Here is my story --
Married for 11 years, together for 14, my h began to change in 2006. He had always been very active in sports but started taking it to a higher level, golfing all spring, summer and fall while I took care of the house (no kids)and playing hockey every Friday and Sunday all fall and winter. He also snowboards most Saturdays through the winter. When I complained he told me I should find my own interests so that I wouldn't be pissed off at him. A couple of times I was at the end of my rope and suggested we split but he always insisted that he loved me, wanted to me married to me, and would do better. He never did.
After quitting smoking (01) and drinking (02/03) because of a promotion that required him to be in early and alert, he started both again and hid the smoking from me. Initially I thought the drinking was just because he wanted to fit in better with his colleagues who go out a lot with clients, as well as the guys he plays hockey and golf with. I didn't find out about the smoking until late 07.
His outside activities started to get out of hand with him staying out until 3:30 in the morning on Friday nights and often that late during the week. He would wake me up coming in and had no regard for the fact that I had to get up for work in the morning or that I was worried about him. I felt like I had a 21 year old roommate.
He completely closed himself off emotionally though he has always been emotionally distant anyway due to childhood issues. He was molested by his father (as were all the children), although he does not remember anything, and his mother was aware of it.
We discussed divorce at the beginning of 08 and for the first time he agreed but then after some discussion we decided to go to counselling. We went for a few sessions but it was a disaster because he made it look like he rarely went out and told the C that I never got over the death of my brother in 99 and that was the reason I was unhappy. Regardless, I still tried to save the marriage and whenever I asked him, he told me we made the right decision and that he was happy and loved me. We bought furniture for our new home and were discussing retirement plans (not really close to retirement though).
His behaviour started to revert to late nights during the week again in mid-May and on Jun 2 I told him that we were through after he came home late and said "I'm confused and don't know what I want." It appeared he couldn't say he wanted a divorce so he just continued to treat me badly until I had no choice but to end the marriage. He even called me the next morning to ask if we were now separated and seemed upset.
Whenever he came to the house his mood was different, he would say: I wanted to enjoy my life but still be married to you, I can't see staying married; I didn't think I could live without you; i am afraid I am going to regret this in a few months or years; I don't understand what happened, we were so good together; we were so happy last summer; we have a great relationship; i fell out of love with you a year and a half ago; we don't work; we grew apart; I am looking forward to new relationships; it will be exciting after 14 years with the same person; we have different interests; i want to see what i can accomplish without you; the last two weeks together, i was miserable; i am happy without you; i want to golf guilt free, i want to play hockey four times a week; i am having a good time with my hockey buddies; i could never talk to you because you are so judgemental; i didn't think you were really unhappy - just pissed off; i was so bored; you buried me - never letting me do the things I wanted to do. He even said once that he thinks he is having a MLC but when I asked him if he read about it he said no, but figures he is textbook.
When I wanted to talk about "us" he would bolt out the door. Told me that he can't talk to me because his emotions are blocked. Usually answered "I don't know" to any questions. He never wanted to talk to me on the phone and didn't assist me at all with the sale of the house.
After our separation I discovered that during our so-called attempt at saving our marriage he was spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars getting lap dances after hockey on Fridays (which I found out in Aug 08) as well as having an physical affair with a woman he claims he met in a coffee shop in Dec 07 (which I found out Jan 09). He says he wasn't looking for an affair, didn't plan an affair, but it happens to couples all the time and they had a "real connection."
I had found out in November that he was living with someone (same woman) but he told me that he met her in July and moved in with her at the end of Sept. When I asked him how he could do that he told me that he is really really happy and that she is a lot of fun. Told me that everything was f**ked up and he doesn't want to talk about it. When I pressed, he refused to elaborate. Told me that he didn't think about me when he moved in with her because I am no longer part of his life. Then he told me that he couldn't stand sex with me (when we were working on our marriage) and that he only felt trapped. Told me that I am so cold he could not tell me the marriage was over.
When I had proof that the relationship started before our separation and called to confront him, he told me that he didn't leave because he wanted our marriage to work. Then he told me that he told OW that he would leave me. Then he told me that he wished he had ended the marriage years ago. Told me that he doesn't miss me or our relationship. Told me that he told his family that he started "dating" her in Dec 07 and they support him and do not judge him because he is so happy.
So now I am almost at 9 months separation and the divorce should be final by end of April. I filed on the grounds of Adultery and he has admitted so I don't have to wait the full year.
My question for you veterans is:
Is this a MLC or does he just not want to be married to me anymore?
My reasons for wondering are that he has made no attempt to contact me since we finalized the separation agreement in Jan and he rarely contacted me before that. If he is depressed or confused or whatever, why would he move in with someone right away? Is it possible that he really is just happy and I am wasting my time thinking about him. He has certainly said very out of character and horrible things to me but I am not sure about the anger referred to in the stages of MLC.
I don't feel like our marriage is fixable and am trying to get on with my life but want answers so that I can put this behind me. I still love him but I don't think I can get over the pain.
Welcome, Kai!
I'm very sorry for what you've gone through. I think you've come to the right place, though. There's a lot of information here about MLC. You might want to start with "Midlife for Dummies," a humorous (but incredibly accurate) template for what the MLCer must do to mess with his spouse's mind. I believe your H has, indeed, managed to get out whole chunks of the "script" and acquitted himself in a textbook manner!
From what you describe, it does sound like an MLC. But then, an MLC is really just a period of deep depression, so he's also exhibiting many depresssive signs. Do you know if there was some sort of trigger in 2006--something to do with his abusive father perhaps, or the death of someone close to him, or some other major life event?
You ask about the anger stage. In my experience, the first stage (denial) was a time of the MLCer closing off emotionally, denying he had emotions even. "I don't know" became the answer to just about every question. This was a very passive-agressive period, in which he would block everything until I became upset or angry, and then quietly state, "I can't talk to you if you're crying/yelling."
After that, everything made him angry (but nothing was his fault). His boss and co-workers were stupid. The news was aggravating. The neighbours. Other drivers. His family. MY family. And how could he not get upset if I did something that annoyed him? At this point, the MLCer often demonstrates a nasty streak that comes as a bit of a surprise. It's like an outward manifestation of the nasty voice they hear internally, telling them they're no good, etc.
You ask why someone who was depressed or confused would move in immediately with another person. It's for the same reason they try to bury themselves in golf, snowboarding, alcohol, etc--the "high" of being with someone new, like the adrenaline rush of snowboarding or the mellowing influence of alcohol, makes them temporarily feel happy. It allows them to postpone doing the hard work of actually dealing with their depression that gnaws away at them for years until they finally face it. Also, having an OP allows them to tell themselves that every problem they ever had was the spouse's fault, and their lives will be wonderful now. It doesn't last, of course, but they create a sort of self-brainwashing state (known as "the fog") which rewrites the past and creates wonderful promises for the future.
I hope that (partly) answers some of your questions. There's a lot of information here, and suggestions for good books you could read to help you understand why your life has been upended, and how you can move on.
Thanks for your reply Cyrena.
His father died but believe it or not I cannot remember what year. I think maybe 2005. They were estranged after his father admitted to molesting him and the rest of the children. My h sent him an email asking him how he could have done what he did when we were told that he was sick but his father never responded. There is a special place in Hell for that man and for h's mother as well as far as I am concerned.
What appears to be more of a trigger is he got a promotion at work in 2000 and started getting very substantial bonuses at end of 2005. He does not have the education one would expect for the amount of money that he earned the last three years of our marriage and is always under stress about losing the job. Almost like he feels he is going to be "found out."
My h never raised his voice in 14 years together. Not once. I used to think that was good. Not anymore.
The only displays of anger I saw before we split was his frustration with the work that had to be done in the old house we bought (at his insistence). I asked him to paint the powder room one day. All he had to do was paint as I had done all the taping prep and he didn't speak all day. Sulking like a child really. He also got a little mad when I told him I needed help weeding the garden (it was huge).
I noticed that he was REALLY sick of the type of music we always listened too, constantly changing the station and saying "I'm so sick of that!" Very out of character.
He grew his hair a fair bit longer over the past few years and just before we split he started taking hair-loss pills (without telling me) because he started to lose his hair and was really concerned. Now I know why. He already had a pierced ear but doesn't wear an earring and also already had the tattoos. It's not about getting older in his case, I don't believe, as he is young (41) and looks a lot younger.
He is a very reserved, mild-mannered person. Hated any type of confrontation. Maybe he just can't get angry.
He didn't show any frustration with our families and seems to have reconnected a bit with his since our split. It seems that the only thing that has changed in his life is me.
Kai, do you know how old your H was during the abuse? I ask because I too was molested as a child (though not by my parents, thank God). I didn't consciously remember any details of the abuse until, after going through counselling and being married for years, suddenly, while having sex, an image floated into my mind. I could feel my mind crashing it shut after a split second. It happened a few more times, and I realized it's all there in my memory, it's just that my mind refuses to access it. But it's as though, as long as I didn't deal with the anger, pain, etc, it was very hard to "focus" on my life ... as if a huge part of my energy wasn't accessible. Once I finally forgave my abuser, I changed, and felt a lot more confident about myself. Even so, I've read that when the abuser dies (which mine hasn't yet) there are huge repercussions. If your H has not dealt with his abuse (compounded by his mother's complicity), it's a massive trigger for depression.
As for whether it's an MLC--from the evidence I've gathered, they often strike men who have deep unresolved issues, who were "silenced" as children, who had abusive parents, who are "Nice Guys" that never learned to deal with their anger or emotions, who have very low self-esteem--which seems consistent with the picture you're painting? Another factor can be that they've missed a stage in their normal development, and need the chance for a do-over (of, say, adolescent rebellion).
You say your H is only 41. Mine was 39 when his mother died and his MLC began. He, too, dived into sports, new haircut, new (younger) music. He said things like, "I've had to be responsible all my life; now it's time for me." He started connecting emotionally with other women. It wasn't so much a stated fear of aging, but of missing out on things in life.
To me, your H's confusion, rewriting of your history, etc, sound like MLC. You'll soon know if it really is one, as he'll find that changing the people and accessories in his life still don't make him happy, and he'll look more and more miserable and "alien."
In the meantime, are you taking care of yourself?
Take care,
Cyrena
I don't think his father ever said how old they were when he started on them but from what we know, it seems like it started pre-teen for all of them (2 boys, 2 girls). His brother remembers a bit. One sister remembers more and she has some fairly serious emotional issues. My h (the youngest) and the eldest sister remember nothing.
H has always refused to really talk about it and adamantly refused counselling. His stance is "If I can't remember, why risk therapy that makes me remember and causes me issues." "I've dealt with it and moved on." He really hasn't, of course, and I told him the night I told him our marriage was over that he needed to get help to deal with the fact that his mother abandoned him. I knew nothing about MLCs at that time but knew he was running from something. I just wish he hadn't decided to run from me.
I am sorry to hear about your own abuse. The older I get the more shocked I am at the number of victims of childhood sexual abuse. It's just so unimaginable. I grew up with an alcoholic father so I have some idea of what a disfunctional family is, and the damage it causes children, but know that it doesn't get much worse than sexual abuse.
I am taking care of myself, thank you. I go to the gym and I eat a lot because I've lost a lot of weight and was already pretty thin. I've got about 4 pounds to go to get back to my pre-separation weight. Can't sleep past 4:00 a.m. but from what I've read, that appears to be fairly normal. Thinking about taking a night course to keep busy. All my friends are married with children so it's hard to find people to spend time with so I'm mostly alone with the cats.
You may want to consider that you will not get the answers you are hoping for or any explanation. It really won't change anything. Once someone moves on, there is no reason to spend any time or effort trying to figure out the why's or try to explain yourself. I can only speak from the other side of the coin. Sounds to me like he is done and has moved on. There is no reason for him to contact you or respond - especially since you don't have kids together.
My 2 cents is see a personal C to help you thru your feelings and to assist you in moving to the next stage of your life.
JMO
You very well may be right Stillhope but, if as you say, it sounds like he is done and has moved on, why was I the one who had to end the marriage? Why did he keep telling me that he wanted to be married to me while he was cheating with an OW as well as lapdancers? Why the non-stop lies, both before the separation and after?
From what I have read the MLCer frequently comes out of the "fog" and regrets what they have left behind. I guess I am having a hard time accepting that he has just shut the door to his past to easily.
When we talked about divorce in Jan08, I had every reason to believe that we would split amiably and with as little hurt to each other as possible. That is the person I married -- not this person who as inflicted as much pain and confusion as possible onto the person he loved.
Stillhope may have a point--it's quite possible your H will never give you any answers. However, I also know what it's like to be the sort of person who has to reach an understanding of the situation before she can move on. Knowledge is empowering, and it makes the world seem a much less random place if you can come to some sort of understanding of why your marriage failed, etc. In my case, I read everything I could for months, until I came to a place where I felt compassion for my H's pain.
My H came out of his fog after 4 years, but only because of an excellent C. Some men, I understand, can take years longer than that. For some, the act of actually confronting their fears is so terrifying that they run for years. There's also the chemical component of depression to be considered: as their seratonin levels go down, depressed men exhibit certain behaviours at certain levels, and the seratonin rush they get from OW, lapdancers, etc, may be as much pain relief as they seek for some time. So, each person's timeline cannot be predicted; it may depend on the level of damage they've sustained.
So, the person you married is in there somewhere. But you're probably the person he loved and trusted the most in his life, so as long as he hates himself, he's not going to be able to offer you anything.
In the end, I see my H's MLC as having been inevitable, given the work he needed to do on himself to "grow up." And agonizing though it was, it forced me to do much needed work on myself, too. Can you see some sort of (backwards) positive like that for yourself as well?
I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for. I ended up reading so much that I'm not sure where it was all located, but if you have some specific questions, maybe I can point you in a helpful direction.
Good for you for putting on weight--the affair diet is a killer! What kind of classes are you thinking of taking?
Thanks Cyrena,
I fear my h will never realize what he has done because I can't imagine him seeking any help. He's pretty stubborn.
I also don't expect him to contact me and I have not contacted him since we finalized the separation agreement and don't plan to in the future. I am just trying to find peace with what has happened. I am not sure I will ever find a positive in it however, as I feel we had a very good marriage and miss him (the old him) very much.
I have read a lot of stuff on this site as well as 40/60 and it does help me realize that this is about him and not me but sometimes I start to doubt myself and wonder if I could have done something differently. I am a mostly logical person as opposed to emotional and this bizarre, crazy, contradictory situation has really thrown me for a loop. If someone told me a similar story two years ago, I would have thought they were nuts.
I am going to take a Paralegal course. I negotiated the settlement with h without any help from my $550/hr attorney and it reignited an interest I always had in Law. Not sure if I would pursue a career in the field but I think it might be interesting.
I feel for you. It's horrible to realize that somebody who you really loved, and devoted years to, and thought of as your ideal mate, could walk away with so few regrets. But you've stated that he's a good man inside, so it sounds as though all his confusion really is a sign that he does have regrets and better impulses ... he just can't access them consistently (or for long) at the moment.
Good for you for doing all the reading! I found that the descriptions and wild stories about MLC, in the end, painted a fairly consistent picture of how the MLCer behaved, and I came to the conclusion that I couldn't have done anything to prevent my H's crisis. All I could have done differently was change how I responded to it; it took me a long time to learn to be friendly and detached. He was near the end of replay before I figured that one out! But I don't think that my being like that any earlier would have changed his journey--he really was lost in the fog. You're familiar with the stages; where would you say your H is?
You said your father was an alcoholic--do you mind if I ask whether you've done counselling for that?
Hey, I'm impressed you negotiated that settlement by yourself! The Paralegal course sounds very interesting and should certainly keep you busy.
I believe he is in the 3rd or Replay stage. I will never know if and when he moves to another stage because we will have no further contact. Given his past issues and his personality, he seems the type to keep spinning.
No. Never did counselling in the past. I come from a family of five children and each of us has different issues from growing up in our household. It's really quite interesting. The women (three of us) talk about it quite a bit and I am certainly congizant of my own self-esteem and confidence issues which I can trace back to my dad.
I read one of those "Adult Children of Alcoholics" books once but honestly, those self-help type things aren't for me. It just seemed to be a lot of horrible stories, each one worse than the other, that made me grateful that my dad appeared to be a better than average drunk.
I grew up in a rural community where everyone was very inter-twined and I would take my father over any of the fine upstanding and sober neighbourhood fathers anyday. He was sometimes verbally abusive and could be very cruel but he, despite what demons were biting him, adored his wife and children and did his best under some very trying financial circumstances.
There is no doubt that my past played a big part in my attaction to my h and I have always know that. Didn't see a MLC coming though! My dad and my h have a few personality traits in common as well -- some good, some not so good -- but my father would NEVER have abandoned his wife and/or children.
Sisters--aren't they wonderful to talk to, especially about family of origin matters ... I've sure spent a lot of time with mine, analysing the past. It sounds as though it must have been difficult, growing up with your dad, but good that you can appreciate the positives in him.
My own father had an MLC himself, though it wasn't until my H had his that I recognized what had been going on back then. Even so, I never would have guessed my H would take the same route.
Hi again,
Sorry, but I got interrupted there last time. I was thinking about patterns in our lives, how we recreate the ones that seem familiar to us--often, even, as we think we're trying to break free of patterns/situations that we recognize as unhealthy. And how in our lives we seem to end up cycling through certain lessons; if we don't resolve them the first time, they present themselves in a new way. In my case, I dealt as best as I could when I was younger with the sexual abuse, but I still saw myself as a victim, and couldn't forgive my abuser for that. A week after I finished working through my forgiveness of the abuser, I found out about my H's EA. It reopened old wounds: once again a person that I trusted and loved was cruelly putting his own needs above mine. Instantly, I knew I would be able to forgive him down the line, if appropriate, because I had mastered that process. But there were other issues (like my needs not being considered, my desire for control, and stuff about love and security and self-esteem) that were triggered by both situations, yet not dealt with the first time. I feel I made a lot of progress on them.
Meanwhile, my H had never dealt with his mother's physical and verbal abuse of him as a child. His family tended to ignore her bad behaviour, excusing it because of her medical condition, and focused on her many excellent qualities. But everything he hadn't dealt with resurfaced in his relationship with his bullying boss. Now that he's through his MLC, he's largely resolved that pattern.
I know I feel more fully alive now than I did before the whole MLC experience. I'm sure lots of people here wouldn't agree with me, but I do see something positive in the fact that MLCers are desperately trying to fix something in themselves that is broken. Unfortunately, like a disconsolate toddler, they trash the toyroom instead of recognizing they just wanted a hug....
Have you ever read The Glass Castle, by Jeannette Walls? It's an extreme case of growing up with an alcoholic dad, but written with such love for his "good parts." What you said about all the horrible stories out there made me think of it.
It sounds as though you have a pretty good handle on your situation, and on your expectations. You say you expect your H to "keep spinning," but it does seem that most eventually do acknowledge regret, even if it's too little too late.
This is just a curious question, but you state that your father would never have abandonned his family. Looking in from the outside, it would appear that disappearing into the bottle would feel like a kind of abandonment? Like he was often not really "there" for you?
I hope you had a good weekend with the cats! How many of them are there? And how is the weight-gain program going--what yummy snacks have you enjoyed lately?
Hi,
I don't believe my h is trying to fix anything. Perhaps he will if he emerges from the "fog" but at the moment he seems to be running. He has always been the ignore it and it will go away type person. He will never confront anyone who has done him wrong. He will never confront anyone about anything.
When I asked him in Nov how he could be living with someone already (unaware that he had been having an affair with her) he said "everything was f**ked up and I don't want to talk about it." He just kept repeating that or something similar when I tried to get him to explain. It was like speaking with a three year old! It doesn't seem to me that he is making rational decisions.
And then there is the financial irresponsibility --
After we separated last June, I discovered that he had spent over $34,000 on our joint line of credit in five months and I would be responsible 50%. After we split, he than maxed out another joint line of credit to $12,000, which I had access to, so that I could not get any funds.
When we exchanged financial statements, I discovered that he had also spent $8400 on his personal line of credit.
In August, just before our first collaborative divorce meeting, he charged an additional $40,000 to our joint line of credit. I assumed that he had bought a condo or something but it turned out to be a margin call. I knew that he was responsible for any post-separation amounts so I wasn't concerned but found out that HE didn't know that! He was trying to add to my debt after we had separated!!
I was at my lawyer's office yesterday and got my copy of his financial disclosure which I didn't have a chance to review because my L had both copies. It shows that he was in debt the $40,000 (margin call) in January 08 -- one month after receiving a $330,000 bonus!!
So by the end of May 08 he (we) were in debt $82,400 spent on bad invesments, lap dances and the OW. All within five months. I had no idea. I never asked to see the statements for the investment accounts nor his visa bills nor anything else and he didn't ask to see mine. We were married and trusted each other. We split household expenses for the most part even though he made seven times what I earn, because HE was SAVING for our retirement.
This past January, the last time we spoke, he asked me how I sleep at night after getting half of our equity and a small spousal settlement.
It's all too much really.
As for my father, I didn't ever think of his drinking as abandonment. He drank A LOT, so I knew the drunk father better than the sober father.
As we were out in the country we were dependant on cars to get anywhere and my father was the only father who took the kids to any events. My brothers were the only boys who played organized hockey. He took us skiing in the winter and swimming in the summer and took as many of the neighbourhood kids as he could fit along. When we were older he drove us to our friends homes and picked us up, no matter how late it was. He was drinking and driving but someone managed to never kill anyone, thankfully!
He worked for a unionized company and had a lot of vacation time and always took his vacation so that he would be home when we were home, much to our chagrin most of the time!
We discussed politics, news and books at the dinner table and were made to read rather than watch TV most of the time.
Now I'm not trying to pretend that he was a fantastic father because, obviously, the drinking was a huge issue but the older I get the more forgiving I am and more understanding of what was likely causing his unhappiness. I am sorry that he died when I was still relatively young (21) because I would have liked to have known him with some maturity on my side.
Weekend was good. Hope yours was too. I have two cats -- Max is 15 pounds and Quigley is 23 pounds -- both male. I will be moving to a condo in May and went to measure, etc. on Saturday and discovered that the king bed I was hoping to buy will not fit comfortably. Very disappointing as I really need a bigger bed for all three of us!
I am at 125 lbs in the morning and about 127 lbs at night which is pretty good. I am 5'9" so I like to be at about 130. I eat pound cake every night before bed and sometimes a beer as well although they don't really go well together. I was drinking Ensure for a while but just can't stand the taste so I switched to beer.
I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Well, I guess your H's erratic spending pretty much answers the question of whether this is an MLC or not! Blowing that much money in so short a time is a pretty good indicator of it. And of the fact his brain is pretty much disconnected, or in teenaged la-la land somewhere, where money isn't an issue. It's good that you separated your finances before it got any worse.
I hear you on the lopsidedness of their thinking, that nothing is too much for them, while anything is too much for you. My H spent the MLC years constantly buying "toys" to fill his void, yet nastily stating that if we divorced he'd hide all his money, even stop working so he didn't have to pay child support--with absolutely no consideration of where that would leave his own kids!
Your dad sounds like a really caring man. Funny, my parents were really big on the reading instead of watching TV issue as well. As a child I felt a bit of a cultural misfit when other kids talked about shows and characters and commercials, but now I'm grateful for all the time it left to read, and dream, and write stories, and play outdoors....
My weekend was good, thanks. I'm chuckling about the cats & the king-sized bed, thinking they're probably like kids: take even the tiniest little baby into your bed, and in the dark it seems to grow 10 sizes, so that no matter how you lay you're being pushed off your bed and kicked in the stomach. Will you settle for a queen instead?
Wow, you must have been dangerously skinny there for a while! I'm 5'8" and got down to about 125 during the worst of the MLC, but you're just back UP to that weight. Beer and pound cake, huh--what we won't do for our health! Actually, now that my H is recovered I notice it's easier for me to put the weight back on, so I have to be more careful--no more late-night snacking here. I quite like being a size 6!!
I think you said your house needed some work and had a pretty big garden. Are you still there until May? And how will Max & Quigley feel about the move? Are they outdoor cats who play in your garden? And will you miss the garden yourself when you move to the condo? How will it feel to leave your marital home?
C.
Yup the money thing sort of clinches it doesn't it? What a strange strange disorder or disease or whatever. I was fairly certain but a few counsellors managed to put doubt in my mind and then I start turning it back to myself and what I might have done to drive him away.
They both said there is no such thing as a MLC and that he was always this way but it became exaggerated when he suddenly started making more money that he ever thought possible. I believe the change in his status contributed, but I am no idiot and KNOW I was not married to the person he is now.
He is now living in government assisted housing after moving in with the woman with whom he was having an affair.
Does your h remember saying those things to you when he was in the middle of the MLC? I hear they forget or block out the nasty things that they said. My h always had a terrible memory anyway so I know I will never get an apology, even if he does recover.
I commend you for being able to put this behind you and save your marriage. It's funny but I would have been able to get past the affair but I will never get past the lapdances and the lies and the lies and the lies.
I already have a queen and will get another one for the new place. It has two bedrooms and I want a new bed for myself that h has never been in. One of the cats insists on using me as his pillow and gets mad if I shove him off so maybe a king would not have mattered. Unfortunately he is a cute as a button and gets away with murder.
Every month during the separation I learned new, very painful, information and when he finally admitted to the affair this past Jan, I dropped to 119. Not pretty. Had to buy a bunch of size 0-2 pants!
We sold the house about three weeks after we separated and I moved out last Sept. I threw h out at the beginning of June. I didn't want to stay there and we had only moved in the fall before so it was not yet "home." Luckily we sold just before the financial crisis began and while prices have not dropped a lot in Canada, we made money because of the timing. I had started on a beautiful wildflower type garden and will miss that.
I moved into an apartment while I tried to get my bearings and as luck would have it, h moved in with OW about a block away from me a few weeks later. She already lived there. In a city this size, it was quite the shock when I saw him going into that place one night when I was on my way home and knew immediately that he was living with someone.
I bought the condo at the beginning of Jan and although I am glad to have something, I am not enthusiastic about it if you know what I mean. The cats are strictly indoor and they adjust very quickly so I am not worried.
A lot of Cs don't believe in such a thing as an MLC, do they? I did some research on the internet and was pretty sure that was what my H was going through, but most info was written by men (largely) who'd experienced it. It was such a relief to find this site, and that essay by MWD in which she expressed that she'd come to believe MLCs existed, and often happened to guys who'd previously been quite upstanding. By that point my H had been in his crisis for 3 years, and I'd been wondering to myself how I'd never noticed during our earlier years that he was a monster of selfishness. But now that he's come out of the fog he's not cold, selfish, avoidant, workaholic, etc anymore, so I believe this is his true personality. I dunno where the rest of it came from. Depression? self-hatred? the negative aspects of his personality in full control? I also read somewhere that when someone dies their loved ones can sometimes take on aspects of their personality, so perhaps he was becoming the most wounding version of his mom?
Incidentally, my H's C also said there was no such thing as an MLC. However, that didn't stop him from getting H unentangled from it. I wasn't sure if he said that because he didn't want it to become an "excuse" for bad behaviour, or, more likely, if he was just approaching the same symptoms from a different perspective.
My H has always had a dreadful memory himself! The other day he was talking about "our terrible year." I pointed out that the terrible time had lasted for 4.5 years. He was quite amazed. He has no clear memory of things that sometimes still feel pretty gutting to me. If I bring up anything (which I don't do often), he admits to a very hazy memory of feeling very angry at the kids all the time, or of wanting to run away, etc, but he's quite surprised to hear the specific things he said.
Another thing "they" tell you is that your H did register what you said, on some level. For much of the MLC period, nothing I said seemed to penetrate. But recently he's told me many times how much he regrets hurting me and how he beats himself up for it. Now that his morality has returned, he has trouble accepting how he behaved. I guess that makes it a lot easier to (almost) trust him--there was a long period there when I didn't see how I could, after all those lies and omissions. But he really isn't that person any more.
I can understand the new bed for your new start. How horrible that he moved in so close to you--is he still there, or is the govt-assisted housing further away? Isn't it amazing how he could go from great job/great wife/great house to his present circumstances so quickly. Yet I'm surprised how many times I see the same story on these boards. And I'm really torn between anger at these guys who shred the lives of their loved ones, and sadness for their self-destructive misery.
The wildflower garden sounded lovely, but I'm sure a condo's better for now. And the cats sound like great companions. Does your condo have a balcony where you can put out some planters in the summer?
I hope you're enjoying that pound cake tonight....
A lot of counsellors and a lot of people don't believe in a MLC and I guess unless they experience it, there is no convincing them. It's frustrating but I am starting to get used to it and have given up on IC.
How old are your kids and how do you feel they dealt with the changes in your h during his MLC?
It wasn't until my h was gone that I realized that he was having a MLC and we have not really spoken often since he left. When he told me about two weeks after he moved out, that he thinks he's having a MLC and I told him that I agreed, he immediately shut down any further conversation.
H was never a talker; introverted to the extreme. Last Spring I had him do the online Meyers-Briggs Personality Test and he came out an extrovert. When I told him that he was supposed to answer how he IS and not how he would LIKE to be, he got pissed.
A couple of weeks later we went to a cocktail party at our old neighbours (he insisted) and he stood beside me all night, occasionally running his hand up and down my back and didn't converse with anyone. When one guest asked us if we had kids, h replied "no." I thought that was pretty funny because he has a son from a very brief shotgun marriage when he was 20. He also paid a company in California $1,000 for three telephone conversations to sure his anxiety about having to update his co-workers and a few executives on what he has been working on. Extrovert indeed!
I've rarely called him and emailed him only when it was related to the house or the divorce, with a few regretable exceptions. When I emailed him when I discovered that he was living with someone because I was so shocked and upset, he sent me a nasty reply about me not loving him and him not loving me and never admitted that he was living with someone.
I've tried very hard to keep things business-like but admit sometimes I've asked him questions which gave him the opportunity to hurt me. Now that everything is settled we have no reason to ever contact each other again. So hard to believe that I will never speak with him again.
Yes, he is still living near me, as far as I know. I don't know anything about this woman or their relationship so I cannot give an opinion on why he has made these choices. He says he is really really happy so I guess I should believe him.
Yes the condo has a balcony so I will try to grow a few things.
My H really resisted the idea he was having an MLC, although after several years he began to wonder if that's what it was. Part of the reason, in my opinion, was that for the longest time he wanted to believe his "woe is me" feelings were unique. As he started seeing what he'd done, however, it was a relief to know he wasn't alone....
Your stories about the wanna-be extrovert are pretty funny. H, know thyself indeed!
Yes, they always have to say they're uber-happy, but don't believe it for a second! And if you should ever happen to bump into him, remember to exude such an air of contentment with your life that he's forced to rethink that "she drags me down" brainwashing he's no doubt saturated himself in. Plus I see he managed to combine the passive-aggressive "you never loved me" with the mandatory "I never loved you" in a winning combo to punish you for noticing his living situation--full marks for him!
I still feel really bad about how the MLC affected our oldest. He was 7 when his grandma died and the MLC began. He'd always been an unusually sensitive child, but also very talkative and impulsive. For several years, my H was very hard on him, very critical. My S always overreacts to criticism by being very hard on himself, so he really felt as though he were "stupid," "couldn't do anything right," etc. When he expressed this, I'd try to explain his dad was stressed and taking it out on him. Sometimes I'd try to stop my H, but that just made him lash out at me as well for doing a rotten job of bringing the kids up.
For a period of about 2 years, during Replay, my H was away "for work" all week, and when he came home he'd lay on the sofa (the central area in our small home) trying to sleep, for hours. I tried to keep the kids quiet, or downstairs, but it was never quiet enough, and then he'd be very disagreeable about how inconsiderate we all were. After that came news of the OW, and I was in tears a lot, and my H having all sorts of angry outbursts, and my S kept asking whether we were getting a divorce. Now we set a very good example of discussing instead of arguing, of parenting together, of hugging & kissing in front of the kids lots, and I hope that makes up for a lot of the past. I just worry that H's negative judgemental voice has been embedded in my S's head, as my H's mom's voice was embedded in H....
My D was only 1 when the MLC began. She's very quiet, and a really Daddy's girl. She managed to charm H into playing with her through much of those years when he just wanted to run away from all of us. There were times when H was cycling when he'd sit down to play and be totally unable to do it, though--and the alien look in his eyes was horrible. I'm not so worried about D, but I wonder if it made her a bit more of a manipulator, trying to force H to pay attention to her?
I was wondering about your mom. Is she still alive? How did she cope with your father's drinking? Are/were you close to her?
My h emailed me this afternoon. He wrote "Hi. I am sorry to have to email you but can you send me my resume. I got laid off today and don't have a copy."
My heart was pounding out of my chest and I started to cry. I feel so bad for him. Regardless of the economy, he completely lucked into that job and he will never ever find a position paying even close to what he was earning. Throw in the recession and he has a tough road ahead, especially given his debt; he had to get a loan or credit line to pay my settlement as well as the bad investments I already told you about.
I replied "Sorry. I deleted all of the files I had for you last June." I, of course, created his resume and kept it fairly up-to-date but I really did delete it last June. A little presumptuous that he would assume I would have kept his documents. That's all I wrote. He has treated me so horribly over the past year, I couldn't bring myself to tell him I am sorry or wish him luck.
It's funny but I hoped that he would lose his job or quit when we were together because we were happier when he made $35,000/year. He would scoff at me whenever I asked him to quit.
I wonder if this will help bring him out of the MLC or send him spinning even more? I also wonder if the woman he was cheating on me with will still consider him a catch. I don't know what her motivation was for having a sexual relationship with someone she knew was married but if it was money, she is going to be very disappointed.
The similarities of everyone in MLC is astounding isn't it? We all think we're special and we all think we're different and handle things differently but we are all really pretty similar, regardless of race, religion or economic status.
I am sure you handled things well with your kids and even though your h was being cruel for a few years, it is likely better for your son than if your h had left the home. Kids are so resiliant and seven is very young. I agree that it is highly unlikely that your daughter will remember anything and she likely helped to keep him a little bit grounded at the worst time.
My mom is alive and will be 87 in June. She unfortunately has Alzheimers and has (we think) for quite a few years now. It's such a gradual disease that I'm afraid we didn't catch on for a while and they become very good at pretending there is nothing wrong.
She is in a retirement home and on a waiting list for a nursing home because she has wandered a few times. The four of us take turns staying with her so she is rarely alone but can't realistically keep that up for years.
She is in good physical health but is not happy. It's very hard to see her like that and as bad as it sounds I hope she dies of a heart attack rather than continue to decline until she is bedridden. She sometimes says she wants to die and I know that she means it. A horrible disease.
How she dealt with my father was by pretending that it wasn't happening. Not the healthiest way to deal with anything but that is how it was. She went back to work when I was about five and that might be the reason we didn't freeze or starve to death because, as you can imagine, my father often came home after spending the majority of his pay. I think she lost her love for him long before he died but she quit work when he got cancer and took care of him for the two years he lived. She is a very strong woman and I admire her but wish she had been a little more affectionate with us kids.
I get the feeling this is going to be a sleepless night again. Good thing I am taking tomorrow off work.
Oh, wow, Kai, I'm really sorry you got a shock like that. Strangely enough, when I was typing yesterday how your H had started off with a good job, wife and house, I was thinking how badly he'd traded down for an OW & assisted housing, and wondering whether the job would be the next to go.... But I feel rather sorry for him too, even though he's created so much of his mess, because it's going to be another huge hit to his self-esteem. I'm voting on spinning awhile longer, if you're accepting votes. But the reality check should help to propel him a little further on the MLC journey.
Did you sleep all right? Those days of bombings/new revelations are the worst, with so many conflicting emotions churning through, and our minds racing. And what I hated most about them was they shoved the nebulous figure of the OW right in the forefront, when the last thing I wanted was to waste so much energy on her just because H was obsessed. And if your OW was interested in H's money, it looks like Karma is alive and well!
I'm also sorry to hear about your mom--how stressful for you and your siblings. Does she recognize you all still and remember the good times? My grandmother developed Alzheimer's and my mom used to visit her daily, and it took so much out of her, so I know what you mean that it would be better if her body released her before she gets a lot worse. 87 is pretty impressive, though--good genes in your family! By the sound of it, all/most of your siblings live close enough to spend time with her, so it's a blessing you can all share the burden.
So you've got today off; any plans? I hope Max is being particularly cute to cheer you up. Take care, Cyrena
Thanks Cyrena,
Given h works in the financial industry and the economy, I am not surprised that he lost his job and that was the reason I pushed so hard for the separation agreement/settlement to get done. I was sure that if he was going to lose his job it would be in the first quarter. He was stalling but could only stall for so long or risk arbitration where he may have had to pay a lot more. Even so I was still shocked and feel badly for him. He must be very scared right now.
At the same time I am very grateful that I was able to convince him that a lump sum was the way to go rather than monthly support so that we could cut all ties immediately. If it was monthly support I would have received only one month and now he would be able to apply for support from me!
I think you are right that this is not going to be a wake up call in any way but I suppose there are no wake up calls in MLC but rather they need to work their way through it.
I slept until my usual 4:00 a.m. and this time, the thought of him in bed with someone else was not my first thought when I awoke, but rather his new situation. Maybe there will be a silver lining to this for me. You're right about the relevations. Since our split they have come monthly, almost like clockwork, so my mind has not stopped racing for a long long time now. As they say, this too shall pass.
Mom recognizes us almost all the time and if she doesn't, she just pretends she know who we are. She remembers less and less of the recent past but remembers her childhood like it was yesterday. She remembers the house us kids grew up in and that's where she is going when she leaves the retirement home. So far we've been lucky and found her fairly quickly. I actually caught her once when I was on my way home from work.
It was raining here all morning and now the temperature is dropping to below freezing so I am camped out in front of the TV.
Have a good weekend if I don't hear from you.
Thanks, Kai, my weekend was nice (though too short). I tend not to post over the weekend, because I'm spending time with the family (plus I'd rather my H never know about this site). I hope you and the cats made out okay? And that you kept up the eating and looking after yourself....
Oh, that's wretched, waking up at 4. I remember so many months of that, feeling so wide awake (and "back in it") I couldn't even bear to lie in bed any longer. It does, as you say, get better over time, but then time seems to slow down, too, when our lives turn upside down. Perhaps the time change next week will mean you get an extra hour of sleep? Not that that theory ever really works for my kids!
Oh, your poor mom! Thank goodness you know where she's headed when she escapes, but how sad for her. Is your childhood home still standing, if she was to make it there? I guess it's a blessing she's spending most of her mental time back in happier eras, though that's scant comfort.
It's funny how the MLCer's issues first seem to manifest in his connection to his job. Things started to go wrong for us, too, when my H accepted a promotion that meant he'd have to travel/be at an office in another city regularly. I soon began to hate that job, because he became unable to put his family before it. His self-esteem became caught up in pleasing his (never satisfied) bosses. He couldn't say no to them, and he couldn't seem to hear my complaints that our family life was suffering.
Once the MLC began, he used work as an excuse to spend all his nights in the other city, going out drinking, meeting with the OW, and other Replay activities. He also hated work, complained a lot about it, and wasn't a very productive employee for a few years. Then, once he hit Depression and Withdrawal, he buried himself in work again. I think it saved him, by giving him a focus, a reason to get out of bed when he just wanted to smash his car into a tree, a sense that he was accomplishing something, and a distraction from his demons. Now, post MLC, he's reached the point I really wanted him to be at in the first place: he puts his family before his job, stands up to his bosses sometimes (and recognizes how manipulative they are), genuinely regrets any (infrequent) overnights away, and keeps up a dialogue with me about work.
All that to say, I feel bad for your ex, too, because he's lost his most valuable prop in getting through the time ahead. Many guys do seem to identify themselves through their jobs, so if he's never going to get such a good one again....
You sure handled dividing up the finances wisely--you're a natural for that Paralegal course! What a relief to be immune from his job loss. Was he relatively careful with money before he went alien? Also, was he able to be a typical teenager the first time round? You mentioned once him being like a 21-year old roommate; do you think that's the period in his life he's doing over?
Has the freezing weather ended over there? I hope the sun is shining and that your day is going well. Any nice plans for the week?
Hi,
It's good that you don't post over the weekend and I totally agree about your h not knowing about it. He would likely either think it very silly or spend a lot of his time trying to figure out which poster you are.
My childhood home is still standing but it's about 30 miles from here. Mom usually just walks in one direction until she gets tired and then goes into a drug store and straight to the pharmacist for help. She wears a bracelet so the police have her "profile" as well as our contact info. The cold here is obviously a huge issue during the winter months.
My h's job has definitely caused our marriage nothing but trouble and while I don't think it was a trigger for his MLC, it certainly enabled his bad behaviour. He always played hockey a couple of times per week and I had no issue with him going out for beers afterwards but the old h never went to strip bars for lapdances. He always golfed whenever he could afford to but this job enabled him to buy a very expensive membership which he then had to justify by golfing every sat and sun, rain or sun.
When he started drinking again in 2006 and going out with clients and/or coworkers I could not really object. I remember telling the counsellor last Feb that the more he went out the more likely it was that he would cheat on me. Of course, fool that I am, he already was. Already setting the pattern of being out most nights during the week made it very easy to hide the affair. It also made it easy for him to tell me that he was bored with our life because I never wanted to go out. The fact that he was always out with other people, in situations where I could not join in, seemed to escape him.
I think he liked the job because it was in a high-profile area of the financial industry, although he was under a lot of stress. The stress was mostly, to my mind, self-induced because he had what my sister calls "imposter syndrome" in that he didn't think he really deserved it. He certainly liked the money and would not listen to me when I tried to tell him that his health and happiness were more important. It also seemed to make him a little arrogant and entitled and I was not happy about that.
I think he was a typical teenager in spite of his family circumstances. He appeared to have a lot of friends and was successful with the girls although initially shy.
He had a child when he was 21 and the marriage ended because he was unfaithful, although I am quite sure that it would have ended anyway because they did not love each other. That said, it is no excuse for his behaviour and he always expressed remorse that he did that. Funny because he has no remorse for cheating on me.
He took his son's mother to court for visitation knowing that it meant he would be paying child support for the next 18 years. She had never tried to get support and likely would not have because that meant a reduction in government assistance. As a result, h lived pretty much pay-to-pay through his twenties until he moved in with me at 27. At that time, I asked him to only pay half the rent and I covered the rest of our expenses. I think that his inability to really enjoy his twenties, as most young men do, might have been a problem. I certainly did my best, spending a lot of money going out for dinner/drinks most nights during the week as well as weekends that we didn't have his son, but I guess it's not the same as when you're a single guy.
So while he always appeared to be financially responsible and is actually a little cheap, maybe it was only because he had no money. Now he has no money again because this divorce and his bad choices have left him with a substantial debt. It's all very sad and unnecessary.
It is -28 Celius with the windchill here today. That's -18ish Fahrenheit. Russian fur hat, down-filled coat and sheepskin boots for me today!
You state that if my H knew about this site he'd spend a lot of time trying to figure out which poster I was--do you mean you don't think he'd recognize himself right away from my descriptions? LOL. In that way it's a good thing they all become pod people reading from a (lousy) script, huh?
So, if your H had a child by 21, he was married by the time he was 19 or 20? Did they just get married because of the pregnancy? It's good your H did take some responsibility for his S, and regretted his first affair, because it reveals his conscience. That suggests he will regret this period in his life as well, once he straightens out his head. On the other hand, ending 2 marriages with affairs does suggest where he tends to run when he's not happy. How was he different with you than in his first marriage--did he recognize the difference?
I read on these boards that the MLCer gets stuck in the stage/stages they weren't allowed to complete when younger. So it seems your H would have to deal with the pre-teen time of abuse as well as his 20's? My H channelled being a pre-schooler sometimes, and his C pegged him at 13/14 for the rest of it. So I'm familiar with the angry and irrational teenaged thinking & behaviour, but not sure how an MLCer redoing his 20s acts differently. Did you come up with any info on that during your reading?
If you moved in together at 27, did you have earlier relationships to compare yours to? Have you thought about what you'd like any future relationships to look like? For me, finally accepting my H was involved in an EA made me reconsider how I'd been in our M, and what I wanted to change in myself and in any future R (with H or not), and it was a transformative process. Have you identified things you'd like to change?
Oooh, minus 28C yesterday. I hope that wind has stopped today! It sounds like you've got the outdoor gear to handle it, but it's not like you'd be lingering outdoors for any reason. I hope the summers out there amply make up for the winters! And how much longer till spring comes to your area? Of course, I'm making assumptions because I'm not a winter person; I hate to be cold. I hate to shovel snow. And I love being able to go for walks regularly. But I know there are lots of people whose favourite season is winter.
Take care.
Pod people is a great description and would be really funny if it wasn't so pathetic. As time goes on, I hope I am able to look back at this time and maybe laugh a little at how absurdly he has behaved. I've always had a dry sense of humour.
I don't know if I will ever get over how they read from the same script. It's shocking and even more shocking that the general medical community still doesn't believe in a MLC.
He married at 21 and the baby was born 6 months later so he was still 21. Yes, they only got married because of the pregnancy but the pregnancy was intentional, even though they had only been seeing each other for two months. She wanted to receive government assistance rather than work and having a baby is a good way to increase monthly assistance here in Canada. They were not in love with each other but both sets of parents insisted they marry. I guess h's father wanted to ensure he would have access to any children later.
We got married because we loved each other and were very very good together. We just fit so comfortably from the very beginning and I NEVER would have believed we would end up here. Of course, everyone thinks that when they are in a happy relationship.
I haven't found anything about how a MLCer might redo his/her twenties but I would imagine spending lots of time drinking with the boys and going to strip bars might be part of it. H didn't have any male friends throughout our marriage and I didn't really know why but he started almost desperately looking for guys to hang out with in the last couple of years. When we first moved into the last house in Sept 07, he was really disappointed that one of the neighbours, who was in our age range, wasn't friendlier towards him. I thought it odd at the time that is was bothering him as, really we hadn't had a chance to get to know them at all yet, but didn't really think too much about it.
He told me when I ended it that he was having a good time with his hockey buddies and having a good time with his golf buddies and wants to play hockey 4 times a week and golf guilt free, and go out drinking, etc. So he wanted to be single. That doesn't explain the quick leap into a live-in commitment with the OW but a lot does not make sense.
I had a few long term relationships (and lots of short term!!) before h and the common denominator is that I took care of all of them. That's what I am going to try to change if I ever meet someone else. I don't know why I behave this way; I knew from a fairly young age that I did not want children but somehow always played the motherly type in my romantic relationships. Never again.
It has warmed up to -24C today!
Thanks again for always taking the time to give me stuff to think about. I guess I am not getting any input from other posters because I am not "divorce busting" but rather "divorcing" and perhaps they believe I am bad luck.
You know, one day you will laugh about it, but it does take a long time. Just hang onto your sense of humour, because you'll be needing it to get through!
One of my fears when I got to the point I was sure my H and I were finished was, what if I just ended up with ANOTHER guy who was about to have a MLC, but was a bit more of a late-bloomer? I mean, did I need to come up with some kind of a checklist for the types of traumas he'd undergone, whether his parents were still alive/about to die and whether he was honest with himself about their relationship, probing questions about whether the formative years had actually been formative, what the likelihood of him becoming depressed was, etc--and I felt really scared, because from a lot of the stories you read, signs of the upcoming MLC storm are not always obvious! And even if the guy had done the MLC thing, what if he hadn't completed that task fully?
I agree that you'd think the medical community would have reached more of a consensus, especially considering how many people in MLC are being treated. I believe my H was not unusual in that, during his MLC, he was in constant pain, feared the pains were signs of serious medical problems, and had his doctor run a number of expensive tests.
Meanwhile, as my H came out of the tunnel, he was really irritated by the way our culture treats MLCs, reducing them to jokes about overweight balding guys who trade in their families for 20-year old girls and sportscars. He wondered why nobody is ever warned that this might be upcoming if/when they face certain issues, and the pain and depression the MLCer experiences are ignored, and even doctors aren't equipped to help out. He felt marginalized as well as all alone....
From what I've learned, it's difficult for the victims of sexual abuse to make friends. Being betrayed by a male figure would make it that much harder for guys, I would think. I can remember, a few years back, feeling a desperate need for close female friendship. I recognize now that what I wanted was an over-the-top Hollywood vision of friendship; what I really needed was to come to terms with myself. I guess your H thought he would be happy "if only" he changed certain variables in his life, but being single demands a certain amount of introspection...making it easier to live with OW.
How is your H's relationship with his S, do you know? Is his confusion extending to their time together? Though I guess his S has his own life by now. How did your caretaking tendancies mesh with having this child in your life (from about the age of 6)?
Have you thought about what a non-mothering relationship would look like? It's good that you know what you'd like to change.
Can you actually FEEL a 4-degree improvement in temperature when it's still that cold? Brrrrrrrr.
I don't think anyone feels you're bad luck! Posters still at the beginning of their MLC bombings, desperate to find a way to save their marriages, are in a somewhat different boat than you, though, and it's easiest to connect with people whose stories seem the most similar. Also, those who post on a lot of other people's threads are the ones who get the most responses. People are obviously reading along, though, so I'm sure they'll chime in if anything strikes a chord, or if they want to suggest a new direction.
Are you feeling better after last week's news?
I agree with the fears of meeting another man pre-MLC or in MLC. I am most afraid of getting involved with someone who has treated his x wife the way my h treated me. I am sure if anyone asks he says "we grew apart" and if anyone ever says that to me I am running.
Your h sounds like he is in a good place now and can really look back at what has happened and be honest about it. I would imagine a lot come back and make reparations but don't ever really try to understand a MLC and the effect it had on them mentally and physically as well as really understand the damage they have done.
We used to get h's s every other weekend from age 6 to about 13 or so. H did his best, I think, but didn't exactly look forward to it. He really likes to do what HE wants to do and always wanted to play sports. His s wanted to play video games and watch TV. They are very different, s being a lot like his mother.
I tried to stay out of their relationship because I didn't want s to resent me and my presence during the time he had with his father. I certainly didn't try to mother him. We did become closer as he got older as I find it easier to relate to teens.
H told me after we separated that he was reconnecting with his family. They are all somewhat distant from each other. I assume he means his s as well. I have read that a lot of men in MLC push their entire family away. In my h's case, because they were already away, I guess he is trying to get them back.
I have no idea how to not take care of a man I am involved with without coming across as uncaring. I didn't smother anyone, just did the housecleaning, laundry, took care of them when they were sick, helped pick out their clothes (I'm sorry I will miss h's wardrobe when he is left to his own choices), etc. I didn't tell them what to do as that's not really my style. I don't like being told what to do and don't do it to others. My sister says that was a mistake -- I gave h so much freedom that he created a life without me.
No, you can't tell the difference when it's that cold. Should be warmer tomorrow.
Whenever I think about h losing his job, my stomach flips a little. I should get over it though because I guarantee you he would not give me a second thought if our situation was reversed. He has made it perfectly clear that he has no thoughts of me at all.
being single demands a certain amount of introspection...making it easier to live with OW.
I think you have hit on exactly what H meant last Nov when I asked him how he could be living with someone already and he said "Everything was all f**ked up and I don't want to talk about it." He had initially moved into a small furnished condo while we waited for the house to close. I guess he couldn't handle his thoughts when he got into bed alone at night. Coward.
Coward indeed! I guess that's why he's in MLC, though--I understand that all men approaching middle age go through a process where they have to grieve the ways in which their lives didn't live up to their expectations, and come to terms with who they really are. After this they are wiser, gentler, changed. The men who are terrified to confront themselves are the ones who turn a period of mild depression into a crisis. But what a rotton reason to start a relationship!
I hear you on the "we grew apart" line. Just think what a position of power you're in, now that you know which lines are danger signals! Wouldn't it be nice to find a guy who could give you an honest assessment of his mistakes in his previous relationship? Though, this site does give you hope that such guys do exist.
I'm sure your H's wardrobe will suffer from not having your input! What you say about how you care for your guy is interesting; did you ever read "The 5 Love Languages?" This book posits that there are 5 ways of showing or receiving love. I'm guessing yours would be "Acts of Service." The trick is to find out what makes your partner feel loved, as well as to ensure that he gives you what you need. So theoretically, how to care for someone has to be tailored to the person. I'm guessing if your H wasn't good at giving his S the kind of attention he preferred, he wasn't so good at picking up on love language clues?
You say you gave your H a lot of freedom. Did you let him know when you would have preferred to spend time with him instead of him doing his own thing? How would you have preferred things to have been, instead of him creating a life without you? (Not that I think your sister is completely right, because I don't think there was anything I could have done or said to stop my H from doing the same thing, once he was on the MLC path--his urge to avoid us & change things around was just too strong. I just wish I could have been less angry when he kept drifting further away--for my own sake.)
So, what's the weather brought for you today--a balmy -15C or something?
No, I haven't read that book but have heard it mentioned a few times. Maybe I'll see if I can find it.
The only large issue we had in our marriage before MLC was that he didn't help me around the house. I did the laundry every Thurs night while he played hockey, cleaned while he was out with his son, etc. I would do this for about six months waiting for him to do his share just once and then I would confront him. He would try for a week or so to help and then slip back into his pattern. It was very frustrating for me because I really didn't want to be that type of figure in the relationship.
When MLC hit, my looking after him and the house caused him to lose respect for me so I will never fall into that pattern again, if I ever live with someone.
I did tell h that I wanted us to do things together and that is why we took up tennis. I also started golfing a lot more than I normally would. H didn't make much effort to do things that I would like to do however, and when he did, I always knew that he really didn't want to be there and it would only make me anxious, especially in the last two years of our marriage.
H is very quiet, EXTREMELY quiet, and sporting activities means he doesn't have to participate in conversations. I am a big talker so I more than made up for it but again, in the last two years, I had begun to stop trying so hard because he seemed so BORED with me. I didn't get angry though, just sad and confused.
H tried to accommodate his s as much as possible and show interest but wasn't very good at faking it. H has always been self-centered and I have always told him that. It certainly became exaggerated to the extreme during the MLC.
As you said, once the MLC starts there is NOTHING we can do to turn things around. I still can't believe what my h has done to his life.
The Love Languages book is good for a quick read-through not only because it helps you identify what makes you feel loved in a relationship, but it also is helpful in understanding why certain relationships within a family work better than others. One of my BILs cannot get along with his dad--yet if you look at it, both are offering the other what THEY like in a relationship, they're just frustrated that what they're getting back is what the OTHER person needs, which they're pretty much dismissing. Often where a parent has a "favourite" child, it's really because they both share the same language.
Ooooh, I know what you mean about feeling your H was totally bored with you. That sure shrivelled up my self-confidence. Then, to make matters worse, it became clear that any little thing the OW said was endlessly fascinating and exotic, by contrast. That's what hurt the most: my H stopped taking any interest in anything I had to say, but was constantly on the cell with the OW.
The whole housework thing is a really tricky area. When we were first married, I expected my H to do his share, and we did much of it together, and I taught him how to cook some things, etc. But after having kids, I was home more, and he'd look after the kids so I could get stuff done, and gradually he did most of the outside stuff while I looked after the house. Then came the MLC he became more and more selfish: his primary contribution was complaining about how I'd done things, or that his favourite shirt wasn't washed yet.... It drove me crazy that when we were guests elsewhere he'd help with the dishes, etc, but never lift a finger at home. I felt like a drudge, and disliked myself for getting into this position, but couldn't get through to him. When we'd met, he'd admired me for my mind, and now he couldn't even tell I had one.
His MLC made him repulsively selfish (though he'd always been that way to a degree), but I'm happy to report that he's a better guy now. He notices when I'm doing housework and helps out, and we're back to making meals together sometimes. We try to do the yard work together. I'm not sure he's ever cleaned a toilet, but I'm happy with where we're at. I think, if I ever get into another relationship, I wouldn't move in together without a clear agreement of how the housework was going to be split.
The disadvantage of this board is that the WAS always comes across at his worst. I can see a lot of negatives in your H, esp. after the MLC intensified his selfcentredness and unwillingness to engage with you. I'm having a harder time seeing his positive qualities. And I'm wondering, are they still the sort of qualities you'd want in a mate, or would you really prefer someone who, I don't know, argues with you? Does more couples activities? Have you thought what sorts of activities you might enjoy?
I hope Operation Weight Gain is still progressing steadily, and you have nice plans for the weekend!
When we first started living together, our agreement was that he would do the cooking and the laundry. He never did the laundry and wasn't much of a cook. I am not either so I was delighted when he said he would do the cooking because he liked it.
Turns out he thought he might like it but discovered that he didn't. He would often get me to make a large batch of something (ie: pasta sauce) then feed me pasta every night for 3 or 4 nights and pat himself on the back for making dinner. At one point he started giving me toast and pickles for nights on end. No -- not joking. Even his s would ask me if I would make his scrambled eggs or the Kraft Dinner because I did it better than h! It didn't bother me though. Things like that made me laugh.
I realize that you are only reading negative things but as most of our talk is about his MLC, it is negative. When he was the man I married prior to 2006, I was very happy and content even if his lack of help around the house really pissed me off.
You wrote that your h would help when you were guests elsewhere so at least he recognized that something needed to be done. I can't even say that! My h even thought that I was anal because I cleaned before guests came over to the house and I once caught him secretly asking his SIL and sister if they cleaned before they had the family over. They thought he was nuts!
He was a terrible slob and after he "cleaned" his bathroom I would wait until he was out and do it again with bleach. He would come home and see the difference and say "thanks baby but stay out of my bathroom!"
His slovenly habits aside, he made me laugh and I loved that. I liked that he was active and not a couch potato. I liked that he liked my company and thought I was smart. I liked that he wasn't too kissy-huggy because I don't like to be mauled too much. I liked that he wasn't jealous and we trusted each other completely. I loved that we took my mother somewhere every summer and he never complained or even rolled his eyes when she came out of her hotel room without her shoes. I loved that no matter what I looked like when I rolled out of bed with the flu or something he still thought I was beautiful. I loved that I was completely confident in our future together.
Still working on the weight. Got my final STD test result today -- no HPV! -- and am going to celebrate with apple pie.
First of all, good for you for looking after yourself with the STD testing, and hurray you're fine! I hope the apple pie was yummy!!
Mmmmmm--nights of toast and pickles ... gotta still be in love to put up with that! I liked the bit where he served up your batch cooking and figured he'd made dinner, too.
Okay, you've painted some good pictures of happy interactions, and I can see your (pre-MLC) H more clearly now. It really is shocking how they lose all those loveable qualities, isn't it? You mentioned that he is a very quiet guy; would you say that was able to express his emotions prior to 2006, or did he hold too much in? In many cases the MLCer does seem to be an emotionally stunted guy who isn't sufficiently aware of his emotions, and certainly is afraid to talk about them. My H used to claim he was a "very simple guy," implying he had far fewer emotional issues to deal with than others. I felt sure he was wrong ... and then I found out how very wrong! Now, when he's upset, instead of shutting down or pretending, he forces himself to talk about it, and he's not very good at it yet, but it means so much to me. (Thank you, C.) The whole never learning how to be emotionally open does seem to be a theme with these guys.
You might have some insight onto a question of mine. You say you don't like to be mauled too much. I'm sort of the same, though H is a mauler and I've learned to kind of like it. In my case, I start to cringe and get tense when other people have hug-fests, but I can't tell how much of that is to do with the abuse, or what I would have been like before that. My D has concerned me for a while, though, because she has never liked to be touched. She accepts a quick hug & kiss before bed, but if it goes on for more than a few seconds, she literally pushes us away. If I were to hurt myself, she might pat my shoulder, but that's about as touchy-feely as she gets. Her friends are always holding hands with each other, or putting arms around each other, but if they try it with her she quietly breaks out of it as quickly as possible. At the same time, she's very social and loves to be with friends. Sometimes I wonder how she'll ever stand being in a relationship with anyone when she's so hands-off, and wonder why she's always been this way. I guess I just want you to say, stop worrying mom, she sounds just fine to me!
I hope you have a sunny & relaxing weekend.
Thanks. The test result was a huge relief! I am now thinking about getting the HPV vaccination. There have been no studies for my age group and I would have to pay for it but it certainly won't cause me any harm.
No, h was not able to express his emotions prior to MLC and that's why I didn't realize what serious trouble we were in until it was too late. Quiet to the extreme and emotionally distant is the way he always was. I didn't think it was going to be a problem long-term and I loved him so I let him be and didn't often try to drag things out of him.
What changed in 2006 was I just felt that he didn't want to spend time with me, felt him moving away from me, so I would ask him on occasion if he wanted to stay with me and he would always insist that everything was fine and he loved me. It was a subtle change so I was able to put it out of my head most of the time. Given what has happened, it would not have made any difference if I had pushed him. He is doing what he thinks he needs to do.
All of our life together, when something that should have upset him didn't I would ask him why and he would always say that he's just an easy-going guy and doesn't hold grudges. Sounds very similar to your h doesn't it? It's very good that your h recognizes now how destructive it is and makes the effort to talk, even though it is hard for him and likely always will be.
A few months after h and I split we were talking on the phone and he was trying to justify the lapdancing (I didn't know about the affair yet) and he said he was in a dark place. I asked him why he couldn't have just talked to me and he said "I don't talk." So he would rather throw our relationship away then talk to me and try to change what he believed was making him unhappy.
I have never liked to be mauled and neither does anyone else in my family. Although H was the same way and he suggested after we split that we both need to be with someone who is more affectionate. Then he thought about it for a few minutes and said it would probably just start to irritate him. I am sure his ow is more affectionate than I am because that is obviously who he was referring to, unknown to me. I wonder how long before it starts getting to him.
My late brother has two daughters and one was exactly the same way as your daughter and the other loved to be hugged. I don't think you should link it to the abuse as I believe it really is just the way some people are. Your daughter sounds like she has taken after you and as long as she is happy to spend time with her friends and they seek her out, I would not worry. As far as future romantic relationships, I had no shortage of men in my life and none ever complained.
Enjoy your weekend.
Well, at least your H recognized that he "didn't talk." After his mother died, mine just said he had nothing to talk about, or that there was something wrong with me so that he couldn't talk to me--it's taken until now for him to recognize that he's always buried the issues he really needed to discuss. In his case, I think part of it was that his mom would pry for information, and then broadcast it (she did like her drama!), so he felt he needed to maintain some privacy from her. It really hurt, though, that he was unconsciously punishing me for his mother's behaviour!! And then, what did he seek out in an OW? Someone who thrived on drama, and was energized by the mixture of guilt and adoration he felt towards her.
Like yours, my H insisted everything was fine in our relationship and he loved me and our life together ... yet all the while I could feel him slipping further and further away. I think the problem is that the beginning MLCer feels such a sense of unhappiness with his life. At first he recognizes it's nothing to do with his marriage, yet as time passes and he feels more miserable (and critical and blaming), he decides that's what it must be. Then it takes such an excruciatingly long time before he accepts that the problem was never the marriage, but himself. This isn't to say that our marriage was perfect. I know that we both let past issues negatively affect our behaviour, and at the bomb I identified a number of ways I knew I needed to change myself and any relationship I was in. But, as you say, if only we could have talked about improving our relationship, instead of H unilaterally deciding to give up on me in favour of OW.
I'm sorry you lost your brother; that must have been very hard especially as he was still so young. It's interesting what you say about his daughters, because my other child is just like his other daughter: more physically affectionate than I could imagine possible in a pre-teen boy! (Did she take after her mother?) And it's very reassuring that it shouldn't affect D's relationships.
You know, your H will definitely find being with a more affectionate person irritating after a while. My H admitted--before counselling, even--that he liked the fact his evenings with the EA were relatively short, or he'd have tired of her a lot faster. In his case, he was attracted by her extreme lack of affection, which later he saw as her greatest flaw.
My weekend was good, and I hope yours was as well. Are you feeling more like yourself, the longer you live alone? Are you reconnecting with the things you used to enjoy? Or is it still too raw....?
My h did always recognize that he was withdrawn and non-communicative, until he decided last year that he is a extrovert!
Your h's mother sounds like she was, how shall I say, interesting? Poor guy! Can you imagine how hurt he must have been every time she betrayed a confidence? I have read that the MLCer usually "affairs down" but I also think they look for someone very different from their spouse because they are so sure that the spouse is the reason for their discontent.
I think you are correct in my h's feelings and depression and how he decided EVENTUALLY it was our marriage that was making him unhappy. What I find very frustrating is that I did try to address our issues a few years before we split. I would have been happy and willing to try to make changes had he identified anything but it was always me raising the issue. I didn't get the "IDLY" bomb until after I had ended the marriage. I believe that is because he did love me but decided that he must not around the time he started the affair. When I told him a couple of weeks before we separated that I has lost all confidence in "us" he asked me what he had to do for me to get that back again. If he no longer loved me, he had the perfect opportunity to say so then.
My brother was 44 when he died from non-hodgkin's lymphoma. It was a very agressive form and he died only 5 months after diagnosis. It was heartbreaking for all of us. He was the only person in the family who always took very good care of himself. He was the only person who never smoked, rarely drank, was a track star at university, etc. He was seven years older and I admired him a great deal and miss him every day. He died at the end of October 1999. Less than three months later my h and I were out having a beer one night and I started to cry. H said "Don't you think you should be over this by now?" I guess that should have been a clue to what I had to look forward to.
No, the other niece is not like her mother -- she is just herself. My former SIL is not a nice person at all and we could never figure out what my brother saw in her. They almost divorced once but with counselling put it back together again.
Weekend was uneventful. Honestly, I have been "alone" for a long time. I was lonely then and am lonely now but haven't quite figured out how to fix that yet.
I'd have to say my H's OW was my opposite, from what I've heard at least. Also, I came across a post by Newman (??--from the other site) where he suggested that the OW is like the anima, or rejected female side of the male MLCer. I saw one photo of the OW and was amazed that she actually looked like a female version of my H! Interestingly, Newman was right: H seems to have come to terms with his female side now, and it actually makes him more comfortable in accepting his role as a guy.
Yes, my H's mom was an interesting, larger-than-life figure! She had a lot of wonderful qualities as well, but I have to admit that, even though my kids have lost a very involved (!) grandmother, I'm glad they don't have to deal with her messing with their minds.
Oh, the duality of these MLCers is enough to drive a person crazy! My H admitted afterwards that he'd never stopped loving me, but as long as he couldn't love himself, he couldn't actually feel love for anyone else. I'm glad he recognized that. It's impressive that you were strong enough to be able to end things with your H so swiftly and decisively--that shows so much internal strength!
Your brother sounds like a really great guy--what a loss to you and your family. I hope that, despite her failures, his wife made a good parent to his daughters. It's strange how sometimes it's the clean livers among us who succumb to cancer early. The same thing happened to my mother, who died at 60 after doing EVERYTHING right. She must have had one of the lowest toxic loads of anyone living in North America. Whenever I hear one of those programs on "things you should do to avoid cancer," I can mentally check off every single thing--and more--because she did them all. It seems inconceiveable, and also scary that following the health rules can yield so little result. Meanwhile, they ask the 100 year olds for their secrets, and it often comes down to, "Every day I smoked, drank and ate red meat and look at me now!"
It's horrible that your H thought you should be over your brother's death in 3 months. I guess that's part of the whole I-have-no-issues-so-what's-wrong-with-you mentality. And it's not any consolation to think that his issues are now rearing their ugly heads, and it's going to take him a LOT longer than 3 months to get over them....
Being lonely sucks. It's such a hard thing to change, though. What have you thought about doing? Are there any things you've always wanted to accomplish, but it was never the right time?
I'd have to say my H's OW was my opposite, from what I've heard at least. Also, I came across a post by Newman (??--from the other site) where he suggested that the OW is like the anima, or rejected female side of the male MLCer. I saw one photo of the OW and was amazed that she actually looked like a female version of my H! Interestingly, Newman was right: H seems to have come to terms with his female side now, and it actually makes him more comfortable in accepting his role as a guy.
Yes, my H's mom was an interesting, larger-than-life figure! She had a lot of wonderful qualities as well, but I have to admit that, even though my kids have lost a very involved (!) grandmother, I'm glad they don't have to deal with her messing with their minds.
Oh, the duality of these MLCers is enough to drive a person crazy! My H admitted afterwards that he'd never stopped loving me, but as long as he couldn't love himself, he couldn't actually feel love for anyone else. I'm glad he recognized that. It's impressive that you were strong enough to be able to end things with your H so swiftly and decisively--that shows so much internal strength!
Your brother sounds like a really great guy--what a loss to you and your family. I hope that, despite her failures, his wife made a good parent to his daughters. It's strange how sometimes it's the clean livers among us who succumb to cancer early. The same thing happened to my mother, who died at 60 after doing EVERYTHING right. She must have had one of the lowest toxic loads of anyone living in North America. Whenever I hear one of those programs on "things you should do to avoid cancer," I can mentally check off every single thing--and more--because she did them all. It seems inconceiveable, and also scary that following the health rules can yield so little result. Meanwhile, they ask the 100 year olds for their secrets, and it often comes down to, "Every day I smoked, drank and ate red meat and look at me now!"
It's horrible that your H thought you should be over your brother's death in 3 months. I guess that's part of the whole I-have-no-issues-so-what's-wrong-with-you mentality. And it's not any consolation to think that his issues are now rearing their ugly heads, and it's going to take him a LOT longer than 3 months to get over them....
Being lonely sucks. It's such a hard thing to change, though. What have you thought about doing? Are there any things you've always wanted to accomplish, but it was never the right time?
I know nothing about the woman my h is with now and will do my best not to discover anything. Don't even want to know what she looks like.
When my h first agreed to a divorce in Jan 08, I was obviously upset and scared but didn't feel like I was making the wrong decision. When we decided to go to couselling and "work on our marriage" I did the work but h did not, choosing instead to have an affair and throw money at lapdancers. He was also well on his way to digging us into a financial hole. If I had known at the end of Jan that what was happening was a MLC, I am not sure I would have done anything differently. I just could not live like that anymore.
When I wasn't feeling any changes on his part over the next five months, it was fairly easy to make the split and initially I was again scared but fairly calm. It wasn't until he started treating me like his arch-enemy and I started discovering all of his lies that I fell apart emotionally. I didn't think we were going to be friends exactly but I didn't think that it would end up the way it has. I always stayed friends with ex-boyfriends, even still sleeping with them for a time, in the past. Once I started reading about MLCs I wondered if it was something that we would be able to get past but after discovering the lapdances at the end of Aug 08 I knew I would never be able to go back. I had a dream once that we got back together and all I felt was shame.
My brother was a great guy and a huge loss. Sometimes my mother forgets and ask why she hasn't heard from him in a while and I can't bring myself to tell her why. I just pretend I don't hear her and eventually she remembers. My SIL was, I believe, a good mother. She just really considered her and my brother and the girls their own family and didn't want to spend much time with us which was difficult for us because we really wanted to watch the kids grow and be with our brother. Two years before he died, they moved to another province so we rarely saw or heard from them until he became ill and came to Toronto for treatment.
I'm sorry about your mother. It is certainly true that cancer has little to do with lifesyle with a few exceptions such as lung cancer. I think that you are either going to get it or you are not and you are either going to recover or you are not. Listening to the oncologists when my brother was ill made it clear that they really have no idea. My friend's mother had cancer of the uterus and recovered and then had colon cancer and recovered.
I hear you about the three month thing. I have never really forgiven h for the way he was when my brother died. The morning my brother died he immediately went to bed when we got home, leaving me alone to call my boss, coworkers, friends, etc. At the funeral he stood in a corner laughing with his brother during the reception like it was a cocktail party leaving me on my own to greet my friends, and then he tells me I should be "over it" three months later. Really heartless but that goes back to his lifetime of emotional detachment doesn't it?
I discovered yesterday that h was the only person in his group who was let go (had someone who works at the bank check the inhouse email). Obviously his being fired cannot be blamed entirely on the economic crisis. I am not surprised if he continued behaving the way he was during the last year or so of our marriage. You can't keep up all that drinking, late nights, etc. without it taking a toll. Part of me believed that it was just to get away from me, however, and now that he has a new relationship and is "really really happy" he would be behaving himself.
I am very much a homebody so it is difficult to get out to do things. Also, most of my friends are married and have children so it's hard to find someone to spend time with. I know -- it is pathetic. The paralegal course is not going to work because there are about 18 mandatory subjects at $600+ each plus books as well as a field placement. My boss is pretty good but I don't think he would let me take six months off to do another job somewhere else. Feel free to give me ideas . . .
I agree it's better to know as little as possible about the OW. All over these boards, so much energy gets poured into despising and criticizing these women who have betrayed the sisterhood. Yet they're really only pretty damaged people with limited self-awareness--it's the spouses who really should be the target for all that anger and sense of betrayal. I can understand the temptation to focus on OW, because there's such a strong sense of jealousy that H could have abandonned a loving spouse for someone so messed up--but then you're just repeating your H's mistake of wasting all his energy on her, instead of on the self. (I can say this now, but it took me quite a while to get there....)
I'm with you on the lapdances being a boundary too far. If my H had gone there, I don't think I could have continued the marriage. MLC or not, I don't think I could have respected him again. I was a bit curious about how the lapdancing started though--was this something he did on his own, or did he have friends who were going anyhow, or was it with people from work?
It sounds as though there was a lot of clarity in your shame-dream. Throughout my H's MLC I had dreams about our relationship that were crystal-clear indicators of how I really felt, even before my mind had fully processed the information. Now that life has calmed down I've gone back to random can't-get-anything-useful-from-this dreams.
What a dreadful way to treat you during your brother's death! My H was about equally warm & fuzzy during his MLC, but the funeral was several years before your H started his--he really has a lot of work to do on himself!!
I guess it's not surprising that the bank noticed your H's life had got out of control. Plus, I believe a lot of MLCers almost bring losing their jobs on themselves, almost wanting to be punished for their feelings of worthlessness.
As for the new relationship, it's so hard not to think that H must think it's "better" than his old one, and that it meets all his needs, and that he's now totally happy. He may even tell you he's finally happy--but that's all part of the script. His unhappiness was never about you, it was about him, and that's why no new relationship will lead to happiness. Especially not a relationship that started with lies, cheating, and guilt. So don't believe he chose her to get away from you--it's himself he's trying to run from. Or, insofar as he did want to get away from you, it wasn't from the loving partner who enjoyed his company, it was from the straw figure he'd built up in his mind to justify his behaviour. Does the news from the bank help you believe that?
From one homebody to another--are there any classes you could take for stuff you could then do in your new home? I know you don't care much for cooking, but is there some kind of cooking you quite like to eat and know nothing about? Are there classes you might like to branch out into at the gym? Are there evening activities your girlfriends could to join you in without kids, like wine tasting or a book club? (Do you still like to read?) What were your favourite activities as a child?
I am certainly jealous in my heart, despite knowing that I have no reason to be. I am also curious as to what type of person has a relationship with a married person. I fully understand the "got really drunk, made a huge mistake" excuse but to knowingly carry on for months with someone who is married is very strange.
My h was not the strip bar type. He would go on occasion with the guys from work, as one of the EVPs from the UK loved the strip bars in Toronto, but he always told me when he got home and was always a little ashamed.
He started going with the guys after hockey on Friday nights and stopped telling me. I have no idea when, because everything he told me is a lie. He did say, when I found out after we split, that he was "in a dark place" and no longer went because he didn't "need to anymore." Nice. Getting him to admit to contact with the lapdancers took a long time. I am disgusted and will never think of him the same way again. It is amazing to me that some men do this habitually and are surprised when women consider it a deal-breaker.
My dream really was very clear and when I woke up, I was very relieved. I know that they recommend that you don't speak with everyone about what is happening with your marriage in case of a reconcilliation down the road but I told EVERYONE who would listen to me. We don't have mutual friends so it was not an issue for me.
Finding out that h was the only one who got fired in his group reinforced for me that it was not just about the financial crisis, but it will take a lot to convince my heart that this is all about him. My head knows it but my heart is not following. I still feel rejected and unwanted.
I looked briefly into cooking classes but believe it or not most classes offered are either for those studying to be a chef or they are "date nights" where groups of couples cook a meal together. The only other ones I could find are day classes on how to feed your baby properly, etc.
I do still read a lot so a book club would be a good idea. I would have to do it on my own however as I don't think any of my friends would have the time. I will see what I can find on the Internet.
You would think the gym would be a good place to meet people but as luck would have it, I am the only straight person at my new gym. Seriously. The good thing is I don't have to worry about being hit on.
From what I've read, the sort of woman who has relationships with married men tends to have been scarred by her relationship with her father. If he neglected his family for other women, or treated his wife badly, or made his daughter his favourite over his wife, the daughter is left with a lot of anger, and sometimes a desperation not to be stuck in her mother's situation. Sometimes she enjoys the feeling she's competing with another woman, or forcing someone to suffer as much as she did as a child. Other times, she's determined never to care for someone as hopelessly as she watched her mother do, and so wants to be in control of the relationship. Often, she has an unconcious desire to "punish" her father, and so the lower the man sinks and the more he loses, the better. And unless she gains some self-awareness, she just keeps replaying the same ugly patterns, insisting throughout that nothing she ever does is her fault. It shows how messed up the MLCer must be to find such a sad creature fascinating. And if he hopes to "rescue" her, he won't succeed because, like him, she's trying vainly to escape herself and her past.
It's good that you were able to tell everyone your story--it made me feel doubly alone that I had so few people I could talk to. Because of the kids and my feeling that H would PROBABLY stay in the marriage, I didn't want too many people to know, even many members of my family. I certainly got tired of people telling me how great I looked because of my weight loss and wondering what my secrets were, while I was going down a pants size a fortnight and feeling awful about all the mini-bombs.
I hear you on the heart versus head split, and that one takes a long time to come together. I found I was connecting my H's perceived rejection of me with other rejections in my past, which made me feel like a rejected little girl again. Once I was able to isolate feelings like that and not allow the pain from one to superimpose on the other, I was able to detach more from it. (Sorry, was that at all clear?)
So, if you're the only straight person at your gym and don't fear being hit on, then the place is totally full of gay guys? Heck, you're surrounded by guys who would be fabulous to take those cooking classes with!! (Apologies for the stereotyping.) Too bad the classes aren't appropriate: out here it's possible to take classes through the rec centres or kitchen-supply stores which aren't geared to upcoming chefs or couples, and it's usually a fun evening.
Good luck on finding a book club--and it might be worth mentioning to some of your friends. It is hard to find the time to read with kids around, but as a mom you sometimes want a project to prove your brain hasn't quite gone to mush. Plus, "having" to read something for book club makes such a good excuse for some alone time! Another thought--would some volunteering appeal to you? Perhaps not, when you're already so involved with caring for your mom, but it's something I've thought I'd like to do for the community (if I weren't so busy helping out at the school right now, of course!).
It must have been difficult to deal with it mostly on your own, especially while having to keep strong for your kids. All for the best obviously, because I'm sure your friends and family would find it very difficult to forgive your h for having hurt you so much.
Do you talk to people about it now? It would be interesting to see if any of your friends have experienced the same thing. I was talking to my girlfriend/coworker yesterday about the latest (job loss). She has listened to every gory detail since last June, and we were laughing about how most people wouldn't believe me if I told them my whole story all at once.
Over the months of our separation, I wrote down all of the things my h said to me. It really helps to go back and read them whenever I start wondering what is wrong with me that h doesn't want to be with me anymore. Revisiting the contradictory, intentionally hurtful, sometimes crazy things that he said helps remind me that this is not about me. His financial irresponsibility and now losing his job also helps.
Yup. Lots and lots of gay guys at the gym and all different types as well. I always wear my iPod while I work out because I am WAY TOO OLD for the "house" music so aside from nods and smiles I haven't spoken with anyone yet.
Volunteering is also a good idea and I have thought about that. At the moment I am having a hard time considering making a commitment to anyone or anything. Does that sound normal to you?
I didn't tell my sister immediately, but as the pressure built up (and it looked as though H would never disentangle from the OW) I confided in her. I think I defended him a bit to her, because I knew she had always liked him--ie, I explained much of his behaviour in terms of MLC and depression. Another good friend of mine had gone through her H's MLC a few years earlier, and she was invaluable! It was good to know I wasn't alone or crazy, and she was never afraid to give hard-hitting advice. We managed to laugh about it so much together, despite everything. I know what you mean about the story being unbelieveable; I've thought about writing a book about it all--a sort of antidote to romance novels, yet funny. But after reading a number of the stories here, it feels like I've heard enough versions of the same old tale.
You're really wise to keep that written reminder of H's crazy-speak. I kept a journal as well, both of H's wildly fluctuating utterances and of my own attempts to find some equilbrium. In the months between my H recommitting verbally and mentally, I read it again, and was blown away by all the pain he'd caused. I asked him if he still felt certain things (that he'd been adament about at the time, and that I had trouble forgetting), but for the most part he couldn't remember saying them. Some things--for example, that the OW was utterly blameless--he still believed, which really hurt because it meant she was still a fantasy projection for him. I think at some point I need to destroy those notebooks to complete the forgiveness process.
It does sound totally normal not to want to commit at this point. Your trust has been broken, which makes it hard to commit to people, and because you've lost your image of who you were in the relationship, it's hard to "see" yourself in new roles. Is there a bit of depression in there, too--that makes it very hard to give yourself when you feel you need to nurture your energy? I remember that for a few days after each bomb I couldn't even commit as far as getting into a conversation with acquaintances, months later I couldn't invite people over ... it does get better (you must be sick of hearing that!
I hope you have a good weekend! I won't be on much next week, as the kids have spring break (and seem to think the computer is therefore theirs!?!), but I will be sending you good wishes!
Enjoy the break with the kids!
Hi Cyrena,
Hope you had a good March break with the kids.
I had a call yesterday from my L. He said you are no longer Mrs. xh's given name xh's surname. What an idiot! I never changed my name and was NEVER addressed, not even once, by my xh's name before! Then he started jabbering about it being signed on March 17th but waiting 31 days from then so I am not entirely sure if I am divorced as of March 17th or will be as of April 18th. I'll have to wait until I receive the decree in the mail to be sure. I hope it's not March 17th as I am fond of St. Patrick's Day.
To answer your question above, I don't think I am depressed. I know that I am lonely and that I am bored spending my evenings and weekends alone.
Hi again Kai,
The break was great! We all love being able to lounge around in pajamas and make leisurely decisions about what to do with our days, so it was very relaxing. The kids were kind of sad to be heading back to school already today, and my D kept inquiring how long exactly it was until summer break....
Your lawyer is an idiot! And hasn't it been several generations since women wanted to call themselves Mrs. (H's first name) (H's 2nd name), anyhow? When I was young my parents had an elderly woman friend whose stationary, etc, all said "Mrs. James Smith" and it totally creeped me out because James Smith had died before I was born--it seemed to my childlike mind that she was shackled to a corpse.
You, on the other hand, will be free soon! I wonder what the 1-month waiting period is for? It sounds as though you anticipate that D-day will be a difficult annual anniversary for you. Maybe it would be better if it was March 17, so that you already had positive associations with that day, which could over time dominate? I'm sure the day you get the decree in the mail will be very difficult for you. It's awful how long it takes until our minds can stop replaying all the bad bits with each new trigger. And worse, maybe we need to go through this until we're finally ready to say "enough already!" and let it go?
You're doing well, though. Just need to work on getting back more of a social life! Do you think the move to the condo will put you in an area where there will be people in your age-group, and opportunities to try new things?
I'm glad you're not depressed! It really is hard to get through this kind of betrayal and rejection without slipping into at least a low-grade form of depression. So well done, you, for being so strong! And, now that you are a divorced (or almost divorced) woman, are there some goals you've been working on for yourself? How do you see your life changing in the next few years? What changes would you like to see? What is your vision of an ideal life?
Hi,
Glad you all had a relaxing break. I remember counting the days to the end of the school year after March break.
Yes, he certainly is an idiot. The original order was waiting for me when I got to the office this morning. The judge actually signed the order on March 13th (a clerk signed it March 17th), so I believe it will be final on April 14th. I was not overly concerned about the date sticking in my mind unless it fell on a holiday or a significant day, so it looks like it will be OK. Neither xh nor I could ever remember our anniversary and sometimes celebrated it on the wrong day.
Not sure what the 31 days is for, but the window for appeal is closed at this point. Seeing the order on paper was not difficult, as I felt divorced when I told xh that our marriage was over on June 2nd. I feel strange being "divorced" as I never wanted to have that label attached to me. I didn't even really care if we married in the first place although I did really want a diamond ring. Waiting for as long as I did before getting married, I thought that the odds were pretty good that we would stay married. I really thought I had made the right choice.
My new neighbourhood is really not that far from where I live now so it won't be too much of change except for noise (I hope). The street I live on now is very busy with traffic and emergency vehicles so I am looking forward to getting away from that.
I am just so grateful to not have been sucked into xh's crazy world I think that might be keeping me from feeling like I have lost something valuable and therefore getting depressed. I see my life changing financially for the worse as I now have to save as much as possible for my retirement after foolishly depending on xh to be saving for our retirement. I hope that I find something to keep me busy and fulfilled but I don't mean another relationship. I certainly am at a crossroads but don't know which way to turn at the moment. I'm going to concentrate on my upcoming move for the time being.
FWIW, I believe you probably did make the right choice when you got married--he was the right guy for you then, and you had good times together. But, he still had some growing up to do, and when it came time to face himself, he couldn't. There's no way you could have predicted that he would change into the selfish monster he did. Don't blame yourself for not "forseeing" this--this MLC board wouldn't exist if it was that easy.
I had an aunt who was a very bright, gutsy, outdoorsy woman. She married a compatible guy, and they were very happy until she was in a terrible accident that left her crippled and blinded (though not in pain). She couldn't deal with the confinement of her life, and became a very angry, demanding person. My uncle cared for her, learned to bake all her favourite things, etc, but (it seemed to me) really got the raw end of the deal. I guess what I'm saying is, adversity is a part of every life, and it's impossible to forecast it, and it's hard to know how individuals will react to hardship--some become better for it (and my uncle certainly did) while others seem to develop the most unpleasant side of themselves.
I know what you mean about not wanting the term "divorced" connected to you. But then, think how many hundred times better it is than "divorced and in MLC." At least for me, looking back, I can see that I went through a depressed period when my mom died, but I'm so grateful I didn't fly off the rails into MLC!! Then, when my H recommitted to the marriage--yet spent another 18 months very gradually becoming the person I actually liked again--I could feel the possibility of depression pulling at me again. At that point I very firmly told myself there was no way I was following in H's footsteps.
Getting away from all those emergency vehicles sounds wonderful and should make for better sleeping. Are you sleeping all right yet? Do the cats let you sleep as long as you want to, or are they the kind that apply wake-up tactics early in the am?
You know, it's okay to be at a crossroads, and to have the time to really think about where you want your life to go from there. Your retirement savings situation is a downer, though, particularly in this market downturn. Though, they do say it's a good time to buy--if you could figure out what! Would a course on investing, etc, interest you?
Is it warming up out there yet? At least the longer days must make a difference. Do you take your holidays in the summer? What do you like to do for it--any plans?
That is so sad about your aunt and uncle. I can certainly understand your aunt's anger and it sounds like your uncle was a pretty special guy to stick it out through a very difficult situation. I always told my xh that if something ever happened to me where I was seriously injured and required constant care, put me in the car, block the exhaust, and get out of town. Good thing nothing ever did considering what a coward he turned out to be.
From what I have read about reconcilliation, it sounds like it is very hard on both spouses. I commend you for getting through it and I am sure that it has left your bond even stronger than before. Not that you would do it again given the choice! When you say "becoming the person I actually liked again" do you think your h returned to the person he was before the MLC or do you feel that he is now a different and better person because of his experience?
In my case, I find it hard not to only remember the person he became in 2006; arrogant, entitled, materialistic, etc. and I am not sure the old person will ever return nor that he would want him to. People who believe that xh is in a MLC think that he will try to apologize to me some day for what he has done but I don't agree.
It is starting to warm up a little but, officially Spring or not, it will snow again in April. It always does.
I do usually take my vacation in the summer and plan to this year as well. I have a friend in British Columbia who I may visit or I may try to talk another into a trip to Ireland. She has 3 children, however, so it can be hard to find someone willing to look after them for extended periods as they are all boys. Her husband died 5 years ago. This should put me in a little more debt than I need but I would like to get away.
What about you? Are you planning any vacations away with your family once the kids are out of school?
Missed your other question . . .
Max is fascinated by water and splashes it all out of their drinking bowls, so Quigley usually gets me up in the morning to put more water in the dishes. I have dishes that automatically feed them breakfast and dinner. Other than that, cats sleep most of the time as a rule so they don't bother me too much unless they are taking up all of the foot room in the bed.
I like your sense of humour on the "mercy killing."
Yes, my bond with H is stronger than before, and I can truly appreciate how life and relationships require "testing" to make us stronger, and force us to examine ourselves and our needs. But, at the same time, there's still work to be done--I'm just having trouble putting a finger on what it is. I guess that's why I'm still drifting around this site.
You suggest I wouldn't do it again, if given the choice, and for a long time during the MLC I thought, if only we could have changed things in our relationship WITHOUT him having to become wrapped up in OW. And make no mistake, it still hurts that there were things he did for her that he never did for me. But I think I accept now that I might never have been motivated to make positive changes without OW. In particular, there was one day I'll never forget.
By the time it came around, my H had been in MLC for 3 years, and had gone through the passive-aggressive shutting me out, the spewing anger, and the building a materialistic, young-man nightlife for himself in the city where he was working. I had built up all sorts of defences against him in my heart, and in the ways I reacted to him. But none of them were good for me, and I felt used and devalued in a way that echoed my childhood abuse.
On this particular day, I finally got him to admit that he and the OW were more than "just friends," that he'd had all sorts of secret rendezvous with her, and that they were in constant phone contact. I cried so hard that day I had a headache for 3 days, but at the same time I really examined everything: did I still love him? was I happy with my behaviour? what changes did I need to make to my mothering, sex life, communication with others, self-love--I can't believe all the transformations I realized I needed that day. Would those changes have happened otherwise? I'm not so sure.
I believe that my H is a better person now than he was before the MLC, because he now knows he has chosen the kids and me, and because when he does have periodic feelings of inadequacy, he knows they're not coming from external sources like bosses, but are just scars from dear old mum.
I love BC, and have always wanted to go to Ireland! I notice you say "another trip," so I guess you've enjoyed at least one holiday there before? We do joke about 3 being the magic cutoff number where nobody's willing to take your kids anymore, so good luck with that! How are airfares to Ireland looking? Inside Canada never seems to be cheap.... The kids are eager to go camping, so that may be what we'll look at this summer, though the older I get, the less I care for mosquitoes, sleeping bags and pads, etc....
It is good that you are able to look back at what happened with such a good attitude and impressive that, even in the depths of terrible pain, you became aware of choices and changes that you needed to make for yourself as well. I wonder what it is that you need to put to rest?
There is another MLC board where, although there are some helpful posters, many seem to be convinced that the implosion of their marriage is solely the fault of their spouse and the OP having an affair, and that when they got "the speech" they were completely taken aback.
The first time I posted there, many of the responses were "What difference does it make if he is in a MLC, you wanted out of the marriage and are getting a divorce." "Are you just annoyed now that you found out about the lapdances?, etc." I was shocked. Just because I had reached a point where I could no longer continue in that situation, didn't mean that what happened and my confusion over the changes in my h didn't matter.
It was purely instinct that I immediately saw a lawyer and started the separation/divorce proceedings. I had no idea he was digging us into a hole financially as well as betraying me emotionally, but I wasn't going to sit around and wait for him to make decisions on my future.
Although I didn't find out about the affair until we were apart for many months, I don't blame what happened on the affair. She is a symptom, not the disease. The MLC obviously started long before he strayed and I was very aware that there was something wrong for some time. I just didn't know what to do.
I am aware that even though I could not have altered the path that my xh is on, there were areas of my marriage where I could have and should have made improvements. I hope to remember those should I ever fall in love again.
Sorry, I meant that I am hoping to get another friend (other than the one who lives in BC) to go to Ireland. Flights to Ireland are about $850 - $1100. I don't know if that is good or not.
I have been to Greece, Italy and Spain at different times and loved all three of them, although Greece was the best. Other than that, aside from a few places in the Caribbean and Cuba, I haven't travelled much. I have seen very little of Canada as, you're right, it does always seem expensive to travel to other Provinces. I would love to see Newfoundland (went when I was three but don't remember) but it's hard to hit on good weather!
CAMPING! I do not envy you that. I hated camping even when I was a rowdy teenager. I had a bear stick his head into my tent once at Algonquin Park. Luckily I was too skinny at 12 to look like a good meal so he left.
Personally, I think it's impressive that you were able to act so quickly to protect yourself from the craziness. It shows you have strong boundaries and a good sense of self-worth. I certainly wish I'd been able to set some boundaries sooner--in my case one of the lessons I needed to learn was how to keep saying "No" after being ignored. And, looking around this place, establishing and enforcing boundaries seems to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks.
It makes me sad when I see posts by people who claim that their marriages were perfect until the bomb, and now some evil wench has seduced their hapless H. A good marriage requires conscious work--so if everything was sugar and sunshine, how aware were they really of its weaknesses? On my day of realizations, I also recognized that if I chose to rail against OW, it would only be because it was less painful than fully admitting the depth of my hurt at H's betrayal. Later, I could see that he felt an instantaneous connection with OW only because she was the first woman who came along whose negative energy matched his own, and who could distract him from his depression by letting him try to rescue her from her drama. So it's healthy you were able to sidestep a lot of these mental traps.
As for making changes to how you behave in a relationship, I think identifying behaviours which haven't worked for you is the most significant first step. And chances are good that you'll meet another guy, when you're ready; I certainly hope you do! Life seems to have a way of testing all the changes we try to make (and that's especially true for the MLCer!!), which supports my hope for you.
You said the other day that you didn't think your H will ever apologize for his treatment of you. That's a painful thought, especially after all you shared. From what I've read, many do express shame or regret, often years later. The ones who don't are the miserable, broken ones who never come to terms with themselves (or are too stubborn to admit their mistakes). But if you're basing your assumption on how entitled he feels now, that could be temporary. I remember, part way through my H's MLC, wondering why I'd never noticed that selfishness was his dominating characteristic. Now, he can still become quite caught up in his own feelings and needs, so self-absorption is one of his traits, but that's balanced out by other, better traits--it's never at the negative level it was for a few years there. Would it help you move on to get an apology at some poin?
Your bear experience sounds quite terrifying, especially as you were so small still! You were lucky that night. I liked camping as a kid and teenager, and until I became a mom it was still a pretty spontaneous thing. As a mom, though, it's a totally different experience, involving far too much pre-planning, packing, and laundry afterwards, and not enough running water and comfy chairs during. Still, I guess we should let the kids discover how much they like it for themselves, because it's supposed to be a part of childhood, right?
Thank you for the compliments. I just wish the instinct to protect myself and the realization that I could not change what was happening, had made the experience less painful. When I look back over the past year, I am amazed I survived.
What has been especially difficult has been finding that the people who I thought I could depend on turned out to be the least supportive. At the same time however, I have come to appreciate the support of others where I did not expect it.
The lack of understanding or belief of a MLC has also been really frustrating. One friend basically thinks that I was married to an alcoholic philanderer with a gambling problem (investment account) and I somehow failed to see this over a 14 year relationship. Oy.
I don't see an apology ever coming from xh. Even when we were together and happy, he would always try to turn things around or say "but you did _____" rather than just give me a simple apology.
It won't make any difference in my healing. I am still having a hard time when I think about his coldness and complete lack of empathy throughout our separation and I guess what I really want is for him to feel the same pain that I have felt. He hasn't grieved our marriage or the loss of us at all and that really hurts.
I hope this is not too much detail but for the last several years of our marriage (I honestly can't remember when it started) xh appeared to have PE. Intercourse would last 1.5 minutes at the most -- no exaggeration. I made very light of it and most times we would both laugh about it, but it certainly didn't inspire me to initiate sex very often. On the rare occasion that I did actually try to address it, he would say, "I am afraid it is hurting you" (I have endometriosis) or "I thought you weren't into it." Whatever. I could not believe that he was blaming me for this instead of trying to find out if he had a problem.
I asked him in Jan when he finally admitted to the affair, and he said that it doesn't happen anymore. It was still happening when we were together and he was cheating, so why with me and not her? I can only assume that it's because he was drinking when he was with her and that would make a difference or he is lying. If he is lying, I cannot figure out what this woman is motivated by, unless she thought that he had a lot of money.
He just is not good about facing anything. He will avoid any unpleasant conversation or situation. You can actually see him shrink into himself. That makes him sound like such a coward and I don't mean to but it's true. There have been many instances over the years where I felt like I could not depend on him to stand up for me or take care of me.
I've observed in my reading that many notice selfishness in their MLC spouse. Did you notice that he was selfish before, but it became exaggerated or was this a new trait? It must be very hard to be selfish when you have kids. Maybe that is why there are fewer women who have a MLC?
The bear wasn't really that scary for some reason; he was pretty cute and mostly curious. I suppose camping is fun for the kids and something they should experience. What I remember from my very few experiences is that it always seemed like a lot of work. You no sooner finish cooking, eating and cleaning up and you have to do it all over again. And then there is the uncomfortable sleeping. I heard a comedian once say that he did not understand working all year so that you can pretend you're homeless while on vacation. Pretty funny.
Have a good weekend!
The pain is incredible, so give yourself credit for having survived it. That must have been difficult, not to get support from those you'd thought would support you the most--I guess it really made you appreciate who your closest friends were? As for your friend who thinks you were clueless for 14 years, is it really possible she hasn't seen other guys around her in MLC? When my sister and I totted up the numbers, we were shocked how many we knew. Or maybe she has some reason for not wanting to believe there is such a thing? I really wish more people knew about MLC, because it affects so many lives ... and lasts far too darn long!
You know, my H was never good at apologies, and during the MLC he twisted everything that should have been an apology--or even a simple acknowledgement--back to me. That makes me see how far he's come, that he can now actually apologize.
That's interesting about the PE. The majority of MLC men do seem to have some sexual issues. In my H's case, he could no longer ... finish, pre MLC. (He's fine now, so a lot of it must have been depression-related.) I understand that the initial novelty may result in better sex with new partners, but that doesn't last. And on the whole, most affairs result in pretty bad sex. So, yeah, OW's motivations are questionable.
I know that in my case the abuse impacted my ability to be sexual in unexpected ways, and it's taken me a long time to figure out how I've unconsciously tried to "protect" myself with behaviours I'm now trying to change. I suspect some of your H's problems could be similarly motivated and believe me, it's so hard to change issues you aren't and don't want to be aware of. If that makes sense.
About the selfishness, I think H always had the potential to be that way, but as long as he was in love, etc, he generally wasn't. He was a great dad up until the MLC, then he started avoiding and criticizing the kids and quite clearly wishing he hadn't had them. Poor little things. When women have MLCs, I believe they're just as apt to ignore the kids and parent them poorly, at least for a time. I did read recently in the paper that researchers have determined that girls have a much higher rate of overcoming highly negative childhood situations than boys do, and wondered if that was why fewer women seem to have MLCs. On the other hand, for every MLC man, pretty much, there is an almost equally messed up OW, so I don't know that they come off that much better. (Although, many do seem to be serial OWs, reducing their ranks.)
I like the camping joke--I may even get to live it this year!
Enjoy your weekend.
I only know of a few instances of MLC in real life. Perhaps because the abandoned spouse doesn't talk about what really happened to their marriage in the hopes that their spouse returns?
The friend is a man who is in his mid-fifties. Does not believe in a MLC but thinks that xh's childhood abuse caused all of his issues and believes it is amazing that our marriage lasted as long as it did. My last C was of the same view actually. They both believe that xh is damaged and unable to really emotionally attach to anyone, and will continue with this behaviour in his relationships for the rest of his life.
As you believe, my C also said that the PE was due to the childhood abuse. I believed him initially but if you are both correct why is xh not having the same problem now? His relationship with the OW is in the 15th month now, if I am to believe what xh told me about when they met.
My xh was always pretty selfish, even when it came to his son. Not an attractive trait and while I called him on it a lot at the beginning of the relationship, at some point I started to give up. I hated pointing out that he should want to be with me at least one day on the weekend. I wanted him to just want to.
Spent a lot of time crying yesterday for the first time in a long time. Woke again at 4:00 a.m. Don't think I can take much more of this.
Hi Kai,
I'm sorry you're in such a bad place this weekend. Can I ask, what specifically is making you cry? Are there particular thoughts or emotions associated with it? Also, do you feel your grief is as deep this time as previously, or is it at a slightly less intense level? Sorry, that sounds a bit clinical--I feel for you; it's a terrible place to feel so alone.
About the PE, I think you stated that it began to show up in your relationship in the last few years. So I'm assuming that the excitement of sex with someone new (and possibly a bit sleazy?) would allow H to perform better for a period, but once the novelty wore off, his mind would dominate his physical urges once more and the problem would return. I sort of found the same thing after having my D--I was okay for a while, then a sort of fog would creep into ML, and I was unable to connect with my sexuality again for very long at a time. Most of the stories I've read here, the MLCers admit afterwards that sex with the OP was not great, but they lied about it when rubbing it in their spouse's faces. And you know how effortlessly they lie about everything else at that point! They probably don't want to admit to themselves that they've just lost yet another reason for leaving the M.
I read over your first post here again, and it seems indisputable to me that your H went through a drastic change a few years ago, one that included all the hallmark phrases of MLC. I think your C and your friend are right that your H was damaged by his abuse, and that the depth of his MLC results from it, and that he may never snap out of MLC-mode unless he really confronts himself. However, from what you've said, I think he was showing his better self when you met and for some years after, so what you had was not just an illusion.
Are you feeling any better today? Is it good to be at work, so you've got people around you and tasks to perform? Have you got any further on planning your vacation?
My mind starts spinning with all of the things he has said or done since our separation and I start to cry.
When I told him our marriage was over last June, I was OK emotionally. I was upset, of course, but was generally OK because I thought that we were going to treat each other with consideration and respect.
Two days later he didn't come home on a week night (I was up all night and frantic) and I threw him out of the house the next day. He told me he slept on a friends couch. I didn't believe him, of course, but assumed that he got drunk and had a ONS as I didn't know about the OW. Every time we spoke afterwards he would make a snide comment about me being unreasonable and not wanting to have an amiable split just because he spent the night on Dave's couch. Why wouldn't I believe him . . . he would NEVER do that to me. He finally admitted in January 09 that he spent the night with the OW. TWO DAYS after our separation! What an pig he is! To have someone who once loved me treat me as badly as he did still causes me a great deal of pain. What kind of woman is she? I can't imagine ever intentionally inflicting that kind of pain on another woman.
Added to that is the confusion; the things that just don't make sense. Once on the phone I told him that I had my first birdie golfing and he wanted to know who I was golfing with. I told him it was none of his business and he freaked out saying "You're dating already! -- that's cute!" and hung up on me. A few minutes later he sent me an email saying that I was trying to hurt him and he didn't understand why. This was July 6th. On July 4th he had booked and paid for tickets for him and OW to go on a vacation to Cuba. It makes no sense!
In October, after my Gyn told me that he thought I had a STD, I called xh in a panic and BEGGED him to tell me the truth. Told him it didn't matter anymore, we are getting divorced, but this is my LIFE and I was going to have to wait 4 WEEKS for the one of the tests and he still denied, denied and denied. When I said, "I haven't slept with anyone." he replied "Neither have I." It makes no sense! He told me later that he thinks I was making it up.
I certainly hope he is having bad sex but you know what they say . . . even bad sex is pretty good. I hope he is having bad golf and bad hockey too. I hope he can't afford the hair-loss pills anymore and rapidly loses all of his hair on top so that he looks like a clown. I hope he can't even get an interview for a mailroom position. I hope he runs through his employment severance pay like a drunken sailer and ends up completely and totally broke. I hope he returns to the lapdancers and gives the OW the clap.
I guess the grief is less intense because I am no longer in shock but it's still pretty powerful grief. I can't believe this has happened to us and that I am left on my own to start again while he lives his happy life with the OW.
Hoping to see my girlfriend this weekend to discuss Ireland. I am not holding my breath.
The part where the guy who's cheating accuses his spouse of being involved with someone else, or insists that he is the victim, is unfortunately pretty common during affairs. I think it's called projection, where the cheater can't stand the guilt and so tries to put it off of himself and onto you. I remember when I told my H how I felt about his glorification of OW, he claimed I had similar feelings for one of our friends, and it hurt him equally. I've known the guy in question since I was 6 and it was laughable that I'd ever be interested in him, so it was clear to me that H was fabricating away in order to feel justified and "wronged." (I guess the good part is that, even though they aren't dealing with it, they are experiencing guilt??)
It's horrible that your H would prefer to let you suffer through 4 weeks of wondering whether you had an STD than tell the truth and give you peace of mind. It's horrible that he preferred to imagine you were trying to trap him rather than acknowledge how scared you were. But somehow once they've told a lie, they fight fiercer than a momma bear to protect that lie. One weekend, my H claimed he'd missed 2 flights back to our city, through sleeping in, bad traffic, etc. His excuses didn't add up, but he defended them fiercely. A month or two after he returned to the marriage I said I really needed to know--had he been with OW? He deflected, he tried silence--it must have taken 20 minutes to prise the truth from him.
In the end, you'll decide one day, there's no point in trying to figure out the "whys." Although the pod people talk and act with remarkable consistency, their brains are just not working on the same wavelengths as ours, so we'll just end up as crazy as them if we try to understand them. I felt a lot better after I read some stuff on depression and seratonin levels on google--at each level of seratonin they behave in predictable ways, with most affairs beginning once they hit moderate depression, etc etc. That really made me see it was not about me (or OW)--it was all just an evil brain chemistry experiment, and I needed to take care of myself rather than become too caught up in it.
I applaud your curses--they made me laugh. I know some people here claim there's bad karma in wishing ill on H & OW, but my friend and I took great pleasure in it for a time--it was very cathartic. I even had a song about the OW that I would hum to myself when I thought about her, and it helped me laugh about her (to break that incessant question of what-does-he-see-in-her-that-I-haven't-got?) And then, one day, you'll decide H and OW aren't worthy of the space and time you give them, and you'll flick them away like bumbling woodlouses. Until then, carry on!
I'm glad your grief is less intense. Coming out of a traumatic loss like this really is a "two steps forward, one step back" sort of process, but as long as the intensity is subsiding, you're ending up ahead. You're a very strong woman, so I'm confident you can get through it. Don't torture yourself with thoughts of him being happy, though, because I can guarantee that he isn't.
Any ideas for a creative curse song to try out in the shower?
Hi, Kai,
I hope you're doing better, after your rough weekend.
I remembered that if you wanted to look at a really detailed thread about the various manifestations of MLC, a poster called Trusting had one up a few months ago which was really useful. I'm not so good at linking things (H is the computer whiz in our house, and I'm not asking him!), and I hear that a lot of the older threads are hard to find now, but it's an idea.
I was also thinking about how most of the MLCers are caught up in mommy-issues. Some do become their fathers for a while, and it certainly seems as though your H followed his father's suit by experimenting with what he knew were inappropriate sexual urges. You mentioned that his mother knew about his abuse yet ignored it. As a mother, apart from that, what was she like? What did she teach him about women, and his own self-worth in comparison to her?
Here's hoping you and the cats are well, and that better weather and better times are not far away....
Hi Cyrena,
I am muddling along. I went to the gym monday and yesterday so I feel a little better.
I will look to see if I can find the thread from Trusting that you refer to.
Xh's mother. Where do I start?
Xh told me that she taught him to golf and played tennis with him when he was young and although he never said how old he was, I am guessing around 10. I think he thinks that it is really great that she spent time playing sports with him as if it's unusual for a parent to spend time with their child. His father never played sports with him, although he did golf as well, so perhaps that is why he thinks his mother is cool.
At some point this stopped and I am of the opinion that it coincided with his father beginning the molestation but because xh cannot remember, I am not positive. I firmly believe, however, she abandoned him rather than face what she was a party to. I told him the night that I ended our marriage that he needed to see someone because, worse than the molestation, his mother abandoned him. Not sure if he ever thinks about that.
He did not like my distain for his mother, saying that he felt that she was just as much as victim as the children were. What crap -- I made it clear to xh that I did not agree. She had family who she could have turned to and chose not to. Not only that, she exposed her brother and sister's children to the same risk.
He used to brag a lot (to my sister as well) that he came home from school as a little boy and made his own lunch. Didn't seem to find it odd. His mother worked part time, I believe, but don't most parents who are both working send the child to school with lunch or lunch money? I was bused to school so perhaps I am wrong about that and this was not uncommon?
As a person she is anti-Semitic, racist and extremely unintelligent. She is self-centered and emotionally unattached to her children and grandchildren. In 14 years she did not ONCE invite xh and I to her home for dinner. Can you believe that! Xh didn't take it personally he said, because she never invited anyone else either.
His sister, who is bi-polar, attempted suicide about 7 years ago. A few weeks later, the family had some type of party and Xh and his son went while I stayed home. His sister called and started yelling at me because xh had not once called her to see how she was. I told her that she needed to take it up with her brother and we had a long talk about his family dynamics. Xh called me before he was heading home and I told him that his sister had called and why and then we hung up. His mother phoned almost immediately and wanted to be sure that I had not let the cat out of the bag that she had not been invited to a family gathering. I guess she was afraid her daughter might ruin the party by slicing her wrists over the pizza.
Same sister had and survived breast cancer about 6 years ago. The family has never talked about it. Xh never called her and actually told me once that he isn't sure he believes that she really did have cancer. I have a feeling the rest of the family has the same thought. Unbelievable.
Shortly after we married xh had jaw surgery. Not ONE member of his family called me to see how he was -- I had to call them and they all seemed surprised that I had.
I asked his mother if she could come and look after him for two days because I had just started a new job and couldn't get the time off and she said she had plans to play cards! Cards! So I asked if she could watch him one day and I would get my mother the other day. She agreed. When I came home she practically knocked me over trying to get out the door and told me that I was out of ice (he needed it for the swelling). I told her I would try to find the recipe and slammed the door. Xh was disheveled, hungry and unhappy. When I came home the next day when my mom was looking after him, he was scrubbed and shiny, the sheets were clean and tightly tucked in, he was fed and happy. He wrote on his pad that he wished my mom was his mom.
She never called when we had xh's son to speak with him or maybe come to town to take him out to dinner or a movie. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times she called our home at all.
When xh's brother called her to ask her to his daughter's ballet recital she declined. What kind of grandmother doesn't go to ballet recitals? We all hate them but we go! Xh and his brother laughed about it because it was obviously typical.
She separated from xh's father a few months after the abuse was revealed in 1997 but only because the children all made it clear they were not going to be seeing the father again, so she would be left all alone with him. She started dating some guy around the time that my brother died. I had never met him and she proudly brought him over to me at funeral home to introduce her new boyfriend. Who the Hell brings a date to a funeral? If she didn't want to drive alone, he should have gone to a coffee shop and met her afterwards. I was outraged and freaked out on xh but, naturally, he said nothing to her because that would mean having to have an unpleasant conversation.
Well I could go on and on and on but, as you can read, I am not fond of my XMIL. She told xh after we split that I was cold to her. She's luckly I never told her what I think of her and then knocked her teeth down her throat.
So, no, she was not a good mother and certainly didn't teach him to have the regard and respect for woman. I really feel that a lot of xh's emotionally detachment and lack of empathy is genetic from her and exacerbated by the abuse at the hands of both her and his father.
I hope you and your family are well. It's sunny here today but I think they are forecasting snow for early next week.
Sorry about the typos above. I guess I can't type when I'm worked up!
I found the thread you referred to and it was interesting. I guess I can rest assured that there will be no apology forthcoming from xh. Given his family issues he is going to spin forever and never face his demons or reflect on what he has done.
One of the comments unrelated to mothers or parents that stood out was someone mentioned that their estranged spouse had travelled a lot since their split.
I found that interesting because my xh also took two trips with OW within six months -- both of which he charged to his credit card. We only ever went on a vacation if I planned it, made all of the arrangements, and I always paid my own way.
It's amazing how much better a workout makes us feel, isn't it--keep it up!!
As for xh's mother--wow! I mean WOW!! What an unbelievable piece of work she was. It sounds as though she had almost no maternal instincts at all. You ask what sort of grandmother doesn't go to ballet recitals or spend time with her grandson or help her own children out when they're unwell. I'd say, it's the sort of woman who lives so much in her own world that she has little sense of what "normal" people do. I can only assume that her own family of origin modelled selfish, un-child-friendly behaviour, and she never learned better.
And yet, your stories suggest that XH's sister could identify problematic family dynamics, and his brother was a better parent to his daughters than the example he'd been given--sometimes I wonder how it is that some people rise above their childhood environment, while others keep stuck repeating generational mistakes?
Essentially, your XH was never mothered. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember having read about the drastic effects on men of never having been mothered, and I THINK it was that they never got past that little-child stage of me-me-me-me, to a place where they could respect and empathize with others. So the selfishness may be genetic, or it may also be from never really having had his needs met. You're right--he really needs therapy for what his mother did as well as his father before he can truly be happy. But what a heap of garbage to wade through!
I had issues with my MIL almost from the time we met, especially when her controlling ways impacted our married life or our kids. But my H did just like your XH, defending and minimizing and laughing off a few memories that were closer to abuse than humour. Also, if it came to a toss-up between "obeying" her or doing what I wanted, he was unable to resist her, which just made me furious. It also spelled doom for our marriage, at least in its initial state.
When she died, I couldn't believe how everybody in the family talked about her as though she were almost saintly--not that she hadn't also been generous and thoughtful, it's just that they seemed in a huge rush to erase all the rotten things. Partway through counselling, H wondered what had precipitated the MLC. I gently tossed out the idea of his mom, but he refused to entertain that. It was a year later, when he began to admit that some of her treatment of him had been abuse, that I knew progress had been made. It's sad that these sons would rather go down the MLC sinkhole fighting for their mother's honour than admit she was imperfect and so keep a grip on themselves.
I'm curious--this family sounds like one that generally keeps its imperfections hidden. How did the abuse come out in the first place? Were the siblings eager to support the first one who talked, or would they have preferred to keep the secret buried?
By the way, you write really well, and have a great eye for detail--your contrast between the two mothers taking care of a sick man is really well done. Have you ever considered taking a writing class, as one of your GAL activities?
Have a good weekend! And if it snows, I hope that's the last time.
I never met xh's grandparents. His maternal grandmother was in a retirement home when we started dating but xh being xh, he never took me to meet her and she died shortly thereafter. I do believe there were some issues with her parents, but I don't know which one.
Her brother (xh's uncle) is married to a woman who took to me and invited xh and I to visit them where they live in Arizona, which we did. H's uncle is one of the most uptight, rigid, cold, unfeeling people I have EVER met. We argued constantly about politics and the war in Iraq. He seemed quite shocked that I wasn't more respectful of his views and also a little shocked that I am more intelligent than he was expecting. His aunt asked h at dinner one night how he managed to win over a woman like me. Xh wasn't pleased.
The aunt and uncle had a very unhappy marriage but when I spoke with her the Xmas before my separation she told me that they are both taking Prozac and are very happy!
I sympathize with you about your former MIL. You most often hear stories about MIL's interfering in their child's marriage and the rearing of children; constant criticism of the new wife's cooking and cleaning skills, etc. I was grateful initially that xh's mother was so non-interfering. Be careful what you wish for!
I don't think it's unusual for people to have glossed over your MIL's faults when she died. You know the old saying "Don't speak ill of the dead." I think it's even more likely for men to do it because doing otherwise might make them face their feelings and fears.
When xh and I had been dating for a while he told me that there was some suspicion that his father was a paedophile but he didn't get into detail and I didn't press. Obviously no one says something like that unless they believe it's true and I figured he would talk to me when he was ready. I believe it was the bi-polar sister who planted the seeds but his brother (he is much like the sister) also admitted that he remembered something.
One Christmas eve (96 or 97?) they were all at his parents (I was not there because I spent xmas eve with my mother) and xh had his s with him. His s is the eldest grandchild. When it was time for s to go to bed, xh asked his father what bed to put him in and F said "Put him in our bed and when I go to bed I will move him." WHAT!! It made no sense and a big red flag went up for xh and he refused. He put s in the bed (single bed) he was going to sleep in and the siblings went for a cigarette outside and sister confronted xh, saying "You remember now, don't you!" Xh didn't really remember but really knew then that it was true. Brother confessed that he had a sort of mental breakdown when he finished university and realized what had happened when he was a kid/teenager and dealt with it then. He has said one a few occasions (he has three children) that if the 'urge' ever strikes him he will committ suicide, so he is aware of the deep, long lasting damage that was done. The eldest s (who is very much like xh) refused to believe anything initially and continued to see her f for a few months afterwards and then finally stopped.
There was little discussion afterwards among the family although the sister did try to get everyone to talk about it, to no avail. She did manage to get her father and mother to go to see her therapist who taped the session and while FIL admitted to molesting the boys he would not admit to molesting the girls. I think he was afraid that if he admitted to molesting the girls their mother would leave him immediately.
Thank you for the compliment! No I have never thought about a writing course. I've never considered myself to be particularly imaginative. If I was maybe I wouldn't be finding all of this so completely bizarre.
As far as your Xh's aunt goes, I'm sure you wondered how her H managed to win over a woman like her, too. A Prozac marriage--I guess that's settling!
That's absolutely true, about being careful what you wish for. You know that old saying about how you should see how a man treats his mother to know how he'll treat his wife ... though, judging by your MIL, that's probably not an adage you were too concerned about ... well, I was attracted by how loyal, admiring, etc, H was of his M. Until I saw her slimy underbelly and realized he was choosing her over me....
Why is it that whenever you think you've done well in the lottery of life, you always then proceed to get the (unexpected) fine print on the other side of the lottery ticket smushed in your face?
Wow, it's scary to think how close your step-son came to being molested himself. Your XH did well there to prevent that. I feel for his brother, though. I've found, and heard the same thing from other abuse survivors, that we have dreams of molesting our children. We wake up horrified and disgusted, wondering WHY we had such a dream. I can only speculate that it's to enhance our awareness that we're not choosing to go that route, and haven't got that desire. One friend had thoughts like that during her postpartum depression and worried she was really going to molest her newborn. It's good your BIL was able to distinguish between dreams and thoughts, and actual urges, and that he was so determined to do the right thing.
At the same time, it sounds like there's still a lot of denial in the family, though I can understand why it would be hard to discuss it more openly, which is impacting on the siblings' lives. I can't fathom perpetrating so much evil in your children's lives, PARTICULARLY if the same thing was done to you as a child. It must have been difficult for the sister not to have her own abuse verified and acknowleged.
But ... at least all of that is not your problem anymore! If you didn't care for imaginitive writing, I know our local colleges and universities offer courses/workshops on journal-writing and writing what you know. I thought, you're obviously quite intelligent, so it might be a way to meet new people with whom you feel compatable. Plus, organizing your thoughts on paper can give clarity and make a "pattern" from all the jumbled thoughts in your head. For some people, once they've put everything "out there," they find they don't need to dwell on it much further.
I hope you have a good week!
Cyrena,
I want to thank you again for taking so much time to respond to my posts. Your insight has been invaluable.
I am going to take a break for a while for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately this site doesn't have private messaging so that I could explain further.
Take care,
kai
You're welcome Kai,
I hope that coming here has answered some of the questions that were nagging you about whether this was an MLC or not, and given you a bit more peace of mind. I admire your strength and honesty and hope you find healing and comfort on your healing journey. Keep taking care of yourself, and I hope the move works out well. Thanks for helping me sort out some of my thoughts as well.
Take care,
Cyrena
Hi Cyrena,
Hope you, your h and the kids are well and you all had a happy Christmas.
Just wanted to update you that I discovered today through OW's facebook and she is engaged to xh. I should never have looked. First time I've done it even though I found her on my former stepson's FB page a long long time ago.
I guess all the stuff I read about relationships based on cheating never last much past two years, they never marry the OW, they will never trust each other, how can it last when she knows he cheats, etc. don't apply to my situation.
She wrote that she is deeply in love with her beautiful boyfriend.
It's all too much and I feel like I am back at the beginning again. I just don't understand how he can move on so easily, so happily, while I am still 'here' in this awful place.
kai
MY xh also M the OW
she is 28 he is going to be 43
It hurts a lot when you first find out
seems so bizaar b/c so much of the reading suggest it wont happen
I guess it does
My XH M in August..5 months after our D was final
all I can sat is the pain eases
inially it is a great shock..then it passes
whether the R can last, who knows
but im sure it wont be a blissful union
how could it when so many people were affected for th negative
and the age difference alone will catch up
focus on tking care of you
let H go
you will continue on your journey becoming free and whole
you will heal
I suspect they shutdown and that is how they can move on so easily
the OW is like a drug
but that part will fade and hopefully for them their is something of substance in the R or we know it cant survive
R are difficly in the best of situations and these circumstances are so negative
the odds are NOT with them
hang in
peace
Thank you Peacetoday.
I really didn't expect him to marry her. I don't know why, but I found all those statistics about the affair-based relationship comforting, believing it would end and he would see what a mistake he had made with me.
I couldn't take him back after all of the hurt he has caused me, but I wanted him to at least feel some of what I have felt. I suppose that's not the right attitude and I am supposed to wish him happiness but I am not there yet. I wish I was.
kai,
A lot of them do marry the OP. They are trying to prove a point in most cases, i.e., that it was us that created the breakdown in the marriage. Or, they do it when they are most vulnerable and don't know how to get out of it. Whatever the reason, many of them regret the new marriages, but won't always admit it.
As for him feeling the way you have felt....time is on your side. Give the euphoria time to wear off. He may be flying high right now, but in a few months or even a year or so, the brass will tarnish and he'll be down in the mouth once again. Karma has a way of coming back to bite them.
The most important thing you can do is take care of yourself. Focus on what you need to do to get through each day and go from there. The man upstairs will take care of your h.
I am trying to focus on moving forward with my life but am very lonely (no kids) and feel like this is the end for me in terms of a romantic relationship. It's very difficult to meet single men of my age who aren't single for a very good reason and/or are looking for someone in their 30's, rather than late 40's. I don't fault them for that, it's perfectly natural.
It boggles my mind that the person I love suffers a midlife crisis due to depression, hormonal changes and his never-dealt with childhood trama and I am the one who is left lonely and scared.
Hi Kai!
You know, marrying someone isn't the same as having a great relationship with them. Your ex has clearly never taken the time to deal with the issues you list above, and so is incapable of really loving another person at the moment. I know it's only another statistic, but the number of marriages to the OW which last are about 3%, so you know it's going to be fraught with problems.
I found it best, when thoughts of the OW came to mind, to "bless" her with the wish that, what she gave out, she would get back tenfold. (I figured if she managed to sort out her issues and became truly loving and caring, she'd become too happy to continue the OW cycle ... but if she continued to prey on married men and want others to take care of the problems she'd caused, she'd end up with being cheated on and causing greater problems for herself.) With that I'd dismiss her from my mind.
You know, it DOES feel like the end of all romantic hopes at this point. Let yourself grieve it--but give yourself a deadline, after which he's not worth it anymore.
What are you scared of?
How was your trip last summer? Did you get to BC? How is the new apt working out, and how are the cats?
Take care.
Hi Cyrena,
New place is good. Had to buy some furniture so I ended up not going anywhere on vacation for financial reasons. Cats are good company, as always.
What am I scared of? I am scared of not meeting someone new and being alone for the rest of my life.
I liked being married to my xh. We were great friends, had the same taste in movies, same sense of humour, mostly the same likes and dislikes in food, were discussing our retirement plans a week before we separated. We never argued and enjoyed being together. I was so sure of our relationship, so content. I KNEW his childhood was going to be an issue and I TRIED to address it with him over the years, to no avail. I certainly didn't think it was going to destroy our marriage.
I am not saying that I think MY marriage was SPECIAL or better than anyone who has experienced this type of break-up, but I'm not going to rewrite history and now find fault with him and our relationship in order to help myself heal. It wasn't perfect, I wasn't perfect, he wasn't perfect but it was really good.
Will I ever find that again? I don't feel like I will and that scares me.
There are pictures posted on her fb of them from their vacation last year which they took one month after we separated. It is pretty upsetting to look at them embracing in their bathing suits while I was home, preparing to leave our home and struggling to breathe.
As you know, it's hard for me to log on here while H and kids are home, so I have to be brief. There's more I want to say when I get a longer chance.
I'm guessing you haven't heard from your H since that last time? I guess that leaves you feeling as though you've had no closure with him--apart from this slap in the face of a wedding announcement.
From what I've read, most MLCers eventually do feel regret, and many try to make some sort of apology to the spouses they hurt. However, that may still be years coming, since right now your ex is still distracted by the OW-novelty-endorphins. He has known her for about 2 years this December, if I interpret correctly, so the crunch where he starts to realize that he's still not happy (and, therefore, you were not the source of his problems) can't be far away. As you say, he's stubborn, so he may not want to admit that for awhile--but he will feel it.
The trouble with fb is that most people only post happy photos and comments. Often, the worse the relationship is getting, the harder they try to convince everyone that all is perfect. So, what you saw was propaganda for them, but not necessarily reality. You're right to avoid the temptation to look again, though--it will hurt too much every time.
It's been 2 years of grieving for you, too, and I want to get back to you with some suggestions for moving on as soon as I can. Also, you might want to look for some "success" stories in the Divorced section, to see how others coped after divorce. Lissie was pretty amazing.
Kai,
If the time comes and you are forced to divorce your h, I want to assure you, you will be okay. The weight of the MLC will be lifted and the game of boundaries can then change. You will then have even more control over your life. How can I say that? Well, I'm divorced from a MLCer. I have been divorced for over 7 years and have been traveling this road for over 10 years and have studied and learned quite a bit about the MLC monster.
There are a number of successful posters all over the forums who are divorced and have gone on to be successes in all areas of their lives. Myturnnow, Lissie and others post here in the MLC forum as well as the Surviving Divorce forum. Divorce is not the end of the world...it's just a piece of paper. Who knows what the future holds for any of us. Please do not be afraid of what the future holds. The only thing you need to fear is fear itself.
Grieving takes time and each person moves along the path at their pace. However, we do not want to see anyone getting stuck. Why not sit down and make a list of things that you would like to accomplish that you've not been able to do for a long time? Check them off as you complete them. This is a good first step in getting over the "hump".
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I do not mind sharing what I have done to travel on down the road.
Kai
try to NOT go on facbook
It used to bother me so much to know the OW and H were happy
at some points during the crises ( beginning) xh seemed content and looked well
It bothered me and most of us to think about the OW having our h
and getting thenm to the point of leaving the family
it ias not what is seems
MY xh too had a horrible childhood
now my xh has lost it all
he has not looked happy for a long time
I believe they come to a place where they know and the running will only work for a short time
yet they refuse to look at themselves
they choose the path that appears fun and it probably is for a time
no one can make anyone work on themselves
only the person has to chose the road, seek help
it isnt about you
you know that
hang in
keep working on yourself
as snodderly says, you never know
some was return d or not
we lbs all seem to get better in time
we heala, change and grow and in many cases create new lives and new R that work
peace
Cyrena,
No, I haven't heard from him since February when he lost his job and wanted me to send him his resume. I saw him at the end of June in a variety store down the street (remember we both ended up moving to the same general neighbourhood) but I don't think he saw me. It was early in the afternoon and he was wearing his bathing suit, a t-shirt and riding his bike so I assume he had not yet found a job at that point. I hope the bike meant he had to sell the Audi.
That said, I guess he has a job now or he wouldn't be able to get engaged.
If I believe his story, he met her in Dec 07. I am pretty sure he is lying and I have reason to believe he met her in Oct 07, but stopped digging in order to save myself further pain. When I checked her FB it was only to see if my former stepson was still a 'friend' and then I would know if they were still together. The last thing I expected to see was 'engaged' and her gushing about her 'beautiful boyfriend.'
Snodderly,
I am divorced. I filed on the grounds of adultery and got the papers in April. He was spending money like a drunken sailor and tried to make me responsible for half of his debt after we separated. He even asked me to pay half his rent after I asked him to leave our home, although it appears he immediately moved in with OW into her government-subsidized apartment. As it was, I had to pay half of the $35,000 he spent in five months romancing the OW as well as getting lapdances (and likely more) at a strip bar.
Peacetoday,
Thank you for your thoughts. I will check out the divorced forum and see if I can find something to help me deal with this latest revelation.
My xh also appears happy in the pictures, and it was only a month after we split. During one of our conversations (I can't remember when but we've rarely spoken since we split) he told me that she is a lot of fun and he is really, really happy and that he thought he would miss me but doesn't.
Why I don't feel indifferent towards him and his life after that is something I am struggling with.
It takes time to detach completely, even after divorce. It took me approximately 2 years after the divorce to finally say "okay, enough of this bs". What helped me is the fact that I didn't have any more contact w/him after the divorce. Maybe the contact for you has to be completely dark these days.
You haven't been divorced very long and you are still grieving. It takes time....be kind to yourself and don't set your expectations too high for what you think you need to do and can do at this time. One day at a time.
Hello again, Kai,
Sorry I couldn't write much over the holidays when everyone was home and using the computer. I know that the holidays are the worst time to feel alone and sad--I hope you managed to spend some pleasant time with your family and friends!
I think that where you're at emotionally is a perfectly natural place to be. I'm sure you've read about all the stages of grief (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance) and how we cycle through them numerous times before we reach the goal of acceptance. Even though it's hard, it's necessary to go through the complete process in order to heal and grow. It is possible to become "stuck" in a grief cycle, in which case it's good to get counselling help to break free--listen to your friends/relations if they ever tell you they think you're at that point.
But in the meantime, FEEL your feelings, and focus on taking care of yourself. Did you find the time/energy/interest to take on some GAL activities? Are you still working out at the gym?
Another thought I had is about closure. Having a good relationship ripped away with no explanation must feel as though the universe has stopped making sense. Of course, you wait for an apology, for him to return to his pre-MLC mind, or for him to crash and burn on his self-destructive course. It seems as though SOMETHING has to happen before it's possible to move on--and that there's no one else out there anyhow.
I've never been in your exact shoes, but I think there were some similarities in my life as a result of having been molested. I fantasized about the abuser finally "getting" what he'd done to me and coming to apologize, or being set "free" by the news that he'd died. In some part of me I felt as though my life were partly on hold until I'd had that closure.
It took me far too long to realize that as long as I felt "different" from other people, or as if I would never really trust people because of what that man I trusted completely had begun when I was 7, or that this was something I'd never completely heal from, I was actually giving him too much power. I was victimizing myself by viewing myself as a wounded victim. I was defining myself through my relationship with him, not as a unique person.
What it took for me to take back control of my life was to forgive him--instead of waiting for him to change or die. I completed a careful and considered program of forgiveness, which asked me to complete exercises like considering all the negative assumptions I had developed about myself and my relationship with the world, of reframing everything he'd done into a positive statement of what a good relationship would be like, of developing compassion for him as someone whose upbringing had left him too wounded to be a properly caring adult in my life.
Then I let him go, and the change was gradual but amazing--after a lifetime of nightmares about him, especially with regards to my children, I could even have dreams where I knew he was hovering in the background, but I could continue confidently on with what I was doing, knowing he had no power. I believe that if I ran into him in real life, I could say a slightly mocking greeting to him and continue on. (In the past, I saw him in a grocery store, left feeling sick, was troubled for days and never returned to that store.)
l don't know if you're interested in such a step as forgiveness, but wanted to explain how it can set you free, should a time come when you feel ready to shake your ex off.
Try not to worry too much about the unlikelihood of finding available new guys in your age group. Once you're in a good frame of mind to meet them, I think people will be attracted to that. You've been very strong in how you dealt with your ex, and you will make it through this dark time!
Take care,
Cyrena
Kai,
I rarely come onto the boards any more but have felt compelled in the last week to do so. I have been here more or less since about 2005, long story and this post is not to focus on me or my sitch but to send you a hug today and to tell you that you will be ok. This is a long and hurtful journey but in time and with distance and support from places like this site you will get through to the other side. Honestly, one day you will just wake up and the pain is just about gone.
There are some great people on this site who can point you in the right direction but first things first, take care of yourself and your children and dont look at what he is doing ... focus on you.
Hugs,
Ever