I've decided to move over to the MLC forum from Newcomers. I've been there since last fall and I don't feel very new anymore. Been at this for 2 years now and it's abundantly clear that my H is in MLC and in a very addicted, co-dependent, unhealthy "romantic" A.
Here is a synopsis of my tale:
April '07 - Out of the blue H drops first bomb, moves out to be "by himself", wants to learn how to pay his own bills, concentrate on his tenure portfolio which is due in August, thinks this will be good for us, etc. I was devastated and of course did everything wrong to get him back. He leaves me in a drafty, old house to fend for myself, taking care of two dogs that he insisted on getting, and still paying all the bills from our joint account. He spends most of the summer in Florida at his moms to finish the tenure paperwork - we've gone there at least twice a year for the past 19 years, boating, fishing, planned on retiring there - his mom notices that he rarely went out on the boat and said he didn't take pleasure anymore "pulling fish from their watery homes". His Swedish grandfather taught him to fish. It's in his blood. This kind of comment was totally out of character.
August '07 - Surprise! Admits to OW. They met 20 years ago in graduate school (our first year of marriage). She's vegetarian and an animal rights activist. This explains the fishing comment. Oh, and now he too is a vegetarian - we live in the South and he has always loved barbeque. Tenure deadline passes, he doesn't turn in his portfolio - never finished the work, (guess he was distracted). OW has to have surgery, he travels out-of-state 400 miles every weekend to help her recover and help with her animals - she has twelve cats - hence my nickname for her - Catbitch.
September '07 - May '08 - He continues to travel to see the Catbitch EVERY weekend - I try to be nice, accepting, understanding, blech! He comes over once or twice a week to hang out, does his laundry, cuts the grass, makes a few pathetic attempts to work on the house, and watches TV. We even spend 4 tortuous days in Fl. after Christmas (he spends Christmas week with Catbitch and her family). We try to have R talks but I always end up crying and saying I want him to come home, all he says is "I didn't mean for this to happen, I don't want to hurt you, my feelings just changed, I can't help it, I have to follow my heart".
July '08 - H files for D - says it's to get us out of limbo and just to get the ball rolling - we can always change our minds, it will still take up to 6 months. By now I have DB and am trying new tactics - no calls, emails. I retain my own L after he says we can share his and "please can't we work together on this, please don't contest this". I find out that Catbitch threatens to break it off with him if I contest. Hmmm.
September '08 - I file counterclaim, stating adultery and abandonment. Not a word from H until December. He sends a pitiful email asking to meet and "toast Christmas". I ignore it.
January '09 - He tries another email - we need to talk about finances, about what to do with the house, etc. can't we meet? I send email back- "I don't want to see you anymore if you are still involved with someone else. I will not talk with you about a D. If you insist on this path my L will handle it". I implement complete Darkness. I'm getting stronger.
February '09 - H continues to come to the house once a week when I'm at work to fill his salt water aquarium which I refuse to take care of. He leaves a note saying he's running out of money and may have to declare bankruptcy (he's nearly maxed out 3 credit cards). I call my L and he says it's time for mediation, which is required in this state in a contested D.
March '09 - Mediation is a bust - two hours of sending terms back and forth (we're in separate rooms) then his L has to leave before any conclusion (good for me since I'm still trying to stall this, hoping the Catbitch fantasy will die down eventually.
April '09 - H comes to the house for his usual visit but, surprise! I'm home for spring break. He asks if we can talk. I do my best DB job ever just listening to his non-sense ranting. I don't interrupt or argue or, most importantly, cry. His teaching job ends in May, he only has three paychecks left, and "how can I get a job this summer and be expected to work on the house too?" He says I "humiliated" him at mediation with my pictures of the house (its one big unfinished project, impossible to sell). I finally get to use Puppy's much loved phrase "CONSEQUENCES" - H just looks at me. He has big ideas on what to do with the house - we could rent it or I could get a "female" roommate. Also, if I could just "suffer" (yes he said suffer) through one more year then we could probably sell it once the economy recovers, and would I look over his ideas if he puts it in writing? Sure!
In the meantime, he still continues to travel to OW's every weekend and he's even looking for a job in her state. Does he think he's just going to move there - D or not? He has an appointment with a bankruptcy L this week so I expect to hear from him again soon.
Gosh, this was just going to be a brief overview to catch everyone up to speed. Guess it's hard being brief when a 20 year marriage and a crazed H are falling apart. I've never written a long post so I guess I'm due. It sure does help me though to see in writing what kind of journey this has and continues to be. There's even more about H's personality changes and the Catbitch's hold on him that I'll save for later.
Thanks for reading. I'll try to link my other threads.
Lurkers rejoice.
Thank you for shifting your thread. I have been so fond and impressed by you. I think we should have a virtual painting party. I would be glad to fix this or that old house of yours.
You have been a damn paragon of distancing. You have been incredible. I do not know whether you are in despair or relieved, but I am certain that you have carried on in a very brave way. Keep being proud about that. You do not type much but I am pleased when you do.
Actually, I am wanting retribution. Your husband deserves some. I would like to jerk his chain since I am not able fire on my own jackass. Well, I do, sometimes, and it is not that helpful.
Best wishes. I plan to return to lurking.
Silver Fox-this is the first time I have read your sitch. I am so sorry you are going thru this. Your h and my xh has said some of the similiar things. It still amazes me at how they all say the SAME THINGS basically. I sometimes wonder if my xh is in MLC, then I hear other people talk about what their h and xh are saying and it's basically the same stuff. It sure is common.
My xh told me "if we got divorced, we could always get remarried", he also said, "he loved me but not in love with me and wanted to try a different companionship". He also asked me not to contest the divorce and that he would ALWAYS take care of me and son. He promised me the moon, I fell for it, we used the same lawyer and he doesnt have to help me pay for our home.
My son is 18, so I dont get child support. We also were married for 20 years (this April). He said no WOMAN would ever come before me and son. He also said, no one would ever live with him or he would never be remarried again. We had alot of stress financially but nothing we couldnt have handles. He said he was depressed and unhappy and had to leave. He now lives with a 26 year old girl. They met around end of Jan. first of Feb. and he already proposed to her. Crazy isnt it. Everything he said of course went right out the window. We dont have ANY contact anymore. He stopped taking my calls, although he does still talk with son and they are leaving for fishing trip soon.
I dont understand why is is moving so quick. We have only been divorced for around 4 months and he only met her around 2 and a half months ago at best, maybe the middle of Jan. He was saying a month ago, that her time was almost up and that she was complaining about him going fishing. NOW it suddenly changed, I wish I knew why. Doesnt matter, I just wish I knew.
Anyway, it sounds like you are a very strong person. I didnt find this site until around the time I was divorced, so I didnt ger to DB. Hang in there and trust that GOD will work it out one way or the other.
Take Care,
Renee
Hi Silver
Thanks for stopping by my new thread and for letting me know where you are now.
I still want to smack your H around a bit, nothing new there.
How have you been doing since that spring break visit? I know you were going to do some thinking about which route to go now. Have you come to any decisions or are you still letting things sit for now?
Hi Silver Fox,
I actually read some of your sitch about a week ago, and liked your use of the "consequences" comment that I used it myself!
My H didn't want to come over to help me with filing of our joint tax return (first time for me) and I said, "Neither do I, but that's the consequences of the choices that you made. I had no choice in the matter."
Glad you came over to this forum!
Trampledheart
Welcome to the long haul Silver.
Few questions for you.
Can your husband tell how anger you are with him when you do interact?
Do you want to be married to him?
The idea is to find things at work and focus on them. Dettaching can be good on many levels, what do you think it is doing for you? Do you need it to protect yourself, or are you doing to punish him?
Silver, you are my hero too.
I love how flabbergasted your h gets when you calmly set your boudaries. You have great style.
Thanks everyone for responding,
Flicka - I always enjoy your comments, please don't disappear
Sunshine - I've read some of your posts recently - you know good and well that a 26 year old and a 40 year old don't have a snowball's chance, especially when it's a rebound R so spend your time thinking about something else!
Pearl - you have my permission to smack my H anytime - the ball is in his court again - I'll wait for the next contact he makes and try to stay calm assertive
Trampledheart - I'll catch up with your story soon - I've learned alot from Puppy's advice (the consequences response)- read his posts where ever you can find them
Kimmie Lee - it was a long time coming - I cried everytime I saw H the first year. He even said one time "I give up, it's not worth it, I can't be responsible for ruining your life". I knew then that that was not how I wanted him to come home.
Jack - Thanks for your tough questions - that's one of the reasons I moved over here - I wasn't being challenged.
So, I think anger is the one emotion I've had trouble expressing this whole time. I freely cried and expressed my hurt, surprise, and devastation everytime we got into R talks when the bombs first dropped, but I never yelled or cursed or threw things. I'm a pretty calm, laid back, patient person. The most angry response H got from me was over the phone after I received his filing - I called him with "Thanks a lot, great timing a week before our 20th annniversary and be sure you tell your girlfriend I will indeed be contesting". Gee, looking at it in print it doesn't sound very angry, but I was yelling and he's not used to that!
And yes, I do want to be married to him. I try to focus on who he really is, the one I've known since he was 22.
But as others have said, right now he's not the man I married and if that man doesn't return I'll have to let him go.
SF,
I'm wondering how old your H's OW is...is she younger than him?
How exactly would it affect the OW if you contested it?
Trampledheart
Silver Fox,
Seldom should you care what others say, including myself. You'll know right from the pride swelling in your chest, or the sharp stab of pain from ignoring it.
OW...don't waste too much of your time on them, what they are doesn't define you or your husband, just more proof of the MLC as most MLCers have an affair.
acting crazy...check
ILYBINILWY...check
[censored] -ing someone else...check
Have your read the resources at the top, the MLC resources? Look make sure he fits the MLC pattern, if he does...it sucks, but if he does, you're in good company, and my personal take, that some will agree with and others wil not is that the MLC does come out of it (years...plural). I have no hard numbers or fact, just my gut instinct.
Thanks TH and Jack,
I'll respond to your posts later tonight. For now, I just got home from work and there's a sad, sad sounding message on my answering machine from H - "I'm wondering if I can come over tonight, I need to get the tax forms. I tried to call you on your cell, guess you've had the number changed - I'll email you". The call was at 7:15 this morning - he knows or used to know that I leave the house by 7. There's no email either.
And no, I haven't changed my cell#, he just hasn't used it in so long he's forgotten it. And, the grass is knee high, trees and limbs are still down from the storm 2 months ago, the house is STILL falling in but he has to have the tax forms? For what? He doesn't bother to say but he was supposed to meet with a bankruptcy L this week.
So I'm sitting here trying to decide what to do. I'm tempted to just email and say the tax forms are on the table, I've got plans for tonight. But I don't really and I don't want to just drive around avoiding him.
Any advice?
Do what you can do successfully with him.
IF you can be in the same house and not get: angry, mopey, needy, weepy...pick a crappy description. Then be there.
IF you cannot? Go for a ride and leave the forms on the table.
Seeing him just to see him, hoping that somehow, this time it will be different, he'll look up and see me and realize what he is losing...well that works in movies...crappy ones at that.
Advice: Have no expectations.
Sit on the porch with a shotgun.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!
I love you Flicka. Can you move here for awhile and be me?
Well, I called my "on call" girlfriend and we went out for dinner. Just got back - no other phone calls from H, no email, and it doesn't look like he was here either. I guess he changed his mind since that early morning call? What ever.
Thank you Jack for this:
Do what you can do successfully with him.
IF you can be in the same house and not get: angry, mopey, needy, weepy...pick a crappy description. Then be there.
IF you cannot? Go for a ride and leave the forms on the table.
Seeing him just to see him, hoping that somehow, this time it will be different, he'll look up and see me and realize what he is losing...well that works in movies...crappy ones at that.
Advice: Have no expectations.
I'm pretty sure now since his visit 2 weeks ago that I can control my emotions and I'm way past the seeing him just to see him - did that all last year. Tonight I just wanted to do the "I'm unavailable" method and I really didn't want to be bothered with it all - does that mean I've detached? Plus, they are my taxes too, I have a right to know what he wants them for don't I before I hand them over?
Hey Silver, glad you went out to dinner with a gf. Sounds suspiciously like my xBF with wanting to see the cats. Hmm...
Yes, you do have a right to know what's going on with the taxes and his bankruptcy filing if it's going to affect you. But that doesn't mean you have to do it in person if you don't want to.
Seems like the folks over here in MLC are taking good care of you!
Wow Silver... everytime this man tries to approach you, EVERY time, you shut him down. Can you see that? I've said this to you before... I am not sure this is good DBing.. like the time at Christmas he wanted to have a drink with you.
Lets look at it from HIS perspective (I know, he's a selfish MLCer *rse, but hey...)... he calls you to let you know he'd like to come over (which is hard for these guys to swallow their pride and do that).. and says I dont have your cell number.. and.. what do you do? Not return his call, not text/email him to say, sure that would be fine, but what time? NO.. you ignore it and go out. Everytime he asks to see you, or speak, you stonewall him.. if I were him, I'd feel you were VERY angry at me and the path home to you was just too damn difficult, too many of your walls to climb and I just couldnt see how it were possoble.. and as I have had a crisis and scr*wed my life up already, I dont think I can face putting in the hard work to fix this, seeing as yuo dont even want to see me to hand over a tax form....
capiche!?
I was going to ask you what happened about hte discussion we were having on your last thread about stepping away from the safety and security of the LRT and being VERY dark on him.. Jody had said people cling to that technique as its a safety net and comforting. But.. at some point, you do have to try something different and your H keeps trying to engage with you (ok, in his lame, cloaked MLC way) but.. others here have to be the bigger person and be blase and run with any little crumb offered, as a good opportunity to DB (me included) even though ow is STILL in the picture. I am curious why you keep refusing to deal with him.. are you trying to win him back or punish him !!???
So.. you came here to be challenged... thers some food for thought !
Al xxx
Thank you Ali,
I do appreciate your perspective and the challenge is duly noted! And guess what, he was just over here for nearly 3 hours. There was an email from him this morning asking the same thing as the call yesterday - need to get tax forms today. Before I could answer it he sent another one saying he would also like to come over to cut the grass while I was at work. I gave in on this one - glad that the offer came from him, rather than me saying you need to cut the damn grass!
So, after I arrived and he finished with the yard he began where he left off 2 weeks ago:
- "we need to decide what to do with the house"
- "what if I take the house and all the debt and then declare bankruptcy"
- "what if I work on the house and you stay here another year then sell it"
- "renting or you getting a roommate is probably not a good idea" (you think?)
- "I think it's better if we get D first and then bankruptcy"
He had nothing in writing which is what he said he would do 2 weeks ago. But he also said I was right about his L, he's young and hasn't handled many D cases (yeah, I'm right about something!) and maybe we should just meet with my L together.
He cried several times and talked about how he's messed everything up - "I can't even get a D right".
I stayed calm - I think I've finally reached it - I tried to validate - no, H you're not a failure, you can pull yourself out of this, you're capable of making the right choices. I did not talk about the OW AT ALL.
But I did say I was sorry he's in so much pain and that he's beginning to face the consequences of his choices now. I reminded him that he said he was unhappy 2 years ago when he left - are you happy now? (yes, probably a slip up but he didn't answer me anyway). And I said that there is another option. He knew what I meant - this is the closest we got to R talk. His standard reply - "I can't change my feelings" - yuk.
But Ali, he is completely convinced that a D has to happen. Winning him back? - I don't know at this point. Do I win him back by giving him the one thing he wants?
Silver,
It boils down to an easy simple point.
I said a few weeks ago it was about sympathy, and it still is. If there was any regret in him, he'd be BEGGING for a chance to make things right. He knows how you feel.
He had nothing in writing which is what he said he would do 2 weeks ago.
There you go. My W kept saying she was "working" on dissolution papers. I waited three months as she piddled with an affair, then said, "Screw this." I went and got my OWN dissolution papers in less than 2 weeks.
If he refuses the one option that just might allow him to be a man, regain some semblance of dignity, and begin to right the wrongs in his life, then let him.
I know it's easy for me to say, not having your feelings and emotions, but seriously...
I understand Ali's perspective, but I'm sorry - you don't need to go out of your way for anything. You are not pushing him away, the man is having an affair! He has run bankrupt, left you destitute, screwed up his life, and so on.
I'd consider suggesting you change how you react to him if he showed any contrition or attempted to right any wrongs, but he can't even make an attempt?
"I can't change my feelings" - what a line of bullcrap. Suck it up, get your friggin' life together, and be a man!
(Sorry to dump on your significant other, but the whiners REALLY get my dander up)
My W borrowed $500 for me, then when it was time to pay it back, she didn't have the money, but buys pizza for OM and his kids, drives to his home that's 1.5 hours away (in a gas-guzzler) and so on - well, I'm sorry if you have to suck it up and eat macaroni-and-cheese for a couple of weeks, welcome to real life, honey!
Now, I'm being a bit vitriolic, and I understand that this is not the way to approach the conversation.
I think you handled it perfectly. You were appropriately supportive, you didn't take the "oh-poor-me" bait, and you didn't degenerate into R talk. I think you couldn't have done anything better.
^ Amen!
I think you did a great job too Silver. You were calm, pleasant and validated.
Jon is right, he wants you to be a guest at his pity party. You can, and did, politely decline.
It's all about actions or lack thereof.
I refused to see xBF until he told me he was done with OW. And that turned out to be not true so I refused to see him again until he quit his bowling team. Actions.
WTF is up with the new people in MLC giving out crappy advice?
Jon...if this guy was a normal person, yes I'd agree with you, he'd be a piece of crap...
he is however, by Fox being here, in her opinion in MLC...are you familiar with it? It's not a normal person she is dealing with now.
Resources at the top of the board, good place to start to get a feel of how crappy these people are.
Let me amend...not crappy advice.
I think you handled it perfectly. You were appropriately supportive, you didn't take the "oh-poor-me" bait, and you didn't degenerate into R talk. I think you couldn't have done anything better.
That was great.
The gist of it before that...about regret and contrition and be a man...that doesn't help it doesn't apply, and after time slowly works away at the resolve of the LBS to be married.
Silver Fox,
While I was sitting on your virtual porch with my virtual shotgun I was wondering about whether "keeping on, keeping on" after age 52 1/2 is a good strategy. I am 60 now. I started when you did.
I have STOOD, and I am still married but not too happily.
One of the undercurrents that is not considered too often on this site, are finances. To be discarded when you are shuffling along in what you have imagined was a nice life, is disconcerting enough. To have to regroup and reinvent while you are foaming at the mouth with jealousy is difficult.
Fox, I do want to trade lives. I would blast your academic and sorta sweet husband. You would confront my wayward genius and frighten him. He would be so startled to see you in your nice leather pants.
I have no real suggestions. Well, I do. Keep the house.
Keep the porchlight on.
://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2009/04/23/local_news/doc49ee5ab287abe821299061.txt
This is upsetting.
Ha! Flicka, how 'bout if I just get stoned instead.
This didn't link:
://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2009/04/23/local_news/doc49ee5ab287abe821299061.txt
What is it?
I was tring to connect with Jack. I think he lives and loves in Anchorage...
My son and my dearest. girls live in Wasilla.
My grandaughters live in Alaska. There was an incident lately. A yearling moose got caught in the school yard. Kids chased and screamed at it. It died on the fence.
It was exhausted by winter... me too.
I see. I just read it - yes, upsetting.
Jack - Pearl and Jon followed me over here from Newcomers. I'm glad they continue to stay in touch. Pretty sure Jon's W is in MLC also and we have both read the MLC articles.
I read and consider and ponder everyone's posts to me. I'm wondering what you think of Ali's advice? She offered up something different compared to what I've been doing lately.
I feel like I'm on a race against time now. H is looking for work in OW's town 200 miles away - he may get a position as soon as next September. He's pushing for the D NOW. That's one of the reasons he broke down last night. He knows he messed up and he's trying to fix it all quickly so he can get his "fresh start".
1. We stayed in contact when he dropped the first bomb. I was emotional but tried to stay friendly - nothing changed
2. Second bomb - my first instinct was to tell him "I will not share you or compete for you. Leave me alone now".
3. I backed off that stance as I began to read about MLC and affairs and found DB. I offered friendship again and we stayed in contact - nothing changed
4. The A continued, he continued to put more energy into it, spending money like crazy. I started feeling like a doormat.
5. He filed, I countered - nothing changed
6. I started NC last fall and complete dark since Jan. - nothing changed (except that I became much stronger and more in control of my emotions)
Now I'm open to contact with him again but as I said, he's trying to wheel and deal a D while I'm hanging on by a thread trying to stall, stall, stall, hoping he'll hit bottom soon (last night was a start I think) or the Catbitch will do herself in or both. Damn.
You would think that the kids in Alaska would have more respect for the wildlife there.
No, they are struggling against their bad families. That school is one of the best.
I feel like throwing rocks every day.
Silver,
Here's what it boils down to for me.
I love my wife more than anything. I would walk away from everyone of my material possessions for her, and never look back, and never regret it - if it would make my family whole, and make my 6 and 8 year old smile again.
I have told Pearl, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart that I would crawl through broken glass for her.
But, here's the thing. I believe in one marriage. I gave my wife my vows, and I will stand by them until I die as I promised her and God. I'm not looking for a quick out so I can go pick up some other honey.
But when she started an affair, she treated me to the most utter disrespect possible, not to mention my children. She chose to lose 50% of her time with them, and then chose to spend even more time with some random man. She chose not to go to marriage counseling, chose not to make any efforts.
I filed for the dissolution, and I despise divorce.
I say all that to say this. My wife needs to be a woman. She needs to suck it up, and be a mom, and a wife, and a woman, and do right by her husband and her children, because we deserve better. I have read your aching posts on here, and seen your hurt.
And, when I hear you hanging on, desperately hoping for H to hit bottom or for Catlady to fizzle out - do you hear yourself? You are hoping for the scuzzy leftovers, and that when all else falls apart for H, he'll come back and pick you over the crap in his life. Are you OK with that?
Are you OK with being his last resort when everything else in his life sucks? I'm not!
Again, I will not date/remarry/etc - I am 31, and will be single for the next 60-odd years, and it was a choice I made when I said my vows to W. But the moral example I will be to my children, the dignity that I hold for myself, and the respect and treatment that I require from others makes me who I am.
Also, I repeat, I would literally walk out my front door, get in the car with W and the kids, and never give a second thought if I knew for sure it would bring my family back.
BUT, I am worth so much more than the person W turns to when the rest of her life has turned to crap.
I'm not saying to run off to divorce - that's a choice that only you can make, and you need to be OK with it, and what we think doesn't matter. I wasn't OK filing dissolution for a long long time, but I am now. But your H needs to come to YOU. He needs to clearly and unequivocally admit his mistakes and his wrongs, and get help for them, and be prepared to do whatever it takes to make it right, and you need to expect that.
You can and should forgive him in sincerity if he is legitimate, but I stand by my earlier statements.
Silver Fox, please excuse me for referencing that moose abuse incident... Sorry.
Hey Silver...
Someone posted to me early on which REALLY helped and I was trying to pass that on to you.. but perhaps I can add some more.
Someone said to me, that men in MLC, taht have A's are not the usual WAS, or just had an A and left.. theres something else going on. And what they need from us, as the LBS is.. consistency and reassurance. Be their FRIEND.. no matter what, no reproachment, no anger, no resentment.. also as they need these things, it is counterproductive to NOT pursue or initiate contact for long periods of time. You should ALWAYS accept contact with them (be their loving, consistent forgiving friend) and if you dont hear from them for long stretches, then make a friendly, no expectations contact, to check in with them. She (Appleroad I think it was) explained this to me, like the MLCer is a special case and needs a bit more gentle handling.
I saw you not doing that.. yes, the LRT is good for you and gave you strength and equilibrium.. but how has that helped you reconcile with your H ? I can see why there was a need for it at one point, as after the bomb and the pleading etc, you had little choice but to pull back.
And I am sorry he is now pushing for D.. but it may be because he sees no other way out, and your sort of coldness and disapproval (forgive me) toward him is palpable.. in his crisis and emotional state, he proabbly just cant handle it and it makes him want to run faster and harder away. Can you see that?
I know you have struggled with being his friend whilst ow is in tow.. but I dont know of any sitches really (apart from puppydog) where the LBS has been able to refuse to see the WAS until OW is off the scene and THAT makes the WAS then miss them, finish with ow and come back.
The WAS has to be able to compare you, as the loving, patient, calm, non-pressurising W, with the often chaotic, bad choice of OW. How is he supposed to see you as the greener grass if he doesnt get to see you? How are you supposed to put doubt in his mind and make him question his R with the OW (please stop calling her catbitch by the way!! its not good to blame her, this is YOUR H's doing, not hers)...if you dont show him what he is missing? Lastly.. the biggest tenement of DB is.. be the greener grass, become again.. the woman he first fell in love with.
Are you doing that? What 180s have you done? What interesting and inticing things do you chat to him about about your life when you see him? Do you chat to him at all? Jody my DB coach said, whatever you do, DO NOT present to him a picture of a devastated human being.. that they have ruined your life.. yuo dont have to move on, but act as if you are moving forwards and having fun and show them what they missed, or loved about you in the early days.
if you have followed my sitch for some time, you will see that I have maintained a friendship with my ex, EVENTHOUGH he has been seeing ow for 7 months (dont know if he still is, as he never mentions her and nor do I).. and taken every opportunity he has offered me to see him and make a good impression.. and its working. He told his friends - I am again, the girl he fell in love with (back in 1996). I have had to be the bigger person, absolutely.. and in terms of the poster above.. forget self esteem etc.. this is a DB website.. we ARE putting up with the crap because we value our spouses and have decided we want them back. So thats a given. What we are here to do is help each other with that aim.. so I say, swallow your pride, as I have had to continually.. ignore OW, stop calling her names, focus on you and being the greener grass.
You need to take those opportunities to DB.. when he comes to mow the grass, maybe be in, looking hot, chat to him a bit then say you have to be somewhere.. how about leave him a note and a favourite snack of his on the table to say thanks for doing the grass, if you cant be in? How about buy him something for the fishtank and leave it there with a note, next time he comes to clean it? Oh and Jody told me that when they do want to meet to discuss thinks, DONT do that at the house.. the house is what she calls "the scene of the crime" and makes the WAS remember all the bad things that they are running from (you and the guilt of all that etc).. meet away from teh house, somewhere with a good, upbeat energy. Have a drink, smile, show interest in them etc, then be the frist to leave.
I dont know if its too late, but.. if you start now, why not? What have you got to lose Silver? You are heading for D anyway right now. Good luck...
Al x
I hope that the image haunts those children for a long time, and that it shapes them to become better people. Let something good come from something horrible.
What Jon said is accurate, many of those things need to happen, do not take him back because he ran out of options, do not take him back without boundaries...but please please understand...in MLC this more than likely will not happen for a long time. If it even happens at all.
In MLC you stack the deck in your favor to stand as long as you can. You protect yourself from going crazy, you basically store up time and patience to weather the spouse's MLC as long as you can.
Ali is hitting the nail on the head about alot of things in my opinion about your sitch.
Jon, Flicka, I would like to sincerely apologies for my words yesterday. Friends are great to have in this.
MLC is a little bit different in the mentality to make it, we almost have to become masocistic to make it, as seen from those otuside of it. But the trick is to remember this is our choice, ours, no one elses, and in that choice, is our control.
Thank you everyone for posting. Good grief, have I done it all wrong and now it's too late? Or maybe I got over here to MLC just in time?
I'm taking a 2 hour road trip tomorrow so lots of time to think about it all. Too tired and overwhelmed to write tonight.
Silver.. I knew you would think that! Please dont.. we all do 'all the wrong things' when we get hit with the bomb and then, after, you were only trying to protect yourself. And also, you cant control what happens. I sometimes wonder if the nuances of teh communications I have had with my ex have made any difference at all over the past 18 mohths.. he probably would have got to where he is at now in any case. So, dont beat yourself up !!! But yes, maybe change tack now and try that.
Som along the same lines I was trying to explain, here is an excellent post from butterflyMom.. she won her H back and just posted in teh MLC forum. Its just luck, which come back, no way of knowing! But I love her explanation here about showing them compassion, kindness and continued contact and also the analogy about the rocks in the river, it exactly sums up what I was trying to say to you...
"I don’t know about waiting out the “beginning of the MLCer acting out” (if I gathered you right on that one, Jack). I didn’t wait. MLCer’s are hurting too. That is WHY they are acting out. Think about your spouse and how he was before and how much in love you guys were and how you never thought he’d do anything to hurt you (I’ve not read your posts, but that pretty much seems to be the norm around here). Why is he acting this way now? Did he just get mean all of a sudden? Most likely not. Most likely there was something going on in your marriage that he got tired of dealing with. This may have been something that you didn’t really think was all that bad. Something that you may not have even been aware was important to him, but it was important and now he’s come to the end of his rope. He has found someone that is meeting that need (maybe – I don’t know if your spouse is having an affair or not)and has decided to finally be happy. He was most likely hurting over something for many many years and now that he’s made the break he’s got to prove to himself and to everyone else that there is no turning back – so he acts out. He’s hurting – so someone else needs to hurt too – so he acts out. If you can look at your spouse as someone who has been hurt deeply and is now acting out on that hurt it is easier to be nice to them. Easier to not take their actions so personally. Easier to realize that it may take some time to undo the years and years of build-up to this situation. I got shot down, ignored, he was mean to me, etc and that is where the whole idea of “detachment” comes into play. Detachment isn’t about detaching yourself physically or ending contact with your wayward spouse, it is about protecting your emotions so that their antics don’t keep bringing you down. It gets hard to keep acting “as if” (to use a DB term) when your spouse is not receptive to any of your niceness, but as I read somewhere earlier it’s like rocks in a river. You are standing on the edge of a river that you need to cross so you begin throwing rocks into the river one at a time to make a bridge. At first the rocks just sink to the bottom and you don’t appear to be making any progress, but you just keep throwing rocks. Eventually a rock with hit and a small piece will stick out of the surface of the water. You keep throwing until many rocks are sticking out and you can walk across the river. The rocks represent little kindnesses that we do for our spouses. At first, they don’t appear to really be making a difference, but just know that somewhere under the surface they are slowly building and it will be a while before you can see any progress. Some of us have bigger and deeper “rivers” to cross than others and chances are if you are dealing with the Mississippi River or something equally as large you might get tired and give up before you see any progress. ;. Most likely it is going to take much longer than it ever does in Hollywood!
Sometimes your nice acts DON’T lead to a reconciliation. Sometimes they may only lead to a better relationship with your spouse in the future"
...so how about next time he comes over to mow the grass, leave him a brief thankyou note and his favourite snack, or something??
I have done things for my ex, little things that are linked to my 180's.. like I posted him some recordings of new music I knew he would like. Because when we first met and were friends, music was veyr important to us, but I got lazy and complacent down the years and even complained at times if he wanted the stereo on. So.. 180's. What would be a 180 for you, to get his attention? And you are lucky Silver in that yuo do still have opportunities to do that, as he wants to speak to you and he still comes by the house regularly.
Hi Sweets ! Thanks for checking on me. Sorry to hear that he's pushing for a new fresh start. Ugh !
Hugs to you.
How was your drive ?
Hello all,
Thank you Ali for taking the time and effort to post. I really am taking your advice to heart and I also read butterflymom's thread the other night.
Smartcookie! I'll catch up with you too.
So, got a text from H today - "I'm going to try and cut the tree this afternoon. Do you want me to get something to eat?"
I replied - sure. When I arrived he was cooking dinner. For a brief moment it was like old times - H in kitchen, me taking care of the dogs, checking the mail, watching the news. It didn't last long as he told me he had written out a proposal and would email it to me. I was pleasant and non-emotional (I'm SO proud of this - it took me a long time to get my emotions in check). He asked if I'd had any more thoughts about what I wanted and I had to remind him that my students are performing next week. He knows that takes all my time and energy, so he didn't push it and said it could wait til after that (gee, thanks).
He's busy with end of semester work too so he left right after eating. He did manage to add "Well, we need to decide something soon as I have limited time". Translation - he wants the D as soon as possible, at the latest by August so he can move. Some of you remember that his current job is ending and he's only looking for work in OW's town 200 miles away.
He wished me good luck on my show. This still stings alot because for the past 14 years he has always helped with it and taken lots of photographs. I miss this terribly. But I thanked him and thanked him for dinner and he went on his merry way back to OW's for the weekend and said "See you next Wednesday!" Um, ok.
God, what a jerk. There are so many...
Dear S.F.
I am sorry to have taken a hike. I was just was so embarrassed about the yearling moose trouble... Chardonnay MADE me yip about it.
Let us meet up on your porch some Dewey Tuesday morning to discuss these troubles. I will confide that I am in serious distress and you will hand me a paint brush. When miserable wash dishes or paint. You would also hand me a book you liked. Thanks. I will have a couple with me.
I wish I could know you. I would give you my NewYorker mags. Nobody I know,here, wants them.
Hey Silver...
This is great! Well done.. I am GOBSMACKED though... even after all the contact I have had wuth my ex, last year.. there is NO WAY I would have seen him in the kitchen cooking for us?? Thats so wierd.. he's hardly been in your space since he left you, really odd of him !
So I am curious, how did you handle it? Did you chat to him? Smile alot? Act 'as-if' ? Make jokes? Drop a few hints about your new great exciting life? (Ok, we have to fake it a bit, but whats the harm !!??) Or did you stay out of his way (wathed the news, or was that him??).
Keep on extending that hand of friendship silver. You are still in stage 1 I would say.. Jody says that stage 1 is all about reducing feelings of guilt and shame in teh WAS.. so letting him feel comfortable to see you/talk to him, without him feeling like you are gonna lay some big shame/guilt trip on him.
Dont forget though, that also, she advises meetign AWAY from the house if you can.. so if he wants to meet you to dicuss these propisals.. try and meet somewhere (a bar? for dinner? or lunch? Where would be a 180 venue for you? what would be refreshing and surprising to him??). Just a suggestion.
I meant Doo-eee, not dewey. Like a damp Tuesday mornings when nobody is awake...
We are looKing toward summer. You have a teacher schedule, right?
Ali (if I may hijack just a sec :)...), do you suggest some contact in my situation. Say after several months or so. OR do I let me still come to me. They say they are getting married.
Would you give the same advice to someoen that is already divorced?
Hi Sunshine...
I'm not aware of your sitch, but I noticed when you posted before that your signature shows your H moved very quickly to D you and thats pretty shocking. Have you got a DB Coach? Its expensive and I am a penniless student, but I still bought two lots of sessions, 3 last year after he first started contacting me again and 3 more when I heard about the OW. I couldnt afford it, but it was the best $700 I ever spent, she was very helpful. So I would advise doing that ! You too silver.
Other than that, I say to you what I say to Silver.. they have to be able to see you in order to compare(if they will see you) and also.. at this stage, after D, what have you got to lose?? Jody the DB coach said that people get stuck in the LRT, dark, cos it makes them feel like they have some control, but at some point you have got to reach out a little (non-persueing/pressuring).
Ali I dont know how I am gonna do that because my xh doesnt want to talk to me. I know if I tried to call him he wouldnt answer. He started doing this after ow moved in. Now they are engaged. She probably doesnt like him talking to me either.
What should I do? Snodderly and Jack along with others says NOT to contact him in any way unless in an emergency.
What you say does make sense. I have asked that same question, how in the world is he gonna notice a change in me if he dont ever see me?
So what do you suggest?
If he has expressed he doesnt want to talk to you, then I would say you should respect that. I wouldnt advise calling him either. Even after all teh contact me and my ex have enjoyed, I ONLY started phoning him last May, after he had GIVEN me his number and asked me to call him sometime. Again after all our recent contact, I still havent phoned him, I let him call me. Alot of communication has been by email whilst he was with ow.
I agree with Jack and Snodderly.. leave him be and dont contact him unless its urgent. Let him feel the full weight of his decision (I did the same, only contacted him in REPLY if he contacted me). What I meant above about htem having to see you is if they WANT to see you.. the same for Silver... I have been suggesting to her that she accepts contact and olive branches from her H, NOT make calls to him herself or initiate contact.
Well, the most stressful (and most rewarding) part of my job is over for the semester - an hour long evening dance concert involving 100 middle school students
Now this beautiful, sunny weekend as everyone else is out GALing I'm sleeping, resting, eating, recovering AND refocusing on my personal life to figure out what the F to do with my crazy MLC H and his D quest.
Here is his "offer", typos and all, sent via email over a week ago:
I want to again thank you for being willing to consider a mutually agreeable resolution of our issues. As you asked, I am going to start by propsing a broad framework for you and your attorney to consider and then we can get into further detail as our negotiations unfold.
First, I think my attorney and I have already offered to take all of the joint debt acquired during our marriage. By doing so, I will likely be unable to avoid bankruptcy. If I do find a way to manage the debt load it is going every bit of whatever income I am able to earn. In either case, I can't imagine I will have the resources for long term alimony-especially at the levels you asked for in the mediation hearing. However, if you do choose to stay in the house for a year before selling, I might be able to help with a lower amount of temporary alimony to compensate you for the extra cost of the commute, pet care, et c. But given my enormous debt, I don't know how much I could afford.
In terms of the house, as you asked, I would propose two options.
Option One: I take the house. I either let it roll it into a bankruptcy/foreclosure or somehow find a way to make the payments, fix it, and sell it myself. Since the house is basically under water at this point, I think taking on this additional debt would make further alimony unwarranted.
Option Two. You take the house-with conditions. You prepare a list of all repairs you wish made before taking possession and I use my own sweat equity to "pay" for those repairs. Given my debt load, I don't think I could help with those repairs that need to be professionally done, but that should be able to be included in a refinancing of the house. Under this scenario, as I said, I would hopefully have enough=2 0income to offer temporary alimony to compensate you for the extra costs of having to stay in the house. I would propose one year at affordable level.
That should be enough to get the conversation moving again. As far as I'm concerned, everything is on the table. All I want is to do is what's right by you while still having a chance to slowly rebuilding my financial life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that my head is clear of 100 dancing 13 year olds I've got plenty of room to come up with my own "options". And did I mention that he wants everything to be resolved by August so he can move to Catbitch's (sorry Ali!) city? This includes D first, declaring bankruptcy second. Yes, he has it all figured out.
Last week I had to email him because the aquarium lights went completely out - first time I've initated contact since September. He wrote back that he would come over, let the dogs out, fix the lights and cook dinner so I would have something when I got home (this was the day of my concert and he knows I get home late). And he also wrote "good luck with the show, I know it will be awesome". Well ok, thanks buddy. Now is this guilt or just trying to stay on my good side?
Well, H is pushing now. Here's his email sent today:
I haven't heard from you about meeting this week. As it turns out, my Friday interview got moved to Monday so I couldn't have done it tomorrow anyway. My meeting with the bankruptcy attorney is finally going to happen Wednesday. Unless you object, I would like to come over Wednesday afternoon after it is done. I need to know what offer--if any--you want me to have for my attorney to see if we can resolve this. I am meeting with my attorney Thursday to either put that offer together or figure out how to proceed without one.
Thanks again for the cooperation you have shown over the last few weeks.
"Proceed" without an offer? How does that work exactly?
Anyway, here's my reply:
Thank you for the quiche. We went out after the show but it was nice to have it over the weekend.
I will be very interested in hearing what the bankruptcy lawyer says so Wednesday is fine. Please make sure he knows that 3 of our credit cards (and your truck) are in my name and if I choose to let you take on all the debt - how will I get my name removed so my credit is not affected? Please take lots of notes so I may share the info with my lawyer.
You might want to hold off on that meeting with your attorney. I had the house appraised last week but I won't have anything in writing until next week. Also, I'm still considering your offers and as this decision is going to affect me for the rest of my life I will not be pressured or rushed. I have my own terms that I am finalizing and I need to meet with my lawyer as well.
If you're in town, I will be staying at school late on Tuesday. I'm sure the dogs would appreciate you letting them out and feeding them.
See you Wednesday.
So I guess it's all business now. Bring it on. He's made up his mind, he's not coming back. The OW is his True Love (after I was for 24 years of course). And even though he knows very little about the D process he's determined to plow ahead.
It's been 2 years. I've DB'd for myself and for H, I've been patient, I've been friendly, I've gone completely dark, I've waited for the A to burn itself out. Now I realize the one thing I haven't done is to completely LET GO. The biggest 180 I can do or that I even have left now is to agree to this D.
Ok, well let me digest this. Here is H's response:
That's great news about the appraisal! It needed to be done no matter what happens next. If you are working toward your "own terms" then I can be patient until that process is done. I'll pay close attention at the meeting. See you Wednesday.
Does this sound like a man who thinks he's getting his way now?
Hi Silver
I've stayed away after being yelled at here so I will not offer any comments other than I am thinking of you.
If you want to chat here or in the alt drop me a line on my thread in Piecing.
yelled at? Really? Surely you are made of tougher stuff than that?
Silver, It sounds like a man who isn't jumping to conclusions.
"Really, that's interesting.
I will take it into consideration.
Ok, hmmm.
That's something to think about.
Really?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Possibly, but I need to see what my L thinks first.
I will need time to think about all this.
Have a nice weekend!"
*Just practicing for tomorrow's meeting with H after he talks with a bankruptcy L.
First thing out of his mouth - "This isn't going to be as easy as I thought". I almost had to stifle a laugh. Really H? I'm shocked - everyone else has such an easy life - I can't believe you have it so hard. No, I didn't say this out loud.
I was able to use most of my responses from my previous post. He said the bankruptcy L explained that even if he took all the marital debt, we couldn't get my name off the credit cards. H was so counting on declaring. It was going to be his "easy" way out. I guess he thought you could just sign on the dotted line and that would be it - all debt and all troubles would go away.
He said it was a good thing that I've saved enough money to get us through the summer. Us?! I had to tell him that the savings was for bills/living expenses and he could not use our marital assets any longer for his trips to OW. He said "Oh, I see" (like, oh, you're going to play dirty now are you).
It was really difficult to watch. He really is hitting rock bottom now. He cried some, cut the grass, and when he came back in he had a brilliant plan to withdraw money from his retirement fund because "How can I get a job and work on the house at the same time? Where will I live?" (how will I be able to keep my OW?)
He asked about the house appraisal - why didn't I tell him about the appointment? I could have at least let him cut the grass. I said "Let? I'm here, the house is here, the grass is always growing". He lost it saying "I can do without your snide remarks!!" Wow, and I was doing so well up to that point.
When I said in as calm a voice as possible "I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time, please try to relax". I swear to God he said again "It's just not so EASY!"
Text from H today: "I'm dropping off a form you have to sign so I can withdraw retirement."
I emailed L right away - Can he do this? Do I have to sign it?
Yes and no.
I'll fax the form to L tomorrow. H wants to take out $7,000. IF I choose to sign, it's to waive my rights to that amount if something happens to him since I'm still the beneficiary.
He's desperate for money now. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Gee, no posts from anyone for quite awhile. I guess I'll keep journaling then.
Sent my L the form H wants me to sign. L wants me to hold off til we have another mediation, tentatively set for June 10. Problem is neither H nor I got much out of mediation the first time - we were in separate rooms, it was very tense for both of us, H didn't care for the mediator. Perhaps I could offer H time to talk things out together, just the two of us, in place of mediation. This would be a huge 180 for me. I've avoided D and money talk like the plague for 2 years now.
I wonder if H knows that if we don't request a hearing by June 13 (the one year filing date) then the case is dismissed and someone has to file all over again?
Originally, weren't you inclined to inhibit the divorce process? Are you now thinking differently? I want you to save your house and feed your H to the cats, but in a kind way.
Could you not negotiate for mediation, but face to face? Use your good humor and history to your advantage. Negotiate for as much as you can... Settle for the wreck of a house but be glad about that.
I am reading along and wishing you the best. Your H makes me laugh. He is stereotypical and hilarious.
My own is as well, except that HE is turning into a cat lady. yikes. I was recently invited to talk on the phone with his rescued cat. It is good that he has a tender heart {and kittens under his bed} but I blanched and reconsidered my 'love' while talked sweet cat talk on the phone. I did that. Now I am reconsidering my commitment to this relationship. I do have some self respect, after all. Not a lot, but a little. yeow. Oh. I meant meow.
Hi Flicka,
Thank you! H is stereotypical - hilarious? Well, if I didn't laugh I'd cry and I've cried plenty.
Yes indeed, I was very inclined to inhibit the D. I mean, I'm here aren't I? But I may very well have reached the 'enough is enough' stage. H is out of a job, has moved in with OW, is out of money and is coming apart at the seams. What can I do about it? Nada.
I'm sure he yelled out loud when he discovered that I had to sign the form for him to take $ out of his retirement. He thought he was going to get an easy 7 grand with the snap of his fingers.
Now even more bad news. The house appraisal came yesterday and it's worth less than we owe.
We were counting on at least $30,000 in equity - but no, thanks to the economy, lack of updates, some foundation problems, and the sad country neighborhood we (I) live in.
Now do I really want to keep the house? I'm thinking NO WAY. I believe I'll ask for his retirement, all of it. That will give me plenty for a down payment on a new home closer to work, pay for moving expenses, help pay our joint credit, and make up for lost income.
H can have the house and declare bankruptcy like he's been threatening to do. Then he can go live happily ever after with the Catbitch. Meow
We are all giggling through our tears.
As usual, I applaud you for your stalwart plans to rescue yourself. I think your plan is very good and if you have started getting a fix on real estate choices that seem interesting and creative for you, then you are a jump ahead.
You do need to research what could be affordable where you would like to live. You do need to consider what would be affordable but also a good investment. Real estate is the best savings acct. and I would be sad if you ditched your problematic homestead for nothing much. That wreck will probably weather the financial storm even if it is not 'improved'. You and your CAT MAN chose it for a reason. Charm survives. Land is best.
I am your guardian real estate angel with no credentials. I have never guessed wrong about what is valuable house-wise, though....
Sincerely,
Friend Flicka
Talk to a local realtor about all of this. Try to find one that is not greedy. Or exploit his/her greed for good info. And then be careful.
Yes Flicka, there's a very vibrant downtown community I'd like to be a part of. I'll miss the whippoorwill's call at night though.
Thanks so much for your wit and support. I'll post later tonight.
Hi Silver Fox,
Thank you for posting to me!! Stay strong in this! If you want the retirement go after if for sure. I went after the house & got it. Don't forget to go after alimony. No matter how much we want them to come back to us, we have to take care of ourselves.
(((HUGS)))
Thanks NLT,
It took me awhile but I will indeed take care of myself. I've got to muster up some major strength now. H is panicked about money and is pushing for me to sign his retirement withdrawal form to take out $7,000 for the summer until he finds work. He's upset because I told him that the little bit of money I managed to save was not to be used for his "other" life.
I must admit that Friday, when I found out about the low appraisal, I was pretty down and I sent him a curt email:
"Appraisal - $xxx,xxx.
Have a great Memorial Day weekend.
I'm sure you have big plans."
(I know I deserve a 2x4 for this)
Here's his reply today:
I'm sorry to hear about the appraisal and for being slow to get back to you. My "big plans" amounted to taking care of a cancer stricken cat who had her second eye removed last week while (OW's name) worked and babysitting for a 10 year old boy six hours a day for the last three days.
I'm coming to town tomorrow to take care of a few things. I need to get that form from you. No matter what else happens, we need to generate enough income to survive the next three months and this is the only way I can see to do it. As far as the house goes, I have to believe that appraisal reflects the worst possible conditions that existed at the time. That can be fixed to some if not to a large extent. If the house really is that much "underwater" then it is likely eligible for the Obama money since we have not missed any payments. But that assumes you want to refinance it and wait a little while for the market to change. I again renew my offer to dedicate time over the next two months to make what repairs to the house I can in preparation for you taking ownership or putting it on the market. But I can't wait any longer to make that decision. If I am not going to use that time on the house then I have to get what job I can--and sooner rather than later. I would like to try and meet with you one more time tomorrow night if you think we can really put our heads together and make the best we can out of bad situation. If we don't go into that meeting on the 10th with some plan we can agree to already in hand it will be a repeat of last time. As bad as I feel about how little progress we have been able to make toward resolving our issues I am determined to find a way out of this. I'm again asking for your help.
Of course he had to defend himself and make sure I knew his "big plans" involved cat sitting and baby sitting. I don't have any idea who the 10 year old boy is he's referring to but he wants to make sure I know he was not living it up with the girlfriend over the weekend
There's plenty of money right now for bills and living expenses. I don't need the 7 grand HE does. And I'm really angry at how he says "I need to get that form from you. No matter what else happens, we need to generate enough income to survive the next three months and this is the only way I can see to do it."
I'm not really sure at this point how to answer his email. Suggestions anyone??
Sorry I haven't been posting, wanted to stop by and say hi.
See things are progressing? Can't really say much about the finances other than to be sure what you need and what is fair between you and your H. Most people aren't concerned with fair and its up to you and how you do things in life to decide here. It seems that everything is a compromise.
Retirement is a big thing that often gets overlooked as important and misunderstood as being undervalued in the present. ARe there other options for H or do you really care? If you feel that it is his problem to pay bills then put it back on him.
How are you doing otherwise? How is this affecting you? I know from reading some of your posts that you work hard. Does it help?
What about this for my reply?
Sorry, tomorrow is not good - faculty end-of-year gathering after school. My lawyer has instructed me not to sign anything until we agree on terms. However I do agree that we should have the terms completed before June 10 and if we don't, we should postpone mediation. In the meantime, there's just enough money for the bills until the end of July.
You know that these last 2 weeks of school are stressful and long. My last day is June 4. Would you like to meet June 5 or that weekend?
Hi Kassie! Thanks for stopping by. I'm pretty much done with this sitch. They say you'll know when and I felt it a few weeks ago. I'm still stalling a bit - haven't played my hand completely on the terms because H doesn't know I'm going to ask for his retirement. That's why my L doesn't want me to sign away $7,000 yet.
Hi Silver Fox,
I think your reply sounds good but in my case my lawyer said not to agree to anything with your H until you talk to your lawyer. My H got pretty hateful with me, one reason he knew that I had found out about OW, he tried to hide all of that, it sounds like your H is not hiding. Something I did one night when my H cussed me out, I had a tape recorder under my shirt, he didn't know that I got him cussing me out. The next day I called my L & he called my H's L & 3 days later he came & apolozied for it but it was too late, I had already given my L the recording.
I know that is something that cannot be used in court but if it had gone to court the judge would not have liked that at all, knowing how upset my H got with me & then him finding out that I had him, he finally agreed to my terms in medation. Not willingly, I know his L was on my side also & the mediator was on my side too. They all knew he had done me wrong. It took 9 hours of mediation, that day alone cost over 9000.00, my H had to pay for it too.
Just be very careful as to what you say when you meet with your H, I know that is the hardest thing b/c my H & I were so close that for me not to say something or tell him something was unheard of. But he is not the person you M right now. I knew 6 weeks about OW before my H knew I knew. I kept it from him & he was in the same house with me, that was hard when he was telling me what all I had done, none of which made any sense & also when I asked him about OW he said "there is no one & I'm tired of you accussing me". I didn't say a word. So, you have to choose your words wisely when you speak with him & do not sign anything without your lawyers approval!
I'm so sorry you are having to go thru this!!
I'm thinking about you!!!
(((HUGS)))
By the way, we didn't have terms agreed to before our mediation.
I think your response is good. I was thinking about your question today and recalled that many people forget that there are many consequences to pulling retirement money out early tax wise that would be important to consider.
Sorry that it is ending this way. I kind of thought that was the case but everyone has their own timing. As many times as I felt like quitting on my M, it wasn't time yet and now things have finally turned a corner.
Let us know what you need for support.
What kind of hippie are you? You prefer the sound of clinking ice and great muzak to disgruntled and lovelorn whippoorwills? I like them both. Keep your plan.
I think your H is outgunned by you. I am very pleased. I will take lessons from you. I already am. Go quiet for months and then shoot first? Oh. and straight. I am dead accurate, too.
My feral catman is furious. Unfortunatly, I am as well.
Thanks for listening... WCW does as well.
NLT, Kassie,
Thank you for your support. You both bring up some good points. I sent my response last night and here is his reply:
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this email. I really need to focus on doing a good job on this communication training so I am happy to wait until next week. Thanks for understanding.
Odd. Not what I expected but you know what they say about expectations. Seems I DB'd him without even realizing it. He's "appreciative" and thanks me for "understanding?" I thought I was sending a stern response of no, we can't meet tonight, no, I'm not giving you that form. Where in my email was I showing any kind of understanding??
The communication training he refers to is a three hour session he's teaching about communication in the workplace. He feels it will be a foot in the door for other similar positions. Too bad it's in OW's town 200 miles away where he pretty much lives now.
That's one of the reasons I can't fight this any longer. He's "in love" with another woman and her city as well.
Hey Flicka,
Well, I'd stay here if it weren't for the 35 minute one way commute and all. That's getting tiresome. Tiresome and lonely. And I'm a loner, but this this is too much.
H gardened himself silly when we moved here 9 years ago. He had a vegetable garden, a sunflower garden, a pumpkin patch, and an herb garden. Then he just turned it off - like a light switch. Did I mention he has ADHD?
What about your H? What's his deal?
Silver Fox,
I'm glad your H responded so nicely but beware! I don't know if he is like my ex or not but my ex would be really nice to me when he wanted something. Then when I wouldn't give in to what he wanted in the D, he would get mad. So, I just wanted you to go to that meeting with an open mind & be prepared, mine was good at sweet talking but I knew him so I knew what he was up to.
Good luck!
(((HUGS))))
Hi, SF,
I have no wisdom to impart about legal stuff (no experience to back it up), but just wanted to stop by and tell you hello and say that I'm reading along. I guess my only suggestion is to keep your mental armor on, because these MLCers can really blow hot and cold sometimes, and they're really confused so you really can't predict or interpret very well. In DR, MWD says to pay no attention to what your MLCer says, and only half of what he does (or is that the other way around?), but basically I think you have to take everything they say and do with a whole barrel of salt, and just assume they're blowing smoke unless you see them back it up with long-term consistent behavior.
Take care of yourself.
Peace,
Dawn
Oh Friend Fox, I never figured him out.. He is British and from the 60's, like me. He is a serial adulterer, but occasionally got married. I was number three. I laugh at him and wait him out. His family loves me and I love them. Still.
He runs amok, and I used to get frantic. We lost a house and a lot of money. That caused a serious glitch. For me and for him. I mind being homeless. Now I just wait him out. Back he comes, like a yo-yo. Let's walk the doggie... Around the world! Clunk!
Money is what matters to my guy. I am living in a holding pattern with other family problems. I wake up earlier and earlier to read from my tower of self help "novels". Pema Chodron is most helpful. I am a wayward Lutheran who became Buddhist. Or the perfect db-er. Let go of attachments, is the refrain. It works.
I have been to marital hell and back this week. I dared to challenge my H's distance and disinterest and he fried me with a plan for divorce. He recanted. We are already divorced, really. He lives outwest but sends money to prop me up. I work and afford him insurance so he can be self employed. He almost is. He is identured to some icky dairy co-op.
This is birthday week for both him and me. He is abandoning his little boring cat family to come 'home' for dentistry. He is going to be here two whole days. He returns just often enough to keep me off balance. I do still want him to come home. I am not in the mood to start over. Unless I can move to Minneapolis and then live in the eclectic Uptown district where Prince lives and sometimes prances. H and I used to live up there and hang out.So fun.
I still admire how you shut down when your H launched. I think you saved yourself...
Thanks for your support NLT,
My H has been fairly "nice" this whole 2 years. In fact, exactly one year ago he wined and dined me (I foolishly thought my DBing was working) and then on the way home told me he was going to file the next week - say what?
But I do think perhaps my new found strength will throw him - and I'm prepared for anger when I tell him what I expect out of this D.
Dawn - You wouldn't believe how much smoke my H has blown
And his long-term consistent behavior? Well, 2 years of total enmeshment in OW's life - nursing her through surgery, taking care of her 12 cats, spending time with her family (including Christmas), putting $20,000 on credit cards (his thank goodness), giving up his beloved hobbies and dogs, distancing himself from his mother and sister, and oh yeah - his callous disregard for my well being - pretty much sums it up. I finally get it.
But another thought - he said from the beginning he wanted to start a "new chapter". Then he switched to a "fresh start".
Well, he's been playing house with Catbitch for 2 years now. I think the "fresh start" is not so fresh anymore wouldn't you say?
He's in an established relationship. Surely the honeymoon period is about over.
I do believe it's my turn for that "fresh start".
Wow Flicka,
We seem to post over each other every night! So your H is a Yo-Yo. And a British accent! I would have fallen in love too.
So fire back with another D plan until he gets it. Sounds like he enjoys keeping you off balance.
I think you're also in need of a "fresh start".
I like Pema too and "Going to Pieces Without Falling Apart". Also check out "Emotional Intelligence". If your H is highly intellectual like mine is, it will explain why he's emotionally stupid.
Happy Birthday week!
Oh Friend Fox, I never figured him out.. He is British and from the 60's, like me. He is a serial adulterer, but occasionally got married. I was number three. I laugh at him and wait him out. His family loves me and I love them. Still.
He runs amok, and I used to get frantic. We lost a house and a lot of money. That caused a serious glitch. For me and for him. I mind being homeless. Now I just wait him out. Back he comes, like a yo-yo. Let's walk the doggie... Around the world! Clunk!
Money is what matters to my guy. I am living in a holding pattern with other family problems. I wake up earlier and earlier to read from my tower of self help "novels". Pema Chodron is most helpful. I am a wayward Lutheran who became Buddhist. Or the perfect db-er. Let go of attachments, is the refrain. It works.
I have been to marital hell and back this week. I dared to challenge my H's distance and disinterest and he fried me with a plan for divorce. He recanted. We are already divorced, really. He lives outwest but sends money to prop me up. I work and afford him insurance so he can be self employed. He almost is. He is identured to some icky dairy co-op.
This is birthday week for both him and me. He is abandoning his little boring cat family to come 'home' for dentistry. He is going to be here two whole days. He returns just often enough to keep me off balance. I do still want him to come home. I am not in the mood to start over. Unless I can move to Minneapolis and then live in the eclectic Uptown district where Prince lives and sometimes prances. H and I used to live up there and hang out.So fun.
I still admire how you shut down when your H launched. I think you saved yourself...
We will keep cross posting {posting while cross} and then we will resubmit incase anyone missed it all. I did not mean to do that. Hopefully, everybody will miss most.
Let's look forward. I did reconsider my big plan during this last fire fight. I checked out of the troubles very fast and then considered summer.
I plan to sunbathe. I have red hair and I want new bright freckles. I am old enough that I can outrun skin cancer.
Please keep your poise. I barely do. I react too much and then regret. But I 'watch' myself being awful. That is something, don't you think?
Oh no, no, no, no, no!! These new "upgrades" will never do! It's too busy and cluttered. Too much to read and sort through.
Not to mention the double, double posts and sometimes triple, triple, triple posts.
I can't find anyone's thread. Please at least put the thread owner's name under the forum title.
There are enough changes going on in my life right now! Not this too!!
Is it just me?
Same. My H is a talented prick. He just gets distracted... for years in a row. He is so fricken creative, in small contexts and big... he goes awry.
So I must extricate me from him.... or not. He gets that I know him. He is home for a fractured moment tomorrow.. another fire fight or just another laugh and goodbye. That is what is we have learned to do.
Did you condo shop? You should find your next place...
Silverfox I am with you on the change thing - I was upset and started to withdraw - can't take anymore change... what were they thinking? Has anyone noticed that there isn't any privacy either.
Silver Fox,
Just checking in on you. I hope you are doing well.
I'm not sure about these changes either!
Well, I still don't care for these upgrades. Too many words - everyone's posts in full view - I get distracted and try to read them all. And what's the difference between "Active Posts" and "Active Topics"? But I will adjust. Heck, I adjusted to my H running off with another woman
Hey Silver, maybe it's someething in your settings. There was hardly any changes at all on my confuser after the upgrade.
Ok, well I played around with the settings but nothing much changed. I did find that you can hide your smiley face if you don't want anyone to know you're on
But now to more pressing matters. I finally sent H my list of terms. I stayed very business like and to the point. We were supposed to meet last week but I was just too busy with end of school stuff.
Thanks for letting me get the school year over with. Now I’ll cut to the chase. You know I don’t want to live here anymore and you know the reasons why. Therefore, your first option - “I take the house. I either let it roll into bankruptcy/foreclosure or somehow find a way to make the payments, fix it, and sell it myself.” - will be best for me.
I have already been looking at houses but it’s going to take time and money to purchase a place that’s suitable for me, as well as the dogs. Ideally I would like to move while I have this time off.
Since your retirement fund is the only money available, here is what I need:
1. $xx,xxx to wife (for a down payment, closing costs, moving expenses and to begin paying off the joint debt
2. $x,xxx to husband (for the summer)
3. $xxx monthly alimony (to help with joint debt and pet expenses)
I would agree to hold off on a start date for alimony until you secure a job. Also, you need to look into what the tax penalty is for withdrawing early retirement.
Remember that mediation is scheduled for this Wednesday at 9:30 but if we can work out an agreement I, like you, would rather not go through that again. I will gladly call my lawyer to cancel it but I need to do so by Monday afternoon. Then you can send the terms your lawyer and he can write a formal draft for us to review.
This email is a complete 180 for me. I refuse to say anything more like "I'm sorry it's come to this" or "I still can't believe this is happening" as I did so much of in the past.
It's been over 24 hours and I still haven't heard from him.
Here's his reply. He also called first - early - so I was barely awake enough to respond. Mostly I just let him vent and oh, there was this one gem - "I was a good husband for 20 years and this is what you do?"
(OW's) grandfather died yesterday so I didn't see this email until a few moments ago. I checked Saturday night but I didn't see it then. Sorry for being so slow to get back to you. Anyway, first things first, based on this offer we need to delay the mediation. Will you please call your attorney?
I don't know what to say about what you have asked for. I obviously need to talk with my attorney. I'm sure you know that it seems significantly worse (from my perspective) than the previous offer. I don't think I would even be allowed to give you all my retirement. It's a 20% penalty for withdrawal and then it's taxed as regular income.
In terms of the house, I would be willing to try--it will take me getting a heck of a job--but it is also going to be very, very hard to refinance the house in my name. At best it wouldn't be possible for some time to come. If I can't refinance it, letting it go into foreclosure would effect you just like it would me. And I can't fix it on my own without resources. So, I'm not sure how your plan for the house would work though I'm willing to listen if you know more than I do.
So what happens to the rest of the joint debt in conjunction with the alimony? You are taking it all and using the alimony to pay it off? Or I am still taking 1/2 the joint debt, all the debt in my name, the negative equity in the house, and every cent of my retirement? Is that your offer?
I'm going to leave it there for now. I am just processing the extent of what you are asking. Am I to take it you no longer have any desire to "work together" in the short term? I have been holding my breath hoping we could find a way for me to work on the house together and use the labor for both our benefits. I guess that's not going to happen. I have a lot to think about and plan for.
I called and canceled mediation. Haven't heard any thing else from H.
So I make a stand - ask for what I want. He's sees it as punishment and I'm "going to leave him pennyless". I guess I should leave him alone for now? Let him cool off?
Hey SF,
First, I want to thank you for reading my post. It has been a long journey, one I never would have subscribed to but it has had its many benefits. Even tonight my son said that he is thankful for the divorce because it has taught him so much and allowed him to love me even further, deeper. I am blessed.
As someone who has been through h#ll and back, I want to offer a different perspective. It seems that you keep delaying the D in hopes that H will come back. You seem to think that if you just wait long enough, he will see that Catbitch is not right for him. You are so terrified of him moving 200 miles away that you are trying to stall any progress with the D. This is just my take from what I have read. I hope I am not offending you by saying this.
There is so much fear with a D. Trust me I know. Anytime my Ex sent me and email concerning his desire to get it over with, my heart sank, my stomache went into knots. That is until one day I realized that I was already living the life of a D person. He wasnt there, there was no support from him, I truly had been on my own for awhile. I then saw that all of my stalling tatics was just keeping him and maggot together. Sure, there had been many times and post that stated that I was over him, that I was finally dropping the rope. The truth was that as long as I was fighting him on the D, I wasnt letting go.
Now dont think that I am saying you should roll over. Absolutely not. You should be putting your BUSINESS hat on and negotiating for the best and the most fair settlement possible, but you should be trying to move forward in this area. He is gone for now, lost to the fog. You are not going to get him to wake up by delaying anything. Maybe the best thing for him to do is to go and move in with Catbitch. That is when things started to fall apart for my H and his maggot. Right now they are still living the fantasy and you keep giving them something to unite on.....hating you. If you remove yourself from this equation, then they WILL crash and burn.
But you truly do have to remove yourself completely. It has to be honest and not manipulative. You need to go completely dark with him. Dont let him at the house anymore....learn to take care of it yourself. If you dont want to take care of the fish, make him move them out. It is not your problem. DOnt email him anything....that is what L are for. Stop engaging.....NC = Nice and Calm. It also gives YOU the space to finally heal and to no longer be affraid of a D. After all, at this point it is just another piece of paper.
You want a R that is loving and supportive and kind and you probably hope it is with your H. Your H is not capable of this right now and never may be. Once you truly let go of expecting anything from him, you will be able to move on and find someone who is. It may turn out to be him, but ss long as you hang on he will stay stuck in the place he is at and will not grow or change. I say this with such compassion because I too was once where you are.....please let him go fully. Do not engage. It will be hard, but well worth it. You do not have children together so there is absolutely no reason to talk to him again right now. If he leaves OW, then and only then can you try to reconnect with him.
I hope this did not sound too harsh. It was not my intent. I am just wanting you to have the best possible outcome and to find true happiness for yourself. I wish you luck and peace.
(((Silver)))
Just catching up with you...
I think it's great that you are fighting for your due. You have every right to make that list of your terms, do not let him guilt you on that. He's just trying to get you to give him what he wants, same old story.
I agree with brokenhearted, let the lawyers handle it. Now is not the time for communication with him. Start looking for a new place - it's so much fun planning a bright new future!
Thanks Brokenhearted and Pearl,
No B, what you said was not too harsh and I appreciate your encouragement. I was indeed completely dark all last fall and most of the winter. Then I changed to the MLC forum and was advised that one should never go all dark on an MLC man. Someone even suggested I leave his favorite snack by the aquarium when he came over to fill it. Really? Boy was I ever confused then!
But then we had mediation in March and things started picking up. I was finally strong enough to talk with him without emotion and I felt the "shift". I began working in earnest on my terms for the big D, much to H's chagrin. It's not exactly what he expected. Oh well.
AND NOW THIS: Last Sunday morning at 6 a.m. H calls me:
H - I'm on my way to the hospital. I think I have appendicitis.
M - Are you driving?
H - Yes
Me - By yourself?
H - I'm driving my truck.
Me - Why are you driving BY YOURSELF???
H - It's a long story. (nice move OW)
So, we call back and forth all day. I called his mom and sister. He finally has surgery that night. All went well. He calls me when he first wakes up - very groggy and apparently very alone. I never did find out why he drove himself to the hospital.
But there's more to the story still. I sent an email Saturday night - a little sterner this time. Explaining why I felt I had to ask for his retirement fund and that I didn't appreciate him threatening me with bankrkuptcy. Because he was sick all that night he didn't see this email until he returned from the hospital Monday night.
Tuesday morning he calls in an absolute crying, raging, apparently about to hit rock bottom state. He's in pain of course from the appendectomy which adds to the drama of the call:
"I can't take this anymore. I don't have job, I've lost my health insurance. I can't pay for this surgery. I can't keep imposing myself here (meaning living with OW). I'm getting it from all sides (not sure what this meant). I've tried to be nice (so his niceness has been fake?) and now you want all my retirement which will leave me penniless!!!
I guess I did the right thing just letting him rant. I didn't argue with him. I told him I could not have a conversation with him in the state he was in and he needed to go back to bed and focus on healing first. I repeated this several times.
His crying was very unsettling to hear. Eventually he just hung up. I can't even remember what was said at the end.
For better or for worse (ha) I sent an email that night.
"All issues aside - please let me know how you're doing. I'm worried about you".
No response. Complete darkness from him now. So I sit and wait and pray that the OW has enough sense to take care of him at least as well as she takes care of her cats. I will not call or email again.
The bill for H's surgery came today. Boy, that was fast. $2,300 - and that's just for the doctors - another will arrive shortly for the hospital room, etc. H's health insurance ended May 31 - nice timing H.
Still no contact from him. His birthday is next Sunday. Not sure what to do about this one. Last year I sent him a text - "Happy Birthday - I miss you - first time in 22 years".
He sent a reply - "thanks for the text but wish you hadn't tried to make me feel guilty". Duly noted. This was before I had a full grasp of DB principals.
This year I'll probably ignore it? Not sure yet.
A very busy day for me with all kinds of GALing. So OF COURSE, H calls today and leaves a message - "I'm coming to town to finish packing up my office. I'll be on the road for a few more hours. I'd like to talk with you to see where we're at, call me".
Where we're at?? Quite a change from his last hysterical call. What about an email response to my last email? What about calling me, oh I don't know, IN ADVANCE, so we could have possibly made plans for today?
I didn't change my day and I didn't return the call. He never called back.
So I'm stuck with having to return his call now? - he won't answer anyway at OW's. Or, send an email - Sorry to have missed you. Busy day. How about letting me know a day ahead next time so we can plan a meeting.
Something like that?
Silver...your thread is like Sliding Doors ! (you seen that film?) Every single time he throws you an olive branch, you ignore it, you're too busy. I dont get it, why do you do that? Why are you too busy to have returned his call?
You seem very involved with work, from your posts and I am curious, was that an issue in your M at all? Did H feel that you made work your priority and he had to fit in around? YOu work for a school right, so I guess thats a very structured timetable year on year that you have to be committed to, but even so, you said...
"I didn't change my day and I didn't return the call. He never called back."
This just seems counterproductive to me. Ok, dont pursue, absolutely, but dont ignore his contact either.. if my bf ever contacted me, text, email, phone, I ALWAYS responded. I was consistently 'there', which is some advice I got in the early days about men in MLC.. they need reassurance and consistency, they are in a dark place. Its not hte same as the man that appears to be doing ok whilst he runs off with his secretary.. I believe going dark in those sitches lets them feel the full force of their decision (annoying young secretary v loving wife I walked out on).
I wouldnt write to him in an email "How about letting me know a day ahead next time so we can plan a meeting".. that sounds a little like a critiscism and also, will highlight his shame at being so cr*p and NOT being capable of calling you in advance or being normal in anyway. His life is chaotic and so is his behaviour, perhaps you should accept that.
I would return his call, being light and upbeat and vague about why you didnt reply, but acknowledge his call and thank him for ringing. Its a big deal that he continues to contact you, so I do wish you wouldnt keep rebuffing it!
Or, if you want to email, how about "Thanks for your call, it would have been good to chat with you, so sorry I wasnt able to reply on *day*. Speak to you soon, *Name*"
I'm reading along and hoping that you two get to talk soon. It doesnt surprise me that his insurance ran out and THEN he got appendicitis.. I thkn the universe is trying to tell him something and he is certainly being served some hard lessons.
The most interesting thing though was when he said "I can't keep imposing myself here (meaning living with OW"... wow.. sounds like the rosey glow has worn off that one then, or their R. It sounds what it is.. he feels, or she has made him feel, like he is "imposing", which isnt love, or a mutual living together arrangement.
I thnk you should ackowledge his bd, in a jokey, light, upbeat way and yes, dont make him feel guilty. Could you send him a funny e-card? Or email him a link to something, a story or video clip he might find amusing? Dont wish him "happy birthday" as that seems a bit trite considering the circumstances. How about, just .. "Saw this and thought you'd like it, on your birthday".. just acknowledge it.
Al xxx
Oh, Silver Fox, You are so sure footed. Please do not doubt yourself.
Keep condo shopping!! I thought you had one in mind...
I think you should notice your H's birthday. I 'noticed' mine! What I did was load up on a lot of cat toys! I sent them off with and a cute cat card!! {There are so many!!!} I enclosed a Bob Dylan CD. I am not certain that would be alright for you, but use your good sense of humor to jack with him.
I would LOVE a younger man, but your experience makes me careful. I will search out an older guy next time! I will cherish him! And the one after him!! Do you feel discordant with the age difference? Did it matter early?
Your H has missed out. I bet he regrets it all very soon! I am supposing you don't. There is a point where we stop imagining it will be okay, if only. I am sorry for his appendicitis. His timing was horrific. Throw him some cat snacks.
And so it goes.
Hi Ali,
I was getting ready to send out an S.O.S. for some support here! Thanks so much for not giving up on me. Your advice always makes me go a little deeper. Although I still have a very difficult time with the "tough love" vs. "validate and be nice" approach.
Let me address a few of your points:
You seem very involved with work, from your posts and I am curious, was that an issue in your M at all? Did H feel that you made work your priority and he had to fit in around?
Yes, I'm a teacher and very dedicated during the school year. No, it was never an issue - H is a teacher too, which was wonderful - we had plenty of time off together including Xmas break and summers. As a matter of fact, H has told me several times that OW is a workaholic and that is an "issue" for them. Interesting.
"I didn't change my day and I didn't return the call. He never called back."
I know this sounded cold, but, I had a whole day spa girl thing planned! We are told over and over on this board to do what YOU want, get him off your mind, GAL, etc. I sent him a very caring email last week which he did not respond to. So I pick up the phone while I'm having a pedi to hear him ask about the D? Damn!
if my bf ever contacted me, text, email, phone, I ALWAYS responded. I was consistently 'there', which is some advice I got in the early days about men in MLC.. they need reassurance and consistency, they are in a dark place.
Well Ali, with all due respect, was your bf calling to ask you if you'd talked to your L? What are we going to do about the terms? I can't give you all of my retirement? Can't you live in the house one more year til the economy rebounds? Should we just go to court and let the judge decide? Etc., etc.
Yes, he's in a very, very dark place and I do feel for him. I just want to grab him, hug him, tell him to stop this insanity. Lose the OW and let's work our a$$es off to repair the house and our M together. But this is a big pursuing no, no.
I wouldnt write to him in an email "How about letting me know a day ahead next time so we can plan a meeting".. that sounds a little like a critiscism and also, will highlight his shame at being so cr*p and NOT being capable of calling you in advance or being normal in anyway. His life is chaotic and so is his behaviour, perhaps you should accept that.
I must have picked up on your vibes about this one. I did send an email last night but decided to leave out the "call ahead please". I simply said - "Sorry to have missed your call. I had a busy day planned. Hope you're recovering. Will speak with you soon".
It doesnt surprise me that his insurance ran out and THEN he got appendicitis.. I thkn the universe is trying to tell him something and he is certainly being served some hard lessons.
Yes, the universe and karma are quite a team aren't they! He's getting some hard lessons but I don't think he's put 2 and 2 together yet.
The most interesting thing though was when he said "I can't keep imposing myself here (meaning living with OW"... wow.. sounds like the rosey glow has worn off that one then, or their R. It sounds what it is.. he feels, or she has made him feel, like he is "imposing", which isnt love, or a mutual living together arrangement.
I'm glad you picked up on this one. I found it an astounding admission. He probably doesn't even remember saying it though. But yes, there must be trouble in paradise. Afterall, they're in luuuuuv, they're boyfriend and girlfriend. Why would it be an IMPOSITION to live with your soul mate?
Thanks again Ali for reading. I'll also keep your b'day suggestion in mind. Right now I'm very tempted to not do a thing. I was nicey nice/pursuing the last 2 years and look where it got me!
Flicka!
Great to hear from you. No, I'm not sure footed at all. See above!
No use to condo shop yet if H refuses to give up the fund because it will make him "penniless"
Age was never an issue. I'm a very youngish person. If it weren't for my grey, um, I mean silver hair, I could pass for maybe 35ish to 40ish?
My H on the other hand is aging rapidly. Every time I see him, which isn't often - HIS hair is speckled more and more. He's turning into the very thing he was trying to avoid.
Wait, I have it, I think I'll send him some balls for his birthday since he's given his to the Catbitch
Ok, I just read what you were going to give your h for his bday and I spit water all over my keyboard laughing.
Listen, I know that it is hard because everyone gives different advice. Believe me, I sometimes dont know which to follow. So, I always go with my gut. I do what feels right to me.
According to the db book, you should try something, monitor it and if it isnt working, try something else. So, it isnt one size fits all. You try it for a reasonable amount of time, and then analyze.
If going dark didnt give you whatever desired results you were looking for, dont do it.
I went dark for me. It was not healthy for me to have contact with him right now, so I dont. But it is different for everyone. What works for one person, might not work for another.
The main thing is this - dbing is really for you. It's a chance to see the things about you that you want to change, to find out what makes you happy, and to become the person you were meant to be. And sometimes it leads to saving your marriage.
This is hard stuff, really hard. All you could do is continue to move forward and follow your instincts. You are doing great!
Ok, I HAVE to chime in here....I have been through the emotional ringer and have come out the other side very intact. For so long I did everything and anything to "win" back my H. I have recently re-read ALL of my post and can see exactly where I went wrong. SF, you feel like you are getting conflicting advice, well you are.....but I am here to tell you what is best for YOU, not your H, not your M. Because without a WHOLE you there is no possibility for a R anyway. It took me soooooo long to understand this.
When I was on my journey I was told time and time again, "Act like the OW, if you are mysterious and fill up their love buckets they will come back to you." Sheesh,to think I actually paid for this advice. I am not trying to sound cynical here, but boy did this reasoning tear apart my self-esteem. What I really needed to do was detach and let go. I needed to focus on me and not "us". I needed to just let him be in his screwedup world to face the consequinces of his actions. Here is the thing.....as long as OW is in the picture (even just a littel teeny tiny bit) there is NO HOPE for a R......did you hear me...NO HOPE for a R. He has to be away from her before he can defog and get his head on straight to even think about R. Why waist your time and effort on something that is not going to be noticed? I am going to post a few things that I learned to your thread.....I took me almost a year to believe this stuff, but it is true..........
LESSON ONE:
This is from the Marriagebuilders website that talks about Romantic Affairs (the kind my H is in). I think it describes them very well and how to handle it with our WAS. Paln A is only suppose to last for a couple of months....find ways that meet your WAS needs. It is stated over and over and over again that this RARELY ever stops the affair. Plan B is to go no contact:
For the benefit of some of the recent visitors, here is some information I've gathered about "romantic" affairs, the first version of which appeared here some months ago.
You find yourself in a horrible situation. It’s something you never thought would happen to you or your marriage. Your spouse has been cheating on you and lying to you. You finally uncovered it, and the knowledge is ripping you apart inside. And if that isn’t bad enough, your discovery of your spouse’s affair isn’t the end of it; he/she won’t stop seeing their affair partner (known on this site as the OP, other person; OM, other man; or OW, other woman).
Most experts in marriage counseling agree that there are several different types of affairs, but this post will deal with the “romantic” type. In this type of affair, the wandering or wayward spouse (WS) has crossed a boundary and “fallen in love” with an affair partner (OP, other person). What makes this affair so difficult to deal with is that it is emotionally driven. The “in love” state is often so powerful that the WS may be willing to sacrifice the marriage and just about everything else to pursue it.
Some characteristics of a romantic affair are:
a. The WS refuses to end it.
b. The WS most often refuses to seek counseling either individually or as a couple.
c. The WS has little or no concern for the effect this has on his/her family.
d. The WS believes they have found his/her soulmate.
e. The WS re-writes your marital history in a way that tries to justify the affair.
f. The WS is quite prepared to make sacrifices to maintain the affair that no rational person would consider. These may include divorce, loss of friendships, estrangement of relatives, and/or ruining his/her financial well-being.
Think of the classic situation of a teenage love affair where one teen has been told that the person they are dating and in love with is using him or her or is demonstrably bad for them. Have you ever seen such a teen take anyone’s advice and stop seeing this lover? It’s rare, because one’s emotions corrupt any attempt at clear thinking. This is what happens in romantic affairs. It is a powerful fantasy relationship in which the partners may idealize each other and bond in a way that makes everything else in their lives seem insignificant by comparison. If your spouse is engaged in a romantic affair and agrees to break it off, you are extremely lucky.
There are several very good books which can help you deal with your situation. Among the best are Dr. Frank Pittman’s Private Lies; Dr. Shirley Glass’ Not Just Friends; Dr. James Dobson’s Love Must Be Tough : New Hope for Families in Crisis, and all the books by Dr. Willard Harley.
From the point of view of a betrayed spouse (BS), one’s spouse having an affair appears to be a rejection of you in favor of someone else. This can be a devastating blow to your self-esteem. You hear things like the classic “I love you, but I’m not in love with you,” and other statements along similar lines. You are shocked that this person who pledged to love you through thick and thin or until “death do us part” has suddenly forgotten that commitment or decided to revoke it without advance notice. (Chances are your spouse never talked about a marital crisis or separation or divorce before the affair.) They don’t want to work on the marriage, and you don’t understand why. They latch onto any events in your past in which you had a disagreement with them, no matter how rare or insignificant they seem, as evidence of your incompatibility. They won’t go to counseling, or if they do, they sabotage the counselor’s efforts and then tell you “I told you it wouldn’t work!” They won’t stop the affair, even though you can point out a dozen practical reasons for stopping it and fixing the marriage. They are not concerned about the children, after all, “they’ll adapt.” Your joint personal finances are jeopardized because the pursuit of love is more important than worrying about money or mortgages or credit card bills. Your wandering spouse’s family and friends may turn against you too. You don’t know what they’ve been told, but it’s a safe bet that they’ve been given a laundry list of grievances against you, while carefully leaving out the details of how they lied, cheated, and deceived you to pursue their affair. Of course, all those things were justified because you weren’t a good spouse, and this new person in their life is their true soulmate.
You’re angry, upset, and depressed. You fluctuate between these emotions while trying to make sense of it all. But you can’t make sense of it because infidelity is not a sensible act. In fact, much of what your spouse does seems self-destructive; that is because it is self-destructive, and if you are not careful your spouse will destroy you, too.
What can you do when you discover that your spouse is engaged in a romantic affair? Well, according to Pittman:
“I advise spouse’s who are waiting for their mate’s romance to end: don’t try to out-romance a romantic. Don’t bother to arouse jealousy. Don’t try to get your partner’s attention, increase your partner’s guilt, or threaten some kind of unpleasantness. Just express your point of view and then go off and do whatever holds you together during this time.”
Glass offers no solution to the WS who refuses to stop the affair.
Dr. Harley offers a plan for dealing with a spouse who is unwilling to stop the affair (see Plan A and Plan B on the MB website). But even Dr. Harley acknowledges that affairs of this nature are extremely difficult to break. They are often characterized as addictions, because they share many of the self-destructive traits that are visible among alcoholics and drug addicts. Most affairs will have to “burn out,” that is, they run their course until the romance fades and reality intrudes to destroy the fantasy. Unfortunately, this very often doesn’t happen until a lengthy separation between husband and wife occurs, or in some cases, after a divorce.
Here are some things to consider:
1. The affair is not your fault. No matter what the state of the marriage prior to the affair, no one forces the WS to have the affair, and having the affair is clearly not a solution to marital problems. It’s very important that you avoid beating yourself up over this situation, not only for your own well-being but also because your frame of mind can help or hinder your chances of recovering your marriage.
2. It is a myth that affairs don’t occur in good marriages. People in good marriages DO have affairs. Dr. Pittman says the following:
"Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones."
Or Dr. Shirley Glass:
"When people marry, they bring almost mythic assumptions to the union, including these: If we love each other, you will not cheat on me; if we have a good marriage, we will be safe from infidelity. The truth is that not every person who is unfaithful is unhappily married."
You probably know someone who loves their wife or husband and claims to have a good marriage, but still can’t turn down an opportunity for a sexual encounter with someone else. This is especially true of philandering men. There are other reasons why people engage in affairs that have nothing to do with the marriage itself; self-esteem issues, depression, sexual addictions, midlife crises, etc.
3. Don’t take the affair personally. This is not a rejection of you; this is simply a bad choice by your partner who most likely tried to hide the affair from you because they didn’t want to lose you.
4. The OP is not necessarily more attractive or sexier than the betrayed spouse (BS). Most of the time the affair partner is no better in bed than the BS, it’s just that the intense emotional involvement makes it seem so, especially for women. Ironically, the OP is often chosen more for his/her incompatibility with the WS than for any similarities; the greater the differences, the more intense the relationship. Remember, this isn’t about physical attractiveness or sexual prowess, it’s about brain chemistry – the same brain chemistry that fuels addictions to things like drugs, porn, and alcohol.
5. Not all affairs result in divorce. Most statistics indicate that, of couples who seek counseling for having marital problems due to an affair, between 80 and 85% reconcile. These statistics refer to all types of affairs; there is good reason to believe that reconciliation in romantic affairs occurs at a much lower success rate. Pittman found that only about half of his patients whose marriages were damaged by a romantic-type affair were saved. In Pittman’s experience most of the couples who divorced after an affair did so because of the steadfast refusal of the WS to stop the affair.
6. Nearly all affairs end, usually within two years or less. Even when the affairees marry each other, only 25% of them are still together after 5 years. Pittman found that five years after the revelation of an affair, most WSs were back with their marriage partner.
7. In romantic affairs, it is usually a waste of time to try to talk the WS into stopping the affair, working on the marriage, or getting counseling, but it won’t hurt to try once or twice when you first uncover the affair. Don’t expect the WS to be sensible or practical.
8. Although it goes against Dr. Harley’s advice, it may be a bad idea to assume responsibility for marital problems at the time of discovery of a romantic affair. That’s because the WS is looking for justification for the affair and by assuming responsibility for any marital problems, real or imagined, you are inadvertently giving your spouse an excuse for his/her actions. No attempt to solve marital problems will work while the affair continues. Stop the affair first, then talk about marital problems and their solution.
9. Don’t beg for a second chance or promise to change in an attempt to persuade your WS to stop the affair or prevent separation or divorce. This doesn’t work. Don’t allow what love your WS has for you to be turned into pity. Keep a bold front, even if it is only a façade and you are crumbling inside.
10. It is the WS who most often files for divorce. Interestingly, Dr. Pittman says there is almost always a point when the WS makes an attempt to return to the BS, even after the divorce occurs, (although you may not recognize the attempt for what it is, and it may come as a result of the WS’s desire to assure themselves of your continued love).
11. Don’t be surprised if your WS claims all sorts of marital problems that you had no idea existed. The creation and/or gross exaggeration of marital problems is part of the process of transferring guilt of the affair to you or the marriage. It is an attempt by the WS to rationalize what cannot be excused. Does the WS believe what he/she says about the marriage? The power of self-deception is often proportional to the guilt one would be forced to endure without it; WSs often believe their own lies and some never come to grips with the truth.
12. If your WS has had multiple romantic affairs, it may be that they are in love with the idea of being in love. These people are very often not suitable for marriage and will bounce from relationship to relationship until their dying day. You may want to bail out of this marriage or be prepared to spend a lot of money on a psychiatrist.
13. Although you may be desirous of saving your marriage, it is best to prepare for the worst. Seek legal advice about your possible divorce and custody issues. Do whatever is necessary to prevent the WS from destroying your financial resources along with your marriage.
For those of you looking for quick and easy solutions, there are none. Dr. Harley recommends exposure (telling any friends, family, or co-workers who might be able to influence the WS to stop the affair) as a method of accelerating the demise of an affair, but generally speaking, there are three possible outcomes even if you follow Dr. Harley’s Plan A/B:
A. The affair continues, a divorce ensues, and the affairees live together happily ever after. (This is very rare.)
B. The affair continues for a time after discovery, the affairees eventually break up, but either the WS or BS or both refuse to reconcile. (The probability of this occurring seems to be directly proportional to the length of the affair.)
C. The affair continues for a time after discovery, the affairees eventually break up, the WS and BS reconcile. (The probability of this occurring seems to be inversely proportional to the length of the affair.)
I hope this helps some of you who arrive daily on this forum. There are a lot of good folks here offering fine advice coming from first-hand experience.
Remember that you are not alone.
Tomorrow will be the next one.
Basically when all is said and done, it all comes down to this; let go. Let go and live your life as best as you can. Take care of you and get a life and go to counseling and do what you can to live the best life that you can.
I truly believe that many times it is when we really and truly let go, that the WAS looks back. But dont do it for that reason. Do it because it is the healthy choice.
Pray that he comes back, if that's is what you want, but, live as if he's not.
Exactly beginners!!!!! Well said.
Beginnersmind and Brokenhearted,
I can't thank you both enough for your advice and encouragement. I'm turning in early tonight but I will respond with more in the next day or 2.
BH - you put alot of effort and heart into that post. I need to read it many more times. I've done some research as well about "romantic" affairs and I've also read Private Lies and checked out the Marriage Builders website.
Please return to read and post more when you have time.
Thank you ladies!
BH--
Good stuff and I am glad I popped into Silver's thread and saw this today. I am about 19 months into my DH's long distance affair--complicated by a 7 month military deployment in the middle of it. I feel like I had started over at the beginning by the time he came home from deployment, but I am definitely in a MUCH better place than I was back at the beginning.
When I read the list of characteristics of a romantic affair, it was like reading my DH's script. I am doing all right and can wait as long as it takes for this all to fall apart. I have seen the OW beginning to put pressure on him and I know it is only a matter of time (of course, how much time who knows!). I take some comfort in knowing that there is a good chance that their relationship will implode. I just keep working on me and taking care of myself and the kids until that happens.
I am also completely prepared to move forward alone if need be. I know what my legal rights and entitlements are--DH has been paying for me to attend college and I am, ironically enough, studying Family Law. I have spoken informally with an attorney and she says she will also go after him for all legal fees. My mother will lend me the money for the retainer, though, if needed, to get things started. I pray it will not come to that.
DH is looking at, right now, having to give me about $3500 a month between spousal and child support. I do not want to even think about what I will be entitled to from his retirement and military savings plans. The attorney told me it will be substantial and DH can plan on not having much left post-retirement. The attorney is well-versed and reputable in dealing with military divorces from the spouse side. She almost always gets all that is asked for and is a bulldog when there is infidelity involved.
So, long story not so short, I am growing and learning who I am and what I want in my life. DH still has a place in it, albeit a small one right now. But, when he is ready to come home, I will be more than willing to expand it.
Thanks again.
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW
Hi Silver
Thinking about you today so wanted to check in. How are you doing?
Thanks so much Pearl for checking up on me. I had to take a break - didn't mean for it to be so long! I spent most of it with my brother who lives on the coast, so I had lots of beach time. I checked in periodically to try and keep up with everyone but decided not to post.
H sent an email 2 weeks ago responding to my lengthy email questioning him about D terms. His response - "you asked so many questions I don't know where to begin" - and he didn't, just more of the same, saying "this offer is going to suck for me." Well boo hoo.
Now his L has requested a preliminary hearing for August 24. H sent another email saying that if we have an agreement it can be a "final hearing."
Operative word - AGREEMENT. We're not even close. And I promise I'm not trying to delay the D any longer. But there are huge decisions to be made concerning the house and alimony - decisions that will affect the rest of my life.
My blood did run cold for a minute when I read "final hearing". But I've come a long way in 2 years and 4 months. H refuses to give up the OW - has moved in with her - but still says things like "this is not about her". Bullsheet. She's controlling his every move. I'm sure she didn't think this would go on for 2 years either! But I'm also betting that she didn't realize she would inherit an MLC man/boy with no job, no health insurance, no house, no self esteem.
He insists on a D, he'll get his D. I'm doing a 180 now and completely embracing THE D. If H showed up on the doorstep tomorrow and asked for a second chance I would really, really have to think hard. Guess I've reached Mt. Detachment.
Funny story - I have an 18 year old niece, not very educated. Dropped out of high school to run off with her boyfriend. Came back alone and pregnant. Now trying to raise the child while waitressing. She tells me in her very southern accent "What you need to do is get yourself another man! Make yourself unavailable. Show that sorry jacka** your life is just too busy for him anymore and you'll do just fine without him!
Hi Silver Fox,
I think we posted to each other before & I've haven't posted in a long time either but I just wanted to let you know that I was thinking of you!
(((HUGS))))
this offer is going to suck for me." Well boo hoo.
LOL really, booflippinhoo eh?
really tho, it is amazing what these WA say and do Silver, they honestly think of themselves as a victim at times.
I remember when my ex ( then, STBX) came over after seeing a L and said ,,I have to give you alimony for life??? if i would of known that I wouldnt of left ya!
I thought oh yea?? well I would of left you eventually fella when I found out about your secret life! lol honestly!
You sound like a very smart, together woman Silver,I wish you a lot of luck, your attitude is healthy, although I know it is hard at times. I remember it well
Good Luck to you and ((( hugs )))
Unfreakinbelievable. H sends me an email today saying he has SWINE FLU. He says it was too late to treat with Tamiflu so he just has to sweat it out. Is the universe trying to speak to him or what? He's still recovering from his appendectomy in June.
In the meantime he wants to know if we're going to "reach an agreement." Well, I guess we'd better soon before he completely falls apart!
Thank you KarenMarie and NLT for posting!
OMG LOL dont mean to laugh at his swine flu, but your last comment was funny!
Gotta chuckle at times
Hope he wants to reach tis agreement from afar, don't wanna be catching the SF!
Good Luck
Seriously. I was planning an email to him tonight to go over (again) what I would find acceptable as far as D terms. I was really hoping he would initiate contact again soon but this takes the cake.
Now I don't know how to reply. Perhaps:
The Swine Flu? Oh no, you poor thing! I'm surprised it's not the Feline Flu. (OW has 12 cats)
Something smells like a rat - or at least a MLC crazy man. I sent a very nice email asking H if he was sure it was Swine Flu, did they test him? Please take care of yourself and feel better soon.
He writes back - "They didn't test me because it doesn't change how they treat it but the doctor was all but certain."
Say what? The country is on alert for this particular flu strain, right? Why would the doctor not test him to get a positive or negative? The doctor was "all but certain" ????
Are there any doctors on this board? Does this sound realistic at all?
Not a doctor here, but I play one on tv
It sounds very fishy to me! They would def need to know if its SF or not, they would have to quarantine everyone hes been in contact with I would think! Either his dr. is a quack or hes pulling someones leg, is your H a drama king? Wonder why he would tell you that?
sympathy??
unless now they are deciding to be more aloof about it but not from what I've been hearing. Would be curious to find out!
Yes Karen, he's definitely a drama king. Always has been but he's playing it to the hilt now. This email came today:
(W), I am at rock bottom. I have a sinus and ear infection and can't go to the doctor or get antibiotics because I don't have one cent to my name. There are no teaching positions and I'm not qualified for anything else. Today I am gong to get my name on the substitute list but that money is going to be miniscule. Barring a miracle, I am to have to file for bankruptcy at the end of the month. I don't how I am even going to pay for the last offer I made you but it is the absolute best I can do. We have a very, very short time to work out a settlement before the 24rd. I am begging you to work with me on this.
How are we going to agree on a settlement when he doesn't even have a job to pay me anything? The man has a Ph.D. He has known there are no teaching jobs since May - he's not looked for ANYTHING else.
I don't know what to do other than forward this email to my L.
H says he's hit rock bottom but does he not realize that I will too, as soon as next month, when the mortgage and bills are due?
Right, stupid question.
Here's my response to his email:
"Ok, H, you can cut the dramatics. Do you think I feel sorry for you and the Catwoman and the karma that's about to bite both your a$$es?"
Kidding! Just kidding!
But man, I would love to nail him at least once. I've held my tongue for so long.
When is it going to be time for one of those 'truth darts'?
Silver
I personally think forwarding the mail ( letter ) to your L is the BEST idea!- Sometimes these WA try to play on our emotions , our hearts, knowing we are loving people - maybe even trying to take advantage- not saying your H is, just it is known to happen
Our L can sort it out without the emotions involved- a little harder for us.
Its 7 yrs since my ex left, D 3 yrs, he was fired from his job ( not laid off, but fired) from a 6 digit job in this economy!! He called crying that he had a "problem" and was his life worth living?
I felt as my son's father I owed it to him to talk him down, support him, made sure he got help- He seemed sincere.... for awhile, now that everyone has accepted his weakness shall we say, he is back to his old tricks- and here I and others who helped him feel a little used.
So you never know in their MLC madness if its sincere, its really rock bottom, or the first of a few rock bottoms, or if its all a play
Just remember as bad as you do feel for ex and I can imagine you do, your human, please put yourself first! and dont be ashamed, you deserve it! you can be firm but kind
Hi KMS, thanks for posting and sharing some of your sitch. Does your xh call often with his "problems?" I would think that would get tiresome after awhile. We don't have children but the state of our house will force us to communicate for a time even after the big D.
I think that the real rock bottom for him would be if Catbitch kicks him out. Pretty sure that's why he's so anxious to settle by the 24th.
Sent the email to my L and we have an appointment for Thursday. He says that if H signs an alimony agreement and then doesn't pay it, family court will hold him in contempt and arrest him.
Great - how will that help me pay the bills?!
Yeah I'm going through the same thing with child support right now. He hasn't been paying consistently, so I could go after him and end up with him in jail. Hmmm either way I'm still poor. Gotta love it.
Supposedly the threat of jail will force them to man-up.
lol- I don't think there's anything that could make mine man up right now. He'd probably like jail. A bed, food, and no responsibilities.
lol- I don't think there's anything that could make mine man up right now. He'd probably like jail. A bed, food, and no responsibilities.
Yeah, and for my H - no cats!
Man, your H reminds me of my J. Drama king to the hilt. I don't know how many times I have heard that he has nothing to live for anymore... on and on and on. I used to try to talk him down but have quit doing that. It just feeds into his stuff. He hates it now that I don't try to talk him down. When he came a few weeks ago the horrible situation and drama that insued... ug then he wants to tell me that he just needs to not live anymore. And I guess expects sympathy from me. Nope. Not going to get any. Sorry. I tried to get him to get help for depression and whatever else, and he wouldn't do it.
So I guess depression is the bottom line here. Mine said last spring, when his major down hill slide began, "I guess I could kill myself, but that would hurt too many people". I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or try to talk him down, so I remained speechless.
Oh yeah I've heard that threat many times. But his is always that he doesn't "care" who else it hurts. I always reminded him about the kids and played right into it until the last time. When he was in town for the kiddos and acted like a nut. No kidding, that same day he had said to me that he would never see me again except to "spit on my grave". Because I am so evil and do not want him back. Imagine that?
So then he started in with the wanting to die talk and I just spoke before I even thought.. I just flat out looked at him and said, "Well, I guess do whatever you feel you need to do." He was speechless. I haven't heard the threat in exactly that manner again. Since he didn't get what he wanted from it. Fun times, huh?
Hey SF
Tomorrow is your appt w/ your L? Good!
I had my alimony deducted from ex paycheck as he couldnt be trusted, sadly.
No, my ex dosnt call me at all really, only about our S but hes a young adult, so really no need - he just needed to call to let me know no alimony would be coming as he lost his job- and of course, since he did something basically illegal, he starts the pity me routine- typical!
He is like yours, drama just follows him wherever he goes, I could tell you some stories!
Anxious to hear how your appt. goes
So why again do you think he wants to settle by the 24th?
Hi Karen,
Yes, L appt. tomorrow - haven't talked with him in person since March. This has been a long, slow process. Partly due to my stalling, partly due to the system. H thought I would roll over and the D would happen within 3 months of the filing - which would have been last September.
Last summer 2008 H told me that OW was losing patience and if I contested the filing she threatened to move on. This gave me hope of course that even if he wasn't ready to come back, they would at least break up.
Well, she's still hanging on but I've let go. What a difference a year makes.
The 24th is our first court date - a preliminary hearing. I'll find out more tomorrow with L. Supposedly H's L told him it could be our FINAL hearing IF we had an agreement. That's why H is super anxious to settle.
But, he just found out his L will be on vacation next week so he sent me an email yesterday "Our Ls need to commuicate this week if we are going to settle on the 24th." Right, I'm suppose to rush a decision that will affect the rest of my life because his L won't be available next week? I don't think so.
In the meantime, we had to cash out a small amount of his retirement fund to get us through the next few months. H is still not working and is still threatening to file bankruptcy.
The good news is, I gave H his half of the check and finally closed our joint bank accounts. He is own his own now for real.
Oh, and he says he has pneumonia now.
Silver, I have never posted to you before, but I just want you to know that I am incredibly impressed with your wisdom and your grace and your strength.
You remind me of some wise, wonderful posters that used to frequent this board a couple of years ago and helped pull me through the worst of times.
Glad to know there's someone like you here now, to be a bright shining light for others who are struggling.
Peace,
BA
Hi Silver
Did you see your L? How did things go?
Thinking of you
Hey Silver,
I've never posted to you either, but I've returned to the board for a bit, and my reaction was much like BBA's below:
You remind me of some wise, wonderful posters that used to frequent this board a couple of years ago and helped pull me through the worst of times.
I hope you are well and that you survived the preliminary meeting; I found those to be very, very draining.
Hugs,
AH
Wow BMF and AH, Thanks for your compliments!
I appreciate you both visiting my thread. I've tried to stay strong and maintain some sense of grace, but wise? I don't know. I was a mess like everyone else in the beginning and I didn't start posting until well into the 2nd year, so by then I was doing a better job of acting rather than reacting.
I'll check out your threads and in the meantime I hope you'll keep visiting mine as it seems this D is about to happen.
Hi Karen, thank you too. My L appt. went well. He said I have 2 options. He can meet with H's L on the 24th and ask the judge for more time and another date or we can send an official proposal to his L and see what H does.
I chose to go ahead with the proposal. He should have called H's L on Friday but business tends to shut down early around here on Fridays plus his L is out on vacation next week.
Sooo, kind of anticlimatic. I expected a frantic email or call from H because he's not going to like the offer. But of course one of the most important rules here is NO EXPECTATIONS!
Or he could have a new disease!
You just never know with these guys...
Thanks for visiting my thread,
besos,
BA
Yeah, I believe I'll name that new disease - I'm An Idiot For Leaving My Wonderful Loving Wife For A Wacko Neurotic Control Freak
Lol!!
SF, you are doing great.
I love that you chose to stand up for yourself instead of trying to DB yourself silly while h is carrying on with that bimbo. So many here are so "afraid" of making WAS "angry" that they behave like doormat.
I know how painful it is though, and you really are an inspiration.
Hey Silver
Glad your L appt. went well and for the most part it is usually anticlimatic- which actually is a good thing, who needs the drama
I agree w/ the others, your posts stood out to me too as you seem to really have your head on straight, and know whst you need to do, not that I am sure at times you get angry and hurt but you handle things so well. You direct things in a healthy way.
Agree w/ Kimmie too, in all the years here I have seen way too many people become doormats,and its frustrating--- when you have taken yourself away from the sit as long as I and some others here have, and have hindsight-- but we do what we need to do at the time, and everyone is different I suppose, never been the doormat type myself lol and I see you are not either
Have a terrific week!
Have you cleaned your shotgun? Are you still 'welcoming' but locked and loaded?
I am glad you are getting praise for being as good and as distant as you are. Obviously, you are self supporting. You are, right?
I think the financial fall-out colors the result and our reactions.
Perhaps you could change the homestead into a pumpkin patch destination!! Like "Little People"!!
I do read along. I laugh and cry about all of us. MWG brought me to my knees with grief.
Kimmie and Karen, thank you.
Flicka, good to hear from you again!
The only "shotgun" I have is my new business-like approach and calm, very short email replies to all things frantic and furious from H.
Speaking of which, I haven't heard a word from him - or my L either for that matter.
I guess "hammering out a settlement" (H's words) by the 24th is not going to happen, seeing as there are just 3 business days left?
Received an email from H yesterday afternoon:
"My L's office says they haven't heard from your L. Could you check on this? Did your L talk to my L on Friday?"
I forwarded it to my L and he says he did indeed talk to H's L on Friday. If we don't have an agreement by Monday he will go in by himself and ask for another date.
So, seems H's L has dropped the ball? In a hurry to go on vacation and can't be bothered with writing up the terms or even calling H?
Now I need a short response to H's email, staying the course with no emotion - all business.
Something like - "My L did speak with your L on Friday. I don't know why you haven't heard from your L."
Frankly, that's all I want to say to him, seems kind of short but that's really all I know!
Any suggestions?
Ok, now I'm so angry on so many different levels. I never sent H a response and I guess I should have because this is the email he sends this morning:
Given the lack of communication I'm assuming there is no hope of reaching a settlement tomorrow. I'm really sory about that--for both of us--but I respect your decision. I was going to have my sister be my "separate and apart" witness but I couldm't justify asking her to come so far without any sense of whether it might be possible to resolve things. I just don't know anyone else. If I'm wrong and you would like the chance to move forward perhaps you would consider asking a friend of yours? We only need one witness.
I don't understand what's happened over these last couple weeks. I thought we were communicating better and moving toward resolution.I'm sorry that had to change.
Is he kidding me?!!! Hello earth to H - we don't even have an agreement!! "We only need one witness"??? - how about we only need a formal, written settlement including our signatures agreeing to, oh let's see: 1. Alimony 2. H's retirement fund 3. What happens to the house, etc., etc., etc.
Not my problem that his L is on vacation all last week - the week that should have been used to pass the terms back and forth until all was settled.
He "thought we were communicating better"???? Oh my God! I don't even know what to say to this. We haven't seen each other in 3 months and the last phone conversation was in June.
He was going to have his sister be a witness?? She lives over 10 hours away!
Damn it H, wake up!
I was in the middle of composing my calm, business-like reply and he sends this:
Again, it appears irrelevent, but I was able to find a witness for tomorrow's hearing if you were open to a resolution. Could you please tell me if there's any point having him there?
He's insane. I think I could ask for $5,000 a month in alimony and he'd sign off on it.
Catbitch must be laying down the hammer.
My response:
My attorney called yours the morning of August 14 with an offer. It appeares that he did not communicate the details of this offer to you.
A witness is the least of our concerns right now. We don't even have a settlement.
I do not have time tomorrow to talk or email back and forth to either you or my attorney and I will not rush to an agreement under pressure. Neither should you.
There are a lot of unanswered questions concerning the mortgage assumption and your bankruptcy claim, not to mention the house issues.
My attorney can go in by himself tomorrow and ask for another date.
Chill.
I should probably leave off the "chill".
I sent the response at 4:00 and haven't heard back from him.
I left "chill". Screw it.
God, they are so ridiculous, aren't they?
I loved your response to you h.
Thats perfect SF!!
Do not let him intimidate you, mine tried- you are a strong woman, you are smart and doing all the right things
Dont let him get under your skin either, he may be trying to do just that
Your response was perfect
and i love the " chill" LOL
LOL Silver! I just caught up on the last couple months, thought I had your thread watched but guess not.
Ok, so after the appendicitis there was swine flu, infections and pneumonia? Hello karma! Hope Catbitch is enjoying playing nursemaid and breadwinner.
Good for you for not playing into his dramatics. You absolutely should take the time necessary to get everything worked out for your best interests. If he doesn't like it, boo-frickin-hoo for him.
Thanks Kimmie, Karen and Pearl - great to hear from you again. Yes, karma indeed. Apparently the part of the brain that puts 2 and 2 together is still not working for H.
Nothing to update. I forwarded L early this morning H's emails and my response. Also told him I was having some serious 2nd thoughts about some things we had in the proposal (not that H has even read the proposal).
I asked him to request another date. The prelim was supposed to be at 4:00 today.
I kept my cell close by and checked email off and on and.......nothing.
Nothing from H, nothing from L.
Email from L finally. He said that at the hearing "the judge said to have the case set as an "A" case, meaning we either go to trial or present an agreement for approval".
And, "if we reach an agreement sooner, we can put that on the record."
Sooner than what? A record for what? Guess I have lots of questions to send tomorrow.
He also says that H's L and he agreed that the four of us should meet and try to work out a settlement.
Well, that will be interesting. It seems we're starting all over again now.
Wonder what it was like in paradise last night when it turned out that married boyfriend didn't get that August 24 D after all.
My God.
Where do their brains go? LOL!!
Just curious because I don't know how this works: If you go to trial does that mean that you both present your cases and the judge decides how to split stuff up? Does adultery count as a legal reason to D (meaning cause)?
Of course it would be best for you to reach an agreement--that benefits you--beforehand but wondering if H is scared because the judge would most likely give you what you want and possibly even more due to his involvement with Catbitch.
I was thinking of you and wondering what was happening so let us know what the next steps are. If your shoe size is 7.5-8 I can lend you a pair of my kick ass heels to wear to court!
Silverfox,
Sounds like you are handling things very well!
Hang in there!!
((HUGS))
Hi SF
How are things going?
Hi NLT and Karen,
Thanks for checking up on me. Where does the time go? I would have posted news if I had some but I've not heard back from L on a meeting date and absolutely nothing from H either.
Perhaps he's given up on trying to discuss terms with me but if we don't talk between now and the settlement conference it's going to be awfully chilly in that room.
I feel more and more distant from H. I'm at a fairly calm place now, even though some tough decisions have to be made concerning the house, etc. I've read that calmness is a good sign of detachment.
Pearl:
Just curious because I don't know how this works: If you go to trial does that mean that you both present your cases and the judge decides how to split stuff up? Does adultery count as a legal reason to D (meaning cause)?
We could go to trial but it's much more expensive. It's not like we're Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt - we don't have a lot of assets. Adultery is cause for D but H filed first. My L can argue adultery and abandonment as a counter but he tells me that when there's no children, the judges tend to take the easy way out and split everything 50/50. With the adultery charge the judge may give me a little more but probably not as much as I'm asking for.
H is scared to go to court mainly because Catbitch could be called in. I think that both of them are pretty stressed out over this whole drama
and God only knows what kind of lies H has told her.
I was thinking of you and wondering what was happening so let us know what the next steps are. If your shoe size is 7.5-8 I can lend you a pair of my kick ass heels to wear to court!
I wear size 6 and I recently bought a pair of red heels precisely for our next meeting but thanks for the offer!
bought a pair of red heels
woot hoot!! yeah you!! lol love it!
I remember getting ready for court, I bought a cute black skirt, nice silky blouse and some high heel black suede boots-- got a call the day before, NO COURT, they had come to an agreement-- i was relieved but darn, cute outfit! lol and in Cali not a lot of occassion for black suede heeled boots
Actually tho, whatever makes YOU feel good is what you need to do. Going in there w/ your head held high, is the best outfit!
Believe me SF, they do regret their choices, mine does, he is one messed up dude now, its a shame really- his son loves him but no respect for the things he has done
He said himself to son last month when they were hanging out at his "bach pad" he was miserable a lot of the time. We feel sorry for him even tho it was his choices that got him to where he is now- and he still makes things hard on me re: alimony and son : rocky relationship, when all said and done he is suffering most.
Have a nice weekend !
Ah, well, the vindictive part of me would love to see Catbitch hauled in and put on the stand to answer for her part in this. But I want what's best for you so I'll root for the settlement to work out in your favor.
Thanks Pearl, I prefer to call it accountability rather than vindictive
Karen, I hope your H got to see you in those boots at some point.
No, he didnt but my fiance now does, much better lol
How are things going?
You're right Silver, it is accountability. If you are going to steal someone else's man you should have to go before a judge and own up to it. Consequences.
Ah, red heels and black suede boots. Both sound fantastic! I was just on a mini road trip with my best friend and we hit some boutiques but alas, no shoe purchases. That's ok, I did get several new pair a couple months ago and I'm still waiting for the weather to change so I can start wearing them.
Right. I'm pretty sure she doesn't look at it as stealing though. H convinced her that he wasn't leaving the M for her. He moved out first before he started the A (officially). Apparently she didn't hear that age old caveat that when a man says his marriage is over and he's getting a D soon, to run like you're fleeing a burning building!
My red heels are actually strappy sandals so if we don't meet soon it will be too cold to wear them. Speaking of which, I've not heard from either L nor H since our canceled hearing two weeks ago. Two weeks of peace!
And listen to this hilarious dream I had last night:
H and I are sitting on the bed. First time we've seen each other in months. He asks me how I am and what I'm thinking about. I'm exhilarated that he's finally focusing on me and now I get to say everything I've wanted to say for 2 years. I tell him that if only he had told me he was unhappy, if only I had known - that I agonize over the year before he left - what did I miss? Why didn't I see any signs? What could I have done differently?
Then I ask him - what are you thinking about? He says Jingle Bell Rock. What? Jingle Bell Rock, the song. You're thinking about Jingle Bell Rock, that's all?! Yep.
I don't think it takes much to interpret this one. And of course that tune has been in my head all day long!
Gee, no comments about my Jingle Bell Rock dream? Well, anyway, I thought it was pretty telling.
Today I collected all H's bills that still come here and wrote OW's address in the "change of address" box and will send them out tomorrow. In an email over a month ago he said he was getting a new address and he would send it to me. I don't know if he meant he was moving out or just getting a P.O. Box but he never gave it to me.
This summer I sent several large envelopes full of his mail to the Catbitch address but he never aknowledged it. Until today I was still putting them in a pile on the kitchen counter. Why?
He hasn't been here since May. He hasn't even asked about his beloved salt water aquarium - the one reason he used to continue stopping by all last year. I do what I can but there are only 2 poor little fish left and the red stuff, whatever that is, is quickly growing over everything.
Does he wonder what's happening to it? Does he think I'm caring for it? Does he care?
Anyway, I've also given some bill collectors who've been calling here the OW's home phone number. Ha! They don't want his cell number. What choice do I have?
Pretty soon she should also be receiving his favorite football team's monthly magazine. He's had a subscription for years with an automatic annual renewal. They've been stacking up too until I finally realized, duh, I can go online and change the address. Just like magic!
I loved the Jingle Bell Rock dream. Just hesitant to post since I get chastised over here in MLC.
I would just change his address with the postal service, that would take care of everything at once. And I would also tell him to remove all of his belongings by X date, if he doesn't you will dispose of them as you see fit. I'm sure if you post a free ad on Craigslist you can get rid of just about anything.
But that's just my opinion and apparently it doesn't count over here.
I bought 4 new pairs of shoes today...and, of course, the infamous 4" classic black pumps that I'll be wearing into court with the tight black pencil skirt and tight white blouse....
Hey Pearl,
Chastised? On my thread? I hope not. Your opinion does count, at least to me, so please don't stop posting.
I'm aware of the differences between the 2 camps - tough love with a regular WAS but patience/wait it out with the MLC'er.
The suggestion of the timeline for H to get his belongings out would have been too extreme at first for the sensitive MLC'er -drawing the line in the sand that would have been antagonizing.
But now, 2 1/2 years later and he's completely disappeared?
Oh, and three weeks after our canceled hearing, still no word from my L about a settlement conference date.
What's up with that L of yours? Have you left a message for him? That's annoying and unprofessional.
I know, patience above all else for MLCer but it's been a long time. At least forward the mail so you don't have to deal with that every day. If you don't want to get rid of all his stuff or ask him to remove it can you stash it somewhere? The garage, a shed?
Nope, no message to my L - I have a "do not initiate contact" with him too. H wants this D, H needs to push it through. He's had my terms for over 3 weeks now - it's his turn to call his L and see what's next.
As for the mail, his name is still on mortage statements and a few other things, so I can't change his address officially with the post office yet.
Most of his stuff is in a back room that was "his" room anyway. But still, no matter where I look there's some gift, or something - I mean 20 years - our life together is all over the house.
I don't think I'll truly be able to heal until I'm in a new place. However, I did finally take down all the pictures of us and now there's only pics of my family. That was a sad day, but empowering too.
I bought 4 new pairs of shoes today...and, of course, the infamous 4" classic black pumps that I'll be wearing into court with the tight black pencil skirt and tight white blouse....
Excellent Golfgirl! That's the right attitude. This time 2 years ago my days revolved around decisions like how to say or write the perfect words so H would reconsider and come back home.
Last week one of my biggest decisions was whether to buy another pair of boot cut jeans or try a pair of skinny leg jeans.
(I got the skinny leg jeans & they're hot)
LOL! I bought skinny jeans too and everyone at my old employer said how good I looked and how thin. If they only knew the reason why...
Ok, understand about the mail. But it is pretty darn inconvenient for you to have to deal with all his crap. I took down our photos (there were only a few to begin with) and still have only put one back up since BF moved back in. I would have felt empowered if everything in the house wasn't already the way I wanted it.
Chastised? On my thread? I hope not. Your opinion does count, at least to me, so please don't stop posting.
Pearl
I know years ago when I was first here, scared and confused, I appreciated ALL opinions, and like someone told me, take what you need or what fits and toss the rest, which I did, but always thankful for peoples input
There are some people, who may think its their way or the high way but I think most here, especially newbies, would appreciate any input, and from what I can see, you have solid, very thoughtful advice and never claim to be right, just suggest
So I say post away!!!and i've been on/off the board ( just check on people now) for 7 yrs so Im more right hahaha kidding
Hi SF!
Love everyones clothes shopping whoohooo!!!! good for you guys, oh how we ladies love to shop uh?
The ball's in his court as they say but I guess he can't find it, because I still haven't heard a word from H or my own L for that matter. I swear, between H, his L, my L, and myself we've got to be the most dysfunctional group trying to put together a D plan ever.
However, my life goes on and I'm at an all time PMA and GAL high since H walked out. I just bought season tickets to our local theatre - something I've wanted to do for a long time. H hated musicals and rarely went with me. I'm going to see Wicked!
"I'm going to see Wicked!"
Me, too!! Have been waiting forever for it to come within driving distance, and bought tix in April to go with older D in November. It's on the first weekend after my 4-day drive home, but oh well. A 4-hour drive is nothing in comparison! Hope you enjoy it!
Dysfuntional group LOL I hear ya! a lot of cooks in the kitchen! and people wonder why it takes so long, it will all come together tho.
The local theater sounds great!! good for you, my sister and niece saw Wicked when they visited NY said it was amazing!
Sounds like your GAL is coming along, the rest will follow!
I've had season tickets to the musical theatre or series for years without BF. I
love them (did them in hs, college and community theatre; try to go to NY or London every year) and BF does not. But it wasn't something I would ever give up for him! There were other things that I'm taking back.
So
Wicked will be here next month and I'm still debating whether or not to go. I want to see it, have read the book, but really wanted to see it in NY. I've had bad luck with touring productions and not sure I want to risk it. But it's still sold out every time I'm in NY and I don't want to pay full price for it there. Sigh.
Hmm, it doesn't really surprise me that H has dropped the ball since he isn't the picture of responsibility. But I would have expected him to be pushing a lot harder due to his actions/words from this summer. Whatever!
Have fun at the theatre SF!
Oh, I'd much rather see the original productions in NY. But our performance complex is actually one of the best in the Southeast and they bring in great shows every year.
I've just always had excuse after excuse not to go. It's 40 minutes away, can't afford it, no one wants to go with me, etc., etc.
I did see Legally Blond last spring and Spamalot too (hilarious!).
Spending nearly $300 this week for 4 shows was about much more than that - it's about taking charge of my life and not putting off what I want to do. I actually can't wait to go by myself.
I don't get to see Wicked until after Christmas. The first one in a few months is South Pacific - "I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair" - yeah!
Yeah, I've gone by myself for the last two seasons. I see no point in not doing it just because I can't find someone else to go with me. This used to be about the only thing I was comfortable doing alone but now I'm up for just about anything. I figure I'll meet people there or I'll enjoy it enough by myself otherwise I wouldn't bother.
Yep, wash that man right outta your hair!
"I'm gonna wash that man right outta my hair and send him on his way".
Which begs the question - how do I send him on his way when he's already gone? Going on 5 months now. Well last year we went 7 months with NC.
I like what someone said on another thread - "I'm done with my H, he just doesn't know it yet". I feel the same way. If he ever bothers to call or show up again he will get a whole new vibe from me.
No word from my L either. I keep thinking maybe this week - then the week is gone. I'll have to call L soon though. The retirement money we cashed over the summer is almost gone and I will need H's half of the mortgage and joint credit bills by the end of November.
Which begs more questions: Does H have a job? Will he be able to pay his half of OUR bills? Can he pay for a D? Are he and Catbitch still going strong? And finally - WHAT THE HELL IS HE THINKING?
Silver Fox ~
My sentiments exactly!
WHAT THE HE!! IS HE THINKING!
Mine doesn't want me to have anything in the D.
Probably wants the skank to have my share.
Request made by her I'm sure.
* Won't he be surprised!
I have a L he doesn't.
MJ
Silver,
I think you should definitely contact your L to see wth is going on. Bills need to be paid and H is responsible for doing so!
BF and I started taking Lindy Hop classes. If I could afford it, I'd be taking dance classes all week!
Wow, the Lindy Hop - will he have to toss you in the air and swing you between his legs? Or maybe that's the Jitterbug.
MLJ - Thanks for posting. Remember, you're still the Queen and the skank is still, well, the skank. Have you thought of just kicking him out of the house and see what he does with that?
I sent my L an email Wednesday telling him H and I have had no contact since August, the money H cashed from his retirement over the summer is just about gone, he's abandoned all house upkeep/repairs since moving to NC in May, and I will need mortgage/bills help starting mid November. I asked if he or H's L can get in touch with H to make sure he will start paying his share.
As of today I've not had a response from L. Now I have to deal with an AWOL L as well as an AWOL H? How rude not to even acknowledge receiving my email!
On another note, I've been on FB for a few months. I just have a few friends, including H's mom and sister, but I rarely post to them. H was on years ago when it first started up. In fact, I'm sure that's how he and OW began their EA. Then he stopped -hasn't been on in almost two years.
Tonight H posted two comments to his sister. I can see it since I'm her "friend". Very weird to see something he wrote when I haven't spoken to him since early August. She was complaining about the new News Feed - he agreed and said he can't figure out the new format. I so want to post "Well, can you figure out how to get a job and pay your half of the bills?" Would that be bad DB'ing?
I'm reading Pat Conroy's new book - South of Broad. He says "marriage is an institution that can breed hostility and indifference when none is justified". Hmmm
Well, my L emailed today and said he's waiting to hear from H's L.
Then, what do you know - I get this pitiful email from H. First contact since August.
If you have a moment this evening, please read and translate this tale of woe and any suggestions on how to respond?!
I have spent the last 4 months sending out literally hundreds of resumes in every field I am even potentially qualified for and it came to absolutely nothing. I could not even get an interview for a public school teaching job--not even as a teacher's assistant! In the meantime, I started an informal handy man and lawn care business that allowed me to make just enough cash to pay my bills until you started sending me the one's you had been paying. Once the grass stopped growing the calls dried up so things went from bad to worse over the last few weeks. I am down to nothing.
Fortunately, things have finally taken a turn for the better. I have been offered three sections of public speaking at (name of local college) in the spring that should make just enough money to pay your alimony. Better yet, I have applied for a full time position at (another community college) but I have no idea whether I will get it.
I had to turn my cell phone off a couple weeks ago because of the bill collectors but at that point I had still heard nothing from my attorney so I'm not sure where things stand at the moment. I called him this morning and gave him a landline number to contact me. It's probably too late now, but if there are any further chances to forward my # and address to bill collectors etc could you please use my cell and P.O. Box?
Anyway, I'm sure the money I already gave you from the retirement is almost gone, and since I don't yet have other income, I am going to need to spend more of the retirement to pay you. I put in an order to sell $10,000 of my retirement fund but I haven't mailed it yet. For whatever reason, it didn't require your signature this time. I am going to call and make sure and try and get that done very soon.
I have also been waiting to decide on bankruptcy in hopes I got a miracle job that allowed me to avoid it, but with the hospital bill I just don't think it's possible. So, I have a meeting with a bankruptcy attorney tomorrow. I'm sorry I haven't been able to come to take care of the yard but I'm afraid to even drive my truck to the grocery store with 236,000 miles on it. Plus, I could never afford to get the registration. That's also why I haven't been able to visit Florida (where his mom lives) since last Christmas.
In sum, it has been a very sucky few months but if I can get this college job, I think I can finally begin to get back on track. Hope all is as well as can be expected with you. I don't know if you want to handle the $ I owe you through the attorneys or if we can work out something until the finally hearing. Let me know.
Sounds like he has had it rough -- a lot of people have -- and he's hoping to get back on track.
I don't read much here other than a straight forward accounting of events.
What do you see?
Oh, boo-f*cking hoo! Maybe he should have thought of that.
I'm calling bullsh!t here, especially the part about not needing your sig for the retirement fund. Since when?
I'm with Kimmie Lee. I'm a bit surprised he didn't outright ask you to let him off the $ hook but I know that's what he's angling for with his woe-is-me story.
Everyone is having problems these days, including you! He needs to fulfill his financial obligations, period.
I would respond with a simple email: glad to hear your job prospects are looking up, I would like to handle the money...(I would let the lawyers handle the money so everything is on the record that he either pays or weasels out but that is your decision to make.)
Hi ClingingToHope,
I appreciate you posting to me. Yes, H is having it rough right now, but unlike a lot of people, he didn't come by it honest. He had a very good job and lost it due mostly to his involvement with OW. He is suffering the consequences of his dishonest and disgraceful actions. I worry about him but I do not feel sorry for him.
He became involved with her the summer he was supposed to be applying for tenure at the university where he taught. He never finished it - never turned in his portfolio. They had to let him go.
Why does he have 236,000 miles on his truck? OW lives 200 miles away. He drove to see her every single weekend for over a year and a half. Now he lives there - and we're not even D yet.
He mentions not being able to visit Florida because we spent all of our vacations there, 2-3 weeks at a time, for 20 years - boating, fishing, staying with his mom, sister, niece & nephew. When I couldn't go he would go by himself at least 4 times a year. We were going to retire there. He's given it all up for someone who "doesn't like the water and thinks fishing is cruel".
Go back and read my history if you have a chance. I'll check up on you. I haven't done a very good job lately of posting to others but I need to start - I've learned so much these last 2 years.
Kimmie Lee and Pearl
Your bullsh!t meters are fine tuned. I haven't responded to the email yet but I did forward it to my L.
Well, 2 weeks later and I never responded to his email. I wouldn't be able to do it without flattening him - which I've never done (yet). I'm waiting to hear back from my L about the monthly payments. H said to "let him know". Well I think my L should be the one to "let him know".
I think that's a good idea. You're following the age old adage, if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. I hope your L isn't letting this slide, I want to know you'll have the money you need to pay the bills.
Thanks Pearl.
H has started posting to his sister and niece on FB. I can see them because I'm friends with the two of them as well as his mom.
H was on FB years ago before it was so popular, then he stopped for awhile - I guess too busy with OW.
I signed up last summer and have enjoyed staying in touch with SIL/MIL. We keep it casual and never talk about you know what.
It gives me the creeps seeing his posts and his profile pic. I was doing so well at detaching, preparing for the D, acting as if. Now I have to look at his stupid remarks? Surely he knows I can see them?
Ack, that sucks. I would stay away from MIL and SIL's walls. You can block their status updates so they don't show up in your feed. Or you just unfriend them and keep up with them via email. You know I'd never jump in to defend H but I honestly don't think he thinks about you seeing his posts.
BTW, if you want to find me on FB, let me know.
Well I relented and sent H a short email:
"Glad your job prospects are improving. I'd prefer to let the attorneys handle the divorce terms. In the meantime, I will need $900 by this Friday, Nov. 20".
His quick reply: "Okay, I deposited the check last Thursday and I've been waiting for it to clear. I will go ahead and put a check in the mail to you tomorrow so it will be there by Friday".
I forwarded his email to L. Here's proof he cashed more of his retirement fund WITHOUT MY SIGNATURE.
L says to ask for copies of the withdrawal paperwork and tell H he must give me 1/2 of what he cashed.
I sent this message on to H. No reply yet, but he's been on FB all afternoon talking with 16 year old niece about rock and roll bands, hey!
Argh! How can he cash out without your signature? Because the account is just in his name? Can you go to the financial institution and request copies of the statements?
What a douchebag.
SF, I thought of you the other night. I'm starting a new exercise program in December and the studio had an open house Fri night. It's called Pure Barre and combines ballet, pilates and light weights. I'm concerned about not being able to get into the plie but I've been told it's great for strengthening my shaky knees. I just wish I had more flexibility.
Hi SF,
I don't think that I ever wote to you before but when I read what you had to say about your husband taking money from the retirement fund I wanted to make sure that you were aware that this is a huge no no. Not only can he be held accountable for all withdrawals made without your signature but his company can as well, so says Uncle Sam. I would let him know that you are aware of the law so that he won't be draining the account without your knowledge.
In all fairness, he may be oblivious to that since his company may have not asked for your signature, which as I said is against the law. The other thing is that if his company did require it he may have forged your name. Either way I'd put him on notice just in case he's considering another withdrawal in the future. After all you're just protecting your assets!
dsm
Wow, the oldtimers aren't kidding when they say to expect spewing attacks. Here's H's reply to my email asking for paperwork and 1/2 of what he took out of his fund:
That's really nice. Thanks a lot. First, I told you I was going to "cash out" some of my retirement before I did and you didn't say a word or bother to reply to my email. Second, I got the money exactly so that I could pay your alimony until I had a paycheck coming in (as well as my bankruptcy attorney and truck repairs so that I can GET to work). But I suppose you are going to demand BOTH 1/2 my retirement AND $900 a month. Anyway, I was going to put a check for $3600 in the mail today (which is 1/2) to pay alimony through March and I'm still going to do that. I'm sure you and your lawyer will enjoy taking more from me when that time comes.
Ohhh, I'm supposed to be "nice" - oops - my bad. I guess now is the time for me to respond with the classic "I'm sorry you feel that way"?
dncrm: Thanks for your post. Last summer we agreed to take out a small amount of his retirement fund to help us both out. I'm the beneficiary so I had to sign and have it notarized then he had to drive to his former place of business to also sign in person - then mail it to the main company (it's retirement stock). What my L and I don't understand is how this time he apparently was able to withdraw funds without any of the above process, including not getting my signature. OR, he might have another account that I know nothing about and one that he didn't disclose at mediation. As you can see, his email is very defensive.
Pearl: Douchebag! I haven't heard that term in a long time! Makes me feel 15 again! But seriously, careful with the plies. Only do demi plies not grand plies. In the demi you keep your heels on the floor - a grand plie goes much lower and the heels lift up - it's also harder on the knees. Always remember, a plie is a stretch not a drop - stay tall and resist when bending, it will work your quads more. How's that for your first lesson!
But back to H's email. I'm not letting this one go without a response. Any suggestions? Oldtimers, I'd appreciate some input.
WOW!!!
Loved the e-mail, nice touch!
This is all so typical. He knows you're entitled to half of his retirement plus alimony, but if he can guilt you and make you feel badly for him, hey why waste the shot? This is where being your own best advocate comes in. You have a lot of years left to live and you will need that money. Money that is rightfully 50% yours!
I would imagine the difference in having your signature the first time around was because you were on the registration and you were cashing in stock. A retirement plan is a whole different thing. Even though you are the bene only his name is on the registration. Some company's are very lax with the spouses signature, but that is the law! Also as I said before he could have forged it. My ex freaked when I called him on it. Heck, I guess he forgot that I would know this stuff considering what I do for a living. I think he may have wondered just a bit if I was going to turn him in.
My best advice is to take everything that is rightfully yours. If you think that there may be another retirement account that you may not know about, have your lawyer suppeona his former company. No company wants to get tangled up in domestic issues, so they are very prompt in getting out the information requested.
dsm
SF, you're doing great! I don't know that his email warrants a response from you other than your atty will be handling everything for you.
Funny how your h is suddenly the injured party. Lol!
Gee, sucks to be him.
Just realized that I spelled subpeona wrong. I just get so darn mad when I read this stuff that I then forget to proof what I've written!!!!
Thanks again dncrm for posting your advice. I'll look into the suppeona/subpeona (I probably wouldn't have noticed the sp!)
One thought kept running through my mind today: "H is angry and he's under the false impression that I still care".
Hi Silverfox!
Love this!
H is angry and he's under the false impression that I still care".
Thats the way! Don't let your H play the victim - hes' not! Mine did the same.
You are entitled to the money and thats all there is to it.
I would just , in the most calmest voice I could muster ( and thats not easy w/ me!!) H, you will have to talk to my L- end of story.
Do not let him get to you SF, he may think he can bully you or guilt you or just whine you out of it, but stay strong, this is part your money too, nothing you are asking for that is not yours
Beside that, how are you doing? Any fun plans for the holidays?
I do wish you a wonderful Thanksgiving!
Thanks KarenMarie and Kimmie Lee for your encouragement!
Received the check from H today. Of course I analyzed everything about it.
First thing - he used my MAIDEN name on the envelope - nice touch H. Second he used a pen that was almost out of ink and I can barely read his signature.
Now get this - he used a Seabiscuit postage stamp. I loved that book and H knows it. He gave me the DVD for Xmas one year and he also gave me a riding hat and boots when I started lessons about 6 years ago. This stamp was not a coincidence.
He also made a Dec. - March notation at the bottom - implying as he said in his email that this would be my alimony through March. Alimony? We're not D yet dear H - it's your half of the mortgage and other joint bills.
My L is having a conference call with H's L tomorrow. We should then have more details about what's going on with this retirement fund funny business.
Now we know we shouldn't overanalyze because it's mindreading...
He also made a Dec. - March notation at the bottom - implying as he said in his email that this would be my alimony through March.
Oh HELL NO!!
yea what Pearl said! just cause he says it, dosnt make it so!
I'm trying to stay on the high road
though it's mighty hard. I decided to send a response to his pissy email:
"I received the check yesterday. Thank you. This is not alimony yet. This is Temporary Support and Maintenance and I will do what is within my rights to protect myself financially. I'm sorry you feel otherwise".
I wanted to go on record thanking him for sending the money and at the same time try to set him straight about continuing to call it alimony.
My L emailed saying he and H's L decided we should "probably meet for a settlement conference". Gee, you think? You mean the settlement conference you two were supposed to plan in September and then I never heard from you again? He said H's L has not talked with H yet about his retirement fund. So this big phone conference they had today must have lasted all but 5 minutes.
On a GAL note - I saw Cirque Du Soleil tonight - freaking awesome.
Can you light a fire under your L's ass to get things done? This just seems ridiculous that the settlement conference hasn't been scheduled and your bills keep coming in. And what about all the work that needs to be done on the house? I just don't want you to get stuck with all of this crap while H just walks away. Sigh.
Yay for Cirque du Soleil. I missed it when it was here but have seen a couple other of their shows.
I'm heading out of town tomorrow so I'll check back in when I'm home on 12/1.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Well the fire has been lit. Settlement conference is set for Dec. 11 at 10.00 (after I specifically told L after 3:00 would be better for me - go figure). But I don't care, I'll call in a sub, I want this done - or started as the case may be.
Thanks for remembering the house issues Pearl. Yes, it's huge. I wonder just what H plans to do about it? Should be quite enlightening.
I'm practicing my game face while saying "this is unacceptable to me".
Let the games begin
You will be glad when its all over SF,hard as that seems, its better then limbo
Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving?
Back in the States but severely jetlagged. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving!
Ok, time to practice, practice, practice. I know you understand the importance of putting in rehearsal time. Work on your game face and calm responses.
And a good outfit. Remember the confidence imparted by a kick ass ensemble.
On SNL last night - "Last Friday, Tiger Woods hit a tree and a bunch of ladies fell out".
Thanks Karen and Pearl. Hope you both had a super Thanksgiving too. I'm lucky to have a brother and sil who retired to a beautiful beach house. I've spent the last year of holidays there resting and walking the beach. Helps alot!
Yes, the kick ass ensemble. Right now the plan is dark, skinny leg jeans, 3 inch black suede ankle boots, white blouse, black vest, red jacket.
My students perform Tuesday night so I can't really concentrate on the settlement conference yet. Just as well.
Damn, damn, and double damn - the settlement conference is canceled. My L sent an email at 10:00 this morning - H's L is doing a murder trial and it will go into Friday.
Then I get this email from H about an hour ago:
I made it to the interviews but I didn't get the full time position at (name of college). Just another kick in the teeth. However, I will be teaching three sections of public speaking and developmental English at (name of college). Since my birth certificate is buried deep in my storage unit, it would be very helpful to have my passport for proof of citizenship. I believe I saw it laying out on one of the shelves in the back room. Could you bring it to Friday's meeting? For what it's worth, I won't be able to go to Florida for Xmas. I just had a $900 truck repair and I can't afford the trip nor risk not having transportation to work. I'm hoping things will be a little better in March but I just don't know
Thanks for your help. H
So his slack ass L's office has not bothered to tell him the meeting is off? Is this my job to tell him?
The storage unit he's talking about is in this state - 200 miles from where he is now. Yeah, when he moved to the Catbitch house he not only left almost all of his belongings here but put all of his books, etc, (and apparently his birth certificate) from his previous job in a storage unit in town.
I don't know where his passport is and I don't feel like looking for it. Nevermind that I just finished my middle school student dance showcase last night and I can barely see straight right now. Of course he wouldn't know any of this because he's still on Planet Me.
And that pathetic comment about not being able to go to Florida for Xmas because he can't afford it - playing for my sympathy
The only thing that's "kicking you in the teeth" dear H is your consequences.
*Groan*
Seriously, this sucks for you. How much more can this get dragged out? Forget I asked that.
Another play for sympathy--big fat WHATEVER.
I do think you should round up all of his stuff that's left at your house and either drop it off at his storage unit, ship it to him COD, or tell him it will be outside and he needs to pick it up before the trash collector does. When you're rested up of course!
Is there any indication of a rescheduled date?
Do you have some fun holiday plans to look forward to? I wish you were closer, you could come over for my Boxing Day party!
lol good one SF
I'm sorry about this, I know its frustrating, it seems to drag on longer then it should, which is totally insane- I had a few myself, thought it would never end, and I do believe , like I have said its the reason people celebrate their D, not for the loss of the M, but its finally over! closed!
It will end SF, I promise, patience.
Your doing great and you have a good sense of humor to get your through. ((( Hugs )))
Thanks girls. I sent an email to H early this mornig:
"My attorney says the meeting is canceled because your attorney is involved in a murder trial that will go into Friday. I looked for your passport and did not see it."
He replied:
"Thanks for looking. If you didn't see it right away then I probably already have it. As usual, I wasn't informed of the cancellation. That would have sucked to make the drive. Thank you for telling me."
He sounds fed up with his L doesn't he.
Well Pearl, I've thought of packing his things many times but I'm walking a fine line here with the house in the poor condition it's in. If I throw everything out it might appear that I'm saying I'll take take the house, fix it myself, and sell it and this is NOT what I want. I've been saddled with it long enough as it is. This is our major source of contention and what we really need to come to terms with - if we ever have the damn meeting.
But now it's almost Xmas break for me. I only have a few available days next week then I'll be visiting family until Jan. 1.
Guess Catbitch will now be spending her third Xmas in a row with a married man/boy.
I see your point about the house. Does your L have any advice in that area? Or is it all just waiting for the settlement conference at this point?
I'm happy to hear you'll be visiting family! Sounds like fun.
I hope Santa brings you a big fat settlement so you can get rid of this deadbeat once and for all. I just know that you will be happier and healthier without all this hanging over your head.
H's creditors call all the time, one in particular - I never answer the phone anymore - just let the machine pick up. Tonight I finally answered and gave them Catbitch's cell number - oops - I meant to give them H's number.
New settlement conference date is set for January 6. Yes, Pearl, L says to hang tight until a decision is made about the house. A big fat settlement from a man with no job? I'll be lucky to get some of his retirement. But me continuing to stay in this falling down house, 35 minutes from my job? This has to end. And I'm ready to stand my ground.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone!
SF
Just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas
next year is going to be brighter and easier one for you,i just know it!
take care
SF-
You are one strong, resilient lady. Wishes for a very Merry Christmas and beginning of a Stellar New Year!
Your h sounds pathetic. Wouldn't wanna be him!
You're doing good, Sweetie. Just bide your time, deep breath, keep on keepin' on.
SF, I laughed out loud when I read that you gave the creditor Catbitch's number.
Love it!!
Try to put him out of your mind for the holidays so you can enjoy them! He doesn't deserve any of your time or energy.
Are you going to look for a condo in town? I totally picture you as a city girl being near the arts scene.
Thanks everyone for the holiday wishes and support. I hope you all had some good times too. I can't believe school starts back up tomorrow. Where did the 2 weeks go? I bet there are some parents out there that are ready though!
The settlement conference is set for this Wed. Jan. 6. I'm gathering my paperwork - mostly everything I had for mediation but that was in March so things need to be updated.
In my notebook I wrote out a mantra that I will look at if I'm feeling pressured or emotional:
"H has no respect for you nor does he care about you - he does not have your well being at heart. Love, respect and take care of your own self. Do not agree to anything that you are unsure of and do not sign ANYTHING today."
I pray all goes well on Wed. you and I are about the same age....and I need someone my age to relate to....you have posted to me in the past....so if you don't mind I would like to see if you have a facebook account????
H has no respect for you nor does he care about you - he does not have your well being at heart. Love, respect and take care of your own self. Do not agree to anything that you are unsure of and do not sign ANYTHING today."
This is a great idea SF, its not easy to "wrangle" and get whats best for you, when you are dealing with a person you once loved and had devoted yourself to, having to swtich from , whats best for US to ME is not easy, I had a lot of probs w/ that too, thank goodness my father came with me a lot and wasnt about to let it happen!
you will be thankful in the end you did look out for you, as your stbx is doing the same- its not mean its fair
Good Luck to you Wed!
Excellent mantra Silver! Don't let your L push you to do anything either. I'm off to SF for a few days on Wed but will be thinking of you and will try to check in to see how it went.
Do you have the high heels picked out?
Thanks girls.
IRMAC - I am on FB. I haven't decided if I want to use it or start a separate account just for DB friends. I think some others here are doing that. I'll let you know.
Karen - Always good to hear from you and what you went through. I never, never, never thought I would be able to sit in front of my H and discuss a D. Now I'm almost looking forward to it? I found myself singing that 60's song this afternoon - "What goes up, must come down" (by....I can't remember who) - as I was writing some more notes to myself concerning the conference. Weird how it just popped into my head.
Pearl - You sure are the traveling girl. Let me know when you want to travel south. Of course I'll have to move first and set up a guest bedroom. I'm not looking for a condo but I do want an artsy house near downtown with a fenced yard. I have two dogs, one of which weighs 110 lbs.
Ah, the heels. Will 3 inch black suede ankle boots do? H is used to seeing me in either Danskos or sneakers. Not that he will notice or that I'll be wearing them for him.
SF-
You've got your head in a great place for what lies ahead. I hope I have it as together if/when I get to the same point!
Spinning Wheel-Blood Sweat and Tears..great song!
I'll be thinking strong-thriving-type thoughts for you on Wednesday! Proud of you!
Silver, I do still want to go South! I'm disappointed that I had to cancel my trip to Atlanta last summer with Tawnya and Amy and still want to go there. Still working on this year's travel plans so I'll let you know.
The kick ass heels are for you so you feel unstoppable! And yes, those sound like they'll do the trick.
Oh, and let me know what you decide about FB. You can always gmail me.
Thank you for your support kjensen - yes, Blood Sweat and Tears - kind of describes this journey too.
I'm a little anxious tonight and sad too. I'm also developing a head cold and cough. I better not wake up all puffy faced and sniffley - H will think I've been crying. Damn!
Pearl - let's meet in Hotlanta this summer!
Silver Fox ~ I wish you all the best for the settlement conference tomorrow.
Good Luck tomorrow Silverfox!
Let me just say first off that, hands down, without a shadow of a doubt, this board has helped me through the most devastating period of my life and moved me to a place of confidence, power, and control, without which I never would have been able to make it through the settlement conference today.
Phew! Mission accomplished. At least we're off to a good start anyway. I only had a few moments with my L before H and his L arrived and he said this - "I talked with H's L briefly this morning, just listen to what they have to say first - they really are anxious to settle".
Well, hells bells, that retirement fund that H was so aggressively protecting everytime I brought it up? He's offered to use it to pay off our joint debt, which let's just say is well over $20,000 - AND he'll pay the taxes and penalty fees.
The house issues are another matter. I made it clear that I do not want to stay here any longer than possible and I do not want to be responsible for repairs, showing, selling, etc. all by myself. There's still many decisions to be made about this but first we're bringing a contractor to look at the place for a better idea about where to start.
For the first time in my life I've seen a depressed person and it is my H. He looked miserable.
He's gained weight, hair was scraggly, puffy faced, disheveled clothes - he couldn't even bother to tuck his shirt tail in?
He sat slumped in his chair right across from me and made very little eye contact with me especially at the beginning. He talked very little. I had a folder with all kinds of paperwork in front of me - he had nothing. He's the one who wants the D.
It's been said on this site many times - he's not the man I married. He's not even the man who 2 years ago happily told me he was in love with someone else.
I've got to sleep on all this now. I'm still very concerned about being stuck with the house but my L said (when H and L were in another room) that getting the debt paid off is HUGE. I'll be debt free!
So, thank you everyone for your support, encouragement and positive thoughts. It worked - and so did my high heeled boots and skinny leg jeans.
Silver--good for you, girl.
Yes, there are many of us who have had the experience you describe, and there's nothing like it: a reclaiming of your power while at the same time seeing them sitting in the bottom of hole they have dug.
It is huge, that he will pay off the debt, while at the same time, take the hit for the taxes and penalties.
An agreement on the house will be tougher, and you may have to rethink the lines you have drawn. I, too, at first, said that I wasn't going to get the house in shape to sell and go through that by myself. The landscape changed, and I actually ended up staying there, assuming our mortgage (I forced him to agree to receiving no equity), doing the remodeling myself, and when it eventually sold, the equity was mine. Yeah, it was difficult, and there were times along the way that I wanted to be done, but compared to dealing with him constantly and his sad, depressed, couldn't think his way out of a paper bag self, it was much better to go it alone.
I'm not saying that will be the right course for you, I'm just saying, keep charting your own path, making decisions in your best long term interest, and when you're not sure, sit still...it will come to you.
You've been amazingly strong from the get-go and I am in awe of you. I have no doubt that this will all come out in the best possible way for you. Some friends and I were discussing this the other night: success is what you do with your failures. You go, girl...
Now wassup with this cold? I live in the South for a REASON!
besos,
BA
Silver, I'm glad to hear things went well today. Do sleep on it and give it some thought before responding. Who knows what the contractor will say, perhaps he can have it done with less time and/or money than you expect. Just remember that they always run over on both.
You deserve SOOOOO much better than that sorry sadsack!
Thanks for the pep talk BA. Yes the house issue is tough. He knew it would be when he dropped the first bomb and at the OW bomb he assured me that he told her "the house has to be taken care of first" - yet he's done nothing.
His sad face keeps coming back to haunt me since the conference. Many have talked about the eyes of the MLC'er - and they are indeed frightening. There was no emotion really - no anger or sadness - just a glassy, not there look. Guess I'd better do some reading about depression, as I have no knowledge of it what so ever.
It's quite a hole he's dug for himself. And there he is, sitting at the bottom of it with his arms folded and his bottom lip stuck out like a petulant teenager.
Yes, going it alone BA might be the choice for me.
Thanks Pearl - I looked at your new shoes! Excellent decision to buy them. Now, will you be wearing them with a new dress? Or not?
SF-
Just catching up with you- Sounds like things went well on Wednesday. You sound good and strong! Way to go!
It is sad to see our spouses broken down and depressed. Sounds like your STBX has a ways to go... And you have made it this far with flying colors! Have a wonderful weekend!
I looked at your new shoes! Excellent decision to buy them. Now, will you be wearing them with a new dress? Or not?
Of course! It's goldenrod, embroidered silk with 3/4 sleeves and a low scoop back. And I got a sequined clutch to go with, it has pops of the same blue. Everyone in the boutique asked where I was going to wear it and I finally remembered that I'm going to a couple weddings in June. So now I have a justification!
Met with a contractor today my L recommended. Nice, easy going guy that spent an hour looking around. He says clean the place up and put it on the market by March 1. Don't spend anything on the foundation, unfinished bathrooms. You never know, someone might buy it as is.
So, he can send some of his workers over to haul off junk, clean the vinyl siding, etc. for about $1,000+. In other words, everything H and I should have been doing for the past 3 years. But oh yeah, H was spending all his time and energy putting himself up the OW's butt.
I sent H an email to let him know about the appt. He writes - "Great, let me know how I can facilitate".
Facilitate? Oh, that's special. Just how is he going to facilitate from 200 miles away?
I was trying to explain the sitch to the contractor. He knows it's a D case. I was skirting around saying my H has "issues" and blah, blah, blah.
Contractor interrupts with "It's a mid-life crisis!"
Contractor interrupts with "It's a mid-life crisis!"
Isnt it funny how so many people who hear our ex ( stbx) symptoms say that?? I got it all the time
and recognize it in others now, including close friends
Hope all goes well with selling your house, I'll be doing the same soon-
Have a good rest of your week SF!
My Horoscope today:
Scorpio (10/23-11/21)
It's time for you to admit something: Your values have changed. What used to be important no longer matters. That means it's time to make some corresponding outward changes -- some big ones. Fortunately, you're more than ready, even if it means saying good-bye to people, things or ways of life that were once primary to you. Don't worry about it. You'll get through this the same way you get through everything: Bravely.
This Friday, Feb. 5, we're supposed to have a hearing and it could be the D day.
In the last 2 weeks I've met with a contractor, real estate agent, emailed my L almost daily, and sent one very firm, somewhat pissy, email to H thanking him for saddling me with the clean up and sale of the house after he sent another woe is me email stating that he has "limited time now and teaches five days a week".
I replied "I TEACH FIVE DAYS A WEEK TOO". Oh well, he was due. What's the point of DBing now anyway?
He wrote back that he would come during his 3 day spring break (it's 5 days, I checked the school's schedule) and he would "move the rest of my stuff and do what I can in the little time that I have".
Ah, how nice of him. And that's the first time that he's EVER acknowledged that he still has stuff here.
I have a response planned but haven't sent yet - "Your spring break is too late. I'm putting the house on the market by March 1. Please choose either the weekend of Feb. 12, 19, or 26 and let me know as soon as possible. You might want to rent a small U-Haul truck. Not only do you need to take your clothes and books but all of your grandmother's Xmas decorations, all of the boxes of seahells, and your chest of drawers/bedside table. Also, the garage has to be cleaned out as well as the boat. Please make arrangements to have it hauled off".
But there's still no agreement. The Ls are supposed to be working on it - I've yet to see a draft even. I'm contemplating asking for a postponement but not if it's going to be rescheduled another 6 months away.
How come I'M DOING ALL THE WORK BUT IT'S H THAT WANTS THE D?!
Sorry you are having to do all the work.......they want us out of their lives but we are left to clean up the mess......:(
Ack, sounds true to form for H.
Life's not fair. It seems to dump on people who can handle it. Refer back to that horoscope, it's so true.
If you don't hear back from H before the meeting on Friday I would make the arrangements to have his crap hauled away and add the associated costs to the settlement. I know he doesn't really have much money but it's the principle, damn it!
Try to focus on how much fun you'll have once you get rid of that hunk o' junk house and move to a fun condo in the city!
SF
Its so true to form for the MLC to want out yet let you do the work , amazing isnt it?
Personally DBing or not DBing I like that you " let him have it" he deserved it, you were just stating the truth!
and good on giving him the dates he can chose from, wth are they thinking? they should be catered to all the times? plleasseee
Your doing exceptional in my opinon
Your getting there, hold on!
Well, it looks like I'll be D tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. H finally responded in agreement to everything I asked for. I'm kind of numb right now. He left almost three years ago but it seems so sudden now. Everything was so last minute this week. I must have talked with and emailed my L 10 times today - all in between teaching my classes. Fun times.
(((Silver)))
The finality is different than the ongoing saga so I would expect you to have some kind of reaction. I hope this will allow you to move forward knowing that you did whatever you could to save the marriage. H has shown himself to be so unworthy of a woman like you. Get that ramshackle house fixed up and sold so you can get to the next chapter. It will be so much better!
Sending good thoughts your way. And I'll have a glass of wine for you if it will help.
The D was final two weeks ago - Feb 5. H, excuse me, xh got his precious D. I must admit that I'm taking it much, much harder than I thought I would. I've had a similar reaction as the bomb days - loss of appetite, sleeping very late on weekends, and just a draggy, listless feeling. Mostly grief and some disbelief.
The D day was interesting to say the least. The judge asked xh to stand first and asked him how long we had been married - xh studdered and finally said 21 years. Then the judge asked "have you made an honest and sincere effort to reconcile this marriage?" Yes sir H says. SAY WHAT???? I looked hard over at him but he didn't flinch. Then judge asked "is there anything the court can do to help reconcile this marriage?" No sir.
Great, now the judge is going to ask me the same thing. I was ready. I said - "Your honor, this is my H's divorce. I have no choice but to let him go." I guess he accepted that answer because he went on to the 2nd question - I looked over at H again and his L, dramatic pause, then said no sir.
I mean really, anything the court can do??? I wanted to say like what for instance - knock H in the head, lock OW up in a trunk and throw it in the ocean? Why did he ask me that and WHY DIDN'T MY L TELL ME HE WAS GOING TO ASK ME THAT?
If I had said, well MC would be a start seeing as I had no idea anything was wrong until H walked out, would that have delayed the D?
I'm now in the process of putting all xh's stuff in one room. I emailed first and told him to plan on coming March 6 to get it all. I nixed the other dates as I need more time to sort it all out. Sort out 21 years of M - his, mine, his, mine. What fun. He emailed back "I was going to email you tonight too". Yeah, right.
I suppose I'll move to Surviving the D forum now. MLC forum wasn't much help anyway. I hope those of you who have supported me will check in on me there too?!
I am sitting here wondering if this will be me in a few years from now....my husband and I began this journey 3 yrs ago. He is finally going to child support court on Wed. what I would pay to be a fly on the wall....I am so sorry you are feeling so sad and it hurts as it did when the bomb dropped.Any words of advice??? I am doing much better but I still have hope and I still pray for his return.....may God bless you for fighting and standing till the end...good luck to you....
(((Silver)))
You know, I was just thinking about you today. I'm sorry it has hit you hard. Can you get together with a good girlfriend to just have some fun and forget about it for a couple hours?
What was the final determination on the house? I just hate thinking that he's saddled you with that hunk of junk the he wanted. I think once you get out of there and can start over in a new place that will help you a lot.
I'll keep an eye out for you in Surviving.
(((( SF )))
I'm sorry you are hurting, it must of been very hard for you, wow, I have never heard of the judge asking those Q.
In my case we pretty much settled everything and didnt need to go into court, i had mixed feelings about that, relieved but yet, needed that closure - as much as it hurts now, I do think in time you may look back and be glad you did go- I can bet your ex was very uncomfortable and squirming in his shoes whilst answering those questions, maybe in his mlc mind they were "his"truth, but one day he may look back and wonder...
You are going to be ok ...more then ok , really you are! Its a process but its worth it to get to that other side- stronger and happier, this I know and this I wish and pray for you
Take care of yourelf, do something extra nice for you!
Silver, looked for you in Surviving but didn't see you there. Let us know when you're set up.
Thanks so much Irmac, Karen, and Pearl. I'm finished with sulking now and my energy is returning. Nothing like 100 middle school students to take your mind off things. They expect me to be smiling and supportive everyday. And goodness knows some of them are dealing with their own sad, dysfunctional families.
Yes Pearl I did get stuck with the house but the good news is xh has to pay for the clean up and repairs before I put it on the market. He also has to pay off our joint credit card bills. I'm even getting a little alimony ($300 a month) for two years. So I guess you could say I "won" in that respect - he was so anxious to D he agreed to anything.
Now the next hurdle. He's arriving this Saturday to move the rest of his stuff. First time to see each other since the D. I'm nervous about it but I bet not half as nervous as he will be. I'm going to be here when he arrives and will be polite and civil but then have plans to go see Avatar with a girlfriend and lunch/shopping. I hope he's gone when I get back.
I've spent the last 3 weekends separating all of our stuff and putting his stuff in one room. He shouldn't have any question as to what needs to be moved out.
Then he can be on his merry way and he and Catbitch can live happily ever after.
Please start a new thread as your thread is large. Large threads interfere with the mechanics of the board and slow it down.
Thanks.
Oh I'll be glad to start a new thread. I'm moving to Surviving the D!
Haven't made it over to Surviving quite yet.
Sgctxok, why do I have to start a new thread when I only have 25 pages?
So, The X came to town last weekend to move his LBS (left behind stuff). I greeted him at the door - well, he said hi and I just looked at him with a closed mouth smile. I was dressed up obviously ready to go out - pocketbook on coffee table, car keys in my hand. Ha! Probably my best DBing for what it's worth now.
He walked right to the back room asking "So how much stuff is it?" I thought, you're about to find out buddy. He saw all of it, books, albums (remember those?), magazines, clothes, stacked neatly and he immediately lost his cockiness.
"Wow, I really appreciate you doing this. I can see you put a lot of work into it". I looked him straight in the eyes and said "Yes, I did. I'm going out now, leave the dogs outside and call me when you're leaving."
I left so fast - didn't even give him time to blink.
Barely 3 hours later he left a message that he was leaving, would return tomorrow to finish up and he couldn't thank me enough for organizing everything - it made it so much easier to pack. Damn! Did I make it too easy for him? Oh well, the neatness was really more for my benefit than his. Wanted to make sure he didn't take anything "extra".
Repeat on Sunday. He shows up and I'm dressed and ready to leave. Very few words between us. Did he really think I was going to stay at home and watch him move half my life away?
Why didn't he put it all in a U-Haul like I had suggested in an earlier email? Why is he not taking it all back in one load to the Catbitch house 200 miles away like I assumed he would?
Well, turns out he has a storage unit here in town. He took it to the storage unit. And he's living in another state. Here I am heartsick over the idea of my former H assimilating all the stuff I've been around for 20 years into his new girlfriend's house with all of her stuff. But instead, for reasons only his crazy MLC mind knows, it's all sitting in a storage unit.
And he didn't finish. He'll be back either this weekend or next. Didn't quite get around to telling me when and I haven't heard from him other than a text on Sunday - "Thanks again"
Why is his stuff going into a storage unit? My best guess would be that there is "no room in the inn".
When I think of someone who has as many cats as the Catbitch, I think of cluttered squalor that brings to mind an episode of that show--"Hoarders".
--Silverado
(((Silver fox)))
Oh, I can so relate, my h did the same, although I wasn't as good as you, I just stacked it in a big cupboard. He had no idea how much stuff was there and didn't even bring boxes to pack it. He was astounded, I just wondered how he could not know?! He too was very thankful to me for organising it and for all the effort it had taken me. It was like a bit of realisation hit.
They are in total la la land!
I was a little green about assimilating the stuff with ow's. But then on the plus side it will always be a reminder of you that won't go away.
You did really well to just leave him to it. Are you going to go out next time or stay around?
Thank you for posting Silverado and JCJ. No room at the inn indeed. More like no room at the cat house
Since my last post xh came back one more time to finish up but not without a pathetic try at asking for another date than I had requested:
"I don't think there is much hope you will be willing to compromise further on the plans for this weekend but I have to at least try. One of our cats was diagnosed with stomach cancer this morning. She has battled two previous bouts of cancer during the last year (including having to have her eyes removed) but she is not a candidate for further surgery. I'm not sure how long she has but it is days rather than weeks. If it were possible for me to come during the two days I get for Easter next week (April 1 and 2) it would make a big difference. I understand if you are unwilling to delay further but I had to ask."
When I read "our cats" I saw RED. The proverbial final straw for me. I thought of a response almost immediately but waited 24 hours just to be sure:
"Wow - "our cats". She's indoctrinated you well. Gives new meaning to the phrase pussy whipped.
April 1 and 2 will not work for me. Please plan to come this weekend as planned."
His reply:
"Fine. I will be there this weekend. Thanks for understanding."
Sorry. I had to respond one more time:
"I've been understanding (and walked over) for three years. I'm done."
No answer to this one. Good. He arrived, we talked briefly and I left like last time.
Haven't heard from him since. Oh yeah, he left a mess for me to clean up. I guess that was his passive aggressive response.
The hair on the back of my head stands on end whenever I hear the WE and OUR words.......I know what you mean sista!!!!
He left a mess? Of course. Grr. FWIW, I think you handled it much better than I would have.
Have you had guys working on the place to get it ready to sell? I just want you out of there and in a cute condo downtown!