Starting a new thread
Dating exW coming out of MLC Well it happened all over again, like I am replaying my life from 3 yrs ago.
Had plans to go hang out at exW house last nite after D10 went to bed. Around 9:45 I called to see if she was a sleep and she wasn't, she said she would call if she feel asleep soon or we can do it tom. Well I go to bed and around t 10:30 the phone rings, its exW saying she is asleep if you want to come over.
We watch tv for a little bit and then I ask her to come cuddle with me. We are kissing for a little and then I get the speech.
"I just don't think dating you right now is a good idea"
"I just don't have those feelings like I should and its not fair to you to put your life on hold. Maybe down the line this could work, I don't have a crystal ball but maybe 6 mo or a year or even 6 weeks"
"I like the way my life is right now"
You are doing nothing wrong, its me. I like all the time we spend together as a family."
I tell her I was not expecting any commiments from her and she was putting too much pressure on herself, I know she wants to date. She tells me she can't do that, she needs to be loyal at least to me.
So we were suppossed to go out Sat nite and I ask if she wants still wants to go. She said yes as long as it is as friends.
Should I go?
I feel so worn dowm.....how do I move past this?
Is this still part of the MLC?
I want to move on with my life but I feel I can't knowing there is a possibility that she may come back.
I am feeling so stupid for trusting her with my feelings, thinking she changed. Here I am again not sleeping, stressed and feeling like a chump and she goes through life like nothing changed.
"I just don't think dating you right now is a good idea"
"I just don't have those feelings like I should and its not fair to you to put your life on hold. Maybe down the line this could work, I don't have a crystal ball but maybe 6 mo or a year or even 6 weeks"
"I like the way my life is right now"
Well you have been at this a hell of a lot longer than me.
But if this quote above doesn't scream MLC to you, I don't know what will.
Again, I see you are so very tired sweets. I can only imagine how draining this is for you.
But, again, YOu are the one in control.
She has feeling for you, she felt scared. She pulled away. Isn't that what they all do? pull away when they feel close?
Well if you want to , you can be upset about this. You can pray, punch a wall , whatever gets you thru.
THen you will be stronger yet again.
If by Saturday morning you still feel very upset, then tell her, something came up, Let's make it for another time.
I love the "crystal ball" talk, My H does the same thing.
Hi ddc,
I haven't posted to you before, and only know your very recent sitch. So I'm just sending support here.
Like Lissie, I've only been at this about 2 years, and know nothing first hand about the MLC behavior during reconcilation. But she just sounds like she's still confused, depressed, and wanting to have it all.
I was reminded of the pursuer-distancer dance reading your post. It seems to me you have a chance here to just back way off, without giving up at all. YOu are D, you can go on being nice to her periodically, without pressing for anything else at all. IMO, letting her take the lead totally is your only choice.
I'm not saying you have to take the "crumbs" she offers. If you like being with her as a family, do it. If it hurts you, don't.
I hope that made some sense. I was getting hopeful reading your thread, and still am, I know they take a long time to come out, and they go backwards and forwards a lot being it is all "over."
Hugs.
AH
Hi Lis,
So you think going out Sat nite is a good thing?
I just don't get what they mean when they say " maybe in the future" She does acknowledge feelings for me but not the kind she should be feeling.
AH It seems to me you have a chance here to just back way off, without giving up at all. YOu are D, you can go on being nice to her periodically, without pressing for anything else at all. IMO, letting her take the lead totally is your only choice.
Not sure I get this. Are u saying to go a little dark and then pursue a little, like ask her out on date.
Isn't she the one that has to be in the lead?
She does acknowledge feelings for me but not the kind she should be feeling.
Not the kind that she SHOULD be feeling?
ddc, you are going into that analysis paralysis thing now.
can you just try to refocus on you for the next 2 days.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I really don't know what to say, I mean you are D. And she still wants to date you, but she wants to take it very slow.
So back off of her for a while.
AH It seems to me you have a chance here to just back way off, without giving up at all. YOu are D, you can go on being nice to her periodically, without pressing for anything else at all. IMO, letting her take the lead totally is your only choice.
Not sure I get this. Are u saying to go a little dark and then pursue a little, like ask her out on date.
Isn't she the one that has to be in the lead?
sorry, it is early and I wasn't clear!
No, I agree with you, let her take the lead. Be pleasant in your "normal" interactions with her, and just let her ask for what she wants from you, at least for quite awhile.
One caveat, if someone like AmyC, who has actually experienced this, says something different, listen to her!
Hugs.
AH
And she still wants to date you, but she wants to take it very slow.
Well thats just it, she does NOT want to date me. I thought I was taking it slow.
you are going into that analysis paralysis thing now.
Yes you are right, it is a trait of mine. I have to over analyze
everything
I would back off for a while and give her what she wants. This situation is too easy for her. Give her space.
DDC,
I'm really sorry to hear about this. I think it really is time to think of YOU and what's best for YOU. As Lis said, you are D. You've been out there meeting other women; is your XW still the best one for you? If so, then I'd say back off a bit, but still be around as a family sometimes. I think going out w/ her alone might be too painful.
If you don't think she's the best one, then maybe go back to minimal contact.
JMHO of course--I really don't know what I'm talking about, lol!
You've been out there meeting other women; is your XW still the best one for you?
Yes I do beleive so. She still makes my heart skip a beat when I see her. Now I am not saying she is perfect, but I do beleive we could overcome our issues.
Had a C appt today. He says to keep feel her out on Sat., see if she is warm and receptive. Go out as friends, nothing romantic. If things go well ask her if I can call her on Sunday, if she is receptive then see if she wants to get together one day during the week.
He feels I was ignoring some obvious signs from my exW and I was displaying some old bad habits like ignoring her feelings and bounderies. I should just replied to her text on Sunday, "sorry to hear you are upset, talk to you soon" The sitch with her family has some deep rooted pain and this festered all week which lead to the convo last night.
Now last night I sensed she did not want to cuddle and I kind of pressed the issue. Another bad move which ignored her feelings. I should respected that and just of been happy watching TV.
So I got some ground work to make up. He feels we have a good chance to reconcile if I learn patience and stop being the old DDC.
Easier said then done.
We watch tv for a little bit and then I ask her to come cuddle with me. We are kissing for a little and then I get the speech.
"I just don't think dating you right now is a good idea"
"I just don't have those feelings like I should and its not fair to you to put your life on hold. Maybe down the line this could work, I don't have a crystal ball but maybe 6 mo or a year or even 6 weeks"
"I like the way my life is right now"
Talk about deja vu. I was in this exact same situation about 3 or 4 years ago.
Referring to some wisdom that circulates on this board, words to the affect of -
"Actions speak louder than words"
"believe nothing they say and half of what they do"
For my 2cents, you got her. She's all yours. However, and it is a big HOWEVER, is that's she's still in lala land. She's still and alien and on an excursion from the mothership.
I also believe that even though she has thawed a little, her head is still up her a$$ and it is still all "me, me, me, me & more me".
You have to ask yourself and to clearly understand why you want this woman?
The fact that your heart skips a beat sounds a little primordial and is more of a statement of lust or attraction which is insufficient to sustain a relationship.
Now I am not saying she is perfect, but I do believe we could overcome our issues.
You do realize that MLC's see themselves as perfect? I challenge you to find one example on this board of an MLCer acknowledging that they have problems that a course in self help would resolve or improve?
You may think that the issues can be overcome but does your MLCer? Without her agreement and action, it ain't gonna happen.
The mistake I made was that I wanted to be a DB success story and spend 3 months keeping my mouth shut after kissing, ML, spending time together and hearing all the MLC BS after like you are hearing. But I didn't say a word, lived in limbo and we got back together. It didn't last long because the MLCer wasn't willing to budge an inch in terms of becoming a better person. To he!! with living like that.
You want her back. My view, you've got her. But what is it exactly that you are getting back remains unknown and I don't think that you know either setting aside the wishful thinking.
I agree with the advice that you are getting. Go back to DBing (GAL, LRT, be mysterious etc). Your choice to date is yours and although this is my personal view, I would encourage you to because you seemed to have low standards of what you think you deserve. It is an esteem issue. Build your confidence by meeting others.
Suit
suit Thanks for chiming in, your post hit on a lot of issues that I was discussing with a friend last night.
For my 2cents, you got her.
I don't really understand how I can have her if she is withdrawing, but one of my good friends made the point that he thinks she said those things in the heat of the moment and doesn't really mean them. He and just like everyone else keeps telling I need to stop analizeing every word. Live in the now and stop projecting into the future.
You have to ask yourself and to clearly understand why you want this woman?
Good question. I think a lot of it is ego driven, she dumped me and now I want to claim what was mine. I also believe I am addicted the sex with her, it is something I haven't been able to get close to with anyone else. I still look at her like the person I feel in love with 17 years ago. The was a lot hell in the past 4 year she put me through, all the harsh words and vindictive actions really crushed my self esteem. When she was like this I wanted no part of her, but now I see the old W and we have a lot of fun and relate real well to each other.
You may think that the issues can be overcome but does your MLCer? Without her agreement and action, it ain't gonna happen.
She did make a comment during the speech, that we could work through our issues if both us wanted to work on it. I do beleive that are some anger issue she will never get over. No, I do not want to live on eggsheels if we got back together, but until we do R, I can't make the determination.
Suit, what did you do when S gave you the speech that ultimately made them decide to come back?
Your post was exactly what I needed to read this morning.
This is an article that my C gave me yesterday that really helped me understand relating to W and how us M have a habit of not really listening to the words that are spoken.
I am guilty of going all of this wrong
Listen
When I ask you to listen to me and you start giving me advice, you have not done what I asked.
When I ask you to listen to me and you begin to tell me why I shouldn't feel that way, you are trampling on my feelings.
When I ask you to listen to me, and you feel you have to do something to solve my problem, you have failed me strange as that may seem.
LISTEN! All I ask was that you listen not talk or do
just hear me.
Advise is cheap. 50-cents will get you both Dr. Abby and Billy Graham in the same newspaper.
I can do for myself, I'm not helpless-discouraged and faltering maybe, but not helpless.
When you do something for me that I can do for myself, you contribute to my fears and weakness.
But when you accept as a simple fact that I do feel, no matter how irrational, then I can quit trying to convince you, and get about the business of understanding what's behind this irrational fear.
And when that's clear, the answers are obvious and I don't need advice.
Irrational fears make sense when we understand what's behind them.
Perhaps that's why prayer work's-sometimes-for some people.
Sometimes God is mute. He may not give advice or try to fix things.
He listens and lets you work it out for yourself.
So please Listen and just hear me
And if you want to talk, wait a minute for your turn, and then I'll listen to you.
I loved that. Thank you for posting it
exW calls this morning...now she never calls always texts. She opens me up with I need to discuss a couple of things in a business like manner. Now I am getting that walking on eggshell feeling which I haven't had in 2 years. I thought for sure she is going to tell me she thought about Sat nite and decided she doesn't want to go. Turns out she needed to discuss our health insurance and baby sitting arrangements for this summer.
I got to stop thinkig so much
I have been doing a lot of thinking the past couple of days and have took a real hard look at my dating habits with exW.
I've come to realize I was being very selfish and putting a lot of pressure on me to make this work which in turn was being sensed by exW.
I actually feel less pressure now that she told me she wants to just be friends, I mean really we have to be friends first before being romantic.
Here is what I plan on doing tonight.
On the way to dinner I am going to apologize to her about being insensative to her feelings on Sunday night when she text me that she was upset an did not want to talk and I kept pushing her to talk.
I am also going to aplogize for being a selfish jerk and not respecting her body language on Weds nite which said I do not want to make out. This lead to the speech.
Hereb is what I am going to tell her
"exW I respect your wish for us to be friends right now and I agree 100%. I just want you to have a good time tonight without any pressure and whatever happens happens. If you feel I am crossing your boundry please tell me and I will stop"
If the date goes real well I am going to end the night with this.
"exW I had a really great time tonight, how about I call you sometime this week and maybe we can hang out and watch a movie?"
Any thoughts???
Hi ddc...
I've never posted to you and don't know much about your sitch...but this are my thoughts...
Hereb is what I am going to tell her
"exW I respect your wish for us to be friends right now and I agree 100%. I just want you to have a good time tonight without any pressure and whatever happens happens. If you feel I am crossing your boundry please tell me and I will stop"
I think that this in itself is adding pressure...being a woman I sensed some pressure here...saying you want to be friends 'right now'....(so more later..) and whatever happens happens (it's as if you are assuming something might allready happen..)
I think it would be best to just go out with her and DO all the things you wrote....don't write them...DO them...she will feel that MUCH MORE !!!
I hope it works ...it was just MHO...
I agree with Cinders.
Relax, no pressure, casual conversation, and have a glass of wine!
Yep these things take time....no overnight miracles I'm afraid ...although, I can't wait till the day that I may be 'dating' my H again !!!
Oh well...I can dream...
Go out have fun, enjoy yourselfs....Rome wasn't built in a day !!!!
Relax, no pressure, casual conversation, and have a glass of wine!
I already was planning on that wine!
Thanks guys for posting I have followed your threads as well but never posted.
I appreciate your opinion from a W point of view and will not say those words.
Is it OK to apologize for disrespecting her feelings?
Is it OK to apologize for disrespecting her feelings?
Yes of course, but it's much better to respect them next time... it's more the ACTIONS than the WORDS that do it I think !!!!
Good luck !!
Thanks Cinders
Funny thing is my brain tells my the right thing to do but my mouth doesn't listen
Go with your heart !!! You will be fine....one step at a time ...
Well I will be leaving in a couple of hours for this date "as friends" Really not sure what to expect from her. She did text me today to confirm she is meeting me at my house at 7pm.
When she told me she can't date me right now Weds nite and then still agreed to go out tonight as friends, is typical for MLCers to pull back like and should I act "as if" we are still dating tonight? I mean without all of the romantic stuff and pretend that speech never happened?
Relax, have fun, just as you would with any other friend !! No pressure, just fun....good luck !!
Just to recap
After about 6 weeks of dating my exW she hits this past Weds with the speech again. She loves me but doesn't have feelings like she should. We need to be friends and maybe somewhere down the line things will change. So OK this is all posted in this thread.
Here is some info that I left out about the convo Wed nite
We had already agreed to go out last nite a few weeks ago and she agreed to still go as "friends" as long as I wasn't taking her to a hotel. I jokeingly no we are going the casinos , but make sure you were a black thong in case. She says "why you won't see it, just take a cold shower" I laughed and went home.
Next day she text me "r u warmed up yet" (meaning from the cold shower) I said yes it was nice and warm, but don't forget that black thong. She replies, we'll see.
Ok no back to the date.
She comes over looking stunning, I compliment her and gave her a kiss on the cheek.
As soon as we arrived at the casinos, I decided to see just how much attenttion was willing let me give her.
I brushed my hand against hers and she grabbed and held it most of the night as we walked around. She left put my hand on her knee while we were playing table games and she had no problem letting me put my around her waist.
Now this is the most touching she has let me do since we started dating.
It was getting late and I asked her if she wanted to leave and go back to my house for a little bit. She said fine.
We get there and it is a chilly rainy nite so I turn on the fireplace and lay on the floor next to it with a blanket and pillow. She came right over and layed next to me and intiated ML!
I am in total shock and disbelief.
She text me on the way home thanking for a great time and said the sex is still great. She has never sent a text thanking me, I always intiated one.
OK so what is going on here?
How does she go from I don't feelings like I should, to ML.
As she was leaving I did act as if and said we'll do this again real soon and she said we'll see.
How do I proceed from here?
ddc -
This is a tough spot. It's so hard to know what she is thinking, impossible really.
I think it's best to just keep doing what you have been, and play it by ear. See if there's another good opportunity to ask her out soon, maybe she will even drop a hint.
I wonder if she was testing her "feelings". If so, seems like you passed! It may actually make her even more cautious, though, so she might cool off a bit now. Be prepared.
My only caution would be to not get into this too deep too fast. I know that's probably impossible, but just try if you can.
~ Nicola
My only caution would be to not get into this too deep too fast. I know that's probably impossible, but just try if you can.
yes I know what you mean and it will be very tough but I do think I need to cool my jets and not let her think I am putting pressure on her to commit to a R.
Even aside from her and her feelings, I think it is important for YOU. You have been through the wringer with her.
Hey ddc !!!
Sounds like you had a great night !
Enjoy what you had and don't expect anything on the next date....just see what happens then...
step by step...
Nicola's advice to you is great !!
Glad you had a good time !!! AND WOW for having ML....I can't wait for that to FINALLY happen again....IF EVER !!!
Take care !!
D10 had a basketball game this AM, so I picked them up and we went together. The exW was very attentive and look very comfortable being around after last night.
I thought she might slip back to being withdrawn, like she was most of last week.
Funny how a MLcers attitude changes so quickly.
Still trying to understand what happened from Weds nite to last nite that made her want to be physical with me after saying she doesn't have those kind of feelings.
Oh well one day at a time
ddc,
I have never posted to you before, but just got done reading your threads. I have been M for 10 years, we have a d7 together.
My H left me almost 2 years ago , involved with Ow, in process of a divorce, and I believe he is in a MLC.
From what I have read in your posts, your S left 3 years ago and you are divorced, is that right? I also ready some of the issues that you posted about your M and how your S felt neglected by you.
My H has expressed similiar things to me. For the first year after he left we went from still being initimate and dating to him cutting me out of his life and turning very angry and nasty with me, threatening divorce many times over the past 1 1/2 years, but never filed until recently.
I found out about 1 year after he moved out that he had Ow. Up until this time I was suspicious, but didn't have proof. H has always denied he was having an A before he left me, but I now know he was. H also told my MIL that he had been confiding in Ow for awhile, but she was just his "friend".
He is living with Ow and H has filed for divorce. He treats me almost like an aquaintance. He is very distant and cold towards me. I have am pleasant to him and try to be upbeat in his presence. I don't bring up Ow to him at all.
My question to you is- how exactly did you treat your XW since she left you? Have you always been kind and treated her with respect inspite of her walking away from your M??
Lately I feel like I am on the right track with my H, even though D is looking pretty inevitable right now. Just this past week he has been nicer to me and even asked me about a tooth in his mouth that is bothering him tonight ( I am a dental Hygienist)
I still love my H and know this is going to be a very long journey with no guarantees, but I am willing to continue to stand for my M anyway. We had something very special once and want nothing more than to have another chance with him.
H still has Ow and moved in with her this past Novemeber. I think he is in love with her or at least he thinks he is. From what I am told about Ow, she is pushy, ugly, and well-- she got involved with a M man with a family, shall I say more?? She is a "shank". I hope that my H will begin to see her true colors soon. He has been with her for over 2 years now so I am beginning to lose hope that their A will end anytime soon.
My hope is that once Ow begins to show her "warts", H will begin to see me in a new light. Maybe he will look back at me. I am trying to become a woman only a fool would leave!
I have been working on myself for the past 2years. Becoming a better person and making needed changes. I have learned so much about R's and how to maintain and sustain them. If my H would only come home he would see that our M would be different. I wish he would believe in us again.
WOuld you mind giving me some advice on how to treat the WAS with respect and dignity, while being their friend?
Thanks,
KTF
Hey man,
Suit, what did you do when S gave you the speech that ultimately made them decide to come back?
You obviously didn't read my post. The answer is in there. Tip : read the bit about keeping my lip buttoned while the alien talk continued straight after ML.
Talking of ML....I hope your are happy now? and grateful of the high 5's you're getting from those who have no idea of the consequences of their congratulations and encouragement.
Maybe I should ask you a second time to go back and re-read my post to you on page 1 of this thread. It's even more deja-vu'ish that I first thought.
I told you that the cat was in the bag, I told you provided you kept your mouth shut when it came to R stuff, that you'll have your ex back. But I also asked you, is she *really* what you want and *really* what you deserve.
Buddy, it is an achievement of monumental proportions to have back, the love, affection and interest of someone that rejected you in the first place. It is mammoth achievement but be warned, that love, affection and interest has completely vanished before and it can disappear even quicker the 2nd time when the alien decides to withdraw it. Dang, they are so good at doing this. It is their primary strength.
Man, but if in the fullness of time, if this person backflips because they haven't done enough work to become a self happy person and look to you for their happiness.....all you've done is bought yourself a time bomb with a silent tick. What you end up like is the same as me, someone that's tread water for 2 years...I'm saying this because nothing that you write about even remotely shows that your ex has renounced her selfishness, she still speaks fluent alienese and sounds like she is still at the base of the summit of self happiness and fulfillment?
This is an investment that is going to determine the rest of your life. For as long as you are ML, going on dates and all that other stuff, you are
giving her permission to stop growing as a normal and emotionally healthy person. Even though there is definitely some light at the end of the MLC tunnel, she has still got a long way to go. A very long way to go. They say that the awakening happens at around the midpoint, so of you've been at this for 2 years, guess what? 2 more years to go. I'm not sure if it is accurate but know for sure, that the midpoint ain't the time to either put your life on hold or to start planning a future with them.
Dude it's your life, you do what you like with it. All I'm telling you is the the prize is not determined now, it's determined well into the future.
Sorry that I can't post something that you'd like to hear, my conscience won't allow me to do that.
God Bless
Suit
KTF First off let me say I am very sorry for you stich, but I can relate to what you are going through.
Let me see if I can answer some of your questions
My question to you is- how exactly did you treat your XW since she left you? Have you always been kind and treated her with respect inspite of her walking away from your M??
My exW was a very bitter person full of a lot of anger toward me from about 10/03- 7/05. She filed for D in 10/04 and it was fina; 12/05. We lived in seperate bedrooms until 8/05 when I could not do it anymore and keep my sanity.
When I realized that she was being an irrational person and you can not rationalize w/ such a person I felt much better.
I treated her like I would treat a very good friend, like a business partner. She would only speak with me if it had to do with our D10 or to chew me out about something she thought I was doing wrong. I would not lose my cool, I listened, validated and tried to keep the conversations short. If she called for a favor, and yes this is when they are sweet as pie, I did it if it was resonable and I had the time. When it came to holidays or her b/day I always thought about D10 and how would she like to see us interact.
Example, this past X-mas I had D10 X-mas eve into X-mas AM. Now this will probably the last year she believes in Santa and I thought of how much she would like to see both Mom and Dad their in AM. I also know how much it would mean to my exW if she could the look on her face for maybe the last time.
I extended an invite to the exW to come over in the AM and she was very taken back but accepted. Now she would never have done this for me, but you need to take the high road, love uncondtionally. These are the actions that the MLCer notices and ultimately makes you shine as a better person.
Plus I did this for myself as well, it made me feel good to know I am not the type of person that she is.
After the D I bought a boat, new truck, all new furniture and all of this would tick her off. She would always make comments about how this is her money I am using, trying to engage me in a arguement. DO NOT follow their lead, ignore the banter and stay focused.
My exW now say she notices all of the changes I have made, how great of a father I am. The fog does lift and will notice the new you but don't expect them to admit it.
Your H is still in that fog, we all now that a R that starts as an A will never last.
I have learned so much about R's and how to maintain and sustain them. If my H would only come home he would see that our M would be different. I wish he would believe in us again.
I think we all beleive this, WE do know that we have made changes, and like I said above they do know as well but WE can not change their behaviors.
I tried to convince my exW all the time that we could be much better. Wouldn't work they got to figure out this on their own.
Keep your chin up, your changes will make YOU a better person in the long run.
I applaud you in taking a stand for your M, my prayers are with you.
ddc,
Thank you for all the great advice. I think I am doing a pretty good job of taking the high road. I guess b/c my H still treats me like a stranger most of the time I feel like things between us will never change, but when I read stories like yours I realize that they can. Thank you for that! Your stitch gives me hope.
I am realizing that all of this takes lots and lots of time and patience. I do believe that my H is noticing my changes , but agree with you that he is still in a fog. He isn't close to being ready to admit he may have made a mistake.
In the meantime I will continue to be a friend , from a distance.
If he asks for a favor I will help him out occasionally, but not every time. I am trying to show him what unconditional love is by my actions. Hopefully he will see this.
Right now I feel like maybe he has been kinder to me b/c we are starting the divorce action and he doesn't want me to "rake him through the coals!" He figures if he is nice to me I won't go after more money.
I hope I am wrong and he is being nicer b/c he is seeing my positive changes. I have been trying to be a better listener and be compassionate with him when he does call me about something. I try to be considerate of his feelings about things even though it isn't reciprocated !!
I am a very trusting person and want to believe people when they tell me something. I used to think this was a good trait, but now I wonder. When it comes to my H , he takes advantage of this b/c he knows this about me.
After your D in 12/05, how often did you see your XW? How did she notice you had changed if you no longer lived together and were dating other people?
I really do appreciate you posting back to me. It has helped .
Thanks,
K
After your D in 12/05, how often did you see your XW? How did she notice you had changed if you no longer lived together and were dating other people?
Having a D10 we saw each other at least 3 times a week. I watch my D after school 3 days.
One of her complaints was I didn't spend enough time with my family and wasn't an involved father. I was guilty of all that.
She noticed me making my D a priority in my life, I never missed a school function, went on vacations and did fun father-daughter stuff on my weekends.
What I think happens is when the fog lifts they see things weren't as bad as they thought.
My exW admitted to me last month that the "grass is not greener"
She also saw me being financially responsible with her, meaning her alomony/CS payment was always on time. If I owed her money for a school activity or clothes, I never argued and paid her the money.
Loving uncondtionally is for
YOU , expect nothing in return. It is very rewarding when you learn how to do this.
I know how hard it is when they do not reciprocate nice gestures.
Remember the big guy upstairs sees it and that is all the counts.
Suit I took time to read through your stich and I can see what you went through.
I see where our sitchs are similar in how our WAW are acting.
Man, but if in the fullness of time, if this person backflips because they haven't done enough work to become a self happy person and look to you for their happiness
I agree 100%, they need to do work on themselves. Has she changed, maybe , maybe not. I do now that the person she was when she started this journey is different than the person she is now. She is much more confident person, I do beleive she has experienced a lot growth in the pasgt 1.5 years and I applaud her for that.
Yeah maybe this will blow up, but you know what when I can lay my head on my pillow at night saying I did everything I could to put my family back together then and only then will be at peace.
Until then I am standing for what I beleive in the santity of M and the importance of an intact family for my D.
Will I accept my wife if she has not changed in ways that will be beneficial to our M, NO! She will have to show me she will commit to doing that, I beleive she will in time.
ddc,
Thanks! I think I am finally starting to understand this unconditional love thing. I show my H that I am the better person-- still do kind things , be understanding and considerate of his feelings inspite of all the idiotic things he may be doing, while setting boundaries with him of course.
I will just keep reminding myself that he is a self-absorbed jerk right now and it is all about him, BUT I don't have to be that way. This is not me and I am going to take the high road everytime!
When the fog lifts he will see me for the wonderful person that I truly am. I just have to get to the point where I believe this--- my self-esteem isn't the greatest right now, but I'm working on it!
Thanks again, hugs to you...
K
ddc,
I just posted back to you on my thread. Would you mind stopping by to read it?
Thanks,
K
After a brief talk with my C today, I decided to send exW a Friendship card, thanking her for a wonderful time Sat nite. I felt like she should pursue me a little and he had a differnt spin. C said she tried getting your attention for 17 years, she was pursuing you, you pushed her away. We are not trying to make her work for it. Goes against DB'ing principle but so far everything I have done has been met with a positive outcome.
She will get the card tommorrow and I am sure she will call or txt me. I then will see if she wants to hang out watching a movie Thursday nite.
After a brief talk with my C today, I decided to send exW a Friendship card, thanking her for a wonderful time Sat nite. I felt like she should pursue me a little and he had a differnt spin. C said she tried getting your attention for 17 years, she was pursuing you, you pushed her away. We are not trying to make her work for it. Goes against DB'ing principle but so far everything I have done has been met with a positive outcome.
Good work. That wasn't going against DBing. What you're doing is called a 180.
I'm here to support you in whatever it is that decide to do. I'm happy to share advice and it's up to you what you do with at. Irrespective, I want you to be happy and it sounds like you are happy making heaps of baby steps with your ex.
God Bless
Suit
Suit I'm here to support you in whatever it is that decide to do. I'm happy to share advice and it's up to you what you do with at.
I appreciate the candid advice and the ordeal you went through.
Well an unexpected thing happened last night that seems to have brought the exW a lot closer to me.
We had a wicked Nor'Easter come through the east coast over the weekend. She calls me last night and she has 3" of water in her finished basement. Now she bought me out of our maritial home and that basement never had a drop of water in it.
Her gutters have not been cleaned out in 2 years, so the result was the water had not where to go but come up the foundation.
Home Owners Ins. does not cover this.
I went over right away and she was in tears. The damage was extensive. She was worried about how she was going to pay for the repairs. Look like about 2-3K just to clean up the mess. I told her not worry, I would help her financially, she could pay me back whenever.
I was hanging out with her outside while she smoked what looked like a pack of cigs. She was very stressed, I gave a neck rub and then we hugged for about 10 mins. She was worried about paying for this and how will she be able to our D10 on vacation because this will tap her out. I said maybe we can take a family vacation, she said SURE thats an option!
She could not thank me enough for helping her. I told her this needs to be tackled tommorrow before mold sets in. Well of course every company that does this work is swamped with business.
My buddy offered his help and 2 of his workers. We got some sump pumps, thank fully he has a big floor dryer. Lots of work will need to be done in the next couple days. But she should be able to have it cleaned up for around 600-800.
Now I needed to be at the exW this Am while she was working, she said no problem I will give you the code to the garage door.
What?
She changed the locks when I moved out and refused to allow me in the house. Amazing how they change.
As I was walking out the door last night, she said Hey!.
What? Come over here.
She the initiated a kiss and hug! First time she had done this.
This afternoon she worked a half day and I was at her table doing work and she came in, said hi and walked over and gave me a kiss! Wow! Another intiation of affection.
I was running around in the afternoon getting supplies when the mail arrived with the card I sent her.
She sent me a text "Wow what a beautiful card. thank U!
I replied " glad u liked it. It fit you perfectly
She replies "Loved it thanks for thinking of me, as usual!
I am glad to see it was a big hit.
My buddy was kidding around with her while I was gone and he told me he said to her. Don't worry about paying us, you just give ddc sexual favors. Now he does not know we ML on Sat.
He said she had a big smile on her face and no problem I would loved too!
Damn, if I knew a flood in the basement was going to bring close to me I would stuck a garden hose down there years ago
ddc,
Damn, if I knew a flood in the basement was going to bring close to me I would stuck a garden hose down there years ago
hahahaha, I know you are only joking :-)
I went over right away and she was in tears. The damage was extensive. She was worried about how she was going to pay for the repairs. Look like about 2-3K just to clean up the mess. I told her not worry, I would help her financially, she could pay me back whenever.
Dude, you can't be there to rescue them whenever they get into trouble. It's unhealthy, breeds dependency and gives them permission to put their happiness into your hands. The next time you don't pick up on their telepathic messages to do something for them and you don't read their mind, guess what? it breed silent resentment that they bank, accumulate interest on and one day out of the blue, it turns into a bomb. Let them take care of themselves. Isn't that what they wanted when they D'd you?
Soft Nosed Version : Dude, you shown tremendous loves and compassion. I'm sure it is apparent to her that the grass aint greener on the other side. And that a strong, attractive and loving man that stands by her through thick and thin, is just what she unquestionably wants in her life.
God Bless
Suit
Suit
I love your posts, you sure know how to keep it real!
Spoke briefly with her last night,she said the house really stunk from the wet carpet she was getting a migrain so she was going to bed. I hung up and then sent a quick text, saying "sleep well, luv u". She replied back "Luv u 2, c u 2moro thank u again".
Back over the exW house today for some more clean up. Couldn't stay long as I had a Dr. appt, but my buddies were ripping out carpeting. She called me around 11:30am asking me if I wanted to go to lunch, not sure if she was going this because she felt obligated for all of my help or if see really wanted to. We had a nice time at lunch, she said my D was sleeping over her parents fri night as she had made plans to go out with her g/friend. I asked where, she said she didn't know.
I asked if she was still going to see if D could go over friends house on Sat and she said sure she just didn't if we were going to mulch or not. So it looks like she still wants to spend time with me.
She made an interesting comment a couple of nights ago, saying how she really doesn't get a good night sleep, she tosses and turns. Now she was always a sound sleeper.
That is how I have been since the D, I can not sleep. I guess it is from stress. I took comfort that she probably feels the same way. We assume the WAW/WAH has no remorse or side effects, they just hide it very well and most will never admit to it.
I send the exW some flowers at work today to brighten up her day after the week she was having and she loved them but said I didn have too. I said I know but I wanted too.
I invited exW to dinner with D10 and she agreed.
In the same text I asked her if she wanted to hang out later and she replied "thought we agreed on how things are and we are going to be good friends"
What does this mean?
I feel like asking her to clarify why she had sex with me and how does mean we are friends.
Any input on how I should handle this.
We had great time Sat nite, ML and she was affectionate all this week bec
She sent me another text saying probably not a good idea because it leads to more.
I so feel like asking didn't Sat nite mean anything
Well we had dinner and I asked if we still we doing something Sat and she said my D friend has plans so I guess not.
I guess she noticed my frustration because I didn't say goodbye to her when we left the restaurant.
She sends me a text saying "lots of traffic" as we both go down the same road to get home. The about an hour later see sends another one sying " Flowers smell so much better than mold. Thanks again"
Normally I would reply with something cute and long, I just said "ur welcome"
I'm done for the weekend, if she needs me she knows where I am at.
Man I hope the penny drops for you real soon. You're really not getting this are you?
I send the exW some flowers at work today to brighten up her day after the week she was having and she loved them but said I didn have too.
thought we agreed on how things are and we are going to be good friends"
She sent me another text saying probably not a good idea because it leads to more.
She sends me a text saying "lots of traffic" as we both go down the same road to get home.
The about an hour later see sends another one sying " Flowers smell so much better than mold.
It's really quite simple. She is so confused that she doesn't know what she wants. On one hand, she wants you. On the other hand, she doesn't want you and remembers why she D'd you in the first place.
However, what really chilled me was -
I guess she noticed my frustration because I didn't say goodbye to her when we left the restaurant.
WTF, that is childish and proves you aren't ready for a relationship with anyone. You're finding hurt in the most insignificant daily, routine things. Not only do you find hurt, you feel a burning need to show it. You'd better fix this before you sabotage this new R with your ex before it gets a chance to grow. Yeah, it's that serious. I don't know your age but whatever it is, evidently you have some growing up to do.
I'm done for the weekend, if she needs me she knows where I am at.
That is the best thing for you to do no matter what has transpired and best for you to use this time to work on yourself and to improve the quality of your life by getting out and meeting new people (GAL).
Sorry for the brutal honesty.
On the other hand, despite the minor setbacks (in the scheme of things) you have all the power now. While your ex is playing coy, the reality is that you have her hooked but you don't seem to have a clue on how the reel her in. That's your challenge and your struggle combined. Here's a tip to get you started. Do some real, hardcore DBing.
God Bless
Suit
Suit WTF, that is childish and proves you aren't ready for a relationship with anyone.
Yes, it was childish and I realized that at the time. I am 41 for the record and my feelings have been getting hurt quite easily since I have been back with the exW. I just can't grasp the idea how she can go from one extreme to the other. And yes I know I need to do that soon.
On the other hand, despite the minor setbacks (in the scheme of things) you have all the power now. While your ex is playing coy, the reality is that you have her hooked but you don't seem to have a clue on how the reel her in.
I am glad to see you are an enternal optimist. I wish I could see the power I have right now. She plays this off like its no big deal and that drives me crazy.
Yes back to DB'ing.
Once again your insight is most helpful
After this weekend I don't know if my exW is MLC or just emotionally unstable person.
If saw the old her yesterday and it was not what I was expecting.
After not talking to her since Thursday, I promised I would helo her put mulch down at her house on Sunday after my D10 basketball game. I picked up my D and exW around 11:30am and as soon as she got in the trunk I could tell she was a little standoffish. She had her arms crossed the whole time, she was pleasant but certainly not interactive with me like she was last Sunday (after we ML the night before). On the way home I saw the bitchy side of her emerge.
We stopped at the deli to get some sandwichs and she got bitchy with two people in the store for no reason. One lady asked if she was in line, she snapped back "if your standing behind this person you are" then a minute later she is using her debit card and the cashier asked "credit or debit?" My wife did not hear her, so the cashier said it again, my wife barks back "you should speak up a little louder" No she has a puss on her face so the break the tension I say "you had a bigger smile on your face last Sunday" She said "your dilusional" Huh?
Back to her house to mulch and I got a around to asking why she said I was dilusional, she said she was agravated.
After we were done, we sitting on the front step drinking water and I asked her a question that was bothering me about the sex last week. We did not use protection, so I asked her if she was using any with her previous b/f's. She said sometimes, but once they were a b/f then no. She said don't worry I am clean I was tested in Oct. I was like why? No reason just being careful.
So I had to say, "did you sleep with that many guys" She said don't ask me questions like that. She said you can never be too careful. I made a comment about how great the sex was and she said yeah it was good time. I ask her if it felt like before, she said no, the physical was the same but things are different now, not the same as we were married.
I go to leave and we give each other a big tight hug, I tell her I love her. She does not reply. First time she has not replied.
I don't how she can be all affectionate on Mon/Tues and now cold as ice.
This was the person I remember from the past three years.
I am being to think she is not MLC and just emotionally scared
I don't know if this is part of the process or she can shut down her emotions fast like that.
I was also doing some other soul searching since this all began.
- She has never asked me how I am doing
- She has never asked me how my day was or how work is going
- When I was at the Dr on Wed, she never asked what I was there for?
- She has never invited me to dinner either by our selves or with D10. I have done this a dozen times.
- She only calls me when she needs something.
- She has only sent two texts intiating a Hi.
Is this how a MLC person treats people?
Is this how a MLC person treats people?
ddc, it usually us alot worse than that.
You really are approaching this like she is 'cured'. If you change your thinking into thinking that she has been diagnosed and recovery takes 36 months, then you would screw down your expectations to zero, wouldn't you? That's what you need to do good buddy, have no expectations then you'd have no reason for feeling hurt.
On the sex talk, man you asked way too many questions. Way too much information and enough to screw with your brain for weeks, if not months and maybe years to come. Just don't go there because it's something that you can't deal too well with at the moment.
During the time that you have known your ex, has she demonstrated a history of 'emotionally shutting down'?
I go to leave and we give each other a big tight hug, I tell her I love her. She does not reply. First time she has not replied.
Hey, it's not only me but all the other good people have posted to you have suggested that you do the whole DB thing.
Either your are showing your blatant disregard for this advice or you have simply forgotten what DBing is all about because you broke the cardinal rule of saying ILY.
I suspect that you've forgotten DBing and in that case, blow the dust off your copy of Divorce Remedy and if you don't have it anymore, buy yourself a new one and get stuck into reading it and have a note pad handy so your can scribble down some key points that relate to you.
God Bless
Suit
During the time that you have known your ex, has she demonstrated a history of 'emotionally shutting down'?
Yes, she has had relationship problems with her family and close friends. She don't speak to her 2 brothers and has written off three of her close friends. She was sexually abused as a child and I do beleive this has something too do with her personality. She has never told anybody other than me and has never sought treatment.
Either your are showing your blatant disregard for this advice or you have simply forgotten what DBing is all about because you broke the cardinal rule of saying ILY.
I got caught up in her wanting to work on the R and did let my feeling fly around too much.
I did re-read DB this weekend and have already started backing off.
I will not intiate any contact, will not be returning her texts or phone calls right away, going to stop the excessive complimnets, no ILY's and no more cards or flowers.
Well I got a thank you card in the mail that kind of sums up what her feelings are about our R.
She thanked me for all of my help and it was`appreciated. "I'm sorry things didn't work out for us the way we thought or hoped, but I really hope we can still be good friends"
I guess this tell me what I need to know
ddc,
Maybe she just got scared off b/c of all the ILY's and gifts.
Go dark for awhile with your W, I bet you will see things turn around again, but this time when they do keep up the DBing even if she starts to come around.
Don't get discouraged. Let your wife go off and twist in the wind a while longer. I guess she wasn't ready to come out of her tunnel quite yet.
Hugs,
K
Hi KTF,
thank for the words of encouragement. Somehow I just feel this is how she really wants it. I can't see myself putting my life on hold anymore.
I think she really enjoys her single life.
ddc,
She probably does right now, but someday she will wish she had back her M. She doesn't realize what is really important in life b/c she is messed up.
I can see how you read all her signs as her wanting the R back, I would have done the same thing. Just goes to show you that it takes lots of time for them to completely come out of their fog and out of their MLC.
She will realize how lucky she was to have had a guy who was willing to do anything for her, change himself too. By that time it may be too late b/c you will have moved on with someone else who appreciates all your wonderful changes.
Hugs,
K
She will realize how lucky she was to have had a guy who was willing to do anything for her, change himself too. By that time it may be too late b/c you will have moved on with someone else who appreciates all your wonderful changes.
Yes you are right, funny thing is she even said the grass is not greener and I am a good catch for someone.
I need to move on, I have to close the chapter in my life for now. If she changes her mind before I get involved in another R I will think long and hard before I expose my heart again.
ddc,
That statement about knowing you are a good catch , tells you right there that this is about HER not YOU.
My H actually said something very similar to me. He told me I was a great person on many occasions. I still wonder if I'm so great then why don't you want me? I have just come to the conclusion that this is about him and not me b/c I am a good person with so much to offer.
I think you are doing the right thing by closing this chapter in your life for now. If and when you W does change her mind ( most likely she will) make sure you take her back on one condition , that she gets some therapy to help her with her issues. Be careful ,, I would hate to see you get hurt all over again.
K
Hi ddc,
Well, I'm sorry about the email, but I think the good effect of it is that it is leading you to back off again and think of yourself first. I can only imagine how hard it would be to think that maybe there was a chance after all this time, only to find out that (maybe) there isn't.
Whether she's MLC or emotionally wounded doesn't really matter ~ either way, she is not a good partner to you right now, as is evident from the list you made.
I hope it will be easier for you to move ahead with your own life, since you've done it before. I think it will.
Best,
Nicola
She thanked me for all of my help and it was`appreciated. "I'm sorry things didn't work out for us the way we thought or hoped, but I really hope we can still be good friends"
It seems that every person you ask, has a different interpretation of what this word "friends" means. I'm guilty of it myself. When I use it in the context of a guy, it's a buddy type thing. We can hang out, shoot some pool, talk chicks etc.
When it comes to me referring to a girl as a friend, there are 2 types. The 'sister' type female friend who I wouldn't think of getting her panties off and then there's the other type whom I would...without hesitating. The latter, could turn into a full blown relationship if the other factors are right.
Your ex hugs you, kisses you and ML to you. You help her, she sends you a card, she calls you, she texts you etc, etc, etc,
What do you think her definition of friends is? I can tell you right now, it is not how YOU define a buddy.
I know, I know, you're quaking in your boots thinking she wants to be the 'brotherly' type of friend aren't you? It's possible but I think it's highly unlikely because she's been saying this friends thing with you for a while and before the extraordinary improvement in your sitch.
Could it be possible that she see's you as the third type of friend in my example? The friend you hang out with, help mutually, snuggle to and have orgasms with....leaving the door open for more of an R?
You're just an honest, nice guy that just wants to have his ex back. I know that, you know that and so does everyone else. What you are missing completely, is your game plan...you need a game plan to stick to.
You can't let every little 'move' (remember it's a game and you don't have a plan) that your ex makes, you feel like it's a torpedo sinking your battleship.
How about coming up with a game plan? Something that involves backing right off (and what you are going to do with that free time) to let your ex come to you. Just consider the possibility that your ex still has a way to go to complete her MLC. She's actually doing you a favor. Diving into a full blown R with her now is like volunteering for a suicide mission.
God Bless
Suit
Could it be possible that she see's you as the third type of friend in my example? The friend you hang out with, help mutually, snuggle to and have orgasms with....leaving the door open for more of an R?
I agree this could be possible....but wouldn't this type of R mess with my mind too much? I mean if she really has no intention of ever getting back with me this can prolong my healing.
She's actually doing you a favor. Diving into a full blown R with her now is like volunteering for a suicide mission.
I agree, I could never be in a R with someone who's emotions waver all over the place.
I agree this could be possible....but wouldn't this type of R mess with my mind too much? I mean if she really has no intention of ever getting back with me this can prolong my healing.
It'll mess with your mind if you let it mess with your mind. The one thing that you have control over is yourself as they oftentimes say on this board.
Do me a favor? Please stop being so negative. Think positively all the time. There was a study done by a guy named Dr. Richard Wiseman (you can google it up).
He concluded scientifically that......wait for it......good things happen to people who think positive and bad things happen to people that think negative.
Hardly surprising isn't it?
Reading your posts, there is too much "woe is me" in them. Take some time out just to turn this around. You'll be grateful that you did, I promised you that.
God Bless
Suit
good things happen to people who think positive and bad things happen to people that think negative.
I agree 100%, I am usually a very positive person and am usually the one who tells everyone else to be positive.
This stich does have me beaten down and I am going to try and look at the positives.
She has been very distant and withdrawn, I guess thats par for the course.
I have not intiated contact, should I test the waters in another week or so or stay dark?
It's like this I think. By you pursuing her, what's it getting you? If you back right off and she comes to you, you've got the answer you've been looking for. If you back right off and she stays away, you've also got the answer you've been looking for.
If the only way you get anything from her is by you pursuing, it doesn't sound like your future with her is going to be any good does it?
I decided to back off 2 years ago. If she wants me, she knows where she can find me. Alternatively, I could have pursued and she could have continued treating me less that what I deserve.
Remember what I said to you before? You have all the power in this. It's on your terms and no one elses. You set the agenda and while you can remain hopeful, the onus is on the WAS. If they don't want to change, it really will never work out anyways.
God Bless
Suit
That is really good advice, Suit. I like the idea of taking power back in that way - the LBS can always say "no" to what isn't good enough.
I agree....that statement pretty much defines the R.
Nobody should have to settle for someone who doesn't really want them.
Funny, I have been recalling the previous 8 years of our R and I can now see how exW was really unhappy with the fact that she married young and missed out of a big part of her life.
Maybe I really did not know her that well to begin with, she had a choice....to pull closer to me or further away...she choose her single friends lifestyle.
I am beginning to realize if it wasn't me it would of been somebody else she M that would be going through this.
"...she had a choice....to pull closer to me or further away..."
ddc, that statement above hit home with me. I've replayed my own movie several times, and ultimately my ex chose to pull away. Only now in retrospect can I see the signs.
HL
Suit
You ask when the penny was going to drop for me...well it has dropped.
I had a C session today that made that penny drop.
This is the first time I had mentioned the sexual abuse that my exW had gone through and I also mentioned a comment that she made a few weeks back.
"I have changed, I am now a much more closed person. I don't share my life with everybody"
This was a major red flag for my C.
He said there is nothing you can do or say to help her.
She has closed off all intimatecy. She can never be a whole person unless she seeks help. She is seekling attention and affection from dating, the men she dates will never know who she really is because she will not expose herself.
He called her a taker, she takes whatever she can get to satisfy her urge for attention. He warned me NOT to let her get to close if she comes around again. She was in control the first time, I need to be in control next time.
She is broke, it didn't matter if she M me or someone else this was going to happen regardless.
It feels like a major weight off my shoulder. I can now move on knowing I did what any decent guy would do in a R.
He said she is a taker, a user and vindictive. But she really doesn't know she is like this.
Its funny how someimes you can't see the trees through the forest.