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Posted By: Vince H Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/10/14 09:13 PM
Well the other night I told the wife rather than having to get a divorce and go through a custody battle for our daughter lets give counseling a try. Worst mistake ever, or rather I picked a bad one. This lady I don't even remember how I found her but by the end of the night she basically told my wife that her EA was justified and that even though he is 22 and she is 35 she sees no reason why it can't work out. It took every last bit of restraint I had not to blow up on this woman. I could barely contain myself. Luckily she knew I was upset and did not charge me for the session. Unbelievable though. Be careful which counselors you choose and read their reviews.

I talked to another one just yesterday who had good reviews and he flat out told me that he won't see couples where their is an ongoing affair. I told him that he was a smart man. I mean how in the hell are you able to get counseling and start working on your marriage if your spouse is unwilling to end their affair. It's impossible.
Posted By: Cristy Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/14/14 09:31 PM
Vince H-
I strongly urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting coach as soon as possible. There is much that can be done. Call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004 Cristy

Here is a link from Michele regarding couples therapy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXTMw85jpks&feature=youtu.be
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/14/14 09:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Vince H
Well the other night I told the wife rather than having to get a divorce and go through a custody battle for our daughter lets give counseling a try. Worst mistake ever, or rather I picked a bad one. This lady I don't even remember how I found her but by the end of the night she basically told my wife that her EA was justified and that even though he is 22 and she is 35 she sees no reason why it can't work out. It took every last bit of restraint I had not to blow up on this woman. I could barely contain myself. Luckily she knew I was upset and did not charge me for the session. Unbelievable though. Be careful which counselors you choose and read their reviews.

I talked to another one just yesterday who had good reviews and he flat out told me that he won't see couples where their is an ongoing affair. I told him that he was a smart man. I mean how in the hell are you able to get counseling and start working on your marriage if your spouse is unwilling to end their affair. It's impossible.



I don't want to quibble with you b/c your main point (lousy marriage counselors) is a valid one. There are some really lousy counselors out there, who ought to be called "divorce counsellors" instead of marriage counselors.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that SOME couples do work on their marriages while an OP exists (and then sometimes, the OP goes away.)

Not all partners can end the A before they see change in their spouses...they fear that the spouse will simply revert back to their old ways if they give up the OPs.
And in some cases the LBS would not have changed except for the OP becoming involved in their marriage. Like for instance, as an example, MAYBE you would not work on yourself at all, until you heard of OM...

Just a thought. I hope you can find a REAL marriage counsellor asap. Ask them if they are "solution based" and that way you won't spend all your time rehashing the past...

Our MC said if we did not see any changes in our own behaviors and interactions within 5-6 sessions, he was not the MC for us.

I think that's a decent guideline and I'd add this to it---if you don't get ANY good feedback or useful constructive comments within the first 2 sessions, I'd seek out another counselor. And btw, I can vouch for the DB coaches here. I had Vernetta and she was a Godsend for me/us.

She was Very specific w/detailed advice that was useful for me.

Just make sure you tell them the WHOLE story and answer their questions in full. If there are conflicts between what you hear on this board and what your dB coach says, go with the coach. But make sure you are telling the same things to both entities. Make sense?

Good luck!



Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 04:25 AM
Wow. You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what happened. I only started to change when I found out about the OP. But now she says it's too late and is in love with the OP. She's even planning on getting an apartment together with him.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 05:07 PM
Ok so this is one of the things I wanted to talk about but didn't get approved on the newcomers forum. One of the goals in db-ing is to make yourself the better choice. But my question is this, the guy who my wife is having her affair with is not only 22 years old but is a model and has a body that is damn near perfect, she wasn't sexually attracted to me anymore because I let my body go, but now that she's tasted forbidden pleasure and has enjoyed being with this younger man sexually how or why would she ever come back to me? Even if I get back down to my marriage weight I will never have a body like this guy. In that case how can I be the better man, sexually? Or even if she moves back with me will she always be longing for him?
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 05:11 PM
Also I have tried just about everything and nothing has worked so far. I followed these steps.


Edited due to the fact that the content was copied and posted illegally from another source.
Due to copyright laws, you may not post any excerpts from other books, articles, etc.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 05:17 PM
I have told many in her family and they have tried to talk to her but she just pushes them away. They tell me it's no use that she's deaf and blind.

I have thought about posting a message on the OP's facebook page asking him how he feels about destroying my marriage and my child's future and to publicly out him to all his friends and family. And then to ask him respectfully one last time to stop and let me try to reconcile my marriage and give my daughter the future she deserves. What do you think about this?
Posted By: Drew Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 07:39 PM
Also, stick to one thread please. Makes it easier to follow.
Posted By: Drew Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 07:43 PM
And stop talking to her family about it.

Have you read DB or DR?
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/15/14 10:33 PM
Yes. I know. I broke rule 6. In fact I've broken many rules but I am trying to follow them now.

Many people have advised me to file for divorce and custody, even her own family. But I am afraid to. Will that ruin any chance we may have of reconciling the marriage? I read on here somewhere that if you have any hopes of reconciling the marriage to never ever mention the D word. And somebody's response to that was, well you don't have to mention it, you just do it. What is your guys' advice?
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/16/14 03:00 PM
Really need some advice her before filing for custody and divorce.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/16/14 07:11 PM
I will re post this again. C'mon guys I need some help here.

Many people have advised me to file for divorce and custody, even her own family. But I am afraid to. Will that ruin any chance we may have of reconciling the marriage? I read on here somewhere that if you have any hopes of reconciling the marriage to never ever mention the D word. And somebody's response to that was, well you don't have to mention it, you just do it. What is your guys' advice?
Posted By: Drew Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/16/14 10:16 PM
When did you decide to file for custody and divorce?

Did I miss something?

And you never answered my question - have you read the books?
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/16/14 10:20 PM
Haven't read the books yet. But I'll make it a point to do that tonight.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/16/14 11:10 PM
You didn't answer the question of whether or not you read the books. You're all over the place on these boards, so we can't tell what you're talking about.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/17/14 06:32 PM
Okay. I just put them on hold and am going to rent both books at the library today. A few people have also told me that I should read MMSLP - The Married Man Sex Life Primer. Would that also be good?

And for God sakes please somebody help me. Should file for D and C and put my foot down and show her I mean business? Will this raise my sex appeal to her? Or will it ruin my chances for R?
Posted By: MrBond Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/17/14 08:35 PM
"A few people have also told me that I should read MMSLP - The Married Man Sex Life Primer. Would that also be good?"

No. Alot of that is just BS from a self-proclaimed expert who has never had any problems in his M according to him.

"And for God sakes please somebody help me. Should file for D and C and put my foot down and show her I mean business? Will this raise my sex appeal to her? Or will it ruin my chances for R?"

First off, you shouldn't keep "demanding" people help you. A little humility will help go a long way.

Next, if you don't want a D, then don't file. All you're doing is stomping your feet like a child. Do you think that's attractive or makes your W want to come back to you? Start getting your head in order and write down what things about the M were issues for her. Detail them here. Explain what your role might have been. Be honest.
Posted By: Drew Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/17/14 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Vince H
And for God sakes please somebody help me. Should file for D and C and put my foot down and show her I mean business? Will this raise my sex appeal to her? Or will it ruin my chances for R?

Read the books.

DB101: Tactics to "win her back" rarely work.

Work on yourself.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/17/14 08:38 PM
I read the MMSLP and while some of it is good, I'm pretty sure he's no expert. It's good info but it won't help your marriage enough. That's my opinion.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/17/14 11:54 PM
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"A few people have also told me that I should read MMSLP - The Married Man Sex Life Primer. Would that also be good?"

No. Alot of that is just BS from a self-proclaimed expert who has never had any problems in his M according to him.

"And for God sakes please somebody help me. Should file for D and C and put my foot down and show her I mean business? Will this raise my sex appeal to her? Or will it ruin my chances for R?"

First off, you shouldn't keep "demanding" people help you. A little humility will help go a long way.

Next, if you don't want a D, then don't file. All you're doing is stomping your feet like a child. Do you think that's attractive or makes your W want to come back to you? Start getting your head in order and write down what things about the M were issues for her. Detail them here. Explain what your role might have been. Be honest.

Okay. Good. I can take that off my list of things that I need to read then.

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as demanding. I am completely appreciative of all your guys help here. It is invaluable to me. I was just a bit frustrated because it seems like only 1/5th of what I write here actually gets posted. And I am in an extremely bad situation and need advice right away about what moves I should or should not be making. For example, thank God I did not post that letter on the OM's fb page. I would've made a complete fool of myself.

I think you are right. I don't want to file for divorce or custody. But everyone was telling me your wife thinks you're a doormat. You have no spine. Show her there are consequences for her actions. She will respect you more. Right now there is zero chance of her wanting to reconcile with you. If you had filed for divorce right away you might have had a chance. Now she sees you as weak and that is not attractive. And they tell me for God sakes get custody of your child back. Your wife abandoned the marital household and took your daughter with her to her brother's house. You have been a stay at home dad for the last 5 years and the primary care giver. You have taken her to and from school every day. And now your wife wants to take her out of her school, which is a level 1 school, where she is comfortable and has stability and where all her friends are, and put her in a level 2 school where her cousin goes, just because it's closer to where your wife is staying now and it's convenient for her. You need to fight for your rights. That's what they're all telling me. But the only thing I want is for the three of us to be together again and happy. I'm afraid that if I file for divorce or custody it will ruin any chances we may have for reconciling the marriage.

I know what her issues in the marriage were. And I am willing to take responsibility for those things. Her issues with me were that I put on weight, so she couldn't get turned on by me anymore and had told me so. She even said she couldn't post pictures of me on facebook because she was embarrassed by the way I looked. I have since gone on a diet and been hitting the gym every day. I have lost 40 pounds and will continue to do so until I'm back down to my original marriage weight. I didn't get a job outside the house like she wanted me to, even though I pay all the bills fixing computers from home. She works, but all her money goes to her, she doesn't chip in on the bills. I have since gotten a job working in hvac which I went to school for years ago. I am also thinking about getting my cdl class A license again and driving trucks like her brother and cousins do, who seem to be making good money doing that. I had too many fish tanks in the house which she always hated, a total of five, which I have since put on craigslist. I've sold half of them and am trying to sell the rest. I had gone out drinking a couple times with my buddies. I haven't hung out with my friends or gone out drinking since. But she must take full responsibility that she got the hots for a 22 year old at her job and started to have a PA with him in November while still being married and living with me. That's when all the talk about not being happy and wanting a divorce started. Little did I know at the time that the PA with this younger OM was the cause of it all. I thought she was just mad at me cause I wasn't doing all the things she wanted. I have since completely changed my act. But she says it's too late. She says she is in love with this OM, and that he is in love with her. She says she thinks about him all the time, and when they're not together she misses him. I tell her that it's not love, it's lust. I tell her this guy has got fifty other girls on his facebook and that he is a player and that there is no way a 22 year old with a body like that is going to be serious with a 35 year old woman who is married and has a 6 year old daughter. I tell her that she feels all in love and that everything is wonderful because of the newness of the relationship but that it will all fade away and then she will realize what she's doing. She even says she wants to get an apartment with him next year. I told her he's not going to want to do that because then how is he going to bring home the new flavor of the week. God I so want her to come out of the fog. But I'm afraid there's nothing I can do. I almost feel like she will have to go through this and for it to end badly before she realizes what a mistake she's making. It just breaks my heart.
Posted By: Oxford1 Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 12:21 PM
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: Vince H
Well the other night I told the wife rather than having to get a divorce and go through a custody battle for our daughter lets give counseling a try. Worst mistake ever, or rather I picked a bad one. This lady I don't even remember how I found her but by the end of the night she basically told my wife that her EA was justified and that even though he is 22 and she is 35 she sees no reason why it can't work out. It took every last bit of restraint I had not to blow up on this woman. I could barely contain myself. Luckily she knew I was upset and did not charge me for the session. Unbelievable though. Be careful which counselors you choose and read their reviews.

I talked to another one just yesterday who had good reviews and he flat out told me that he won't see couples where their is an ongoing affair. I told him that he was a smart man. I mean how in the hell are you able to get counseling and start working on your marriage if your spouse is unwilling to end their affair. It's impossible.



I don't want to quibble with you b/c your main point (lousy marriage counselors) is a valid one. There are some really lousy counselors out there, who ought to be called "divorce counsellors" instead of marriage counselors.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that SOME couples do work on their marriages while an OP exists (and then sometimes, the OP goes away.)

Not all partners can end the A before they see change in their spouses...they fear that the spouse will simply revert back to their old ways if they give up the OPs.
And in some cases the LBS would not have changed except for the OP becoming involved in their marriage. Like for instance, as an example, MAYBE you would not work on yourself at all, until you heard of OM...

Just a thought. I hope you can find a REAL marriage counsellor asap. Ask them if they are "solution based" and that way you won't spend all your time rehashing the past...

Our MC said if we did not see any changes in our own behaviors and interactions within 5-6 sessions, he was not the MC for us.

I think that's a decent guideline and I'd add this to it---if you don't get ANY good feedback or useful constructive comments within the first 2 sessions, I'd seek out another counselor. And btw, I can vouch for the DB coaches here. I had Vernetta and she was a Godsend for me/us.

She was Very specific w/detailed advice that was useful for me.

Just make sure you tell them the WHOLE story and answer their questions in full. If there are conflicts between what you hear on this board and what your dB coach says, go with the coach. But make sure you are telling the same things to both entities. Make sense?

Good luck!





I have to agree with 25 here. Our MC basically has become a relationship coach for us.
My wife and I where seeing her last year, but my wife was lying to both of us and said she had gone no contact.

After my wife ran off with OM I called MC who said she was going to fire us because she realized my wife was lying.

When we started the collaborative divorce, the Divorce Coach a licensed Forensic Psychologist suggested several COUNSELORS for my wife. The reason was at that time I was really sticking to what I read in DB. The WW became conflicted me vs OM.

She ended up seeing our former MC as An IC. She began to cry her heart and soul out to the psychologist. Who has a list of references of couples whose marriages she saved and rebuilt after affairs.

About two months in my wife had already moved back home but was still in her A. She asked the counselor if she would see me as well. ( I began to slip because as soon as I felt a connection to my wife I began the pick-me dance). She agreed and said she calls this type of therapy Relationship Coaching. We are a separated couple attempting to live together and she wants to keep peace for the sake of our children, but she did tell my wife she is pro marriage and her ultimate goal would be that we reconcile.

( by the way we cancelled the divorce for now and where never "legally separated".)
She has been a great help to me, better then my old IC that I paid thousands of dollars to and did nothing, never worked on ME, probably made me into the wreck that people on my thread saw me to be.

I am wondering if maybe this is an option for you and your WW.

My wife has delegated her OP to Closer than a friend but not a lover, she is afraid to give him up for to many reasons and it would just become a thread jack.

But, what I am saying is maybe using a DB coach as I have done plus if you can find a counselor who will see you both individually , hence getting to know you both, but also hoping to save your marriage, if that's what you really want.

It has been the most grueling ride of my life and I realize that you have to really love your spouse to fight for your marriage, otherwise it's a waste of energy.

Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: Oxford1 Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 12:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Vince H
Ok so this is one of the things I wanted to talk about but didn't get approved on the newcomers forum. One of the goals in db-ing is to make yourself the better choice. But my question is this, the guy who my wife is having her affair with is not only 22 years old but is a model and has a body that is damn near perfect, she wasn't sexually attracted to me anymore because I let my body go, but now that she's tasted forbidden pleasure and has enjoyed being with this younger man sexually how or why would she ever come back to me? Even if I get back down to my marriage weight I will never have a body like this guy. In that case how can I be the better man, sexually? Or even if she moves back with me will she always be longing for him?


That's a shallow approach from your wife. Woman are usually emotionally bonded.

In my case I am the guy your wife ran to. WW and I are the same age, my wife competed in Female Fitness Competitions and works out six days a week.

The man she is in the A with, is tall and gawky, has many physical ailments, pot belly looks 70 and he's 53, diabetic high blood pressure etc...but he was meeting something I was not.

Plus when she's with him she looks like a model and he looks like he's her sugar daddy, even though he earns 1/8 the money I do.
Posted By: Oxford1 Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 12:30 PM
Originally Posted By: ss06
I read the MMSLP and while some of it is good, I'm pretty sure he's no expert. It's good info but it won't help your marriage enough. That's my opinion.


I agree, thing is everything in that book was my marriage we had an active sex life etc, and guess what she still had an affair.

I think the info in that book only works if your spouse is not an Independent self sufficient intelligent woman.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 03:00 PM
Thanks for your post oxford1. Wow. That's all I have to say. I amazed that this is so common and can happen at any age really. And you are right. You have to really love your wife to go through all of this for her. I guess I will keep searching for a good mc, one that is solution based. Thank you.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 03:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: Vince H
Ok so this is one of the things I wanted to talk about but didn't get approved on the newcomers forum. One of the goals in db-ing is to make yourself the better choice. But my question is this, the guy who my wife is having her affair with is not only 22 years old but is a model and has a body that is damn near perfect, she wasn't sexually attracted to me anymore because I let my body go, but now that she's tasted forbidden pleasure and has enjoyed being with this younger man sexually how or why would she ever come back to me? Even if I get back down to my marriage weight I will never have a body like this guy. In that case how can I be the better man, sexually? Or even if she moves back with me will she always be longing for him?


That's a shallow approach from your wife. Woman are usually emotionally bonded.

In my case I am the guy your wife ran to. WW and I are the same age, my wife competed in Female Fitness Competitions and works out six days a week.

The man she is in the A with, is tall and gawky, has many physical ailments, pot belly looks 70 and he's 53, diabetic high blood pressure etc...but he was meeting something I was not.

Plus when she's with him she looks like a model and he looks like he's her sugar daddy, even though he earns 1/8 the money I do.

That's crazy.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 07/18/14 03:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Oxford1
Originally Posted By: ss06
I read the MMSLP and while some of it is good, I'm pretty sure he's no expert. It's good info but it won't help your marriage enough. That's my opinion.


I agree, thing is everything in that book was my marriage we had an active sex life etc, and guess what she still had an affair.

I think the info in that book only works if your spouse is not an Independent self sufficient intelligent woman.

Right. I try to tell people this when they start looking at all my faults and trying to play the blame game. Affairs happen in perfectly happy and healthy marriages too. I could've been perfect and this still could've happened.

Right. I won't pay any attention to that book. I mean I already know how to make myself attractive to women again. It's just that I fell into that husband and daddy role, let myself go and became a chubby hubby thinking that she would love me unconditionally and that we'd spend the rest of our lives together no matter what. Big mistake. Well anyhow I know how to get back to the old me. It's just a matter of doing it.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 08/23/14 03:58 AM
Well I owe you guys an update. I've broken just about even rule in the book. Time to start over from scratch. I will never stop loving my wife and daughter till the day I die. I will fill you in on the details later.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 09/07/14 08:09 PM
Well I just got into another argument today with my wife. It seems that she gets upset so easily and starts fights over nothing. Today it was because she had pulled money out of my account to go shopping with her mother. She said that she owed her mother the money and would pay me back later. I told her that's fine but that she needs to ask me beforehand, not after the fact. She got all upset and said she was coming over to give me the money right now. She rang my doorbell and threw the money in my face. My daughter and her mother were in the car. I went out to the car to ask her why she was acting like this and then to also tell her there was no reason for her to get all upset like this. I gave the money to her mother and then my wife grabbed it and threw it out of her car window and all over the grass. This is unbelievable. And all this after we just got out of church.

Another thing was that my daughter told me that they had gone to pizza hut yesterday with the OM and his kid. I had asked my wife not to bring our daughter around this OM. But she continues to do it. She has no shame. And it is making me sick. I am trying to be patient but I am getting tired of being treated badly. I am also getting tired of her committing adultery right in front of our daughter. This is not right. How do I proceed from here? Before she left I told her that I still love her and want to fix things. But she doesn't want to. She wants me to move on and find somebody else.
Posted By: Ss06 Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 09/11/14 03:57 AM
Vince, you'll get more responses if you post over on Newcomers.
Posted By: BFloat Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 10/21/14 10:53 PM
i'm not sure if you're still reading your threads..

when did your wife move out? i'm confused because there seems to be chunks of information missing or maybe the back story is on a different thread?

it's time to take a deep breath and just slow down. i know it seems difficult and you are doing the same thing a lot of us have in the beginning.. running around in circles.. because everything seems so desperate as though your life is slipping through your fingers. so rather than speed that process up by forcing your spouse to make decisions that may not yet be ready to make.. step back. work on you. vent here if needed.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 11/05/14 07:06 AM
I have a question. Why should I even want my pos wife back after what she has done and continues to do to me and our beautiful daughter. I really feel that her and her lover deserve to burn in hell. Is there something wrong with me for still loving her and wanting her back? I mean seriously what the hell is wrong with me? She evens tells me that herself. That there's something wrong with me for wanting her back and that I need help. She's such a pos and is selfish and does not see what she's doing. It's crazy. This guy is using her it's so obvious. And then when he kicks her to the curb she will be chasing after him like I'm chasing after her. It makes me so angry and hurt I just don't know if I can take it anymore.
Posted By: Vince H Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 11/05/14 07:20 AM
I would post over on newcomers but they told me that it was not good to jump around.
Posted By: adinva Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 11/19/14 05:14 PM
You should post in Newcomers and then not jump around. Stick to one thread there so people can see the whole story when they respond to you. There's a lot more traffic there and you'll get more help.
Posted By: luvmypg Re: Worst marraige counselor ever! - 12/31/14 02:59 AM
Vince...

I've read over your posts. It sounds like you're in a lot of pain and for I understand.

You asked me how I could want my wife back and I replied "I am not sure if I do". The fact still remains that she IS still my wife and I am STILL her husband and I guess I will stand by that until decides otherwise. What she is doing now, like what you're going through, does not make it any easier of course.

One of the best pieces of advice I have gotten from the forum is this -- that the woman I see now and who is in the midst of breaking up our family is not the girl I fell in love and not the girl I married. This is a different woman who is most likely still changing. Having realized that it makes is so much less painful to be around her when (for some reason) we are around each other. I look at her now and she's barely an image of my wife, the body looks something like what I remember but the soul is different.

Try and consider this perhaps and know it was good advice being passed along and as helped me more than I can express.

Good luck, Vince.
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