It's been a long time since I have posted. I don't have much time to myself these days as I am still spending a large amount of my time taking my father to his therapies (he suffered a stroke in July). Anyway, I thought I would post an update on my sitch for some possible encouragement to those out there wondering if any of them really do come back…
My H is planning on moving back in with me as of the end of the month. He told me and our C that he is 80% sure that he wants to come back and he gave his 30 day notice for his apartment yesterday.
Next February will be the 3 year mark since he left. It has been a long road with lots of twists and turns including him filing for divorce...and I am sure there are still more twists and turns to come. My H's pending return is not due to the long overdue epiphany I was so sure he was going to have...it is because I drew the line. I told him he had until the end of the year or I was done. I understand that giving ultimatums is usually not the way to go with someone having a MLC, however, I was (and still am) at the point of not really caring which way this relationship goes. I just know that I have been in limbo far too long and I have to move forward either with or without my H. I am sure it helps that my sitch is probably less complex than many on this board…there has been no known OW and my H never went too long without trying to make some connection with me. As I have become more emotionally disconnected from my H, it has become clearer to me that he does not want to lose me.
If this would have happened 2 years ago, maybe even a year ago, I would have been ecstatic…now, I am unsure. I have become comfortable living on my own (with my kids). I don’t need my H or any other man in my life to make me happy. Why do I feel that I need more than this? I enjoy my H’s company most of the time but I am perfectly okay when he leaves. When he moves back, it will not be like it was when we first were married with all the anticipation and newness of everything. When he moves back, we will have to readjust to being a couple again and tolerate each other’s little quirks. Plus, I am quite sure he is still not entirely finished with his MLC. He is still quite self-absorbed much of the time.
Wish me luck.
((((Upside))))
Good to hear form you!
I hope your Dad is doing well or at least as well as he can be.
As far as your H moving back, I do wish you luck. Mostly I wish you happiness.
You have done so well for so long and it's still a long road ahead of you.
Take care and thanks for the update!
HUGS
Up,
: )
I think you're going to be fine. The fact that you are wary is, I think a great thing for you.
Welcome to the wonderful world of pie(r)cing.
It sucks.
It is wonderful.
The sex can be great.
Don't let him step over your boundaries, but do not be vindictive... there are so many tricks to pie(r)cing.
You have my ear and advice anytime you need it.
Upside, I wish more people on this board would follow your example. Most people just don't seem to get it. Waiting and hoping, and not setting firm boundaries will not bring the Spouse back. It will only encourage them to keep doing what they are doing.
Up
I agree with Jack. There will be many ups and downs. Some days you will feel like "what the heck am I doing this for?" Yes,the sex is great. He has to earn your trust back and it will and like Jack says don't let him overstep his boundries.
This is the hardest part but worth every minute of it!
Y
Upside, Thanks for the update. I am glad that you are in a place where you can feel you will be OK even if it does not work out. I agree that some skepticism is good, but as the book says, look how very far you have come!
J3B are you on the alt universe(fb)
Upside
so good to hear your update
Yes a long road it has been
Im happy yours did turn out this way
good is ahead you have done amazing
also hope your dad is getting better
keep us posted!
peace
Yup, just not it much. Are you a FAN of Divorce Busting in said universe? So am I. Really not hard to find.
Thanks to all of you for your encouragement.
My life has been crazy busy through the holidays but I am hoping that the new year will be less hectic.
Today is my H's deadline for moving home however there is no real indication that he will make that deadline. He just got back from vacation with his D (3rd year of going on vacation at Christmas). He also didn't give his written notice to his apartment managers until Dec.10 so he has some time to get out of his apartment.
My H does have some clothes at my house but has yet to move anything of significance over. I've barely spoken with him in the last week while he was on vacation and when I spoke with him when he got back last night, the conversation didn't go well. I had to stop by his office today and he didn't seem very excited to see me after being gone a week. No hug or kiss of any kind. I'm feeling uneasy about him moving back...maybe I am just reading way too much into everything. Maybe.
I thought he was really making progress and starting to reconnect with me before he went on his vacation. I'm not feeling that right now. Is it him? Is it me? Both? Is he acting distant because the deadline is here or is it because he just spent a week with his D who doesn't like me?
I just need remind myself to relax and let whatever is going to happen happen. No expectations still!
Happy New Year to everyone here.
Upside,
It's a combination of both of you. Some Mlcers will state that they want to come home, etc., and they will drag their feet on this. By his actions today, I would say he's not ready to return home. He's picking up on your anxiety about the situation. You need to step back and allow things to progress naturally.
I know you really want him to come home, but he may be having second thoughts on it right now. This is one of the hardest things for the lbs' to experience. They are so close to reconciling and coming back into the home and relationship and yet, they still have two toes on the other side of the door.
Accept him for who he is right now and understand that the less anxiety that you show and yes, impatience w/his movement of belongings, the better off everything will be. During this period of transition, I cannot emphasize enough that patience has to be practiced almost hourly.
Step back and allow God to finish working on him. Take the pressure off of him (you may not even realize he feels pressure), and allow him to make the first move. Continue being his friend for now. Drop the bread crumbs so that they will lead back to your door where the candle is burning in the window to light his way.
Hi Upside,
Great to hear an update from you. Did you have your kids for Christmas? Hope you had an enjoyable holiday, even without your H around.
You have handled your situation so well for so long. I also think now is a good time to take a step back. Think about if you are really going to follow through with being done with H if he doesn't move in with you. Sounds like you are still willing to give him some time, which is probably what he needs.
Jack, I hear you. They are pressure and MLCers and pressure don't mix.
Snodderly, thank you for your great advice. I know you are right however I'm just not sure I have anymore patience left in me.
sh, my Christmas was nice and my kids were with me part of the day. You are right, my H does need more time and there is a big part of me that says time's up!
New Year's Eve my H showed up as planned. He was acting uncomfortable so I asked him if he was freaking out (about moving back in). He said he was but that he didn't want to talk about it. Eventually he seemed to relax some. We went out and had a nice evening. The next morning, my H gets up and seems anxious. Tells me he left some laundry in his washing machine at his apartment so he has to go and put it in the dryer. I disappointed thinking that we would either be spending the day together or he would be moving things over. Nope. He ran and hid. We talked on the phone later but that didn't really go well. We agreed he would come over the following morning. We talked for hours but resolved nothing. He says he loves and he can't imagine his life without me but he isn't 100% committed to moving back in. He says he doesn't want to lose the solitude he has when he goes to his apartment. I told him that he needs to find ways to find the solitude he needs when he is here. He claims it won't be the same.
My H said his less freaked out but yet he is still stuck. Can't move forward...can't move back. He wants to keep me in limbo hell with him and I'm just not sure I can do that anymore. I feel like if I just continue to give him more time, he will just continue to find more excuses. I feel like if I give him more time, I'm not following through.
When he left yesterday, he said he was going to go and process everything that was said and that he was going to call me today. I tried to let him know that I was done but I don't think he believes me.
There is a part of me that wants to believe that if I give him more time, he will come to his senses. Then there is the other part of me that thinks he will continue to do this as long as I let him and the only way out is if I show "tough love".
Snodderly, I know I have not been handling the situation the way that you recommended. I wish I could but I just don't have it in me to accept everything on his terms anymore. You have seen so many of these situations. Is there ever a time when "tough love" works?
We have a MC session scheduled this week. My H suggested we go and see what the C has to say. I told my H no, that it wouldn't change anything. Now I am wondering if we should go. My other option is just to start moving forward with my life without him. I am not sure what to do.
Tough love will not work in this situation. When you are having conversations w/him about moving back, you are putting far too much pressure on him. He's not ready to come back, he's given you the excuse of having time alone, etc. When this man is ready to move back in, there will be no excuses given.
Impatience will be the downfall of such situations....this is the hardest part of your journey....you want him home now and yet, he's almost there, but not quite. Give him the time he needs if you really want him to return...What's 3-6 more months? You've been flying solo this long, can you continue to move forward and live your life w/o him being under the same roof for a few more months? Many, many people become so impatient at this time and screw up their chances of reconciling, i.e., they opt to file and get on w/their lives or they continue to push and the Mlcer will dig their heels in deeper and stay right where they are at, thus, a longer time in the over, so to speak.
Tough love does not work for the MLCer.
Upside:
Hello, I have never posted to you before, but I have read your thread and have great sympathy for your situation.
Do not feel bad about setting up boundries. Being out of the home 3 years is quite a time, tho I know MLC can last, commonly 5+ years.
On one hand you are advised to GAL, but you are also supposed to hold your life while MLC'r flounders.
Sounds like he wants the security of a "mommy"/wife/home, but not the commitment of being a husband.
He says he is 80% sure? Sure of what? What is his 20% of confusion about? Does he say?
I am rooting for you!
Snodderly-Thank you for your response and trust me, I hear what you say. I just can't express how difficult this is. I am so torn. If I knew it would only be another 3-6 months for my H to come home, I would be willing to accept that but there are no guarantees he won't come up with a whole new set of issues that will keep him away. If he still were confused about how he felt about me, then I could clearly see that I had no option but to be patient if I still had hopes of working things out. He admits he loves me and wants to be with me, so why is he so afraid of making the next logical step? It is frustrating and disappointing to me that does have the guts to make that step and there is a part of me that thinks he is actually going to have to lose me to see things clearer.
My H talks about how he has let women control him all of his life and he doesn't want that to happen again. Since my H has had total control over the last 3 years, he doesn't want to give that up. I can't go on not having any control. So here we are.
I do see exactly what you mean about him digging in his heals if he feels me push. I don't want to push him and I know it doesn't help. I just can't stop myself sometimes because the running and hiding has gotten so old. How someone can realize that they love another person and want to be with the other person but they can't let their walls down enough to let the person that the love in?
I have backed off and will continue to but I don't know to what degree yet. I'm not sure I want to take his call, if he calls. I am still considering the MC option.
kickme-Thanks for you support. You are so right about my H wanting me for the security of a "mommy"/wife/home all the while he has no committment of a real husband. I sometimes wonder if he needs to "lose" that before he will come to truly appreciate it but I hear what snodderly is saying too. It is all so confusing. As far as the 20% of my H that isn't sure about the M, he has said in not so few words that he has issues of control. I've tried to explain that we need to try to find new ways of dealing with things so that we can be together and both be happy. He agrees but isn't ready to go there.
I think Snodderly is right (always a good bet) but the reconnection from what I have read is a gradual process where he might run out of the tunnel get scared and run back in. You have to be patient and let him finish the whole process. You could be so close. I would think that you need to take it as it comes and keep your expectations low.
I know its hard but you can do it!
For now, he needs to find ways to be a husband, partner and friend to you.
It all takes time and you've been at this for a long time and I hear you about being frustrated, but you want him completely "done in the oven" before he returns. You don't want him at 80%, but you could settle for 99.9%. If he were to come home now, he would most likely run again. That would be so much more painful for you.
If you have time, try to do a search on DebM. Her husband was a bit like yours, i.e., standing in two ponds with toes in both. It took her husband a while to finally make the move home. Now, I want to caution you, if your h does return home and keeps his bags and boxes packed...don't unpack them! They need to have the control over this and they will do it when they feel like they can live within their own skin.
Control issues? He still perceives you as trying to fix things. You will need to step back, stop making suggestions and let him take the control back in his life. I know you are trying to help him, but he is seeing it as trying to tell him what you both are going to do. In other words, he thinks everything will be the same ole, same ole when he comes home...you the fixer, etc.
Do something different...don't be so readily available...let his calls go to voice mail and return the calls later. If he asks where you have been just say out or I've been busy working on whatever in your home. He knows that you are there for him, but he needs just a little nudge in knowing that you are not going to always be there at his beck and call and be his fixer. Can you do this?
upside
you have come so far and are so close
you can do it- what snodderly says
If you dont see it though you wont know for sure
it isnt a waste of time
you can always move on at any time
if you can fins a way to hold on
it may work better than planned
b/c U wouldnt want H back if he is not totally done
I think this is a situation where trust ing yourself comes in
meditate
listen
either way you will be ok and a winner
peace
Snodderly-
For now, he needs to find ways to be a husband, partner and friend to you.
I think this is the most frustrating part. He is still in such a selfish place that I'm not sure he will ever be able to be a husband or a partner.
You don't want him at 80%, but you could settle for 99.9%.
My H made the 80% comment to the C a month ago and I believe was moving closer to me up until his Christmas vacation. You are right though...I don't want to settle. My H told me the other day that he isn't 100% sure about moving back. I told him that I deserve 100%.
Control issues? He still perceives you as trying to fix things.
You are right again. He does have fears that things will be the sam ole, same ole but deep down he knows I have changed and have learned to be more accepting of things for what they are. My H still claims that he has let women (mother, girlfriends, XW, D & me) control him all his life and he isn't going to let that happen again. On some level, I understand what he is saying but if we are ever going to move forward, he needs to let all the baggage that he has heaped onto me go and start fresh. I'm not sure he can.
I did look up some of DebM's posts. It was recommended to her to go dark at some point. If she did, it wasn't for long. It sounds like her H transitioned back fairly quickly in comparison to my H. My H has been fence sitting for a couple of years now. We have been in MC now for almost 2 years. However, the M issue has been somewhat on the back burner for the last 6 while I have been helping my father recover from his stroke but now it is time for me to do something different regarding my M. I wanted to start the new year moving forward with my life...I was hoping it was going to be with my H. I did make it clear to him that I needed to move forward with or without him. My H never called yesterday...I guess I am not surprised since I told him not to. I gave him a reason to run and hide this time.
Do something different...don't be so readily available...let his calls go to voice mail and return the calls later. If he asks where you have been just say out or I've been busy working on whatever in your home. He knows that you are there for him, but he needs just a little nudge in knowing that you are not going to always be there at his beck and call and be his fixer. Can you do this?
I can but maybe it is too late. Maybe our hours of talking the other day pushed him away for good. I am not sure. We talked about him take his things from my house but he couldn't seem to deal with it. He told me to give everything to the Goodwill (although I know he didn't mean it). I can accept whatever happens but it just makes me sad that 2 people that seem to love each other can't seem to work things out.
I struggle with the fact that my H is still a broken man and with the uncertainty that he will ever truly heal. I just know I don't want to spend my life like this and I don't want to spend the rest of my life without a partner. I don't know what my next step will be. I'm back to detaching, GAL and focusing on myself and my kids. It won't be that hard.
Thank you for helping me through this. Sorry I have not always been the best at taking the advice that has been given to me...I suppose there is still a part of me that thinks my situation is different. I need to stop that.
(((peace)))
Your encouragement always means so much to me. Thank you. Sorry I have not been there for you...I hope you and your kids are doing well and enjoyed the holidays.
I think I just need to focus on me now and let whatever is going to happen, just happen. The events of the last few days really threw me even though I must say they were somewhat expected. I am feeling stronger today.
I know you and snodderly are right and that my H isn't totally done. I don't want him back if he isn't completely committed to this. I don't want him back if he is still looking for excuses as to why he doesn't want to be here.
I am just in wait and see mode. I'm not going dark but I don't think I should make any attempts to contact him. What do you think?
You are absolutely right that no matter what happens, I will be ok...more than ok!
Hi OldPilot-
I have had this feeling of being "so close" many times before. That is the most difficult part of this. Things get better but then he backs off. This is the closest we have gotten to actually reconciling. I am just afraid that this could go on for years and he will still never make it to the "other side". Thanks for the encouragement.
I was thinking that maybe I pushed knowing that he would back off because I knew he wasn't ready. Maybe pushed to see how committed he was to the relationship and I got my answer? Does that make sense?
I told myself that I was going to move forward now that it is a new year...but here I am back in wait and see mode...ugh!!!
Maybe pushed to see how committed he was to the relationship and I got my answer? Does that make sense?
Yes it makes sense. I think this phase is the hardest on the LBS. You need to leave a trail leading home but not push too hard. It seems there is no clear cut way to react.
I certainly can not tell you what you need to do for you. I would hope that it won't go on for years. But I definitely can offer encouragement.
You have the advantage of knowing your H does not want to be controlled. Back off completely so that when he thinks about it, he'll see that you are not trying to control him in any way.
Your H has already given his notice on his apt, right? So all you can do right now is wait and see what he will do.
Seems like when you put less focus on the M (like you said you did over the last 6 months), H was moving closer. As soon as the questioning began, your H backed off again. Doesn't seem like he's ready for you to focus on the M, so just keep focusing on yourself.
You are definitely at the hardest part, IMO. But you've done it for this long - hang in there!
(((Upside))) - It's good to see you back. I came back to get help through the holidays, and have checked on you from time to time.
I hope your father continues to do well. I know how stressful and consuming caring for a parent can be.
I lost my father at the beginning of what now seems to be the end of my marriage. I've often wondered if my father's death was the catalyst to H's MLC. Knowing that H was turning to OW when I was dealing with it all makes it all hurt more.
I wish I could say I didn't feel the pain as much as I did when I first came here----but I do. I can say that it doesn't consume me as much as it used to, but when it sneaks back up on me it's overwhelming. Having a full time job helps keep focused on other things---and dealing with all of my extra responsibilities around the house and working full time keeps me from doing anything for me. I don't know how it's supposed to be done.
I understand the feeling of being ready to move forward. I can't even imagine 3 years! It's been 18 months since my H moved out. Although he has e-mailed several times that he's done and ready to move on, he has not filed, or pushed for a D. Part of me thinks it's all financial (or that he just wants me to do all the work), since he has made it quite clear that he is DONE, but in any case I'm still standing with very weak knees. I can truly say that although I still love H with all my heart, I don't like the person he has become. I wish there was a way to know what person he will be when this is over----or if it is over for him, and this is who he is now.
Anyway, I'm rambling. I do hope you are doing well and I hope that 2010 will have the answers for both of us-----whatever they may be.
Upside
I saw your post and had to respond. I too went through exactly what you are going through with my H. This is the hardest part of the journey!!! I was getting so fed up with excuse after excuse from my H. Snodderly help me get through this part and gave me the encouragement to hang in there. I am so glad that I did, my H is a wonderful, loving, caring man again!
My H told me he needed more time and he moved into the barracks at the prison for 6 months or so and that is when we really started to reconnect. He called all the time and I never called him. I didn't ask what he was doing when he didn't call. I left the ball in his court. He started spending more time at home and finally he moved home for good. It was his decision. It still took a while for him to put back on his wedding ring but when he was ready he did and didn't say anything to me. When I saw it I gave him the biggest hug and kiss!! We had turned the corner, finally.
You can do this! It's so hard but you can do it! Take a deep breath and put the ball in his court. Don't mention moving home, let him bring it up.
I'll be checking in on you! Your in my prayers!
Y
Upside,
Is this limit you have for moving forward with or without H just a way of saying you are further detaching? Its not like you'd run out and marry the first guy you dated...maybe it just means you are dropping the rope and what will be , will be and you'll be OK no matter what.
If H came out of the fog in a month or two and you were still interested then maybe the reconnection would happen then...??
Upside,
You have run the long race, when at the end you are exausted, you want to quit.
Can you see the finish line? You must dig a little bit deeper,
and pull up that last bit of endurace to finish the race.
You have been at it a long time, dont quit when you could be so close to the end. If you were to quit now you could spend the rest of your life wondering "what if".
Focuse on your life, give him the time he needs to finish baking,take the pressure off of you both. Have an attitude of "I'm starting a new life, would you care to join me?" don't feel like your waiting for him, have some fun, keep moving on with your life, he'll him catch up with you. This will take the pressure off of you and him, and perhaps draw him even closer.
Keep that candle burning, be happy, be strong, be yourself.
lt
OldPilot-Thanks. I know this can't go on for years because my patience is at it's thinnest point in a very long time and I not sure I can find much more.
sh-I agree that since my focus was off the M for the last 6 month, my H seemed to make progress. I'm just not sure we can go back there again. And yes, my H has given notice at his apartment however he told me that when he gave his notice, they offered to lower his rent to stay.
di-Good to hear from you. You were with your H for the majority of your life so I can only imagine that letting go is that much more difficult but you are doing well and you will eventually get to the other side of this. I, too, wish there was a crystal ball to know how this is all going to turn out. Since we don't have one, I guess we just have to continue you on with our lives like they aren't coming back. However if we are standing, the caveat is that we don't file for D or start dating.
yr-I have so many questions for you. My H told me that he was "freaking out". When I asked if he was "freaking out" and still going to move back or "freaking out" and unable to move back, he couldn't answer. I guess I got my answer!!! He left 3 days ago unable to move in any direction and I haven't heard from him since. You could say that My H and I have been "dating" pretty consistantly for over a year now and when I gave my H the deadline, he told me that was fair and made some plans to move back but then... How long did you and your H see each other before talking about moving back in together? Did you ever push? After he got cold feet, did you hear from him consistently? I'm not sure I haven't already blown it and I must admit there is a part of me that doesn't really care if I have. This is all so confusing.
kj-My H and I agreed that we BOTH needed to move forward. Our plan was for him to move back so we could work on things. When my H told me he was "freaked out", I didn't handle it well and told him I would move forward without him and there is a big part of me that wants to do just that. I have accepted everything on his terms for so long and I am just not sure I can do it anymore. If I knew that he could get past his issues within 6 months, I could accept that. I just hate to keep investing all this time and energy into something that isn't paying off. So yes, I can live my life and if he were to come out of the fog at some point, I could evaluate the situation at that time. However, the longer this goes on, my feelings for my H do seem to fade.
l.t.-You are right that I am exhausted and want to quit. I am trying to find more energy to finish the race but at this point, I'm not even sure there is still a race. I suppose I might wonder "what if" but I know I have fought so hard and so long to keep this going, I can feel good about how I have handled things.
Thank you all for you encouragement, advice and support.
<<<sigh>>>
I have had no contact with my H for nearly 3 days and I have to say that my thoughts seem to be all over the place. I bounce from I need to give my H more time to I just want to move on to everything in between. I am here because I want to sort this out. I am here because I haven't entirely thrown in the towel. It would be helpful to I know where my H stands. Is he moving forward without me now? Here are some thoughts...
After everything that was said last weekend, I can't help but wonder if my H will do finally the "noble" thing and let me go. I have told him numerous times over the last 3 years to let me go and he always said that is ridiculous because I have control over that. He could have possibly finally realized how cruel he has been by giving me false hope all this time.
or
I suppose the most likely scenario is that my H is doing what he has been doing for the last 3 years...running, hiding and avoiding.
Since I can't be the fixer here, I have no option but to wait for him to contact me...right???
I am the last one that should be giving advice.............but, remember that they have no concept of time. I truly believe that. We can only guess about how time passes for them. What seems like 50 years for us---and HAS been 3 years, may only seem like a short time for them. He may have no idea that it's been 3 days since he has contacted you. Do you contact him now? I know what the experts here would say................no.
Three days is a very, very short time in the land of MLC. If you read anything about depression, they will tell you that time is not important to them because they are lost in their own little world. Depression slows everything down for them, it messes w/their memory, life is distorted for them. On the MLC Resources All in One, I have a thread there called "Highly Recommended Reading Materials". The books I mentioned in the first few postings are exceptionally good and there are some on depression. You might want to check it out. Also, the next time the Cymbalta commercial comes on TV, pay attend to it...depression hurts...it changes everything.
Your h may even forget that your children have "aged" a couple of years since he left the rational world. When he begins to focus on life again, he will find that you are not where you where when he left and he'll discover that many things have changed, i.e., children are older, everyone around him has aged, some may even have moved away, etc. Life as he knew it will not be the same for him.
Please leave him alone. Do not call him. He needs this time to focus on his issues. The less he focuses on those issues, the longer his journey will be. When he's ready, he'll contact you.
Hey Upside,
Your right, you want to wait for him to contact you IMO.
I want to comment on your comment about his being cruel and giving you false hope. He didn't do anything. His messages have been mixed (to say the least), but you have always had the power to go if that was your choice. I know you know that.
I don't believe in "false" hope, just hope. You either have it or you don't. I suspect you do. That's not a bad thing.
HUGS
Upside
I will try to answer to the best of my memory.
Before my H moved to the prison barracks he was ready to move back home. At least that was the plan. I could see that he was uneasy about it. He told me that he thought it would be better for us in the long run if he moved to the barracks. He needed time to think, alone time, etc. I was really proud of myself when he told me this. I didn't get bent out of shape, I just told him "okay." It hurt like he11, believe me but in the long run it was the best thing. He wasn't quite ready to make the big move.
No the communication wasn't constant. I never called him, I let him reach out to me. There were days that I didn't hear from him at all. Those where his thinking days I found out later. They are at a crossroads and really need to sort through this by themselves.
My feelings were just like yours. I couldn't give a care if I blew it after a while. I had taken enough. I pushed to some extent but let the decision be his. I don't think you have blown anything. It's all a part of the process.
I know you are tired and frustrated. Just sit back and wait to see what happens.
Y
di-Thanks that for the reminder. I must admit, it has been difficult for me to shift gears so quickly. Less than a week I thought he would be moving back in and this week I have no idea what the future holds. I'm okay though.
snodderly-A long time ago, my H would always say that he thought that most women are depressed. I have no idea where he came up with that one but I do think that my H has a history of depression. My H was a premature baby and I have always wondered if there is a correlation between that and his depression. I know there have been studies that show there is a link. Also, my H's depression seems to be so compartmentalized to his personal life. He seems to function just fine in business. Is there an explaination for that?
Grace-How are you? Yes,I do know that I have the power to go BUT my H has not made it easy for me to walk away either. He continually dangles the carrot knowing that I would prefer to reconcile. I feel he does this just to keep me there...he doesn't want to commit either way so he just wants everything to stay stay as it is...so in the event he ever decides either way, his options are still open. Doesn't seem fair to me.
yr-For the time being, I am sitting back to see what happens. Although my H's lack of contact makes me feel like he is sending me the message that he has choosen his life of solitude over a life with me. I suppose that he just is just avoiding making any choice at all and there is no message...it just doesn't feel that way.
Before this happened, my H and I had been having daily contact for the most part and seeing each other at least 3-4 times per week. Now nothing. I pushed to get answers and got none. I don't know if I could go back to the relationship we had up until last week. I don't know if I can continue to sit on the fence with my H.
I know in DB recommends to try something different. I guess I am at a point where I am trying something different for my self-preservation. The way I feel right now (and I will disclaimer that with I know that could change in the next 5 minutes), I don't really want to see or talk to my H and if this M has a chance of working out, my H is going to have to come to me committed and ready to work on things. I just don't see that happening.
Thank you all again for your thoughts. This situation is so crazy. I can't tell you how much it means to me to have people who understand what it is that I am dealing with. (((HUGS))) to you all.
Hey Upside, I remember you from way back.. I was amazed to see your update and then sad to see he changed his mind. You are right, it DOES seem cruel.. my bf dated me for the best part of 8 months to turn around and go NC and date the woman at work who had been his friend at the beginning of his MLC/breakdown. I really dont think they can help it or AT THE TIME, realise how cruel they are being and how much hurt they are causing.
My bf has depression and he has since said, he was just barely functioning, he almost didnt care what happened to him, BUT he knew he had to be sensible and keep his career going and in fact, he did well in his job during the whole of our separation, despite looking like a desperate man mostly when I saw him. He was good at mask wearing - appearing ok to business colleagues and friends, but not to me, you too can see the turmoil in your H.
As for NC for 3 days, snodderly is right.. thats nothing to a depressed MLCer. My bf once did not phone me for 4 MONTHS! He did email a bit during that time, he has since said he had no idea it was so long that we hadnt spoken and he cannot explain why he stopped contacting me when in fact he missed me terribly, still loved me and thought about me all the time.
Makes no sense! Depression doesnt though, nor some of these mid life meltdowns that some men go on.
We are now back together and like Yellowrose said, he is this loving, kind, attentive guy now.. who hates it if I am MIA for over an hour and starts thinking about ringing the hospitals to check I am ok! I pointed out, but you once didnt speak to me for 4 months and now you worry if I am missing unexplained for an HOUR !?
Hang in then.. if you know you are ok anyway, then be ok. I would rather be you (and me) than have the terrible depression and stuckedness that the MLC/WAS has, knowing that they are the cause of all this and having that guilt on top too. Which, from what my bf has told me, is tremendous and weighs heavily on them every single day.
He said to me, the 2 years that he was 'gone' was just.. he felt insular, aloof, like he needed space. To think my loving best friend and partner of 14 years total could rent a flat and not TELL ME the address even, beggars belief. It really is like they are possessed or kidnapped, but they DO come through it. I was lucky in my bf came back and although still depressed, 2 1/2 years on our R is restored.
Give him space, definety dont contact him until it gets into two weeks I would say and then maybe think about some light neutral non-pressurising contact with him. If and when he does call you, be FINE, cheerful, dont add any guilt or stress. Be accepting, be cool, make it ok for him that he disappeared for 3+ days. If you have it in you to keep on keeping on that is. You know the drill right, after 3 years !! Good luck, sorry for being verbose!
Al xxx
Upside
You need to do what is good for you. I was just telling you what happened in my sitch. What I see your H doing right now is normal for a MLCer, if any of this is normal!
I flip flopped back and forth at the end also. I wanted my life back and I wanted my H in it. I also saw that I had grown so much through this I didn't know if I wanted him back or not. I didn't know if I could move past all of the hurtful and mean things I had to put up with. I wanted to throw in the towel so many times, but something just told me to hang on a little while longer. I saw the changes my H was going through each time I saw or talked to him, I knew I was on the right path. I didn't want him home until he was ready because I couldn't take him leaving again.
Hang in there!
Y
We are going on 6 days NC. This is by far the longest periods of NC we have had in a very long time and one of the longest periods of NC since this all started. I truly believed that my H didn't want to lose me, now I'm not sure he cares.
I seem to vacilate between wait-and-see to I'm done. I come here and get so much encouragement to keep on going but then I think how can I trust my H ever again?
I talked to a mutual friend of ours last night who told me he talked to my H the other day and asked if he was busy moving. My H's reply was that he isn't moving yet because we have issues. Ha! We do not have issues that are keeping us apart. He has the issues!
I understand that my H is depressed and for a long time I had faith that he would pull out of it. Now I can't help but wonder if he will.
Hi Ali-I appreciate your encouragement. I remember reading your posts from time to time. I am happy to hear your BF is back and you are both doing well. How did you keep the faith that your BF would return after everything?
Hello yr-Thank you for your insight. I have seen those little changes in my H especially in the last month or so...that is up until last week. Those little changes are what has kept me going for the last couple of years. Now all I see he is back to avoiding and running away. Yesterday I wanted to be done and today I'm not so sure...so I guess that just tells me I need to continue waiting. Grrr...I hate this!
Up
I know I hated it too. You have the right attitude and have been at this a long while. I know you'll make it through one way or another!
Y
Thanks yellowrose. Yes, I will make it through.
Seven days and still no word from my H. Today I am hurting much more than I thought I would.
I know, 7 days is nothing for someone in MLC. I just can't help but feel he has choosen a life without me in it.
Up
That isn't necessarily true. When my H did that at the end is when he needed that solitude to get himself straight. They do alot of thinking and soul searching. Hang in there!
Y
Up - what kind of "fun" things are you doing for YOU these days?? Here in MO it got to -15 last night. We've had 24 inches of snow since Christmas Eve (very unusual), and a high yesterday of 3 degrees. It's supposed to get to a balmy 23 today! I've had enough of winter and dream of returning to CA----or AZ, or somewhere with some warmth! We had 3 snow days last week (no school), and my office even closed for Thursday and Friday. I've been catching up on some long avoided cleaning and organizing. Even hanging some curtains!
I hope you're doing well.................
8 days NC...
Hi yr-Solitude seems to be what my H wants since it seems he has chosen it over our M. I wish I knew what was going through his head right now. I wonder if he thinks he is doing this for me...letting me go so I can move forward with my life since he can't. I hope for my H's sake, he can get himself straight someday.
Hi di-
I am doing okay today...better than yesterday. I keep hearing how cold it is everywhere in the country except for CA. I think it is supposed to be 79 degrees here today. Come on out...I have plenty of room.
I need to do some cleaning and organizing too. I have just been in too much of a funk to get much done.
Boy do I know funk!! I may be inching out of it a bit, because the motivation to clean really hit----and a little progress fuels the work. It's obviously not keeping my brain from working over-time. Everything I touch reminds me of H, and the fact that he's not here....................thus the thoughts on my thread.
You have had movement (in slow motion), and although I can only imagine this kind of frustration, it is movement-----despite the 8 days of NC. If it were me, I would start to wonder about his safety at this point too----any evidence that he's "ok?"
Hey di-
I have no evidence he isn't ok. I believe he is fine. I think I would probably hear something if he doesn't show up for work tomorrow but I'm sure he will.
I am really starting to think that my H isn't contacting me to do what he thinks is the right thing by me. He knows he can't give me what I want so he is letting me go like I asked him to. Too bad he couldn't come back and work on our M like I asked him to instead.
I just don't know what to do anymore. I have so many people telling me to move on. I feel like an idiot because I don't. I am afraid that if I do, my H will realize what he has lost but it will be too late. Ugh!
I've found that people who have never been "here" are very quick to think the answer is to "move on..........." Maybe that is the answer, I don't know. It just still doesn't feel right for me.
Upside sorry things aren't transpiring the way that you wanted them to. I had a feeling it was going to go this way, but wanted it to happen for you. Sadly your h isn't ready to come home. What is it going to take? Who knows?
Maybe it's time for you to just focus on you. You will never know what the future might hold. We have been at this a very long time and I finally realized awhile back that my h was never returning. I simply got tired of trying to pull someone home that didn't want to come home. That was the awakening for me.
My h and I continue to be friends and business partners. It actually is a much better R, since now I have no expectations and we talk on a business level only.
I don't know what will work for you Upside, but maybe let the R go for now and pick it up later if you choose.
You can't make someone come home. That was my life learning experience here. No matter what you say, do, think, look it won't bring them home until they truly want to return.
Best of luck but don't wait forever life is too short and precious for that!
Cheers,
Glam
di-I'm not sure I am ready to move on but I think I am ready accept whatever life brings my way.
glam-I hope you and your kids are doing well. I kind of gave up trying to "pull" my H home a while ago. Things seemed like they were good between us as long as I accepted his terms. I knew that wasn't working for me so I gave him the deadline not knowing what he would do. He agreed to move back. I was happy that we were "moving forward" but aprehensive because I knew there was something missing. Now I know what that thing was, my H's committment...he lost that a long time ago and I guess he still hasn't found it.
Anyway, I agree with you, life is too short and precious. I hope you are finding happiness in your life. You deserve it!
11 days NC . Here are some things that I think I have figured out…
1. I cannot fix this. My H is the only one with the power to fix himself and presently our relationship.
2. I am lucky that my H did not move home since his MLC is not finished. I would have been miserable if he had moved back plus he probably would have left again. He was nowhere near ready to move back and deep down I knew it.
3. I have to let my H go for my own self-preservation. I cannot live my life solely on his terms and he isn’t ready to agree to any of my terms.
4. It might be that the only way my H will figure things out is if he is completely on his own without me around to cloud the picture.
5. The only way we could restore this relationship is if my H finishes his crisis and wants to fully commit to the relationship. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. . I cannot go back to the way things were before. I cannot put myself out there only to be hurt again without reassurance that things would be different.
6. My H is weak and avoidant. I have known this for a very long time and I believe he knows it too. He would rather just go on living the way he is than to address his own issues…even if that means losing me. That is hard for me to swallow since I truly believed he did not want to lose me.
So where does this leave me? It appears our relationship is over (at least for now). I need to start living my life that way. So, it is back to the drawing board and work on me some more. Time to find new hobbies and new friends…and I may actually consider dating. I wasn’t happy living in limboland and life is too short not to be happy right?…hmmm…that sounds like I am having a MLC!
Any thoughts?
that sounds like I am having a MLC!
NO
Sounds like a LBS and GAL
Thank you Upside. I am actually doing well. Once I let go and moved on life got a whole lot easier. I too had to realize that my h was never coming home. I was on him when are you moving back, what is it going to take, yada yada yada, now it doesn't matter.
I actually have a much better R with my h now. We are in it for the kids. We are both adults and realize that some things are just meant to be. Not neccessarily the way I wanted it to go, but the realization like you said is I can't fix my h, nor can I make him come home and be with me. Once I came to that conclusion, was when life started to fall into place.
I do believe my h is still a good guy, just not the guy for me. We differ in values and the bottom line is I didn't make my h happy. Now my philosophy is that you marry for life and you make it work, but I can't put that on someone that doesn't have the same feelings and thoughts about marriage.
Life does get better it just takes awhile!
OP & snodderly-I take that as a comfirmation that I am doing the right thing. Thanks.
glam-
I too had to realize that my h was never coming home.
I don't know that I am quite ready to shut that door completely. I am just living my life. I do believe that my H will realize his mistake someday, who knows where I will be by then. Glad you are doing well. Have you filed? Are you dating?
11 days NC . Here are some things that I think I have figured out…
1. I cannot fix this. My H is the only one with the power to fix himself and presently our relationship.
2. I am lucky that my H did not move home since his MLC is not finished. I would have been miserable if he had moved back plus he probably would have left again. He was nowhere near ready to move back and deep down I knew it.
3. I have to let my H go for my own self-preservation. I cannot live my life solely on his terms and he isn’t ready to agree to any of my terms.
4. It might be that the only way my H will figure things out is if he is completely on his own without me around to cloud the picture.
5. The only way we could restore this relationship is if my H finishes his crisis and wants to fully commit to the relationship. I don’t see that happening anytime soon. . I cannot go back to the way things were before. I cannot put myself out there only to be hurt again without reassurance that things would be different.
6. My H is weak and avoidant. I have known this for a very long time and I believe he knows it too. He would rather just go on living the way he is than to address his own issues…even if that means losing me. That is hard for me to swallow since I truly believed he did not want to lose me.
So where does this leave me? It appears our relationship is over (at least for now). I need to start living my life that way. So, it is back to the drawing board and work on me some more. Time to find new hobbies and new friends…and I may actually consider dating. I wasn’t happy living in limboland and life is too short not to be happy right?…hmmm…that sounds like I am having a MLC!
Any thoughts?
[quote]
Wow this is some list! I wish someone had written it when I was here the first time around because everything listed hits home.
As far as #2 goes, you got your answer to that loud and clear when H himself went dark. Believe me when he is done you will know it.
I lead Divorce Care classes. I've seen what it does to people to have a walkaway decide prematurely that they are done with their crisis and to move home only to leave a second time. Not only does it land you back in that very dark place that we fight so hard to get out of, but what it does to us emotionally is even worse.
I used to constantly tell myself that I have to live as if he was never coming back. Eventually this does get easier and eventually I started to accept the fact that he probably wasn't coming back. Believe me, this makes living and moving ahead so much easier and happier.
I agree with Glamgirl as well with one exception. I never say never, I just go with the flow and I'm not talking about where your H is concerned, but more with life in general.
*HUGS*
OP & snodderly-I take that as a comfirmation that I am doing the right thing.
IMHO I think you are doing the right things. You have to do what is right for you. What your gut says. If this is what you want then do it. The LBS gets to decide whether to accept back the MLC'er. The MLC'er gets to decide when they are coming back.
You can not decide the timing or push it faster but you can decide what YOU want.
Never is a pretty strong word and may not be the exact, but it was more about me than him. I realized that I wanted more and deserved more. I was always left feeling like I was thrown a bone now and then. My h would come over spend time with me and the kids when it was convenient for him, but just wasn't willing to move home and make it work.
The more this went on the more resentment I built up. My h was always telling me he didn't want to come home and that I just didn't listen. Finally, I lost the desire to want him home anymore. It was like tugging and pulling on a rope and never winning. I always walked away feeling like I wasn't good enough and was left empty inside. That went on long enough until I finally snapped. The light bulb went on and I finally realized that my h didn’t want to be with me. If he did he would be in the home and making it work. I am sure there is much more to it than this, but without my h sharing and opening up nothing could ever be resolved. It has been 4 years for me. I had to evaluate where my life was at and what I wanted out of it. So you see, it’s not about h’s timeline when I say never it’s about my timeline. I had enough and so that is why it’s a never for me.
Everything is progressing forward. Let me repeat, it’s not what I wanted for my life, but I didn’t have anymore options. My h didn’t want to move home period. Now he may want that someday, but the someday was what I was no longer willing to accept. I could have been at that for 10+ years. No dating. Still working on me and evaluating who would make a life long partner.
The sadness creeps in now and then, but not for me but for the brokenness that has been left for my children. At least, I am finally at peace. The waiting, wondering, wanting is finally over. H and I make good business partners but not good life long partners for each other, if that makes sense. I am finally ok with that. I do strongly believe I will make a good life long partner for the right person and that is why values are so important in my next relationship.
Sometimes in life you have to do what you feel in your heart is the best decision. I know what I want, now it’s just a matter of getting what I want.
We differ in values and the bottom line is I didn't make my h happy.
This sentence really hit home for me. I always thought my H and I wanted the same thing. Even in this state he is in, I'm beginning to wonder if (because he has been able to do what he's done) there is too big of a difference in our values to ever make this work. Kind of a hard thing to admit.
Up - I hope you have some fun things planned for your weekend.
Upside
its been such a long road of almost 3 years now right?
you sound in a good place
moving on a bit with the door still open
maybe your H justs needs a little more time to figure it out
and in the meantime you can set yourself free from limboland
it was never in our hands although you handed it very well
you never know what it will take for him to be totally done and at the same time , you never know where you will be at that time
peace
Upside,
Luckily for you, you have such a good understanding of what's going on and what you need to do. You have no control over H, only yourself.
I haven't even gotten nearly as close to where you are, but I do feel that now is time for me to move on without H as well. I feel completely defeated, having done all the damage control I could possibly do over the past 3+ years.
Look on the bright side though - I'd rather be in our shoes than in theirs.
I used to constantly tell myself that I have to live as if he was never coming back. Eventually this does get easier and eventually I started to accept the fact that he probably wasn't coming back. Believe me, this makes living and moving ahead so much easier and happier.
Today I am having difficulty with this. Maybe it is all too new since it was just a couple of weeks ago I thought (or wanted to believe) my H was going to move home. I keep having flashes of memories and feelings that make me want to do something stupid like contact him. I have to remind myself that things would just end up the same way. I am frustrated with myself because I keep remembering the good times and forgeting the bad. Today I feel afraid to move on and leave behind the love and the history that we share but somehow I have to get out of limboland.
You can not decide the timing or push it faster but you can decide what YOU want.
Very true. What I want is for my H to snap out of his MLC and come home to be the committed H he once was. Since that is not an option right now, I have to move forward alone even if it isn't what I really want.
Sometimes in life you have to do what you feel in your heart is the best decision. I know what I want, now it’s just a matter of getting what I want.
You deserve to find what it is you want in life. You put so much effort into trying to save your family. It is so sad that your H couldn't be the man his family needed him to be. You sound strong and resolute. I am proud of you. I am working on getting there. At least at the moment, this is more difficult than I thought it would be.
We differ in values and the bottom line is I didn't make my h happy.
This sentence really hit home for me. I always thought my H and I wanted the same thing. Even in this state he is in, I'm beginning to wonder if (because he has been able to do what he's done) there is too big of a difference in our values to ever make this work. Kind of a hard thing to admit.
That is true that we can't make our spouses happy right now however, there really isn't anything or anyone out there that can make them happy. I have to wonder if our spouses hadn't run away from their committments, would they be as miserable?
moving on a bit with the door still open
maybe your H justs needs a little more time to figure it out
and in the meantime you can set yourself free from limboland
I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the door open but yet set myself free from limoboland. I really feel like the only thing that has changed is the NC and I am grieving the loss of the relationship again. This isn't easy. I have all these thoughts running through my head...Do I pack up his things? Do I file? Do I start to date? If I really want to move on, I need to do those things but I am not sure I am ready.
Look on the bright side though - I'd rather be in our shoes than in theirs.
True. Even with all the denial, they truly must be tortured souls.
Even if your spouse has remained in the home and kind of in the relationship, he would have been miserable. You might want to look up a thread that I wrote many years ago about what my thoughts were on their running away. It may help you better understand why they do flee.
I had a feeling your expectations were up a tad when he was giving you feelers about returning home. The heartache that follows when they do this puts you right back in the game of grieving, especially when you were moving along nicely. Yes, you would dearly love for him to "snap out of it", but it's not going to happen any time soon. He still has some issues to resolve and at the end of his crisis, he may opt not to return home for a long time, if ever. You need to prepare yourself for the fact that he may not return. Learn how to leave the door ajar and continue to move forward. When you take the focus off of him and put it back on you, things will begin to move again for you. Right now, you are stuck in one spot and are afraid to let go of the rope once again. There is nothing to be afraid of....you still have your memories and the history that you shared w/him. No one can take those away from you. However, the man he once was isn't there right now and you have to let him go to finish up his journey, just as your journey needs to be completed. Where your journey takes you is up to you, but do not stay in one stage very long or you will remain stuck. Grieve the loss, understand that you cannot rush this crisis and know that at the end of the day, you have done all you can and are a beautiful woman who has much to offer the world.
Upside, no one can predict what the future holds for you, but Glam posted an excellent posting about where she is and where she wants to be. Her relationship w/her h isn't what she had hoped, but she's found a way to be in business w/him and knows that she deserves better. She walked the same path you are right now....
Snodderly, thank you for tell me about the threads on running away.
Here are the links for anyone interested...
My Thoughts On Why They Run Away During Their Crisis and
My Thoughts On Why They Run During Their Crisis
Upside,
Please let him go for a while longer; allow God to have him and show him the way. You need to spread your wings and soar for a while and focus on your life, the world around you and what you would like to do in the days, months and years to come. If it is meant to be, your h will follow you.
Thank you Upside for the links and thank you Snodderly for a wonderful explanation of why the MLCer runs away.
My husband has shared what I consider verbal/emotional abuse he felt at the hands of his father growing up, and the poor self-esteem that he had as a result. He never felt loved by either parent.
I asked him if he wanted to ever talk about his feelings/perception with his parents and he said he didn't..that he understood his father was doing the best he could and there was no point looking into the past...
So I'm wondering with your explanation, Snodderly, will my husband ever heal, even if he doesn't confront or talk to his parents?
k,
Your h didn't feel comfortable in discussing the issues w/you. I sense he didn't go into great detail w/you what transpired. Discussing the issue at length would take him back and make him relive relive the pain, hurt, and disappointment. He wasn't and isn't ready to deal w/it just yet. That is the main reason he is in crisis and at some point, he will need to face what transpired and come to realize that he was just a child and wasn't at fault for what happened to him. Many will speak to the offender(s) who stunted them emotionally to try to better understand what transpired. The mlcer needs to learn to forgive themselves and those who have hurt them.
As to whether or not your h will heal w/o speaking to his parents, I would say he has a 50-50 chance. It will depend upon him to figure out what he needs and wants to do about the feelings he's stuffed down all of the years he has carried the pain, hurt and disappointment. If he doesn't speak to them, he will always wonder about that time in his life and question what he could have done differently. I would hope that he would feel safe and comfortable at some point to talk to them about it, but he may not. He may need to seek out a good "C" to assist him in walking through the land mines of his memories to help him better understand his feelings. Time will tell how he will deal w/those "ghosts of yesteryear".
Upside you will need to grieve all over again. It's like the R ended all over again. Only you can decide what to do from here. Is that standing and waiting more, keeping the door open, closing the door? There are many options and you don't need to make a decision today.
For me, I knew that the end was near. 4 Christmas's without a single phone call from my h was enough for me. He only text me on Christmas Day to say "you just don't get it". I knew at that moment nothing was ever going to change unless my h wanted it to.
I knew in my heart I wanted more, but my h was not willing to give me more. So I needed to make a decision for me, not for my h.
Most recently my h was being friendly and asked if I wanted to have sex with him. For the first time I was able to say no. Now I would have really liked that, but I knew in my heart I would be left with the crumbs not a real R.
I decided what I wanted was a h not some stranger now and then. It wasn't until I got to this realization that I knew I needed to move forward.
You will know in your heart when enough is truly enough. Take time to think through what you need to do, but my best advice is to let him come to you. Don't call, don't text, let him chase you. If he does, then you know where you stand. If he doesn't then you can ponder it for awhile and see what happens in the future.
Whatever happens you will be fine. We all get there eventually.
Remember this is NOT what I wanted for my life or my children, but knew that I would be living in la la land for a long long long long time to come. My h had stopped counseling and refused to start it up again. I felt then I had no more options.
I don't really think my h is happy. Heck he is a very depressed man, but I to see that I can't fix that. He needs to want to pull himself out of the deep dark depression. He knows that, but for whatever reason he stays stuck. I can't help with this nor can I give him advice. He mostly resents anything I suggest or do. It is seen as me telling him what to do.
Take time for you Upside!
upside
How are you doing today?
peace
Upside,
Please let him go for a while longer; allow God to have him and show him the way. You need to spread your wings and soar for a while and focus on your life, the world around you and what you would like to do in the days, months and years to come. If it is meant to be, your h will follow you.
I know this is what I need to do but somehow do it where I am no longer waiting for him. I have no problem GAL and living without him however his clothes being here make me feel like I am still waiting...and not filing makes me feel like I am waiting. I believe I have done the right thing for my H and me by making this break. I couldn't go on letting him live in both worlds. And if livng a life without me in it doesn't make him think, then it just wasn't meant to be. I am trying to find a way where I am truly feel like I am moving forward without pushing him completely away. I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet.
So I'm wondering with your explanation, Snodderly, will my husband ever heal, even if he doesn't confront or talk to his parents?
Interesting question. My h's parents are no longer living so if they are the problem (which I think there are some issues there but I'm not sure what they are), he may never choose to deal with it.
I decided what I wanted was a h not some stranger now and then. It wasn't until I got to this realization that I knew I needed to move forward.
I hear what you are saying. However, especially in the last few months, there were times when without a doubt my H here with me. The way he would talk to me, make plans with me, the way he kissed me or cuddled with me, etc., I could tell he really did care. The problem was that he just couldn't let himself get too close to me. He would let me in only so far and then he would have to run back to his apartment or to work or golfing with his buddies. I had a part-time H but that didn't work for me. In a way I feel bad that I didn't have the strength to continue on the way things were since it does seem like we were progressing in some ways but as time went on, I was just able to see his pattern more clearly.
I found this on snodderly's thread on why they run away...
MLC individuals have many things in common.
They have low self esteem.
They are very unhappy inside.
They are very angry inside.
They have a low self image.
They have suppressed their inner feelings for many years.
The seeds for MLC were planted in childhood.
They feel as if they have been controlled their whole life.
They feel their feeling were never validated.
They have feelings of being inadequate or not good enough.
They feel that during childhood they did not recieve nurturing or a special love from their parents.
They have feelings of rejection and abandonment that haunt them from childhood.
These all describe my H with possible the exception of nurturing from his parents. My H's parents passed away before I met him so I have no firsthand knowledge of his relationship with them. All I know it that my H has always spoken very affectionately about his father and hardly ever mentioned his mother. And one of the first "symptoms" of MLC I noticed in my H was his complaint that I was trying to "mother" him by suggesting to him that he take multi-vitamins! He now complains that he has let women control him all his life. I definitely think my H had some issue with his mother but I really have no idea what it was. My H claims he had a normal childhood however my H was born prematurely and was put in an incubator with oxygen which somehow caused his eyes to cross. He later had surgery to correct this but he was left with a lazy eye. My H was somewhat a loner who read a lot. My H has told me about one of few childhood friends that was killed in an accident. My H was gangly and not athletic at all...even played the tuba in the school band. I can imagine that he got picked on but he has never mentioned that to me. In high school, it sounds like he had more friends but got into drinking and some drugs. After my H left for college, my H's parents split. I think my H's father could have been depressed causing his mother to get involved with someone else. His mother married the OM. Years later when his mother's new H died, my H's parents got back together. My H's father died about 16 ago, about 5 years before I met him and his mother a year later. I believe my H went into a depression when his dad died. My H's first wife then got involved with someone else. They split and she moved away. My H dated some after they split but didn't file for a D from his first wife until he met me (hmmm...had I known then what I know now!). When he met me, he would have moved heaven and earth to be with me...well, at least for about 6 years.
I'm sure something in my H's past ties into his MLC...I'm just not sure specifically what...maybe it all does.
Some of the other issues my H suffers from are...
-mortality
-hypochondria
-germaphobia (not sure what the real term is for that)
-inability to express emotion about his personal experiences (he can cry at movies or even shed tears for his clients that have had tragic things happen to them)
-Cannot handle me raising my voice (even just to be passionate about the situation) yet he can have a yelling match with opposing attorneys)
I would appreciate any thoughts anyone has. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter because I need to just move forward. I would just like to know why he is so damaged but I may never know.
Upside,
You may never know why or how he was damaged. That is why he is on a mission to find himself. He needs to understand why or how it happened.
I wouldn't sit around pondering this too much as the answers will not come to you because you were not around him at that age. In time, he may reveal some of it to you or your children, but he's just not there yet.
It's time to partially shut the door and look to what you need to do to heal and move on a bit.
Upside,
The fact that your H claims to have had a normal childhood could easily just be denial--certainly, my H, even if he (rarely) mentioned an incident in which his mother sounded abusive, would insist that their relationship hadn't affected him negatively. Yet, her death caused his MLC, which ended when he was finally able to confront her abuse and control.
It sounds as though there are a lot of potential triggers for an MLC based on a lack of parental nurturing for your H--his father was likely depressed and therefore unavailable, and his mother's decision to remarry may have felt like abandonment. Because children tend to blame themselves for whatever goes wrong, your H probably retains feelings of guilt.
Funny, but a lot of the things you mention were shared by my H--being in an incubator at birth, witnessing a death as a child, not coping if I raised my voice (his mom pinned her anger on him), as well as the lack of personal emotion, hypochondria and fear of death. The last are all, as I'm sure you're aware, symptoms of depression.
Has your H ever been treated for depression? Is there a possible genetic component, as you believe his dad was also depressed? Do you feel that he was not depressed when you first met?
As to why he is so damaged, what do they say--95% of families are dysfunctional?
We are all wounded, in greater or lesser ways, by our childhood experiences. In order to fully grow up, we have at some point to examine ourselves, fully and fearlessly. The odd thing is, it's such a painful and terrifying thing to do ... and yet afterwards, we're left wondering, what was so scary about that? Most of your H's "damage," at this point, is that he somehow feels that he failed when he was a child, which has crippled his self-esteem, and he does not feel brave enough to confront the origins of those negative feelings. That doesn't mean that he couldn't, at some point.
In the meantime, you will feel better if you can take your focus away from the (for you) unsolveable puzzle of your H and place it back on yourself. I found that things didn't improve until I forced myself to identify and face my greatest fears. For example, I visualized exactly what life without my H would be like, aspect by aspect--first I could hardly force myself to entertain the idea, and then I relaxed in the knowledge that I could flourish. What are your greatest fears?
snodderly-I agree there is no reason for me to spend much time trying to figure out the why. That is for my H to figure out.
Cyrena-The similarities are interesting as with so many MLCers. I have asked my C if depression can be genetic and he claims it can be. My H has been in denial of his depression. He claims he wouldn't want to take anti-depressants anyway and he has managed to avoid individual C even at our MC recommendation.
I have been contemplating on how to move on yet keep the door slightly open. Yesterday on a whim, I decided to text my H to see if we could talk. He responded and asked where and when. I let him know that I just wanted to talk over the phone and we decided on a time. In the meantime, I thought about what I wanted to say and wrote it out. This is what I wrote...
I have done a lot of thinking in the last few weeks…
First I want to say that I know that you are a good person and I know it was never your intention to hurt me. And the last thing in the world I want to do is hurt you. I want you to be happy even if that means that I am not in your life.
It is clearer than ever to me that the problem isn’t me or our marriage. I know you love me and there is a big part of you that wants to be with me but your choosing solitude over me, confirms that you are avoiding dealing with your issues and that you are depressed. I would do anything in the world to help you, but the reality is that the only one that can help you is you. If you could just try to help yourself with individual therapy and possibly medication, I could give you more time but I don’t see that happening.
I feel so bad knowing whatever it is you are going through has to be awful. However, your choice to continually avoid the issues that are causing your depression has left me alone much of the time. While I can handle being alone, I do prefer to spend my time with someone.
I’m not saying any of this to make you feel guilty. My actions have always been because I do love you and I wanted to save our marriage. However, I know I can’t save this marriage alone. The hardest part of all of this is knowing that your love me too yet you are still willing to avoid your issues and pick solitude over our marriage. I try to understand why but I am not where you are. I do know I am not responsible for your happiness…I just wish I could add to your happiness, just as I wish you could add to mine.
I could hold on longer if I knew you would come back to me but I know there are no guarantees of that.
Who knows what the future hold but for now it looks like our only option is to let each other go. I hope someday soon you find the happiness that you are looking for and very much deserve.
When we talked, I read what I had written to my H and he said he wanted to cry. He said it was the sweetest thing he ever heard and it makes him realize that he is the one with the problem. He said that maybe he is depressed. He said he knows he is a screw up and that he is amazed by my kindness and understanding. He expected that I was going to be upset with him and talk about filing. He claims he had been expecting me to call him (not sure it that is true) and that he figured I was angry since we had not talked in several weeks.
When I read him the letter, I didn't expect anything to change. His response has spun me around a litlle bit but I still have no expectations. He suggested meeting tonight to talk but nothing was decided. All I know is that I can't go backwards.
Wow, that was a great letter and a great response.
I am actually surprised by his response but I guess the proof will be in the action. If he takes action on your talk then you will have really accomplished something. I think getting them to take the action is the hardest part. Once the ball starts rolling it can have amazing results. But the first push is the hardest.
Upside - I am glad you reached out to him. I know that no matter what, it must be a load off of your shoulders, and you must feel better now that you have let him know how you feel. It is up to him now, and hopefully he understands that and wants to make a change.
OP-I agree the proof will be in his actions.
di-It really is a load off of my shoulders. I have laid everything out there for my H. He claims he understands now he is the one with the issues so we will see what he does with his newly found enlightenment.
I met with my H the other night. We had a very good talk. I listened and validated. He was even open and receptive to what I had to say. My H claimed that our talk was better than any session that he has had with the C. During our conversation, I asked my H what his happiest moments in the last 3 years were. He told me in this order, watching my kids sports, spending time with his D and bbqing with me. He claims that the 2 1/2 weeks of not talking to me made him realize that he isn't happy alone either. He realizes he is more depressed than he had thought. He even talked about being able to mask his depression. He said so many things that I have wanted to hear for so long like he knows it is him, he has been an idiot, I am an amazing and compassionate person, people like me don't grow on trees, etc. He said he knows he needs individual counseling and he was going to call and get into our C right away. He said all this but then asked if I want him to file. I didn't reply to that. I did tell him that I cannot go backward to the way things were between us and he agreed. He knows that I am going to continue to move forward in my life whatever that may be and he seems to understand. He hugged me, kissed me, told me that he loved me and that he hoped he figured himself out before it was too late for us. When he left, he asked if he could call me. I told him he could do whatever he wants.
One thing that I thought was very interesting was my H asking me not to tell anyone about his depression. I think it is pretty obvious to people that are close to us.
There was a lot more said, I just can't remember it all. I'm still not sure what the future holds however, I do feel better about things. I hope this feeling stays with me.
He realizes he is more depressed than he had thought. He even talked about being able to mask his depression.
So he knows and his actions are going to be:
He said he knows he needs individual counseling and he was going to call and get into our C right away.
Will he listen to the C and take any more action? AD's would be nice.
I am glad you are feeling better about this and I hope you can keep that feeling!
Upside
it seems like a very positive interaction
and no matter where it all lands in the end atleast you and H will have a good friendship at the very least
it seems like your H wants to figure it out and really does not want to lose you
know that you handled it all very well and he is open to you and sees who you are
that is so validating for you
you loved him
he saw that
That is worth it all
I wouild have loved my story to end that way instaed of the way it did
You have done well!!
peace my friend
Upside,
You and your h had an extremely good conversation. You did well in listening and not attempting to offer up suggestions on how to fix him. He realizes that he needs to fix himself. There was one little red flag that concerns me....he said that he realized that he wasn't happy alone. He will need to understand that he happiness comes from within and no one can make him happy.
I hope that everything works out for you and he finally gets himself back on track. He's saying all of the right things at this time, but I do hope and pray that he's willing to do the actual work to get it all back on track.
OP-I think my will listen to the C however, I think he is looking for a breakthrough of some kind. Not sure if he will get there or not...in the meantime, he says he no interest in ADs unfortunately.
peace-I can't tell you how much this all tears at my soul. It still hurts to know my H loves me but still chooses to stay away. I sometimes have difficulty getting my mind around why things are the way they are. In time maybe we could be friends but would be far too painful right now. I wish your situation had not been the nightmare it has been but, at least be grateful that your H made it easier for you to move on in some ways. Either way, it is all painful.
snodderly-I, too, hope and pray that my H is willing to do the work to get back on track. Only time will tell. I have not heard from him since our talk. My H has told me numerous times that you can't depend on anyone else for your happiness. I believe that is part of the reason he is staying away now. He needs to figure this out on his own now. I was feeling better about things yesterday but today I am hurting again for some reason. I wish this feeling would go away. It is just hard to understand why someone who loves you and wants to be with you still chooses to stay away.
I think that part of why you feel the way you do right now is that you were hoping he will continue the contact. They don't. They come out, talk rationally, think out loud in a rational tone and then disappear again for a while. That's why it is a very difficult time for those who have spouses or even ex-spouses that come out for a bit and actually talk some sense. It's a moment of clarity and then they go under once again. This will most likely be the way he is until he completes the "sorting out of self". You will need to keep your expectations at zero and continue moving forward. He will pop out again very soon. Right now, he's got a lot of pondering to do as well as soul searching.
snodderly-
You are right that there was a part of me that was hoping that my H would continue contact. That is what would make sense to me (there I go being rational again
). If he really meant what he said the other night, it seems like he would make an effort to at least talk to me. It makes me feel like what he said wasn't the truth.
They come out, talk rationally, think out loud in a rational tone and then disappear again for a while. That's why it is a very difficult time for those who have spouses or even ex-spouses that come out for a bit and actually talk some sense. It's a moment of clarity and then they go under once again.
I just want to understand why. It seems like if they get it, that should be it...not get it and then run away again. I wish I knew what is it that makes them stop running and finally sort themselves out?
I believe I am doing the right thing by not letting the relationship continue the way it was. I was helping my H prolong this crisis since he was able to live in both worlds. So if I know I am doing the right thing, why is it still so difficult? I wish I was stronger and able to move forward without it hurting like he11.
Upside,
First thanks for your kind words on my thread. I am reading your sich and trying to learn from you as I go along. This is new territory for me as far as my W is concerned.
I think the only way to answer your question is to realize that the depression is still talking. I don't know whether it is hormones, or depression or what scientifically is keeping them in the tunnel but they have to resolve it before they are done. I know that until they are fully cooked they aren't ready to come out of the oven.
I certainly understand how it hurts and I wish I could give you some words of wisdom how to make it stop. Other than the basics(db'ing) it is certainly very difficult.
Try to keep putting one foot in front of the other and have a great week.
Upside,
I think part of the reason they run back in the tunnel is that they can begin to see the damage that has been done and maybe they aren't ready to face it yet and pick up the pieces. It really can't be easy.
Good point, TF. Retracing those steps requires real work and a half-baked MLCer is not up to it.
Still no word from my H even though when he left the other night, he asked if he could call. He is still avoiding.
Last week my H said he was going to call our C and get into to see him right away, I told him he could just take our regularly scheduled appointment which is tomorrow night. He said he would take the appointment. I called the C to let him know my H will be coming, not me. I am have been debating whether or not I should contact my H to see if he still plans on going but I have to let it go. If he doesn't show, that will tell me that he still isn't ready to address his issues...and if he isn't, that just confirms the necessity for me to move forward without him.
OP-I am sure it is the depression that keeps him away but I am so tired of the reasons and excuses. I have always asked my H to fight for us and he has never really been able to. If he knows he is depressed then I would think he would want to work on that. Maybe I just don't understand depression well enough.
tf-I thought I had done so much damage control over the last 3 years that there wasn't that much damage for my H to face...but I am not him and you are right, it can't be easy.
forward-I thought my H was getting pretty close to being fully baked. I guess he was just browning on the edges and still undercooked on the inside.
Checking in on you Upside. If your h is truly depressed that is a beast that is difficult to tackle. I do believe that is what prevented my h and I from moving forward. You say he should want to work on that, well when they are depressed getting through the day sometimes is a challenge. I know my h would say many times, not coming today Glam and then I am sure he just sat and stared at the walls or slept. Avoidance!
I wouldn't have contacted your h, but now that you have opened the door, let him come around. Don't chase him in regards to C let him decide if he wants to go. He has many issues that need to be resolved before he is ready to come home.
I think Upside you will know when he is fully baked. It will need to come from him that he decides to come home, not you!
I truly hope you find peace and contentment with your situation. It's not easy sitting and waiting and wondering when and if they are going to return. Don't dwell on it, live for today, it's all we really have.
Glam
Maybe I just don't understand depression well enough.
IMHO yes.
Since it is not rationale it is hard to make sense of it.
Like Jack says you can't out crazy a crazy person. You H sich is near complete. Will it ever be done? No one knows for sure. All of the information tells you this. Is it fair? No.
But it is what it is.
You have to do what is right for you!
Hi glam-Thanks for your thoughts. I have no intentions of chasing my H. My life is busy with kids, work, family and friends. I am very blessed in many ways and I am trying to focus on that. As I am sure you know, it can be so scary when you are at that fork in the road trying to figure out which path to take. I feel like if I start to take the path without my H on it, he pulls me back and I've made no progress.
OP-Good question, will it ever be done? If my H figures himself out in time and wants to come back, will he be happy again? I don't really want him back if he can't be some degree of normal, happy and committed to our M.
I got a few texts from my H today. He asked about the C appointment tonight and said he was stressed out and unable to sleep well because of work. I told him the C was expecting him and I was sorry that thing weren't going well. He asked how I was and I told him I was fine and keeping busy. He told me is going to his XSIL's funeral (out of state) this weekend. He said "I miss you". I told him that I am sure your D will appreciate you being at the funeral. I told him that I miss him too and that I hope he has a safe trip.
All this confuses me.
Oh my gosh Upside I totally know how you feel. It's like they want to keep one foot in the door and what out and that is exactly what my h said. They want you to hang on but they aren't sure how committed they can be. They miss you but not enough to move home. They don't want to lose you, but don't want to move home either, hence the confusion.
I think we are just as confused as they are. Then we start down that path as why wait and the journey gets old yada yada yada.
Step back, like you have and live for yourself for now. Your h will need to decide one day if he wants to catch up with you or not and then you will decide whether you want him back. You don't have to make a decision, sometimes those decisions will be made in time and made for us.
I saw the depression is what held my h back. He was paralyzed to take a step forward. The more I pushed the further he withdrew to the point of no return or return on his terms only. Then you have to ask what is the point of the R.
I hope this all works out for you. I wouldn't want that any other way, but I do know for sure that I couldn't make my h do anything he didn't want to. That was the biggest ah ha for me. As much as I wanted my h to return, he just wasn't going to do it by me asking and trying to get him to see my view. I do know that tactic didn't work.
I am blessed to have a friendship and business partner with my h. That is all I could ask of him and that is all he could give.
Maybe your sitch needs more time. You have lots of positives.
Cheers,
Glam
glam girl makes a lot of sense
although my R with xh never came close to where you both are/were I can relate
to the WAS wanting to keep a foot in the door
not being able to committ but cant leave either
I experienced some of that when H and I were are better terms
so maybe the decision is easy --or
no decision
just move forward and see where it all goes
maybe it be will directed to you
as life does that
peace
My ex would love one foot in my door and one with OW, that is what makes this whole scenario so sick. I could not handle it as well as I could not handle being his scapegoat for his angry feelings. It just does not work for me. He is pissed because of this.
All i can do for him is pray everynight for him and let it go.
Nothing new in my sitch other than the NC seems to be getting easier for me. It helps that I have been staying busy...except my father had a seizure in the middle of the night last night. We spent 8 hours in the ER waiting for the doctors to check everything out. As I am finding out, it is not all that uncommon for stroke survivors to have seizures. I am emotionally exhausted...maybe I just don't have enough energy to be bothered by the NC.
glam-I have been reading more on depression trying to understand it even more. I don't think I will ever truly understand unless I get to their level of depression. I feel bad for my H but, as you say, I need to live my life for me now...and it is easier for me with NC. I have considered dating but I don't think I am ready. I would just love to find new friends and new interests...however that is difficult to find the time with my kids, my dad and now work. Living life for me may actually have to wait to take priority for a few more years.
peace-I know you and your XH were on better terms in the beginning. I think he struggled with what he was doing. It is so sad for the kids and for him that he has gone AWOL. However, IMO, it is probably easier on you that way. Hopefully when your XH figures himself out, it won't be difficult to come back into your kids lives. My mother disappeared for 2 years and now we have a great relationship so it is possible.
trusting-I have never been good at setting boundaries with my H. I allowed him to keep one foot in and one foot out but in my sitch, there is no known OW. This is my 2nd M. My first H had an OW and kept a foot in both doors until I finally said enough. All these years later, I am still the scapegoat for his and his now W's angry feelings. It wasn't until I was able to distance myself from them that the harrassment stopped. I'm sure they still blame me for everything but I don't know about it anymore and I don't really care. I think you are handling your situation the best way possible. It tells what kind of person you are that you still pray for your XH after everything he has done...I must admit, I never did that for my first H but back then I didn't have a forum like this to help me understand what was going on. It does help to come here.
Upside
Hope your dad is doing better
yes it is so exhausting when our parents are sick
please just take care of yourself
peace
Thanks for the call Upside. Sorry I had to cut that short with my h's drama. Nothing came out of it, but a stealth exit with no explaination. Sound all too familiar.
Nothing has changed I am on track and will continue to move forward. The weekend confirmed that is exactly what I need to do.
Sorry about your father. It always seems one crisis follows another.
There is nothing new to report in my sitch. In another month or so, I will have to contact my H about our taxes but other than that, there is no need for me to contact him...that is unless I decide to proceed with the D...who knows.
It is strange, I miss my H but right now I feel kind of at peace with everything. With NC, I don't have to feel hurt or disappointed that he has to run off for whatever reason. I don't spend time thinking about what he is doing or what the future has in store for us. I hope I can continue accepting things the way they are and looking forward to the next chapter of my life...whatever that may be.
peace-
Thanks. I hope you are doing well. It is hard to watch your parent's health decline. I am hoping that this isn't too much of set back for my father. My mother hasn't been doing so well either. I hope things get better from here.
glam-
I think you are doing the right thing. Your H doesn't seem ready to do the work on himself. He would have to do that before you both could begin to work on your M and it doesn't look like that is happening. I wish he willing to do the work but you seem ready to move forward without him. Keep us posted and take care.
Upside
Im glad you are feeling at peace
Life pushes us forward
and as we know all things always work as divinely planned
you have done tremendous work and growth on you
who knows what will happen to your H
but if no Contact is helping you that is good
It is so much easire for me too to NOT have to see XH anymore
the house
is peacful and the business is healing
I am learning to Trust the process
Im journeling again--a freind taught me to have a conversation with God in writing and it is comforting to het direction from the Source
Hope your parents will be OK
It is very hard to see them sick especially when we are so vunerable at this time
Peace
I wish that feeling of peace would last. Today I have an uneasy feeling and I'm not sure why. I have been having thoughts of contacting my H to ask about proceeding with the D but I'm still not quite there yet. Now I'm thinking of contacting our C to see what guidance he can give since I think he has been seeing my H. I know I need to keep living my life like he isn't coming back...the difficulty is leaving that door open even just a little.
One of things that my H said the last time I saw him keeps running through my head. He said he could file for the D and hope that he figures this out in time. I just shrugged my shoulders and didn't respond. This seems to be the way that my thinks anymore where he may go with something even though he isn't committed to it hoping he will figure it out before the deadline comes. The problem has been that he continues avoiding figuring it out. I remember a long time ago our C talked to us about people changing when there is something that motivates them to change. Seems pretty obvious I guess...Today I am wondering if my H has any motivation to change now that I am no longer a distraction to his issues. Doesn't matter I guess...I need to let it go.
Peace-I like your journal idea. I find writing very theapeutic...a lot of the reason why I come here. Maybe writing to God could give me a new perspective.
Upside
How are you doing
peace
Hi peace-
I'm still riding the rollercoaster even with NC. As I posted before, there are times I feel at peace with everything and then something will hit me off and I will have a mini-meltdown. Inconsistancy seems to be the only consistancy I have.
I still sometimes have difficulty understanding how my H can say he loves me and even misses me yet he makes no effort to contact me. I know it is the depression/withdrawal/avoidance but it is still sometimes so difficult for me to understand. I've been re-reading the archives and looking up information on depression. It helps for awhile but then I go back to not understanding. Why?
I had a bad day yesterday at the office, I came home and my kids had been in a huge fight, I think my father is depressed after his seizure and my mother is having some continuing health issues. At one point in the day, I thought about trying to contact my H. I really needed him to put his arms around me for a little while but I didn't do it.
I still vasilate on whether or not to push for the D. Currently, my decision is to wait. I need to spend time with my parents and my D who will be off to college in a year and a half. For now my decision is that I don't really have to time to try to start a new relationship so what is the point of pushing for the D? In a way, this feels like a step backwards like I am still in limbo and I don't like that. In my heart, I still want my H to come home though I am not always sure why. I am trying to live my life like he is not coming back but it isn't that easy. I have really missed my H the last few days.
I'm still not sure what to do with my H's things that he has at my house. He has a lot of clothes here, all fairly new, purchased post-bomb. He left Christmas gifts, even the gift his D gave him. He has many personal items and pictures here but I guess none of it matters to him. When he left after telling me he was "freaking out" about moving back, he told me to give his things to the Goodwill. He knows I wouldn't do that. Does he think if he leaves his stuff here, there is still a connection to me? I know it is just more of the avoidance but I would think he would want at least some of his things. Should I box up all his things and store it them in the garage until he is ready to get them?
I have tried to justify my H's NC telling myself that he is doing it for me. After all, I did tell him to let me go and that I deserve someone who is 100% sure about having a relationship with me. I told him I needed to move forward in my life with or without him. Am I just fooling myself that he is staying away for me? I suppose all I need to know is that his staying away tells me that he can't be the man I need him to be.
Sometimes they leave their belongings to have an excuse to return periodically to get something, other times it is for a connection, but the one that always stands out for me is that everything he has left behind are reminders of his past life and just like an onion, he has peeled the old layer away and does not want the reminders right now.
If the clothes, etc., are disturbing you, pack them up and place them in the closet, attic or basement. Some day, he may want them, but I seriously doubt that he does right now.
Your h said on of the right words about coming home, etc., but he's not ready to take the plunge of stepping over the threshhold and coming home.
I'm sorry to hear about the situation with your parents. It's tough when they are ill. I hope and pray that they will be better very soon. If you are in no hurry for the divorce, then don't file just yet. Put your focus on your family and on you for now. It sounds like God is trying to point you in the direction of your parents right now.
Pleae take care of yourself.
snodderly,
Thank you for your support as always. Today I am searching again for the "why" in all of this...maybe because of my bad day yesterday. I understand I made the NC happen, I just wish I knew what was in my H's head right now. I wish I had a crystal ball.
the one that always stands out for me is that everything he has left behind are reminders of his past life and just like an onion, he has peeled the old layer away and does not want the reminders right now.
This would make sense to me if this was the first time leaving so to speak. The clothes that are here are part of the many new clothes he has purchased since he left. I don't see how they could remind him of his past life. Could he be trying to run away from his "old" new life?
Upside,
Maybe the new purchases remind him of what he's done to his family. You mentioned that your daughter had purchased some things for him at Christmas....maybe just seeing the items and knowing that you and your family still love him, creates so much guilt within him that he can't face those new items just yet.
I do think that he's trying to understand himself and I do think that his intentions were good about expressing a desire to return home; but he's paralyzed at this time and still needs a lot of time to himself to come to a final decision as to whether he feels he can come home and make a go of it.
My xh did the same thing, left, came back and purchased a lot of new items, left again and didn't take them with him until I finally packed them up and advised him to come and get them. As far as I know, those boxes and bags fo clothes were never unpacked in his new place. They are reminders to them of who they once were and of those individuals who gave the items to them.
BTW, no you do not want to be in your h's head. If you've ever read about children who have ADHD, their rooms are generally messy, well.....the brains of an mlcer are very messy and are misfiring. Their thoughts are never consistent, their emotions are all over the place and quite frankly, we rational folks would have a difficult time with all of the clutter and mess they are dealing with, not to mention what is going on w/their hearts and souls. So, step back from that wish, for it's not a pleasant one and if granted, you still wouldn't know what they are thinking for they don't know themselves.
Your h is running from his guilt and shame.....he will need to face those two head on before he can finally understand himself. You cannot help him.
snodderly-
I guess I shouldn't try to analyze why my H has left his things here. I just find it so odd especially that he would leave the gift from his D (from his first M) who he still has a good relationship with. She is quite content with her father and I not being together although they had a talk when he was planning on coming back and they both agreed that it is his life.
Thank you for reminding me that my H's thoughts wouldn't make much sense even if I knew what they were. I have such a difficult time remembering that he isn't always rational and his mind is in complete disarray at least when it comes to his emotions. It is hard for me to understand how he did seem like he getting it, he did seem like he is made progress and now he is completely avoidant. I guess it is all part of the turmoil.
Your h is running from his guilt and shame.....he will need to face those two head on before he can finally understand himself. You cannot help him.
I am sure this is true but how difficult would it be to face up to those things? He knows how accepting and understanding I have been so I can't help but feel there has to be more. I know my H was having anxiety when he was at my house possibly because he felt he wasn't in control here. I don't know why I still have a need to figure it out. It is what it is and I should just accept that.
I have to remind myself to just live my life like he isn't coming back. There are times when I get that and I'm okay, I question if I would even want him back..and then there are times when it hurts and makes no sense.
I did make an appointment with our C. Maybe he can help me find a consistant direction...especially if he has been seeing my H as well.
My father had another MRI done yesterday and it was reviewed by a neurosurgeon. The doctor commented on some very small spots on the MRI and called them "mini-strokes". He said there is no telling how long they could have been there since they are undectected and that it is a natural part of aging. I know there is connection belief about MLC and testosterone which is a chemical change but could be some physical changes to the brain that could cause a MLC such as these mini-strokes?
Upside,
The answer to your question is no, mini-strokes do not cause a MLC. The doctor has given you the correct information about them. In some of the elderly, they are a natural order of aging. Sometimes, they are a warning of what may occur at a later time, i.e., a major stroke. Is your father on an aspirin regiment or taking a blood thinner?
Maybe that was a silly question but strokes can alter a person's personality so that got me thinking that there might be some physical change in the brain rather than just chemical.
My father's stroke was due to high blood pressure after a craniotomy to remove a subdural hematoma. It was hemorrhagic not ischemic. He has had a couple of MRI's and probably a dozen CT scans and yesterday was the first mention of mini-strokes (or TIA's). He was on blood thinners for a few months after his surgery but not since. He will be seeing a neurologist sometime soon so I will ask about the blood thinners.
My H sent me a text today telling me something business related and then he said I know you are probably avoiding me. I asked why he thought that. He said he sent me a text message about 10 days ago and I never responded. Well, I never got the text message. Now we have been texting most of the afternoon. He wants to come to my D's game tonight (instead of going to C!). He wanted to know if I would feel uncomfortable and if it is okay if he sits with me. I told him I am fine with whatever he wants to do.
Upside,
They may opt to put your father on a baby asprin per day. Let's hope he's okay now and nothing more serious will arise in the days to come.
I'm glad to see that communications are now going better between you and your h. Keep it light and treat him as a friend. No expectations!
Thanks snodderly.
My H showed up to the game. I obviously kept is light and friendly however I did have the pesky little questions running through my mind but I didn't go there. Yesterday when we were texting, I told my H about my father's seizure. He seemed truly concerned. I told him that my father has been talking less since that happened and that I had been thinking of contacting him to see if he would go and talk with him. My H seems to be able to get my father to talk more than most people. Anyway, my father was at my D's game last night and my H asked him to lunch today and included me in the invitation. I'm not sure if I really want to go. As I have said before, I can't go back to the way things were. I have no problem being friendly with him from a distance but I don't want to pretend that this is all okay anymore. Does that make sense? I suppose I will go to lunch and leave it at that. Last night, I could tell my H still wants to be in my life and I am sure he would be fine to go back to the way things were but I can't.
Help!
Up - I hope you are doing well, and that lunch went ok.
Thank you for your support over on my thread. I need all the help I can get!
Hi di-
I am happy to chime in on your thread whenever I can offer anything of value...which may not be that often since I'm on the rollercoaster too.
We met my H for lunch yesterday and he brought his business partner who I have never liked and like him even less after he cheated on his W and is now getting a D. I thought it was strange that my H would invite him. Anyway, lunch was fine, I did my best to be friendly but I am sure that my H could tell I wasn't completely comfortable. When we were leaving my H told me he would call me later and I said okay. Well, of course, I never heard from him. I am sooooo tired of this. I'm trying not to have any expectations but there is a part of me that can't stop from thinking that my H is figuring this out and it going to tell me he wants to be with me. It is hard for me not to push for that. I hate this. I cannot be his friend except from a distance. I wonder what is going through his head when I don't see him and it is even worse when I do. This morning I came so close to picking up the phone to call him and tell him that we need to proceed with the D. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that I have a C appointment this morning.
Why does my H try to be my friend when he knows it isn't okay with me? I don't want his crumbs.
Yeah, most days I only dream of answers to all of my questions. I have moments of clarity. Last night I actually had thoughts running through my head (crazy) that centered around the idea that maybe I was worth being loved for who I am, and why have I been wasting all of this time begging and pleading for another chance from someone who says he doesn't love me, that he's "Lost that and doesn't want to find it." Then I realize that V-day is two days away and I remember all of the things H did for me when he did love me, and I wonder how do you just lose that???? Ughhhh............not productive, so I'm going to try to stop that.
Despite all of my time here I think it's taken me all of this time to "get it." I have recognized my faults and what fueled the MLC but despite my efforts to GAL and make changes, I think my hope that H would eventually come around has stopped me from truly living my life for me and making ME a person H would want to work for. I couldn't get past the idea that what we HAD should be enough to want to come back to. I do think I've lost that battle with him, and now I just have to make the changes for me and my kids, and MY future. If I succeed, and can pick up the pieces of what I have left, I will always wonder if I just hadn't been so slow..............but then that too is unproductive.
Oh....and I don't want anyone's crumbs either.................
It is great that you are able to realize that your thought patterns are unproductive and and change them. I need to try that.
What you HAD should be enough for him to want to come back if he were in a normal, rational state of mind. Don't worry about what you did or didn't do. Your H will either figure it out someday or he won't...all you did was show him that you cared and you were fighting for your M and family. Could that have prolonged this? Maybe, maybe not...as you say that is unproductive to even think about and if we need to move forward and better ourselves, we need to be productive, happy people...right?
Thank you Up.................I have moments of clarity/sanity.....followed by moments of panic.....L office just called to set up first appt................
RE: alt. We will find you just sign up and tell us when you are on I have a secret way of doing it. Maybe?