Action 5 - 12/09/22 04:15 AM
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 06:20 AM
Context tonight was we needed to be together to have a conversation with S’s treatment team. After the conversation I said see ya gotta go. She said where are you going? I said out with friends.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 09:00 AM
💪💪💪
Good man.
Good man.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
After the conversation I said see ya gotta go. She said where are you going? I said out with friends.
I think I remember in one of your threads that you suffer from some sort PTSD? Can you elaborate? I think that is why you are struggling with the concepts here. We have had guys on here with abandonment/PTSD issues and they tend to cling on with all their might which pushes the WW in further away.
Also can you add a signature like mine? Makes it easier for posters if they have a better understanding of your sitch.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 04:32 PM
Yes I am receiving intensive ptsd treatment for psychological injuries I sustained while performing my duties. I am at the stage of preparing for a return to work.
I am learning and working at (sometimes better and sometimes worse) resisting clinging behaviours
I am learning and working at (sometimes better and sometimes worse) resisting clinging behaviours
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 08:09 PM
Signature trial
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 08:26 PM
27 years is a good run my friend.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 08:43 PM
Perfect....well maybe add the month to BD 
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 11:12 PM
Yes LH it has been and I’m grateful to God and all his blessings.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 11:39 PM
During a conversation when we were discussing urgent needs of S, W said I can’t treat her like a child. I can’t behavior modify her to move back in with me. I replied that I am not trying to do anything like that and that I control myself I don’t control not her anyone else. She said you don’t need to think about her wanting our bed any more and that she could hire a truck and movers and come and get 1/2 of the stuff from our home or she could take me to court. She was being aggressive and I said I needed to go I had to concentrate on my driving. She hung up.
Re: Action 5 - 12/09/22 11:42 PM
During a conversation when we were discussing urgent needs of S, W said I can’t treat her like a child. I can’t behavior modify her to move back in with me. I replied that I am not trying to do anything like that and that I control myself I don’t control not her anyone else. She said you don’t need to think about her wanting our bed any more and that she could hire a truck and movers and come and get 1/2 of the stuff from our home or she could take me to court. She was being aggressive and I said I needed to go I had to concentrate on my driving. She hung up.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 12:01 AM
Your W is helping you by telling you that you can’t nice her back. No need to parrot back DB principles. You know you control you. She’s trying to bully you into giving her the bed. How do you face a bully you stand up to them. “Give me a list of what you want and I will think about it”. “I’m not giving you anything until I speak to my lawyer”.
You are going to have to start taking a stance rock or she will steamroll you.
You are going to have to start taking a stance rock or she will steamroll you.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 02:53 AM
Rockon,
I don't claim to know the specifics of your S's urgent needs, but is it absolutely necessary you have verbal conversations with W about it so often? Multiple vets have told you repeatedly throughout your 5 threads to stop engaging with your W. It seems like the majority of times you talk with her it doesn't end well.
Be honest w/yourself...was verbal conversation absolutely necessary or you might it be a crutch to stay engaged with W?
Why did you make this response? DB'ing principles say listen and validate, NOT disagree or argue.
You should go through your house, room by room, and document everything of value. Take your smartphone and video you walking through the entire house. Take individual pictures of anything significant. It won't take long, and hopefully you won't need to, but if she removes something major you now have evidence to prove it was a marital asset. Worse case you wasted 20 mins of your life. People think "oh, MY case won't escalate"...do not be a cautionary tale.
Did you want to go because she was being aggressive, or so you could concentrate on your driving? Because your comment seems a bit disingenuous and passive aggressive.
^Read LH's post several times...and listen to his advice.
I don't claim to know the specifics of your S's urgent needs, but is it absolutely necessary you have verbal conversations with W about it so often? Multiple vets have told you repeatedly throughout your 5 threads to stop engaging with your W. It seems like the majority of times you talk with her it doesn't end well.
Originally Posted by Rockon
During a conversation when we were discussing urgent needs of S
Originally Posted by Rockon
W said I can’t treat her like a child. I can’t behavior modify her to move back in with me. I replied that I am not trying to do anything like that and that I control myself I don’t control not her anyone else.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She said you don’t need to think about her wanting our bed any more and that she could hire a truck and movers and come and get 1/2 of the stuff from our home or she could take me to court.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She was being aggressive and I said I needed to go I had to concentrate on my driving. She hung up.
Originally Posted by LH19
Your W is helping you by telling you that you can’t nice her back. No need to parrot back DB principles. You know you control you. She’s trying to bully you into giving her the bed. How do you face a bully you stand up to them. “Give me a list of what you want and I will think about it”. “I’m not giving you anything until I speak to my lawyer”.
You are going to have to start taking a stance rock or she will steamroll you.
You are going to have to start taking a stance rock or she will steamroll you.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 05:52 AM
Yes I will
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 05:59 AM
BL,
Yes it is necessary at this stage to collaborate and conversation as much as we are. I hope that changes. I really want more space from W.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
W said I can’t treat her like a child. I can’t behavior modify her to move back in with me. I replied that I am not trying to do anything like that and that I control myself I don’t control not her anyone else.
Why did you make this response? DB'ing principles say listen and validate, NOT disagree or argue”
I actually did listen and validate and also clarified my intentions.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
She said you don’t need to think about her wanting our bed any more and that she could hire a truck and movers and come and get 1/2 of the stuff from our home or she could take me to court.
You should go through your house, room by room, and document everything of value. Take your smartphone and video you walking through the entire house. Take individual pictures of anything significant. It won't take long, and hopefully you won't need to, but if she removes something major you now have evidence to prove it was a marital asset. Worse case you wasted 20 mins of your life. People think "oh, MY case won't escalate"...do not be a cautionary tale”
Will do
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
She was being aggressive and I said I needed to go I had to concentrate on my driving. She hung up.
Did you want to go because she was being aggressive, or so you could concentrate on your driving? Because your comment seems a bit disingenuous and passive aggressive”
Ok point taken. It was both - I needed to take space for myself because i won’t engage with aggression and also I needed to stop the conversation to focus safely on driving.
Yes it is necessary at this stage to collaborate and conversation as much as we are. I hope that changes. I really want more space from W.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
W said I can’t treat her like a child. I can’t behavior modify her to move back in with me. I replied that I am not trying to do anything like that and that I control myself I don’t control not her anyone else.
Why did you make this response? DB'ing principles say listen and validate, NOT disagree or argue”
I actually did listen and validate and also clarified my intentions.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
She said you don’t need to think about her wanting our bed any more and that she could hire a truck and movers and come and get 1/2 of the stuff from our home or she could take me to court.
You should go through your house, room by room, and document everything of value. Take your smartphone and video you walking through the entire house. Take individual pictures of anything significant. It won't take long, and hopefully you won't need to, but if she removes something major you now have evidence to prove it was a marital asset. Worse case you wasted 20 mins of your life. People think "oh, MY case won't escalate"...do not be a cautionary tale”
Will do
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
She was being aggressive and I said I needed to go I had to concentrate on my driving. She hung up.
Did you want to go because she was being aggressive, or so you could concentrate on your driving? Because your comment seems a bit disingenuous and passive aggressive”
Ok point taken. It was both - I needed to take space for myself because i won’t engage with aggression and also I needed to stop the conversation to focus safely on driving.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 06:14 AM
Certainly these conversations are going places I don’t want to go. I don’t want to engage like this and I don’t want R talks at this time. I confess I am struggling and I am listening to what you are telling me but I am having a hard time implementing. And in my responses to you, I wonder if I come across defensive or cocky because that is not how I want to be and not what I want to convey to W.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 07:34 AM
Rock we I know you are struggling because I can feel it in your posts. You feel like you are losing your family and there is nothing you can do about it. It’s very destabilizing. You are acting out of fear which is never a good thing. It may help to write things down regarding what you’re afraid of if you divorce.
As for your W less is more right now. You have a major case of Nice Guy Syndrome which should be addressed at some point.
Your W is very manipulative and calculating and is making sure she gets her way and is not viewed as the bad person here. Don’t let her off the hook here.
Keep faking it until you make it because eventually you will be ok. This is not easy but things worth having in life are typically not. Lots of hard to do moving forward.
As for your W less is more right now. You have a major case of Nice Guy Syndrome which should be addressed at some point.
Your W is very manipulative and calculating and is making sure she gets her way and is not viewed as the bad person here. Don’t let her off the hook here.
Keep faking it until you make it because eventually you will be ok. This is not easy but things worth having in life are typically not. Lots of hard to do moving forward.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 08:37 AM
Reckon, you’re actually doing incredibly well.
It’s hard and you’re struggling atm because good DBing is hard and it’s the opposite of what she has trained and groomed you to be for so many years - a Mr Nice Guy who fears her.
Hold your chin up. I think you handled this very well.
Yes, document all your possessions ASAP and install wifi cameras in the house. Ask your lawyer about legality of changing locks if she continues to openly threaten taking stuff from the house without agreement.
You know why she’s lashing out? Because she’s learning she can’t manipulate and control you. This wasn’t a sh** interaction because you did the wrong thing, it was a sh*t interaction because she is starting to realise she can’t bully you. That’s why it’s hard, so don’t take it personally.
The better you DB, the more frustrated and angry she will be.
You know the easiest way to avoid this from happening - don’t answer the phone when she calls. Nothing is urgent enough for you to answer first time. Let it go to voice mail. On the 1 in a million chance it’s an emergency, she’ll keep ringing and will text as well.
You engage, you lose.
Next time:
1. Phone rings
2. Rockon lets it go to voice mail
3. An hour later, she tries again and you let it go to voicemail.
4. She texts and says “why aren’t you answering! I knew divorcing you was the right thing, you won’t even answer my calls. I need my mattress, you don’t own it, I’m going to come clean the house out with a truck.”
4. You wait 24 hours. Then you write back “We’ve already had the bed discussion. Thanks!”
5. You turn your phone off, go and watch a movie, go to a bar, or invite some mates over for a BBQ.
6. Know that she’s gonna lose her sh**. But don’t worry about it, this is about her, not you. Don’t take it on. If you expect crazy, you won’t be shocked 🤣
Keep it up Buddy 💪
It’s hard and you’re struggling atm because good DBing is hard and it’s the opposite of what she has trained and groomed you to be for so many years - a Mr Nice Guy who fears her.
Hold your chin up. I think you handled this very well.
Yes, document all your possessions ASAP and install wifi cameras in the house. Ask your lawyer about legality of changing locks if she continues to openly threaten taking stuff from the house without agreement.
You know why she’s lashing out? Because she’s learning she can’t manipulate and control you. This wasn’t a sh** interaction because you did the wrong thing, it was a sh*t interaction because she is starting to realise she can’t bully you. That’s why it’s hard, so don’t take it personally.
The better you DB, the more frustrated and angry she will be.
You know the easiest way to avoid this from happening - don’t answer the phone when she calls. Nothing is urgent enough for you to answer first time. Let it go to voice mail. On the 1 in a million chance it’s an emergency, she’ll keep ringing and will text as well.
You engage, you lose.
Next time:
1. Phone rings
2. Rockon lets it go to voice mail
3. An hour later, she tries again and you let it go to voicemail.
4. She texts and says “why aren’t you answering! I knew divorcing you was the right thing, you won’t even answer my calls. I need my mattress, you don’t own it, I’m going to come clean the house out with a truck.”
4. You wait 24 hours. Then you write back “We’ve already had the bed discussion. Thanks!”
5. You turn your phone off, go and watch a movie, go to a bar, or invite some mates over for a BBQ.
6. Know that she’s gonna lose her sh**. But don’t worry about it, this is about her, not you. Don’t take it on. If you expect crazy, you won’t be shocked 🤣
Keep it up Buddy 💪
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Kind18
Reckon, you’re actually doing incredibly well.
It’s hard and you’re struggling atm because good DBing is hard and it’s the opposite of what she has trained and groomed you to be for so many years - a Mr Nice Guy who fears her.
Hold your chin up. I think you handled this very well.
Yes, document all your possessions ASAP and install wifi cameras in the house. Ask your lawyer about legality of changing locks if she continues to openly threaten taking stuff from the house without agreement.
You know why she’s lashing out? Because she’s learning she can’t manipulate and control you. This wasn’t a sh** interaction because you did the wrong thing, it was a sh*t interaction because she is starting to realise she can’t bully you. That’s why it’s hard, so don’t take it personally.
The better you DB, the more frustrated and angry she will be.
You know the easiest way to avoid this from happening - don’t answer the phone when she calls. Nothing is urgent enough for you to answer first time. Let it go to voice mail. On the 1 in a million chance it’s an emergency, she’ll keep ringing and will text as well.
You engage, you lose.
Next time:
1. Phone rings
2. Rockon lets it go to voice mail
3. An hour later, she tries again and you let it go to voicemail.
4. She texts and says “why aren’t you answering! I knew divorcing you was the right thing, you won’t even answer my calls. I need my mattress, you don’t own it, I’m going to come clean the house out with a truck.”
4. You wait 24 hours. Then you write back “We’ve already had the bed discussion. Thanks!”
5. You turn your phone off, go and watch a movie, go to a bar, or invite some mates over for a BBQ.
6. Know that she’s gonna lose her sh**. But don’t worry about it, this is about her, not you. Don’t take it on. If you expect crazy, you won’t be shocked 🤣
Keep it up Buddy 💪
It’s hard and you’re struggling atm because good DBing is hard and it’s the opposite of what she has trained and groomed you to be for so many years - a Mr Nice Guy who fears her.
Hold your chin up. I think you handled this very well.
Yes, document all your possessions ASAP and install wifi cameras in the house. Ask your lawyer about legality of changing locks if she continues to openly threaten taking stuff from the house without agreement.
You know why she’s lashing out? Because she’s learning she can’t manipulate and control you. This wasn’t a sh** interaction because you did the wrong thing, it was a sh*t interaction because she is starting to realise she can’t bully you. That’s why it’s hard, so don’t take it personally.
The better you DB, the more frustrated and angry she will be.
You know the easiest way to avoid this from happening - don’t answer the phone when she calls. Nothing is urgent enough for you to answer first time. Let it go to voice mail. On the 1 in a million chance it’s an emergency, she’ll keep ringing and will text as well.
You engage, you lose.
Next time:
1. Phone rings
2. Rockon lets it go to voice mail
3. An hour later, she tries again and you let it go to voicemail.
4. She texts and says “why aren’t you answering! I knew divorcing you was the right thing, you won’t even answer my calls. I need my mattress, you don’t own it, I’m going to come clean the house out with a truck.”
4. You wait 24 hours. Then you write back “We’ve already had the bed discussion. Thanks!”
5. You turn your phone off, go and watch a movie, go to a bar, or invite some mates over for a BBQ.
6. Know that she’s gonna lose her sh**. But don’t worry about it, this is about her, not you. Don’t take it on. If you expect crazy, you won’t be shocked 🤣
Keep it up Buddy 💪
Turning phone to airplane mode or off is very very hard at first. But when you start conditioning yourself to do it, it is liberating..
I have kids, so its a bit hard to, as I would hate to miss an emergency call.
But, try it, airplane mode at night till you get up..
Baby steps.
Re: Action 5 - 12/10/22 05:39 PM
Thank you gentlemen I needed to read these messages. Onward today. Going out with a friend. Then will spend some time on my own working out and then journaling.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 05:29 AM
Read your text messages and emails at a time of your choosing. I learned this lesson when I made the mistake of reading an email from my X right before bedtime out on a hunting trip. Couldn't sleep and missed my hunt.
I have only had two urgent phone calls in my life. Even then, They could have waited.
I have only had two urgent phone calls in my life. Even then, They could have waited.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 04:37 PM
One of the hardest lessons for me was not jumping at the texts or phone calls, which I'd done for half a lifetime.
Letting them wait for a response is better for everyone.
Giving yourself a break is also better for everyone.
p.s. it's also important to give yourself a break if you mess up and answer/respond in real time. It's about progress.
Letting them wait for a response is better for everyone.
Giving yourself a break is also better for everyone.
p.s. it's also important to give yourself a break if you mess up and answer/respond in real time. It's about progress.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 04:59 PM
I’m trying to give lots of space and to let things simmer down. I also want to address and resolve our issues in a healthy way and not just ignore or sweep under the rug.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m trying to give lots of space and to let things dinner down. I also want to address and resolve our issues in a healthy way and not just ignore or sweep under the rug.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m trying to give lots of space and to let things *simmer* down. I also want to address and resolve our issues in a healthy way and not just ignore or sweep under the rug.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 06:54 PM
that's always the goal, but you may be the only one doing that and you may not get what you want. as soon as you fully accept that you have zero control over what she says or does, you'll be in a better spot, as weird as that sounds.
when they're raging it's never productive to engage. also worth remembering that they know all of your buttons, and do their best to push you into a response. you can always step back, hang up, remove yourself from an untenable situation.
Remember, we teach people how we want to be treated by what we do and do not accept.
when they're raging it's never productive to engage. also worth remembering that they know all of your buttons, and do their best to push you into a response. you can always step back, hang up, remove yourself from an untenable situation.
Remember, we teach people how we want to be treated by what we do and do not accept.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 09:33 PM
Yes butterfly this is all so very true and I have been shocked one time after another since BD. But now I suppose I am wiser and want to proceed cautiously, soberly and with discretion.
Re: Action 5 - 12/11/22 09:49 PM
Yes LH, I am resisting engaging. I have spent this weekend looking after myself, GAL, journaling some self reflection homework, connecting with good solid friends, reached out and encouraged a friend (young man). Exercised and looked after my home. Had a really great connection spending time with D this morning.listening to each other expressing care and honor. No badmouthing from me and yet being vulnerable and honest with what was appropriate.
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 01:48 AM
From BF:
“ 'd say that you did perfectly. You can always tell because they start to lose their minds even more when we stay calm and controlled. Some thoughts:
*Hold steady. When she starts escalating say the same thing every time: this is not productive and I'm not interested in continuing this discussion right now. Absolutely do not elaborate. The less said the better. A firm not going to do this now, and end the call, or walk away if you're in person.
THIS is good. I have used this in the past - before BD - when she would be aggressive escalated or insulting . And she didn’t like it.
*always act calm even if you're boiling up inside. you can melt down later when you're out of their sight/earshot.
*Do not allow yourself to get sucked into discussions you don't want to have.
* If it's something you would say to your kid for misbehaving, then it absolutely IS NOT something to say to your spouse.
Give me some situations and I'll try to give you an example of what I mean”
“ 'd say that you did perfectly. You can always tell because they start to lose their minds even more when we stay calm and controlled. Some thoughts:
*Hold steady. When she starts escalating say the same thing every time: this is not productive and I'm not interested in continuing this discussion right now. Absolutely do not elaborate. The less said the better. A firm not going to do this now, and end the call, or walk away if you're in person.
THIS is good. I have used this in the past - before BD - when she would be aggressive escalated or insulting . And she didn’t like it.
*always act calm even if you're boiling up inside. you can melt down later when you're out of their sight/earshot.
*Do not allow yourself to get sucked into discussions you don't want to have.
* If it's something you would say to your kid for misbehaving, then it absolutely IS NOT something to say to your spouse.
Give me some situations and I'll try to give you an example of what I mean”
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 02:29 AM
Ok the “do not allow yourself to get sucked into conversations you don’t want to have”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 03:00 AM
Had a good cry when I was alone yesterday and having another one now. These boards are a good place to take that as well as therapy, alone or together time with God (just had a good heart to heart with our retired Pastor I have have told you about).
Not being emotional or needy in front of W
Not being emotional or needy in front of W
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 04:49 AM
Rockon,
Totally normal and healthy to cry. This is a traumatic experience. Absolutely let it out. Great job doing so in the right venues...while alone, with pastor, on these boards...instead of in front of W.
Totally normal and healthy to cry. This is a traumatic experience. Absolutely let it out. Great job doing so in the right venues...while alone, with pastor, on these boards...instead of in front of W.
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ok the “do not allow yourself to get sucked into conversations you don’t want to have”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ok the “do not allow yourself to get sucked into conversations you don’t want to have”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
That keeps happening. I am trying to distance detach and disengage. I have been improving - going away was the BEST! But there is a lot that we need to connect on and then W brings up a topic that I don’t want to discuss, like her taking our bed. I don’t want to discuss our R. I want to be focused.
Goes back to the point above “Hold steady” and repeat the script if she escalates,
“This is not productive and I’m not interested in continuing this discussion right now.”
Read the validation thread. To me validating her feelings, making an excuse as to why I was busy and couldn't continue the discussion was extremely helpful. Luckily my WAW didn't want to discuss things very much, but the few times she did I would listen, validate, then end the conversation. That is why GAL is so important! The more you keep yourself busy the less opportunity there will be for those conversations you don't want ot have.
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 10:37 PM
Do you know what I sense from most of sitchs that keep floating between waters? I sense fear. We all navigated those waters. The fastest we put them behind the best those new horizons will shine.
Go and GAL Rockon
Respect.
Go and GAL Rockon
Respect.
Re: Action 5 - 12/12/22 11:34 PM
Keep going Rock! Appreciate all your posts!
Re: Action 5 - 12/13/22 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by neffer
Do you know what I sense from most of sitchs that keep floating between waters? I sense fear. We all navigated those waters. The fastest we put them behind the best those new horizons will shine.
Re: Action 5 - 12/13/22 09:23 PM
Yes GAL and facing fears. I have been letting her calls go to vm and waiting til there is something that can’t wait and when it works for me if there’s something to respond to.
So this morning W and I talked about something that couldn’t wait and I listened and validated well. And then without being rude I said i gotta go. Seemed to go quite well. In my therapy yesterday we worked on the ways I have grown in trying to slow down and take a thoughtful approach. Also putting time and focus into grieving/lamenting.
So this morning W and I talked about something that couldn’t wait and I listened and validated well. And then without being rude I said i gotta go. Seemed to go quite well. In my therapy yesterday we worked on the ways I have grown in trying to slow down and take a thoughtful approach. Also putting time and focus into grieving/lamenting.
Re: Action 5 - 12/13/22 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Yes GAL and facing fears. I have been letting her calls go to vm and waiting til there is something that can’t wait and when it works for me if there’s something to respond to.
So this morning W and I talked about something that couldn’t wait and I listened and validated well. And then without being rude I said i gotta go. Seemed to go quite well. In my therapy yesterday we worked on the ways I have grown in trying to slow down and take a thoughtful approach. Also putting time and focus into grieving/lamenting.
So this morning W and I talked about something that couldn’t wait and I listened and validated well. And then without being rude I said i gotta go. Seemed to go quite well. In my therapy yesterday we worked on the ways I have grown in trying to slow down and take a thoughtful approach. Also putting time and focus into grieving/lamenting.
Excellent progress Rockon. I’m really amazed at how quickly you’re picking this stuff up and growing as a person.
Keep working on responding slowly with the frontal cortex (the measured, calculated, reasoning part of your brain) and not responding with the amygdala (the flight or flight, emotion driven, reptile part of our brain).
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
So this morning W and I talked about something that couldn’t wait
Originally Posted by Rockon
and I listened and validated well. And then without being rude I said i gotta go. Seemed to go quite well.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 03:16 AM
Yeah BL42 raises a good point. What was it exactly that couldn’t wait?
Remember, she has to think she is losing you and the best way to do that is not be available quickly.
Remember, she has to think she is losing you and the best way to do that is not be available quickly.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 03:26 AM
BL - stuff I could talk about in person or in a dm but unavoidable, important and time sensitive.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 07:45 AM
In other words I’m not comfortable elaborating on here. Safe to say encountering a lot of pressure and stress in our family. WW is certainly contributing to that but she is also undergoing stress as well.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 11:18 AM
Rockon, my "I gotta go/run" statements to ex get easier and easier.
Stay strong. If its getting easier for me, you are far further ahead than I was in your sitch timeframe, it will be sooner than you expect. An epiphany will hit and the cloud cover will go away and the sun will shine down, easy peasy.
Stay strong. If its getting easier for me, you are far further ahead than I was in your sitch timeframe, it will be sooner than you expect. An epiphany will hit and the cloud cover will go away and the sun will shine down, easy peasy.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 01:01 PM
M40 it doesn’t feel like it that much but I believe you at least in part. It’s hard for me to imagine getting there sometimes.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 01:02 PM
Rockon, one of the traps we LBSs fall into is convincing ourselves of things that are not true. This gives an excuse to not practice good DBing. Most of us here did that early on our situations. Instinct and doing what comes intuitively will almost always be the wrong thing to do. So BL is dead on, likely what you have convinced yourself couldn't wait, probably could have waited. The worlds wouldn't have crumbled, the sky wouldn't have fallen if it had.
One thing that helped me once i got through the initial pain of the situation was to always weigh what I wanted or felt compelled to do, against whether or not it was a good DBing tactic. Didn't mean I always did the best thing from a DBing standpoint, but at least I knew I was breaking good DBing practice by doing it. And it did prevent me from doing things that would set me back most of the time.
Anyway, just something to consider.
One thing that helped me once i got through the initial pain of the situation was to always weigh what I wanted or felt compelled to do, against whether or not it was a good DBing tactic. Didn't mean I always did the best thing from a DBing standpoint, but at least I knew I was breaking good DBing practice by doing it. And it did prevent me from doing things that would set me back most of the time.
Anyway, just something to consider.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 05:33 PM
Ok yes Steve that’s helpful. Will ponder more.
Re: Action 5 - 12/14/22 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
M40 it doesn’t feel like it that much but I believe you at least in part. It’s hard for me to imagine getting there sometimes.
I know I was a blithering idiot waiting for texts, emails, calls, responses' from all of them too.
No matter what I tried to do to get her back, talk to her, etc etc did not work. She was done with me.. Then LH and many other started making me think differently. Its hard, but it works.
It hurts too.
Especially holidays. But, time is the best cure with sound advice, of which many with years of experience are giving you here.
Re: Action 5 - 12/16/22 04:12 AM
So W and I will both be spending time with D and granddaughter at the holidays including some overlapping time together. I’m really looking forward to being Dad and grampa and having great times celebrating. I am intending on not interfering with W’s time with them it’s not a competition. And while it’s not my responsibility to make her relationship with them, I can follow through on my hopes that they have positive relationships.
Re: Action 5 - 12/16/22 10:03 AM
Just curious Rock what this overlap looks like? You know what would make your W second guess her choices. You throwing an amazing holiday party that she is the only one not attending.
You are making it too easy to leave you.
You are making it too easy to leave you.
Re: Action 5 - 12/16/22 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
You know what would make your W second guess her choices. You throwing an amazing holiday party that she is the only one not attending.
Make wise choices.
Re: Action 5 - 12/20/22 05:14 AM
Ack these holidays tho. The stress and pressure have been getting to me. Today I just let go of everything (all the pressure) for a bit and just got into the wind storm at a cabin. Then connected with a good friend and now have reset somewhat. Spoke to a L and learned some about how things work in my state. Found out for example that during separation , legally, both partners would be expected to contribute evenly to the expenses of the marital home 50:50.
Been GAL, spending time with kids, socializing and hosting without W. W has really been engaging with family a lot more and getting into the Christmas spirit with them and reaching out to me. I’m busy.
Been GAL, spending time with kids, socializing and hosting without W. W has really been engaging with family a lot more and getting into the Christmas spirit with them and reaching out to me. I’m busy.
Re: Action 5 - 12/20/22 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
The stress and pressure have been getting to me.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Then connected with a good friend and now have reset somewhat.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Spoke to a L and learned some about how things work in my state. Found out for example that during separation , legally, both partners would be expected to contribute evenly to the expenses of the marital home 50:50.
So is your W kicking in her share? I bet the answer is no.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W has really been engaging with family a lot more and getting into the Christmas spirit with them and reaching out to me. I’m busy.
Rock I read your post on Gs thread and I have to say I am a little concerned about your well being. I think it might be good to talk about your fears on the board.
Re: Action 5 - 12/20/22 02:18 PM
RockOn,
I share LH's concerns about some of your recent comments. Was going to say something about it too independent of LH but he beat me to it.
Are you in IC? It's alright if you're not doing well, and certainly come here for support, but if you're in a really dark place you should seek out professional help too.
Originally Posted by LH19
Rock I read your post on Gs thread and I have to say I am a little concerned about your well being. I think it might be good to talk about your fears on the board.
Originally Posted by RockOn
Ginger, I have thought several times about checking myself into the ER just this week and getting some attention and a break, also have been tempted to say F it and just go with the flow and see where it takes me.
Originally Posted by RockOn
I also have had times (like Saturday night) when I was trying to make it from one minute to the next - felt like a dagger was somewhere between my diaphragm and heart.
Re: Action 5 - 12/20/22 08:13 PM
We need to take care for ourselves first Rock. Please!
Re: Action 5 - 12/20/22 08:58 PM
Hey there Rock, just want to echo everyone else here and give my support. Please keep talking about your pressures and stresses here and with a counselor. We have to externalize that [censored] rather than bottle things up. Keep taking care of yourself.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 12:29 AM
Thank you everyone. Yes I have been under duress and having stretches of pain, anger, pressure on and temptation but I have been getting through (basically have two friends over 25 years each (one our retired pastor on speed dial) went over to pastors yesterday and have coffee with he and his wife and unloaded - they’re really great for that - seen it all. And then having a lot of joy with family slow these days. Quality time with kids.
Yes I have IC and intensive therapy - tho on a break for the holidays. I do have crisis like I can access if need be.
Yes I have IC and intensive therapy - tho on a break for the holidays. I do have crisis like I can access if need be.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 01:22 AM
LH,
“ What type of stresses and pressure are you under?”
I feel pressure to hold it all together for everyone: kids, historically W
-stay positive, do the right thing, help, give, support - that’s what I feel a lot of the time and with these holidays being different than before I’m in emotional upheaval (it’s getting better I’m having better days) and trying to support everyone else. It has helped just to let go somewhat the last couple days and enjoy life.
Stresses are
-financial,
-kids going through their stuff,
-I’m still struggling with my emotions with regards to W ( I know that’s not news to you).
-S’s care needs
-gearing up for my return to work
“ So is your W kicking in her share? I bet the answer is no.”
Not her share no but she contributes some - much less than me each pay check. I do earn more than her.
“ What are these reach outs about? What are your responses?”
Sometimes she sends me memes and links, talks about the kids, asks me about me sometimes, tells me about her health concerns, asks me for help with stuff or if I want to do something with her.
My responses:
-delayed if at all and to the point. Not responding unless a question or needing a response. Validating when she is sharing something for me to validate. Did help her to get a medical device recommended by her dr. She is on my benefits as well.
I really appreciate your concern.
What am I afraid of? I suppose suffering of others especially untimely death. When I mention suffering I don’t mean discomfort that can lead to learning development and growth but rather tragedy. This is really related to my nervous system injury (ptsd).
“ What type of stresses and pressure are you under?”
I feel pressure to hold it all together for everyone: kids, historically W
-stay positive, do the right thing, help, give, support - that’s what I feel a lot of the time and with these holidays being different than before I’m in emotional upheaval (it’s getting better I’m having better days) and trying to support everyone else. It has helped just to let go somewhat the last couple days and enjoy life.
Stresses are
-financial,
-kids going through their stuff,
-I’m still struggling with my emotions with regards to W ( I know that’s not news to you).
-S’s care needs
-gearing up for my return to work
“ So is your W kicking in her share? I bet the answer is no.”
Not her share no but she contributes some - much less than me each pay check. I do earn more than her.
“ What are these reach outs about? What are your responses?”
Sometimes she sends me memes and links, talks about the kids, asks me about me sometimes, tells me about her health concerns, asks me for help with stuff or if I want to do something with her.
My responses:
-delayed if at all and to the point. Not responding unless a question or needing a response. Validating when she is sharing something for me to validate. Did help her to get a medical device recommended by her dr. She is on my benefits as well.
I really appreciate your concern.
What am I afraid of? I suppose suffering of others especially untimely death. When I mention suffering I don’t mean discomfort that can lead to learning development and growth but rather tragedy. This is really related to my nervous system injury (ptsd).
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 04:12 AM
Hi Rock,
I have been reading along not really knowing what to say. Just know that my thoughts are with you and I wish you well during this difficult time.
I have been reading along not really knowing what to say. Just know that my thoughts are with you and I wish you well during this difficult time.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 04:13 PM
Ok your thoughts please. I had bought some gifts for W for Christmas before (was a 180 to start early and I got her some good gifts for her birthday that she liked this year. Don’t know what to do about the Christmas gifts for her.
Years previous she basically told me everything she would like for Christmas and she has not done that this year. She did mention that she got me a gift I have been thinking of giving her gift(s) that communicate that I am listening to what she is saying and that I want her to be happy and have a good life. She has said she is all about excitement, adventure and joy. Also at her birthday party when I asked what she hopes for the upcoming year she said “hiking camping and travel” I want to avoid giving gifts or making gestures that add pressure, or serve to manipulate W in any way.
D has told me that she would like to give W some experiences to do together with D and with family
Also I have been giving myself breaks this holiday season and serving some folks in need including some first responders.
Years previous she basically told me everything she would like for Christmas and she has not done that this year. She did mention that she got me a gift I have been thinking of giving her gift(s) that communicate that I am listening to what she is saying and that I want her to be happy and have a good life. She has said she is all about excitement, adventure and joy. Also at her birthday party when I asked what she hopes for the upcoming year she said “hiking camping and travel” I want to avoid giving gifts or making gestures that add pressure, or serve to manipulate W in any way.
D has told me that she would like to give W some experiences to do together with D and with family
Also I have been giving myself breaks this holiday season and serving some folks in need including some first responders.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 04:29 PM
Rockon,
I get the sense from your post that you're hoping if only you can figure out exactly the right way to do Christmas gifts to give W maybe she'll see the light and want to R. That's extremely unlikely.
We've been telling you to limit your interactions and conversations with her, but you keep telling us reasons why you can't. We've been advising you not to pursue. Do you think buying her special Christmas presents is giving her space or putting more expectations and pressure on the situation?
How about giving her the gift of missing you entirely? Wouldn't that communicate you're listening to what she's saying and, more importantly, her actions?
I get the sense from your post that you're hoping if only you can figure out exactly the right way to do Christmas gifts to give W maybe she'll see the light and want to R. That's extremely unlikely.
We've been telling you to limit your interactions and conversations with her, but you keep telling us reasons why you can't. We've been advising you not to pursue. Do you think buying her special Christmas presents is giving her space or putting more expectations and pressure on the situation?
How about giving her the gift of missing you entirely? Wouldn't that communicate you're listening to what she's saying and, more importantly, her actions?
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 04:39 PM
RockOn,
How are your personal improvements coming along...
Did you finish that 12 week mens health program? What were the results? Are you continuing with it going forward?
What about the GAL? You were crushing it for awhile: surfing, hockey, tennis, working out, pub nights, salsa lessons, museums, library, learning to cook more delicious meals with nutritional value church good friendships....etc. Are you keeping up with it or did it fall off?
How are your personal improvements coming along...
Did you finish that 12 week mens health program? What were the results? Are you continuing with it going forward?
What about the GAL? You were crushing it for awhile: surfing, hockey, tennis, working out, pub nights, salsa lessons, museums, library, learning to cook more delicious meals with nutritional value church good friendships....etc. Are you keeping up with it or did it fall off?
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 04:58 PM
Just completed the men’s health program. Fitter, stronger, sleeping better, cooking good meals, tackling health risks with prevention and have made some new friends. Continuing now with next 6 months health goals.
Looking after my home - organized, inviting, comfortable - and completing home improvement projects.
Playing basketball and hockey. Thinking of a regular dance class or cooking class in the new year. Involved in church. Having some pub nights still. Reaching out to solid friends who help me with perspective. Also investing in my kids and also a couple of younger men to encourage them.
A break from intensive therapy for the holidays and stressors I have mentioned have been bumps in the road to navigate if I’m being honest. In reflection, I can be proud of how I am staying on track in my lane of my values and what’s important to me and doing what I need to do to get through it but it’s not really hard and I also encounter negative feelings about myself.
As far as the W gifts go I just don’t know what to do really. Don’t want to get too bogged down and make a mountain out of it just considering if it makes sense to withhold any of the gifts or correct course. When I pause and use my wise mind, I dont think there’s anything for me to say or do to “fix the problem” and make W want to R. It seems to me that she is confused and all over the place and has not said or done anything concrete to make me know she wants in.
So best for me to be a lighthouse concentrate on what I need to do and what I can control and be well.
Looking after my home - organized, inviting, comfortable - and completing home improvement projects.
Playing basketball and hockey. Thinking of a regular dance class or cooking class in the new year. Involved in church. Having some pub nights still. Reaching out to solid friends who help me with perspective. Also investing in my kids and also a couple of younger men to encourage them.
A break from intensive therapy for the holidays and stressors I have mentioned have been bumps in the road to navigate if I’m being honest. In reflection, I can be proud of how I am staying on track in my lane of my values and what’s important to me and doing what I need to do to get through it but it’s not really hard and I also encounter negative feelings about myself.
As far as the W gifts go I just don’t know what to do really. Don’t want to get too bogged down and make a mountain out of it just considering if it makes sense to withhold any of the gifts or correct course. When I pause and use my wise mind, I dont think there’s anything for me to say or do to “fix the problem” and make W want to R. It seems to me that she is confused and all over the place and has not said or done anything concrete to make me know she wants in.
So best for me to be a lighthouse concentrate on what I need to do and what I can control and be well.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 05:09 PM
RockOn,
Good stuff. Way to keep up with the exercise and GAL. Sometimes those things fall off when folks hit a down spot is it's important to stay on track. Turn that 12-week program into 6 months and then a year. Keep up with the sports, church activities, pub nights with friends. Be open to adding more like a dance or cooking class but also be wary not to pile on too much you get overwhelmed. Keep relying on your closest family and friends.
You're doing all the right things external to W, just need to focus on the detachment and giving space aspect of your R. You need to make her feel like she's losing you...that you're a man too valuable to put up with her actions.
I vote "no" on the special Christmas gifts, but that's just me.
Good stuff. Way to keep up with the exercise and GAL. Sometimes those things fall off when folks hit a down spot is it's important to stay on track. Turn that 12-week program into 6 months and then a year. Keep up with the sports, church activities, pub nights with friends. Be open to adding more like a dance or cooking class but also be wary not to pile on too much you get overwhelmed. Keep relying on your closest family and friends.
You're doing all the right things external to W, just need to focus on the detachment and giving space aspect of your R. You need to make her feel like she's losing you...that you're a man too valuable to put up with her actions.
I vote "no" on the special Christmas gifts, but that's just me.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
It seems to me that she is confused and all over the place and has not said or done anything concrete to make me know she wants in.
Doesn't sound like confusion to me at all.
NO PERSONAL GIFTS. If you have to get her anything get her a spa day with daughter or something along those lines.
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ok your thoughts please...Don’t know what to do about the Christmas gifts for her.
My vote is to take them and donate them to the local homeless shelter, or list them on Facebook marketplace. If you really want to give them to her, then wait two years.
She fired you as husband, correct?
Re: Action 5 - 12/21/22 08:55 PM
No gifts is also my vote
No fear. Respect.
No fear. Respect.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 05:45 AM
LH,
Ok well I’m confused at times but trying to take and give space. What seems to me to be her confusion is how hot and cold she can be with me, our family and her friends. Don’t know if there’s any kind of pattern to it really, and I’m not trying to diagnose. We have agreed not to talk about our R and I am trying not to engage so I’m happy about that. She has seemed be all over the place about what she wants at this stage but clear to me is that she does not want to be told what to do, she doesn’t want to be controlled, pressured or smothered. I am trying to have zero expectations and basically let her be and focus on myself.
Ok well I’m confused at times but trying to take and give space. What seems to me to be her confusion is how hot and cold she can be with me, our family and her friends. Don’t know if there’s any kind of pattern to it really, and I’m not trying to diagnose. We have agreed not to talk about our R and I am trying not to engage so I’m happy about that. She has seemed be all over the place about what she wants at this stage but clear to me is that she does not want to be told what to do, she doesn’t want to be controlled, pressured or smothered. I am trying to have zero expectations and basically let her be and focus on myself.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 06:00 AM
Ok I’d like your input on something else. W has mentioned several times in texts over the last several months that she is thinking of moving back home. Most of the time it’s clear she has in mind us two living in separate suites. We don't actually discuss the idea - she would just send texts that weren’t questions and weren’t things I wanted to discuss. And now thankfully we aren’t having R talks. I prefer actually that she stays at her moms. I don’t want my wife living in our house and dating other men. We are doing better here without her. I certainly am and I believe that kids are too. How do you recommend I handle this?
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 06:31 AM
Tell her that you have absolutely no whatsoever interest in living under the same roof under those circumstances. Since it is by text, you can respond with "Not Interested."
Spiral
Spiral
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 08:10 AM
If she comes home without the intent of reconciliation that will be the final mail in the coffin of your marriage and IHS will probably end up putting you in the hospital in your current state of mind.
So if I had to guess or make is not willing to commit and she’s tired of living at moms.
Remember boundaries. She can do whatever she wants but not within your circle. Check with a lawyer and find out where you legally stand.
So if I had to guess or make is not willing to commit and she’s tired of living at moms.
Remember boundaries. She can do whatever she wants but not within your circle. Check with a lawyer and find out where you legally stand.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
LH,
Ok well I’m confused at times but trying to take and give space. What seems to me to be her confusion is how hot and cold she can be with me, our family and her friends. Don’t know if there’s any kind of pattern to it really, and I’m not trying to diagnose. We have agreed not to talk about our R and I am trying not to engage so I’m happy about that. She has seemed be all over the place about what she wants at this stage but clear to me is that she does not want to be told what to do, she doesn’t want to be controlled, pressured or smothered. I am trying to have zero expectations and basically let her be and focus on myself.
Ok well I’m confused at times but trying to take and give space. What seems to me to be her confusion is how hot and cold she can be with me, our family and her friends. Don’t know if there’s any kind of pattern to it really, and I’m not trying to diagnose. We have agreed not to talk about our R and I am trying not to engage so I’m happy about that. She has seemed be all over the place about what she wants at this stage but clear to me is that she does not want to be told what to do, she doesn’t want to be controlled, pressured or smothered. I am trying to have zero expectations and basically let her be and focus on myself.
You use the word “trying” a lot. Like master Yoda says “ do or do not, there is no try”.
I feel bad for you Rock because you are a good guy with extreme anxiety issues and your W is using that against you to get what she wants. I do not like her.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 11:04 AM
yup, short, simple, direct, "Not interested." Perfect
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 12:12 PM
Agreed.
Don’t engage. Don’t say anything that invites further interaction.
She’d need to come back on her hands and knees begging for forgiveness before I even considered this.
The board is littered with stories of LBS who allowed their WS/WAS back too easily and regretted it.
“Not interested thanks.” Is perfect. No reasoning. No bargaining. No pressuring. Just cold hard, direct facts.
I’m glad you prefer her at her Mom’s. It means you’re starting to regain some self respect.
Don’t engage. Don’t say anything that invites further interaction.
She’d need to come back on her hands and knees begging for forgiveness before I even considered this.
The board is littered with stories of LBS who allowed their WS/WAS back too easily and regretted it.
“Not interested thanks.” Is perfect. No reasoning. No bargaining. No pressuring. Just cold hard, direct facts.
I’m glad you prefer her at her Mom’s. It means you’re starting to regain some self respect.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 01:32 PM
I will join the cacophony on this. "Not interested."
Simple. Firm. To the point.
Simple. Firm. To the point.
Re: Action 5 - 12/22/22 03:55 PM
Good Morning Rock
I too like the response “not interested”.
W is still baking. Give her time and space, enough to choke on. When she is ready you’ll know it. She will display true remorse.
I’m sure living at her Mom’s is growing thin and wearing on her (and her Mom). So be it. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
You’ve (or should have by now) spoken to a L and know what you can and cannot do regarding preventing her return to living under the same roof. There are many different jurisdictional rules and I do not know your locale’s take on this. And all the other factors, is she listed as an owner, and/or on the mortgage, still contributing to bills, kids, etc., and so on.
“Not interested” will encourage her look elsewhere and somewhat dissuade her. You know you do not want to be living with her as she currently is. Stay your course.
Your mind is powerful. It crafts your world view.
Your mind is always listening creating the reality you ask of it. Speak with purpose. Do, or do not.
Rock, W is all over the place. She wants to live apart. She want to live back at home. Truth is, she doesn’t know what she wants. She feels things. And feelings (say it with me
) are fleeting. And so will her wants be fleeting and ever-changing until she traverses her path and resolves whatever is troubling her.
Focus on you, and let her walk her path.
I agree with the other posters and their wise counsel. Do not let W gaslight you. And I’ll add in a caution/warning for you. People in crisis, or emotionally driven, will utilize any and all means to lessen their pain. Projection and blame being high on the list, next to the obvious running from themselves. These folks often will use the legal system to their misguided ends. And I mean use, in the ugliest sense. Frivolous law suits, false accusations, and threats of police involvement being a few. The last one I could see W leveraging against you regarding the home.
My W utilize the threat of police action against me. And on another occasion made false accusations against me to the government. Such are the actions and behaviours of the emotionally troubled.
Christmas and other special days will stir our spouse’s feelings. (And our’s) It is quite common for these lost souls to poke their heads out and peer homeward. Do not alter your course based upon a few weeks of “positive-looking” confusion from W.
I’d recommend no Christmas gift for W. If you must do something, a plain generic card. I believe it best for you, and your situation. As counterintuitive as that likely sounds.
Stay strong Rock.
D
I too like the response “not interested”.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She has seemed be all over the place about what she wants at this stage but clear to me is that she does not want to be told what to do, she doesn’t want to be controlled, pressured or smothered. I am trying to have zero expectations and basically let her be and focus on myself.
W is still baking. Give her time and space, enough to choke on. When she is ready you’ll know it. She will display true remorse.
I’m sure living at her Mom’s is growing thin and wearing on her (and her Mom). So be it. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
You’ve (or should have by now) spoken to a L and know what you can and cannot do regarding preventing her return to living under the same roof. There are many different jurisdictional rules and I do not know your locale’s take on this. And all the other factors, is she listed as an owner, and/or on the mortgage, still contributing to bills, kids, etc., and so on.
“Not interested” will encourage her look elsewhere and somewhat dissuade her. You know you do not want to be living with her as she currently is. Stay your course.
Originally Posted by LH19
You use the word “trying” a lot. Like master Yoda says “ do or do not, there is no try”.
Your mind is powerful. It crafts your world view.
Your mind is always listening creating the reality you ask of it. Speak with purpose. Do, or do not.
Quote
We have agreed not to talk about our R and I am trying not to engage doing just that, so I’m happy about that with my resolve.
Rock, W is all over the place. She wants to live apart. She want to live back at home. Truth is, she doesn’t know what she wants. She feels things. And feelings (say it with me
) are fleeting. And so will her wants be fleeting and ever-changing until she traverses her path and resolves whatever is troubling her.Focus on you, and let her walk her path.
I agree with the other posters and their wise counsel. Do not let W gaslight you. And I’ll add in a caution/warning for you. People in crisis, or emotionally driven, will utilize any and all means to lessen their pain. Projection and blame being high on the list, next to the obvious running from themselves. These folks often will use the legal system to their misguided ends. And I mean use, in the ugliest sense. Frivolous law suits, false accusations, and threats of police involvement being a few. The last one I could see W leveraging against you regarding the home.
My W utilize the threat of police action against me. And on another occasion made false accusations against me to the government. Such are the actions and behaviours of the emotionally troubled.
Christmas and other special days will stir our spouse’s feelings. (And our’s) It is quite common for these lost souls to poke their heads out and peer homeward. Do not alter your course based upon a few weeks of “positive-looking” confusion from W.
I’d recommend no Christmas gift for W. If you must do something, a plain generic card. I believe it best for you, and your situation. As counterintuitive as that likely sounds.
Stay strong Rock.
D
Re: Action 5 - 12/23/22 02:31 AM
Thank you D and everyone. Really taking all this to heart and appreciate your thoughtful responses.
Treading carefully with strength, resolve and quiet confidence. I’m wish I could host you all at a pub or around a fire at the bowling lanes, have a blast.
Treading carefully with strength, resolve and quiet confidence. I’m wish I could host you all at a pub or around a fire at the bowling lanes, have a blast.
Re: Action 5 - 12/23/22 05:34 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m wish I could host you all at a pub or around a fire at the bowling lanes, have a blast.
When you learn that everyone else out there is hurting or has been hurt in the past, it makes life much easier to go out an just enjoy others for who they are.
Re: Action 5 - 12/24/22 08:05 AM
Been having great family times and also serving some less fortunate folks has brought a lift to my mood. Was out at the mall and ran into one of W’s friends who I don’t know very well at all. Said hello and was about to move on when she told me W’s OM might be breaking up with her. “Whatever,” I said, and did move on right then. I don’t even know how that friend knew that I know about A. I don’t have any connection with her whatsoever outside of W and even so it’s very superficial.
On to focusing on myself. W has been continuing to reach out to me lots about holidays, etc. hinting that I could spend extra time with her at her moms (rather not but no response was required). Haven’t had any need to respond.
On to focusing on myself. W has been continuing to reach out to me lots about holidays, etc. hinting that I could spend extra time with her at her moms (rather not but no response was required). Haven’t had any need to respond.
Re: Action 5 - 12/24/22 08:43 AM
Good! Well done Rockon.
Read LH19’s second post on this page (page 8) over …. and over …. and over again.
Unless it’s a direct question about the kids, radio silence.
Read LH19’s second post on this page (page 8) over …. and over …. and over again.
Unless it’s a direct question about the kids, radio silence.
Re: Action 5 - 12/24/22 08:59 AM
What kind of f’d up world do we live in when a woman you barely know feels comfortable telling you that about the affair? Zero respect!
Re: Action 5 - 12/24/22 03:53 PM
Good Morning Rock
Good for you not engaging with the gossip gal. She may have been trying to pass on well-intentioned information. She may have been trying to ascertain your position/resolve so she could report back to her friend W. Or countless other possible scenarios. No matter. And you did fine.
That interactions harkens back to W’s the cat’s out of the bag conversation. Her prompting you, was likely she’d already let loose the cat; and if not, was her prompting herself to do so. It’s not about you; W’s stuff and her path is about her.
My W was a rare one and basically right out of the gate told the world of her affair. She shamelessly flaunted her new man around, taking him to our kids’ music festivals, attending his son’s volleyball games, and so on. Her smugness and absolute assuredness of her choice was sickening to witness.
Most keep their affair more secret. Even taking it underground when it starts to become exposed. Telling others, bring an affair out to the open, is usually an attempt to legitimize the relationship. And usually occurs when there is trouble in paradise. Ah, the efforts required for maintaining relationships built upon lies and deceit are truly a failing return on investment.
If W and OM’s relationship is starting to crumble. Do not interfere. No manipulation. Their R needs to die by it’s own hand. Not your’s!
And I’d suspect such a R would have several dying gasps before expiring. No need for you to go looking to watch that train wreck, plenty of information will find its way to you. As you wisely said, “on to focusing on myself”.
By the way, going on six years now, my XW is still with OM. Her smugness is gone. Her absolute assured outlook is gone. She is a shell of who she once was - physically, emotionally, and spiritually. She burnt and destroyed so many bridges at bomb drop. She went full on scored earth when she left. These many years later, she has started to rebuild a bit with the kids. Sort of. It’s a rocky start as you’d suspect.
Excellent!
Merry Christmas Rock
May you and your’s have peace and blessings.
D
Good for you not engaging with the gossip gal. She may have been trying to pass on well-intentioned information. She may have been trying to ascertain your position/resolve so she could report back to her friend W. Or countless other possible scenarios. No matter. And you did fine.
That interactions harkens back to W’s the cat’s out of the bag conversation. Her prompting you, was likely she’d already let loose the cat; and if not, was her prompting herself to do so. It’s not about you; W’s stuff and her path is about her.
My W was a rare one and basically right out of the gate told the world of her affair. She shamelessly flaunted her new man around, taking him to our kids’ music festivals, attending his son’s volleyball games, and so on. Her smugness and absolute assuredness of her choice was sickening to witness.
Most keep their affair more secret. Even taking it underground when it starts to become exposed. Telling others, bring an affair out to the open, is usually an attempt to legitimize the relationship. And usually occurs when there is trouble in paradise. Ah, the efforts required for maintaining relationships built upon lies and deceit are truly a failing return on investment.
If W and OM’s relationship is starting to crumble. Do not interfere. No manipulation. Their R needs to die by it’s own hand. Not your’s!
And I’d suspect such a R would have several dying gasps before expiring. No need for you to go looking to watch that train wreck, plenty of information will find its way to you. As you wisely said, “on to focusing on myself”.
By the way, going on six years now, my XW is still with OM. Her smugness is gone. Her absolute assured outlook is gone. She is a shell of who she once was - physically, emotionally, and spiritually. She burnt and destroyed so many bridges at bomb drop. She went full on scored earth when she left. These many years later, she has started to rebuild a bit with the kids. Sort of. It’s a rocky start as you’d suspect.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Been having great family times and also serving some less fortunate folks has brought a lift to my mood.
Excellent!
Merry Christmas Rock
May you and your’s have peace and blessings.
D
Re: Action 5 - 12/25/22 07:35 AM
So holidays are happening as we speak and I want to update all of you and let you know where I’m at.
I’m good! My kids are here at my place watching movies playing cards eating sweets and laughing and loving each other and making me proud and happy with a full cup! I’ve got tremendous friends who are there for me like I had no idea at BD! I am healthy and happy and I really like myself.
There has been quite a bit of occasions lately when I have been at the same gatherings/events as W of late: concerts, granddaughters birthday, church (W came to church for the first time since BD) etc.
On granddaughter’s birthday, W’s car broke down and I agreed to drive her. I was friendly and stayed within myself. W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently. Tonight over there was a bit of everything: fun, meaningful, kinda melodramatic and boring. I’m good with how I handled myself as a gentleman. As I drove home with the kids after, we all were happy together and they expressed their love for me. Over there, W and MIL are not very happy to be honest. Happy left in my truck kinda early to really have a great Christmas Eve here.
I’m a man W would be a fool to leave.
I believe it’s time to accelerate and reinforce my DB.
I’m good! My kids are here at my place watching movies playing cards eating sweets and laughing and loving each other and making me proud and happy with a full cup! I’ve got tremendous friends who are there for me like I had no idea at BD! I am healthy and happy and I really like myself.
There has been quite a bit of occasions lately when I have been at the same gatherings/events as W of late: concerts, granddaughters birthday, church (W came to church for the first time since BD) etc.
On granddaughter’s birthday, W’s car broke down and I agreed to drive her. I was friendly and stayed within myself. W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently. Tonight over there was a bit of everything: fun, meaningful, kinda melodramatic and boring. I’m good with how I handled myself as a gentleman. As I drove home with the kids after, we all were happy together and they expressed their love for me. Over there, W and MIL are not very happy to be honest. Happy left in my truck kinda early to really have a great Christmas Eve here.
I’m a man W would be a fool to leave.
I believe it’s time to accelerate and reinforce my DB.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I believe it’s time to accelerate and reinforce my DB.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 01:29 AM
Hey Rock I’m glad you had a good time with your kids on Christmas Eve. Yeah I was pretty sure you were going to go to her moms and of course you picked her up when her car broke down. That’s what nice guys do. As far as future talk every time you engage you lose.
Hope you and your family had a great Christmas.
Hope you and your family had a great Christmas.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 03:50 AM
Rockon,
Good answer. Outwardly displaying indifference, even if you didn't feel it inside.
Word gets out. You'd be surprised at what people know without you mentioning anything. Especially in your care W seemed eager to tell people.
Good stuff Rockon. Nothing like the love of your children to make you feel at peace with the world. Glad you have such strong friend support network.
I guess I'm with LH here. You did well telling W's friend "whatever" at potential OM news, but this...not so much. Many vets here since you started posting have been urging you to REMOVE your support, to make her feel what she's losing. Remember when you entertained the possibility of picking her up from the airport after she visited OM? What did we tell you then? How was bailing her out of her car situation align with removing support? How do you even know her car broke down? Are we advising you not to answer her calls? And be slow and limited in response to her texts/emails?
Care to be more specific? What future family and couple plans is she expressing specifically?
Obviously I'm not in your shoes with special needs son, but like I mentioned before when you were talking to W so much...it seems like a bit of an excuse to stay engaged with W. How does his special needs demand you spend Christmas with your cheating W and her MIL? Seems completely unrelated, but that's just me.
Nice to be the one going home with your kids for Christmas Eve, and not the one living away from them. Take pride in that, and enjoy your time with them.
Maybe, maybe not. Don't worry about mind reading.
Are you? I think you're a nice well intentioned guy, but also have real work to do. What's your action plan?
Sounds generic...what specifically?
Merry Christmas Rockon. I'm glad you're spending it with your children, and hope you had a good one. We're all wishing the best for you and your situation.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Said hello and was about to move on when she told me W’s OM might be breaking up with her. “Whatever,” I said, and did move on right then.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I don’t even know how that friend knew that I know about A. I don’t have any connection with her whatsoever outside of W and even so it’s very superficial.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m good! My kids are here at my place watching movies playing cards eating sweets and laughing and loving each other and making me proud and happy with a full cup! I’ve got tremendous friends who are there for me like I had no idea at BD! I am healthy and happy and I really like myself.
Originally Posted by Rockon
On granddaughter’s birthday, W’s car broke down and I agreed to drive her.
Originally Posted by LH19
of course you picked her up when her car broke down. That’s what nice guys do. As far as future talk every time you engage you lose.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yeah I was pretty sure you were going to go to her moms
Originally Posted by Rockon
As I drove home with the kids after, we all were happy together and they expressed their love for me....Happy left in my truck kinda early to really have a great Christmas Eve here.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Over there, W and MIL are not very happy to be honest.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m a man W would be a fool to leave.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I believe it’s time to accelerate and reinforce my DB.
Merry Christmas Rockon. I'm glad you're spending it with your children, and hope you had a good one. We're all wishing the best for you and your situation.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 08:49 PM
R2C,
Yes will need to thoughtfully construct one.
Yes will need to thoughtfully construct one.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 08:52 PM
LH,
Yes I read you. We have been having a great Christmas and I’m very happy and thankful.
I appreciate you and am thankful for you kind input and care.
Yes I read you. We have been having a great Christmas and I’m very happy and thankful.
I appreciate you and am thankful for you kind input and care.
Re: Action 5 - 12/26/22 08:55 PM
BL,
For sure I have a lot of work to do. The gravity and seriousness are not lost on me. I so appreciate your honest thoughtful input.
For sure I have a lot of work to do. The gravity and seriousness are not lost on me. I so appreciate your honest thoughtful input.
Re: Action 5 - 12/27/22 01:25 PM
Rockon,
No offense, but these replies seem a bit generic, vague, and lazy. You say thanks and you'll have to think on it and you understand the importance, but people are asking you specific questions which you're glossing over and not answering. For example:
Care to be more specific? What future family and couple plans is she expressing specifically?
Are you going to start listening to the advice given? Don't want to come off as harsh - we all want the best for you - but it feels like you're at times only half-heartedly listening and generically responding and not digging deep into this.
Originally Posted by Rockon
R2C, Yes will need to thoughtfully construct one.
Originally Posted by Rockon
LH, Yes I read you. We have been having a great Christmas and I’m very happy and thankful.
I appreciate you and am thankful for you kind input and care.
I appreciate you and am thankful for you kind input and care.
Originally Posted by Rockon
BL, For sure I have a lot of work to do. The gravity and seriousness are not lost on me. I so appreciate your honest thoughtful input.
Originally Posted by BL42
How was bailing her out of her car situation align with removing support? How do you even know her car broke down? Are we advising you not to answer her calls? And be slow and limited in response to her texts/emails?
Originally Posted by Rockon
Originally Posted by BL42
W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
Originally Posted by BL42
like I mentioned before when you were talking to W so much...it seems like a bit of an excuse to stay engaged with W. How does his special needs demand you spend Christmas with your cheating W and her MIL?
Are you going to start listening to the advice given? Don't want to come off as harsh - we all want the best for you - but it feels like you're at times only half-heartedly listening and generically responding and not digging deep into this.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 02:57 AM
Definitely want to dig deep and be thorough and do the work. For me, one of the most pressing ways is for me act on this is to grieve what has been lost and what is broken. I am going there. It’s not pleasant but i see the importance. Just today was processing with D some of my tears
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Definitely want to dig deep and be thorough and do the work. For me, one of the most pressing ways is for me act on this is to grieve what has been lost and what is broken. I am going there. It’s not pleasant but i see the importance. Just today was processing with D some of my tears
The bleeding is the buildup of resentment and the loss of attraction. It is important for you to jump start your behavior otherwise everything will bleed out.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 04:30 PM
L,
I have not been engaging in future talk with W.
I have not been engaging in future talk with W.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 04:59 PM
BL,
In response to your post:
“ How was bailing her out of her car situation align with removing support? How do you even know her car broke down? Are we advising you not to answer her calls? And be slow and limited in response to her texts/emails?”
I see that is does not. I didn’t know at the time for certain that her car actually broke down (has since been confirmed), but I chose to believe her about it.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
Care to be more specific? What future family and couple plans is she expressing specifically”
W has been engaging much more in family life and bringing up ideas for future family/extended fam/shared friend connections. She had been mostly disconnected from our whole family from BD up until I went away. W was very wayward, acting very single and childless. Three of our kids seem guarded in response -eldest son remains estranged from his mom since BD - and youngest S seems to just be soaking up family love. W has just come back to church and has started to engage more with solid long time close friends of our M. I have decided not to draw conclusions or read further meaning into her actions but rather be on observer and stay in my lane.
“ I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yeah I was pretty sure you were going to go to her moms
Obviously I'm not in your shoes with special needs son, but like I mentioned before when you were talking to W so much...it seems like a bit of an excuse to stay engaged with W. How does his special needs demand you spend Christmas with your cheating W and her MIL? Seems completely unrelated, but that's just me”
This is difficult for me to respond to in this forum. I am processing and addressing these themes in IC and with close friends. Seeing S in person around family at MIL’s, he made the night better, he brought joy and peace and love.
I understand that I am not in a M currently it does not exist. I am married but I can’t act as her husband. So removing myself and my support from her sounds logical. Being her friend doesn’t fit - she is not acting as a friend. We do have children together - including significant special needs, so that is an area to do well as a dad on my own.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m a man W would be a fool to leave.
Are you? I think you're a nice well intentioned guy, but also have real work to do. What's your action plan?”
I agree with you on this. I know I have real work to do and I need to create and follow through on a sound action plan.
In response to your post:
“ How was bailing her out of her car situation align with removing support? How do you even know her car broke down? Are we advising you not to answer her calls? And be slow and limited in response to her texts/emails?”
I see that is does not. I didn’t know at the time for certain that her car actually broke down (has since been confirmed), but I chose to believe her about it.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
Care to be more specific? What future family and couple plans is she expressing specifically”
W has been engaging much more in family life and bringing up ideas for future family/extended fam/shared friend connections. She had been mostly disconnected from our whole family from BD up until I went away. W was very wayward, acting very single and childless. Three of our kids seem guarded in response -eldest son remains estranged from his mom since BD - and youngest S seems to just be soaking up family love. W has just come back to church and has started to engage more with solid long time close friends of our M. I have decided not to draw conclusions or read further meaning into her actions but rather be on observer and stay in my lane.
“ I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yeah I was pretty sure you were going to go to her moms
Obviously I'm not in your shoes with special needs son, but like I mentioned before when you were talking to W so much...it seems like a bit of an excuse to stay engaged with W. How does his special needs demand you spend Christmas with your cheating W and her MIL? Seems completely unrelated, but that's just me”
This is difficult for me to respond to in this forum. I am processing and addressing these themes in IC and with close friends. Seeing S in person around family at MIL’s, he made the night better, he brought joy and peace and love.
I understand that I am not in a M currently it does not exist. I am married but I can’t act as her husband. So removing myself and my support from her sounds logical. Being her friend doesn’t fit - she is not acting as a friend. We do have children together - including significant special needs, so that is an area to do well as a dad on my own.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
I’m a man W would be a fool to leave.
Are you? I think you're a nice well intentioned guy, but also have real work to do. What's your action plan?”
I agree with you on this. I know I have real work to do and I need to create and follow through on a sound action plan.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 05:07 PM
BL,
Very good points. I am being thoughtful and measured in my decisions and some of them I am not sure about (eg Christmas Eve), but I am making my choices believing they are the best option with the understanding I have at the time. I will work more in IC also on solutions.
My intentions with my responses to this group are to acknowledge and do my best to honestly respond even if at first it is at a surface level. I am someone who goes away and reflects and seeks to gain further learning upon going deeper.
Very good points. I am being thoughtful and measured in my decisions and some of them I am not sure about (eg Christmas Eve), but I am making my choices believing they are the best option with the understanding I have at the time. I will work more in IC also on solutions.
My intentions with my responses to this group are to acknowledge and do my best to honestly respond even if at first it is at a surface level. I am someone who goes away and reflects and seeks to gain further learning upon going deeper.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 05:18 PM
C and I discussed how W has been acting like a toddler or adolescent going wild and free. I need to be a lighthouse and have the focus on myself, my home, family, life and values.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 07:35 PM
Rockon,
I see that is does not. I didn’t know at the time for certain that her car actually broke down (has since been confirmed), but I chose to believe her about it.Maybe I'm missing something, but this is still as clear as mud to me. Your responses come off to me as very vague, philosophical, and non-direct. How exactly did she communicate with you regarding the car/ride situation? Did she call you, text you, use a kid as an intermediary, show up at your house door? And, how did you engage? Did you answer her call right away, let it go to voicemail and call back, text back, email back...etc.
Care to be more specific? What future family and couple plans is she expressing specifically”W has been engaging much more in family life and bringing up ideas for future family/extended fam/shared friend connections.What does "engaging more in family life" mean? Is it limited to the kids, or engaging with you directly? Is it coming over for family dinners, planning a family vacation together...etc.? Has she asked to move back? What specifically is she saying and doing? And what specifically is your response and what are you allowing?
Good! ...if you're being honest with yourself. Any conclusions you draw at this point are more likely to be wrong than right, for two reasons: 1) she probably has no idea what she wants, and it'll change day by day if not hour by hour, and 2) you WANT to R so you'd be projecting your conclusions based on your desire.
You do you. If you don't feel comfortable sharing the details of your special needs son here online where anyone can read it, that's completely understandable. IC is certainly a great place to vent and vet your feelings and actions. Just please make sure you're being honest with yourself. I fear you're not, and you're using it as an excuse to engage with her.
You keep saying you need to make an action plan. You've said it several times over a period of time. Maybe it's just time to take action instead of intending to create a plan.
Rockon - Not trying to sound too harsh...just being direct out of love so you confront the situation and be honest with yourself and get the best result you can out of a difficult situation. Wishing you the best over this Christmas season.
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Rockon
How was bailing her out of her car situation align with removing support? How do you even know her car broke down? Are we advising you not to answer her calls? And be slow and limited in response to her texts/emails?
Originally Posted by Rockon
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Rockon
W shared with me lots of things on the drive about her and I listened and validated and didn’t try to fix anything. W has been expressing lots of future family and couple plans with me and I’m non committal.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I have decided not to draw conclusions or read further meaning into her actions but rather be on observer and stay in my lane.
Originally Posted by Rockon
“ I decided to go to her moms for Christmas Eve to support special needs I have mentioned before. It’s what I decided and I believe it was the right choice. If the support wasn’t necessary, I might have chosen differently.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yeah I was pretty sure you were going to go to her moms
Originally Posted by BL42
Obviously I'm not in your shoes with special needs son, but like I mentioned before when you were talking to W so much...it seems like a bit of an excuse to stay engaged with W. How does his special needs demand you spend Christmas with your cheating W and her MIL? Seems completely unrelated, but that's just me”
Originally Posted by Rockon
This is difficult for me to respond to in this forum. I am processing and addressing these themes in IC and with close friends. Seeing S in person around family at MIL’s, he made the night better, he brought joy and peace and love.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I know I have real work to do and I need to create and follow through on a sound action plan.
Rockon - Not trying to sound too harsh...just being direct out of love so you confront the situation and be honest with yourself and get the best result you can out of a difficult situation. Wishing you the best over this Christmas season.
Re: Action 5 - 12/28/22 08:15 PM
Thank you BL.
W reached out to me many times by text and phone calls about her transportation needs (car break down) ahead of the event. I was actually turning my phone off (discomforting 180 for me but a way to disconnect disengage and not react to W - I also have turned off sounds and notifications for her text messages and changed my ring tones because I was having a stress response from my reactions to her contacting me). Eventually I responded when there was a direct question and she asked me for help so that she could participate in person to celebrate together. I decided that I could handle that and that it was meaningful for D and GD and agreed.
It was interesting because she had said that she wasn’t planning to go until recently. She felt she wouldn’t be able to handle it - too stressful. And I just carried on with my personal plans to attend. This is an example of W engaging more and more with family. She had told me that D wasn’t into Christmas this year - not true - and seemed to be just all about herself, but made an apparent shift and got into it. W did events with our kids - some that I was at as well (concerts, parties). Concerning others, I had plans and was busy - didn’t want to be too available to W and needed space. W also did an event with her M and my M and sister.
I am doing my very best with support and variable measures of success to have no expectations of WW and am viewing my functional connection to her as her brother in Christ (I am a follower of Christ and this is my most important identity) rather than friend, partner or spouse at this time. I am married I am her husband and I take that very seriously. I’m not single and I am not free to date nor do I want to. But I am enjoying my time and space.
This has been really difficult for me to reconcile because of our history, my feelings and care and also the seriousness of my vows, but with IC I have come to see that the call of Christ-like love towards fellow human beings and in particular or brothers and sisters in the Lord is not an easy road. But He is giving me what I need. When I step out of that and am tempted to have a friendship or partnership with her, I suffer and it’s way off line.
She has not asked to move back (and I’m considering saying “not interested” as suggested here). Though she did propose (not ask) that I move out of our BR into our suite and she move in with D. I said I don’t like that and I'm not planning to move out of our BR. Then she said “I think I want our bed over at my mom’s”. I replied that I have to think about that.
Was helping her when her car broke down “nice”? Or the wrong decision? I honestly don’t know. I have been doing a lot of reflection upon these ideas - reading, journaling, discussing in IC and tight circle of friends. I need to take responsibility and my power back to change the dynamic in my relationship with W, eventual R or not. I need to keep growing, healing and changing. I am assertive, kind, strong, patient and humble and I need to be solid and consistent and not be “nice” or manipulative or passive aggressive.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
I have decided not to draw conclusions or read further meaning into her actions but rather be on observer and stay in my lane.
Good! ...if you're being honest with yourself. Any conclusions you draw at this point are more likely to be wrong than right, for two reasons: 1) she probably has no idea what she wants, and it'll change day by day if not hour by hour, and 2) you WANT to R so you'd be projecting your conclusions based on your desire”
I am working hard at being honest with myself and you are right on target there BL.
“ You keep saying you need to make an action plan. You've said it several times over a period of time. Maybe it's just time to take action instead of intending to create a plan.”
Yes
Thank you sincerely with respect.
W reached out to me many times by text and phone calls about her transportation needs (car break down) ahead of the event. I was actually turning my phone off (discomforting 180 for me but a way to disconnect disengage and not react to W - I also have turned off sounds and notifications for her text messages and changed my ring tones because I was having a stress response from my reactions to her contacting me). Eventually I responded when there was a direct question and she asked me for help so that she could participate in person to celebrate together. I decided that I could handle that and that it was meaningful for D and GD and agreed.
It was interesting because she had said that she wasn’t planning to go until recently. She felt she wouldn’t be able to handle it - too stressful. And I just carried on with my personal plans to attend. This is an example of W engaging more and more with family. She had told me that D wasn’t into Christmas this year - not true - and seemed to be just all about herself, but made an apparent shift and got into it. W did events with our kids - some that I was at as well (concerts, parties). Concerning others, I had plans and was busy - didn’t want to be too available to W and needed space. W also did an event with her M and my M and sister.
I am doing my very best with support and variable measures of success to have no expectations of WW and am viewing my functional connection to her as her brother in Christ (I am a follower of Christ and this is my most important identity) rather than friend, partner or spouse at this time. I am married I am her husband and I take that very seriously. I’m not single and I am not free to date nor do I want to. But I am enjoying my time and space.
This has been really difficult for me to reconcile because of our history, my feelings and care and also the seriousness of my vows, but with IC I have come to see that the call of Christ-like love towards fellow human beings and in particular or brothers and sisters in the Lord is not an easy road. But He is giving me what I need. When I step out of that and am tempted to have a friendship or partnership with her, I suffer and it’s way off line.
She has not asked to move back (and I’m considering saying “not interested” as suggested here). Though she did propose (not ask) that I move out of our BR into our suite and she move in with D. I said I don’t like that and I'm not planning to move out of our BR. Then she said “I think I want our bed over at my mom’s”. I replied that I have to think about that.
Was helping her when her car broke down “nice”? Or the wrong decision? I honestly don’t know. I have been doing a lot of reflection upon these ideas - reading, journaling, discussing in IC and tight circle of friends. I need to take responsibility and my power back to change the dynamic in my relationship with W, eventual R or not. I need to keep growing, healing and changing. I am assertive, kind, strong, patient and humble and I need to be solid and consistent and not be “nice” or manipulative or passive aggressive.
“ Originally Posted by Rockon
I have decided not to draw conclusions or read further meaning into her actions but rather be on observer and stay in my lane.
Good! ...if you're being honest with yourself. Any conclusions you draw at this point are more likely to be wrong than right, for two reasons: 1) she probably has no idea what she wants, and it'll change day by day if not hour by hour, and 2) you WANT to R so you'd be projecting your conclusions based on your desire”
I am working hard at being honest with myself and you are right on target there BL.
“ You keep saying you need to make an action plan. You've said it several times over a period of time. Maybe it's just time to take action instead of intending to create a plan.”
Yes
Thank you sincerely with respect.
Re: Action 5 - 12/29/22 01:15 AM
New cars rarely brake, just curious as to what it was.. Battery is usually the big culprit nowadays..
Other than that, rarely will any car built in the last 15 years just brake down..
Turning the phone off is hard. I think that isnt a good idea anyways, as I have kids. Not shutting them off.
If she starts talking about getting together, IF, she better be ready to move Mt Shasta, and have a plan so detailed as to how she is fixed, ready, spiritually etc to move forward.. There is a huge list, but you get my drift. You just sit back and question everything..
Other than that, rarely will any car built in the last 15 years just brake down..
Turning the phone off is hard. I think that isnt a good idea anyways, as I have kids. Not shutting them off.
If she starts talking about getting together, IF, she better be ready to move Mt Shasta, and have a plan so detailed as to how she is fixed, ready, spiritually etc to move forward.. There is a huge list, but you get my drift. You just sit back and question everything..
Re: Action 5 - 12/29/22 03:05 AM
I see a lot of myself in you Rockon. I think your threads are getting plenty of hits because those on the site have a genuine respect for you, you post often, and you seem fairly level headed and so a good candidate to DB successfully.
I share BL42s concerns that essentially wishy-washy talk is cheap and you need to turn what you say “making a solid plan” into identifiable, tangible and measurable goals. I think you see his point, so looking forward to this in the future.
Fake goals are
- “I’m going to have to think about a plan moving forward so we don’t become friends.”
- “I need to work on this.”
Real goals are
- “I’m going to instruct her that unless it’s urgent or related to care of the children, she contact me regarding anything divorce related via email only.”
- “I’m going to ask my family to stop contacting her.”
- “I’m going to schedule three appointments with a divorce lawyer to work out what the legalities of it in my state and have a plan for finance and custody if she files.”
- “I’m going to talk with my counsellor next Monday about how to minimise excuses for making contact with her or spending time with her or helping her.”
Lastly, on your Christianity - I feel many Christians look at their faith as an excuse to put up with s*** behaviour. I used it when people asked me “why are you putting up with her BS” to justify staying around - “I signed up for a Christian marriage and so I will respect my vows.” Really all it was, was a convenient excuse for me to desperately hold onto hope in a hopeless situation. I was afraid of an unknown future.
In hindsight, my Christian upbringing gave me unhealthy expectations on staying in a dysfunctional relationship with, well frankly, an idiot. Three years on with my divorce done and dusted, I feel regret that my upbringing and religious views of marriage (in sickness and in health etc) meant my separation and divorce was drawn out and much uglier and painful than it should have been.
I share BL42s concerns that essentially wishy-washy talk is cheap and you need to turn what you say “making a solid plan” into identifiable, tangible and measurable goals. I think you see his point, so looking forward to this in the future.
Fake goals are
- “I’m going to have to think about a plan moving forward so we don’t become friends.”
- “I need to work on this.”
Real goals are
- “I’m going to instruct her that unless it’s urgent or related to care of the children, she contact me regarding anything divorce related via email only.”
- “I’m going to ask my family to stop contacting her.”
- “I’m going to schedule three appointments with a divorce lawyer to work out what the legalities of it in my state and have a plan for finance and custody if she files.”
- “I’m going to talk with my counsellor next Monday about how to minimise excuses for making contact with her or spending time with her or helping her.”
Lastly, on your Christianity - I feel many Christians look at their faith as an excuse to put up with s*** behaviour. I used it when people asked me “why are you putting up with her BS” to justify staying around - “I signed up for a Christian marriage and so I will respect my vows.” Really all it was, was a convenient excuse for me to desperately hold onto hope in a hopeless situation. I was afraid of an unknown future.
In hindsight, my Christian upbringing gave me unhealthy expectations on staying in a dysfunctional relationship with, well frankly, an idiot. Three years on with my divorce done and dusted, I feel regret that my upbringing and religious views of marriage (in sickness and in health etc) meant my separation and divorce was drawn out and much uglier and painful than it should have been.
Re: Action 5 - 12/29/22 04:41 AM
Hello Rock
I encourage you to strengthen your faith. I’ve found faith and conviction not an excuse, rather a reason, a heading. I am going into my sixth year divorced, and my vows are intact. Do not let the actions and behaviours of your spouse dictate when you forgo your vows. That, is within your complete control.
Remaining faithful, compassionate, empathetic, forgiving, etc, can all still occur amidst the chaos. And one can let go, grieve, move forward, and stand. It is most interesting discovering one’s foundation under their own lighthouse. The base which all is built upon.
I am still a hopeful optimistic guy. I believe no situation is hopeless; nothing is that dark and devoid of hope. At times, hope may be a wee flame, yet within the darkness that tiny flicker will still shine a path.
Have faith, the path is often not what we feel it should be, rather the path is what we need it to be. After all, there can be no testament without being tested.
Faith and purposeful actionable steps are not mutually exclusive. In fact, divorce busting principles serve best with a faithful foundation.
D
I encourage you to strengthen your faith. I’ve found faith and conviction not an excuse, rather a reason, a heading. I am going into my sixth year divorced, and my vows are intact. Do not let the actions and behaviours of your spouse dictate when you forgo your vows. That, is within your complete control.
Remaining faithful, compassionate, empathetic, forgiving, etc, can all still occur amidst the chaos. And one can let go, grieve, move forward, and stand. It is most interesting discovering one’s foundation under their own lighthouse. The base which all is built upon.
I am still a hopeful optimistic guy. I believe no situation is hopeless; nothing is that dark and devoid of hope. At times, hope may be a wee flame, yet within the darkness that tiny flicker will still shine a path.
Have faith, the path is often not what we feel it should be, rather the path is what we need it to be. After all, there can be no testament without being tested.
Faith and purposeful actionable steps are not mutually exclusive. In fact, divorce busting principles serve best with a faithful foundation.
D
Re: Action 5 - 12/29/22 05:05 AM
Please start a new thread.
New thread
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2941320#Post2941320
New thread
https:/