My prior thread locked up.
Go
here for the most recent recap.
Last week, W has filed a Domestic Violence Protection Order against me. I think it is ludicrous, but it means, until the hearing, I cannot contact my children. I haven't seen them or spoken to them in 10 days.
I woke in the middle of the night last night and wept.
Today I want to have a good day.
Sunday I will get to see my kids, if all goes well.
---
I honestly think that she is filing this order, I don't know, maybe to delay everything? I was emailing her back-n-forth on the temporary orders - financial and time with the kids. I think she cannot bear to imagine splitting the kids 50/50 with me. She considers herself their mom, their one true parent, and divorcing and giving up 50% of that time, I would think that would be very hard for her. She is clinging to the children.
She's losing pretty much everything else - the house will be sold. We've already moved across the country from the rest of our family and friends. Her OM is 1000 miles away, and I'm not sure of the status there but it looks to be a cool "friend" relationship now. So we ccould say she "lost OM". She's lost me; I'm out of the house. (Look, I know she
says that I was the source of all her problems, but hell I Was a constant companion, always there, every night, I listened, I helped her in the house, brought her flowers, and so on. I know she must miss that). With a divorce she will lose her red convertible car (bought for her 40th bday), her independence & lifestyle. She'll likely need a job. She's losing so much. I think the DVPO is a way to cling desperately to the children.
I don't believe it will be upheld. She had originally asked for a drastic remediation - she didn't want me to see the kids ever again. Taking to new extremes the art of rewriting history, she cast me as a 22-year abuser, and her as the helpless victim standing by all those years.
The truth is that I have a temper. I have raised my voice in the house. I don't anymore (Well, I'm not in the house anymore, but I don't yell anymore). I have never called my kids or my wife names or insulted them hurtfully. I do not strike them. We spanked them years ago, but long ago W and I had a talk and decided to stop spanking. I have never punched a wall. I have never threatened anyone with violence.
It feels like a desperate ploy on her part.
I feel her pain, and mine too.
It's a darn shame that she is taking it this way.
a darn shame.
I don't know what it is like where you live but where I live once you make that accusation and file charges, it goes to court. It takes about six months and the person who did the filing has to testify against you and yes, you get your chance to speak before the judge as well.
You might want to check into this because it might get to the point where they will not allow you to have any contact with your kids.
Get a GOOD attorney, okay? It's totally stupid, but the way the laws are written these days, the burden is on YOU to prove you're NOT an abuser.
I've seen this happen to several guys here on the boards, I think there must be a manual out there that says "Step number 15: Make a false abuse accusation against your spouse."
Ellie
Thanks for the support.
I do have an attorney. I'm a little concerned that she (my attorney) is not completely signed up for the path I am now on. It took me by surprise, and her, too. My attorney is more of a mediator/collaborative negotiation type of person.
In my original post I wrote:
I don't believe it will be upheld. She had originally asked for a drastic remediation - she didn't want me to see the kids ever again. Taking to new extremes the art of rewriting history, she cast me as a 22-year abuser, and her as the helpless victim standing by all those years.
And I say "originally" because, after I contacted family friends, and after she contacted her attorney, she withdrew the demand that I never see my children again. I am not drawing a causal relationship there, between the communication between me and friends, and her and the attorney, but it may be there. The DVPO sure seems unwise and unwarranted, maybe her attorney is cautioning her to get real. Maybe her friends are. Who knows.
ps:
My prior threads are here:
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4
Unless she has proof that you abused our kids, then the court might throw it out.
They may call the kids in to testify or provide statements.
> They may call the kids in to testify or provide statements.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to dragging the kids through all of *that*.
Two years ago, my H was drunk and hit me and I called the police on him. Then he pushed me around a few months later and I did the same thing. He is not normally like this but it was a nightmare what had happened.
If you want you can email me.
I'm sorry to hear about that, SF. That's no good. I'm sure it was scary for you.
I've never done that to my wife or kids.
Her statement in the petition for protection says otherwise, though. It says I chased her through the house, grabbed her, blocked doorways, cornered her, etc. None of this is really true, although I am certain she believes it to be true. There are no allegations of "hitting", slapping, etc. Thankfully. And she hasn't alleged that I threatened her with a weapon, thankfully.
I believe she is afraid I will "take the children from her." Her actions seem to indicate she has a great deal of fear, specifically about *that*.
She seems to be very troubled.
At this point I think I would be very satisfied with my kids having a sane mommy. DBing is sort of a pipe dream now.
My H was in the thick of his MLC when this happened otherwise he is very gentle.
SPM -
My word we are very parallel in our experiences. That has to be why we've been directed here to this site andwhy you choose to chime in on my thread.
Let me explain...
My W is claiming that she is "physically, emotionally, and psychologically afraid of me." When I found out about the affair when it was in its infancy and questioned it, she said "Two weeks of bad decisions on my part doesn't make up for 10 years of abuse on yours." This is her game plan to divorce me.
You wrote:
The truth is that I have a temper. I have raised my voice in the house. I have never called my kids or my wife names or insulted them hurtfully. I do not strike them. I have never punched a wall. I have never threatened anyone with violence.
I have a temper too and was very overreactive during our arguments in the past. I have never threatened her or my D and I've never, ever hit her or even had the thought cross my mind. However, in her mind, I was a massive scary monster.
Your other quote below also relates quite well with my situation.
I think I would be very satisfied with my kids having a sane mommy. DBing is sort of a pipe dream now.
I'm not sure if I can DB my marriage successfully either at this point. I'm not sure if she's completely gone or not. My W's blind faith in the OM has me very concerned, but I am with you 100%.
I would rather lose my marriage for good than to have my W continue to be unhealthy for my D. The most important thing is the welfare of my D, so to make sure that happens, her mommy needs to be psychologically healthy.
I really know where you are at right now, SPM. We have to hang in and continue to see where things go.
RTL
RTL, I'm sorry for you. I know what it is like to have a partner turn on you. It's horrible.
I resolve to not be bitter toward her, or about my life. I don't think I "deserve" this, but then who among us deserves misfortune? Who deserves a tornado to detroy their house? Who deserves a car accident? Who deserved Hurricane Katrina?
So I don't "deserve" this, but this is what I get. And I'll deal with it. I always felt we had the option to take a positive path forward together. I felt blessed by God that I had a happy healthy family. Well now my wife is not so healthy. I was still blessed for a long time, and for that I am thankful.
Now I will have to earn my blessings. Now is the time when I will show what I am truly worth. I am being tested by fate and I will rise to the test. I will do the right thing. I will not turn bitter. I will remain positive. I will seek and find beauty in life. I will treasure my loved ones. I will appreciate the little things. I will smile and laugh and share what I have with those who could use it.
I will never stop fighting for the welfare of my children. I will never let another's pain or hurt cause me to lose sight of their innocence, their beauty. I will Be The Man I am destined to be.
SPM,
Awesome attitude. My heart goes out to you. Whatever happens, you will be OK.
Bomb
Thanks Bomb! And you, too. I know you'll be ok, too.
Yesterday I saw my kids for the first time in 10 days. They seemed a little cool toward me, but mostly they were all acting as if nothing had happened, as if there was no 10 day interlude. (I have never gone this long without speaking to my kids). The youngest was a little distant from me, she only said "No" in the car, in response to every question I asked her. This has been her way for a month or so now. After a while we made the "No" a game. I asked her "what's your favorite color?" and the answer was "No." We all laughed as it got more and more ridiculous.
My friend, just before I left to go get the kids, told me -"look, don't try to catch up all in one day." What he meant was, my W is not being an adult here. The kids' manners are not what they were before. They don't comb their hair, they're grumpy and moody about the arrangement, and so on. He was encouraging me to see it from THEIR side. It's hard on them. So go easy. Be extra patient with them. He was so right.
Anyway we had a nice time. We went to a coffee shop for some hot cocoa, and to just talk. I haven't seen them or talked to them in so long. My youngest (D6), the distant one, told me she didn't want hot cocoa. Well I got one for her anyway. And of course she enjoyed it. By accident she spilled her cocoa on S11. Whoops! I didn't get cross or upset at all. We moved to another table, I got her another cocoa, and then guess what! Yes, she spilled it again. She was excited, nervous maybe. Poor girl. Again I didn't get cross. We just cleaned up and that was it. She felt embarassed. I kissed her forehead.
Later we went to a bookstore and did something I haven't done in more than a month. I invited my daughter, the six year old, to read with me. I had the new Fancy Nancy book, which she adores. She responded that she would read it to me. Oh, how happy that made me! I'm crying right now, remembering it. We sat together, my daughter and me, and she read a book to me. Ah, it was heaven. I used to do this every night with them. It has been soooo long for me.
Everyone got a book. It was sunny outside, so we went to play. We played frisbee and follow-the-leader, and generally just giggled and ran around. We went out for pizza. We held hands, we hugged. We play acted. We rolled down a grassy hill. We walked backwards. We looked for four-leaf clovers. We played some more. We got chilly and went to my friend's house. Then it was time to take them back.
It was great. All too short!
SPM,
I'm so happy for you. You had an awesome day with your little ones. I'm praying you will get them more and more in the coming days.
I'm also on-board with your attitude about thanking God for your blessings and moving forward. I am mourning the marriage I buried yesterday, but I was toasting the good times we had. The times my W chooses not to remember.
I know how you feel -- it is terribly sad to sit by and not be able to help someone you love who is struggling. However, that is what we must do. If we try to help, they'll pull further away.
Instead, we have to sit back and wait to be asked to come to their aid and that invitation may never come. That is the saddest part.
However, I too agree not to become bitter about my situation. I am following your lead and advice and I'm so thankful for you to be here for myself and others who need friendship and support.
You are a strong man and you will continue to be blessed and grow in positive ways based on your actions during this most difficult of times.
Keep going strong, my friend. I'll stay in touch and keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
RTL
Woo-hoo! Today was a good day. I spent the afternoon with the progeny. We tossed the football. We rolled in the grass. We played imaginary games (I was the culprit and my six-year old was the judge. Apparently I had been caught stealing cattle and other livestock.) My nine-year old hypnotized me. I held hands and gave lots of hugs. We went to a movie. We had ice cream.
One thing that brightened my day, is that the kids kept bringing up the old days - and memories they really treasured. Like our old house, and the games we used to play in the park. Like the shed they built with me at the old house - It was really a garden shed but I built a top floor in it for them, with a hidden porthole window, for spying on people. They remembered the games we used to play there, the garden we planted. Even as my W can remember none of the good stuff, or maybe it is only that she cannot bear to remember it, the kids can and do remember that stuff. And that is a huge boost for me. It makes me feel sane. They share the view that I have, of our family, of our time together, and for that I rejoice inside.
Today I also took some positive steps towards financial sanity. That's helpful.
I am looking forward to tomorrow; I will spend most of the day with an attorney preparing my motion for temporary orders - meaning a schedule for when I get the kids, and how we split my income. This is me taking positive action. As part of this motion, I have asked a number of family friends to write statements about me, their perception of me as a father, for the court. And my attorney has shared all those with me; reading them has been very uplifting.
I don't want a divorce but I definitely do not want the current arrangement where she gets all my income and I have to beg for time with the kids. So now I am taking official steps to rectify that problem, after my long efforts at good faith negotiation have failed. I am filing a motion with the court. Good for me!
As for my WAW - I have "gone dark" completely. She filed a protection order against me and I have not communicated with her directly, via any means, in 2 weeks. All communication goes through attorneys. You can imagine how much all this is costing us. It takes probably $300 in attorney fees for me to arrange a single visit with my kids. Insanity. Don't forget, this is HER money too. And she'll feel it worse than I. She doesn't have a job. But yet she is content to force me to communicate with her only through the $300/hour pipe. Can you say, avoidance?
Whatever. Next week we'll have hearings on the DV protection order and on the parenting plan. She won't be able to avoid that. She will read firsthand what our family friends say about me as a father. She will confront the judge who will read her petition for protection, and she will have to assert that I have been abusive for 22 years, in the face of all the support from family friends i have gotten.
It's really too bad we're here. But I'm going to continue to be a great dad, in fact I'm resolved to continue to find ways to be a better dad. And I will be a great husband, for someone in the future. Maybe her. Maybe not. Tick tick tick. Time is running out!
I've heard that many of the MLC/WAW spouses snap out of it after one or two court dates. I welcome this step. We'll see.
SPM -
What awesome news about your day w/ your kids. That is great! It is very refreshing to have them remember all the good times and help validate that you are not crazy.
I'm sorry about the court issues w/ the W. I'm facing a potential showdown myself where W and I are to undergo a "parenting evaluation" to decide the permanent custody situation for our D. This step will require us both to speak to a psychologist and I'll have to express my concerns about my W's depression, emotional stability, and drinking. I'm in the process of gathering that information now and I'm not really pleased about it, to be honest.
However, like you, I'm hoping processes like this will help to sober up my W to the realities of her claims and of life on the other side.
Let's hope your court proceedings go well for you and cause your W to have a welcome to reality moment of clarity. Some mild clarity from her would do a world of good right now.
Great work and hang in there.
RTL
SPM,
Sad story, I don't know what to say. I think you may need a new lawyer thought. There are a lot of bad ones out there.
God Bless, I hope things get better.
Tree
Thanks for your support Tree and RTL.
I spent the day Thursday at my attorney's office. It was weird, sort of like an out-of-body experience for me. I really never ever intended to be in this position - working through a divorce. I hate divorce. I resolved to never entertain the thought, no matter what. A weakness, I know, but that was my philosophy going into this marriage. Marriage is forever. better or worse, sickness and health, all that jazz.
Anyway so there I was, discussing all the ins and outs of filing a motion in a divorce proceeding. and yet it was almost like it was not me in there, sitting at that table, signing those papers.
But the reality is in black-and-white - my wife is trying to prevent me from having any custody of my children at all. This is the part that gives me the most anxiety. I accept that she is leaving me. I regret it, but I accept it. Now she is also trying to take the kids, and that I won't stand for. I will not accept it.
Her harsh position on this sort of makes sense, in the crazy world that is her mind, I guess. As time went on she did not honor our relationship - which of course is the foundation of any family. you know the old saw, The best thing for kids is a mother and father who love each other. And for me, love was a decision, not a feeling. For her, it was a feeling that did not flourish.
We had a child-centric marriage, to say the least. She doted on the kids, focused all her energy on them, so that at the end of the day, at the end of the week, at the end of anything, she didn't have any energy or passion or interest for me. I saved some for her, some of myself. But she never seemed to have any left for me.
So now, dissolving the marriage, she wants to retain the relationship she has with the kids, undisturbed. She doesn't want them living with me, 50/50, even though I was (honestly) the most involved father I know of. She doesn't want me having any say in their upbringing. She wants me to disappear, I guess.
This really feels wrong to me. Really wrong. a grave injusice. Everyone I talk to sees it this way. There is widespread disbelief among family friends that this is the stance she is taking. So based on all of that I have some hope that the judge will see it that way too. But it makes me anxious to be in this position - going in front of the judge in a few short days, to decide this issue - whether or not I will remain the father of my children. My biggest crime? - I was present during my wife's meltdown.
Look for a good father's rights organization; they should be able to give you more info on fighting this BS.
Ellie
great idea!
Before taking that step, I think I will wait and see the results of the initial hearing. Keep in mind all the restrictions of my time with my kids have been voluntary on my part (requested by my wife, eg "I need space"), or forced upon me by my wife (filing the petition). As yet we have not had a neutral third party weigh in here. The inmates are running the asylum, literally.
So I trust that the restrictions of my time with my kids will not stand. I need to be patient and follow the legal course. If I get impatient and break the protection order, it will be breaking the law, regardless of whether I was violent in the past or not. So I am not breaking that protection order. Period.
I am very hopeful that the judge will have one look at her petition and scoff it out of court. The judge may go so far as to censure her for limiting my time with my kids unfairly. We'll see.
In any case this first hearing is for temporary orders, which are not final. So I am nervous, but I know this is not my final chance. I am hoping it will go well. If it goes badly then I will take your advice and solicit help from a father's rights organization. That is a great idea!
Oh, I meant to say, about your comment, Tree.
I am anxious about the situation but actually I think my attorney is competent and thorough. She appears to be much more so than my wife's attorney, for example.
What my wife is asking for in her petition seems to be so far out of whack, it is hard to imagine it is realistic. This is why I think her attorney is a bozo. Also her actions (my wife's) indicate that the W and her attorney are not really connected on everything. Like filing the protection order and then immediately backing off.
Who knows, though? Maybe it is standard practice to request something really outrageous (like zero involvement by the other spouse) just to put the respondent on the defensive. Whatever. We'll see what happens in the hearing.
In any case after spending a great deal of time with my attorney over the past couple of days, I have found a new respect for her. I have also spoken to a couple of other attorneys for a second opinion, and for advice, and maybe to consider switching. But so far I am happy with the one I have.
Also I have been getting a great deal of support from family and friends, which I truly appreciate. I am trusting that the judge will see the MLC haze my wife is walking in.
SPM....I feel for you and will say a prayer tonight.
Thank you, thank you Tree.
I thought I posted this already but maybe I flubbed it.
When I offer my intentions at night, I always think of you. I think of you, and Minkerman, and RTL, and Bomb, and Treese, and all the other MLCers. I pray for the best for all of you, all of us.
Today I was out running some errands. The sun was shining and my spirits were good. I made a special effort to share a smile and sometimes a laugh with everyone I met. Not flirting, and not only women. Just smiling and being pleasant, and you know.... it made ME feel pretty good too.
Forgot to say that I went for a run today in the morning. I had gotten a new top, perfect for running in the chilly mornings. Someone saw me running and commented that I looked good.
Anyway it feels good to het the heart rate up, to sweat a little.
I'm being more consistent with that, these days.
Ha!
In Broken Tree's now-closed thread, Bomb said he read about MLC behavior in a book:
MLCers will typically make new friends that don't know you, the family, or the marital history. They feed their new "friends" their warped story of the marriage. Of course, the new friends will be sympathetic to the MLCers perspective since they really don't know any better.
The MLCer will be very protective of their new friends and will not want you or anyone else who might offer a different perspective to have contact with her friends. The last thing she wants is for her new friends to see that you're really a nice guy...not the monster she's been describing. It's just another dimension of the weirdness. Quite often, the new friends will be people you would never guess your spouse would associate with. And, quite often, they're people who are divorced, divorcing, single, or have troubled relationships.
EXACTLY. THIS DESCRIBES MY WIFE EXACTLY.
All of her friends now are actually from the "abused women's support group". And she has one new friend who is divorced.
Oh, gosh, it's almost comical.
The abused women's group gave her a checklist of things to look for to see if your husband is abusive. One is, "he denies it." Check. Another is "He asks for help from you in resolving the problem." Check. Another one I remember is, "he appears normal and cheerful to everyone else."
It's a complete farce!
It would be laughable if it weren't so damned sad and serious. This is not "I wrecked the car" or "I embarassed myself in front of the boss." This is "I wrecked my marriage and the lives of my 4 kids."
Sad.
How do these people keep up the farce for so long?
SPM,
First of all, good for you for getting out and exercising and smiling today. That is what we all need to do. Keep doing it.
I feel you pain w/ the L thing and the kids. My W didn't answer the phone when I called for D last night and she won't agree to 50/50 time split. I have the same issues that you do b/c I too will have to appear in front of some 3rd party and discuss why I'm worried about my W's ability to raise my D alone.
I have to bring up her drinking, her depression, her suicidal thoughts, her self-inflicted injuries, and her having an affair w/ a worker who is known to sleep w/ his students. I'd much rather not bring any of these issues up as well, but as far as my D is concerned, I have no choice.
You said, "How long can they keep up this farce?" I'm wondering the same thing as well. It is very difficult to sit back and watch someone you love and care dearly about stumble foolishly and painfully through their lives and not be able to help. All we can do is go to the 1/2 mark, extend our hands and hope one day they'll reach for our support. If we try and grab them, they'll recoil further.
Finally, your quote on the friends they surround themselves w/ is dead on w/ my W as well. Her OM is an adulterer who is in the process of divorce. Her friend in the office next door took off her ring and wants a divorce. Her best friend is sitting at home w/ her 2nd child waiting to get back to work so she can divorce her husband who cheated on her last year. Then there is her friend who is bi-sexual, just out of a relationship, and a bit confused about which side of the plate she'd like to swing from full-time.
To all of them, I'm evil. However, her best friend had been one who supported me and my efforts I was gaining through counselling especially since she saw zero effort from her husband. I think deep down, this one knows me and would like to see us work, but there is the public facade she has to put on for my W.
I don't know if or when our Ws will ever come out of their fogs. I keep hoping that the situations of her influences will turn for the better so my W will be w/out the negative backers for her twisted plan of escape.
I don't know, but I do know I have time as my ally to get myself better and to give her a chance to notice. I hate the legal thing too, but we weren't given much of a choice, were we?
I'm very proud of you b/c I know you are in a lot of pain. Keep going forward for you. You'll do it and you'll be fine. Your kids will be with you again. They will. Trust that the nice guys doesn't always finish last. The hero in the movies always wears the white hat and the black hatted villian always finds his just demise.
RTL
[quote=
The abused women's group gave her a checklist of things to look for to see if your husband is abusive. One is, "he denies it." Check. Another is "He asks for help from you in resolving the problem." Check. Another one I remember is, "he appears normal and cheerful to everyone else."
[/quote]
Sir:
Sorry but I did laugh at this because of the way you said, CHECK!! It really isn't funny but what are they thinking...Really...if it was true wouldn't your kids be afraid to be with you instead of reminissing about old times....I don't get how she is making up such things...I'm really sorry
You did make me laugh though, and I don't laugh much anymore...
Treese
hee hee!
Treese, it's just so ridiculous, because, if I were "guilty" of abuse or "innocent" of abuse, I would provide
the same answers. I would deny it. I would ask for her help in resolving it. Everyone else would think I am charming. So it's really dumb to use those questions as a litmus test, but for those in the lobotomy/abused spouse support group, I guess logic doesn't really interfere with their thinking.
Anyway I am glad you had a laugh. I'll bet you have a really nice laugh.
RTL, you wrote:
I feel you pain w/ the L thing and the kids. My W didn't answer the phone when I called for D last night and she won't agree to 50/50 time split. I have the same issues that you do b/c I too will have to appear in front of some 3rd party and discuss why I'm worried about my W's ability to raise my D alone.
'Scuse me for saying so, but you appear to have it backwards, no? If you are the father, why do you have to justify
to anyone as to why you should get time with your child?
Your "case", as it were, seems to be basically a negative campaign. In other words the stuff you talk about seems to be reasons why
NOT to give custody to your wifey. I have a different perspective. I am looking for evidence that says you were an involved father (I hate that phrase!), you have a loving relationship with your daughter, that your daughter beenfits from the relationship with you. I think these are presumptions of family law courts these days in most states, but it wouldn't hurt to bolster your case by re-inforcing it.
You might also start planning what it looks like to be a single dad. What are your work hours? Where's the daycare? Who is your support network? What's your budget? And so on. The more prepared you are, the better chance you stand to get good consideration when it comes to custody. Demonstrate that you are preparing to be a good parent, and the court will take you seriously.
If you actually want to take custody
away from your wife, in other words, you get primary custody and she gets less than 50% in time and decision making, then that is when I would go to the cutting, drinking, etc. But that is up to you. Also I am no lawyer. There are probably others who have better advice on this particular issue.
ps: I'm listening to John Mayer's song "She's gone."
The story of my life these days.
I went for another run today, too. I run about 40 minutes, with a couple stops along the way to do some decline pushups. By the end of the 40 minutes I am in a full sweat. Feels good. I read that vigorous exercise like that hops up the natural endorphins, which is a good natural way to boost a person's mood. I'm all over that.
But I went off the path getting out of the way of a family, and when I wasn't watching, I sprained my ankle, ouch, it looks like a softball.
No running tomorrow I guess.
Today I also tuned up my mountain bike - it is ready to roll for the spring. I am pretty psyched to do some riding, but now with my ankle, I will have to take it easy for a week or so I guess.
My mood has been pretty good lately, but not because I am deceiving myself as to the seriousness of the situation. Actually it is the opposite. I believe the situation is serious, and I believe my wife's assertions are not credible, and I think that will be plain to the court. The more I think about it the more convinced of this I am. And then, I think - well, what if the court is not convinced? But of course I have no control over the court's decision. I can only state my case, keep my dignity, follow the golden rule (I'm not getting nasty), and hope for the best.
Do my best and hope for the best. I feel like I know that "play". I've run that play many times lately.
Peace, all!
By the way - if you read what I have written lately, it is mostly about the business of divorce. Filing motions and protection orders and so on.
I have to say, I am still DBing. In a different way, of course. I still believe most people give up on marriages too soon. My wife has gone off them deep end, but even now she still is not experiencing the true consequences of what she has decided. She hasn't had to move out of the house. She hasn't had to confront the sharing of custody of her beloved children. She hasn't had her budget restricted. All this will come to pass. Soon. The way I get there is by following the divorce proceedings.
Will it be enough to shake her loose? Not sure. But we shall see. For now I am remaining patient, while at the same time protecting myself and planning for a future with or without her. I am not taking what she does personally.
Sir,
You sound like you are in a good place.
Hey Snodderly! That was yout 10000th post!
yeehaw!
Thanks! You have some great insight on this forum. We appreciate all you do. If I were with you, I would buy you a beer and pat you on the back. . .
Sir,
I'll get that beer on St. Paddy's day and will thoroughly enjoy it.
Enjoy your day and start making some plans for spring. It's right around the corner!
I'll get that beer on St. Paddy's day
Green beer?
Green beer? Ewww, no!
Good beer is much more Irish than Green beer!
SPM -
Bummer about your ankle. You were just beginning to hum again. I hope it heals fast.
As for your take on my sitch, yes, I may have to pull out the dirty laundry if W is looking for sole custody and supervised visits. That is what I'm hoping to avoid. My L will instruct me on what to do, but I am working on compiling the evidence, just in case I have to use it.
I also really like your take on how you are DBing right now, because I'm one who is very down today and having those thoughts of throwing in the towel. You are right b/c your W hasn't had the full effects of the divorce hit her yet. Neither has mine.
They have both been in control of our children from the start and have been the ones to dictate our time with our kids. Money won't be much of an issue for my W as she makes more than I do, but the stresses of having to do things alone will make it difficult. She had her parents in town for 10 days and now her sister is in for the weekend. Her neice will come in about 2 weeks for her spring break.
However, what I've noticed is when she's completely alone, she is very friendly with me and even more so if I have D at my house. I'm anxious to see how she reacts to being on her own full-time. I'm not sure she'll like it too much. Once her support system leaves, she'll have to fully face her decision.
I too am continuing to hold out hope but also working to prepare for my life w/ or w/out my W. I'll always have a connection w/ her b/c of our D, but I'm preparing for this possibility to mean we're in separate houses for the rest of our days.
Great perspective on things.
RTL
Thanks RTL.
It doesn't make it stink any less, but sometimes it just feels better to know that other people are going through what you are going through. So thanks.
My ankle felt pretty ok this morning. It looks ugly, purple, but it works ok. I actually considered going for another run this morning, but then I guess my "old guy" conscience said, "what, are you nuts?" and so I didn't. But I could've. Maybe tomorrow. It looks worse than it is. Weird, my knee on the opposite side hurts more than my ankle, and I don't remember injuring the knee.
Whatever, I won't let it slow me down. Maybe I'll ride the bike tomorrow.
I see my wife twice a week during kid exchange, but because of the protection order, I am not permitted to communicate with her at all. I may not speak to her during the exchange, and I am not even permitted to get out of the car, according to the arrangement we have. (If this sounds like pretty heavy protection, I agree. If you are concluding that I am a dangerous guy and I need to be restrained, that's not right. She doesn't agree though. wacky.) I am also proscribed from calling her or emailing her about any other business. I cannot even send her a text to ask her to have the kids swimsuits packed, so we can go to the pool. It's the stupidest thing I ever heard of.
Anyway I don't talk with her during the exchange, and I also do not look her in the eye. I avoid her glance. I look at my kids, kiss/hug for them. Then I drive away. but I stole a glance today. She looks terrible.
I don't know how else to put it.
She looks as if she has aged 10 years.
I don't believe I am imagining this.
Maybe I am. Don't think so.
I gotta believe your W is also feeling the pressure. I don't "feel good" about this - seeing my wife this way. I don't feel vindicated. Ok, maybe a little, but it's a hollow feeling. It doesn't make it any better. I am only hoping that eventually the pressure she is putting on herself will get to her.
I have spoken to a bunch of experts in the field. One is a former head of psychiatry at the largest hospital in my (major) metro area. A Heavy Hitter, you would say. Anyway, he and all the other experts all say the same thing - they don't "snap out of it" unless and until they hit rock bottom. Until they hit bottom they will not change. What is the bottom?
It is certainly not, in my wife's case, continuing to live in the big house, continuing to plan her days of leisure, volunteering, massages, etc. Continuing to dictate the terms under which the children and I live. All that will change. I don't want her to suffer but ... yes, reality. Reality wouldn't be so bad.
Meant to update on yesterday. I got to spend half the day with my kids. Picked 'em up at 10am, dropped em off at 530pm. Not enough time to go skiing, but we had a nice day anyway.
I made lunch for em, which is nice. We made collages. We played "snail" which is a hopscotch kind of thing that everybody can play. I wanted to play a little more with the boys, toss the football or frisbee, but you know, with four kids it is hard to find one thing that keeps everyone entertained. The girls didn't want to throw the football. Snail was fun - the littlest one, won the game. She was pleased.
We drew with chalk on the driveway. We made cupcakes. We did more collages. We had fun.
For a long while the girls played "spa" with me as the customer. They were massaging me, giving me haircuts and facials, I asked for a hair color, too. It was all pretend. They gave me foot massages and served me imaginary tea and pizza. They rubbed lotion into my face and arms. I loved every minute of it! They were cracking up, having a good time.
It wasn't all fun and games. Briefly, we talked about honesty. One of my sons commented that he knew how to "scam ebay". I told him that it is easy to figure out scams. Scams are everywhere. We talked about shoplifting and cheating. It's pretty easy to "get away with" stuff. But what we need to do is act honestly, even when no one is watching. Not too heavy, I think. Just a teaching moment.
Also with the same son I had to tell him to wash better. He stinks of BO! I told him politely, gently, and discretely of course. Apparently he is out of deodorant. Ah, fatherhood!
Smooches and hugs at the end of the visit. Leaving them is always hard for me. I cannot even call them in between our visits. These days, I always give them each a letter when we part. I am allowed to do that I guess. I hope. I just say that I love them and enjoy being with them and miss our time together.
Today I got a letter from our former Pastor, the guy who married us. It was a letter on my behalf - stating that he saw a normal relationship between me and the kids, me and the wife. I asked him to write a letter to the court, since I am now in a custody battle and W is alleging 22 years of abuse.
I can only shake my head. How did I get here? I am thankful he wrote it, of course.
This morning I went for a little bike ride - the sprained ankle worked fine. Got a good sweat going. That's good for me. My bike has been rehabbed and tuned up for Spring. It's working great. Everything is perfectly adjusted. I splurged on some new tires last night - the existing ones are getting worn and now lack traction. The bike will be like new when I get those tires on it. I'm psyched to ride some off-road stuff.
Riding inspires me. It's a real pleasure, a passion of mine. So I feel great about spending money getting my bike just the way I want it. It's my one vice! My one serious indulgence.
---
I was recounting to a buddy a story I saw in the news about an apparently successful young doctor who led a double life - he was a bike enthusiast, and was in the habit of stealing high-end bicycles. Bikes worth $5000 or more. (yes, bikes can cost that much). Anyway as I was recounting it, I remembered that OM used to do the same thing. It just came back to me. (OM was my "friend".) I remember him going to bike shops and asking to take a bike for a "test ride" and then never returning with the bike. He thought it was the greatest scam. What a shyster.
I remembered this well AFTER I talked to my son about Honesty.
OM never developed the honesty habit. When we were in college, he used to go to the grocery store and stuff his clothes full of steaks, and then buy a pack of gum. He'd walk out with 100's of $ worth of meat in his clothing. All of us in college were poor, but he was the only one who behaved that way, as far as I knew.
Even in the summer of 2006, when he was 42 years old!, I remember him still acting this way, like a kid with bad morals. He'd run a scam if he thought he could get away with it. His bike broke, and he filed a false claim to get it fixed for free. This is a man who lived in a $600k house at the time. Why would he cheat like this? He didn't need the money. By any measure he was rich, very well off financially. Why would he cheat to get his bicycle fixed? Because he is a dishonest person to the core. Period.
His father left his mother when he was 2, and he never had a man in his life to act as a model - never had someone to look up to and aspire to emulate.
Neither did my wife (her father also left her mother, and then refused to pay child support). Coincidence that W and OM decided they were "soulmates"?
I've written too much!
SPM -
You are such a good man. To be quite frank, your W does not deserve you. She may hit rock bottom some day and regret what she had with you or she may continue to blame all her life problems on you. That is not your concern. You dont want her to come back when she finds herself in a corner.
Your situation sucks, but I know it will get much better for you. I wish you the best in getting a fair deal in your D. You sound like a great father to me. Honesty is the way to go in life so as to maintain dignity for ones self.
BTW... Here is an update on the bike stealing doctor:
Doctor accused of stealing pricey bikes found dead
There is a couple I look at with admiration. The husband is a recovering alcoholic, and the wife has stood by him even during his bad phase. This guy had a bad childhood, his father used to beat him regularly, and that is no excuse but it is an explanation of sorts. he's a good guy, but got a raw deal, and then fell victim to the sauce. Anyway she is standing by him. It is nice to see. Did she deserve his behavior? No. But she's married, and is fulfilling her commitment. I love seeing that. How many other marriages are like this? Countless! It's just that we don't hear about them!
I meant to give you all an update. A friend of W and me, a college buddy, was in town recently. He was close with me but also very friendly with W in the college years. A good guy, eccentric, funny, smart. Anyway it has been 4 years since I saw him. He was in contact with W and actually stayed at my house while he was in town. I called his phone and he answered while walking through my house. (It's this kind of thing that makes me crazy).
Later he came out to lunch with me. We spent the afternoon just hanging out. He was shocked to hear what W had done, and with whom. Of course this buddy of ours knew the OM, too, we all were in college together. He said something I found very supportive - he told me, "I never liked him."
I was incredulous. What?!!? He explained, it wasn't that he disliked him, it was that he never really felt close to him. There was always something about him. He wasn't very trustworthy. It's the same way I felt about OM. It's the feeling I got when I heard he was stealing bicycles. The distaste for that kind of behavior. The slightly horrified feeling at his various escapades, like bringing drugs with him on an overseas flight for a family vacation, with 2 kids in tow. I heard a similar sentiment from several people when they heard the news. They never liked him. Why did we even hang out with him?, some asked me...
Anyway this friend of mine also expressed almost disbelief that W had done what she had done. First, gone to OM. Then, tried to take my kids from me. He told me the truth will all come out, someday. He hugged me.
It's funny because NOT ONE PERSON ever said the same thing about my wife. No one has said - you know, I never trusted her. Or you know, there was always something about her that made me not quite comfortable. Or, I never really liked her.
Everyone really liked her. She was a good person. She was honorable and beautiful and generous and forgiving and caring and conscientious and loving and strong. No one saw this coming, on her side. Everyone is dumbfounded.
Sir:
You have been most impressive throughout your sitch. You deserve alot of respect for the way you are handling things. I wish you well on your journey!
Isn't it funny how others have percieved things from the outside looking in....just goes to show that things aren't always as they seem.
I hope one day your W wakes up and smells the coffee....she is making a huge mistake in my opinion.
Be the best you can be for yourself and your kids!
BA
OH Sir;
We have more in common than you think...
The OW my H is with is a "friend" from the past....he started with emailing, blah, blah, blah.
When I talked to my H's best friend, he is also a good friend of mine,,,he too said, "I never liked her, she's always been sleezy", and his wife said the same thing...The OW made her way around our friends, yep, sleeping with them...she finally married, has 2 kids, and now is divorced, and sleeping with my H..a great girl she is....and yep, my H was funny, and everyone loved him..now they think he has screwed up.he even told them he wasn't looking for a fan club...he doesn't know all his close friends call me to see how I am...our friends are "our friends" that's what makes this difficult...H is out of his mind right now...and OW is poison.with big boobs..he'll find that out..I guess my H was the last of his friends she could sleep with...yuk...makes me sick to my stomach...some day...it will all make sense..
Treese
Treese, it's eerie! The similarities. . .
I spoke with a friend of W's today, asking her advice about some stuff in the future.
I sort of lovehate these conversations. The people I talk to are all supportive and offering sound advice. I agree with it all. But of course it presumes there is some rationality in the whole situation. "What you guys need to do is come to some agreement about where you will live, how much you will see the kids, and so on." I couldn't agree more, of course. But when there is no communication (protection order), there will be no agreeing. When one of us wants the other to have zero time with the kids, that is hard for me to agree with. So I feel "Validated" if that is the right word, when I speak to these people, but also frustrated that what seems to make sense to me, and to other people I talk to, is so out of reach.
Sir,
While the feedback we get can be good, it's hard to put into action for various reasons. In your case an order of protection in other cases it's spew and still others that there is no reasonable response.
I've found that if I can't move forward, it's break time and I go wandering off in a completely different direction. I'll come back to it and my frustration level is usually better.
HUGS
Sir,
I checked out your present stitch and I want to say first I'm sorry that your here but this is a good place to find.
Secondly this will be rough and will get rough, just please don't let your wonderful attitude change.
Your a damn good father and a good person.
Don't give up Bro!!
Ill say a prayer for you.
Grace, your advice sounds simple and wise. Break time! a new direction. An oblique approach is called for!
Gman, thanks for the props! I'm pulling for you!
Today I had sort of a low day. It was sunny, but I did not exercise. Missed opportunity.
Last night I met a very attractive young mother. She was a knockout, and very personable. But married! But she has a friend, she says....
Tomorrow I see my kiddos. It is the day before my youngest daughter's birthday. I got her a cool fairy outfit - wings and a gauzy ballet skirt and a leotard and a crown. She'll love it! I have a couple hours with them, so I hope to go out for ice cream and presents. I'm not asking to "participate with W" on any bday stuff from now on. (It's sort of silly with me being retrained by a protection order.) The most recent bday was my son's - Dec 10th. He wanted us all to be together and so I honored his request. I sat at a table with my cheatin' wife. I knew she feels guilty about splitting the family, so I tried to assuage that. At that time I had more hope. It was only 2 weeks since the filing. But no more. I'm done with that approach.
My bday is coming up, too. I wonder what is in store for me? I have no expectations, or even hopes re: W's recognition of the day. I wonder if she will be gracious enough to remind my kids of the day? Either way I will not take it personally. W's brother's bday is coming up. I am thinking of surprising him with something good.
At the same time I am working on divorce filings. Lots of paperwork filing motions for temporary custody orders and financial orders. This is the rotten business of divorce. It always brings me down a bit to go through the wreckage of our life together like this. But I am looking forward to having a house again - a warm place to call my own, to make my own, to welcome my kids into. Heh, and a master bedroom to bring hotties to. . . ok, with that last part maybe I am getting a little ahead of myself.
hee hee!
I hope you all are well.
Grace, you wrote:
I realize it may not be about the sex. I just find it funny (in a dark and twisted kind of way) b/c I was the one who always wanted sex, not him. Could be he needs to feel needed and appreciated in a way he didn't get here. He isn't a talker so he leaves you guessing (always has) as to what he needs or would like.
Oh, the Irony! Same thing with me. I wanted and enjoyed sex, she never initiated, and often declined. She always enjoyed it when we made love. We talked about it. I never understood why she didn't want to do it, more often.
I am no expert on the topic. There is a forum here for the sex-starved marriage, maybe there is good insight there. But, ... I've done some reading. The way I understand it now, the difference in desire can lead to or catalyze feelings of inadequacy. Which can lead to distance. Which opens the door to an affair.
In my wife's situation, I don't think the sex was fulfilling at all. In the early days, after I found out about it, she was forthcoming, she used to discuss it with me. This was before she developed her suspicion of me, and I felt she was being honest in those days. I was concerned about the risk of pregnancy. She told me "he never came." What?!? What kind of affair is that? She explained further that he couldn't keep it up. He didn't have staying power. How ugly a thought that was in my head. I kept thinking - why the hell would you want sex with a someone like that? (I never had such problems)
So it seemed to me it was not about the sex, for my alien. It was about the rebellion, the secrecy, the flouting of rules, the breaking of taboos.
For me, sex was never like that. Good sex was just good sex, pure and natural, an expression of love and intimacy between two adults. How silly of me!
SPM,
I'm caught up w/ you and glad to know you have the kids at least a couple of set times a week. It is very obvious you are a wonderful, loving and caring father. Nice job on getting the "serious" morals talk in. My D and I had one of those when seh winged a little toy at me in the tub and hit me in the eye leaving a nice little bruise. You are always going to be a wonderful influence on your children as they grow to adults and well beyond.
I'm also glad to hear that ou were on the bike and the ankle is getting better. I stepped off a stair the wrong way when I was at Arlington Cemetary w/ the students in late January and my ankle was sore and purple for a good week. I hate getting old.
I also agree that the stress of the decision is taking a toll on both our W's. My W has been chronically sick throughout our relationship and marriage and I've stayed faithful and was always her support. I'm wondering how much OM will have to give to her when she's not as energetic or available as he'll want. She will continue to break down physically and I know OM is a man of little character, so I'm curious to see how long he's willing to wait or what he's willing to accept and swallow. My W will have more downs than ups by a long shot as that is her MO. Time will tell.
I too have heard that my W won't look to address ANYTHING until she hits rock bottom. I'm not sure what or when that will occur for my W, but I do know she's not liking her sitch now. She is very, very concerned about doing the parenting evaluation b/c she knows how it will end up -- we'll get 50/50 custody of D and she'll be forced to cooperate and compromise w/ me. She may also be wary of her medical history needing to be examined in this process as well, including her therapy notes. She'll lose her control and edge and it won't be too pretty for her.
Your W will be in the same boat as well very, very soon.
I'm glad you are noticing and being noticed by others as well. It is nice to know that your life isn't over and you are still attractive to the opposite sex. You'll know when and if it is right to start something new. You will make the best decision for you and your children.
You have shown to be a man of great character, so I have no doubts in where you'll end up in all this. I'm kind of looking at things in the same way -- not too much hope and wondering if I will ever be able to get past the saddness of it all as it is just such an unnecessary shame to have to endure this at all.
RTL
I am sad everyone is here. My story is also like everyone else here. D stinks! H walked out 5 months ago. He was my 1st and only boyfriend. Been together 31 years and married 25. 2S 19&15. He has nothing to do with them. He walked out and has never looked back. MLC. Hate this!
Wow!
2ndnoah, that is tough. I feel for you and your boys. Hold on to yourself!
RTL, thanks for the encouraging words. You and me, and the rest of the gang here, we're gonna make it allright. maybe not the way I had it planned, but that's ok. I'll make it anyway. And I'll go out a-smiling.
Tonight I see the kiddos. I'm jazzed!
SPM,
I agree we will all pull through. Our plans may be altered, but we'll become better, stronger, healthier people, husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, and friends as a result.
It is sad to see us here, but we are here for a reason. We are here to grow, change, and learn something. I think one thing I'm supposed to learn is to completely let things go that I can't control. That has always been difficult for me, but I can see it and I'm getting better all the time (pulled a quote from Modern English's "I'll Melt w/ You" there).
Why we're here doesn't make any sense right now and we may never fully see it, but we're here and we have to make the most of every opportunity, unfortunately this also means opportunities like the ones were in now.
Like you, I'm beginning to wonder how, when or if we can ever come back from this. Right now, w/ my W being so mean, cruel and distant, I just don't see it. However, time can do wonders to and for people if we let it, so who really knows in the end.
I'm very stoked for you to be able to be w/ your kids again today. HAVE A BLAST! I don't have to tell you to do so, b/c you always do.
RTL
YES! RTL, good to hear from you.
About the anger and meanness you feel from your wife - I understand that is par for the MLC course. I feel the same way -my wifey has gone nuclear and it seems so unnecessary. So I am trying to not take it personally.
I had fun with the kids. Since it is her bday, my daughter picked the restaurant - Ruby's. A burgers and fries joint. We opened presents, we laughed, we giggled. I'm just happy to be with them.
My boys asked me why we haven't gone skiing, why I don't call. I didn't know what to say. I told them their mom asked me not to call them or email. I told them we'd go skiing again soon.
Yesterday I spent a long time responding in writing to a declaration my wife made in the divorce proceedings. She is asking for full custody and for lots more money than I even make. She is living in a dreamland. She is getting some really bad advice, too. Anyway, doing divorce work is always a way to brighten my day. . .
not!
Speaking of dreamland...
I am thinking forward a couple weeks. Right now I am restrained from speaking to my wife, and my kids.
I expect this restraint to be lifted at the hearing. After that, I suppose W and I will have mroe contact - in email, on the phone and so on.
I am trying to think how to play it. I'd like to just treat the whole thing lightly and with humor. I am dreaming of a time when I can crack a joke about it, and break the tension for her. If I had a million dollars I would buy her a castle and a tank and tell her she could feel safe inside those things. I'm looking for some way to communicate that, now that the restraint is done and rejected, I am not ticked, I am not unbelievably hurt. I'm just standing, solid, I'm still here.
It's dreamland, because, who knows? maybe the restraint order will be permanent. Maybe she will never talk to me again and every time we communicate it will be through attorneys. Those things might happen, too. But I can dream, can't I?
If she sees that I will stand and be the rock through this domestic violence thing, maybe she will consider than I could stand and be the rock through the rest of our storms, too.
Sir,
I'm so glad you got to see the kids and have a good time.
How did your boys respond to you telling them about their mom's request that you not call or e-mail? My H actualluy had to nuts to ask how often I wanted him to vist the kids. Idiot. I told him as often as he wants, he just can't spend the night here (he's moving about 60 miles away into a more metropolitan area). We'll see how often that is
Hmmm, I like the nuclear analogy. I wonder if I can get a radiation suit to wear around H?
My boys always get quiet when I tell them about the steps things their mom takes. Like, the separation. The divorce. They invite me into the house and I cannot accept. Now, the zero communication. None of these were my idea. The so called "Experts" say that W and I should present a united front to the kids. Well, bullspit! I'm not lying to my kids. I'm not saying "WE decided to divorce" to my kids. WE did no such thing. SHE decided. I'm not saying "WE decided it would be good for me to never see you again."
My kids hate all these limitations, is my impression. It confuses them. I cannot see them, I cannot email, I cannot come in the house. They don't know why mom is so bent on ejecting dad from her life. They don't know why she would ask me not to talk to THEM. They want to ask but don't want to know is my feeling, you know?
ps: Grace - have I told you? Your husband is a dope.
If I tie a rope around him, can I sell him as a dope on a rope?
I know what you mean about the "We" thing. When we talk to D's we're going to present it as 1) a marital separation 2) b/c of unhappiness and frustration. This is actually true for both of us as I'm unhappy and frustrated he's leaving. When it comes to D time, that's a different story. I won't blame him, but I'm not going to resuce him either. At that point we'll see what we see. He said the other night he wanted to tell the kids we're going to "try" a spearation. Try? More like try until he starts the rest of it. I'll keep my mouth shut for now. Our D's (like all the other kids) are not stupid. How long does he think it will take thme to figure out he's the one not coming to see them b/c of his "new" life? Umm, the'll know before we're done talking.
Of course you kids don't want to ask. They don't want to know that Mom is nuts and keeping their Dad from them for her own selfish reasons. The thing is though, she will pay such a heavy price for this.
I definitely do not want to poison the relationship between my kids and my wife. They love her (rightfully so) and that's a precious, beautiful thing.
In 10 years who knows where we will be, but she will always be their mom. God willing we will be experiencing less drama. I don't think she is evil, and don't want them to think that either. They need her as a mom for a long time yet. So it is a delicate balance for me - to tell the truth without throwing her under the bus.
Grace;
Ooooo.....I am living that now...my H told D15 that "we" were going to "try" living on "our" own for a while, but whatever happens is for the best....remember what D said, "maybe better for you". I'm sorry but my children are not stupid...my D21 is already all over it....D15 told a counselor here at school that she couldn't imagine her dad with anyone else, YUK, she said...well what is going to happen when she finds out her dad had someone all along..that he committed adultery...my kids go to Catholic schools and I have raised them that way...one of the commandments, "thou shall not commit adultry". let him explain it...I WILL NOT LIE FOR HIM... I already told him he needed to tell the kids the truth about the stupid Ipod....
My H is living his new life and loving every minute of it...of course D15 already has her opinion about him being happy without us....she says it will come back to bite him in the butt...yep, these are ma girls.....
Treese
Hey Sir,
I haven't stopped by in awhile, but I wanted to say good on you for fighting for your kids. Phooey on your W for resorting to such a nasty tactic.
When is your hearing?
Nut
Treese, good, I'm glad your girls are angry with their father. They ought to be. Good for them. He's betrayed them, too. They have every right. Good!
Nut! Thanks for the note. My hearing is in about a week. I'm a little nervous but in a good way. Like anxiety before the big game.
I wonder if I will be able to get my suit from the house?! Prolly not. I'll have to wear the jacket and tie I have, then.
(I still do not have all my clothing. Not even half of it. It's so funny I have a closet full of clothes that I haven't worn in 6 months. You go through life thinking "I need this stuff" but when push comes to shove, you don't really. I will say that I spent a bunch of money though, on new clothes, since I've been out of the house. It saves me from going there, and also it picks me up.
Today, I'm gonna write some really nice letters to my kids, to give to them the next time I see 'em. (I cannot send them email or write letters, at least til the hearing)
Sir;
I will be rooting for you during your hearing..I hope all goes well...
As far as clothing...my H TOOK clothes he hasn't worn in years..that's what leads me to believe he is not coming back...go ahead and buy yourself a new suit...let your W see how good you are looking....doesn't hurt...
My d21 comes home on Monday...my son slipped and told my H and he really didn't even say anything...just unhuh...what?? Probably because he is ashamed to see her and afraid of what she might say to him...
and sir, I wrote my kids a letter while I was on my retreat to be opened when I'm gone...It's all about love and fighting for what you believe in.. I was sobbing writing it but what a gift to find when I am gone...to know I will always be there in their hearts where ever they may be. I love my kids and I know they love me..my D15 says I'm great and she has never really told me how much she appreciates me but wanted me to know how much she loves me...they take after me.
Anyway, I'm with you Sir....
Treese
Today, I'm gonna write some really nice letters to my kids, to give to them the next time I see 'em. (I cannot send them email or write letters, at least til the hearing)
I will never get this. One good thing that will hopefully come out of the hearing is your ability to contact them.
HUGS
to all:
this does suck bad. i am in same sitch as many here. all loss. sirprize- you gotta take a stand on that slander issue- good luck with it.
keep your heads up and stop thinking about what she's losing and just think kids and you. spend your money on camping equipment and setout to the woods with your kids and have fun roughing it, fishing, cooking outdoors just being with them. thats what i plan on doing simply thinking of making ever single meeting w/my kids a memory period. that is something nobody can take from your kids and they will love that more than material stuff. good luck, bitty
SPM,
My friend it sounds like you are doing pretty well. It has to be incredibly painful to have your kids ask you why and I can completely agree w/ your situation when you say
it is a delicate balance for me - to tell the truth without throwing her under the bus
I have this coming up for me as well, unfortunately. However, I am discussing filing a temporary order for custody so my W will be forced to share time w/ me. She has seen D 20 of the 25 days since the filing. Hardly equal time in any book.
When I was at daycare paying the weekly tuition, my D asked me "can you pick me up today, daddy?" It is obvious she wants to see me as well.
What day is your hearing? I work in a Catholic High School, so it won't hurt to add you to our list of special intentions when we pray before each class next week.
Talk to you later.
RTL
HEY - How's the ankle? I almost forgot to ask. Still big, ugly and sore as all get up?
The ankle is ugly, but the purple is fading. Today is a riding day.
My hearing is March 6th! Tell ya what, pray for my kids, wouldja? And please do pray for wisdom for the judge.
Prior to the hearing there is a whole bunch of legal paperwork back and forth. She files a motion, I file a motion, I file a response to her motion, she files a response to my motion. And then the responses to the responses. Oh gosh, who invents this stuff?
So anyway I got her response to my response. She is much much nicer in this one. I wouldn't say she is Miss Congeniality, I mean, it is still a filing in a divorce case. But she actually put some positive things in there. Like, I've always been a hard worker. She said she admired that. Like, I've always played with the kids, and they love it. This is in direct contrast to what she wrote in the original DVPO. Weird.
She is still sticking to the "Dino should not get residential time with his kids." but she is backing off the "he is dangerous" tack. She's much more defensive in this one, less accusatory.
Oh gosh, who invents this stuff?
The peolpe who get paid for handling it.
but she is backing off the "he is dangerous" tack.
Wow, this is good news. I hope it stay this way. I will definately pray for both your kids and you.
Hang in there.
HUGS
Thanks Grace.
I'm not sure why she'd be backing off her pit-bull mode. Couple guesses:
- Her attorney advised her that the rest of her filings sounded like a nagging shrew, especially with the DVPO, and she wouldn't seem a sympathetic figure.
- She is starting to think about the practical consequences. Her monthly proposal for support differs from mine by about $6000.
I'm not feeling really charitable at the moment.
Last night I dreamt of a lover. A future lover. It wasn't her. It wasn't anyone I recognized. Just someone I was in love with. And she was in love with me. How's that for a novel idea?
This evening's thought bouquet:
Wife wanted out of the marriage. I didn't like the idea. I resisted. Wife pushed harder. Wife filed divorce. I started accepting it. Which means - financial separation. Equitable custody. Now we're selling the house, she's broke, I'm broke, we're spending all our money on attorneys, she has no idea where she'll live, and the kids are worried about where they'll live. Wife is now very stressed, not happy about the whole "gotta sell the house and move" thing. She's also not so happy about the "sharing income" thing. See, I should have listened to her all along!
SPM,
My brother, you will be in my prayers. In fact, I've written you down on my calendar for the 6th and I'm taking a note to school to put you in my special intentions when we pray before each class. You will be in my thoughts and prayers this week.
Glad the ankle is better and you'll be able to get out and ride again shortly.
I'm also pleased w/ your mental mindset. You are doing all you can and your W is feeilng the heat. She doesn't have to like it b/c this is her baby. Maybe we'll both have to remarry, maybe not. The bottom line is we'll both be healthy in our next relationships, regardless of if they are w/ our Ws or w/ someone new.
Things happen for a reason and we all need to just ride things out to see what those reasons may be.
Take care, my good friend. I'm hoping to hear more from you soon.
RTL
RTL, I'm thinking of you, too.
Today was a good day. Saw my kiddos. Laughed and played. We played duck-duck-goose. Now, my kids are not all really young, and duck-duck-goose is sort of a game for tots. And there's only 5 of us, so it's not really enough people. But it was silly and we played it silly. They wer making up other bird names, and then it went from birds to vegetables and any old object. Duck-eagle-owl-field mouse-moose-chicken-goose!
My D6 is the one who feels the most... uh... i guess repressed anger? toward me. I mean, I think she is grumpy that me and her mom split apart. And I don't blame her one bit. (I'm grumpy about it too) I have a lot of empathy for D6. She hesitates to kiss me, and she pushes me away. But during duck-duck-goose, she only picked me to chase her. Like 5 times in a row. It was a joy.
We also played yahtzee, and played some other games.
I am really really looking forward to getting my own place, someplace where she'll feel comfortable. I'm looking forward to a regular life with my kids again.
Went for a bike ride this morning, yahoo! That was fun. Good to get the old heart pumping.
I am spending my time during the day preparing for my hearing on the petition for Domestic Violence protection order. What fun!
I had a conversation with my individual therapist the other night - I was describing the various ups and downs on the rollercoaster that is my life. In particular, W's filing of the petition for DVPO. She said,
it sounds like your wife is experiencing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I was talking to another psychologist yesterday about my situation - she is just a friend. And she made the same remark. I had not introduced the idea of PTSD.
None of our family friends can understand why my wife has done the things she has done, none can understand why she continues to do the things she has done (like file the petition for DVPO). Most people don't believe me when I tell them. They ask for copies of the court documents because they don't believe she has actually filed a petition for DVPO.
Does this stuff feel like regular old mid-life crisis to you guys?
- She has alleged in court documents that I have cut her off financially, left her penniless. The truth is that I changed the direct deposit on my paycheck - it no longer goes to an account that she controls. It goes to an account I control and I pay the bills from there. I have given her cash and I have signed receipts showing that. This is so easy to refute it is surreal that she says it.
- she has alleged in court docs that I repeatedly grabbed her and controlled her in the house. This just isn't true.
- she has alleged in court docs that after changing my direct deposit I "fell behind on the bills". First, Ok, which is it? Have I refused to pay any bills? or did I fall behind? Secondly - I did not fall behind on the bills. Most of our bills were weeks and months overdue by the time I took charge financially. MOST. This is easily verifiable. I don't know why she would assert it in a court document. How can she miss this?
- she has said I pounded on things and screamed during specific conversations, when in fact that did not happen. She made these remarks only hours after the conversation, so I remembered it very clearly. During the conversation in question, we spoke calmly, though it was a tense topic (her affair). Yet she reported to other people that I was irate, out of control. When I raised this discrepancy with her in therapy, she wrote it off as simple exaggeration. "Pounding on the car" is not a simple exaggeration of "not pounding on the car."
- she reported to her father than I filed for divorce, when it is easy to see on the court documents that she is the petitioner. This is just too weird.
- She claims in the petition for DVPO that she is afraid to leave me alone with the kids for more than 8 hours, yet only 2 weeks prior to filing, the boys spent all day with me and had a sleepover at the house where I am staying. And only 6 weeks prior to her filing that petition, I spent a week with all 4 of the kids, alone. She approved both of these visits.
It is all just too weird.
The one psychologist suggested that hidden childhood trauma can lead to PTSD, trauma such as witnessing or experiencing violence in the home, witnessing or experiencing sexual assault, and so on. Other common causes are witnessing extreme violence as an adult, as in soldiers.
This seems to fit so clearly to my wife's behavior. She seems to perceive every stressful situation as a grave threat. And certainly there has been a great deal of stress in her life lately, with the affair and all the marital trouble we've had. My trying to address and resolve the conflict directly, through difficult conversations, in therapy and out of therapy, never seemed to work, and only seemed to lead to more problems. This all makes sense if she is experiencing PTSD.
The psychologist suggested that one way to investigate further would be to find out if there was physical or sexual assault in the childhood home. We had never discussed this issue in therapy. My wife once commented that she saw her father punch her mother in the stomach. I was shocked but never thought much about it. W did not like to talk about it.
I wonder if there is more to the story. But the psych told me that I cannot ask wife's mother or father, because they would be complicit in the trauma, if in fact it was present in the home. They are not reliable witnesses. The father might deny any violence (even now, 35 years later) and the mother might deny it as well, still shamed about it. (after the two split, the mother became an alcoholic). I could ask my wife's siblings.
I once asked W whether she had been a victim of sexual assault. She denied it quickly. I wonder if it is worth investigating further.
I'm considering what to do. It's delicate.
Next question is, what would I do if I had some evidence of violence or assault in her childhood home? I don't know what I could do with that information. It would have come in handy while we were still in therapy together, but at this point I don't see it as something I can use to open a discussion with her.
Sir,
You probably can't do anything with that kind of info (if it is there to find out) right now. If you do find out anything, I think you would need to keep it to yourself and not let her know that you know. Would her siblings let her you were asking about it?
Would it help you deal if you knew more about her childhood?
Yes, I would assume if I had a conversation with her siblings about their childhood, the siblings would also talk to my wife about it.
Would it help me deal with the situation if I knew of violence or trauma in her childhood? Mmmmm, I don't know. Right now I am sort of assuming it is there. As I watch this strange and disturbing drama unfold (at the same time that I am a primary actor in the drama), I am trying to figure out why it all happens and childhood difficulty for wifey seems to be the probable cause. Even without physical assault or sexual assault, her childhood was no good. An alcoholic mother, a father who abandoned her.
So I guess that learning whether there was or was not assault or a specific kind of trauma in her childhood is probably a moot point right now.
SPM,
It is a moot point. We already know that your W is a wack job liar so something must have happened. What is was, does it matter. It would be great if she could bring it out with a Pysc but that is up to her to want to do.
I feel really bad for your sitch. How do you find the strenth to carry on and pursue the situation?
Thinking about you,
Tree
SPM,
All I can say is WOW! This is way too eerie for me. I think my W has some repressed issues from her childhood as well or this could be some PTS from a sexual assault from her early college years. However, I think it is more of a childhod issue b/c when we were doing well, she was uncovering her feelings of abandonment due to her chronic illnesses in the hospital and her mother's post-partum depression. She also mentioned something about her father not letting her sit on his lap anymore once she hit puberty and said "maybe it was because he liked it."
She dropped the subject there and stopped looking into it. This is when she returned to the OM and began her "reign of fear" campaign against me. It sounds so similar to your sitch that I can't think the digging and her filing for a divorce are isolated incidents.
However, I'm like you b/c there isn't a thing I can do about it. W will have to want to do it on her own, plain and simple. I may have to express my "concerns" for her mental and emotional well-being in our parenting evaluations, but that is down the road a bit yet.
It is so very odd and strange. I know my W is FREAKED about the parenting evaluation and having to air our "dirty laundry" and I'm pretty sure it is b/c once we get into this process, she'll have to admit she doesn't have solid arguments against me any more.
Hang tough, my friend. I've made a point to mention "my friend who is having legal and custody issues" as an intention during the prayers we say at the start of each class. You're in my thoughts and prayers.
Keep pushing forward and compiling everything you need for Thursday. I'm sorry you are in this place. I really am. However, you are doing the right thing for your children and you will come out on top.
RTL
Thank you Tree and RTL for the words of support.
How do I handle it all? I don't know.
I try to keep perspective. My kids are still ok. I miss them, don't see them as much as I would like. But they are ok. Healthy, apparently.
Looking at all the filings, I am hopeful that I will have a positive outcome on Thursday. There is just too much wackiness in what she says. If she is saying that I left them penniless, but I have all the bank records showing I paid the bills and I have receipts for cash signed by her, then what will the judge conclude?
Yes, the court date is the 6th. I am hopeful.
I told someone today that I get to see my kids twice a week. TThey said "that's good!" It's funny how your perspective changes. A year ago I was with my kids every day. I hugged and smooched them every day. Now I see em twice a week. And that's supposed to be "good".
euh.
I'm enjoying this day as best I can. ...thinking of sneaking out for another bike ride this evening. and sometimes in a quiet moment, I am looking forward to better days ahead.
ps: I have been keeping my smile and cheer up, been noticing there are lots of attractive, single women out there. I am not currently in the market, but still, it is nice to exchange pleasantries with a nice woman with a sweet smile.
Nature Girl and Treese - both your threads locked up!
SPM, I wanted to tell you, with all you have going on, the fact that you took the time to post to me speaks volumes about you, my friend.
I will keep your children in my prayers. Put them first always.
It is hard taking the high road. But I promised myself, I would keep my dignity and integrity. And I see you have kept yours. You are fighting the good fight, SPM. And in the end, it will matter.
I will be thinking of you on the 6th and I will be praying that your W finds her way back before she does damage that can't be undone.
_________________________
Hey SPM, going for bike rides is a good thing. I can't wait for warmer weather so I could start.
When I see you write about your children, and how your miss them, it breaks my heart. So many men walk away from them, or have no time for them, and you want to see them more. It's just wrong. I have got to believe that in the end, all of this is worth it. That we will all find happiness and peace.
Hey Sir,
While your wife seems to be spiraling out of control, this may be good for you--and ultimately good for her as well.
You will be able to refute everything she has alleged in court where it will be public record. She will finally have to account publicly for the discrepancies between her allegations and the truth. Hopefully the court will send her a wake-up call and she'll hear it. Even if she doesn't hear it, you will be on your way to putting a home together for you and your kids.
Good luck tomorrow.
Nut
Sir -
Just a thought. Can you go to court and remain totally calm, cool, and in control? If so, great. If not - if you think you might get emotional, or angry, or allow W to push your buttons - take some precautions, okay? One long-time poster here had an H who made absurd allegations, but got the judge to believe him because she would get anxious and shaky and appear like a "hysterical woman" in court (as she was getting shafted by his outright lies.)
One solution to this problem is to ask your doctor for a prescription for a very tiny dose of a type of blood pressure medicine called beta blockers. They work by keeping your heartrate from rising, and are often used in small doses by performers to control stage fright, because they dampen that adrenaline reaction.
(I would stay away from any valium-type drugs, which could make you appear intoxicated).
Of course, if you feel confident in your ability to appear calm, cool, and collected, you don't need anything else.
Ellie
Nutfarmer,
I completely agree w/ your take on SPM's court situation. Once his W's crazy stories are out in the open, where will she be able to point the finger? Will she say that SPM lied and hid documents and evidence from the courts? Who will believe that? How will she face her family and friends who she's told all these awful, untrue stories to about SPM? It will be public record and indisputable.
I am in the same boat w/ our pending parenting evaluations, so I too can completely understand SPM. I think he's completely in great shape here and let's hope our judicial system is worth their salt and does the right thing.
Keep going SPM. You are doing the right thing, and despite the difficulties of it all, you will prevail.
RTL
SPM your wife is going to get what she hands out. I think she is in big trouble. Hang in there SPM. We are thinking about you!
SPM, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Please speak clearly, calmly and with conviction. Remember your children. Remember that you are telling the truth. Remember most importantly, that you matter, you are worthy. The high road is the right road. Best of luck.
Thank you thank you thank you everyone.
This is a nervouse time for me.
I am looking forward to the hearing - finally getting my say. Finally I have a chance at some justice. I hope the picture emerges clearly there.
My position will be - She doesn't want to be married to me, and there's nothing I can do about that. But her desire to dissolve our marriage does not justify a Domestic Violence allegation, nor does it justify me losing my access to our children.
I woke up not so calm today but as the day as gone on, I am calmer. I like the idea of the beta blockers but am a little shy of trying them the first time, in court. If only I'd had mroe time to try that out.
SPM, you could do it without the beta blockers. I know you can. Deep breaths, my friend. You are speaking the truth. That is all you need to remember.
Sir,
Just remember to measure twice, and cut once! Or, think twice, and talk once. From what I've read, if you give her the rope, she'll take care of everything herself!
Good luck to you!
oooooh, good! I'm glad you have confidence in me!
I'm going in prepared. Tonight I'm going for a run, then I will see my kids. Both of these are good endorphin releases.
Tomorrow morning, again a little exercise, to keep me calm.
Then to the hearing.
I have all my thoughts in order. I will speak clearly and truthfully.
This is the first W will hear my voice in over a month.
thanks, all!
Sounds like you have yourself a plan. Go for it!
She's really ticked. I hope that becomes clear to the court.
and, everyone....Don't get me wrong, I still want her back! (most people call me crazy.)
I want someone else to see that she is driven by anger and fear. Maybe she will see it reflected back to her.
SPM, I know you want her back. We are all a little crazy here.
I hope she does see how irrational her behavior is. I hope she realizes what is in the best interest of your children, which is to see their daddy as often as they can.
You wrote to me saying that "if it is possible to forgive yourself for not being perfect (and I sure hope it is)... then is it also possible to forgive your husband for not being perfect, too?" I know you will forgive her this, maybe you won't forget, but forgive her, I think you are the type of man who would.
_________________________
Sheesh, you're giving me my own advice? That's not even fair.
Ah... let's see, forgive her? I guess so. This seems really crazy to me. I don't understand why she's doing all of this, and I'm not sure she does completely, either.
She's in a bad place.
Can I forgive her? Well. I harbor no ill will towards her. is that enough? I wish for better days for her. is that good?
NatureGirl, your thread locked.
Something in there you wrote about
here.
The R talk you had with your husband.
NG, I think that was a very hard talk. I think you did well.
Stepping back just a little, I read that it seems you want more from him.
this part in particular:
- He doesn't want to talk to the kids until we have this all figured out.
- He has been ignoring it and hoping it will all go away.
- A couple times I felt like he just heard what he wanted to out of things that I said.
- H: Maybe I am just having a mlc. I don't think I am at all, but maybe I am.
- H: Im not selfish, Ive never done a selfish thing in my life and I dont think Im being selfish now
- H: I just want whats best for the kids given the circumstances and I think they can be okay unless you do things to make them not okay
- H: I enjoy this R we have right now and I dont know why we still cant be like this, doing stuff w/ the kids together but i dont have any other feelings for you than that
- H: one possibility is to just stay like this forever.
- I asked if we could just stay like this then why dont you want to at least try to stay like this but also try to find our intimacy -- he didnt like when I asked why he cant try.
It's great that he feels like he can be honest with you. That it is safe to say these strong things. Sounds like he is looking for a way out. "stay this way forever" is MLC code language for, I feel hopeless, I feel like a failure, I don't want to fail any more, I don't want to try anymore, I am tired.
You accepted that, but came right back with "why don't we try some more?"
Listen I have done the same thing, so don't think I am trying to pick on you. But the way I Read it, he was offering you something, and you could have accepted it more gently without asking for more.
you could have said - ok. I'm willing to consider that.
I'm not saying you
should have because that is up to each particular person. I'm not even sure that is a tenable plan. It wouldn't be for me.
But could you have been more empathetic and accepting?
Hey, it was good advice. I dont always play fair, anyway.
Of course you cant understand this, because it doesnt make any sense.
"Can I forgive her? Well. I harbor no ill will towards her. is that enough? I wish for better days for her. is that good?" Well SPM, what if I said that to you, what would you have answered?
Its not even important right now to decide if you can forgive her, just that there is the possibility that you can.
Jeff,
LOVE the "measure twice, cut once" mentality. I'm going to swipe that for me.
RTL
SPM,
Don't get me wrong, I still want her back! (most people call me crazy.)
If you are crazy, I hope I get the room next to you in the nut house because I'm off my rocker as well. I still want my W back despite everything, so I don't think you're crazy at all. In fact, I agree w/ what was said that we're all a bit daft b/c we do want to fight for our M and our partners despite what they've done.
Enjoy your kids and get some rest. You'll do very well tomorrow. Exercise in the morning will help set your tone for the day. That is a great plan. I'm going to make an extra trip in the morning to the chapel for you to hopefully give you strength, guidance, clarity, and calm tomorrow.
You'll be great. You are ready. You'll be fine. I'll send you some more positives in the morning when I get up.
RTL
Sir,
Tomorrow is the big day. I'll be thinking good thoughts for you. You'll do fine.
Nut
Thanks, all. Thanks for all the good words and positive juju.
It's a loooooong journey.
I feel like right now I am not at a particularly enjoyable waypoint on that journey, but in the not too distant future I could be actually speaking to my wife. Or, I will be on my way to getting my own place to live. or both. Either of which will be good for me, good for my kids.
Things will continue to change for you and the ultimate outcome will be a positive one in your favor. Let's continue to hope it will be an improvement of your relationship with your W.
Remember that you have nothing to worry about today because you have done nothing wrong. You are ready and the court will see that you are a wonderful father.
Follow Jeff's advice about cutting wood and you'll come out on top.
We'll be thinking of you and will be anxiously awaiting your results.
RTL
SPM,
I just wanted to stop by and send you lots of positive enery and BIG HUGS. You are going to be so awesome today. I'd tell you to picute me in a really garish cheerleading outfit complete with pom poms, but that really could make you crazy. Just the thought gives me the willies.
Seriously, all you have to do is look with your minds eye to see all of there behind you.
HUGS
ha ha ha! That gave me a good laugh, Grace!
and I needed it.
Bummer today.
I did not get to testify after all. There was no testimony.
The judge seemed rushed, seemed like she did not carefully read the reams of filings we had made. She wasn't clear on the details. None of the inaccuracies came out. None of the lies.
It feels so important to me, yet the judge was very clearly in a hurry to get through it.
ah well.
The punch line - the DVPO was granted, for a year.
Too bad for me. As for my motion for temporary orders - denied. The next step in the path is a parental evaluation, to be conducted starting in the next week or so. After that assessment, we'll come up with a parenting plan, and the court may modify or even rescind the DVPO at that time. Essentially the judge threw her hands up and said - I don't know what to do so I am going to ask for an expert evaluation on this.
I'm not feeling the best right now. It's not a significant change from what I have now. But, I was hoping to get an improvement. I thought a full "hearing" (in the literal sense, not in the legal sense) would allow the truth to come out, but we didn't have time for that. So ... status quo.
Afterwards, I phoned some of W's friends. Even now, none of them understand how she could be so angry at me, how our marriage went so bad so quickly.
One of the big things my wife said is that I have called her friends to intimidate them, so they would not file statements on her behalf in this case, and so on. I phoned these family friends back again today to inquire - not one of them said they felt intimidated by me. Not one. Someone here is not telling the truth... It's either my wife or all of our friends. I know which one I'm betting on.
One of those friends shared some memories with me of 2 years ago on my birthday. Their family was at our house, we had a big shindig, lots of people, lots of laughing and smiling. I told this friend that when I went to bed that night, I thought I was the luckiest man alive. I thanked the Lord for my blessings, most of all to be surrounded by my family and friends. I was very moved. I went to sleep smiling.
It was only a month later that my wife jumped into the sack with the former friend of mine (who was also at the dinner table with us that night). I can only shake my head.
My attorney got to see my wife for the first time - she remarked to me "She is really angry." Apparently that is very clear even to the casual observer.
SPM, I have been thinking about you throughout the day. I am so sorry things did not go the way you wanted them to.
You know your truth. Hold onto that. Hold onto your memories, they are real. Your wife is angry because she is confused and in crisis.
You have to regroup. I know it will be hard, but try to get your PMA back. Better days are coming. I have to believe that in the end, honesty matters, integrity matters, dignity matters.
Sir;
I am sorry things didn't go better for you...I was hoping you would get your say...but you really don't have to say anything..it will all come out in the end...she is going to regret all of this some day...just watch...my H says I'm painting a pretty picture for my family and friends and I told him that I didn't have to say a thing, they could figure him out all by themselves...I told my family and friends how much I loved him....we all know that in the end they are the ones bringing all the pain on to themselves...
You are doing so awesome..I don't think I could do what you are doing and with such a positive attitude...you have a huge heart..your kids know you are a great dad...it will show..trust God!
((((hugs)))
Treese
SPM,
Hey, I'm sorry the judge was not the one you were hoping for. However, you will get to do the parental evaluation (just like me) and your wife will have to disclose EVERYTHING W/ PROOF, so you'll have your chance to have your say.
My L told me that most Ws go into the parenting evaluation discussing what is best for "them" and not the kids. Be sure to focus on your kids and practice your lines w/ your L well in advance.
I am disappointed for you b/c I know you were looking for more concrete answers, but they didn't ocme. They will come, but it just won't be today. I'm sorry about that, my friend, but you will be fine.
You are a wonderful father and a good man. Keep those two things in prespective and you'll continue to do well.
I guess now we have even more in common, eh?
I'm heading off to the airport now, but I e-mailed you my phone number if you want to contact me this weekend.
Take care. You did well today because you will prevail here. It will just take more patience.
RTL
You will get your say in court and the cream always comes to the top. These MLCers are nuts. I think they actually believe thier own stuff. Crazy. Hangin in there man your day is coming.
SPM,
I was thinking about you today. I'm sorry you didn't get to say your piece. You will.
The eval's should help you get to see your kids and that's good.
Hope you're doing ok tonight.
Sir,
This is just the opening round of a long fight. Don't read anything into it. Now is the time to dig down deep and remember who you are. No matter what crud your W slings at you, don't let her get to you. Don't give her any power over you.
Keep your head high, the truth will come out.
My prayers are with you,
Nut
Sir, that really sux so bad how your day in court turned out.
I hope you are doing okay. Find your strength, find your pma.
I'll paste your earlier post to me back into my new thread so I don't highjack yours here.
(((hugs)))
I am not doing ok.
Divorce hurts.
I am not ok at all.
(((((hugs))))
Sir;;
What can we do for you today??? I will pray for you...you will find your peace...keep your chin up...the truth will come out...
sending you lots of hugs.....
Treese
Oh SPM, I am so sorry you are having a hard time of it.
I want to tell you all the things I am supposed to; hang in there, PMA, it will get better and they are true. But I am just going to say this, this sucks all the way around. It's not fair, it's not right and it is not how it's supposed to be. Your wife should be ashamed.
Now, yell, pound a wall, say a prayer and remember you will survive this. You have to - your children need you!
minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day is how we'll get through this.
I can't imagine your pain in having to deal with a spouse lashing out crazy like yours is and the slap in the face court day you had. It's not fair and it sucks.
I don't know what else to say except that I wish I could take all our hurts away.
Keep your chin up Sir!!!
As my Dad would say...its always darkest just before you find the light switch.
Peace.
SPM - Sorry to hear the news of the quick court decision. Hopefully, the evaluation will be much better.
You should try to get a hold of RTL when he is in Seattle - I assume you live in that area. You both have a somewhat similar legal situation and you might get some more good input from him regarding how to act in the parenting evaluation. I really feel for both of you guys as when my situation started I was most worried about getting the shaft in regards to parenting time. I feel fortunate to have my kids half the time and I think you should too - it is what is in their best interest.
Hey SPM, where are you? are you ok? Come talk to me.
SPM....Where are you brother?
Hey all you guys... thanks for your concern. I'm really bummed. I'm not going to do anything stupid, but... I am very disappointed. I have some people around me who are taking care of me, watching over me, spending time with me.
Let me tell you, this stinks. I am being railroaded.
I gotta get out of this hell.
I'm going to follow Winston Churchill's advice - when you are going through hell, keep going.
Stay strong, everyone. I know you all have your own trials you are going through.
and once again, thanks for the concern you've shown me. It's nice to feel understood.
Try to relax. This is just the way the justice system works. That judge doesn't want to risk being responsible for lifting the order and then you kill somebody, so they cover their but by ordering an evaluation. Sounds like standard operating procedure to me.
I know, it doesn't work the way we envision it; I learned that last year when my brother had to defend himself against a false charge.
Have you contacted a father's rights organization yet? You really really should, they can offer you valuable advice, this is not an uncommon situation.
Ellie
The justice system is an idiot.
I have a DV protection order, yet I get to see my kids twice a week.
I can see them, but I cannot telephone them.
I cannot email them. (Because that is somehow dangerous?)
I cannot phone their mom to ask that they have their bathing suits when I pick them up, because.... somehow that is dangerous or threatening. I cannot ask that they be ready for a hike, because that would somehow be violent.
The justice system is an idiot.
The justice system has declared that I must continue to pay the mortgage, as well as $4000 in support, as well as pay minimum credit card payments on credit cards that we ran up jointly. That leaves... let me see... negative $2000 for me, every month. Now can the justice system please explain exactly how I will pay minimum credit card payments with money I do not have? Will the justice system please explain how I am to continue working productively when I have no home to live in, no money to live on?
The justice system agrees with the petitioner that she is "unable to find work" though we live in the lowest unemployment metro area in the nation.
The justice system is an idiot.
Excuse me, but what is my incentive to continue working, under these terms? Work my arse off all week, for what? To have no home? No money? I can get that.. for no work at all!!
What is my incentive to NOT check myself into an insane asylum?
The justice system is an freaking idiot.
SPM, you are right. It's ridiculous and it sucks all the way around. It makes no sense at all. It makes you just want to scream. It's stupid, stupid, stupid!
You cannot check into an insane asylunm because your kids need you now more than ever. So, what are you going to do?
SPM,
I'm sorry you are down, my friend. I'm back in Seattle and I think we may head to Bellevue for dinner and drinks tonight. I'll have my cell if you are interested.
As for the courts, they suck. The only person who made out on Thursday was your W b/c she didn't have to admit she is way out of whack here. You have to allow yourself to be down, but get back up as soon as you can b/c you will be the one who comes out on top.
The legal system sucks. The entire thing is crazy, but I agree w/ Ellie that the judge has to cover her rear and that is why they did the parenting evaluation. Remember, the evaluation will eventually work out in your favor.
I'm really sorry, bud. I really am. I can understand where you are b/c we are swimming in similar ponds right now and I too am growing tired, tired, tired of the game. We both have to stay the course, be patience, and stay strong for our kids as well las for ourselves.
Talk to you later.
RTL
Check with your attorney and a father's right's group on this, but it seems to me, if you are being asked to pay more than you make, then the overage should be paid out of assets that would likely be split in the divorce - thus decreasing your ultimate liability by half, no? For instance - if she would be likely to get half of your 401 K, spending that down to cover these expenses would decrease what she would get. Better yet would be to spend down other savings. Worst would be to put it into debt in your own name - debt that might be claimed as "yours alone" since you acrued it after the separation.
What does your attorney say about this?
Ellie
SPM,
I am so sorry. This does not sound right at all. How can you pay more than you make. It doesn't sound right at all. Maybe you need another L or something. This makes noe sence.
Take care of your kids man! This is nuts but it will pss. You will get your day in court and the cream always comes to the top.
Tree
PS - aren't your kids old enough to dial the phone? Can't you make sure they have memorized your number and ask them to call YOU?
Ellie
Ah! Can the kids call me themselves?
Well, they can, yes. But I will BE ARRESTED IF I SPEAK WITH THEM.
!!!!
According to the DVPO, I may not speak to them.
Even if my wife or my kids reach out to me, I may not communicate with them.
That make sense to you?
Listen, I am still dealing with MLC but I am no longer really focused on divorce busting. Right now I am focused on surviving the onslaught. I am in waaaaay over my head, it seems. The legal deck is stacked against dads.
SPM,
What it looks like to me is your wife is being very well coached here, probably by her lawyer. Leaving the house was a huge mistake on your part but what is done is done. The protection order wasnt done because so is afraid of you it was to tarnish your character. She wanted you to signup for the abuser/anger class because that would reflect badly on you too. Follow what they have ordered to a T, despite how absurd it is. The parenting evaluation should help sway thing back in your favor but dont do anything stupid right now. Quit calling her friends, as this does look controlling on your part. Pretty much you need to pretend your wife doesnt even exists right now because right now she doesnt. You are dealing with a money grubbing, lying, cheating woman that USED to be your wife.
At some point I expect she will wake up and realize how badly she has acted. That is when it will be up be up to you to decide if you really want her back. Divorce sucks, I know. But maybe getting this woman out of your life isnt such a bad thing, it surely isnt when she is acting like this.
My gut feeling is that you feel like you have somehow failed your family if you cant somehow make this all work out in the end. Your end may not turn out how exactly you had hoped. But would a divorced dad with 50/50 access to your kids really be such a bad thing?
SPM, none of it makes sense, really. Do what you have to in order to get through this. Take it one step at a time. Get as much information as you can. Right now, concentrate on the parent evaluation. Don't get ahead of yourself. You can do this, I know you can. Breathe, and pray. Come here to vent. We are all here for you.
Listen, I am still dealing with MLC but I am no longer really focused on divorce busting. Right now I am focused on surviving the onslaught. I am in waaaaay over my head, it seems. The legal deck is stacked against dads.
Exactly right! - you should put aside all the DBing and focus on fighting for your rights.
I saw my brother go through this mess and believe me, it was stacked against the father. I can say that as his boy became older (14), the mother/son relationship deteriorated to the point where the mother hit him and my brother was able to obtain full custody. As of now, his son is serving in the air force and his ex-W is virtually a vegetable from all of the substance abuse and hatred she has held since the divorce 18 years ago.
Be patient and try to lose the anger against the messed up system as you will need to be calm and collected for the parenting evaluation.
We are all here for you and rooting that justice finally prevails.