Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Goodfight MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:19 PM
My husband that suffers from depression left on Nov. 6th and moved in with his father and step-mother. He filed for a no-fault divorce in the middle of Jan. When I got the papers I called him a mess then calmed down waited a couple of hours and called back and told him I will give him what he wants and he had NO clue to what I was talking about. I said the divorce and he said he didn't want it and then changed the subject really quick!! He stopped taking his meds 3 weeks before he left and I had no clue! Thought he was just stressed due to work etc. He was snapping at me and the kids..little things and then all of a sudden left. Said it was the marriage creating his depression. His parents do not believe in depression so they agreed. We have been married 13yrs. and they weren't in our lives with his last episode so they have NO clue. He started to take his meds. at the end of Jan. and by the end of Feb. was calling and joking around. That lasted for 2 to 3 weeks then all of a sudden back to the angry husband! Oh, by the way his parents are pushing for the divorce. Here he admitted to me that he stopped taking the meds again saying he didn't need them and wasn't taking pills the rest of his life. At first I begged and pleaded for him to come home and then I stopped. I purchased Divorce Busting and trying very hard not to call or anything! This weekend coming he is finally getting his own place, which my counselor said from the beginning if he would just get out of their house and be on his own he will realize what he has done! She counseled him before for his depression but now he refuses any help at all! Me and my daughter go because we are a mess (she is 12yrs. old). My son from a previous marriage is also very bitter but he is 18 and I can't make him go. He claims he's ok but he's not. This is the only father he knows plus my in-laws and my husband don't bother with him at all since the separtation! These are people that claim I was the best thing for him (my husband) and that they loved all of us soooo much and not even a phone call to see how we are doing!!!! They know how financially hard it is on me and the kids and also know that I have no other family! Dad passed years ago and mom is sick with brain tumors!! Not only did he leave us but so did they! I love him so much and now I'm in a deep depression and don't know where to turn or what to do!! Then over his visit with our daughter on the weekend she came home very upset because he had my name (tatoo) removed. She wants him to come home so bad and I told her everything will be ok either way. I don't know why he had to do that or why he would do it! I understand that when depressed he is a very angry person and doesn't think clearly but this pushed me and her over the edge I think. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
_________________________
M 41
H 35
D 12
S 18
Separated 11/08
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:24 PM
Gypsy, this is awful!!! I don't think there is any hope that he will ever come to his senses!!! His step-mother is running the show!! I said it from the beginning, and everyone told me once he moves out of there which was 2 weeks ago yesterday he will realize!!! Well, at the hearing he didn't even go in, his step-mother did!!!! She gave me a look that could have killed me!! Then in the hearing his lawyer said to the judge and my lawyer that their finished!!! He doesn't want to see his daughter either!! When the judge asked for an explanation to why he doesn't want to see her his lawyer used some kind of legal babel, not having to give an explanation!!!

How could he do this to his own daughter??? I know that the step-mother had something to do with this mess from the beginning!!! Her and his father have been with him at every hearing!!! What man at his age takes them to handle or to be with him??? I'm such a mess that I didn't come into work again after the hearing and stayed on the couch all weekend!!!

I read the report that the counselor sent in and it said that our daughter was concerned with his mental stabilty and so on. I know that our daughter has been saying Daddy's not Daddy so now I don't know what to think!!! Don't know whether to think he is mad at our daughter or what the hell is going on!

Oh, also the report said that they wanted to know what Dr. prescribed the Zoloft for him and what Dr. told him he could stop taking it. So I don't know if they didn't want to admit it or what. I just don't understand any of this!!!

Any insight would be greatful!!! I'm losing all hope because of the parents being involved!! They are the type to just keep pushing the divorce and all of this and I know he thinks they love him and I know his father does but I also know that the step-mother doesn't!!! She is sooo controlling and only her daughters ever counted since the day I met her not any of my father-in-laws children!!!

My husband is the only one that speaks to them out of 4 children, plus one of her daughters doesn't allow her to control her so they butt heads all of the time!!

I just can't believe how much I'm hurting right now!! It's getting worse instead of better!!
_________________________
M 41
H 35
D 12
S 18
Separated 11/08
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:27 PM
I was doing good and detaching a little then it all blew up again! Like I told you before my h suffers from anger depression and he left me the meanest voice mail.

Our D13 was upset because he didn't go to her swim meet on Sat. He lied to her and told her he had somewhere else to be. So I got so angry for the first time in a long time and sent him a voice mail and asked him to please stop hurting her. She should come first in his life and that she was hurt. I was nice and calm when I left the message and just asked him to please stop hurting her, she doesn't deserve it. He could treat me like that but to please stop doing it to her.

His response was that he is going to tell her that he won't be at any more of her swim meets because he can't stand to be in the same room as I am in. And he also can't wait for the D to be over already. As he is saying this he was soooo cocky and mean.

Since the separation he has been off and on his meds and when he is on them he is nice and acts like himself. He has been off of them now since Nov. or Dec. I just can't believe he can be so mean, I have never seen him like this before in 14yrs.! I know he is drinking a lot! He also has been saying he is broke to everyone because of the child support that he pays and runs off and buys a brand new laptop and some fancy t.v. And me like a fool didn't turn in the co-pays for our D13 that he is suppose to pay 60% for because I believed him when he said he had to take a pay cut etc. and now it is too late I think to turn them in.

All of our friends and some of our family can't believe that he is acting like this at all. They use to say he loved me more than I loved him and he was the most kindest person. So when I got the message of course I cried and cried. I have been ignoring the comments that he makes to our D13 for over a month and not let him push my buttons so I call or text him crying or being upset and thought that I was doing a good job but I guess not.

Some of our friends are wondering because he doesn't bother with them anymore either if he is in a MLC besides the depression. Also, his grandfather passed away and instead of him calling me so I could sit down and tell the kids he tells D13 over the phone. He said he didn't want our daughter there and then I said well I would like to go for a few min. to pay my respects and he says "I don't think that would be a good idea". So I didn't go. I sent a platter and left a message for his step-mother and father saying how sorry I was for their loss.

Me and my S19 wanted to go because we all loved his grandfather but I think he didn't want any of us there because he was afraid someone might ask one of us a question about the D and he would get caught in his lies. See he talks to his real mother now after not speaking to her in 12yrs. and knows that his father would have a fit! And that is another reason I think he keeps D13 away from them now also. So she doesn't slip up or anything.

What do you think I should do from here? Could really use your advice! I know about getting healthy for myself etc. and detaching, but I'm also praying for him to get better. I really want this M saved somehow, someway!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:29 PM
Just writing down some of my thoughts.

My D13 and I were talking last night right before we went to bed and she made a comment about what my husband said, well asked me a question? She said "Mom, I don't know if it is good or bad?" I asked what hunny? And she said on Sunday when me and daddy were by ourselves he said if he was to come home he doesn't know if him and S19 could get along? Now remember my son moved out, but I guess my H knows that if he decides to come back home I would always take my son back.

And she also said that both of them, meaning the kids, push me around. Which they do! Since he has been gone they have taken such advantage of me, because they know that there is no man around to correct them.

What do you think? Is H finally realizing what he is missing or is he finally coming to his senses?
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:39 PM



Quote:
I said it from the beginning, and everyone told me once he moves out of there which was 2 weeks ago yesterday he will realize!!!


These things take time, and I have never heard of a MLCer suddenly doing ANYTHING, let alone snapping out of this because of a move out....

And if this is truly what you thought.....????

Take the time to read the MLC resources....

After that, it would be beneficial for you to stop putting all of your focus on what he is or isn't doing.

Until that time, you are wasting a lot of energy that could be put to a better use....
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:48 PM
Update. Me and H ended up being together on the 17th of March and we talked a little and one thing led to another. H was going to come to the house and get the water off of the pool but when he found out that my girlfriend was there we started joking around and he said he wouldn't come to the house since she was there. So as we were joking around he told me that his door wasn't locked. I asked him if he wanted me to come to his apartment and he said ya. That's how this whole thing started last Wednesday. Then as I was leaving we talked about maybe dating. H said Sundays aren't good for him anymore since his schedule changed at work so, the next day when I got home from work I texted him and asked him if he thought about what days or nights would be good for him and his response was no.

I asked why and he just said it wasn't a good idea. Now when I was leaving his apartment he said he loved me more than just the mother of his child and then when I asked why it wasn't a good idea he comes off with "the feelings aren't there."

Then I go and text him that I guess I was right that he had used me for sex. His response was whatever I got to go.

So then I wait a few hours thinking I'm DBing and tell him he was right and it wouldn't be a good idea after I saw him drinking booze after he ran out of beer. Told him that beer was one thing but that I couldn't put up with him drinking the hard stuff and I wasn't sure how I felt but I will stand. I don't thinks he knows what I meant by standing.

But made a big slip when I told him that our D13 and everyone else said that if he loved us he would be home but then again if he came home he would probably leave again. He responded again with "whatever already don't start with me please.

I waited for 2 days to pass and asked him if he was going to please take the water off the pool cover and he said when he had time. I haven't heard from him since then which was Sat.

Now he had time to do it because he dropped D13 off at the house on Sat. and I was upstairs and yelled to her and asked if daddy started getting the water off the cover (it takes 5 min. to start and finish it) and she said no.

So now I'm more confused than ever! Not all of my sitch is here because I don't know how to attach the link to my other thread. It has been almost 17 months and I'm so scared now that he isn't coming home. Is this normal behavior for a person going through a MLC?
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:52 PM


Goodfight,

First, are these posts from another thread? Just trying to follow the timeline a bit…

Secondly…

Mach is absolutely right.

These things take time…

A LOT of time…


Originally Posted By: Mach1

Take the time to read the MLC resources....

After that, it would be beneficial for you to stop putting all of your focus on what he is or isn't doing.

Until that time, you are wasting a lot of energy that could be put to a better use....


I agree completely.

The resources are filled with wonderful information.

It is imperative to take the focus off of your H.

I did not read one thing, other than what a mess you are, about you…

What you are doing, what do you want, where is your life going?

Regardless of what your H and others are doing…

I know it is hard to think of that stuff right now…

Eventually though…
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:53 PM
I know they do now Mach1. I was on newcomers for the past year so I wasn't sure if this was a MLC or just his regular depression. I know I'm wasting a lot of time and energy, but just can't stop thinking about this whole mess. It consumes me all day at work and where ever I am. All I do is think and think. I'm so depressed that I'm on my 4th antidepressant and lost over 25lbs that I couldn't afford to lose.

I wish I was as strong as alot of the people on this site! I was always told that I was a strong person and thought I was until this bomb hit. I feel so weak!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 03:55 PM
Hi cat,

Yes, they are from another thread. I don't know how to attach it. So the first post is my beginning and then the middle and the March one, when we together is just this past week.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 05:12 PM
Do you need links to the resources? I can post them on your thread if you would like. You have been around a while so maybe you have already found them? Let me know.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 05:28 PM
OK Good,

Hi.

Sorry your here yadda yadda yadda.

You are here.

If you keep posting on Newcomers you will be getting conflicting advice than what we advise here.

4 anti-depressions meds later and 25 lbs weight losse...and still think of it 24/7.

...

Are you Goodfight, becase you are married to this man? OR are you Goodfight, becasue you are Goodfight?

You are going to have to become you again, no one person should hold as much sway over another...and really HE doesn't, you just think he does.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 07:14 PM
I would greatly appreciate it OP if you could post the links to my thread.

Thanks
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 07:19 PM
JTB, I think it is a little of both, all I know is I just want to save my M and give it a goodfight!

There is on OW with my H though. That is where I'm confused. It seems most of MLC have other people in their lives. I know he has it posted on Facebook that he is looking to date, and also has told our D13 that he is lonely.

But I just wish I knew if he used me last Wed. He told me after words that he loved me more than just the mother of his child but then nothing! No more talk about dating, nothing. It was like he changed his mind totally.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 07:47 PM
Welcome to this board. Sorry you have to be here but this is a wonderful resource and you will "meet" great people here who understand your sich and want to give you support.

The resources.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436

This is the detach link:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go
1,2,3,4,5,6 but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once. Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight

But I just wish I knew if he used me last Wed. He told me after words that he loved me more than just the mother of his child but then nothing! No more talk about dating, nothing. It was like he changed his mind totally.


GF,

He may have used you, he may not have…

The truth is, what happened happened and he probably doesn’t even know why it did…

Whether that is something that will continue or not is up to you…

If you are uncertain of his intentions, and they really matter, then continuing that sort of contact might not be the wisest course of action.

People here have handled this very differently and there does not really seem to be a consensus because it is such a personal thing.

What were your motivations in all of it?

Did you do it to see where he was?

To prove that you still love him?

Because you thought it might bring him back?

Or because you wanted to share yourself with this person?
Posted By: SoCo Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 09:01 PM
You can be as strong as you THINK you are. Right now you don't sound like you think you are very strong. Something to think about, huh?
Posted By: Was2sad Re: MLC or not? - 03/26/10 09:06 PM
GF

Not a lot to add except best wishes for you to "survive" this crisis. That will be a fight for you. We want you to win that fight, for you, and for your kids.

As for your H and the life you expected together forever, no one can promise anything when MLC strikes. No one could have seen it coming, sort of. There do seem to be several common themes early in life, and when they finally raise their ugly head late in life - we all wish had seen it coming a long time ago, move to another country, something. But here you are and this is real. So you need to stay real.

When you two were together lately, he thought he knew what he was feeling. And almost immediately he thought he knew he was not. And he will. And he won't. So don't go looking for some sign of something you can hang on to, because he can't and you won't.

We are moving on to the subject of cake eating now. MLCers want it both ways. The want the normal parts of their life that produce ZERO stress, responsibility or obligation of any kind. They want all the irrisponsible benefits of not being normal and rebelling against everything they ever were.

When you two were intimate he was half way through Alice's looking glass - normal on one side and Mad Hatter on the other. When you asked about making plans to date it was a lot more threatening to him than you can imagine. He will do anything to avoid making a comittment he fears he won't keep, or one he fears will leave him hurt. He hurts enough already.

He is thinking about dating if he is not already dating.

That is part of cake eating. That is why some spouses stop being intimate with a MLCer. It is a risky lifestyle, not knowing the truth, and not knowing what their MLCer has been doing. MLCers lie. Sometimes they don't know it. Much of what they say is a lie.

Other spouses see intimacy with no strings or expectations as a risk worth chancing in an effort to maintain some normal contact with the MLCer, at an arms reach and almost at the beck and call of the MLCer. We don't have general opinions on cake eating, except that it is a fact of MLC and one you must learn to recognize if you are going to make informed decisions.

The only way you will survive is to know the rules and make the best informed decisions you can, based on your own feelings. Just protect yourself from the alien on the other side of MLC.

You are meeting some great resources here. There is a lot of information to absorb. Give yourself time, work on yourself. Give your H time. Make new friends here. Learn. Then help others that will certainly arrive. That is actually something we learn to do here and you will find that very healing as it begins to happen.

cool
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:02 AM
Thanks OP for the resources. Iv'e been on this site for almost a year and didn't know what was going on. I was in the Newcomers then. But from what I've been told it is a MLC.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:05 AM
Hi Cat

I wanted to be with H because I love him and it seemed to me that night that he was coming to his senses and loved me too.

I guess I had my hopes up way too high, thinking that would happen! I just thought with all this time he had that he wanted more and wanted his family back again.

I know I made a mistake because I felt like this in November when we were together for a few hours. I left feeling the same way. Very very sad and upset.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:09 AM
You are so right SC, I'm not strong at all. This is the man that begged me to marry him and just a week before all of this happened and he left, he was making future plans for us when the kids went off to college.

I never thought in a million years he would have done this to me and the kids. He did leave 1 1/2yrs. prior for a week when he had hit his depression but was only gone for 2 weeks and wanted to come back home. Said he made a big mistake by leaving and that he wanted us back.
Posted By: SoCo Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:11 AM
Um...I wasn't saying you are not strong. I was saying that you have to THINK you are strong. Because you are, but you have to think you are.....Make sense?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:22 AM
Was2Sad,

Did you go through a MLC or was it your S? It seems you know exactly what is going on. I wish I would have known this was a MLC in the beginning but I didn't. Thought it was just his depression and he would get help and come home.

Now I'm in such a deep depression, never was I this sad for this long. I'm having panic attacks that keep me from going out and GAL, I'm so down and out that I don't even want to do things around the house. Can't wait for the weekend to come so I don't have to work then our D13 is with H and all I do is cry because I'm all alone and thinking all of the time.

Do they go from loving you to hating you or how does this work? One minute he is fine and the next he makes no contact at all except to our D13.

If he wants to date someone then why not date your spouse? None of this is making sense to me right now

If H is hurting why won't he let me or someone help him? He knows I'm standing for our M. Do I agree with him and say that I think he is right for us not to date?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 01:25 AM
SC,

I'm not strong at all though. I'm a mess! I don't know what happened here to me. Thought and so did family and friends always consider me a strong person but I'm not anymore. I feel like I'm the weakest of them all.

When we were together and we were talking, I can't remember what he said but he said something to hurt me and then said don't cry. I told him I wasn't crying. And I was about to but I wasn't. Why would he want to make me cry? This is the man that said if he ever lost me he wouldn't know where to turn!
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 09:36 AM
Goodfight, before you can even begin to deal with your H you have to get control of the only person you can control, yourself. You can't help your H through this, he has to figure it out for himself. If your H is going through a MLC, even getting back on his meds consistantly for his depression will probably not bring him home. This is a journey he has to complete and trying to interrupt it will just add time to it.

You are trying to come at it like your H is the rational person he was before this started. He's not, and won't be for a long time. It's all about him right now and it doesn't matter who gets hurt as he plows through. Try not to take his spew personally, it's really not about you, you didn't cause this and you can't fix it. Your H is trying to outrun the pain and find happiness. He doesn't realize yet that happiness comes from within and that shedding all the external responsibility (you and kids)isn't going to make him happy. Again, he will have to figure it out himself. Telling him these things will not help and backfire by making him angry and push him farther away.

As far as your children are concerned right now, you're it. There is no one to back you up. You are the guide that will get them through this. They will be watching you closely to see how you handle all this and it will be a life lesson for them. It isn't fair or easy, but it's up to you to make it a positive one. Yes, it is life altering for all of you, but you have to dig down for the strength to pave the way that sees you all through.

Give your H what he wants. Back off, no contact unless absolutely necessary. If you have to contact your H about kids or finances, keep it brief, simple and non personal. If you're always present he won't have a chance to see what life is like without you.

Do not bring up your R. Let your H initiate any convos about that. Listen and validate what he's says by saying you understand he feels that way. Do not try to defend yourself or reason with him as you would make more progress by repeatedly banging your head against the wall. Validating doesn't mean you agree with him, it just means that you understand those are his feelings right now. He will rewrite your marital history to justify his actions. Do not try and set him straight, just validate.

During your H's journey you have a choice to make. You can either spin and let your H's antics continue to depress and bring you down or you can grab yourself by the bootstraps, pick yourself up, dust off and use this opportunity for yourself. Get a plan and course of action. Change those things that you don't like when you look into the mirror. Use this time to figure out what YOU want. Get to the place where you know that you will be better than OK no matter how your sitch turns out.

I know this is hard and you didn't ask for it, but it is your choice as to what you do with it. It can either defeat you or make you stronger. That is the power you have in this.

(((Hugs))) We're here for you.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 09:45 AM
GF

Seeking Answers gave you great advice, the only thing I will add is: Are you on anti-depressants? If not I would suggest you look in to them. If you are depressed you will not think clearly and make good decisions. There is no shame in taking these and you can go off them when things are a little better.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 03:28 PM
Seeking Answers,

Thank you so much for trying to help me understand. I guess I did all of the wrong things and now I'm worried that I messed up for the past 16 months and made it worse.

It's just that he confuses me so much and the kids. He just said to our D13 3 weeks ago that if he came back to the house he wouldn't know how he would get along with S19. Then a 1 1/2 weeks ago he is texting me asking if I need help with the pool. Water is on the cover and it needs to be taken off so I said yes. But then he didn't come do it, we got together instead. And when he dropped D13 off last week from a visit he didn't do it then either.

I was reading posts on here from years ago and it says to love them no matter what. Do I let him know that we love and miss him deeply. It says that they (MLCrs) need to know that. Is that part true. I'm standing for this marriage but I'm at a loss now that it seems after all of this time he is going through a MLC. And I was on Newcomers for almost a year.

OP, I can't thank you enough for everything you've done for me. Yes I am on antidepressants. It took 4 different ones before they finally started to help a little and to stop me from losing weight. But the Dr. tells me that pills are not going to stop this alone and that I need to help myself too.

I'm really trying but with the panic attacks that came along with the depression it is very very hard to GAL and to stop thinking. The panic attacks happen when I drive so I don't want to go anywhere at all.
Posted By: are you kidding Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 04:17 PM
Ok well you drive anyway and when the panic or crying hits, you just pull in somewhere and let it out. Works for me.

Besides some of you're best thinking can happen in the car and a song on the radio, might get you going again.

On the panic attacks, I went to the book store and got a couple of those audio cd's on how to help with meditation and reducing anxiety, it all boils down to breathing a certain way.

Have you tried that?
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 04:45 PM
GF, do not give the last 16 months any more head space. That's past. You only have to deal with today. Sometimes it's by a second at a time.

You are confused because you let yourself be sucked into your H's drama. Step back and detach from the alien he is now. Save yourself and your kids. There's nothing you can do to fix this for your H.

When your H sees you portray confidence and happiness. Nothing over the top, but fake it until you make it. With MLC confusion and waffling they are drawn to strength and calmness. Be the beacon that sheds light on the path home. Someone told me to "Be the change you want to see."

Do not tell you H how much you love and miss him. That is pursuing and acting needy. Actions speak louder than words. Move your life forward. You can stand without standing still.

Do 180's. Any way to get the water off the top of the pool yourself? Can you get your S to help? What about other things your H said during a spew session. Were there things that he said that stung? Usually those are the things that you could work on and change. Do them for yourself though and not for your H. Own the things that got you to this point in your R, but do NOT take the blame for your H's MLC. You didn't cause it and you can't stop or fix it. Take this time as an opportunity to work on yourself. It will stand you in good stead no matter what happens in your R.

As you calm and center yourself hopefully the panic attacks will be reduced and stop. This is your time to take your own journey of self discovery. Don't waste it by becoming so wrapped up in whether your H returns or not that you don't make the necessary changes for yourself.

As far as GALing do projects around the house until you can trust yourself to drive again. Keep busy.

Keep posting and do any venting here instead of to your H. Keep reading and learning because knowledge is power.

You can do this, and you will come out better than OK. We'll be here to help you along the way.
Posted By: are you kidding Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 04:52 PM
I read some of your thread in Newcomers and stuff.

Listen it's not too late!!

Are you dead? Nope, so no it's not too late.

What most of us were doing at the beginning wasn't working, so now it's time for us to do something different.

Some of us it takes time to get it. I still bounce all over the place, but I sure know now what wasn't working.

GF you have given birth to two children, you got one all the way to adult hood, go back to your post, everyone including you saw yourself as strong, when it comes to MLC and I agree with HB, we do become the opposite of what we were.

But as a mother you already have the instinct to be the strength.

For us to even get to the place we know where we'll be ok, we have to be able to pick ourselves off the floor.

If you don't have the daughter this weekend, get all over this forum.

You will find inspiration, something you struggled with understanding or doing will be explained a different way and you can have an AHAH moment.

The new thread is awesome that about the stages of grief that we go through and it gives us the permission to hold out as long as we the LBS' want to.

But the key to everything, is WE have to get our self esteem and our strength up, that's the first part of our journey.

I'm like you I'm always thinking and talking to myself. But it has gotten a lot easier on me, once I started to detach.

We have to get ourselves to a point where the MLC'er is missing out on us, not us on them, regardless we have the good and bad memories if they ever ask for them back.

There is pride and hope in that.

Be the old you a little bit, I know if I ticked my wife off, I got the silent treatment and she did what she was going to do AND LOOK AT THAT SHE IS.

Time for you to start doing the same.

And take you and your daughter to get a manicure:)
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 11:31 PM
AYK, no I haven't tried any of those tapes or anything. But will check into them. I'm in counseling for them plus the depression. Thanks for the information. Will have to check into getting some tapes.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/28/10 11:46 PM
SA,

I get what you are saying. I try not to get sucked into his drama but it is so hard. Especially when D13 comes home from a visit with him.

Just today she came home and told me she was helping him put clothes away and found a box of condems unopened and that she was on his computer and there was porn on there.

She was asking so many questions, and as it hurt me deeply I had to explain that her dad is ill and that as far as I know he isn't with anyone because she is afraid of him going to a different woman.

I know they lie like you wouldn't believe but he just told me when we were together that he is out of practice because the last time he was with a woman was me in Nov. but he did tell me about the porn. Is this normal? I have so many questions for this site and for all of you wonderful people.

I read on posts that they are hurting inside deeply and put on masks to make it look like they are happy. Is that true? I just don't get all of the stuff that goes on with a MLC?

He knows God love her that she has a big mouth and tells him stuff and me stuff. So I don't know if this is to push my buttons or to get me to contact him or just to upset me because he knows at least I think he knows I'm standing for our M.

How do I respond to him about the dating thing not being a good idea? Do I agree with him?

Thanks so much for you help.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 12:02 AM
SA,

How do I own up to things though that brought us to this point? In the beginning he was telling me how I was to easy on the kids and things and I agreed with him and said that I realized I was.

But just on the 17th he was saying things like "I heard things about you." I know we aren't suppose to defend ourselves and I think I messed up there too. I don't know if people are making things up and telling him things or it was to see my reaction. And I came right out and defended myself like a fool. Told him I haven't even gone out on a date or anything since the separation. How do I show him changes in me when he doesn't come around? He makes fun of me because of me going to church now and so on.

And you know about the lies already. He has told people that I cheated and thats why he left which is no way true. But I think he honestly believes it. He thinks I cheated on him since we were dating. How do I get that out of his head? It is NO where true! He use to say when we were together that the past is the past and now he throws things up to my face about the past. Is it your H or you W that is going through MLC? Are you together or apart?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 12:16 AM
AYK,

Where are you though in your sitch? Does your S contact you? Are you seeing any improvement? Did they file for D? See mine filed for a no fault within 2 months. Then when I said I would give it to him, he said he didn't want it.

Then just on the 17th he said he didn't know what he wanted then the following day denied saying that he didn't know what he wanted. This whole thing is driving me crazy. Do all MLCers do this? Bounce from one thing to another? Check out where he told D13 that he was moving a month ago because he couldn't afford the apartment he is at (which he can), and now he is checking out a place in the opposite direction of where he lives now and it is a house. He has ruined our credit! And this will be the fourth time he has moved in 16 months.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 12:43 AM
GF, Your D is only 12. As her mother and it appears her sole protector you need to set some boundaries about her visitations with her father. Apparently he is not concerned as to what she finds when she visits him. Document these things and tell him that if he continues to have these types of things where she can see them that he will have to visit her at your place or take her out. It is definitely not a healthy environment for a 12 year old. When you set the boundaries be firm and in control. Do not let him push your buttons, but make him understand that what he has in plain view is inappropriate for your daughter. MLC or not, NO one messes with mama bear's babies!

As far as a MLC lying believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. Please prepare yourself that there is or may have been an ow. At the very least if you continue to be intimate with him protect yourself.

You know your H better than anyone. Does he look like he's truly happy? My H tries to make it look like he's done the right thing by leaving and living with ow but my D's call it "Fake daddy happy." My H's eyes are hollow and his skin is gray. He's definitely depressed and unhappy. Sooner or later most wake up and realize that you and the M weren't the source of their unhappiness. Until the time that they are willing to face their issues and deal with them, they'll keep running.

Has your H asked you what you think of him dating?

Hang in there GF. Patience for the LBS is the key.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 12:52 AM
Quote:
I read on posts that they are hurting inside deeply and put on masks to make it look like they are happy. Is that true? I just don't get all of the stuff that goes on with a MLC?
Yes this is true. It is what is called masked depression. It is very common in MLC. The OM/OW gives them the power to put on a happy face. It is a quick fix, a drug, however when this fails then they fall into a deep depression. That depression is obvious to all and some times the MLC'er wants to commit suicide during this state.

A lot of this information is in the resources.
Quote:
How do I respond to him about the dating thing not being a good idea?
I would try to avoid talking at all, part of your detach/NC but if you must communicate then yes validate.
"I understand how you feel"

Keep reading and posting and as time goes along this will get easier.
Posted By: Was2sad Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 01:59 AM
GF

It was my X that changed after 25yr of M and two grown sons. There is almost never a MLC without deep depression, so when you saw depression you were not confused. They are lost and they are depressed. They are not who they used to be and they don't know who they are supposed to become, only that they are somehow being driven through a change they can not avoid.

Many of us LBS become so sad, so depressed, or stricken by panic attacks that we seek counseling and/or doctor's care with AntiDepressants (ADs). I was no exception.

I won't forget the days I was catatonic. A miracle I kept my job, and did not hurt myself. Well, that is not completely true. I did hurt myself by putting off talking to someone. I hurt myself by isolating myself. I hurt myself by trying to count all the ways I must have caused this and deserve my punishment.

Don't do those things. Don't hurt yourself that way. Your MLCer is not doing that to you, you are. We understand why, but you must help yourself by setting limits on the time you will set aside for grieving and match that with at least equal time spent doing something for yourself.

Work on placing great value on the time you spend with your daughter, or other family and friends. Consider your own spiritual health. That may involve church, meditation, or yoga - or all of them. Volunteering in some activity keeps you around other people and adds a purpose to your days.

Your MLCer did not stop loving you. He may have become so depressed with his own life that he is unable to feel real love at this time. He is numb, but doesn't want to be. He did re-write the history of your M so he can avoid the huge wall of guilt falling upon him. He doesn't want to be challenged or questioned. You know him best and that threatens him. He doesn't want to hurt you, or be hurt by what he is doing to you. That is not your fault. Try to validate his comments when you speak. You don't have to agree that you two should get a D, in order to say you understand he is hurt and feels that is the best thing for him. It is okay to validate his concerns. It is not okay to stop standing for your M. Keep the two apart.

No one can promise anything, but I will tell you I see more men get through this crisis and return than women.

MLCers are consumed with these thoughts:
What about me?
When is my time?
Is this all there is?

He does not want to date, like it sounds. MLCers self medicate. They prescribe themselves alcohol or drugs for their depression. They spend money for the instant gratification. They refuse professional help because they refuse to think they are broken. It is the world that is not working for them, not the other way around. The passion of a new relationship releases a chemical in the brain and the high is intense. It is a drug. It can be addicting. Your relationship has existed long enough for the body to adjust and settle down. He wants a new fix. If an OW appears, it is not as much a matter of the heart and soul, but a way of getting a fix and distracting himself from the hard work he needs to do on himself.

You have security and support to offer, but his brain wants a fix, a new drug to numb the depression and keep him from facing his worst fears. He will actually feel less the blame if he sees you doing ok. If he sees the pain he is causing you, he can't be around you. He won't. One of the many reasons you will be told to GAL. It returns many positives to you. If you feel you would be pretending or lying that you are ok, then make two rules.

1. Pretend to your H, but not your doctor or those you counsel with.

2. Learn to Fake It till you Make It. People learn that if they say they are ok, and act like they are ok, they slowly become ok.

My concern is only that you don't bottle up your innermost pressures too much before you speek with someone. Give yourself a pressure release valve.

He has some very hard issues to deal with. He is the only person that can do the hard work. He won't be forced. He won't do it quickly, and maybe not for some time. Some MLCers refuse to ever do what they must, and stay stuck.

Please don't focus on him. Listen to the people here that know how important you are. Listen to them when they say focus on doing things for you, taking care of yourself, and getting whatever kind of support or help you can.

cool
Posted By: Twink Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 02:13 AM
This is a wonderful post, Was2sad! Just the boost I needed tonight. Thank you.
Posted By: Mila Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 08:44 AM
Was2sad what an awesome post.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 10:05 AM
I'm sorry GF, I missed your post above about your H accusing you of cheating. Your H sounds like he is projecting on you to justify his actions. Sometimes it is their guilt of what they've done or thinking about doing that makes them do this. You've told him you haven't and that's all you can do. You can't control him or his thoughts and actions.

As far as him making fun of you, the changes he sees in you may be threatening to him. He wants to have you where he left you. Those changes have to be for you and if they're helping you that's what counts. Do not worry about what your alien thinks about them at this stage, he's not rational.

I see that your D is 13 now. I still believe the things that your H has around his place are inappropriate for her to see. You can set a boundary with your H if you agree. There is a way to set them without being overly confrontational and in a kind way. Hopefully it struck a chord with him by how your D reacted by seeing it.

You're getting some great advice and posts here from some very experienced DBers. Listen to them GF and take it to heart. You will get through this and be stronger for it. (((Hugs)))
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 01:13 PM
SA, They were in his dresser drawer so now I don't know whether to think she was snooping or he did have her helping him. I can't imagine him having her put his underwear away but you never know now the way he is acting. A friend of mine said he might have put them in there so she would come home and tell me. They weren't open. But you are right, and I plan on telling him about it but can anyone help me word it. I plan on texting him.

When I saw him he looked like I look, except he has gained a lot of weight (from the drinking I guess) where I lost a lot of weight. He had dark circles under his eyes like I do from not getting sleep. And our D13 says he still isn't himself. He goes from getting mad to sad to happy.

How long have you been in your sitch? You seem so strong and it doesn't look like you've been here long. But then again I was better at 8 months then I am now. I fear the longer it is the worse and harder it is to get him to come out of this.

As far as the dating thing goes with my H. He feels he is single since we separated. His step-mother helped him out with that one. She is the one who set up a facebook account for him and everything.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 01:17 PM
Thanks OP, you have been really great to me. You've been giving me so much info that helps me.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 02:54 PM
Was2Sad,

Thanks so much for the great post. I almost lost my job also, due to missing so much work because of the depression. All I did was sit and think and cry. How could he do this to me and the kids? He was always afraid I was going to be the one to leave. He told everyone how much he loved me all of the time. I just couldn't and still am having a hard time accepting all of this. It was like a switch went off and he just started snapping at the kids then me.

Then went and talked to his step-mother on a Sunday and started a huge fight with me on a Thursday and left. Moved in with his father and her for the first 6 months. She wasn't and isn't the nicest person around. She didn't help out the sitch out at all. They both just told him to leave and get a D.

You are saying that they don't want to hurt us but my H was just saying in Feb that he wouldn't go to anymore of our D13 swim meets because he can't stand being in the same room as I am. Then 2 weeks later he was being very civil and did go to the swim meet. Do you think that H says things to our D13 to get my reaction? He knows that she will come back and tell me without me even wanting to know.

It seems to me that sometimes he wants me to contact him, even if it is to start a fight. Like with the unopened box of condoms in his dresser drawer, and telling D13 that he is moving again. He just told her that in Jan. and he never moved to the city he said he was going to. Now he is saying he can't afford the apartment he is in to me then he tells her on Sunday that he is going to rent a house in the opposite direction of the last city he said he was going to move to.

Also if they are so depressed don't they need us to be there for them? This is where I get confused as far as the detachment and NC. Then at other times it seems like he wants to control me by saying things like he loves me more than just the mother of his child and he doesn't know what he wants to he doesn't have any feelings for me.

Are you and your S back together?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 03:00 PM
SA,

D13 didn't tell H what she saw, only me. She tells me all of the time that she can't talk to him the way she can talk to me. Any suggestions on how to tell him about this? Every time I have had something to say in the past that might hurt her or about his drinking (which he didn't do until now) he gets very defensive and screams! So I texted him the last time something happened and he still blew up.

I don't know how to word it so he doesn't blow his stack, and I do want to tell him to please watch what she sees.
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 06:12 PM
GF,

You are in good hands here from just the last few days of posts I saw. The problem tho, is you ARE getting some level headed advice, but not listening to it! Slow down. What I'm seeing right now is you've backslid a bit and need to remember, there is NOT one thing he does you can control. There is NOT one thing he does you can change.

If he's going to blow his stack, then dont' say anything, he's a big boy, he'll figure out where he messed up. In the mean time, tho, if you are concerned of items laying around at his residence or where ever that affects your D, definately as said, document it.

Everything else, you've already answered your own questions. I don't care if it's MLC, ADD, CIA, whatever accranym you wish to apply to your WAS, the bottome line is, you're dealing with a WAS. Thus, things will fine and dandy one day, and not the next. History as you know it has changed and will continually change to validate the WAS. Nature of the beast.

Keep sight of this!!!!!! This is nothing new.

If he wants to go on a tirade and be a beef jerky, let him, ignore him, act "as if" until it finally is AS IF. Stop trying to get in his head, you can't and you will dirive yourself looney if you don't stop. I tell you, when I was doing this I realized when I was no longer acting and things were in fact as if when (x)W would spew the same non-sense babble and finally instead of rebutting it, I'd just laugh, sincerely laugh and walk away. And that would piss her off so bad. WHY? Because I wasn't giving her a rise and arguing her chirades any longer.

I know it's difficult with children involved. However, there are rules in black and white you can fall back on. No need to create them yourself.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 07:36 PM
Thanks dday for checking in on me. I appreciate everyone's advice on this site.

I know what my problem is and it finally hit me. I'm having a terrible time detaching. I know the GAL thing and all of the other advice but when you suffer from depression this is very hard to do. Plus the panic attacks make it worse, and lets top it all off that H telling D13 things just so they get back to me or he wants to see my reaction it gets me all down and out all over again.

Dday, you are a success. How did you ever get your W to contact you and want to start again? I know every sitch is different but you were able to do it in such a short amount of time compared to me.

See there are also outside influences with my H. His family doesn't want us back together and sees nothing wrong with H. And he always worried about what they thought of him. So I'm sure this is confusing him even more and pulling him away from me and the kids.
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 09:28 PM
No problem,

Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I know what my problem is and it finally hit me. I'm having a terrible time detaching...... but when you suffer from depression this is very hard to do. Plus the panic attacks make it worse, and lets top it all off that H telling D13 things just so they get back to me or he wants to see my reaction it gets me all down and out all over again.


Look at it this way, is worrying about your H, how he's going to react, what he's going to say; do those thigns add to the depression and anxiety? I'm willing to bet, yes, and probably a ton. No?

It's not easy. But there comes a time when you just have to ask yourself, "is hanging on to this right now any good for me?". When the M goes toxic, it remains toxic until whatever caused the inbalance is recognized. And like dealing with anything that is toxic, the longer the exposure, the worse ailments it can cause will be.

Stop exposing yourself to the toxicicty. Again, I know it's not easy, and I can only imagine from the female standpoint how scary it may be just to let go, but it works.

That is all part of how my (x)W and I are in fact back together. I quit. I still loved her with all my heart, and she knew it, but at the same time, carrying out the same shinnanigans over and over just got pointless. I focused my time on myself, and the time I had with my boys. When I had to see her, I wouldn't even look at her unless I had to. It was all that 'dropping the rope'. Because holding on to that rope was continually tearing me apart. Worse part is, the kids see it. They might not say anything, but they do see it, and it makes them hurt just as bad, if not worse.

You know, (x)W and I had a VERY long discussion about all this again Satruday morning. Yeah, we've hit on a few thigns here and there since the initial conversation when she came to, but we rehashed everything. And what she had to say was a lot of what you can hear here from WAS's first hand, she wanted to caome back, she wanted to fix things so much sooner. When we could 'get along' for a few weeks at a time every 4 months or so, she would get all estatic, calling her friends up thinking we could have a chance. Of course, we couldn't. She had the baggage of OM, did not know why (EDIT, well she did, she was depressed and jsut didn't care, thought he'd make her happy, a new life would make her happy, when in opposite, it made her miserable), and I still did not recognize ALL my faults, nor did I frogive them, or hers. It wouldn't have worked. Even now, after doing all the above, it's STILL hard work.

So, I guess to answer your question, she made contact again and wanted to do this mostly in part to the 'loving detachment' I gave her.
Posted By: Round2 Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 09:58 PM
Im sorry is the Red Head (again) your XW?
And you two are back together AFTER a Divorce?
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 10:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Round2
Im sorry is the Red Head (again) your XW?
And you two are back together AFTER a Divorce?


Correctamundo on both accords.
Posted By: Round2 Re: MLC or not? - 03/29/10 11:06 PM
WOW, That is so wonderful and so encouraging to hear.
My H is divorcing me frown and I am believing in the END all will be okay...

I am so happy for you!!!
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 03/30/10 02:21 PM
Goodfight,

I have finally reread the past few days and feel like I have really caught up on your sitch.

Yes you were here for a long time. Not recognizing MLC, is not a mortal sin. That being said, you now believe that is what you are dealing with, and you are the only one that can make that call. So now that you know what you are dealing with there are certain realities that you must face.

There are NO guarantees. If your H wakes up and comes back, that is wonderful. But that may not happen. If you are going to choose to stand for your M, that is a fact that you are going to have to accept.

There are NO, I repeat, NO quick fixes, NO magic pills, NO tricks, NO specific tactics that will cause him to come out of this.

YOU CANNOT help him. You cannot wish him into his healing. You cannot convince him he needs help, he needs YOU, or anything right now.

Logic and rational thought have gone out the window.

This is a journey of the soul. A journey that takes years more often than not.

It is a journey whose outcome is never known and it isn’t just their journey, it is ours as well.

You keep asking the same questions. I think you need to really take some time and reread the MLC resources, the archives, and try to absorb what you are reading. The answers are there.

You are still very much wrapped up in how to get your H to come home. To be honest, if he came home right now, one of you would leave again not too long down the road. Neither of you are in a place where you could do the work that comes with marriage restoral.

You called Dday a success because his W has come home. He is. However, he was a success before his W returned, because, by his own admission, he finally took time to work on himself. To make himself stronger, to heal, to learn to forgive.

Here in MLC, we try very hard not to define success by the state of our M. Many of us, are no longer married to our S, but are definitely successes. Because we grew, learned, and we live and love. But it takes getting to the point where you realize that your M, or any relationship you may have in the future, is dependent on your R with yourself. If you are not healthy and happy, you cannot be healthy and happy with anyone else for very long.

To answer some of your questions, what you are seeing from your H is normal for MLC. Wanting one thing one minute and something else the next. Accusing you of things, normal MLC spew called projection. Spending out of control, also normal for MLC, do what you can to protect yourself financially.

Do you still love them? Absolutly. Do you tell them? No it is pressure and the last thing you want to put onto a MLCer is pressure.

Dealing with issues with your D? Telling your H what he is doing wrong is not going to do anything but hurt. Because you are criticizing. So you need to find some other way to minimize the damage with your D. This will cause your R with her to change in some ways. Maybe you need to become more open and honest with her. Maybe she needs to be in counseling to help her deal with stuff. But don’t expect to tell your H anything and have him jump right up and say “you are right, thank you for pointing that out”.

Trying to guess what he thinks, means, or why he does or says anything, is just going to make you crazier.

Dating, honestly, I don’t think you are ready to date anyone, let alone your H, who you have a painful history with.

Yes they wear a mask. They don’t want people to know the real pain they are in.

Is there anything you can do? Yes, you can take care of yourself. There is nothing, nothing you can do with him, for him, even if he starts his meds again, he still has stuff he has to work through on his own.

GF, your time in newcomers was spent focusing on your H. Let your time here be spent focusing on you. You can do this. It is hard, it hurts, it takes time, patience, hard hard work being totally honest with yourself, changing, healing, growing. But you can do this.

I promise you if you do the work, even if your M is not restored, you will be better for it.
Posted By: Was2sad Re: MLC or not? - 03/30/10 11:30 PM
GF

There are questions many people are scared to death to ask themself. They avoid it. They put it off. They run from it. They become paralized with fear when thinking of it. They have panic attacks!

Once they reach the point that they can sit still, breath calmly, and address these questions - they change. They must be ready.

What scares you? What makes you wake up sweating? What do you fear more - losing your spouse, or your M? We define ourselves by our dreams for the future, images of growing old together, and the idea of our M. We grew up knowing these things were our measure of happiness and success. We never believed it would be any other way, and don't intend to start that now. Our inability to consider any other possibility chains us in fear.

I'm only trying to point out that growing old with someone other than your spouse could one day be a reality. I am saying sometimes it happens. It can be for reasons beyond our control. You never want to believe an airplane could fall from the sky and land on your spouse - forcing you to make new dreams. It can happen.

Okay the plane thing is a stretch, but things can happen. The thing is that what you are unwilling to let go of will control you. Fear of loosing your spouse - that is something we should probably have learned to be prepared for earlier in life. Sure, we knew tragedies could happen. We didn't expect it to be this kind of tragedy, not for us.

Are you willing to accept that some things we can't change do happen? Are you willing to accept that you can't control other people? Are you willing to accept that this whole crisis thing is not going to kill you unless you want it to? What crimes have you committed that justify you punishing yourself with a life gripped in fear of something you can't control?

While Standing for your M you will find more peace within you if you also Stand for youself, and address some of these fears. Your life can be changed in any number of ways by someone else's crisis, thus making it yours. You can't change their crisis. You alone can decide how to handle your crisis.

You alone must face your own fears that trigger the panic. Talk to a IC about these things. You've started a marathon you never trained for, so now you need coaching by someone who knows how hard this marathon is mentally and physically. You can do that and you will survive this. Taking control of your mental and physical health will lighten your load and make you much more able to Stand stronger and longer. The race you are in will take time.

You will be in better shape when you can face the things that trigger your panic, and tell them NO - not this time, not now. Mentally repeat to yourself something positive that gives you purpose or strength until the tough moments pass. Maybe it is a prayer or a meaningful phrase that can hold your focus. Once you've felt some relief and success, it will become easier to manage each time. I started with repeating my boys names, and telling them I love them. I added my parents. I added a prayer. It has now been a long time since I had to do this in defense, but try to do it often because it became important to me.

You want to be able to tell your negative feelings "I have important things to do for myself" Then go do them. Get out around people (not saying dating). Explore hobbies or interests you did not have time for in the past. If you can't find time now, when will you? Take back the control and pardon yourself from the crimes you did not commit. Parole yourself from the things you can't control.

One of our oldest rules here is "What you focus on expands." Focus on what makes you happy or laugh. It will feel right and natural. You will find yourself happier and laughing more. Make it a point to smile at people you pass. It makes them smile back. You have the power to make people smile and laugh because you are full of life. So focus on living it well and this crisis will not own or control you. You will focus on becoming a better happier person that others want to be around - including crazy MLCers.

The plan is too simple; but that is it. And if it doesn't work for your spouse that doesn't mean it isn't working for you.

cool
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/31/10 04:05 PM
Dday,

I think what is stopping me from detaching is when D13 brings him up every day. And when she comes home from her visits she goes on and on. H I know is telling and saying things in front of her to get back to me. I stopped reacting at the end of Jan.

I would call or text and tell him to please knock it off and of course he would flip his lid.

I know hanging on is toxic, but I just don't know how to drop the rope. All I do is think and think. I wish I was as strong as you are and a lot of people on this board, but I'm not. I was hoping the antidepressants would help, I guess be my magic pill but nope. Yes, I had to go through 4 of them to get to the one that is helping with my panic attacks but I'm still so depressed.

How do I stop exposing myself to toxicity, when D13 tells all after a visit? Just hearing Daddy this and Daddy that and then she will say Daddy said he is going to do this or that. Now I know and want her to be happy with her visits and I don't want her to be afraid to discuss them but I really believe that is what is holding me back.

For instance, 3 months ago he told her he was moving to another city (a city he couldn't stand), well, he has a year lease until Sept. where he is at now. Then just on Sunday when she came home she said Daddy is moving to here now (opposite direction from the city that he was thinking 3 months ago).

H told me he can't afford the apartment he is living in now, but then tells D13 he is going to rent this house in another city. So I get to listen to this and it rips me apart!
Any suggestions?
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 03/31/10 04:21 PM
uggggh,

I know that 'one up' game all too well.

Fortunately in your case as in mine, your H is slowly doing himself in saying he's going to "do this and do that" and it never materializes. Your D13 will see this soon for herself soon enough and the "daddy praise" will die out in it's own due time.

In the meantime, WITHOUT making it a competition, find new things to do with your D13. This not only will take her mind off the "daddy praise", it will set your mind at ease in doing so and forge a new relationship with her.

Lastly, until D13 sees that H is full of junk, you need to train yourself to just let it all roll off.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/31/10 04:38 PM
And believe me he can afford it. He makes twice as much as I do and left me with everything.
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 03/31/10 04:40 PM
He can afford what?

Monetary value doesn't mean squat anyway. I found plenty of things to do with my boys that didn't involve much money and they enjoyed every moment of it.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 03/31/10 05:31 PM
Was2sad,

I've had panic attacks from the time I was a teenager. Whenever something drastic in my life would happen it would bring the panic attacks back again.

I mostly have them when I drive.

I guess my biggest fear is losing my spouse. You are so right. I do define myself by my dreams for the future that we both had. And the growing old together, it makes it worse because a week before he left without having a clue he was making future plans for us. You are so right I am in such fear that it is not going to happen now.

I think though it is different from death and a WAS. Sometimes I think it would be easier not that I would want it to happen ever, but if something happened to H at least I knew he loved me before it happened. With WASs you feel and/or told that you are no longer loved the way they use to love you.

I wish I could just let go of all of this fear that I have. I'm in IC and trying to get through all of this stuff that I'm experiencing. I really need to get control of my mental health big time. How I wish there was a magic pill or something just to get me to detach and move forward!

I work two jobs just to get by and boy oh boy I have to house clean the house. Always make plans to start on the weekend coming up but then I'm so down and out, so I just sit and cry. I know I need to make myself do it, I just don't know if it's because I figure why bother? Who knows if I will be living here and if so for how long? Who is going to notice? No one comes around. I don't want to be around anyone.

8 months ago I started the house cleaning thinking there will be hope that H was coming home and that it was just another episode with his depression. We use to do the major house cleaning together.

I remember when I wished for time for myself and now that's all I have. My S19 moved out 2 months ago with his girlfriend and now my D13 is always with her friends out doing stuff. I feel so alone! I don't have much family left at all. What the kicker is, is that me and H couldn't wait for her to get a little older so we could do stuff together and leave her by herself. Now the time has come and he is gone.

Sorry for going on and on but having a very depressed day as you can tell.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 02:23 PM
Was2sad,

I've been trying to read your thread but can't find it. Are you back with your W? Can you attach a link to your thread? I don't know how to attach a link on here so that is why I was in newcomers and then realized I probably need to be here.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 02:59 PM
GF

If you go up to Was2 name and click on it it will give you all his posts(at the bottom). If you want to read them all from the beginning go to the last page that will be his first post from 2005.(right now it is page 391)

To put a link on your thread just go to the page you want to link copy the URL and paste it where you want it to go.

Hope that helps.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 03:01 PM
dday,

It's not only the "Daddy Praise", it's things he says in front of her to get back to me. It's like he wants me to get mad or cry and to react. Is this normal behavior for a WAS to do this? To get the kids to come home and hope that they tell us something to either hurt us or to get to us?

As far as the money thing goes, I know that it doesn't take money to do things. But it the one week she came home from a visit and said "Daddy got a new tv, but don't tell him I told you." I just said "that's nice, don't worry I won't say anything." She knows that it would start a fight because he is all for himself right now. He ruined our credit and doesn't pay on loans and charges that he should have.

But anyway, I'm there at his apartment 2 weeks ago and he says to me "See the new t.v. I got, it only took me 3 weeks to save." I just said "Yeah". He knows how me and the kids are struggling, and throws it in my face how he can afford to buy things that he doesn't even need.

Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 03:11 PM
Here is Was2 first thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=552531&page=1
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 03:15 PM
Thanks OP. Really appreciate all of your help. When I go to someone's thread, I do see all of their posts but I don't know how to just read their sitch. Like yours for instance. It shows all the replies and your sitch and I don't know if it is a reply to someone or it's your sitch.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 03:21 PM
When you look at "all posts" the ones that say "re" are reply's. Look for ones with no "re" they are the beginning of the thread. Then go by dates.

Edit: I didn't realize my profile has the wrong thread on it.

I just fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out smile
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 03:41 PM
Thanks OP you are the best! Did you get a chance to see why I think I'm having a hard time detaching do to our D13?

Can you take a look and let me know what you think?

Thanks again.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 04:15 PM
I know that it is hard to be NC when children are involved but detachment is more your state of mind. You need to think that your WH has been in a car accident and can't speak anymore. So their is someone else speaking to your D13 telling her nonsense. You can change the subject with her or acknowledge what she is saying but you need to let it roll off your back. Detachment is the hardest thing to accomplish. But the most important. With out learning this lesson we can not get thru our stages of LBS. It is not something that you will be able to instantly do. But you can work on it.

For me the NC helped obtain this state. But it can be done by being dim. The other activities help. GAL, "act as if".

Work on being the best parent that you can be! Get involved with your children's activities as an adult supervisor.

Just keep at it. Things will get better.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 04:23 PM
GF

Are you on the alt?

Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 04:31 PM
Quote:
I really want to recommend these books, and yes there are a few things in this list that contradict what we do here in MLC but overall it is really a good read.
To answer your question from my thread I did put that disclaimer on it. Remember he is talking about menopause not MLC. Although they are very similar they are not the same. That took me a while to understand but you can go thru one with out the other and vice versa.

All people go thru menopause not all people go thru MLC
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 04:37 PM
I'm sorry OP, what's alt?
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 04:48 PM
Alt = Facebook

Then become a fan of DB. Let me know when you have done this.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 05:17 PM
I'm on now OP.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 05:36 PM
AYK or anyone I can't find the thread about the stages of grief that we go through and it gives us the permission to hold out as long as we the LBS' want to.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 05:36 PM
Your initials are kk?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 06:39 PM
Yep. Y?
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 06:53 PM
check alt again
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 07:16 PM
ok
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 07:18 PM
I see and you are jl?
Posted By: ddstartingover Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 07:21 PM
yes, he is....
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 07:22 PM
Hi Dianamo,

What is the status on your sitch?
Posted By: ddstartingover Re: MLC or not? - 04/01/10 07:52 PM
Trying to focus on me............H is working on his D......
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 01:53 PM
Well D13 lost her cell phone so she called H last night from mine. She talked for about 2 minutes because she wanted to go outside with her friends. Then about 10 minutes later my phone rings and it was H, I figured he was looking for D13 so I didn't answer it. I waited about 20 min. then texted him and told him that she wasn't home and did he want her to call him when she did get home. He said no because he was getting ready to go to bed and that he wanted to know if she wanted to go fishing today after school.

I asked if he wanted me to have her text him then to let him know and he said yes please. I just text back saying yep. I'm trying so hard at this detaching stuff but it seems like every time I turn around his name is being mentioned by D13. Then I go right back to being sad again. So she is going with him today after school.

What do I do? Do I just stay in the house till he picks her up or (don't know what time) do I go outside and wait with her? Make sure I look nice?

And what do I say if he texts or calls my phone to let me know what time he is picking her up? See he always just calls her phone but now he can't.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 02:07 PM
GF,

First things first. He is her father. I know when this started I hated it when my S would talk about his father. I just didn’t want to hear his name at all.

I had to come to terms with it though. I didn’t want him to choose sides between his parents. I also didn’t want to lose my R with my S, I wanted to build it, and the only way to be able to do that was to accept that I would have to be willing to listen to that stuff even though it hurt.

Our children, they are not trying to hurt us. They are trying their best to handle what life has thrown their way, to make sense of it somehow, and to keep a relationship with both of their parents.

If it is really really difficult for you, you may ask your D to stop sharing information, but I think you may then feel excluded from that part of her life.

Find her a new cellphone asap. That way, your actual contact with him is minimized.

However, you also have to understand that she is only 13. Many many things are going to come up over the next few years that you are going to have to speak to him about even if you don’t want to. So I would talk to him if it is about her.

Then make some plans for you while they are together. Start GAL, and you may find that you aren’t quite so sad when his name is mentioned. It all takes time.

As far as waiting to see him, that is up to you. If you wait to see him, you have to do it with no expectations. Just because you look happy and pretty once or even a million times, he may not act any differently. That is just the nature of MLC.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 02:40 PM
Thanks Cat.

Working on a new phone now.

I know they (the children) aren't trying to hurt us, and I really feel bad for her right now.

I know you are going to think I'm crazy but I don't even want to think about the next few years without him. I'm praying that we will be back together as a family and will be able to attend things as a family.
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 02:52 PM
GF,

No one would think you were crazy for wanting that. It is what we all come here hoping for.

However, as we learn, it is no longer our focus. Just a pleasant side effect if it happens.

We say detatch, we say no contact, but we don’t say stop hoping. We don’t say stop praying.

We say learn who you are, without him, learn what you want from YOUR life, empower yourself.

Then, whether he returns or not, because there just are no guarantees, YOU will still be happier, healthier, and better able to deal with comes into your life next.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 04:31 PM
Not sure why you wanted me to drop by, Cat's got your back.

Better than having your tongue, although...meow...that makes an interesting picture.

Look, dettaching is EASY when they aren't around. Harder when they are but like anything hard doing something well only happens with pratice and practice only comes with time.
He is their dad, even if a comet fell from the sky and killed him today, his name will still come up in future conversations.

It's almost like Miracle Max reacting to his wife when she says, "Humperdink."

Kudos if you know what I am talking about.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 04:34 PM
Oh, I know I can't thank cat enough. Just wanted to get your opinion also, hope that I can reconcile like you Jack!

Thanks for stopping by.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 04:43 PM
You won't reconcile like me.

You will reconcile like you.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 06:41 PM
Boy or Boy do I need help with that. I don't know how to start this whole process again......looks like I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning before I found this site and after I found it.

Do I go dark? I mean we had relations 3 weeks ago and haven't heard from H and we were discussing dating and then he just went back into the tunnel again, I guess. After I said to him "you just don't know what you want do you?" he said no. A couple of days later he claims he never said it.

Now what?
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 04/07/10 08:11 PM
GF - Claims he never said it. Doesn't surprise me a bit it's MLC script. Their memories are shot.

Very common for them to go back into the tunnel after connecting like that. I think it's like emotional overload for them and they can't deal with it. They absolutely don't know what they want. Their confusion is your friend.

Hard to go dark when you have kids. Go dim. Only have contact with your H if it's about kids or finances. Then keep it brief and to the point. If you see your H act as if you're doing fine and above all do not initiate any R talk.

And as Cat so wisely pointed out, this is the most important thing...

Quote:
We say learn who you are, without him, learn what you want from YOUR life, empower yourself.

Then, whether he returns or not, because there just are no guarantees, YOU will still be happier, healthier, and better able to deal with comes into your life next.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/08/10 03:39 PM
Well yesterday H took D13 fishing. Her phone was stolen so he texted me and asked me to have D13 call him. I wasn't home from work yet so I texted him back and told him she had just called me from a friend's house and wanted to know what time he was coming for her. He texted me back 4. I texted him back ok.

So he takes her and then I was sitting outside reading DBusting and he drops her off and she comes running with a pizza box and said "Daddy said this is for you, Happy Easter" I texted him and said "Thanks for the pizza" He responded "Yep" so then I texted him where are the wings? He said D13 ate all of them. So I just said thanks and Happy Easter to you too.

How did I do?
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/10/10 03:40 AM

This from Was2sad says it all:

Quote:
Your MLCer did not stop loving you. He may have become so depressed with his own life that he is unable to feel real love at this time. He is numb, but doesn't want to be. He did re-write the history of your M so he can avoid the huge wall of guilt falling upon him. He doesn't want to be challenged or questioned. You know him best and that threatens him. He doesn't want to hurt you, or be hurt by what he is doing to you. That is not your fault. Try to validate his comments when you speak. You don't have to agree that you two should get a D, in order to say you understand he is hurt and feels that is the best thing for him. It is okay to validate his concerns. It is not okay to stop standing for your M. Keep the two apart
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/10/10 04:03 AM
Goodfight,
I can only tell you how I am personally feeling not what your H is feeling. Each one of us have a different outlook on our MLC, do it for different purposes and feel differently about it. I am a woman. A care taker. One who deeply cares about others before herself. I have ALWAYS thought about my H. I always wanted my H to reach out to me but when he did he was sniveling and that's not what I wanted/needed. I always wanted to contact him but just couldn't for a number of reasons. Right or wrong, they were MY reasons.

The veterens have given you excellent advice. Please, please take care of you first. You have all of my positive thoughts. Depression sucks.
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/10/10 02:52 PM
GF,

You did great. Keep things upbeat and positive.

Celestial
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 03:23 PM
Thanks Jas, you've helped me a lot.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 03:24 PM
Thanks Celestial.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 04:12 PM
Quote:
Can you please explain to me in detail what replay is?
On page 2 of your thread I gave you links to the resources. Look up in the main resources the stages of MLC. There is a detailed explanation of "replay" by Heart Blessing. She explains it much better than I can. If after you have read it you have questions, I will try to help.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 05:21 PM
Thanks once again OP! You are one of the best!!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 05:27 PM
Well, OP doesn't look good for me then if he is still in "replay". I copied and pasted where you told me to read again. Here it is:

As long as the Mid Lifer continues "replay" behaviors they are nowhere near to being ready to start their way out of the tunnel; the "awakening" they have IF they come to it, is a "turning point" to beginning their journey out of the tunnel.

When the "awakening" occurs, they begin to suffer the next stage-Depression, and it is a low point of the Mid Lifer's journey.

The Replay stage is the LONGEST of the stages, and can last up to two years or even longer, depending upon the "replay" behaviors used during this time.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 05:52 PM
This is all true, however you must understand that most people on this board, come here while there spouses are in "replay" so that is common. There is no way to tell how long it is going to last or if they will continue the same behavior over and over. The turn can be sudden and usually when least expected. You must take the focus off of your husband and work on yourself.

Read the link on the LBS. Start to work on you. GAL.
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/12/10 09:59 PM
GF
My H is still going trough replay. He`s been in it for 5 years. He seems so much better, than back to replay. He seems normal at times, then back to replay. His alien still comes out when things don`t go his MLC way. Then I know he`s looking to satisfy his ego. Replay again.

He`ll tell other people he thinks he`s depressed,(not me) because of being stuck in our M. After all this time, he still thinks the same as he did when his MLC began.

Celestial
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/13/10 03:05 PM
OP, I thought I was doing better and now I'm back to thinking about H again. I have been working on myself lately though. I just get mixed signals sometimes. Someone on this board said it would never happen suddenly and now you are saying it can.

Just thinking out loud I guess.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/13/10 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: OldPilot
The turn can be sudden and usually when least expected.
I didn't say they would recover suddenly. Just the change. The rest of the sentence says when you least expect it. If you are expecting it believe me it WON'T happen. Its kind of like a watched pot never boils.

Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I thought I was doing better and now I'm back to thinking about H again.
This is something you have to work on it doesn't change right away and we all have good days and bad days.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/13/10 04:29 PM
Got you OP! Need to find the thread that you were talking about.
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/13/10 04:41 PM
GF
We all have good days and bad days. Of course you`re thinking about H. You`re life has changed and you`re trying very hard to get through this without your life partner.

Don`t beat yourself up for thinking about H. Soon your good days will last longer, and bad days will come up occasionally. The better you feel, the better you can deal with H.

A technique to use is the stop sign. Whenever you`re thinking about H, imagine a stop-sign, stop, and put you`re focus back on yourself. This works if you stick with it.

You can do this. We take babysteps as well.

Celestial
Posted By: mermaid Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 02:58 AM
GF
You will have good days and bad days. Just let the feelings come and wash over you. You will regroup and feel better tommorrow. Yes replay does take a long time and when and if they wake up it does seem like it is sudden but that is why you take the focus off of h and put it back on yourself. When the day comes that your h comes home you need to be emotionally strong and healthy. You are doing great.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 02:56 PM
Don't know what's going on......having another bad day! Just when I thought I was doing good it hits and when it hits, it hits for a couple of days.

Still have not heard from H since the 24th when he said it wouldn't be a good idea to date. Prior to that, just 2 days he said he would like to and that Sundays are not good for him and he would let me know what days are good since his work schedule has changed.

Just journaling, sorry everybody but having a real rough one today!
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 03:42 PM
Goodfight,
I have a lot to read through here from the older threads. Will take me a while...
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 03:57 PM
Thanks June! I know I have been on here for over a year.
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 04:02 PM
GF,

This too shall pass. Seems to me that H is in hiding. Let him come to you when he`s ready. He needs his space right now. He feels pressured by you. He does want to see you, but he`s afraid of an R talk, I think because of the dating issue.

Come here to vent or journal. We understand, you haven`t heard from H in a while. He`s confused. You`re doing great. Yes, it is hard, keep zero expectations, don`t expect anything and you won`t feel so disappointed.

Celestial
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 04:03 PM
mermaid, I was trying to find your thread but can't seem to find it. How are you doing? Did you reconcile?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 04:52 PM
Celestial, do you think that's why he wasn't answering D13's calls and texts? That's not like him to ignore her. But he didn't call her on Sat. or Sunday. And if he doesn't see her he always calls.

I didn't mean to pressure him at all, and now I feel bad that he is feeling that way. But if he does want to see me and is afraid of R talk, why doesn't he just text me and ask how I'm doing or something on that order? I know no one can get into his head. I'm hanging in as far as NC with him, I haven't contacted him since he told me a couple of days later that he changed his mind about dating and said it wouldn't be a good idea.

Why do you think that he wants to see me?

I can tell you this much, you made me feel so much better just by saying that he does want to see me!
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:07 PM
Quote:
Why do you think that he wants to see me?
Why did he marry you?

This doesn't disappear just because he is depressed and not thinking clearly.

I would not dwell on this. You must give him the space that he desires.

Have you ever heard absence makes the heart grow fonder?

His heart has to do this. You can't force it on him.

Keep yourself busy and take the focus off of your H.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:20 PM
Because OP he told me that the feelings aren't there anymore.

And you are soooo right, I need to take the focus off of H. Just having a bad 2 days for some reason.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Because OP he told me that the feelings aren't there anymore.




And you are believing everything he says ?



GF.....

You are having bad days because EVERYTHING is revolving around what he says/does/has said/has done.

YOU are letting him spin you...



......and when he doesn't ?



YOU let the monsters in your head spin you....




Focusing on YOU....

There is a reason almost everyone that has posted to you has said the same things.....

It helps you become calm through the storm...

You focusing on you is your own little shelter from that storm...

It protects you and keeps you warm and safe from anything that gets thrown your direction during the storm....

Take this time to understand and read through the resources...

Understand what you are dealing with...

AND that you have work to do while he does his.....
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:32 PM
Ok Mach, I'm really sorry. I think sometimes I get really down and let him spin me is because of the depression I'm in myself.

I know I have lots of work to do as far as working on myself and I'm really trying. It's just that these antidepressants didn't kick in yet, I have a few more weeks the Dr. told me.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Ok Mach, I'm really sorry. I think sometimes I get really down and let him spin me is because of the depression I'm in myself.

I know I have lots of work to do as far as working on myself and I'm really trying. It's just that these antidepressants didn't kick in yet, I have a few more weeks the Dr. told me.




I understand about ADs.....

They will work some....

They are also NOT a miracle cure for finding yourself, and please don't let that be a crutch for you to lean on....

Usually about 4 weeks to be fully vested on them....

and about the same amount of time to come off of them....

GF....

You really DO control the most important thing that you can right now....

and that is YOU..


Who you are

Who you want to be

How you interact

How you let things affect you....

Whether you let the monsters in your head out to play or not....

What you feed those monsters...

Who you CAN become if you are willing to focus on yourself and do the work....

When you see your reflection...( not physical either), are you who you really want/envisioned yourself to be ?

You aren't gonna talk your way out of something you acted yourself in to......

And if you do the work....

You will be a success no matter what...

Are you gonna sink ?

Or swim ?
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:49 PM
Goodfight,
I read through all of your threads up to page 5 of this thread.

You are spinning so much. Codependency? I see a lot of people givng you great advice but some how you are so stuck. Fixated too much on him.

I have to ask you. How would you live if he was dead? B/c that is how you should live.

My sitch and you rsitch are extremely different b/c my hubby never left, wasn't drinking and was always about the kids. We also had sex on and off and sometimes there were be signs of affection towards me.....

I have little knowledge of MLC. Not sure if it is real or not. It doesn't matter to me. There is still accountability. If a person murders someone and is depressed they are still held responsible. MLC is not an excuse to treat your famiy badly. Just isn't in my opinion. And if a person is spiraling downward- you may want to help them- you can't you have to step aside adn say I am here if you need me but I will leave you to it.
Make sense?


As everyone has said over and over and over- you are too fixated on him. I am sorry but it's true. There is nothing more you can do at this time. You can control your interactios with him but little more. The ONLY thig you can do is focus on you and your children.

I know these things are easy to type on a message board but harder to live by.
That is why the "fake it till you make it" mantra is so true. What would make you happy (not including your hubby) in your life. For anxiety (speaking as some one who lived with sever panic attacks) listening to comedy tapes while driving helps or really fun music, talking alot on the phone to friends, hard exercise, meditation. GALing may be hard at first but the more you do the more you will want to do. Have you joined any meetup.com groups? Like potluck dinners or movies or coffee meetups, maybe a hiking meetup. My mother always told me something- in the old days- mental institutions had the patients scrubbing hte floors b/c an idle mind can lead to sadness. Busy (not too busy) people are happy.


I don't know if this man will ever get better or not. You can't keep holding your breath waiting. Exhale, live on. Read mb28's latest post- she states it perfectly.

He has left 18 months ago, has been emotionaly and verbaly abusive, not giving CS, Ding you, drinking, not contacting the children, upsetting the children, lying to you, looking to date, etc, etc

Read what mb28 just postded on her thread.....

The advice is move on but leave the road home paved smoothly. Detach, GAL, focus on you and family, work on PMA. Any interaction with him has to be very controled on your end. Do not take baits. Practice how you will react to him....


I have to step out for a sec- young one screaming for me....
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 05:59 PM
June, can't find mb28's thread. Can you help?
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:00 PM
Infidelity section, will type more later...
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:30 PM
I guess the only thing you can do for now is live your life your you! Not live your life for your hubby.
I think it is important to have as little contact as possible adn the contact that you do have - have a calm demeanor, validate and set boundaries.

He does not respect you. When someone does not respect you they do not value you. In order to gain his respect back you can not put up with his "cr@p".

The pining away over him is not attractive to him. If he knows that he can have you whenever he wants- he has no desire to work on himself. Why should he- you are still available to him.
But if you are unavailable to him and he still finds that he is miserable- he can not longer blame you and the M. He must look at himself as the cause.

If I were in this sitch- I would chose to be happy, live an active social life, casually date, exercise, take up hobbies. I would work on "healing myself". There an be no moving forward till you change the dynamic that there is b/t you adn hubby.

I posted something on Flowmom's thread that my MC stated 2 years ago. Should be pretty recent. Can you read that also?


I will tell you this....
What is not working- you being so available an pinning away over him. Has it worked for you up to now? Will it work for you in the future?

If you do serious changes- he may or may not take notice. That is basically the best chance you have.

Work on making youself happy. If he sees you very content and happy he will really questionwhy he is still miserable. He will eventually (hopegfully) get that you are not the cause of his unhappiness.....
He has to get this.. the only way you can facilitate that is by moving onto a better mental place and positive calm interactions and very little contact....


So hard to do, I know... but you can do it. Many others have.


Is you are truly truly desperate to get him back. This is the only method you can take. And it may or may not lead to success, IMO.
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:31 PM
I mean you do not what the man he is now, right?....
You want a fixed man, only he can fix himself.

Have you written down goals for you?
DO you have a journal to write down feelings and thoughts?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:33 PM
Found it. Thanks June. The problem is if he was dead, I think I would be able to move on better. I don't want anything to ever happen to him whether we get back together or not. But I'm standing for my M and that is the hard part. I never lived on my own this long in my life. Plus I always had a boyfriend or a relationship, so I think why this is hard on me.

It has been 17 months with no one in my life and it is a struggle but I do believe in standing for my M. God forbid but if he had died at least I know that he loved me and the kids and that I would be able to move on and not be breaking any vows. That is what the struggle is on my part.
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:33 PM
Sorry for all the typos it's hard to type with a little one tugging at my arm
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:36 PM
NP June. I responded while you were responding. So you might have to go back a page to see what I wrote. Did find mb28's thread. Thanks!
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:43 PM
Wow, read everything,
You are getting great advice.
Look at this in the worst case scenerio type of mind. He never comes back... how do you live then? Examine the worst case scenerio and you eventually lose fear of it. LIve as if he is gone forever. Don't be stagnated by fear.


For now he is gone, he may come back someday but you have to have changed also.....
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Found it. Thanks June. The problem is if he was dead, I think I would be able to move on better. I don't want anything to ever happen to him whether we get back together or not. But I'm standing for my M and that is the hard part. I never lived on my own this long in my life. Plus I always had a boyfriend or a relationship, so I think why this is hard on me.

It has been 17 months with no one in my life and it is a struggle but I do believe in standing for my M. God forbid but if he had died at least I know that he loved me and the kids and that I would be able to move on and not be breaking any vows. That is what the struggle is on my part.



Sounds like codependency to me.
Wonder what others think.
You do not need someone to be ok.... You can be fine on your own
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 08:05 PM
GF, from MPOV, a WAS/MLC'r, you are needy and whiney. Did you behave this way when H left? My H did, over and over, all 4 times I came back to him. I couldn't be responsible for HIS happiness because I myself was not happy. That was the behavior in our M the last 7-10 years. I was looking to H to make me happy. The pressure he projected was overwhelming, so much so, I ran the 5th time.

Regardless of the conditions of your M, the conditions of your health are most important and that is to take care of you! Taking care of you first will take care of the M. I believe the DB Veteren's Mantra. Thanks to all smile As you are in IC while on meds, you will be advised to take care of yourself first.

The best advice I have received is to treat the M and H as a death. Sure different situations, but same principles do apply to an extent.

You give me hope that I too can stand on my own two feet and live alone.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Jasmine
GF, from MPOV, a WAS/MLC'r, you are needy and whiney. Did you behave this way when H left? My H did, over and over, all 4 times I came back to him. I couldn't be responsible for HIS happiness because I myself was not happy. That was the behavior in our M the last 7-10 years. I was looking to H to make me happy. The pressure he projected was overwhelming, so much so, I ran the 5th time.


I do agree, most of us, until we "get it" appear this way at first. However in fairness. The perception and or thinking of the WAS is often skewed. Sometimes so much so that a simple question like "What would you like for dinner?" is considered pressure.
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 08:34 PM
Quote:
I do agree, most of us, until we "get it" appear this way at first. However in fairness. The perception and or thinking of the WAS is often skewed. Sometimes so much so that a simple question like "What would you like for dinner?" is considered pressure.


unfortunately sad but true frown For me, it wasn't just the questions it was also the surroundings that was pressuring.

GF, work on yourself first. Everything else will fall in place. (I think Cat gave me that advice) wink
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 08:48 PM
"What would you like for dinner trapt?

Come on, why won't you tell me what you want for dinner?

I bet that slut is making you dinner, huh? Well I hope you choke on it."

Remember that the above conversation ALSO get diluted down to:

"He wouldn't tell me what he wanted for dinner last night, he is so distant, why is he acting that way?" That's what we end up hearing...the clean version.
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 09:51 PM
GoodFight,

I read the beginning of your thread. Sounds alot like what I went through. My W was on Zoloft and took herself off her medication - not good. I have a SS who's alot older than my D. My mom had a stroke and was bed ridden until she died. Followed by my dad who I didn't know very well passing away. Now you have a brief view of my history here's what I think.

I don't think you helped your H when he was on the ADs. All of a sudden he was nicer and easier to take advantage of. I don't this was done intentionally; it's just human nature. Unfortunately, inside H's head was a ticking time bomb. He was doing things he felt wasn't really his nature. Almost an imposter if you want to think of it that way. Then when he took himself off the ADs, all hell broke loose. The chemical imbalance threw his mood off and he "brained washed himself" turning what you thought was good into one of many things. Maybe he thought you were controlling or taking advantage of him or one of many other things he could dream up.

I'm not trying to put the blame on you. I'm telling you with as much honesty as I can this is what I've done to my W. The MLC may have brought on the depression but I (we) don't know how much harm we caused.

From my experience I can tell you to not plead. Find a very tiny thing in common and do it with him. Don't let H know you're only doing it for him. Let him think all your improvements are for you and no one else.

Again I'm sorry if I hurt you in any way. I've been know to say my piece before getting all the facts. If you like to discuss or give me a piece of your mind - please come by my thread.

Fixer
Posted By: june72 Re: MLC or not? - 04/14/10 11:07 PM
Fixer I think you are projecting your experience onto Goodfight. I didn't see her taking advantage...?
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 01:35 AM
June,

I'm sorry if you think I'm projecting. I'm not a good writer and sometimes I leave things out. I didn't mean taking advantage of in a bad way. I think people know what type of person they are and when on AD's they will tend to accomidate other people. For example, my W doesn't like going to the movies and I do. When she was on her AD's and if I asked her to go to the the movies she would agree. If I asked her to go for a walk she would do that too. For a few moments the M was perfect and I L her more than ever.

So I think just maybe for a little bit, he was doing things that just wasn't his personality. What we/I may think is our spouse doing something for us, is really an internal battle.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Fixer
Posted By: mermaid Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:11 AM
GF
MLC is one of the most difficult things you will go through. You are doing very well even if some days you don't think so. It takes time to feel whole again. Just keep on moving forward one step at a time. It is time for you to stand on your own. You can do this and you will be so happy and proud of your accomplishments.

To answer your question. My h and I did not reconcile and I was a lot like you. I had never been on my own but I like my life better now and I look forward to more great things in my life. I am sad for my children but they are doing very well because I stayed sane and put them first in my life. I also surrounded them with people who love them.
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:37 AM
Mermaid, I'm sorry things didn't work out. I remember reading your posts so long ago. You did your best and the strenght you gained from all of this will help you when you need it.

Good Luck,

Fixer

GF - Sorry about the hijack.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:30 PM
Mermaid,
I'm sorry things didn't work out for your M. I want to thank you for the words of encouragement!

Fixer, my H was diagnosed 12yrs ago with depression. He was very angry and sad. I'm not saying that I was the perfect wife, but when they did find out the problem he had and put him on the AD's he was back to his old self for years.

Every time he went off of them he would change, becoming sad and snapping on me and the kids. But then I would talk him into taking them again and he would be fine. This time he had lied to me and kept telling me that he was taking them when I had a feeling he wasn't. He started to drink, snapping at the kids, snapping at me. I did not see this coming (him leaving). He started a fight on a Sunday went to Step-mother and father's came back after talking to them and fought with me until Thursday when he left. The day he left I found the bottle of his AD's and he hadn't taken them for 3 1/2 weeks prior to his leaving.

Since he has been gone he went on them again and was coming back to his old self but then stopped again. This happened twice. He is drinking really heavy now according to our D13.

Yes, I was crying and begging in the beginning I didn't realize I was pushing him away until I read the book and found this site. I have back slid some times also, but won't do it again! Not only do I think he is going through a major depression again, but also a MLC which includes depression.

I will wait for him to come to me. I'm the type of person that took care and takes care of everyone. I love to do it! I took care of him with not only his depression problems but also when he would be ill or in the hospital and suffered ceasars. I just know from this site that I can't help him now, and wish I could, just wish he would come to me like he has done in the past during our M and ask for help! I feel so bad for him, and I feel totally helpless.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:33 PM
Jas, in the beginning and here and there during our separation I was begging and pleading for H to let me help him and tried to convince him it wasn't the M causing his problems. But I have stopped all of that.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:41 PM
Fixer, how do I find a tiny thing in common and do it with him when he is gone? You have me confused. He hasn't contacted me since he told our D13 last Wed. to give me the left over pizza they had and told her to tell me Happy Easter (4 days after Easter). There isn't any contact and the last contact we had was on the 24th when he changed his mind about us dating saying it wouldn't be a good idea.

I'm confused on this one.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 02:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I'm the type of person that took care and takes care of everyone. I love to do it!



Maybe it is time to start with you then......
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 05:14 PM
Agree with Mach.

GF, you really need to take of you. Your self esteem is low. Treat yourself to something for YOU. No one else but YOU. I too was the one that took care of everything and everyone. It's a lot to carry on small shoulders.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 05:53 PM
But isn't that being selfish Mach and Jas? Only worrying and taking care of myself.
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 06:02 PM
If you don't take care of you, WHO WILL?

Someone asked this of me, "So, how is that working out for you? Taking care of others and not yourself?"

For me? Not so good. I was miserable, hurt and angry and had a lot of self pity, self loathing. Blaming OTHERS for my unhappiness. You need to be the change you want to see.
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 06:12 PM
GF, Finding anything in common is not an easy task. In the sentence you wrote to me I found a few; D13, holidays, food and dating. Always look your best when you see him. Make him wait and have him chase you.

You can call to talk him about D13's school or anything else. Keep to the same subject and don't bring up any R talks. If he does just listen. The more you give him what he wants (not S3x) the more he will want to be around you. Don't go dark unless he's so mean you want to stay away from him. End all phone calls before he does and always seem like you have somewhere to go when your around him. At first it may seem like your acting or being fake, but in the end you may find out you have (GAL) a life.

Good Luck,

Fixer
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
But isn't that being selfish Mach and Jas? Only worrying and taking care of myself.


On some levels, it can be.

Look at it this way....

Who is taking care of you right now.....???

Who is taking care of your children right now ?

And I don't mean the physical taking care either.....

I mean supporting them emotionally...

You have a daughter that is at a very critical atage in her life .....

Who is showing her how to care for herself...???

All I am sayin is....Do you want her to grow up and be this attached to another human being ?

Or would you rather SHOW her how to be independent and self-supportive throughout her lifetime ?

Every second WASTED thinking about what if's in your Marriage...

Is time taken away from that time that could be spent nurturing that relationship with them....

How can you be anything for them, if you aren't there for yourself ?

Being there for YOU, is how you can take a step forward and recharge, so that the tank isn't empty for them....


So....

Is THAT being selfish ?

I don't need your answers...

However you and your children do......
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 07:12 PM
Ok fixer I got ya on some points, but do I call him since I haven't heard a word in a week and 1/2? He told D13 to give me the pizza etc. I texted him thank you and happy easter to you too, lol. But that was it. How do I begin talking or texting him again? I have been doing all of the work with our D13 on my own for a long time, since hes been gone.

He doesn't call and ask about grades or anything. How would I even begin a conversation and as far as the food that was way back in Nov. And I can't bring up the dating thing because he said he changed his mind and doesn't think it would be a good idea for us to date one another.

I got you too Mach! Thanks again!!
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 07:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Ok fixer I got ya on some points, but do I call him since I haven't heard a word in a week and 1/2? He told D13 to give me the pizza etc. I texted him thank you and happy easter to you too, lol. But that was it. How do I begin talking or texting him again? I have been doing all of the work with our D13 on my own for a long time, since hes been gone.


A week and a half ?

Seriously ?


Originally Posted By: Goodfight

He doesn't call and ask about grades or anything. How would I even begin a conversation and as far as the food that was way back in Nov. And I can't bring up the dating thing because he said he changed his mind and doesn't think it would be a good idea for us to date one another.


You just answered your own question there...

YOU form those relationships with the kids....

And you cannot worry about HIS relationship with them.....

Be available, and IF he wants to know, then he will know where to find that information out....

I'm not too certain that you are gonna find something in common with a MLCer....


Originally Posted By: Goodfight

I got you too Mach! Thanks again!!



Sure about that ?
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 09:06 PM
GF, Mach is right in saying a week and 1/2 is not a long time. I lived with my W so the chance of running into her was high. Common ground doesn't come easy. There's a common ground somewhere but you have to find it. Call to remind him its someone's B-day or this person is in the hospital. Just don't stay on long. The first year she dropped the bomb, I called her to plead my case. I could tell by the way she answered the phone, she was not interested in talking. I said something came up and would call back later. I came to my senses and realized it was not the right time for an R talk. I waited until the day was almost done and then called back. I asked her some unimportant question. She answered it, I thanked her and then quickly got off the phone. Even though these calls were awkward at first; each call afterwards got easier.

Fixer

Fixer
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/15/10 09:45 PM
GF

Patience my dear. H will call you when he`s ready. I know you want to talk with him, but let him come to you. I have a feeling he`s thinking about this dating thing. He`s probably afraid you remember and will bring it up. Remember not to, and no R talks next time you do talk to him.

If you keep texting and calling, you will interrupt his much needed space, let him begin to wonder about you, then he`ll get in touch with you.

Your H`s concept of time isn`t the same as yours. He`s so zoned out that time doesn`t matter.

You seem better today, good for you!!!

Celestial
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 03:46 PM
Mach, Fixer, and Celestial,

Thanks for the advice. Yes Mach I do get it now. Fixer, we have been mostly texting as far as when we do communicate, which I hate! But there is something that I do need to know, not right now but in a month. It's something about the pool. It's like we are both afraid to talk on the phone for some reason, it is awkward....maybe that's it.

I know it hasn't been that long since the pizza thing but Celestial is right and so is everyone else. I have to wait for him to come to me.

About the pool question though.....do I call or text him and how do I go about it? Do I wait for him to contact me about something? Do I call him if he doesn't call or text me before I need to know the answer? All I need to know is if he had changed the sand in the filter since we had the pool. I had someone help me with the pool last year and they told me that the sand needed to be changed around every 5yrs. I honestly don't know if H ever changed it and the person that helped me said that if it hasn't been changed I need to do it this year before I open it.

Fixer, just wanted to let you know that I texted H about someone passing away around a month ago and he didn't even respond. So I don't think reminding him of a birthday or anything would help.

Also, Fixer and Celestial I really don't think H would contact me first. It seems like he waits for me to contact him for some reason. Like in March I had asked him if he could tell me how to get the water off of pool cover etc. and he said he would do it for me and would let me know when. Well, around a week or two later he contacted me and asked if I had got it done or not. I said no, and we ended up texting back and forth joking and that's how we ended up getting together but at his place because he didn't want to come down since my girlfriend was there. Well, that's when we had the conversation regarding the dating thing and you all know what happened after that. Needless to say, thank God I found someone to get the water off of the cover because he never called or texted me seeing if I had got it done or not.

I know I need to detach and I do better on some days than others. Celestial, you said you liked when your H contacted you while you were going through your MLC. I have texted H on his birthdays, and holidays but since I'm trying to detach I didn't contact him on Easter.

I think what part of my problem is that our anniversary is coming up and this year it's on Mother's day also! Got through last year but was rough but really dread this year. See H's real mother and step-father's anniversary is the same day. H and that side of his family all picked the date and pushed the idea of getting married in the first place. I was the one that was really hesitant on getting married due to being divorced because ex H was very physically and emotionally abusive.

Do anniversaries bother any of you? Or are you detached enough not to think of them?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 04:02 PM
Celestial, I'm sorry. Got confused there for a second....lol. I typed about your MLC and I meant your H's MLC.
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 04:40 PM
GF,

I think texing is not personal enough. You send a text saying H John Doe died.. blah, blah, blah. Doesn't help an MLC'er. A call with empathy saying "I have bad news, John Doe died." Leaves open a communication link. Remember an MLC's is thinking about their own mortality and how much time they have on this earth.

About this pool cover and sand. As a guy's point of view we like to be appreciated. If you ask H to do you and the kids a favor when you know he's listening he may tell you what you want. Here's how I would ask.

Hey H, I know you always took care of the pool. While I was getting it ready for the summer I found out the sand might need to be changed. Do you remember the last time the sand was changed? If he doesn't tell you what you need then change it yourself. The next conversation can then be how you changed the sand yourself and what happened.

I believe we need to let the WAS know we're alive. Let them know by our actions (not words) we got our life back. They are secretly watching us. They already blame us for not having a life so when they see we have our own life; it make them think. Is it me or her?

To quote Star Wars "Stay away from the darkside." Going dark hurts us more than them. First it takes away the opportunity for them to get a peak at what you've been doing. Second, it will make you wonder if this is the right thing to do. Work on you... loose weight (if you have to) work out, join a club, go to the movies by yourself. Go back to school, do something.

Fixer
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 05:39 PM
Thanks Fixer! I will call H if I don't hear from him in a couple of weeks. Probably at the end of this month. I agree with the texting thing. That's why I hate it, you don't even know if they are in a good mood or not, anyone that you text that is......can't hear the sound of their voice.
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 06:19 PM
I’m sorry I just can’t sit back and watch this anymore…


Originally Posted By: Fixer

About this pool cover and sand. As a guy's point of view we like to be appreciated. If you ask H to do you and the kids a favor when you know he's listening he may tell you what you want. Here's how I would ask.


Here is how I would ask…

I would ASSUME that it has never been changed, go out, buy the sand necessary, and change it.

Then I would keep my own records, so in the future, I would know when it needed to be done again.

The people at the pool store can tell you how to do this. You can find the instructions on the internet.

NOT a big deal, NOT a crisis, and DEFINITELY NOT something that requires contacting him. I own a pool. I deal with it. Period.

Originally Posted By: Fixer
I believe we need to let the WAS know we're alive.


They know we are alive. AND they are trying to get away from us. WHY would you force yourself on someone who SAYS they don’t want you around?

Yes they watch. Even when they don’t live with us, they watch…

Originally Posted By: fixer
To quote Star Wars "Stay away from the darkside." Going dark hurts us more than them.


UNTRUE. Going dark teaches us to take care of ourselves. It helps us to stay out of the line of fire. To stop the spinning and make a life of our own.

Part of the problem, in most of our situations, is that we are way too involved with our M’s. NOT taking care of ourselves.

NO taking care of yourself is NOT selfish. IT is NECESSARY.

Let your H spin and take care of YOU and STOP worrying about what he is doing and LIVE.

IF you have a chance at all of getting him back, that is what you have to do.

IF he doesn’t come back, well then your life is better and you know how to take care of what you need to take care of without him.

The choice is yours and yours alone.
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 07:20 PM
GF,
I am siding with Cat on this one. YOU should NOT contact H about this. You haven't done enough work on detachment for YOURSELF!

Yes, I wanted to hear from H, but after doing some of the work here, it was not in my best interest. What I wanted to hear from H was, "Just checking in on you to see how you are." I didn't want to hear his neediness and that he couldn't do certain things for himself without me. He called me one time because he couldn't find a sleeping bag for him to go on a camping trip with his buddies. The dog was sick what should he do? Uh, VET?

This may be sick and construed but at the time, his needy calls were interrupting MY "new playing house time" with OM. Had he called just to check in with me, I wouldn't have felt it was an intrusion.

Ok, that just flowed from the keyboard...back to reading the boards....
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Jasmine
GF,
What I wanted to hear from H was, "Just checking in on you to see how you are." I didn't want to hear his neediness and that he couldn't do certain things for himself without me. He called me one time because he couldn't find a sleeping bag for him to go on a camping trip with his buddies. The dog was sick what should he do? Uh, VET?

This may be sick and construed but at the time, his needy calls were interrupting MY "new playing house time" with OM. Had he called just to check in with me, I wouldn't have felt it was an intrusion.
Jasmine, I find this very interesting. Thanks for writing it. I told you that you would be able to payback.
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/16/10 11:19 PM
Hi Cat,

It's clear you and I don't agree on how to treat an MLC'er. To contact the WAS or not to contact them. To be self suffient or not. I agree that going dark is a protecton, but I don't see where GF has to protect herself.

At this point like the subject of this post we don't know if her H is in MLC. If he's a true blown MLC'er he needs to make this trip alone. You can't reason or tell him what to do. I think he knows what he's doing and can't help himself.

I think in order to save this M, we have to try different things. I also feel that going dark should be a "Last Resort Technique" we save for an emergency.

Fixer
Posted By: Jasmine Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 04:23 AM
Thanks OldPilot. As I participate more, I learn more about myself.

Like GF, I was the "mommy". Making sure EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING was in order for H to have a smooth life/day. He didn't have to lift a finger on ANYTHING. This was what was programmed into me to being a wife. If I took care of home and everything that fell under that roof, all he had to do was bring in the income, life would be peachy.

Fixer, I am not Cat but just wanted to chime in. From GF's posts, she still feels the need to be the nurturer and the care taker. From what I have gathered, she hasn't done enough detachment and truly taken care of herself. She is still fragile and damaged. Any sort of contact can throw her H into running again and her back to square one.
Posted By: lalxx Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 08:36 AM
GF,
I can only reiterate what worked for me - I have a policy of not responding to a given situation (e-mail, text, call) until after 9pm that evening - if the issue still bothers me at that time I try and formulate a plan to sort it - if I can't then I write it down in my journal and sleep on it. Most issues are not in my head by 9pm.

You need to just take a little step away from your husband - I am paraphrasing here but someone on this forum wrote:-

The things that drags all of us down the most is our constant watching of the circumstances around us. A small trouble is like a pebble. Hold it too close to your eye and it fills the whole world and puts everything out of focus. Hold it at a proper distance and it can be examined and properly classified. Throw it at your feet and it can be seen in its true setting, just one more tiny bump on the pathway to life

This makes total sense - not having much contact with your husband is counter intuitive to you and that was how it felt to me but since I LEARNED how to do it, with dignity and for the right reasons, I have a better take on my situation and can see the wood for the trees.

I hope this helps a little as you seem to be twisting in the wind but I guess you KNOW what you need to do but doing it is another.

My husband left 7 months ago, has been in a relationship with an exgirlfriend from 25 years ago for 18 months and in the last 2 weeks he has shown real interest in what i am doing, has noticed changes to our home and knows my plans for GAL - I haven't told him - my children have shared bits with him BUT he is looking at me and is intrigued by what he sees - I continue to be warm when i have to be and detached - playing by my rules so that I don't get hurt again by rushing him into something that I want desperately (a chance at reconciliation) but know in my heart of hearts it is way too early for him......

Save your sanity and start on the road to the you, YOU are meant to be.

lalxx
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 09:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Jasmine

Fixer, I am not Cat but just wanted to chime in. From GF's posts, she still feels the need to be the nurturer and the care taker. From what I have gathered, she hasn't done enough detachment and truly taken care of herself. She is still fragile and damaged. Any sort of contact can throw her H into running again and her back to square one.
Fixer, GF
FWIW I agree with CAT. In MLC detach, NC if possible, is the best thing to do for both yourself and the one in crisis. Other DB techniques have to wait until later.
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 11:21 AM
Fixer,

Well I almost don’t know if I need to respond as so many have done so very eloquently.

Let me start by saying I may have a recent register date, but this is my second go round with MLC. I have been dealing with this on and off since 1998. I have made every mistake there is, and I have tried things that people on this board have never mentioned, some with success, as he returned after 2 years the first time, some not so well. However, it wasn’t until I really worked on myself and started putting my focus on building my life versus my marriage, that I was able to see my situation clearly.

While I do not always advocate going dark, I do not see it as part of LRT. Which really, if employed correctly is not a technique but a state of mind. Saving a marriage is not about manipulation and ploys, stroking of egos, making changes that don’t last or are not right for you but for the sake of the marriage only. It is about two people being willing to work through their issues, together and separately. It is about learning how to forgive, learning how to communicate, and learning how to be interdependent, not co dependent.

In GF’s case, she needs to go dark, so that she can work on herself. If her H came back now, NOTHING would be different. While that might be okay for her, I can see it leading her back here shortly. From her own words….

Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I know I'm wasting a lot of time and energy, but just can't stop thinking about this whole mess. It consumes me all day at work and where ever I am. All I do is think and think. I'm so depressed that I'm on my 4th antidepressant and lost over 25lbs that I couldn't afford to lose.


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
It's just that he confuses me so much and the kids.


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I almost lost my job also, due to missing so much work because of the depression. All I did was sit and think and cry. How could he do this to me and the kids?


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I'm having a terrible time detaching. I know the GAL thing and all of the other advice but when you suffer from depression this is very hard to do. Plus the panic attacks make it worse,


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I know hanging on is toxic, but I just don't know how to drop the rope.


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I guess my biggest fear is losing my spouse. You are so right. I do define myself by my dreams for the future that we both had.


These are not words of a person who is ready and able to put a M back together. These things are just from this thread.

These are words of a person who continued contact will confuse her more. She has been here a year. I do not know if she is any better emotionally now than when she received the bomb.

As far as her H being in MLC…

You are right we don’t know, only Goodfight can make that decision. However IMO from reading just this thread, it would not surprise me in the least.

Fixer,

I believe in treating the MLCer with as much loving kindness as possible. Sometimes, the most loving and kind thing we can do for them, and for ourselves, is to leave them alone.
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 12:37 PM

These are not words of a person who is ready and able to put a M back together. These things are just from this thread.

These are words of a person who continued contact will confuse her more. She has been here a year. I do not know if she is any better emotionally now than when she received the bomb.

As far as her H being in MLC…

You are right we don’t know, only Goodfight can make that decision. However IMO from reading just this thread, it would not surprise me in the least.

Fixer,

I believe in treating the MLCer with as much loving kindness as possible. Sometimes, the most loving and kind thing we can do for them, and for ourselves, is to leave them alone.

These are all good reasons to go dark. Some of us go dark as a LRT when after treating our MLC`er with kindness and love, they are still so lost.

Every sitch is different, we are here to help our journey.Everyone`s opinion matters to all of us. That`s the beauty if these BB`s.

Celestial
Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 06:28 PM
GF,
It's clear I don't know your stich as well as others on this board. I think it is also important to understand we need to listen to all advice and be honest with ourself. Only you will know what works best.

Cat, your thoughts on going dark for self preservation is right. For me it hurt when I went dark. Since my W and I lived together it might have been different.

Fixer
Posted By: SoCo Re: MLC or not? - 04/17/10 07:57 PM
GF,

I think Cat is right on. You can handle the pool. Maybe you haven't before, but you can start. Your H needs to see that you are self sufficient and can function without him, and for YOURSELF, you need to be self sufficient. I learned to do tons of things I had never done before and it felt great!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 04/18/10 08:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
But isn't that being selfish Mach and Jas? Only worrying and taking care of myself.


IS this a joke? Is it working for you? What is it modelling for your d? And m? Think of the oxygen masks on a plane that you have to put on your face first, before you put on the baby's face. If you don't put your own survival first, both of you will not be able to breathe and you will both die. I think it's a lie to believe it's selfish; I think believing others need you is a way of saying they won't love you and needing you is the best you can hope for....so you create a need by "helping" them and "being there for them" but always with an expectation. That's not love.

My real point though ----You have gotten some of the best advice on this board and are ignoring it. The posts by Was@Sad, (who helped my sitch SO MUCH-thank you again W2!!), on 26 and 28 March especially, and many other posts by SA and others, are SO SPOT ON....if I could, I'd reach thru this computer and shake you to WAKE UP AND SNAP OUT OF THIS...you are NOT helping your sitch.

Don't do what does not work. That is NOT complicated. It's hard to change ourselves but it is SIMPLE...not complex, just a little brave.

You are choosing to be stuck. Until you are sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, you will keep spinning in circles, poss going down the drain, and you will keep your d in a terrified mode too....

You have to show up and woman up for your d. You are instead making her part of this mess more than she already is. OMG listen to the song "Because of You" by Kelly Clarkson and imagine her singing this to you in a few years. You gotta do right by her.

Take W2's advice. That means re-reading it over and over until it sinks in. Stop spinning about what your h is doing/saying/thinking feeling or whether this is MLC, depression or a brain tumor or OW or satan or a Martian taking over his brain.

Bottom line is he's not with you. Assume he's in Australia for 3 years if it helps, or that he's dead. Then what? We all know he DID love you and probably still does but obviously that is not all that matters. If it were, you'd be fine already. Thing is, you have convinced yourself you cannot live, let alone be happy, without him as your h in the home. You are teaching your d horrible lessons about life. Stop that. Just stop it.


What do you think people here mean when they tell you, repeatedly, to focus on you? Why won't you? You focus a lot on his depression but not on your own and that's the only one you control. OMG please think of how this all must look to your d.

Imagine your life is a novel. How is it THIS chapter going? Who is writing yours? Who is the main character? From what you have written so far, you are barely a part of the book, b/c it's all about what your h is doing and how it makes your d feel or say and then, after that, how you feel which is always sad or afraid....

Shouldn't you be the author of your life's novel? If you are going to write the novel of your life, how would you say the next chapter should go?
And how would you like the rest of your book/LIFE to go? Why not write it that way? Do you have any idea what I am saying?

Are you skimming this post to see if there's a magic specific thing to say or do that will fix it all?

Yes, I'm reconciled. I thank people like FIB and W2 and baseballannie and about 4 others for that along with a DB coach. I recommend you use a DB coach b/c they can and will give you specific advice and help you monitor it with insight and compassion. Also, it is not that expensive when you compare it to the costs of what is happening to you and your d, let alone the fact that it might help you live well or even save the m.

IF I were in the same sitch but knew then what I know now, I'd hire a DB coach right away and post here, but I'd change my own life much much faster, and not spend nearly the time I spent on wondering what my h was doing/feeling /thinking or feeling. To this day, I don't believe he knows. And to the extent he does, so what? So much wasted time on my part making it about him, and not about my own life. I put so much on hold and was not fully present for my own children b/c of my pain. I regret that. You are doing this as well. But I got better much faster than you have. I put the kids in front of all else for clarity sake at the time, and realized then, that for them as well as me, I had to become a happy person again. That taught my d's that NO MAN can "MAKE" me unhappy. Happiness is within our control. Aristotle said "happiness is a virtue" for a reason. It is within our control and only within ours. Believe that. Or continue to let someone else be responsible for your life and teach your d that...how's that working for you?

What matters is us going forward, not figuring out the past.

Change your life asap. Re-read the posts by SA and W2 and Jack3beans. You have been stuck too long. It's self infllcted. Get better. What else can I say that would make a difference if those wonderful posts have not helped? Read them til you have memorized them....and hire a DB coach and just get better. Start today.
j
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/20/10 06:06 PM
Thanks everyone for all of your responses. I did parts of the pool myself with help from a friend last year but this is a different issue, so that's why I didn't know what to do. Fixer went through a MLC so I figured being a man he would know what I should do....as far as how H would feel about me asking a simple question. And Fixer said he would have liked it, it makes a man feel important.

The problem is that I have very very little money so I don't want to spend it on sand if I don't need it and also 25 if I had the money I would call a DB coach right now, or would have in the beginning of this mess.

And no, I didn't skim over your thread. I read everyone's responses. I understand what you are all saying and what I need to do, and believe me I know all about D. I was married once before, but didn't try to save it due to he had drug problems big time. And yes it hurt and I had all these feelings of sadness, but I wasn't going through a clinical depression either because of the D.

I'm in a depression now myself, so it does make it hard to detach and to stop spinning and so on. I don't like feeling like this at all! And believe me I know that I've been stuck too long. If anyone has gone through a depression they know that you just don't snap out of it.

Will re-read the posts by everyone.

Thanks again.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/20/10 06:56 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight

The problem is that I have very very little money so I don't want to spend it on sand if I don't need it and also 25 if I had the money I would call a DB coach right now, or would have in the beginning of this mess.




I was under the impression that you HAD talked to DB coach Jody in the beginning of this....

You used to post as Lost41.....right ?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/20/10 07:37 PM
Yes, I did talk to Jody once but I got a loan from a friend. Just got done paying her back. Can't afford to do that again, and don't want to ask to borrow money again.

But boy do I wish I could talk to Jody again, she was great! But I can't take out anymore loans or anything. And when I talked to Jody that was in the beginning when I didn't know that H was going through a MLC thought he was just depressed from not taking his meds.

That's what I meant in the beginning of this mess (MLC) and not just a depression. A lot has changed since then.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/20/10 07:56 PM
What did Jody tell you then ?


What did she state YOUR path should be ?
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 12:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I'm in a depression now myself, so it does make it hard to detach and to stop spinning and so on. I don't like feeling like this at all! And believe me I know that I've been stuck too long. If anyone has gone through a depression they know that you just don't snap out of it.


Goodfight,

No you don’t just snap out of a depression.

I think that has been one of the points made by people who have been posting to you, on all of your threads.

MLC contains depression. Your H is not going to just “snap” out of it either.

However, I feel like you are using it as a crutch.

A crutch to spin, to not move forward, to keep feeling bad until the pills make you feel better.

To be honest, yes they take some time to work…

But, they only work to a degree. You still have to do the work involved to start making yourself feel better. This isn’t like taking an antibiotic. It won’t fix the problem on it’s own.

I have a friend, who is diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. She spent 4 years in a psychiatric facility. The first two on medication only. Which helped with her depression and mania, but made her ill in other ways. She spent the next two years, in intensive counseling, working herself off of the medication, and learning how to deal with life, because she knew that she didn’t want to live that way but she also didn’t want to live life out of control.

She now has two children diagnosed with Autism. Was in a physically abusive relationship with their father for a while. Never once, in the last 16 years have I heard her blame her disease for any difficulties she has had in dealing with things. She has acknowledged that it makes it a bit more difficult at times, but she never lays down and says, I’m having a low period and when it passes, or when the pills kick in (because she refuses to take them) THAT is when I will deal with this. She uses the knowledge she gained in therapy, the coping skills, and recognizes why she is feeling what she might be, looks in the mirror ALL of the time, and deals with her problems, as best she can, ALWAYS overcoming.

She is my hero. She is one of the bravest women that I know.

GF,

Nothing is different because you have decided that your H is in MLC. Not really.

How you handle you, the advice you have received since you first registered here, is the same.

Detatch, GAL, work on YOU, focus on you and your child…

Because you ARE NOT doing those things, anything you do in regards to your H, is NOT helping you M. Fixer’s advice, is great, for down the road, if you H starts to wake up, but right now, it isn’t so good.

Right now, you H sees the same old Goodfight. EVERY time you have any contact with him, you are the woman he is running from.

Why?

Because you haven’t shown him anything different.

I have read each and every word on all of your threads. You haven’t shown me anything different so I can guarantee you haven’t shown him anything.

We may seem harsh to you.

We have all been there. THAT is the reason. Because we all DO understand.

No one, not a DB coach, not me, Mach1, 25, Fixer, J3B, Jasmine, no one can guarantee you your H will return. That is the unfortunate reality of MLC or WAS.

But do you really want to live the rest of your life this way?

Or does the possibility that whether your M is restored or not, that you won’t always have to feel like this, that you can have a good R with SOMEONE at somepoint, sound more appealing to you…

Happy, healthy, whole people attract people to them.

Depressed, sad, lonely people tend to remain that way. Isolated.

So maybe you have found the magic pill you seek. The fix. Not a quick fix, not an easy fix, but a fix none the less. One that many of us can tell you works. Not to reconcile a M, but to save yourself.

A reconciled M, that is a bonus.

Why do you keep avoiding doing the work that will make you better if you really want to be better?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 02:41 PM
Mach, she told me how to act when he would call (he was calling and yelling all of the time in the beginning) and what to say to him.

She helped me also with the kids, and what to say to them.

And she also did tell me to like everyone on this board to GAL and to get help for my depression. Just to wait for H to contact me, and not to call him to argue with him about not paying bills etc.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 03:10 PM
Right now, you H sees the same old Goodfight. EVERY time you have any contact with him, you are the woman he is running from.

Why?

Because you haven’t shown him anything different.


Cat,

It was about the first 8 months of so that I was begging and pleading and trying to convince H that he was depressed and just needed his meds. So I feel I have shown him by not doing that anymore and not contacting him. How do I show him someone different if he isn't around now? The only time he would contact me is if I would contact him first. When I asked about the pool a few months ago he was very nice about the whole thing. He waited around 2 weeks to get back to me and told me he would have time to do it that night.

Last year like I said I had someone help me thinking I was showing H I didn't need him, well that didn't work. He didn't show any interest that I was doing ok with the pool, house, etc on my own. So I thought Fixer's advice would be the right thing to do. I haven't done anything yet. But it did seem whenever I had a question regarding the house or something H acted happy that I was asking how to do things and that it made him feel good about himself. He had very low self esteem the whole time we were together and I thought that it would give him some self esteem back.

So this is how I get confused by all of this. I thought I was acting different and have shown him things (changes in me). By not begging, pleading, calling and arguing etc. But then again how do you show a person anything at all if they aren't around to see changes?

Maybe I should just get off of this site, I'm also on Rejoice Marriage Ministries and I'm standing for my marriage and we all know that only God can make miracles happen. You are suppose to show your S unconditional love. I don't want another R down the road or anything, I want to obey my vows and fight for my M with the help of God.

I was thinking yesterday about getting off of this site because I guess I just can't be as strong as a lot of you are and especially your friend, your hero. I admire everyone that has given me advice and those that have moved on or reconciled. I don't want to be a bother and it seems like some of you are getting disgusted with me because of my confusion and asking the same questions, and I fully understand. I'm sorry for what I have put you through, but want to thank you for everything you have done for me.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 03:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight

And she also did tell me to like everyone on this board to GAL and to get help for my depression. Just to wait for H to contact me, and not to call him to argue with him about not paying bills etc.


GF,

You stated that this was in the beginning of this. That has been over a year. And while I do realize that everyone heals in their own time, part of that process is to start detaching.

The first step in detaching is to limit or cease all contact. That is FOR YOU.

You didn't take Fixers advice simply because he is a man, and had a MLC.

You took his advice, because it was THE ONLY PLAN that allowed you to initialize contact with your spouse.

Fixer is in a different spot than you need to be.

You are so focused on your spouse that you are not seeing the damage that you are doing to you.

When you post here, you are only willing to listen to other posters who have reconciled, and you define that as a success.

You have consistently ignored some of the BEST advice on this board, as well as a DB coach.

I fully expect you ignore this post.

The post above from 25 sent shivers through me....

Who is it that you want advice from ?




I went back and read your first thread in MLC.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1780149&page=1

That thread started June 8, 2009....

That advice that I posted then, is the same advice that I and many others have been posting to you for almost a year now.

No body here wants to see YOU in this pain.

Many here see this pain that you are in, as self-induced.

The focus HAS to be on you , and taking care of your children. Your Daughter MORE than anything else. The example you are setting is not a healthy model for her.

Teach her to stand for what she believes in , but you have to find a healthy way to go about it.

Find a way to do better than you have shown. Stop looking for any lame excuse for contact with him.

Let the relationship between he and your Daughter become THEIRS for now.


It's time GF......

Time to stop being the victim and start healing....





( Fixer, I meant no offense to you. You ARE in a different place than GF is. )
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 03:46 PM
Quote:
Last year like I said I had someone help me thinking I was showing H I didn't need him, well that didn't work.


Well no, of course it's not going to work. There isn't anything you can show him that will just "work".

That's why you focus on you, you do for you, you take care of what you need to for you. It takes two people for a marriage, and you can only control one. No, it's not selfish because that's all you can do.

He is away for now. Will he return? NO ONE can answer that. So what do you think you should do with your time while he is away? Improve, learn and grow? or Sit, watch, wait and revisit the pain?

No it's not easy, we all have been there and everyone moves through this at their own pace.

Quote:
So this is how I get confused by all of this. I thought I was acting different and have shown him things (changes in me). By not begging, pleading, calling and arguing etc. But then again how do you show a person anything at all if they aren't around to see changes?


It shouldn't matter if he's around or not because you shouldn't be growing, changing and improving for his sake.

Quote:
I was thinking yesterday about getting off of this site because I guess I just can't be as strong as a lot of you are and especially your friend, your hero. I admire everyone that has given me advice and those that have moved on or reconciled. I don't want to be a bother and it seems like some of you are getting disgusted with me because of my confusion and asking the same questions, and I fully understand. I'm sorry for what I have put you through, but want to thank you for everything you have done for me.


This sounds a bit "victimish." No one here is disgusted with you. We may come off as harsh at times, but more often than not, it's what you need to hear. This is tough, we all have been there and we understand.

You have to focus on, deal with, and heal yourself first.

This is a helpful place, but each and every one of us is responsible for our own work we have to do to make it out of this mess and out doesn't mean saving your marriage, it means saving and improving you.

You shouldn't want to go back to the relationship that failed. You should want a new one with a new you.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 04:25 PM
Mach,

I didn't contact H about the pool. I said I would wait a couple of weeks before I did.

I don't plan on contacting him about the pool since I read the advice from everyone. It's just that Fixer has gone through what our spouses are going through and thought he would be the one to understand what goes on in a MLCer's mind a little bit.

I know that people on here don't want to see me in pain and I appreciate that 100%!

I will not ignore your post at all, I don't ignore anyone's post. You are right, I need to stop being the victim and start healing!!!

Thanks Mach!!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 04:37 PM
Trapt,

Ok, see this is where I really get confused. The book and people on this board say to show the changes to the WAS and they will notice. Show them this and that and see if it works, if it doesn't try something else.

Now you are saying of course it's not going to work. I showed my H that I could get things done without him and got nothing, I asked about the pool last month and he wanted to come help. He contacted me and was nice about it.

I don't plan on asking about the sand for the pool, because of the advice I got on here. Fixer was the only one that said he would like to be needed. So I changed my mind.

I'm glad that you understand that everyone moves through their own pain at their own time.

Also, they say to fake it until you make it and the WAS will notice changes in you. So it's not just for myself, it's suppose to be for my M right????

Thanks for understanding.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight

I know that people on here don't want to see me in pain and I appreciate that 100%!

I will not ignore your post at all, I don't ignore anyone's post. You are right, I need to stop being the victim and start healing!!!


ATTA GIRL GF!
Haven't posted here b4 but can definitely relate to being "stuck" Not sure this will help but it won't hurt.

I posted this a.m. on my thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1954288&page=12

A journal entry for me and a way to look at things?
Posted By: Celestial X 5 Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:30 PM
GF,

Please stay here, I can understand how you feel, but we can help your journey easier to understand. I know you`re confused. Keep up with your PMA everyday, this is for you.

Your changes will work. It takes time, a long time for your H to believe your changes.

xox
Celestial
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Ok, see this is where I really get confused. The book and people on this board say to show the changes to the WAS and they will notice. Show them this and that and see if it works, if it doesn't try something else.


GF this is confusing especially if you've been reading other boards. I think you have to keep in mind and what has been said by trapt and others here.

YOU have to do this for YOU. Strategies won't work. Strategies mean expectations. EXPECTATIONS will be your downfall and you will stay STUCK.

Beleive me when you make changes in YOU you be in a much better place.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight

Ok, see this is where I really get confused. The book and people on this board say to show the changes to the WAS and they will notice. Show them this and that and see if it works, if it doesn't try something else.


I get that and I do believe that the WAS's will and do notice the changes (in time, lots of it) but that is no guarantee that your marriage will be saved.

The book also says that there are no guarantees and that you could do everything "right" (what is that?) and still end up divorced.

Quote:
Also, they say to fake it until you make it and the WAS will notice changes in you. So it's not just for myself, it's suppose to be for my M right????


Notice? Yes. Come back? Who knows?

We can't control that. We can "set the stage" so to speak, but you're dealing with another person's free will here.

Change for you and you can't lose no matter what the outcome is.



Posted By: Fixer Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:55 PM
GF,

I didn't catch in your stich you spoke to a DB coach. If Jody told you not to contact your H then you need to listen to her.

I can tell you how to GAL. There are so many different ways, but it's important to start with at least one. Try walking a mile everyday. Take a stroll around the neighborhood and appreciate the beauty of nature. Go to the library and take out an exercising video to get in shape. Start a personal journal and fill it with the negative thoughts you have. Then go back and rewrite your sentences with positive thoughts.
Example:
Negative thought: I can't do anything without my H. I need him in my life.
Positive thought: I took care of the pool the best I can without H's help. I can do things without him. If H wants me in his life, well then he know where I am.

Also in this journal write a list of things you can do to GAL.
Fishing, walking, running, take up a craft, volunteer. There out there you need to find them.

I know your hurting and I feel bad about your stich. All I can do is give advice; good and bad.
Fixer
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 05:58 PM
Goodfight,

You think this is all about getting them back don't you?

You think these are all tricks and tactics to get them back?

That some work better than others?

That some are quicker?

That some are...magical?


Dissuade yourself of this notion.

These things ARE FOR YOU.

It just so happens, that when you get strong and self confident, you look attractive to others...and if the time is right and your MLC spouse is coming out of the tunnel, you no longer look pathetic, but strong, maybe strong enough to actually help him.

But...

That sounds like a lot of hooey, how could that possibly work?

There must be some trick to making...controlling another person into doing what you want...

I sure as hell wouldn't be posting here if I KNEW that trick. I'd have my own country. Jacklandia!
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/21/10 06:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
The book and people on this board say to show the changes to the WAS and they will notice. Show them this and that and see if it works, if it doesn't try something else.


So.....Is what you have been doing working ?

I mean seriously working ?


I would say that making the changes for you...


THEN.....



Seeing IF he noticed , sounds like a better plan....
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 04:09 AM
Goodfight,

You have had some amazing responses here today.

I really hope you think about them.

As far as some of your confusion…

Rejoice Ministries is a wonderful site. The ideas about standing, having faith, honoring your vows, are all wonderful things.

One of the things you should have noticed is that Charlene, while she was standing, also continued living…

Continued her life, while still remaining true to her vows and her ultimate goal of a restored M, but not letting it destroy who SHE was…

And if I remember correctly, she and Bob actually divorced and he was to marry someone else…

It can be done, both standing and DB…

This is a long road to walk…

One that has the potential to destroy you if you choose to just stand still through it…

I hope that you continue posting, growing, becoming less confused, really understanding what people have said to you…

I am sorry if you felt that I am frustrated with you.

I remember all too well being stuck. When I see that in other people, I become frustrated with myself and how long it took me to realize that I was the key to my own happiness…

And how long and hard I actually fought the idea...

Sometimes, I just want to reach through the computer and scream “don’t do what I did, get it sooner...”

But I can’t exactly do that…

Please, please, take some time, reread the threads and see what the consistent messages have been, not about a specific situation, but the overall situation…

Read the resources again, wrap your head around the CONCEPT of MLC…just don’t get stuck in the time frames…

Then find the thread here on MLC, maybe someone can link it up, about the journey of the LBS…
Ask questions if you have them, about the process…

Take a step out of the confusion…

Oh and I really like Fixer’s GAL suggestions…

Maybe think about some of those…
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 11:28 AM
Goodfight

Here's the link to the stages of LBS

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1970704&page=1

The whole thread is a good read but Lostforwords stages seemed to to hit it on the head for me.

When YOU find YOURSELF anew the world will open up to you.

Stay in the fight.
Posted By: Matt-14 Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 01:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
Goodfight,

That sounds like a lot of hooey, how could that possibly work?

There must be some trick to making...controlling another person into doing what you want...

I sure as hell wouldn't be posting here if I KNEW that trick. I'd have my own country. Jacklandia!



I vacationed in Jacklandia once......and its not a place you want to visit.

GF,

Everyone is giving you great information. You need to let go. It is definitly a hard thing to do. I tried many tactics in the beginning and I came across as manipulative and controlling. I don't think I just came across that way....I was. I think I set myself back a few years. wink

Matt
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 02:50 PM
GF, I understand the confusion you feel. I've been there. What helped me most with it was the reading and understanding what a MLC is all about. The things I didn't understand or was confused over I came to the board and I asked. Sometimes the same question more than once. Sometimes it took a little time to process the information.

I was confused as you were whether I should handle issues that came up that my H used to do, or ask for his help to show that he was still needed. The information I read lead in two directions. One said handle it by yourself, the other said show him that he is still needed. I finally found the correct words and way to ask my question as follows...

Quote:
Right now I'm very confused on another issue. I've read that we're to show our MLCer (actually for ourselves) that we're capable of carrying on just fine without them. That they are attracted to strength and confidence and to light the way home. I've read in other places where the MLCer needs to be needed. How do you know which way to be with them?

I don't need my H as I'm going to be fine without him. I just want him because I love him.



The answer from a very wise dber was...

Quote:
They gravitate towards strength and independence. They want us to go on w/our lives and learn how to do things while they are in la la land. During their early travels, they want us to cut them loose so that they do not have any responsibilities nor feel guilty about not doing things for us. As you travel along, if you point blank ask your h to assist you, he may very well say no, choose to ignore your request or just plain forget about it.

However, as they travel further along the path, there will be times when they will actually offer up to assist you...thus the white knight rescue. By this time, you aren't sure whether to ask for assistance or say you'll do it yourself. You are then just as confused as they are as to the boundaries that are playing out between the two of you. Sometimes, you have to follow their lead. If the mlcer offers to assist you w/something and it's not crossing into your boundary, then accept...but be sure to thank the mlcer for doing the deed.

Now, this is where it will get sticky. Once the mlcer has offered to assist a spouse, the spouse automatically "assumes" that he/she is waking up and can call on the mlcer for assistance at any time....NADA! Accept the mlcer's moment of clarity and leave them alone after that....no expectations. Allow the mlcer time to digest what he/she has done and for he/she to see that you are not going to pursue or have high expectations. Pressure, guilt and expectations will send them running to the hills.

Keep in mind, there will be some things that you will need to ask him directly to assist you with and cannot wait for him to pony up. But, as a rule, you know your h better than we do....you will know when to ask for assistance and when not to.....it's all in following his lead and your gut instinct.


GF, I hope this helps you as much as it helped me. You have to show him you have the strength to build the path that leads home. That same strength will see you through if your H decides not to follow it.

Take care. (((Hugs)))
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 03:28 PM
Hi True,

I read your post and don't worry, you are just at the beginning you seem like a very strong person and will get through this and out of the stuck part.

I've been stuck for a very long time. Please don't do what I have done. Keep on going, you are doing great!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 03:34 PM
Got it Trapt! I'm just so mad at myself, because I didn't read the book (didn't know about it), at the beginning of this mess. So I did all of the wrong things!!!! I could have done better and wish that I found the book and this site sooner!

I sometimes believe if I had all of the info I have now I would be in a better place for myself, and my kids, and also my M.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 03:38 PM
Thanks Celestial, and I'm sorry. I'm just having a rough time and you give me hope by saying it will take a long time for H to believe in my changes.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 03:46 PM
Fixer, no Jody told me that way back, I haven't spoken to her in such a long long time. I can't afford to. She doesn't know about how H came to do the water off of the cover of the pool or anything. And you were right he was acting very nice and I think it was because he felt needed.

That's why I was going to contact him in a few weeks about the sand for the pool. And that's why I wanted your opinion since you went through a MLC and know how if feels.

So no need to apologize for anything. I appreciate all of your input and advice! I really thought that H would feel good about me asking him a question to something I have no clue about because he did before, but the rest of the great people on this board are telling me not to, so I guess I won't.

I will always appreciate any of your advice and look forward to hearing some more of it.

Thanks Again!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 03:59 PM
JTB,

Yes, I did come on this site hoping that it was about saving your M and getting them back. But did I think it was to use tricks or tactics NO.

And yes there are people that get back faster than others.

And even though I feel weak without him, I would help him and anyone else that needed it. I'm strong enough for that, I really believe it. I can't help that I'm still sad over this and can't detach as much as I would like and others on here would like me to.

Believe me JTB I would do it in a heartbeat if I could. I don't let the kids or H see me crying anymore. That has all stopped a while ago. Yes, I did cry when he changed his mind about the dating thing at the end of March but I was alone. I did not beg him or anything like that when he said it wouldn't be a good idea through text. I just said I understood how he felt and that I wasn't sure of how I felt either.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 04:04 PM
I'm trying Mach. I'm really sorry, just having a bad time the past couple of days. I do put an act on in front of him even if he doesn't notice.....like if I'm in the yard when he comes for D13, I just pretend I don't see him sitting in his car.

Months ago I would have went up to him and started to argue or the opposite and ask how he was doing etc.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 04:26 PM
Cat, I wish you could come through the computer and shake me. I really do. LOL

I know people are here to help, and I don't want to be stuck, I really don't.

And yes, you are right. They were divorced and she did go on with her life. I have to keep that in my mind!

Just wish I was as strong as most of the people are on this site and was able to detach a lot sooner!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 06:47 PM
Question for everybody.......does there have to be an OW/OM in the picture if someone is going through a MLC?
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 06:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Question for everybody.......does there have to be an OW/OM in the picture if someone is going through a MLC?


There doesn't HAVE to be.....

Just seems to be very prevalent in MLC situations.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/22/10 07:23 PM
Here's another question? LOL Does anyone go or have gone to card readers? Just curious.

Thanks Mach......Don't know if H has an OW the past 3 weeks or not but not up until then. I was just wondering. Wasn't sure if it was all part of the MLC or not.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/23/10 06:33 PM
Received this from a person that suffered from depression and became an alcoholic but is now a recovered alcoholic and thought maybe this would help some of us out. They say that MLC has depression through out the stages so here goes:

The following I am going to say might hurt a bit, but you asked me for an honest answer so I'll give it too you.

Why can I say this and know so little about you, and doctors are probably telling you that you are depressed. It is becasue of your question. At the heart of your question you are seeking understanding of your husbands actions, which are plan and simple driven by depression. Something you find hard to understand or get. This tells me that you don't have depression.

Because people like me, and hte sounds of it like your husband do suffer depression. It is an evil mental decease. And it is so hard to describe it, every persons depression is unique to them, like their own personal hell. But it does have some similarities. I really won't go into details, as it could be the basis of a novel for each person who ever where to try and describe their own personal experience of depression. SO imagine what it would be like for me to describe it to anyone, when I only have some vague pictures of what it is and how it works, and those impressions I am afraid are unique to me.

But at its most basic K, what I think might help you is to try and understand what is going on generally within your husband.

At its simplist level your husband is clinically depressed and is Insane. Yeap he is 100% dingbat mad. His brain is no longer functioning at anything like what you would understand is a normal setting. At its most crazy level. An Example, its silly one, but its just for illustration.
If for the last 12years your husband was offered a bungee jump, and he is scared of heights and is not that type of trill seeking person, he right/normally would decline.
In his current state he would say yes, adn he would do it. And you know something he would have no f***** idea why he is! But to him at that time when he was asked, seemed like yeap, thats a perfecttly normal thing to do.
Why has he done this, you ask yourself, its not like him. But he never does these type of things..And you quite rightly would ask him. And if he was been honest, he wouldn't know really himself, but it seems like a good idea!

We both know its dumb, and here is the evil part of the insanity of this decease, part of him knows this as well. But he feels compelled to do it. And do know somethign he does it!

K I know above sounds crazy and it is crazy but it just a simple extreme example of what is going on in your husbands brain. If we said your husband was normal so his brain is 100% normal, and he is then the man you know, love and want to be with.
When you go deep into the pit of depression your normal functioning brain goes into decline, and get replaced by for want of a better word by your INSANE brain, and this is the depressed side. AS this side wins more and more, your husband for want of a better word is slowly turning into another person. (This depressed person will be unique to him and will have its own unique destructive drivers, but trust me these drives are destructive.)

At it most basic, depression as an insanity, want to isolate you, it tells you know one loves you, it tells you you are not worth loving, and that the world would be better off if you where dead. Anyone who trys to tell you different is lying to you, and really they are only out to get something from you, so f*** them, and hurt them before they can hurt you.

Depression is only one of the very few known mental disorders that ultimately wants is sufferer dead. And it will do everything in it power to kill you.

And do you want to know the really evil evil part of this decease. As the depression grows stronger and takes over more...There still is always in you a declining % of your brain that is normal. And it comes breifly comes to life, and its like your normal being is come back to normal, and you try adn stop whats going on...But as the depression takes more control, those period become breifer and breifer...But this side of you brain is always inside you telling you this is wrong, all these thougths are crap, and that you need to get help...But because you depression is now controling 80% of you brain. It lets you think the thoughts, but it doesn't let you do anything about it...So now you are f*****. Because you depresive side is just torturing your sane side of you brain...

Why does it do this, f*** knows. But it does. Now that I am recovered, I think i know why it does this. Because I nearly committed suicide. And you know something I was close. And I think the coup de grace with depression, is that its not the depressed sick side of your brain that makes you commit suicide. Its that final sliver of sane brain that you have left functioning. And for just a little while is get control. And it makes what is quite a sane decision. To end it all.

Why is this sane. Well if you know all the things you are doing are wrong, and you know you are causing pain to your nearest and dearest. And you can see there seems to be f*** all you can do about it. And your depression has sold you the lie that its all your fault and that your a worthless shite bag. Well really why not end it all. You stop you pain, and more importantly, you stop the pain you are casuing all the other people around you, and they will be better off without you, and they have a chance to be free of this shite head call yourself.

Wow, I think I went on there for a bit. But K that is just the tip of the iceberg called my depression, your husbands will be something different. But it will be running a similiar course.

He is slowly losing all control of this thougths and actions. So him running away in a strange depressed view of the world, and act of love. Cause he is trying to stop casuinig any pain to others. But he is insane in the truest sense of the word.

And I am afraid this is where I kikc you in the teeth, there is absolutetly nothing you or anyone else can do about it. NOTHING. You or anyone close to him can only help him when he admits he's in the grips of the horrible decease, and he needs help. When / If you ever get that call, answer it and Help him. But until that point you have to save yourself, and you have to tell him you are there any time he wants to make that call. But your not going to live tru this agian with him. But that you will do everything in your power to help him the minute he ask for it. And you gotta tell him you still love him, and you know this is not him, this is his is Insane decease called depression making him do all these stupid things.

And then you pray, that his sane brain was listening and something got tru. The you wait for a call. Either for Help, or to inform you he's dead.

That is where your at. Sorry but you asked. And I've tried to convey what I can. I could go on for hours. But this man you called your husband is no longer with you. A man with a depressive demon is talking to you, and preforming all these hurtful actions. THIS is not the man you married. That man is in there he's very tired, he's very alone, and he is shitting a brick...

BUT take away my last part, Depression goes in Cycles, and it Break! He will get better he will be back as teh man you knew and loved. Its a case of time, and him asking for help.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/27/10 12:10 AM
Well, H had D13 for the weekend and asked her what was new? She said nothing. He then asked her does she like mommy's boyfriend and D13 said Mommy doesn't have a boyfriend. Then H said to her well, that's not what I heard. Why do you have a girlfriend? And H said no, all I do during the week is sit here and either eat or sleep.

Now all of you know I don't have a boyfriend. WTH was he thinking? Can't figure out where he would ever hear that, I don't go anywhere.

But I'm finally doing something with myself. I'm going away in June for the weekend with my brother and his wife. I guess it's a start.
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/27/10 11:23 AM
GF,

Your trip is something to look forward to. I hope it is something fun:)

Don’t worry where he got the idea, it was just him checking to see where you are…

If you had a boyfriend, it would allieviate some of his guilt…

Keep working on you…

The letter you received, while harsh, was definitely the truth. Depression is an ugly ugly thing.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/27/10 03:57 PM
Cat, that person went through it for 4yrs. He was trying to explain to me what my H is going through. I thought maybe it would help some people here too. To understand what their WAS's are going through.

Is that all you think that it would allieviate some of his guilt? Just wondering because my GF who knows him very well said that she thought he was wondering where he stands.....if there is any hope in me taking him back or working on our M.

I know that none of us can read minds....that's for sure but people on here would know more about what H might be thinking since they are going through this also, or have gone through it and reconciled and their S's told them how they felt.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/27/10 04:50 PM
H hasn't paid on his part of our loan that was due on the 25th. He has been on time and before the time it was due for the past 6 months.

I don't want a late fee, can't afford it.

Anyone have any suggestions how I can word this to him without him getting mad.

When I use to text him about it just as a reminder he got mad and said he knew when it was due and there was no reason for me to remind him each month. That was six months ago, so he started paying it on time. Now, here we go again.

Don't know what to say without him getting mad since we have been texting back and forth with civil conversation.

Thanks
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 01:06 PM
GF,

I decided to pull this over here, because I didn’t want to hijack SA’s thread anymore…

First,

Thank you for the birthday wishes. smile It is actually going to be a very good day I think, although I have never made a big deal about my birthday. Just another day. But 38, well it is the new 28 so maybe it will be fun…LOL

Now something I wanted to address…

I know I have been sort of tough on you…

I won’t apologize for that…

I am just sort of blunt most days…

One thing I have noticed is that you keep commenting on you “doing things wrong” because of your faith, or what seems logical, or for whatever reason…

Please try to get that out of your head…

It is self defeating…

We ALL make/made mistakes…

It is part of this process… shocked

There is no one size fits all answer, what works for one person, but not for ten others, still might be worth giving a shot, you just never know…

However, that being said…

It is ok to have questions and concerns and to contemplate different courses of action. And just because it doesn’t work, does not mean it was WRONG.

It becomes wrong when you have LEARNED it didn’t work and you keep REPEATING it anyway. crazy

I also realize that the Faith thing can be confusing. Because faith tells us to love unconditionally and to see with the eyes of Christ, treat others as you would like to be treated, etc…

Which, on a very logical level, can seem to go against DB principals of GAL, Detatching, No Contact…

God has a plan for each of us and we are not privy to what that plan is…

While He may not always be seeming to answer our prayers, because we aren’t getting the results that we want, He is taking care of us in the way that He sees fit, IF we allow it to happen…

And it most certaintly does not happen in our time… frown

I was told once that I was behaving as if I was trying to push a cart full of bricks, and to stop because they were not my bricks and it was not my cart to push…

Before that, I had tried many different things, to see how H responded…without any sort of result that brought me closer to the goal that I thought I wanted…

I was stuck. Stuck in a place of unhappiness, loneliness, with very little direction as to where my life was going. But that cart full of bricks thing sort of stuck with me…I realized that I had no choice…I had to let go, to hand it over to God and to TRUST that whatever the outcome, even if it was not the one that I THOUGHT I wanted, that the outcome would be the best outcome for me and would be in His plan.

Life started coming back together for me. Slowly. I learned to be happy with me. I learned to live for me and for my S, and I just let myself seep out into the world.

Because of that, I am no longer lonely. I have some wonderful friends, people who are supportive in me in ways that I never had before in my life. And although, I have chosen to no longer stand, my H, has had some moments of clarity and I have received some of the answers that I was looking for.

Because I took a step back, I have been allowed to really see what he is going through internally. While it is not daily, I have been given the opportunity to listen to him, to hear his pain, his dreams, his fears, his guilt, and even understand a bit (while I still am not so sure that he does), what he is trying to overcome.

He came to me, out of the blue, not because I reached out to him.

Trust me, it is a mental illness, no matter what anyone else says. It is the most painful thing I have ever had to watch someone go through. It is sad and scary and when you read people’s words who say you don’t want to know what is going on in the MLCer’s head, believe them.

Ok I rambled…LOL (maybe old age is setting in early) wink

My point, was that because of my Faith, faith in God, NOT necessarily in Marriage, but in God and in His power, things that I thought would never happen, without me doing SOMETHING to bring them about, have happened.

God does NOT want us to suffer. He does NOT want us to be miserable, especially in the name of Faith. There is a balance that He wants us to find. Part of that means letting go of things that we can’t control and trusting that the outcome will be what ever it is supposed to be.

Think about that…and have a wonderful Cat’s birthday. We can all celebrate by doing something special for ourselves.

Me...

I'm getting jewelery grin
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 01:21 PM
Originally Posted By: cat04
I'm getting jewelery grin
I like that.

Happy Birthday CAT
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 06:04 PM
Okay everyone, I guess I messed up once again on DB. H told someone in front of D13 that he wasted $20 on a dating site about a month and 1/2 ago. I blew it off because I was doing the no contact thing. Usually I would have texted him or called him crying. He also asked her if she liked my boyfriend and she said Mommy doesn't have one, and he said that's not what I heard and she said well, she doesn't. Then she said do you have a girlfriend and he said no. All I do is work, sleep, and eat. And that she could come over anytime if she didn't believe him.

I have ignored the things he has said to D13 cause he knows it will get back to me (she tells all and I don't even ask her).

Anyways I got this sick feeling inside of me yesterday afternoon and went onto Match.com and there he was. Well, I cried cried and cried. Then I called H and left a message saying he needs to get the rest of his stuff out of the house (wasn't crying) and we need to settle things on loans that he hasn't been paying his half of etc. I called him by his screen name so that's how he knew I knew he was on there.

So then he said he wants the house sold, and I told him no that we get to stay there until D13 is 18, and then he also said that he wasn't paying anymore of his part of the bills because he is broke (a big lie). He said he doesn't consider himself married and could do what he wants cause we are separated. I said, that I was following our vows and that we are still M and that he would be committing adultery and he said so what. Then he comes off with he wishes he would just die already and I said so do I and hung up. I begged God to forgive me because I didn't mean it at all.

So then I call and just apologized for saying that because I don't want anything to happen to him. Didn't go over well, and I just said that we were together a month ago and you said you loved me and he said that he didn't say it.

So I thought some more of course and thought, what do I do? I don't want a D and now I blew it. So I texted H and told him that maybe he was right about selling the house but by the end of August I'm thinking of moving to FL if I'm not in a relationship by then (which I know I won't be, because of standing).

And I don't know where he gets off thinking that I need him or want him i was just want what was was best for our child. And I think its funny how he thinks he means so much to me. I was just trying to fix things for my D13, and not to worry I don't need him for anything. And that today really opened my eyes for me and D13. Thanks have a nice life.

In the text I also told him he needs to be more secretive about his porn on the computer and the condoms that D13 found in his dresser a few months back. Or she won't be seeing him anymore.

It just seemed that all of his bull started when I stopped contact and he kept pushing my buttons and I guess he finally won.

Where do I go from here? I really want to save this marriage. Or did I blow it again big time?
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I blew it off because I was doing the no contact thing. Usually I would have texted him or called him crying.


While you did great by not calling him, you didn’t really blow it off either…

Did you?

Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Anyways I got this sick feeling inside of me yesterday afternoon and went onto Match.com and there he was.


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
he kept pushing my buttons and I guess he finally won.


Yes he did…

Because you let him…

Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Where do I go from here? I really want to save this marriage.


That is not what you told your H.

What you told your H was full of threats, manipulation, and attempts to control…

Where do you go from here?

Well, GF, you made this bed, now you lie in it for a while…

Your M, the M you had with this man, is dead…

That does not mean that there can’t be a new and better M in the future, but at the pace you are going, it isn’t going to happen.

Right now, I see you as a Divorce Statistic, not a Reconciliation Story…

This is not because you stopped having contact, this is because the continued contact you do have is still full of anger, desperation, and despair.

You have had so many wonderful people trying to get through to you for a year…

I wish I knew what else I could possibly say to make you see that this is not about your M, this is not about your H and what he is or is not doing, this is ALL ABOUT YOU…

Goodluck Goodfight…
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 07:03 PM
Cat, what I meant was I didn't contact him for over a month and 1/2 when he started the whole thing about being on a dating site, and asking our D13 if I had a BF.

I let it go for that long, and yes you are so right. I blew it. I wasn't thinking at all. I just got so upset and was devestated all over again.

I thought I wasn't suppose to tell him that I wanted to save the M. This is where I get confused.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 07:08 PM
I really am sorry to everyone, please forgive me. I thought I was on the right track again, but I slid off. Cat, I guess you are right. I won't be able to reconcile at the rate I'm going at, and I'm sorry for not listening and I know most of you on the site are sick and tired of me and I fully understand.

So I guess, I will pick myself up the best that I can and try to go on in life. It's just harder on me because I'm not a strong person like the rest of you are and I admire everyone on here.

I pray to become the people that you are and have become.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 07:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
It's just harder on me because I'm not a strong person like the rest of you are


GF....


Really?



It is not because you aren't...

It is because you don't allow yourself to be ...

The choice is yours....

You can wallow in your own misery...

Or you can get up, dust off, and do something about it...

Nobody here wants to see you fail...

My advice to you right now , is to stop being the victim, reread this thread, and all of the great advice you have ignored, and start becoming the person you need to be...


I will say though....this pity party needs to end for your sanity...
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 04/30/10 08:16 PM
I am in full aggreance with cat and mach.

GF, I'm sorry, I dont' have much time to add anything, what's been said already, is well off enough, go back, and re-read. While doing so, analyze the person you've been through all this, and how many time something similar has happened!

You need change within yourself. I don't think you're happy with yourself as a person and facilitating it on your H.

And above you said, you only want to save your marriage for your the sake of your daughter? Wrong way to go.

Back to the drawing board, and review why your here.

None of what I say here is to be mean. GF if there is a sliver of hope, you need to make some personal observations. At the same time, you need to ask yourself hard core why you want to save this marriage.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 05/01/10 12:26 AM
GF

Everyone here started out at probably the lowest point they had ever been in their lives. As an LBS you are fighting severe attachment to someone you have shared a life with and love. Some of us (ME) even were in copdependent relationships that are even harder to pull out of a nosedive...

BUT YOU CAN DO IT. You had the courage to come here, reach down inside and find your inner hero. That hero is going to save YOU and your M.

YOU have to come first.

Can you think of a person more deserving than You that needs saving?

Here's some imagry to help. You are the beacon, the light house, the light that shines in the distance and the brighter you shine the better H can find his way back to you. But you have to go on ahead with out him for now. And you can. You're the stronger one aren't you? You're here.

You're living this and these people here are trying to help. But it is painful to be here and work on this. Do you want to give up? Ask yourself. Are you quitting on this. You need to have your goal firmly in your grasp here GF. WHAT DO YOU WANT?

Another analogy that might help you were in the water with H and he is drowning and you're trying so HARD to save him but he's so scared he's crawling on top of you and now you both are drowning.

You need to swim away for the shore and reach your hand back from solid ground and pull H out.

You are the stronger person here GF, get stronger, get better.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/02/10 04:04 PM
Thanks everyone. True, you are so right. I let his illness get to me and now I'm going down with him. In the book and says be careful this doesn't happen but it has with me.

But any suggestions anyone after I texted him what I did...what do I do now...anything? Do I let him know I didn't mean it and that it was just out of anger or do I just let it go?

To everyone else on the board that has been so kind and patient with me, I swear to God I'm not having a pity party. I hate feeling like this, I don't feel sorry for myself, I'm just clinically depressed and they keep changing my meds and this is a hard road to get out of this depression.

Sometimes I feel I pushed H out and do blame myself, so it is not a pity party and I truly want to get better for me and my kids. My friends tell me this is what my H wants to do to me, blame me for everything and you know what he won cause now he has me believing it.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 05/02/10 05:58 PM
Goodfight

I am going to let someone who has been down the road help you with how you communcate yourself to a better situation with H.

There is a time for you to look in the mirror and ask yourself some tough questions about your part in the M. But IMO you have to get stable first. H blames you for everything because it's easier to do that than look where he needs to be looking...

Inside himself. You just focus on you.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 01:25 PM
True,

I have been going over things all the time in my part of the M. And I know I have made mistakes. I do realize my part in it. I have even told H in the past about the things I said or done that didn't help M out at all.

Even if he wanted to try to work on things, I doubt it would happen. His family (which he cares deeply about and what they think of him), is in the middle of this mess because of his lies. Now remember they are the ones that wanted us to get married, on and on. Now they are telling H to find someone else and he will be better off. So it's like it is a battle that I will not win. H is different than other people when it comes to his family and what they think of him. Where I wouldn't care what my family thought of us trying to work things out.

Thanks True, trying to focus on me. Just wish I didn't let him push my buttons and that I didn't send that text now. But I can't take it back, the damage is done.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 02:08 PM
GF

You fell down. We all have done it and will do it again as we learn. We can talk all day on these forums and I am convinced you will never find a better place to get advice and what you need to make it through this.

The fact remains that we have to experience this stuff to learn. Oh yeah you know when you make a mistake because of what you have heard here but you still have to make it(most likely) to know why it has to be so...

I had to experience the pain of being too close to W before I learned I had to detach...

I had to experience the pain of W shutting me down to know I can't control...

I had to experience the pain of knowing details about OM before I stopped snooping...

I had to experience the loss of my W and my M to know that what she is doing is because of her own pain and not to hurt me...before I could STAND calmly and be the beacon in my M.

Everything you do that causes you pain will point you in the direction you need to go.

The pain hurts but it is also your friend and it is speaking to you if you will listen.

Be strong GF...live well out of respect for you
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:05 PM
Do I text H and let him know that I didn't mean what I said about saving the M just for our D13, that I sent last week? Or do I just let it still lie for awhile longer?
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Just wish I didn't let him push my buttons and that I didn't send that text now. But I can't take it back, the damage is done.
So now you want to know if you should send him another message. Why did you write this above?
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Or do I just let it still lie for awhile longer?


I believe tat would be the best route.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:27 PM
OP, cause I don't know if he thinks I don't want this saved or not for us and kids, I texted him saying that I was only trying to save M for D13.

dday, help.....don't get what you mean. LOL Having a rough one here at work.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:38 PM
GF

DDAY and myself were saying the same thing. DO NOT TEXT HIM!

Stop worrying about him. You are in the middle of the ocean drowning right now, you have to save yourself first.

Or do you want to drown?
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:48 PM
Originally Posted By: OldPilot
Stop worrying about him. You are in the middle of the ocean drowning right now, you have to save yourself first.


VERY WELL PUT! wink
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:50 PM
Ok OP. Can't think straight right now for some reason. Have a lot on my mind. I've been so out of it for so long that I need so much stuff done around the house and have been thinking where the heck to start.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:52 PM
GF.....

This really has to stop.....


And I am not talking about for your marriage either....

This needs to stop for you.....

Stop finding excuses for YOU to make yourself miserable...

Stop blaming him, meds, and all of that crap on why YOU can't get a grasp on yourself...


If you need to seek professional help, then do so.

OP is right....you are a hole in the Titanic right now, looking for enough water to go down....


Do this for you GF.....
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 06:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Ok OP. Can't think straight right now for some reason. Have a lot on my mind. I've been so out of it for so long that I need so much stuff done around the house and have been thinking where the heck to start.
Start by picking one task to do. And do it. Start to finish and check it off of your list.

Tomorrow pick something else. ..... and so on.
Posted By: dday101798 Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 07:04 PM
This is all very stable and accurate advice, GF.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 07:17 PM
Thanks guys! Going to start it on Saturday. I work both jobs Thursday and Friday and tonight I'm actually taking kids to go grocery shopping. First time in a long time. S19 and D13 have been going for me, and yes, this has to stop. All of you are so right, I need to stop drowning and go on with life.

I'm in counseling but this counselor is pro-divorce so I guess I will have to just tell her that I want to work on myself from now on for me and stop her from telling me to get rid of him and find someone else. Either she is going to help me like the rest of you are or I will be changing counselors. Need to get help for myself first then worry about H and M.

Thanks
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 07:23 PM
The counselor that I'm seeing also told me about a site vikki@runawayhusbands.com.....so I go on and it tells you to go on with your life basically, and forget about H/W that left you. Some of the stuff is to work on yourself like this site is but in no way do they tell you to go back to the WAS. I don't think she gets it, that I want to work on myself first and to stand and save my M. No matter how many times I tell her, she just blows it off and tells me to find another man.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 07:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Thanks guys! Going to start it on Saturday. I work both jobs Thursday and Friday and tonight I'm actually taking kids to go grocery shopping. First time in a long time. S19 and D13 have been going for me, and yes, this has to stop. All of you are so right, I need to stop drowning and go on with life.


Seriously ?

An excuse to not start right now ?

All of the things you can do right now that will help the most, begin with an outlook on life change, that can begin RIGHT NOW....

You just have to look past yourself enough to see that.....

Enough of the excuses GF....Really....

It can be as simple as choosing to NOT be a victim of this, and start becoming a survivor of this....

Then one day, you will see that you are not only surviving, you are thriving.....

Question for you....

How do you envision the rest of your life right now ?

Do you want to be talked off of the ledge , every day, for the rest of it ?
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 09:06 PM
Quote:

No matter how many times I tell her, she just blows it off and tells me to find another man.


In the most kindly way possible tell your C to go F herself.
She isn't supposed to live vicariously through YOUR life.
She is supposed to help you get over some tough shitt and help your realize crap about yourself. Not push her agenda on you.

PS -Mach is right...why are you putting this off? If it is a good thing to do...to it YESTERDAY.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 09:22 PM
GF

You are getting good advice I saw your post on my thread about you contacting H.

You got the answer I would give here.

Everyone is trying to help you see that YOU are in control of this pain. You can't see that yet. But you are. I have been using this metaphor to describe my own healing.

Pain is actually your friend. It will lead to the right place for YOU. You are so full of pain right now why? Because of the interaction and attachement to H. SEE? What is your pain telling you? Your pain will speak to you if you listen.

interaction=attachement=pain

detachment=healing

=strength=loving detachment

loving detachment=acceptence=forgiveness

GF you HAVE to do this! You'll be stuck if you don't.

You'll be no good to YOU, Your kids or your M. Once you start it gets easier you gain so much power within yourself when you take control. Believe me.

What to do:

Don't contact H for any reason.
Try not to think about H
Occupy your time with something that takes your mind off H
Don't get on FB or any other place to learn about H
Don't talk to kids about H
Keep yourself from sitautions in which you're reminded of H,
No music that makes you sad.
Put rubber band on your wrist and when you think about H give yourself a sting with it. ( I actually did this for a few days)

This is what I had to do and the first week was hell and I counted each day, one day at a time, each day I got stronger...each day I felt more power rising inside me.

Here is the clincher though are you ready? Listen to me now....

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EXPECTATIONS OF H

Did you hear me? I said that VERY loudly so you would.

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS FOR YOU.

Do this now GF don't wait you're losing days toward your healing.

Do it NOW.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 05/04/10 09:35 PM
GF - Taking the kids and grocery shopping is a good start. Break out of the same ole, same ole and try some new foods that you all would enjoy. You'll all be together to give input.

The guys are right. Don't wait for Sat. Get a list going. Make sure to include things that won't take a lot of time to accomplish on your busy days. Satisfaction comes from crossing jobs completed off the list even the little ones. Get the kids involved too.

GF, it's about you now.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 03:47 PM
Mach, thought I was starting by going to the grocery store. As far as the 2 jobs go, I can't do any house stuff on those days because I leave one job and drive to the next. One if full time and the other is well almost full time (6 to 7hrs. per night).

I really wasn't making excuses. It took a lot for me to go last night. I wasn't functioning that much at all as far as home goes.

And no, I don't want to be talked off the ledge every day. I really want to get better.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 03:50 PM
JTB, that's exactly what the counselor has been telling me. She even sent articles from that site to the house and told me I should go on the dating site that H is on.

What I get a kick out of with her is she has been married for about 30 some years, maybe more.

But she wants me to just give up my M.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 04:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight


But she wants me to just give up my M.



I'm not agreeing with her....

Do YOU think that moving FORWARD with YOUR LIFE is giving up ?

Little things GF...

Even as small as taking a different route between those jobs...

Change can be as large or small as you want it....

Small change will lead to bigger changes as time moves on.

Outlook is what matters.

What is YOUR view on things.....





BTW ? I would have told her to F off too....
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 04:01 PM
Yes, Gritt I got it. Very good suggestions on how to keep my mind off of H.

You are right about the attachment and interaction with H. The hard part is I hear about him everyday from our D13.

She is also going through a terrible time. She wants him home too. But anyway she talks to him by phone almost everyday and if she doesn't hear from him she asks me why do I think he didn't call her. And there I go again thinking about him.

I can't tell her not to talk to me about him, because she is very confused about everything. I want her to know she can come and talk to me about anything in her life.

Sometimes I think it is a lot easier if there aren't kids involved to get detachment.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 04:02 PM
Thanks SA. Got a list going now.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 04:09 PM
Yes Mach, that's what I thought moving forward was giving up.
But I know now, that it's not giving up.

You asked me what my view on things are.....what do you mean by that?

And I love how the guys would have told C to F off....LOL

Like I said before, either she is going to help me for myself to get better or I will not be going anymore to see her.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 05/05/10 08:30 PM
I suspect, though I am not sure, that your c wants you to stop thinking about your h and perhaps do something diff for a change. She does want to help you for yourself but YOU want HER to help you save the M. There's a disconnect somewhere in that story...

As for your d, show up for her fully please. Do you wonder why SHE obsesses about why her dad doesn't call her, or what he's doing? My d13 would not do that if her dad didn't call her. She'd assume he was busy or not smart enough to know what a cool kid she is and he'd be a loser to miss out on all this. Do you Wonder who your d learned that needy behavior from? Doesn't it bother you to know you taught her this? You must change and let HER see that. Forget your h for now. Let your D see the changes so she knows that wounds like this are not fatal or eternal. YOU MUST TEACH HER THIS. Otherwise she's programmed to "be depressed" like both her parents...

Please, listen to the song "Because of You" by kelly Clarkson to see how your d may feel in 10 years. I do tire of your excuses, no offense. If you don't think you're life is worth or deserving of better than this, then for God's sake, do it for your d. LIVE A LIFE WORTH LIVING, and stop thinking about your H OR YOUR M...

Yes you can detach and GAL and not give up on the M but making it about saving the m is NOT detaching AND IT IS NOT GAL...can't you see that by now? That's why I don't get your anger at the C. I suspect you wanted a magic answer from her too....hence the focus on YOUR H's condition, MLC and whether there's an OW, and for her to show you "how to save the M" etc. No one, NO ONE can "save your M" b/c we don't know if it's salvagable. We don't know! It might be, someday. IT's not right now. You are not in a position to make it work anyhow. You are not well enough anyway! I mean, The level of focus you have on him at this point in time, frightens me. You're not bringing anything to the table as a partner, so why would he go back to you if things are going to be like this anyhow? What's better now, than before? Why reconcile, from HIS standpoint? Are you guys having fun times he misses out on or are you morose and needy and do you guilt him when you meet up? You think that's an attracting tool? FYI-it's not. But please, Your daughter...please think of her A LOT more. Detach and GAL and a PMA NOW...and leave the M in God's hands. This really is not complicated. If you must speak to your h about your d or money issues, do so calmly and do not engage in angry discourse. The calmer you are, the stronger you'll appear, as it's a control thing. The one yelling is the one losing. But don't contact him if you don't HAVE to and IF and when you do, keep in on the topic at hand such as the financial aspects or the d. NOTHING ELSE and absolutely stop threatening and stop apologizing. No R talk of any kind for the near future.
j
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/06/10 01:56 PM
25, D13 was very very close to her father, and he called her every night. That is why she was upset, because she had called him and he didn't answer his cell and then turned it off. She was suppose to see him the following day and that's why she was calling him. But he never called, told her he was busy and that's why she got upset.

She is very smart and called him a liar after she stopped crying. I told her that he wouldn't lie to her (of course I lied), and maybe he wasn't feeling well or something. Once she calmed down she said "Oh well".

Yes, I probably contribute to her being obsessed about him but trust me they were always side by side and he always answered her calls and told her when we were together how much he loved her and since the separation and how much he misses her.

All of a sudden he starts acting funny, and she knows this. She just said last night that she was hurt because he didn't call her and she had to call him. She asked me, what is more important than me that daddy has to do anymore. I just told her that right now he isn't himself, and to give him time and he hopefully will get better and be his old self again towards her.

She was fine with that. Except she told me she is getting tired of him lying to her about not having money for her, and other stuff that goes on that she catches him in.

I don't want a magic answer from C. Although in the beginning of this mess, yes I expected her to tell me what the heck was wrong with him. I know now that one can do that now. It's just that she is always telling me to find another man to take my mind off of H and that he is not worth fighting for and that will help me forget about him. To start dating etc.

She was helping me with my panic attacks though. So that is working. She tells me stories all of the time about WAS's that don't return and that in all of her years of practice that if they don't return within a few months they aren't coming back. So with the panic attacks she helps, but telling me to find someone else and to date I believe is wrong.

Like I said, I will go to my next appointment and tell her I need her to help me make steps to help myself and to please not discuss H or anyone else's sitch. Cause that is basically what she does and it only gets my mind going again on H.

How does that sound?
Posted By: cat04 Re: MLC or not? - 05/06/10 03:09 PM
GF,

Personally, I would find another counselor. I honestly don’t know how those stories help with your panic attacks but…

Moving forward is not moving on or giving up…

Moving forward is taking responsibility for you, for your life, and making yourself a better, stronger person…

So that eventually you can move on…

Out of MLC land, into a future that is full and bright and shining…

With a healed heart and head…

Who will be in that future with you…

No one knows right now…

But that is way down the road, over the hill, and around the bend, which is way to far forward to see right now…

As far as your D, that is something else you can’t control…

Her R with her dad is her R with her dad. While you can try to help her understand, that is really all you can do…

She is old enough to have a good idea of what she sees as normal and abnormal behavior and while it sucks, that too is something that they will have to work out…

All you can do is be there for her and be strong for her, and do your best to help her deal with her emotions regarding it all…
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/06/10 03:46 PM
Cat,

her stories don't help me with my panic attacks, she tells me what to do while having one and how to control them.

And yes it does suck for my D. She will tell me that he is in a good mood for a while and then sad again. She also said he will yell for no reason or for just a little thing that she did.

It is very hard on her, but she loves him and misses him so she goes with him whenever he will take her.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/06/10 07:18 PM
Just wondering.....how does someone know if it is a MLC or just depression or something else?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 05/09/10 05:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Just wondering.....how does someone know if it is a MLC or just depression or something else?


We don't know. That's the point. You have to cope with what comes and not necessarily be able to name it or diagnose it or treat it in THEM...just treat yourself for whatever ails you. That's a lot for now. Even now, with 2-3 years down from our sitch, I cannot tell you what my h was doing or thinking or why. So I call it an MLC...am I right? Who knows? It changes nothing for me and us.

I would waste zero time and energy worrying about what to call HIS problems, and focus ALL of your energy on you and your d...
j-
Posted By: Truegritter Re: MLC or not? - 05/09/10 08:50 PM
Goodfight

Just wanted to wish you Happy Mother's Day!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/10/10 04:20 PM
Thanks Gritt!

Me and my D13 had a good time. I took her shopping for shorts and then we had pizza.

God Bless Her! It was also our anniversary and she sent me and H a text. She knew the date and was upset cause H didn't offer to help her get me a card for Mother's Day. I told her that just spending time with her was the best present I could get.

Hi Mom and Dad I know Mom you will get this first since we are together and you think that I'm texting one of my friends. LOL
But I know today is yours and Daddys anniversary and well I wish u 2 were 2gether 2day. Mom and Dad, I think you listen to people too much. I love the both of u guys. Wish u guys were 2gether. Don't b mad at me but I know u have to still love each other a little n wish u guys wood just talk n be nice 2 each other n not listen to what other people are telling you to do. I don't care what people say. Y do u? Love u both so much. I might only b a kid but i'm not stupid. Happy mothers day mom.

After I read this, I got all filled up inside thinking of the hurt that she is going through.

She said he was cocky to her the night before (Saturday) when his S asked if they could use the computer. H said to him, no I might get in trouble. H was doing this cause of our D13 seeing porn on his computer around a month ago, and I told him to please watch what he had on there cause she is way too young for that stuff. So I guess he was punishing her for telling me.

Then on Sunday morning she said she felt bad for him cause he looked sad and drank a beer at 8:30 in the morning. I feel so bad for her, because she is smack in the middle of H's mess too!

I just told her that is was a beautiful text and thanked her for sharing her feelings and that hopefully Daddy will get better and be there for her more often like he use to be. And that not to worry, I wasn't going anywhere and she was great the rest of the day.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/10/10 06:16 PM
Thanks 25, you are always here for me. And yes, you are right again, no matter what is wrong H I can't do a darn thing about it and not waste anytime on his problems.

Just feel so bad for the kids. They have been through so much and it seems like the last 6 months they are acting out terrible. They are pushing me to my limits.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 05/10/10 09:52 PM
they will push you unfortnately. But they need you like never before. At one point my then d10 said something like 'If dad loved us he'd be here now" and other times she'd say I was taking out my hurt feelings out on her. She had a point in both comments and I learned from those words, even if they were not totally on point or accurate. It's how she felt.

I told her the truth, and what was MOST important to HER, which was "I will do what I believe will be best for YOUR happiness in the long run" and I meant it. This mattered a lot to her. And you know it's possible a divorce could have been best for her, under some circumstances - but it didn't come to that, thankfully. If it had, I would have gone through with it--meaning, yes I would have divorced her dad, if I were convinced she'd be better off. Our interests are in alignment and as a mother, likely always will be.

I don't know if you get my meaning but the biggest reason I kept trying with my h was b/c of my d's. Not the M itself. And at some point, if my h had continued on in his MLC, or selfishness or whatever it was, I would not have been able to go on much longer nor would I want to. I would want to show myself and my d's that life does go on and that I am a capable woman, a good catch, who does not need a man to make me happy, let alone a man who would carry on badly for too long.

F.Scott Fitzgerald said something like "every man should be able to be an ass once in his life" and I sort of agree. But there comes a time when enough is enough. You must know that you have a line drawn somewhere, and that you really will be alright no matter what. And you must must must project that to your kids. Believe it or not, the irony is that once you actually DO this (not saying it, DOING it) and feel it (fake it til you make it) your kids will feel stronger...and IF THERE'S A CHANCE FOR YOUR M, IF THERE IS, then it's much more likely to happen with this approach. Hence my repeated comments about you GAL and having a PMA and not wallowing in despair.

Reassure your kids that you are NOT going anywhere even if they act out, they can test you all they want, but they're only making themselves miserable and right now, you could use some support FROM them...but again, you are there for them and you always will be. Try to reassure them WHILE also insisting that they make the best of the situation for THEMSELVES as well as for you. But try very very hard NOT to put the responsibility for YOUR happiness onto their shoulders. That's not fair to them and won't work anyhow. Plus, remember that you have to show them that they are in charge of their happiness by being in charge of yours.
Sadly it seems that your h is acting out a lot. They see this. Don't enable it. call it like it is and let the cards fall where they may. If I were you,
for now, I'd assume your old h is in the Australian bush and is not reachable and won't be for 2 years...so make the best of this time NOW...good luck,
j
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/11/10 03:15 PM
Wow 25, that's what my D13 said a few months ago. Mine put in like this, "If Daddy really loved us he would be back by now."

Then she came off with "If Nana and Pop didn't get in the middle he probably would be back but he's listening to them Mom, I just know it. They said that you and Daddy are better off divorced and he listens to them."

She has a lot of questions.

25, you said to assume my old H is in the Australian bush and is not reachable and won't be for 2 years. It has been 18 months, is that how much longer you think he will be out of it for 2 more years? Or is that just so I can detach better?
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/11/10 03:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
is that how much longer you think he will be out of it for 2 more years? Or is that just so I can detach better?
Read what 1000ships wrote on kickme thread.

There is no way to know how long this will take but you can be sure it will not be quick.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 05/11/10 05:51 PM
[u]what oldpilot said [/u]...but imho, despite the 18 months, your h does not sound as if he's through a lot of this IF it's MLC. I'd say 2 more years, IF I HAD TO BET, which I don't, but wth? Forget how long it's been for a minute. See where he IS right now. It ain't close to being ready for a recon and he may never be. But I know 2 couples who div and later remarried. Seems they kind of had to divorce rather than try to "work it out" in a way. I mean I think for them, they had to get the true space of freedom to realize what they could have had. And it took 5 and 8 years for the couples, repectively. Neither couple div with the expectation of a recon. They each changed, and improved and were on their own. Met OPs too.

Down the road, since they were friendly enough to converse (which took a lot of detachment and letting go) the Xhusband in one case and the Xwife in the other, they talked about the kids and events. Milestones, etc. Finally one asked the other if he/she was happier now...and he/she said "not so much happier but at peace" and they realized they had all changed, for the better. They wanted to try again, but took it slowly. Years later, my uncle died of cancer. My aunt (the ex wife turned wife again) was at his side with their children, a real miracle. It happens. But again, detachment and growth on all sides is what that took.

You have not done that. If you did, maybe it would speed things up and make your life better now, OR maybe it would only make your life better now and from now on. Isn't that enough to make it worth really doing?
j
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/11/10 06:14 PM
OP, can't find the thread.

Yes, it is 25.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/11/10 06:22 PM
At the bottom of this page

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1996265&page=3
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/12/10 04:18 PM
Thanks OP once again.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/12/10 07:21 PM
25, I think I'm doing better as far as the detachment. I have felt much better since after Sunday, Mother's Day and Anniversary for some reason. I don't know why I feel better but I do.

I just hope I don't slide back again.

Thanks for your stories, although the last one was so sad about the H passing away.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 05/13/10 12:17 AM
it wasn't sad really. Bittersweet perhaps. But if they had not recon, then he'd have died a lonely bitter death. Instead, the kids saw forgiveness, boundaries set and enforced, and then respected, and reconciliation and love. That is what he left behind as his legacy.

j-
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/13/10 04:40 PM
Ok, I know I'm not suppose to get caught up in H's drama and stuff, but I'm really worried about him. D13 said that he is a mess, is crying and drinking very heavily and not getting any better but worse.

I know he won't open up to anyone in his family or with his friends.

Is there anything I should do? Can't keep thinking about how he said he wished he would die already.
Posted By: mermaid Re: MLC or not? - 05/13/10 04:55 PM
No there is nothing you can do. He looks like he is on a down ward spiral. Remember he has to hit rock bottom before he can start to climb up.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 05/13/10 05:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Can't keep thinking about how he said he wished he would die already.
That might be a good thing.
Originally Posted By: mermaid
Remember he has to hit rock bottom before he can start to climb up.
Stand back and watch, listen, but do not speak!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/13/10 06:18 PM
Thanks Mermaid and OP for dropping by with your advice. I'm just worried that he might try to hurt himself.
Posted By: K4D Re: MLC or not? - 05/23/10 03:27 AM
Goodfight,

I haven't been on the boards much so I haven't been completely up to speed with everyone's sitch. But I started checking in today on a few people's to see how they are doing.

I agree with 25 in let go. I think the austrailian bush is a great example to use. You have to get to a point like that. I am now at the point and have been for some time where I don't want to know what my W is doing. I don't ask. I'd rather not know. It is easier to not think about it if I don't know. We live separately. She is in her world, I am in mine. I think about what I need to do and what I have coming up and how I am going to handle my situations.

You said you have been at this 18 months. While nobody can tell you the future timeline, I think 2 more years isn't unreasonable. Could be sooner, could be longer. But by you imagining him gone and out of touch, it does force you to think about your own life and what you are going to do with it. It is a good thing. I had to get to that point. I am now at 21 months from the second bomb. 28 months if you want to count the first one.

Your H will have no where to go but up once he hits rock bottom and that is when you might hopefully start seeing some positive changes in him and maybe, maybe in your sitch.

Life can be hard, yet enjoyable. It all depends on your outlook. My life isn't always easy. It is down right difficult at times. But you just have to take the difficult situations and find the best way to work through them and they will pass. They always do.

Quote:
I don't know why I feel better but I do.
I just hope I don't slide back again.


I'll be honest. I am not convinced you have detached. You go through periods where you feel better and then something may happen and you revert back. It is a roller coaster. But you might think about when you do feel better, what was it that made you feel better? And how can you apply that same feeling and circumstance again if you start sliding back? I think if you are feeling better, it is important to know why if possible.

Take care,

Kevin
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 05/24/10 06:23 PM
Thanks Kevin for checking in on me.

No, I haven't detached completely......still working on it.

Don't know if anyone remembers but I said I had a funny feeling that H's parents are calling all shots. Usually in a MLC it is OP but nope, I have IL's I'm up against.

Just found out over the weekend that IL's are telling H to divorce me already and making stories up about me and what I'm doing so he doesn't want to come back.

He is drinking really heavy, getting in trouble at work, and like I mentioned above really depressed.

I don't know of anyone especially at our ages that is afraid to try to work on M because of being afraid of what their parents will do or think. He has been thinking of trying to work on our M according to this person but his parents don't approve.

I never knew how afraid of his parents he was until a few years ago when he lied to them about something that was so trivial. When I asked why he did he said he didn't want them mad at him. I said that's crazy, he said it's called respect and I said no it's not respect it's being afraid and there is no reason to be afraid of your parents.

Has anyone ever heard of DBusting when parents are involved with this illness instead of OP?

Just can't believe I might lose my H and our family over IL's.

I know some of you are going to give it to me and say he needs to man up to his parents if he wants this M restored but I don't think he will. This person said he is scared to death.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 06/09/10 05:55 PM
If other people truly are calling the shots on what your h does or feels...then you have the answer. You are not in control of it. Let it go. I mean, what else can you do if that's actually true? You can congratulate yourself on not being with someone who is under the control of his parents and drinks heavily and is possibly suicidally depressed. You can get some therapy so you learn to know why you'd find someone like that so important to your happiness. Or you can let him go. Get a life, have a PMA and do the things the book says so often. DETACH...it really is your only choice, regardless of the circumstance.
j-
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 06/17/10 02:47 PM
From what I hear, he loves me and is still in love with me but he is letting them call the shots. I know I have no control, but on a good note it seems like his head is clearing and this person thinks that he will end up telling them (his family), that he is going to do what he wants to do.

I guess all I can do is wait and see.
Posted By: seeking answers Re: MLC or not? - 06/18/10 10:03 AM
GF,

You're right, all you can do is wait and see. Keep moving forward while you're doing it. You'll need your strength and knowledge if/when your H returns.

(((Hugs)))
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 06/18/10 02:34 PM
SA,

Thank you for the hugs and dropping by.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 06/21/10 07:18 PM
don't mean to quibble, but please don't "wait and see"..[b][b].instead, GAL, DETACH and take charge of your happiness without him[/b.[/b]..I mean he's been out, for going on 2 years now, and a lot of "My Life is on hold" can happen in that time. Life is so short. Don't waste your precious, LIMITED time, b/c the thing is, we don't get to know in advance how much of it we have. I've lost 3 family members in the past 2 years, so again, life is short.

Can I assume you are GAL, Detaching (which is what you actually meant by saying "Wait and see"?) I hope so.
Okay. Good luck!
j-
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 07/08/10 06:31 PM
25, yes, I GAL, and detaching.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 07/08/10 07:22 PM
Not hard to detach since there is NC since the 3rd of June when I called and asked if he could watch our D13 because she was really sick and I had my second job and he said that he couldn't cause he had a viewing to go to.

D13 said he still acts said and gets upset with songs on the radio and wants me to contact him but I tell her that the only one that can help him is himself.

She has been really concerned about his family pushing for us to get a D. She hears them talking to him, and the state he is in she is afraid that he is going to do whatever they tell him to do to make them happy.

I just feel so bad for her.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 07/28/10 05:42 PM
Just an update. Last weekend H asked D13 again if she liked my boyfriend and once again she said, Mom doesn't have a boyfriend. And if you are talking about the guy that opened the pool for us that is Uncle J's best friend and he is married and has 4 kids. He is just trying to help us Daddy.

A friend ran into H and sad that H doesn't look good or sound good. Sounds very sad, but was trying to put a front on. So I guess this friend said something (I can't remember) and H's response was I haven't heard anything in a month and 1/2. That would be from me. I haven't texted him or called about anything.

So what happens a few days later? The lawnmower breaks and I have no clue how or what to do since H took care of all of that stuff also. So our D13 was with him and when she called me I asked her to ask him where do I go to get it fixed.

She said he was nice about it and said Sears. That was on a Saturday. On that Monday I didn't know if I had to take the whole thing or just the part, so figured I would text him since he made the remark to the friend and ask if I just take the part that broke to Sears or the whole thing.

He never responded. So I gave it till the following day and texted him and said never mind. I give up. You don't have to worry about it again. Take care.

Do I feel like a fool. So 2 days later, our D13 comes home from a friend's house that she stayed at for 2 days after she left her father's and said that H had told her to tell me that I need to take the whole thing to Sears.

So I texted him again and told him I was sorry for bothering him about the lawn mower. And that D13 just told me about you telling her that I needed to take the whole thing. I explained that she slept over her girlfriend's house after he dropped her off there and thats why I didn't know what to do. So I asked someone at work. What a kid we have.

I've been detaching and doing the NC thing but the friend said it seemed to her that he was upset cause I wasn't texting or anything and that he really needs help and he needs to talk to someone. And that he is just out and out sad and doesn't like his life at all.

I guess the friend was wrong, cause he doesn't respond to anything.

But now I have a problem, that I have to text and could use some advice on how to word it. It seems that when I don't contact him for a while he doesn't pay the only bill that he is helping with as far as all the bills in both of our names go.

I didn't contact him in April into May so he doesn't pay his part which is less than half, then when I did contact him in June about our D13 being sick. The post is up above. He paid it on time. Now this month here we go again, didn't pay it and it is late.

Thanks for any input or advice on how to text him about the loan.
Posted By: punkin Re: MLC or not? - 07/28/10 11:21 PM
Goodfight,
Do you have a lawyer? Even a written agreement of some kind? Something that would take the heat off of you each and every month about whether or not he has taken care of his responsibility? He may actually be using this bill as a way to maintain contact and "control".

I have no idea what this bill is or what it is about, but could it be seperated? You are not his mother and you shouldn't have to remind him of his responsibilities. I think he's using it as an excuse. Find a way to block his play.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 07/29/10 07:30 PM
Punkin,

Yes, I have a lawyer but not a written agreement. In our state they don't like legal separation and would rather just do the divorce. Plus it would cost me $750 just in court fees plus my attorney's fee.

I'm standing for my M, so I don't want to push the D at all.

It can't be separated. It's a joint loan when we consolidated a bunch of bills a year before he left.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/05/10 05:30 PM
Well,

H paid on it on the 29th. So I didn't have to contact him. I was waiting for 3:00 on that day to see if he did pay or not. The next day there would have been a late charge, and I would have had to contact him.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/10/10 05:04 PM
Can't believe it is over 21 months and I'm still sad. I think it is the part of being lonely all of the time. Never did I think it would go on this long.

First in November then in March we were together for a brief couple of hours and in March talking about dating (never happened, H said a couple of days later that it wouldn't be a good idea) and now not a word since the end of May. Only through our daughter, had a problem with the lawn mower and he told her to tell me where to take it etc.

Doing the NC thing I thought would help more than what it has, H just makes sure I know what he is up to by telling D13. Knowing that she will come back and tell me, which I don't understand why he does that at all. Asks D13 if she likes my boyfriend every couple of weeks (which I don't have).

When this first started (the separation)I would call H and either cry or complain and since April I haven't done any of that and nothing is changing for the good at all as far as our M.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/11/10 07:21 PM
Okay D13 comes home around 2 weeks ago and tells me about this song that H was listening to, and seemed upset while singing it and sad.

I really don't get this this MLC stuff, this is really confusing. He doesn't contact but has problems with certain songs and gets filled up in front of his family and our D13. Just had to share they lyrics with everyone.

Going crazy my heart is breaking
I can't sleep at all
Trying to get through this
Don't know how I'll do this
I know that I only got my self to blame (only got myself to blame)
But that doesn't help to ease the pain (doesn't help to ease the pain)
I'll just die if I can't see your face


[Chorus:]
Until you come back
I can't breath
Until you come back
I got no reason
Got my heart, my heart down on it's knees
I still need you beside me

[Verse 1:]
Now it's morning
Your still gone and
I still reach for you (still reach for you)
Don't know how to
Live without you
I will, I can take back all the hurt I've caused
(take back all the hurt I've caused)
If I could give back all the love I lost
(give back all the love I lost)
The price I pay is just to high of a cost yea

[Chorus:]
Until you come back
I can't breath
Until you come back
I got no reason
Got my heart, my heart down on it's knees
I still need you beside me

[Verse 2:]
Please forgive me (forgive me)
If we had one more chance in your life (one more chance in your life)
Till your with me
I'll be half a life until you come back (back back)

[Chorus:]
Until you come back
I can't breath
Until you come back
I got no reason
Got my heart, my heart down on it's knees
Cause I need you beside me

[Chorus:]
Until you come back
I can't breath
Until you come back
I got no reason
Got my heart, my heart down on it's knees
I still need you beside beside beside beside me
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 08/11/10 08:11 PM
GF

You were asking Imlin to look at your thread. I have been reading it for a while. I know you have been at this for a while. We have spoken many times. What are you doing for GF?
I have no clue what this song means but you need to let him approach you. Do not take this as a means to break your NC with him. You are doing well with that.
Maybe he is moving in the tunnel. Is there stil an OW?

Please continue to work on you and be the best MOM you can be for D13. I am concerned for her being the go between between your H and you. That is not good.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/12/10 05:18 PM
I'm sorry Lance, what is GF? And no there hasn't been an OW and still isn't.

I'm confused....moving in the tunnel or out of the tunnel?

I'm working on myself still and I'm also concerned about D13. He won't communicate any other way, which I have told him from the very beginning that it isn't good for her at all, but he keeps doing it. I really don't know why either.
Posted By: ddstartingover Re: MLC or not? - 08/12/10 05:24 PM
I'll jump in....GF = Goodfight smile
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 08/12/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Dianamo
I'll jump in....GF = Goodfight smile
smile Yes.

If there is no OW - GF(GoodFight) your husband is very depressed. His actions show up as a very low energy/depressed person.

The movement I was talking about was within the tunnel, hopefully forward toward the light at the end.
But he is still deep in there.
Since you are NC with him, and I am not suggesting you change that, it is hard to tell if he is peeking out or not.
(that is in reference to the song you posted).

Hope that helps to clear up what I posted.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/12/10 07:19 PM
I knew GF was for Goodfight but in the middle of the sentence from Lance thought it was for girlfriend. I'm losing it. LOL

Oh, by the way. H is moving for the 4th time and is moving further from his mother and step-father. Not by much but this shocked me and D13 said he didn't sign a lease this time either. Hope I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm thrilled that maybe he might think he might want to reconcile one day and doesn't want to be stuck with a lease.

I was shocked! But then again, I know. NO expectations!! But it just seems like little things are happening with him. He is paying for 1/2 of D13's stuff for soccer for the first time since the separation. He talked to my S19 for the first time in almost a year. He told D13 to tell my S19 that he said "Hi" the other day. And now he is moving away from his real mother just like he did when he moved away from his step-mother.

Just hoping and praying he is coming out of this tunnel!
Posted By: jon2911 Re: MLC or not? - 08/12/10 10:47 PM
GF,
Just catching up on the last couple pages of your thread. Very sad that the IL's are such obstacles. Completely relate to that.

Echoing what everyone else said, he needs to hit his own rock bottom. And when he does and looks your way, what will he find?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/13/10 07:09 PM
Jon,

It has been a long time, but I think I'm finally getting stronger and less depressed.

I thank God for that!!! I'm still standing for my M. Hopefully he is making baby steps as far as helping with D13's stuff for soccer and talking to my S19 last week for the first time in almost a year.

I'm hoping that when H looks my way he will see the person he wanted to marry in the beginning!!!

Thanks Jon for checking on me!!!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/23/10 07:54 PM
Update, not looking any better.

 I was on vacation last week and didn't have a computer.  My computer has a virus at home.  Anyway, I thought I was seeing baby steps of him coming out of the fog.  He didn't sign a lease with his new place, offered to pay 1/2 of our daughter's soccer, and there were a few more things but can't remember right now.  

Then last Monday he told our daughter he was going to help with groceries on Thursday and then at the end of the month he would give her 1/2 of what soccer I had to pay for over a month ago.

So in between this mess, she was at a friend's house and was on Facebook, and she went on his and he changed his status from complicated to Single (this killed me inside because I was thanking God for the small things, and that was one of them, that he at least didn't have Single on his Facebook and here he does now.)  She texted him, and said Dad you aren't single and he said Bree, it's almost 2yrs. and I'm single, why is this bothering you and she replied because Daddy I was hoping that someday we could be a family again and he told her that it would never work out.  And she said would if you and Mommy went on a date and he replied no thanks, and she said would if I asked Mommy and she says yes, then would you go?  And he said no thanks and good bye.

And she said of course Dad when it gets tough you just say good bye right???  So she said about 20 minutes later he calls her and asks if someone else had her phone and she said no.  Then he asked her who put her up to what she said, and she said no one Dad I was at my friends house.  Then he asked her where she was at that time when they were talking and she told him the park.

So a couple hours later she comes home all upset and tells me what happened so I texted him and told him that I told her that it wasn't her business what he was doing and that I talked to her and she seems okay with everything.  I then thanked him for helping with groceries and soccer and told him I greatly appreciate it because I'm really struggling.  I didn't expect a response and of course didn't get one but wow!  She is going to be 14 soon, she is very smart and doesn't need anyone putting her up to things, and finally spoke up to him and this is what she gets!

Well, she texted him on Wednesday because we were school shopping a little and asked if he was still going to help with the groceries the next day and he texts her back "Where the hell would you like me to get the money?"  "I send money to you every week for your needs."  Our daughter couldn't believe it, so I took stuff out of the cart and told her I will come up with the money for the rest that she needs, but I needed money for groceries since he wasn't going to help.  She said "Mom, he makes me feel like I'm going crazy, I know he told me just the other day that he was going to help us."  I actually started to cry in the store.

I told her, she is not going crazy, and I know how she feels.  He was doing that to me, every time we talked.  I don't know what the heck to think, one minute he seems like he is taking baby steps and then goes right back to being an jerk.

Well, that was my week and here I thought it was going to be a good one, since the card reader told me that I would be hearing important good news about H, and when I heard he didn't sign a lease this time (this is 4 times he has moved) I texted her and asked her when she was reading again to check on me if she had the time and she did and said yes, that was your important good news and that she sees him thinking about his future and wanting to try to work things out, but he won't be home right off the bat.

Well, my week was awful!!  I cried and cried, was on the couch most of the week and got nothing accomplished that I needed to as far as the house cleaning or really anything.

Things are breaking around the house, I can't afford to hire anyone and I have no one to help me.  I just feel so overwhelmed again.

They said this MLC is a roller coaster, well they've got that right. Is this normal for H to say these things to our D13 and then act like he never said it? I should say normal for a MLC'er?

He doesn't and hasn't spoken to me since June, but talks and acts sad around D13 with certain stuff and asks if I have a BF. Still is drinking really heavy too. I guess he has really gone dark. Does it hurt them when they contact us, if their family wants the D also? He is being pushed to D me on top of his crisis. Not another woman but his family.




 



From:        Silvia Martinez <smartinez1300@gmail.com>
To:        "Mercier, Ann" <ann.mercier@att.net>, kknight@luzerne.edu
Date:        08/14/2010 05:16 PM
Subject:        




This site is awesome, it resonated so much.  And it was very healing
 
 
http://www.youarenotcrazy.com/

--
Live to Give
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/23/10 08:08 PM
I'm really sorry you're having a tough time.

You can't expect him to act, think, or care like before. It's tough but it's the way it is.

Keep coming here to vent.

Please be careful with how much you involve your daughter.

I'm sure you're not aware but email addy's and links like this aren't allowed on here. You may want to try to remove that last part of your post.

Please go easy V.

Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/23/10 08:16 PM
I messed up big time on post up above. I have names in it and everything. I'm sorry everyone, I copied it from an email that I sent to a friend and when I went to edit it, it wouldn't let me do it.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/23/10 08:22 PM
Just to clarify, I do understand that your D took it upon herself to ask the questions. I guess what I was trying to say is to take care in what you say. Just a reminder more than anything else.

You have to remember that a mlc'er sees the world through a totally different pair of eyes. Responsibility is not one of their strong suits.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/23/10 08:23 PM
I believe you can still remove it.

No worries. You have a lot on your plate.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 02:27 PM
I don't get to say a word. And he has D13 in the middle of everything. I do the NC and then he will do something a few weeks later I think to push my buttons so I will contact him even though he won't respond.

H has gone completely dark now, so looks like things are getting worse instead of better. He has been dark since the beginning of June.

Is this the normal of a MLC'er to do after this long?

First when he left we argued a lot, then got a long, talked sometimes about kids and jobs. Sent jokes through texts and now nothing at all. It really slowed down and then came to a stop after we were together in March for a few hours and he talked about dating each other.

I do also know through our D13 that his family has been saying to him just to divorce me already and get it over with, so I know how he is or should I say was and is probably discussing things with them and they are telling him to move on so this must mess him up also. And to think, this was the family that wanted me to marry him so badly. Our D13 also said she doesn't understand that when he gets sad and sits and drinks and doesn't talk to anyone that no one asks him what's wrong. This part of his family didn't speak to him for 12yrs. and now he runs to them a year after our separation and they are his life and me and the kids are nothing. I just don't get it.

I really thought he was seeing the light a little bit with offering to help with grocery money and soccer and not signing a lease this time and a couple of other little things but I guess I was wrong.

So down again, I was feeling better the week before last and now it's like he did a complete turn around the following week.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 02:29 PM
Quote:
then he will do something a few weeks later I think to push my buttons so I will contact him even though he won't


He can't make you do anything anymore than you can make him do anything.

The only power he has over your actions is the power you give him.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 02:30 PM
I can't seem to remove the stuff on page 28. If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 02:30 PM
I don't get to say a word. And he has D13 in the middle of everything. I do the NC and then he will do something a few weeks later I think to push my buttons so I will contact him even though he won't respond.

H has gone completely dark now, so looks like things are getting worse instead of better. He has been dark since the beginning of June.

Is this the normal of a MLC'er to do after this long?

First when he left we argued a lot, then got a long, talked sometimes about kids and jobs. Sent jokes through texts and now nothing at all. It really slowed down and then came to a stop after we were together in March for a few hours and he talked about dating each other.

I do also know through our D13 that his family has been saying to him just to divorce me already and get it over with, so I know how he is or should I say was and is probably discussing things with them and they are telling him to move on so this must mess him up also. And to think, this was the family that wanted me to marry him so badly. Our D13 also said she doesn't understand that when he gets sad and sits and drinks and doesn't talk to anyone that no one asks him what's wrong. This part of his family didn't speak to him for 12yrs. and now he runs to them a year after our separation and they are his life and me and the kids are nothing. I just don't get it.

I really thought he was seeing the light a little bit with offering to help with grocery money and soccer and not signing a lease this time and a couple of other little things but I guess I was wrong.

So down again, I was feeling better the week before last and now it's like he did a complete turn around the following week.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 02:36 PM
TH,

That's why I don't contact him when he does do these things anymore. I did all the way back to the Spring time, but even though it kills and hurts so bad I don't contact him at all.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 05:56 PM
If you want remove your post you will have to hit the notify button while logged in. Be sure to hit the notify button directly below that specific post.

If I remember correctly it seems like there is a text box for you to reply as to why you are flagging this post. You can use that to explain to the mods that you made a mistake while you were cutting and pasting and accidentally included that portion.

Ahhh hell... Where's Lance when you need him? grin I'm kidding, that should do it. It may take a little time, I'm not sure.


Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I do the NC and then he will do something a few weeks later I think to push my buttons so I will contact him even though he won't respond.


They will often try to push your buttons and get you to react negatively. Sometimes it's almost like they have this need to keep contact for some reason. Yes, it's strange, but what isn't around here? Other times it's actually legit, they really do need to speak to you for a valid reason, whether it involves the kids, or financial stuff or whatever.

It's up to you to decide on what to respond (not react) to and what to let go.

Quote:
H has gone completely dark now, so looks like things are getting worse instead of better. He has been dark since the beginning of June.

Is this the normal of a MLC'er to do after this long?


Please watch your thoughts, you are already getting off on the negative foot by assuming this is a bad thing. Sometimes they will vanish because they NEED space to work on their issues, which is good. No more negative expectations should be your goal.

You said normal and MLC'er in the same sentence. smile Yes, many will pop in and out like this.

Quote:
I really thought he was seeing the light a little bit with offering to help with grocery money and soccer and not signing a lease this time and a couple of other little things but I guess I was wrong.


You really need to work hard to arrive at a place mentally as to where you are not trying to read into his every word or action. Most of the time they simply are what they are.(In mlc they are usually all about him) This would be another example of an expectation.

Quote:
So down again, I was feeling better the week before last and now it's like he did a complete turn around the following week.


Be patient and keep working hard. He took you along with him this time.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 08/24/10 06:25 PM
Originally Posted By: trapt
Ahhh hell... Where's Lance when you need him? grin I'm kidding, that should do it. It may take a little time, I'm not sure.
Nice to be needed, but I had already responded to her by private message.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/25/10 01:53 PM
Trapt, what is your current sitch?
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/26/10 06:10 PM
GF,

I have been divorced now for quite a while. Overall, life is really good. That's not to say that I still don't have my days at times. I still deal with the effects of divorce from a financial standpoint all the way to missing the heck out of my son and daughter when they are away. I do have 50/50 custody so I can't really complain.

Having two small children keeps me in the MLC world at times. My ex climbed aboard the crazy train three years ago. I still have to deal with the craziness often. She is one of them that has to have plenty of contact still to this day. In fact things have been real interesting these past few weeks.


It gets much better and brighter with time no matter what the outcome will be. Stay strong, work hard everyday at forgivness and stay open to what ever may come your way in life.

Keep learning, keep growing and keep Fighting the Goodfight.....

more often than not that fight you're fighting will be you trying to conquer yourself.

Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/27/10 12:58 PM
Thanks Trapt for the encouragement. I'm trying to stay strong. And I have already forgiven him. This is the hardest journey I think I have ever been on. But I'm still praying and fighting for my M.
Posted By: fisherman Re: MLC or not? - 08/27/10 02:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
And I have already forgiven him.


Please keep in mind, it's not a one and done thing.

I'm not trying to be negative here, but before this all comes to a close, you will most likely feel more hurt, sadness and anger. You'll need to dig deeper in order to keep living that forgiveness. It's done daily.

Quote:
This is the hardest journey I think I have ever been on. But I'm still praying and fighting for my M.


It's worth it no matter what happens. Better yet...... you're worth it.
Posted By: punkin Re: MLC or not? - 08/27/10 02:47 PM
GF,

My H does the same thing. Quiet, quiet, quiet, and then BAM! Push those buttons. He knows my biggest button is our home, and having a home to go to. I often feel he does things to purposely hurt me, out of the blue. While I understand the concept of MLC=confusion, it keeps bringing up the thought, "What did I do?"
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 08/27/10 05:16 PM
I completely understand Punkin. Mine has been doing this for over 21 months. And now that he doesn't contact me, he will say things in front of our D13 or to her because he knows she will come back and tell me. I told her not to pay attention and that Daddy is sick right now. But since he doesn't respond anyway I figured I will not even bother to text or call him in response to anything he says or does.

I know it's hard not to, but I think that is what they want. They want us to yell or whatever so then we are the bad guys again.

The last shot was he told D13 that he didn't have any money for groceries for us and he changed his status on Facebook from complicated to single. Our D13 was so upset. I don't look anymore because it only hurts and when she told him about it all he could say was, well it's been almost 2yrs. so I am single. They did get into it through texting because I was being blamed for either having her phone or putting her up to it. I had nothing to do with it except after she told me I had to calm her down.

I did text him that day which was in the beginning of the week and told H that I told D13 it was his business and not hers and to respect him and not to do it ever again. Then like a fool I added thanks for helping with groceries and soccer because I'm really struggling and then 2 days later he tells D13 that doesn't have any money to help us and he sends money to her every week for her needs.

I know that was also a dig and to push my buttons but I just left it go. And I do know that feeling and still to this day ask myself "What did I do?" You are not alone.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/13/10 03:13 PM
Update:
On Thursday I was going down the road and noticed this church sign that said "There is Hope" "There is Jesus", I felt like it was a sign that I have been praying for, and have found myself going down that road now, not just on Thursdays and Fridays when I have my second job, but going out of my way around 3 minutes to get home to see the sign. Well, on Friday I thought I would die. I'm heading down the road the one way towards my second job and H is heading up the road in the opposite direction. Don't know if it was a sign from God or not now because he needs to go down that road to get to his new place. I looked a little to the side and saw his uniform shirt and that's how I knew it was him. I shook with so much happiness thinking there is my sign, but the more I thought about it I got confused. That is the way for him to go home, and I have to admit before that sign was put up I was going that way hoping that I would see him for a little while but then our D13 told me that he goes to his sister's after work every day so I stopped going that way, only when I have to get to my second job.

Sunday our D13 came home from her visit early because she said H was just laying around and seemed really sad and asked him what was wrong and he just said nothing. So she made up a story that she had to babysit so she had to come home early.

H had his mother and sister and sister's family over his house and H told them that he went to the Dr. and the Dr. said he needs to go to counseling. And he told them (the family) that he told the Dr. he has his family and doesn't need counseling and the mother and sister agreed! The sister said that all counselors are looking for is money!

On the way to his apartment on Sat. he told our D13 that he went to the Dr. and he had to get meds. for his stomach, heart, and something else but didn't tell her what it was for and that he was acting really sad. And that it cost him $150 for all 3 meds so he couldn't give her the money for me for her soccer.

Well, our D13 goes into his cabinet and happens to see the pills and I swore months ago I wouldn't go online and check to see if he was taking any meds at all but I did this morning. He lied again, which I don't know why. He is always complaining he is broke but bought a brand new washer and dryer and he knows that our oven is broken, and he only owes me $40 for the soccer and he is the one that keeps bringing it up to her, that he will give it to her the following week. Then lies about how much his pills were. I went online and he his not taking any pills for his heart. He is taking 2 different ones for his stomach and one for depression, of course he won't admit to her about the depression one because that would prove I've been right the whole time. Oh, and he changed Dr's. again. Why lie and tell our D13 it was for his heart?? It scared her, just like when he told her he had high blood pressure, and me like a fool texted him and told him to please take his meds for it and to take care of himself and listen to what the Dr. says because I know him all too well and he never listens to Drs. And if he needed anything to let me know. He responded but that is before he told our D13 in the middle of May that if I texted him he would read it but not respond. So I don't know if he said about his heart to see if I still cared cause he knows she will tell me like I did when I was worried about his high blood pressure and contact him or what to think. But why lie about the cost? All 3 of them came to $70 not $150!!!

I'm so confused......please give me your thoughts and or advice.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/13/10 08:45 PM
My thoughts would be he is still in replay and out of his mind.
You need to worry about GF and not worry about him.

When he is ready to pursue you that is when you can start to think about him again. Even then you will need to detach.

Do not buy into his drama, no reaction is the best thing that you can do.

Sorry I am not getting too much else out of this post.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/15/10 05:01 PM
Thanks Lance. I didn't react to anything.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/16/10 01:51 PM
Need to vent.

Update. Last night our D13 told me that the guidance counselor told her that H had called the school and talked to her and told her he wants all reports on our daughter. He wants copies sent to his apartment of her report cards and other things like if she gets detention or something.

Well, she had a form that needed to be filled out for the nurse yesterday and it asked for both of our addresses if parents are separated or divorced. So I told her to text him even though he would be sleeping and ask for his address (since I still don't know it).

Well, he gets up around 3 a.m. and when we were getting ready for school and work she checked her phone and he never texted her back. So she tries to call him so she can take the form back to school today. He doesn't answer so she texts him again and his response was they already have it and she told him okay but she needed it for another form for the nurse. Same response comes back, they already have it.

Now remember, he has no rights to her. He gave them up over a year ago in May. I do let H see her when she wants to see H. I was looking at this as a positive thing....H being involved with her school work last night but now he just seems to be wanting a reaction from me!!!

Do I contact the school (which I told them a year ago in May) that H doesn't have rights to her at all? Is this just another way to p*ss me off by not answering her about his new address?

I purposely have not asked her for the address for a month now, but the more I think about it I want to know the exact address and where she is going to be when with H. I know the city, but not the street address.

Why can't he just pick up the phone and call me and ask for copies of her report cards or ask how she is doing?

We were doing good in March and now that his family is more involved (I think they had something to do with this) is H doing what they are telling to do? There is no OW but it is like there is because H lets his family tell him what to do and when to do it.

I really thought things were going to get a little better. H going to the Dr., taking AD's again, getting involved with our D's school stuff but I'm wondering now if this is just another game with him to get a reaction out of me as far as not giving our D13 the exact address.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/16/10 02:21 PM
Quote:
I'm wondering now if this is just another game with him to get a reaction out of me as far as not giving our D13 the exact address.
No I don't think it is a game, he is just still in his fog and nothing but the fog is on his radar.
I would just let it go and keep living your life without him.
I would tell the school the truth. You don't know his address.
It is not YOUR problem. It is the schools problem.
Let them get in touch with him.

Thats MHO.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/16/10 02:30 PM
Lance,
So you think I should not contact the school. Remember he contacted the guidance counselor yesterday, and gave him his address I'm assuming but won't give it to our D13 for a form for the nurse.

I have the right to know it too, so when she goes with him. I understand what you are saying about the fog, but why is he being such an a** and won't give it to our D13? Doesn't make sense, I will eventually get the address why couldn't he just tell her?
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/16/10 02:39 PM
Yes it doesn't make sense. I agree with that.

So you are asking me why is a crazy person crazy?

I am just saying to stay away from the crazy person to protect yourself.
Someday he might not be crazy anymore.

Maybe with the nurse, inform her separately that the guidance office has the information.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/16/10 03:11 PM
Wow, our D13 just texted me and told me that he gave her the address. This stuff is totally crazy.

Is this to get a reaction from me with all of the stuff he has been pulling the last couple of weeks?

So confusing, I thought these things were positive things. He went to the Dr., taking ADs, calling and getting involved with her school work like he was when we were together.

I think looking for sympathy (I think) , by telling our D13 he is taking a pill for his heart (total lie).

UGGHHHH!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/23/10 02:28 PM
Need advice on this one. D13 said last night that she hasn't heard from H for 1 1/2 weeks. He was calling her every day. She thinks that he loves his S17 and S15 more than her. She said that if they are not with him he will call them on Sunday and talk about football or whatever.

He gave them the bigger room in his apartment so if they stay over night there is enough room but they don't sleep there that often. H's sons are from a high school relationship. I don't know if I should text H and tell him that she feels left out or what to do. I know that he will not respond to my text but I also feel he should know that he is hurting her. She is afraid to express how she feels with H. Then she gets mad about it, and says, the phone rings both ways and that is what Daddy tells me. H got that from his controlling step-mother. She always said that the kids should be calling the parents not the other way around.

If you think I should contact H what do I say and how do I say it? Or do I just leave it alone.

Lance, where are you?
Posted By: Cyrena Re: MLC or not? - 09/23/10 04:13 PM
My instinct would be that he's probably going to discount anything he hears from you--he's already set up rationalizations to tune you out.

However, I think this is a place where it would be really useful for your D to express herself to her father. This is a skill she needs for all her future relationships, and thinking like "I'm afraid to tell X something because..." becomes a destructive ingrained habit.

However, if a face-to-face discussion would be too difficult for her, perhaps it would be easier to get it all down in a letter? This would diffuse tensions, let her express herself fully, and give him a chance to re-read it in a calmer state of mind.

My other suggestion would be, since she has a C, could she invite H to come to an appointment so she could talk these issues through with the support of her therapist? The C could gently guide H in how to resolve your D's hurt.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/23/10 04:48 PM
Thanks Cyrena,
I've been working on her talking to him, she just says that Daddy isn't Daddy anymore. And she can't talk to him the way she can talk to me.

As far as H in her C. He wouldn't go. He did attend in the beginning or our separation but only a few times. I don't think he liked being told by D13's C that he needed to do this and that and didn't like the fact that she gave it to him straight as far as what he was doing wrong.

I guess the letter thing would be the best thing for her to do but I know him and he will think I put her up to it. I think I still get the blame for everything.

I'm just so confused......if he wasn't happy with me and the kids and blames me for everything then why did he just go on the 10th to the Dr.'s to be put back on his AD's that he stopped taking 3 1/2 weeks before he left. D13 said he isn't happy at all, so I know it wasn't all me.

Maybe I will talk to D13 and see what she would like to do. Sometimes she gets so mad also and just might say the heck with him. I hope not, because they always were so close.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/23/10 08:09 PM
I am with Cyrena on this, you should not get involved with the relationship of your D13 and H. DO NOT call him, or contact him.
Let your D13 work it out with him.

I think someone (grace maybe) said it
It is not your job to fix their relationship.
It is your job not to damage it.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/24/10 02:30 PM
Hi Lance,

I didn't and don't plan on doing anything as far as contacting H.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not going to contact him, you are right. It is up to him to contact her and for me not to get in the middle.

I did tell her he loves her very much, and is just sick right now and she said "How long is he going to be like this? It's almost 2yrs. Mom" I just said didn't know how long but that I know he loves her with his whole heart.

My S from my first M is also upset and has been for a long time. H raised him since he was 4 and the only contact was a card from H for S's birthday last Oct. and I had to ask H if he was going to acknowledge S or not. I didn't want to see my S hurt again. His father has nothing to do with him and H has raised him and acts now like he doesn't exist. Both of my children have the same birthday so there is NO way for H to forget or anything.

It seems with their birthdays coming up again, I'm more nervous thinking he won't acknowledge my S. H's family claimed they loved my S and so on but after we were married things changed and they treated him like an outsider and that's when H went and told them off. But now that he has made up with his mother he is acting just like them. But God bless my S. He said "Mom, H is like a little boy in a man's body. I think he will get better and come back home."

Sure hope S is right!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 01:53 PM
Just venting.......D13 texted H and asked why he hasn't called her or anything and he said the phone rings both ways. Well, that's all I ever heard from MIL for many many years and she always felt it was up to the children to contact the parents not the other way around. So I guess H has this dug into his head also.

To me that is crazy......if I didn't hear from my child whether young or adult I sure as hell would contact them making sure everything is okay.

Here we go again this month....loan is now 3 days past due and I don't want to text him. I'm getting tired of reminding H. And I also wonder if he does it on purpose so I contact him.

Don't know how to word it (the text) though.
Posted By: handlingplanb Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 04:29 PM
Just a thought.....can you just forward the past due bill to him? I know how tough this is. I've been separated since 7/08....exhausting.............
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 04:47 PM
No I can't because it comes online and I don't have his email.

Yes, this is exhausting......plus I'm really depressed again.
Posted By: handlingplanb Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:04 PM
I know how that goes.........cycles........running in circles---feeling like YOU are the one that's nuts (am I right?). How about printing the screen/e-mail and [snail] mailing to him?
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I'm really depressed again.
This is more important.
What are you doing to take care of this?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:31 PM
Lance,
I went to the Dr. again yesterday and she thinks it is the seasons changing. She has seen this in me before, even before the separation. But she thinks that the separation is making it harder on me. She can't give me any more meds and I really don't want anymore, so I guess I will just have to take day by day and work my way through it.

I'm glad to hear from you. I have a question for you. You said that you thought H was in REPLAY. Wouldn't the DEPRESSION stage be the right one since he went to the Dr. on the 10th and was told he needed counseling and antidepressants? You know I heard this from my D13.

Handlingplab, YEP, that's how I feel most of the time. I'm no where near as strong as Lance and the others on this board. I still don't know if H is in MLC.....I'm so confused about all of it. That's another problem if I snail mail it we will be charged late fees and he only pays 1/3 of it as it is and makes 3 times the amount I do, and I can't afford to pay the fees.
Posted By: handlingplanb Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:45 PM
I hear you on the late fees....and I'm thankful not to have the financial problems (yet). My H also sees the kids very regularly and I can send mail back and forth with them. Maybe an alternate delivery? And maybe request that he puts his email on the list so he gets the notices too??
Posted By: handlingplanb Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:49 PM
AND - I know how hard it is to focus on YOU when there is so much life in the way---so much to do and responsibility. I know what it is like to feel like you are the only one unable to just "live" and "focus on yourself." It sounds so easy when others say it.....but I do believe it HAS to be done! I'm still looking for the answer to how to accomplish that...and have decided that it is past time to go back to IC. I just need to find the right one.......
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 05:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
I have a question for you. You said that you thought H was in REPLAY. Wouldn't the DEPRESSION stage be the right one since he went to the Dr. on the 10th and was told he needed counseling and antidepressants?
When did I say that?
I just went back and read the last few pages which correspond to the last few months.
It is possible that he is in depression stage.
He is still living at moms listening to your inlaws.
So I don't know, if he still is having replay antics.
Depression is present throughout the entire crisis.
So it would not surprise me that he is on AD's.
What will surprise me is if he stays on them.

Please remind me, he never had an OW that you know of?
You still must not change anything that you are doing at this point. IMHO.

He is still in control and you must mirror him.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 06:04 PM
I'm really in a BIG financial mess. H took our truck back to the credit union 1 month after we separated and he never told me. He drove it over 2 1/2 hours to get it there and ruined my credit. When I was notified I asked him why and he said he couldn't afford the gas, which was a big lie. He was living with his step-mother and father for the first 6 months and paid nothing and makes so much more than I do.

A few months later I asked him again why he did that and his answer was "I don't know why." I knew then he was in a big depression. He loved that truck. So finally he started helping make payments on one of our loans and got mad because I didn't thank him right away and said "Oh, that's right, I forgot it takes a lot to make you happy."

With this loan he pays whatever he feels like paying. And then around 3 weeks ago he closes it without letting me know. Don't know if he was looking for a reaction from me or what, but I didn't react but was upset since it is revolving and I had to use it for the first time a few weeks before that to pay for my car to get fixed. I figured I would use it since I was the one paying most of it all of the time and I had NO other way to pay for my car.

Mine doesn't see our D13 regularly, and hasn't bothered with my S19 that he raised for almost a year now. His mother and sister that he is very very close to now after not speaking to them for over 12 years because they were throwing a fit that H was going to adopt my S19 are in the middle of our mess now. So when his step-mother and father backed away from him he went running to them. And they are plain out evil. I saw things that use to put me into panic attacks when me and H would be in their company. And to think I thought they loved me and my son because they pushed me to marry H and even set the date so it would be on his mother and step-father's anniversary.

They talk about everyone and not nice things either. They are now talking about D13 (she over hears them), so she doesn't like to go with H since that is where he goes all the time. And all I had was his father and step-mother for family and of course blood is thicker than water so neither me or the kids have heard from them since H left.

So as I type this it scares me that H is never going to come back because of his family, he will not want to go against them in fear that he will lose them again.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 06:16 PM
It was a few weeks ago Lance. Maybe on someone else's thread. I forget. LOL But anyway, there is no OW that I know of and he has been on his own now for a little over a year.

He moved from step-mother and father's to an apartment and then to another apartment and now he is in another apartment.

But the other in-laws are running the show now according to D13. Please read my post above.

That's what I'm afraid of to Lance, that he won't stay on the AD's. I know that depression runs all the way through MLC if that is what H is going through but do you think he will keep moving?

I still can't believe he was mad at D13 and that's why he hasn't called her or anything for 2 weeks. When she told me I almost died. First he tells her the phone rings both ways (that comes from his step-mother), who the heck is the adult here?? And this is not any of MLC behavior, he is actually convinced for many years that children should call their parents but it was different for him contacting his parents. He has 2 S's from a relationship from high school and our D13 is so upset thinking he loves them more than her. She said he calls them when she's at his apartment. UGGH!

The part in all of this is what I don't get is that all of a sudden in the middle of May he stops all contact with me and tells our D13 that if I text him he will read but not respond and same with calls. WTH??

So what do I do with this loan thing? Last month I just texted him and put loan is past due and they are going to charge fees if not paid today. So he pays on it and then closes it, which I didn't even think he knew it was still open.

Oh by the way, H's sister and mother said he doesn't need C he has them and H said that is what he told the Dr.......JUST GREAT!

Lance, it's on page 30 of this thread. Thanks
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/28/10 08:00 PM
Ok, I found it. I will stick with what I wrote though, whether he is in replay or depression he is out of his mind.
You still must not change anything I have said.

As far as everything else you must control YOU and stay out of what you can't control.

Can you seperate your name from the credit card?

Everything he is doing is CONTROLLING, that is standard behavior for someone that is depressed.

You need to try to stay out of it.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/29/10 05:22 PM
No I can't separate my name from the card. I already tried a long time ago. The only way to get him to pay 1/2 and to be responsible for being on time is if we get a legal separation and my L said that it is $750 just for the master's fees and that our county doesn't like legal separation. They would just rather go for the D. I don't have that kind of money anyway.

So now I have NO clue what to do about the card and him not paying. NC means not texting him and reminding him again this month, which is the only time I do contact him anymore. Any advice?

Last time I texted him saying "H, loan is past due and if we don't pay it today we will be charged fees. Thanks W"
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 09/29/10 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Any advice?

Last time I texted him saying "H, loan is past due and if we don't pay it today we will be charged fees. Thanks W"


I would do this.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 09/29/10 07:26 PM
Thanks Lance. I don't want to do anything but I don't have a choice this month. But I thought of a way but this is contact also isn't it for next month.....what do you think?

I could forward the statement (copy) and mail it again like I was doing after the first year of separation. H got mad when I did this though because he said he didn't need to be reminded when we were still speaking off and on.....I think it got him mad in a way cause I wouldn't call or text him just send it. But this time with NO note or anything anymore this time.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 10/29/10 09:04 AM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
No I can't separate my name from the card. I already tried a long time ago. The only way to get him to pay 1/2 and to be responsible for being on time is if we get a legal separation and my L said that it is $750 just for the master's fees and that our county doesn't like legal separation. They would just rather go for the D. I don't have that kind of money anyway.


Goodfight,
WelI, last I posted to you was in April I think. Just wanted to stop by to check up on you and give you a pep talk. But this is going to be a long one. GF, From what I'm reading here, other than minor changes in forms of communication, like texting versus the phone, it looks as if You have done virtually nothing different in your inner work, or to create a HAPPY future without h, since you first posted.

Sweetie, you are STUCK, and that's b/c it's STILL almost all about HIM!!

It's still all about what or Why HE might be doing/feeling/planning to do, OR it's whether he's in "MLC", MLC 'replay' OR is he a WAS vs MLC vs OW, and if so, what does that mean? OR if he's in a "stage" of either of those AND whether he'll come back (as if we know "the secret" that tells us what % chance there is)

OR it's about whether he's only dealing with Clinical depression, OR if he's got the Wrong medication OR the wrong diagnosis OR it if changed, OR about his childhood issues, OR it's about his evil family AND OR how they might feel about you AND OR how that might "make" HIM feel about you, OR it's about how your h might hurt the kid's feelings (again), OR it's about how bad and tight money is b/c: he's so unpredictable that you don't know if you'll be able to make ends meet, you cannot rely on him for child support or maintenance b/c you have no set amount or court order , and you don't earn enough as it is with a job and a half?...Sounds like you cannot afford to stay m to him.

As MANY have told you, His diagnosis, prognosis, or height, weight, childhood issues, medication, status as a WAS vs a MLCer in or out or replay OR whether he's a "flat earth society" member [b]make NO DIFFERENCE in what YOU must do. So you can stop ALL the endless questions none of us can answer. They truly do not matter.

Your GAL and PMA plan have to be the same regardless of what HIS sitch is...do you get that? Don't you see that his "why?'s are Not relevant b/c your behavioral changes are necessary no matter what He's doing or feeling? Have you actually read the DB books? I'm not trying to be mean but have you? Some of the same cycling you do is just too much with too few steps forward.
Time will reveal whether he changes but you may still NEVER understand what or why things happened. And So what? Life is short.

My h and I have reconciled now for a good 2+ years. I don't know why my h did what he did and I doubt he knows. I stopped caring. I only care about what IS and what will be created by us together. The past is over and you have to lose the scorecard and stop bringing up all the past injuries.

I don't mean that you are doing it to keep score of him, so much as you think it's to "understand the history" as if it's change something, but it keeps you stuck in the past and avoiding the choices you have got to begin making ASAP.

My biggest regret in my sitch is that I spent far far too much time obsessing about why my h was doing whatever he was doing, instead of creating my new life without h, and with my kids, living happily. I finally got there, but I wasted so much time in pain that was NOT necessary or fair to my kids.
[/b]
After 2 years in this exact same sitch, what terms have you two worked out? You say you are barely getting by, but you also say you cannot afford to divorce him b/c you cannot save up $750 to file, (Really? After this long?? If you wanted to file, you could file). Which is it? You cannot afford to stay married, sort of, OR you cannot afford to divorce OR you don't want to make a choice? (PLEASE NOTE---Not taking action IS a choice and it does have consequences. You are responsible for that).

His mood swings and nuttiness MAY be under the control of chemicals or misfiring synapses, or he's simply a moody WAS or MLCer...but why make your life and your kid's lives, completely subject to THAT?? Frankly I don't think it matters a lick WHY he's not there anymore. He's gone and has been for awhile.
I filed for a separation but I did it not do it as a tactic, but b/c I had had enough, and ALL ELSE had failed. Plus I wanted to protect our assets before he "invested" them in a scheme of his hero's. I'd say in your shoes, you are doing the "feel like crap & wait" approach, and letting your kids do it too, for too long.

Why aren't you all living lives you want to live, with fun, happiness, laughter, new people in it, and NO nasty chaos? What's it going to take before you get SO sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, that YOU CHANGE your life?

Your children are in a precarious financial position and you're letting them hang out there with you on the limb with a very irresponsible, possibly sick but definitely UNavailable man, holding all the cards. You are so familiar with chaos and stress that you "WAIT AROUND" hoping and stressing and pining and worrying...and not changing a damn thing in your life.

Take some power back. Stop letting him and his weird mood swings affect every member of your household. You have to "woman up" to this and take care of your kids and your own future. Get a new job or a better one or train for one so you don't feel so trapped. Imagine if your h had died and enough time had passed for you to start living your life happily.

What would that look like? Get detailed please. What activities would you be doing? How would you dress differently, if so? Would you take jogs or walks or attend a zumba class or other dance movement class? Would you date? Would you read more (or different) books or see films or go to the library or volunteer at a pet place, or a women's shelter, or an old folks home or hospice? ALL These things are cheap or free.. You can start some of these today. Seize the day.

I KNOW you're depressed but you know there's more to that than brain chemistry. Been there, done that. I get it. But I took people's advice b/c I did not want to keep feeling sick & tired. Sometimes it's "fake it til you make it". You come here asking for advice but it's only the tiny minute things you act on.

The big picture stuff like GAL, having a PMA, getting help to change your depressed state-taking your T's advice on cognitive work too-- and planning a future for yourself without your h, are skimmed. BUT that's the real work you have to do. Until you do this work, the rest of this is wasting precious time. Life is short. your kids are going to be out of the house soon. What are their memories of home life going to be like?

You've gotten some great advice here. Start taking the advice. Stop saying you "can't" or "HE WON'T..." and be in charge of your life from this day forward. And hey, It's a hell of a lot more attractive than being a needy, sad, angry woman with a low self esteem radiating...


Let him go. Work on you. Focus on yourself and reassuring your kids you're going to be there for them. Don't put them in a position to have to reassure YOU...they need you and you are the parent. You can do this. You are stronger than you know.


So now I have NO clue what to do about the card and him not paying. NC means not texting him and reminding him again this month, which is the only time I do contact him anymore. Any advice?

As for interactions with your h, even if only by a note to you, go ahead and ask him in a way that makes him live "up to" the obligation b/c you can ask in a way that reflects that you have faith in his meeting an obligation. Then when he pays, you THANK HIM. Yes, thank him even when he toots his horn. Why?

[color:#FF0000]I'll tell you why. My DB tasked me to do something I found very hard to do but damn it if it wasn't GREAT ADVICE, and darn if she wasn't right. She said "men need affirmation & an MLCer really does b/c he'll feel a lot of guilt, etc". Plus, in the event of a the Hope for a reconciliation, he needs to know that the road home is paved and smooth. To make it so, you need to "applaud loudly for the 1% of what he does that is positive..." so even if it's "the least" he can do, in your eyes, SAY "THANKS" and mean it. I know it's hard to do! But it matters.

Otherwise you are creating a mountain for him to climb by implying that so much water is under the bridge that nothing he can do would ever make it up to you or the kids...And he's come out and said that right to your face. My DB coach was brilliant and I'm telling you that even though I do not see signs your h wants back in, he DOES want your approval and validation. Don't withold it. That's a mistake even if it "feels right". That's anger talking.
You have made it clear you think he's let you down and devastated you and the kids big time. Though it is true that he has done that, it's not the time to bring it up since you claim you want a recon IF he gets healthy. So, applaud healthy steps even if they're baby steps. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU DONT' MOVE FORWARD GAL, AND IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU BECOME A SNIVELING DOORMAT...it just means what I said. Hope this 2 x 4 helps b/c you are in a dark place now, but you really can get out of there if you choose to.

[/color]
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[color:#6600CC]Last time I texted him saying "H, loan is past due and if we don't pay it today we will be charged fees. Thanks W"


If he pays it, thank him and say it in a way that suggests you understand "times are tough all over and you really appreciate him keeping his word on it". It'd be a 180 and might encourage him to man up more. And it would contrast the negative image he has of you always being hard to please, with a warm woman who expresses gratitude for kindness and responsible gestures.
Posted By: irishblessings Re: MLC or not? - 10/29/10 10:29 AM
Wow GF - this is AMAZING advice (that I needed to read as well / over and over and over again:)!!!

Move forward - for YOU and your kids!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/04/10 05:13 PM
25 and Lance,

Just wanted to let you know that I did text H and his response was "oh well". I'm not paying a penny.

Then H went on to say he was dropping me and my S20 from his benefits. I asked why and his response was, well the D will be over Nov. 6th anyway so I'm dropping the both of you off on the 10th. I asked H to please keep us on because I can't afford benefits here at work, and this was the only way I was surviving.

H's response was "oh well", again. So anyway I called my lawyer and he told me that H couldn't do that and that he would call domestic relations and let them know about the court order from Feb. 09 that he was to supply the benefits on all of us.

I decided to call H and ask if we could work something out so we didn't have to go to court again. He was angry at first, then he was joking around saying we couldn't get together that night because he was watching his girlfriend's child. I just said ok, and to let me know when we can get together to discuss the financial stuff. Then he says to me that he was only kidding he isn't watching anyone and that he's not seeing anyone, but he needed to go to bed cause he had to go to work very early.
Talk about head games.....but I didn't react like I would have in the past with crying or anything. Just said ok, and that I had to go and goodbye.

Well, domestic relations messed up in Aug. 09 when we had to go back to court for our D14's braces cause H said she didn't need them and he wasn't paying anything for them. H was furious in the hearing. Anyway he has to pay 60% and I have to pay 40% every month. They attached his wages and added it to the child support he pays. But they didn't put the paragraph in from the older order that he is to supply the benefits. My lawyer tried to get it fixed over the phone but no luck. So off to court again and H is furious again.

H had filed for a no-fault Jan. 09 within 2 months after leaving. That day I got the papers I called him and asked why, and why didn't he let me know. He said he was just mad that day and he didn't want it. So he thinks that on Nov. 6th (2 years of separation), the D will be final.

Well, he must have contacted a lawyer, I should say a new one because his other one dropped him because of his lies as far as drinking and driving with our D14 in the car and not following the rules in the custody agreement. Because now he is saying that the D will be final Jan. 22nd, which is not true either.

But 25, I do get child support I took H after 4 weeks after separation. Anyway, he was so mad about the hearing that he called yelling at me so I told him that I was hanging up if he couldn't be civil. So I had to hang up on him.

Then just Tuesday night he calls again and is a little cocky but not as angry, and I asked about the loan this month and he said he didn't know if he was going to pay on it or not. Then he goes off about the hearing coming up and so on. When speaking to him on the phone he goes from being ok, to joking, to trying to get me jealous, to getting angry all within a few minutes time.

I told him that I didn't want to take him back to court but he never contacted me about discussing the issue so I didn't have a choice. That I can't go without benefits and can't afford to pick them up here at work. I calmly asked him if he was going to pay on the loan again this month because it was late again and they are charging us fees everyday it's late. He said he will see, cause he needs to get a lawyer for the hearing and then got angry so I told him I needed to get off the phone because I don't deserve to be talked to that way and I wasn't putting up with it. He calms down and asked a question about our D14 then within seconds he comes off that he is involved with someone and that once his ex-girlfriend from 16 years ago leaves her H they are going to get back together. WOW!! They broke up because she was cheating on him right before she got pregnant for the 2nd time and he wasn't sure the child was his and had him tested and everything. He called her every name in the book, never got along with her....you name it, his family wouldn't even allow her in the house when they were dating. So all I said was that I had a funny feeling he wanted to go back with the ex-girlfriend and he got mean and said yeah right you know nothing. I'm not involved with anyone, and I'm not getting back with her but we are best friends now. All of us are best friends, her husband, me and her. I just said, well that's nice I have to go and I hung up.

With the DBusting thing and yes, I read the book I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as my sitch goes with my H.

So anyway my emotions got the best of me I got so angry for the first time in so long, and I got sick and tired of being upset and texted him that I can now move on and not worry about my vows and could have sooner if he would had let me know that he was seeing someone (against Dbusting), I told him that I didn't think he would ever grow up, and that all he worries is about money and himself. I told him to man up and help the family he left with nothing. And then said how him and both sides of his family are two faced. They all claimed they hated the ex and now love her and welcome her into their homes and what a joke all of them are. I thanked him for telling me the truth and said I finally feel free and also told him he wouldn't ever hear from me again no matter what!

I also blocked his number so he couldn't text back or call. Do I regret it now? YES, but a person could only put up with so much. I did the nice thing for so long, and it was like he was taking advantage of me, and would throw digs in whenever he wanted to, and made me upset a lot, he had full control of me and I let that happen! This went totally against Dbusting, and also Standing for my M. I might as well as give up on trying to Dbust for a long while although I will still Stand for my M. I will just take day by day because God is the only one that can turn this around. The hearing is on the 8th but my lawyer said he will go and that I don't have to be there. I told him I didn't want to see him because I know how angry he is going to be and I can't handle it, I'm too fragile. Do I wish I could be like everyone else on this board? YES, YES, YES, but I'm sorry I can't be. I had a breakdown and was out of work for 3 weeks, I guess this is only for the strong because I'm very very weak and 25 is right. I haven't got anywhere at all in the past 2years. Years ago, I believe I could have handled this better but for some reason I can't, I believe it is because I was never alone before and Standing for my M and Dbusting you don't date or anything like that. Not that I even have the urge to do so.

25, if my H would have died instead of leaving like he did I really believe I could have moved on a lot faster and better. The reason is because I would have believed that he loved me and that's what counts the most. Hearing from him that he hates me and just 2 weeks prior when we were discussing the benefit thing he threw in there something about us getting together again (cake eating, if you know what I mean), and then said he couldn't go through that again and never mind. I didn't say a word to any of it. I know that I would try my hardest not to go there because I hurt soooo much after we were together in March, and a friend of mine said he must have too, or he wouldn't have brought it up and then said he couldn't go through that again.

Thanks everyone for your responses and all of your advice and for being there for me, but I lost the game. I just can't do this anymore. I stayed off of the board for a while thinking that would help also, but nope. Nothing helps the pain. I thought this was all about busting your divorce, not moving on with someone else if it doesn't work.

One last thing 25, I did always thank him when he paid on the loan. I even thanked him ahead of time for paying 1/2 of D14's soccer and telling her that he was going to buy us groceries and guess what happened? He didn't go through with it. I really believe my sitch is soooo different from everyone else. Because like I said before, no matter how I act H is not satisfied at all and goes from personality to personality in minutes, sometimes seconds.

It's like my H is mentally ill or something awful. I contact him about loan he gets mad, I don't contact him he gets mad. He isn't the same person, he is a very angry person towards me. He hates me and there is nothing I can do to change that, Dbusting can't make him even like me. All I have is God now. I am in a very dark place and want to get out, but it is very very hard to do.

Thanks again! Sorry so long!!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/04/10 05:18 PM
I wish I would have read 25's advice before all of this happened but I wasn't on the board until today. And this all happened on Nov. 2nd. And the reason I blocked his number from calling or texting me back was because he kept texting and texting with all mean,rotten, and hurtful things. I did unblock it though because when D14 is with him and if something happens I want and need to know.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 11/07/10 01:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
25 and Lance,
YLast time I'm posting a detailed answer b/c I think it is wasted....Some 2 x4's coming and I hope this helps SOMEONE out there if not you...Please listen..

Your post is unecessarily detailed b/c it's repetitive in content and the story repeats itself..what he said or did and then lied and how you hung up or asked him why and blah blah blah MORE OF THE SAME...why you can't see this, I don't know...


Just wanted to let you know that I did text H and his response was "oh well". I'm not paying a penny.

Then H went on to say he was dropping me and my S20 from his benefits. I asked why and his response was, well the D will be over Nov. 6th anyway so I'm dropping the both of you off on the 10th. I asked H to please keep us on because I can't afford benefits here at work, and this was the only way I was surviving.

H's response was "oh well", again. So anyway I called my lawyer and he told me that H couldn't do that and that he would call domestic relations and let them know about the court order from Feb. 09 that he was to supply the benefits on all of us.

I decided to call H and ask if we could work something out so we didn't have to go to court again. He was angry at first,

MORE OF THE SAME. LET THE LAWYER HANDLE IT. HE JUST TOLD YOU YOUR H CANNOT LET YOU AND SON OFF THE BENEFITS. NOTHING ELSE TO TELL....YOU CONTINUE TO ENGAGE AND ENGAGE AND CONTACT
AS IF SOMETHING YOU TRY OR SAY THIS TIME, WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IT HASN'T WORKED...


Just said ok, and that I had to go and goodbye.

Well, domestic relations messed up in Aug. 09 when we had to go back to court for our D14's braces cause H said she didn't need them and he wasn't paying anything for them. H was furious in the hearing. Anyway he has to pay 60% and I have to pay 40% every month. They attached his wages and added it to the child support he pays. But they didn't put the paragraph in from the older order that he is to supply the benefits. My lawyer tried to get it fixed over the phone but no luck. So off to court again and H is furious again.

SO WHAT IF HE'S FURIOUS AGAIN?...SO WHAT?? WHAT'S HE GOING TO DO--, DIVORCE YOU?? Oh wait, he already is...what if he began respecting you?? What if you actually STOPPED having your life revolve around him and how much you're letting him "victimize" you and the kids?? What then? You'd have to fill your life with your own life!!

H had filed for a no-fault Jan. 09 within 2 months after leaving. That day I got the papers I called him and asked why,

and the point of the question, after ALL this time, was what? Oh wait, I know. To get his attention, to try and change his mind, to PURSUE AND PURSUE SOME MORE...THE definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over, and expecting a different result...that's you GF...

and why didn't he let me know. He said he was just mad that day and he didn't want it. So he thinks that on Nov. 6th (2 years of separation), the D will be final. BLAH BLAH BLAH

Well, he must......not true either.

But 25, I do get child support I took H after 4 weeks after separation. Anyway, he was so mad about the hearing that he called yelling at me so I told him that I was hanging up if he couldn't be civil. So I had to hang up on him.

Wait...You got child support? What's left to fight and harangue about? Some details about debt? That's what the lawyers are for and if you say you cannot affor the lawyer OR that the lawyer LEFT SOMETHING OUT, that should not cost you much at all. Tell the lawyer to make the correction. End of story. NO NEED TO CONTACT H ON ANY OF THIS SO FAR...NOT ONE REASON...

Then just Tuesday night he calls again and is a little cocky but BLAH BLAH BLAH MORE OF THE SAME....not as angry, and I asked about the loan this month and he said he didn't know if he was going to pay on it or not. Then he goes off about the hearing coming up and so on. When speaking to him on the phone he goes from being ok, to joking, to trying to get me jealous, to getting angry all within a few minutes time.

AGAIN, NO REASON TO CONTACT H. CALL YOUR L. NOTHING GOOD COMES OF ANY OF THESE CONTACTS...YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE...THIS IS CRAZY AND YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE INSANITY...THAT'S A FACT YOU CAN CONTROL.

I told him that I didn't want to take him back to court but he never contacted me about discussing the issue so I didn't have a choice. That I can't go without benefits and can't afford to pick them up here at work. I calmly asked him if he was going to pay on the loan again this month

THIS WAS ALREADY ASKED & ANSWERED BEFORE AND YOU GOT NOWHERE! STOP PURSUING HIM. STOP..JUST STOP....CALL THE LAWYER B/C YOU SURE CANNOT AFFORD TO NOT HAVE THE LAWYER. YOUR H WILL COMPLY WITH COURT ORDERS OR GO TO JAIL. I THINK HE'LL PICK COMPLIANCE AND GOD KNOWS NOTHING YOU'VE SAID HAS GOTTEN YOU ANYWHERE. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR LIFE WITH THIS...IT'S NOT HEALTHY...YOU REALLY ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE INSANITY IN YOUR LIFE...THE QUESTION IS, WHY??

because it was late again and they are charging us fees everyday it's late. He said he will see, cause he needs to get a lawyer for the hearing and then got angry so I told him I needed to get off the phone because I don't deserve to be talked to that way

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HAD TO SAY THIS TO HIM? (JUST IN THIS POST IT'S 3 OR MORE TIMES) YET HE STILL DOES IT? SO...YOUR COMMENT THAT YOU DESERVE BETTER, WHILE ALSO CALLING HIM AGAIN AND AGAIN, WHICH SHOWS YOU'LL TOLERATE THE CRAP FROM HIM B/C YOU KEEP ON CALLING GRASPING AT HIS SCRAPS OF 'MINIMAL CIVILITY' AND CALLING IT PROGRESS....JUST STOP CALLING HIM.

and I wasn't putting up with it. He calms down and asked a question about our D14 then within seconds he comes off that he is involved with someone and that once his ex-girlfriend from 16 years ago leaves her H they are going to get back together. WOW!! They broke up because she was cheating on him right before she got pregnant for the 2nd time and he wasn't sure the child was his and had him tested and everything.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP HEARING THIS TYPE OF TRASH, CALL JERRY SPRINGER...NONE OF THIS IS INTERESTING OR USEFUL. IF YOU WANT TO GET HEALTHY AND HAPPY AND SET A NORMAL EXAMPLE FOR YOUR KIDS, THEN START TAKING THE ADVICE GIVEN HERE. I FEEL LIKE I'M TALKING TO A PLATE. YOU READ AND READ AND THEN GO AND ACT THE SAME WAY...FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS...YOU NEED MORE HELP THAN THESE POSTS ARE PROVIDING...NO OFFENSE, BUT YOU MUST LIKE BEING MISERABLE. YOUR BEHAVIOR IS ADDICTIVE AND CO-DEPENDENT IN THE EXTREME...SAD REALLY.


He called her every name in the book, never...BLAH BLAH BLAH got along with her....you name it, his family wouldn't even allow her in the house when they were dating. So all I said was ..... said, well that's nice I have to go and I hung up.

With the DBusting thing and yes, I read the book I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't as far as my sitch goes with my H.


WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY DBING BEHAVIOR OF YOURS IN THIS POST?? I SEE ZERO DB-ING..."Damned if I do and damed if I don't..." refers to what? Your h? He's not the isssue! Stop engaging him and you'll be DBing and that will stop ALL this crap from being in your life which is consumed by insanity and back and forth insecurities. This is Jerry Springer carping about tiny little things and not so tiny but nothing about YOUR Personal growth. I don't see it. Sorry but you are SO STUCK and it is by choice. This post shows 10+ examples of you choosing to be stuck...engaging in this type of contact is, to put it bluntly, sick. Hope you'll get help soon. Life is short and you've probably spent a chunk of it in "Cheeseless tunnels"...


So anyway my emotions got the best of me I got so angry for the first time in so long, and I got sick and tired of being upset and texted him that I can now move on ..... I told him to man up and help the family he left with nothing. I thanked him for telling me the truth and said I finally feel free and also told him he wouldn't ever hear from me again no matter what!

We'll see. Maybe you won't contact him...Or maybe he'll want to see if he's still got you on a rope & he'll call or email (ALL For his ego, NOT for reconciliation) and I fear you'll lap it up and hope he throws you a scrap of attention
He might even say "sometimes he misses you or still loves you..." and you'll be "confused" by "The sudden change"...but there is no change, and the divorce will march along without a pause. Sorry but that's how I see this.


I also blocked his number so he couldn't text back or call. Do I regret it now? YES, but a person could only put up with so much.

I spoke too soon. You regret it now? Already? Good grief...

I did the nice thing for so long, and it was like he was taking advantage of me,

No kidding...


and would throw digs in whenever he wanted to, and made me upset a lot, he had full control of me and I let that happen! This went totally against Dbusting, and also Standing for my M.

Yes...and it is still happening. You are giving him ALL the power even after my lengthy time consuming post to you. You went out and did the exact same stuff again. I'm very frustrated.


I might as well as give up on trying to Dbust for a long while although I will still Stand for my M.


Exactly when did you DB? What behavior was detaching or GAL or having a PMA? I just don't think you get DBing conceptually but I am sure you don't get it, behaviorally.

I will just take day by day because God is the only one that can turn this around. The hearing is on the 8th but my lawyer said he will go and that I don't have to be there.

Don't go. Do what your L is suggesting and do not go. Get a good explanation from your L as to what was decided and move on. Period.


I guess this is only for the strong because I'm very very weak and 25 is right. I haven't got anywhere at all in the past 2years. Years ago, I believe I could have handled this better but for some reason I can't, I believe it is because I was never alone before and Standing for my M and Dbusting you don't date or anything like that.

You don't understand DBing if you think this is a hard fast rule and your h has filed for divorce. You seem to think and act as if "standing" really is standing still. It's not. It's more like shutting the door behind you but not locking it. But you don't keep turning around to see if he's opening it. You move on with the assumption he's gone and not coming back BUT that you are going to be happy in your new life. And if he ever catches up to you willing to do the work HE needs to do, b/c you already will have done yours, then you can assess. But since you are not doing YOUR work and he's surely not doing any of his, I think you need to only focus on you.



25, if my H would have died instead of leaving like he did I really believe I could have moved on a lot faster and better. The reason is because I would have believed that he loved me and that's what counts the most.

Nope. No way, I don't buy it. It's your ego. And you control your ego. And whether he ever loved you is NOT "what counts the most" NOT would his dying "prove" he loved you once, NOR would his present behavior prove he never did... People change. Sometimes they change back SOME but they are never the same exact person they once were. You are simply letting your feelings of rejection blind you to the upsides of his absence and ONLY focusing on the negatives.

Hearing from him that he hates me and just 2 weeks prior when we were discussing the benefit thing he threw in there something about us getting together again (cake eating, if you know what I mean),

YAWN...he's an alien. Stop engaging.


Thanks everyone for your responses and all of your advice and for being there for me, but I lost the game. I just can't do this anymore. I stayed off of the board for a while thinking that would help also, but nope. Nothing helps the pain. I thought this was all about busting your divorce, not moving on with someone else if it doesn't work.

You hoped there was a "secret" that was relatively easy to do, a guarantee that if you siimply said or did the "right" thing, he'd be all better. But it's NOT that easy. Nor is it that fast. Div Busting to me, is about TRYING TO SAVE A MARRIAGE by doing the ONE thing YOU can do...which is to change who YOU are, and how you relate to those in your life. The only ONLY person YOU can change is YOU. But Then, when you are a different person, the R's you are in with others, by definition, change too.

If a m cannot be saved, then DBing is about grace under fire and becoming the best person you can become. Keeping your dignity. Modelling for your children what it means to respond with honor and strength and to put your own pain aside to make a better world for your children so that when THEY are betrayed someday in life, you can show them what real strength is. DBing is about how You become a woman only a fool would leave. If your ex is too blind or too far gone to see that, so be it. IF you want there to be a next time, then the next man won't be blind or too far gone, b/c you are a woman only a fool would leave. (And if you DB at all correctly, then You won't pick another fool)


One last thing 25, I did always thank him when he paid on the loan. I even thanked him ahead of time for paying 1/2 of D14's soccer and telling her that he was going to buy us groceries and guess what happened? He didn't go through with it. I really believe my sitch is soooo different from everyone else. Because like I said before, no matter how I act H is not satisfied at all and goes from personality to personality in minutes, sometimes seconds.
Your sitch is no different than 80% of the ones here. Most people who stay stuck a long time say that their sitch is "So unusal" as if it's harder than others. Yours is not the worst here. It's your choice to be stuck that is unusual. I just have not seen you DB for any length of time or in any meaningful way.

DBing has not failed you. You didn't ever really want to "Get it" b/c it meant that YOU had to change, with NO guarantee he will. And your is perhaps mentally ill, like MANY other WAS's here. That does not mean you stick by him, b/c no Al Anon coach will tell you to stay with a drunk b/c "alcoholism is a disease". B/C they know that it hurts others, it infects them. Your h's behavior has infected you and the kids. Enough already. Be done with the crazyiness and pain. Surely you are aware that without him things can only get better. Honestly, aside from financial issues that are NOT unsolvable if you stand firmly with the law, what's going to be worse than all the insecurity and back & forth WITH the h? Is it the times you have "hope"? I think that keeps you stuck. It shouldn't but it does.

It's like my H is mentally ill or something awful. I contact him about loan he gets mad, I don't contact him he gets mad. He isn't the same person, he is a very angry person towards me. , Dbusting can't make him even like me. All I have is God now.

Though I don't see much change in your behavior I think the man your h is now, is not bringing much to the table of marriage. He's not much to lose, frankly. I say that not to be mean but to show you that your loss is what?

Money issues can be best resolved by lawyers since you won't get anywhere with him otherwise AND it's less stressful AND it's what lawyers are for AND your L said he'd go to the next thing anyhow.
Other issues...your h is a liar, he is selfish and a cheat and has a cruel streak in him AND he's a drinker. You really miss THAT?

Of course not. You miss what he either once was but is not now, OR you miss what you hoped he'd become but he didn't. So your "loss" really isn't a real one.
Do you understand that comment? IF so, then recall that "WHERE THE HEAD GOES, THE HEART WILL FOLLOW..."

Remind yourself you did not lose much and you have everything to gain by moving on. I am sorry you are hurting but I KNOW ONLY YOU can get yourself out of this. That's so clear. Decide...DO...Be happy.




Thanks again! Sorry so long!!


Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/08/10 04:12 PM
Thanks again 25! I give you so much credit for making it through and divorce busting your own marriage!

You are very right, I am stuck, very stuck. I let H pull me right down with him. I'm probably further down than he is.....I'm going through a clinical depression because I was hoping and praying that my M would be reconciled by now.

I do know that I need to work on myself as far as PMA big time. It's just all of the mean things he has said and done to me over the past 2yrs. that I have my self esteem down to 0.

I am working just to get through the day, this depression thing really can take a person down to the pits. I need to take day by day. Where I was getting confused was the standing for my M. On rejoice ministries they tell you to pray and pray and no one knows but God which I believe can heal a hurting or dead M. And yes, she did move on as far as taking care of her children and having a life. But they also say you should tell the spouse that you have forgiven them and that you are sorry for the part you took in the M failing. Which I have done. But also to be there for them, because they are hurting big time. And on this site and in the book and says not to contact them. Also here like you said above that I need to do what I need to do as far as finances. On their site, it says that the Lord will provide and not to make them angry if they miss a payment of any kind.

I guess that's where all of my confusion comes in. Plus as far as I know to this day he hasn't cheated.

I know I have to move forward with my life, and like I said above I will and just take day by day.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 11/08/10 05:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
You are very right, I am stuck, very stuck. I let H pull me right down with him.
I'm probably further down than he is.....I'm going through a clinical depression because I was hoping and praying that my M would be reconciled by now.


If you were your H would YOU want to be with someone that is clinically depressed?

Do you think he doesn't know this?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 11/08/10 05:50 PM
GF,

I understand there's a lot of value to some of what Rejoice minstries says but it does not fit all situations NOR do they claim to. They don't support staying and praying about an abuser, for instance. They don't advocate merely praying and praying and waiting or standing still. Don't be confused by their urge to have faith, and think that conflicts with DB advice.

Here's how I looked at it. For me, rejoice ministries meant it's fine to have hope. But the prayers were NOT for specific "shopping list" to God. We can't impose that on Him. The prayers I prayed were for God to give me strength to face whatever may come, and that HIS will be done, that I rise to meet any challenge, and essentially it was the Serenity prayer. I felt that was the message from rejoice minstries AND a lot about forgiveness, which I think is mandatory no matter what happens to our M's.

I do not think God wants ALL marriages to be saved (unless the abuser completely changes I suppose). See my point? He wants us to be happy and that means keeping commitments WHEN WE CAN...even though it takes two to make a marriage work, sometimes it really only takes one to end it. And there are times you cannot do much about it, or at least there are times you get to the point that THEN AND THERE, there's not a lot left for one person to do. Sometimes things have gone too far for too long and then what God wants, I assume, and hope, is for us to create new lives for ourselves. I doubt he wants us to watch our exes remarry and have a new family and still pray each night for their return and do nothing else in our lives. Do you think that's what rejoicers are suggesting? I really don't.

SOME people look to rejoice minstries as a way to pray and do nothing else.
Don't fall into that trap. Some people actually blame RejMin for their confusion about what to do or not do--(not saying you are, but you might if you don't watch it.) I don't see the two approaches as that different but IF THEY ARE IN CONFLICT TO YOU, then you'll have to choose one. Can't chase 2 rabbits at the same time, etc.

Are you getting help for the clinical depression? Do you see that aside from getting good counseling (and there's a sliding scale for it in every state so there's no way someone cannot "afford it") although granted, you might get your first choice.

But aside from real treatment, as far as how you "act" in front of your h, you must not let him see all the pain. For one, guilt will backfire, as you already know. Second, it's unattractive. Third, and perhaps most important, "faking it til you make it" DOES work some.

Just being more cheerful, more polite too, more friendly, forcing yourself to see the upside of things Actually makes one feel better. And it ALSO tends to bring more positives into your life. Like reaching out to someone often brings out more people reaching out to you. We get out of life, what we put into it.

You can do this GF. Really.
j
Posted By: sgctxok Re: MLC or not? - 11/08/10 05:52 PM
Your thread is very large, please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 11/08/10 10:03 PM
hey sgctxok,
Sorry to delay the new thread AND though it's not my thread, I'm curious. How do we start a new one and not lose the old one? Or do we just take that chance and name the new one "part 2, 3, etc" or some such thing? thanks and sorry if this delays anything.
Posted By: LanceSijan Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 12:09 AM
25 you can link the new one and the old one and they will stay on the boards for quite a few years.

I don't know how they decide what to delete but there are many posts still in the archives.


To link threads.
Copy URL from 1st page of old thread and paste it on new thread.
Then copy URL from new thread and paste it on last page of old thread.
When you are done, hit the notify button and ask moderator(Virginia) to lock thread for length.

Hope that helps.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 05:21 PM
Thanks Lance and 25. I am getting help for my depression and believe it or not I think I made my H think a bit.

I don't really think he knows about my depression. And 25, you are so right. I think I fell into the trap of rejoice. That's why I didn't file for spousal in the beginning, I didn't want H mad because I had already filed for child. That is just one of the things I was doing to follow rejoice.

I have not seen my H in a long time and the last time we spoke was last week when he told me he couldn't pay part of the loan because he had to get a lawyer for the hearing about him keeping me on his benefits. H has had full control of everything for the past 2yrs. And last week when we spoke, he wasn't even making sense. I took care of all the bills etc. And I was trying to explain to him that if he took the insurance that wasn't as expensive as the one he has now that it will end up costing him more in the end. I couldn't get it through to him. Although he is ADHD, and I did have to do all of this when we were together.

And he was pushing buttons again, saying he was involved with someone but then going to get back with his ex girlfriend like I mentioned and she is married and when I said to him that she is married and what the heck was he talking about he turns around and says that they are best friends now. H, exgirlfriend and her husband. He was not making any sense at all. Then the week before he said he was watching his girlfriend's kid and then said he was only joking.

What the heck is this all about? Is it to see where he stands with me since I made it look like it was fine with me or should I say that I didn't cry for the first time and just acted like I was alright?

Is it too late to start DBusting all over again? And not get the 2 confused as far as rejoicers and things go? I want and still have hope because why else would H want to see if I care or not about what or who he is with....and that is the only thing I couldn't understand about rjoicers. How the heck do you watch our spouses remarry and have another family and not move on with your own life? I know we are suppose to be married till death do up part but I'm divorced already due to physically being abused and mentally abused. I really don't think God wanted me and my S20 to suffer like that anymore.

I don't know how to start a new thread. Lance????

Sometimes things have gone too far for too long and then what God wants, I assume, and hope, is for us to create new lives for ourselves. I doubt he wants us to watch our exes remarry and have a new family and still pray each night for their return and do nothing else in our lives. Do you think that's what rejoicers are suggesting?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 05:25 PM
25, yes that is what I thought rejoicers was suggesting. The last paragraph above. I tried to edit it but it was too late. Sorry.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 05:53 PM
Don't know or care if that's what rejoicers mean to say, though I seriously doubt it. What's important is the rest of the paragraph. Time to move on and for what it's worth, I happen to think whatever chance does exist for a recon with your h is, it'd be by moving on anyhow.

and fyi, there are many ego related reasons for an ex to "care" about what you feel regarding him. They do not necessarily mean he's up for a recon AND EVEN IF IT DID, wouldn't HE need to do a bit more than ask you a few nonsensical questions or probes? Please tell me he'd have to actually DO something proactive and UNambiguos to earn any trust with you.
I don't see his comments as indicating anything but weirdness and confusion and some thoughtless mindgames. (SIGH)

Once again we go back to basics, MOVING ON and GAL which IS DBing...and a healthy thing for you. I'm no expert, but heck Yes I think that's what God wants for us. He's not into making your life hell on earth forever. But He does help those who help themselves too. YOu've been stuck too long/
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 07:58 PM
Yes, I have been stuck too long 25. I'm going to do what I told H I was going to do and that is move on. I'm going back to GAL and if God wants us to recon it will happen when H decides to do something proactive like you said above and stop listening to outside influences and doing what they think is best for him.

I know this isn't part of DBusting but with the last text I sent him I told him to man up and help with the family he left with nothing or I was going to move on and go to court for the benefits and spousal support. I just got so fed up with him trying to hurt me in anyway he could.....bringing up exgirlfriend, knocking my son down, knocking me down, saying his family said I was the biggest mistake he ever made and he agreed.

But I put up with this anger for a long time. The second year has been the worst. At least during the first year of separation he would call and check on us and we would communicate a little here and there. But ever since he got back with his real mother and that side things have gone down terrible. Although he was thinking about us dating in March but then took that back again, and said he didn't think it would be a good idea.

So, I thought I would switch things around (180), and told him to leave me alone and to help with the bills that are in both of our names and to man up. And to only contact me if he can be civil or nice and that I would not be contacting him anymore.

I really meant it that night, and yes I'm still sad and scared but I got tired of him calling all of the shots! Being nice when he wanted and being nasty when he wanted and I would have to put up with it. Well, no more! I will pray, just read a post that took up to 3 Years because she was basically doing the same things I was doing and she and her H are back together. So I will continue to pray and give it to God. There is nothing else I can do from here. H will have to be the one. I've done this for 2yrs. now.

Thanks 25
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: MLC or not? - 11/09/10 09:06 PM
no problem and I wish you luck. I hope also you'll simply implement the no contact rather than announcing it. Now, if he contacts you to get you back into contact he "wins" b/c he gets you to back down again on your own promises. No reason to "tell" someone you're done or moving on. Just do it.
And did you offer contact IF he does live up to his financial obligations? I cannot understand that. Why not simply enforce the laws and stop the bargaining? He's not really "paying up" in any meaninful way.

Are you prepared to live HAPPILY without him? I sure hope that's your plan now.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/11/10 07:46 PM
I plan on not contacting him at all. And no, I didn't offer contact if he does live up to his financial obligations.

I'm going to do my best and live happily without him but still pray to God to take over because I am too tired for H's control and games. I'm praying and hoping that the Holy Spirit touches my H's heart and he starts living up to the obligations that he owes to me and the children.

I'm not even going to the hearing on the 17th, my lawyer said he will go and for me just to be near the phone in case they need to ask me something.

If H wants me and the children back, he is going to have to be the one to change now. I've changed, although I don't think he has seen it due to the fact we haven't seen each other in months. And told him last year that I was sorry for my part in the separation. And that I forgive him for what he had done to me and the children. But that's all I could have done.

I'm now leaving it up to God, it is in his hands! He is the only one that can turn this around!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/22/10 08:34 PM
Well, had hearing and it was continued. H said he is not keeping me on his benefits so we go back on Dec. 16th. And today my lawyer called to let me know that H is mad because with him dropping me from his benefits he will have to pay more in child support and also my lawyer filed for spousal support because I get a waiver for not taking my benefits. I told H that I would pay half of the increase he had to pay but he refused so I had no choice but to take him to court.

So my lawyer told me that H's lawyer wrote him a letter stating that I can have the house (that we owe on for 20 more years) if I pay for the consolidation loan and he wants the D to go through. There is no way I told my lawyer that I'm doing that and he agreed and said it is just because H doesn't want to have to pay spousal support.

I know H has a big issue with anger depression and also has learning problems so he doesn't get everything (understand I should say), but he even told me when he filed for the no-fault that the only reason he did it was because he was really mad that day.

My lawyer told me not to worry because it will take at least 9 to 12 months for things to be final but he doesn't get how I feel. I know H is sick and I've been standing for this M for 2 years now and if this is also a MLC plus his anger depression I just want him to get help.

I love this man, I should say the man he was before he became a MLC'er. Well, I still love him just not the way he is now.

He was coming around in March then all of a sudden he got worse and worse. So I guess God doesn't want this marriage saved or maybe he doesn't think I deserve this marriage to be saved.

I'm very very confused today. H was just at the house for the first time on Sat. night and he asked if he could talk to me for a couple of min. and I told him that I didn't have time because I was getting ready to go out and he asked again so I said ok and stepped outside. H didn't even talk, it was like a switch went off in his head. H was drunk and just stood there telling me how much he hated me and other mean and nasty things. So I asked him to leave and he wouldn't so I went into the house and locked the doors and he left.

I turned things around the past couple of months and it just made everything worse. All I'm trying to do is protect me and the kids and H thinks that all I want is money when it is him that wants the money. He even said it the day he left. He wanted to have money to pay cash for everything, and go on vacations, and was sick of living paycheck to paycheck.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/23/10 05:03 PM
Well H went to the place where my sister works and said Hi to her and she went off about what H did to me on Sat. night. She was at the house when H showed up.

He asked her if she would please call me and ask if I would call him because he needs to talk to me. I waited a while and texted him and told him if I got a chance because I was busy I would call him. But the text came back. Here he has my number blocked. So I texted my sister and told her that there is no way for me to call or text him cause he has my number blocked. I have NO clue why he did that cause I haven't made any contact with him.

So he starts to call my phone over and over again. I finally answer it and he starts to tell me that he's not dropping me from his benefits and that he told my lawyer that in the hearing at the end of it I should say. I wasn't there, cause I don't have any time at work and my lawyer said I didn't need to be there which is also a 180 for me as far as not going to a hearing.

I was on conference with the hearing and I did not hear my H say anything like that and I'm sure my lawyer would have told me.

H also told me he was sorry for Sat. night and he was wrong. Wow, the first time he said he was sorry for anything in the past 2 years. And also told me that there is no one in his life and that he tells me that sometimes because he knows it will bother me. Then he says to me that he was going away for the holiday and I said that our D14 will be upset, then he comes off with well, no one will have to worry about me again soon.

I didn't ask what he meant by that because the last time he said it to me months ago, he just said never mind. I told him we need to get together before the next hearing and try to work things out because I don't want to take him for everything, I just need to survive for me and the kids. He told me, he will contact me before the 16th which is the next hearing date for support.

I told him that I needed to go because I was running late and he made a noise like he was mad about me getting off of the phone. And I also told him that he would have to let me know a few days before he wanted to get together so I don't make plans. Another noise.

A good friend of mine said to me, I wonder if he is reaching out for you to say you want to work things out, because you are no longer crying and GAL and acting as if the stuff he has been doing is not bothering you.

I said to her, I have NO clue and I doubt it. And that he is only worried about how much money he will have to pay because it seems like that is all he has been worried about. And he makes almost 3 times what I make. She in return said, exactly. Now he sees that the grass isn't greener on the other side. And that he said when he was leaving he wanted to have cash in his pockets and to be able to pay for vacations in cash and was sick of living pay check to pay check. And him moving out, didn't work out the way he thought it would, run from his financial responsibilities like they were going to disappear.

Any thoughts anyone?
Posted By: warriorshadow Re: MLC or not? - 11/23/10 06:04 PM
Quote:
Any thoughts anyone?


MLC=Confusion

Quote:
I told him that I needed to go because I was running late and he made a noise like he was mad about me getting off of the phone. And I also told him that he would have to let me know a few days before he wanted to get together so I don't make plans. Another noise.


I think you are doing this right ^^^^^^^^

My W gets the same way when I do this and it must make their
imagination run. After all, you should be miserable right??
You are making him angry that you have more on your plate
than thinking about him.

It seems like you (me too) have to balance it a little once in a while.

Your end game is not to punish but love from a distance.

Quote:
Then he says to me that he was going away for the holiday and I said that our D14 will be upset, then he comes off with well, no one will have to worry about me again soon.


My wife says stuff like this and will purposely ride without a
helmet when riding motorcycle with her brother. Warped way of
thinking. (Takes lots more risks and says at least you are still
on my (her) life insurance).

Still seems like a lot of running away behavior to me.

Quote:
A good friend of mine said to me, I wonder if he is reaching out for you to say you want to work things out, because you are no longer crying and GAL and acting as if the stuff he has been doing is not bothering you.


I would be very careful of this ^^^^ too. It seems like you are.

Remember, you don't want them back if they are not done.

Can't imagine having to go through this again if they come back
before they are done with the crisis.

WS
Posted By: jon2911 Re: MLC or not? - 11/23/10 07:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Goodfight
Now he sees that the grass isn't greener on the other side. And that he said when he was leaving he wanted to have cash in his pockets and to be able to pay for vacations in cash and was sick of living pay check to pay check. And him moving out, didn't work out the way he thought it would, run from his financial responsibilities like they were going to disappear.


This is good insight GF. I've seen this happen almost every time in the D process. You sound a lot stronger and better. You really do.

I don't like that he showed up drunk at your house, but you did the right thing. Good job, keep posting!
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/23/10 08:16 PM
WS, It seems like I am what too? And no I don't want him back if he isn't finished. No way. I do love him and I'm standing for my M but I can't live with him the way he is, but I don't see how he is reaching out to me.

He had his lawyer write to my lawyer like I mentioned above stating I can have the house if I pay on a big loan we have.

Hi Jon,

How are you doing? I haven't heard from you in a while. I'm getting there Jon. Jon, you said that you've seen this happen almost every time in the D process. Do you also think that he sees it (the grass not greener)and is trying to get me to ask him about working on things?
Posted By: warriorshadow Re: MLC or not? - 11/23/10 08:49 PM
Goodfight,

Quote:
I said to her, I have NO clue and I doubt it.

It seems like you are careful because of ^^^^^ this up there.

That is a good thing cause you know he is not finished.

WS
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/24/10 08:29 PM
WS, thank you for clearing that one up for me.

Hope everyone has a Happy Turkey Day! smile

I will have to check out your thread WS.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/30/10 06:55 PM
I need advice really fast. H is proceeding with D after he found out at the hearing last week that he will have to pay spousal support and more child support if he drops me from his benefits.

I have to go to my lawyers tomorrow and either contest or agree.

I read on Standing for your Sweetheart that if you are standing to contest but then on another site it said not to contest and give the MLCer what they want.
Posted By: TAMF Re: MLC or not? - 11/30/10 07:18 PM
This is your financial security we are talking about - do what is best for you and your kids. contest.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 11/30/10 08:29 PM
TAMF, check on the new thread that I wrote on also please.
Posted By: Cadet Re: MLC or not? - 11/30/10 08:45 PM
Originally Posted By: TAMF
This is your financial security we are talking about - do what is best for you and your kids. contest.


YES! smile ^^^^^^^^
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 12/01/10 03:38 PM
I'm afraid as far as DBusting goes on these forms.

I have to check off whether

A I do not oppose the entry of a divorce decree
or
B I oppose the entry of a divorce decree because and the only option I have on this if I check it off is because the M is not irretrievably broken. Because we have lived apart for 2 years so I can't choose that one.

I really need help on this one. Will it push H away if I oppose the D or will it show him that I'm willing to try to save this M.

Or do I go the other way and pick I do not oppose the entry of a divorce decree and just wait it out to see if he changes his mind and wants to work things out?

I'm really confused on this one everyone. Advice please.

I'm not giving up on the spousal or the child support.
Posted By: jon2911 Re: MLC or not? - 12/06/10 07:13 PM
I think it's important to understand the difference between legal stuff, which really doesn't matter, and the relationship.

I was in a similar situation August of 2007, and my C showed me a couple Bible verses and said this:

"Right now she thinks you're the problem, and that divorcing you will solve it. There's nothing you can do to change her mind. Give her what she wants".

I'm talking about the Waiver of Service here. I was dragging my feet and trying to make it as hard as I could, making her have the sheriff serve me papers, etc.

It doesn't mean giving in to all demands, but really don't get worked up about contested vs. not, the reason, etc. This is paperwork, nothing more. It has nothing to do with reconciliation or relationship.

I know for me, when I followed my counselor's advice (one of the hardest things I've ever done), things started to change. She could stop being mad at me for dragging my feet, and realize I wasn't the cause of all her unhappiness. She got right up to the last step, I signed everything, and she never finalized.
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 12/06/10 08:09 PM
Thanks Jon. I contested, well my lawyer had me contest because I don't believe in D but also so I can get spousal when I start getting it for a while longer. So it was for financial reasons and my beliefs.

My problem is I don't know what to say to H if he asks why I contested. Any suggestions???

I also posted on my other thread. I don't know why H is kissing butt. Could use some help on that one too.

Can you check that post out too and let me know what you think?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 12/06/10 08:21 PM
What does it mean when a MLC'er says after you have been together a few times during a separation that they can't meet with you in person? Anyone?

It's like he is afraid to meet in person alone for some reason and I don't know why.
Posted By: jon2911 Re: MLC or not? - 12/17/10 08:24 PM
How's it going GF?
Posted By: Goodfight Re: MLC or not? - 12/20/10 04:53 PM
Jon,

Can you read my new thread and give me advice? I can really use it.
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