Oh hey, my thread locked in front of my eyes there!!!! Thanks Mishka! I will drive more careful in future and its STILL raining. Heres my last thread...
no expectations. Heres some of my last post...
So I didnt expect much of last night and sure enough, I wasnt disappointed. It was lovely to see him, I still fancy him! I found myself staring at his lips as he was talking, thinking about kissing him! He wasnt doing this to me, as far as I could tell. He didnt 'check me out' as Lisa would say, or make much eye contact so I got nothing back from him at all really - but then he seemed very down, agitated, tired. He talked about work and his Mum mainly and seemed kind of nervous and forgetful. So, bit worrying, as he does seem worse.
I asked him directly about the doctors (said he will go next week, with a look that said, I really need to), about his depression (said this work decision has made it worse and he really isnt sleeping now) and is going to be honest with his boss on Friday that he still has depression and her decision has exacebated it. I made a point to bolster him, I told him he looked handsome, his new haircut was great, that it was lovely to spend time with him, that I was amazed at all the things he had done to find another job and that he should be proud of that. Of course his depression batted it away, but not that he minded me saying it.
We had a big hug in the car, I enjoyed circling his waist and burying my face in his neck. Felt wonderful and we fell in together so instantly. Reminded me of a biology lesson (my favourite subject!) - about how antibodies lock onto antigens, one shape made to match each one, they lock around it in a perfect fit. But, I think it meant more to me than him and I am still worried about him going to a 30th party tommorow night (on the eclipse!!) as in his state he may hook up with someone to make himself feel better.
He said in a reassuring voice that he will let me know the outcome of the meeting Friday "of course" but then corrected himself and said in a sweet way, oh but I'll phone you tommorow anyway...and then he left and I cried all the way home, which was bad news as I couldnt see and it was raining really hard and I nearly crashed three times on the pitch black country lanes!
Well he didnt reply to my email today and hasnt called me either (he was going to a friends). But... I had a 2 1/2 interview earlier at a Web/Design company! Exhausting, but he basically offered me a job to start Monday, which I had to turn down as I had to be honest and say...I have forgotton how to program!! So I cant hit the ground running and it wouldnt be fair to accept, as its a startup and theres only 6 of them. So, hes setting me a real job to do from home but giving me 2 weeks to get up to speed and do it, and if I do ok, will give me a job in a months time!!! YAYYY !!!!
Ooooh, antibodies and antigens. I thought something on your thread was calling my soul, Al! (((((hugs)))))
Sounds like you did a great job validating yesterday. It sounds like BF is under a lot of extra stress and pressure and you're being a lighthouse for him. It seems like exactly what he needs, but I can see how draining it must be. I'm not surprised you ended up crying on the way home. I've been there myself.
Great news on the web/design company offer. You must have a great CV and do and fantastic interview!
I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that BF's meeting turns out OK tomorrow, or better than OK. Fingers and toes, both.
L. xx
Hey thanks Lisa! I've got some solid experience behind me and the quals, butI cant believe how much I push myself forwards work wise, so funny to talk him out of giving me a job! But if I start work for him in September, it will have been a 2 year gap. Finally though, a proper programming job and as its so varied it will be pretty challenging. They're small, but they have some big national clients, so I am dead chuffed.
Feeling despondent about him. Its his meeting tommorow - on the eclipse and I thikn its going to take him away from here. I asked him last night, so you dont want to move back then and he looked upset and said, no, not really, not if I dont have to, but what choice do I have, I dont want to lose my job either...
I'm sensing that things are changing and coming to a head, but not in a way I would have hoped. He was even less receptive to me last night, if that were possible, like he was the weekend before. Gone are those evenings out when he was "with" me, putting his baccy in my bag, telling me whenever he nipped to the loo, standing by my side, starting R talks of sorts, saying not to blame myself...even that tenuous stuff has stopped now. Its like we are just mates...but it is wierd that he contacts me alot. But, hes inconsistent - he didnt contact me today and yet two days ago he emailed me 5 times and called me twice.
Of the few people who know about this, I think they're surprised that I STILL havent moved on but I dont feel inclined to, I still miss him. I am getting on with my life, I dont cry at home anymore, I fall straight to sleep, I cook myself nice dinners, I see my friends, I am career hunting like mad, buying new clothes (not inspired by him, just for myself)..but then I feel myself slipping away almost, like I sense he is.
Having said that, I wish he would just turn up now and move back in, like it was just a bad dream...
Congrats on the job offer! You must of knocked em dead in the interview. When the right job comes along you will know it and snatch it up!
Good job with BF...you have come so far in becoming friends with him again. Who knows what lies behind the next turn of events eh? Keep up the good work.
You are in my thoughts and prayers!
BA
Hang in there, Ali. He still has a long way to go. Don't read too much into everything or you'll find yourself going nuts!
RTL
hey everyone - so today is the eclipse and he met with his boss and he hasnt really been much in contact with me for 2 days, but he emailed earlier to say (not much)...
hiya,
Yeah really tired. Just got out of the meeting. It was OK but really hasn't changed anything. She was more sympathetic though. How was your interview?
...and that was it. I emailed straight back to ask if hes ok and does he still have to move away in 4-6 weeks and he didnt reply. He's probably left for the drive to another town where he's on a 30th birthday night out.
Feeling sad and resigned. The eclipse fell in my 7th house and this is what it means for me from an astrologer:
It falls in your Solar 7th house, so the types and levels of equal relationships will be directly impacted. You may lose a Cancer/Leo person in your life, but I also have no doubt you'll attract another more appropriate to who you are now as opposed to who you used to be. Lunar eclipses have an effect measured in months, while Solar eclipses have effects measured in years. Perhaps it is the end of the old uncertainty, which is a relief in itself, whether it turns out as we wish or not. I suspect it's time for both of you to see the dance differently, so it's resolved one way or another. Your Moon in Leo on his Sun in Leo is a powerful contact that shows a natural affinity. The eclipse is a bit wide to be considered conjunct your Sun/Moon planets, but falling in your 7th it would show an old way of being equal or unequal is over, and you'll find a new way of shining your light in relationships that are more suited to who you are now than who you used to be.
...so why do I keep fighting it?? I guess thats it then, he'll be moving away. I'm disappointed that he didnt email me yesterday (only "good luck!" for my interview) and he didnt call last night and he didnt reply to my email this morning until just before he left work and then he hardly said anything above.
I know you say dont read anything into it Rob, but its frustrating. It looks like he is not so interested in me as he was back in May/June time, apart from that one weekend in 4 that I saw him, 2 weeks ago. This will be the 2nd weekend I havent in a row and I have no idea what he has planned for next weekend.
Time to give up?
Hi Al,
Just because the stars are telling you something or it's an eclipse does not mean you have to give up. This is your choice. When you are ready to walk away and not look back you will do that. I think keeping your focus on your self and your job prospects is the best plan for you right now.
Huge hugs,
W2G
Hey Where!
Yes, thanks for your kind words by the way about my work efforts! My thread locked before I could say that. I need to check your thread for career news too right.
There was one bit of positive in there though, which I already knew "Your Moon in Leo on his Sun in Leo is a powerful contact that shows a natural affinity." - becuase my moon and his sun are exactly conjunct at 28 degrees ish of Leo, this is what is known as a "cosmic marriage" - we used to joke to people that we didnt need to get married for real as this was more than enough and alot of M couples dont even have that!
Hi Ali,
Sorry I've not been around too much of late, but have been catching up with you now. Hmm...I think it's important not to draw any full conclusions about where things are at just yet. Sounds like you'll need to hear more from him, maybe ask him in person about the job stuff, his plans for looking for work when the timing is right. But he sounded like he was investing quite a bit in looking for a job locally regardless of his present job sitch. So, I don't think it's all clear cut just yet. Stars are important, but so is getting a more full story on the ground with him : )
Purr
((((((((Ali)))))))))
My H is a Cancer. I wonder how accurate that might be in our sitch. I'm a Taurus so don't know if it would apply. It sure does appear that the door is closed (more by me than him since I'm the one pushing this through now to get some stability back) now especially since I am holding in my hand a first draft of our settlement agreement.
You are such a strong woman Ali. You are able to hold your head high and know that you are a good friend, amazing woman, and all-around fantastic person!
Keep up the great work on the job front. You are such a go-getter!
Michelle
No news on the job front as of yet for me my friend!
A cosmic marriage sounds fantastic!
You are SOOOOOOO not done girlfriend!! It's obvious from your posts! We will continue to be here for you for as long as you'll let us!
Hugs,
W2G
I am here too. Just don't have much to say. I only want you to be strong and happy...
K
((((((Ali)))))))
Hope your weekend is grand!
(((Ali)))
Enjoy the weekend.
The job stuff sounds like some great opportunities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The interaction with BF sounds really good - friendly and supportive. His depression is bad, nothing will change right now. Don't let that get you down though.
Hey girls, and Purr! I like what you said, funny, get the information on the ground too! And thanks Mishka and Where - you are too kind !!! And hey K and Michelle, its comforting to know that you're "watching".
So, I was away all weekend with my BFF and 2 girls again. The eldest, 7 (who loved him) spent most of the weekend talking about him!!! We built a brilliant dam across a river and she kept going on about how he did that with them last year and how she wished she could see him...loads of times, it really made me sad! I tried calling him before I left Friday teatime, but no answer. Then he texted later saying sorry he missed my call and was with his best friend and would call me later - but he never did. Naturally, this, along with no text messages all weekend (unusual) made me a bit sad all weekend and felt resigned like my last post to trying to get the strength up (a la Kalni) to just say, enough.
So I get home and he had called me Friday! Very sweet, saying he was about to go out (big gang of them, 30th birthday) but to call him when I get chance for a proper chat and if I couldnt talk to him later, to call him tommorow... but of course I only just got the message so never contacted him all weekend! As soon as I hit a low, he always always does just enough to redeem himself and renew my faith. Grr!
I feel bad that I didnt call, but its not my fault and he still couldve tried texting me or something!
I left a message for him at home and tried his mobile - but no answer, so I have a feeling he is still away and will be working at HQ tommorow. I still dont know what his boss said Friday, what date he needs to move by (could be next month) or most imprortantly, how he feels about all of this. And I am so used to the daily contact since April, that when we have these weekends now when he doesnt contact me, I find it really wierd and unsettling. God knows whats going to happen next! I hope he emails tommorow and fills me in..
Oh and the web company said I was very impressive and that I was a strong developer and they definetly want to employ me sometime in the next 2-6 months! So I may finally have got a programming job in Cornwall - thats, as my deceased FIL used to say, rare as rocking horse sh*t. So I'm proud of myself.
Ali xxx
HA!!!! Rare as rocking horse sh*t!!!!! That's hysterical! I'm going to have to steal that one.
Sounds like even though you had a "down" weekend it was still good since you were with BFF and her kids. I'm sorry she kept talking about him but her memories of him will fade in time. Who knows, maybe when he comes out of this depression and gets his head out of his arse she'll be able to make new memories with him just like you will.
(((((((((Ali)))))))))))
(((((((Ali)))))))
You know, I think as you get more and more of your life outside of him in order, the better you are going to be able to handle your life as it concerns him. Keep taking care of you. I think that will make your path clearer!
Hey Al,
Any news from BF? I'm glad he called on Friday and left a message for you. And congratulations on the job- that's FANTASTIC!!!
L. xx
Hey Lisa!
Well, he DID leave me a message Friday, but that was the last I heard from him, so I'm afraid I have been "spinning" a little today...I emailed him today, but no reply, so I figured he felt unwell, or down.. so I texted him at 5.30 to say I had emailed him but he hadnt replied, I hoped he was feeling ok after his weekend... no reply. So then (oh dear) I phoned him at 7. He answered and although he sounded very sweet when he picked up, all soft and sweet and pleased to hear from me..it became clear he didnt want to speak to me.
He said straight off, that he was tired and wiped out and flaked out and other such words and was going to have a really really early night...silence...so I said, oh, I guess you dont want to talk then...no Al, I just want to get a really early night as I'm so tired, but we'll catch up tommorow if thats ok... So I sounded hurt and awkward and didnt handle it well I'm afraid.
Instead I proceeded (oh dear) to ask him a bunch of questions, like how wsa the weekend - ohh, it was ok, alright (sounding fed up), but yes it was really nice to see him BMM (sounding sweet again). I asked him how the night out was Friday with their friend that was 30.. oh..it was ok, alrightish (sounding like it wasnt at all)..So clearly, he was not feeling too good.
Then he said he hadnt been to work today, becuase he couldnt be bothered he felt so wiped out and that he had driven back from Wales today instead of last night as he couldnt face the drive back and that (again) he was too tired to drive yesterday and he was knackered Friday after that meeting...I said I hadnt had a chance to talk to him about all of that..and again he said we'd catch up tommorow properly as he "couldnt concentrate" as he was so tired.
So that was it, he gave me the brush off, we were on the phone about 5 minutes and I feel embarressed about it. I havent seen much of him over hte past 2 weeks and my Mum reckons he is backing off again and is just not interested in me, that hes using me when he's at a loose end...same old negative messages, but then I cant see that he isnt behaving in the way she says. So naturally, not feeling too hopeful again.
Hey Al,
you just described what I would have done 1 year ago with my H and have been doing with all the men in my life. Not giving them space to "cave" and take it personal. It has finally made sense to me that them being quiet, silent, distant from time to time has NOTHING to do with me.
Now, in your case, being in this "non-relationship", his "space" should be even more respected by you. Which means, you did push a bit harder than you should in my humble oppinion. But nothing tragic, don't worry too much. There are a lot of things going on in his head about work now, men CAN NOT handle "two things" at a time, and to them things are pretty simple "WORK' & "ALI"...
Patience (you hate me, Iknow...)
Love
K
Hey Kalni! I know I did, I made a mistake, hence me saying I felt embarressed about it! And now I cant take it back. It gets worse, as I called his moby last night (no answer) and then called him at home, no answer (he was in Wales) and left a message and emailed him today and them did something I haven't done for a year.. I texted him to basically say, hey I emailed you and you didnt answer! Oh dear indeed.
I said on the call earlier "sorry for bothering you, I'll leave you to get on" and he said in his usual reassuring way...you're not bothering me, its ok, I'm just really tired.
I've missed him lately, its lovely to see my BFF, but I knew it would mean that I wouldnt see him much. I can see it isnt to do with me, you are right, but it still hurts a little that he can spend 5 days in France giving all that time to one of his BMF and then 3 days in Wales again giving all that time and attention to his bestest of BMF and then me? I've seen him for about 3 hours in the past fortnight. Says it all hey!?
Yes, we are now in a non-R, you are right and I have NO right to ask him why he hasnt replied (although to be fair, I was checking that he was ok as I knew he would be feeling low - which he is I guess, being 'tired' is all about his depression). And I wish I hadnt called him now!
So I STILL dont know what happened Friday and how he feels about it!
Ali:
In my experiences with H....he seldom remembers the stuff I have screwed up...or gotten upset about...or "blown". Usually within a couple of days, it's like it never happend.
People going through MLC must also have some sort of dimensia when it comes to memory...???
Hang in there!
Hugs!
BA
(((((((((Ali))))))))))))
Hang on sweetie! Don't contact him again. I know you already know that it was a mistake, just don't make it again.
Even if he calls you, don't hang on the phone. Wrap up the conversation quickly and make it known that you have things to do. Don't be available to him. He needs to miss you, that's your only weapon right now. It's also good for you to drop the rope - completely.
We're here for you Ali! You know we all love you and only want the best for you!
Hey girls, well, I had eclipse fever. Our R was ruled by eclipse dates so I got my hopes up when I spotted these eclipses (and falls in a very significant place in my chart). When the solar eclipse fell there before 10 years ago, we were friends and he blurted out that he loved me on that eclipse, August 1998..then on the next eclipse, 6 months later, we had our first kiss. He moved in with me officially on the eclipse in July 2000...We moved to Cornwall on the weekend of the eclipse in 2006, he told me he was unhappy and wanted space, on the lunar eclipse 28th August and moved out on the solar eclipse, 11 September...
The eclipse on 16th August hits our Sun/Moon combination prettu close, but not exact...and its said to be linked to conversations and events from the last lunar eclipse on 6th Feb.
Hmm...6th Feb was when he started chatting to me by text message after NC since Christmas, which led to him ASKING to see me the next day. I remember becuase it was so significant, he hadnt wanted to spend time with me since he had withdrawn the previous August (and then once he left in November, he didnt want to spend time with me at all). His email 8th Feb was the first little step toward me, asking if I was free on the weekend and he came to see me on the Saturday, it was my first baby step.
for my benefit!Then, on the next eclipse in the series back then, on 21st Feb was the Friday that he went to the cinema with his friend...and then texted me the next day to admit to me for the first time that he felt "low" and had driven home for the weekend - I found out later that he had arrived at his BMF house in tears and told him he may have made a mistake in leaving me. But his BMF advised him not to say anything to me!!
and so here we are, in the middle of two eclipses, back in the place they were 10 years ago, when I was gobsmacked to learn that my best friend actually was in love with me (and I had had no idea).
((((((Ali))))))
Sounds like he is really struggling.
You definitely had a backslide, but I'm sure you will recover beautifully.
That's very interesting about the eclipses.
Hi Ali...just checking in.
Try not to call Him and when you do talk to him don't mention anything about your tiny backslide. If you don't mention it he'll think it wasn't a big deal. If you make it a big deal so will he.
The eclipse is interesting for sure...hope the next one is more positive than some of the others.
Hang in there ok.
Hello, so not doing so well again, crying on and off all day like yesterday. He emailed me after lunch telling me a bit about the meeting Friday (but still no specifics) that his boss did agree the timescale was harsh.
He asked me about that interview and ended his email "still feeling really tired..." So I replied about the job, validated some stuff about his tiredness and job and also said again that drinking on the tablets could make him more tired, but ask the doc.
He wrote back at 5.31 - so knowing I would have left/too late for me to reply probably, saying, well here it is and it made me cry all over again. He just isnt coming back is he...
Wow - you never know what it'll lead to then? Are you going to get brushing up on your programming skills/jargon etc - are there any online type things to help?
Yeah, got an early night but didn't sleep too well, gonna try again tonight - it has to work eventually. Work OK today but feeling it now - think I'm running on coffee. Busy-ish finishing off a few report that will be good to get gone. Weekend probably didn't help tiredness - lots of booze. Think i will ask the doctor about it.
Anyway, I'm off now - hope you're day wasn't too boring (?!)
me
..it upset me he emailed me last thing, so feels deliberate, that he said great about the job - what does he think I am going to do, be happy to stay living down here by myself and work for some small company, with no friends or family nearby and a broken heart? Sorry to put it that way, but he has no idea does he of how devastated I have been (as I havent told him).
Hey Al,
Sorry you're not feeling good. I don't think BF is really thinking through what he says to you right now, or thinking of your feelings and thoughts (as you know). All he can think of is keeping himself afloat- trying to deal with the depression. In many ways his first paragraph about the job reminds me of my H and the almost overenthusiastic talking about how great my life is, when in fact I've just told him I've clipped my toenails. It'd go something like
Me: I've clipped my toenails
H: Wow. That's really great news. You must be really pleased about that and so happy in your life now. Walking must be so much easier. You're going to go far in your life
H really thinking: I don't know what to say. I don't want her to be far away from me, I want her to be here with me, but how can I expect that after what I've done? I don't deserve her, and she deserves so much better than me.
Maybe I'm completely off track; something just resonated. I genuinely don't think BF imagines you living the high life down there alone. I think he's not thinking and reacting to the moment because he has so much to think about for himself right now. he has nothing to give; don't take it to heart. As T would say, go through the sadness.
Are you thinking of telling him you're upset? Just reading between the lines of your last sentence.
L. xx
Wow, thanks Lisa, if only you had posted earlier !!! That really helped me and I think you are right. WHY CANT I SEE THESE THINGS !?? Sorry for shouting but its like I just dont get it and take everything personally and my poor Mum and BFF have to patiently explain over and over "its not you, its him".
So, I had another backslide and am not feeling too good...I phoned him tonight. Negatives - loads. It was awkward, I was awkward, he sounded ratty and tired and hassled (mainly work stuff)...I was lacking in confidence, sounding down, hardly saying much, reacting weierdly to things he said, just to get him to open up (I kept saying - Oh really?..you are?..or..um, do you think?) and he noticed.
He said it was briliant news about my job and I said "is it?" and he said, well yes, it is isnt it! And I said in a fed up bitter kind of voice... well, depends which way you look at it.
I then went straight to asking him about his job situation and he wasnt comfortable talking about it (although we did for ages) as he said it was "irritating" and I apologised for phoning and asking and he said, its just an irritating subject as he's angry at the way he's been treated. I found out that he hasnt got a date for moving, nor has he thought about moving at all yet, he will "cross that bridge when it comes to it" and that moving back to HQ was going to be "a last resort" anyway. In the meantime, he spoke with a boss down here again today about switching onto geotechnics stuff, which is a long shot.
I didnt ask him WHY he doesnt want to move away, but I assume its to do with making a new life here and not wanting to go backwards to his old life and old him and nothing to do with me.
I told him the new tenant for "our" house had signed the lease and he said "brilliant!" and we have to get together to counter sign, but he didnt seem too bothered about meeting up, said any day, he was easy, but that he was busy Saturday (again, arranged stuff on the weekend) - his friend got him tickets for a all day/night gig/surf weekend thing. So I said (oh dear), oh I would have liked to have gone to that and he said "yeah, I'm not sure theres any tickets left actually" and then there was a big silence.
Postives? None, except toward the end of the convo he said his BMF had wanted him to call him yesterday, but that he couldnt face it, he said I didnt want to speak to ANYONE and he didnt want to talk to him tonight either. So I apologised for phoning him last night, but he said, thats ok, I was just shattered. He moaned about his Mum calling earlier as he didnt want to chat to her, but thought he should get it out the way when he saw her number flash up. Then I said sorry for calling him tonight and he told me, thats ok, I was going to give you a ring later actually...so I said thanks thats nice as I know you dont feel like talking..and I made it worse by going on about how I dont want to be like his mother to him and is heart sink when he sees my number, but I have a free dialer so he cant tell its me anyway and he said "no, I knew it was you, thats why I picked up" but not in a hugely reassuring voice, but I was still surprised at this.
Which then made me lighten up a bit. I wish I hadnt called him but waited. If he had called me, I would've been very pleased and chatty and way more confident, instead of embarressed and awkward and saying wierd stuff. I dont understand WHY he was going to call me though. My Mum reckons he just feels a huge amount of guilt and also a bit responsible for me. Who knows?
But... I need to face facts dont I, he is not coming back to me. Depression, not in love, wants to be single, MLC, I'm boring, whatever the reason is, he has put a very firm boundary up last year and so far has never crossed it or once said he's even wavering, just stuck to his decision all along.
(((((((((Ali)))))))))))))
I so wish I could be right there with you to give you a real hug. I sense you and I both need one.
I want to post so much more to you but I'm going to have to wait until later because I have to take my son to karate right now. As soon as I get back I'll give you some more thoughts on this but for now just know that I am here for you and thinking of you sweetness. Take care!
Thanks Mishka..I have a feeling I will still be awake!
I had a fantastic, now world renowned astrologer as my teacher years ago in 1998. He used me as an example one lesson on Synastry - with my chart combined with first the current bf I was living with at the time (a Leo) and then my now exBf who I was best friends with at the time...because on the eclipse in Leo, August 1998, my current ex blurted out that he loved me and wanted to be with me and I was torn. I was amazed, as we were just friends.
In this lesson, autumn 2008 we looked at mine and the charts of the two Leo men and this astrologer said, he could see it wouldnt last with my current bf and the synastry with the other guy was phemononal, but that if we got together, the R would only last 10 years, until the last eclipse in Leo in the series.
And its August 2008, 10 years later and the last eclipse in Leo was Friday - when my bf got told for certain he has to move back to HQ. And since then, he has gone all odd on me, being non-communicative and not bothered about meeting up and I can just tell that something has changed this weekend.
So, I guess I am freaked out that the prediction seems to be coming true. But then we are going to have to have some kind of R, as we own property together and are still friends I guess.
We had our first kiss on the solar eclipse in Aquarius, February 1999. The next eclipse, 16 August 2008 falls in exactly the same spot 9 1/2 years later, except its a Full Moon lunar eclipse and is said to be the culmination of a relationship issue. The final one in the Aquarius series is February 2009.
I guess theres DBing and then theres knowing when you're beat. Hence all the crying this week.
Hi Ali,
Just racing to get caught up on your thread, sorry I've been out of the loop a bit on things. This sounds like a really painful place you've been at. Mixed messages and the whole bit aren't exactly making this any easier, are they?
I want to respond more to what you've been saying, but I need to run; just didn't want you to think I'd forgotten about you. I've been thinking of you.
((((((Ali))))))
Purr
Thanks Purr, thats very kind of you, I've been thinking about you too but seem incapable of posting anything useful to anyone, except these long rambles. Its like I can see my life unfolding with this horrid inevitability and I'm powerless to stop it. It freaks me out just how much of our R was linked to eclipses.
The lesson I was talking about above, was August 1998 of course. I remember it so clearly as this guy was definite about the 10 year timing. My BFF remembers that for the first couple of years of my R, I was blase about getting M as I used to joke, well whats the point, its only going to last 10 years anyway...
Wow Ali thats quite spooky.
I blamed all my "troubles on the millenium and all the hype it got, but my H changed suddenly in Aug 99.
I know alot of people who had real relationship problems about that time mostly older men like my h who had just turned 50.
I guess if you believe astrology stuff it's hard to unbelieve when the forcasts/predictions are NOT what you want to hear or know.
Lots of TLC for you and be kind to yourself.
Hey Ali...just catching up on your posts. Sorry things are a bit confusing right now. Just take a deep breath...you've been here before and seen positive changes....they will appear when you least expect it. Don't be so hard on yourself...you are a strong woman and you can get through this rough patch!
Thinking of you!
BA
((((((Ali))))))))
I hope that you are not up now. That would mean either you never went to bed or you couldn't sleep and are back up at 5am in front of the computer. I'll hope you have finally gotten some rest.
I find it so eerie about the eclipses and your R. I have never really paid much attention to astrology because I believe that life is what we chose to make of it and that through a R with Christ we can be given direction that is pleasing to Him. I know that my beliefs are not necessarily what everyone here believes but they have brought me a lot of comfort.
What brings you comfort Ali? It can't be a R with another person, even your BFF. It needs to be something that does not rely on the responses of another person. If you rely on human beings to uplift you and help make you happy then you are already doomed for failure. Humans are horribly flawed creatures and can not be counted on. Do you meditate? You need some help finding your center Ali. That would take your focus off of your R with BF and put it squarely back on yourself where it belongs.
What about your art? Are you working on any projects right now? I loved the pics you posted of your art. It's so interesting and deep. What about a new show piece?
Your R with BF is over for now. That doesn't mean that it will always be that way but it is has come to a period. End of sentence. Time for a new paragraph. Live your life for you. Let BF live his. I know you will have to be in contact because of your property but other than that, you need to let him go now and figure out himself. The constant contact with him is only sufficing to keep you on edge. Drop the rope Ali. Drop it, fray the end, and don't look back. Let him climb that rope and re-braid the ends if he so chooses. Your work is done darling. That doesn't mean to let go of the possibility but that does mean to stop living in the past. Let it go. BF is stuck and he's making you stuck.
I know I'm rambling. That's what happens with posts after midnight.
I was so tired but I just had to get my thoughts to you. I feel your pain, I understand it completely. I just want you to feel happy again and this dysfunctional R is not going to do it. It would have to be built into a whole new R and that can only happen when your BF gets his own crap together.
((((((((((((((LOVE TO YOU ALI!!!!)))))))))))))
Ali darling,
this is gonna be quick but I think the reason he talks to you isn't out of guilt or feeling the need to care for you. it is because you are the only person he feels comofrtalbe turning to when everything is crappy crap crap. you are more trustworthy to him than his own BMF. that is why he called you and not BMF to talk about his job sitch.
that means A LOT.
and you are NOT BORING. your voice is amazing... your energy is awesome. you are always learning and doing new projects, such a majorly juicy person!!
hang in there, please, I really don't think this is over! maybe the astrologer dind't have the "rebirth of new relationship out of the ashes of the old" category as a possibility when they read your charts, cause that's what I see....
LOVE
T
Thanks T, and Mishka, and Purr! Been feelign soooo low this week. Just really tearful. Called my C and wil make an appt.
So we emailed a bit today, but at my instigation..we had soem mortgage stuff to sort out. He was ok but sounds distant these days, no "are you ok?" no suggestions to meet up, no "me" on the end. I just can see that its coming to a head and not in the way I hoped. I havent seen him for the past 2 weekends and this weekend hes arranged to do soemthing agaon, so thats 3 - well thats unusual, apart from when he was skiing or France, previously there was only 1 weekend since Feb taht I didnt see him when he was in Cornwall. So, at the mo, we need to meet to sign this lease (sometime in the next week) but so far he hasnt suggested a date to do that. Feeling pretty "eclipsed" right now.
Sorry I cant post, I'm having trouble eating even !!!
Ali xxx
Ali sweets, try to take it easy. Take care of yourself while going through this still. It totallys sucks, that's a given, but you need to keep yourself healthy at the same time.
(((Ali)))
I know it sucks, but try and do something - whether its exercise, artwork, sleeping, crying it all out, whatever. And please eat. I know it's hard, but take care of yourself. I wish I lived close enough to make you soup.
Me too. Ali, can you get out of town for this weekend and occupy yourself with something else that you enjoy?
((((((((((Ali))))))))))
I'd help with the soup....
Though I'd be tempted to skip right to dessert, and make a cheesecake!
(((Ali)))
I don't have any advice to give, just sending you lots of good thoughts and wishes and Key Lime pie when I make it this weekend! Hope you are ok
Jx
(((((((((((((((((Ali))))))))))))))))))))
Huge hugs hun!
W2G
((((((((((((Ali))))))))))))))
Hi there! Stopping by to give you huge hugs and to let you know I am thinking of you. I am not sure what advice would be helpful right now. Just know that we all understand and know that you will work your way through this in your own time.
Hey everyone,
Thanks for your hugs! No word from him for a few days. The eclipse seems to have precipitated some gap between us, either that or its because my BFF was here and he wanted to stay out of the way.
So where are we? I spent much of the weekend with him 3 weeks ago - Saturday he bought dinner to mine, then we went for a drink till midnight and talked nonstop. I asked him to stay the night. He said sorry, but he was tired and needed to go home and hugged me but said in a placating voice "but we'll go for a bike ride tommorow". He called me Sunday and we went for a bike ride all afternoon, he was quiet and distant. He didnt seem to want to leave, so we went for a drink, then the supermarket, cooked dinner at mine and watched TV till late. Again I asked him to stay, but he said sorry, but I have work in the morning.
He phoned me Monday and Tuesday night and had a nice chat both nights aand we emailed 8 or 9 times Mon-Wed. He then phoned me Friday night for 45 minutes about this work decision, but was away back home and with friends till Monday, so I didnt hear from him all weekend, apart from one text in reply to mine.
He phoned me twice Tuesday night (!) and we had a nice chat and he invited me to the cinema the next day. We met for a drink before and after the cinema Wednesday night and he said he was very tired and the work stuff had made his depression worse. He was distant and ranting about work and showed no interest in me.
I had a one line email Thursday and Friday. I called him teatime (eclipse day!), but he was away with his BMF. He called me back but sadly I missed the call (!) and didnt get the message till Sunday night. He didnt contact me all weekend. I tried calling him back Sunday and emailed and texted Monday, but no replies. I called him Monday night and he gave me the brush off as he said he was too tired to talk and "couldnt concentrate". (He later told me he ignored calls from his BMF and Mum that night as he was SO tired).
I called him Tuesday night and he said he was going to give me a ring. He sounded a bit cross, but said he was "irritated" by the work decision, but we talked for 40 minutes and he apologised for being "useless" about our finances and offered to help. I was quiet and unconfident and the convo was awkard (isnt normally). We emailed a bit Tuesday and Wednesday, both initiated by me because of money, but he still seems distant. He said he was going to the doctors again this week.
I emailed him this morning, about money and asking how he was, no reply.
Thoughts anyone!? Not sure what to do next. I suppose its time to have a chat with him, ask him how he is, or why he kept phoning and seeing me so regularly since February. Is he keeping me in his life for a reason, or, is he just finding it hard to let go of me? My BFF says you can only talk about yourself, as in, I have enjoyed spending time with you, but have missed seeing you in recent weeks.. or something !?
...and I'm not ignoring the fact he has depression here, but then, he is filling his life and organising to spend time with friends..2 weeks ago he went to a beer festival, a barbecue, then last weekend a 30th party and then a music festival with his BMF. Football and then the pub this Wednesday, he's off to beach music festival this weekend (so that will be 3 weekends in a row I havent seen him). So, he is just getting on with his life.
Initially it seemed hopeful with him coming back into my life in February and all the contact we enjoyed end April - June, but it has never progressed from there and my friends think he just found it hard to let go of me and it has just been trying to redefine our R as friendship. Which wasnt what I wanted!
*hugs* Ali...
One of the things that comes to mind is something one of my very best friends dealt with. She switched her ADs and for months it tended to zap her energy levels. I guess while the brain is going through whatever it's supposed to be going through... there are energy issues with some of the types of ADs. I forget what she's on but she said it really DID knacker her energy levels. She's evening out now (some 5 months later) but it does take time.
Mine: Cipralex(Lexpro)actually has the opposite problem for some people... zooms you up so while you're getting used to it... I have downers to deal with the panic attacks and/or to help me sleep. Another pal of mine switched to my ADs and is still having trouble sleeping as well.
My own comments is that perhaps your BF's depression/AD level isn't correct because of alcohol ... or maybe the ADs are just not enough on their own. I do feel at times like my dosage isn't high enough either... and those lower days... I tend to be tired.... even though I may not be able to sleep. I call it swimming or walking through oatmeal. My capacity to deal with stuff those days is really greatly lowered as a result.
Sleep... or feeling tired and wanting to... for some depression folks is an escape. It certainly has become one for me. It's a time where the mind ISN'T going full blast with worries and whatnot.
Perhaps you might find ways to go watch vids at your place where he can fall asleep on the couch etc. (And yes... leave him there, cover him with a blanket and let him feel safe.)
As for a reason why he's kept you in his life... uhm... wow... You sent me to read One Day's posts... and her session with the DB counsellor said something very prolific:
- H isn't going to let go of the aub until he's 100% sure things with me are a sure thing. I need to take my focus away from this and move it to helping H feel good about himself again
Lisa, you and I (and many others) all have to realize that our men have to go through their processes and are torn, confused, etc etc etc. Whether it's drink or another woman or drugs or whatever, they're doing what they're doing to make themselves feel good about themselves. Personally, I wouldn't undo all the progress you've done by asking him why he's kept contact with you. Cuz frankly he probably doesn't know... and that'll send him into yet another place in his life that puts pressure on him. Our job is to be "the stable one". It sucks but it's the reality we have.
The advice I'm trying to give myself is the same as I'm going to give you. Stay the course. The ride has lots of ups and downs and you need to gently nudge him into his safety zone again. He's got to see "the wonderful himself" through YOUR eyes. That's what we actually see when we love someone in a reciprocal relationship. If we receive this "great mirrored" image from someone, we gravitate to it. If you feel wonderful/smart/sexy etc etc etc around someone, you are naturally going to want to be near that person. Same with safe.
One of the "getting closer techniques" I'm finding working is the "titt for tatt" convos. I'll tell my H something more personal about myself and he returned in kind. What you're doing is creating what becomes "things you know about each other that others don't". Intimacy rebuilding. Building a house on a vacant lot is much quicker than building on one where you have to clear up debris (from the old relationship/emotions) first. Patience and time.... Isn't easy and I slip as much as everyone else here... but it's really one of our best friends in these kinds of sitch. Our spouses still want us around... building things back up will take time.
*hugs*
Abbey
Hi Abbey!
Thanks as always. It is helpful to get your perspective. He is on fluoxedine (sp?) and drinking alot on weekends and occasional one night in the week. He sounds like you then in that he is constantly saying he is tired and wants to get an early night and I know that when he says he's tired, he is actually (or also) feeling down. Well he says that to me, then spends alot of time seeing friends and going away for weekends.
My sister said, I know you've been understanding as he has depression, but he seems capable of seeing people all the time, more than you, whereas if he were depressed I thought he would prefer to see you as that would be easier, less draining, as he knows you so well and doesnt have to pretend around you. ???
Lost it today, been crying on and off alot. No email or call from him Thursday. Emailed him at 11 am today, he didnt reply. Called him at home 8.30pm - no answer, called his mobile, went straight to voicemail so must have been out of signal (happens here). Rang a friend, span out, cried some more.
Called him at 9.30 on his mobile...this time it rang, then went to voicemail. So he either didnt hear it, or chose not to answer (likely as he seems to have backed off considerably since last week). Left an embarressed message along the lines of "sorry its late to call, was wondering how you were really, hope you're ok, give me a ring, or a text to let me know how you are".
Oh dear. Feeling very anxious today. Whatever he was playing at, or whatver I was doing right for the past 6 months, it seems to have stopped. I got so used to him calling me every day, then last week he called Tuesday, I saw him Wednesday and he returned my call Friday, but this week he hasnt called me at all.
Well, wherever he is, he will have got my voicemail and he hasnt replied. Feel sick, I know its ridiculous, but its like being left all over again. I have enjoyed so much contact with him, more than most people posting here and its horrible that its led to nothing - like I've failed some kind of test.
I hear what you are saying, but I cant seem to make him feel wonderful, or sexy or safe in my eyes, I just dont seem to have any effect on him. I even tell him he looks handsome, or its lovely to spend time with him, or I'm proud of his efforts at work and he just doesnt respond to it.
I guess I am feeling angry. It feels like he has led me a merry dance the last 6 months. I know he thinks though, that he has made me no promises and never crossed that boundary, so he hasnt acted in a way I could have expected anything. Maybe I have just been kidding myself all along ?? Applying DB techniques haa just stopped me from having any kind of real conversation with him and seeing baby steps which were in fact just friendship, or him just not being able to let go of me all at once.
Hmm... I have a feeling noones going to know what to say to help me out, as usual! When will this pain stop? Its almost getting worse, not better, over time.
Hi Al,
I don't know when the pain will stop. It's going to take time; you know that, I know. You need to detach. Don't expect anything from BF, just hope for it.
It seems to me, reading the past couple of posts that recently you've been contacting BF a lot more, and it seems like that isn't working. So, you need to do something different. One thing you've mentioned is speaking to him. The other option might be to back off- let him be in his cave and trust that he'll come to you when he's done with his thinking. Remember it wasn't that long ago that my H was in touch every day, and then he backed off and interaction dropped significantly for 8 weeks. Now he seems to be emerging again.
Don't ASS-U-ME based on his very recent behaviour. Develop detachment, and please stop listening to what other people tell you about BF's actions. Sometime's if you're down it's hardest to spend time with people who can see it. I know if it was me who was depressed the last thing I'd want to do is spend time with someone who I felt was able to see into my soul and see exactly what I was feeling/thinking. I'd want to try and feel normal as much as I could. Maybe I don't know anything about this, but isn't it possible that there's more than one explanation for why BF is able to see other people?
Sorry if this seems harsh; I don't mean it to!
L.
Gosh, didnt sound harsh at all, bless you! Ahh, so me and you are on our computers on a Friday night, I'm so glad you are here! But what a shame for us both. I did think about you today and how your H has reemerged, whereas my ex never went away until recently! Its this eclipse stuff, our whole R has hit eclipse dates on the nail. The 7th Feb and 21st Feb were SO significant (when he got back in touch and then told his friend he may have made a mistake, respectively). This eclipse is linked to Feb in that its the culmination of the efforts of the past 6 months, make or break time. Looks like break.
I am glad you said that about the depression thing - does he stay away from me when he feels low as it makes him feel worse in reflection as he CANT pretend with me ? You could be right. Abbey.. any thoughts?
Also, I realise I have been spinning and contacting him loads and that is not good and clearly not working. I know I need to stop it and give up/give in. I resolved this morning to NOT contact him, then emailed him and phoned him 4 times. Its just humiliating. I wish I could meet some fab new bloke and breathe a sigh of relief and blow a rasberry in his face and say Neerrrr! Happy now? No? Well, I am!
Clearly, I am dealing with some anger now. Oh and he never replied to my message, so he is ignoring me tonight. Thats what it was like 6 months back in Feb. Not looking good.
I think it just doesn't look good for the current level of contact- back off and see if something changes. I'd be willing to bet that he'll start contacting you again; for whatever reason he needs his space at the moment. Maybe he's thinking and starting to realise how much damage has been done?
It's nice to see you too tonight. I was out earlier but got in an hour or so ago; always tired on Fridays so I don't like going out too late! (How old am I?!)
Do you think it's worth speaking to a DB coach? It's not cheap but I found it really worthwhile to get an opinion when I was questioning whether I should carry on or not.....
(((((((((Ali)))))))))
Lisa beat me to it! I think it is time to back off a bit. I think he needs to process a bit. And maybe you do, too?
Well, in other news, I made another new friend at work! She saw my book on eclipses and got chatting to me, we went to lunch today and she invited me out for a drink tommorow night! I was glad it wasnt tonight as I am like you - I like to flop at home on a Friday night !! You went to your PMA thing didnt you? I will check your thread for the results of that !
You are probably right about him contacting me if I leave him be - you are a genius! This is as calm as I have felt all evening. I have chanced contacting him when I wanted since April and not worried about it as much as now. So, I need to stop contacting him altogether? He has this moving away thing hanging over him of course and I guess he is consumed by that and it must be worrying him.
I think thats a good idea about the DB coach, although looking at how its going, it could be bit horse/stable door !? How much is it then and how long do you get on the phone with them? (and do you spend much of that time explaining the history !?)
Hey Jeff!! So, you would favour backing off, as opposed to trying to talk to him?
Glad you're feeling calmer!
I wouldn't back off totally, in the sense that when BF contacts you, you should reply in kind. Maybe send the occassional short e-mail (every other day?) in a no-pressure way (sharing a joke, observation etc). The Coach I spoke to said that my instinct would be to caretake H and that I need to be wary of doing that because he needs to feel that he can handle things himself. I just wonder if BF needs the same?
A single coaching session is about £70, and I got an hour for that. Spent about 30 minutes explaining the situation (mine was long- probably similar to the length of time you'd need?) and then had the rest of the time as advice and things she suggested I try. I found it really worthwhile (and I was REALLY sceptical as only a science-girl can be!)
Hurray on the new friend! That's fantastic news!!
Thanks for that! Seems you can email a short history before hand, maybe could speed it up a little?
So I called them and I can have a slot on Thursday, but said I would think about it as its expensive. Plus, somehting is amiss, so maybe its too late already? - he never replied to my message, which he hasnt done for months, even last Friday when he was away and missed my call, he phoned back an hour later. Its also wierd that he didnt reply to my email today. Maybe he met someone Wednesday night!?
Things have been different since he saw his BMF on the weekend. This guy is a real advocate of moving on and it being fro the best, these things just happen - I called him just after the bomb and thats what he said, not all love lasts forever, its sad, but people break up, end of. This is the first time my BF has seen him since Christmas and I know that if he found out he has been seeing me all this while, he would tell him to stop it, leave me alone to get over him. My BF did say ominously on the phone Tuesday, that it was good to see BMF and to have a chat with him "about things".
This is such an exhausting journey I have been on, really wierd.
(((((((Ali)))))))
I'm thinking about all of this. I'm not ready to say anything yet.... I'm being still. I think that might be the best plan for you, too, right now.
I will say, don't take one day's actions as an indicator. There are too many possible reasons for him not responding today, try to let that go.
Ok Jeff! I will be still.. I will go lie in bed and sleep, I'm SO tired! I cried and cried and cried earlier this evening. Its so odd though, the lack of contact since he went to the pub with his mate Wednesday night - and thats the night he had first offered to meet up with me to sign this lease, then he emailed to say he was meeting a friend instead. Seems kinda fishy to me. Then to not contact me at all for 2 days and ignore my email today and my phone message tonight, I hope he is ok! I wouldnt be surprised if he met someone..it was kinda in his stars to between these eclipses (I was hoping it would be me catching his eye!)
I guess I just wont contact him again now all weekend - I know he is at a beach festival tommorow all day and night and will therefore be hungover on Sunday anyway.
Ali, what eo you think he would do if you stopped contacting him now?
Hey Jeff, morning! (guess you are in bed now).
I dont know? What do you think? I dont think anything dramatic would happen, he's been letting go of me for the past year.. if I back off too, I think things will naturally fade away between us. I think contact would wane and then in a few weeks, he will HAVE to move away, as they will be expecting him to start work up country, despite him saying he would "cross that bridge when I come to it" and it would be "the last resort". I dont see what else he can do, he cant get another job down here and he said he wouldnt give up his job.
I have been hoping to reconcile this past 6 months but I dont think he has. I think he just wanted some comfort from me, and as he said "I really care about you Al". I've been trying to get it straight in my mind whats happened over the past few weeks, but I cant. Its confused, as he has this work stuff hanging over him and my BFF was here for 2 weeks. But he hasnt initiated contact for a week and a half now, which is unprecedented since February I think. He hasnt responded yet to my messages yesterday, so he is clearly avoiding/ignoring me. I guess I will find out as he does have to see me sometime this week to sign this lease, unless he asks me to post it to him. Really looking like end of the road to me.
My sister said, I know you've been understanding as he has depression, but he seems capable of seeing people all the time, more than you, whereas if he were depressed I thought he would prefer to see you as that would be easier, less draining, as he knows you so well and doesnt have to pretend around you. ???
But Ali, it doesn't work that way. Logically, she's right, BUT... there is nothing logical about depression - until it evens out. You can't do that for him... that's his road, his path.
I've tried for 3 months to get my ass off the couch on Thursday night to go do a Karaoke night, that I think would be fun. I managed to do one Saturday early on, but this is new place, where I wouldn't know anyone etc etc etc. I get all geared up and then I don't want to go when the time comes. I've talked to friends that on one day I want to see... and have a great time... and then other times I just don't want to see those same friends. I feel (even though EVERY LAST ONE of this inner circle)... understand and support my DBing,... sometimes it's overwhelming. Even being happy, doing or trying to do happy things gets exhausting. Other times, that wishywashyness is directed at my H. I went dark.... managed to keep him at bay for almost a month... then he started calling me... we went out Sunday. It was really nice. But the next day I feel down. Wished I hadn't broke dark etc. Then I miss him, then I don't want to see him, then I want to call him, then I want him to just not contact me, then I want him to f'g grow his brain back.
Why am I telling you all this?... think of it this way. I came to the conclusion that my H isn't ready to reconcile. But ya know what... neither am I yet. And neither are you two....
yet.I mean yes, you and I would jump into this on a good day and reconcile on a heart beat, but there's still too much STUFF to deal with in our sitchs. Lisa is extremely correct, the detaching is a MUST. It's enough of a roller coaster ride, enough of a tax on our emotions, enough of a crazy making process without the self preservation we need of some detachment. Somehow we all have to de-invest in the outcome. (not become utterly ambivalent... but instead calm down and be steady. Sounds strange and impossible... but when the outcome becomes too much of our focus - such as it is with you at the moment, the focus to moving forward, the "end goal" loses focus, and you get stuck in the mud of the hurdles you're facing today.
Lisa said in her post about her session:
- There is hope in my situation, but I need to settle in for the long haul. H and I are currently friendly, but not in friendship That applies to you and I too. I think we probably owe Lisa money ... her session was "you and I sitch specific" too.
Steady... easy does it... this is a long distance endurance challenge. Pacing yourself is about you... protecting you... keeping you from being "unready" when the spouse finally comes around.
*hugs*
Abbey
Hi Al,
I think if you back off for a bit you'll give him time and space to think about things. From what I can see, he's got this job thing facing him and he doesn't want to go. Having decided he doesn't want to go away (from you- since you're the main thing he's got down there), he's got to be asking himself why not. After all, in WAS world, they left us thinking we were the source of their misery. Your BF has made a decision (staying down there) that would make him question that action. Now he needs time to think about it and come to terms with what that means in his own mind.
I genuinely don't think he'd let you sleep on top of him all night if he didn't still have feelings for you.
It's only the end of the road when YOU decide it is. Be still for now. Watch and wait for the lease signing day. You've been at this for so long, a few days longer won't hurt.
(((((((((((((Ali)))))))))))))))
Abbey and Lisa have given you such great advice. Detach.......it's NOT easy, it doesn't feel natural, but it certainly doesn't mean you're giving up. You need to stop contacting him in order to preserve your own sanity. It has nothing to do with being aloof and mysterious to him, it serves to bring you to a place of peace. I've learned the hard way. Of course, DON'T take my outcome as an example of great DB'ing!
It seems to me that your BF has so many life altering changes going on right now that he doesn't really know what to do about your lives together so he does nothing. Retreat is not always surrender Ali, it could be re-grouping, rallying the troops for more battle. So.......separate yourself and rally your troops!
You're stronger than you are feeling right now. Only you know how far you are willing to take this fight.
Sorry I don't have much sage advice for you but I just want to be your cheerleader - is that ok? I care so much about you Ali and the pain in your posts is so clear. I wish I were right there for you to give you a big hug and take you out for all sorts of fun adventures. Instead, we'll have to settle for virtual drinks on the board.
What'll ya have?????????
Ali, I’ll take it one step further. Having to be “up” when you can’t be... makes one feel like a failure. Uhm... I don’t discuss my music with my H... why?... cuz he is my biggest fan... and right now, it’s like trudging through cement to get those musical creative juices flowing. I even said at times, he/this sitch has stolen my music away from me. I feel like a failure musically when he kept asking me:... so you been doing jams ... meeting new musicians? (Clearly I have other priorities... and that isn’t top of the list, ya know?) The failure aspect is further amplified that I felt like a failure musically during the marriage... I feel like I’m not showing him any improvement, ya know?
So.... The parallel... every couple has this approval or disapproval = self esteem/ego thing. Your BF may just feel like he’d be disappointing you – why or for what isn’t really important... it’s making him cave into his bat cave emotionally towards you. My H would ask, and I’d feel like – my no answer would be showing him, that I wasn’t “getting along”... wasn’t ... well I wasn’t putting forth the right face for the DB techniques among other aspects. Your further parallel... your BF still isn’t out of his emotional funk, he knows you know that... sometimes that’s enough to make someone feel like a failure or send them into a downward spiral.
Variety for your BF, is about him getting his footings to poke his head back out of the cave emotionally towards you. You’re doing all the work right now ... STOP IT! Let him do some of the work... back off... let him get some self esteem and self discipline and contact you. Hard, yes... but absolutely necessary.
As for the 6 months... yeah... I’m there too... Feb. Long haul. I walked out of a resto on my H and told him to FO. Told him I never wanted to see him again etc etc etc. HEEEEEEEEE, after realizing that me distancing myself FROM him wasn’t a joke... he started making the effort. It’s ONE baby step. Not ready to renew our vows in Vegas or anything quite yet.
Ya might even want to try that... instead of focusing on “getting back together”... focus on an event that is more representative, more what’s the word I’m looking for here, more symbolic ... and easier to mould/cultivate as the ride goes up and down. Do I care if we did vows? Nope. Do I care if it was in Vegas? Nope.
You see what I"m getting at here? Think about you and the BF vacationing in Australia or something. Something that you don't care if it really happens per say... but is symbolic of your goal to be back together. You just don't get so disappointed. It's not a cure all... but it can make it easier.
As for your BF’s friend, don’t worry about him. I’m sure lots of our spouses got advice that said move on etc... and they may get all resolved for a couple of days, but then fall back into the relationship “circle”... like we do. All of us too have been told to move on, etc.... why haven’t we? Why do we fall back into our scripts?... cuz we want to keep trying. Same with them... those of us with spouses who have contact... still wanna be here ... Something INSIDE is telling them not to slam the door. No friends advice can compete with that or influence it enough to be worthy of your worry.
*hugs*
Abbey
Hey Abbey, Lisa, Mishka!
Thanks Mishka, but really I dont know what I have done to deserve such nice words! If I were that great...he'd want me back hey. I know I shouldnt say it, but really...?
Yes Lisa, I remember how lovely it felt to fall asleep in his arms! *Sigh*. I wonder what he feels about this? Does he feel sad he did that, or sad we didnt do it again? I guess he has led me a bit of a merry dance, staying overnight with me 4 times and inviting me along to things with friends as though we were an item.
Hey Abbey...thankyou again for your help, so appreciated. I'm struggling, as always with this detachment thing. I dont see why I'm not ready to take him back, I feel ready. I have changed, I have been to C for 8 months, I have lost my old fears that stopped me doing stuff (so I can thank him for that), I would be willing to work on the R and take it slow. But he doesnt want me! He wont meet me halfway, so then it feels like I should just throw the towel in. I dont think I need to make that decision anyway, he's made it for me..he's not contacted me again, 7th day in a row, the longest since February that he hasnt initiated contact.
I know I have to not contact him and wait for him to contact me about the lease. I thought we were in friendship mode though! We've talked so much over the past 6 months. I'm not so sure about settling in for the long term, as the contact has totally dropped off and that has to be for a reason.
It could be he's met someone. It could be his BMF told him to leave me be. It could be as I got too close and he sensed I was starting to expect things of him, or us to reconcile and he doesnt want to so has backed off on purpose to show me that? It could be his depression? It really made sense when you said:
Having to be "up" when you can't be... makes one feel like a failure.
as I think he is struggling since this work decision. I guess its easier to see mates and get drunk and pretend you're ok, than see me, who can see through him. I guess it would make him feel worse.
I also thought this was interesting that you said:
You're doing all the work right now ... STOP IT! Let him do some of the work... back off... let him get some self esteem and self discipline and contact you.
I agree, I guess I have been doing the work lately, although before, all the contact was initiated by him. Now I am worrying that it went on for too long with me letting him be, that I never confronted anything with him. Maybe I should have when I had the chance, now it feels too late !
I'm sure that this is it for us. It seems too deliberate that he didnt contact me, when he knew my BFF was leaving Friday. I have an answer machine message from the Friday before she came, where he let me know he was going out at 7.30..so was calling me early and asking me to catch him before he went out... And then this Friday, no reply to my email, no calling me to tell me where he is. Last Friday, he did phone (1st August) and I msised the call -I'm stupidly upset about that, I had no signal in Mousehole. I wonder why he called me, seeing as he was out with people. Its the last time he initiated contact and called me, and I missed it.
Feels symbolic somehow, falling on the eclipse like that.
Do they not say that usually the retreat "even more"... before they break cycle?
Mine was in friend mode too... and then stopped wearing his ring, told me he was seeing her, still lied about the affair etc. First portion friend mode is just broken up with no guns
As for not ready... you're reaching out and trying to "catch". Is this the kind of relationship you want to set as precedent? To constantly be wondering when the levy is going to break again, or he's going to go into one of his funks where you have to do all the work, or put your life on hold here and there while he gets his crap together? Right now, you're not able to break free, flick him off when he needs to be flicked off and just be ho-hum-ish when he peeps his head back out. You can't detach... you're not ready.
(Don't feel this is a bad thing either.... it seems to me that lots of us struggle with this whole detach thing every day.) Oh... and btw,... just when you think you've got this detached thing down pat... the little beggers toss you a bigger curve ball. *silly smile*
Relationships are a two way street. The "next step friend" thing is about setting the pace and "rules" for the relationship.... you really want to allow him to be this flakey... depression or not? Or would you rather when he's in a funk that he's upfront with you and has talked to you months and months on end before that point... on how you are going to work WITH him to get through it and NOT shut you out. No riding unicycle in this deal if it goes forward... you deserve better.
He's not ready to reach out and let you to be that best friend totally yet... and what's more, it would seem he's not ready to trust himself with being that vulnerable. You, you need more "you time". Need to be able to say: How do I help... without getting too emotionally hurt by his needs. How would you react right now if you asked him: Hey... which is best for you... "titt for tatt contact?... or do you want to do all the initiating?... how do you feel about me contacting you as much as I have etc." .... and his answer is: I want to do this at my pace you're contacting me too much. ??
Being upset, sleepless nights, needing to go numb with a bottle of wine, ADs, sleeping pills or whatever... is all part of this whole nut case merry-go-round we're on. The point I'm trying to make is that at the point you have those kinds of opened discussions ... you have to be able to give him hell and say...if he likes the two way... then for you to grab him by the collar and say: THEN SHOW ME SOME F'G RESPECT!!! I call you... don't leave me wondering for 7 days if you've flown off to Spain or drowned in the channel! Or be able to say ok... then we need to set rules that are respectful to both of us, ... or whatever.
It's about setting out bits and pieces of YOUR owners manual as the thing goes forward... put both of your stuff on the table for you both to share. Right now you're still catering to his owners manual. Right now... it's about treating you with respect, as he would ANY friend... both of you having to re-learn what's acceptable "between" the two of you in baby steps. Not relationship stuff... prelude to the relationship stuff etc.
*hugs*
Abbey
Oh... just a quickie added thought... regarding "prelude"... mine was considerate enough to get "two" boxes of junk food at the show the other night. The time before that, he walked away from me and barely treated me like he wanted to be there. PRELUDE stuff... He didn't ask me to move home or anything, but he DID contact me, knowing full well I had said I had wanted NO "outtings". He DID so sheepishly, but he DID it, he made that move. He treated me kindly, nicely and as though he wanted to be with me. To be perfectly honest... I don't expect he'll really go back to that mode for maybe 2 weeks... maybe a month or so before that peeps his head out. Prelude stuff... THIS respectful person is the one I wish to have contact with... the rude one from the time before can eat dirt.
The guy who's left you hanging for however many days... DON'T reward bad behavior. Be business like... let him earn your warmness.
*hugs*
Abbey
Hey, Ali Dear.
Hang in there. You have to keep moving forward w/ or w/out BF. I agree w/ the others that you can't overlook the little positives, but I understand how difficult it is to see the baby steps.
I too struggle w/ any baby steps as they don't seem to come fast enough or cover nearly enough ground. Hang on and keep fighting. Think of Churchill who said "if you are going through Hell, keep going." We all must go through the pain in order to get over the pain.
That part sucks, but it is so very accurate.
I'm sorry you are blue. I'm there too, but tomorrow is another day, correct? Let's both try to be better tomorrow than we were today, ok? Are you in w/ me?
RTL
Hi Rob, I'm sorry you arent feeling well on top of feeling down! It sucks, all of this. I am up early (6 am) as I feel so anxious and down, I think I'm going to have a tough week.
Hey there Abbey, I thought you were telling me to confront him about being more respectful, but I think you meant to aim for that. Its great that your H took you for food and wanted to meet with you! I guess I have had alot of that from my ex, he has been very respectful. He has done stuff to fix my bike, fetched me drinks and paid for food and driven way out of his way to collect me and thats why I was hoping we'd reunite - becuase we had alot of that prelude stuff as you called it. But its all come to nothing.
We are between the eclipses and then he stops contacting me. Its obvious which way this thing is going - he is letting go of me proper. I dont think its a case of let him fully retreat until he pokes back out...sometimes relationships just end. Despite my best efforts (I'm questioning that now) things never progressed, in all these months he has never once complimented me, flirted with me, expressed any regret or doubt. Its so wierd that we have been in daily contact and yet he has never said why, or how he's feeling.
Its also wierd that I havent said anything or confronted it either. I was too scared to? I was dilligently applying DB techniques? I was heeding all the advice of those who kept telling me, he has depression, dont prod or poke him he wont be able to take it? But is that really true?? Why didnt I ever say anything, especially when we were closer back in May/June? I am really regretting that now.
I got up as I feel sick, anxious. Its the first weeekend since 1 May that he hasnt contacted me in Cornwall on a weekend. When we last spoke (Tuesday) he sounded irritable and cross. I remember saying to him, sadly, it feels like I havent spoken to you for ages....to which he grumpily replied, well yeah I've been away and stuff havent I. I offered to bring the lease over to him to save him driving...but he said, oh no thats ok, we'll sort something out (he doesnt want me anywhere near his flat). I couldnt pin him down on when we'd meet, he said, I'm easy, I'll fit around you, but then told me to hang out with my BFF two days in a row, so I knew I wouldnt see him before the weekend. I said, well I didnt just want to meet up with you to get the lease signed.. but he ignored that and said about it not being urgent as we are only counter signing.
It was a shock that he didnt reply to my email on Friday. The last time he did that was back in March and then he phoned at 5pm to apologise. Even back in February he would email me late on a Friday to say "speak over the weekend" in his wierd shorthand, but this Friday, nothing. That speaks volumes to me.
So its not about him being in his cave, or retreating or seeing baby steps..its just that this wierd limbo of the past 6 months is coming to a culmination. He hasnt contacted me for a week, as opposed to wanting to meet up with me, then its obvious to me he has decided to stop seeing me. Everything I read predicted that this Lunar eclipse next weekend is the end of the road. Its a Full Moon, so will illuminate something hidden, or someones feelings. Unfortunately for me, he's a Leo, so for him its about breaking with the past and leaving a partner. I expect finally, some honest conversation next weekend.
Its horrible, like he's left me twice, or I have failed some kind of test.
you failed nothing Ali. You fought like a trooper for your relationship.
What I'm wondering is... could it be possible that he is avoiding you because he doesn't want to sign the lease? Maybe he'd like to live there once he is forced to move up country for his job? I know I may be way off base... but I too find it odd that he's not jumping at getting this lease thing fully executed.
as for some of the other things you said. yes, you could have had those conversations months ago... when he wasn't medicated and a huge mess (not that he's feeling any better yet).... but who's to say that the pressure at that time wouldn't have caused him to retreat... and then you wouldn't have had those wonderful opportunities to hang out with him and share a bed with him.
hang in there Ali... you can't read his mind. My suggestion for you is that when you decide enough is enough... that you do what you suggested to Kalni... and ask your BF all of the things you've been afraid to before.
continue to vent here to us Ali. we are here for you.
hugs,
W2G
Ali dear,
Please don't get down on yourself. Remember, all you can do is meet him 1/2 way. If you go farther than that to "get him back" you are doing his work for him and he'll leave again.
You haven't failed in the least. You should be proud for fighting for your relationship. You are doing everything in YOUR power you can and the rest is completely up to him.
You would have failed only if you never attempted to try.
I know how hard it is to give yourself credit for your hard work when things look so bleak. I'm sorry you are down, but you can try and control your outlook about your upcoming week.
Choose to make it a great week regardless of what happens. That is something you can control.
Take care and be strong. If you are going through Hell, keep going.
RTL
((((((((((((Ali)))))))))))))
Regrets are pointless. Don't have them. You have done everything you could to salvage your R. Now it's time to let your BF figure himself out.
Just keep being the best you can be and find your happy Ali! BF either will or won't respond to that. He either will or won't decide to come back - his choice and you have no control over that.
What GAL activities have you done in the last week? Have you done anything outside of work with the people you have met there? If not, plan something for this week.
You know we all have nothing but love for you Ali. Keep fighting the good fight if you have it in you but let go of what BF is or is not doing. Let him go and he just might come running back!
*hugs*... Ali... this is a long shot... have you gone COMPLETELY dark on him?
I mean considering his depression, it's something you're going to have to decide if you can do... but he's relied on you. You cut him off now or push back hard ... he'll feel the loss. Folks who get cut off their "drug" ... whether it's a real drug or attention, will usually try to seek it back... eventually.
I'm in a toss up as to what my opinion is about what's next for you. (Understandably, you living it makes it 1000 times harder to make the decisions no matter which way you go)...
I know with mine I had to go back at him hard. You might have to do the same. It'll kill you... and initially you'll feel like, that's it!!! F! it, it's over. (which if from reading here is any indication... this decision will usually go round in circles of yes and no in your head after the adrenaline rush of standing up for yourself wears off).... the real test for your feelings will be after you've pushed back hard. Some slam the door forever ... some even the scales, some get new resolve to try things different... some fall back into the patterns of old too.
FWIW, I do think that I was aiming for "both"... as a future thing, but also a NOW thing... it's not RIGHT for him to have left you hanging like this. This might be your version of my "resto" incident. It was a turning point for me,... might just be where you need to even the scales. (That's my take on it.) I think you may need to more "soft sell" your need for respect because of his depression... I'm not 100% sure of my own thoughts on that to be honest though.
Is it possible for you to *have* one of those stern but not condemning type of talks where you simply say: Hey... you know what... I'm not asking anything unreasonable by expecting you to be reciprocal in contact etc. If he's remorseful when it comes out... then soft sell it. If he gets all indignant, then you know you need to go dark in some version of distanced to dark grey to outright dark?? The trick will be how to put this to him without shooting yourself in the foot. If you're not sure... do nothing for the interim. That's usually my best line of defense these days. New options usually open up after a bit of time.
I don't know if anything I"m saying is helpful... just more I just want you to know I understand where you feel you're at... it's that damn cliff where you don't know if you jump ... what will happen. No easy answers at the moment.
*hugs*
Abbey
Just thinking about something... and although this isn’t a cure all,... what this last month or so has shown me... is that there’s something calming in what I’ve found by accepting that I don’t know how my sitch will all turn out. My hope went from ... and I hate to use the word desperation cuz it’s not totally accurate for how we here, but... my hope went from somewhere on that part of the spectrum to knowing what I want... and it’s *THAT*,... to which my spouse and I both must measure up to come back as a couple. I try to not use “if” references anymore regarding reconciling. I just try say he needs to deal with his path. I’m trying to drop the self doubt,...(it’s a struggle)... and instead just keep my eyes on the bullseye of what I want at the end of the tunnel. If I expect to lose,... then I may as well give up now... that much I know. I just had to accept that sometimes ya still lose even when you do all the right things. There’s something... freeing in that. Not happy... just freeing in a stupidly struggle free kind of way. *grin*
What my frame of mind isn’t... is a total cure for the longing, sadness, wishing, missing etc etc etc. All still there... sometimes painfully so, angrily so even at times... but the even out moments are more frequent and it allows me to not spin so far down the sink hole quite as often. I still cry, I still am thinking about the good times we had together, I’m still missing him like crazy and these memories of happy times between us popping out of the blue are sometimes killer moments for me.... BUT... Pushing back allowed me to take back some of my own self respect, my ability to try to climb out of that hole that I find myself in when I miss him like made... and got me back to a place where the scales feel a little more even and can survive without him... even when I really would rather be with him.
I’m sure that when someone looks at this from the outside,... they probably still think I’m being far too “easy” or nice to the H... but how this has to play out for he and I, is based on relationship history and what I think some of his complaints about the marriage are.
I’ve also given myself a break from all the marriage relationship books for a while. I’d read myself to death looking for that holy grail answer. (and I do have a whole book section that I still have to read)... BUT to be honest,... I’m exhausted by it all. I've done ENOUGH hard work for now. I've done ENOUGH relentlessly convicted DBing et al, for a while. I've got to take a bit of a side car seat for a bit and recharge my engines. *smile* Instead I’m taking tidbits of things I hear, here and there... in this forum... even my new comments about titt for tatt... I got from the tv show Numbers. This is stuff I knew from my previous career,... but had to have it presented to me when I was just watching a tv show for the pleasure of it. Suddenly the light bulb in my head went off in a way that I could use the technique and not be so emotionally invested in it. This btw, was a rerun of the show... yet the first time I saw it months ago, I have no recollection of the scene in which this t for t thing came from. Go figure.
Maybe Ali... what you just might need for yourself... is simply to take some of the pressure off yourself and recharge your engines... Those answers on how have to come as a “you specific” equation with answers coming in bits and pieces of everyone elses’ experiences and stuff even as silly as maybe a tv show plot perhaps.
Hope this helps.
*hugs*
Abbey
Dearest Ali,
I want to thank you so much for all your thoughtful observations in my situation... thank you so much for your posts.
I am so sorry you are having a rough time right now. The vibe I get from your posts is NOT that BF is done, just that he is struggling, struggling with getting himself around through his daily life, struggling with the job thing. If he retreats from you I really don't think it's because he doesn't care about you and want to spend time with you, it's because you can see the stuff that's going on in him that even he doesn't want to deal with.
Hold onto yourself, sweet A... I am pulling for you.
I read that you are thinking about a DB coach session, that sounds so exciting!!! I also really re-recommend "passionate marriage", I think it could give you some new tools for dealing with your situation...
((((ALI))))))
LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVE
T
Hey Where, nice to hear from you! No, he was happy to sign the lease, he said "Brilliant!" when I told him about it. He doesnt want to live there as its an hour from his job and he hates the motorway commute.
I did try and say something in March and I cried and he reacted badly with an "Oh Al! I've got depression I cant handle anything..." and I think I cried again when I was ill in April and he ran off without me speaking, I cried one other time (May?) when he said goodbye at the door.. he took my hand and squeezed it, but still ran off and then outside his brothers (June?) I asked him to come in and he said No and I cried then and he hugged me tight but seemed shocked that I was upset, then said he just wanted to be on his own and left. So, yep. Wouldnt have got me anywhere, you are right ! Thanks for being here for me.
Rob - Thanks for being here, there is not much to smile about in your own sitch, so I appreciate your kindness here. I wonder when this hell is going to end? I feel as though I cant take much more.
Mishka - Thank you again for your kind words. I just dont believe that if you let them go, they will come back. I let one go when I was 22 who I had been madly in love with. He went on to marry someone else. SOmetimes things DONT come back, especially as we are under the cosh of these eclipses and it all feels so...horrible, impossible, theres nothing to work with. I have tried and tried and maybe I shouldnt have tried, maybe I should have just been myself, or spoke up, been REAL, or honest? Where has it got me, DBing? I am still miserable and lonely. I have tried to Gal all year, but I am just so broken hearted, its not possible. That IS putting too much pressure on myself - to go out and make new friends and enjoy things when I feel like I have suffered a terrible shock and a huge loss, like a death.
Hi Abbey...interesting thoughts as usual...no never gone dark. I havent contacted him since Friday night, which on a weekend, for me and us, well its not happened before since this all began. I am not sure I am his "drug" but I suppose there is an element of him leaning on me..it felt like that in June. He was phoning me alot to talk about himself. The convo we had Tuesday was all
about him, although I do deflect questions, so hard to tell.
I think its terrible that he hasnt responded to me since Wednesday, its clearly very pointed. Maybe he has met someone else this week, or yes, maybe he feels very low...but to not even send me a text? I phoned him Friday night sounding concerned and said call me, or just text me to let me know you are ok, and he hasnt bothered. I am astounded at his cruelty. He has talked to me for 5 months about his depression and I have worried about him and he obviously has no idea how stressful that has been for me, else he would have contacted me.
I'm rereading your words and have so far not contacted him again, but its soooo hard not to pick up the phone to him. It makes me realise how badly I cant live without him, and yet I am going to have to. Looks like he has made the decision to let go of me, like he hadnt quite been able to the past 6 months.
I guess I was hoping he would come back and then we could just get on with the business of being a couple, but yes, we have both changed, but not in ways that make an R no longer viable. I could see only positives.. he has lost his people pleasing thing and I have lost my need to control myself and we could have met in the middle.
I honestly dont know what the answer is. Its like I can barely function lately, I drag myself through the day.. I make myself shop, eat, work (barely), see people (barely again). Maybe I will bite the bullet and go to the doctor. I am eligible for more free C, which starts this week.. but even that fills me with dread, what can she say that will mend my broken heart?
Hi Al,
I've been reading and wondering what to say.....
I have tried and tried and maybe I shouldnt have tried, maybe I should have just been myself, or spoke up, been REAL, or honest? Where has it got me, DBing? I am still miserable and lonely. I have tried to Gal all year, but I am just so broken hearted, its not possible. That IS putting too much pressure on myself - to go out and make new friends and enjoy things when I feel like I have suffered a terrible shock and a huge loss, like a death.
Do you really think you should have tried?
Do you want to speak up and be honest? You know your situation best.
If you honestly feel it's over and there's nothing else you can do, you can walk away- you don't need to keep doing anything you don't want to do.
Only you know what action to take; only you have been speaking to BF and getting insight into his state of mind.
If you decide to continue to fight, decide to do it. Make a decision to do it, review your options and choose an action. You need to stop letting your actions be dictated by his. You need to decide on your strategy and then try it. If your actions yield positive results, carry on with them. If they don't, change them.
It's not over until YOU decide it is.
L. xx
T - Thank you also for your kind words! I thikn you are right, he IS struggling, this work decision and the prospect of being forced to move back near home has probably really done his head in. BUT... he also doesnt want to see me. So I cant keep excusing this, he is capable of making choices for himself. He chose to spend the last 3 weekends drinking and socialising with friends. He has a full and active life. I am nowhere on his radar these past 3 weeks. I have to face facts...and this is what is hurting so much.. I weep every day because I miss the man I was in love with. And where is he? Nowhere.
It cant JUST be because he feels low and depressed and is struggling, its also that he doesnt have those feelings for me, he has lost his attachment to me?
Hey Lisa! I'm not sure I understand? If someone doesnt reply to your email, or phone message, or contacts you at all.. its over? I cant decide it, he's decided it !? He's never met me halfway. I can do no more?
I said all along that as long as he hadnt met anyone, I would stick with it. My Mum asked me today how much longer I would wait and I said, another year. So on that basis, unless he tells me he has met someone, I could keep going. But, I feel so hurt and angry that he has ignored me this weekend. Its the first time he has ignored a message since he got back in touch in February (he did it alot Bomb - Christmas). So its bringing up that rejection stuff as he was so good at initiaiting contact this year, phoning me most nights at one point, I did get spoilt, didnt I?
I can only assume he has been drinking Friday night - last night and so is very tired and hungover today. Thats still no reason to ignore me. I guess I got the wrong end of the stick this past 6 months.. he wasnt coming back to me, he was just in limbo himself, not able to let go.
I'm at a loss Lisa, what are my options? What options do I have? You got any ideas!? I havent called him today/tonight, but its been SO hard not to.
Hi Ali,
Just because someone doesn't respond to your e-mails or calls doesn't mean it's over. It could mean he's thinking, is hungover, is depressed, is ashamed or any one of a number of things. You know that. You're ASS-U-MEing it means it's over, but you don't KNOW that. If you're DBing, you know that ASS-U-MEing is against the rules. So stop doing it.
If you're carrying on for another year, do it. Stp putting yourself through this rollercoaster every couple of days where you're happy if he's in touch and miserable if he's not. At the moment your happiness is dependent on his actions. It shouldn't be, and he won't make any moves back to you until it isn't.
Your options: so far, you've responded to what he's done. he contacts you, you contact him back. Other things you can try:
1. more contact (without expectation of a response, or asking for a response)
2. less contact- back off and go dim or dark. Consistently don't return his calls
3. setting boundaries- rules for the communication
4. a 180- act AS IF you couldn't give a toss about what he's doing or not doing
5. Call a DB Coach and ask their opinion
6. Treat him as if he's still your BF- jump on him and give him a big French kiss, flirt openly without worrying about how he thinks you look
7. be mysterious- speak to him as you do but drop hints about other exciting things you're doing that are nothing to do with him
I could probably think of others, ubt I'm sure the others will have more to add!
My DB Coach told me that as long I felt hurt or angry by H's actions (or lack thereof), I was still not yet in stage 2. She told me to focus on letting go of hurt/anger, and I think she'd tell you to do the same....
Good job on not calling him. It's not been working, so don't do it.
Thankyou for the validation on not calling him! I am sat here second guessing myself, but its 8.30 now, so its kind of as late as I would/could or he would have. So yep, ignored me for another day. He probably has no idea how much this has upset me. I have been in bits since 6am today.
Thanks for your list! I would like the call the DB coach, but it seems so expensive and it may already be too late judging by whats happened since last weekend (1 August eclipse, was the last time he phoned me). If anyone remembers my eclipse ramblings, I kept saying I will find out then, and we are between eclipses.
I cant believe how angry I feel. People were amazed after the bomb for months that I wasnt angry at him, but I felt nothing but compassion and forgiveness. Today, I feel so angry, how could he do this to me a 2nd time? I think its becuase he has been confiding in me so much and asking me over and over to meet up, usually fairly last minute and then this is how he treats me? I know thats wrong though, you should be selfless, you dont just give to receive, so I cant expect him to give back in equal measure. It was my choice to be there for him, he didnt ask me to. Interesting you say that means we are not in stage 2?
I can ASSUME that he will email me about the lease (although he is very forgetful), so I will continue to wait. I emailed him Friday and he didnt reply, so I guess the ball is in his court?
Hi Ali, I,m glad you are feeling a little angry. My C told me that is healthy and would start the healing process and help with gal.
Too much is a bad thing but we are human and feelings need to come out. They (feelings) also go in stages and helps on the journey to wholeness.
Stay strong. Doing anything nice just for you this week?
I just remembered - our phone convo Tuesday was awkward and I said alot of things I dont normally..I was a bit clingy and pointing out I hadnt heard from him. When he told me he was going to this beach festival this weekend, I didnt say "Great!" as a friend would... I said, "Oh, I would have liked to have gone to that" in a sad voice and he shot back "I dont think there are any tickets left".
So he KNOWS I wanted to see him and would have loved to have met up with him. He normally (since February) sees me on the weekend when he's here, apart from ONE, in May and the one his Mum was here. So this is the first weekend since this whole thing started in Feb that he has avoided me.
Essentially, I dont believe in myself enough. I need to turn this around. I feel like the loser, or a loser, because he left me. But as my Mum said, I am a good person and he is being very selfish and maybe he always did do what was best for him. He will be the loser in the long run. Its hard to believe as what he did has shattered my confidence and I imagine him with some amazing new woman anytime now. But then I know he has alot of issues to conquer, so she will be getting all that sometime down the line, like I did.
Hey Naej! Thats a good way to look at it.. getting angry starts the healing process. Thank you for that.
Essentially, I dont believe in myself enough.
But Ali, that's part of our processes, isn't it. Only you can decided when it's enough or you want to go on. But Lisa mentioned something to me that is very helpful... going through the stages... you at some point have to set boundaries for yourself.
Where and what they are, only you can answer. I like that you didn't contact him too. Frankly ... yes... the balls in his court. And yes,... you're going to teeter from screw him to... I miss him. All stuff that we go through.
Depression is something at some point, he has to OWN. You have to begin to then own your limits to what you'll put up with, and what you won't. Of course you want to be there, but not as a door mat.
What do you think you'll say when he contacts you? Have you considered how you'll act? Cool and reserved might be a mode to think about.
*Hugs*
Abbey
Thanks Abbey! So, I didnt contact him. I made it through another day. I'm so angry still (mild really, hey, I'm a piscean, we dont do anger! Just tears), that I dont even want to phone him.
I just have been reading back on some posts from 30th May, when he insisted I got into bed and then started an R talk.. 2nd May when he invited himself over to fix my bike..some others from around that time. Wow, I forgot some of those things he said, about not knowing himself and how he bottles things up and is full of anxiety. I guess that stuff hasnt gone away.
What will I say? Good point, I dont know! I assume he may email me. I guess my plan is to not contact him, which will be hard... we could go all week with no contact, which would be horrible. I was hoping to see him Wednesday, as he is in town for football. I'm not sure I can manage cool and reserved though! I cant believe I find myself in a place where I dont even know IF he will contact me, neverlone when.
I'm SO sorry to everyone else for not posting much to you, I just cant find the words.
Ali,
Of course you are angry - you are the only one doing the work to save your relationship. The advice on DBing is excellent and if you follow along, you'll see results. Remember that if something you are trying isn't working, then it is time to try something different.
You said:
I wonder when this hell is going to end? I feel as though I cant take much more.
I feel the same way. I wish I had a time table to tell me when this would wrap up, but of course I don't. I guess we'll all know when we've had enough. Our friends here have given us examples of when enough is enough and it becomes time to let it all go and move on. You'll know when you can't take any more. We all will.
For now, hang in there and work on detaching your feelings from his actions.
RTL
(((Ali)))
Sorry I wasn't around this weekend.
BUT ((((((BIG HUGS)))))))
Still feeling really churned up. Lunchtime and no email from him. Incredible, he has totally stopped contacting me. Maybe he has met someone. I last heard from him Wednesday when he said he was going for a drink with this guy James from his office, who he has been meeting up with more and more and raves about.. A girl in my office lives in the trendy village where he went out, she told me today this James drinks in her local and she knows him and says he is a great guy and he ended it with his gf of 10 years, 8 months ago!
Huh. No wonder they are mates, bet they have loads in common. I hate the thought of my ex (34) going out for drinks with another guy (33) who both dumped their longterm GFs. Made me feel sick. Lucky them hey for being in the driving seat? This girl in my office was dumped by her partner of 10 years too last October, becuase he was withdrawn and had depression for the past 2 years!!! Wierd, so much of it about.
Why do I so want my ex back? Why cant I be like her, or this James, or my ex and just move on to the next phase of my life and not cry every day? I hate feeling so disempowered and heartbroken. I hate what he's done to me, to dump me after so many years with no warning or discussion, before, during or since. I have this enormous need to "have it out with him", I cant Db anymore. Its got me nowhere and I am normally a heart-on-my-sleeve person, so its ridiculous that I have kept my feelings in for so long. Its becuase he has had ultimate power, calling the shots and he hasnt allowed me to express any emotions as he is too scared to express his own.
I'm still not going to contact him though I guess.
*hugs*
Ali,... just remember that this process they go through has them all over the map. I'm a piscean too. I know what you feel about your heart on your sleeve. Just... fight the feelings to go off on him, it's a back slide and undoes stuff you have done so far.
You mention power... frankly, thats why detaching is part of this parcel. Because they have too much power over us, our emotions, putting our lives on hold etc.
Wait this out.
*hugs*
Abbey
Wow Abbey...I so nearly asked you yesterday if you were a Piscean!! When were you born?
I'm not so sure this process he is going through will lead him back in a curve to me one day...thats not how eclipses work. The door slams shut on an eclipse and never reopens. So what difference does it make in the long run how I behave? What will be will be. Eclipses remove something from your life to make way for the new, whether you want it or not. He told me he thought it was over on the Lunar eclipse and first moved out on the solar eclipse. He has been moving further away from me since mid July.
I was hoping to see him Wednesday evening. Another friend in the office has just invited me out for an early drink on Wednesday with her and a guy she thinks I will get on famously with (but as a mate, as he is only 26) who is dying to meet me as he wants to learn all about astrology! So thats funny.
I think you are right about it being a backslide. I may still end up telling him how I feel, if he ever gets in touch. SOOOO tempted to email him. I shouldnt, should I?
It makes a difference how you behave because of how it makes you feel about yourself.
Don't be the crazy ex-gf. Be the better person.
If you need to move on, then do it.
If you need to never contact him again to move on, then do it.
Take care of yourself. Do what you need to do.
((((((Ali)))))))
Hey Michelle, I think I have been the better person so far, alot of people say they would have ripped his head off, or worse! I wasnt intending to be some psychotic ex, just have a more open convo with him one day!
So..he emailed me at 4.30. It was hard to know how to reply, I kept it cool, then at the last sentence I said "I'm sorry you're still so tired, shattered even. If theres anything I can do to help, like cook you dinner one night or anything just say" which isnt playing it cool and I NEVER say anything like that to him, but if we are not getting back together, then we are just friends and thats exactly what I would say to a mate.
So here it is. He's explaining why he didnt reply to my email Friday I guess. Note he's reverted to that impersonal tone/lack of capitalisation etc. To me he sounds down/low and slightly *rsey and keeping it brief but also letting me know he's not around this evening. Thoughts anyone?
Hiya,
glad you had a good time with BFF - shame shes gone now. hope there wasn't any more parent grief. was off on friday - james at work got a ticket for the music thing for friday so got a day off late notice. was good but saturday was awful, total washout, completely soaked and freezing and miserable. still feeling a bit ill from it all, can't believe the weather.
don't worry about checking the mortgage and stuff, i should do it - will check my bank later to see if i can work it out, still confused by it all.
feeling absolutely shattered - no change there then. playing golf later so hopefully will knacker me out.
Hope you're OK,
me
(((((((Ali))))))))))
I know I sound like a broken record but I'm very concerned for you. DETACH DETACH DETACH DETACH DETACH!!!!
You can be his friend without being attached to him and being affected by everything he does or does not do or say. I understand your pain completely. I have lost a 15 year marriage because of my H's actions and decisions. I have no control over it. I have no regrets any longer about the years we spent together but he has chosen his path and I have to make my own now. Do I want to? NO! I want my H to want our M and our family but it isn't going to happen, at least not right now. Does that mean that my life has to stop and be stagnant while I wait and hope for movement from him? NO!
The same applies to you sweet Ali. The only way to move through the pain is to start forcing yourself out of your comfort zone. Force yourself to be with new people. Stoke the fires of new friendships and have new experiences. It's the only way I know of to heal yourself.
His comments about being confused by the mortgage are interesting. What is he confused by? And why does he feel shattered?
Hey Mishka!
Well, things have been less dramatic for me, theres been no OW and he has contacted me an awful lot over the past 6 months, spent lots of time with me, even stayed overnight 4 times. Ok, so its all platonic but he has made it hard to move forward. The bit about being with new people, unfortunately I have always been rather introverted, so the amount I am seeing people and making new friends is actually pretty good for me! I'm going for a drink with a new friend Wednesday and meeting a friend of hers. Its just a slow process!
He's confused because we have a number of mortgages and payments going in and out and he never set up any proper arrangements (or even mentioned it!) since he left me, so it is a tangled web. He's so shattered because he was probably drinking Friday daytime through to Sunday, again. And because he's depressed.
I'm actually getting a bit tired of hearing that he is tired. He's tired because he's drinking alot on ADs, which compound tiredness and he cant sleep becuase he's depressed, yet he's not doing enough to tackle that.
I will have to make a new life and meet new people anyway as its glaringly obvious he's not coming back ! Ok, so he makes alot of excuses in his email, but he wasnt on the moon, he could have called or texted to say hi, like he has been doing this past 6 months, but he chose not to. Says it all really.
Whether or not he is coming back, you need to make a new life and meet new people. For yourself.
Stop making everything about him. Be selfish. Tackle your goals in life like he isn't coming back.
But as a couple we had SO many friends, as he has so many, what with my own as well, I had a full social life before, too much in fact. And then I had my career, and my dreams and my hobbies, so it was all good. Him leaving has left a gaping hole in my life, but thats to be expected after 9 years together.
I'm not yet at the point of being selfish and grabbing a new life, I spent much of the weekend sobbing! I'm going through a grieving process, its been really tough. I dont have any long range goals right now, I cant see further than about 2 weeks ahead. I used to have plenty (own property, become a web developer, study Fine Art, have a family etc) and I'm proud of myself for achieving most of those.
I'm starting C again this week because I feel so low. I'll get there, I know I will, but right now, I have Uranus on my Sun, Saturn squaring my Sun, Pluto directly on my Mars, squaring my Sun...those are major, malefic, hard, not nice, once in a lifetime transits which are making my life hell. I know that, on an intellectual level, but it feels awful. I feel like I am stuck in a vice with someone jabbing me with hot pokers most days!
I'm still debating being honest if I see him this week. The window of opportunity is closing.. hes backed off, hes not phoning me in the evenings anymore (sad, but thats stopped) and he's moving away soon.
I am glad you have C this week. I hope it helps you feel better.
I know we keep saying it, but this whole situation is having too much effect on the rest of your life.
I'm not yet at the point of being selfish and grabbing a new life, I spent much of the weekend sobbing! I'm going through a grieving process, its been really tough. I dont have any long range goals right now, I cant see further than about 2 weeks ahead.
So get selfish, grab a new life. This does not mean there wouldn't be room for him in it later if he ever pulled his head out of his a$$, kicked his depression, and realized how silly he's been. But don't put stuff on hold anymore! Make some new goals, keep making friends, and keep putting one foot in front of the other.
You are making friends, have some job offers, have your artwork and other stuff. But you are letting this situation hold you down.
(((((((((Ali)))))))))
Michelle nailed it on that one! Grab a new life! That might or might not involve a different man for the time being, it doesn't have too. But, it needs to involve you, living without him. Keep moving forward. He can still come along, but you don't have to wait for him, and lose yourself!
It's time for Ali to FLY!
I'm imagining Ali with wings!!!!! That's awesome!!!
Ok, 2x4 time, done out of love only of course.
Ali, you said he made plenty of excuses for not calling this weekend. You are making plenty of excuses for not getting a new life on your own. STOP! I understand being an introvert. I really am too. It's easier than putting yourself out there for rejection and criticism but I have seen your personality shine through and I know you are an extremely interesting person. You would be so much fun to hang out with and get to know! Believe in yourself Ali and get out there.
You said that you had a very active social life with BF. Where are those friends? Have they abandoned you or do they live up country?
I'm glad you are going to C. You need to pour your feelings out to a professional that can give you some perspective and help you develop a plan. They can also help you to see slightly beyond 2 weeks. I have been on that 2 week plan for a while now but am finding that I need to look further ahead now. I wasn't ready to do that though until just about a week ago.
You'll get through this Ali. We'll all help you however we can. You know you can always come here with your honest feelings and we will not judge you, only try to lift you up.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((Ali)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Wow Ali you have so many friends here that care about you (me included). I cant add anything more to the wisdom shared. Just stopping by to give you a big hug. You are going to have a fantastic life, and you are a wonderful person. BF is crazy to miss out on sharing your life. Hope you have a better day today.
Thankyou girls! And Jeff! I feel undeserving to be honest Essie (another one for the C!)
I had a thought earlier (before I read your posts) that it IS sort of crazy that he dumped me, as I am a great catch and a nice person and we are SO compatible and really loved each other before he decided to destroy our R. I guess he meant it when he said he was "mental" and "crazy in the head". And Mishka, lots of those people were 'his' friends and apart from his BMF W, I havent seen any of them in my own right and am unlikely to ever again, which makes me sad.
I've been doing alot of reading, which I will share with you ! Eclipses are like Pluto transits (which last years) in a burst of a few months. Pluto transits anihilate what was there. Its like the volcano erupting and destroying the land, or an atomic bomb, or any process thats destructive. But from that you get new life, more fertile ground, you have to hit rock bottom before you truly go up, its transformation, death and rebirth, phoenix from the ashes stuff. It feels traumatic and frightening at the time and for a while you're like a new born lamb on shaky legs needing your 'mother', but then you find your feet...
So I KNOW I will be ok (although this isnt the first time this has happened, so I'm getting weary of this, I know people who've had settled times all their adult lives! Hmmph!)..you just cant press the fast forward button. And because I had an eclipse crash land exact on my Sun at 18' Pisces last September, I'm still feeling the seismic shock of that on my very sense of self and identity, who I am and where I am going.
That is fascinating Ali. I do believe there is an energy in the universe that can affect the way things in our lives occur. Of course, it's how we choose to react to those things that makes the real difference, right?
You're a beautiful soul Ali, truly. I would love to learn more about all of this Astrology stuff. Of course, my mother would have a heart attack and my pastor would faint dead away!
I don't see the harm in learning about other forces of the universe though.
Go for it Mishka! I dont understand it at all...I am debating again teaching astrology classes and I looked into rooms to hire yesterday. Can I do it? Can I be bothered to do it!? I guess a little part of me CAN see further than 2 weeks ahead, but only in a peeking way. I really have lost my long range vision.
In other reading...I have the Moon in the 7th, meaning I get my Moon stuff, nurturing and "mothering" through my partner (my Mum has the Moon in the 10th - career, and she said she could never separate her emotions from her work, natch). My ex also has a 7th house Moon, so he is the same as me. Breaking from me is all about breaking away from and rebelling against the "mother", because she is the one that made him so f'd up. Wierd then that he now speaks to her every day when he rarely spoke to her in our 9 years together. I guess he is putting his energy into healing the R with his Mum as they didnt have one following her acrimonious D and he went to live with his Dad at 16.
It made me realise I need to work on healing my R with my Mum too. We are close and speak nearly daily, but she has a very tough love, conditional type R with me and my sister and did not behave in a typical motherly way - one example, I have no memory of my Mum reading me bedtime stories...so I asked her why not and she laughed and said she taught us to read at 3 (she did) so we could read ourselves a story so she didnt have to bother doing it! Now, thats bad. But then, I had a reading age of 15 by age 7, which is a good thing, which I thank her for.
Hi Al,
You're sounding so much more positive in the recent posts today. Are you feeling it? I love the idea of you teaching astrology classes- you're so great at it, I can only imagine the class being packed out!
On the BF front, I agree- his e-mail sounds like he needs some cave/withdrawal time. I think he needs to be left alone for a while, for whatever reason, but the fact he e-mailed you is still good. He's explaining his absence, which means he's thining of you.
Are you still thinking of speaking to him? I was thinking about that today, and in one sense I'm wondering whether it'd be an experiment in doing something different. After all, being friendly has gotten you so far, and MWD does say that the same technique doesn't always work, so you could experiment with speaking to him more openly. if it doesn't work, you can always change back. Just a thought. I'm in a DB experimentation phase at the moment. Of course, in the end you know what's best for your sitch......
L. xx
Ali ... *hugs*... your fellow fishie here. (Mar 19)
Michelle told you to follow your instincts... that's sometimes the best you can hope to do when you're faced with a damned if you do... damned if you don't.
I had something similar and had to break dark. I really wasn't sure how that would "be" in the grander scale of things... it's worked out... so far. Even showed me some of his "being a teenager" side today. (One Day.. I'm sure I owe you and your DB councilor money
What I got from his note was more just the D being in a hold pattern. He mentioned wanting to be knackered. Sounds like he's having trouble sleeping, is he? Might explain the booze a little better. ADs can screw with your sleeping patterns if you don't hit both nails on the head. I'm on ADs PLUS sleeping aids. Wouldn't be able to do one without the other. Might just be he's self medicating to "escape" through sleep.
Now... advice about taking care you you. Yep... couple of folks are giving you a shake... and well they should. Detach ... only way to survive this. I was afraid if I did at first, I'd end up hating my H, or just not caring anymore etc. (Are you afraid of detaching for some reason?) You don't have to leave the planet to keep sane. Just get a little fire retardant on your jeans, you know what we're saying?
Might also talk about a low dose of ADs to get you through for a couple of months... just something to take the edge off. Frankly,... I fought the AD route. If ya need a little "help"... use what's out there, talk to your C about this. FWIW, I still cry, I still get disappointed, I still get hopeful... It just even outs some of the highs and lows so that you don't bounce round like a pingpong ball at his whim. Just think about it... might be what you need to give you back some of "you". Depression between spouses can be somewhat contagious... you're on his roller coaster...
*hugs*
Abbey
Hey Abbey! You're a bit later than me then, but you are having a triple Uranus transit on your Sun (once every 84 years, so pretty big news!)..its behind your sun right now in backward motion and will move forwards in November and start heading back toward and over your Sun next year.. so changes are still on the horizon, for you and for me. This coasters still rolling !
Yes, I read about that - transference of depression to the spouse (although I am an ex now, so I shouldnt be catching anything off him!). I have thought about going to the docs and getting diagnosed as depressed lots of times since Christmas, I still go up and down and I'm sure he would say I was, but I dont want it on my notes if I can avoid it. And I would resist taking anything unless I really had to, but would if I needed to. I resolved to go to the docs today, after my weekend, but being at work picked me up a bit. But, twice I had to go hide in a dark hole at work under the stairwell to get some peace and be still and sad.. and then went back to my desk. God I'm such a wierdo! :-) I 'm not normally like this!
His main problem is lack of sleep..he finds it hard to fall asleep and then he usually wakes in the night and cant get back to sleep. He lies there for ages wide awake. When I asked whats keeping him awake he wouldnt tell me, I asked what he thinks about when he wakes in the night he said nothing. Do you think he is fibbing !?? Hes talked about getting anxious alot, but its not noticeable, he hides it.
He had trouble sleeping before he went on ADs and it seems to be worse. He went to the docs last week about it I think, but so far he hasnt taken sleeping pills. He is more tired when he drinks and he knows this (you dont sleep deeply when drunk). I told him the tablets amplify the tiredness, especially on booze and he seemed surprised, but clearly hasnt stopped drinking since I told him that.
The detaching thing.. its not that I dont want to, I honestly dont GET IT! What is it? What does it look/feel like? I must have a banana for a brain becuase its just not sinking in. I've asked before on my thread for helpful posts about it. I think I will go to bed, dust off my DB books and see if theres a chapter on it.
I don't know how to explain it exactly Ali. I used to think of it as giving up hope but it's not. It's more like releasing yourself from the drama.
I stopped basing my feelings on how he would or might react to them. I stopped wanting to talk to him all the time. I don't even think about him most of the day. It's pretty nice. I have better things to think about now. My new friends, my son, my future, being totally independent! It's really nice once you get there.
I can't say that every day is like this. Reality still hits me about every two or three days but at least it's not every two or three minutes anymore!!!!
(((Ali)))
Mishka's got the detachment about right. It's hard to describe because it's about YOU and your feelings, so it's personal.
I hope you get a good nights sleep!
Thankyou! Just sounds to me like "its over", detachment, and when it is over for me, when I'm done, thats it, I have already swam off. Guess I'm not there yet! I did reread a bit about detaching from the depressed spouse in DB, but I think it was aimed at couples who are still "together", as much of the book is.
So...wow, my stars this week are mega, and they read true for me (not all sun columns do) as my own chart is the 'right way round' - as in, I DO have these planets in my relationship house right now.
Weekly Love Scope commencing 11 August 2008
This is without a doubt, the most important relationship week, not of the year or even of the decade, but of the century. It was Venus' arrival into your relationship sector last week that saw the planet of love join forces with Mars and Saturn in your relationship sector, for the first time since 1921. However, it was Mercury, planet of communication's arrival into your relationship sector over the weekend that gives an already powerful line up of cosmic support, creating a team that your relationship sector hasn't seen since the 19th Century. Saturn and Venus align on Thursday for only the second time in 3 decades, with Mercury and Saturn aligning on Saturday, for the first time in your relationship sector since 1980. When so much is on offer, a lot more is also expected of you.
..I was hoping to see him this week to sign this lease...and I was hoping to see him this weekend, on the lunar eclipse. I havent seen him for the past 3 weekends so this is it, a real test.
The eclipse on Saturday hits our Sun/Moon conjunction in Leo, but by opposition. The last time there was an eclipse there was February 16th 1999. Its said that whatever started then, will end now. February 13th 1999 was our first kiss and when we started seeing each other. It was the date we used for our anniversary. Back then, an eclipse hit our Sun/Moon, but on the other side of the chart, by conjunction. What will happen...?
Ali,... that's the point though, I talked to my T about this and she asked me... why are you afraid of "not trying" for a while? Same answers... if I stop trying, I'll just not care anymore. Detachment isn't about not caring, it's about bring some balance back to this insanity. There are times I'm really glad I don't have to hear from him. IT's peace.
It also gives you some time off to not try to predict what every thing he says, does etc means.
And yes, while I too noticed the "togetherness" aspect of the DB book... backing off from him, giving him the job of being 50% of this,... IS part of other books we've read. Marriage Fitness, Dr Harley's books etc takes DB in a direction for those of us who have separated.
You have to be excited about you. Clearly right now, you're not. GET TO THE DOC! You not wanting the "stigma" isn't a good enough reason. You said: I'm not normally like this. That in itself says a mouthful. GOOOOOO to the docs, see what they have to say
The lack of sleep thing with your BF, and what he's thinking about or not thinking about... can often be a mashed potato catch all of things. He hasn't made sense of it, don't despair that he can't relay what it is that's got him up in the middle of the night. The ADs sometimes (depending on the brand)... can either make you sleepy or cause trouble sleeping. Unless and until he gets off the booze though, I can't imagine a doc willingly is going to give him sleeping pills to add to this cycle-toxic cocktail of ads and booze.
*hugs*
Abbey
Hey Abbey,
I dont think he wanted to take sleeping pills anyway, and he knows he shouldnt drink, but still does, so thats his choice. Thanks for saying about not being able to verbalise what keeps him awake, good point.
No email again yet today. I almost cant believe this. Bam, 1st August, on the eclipse was the last time he phoned me, after months of him calling me most nights. I really did get used to it. What am I supposed to think, what am I supposed to do? The temptation to email him is huge. But I havent and its 3.30pm now.
Its horrible. When he first ended it, I was unbelieving and thought he'd come back within a few weeks, by Christmas he clearly wasnt and then went NC all of January, I was distraught. When he got back in touch in February, I was elated...then the contact steadily grew and I started to feel hopeful. Then the phonecalls started and I grew in confidence, but then it never progressed any further than that. I cant believe he did that, kept up such regular contact to then just drop me again.
Am not feeling good and have no idea what to do now. Dont know what to think.
((((((((Ali)))))))))
I have no words to help explain his behaviour.. I'm just sorry that you are struggling right now. I hope your C appt helps lift you some.
About you, are you still looking for other work while you are currently employed?? And what happens when school starts again? And when is that?
Hugs,
W2G
Hey Where, thankyou.
Jobs? I am sticking here for now, waiting to hear abuot moving onto the programming side. As for college - starts back 2nd Oct I think and I have no idea what I'm going to do about that !
I just feel so regretful that I never ASKED him a few months back. I regret I never asked him back in January, when he collected his stuff, why he was crying! Instead I just said, yes, you are finding it hard arent you. Like some kind of DB robot. I regret never telling him in March that I knew from a friend he was having doubts. I wish I had asked him why he wanted me to stay the night with him those times he asked me to. I wish I had asked him, when he said he was scared, what was he scared of? Maybe I got DBing wrong, I was so obsessed with following it to the letter, that whenever he said anything, all I would do is listen and validate and ask no questions and I NEVER answered if he asked me "are you ok?". Now he has stopped asking.
I know it wouldnt have changed the outcome, but I wouldnt have had months of not knowing and wouldnt look back and have no idea what the hell was going on or if I missed an opportunity. If you open up to someone, they open up back, but I never did. Its clear to me now that it was over all along, it was just a process of letting go of me, that he seems to have come to the end of. Meanwhile, I have hung around in false hope and hadnt even begun the process of getting over him, so this is very hard on me.
I think if he doesnt email me today, I will phone him tonight. The letting agent has been emailing me asking me where the lease is, so although its not mega urgent, we need to sign and return it this week, so I have a reason to call him. He should contact me about it, but he clearly isnt going to.
Maybe I got DBing wrong, I was so obsessed with following it to the letter, that whenever he said anything, all I would do is listen and validate and ask no questions and I NEVER answered if he asked me "are you ok?". Now he has stopped asking.
If you want to change things up because you feel they aren't working, that's up to you. But you have done great at listening, validating, and putting very little pressure on him.
If you open up to someone, they open up back, but I never did.
Maybe you haven't dumped your whole life into his lap, but you have certainly been pretty open with him about everything except your hope to have a new R with him (and even there, I think he knows that). There are a lot of other things at work here, like his very serious depression. There is only so much you can do.
Take care of the financial stuff.
Other than that, focus on you. Figure out what you are going to do about school and your art. And just deal with that. You have a lot going on without taking on someone elses problems and issues.
(((Ali)))
Dearest Ali,
I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling this. I want to give you a huge real life hug!!!! Can we hug our computer monitors instead and imagine that a real hug is occuring??
Thank you also SO MUCH for helping me out on my thread when you are having hard times, it means so much!!!
I am not sure what to say, you have gotten so much advice from others. I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and beaming you rays of hopeful loving joy from my side of the atlantic to yours.
I know that reading another R book might be the last thing you want to do right now, but have you gotten passionate marriage yet???
I am wondering if BF is distancing himself from you not becuase he doesn't care but becasue he cares so much?
Here is a little tidbit, could this apply to your BF?
"Differentiation is the ability to stay in connection without being consumed by the other person....Lack of differentiation alienates us from those we love. Emotional fusion deceives us into thinking that we're not connected and we move away in defense. But the deeper truth is that we have to move away to counterbalance the *tremendous impact* we feel our spouse has on us. Or, unable to turn away, we turn ourselves over to the connection, but it feels engulfing". (David Snartch, Passionate Marriage, p. 56-57)
BUCKETS OF LOVE TO YE SWEET ALI QUEEN OF ASTROLOGY ART AND CORNWALL
LOVE
T
Hey T, god I am feeling bad. Thank yuo so much for that, well its an interesting point of view, but no, I just think ITS OVER. Sometimes it just is !??? Most people dont get back with their ex's right !?
I just saw an old ad for that beach festival, the Zutons played, he knows I would have loved to have gone, I was down here, I could have gone, there were still some tickets I think, he never even contacted me for 5 days, AT ALL. I think its clearly over.
God, how much hurt can one person inflict on another? Going to call him later. I'd rather not be the one to suggest a meeting to sign this lease, but I bet he doesnt. This is all so incredibly humiliating that he has dumped me a 2nd time. All my RL people kept telling me I was heading for a fall, they could see which way it was going as he never ever crossed that boundary with me, despite all the contact.
*hugs* Ali. I don't know what to say.
When do you see the C?
Abs.
Hi Michelle, thankyuou, good point, I guess he knew, but I deflected so many possible convos, what an idiot! If only I knew now what I knew then, I could have spared myself a tonne of grief by just asking him what he was thinking/doing as we went along instead of the endless speculation, angst and horrendous not knowing. It would have made no difference, it was over anyway, I can see that now. This eclipse was supposed to bring me a moment of clarity - and thats it. I've been wasting my time. I'm hardly a DB success story here, I've been a mess for the last 8 months and for what? I've just prolonged the suffering. I am an idiot.
I am seriously thinking of calling him later, in fact, I will, if he doesnt phone me and I am betting he wont call me. I have a feeling I will end up saying something to him.
Thanks for the hugs Abbey.
((((Ali)))))
I understand you totally Ali. It is like a fresh pain. Remember, I've been left 3 times by my H so I understand it feels like a new wound.
If you feel it's over, then get the lease signed and then don't contact him again for anything unless it involves your joint property.
You are torturing yourself Ali. Why? Did you do something wrong? No. Did you waste your time? IMO, no. You did what you needed to do. You love him, that is not a mistake. Letting his actions define your life is the mistake. Stop letting him control your emotions Ali. I know it's easy to say but hard to do. You NEED to do it Ali. The dependency you have emotionally on him is unhealthy for you. Trust me, it is a co-dependency. I never, ever would have considered myself co-dependent but emotionally, I was.
I liked Abbey's idea of hugging our monitors. Let's do that now Ali. Hug your monitor and know that my arms are reaching through the back and wrapping around you. Everyone in my office is thinking I have lost my flipping mind!!!
Ali, if you feel you must call him then do,but please don't say anything in anger.
I think IMO it is good to let him know how hurt you have been and to try to get some closure which will enable you to move on. I always say don't look for answers because there are non but feel in your case there might be.
Please don,t feel you have wasted this time, you did what you felt was right and gave your x the chance to return.
I also agree not many return and often those that do leave again.
I also congratulate you for not getting drawn into the false hope and baby steps.
I think in all honesty we know in our heart when it's over.
If you call,be calm and try to have some notes to help you keep the convo on track. If your anything like me(emotional) its so easy to end up actually saying non of what I intended.
Big hugs,take care.
Thanks naej, this is all driving me beyond the point of insanity. I cant believe I held my feelings in for 6 whole months, I actually feel like screaming and breaking things, but I wont (and I dont want to scream in fact, I dont want to feel this way). I cannot believe that he did not allow me, or us to talk or express any emotion about our 9 years together, or breaking up.
Why do you say you think in this case there might be answers?
Trying to gear myself up for speaking to him, dont know what I will say, or if he will even answer the phone (probably not). He said in his email yesteday that he still felt a bit ill and was absolutely shattered, so he may play that card if he does pick up. I suppose theres a slim possibility that he will phone me.
I'm not sure how late to leave it to see if he will or not, 8? 8.30? Funny how I managed to get through so many days, like 180 of them (ha) and now it suddenly seems imperative to speak to him. But then, I guess thats how its going to feel when you have a once in a lifetime conjunction of Venus (lovelife), Saturn (restrictions, hard tests) and Mercury (communication) all in your 7th house of partners.
Not saying his answers will make any sense to you but its more a feeling than a certainty, but the way he kept up so much contact at one point and then slipped back.
I guess it's just from reading your thread but as I said I am usually a firm believer that there are no answers,but I don't see him as MLC so just maybe he has his reasons that could be verbalised.
Now the point is do you really want to know?
Are you strong enough to hear what he has to say without going down,down,down. OR begging and pleading that you can become whoever he wants or change anything and everything he says about you?
Is he a tv person, best to check you don't call in the middle of whatever he watches regularly.
8-8.20 sounds about right,not too late and he will have eaten.
Good luck.
Good Luck Al. Let us know how it goes.
L. xx
Well, I called my Mum and she talked me out of it. She said that I should respect his privacy, if he wanted to talk to me, he would call me and obviously, him no longer calling me is deliberate and must be for a reason. So now I am not so sure I should. She also thinks he may have met someone.
I agree Neaj, I didnt think he was so much MLC either (although he does have a heap of childhood issues come to the fore)..but there isnt a forum for depressed partners, so this one seemed good enough.
I thikn the last time we spoke, it was very awkward, I was obviously not ok, we had a very different conversation than the ones we had had for months, I was not acting as if, I was clearly struggling. He picked up on that and anyway, in himself he was irritable and angry about this work stuff.
My friend also said, hes in his cave, best to leave him there.
I guess this past year has got me so addled and confused I can no longer think straight.
To ring or not to ring, that is the question. Thoughts anyone !???
((((Al))))
I honestly don't believe he's met someone- I think his depression means he doesn't have the energy for it. On the other hand, I do think he's in his cave and is thinking, although I have no idea what he's thinking about.
I would say to be still. Distract yourself for an hour or two and do something completely different, not thinking about BF at all. Then see how you feel and what your instincts are telling you about calling. Personally, if I still felt the urge to make contact I'd then send a short but friendly text saying 'thinking of you and hope you're feeling better today' but with no expectations of a reply.....
Thinking of you,
L. xx
Thanks Lisa, I guess not, but it was forecast for him (by me).
Good point about the text..although he doesnt get those at home. Its 8.30. So thats it, the calls have stopped (and the emails). I knew that this 2 weeks period was going to be the make or break. I hate being an astrologer. I predicted we'd last 10 years, I predicted we'd break up September 2007 3 years before, I predicted at the beginning of this year that I would know by August one way or another. I hate astrology.
Those of you who are going through relationship difficulties may find this to be a lonely week. Try not to despair. Even if you're in a tough situation, the pain will subside in a week or two, and you'll be able to move forward with a plan.
Resist the temptation to be overly critical and to blame others for the difficulties in your life. At the same time, don't get stuck in blaming yourself, as this isn't particularly helpful or productive, either. The best strategy this week, if you can swing it, is to reserve judgment and wait until next week to see the picture more clearly.
The Full Moon lunar eclipse on Saturday brings ongoing issues to a head. There shouldn't be any surprises to this one. Chances are, you've seen the handwriting on the wall in big, bold letters, although perhaps you've been wishing that it weren't true. The eclipse falls at 24''21' Aquarius, in close conjunction with Neptune, the planet of dreams and delusions. If you can strip away the wishful thinking, you may find that the reality, while stark, is something you can deal with. You just need to confront it, and then deep healing can take place.
...my North Node (true destiny) is at 24'' Aquarius and is taking a direct hit from the eclipse, meaning it hits in harsh opposition to my South Node in my 7th house of 1:1 R's. Lunar eclipses bring things to a culmination and signify endings in the area they land in. Great. I hate astrology. Did I say that already?
Sweet Ali,
I don't know if there's anything I can say, but from my POV it really just seems like bopping in and out of his cave still.
Can you be still, and do something kind to yourself?
What if it is the ending of something else? What if you can have more than one relationship with this man?
What are you going to do to be nice to yourself today???
(((ALI))))))
LOVE,
T
((((((((Ali))))))))
First, I agree with Lisa! (There's a surprise!)
Second, please stop beating yourself up! I think that most of the time when you had a choice of what to do, you made the choice that gave you the best chance to succeed. Don't beat yourself up with what ifs and I shouldas! I think that a lot of the things you are thinking you should have done now would have ended things on the spot, or at least made things a lot harder.
Be quiet for a while. What can it hurt? You're not looking for another R right now, so just detaching and taking care of yourself should be a really good thing for you.
More hugs, Ali! You are a great person!
Thanks T and Jeff and Lisa! My triumvirate of support... like one of those lovely cake stands. I'm a coffee cake! Nice to see you Jeff, thanks for saying I am a good person, funnily enough, someone said that to me yesterday and also, my ex said that to me when he dumped me.
So...for me...I just spoke to a free excellent counsellor for the past hour through the EAP programme for the job I resigned a month ago. He didnt even ask my name. The phone number was on the internet anyway! This country is ace. He was amazing. He listened, we talked about depression, about how someone can go out, work, socialise etc, but then not deal with me. We talked about bereavement and coping mechanisms.
We talked about my feelings of guilt that maybe I didnt handle his Dads death well, didnt give him enough time, forced the issue of moving away...but he said its not my fault, I tried, but communication is a two way thing, you can lead a horse to water...
One thing that jumped out - I said that I felt angry at him and I didnt want to feel angry and I got a bit upset. He paused and said, why dont you want to feel angry at him? And I couldnt answer, then I thought maybe its because I am not used to being angry at him, also that it acknoweldges that he is not giving me something I want from him and I am not going to get what I want and that is a painful thing to face up to.
I didnt call him and I am glad I didnt. So thanks for being there for me guys.
Interestingly, its not an ending of the R for him so much (that already happened, right), but its probably the end of his life in Cornwall, living where he is. He finds out this week what date they want him to move back by.
(((Ali)))
One thing that jumped out - I said that I felt angry at him and I didnt want to feel angry and I got a bit upset. He paused and said, why dont you want to feel angry at him? And I couldnt answer, then I thought maybe its because I am not used to being angry at him, also that it acknoweldges that he is not giving me something I want from him and I am not going to get what I want and that is a painful thing to face up to.
Do you think it is anger or blame? One thing that really helped me to let go of some anger was realising that I was blaming him and once I stopped blaming I felt so much better and even moved onto some forgiveness of both him and me.
I hope you are ok Ali, I do read but don't always have advice. I am glad you found a good counsellor and found the session useful.
P.S - If I were a cake I would be a coffee and walnut!
Hi Julia ! Yep, coffee and walnut, no finer cake known to man!
Just realised that it was DELIBERATE that he was busy the past 3 weekends, especially this one just gone, as he knew I was on my own. And we havent spoken for over a week now. The R we had built up has fallen away in front of my eyes. And now I dont feel as though I can contact him. So its up to him. It feels horrible. I am sure that his BMF had a word with him that weekend (1-3 Aug) as thats when he stopped contacting me.
I feel totally at sea as to whats going to happen next, but nothing I guess. I suppose what I am facing is I have lost my sense of hope. Nothings going to happen next, a big fat nothing. I can only assume with his recent actions and the moving away, that all that bike riding/cinema/socialising with friends/cooking tea together stuff has now ended.
I'm not sure about the anger/blame thing. I mainly blame myself!
If we're not going to see each other or speak much, not only have I lost him, our R and my hope, I guess I also lose a best friend, my very bestest best friend. Thats awful too.
Nothings going to happen next, a big fat nothing.
Hi Ali, this stood out to me. I said the same thing.I know because my kids remind me of it when they try calling me and I am often out.
Maybe, perhaps one part of your life journey has come to an end BUT you are still on the path and it will have lots more twists and turns to go.
Strange as it may seem I often think after all the effort we put into DBing when it ends or we stop putting so much effort in, we miss it, we miss the anticipation,good or bad. We miss the inter action good or bad, because even bad gives us something to mull over to plan with etc...
First of all stop blaming yourself, yes own half by all means but nothing you did or did not do will have caused 100% of this.
Put that same effort into building yourself up.
People are in our life for a reason or a season so I have read. Best friends help us grow, sometimes we outgrow each other but it does not take away from the friendship we shared.
Make plans to keep busy however bad you feel,really try to fake it til you make it!
I am glad you plucked up courage to make the call to the therapist,I hope it helped.
Leave your x alone or make the call. You decide.
It seems cruel of him to do all those activities with you and then just fade away. Maybe it was his way of checking that you were doing ok kind of on your own,not realising how high your hopes were. When he realised that he felt a clean break was kinder. Who knows we can guess til the cows come home.
My x did pretty much the same beggged me to stay in touch, came home for Sunday lunch etc, then changed his mind said he didn't want to give me false hope so no contact was best for me! ha.
Give it time, I know those dreaded words. Take care.