This may be the women's version of the 'man up' advice.
Are you being told your spouse is 'cake-eating' and you shouldn't let him/her do it? You had better stop doing his laundry and making him dinner and having sex with him?
In general....that isn't good 'blanket' advice.
Ah, but sg, you silly girl. S/he shouldn't be a doormat....this person has NO RESPECT for her/him. And what she's doing CERTAINLY ISN'T WORKING!!!
Hmmm....
What does BETTER advice look like?
SG,
What are your thoughts on accomodating your spouse? Do you see it as a doormat or a welcome mat?
I have been reading up on MLC. The books I have read so far say that a MLC is not a time to push them into doing what you want them to do. It has to come in time for them to come out of their MLC fog which could take 2-5 years. The books say you have to practice patience. Do you agree with this?
MLC is such a difficult time. I would like to know your thoughts and anyone elses.
This is something that confuses the HECK out of me.
I've been warned against my H 'cake walking'....to stop allowing it!
Then...it's suggested I be as a friend.
I guess being 'just friends' isn't giving the MLC'er the 'cake and have it too'....
??
Doing things for your absent spouse should not make you feel used or resentful.
Doing things for your absent spouse in order to exact an action or reaction from them is manipulation.
Take the time to get in touch with why you are doing what you are doing. If you can live with it it truly doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
~ swl
Building a friendship is a GOOD thing.
If all you EVER got was nothing and you got to be a servant, of course that would be terrible. But if in the end, your efforts give you the marriage you've always dreamed of, it would be worth it, right?
You want to do WHAT WORKS, right. You want to build REAL LOVE ... and part of real love IS FRIENDSHIP. Love and care.
So....how do you BALANCE this .... leaving ROOM for re-attracting him, nourishing a friendship, and yet NOT feeling taken advantage of?
What would be YOUR ideas for this?
Doing things for your absent spouse should not make you feel used or resentful.
Doing things for your absent spouse in order to exact an action or reaction from them is manipulation.
Take the time to get in touch with why you are doing what you are doing. If you can live with it it truly doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
~ swl
From GETTING THROUGH TO THE MAN YOU LOVE, Page 40. This is only part of it, so you can get the whole response in the book, but:
Q: Isn't it manipulative to try to change him?
A: Sometimes women wonder if they are being manipulative when they begin using the methods described in this book because they learn to become strategic about how they approach their partners, instead of just allowing emotions to guide them and doing "what comes naturally." But when you're in a relaitonship, you want that relationship to be the best it can possibly be, and you want to do whatever it takes to get there. There's nothing wrong with that. An you're not an evil person because you want your partner to be more sensitive to your needs. No matter what he tells you, he wants the same consideration from you....."
..... "So, remember, whether you do it effectively or ineffectively, when you ask your partner to do things differently, you are trying to change him........Furthermore, if you spend a lot of time trying to change him with ineffective methods, you will start resenting him because he's not bending and he doesn't exactly appreciate you either. In fact, he gets downright mad. So, if you are going to reform your partner in any way, big or small, why not use a method that's sure to minimize resistance and feelings of indignation and hostility?"
Building a friendship is a GOOD thing.
If all you EVER got was nothing and you got to be a servant, of course that would be terrible. But if in the end, your efforts give you the marriage you've always dreamed of, it would be worth it, right?
You want to do WHAT WORKS, right. You want to build REAL LOVE ... and part of real love IS FRIENDSHIP. Love and care.
So....how do you BALANCE this .... leaving ROOM for re-attracting him, nourishing a friendship, and yet NOT feeling taken advantage of?
What would be YOUR ideas for this?
I have to admit...it feels so much easier to be a friend...simply a friend. I have been feeling more content, and better about myself too.
Anything else has come to feel so strategic...and that takes much more emotional energy.
But, I'm new to this.
I don't know how to talk about the balance. I'm not experienced enough and have not made it through enough challenges yet.
I never thought my H was Cake-eatting until someone said he was.
Building a friendship is a GOOD thing.
If all you EVER got was nothing and you got to be a servant, of course that would be terrible. But if in the end, your efforts give you the marriage you've always dreamed of, it would be worth it, right?
You want to do WHAT WORKS, right. You want to build REAL LOVE ... and part of real love IS FRIENDSHIP. Love and care.
So....how do you BALANCE this .... leaving ROOM for re-attracting him, nourishing a friendship, and yet NOT feeling taken advantage of?
What would be YOUR ideas for this?
I'm not sure exactly where my R is headed with my H. We have been separated since Oct. 2006. We have attetmpted reconcilitation a few times and he gets cold feet. He filed for D June 2007 and dismissed it July 2008.
He will tell me that he isn't seeing OW, but then I find out that he is. I don't think he is seeing her right now outside of work, but I can't be sure.
OW happens to be his secretary (yes, I hate that fact). He has told me before that he wants her to quit on her own. Guilt talking, maybe? She got a divorce.
H does lots of things for me. He helps me with household maintenance and yardwork. We go out on dates. We went out of town for our 22nd anniversary lately. This past weekend we were together all three days.
He gets really warm and then gets cool again. Right now I would say he is back to being lukewarm.
In some aspects I feel like I'm crazy for putting up with his moods, in others I'm glad that he is coming around. Cake eating? I'm not sure... I just know that I want to my marriage to be restored. Am I going about it the right way? Again I don't know, but I do know that we are still in communication and see each other often.
I also believe I am a much stronger person than I was at the beginning of the separation.
I never thought my H was Cake-eatting until someone said he was.
Girlfriend....this is EXACTLY my point!!!
Building a friendship is a GOOD thing.
If all you EVER got was nothing and you got to be a servant, of course that would be terrible. But if in the end, your efforts give you the marriage you've always dreamed of, it would be worth it, right?
You want to do WHAT WORKS, right. You want to build REAL LOVE ... and part of real love IS FRIENDSHIP. Love and care.
So....how do you BALANCE this .... leaving ROOM for re-attracting him, nourishing a friendship, and yet NOT feeling taken advantage of?
What would be YOUR ideas for this?
I'm not sure exactly where my R is headed with my H. We have been separated since Oct. 2006. We have attetmpted reconcilitation a few times and he gets cold feet. He filed for D June 2007 and dismissed it July 2008.
He will tell me that he isn't seeing OW, but then I find out that he is. I don't think he is seeing her right now outside of work, but I can't be sure.
OW happens to be his secretary (yes, I hate that fact). He has told me before that he wants her to quit on her own. Guilt talking, maybe? She got a divorce.
H does lots of things for me. He helps me with household maintenance and yardwork. We go out on dates. We went out of town for our 22nd anniversary lately. This past weekend we were together all three days.
He gets really warm and then gets cool again. Right now I would say he is back to being lukewarm.
In some aspects I feel like I'm crazy for putting up with his moods, in others I'm glad that he is coming around. Cake eating? I'm not sure... I just know that I want to my marriage to be restored. Am I going about it the right way? Again I don't know, but I do know that we are still in communication and see each other often.
I also believe I am a much stronger person than I was at the beginning of the separation.
I believe that it will help for you to find out what is so darn attractive about that other person.
And to find out what holds him back from making the commitment to you.
If YOU were him, what would hold YOU back from committing? What would you want to make sure changed about you or the situation?
Is there a big purple elephant in the room?
Is it a fun factor? Or a conflict factor? An appearance thing? A sex thing?
..... "So, remember, whether you do it effectively or ineffectively, when you ask your partner to do things differently, you are trying to change him........Furthermore, if you spend a lot of time trying to change him with ineffective methods, you will start resenting him because he's not bending and he doesn't exactly appreciate you either. In fact, he gets downright mad. So, if you are going to reform your partner in any way, big or small, why not use a method that's sure to minimize resistance and feelings of indignation and hostility?"
have to disagree with the overall view of this paragraph in that you can change someone else. By any method. Whether it be through DB or some method you choose yourself.
Many times we fall into a trap thinking we can change our partners by acting a certain way and I think that is very destructive to us. The only person that you can change is YOURSELF. You cannot change your spouse. Your spouse is the only person that can change themselves.
That being said we can act in certain ways that make them want to behave differently than they did before. It's harder to spew at someone that's being nice to you (some it do though, granted), but as for changing your spouse, like the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"
If you do all that you can and your spouse is still not coming around, don't blame yourself. You can't change him. He has to be willing to do the work on himself or reconciliation will never happen or work if attempted. It's definitely a two way street.
BFM
I remember how I felt...why Cake-Walking was brought to my attention.
H would come around on weekends...enjoy family time, play, eat and be merry....
Then...he'd leave.
I felt used.
He'd come here, seeminly get a 'family fix'...then leave me with 3 kids all week.
I got very resentful of H interacting as if he were an uncle, brohter or some friend of the family.
He was, and has not, been involved in parenting, school, discipline,....raising the kids.
I understood that to be Cake-Walking after months went by.
Does that make sense?
Sophie.... A Cake-Walk is a game in which you can win a cake
But I know what you mean.
Definitely if something you're trying isn't working...you may need to stop immediately. OR you may need to give it some time. And...there maybe be things you can do to tweak the situation.
Also---if you do find you need to set a limit, the consequence doesn't have to be HUGE. Just effective and relative to him. IF he leaves his clothes on the floor for you wash....just leave them there.
..... "So, remember, whether you do it effectively or ineffectively, when you ask your partner to do things differently, you are trying to change him........Furthermore, if you spend a lot of time trying to change him with ineffective methods, you will start resenting him because he's not bending and he doesn't exactly appreciate you either. In fact, he gets downright mad. So, if you are going to reform your partner in any way, big or small, why not use a method that's sure to minimize resistance and feelings of indignation and hostility?"
have to disagree with the overall view of this paragraph in that you can change someone else. By any method. Whether it be through DB or some method you choose yourself.
Many times we fall into a trap thinking we can change our partners by acting a certain way and I think that is very destructive to us.
The only person that you can change is YOURSELF. You cannot change your spouse. Your spouse is the only person that can change themselves.
That being said we can act in certain ways that make them want to behave differently than they did before. It's harder to spew at someone that's being nice to you (some it do though, granted), but as for changing your spouse, like the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"
If you do all that you can and your spouse is still not coming around, don't blame yourself. You can't change him. He has to be willing to do the work on himself or reconciliation will never happen or work if attempted. It's definitely a two way street.
BFM
You DO change people every day. The way you interact with them triggers how they will interact with you. Your habits become your character over time.
There are things about a person you cannot change, but there IS a lot you can do.
You might not be the problem....but you may definitely be the solution.
I still stand by what I say. Yes, you can trigger people to act differently, but you can't MAKE them act differently if they don't really want to.
I liken it to a toddler learning to potty train. The toddler has to WANT to use the potty and not their diapers or the "training" is never going to work. You can show them the potty, give them treats for using the potty and make it an attractive option for them, but if that child wants to use diapers then they are going to use diapers and you can't control that. They are in control of themselves and their own actions. not you, not anybody else.
The only person that you can control (or change) is yourself. You can make yourself an attractive option and your marriage a safe haven, but I think it damages self esteem if we think we can change our spouse by using these methods and then they still don't change. It makes us feel like failures. Like we didn't do ENOUGH. We may have done all we could, but unless the other person wants the same thing that we do then we will never be successful.
I'm one of the "success" stories on this board, but I still subscribed to the belief that I couldn't change my H, I could only change myself and that regardless of the outcome I would be OK. I think the focus should be more on how we can change ourselves to be better people (in my case, more Christ-like) rather than on how we can change our spouses. It's just a healthier approach to the situation.
BFM
You DO change people every day. The way you interact with them triggers how they will interact with you. Your habits become your character over time.
There are things about a person you cannot change, but there IS a lot you can do.
You might not be the problem....but you may definitely be the solution.
When I stopped reacting....so did he.
When I stopped talking and started listening he started talking.
When I stopped pursuing and distanced myself, he begen to pursue.
When I began to change the steps of the dance, he began to take the lead.
When I stopped reacting....so did he.
When I stopped talking and started listening he started talking.
When I stopped pursuing and distanced myself, he begen to pursue.
When I began to change the steps of the dance, he began to take the lead. [/quote]
When you first stopped...or began to let go of the rope, as they say...did he react negatively?
My H seems to withdraw when I stop pushing/pulling/expecting.
He seems to be just as angry...no reponse to anything...just disappears.
For me..
This time...I don't feel as impatient or that I am working on myself to change him. That feels really...free:)
Back to the original intent of this thread – cake eating.
My H was probably one of the worst offenders by most people’s standards and I was the biggest doormat in the history of doormats. I never saw it that way. I actually lost good friends because they didn’t want me to be nice to my H. Actually had a huge argument with someone I thought was a good friend about how he didn’t think what H was doing was good for the kids and that he wanted me to be mean to him. Unbelievable. I asked him if he thought being mean was going to be beneficial to my kids. His answer – you can fake niceness when they are around, but you don’t have to be nice to him around other people.
So then I asked, don’t you think D10 is smart enough to tell the difference between genuine niceness and fake niceness? What would I gain by being mean to him? I agreed that what he was doing was not beneficial to the kids and that was why I had to do all I could do make up for it and I felt that treating him with kindness and respect as the father of our children was a big way of accomplishing this.
He still didn’t get it and that was the last time I talked to him until after H came home. He and his wife are slowly coming around to the idea that maybe I wasn’t so crazy after all.
H and I had sex pretty much the entire time that he was living with someone else. He maintains that it was the one bond that kept us from totally falling apart. That me allowing him into my life and the kids lives unfettered and without difficulty made it difficult for him to let me go completely. That me praying for him and OW (and telling him that I was doing so) was incredible to him and that the grace I showed to him while he was being an a$$ was unbelievable.
I prayed everyday that God show me the way. I prayed that God help me to love my H like He loves us, unconditionally. If we can love our spouses unconditionally after all the horrible things they have done to us then how much easier will that be to translate that love into others in our lives that aren’t so hard to love?
Did I do these things to manipulate H into coming home? No. Sure, I had hopes that he would and God kept telling me that divorce was not in my future, but I did them because it was the right thing to do. I did them knowing that even if he didn’t come back that I would be OK and a lot stronger and better person for having treated him in a loving way while he was being most unlovable. My H didn’t deserve unconditional love. He didn’t deserve me being nice to him. He knows (knew) that, and I knew it too, however, none of us deserve to go to heaven either, but Christ loved us enough to pay that debt for us and loved us unconditionally. He expects us to do the same.
I think cake eating is all about an attitude. If you feel used, if you feel abused then it’s cake eating. If you approach your situation as a person that wants to be more Christ-like and treat others as God would have treated them then it’s not cake eating, it’s unconditional love. I guess you have to decide where you stand on that continuum.
BFM
sorry...didn't mean to divert
I think I was the first one to divert so it was only fair that I try to get it back on track
SG,
I think it makes a huge difference if there is adultery involved (in fact, it would be very interesting for you to post this same thread topic on the Infidelity forum!), or if the spouse is walking away for MLC or some other reason.
To me, "cake-eating" is when a wayward spouse gets some of their physical and emotional needs met by their OW/OM, while some of their other emotional, sometimes physical, and usually financial needs are being met by their betrayed spouse, without condition or consequence. When this condition is reached, there is really no incentive for the adulterous spouse to stop their infidelity, because they are "having their cake, and eating it, too."
Yes, God loves us unconditionally. But even Jesus told the harlot "go and sin no more" when he forgave her. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries for our OWN emotional health, and letting our wayward spouses know what they are, and what the consequences are for breaking them.
In my opinion.
Puppy
I don't like the term Cake-Eating.
It is subjective. What is cake-eating to one person is not to another.
Do we deserve respect? Hell yeah. Can I get an amen?
However, as an LBS with an MLC spouse, we accept that one person will not respect us. We should expect their worst behaviour, if they cannot respect themselves, they certainly cannot afford to respect us.
While I do not like the term, Puppy definition is the one I would use, if backed into a corner and had a gun pressed up against my head.
"Caking-Eating" usage seems to set up the following..."You deserve better, why are you with him?"
Do what works for you, even if it seems like allowing cake eating.
And by the way...
"Have your cake and eat it too." WTF? Really, of course I'm going to eat my cake, I HAVE...IT...RIGHT...HERE on my plate in my hand.
Never made any sense to me. What I supposed to just look at it? Nice cake, I bet it tastes great, but alas, alack! I am supposed to only gander at the wonderous thing.
LMAO . . .
I don't like the term Cake-Eating.
It is subjective. What is cake-eating to one person is not to another.
Do we deserve respect? Hell yeah. Can I get an amen?
However, as an LBS with an MLC spouse, we accept that one person will not respect us. We should expect their worst behaviour, if they cannot respect themselves, they certainly cannot afford to respect us.
While I do not like the term, Puppy definition is the one I would use, if backed into a corner and had a gun pressed up against my head.
"Caking-Eating" usage seems to set up the following..."You deserve better, why are you with him?"
Do what works for you, even if it seems like allowing cake eating.
And by the way...
"Have your cake and eat it too." WTF? Really, of course I'm going to eat my cake, I HAVE...IT...RIGHT...HERE on my plate in my hand.
Never made any sense to me. What I supposed to just look at it? Nice cake, I bet it tastes great, but alas, alack! I am supposed to only gander at the wonderous thing.
yes yeS yES YES!!!!!!!!!
i agree completely
Another man's....woman's...common sense is another man's downfall.--Virginia Peeples
The point isn't about saving your dignity...although that's very nice....the point isn't about not being taken for granted....that would be good too.....the point is.........to do what will bring you and your partner more love, a better relationship, in the long run.
If adultery is involved, there's a GOOD CHANCE that you aren't in a position to set limits. If you aren't the one holding the trump card in the moment, setting very firm limits, might make you feel justified, but may 'seal the deal' for your partner divorcing you.......
or...staying, but closing their heart off to you. The former seems more common for wives setting boundaries the latter more common for husbands setting boundaries, especially if the H's trump card is only financial.
Leave yourself room to grow love and affection.
You sound like my wife...
last night.
For what its worth here is my story.
I just wanted to say my H and I are finally back together, and he says that he is more in love with me now than he ever has been. Why? He says because I showed him love when he didn't deserve it, I showed him unconditional love, something he could not understand, it blew him away.
Yes he did take advantage of my feelings in the first couple of months after finding out about his affair.
Yes people on this board and even his best friend told me not to let him do this to me. To me I had to do what was best for our family and if it meant I would show him only love then so be it. I did not try to change him.
We only seen each other during the weekends because of his job that is why the affair, she was convienent is how he put it, she made herself available, first it was physical then it became an emotional affair then he just wanted out of our marriage.
Those 2 months was pure agony for me, but during those months he came to realize what he was doing to his family and himself, he came to realize he had to come back home to find work here. After his move back home it still took 3 months to repair his damaged way of thinking. He had this lifestyle for the last 7 years, the affair lasted 5 months and he did fall in and out of love with her.
But here we are now and he is so attentive and loving, though their has been some rough patches, first of all, after finally feeling safe enough I had my emotional breakdown and basically let him have it, I told him I resented all the things he had did to me, and all the horrible words that he had said to me, and so now I am in the process of trying to forgive and letting go, it has been tough but my anger has finally subsided.
When I think of what I had to put up with, (the cake eating) Yes it was very difficult but it was worth it to keep my family from falling apart and he said he is so grateful that I fought for us and did not give up on him or us, but he did say if I had thrown him out on his a$$ he would have tried everything to get me back, but to tell you the truth I seen it in his eyes that he was so far gone from me that the only thing I had left was to do what I did, I couldn't take a chance.
Only you know your spouse better than anyone you have to decide for yourself what is best for you and your family.
Here's hoping the best for all of you!
You DO change people every day. The way you interact with them triggers how they will interact with you. Your habits become your character over time.
There are things about a person you cannot change, but there IS a lot you can do.
You might not be the problem....but you may definitely be the solution.
When I stopped reacting....so did he.
When I stopped talking and started listening he started talking.
When I stopped pursuing and distanced myself, he begen to pursue.
When I began to change the steps of the dance, he began to take the lead.
AWESOME....THANKS FOR THIS!!!
For what its worth here is my story.
I just wanted to say my H and I are finally back together, and he says that he is more in love with me now than he ever has been. Why? He says because I showed him love when he didn't deserve it, I showed him unconditional love, something he could not understand, it blew him away.
Yes he did take advantage of my feelings in the first couple of months after finding out about his affair.
Yes people on this board and even his best friend told me not to let him do this to me. To me I had to do what was best for our family and if it meant I would show him only love then so be it. I did not try to change him.
We only seen each other during the weekends because of his job that is why the affair, she was convienent is how he put it, she made herself available, first it was physical then it became an emotional affair then he just wanted out of our marriage.
Those 2 months was pure agony for me, but during those months he came to realize what he was doing to his family and himself, he came to realize he had to come back home to find work here. After his move back home it still took 3 months to repair his damaged way of thinking. He had this lifestyle for the last 7 years, the affair lasted 5 months and he did fall in and out of love with her.
But here we are now and he is so attentive and loving, though their has been some rough patches, first of all, after finally feeling safe enough I had my emotional breakdown and basically let him have it, I told him I resented all the things he had did to me, and all the horrible words that he had said to me, and so now I am in the process of trying to forgive and letting go, it has been tough but my anger has finally subsided.
When I think of what I had to put up with, (the cake eating) Yes it was very difficult but it was worth it to keep my family from falling apart and he said he is so grateful that I fought for us and did not give up on him or us, but he did say if I had thrown him out on his a$$ he would have tried everything to get me back, but to tell you the truth I seen it in his eyes that he was so far gone from me that the only thing I had left was to do what I did, I couldn't take a chance.
Only you know your spouse better than anyone you have to decide for yourself what is best for you and your family.
Here's hoping the best for all of you!
BEAUTIFUL!!!!
May all the love between you just melt all those old hurts away.
I just had a bit of an "A-ha!" moment, and wanted to share this thought.
I'm thinking that it may make a difference if the betrayed spouse is offering up unconditional love (no boundaries, no ultimatums, etc.) as an intentional STRATEGY, as opposed to some that CLAIM it's a strategy, but their past marital and interpersonal history shows that it's probably just more out of fear and passivity than anything intentional.
IOW, the betrayed spouse can withstand the humiliation/emasculation that comes with "cake-eating" if they KNOW that they are doing it selflessly, intentionally, and as a strategy, as opposed to those I've counseled (and we've all seen) that are just plain "afraid to make her/him mad," and are not really feeling good at all about what's being done to them.
????? Just a thought.
Puppy
Dear Puppy,
I just skimmed your last post because I'm in a rush, but I will come revisit this later. THANK you for your words of wisdom here. I need to evaluate what I'm doing to make sure what I'm doing is right (the boundary thing is a bit scary for me).
cheers,
poet
'Twas for me too.
I like cake and I like eating it (that is why I have joined a gym
) however seeing my h 'having his cake and eating it' ate me up for a long time. Then I realised that it was my perception not actual reality, it was one more thing to blame him for and to martyr myself with. Once I let go of that I felt
so much better and actually he isn't having his cake and eating it at all and I don't think he views his situation as that either.
I know he felt a lot of pressure when I loaded him with my perception/ opinion of things though (his cake-eating/ living the life of Riley) and it was one more reason to not come home or be responsive in anyway to me. It was a very negative way of thinking for me and a big turning point for me personally when I let it go.
When asked about my sitch by family and friends I know that they perceive that I am a door mat and that he is having his cake and eating it however when I go on to briefly explain some of the results I am getting and show how positive I am at the moment they change their mind, or keep their opinions to themselves at least. I also don't then feel disloyal to my h by saying negative things about him which helps me and helps me be more respectful to him. It doesn't mean I don't talk about my h and my feelings to trusted friends and family but when I was talking about his cake-eating I felt I was 'slagging him off' - to use an expression.
We need to remember that the cake they are eating is moldy, it might look tasty but it has gone sour.
The other day when (yet again) my STBX was attempting once more to have sex w/ me (we r going to pre trial this Monday)I told him I was not goign to let him cake eat and he kept saying " I'm not ...I'm not", then what r u doing? he said....as he thought his words carefully..."Its not cake , its pie"
Anyhoo , the more I have let him go and moved on, the more he seems to want it
The other day when (yet again) my STBX was attempting once more to have sex w/ me (we r going to pre trial this Monday)I told him I was not goign to let him cake eat and he kept saying " I'm not ...I'm not", then what r u doing? he said....as he thought his words carefully..."Its not cake , its pie"
Anyhoo , the more I have let him go and moved on, the more he seems to want it
This cake eating is an interesting discussion for me!My family all say nothing will change in my sitch as H is separated 1 yr but remains in affectionate contact-we were on brink of divorce at Christmas after 28 yrs married but he asked for more time.He is cake eating for sure and scared of financial settlements etc but is also in a real confused state. Im hanging on to the friendship we have now and have avoided divorce- which he still says he doesnt want- by an agreed financial arrangement .Yes, I would get more money by filing and may end up doing that but all I can say is you have to go on your gut feelings. I love the "pie" comment-we only hug and kiss still havent been intimate for years-more work needed there!
"To me, 'cake-eating' is when a wayward spouse gets some of their physical and emotional needs met by their OW/OM, while some of their other emotional, sometimes physical, and usually financial needs are being met by their betrayed spouse, without condition or consequence. When this condition is reached, there is really no incentive for the adulterous spouse to stop their infidelity, because they are 'having their cake, and eating it, too.'
Yes, God loves us unconditionally. But even Jesus told the harlot 'go and sin no more' when he forgave her. There is nothing wrong with setting boundaries for our OWN emotional health, and letting our wayward spouses know what they are, and what the consequences are for breaking them.
In my opinion."
Hello,
Your above comment is what fits me to a T. Puppy, if you're out there, and you see this post, please know that I have just set a boundary for my H when he is at home. He does not live here but seems to occasionally come and stay overnight on the couch. He's done it three times since he moved out in the middle of May.
Two of those times were because he was sick. The other time was because it was July 4th weekend, I guess. Anyway, he had his cake (OW) and ate it too stayed married to me for about three years, I think. I'm not sure what he was eating out of my hand because it certainly wasn't financial or sexual. Maybe it was emotional; who knows.
Now, we have phone contact about once or twice a day because that's what he wants. In fact, I was reading a thread on this board today around 4:20 p.m., just about the time he's on his way home from work.
He called to ask me if I was off work yet. I had been crying from the thread, and my coach told me not to answer if I'm in a bad way. But because of recent incidences with my H and the phone issue, I felt it best -- might have been a mistake. Anyway, he only wanted know if I was still away from the house because he was planning to come home if I was not here. I guess I diverted his plans.
The convo took him only 30 seconds:
H: Hey, are you still at work.
M: (shaky voice) No.
H: Are you OK?
M: (wimper) A closed mouth cry came from my throat.
H: Alright, I let you go.
M: OK.
Then about an hour later I called him back
M: Hello
H: What is it now?
M: I was just calling to see what you wanted.
H: You don't call me, so I was calling you to see what to do about feeding the dog.
M: I thought we discussed this yesterday. I'll take care of the dog. And I thought you told me yestderday that you were "running out of money because of the gas you were using" (it's about 25 miles out of his way - not alot compared to my 120 miles one way).
H: Alright, but I can't always tell. I'll just expect you to feed him.
M: OK, well, I'm just following your lead.
H: OK then, goodbye.
M: Bye.
Anyway, I fear to say this but I'm sure he is not running out of money because he's coming home once in a while to feed the dog. He may be coming to see what I'm up too. OH well, I guess he can still have his cake and eat it too. Maybe this last comment is not loving, but I'm only saying it here and that's really how I feel, at the moment.
poet.
"Doing things for your absent spouse in order to exact an action or reaction from them is manipulation. "
No. We do things not to "exact an action or reaction" we do this out of kindness and the unconditional love we have for our spouses.
Some people might do it for the reason stated previously but not all do that.
God teaches us to be kind and to love unconditionally, He does not teach us to turn the other way.
The statement was written in general and did not single any one person out but rather was put out there as a scale of measurement. If you are not doing this then it should not concern you. You don't have to agree with the statement any more than anyone else does. That is the beauty of the board. You are free to take what you can use personally and leave the rest behind for someone else to consider.
The other day when (yet again) my STBX was attempting once more to have sex w/ me (we r going to pre trial this Monday)I told him I was not goign to let him cake eat and he kept saying " I'm not ...I'm not", then what r u doing? he said....as
he thought his words carefully..."Its not cake , its pie"
lol
I just had a bit of an "A-ha!" moment, and wanted to share this thought.
I'm thinking that it may make a difference if the betrayed spouse is offering up unconditional love (no boundaries, no ultimatums, etc.) as an intentional STRATEGY, as opposed to some that CLAIM it's a strategy, but their past marital and interpersonal history shows that it's probably just more out of fear and passivity than anything intentional.
IOW, the betrayed spouse can withstand the humiliation/emasculation that comes with "cake-eating" if they KNOW that they are doing it selflessly, intentionally, and as a strategy, as opposed to those I've counseled (and we've all seen) that are just plain "afraid to make her/him mad," and are not really feeling good at all about what's being done to them.
????? Just a thought.
Puppy
I think there's some truth in that. In 'GETTING THROUGH TO THE MAN YOU LOVE", Michele says something about sometimes if your techniques' or strategies aren't working .... it could be that you haven't put your heart in it.......and that leads me to this 'other sense' that maybe we haven't figured out a way to hide.
You 'KNOW'--often anyway, if your spouse is sincere or has an ulterior motive.* They know this about YOU, too.
So it follows....they probably KNOW if you're being fearful/passive, or doing some real giving.
(everyone...don't take that and run with it ... if you're on the OTHER END....ACT AS IF their motives are GREAT)