Gotcha.
You think this woman is going to tell you how to man up. I'm not.
I'm also going to tell you to be careful about joining in on the 'man up' bandwagon.
Only you know what you can live with. On YOU ... IF you experiment....try different things and monitor results. Honestly. Keep a log. Your buddies nor your friends here. They can offer brainstorming solutions.......but they don't live your life or with your wife.
Setting boundaries with consequences MAY work.....setting boundaries with a lot of discussion MAY work (because you're dealing with a woman).
Getting tough....I can pretty much tell you .... is you are LUCKY if it works. It probably isn't.
Being a pushover isn't going to work.
So WORK your tools in DR.....it isn't hard, actually.
But don't jump on the blame your spouse or get tough bandwagon if you'd like to keep your family together.
this is a great great post.
Great post and most definitely true. i have seen what happens when you push. they either push back or move farther away.
Great post.
I am TIRED of having friends and family pestering me about how I'm a schmuck for trying to be amicable with my wife, how I need to immediately sit down with an attorney and file for a D, how I should dump all W's stuff on the doorstep, how I should hire some barracuda to shut my wife out of child custody completely and lock her out of my $$$, etc.
They don't get it.
THEY are part of the problem. Our society's acceptance of marriage as little more than a "choice" that can be dropped when one's perceived personal needs seem more important, its acceptance of shysters slugging it out to besmirch each spouse's reputation, the need for bloody vengeance... my alleged friends and many in my family are part of the frigging problem. I may be stuck with my blood, but I've already dropped every single "friend" who kept urging me to go after W with bloody, Sicilian-style vendetta.
I draw the line when and where it needs drawing (e.g, not letting wife and OM have my three agreed-upon custody days to take kids camping), but W and I have worked damned hard to stay friends. Not only am I DBing my ass of, but my counselor is helping me keep my resentment and anger in check, reminding me that W has done great things for/with me, and reminds me that one of my jobs is to not make life with me less attractive than life with OM. It's damned hard, and I will jettison any 3rd party who makes it harder.
Now THAT is a man. Mike, I hope she figures it out soon!
Best of luck~
Thanks for the "props," sleeper, sg, Deauxlie...
Now THAT is a man. Mike, I hope she figures it out soon!
Me too, Deauxlie, me too.
Thanks.
heyya SG
I'm just wonderin what you mean here. are you saying that setting a boundary with a consequence is bad?
Love ya.
Ford.
Depends on the boundary, depends on the consequence. It SEEMS to work better for women than for men. Some folks need to do it....and some men need to be really careful about this.
Sometimes it seals the deal for a woman who has left.
ford...are you playing with my affections
Man up doesn't mean become an ass.
It also does not mean throw your weight around and bark out orders.
But I would honestly love to hear from any of the women out here as to whether or not they would have respect for a man who allowed a wandering female spouse to do whatever they chose to do and just accepted it.
To me man up means to be honest about who you are and what you think is appropriate from a spouse.
And yes, sometimes that means boundaries. But as J3B is quick to remind us, boundaries mean nothing unless we are ready and willing to enforce them. And that means consequences.
Consequences are not punishments.
We are not dealing with children here.
Our spouse, regardless of their wacked out emotional condition, knows dog goned well what is right and what is not. They might have become like an alien, but they have not left the planet. They know full well when they are crossing lines.
It's my belief that reasonably applied and enforced boundaries for behavior, with consequences that are for OUR protection and care, are not things that close the door or seal the deal for our wives.
And if you are a man who is tolerating a cheating, cake eating spouse, and encouraging that behavior by condoning it implicitly through your neediness, I think you're much more likely to be treading down the path of "sealing the deal."
A woman who does not respect you is not going to want to return to you.
There is room for manning up. In fact there is a strong need for it with some of the guys who come to this board. We just need to be good about making it clear just what that means and doesn't mean.
Blessings,
Bill
Manning up is not sending your wife on guilt trips.
Manning up is simply stating what you want and what you are going to do.
Manning up is not being a sook.
Manning up is not saying... "if that's the way you feel" or "so you don't want to spend time with me?"
Just my teensy bit of input... trying to get back into posting
SG
I see where you're coming from.
there are so many variables in different situations.
if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.
Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.
also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.
I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal
I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.
ya know what I mean, vern?
They don't get it.
THEY are part of the problem.
Mike you said it all. It's your fight to fight. You only fight for something you want, need, and care about.
Phil:
Yep.
I think about that line that Liam Neeson says to his kids in "Rob Roy":
"Honor is a gift a man gives to himself."
I've lived my teenage and adult life in a way that adheres to the concepts of honor, integrity, and the sanctity of a person's oath. It's easy to follow that code when things aren't going well and the world, your friends, and family support you. Following that code when you've been betrayed and, in the eyes of the world, "have every right" to lash out is the hard part. The path that I -and many of us- have chosen is difficult, painful, lonely, and invites the ridicule of others.
I can't be bothered with "friends," family, or other people who interpret my actions as being a "doormat." Screw them.
I will stand for and fight for (DB-style) my marriage, behaving in a way that will allow me to look my kids in the eye, myself in the mirror, and at my God and honestly state that I did ALL that I humanly could to save my marriage and my family.
Yes, I, through my well-off, very protective, and very connected parents, have the resources to hire a barracuda and get full custody of my sons and keep 100% of my cash. But what would that teach my sons (other than not to screw with Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa...)? And yes, being a not-unattractive, intelligent, interesting guy living in a college town could almost guarantee that I could "get me some," but once again, what the hell would it teach my sons? I'm better than that. Vengeance in the name of "protecting myself" and/or bed-hopping to satisfy my urges is beneath anyone with a functioning moral compass.
Like I said - those that interpret my efforts as being too conciliatory or being a doormat can, well ... bite me.
SG
I see where you're coming from.
there are so many variables in different situations.
if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.
Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.
also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.
I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal
I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.
ya know what I mean, vern?
One man's common sense is another man's downfall.
--Virginia PeeplesThere ARE so many variables in each situation. And truly, what someone posts about their situation isn't the full story.
We all pretty well know, ultimatums rarely work.
And when a woman who has usually been faithful walks out or is ready to leave ... a man falling apart doesn't work. Setting boundaries and consequences....if you look around at the results....SOUNDS like great common sense and advice...
but it doesn't seem to 'work'. WHY....we could look at lots and lots of emotional/psychological reasons. But that isn't what we do here....we experiment and monitor results.....do more of what works and do less of what doesn't work.
What SEEMS to be key is
how your W EXPERIENCED you .... not the way you
think you treated her.
You might not have been abusive....you might have just been too distant. But first work on repairing your end with her. Do your work before you start setting boundaries.....and be real honest.....and get HER perspective first.
SG
I see where you're coming from.
there are so many variables in different situations.
if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.
Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.
also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.
I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal
I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.
ya know what I mean, vern?
One man's common sense is another man's downfall.
--Virginia PeeplesThere ARE so many variables in each situation. And truly, what someone posts about their situation isn't the full story.
We all pretty well know, ultimatums rarely work.
And when a woman who has usually been faithful walks out or is ready to leave ... a man falling apart doesn't work. Setting boundaries and consequences....if you look around at the results....SOUNDS like great common sense and advice...
but it doesn't seem to 'work'. WHY....we could look at lots and lots of emotional/psychological reasons. But that isn't what we do here....we experiment and monitor results.....do more of what works and do less of what doesn't work.
What SEEMS to be key is
how your W EXPERIENCED you .... not the way you
think you treated her.
You might not have been abusive....you might have just been too distant. But first work on repairing your end with her. Do your work before you start setting boundaries.....and be real honest.....and get HER perspective first.
Phil:
Yep.
I think about that line that Liam Neeson says to his kids in "Rob Roy":
"Honor is a gift a man gives to himself."
I've lived my teenage and adult life in a way that adheres to the concepts of honor, integrity, and the sanctity of a person's oath. It's easy to follow that code when things aren't going well and the world, your friends, and family support you. Following that code when you've been betrayed and, in the eyes of the world, "have every right" to lash out is the hard part. The path that I -and many of us- have chosen is difficult, painful, lonely, and invites the ridicule of others.
I can't be bothered with "friends," family, or other people who interpret my actions as being a "doormat." Screw them.
I will stand for and fight for (DB-style) my marriage, behaving in a way that will allow me to look my kids in the eye, myself in the mirror, and at my God and honestly state that I did ALL that I humanly could to save my marriage and my family.
Yes, I, through my well-off, very protective, and very connected parents, have the resources to hire a barracuda and get full custody of my sons and keep 100% of my cash. But what would that teach my sons (other than not to screw with Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa...)? And yes, being a not-unattractive, intelligent, interesting guy living in a college town could almost guarantee that I could "get me some," but once again, what the hell would it teach my sons? I'm better than that. Vengeance in the name of "protecting myself" and/or bed-hopping to satisfy my urges is beneath anyone with a functioning moral compass.
Like I said - those that interpret my efforts as being too conciliatory or being a doormat can, well ... bite me.
I LOVE IT!!!!
Mike85,
As far as male DBers go:
You are DA BOMB!
I can hardly believe you have been at this for such a short time. Reminds me of a Robert Redford film a couple of decades ago; "The Natural."
We should all print out your above post, glue it to a 2 X 4, hold it with both hands and periodically pop ourselves on the forehead with it like those monks at the beginning of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
Thanks, sg, sleeper.
I still get depressed and discouraged at times (e.g., when I make the mistake of thinking about upcoming holidays/special events, when my kids are with W and I'm totally alone, when I see OM in car when W picks up/drops off kids, when friends get busy and forget to call or visit...), but I make danged sure to put on that brave face for W, kids, etc. I remember my C's advice to make life with me not appear less appealing than life with OM, so the cheerful act gets tossed in with the clean house, immaculately maintained property to play a part.
By this point, I realize that the "wave" will pass. I find that reading the archived threads help me a lot. So do fun DVDs (MST3K, Anthony Bourdain), uplifting tunes (e.g., the New Radicals' "You Get What You Give"). Prayer helps. As goofy as it may sound, re-reading some of my Fraternity stuff helps (our tradition describes us as knights in the noblest sense).
I hate that my W is with OM, but between my getting a new job, revitalizing my R with my sons, reclaiming my great R with my in-laws, working with a great C, and trying so hard to be peppy and friendly with W while still letting her have her "space" and "time," I've come to the conclusion that I'm doing what I should to this point. Hell, I've even told people that this crisis has resulted in positive changes (which it has), knowing full well that comments like that will get back to W.
This is damned hard. It's draining. But it's right. I believe that in my heart.
Mike, yes it is right. Not alot of men would put up with the pain. It is obvious you love your wife and children.For me it has been the longest and shortest 11 months of my life. But like you it is worth it. it is right. it is what God wants us to do.
Mike85,
Perhaps we need something for us DBing men trying to save our family from hell and hardship. The Marines have Semper Fi, "Always faithful."
Semper Fidelis Familia!
I'm with you brother. Attack, Attack, Attack. Immpeccable maintained household.
The crisis is good as it is building charecter.
Man UP for me was doing things from the heart and out of love even if it causes you pain.
It is about being the best friend to your best friend even if they don't reciprocate.
It is about giving them what they need not what you think they need.
It is about doing these things because you choose to, not because you need to and making it clear that you have a life and a backbone.
It is about setting an example for your children, wife, friends and family.
It is being the "rock" that your best friend needs even though you feel like a pile of pebbles.
It is about taking the high road without being judgemental.
Ultimately it might be having the courage to make the final R choice (D) when you reach your endurance limit.
In my sitch, my W and I separated with the sale of our dream home. I had always been the "doer" inthe household....getting things done. Everyone knew it, everyone (mostly her family and friends) told me to let her choke on her own space that she was asking for, to let her fall flat on her face in the task of moving a household including our children. Effectively going dark.
Why would I do that to my best friend...the person I chose to marry and have children with. My W received virtually no help from any of her friends/family. If I did the same, I would just be one of them and would have justified her choice.
Instead I chose to respect her space and let her swim a little bit. If she started having trouble swimming then I would quietly throw a life line and help her tread water (fix something in the new house, help unburden some of the laundry, unpack some boxes). Something done so as to not take over but to gently help, to give her the strength to swim again and still have her space. All done without any expectation or need for praise....just helping a friend. I never let her drown.
At the end of the day I would then go and fix up my place and make it in to a family environment. One that would be comfortable for anyone to come and visit, one where my kids would want to go to. Basically moving on with my life
I would also be the ear to listen to her, never bringing up the R talk. I never required her to give an apology by saying she made a mistake (honestly she didn't). I just allowed her to show her love and renewed interest. Don't even want to talk about it....words always get us in trouble.
In the beginning I had quite a few people shake their heads at me, tell me I was a fool. This fool is back with is wife in a R that has seen more mutual respect and love in the last couple of months than it has seen in a long-long time.
Sorry for rambling on so much
PS: So many times I see people "go dark" and "set boundaries" with their WAS with such a tone of vindictiveness that it makes me sad. They really miss the point. Vindictiveness will never lead you back into your loved one's heart
Twin Dad,
Excellent, excellent post.
Your list is a great one and something ALL of us should aspire to ALL the time, DB'ing in a crisis or not.
Think about it...
It is about being the best friend to your best friend even if they don't reciprocate. Unconditional love.
It is about giving them what they need not what you think they need. Empathy to others.
It is about doing these things because you choose to, not because you need to and making it clear that you have a life and a backbone. Self respect and care.
It is about setting an example for your children, wife, friends and family. Personal integrity.
It is being the "rock" that your best friend needs even though you feel like a pile of pebbles. For better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.
It is about taking the high road without being judgemental. Personal character.
Ultimately it might be having the courage to make the final R choice (D) when you reach your endurance limit. Being honest with yourself.
I think the point of this thread was exactly what you mentioned in your last paragraph.
If you are choosing to do something to send a message - TALK to the person and give them the message instead.
If you are choosing to do something to punish or seek revenge - THINK about what that says about YOU.
If you are choosing to do something only because it might save your marriage - BEWARE that the change is artificial and will not last.
Personal integrity, being who you are because that is who you are, and having compassion and empathy to the most important person in your life should trump all in the end.
If your plans do not stack up against who you think you are as a human being, chances are those plans are ill advised.
Blessings,
Bill
Thanks Bill,
I love how you encapsulated my ramblings into such succinct phrases (in the blue). You really know how to break it down and get to the point
Phil: The exoteric motto for my fraternity is "Be Men" (In Greek, which is the way it's written on our crest, it's pronounced "An-dreeth-es-thay". That's pretty much what I'd been working with.
Last weekend, one of the guys I was hanging with in the bar was a younger alum Brother, and I went off on an admittedly beer-fueled rant about how our Fraternity motto and our tradition as latter-day knights has helped me focus on the kind of man I aspire to be and how I should behave. I don't know if it was the Labatt's, the content, or how I delivered it, but the guy was impressed.
Twindad: Great post, and having decided to read a lot of the posts in your attached threads, I have to say, you're an inspiration. Knowing that there can be light at the end of the tunnel and that taking the high ground -despite what the world thinks and advises- can get you to that light as a better person, well, it helps.
Mike85,
Be excellent to one another, and party on dude. Well it was a beer fueled rant. Perhaps you should write the rant down before you forget it.
Be Men. Perhaps you can send a link to the Charter.
It is about setting an example for your children.
Don't you think this is the number one reason?
Man UP for me was doing things from the heart and out of love even if it causes you pain.
It is about being the best friend to your best friend even if they don't reciprocate.
It is about giving them what they need not what you think they need.
It is about doing these things because you choose to, not because you need to and making it clear that you have a life and a backbone.
It is about setting an example for your children, wife, friends and family.
It is being the "rock" that your best friend needs even though you feel like a pile of pebbles.
It is about taking the high road without being judgemental.
Ultimately it might be having the courage to make the final R choice (D) when you reach your endurance limit.
In my sitch, my W and I separated with the sale of our dream home. I had always been the "doer" inthe household....getting things done. Everyone knew it, everyone (mostly her family and friends) told me to let her choke on her own space that she was asking for, to let her fall flat on her face in the task of moving a household including our children. Effectively going dark.
Why would I do that to my best friend...the person I chose to marry and have children with. My W received virtually no help from any of her friends/family. If I did the same, I would just be one of them and would have justified her choice.
Instead I chose to respect her space and let her swim a little bit. If she started having trouble swimming then I would quietly throw a life line and help her tread water (fix something in the new house, help unburden some of the laundry, unpack some boxes). Something done so as to not take over but to gently help, to give her the strength to swim again and still have her space. All done without any expectation or need for praise....just helping a friend. I never let her drown.
At the end of the day I would then go and fix up my place and make it in to a family environment. One that would be comfortable for anyone to come and visit, one where my kids would want to go to. Basically moving on with my life
I would also be the ear to listen to her, never bringing up the R talk. I never required her to give an apology by saying she made a mistake (honestly she didn't). I just allowed her to show her love and renewed interest. Don't even want to talk about it....words always get us in trouble.
In the beginning I had quite a few people shake their heads at me, tell me I was a fool. This fool is back with is wife in a R that has seen more mutual respect and love in the last couple of months than it has seen in a long-long time.
Sorry for rambling on so much
PS: So many times I see people "go dark" and "set boundaries" with their WAS with such a tone of vindictiveness that it makes me sad. They really miss the point. Vindictiveness will never lead you back into your loved one's heart
You have SO MUCH wisdom in here!!!
You guys have made this thread so good...I've linked it for newcomers.
Thanks!
Mike,
I appreciate your kind words. I got my inspiration from reading about Diehard's sitch. He took a similar path but I must admit he had a much tougher journey than I have had. He is the "Man" in Man Up in my opinion. I wonder if I could ever have the compassion and stamina that he did. It was after reading his sitch that I truly felt empowered in my R and to be able to feel good about it as well. He is worth checking out.
Man up doesn't mean become an ass.
It also does not mean throw your weight around and bark out orders.
But I would honestly love to hear from any of the women out here as to whether or not they would have respect for a man who allowed a wandering female spouse to do whatever they chose to do and just accepted it.
To me man up means to be honest about who you are and what you think is appropriate from a spouse.
And yes, sometimes that means boundaries. But as J3B is quick to remind us, boundaries mean nothing unless we are ready and willing to enforce them. And that means consequences.
Consequences are not punishments.
We are not dealing with children here.
Our spouse, regardless of their wacked out emotional condition, knows dog goned well what is right and what is not. They might have become like an alien, but they have not left the planet. They know full well when they are crossing lines.
It's my belief that reasonably applied and enforced boundaries for behavior, with consequences that are for OUR protection and care, are not things that close the door or seal the deal for our wives.
And if you are a man who is tolerating a cheating, cake eating spouse, and encouraging that behavior by condoning it implicitly through your neediness, I think you're much more likely to be treading down the path of "sealing the deal."
A woman who does not respect you is not going to want to return to you.
There is room for manning up. In fact there is a strong need for it with some of the guys who come to this board. We just need to be good about making it clear just what that means and doesn't mean.
Blessings,
Bill
This post of Bill's pretty much sums up my view as well. As many of you know, I'm as "tough love" as anyone around here, but "tough love" needs to include both elements -- the "tough" AND the "love."
Too many approaches emphasize one at the expense of the other.
I also think the tough approach works best when it represents a sort of "180" for the person, especially if that person is a man. If they have been overly enabling, overly passive, allowing cake-eating, etc., in the past marriage history, then it can be extremely effective. However, if they've been overly controlling, then it may be a counterproductive approach (CAVEAT: if the person was TRULY controlling in the past. NOT if a spouse actively involved in an affair CLAIMS "controlling" behavior on the part of the betrayed spouse, because that is classic affair script and usually so much b.s.!)
I also believe that there are a whole different set of dynamics when infidelity is involved, that require different, often tougher, approaches.
To me, "man up" means that you set and enforce boundaries, WHILE DBing (GALing, etc.) and shining a path back to the marriage.
Great topic, SG!!
- Puppy
sleeper:
It struck me that as an obvious fan of Dune, you could cite the Bene Gesserit "Litany Against Fear" in DB posts:
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
Back on topic - kids came with me when I went to mow MIL&FIL's lawn. MIL is having hard time with W's MLC behaviors, FIL's Parkinson's disease, trying to sell their house, etc., so she calls me to help out. It's important for my sons to see that family relationships aren't severed b/c one individual has chosen to "opt out," how family obligations should be met in hard times, etc. I don't know if W is aware that her parents stop by to visit me every couple of weeks and that I've been doing yardwork for them, and I don't know how she would feel about it if she did know. The truth is, it doesn't matter. My in-laws and I are family. They need my help and support, so I give it. I need their love and support, and they give it. It's not about W. My obligations to my family extend to her parents, so I gladly honor them - they are truly wonderful people who I love very much.
Mike85,
I'm glad you still have a good relationship with you inlaws. Mine have said they don't want to get involved. They also shut me out of their lives. Then in another sentence they tell me that they will always love me and that I will always be their son in law. However when they do get involved in turns out for the worse. Wife calls me and tells me to leave her Father alone, and stop telling on her.
Anytime I would call them to vent. It would get turned around on me like I was doing something wrong. I finally told Dad again if you have a problem with me calling then you tell me. I said if you are going to act like nothing is wrong, then please just pick up the phone every once in ahwhile and ask me how I'm doing. Say you don't want to talk about the situation or what your daughter is doing, you just want to talk to SIL.
He still hasn't called.
I tried to explain to him that his daughter is MLC or something, but they don't want to listen.
Blood is thicker than water, but this is ridiculous. Since her Father even told me that his daughter can be a real b|tch. The day I asked him to marry her, he said. Don't let her come back, and if she gets out of hand, back hand her, because she can be a real b|tch.
Well thanks Dad... Because now she is going around telling everyone that I abused her. I never backhanded her either.
My regained rapport with my in-laws required work. On all of our parts.
Prior to W dropping the bomb, she and her mom were very close. In fact W told MIL that she was going to drop the bomb just prior to doing so. At the time, I asked W what MIL's reaction was, and W said that her mom was sad for her and us. Period.
Prior to the bomb-drop, in-laws and I were very close. MIL and I used to stay up and talk for hours. We have the same warped sense of humor, both love Britcoms, exotic food, and her daughter. FIL and I also got along great. He is a Korean War combat vet, built flying model planes for a hobby, worked in an historic warplane museum after retirement, and is just a great guy. After the sudden, unexpected death of BIL from a rare genetic disease (caused him to throw clots after a minor surgery, leading to massive stroke and death at age 40, leaving a young widow and three young kids), FIL told me that he considered *me* to be his son now. I was honored and have always tried to live up to that.
Prior to the bomb, MIL went in for knee replacement surgery, and it was scheduled during my school's spring break so that FIL could move in with us and I could help take care of him (he has Parkinson's). His Parkinson's was worsening considerably around that time, a fact that neither W nor I knew. We ended up having to have him rushed via ambulance to the hospital, where they informed W and I about the worsened dementia and loss of body function. W spent weeks bouncing from FIL's hospital (dealing with neurologists, etc.), to MIL's recovery hospital room, to work, coming home only to sleep. My job was to hold the fort and take care of the kids. I barely saw her. When I did, she was exhausted and mentally devastated. Her dad was her hero.
I definitely believe that the situation with her dad was the straw that broke the camel's back, helping to trigger her MLC.
Anyhow, W kept a distance btw in-laws and me. I didn't contact them, not wanting to put them in the middle. W served as sole conduit of info to them, "coloring" the truth. As a result, MIL advised W to take hard line with me and consult L. When I happened to run into MIL a few weeks post-bomb, she told me that her daughter was having "classic" MLC (I laughed, b/c by this time I had figured that out). She said that she advised W to take hard line b/c MIL thought I was going to exercise my legal rights to snag full custody of kids. We had a long talk and I asked her what, in the last 20 years of her knowing me, would lead her to believe that I would behave that way. She apologized to me, we hugged. Things were still odd, though. Turns out that she knew about W's affair, knew that i didn't yet know about it, and was fearing an explosion from me when I did.
It was apparently a birthday card I sent to FIL for his 75th anniversary that finally broke the ice for good. I enclosed a brief letter explaining how much I love them, missed them, and still consider them family. I also told them that despite the awkwardness, the pain, the loneliness, the sense of betrayal, I still love their daughter and am working to restore my family. I also enclosed a couple "Pearls Before Swine" comic strips (told you that we shared the same sense of humor...).
Within a couple of days of getting the card, MIL and FIL visited me. There was hugging, tears, and a lot of mutually supportive talk. I saw how W's behavior has hurt them, embarrassed them, and drained them. W has pretty much severed the close ties with MIL, blown off their scheduled lunches, and only visits MIL & FIL with OM in tow.
I realized that although what I'm going through is horrible, I at least have a great C, know what books to read, and have this great place for help. They have nothing.
Scratch that.
They have me.
And will continue to do so.
It took a lot of work and trust on all our parts to get to where we are. I may have made the first efforts to open myself up and start the communication, but they took the leap and responded with love and trust. We need each other. Heck, I've even passed on some of the advice folks here have given - e.g., telling them to be careful in what they say/do despite W's behavior, as she will need a "safe" place when things with OM fall apart. MIL and I enjoy spending time hanging again, sometimes for commiserating, sometimes just to discuss books or TV shows, sometimes just to hang with my kids.
It took work, but it is worth it. For me, for them, and for my kids.
Bravo Mike!
Shakespeare always said the course of true love never did run smooth.
But from the sounds of it, the inlaw situation sounds really smooth.
Great post!
My two cents:
Levine-"hold on to your NUTS" is a great read. It has some great insight.
W and I are separated. S9 wanted one-on-one time with W during my parenting time. No arguments from me. I encouraged it. It goes against your instincts, but you need to always ask "What is best for the kids".
W is going to get her space for the next year. I will DB away and let her "find herself".....
Mike,
Re: "Fear is the mind killer"
I never really appreciated that until just post-bomb. I was so upset/afraid, etc. that I saw how fear was paralyzing me. It was never part of my post, but I recited the litany often.
This fear is gone now.
I do remain.
Mike,
This is inspiring stuff. Your sitch is not my sitch, but it's still something that makes me sit up and think about what honour and integrity means in a man. I didn't have it and am trying to get it. It may save my marriage, it may not. But that's not the point. Either way...this thread is another lighthouse on my journey back to integrity.
Thank you.
Esky