Hi All,
I dove into Sandi2s thread on the LBH and wayward wife. I implemented some boundaries finally with my wife and one of these is me taking back our bedroom. She seemed almost happy and willing to do this. I am curious if excitement is a normal or often seen reaction? Any feedback or others experiences would be helpful and welcome!
Thank you
Welcome.
I am curious if excitement is a normal or often seen reaction?
I don't recall any.
Thanks for your reply. I guess we will see how it plays out. I just found out she is starting g another relationship after a string of affairs a few months ago. We have been in the same house and I was your typical bend over backwards husband to try and fix it. We had boundaries set and she crossed, I’ve never held to them before and worrying I am backpedaling or pushing her right into his arms. I should mention that she stated she wants to leave the relationship and has no interest in reconciling it. I told her I would not pay for another house when she mentioned leaving, she does not work, so probably have a few months before she gets a job and has enough money to move out. I do love her, but this is not sustainable.
Hello AJK29
Welcome to the boards.
I am copying Cadet’s welcome thread here for your reference.
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm And Michele's articles.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation for a while, which just means your posts are to be reviewed by a moderator before getting displayed. Moderation is usually removed after new posters have created 5-10 posts.
Once your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread and continue on that thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your old full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Have you read Divorce Remedy?
Yes I’ve ready through experiment and test chapter.
I’ll be using the Last Resort technique. I’ve been a doormat.
I’ll be using the Last Resort technique. I’ve been a doormat.
Have you tried the other techniques yet? LRT should be applied after trying the others.
I read it as tying if not in a position to work on the marriage. She just started talking to another man and told me she wants to start having sex again, but not with me. She also has changed the way she dresses and is in recovery for addictions, which she blames on the marriage. Did I read it wrong?
Hello AJK
Please tell us of your situation. Also, how old are you and W? Any kids? How many years married? And together?
You mentioned you taking back the bedroom. Did you move out of the bedroom? Please elaborate.
Take some time and read the links in the welcome post. A lot of good information there.
Let us know more about you and what’s been happening and what’s going on.
Post, ask questions. There are many kind and compassionate folks here with much hard-earned wisdom.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
DnJ
I appreciate the feedback so far.
I’ll go through the backstory
My wife and I have been married for 22 years. I am 44 and she is 42. We have 4 children they are 22,19,16 and 6. We moved about 3 years ago for my job and I found out in July she was on a website meeting men and had multiple partners. She has been in recovery before for alcohol and Love addiction back in 2015, and we didn’t have too many problems after we had our 6 year old. She has utilized AA for meeting people in the past. She did not return to AA, until this year and it was after she was outed. She was remorseful at first and started counseling, AA again, SAA and started going back to church. After about a month she started blaming all the addictions on our marriage and was saying that she didn’t know if she wanted to be married any longer, last month she said she didn’t want to work on the marriage at all, so we did an in house separation. This is when I left the room. We were in marriage counseling at the time but didn’t get much direction. She then wanted to stop the counseling. She also stopped working her SA program and said was just going to use AA. This last weekend she told me she wanted to start having sex again, which we have been in abstinence per her program, but not with me. That she wanted to just do it with a friend where there are no strings. She then told me this last weekend she has a guys phone number she’s been texting and talking with, but that they are just friends. Per her programs she was not supposed to be getting guys phone number and it crossed the separation agreement we set up. Today I told her I wanted the bedroom back and that when we go home, I don’t want to be at her Family Christmas and that I did not want her at mine. I would like to Salvage the marriage if possible but only if in active recovery and willing to work on it. I have Catholic faith and believe in the scriptural definition of marriage. I’m not sure if this was right thing to do or not today, but I can’t keep doing the same things. Sounds crazy writing this out, but I realize this is an addiction and know that her soul is genuine. Sorry for any typos, writing on my phone.
I read it as tying if not in a position to work on the marriage. She just started talking to another man and told me she wants to start having sex again, but not with me. She also has changed the way she dresses and is in recovery for addictions, which she blames on the marriage. Did I read it wrong?
Wow that sounds very familiar to my situation, except for the addictions. But my wife told me the same thing, that she was interested in sex again but not with me.
Rewriting history is a normal part of a WW's journey. My wife tried to say she had never been happy in our marriage, something I knew was not true. Just understand that whatever she claims is her new reality. No sense in arguing with someone that's convinced of what they are claiming.
She was remorseful at first and started counseling, AA again, SAA and started going back to church. After about a month she started blaming all the addictions on our marriage and was saying that she didn’t know if she wanted to be married any longer, last month she said she didn’t want to work on the marriage at all, so we did an in house separation.
Your wife isn’t interested in improving her addictions or saving her marriage. This ⬆️ is classic pathology.
She wants out, she knows she has substance/alcohol abuse problems. What she is doing, by going to AA and church half-heartedly and then saying the marriage is responsible for her addictions and infidelity, is convincing herself in her own mind that what she is doing is okay.
It means she can still look herself in the mirror and not be ashamed and disgusted by what she sees.
From this point forward, your wife is not attempting to fix her addictions or her marriage - she’s making herself feel better about it by convincing herself it’s your fault.
Strap in - you’re in for a wild ride.
It’s a shame she just can’t take responsibility for it - ie “I don’t love you any more, I want to keep taking drugs and alcohol, and I want to f*** around with other guys.”
It would be so much easier if she just owned it.
Within a few weeks, I expect you’ll get some combination of the following:
“If only you’d been more like this before.”
“You’ve done too much damage. It’s too late, you’ve hurt me too much.”
“Some other woman is going to benefit from me fixing you.”
It’s all a very set script, where she will attempt to make you feel like you’re entirely responsible for HER choices.
Hi AJK
Thanks for filling in the backstory.
Something you will discover is that you are not alone. There are all kinds of folks here that understand what you’re going through. Folks from newbie to veteran, and various points in between.
As was mentioned, I think you are in for a rough ride. W’s stated wanting sex with other people, the blaming, the projection, the justification, are all typical wayward spouse behaviour. You cannot talking her out of this. You cannot reason with her to see the light. She has a path she needs to walk, and you (thankfully) were not invited along.
Dig deep. Focus on you and your four kids. Get a Life. And let go W. Give her time and space. Her emotions are all stirred and mixed up. Couple that with addiction and it’s quite a cocktail. She is a lost soul at the moment.
Read. Post. Ask questions. We all require a certain amount of understanding before we can let go. It’s perfectly normal.
Your path is just starting out. Listen to the wisdom of the folks that have gone before. Plenty of this will be counterintuitive. It will feel wrong. Will go against your default behaviour. Realize, everything here is for you. You have to save yourself first. And that gives you your best chance at saving your marriage.
D
Thank you all for the feedback, it is very helpful.
AJK29,
My wife and I have been married for 22 years. I am 44 and she is 42. We have 4 children they are 22,19,16 and 6.
You two were married very young. If you're married 22 years and have a 22 year old, did you get married because she was pregnant? Did you two have any significant relationships before each other? What is each of your family history (specifically parents marriage status)?
We moved about 3 years ago for my job and I found out in July she was on a website meeting men and had multiple partners. She has been in recovery before for alcohol and Love addiction back in 2015, and we didn’t have too many problems after we had our 6 year old. She has utilized AA for meeting people in the past.
Was it just in July you found out she had affairs, or were there issues in years past? Sounds like maybe the latter but I'm not 100% clear.
After about a month she started blaming all the addictions on our marriage
It's so incredibly common for the WAS/WS to blame the marriage and their spouse for all their problems. Not that you're perfect, but keep that in mind when the doubts creep into your head about why she cheated on you and wants a divorce.
This last weekend she told me she wanted to start having sex again, which we have been in abstinence per her program, but not with me.
You haven't been having sex because of her abstinence program? For how long?
She then told me this last weekend she has a guys phone number she’s been texting and talking with, but that they are just friends.
If she admitted to this than rest assured more happened, though above you said multiple partners so maybe I'm a bit confused.
AJK29 - Sounds like your W has multiple serious issues. You have a tough road ahead of you. How are your kids doing?
Hi BL42,
We did decide to get married when she was pregnant.
1. I did not have any significant relationships before her, and she had a 4 year relationship through high school. We were not together very long before getting married. Both of our parents are still married.
2. There were issues in the past. She overdosed on pills back in 2008, and Has had 3-4 episodes of acting out over the years. The first time we didn’t treat as an addiction but she went into outpatient rehab for alcohol. Realized she had a sex addiction when she started hooking up with people at AA. I was her drinking buddy and drank too much myself. I am very aware of my responsibilities of why we are where we are. I went into major codependent mode after the pill episode, but didn’t look at that until recently. I have been working Al Anon 12 steps and not drinking since this last episode went down.
3. She’s giving me the I love you but not in love with you. As well as I’m not sure I’ve ever loved you. Up until today, when I told her she needed to sleep elsewhere and that I didn’t want her at my Christmas and not going to hers, she was still saying I love you and giving kisses and hugs. We have had some passionate kisses and each time she says it’s a mistake.
4. We haven’t had sex in almost 5 months. The recommendation when starting SA trecovery was 3-6 months.
5. She says she is still sober, but is not working her program. I don’t believe it and hence my decision.
Thank you for your response
Starting day 2
Does anyone have the link for Sandi2s Post
“The Newcomer LBH with a Wayward wife”? I can’t locate this morning.
Good Morning AJK
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=57285&Number=2545554#Post2545554A tip:
In a post from a user you will see their user name. AJK29 for example. Pressing it brings a pop up menu of actions, one of which is <Forum Posts>. Clicking on that item brings up (by default) all of that user’s posts. On the top right of that screen you can switch between <Threads Created> and <All Posts>. The <Threads Created> lists all threads by that user.
In this case, go to a sandi2 post (I used the link in the welcome post). Press on sandi2 in the box next to one of her posts. Press Forum Posts, Threads Created, and find the title. Click on the title and it opens that thread.
Have a great day.
D
Thank you! Trying to navigate all this still.
I have a quick question around communicating with
Y kids. With me not participating her Christmas when the children ask why. What is best answer?
They know we are in a in house separation, but I do not want to breakdown their relationship with their mother, or have it look negative on me. I appreciate the feedback.
Hello AJK
Yes, your job is not to facilitate a relationship between child and W. Your job is not to destroy it.
As for the family Christmas gatherings. What is your reason for not participating?
Today I told her I wanted the bedroom back and that when we go home, I don’t want to be at her Family Christmas and that I did not want her at mine.
It is interesting that the bedroom and Christmas gatherings got smushed together. It has an appearance of retribution. Although it is a post from a phone, and it’s difficult to summarize events and details. Hence, me seeking clarification.
D
I did say it in the same conversation. It was due to a boundary being crossed in our separation agreement. Looking I what you wrote I can see that I didn’t think that out. I need to ensure I am not seeking retaliation or control before having these conversations. It’s out there now, and want to be able to communicate it properly to the kids.
What boundary was crossed in your separation agreement?
AJK,
It’s out there now, and want to be able to communicate it properly to the kids.
It’s not carved in stone. You can walk it back. If you want. The three older kids are probably ok with it as is. The six year old; you might want to consider both being present.
I suppose it’s an extension of the in house separation, which they would see everyday. Unless you two can find a way to be in the same room together for a while.
Anyhow, age appropriate answers. What have you explained regarding IHS?
D
We explained to the older kids that we are doing an in-house separation, but at the time she was not dead set on divorce. So I’m not sure where they think we are with it. My oldest does know about my wife’s SA due to her telling him. Our youngest asks questions, and has seen us argue, but and asks questions. I always answer that we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future, but no matter what MOMMY And Daddy both love you so much and that will never change. My wife has told him that mommy will have a separate house at some point and that we would have two houses. I am with him almost each night, unless traveling for work. I’m trying to be as connected as possible. I do bedtime and baths, etc, while she is at meetings. We will both be there for Christmas morning, but just not at each others family parties as it stands currently.
F,
…MOMMY And Daddy both love you so much and that will never change. My wife has told him that mommy will have a separate house at some point and that we would have two houses. I am with him almost each night, unless traveling for work. I’m trying to be as connected as possible. I do bedtime and baths, etc, while she is at meetings. We will both be there for Christmas morning, but just not at each others family parties as it stands currently.
How about:
Mommy and Daddy both love you so much and that will never change. You and I will visit Grandma and Grandpa (name). Later you and Mommy will visit Grandma and Grandpa (name). You, I, and Mommy will all be together Christmas morning.
Young kids are pretty egocentric. The world revolves around them. Usually, letting them know how something affects them, or won’t affect them, is what they are after.
D
First text strand of the day. My W is out getting her hair done this morning. My S6 broke out in a rash last night and I was taking him to urgent care to get it checked out after dropping D16 off at work. Would like to see how to improve. I struggle with this because it comes off kinda cold.
W- Don’t forget D16 has work
H- We Didn’t
W- Are you at the doc?
H- Yes
W- And?
H- Waiting on him to come in
H- Just finished, you were right it was strep
W- Poor guy! I love when I’m right except about sickness
W- Have to get that medicine in him ASAP
W- Make sure he knows he can’t go to (Christmas trip) if doesn’t take the medicine.
H - Thumbs up emoji
W- Found out what size H niece is in. There are super cute cloths at this boutique
W- I’m outside smoking
W- (Sends selfie of her in the hair get up outside)
W- What time you hanging with friend tonight? I need to fit a meeting in at some point
H- I’ll see if my sister can send, but I can get the gifts for my family
W- Alright. Just thought some of these cloths are cute. Nevermind
H- I’ll probably go around 8 or so
This is great thank you DnJ
Last post on text above. W just wrote back 2 more things. Thinking about how to answer because I easily could oblige with this request.
W- OK
W- Could you go at 9?
This is so she can hit the 8:00 meeting at her clubhouse. Although there are other meeting times today.
M,
You have young kids so there is going to be five or take for the next 15 years. You have to decide on how flexible you want to be.
I know some of this may sound petty. She just texted again and said she’s going to walk downtown and be home in an hour. I had a 1:30 call scheduled, which I can still do but may get interrupted by S6. Do we just let theses things go or do can we say something?
You should probably come up with a schedule for who looks after D6. Then be out of the house when it isn’t you.
Hi FM
It’s not uncommon for wayward spouses to become terrible parents. Forgetful, missed appointments, not keeping to a schedule, not concerned about your schedule, etc. For most things, ensure you have a back up plan in case she drops the ball big time.
You can discuss scheduling with W. Just keep your expectations low. Depending on how she is seeing things, she may feel that she needs to live her life now, and nothing is going to stand in her way.
D
Thanks Again D,
Hearing a lot about just wanting to start her life. So what you say makes sense.
I am 44 and she is 42. We have 4 children they are 22,19,16 and 6.
Hi brother,
The most important thing right now is the 6yo. The second most important thing is your relationship with the other three.
As others have suggested, get some type of parenting agreement on who's time it is to watch 6yo. 50/50 is best unless one of the parents is extremely f'd up. Keep track of any exceptions. Exceptions will occur and you should be flexible and available. If it becomes excessive, then you may need to address it.
Emails/text about parenting and other business is fine. No personal issues.
Just found her buying lingerie on eBay, crazy [censored]. I don’t know how to handle this. I can’t believe she’s doing this out in the open.
What are you telling yourself about it? Take a deep breath and tell us here about it. Don’t react.
I was at my friends house when I started getting notifications of eBay bids/offers. I figured just Christmas shopping. Then A picture of Lingerie came up and said had active bid. We are not having sex currently and last weekend she told me she wanted to start having sex again, but not with me. She was in a program for sex addiction, which she is currently not working. I understand the risks of being married to a sex addict. When I got home she started to talk about my night. To which I said See you’ve been busy shopping tonight. I said I assume you are seeing someone now? She said what are you talking about. I Told her about the multiple notifications that came through on the bids for lingerie. he was shopping for our daughter and a bra for herself, not lingerie. I said there were bids on a teddy, which she said oh yeah i did bud on two. I want to look sexy and have things to wear under my dresses, Why point would I have to lie? I then said something along the lines of I know all I need to and walked out of the room. Normally I would dig in and create an argument. When I came back inside she started talking about something else unrelated, and then said something along the lines of I said “just because I want to look sexy doesn’t mean I am [censored] someone. I said I didn’t want to talk about it, and she got a little heated. Then more heated telling me I’ve treated her different the last two days and that I was a Dick, ever since she told me about the guy friend number she got. I said I’m only doing what’s best for me and I don’t want to talk about it right now. She then proceeded to call me a pu$*y and said I’ve always been one. Which I just didn’t respond. This is not how I envisioned the night and made some strides in not fuellimg an argument, but still mishandled it. Need to know best way to respond to names, because when I don’t say anything that seems weak. Sorry for the Novel but really want to get this right the next time. The last thing she asked about was church tomorrow, I just said I was going and she’s like, I’m not part of that now? I answered you can do what you want, but S6 and I are going.
Please give any feedback.
Thank you Ready for the feedback
I also should mention She started talking about Divorce for some reason while I was trying to get out the door and tell S6 goodbye for the night. He didn’t want me to leave. I said didn’t want to talk about it. She said that because I am dictating everything now she is going to reach out to a lawyer to see what her rights are. To that I just stated do what you need to do and left.
F,
Wow man this is tough to follow. First off anytime she feels she is losing control she will threaten divorce in attempt for you to submit to her because she knows you don’t want it. Secondly, when a woman calls a man the P-word it is the ultimate showing of disrespect. Buying lingerie on your account and telling you she wants to sleep with other man. DISRESPECT.
Not gonna lie to you F you are going to need a lot of strength to turn this around.
Before we get into all of that, have you seen a lawyer because that should be your first step?
FM, I don't know your sitch entirely but I will read up when I have more time over the next few days. I'm sorry I don't have time today to do so.
I did want to jump on one thing you said - she's not currently working her SLA program ... you can't do anything about that, but you sure as h#ll can work one of your own. There are family groups for the A programs ... even if it's not a family group specific to sex addiction here's the dirty little secret - every addiction is the same: shopping, sex, food, alcohol, drugs ... doesn't matter, just a different way to try to fill the emptiness the addict feels inside. so an alanon family group can offer you some guidance and help. i strongly suggest you search for one in your area. while most are meeting again in person, there are also many which meet via zoom.
this is one major step you can take for yourself which will help you with detachment. Once you have reached a certain level of detachment you'll be able to find some peace and have some space to think more clearly about yourself and what you want.
Think about it.
xoxo
Thanks for the reply L,
I have not spoke to a lawyer yet, but will be on Monday. Sorry for the format as well. Not the easiest platform to use on the phone. The disrespect is immense for sure, and I’m curious on best response when the names start to ensure it shows will not be tolerated. Sometimes she will apologize, other times not. I’d be curious to know how that response looks as well if she decides to apologize. Im good either way, and do not expect her to. I appreciate the feedback.
Hi bttrfly,
I appreciate your response.
I am currently in AL-Anon and working steps. I just finished step 6. I am in a totally different mindset now and know I am going to be ok no matter how this turns out. I do want my marriage and family in tact, and willing to fight all the way through. I just want to make sure I am working the process correctly while going through it.
I was going to use this when boundaries are crossed in conversation.
I will not tolerate the disrespect coming from you right now, the conversation is over. If you want to have this discussion we can do it another time, when you are ready to act like an adult.
Still seems weak, suggestions?
I also would like to know what book is best recommended for these types of behaviors. I just ordered No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover.
Also any other suggestions around additional support besides IC, like a coaching service?
Thanks again all
I will not tolerate the disrespect coming from you
Use this and just walk away. Apologies are meaningless when they are not sincere.
Start with No more Mr. Nice Guy. Don’t bite off more then you can chew right now.
Thank you L!
I am on my way to an Al Anon meeting and she texts me to see what card to put a flight on to get her home for Christmas. I told her I wanted to discuss when I got home. She said she wanted to do it anyways, so I locked the credit cards. I’m not sure if right thing to do or not.
Here is text thread
W- I’m going to book a flight for Christmas
W- Which card would you like me to use?
H- Neither until discussed
H- We need a plan
H- We can talk later to figure it out
W- I’m going to book it now. There are only a few flights left
H- We can talk about it later
W- Did you disable these credit cards?
W- What is the PayPal password? I am booking this flight bc there is only one left
H- We can talk about it later
W- Fu$& That
Ok, FM, I read your thread.
She's in a relapse, plain and simple. Saturday night AA meetings are date night meetings ... you know the routine - go to a meeting, hang out after for coffee, sometimes hookups happen.
If she's not yet using substances, there's a better than good chance that she's on her way.
I'm glad you're in Alanon and working the steps - I assume with a sponsor. Keep working your program for both AA and Alanon. Plan your day around a meeting, or something recovery-centered.
You know what is said in the halls: who are we to deny an addict their bottom? She has to hit a bottom plain and simple for any change to occur and only HP knows what that looks like.
You have children who need you. I understand completely your statement about the Catholic significance of marriage. It's a sacrament for a reason. You want your family and marriage intact, but better than it is now. I'm not saying you're looking for an out, divorce or annulment, but as a Catholic I found this particular bit of information enlightening. Perhaps you will as well:
"Any Catholic granted an annulment can be remarried in the church—and any Catholic who
does not receive one cannot.
Diocesan tribunals, therefore, focus not on the health or longevity of a marriage itself, but on
the circumstances surrounding the beginning of a marriage: Was it a “shotgun wedding”
because of an unexpected pregnancy? Was the marriage coerced by physical or verbal violence?
Did one partner hide an ongoing addiction from the spouse? Did both parties actually
understand what was meant by the sacrament itself—the promise to remain sexually faithful,
not to abandon one’s spouse, to be open to children without strings attached? Any and all can
be evidence of “the absence or defect of consent,” in church parlance. "
That's a lot to take in. But I want you to really try to keep an open mind when you read that over again. Your old marriage is dead. You're going for one that's new, better, and stronger. One that can pass the acid test laid out above.
The question is how do you get there from here.
LET HER HIT HER BOTTOM. No one on earth knows what that is or what it looks like, but if she never hits it, she'll never get well.
Take the time to figure out what your core values are. You're on step 6 ... so you're well aware of what you've done and your patterns of behavior have emerged in Steps 4 & 5. Step 7 is about willingness and trust in the relationship you started in steps 2 & 3 with your HP. Figure out the 3-5 core values that are yours. What's most important to you? Values like loyalty, honesty, compassion, service ... what values do you embody or want to embody in your life moving forward? This is a crucial and fundamental step, imho, to moving forward with authenticity. Once you know what your core values are, it's much easier to know where to draw the boundary line and hold firm, because you know with certainty what does and doesn't jibe with your core values.
Once you know what they are, do not be afraid to stand up for your core values or your children's well-being. I well understand the fear of living with someone in crisis. You're afraid to do anything to upset the apple-cart but that in and of itself causes more problems. Don't cushion her fall.
Find out your options legally. Find out your financial obligations, rights and responsibilities in case you need to act at some point. Knowledge helps you sleep better at night and keeps you out of the land of what if.
Most of all, don't confuse being a jerk with standing up for yourself. You can set a strong limit and still do so with dignity and respect for both yourself and the years you spent together. She will always be the mother of your children. Behave in a way that your children will be proud of 10, 15, 20, 30 years from now.
Good Morning F
Locking the credit card was a reaction, rather than a thought out response.
If you are concerned about spending and money management then deal with that before things pop up.
For example, when my W left and moved in with OM, her and I were joint on everything. She (and him) could have charged up a storm on “our” good credit of 30+ years. I called the card company and asked what options I had for limiting my financial liability. I had to cancel the card, pay it off in full, then get a new one issued in just my name.
Take planned actions rather than unplanned reactions.
Locking your credit card may have been for the best; I’m not sure what the future in which unfettered credit access held in store. However, do realize that she can do the same to you. You may find yourself locked out of things too. Fighting usually begets fighting.
Sorry buddy. I know this is a tough road. Lots of pothole and twists and turns.
D
I'm sure you felt you had no other option since she wouldn't respect your boundary. When you talk to her about this, you can tell her exactly that - I acted because I felt I had no other choice. We need to respect each other's boundaries. Regardless of what happens with our marriage, we're going to be in each other's lives because of our children and eventual grandchildren.
I'm not sure why you didn't want her to book flights. I do know that flights on Christmas day are significantly cheaper.
Not ideal, but ... it's an option.
Thanks for the reply L,
I have not spoke to a lawyer yet, but will be on Monday. Sorry for the format as well. Not the easiest platform to use on the phone. The disrespect is immense for sure, and I’m curious on best response when the names start to ensure it shows will not be tolerated. Sometimes she will apologize, other times not. I’d be curious to know how that response looks as well if she decides to apologize. Im good either way, and do not expect her to. I appreciate the feedback.
Namecalling response. DB the heck out of it:
"W, you can think whatever you want, but I will not tolerate being spoken to this way." and leave. She can't argue with someone who isn't there, and isn't engaging.
I am so grateful for the responses! I can’t believe I didn’t know groups like this were out there
Thank you all again for your feedback!!
Me again
Just walked in from my GAL this morning. Al Anon meeting and Church. Why did you turn off the credit cards? I said we will still get your ticket but we need to plan what the trip looks like for all of us. I said when you want to plan this out we can sit down and talk. She continues and I said I’m not doing this right now with S6 in the room. She told me that shutting the cards down is illegal, both are just in my name, and that I’ll pay for it. She said my mom said she’d pay for it. I said we will pay for when we create the plan. This was funny to me since she ignores her mom constantly and pushes her mother away or blames her for the way she feels after talking to her. She likes to historically put her mother and I in the same bucket. Her mom is extremely codependent and has always been intertwined in our marriage, even though we moved across country. My guess is W will be reaching out to her more through this ordeal. Not sure if I need to communicate to her or not about the situation, since my oldest S22 is currently lining with them.
I was making S6 a sandwich and she continued to attempt to talk and Then started calling me a weak little man. That her friend “Greg” from AA told her this is what you’d do, called me spiteful. Then she started bad mouthing me to S6. I took him in the other room and ignored the barrage coming from the other room. I told S6 that mommy was mad and that we both love him. He went back out there and she continued. Sorry for rant, will continue the path. Posting here helps me remember to journal the day as well. I still can’t believe this is the same woman.
Thank you all again
One last item, she told S6 that I’m a terrible example as to how to treat a woman. Not sure how to overcome that. I just told him that I love his Mommy and that she is angry.
It's not the same woman. It's the same woman in active addiction/alcoholism with no program and no recovery.
Program says women stay with the women and guys stay with the guys, especially when they're new or just coming back.
Good job bringing your son into the other room.
How do you feel about the continued emotional abuse in front of your kids? While it's true you can't control someone else, especially an active addict/alcoholic, you have absolute control over your response.
I think the first thing you may want to think about is what lessons your kids are learning from this situation and watching / hearing her abuse you and what you can or want to do about that. Parental alienation is a real thing and not to be taken lightly.
regarding what she said to your son --- you're doing the right thing by telling him she's angry and that you love him. Keep him close. Whatever happens you're going to be dealing with her until your youngest is out of college, potentially. As tough as it is, keep taking the high road. Vent here. Are you working with a MC?
We do not have an MC, I set one up for the 19th of this month but was going to cancel. She didn’t want to go, and I told her we at least need mediation.
This is really really hard FM. I admire the way you handled yourself and fathered S in this scenario.
Please don’t apologize for anything about your posts. They are meant to be honest raw and real. That’s why we are here.
I can’t make this stuff up, she is now burning our last name sign and not sure what else, marriage books and anything else I guess she can find.
also, a fresh thought. if she won't calm down, take yourself and your son out to do something - get an ice cream, go visit Santa, go for a drive to someplace where you can walk or play together.
I can’t make this stuff up, she is now burning our last name sign and not sure what else, marriage books and anything else I guess she can find.
take your son and leave. now.
if she's doesn't have an audience, she won't perform.
i don't guarantee you won't have a pile of ashes when you get home, but your son won't have to witness his mother completely out of control, and you won't have to deal with it either.
also, do you know who her sponsor is? can you call that person after you leave the house with your child(ren)?
We do not have an MC, I set one up for the 19th of this month but was going to cancel. She didn’t want to go, and I told her we at least need mediation.
I'd advise keeping the appointment even if you go alone.
Do not let her provoke you into any action which can be construed as a domestic situation.
if she is being aggressive in any way, call the authorities.
I haven’t read your thread yet, however, there is a distinct line where the safety of you and your Son outweigh anything else.
Sorry to post again. I am now receiving texts from my Mother in Law about not letting her daughter come in for Christmas. I also just received a text from my parents which I will post below. I have no clue how to handle or how much to say. I am going to reach out to my program support and sponsor as well.
“I don’t know what has gotten into your son, but please talk some sense into him. He has shut down all the credit cards and PayPal and I can no longer do Christmas shopping. He refuses to have an adult conversation. This is me hoping maybe you and Andy can talk some sense into him. It’s not right the way he is treating me. I simply want to finish my shopping. Last night he told me I could book a plane ticket for xxx bc we can’t stand to be around eachother without fighting and when I told him I was going to this morning, he shut everything down. I do not have access to cash so he is basically making it so I have NOTHING. I can’t even put gas in my car. I am going to start substitute teaching, but I don’t feel like I have time to start before Christmas. Nor would I get a paycheck. Please talk some sense into your son. This isn’t right.”
The part about her wanting to fly because the fighting is new. She has been saying she wants to fly so she can come home early because she doesn’t think she could be around her mother that long.
Again not sure how much to tell her mother. I responded that she’s hearing one side of the story and that I did say we would purchase the tickets when we had a plan in place for the week.
I would definitely get your sponsor involved.
I want you to understand that anything put in a text can and probably will be used against you, so you need to think very carefully about how to respond to this.
Hi F
Oh my goodness. Things sure can flip direction really quick.
I’d not talk to W’s mother. Blood is thicker than water, and in the end she will likely defend and support her daughter.
Talk to your Mom and Dad. Call them. Not text. A call. Person to person.
I’m not sure how much they know what is, and has been going on, so be prepared to explain stuff. You don’t need to go into all the dirty details, however they are getting dragged into this from W, so best to ensure they have a more clear picture. They are probably rather worried, I’d suspect.
If W or things are really getting out of hand, call the authorities.
When things cool off, correct the credit card mess.
D
Thank you B and D,
She of course manipulated her mom into buying the ticket. Seems to be in a better mood, but of course took that opportunity to tell me how controlling and how i want her totally dependent on me so she crawls back. She’s never worked so that makes me feel some guilt. Also said how do i know if she crosses boundaries if i don’t tell her what they are. Just gonna keep moving forward, even if I may have taken a couple steps back through the day. Think the credit card lock was wrong move, but didn’t have much time to think.
She's in a better mood because she got what she wanted.
Credit card lock - you did the best you could with what info you had to work with ... the important thing is to learn from this and move on, not making the same mistake again.
Maybe work on being more clear about stating your boundaries in future. I still think you need to see a lawyer - or a few - as soon as possible to gather information about what your rights and responsibilities are, especially if she's burning things and texting family members.
Also keep that MC appointment, and maybe you can suggest she attend so you can work together on boundary setting since regardless of the state of the marriage you are co-parenting four kids.
In thinking more about this, I think it's safe to say you've learned something important today about how wife will behave when she feels cornered, trapped and doesn't get her way.
Remember this as you move forward.
Don’t get excited mate. Things aren’t better now because she’s temporarily calmed down.
You seem like most NGS guys who arrive here. You see calm and less adversarial as better, and you see her livid, angry and foaming at the mouth as bad.
You need to flip 180 on this. Learn to embrace it.
Sure, maybe locking the CCs wasn’t the smartest idea. But you know what, let her flip the table, let her start manipulating your family with messages. She can get as angry as she likes. Don’t be afraid of it. She gets angry and throws her toys out of the pram because she knows she usually gets her way when she does that. She sounds like a child wrapped in an adult body.
Would you give you dog a treat if it pissed on the carpet? Same thing here. Ignore and be completely unswayed by bullsh*t behaviour. Only respond and engage with reasonable behaviour. You just stay cool and calm and happy 24/7 😎
It is my firm belief in your case that:
a) it is very unlikely this marriage will be saved. She’s an out of control addict with anger issues who is verbalising she wants sex with other men. The chances she hasn’t done that already are slim to none
b) you REALLY need to sit down with a counsellor for a few hours and ponder the following question - Why do I want to be with this woman?
My gut feeling is that your sense of religious obligation and even moreso your fear of the unknown is keeping you from admitting that this person is a very toxic, very selfish and very dangerous person to be around for the next 50+ years.
A few last bits:
1. Call your parents and explain. Ask them not to respond to her.
2. Install wifi cameras in your house to protect your possessions. With an imminent divorce she will steal things to pay for drugs/sex/alcohol
3. Do not interact with her or even be in the same place with her without your phone recording audio. It’s very clear she’s going to make fake DV claims
4. Protect your children at all costs. Consider taking 6 year old and leaving.
I get your religious obligations around marriage. I really do - that used to be me. But my WW was going to church on the weekend, and banging other guys during the week. Looking back, my sense of religious obligation is one of my huge regrets. It just made a bad situation worse because I hung in there through atrocious behaviour.
If you left this marriage now, when your time comes, I’m pretty sure your God would look at your decision to protect yourself and your six year old from a toxic, manipulative addict and wouldn’t begrudge you for leaving.
Also, you can leave without getting divorced.
Good luck 💙💙💙
Thanks B and K,
I definitely think she is in active sex addiction. I think she is honest about her 4 months clean from alcohol and drugs. Think it somewhat validates the other behavior. I again appreciate everyone.
Keep coming back here for perspective encouragement and reinforcement FM. You got this!
FM, remember right now you cannot believe a word she says, and only half of what she does. This is why MC doesn't work, because she is going to say what is convenient, not honest. Even in (and maybe especially in) MC. MC can work with two committed, actively involved in working on the marriage spouses. When one spouse has 1 foot out the door it is a complete waste of time and the WAS will use it for their own devices.
Is she 4 months clean from alcohol and drugs? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly don't put your eggs in that basket based on her words (see above).
FM, how is your GAL activities going? Are you staying busy? Why not stop MC and start IC? Remember this is a time to be working on yourself and trying to become the best version of yourself that you can be! Don't squander that opportunity.
Please read up on detachment. It really is the goal you should be striving for at the moment. Her crazy is just that, her crazy. When you are feeling good about things because she is calm, and anxious when she is upset then you need to work on that detachment. Once you start becoming detached it will be shocking to you how clear thinking you start to become.
Did you read the initial welcome threads that the mods provide? All of them? I would make sure to read them all multiple times. There is gold in those links! Also I don't if you have read DB or DR yet, but that should be your biggest next step. Get one of them (preferably DR) and make sure to read it at least twice and try to absorb all of what MWD says.
SteveLW, how do you suggest they attempt boundary setting without a third party to referee ??
SteveLW, how do you suggest they attempt boundary setting without a third party to referee ??
Boundaries are the most misunderstood concept on the board, in my opinion. Boundaries aren't about the behavior of the walkaway, it is to guide the LBS's actions in relation.
Any boundary that tries to affect the behavior of the WAS is pressure and pursuit in the name of trying to control what you cannot control.
Let's take FM's situation. Maybe his boundary is that he won't tolerate her continued use of drugs. Any boundary that starts with "I told her......" is wrong. Which is why a 3rd party is not necessary for boundary setting.
The general format for a boundary is:
"If she does X, I will do Y." You don't have to state it. You don't have to tell her anything. You take action.
"If I find out she is using again, I will go file for divorce, hire a lawyer, and push for full custody of my kids."
No need to state. Just do. And in fact we had a great example of this on this board (I believe his screen name was mbr, I wish he still posted!)
Fwd...
I read your thread...
I'm not much on day to day, situational stuff....
My first thought reading through it is...
I'm not quite sure which one of you is trying to reach for the Divorce first...
That is a lot, from both of you...
So I guess the questions that I will ask you are...
What do you want ????
What are you willing to work for ???
How badly do you really want this ???
Not to upset you, just curious...
I see you relying on her for the majority of your answers.
And you are never going to be able to follow her through this crisis with your sanity....
You have to lead, and lead hard, in hopes that she will follow you through it.
Yet, you can't lead having the same decisions and actions that got you here in the first place...
SteveLW, how do you suggest they attempt boundary setting without a third party to referee ??
Boundaries are the most misunderstood concept on the board, in my opinion. Boundaries aren't about the behavior of the walkaway, it is to guide the LBS's actions in relation.
Any boundary that tries to affect the behavior of the WAS is pressure and pursuit in the name of trying to control what you cannot control.
Let's take FM's situation. Maybe his boundary is that he won't tolerate her continued use of drugs. Any boundary that starts with "I told her......" is wrong. Which is why a 3rd party is not necessary for boundary setting.
The general format for a boundary is:
"If she does X, I will do Y." You don't have to state it. You don't have to tell her anything. You take action.
"If I find out she is using again, I will go file for divorce, hire a lawyer, and push for full custody of my kids."
No need to state. Just do. And in fact we had a great example of this on this board (I believe his screen name was mbr, I wish he still posted!)
Boundaries are confusing until you understand them.....
To me...
Boundaries are to protect yourself, not to punish....
Boundaries are not to induce a reaction, they are there regardless the reaction.
Boundaries are quietly enforced, rather than violently enforced...
Yet enforcing the boundary is the most essential part of them. And IF you are not ready to enforce it, and don't enforce it, then it is the same ol, same ol behavior from the LBS.
Too many people throw out a boundary and aren't ready to live with enforcing them....
And as Puppy says....that is the most important part of them...
EXAMPLE ONLY....I will no longer allow myself to live in an open marriage. IF that is your choice moving forward, then I will take action for myself and our children
But man....you better be ready to live it....
A WAS will view it as an ultimatum, and those rarely work well....
Good Morning FM
W’s comment about how does she know if she crosses any boundaries if you do not tell her what they are, does have some validity. A little bit. Like maybe 10%. Her statement is mostly her just deflecting accountability, rather than actually wanting to know.
Boundaries are for you. They are a mechanism for extracting one from an unhealthy or toxic situation. Boundaries define the action you will take when W behaves in a certain manner.
Boundaries are clearly laid out. With a clearly defined proceeding event or behaviour, and a rock-solid enforcement which is your action.
Boundaries need not be stated to the W, or whomever the boundary is for, the clearly defined is really for you. You have clearly spelt it out. This defining happens when you are calm, and not embroiled within the unhealthy situation. In this manner, boundaries are logical, reasoned, pre-defined, planned actions you take when certain behaviour occurs.
However, stating your boundary is often a good idea. Be ready, it will be tested. Most people who partake in emotional attacks, especially an angry errant spouse, will smash against your boundary. Like a teenager, they smash against your resolve. Testing for cracks and weakness. And like a teenager, they rebel, as they learn just where you stand.
An aside, having been a teenager myself
, and having had four teenagers, they need to test. They need to know and believe in your strength. That you have a spine and will do what you say. Not fold like a house of cards. To know, to believe, that you can be counted on.
Realize boundaries are not for behaviour modification. The focus is about you extracting yourself from unhealthy situations, not stopping the unhealthy situation. That being said, most people will and do positively respond to boundaries, self-modifying their behaviour. Most folks do not wish to punch the wall over and over and over. They actually just don’t understand how their behaviour is seen. And by far, folks do not want to be the villain.
Reciprocity is at play as well. Responding, not reacting. Positively responding to a situation influences change within the other person. Kindness begets kindness. Fighting begets fighting. Like for like. Lead by example.
People will treat you as you let them. And further, people will treat you as you show them.
A boundary is about what you can control and what you cannot. At its heart, most boundaries are about disrespect. Disrespectful behaviour.
Respect is needed for trust, loyalty, love, character, etc. Disrespect tears that down.
An example of a boundary:
W, calling me names is disrespectful. When you start disrespectful name calling, I will cease our conversation and leave the room.
Think the credit card lock was wrong move, but didn’t have much time to think.
The word “but” is often used to justify an action. It’s not that you didn’t have much time to think. It’s that you didn’t take the time to think. You reacted.
Doing nothing is doing something.
Consider this. W could have just bought the tickets without even talking to you. So the “actual” purchase of the tickets is not likely the issue. So what is it that bothered you? Figure that out.
And I mean within you. Something inside you caused you to react. Discover what that is. And why it is. Then you can alter it to better serve you. You only control you.
D
I love the advice in these threads. Thank you all for the responses.
My biggest question of the most recent responses is around some of what Sandi2 said and what some in here are saying. When is the right time to have conversations with a wayward wife. I have been walking out of the room when she enters, not paying much attention and trying to be scarce. It feels cold to me. I feel like the Wayward advice is different than what I read in DB. It seems like WW advice is much stricter toward them. I could be misreading.
As for my GAL I just started this process last week. We set up a schedule which we didn’t have before and will be jumping in fully to GAL. I have been home every night over the last 3-4 months unless traveling for work to make sure I spend time with S6.
Mach,
Here are my answers to the questions you asked and thank you for your post!
What do you want ???? I want to be healthy, happy and spiritually for. Ideally this includes my family intact with my W.
What are you willing to work for ??? I am willing to work 100% on getting myself better and the best interests of my family
How badly do you really want this ??? My family is the most important thing to me in my life, next to God. There is nothing I want more in this life. I can’t do anything for them if I am not my best self.
Mach,
Here are my answers to the questions you asked and thank you for your post!
What do you want ???? I want to be healthy, happy and spiritually for. Ideally this includes my family intact with my W.
What are you willing to work for ??? I am willing to work 100% on getting myself better and the best interests of my family
How badly do you really want this ??? My family is the most important thing to me in my life, next to God. There is nothing I want more in this life. I can’t do anything for them if I am not my best self.
<<<insert Family Feud Clap>>>
Good answers...
Is what happened this past weekend, the best that you can do ???Cause I want you to think about this for now...
When, and typically, when a person finds themselves here, and asking the kinds of questions that you are, and having the kind of interactions that you are having...
The marriage that you once knew is over and gone.
And I see so much of you still trying to (understandable at this point) use the rules of the old marriage and apply to whatever this new situation is....
Being all of that for you, is exactly as it is written.......for you
One thing I want to bring up is the religious part of this.
I do understand how and why you feel that way..
In all of my years here, I have NEVER seen a WAS turn because of their faith.
I've seen major work done after their bottom because of it, yet never a turn in the heat of the battle....
I can tell you that although it might be a hill that you are willing to stand on, make sure that it is YOUR hill for now....She won't be beside you.
One thing that a WAS fears the most is judgement, and a close second being the guilt that they are having because of their decisions.
And you my new friend, have the Grand Prize Winner there in Catholicism..
She will turn her back on religion, especially Catholicism because of that . The most common line that I've heard is that my religion turned it's back on me when I needed it, so I am turning my back on it now.
Just be prepared, if that is your hard line, to have it crossed.
Make sense ??
For now though, she isn't YOUR answer to get where you want to be....
So maybe stop looking to her for those answers..
Family ? Man, don't depend on them either.
For her family ?
Blood is way thicker than water, remember that always, and even if it doesn't seem that way now, eventually they will show their true colors.
Yours?
Man, this isn't an open mic forum to bash her. Keep it light and let them know that this is your decision, and they either support YOU, or it's not up for discussion.
Keep that path smooth for down the road. It's easier to walk that way....
One thing that was always in the back of my mind during this was....
This will all be public knowledge one day...
What would I want my kids to read, when it is.....
????
SteveLW, how do you suggest they attempt boundary setting without a third party to referee ??
Boundaries are the most misunderstood concept on the board, in my opinion. Boundaries aren't about the behavior of the walkaway, it is to guide the LBS's actions in relation.
Any boundary that tries to affect the behavior of the WAS is pressure and pursuit in the name of trying to control what you cannot control.
Let's take FM's situation. Maybe his boundary is that he won't tolerate her continued use of drugs. Any boundary that starts with "I told her......" is wrong. Which is why a 3rd party is not necessary for boundary setting.
The general format for a boundary is:
"If she does X, I will do Y." You don't have to state it. You don't have to tell her anything. You take action.
"If I find out she is using again, I will go file for divorce, hire a lawyer, and push for full custody of my kids."
No need to state. Just do. And in fact we had a great example of this on this board (I believe his screen name was mbr, I wish he still posted!)
Let me clarify my position on boundaries - they are for the person setting them, not the person they are directed at.
They are not going to be able to come to any consensus without a neutral third party. She's too far gone. And whatever she agrees to isn't going to stick, but at least the attempt will have been made.
As you've laid these boundaries out - they aren't boundaries, dude. There's never even any conversation to let the other person know where they stand. What you're talking about, imho, is dominance.
How's that working for anyone?
It isn't. It doesn't.
let's not confuse boundaries with consequences.
Bttrfly, in an effort to not hijack FM's thread I'll just agree to disagree.
boundaries need to be stated. consequences need to be laid out. people need to communicate. if most of the married people on this board could actually communicate in a healthy way they wouldn't be here.
yes, individuals need to know what they will and will not tolerate. However, not communicating that to their spouse and going directly to the consequence only fuels the problem - classic and literal case in point - FM's wife actually tossed things into a fire after he shut down the CCs. His boundary was clearly that she didn't listen when he said they would discuss it later, his consequence to her not listening was shutting off the $$. He never said hey - i'm not feeling like you're hearing me, and I feel strongly enough about this that I will shut off the credit cards until you are willing to talk to me about this. He just went straight to cutting off her access to $$.
How'd that work for him?
* Parental alienation with his six year old
* Verbal abuse, in front of his six year old
* Things being tossed into a fire, presumably the 6 year old saw that happening.
* Texts to both his parents and MIL involving them and now DOCUMENTING her belief that he's controlling her access to money, which, btw, legally in my state is considered spousal abuse.
Should FM's marriage end in divorce court, this is not going to help him.
Further action without discussion is not going to help him.
We're supposed to become better men and women through the DB process, someone whom our spouses would be a fool to leave. A key piece of that is learning how to communicate in a new and different way. Behaving like a domineering @$$ isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
If he or they keep the MC appointment and the worst case scenario happens (they end up in divorce court) at least FM will have ON RECORD that he saw a neutral third party and made the effort to communicate boundaries in a healthy way. I see no downside there for him.
Bttrfly, in an effort to not hijack FM's thread I'll just agree to disagree.
I don't view discussing FM's situation on his thread as a hijack of his thread. You and I will not agree on that or this boundary issue and we don't need to. FM needs to take all the input he gets, consider the various sources (because everyone should ALWAYS consider the source) and take action that he feels is most appropriate to him.
I love the advice in these threads. Thank you all for the responses.
My biggest question of the most recent responses is around some of what Sandi2 said and what some in here are saying. When is the right time to have conversations with a wayward wife. I have been walking out of the room when she enters, not paying much attention and trying to be scarce. It feels cold to me. I feel like the Wayward advice is different than what I read in DB. It seems like WW advice is much stricter toward them. I could be misreading.
As for my GAL I just started this process last week. We set up a schedule which we didn’t have before and will be jumping in fully to GAL. I have been home every night over the last 3-4 months unless traveling for work to make sure I spend time with S6.
Sandi's rules for dealing with a WW is much more of a tough love approach than is straui up DBing. But remember that Sandi was a former WW. Her tactics were from knowing herself how she needed to be handled by her LBH during her wayward period. She saw both sides. At first her LBH was like most of us and rolled over for her in an effort to appease her. It wasn't until he toughened up, started appearing to not give a crap, and started commanding respect that she finally, slowly started to come around.
Keep reading her writings! There's gold in them. I had the privilege of having her directly guiding me in my threads, and her advice was phenomenal. Unfortunately she hasn't posted in quite a while, but luckily her writings are still with us.
WWs and WAWs need to be dealt with a little differently. That's one message that Sandi really tried to bring. So yes at times you might feel a little cold. As I said before, to me in cases like yours, that is better than being to far the other direction. Which is what most of us tend to lean towards especially early on.
Thank you for this Response. I see where you are saying how I can communicate what will happen when it is an action I am going to take.
I will continue to learn from my mistakes. The goal is to grow myself and see what happens with the marriage.
Mach,
Thank you so much for your response!
I have kept all of this close to the vest. I only speak with my support groups and counselor. I have learned the hard way to not talk about her faith
At the beginning she was all into it. I try to let my faith guide me and part of that is why I think the NC is hard for me to not feel like an [censored].
As for family, I do not share anything beyond how it is going. As for when I said that my family is the most important I was referring to my wife and children.
SteveLW,
Thank you for the response. I would love to have some of that guidance
I can’t believe how spot on her posts match my W.
SteveLW,
One more thing. I started reading your thread in the newcomer section on DBing while living. You totally brought me back to Corinthians 13 and I appreciate it. This is a great guideline to ensure I protect myself and love my wife. Thank you for that post!
When is the right time to have conversations with a wayward wife.
Short answer : When she initiates.
Your main goal is to listen. Focus on every single word like you want to remember the whole conversation. Stay out of your head. Even more important, you want to understand her emotional state when she is talking. Which of the main six? Then try to figure out the sub level.
Look up "emotional feeling wheel". Most people do not deal with the "Scary" emotions like anger as easily as they do with the "Good" emotions like happy. You should be able to deal with all of them the same way. "You look happy", "You sound angry", "I bet you were frustrated" should all be easily said.
Create a "topic" in your head. Kids,Money,Work,Relationship,Christmas etc
If the topic is relationship, keep your needs and opinions to yourself. "I am not sure" "I have not thought about that" "I need time to process what you are telling me" are perfectly good responses. Control your emotions. IF you feel like they will get out of your control, end the convo before they control you. One of many ways to end : "Thanks for sharing, I have something I have to do" and leave.
Google "henry cloud"
I'll add, maybe not even when she initiates! Remember to be doing DBing well you need to be so busy that you don't have time to talk. "I have somewhere to be right now." No "sorry". No promise of a future discussion, just I have to be somewhere. Vague. Avoid telling her what you are doing or who are doing it with. Remember, she is firing you as her husband. She needs to start seeing what that looks like.
Glad you found the sticky helpful. We had had a rash of newbies when I wrote that who claimed that DBing felt unloving. It isn't! It is simply giving the WAS/WS exactly what they asked for.
Remember, if she initiates a discussion, you want to mainly just listen and validate her feelings. Right now R talks have little chance of helping you.
Hi FM
It’s right on the money, NOT uncommon for WS/WAS to put relationships with kids on a back burner. Please prepare yourself to be an Awesome #1 DAD for ur kids and little bit of mum. Your kids will need.
FM, remember what they say in Alanon- don't set a limit/boundary unless you are 100% prepared to back it up with an action.
PAUSE.
Work your alanon program like your life depends on it.
100% did some step 7 work today and heading to a meeting tonight, need to figure out what this GAL though lol. Everything I’ve done in the past was with her and our friends. Since all this, I am home every night with S6 unless out of town for work. Need some night time activities that don’t involve me in a bar
100% did some step 7 work today and heading to a meeting tonight, need to figure out what this GAL though lol. Everything I’ve done in the past was with her and our friends. Since all this, I am home every night with S6 unless out of town for work. Need some night time activities that don’t involve me in a bar
Yes that's a key. I've been sober for going on 29 years. Look for fun, focused things to do, but avoid things where drinking is common. Which is why I never recommend bowling! For me it was archery and the gun range. Also hanging out with friends that don't drink themselves. Get creative, reach out to old friends but also make new ones.