Can we please keep this a happier thread please. I dont want the same BS as the last thread. Had a great day with the family and now its time to wind down and relax. sitting here sipping my sweet tea and trying to translate my thoughts into common sense
Glad to hear you and your family enjoyed your day at the 'chalk art' show. Keep making happy memories.
Is this like the chalk art in Mary Poppins?
Hi Happy glad to hear you had a great day too. Please accept my apologies, my posts were never intended in a hurtful way.
I'm all for a 'HAPPY' thread !
so we all seem to agree on one thing at least I lack tact and diplomacy when I post to others. perhaps it is the passion behind my words that gets lost in the translation. I dont want to analyze this to death. I just see so much hurt and pain and for some the choices seem so obvious from an outsider. some of the threads here are people so stuck just like a deer in the headlights. they are afraid to move forwards just in case they miss out on a chance to make their marriage ok again. they are scared to death to actually take a chance to pursue their own hapiness and do something for themselves.i know what I did to my own family and i know the remorse i feel and felt when I was welcomed back home. at times it feels like it was a dream like nothing ever really happened and things at home are exactly where they should be. at other times it feels like I shouldnt have been one of the lucky ones who had a family praying for me to come to my senses considering how much I dissapointed them all. but in my own defense there are some things I still knew were wrong and knew that I couldnt cross the line. so i know that even in the very dark times God was still protecting me from hitting the point of no return. I saw a show on TV recently and it was about a Man who had survived a terrible accident. he was the only survivor and instead of being grateful that God spared his life he had guilt and anger and shame. He felt as though there were so many who had died who had families that needed them and should have been chosen to live instead of him.I think that is how I feel when I come to these boards to post.
I think I understand what you're trying to get across, Happy.
And I'm truly sorry you're still feeling guilt, etc. I think , though, that I understand. You worded it very well.
I think you're coming from a point of trying to 'protect' those that are here, because you KNOW firsthand the MLCer mind/heart/soul. You KNOW that it's really a toss-up of whether they'll ever be the same, or if they even want to be the same person again. And you're concerned that many of us here think if we do all the right things, say the right things, don't push any 'buttons' that will set off the WAS, that things will go right back to the way they were before the crisis.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, even if MLC is involved, in the majority of the cases, the WAS had major issues involving the LBS that they never voiced. That those issues, in themselves, would/could be enough for a person to want to leave a marriage.
I'm not saying I believe that is the right road to take. But I also know many people are afraid to confront issues , so they take the road of less confrontation, and bury those negative feelings..only to have them fester to the top even more toxic than they needed to be.
Whether you understand it or not, you have a lot to offer by posting here. You can give us an insight we otherwise wouldn't have. But in doing so, you can't/shouldn't judge us...anymore than we should judge you.
What you see on these boards are people that are paralyzed at first by fear, hurt, anger etc. Later they learn to put one foot in front of the other. And in time, they are learning to walk on their own, AND to offer help and support to those just starting off on a journey they must make on their own.
When you see something that blatantly looks like someone just wanting out of a marriage, you have to step back and remember that not every situation is the same...and that certainly the dynamics of each relationship are not the same. People are here because of their love for their spouse. The love of their family. They've already had too many people tell them to get rid of their WAS, that they deserve better, that they're being blind and ignorant to the REAL truth.
The people that come here have placed their trust in their spouses for years. And now that that trust has been betrayed, they have to learn to trust their own beliefs and feelings, and learn how to manage without the life partner they gave themselves to. They have to learn to trust a higher power..something maybe they never did before in their lives, or at least not to this extent. That is a very hard thing to do for some LBS. They're afraid if they're not trying to control things, that they'll get even worse.
Oh...and the guilt. The guilt of the LBS. And the shame and anger. Unless you've been a LBS, you have no idea the amount of these emotions we feel. And what a hard battle it is to regain our sense of self.
Happy, you have so much to offer here. Your snippets of insight from your perspective are worth a lot. I hope you understand that. What we all have to be careful of is not to judge each other. There's already been too much of that in our private lives.
Yes, God is still protecting you...as He is all of us here. We'll still make mistakes, and we'll still pay the price of those mistakes...but He's always there if we ask for Him.
I don't know your whole story, but I do know that you have a passionate heart..that's evident from your postings. Whether it's frustration, anger, whatever...you are anything by 'wishy-washy'. You just have to accept that many of us here don't care to tolerate anyone telling us what is wrong with us anymore. So if you come off that way, you'll more than likely get your arse bit off. LOL
You're a survivor, just like the rest of us, and for that , I am glad.
instead of being grateful that God spared his life he had guilt and anger and shame. He felt as though there were so many who had died who had families that needed them and should have been chosen to live instead of him.I think that is how I feel when I come to these boards to post.
But you can't know why you were chosen. There are so many reasons that we cannot see.
An amazing thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I've been having some work done on my house, and the contractor is a member of my church. He had been here for about a month, and just before he left, he said he wanted to sit down w/ me and tell me something. Well, apparently, when he started the work, he was having big problems with his W, to the point that he had gone to see a L. They are a young couple with a 2 y/o son, and he (contractor) is the oldest of 8 children; his mother has been a widow since her children were young.
So, he said that, as he was working on the house, and particularly my son's room, he was thinking about his W and son. He saw how much work it was for me to take care of everything, and how little my kids see their father. And he didn't want that for his family. So he decided to have a big talk with his W and work things out.
And they did. There was a big, but fairly easily resolved, issue that was causing the problems, and they found a solution.
Now, this has nothing to do with MLC, but everything to do with God's plan. I don't believe that God is happy to see a M end, but if it does, He can still make something good come out of it. I am much happier; I am closer to God; and my sitch saved a marriage! Not only that, this guy is a role model for his seven siblings. Who knows what a difference this could make?
Happy, we all come here wanting our M's to be saved. In the beginning, I will admit to feeling jealous of those who did get there. However, as we mature in our journey, I think we really do feel nothing but sincere happiness for those who make it, and regain a HEALTHY R.
I do agree with you that there are probably a number of Ss on here who aren't in MLC. My XH wasn't. Or at least, he had other, more serious issues that came to a head, possibly as a crisis, but they were there before and still are.
The reason I seldom post is that I find it hard to see people suffering, and I just want to make it stop. But that's not effective advice, so I tend to stay away. I think you are the same, only you act on your desire to advise! But people can get that kind of advice by just picking up the phone or a magazine. They come here to get advice on saving their M, regardless of whether you or I or anyone else thinks it is worth saving.
All the best to you, H.
Nicola
Creed -
Another amazing post! Thanks for your insights.
Hi Happy.
I have followed your posts with interest for a long time. I may have even posted once or twice to you, I'm not sure. Anyway, I am glad that things worked out for you and I hope that this thread accomplishes what you hope for. I am sorry the last one turned into such a mess. In all my time here I have been most surprised at how people turn on one another. But, I guess that is the price you pay with emotions running high.
Anyway-
It is funny that you are posting again, because I often run your sitch through my head when thinking about my own. I remember you saying that your wife did the whole detachment thing so well- enough that you were on your own but not so much that you knew you could never go back.
I am writing to you because I am stuck. Actually, I just unstuck myself but am wondering if I did the right thing. I just need some reinforcement here from someone who has been there.
Long story short- My H and I divorced in Feb. Right before it happened he began telling me he loved me (he had stopped for 3 years previous). He IMed me late one night and left a message that said that he needed to say what he has been screaming in his head for ages- that he loved me and always did. (Yeah, he was one who at one time said that he didn't love me and doubted that he ever did.)
At mediation he basically told me that this had all gone too far but he didn't know how to stop it. I let that go- I figured he needed to have the guts to tell his lawyer that he wasn't going to go through with things. He did end up postponing, but the lawyer said that he could only do so for 10 days and then he would have to go before the judge anyway to comletely stop the D or to continue on. He ended up doing it.
Still, he wanted to start fresh and said that the D was necessary in order to do so. We began dating and all was well. He got distant again and admitted that he was so scared that things would go back- that he didn't know if he could risk his heart by giving it his all.
We continue to putter along. He gets close and then backs away. He does, however, still have full access to the house. He comes in as he pleases and has never listened to my request that he knock before coming in. Last week he showed up with a basket of laundry! Anyway, I guess I hit my breaking point. I just can't handle that anymore- he has the best of both worlds while I am here dealing with the everyday stuff (kids, bills, yard, etc.)
I finally did what everyone has been telling me to do- I told him that I would prefer he stay away from the house. I felt it was the only way I could keep my sanity at this point. I do not have access to his house. He comes in and goes through my mail and at times he was looking at my text messages and phone log. He is still very flirty with me- last week we even went on a date to the movies.
I am having too hard of a time removing myself from the fact that we have kids and 20 years together. I mean, I try to start fresh, but I can't.
Anyway, I don't know that this was the right step. As I said, I think of you saying that your wife was tolerant to a point. My ex has said that he has driven by here at night, so badly wanting to stop or that he wants to call at times but doesn't. I tried for 3 years to make him feel safe enough to do so, but it just hasn't worked. I need to accept that it isn't ME doing this but him.
Do you have any advice/suggestions? I need someone to tell me straight, tact or no tact. I dont want to hear about baby steps and all of that. THe fact is, my ex doesn't know what he wants. I do. I want an intact family. I will do what it takes to get there.
Thanks, Happy. I will not clog up your thread with all of this. I just don't have it in me after all this time to start one of my own. As you can see, it's been a loooooooong time that I have been around.
Thanks!
Pam
Pam,
I was going to lurk for the rest of the day, but I just can't. Your story is so *inspiring.* You need to know that I believe you are an AWESOME woman! You have loved your man for so long and now you are loving yourself. I see this as a great thing for you.
I admire your courage, your wisdom, your tolerance and your tenacity. If I were you, I would do the thing that most makes you feel *comfortable.* It's all right there, written in your heart! I can see that you have been around for a LONG time and do not post much.
I would like to see you have a thread of your own, but that's just me. I believe you should tell your husband that you have come to the "conclusion that there are some boundaries that need not be broken anymore, ever, again, until and unless" he makes up his mind what he wants. And, if that is you, then he MUST follow your heart and come home. If not, then he MUST respect your boundaries.
That is only what I would do, Pam. But I am often a strong-willed woman. Please go with your own gut! Remember. We are here to help you through it not to do it for you.
((((((hugs)))))
and happy day,
s
Pam have you thought about asking him what he wants? i say this only because to me it sounds as if he needs a shove in the right direction and he is almost like a scared little kid and needs some direction. i also think that the fact that he still wants you in his life shows you that this relationship is not over. let me ask you something and be honest. if you did not feel good about completely letting him go and to stay away from the house, then why did you do it? as idiotic as it sounds only you can make your own decisions and only you know in your heart what the right thing is for your life. so what if you both putter along for a bit longer there is no time line or specific date that he has to be back for. no of course this is my personal opinion but I really do beleive from what you have said that this may not have been the absolute best choice for you, but i also think you made this choice because you are so emotionally spent and just wanted to have him hurry up and make a choice. you sound like a very level headed woman and the words you use in your post to describe your husband show how much you really do love him. please dont allow any anger or bitterness to take root as you have done so well and have come so far. trust God to help you to continue this journey with the same love and grace you have had towards your husband so far. it is good to establish boundaries and it is good to have zero expectaions but if you also make things to be so unattainable and hard to reach you may end up with regrets. Pam, love never fails.
Thanks, Happy. I started my own thread. It wouldn't be fair to you to keep this going here.
I hope you continue to post.
And, thank you for that kind reply. I always knew you were a softie!
WOW Happy, I am so impressed by your post. You become a different person when you use that softness in your words.
I have a question for you, mainly for the ladies that post here as so many of you seem to be stuck or second guessing yourselves. So if you knew 100% that your husbands were absolutely not going to come home ever how would you change your lives>?what would you do right now to make yourself happy and to feel complete WITHOUT jumping into another relationship? what goals would you make and what changes would you make?
I think knowing would help with closure, instead of being in limbo. I would know for sure that he's not coming back and I would be on my own with D from then on. It's the guessing "is he, isn't he" that's killing me.
Dar try thinking outside the box. a life without your husband. not talking about divorce I am talking about your life. your husband is not your whole life is he? HOW WOULD YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE
I'm living it Happy. I feel like there's just not enough time in a day to do everything to really really live though. I've got to be mom, employee, mom again at night with making dinner, bathtime, bedtime, etc. And still need to squeeze me time in there to live my life. I'm in an anger stage though from dropping the rope, so I might not be too helpful. Just thought H was honestly going to want to work this out and he hasn't made the attempt to really do so yet. So anyway, living life....I'd work out every other day, play more with D7, get out, have fun, talk more walks, less couch time. Things like that.
and what is stopping you other then your self? why cant you do any of the things you talk about? why cant you live your life without any expectations of his coming back home? what are you so afraid of?
I think I'm getting better at doing things. I've recently (like yesterday) let it go. So now I can do all that I'd like to do. I'm just angry that I'm the one to make the choice to let go. I'll be improving though, you'll see.
Wasn't this supposed to be a happy thread?
this is a happy thread. you are reclaiming your life you are going to stop existing and start living again. life is for the living. enjoy it cherish it. stop living your life in limbo.
The same thing I am doing while I stand for my marriage. Work on walking closer with God and becoming a better person. Deciding what kinds of things I really like doing and making plans to do them. My finances are not so that I can take on too much right now but I have plans for when I get things back under control to fly down and spend some time with a friend in Florida.
those are good things but are you happy right now in your life? are you indifferent to your husband? are you able to "not" think about him?your signature line is very telling.
Why would I want to be indifferent and not think about my husband? I am leaving it to God and standing for my marriage. I am happy except for the financial crisis I am working my way through. It is hard to be too happy when you have no vehicle and you are working hard not to lose your house as well. I am content with my life. My sons will be heading to college, one for his senior year and one for the first time. I am looking forward to watching my son play college football and getting my rooms painted and redone. I have plans to visit my oldest son in another month and a half. I am thinking of spending a long weekend in Florida with a friend. I have lots of friends and honestly for the first time, I really enjoy spending some time alone at home. My life has improved as I grow closer in my relationship with God. I am doing what I feel is right for me and what I feel led to do. So if you want to hear that I am not happy because I am standing for my marriage, you will be disappointed.
I have a question for you, mainly for the ladies that post here as so many of you seem to be stuck or second guessing yourselves. So if you knew 100% that your husbands were absolutely not going to come home ever how would you change your lives>?what would you do right now to make yourself happy and to feel complete WITHOUT jumping into another relationship? what goals would you make and what changes would you make?
Good question, made me think... and then the answer came to me.
I would live the life I am living now.
In time probably I would start a course or find a direction in life to concentrate on, for when the kids grow up, but right now, I am where I want to be...with my kids, with my friends, with my family, doing the things I love doing.
Maybe the pain of not knowing would disappear and that could only make me even happier in my life.
anewme why are you so defensive about standing for your marriage? can you not stand while having a life also? it confuses me. are you married or divorced? and please take it down a notch I am not here to fight with you and i am not attacking you.
I am content with my life.
What a beautiful statement!
IMHO, contentment is the goal. Not Happiness.
Contentment doesn't start wars. Contentment doesn't kill. Contentment doesn't steal. Contentment doesn't destroy families.
But if you drill down deep enough, every one of these things could be caused by someone's(however warped it may be) desire to find happiness.
With apologies to anyone who may have been affected by this - I heard it said once and tend to agree with the statement that even people who commit suicide, who take their own life, are seeking happiness - the freedom from the despair they find themselves in.
Now that I've cast a shadow on the 'happy' thread,
I want to thank ANM for reminding me of what's really important. -Thanks.
those are good things but are you happy right now in your life? are you indifferent to your husband? are you able to "not" think about him?your signature line is very telling.
I guess I need clarification about what you are trying to say here. What is telling about my signature...this is what our S18 said the day our D was final. Legally I am divorced.
I am not sure why every time I answer one of your questions I am accused of being defensive...don't read anything into my answers just take them at face value you don't have to agree. I am one of the people you have told are "stuck". I am still not sure what that means. My life has changed tremendously since this all started but I am not ready to walk away from what is still important to me...an intact family...not just for me but for my sons and their future families.
I don't know why I responded anyway other than out of boredom because I don't have a vehicle and all my friends are working. When I try to take part in a discussion with you, I always leave feeling as if I was set up.
so if contentment is the goal how is one to get this contentment? what must you do to reach this goal? would letting go help you to reach this place?what are the goals you have put into place to get there?
Knowing they wouldn't come back makes life easier.
It is not for nothing that therapists say it is harder to get over divorce than it is to get over your spouses death...
It is the not knowing that makes life difficult at times.
BUT you are missing the point of my question and we are going in circles.what if you definately knew. what if you really did get divorced and your husband married the ow. then what? I am not trying to be nasty or make you miserable I have a point to my questions. please think hard, go deep inside yourself. what would you do with your life?
I do get your question and I don't think it makes me miserable. I would accept and just keep doing what I am right now. Living. Doing what I want, what I like whith whom I want and especially just being a mom to my kids ! Hopefully one day, I would also like to work, whether it is charity work or proper work, I'll see, and I like that I still have time with the kids whilst they are little and therefore time to think about what I would like to do. Life is still full of possibilities. I do not believe that stops if H stays away.
I am a positive person, who tries to learn from what happens in life. This too has taught me.
And actually...your question has inspired me.
happy,
If I may chime in and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I have an idea I know what you are asking.
Ok, you have gone through this difficult experience. Now what are you going to do with it. How are you going to move forward. What is it about you that contributed to the breakdown of your marriage and how will you change it. What are your character flaws and what are you going to do to improve those things.
This is not gender specific either. I asked these questions of myself. And I came up with answers. I will pass for now as I have answered these things any number of times on this board.
Now what are the real deep answers. What is your soul searching telling you. And I would like to add that I asked God what He wanted me to do and God told me that He gave me a brain, a body and abilities to figure it out for myself.
IMP
you must have sensed my frustration. thank you. this is exactly what I was trying to say. when I left Allie and the kids she did not sit around waiting for me. she was falling apart but she made steps to improve herself and get out of the house and she took classes and made an effort so she wouldnt get stuck. there were days she didnt want to get out of bed and face the world but she was told on this db place to get a life just in case I didnt return. and she listened. and had I not come home she would have survived and she would have been content and happy regardless. and she stood for her marriage and was considered to be a stander.
I was improving myself when this all began. At 43 years old, I finally was able to go to college and get a degree in Special Ed. I now have a job where I feel as if I make a difference. I have raised my sons and the two younger ones are in college. I have to keep taking classes in order to keep my teaching degree current.
What I have learned from this is that a marriage cannot survive without honest communication and when people let resentment build their interactions become dishonest and unhealthy. I have realized that despite many years of therapy, I was still carrying more baggage from the abuse I suffered at the hands of my father and my first husband. I know that the resentment I felt toward my mother for not protecting me from my father affect ALL my relationships.
I have, also, learned that what I have been missing in my life all these years had nothing to do with my marriage, my job, or my husband. It was the spiritual part of me that was missing. Since my H has left, I have made peace with my past. I have learned to accept the fact that my parents are not going to change and despite the dysfunction in our family there was some love there. I do love my parents and that is alright. I have learned to never depend on another person to be a complete person. I have to do that on my own.
I know that when life seems too much that I can pray and give it to God and a solution will present itself. I am content with my life. There are things that need improvement. There are things I like to do that I can't afford right now but it is more important to me to get my son set up in college and there will be time for me later. I just adapt. Instead of spending money to get a pedicure and manicure, I give myself one. My mom gave me a foot spa and I use it to pamper myself. My insurance pays for therapeutic massages so I get them every two weeks or more often when I can. I am putting color on my wall...the colors I choose. I always hated plain white wall but H is afraid of color, so now I am in the process of painting and remodeling. I am buying used furniture that is in good shape to fill in the holes left when H took furniture. I can decorate the way I want to. I have taken great pride in power washing and restaining my deck.
Wow, I didn't mean to go on but I have to say, until I started typing this, I didn't realize how much I have really grown. I still love my husband and I truly believe that God has a plan for us in the future but that is in God's time and until then He wants me to be the best that I can. I am a calmer person and I can defend myself without losing my temper in most cases. The biggest thing I have learned is that I would rather be "righteous" than right. This is a huge change for me. What I mean by that is that I would rather people felt that I am a good person and that I have been fair with them than to be "right" or prove my point. I hope this is what you were asking but if not it sure felt good to put this all out there.
Thanks,
Happy, Imp, and ANewMe....
Yes! Yes! Yes! (just as Meg Ryan would say it)
ANewMe,
I have been coming here for 7 years and 9 months. I have pissed many people off. But many of those same people have come back to me and said thank you for saying what you said and not to stop spreading my message. They also thanked me for being persistent. Those are the people I post for. And I have never given up on people who were angry or snippy or downright rude to me which includes talking behind my back.
IMP
I am not sure what you are saying here.
Because as you have said I am some mean guy who is a know-it-all.
IMP
hey you said that about me too on cinders thread. and i am trying to be helpful and i am not mean. it is just so hard at times to watch someone spinning in circles and refusing to change their lives because they live in a world of hope. even if your husband came home tomorrow could you honestly say you are the very best person you can be. can you really forgive him?
you know...we have to be passionate and opinionated to be here. makes us a lively crew.
you must have sensed my frustration. thank you. this is exactly what I was trying to say. when I left Allie and the kids she did not sit around waiting for me. she was falling apart but she made steps to improve herself and get out of the house and she took classes and made an effort so she wouldnt get stuck. there were days she didnt want to get out of bed and face the world but she was told on this db place to get a life just in case I didnt return. and she listened. and had I not come home she would have survived and she would have been content and happy regardless. and she stood for her marriage and was considered to be a stander.
Thanks for describing exactly what I have been doing ! A lot of the inner soul search has taken place and I'm sure I'm not perfect, but I love who I am now, I do also have times when I wish I didn't have to get up to this horrid thing that happened, but I do and I end up having great days with my kids and friends. I've done some work, which was good for me too and helped me feel good about myself in different ways, earning some of my own money. And to be honest, the GAL has now been going on for a long time ! Even long enough to realize it is not a factor that has made H come back, and I have accepted it and STILL GAL, because I love it and enjoy it all by myself. You know sometimes there isn't more to dig for...
I may do things a little differently as I am a different person, but it sounds like your wife did all of the stuff that I have found myself doing the past 2 years...slowly, but surely.
Still think it's a good question.
even if your husband came home tomorrow could you honestly say you are the very best person you can be. can you really forgive him?
I do not know. In all honesty. And it has had me wondering, many times. Which in turn made me spin
So I decided a while back, not to worry about it, since it was not something that was even remotely happening. Therefore I live the life I live, for me and the kids and those around me I love, but I no longer sit and wait. I think it's a shame that that does not come accross.
I hope others will give some input too, as I feel I have made this thread a personal explanation place and I don't feel I should need to 'prove' I am living, happily and content. (and just to be clear....I mean this in the kindest way
)
even if your husband came home tomorrow could you honestly say you are the very best person you can be. can you really forgive him?
I haven't been at this as long as many on this board have (about 10 months for me), but my ears perked up at this question. My H is actually still at home, but barely interacts with me at all, even though we still sleep in the same bed. Basically nothing more than a minimal standard of politeness, a couple of sentences of conversation a day, and that's it. I have been struggling tremendously with the question of whether or not I can forgive him. At the moment it doesn't seem to be an issue, because he has expressed ZERO remorse or guilt for his ongoing affair, but I know that if my M is ever to work again, I will have to learn to forgive him and get past what he has done and is doing. I wish somebody would tell me how to do that.
As for being the very best person I can be...well, I'm not there yet, but I'm definitely 1000% better than I was before all of this came down the pike. I have changed for the better in so many ways that I don't think I can even list them all. I am a much more whole person than I was a year ago, despite the fact that what my H has done came within a hair of breaking me completely (long-standing suicidal depression, now under control). I thought I couldn't be happy or survive without H, and I have discovered slowly that I am sufficient unto myself, although I do still need friends and so on. Right now the only benefit I'm getting from H is financial, unless you count the occasional things he fixes around the house (which is helpful, but not a major factor). Everything else I take care of myself or get from friends, and I'm working on becoming financially self-sufficient. I'm infinitely stronger, more compassionate, more independent, more patient, less bothered by the small stuff, and less judgmental. I have WAY more self-esteem and self-respect. I am accomplishing things that I have struggled with for years and years. I am GAL, trying things that are new to me or that I haven't done in a long time. I am becoming more social, and even going to gatherings where I know no one, which is a major 180 for me. These are the silver linings to the horrendous storm.
I do still have plenty more work to do on myself, but I'm not even on the same planet that I was before.
I would welcome your wisdom in advising on my sitch if you have time, especially Happy and those who have been around for a while. I cannot promise to take all advice given, but I will certainly consider it carefully.
Peace,
Dawn
Do we ever become the best we can be? Since the evil one is always trying to destroy our spiritual relationship, I didn't think we ever become the best we can be. That just my humble opinion based on sermons and scripture. I feel as if it is a never ending battle that is easier some times than others.
As for forgiveness, I have mostly forgiven my H, there are a few things that have to do with insensitivity toward our sons that continue to tick me off but overall I have already forgiven him. Someone on here posted the question, would we hold it against our spouse if they had a brain tumor that was causing their behavior and that MLC is chemical as well as emotional illness. As for me, we are taught that we should forgive everyone around us...it is not our job to judge. I try very hard not to judge, it is a struggle for me and was a big part of my upbringing as my mother was very judgmental. Probably why I rail(sp) at feeling as if I am judged.
With regards to calling either of you mean and a know-it-all, this was not my intent...although I am well aware of saying that you were coming across as a know-it-all with no room for other opinions. I will apologize for that because I do not believe you are mean-spirited. However, I do wish you would try to see another perspective and not always behave in a manner that your way is the only way. And IMP I cannot see myself coming back and thanking you for the feeling of being put down. Because in my case and I stop listening or trying to understand someone's views when I feel put down.
Although I thought this was a good question also, I don't like the way this interchange has made me feel and I don't think I will be posting on this thread again. I am sure that doesn't bother IMP or Happy because I sense little respect for me anyway. But I will thank you Happy for giving me the opportunity to reflect on how far I have come and because it does help me get less discouraged about the work I still need to do.
Back on the topic of forgiveness. I truly and honestly struggle the most at forgiving OW because for many years she pretended to be my friend. So part of my prayer time at least once or twice a week is asking for help in forgiving OW.
A New Me, just in case you read I picked up on this
" I truly and honestly struggle the most at forgiving OW because for many years she pretended to be my friend. "
I had a similar situation, OW was someone I knew and worked at same place-kind of.
I think she probably was your friend and not just pretending at the time. Your H is/was equally to blame but somehow easier to forgive because you want him to come home -not sure how that works when your D'ed but it is probably the truth that this woman will never ever be your friend again, so less need/desire to forgive her.
As I said this could have applied to me too.
DoH,
Here's a link back to a short thread started on forgiveness. See if any of it can help you along your journey:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1327458N.
4kids,
Thanks for the link--there are some helpful ideas on there. I have some books on forgiveness that I'm trying to find the time to read. I know this is something I need to do FOR ME, but I'm not to the point of being able to do it yet. I am still bitter and angry and resentful, although I did finally manage to set aside the fantasy of doing a Lorena Bobbitt or killing one or more of the three of us (myself, H, OW). I never mentioned my fantasies to H; I was always polite and as cheerful as I could stand to be, but for a few months after the bomb, he would periodically ask me if I was going to kill him in his sleep, as I had talked to other people about my intense rage and they were expressing concern to him about his continued viability! I stopped talking to the people I suspected about this stuff because I knew they would betray me to him.
None of these ideas about forgiveness are exactly new to me, but it helps to see them nevertheless. Thanks so much!
Peace,
Dawn
OK guys...
Watch what you say and keep the knives(and scissors) away from DoH...
LOL!
N.
being able to forgive someone for betraying you is difficult and hard and takes so much more then just saying those words. it takes practice and it is somthing we have to work on every single day. i know because i am not stupid that there are days when I am acting like a real [censored] and I see the look in Allies face and i know from reading here from you other women that she is reminded of the past.and even perfect Allie has at times thrown the past in my face which only goes to show that even though she wants to forgive me it will take time and I think eventually it will get easier. as you can tell I also have issues with forgivness and even on this site with anonymous people there have been words said to me by people I thought i could somewhat trust who have totally cut me to the core. i read recently on another thread some of the things said about me. and yes some could say I deserve it for how harsh I am with others. but i wanted you to know that my heart is not full of malice and i am not out to hurt others here regardless of popular opinion.
there is no need to jump in and defend other posters just because you dont like what i have said. come to me yourself and tell me. i have apologized before and i am not too proud to keep aplogizing. but i hate gossip even here and when i cam eback here again it was after a long absence and only because I was asked to. i did not appreciate hearing the nasty ugly words from a certain poster who was so qucik to jump in and spew her words in order to make other people look bad. sometimes you gotta hold your tongue and as i posted to someone else recently when spouting off scripture this one comes to mind. EVEN A FOOL IS CONSIDERED WISE WHEN HE IS QUIET.
OK guys...
Watch what you say and keep the knives(and scissors) away from DoH...
LOL!
N.
4K,
Yeah, you never know what we suicidally depressed types will do!
Thanks to good drugs, I can even joke about it now...! Thank whatever deity you believe in for ADs!!
Peace,
Dawn
I wanted to say good bye permanently because this is no longer a place I should be. the heartache on these boards is so hard to swallow and i just dont have to in me to be patient and handholding when I see people spinning out of control and self destructing. I do care but i care way too much to be able to effectively be a help.
cinders i hope your had a good vacation and please be careful when you spend the week with your husband. i dont think it is a good idea at all and i think it will confuse the children and will give you false hope. this is not a contest between you and the ow anymore. your husband made choices for his life.let it go please.but take my opinion for what it is worth. anewme i am sorry if i made you defensive that was not my intent i just wanted you to think outside the box.i respect you for standing for your marriage. i know how hard it is to do but what if he doesnt come back. what then? frank i do know how you feel because i have a sister in law going through a very similar thing but i dont think it is mlc i think it is just a life stylechoice. but again i am sorry if i offended you. bworl i dont like you at all and everything you represent but i apologize for making it public. it is your life to live and i have no business to critique your lifestyle choices.amy c i hope you get your [censored] together soon because you cant keep living like this it is unhealthy for everyone.make a decision and stick to it.i dont know what happened to you but your not the same and have nothing to prove to anyone. your life should respresent the same things you preach about. maybe take a step back and do some real soul searching. you may be surprised by what you fnd out about yoruself.take care of yourself.jack thank you for always being the voice of reason but maybe you should take a break from this place before it sucks the life out of you. dar you have to think about yourself and not your husband he is a mess and you keep raising up your hopes only to be let down. it is like banging your head against a wall. let him go completely. he will know where to find you if he wants to.imp glad to finally get to know you a little better. keep posting even if they dont listen because one day your words will come back to bite them in the butt. FIB I think your wife is so stuck and needs serious help. she doesnt want a divorce. but i understand also that you have to live your life. please pray for grace and understanding when dealing with her. she is emotionally crippled.and RCR i am sorry that things didnt quite work out but i have no value to this place anymore my life is different now and i have to move forwards with it and leave this one behind in the past.I can no longer be a resource to anyone.
Blessings to all of you who are here and I pray and Allie prays that for each of your Gods will will be done.
Happy,
You will be missed.
I will miss you.
and damn.....I was just going to ask you about my "stuckness"
it took me awhile to get up my nerve.
Have a wonderful blessed life with your lovely family.
Hugs,
Jeanette
Happy, you and Allie are always in my prayers. You both were an inspiration when I needed one.
Been thinking about leaving for awhile lately, but coming here is like the guard rails on a mountian road, a reminder of what not to do again...
Someday but not right now.
Bye Happy.
Thank you for everything.
Prayers for you guys always.
I wanted to say good bye permanently because this is no longer a place I should be. the heartache on these boards is so hard to swallow and i just dont have to in me to be patient and handholding when I see people spinning out of control and self destructing. I do care but i care way too much to be able to effectively be a help.
You must do what you know is healthy for you.
Ever heard of the allegory of the cave?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_caveMight strike a note.
Your unabashed advice comes off hard, but many times even the most misguided advice has some truth buried in it. I'm reminded of a story:
http://www.rbc.org/devotionals/our-daily-bread/2003/01/22/devotion.aspxVaya con Dios,
N.
cinders i hope your had a good vacation and please be careful when you spend the week with your husband. i dont think it is a good idea at all and i think it will confuse the children and will give you false hope. this is not a contest between you and the ow anymore. your husband made choices for his life.let it go please.but take my opinion for what it is worth.
Happy you are right. He has made choices and it is no longer a contest. It may never have been to be honest. I cannot cancel the 3 days we will spend in France as a 'family' it would hurt the kids even more, but I will go with all your advice in my heart.
I had a wonderful holiday that showed me there is so much more.
I am awakening and my life is a flower about to bloom...thank you for trying so hard to help us out of the 'spin-cycle' !
Love to you and Allie. May God bless you both.