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Why the MLCer is so distant

Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 07:24 PM

From AMY C, guru, and former MLCer, in response to Jazz:

Quote:

Why do you think she is so distant?
She CAN'T deal with your emotions AND her own, Jazz.

Her own OVERWHELM her.
That's why she's out there, man.
That's why she's lost.


In a nutshell guys, all you guys, and there are a lot as of late, and I personally feel there IS a difference between a woman in MLC and a man in MLC...this insight comes from a woman who was in an MLC.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 07:40 PM

Those words are great, and they explain a lot, but I'm still pretty confused as to how you know if your W is having a MLC or not. Some things appear to suggest that she is, others do not. Reading over the 'signs' is misleading to me, because if some things seem to fit and others do not, how is the determination made?
Posted By: TabD

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 07:44 PM

only you will know if W is in MLC, there is no scientific and/or medicaldiagnosis on it. Believe I wish there was and maybe some little pill to help cure it or at least speed things up.

Also your W may not fit ALL of the MLC signs. Some may hit harder than other's and some she may not show at ALL.

You need to decided if it is and what route you are going to take! B/c You are the one that is going to need to work this, all of us out here on the DB BB will support you and try and help with our advice, that is what we are here for.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 07:51 PM

But if I decide she is in MLC, then that dictates how I handle things right? But if I'm wrong, won't I have been handling things incorrectly? I think that's why I'm so confused.

I appreciate your kind words, and I'm not trying to hijack this thread, it just was something that confused me. The whole idea of how one determines whether they're dealing with a spouse who is going through MLC.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 08:06 PM

Lost:

Is she confused, is she confusing? Is she wishy washy? Has her life style changed dramatically or even a little?

The biggest sign for me is the confusion.

To me a True Walk Away Spouse is: See you done, divorce ASAP no regreets and no remorse. The only thing that changes in their life is that they do not want you in it.

MLC what they want changes day to day, they want you they don't...it really is up to you to read the resources...if most of them fit...sorry to say MLC.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
MLC what they want changes day to day, they want you they don't...it really is up to you to read the resources...if most of them fit...sorry to say MLC.


Strange as it sounds, I wouldn't mind if it was MLC. At least that would be a reason as to why she is acting the way she is. For me, the hardest thing right now is having no idea where she is coming from or why she is doing what she is doing.

In any case, I will continue to read up on it, and thanks again for all the help!
Posted By: Holly06

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:05 PM

About the question of how to handle if MLC or WAW,
The beauty of this process is that you behave the same. You can only control your behaviors, and for either they are the same.

The difference is that with MLC there is a phsychological reason for the WAS behavior, (that's the good news) and it will be a much slower process (that's the bad news)to come home, if they ever do. The if they ever do is for both WAS and MLC.
With a WAS you can expect results in a somewhat timely manner. Less than 1 year. For MLC it can take 1-2 or 3to 5 years to resolve.
That is my take, and I'm sticking to it.
Posted By: always_14

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:13 PM

I had, for months on these boards, thought my H was the WAH.

Then, things got weirder, the ride got WILDER.

I found this forum and cried, I was stunned, this was IT. MLC was what was happening to my H.

What is the hallmark (in my case):
* crazy spending
* many OW - none of whom are anywhere NEAR suitable - obvious affair down and using women
* anger
* lies, lies and more lies - not just about the A to cover it up, but about your past (rewriting history), about you. Also, lying to EVERYONE, not just you out of fear to your response or the A. My H has lied to his family, mine, his friends, everyone.
* My H is, I think the only MLCer on the board who has had this very disturbing thing - he claims to hear voices, see things/images. Yep, can't explain t his one and it's pretty dang scary. Part of intense depression b/c he never had signs of schizophrenia or bipolar before (early onset diseases).
* Totally unusual behavior...think of the things they loved/cherished/valued most in life and they will totally discard those things and do opposite. My H valued financial security and he has nothing now, spent it all wrecklessly. His professional reputation came above everything, now it is in shambles. He hated staying up late, now he takes calls at 3am routinely. never took time out of work for personal things, now he is texting and calling his "friends" all day.
* Admission to intense depression, running from pain, all that good stuff that MLCers say and feel.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:14 PM

I think MLC has a better rate of return.
Posted By: always_14

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:16 PM

YIKES

I don't know Jack...after reading the nice laundry list that i just wrote, I'm not so sure in my case!
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:18 PM

LOL I meant the MLC WAS I believe comes back more often than the regular WAS.
Posted By: always_14

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/21/07 11:24 PM

Oh, I got ya the first time!

I just meant that my MLCer is a taddddd bit more insane than others. Listing it out like I did was horrifying. Ick.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 12:35 AM

I think something else that should be pointed out is an MLCer MIGHT also pretty much stop talking to whomever they were closest to. They may get a whole new circle of friends. Or they might push everyone away.

I stopped talking to my sister, who has always been my best friend. But by the time that happened, I'd pushed my husband so far away he couldn't have known that was happening. We lived apart and I'd been out of touch with him for a long time except regarding the house or kids. There was ZERO communication with him unless I HAD to and I would go to great lengths to avoid that. I didn't like the man. I know now that what I really didn't like were the things he made me see about myself. We could have none of THAT! I should also note that when I stopped talking to my sister was when things were beginning to change INSIDE of me. I was getting the first inkling that my story (my rewriting of the marital history) wasn't going to hold water much longer. The cracks were starting to appear. That's when I stopped talking to EVERYBODY.

In my case, through the initial period of deep MLC which manifested outwardly between March '02 & March '04, I'd spun such brilliant BS that everyone thought I was right to want a separation/divorce. In March '04, my husband left for the second time. I'd gotten rid of om before that but was still trying to live it up. I was crashing hard and fairly regularly. I still managed for another year to outrun reality though it did creep in occasionally. My husband stopped fighting for me when he left the second time. That was the biggest jolt. It was good to have that pressure off for awhile though. By summer 2005, I was coming apart at the seams. Completely. I'd exhausted myself with the things of the world that had enticed me, I was looking at families and missing my own. For the first time, I started to see that there had been good times. I had REALLY forgotten them. There are still times as recently as a week ago that I'll remember something and mention it to my husband and he'll look at me as if to say "did you JUST remember/realize that?" and if I were to answer, I'd say yes. MLC stole a big chunk of the good things about my marriage. It seems I get them back a little at a time. But I FORGOT. I did not see us as my husband saw us.
So you (husbands of MLC wives) really are holding something precious that no one else has; you're holding the real truth about your lives together. You're the only one that's going to understand her when she comes back. You're all that's going to be familiar and if you're not there...

Anyway after a while, I started seeing how I had contributed to the bad times. By October 2005 I was completely broken and flat on my face in repentance. Thinking of it still makes me cry.

I was a mean MLCer.
I convinced myself and everyone around me that my husband was the biggest SOB that ever walked. I BELIEVED it. I twisted every argument we'd ever had but ESPECIALLY as he fought me THEN.
I had all my family in support of my efforts.
Eventually, and it took a long time, I convinced my husband we were really through.

He stood for over 2 years, though.
Alone.
Without a message board or a clue about MLC.
He just believed in me and in us.

It seemed when in order to save his own sanity he had to let go I started waking up.

You might think that's a shame.

But the rest of my story is still being written.


I don't know why I wrote all that.
There are some new people here I guess.
Trying to determine if there's hope.
Thinking there is hope if it's MLC.
To you I'll say this: If you don't humble yourself at this time, if you let pride make you bitter and vengeful, she will never feel able to ask your forgiveness. And THAT ALONE IS PARAMOUNT to her coming out of MLC a better and stronger person.
You see, the hardest thing for her will be forgiving herself and she can never do that unless she can come back and talk with you.
Love her or not, leave her or not, you've got to make yourself a person (because you are THE person) she can come to and apologize. This is when you're going to have your feet held to fire and you'll find out if your love is really unconditional.

While she's lost, you have work of your own to do.

This isn't just her journey.

You're also here for a reason.
Posted By: princess_nic

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 12:42 AM

Amy, what a powerful post.

BTW, I'm glad things are going well with your H. Sounds like you had a nice evening with him.

N
Posted By: MissH

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 12:55 AM

Amy, thank you for sharing that wonderful post with us. There seems to be a lot of newcomers here to the MLC forum and I think this will be very beneficial for them to read as well. Thank you!
Posted By: about2bdvorced

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 01:01 AM

Thanks Amy! A lot of what you said rings true with my WAW. Hers is a combo I think...Your insight gives me hope that she'll wake the hell up soon and come back to her family. She has a dwindling circle of friends, and her family is starting to question her version of our M. Thank you!!
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 01:06 AM

It depends on your definition of "soon", a2b.
But I hope so, too.

Does your daughter stay with you in the family home?
I am unclear by your stats.

I'm asking for a reason...
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 01:10 AM

Thanks Amy. I needed to hear that.
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 01:25 AM

Thank you Amy. What between you and Happy Again, us newcomers are learning a lot about what's going on in our MLCer's heads.

Could I ask you a favor? Do you think you could post a rough timeline of what you went through? I know that everyone's MLC is different, but being that most information on MLC is focused on male MLC, getting a female perspective helps a lot.
Posted By: Goinbatty

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 02:00 AM

Amy, not only the new folks benefit, but some of us "old timers" do also. Perhaps my x will also "wake up", and I'll be better prepared in part thanks to your posts. On the other hand, perhaps she never will and that's why its important for folks to look after themselves and move along. For the new folks, yes, you can do both. Important to note, some few never do "wake up" and remain stuck.
Thanks again Amy.
Posted By: Grace_O

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 02:15 AM

Amy,

Thank you for your insight. It is so valuable.
Posted By: about2bdvorced

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 02:18 AM

Hi Amy,

DD stays w/me every other week in the family home. I'm a LBS...
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:06 AM

Originally Posted By: about2bdvorced
Hi Amy,

DD stays w/me every other week in the family home. I'm a LBS...


She basically moved out with her mother.
I think that's the most self-centered thing a mother can do.
Uproot the child.
It's not the same to "go home" every other week.

WAW's can do this and DO do this.
But if you have other "signs" that it's MLC for your wife, I'd say this is one more.

If I can let my inner redneck out for just a sec, to me, her head "just ain't right".

Only you'll know for sure.

Look to her past (specifically, her childhood) for more clues.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty
Amy, not only the new folks benefit, but some of us "old timers" do also. Perhaps my x will also "wake up", and I'll be better prepared in part thanks to your posts. On the other hand, perhaps she never will and that's why its important for folks to look after themselves and move along. For the new folks, yes, you can do both. Important to note, some few never do "wake up" and remain stuck.
Thanks again Amy.


I am of the opinion that the reason for that is pride.
Especially in men.

The HARDEST thing for me was turning around and saying I'd been wrong. I had to also go to my mother, my sister, my aunt and worst of all, my Grandma, and tell them, try to make them understand, that I did not see things for what they truly were and that I bore a good sized chunk of the blame for the state of my marriage. See, if your spouse is an unchanging ass and you have an affair, you've justified yourself. I did. But if you find out your perception was flat-out WRONG, you just become an adulterer. It was hard to realize that's all I was. Lost though I may have been, I'd prayed for God to show me myself as HE saw me and THAT is just ONE thing He showed me about myself. Each visit, each phone call looming before me back then was another opportunity for me to just run. I came so close...
Facing my husband was the worst.
It was a long process.
That "talk" was actually more a series of talks.
But I could have cut and run at any time and I sure as hell wanted to MANY times. But when you find yourself face down in the carpet night after night for 2 weeks straight and all you can do is cry and say "help me" because you can ACTUALLY feel the pain you've caused the one who loved you the most in the world, you'll do whatever He requires and He required that I go to my husband. He required that I go to my family and set things right.

I think all MLCers wake up.

I just don't think they all "own up".

It is the single most difficult task I have ever undertaken in my life.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:43 AM

Amy, How do I leave the door open for my W to return but not actually say anything to her about it?
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:44 AM

Thank you for all the information btw. It is very helpful. There is so little good information about women in MLC out there.
Posted By: Goinbatty

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 04:04 AM

Amy, again many thanks.
From what I understand of my x, many of the friends and family have had "the talk" with her. As you have stated, they slowly peel away and want nothing more to do with a MLCer, because the rewrites don't add up, the fiction is seen for what it is - pure fiction.
Perhaps then comes reality - nobody is buying the story (including new "friends") and the MLCer finds themselves finally alone?
Of interest, in the last few months, that topic of "pride" has made its way into conversation with former friends (they want nothing to do with her) of the x. They've brought it up, not me. They firmley believe it's a "sticking point" - MLCer cannot admit (openly) they made a mistake, rather would be miserable than to "own up". Does that strike a cord with you?
I've learned of these things slowly over the last year from my room mate. She was my former x's best friend for over a decade and she brought this topic up a few weeks ago (amongst other friends)((Room mate is just that - nothing more going on between us)). Room mate has had no contact with my x in over a year and a half. Me, three years.
I observed x from a few feet away the other morning, me in car stuck at traffic light, x walking in crosswalk. Being polite as I can in describing her appearance - "bag lady", only thing missing was "pushing a shopping cart" with her belongings in it.
Did it get that bad? Did it "feel" that bad?
It really hurt to see her that way.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 04:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Imageer
Amy, How do I leave the door open for my W to return but not actually say anything to her about it?



You decide to.

You must know, though, if you decide that come hell or high water, you are going to stand for your marriage, rest assured that making that decision will be the last simple thing you do.
Hell and high water will both come.
They'll come often and sometimes they'll even come together before you have time to take a deep breath.

As long as you know that and still decide to stand, it is possible to do it quietly, effectively and with grace.
It will take more than you know you have within yourself.
You will have to dig deep and eat a lot of crow.

There is plenty of room here at the table.

;\)

Make a list.
Write down your reasons to stand.
You know the basic ones; kids, vows before God, etc....
Now look closer at the very heart of your relationship.
There you will find the reasons that will enable you to endure.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 04:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty
Amy, again many thanks.
From what I understand of my x, many of the friends and family have had "the talk" with her. As you have stated, they slowly peel away and want nothing more to do with a MLCer, because the rewrites don't add up, the fiction is seen for what it is - pure fiction.
Perhaps then comes reality - nobody is buying the story (including new "friends") and the MLCer finds themselves finally alone?
Of interest, in the last few months, that topic of "pride" has made its way into conversation with former friends (they want nothing to do with her) of the x. They've brought it up, not me. They firmley believe it's a "sticking point" - MLCer cannot admit (openly) they made a mistake, rather would be miserable than to "own up". Does that strike a cord with you?
I've learned of these things slowly over the last year from my room mate. She was my former x's best friend for over a decade and she brought this topic up a few weeks ago (amongst other friends)((Room mate is just that - nothing more going on between us)). Room mate has had no contact with my x in over a year and a half. Me, three years.
I observed x from a few feet away the other morning, me in car stuck at traffic light, x walking in crosswalk. Being polite as I can in describing her appearance - "bag lady", only thing missing was "pushing a shopping cart" with her belongings in it.
Did it get that bad? Did it "feel" that bad?
It really hurt to see her that way.


I'm just staring at your words and I'm stunned.
That is so sad...

Would you go to her?
Posted By: EverHopeful

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty
Amy, not only the new folks benefit, but some of us "old timers" do also. Perhaps my x will also "wake up", and I'll be better prepared in part thanks to your posts. On the other hand, perhaps she never will and that's why its important for folks to look after themselves and move along. For the new folks, yes, you can do both. Important to note, some few never do "wake up" and remain stuck.
Thanks again Amy.


GB,
If I might chime in here, having spent some time in MLC myself and now witnessing my H going through, I think that I can safely agree with Amy.

PRIDE is a huge factor, it almost goes against human nature not just to admit that you are wrong but to come back AND ask for forgiveness. The thought is overwhelming. Add to it an MLCer's in bred insecurities and lack of direction and well, you got a big pot of mess brewing. It is much easier to run and hide with someone new than to face your demons, lies, and move on. I think that they also suffer from a tremendous amount of guilt, almost paralyzingly so. They really are lost and when the fog lifts, the guilt is just too much. So much time has passed that nothing is really as they can try to remember it to be.

I guess with regard to your W specifically, if she is amongst those that does wake up and you are still standing she will be lucky.
Posted By: EverHopeful

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Goinbatty
Amy, again many thanks.
From what I understand of my x, many of the friends and family have had "the talk" with her. As you have stated, they slowly peel away and want nothing more to do with a MLCer, because the rewrites don't add up, the fiction is seen for what it is - pure fiction.
Perhaps then comes reality - nobody is buying the story (including new "friends") and the MLCer finds themselves finally alone?
Of interest, in the last few months, that topic of "pride" has made its way into conversation with former friends (they want nothing to do with her) of the x. They've brought it up, not me. They firmley believe it's a "sticking point" - MLCer cannot admit (openly) they made a mistake, rather would be miserable than to "own up". Does that strike a cord with you?
I've learned of these things slowly over the last year from my room mate. She was my former x's best friend for over a decade and she brought this topic up a few weeks ago (amongst other friends)((Room mate is just that - nothing more going on between us)). Room mate has had no contact with my x in over a year and a half. Me, three years.
I observed x from a few feet away the other morning, me in car stuck at traffic light, x walking in crosswalk. Being polite as I can in describing her appearance - "bag lady", only thing missing was "pushing a shopping cart" with her belongings in it.
Did it get that bad? Did it "feel" that bad?
It really hurt to see her that way.


GB-
Wow. Big WOW. This is heartbreakingly sad. I am so sorry.

As for me being in MLC was sort of like marbles rolling around in my head and maybe even my heart. It was a dull pain, I cried alot so I justfied my behavior by being mean and using other people's niceness to me as their weakness and took advantage. I often thought that running away was the answer. If only I could get away from all of these nagging people who had made my life so miserable all of this time. CRAZY.

It did not feel "Bag Ladyish" to me but felt heavy. That is the only way to describe it. HEAVY. You are not in your right mind at all and you feel justified. I know one thing for sure. She will have to come to you when she feels that it is safe to do so. Not to give false hope but if she is looking that bad/lost ... she needs a friend. Maybe you could just reach out as a friend. Nothing heavy, just a touching base sort of thing so that she can see that she can feel safe when she is ready.
Just my thoughts, wish you well.

Oh, before I forget... Not uncommon for friends and family to sort of pull back from the MLCer. I recently spoke with MIL and SIL both of whom state that H is in a place where no one can go and that he will have to find his way out. When this all started to go down his older brother went to see H everyday. His sister called often and sent emails frequently, came in at least twice from Florida. His best friend called often. No one comes near it now.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:17 PM

To Amy,

All I can say is wow. Your posts are very powerful reading. I do not know whether my W is in MLC (she just turned 31 and I don't know how much of a determinant age is).

She has rewritten our history, to be sure, BUT she works very hard to make sure I am not made out to be a bad person when she tells others of our separation/impending D. So, it seems to be a contradiction from what I understand those in MLC do.

Nonetheless, reading your posts are very inspriring, so thanks for that.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:30 PM

This is a great thread. Thank you all. I am learning many valuable things.

Amy, I am still not clear on how you convey to your spouse that they can come home without actually telling them. I am standing for my M. I consider my W to be sick and I would never leave her while she was sick. But this whole issue of price detering that perosn from coming abck scares me. I want her to feel that she can come back whenever she is ready, but I think telling her outright is not a good idea.
Posted By: Rollercoasterider

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:33 PM

Lost,

My take on age and MLC...well there are life transitons. The MidLC comes at about 35-45. But there is a Quarter in the early-mid 20s, and an age 30 transition is rather common.

It is my feeling that at these transitions there are greater opportunities for resolving former issues--such as those from childhood. Those who do not resolve them will carry them to the next transition...and as things continue unresolved the crises will become worse.

Transitions need not be Crises, but those who run from the growth opportunity have crises.

As for your wife not bad-mouthing or blaming...not all do. Sweetheart had a few days of Monster, and rarely bad-mouthed me. The OW told me he wasn't negative about me--and that was during his early Replay.

HUGS,
RCR
Posted By: lawless

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Lost_for_now
To Amy,

All I can say is wow. Your posts are very powerful reading. I do not know whether my W is in MLC (she just turned 31 and I don't know how much of a determinant age is).

She has rewritten our history, to be sure, BUT she works very hard to make sure I am not made out to be a bad person when she tells others of our separation/impending D. So, it seems to be a contradiction from what I understand those in MLC do.

Nonetheless, reading your posts are very inspriring, so thanks for that.


Same as in my sitch, my W is definatly MLC though, all other signs are there especially the confusion. Funny though is the fact that since I have detached she seems to be extra nice to me, must be her confusion.


Amyc,

I got ALOT out of what you have written and now thanks to you have a much better understanding of what she is going through emotionally.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:37 PM

RCR,

Very interesting reading, thank you! I think with my W, she went through a transition at 30 centering on children. I think she really wants them, and at the time I did not. She saw all of her friends getting pregnant/having children and I think it affected her more than I know.

Also, interesting that you talked about not all WAS's bad-mouthing the LBS. Thank you, you have given me things to think about for sure!
Posted By: Rollercoasterider

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:38 PM

You're correct, telling her outright is not a good idea.

You show her by being consistent. Be forgiving. BE her safe place--so no judging. If she files--contesting can show you do not want it.

Validate her feelings...ex. she feels she needs a divorce or it is the only way

...validate, tell her you realize that and accept her feelings, and yet you disagree. It is okay to disagree...feelings are not right or wrong, so validate and help her to feel safe.

The tough part is to be soft and forgive--the safe place while also remaining firm when appropriate...no enabling, she will push your buttons to test your new strength and lack of arguing and judging. Understand that she is testing--often deliberately. That is why consistency is so important...do not fear the anger...mantiaing peace and forgiveness.

HUGS,
RCR
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: lawless
[quote=Lost_for_now]
Funny though is the fact that since I have detached she seems to be extra nice to me, must be her confusion.


That's interesting that you say that, it seems to mirror my sitch as well. The more I find that I am able to detach the more she tries to contact me. And when I do not respond, she will get angry.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:47 PM

Lost, I find the exact same thing.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:47 PM

RCR, Thank you.

Would you mind defining "Enabling" as it applies here?

Thanks Again.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 03:54 PM

So odd how much the behavior is the same across vastly different people.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 04:48 PM

Wow,

Thank you Amy. I just wanted to steal your post from Seperated, as there are alot of new 'guys' here. While Happy is posting, I really do believe that there is a huge difference in male MLC and female MLC, not to sound too sterotypical but the simple difference in perceptions from emotion and logic.

I am indebted to you for posting here and letting these guys, us poor SOB's, the walking wounded, get that glimpse, thank you.

Simon can you grab anything for the Resources from Amy's posting.

Thank you Amy.

Jack
Posted By: bookpusher

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 05:03 PM

Thank you Amy! When I looked at your comments about NC, I called my SIL in and said there is H! Finally, someone who kind of resembles him. I could kiss you!!!

Do you think if you H had pushed for a D it would have been better or worse, than just leaving you alone?
Posted By: almosthopeful

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 05:28 PM

Thank you very much, Amy, and Ever, for sharing your experiences.

This struck me in particular:
Originally Posted By: AmyC
To you I'll say this: If you don't humble yourself at this time, if you let pride make you bitter and vengeful, she will never feel able to ask your forgiveness. And THAT ALONE IS PARAMOUNT to her coming out of MLC a better and stronger person.
You see, the hardest thing for her will be forgiving herself and she can never do that unless she can come back and talk with you.
Love her or not, leave her or not, you've got to make yourself a person (because you are THE person) she can come to and apologize. This is when you're going to have your feet held to fire and you'll find out if your love is really unconditional.

While she's lost, you have work of your own to do.

This isn't just her journey.

You're also here for a reason.

To be totally honest, today, I'm not sure if I'm up for this. I believe I have changed for the better during these 22 months. According to all accounts, I have. But I can see and feel clearly what an enormous effort it will take from here on to become and remain that humble, accepting, forgiving person. Today, I just don't know. But I thank you Amy for spelling it out, in no uncertain terms. I'm certain you are right.

Hugs.
AH
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 06:09 PM

Originally Posted By: bookpusher
Thank you Amy! When I looked at your comments about NC, I called my SIL in and said there is H! Finally, someone who kind of resembles him. I could kiss you!!!

Do you think if you H had pushed for a D it would have been better or worse, than just leaving you alone?


Whenever he pushed at all he had a hellcat on his hands.
Lay low.
You'll have less scars.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 06:16 PM

Chicks dig scars. : )
Posted By: almosthopeful

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
Chicks dig scars. : )


LOL. Keep telling yourself that!
Posted By: always_14

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 06:27 PM

AmyC and Ever.

Thank you SO MUCH for your posts and efforts. It's certainly not easy coming here and sharing your experiences...a time in life I'm sure you would many times rather keep in the past....and for sharing while the both of you are now on the same side of the fence as us.

Though the femalve vs male MLC has differences, I can also see MANY similartiies. Of course, this goes without saying.

So many hurdles, and so much of it not in our hands.

Keep on living, is the way to go for now.

You're right about laying low....it's been the best tactic for me, too.

The answers always come from within, for both the MLCer and the LBS.

So, I have felt most comfortable letting H come to his own realizations, answers or living in a fog.

Trust in God. Trust that God will give you what you need to make it through, anything.
Posted By: happy_again

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 07:46 PM

i think women in mlc are way worse then the men.women become so damned emotional and bitchy. men are just wierd.
Posted By: Rollercoasterider

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 07:51 PM

Maybe...or could it be that Males in MLC have received estrogen shots and thus act like emotional and bitchy woman? ;\)
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 07:55 PM

I think a big difference between women and men in this has to do with the kids.
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 09:49 PM

Actually, my W hasn't been emotional or bitchy. Which is why it took so for me to find out something really bad was afoot.

Of course, I had an easy diagnosis for MLC when my wife said, "I don't know! Maybe I'm having a Mid-life Crisis!" during her bombing run.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 09:51 PM

Initially, I said I didn't see it comeing, but thinking back, I can see a lot of changes in her behaviour over the last couple of years.
Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 09:55 PM

With the exception of the truely unexpected, i.e. comet from the sky.

All action have precedents, and portents leading up to them. The trick to actually see them or learn to see them and predict or deflect. However a popualr theory is MLC is mostly unavoidable, perhaps the ability to manage the severity of it however, isn't.
Posted By: always_14

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 10:36 PM

Can't say if either Male or Female MLC is worst. I think they're both bad.

And, to say that the men "just act weird" is a severe understatement!!!!

I also think, to some extent, this was going to happen to them anyway. What we do not see here, are people who go through MLC who are NOT M.

My brother went through a QLC, nearly destroyed his career in the process. Dropped out of life and aimless. Full of anger at himself and others.

Another friend went throgh the same thing, not M at the time, and she also took her unhappiness out on her life and jobs. She developed a very wreckless lifestyle in a high profile job...and eventually hit the wall. She is the FIRST person who introduced me to the concept of MLC as H's problem. She told me that this would have happened no matter what, was not me, and to stay away VERY far away.
Posted By: happy_again

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/22/07 11:54 PM

but in all fairness who really ever knew what mlc was before it happened to us or our spouses. how do you think we couls have been more prepared to handle this / i think women are worse because many of them walk away from their kids
Posted By: lawless

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 03:26 AM

HA,

I agree they could be worse, mine was a living hell for the 2 or 3 years before the bomb/OM. I didn't understand what was going on and was away from home working alot so I didn't give it too much attention. She had some huge anger, breaking stuff and getting physical with me as well as she could. she is 5 foot nothing so it made me laugh more than anything.

Before the anger was depression, this was 3 years or more ago, she got meds for it and got level but still made comments from time to time about feeling as low as a piece of dog sh*t.

I can see she got in deep MLC about 8 months ago, suddenly out with new D friends, sometimes all night. Believe it or not I encouraged this, I told her "nice to see you have finally GAL"

Well that sure bit me in the ass, 5 months ago I caught her with OM.........she ran and is now living with him.

She has abandon her kids, given me sole custody in the LS. All I have heard from her for years is that I am a sh*tty father, all of a sudden I am great father.

So far so worse.............

But,

She does not spew now that she is gone, she comes around to see the kids a couple of times a week and will do housework while she is here and will be upset if I won't let her. She is alot nicer than she was 3 years ago, but she will run fast if she feels comfortable here at home.

The change in her came when I decided to just settle for friendship, I am becoming her friend I think, she will confide small things to me and I quit hiding what is going on with me, she is aware of what I am doing and it seems to have set her at ease.


Better or worse, the jury is out on this one for me.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 04:26 AM

Quote:
i think women are worse because many of them walk away from their kids


My kids stayed with me in the house and I threw my husband out.
Twice.

And for the record, I wasn't overly emotional or bitchy, although there were certainly times...
My husband said it best when he looked at me one day from across the kitchen and said "You're as cold as ice".

To this day, I remember that moment.

I'd become the tinman.
Posted By: justbestfriends

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 09:48 AM

Just come back from time away at an interview and have read this and found it really interesting and helpful. Thank you for posting, ladies.

Is it possible to have a MLCer who is also fixed on making the changes e.g. selling the house quickly? She doesn't seem to be showing me much confusion in that respect at the moment though before I asked her to leave she was very much cake eating, wanting me as her main emotional support but OM for 'fun'. She didn't really want to go and if I could have stood it, I think she'd still be at home now. She really didn't want to make that decision herself.
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 12:25 PM

Right now my W is the same way. In her view, she's being responsible by owning up to the financial part of the sitch. She wants to fix the house to sell it, since I can't afford it on my own. She also doesn't want anything from the house (furniture, computer, etc.) and wants to get D as soon as possible.

If it wasn't for the confusion and the fact that she's following the stages of MLC like a textbook, I'd say she was WAW.

Now, I'm handling all of this by doing nothing. She wants to work on the house, it will only be when she's available. She wants to sell it and get a D, I'm letting her do all the work, I'm not calling a realtor or a lawyer at all.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 01:08 PM

My W is wanting to sell the house too. She keeps talking about getting it fixed up and starting to pack her things. I'm my case I fell that there is a D friend in the backround encouraging her. There might be another single friend too. Part of me wants to hold on to the house in hopes that the friend fades away in hopes that it starts to bring her around. Part of me wants to let her sell the house so that she can go out on her own and find out what it is going to be like.

Matt, How is your W handling the fact that you are doing nothing to help her? I've been debating this position too. Although, I'm also tryingto be her friend and not helping her with the house would probably hurt that. What are some other opinions of this?
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 01:27 PM

So far, I don't think she's really noticed. \:\)

She has a bunch of "friends" as well holding her hand that this is the way to go. I realized keeping the house in my sitch was just a way for me to not let go of her, since I wanted it for when she woke up. To let go of her completely, I have to wreck all the dreams we've been working towards for 8 years and move back to apartment life.
Posted By: Imageer

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 01:29 PM

My W is already asking me to go out and buy containers to pack the kids toys in.
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 01:53 PM

Matt,

My W did exactly the same things. She has told me many times that she wants to put the house on the market, that we need to fix some things in it before we do. She has even had realtors over to give us an estimate on how much we should be asking for it. Also told me that she doesn't want a battle, that I can have anything out of the house that I want. That was months ago, and the house is still not on the market, nor has she been in contact with a lawyer.

I think you're handling it in exactly the right way. Do nothing. Let her handle everything, since after all it isn't you that wants any of this in the first place!
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 06:24 PM

Check out my latest post on my story.

She was talking about contacting the realtor that helped us buy the house to sell it but, again, I'm leaving that to her totally.
Posted By: AmyC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 06:58 PM

Good strategy.

I remember once my husband told me I was crazy if I thought for a second he'd lift one finger to get that house ready to sell.
Posted By: Going Solo

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 03/23/07 07:19 PM

I wonder if there could be some way to get you up to Pennsylvania to "accidentally" meet my wife...

*sigh*

Not that it'd probably work, but I can still dream, can't I?
Posted By: SunnyBurst

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 09/27/12 06:44 PM

It's amazing all these symptoms are also Bi-Polar symptoms.
Posted By: LIO

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 09/30/12 07:21 PM

I agree Sunny, I waiver between my H being undiagnosed bipolar and MLC - and I guess I won't know if neither is ever resolved.

Nonetheless, reading this old thread I noted some points:
'this would've gone on with or without you'
and
'stay far far away'

helpful for someone like me who was always trying to 'fix' things. Just let it play out.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/21/16 06:30 AM

Dear AmyC, MLCer have history rewrite is because they need justification of what they're doing during their crisis?? When did you stop doing that (history rewrite) ? Thank you
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/21/16 06:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Babe
Dear AmyC, MLCer have history rewrite is because they need justification of what they're doing during their crisis?? When did you stop doing that (history rewrite) ? Thank you

First of all AmyC no longer posts here, however she is doing well from what I understand from some other people.

I think all people rewrite history, MLC'ers and LBS's together.
If you went through childbirth, do you remember every single PAIN that you felt, or does the brain protect us and make those pains fade so the joy of bringing a child into the world supercedes the PAIN.
So too I would say that we all re-write history to protect ourselves and the way we feel.
Plus when you are in a fog you may see things differently than others see them around you.

I think it is best to focus on ourselves and not what the MLC'er feels and thinks.
Posted By: job

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/21/16 08:47 AM

I agree w/Cadet's posting. However, I do want to point out that you can't put a timeline on a person in crisis. Why? Because each person is unique, i.e., personality, childhood issues, etc. They will move through their crisis on their own timeline, which is always slower than a turtle in a race with the hare.

When a person is in crisis, they do not look at their situation the same way that we do. Yes, the marriage was a good one until the crisis hits, but in their minds, looking back, they tend to remember and select things that happened between the MLCer and LBS and continue to bring them up over and over again. Their memories are faulty. They look at the glass as half full or completely empty.

The LBS tends to think about things many, many months after the bomb drop and yes, we can see things far more clearly and we begin to think of the many flaws of our spouses and how they affected the relationship...this too can be considered rewriting history.

In the beginning we all try to find answers to the lock to open the door of the MLCer has shut tightly against us, but you can't reason w/them because they are on an emotional journey and they can be very irrational at times and will not listen to us. So, the best thing to do is sit quietly and allow the answers to come. You can't rush the process, you can't fix them because you didn't break them, therefor you need to focus on you.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/21/16 08:15 PM

Cadet and Job,

Thank you for your advise, I understand your point, we did not break them, we can not fix them; I appreciate your kindness and advise !!
Husband accused me as the one who destroyed his life, although I know it is not true, felt badly after months. (I'm not strong enough to not listen to what he says)
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/21/16 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Babe
(I'm not strong enough to not listen to what he says)

You can listen just dont believe any of it.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/22/16 02:01 AM

[color:#003333][/color]Cadet : I could listen just don't believe any of it !!!

thank you and thank you !!
Babe
Posted By: dcop

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/25/16 11:41 PM

I think there is value in knowing when things happen. Also yes everyone rewrites history a little but a MLC rewrites history hard, like it’s not even possible to be true, and not only that they rewrite it on a daily basis. A very simply example my wife says I have not loved you for like 9 years one day, then says 3 years another day when she is crying in my arms and sometimes says I have always loved you just not the way I used to lol. The main thing people are trying to figure out is where they sit in the MLC. It gives us hope to know that maybe something is progressing. Most people don't realize the MLC is happening till you are right in the thick of it. But just as another poster pointed out there is a multi-year depression with lots of signs.

I also want to point out this is a great thread but very little has been discussed in many cases about the history, specifically childhood and parental history of the MLC. I know in my case my wife has an INCREDIBLE resemblance to her mother’s MLC. Ironic given she won't accept that even though she clearly knows these facts about her upbringing.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/26/16 01:00 AM

Hi dcop, I agree with you, we are not obsessed with the stages of midlife crisis, but to know they are progressing be a good thing, I also agree with Job, Cadet, Heartsblessing that left behind spouse needs to focus more on ourselves, we have a journey to walk.

I learned from some other site, that people who's in his fog of midlife crisis is as selfish as selfish can be, since he/she never have the love before when he/she was raising and growing. All he/she thinks are me me me...

Job, except the runaway behavior(distant) during midlife crisis, is it true that they been really selfish ?
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/26/16 05:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Babe
Job, except the runaway behavior(distant) during midlife crisis, is it true that they been really selfish ?

Not Job but I am sure she will pop in and offer her insight too.
Yes it is my experience that most MLC'ers are very selfish.
And most LBS's are codependent conflict avoiding enablers.
So it really was a marriage where the two people fit together perfectly.
Until that doesn't work anymore.
Then explosion bomb drop and MLC.

As far as the stages go I warn you no one studied these more than myself.
I kept looking for any sign that would explain all of this and where she was at.

I was convinced my wife had gone through every stage and could point at each sign.
That FAILED miserably.
Your spouse is likely in REPLAY and any change in this will not be known until quite a bit in the future when you look in the rear view mirror and see where you have been.
For now - Let GO - Live your life "as if" and don't focus on the MLC'er because a watched pot NEVER boils.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/26/16 07:01 AM

Cadet, thank you for reply, I stopped texting husband and no talk of relationship two weeks ago. I'm not going to have dinner with them at New Year's Eve. I don't think it's a good idea for me to show though its the tradition to do so.

I watched Michelle's video of midlife crisis, I understand it does no good to point to the man/woman when they are in their crisis.

So I just be quiet and let him find the way out ?
Oh I do have a question - what's OW withdrawal ?

Thank you !
Posted By: job

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 01/26/16 07:09 AM

Babe,
Do you have a thread here in the MLC Forum? If not, please start one. It's easier for others to follow your situation if you have your own thread. That way we can answer your questions and you can go back and refer to them often.

To answer your questions yes, sit quietly and leave him alone to figure things out. You can't help him.

OW withdrawal is when the OW is no longer in the picture. They exhibit many signs just as a drug addict, gambler, sex addict, alcoholic exhibit when they don't get their fix.

You will have more responses and different views if you start your own thread here in the MLC Forum.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 02/23/19 02:39 PM

Bumping this up (for this helped me understand husband's crisis)
Posted By: SoloFlex

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 05/11/19 09:15 PM

OMG, this is the BEST thread I've read here.......

Although many of the posters aren't here anymore, those that are = THANK YOU
Posted By: DS9

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 10/18/19 10:04 AM

Hi all,

Thanks to a recent post by DnJ, I looked into ‘compartmentalisation’. This really seems a good fit too for why they are so distant. Looking at the way my XW treated me, I feel like I had been compartmentalised. Before encountering this word, I had often felt my XW had a ‘circle’, that if you were in, you were all good, but if you fell outside, you were in a bad place with her, and there forever.

‘Compartmentalisation’ - look into it.
Posted By: PLC

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 12/13/19 05:14 PM

I think I am compartmentalized in a box, under a bunch of other boxes. I am in the attic that when you move, it has been pushed so far under an eave you miss it!
Posted By: HesAble

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 12/18/19 03:07 AM

I am struggling with figuring out whether my H is in a MLC or not. You all talk a lot about the MLCer making the LBS feel like she is the root of his unhappiness. My H says he wants to be free to find happiness but claims it is not my fault. I am not sure if he is bad mouthing me to family and friends though. This makes me think it may not be MLC but here are some of his MLC-like characteristics:

1. Mid 40s
2. Lost 50+ pounds quickly and is obsessed with working out daily at home and in gym
3. New wardrobe, tries to follow trends when he cared nothing about trends before and in fact used to dress very conservatively
4. Obsessed with concealing gray hair, whitening teeth
5. Very self conscious about his looks in general
6. Spending money excessively, primarily for his small business, but also on eating out, etc.
7. Parties and drinks a lot when he did not do this before
8. Stays out until morning several days a week and does not tell anyone where he is (likely a physical affair - has had an affair before about 6 years ago and perhaps others I did not know about)
9. Mother passed away this year
10. Moved to the basement and treats it like an apt
11. Distances himself from me, sometimes does not want to be in same room even and tries to text only. No physical touch at all since BD except one or two distant hugs on the first couple days
12. Father had a bad midlife crisis, divorced his mother and has married/divorced multiple times
13. Now wants to travel as much as possible for work but did not want to when we were happier in our M
Posted By: OwnIt

Re: Why the MLCer is so distant - 12/18/19 03:16 AM

You should start your own thread in the section down below.

Generally helps to give how long married, what happened in 18-24 month period before, etc.
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