Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: sleeper I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 02:31 AM

To dream ... the impossible dream
To fight the ... unbeatable foe
To bear ... with unbearable sorrow
To run ... where the brave dare not go
To right ... the unrightable wrong
To love ... pure and chaste from afar
To try ... when your arms are too weary
To reach ... the unreachable star

This is my quest, to follow that star
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far
To fight for the right, without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell, for a Heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true, to this glorious quest
That my heart will lie will lie peaceful and calm,
when I'm laid to my rest ...
And the world will be better for this:
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage,
To reach ... the unreachable star ...
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 02:55 AM
OK so I'm not "chaste" but rest fits.

DD had a school function tonight so X and I had some contact (OMH is out of town). I picked up both kids and took them to meet X at her business.

To make a long story short there were many unattached mothers of school age children at the event. X went into overdrive with her, "why don't you ask that one out, she's cute, she has only one child," comments ad nauseum. I eventually told her to get a new hobby.

It was all I could do to not say, because I'm in love with you, you are my soulmate, the mother of my children. I will never marry again, true love only comes along once in a lifetime and you were mine, etc. We were getting along wonderfully, joking, talking and she invited me to dinner with her and the kids (I declined).

I don't understand why all of the sudden she is determined to see me seriously involved with someone else, or is she? She asked at one point if I am in love with Ladyfriend to which I honestly replied, "no".

I was later tempted to send her a message telling her how I feel and the reason I don't want to date anyone she attempts to fix me up with.

I havent.
Posted By: graceallday Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 04:45 AM
Sleeper -- Dont do it...SHE KNOWS......and she has u eating out of the palm of her hand......

I am not saying be rude or even to change anything else.....as I guess I would have backed off a bit ....but who is to say....dont go chasing her down though...it has to be obvious u love her....

now about lady friend....so you know you dont love her??? that has me curious...just from a mans perspective....so for a man you will stay with someone that you dont love??? not sure if you are still together or at what point you knew she wasnt it???? Do you know why you dont love her?? or is it all about chemistry or is there something about her core person that just donest match up.....just curious...
Posted By: graceallday Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 04:47 AM
or is it just the obvious u love your wife so she isnt it....or do u think u could love someone else if they were a match and still love your wife?
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 11:38 AM
I was/am attracted to Ladyfriend and I do love her but I am not in love with her. We have a great time when we are together but there are times when I want to be alone. I don't ever remember it being like that with X. There was something deeper between X amd me, and I don't think she and OMH have what we had. X and I clicked from the beginning, the first date. It was deep it was real it was right. Now that the anger stage has passed it is still there. We're still connected. We understand one another.

I wnat my family back and I know she misses our family being together. She mentioned this to the C back when we were seeing him jointly. While separated she mentioned we didn't have to stop "being a family" and last night she invited me to dinner with her and the kids. I guess that's why I declined as badly as I wanted to go. I didn't want to provided a substitution for what should actually be.

Right now I can't see myself loving anyone the way I loved X. Hate to sound sappy but it was a once in a lifetime (if you're that lucky) thing. I'll never marry anyone unless it is her.

So from a woman's perspective, why is she suddenly so interested in me dating?
Posted By: fisherman Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 12:22 PM
Originally Posted By: sleeper
To make a long story short there were many unattached mothers of school age children at the event. X went into overdrive with her, "why don't you ask that one out, she's cute, she has only one child," comments ad nauseum. I eventually told her to get a new hobby.


I like your response!

Quote:
she invited me to dinner with her and the kids (I declined).


I like this one even more.

Quote:
I don't understand why all of the sudden she is determined to see me seriously involved with someone else, or is she?


We can only guess, so it won't do any good to dwell on this. My guess would be to relieve her of guilt.

Quote:
I was later tempted to send her a message telling her how I feel and the reason I don't want to date anyone she attempts to fix me up with.

I havent.


Good man for resisting that temptation....Don't do it. Just as Grace said, she knows.

I feel distance would put you in a much healthier position and that it would also allow her to finally "feel" the reality of her choices. Even though it upsets her and all you hear is how "passive aggressive" you are, it is what is needed for both of you.

Posted By: Grace_O Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 03:14 PM
Quote:
I don't understand why all of the sudden she is determined to see me seriously involved with someone else, or is she?


You know better than we do, I think your second guessing what you understand. I could give you my hunches as a female, but that wouldn't necessisarily be your xw's motives.

Ed Aames huh?

Quote:
She asked at one point if I am in love with Ladyfriend to which I honestly replied, "no".


I saw your last post where you said you loved her but weren't in love with her. All I can say here is IMO you shouldn't be dating. LF is probably looking for an R and you are not available. I get being loney, but if you're not available and ready you aren't playing fair. Stop it.

Quote:
I was later tempted to send her a message telling her how I feel and the reason I don't want to date anyone she attempts to fix me up with.


I wouldn't tell her. It might help you though to write it down in a letter and release it all at the end. Don't know. Have you ever done a letter of release?

HUGS
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 05:05 PM
Quote:
You know this better than we do, I think your second guessing what you understand.


It's a very new behavior for her, of course she is very newly married. All through the separation she DIDN'T want me to date. Then she became very upset when I did begin to date 7 months after our divorce.

I think there is an element of guilt involved. If I'm all hooked up and happy with someone else she doesn't have to feel badly about what she did. Two things C said (which along with $2.89 will get you a cup of coffee):

1. It's going to be ok. X has a conscience.
2. In answer to my question of should I date; "No, not if you want your M back."

At the risk of over analysis (which it is) I mentioned to C at times it seemed as though X was punishing me and at times it seemed as thoughs she was testing me. He agreed.

So tell me Grace, What are your hunches?

After all it is what is is and will be what it will be.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/25/09 07:29 PM
Quote:
...I think you're second guessing what you understand.


Game over.

She got what she wanted (a divorce from me and marriage to OM).

Me happily married to someone would make things complete, relieve any guilt she might feel and remove me as a source of jealousy/threat to her R with OMH.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/26/09 12:03 AM
Sleeper,
Hmm. I read that many affairs begin with one person "helping" the other with their love life. As friends.

So guilt...maybe. Maybe kinda secretly wishing she was the one. Maybe.

OMH is not gonna be too happy if he finds out she has been out with you.

I think it's good that you declined. I think it's good that you are telling her to get a new hobby.

I think it's curious that she is wanting to set you up.
Posted By: Grace_O Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/27/09 05:55 PM
sleeper,

Speaking only for myself, there are two reasons I would behave in such a way (and that likelyhood is pretty small). 1: I would be feeling you out as to where you are with regards to me or 2: guilt.

Like I said this is only me and the likelyhood would be very small b/c I am not a game player. I would rather risk being hurt than to not play my cards on the table. A very valuable lesson I have learned.

Having put that out there, what does that tell you about ex? nothing. Just as your take on how a man thinks applies only to you.

HUGS
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/27/09 09:18 PM
GraceO, I agree.

Here's the thing, too. Say you are unavailable but not really happy. If you are setting up attractive friends of the opposite sex, it still kind of gives you a kind of special bond and connection. Then maybe that friend will confide in you if things are not really going well--again, special bond.

And you can get bits of information about how things are progressing from both sides.
Posted By: Grace_O Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/27/09 10:38 PM
Fair, as long as opposite sex friends have a clear understanding of the relationship.

I have a couple of male friends that I have told point blank, I am not available and not interested in anything of a romantic nature. I have also had a couple of men tell me that since that was the case they didn't choose to do things (btw, with men I tend to do things within a group, less chance of any misunderstandings).

Granted, I may be a bit of a freak, but honestly, my biggest concern here is misleading someone else. It would be too easy to do just b/c their interest would boost my ego.

Just sayin'.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/27/09 10:48 PM
What I am saying is that that is what Sleeper's X seems to be doing: getting involved in his love life (or trying to) so that she can continue to have a special role.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/28/09 03:08 AM
Or there are some mlcers who subconsciously know what they are going through. X told C when this started, "I'll probably marry Sleeper again one day." She's always been interested in if/who I might be dating.

I'm enjoying some detatchment lately and the observations can be very interesting.

OMH's job situation has changed (cutbacks) so he is out of town a lot more than he used to be as he is required to take on the workload which results in X being alone more often. That helps explain all the contact this past week and her inviting me out to eat with her and the kids twice. I turned down one, accepted one (I'm getting into this doing as I want thing).

The last time I delivered kids to X at kidswap she wasn't home but OMH was there to recieve them. He didn't look happy to see me arrive with the children and X not there.

As for me I'm stressed (no elaboration needed). The good thing is I recognize it. The even better thing is I'm about to do some things about it. I'm getting back on my meds, I have therapy this week, I'm going back to he gym and beginning to say "NO". No matter what happens me and my kids are going to be OK.

But for now Sancho, "There are giants in this land........"
Posted By: fisherman Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/28/09 12:05 PM
Originally Posted By: sleeper
But for now Sancho, "There are giants in this land........"


That's no joke.... this isn't for the faint of heart.

I'm happy to hear that you recognize this and you are taking care of it.

As far as the whole "no" thing goes. It's a must do at times. Grab your shield and be prepared for the potential spewing that my occur from using that one little word...... No.

Forward we go.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 03:36 AM
Quote:
...Sleeper's X seems to be doing: getting involved...so that she can have a special role.


Saw X and OMH at kids sports event tonight which was also kidswap. She brought up Halloween Night. We would have families with kids over for a party/trick or treating when we were married and this tradition cointinued after we separated. This will be the first Halloween after our D and her subsequent M to OM.

X wants us; her, me, OMH, Ladyfriend and our kids (didn't mention ladyfriend's kids) to dress in matching costumes of the same theme. She even asked my opinion on the food to be served (had ___ last year, do you think ___ would be better to serve this year?).

If you really want to get twisted read this......

The theme would combine the Adams Family with the Munsters. X would be Morticia, OMH chose Lurch, and I said I would only come as Gomez (THE HUSBAND). They were both basically OK with that although X did try to steer me toward the Grandfather figure in the Munsters cast. Our daughter would be Tuesday and our son either Pugsly or Wolfie. There was no suggestion for costumes for Ladyfriend or Ladyfriend's kids.

I find it interesting I get a place in the character scheme, albiet grandpa. Her real grandpa's death triggered her mlc. I recieved grandfatherly gifts for the Christmas that immediately followed (ties and a shoe shine kit).

Feeling a little uncomfortable and weirded out I diverted the discussion and mentioned I and DS might come as other matching characters we had discussed on our own.

Maybe this ____ is all normal and I'm the one who is ____ed in the head.

I should just show up as Don Quixote.

"Wit is wasted on the witless", Sleeper, Halloween, 2007. There will be at least two in attendence who will "get it" if I do indeed dress as Don Quixote.

I may do it for the three of us.

Hell, I might even sing. (and I can)
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 05:37 AM
Why do you keep doing this to yourself, and to her?

STOP THE CYCLE.

Sleeper, I care about you and I think you and I are kindred spirits. As such, you are continuing the cycle in order to not 'hurt anyone'. Well, pain is a motivator. If you actually love your XW and your children you would stop this.

When? Damn it man, you are killing me because I follow you trying to learn and I end up having to teach.

Are you in the alternate Universe? Kalni sunshine?
Posted By: fisherman Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 12:25 PM
I agree. I definitely wouldn't be partying it up with her and her husband on Halloween.

Yeah that whole theme thing is strange. Why play into it?

That word "NO" keeps coming to mind.

Posted By: Mach1 Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 12:35 PM
Sleeper....



STOP the madness man.....

You are not healing with any of this crap....
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 03:29 PM
Don't do it. Ask her to stop this nonsense. Be firm but polite. And tell her to butt out of your personal life while you're at it.

I hate to see you hurting yourself.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 04:05 PM
Quote:
I hate to see you hurting yourself.


It no longer hurts. What at one time was continuous pain has faded to a very occasional twinge.

I really do now see myself as a Quixotic figure. I didn't realize how appropriate the metaphor was when I chose it for this thread title.

Funny how insightful our own sub-conscious minds are.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/29/09 05:23 PM
Yeah, well that's not a story that ended happily, as I recall.

MATCHING COSTUMES???? ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME????

This puts the "diss" in "dysfunctional".
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 02:34 AM
I now have followed along with poor Sleeper enough to recognize his deadpan humor (I think) so I think the absurdity of it all is quite clear to him.

But just in case: Not only should you not do the costumes, you shouldn't party with her at ALL.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 03:44 AM
Quote:
..so I think the absurdity of it all is quite clear to him.


Thank you.

I have Phd in absurdity.

Quote:
Not only should you not do the costumes, you shouldn't party with her at ALL.


I dunno.

I found myself at dinner with X, OMH and both DS and DD tonight quite by accident. I was taking some sports equipment to X as she had texted me she had the kids and was on the way to practice. They weren't where I expected to meet them but a few doors down at a resturant in a strip mall. I was totally unaware OMH was with them. She asked if I wanted to order as their food had yet to be served. I declined but did sit down at the table with them. I sat at their table while they ate dinner and had cordial conversation with them.

I SWEAR I DON'T MAKE UP THIS SH*T!

C mentioned it was unfortunate I haven't kept a diary as I could write a book of my experiences through it all. I informed him I had two three-ring binders I threw away when I moved this past summer (attempting to let some of this "go"). He dropped his face into his hands.

I may go to the Halloween party. I'm becoming an observer. I wanted to be an Anthropoligist when I graduated from high School. This must be similar to living within a subject culture.

X told me she has signed the kids up for private sports lessons and asked if I would take them tomorrow as she will be working. She went on to tell me the lessons are at the facility where the man who raped our D would practice the same sport. The last time either of us were there was when we confronted him (one of two confrontations for me) seven years ago. I jokingly asked if I could carry a gun as I did when I went there last time. The only reason I didn't use it was because I still had enought doubt/denial in my mind that I didn't feel justified. By the time I knew what he had done she made me promise I wouldn't kill him on the way to the second confrontation. I can only hope his experiences in prison have made him wish I would have.

Quote:
...poor Sleeper...


You consideration is kind but misplaced.

Through these rich experiences I have become wealthy beyond measure (and if the IRS could find a way to measure it they would sure as h*ll tax it).

Come Sancho! Dulcinea awaits!

(musical interlude)
Posted By: Grace_O Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 01:05 PM
Quote:
She went on to tell me the lessons are at the facility where the man who raped our D would practice the same sport.


Does he still practice there? How does your D feel about this?

I gotta tell you if he's going to be around there, I'd have serious reservations about D going.
Posted By: *KS*Chick* Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 01:29 PM
Just an outsider looking in ........ I would agree with Grace and I would have a very hard time going to a Halloween party with my ex and his new wife and the kids.......dinner would be out also.

I uhhhh should just walk away I suppose.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 01:33 PM
Quote:
How does your D feel about this?


No, he's in prison. I can't remember exactly but I believe he was given 25 years and by now may be eligible for parole in about 10 years. If a plea bargin hadn't have been struck and he had been convicted on what he actually did he could have received the death penalty.

DD has no knowledge of any of this as she was ~3yrs and DS 1yr when what I described transpired. Neither she nor DS have ever been there. The kids will love the place. Lots of children recieving coaching in their sport and elementary age cheerleading clinics.

That's why he would go there.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 01:40 PM
Quote:
...dinner would be out also.


This thought shot through my mind in relation to OMH:

"Thou preparest a table before mine enemies..."

I gotta find my cup.
Posted By: Grace_O Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 02:19 PM
Whew! I was gettin' worried about you.

It may be me, but the dinner and party thing would be out. I know me and for me that would be a bad idea. I'm not sure it's a good idea for anybody.
Posted By: fisherman Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 02:55 PM
This is just an opinion so take it for what it's worth.

Dinners and parties with your ex and her husband?

Just the other day you were questioning the whole cake eating thing. Seems to me that stuff like this is a massiving serving of the gourmet kind.

How is this beneficial to you? Don't get me wrong here, if it is then forgive me, but I just can't seem to figure out how this could be. How does constantly playing a role in all of this ever going to help you truely put your focus where it needs to be. On YOU. How much motivation does your ex have as far as taking a look at herself as long as she has the both of you around?

Not to mention, your children are taking this all in. They are learning relationship skills right now that they will put to use for the rest of their lives. The possiblity of them being confused by all of this seems sort of high to me.

Who knows?? I may be way off base here, but if no one changes here, how in the world will this situation change??



Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 08:48 PM
Quote:

"I'll probably marry Sleeper again one day."


I think you hold on to this from the moment you wake up, until you fall asleep.

I think it defines everything you do.

And until that day happens, all this self inflicted pain is just delicious to you.

Sometimes it is just easier to wear the jester costume and laugh at everything.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 10:54 PM
Sleeper, I can understand that you want to watch for the curiosity, except that I do not entirely believe you.

Do something else on Halloween.

I agree that you are going to confuse your children. They are probably hoping you will get back together. And while you are, too, you really have to fully END the unhealthy relationship before you could consider forging a new one.

Time for new traditions that exclude her.

I have to admit that I would enjoy making OM jealous if I were you. But that, too, is not a good focus.
Posted By: Bworl Re: I am Don Quixote - 09/30/09 10:58 PM
Sleeper,

I'll say much less delicately what I think Jack might have been getting at.

Your heart wants to believe your wife will have a change at some point that wakes her up and returns her to you. Her asking for a divorce didn't change that. Her successfully getting her divorce didn't change that. Her taking up residence with another man didn't change that. Her marrying that man didn't change that.

When do you become the OM in this picture?


Your wife chose to move on. I understand how you feel about her and how much you wish the outcome would be different. But she's not just a woman who divorced you anymore. She's a woman who divorced you and married another man.


There is something significant in there if you look hard enough.


This cross pollination that keeps occuring between the two of you is bad. Bad for you. Bad for her. Bad for her new marriage. At one point you came here to save a marriage. Now you're hoping to see one end?


Peaceful co-parenting is a noble and worthwhile goal that EVERY divorced couple with children should aspire to. Lives that remain intermingled, even after a remarriage are wrong on lots of different levels.


You keep playing these little games, hoping for a crack in her armor, a sign that she's second guessing her decison, or a glimmer of reason to believe that she's wanting you back. Maybe she does at times. It wouldn't surprise me since you have such a history together.


But the situation is different now. And you see to refuse to accept that. At this point I think it is a harmful kind of denial.


Halloween together with themed costumes? You have to be kidding.


If I were OM, I'd have a nice little talk with you about stepping back and allowing my new marriage to have a fighting chance to succeed.


Not trying to take his side or rush to his defense. Really just wanting you to disconnect with this situation that is doing NOTHING positive for you.


Blessings,

Bill
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/01/09 02:48 AM
Quote:
Her marrying that man didn't change that.


I have never given up easily. You should have seen me learning to roller skate. I was physically ill by the end of the day.

Quote:
When do you become the OM in this picture?


I have been all along. Although overtly very friendly I did catch him giving me a hard look when at first I wasn't looking in his direction Monday night. Karma is such a harsh mistress. And to think Heinlein thought the Moon was.

Quote:
There is something significant in there if you look hard enough.


Yes, I know. My mind has recognized and my emotions have felt its significance.

Quote:
Now you're hoping to see one end?


Yes, I am.

Quote:
Halloween together with themed costumes?


Not kidding. She suggested it and repeated her suggestion the following night. I won't participate in costumes. I'm now trying to decide how to handle the issue of the children. While on the subject of missing/dysfunctional boundaries....I mentioned wanting a house for "the kids and myself" Monday and she immediately refered to one down the street from her house that may be coming up for sale. I would never consider such but have learned to let those comments pass without comment. Similar housing location comments began at separation and have continued throughout this mess.

Quote:
If I were OM I'd have a nice little talk with you about stepping back...


Funny, I had that very talk with him two weeks post bomb.

Although it is my goal and desire, I don't always do the right thing first when presented with challenging situations (sometimes I do get it right the first time).

At my last session the C basically said the was a brief window of opportunity for us to reconcile early on in our separation and alluded to his opinion this has been a dead horse for a couple of years now. He encouraged me to move on with my life. That didn't sit well with my gut as giving up is not in my nature. I confirmed today I have another session scheduled for next week.

I appreciate everyone's concern and comments. Deep down I know theses things and it doesn't hurt to have them brought up to the surface. I should distance myself from X and have been doing so but by very small babysteps. It's not as if it's some grand plan I have but it's happening naturally. When something seems right I do it. If it then feels right I know it was the right thing to do.

There has been progress in the state of our relations. X recently paid off some debt of which she had previously demanded I pay half. She jokingly commented that I "owe" her and smiled. You could have knocked me over with a feather.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/01/09 03:03 AM
Quote:
Sometimes it is just easier to wear the jester costume and laugh at everything.


Mi Dama, I am Don Quixote, a Knight of Castilla, no jester indeed.

Or are you suggesting I go to X's Hallowen Party dressed as a Jester?

In truth, I shall not go.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/01/09 03:13 PM
Glad you ain't going.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/01/09 05:54 PM
What I am suggesting is that your surreal reality is because you choose it, what you laugh at...I cringe at.

We are made differently.

I see you placating your x-wife's expected life after divorcing Sleeper, it is her tune, and you brought the band and the hor d'oeuvres.

It is not my life, it is yours, I just do not see how this is good for you.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/01/09 11:16 PM
Sleeper, Glad you are not going. It will be better for you to find some other things to do.

Your X has not had the chance to feel what it is like to be divorced. It is grossly unfair to be kept in the wings.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 11:21 AM
Quote:
...you brought the band and the hor d'oeuvres.


Close. I'm in the band.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 05:05 PM
Originally Posted By: forward
Your X has not had the chance to feel what it is like to be divorced. It is grossly unfair to be kept in the wings.


Agreed. She is being deprived of these feelings by Sleeper.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 05:40 PM
Hope it pays well, seems like a shi tty gig to me.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 06:53 PM
Quote:
...seems like a shi tty gig to me.


It is. But I refuse to accept the status quo. My children deserve better than this. Years ago I failed them and my wife.

Will I succeed? Who knows?

It's not all roses on her end. I served up a great deal of cake over the past couple of years but I have put her on a diet.

I know I may be the world's biggest fool.
Posted By: *KS*Chick* Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 07:19 PM
Sleeper - if you owe your kids, then do things for them and with them. Make THEM your focus, not your ex-wife and her new husband......just seems really wrong and unhealthy.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 07:43 PM
Quote:
...just seems wrong and unhealthy.


This is the healthiest I've been in a long time.

I know the sitch with X isn't what it should be however I and therefore the sitch am moving in the right direction.

I'm not focused on her like I once was.

I don't think of OMH at all.

His place or lack thereof in my mind as a non-persona is what is probably causing some of you to disagree with my outlook.
Posted By: Fallgirl Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/02/09 08:52 PM
Wow! Just catchin` up with you from your previous thread...

How ARE your kids?

You sure do seem to have a need for the dramatic. Yup, this DB world is a crazy place but priority Numero 1 HAS to be the kids.

Sleeper, you CAN have a great relationship with a woman. Right now, your W just seems to have a need to bleed you dry-and you seem to have a need to let her.

Meanwhile, where are the kids? Caught in a whole reality show?

This place can drive one crazy...I know...but it CAN get better than this.

Mind your LF too. She deserves someone who can be more committed.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 03:40 AM
Facts gleaned from your posts on this thread:

In your posts on this thread (not counting the initial post which consisted only of lyrics), there are --

15 posts total.

9 of those posts reference OM directly (I didn't even include the indirect references, as to your wife's remarriage, etc). One post was devoted entirely to the OM.

Hmmmmmmm.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 04:36 AM
Quote:
...9 of those posts reference OM directly...


Wow that hit me, "Out of Left Field", Percy Sledge

"When least expected..."

So I'm overtly acknowledging what I'm subconsciously denying or unaware of?

I never said he didn't exist.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 06:30 AM
Originally Posted By: sleeper
I never said he didn't exist.


You implied it.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 06:52 PM
Ok guys, help me see the lesson I need to learn here.

When this guy basically moved into my house and started boinking who was then my wife at bomb I decided he wasn't really the problem. My X, me and our R was the problem. For a while I listed OM (now H) as "irrelevant" on my profile.

It's not like I don't know he exists. X approached me over a year ago, before they were engaged and encouraged me to be more friendly with OM saying she wanted him and me to be more friendly to one another (it's a fine madness). I told her, "I don't think OM and I will ever be best buds."

It goes both ways. This summer at DS's bday party he didn't say a word to me as if I wasn't there so I accomodated him. We do speak to each other when necessary. I've called his cell when I couldn't reach X on her phone concerning the kids.

Have I failed OP 101?
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 08:08 PM
Sleeper, I think you need to be around OM as little as possible, that's for sure.

I think the point here is that you are still fixated on them instead of on yourself and your own life.

Actually, your post made me realize that although I would like to avoid OW (really OG) as much as possible and while I have no respect for her, she exists and my D has a relationship with her and my STBX H has said he wants to marry her.

If he is dumb enough to do that, I am stuck dealing with her. I don't really think he wants to as it seemed like a dramatic card pulled out of the hat--H is a drama king, I now realize--but who knows. Maybe they'll have the big white tacky suburban lovefest OG has always dreamed of.

At this point, I'm more interested in thinking about where I might want to move to.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 08:08 PM
Also, OW will never be welcome in my home.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/03/09 08:28 PM
I hope your H doesn't marry his "OG" if for nothing else but the sake of your D. The constant theme of this 2.75 year nightmare I've been in has been for my worst fears to come true. Although both of them say they don't want a child together that is exactly what I expect to happen.

"Hope for the best but expect the worst."

Quote:
Also, OW will never be welcome in my home.


That is your right and choice. OMH has always waited in the car when X has had occasion to come by my place with him. If there was ever a reason for him to come inside and I refused I would be proving once again to X that I am the most "passive agressive" person in the history of the human race and further cementing my status of inferiority to OMH.

And that would be quite alright with me.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 03:29 AM
Today was hell.

Normally I wouldn't say something like that but DS came to me this evening and said, "Dad, you had a bad day.", and began to list all the stuff that has happened.

One of the high points of the day was X screamng obscenities at me on the phone. It was different this time because I was more detached and although I became upset I did not engage her at all. I recall an extended time of silence when I said nothing to her in response. Also after she hung up on me and called back (yes, sigh, I did answer) I asked if she was still there.

I was made aware I've made a "baby step" of my own when DD commented to me after the phone spew, "Dad, you didn't use one cuss word the whole time." I was floored as I was trying to be reserved but not aware I had used none at all. I hate to admit that when profanity is flying my way in a fast and furious manner by one with whom I was previously emotionally involved I would sometimes return a measure of the same. That comment by DD may, no, was, the hight point of my day as I did at least one thing right (in front of my children) and have made some progress.

Although out of the blue, the spew from X was basically old hat. However she did dwell on a new theme that I had "no respect" for her during our M or now. Does anyone else find such a comment strange when it is made strewn within "F U's"? She also said she "hates" me. How ironic as I have thought recently (for the first time) that I may actually hate her. I was tempted but refrained from telling her I hate her too as the emotional toll of shared custody has been wearing upon me of late.

I agreed by phone to meeting at a city park so she could see the children. While there we had what I would call the first of what will probably be many family meetings to come. She related how hard this is on her to which I responded (in front of the children) that it is hard on all of us. The children agreed. I then told her the children have told me they miss me the weeks they are with her and miss her the weeks they are with me. Her bacic premise is that she has been overly generous by agreeing to joint custody (thanks be to she who controls all) and therefore I should accomidate her by giving her access to the children at her convience the weeks I have them.

So after a bad day, DS came up to me at bedtime and said, "Dad, I'm sorry you had a bad day" and began to list the things that happened today.

I hate this sh*t.
Posted By: graceallday Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 06:08 AM
some how i know we all have to keep the kids in mind...and having both parents in this hell is probably whats best..but help me understand how come your wife ( or any WAS) thinks they should have custody is beyond me....destroy the family and oh by the way ...they get the kids.....I KOW THERE IS NO LOGIC IN ANY OF THIS BUT I SAY CALL HER ON HER BS....THE WALK AWAY GETS TO WALK ANWAY AND TAKE NOTHING...THAT HOW I WOULD DO IT IF I WAS THE JUDGE...
Posted By: Fallgirl Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 06:58 AM
I`m just bothered that the kids see so much of you two fighting.Still! And are cauught up in the middle of it.

When your S says "Dad, I`m sorry you had a bad day" Why is HE sorry? Does he feel its his fault?

In seeing you cussing her mother how does your D feel about half her DNA?How is she learning to deal with conflict?What kind of a man will she be attracted to?

Sleeper, wake up! Detach from your wife. She made her choice-and it deosn`t include you. She may well be conflicted with that, she may well be emotionally involved at some level. She may well enjoy the fact that two men are fighting over her. Whatever.

You can do better than this.You are not respecting you, your kids or indeed, your ladyfriend this way.

Its a damn bloody painful place. And rejection is a damn bloody painful experience.Why do you keep seeking it out?

Mind yourself!You sound like a really good, talented, warm guy. You can do better than this.

Mind your kids!Your job is to fill their memory bank with lots of love and wonderful times together(just the three of you!)
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 03:31 PM
Quote:
When S says "Dad, I'm sorry you had a bad day" Why is HE sorry? Does he feel it's his fault?


DS is very bright AND very sensitive. He had given me a hard time by repeatedly not following instructions in the afternoon and realized that added to the difficulty of my "bad day".

The truth eventualy comes out and both children have already come to the conclusion that X is the source of all conflict. I believe in their own time they will conclude as I have that X is not stable. DS once commented after phone spew in which X used a plethora of obscenities and I probably used one or two, "Thanks for standing up for us dad." I think she was 8 years old then.

This is just another episode in X's neverending saga; we're divorced but I'm still going to get what I want when I want it and if I don't "I'll make your life a living hell." The comment in quotation marks she said once when we were standing outside the car the kids were in because she wanted them even though it was my week and I said no. (I'm sure they heard).

Ladyfriend and I are done. That was another development in yesterday's "bad day." We were moving that direction anyway as you may have read. Ironically in the spew yesterday X threatened to break us up. What she did not do deliberately she contributed to effectively. X doesn't know of course but the kids will eventually tell her.

I'm not seeking this out. All this came to me yesterday from X. She had been wanting to see the kids since Friday but every time she called I had plans or was in the car going somewhere with them. By yesterday afternoon all that pent up entitlement exploded into a lava flow of vitrol and profanity laced with legal and personal threats.

Quote:
Your job is to fill their memory banks with lots of love and wonderful times together


I will. We're going to have a great time together today.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 06:10 PM
Sleeper, I am sorry--that is indeed a bad day.

I can tell you've managed the very best that you can.....
Posted By: *KS*Chick* Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/04/09 08:25 PM
sleeper - I'm thinking Fallgirl hit it right on the head. Your ex wife has remarried, and is making a new life with her husband and it does not include you - and shouldn't. You need to stop focusing on what she is doing, or what he is doing and make sure that your children KNOW they are the focus of your love. If the kids are present, don't talk to her - if you don't feel you can both be civil. Teach them that no matter what has happened with the parents, you are there for them. And by participating in group dinners, you are sending such a strange mixed signal to them. I mean, if your ex wife asked you to join her and her husband in bed, would you do that as well?

Sigh...

Stop debating and really read some of the things posted to you. Don't provide an excuse or a rebuttal for every statement. Just stop, read, process.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/05/09 02:58 PM
I'd stick to the visitation schedule from now on.

Did LF take it badly?
Posted By: drewnole Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 12:00 AM
Sleeper,

Sounds like your X still wants to control you. I am glad that you stood up to her during your scheduled week with your children.


Now, concerning your LF, that's crazy if she threatened to break you two up. She can't stand to see you be happy.

Let her words go in one ear and out the other. Be strong and continue to be there for your children.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 12:44 AM
Quote:
I'd stick to the visitation schedule from now on.


Since she has the kids this week I'll make myself very scarce (I've only been scarce). It's a start.

Quote:
Did LF take it badly?


Yeah. We had a bit of a blowup (I was stressed from phone spew with X which interfered with our plans resulting in a fuss) and she actually suggested we call it quits. Although we discussed our sitch very calmly and we both know it will never work there is a part of her that I can tell doesn't want to let go. She is a truly good person and a beautiful woman. I don't want to lose her as a friend but sense that is what will have to happen. I guess that means there is a part of me that doesn't want to let go either.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 01:13 AM
Quote:
Sounds like your X still wants to control you....that's crazy if she threatened to break you two up. She can't stand to see you happy.


Ah, the analysis.....

X has MAJOR control issues as diagnosed by C. I have learned these are generally born of insecurities. Yes indeed, she threatened to break us up.

She suggested I date another lady two a weeks ago. I have not posted this but she commented, "You'll have fun" if I went out with this other lady (major turnoff). She also asked me if I was in love with Ladyfriend.

I'm not sure if she;

1)Can't stand to se me happy (isn't happy herself?).
2)Doesn't want me dating someone with kids (what she claims).
3)Wants me available if she changes her mind (OMH's fortune from his cookie said "Don't change anything about you." which he immediately shoved into X's face last week at the unexpected dysfunctional dinner). Hmmmmmmm.

The only thing I am sure of is that SHE is STILL the center of her own universe as she bemoaned her pain the weeks when she doesn't have the children and how "hard this has all been" on her. She forgot she wanted me to take the kids asap at separation as she was interested only in the single party life. I responded joint custody has been hard on all of us including the children as they were standing in front of us at the time of the discussion. The kids agreed, nodding their heads. Point made (and its significance immediately lost) upon X.

Whatever.

I have a fall project which happens to be ME.

I know what I need to do.

I'm doing it.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 01:15 AM
Sleeper, I like your last two lines. You and me both.

I will also work on GAL. I have been lonely and need to build a new social life.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 01:25 AM
She just called.

I didn't answer.

Enough said.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 01:31 AM
Originally Posted By: sleeper
She just called.

I didn't answer.

Enough said.

Actions speak louder than words. You just shouted.
Posted By: drewnole Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 01:50 AM
Originally Posted By: sleeper
[quote]She suggested I date another lady two a weeks ago. I have not posted this but she commented, "You'll have fun" if I went out with this other lady (major turnoff). She also asked me if I was in love with Ladyfriend.



The lady she is trying to set you up with must not be a threat to her. Run my friend.
Posted By: dl443322 Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 03:09 AM
I have some questions for you. Why do you care what the hell your ex thinks, feels, says? Who cares why she wants to break up you and your gf or that she tells you you should date?

She is still the center of YOUR universe.

Sleeper, move the heck on. You can still stand, if you choose, but, really, you are way too far up in her stuff, man.

You need to live your life and let her live hers. You should only be talking regarding the children. And then only if there is a problem.

Move forward and embrace this journey. Learn what you can about you, grow, change, teach and love your children.

Live YOUR life.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/06/09 02:39 PM
Write her off for the time being... if she sh*t-cans OMH in the future, then you can revisit your R with her (if you still want to). I'm glad you're finally putting yourself front and center!
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/08/09 02:02 AM
Sleeper,

Remember the bike analogy? You have been doing all the peddling. Stop peddling.

That's just about where I am.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/12/09 02:03 AM

This was so rich I must share it with you all (the fortune in my cookie from lunch).......

"Now is the time to go ahead and pursue that love interest!"

I think I'll eat at Mexican resturants for a while.
Posted By: Fallgirl Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/14/09 01:25 PM
Sleeper, maybe your love interest should be you!

Mind you! Mind the kids! Let X slip out of your life.

I`m really begining to wonder if on some level some of us DBers are just plain addicted to spouses who treat us badly.

C`mon you`re a talented guy, GAL goals please for you and your kids!
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/14/09 06:00 PM
Sleeper, You will move forward. It is difficult but you will do it.

Do not have regrets for doing your very, very best by the whole situation.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/15/09 01:03 AM
Quote:
I'm really beginning to wonder if on some level some of us DBers are must plain addicted to spouses who treat us badly.


I don't think so, Fallgirl. I was thinking today how messed up X was at bomb; the alien invasion thing, 1,000 mile stare, rages, etc.

The real proof I wasn't imagining things was her disregard for the kids and not missing them. The past couple of weeks she has mentioned several times how much she misses them and how "hard" it is to not have them 50% of the time. She also doesn't sound herself on the phone. She sounds depressed.

We're not addicted to spouses who treat us badly, we know something is wrong with them.

I do have goals for myself and my kids. I've been working out again. I'm back on my meds. The kids and I are going on a three day camping trip this weekend.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/15/09 01:25 AM
Thanks forward.

It is like the C said: The script was already written when this began. I couldn't stop it but I do think my 180's may have slowed it down and made her think twice. I have tried to steer this towards the path of least destruction and in some respects I may have succeeded.

We are cordial, even friendly to one another. So much so to the point that I can tell she responds to me differently on the phone when she is alone compared to when she is talking to me and OM is with her. She calls me so much when he is out of town that the other day she said, "OK, this is the last time I'm going to bother you." when she called.

I can tell OM really doesn't like me now. Someone once described him as a "pompus *ss". That description popped into my head the other day and it perfectly describs they way he responds to me of late. What's the old saying? "Marriage doesn't change people, it reveals who they truly are." Funny how Karma has a way of working, isn't it?

I have no regrets.

It is what it is and I did what I did, or.....

"I is what I is and I am what I am." Popeye
Posted By: Fallgirl Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/15/09 10:08 AM
I`m glad you have some fun lined up for you and the kids, Sleeper. I`ve been reading so many different theories about why I am still with H I still can`t say I`ve really figured it out-and maybe never will!

Yip, I do agree that my H isn`t well either but in some way my reaction to his `sickness` is part of what he needs to justify his anger. He needs to blame me for his unhappiness.

I don`t mean to lecture you-too much in a muddle myself with all of this.

It`s energy sapping stuff.Keeping my calm and minding me are the best things I`ve done.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/21/09 01:26 AM
Having weird dreams again.

Last night I dreamed X and I were in an antique auto that was pulling a trailer. I guess we both had too much baggage to fit into the trunk.

I just read in the local paper that the local opera will be presenting "Man of LaMancha" this weekend (I kid you not). I'm considering going.

Somebody wake me up.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/21/09 02:13 AM
I think you should go to the local opera. The wild winds of fortune will carry you onward!

Glad to hear you are going camping. You and your kids deserve to have some fun and I hope you do it.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/23/09 02:53 PM
You could write an opera...

Have fun.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/26/09 09:58 PM

If I do it will be over on "Surviving the Big D" as that is where I need to be.

Farewell to all.

Good hunting and good luck.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/26/09 10:01 PM
Sleeper, Please stay in this forum--we are able to follow each other's stories through.

PS: You have fought the good fight. Have no regrets.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/27/09 02:34 AM
Thanks, forward.

Were you "Breton" at one time?

I did try. I succeeded in DBing in the respect that I am a much better father than I ever was. I still have a lot of work to do on myself. I've been in a fairly significant depression lately but have resumed my meds (Oct. 6th).

I've had a lot of hand grenades thrown my way as have we all. I handled them as best I could at the time. I must have done OK as X remarked a couple of weeks ago she told someone I am, "a really nice guy who has gotten his act together". If that is a valid observation then I have accomplished something.

I'm thinking of planning a road trip for one of the holiday breaks, either Thanksgiving or Christmas. I've always wanted to stay in some of the old themed roadside motels along the old two lane highways. The kids would love it. If there is snow nearby this winter I'm taking the kids to it. DS has never seen snow and DD doesn't remember seeing it. The opportunity presented itself a couple of years ago but I didn't go. Next time I will.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/27/09 06:31 PM
Yes, go! Lots of weird old roadside attractions still hanging around those old motor lodges.

Are you okay?
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/28/09 12:08 AM
Sleeper, Yes, I was. I am the same.

Keep posting here as we can learn from each other in MLC world.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/28/09 01:36 AM
Quote:
Lots of weird old roadside attractions still hanging around those old motor lodges.


Yep. I wanted my parents to stay at "The Wigwams" in Cave City, Kentucky when I was a child (pre-interstate highway system....ouch!) We would eat there sometimes but never stayed because we had relatives who lived nearby and we stayed with them. I looked them up a couple of years ago and they were still open.

Quote:
Are you okay?


Oh yeah, I'm great. I had a root canal today. Seriously I did. Didn't think of any of this mlc crap the entire time I was in the dentist's chair. I have a high resistance to novocaine (takes a lot and works very slowly with me). So on the second try the dentist ran the needle right into the nerve. The side of my face and sinuses on that side felt like they had burst into flames. It got better after that.

I was very depressed for a couple of weeks, not sure why. Maybe it was so I would fill the scrip for antidepressants I've had since mid-summer. Then after I started them I had a small cluster of migraines. Don't know if it was related but I'm better now.

This past summer was difficult; Mom fell and broke her hip, I moved to a new apt, X got married.

Now Mom is home and has progressed from a walker to a cane (she's a tough old bird), I and the kids are in a bigger, quieter apartment and X is married to OMH and experiencing the end of the honeymoon and the reality of the life she has chosen.

I'm okay.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/28/09 01:56 AM
Quote:
...Please stay in this forum--...


OK Breton. I thought that was you and decided to stay when you made the above request.

Thank You.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/29/09 12:22 AM
Sleeper,
We (the LBSers) have gone through a lot w/our MLC spouses. It is not always easy to take care of ourselves as we need to.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/29/09 03:14 PM
OUCH! You don't have red or reddish hair, do you? My sister usually needs 2 X the anesthesia a normal person does-- it's a common thing with redheads, although nobody knows why. Yikes.

You are way overdue for a break.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 10/29/09 03:16 PM
I'm glad your mom's doing so well!
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 01:49 AM
Sleeper, How are things going overall?
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 03:19 AM
Overall I guess they're going pretty well. X and I are co-parenting with more and more ease. I'm no longer concerned about whether or not she is eating cake and I just do what feels right to me. I find it interesting that when our ideas of what is "right" aren't in sync I no longer get reamed by X. She is also more and more willing to do things which help me out when I have the kids.

Emotionally I'm a little down now. I was very down for much of Oct and then up near the end. I think it may be a leveling off of my emotional state due to the meds leveling off in my system.

"What goes up, must come down..." David Clayton-Thomas, "Spinning Wheel" Blood Sweat and Tears, 1969

On the twisted side......

As we were leaving after I picked up the kids from X last night X called out, "Family hug,...Blended family hug!" And motioned for the five of us (X, DD, DS, OMH AND me) to circle up and hug. DS efectively refused to be part of the circle, as he insisted upon being in the middle of it instead.

I couldn't help but mutter aloud, "More like blendered family hug."

The kids immediately went to either side of X prior to DS moving to the middle of the circle, leaving OMH and I in the position of contact with each other. OMH wouldn't put his arm around me in the circle. It took everything I had to not say, "Aw, come on man! Gimme some love!" and throw my arm around his neck (my male interpretation of dancing while wearing a purple dress and red hat). The resulting "circle" was more like a "U" (my arm around X, hers around DD, DD's around OMH, DS in the middle).

I kid you not.

Quote:
How are things going overall?


I am not insane

I am NOT insane

I AM not insane

I AM NOT insane

I AM NOT INSANE

Sorry for the redundancy but I find the above exercise cathartic from time to time.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 06:31 AM
Why did you do this? It continues to validate her actions. She has no consequences. I'm sorry Sleeper, but this is not healthy for your kids.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 11:54 AM
Quote:
Why do you do this?


This time it was because I was really caught off guard. Didn't see it coming, never would have dreamed it would be suggested by her.

If she suggests it again I won't.

On the other hand I can't help but believe OMH was caught off guard just as much and more affected by it than I being the self-centered egotist that he is. How would any man feel about his new bride requesting a group hug with her X-husband?
Posted By: MaMaMo Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 03:39 PM
How would any man feel about his new bride requesting a group hug with her X-husband?

Does it matter how he feels when he is married to her?

You don't know what goes on behind close doors with them, she will spin like "it was for the kids"


Really your wife gets it "ALL" a new hubby that will more than likely stick it out with her, just to prove YOU wrong, an EX-Husband who is still waiting in the wrings just in case she changes her mind, what has your ex-wife learned with any of the damage she left behind with her affair?

A Big Fat Nothing, she is just sailing along smoothly like nothing she has done has had any affect on her kids family friends, she has no conflict or ill affects from her affair.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 04:59 PM
Originally Posted By: MaMaMo
Really your wife gets it "ALL" a new hubby that will more than likely stick it out with her, just to prove YOU wrong, an EX-Husband who is still waiting in the wrings just in case she changes her mind, what has your ex-wife learned with any of the damage she left behind with her affair?


Which means that neither Sleeper nor OMH will ever have a 'real' relationship with her. They both lose until one of them refuses to play her game.

And the kids get to see that there are no rules in relationships, just do what you want, when you want, whatever makes you happy.

Oh, and for the female children, well men are just possessions.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 05:16 PM
: )

Sleeper...man.

Your wife lives in a fantasy world she created.

But that you put the sweat equity into making.

No 4x4's.

Honest.

I KNOW I couldn't do what you are doing.

I don't see how this is good for you as a man or person.

You were the LBS of an MLC who had an OM...and now you are border line OM to the XW, who in my opinion is STILL in MLC with an new H that just happened to be her OM.

It is like a soap opera.

You deserve better, but that will only happen if YOU make it happen.
Posted By: Bworl Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 08:53 PM
No piling on here, I promise.

I think you're doing the best you can to navigate a life change that sucks to the high heavens.

I know you still love her. It is there in almost every post that you write. No one can fault you for that. You have had a life together, made children together, been through very goods and extremely bads together. It only makes sense.

The day will come however when you will tire of holding on, when you will begin to really feel the impact of what she's done. You will consider what has happened along the way, what lines have been crossed, what bridges have been burned by her actions.

In the meantime, don't allow the difficulty of forging a new life for yourself to drag you down over and over again. Fill your life with the things YOU want, the things YOU need, and the things YOU dream of. I think as your life becomes more and more YOURS, she will matter less and less.

Then maybe you can get off the ride...


Blessings,

Bill
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/03/09 11:39 PM
Sleeper,
I think you're doing your best. Take care of Sleeper and post here as you need to.
Posted By: graceallday Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 01:08 AM
I think Sleeper like you said you got caught off guard.....and dont do that again.....

your wife makes me mad.....
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 01:31 AM
Sleeper's X makes me mad but she also sounds nuttier than most, just very, very messed up.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 03:26 AM
Quote:
...she also sounds nuttier than most, just very, very messed up.


I am overwhelmed by this comment as I have dwelt upon the same conclusion over the past day or so. Forward commented many months ago that my sitch was somewhat different than most others on the boards as X has maintained a weird connection with me throughout this.

Here's something I didn't share earlier because I really wasn't sure how to do so; At the time of the weird "blended family hug" X asked a question a wife would normally only ask her husband. She directed the question to both OMH and myself and then looked back and forth from him to myself waiting for an answer. It was an uncomfortable moment but as is my style I broke the silence with a humorous response. She is screwed up.

X was seriously abused as a child. She has had very little stability in her life. No member of her family now has/has had a stable, normal relationship. Our D was sexually assualted at a very young age (lots of triggers for X). Her surrogate parent figures died within 16 months of one another, the latter triggering her mlc. She has mentioned (angrily) that my desent into PTSD denied her the luxury of a "breakdown" as "someone had to keep it together."

She said to me on two different occasions just post bomb but pre-separation, "I don't know who I am," and "Sleeper, I'm all messed up", slumping into my chest as she made the second comment.

I no longer spend time trying to figure all this out. The above are simply observations I have made. C says he believes her subconscious has created a script that she is following and only her subconscious knows how it is expected to end.

I can (and am) only doing what I am able; Taking care of myself and my children to the best of my abilities.

I'm about to get into the best physical shape of my life (I've been accepted into a program which requires I pass a flight physical at work).

The kids have often said they wanted to make candy.

We're going to make some this holiday season.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 06:12 AM
I think your compassion for your wife (if that's what it is) is laudable. And you're a grown man, so if you want to hang on like grim death, well, it's your funeral.

Here's what concerns me about your situation: It IS a *very* weird connection. And your kids are learning about relationships by watching yours. Regardless of what you say or they say after the fact, they are internalizing what they SEE. Stuff like that blended family hug, or your x asking some kind of husband-specific question and looking back and forth between you and OMH for a response .... if that stuff passes unchallenged by you -- or worse, is blown off with humor as unimportant -- what kind of message is that sending your kids?

At some point, it doesn't matter why she does the screwed-up things she does. It only matters whether you consent-through-silence to seeing them likely continued into the next generation. IMHO.

It occurs to me that every time I post on your thread, I bust your chops. I feel like I should apologize for that. But damn, it's 'cause I think you're wiser than this.

Have fun with the candy. What kind?
Posted By: Fallgirl Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 05:22 PM
I don`t think the labels matter a whole pile. Fact is when love goes wrong(and there`s people all over the boards who are testimony to this)a huge craziness is spawned.

Me I`ve been busy looking at my husbands craziness, living with it, blaming him for it. But it wasn`t until I went to therapy that I got to look in the mirror and see my part in the stirring the crazy beast up.

Yup, IMHO crazy beast was dormant(and bred-like so many others here-in his childhood). But I stirred it up.

So I really think we need to see what draws us to someone who`s got problems in the first place.(Need to feel superior?Low self esteem issues?Have some of that crazy in us too?)Heal that in us. Stand and hope for our spouse to wise up. And be ready to move on.

This isn`t time to point the finger at our spouses, gasp, laugh,be bewildered by their crazy stuff.

Its time to look at ourselves and truly love ourselves enough to give us the very best chance to become whole.

Sleeper, I love what you`re doing-fun with kids and physically looking after yourself. Sounds like you`re moving forward.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/04/09 08:55 PM
Toffee and peanut brittle make great gifts.

The physical training is going to be good for your head, too.

Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/05/09 02:14 AM
Sleeper, I think that refusing to participate in group hug nonsense is good for all of you. Going dim is better for you, too. The kids will hope you will get back together and they see this really dysfunctional situation. Someone has to be sane.

You have to wipe the slate clean. This is something that I realized. In the now-unlikely event that we should get back together, it would have to be a completely different kind of relationship, in order to be healthy.

You have to close this chapter before you can even consider a new one. You have to b an Ex before you could even consider something new.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/05/09 02:38 AM
Quote:
The kids will...see this really dysfunctional situation.


They have/are beginning to see.

They know when X is spewing. It was DD that commented recently that I didn't use any profanity responding to X on the phone during spew. That was a two-edged sword as I didn't realize I had previously responded with at least one profane statement when this occured.

DD asked recently why X got xyz and I got nothing in the financial settlement. She continued by saying it wasn't "fair".

DD is now reluctant to bring up some of her concerns/problems with X as she explains, "Mom will just freak out" so she talks to me instead.

Out of the blue she mentioned X and OMH were "screaming" at one another Sunday morning (before taking the kids with them to church). She went on to tell me X told her that "couples do that from time to time". There is the problem as they are being taught by observation of X and OMH that such "screaming" is normal in a R.

Short of saying, "Your mother and OMH are not healthy, neither is their R", the only thing I can do is comfort them and be the best father I possibly can.
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/05/09 03:16 AM
What is a DD? Divorced Daughter? Deranged Daughter? Doobie Doo?
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/05/09 12:00 PM
DD = Dear Daughter
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/06/09 12:25 AM
Sleeper, You could say that you do not think it is right to scream at each other and leave it at that?
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/14/09 04:11 PM
Another skirmish in World War Spew.

School picture date for kids was rescheduled. As I was taking kids to school yesterday DD mentioned the order form was at X's and had to be turned in that morning. After taking kids to school I called and texted X with no response/answer. I made a couple of more attempts and she answered her work phone.

After confirming that she had the form and explaining the sitch to her she exploded. Of course it was all my fault. Why didn't I; Tell her earlier, Come by her house on the way to school and pick it up, Call the school, Go by the school and get another form, etc., finally hanging up on me as I calmly reminded her she had the form for a week and a half and she was the one who failed to take care of it.

She then called back but I did not answer (in the past this has usually resulted in more spew and what is the point?). She followed by texting an apollogy and requesting I answer my phone followed by an additional text of apollogy when I didn't respond. I finally texted that I accepted her appology and was "busy." She called at the end of the day and I did answer. She apollogized again but got off the phone quickly as she seemed tired, stressed or distracted.

I have been through a bout of depression the past few months. I now find myself moving from depression over all this to anger at OMH and X for the damage they have done to my life and the lives of my children. I am rapidly reaching the point where I don't give a ____ what happens to X.

I texted her this AM to inform her that I am taking the kids out of town tomorrow and that I would not be able to help her with the kids next weekend while she works as she had previously requested. I have asked for the kids a day or two early next week as they are out of school and I want to take them on a trip. Her request was a bit of a quid pro quo.

She texted her response: "Ok"
Posted By: frank_D Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/14/09 05:07 PM
Originally Posted By: sleeper

I have been through a bout of depression the past few months. I now find myself moving from depression over all this to anger at OMH and X for the damage they have done to my life and the lives of my children. I am rapidly reaching the point where I don't give a ____ what happens to X.


Me too, and I realize how hard this is for people like you and me. We want to think the best of them, but that kills us.

Anger is a healer. We need to allow this because they DID do a lot of damage regardless of what we think of our own blame. Neither you nor I did anything that justifies them breaking up the family and having affairs. Nothing.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/16/09 02:23 AM
I reread FG's response and it is great. Yes, we have to heal ourselves. We have to do this so that we can recognize what our mistakes were and try to do better next time. We will grow and move on.

"I now find myself moving from depression over all this to anger at OMH and X for the damage they have done to my life and the lives of my children. I am rapidly reaching the point where I don't give a ____ what happens to X."

You may always care, but it is a distant caring. Perhaps ladyfriend was YOUR bandaid, sigh.

As far as being angry, well, you are also being honest, and that is healthy, Sleeper. Forgiving someone who turns our lives upside down and hurts us so badly is not easy--and it is not as if they are saying they are sorry.
Posted By: fisherman Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/25/09 08:25 PM
Hey man,

How have you been?

I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Drop by and let us know how you're doing.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/25/09 11:57 PM
Also checking up on Sleeper.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/26/09 04:54 AM
I'm good.

My kids and I just returned from a camping trip out of state. We had a blast hiking and exploring and will definately go back one day. We pitched our tent about 30 yards from a small waterfall.

The kids are out of school for the week and I have them.

I'm good.
Posted By: Andabelle Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/27/09 06:32 PM
That sounds FANTASTIC. I'm glad you did that with the kids. Those kinds of memories will stay with them always.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/28/09 03:50 AM
For those who are into the ephemeral I had a dream a little over a week ago in which I felt X was done with OMH and comtemplating bringing it to an end.

For those who are focused upon the empirical;

X mentioned she wanted to go with me and the kids on our camping trip last weekend and asked me if that would be "OK". I didn't know what to say and don't remember what I did say. She did not go. She asked that I have the kids call her while we were gone. I obliged as I've never refused such a request and she let me have the kids early on her time. The kids were having so much fun at one point she TMed me she wished she had gone and wanted to go the next time.

Tonight she knew I was taking DS to a movie and a "boy's night out" as DD is on a sleepover. She called as we were on the way to the movie and asked if she could come too. Once again I didn't know quite what to say and hesitated but then she concluded it would be "weird" and decided she would not join us.

She related to me how much she missed the kids and wanted to be with them as she apologized/explained why she wanted to go with us. I told her I totally understood and no explanation was necessary as I have experienced the same emotion when she has the kids.

She has called twice since we left the movie. The first to ask how the movie was and the second to ask if she could take DS for ice cream. I told her it was too late and she agreed.
Posted By: MaMaMo Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/28/09 03:49 PM

"She related to me how much she missed the kids and wanted to be with them"


Does your wife not understand that this is what happens when you have an affair divorce your spouse and marry some one else, you both lose time with your kids and when they are with the other parent, you don't get to tag along period.

Not sure where you ex's mind is or why she thinks she is entitled to time with the kids when it's your weekend.

Your not the back up plan when her husband is away for the week, I bet he was out of town when she pulled this, it seem to be her motto.


I think you should write downs some pat answers when she goes to LaLa Land and request things that a MARRIED TO ANOTHER MAN WOMAN should not ask of her EX Husband.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/29/09 06:25 PM
Quote:
Not sure where your ex's mind is or why she thinks she is entitled to time with the kids when it's your weekend. You're not the back up plan when her husband is away for the week, I bet he was out of town when she pulled this, it seems to be her motto.


My X is damaged goods. Her feeling of entitlement on access to the kids has faded. She now asks and I oblige when it is convienent for me. On one of her subsequent call the other evening she asked to see DS but I told her it was too late. I cannot help her with her issues but only feel my way through this and set up what I believe to be healthy boundaries when I recognize a need of such as I navigate my way through this minefield.

No, he was at the house the other night when I went by with DS to get some of DS's stuff. He hovers over her and follows her around like a puppy dog. His being OK with her "tagging along" would be evidence to her of what a "great guy" he is although I'm beginning to see such as evidence of how messed up he is also.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 11/29/09 09:38 PM
Sleeper, I have to agree that your X's request to go along on a trip is just weird. I think a boundary there is appropriate--too confusing for the kids, which, of course, is the most important thing.

Not to mention that it would upset OM. Which I am sure is important to you. Not!!! (Have to admit that any thought of upsetting OP is entertaining as I am just not that big of a person.)

The peek that I got of OW showed me that yes, the OPs are pretty messed up.

You sound better.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/11/09 11:02 PM
How are things, Sleeper?
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/14/09 01:59 AM
My X is crazy.

And all God's children said....doh!

My summation (to make a long story short) is that not having our children 50% of the time is breaking her down.

Interesting as first thing I told the C when the bomb was dropped was that something was wrong with X because she no longer seemed to care for her children (wanted me to take them as much as possible so she could party with OM/her new friends).

I just had a run in with her on the phone because she wanted them (on my time). She didn't get them, went manipulative (attempting to get me to bring them to her), then psycho (I refused) on the phone. OM is with her so he gets to deal with her. His X is bipolar so he must be one sick puppy as I conclude he is attracted to this type.

The sad but reinforcing thing about all this is that ironically DS was remenising how X used to scream at me just before X called. DD seems to believe the same as X said she was going to take DD's phone away from her because she couldn't make contact with her on it this afternoon (she left the charger at X's and left the phone at my place this afternoon).

A new chapter is opening (the observations of my children).
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/14/09 02:09 AM
Sleeper,
Although it is stressful for you, be glad that your X wants to spend time with her kids now. I don't know if it indicates that she is out of hte tunnel or whatever, but at least she cares.

My X does not request more time with our DD, ever. He does not spend time with her beyond what he is obligated to, and he even cuts that short.

I hope she won't have abandonment issues because of this, but I believe she will.
Posted By: sleeper Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/14/09 02:50 AM
Quote:
My X does not request more time with our DD, ever. He does not spend time with her beyond what he is obligated to, and he even cuts that short.


I'm so sorry. Wish I could backhand him (and I'm not a violent person).
Posted By: drewnole Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/14/09 04:08 AM
Forward,

I understand your concern. My X has not seen our S in more than two months. Plus, she hasn't purchased any clothing for him since she left 6 months ago.

That's a choice she has to live with.

We have to continue to provide our children with stability, love, and laughter.
Posted By: forward Re: I am Don Quixote - 12/14/09 11:35 PM
Sleeper, I have seen changes w/him and his R w/her. Gradually things have improved. That is why I try to stay out of the middle and let things happen as they do.

I believe that someday things could be very different. I hope so, anyway.
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