I was wondering if any of you oldtimers with 18 months -2years or More could share with us how you story finally ended, if it has..
What finally happened and on what timeline?
Did your MLcers ever show signs of regret or try to return?
Can you share some details of what it looked like when your MLCer started to shift toward home
or
if you never saw a shift toward home and if it was you that made the final decision to stop your stand
thanks
peace
Hi peace.
My bomb - July 2000
First came to board - Oct 2000
Divorced - Apr 2001 (no fuss)
My former Mrs. IMP actually admitted to MLC (before divorced). She did show uncertainty for a while, i.e. it was not easy for her to fully let go. As many here said she was making baby steps. But they were baby steps away. It was probably another year after the divorce that I felt she had fully let go. The problem was I hadn't fully let go. And looking back that was not helpful. It is hard to change when you are holding on. You can't spread your wings when you are holding on.
IMP
Hi peace-
I have been at this for 16 months so I am also curious to know if there are LBS's that knew there was a real shift in themselves or a shift in the WAS and when that shift took place. For example, almost 2 years after my first H had left me, I remember having a moment of clarity and deciding that I had had enough. I remember making a conscious choice to move on. Now in my current M, I am sensing my H is shifting toward me but I have no idea if it is for real.
It would be interesting to get different perspectives on this.
Imp-
Was there a point when you realized that you had finally let go?
Upside,
I can't pinpoint a time. From Oct 2001 to May 2004, I didn't have either a steady job or a steady home address. I was doing the stay-at-home dad gig when the bomb dropped. So as I was trying to reestablish myself at work and having a bleeping hard time doing so, then I was laid off as were many right after 9/11.
From then to May 2004, I collected unemployment and did temp jobs. Then the fav temp job had an opening and I was eventually hired in May 2004. Got a steady place in Sept 2004. Cleaned up my finances by the end of 2005.
As you can see I had a lot going on, so it is difficult to say when I actually let go. But getting where I wanted to be did take some time. It was good for me to have to struggle. So while I can't really pinpoint a date, all I know is that when you are doing the best to take care of yourself and working on the things you need and want, you are letting go.
IMP
I have a long crazy story, and it isn't over yet.
Bomb was in Jan 06, A/PA was confirmed Oct 06, she got the boot to the curb and I started DB late Oct early Nov.
I DB for about 6 months and figured that I should give up and move on with my life. My MLCer has shown some regret (I think) with crying phone calls but is still out in left field with non payment of CS etc.
It is over now, I got a D and for me it is what I needed mentally. I am a healthy person now and in a new R for about a year.
Unfortunately I will have to deal with her for another 8 years at least once my kids (I have sole custody) are grown I wont have to speak to her or see her again.
Oh and there is a bizarre shift towards home (or is it?) She has been flaunting herself at me in an attempt for sex recently. It does nothing as she does this almost in front of OM who she lives with and does this with her love child in plain sight.
Bottom line is I am over her now, she needs to get over me!
Hiya Billy!
Hi IMP.
Peacetoday that is a wonderful username. Keep peace within yourself sugar.
Especially through this hellish ride.
When i first came here in March of 06 I posted under Lisset then, all I looked for were stories of marriages that were reunited.
I never even thought to give the other stories a thought.
I have now learned that people that have not "saved" their marriages but have saved themselves are a huge success.
The X left Feb of 06 and we were divorced Jan of 08
Was there back and forths in between yes.
I remember one day he said I need to see you and see the truth in your eyes. He was already well involved with his GF and I went to see him.
I wanted to say to him so badly I love you but I am not in love with you anymore.
Everyone has their own breaking points for whatever reason, or everyone has their own way of standing.
Neither of them are wrong in my opinion. The man I married became and still is someone I don't know. He hurt my children emotionally, that is all I needed to know I was done.
I also had planned on having a different life without him, and I was looking forward to that different life.
Focus on today. Focus on you. Focus on getting yourself back.
If your spouse comes back what a wonderful addition to your already wonderful life.
Lissett
Lissie, your post shows all your beauty ! Love you ! xxxx
THank you Upside Immy and Lawless
It seems hard to make the decision to stand any longer or move on
It seems that here on this board many LBS come and Go
I was wondering what the MLCer picture looks like a few years down the road
ImmY
I can relate to you as my H moved out, and still hangs around a lot to see kids
he seems to take the slowest of baby steps away to really move on
so it is confusing, although he shows no signs of return, he also shows no signs of really moving on
I asked him to file twice and he hasnt
Lawless
I have read some of your posts and have been inspired as your W does seem to show regret, but you are totally done
I wish I really knew I was done
I am still holding on , less but holding
peace
Hi,
My story is long and drawn out as it is not over. When I first came here I dreamt of reuniting. I could not picture a life without the H.
Truth be told, he has never looked back other than a few back and forths. Says he misses me and loves me one day and then the next is as cold as a block of ICE. He started D proceedings but due to finances seems not to be able to complete. I will, for my peace of mind and to regain my life !
If I had any advice it would be to find your own peace. Take steps you make yourself happy and most of all move forward with courage. Things are not always the way that they seem at first blush but, you will do fine as we all have come to ...
Life goes on...Live it and love it.
Let's see
Bomb #1 - September 29 '06 OW#1
Bomb #2 - Jan. 27 07 OW#2
Seperated Jan. 27, 07
H moved back in May 5, 07
H moved back out July 17, 07
H came home Dec. 5, 07
Still home and still going strong and doing good 7 1/2 months of NC w/OW.
BFM
Peace,
Got my bomb in September of 2006 with a failed suicide attempt on my ex's part.
She was never back in the house after that day.
She filed October 6th. Had already had a fling with a 22 year old (2 years older than our oldest son). Left that weekend for her first overnight with a childhood crush, 500 miles away.
Divorce final in December of 2006.
In May of 2007 she decided to move 500 miles away to live with her crush. She left behind a 20 year old in college and a 15 year old who lives with me. She's been there ever since, sees the boys maybe every couple months or so.
They've never married, but I did. In early 2007 I begin corresponding with Debra. In December of 2007, I asked her to marry me, and we were married just last month, June 28, 2008.
My ex has never looked back as far as I know. Things are amiable between us. Most of the hurt is long gone, and I have a great life to look forward to with Debra.
Sometimes they come back, sometimes they don't.
Making plans based on an MLC'er is not a wise course of action. While there are plenty of reconciliations you can read about, there are far more that end. How long you choose to "stand" is something YOU will figure out on your own. No one here, regardless of what they might say, knows any more about your life than you do, and none of them can tell you what to do.
We do everything we can to save the marriage. I think that's a common thread among most on this board. In the process we learn that the best way we can work to save our marriages is to save ourselves first.
That makes you a success no matter how things end up.
Blessings,
Bill
Lissie, BFM, Bworl, and Ever hopeful
thanks for sharing your stories
while many of us have differences , there are also many similarities
no matter what..seems we LBS always seem to come out of this and move on with or without H
that is hopeful
I always sense I will get clarity when time is right and Im trting to push myself there when im not really 100% done here
It is a gamble as many seem to not return,,but again we will get better and find real acceptance in time
peace
Hiya all you Oldtimers - it's good to see you.
I've often worried that buying in too heavily to the MLC 'time-line' is potentially dangerous for our recovery. I'm not even sure I buy into the MLC thing. We all go through changes in our lives - but not everyone leaves their spouse in order to go through those changes.
I'm not sure if it was me or ex who had the MLC or whatever it was but we separated in November 2004 and he had a new lover within 3 weeks. Maybe he had her before that - I don't know.
I started DBing in March 2005, last resorted, GALed and PMAed my heart out for 18 months or so and when he could see me getting on with my life - he got interested and started sniffing around again. He never seemed really ready to totally reconnect and I got to the stage that I realised I just had to finish the grieving and get over him.
It hurt, I didn't want to do it. It was easier to hold on to the hope that he might come back, but it wasn't healthy for me to live with my life on hold in some vein hope that he might metamophis into the man I married when I knew in reality that when people evolve they generally move on, not back.
Having said that - despite him getting married to his lover - I left town about 12 months ago to live and work with remote Aboriginal Communities in the Northern Territory of Australia which is similar work to that I was doing when we first got together and since I've been away he has confided in me that he made a mistake getting married and wishes we could have another chance. He says that if I give him the word he will leave his wife and reconcile with me.
Of course that gives me a good giggle, but there is no way I would ever enter into an agreement like that with him.
DBing taught me a lot about myself and what I'm prepared to tolerate. It also taught me that there is signficantly more to life than being in selfish, myopic relationships based on little more than co-dependence. I'm never going there again.
The thing is - this is not a dress rehersal. This is our life. There's no problem 'standing' if it means you are having a good and fulfilling life, making yourself available for every opportunity life throws your way - and if one of those opportunities is reconciliation with your spouse that's fantastic. I just don't think 'standing' still can ever be a good thing - for saving our marriage or saving ourselves.
You're right Peace - you will get clarity when the time is right. You'll know what to do when it happens.
All the best
Hi peace,
I know you are well aware of my sitch, but thought I'd put it down in a timeline. We read so often that we should not follow timelines, but from my own observations, it seems like A's last and/or couples are either separated +/- 6 months OR around 2-3 years.
11/05: EA starts
5/06: variation of ILYBINILWY
7/06: S after I find evidence of A. H and ogre move in together shortly after. H is confused, very distant, alien eyes. H basically goes crazy deep into replay.
1/06: H says M is over. I start DB, H continues to lie/deny and remains distant.
12/07: H admits to friend that what he's doing is wrong. Somewhat less distant interaction with H over the following 6 months.
4/08: I make a decision to create warm and fuzzy feelings with H when possible (and FINALLY grasp DB concepts), figure out and am comfortable with what I want.
7/08: H starts opening up more, seems more receptive to me. Takes more responsibility, initiates contact more often than previously. Beginning of friendship? (Also worth noting is that his new business has really started to take off, which could be affecting his mood.)
No signs of regret or ever trying to return in 2 years.
I wouldn't call it a shift toward home, but in general, H is more open about most things (except his personal life).
I'd like to think it's the start of an awakening, but who knows. I do know that I am much more at peace with what's happened over the last 2+ years. I'm more confident in what I'm doing and know what it is that I want. I'm also very aware that there are no guarantees that I will get what I want with my H. And that's ok...
11/06 - bomb drop
1/11/07 - stbxW comes home at 3:30 am, admits to OM, but states there was no sex and she would never see him again, but our M was over.
2/07 - Retrouvaille weekend after which the ILYBNILWY speech and move out the next weekend.
6/07 - sell house and move in with friend.
We were intimate on a weekly basis from bomb drop until sale of house. She always denied OM. Snooped like a CIA agent and uncovered all kinds of stuff I never thought possible. One of her friends was asking me what was going on so I told her what I found out (I know - mistake).
9/07 - wife finds out I snooped. We meet for dinner - she says our M is over - we end up kissing and heavy petting.
11/07 - meet to have cell phone taken off her account. Have coffee - I throw out last olive branch. She says she misses my friendship, but not the husband/wife routine.
Later that month I find out from D25 that W has introduced her to the 'guy she would never see again'. I fill out paperwork to divorce w/out an attny.
1/11/08 - she gets back to me and states she would rather have an attorney do the D. I told her to get it done.
3/8/08 - calls to say she is meeting with attny.
D should be final any day. She lives with 'the guy she would never see again'. He had a serious gf and was doing my W on the side. So, not only was she cheating on me, but also the OW. Not sure if she still emails the married guy. She is unemployed and no longer has the company car. My understanding is that she drives one of his cars.
Sorry for the long reply, but to answer your question I would say there was certainly confusion on her part, but I have not heard any regret or apologies.
I tried dating a good friend (I know - mistake). She was (is) great, but we are in different places. She has been divorced for seven years.
As for standing, I, like so many others, wanted a reconciliation, but now realize that will most likely not happen. I still miss her and need to move on with my life - get my finances in order and hopefully get my own place within a year.
Most people when they get back together leave the board.
Thank You Walking back, Sh, JMC and Sgctxok for responding
this is really helpful for me to see it all on paper
WB
many people do sort out their lives without leaving their M and finding a new R usually within moments or prior to leave
I see my H as sick
He is totally not the same
the only connection I see to MLC is that all our spouses are simialr in many ways
2 people on my block have shared with me about MLC spouse and one left one considering leaving
it is everywhere
I am grateful though, in many ways it has been a gift
to get to this place..I dont think I could have in mt M
peace
PT
I am still on the board and I am sure you know my story. H and I have the most wonderful M and R now and I am truly grateful to all those that helped me on this board!
Love to all
Y
Billy and Cookiepants
I appreciate all those who posted
any other Oldtimers that would like to share what finally happened in there sitution would be appreciated?
and what the MLCer is doing are they better,
are they more connected to kids
same or worse?would be appreciated
Thanks PT
peace,
I live on my own and enjoy it. I enjoy my work than at any other time in my life. Happier than I have ever been. My sons are doing well. My ex is still with OM (which really means he is no longer OM) and is happy. We still do some family stuff. Tonight we went to dinner. Life is what you make it.
IMP
all I know is that when you are doing the best to take care of yourself and working on the things you need and want, you are letting go.
IMP [/quote
]
IMP - that actually gave me clarity. I think I am letting go
cagz,
As the old saying goes, if you love someone set them free. Well, at a certain point, I chose to love myself thus setting me free.
IMP
I guess I might be an oldtimer. I've been here for over 3 years and dealing with H's shinanigans for 2 months short of 5 years. What I can't answer yet is what finally happened because it is still in progress.
I don't know the label to attach to H, if it's MLC or a WAH or a guy who just fell out of love or a guy who had an EA/PA or a guy who went on secret spending sprees and shut me out of his life.
We have a lot of acres here with a very small house. H never moved out completely, but we have gone for up to 5 days at a time living together without physically seeing each while sleeping in the same house at night.
I know that it took me a very long time and many many of my own baby steps to journey back far enough to find the person I wanted to be again so I could move forward with my life.
The more I move forward and try to balance that with always leaving room for H to come with me the more positive H has responded. He is doing things again that he loves to do but gave it up for the last 4 years in his own effort to detach from me and the life we built. I have not been very successful in detaching from H or the life we built, I still love it all very much and especially with H in it.
I still don't honestly know how this will finally end, but I maintain hope that H truly is finding his way back and I will be a strong enough person to accept him when he does.
Most people when they get back together leave the board.
.... and the evidence for that is ??????
One of the serious problems with this board is that some people seem to think that if you say something often enough it must be true.
Unless there has been a very sophisticated monitoring and evaluation strategy implemented on this board without me noticing, there is absolutely no way we could know that when people reconcile with their spouse they leave the board!!!
It's bad enough when posters reassure each other authoritatively that "affairs last 2 years" and "she's just a bandaid for his/her mental illness" - it's scary when the moderators start doing it.
Feb 2006: Bomb
March 2006: Separated -- W moves out, in with her mother.
July 2006: W wants divorce
August 2006: We have sex, first "touch and go" starts and ends. W files.
Sept-Dec 2006: 3 more "touch and goes", we have sex 13 more times during these.
Jan 2007: W still set on divorce, I give up and let go. I fall in love with another LBS.
Feb 2007: W dimisses divorce at final hearing. Uh oh! Now what?!?! I reluctantly agree to attempt reconciliation with W as it was the right thing for me to do. OUCH!!!
March - April 2007: I eventually get *my* head together.
May - Sept 2007: We were doing really well until STBXW suddenly turns off like a light switch. She refuses to talk, moves to another bedroom.
Oct. - Dec 2007: Limbo in same house. STBXW spending some time at our other house.
Jan 2008: STBXW wants to reconcile, but makes unreasonable demands -- no agreement reached.
Feb 2008: STBXW wants a divorce ASAP.
Mar 2008: STBXW files for divorce. That's it, I'm done!
June 2008: I move back to other house.
Sept/Oct. 2008: Divorce to be final.
Viginia,
One of the serious problems with this board is that some people seem to think that if you say something often enough it must be true.
I agree. I have seen very few people since I have been here that have left because they are back together with their spouse. I feel like saying that is giving people false hope.
It's bad enough when posters reassure each other authoritatively that "affairs last 2 years" and "she's just a bandaid for his/her mental illness"
This too I agree with. I remember when I first came to the boards, everyone told me their affair wouldn't last long, she was just a bandaid, he would be back around 18 months, blah, blah, blah....Well he has been gone for 2 years now, is still with the ow (2 1/2 years) and I no longer believe she is just a bandaid. Bandaids don't last that long.
I don't want to feed any newcomers with the same bs lines I was fed with because those bs lines ended up making me feel like a failure because it didn't come true in my sitch. Those bs lines are just a bandaid themselves. I am not blaming anyone for feeding me those lines, it was just something that they truley believed themselves because somewhere along the line someone came up with those bs lines. There seems to be no proof to back any of it up.
Viginia it is soo good to see you, and read your posts.
I am glad you are doing well.
P4M, I am sorry to hear about all of this. Your W was the one that wanted the divorce stopped at the last minute right?
Blech.
Good things await!
And hence....IMP's very strong post (can't remember where) on the downside to getting too caught up in the MLC resources offered at the top of the page.
This site is about saving marriages. Period. We all know that, because we all came here to do just that.
But putting forth misleading information under the guise of pacifying the highly agitated newcomers is not the way to go.
MrsH and others are more than justified to ask "What the heck?" when they've been told something over and over again, only to find that it is simply not true in their story.
Many of those resources are extremely valuable in terms of educating people on what kinds of things to expect and what kinds of things they can do to make it through this time. But perhaps its time we emphasized the fact that there are NO set timelines, that OM/OW are NOT always bandaids, that OM/OW are not always low life creatures, and that spouses do NOT regularly choose to reconcile after burning so many bridges.
We don't need to fear truth and reality.
I personally want to KNOW rather than be surprised.
Share your experiences, but don't share statistics that you cannot back up with actual research studies.
The situations that bring us here are painful enough.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill,
But putting forth misleading information under the guise of pacifying the highly agitated newcomers is not the way to go.
Exactly and this is what I feel what happens. I would rather know the truth from the beginning. I know most newcomers (as I was) are not ready to hear the truth but it doesn't mean we fill their heads with misleading information.
However, I don't think all of the info on the MLC resources thread is inaccurate. I think there is a wealth of information on there as well, i.e. Snodderly's work. She shared her experiences and did her research. However, like IMP suggests, don't get to caught up in it, it's a guidline, not a bible.
One of the great things about this site is there are different forums to join. To me, the healthiest being the Surviving the Big D. Most of the people you find over there have accepted the end of their M and are just enjoying life. They may not have saved their marriages but they saved themselves.
I think a lot of the people in the other forums (not all) like the MLC forum may be in denial, including me. We hold onto that little bit of hope, but yet, that little bit of holding on wears us down. I know I for one need to learn to accept that my M is just over. I am almost there but not quite just yet. Maybe when the papers are signed it will help me.
All I know is that I don't want newcomers to be lead down the same path I was in the beginning.
Bill you are right, we don't need to fear truth and reality because in the long run it's the healthier way to go.
i think the hope should be that we save ourselves
when we work toward the goal of saving out marriage we aren't really utilizing what the book was about
the book is about saving ourselves and savving our marriage by doing so
when you realize the goal is saving yourself, being yoru true authentic self, then it makes it much easier to do other work
like
if you save yourself, you find who you are and then the person you are looks at your situation and decides to stand...
you see what I mean
standing has to be a deliberate choice
it can not be something you do because you don't know what else to do because you are afraid
when I really started to do the work to stand for myself, I realized that standing for my marriage would not be the answer anymore. I chose to stop sstanding for that marriage so I could keep standing for me
others have stood for themselves
looked at their situation and decided that in order to truly stand for themselves, they needed to stand for their marriage.
doesn't mean their partner decided to stand
and
it doesn't mean that would stand for forever
it means that it was a conscious decision
and when we make a decision, we realize that the choice may change depending on other factors in the situation as they occur
does that make sense????
the OP is not a bandaid after 2 years and they aren't the OP...they are the P
if you had a besst friend from high school
that you were best friends with for a long time
you love them
they are your friend
then
they started being jerks and they called you names and stole things from you and tried to throw monkey wrenches in your life
would you be making excuses for them 4 years later...
well I know they are still doing this stuff to me but I see babysteps when they are busted and they say they are sorry so I am going to keep letting them do it to me
or at some point would you re-evaluate the situation?
P4M, I am sorry to hear about all of this. Your W was the one that wanted the divorce stopped at the last minute right?
Blech.
Good things await!
Lissie:
Wow, you have a good memory!
Good things do await -- I am confident of that. I am all too happy to get on with my life at this point. Well, in all ways except a new "R" -- that will definitely wait until the ink has long since dried this time around.
Great to see such an open discussion. I remember coming here and reading that MLCer's return nearly 80% of the time. Some certainly do, but it is probably closer to 5-10% based upon what I have seen.
Fortunately, we can detach and save ourselves. Anything beyond that truly is a miracle.
wow, such great posts
the reality is just that-- I think maybe 5-10% return
I am greatful for the changes in me
I am sad I had to lose H to get here
I don not think he will return
In th beginning I thought he would for sure-
I would rather make a logical choice to stand or not based on reality-so I am not disappointed later
I appreciate all of you who shared your stories and welcome any more posters to share
Thanks
Peace
Peace, I said a few weeks ago that I was through posting; but, I love telling my "story" and couldn't resist posting it here. My story is no secret here on the board. It has caused controversy at times, which has saddened me; but, it is a story w/ a happy ending...well, the best chapters are just beginning!
My exH dropped the bomb in June of 06. After which I found out about the many different women in his life. In Sept. of 06, after many months of hell, I told him to leave. I was hurt, angry, and scared; but, with the help of my pastor, friends, family, and, most importantly, God, I gradually began to pick up the pieces of my life. It took me a couple of months and many counseling sessions to realize that I had not been happy in a long time. I realized that I had become co-dependent on my exH and that he was not a loving husband, nor was my marriage a loving marriage. For the first time ever, my eyes were opened to many things.....things my friends had been trying to tell me for years. In Nov. 06, I decided I was no longer interested in saving my marriage. I had become a stronger and better person...and I had done it w/out him.
On Christmas Day 06, I made a new friend. This person was someone who I could be serious w/ and someone I could relax and have fun w/. We developed feelings for one another and decided to see what might come of our friendship. A couple of weeks into Jan. 07, my exH decided he wanted to reconcile. But, he wanted to do it slowly, w/out moving home right away. My "friend" and I broke off all contact (his decision) and my exH and I began seeing each other. The day after Valentine's Day, we spent the day together and discussed plans for our future. He wanted to come home. That evening I got an anonymous phone call stating that my exH was living w/ his boss lady (he had always told the kids and I that he was living w/ a guy he worked w/). I confronted him, he admitted it, but said he wanted to come home. He said all the right words and offered to do all the right things. He came home...for that night. He left the next day and went back to his OW. I knew we were done...more importantly, I knew I was done.
A friend of mine was worried about me (because during all this, I also lost my mother) and contacted my "friend". He e-mailed me. I texted him the next day. We began talking again. We met for the first time in March of 07 and have been together ever since. I filed for LS and in Sept of 07, my exH filed for D. It was final Nov. 13, 07. (In my state, you have to wait one year and one day after the date of separation to file for d.)
As of June 28th, my "friend", is now my husband. My husband is Bworl! For those of you who do not know Bworl, he is a wonderful, loving, caring man, and a devoted father. And, I love him dearly!
Peace, my story may not be a story of a reconciled marriage. But, it is a success story nonetheless. Not just because I found love and marriage again; but, because I found myself, again!
I do NOT share my story here to encourage anyone to walk away from their m. I share my story to tell others that they will be ok. There is light at the end of the tunnel. And, they will be happy again...maybe w/ their S, maybe w/ a new love. The important thing is that they trust in God and in themselves. That they dig down in themselves and find strength and happiness in who they are. That they are someone they can look in the mirror and face each day w/ a smile on their face and be proud.
Some of the many things that I learned through my ordeal was that I do not need someone else to make me happy. My happiness comes from w/in. I cannot control what someone else thinks, says, or does; but, I can/do control myself. And, I learned that I am God's child and no matter what, HE loves me.
So, I apologize for the long post; but, this is my story....can't wait to see what the next chapters bring!
deb
I guess I would say that regardless of what happens, I want to be able to say that I have done my very best.
I have to admit that I have great fear about the idea of reconciling and then splitting off anyway.
I am greatful for the changes in me
I am sad I had to lose H to get here
Good for you peace, sounds like you have it figured.
My story, briefly:
Bomb 5/05 suspected EA, turned into PA
H moved out 8/05
During separation we shared our son, one week with me, one with XH.
H filed 6/06
D final 7/07. We were married 21 years.
S and I moved about 70 miles away, so XH sees S less often, but still regularly. I believe they talk on the phone every night.
Xh married oOW on 1/1/08. His third M. She worked/works for him. We all work in the same place.
Close, long-time friends of ours have repeatedly expressed amazement at how civil we have been about about S and about making arrangements regarding S. I don't really see it as a choice.
As to XH expressing regret, I know he has seemed very confused from time to time, and sometimes was sad, but has never once expressed regret. I don't expect he will. The first time D was ever mentioned in our house was the night of the bomb, and XH refused to discuss "all that" and refused counseling.
I wanted to agree with imp, Mrs H and others about the sometimes misleading optimism. But I still believe the OW?OM are almost always bandaids IF the WAS is in MLC. Drinking is a bandaid, and some people drink for years and years...the fact that the R with the OP lasts for a long time doesn't mean the OP isn't serving as a bandaid.
My XH hasn't spent 5 minutes alone with himself in 59 years, and I am very sure that he needs a bandaid to avoid looking at himself. I am with those who believe that the MLCer must actively work to get out of the crisis, otherwise it just goes into hibernation for awhile and surfaces again later.
Anyway, haven't posted my story like that in quite awhile. Good wishes to you peace, sounds like you are on a sane path.
AH
Thank you for posting AH
peace
P4M, I am sorry to hear about all of this. Your W was the one that wanted the divorce stopped at the last minute right?
Blech.
Good things await!
Lissie:
Wow, you have a good memory!
Good things do await -- I am confident of that. I am all too happy to get on with my life at this point. Well, in all ways except a new "R" -- that will definitely wait until the ink has long since dried this time around.
Great to see such an open discussion. I remember coming here and reading that MLCer's return nearly 80% of the time. Some certainly do, but it is probably closer to 5-10% based upon what I have seen.
Fortunately, we can detach and save ourselves. Anything beyond that truly is a miracle.
I would have to say that based on what I have seen here on this board, the chances of a return are less than 5%. Does this board entail all of the people going through this? Certainly not, but I do think there is enough of a sampling to give us a good ballpark estimate. People who make statements like 80% return, they are a bandaid, it will stop within 2 years, etc. are living on false hope and unrealistic expectations. If someone wants to try to save the M, I wish them all the best, but I think they need to know what they are really dealing with.
IMO people stop posting after years of waiting on a wayward spouse to return because it gets tiring and causes pain when other people here openly criticize people for staying in a M.
Is a timeline important?
How do you know how long to wait?
If you had power of attorney and a high school friend was laying in a coma on life support, when do you decide to pull the plug?
The next day? the next week? in a year? in 4 years?
Who can decide to pull the plug on a M except the 2 people involved? Live and tolerate until you can't, then change what you have to. That change is different for each of us.
Guidelines are great, it does help to have some kind of timeline to compare too. We have to remember that it is just exactly that - a guideline - not a textbook that every sitch adheres too.
It seems like a lot of stories are that the WAS wants to reconcile, but the LBS has moved on.
I joined this site on 07/04/05, just a couple of weeks after WCW. When I think of all the people who joined around the same time as us and the people who posted to me and I to them... almost everyone is divorced and has moved on with their lives and left this site. I wish more of them would come back and tell us how they are doing.
I do not feel I am your typical DB'er. My H has dropped several bombs over the years, but has never actually left me. Along the way this became more about saving my life than saving my marriage. I started seeing a counselor in June of 2006 and it took a year before I could see how it was helping me. I was dead and didn't even know it. Over the past year I have faced the abuse I suffered as a child and reestablished relationships with a lot of family.
I was able to stop snooping and became very good at detaching (although I am no good at explaining how to do so). At this point I think I could easily be a WAW. It would be the easy thing to do. BUT I believe in marriage, I believe that God made this marriage and now that I am awake (or alive) I think it is my job to do the hard work to make it what it should be. But at some point my H will have to join me in that work. Only time will tell if we are up to it.
I need to tell some one this and I don't have C until Thursday....
I have a confession to make: I loved a boy in college and he loved me. But I was not able to tell him what my life at home was like. I let him believe that I chose not to see him rather than tell him my dad was an abusive alcoholic who at times held my mom and sister and I prisoner. I know that he married at some point and has at least two children. Luckily I have no idea where he is, because I have been letting my imagination run wild this weekend with thoughts of contacting him. Which I know would be disastrous and wrong! My family is gone this week and yesterday was chick flick day for me. I watched a movie called Evening and bawled my eyes out. It didn't take long to realize that I was crying because all the feelings I had long ago buried about that relationship were surfacing.
So anyway I am counting on you all to keep me honest here. I am a VERY good detective, but the good Lord has been protecting me by not allowing me to find any info on this guy and I am very thankful for that! Thank you I needed to get that out.
It seems like a lot of stories are that the WAS wants to reconcile, but the LBS has moved on.
breton,
That's interesting, because as I've been reading this thread, the feeling I got was that the LBS "waits" in vain and the S rarely returns. Of the few that did try to return, I got the feeling that they just weren't ready.
Goes to show how we all interpret things differently - probably based on what we are feeling individually and what we want/need to see/believe at the moment.
NNP,
Whatever you had with the guy you loved in college is just a fantasy. He didn't even know the real you. As you said, contacting him will only bring trouble. Keep those thoughts in your head or here on the board.
I have to agree that I can think of very few stories where the MLC'er or WAS wanted to come back but the LBS either refused or had moved on.
I can think of more reconciliation stories.
And as far as percentages, I think everyone pretty much guesses. My "impression" after being here since the fall of 2006 is that there are not many reconciliations compared to the number of people who come through here.
But as others have pointed out in the past, even if the chances are just something like 5 or 10%, I think just about all of us would be eager to do the work to try to be in that group.
Bill
We read the OP is merely a "bandaid" but I'm not so sure. As I've read these posts it seems OP play a larger role. I notice some mlcers who attempt to return go back to the OP, others marry the OP. I have often thought the X and I could reconcile if OM wasn't in the picture.
Three months post separation now X said she was thinking about going back to me.
Five months post separation I declined to meet with now X because we were fighting so badly. She became angry saying I had "blown her off" and she had wanted to talk about "us."
One bit of confusion along the way was that she told me she needed to be divorced because she had never truly been on her own, was abused by those close to her and she needed to heal. I don't know how much of that was true and how much was BS.
She has never called OM her boyfriend, but says they are "dating." Pictures of him go up and down on her nightstand.
She is interested in doing things with me but once said she doesn't want "to get my hopes up."
She seems to be thinking again as she initiated a R talk last week.
It makes sense they can't "get back" feelings for us while they actively have feelings for someone else.
Does anyone see a correlation between the longevity of the relationship with OP and the rate of return to the M?
It seems like a lot of stories are that the WAS wants to reconcile, but the LBS has moved on.
I am sorry to say that you must be reading things I have missed for the last 2+years. Very, and I mean very few times have I read stories like that on this board. I grant you that every once in a great while someone will come on here with a story like that. Unfortunately for the vast majority of people here they are LBS with all the responsibilities of a former marriage, including the lion's share of raising children, keeping a house, trying to payoff debt accured by the actions of the WAS. Plus all the pain and B.S. that goes along with it. Yeah, I know some people are going to say that I am over dramatic and that "karma" will come back to get those WAS who do those things, well, I'm sorry to say that I have seen very little karma in the time I have been here too. Bottom line is this, our society has no bounds nor limits to the actions of people. The prevailing philosophy is; whatever you want to do, don't worry about other people or children, do what YOU WANT to be happy. Until that attitude changes, don't expect actions to change.
Interesting thread and POV. I have joined the BB in 01 and lurked for a year or more before that. I was D in 03,H left in 2000. He was having an A. He married her in 05,they are still m.
We had been m 31yrs and tog for 40ys.
I know that all the people who started with me are D. Bar one(as far as I know) her h had been living with ow 6yrs then. Several of them were ardent standers, religious people who knew God had told them their m would be saved. They no longer post or return. I know of 2 who do not because they are embarrassed/ashamed. I don't think they need to be either but thats how they feel. I guess many more feel the same.
Like others I have seen next to no posts of waw's wanting to return and the lbs not wanting it. I have seen lots of reconciliation attempts that eventually fold.
I agree with the poster who said that too many stats are given out with no substance, just they are said enough times they become true.
I was told ow a bandaid, affairs last 6 mths etc. I still read posts that call ow all the names under the sun and say it wont last means nothing etc but after 4 + years I think I would be thinking maybe ow does mean something.
We all have a limit. I would go one step further and say financially we all have a limit.The long term standers I know of including the one who started with me all have h who have been able to run 2 households so maybe never had the need to go for a D.I hardly call it a marriage but again each to their own and had I been financially able I may have not gone for a D and still be alone and waiting in limbo (standing).
If your H or W is of an age to be in MLC it is a whole different ball game the difficulty lies in the fact that lables are so easy to hide behind. Like reading a medical dictionary we all have some if not most of the symptons.
I guess the beauty of this site is the hope it gives us but more importantly the help and hope it gives us to find ourselves and begin again.
Deb and Bill have not been the only ones to find love on the bb. They were not given an easy time by many posters but they have always posted honestly and give amazing advice.
I am always saddened when I read new posts as so often they are not many years into a marriage. They have problems that are not MLC but so often the same posters get given the same stats as to OPs etc.A while ago a poster was obviously being physically abused and was in fear of her H, I told her to get out and take her child with her with no discussion, others advised changing her behaviour,taking her vows seriously etc. She stopped after a couple of posts. I still wonder what happened to her.
Giving hope is a good thing but we have to be so careful when we only know one side. Giving false hope is irresponsible but we can only speak from our own hearts and experiance.
Wow this turned into a ramble-sory.
naej, That was an excellent post! There is so much truth in it.
As you and others have stated, I think the times that a WAS returns to find the LBS is not in favor of a reconciliation are few and far between, if at all.
In my sitch, my exH's attempt to reconcile was only because things weren't going well w/ OW. In my opinion, the reconciliation was not an honest one because he never really left her....he made ME the OW in their relationship (w/out my knowledge). Luckily, for me, I had grown and had opened my eyes to many things. Yes, his leaving the second time hurt....it bit bad; but, not for the same reasons as before. The second time, I truly felt dirty and used. My self-esteem, which had finally started to return, took another big hit. But, I knew the second time, that I would be ok and I had developed a deeper and stronger relationship w/ God. The "fighting" I did the second time was a personal fight within myself...for ME, not for the marriage.
No one has mentioned the "scars" that are left as a result of a WAS/d. There are some. And, how we deal w/ them is very important. For me, trust is a VERY big issue. I do not like secrets or lies. I am very blessed that God brought Bill into my life. As I stated in my previous post, he is a very loving and caring person...not to mention trustworthy and honest. He has been very patient w/ me and has helped me look at things w/ "new eyes". I still have "demons" that like to make their presence known from time-to-time; but, I am learning how to deal w/ them. If something does bother me, I am able to talk to Bill about it and, if the need be, we work through it together. Love, commitment, and communication...how can a marriage survive without them?
I have learned so much these past couple of years. Lessons learned the hard way. (But, I have grown so much, too!) And, I hope and pray that through those lessons learned I am able to be the wife that God wants me to be....the wife that Bill wants/needs me to be.
naej, I hope you are doing well! Thank you for your kind words!
deb
I should clarify: maybe the WAS doesn't go so far as to *state* that they actually want to reconcile.
But there often seems to be a time when they do seem to drop hints, moves towards XLBS, and express regret and go through a process of re-evaluating the past R. Sometimes this is at a point where reality has intruded on the happy OP/WAS couple, or where some other life event has made the WAS realize what the LBS had to offer.
It seems that by that point, the LBS has had it and is not satisified with hints and baby steps and a few expressions of regret. They don't want to throw a bone, or they do and the WAS's response is not enough, and the door is closed.
The WAS doesn't know how to fix the situation, or maybe doesn't have what it takes, and eventually slinks off, sometimes with the OP but it seems just as often without OP.
And it seems that LBSs seem to fare better than the WASs regardless of what happens, perhaps because they are forced to evaluate themselves and their lives.
"Out of Left Field" Percy Sledge
Here's one for record; X and I had a few sessions with a C at bomb, joint and individual. C related to me in a private session that X told him, "I'm going to divorce ______.......I'll probably marry him again one day." C added the caveat that he was certain she would divorce me and "pretty sure" she would marry me again (he believed what she had told him).
Now waiting for the other shoe to drop.
"The waiting is the hardest part" Tom Petty
breton, I understand what you are saying...I do think that at some point and time, the WAS probably does feel a sense of remorse, and maybe even loss, at what he/she has done.
When my exH first started talking about a reconciliation, he said that he had noticed changes in me and that he liked those changes. For me, however, those changes meant that I was no longer seeing him through the rose-colored glasses. I was seeing him for who he really was.
I especially agree w/ your last sentence...I think that very often the LBSs do fare better than the WASs. My exH married his OW. He does not seem to be any happier w/ her. In fact, my kids tell me that he talks just as ugly and hateful to her as he did to me and he is still drinking. This is a sign to me that he is just not a happy person...at least I know our m failing really wasn't ALL my fault...lol. I, on the other hand, am very happy w/ my life and I am excited about what the future holds for me/us!
deb
I wish there had been a thread like this when I joined the board in 2005.
I bought into the oft-quoted "80% of MLCers return". It gave me a fase sense of security that H would eventually come home.
The MC I was seeing at that time told me that H's 8-month affair was on its last legs based on the 25 year age difference between them. She also said that affairs rarely last beyond 36 months.
So I waited it out. And waited and waited. After almost 2 years, I was sick of the humiliation and filed for D. It was granted last Fall.
And the affair that should have died of natural causes is still chugging along. It has been going on four years now.
H has finally quit telling me how unhappy he is, how he wants to "unload" the OW, and how we are not done yet. Probably the only honest thing he has admitted is he is afraid to be alone. I never gave him any guarantees that I would take him back, and he knows that the OW (a fatal attraction) will never leave.
Ah, Val, I wonder if that's what I'll see: H continues R w/OW in order to not be alone and to have someone to contribute to expenses and to be his loyal admirer and person to control.
I think H treats OW with disdain, based on fragment of conversation he left on answering machine by mistake. I pick up resentment and frustration w/OW. Unfortunately this hasn't translated into any softer feelings for me, although I would add that I have had more respect in the past few months.
But again....interesting that YOU moved on and X chugs along with Moss (what I call her cause she's clingy).
Breton, if you want to stand for your marriage until you die, that's your business and I wish you the very best in getting what you want. I do think that you should prepare yourself for the fact that it might not happen. I think sometimes you reach for things to give you hope to keep on fighting, and I understand that, don't think I am putting you down or making fun of you for doing that. I think its admirable that you would have that kind of committment to your H and personally I think he is a fool for doing what he is doing. Remember this, you or anyone else cannot make anyone do anything, they must want to do something for themselves. With that being said, I think your H's course is obvious and you are going to have to let him run it. Will it be successfull? Well, to share some more stats with you, probably not. Looking at the D's for 2nd marriages, its above 60% nationwide. The success rate for affair based marriages is less than 5%. Is the D or failure of that relationship immediate? Sometimes yes, often times No, but it does happen in the MAJORITY of the cases. In saying this, does the WAS try to return to his or her former spouse? Probably not, why you ask. People aren't going to admit they have done wrong, that's just the way we are wired for the most part. I have personally seen this one too many times, they would rather live miserable and try to make people think they made the right choices all along. Sad thing is, people in general could care less.
I 100% agree that the vast majority of WAS would rather live miserably and try to make people think they made the right choice.
My XH made a huge production of introducing the young OW to his family and friends while throwing me under the bus in 2005-06.
His conscience must have finally kicked in because he called his mother in January 07 and told her that none of it was my fault .. it was all him. He called me the next night and admitted the same thing. It was the first of many late-night calls breaking down and expressing remorse.
Did it make a difference? Not in the long run. He's still with OW. My SIL says H really is unhappy, and he has stated he will never marry again. Apparently OW is okay with this, so it's easier to stay in the mess he has created for himself than do the work to come home.
Sorry to thread jack
HI VAL!!!!!!
Y
Hi Twin Friend ..
I'm still lurking, and still enjoying your success story!!
Val
"I do think that you should prepare yourself for the fact that it might not happen."
Yup, I'm well aware. I even accept that it seems that it could be "probably will not happen," given H's lack of interest. He doesn't look happy but he makes few if any moves towards me. I can't do anything about that. I've tried to be kind while holding clear boundaries.
And so I am livin' my life. I'm in a much better place than I was when I came here.
I don't want to sound as if I am all pollyanna. If I had to generalize, it seems as if most of the time the WAS does express regret and remorse at some point--years later, even--but getting further along than that seems to be difficult. Not impossible, but certainly difficult.
This is directed to nobody but it applies to us all.............
Here goes............
I have (had) a MLC XW
Just because the D is done doesn't mean the drama ends. Beginning a new R won't stop the drama either. The whole thing as Figgy says is detach and let the chips fall where they may, All of us have been there and done that (ever see a post and say wow deja vu?)
So boil it down, either stand or move on...........
Each road has some holes, you gotta go into it with eyes wide open.
standing is torture, dating after standing is torture.
Get to know yourself and most of all love yourself. Keep your boundaries and enforce them.
It might seem funny but after dealing with the aftermath of MLC (It's all about them) We need to go into (it's all about us)
I am totally sceptical about statistics concerning D. So I take them all with a pinch of salt in truth it is impossible to collate that kind of info on the scale needed to get any accurate results.Also just how truthful would a person be when answering?
So if 50% of first marriages now fail and 60% of second marriages fail and affairs burn out after 6mths. 80% of mlc ers return and it last 6mths to 2 years. Whilst walkaways rarely marry the affair partner Who is marrying who?
Not trying to be cynical here just confused and also am I missing something.
Not even going to throw in the God hates D and restores the marriages of those who believe and pray x,y,z, prayers into the equasion.
Just for the record I am a believing christian so not knocking anyone for their beliefs.
PS I should have added that I have been wondering these things because I have never met anyone in 8 years alone who is single or not just exiting a marriage.
Maybe it only applies to people in my age range and for those wondering it is the "old" range. Gosh I even filled in a questionaire that didn't have me included! maybe all my contempories died.
55yrs+ is all I am saying or admiting too! lol.
Thanks all for posting
I am getting alot from everyones experience
peace
I am totally sceptical about statistics concerning D. So I take them all with a pinch of salt in truth it is impossible to collate that kind of info on the scale needed to get any accurate results.Also just how truthful would a person be when answering?
So if 50% of first marriages now fail and 60% of second marriages fail and affairs burn out after 6mths. 80% of mlc ers return and it last 6mths to 2 years. Whilst walkaways rarely marry the affair partner Who is marrying who?
Not trying to be cynical here just confused and also am I missing something.
Not even going to throw in the God hates D and restores the marriages of those who believe and pray x,y,z, prayers into the equasion.
Just for the record I am a believing christian so not knocking anyone for their beliefs.
I hear ya on the stats thing. Stats can be manipulated for sure, but I would say that the divorce rates are pretty close, simply because what I see everyday in my job. I deal with kids and parents, trust me, divorce rates are super high. Why you do see people entering and or exiting marriages is simple, your age. I'm not throwing off on you by saying that, but people over 55 are either in a relationship, widdowed, or been burned enough times to not even fool with it. Also people in that age bracket don't seem to get out a lot to meet people, for the most part. I do know some folks in that age bracket I would love to be like if I am fortunate to live that long. Also, men of that age group tend to find younger women to court. I know a lot of what I am saying is hardly scientific evidence, but I think that is the way it is.
Hi Braveheart
Why you do see people entering and or exiting marriages is simple, your age. I'm not throwing off on you by saying that,
Not too sure I understand this.
I didn't mean to imply that all the people I meet are exiting marriages just that given men in MLC are usually having affairs but we are told they don't last and they don't marry them but someone is marrying them for there to be a 60% failure of second marriages.
Most of the men I know or have read on this site via LBS posters have m their ow. Maybe have not put my thoughts very clearly.
I smiled at you saying we over 55yrs lot don't get out much. My kids complain I am never in!. I do yoga, dance clases, craft classes and church activities(not always a laugh a minute) plus social invites. Theatre and parties, drinks etc. I just don't seem to connect although I do have fun, Maybe I am just not ready or not trusting enough. I am not unduly worried what will be will be.
I consider myself very lucky to have had 30 years of happy marriage and brought my children up to adulthood in a loving and stable enviroment. Thats a whole lot more than many people have in a lifetime.
I certainly agree on the men wanting younger models! Pity they don't know what they are missing, there is alot to be said for fine wine.
Hi Braveheart
Why you do see people entering and or exiting marriages is simple, your age. I'm not throwing off on you by saying that,
Not too sure I understand this.
I didn't mean to imply that all the people I meet are exiting marriages just that given men in MLC are usually having affairs but we are told they don't last and they don't marry them but someone is marrying them for there to be a 60% failure of second marriages.
Most of the men I know or have read on this site via LBS posters have m their ow. Maybe have not put my thoughts very clearly.
I smiled at you saying we over 55yrs lot don't get out much. My kids complain I am never in!. I do yoga, dance clases, craft classes and church activities(not always a laugh a minute) plus social invites. Theatre and parties, drinks etc. I just don't seem to connect although I do have fun, Maybe I am just not ready or not trusting enough. I am not unduly worried what will be will be.
I consider myself very lucky to have had 30 years of happy marriage and brought my children up to adulthood in a loving and stable enviroment. Thats a whole lot more than many people have in a lifetime.
I certainly agree on the men wanting younger models! Pity they don't know what they are missing, there is alot to be said for fine wine.
Now I clearly said that not everyone over 55 was that way, I also said how much I admired the ones who did! Anyway, I do think that you would have to admit that many, if not most in that age category do not go out a lot. At least its the experience that I have seen. Older men do go for younger women, I think its a mortality thing, same for older women going for younger men, a growing trend I might add. As for the WAS marrying the om/ow, I am certain you are correct. I do want to point this out; How long have you been on the boards? 5,6,7 years? How long have these people been married to the OP? 3,4, maybe 5 years? The story hasn't concluded for those people yet. Give it another 2 or 3 years and look again at the survival rates of those marriages. I would wager that they will look like the stats I quoted.
Hi
Well last night- H served me
I asked him to many weeks ago, but thought he wouldnt do it
I still believed my old H was still in there
and he still loved me
now
I only see this shutdown man
he looks as if he is ok with it
why is he ok--he feels nothing---
while I have had nothing but extreme pain today and last night
I am on my way to D land
this is my last bit of holding on here comes the rest of the grief
I guess I needed this part to really let go as fig said
cant hold on and let go at same time
I gave it all I had
I sensed it was over
I am very sad
to get those papers
like a knife and the things he asked for so uncaring
a cold and caulous man
peace
Peace I am sorry.
It is hard and surreal at times.
Hugs for you and be gentle to yourself for a long while.
Do your homework on the D stuff, if you haven't already, in time, when you can catch a breath.
Here may come the rest of the grief, yes, but also here may come a new and wonderful you.
HUGS lovey
Peace, I am sorry. It hurts I know. You will get through this and go on to better things.
Take some time to grieve. I actually didn't feel to badly when it came down to it. Maybe I had done all my crying before hand and in away it was a relief to actually stop the second guessing of his every move.
Take care.
Peace,
I was very sorry to read your posting. Whether you are prepared for the papers or not, it hurts like h@ll. No one wins when a divorce takes place. Do your homework, look at this as a business deal that you need to take care of.
Peace, cry, grieve, do whatever you need to do to come out the other side. Once the dust settles and you are able to see a little bit more clearly, you will come to realize that you were carrying a stressful burden. If the divorce does go through, the burden will be lifted a bit and you will begin to see the light of day again, but it will be gradual. Be kind to yourself during this time.
We are all here for you.
(((((((((((((((Peace))))))))))))))
You are in my prayers.
Y
Thank you for all your support- I am OK
he made the decision that i was struggling to make
Now I believe I need to let him go
100% this time
If he would like to return and I am still up for it..then yes
if I see no sign of wanting return
I have to go
from reading all your posts here..I realize the return rate is so low..I did everything I could to save my M and im so glad I tried..I gained growth and hopefully taught my children M is worth saving
If any other oldtimers would like to share what finally happened
please feel free-- Your stories have been inspiring
I have enjoyed reading everyones posts
peace
Hello Peace and everyone else who has posted here...
First I want to tell you, Peace, I am truly connected to your feelings, I am crying so hard because I am close to the same place you are in right now. Only I will have to file on him because he won't do it. That will be instigating something I do not want but for my sanity and closure I feel I must take this step soon.
My situation timeline:
H and I meet in 10th Grade at High School - 15 years old.
H and I engaged to marry - Christmas Day 1982.
H and I set Wedding Date on Christmas Day in 1983.
H and I marry 4/84.
H and I have S in 5/96.
H meets OW on 8/7/05. (I learned this later on in affair.)
H tells me he is leaving me 8/16/05. Claims no OW just that it's time to call it quits on us.
H moves out and begins 3 year separation slowly from 8/16/05 through 9/05. Takes rest of clothes out on 10/29/05.
H left home to move into our company building and H still calls that home, it is 6 miles from our house.
H and I have no contact except at work from 9/05 to 1/3/06.
H and I ML for first time in separation on 1/3/06. H and I have ML regularly between 1/3/06 and 7/11/08. OW does not know we are still together in this way. (One of us would die if she found out.)
H and I work together in company we started from 3/1/83 - 3/13/08. H replaced me at company with OW Best Friend. My last day in my own company 3/13/08. H continues to send me my salary. When he talks af company's future I am not included at all it is all mine, me, my, etc... We incorporated in 1995 and I became a 50% owner...thank god I covered my A$$ back then, I would be in a world of hurt now if it was still a sole-proprietorship as originally set up!!!!!
H and I had no contact from 3/13/08 - 3/29/08.
My work separation has left a huge hole in our relationship, it is creating an unhealthy distance between us. We are becoming strangers to each other and it is an obvious feeling to me and I believe he feels it as well.
H has made frequent contact with me from 3/29/08 until last night. H and I have ML 14 times since 3/29/08. Last night he came with the mail and had supper with us but didn't stay.
In the last 206 days H has seen S 30 times.
H did not call OW GF until Fall of '06. H is still with the same OW. OW lives 1 hour away. OW is a hard core macho biker b***h. (I am the total opposite in looks and personality.) I have described myself, H and OW in some of my previous posts.
H told me on 12/31/06 he loves OW and does not love me.
H does not want to D and won't discuss it w/ me. I think it is because he does not want to lose financially only. We are fairly well off.
H doesn't give S any attention to speak of. I feel H has grown distant with me over the past 3.5 weeks since 6/28/08.
I am now getting very angry and restless. I feel our sitch is hopeless. H won't leave OW. OW will never leave H, she sees $$$$. H doesn't think I will file either. H feels I will wait for his almighty decision. H has confidence he has me right where he wants me. I really think he will be a very sorry man very soon.......
I gave it considerable thought today to call the attorney for an appt. I actually called H to tell him I needed to talk to him and he wouldn't pick up phone let voice mail answer me. I left a different message something very trivial about S instead.
My problems have always been love and loyalty to H. I want my marriage to work so bad. I want him home. I think I have to face the truths:
H would be home if he wanted to be.
H doesn't love me or respect me.
H doesn't give a rats a$$ about me or our S.
H is living a very selfish existance in a me, my and mine world.
H will not give up OW and has even said they are making plans for their future when he is mad at me. Their affair has lasted 3 years on 8/7/08. It is not the typical affair I think they really want to be together, so I might as well disappear.
H is making all the wrong choices after 3 years that would make a reconciliation possible. I do believe all he has done is throw me a bone to pacify me at the momment so I will not upset the apple cart. This means he is controlling all involved for his own gain.
I can't sit by much longer while the OW and her BFF run my company with my H.
I don't want this to go into another year with my life on hold. I will not date another while I am married to him. My S and I have suffered in pain of the loss and abandonment and neglect that my H has dished out to us and we don't deserve it.
I am, along with several others on this BB, struggling every day every hour with what is the right thing to do and when. I feel I am carrying the burden for myself and my S. I parent him alone and have for the past 3 years. There has never been any visitation set up and H has been free as a bird to come and go as he pleases with OW without the responsibilities of a child. My S was 9 when my H left us, he is now 12.
My H and I have been married now for 24 years and have been together for 29. I think of it has a huge failure. I do not want to go down the D road. I really don't think I have a choice anymore though. I can't move on while I am still M to him.
I have the books DB and DR. I have had one DB Coaching session with Jody. I have paid for 2 more but will probably never call to use them. I think it is too late for us!!!! I feel these tools are not really designed for marriages that are in such dire trouble as mine. This would have been a perfect tool in the first 6 weeks of our separation. Thinking back to behaviors and conversations, I could have turned this around then but not now with the teachings in the books and the coaching.
Thank you all for listening.
Sanderika
(( Peace ))
No matter how long we are on this board, its still sad when hearing of someone who is starting the D.process.
I take it that you were not expecting the papers to come? I know how that is, I too was blindsided, by the bomb, out of the blue and then again w/ the D papers , when I had pleaded w/ him to tell me if that was going to be the route he chose. He did not. Surpise!
To tell you it will be all right sounds like a broken record, but the reason people tell you is,--- it IS going to be ok.
I am 2 yrs post D, over 6 yrs bomb- and I love my life now! I am engaged to a wonderful, terrific man. My S , a young adult now respects me, and we have a great R.
Never ever would I of thought it, and I fought for at least 4 yrs for my M, kicking and screaming to D court, I loved my H with every thing i had and like yours he was aloof , cold and robotic.
Well, I do not know if its because I have let the anger go, I have forgiven him ( although he didnt ask!) He wants to be friends, he is friendly, nice, and really enjoys talking to me now
This from a man who acted like I had cooties 6 short years ago-- I have no idea what they go thru, I think mine is coming out of his MLC- but he told our S he is not really happy, and he feels he is a A** for hurting me and now is hurting OW , because you see, she wasnt the answer to his happiness either. Go figure!
You will be ok Peace, and you know, I do think eventually they do pop out of it, years and years later sometimes -but most do and then, well it depends where you are in life, for me, it would of been too late, I now know I deserve better, and he is somewhat "stuck" w/ OW.
Keep coming here tho, either mlc or surviving,just because the D papers are signed, you still can gain a lot of knowledge, love and support here.
((( Peace)))
Sanderika, Use the sessions as DB C can get you through a tough time.
Sounds like you're at ultimatum time.
Sanderika
I know how you feel..this limbo is so difficult
Your H seems to cake eat
hard to make the choice..I know I didnt want H to file really
but
I needed out of here..I am still processing all of this..i need more time
You will make the choice when time is right
Karen
Thnaks for posting here
I am always haapy to hear LBS sucesses even if it doesnt include H
Good luck in your new R
peace
Hello Peace,
Just thought I would check in on you and see how you are doing today.
I have been thinking about you for the past few days now....
My H was here this am for 4 hours only to spend time w/ S on a dirt bike he bought him 60 days ago and this was the first time he came over to do anything with him with it. He left abruptly with just a "see ya later". I stayed away from them both for the most part. I wish he had not come at all. I would be better off right now having not seen him. All it did was remind me he doesn't want to be around me. I know if I decide to file my S and I would be better off.
I need to find the courage.....
I truly hope you are feeling well....
Sanderika
S
I am sorry you are in pain today
My H just left here as well
Yes, It is difficult to see them--
It would be easier not to
but for the kids sake--it is better for kids to be friendly to H I believe
I know the decision is hard
I am still struggling with it
and I see H seems so carefree ..like maybe the decision set him free for the moment
Give yourself time to process it
meditate,exercise and try to take care of you
peace
Just caught this title and decided to post. I used to post here daily from 01 to 05. Now I post under Suviving.
Peace: I am so sorry that your received papers. There wasn't that much drama surrounding it when I finally got divorced. It still hurts so much and I just want to reassure you that life will go on. And you will be ok.
My bomb was Aug 01 when H was arrested for DUI and told the cops his M was over and he was going to kill me. OK - there's my drama! I was totally in shock. Did not know about OW (maggot and yes, I'm fine with name calling - I call a spade a spade). But cops told me not even to pick him up as I was in danger. Of course he sobered up but I kicked him out. Then I found out about maggot who was cheating on her H and they moved in together. Then I found DB and wanted to save my family.
I became the poster child for DB so to speak for app 2 years. I bought into all of it. And I really, truly believed that he would come to his senses and come back to me. If I did everything right. I don't think anyone should be making these kind of assumptions or throw statistics around because in my experience very very few saved their M.
Anyway, got a call and I have to run. But suffice to say that after 30 years together (25 married) and 3 kids - I have NO relationship with ex at all. We never speak. He gives as little as possible and does it in a nasty way always. I divorced him 3 years ago - he didn't want a divorce, but he married maggot right after. I don't have any idea how they're doing and do not care. I think they deserve each other.
I have a new man in my life and we've been together a few years. I doubt we will get married. We do not live together. But I love him and he enhances my life.
Oh - my life. Is great! I can do what I want when I want. I love my job, have a great R with my kids, lots of friends and travel a lot. I wouldn't change a thing.
Not trying to take away anyone's hope but I don't think anyone should have you believe it will work out and to keep hanging on. Life is for the living.
I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I wish you all the best life possible.
Barb
Thanks BD
Actually I think Im feeling more hope now from those who post they moved on as I sense that is going to be my choice as well
Thank you for your post
Hi Peace:
There are some things that we have absolutely no control over. And we have no control over MLC walkaways. And usually, once they got to the point of leaving, they don't come back. Sure, some of them pop back and forth a few times before they leave for good but usually, they know when they go out the door that it is a done deal.
And we can yell and scream and beg and whine and cry. I did it all. We can go dark and do 180s and try to focus on other things but the truth is - you have to go through it. There is no way around it. I wanted to skip the pain. I wanted to mend things with a bandaid. But there was no way to do that. Instead, I bled all over the place. I hurt and cried till I ached. I honestly know the physical pain of heartache.
And I was afraid. Afraid of the divorce. What it would do to me financially (it's not pretty). What it would do to me emotionally. What it would do to my children. What it would do to my family and friends - I felt there is a real stigma to being "DIVORCED". It was NEVER what I wanted. And I tried everything to save the marriage but it was not within my power.
Someone wrote here that they want to keep on standing because they want to know they did everything they could. I felt that way too. And take comfort now in the fact that I did. I did do everything. But I couldn't do it forever.
OP might be a symptom of a problem or a bandaid in the beginning but when they've been living with your spouse for a year or more - they're real. And they're the choice your spouse made. And you can choose to stand, but it is far easier to choose to GET A LIFE!
Now a lot of people equate GET A LIFE with start dating and get into a new R. But that is really not it at all. I know lots of people from this bb who I believe have truly moved forward and have GAL. But they are not dating. Some are not ready. Some choose not to. Some don't feel they need another person in their life. So I just want to point out that moving on doesn't mean moving on to the next R.
I was terrified of dating, having married my high school sweetheart. I just could not imagine me getting out there and meeting someone. Kissing someone. Getting into bed with someone. Horrifying! Ha!
It was my kids who actually encouraged me to get back in the dating pool. They could see that I was lonely. So eventually I tried it and I didn't die from it. I was amazed that someone would actually want to date me. My self esteem was in the ground after the person I trusted most in the world had tromped on me. But guess what? Several people wanted to date me. And it wasn't so bad at all. And I even started to enjoy it. And then I met a very special man and the rest is history.
I write all this because I want to reassure you that we all felt as you do right now. We all could not imagine re-writing out lives - if you're like me - you already knew your plan. But you had to rethink it.
But change can be good. And the choices to be made are your choices. You'll be calling the shots now. And take it from me. If you aim to make the best life possible for yourself - you will.
Good luck with it all. You WILL get through this too.
Barb
Hi BarbieDoll,
I want some advice I can work with here...
I LOVE WHAT YOU JUST WROTE TO PEACE!!!!!!
My H and I are (were) High School Sweethearts. We have been together 29 years and married 24. (1) S12.
I am 35.5 months into this separation. My H left and had OW in the wings 1 week prior. H is still with OW. H & I started our own company at 19 years old. H kicked me out of my company on 3/13/08 and put the BFF of the OW in my job. OW has been on the payroll ever since as well. I still hold 50% ownership in the corporation. H sends my salary every week, covers my gas, health and car insurance and cell phone.
I should add: My H hated me when he left and now we are friends. We started to rekindle our friendship in Jan. '06
Well here I am 4.5 months later...sitch still the same as March. H and I last ML on 7/11/08. H has come and gone numerous times over the past 3 years...never moved home would just spend a night here and there we never go out for fun or as a family. I get shot down if I ask so I don't.
H told me on 12/31/06 that he didn't love me anymore and that he loves OW. At this point in time I don't see the R with OW ending. I have posted my whole story on other threads...I would like you to read them if you have time.
I like what you just said to Peace...Her sitch hits home with me. I want to move on but I AM SCARED TO DEATH. I have never been with anyone except my H. I love him very much. I guess I have to realize that H has moved on and I am not in his future plans.
When do you know it's time to file for a D?
How do you approach H?
In DR, Michelle describes "a last resort technique to the LRT",
Should I implement that completely before I file?
At this point H will not file so is waiting futile?
H doesn't want to implement a D for several reasons IMO:
Financial
Security
As long as M won't have to permanently settle down w/ OW
Cake Eating
Lazy
OUT ON A LIMB....
Maybe he thinks we still have a chance
Maybe he is working through his MLC in his own time frame and
he plans on returning....I DON'T KNOW!!!!
H will be 45 in a week and I will be 45 in a month....I am tired.
I wonder If I file will I be happy. Peace and I are at a crucial point in our lives and decisions are hard to make. When you have put your all and everything you could have possibly done to restore your M fails and your H is still being STUPID!!! where do you find solace? Does a D really bring solace? Does a D bring more years of pain? I am hurting so bad just like so many here. I really can't go further, or can I?
The OW in my sitch IS A GERM. I HATE HER. She has continued to date a M man and flaunts it all over the place. I know my H has been a willing party to the A. HECK, I think I am the mistress and OW is the wife on most days!!!!! IF THAT ISN"T BS CRAZY STUFF. I know my H feels he is chating on her when he is with me. Being M 24 years is a long time. HECK we have had more sex in the past 3 years than we had in the previous 3 years to the separation. GO FIGURE!!!
Please help me....I am at a crossroad and I need to go left or right soon.
THANK YOU SO MUCH,
Sanderika
BarbieDoll,
Did you file for a D or did your H?
I read hear that in some cases a M is saved in the LRT just from filing and the WAS realizes his blunder and comes home.
Do you believe this can happen for me if I file....or am I in this at a point of no return. I mean is my M too far gone?????
I would really like to converse with you...If you please,
Thank you,
Sanderika
Hi Sanderika:
I'm going to post a short response since I have to go out and won't be back till later in the day. But I will respond fully at that time, promise.
We were in similar situations as I was with H 30 years, married 25 when he left. And yes - I don't care what anyone says - OW is a parasite. A horrible piece of crap.
Your situation differs from mine in the fact yours is coming back for sex. Mine never did. He did move back home one time. But it only lasted a week.
I will be glad to answer all your questions and offer the best insight that I have. But first - I want to ask you a few more.
Do you REALLY feel that you love this man with all your help and want to be with him despite all the horrible things he has done to you?
Can you really, truly forgive and forget if he did want to come back and have a fresh start? This is a personal thing - I thought that I could. But I know now that I was wrong. I would NEVER have forgotten. It would have hurt and haunted me till my dying day.
When he comes back and uses you for sex without going out or doing things as a family - how does that REALLY make you feel?
Sometimes it is so important to give ourselves a reality check. One thing you have to consider is this:
If he REALLY wanted to be with you - he would not still be with OW. He would be with you.
One more thing to ponder:
Is fear holding you back from moving forward???
Please think about these things. I will check back later and respond to you more fully. But I'd like you to take time with your answers first.
Have a good day!
Barb
PS: I am happy that your H is being financially generous. Mine was NOT!
Thank you Barb.....
I do love my H with all my heart. In my heart I know we belong together and I truly believe we are soul mates. I have had to overcome so much of what he has done already. 35.5 months is a very long time. Things have happened in the past 35.5 months that I won't even touch on because it is water under the dam now. I have stood by him, stayed to support him and have been faithful to him because of my deep love for him. This man is inside of me. He always will be.
In my heart I have forgiven him for all of this, I look at this as something H had to do. Right or wrong H has to go thru this in his life, it's too bad I am down in the well with him on this MLC rollercoaster. I hold no grudge against him. I verbalize this every morning before getting out of bed: "I forgive my H for what he is going to do today". My only hope is that we will learn from this and grow in experience and in turn we will reunite in a more loving, compassionate manner. 24 Years M is too precious to throw away. I still believe that he loves me but is still way too caught up in this MLC to see/admit it. After being together 29 years it is not in the realm for me to D.
If my H comes back and I can be certain the OW is out of the picture and there is no contact I can be fine. I am certain that H will not come back if the OW is in the picture. OW is an all or nothing type. I will never forget about this as long as I live whether we reunite or not. If I forget this happened, there will be no lesson learned and the marriage will not survive. I am however a very disciplined person and this sitch will never be brought up by me, and that is more than a promise. I currently never speak or throw inuendos about the OW to my H EVER. IT is a taboo in my world.
Sex with my H is wonderful. I never turn him down so I am open to the idea of it even though I know she is in picture. After we have sex I am enlightened and filled with hope that we are not done with our M. It keeps our friendship alive as well. I do become sad if I have not been with him as is the case right now. I have not been with him since 7/11/08 and frankly I am worried about this funk he is in now. I analyze it and wonder why 24/7. It does leave me wondering if, for instance, this past time (7/11/08) will be the last time. I know there is OW (GERM) and it is always possible that her hold is growing.
Another thought (this one is strange for me, but I will be honest) is like this: "THERE YOU OW-GERM, YOUR BF ISN'T FAITHFUL TO YOU AND YOU ARE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESERVE, YOU DON'T DESERVE BETTER". I have various versions of this idea. OW does not know we have been together sexually between 1/3/06 and 7/11/08. One of us would die.
It hurts that we don't do together or family things. I won't say we never have in the past 35.5 months but it is very infrequent and it doesn't amount to much. I have learned to accept this for now and I know it is because of the OW. H can't be seen with me for fear OW will find out. Very small town here.
I know that H would be home if he wanted to be here. MLC is still ruling. For some reason, and this is what I am trying to figure out, H comes and goes in baby steps and OW gets the lions share of quality time. I have said that H told me he loves the OW. I keep the hope that H will realize he already has what he wants and that is his life with me and S12.
I will again be honest.....I am scared to death!!!!!!
I do not want to be alone anymore.
I do not want to parent S12 alone anymore.
I want to grow old and retire with my H and be Grammy and Grampa with my H together.
I do not want to risk going down this road again. My heart is so broken from this that I will not risk it again.
I am financially secure so money is not a fear.
I have parented alone for 3 years...I know I can do it I just don't want to.
I am very responsible and independant and self sufficient, It is not a need but rather a want to have him back with us.
I truly do not want to move forward without him.
I understand what I want right now he does not...That is what makes me scared and sad. I want him to want me, us, home. It is not that I need him to want me, us, home.
I rehearse in my mind that I should file for a D. If I file it is me taking the risk of getting what I don't want. I rehearse all the time that I will simply tell him: "I do not see a reconciliation is possible for us because of your choices. I can not bring us back together alone. I am going to file, as a courtesy I would like you to choose the manner in which you are served the papers. I wish you well, I will always be respectful towards you and I will be your friend. The only thing I ask in return is you have respect towards me".
I am at a crossroads for sure...the fact that the 4th year is right on the horizon actually is not a satisfying thought at all.
Thank you for your advice....
Sanderika
Hi again Barb,
An update from a friend. Apparently the OW has given my H an ultimatum. It was handed out last Friday (7/25/08). I HAVE HEARD THEY FOUGHT ALL LAST WEEK. Ow told H if he doesn't end the M and file for a D immediately she is done with him as of today (7/28/08). The friend is a very reliable source. H went to his best friend for advice of what to do on Friday nite or Saturday morn. H best friend told him to go home and that if it were him he would be getting home and telling the OW to take a hike and get out of here. My H best friend and his wife were my best friends too and now we are very good friends. These people really want to see us back together and have told my H so many, many times.
I saw H on Sat. I practiced detachment but was polite, kind and friendly. H was here with S dirt biking and I let them have their time. He appeared to me to have something on his mind.
Very interesting....I know my H and he doesn't take ultimatums from anyone....can't wait to see if she has more clout than everyone else. What will happen??? I may get my answer without having to make any more decisions.
Sanderika
Hi Sanderika,
I truly hope he decides to come home.
As to the title of your thread, I often hear stories of mlcers who decided not to come home but are miserable and regret it for the rest of their lives.
Maybe we could have a "World mlc Day" where we all sit around and visualize them coming home.
Naw, too new ageie.
Hi Sanderika!
Wow - that's an interesting development. Of course you need to remember - believe half of what you hear. Don't count on anything happening. I know that in my situation - the OW could get away with things that NO ONE could. And H, with his addiction to her, just let her get away with it.
That said, I truly hope it will happen for you. Best to do nothing - just wait and see.
I was going to post a long reply tonight but I have been extremely busy. A friend with a crisis, one came for a visit, repeated calls, moving furniture - among other things. This is the first time I sat down since breakfast.
But I will reply further. Be sure to post any developments.
Good luck!
Barb
Hi Sanderika:
OK, to answer you the best that I can.
First of all - everything you do should be because you choose to do it. Listen carefully to your heart and mind. Nothing needs to happen fast - you've shown that it has gone on for a long time. It seems to me that your H likes keeping you dangling. I don't think that is fair to anyone involved but it is what YOU think that counts.
You have made it clear that you can forgive him and want more than anything to restore the marriage. How long can you continue in the manner you are in right now? Indefinitely? It is really not healthy but I can see why you are doing it. I do not mean to put down what you are doing as it is a very personal situation.
Let me tell you about Annette Miller.
Annette used to be a regular on the MLC bb in 2002 - 2003. She had 3 small children. Her H had OW. He even took her baby sometimes and had OW feed the baby. It made my skin crawl! He had moved out and in with OW and was gone for a year. During that time, he came back to visit the kids. And have sex with Annette. Regularly. It made an interesting situation. And we all thought she was nuts to put up with it. I could not understand how her emotional side could take it. I know it was not easy. But she felt the sex kept their connection going. She smugly felt that she had something over OW. I worried about STDs for her. Many here kept on her about his "Cakewalking" and how long she could keep it up.
Annette is one of the success stories from this bb. I met her in person during the height of the problem. But her H came back. And they finished building their new house. And as far as I know (she stopped posting) they are still together today.
Now, not everyone's story ends the same way. But that means maybe your story won't end like mine either. But if you really read my threads - Lemonade Stand etc under Surviving, you will know that I am also a Success Story. Of a different kind.
Because Success is really about making the best life you can for yourself. And sometimes we come to a fork in the road. And sometimes we have to jump hurdles. And sometimes we have to take a detour. Or take the road less travelled. Or navigate uncharted territory. And sometimes we find gold at the end of the rainbow. Or sunshine after the storm.
I just don't like to see anyone held back by fear. Because we have all been there. And we were all terrified in the beginning. I was a frightened small animal when I first came to the bb. Don't touch me - it causes me pain. Don't tell me what I don't want to hear. Let me cling to false hope - it is getting me through all this.
Sandrika, and others - don't believe any promises about your marriage being restored. There are no guarantees. But that doesn't mean it won't happen either. Just don't waste your life waiting.
Limboland is not an easy place to be in. But we all made a stopover there. Some of us decided to stay a while before deciding where to head next. It is not the place to live forever. But - there are many things you can do while you are in Limboland. You can take up a new hobby or rekindle an old one. I did both and I have found a whole new world of fun and friendships with mine. You can go out with friends. (by the way, being unavailable at times while you appear to be GETTING A LIFE is good - makes your H wonder what is up and maybe you are MOVING ON). Try to find the things that used to bring you joy. And do them again. DO NOT DATE before you are ready. And people who are trying to save their marriage DO NOT DATE. I made sure I was long past wanting to save my M before even considering dating. And then I waited even longer. If you're not ready - it won't go well anyway.
I know that some marriages are saved. Most, by the time they get to DB are beyond saving. But who knows which ones will be the exception rather than the rule. I just don't believe anyone should tell you that if you do everything right - your H will "awaken" and return. IF that's the case, after 7 years, my H is still dead. If you know that it is not likely, but still possible that yours might be the marriage that is saved - then you decide how long you can do it and what you will put up with.
Just consider more than one road. And don't let fear guide you.
Barb
Hi all.......
Well Monday came and went and I have not heard another word.
I am going to sit and do nothing.
I have thought a lot of the conversation H must have had with his best friend (my source is not this same friend by the way, he is one of my bosses).
From what I know and I am an expert on my sitch, I do believe that my H was talking to his best friend for advice on what to do. I think he wanted to hear again his best friend telling him to go home. His best friend has continuously and repeatedly been an advocate for our reconcilation. He isn't afraid to tell him every time he sees him. I know this is true because the wife of my H best friend IS my best friend...She would never lie to me. She and I have a huge relationship and we are always candid with each other.
Another thing my H best friend tells him repeatedly is: "I warned you guy...don't fall in love with your GF".
NOW in some strange sense...Out on a limb (maybe), I think my H tells him he loves us both and doesn't want to D me. I think my H talks about all of the good things around here and tells him he likes what he sees here. According to best friends wife, H tells his friend that he can see himself coming home now and I think that has been a part of the conversation now for several months.
I AM NOT GOING TO GET MY HOPES UP.....I told my boss yesterday that I think he will pick her. My boss said "no way".
TIME WILL TELL -
Sanderika
Hello Sleeper....
I know my H:
HE WILL BE MISERABLE IN TIME
OW is very Confrontational, Controlling, Insecure, Jealous, She is a Kling-on. She calls, texts, chases him down 24/7. My H can't breathe. She is constantly on his case about something.
It is my H ego that loves OW. It is the outside package he sees right now. OW true colors ARE beginning to shine through that "made-up" wrapper. I have described her many times in these posts and there is a description in this thread a few posts back.
I wish we had a support group up here for people in my sitch.
Thank you for your comment -
Sanderika
Sanderika:
We posted at the same time. I just don't want you to miss my post. Have a good day!
Barb
Thank you Barb...
I appreciate every word you said.
I understand the consequences of each of the roads in front of me.
I am searching for the answer.
The questions I want answered are probably only going to be answered in time, perhaps even a long time from now.
Do I continue to stand?
Do I file and go?
Why is he standing?
Why isn't he filing if he is already gone?
What is keeping him from returning, really?
What is keeping him from filing, really?
Is status quo enough for all of us?
I have a lot to think about and it helps to talk to you all. I wish I could get a sign that would light up in neon and flash rapidly in front of my eyes pointing to the solution.
It is lonely and disheartening in limboland. It hurts like h*ll. I feel so bad all the time and am tired of having to buck up and be brave and strong. I want to be free. I wake up with little change to look forward to. One day in my life is really just like all the others. Yeah, I GAL a lot but my life is the same, if you know what I mean and I am sure you do.
Thank you Barb, I appreciate you...
Sanderika
No worries, Sanderika.
I wish you the best with the choices that you make. It is not nearly so cut and dried as those who have not walked in our shoes might think.
It has been my experience and listening to others that the WA does not often file for D. Often they don't want to be "the one". Mine had been living with maggot for years. Then when I finally said ENOUGH and filed so I could get peace and not worry he was going to screw up financially (he was prone to it) - he said to the kids "Just remember - the divorce is what your mother wanted". No, I NEVER wanted a divorce. But I was not willing to share him with maggot forever either.
I don't think he wanted to be free to marry maggot (as he did). But he had no recourse once divorced. She had divorced soon after leaving her ex. But she had emotionally left the M long before.
I don't think they want to be the bad guy. I don't think they want to do the work. And like us - they worry about the financial outcome of the divorce.
In your case there has actually been mention of him possibly returning. I had not heard that for 3 years by the time I filed. So maybe yours will. For your sake, I hope so, as long as he will make the changes necessary in order for your M to survive.
Barb
Barbie
What is the R of your X and OW
They are M
Is the R good..Is X happy or do you know
Im just wondering what finally happens to our spouses after we are gone
yes, It seems we become happier, and better people
and them??
Peace
Hi Barbie,
I am also curious about Peace's question.
Is your X and the Maggot still happy? How long have they been married?
I am quite sure you are correct about my H in our sitch. He does not want to be the one to file. He definately does not want to be the bad guy. I am quite certain I am his "Safety Net", as long as he's married he doesn't have to marry the GERM.
Financially this could ruin him and all of his future plans. He does not want his finances to take even the slightest hit. I was the one who managed all the money. It is what I do and I am actually quite a whiz with it. I DON'T MIND PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK HERE. My H has complained since he kicked me out of my job thathe never has any money any more. Cry a River to Someone Else, I say. It didn't have to be that way BUT that d*mn GERM has him fashionably wearing a choke collar with a 1' leash.
OH NO......the OW-GERM is at my company building where H lives. Just got one of those famous neighborly reports. My heart is pounding rapidly and I am instantly nervous. Maybe they didn't have their R - Ultimatum Talk yesterday and it is happening now. OMG OMG OMG I all of a sudden feel very scared. It is very uncommon for her to come down here in the middle of the week. OW lives 1 hour away. I need to breathe.
Going to go clean a closet or something to get my mond of this fear.
Sanderika
Peace - I was sad to read that you were served. I don't post anymore - lack of time, moving on, etc. But you were so good to me when I was struggling, that I try to follow your situation when I can.
I know that you weren't really expecting this and I can't imagine what you must have been feeling. Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.
Hugs!
Millicent ("waiting" no more)
Hi,
I couldn't imagine living with maggot. Totally controlling, manipulative - H can't do anything for himself. But you know - I'm not so sure there is anything wrong with their R. But I have no way of knowing. They have been married 3 years in Sept.
Sanderika:
She obviously upsets you very much. I found that the less I knew about them, the easier it was on me.
Very tired tommorrow. I'll catch up in the morning.
Barb
Hi, my x has been m to his ow for 3-4 yrs gosh I can't really remember. Is that good?
He told his d he is happy.
Sanderika: The less you know the better as Barb said. We have all had derogatory names for the OW at some time or other but what we see or hear is not what our husbands see so it doesn't stop them going ahead and marrying them.
My x actually told me he would never marry again and had no wish to D, a few months before he did.
OW spent night with my H. She is still there.
naej, I know you are right about what he sees. I know it is something wonderful to him, why else would he be with her.
It still hurts that H isn't apparently seeing in me what he once did.
I hate this place.......
I have a window to the world most LBS don't have. It is hard not to hear and see it all as it is happening.
I can't even imagine the day right now that H marries someone else.
Heck, I can't get beyond the day to decide to stand or file.
I can't imagine him coming to me and handing me papers after all this time either.
Barb,
YES...YES...YES...OW upsets me.
I always accept the information in whatever form it arrives. To me "knowledge is power".
I know it keeps the wounds raw...I should be dead right now with all my wounds.
I am still standing.....I just wish I knew what the outcome would be.
A friend of mine says "We cannot know the outcome, it is part of our journey on this earth, we don't have the right to manipulate our lives based on the outcome and that which does not kill us makes us stronger".
I just noticed this thread again - very interesting commentary and subject matter. I have found the statistics to be interesting as well, even remarrying the ex-spouse (I have seen that happens anywhere from 6-18%, though for me the 18% seems high).
I have also seen that affairs typically do not last more than 24 months, and those marriages between affair partners end in divorce 85% of the time within 2-5 years.
Despite all these stats, I personally know of three people who left their M and married the affair partner. One woman has been with her affair partner 15 yrs w/3 kids together, another woman has been with hers 7 years and just adopted kid #1, while a guy I know left his W+3kids after ~ 13 yr M to cheat and then marry his secretary (10 yrs his senior and not a looker). I would guess my W has been living with her OM for about a yr, and I have phone records that would indicate a relationship going on 2 yrs (also uncovered another EA, possibly another A, and casual sex last summer while on a 'girls weekend'). On the other hand, I can not think of any reconciliations.
Regarding the casual sex with the estranged spouse, we did that for 7 months post bomb (5 of those she had moved out). It was great, and although I was suspicious I could not confirm OM until after we sold our house last June, after which there has not been more physical contact. There seem to be different schools of thought regarding this topic, and who knows which is best.
I am a little suspect of some sites that have a lot of un-named testimonials touting the return of WAS.
Hi JMC,
Thank you for the comments.
I am probably going to be one of those that doesn't reconcile, my odds get worse every day. 6-18% chance is not good.
After 35.5 months of separation without any filing, I feel that there is reason to still be hopeful. Add our friendship and sex life and it adds up to more hope. Our sex life has been fairly steady for the past 31.5 months.
We have not been together now though sexually since 7/11/08 and I am very fearful OW is working him over very steadily now to file. A friend told me just stay in the back seat. Let OW nag and control and rant and rave and nag some more....H will not put up with it. When H comes around continue to be friendly, respectful and loving. Let him know the door is still open. Use actions in front of him as proof and not R talks. He is sick to death of R talks right now most likely. Men react to action and not to emotion.
Again I am probably spinning my wheels. My car is running out of gas. OW is going to fight and fight some more before she goes down.
I personally know of several marriages that reconciled and at least 2 that D and then remarried. I have to admit I might be making a time record for separation though in the ones here I know about. I do actually find several posters on the BB that have reconciled and some long timers are showin promise now after 3-5 years apart.
I live with hope but no expectations.
Sanderika
I live with hope but no expectations.
I guess I can say the same thing Sanderika. Good luck to you.
I personally know of several marriages that reconciled and at least 2 that D and then remarried.
That is good to know and provides some hope.
Millicent
we do miss seeing you around the boards
it is a year now for you
hope you are well
peace
any other oldtimers care to share where there MLCer is now on the journey?
still with ow .alone..in new R
do they seem more stable..less confused
peace
Sanderika:
YEs, I understand totally. I wanted a crystal ball. I needed to know the outcome but that was not to be. You can only live one day at a time.
Just remember that sometimes they don't tell us how they really feel about OW. Or they keep us in Limbo Land because they really don't want to hurt us. And everything they do hurts us so much. And they can't stand that. But wouldn't you rather know the truth than to go on forever like this?
As far as Knowledge is Power - yes, I used to think this too. Until a fellow DBer spied on her H with OW often. She read all his emails and his VMs. It has been 7 years. She STILL does it. It hurts her and keeps her from moving forward. So, I'm not sure its the right thing to do. It's like opening a healing wound. And you keep bleeding.
Maybe your informant wants to keep your hopes alive because that is what you want. Just think about that.
Barb
Hi Barb,
Another informant last night told me that my H and his OW were going on vacation next week together, actually are leaving tomorrow. Told me that they are going to a national motorcycle rally 2100 miles away from here.
I called my H left him a voice mail and confronted him with the info. I told him while he was gone I would be filing for a D. I asked him to call me back and tell me how he would like to be served. I wished him well. Told him to have a happy B-day, a wonderful vacation and a happy 3rd anniversay. Told him I loved him but that wasn't enough anymore. My S12 would be well taken care of and not to give him another thought.
My H called me back denying the vacation. (I know he was lying) Told me if I wanted a D to go for it, might as well. H said it's been 3 yrs and he can't live like this anymore. Said he has watched me carefully and has noticed all the changes and differences. Admitted he has feelings for me. Said it was a hard question to answer whether he loves me. I asked if he wanted to marry OW twice. He emphatically and loudly said NO each time. We talked for an hour and then got cut off. I haven't heard from him since.
I was waiting for a sign. My sign arrived and I took action. I am sick to my stomach today. I hate the way this has happened. I can't back out now. I am going to make the appt. and move forward with that.
My H will be a very sorry man. I know he is not happy and I don't imagine this will make him any happier either. I know OW is a demon and OW is going to destroy him.
Thank you for your advice.
Sanderika
Sanderika:
I'm so sorry to see you hurt this way. But he has been stringing you along all the time. He is lying - you know that. And he may very well marry OW. At this point - it won't change your situation that much, although, I have to say that at the 4 year mark when that happened to me - it still hurt and was upsetting.
Don't tell him to leave your son alone. He needs to see him and to support him. Regardless of all the stupid, inconsiderate things he has done, he is still your son's father and nothing will change that.
You are angry and unfortunately reactive. You said things you might regret later. Try to think things through in a business-like manner if you can. I think your H showed you his true colours and while you had your rainbow glasses on - you couldn't see that.
Do what you have to do at this point. you don't need to file. You can stay this way forever. But - I have to say that once I got divorced I started to live again. (don't equate "live" with new R) There are many ways in which you grow, change and start to live again with or without someone new.
I think you were reaching this point any way and this was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. Nothing has changed on his part. Only your expectation had changed because of what your "informant" had told you. I still think the informant's info hurts and doesn't help you move on.
But keep posting to let us know how it is going. I wish the best for you and hope you can be really strong right now.
Barb
S
My H filed a few weeks ago--I told him too
Maybe BD Is right, they string us along..they dont want to hurt us
maybe my H knew he was really done for a while,, this was after many months of emotional connecting and talking..supporting him in every way I could
I was surprized he Filed after how hard I tried to be there for him and how we connected emotionally- like never before in pour M..
Iniially I was very sad.Now I feel it is the right thing and the only way out of here for me
I saw my L
I am pleased with what L said
I still do care for my H
he visits all the time
and we are connecting again but this time I see the connection as a way to keep the peace for the kids sake
I will not wait for him any longer
I am finishing up my grief so I can move on
I can clearly see my H is not willing or wanting to work on our M
I gave it 18 months
You might wait and pray for clarity
you may need more time
maybe you will see a sign
he didnt seem to want you to file..but how do we know what that means in MLCer language
good luck
I hope you find some peace today
Peace
Thank you Peace,
I do not feel any better today.
I do not want to do this, I haven't made a call yet.
I really don't think he is coming back though, so don't know why I haven't called.
I can't figure out his mind. One day he is here for me and the next or several next he isn't. I do not think he wants to D. I still don't know the real reasons why. I want to know the reasons before I file. I probably won't wait for the answers though.
I don't want to feel like this anymore. I don't even have a clear head. I spent yesterday just sitting and thinking and went to bed for 12 hours. I do not feel refreshed. I feel this has become my problem. I feel he doesn't want the problem but would go on as status quo and make no motions himself.
I am afraid.....
Sanderika
S
Im sorry you are in pain
but maybe the pain is good and it will bring you clarity
we cant live in denial and on wishful thinking forever
maybe there needs to be a point when we say no more
but that is up to each of us
I meditate and feel the D is the right thing now
many months ago I meditated and felt standing was right
I always thought H would return
now I am letting go of that hope
I pray H will be OK and not do any further damage to himself, kids or our business
He has already hurt me as no one has ever
its out of my hands
continue taking care of yourself
feel the pain..release it
clarity will come
peace
I guess I would definitely qualify as an old-timer. I first came to the board in June, 2003, desperately seeking info that might help me to save my m. I was careful to only read posts that were positive, or success stories, because I wanted to believe that H would be back. Found a few stories of returning MLC'ers, but not many. I haven't posted for about 3-4 years, but occasionally do some lurking.
Warning: Anyone looking for a story about H returning, I would advise you to stop reading this.
My story is almost the same as many of the others who were posting around the time I was on the boards.
Ex-H left in 2002 for another woman, although I didn't know she existed at the time. He even swore "on the kids" that he never cheated. He did the waffling back and forth, saying he's not right in the head, someday he'd be back, and so on and so on.
He filed for divorce without telling me, so I also had the surprise in the mail.
He postponed the D, and even after it was finalized in 12/04, he sent me a card saying that maybe he'd be back in a few years.
Ex-H is still with the OW, after 7 years. Fortunately, I live a days drive away from the Ex, so I only see him occasionally when he comes to visit the kids. He is not a pretty sight to behold.
He has gained 50-75 lbs, lost most of his hair, and what is left is gray. His mind is still in the gutter. And he is still an a$$ - a liar and a cheat.
Fortunately, I've never had to lay eyes on OW, but I hear she is uglier than sin, and extremely controlling. My son hates her and refuses to have anything to do with her, but the Ex still pulls his tricks, like not warning son ahead of time when OW will be there. The first time my kids met her, it was at a surprise birthday party for the OW. Ex neglected to tell the kids this, so the surprise was on them. Not a happy moment for them. But that's another story.
I am doing fine on my own. I have 3 teenagers - one in college, 2 in high school. They are beautiful kids and doing well in their lives. Ex sees them a few times a year. His OW won't let him spend too much time away from her. She monitors his emails, so our contact is very limited - mostly about money - but that is ok.
I haven't dated yet. The longer I go without dating, the less interested I am in finding someone. Between work and driving the kids around, I don't have a lot of extra time. And I wouldn't know how to go about it, anyway.
So my story will not give you hope of your spouse returning, but my life is good - and yours will be too.
Kaytee
Thanks for sharing your story here
peace
WOW!
((( Val )))
((( AlmostHopeful )))
YAY!
Hope you gals are doing fab! Doing well, myself!
Peacetoday,
My Husband was one of the MLC'ers who came home. My old threads are in the MLC archives.
He has been home now for about 16 months and we are a work in progress.
His Dad died in 2002 and my Husband changed overnight.
I had no clue as to what MLC was and thought his strange behavior was part of the grieving process.
He began to work out, lost weight, dressed differently and had a major personality change.
His "new" friends were half his age and they hung out together.
In September 2003 he received an email from an old High school girl friend and that began a major course of events.
So many secrets, and trips to see his Mother, 3000 miles away, 10 minutes from where his "friend" lived.
He began to complain about me, my appearance, our lifestyle, the list goes on. He was very dissatisfied with our Marriage.
In September 2004 he gave me the ILYBNILWY speech but he was also very attentive and we seemed to be making some progress.
We were talking more but he had become an expert at covering his tracks and telling lies.
December 2004 he decided he needed to Divorce me and move out and get his own life on track. He moved 3000 miles away to start his new life. During the time he was away he saw the kids for a total of 12 days.
April 2007 He moved back home.
Peacetoday, to be truthful, the piecing in some ways was harder then the MLC.
I had become used to living on my own.
I had a routine. I had a budget.
I didn't have to share the closet with anyone.
It was peaceful.
I had learned how to detach, and had to learn to reattach again.
And my patience was tested all of the time.
Yes, there are some happy endings in various threads here, but it is more important for you to consider yourself a success regardless of whether or not your Husband returns home.
Work on yourself, your own issues.
Work on forgiving and letting go.
Don't worry about what he is doing or where on the timeline he is or what stage he is in. It doesn't mean anything.
(((((hugs)))))