My lovers, my best friend, my favorite man outside of my father is mentally ill.
He told me he could not go to see his mother with me and the kids yesterday b/c he had plans for boy scouts... and then showed up for 20 min visit (it's a 40 min drive each way) This is the third time he's done something like this (driving to see my mom on Mother's day in the next state and then when he found we weren't home, leaving to go back home rather than wait for us) It's all so bizarre. I had bought dinner for everyone but him and so when he came, I split my sandwich with him.
Anyway, I am still feeling hurt for him. I am so sorry he's in pain and choosing this unhealthy way to handle it. He's shut me out entirely because he needs to rationalize in his own head the fact that he is cheating on me. Somewhere deep inside, he remembers he loves me and we are best friends and that we were so close - until he put up his walls. She is a band aid, she is not even close to being as good as me, and she is, quite frankly, also a bit sick in the head. I feel badly for her as well, and I've forgiven both H and OW. (even though he told everyone I was mentally ill, that just was projection and I'm actually one of the most sane, put together, and mentally stable people I know... so, time to get myself back again - he ACTUALLY told people how religious I am and then said I was suicidal... how does that fit?)
Anyway, three months is long enough to grieve over the loss of my marriage. When he is ready to come back, I'll be here. I'm still standing, and I know it will all work out in the end. However, as of today, I am moving forward and not looking back.
I moving on with my life and feeling very very happy about it.
I just got off the phone with the secretary of the biology dept at my school. I stopped attending 5 years ago when my H's kids came to live with us in that emergency DSS situation... and I focused on them. I have three classes to finish and I'll have my Biology and Physics degree with a Chemistry minor.
I'm seriously thinking of going to take some psychology courses and explore marriage counseling, though. Who knows, I was going to get into some sort of medical field... it may take that path.
In the short run, I took up painting and music again, took care of myself physically, lost 40 pounds (still more to go, but doing well), got a hair cut, began wearing makeup again, tanning, and going to the gym. I began to make new friends and read as much as I could on the subject... and get a life.
Now, I'm ready to implement the beginning stages of the most radical remaking of my life. I've done the shallow, easy stuff, now I'm about to begin the deep, hard, long term "put the sheet over the statue while the Sculptor and His trainee begins to remake the masterpiece" stuff.
I'm absolutely so happy and looking forward to the beginning of my new life.
I've written down a list of deferred maintenance from my house and started already crossing things off. Things H said he'd take care of years ago... my new mantra is if I want it done, learn how to do it and do it yourself.
My FIL is helping me tremendously as he does a lot of this kind of household maintenance stuff.
Bravo!!! You go girl!!!
((((HUGS))))
M&H - you sound so good and strong...is it in the air? I'm feeling pretty empowered and ready to go as well.
Keep doing what you doing (((hugs)))
Forever -
I think all MLC spouses do the "but I've been unhappy for so long....". Its amazing to me how much of an ogre I was to my husband for the past 10 years - at least according to him - in an attempt to justify his affair
OMGosh...these words came out of my H's mouth yesterday...including the 10 years...it keeps growing...When the bomb came it was "in the past year"...month later I heard "2 years"...then "7years" and now it's "10 years".....
M&H
Love it...love it all!!! Lead the way girl!
Oh my gosh, ladies! My H started out with saying he didn't realize how unhappy he'd been in the last 2 months before the bomb and he worked it upwards from there and the last latest count I heard was for 12 years.
They really do read out of the same playbook!
M&H - You're moving in the right direction! You go, Girl!!!
Anyway, I am still feeling hurt for him. I am so sorry he's in pain and choosing this unhealthy way to handle it. He's shut me out entirely because he needs to rationalize in his own head the fact that he is cheating on me. Somewhere deep inside, he remembers he loves me and we are best friends and that we were so close - until he put up his walls. She is a band aid, she is not even close to being as good as me, and she is, quite frankly, also a bit sick in the head.
Oh gosh, I remember those thoughts so well. My H's ow D'd her H and got gobs of money. She spent a LOT of it imitating the life my H and I had built together. She bought a place with more acres than I have, she built an indoor arena bigger than mine, she had my H there doing her blueprints and it is almost exactly the same design, she mimicked so much of MY life. I know that imitation is a form of flattery....hahaha!! But ya know what? my H got bored, and he got tired of the work, and that's something that ow didn't know about him. He's a bit like a butterfly that doesn't stay doing the same for very long.
MH, one little thing I suggest and maybe it's just something that I zone in on because words I choose have seemed to be a big deal with my H. Be careful about the difference between moving on vs moving forward. I always chose to move forward with my life while leaving room for my H to choose to come with me.
M&H,
I have to agree, the ending was absolutely perfect for me. I dealth w/crisis after crisis throughout the 25 years I was married to him. He experienced one around his mid 20's, 30's and then the 40's. The last one just took him over the edge. There is a history of mental illness on his mother's side of the family and I suspect he may have had clinical depression throughout his life, starting as a young child and growing up. It's funny now, but I always had something niggling me in the back of mind that one day he would bolt just as he did. I could never put my finger on it, but something was off kilter w/him. Now, I have a better understanding of how childhood issues can a huge role in later life.
Our marriage was a good one, definitely not over the moon, but it was a good one. We traveled, we purchased a home, drove nice cars and pretty much did whatever we wanted. Today, I still have all of that and more. I now have peace of mind, know where my money is going and just knowing that I don't have to account to anyone but the man upstairs.
My xh will never admit he screwed up on the last trip to alienville. Now, he's had absolutely no problem in apologizing for his screw ups in his 20's and 30's, but he's not gotten to the 40's annd 50's yet. By that time, I'll be in a motorized rocking chair watching the world go by.
Life will be good for you again...when you are ready to move forward and live your life to the fullest....you, too, are a survivor!
Thanks DG!
WCW, I'm changing to move forward immediately. I like that and I will be more careful in the future.
Snodderly, I have been dealing with some questions lately about something you touched upon above... I don't know if my H is capable of being faithful. In fact, I'm starting to look back at his life from teenage hood on and it seems unlikely. He may be telling OW now that he loves her, she's his soul mate (yeah, we all know that line... and the brain chemicals that contribute to those feelings, at least temporarily) He and I were very, very good together - best friends, good lovers, 99% common interests, etc. Yet, every single time we had minor issues, he would run to an OW... and he did the same in his first M.
Thanks CW.
Mila, I'm so ready to see you MOVE FORWARD - let's go! So excited to see you getting your life together and the ability to make a living w/o H, should it ever come to that. (hope it doesn't)
What were his parents like? Did his father do something similiar to what you described? Did he run to someone else w/his problems when the going got to tough?
Your h could be addicted to those "hormones" that trigger the "feel good" feeling. The rush may be what he's looking for in life. There are some out there that just have to have that rush in all aspects of their lives in order to live.
What about you? How are you holding up through all of this?
Oh, I'm fine, and I'll be fine once the kids are gone for the summer. It's mostly them I'm worried about right now. Their mom just moved half way across the country and suddenly, their dad goes into MLC... and they feel very abandoned. I'm doing my best and probably overcompensating, but I know they appreciate it.
Today is father's day, and I invited my dad to go fishing like we did when I was little. My H somehow thought I meant for him to go with us and suddenly, it was a family day. Which is fine and I'm glad it turned out good. However, when I woke him this morning to go, he was aggravated, said that he didn't know what was going on. (DUH, you disappear for days on end and never tell us how we can reach you - no cell phone - no idea where you are, of COURSE you don't know what's going on - did you expect me to wait up until 4 am when you stroll in to fill you in on the details?)
Anyway, he showed up and we fished for an hour. I had a class to go to so I took off, and came home from church to find the kids had been ditched with the usual excuse - "I'm going to go hang with friends." So, I told them I'd take a nap since I'm just plain exhausted and then we'll go do something fun.
Anyway, H's dad was an alcoholic. His mom D him for cheating. However, H does not know that-or at least she never told him that. I don't think he ever knew that. He just thought his dad was not around and was an alcoholic, so she D him for that. It was the cheating. He cheated on her with OW#1 (that we know of), and then M the OW. He cheated on OW and that M lasted a year or two, I forget exactly, but very short. He cheated on OW#1 with OW#2, then M OW#2 - and lo and behold, guess what? Cheated on OW#2 WITH OW#1. However, OW#2 and he worked it out and stayed together until he died of lung cancer a few years ago.
Since H doesn't know this (I talked to the women - both MIL and OW#2, which is something H never bothered with) - I wondered if there was a genetic component to this.
However, H is not like his dad in most ways. He's very creative like his dad was, but he's sensitive, funny, and just a great, loving, kind man.
His Mom is a very lovely woman, H complains that she controls things too much, but I think she's just sweet and wants to make everyone happy... and that's why she is like she is. She just wants everyone to get along, and sometimes that is just not possible. She D his dad, M her best friend who gave her a platonic M just for the boys to have a dad to help raise them, and then met her "soul mate" and D the second H for the third, whom she is M to and very happy with to this day.
H has used this to explain what he's doing to his mom. That she found "true love" with her third M and therefore he is also heading down the same path. Never mind that her H#2 told her that if she ever found someone she could be romantically happy with, to let him know and he would step aside. And she never cheated on him... they were open about it from the start. H is more like his dad than his mom, but both histories are just not great in my mind.
Anyway, I think you may be able to see where his thoughts are a bit screwed up.
I really feel that there are two ways H can be faithful. #1 is me walking on eggshells for the rest of my life... not going to happen. #2 is he gets therapy...and that's what I've come to. I will accept him back only after he agrees and begins therapy.
My H's OW has no idea - she really thinks we had a bad marriage. I did warn her, but she thinks she can make him happy and I couldn't. Of course, never mind that she is also M and cheating on her H (and cheated on my H and her H with another guy at a party at least once)
Anyway, what a mess.
I miss my family where everyone is just plain normal. Very few divorces, my parents are the only ones really. And that was a mistake, as they've said multiple times. I wish my H's family had started out with MIL and FIL (Her third H) being the parents. I think my H would have wound up so much better and happier and more stable and secure in himself.
My H has very deep scars from feeling awkward in HS and like no girls wanted to date him. That's what OW represents to him. She was a high school crush. Although, he told me of his crushes and she was not included in them. And she's not his type, so I think it's a combination of he thought she was cute but never really thought much about her, but she became available to him during their recent high school reunion, and she made it clear she had no moral walls about cheating, so here we are. Replay at it's finest.
I'm looking forward to moving forward while H plays out this fantasy behind the scenes and the kids are gone for the summer. Already I've gotten more done around the house in the past month than he has in years. It will be great to get my life back in order.
I'm looking at this as a gift. During this time, I am growing, learning, fixing my finances and house, reconnecting with friends and making closer ties to family. And hopefully, H fixes what's wrong with him because I'd love to not have to say I had a failed M in my life.
I can understand now what your h is trying to figure out. He is truly trying to find the "kid" who had emotional scars inflicted upon him at a very early age. Your h is in many ways reliving the past, but this time, he is the one in the driver's seat, not his parents. If he should hit bottom and seek therapy, it will be a very long haul for him. He's got a lot of demons to deal w.
Yes, you have been given a gift in many ways and it's funny, but I said the same thing to my xh a very long time ago and still continue to look at it that way to this very day. Unfortunately, some of us will have a failed marriage in our lives, but you need to remember, you can only own 50% of the problems and from where I am sitting, you've been very supportive and compassionate to this man.
BTW, I'm glad you were able to spend some time w/your father today. I'm glad you got out of the house for a bit. As for your h, he's still in the land of Oz and will be for quite some time.
Enjoy your summer!
Thank you so much snodderly. Even writing it all out just now has helped me so much to both get more understanding and come to terms with the compassion you just spoke of. I truly love this man, but my love for him has changed through this. I know somewhere in me is the romantic love I always had for him, but now the love I have is what I can only describe as a Christian love. I feel sorry for him, I want to help him and I really want to see him become the wonderful man I know he can be. (I know everyone says you can't help them, but you can. Giving them space and loving from a distance, treating them kindly and moving forward with your life without bitterness - those are all loving actions that do DO help them, I'm convinced. If you do not give them these things - they will either run away or stay stuck, and therefore since you can negatively affect them, it only stands to reason that you can positively affect them also.)
Peace all. Gonna relax a little more and then take the kids out for some fun. You all do the same.
Oh, and happy father's day to all you great dads out there.
M&H - I have been thinking along the lines you are thinking. Maybe this was meant to be. We were together for so many years and maybe we were not growing in the ways that we needed to. Maybe we had to separate to give us both time to find/re-find ourselves and to learn from this experience and get ready for the next chapter of our lives. Be it together or separate. I still feel that we will be together...eventually....but I'm not waiting for it....I'm living my life and I will let God surprise me.
In the mean time I will treat H with compassion and try to understand that he is only human and that he is also in pain and struggling and making mistakes but that he is doing his best and can't do any better while in MLC.
Mila, I'm so ready to see you MOVE FORWARD - let's go!
Yes M&H lets go
Well, had a very, very, very good day. Read Laura Munson's book and somehow, although I find it pretentious on many levels, it really strengthened me in my view. It was like therapy. Honestly. I recommend it. It is a memoir and doesn't offer much help in the way of dealing with an MLC spouse, but it sure does do it's job in making you feel as if the view and tact you are taking is the correct one.(assuming you are putting yourself and your own growth and responsibility for your own happiness first)
We've had a great family day together. We topped it off with an award ceremony at the Young Marines (a youth group for under 18 marine hopefuls) where our little recruit got honors and Private First Class. Two awards out of four given, very cool.
We were going to go out as a family and hang tonight but instead are staying in, drinking, eating popcorn and about to watch The Road, a movie H and I have been wanting to see for some time.
Tonight is the night he's typically out with OW and I'm shocked he's here and hanging with us... but moreso, that he's hanging with a smile on his face and lightness in his heart. We're having a great time together. He's on his way to the store for butter now as we ran out for the popcorn, so I thought I'd journal while it's still fresh.
Very nice M&H...enjoy the good times!!!
Hi H&M,
I hope you had a great evening!!!
Stay strong!
The most wonderful evening in a long time. I am now making my own life and it's coming out perfectly.
Those glimpses are nice. Enjoy.
Those glimpses are nice. Enjoy.
M&H, I second this!
So happy that you had a great family night
hopefully more to come...
BTW - the kids left for their mom's today. They are all so fed up with H's actions towards them - or should I say abandonment of them. He's been around only occasionally since this all began. I've really done a lot of stepping things up to help cover both "positions" of parents. It's exhausting. I feel for those single moms out there.
H seemed genuinely sad to see them go, though. He's extremely tired. It was a 6 am flight, so we were up at 2:30 to get ready to get there. I drove them in his new car, had to buy gas, give them spending money, buy breakfast, snacks for the plane, and pay the tolls. H just doesn't think of these things. I literally on the way home had my heart stop. I haven't driven his car for so long, I forgot that he always runs on empty. I was about 1/8 of a tank past E. Lucky the reserve tank is bigger than on most cars.
Well, now H can spend all his time with OW and I can get moving forward with my life. No more worries about how the kids are taking it.
H was so drunk last night that he pulled out his secret phone in front of the kids. DSD took a picture of it to show me, because we had a running joke about it. H really thinks he's hidden all of this from them. He has no idea how his abandonment of them has affected them... I really think he believes he's been a good dad to them lately. They were just SO glad to get away from him and his antics so they can just be themselves again. And their mom's house is crazy, so for them to want to go there instead, with a stepdad who used to abuse them... that's saying something.