I am interested in hearing from people whose MLCers did any of these things.
-What sort of circumstances were you in when your MLCer said these things?
-Was it followed by any action?
-How did it make you feel?
My STBXH does seem very very guilty. But he has not expressed regret or remorse, much less an apology. He has demonstrated (but not talked about) hesitation w/divorce. But at this point, things are all but final.
We see a C to deal with conflicts. I have considered opening up a conversation where I express how I felt about certain things that happened before he left. This would not be discussion of OW, I would add, but in how he behaved towards me and how I felt about it.
I feel as if this would help me to heal, even if STBXH does not offer an apology. I have considered that he might just get angry, but I still feel that might be healing for me just to know that he heard it.
I guess this feels unreal to me because it's like he just erased me. I want to say my piece. I am not concerned about reconciliation but in healing for me.
By the way, I wanted to add that I am not referring only to situations where you got back together.
I am actually more curious re. situations where people did not reconcile....
In answer to your question.....
There will be no Hollywood ending....sorry!
If you are expecting your Husband to show up on bended knee, with chocolates, roses and a box from Tiffany's, get over it.
For them to come back, and actually want to come back they are going to have to see that you are not the same person they walked out on.
Changes have to be made. Unfortunately, their changes take much longer, and it will take a long time for their growth to catch up to yours.
In the begining when they come home they will still be testing you and watching you to see if you have truly forgiven them and are a safe person.
There will be MLC moments from time to time and the piecing requires alot of patience.
It takes time for them to feel comfortable in their own skin again.
The apologies will come and the remorse and bits and pieces of their adventure out in lala land. This will happen when they are ready to talk. They can't be bombarded with questions.
BND, No, I am not expecting chocolates, bended knee, or anything like that. I have indicated to him that I am not trying to reconcile.
I just want to say, Here is how I felt during this time and I wanted you to know that.
Forward are you looking for an idea of how many people get the closure you want?
I'm not being mean, I am just curious as to why you want that info.
From as much as I post, I figure you know me and my wife rebuilt our marriage.
So she absolutely had to. And she absolutely had to follow up her words with deeds. And truth be told...I ran a gamut of emotions. From really pi55ed of anger to happiness, from being frightened to being brave. Everything in between.
She called me and said she was sorry for everything. That she would crawl through glass if I would forgive her and give her another chance. I told her that if she was serious that she would be on my porch that Friday when I got home. And that if she did this but went back to OM or failed that the way I had been treating her, going Dark, would feel like a warm summer day compared to the way I would treat her. That it would be easier if she didn't show up.
She did.
J3B, Yes, I knew you got back together.
Did she just call out of the blue? What were things like between you when she call's ed?
I just need to say MY piece. I need STBXH to know how badly hurt and stunned I was by his behavior, and how I had PTSD because of it.
I will add that I would not bring up OW, but STBXH's behavior prior to his taking off.
Another reason I want to do this is because I am curious to see how he responds. It will give me some cues on whether I believe he is capable of understanding others' feelings.
You are only setting yourself up for dissapointment, and I am not sure what exactly you are trying to accomplish here.
I'm not sure that I am, bnd. I don't have expectations. I might even ask him not to respond but just to listen.
I just want to be heard. I feel as if I need that to heal.
She called out of the blue.
What were things like?
Cold. I would talk to her only about our boys and our bills. Anytime she tried to talk about anything else, I would say, so we are done now? And hang up.
Understand that, please. I was LRT without it being a trick...it wasn't even LRT. I was done with her, except as the person I am, I had to give her this chance she begged of me. For my boys, for my piece of mind. Understand I expected her to fail.
So I do not condone this to anyone. It just worked for me and her, we...
especially she, was lucky.
Forward,
I have not reconciled with my H. Nor has he filed for the D he wants or a legal S.
Have I gotten an apology? No. Do I expect him to? At some point, I think he may apologize for the way this happened and while I know he's sorry for the pain he's caused, his words to address that (not at my questioning) are that is isn't the man that can be here for me. He doesn't see us moving forward as a couple.
I will tell you though that at a couple of points while H and I were talking, I did have the opportunity to say how I felt about some things. Did it make a difference? For me personally, yes, it did.
I understand your need to feel heard. When these things were said, I wasn't trying to be mean and vindictive (and from the tone of your posts, I don't hear that in you either) and I wasn't trying to get H to reconcile. It was good for me to say some of what I needed to say. It was one of those "no expectation" moments and I am good with how it went.
HUGS
I can honestly tell you that until they are ready to hear the truth and are able to receive it, it will go on deaf ears.
Honey, I know you are hurting, and I know that you want to hear that he is sorry for hurting you an turning your world upside down. That the amount of pain he has caused has ripped you apart.
I know, I journaled faithfully for years, and had planned on givng them to him after the Divorce was final. I wanted so much for my Husband to know what he had done to me and the kids.
But some people are not capable of hearing the truth, or apologizing for the pain they have caused. They have remorse, but their pride gets in the way.
(((((hugs)))))
BND,
I am worried that forward is setting herself up too.
But these are her shoes...if she has nothing to lose; then she has nothing to lose.
Forward, more often than not, we do not get answers to the questions we have. Getting to a point where the questions no longer matter... that's a good thing.
His answers no matter what they are, shouldn't define you.
You define yourself, by your own questions only you can answer.
I am curious to see how he responds. It will give me some cues on whether I believe he is capable of understanding others' feelings.
Why would that matter to you if you guys aren't reconciling?
B, you could sit him down and tell him how badly he treated you and he might even feel guilty about it and if he's mature enough he might express regret ... but at the end of the day you are just giving him more information about you than he knows what to do with.
My experience has been that my xH knows he behaved appaulingly - he's blocked out the things that hurt me the most (they don't remember the bad stuff so his recollection of things is going to be different to yours and that will breed conflict)- but what my X does remember brings him deep shame.
One of the ways we "let go" is to understand that they'll come to reflect on how they've behaved in their own time in their own journey and that's the most powerful place for it to happen - it's not necessarily up to us to spell it out for them - like it's not up to us to mother them in any other ways.
Do it if you think it will make you feel better - but beware that in doing so you give him another bit of information about you that he may not have the right to own.
You are doing great. I do know how hard this part of the trip is and you are really keeping up.
Take care, V
When my H and I first spoke in person 3 months post-bomb, I asked him if he had anything to say first. He said only "I'm sorry it's come to this." I did / do not consider that an apology, but it was all he could offer then.
A few weeks later, after I mentioned that I didn't like living alone (pre-DBing), he said that he had had a lot of time to think, and that he imagined I must be happy to be away from all of his angry rants, at least. I said that yes, they were quite abusive. He said "I know, and I'm sorry about that." Which was fine, but when the subject came up again, he dismissed it with "I've already apologized for that." So while I heard and accept his apology, he really didn't understand the damage those rants did to my well-being and self-esteem.
That said, after 40 years together, I see his guilt and remorse every time we meet. I don't know that I really need any further verbal apologies, as words come easy to a MLCer and can't be trusted. How he treats me going forward, whether together or not, is far more important, and I choose to focus on that instead.
Just to let you know I have received a couple of apologies.
At times I've witnessed moments of clarity.
I once remember getting a phone call. There was a "hello" I could hardly hear, then a long pause. I asked if she was ok and in a tiny broken voice heard "I'm so sorry. I can't believe I have treated you so awful." "I don't know why,I am so confused."
A week or so later she was mlc full tilt once again.
I have been divorced for about seven months now. A few months ago I received over the course of a couple of conversations somewhat of an indirect apology. Then back to crazy once again.
Trapt, Your situation has been one of the ones where you say Hmm. Maybe there is something to the MLC syndrome. Painful as it is when it is too little too late, at least it is SOMETHING.
I kind of feel like I've been obliterated, erased. I feel as if this is a way to say "I am a person, too, and I am NOT going to have my feelings and experience denied. I have feelings, too."
Walking, I am interested in seeing how he responds because I have found myself wondering if he is capable of seeing me as a person. The answer to that gives me some ideas on the types of boundaries that I need to have, going forward.
Yes mine has been an interesting one for sure. We were actually even together so to speak about a month after the D was filed.
It's nearly impossible for me to ever tell what is real or where her head is at on any given day.
I feel your boundaries should be for you. Plain and simple. You really shouldn't base them on a guess at what he is capable of. Make them for you and only you. : )
I have gotten tons of crying, apologies, please take me back, etc. etc. but NO real improvement. Back to crazy shortly thereafter. So, would it do any good to take him back? Nope.
SoCo, Your situation is one of the most unusual ones I have seen on these boards. It seems much more common for them to slink away.
I am interested in seeing how he responds because I have found myself wondering if he is capable of seeing me as a person. The answer to that gives me some ideas on the types of boundaries that I need to have, going forward
.
I get that. It will be important for you with your little one to figure out how to co-parent and realistic boundaries are going to be critical to that.
I kind of feel like I've been obliterated, erased. I feel as if this is a way to say "I am a person, too, and I am NOT going to have my feelings and experience denied. I have feelings, too."
I understand that too - only you and and I also know that it's none of anyone elses business how we feel - and as long as
you know that your experiences and feelings have happened, have near wiped you out(!) have taught you stuff, have led to making you the you that you are now ... they can never be denied.
In terms of being erased/obliterated? Get out of town! You are one of the least obliterated people I've ever typed to. Don't give him that power over you.
I think you voicing this, especially in a counseling session will be healing, empowering and validating to you.
You ARE a person, not an object. And yes you deserve to be heard. You matter and your legitimate feelings matter too.
Weighing in on the other side of the eX experience ... I've heard no apologies, no remorse, no ... anything. I, too, thought that letting her know my side of things would make me feel better. It didn't. I got absolutely no response. Not even a blink. We're divorced now. And still nothing. Saying your piece, though it may get it off your chest, is no guarantee you'll be heard or responded to.
MW, What were the circumstances between you when this happened? How much time had gone by when you said these things?
I am at the point where it is not about his response--it is about saying what I need to say. In fact, I don't even want a response from him. I am not sure how to approach but I have some time to mull that over.
Walking, thanks for your comment. I wish I did not feel obliterated, but I did.
Forward,
Well, I guess I am unusual. I did get an apology.
I did write about it on a thread but it has been awhile. (
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...814#Post1842814) Essentially H accidently sent me an email, calling me a derogatory name, which he meant to send to his sister. He tried to recall it with no luck. When I first received the email, I was stunned and trying not to react...after all, he cheated, left us, started an affair with a friend (ex) of mine, filed for divorce...and is calling me names?!?!? I didn't respond to the email. About 20 minutes later, I received a long email from him not only apologizing for the email but for all of the hurt that he has caused. He also acknowledged that he has been at war with me in his mind and that, coupled with the guilt he felt, accounted for his nastiness towards me.
The challenge was how to respond. It certainly was an opportunity to let him know how I felt, get a couple of things off my chest. You see, I have NEVER told him what I thought. When I first got the bomb, I immediately implemented DB principles - although not because I read the book, but because it was my reaction to the shock. So I waited the entire day before responding to his email.
I thanked him for his apology, accepted it, acknowledged that it was heartfelt and let it go.
What good would it do to let him know what he did to me...the hurt, the anger, the betrayal? I may have 60 seconds of some type of relief, or maybe even some small peace...but it changes nothing. He still left, he is still dating a former friend of mine, and I am still divorced.
I think that they all know what they have done. They don't need us to tell them. They may try and bury it, hide it, pretend that they haven't done this, or even justify it, but they know deep down what they have done. Us verbalizing it does nothing. And really, if your spouse is in a nasty state, I don't think the small sense of satisfaction you may get from talking to him will outweigh him realizing that he got to you. I don't know your situation and what you are dealing with, but my ex did not have much nastiness for the first two years that he left. This past summer however, he was just looking for fights with me..I think it was to justify him leaving. Me talking to him about all of his "wrongs" would have been just the thing that he was looking for to pick a fight.
So that is my situation. Would I love to lay it all out for him? Yes. Will I. No. Moving on for me means recognizing that I can't change what has happened and letting go of the past.
I got a very heartfelt totured "I am so very very sorry" right at the end of the bomb that was delivered very clinically.
I had my first R talk last weekend (6 months later). I started by apologising for my major faults during our relationship which he accepted and I discussed how I had made changes in these areas for me which he had already seen. He then said his behavior had not been perfect either, I said that the phrase well below par in the last two years came to mind actually and he agreed.
I have gotton many different things you are talking about from XH. I did it all wrong as far as DBing goes for 2 years and still slide back. My XH and I were very close and shared everything, so not telling him what was going on with me and how much he was hurting me and the kids was next to impossible for me (and not knowing I was causing more damage didn't help).
He was here a few weeks ago, we spent what would have been our 18th wedding anniversary together. We rehased everything, but in a much better way. In the end he said "you have said everything you can possibly say, I hear you, I just need time to process all this, I need to figure this out on my own, you telling me all this isn't helping". I thought that was pretty insightful and it made me hopeful. We slept together the next night, I layed in bed with him for 2 hours before that touching his back, which he loves!! The next day we went to D10's parent-teacher conference, our son's b-day party with my family, and that whole day I saw my real H again. He was there, he was back, I was even more hopeful. Then, he leaves to go back where he lives 700 miles away and to the arms of OW!! And, off to crazy land he went again...but then...he called and said he was going to go to C on his own. And, although I never asked he told me several times where he was and what he was doing and it didn't involve OW..but then...this past week he asks to talk to me and tells me he is going on a "date" with OW...so back to crazyland!! Now, no real contact for days, just an e-mail regarding business stuff and a little about how it had been 10 yrs since we had moved from Chicago to Atlanta. I have gotton many apologies, but all they were was BS!! Nothing really heartfelt and meaningful.
I guess I can say that I am glad I said the things I did, I just wish I hadn't done them when I did and saved them for when things were over and done with...which I am not sure we are there yet or will ever be...XH told me when we were getting the D..."well if the D doesn't work out we can just get back together" More crazytown cause as long as OW is in the picture there is no getting back together. I felt like if I didn't say it he would never know, so I said everything I could think of hoping it would spark some thoughts in him that he was making a mistake, it only hurt things. I guess what I am trying to say is if you think it is over no matter what, that there is nothing at all he could do or say to make you take him back, the door is closed forever...then say your peace and who cares how he reacts. You just have to go into it telling yourself that no matter what he says or does in reactions to what you tell him, it makes no difference to you and you can handle it. Just IMO!!
Me-39
XH-42
T-21 M- over 17
D16, S14, D10
Bomb-7/07
moved out-9/07
moved back-12/07
moved out for good-7/08
D final-5/09
bomb he was with her all along-9/09
By the time my XW expressed that perhaps she regretted her decision, it was too late. Mind you, she didn't tell me directly but let it get to me in a couple of different, not so subtle ways. By then, I saw her as she truly was, and knew in my heart of hearts, that she hadn't really changed and would just do it again.
And not that I need it, but I have the full support of my sons.
She used your boys to let your hear that.
Actually no. Where the boys are concerned, we put up a pretty united front.
I mean, she can't help it that she's got a few annoying little habits .....
Interesting range of responses. I think it will take a while before STBXH is not so angry at me. As it is now, I haven't seen anything from him. Guilt, maybe. But not remorse or regret.
I lean against saying anything at this point, based on responses here. I think dark is good for me now, healing. I have been doing more things on my own and gradually meeting new people and making new friends.
Today I realized that I spent most of the day not thinking about STBXH.
hmmm. at the end of mediation, he said "I'll always love you." didn't believe it then, don't believe it now. he said it so that he could feel better about himself, period. it's been years and years since I felt anything like love from him. Eighteen months later, the divorce is entirely my fault in his eyes, altho he left me for an old girlfriend.
My ex said the same thing at mediation. Actions speak louder than words, it is all a farce. I agree to relieve guilt. People who love you (or are capable of it) don't have sex with bimbos, lie, cheat and steal.
Oh yeah they say some messed up stuff. No way we can be in their heads. Mind swears he has loved me this entire time, and yeah, he had a girlfriend, but she meant nothing and he is NOT ready to move on. Therefore I can't move on either, cuz he's not ready.....
Crazy how they can just sweep all of this stuff under the rug as if it's nothing, but the earth stops turning if WE start to get a life....
I never got any statement even close to regret
my xh refuses to see/ hear any truth
to this day he will say he did everything he could to make the M work
he went to therapy for 4 years with me
I never loved him'
this was mutual
all lies
peace
My H says he did the right thing by leaving..
told the kids that you try EVERY day when your married, (yet he ran)
told them they don't understand relationships cause they're too young. (actually they understand more than the man child)
my H also did everything he could..(but said he wouldn't do counseling cause he wasn't going ANYWHERE with me..
And my H says he won't ever regret..and he won't b lonely..he has OW afterall...
As long as they're happy all is well in the world..
Interesting range of responses here. I have sort of affirmed that I will not do anything to try to state my feelings to STBXH.