H and I separated 1 yr-married 28.Usual classic lines"I love you but not sure we can live as man and wife...Dont know what I want...can you hold the divorce a while...I am in a fog...all the cards in air .".etc etc.weve been in touch regularly and seen each other every 2 or 3 weeks. There has been OW involved but he is equally ambivalent with her.My DB efforts seemed to be working I became his friend and no R talks. But a couple of months ago I blew it and said we (he) had to decide. After that -silence from him for 5 weeks and I didnt pursue. Eventually I texted him to say dont force my hand (to divorce)if you want to discuss options call me .He texted back same day to say he had been feeling so bad it had made him ill and he had been thinking about me etc.Anyway, we are going to meet on 17th to talk about"what we both want" But this is my problem. I retire in 3 weeks and dont have enough to live on.I know that discussing money will not help my DB efforts and I really want to save and rebuild the marriage.He is clearly really guilty,very nervous,still cares but wont commit.If there was any way I could leave him alone-financially and emotionally while he sorts his feelings out I would .Whats the best way to approach this meeting ?its going to be a vital one for our relationship.Last year when bomb went off I fell apart for 6 months and just about faced divorce happening when he asked for more time. Now with the things he is saying I have hope but I have to live- my soliciter says after such a long marriage I would get bulk of house sale,maintenence and split our pensions-Just want enough to live on really with or without him. Still love him so much.Anyone in similar sitch?
A,
As a general rule here, we ask posters to keep to one thread so that we can follow your situation.
I honestly do not believe that your h is actually ready to sit down and talk to you about what you both want. I suspect he's going to tell you he requires more time to sort himself out. MLC takes a very long time to work through and, in a way, you are pushing him to make a decision quickly. If he returns home, he will be miserable and make your life miserable as well. He could then run once again and this time, it would be worse than the first time. Since you are wanting answers to the million dollar question of what he wants, he may very well tell you to file for a divorce. They generally take the easiest way out of any situation at this time.
A, is there any way to do a legal separation? This would allow things to be spelled out and what you could expect in the way of monies while he's off on Mars? If not, he could very well promise you the moon just to get you off his back and then not provide for you at all. Has he been providing for you since he moved out?
In the meantime, make a list of all of your expenses so that you have some talking points when you meet w/your h. Money will be the second "sore" point w/him right now as he is most likely wanting not to share it w/anyone but himself and on his "fun" things.
I'm sorry you are in this situation. It's never easy, but when you have retirement looming in the wings, it does make one very uneasy as to how you will survive financially w/a spouse on Mars. It's going to be a very emotional and difficult conversation unless you can look at the discussion as a business deal and not as a husband and wife that are separated. Can you do this?
Thanks Snodderly not sure how to keep to one thread does it mean just reply to replies about my postings? Did not mean to break the rules but am so confused and anxious.Have actually thought about a legal separation but not sure how he would feel. He is adamant he doesnt want divorce but as you say,if backed into a corner he may. I have continually asked him do you want me to divorce you?No, he hasnt provided for me we are waiting for our (empty) house to sell and in mediation said he couldnt afford it-luckily I found a two term teaching contract to keep me going (im actually on my pension now)but it finishes soon.I wouldnt agree to full reconciliation now even if he suggested it I know it wouldnt work after 25 years of dysfunction ,rebuilding wont be easy.I could never feel its like a business deal but could act as if and think he would respond to that. In fact I am going to suggest we rent a house together for only me to live in for 6 months to give him more time. Thanks for your reply.
A,
Don't apologize about posting to several threads. You are new here and didn't know this. So, what you do is continue to post on this one and reply to the posters who come to visit. Once this thread locks (about 100 postings), you can then begin a new one with a new title, etc.
It's a very sticky situation that you have there. If he wants more time, then give it to him, but with the stipulation that he has to help support you since you going to be retired and that your pension won't be enought to live on. If you don't want a divorce, then don't raise the subject of the divorce again. It sounds to me like he's a very confused puppy and is trying to figure things out in his own way, which is do nothing but stay frozen, so to speak.
Make a list of your expenses and take it to the meeting with him. Be upbeat and whatever you do, try to remain calm and collected. He's not going to be able to handle much in the way of stressors then. If he gets a tad out of hand, just cut the meeting short and let him know that when he's ready to talk, you are available to continue the conversation.
I don't think he's going to go for renting a house in both your names. I suspect he's going to want you to do this w/o his assistance. I may be wrong on this, but when they are like this, they are trying to cut the ties in all areas of life w/us.
Continue to post; others will be joining in soon.
Thanks so much for wise advice. You are so right- all I hear right now is "My feelings keep changing I dont know what I want" I will try to be upbeat and non-emotional at the meeting. He sounded terrified last time we spoke and said he felt so stressed he had passed out recently.I feel so concerned but my fault has always been to organise and "mother" him.My instincts tell me he is beginning to regret walking out-the 5 weeks silence although not long seems to have affected him -we have always been in regular touch -usually me instigating -but Im strong enough to leave him alone now.I think if we are going to rebuild it will be a very slow process- He feels ashamed and so guilty I know. I have been trying to validate his feelings and even his actions and admit my part in the marriage breakdown and that has helped.Am also trying to GAL but its not easy in limbo! Thanks again its 2 am in England as I write this-still have trouble sleeping a year after the bomb!
I am feeling so sick and nervous about our talk on 17th. Dont think I will be able to stop crying- could be the last time I see him. He sounded so scared and anxious on the phone.I think he will ask for more time but the subject of financial support will have to be brought up.Strange, I felt much calmer during the 5 weeks we had no contact at all.But he said he felt dreadful then and it "made him ill" and"dont think I wasnt thinking of you but I felt so bad I didnt know how to call" - all this tears me up- why cant he be mean and cold then I would be able to finally sign the divorce papers. Neither of us seems able to -is this called co-dependency?
A,
It's very normal for the both of you to fill ill about this situation. His is guilt and confusion over what he would like to do, but hasn't gotten up the nerve to do it. He wants to continue holding on to the lifeline that is tied to your apron string and yet be out there exploring the world as a "carefree" man. The depression will also create a lot of ilness for him as he progresses down the path of MLC as well.
You are anxious about what you think will transpire on the 17th. It's normal. When we don't have contact w/them, we are able to regain our balance a bit and pretend that things are going along okay. However, when we know that we are going to have to contact w/them, it will put your entire system into knots. Why? Because the person you knew isn't the same person you are dealing w/right now. Yes, they look the same, but they are going to be the complete opposite of what they were before the switch was hit. It's called the "mirror image". You are going to have to find a way to think of him as the neighbor or a cousin visiting in order to get through this.
Your h can't be cold or angry right now because he's in the very early stages. As he progresses through the crisis, he may very well turn angry when he realizes what he's about to lose, i.e., money, financial standards, etc. As long as the boat isn't rocked very hard, they don't usually exhibit the anger. But, the more you push, the harder they will pull back and believe me, if you pin him to the wall, he's going to come out swinging in time.
Now, you need to try to focus on something other than your h for today. Find a good movie to go see, go window shopping, visit a friend, etc. But do something to help you take the focus off of him and the meeting for just a little bit.
I'm sorry you are feeling sick and nervous about the upcoming meeting. Stay positive, it may not turn out the way you think it might.
Thanks snodderly you sound so experienced! Ive always found the weekends hardest.Im trying to be positive- after all he doesnt want divorce-its just that he wont be with me either! But I am so afraid-I feel that if he becomes angry it really will all be over. For 28 years we didnt fight- everything was pushed down.Is there a pattern to this? He seems to be saying the usual things judging from other posts. How long will it last? Is a year still the early stages?Should I hang on ? I know I should get a life but I honestly feel I am falling apart all over again in this limbo. I appreciate so much your replies.
A,
Take a deep breath. It sounds like he's in the early stages of the crisis. He's confused, not sure of what he wants, trying to figure things out and that crying and sobbing and not knowing whether to call or not are some of the early signs. How long will it take? No one can answer that question for you except God. Each crisis is different because each of is different, raised differently, childhood issues are differently, etc. Some last 2-7 years and others may last forever, if the mlcer opts to stand in the Peter Pan mode for the rest of his/her life. There's no way to tell. That's why it's important that you take care of yourself and act as if he's not returning.
None of us can tell you to hang on. You have to make that decision yourself. If you love this man and had a good marriage, I most certainly would do everything in my power to try to have faith and stay positive about the situation. Turn your situation over to God and allow him to work on your h. The more you contact him and have discussion, the less time he has to focus on himself and work things out.
Now, pull yourself up, dust yourself off and find an outlet for your frustrations. Sitting around worrying about something that may or may not happen on the 17th is only going to make you ill and drive you nuts. One in the family is enough. Now, make a list of things that you have wanted to do, but never had time to do and get started. One step at a time, one day at a time.
Thanks-yesterday was a really bad day- dont know why. I do love him and dont believe in divorce without at least trying which we havent done yet. The marriage was a lonely one for both of us . We loved each other but couldnt communicate about personal feelings. We werent intimate for years-didnt discuss it and he had numerous affairs that made him feel worse and worse.I was in denial but was a good wife to him and he was a decent if distant husband.I have issues with childhood abandonment and so does he.Cant talk to my family anymore they have had enough of my pain and cant see why I hang on-cant afford any more counselling but this site is better!-talking to others in same boat.I have the strangest feeling that as soon as I find myself and truly let go we may have a chance.But this is so hard-sadly, I built my world round him.Glad to say I am still teaching and will continue 2 days a week after summer break.Also,going to Turkey soon with daughter and grandchildren-really looking foreward to that.Like you say one day at a time .God bless.
A,
I'm sorry to hear of your situation. It sounds like you both have issues that need to be faced and dealt with. It sounds like you both may have lost your individual selves during the marriage and now he's searching for himself. This happens a lot in marriages...we tend to build our worlds around our spouses and forget that we are two separate individuals w/different needs at times. That's why it's difficult when one spouse walks and we are left behind. Our world is fractured because we are just as lost as they are. It is so important to keep the focus on you and your children during this time because you are going to have to find a way to survive, heal and live as a "separate" individual. It's a time of self discovery and to do the things that you've put off because you had no time to do them while he was at home. It's a time for you to think about what you want to do w/your life if he doesn't return.
You have some goals, i.e., teaching and traveling. This is good. I believe the time away with your daughter and grandchildren will be just what the doctor ordered. It will do you a world of good to have a change of scenery and not be thinking about what he's doing constantly. When you begin to think of your meeting on the 17th, pull out the trip information and focus on that. It may help to ease some of our anxiety.
A, it's a difficult road to travel, I kid you not, but you are going to make it. It's one day at a time.
Well,hes gone quiet again! After last Monday when we set up the date for "The Talk"-divorce or not and financial settlement for me.He said "Well I wont leave it 2 weeks before I contact you again" (Meeting is on 17th) but Ive heard nothing. I know its because he is ashamed,scared and confused but I get upset to think he doesnt seem to care how I am.At least I am strong enough now to leave him alone.He said last time he "didnt mean to be silent but he felt so bad he didnt know how to call"- what does that mean?!
Sorry snodderly just wrote the above without realising you had replied! (not used to format and terrible with technology) As usual you have hit the nail on the head I completely lost my identity in the marriage and lived only for him. I really feel I dont know who I am and am obsessing about the future, and if I can cope without him which is nuts as I have done for a year. Its the roller coaster of hope and despair- "I want a divorce no wait a minute I will decide in the new year "etc.Cant bear to think of my life if he doesnt return because of the way this ended-no effort to rebuild,no anger, still love, but fear and confusion also .Am praying so hard he finds peace and clarity. His guilt is enormous and I worry that this will get in the way of us being able to become close.Thank you for your posts .
A,
It's not that your h doesn't seem to care about you and how you feel, but he's an emotional wreck right now. Heck, he can't help himself, so how can he help you? As for going quiet...that's normal, especially if something is coming up that they would rather sweep under the rug and depression could be forcing him to focus on his "me" self right now. You have to remember that the crisis is all about him and you really don't factor into his equation except that you and the relationship are what is holding back from his freedom, illusive happiness and no responsibilities. Keep in mind, they all think this way and it's something you've said or done. They just completely look at us as the enemy and this can go on for quite a while. That's why it's important to leave them alone as much as possible to work through the process.
His comment about he felt so bad to call....depression and guilt at their finest. All of his strength right now is being used up in the day-to-day world putting on masks so that others think he's fine. He's emotionally beat up and can't deal w/talking about separations/divorce and finances, but it's got to be done and you are going to have to be the one to keep your business hat on when discussing finances. Leave your heart at the door because you are dealing w/business matters.
I'm sorry, it's frustrating, but if you read some of the threads posted in this forum and the resources threads, you'll discover they all follow a similiar path. The Mother Ship loads up every day and they are gone for a very long time in some instances.
You now are on your own and you have to find a way to take care of yourself and do not rely on him to be rational or their to support you. It's all about him now.
Thanks-problem is he doesnt act as if I am the enemy-he is really sweet and considerate when we talk;though very nervous if I mention feelings eg Me"so have you got some meaning back into your life ; are you content?" Him"it varies- I am still whirling around"?!!?He is and always has been a master of controlling and hiding his feelings I am the total opposite.Wish I could control my thoughts and stop over analysing. I lurch between"he is away probably with OW and doesnt give a damn about me " and " He must be thinking about me I spent half of his life with him and honestly kept my vows to love,honour and obey how can he do this and sleep at night? etc"I am stronger than last year at this time when I nearly had a real breakdown but still full of fear and anxiety.How can I best negotiate what I need to live financially,keep relations friendly ,and indicate that I am moving on with my life but havent given up on us? Dont suppose you could fly over to England for our meeting next week ? (joke) Thanks for posting. Hope when all this is over I will be able to support others.
Got a random phone call last night from him for no particular reason that I can see except he did say before that he would call before our meeting.Was complaining about his health(again) this time a tooth abcess.I did sympathise and we chatted casually about his parents ,work,and the sale of our house. Nothing else. It takes my breath away how, on the verge of divorce after a 28 year marriage he can act as if everything was normal.When he called I was on the point of going out with my little grandaughter waiting at the door so I probably sounded a bit vague and distant.I asked him to call next week and confirm aboutThursday-so nervous; must get my thoughts clear about what I want when time comes.Wear business hat-problem is finances are bound up in whether or not we divorce so relationship issues seem unavoidable.Am praying for strength and courage.
A,
Your h is all into himself these days. He wanted you to know about his health issues. He wanted sympathy from you about his latest issue w/his tooth. Sounds like the stressors in his life are rearing their ugly heads. They all go through this "poor me" stage. Listen, validate and just let it go. They have to figure it out for themselves.
As for you, enjoy your time w/your granddaughter. Yes, the 17th is around the corner, but everything will fall into place. You will need to try to keep your emotions in check a bit when you do meet. Emotions tends to make a mess of things when it comes to separating the finances, etc.
Try to enjoy your day.
Well, have had to keep myself busy this weekend to stop from brooding and obsessing. I keep playing imaginary conversations and possible scenarios over in my head. I suppose its a good sign he has had the courage to agree to a meeting as he runs away from anything potentially unpleasant.Will try to be pleasant and businesslike and not talk about relationship but it will be hard to avoid divorce talk as this affects finance discussion.Will try to let him lead the meeting and talk about what he wants-probably more of the same-space ,and calling infrequently for no particular reason. But if he surprises me and asks for divorce then so be it. I get really angry when I imagine he is trying to force my hand in a passive/agressive way so that he can say "she divorced me" to make him feel better. But why should I do the dirty work? Ive asked hom continuously do you want me to send off the final paper. He has said that he cant bring himself to sign. I guess this is cake eating but I do sense a genuine confusion.
A,
There is a book called 'Crucial Conversations'. It deals with all sorts of scenarios - but I have heard people on here talk highly of it when they have wanted to prepare for an important conversation with a loved one. It sort of goes through technique etc as well as options.
Thanks Saffie-will look out for that . Its so difficult when I know everything I say will be thought about and analysed by him ,and we havent seen each other for 2 months. I am so nervous -its ridiculous when weve been married 28 years!Well, I still love him and will give it my very best divorce-busting shot.Being alone for a year has taught me a lot though- especially that I can live without him and be,if not happy ,content in a lonely way.
He called last night to cancel our "talk" meeting which had been planned for 3 weeks. He said he had urgent dental treatment.I know he has been in a lot of pain recently but to book on that date? Also he said we could reschedule but "not next week." In other words more avoidance. He knows I finish work in 3 days and need financial settlement. I am now at the end. He said " I miss my friend" but he is clearly not considering my desperate situation. If we arrange another date and meet I fear it will be more ambivalence and procrastination. I have battled for this marriage and been calm, friendly and validating for 18 months. With a heavy heart and many tears I have decided to divorce him. I love him still. Told him that last night the reply was silence. Sorry this is such a sad post. Feel I cant give any more, He was unfaithful with many women for 25 years and I ignored it- my fault I was in denial.We are co-dependant and this is going to hurt like h-l.
A,
I'm sorry to read he canceled the meeting, but from what you had written earlier, I suspected he might do this. He can't face you, the situation or the mess he's created. So, what do you do? Go on w/your life and if he opts to catch up, so be it. You need to do what you must in order to survive. I'm very sorry it's come to this.
Please take care of yourself.
Talked on phone for an hour last night. He begged for a reschedule of meeting and in my weakness I agreed. He wont cancel this one as he is frightened of divorce. I explained that I cant afford to live here anymore at end of month as I am now not working . Came up with a plan to rent out marital home which has been empty a year and is unlikely to sell as housing market in England in crisis.He swore that his reason for not wanting divorce isnt just financial and I believe this. But money obviously comes into it! He said not a day goes by without him thinking about me. He agreed to call once a week. We meet in another 3- I have a much needed holiday first. He said he really misses his "friend"-thats a start I suppose.Im going to have to be firm on the money side will take a financial breakdown when we meet. I am going with my gut feeling on this which is that he is still confused and frightened and is hiding from everything. I feel more in control though-divorce is always a final option.Do you think I am being weak? I will do anything to save our relationship but not become homeless!
Communication has been much better since the resceduling of our talk. I can sense the relief he is feeling.He has sent an e-mail and an affectionate text in the last few days. I sent him a friendly postcard I thought he would like and he texted back right away to thank me. Other than that I dont pursue,never ring him or text etc. Know he is still working things out. Now people say I am being naive and that he is cake eating. To some extent this is true. But I have to go on my gut feeling -(Ive known him 28 years.)He doesnt want a divorce. Because he still loves me "You are so dear to me not a day goes by that I dont think about you" -but not in THAT way-(ILYBINILWY)and also he is frightened of the financial settlement /arrangement looming. Ive made it clear that if we dont agree on another option I will divorce him and Ive said if he forces me to this I wont forgive him,because of the cowardly ending.Last time we spoke I said you are giving up your closest friend and the one who loves you best .That really hit home. He is totally confused,not well physically ,and struggling to function at work-he told me this.I love him but can do nothing but wait,make sure I look after my financial needs and carry on with my life alone.Ive fought to save this marriage because I am certain we could be happy and I know he would regret it. If he is doubtful now he would spend the rest of his life thinking what if...This site and being able to put my thoughts down has kept me sane.I pray that all the others in distress here find peace and resolution.
Back from a great holiday and tried hard not to think too much about my poor marriage and the thread its dangling on. We (he) has rescheduled our finance talk to 7th August -Thursday.Of course he could chicken out again but I dont think so. I was so upset last time I said lets just divorce and let court sort settlement but he begged for a rescheduled meeting.There are 5 options that I can see open to us the first is divorce the other 4 are practical financial ones. I will try to be non emotional although after 3 months it will be all I can do not to throw my arms around him. He is so confused and scared.He says things like " You are so dear to me....not a day goes by that I dont think about you" But if this is so -and I sense he is telling the truth- why wont he work on the marriage? Its so difficult to be separated, in limbo and neither in nor out of a relationship. I feel I cant move.Cant imagine my life without him in it although weve been living apart a year now .Somehow we both keep holding on.
A,
You can't move because you've not detached enough from the situation. My impression from your postings is that your entire life hinges on your h. A, you had a life long before your h entered into it and now that he's off in La La Land, you are going to have to dig very deep and pull that self reliant, independent woman back out of the bag and look at yourself as single for the time being. There isn't any guarantee that he's going to want to return any time soon, if ever. It's very, very important that you start carving out a life without him being the center for now.
He's struggling w/himself right now and yes, he's confused somewhat about what he wants. Just leave him out there to find the answers he's looking for, but in the mean time, find yourself in this entire mess and live your life to the fullest.
BTW, I'm very happy to read that you enjoyed your holiday.
Thank you so much for response. Do you have any tips about how I can do this? (detach more)I have spent half of my life with this man and yes, built my life around him. I think its the uncertainty is killing me- for the 6 months after the bomb while I was sorting out divorce papers etc I was grieving but getting on with things. Now,while he is so undecided I cant seem to focus on anything else for long.I have found some part time teaching work for September and that will really help-weekends are the worst.I know I should get a grip but have been told I will feel this awful for at least 2 years.I also am beginning to despise myself-after all I am nearly 60 not a needy child!
A,
How you feel (after a divorce) depends upon you. No one can tell just how long it will take to grieve the loss of a marriage, i.e., it's just like grieving for a death of a loved one.
How I managed to move on was to sit down, make a list of things the needed to be done and a list of what I would like to do for myself, i.e., fun things. For every chore that needed to be done, I would factor in a fun thing as well. You will also think of him as someone who has passed on to the other side for a while.
The problem right now is that you are communicating w/him. It's opening up the wounds and leaving them festering. Limbo will do that to you if you don't find a way to keep your mind focused on other things. What you are experiencing is very normal. We all have gone through it at the beginning. So, take a deep breath, make those lists and then start doing some of the tasks. This would be a good time to discover new shops, cafes, etc. Look in your local paper for free exhibits, workshops, etc. You may need to be around people or "public" activities to help you keep your mind off of him. You'll need to try different things and when something works, stick w/it.
Think about you and your family and leave him out there to swing for a bit.
Thanks snodderly have been keeping busy-planned evening classes looking for house to rent and spending time with my daughter.H is coming up on Tues to"discuss options" (money matters) havent seen him for 3 months he said it will be upsetting(guilt)Have to sort this out then I feel I will be able to leave him swinging as you said.He knows where I am and he knows I love him.My gut feeling is also that this will take a long time with no guarantees so I have to move on.But as long as I am still married this is hard.I have always felt that in a couple of years he will turn up again in my life.He has always said he couldnt not see me,even during the bomb.Ive set myself some goals and that has helped.Thank you for replying to my posts-havent anyone else. After a year my family are compassion fatigued and cant understand why I still hold on,so I cant talk to them about it any more with them.
A, I understand the compassion fatigue thing, too. I think that families hurt when they see you hurting.
As I am picking up the pieces and trying to plan my life, I don't think they are as angry w/H.
Last nights meeting went really well from the big warm hello hug to the cheerful goodbye kiss. I DBd my socks off and was his best friend. I was clear about my poor financial situation and he listened. We discussed the options I had prepared he still doesnt want to divorce" and write off 28 years" but no mention of any reconciliation(from either of us). I asked him if he was still a married man or making a fool of me and cake- eating. He appeared sincere in denying it and he has never been able to lie direct.He has agreed to pay some maintenence and we are going to remortgage the (empty) marital home so that he can buy me out and I will have a deposit for a house.If he cant do this, we discussed buying a house in joint names for me to live in. Share mortgage costs.I know that financially I would get more by divorcing him but am content to leave it a bit longer,rebuild on the friendship and continue to make my own single life with him as a close friend for now, no demands.Am I being taken for a ride? I have to go on my instinct
on this-28 years of knowing him- and give him more time- but not indefinitely .I am 60 in May!
Feel a lot calmer- guess eventually the need and obsession wears itself out through sheer exhaustion.H said he would have left me years earlier
but was afraid I would "fall apart" He was right. My world as I knew it ended last May when he walked out on 28 yrs of marriage.I hit rock bottom and thought only about getting him back.13 months on,we are still married but separated.The intense pain,and the worst anxiety have eased.I am pushing on with practical things and though I think of him daily it is not with such panic as before. I can be happy doing stuff without him .He can see, and has said,how much I have changed.At first it was an "acting as if" but now I really am dropping the rope and trying to GAL. He is in a MLC with with concerns about his work,ageing parents, and I think EA with OW.All I can do is let time pass ,look after myself(we are currently negotiating finance he doesnt want D neither do I )and be calm and upbeat when we do meet.My only concern is that I put myself in an emotional limbo by remaining married.We still love each other but this will take a long time I can tell.Support from people on this site have really helped.
A,
I hate to say this, but if he really felt like he needed to leave years ago, he would have done it. Many of them say that they've not been happy 1, 2, 5 15 years. The time frame changes w/their moods. Quite frankly, you didn't chain him to your side, so I would just let that comment roll off your back. We all go through a period of being obsessed and making every attempt to get them back. Some take longer to work through the grieving process and others, a shorter period of time. As you walk the path to Oz, you are going to discover that, in time, you are going to detach more and more and then one day, realize that those anxious moments are slowly easing off. It's called healing.
I think you are very wise to concentrate on you, your family and those things that require your attention. You will learn that you can do things on your own and guess what, it's very liberating to do them and discover that what you thought was so difficult has been accomplished by you! You just have to think positive and put one toe out the door at a time and eventually you will have walked over the threhhold of life and continued on down the path.
Your h is going to sense that you are different once he's convinced that you are moving on w/your life. He'll test you over and over again in his own way, but do not allow him to bring you down. Do not revert back to your old ways. If anything, show him that you are no longer dependent upon him to live your life to the fullest. Limbo can be very rough, but you have decide just how rough your ride will be. This type of crisis takes a very long time to get through. No one knows what the future holds as to whether he'll return or not, but in the meantime, plot your life's course and move ahead one step at a time.
Your words have supported me more than you know,at times I have truly thought I was losing my mind over this massive life-change-retirement,possible divorce and selling up and moving.Can you explain what you meant by him testing?He keeps on saying how much I have changed,that he thinks of me daily and loves me etc -he means it but I also think its to make us both feel better!Meanwhile no mention of reconciliation- as you say much too soon; perhaps when it becomes far less important to me it may happen. life is strange that way I think.I know that I can look after myself fine but the baby girl that was sent to boarding school aged 2 keeps coming in-yes I have "attachment issues" and the thought of the rest of my life without him is so frightening and sad still.Thank you for your responses.
A,
There are times when they will test you. You say that you've changed in some aspects of your life. Correct? Well, your h could say or do something that might revert you back to your old self. He's testing you to see if the changes are real/genuine. If you are only making the changes to please him, they won't stick and after a while, you'll revert back to your old self/habits. However, if you are making the changes for you and to make yourself happy, you are more apt to continue doing them. Do you understand better now?
Please remember, you have a 50/50% chance of him returning. Then again, if it's a long time from now, you may change your mind and tell him that you don't want a reconciliation. Right now, you are so new to this game and still are trying to find ways to get him to return. For now, shelve thoughts of him returning any time soon and just work on yourself. His journey really has just begun and we need step back and allow him to make that journey all on his own.
Ive changed because I really had no choice- couldnt weep forever and had to live somehow-find part time work and somewhere to live etc.I know I lost myself totally in the marriage and so this separation is good for my independence.I do want so much to be with him but I know he is really afraid"of feeling like I did before"But its been a year now. Shouldnt he know what he wants ?I do leave him alone but am frightened that he gets used to being without me. Also,dont know the situation with the OW whom he was/is emotionally attached to.Last week he said he loved me, I had really changed and was a good person. So why,I wanted to say,wont you work on the marriage? Yes I am doing stuff but I am not happy,just one step at a time as you say.Do you really put the odds at 50/50? He did say he didnt want to write off 28 years but I darent be optimistic.
Yes, I put the odds at 50/50%. Why? He could swing either way in whether to come home or just stay out there. As for him actually knowing what he wants....I seriously doubt that he really knows which end is up right about now. People who are depressed swing back and forth and this is an emotional driven crisis w/depression being attached to it. Emotions are very hard to get a grip on, therefore, he's not thinking clearly and is just floating along with the flow for now. Please don't ask him about working on the marriage....he can't and won't do it right now. Besides, the only thing you are going to hear is that he needs space and he wants a divorce or something of that nature.
A, for your sake right now, protect your financial assets and just leave this man out there to swing by himself. Focusing on him is creating entirely too much stress and anxiety for you.
Very hard not to think about him-He contacts me so infrequently that I run through all possible scenarios.I dont know what is stopping me just filing-as long as he is so loving when we do meet-and says a divorce"would be the end of us " I cant do it. But,14 months into separation I am so confused.Ive tried hard to work out what is causing him to keep rejecting me.He left I think because he felt we needed an "adult" relationship and its true I made him the centre of my world with nothing else.At least now we are discussing money but he is reluctant to engage and Ive heard nothing for over a week. Fortunately Ive got some part time teaching work to keep my head above the water.He has acknowledged that he is going to have to help me financially. But he is worried that his present job contract due to expire in March wont be renewed. Would you believe he is a counsellor with years of experience helping drug and alcohol addicts!But right now he is in a major mess-I just cant pull the plug.He hung onto me like a limpet when he hugged me last time we met."Havent we both been silly" he said.I bit my lip!
No response or contact since brief e-mail about house sale last friday week.SO tempted to go to soliciters and file-but last time we talked he still didnt want divorce. Wish I could work out what that means. Of course,money has to be a major factor but he has agreed to some maintenence payments and perhaps buying me out on the house so that I can get my own place.How can he not contact me knowing my housing situation? Isnt 28 years of marriage worth a 5 minute call?Is this growing resentment healthy? Ive always said that I understand his affairs,his confusion,even his leaving me just at retirement and EA with OW.But this ambivalence I find so very difficult.Once money is sorted I know I can let it drop and concentrate on my own rebuilding. Am thinking maybe I should do a major 180 and be really firm and assertive regarding finances.But dont want to add to his depression .I want all this to go away!
This non- communication is SO difficult for me. H was always a closed sort of person which drove me crazy sometimes as I am the opposite and wear my heart on my sleeve.After 2 weeks silence I did weaken and sent him a friendly card. I know, I know, I shouldnt have. But as always he responded promptly thanking me (always does when I initiate contact) and rang me but my mobile was off so he left text message saying he would ring next day but hasnt!Ive left response on his ansaphone asking him to call and now will leave it. If he wants to, he will.
Problem is there are practical financial things to discuss. Once they are settled I do think I will be strong enough to leave well alone-I have done before -my record is 5 weeks!Will I ever get over this-I am trying to put other things into my life but its "acting as if " and weve been living apart 14 months now.
A,
You'll slowly get to the other side of life, whereby you won't have and/or feel the "need" to contact your h. When separating the assets/financial items, it takes time and if your h isn't willing to meet w/you, you just might have to take care of them yourself. It sounds like he really doesn't want anything legalized in the way of splitting up things.
I'm not surprised at all to read that he's not called you up. They say things and yet don't follow through in many instances. This is where you need to keep your expectations at zero at all times. The person you were familiar w/and knew very well, is not longer that person. If he's depressed, he's going to be forgetful or because he doesn't want this conversation, will conveniently forget about calling you. What do you do? Go on w/your life and take care of the business that affects you.
Until you are fully detached and able to stop focusing on him the way you are, you will not be able to move on as easily as you think. Detaching is not easy to do and the more you focus on him, the harder it is. That's why it's very important to find other things to do to take your mind off of him, what he's doing, etc. You'll get there in time....
Thanks snodderly youre better than all the counsellors Ive seen who,in the main,say things like" This man isnt worth it just divorce him...Why hold on" etc)I am amazed how slow the detachment and healing is. I now have a dull ache inside all the time instead of the awful stomach punches I got at the beginning so I am making some progress.How much better I feel is definitely related to how busy I am. When I was teaching full time earlier this year I felt much better. Im going to do 2 days a week now but have arranged some classes for my days off and will get into a routine. Furnishing my new rented house will be fun too.I dont think I will ever stop loving him though...He isnt a bad person just so weak and confused.
Havent posted for a while-no change in the situation.He calls quite regularly and is curious I know about my new house but I havent invited him up or said when are you next coming to see me etc like I used to. Im getting used to being alone,not constantly checking my phone for missed calls,going over our last conversation in detail etc.He said when I asked how are you "not so good" he is worried about his parents his job and his health(another illness this time an infection)When I said "shall we both just let the soliciters sort out the money? he said then we would lose control. He is giving me maintenence.He did sound quite blue when he rang on
Sunday. I did say I feel I cant move on as long as we are still married because being married means something to me is that silly? He said no it wasnt silly.My gut feeling is that he is still"swinging" and is unsure what he wants. I think he can sense that I am withdrawing but truthfully I cant give up hope on us.Its now 16 months post bomb-separated for most of them though we keep up contact.Obviously he is not as happy as he thought he would be when he left.I guess time is on my side.Meanwhile life goes on I am not happy,but busy and content,not so anxious. Can live without him-am doing.Wouldnt have thought so last year at this time.
Arianne,
I have just read through your thread; you sound much better now than you did in the beginning! There are plenty of others here who have more experience than I and can perhaps can advise you better (snodderly is a gold mine!); however, I think that if your H is giving you some money, that is as much as you can expect from him right now. You just have to pretend you're single as far as just about everything except dating, I think.
It sounds like you are beginning to detach, which is very good! I think your best option is to keep detaching, GAL like crazy, and leave him alone to flap in the breeze! No R talks, no D talk, don't bring up anything negative, and if he does, just listen and validate. He doesn't know who he is, where he's going, what he wants...so DON'T ASK him about any of that, because he can't give you a straight answer and it puts pressure on him. If he contacts you, be light and positive and friendly. Otherwise, leave him alone to sort himself out, because any demands or pressure or questions from you (pure as your intentions may be) are just going to complicate and prolong the process, IMHO.
I have to tell you that this takes a while, but "fake it 'til you make it" really does work eventually. I am living proof. I have a VERY long history of serious depression (almost 30 years), and I seriously considered suicide EVERY SINGLE DAY for about three months after I found out about my H's OW. I had purchased the means for my suicide (sleeping pills), and had a plan for when and how I was going to do it, and was mentally writing my final letters to loved ones and thinking about how would be best to get them delivered, and was considering how to find a lawyer to prepare a will and other final documents. I have been in suicidal mode many times in my life, but this was by far the longest period that I was so close to actually taking that final step. The only times during that period that I wasn't thinking about suicide, I was thinking about murder and mutilation (you can guess who the subjects might have been).
Finally, FINALLY, my antidepressants kicked in, and I slowly started to feel like death might not actually be the option that would make me feel the best. (I have been on antidepressants in the past, and before, when they kicked in, it was a sudden, dramatic difference--going from depressed to relatively happy in half a day. This time the improvement was much, much more gradual--took about three weeks after they started working for me to be sure of it.) I began doing GAL activities, as much as I could stand (I'm an introvert, so being with people is a drain on my energy). I spent a LOT of time, and every iota of my energy, pretending to be much happier than I actually was with most people, especially with my H, which really confused him because I had never hidden my depression from him before, so he was used to seeing this very sad person, and it was one of the major issues in fracturing our M. Very, very slowly, I was faking my happiness less, and feeling it more, until today, one year after my descent into the tenth level of H-E-double-toothpicks, I would estimate that I am at least as happy as the average person who has no major crisis occurring or history of depression. And THAT, my friend, is a miracle in itself!
I would not be here today were it not for four factors: 1) God; 2) friends and relatives who went above and beyond to help and support me during this horrific experience; 3) antidepressants (when they finally started working); and 4) having been through a similar but less serious experience six years earlier (although it certainly felt serious enough at the time!), and knowing from that nightmare experience that if I could just hang on to the edge of the cliff a little longer, I would eventually feel better and be able to climb back over and away from the edge of the abyss, due to both the passage of time and the effect of functioning antidepressants. There were many times that I didn't think I could stand it for another five minutes--I had "emotional hives" (not an actual physical ailment) and wanted to crawl out of my skin all the time--but I did stand it, and managed the five minutes after that, and so on, until, after what seemed like eternity, I eventually found myself in a pretty good place emotionally.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, my H still seems pretty miserable, despite still going hot and heavy with OW, and also despite the fact that I have done everything I can think of to avoid being the source of a problem in his life--no pressure, no demands, no nastiness or arguing, always calm and pleasant to him and just accept whatever he dishes out and let it roll off my back, don't take offense. By no stretch of the imagination am I perfect, but I do pretty well with DBing. I am sure he finds a million things about me to gripe about to other people, but the fact is that they are nearly all either quite minor, totally in the past, or all in his head. For example, he probably blames me for preventing him from living with OW, but the fact is, he has never indicated any definite plans to move out of the marital home (although he has indicated several times that he is considering it), and I have not tried to stop him from doing so in any way other than to make things more pleasant for him here. I do sometimes wonder what he tells OW or anyone else about why he is still here, but I don't waste a lot of my time on that...trying to figure out the thought processes of a MLCer is an exercise in futility, and I have better things to do with my time and my brainpower.
Anyway...the only reason I have spent so much time describing some of the details of MY sitch on YOUR thread is to give you hope, by my concrete examples, that it can get better if you keep at it. Hey, if I can be happier, given the sitch I'm in, and given my depression history, anybody can! Antidepressants help, of course, but they don't usually make you giddy--they just put you on an even keel with the average person so that you actually have a chance at being happy.
I hope you don't mind me taking up so much space on your thread with all this, but my hope is that it helps YOU. I think your chances at winning back your H are decent; more so if you can detach and GAL and all of that other DB stuff! Beyond that, you just need to give him lots of time and lots of space, and go about putting together a life you love in the meantime! We all know how hard it is, especially when you have been with your S so long...but it can be done, as evidenced by the many, many success stories on this board.
I hope this helps you! Keep us posted!
Blessings and peace,
Dawn
Dawn your posting is a real inspiration to me-thank you so very much for taking time to read my story. Last May I thought my world had ended-I was 58,about to retire to my home town with H when the bomb dropped. I really thought I would go crazy with the grief and fear. He has/had? ow but isnt happy-keeps saying he doesnt want a divorce and keeps in touch though its only once a week or so.After 28 years its hard to be my own person-you see, he was my entire world (I think thats one of the reasons he couldnt cope) He keeps saying that I have changed so much. I pray that he finds clarity and returns to me but no more tears or pursuing from me! He says he loves me but I know he is scared Mostly,we dont discuss the marriage. I think I have a 50/50 chance of him returning but I know now I can live without him.I am so sorry to hear of your clinical depression-you really have pulled yourself out of the pit what a fighter,do write and tell me more about your self if you feel able. When he first left I cried constantly I mean non- stop I went down to 5 stone- doctor prescribed amyltriptaline but it spaced me out! Im certainly not against drug therapy if it keeps you from going over the edge. God bless you x
A,
You are doing better than you think. You are gradually detaching from the drama and that's okay. You need to have your emotional coaster settle down a bit. Your h is still very mixed up and that's why he's the way he is. If he's giving you money, accept it graciously and always thank him for it.
A....time really is on your side. You must remember that you are the healthy one here, living in your nice place and have your family around you. Your h is living in a forest of unknown right now and that's not a good place to be.
Keep up the good work! Take care of yourself.
Arianne,
How are you doing today? I hope you are a little better every day!
Dawn your posting is a real inspiration to me-thank you so very much for taking time to read my story.
You're welcome! I read pretty much everything in the MLC forum sooner or later, especially the threads that get posted to most frequently, so that's why it took me a while to run across yours.
Last May I thought my world had ended-I was 58,about to retire to my home town with H when the bomb dropped. I really thought I would go crazy with the grief and fear. He has/had? ow but isnt happy-keeps saying he doesnt want a divorce and keeps in touch though its only once a week or so.After 28 years its hard to be my own person-you see, he was my entire world (I think thats one of the reasons he couldnt cope)
I think we would all agree that it is hard to be alone all of a sudden, especially after being with your S for a long time. I found that in the beginning, although I had sympathy for others, I was in so much emotional pain that I really couldn't give much attention to anyone else, but as time has gone on, I am more able to reach out and help other people.
He keeps saying that I have changed so much. I pray that he finds clarity and returns to me but no more tears or pursuing from me!
That is great, that he sees how much you have changed! At least he doesn't completely have his head in a dark place!
It really seems to confuse them when we change--they have a bit more trouble remembering how horrible we supposedly were before, I think!
He says he loves me but I know he is scared Mostly,we dont discuss the marriage. I think I have a 50/50 chance of him returning but I know now I can live without him.
And that is probably the best place you can be, given what is happening to him right now. You are detaching, which is so helpful for YOU.
I am so sorry to hear of your clinical depression-you really have pulled yourself out of the pit what a fighter,do write and tell me more about your self if you feel able. When he first left I cried constantly I mean non- stop I went down to 5 stone- doctor prescribed amyltriptaline but it spaced me out! Im certainly not against drug therapy if it keeps you from going over the edge. God bless you x
One of these days I am going to have to figure out the conversion from stones to pounds, as I never know how to evaluate it when one of you folks across the pond talks weight.
Thank you for your kind and affirming words; that was really heartwarming! I have struggled with my depression for so long, and felt like such a failure for so much of my life, that I am still very surprised to not only still be alive, but to be about as happy as I think anyone can be expected to be, given the whole sitch with my H!
I have now accepted that I really will probably have to be on antidepressants for the rest of my life (unless someone comes up with something better). I'm not crazy about the whole drugs-for-life thing, but if that's what it takes for me to have a whole life instead of a shadow of one, and to keep from being in agony much of the time and burdening people close to me...so be it. I've been on AD's and I've been off, and for me, on is better...much, much better.
I've always been a functional depressive--did very well in school, got my college degree, and I run my own business; have never failed to get out of bed every day--but emotionally it has been like trying to run in waist-deep mud most of the time. I made my first suicide attempt when I was 13 years old. It took me years and years to even understand that the things I felt were not normal, and longer for me to seek treatment, and longer yet to believe that there were things that would actually help me to feel better on a long-term basis. I'm still completely clueless about my purpose in life, why I'm still here (miracle which that is), but I assume that since I'm still alive, God must have something in mind for me to do.
I need to go to bed now, but if you would like to check out my thread (see link at the bottom of my signature), that will probably tell you ten times as much as you would ever want to know about me. But if you would like to know more, just ask!
Snodderly's advice sounds dead-on to me, and it sounds like you are doing very well, all things considered! Take care, and I will check back with you later!
Peace and courage,
Dawn
Thanks snodderly it feels like a great wound is healing and I know I am better than before but I still care for him so much and leaving him to "flounder" even though its all I can do right now is hard.I cant wait to see him again but have held back on inviting him to see my new place and he senses this and hasnt asked outright-just put out a few feelers" do you still need a wardrobe I will bring you one-I will let you know when I am next near York (where I live)"Am trying to detach and seperate myself from his life for now.We are still married-that means a lot to me.Dawn I hope you are well today and continuing to battle on with faith .I have been told that God never allows you more pain than you can handle but sometimes we are tested,arent we? May I ask do you think your depression is genetic or a result of childhood trauma?Perhaps you dont want to discuss it though. I am thinking of you anyway.Thanks both for your support x
H has paid the first amount of voluntary maintenence into my bank account. I sent him a text thanking him and enquiring after his (always poor) health. Right away the phone went and it was him but when I pressed the answer button it cut off.I called him back right away but he didnt pick up. I think he may have called me by mistake.Anyway he obviously doesnt want to talk and is annoyed I guess over paying me money although he knows I really need it and he would be paying much more if we were divorced.I feel so very hurt that he cant spare 5 minutes to reply to my text.How can he erase 28 years like this?For the first time I am beginning to feel resentful at his current evasive behaviour.At the same time I know he is afraid and confused.God give me more patience as I feel close to really venting at him which would do no good at all for either of us,he feels guilty enough already.
Havent heard from him now for a couple of weeks. He did eventually text me asking if I was "free" on Sunday morning -presumably for a chat. I said I was away and would text him in the week. (week before last) But somehow I couldnt do it.Seems Ive gone dark without meaning to, or planning to.Dont know what to say to him.I think about him daily,and hope so much he is beginning to find himself.No word on divorce-he doesnt want it and nor do I. Dont know if he is still involved wih OW.Weve been separated now for 18 months.My feelings for him are still as strong but I am living without him and surviving. If his next voluntary maintenence payment comes through on 6th November I will send him a thank you card. My gut feeling is to let him alone right now. I know he is very curious about my new house.Sometimes I feel that I am "Getting a life" right out of my marriage and that scares me.Its so sad after 29 years together.
Hi Arianne: I am reading your post, and it is scary, isn't it? Sometimes we GAL on accident. But I think that is okay. In your earlier post, I saw that your entire life revolved around H for many years, and now you have learned to make a life for you. There is nothing wrong with this. And if your marriage does survive this, I think your H will be glad to see that you have your own interests. I took some hope from your posts...H and I have been separated for one year, and it is nice to see that I am not crazy for sticking in there. You are not either. We are just women who love our spouses, and hope that someday we can get that second chance.
Am reading Dobsons book "love must be tough"and am coming round to thinking that it would be a good 180 for me to stop being so patient and gently tell him I now need resolution and clarity in our relationship. Weve been apart so long, I know he still loves me but is scared,there are many practicalities to discuss(we now live apart in different parts of the country)I know this will be risky and could push him into the descision to let me divorce him-up till now he has said he doesnt want one.But I have visions of this going on for another year,then another etc.I do feel like a fall back in case his freedom doesnt work as well as he thought it would. I wouldnt ask for reconciliation-long way to go yet- but to meet regularly as friends.Im pretty certain he would agree to that-its me who has gone no contact for last 2 weeks. Got to be honest though Im not fully detached so should I hold on and wait? Anyone reading this I would really appreciate your thoughts
Me- 59
H-55
M-29Yrs in Dec.
Bomb May 08 "Cant move to your home town to retire with you. OW
"Strong feelings" Want divorce/get a life.Dec 08"Lets hold divorce not sure how I feel or what I want
cards still in air"
Affectionate but infrequent contact since. Still loves me.Terrified and confused. Darent talk to me much. I am stronger and did a major 180 recently by 1) moving house and being evasive about where I am 2) Not texting him back as I said I would this wasnt planned I just suddenly realised I didnt know what I could say.Silence since.Oh Help!
A,
If your h is in mlc, I do not recommend the Love Must Be Tough by Dobson. Many of us discussed this book a very long time ago and the techniques will not "snap" him out of the funk.
What I've suggested all along is to leave him alone. If he contacts you, treat him as you would a friend. Live your life as if he's not coming back and prop the door ajar. If you attempt some of the techniques/suggestions from that book, it may very push him even further away. The book is written for those who are normal and having affairs. Your h is not exactly normal as he is exhibiting confusion, etc.
A, I know you want to do something to shake up the situation, but you can't. The more you push, the harder he's going to pull away. Provide a safe place for him to land. Patience, faith, hope compassion and empathy are your keys for a mlcer.
Hi A,
I read that book as well, I followed some advice under I believe the section titled "new woman" or something similar and it backfired.
It's a good read for a different sitch. I think most of it is viewed as big time pressure by our s.
T
Thanks for responses.Every so often I think "I cant bear the uncertainty any more" then I take a deep breath,calm down, and get on with things.I guess it would pressure him more and an ultimatum isnt going to make him more ready to come back- if he ever does.I just want this to be over!But I have come a long way since last May,with the help of people on this board.
Have heard nothing and havent made any contact. My maintenence money went in on expected date. I think he has set up a standing order. I chose a nice card and wrote "thank you for the money you remembered me "but then i thought this may be pursuing so didnt send it. Its been 5 weeks now no contact. This going dark wasnt planned-I suddenly realised I didnt know what to say when I did call him and the false small talk was a strain. Then, I would go over everything we said and look for clues-ridiculous.I sense he is still thinking things through-this non- contact is a big 180 for me. I think of him daily.Our 29th anniversary is on Dec 19th.I think he is waiting for me to text him as I said I would 5 weeks ago . Ive NEVER not done what I said -I am really reliable where keeping arrangements is concerned.Anyway,this is giving us a breathing space and it feels ok right now.Am dreading Christmas.
Dawn I hope you are well today and continuing to battle on with faith .I have been told that God never allows you more pain than you can handle but sometimes we are tested,arent we? May I ask do you think your depression is genetic or a result of childhood trauma?Perhaps you dont want to discuss it though. I am thinking of you anyway.Thanks both for your support x
Arianne,
I'm sorry, I must have missed your thread when it bubbled to the top after this post!
Thank you for your well wishes! I carry on as before--no major changes in my sitch, just minor ones. I always have plenty to say, though, as you can see from most of my posts all over the board!
Regarding the idea that God never gives us more than we can handle--a friend of mine said that is because when we do overload, it's time to hand it over to divine management. Amy C said more or less the same thing on someone's thread on this board recently--she said that we ARE given more than we can handle, so that we will learn to rely on God to handle that, and everything else too.
You were asking about the origin of my depression. I certainly don't mind discussing it at all. I am pretty sure that for me it is primarily genetic. The only major trauma I can identify from my childhood was the death of my father when I was seven. Other than the repercussions of that sitch, I had an okay childhood--my mother was pretty strict, with very high expectations for us, but not to the point of being abusive or anything, and I always knew she loved me.
Genetically, though...it seems that I couldn't have avoided depression no matter how hard I tried. My mother had post-partum depression after my brother was born (when I was five), and the ADs available at that time didn't work well for her; as a matter of fact, I found out recently that she was treated with shock therapy (she was not happy that someone had revealed this to me). She's never been what you might call a joyful person--I often got the impression that she was faking happiness. My father I know less about, but I understand that he was clinically depressed too. My depression hit me when I was 13, and it's been a cloud over my life ever since. My brother (only sibling) ALSO had depression from the age of 13, although I don't think he was ever suicidal, and he was on ADs for a few years starting just before I went on them. So...you can see why it seems sort of inevitable: every member of my immediate family of origin has battled clinical depression. None of us are the life-of-the-party types, although we all have our moments.
So that's my analysis of my depression. Does that answer your question? Feel free to ask anything else you like. Drop a note on my thread if I don't get back to you within a few days--I tend to concentrate on the threads that are at the top of the "most recent post" pages.
Sounds like you are doing well with GAL and going dark...I know how hard it is to make a life for yourself after being wrapped around your H for so long, but you are doing nicely, it seems.
I need to get to bed now, but I hope you continue to feel more peace and joyful moments as you rediscover YOU.
Peace and blessings,
Dawn
Hi Dawn great to hear from you.Cant imagine what it must be like to live with such depression. You seem able to "step outside it" though and talk rationally about yourself and your feelings. Your husband is still at home- that must mean something- mine dropped the bomb in a talk taking all of 10 minutes then ran like a rabbit!
I used to pray so hard for God to send him back. Then,after about a year I started to pray that God sent him peace and clarity whatever happened. A very good Christian friend told me that when you ask God for something you get one of 3 answers. "Yes" "Yes but not yet" or " No because this isnt right for you" I hope in my case its number 2 but must accept whatever.Dawn I do wish you peace and joy also have you got nice things in mind for Christmas? Arianne
Hi Dawn great to hear from you.Cant imagine what it must be like to live with such depression. You seem able to "step outside it" though and talk rationally about yourself and your feelings.
Hi, Arianne,
Well, it probably has something to do with the fact that I've been through a LOT of therapy and self-analysis.
And truth is, I don't really know what it's like to be "normal" (although I'm much better when I'm on functional ADs), and you don't really miss what you've never had--or at least not as much.
Your husband is still at home- that must mean something-
On my more cynical days I think it just means that he is a coward and can't make a decision to save his life!
I used to think it was just a matter of finances, but the fact that he's still sleeping in the same bed with me (even though he doesn't touch me, ever) instead of moving to another room tells me there's something else going on there.
-mine dropped the bomb in a talk taking all of 10 minutes then ran like a rabbit!
Wow, that must have been rough! See first half-sentence of paragraph above!
I used to pray so hard for God to send him back. Then,after about a year I started to pray that God sent him peace and clarity whatever happened. A very good Christian friend told me that when you ask God for something you get one of 3 answers. "Yes" "Yes but not yet" or " No because this isnt right for you" I hope in my case its number 2 but must accept whatever.
Yes, I think that is right. Yes, no, or wait. I believe that a piece of paper does not dissolve what God has put together, so I will be married to my H in God's eyes for the rest of our lives regardless of what H does or what happens legally. So if you adhere to that belief, the only possible answer about M restoration is that God is saying "wait."
I am trying to focus on what *I* need to do/change to be ready for restoration of my M, and to draw closer to God, and also praying for similar divine guidance for H. I don't feel that I should tell God what to do, so a lot of the time, I find myself just praying that I, H, and OW will all be guided to God's perfect path for each of us. I believe that God hates divorce, so God's perfect path for H and me will include restoration of our M, and OW's perfect path will lead away from us.
Dawn I do wish you peace and joy also have you got nice things in mind for Christmas? Arianne
Thank you! I wish you the same!
Gosh, Christmas...that's six weeks away, and I barely know what my life is going to be like next week! Thanksgiving is only 2-1/2 weeks away, and I don't even know where I'm going to spend that holiday! I don't know if H will still be living here for either of those or what...I've seen a few possible signs that he *may* be planning to move out, but nothing definite. I do know he has bought tickets for himself and OW to see a show in early January in the area where she lives, so obviously no immediate plans to break that off.
We are scheduled to be with my family of origin for Christmas--my family is quite small (4 people, if you count H and me!) and we decided several years ago not to exchange gifts, but H and I always tried to make each other feel really loved by great gifts on special occasions. H's family is much larger (more like 20 people, if you include H's siblings (2 sibs) and their kids/grandkids/spouses/significant others/stepkids) and they still give gifts, so they spill halfway across the room from the tree because there are so many. Most of the time, H and I can fit all of the gifts we have received from his family for Christmas into one envelope (lots of gift certificates)! Not much of a load to carry home!
Last Christmas was awkward; only 2 months post-bomb, H waffling in a major way about staying with me vs. moving out (as he still seems to be waffling, last I heard, but don't really know). We did give each other gifts, but nothing very personal, and I made sure my main gift to him was returnable in case he didn't get me anything. I had told my family about the sitch but wouldn't tell H exactly *what* I had told them, and when we were with H's family (only 2 of whom knew anything about the sitch with H and me, as far as I know), I felt sad because I kept thinking that this might be the last time I ever saw some of these people, who, even if I didn't always fully appreciate them, had been a part of my life for 20 years. Also, at the time my H was still holding my hand and snuggling with me some and kissing me hello and goodbye, but all of that stopped months ago. We're like roommates now, sort of. Ugh!!
Well, I didn't mean to go on and on about myself on your thread! I just ramble a lot...! How about you; what do you plan to make your holidays special? (I need to take my own advice!)
Peace and blessings,
Dawn
Hi Dawn- I get the roomates scenario-our marriage was celibate for the last 16 years!Despite that-which we never talked about-we really enjoyed each others company and cared lots about each other.Still do.I forgot you all have thanksgiving round about now but in England the shops all go Christmas mad about October and its hard not to get carried away .Yep,sounds like tour husband is too weak to make descisions. Mine only ran because we- I- was moving back to my home town and he couldnt face my family. That,and the OW of course.But your husband clearly still cares or he would have gone-they seem able to move on without any regrets.Yes,Its hard to face relatives. His parents are quite old. After he told them, I wrote a letter saying how sorry I was, That I still loved him but couldnt seem to make him happy, and to thank them for being such good parents in law. Also sent gifts last Christmas and will again but havent seen them since-very sad.Ill be spending christmas with my daughter,grandchildren and sister what a blessing. Also,my new miniature schnauzer pup who keeps me busy and offers unconditional love! Great to hear from you take care! Arianne PS I wouldnt think too hard about OW-let it run its course.Ive no idea if my H is still seeing his.
Hi, Arianne,
16 years! That's how long I've been M total! And oh boy, I'm going a little nuts after only *one* year of celibacy! I am really, really hoping that it's not going to be a permanent condition for the rest of my life!
If there's something preventing intimacy, like a physical problem, you have to live with it, but otherwise I can't imagine being M and having a reasonably good R with each other and not ML! Of course, I am sleeping in the same bed with my H every night even though he doesn't touch me, which seems very strange to me (and everyone else I tell)...but even if he did express interest in ML with me, I would have to tell him that as long as he has an OW, I don't feel right about being intimate with him. Besides which, I don't want any nasty little health surprises!
Yes, I wasn't sure where you were located but thought you were in England, and I know you don't celebrate Thanksgiving the way we do here. It's a nice holiday, I think, and less pressure than Christmas because there aren't any gifts to buy. I grew up in a non-religious family, but I privately take the opportunity at Thanksgiving to really thank God for what I have, and renew my commitment to the practice (I fall off that wagon a lot). But it can be a little stressful to have two big family holidays only a month apart.
But we are already starting to see Christmas stuff go up in stores, which I don't like--I wish they would wait until December, or at least until after Thanksgiving (only 4 days' difference this year). I think if they have Christmas decorations up for a quarter of the year, it loses its charm and "specialness"!
Anyway...tell me again why your H couldn't face your family? Was it shame because of OW?
They say the "average" A lasts about six months, and my H's has been going on for about 15 months, so it's overdue to burn out...I hope!! No signs of that yet, though, and a lot of people here seem to have WAS's with longer A's than average. But...as difficult as it is to have him living here and rubbing my nose in his A and being cold to me all the time, and as much as I think it would probably be easier if he lived elsewhere while he's in mental outer space, I do agree that he must feel some sort of connection to me if he still lives here, still puts on his wedding ring before he leaves every day....
Well, it's after 5 a.m. here and I was going to go to bed earlier...that didn't happen! Hope you are doing well today!
Peace and blessings,
Dawn
Its now been 5 weeks silence since I went dark.I know he will be thinking things over and wondering what I am doing,but probably not as much as I am thinking of him. Im carrying on my life-going to work etc but all the time theres this ache inside ;after 29 years I miss him so much its like a close family member going off.I am leaving him alone. The maintenence money went in last week so he remembered me then.Am going to contact him in about 3 weeks to thank him when the next lot goes in.Wont pursue or ask any questions just say "thank you for the money and remembering me."I will have reached out- then if he wants to respond he will. Weve been separated 16 months now. But he hasnt gone ahead with the divorce he thought he wanted.Patience.Time is on my side.
Hello Dawn I read your post after posting the above! It must be really hard to have your H there and not let rip about your feelings. I understand that most As burn out because of guilt and they are built on deceit.Men can be weak but few I think really enjoy hurting their wives.( But they do it anyway)My H never really engaged with my family. He once told me it was because he felt ashamed,they could see he wasnt being a supportive husband to me.Also,they always suspected he was being unfaithful. I was in denial.He took off his ring years ago and never put it back on.He has real issues with emotional intimacy and I have issues with being needy-in a nutshell that is what went wrong with us.But what hurts me now is that he is too scared to give us another chance.God bless you ,I guess He has a plan for both of us and our wayward men!
Well today I broke the 6 week silence! Heard there was bad sleet and snow in the Midlands so texted "Drive carefully today x " Hope he knows this is genuine and sees it as a slightly open door.Wont contact again for a while. I feel ok-if he wants to respond he can. Didnt want him to think I had gone completely dark and cut him off now that he is giving me some voluntary maintenence.Time is healing-there is a lot more in my life now and I can see a life without him but 29 years is a lot to discard.Still have hope that he will come out of this fog and know what he wants .Am so concerned that a divorce would cause resentment between us over money issues. Meanwhile the emotional limbo continues with us both in rented homes and 100 miles apart.
A,
I do not see anything wrong in your tm to him. You let him know that you are concerned about him and want him to drive safely. No pressure there.
The time you spent w/your h was a long one. You'll never forget that time and you'll have to pull out the good memories to keep you going for a while. Your h has a long ways to go in order to finally find whatever it is he is looking for. The illusive happiness is a fantasy and unfortunately, many of them do not realize that they are the only ones that can make themselves happy. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late when they wake up.
A, I don't care how you cut it...money issues always create resent when there are separations/divorces. Just do the best you can and make sure that you get a fair settlement.
Take care.
Thank you snodderly as ever great comments. I can see even now that if he came to me in say 6 months time I would be uncertain about living with him again.I am getting used to being on my own and being independent. But this in itself makes me so sad.I still care about him so much.We did a bit of counselling a year ago and the counsellor observed how we both tried to please -we never argued or negotiated. Thats why the thought of an acrimonious divorce is awful- as he has said "It would be the end of us" He hasnt responded to my text.
A,
He will respond to your text very soon. Patience is one of the hardest virtues we must learn on this journey. Time will tell what the future will hold for the both of you.
Please take care of yourself.
Nothing yet. Patience. Will contact him again in a week or so- no pressure but let him know I am thinking of him- perhaps just a thank you when next maintenence goes in.Christmas will be hard. He will either be with his parents or perhaps OW- (so hard to bear.)But he cant forget our 29 years so soon,surely? Our anniversary is on 19th. Last year at this time I never thought I would still be in limbo.I think I will always love him but cant let the loss take over the rest of my life.
Ok- next 180.Found a card he would like (artistic print) and stuck 5 love hearts in a row inside. They said " Guess Who?-Only Me- I Hope- Good Pals-For Ever"Nothing else- no other message or even a signature. I hope he responds to this its lighthearted and no pressure. Been 9 weeks of no contact. I feel better every day. Am doing everything I can to save my marriage(mostly just letting him be as Snodderly advised) but occasionally reaching out in a non demanding way. Rest of my life is good- job,family and adoring doggy-feeling less "on hold " and more in control.Watch this space!
Its our 29th anniversary next friday.Wonder if he will acknowledge it-probably not. I will send a card-not romantic more a "I didnt forget" thing. So that will be contact - non pressured- from me every 2 or 3 weeks in the last 6 weeks. Before that, 9 weeks silence. He hasnt responded yet.Feel awful as I dont know what he is thinking/doing. If he wanted to he would contact me ,but why doesnt he just go ahead with the divorce? Ive told him numerous times that I am ok and would be fine and he said he knew. This time of year is so painful.
Nope. No communication from him-didnt expect it either. Decided to not send an anniversary card (no point )but did send a Christmas card and wrote " until we find the words...."in it .We are both scared to talk right now but I am going to have to sort out settlement soon as Im 60 in May. If this causes me to lose him completely I am ready for that, but dont want it at all. Its now 17 months since he left and still prevaricating.Need to make some goals for myself but some days still feel as weak as a kitten.Am proud that I am stronger and am not pursuing him.Still want to save the marriage but chances look slim right now.
Contact! I received a text today" Ive sent you an e-mail please please read it" Here is the contents-"Dearest Caroline,
I am truly sorry for not contacting you. I've got stuck in a loop and am too frightened to contact you. It is fear as well as overwhelming shame for letting it go this long. It's just not fair to you. It's weak and pathetic. You must think I never think of you and am just getting on with life without a second's thought - and how could you not think that. But that's so far from the truth. I think about you every single day and I now I can't sleep because you must think I don't care.
I'm ashamed to tell you I have not opened your last 2 letters for fear of what I may find - pathetic. I don't know why I'm like this it's awful and I'm truly sorry for any hurt my behaviour has caused. I'm also sorry that I have not paid December's money in - I'm afraid my bank stopped my card till I was paid. I'll pay the money into your account tomorrow at the latest.
Now I've sent this I'll open those letters.
I hope so much you have a good Christmas and that you're happy.
Please forgive me - I can't understand how or why I get into this state.
Love Christopher." Now I dont know what to do, how to respond. I think this e-mail says guilt guilt guilt. How do I move foreward with this? Do I suggest a meeting? Dont want to scare him off. Need some impartial advice here. I really want to save this 29 year old marriage. Help!
A,
Wait a while and then post a tm that may something like this
"Christopher, thank you for the tm. I'm glad to see that you are okay. Thank you for putting the money into the account. It is much appreciated. I hope you have a good Christmas as well".
Do not suggest a meeting at this time. He needs to be the one to suggest it this time around. Okay?
Snodderly I think you are right. My urge to send a loving and emotional e-mail would do no good. Thanks for the advice-Merry Christmas to you and everyone else reading this.
So- I waited a day and replied " Christopher ,Thank you for your e-mail. Ive read it carefully and know you are sincere. Thank you also for the money it is much appreciated. I hope you have a good Christmas as well. Love Caroline."This unemotional approach is a real 180 for me.Will he now find the courage to initiate further contact? What is he afraid of anyway?And why is he so keen for me to know he hasnt forgotten me?Is this only to make himself feel better about walking out?Scared to open my letters too! (They were only casual friendly cards)He seems full of guilt and fear and theres nothing I can do about it. I think Im in this for the long game.
Sent him a friendly personalised birthday card on 30th.Will now leave things alone. Keep re-reading his e-mail and cant interpret it.One minute I think it was only sent to make him feel better- then I think it must have taken courage and hes reaching out. He sounds still confused to me.Must say, this message has set me back a bit.In a way it would be better if he had just tossed me aside.Then I could really resent him and move on. Does that make sense?
A,
You are still trying to analyze his every word, move, etc. You can't when a person is suffering from depression. You've sent him a thank you at Christmas and a birthday card for his birthday, that's all you can do for now.
They tend to poke their heads out periodically and give you hope. That's why you must keep your expectations at zero. Have you read any books on depression? Have you gone back and read the MLC Resources thread? There's a lot of valuable information there that would describe your h to a "t".
A, you need to live your life as if he's not coming back. You need to focus on you and your family and just leave him be. He will contact you again now that the holidays are behind us. Holidays are tough on all of us, but more so for those who are depressed and/or in crisis mode.
I do hope the new year brings you much happiness. For now, plan to keep the focus on you.
Well, after that emotional e-mail at Christmas I now find out he is living with OW. Actually, no surprise as he never denied still seeing her. An extraordinary thing happened. My sister has his number on her mobile. This morning her mobile rang and she heard 6 minutes of conversation from his mobile. It must have called her number up in error and she was able to hear their domestic" banter" as they got ready for work.She came round to tell me ,very upset. I said I never imagined that he was on his own.From what she related he is staying with OW and sounded ok. But hes always been good at shutting out unpleasant things. Maybe I am a fool but I know him fairly well after 29 years and believe that he still thinks about me. Also, he hasnt asked for divorce which he knows I am ready to do.I was going to text him to suggest a chat at half term- I am 60 in May and need to sort out financial settlements but feel upset by this and found it hard not to call him and leave an angry message on his phone.Its been18 months separated am I going to ever move on?
A, I cant believe how similar our sitches are. I am married 26 years and with him 31. The bomb was 19 months ago. He finally moved out three weeks ago. There is an ow. I too need to move forward with a legal settlement. I told him he has to file since he wants it, he hasnt yet.
So, I guess this is all part of it. So many similar stories, it really is unbelieveable.
I have waited way too long regarding the financials and need to get that sorted out. But I feel the same as you, it will be very difficult to remain friends.
I think for now, if you can, try to stay as dark as you can. They really need to sort this out on their own. I think he now knows that you think of him. So let it go for awhile. Any more might seem like pursuing. Leave the ball in his court for now.
Good luck and hugs.
beginnersmind,thank you. Weve been separated 20 months now and ive hung on and done everything right but after his Christmas message to find out he is actually living with OW is too much.Trouble is, Im 60 in May and really want to retire from teaching at least full time. But I wont be able to afford the rent here and our house in midlands empty 18 months wont sell.I fled back to my home town and family when it happened as I had a sort of breakdown it was such a shock. Ive sent him an e-mail-first contact for months- to ask him to keep his phone locked and said since he has moved on theres no point in remaining married. I asked him to look out for soliciters letters and not ignore them. I know this is a risk-its a big 180 for me- but Ive waited 20 months with very little contact and am now prepared and strong enough to go on with divorce.Im truly exhausted with this and know him so well- he is such an avoidant I can see myself in same limbo situation for years living in poverty.But my heart is breaking I love him still.Will you be able to get a legal settlement without a divorce? What will you do if he stalls like my H?Thinking of you love from England.
No, I cant get a legal settlement without a divorce. You have to file, there is no legal separation in my state. Once you file, it moves along pretty quickly. You have to do things by certain dates as they dont want to jam up the court system.
Once you start, there is no real turning back. Thats the scary part. H cant stall - neither can I.
If you truly feel like you cant do this anymore, then dont. There is nothing wrong with feeling like enough is enough.
The important thing here is to take care of you. Move forward and make a life for yourself. Do what you must to make yourself happy and financially secure, if you can.
best of luck to you.
Thanks for your good wishes. The waiting I can do. But I simply cant exist on my pension and his voluntary payments were infrequent,to say the least.So divorce is really my only option. That doesnt mean Ive given up. Im convinced he still cares about me very much but is nowhere near facing up to whats happened in his mlc confusion.His history is one woman after another and i cant see that changing. I hope some day he will reach out to me again but as you say I must look after myself and act as if hes not coming back.
A,
You must take care of yourself, both emotionally spiritually, physically and financially. Whether your h will return or not, you still have to find a way to survive. You must continue on your own journey and act as if he's not going to return. One day, he will reach out to you, but not completely at this time. Do what is best for you now.
Dear dear snodderly how I wish I could meet you in person and give you a big thank you hug.Your wise and encouraging comments over the past 18 months have given me so much comfort and support.The next few months are going to be hard. He will struggle with the settlement and no doubt feel resentment at it too. After that, when things subside, I feel strongly that he will reappear in my life. But It could be many many years ahead so I must put that thought out of my head and say right now hes gone, life is as it is, and Im on my own.I have a lot to thank God for.
A,
You are looking at life through clear eyeglasses, not the rose colored ones that your h is wearing. You are seeing reality for what it is and you know what? You are going to be just fine. You are grounded and very level headed and will continue on your own path and the world is waiting with open arms to help you along.
For me, it took about 6 years before my xh began to put his toe back into my pond. Even though throughout the years the phone calls and strange things happened around my home, he was not and still is not ready to face the consequences of his actions. He's one of those that will never return to the land of reality. He will continue to wear the rose colored glasses till the day he dies.
A, once you've decided what you want to do, move forward and know that no matter what happens...you are a survivor!
Funny how you think youre ok then something happens and you start to feel sad and depressed again. Took a walk into town-seemed to be couples everywhere looking foreward to their valentines evening. Of course I began to think of him and what he would be doing with ow tonight. He never bothered much with valentines day- I used to get a card but it was just going through the motions.There has been more silence since I e-mailed him that as he had seemed to have moved on and erased nearly 30 years there was no point in my remaining married.He is very frightened I know -he told me that in the Christmas e-mail- too scared and ashamed to contact me or even open my letters because of what he might find.I see my soliciter on Friday. I would continue to wait in limbo but need settlement as retiring soon.I think about him daily (as he wrote he thinks about me every day) and wish so much we could meet just to talk. Have asked him to call me but will not contact him again now.
A,
You have to take care of yourself first and foremost. Retirement is a big step...financially, and you must get your ducks in a row w/that coming up. I know it's not easy to have to make the decision as to what to do, but w/your retirement, etc., you really do need to look at the bigger picture here and know that you have protect yourself.
Yes, your h is scared to death of what he will read or hear in your voice about him and the situation. He knows that he's walked away from a good person and family and doesn't know how to fix what went wrong in his mind. Some day, he will contact you and want to talk to you. But first, he really needs to venture forth into his past and grow up. A, you've always been there for him and been the one to take care of things for him. Now, it's time to redirect that focus and take care of yourself.
Happy Valentine's Day!
Took a deep breath and went to see soliciter on Friday.She was calm and supportive and listened carefully. She is going to contact H and begin settlement arrangements. She told me not to finalise the divorce yet as if we are divorced and he dies before settlement I would be in a bad position.This suits me as I dont want a divorce at all! Still heard nothing since my e-mail. He is probably feeling guilty and embarrassed at being found out staying with OW .I read something the other day that comforted me a lot. It was posted on a board here for someone else who didnt want to divorce but had no practical option. She was told"Divorce wont stop you reconciling in the future any more than marriage stopped him having affairs." It is my firm beleif that he will come back into my life at some point-maybe just as a friend. I do believe his Christmas e-mail where he said that he thinks about me every day and cant sleep because I must think he is just getting on with life and doesnt care.He has always had no problem compartmentalising things and hiding his feelings.I am stronger by the day, the birds are singing,the sun shines,my little dog has such joy in life it lifts my spirits and God is in control.I feel I am more in control now too.
Had following e-mail from H 3 weeks ago.Feel so hurt at the cold tone,yet know at the same time he must be feeling awful. Have composed numerous responses in my head but kept silent.Its not the serial unfaithfulness and his leaving me that hurts, but the lack of communication from him after so many years.Can he really move on so readily?This is what he wrote-"Realise apologies aren't enough now. I will deal with this and let you know what is happening.
You probably know I had a call from your solicitor last week. She sounds like a nice woman. Thank you for asking her to do that. I'm seeing a solicitor on Friday 6th.
I couldn't send any money because I'm afraid I had a pretty big house bill at Cinder Road. The pipes froze in the kitchen in the very cold spell in January. Three pipes burst, the sink tap cracked open, the combi boiler was ruined and the kitchen flooded. Hired a dehumidifier to dry the kitchen and tried to keep the repair bill down by fixing as much as I could. But had to out and replace the combi boiler and tap. Had to get it done as needed to keep the house warm in case it happened again - has cost almost £2,000 to date. Am still putting the kitchen back together now. I didn't tell you because as I hadn't been able to ring you I felt that calling you just to tell you about the trouble I was having was just bleating. So I got on with it - loops within loops!
I'm so sorry Pad was subjected to that answerphone. I was mortified you and for her. For what it's worth it's not as it sounds and I am not living with anyone.
I hope you're okay.
Chris" He is ashamed. I know advice is to validate but I dont know what to do.Finances are going to be an issue or I would wait .I dont feel as if I will ever really get over this although I am surviving and trying to keep cheerful. The nights are the worst. I want so much to talk to him.Its been 20 months.
A,
You truly have not had a real "closure" to the death of your marriage. None of us had that and you'll eventually move on, but to say that you will completely get over it....no. There will always be this little piece/hole within that will never completely fill up again. You'll move on to the best of your ability, you will have to...for your family and especially for you.
As for your h, no one knows what will happen and if he will recover from his insanity of a crisis.
A, I wish that I could give you a hug. It's difficult, but you will find a way to survive. Be kind to yourself, cry when you need to and then look around you...the world continues on and the merry go round of life will beckon you once more. Hope on the ride and go w/the flow when you are ready.
Ive now seen
a soliciter and apparently he has one instructed too.We are due to exchange financial details prior to settlement on 22nd.My heart is truly broken-all our dreams and 29 years togetherness reduced to practicalities. I know he is feeling the same- guilty too despite being with OW. Am so tempted to write and say I can forgive everything except his ashamed silence and withdrawal at the end.Snodderly , you are right I long for closure and a final goodbye ;this is all wrong.
Well financial details have been exchanged but all is quiet. Im at peace with my descision to move to settlement even though it will end my marriage. I need a home- am 60 in a fortnights time- and cant manage financially without a split of the assets. I think of him every day and my heart aches just to speak to him but there are no tears left.I feel sure that we will connect again at some level in the future but now he cant face talking.Ive been having dreams about him and am obviously trying to process this- in the last one he was wrapped in cellophane(!)but seemed to be indicating that we could communicate and I woke feeling optimistic. In the meantime, my life is placid with work and family.We would have been married 30 years this December.
A,
I'm very, very sorry that things turned out the way they did. But, you needed to do something to protect yourself, assets and your future.
I agree w/you...at some point in time, you both will meet again and that's when you both will be able to sit down and have a conversation. The conversation may not be what you want to hear, but it will be a conversation that will allow you to see into his soul.
For now, take care of yourself.
Dear Arianne,
I wish I had found your thread sooner, but alas, tonight is the first time I've seen it. I actually read the first and last pages. On your first page, you asked if there is anyone who is in a similar sitch as you. I, am 56 years old, so I consider myself pretty similar to you, with all the financial difficulties etc.
So, some of our sitch is very similar, however, my H has not filed for divorce. I, was very confused myself last year at this time, and really just a total basket case. But throughout the year, I would ask for help and people seemed to think I was their punching bag. Perhaps they didn't know it, but many times I was more hurt by certain posters than helped, and often walked away from my computer completely distraught. As early as a week ago, it happened again. I've been insulted and verbally abused here. So, I don't post too much anymore. I guess my philosophy of life is different than most.
Now that it's been a year, I can look back and see that, although, my H NEVER calls me, and RARELY comes home or passes our house, I wonder if he's been lying to me all along. I cannot read him like you can read your H. He says one thing and really does something else. My feelings have NEVER been on his respect list, though now I really don't expect it anymore. My H has been much meaner than most.
The last time he spoke to me, he said he never reaches out to me, and to be true, he really does not. I can see that this time away from home has taken its toll on him. And, he has sent his marriage settlement agreement to me -- through his attorney -- a month and a half ago, but he still has not filed for divorce.
I have never had the great help and respect of a good advisor on these boards as you have, with snodderly. I was all over the place when I was first going through this. So, some of it was probably my fault. I didn't know any better, and now it doesn't matter. I've read some of snodderly's stuff, and she/he is very good. I think you can't get a better friend/advisor than that.
I hope some of what I said here soothes you. To be true, I feel your pain. I hope this message finds you well.
Have peace,
poet
Poet thanks for your reply-I dont check in every day as I used to-(a good sign I think) so only read it today. Truly, it is very hard to begin a new single life at nearly 60- I honestly thought we would grow old and care for each other together. So sorry to read that you havent had the support which I have had from this site- especially snodderly whom you mentioned -always grounded-never over emotional but calm ,practical and wise.Its been 2 years next week for me. Why do they not ask for a divorce? Ive decided in my case 3 reasons-
1- To keep all options open-he has been ambivalent from the start
2- Financial reasons (though he vehemently denies this)
3- He wants me to be the one who ends our 30 year marriage,it absolves him and diffuses some of the responsibility.
Do you think any of these reasons apply to your situation too?
How much communication do you have with him? Did he say what the reasons are that he never reaches out to you? Poet, it really sounds as if your H, like mine, is totally confused, unhappy, scared and resentful all at the same time. Ive been amazed, reading other posts.
, how they all say similar things.I hope you are bearing up- its awful being in a kind of limbo- and if youre being lied to, even worse. Im thinking of you anyway.Love and Peace Caroline x
Hello arianne/caroline,
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I -- like you --am trying to get back into the journey of living, while living apart from my H. And, so I don't check every day either. I guess if we both check in once a week, maybe we'll catch each other.
Anyway, to answer some of your questions, my one year anniversary of being separated is coming up next week. Our M anniversary is May 26th, which is Tuesday, and he left on May 29th. Nice huh? After much terrible fighting etc.
In answer to your question, "Why do they not ask for a divorce?" My H didn't ask me. He just announced it that he was going to get one, and then left. He never tried to work on our M, although he says he did. He was in a great big hurry one year ago, but that was when he was seeing OW. I don't think he's still seeing her, and although I caught him with her, he claimed she was just a "friend."
Your #1 statement, is probably true in that my H never actually filed. He put together a marital settlement agreement and had it delivered to me on April 2nd. He came home one day and said, "just sign the papers," like he expected me to just cave in for him. But as of yet, the papers are not signed, and I have no intention of doing so at this point.
2. I don't believe in my case that it's for financial reasons because he did bother to tell me he spent $1,200 (in April) on his attorney, so I can only conjecture that he spent that money on getting his marital settlement agreement completed. And since in the state of Florida, it costs $500 to file, I can't see how he wouldn't be willing to spend $500 on filing if he would be willing to spend $1,200 on the agreement. It just doesn't make sense. What's $500 more, right?
3. Well, I guess you could look at it that way, but really... if you think about it, the judge is going to see that he is the one who left you, and therefore would probably want/make him pay for the D. It's all only conjecture, but it makes sense. D is a senseless rampage that a person, the WAS wants. But, it's the judge who has to make sense of it all, and that is the bottom line. I don't think #2 and #3 apply to my situation only because I think my H is socking away his money (he's always been secretive, and I can reasonably see him hiding enough to do well after our D). And #3 is just a ploy to ease their own guilt.
Someone on these boards once told me to do NOTHING that will allow him to ease his guilt. So, that also applies to us not to file, don'tcha think?
Take care,
poet
A,
Your three reasons for why some of they do not request a divoce quickly are good ones. However, I also think that if you leave them alone, as you have, they do not feel like they need to lash out and end the marriage quickly. The more you push, the more they will shove back. You've left your h alone and he's felt threatened in the sense of needing to keep you away from him. You've allowed him the time and space he required to work on himself, or should I say "grow up".
Many do not reach out until much later...why? Depression and withdrawal, i.e., they go hand in hand. I wouldn't be too concerned if you didn't hear from him for long period of time. I didn't hear from mine for over 2 1/2 years. Then, because of the circumstances, he begged me to be friends w/him. We touch base periodically now, but the conversations are usually about family and when he inquires about me, I tell him I'm fine and do not share anything of my life w/him. He knows he royally screwed up, but unless he's willing to do the work, he'll never see the light of reality again.
They all have the same script and use it almost word for word. Actions are a bit different, but the script is always present.
A, I think you doing very well. Age has no bearing on being single, i.e., 60 is young in today's world. When you least expect it, life will offer up some adventures and surprises for you.
Enjoy your weekend.
Poet thanks for your reply-hope you didnt think I was being "nosey"
My H also timed it dreadfully- just as I was about to retire, sell the house and relocate to my home town and family,and days before my (58th) birthday.He said we both needed to "get a life and an adult relationship "and when I asked if he wanted a divorce he flustered and said he couldnt think of another way.Then, 6 months later when it was about to be finalised he said I had changed and asked for a hold. Naturally I agreed .I have worked so hard for the last 2 years to hang on . I love this weak and selfish man - I can see a good but confused person inside.I see what you mean about doing nothing to ease the guilt but in my case he ran from the guilt ie withdrew completely so all I c ould do was validate his feelings and be sympathetic even though he broke my heart and the pain and panic were appalling.Now, I have no option but to file because I cant afford to rent any longer- I need settlement to get a home.He is living with OW .There has been silence for 3 months. I can feel his fear and confusion 200 miles away!Snodderly, as usual spot on- I would bet that when he hits 60 in a couple of years time he will need his best friend. For now, he cant face me (or my family)Poet, I know everyone says this but its true- life goes on and somehow we will survive.Im hoping so much things are ok with you and every day gets a little easier. After all, we both have clear consciences- they have years ahead to face up to their mistakes.Love from England!
A,
They can't face anyone from their former life right now. In a couple of years, yes, a couple, he'll be able to do so. He needs to sweep all of this mess under the rug and allow things to settle down before he will venture forth in the world he left behind. It's typical of them.
Life does go on and trust me, you are a survivor and you will be just fine. Age is just a number...it's what you do w/your life that counts.
Thanks snodderly. Have heard from my soliciter about his finances and it looks as if Ill be ok with a fair division of assets. There is an unreal feeling about this as if its a game we are playing to see who blinks first- I long to contact him just to know he is ok but there again I would feel bad if he is happy (without me) and bad if he is unhappy!I do get lonely but know this is down to myself.Can they really erase so many years? I could understand it if we had had a stormy marriage but it was more like best friends really.He never shared his feelings.I knew he must be having affairs but carried on.Im ok during the day but wake up upset at night-guess thats normal.Thank you for your kind messages x
A,
Glad to read that you'll be okay with the fair division of assets. That's very important. Yep, it's like a game of sorts, but it's very, very real. You need to leave him alone and allow him to come to you when he is ready to contact you. No, the don't erase all of those years, they are stuffed down. People, men especially, are very good at compartmentalizing things. So the years you spent together are in a little box shoved in a corner of his brain and when he sleeps, that little box opens up and memories do drift around in that mess of a brain. He'll not admit it, but he does think of you often, and just like you, he thinks the most about the situation and you at night. Why? That's when things settle down and we have nothing else to focus on and our feelings/emotions take over and we think about things other than the normal day-to-day things.
Keep the focus on you. We cannot assume what he's doing r not doing. All we can do is look to what we are doing right now.
Snodderly should I be taking the same advice even though I am already divorced. My xh rushed the divorce to because of ow at the time and plus it didnt cost him nothing but filing fee of 175.00
A, you are in my thoughts. I to often wonder how they just FORGET all those years and move on so quickly.
Hugs,
Renee
Hi sunshine /Renee so sorry to read about your situation- a long marriage ended and for what?I do believe that Snodderly is right- they must think about us and the mess they have created. Your ex,unlike mine,rushed divorce through because he thought that would solve his problems. The fact that he has changed partners-younger girls -shows he may be in a mid life crisis I think.Do you ever see him ? Mine is too guilty to call!I also got the ILYBINILWY I think they have a script! Take care. We can live without these confused men for now-though I still love mine.
This is taking so long!Soliciter did say 6 to 9 months.Am impatient because I need the money to buy a place to live,and because I think that it will be after all is settled that he will make contact.No contact since his e-mail in Feb which I didnt reply to. Still hurt at night and long to talk to him as a friend.But life is good on the whole;its a strange feeling -the pain is still all there but sort of overlaid by lifes events and small pleasures. All this has taught me to look at the world differently and appreciate what I have.26 months on and I couldnt have made it without this site-people need to be told over and over again yes the pain and loss and panic are dreadful but somehow you plough through. I spent the first 18 months using every tactic I could to get him back. I was so obsessed by this that I really thought I would go mad.Then, gradually, I reached some kind of acceptance and would find that longer periods were passing when I didnt think of him.Now I can let him go more although I would hate to think that we will never meet again. I still love and care for him,weak,selfish,
,confused and serially faithless though he is.
Mine is too guilty to call!I also got the ILYBINILWY I think they have a script!
They _do_ have a script! Here it is:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960393&page=1Read it and weep...or, preferably, laugh!
Peace and blessings,
Dawn
Could be my H word for word-the ambivalence-the emotional withdrawal- the rewriting of history and blaming everything/everyone but himself and finally forcing me to file (for financial reasons or I would have never done it)Hard not to feel resentment BUT I am beginning to live a happy life and with such a big issue -30 years -unresolved and being denied by him he cant face me I dont think he will ever be at peace because at heart he is not a bad person.
After 6 months silence- this e-mail.
Dear Caroline,
Please don't be alarmed - this is not to circumvent your solicitor. This is an update on the house.
I'm moving back to Cinder Road in in the next few days. I can't afford to keep a flat anywhere else. Also my father is now really struggling to look after my mother so I need to be nearer to give him more help. This will also give me an opportunity to complete repairs (which I still haven't finished) and get the house in shape.
Bye the way I did ask my solicitor to word their last letter with care. It was sent without my final okay. I wish parts of it had not been so abrupt.
Christopher
So- he is moving back into our home after its been empty and unsold 2 years.Why did he e-mail me this info- he could have told his soliciter to let me know.I am not intending to respond as my feeling at the moment is that silence is golden.Great to hear from him though even in such a formal way.His pension and the eventual house sale have yet to be divided. This takes so long! I am living each day as it comes with many happy moments but I still miss him so much.
Am weakening and wondering-should I respond in a similar polite manner ?
For- It would get us talking again
It may ease the stress of communicating just through
soliciters
I can find out how he is doing
I can show him that I have moved on (not completely)
and am fine
It seems rude to ignore him.
Against-It may compromise my soliciters work
Not sure if I have misread his motives-maybe he does
not want to begin talking again was just stating facts
I may not want to hear how happy/unhappy he is
It would open up the emotional floodgates again eg
if I e-mail him back I will be back to waiting anxiously
for a reply.
I dont want to jeapordise us having a future relationship whatever form that may take.Should I hang on until after settlement? Can feel that he is still guilty and confused.
A,
It doesn't hurt to respond back with a kind note, i.e., just be careful what you put in it. No discussions about the relationship, finances, etc. Keep it very light and simple.
Thought hard about it- decided no.Better to leave him to come to me if and when.Any communication now would be strained.My daughter today dropped the bomb that her 14 year marriage to a kind and loving man, whom I am very fond of, is over.He has left at her request and is broken hearted.I know that my experiences have made her cynical. There are tears on my pillow again just as I was finding peace. Such is life.
A,
I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter's situation. I do hope things work out for her.
You know your h and your situation far better than we do. If you feel that you do not want to respond, then don't. You'll know when the time is right.
Please take care of yourself.
His soliciter has now asked for a medical "fitness to work" examination It hurts so much that he would consent to this extra humiliation for me.I know he is afraid, and worried that he will be paying maintenence for ever.Where is the care and consideration for someone who loved him and shared his life for 28 years? Im upset because I am beginning to hate him-that frightens me but my daughter says its healthy.And yet,I know he is not a bad person and will be feeling awful about this.I dont think I will ever fully recover from this.Have started to get the "night panics" again.One day at a time.
A,
I know it hurts terribly what he continues to do, but his lawyer may be the one requesting the fitness to work request. Your h may not have thought of that one on his own. It's a typical request in some cases. Advise your lawyer of the request and then have it done. BTW, you can request the same of him as well.
Keep in mind, when in a situation such as this, compassion went out the window. All that is playing in his mind is survival and not paying you one penny for anything. Time together, love, compassion, etc. are all now gone...it's all about business and that's how you to have to look at it as well.
arianne
I feel your pain and disappointment that your H (and/or his lawyer) would ask for this type of examination.
My xH did the same thing (or it was his Ls idead..doesn't matter, he didn't stop the L from demanding it).
It was humiliating and expensive. I've had a chronic health condition(s) since 1983. It kept me home for the better part of 20 years. I won't go into details, but after many tests and tries of treatment, there isn't really anything that can 'cure' the condition. You find a treatment plan that helps manage it the best you can, and learn to live with the ups and downs. This condition not only impacted my life, but also the life of my H and our children, and what we were able to do and not do. I always had thought he understood, and never really acted like he resented me because of it . So when his attorney demanded I go through this examination type of thing, I was completely floored! Why was he acting like he didn't know how severe and painful my life had been affected?
Anyway, I had to get several doctors testimonies as to the facts of my health problems, the treatments used, the probably future of employment/restrictions. It cost over almost 2K for these depositions. Money that I could ill afford since all my legal costs were my own, even though H was the one that filed.
Arianne, you will get through this...I promise you. You will come out all much stronger than you came into this. Hold your head high...with dignity and grace. You have nothing to be ashame of. He does, for even letting his attorney request this.
I made it through...I'm still standing...and you will be too.
As you've been told before, treat this like business matter..not the emotional roller coaster you actually feel like you're on.
My prayers will be with you!
Thank you so much snodderly and Creed for your kind words. Actually my health is fine for a 60 year old and I do intend to keep teaching part time - just signed a contract for two days a week -perfect.God seems to have provided for me all along the way-but not anwered my many prayers for reconciliation. He knows best.What hurts me most is that my husband knows that Im neither lazy nor avaricious. Afraid I shot off an angry/hurt letter to my solicitor(not her fault!)saying that I had always worked and contributed half and that he broke the contract and that I had expected a comfortable retirement etc.So hard not to get emotional but of course it is a business matter.He is now back living in our marital home. I left so much behind there will be memories everywhere for him.I still swear he is not a bad man and so the day he turns and looks this in the face I fear it will overwhelm him.Or not. Either way life goes on. Thank you again friends thank goodness for this site. Whenever I have posted in distress a reply never fails to comfort x
Still married! He hasnt finalised divorce and my soliciter says wait until settlement is agreed.This takes so long. My soliciter says he has asked if we could "get the house ready for sale together." (marital home in midlands been empty 30 months)This really took me aback- he has avoided contact with me as much as possible in the last 2 years and when we did meet it was terribly tense.Havent seen him for about a year. Contact since Feb has been through soliciters.Dont want to read too much into this,but still.....dont know how/if to respond. Have ignored his last 2 e-mails since I found out he was involved with O.W in Feb.Still think about him daily but my life is coming together. I dread the divorce.
A,
Follow the advice of your lawyer and get the settlement in place first. It sounds to me like your h wants to meet up with you and go over what needs to be done in order to sell the house. Whatever you do, get a second opinion when it comes to home repairs. I most certainly won't take on the burden of all of the repairs. If you do not feel comfortable meeting up with him, suggest that he go out and walk the property and get back to you with suggestions. I would do the same if I were you.
Your h is dragging his feet because he truly doesn't know what he wants and yes, he's had you as the safety net for quite some time. He knows that once the divorce is finalized, he will have no excuses about being married and contact will be minimal, more so than now.
A, I understand how you feel about dreading the divorce, but once it's done, the weight will be lifted off your shoulders and you can begin planning out your future and if your h should wake up, you then can determine whether or not reconcillation is in the cards for the both of you. But, that's a long way off.
Please take care of yourself.
Ditto to everything Snodderly suggested.
I know how hard it is not to try to read something into this new development, but you'll be so much better off if you don't..either way.
Dragging his feet? Probably so. But I also know that mine tried on the rare occasions he suggested we meet, tried to emotionally manipulate me into making a decision one way or another on certain things. Of course, most times I fell for it, and learned later not to meet with him alone..or just let my lawyer deal with his lawyer. I think most WAS MLCers know that our feelings for them are far from over...and they can/will at times use that to get their own way, whether it's an emotional, materialistic or financial advantage for them.
They may in MLC, but they sure ain't past being very conniving and manipulative...especially if there's another person involved, and they're secretly helping to plot your spouses words/actions with you.
I'm not saying this is what your H is doing, don't get me wrong. Just keep that new, independent person you're becoming independent from H when it comes to making decisions. Do what is right for YOU at this time. If he ever comes out of this, there will be plenty of time for the two of you to work on things that will benefit you BOTH.
Good luck and take care..keep that chin up
Thank you both for wise counselling.Truly, I dont feel I could face him right now. Although Ive learned to be alone I still miss him so much and care so much but mixed in is a whole lot of resentment that I havent allowed myself to feel up until recently as divorce draws near.I know him quite well-30 yrs-and I know he is dragging this out as long as possible.Why? Snodderly is right hes still confused he doesnt want me in his life or completely out of it- I feel that. So Im not reading anything into his request other than he doent want to sever all ties. More crumbs.Yes Creed he is certainly capable of deceit.But I know he will be feeling guilty and frightened and confused too. The weakest man Ive ever met!Thank you both so much for writing it helps to get an impartial view from others who have had turmoil in their lives also. God bless you both from rainy England!
Well the phone rang today out of the blue as Id thought it would one day and a quiet nervous voice said "Its Chris".After a years silence. He kept apologising for not calling and saying how wrong it was. Said he had kept all my cards and letters.He said he was fed up with spending cash on soliciters.He asked if he could have "a couple of months grace" before putting house on market and I agreed it will go on early Jan.(unlikely to sell between now and Christmas anyway)Said not a day goes by when he isnt thinking of me. Then said he is in York on Monday should we meet?I said I wasnt sure and would text him.I think the reasons for this call are
1) Guilt.Hes decent enough to know his silence was cruel and cowardly
2) Fear-he knows the marriage is really ending and he will be financially much worse off
3)Curiosity-would I still talk to him or see him?
4) He still cares- I believe-and genuinely wants to see me.
5) A chance to appeal to my feelings and get a better settlement.
Im quite sure these are correct interpretations.I have no idea right now if I will meet him or not. I want to,but have to examine my motives. Theres no evidence that he wants a reconciliation so I need to view it as a business type meeting.
It probably would be best to say no on an emotional (and divorce-busting principles) level but I am as weak as him!Snodderly if you read this Id really appreciate your advice.
Hi Arianne
I think there's a little voice telling you to bow out of this invitation. Heed it. Although curiosity might get the better of you, if you felt any twangs of emotion when he suggested this meeting, it probably means he still occupies a large space of your heart/mind. It might be better if you decline, and when it gets closer to selling the house, then get together to conduct business. If this IS about his regret, misc., he will somehow continue to keep contacting you.
I do think it is a very wise decision not to put the house on the market until after the holidays. People really don't seem to go househunting that time of the year anyway.
If you decide to decline the invite, just do it in a straightforward, friendly way. If he is sticking his head out a little bit, no use knocking it clear off by being too cold or indifferent. LOL
Perfect advice which I shall take! Had more or less decided that seeing him wasnt a good idea right now.Thanks so much for your response.I know he wants to see me out of curiosity (and care) but also to use a little emotional leverage!I must be moving on- 6 months ago I would have jumped at the chance and spent all day getting ready. Truly,time heals and changes. Still love the guy though.
A,
That's quite an interesting phone call that you received. It appears that he's running of money and doesn't want to spend any more on the solicitors right now. Maybe he's trying to sweeten the pot for himself by wanting to meet w/you. Who knows at this point. But you know what? You won't know what is on his mind unless you actually sit down and speak w/him.
If I were in your shoes, I'd meet up w/him, but keep your mind in the business mode and listen to what he has to say. It's the only way that you will finally get some idea as to what he's thinking about. However, keep in mind, you will need to really, really listen to what he's saying for he will be mixing the true reason for the meeting up with a bunch of garbage when he's talking to you.
If you do not feel comfortable meeting w/him, then don't do it, But for myself, I'd be a bit curious to hear what he has to say and see him.
Good luck!
Wrote an e- mail-businesslike but couteous-saying that I was too afraid to meet him in case he used emotional pressure regarding the settlement. I told him that if settlement isnt agreed between us by Jan. when house goes up for sale then Ill take it to court for their decision. Ended by saying I hoped he was happy with himself,his choices and his future.Recieved this e-mail by return-Dear Caroline,
I understand. I thought you would be full of trepidation about meeting - I am too. I hadn't even planned to ring when I did or thought of suggesting a meeting but I couldn't help it - being as I will be in York. On my life I would not dream of trying to apply emotional pressure. There's not a day goes by when I don't think about you and pray you are ok. I too would be in danger of succumbing to emotional pressure - probably more so than you.
I know you have made a better life for yourself and have gathered your strength. I don't want to disturb you that for you. But I was so glad to have spoken with you. Thank you for giving me a few months grace. I'm just empty at the moment and need to get some strength back. I'm living like a bit of a hermit at the moment but I think its necessary to take stock.
I can't afford to employ a solicitor so I'll to continue this myself.
I hope you're right about a job coming up. If so I will consider buying you out. In the meantime I will get some estate agent valuations.
I'll keep in touch by phone and email.
Bless you Caroline and keep you safe and happy.
Christopher x
So- this is a turn up after so long a silence. Feel far too overwhelmed to interpret this.How best to respond?
A,
I wouldn't respond to his note...let it go for a bit. If you respond, you'll continue the communication back and forth and this will eventually create emotional upheaval for you.
Focus on what's important right now...you and what you need to do to get to the other side.
Thanks snodderly this has caused enormous upheaval in my mind. I will leave things to settle now as you suggest.At least there is some movement and communication now. Doesnt it sound to you as if he is still deep in MLC? His kind words just churn me up although its only words of course. Thank you for advice and comment.
A,
Your h sounds like a very confused little boy. Deep in MLC? I would venture to say that he's a depressed individual who can't make up his mind as to what he wants. Guilt has really eaten him up and it's going to take a long time for him to forgive himself.
Step back and allow the man upstairs to work on him.
Well despite his last emotional message Ive heard nothing since. Its our 30th anniversary on the 19th. Should I send a loving and supportive message indicating I still have strong feelings for him or continue to wait ? he is clearly confused and depressed.Maybe just a friendly card? its odd he hasnt pushed the divorce but seems scared to talk also. Meanwhile,Im much stronger and even declined to meet him last month. Now I wish I had!
I don't recommend a loving and supportive message. Maybe just a short, "Thinking of you today." But nothing that looks pursuing.
A,
I wouldn't send anything at this time. A card of any time at this time would look like pursuit. He's all over the place and he may look at the card as another way to make him feel guilty about what he's doing. I would take myself out for a nice meal and try to enjoy the day on my own and maybe w/a few friends. Don't expect anything from him...as he doesn't want to "lead" you on. If he does contact you, then you can tell him that you were thinking of him.
Keep the focus on you...
Nothing appeared on our anniversary but he sent this the next day-
Dear Caroline
The last 2 months have been pretty awful so I have not been able to give any time to the letters from your solicitor. I picked up a message from her but I didn't get back because I didn't want to go through any circumstances with her. I'm sure she is a decent enough person but she's a stranger to me.
My mum has been deteriorating rapidly and dad couldn't cope any longer so we decided to organise respite care. She had 8 days in a respite home and came out with a chest infection, severe dehydration and a UTI. She had to go to Dudley Road Hospital for 3 weeks. When she came out I picked up swine flu and the bloody thing laid me flat for 3 weeks. Then mum picked up another chest infection in the last 2 weeks and went back into Dudley Road last week. Last Monday I thought she would'nt make the weekend. But she seems to have pulled through the worst and hopefully she will be out before Christmas.
Sorry this sounds woeful. I just thought if you knew the circumstances, you would see I'm not sitting on the letters hoping everything will go away - I know it won't. Everything has been shelved - jobs, christmas etc. I've got to see mum settled when she's out and support dad till she is. But I will study the options your solicitor has given and respond to them in early January. Please let your solicitor know.
Thank you for sending the Christmas card to mum and dad. That meant a lot.
And it was our wedding anniversary yesterday - a Saturday as well. I was thinking about you and sending good thoughts.
Bless you Caroline and I hope you have a good Christmas. It's not reasonable to send my good thoughts to your family but please pass them on if you think its ok to do. Love to Pad especially.
Christopher x
Naturally this has put me in a turmoil again-he has never lied to me (though hidden the truth about his affairs) so I believe this. I want to give him emotional support at this time but how to do it without seeming "pushy?"I havent sent him an anniversary or Christmas card.If anyone can spare a moment at this busy time to give me advice Id be grateful. A very happy Christmas to all my friends on this site especially dear snodderly without whose calm wisdom I would have gone under .
A,
I would send a note and say something like this, "h, I'm very sorry to hear about your parents. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. I'm glad they have you to assist them. I'm sorry to hear that you were laid low for three weeks with the swine flu. Hopefully you are feeling better now. Please take care of yourself. Merry Christmas."
Just respond back to those items he mentioned. I wouldn't bring up the papers at this time because he's got his hands full w/his parents. He'll get back to them after he sees his mother settled and recovering at home.
Merry Christmas and may the New Year be brighter for you!
Thanks snodderly I waited and calmed down for a day or two and then wrote as you suggested-caring but not too intrusive.His Mum is very old he is an only son and very close to his parents and will be devastated when her time comes.My impulse is to go up and support him but I offered help if he needs it and have to step back now. Isnt life a mixture of the wonderful,funny and tragic?Do have a lovely Christmas x
I'm glad you sent him a note. He knows that he can talk to you and you will be supportive of his parents, etc.
Wishing you and your family a Merry Christmas.
An Emotional Christmas. I got a 6am Happy Christmas text from him and sent friendly one back. Texted him a simple " Happy Birthday" on 30th and got this by return.Dearest Caroline,
Thank you for your happy birthday text - it meant a lot.
I'm off to visit mom shortly with dad. My mom's illness and the vulnerability of mom and dad over these last months has given me the opportunity to look after them and has made me think about I how can be a better person. I guess its my moms parting gift. So there are some things are I would like to say that I've wanted to say to you for some time. They are my deepest regrets but I hope you won't think I need to be rescued from feeling them. This doesn't require a reply. There's quite a list but I'll restrict myself to the things that stand out the most.
You trusted me enough to go through the childhood you never had as a girl and I pushed you away. I didn't recognise it because I was selfish and childish. I am so sorry. I kept myself apart and took no part in your family life. That must have been so hurtful. I regret that so much. I was self centred and ridiculous. I wish I'd have acted more responsibly and been more like a grown man to you. There's no point going through the rest - all else came from that.
I will be wishing you well this new year with all my heart.
Christopher x
Responded by saying that I was not blameless- I saw he was unhappy but denied it ,but that I wasnt going to rescue him from his regrets and yes,he did hurt me.I said we had both learned a lot in the last 3 years and that I cared very much for the good person that he was. I wished him well.
Now, he is supposed to respond to my soliciters 3 financial options by the end of this month. Nothing yet- he is still frozen. I sense his great regret but not sure how to go on with this. I still have strong feelings for him but have learned to live alone.Should I remain detached and silent unless he contacts me, or broach the subject of the settlement/divorce which neither of us mentions?
A,
Are you ready to divorce him and move on? If you aren't, which, I don't think you are, then sit quietly and be patient. The only real question here is what do you want?
I would agree that you can do nothing. I made X make all the moves.
I am glad that I did that as I will never have the "what if" question.
Havent posted for a while- been a long and lonely time. He is very reluctant to sell house and is making all sorts of excuses -wont drop price ,says it needs decorating etc. Has not filed his financial statement with the court,due on April 22nd. More stalling.The first hearing is next Thursday- I havent seen him for 2 years now and am terrified at the thought of seeing him again,let alone legal wrangles.House must be sold -I finish work in July -cant afford rent after that.Feel I cant cope with this much longer. Im 61 and on the verge of being homeless. I still care for him so much and know he is scared,guilty,regretful and resentful all at once but it hurts so much that someone I spent 30 years with can leave me to sink or swim.
I've been wondering where you have been. I'm sorry that he's stalling with everything. Sounds to me like he doesn't want to let go and yet he's not made a move to return home. This is where it gets tough, i.e., when you know things have to be done in order for you to survive.
I do hope that you are being kind to yourself. Are you taking care of yourself?
The first hearing was awful. I had wondered if he would turn up-its a 3 hour drive for him-and my soliciter wanted to talk to him face to face before we went in front of judge to try to reach some agreement. He turned up 10 minutes before we were due for hearing and was shown into a seperate room. My soliciter went in to talk to him but came out after 5 minutes saying that he was becoming really upset.I wanted to rush to him of course but both my sister(there for support) and soliciter said give him time to collect himself. The hearing was moved to an hour later. After a while my soliciter went back and put her/our new proposals for settlement. H had turned down earlier proposals so we came down a bit to what I considered a fair split. She returned and said he had agreed to reduce house price and conduct all viewings with estate agent present.He still felt settlement high(75% of house sale in full and final settlement not touching his pension or claiming maintenence)but needed time to think about it. Asked if he could see me so I went into the little room where he was waiting and we were left alone. Im afraid I ran into his arms and he held me and sobbed and sobbed. I hadnt seen him for 2 years. He looked awful- suit grubby,unshaven,really down at heel.He said he "talked to me every night" and couldnt bear the thought of not ever seeing me again. We discussed other stuff like his parents recent death but I felt so overwhelmed at being with him again I forget most of the conversation. I did ask "How did things with Helen pan out?" -woman he left me for he shook his head and said it didnt.In court,judge arranged 2nd hearing date and hoped we could reach agreement by then. He left then and I got a "bless you x" text nothing since. I cant say how much this has put me in an emotional turmoil I feel cruel but he caused this.I still love him I guess.
Of course, you still love him. You will always have a place in your heart for him, but as time moves along, the love you are still experiencing will become a different type of love. You have done nothing wrong here. Your h has had every opportunity to return home. The hearing may set him back a bit and give him plenty to think about, but time will tell on that one.
I'm sorry it was such an emotional time for you. However, you were given an opportunity to see that his life has not been a bed of roses and now he must complete his journey. You have your own journey to finish up and I suspect your journey will bring you peace and healing much quicker than his.
Be kind to yourself. You have done nothing wrong here. You had to protect yourself financially and there's nothing you could have done differently.
Thanks snodderly for wise counselling. It would have been easier if H had been cold and defensive but to see him so broken and confused hurt. Although my sister did not believe it was genuine!As you say I have to do this but wish I didnt.Where is a lottery win when you need it?
Why does your sister think he's not genuine? Is it because your divorce isn't final yet and she thinks he's playing mind games w/you?
Hope you are feeling better today.
She is very protective of me. She is afraid I will be hurt further.He has a long history of serial unfaithfulness and letting me down. She has seen the pain of the last 3 years when I thought I would go mad and never survive without him ( I was abandoned at 2 and have dependency issues).Ive lived with him 28 years and although he was always a private person -secretive- I reckon I know him better than anyone else. He is vain and weak but basically not deliberately cruel. He has never said anything unkind to or about me except that day in 07 when he broke down and said he couldnt move to my home town with me in retirement,as planned.Right now he will be feeling frightened,guilty,regretful and resentful.Basically he doesnt know what he wants and is still floundering. At one point I told him that after the divorce I never wanted to see him again,but now I have accepted my life on my own and would like to be his friend.I know he doesnt want to let go either.
We have just accepted an offer on the house. He made a counter offer in settlement to my soliciters proposal and I agreed to it. Settlement is ok- I think its fair- but Ill struggle to buy a house.He seems upbeat- has called me twice in last 2 days to ask which remaining things I want and what he can throw away.
Considerate of him to bother- I dont contact him and he could have just got rid of everything. Keeps saying" I think about you every day" Im afraid when I talk to him I forget all divorce busting principles and end up saying things I shouldnt. For example " I hope we will still see each other" " I suppose I should send the divorce absolute form off now I dont want to" and
"if you are ever homeless you can stay here" After I put down the phone I hate my needy weakness.Truth is I still care so much after 3 years separation. He is clearly still mixed up-he recently lost both his parents and is now applyng for jobs after being out of work for a year so his life is as uncertain as mine.
I have lost the feelings of despair and panic but I dont think I will ever really get over this. Strange, all the long stretches of months,nearly years, when I heard nothing from him I felt calmer. Recent events have made this divorce real although we are more in contact.I am certain of two things. Right now he has no thoughts of a reconciliation;and he is afraid that I end up hating him and stop all contact as I always said I would as soon as we divorced.
Of course he's going to be so very attentive and concerned about where you are going to stay. He knows darn good and well that he's the reason for you having to sell and move out. Of course, he doesn't want you to cut all contact, he would then be forced to look in the mirror and see the immature cad he truly is.
A lot of them pull these stunts just before the divorce. They don't want us to harbor ill feelings for them and, of course, they want to come across so nice and concerned for all to see.
Nothing says you will end up hating him, but I can tell you this...if I were in your shoes, once everything was finalized, I'll go completely dark on him for a while. He needs to realize what he's done and what he actually has lost...YOU!
Well,theres nothing special about me really, but I loved him and put up with his infidelities and emotional reserve for 28 years without complaint- I guess I got what I deserved by not having enough self respect. I agree,so far Ive been nice and accomodating ,swallowing everything I want to say,I am really going to make an effort to be polite but formal from now on and keep my distance after the divorce.Thanks snodderly.
Please stop beating your self up and putting yourself down. No one, and you included, deserved the treatment that we have been dealt by our spouses.
There is absolutely no way that you could have prevented what he's experiencing. This trip that they are on is all about themselves and growing up. We were not there to protect them when they were young....
As for you, this is a time for you to spread your wings and soar. Life is far, far too short to live in the past. Look to the future, for you will get there in time. Live in the present and know that life will be good again, in time.
What happened was about him ,and nothing I could do could change it. For 3 years I have employed best divorce-busting tactics and bent myself into a pretzel to try to win him back. But I know it wasnt about me or my shortcomings. Having said that, perhaps if I had been less passive by accepting his treatment of me- he might have had more respect. In a way, I feel I almost trained him to behave so badly because of my meek acceptance of it.I am trying hard to look forward but the wounds still hurt.I know he isnt happy now and I care about that.... but I will survive like everyone else on this website because I have to.Life goes on and my happiness cant depend on one person. You think that you will go crazy with grief but something keeps you moving on...
A,
Divorce-busting tactics are not only to try to save your marriage, but to you assist you along the way. They are tactics that you can apply in your day-to-day life each and every day.
You can't win someone back who is already out the door and has his mind made up that he's not coming back. However, you can leave the door ajar and hope that some day, he'll take a long hard look in the mirror and come to realize that what he's been seeking was there right in front of his face all of the time. Your h is like most of them here, broken emotionally a long time ago by something tragic in their past. We can't bring out the glue to fix them...only they can choose to do that. What we can do is step back and allow them the space and time to heel.
A, no matter what, you will always have feelings for him, but you cannot put your life on hold. Grief takes time to get through and then one day, you begin to notice things around you once again. Give yourself time to grieve, but please, do not put your life on hold. Every day brings promise of new adventures and life is waiting to embrace you once again. God does have a special plan for each and every one of us...we just have to be patient.
This is such a difficult time. Ive been getting friendly texts and even a long chatty phone call on Sunday.Neither of us saying what we really feel its always been that way.I keep composing bitter letters to him in my head telling him how my retirement is ruined and how cruel he was to deceive me for 30 years. But I dont think it would be worth the momentary satisfaction of sending to him. We have two couples interested in the house -think he realises now he will have to move. I still dont want to divorce him but will have to once I receive settlement. What then? I do get distressed after contact everything churns round in my head again.Its been a roller coaster 3 years with him sitting withdrawn on the fence the whole time.Would always take him back even though I can see he is a damaged and selfish person.Dont feel I can move on as long as we are having this contact but cant ignore his e-mails or calls.Snodderly, how do I leave the door ajar without seeming needy or pushy? Its so hard to be light and friendly to someone who broke your heart.
You can leave the door ajar...being civil/friendly doesn't mean that you have to respond to his emails/texts/calls right away. If you do not feel that you can move on w/the constant contact, cut it back a notch.
He needs to learn and understand that what he has done has created a mess and a divorce is in the making. You, on the other hand, have to set some boundaries about the contact and only you can do that.
Arianne,
Write those damn letters. Let it all out. Say all the things you are dying to say and can't or won't, because it would be unwise. Write pages and pages. Make a journal of it. Then Burn it. I know that sounds corny, but it actually works. I felt so much better after I got it out. Word to the wise - don't do it in the house, it sets the smoke alarms off.
Got back from a short holiday break to find a text message asking me to contact him asap to discuss offers on our house. He finished message with a X (see -Im still looking for clues)I rang him and we discussed how much we would sell house for.As usual I heard how hard he was working on keeping it clean and saleable,how many unsuccessful job applications he had written and how he didnt know where he would go when house was sold-oh,and how he was now afraid to open creditors letters.Things really do seem bad for him although I guess he laid it on a bit.Im trying so hard not to feel bitter but the phone conversation was cool and he must have sensed it.If he suggested a reconciliation now (unlikely!) I would be in turmoil.What a total mess he has created.Still,I want to be his friend if I can.
A,
I hope the vacation break was peaceful and restful for you.
As for your conversation w/your h, he's play the "poor me" song about everything that is not going well in his life. I know that you want to be a friend to him, but please be careful not to fall into his bottomless pit of poor me. Sometimes they do this so that we will feel sorry for them and back off on what we are going for. W/the pending sale of the house, he may very well hope that you'll decide to give him more of your share or offer him additional funds. Please, please do not fall for that.
A, your h needs to grow up and learn from his mistakes. You, on the other hand are the mature adult here and are striving to live your life to the fullest as best you can.
House sale going through.Had an unexpected call from him last Saturday early morning. He started off saying" Oh love to think its come to this ..."then told me how bad things were for him ( no money no job no friends cant pay bills- all true-)and just as I was about to tell him how much I still thought about him and how much I still miss him after 3 years separation he asked me to reduce the settlement! I was so hurt to think this was really the only reason for his call. I said no, he was already getting a good deal considering he chose to end a 30 yr marriage .I later sent an e-mail which I now regret telling him that he broke my heart and not to contact me again. The phone went immediately, I didnt answer it. I then received a text message saying that he didnt mean to hurt me, he thought about me daily but imagined I wouldnt believe that, and that he would ring me later . He hasnt, yet.Snodderly you were right as usual. But he is in such a mess its very hard to remain detached.
A,
Stick to your boundaries and your settlement. Do not lower it.
BTW, I'm so sorry that it appears that he only called you about the settlement. No one really knows what goes on inside their heads at any give time. The most important thing is to take care of yourself.
House completion date is next Friday. After much negotiation we agreed on settlement. He talked me down to 70% of house sale only -no maintenence or any of his pension. He has big debt like me and cant find work.Could have fought for more but have run out of strength and money to pay soliciter. He e- mailed me that he didnt know what to say and that he would always care and think about me. Daughter says he is eaten up with guilt and its true.Now I am supposed to send off our decree absolute letter to court but I feel my hearts breaking all over again.I still think about him so much especially in the small hours.But 3 years on this nightmare is coming to an end and soon I will look for a retirement place and get on with the time I have left.
A,
I'm so sorry about your situation. Once the dust has settled, you will be able to think clearly and decide where you would like to retire to. Give yourself plenty of time to heal. It doesn't happen over a few days.
As for your h's guilt, it is his to own and do not buy into it. He's had many opportunities to do the right thing, but he hasn't.
Look to the future and know that no matter what happens along the way, you will be okay. You are a survivor!