TIPPER'S 3rd thread - Piecing Pointers

Hello All,

I am starting my 3rd thread, cuz the last one locked.

I am in piecing with my H, however he still shows signs of MLC.

This is our third attempt at piecing, the first attempt lasted 5 months and the second attempt lasted 1 week, and now we are trying a third time and have made it 3 1/2 months so far.

When I first started piecing, I felt so lost. I had spent far too much time focusing on his MLC and reading things to understand it. Hence, I overlooked reading into things that would help me if we were ever to get back together.

So, I would like to start this thread with a bunch of pointers that have helped me along the way through piecing. Some of these pointers come from the piecing forum, some from people who post to me, some are from the KLA cd's, and some of it are just basic facts. Much of this, I have just learned or finally have gotten through my thick skull. Here it goes:

1) To forgive means to drop it and never bring it up again - ever!
2) Patience, our marriages will not fix themselves overnight.
3) Keep focusing on me, GAL, and being an individual - so that we dont focus on the troubeled M or the problems within it.
4) Make the neccessary changes that we as individuals need to make (no...blaming, accusing, put-downs, blowing up, yelling, crying, bringing up the past, or making sly remarks). Take responsibility for our parts in the break down instead of taking it out on your partner.
5) Keep your faith, hope, and pray for the restoration of our M's and for the salvation of our MLC spouses.
6) Look as good as you can, take pride in your appearance (it will help you feel good about yourself and it will help attract the MLCer to you again)
7) Let the Lords words and the Lords walk of life guide us on our journeys (stop being self righteous, and instead be kind and put yourself in thier shoes).
8) Stop the Jealousy (towards their new lifestyle, their new friends, new hobbies, and new attitudes). It is normal to feel jealous, but it is pathetic to show it. Instead - transform it into feul to fire you up about changing things you resent.
9) Think positively (especially about your spouse, the improvements they are making, and their desire to recommit to the M) also, in general - SMILE!!!
10) Still set goals and watch for baby steps. Then experiement and monitor the results - just like we were taught to do during thier time away. Now that they are back, you must keep this going in order to change the pre-existing troubled parts of your relationship.
11) Dont show insecurity, be confident and strong in our decisions. Our self esteem is pretty much shot after they leave us, and it is up to us to re-build it to overcome our weaknesess.
12) Speak in "I" statements, softly and calmly when you need to express hurts and pains. Dont bombard them with blame.
13) Watch out for certain situations that you know could send you into a fight, and prepare your self to avoid one by being the first to change. For example, I always let my emotions burst when it is that time of the month or when I have had a few too many drinks - so now I know that I need to be more cautious during these times not to let our progress slip away by being emotional.
14) Validate them, and listen well. You'd be amazed at how much you can learn by really listening.
15) Reward them when deserved. If they do things you like, show your appreciation in a way that they would like.
16) Give them thier needed time & space, as many MLC S's that return are still very confused and are adjusting to another change in their lifestyle. Leave them be if needed.
17) Do new and exciting things together, novelty is fun and will help you both grow.
18) Change the way you react to them when your angry. Most conflicts go in circles, be the first to change. Stop being defensive all the time, and take some blame and apologize when neccessary.
19) They will still test us during this time, they want to see if the changes they saw are just temporary or if they are permanent. So be aware, that sometimes they will still do or say things that seem very MLCish. Brush it off, and dont read into every word or action, and keep your changes going.
20) And most important, is to honor your spouse. Dont put them on the back burner -ever! Even if they seem to do it to you, it should not be your way of getting back at them. Make them feel how important you think they are. Love unconditionally.

Well, thats my top 20, I am sure there are many more tips out there and I am hoping some experienced piecers will chime in here. Also, you might notice that much of the above is very similar to the things you try to do while they are gone, so the tips can be helpful to those that are still seperated also.
Lets try to keep this list going!!!
TIPPER

Journaling,

Well my H and I leave tonight for our florida & bahamas trip and will be gone together for a week. I cant wait, and he seems excited too. I hope we have a great trip and bonding experience that we surely need.

My H skiped going to my brothers b-day party last, so I went alone and came back all smiles. I now act as if it doesnt bother me that he cant come to family funtions on my side of the family anymore. I have tried to tell him it is not fair to my family but he just cant face them. So I go alone, and hope that this is not the way he sees it in the future.

My Moms b-day will be the day after we get back from our trip. I dont think he will go to her party either, but oh well - what can I do. I sure cant verbally persuade him so I have stopped trying. Now I just offer it, then go alone when he refuses & makes up some bad excuse. I will try this approach for a while, but if the 180 doesnt work, I dont know what else to try.

I will give an update next week when we get back on how our trip and anniversary went.
TIPPER

We just got back from our anniversary trip to florida/bahamas, and it was a blast. Even with hurricane Fay, the weather didnt deter us from having a great time.

It was so nice to spend the entire week with my H with no other distractions from our every day life. However, I found it really hard to come back home and drop him off at his apartment and go our seperate ways since he is still living apart from me. I cried on my way home because now it is back to reality time.

We had no huge blow outs. He only had a little temper when we were having driving and direction difficulties. He would blow up if we missed a turn, and then he would blame it on me. I would just sit queitly and not react. He even said he was sorry one time after blowing up and he asked me why I put up with his crap? I said, because I would rather shake it off instead of react back and go in circles with him because that is not productive for us. He said He could see my point, and said I still shouldnt have to put up with that type of treatment. I was shocked that he actually realized what his temper can do to us. He tried hard from that point on to not over-react, but he had a few slip ups on the way home.

He seemed great for about 5 days, then the last two he seemed a bit distant. He was constantly texting friends from home on his phone, even while we were at dinner. He got a cold, and got irratable.

I would rather focus on the 5 good days we had, because the last two werent that bad - just different.

So today I will go visit my family alone as expected. He gave me the "I've got to catch up on work" excuse, so he wouldnt have to come around my Family. OH WELL!!!
TIPPER

I got to vent!!!

Well, as I said, I went alone to celebrate my mom's 55th b-day up at my parents camp. My H said he had to catch up on work since we were gone for our trip.

When I got home, I text my H at around 9:30 and said I am home chilling for the night. He said he was too drunk to drive over and see me, so he would come by the next day instead. I said "o.k." even though this type of behavior bothers me. He always would rather go drink than to come see me.

So before I went to bed that night, through my tears I said the "hedge of thorns" prayer since I know I can not keep my H from sinning - I just pray that he would not find satisfaction out of it.

Much to my surprise my prayers were answered, while at 3:30a.m. my H called me to see if I could come and bail him out from getting a DWI. He blew a 2.2 (bac). This is the 3rd time he was given just a warning when he should have been arrested for a DWI.

The officer said, that the only reason he is giving him a warning was because he always sees my H's truck around at the town bars and that he knows that he will catch him again. When I told my H this, he just laughed. I dont understand why he cant learn from his mistakes. This is the third time he has gotten out of this in a two year time period through different officers giving him warnings.

I know it did shake my H up a bit despite his laughter the night before when he was still drunk. Because the next day he kept saying that he would kill himself if he ever hurt anyone else while drinking and driving. He said he just wasnt thinking and said he just really wanted to see me and the dog when he drunkenly got in his truck that night.

I guess I am flattered that he said he wanted to see me, but if that was the case - then why couldnt he have seen me when I first text him, rather than later after 6 more hours of drinking. I know why, it is because he treats his new friends like gold, and me like silver. I am always here for him to fall on and lean on, but only after he has had his full of fun with his new buddies. They definetly come first, and me second. This is so frusterating.
TIPPER

Tipper,
Forgive me if I sound a bit negative, but how long until you and your Husband will actually be living together again?

He still sounds so very much MLC, with his moods, outbursts and the drinking. Ignoring you and texting his friends? That is totally rude. No wonder you are frustrated.

Piecing is for TWO people who are committed to the Marriage, not one person doing all of the work and the other along for the ride.

I am glad you had a nice vacation together, I am sure you have some lovely memories and took tons of photos.

BND,
Yeah, I agree with you that my H still seems to totally be in MLC despite him returning to me. That is why I seem so scared about every little thing I do. I am doing everything as to not push him away again. I am holding back a lot. I would like to just show him my Hurt and pain, but I cant because it only sends him running.

I love being with him, and our time together is great. I have to just go in slow motion because he is still very lost and confused. I have to accept it, if I want it to work out between us. I am along for the ride. I am very patient by nature, and I plan on seeing what will happen in our futures. I still dont think that he wants to make any move to live together again any time soon. Maybe winter time at best.

I pray for the best.
TIPPER

O.k.
I am coming to the realization that I need to continue to do the 180's I have been doing, since they are working nicely at mending our R.

However, I also have realized that by doing these 180's(I've stopped defending myself, and accept my H's life choices even when I disagree with them) has put me in a position where many of my needs and wants are not being met.

So now, I have come to the conclusion finally that I need to learn how to be assertive and to ask calmly and nicely for what I want out of our M. This is so scary to me, there is a lot at risk here. But it would be another 180 for me to try since in the past my H used to say that I was too complacent. I had no idea what he meant by that. But now I think I do. I think that he is saying that I need to speak up more about my needs in a non complaining way.

Wow, the things I have learned here are all coming together and I hope that I can accomplish this next task. It is so scary to me, anyone have any suggestions. New_Attitude suggested to me that I try a letter. This scares me to write one. I am afraid it needs to be more subtle when I finally start being asseretive.

This assertiveness will not come easy for me and I could use some other good suggestions.
TIPPER

I am just posting rhetorically- no need to respond.

Tipper, I have been following your situation, but never felt like I had anything to offer, because, frankly, I am worried about all the gymnastics you are going thru to reconcile with someone that needs to get help. Serious help. If he did get a DUI (or God forbid, seriously injure or kill another person) the financial/emotional impact would be huge. It would take BOTH of you down.

My H seems to have a bit of a drinking issue (doesn't seem to know when to stop once he gets started) and when we were living together, he would go out and sometimes not come home til the wee hours of the morning. It was horrible. And even HE had to admit that a married guy shouldn't be doing what he was doing (going out to bars on his own). Of course he would add "YOU should make it so I don't want to go". *sigh*

For me, if my H said "I will continue to go out to bars, stay out til the wee hours, not be accountable to you, and you better accept that if you want to reconcile" I would probably have to say "Thanks, but no thanks."

Currently H and I are "dating". I don't have to be "exposed" to whatever his shennanigans are. I don't know if he is still doing that sort of thing or not.

Wow- I am babbling. Sheesh- the bottom line that I was *trying* to get to is that I wonder why we LBSs will accept so little? And why is that WE have to walk around on eggshells hoping to not scare the WAS off? Why is it that OUR needs mean so little and that the WASs needs are SO important? Would we expect so little from our friends?

In particular, in your case Tipper, I am just plain concerned at what your H is doing and I am worried that his actions (even if you are "detached" and "forgive" him and "accept" him) will drag YOU down.

Your needs are valid. You deserve to have them met. As to how to approach you H, I don't know. I am more concerned with the big picture-- and that is that he has a serious problem with alcohol and needs help.

Sorry if my first post to you seems overly harsh. I really am just concerned that you are walking directly into a mine-field and no one is waving their arms wildly to try to stop you.

Trixi,
Thanks for your honesty. You are putting my feelings into words. I am also so afraid of the way we have set up our R. I allow him to do anything he wants becuase we are just dating, and honestly half the time, I dont know what he is doing since we still live seperate.

I guess that is why I am so concerned lately with where we stand. I love having our R back. I am fully dedicated to working on us and our M, and find it fun and challenging. I guess, over the last few weeks I find myself realizing that I have become a push over and accept way too much with out really voicing how I feel about his actions.

I guess in one way, this "overall acceptance" of my H is a good thing. But not when he is doing destructive things. So now I feel like I need to move on to the next step in the DBing process that I have not yet tried. And that would be to become more assertive in a calm and gentle loving way. That way, hopefully I will not end up exploding in a land mine.

I need to learn how to tell my H exactly what I want in our R. My needs are important, and I need to find a way of getting through to my H in a loving way about what I would like.

I have been too afraid to say anything up to this point because, every time I confronted him in the past he would just run. But I think that in the past, I would be cold to him and get mad while I was venting. I need to find a way to vent to him in a way as to not push him away. I need to not get defensive and just be honest with him about some of his actions. I still dont really know how to do it. But it is my next goal.

How are you feeling about your H's behaviors(drinking), do you say anything to him about it. Or is it not that much of a problem?

My H will say the same things about knowing it is not healthy for our M for him to be going to the bars alone. But he still does it. Weird - Huh???
TIPPER

Tipper, I am glad that you took my post as I intended it. $\:\)$

With regard to my H's drinking--I don't really have any idea the extent to which he drinks or goes to bars. I know when we first separated he was non-stop party, party, party. His son (my SS that I helped raise) has a substance abuse problem that he is now in recovery from, and my H offered to have SS move back in with him. When I suggested to H that he might need to curb the drinking down, my H said "If Son can't handle it, then he shouldn't live with me." ?? I said "Do you realize that it sounds like you are picking alcohol over your son?" and he said "no. I could stop drinking if I wanted. I don't want to. I enjoy it and I shouldn't have to just because someone *else* has a problem with it." [eye roll- that was classic 'addict' speak] Despite knowing that son living with him is temporary and despite knowing that he could have a drink elsewhere, he is willing to tell his son "Nevermind, you can't live with me because I don't want to stop drinking in the house." If my H was calling me to get him from DWIs, flaking out on me to go to bars- I would seriously need to have second thoughts about trying to move things forward. I think I am worth more than that. I think you are, too.

I know you love your H, I know you are trying to accept him and not get worked up with what he is doing--but seriously, is this something you *really* want to get MORE involved with?

I don't know if it is my background (alcoholic mother, drug addicted father), but I read your posts and I feel scared for you. I think to myself "Why is she going to settle for so little?" And, I do NOT mean that you are settling for so little by not having your needs met(which you are, of course)-- I mean- settling for a man that would pick a bar over his wife.

You not having your needs met is a problem. Him needing to drink all the time is a BIGGER problem. He will have a heck of a time meeting your needs when he is filling his 'void' with alcohol.

Ugh- I am just not expressing what I want to say; it is so visceral for me.

My analogy is this: You are trying to put a bandaid ("meet my needs") on a gaping wound ("this relationship is in serious jeopardy due to the drinking").

Another analogy-(which will be WAY over the top, so don't take offense-it is really only to get my point across) If you knew your husband was robbing banks and didn't appear to want to stop robbing banks- would you REALLY want to align yourself CLOSER to him? Would your bone of contention REALLY be that he isn't being affectionate enough? Shouldn't it be first about the bank robbing? (I warned you, it was over the top.)

OH OH OH- I just thought of a REALLY good analogy. I have seen stories like this on Dr Phil and Oprah. The husband expresses dissatisfaction with the marriage. Wife scrambles to do 'whatever it takes' to save the marriage. Husband says he wants to do a threesome or watch his wife have sex with another man. Wife doesn't feel good about it, but is so anxious to keep him, she relents and does it. She feels horrible about herself. Her H doesn't respect her. Marriage fails. When I see these stories, I think "WHY did she let that happen? Why was she so desparate for his approval and pseudo-love, that she sacrificed herself?"

Again, I am not trying to be overly harsh- and I maybe I don't understand a dynamic in your situation; but looking in, I see someone that is so scared to lose her H that she will accept anything he is willing to give her, some of which is not good for her.

Now, I know I am one to talk. My H is tossing me crumbs and I have been accepting them. Sometimes I get more than crumbs and that keeps me going; but at some point, I need to have a real relationship with someone that is capable of being my partner.

Hey Tipper-
How's things?

Trixi,
Thanks again for checking in.

I hear what your saying. I am struggeling to feel good about many things in my M right now. However, we have also come such a very long ways. I feel like this whole thing has been a learning process for both of us.

I am just recently starting to feel really scared for our future. But I am not at all willing to give up. There are many positives in my situation still.

His drinking and us living apart are the two things that are bugging me the most, but I have no idea what to do about them. Other than to be patient and hope that my H continues to better himself. He has made some progress in many other areas, except for these two.

He and I are best friends again, and it feels great. I know I wont be able to put up with living apart forever. He knows this. So I need to be patient and see where things go from here. If we were to move back in with each other, his drinking/bar hopping would ultimately slow down. That is why he doesnt want to make the move, because he is just not ready to stop his drinking. He would no longer live right next to all the bars if he were to move back in with me. He also says its because there is no place for him to have his band practices at my place, and his band is so important to him right now. So he is going to stay at his apartment for now. UHG! I dont know how long I can do this, living this way. But I cant quit now.

There are many people who are alcoholics and are in happy marriages. Their signifigant other doesnt always have to leave them due to there drinking. That is why there are things like Alanon. I have had many suggest it to me, but for some reason I just havent tried it yet. I guess I feel like it wont help. I know there general message. I guess if things get worse, I would have to try that before giving up.

My H really is a good man. He never used to drink as much or crave going to bars. I think it is all part of his crisis. He is not out of the woods yet. But I can see him starting to exit at times. I do think that if my H were happier with himself and his career and his life choices, that he would not be acting this way. He has no where to go but up. He is trying to explore changing careers, and he is getting his financial situation back together. I have seen so many small improvements in him, I cant give up now.
Take Care,
TIPPER

Hey Tipper-
I think our H's are more alike, than not.
My H is now in a band. They aren't playing live (yet) but are rehearsing 2-3 times per week and are trying get something recorded.

He is drinking WAY more than when we were together.

We don't live together.

He has a 25yo guy (that is in the same band) living with him. His studio has now take over a huge bonus room that we used to share as on office.
Since I moved out, the room I used for my glass activities is now taken by the roommate, the office we shared is taken up with instruments, mics, etc. The spare room that used to be the guest room is now his office. .. I am quite sure part of why my H doesn't want me to move back in is because he is living it up as a 'single' guy.

My H is my best friend. He took me to Costa Rica in April. We are "dating" exclusively currently.
But.
But I am not sure that I see things moving forward.

I didn't mean to crititcize your desire to save your marriage.
I just wanted to be sure that you are looking out for 'tipper'.
$\:\)$

Hey Tipper and Trixi-
My H may not be in a band but other than that he does sound similar to your H's. We are "dating" but don't live together and he drinks more than he should.

Quote:

Now, I know I am one to talk. My H is tossing me crumbs and I have been accepting them. Sometimes I get more than crumbs and that keeps me going; but at some point, I need to have a real relationship with someone that is capable of being my partner.

This is the exact way I feel. I want more than crumbs...I deserve more than crumbs but I also believe in marriage vows. I hate this!

At times I feel I have had to suck up way too much and my trust is so far gone that I may not ever get it back. If I could forget about the vow part, it almost seems like it would be easier to give up and start over in a new relationship...BUT then I think there would be no guarantee there either so isn't worth fighting for the known commodity?

Tipper, if you believe your H is an alcoholic then it might be a good idea for you to go check out Alanon...or get some individual C. Maybe you get your H to C with you? My H and I have been going for awhile...I think it is helping but he really needs to do a lot of individual work. I keep hoping he will go but he has been avoiding it so far.

(((HUGS)))

Upside

Ok, Tipper, I am going to throw my hat into this ring. First, it really sounds like your H is in a MLC. MLC can take up to 3-7 years to cycle through. Now, if your H were in, lets say, a coma, what would you do? You would go out and do things for YOU to keep creating happiness while keeping a piece of your heart hopeful that he would wake up. You can keep sitting there waiting for him to wake up, it is not healthy for you. It sounds like he keeps cycling - very common for MLC - and you keep getting sucked into it. I am glad that you have made it as far as you have, wished I was having dates with my H, but walking on eggshells SUX. Been there, done that.

There has to be a healthy way to open conversation with your H about creating a possible timeline for him to move back in with you and for cutting back on drinking. He is medicating his MLC still with the alcohol....mine is doing it with OW. Unfortunately, you can not control his actions, but you can control how it affects you. My advise is to detach from him to some degree. Step back from him just a little. He has gotten use to the status quoe, shake it up a bit. Dont be so eger to be at his beck and call. Maybe if he starts to feel like you are slipping away, it will kick in his need to persue and things will change. Just a thought.

Just so you know, I think you have a great possibility to pull through this. You just have to be the strength right now so he has a light to help guide him through it. He has come back to you to some degree, now let him cross the finish line as well. Step back and get happy again.

Trixi, Brokenhearted, and Upside,

You guys are all so great. I cant tell you how nice it is to feel like I am not all alone here. I can not thank you all enough for your support and advice.

This last week with my H has been incredible. I feel like he is starting to commit more to me. It is so nice to feel that way and to see the progress.

Isnt it weird how common all of our men are??? Maybe its just a guy thing! But I agree, definitely MLC!!!

Trixi, You dont have to apologize. I still know that your intentions are pure and good. I understand that I need to look out for me first while I try and save my M. I guess I was just trying to let you know that I cant give up.

If I were being hurt or if he was treating me badly or meanly then I think I would have to change my mind, and completely let go. But he has never been cruel to me or abusive to me. Its just that he abuses alcohol and that means he is often at the bars and away from me. I know it is not healthy for us, and I am pretty sure he knows it too. But for now, He is only making baby steps at getting better and I need to be patient and help support him when I can.

Thanks to all of you! Please stick around, I love having people here that I can relate to and that offer me so much wisdom. This place is a life saver.
TIPPER

Tipper, this may sound harsh so I apologize in advance.

It is one thing for him to go to bars and be away from you. It is another thing to get repeated DWIs. That is not simply disrespectful of you. It is criminal.

This is a serious problem; no parent, no thoughtful person can condone or accept this. MLC or not, DWI is illegal and dangerous. 0.22 is not ok to drive. It imperils innocent people. You wanna get drunk? fine. Wanna get high? fine. Just don't go endangering innocents by jumping into a car.

There is no way the police should have let him go. I have compassion for people in MLC, or people with any problems, but none of them get a pass on drunk driving.

Quote:

There are many people who are alcoholics and are in happy marriages. Their signifigant other doesnt always have to leave them due to there drinking. That is why there are things like Alanon. I have had many suggest it to me, but for some reason I just havent tried it yet. I guess I feel like it wont help.

Quote:

If I were being hurt or if he was treating me badly or meanly then I think I would have to change my mind, and completely let go. But he has never been cruel to me or abusive to me. Its just that he abuses alcohol and that means he is often at the bars and away from me.

I am a non expert, but it seems to me that yours is classic enabling behavior. You are making excuses for him.

I'm not telling you to give up on him. I'm exhorting you to not accept his behavior, and to stop making excuses for him. Alanon has good advice for how to support him (and it is definitely not by making excuses). Lots of people have recommended Alanon. So go, already.

Tipper, are you in IC? Just wondering.

SirPrizeMe and BrokenHearted,
thanks for your suggestions. I know I should look into alanon but I am so afraid that my H would get depressed if I were to let him know I was going.

I know drinking and driving is unacceptable. I dont do it and neither should he. He only does it when I am not with him. If I am with him we always have an alternate plan of getting home.

He told me the only way he would stop is if he gets caught and it hurts his wallet. I said that is not good and you are not learning from this experience. He said he knows and he never wants to ever hurt anyone else. So his concious does pop up from time to time.

I am not in counseling becuase I tried it last summer with two places and neither of them seemed to help. Both the counselors were pushing me to leave the marriage. I just dont think I have to give up. I want this to work out.

I am considering starting it up again and trying someone new, but I have not gotten a lot out of it in the past.
TIPPER

Journaling,
Well, when I look quickly at my last few posts they seem to be so doom and gloom. So on a better note, there have been some improvements in my sitch lately.

My H has been staying here regulary 5 days a week. The other two nights he has his gigs, and then we go our seperate ways home.

He only went to the bar 3 times last week. That is way better than every night-all night.

He does admit that he has a drinking problem with out me bugging him anymore, now I try to support him and reward him when he makes healthy choices.

He just put in a hot tub at my place that he got in exchange for a roof job he did. He lives in an apartment so we put it here. We still need to hookup the electrical.

We are starting two new bowling leagues on the weekends together, one with my family and our old friends and the other league with his friends from his band.

We have created a balence between hanging out with our old friends and his new friends and a even a bit with my family. It feels good, like he is finally starting to trust enough to commit more.

He said the other day, that he was actually starting to think about wanting to have kids more and more lately. I was shocked. He said this to me last spring also in one of our short attempts to reconcile. He knows I want to have kids within a few years and he has always been kindof negative about the idea in the last few years. So he knows where I stand and I have now backed off. It is amazing to hear him now being the one to bring it up unprovoked.

I am happy, I love my H with all my heart. I hated being away from him, I missed his touch and care. I feel blessed to have this opportunity to reconcile with my H. I hope that some day we are healthy enough in our M to have kids together.

Take Care,
TIPPER

Just poppin in,

Things are going so good lately. My H has started staying the night at my place all but one night on a weekly basis. He has wanted to stay home more often instead of always having to visit the bar. It is wonderful to have him here.

School (work) has been going good. I just started car pooling with 4 other co-workers and saving tons of $ on gas. The kids have been nice and my class sizes are smaller than I am used to having so it makes for a better learning environment.

I had the day off today by surprise due to power outages from a huge wind storm over night. So I went and got my Hair cut and tried this glazed thing- I love it. I also got some new clothes at the mall so I am feeling happy.

Overall, Live is grand. I hope we keep making progress. I have been much more relaxed with things lately. I still long for my H and I to move into a house somewhere together, but I need to have patience. It has been 5 months of piecing and still no budging on his part, but at least he stays here with me most nights.
Peace,
TIPPER

Tipper, glad you are doing well, glad you are enjoying your husband.

About the counseling - and you leaving other counselors - good for you! If they are guiding you to a place that feels wrong, walk away. Good! I interviewed a bunch of counselors before going, and that way was able to find one that I felt I could agree with and trust.

I would be careful about the having children decision. That's for another time. not now.

SirPrizeMe,

Yeah, I agree with you. I want kids some day because I always have since I was young. I always pictured myself having a loving H and family. I cant believe that I am now 30 yrs. old and still have no kids or cant even consider them anytime soon. It stinks. Most of our old friends are starting to have them now.

My H has still been loving and coming over often. However, there have also been a lot of times where he has blown me off for his buddies, or has come over much later than planned. I guess I am feeling a bit hurt today since he was very late coming over last night.
TIPPER

Tell me what kind of house you are dreaming of...?

Hi Tipper-
You are still very young and have plenty of time to have kids. Make sure your M is on solid ground and that you and your H are emotionally stable. Work your issues out first. Trust me, you do not want to be a single mom...it is very difficult and extremely unfair to the child.

Keep your focus on rebuilding your M for now. Can you get your H to go to MC with you?

Believe me - I know & i will defenitely wait on the kid thing. But I know that I would like to have a family some day. I am young but not if I have to start over. My h is still so in MLC. It is so scarey to think that he could change his mind and leave again. We are not stable yet.

We had a set back this weekend while at his rents for dinner my H made a terribly bad comment about my brother and I started to cry. It shows my he really isnt over his issues yet at all.

Also, my H keeps making comments about wanting to stay living in the center of town because it is so convieneint for life. I said, its because its next to all the bars and he couldnt argue with me. But this is a drastic change from our old dreams of buying a house on the river in the country part of our town.

My H's main concerns lie with his band, his buddies at the bar, feeling accepted in town , and his own desires that are now all different from our past dreams. I am so worried, our future looks so bleak.
TIPPER

Well after just a few days, I feel much better about things.
My H has been staying away from the bars this week and coming here right after work - it is great.
I feel like I am seeing the old H return, the man I love and trust and that respects and honors me.
He has been much more invested in us. I hope these improvements last.
TIPPER

well THAT's a big switch.
hmmm.....

I know it is a big switch.

My H has suffered from depression since being diagnosed in 2004. We both think it is bipolar disorder due to his extreme highs and lows. He refuses to take medications becuase then he cant drink -it messes with his stomach.

So, I tend to watch him be really nice one week and then the next week be really distant and cold. He especially suffers in the winter time when seasonally off of work he gets really depressed.

I feel like this week is one of his good weeks and last week was one of the bad. He sometimes is in depression or mania for more than a week at a time - it varies. However, we are both aware of his problem.

I tend to ride his roller coaster with him. When he is happy and wants to invest time in our M - I get pumped up. But when he is miserable and distant - I get really worried that it will lead him to leave me for the 4th time.

Living with a bipolar person is not easy, it is a challenge and it often effects my emotions also. I need to learn to detatch more during those bad times.

Right now, My H is still invested in us and he is going through a period of happieness. He is aware that the winter is coming and he is trying to plan out work so he will not have too much down time to get depressed. This is the first time ever that he has approached the winter with this sort of honesty and desire to not let it overcome him. I hope his efforts will pay off.
Take Care,
TIPPER

I'm not sure if this will help, but have you guys tried those lightbulbs that are supposed to help with winter depression. They mimic the sun or something. I think they're pricey for lightbulbs but it may be worth a try.

Tipper my h too is depressed could be manic or bipolar as well. Fortunately he is taking meds. My h commented to our c that he was suprised how well the meds work.

If your h doesn't want to take meds, you could try the combination of 5htp and St Johns Wart, both over the counter herbs. They are mood enhancers and I take them and notice a real difference. My h was taking them too before meds he noticed a difference, but nothing like the meds now. Maybe because of the severity of my h's depression.

Also our c has mentioned some form of physical fitness and eating healthy too could help with depression.

Sounds like your h is making progress!

Freindlygal and Glamgirl,
thanks for your advice. I will mention both if the opportunity knocks before winter. Maybe I will buy some of the St. Johns just to have it available for him.
Thanks,
TIPPER

Well this weekend was great. My H and I had a blast. We made chilli together for the first time and it was great. We went canoeing with our dog at my H's favorite Lake. Then we went bowling on our leage. We also went and watched his old best freind sing & accoustic jam at a bar one night.

I am glad my H was with me the whole weekend since his new best friend was home visiting from his travels at work and when he went out he got jumped at my H's & his favorite bar. My H would have gotten involved if he was there, so I am so glad he wasnt. Especially since his new best friend is now in a leg cast and on crutches and needs to have surgery.

Now this means that his new best friend is out of work and he will be home and wanting my H to go to the bar more often. My H has improved so much lately, and now this. Ugh!!!

Oh well, I will hope for the best and maybe this new best friend of his will be more distant now that he is home after working away this summer. See, they were very close when we were seperated and not yet peicing. Then when we started peicing, his best buddy got a traveling job so he has been gone a while but is back now for the long run.
TIPPER

Hi Tipper-
Sounds like things are progressing. I am glad you had a nice weekend with your H.

Is your H drinking less? I hope your H's friend being back doesn't cause him to go back to his old ways. Time will tell...continue to be patient.

(((HUGS)))

Upside,

Yes, my H is drinking less, but not by much. It would still be considered too much for most people.

I am surprised that my H hasnt been stuck up his new BF's a$$ now that he is home again. But my H is still out with others at the bars and sometimes ocasionally with that friend. It isnt as much as I had thought when he first got hurt and came home.

I have been trying to be patient, but I am so unsatisfied it is scary. IDK what to do anymore. So I will do nothing untill I get lead in the right direction. I need to see some changes soon. I have many issues with our Relationship. My H is very self focused right now.
TIPPER

Every baby step is good! Hang in there!

Sg,
thanks for the positive thoughts I can really use them right now. I know that every baby step is great, but it is the gigantic steps backwards that scare me right now.

My H dissed me again last night. We had plans, and he changed them and didnt call until he was over an hour late to say he was gonna hang with his buddy longer and he didnt want me to be mad.

I said, O.k. and told him goodnight and I would see him the next evening after trivia. He called and said he wanted to come over right away as soon as I took the invite away. I said, fine and he drunkenly came over wasted and threw up all evening.

He kept apologizing but it is a constant issue. I have decided that from now on I will make seperate plans for tuesday night since he often blows me off to drink with his buddies that night.
That way I wont be let down when he has to go to the bar and cancel or ignore our plans.

This is so frusterating dealing with him being such an alcoholic. He always used to drink when we were M'd living together - but it was never a problem or excessive. Now he lives and breaths drinking alcohol. It is scary how different if makes his personality. I dont know what to do anymore. Keep being a doormat that gets stood up weekly - or get mad at him.

He knew I was mad last night with out me saying anything out of anger.
TIPPER

Things have been going great this week. My H has spent a lot of time with me doing fun things. I feel so much better when my H shows that he wants to spend time with me.

We have a wedding to go to tomorrow and we are staying over in a hotel. It should be a blast. It is our old H.S. buddy that used to rent out the other side of our duplex we lived in before my H's MLC. I cant wait. And this is a big step for him to come to one of our old buddies weddings since he usually chooses not to hang with the past friends we had.

I'll stop in when I get back,
TIPPER

Well, I am just here to give an update.

Overall, things are fine. But I am feeling like I am going nuts. I am really stressed out and worrying that I am not getting what I deserve out of our R.

This was my week,
* Mon= He blew me off to go drink.
* tues= he was unbelievably at my house when I got home - but only because he was hung over & didnt work & wanted to watch my t.v. all day in comfort. It wastnt to see me. We hardly talked all night due to my hurt and his tiredness.
* Wed= He called me when I got home from work and wanted to go bowling & then we made dinner at my house and watched t.v.. He was texting people the ENTIRE NIGHT LONG. Talk about annoying, I have no idea who or why.
* Thur= I had to work late and he knew I would be home at 8:30 and when I called him then I got no response. A half an hour later he finally called and said he would come by. Then it took him 45 min to drive 5 miles to my place. Obviously he was at the bar drinking again with out me. By the time he got to my place I was falling asleep.

So, I guess I am looking back at this week with a lot of stress to be in this situation I am in. I feel like his actions are saying to me that he is happy to be with me - but only on his time and when it is convienient to him. He is still in " ME - MODE".

He also has been critizising me for any and every flaw lately. I hate it when he does this, I am such a defensive person and so it is hard for me to do this 180 of biting my lip and turning it around and laying into him for his flaws. But I did well and didnt respond defensively to any of his critisizms. This is my biggest 180 I can and have done. But I am finding it hard to want to stick to it lately since I feel so let down by him.

Anyways, I know he is happy. He tells me all time lately. And he has been acting really happy with our R when we are together for the most part.

He really has no idea that all these little things are bugging me.
TIPPER

Ok, I got blown off again tonight.

I need advice.

My H often blows me off and chooses going to the bars alone on week nights. It happens about 1-2 times a week.

It is happening enough for me to feel rejected and really unstable with him.

I love him and we still have a great time together. He seems to really be happy.

I dont know how to get the results that I want. I would like to have a loving H that wants to be with me instead of at the bars. But right now he seems to want both the M and his Freedom. It is starting to kill me. 7 months of piecing and he is still so drunk and has no desire to move back in together.

What should I do different. Usually, I say "No problem and I understand" and let him go do what ever it is that he is out doing with out me. I know I cant control him. But I can change the way I react. It is like he knows it hurts me but he avoids the topic or gets defensive. It has pushed him away before when I said I thought he drank too much and that it wasnt healthy for us to try to reconcile while he is at the bars all the time.

I dont want to push him away again, but I feel like a doormat.

Any advice???
TIPPER

Tipper,
I posted this to you on Aug 30th:

Quote:

Tipper, I have been following your situation, but never felt like I had anything to offer, because, frankly, I am worried about all the gymnastics you are going thru to reconcile with someone that needs to get help. Serious help. If he did get a DUI (or God forbid, seriously injure or kill another person) the financial/emotional impact would be huge. It would take BOTH of you down.

My H seems to have a bit of a drinking issue (doesn't seem to know when to stop once he gets started) and when we were living together, he would go out and sometimes not come home til the wee hours of the morning. It was horrible. And even HE had to admit that a married guy shouldn't be doing what he was doing (going out to bars on his own). Of course he would add "YOU should make it so I don't want to go". *sigh*

For me, if my H said "I will continue to go out to bars, stay out til the wee hours, not be accountable to you, and you better accept that if you want to reconcile" I would probably have to say "Thanks, but no thanks."

Currently H and I are "dating". I don't have to be "exposed" to whatever his shennanigans are. I don't know if he is still doing that sort of thing or not.

Wow- I am babbling. Sheesh- the bottom line that I was *trying* to get to is that I wonder why we LBSs will accept so little? And why is that WE have to walk around on eggshells hoping to not scare the WAS off? Why is it that OUR needs mean so little and that the WASs needs are SO important? Would we expect so little from our friends?

In particular, in your case Tipper, I am just plain concerned at what your H is doing and I am worried that his actions (even if you are "detached" and "forgive" him and "accept" him) will drag YOU down.

Your needs are valid. You deserve to have them met. As to how to approach you H, I don't know. I am more concerned with the big picture-- and that is that he has a serious problem with alcohol and needs help.

Sorry if my first post to you seems overly harsh. I really am just concerned that you are walking directly into a mine-field and no one is waving their arms wildly to try to stop you.

I have continued to be surprised at how no one talks says anything about how he continues to disrespect you. There was another post I did on this thread on Aug 30th that you might want to re-read. Talked about that from "outside" it looks like you are so anxious to be with him that you are willing to sacrifice yourself and your esteem.

I'm going to leave it at that; I seem to be the dissenting voice.

I really want you to find happiness-- and if standing up for what you want/need means you "push him away"- is that what you want for yourself?

Trixi,
Thanks again for your response.

I do agree with you that my H has a drinking problem and that he needs to get help. But he refuses. I know I cant change that.

We have a great relationship and I would do anything to save my M.

I do agree with you though and your concerns about my H disrespecting me when he blows me off. He knows he shouldnt be out drinking alone since he is a married man. But he does feel guilty about it afterwards.

This drinking at bars with out me behavior is new and has only been this way for the last year. I do still think he is in MLC.

I do feel like a doormat sometimes and that I put up with way too much of it. I am just very afraid of pushing him away.

I am glad that you are honest with me when you look in from the outside. I need to hear it. You are so right about me compromising my self esteem. It crushes me evertime he goes out alone.
TIPPER

Quote:

You are so right about me compromising my self esteem. It crushes me evertime he goes out alone.

And THAT is what worries me the most.

I know you would "do anything" to save the marriage-and it looks like you are. But right now, is this the sort of marriage you want to save?

IOW,

Quote:

if standing up for what you want/need means you "push him away"- is that what you want for yourself?

And you know what, maybe I am pushing you so hard because I see me in you. My H has come back around--not enough to have us actually move in together, or even call it "reconciling"--but he does want me to be in his life while he figures out "whatever it is" that he needs to learn.
I think the difference is: IF he said he was "working" on the marriage, I would have MUCH higher expectations. He has made it clear he is not ready to 'work' on the marriage. This allows me some freedom to explore my own life, meet other people, etc.

Here is some classic DB advice (normally administered when the WAS is actually walking away and not claiming to want to work on the marriage) "Have no expectations and you won't be disappointed."

How does your H feel about consistently hurting you? What is his explanation? If you have plainly said "It hurts me when you go out to the bar without me" and then he goes and does it anyway, he is deliberately, knowingly, choosing to hurt you!

If you really don't want to hold his feet to the fire and stand up for yourself, then you will need to GAL and detach.

Tipper,
Can you restate or summarize what 2 or 3 relationship goals you are focusing on for these next upcoming few weeks?

Laurie,

Yea, I certainly can. I would love to try and refocus so this is good for me.

One of my past goals started to get a baby step. so now I need to update it. The goal was : I would like my H to start talking about moving back in with each other. He actually mentioned it for the first time this past week end after 7 months of peicing. Yeah!!!

My Relationship goals Now:
Goal 1= for my H to speak of moving back in together again (by buying and fixing up my G-ma's old house - it would be perfect for us).
Goal 2= To not say its ok, if he blows me off. The next time it happens, I again need to stay busy and act as if. Then afterwards when he sees me I will not say that I understand but rather I will let him know its not really ok but that I am glad to see him.
Goal 3=To spend more quality nights together this week than last week. At least 4-5 would be nice.

Let me know what you think
TIPPER

Tipper,
So, just to restate your next steps:

#1 - Have H get a bit more consistent about bringing up moving back.
Ways to encourage that:
a. discuss buying and fixing G'mas house

and (I am adding this)

b. begin or continue to behave and relate in ways that
helped get us back together before
**You have gotten back together 2 times before, is that right? If so, I'd like to hear what you did that helped him want to come home those previous times. That will offer clues as to how to answer #1.b.

#2 Tipper, finish this sentence:
Instead of blowing me off he would do/say or would not do/say _____.
Goal #2 seems to describe what actions you are considering doing. If you were successful at those actions, what response from H would you be wanting to get? Also, could you give me a specific example of what he is doing when he blows you off?

#3 Have 4-5 quality nights together
How many nights have you been together (on the average) the last 2 weeks?
What does it mean to have quality nights with H? What is happening on those nights and what is not happening that make those nights good?

Tipper, please continue to help clarify and we'll continue our talk!

By the way, from looking at some of your posts, it sounds like both of you have managed to heal the relationship a number of times - that is great and it says a lot. Also, you seem to have been very patient and enduring in the midst of your H's drinking history. I don't fully understand the extent of his history and how that impacts you and your relationship, but I certainly hear your high level of commitment in this relationship. You have my respect and support!

Take care, Laurie

Laurie,
Thanks for your help.

I will try to answer those questions you had and finish up refining my goals.

Well, Over the past three days my H has brought up moving into my G-ma's house several times. We are both pretty happy with the thought of it. And I am psyched to see that it wasnt just nonsense babble. He is serious about it, and the house will fit both our needs in so many ways. So, I think my First goal is on its way.

In Part 1b to that goal, you asked what brought him back the last few times, and it is honestly several things. Every time he came back, it seemed out of the blue. But I definetly was mysetious and went dark several times. I tried to looked great, and stayed busier than a bee in terms of GALing. I never would call or bother him. We hardly spoke all three times in between his coming and going.

But mostly I think it was time apart that made him realize what he was missing. I also think that by me GALing it impressed him. So I keep this up still with art nights, bowling leagues, trivia nights, and keeping in touch with our old group of friends.

Goal #2: When my H blows me off it is so that he can go out and drink with one or many of his several bar buddies. He usually will get too drunk on accident and then can not drive to come see me on those nights. It usually happens when we had previously made plans to get together, and then he will run into someone out of the blue. The response I would like is for my H to put me on his list of priorities and to follow through with our plans (basically honoring me as his wife, instead of boozing). This week he has done very well, and he even came over on a night that we usually set aside to go seperate ways.

I will come back later to answer more and to talk about goal #3.
TIPPER

Continuing Goal #2I would like it, if our plans got changed less often. And it would be nice to find out about our change of plans sooner rather than two or three hrs after we were supposed to get together. It was happening about once every week or so for a few months. I do believe he has become aware of the negative effects that it has on us. This happened with out me complaining, it was like he all of a sudden he just expressed to me that he will try better to keep our plans and stay away from the bars.

Goal #3:On average, we are usually together 5-6 nights a week. But last week he did poorly and drank heavily which meant he couldnt drive to see me as much so I would just do my own GAL activities to stay busy. Last week he only came over 3 nights, and he broke or changed several of our plans. I was upset but never let him know it. He then suddenly changed and started to show me lots of affection and wanted to spend lots of time together.

When I say quality nights, I guess that I mean that we will spend the whole evening together doing something we both like. Rather than him showing up at 10 or 11pm after drinking all evening just to spend the night with me.

So far, since he spoke to me about knowing that he needs to try harder to stop the drinking - he has been at my place every night this week for almost the entire evening each time. Yeah. He is trying and I am so happy. It is like he read my mind.

TIPPER

I am again noticing this strong pattern my H seems to be following.

He will be very distant and drunk and wasted hanging out at the bars for a few nights in a row throughout the week.

Then the next week he will be very kind and loving and helpful and hanging out at my place a lot.

It is hard on me, becuase I never know what kind of a night I am going to have.

I rarely make plans with him anymore since I get so sick of him blowing me off. Now we base each night on a night by night basis depending on his actions.

He has been saying things an awful lot lately to me about himself being a drunk. And he says how it is so easy for him to go to a bar, but always so hard for him to leave. He calls himself a punk and says he has always been one (but he wasnt ever before all this happened).

He talks as though he is warning me that he will always be an alcoholic and that I need to accept it and expect him to be at the bars a lot.

I told him last night that I didnt really want to stay at the restaurant we ate at to get more drinks after dinner. He kept asking and rechecking if we could stay. I said, I was tired and I had to drive home so I could leave with out him if he wants. He said, No and that he would come with me.

He made me feel guilty so I said to him that he was making me feel like I am a slug just becuase at 9 o'clock I wanted to go home instead of stay and drink on a work night. I also get up at 4:45am every day and he doesnt need to get up until he wants to. I feel like I am so lame compared to the lifestyle he wants.

Things have been good between us, I just freak out so much about our future. Whether or not we will ever live together again or not.

The thing is,that My H came back to me (as I so dreamed and desired and prayed for), however unlike before he is an alcoholic and going to bars daily/nightly.

I dont know what to do or how to feel about it.
TIPPER

Well I am scared.

I dont know what to think.

My H is so loving and kind when he is with me and we have fun together.

But Lately he has been distancing himself in a major way. He has been at the bar drinking almost every night for the last two weeks. He has left me alone on many of these nights, with out much concern for what I am up to.

Friday, he drank for 4 hrs at a bar with out me, before we went to see a play.

On sat. as soon as I got up he left in my jeep to do a few hrs of work, since he didnt have his truck here. So I had no ride for the entire day. I was stuck here while he text me that he was gonna help a friend move. Then they went to the bar. I didnt see him till 8 and I couldnt go do anything. When he came home at 8 we watched a movie and fell asleep half way through.

Then on sun, he stayed here in the morning and we bowled all afternoon and night on our league. He drank all day. He had band practice afterwards and said he would be over when he was done. I went home and fell asleep on the couch. He came over at 1am finally and woke me up to move me up to the bedroom. I was so disappointed that I didnt ask him why he was so late.

Then on mon. he plays with his band at a bar. He text me to let me know they would play later than normal. He was there all night. I got their after my art night was done at 10:40ish and they still didnt start playing yet. So we got to talk for about 10 min before he went on. I told him I was gonna leave half way through So he thanked me for coming and gave me a kiss goodbye.

After I got home from work today, He text me to let me know he had a kiawanas meeting and that he would probably not see me tontight because he is so busy getting ready for the t-day race.
I didnt respond.

So it looks like he is ditching me again tonight. There is no reason that he cant come here tonight after his meeting as usual. No stores will be open that late, and his only responsibilty for this race is buying water and food goods. So for him to say he is too busy is just a line a crap. He just wants to stay out and drink and I am pretty sure thats what he has been doing all day.

HELP. What can I do. What am I doing wrong. I feel like I am loosing him again.
TIPPER

Tipper

To me it sounds like he is cycling. My h did the same thing. The father along my h was in MLC it seemed like he was cycling faster. My H was drinking big time during that time too. I let it go and let him finish his crisis. I know how you feel though. I thought my h was up to no good.

Who knows with these MLCer's anyway. Snodderly helped me alot through this part. Maybe she will stop by.

Y

Yellowrose,
I cant tell you how much I appreciate you stopping by. I know that you have gone through much of the same process I have been through this far.

I have a long ways to go though. At least it feels like it.
I have been crying all night. Mostly because I knew I was right and My H didnt really have responsibilities for the race on thurs. but instead he is out drinking with one of his cousins.

He finally told me this after he was out drinking all night and I text him to have a good night and that I love him. He text back that he loves me too and that his cousing wants to take him out tonihgt. I said be safe. He text back "yup". And that is that.

I felt a bit let down with his comment "yup" when he knows as well as I do that he and his cousin will be 30 mins away down in the city drinking (most likely at some strip club because thats his cousins style) and will drive home drunk I am sure.

I dont know what to do any more. I am a teacher and a coach. I have lots of things going for me and my H never used to act like this.

It helps to know that your H cycled alot before setteling down for good. How do you know when it is over. Finally. I mean, really I am going insane in terms of my emotions and I just dont know how much I can take. The cycling I am seeing is unreal. But when we are together things are magecal still till this day if not even more than when we were 15 and 16 yrs old in H.S.

I know I love my H. That is no doubt. He is my one and only the way I see it. I have not ever met someone that has turned my head or made me more interested in in a rel. with someone than my H. I get hit on a lot , enough to know that I will not have to be loneley the rest of my life - if my H were to leave. I sure hope it doesnt get to that.

I envy you and all that you have worked for. If you went through this cycling and had success it gives me hope. I want my H to want to be with me. I want him to stop his crazy drinking habits he recently picked up with out me.

How do I get through this time. Do I stay quiet, or do I let him know how I really feel (which is lonely and disrespected).

Please stay in touch, you have walked these steps and I need as much advice as I can get.
TIPPER

Tipper

Snodderly advised me when I was at this point that this is where alot of the LBS's give up. It is very hard and frustrating.

I kept my mouth shut, let him do what he needed to do. At the very end I was out of patience and I told him that he needed to get it together and until he could do that, he needed to stay away from me, no calling or coming over. I think that finally got to him. Of couse it did take some time but he did tell me when I did that he was afraid of loosing me for good.

I will check on you later. Keep doing what you are doing, you are doing better than you think.

Y

Yellowrose,

Thanks again for the response. This place is all I have. All my other friends dont want to hear it anymore. They think he will never change.

The thing is that I feel stuck.

When you told me how you stood up to your H about getting his act together, Its like de ja vu.

I allready did this last spring when he tried to return to our M but was going out every night. After a week of that, I said to him that I didnt think that reconciliation was a good idea when he is out drinking all the time. He said fine, you just dont accept me for who I am (very immaturly) and then grabbed his beer from my fridge and I didtn see him again for about 3 months.

I put my foot down, he left again. He came back in may and was very apologetic and told me he would work on his drinking. He was doing ok for a while. Like all summer. Then when I went back to work teaching in the fall he started going back to the bars more and more. And now he is there every day again.

Do I put my foot down again, only to send him running. Or do I stay quiet and deal with this mistreatment.

He still hasnt called me today, when he knows I didnt have work. His truck was at his place at 5 when I drove by to get my oil changed. I think he is pulling away from ME. What do I do?

TIPPER

Well I blew up.

I just couldnt take it anymore.

I let him know last night (very emotionally) that he is at the bars too much for me to handle. I told him that I am lonely and sad alot. I told him that I need a Husband to be able to spend my nights with and make plans with and cook dinners for,ect...

We went in circles for about an hour. We kept getting off topic and it would turn into a fight about why he left and ugliness from our past. I did my best to not do that and every now and then I would stop us and tell him I dont want to fight about the past I just am lonely now.

He understood, but now he seems really awkward around me. We actually ended the spat on a good note and he stayed at my place for the night.

I really hope I didnt blow it for good. I said what I needed to and he was defensive in many ways but also I think he Heard me.
I guess we will see.

What a mess I have made. Now we are both down and out and its thanksgiving. We have to act normal around our families and its gonna be hard.

Happy turkey day everyone!!!
TIPPER

Tipper

You didn't blow it. You said what has been building inside you for a while. I think they need to hear it when they are ready. Now sit back and watch. My H was very uncomfortable around our house too. He used to say that it didn't feel like home anymore. It's guilt. If it makes you feel any better my H drank more than ever at the end of his MLC.It's like the last hurrah before coming back home.

Go and enjoy your Thanksgiving with your family. I am keeping you in my prayers.

Y

Dear Tipper,
As I am catching up on your recent relationship situation, can I make an assumption about what one goal you might have right now (based on your feedback to me a few weeks ago)?

Goal - (combining 2 & 3): To have H spend more time with me these next few weeks and less time at the bar. (In other words, act as if he really has heard you!)

How to achieve this goal -

1. Recover from our blow up and restore calm and a civil relationship. (My guess you have already done this, right?)

2. Act according to your stated needs.
Tipper, you told him you are very lonely and want him to spend more time with you. And you said you thought he heard you and then said "I guess we will see". So, what are you going to do differently now that you've laid it on the table?

Whatever behavior you have shown lately, it has gotten you mixed results from what you've shared. In fact, lately it has gotten worse. Now, you've laid it on the line. I don't know all you had told him, but if you want your H to take you seriously, then I would ask you to consider acting consistent to the words you have spoken.

For instance (I am being hypothetical here), if you have told him you can't handle not knowing if he will show up when the 2 of you have made plans, then I strongly encourage you to do something different about those nights you have made plans. If you normally just wait for him by the phone, then change that. Go out yourself, don't answer the phone, take a bath, etc. Or, make plans differently - let him know you'd love to see him, but by 5PM, if you'd don't hear from him, then you will make other plans. Just some ideas.....

My point is that words have very little impact if we do not follow through. On the other hand, those words have a lot more impact if you back them up with action. Does that help? I hope it gives you encouragement to think about what you've said and to make changes in your behavior that will speak more clearly and powerfully to help your R.

Take care,

YellowRose & Laurie,

Whew, what a week we have had.

Amazingly, since I opened up to my H and told him about my concerns with him and the bar, I have seen a totally new H.

He is trying really hard right now to not mess things up. I can tell becuase he has not been away from me and at the bars since the fight. He has been very loving and kind and generous. He has been wonderful.

We did so many nice things over the rest of the thanksgiving break and I can tell that he had fun too.

Our very best friends just told everyone on turkey day that they are ten weeks pregnant. I think this was another form of a wake up call for my H. He has brought it up several times since we heard the news and I think it is making him slowly get a reality check more and more.

Also another couple we used to hang with all the time told us at thanksgiving that they just bought a really expensive house on the road my H and I have dreamed of living on forever. We both are a bit jealous of them and where they are at. But overall, I am happy for all my friends that are finally growing up and moving to the next stage of thier lives.

I cant even believe that my H is still sticking with me and our M. I thought for sure that my honesty with him would send him running away again. But instead He and I both have agreed that it has brought us closer becuase we are learning how to face our problems.

I am so greatful for this blessing. I know that my H is still in MLC. It always was and still is about his lack of a solid job and the lack of anything to show for all the work he has done in the last 13yrs or so. He is still bouncing job ideas around. This week he was talking about not persuing firefighting anymore and looking into getting his brokers license instead.

He is so frusterated about not being where he wants to be in his life and career. He told me he goes to the bar so much becuase he has no place he feels is like home. I offer my Home but he has issues with it and wont move back in. I can understand to a point. But realistically he and I know that the bar is no kind of substitution for a comfy home.

I do believer my H is nearing the end of his crisis and it is putting me a bit more at ease when I look back to the start of this whole mess. However, I am not in the clear yet and he has a ways to go before he will feel whole again.

I unfortunately feel kind of guilty and bad for blowing up at him and I dont really want the upper hand by anymeans. But now I feel like the dust is still setteling and only time will tell what he will do with what I said to him.

If he blows me off on a night we should be together or have plans made, than I certainly will let him know that its unacceptable and I will make alternate plans as you (laurie) suggested.

Thanks again and I will stay posted,
TIPPER

Well, that totally new H was short lived.

Things arent terrible but I have a bad feeling.

Since I blew up at him things were going so well and I think I rattled him and caught him off guard.

Now he has had time to think about what I said and process it. And he has started to rebel. He said He cant change who he is and that I hurt him the other night.

I reassured him that I love him and that I was just getting lonely and sad that he was at the bars so often. He was drunk on friday when I got home from work he asked me to meet him out for a happy hour. This was the first he chose the bar over home since the fight. So I met him out.

We had a great weekend together. He certainly put in a few jabs about how harsh he thought I had been on him. Then tonight after bowling he had a band practice to go to and told me he would be over when their done.

About a half hour later he was calling me and telling me that he wont be able to come by becuase he and the band will be partying and he doesnt want to drive wasted.

I said ok and I love him and be safe. He said I hope your not mad and I said no but thanks for the call letting me know.

I can handle this only a few times this week before I will say anything again. I dont mind him going out when he tells me what is going on. But when he does it more nights than we get to have together it becomes a problem. I have made him aware. He knows how I feel.

I feel like now the ball is in his court to prove to me that he can follow through. I cant change what he wants to do and dont want to try and control his actions or choices. If he chooses the bar over me too many times again I will feel obligated to stand up for myself again.

Tommorow night he has his gig and we only ever get to see each other for the hour that he plays because I do art night. Then we go our seperate ways. This is ok with me becuase it is planned.

I guess I will have to see how the rest of the week goes.
TIPPER

I guess I over-reacted when I posted last night.

I thought my H was choosing to party over being at home with me on a sunday night. I said, no problem and that it was fine. I literally have no other choice than to leave him. So now I just accept what he wants to do and I accept that I cant change it no matter how hard I wish.

But sometimes the Lord is looking out for me. For us. like last night for instance. My H called me back about a half hour after he told me he was gonna be out partying and he said he wanted to come over if the offer still stood. I said sure.

It was 10 o'clock on a sunday so I had nothing going on and I couldnt even try to come up with a reason why He shouldnt. Even though I was kindof feeling like 2nd best compared to his band and friends. Something must have fallen through with one of his buddies and therefore they choose not to party and only then did he want to come back to my place.

Whatever the reason, I didnt ask. He came and stayed the night as he should. We had a good evening. But its only cause I got lucky and really I would have been alone all night if things went the way he wanted.

So we are still on a good note and he may still try to rebel due to my nagging about his alcoholism last week.

Time will tell. I am happy he choose to come over last night. I just hope he continues to choose Us instead of Them & the bars.
I though we were gonna be in for a bad week, but I shouldnt have been so negative. I feel like we have a good start to this next week now.
TIPPER

Tipper

Don't give up. IMHO I still think you did the right thing with telling him how you felt. Hang in there.

Y

Thanks for the support YR.

I am happier now that I have spoke my mind.

I am happy with the way my H has been more conscious about our M since I did speak my mind.

I realized that I still need to work on my own skills and not forget to use that stop sign when I am emotional and not to go off on tangents, get defensive or go in circles when we argue.

I am probably going to sign up on internet alanon meetings to get some more support. I looked into it today. I think it may help.

My H had a job fall through today and so he went to the bar all day instead. I went down to see his gig from 10-11 and then we go our seperate ways. He said he would come over tommorow for dinner. He has been coming over much more regularly this last week or so.

I have a lot to be greatful for. I am so happy to be able to have this chance at Reconciliation with my H. I just need more patience with dealing with the alcoholism.
TIPPER

Things have been great lately with our M.

My H has made many efforts to show that he cares for me and doesnt want to loose me due to his drinking. He has cut back a lot and has not been spending all his nights at the bars. He has been calling me and letting me know his where abouts more often too.

I have been delightfully surprised. We have had such a good couple of weeks together since thanksgiving.

My H actually seems happy for once. He usually hates the holidays but this year he has been a good sport so far. He just did my kitchen counter-tops/faucet/sink over all new for a christmas present. He has gone to several holiday parties with me and we have a few more we plan on going to. I dont need to pull his teeth to do it, he has been ok with it all.

I am happy and I feel like it is helping me to heal my deeply hurt heart. I like working on our reconciliation while it feels healthy like this. For so long I was feeling like my H was just always gone drinking and that our R was a scam.

I hope things continue on the same way with us honoring and respecting each other. Giving each other our time in quality ways and trying to satisfy each others needs.

This christmas is going to be so much better than the last. I sugested last month that we go seperate ways on christmas day since it causes him so many problems and issues to deal with or face my family. He said that would be great. So I left it at that, but that was in the heat of the moment.

I dont want him to really not come to my families house. He knows he is invited but I dont know his final plans. I let him know I dont want him to come if he feels too uncomfortable. He hasnt really told me his plans though. I think I will suggest to him that he could skip the morning breakfast and gifts. And just come over later for dinner after he went to his rents for the day. any thoughts???
TIPPER

Tipper

It is sounding really good! Take it slow and easy!

Y

Update:

Things have been so wonderful lately it is almost too good to be true feeling.

My H came to Christmas at my folks and things went well.

H has been really happy with life lately. And so have I.

We have spent much time together since I spoke my mind to him around thanksgiving time. And whats even better is that he is not constantly going to the bars.

H has been very understanding that he needs to let me know what he is up to when he is not with me. It helps me feel at ease.

H and I have actually started to talk seriously about moving back in with each other. I didn't want to push him and was very patient about bringing it up at all. He was the one that actually said to me that he would like to see it happen and that he feels it will help us to connect even more.

So we are hoping to buy my deceased grandmothers house that my rents have been holding on to and paying taxes on for 3 yrs so they want to sell it and would love to see it stay in the family.

My H and I have been talking about buying this house since march of 2007 right before he left me for the first time.

We discussed this last summer but knew enough to wait and see if we were gonna last. Now I think we are ready. He is excited about it and said he would probably move his stuff by the end of this month and then we will start fixing my grandmas old house up and making it livable enough to move into. Once we are moved in, I will then sell my town house and buy my Grandmas place from my rents.

I hope it all works out. It is a bit nerve wracking for me since he has been so on and off with me over the last two years. But we have successfully been piecing for 9 months now and I am prepared to take the move and give it a try.

I am so happy to be so blessed with this opportunity. Two yrs ago I would have never expected my h to come through his crisis and to want to ever work on our M again. We tried several times but he was still too deep in crisis. Now I can finally see him coming out. I dont know how to describe it yet since he is still in the midst of it. But...Yeah!!!!!!!!!!
Happy New Year to ALL,
TIPPER

WooHoo Tipper!!!!

Take it one day at a time. Things look like they are moving in the right direction.

Don't worry about the little set backs, because they will happen and the two of you will become stronger and closer because of all that has happened. Keep your expectations low and let your H build them back up for you!

Take care!

Y

Tipper, I just found your thread. I am so glad to finally read about someone who is finding success with DB. Good for you. I am coming up on the first anniversary of my H moving out. If you have any advice for me, I would greatly appreciate it. My thread is PM Thread #3 in Infidelity. But my H is showing signs of MLC, big time.

I really need some veterans to help. H is deep into A. No intention to work on M, probably moved in with OW. Big signs of MLC, used to drink heavily but cut down a lot lately, which is good. Suffering depression for at least 2.5 years. Seeing counsellor and getting help which is great. Doing improvements on himself to impress OW, couldn't care less about me. We have two kids. Sorry for taking over your thread but I think I need some MLC spouses to advice me. Thanks!

Thanks YR!!!

Positively mommy, My advise to you is to never give up and dont believe anything you hear or that the MLCer tells you. Only believe in what you feel. If you feel you love your MLCer H, then only you can tell yourself to keep DBing. Sometimes, people just get to a point where they feel it in their gut and they just know it is over, but if your not their then dont give up. PRAY...And be thankful for what you do have. And one thing that really seemed to pay off for me was the fact that I never treated him bad or got mad or vengfull or viscious. I always treated him like my best freind when he wasnt being worthy of a freindship. I treated him with respect even thought I really wanted to scream and hollor at him to wake up. So live by the golden rule, it works.

I will pop back by in a few days,
TIPPER

Thank you, thankyou, thankyou. I needed to hear someone say 'Never give up.' I had been lost for the last month or so and worse in the last week. Just don't see any improvements. We are civil to each other, as you mentioned, I have not been vengeful or vicious. I did get mad and lost my temper in the beginning but have calmed right down after DB'ing since August. So our relationship is stable but not improving. He is distant so I don't pursue, I just act nice, cook dinner, make small talk. No pressure. I hope that is right. My gut and my head are fighting over who controls me. My head says that he won't come back or admit that he made a rash decision because of his pride but my gut says that I love him too much and our kids too much to give him up to another woman. Don't know what to do because he acts like another person and is so secretive. I wonder if trust can ever return.

How to become even more patient? What do you tell yourself? How do you behave with this alien who was your beloved H and then betrayed you?

"Let go, and let God".

Detaching is a big part of it. It takes practice. Don't allow yourself to think about what H is doing, and when you start, make a conscious effort to stop. Eventually, it becomes habit.

I found that taking a leap of faith helped me. I knew that no matter what, the control of the situation was out of my hands, and I let God handle it. It took the pressure off of me to do the right thing, say the right thing. And by taking the pressure off of me, it allowed me to take the pressure off of my H. And he started to call more often.

Now, the key to this is that I don't expect anything. If he calls, great. If he doesn't, that is okay too. I have realized that what he is going through is not about me. It is about him, and he needs to deal with it. I don't have any power or control over his emotions, his feelings. I have accepted the fact that I still love him, will probably always love him, no matter what. And that is as far as it goes. When I can help, I do. When I can't, I just listen.

Having my faith has been incredible. It has allowed me to love my H unconditionally, even if right now he feels he cannot love me back.

PM and LL,

I defenitely agree. I got to a point after a yr. of seperation and a divorce luming in the atmosphere and very little contact with my H that I felt like the ONLY thing I had was GOD.

I prayed and prayed and prayed and somehow GOD heard me and answered my prayers. I was withered away to nothing anymore and I didnt even feel alive. Didnt care about living. I would pray so much and cry so much. I never really could let go even though I outwardly tried. My insides screamed in torture and heart break. I am so glad it seems to be over now. But really, never give up on hope. Keep living and praying and maybe your prayers will be answered too.

I feel ashamed of myself right now. I need to be more greatfull for where I am and what I have. I cry so much still. It is wierd. I know I am so happy my H came back. But my emotions are still out of wack. My H even told me the other night that he thinks it is funny that every one called him bi-polar when I am the one that is so emotional. I am not PMSing, but for some reason I have been crying a lot lately. For no real good reasons either.

I do feel like my girl-friends have distanced themselves from me this past few months and I dont have the solid group of friends we used to have. So I get sad when I see or hear of them all hanging out with out me or us. It is so weird and hard to swallow. I dont feel like I really fit in with any of his new friends either. So that is getting me down and I cry.

ALso, I was then feeling a bit better the other day and I started crying out of the blue. I cant control my emotions and my H thinks I am going crazy. I dont know how to control it right now. I want to have him comfort me and nurture my emotions but he doesnt want to hear it. I start to get down on him when he doesnt want to hear my problems (with job, friends,ect...) and I tell him I just wish he would comfort me. He then gets mad and acts like I am always putting him down. I dont mean too. I just know that I am in emotional disarray because of him but he cant be the one to mend it.

I dont know. I think I have been sad lately. Maybe its the winter blues, maybe its my lack of old friends, maybe its my job changing with out my choice, maybe its my own jealousy about his band and all of his new friends. I just feel really stressed out.

Our R has been great. I have no reason to get like this , but I am and I need to stop. We have been working every night on remodeling our new house we are gonna buy this spring from my rents and it is coming along great. It is good for us both and our reconciliation. Now I need to focus on the positives so I dont end up messing this R up, I have to keep my emotions in check. I guess I still have some more healing to do.

TIPPER

Tipper,
I seem to remember MWD saying something about how while the WAS is away, you have to work so hard to keep your emotions under control with them or in public, so the expression of all that stuff gets delayed and only comes out after the WAS returns and you feel "safe" to express everything that got bottled up while they were gone. I don't really have any experience with this personally, but do you think that might be what is triggering your tearfulness?

Best wishes to you...

Peace,
Dawn

Hi Lola, you see I have been db'ing for eight months now and have not pursued H at all. And he seems to like this situation just fine. He is not calling me either. I need to let God take are of it, I know. I am just really afraid of the future. I am afraid for my kids and their future relationships with their dad and their spouses. I am afraid that I cannot trust anyone anymore.

Tipper, it's very normal for the LBS to go through these feelings when the WAS comes home. I read it in a book somewhere. So let your emotions be, acknowledge them before they get out of hand, then let go. It sounds like your H doesn't know how to cope with your, rightly justified, emotions. When men don't know how to cope, they may react in anger because they feel inadequate. Have you gotten help from a counsellor who can help you express your feelings in a positive, non-threatening way to your H. Has your H gotten counselling on how to help you through the low times and tips on how to validate your feelings, comfort you and so you can both move on? Just a thought, a good therapist can do wonders so you don't repeat behaviors that is detrimental to your newly patched-up R.

Dawn and PM,
Yea, there is no doubt I think that the reason I have been so emotional is becuase I had it all bottled up for so long. I have read about how it will come flooding back once the LBS feels safe again. I guess I need to just realize that this is what is probably happening with me and the way I feel. I unfortunately thought that I had allready gotten over most of it. But I guess not.

I am so sensetive of a person and I jump to conclusions sometimes. And I defenitely think the reason my H acts in anger when I am down is becuase it scares him and he doesnt know how to react. I really need to go back to using some of the DBing techniques such as putting up that 'STOP sign' when I feel like I am going to lose it or cry or get mad.

Thank you guys so much for your comfort. I needed to hear it.

We have never done M counseling because he is not at all comfortable with the idea. I went alone to a C when my H was gone. But it was too expensive and I had to stop since I didnt feel like I was getting anything out of it. And I tried out two different ones before I stopped going. Oh well, I wish I was more comfortable with the idea of trying it again. But I have a bad taste from that experience. And I really feel like it would be way more beneficial for us both to go - but I cant make him .

Last night, I did really well with not bringing up any of my emotions and I focused on just being happy and in a good mood. I think it helps make him feel more at ease also when I am happy.

It made me feel kind of good the other night when my H told me that he had bad dreams that I was seeing another guy. I of course am not, and I dont want him to have bad dreams, but it comforted me to know that he may be a bit insecure in the same way I am. He must fear in the back of his mind that I might someday find someone else as he did. Must be a guilty concsious. I still have dreams like that a lot - but it is only due to real fears that I once had to live due to him leaving. It was comforting and made me feel good to know it would scare him if I were to ever leave him. He is such an individual and seperate person that has no fear of being alone. I think I am the opposite.

Well thanks again guys. The house is going great. I will try to stay in touch.

Thanks for helping me feel more human again,
TIPPER

Well our progress on remodeling our new home is going terrific. It is so nice to be spending our time together creating something that will please us both in the long run. I am so excited that he is so willing to work on it and spend money on it and put his heart into it. It shows me that he is serious about making it work out between us.

He has been so happy and in such a great mood lately. I hope its not just a fluke. It seems genuine, and I often hear others even say to me how excited he is to move in there.

I think we will be done with the remodeling in about a month or so. Then I will sell my Townhouse. I hope all goes well.
TIPPER

Update:
things are going great. We are still working on finishing up our remodeling job on our new place. We are both so excited and we have put in so much work on the place.

Tonight is my H's 30th b-day. I have missed both of his last two birthdays due to his MLC and us being seperated during both of those aprils. This time I can celebrate it with him and it feels right. He kept saying he didnt deserve any gifts but I told him he does and I got him a bunch of nice things.

His family will meet us out for dinner tonight and I hope that my parents also come. But they have not gotten back to me yet.

I cant wait to get home. I have the next 10 days off of work (spring break - I teach). We hopefully will get moved into the new pad.

TTYL,
TIPPER

Well we have moved in and things at the new house are going absolutley great. I love our new living arrangment- mostly because we are TOGETHER. And because we worked our butts off remodeling my g-ma's old house.

We have accomplished so much. Our Relationship is so much stronger ( his words ) since all of this. And I agree. We have been through so much and I have learned to stop trying to control my H and he is showing me his love in so many nice ways.

I still get down on him a bit for going to the bars. He only goes once or twice a week to bars with out me. Mostly it is with his work crew for a few beers after they are done. I can live with it, even though I hate being alone on those unanounced nights. He still is an alcoholic, but I cant change that - Only he can. I can live with it and still love and support him while doing my own things to function and get by.
It does create problems still though. Time will tell.

Overall, I just want to say it is so worth it to piece your M's back together. If you get a chance dont hesitate. You can make it anything you want. I remember reading, that most of the LBS's are the ones that often cant get over the hurt and pain to try at a reconciliation. But its worth it, not easy at all, but worth it. I LOVE MY H. I always will, and now I get the chance to prove it everyday.

Hang in there all,
TIPPER

Hey all,
I am back from a long summer break and I will be checking in as often as I can.

Just want to say that my H and I are doing awesome and our Relationship is ACTUALLY better than it was before he left me.

TTYL,
TIPPER

Hey Divorce Busters,
Just popping in. I have not been on these boards in a while. But I must say they were my Saving grace for a very long time. I am so happy to feel like the MLC mess is almost completely gone. MY H and I are doing great still. We have been working hard on fixing up our new home (my grandmothers old house).

My Goals prayers & dreams from about 2-3 years ago (while my H was in MLC)are mostly all accomplished. I never would have gotten to this point with out the support and help from the divorce busting books and site. It was my savior. I am now, completely a different person and so is my H.

Stick to it. This stuff works.
TIPPER

Can I ask a question???? Are there any connections to a WAW, MLC and ILYBNILWY? If so how do I fight it? My W has mentioned this going on for 5 years with her and of course without my recognition. Hence, my current position.

Nowawake,
I am a bit confused by the wording of your question. But maybe this will help:

My H grew distant from me for about 1 and 1/2 yrs prior to his leaving me. When He left me he said "ILYBINILWY"straight to my face. I didnt believe him - it was definetely the MLC talking. He talked that way (spewing MLC crap) to me for about a year - It would hurt - but I always never deep down really believed his words. I knew that what we had was not just a waste. I knew that his MLC was brought about by his bankruptcy and had nothing to do with me. I had to just accept it.

My H and I have been back together for almost 2 years and living together again for a little over a year now. Every now and then I will still hear some of his MLC aftermath Spew. But it is mostly due to drinking or stress. Every now and again - i will still hear his cries for freedom and exicetment and rebellion - but I am no longer freaking out from it. I just accept that he is SOOOOO much of an Individual and hates anything being in control of him in anyway. Most of the time he doestn spew at all anymore. But I do here tid bits at times. I think my H and I have truely weathered this storm and have made it out on the other side stronger.

I personally still have a lot of insecurities and hurt and pain caused from this MLC> but I am still recovering in so many ways. I am not completely healed - and I dont know if I ever will be. I am so awake and aware now and I live inside my mind so much more than I ever thought possible. I have to try to work on venting to my H more now. I feel like over these past few years I have started to keep things inside more than ever due to a knowledge that I cant control him so why bother telling my opinion anymore.... I know its not good....I have to work on that.

But, the rest has been a complete blessing. Getting the love of my life back, rebuilding our relationship, buying a new house together and fixing it up, just to name a few.

At times I wanted to give up DBing - it was hard - and not always natural at all. I wasnt sure how much I was compromising or acting like a doormat - but every choice was different and as long as I didnt feel walked all over - I stuck with it. I think the focus though really has to be on making your self stronger, more attractive, more out going, spontaneaous and fun. If you do that - its hard for anyone not to stop and look at you.

Let me know if this helps, or maybe reword your Question so I understand more of what info I can help with.
TIPPER

It does help getting another perspective. I admit our marriage of 25 years have not had much physical passion. That was almost entirely my fault because of my depression and lack of interest. I lost my passion for life let alone physical passion. She told me on bomb day ILYBNILWY and I will not go through the rest of my life living this way. She mentioned turning 39 was hard for her and since then (5 yrs) it must have became unbearable living with my silence and lack of "in her mind" desire. As of now she is in a very angry state and wants me to be a WAH...I have told her I am not walking out and this has made her more angry, cold and bitter towards me. I am fully awake now and fully understand why and how we got to this point. She will not allow herself to believe we can move forward with something better and is unwilling to open up because she is afraid it would be more of the same and she will not live like that. I get it but she dosen't beleive I can change, have changed or will stay a changed man. In the past 7 months it has taken all of my strength to conclude I can control me but I can not control anyone else. I hope and pray for the courage, patience and strength to live with and accept what ever her decision is. I'm in the middle of my 180 and still dark on the R and our M. The silence is not comfortable.

Nowawake,
I just want to say, I hope you never give up if you know you really want your marriage to work.

I can see that she wanted it to work for a while but now your W feels its impossible for you to be together due to years of your seemingly unwillingness to please her (maybe).

So no matter what you say to her right now, she wont believe you. It will be very awkward for quite some time between you too. Conversations will be heavy at times. I hate to say - try to accept it.

I had realized after my H left me - that I was the one not being passionate and I was holding him back from doing things in his life that he really wanted to do - but I didtn't. That was when he decided we just were not meant for each other and he would tell me how painful it was for him to feel that way too. He would say how he didnt want this mess to happen - but it did.

His pain, I couldnt see - until he left me. Then I was fully aware. I was then the one that needed to do all the 180's and find a way to persistantly prove to him I have changed (even though we were not in much contact with each other during that time)> he was watching me more than I knew.

Eventually, my H woke up and realized he really did love me - we were just going through some pretty big life changes and had to have the time apart to really realize how much we truely loved each other. After a year he came home.

So hang in there, you never know if your W will be the next to wake up. I never gave up on that thought while my H was gone and I never believed for a minute that my H truely meant the ILYBINILWY speech -even though he was very convincing at the time. Deep in my gut - I just knew our M was not over.

Follow your gut. Come speak to us here. Grab advice as often as needed,
TIPPER

Now -

First, there is always HOPE! Period!

Quote:

I get it but she dosen't beleive I can change, have changed or will stay a changed man.

First the changes must be for YOU. Secound - she will need a time to see if they are real.

Quote:

In the past 7 months it has taken all of my strength to conclude I can control me but I can not control anyone else.

That is a good place to be - you can only control YOU.

Quote:

I hope and pray for the courage, patience and strength to live with and accept what ever her decision is.

Keep on those knees buddy.

Remember it is never over until the fat lady sings. Keep positive, keep believing.

A few questions...

1) Is OP involved?
2) What r u doing for YOU?

I am the wife with a WAH- he moved out 3/5/10- two weeks ago. he lives an hour away and on the weekends we get together 1x so far. It was good- but it was also my birthday. He stayed the night and left the next day. My issues are with Db'ing. Since Monday this week there has been no contact with him at all. I want to call, but i know it goes against the 180 rule. So- he is supposed to come over tomorrow and have date night and see how it goes from there. But since i havent heard from him all week- makes me wonder what he is doing, who he may be with etc. He has not had EA or PA that he will admit to- he claims absolutely not- but was wanting to and this is part of MLC so better for him to leave and see if we could de-stress and work on things living apart. It drives me absolutely NUTS not having contact with him. He said he got a phone line and internet to keep in touch with me during the weeks- but that hasnt happened much at all.....I'm confused. I REALLY REALLY WANT TO CALL-but as of today i havent.

Petals,

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1946855#Post1946855

This is your thread. I have posted something there.

i saw your threads- ive read the books- the thing i have issues with is wanting to contact wah.....how do people get over that or deal with it?

Trying to stay "in the dark" about the R is not easy. It seems we are not talking much about anything right now. Our 3 girls are doing ok with this arrangement but I am sure they are waiting for a shoe to drop. My W and I are not doing anything together right now...is that normal? I am spending most of my time supporting what our daughters are doing and also concentrating on my business. My W has no intentions on leaving the house and continues to fully expect me to leave and I am unwilling to do that. So far we are in a standoff. Thank you for all of your comments I am learning from each one of them.

Tipper, I think my H is going through a MCL. Do you think you could check out my thread? It would be greatly appreciated! And how did you get to the dating part?

Good morning Goodfight,

Like the name full of hope.

Tipper, I'm not sure Tip is on alot anymore.

However, if you feel your husband is in MLC then I suggest you move your thread over to this here board and fill us in on the background.

MLC is different and so is the advice than alot of the 'stand up to them' sort of advice from other areas of the board.

Nice to 'meet' you and have a good day.

Thanks JTB! I know this is going to sound stupid but how do I move my thread over to here?

Nice to 'meet' you too!

Thanks for answering me.

Welcome!

While in the mid life crisis forum itself, in your upper left corner of the screen you should see a little blue letter thing that says new topic. Click that. Then come up with a title and add your content just as you do when you reply to someone.

Actually, the new topic button is just above Tipper's thread here in the forum.

I need words of encouragement!!!having a bad couple of days:-(- trying to pull myself up, but gets hard sometimes. I am going to Husbands house tonight for our "once per week" get together. we have been doing this since he moved out 3 weeks ago. I want to start a workout routine- but also fnding it difficult to do that- seems that my body is tired and run down. any encouragement is greatly appreciated- or some success stories would be nice right now too lol.

Thanks trapt.

Petals,
You need to take care of yourself. Starting a moderate exercise program will make you feel better, sleep better and help your confidence level too. Do you have anyone to just walk with or can you go to a y or somewhere to walk on a treadmill 30 minutes every other day? If you start doing that and eat well you will be amazed how better you will feel. I know. I had not exercised in 20 years and was starting to feel it. What topics of conversation do you have with H during your once a week thing? I am still sleeping in the basement but W and I are not conversing much about anything. I refuse to bring up the R and she, I believe is waiting for me. This 180 and going dark is quite something. In a lot of ways I enjoy the silence. For anyone else out there lurking on this thread...should I continue doing my manly chores around the house? Dishes, sweeping, carrying out the trash, walking the dog, taking our girls to and fro from softball practice, etc. Any assistance would be quite helpful. I must say I feel better than I have in 20 years but I just wish W would notice and believe I am not faking it.

Hi Petals,

Getting into a good work out routine is a great way to (get a life) GAL. I can honestly tell you that it's the best thing you can do for both you and your R.

I know of three main reason why you need to work out.
First you need to take care of yourself and what better way then to start a work out routine. Second, your H will be watching you, he won't say anything but he's watching. Third, you need this just to stay sane.

Both my W and I participate in the same fitness class. We don't work out together but we have something in common. If you said this would of happened years ago I would have thought you were crazy.

Start slow and don't try to do it all in one day. Eat right and get plenty of sleep.

You can do this!!!!

Fixer

Hey All,
I am so so sorry I have been away for a while.

I unfortunately just got laid off from my teaching job I have been in for the last 8 years and My life feels like its been flipped upside down all over again.

I will do much better dealing with this crisis now though - that I have survived my H's MLC. Its made me stronger in many ways and one of them is to not freak out so bad about new changes and other crisis. I know I will be o.k. no matter what.

I will be gone for a while on the boards due to not having internet access all the time. And I am sorry to any of those I didnt respond to lately. I have my thoughts on all of you here, even though I am not posting.

The best DBing thing I look back on doing was definetly NOT CALLING MY H. So for anyone that is in the dark and not calling due to the DB advice : I am evidence it works. So stick it out. DONT CALL the WAS.

I strongly believe in my situation it was the thing that worked the best. I had to GAL after I realized I could not call him, and the rest the DB advise also followed. But It all starts there if you want to make them notice you again for the first time in a long time. Remember human nature usually get curious or wants to know about the things they dont have or cant get. So if you avoid calling in between visits, it is very much so making an impact on your WAS due to their curiousity. They will only hate it if you call and check on them anyways.

Just tell them the next time you visit. That you dont plan on calling them for a while so that they have enough time to be alone and get space. Say, you will only call when absolutely neccessary and if need be. Otherwise, they are free to do what they want because its their life to live.

For the time your in the dark due to the "not-calling/talking" it is THE WORST EVER< EVER< EVER>. I hated it. But I look back on it as one of the most important things i did and that even my H thanked me for when he finally returned. DONT CALL unless if emergency arrives.

Hang in there all, I will not know when I will be back but I just love this forum and I dont ever really want to leave it forever. And My laptop wont be taken back by my School dist. until the end of June so I have a bit more time. Then I will figure something else out.
TIPPER

Well I am back again. Unfortanitaly with bad news. After 3straight years of Piecing, My H left me again two days ago.We have had several discussions and arguements about the amount of time he is spending at the local taverns (He has gotten way worse lately and spends hours there EVERY night of the week and as much as possible on the weekends, and while intoxicated evey night he comes home to tell me how much he loves me and what matters the most to him is that I love him unconditionally).

I have exploded several times about the matter. I am alone a lot, and I cook and eat dinner alone a lot while hes out drinking.I have finally realized it is not fair for one spouse to do all the work and the other to go have freedom and fun.

Two nights ago, I exploded again, and he said fine then I am leaving. So I said let me help ya, and starting throwing his stuff down the stairs. I was so rageful at the time - I did not care that I was not being loving. I am HURTING BADLEY. I reacted poorly these past few times we have had the discussion about his drinking.

He text me last night (our 1st night apart and he spent the entire time at a bar): "this seperation is making me sick, I dont like it but I dont know what else to do". I knew he was drunk so I responded: "I am at a bbq and if you want to talk please call me in the morning".

So this morning he came by with his big dumpster truck and loaded stuff out of our garage that he needs for work. He was here over an hour and never came in to say hi or to talk or anything. When he had all the things he needed he just left. I have no idea where he is staying or what his long term plans are. But I need some good old advice from someone.

My next step is looking into alanon and attending a meeting.
Thanks for listening,
TIPPER

Tipper

Sorry, you're going through what you"ve been going through.
Your right, its not right or fair thet one in the marriage should
and wants to do the work required and the other gets to go out
and do anything with no reguards to the conquences.

The drinking is a problem. The DWI"no matter how many" in a problem.
From time to time i guess we all explode. That comes from you doing all you think you should or can and things are still off track between the two of you. It"s ok. Human nature.

I understand...my wife left me in 08/2008, had an affair which i hear has ended 06/2011, has been living here in the house with me from time to time due to her DWI, VOP, said alot of crewl things, and now just receintly i have talked to a divorce lawyer.

Currently i know things will not work when it is just one sided and only one sided. it's been that way for 3 years now.

I do know how you feel...

fallen knight

Tipper:

I just read your story. Do you have a recent update?

Shaky

Hey Tipper

I appreciate the list. Would you share what may have caused the return to crisis or leaving again? Each time if you are able. I want to learn as much as I can. Thank you so much!