Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
It's only sh!t if you let it be sh!t....
Don't let this define your moods...
Tell me something about yourself that you are proud of...
Nothing sitch related, or kid related....
Something about you....
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
The emotional rollercoaster is real. I'd have days where I felt on top of the world. Next day I felt like the crud at the bottom of the swamp. The key is staying busy and GAL. Always be doing. Idle hands are the devil's playground.
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
The emotional rollercoaster is real. I'd have days where I felt on top of the world. Next day I felt like the crud at the bottom of the swamp. The key is staying busy and GAL. Always be doing. Idle hands are the devil's playground.
Yeah, it's always when I'm at work that things go south. I'm busy but am basically alone most days except for the first and last 45 minutes. My mind starts wandering and I have to reel it back in.
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
It's only sh!t if you let it be sh!t....
Don't let this define your moods...
Tell me something about yourself that you are proud of...
Nothing sitch related, or kid related....
Something about you....
I really have to think about that to give you an honest answer. I just don't know.
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
The emotional rollercoaster is real. I'd have days where I felt on top of the world. Next day I felt like the crud at the bottom of the swamp. The key is staying busy and GAL. Always be doing. Idle hands are the devil's playground.
Yeah, it's always when I'm at work that things go south. I'm busy but am basically alone most days except for the first and last 45 minutes. My mind starts wandering and I have to reel it back in.
I can relate. When I was in my situation I would be fine but as soon as I had a couple of free moments at work I'd start spiraling. You have to try to stay occupied. Easier said than done, unfortunately.
MikeP,
Feeling especially down this am. Tired of this sh!t. Gotta refocus.
Remember what I told you just yesterday...
Great post. Sounds like it's starting to click with you. I completely agree with doubling down. 6 days isn't much in the scheme of things. There will be ups and downs...make sure you commit for the long haul.
The emotional rollercoaster is real. I'd have days where I felt on top of the world. Next day I felt like the crud at the bottom of the swamp. The key is staying busy and GAL. Always be doing. Idle hands are the devil's playground.
SteveLW is right about the rollercoaster. The key is to 1) smooth out the ups and downs so the swings aren't as dramatic, and 2) make sure the overall trend is upward.
Mike - use this time to really think about what your core values are - the values that mean the most to you, that define you. When I did that it became really clear what did and didn't fit in my world. It will help, I promise.
Mike - use this time to really think about what your core values are - the values that mean the most to you, that define you. When I did that it became really clear what did and didn't fit in my world. It will help, I promise.
I thought I had done that. My big issue now, I think, is being stuck in limbo. I understand she is having a hard time with whatever is going on in her head. I guess I'm not doing a good job of detaching. I get frustrated thinking she is still deciding between me and the OM. I sometimes think she will never to a point of wanting to reconcile without leaving again and seeing what it will be like without me. I think if she leaves again, I will be done. Seems like a no-win situation. I know I need to just keep on trucking like I have been the last week or so, guess I just needed to vent.
Mike - use this time to really think about what your core values are - the values that mean the most to you, that define you. When I did that it became really clear what did and didn't fit in my world. It will help, I promise.
I thought I had done that. My big issue now, I think, is being stuck in limbo. I understand she is having a hard time with whatever is going on in her head. I guess I'm not doing a good job of detaching. I get frustrated thinking she is still deciding between me and the OM. I sometimes think she will never to a point of wanting to reconcile without leaving again and seeing what it will be like without me. I think if she leaves again, I will be done. Seems like a no-win situation. I know I need to just keep on trucking like I have been the last week or so, guess I just needed to vent.
Maybe try and think about it this way...
And this ties into what I asked you earlier....
IF you truly understand that she has a lot swarming around in her noggin....
Then you add the pressure (unspoken or not, she knows ) that you are tying YOUR future and happiness to HER choice...
It really is a no-win situation that has been created for both of you.......by you
Dude, she has no clue who she is right now, let alone knowing what she wants, or what the future looks like for her.
So maybe go back to what I asked you earlier.......
She is trying to figure it all out....
But you get to do that too...
The Mike that got lost in the marriage ???
Find him, and be the Lighthouse home for her....
The Lighthouse knows what it is, and what it's qualities are. It doesn't try to be anything that it's not, and it sits there, quietly and patiently waiting for you to need it....
Yet when you are sitting in your rowboat, naked and lost, after catching those 3 perch, it's light guides you home....
Be that for her right now, and try not to predict future feelings and actions....
You certainly can't lead from behind....
here is the place to go when you need to vent.
Have you re-read the lighthouse story recently? I can't find the link to post here. Hopefully someone else can.
Also, Cadet has a great list of links
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2854484#Post2854484including one on detachment which may help you right now.
Mach, I think the thing I am most proud of right now is how I've dealt with the last 8 months. At times I wanted to give up and didn't. I've tried to be understanding of what W is going through even though she didn't seem to care about what she put me through. I am also proud that so far I have refrained from confronting the OM. I think I've done a pretty good job considering how hard this is.
I don't know what the Lighthouse story is. I will look it up. Thank you.
The lighthouse is stationary. It doesn't move. It lights the path home but it remains motionless.
Read the story. It is really helpful to LBSs struggling with WHAT to do.
Remember, doing NOTHING is DOING SOMETHING. When in doubt about what to do, do nothing!
The Lighthouse Story
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse....
Mike, it just dawned on me that if you haven't read the lighthouse story than likely you didn't read all of the links that job and cadet post as the first response. Please go back to that post and read each link very carefully. There is gold in those readings. I diligently read each and every one, probably 6 times each minimum.
Be sponge. Soak up as much information as you can. Knowledge is your friend. The rest of the posters here can help with the application of that knowledge through their combined wisdom.
She is home and supposedly not in contact with the om except for work purposes. She is affectionate, we get along well, and she has even started initiating sex. All of this makes things feel "normal" and it's hard not to get caught up in thinking things are going well. I'm trying not to read too much into her actions because I know she is still unsure. It really bothers me that she could act this way towards me and still be considering leaving for the OM. I think that detaching is hard for me because I'm afraid she will think I'm just being withdrawn, like the old me. I like the concept behind the Lighthouse story, I'll try harder to be her lighthouse. I know that I'll never know, until it's too late if it's true, whether or not she still wants the OM. I just can't be plan B again. I won't be. This is my biggest struggle. Despite all the advice, I just can't seem to get past it. I've been doing really well recently, but this morning not so much. Feeling better now. It does help to just get on here and vent. I know I'm not the first and you all have seen it all. I look back at all my post's and think I must come across as a flip flopping, dipsh!t. Thanks again.
Mike, it just dawned on me that if you haven't read the lighthouse story than likely you didn't read all of the links that job and cadet post as the first response. Please go back to that post and read each link very carefully. There is gold in those readings. I diligently read each and every one, probably 6 times each minimum.
Be sponge. Soak up as much information as you can. Knowledge is your friend. The rest of the posters here can help with the application of that knowledge through their combined wisdom.
I'll start this evening. In the beginning of this mess I was a relationship researching madman. It's what I do when I'm interested in something. I have watched so many videos and read so many articles in such a short amount of time, it's unbelievable. I did start reading the links but stopped. I have been a sponge; I think I've entered information overload. I will start reading them though, thanks.
Mach, I think the thing I am most proud of right now is how I've dealt with the last 8 months. At times I wanted to give up and didn't. I've tried to be understanding of what W is going through even though she didn't seem to care about what she put me through. I am also proud that so far I have refrained from confronting the OM. I think I've done a pretty good job considering how hard this is.
Mike, For starters, I think you are knocking this out of the park for this being so fresh still...
I applaud the way you are handling this. And you should be proud...
Yet I want more for you than what you posted above.
I was asked early in my process if I want to be defined by the worst thing that I have ever gone through.....
Sounds like an easy question right ???
So I'm asking you....
Do you want to be defined by the worst thing that you have been through ???
Even if you dig a little deeper and expand on that.
Find the something that is just for you..
Mach, I think the thing I am most proud of right now is how I've dealt with the last 8 months. At times I wanted to give up and didn't. I've tried to be understanding of what W is going through even though she didn't seem to care about what she put me through. I am also proud that so far I have refrained from confronting the OM. I think I've done a pretty good job considering how hard this is.
Mike, For starters, I think you are knocking this out of the park for this being so fresh still...
I applaud the way you are handling this. And you should be proud...
Yet I want more for you than what you posted above.
I was asked early in my process if I want to be defined by the worst thing that I have ever gone through.....
Sounds like an easy question right ???
So I'm asking you....
Do you want to be defined by the worst thing that you have been through ???
Even if you dig a little deeper and expand on that.
Find the something that is just for you..
Let me think about that. I do think that coming out of this mess as a better person, better father, and better husband (either with current W or potential future W) is an accomplishment worth being proud of. I’m proud that I have learned what real empathy is. I was not an empathetic person prior to this.
The Lighthouse Story
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse....
thanks D ...
The lighthouse story is one of my favourites.
D
I was not an empathetic person prior to this.
We have to go through some pain to be able to relate to others pain.
Wow! We went out for our weekly dinner out. ESPN was showing the infamous Jim Valvano speech. I started sobbing and couldn’t hardly stop. I also didn’t care. I’ve never watched it without tearing up, but tonight I just stated crying. Wasn’t even embarrassed to be honest. We left and then she started crying in the truck. Cried the whole ride home. She started apologizing for everything, then I started crying again. Jeez.
I don’t take her apologizing as a good thing necessarily. I think she’s just dealing with a lot of guilt.
Exactly.
Just because she let her walls down doesn’t mean anything.
You just should have listened. Don’t try and fix it. She’s sad, you listen. Silent, unmoving lighthouse.
The trap here for nice guys is to try and fix, be there, hold them, look after them - and that’s a bad mistake, because she has asked for space. Just be there and listen. If she wants you to fix it, or to hug her - wait for her to tell you that’s what she wants.
MikeP,
We left and then she started crying in the truck. Cried the whole ride home. She started apologizing for everything, then I started crying again. Jeez.
I don’t take her apologizing as a good thing necessarily. I think she’s just dealing with a lot of guilt.
Just because she let her walls down doesn’t mean anything.
I don't know. Seems like most WWs are defiant, rebellious, unapologetic, at times even gleeful about hurting the LBS. The fact she's back with you, apologizing, going on dates, having sex with you...etc. Seems like a relative positive. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, and by no means are you out of the woods, but it's certainly a better situation than it could be.
Oh wow that lighthouse analogy slays!
Seems like most WWs are defiant, rebellious, unapologetic, at times even gleeful about hurting the LBS. The fact she's back with you, apologizing, going on dates, having sex with you...etc. Seems like a relative positive.
I agree, but you have a lot of work to do on yourself. Time will tell. Stay focused on you and your personal growth. I balance my behavior between male attractiveness and seduction with my lady. Learn as much as you can in these two areas.
I don't know. Seems like most WWs are defiant, rebellious, unapologetic, at times even gleeful about hurting the LBS. The fact she's back with you, apologizing, going on dates, having sex with you...etc. Seems like a relative positive. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, and by no means are you out of the woods, but it's certainly a better situation than it could be.
I agree. Things could be a lot worse!
It’s also important to regulate expectations. We all know a WAS/WS can oscillate violently between completely normal/affectionate, and then an hour later be dropping grenades and blowing up the world. My ex sometimes showed glimpses of being just ever-so slightly less crazy… I assume it was because for whatever reason, she felt a bit less secure about OM.
The other thing to remember is this: perhaps you have pulled away from her, started making strong moves, given her space and started GAL activities… those things are maybe paying dividends. So if perhaps it’s starting to show results, you should double down and do those things even more!
Don’t make the mistake of seeing her start to respond and drop back to old nice guy behaviours.
DOUBLE DOWN MATE! Stay strong, calm, busy (GAL), uninterested in her!
You’re doing really well. Just remember this is generally a 3-5 year marathon.
Good morning Mike.
Have you read Gordie's threads yet?
Have you given some thought to what your core values/guiding principles are today, post BD?
LMK if you need a link to Gord's threads.
here's a snippet of what I mean by finding your core values:
This worked for me: finding out what my core values/principles were and trying my best to incorporate them into my life. I say finding out, like it was a scavenger hunt. That's not exactly correct. A more accurate statement would be that I looked for common themes/threads. Several emerged: gratitude, humor, compassion, service and the hardest of all for me right now: love.
So again, I say to you my friend - what are the common threads in your life? Therein lies your personal happiness.
xoxoxo
#TeamGordie
#YouGotThis
Good morning Mike.
Have you read Gordie's threads yet?
Have you given some thought to what your core values/guiding principles are today, post BD?
LMK if you need a link to Gord's threads.
here's a snippet of what I mean by finding your core values:
This worked for me: finding out what my core values/principles were and trying my best to incorporate them into my life. I say finding out, like it was a scavenger hunt. That's not exactly correct. A more accurate statement would be that I looked for common themes/threads. Several emerged: gratitude, humor, compassion, service and the hardest of all for me right now: love.
So again, I say to you my friend - what are the common threads in your life? Therein lies your personal happiness.
xoxoxo
#TeamGordie
#YouGotThis
I did start reading Gordie’s thread yesterday, haven’t read it all yet. Based on the snippet you shared I would say humor, service, and love are values I have also incorporated in my life as well. I’ve been working on compassion. Should definitely work on gratitude. Watching Jimmy V speak last night reminded me how much I have to be grateful for.
Mike:
This is where I hope you someday end up:
It only took me 20 months to finally hear what so many of you have said
Stop putting my life on hold
Life is too short
Standing for your M is not standing still
I cannot nice her back
Do not look back at this time as a waste
But a time of renewal and rebirth
You can only get there by solidly - and I mean 100% - focusing on YOU.
There are a lot of people who are still here - old timers - who are standing still, even now.
BOTTOM LINE: We can only control ourselves. We can't make things better, but we sure as hell can make things 1000% worse. Stay in your own lane, think about what you really want, what makes you tick, post BD. A BD is a life-changing event. You are not the same person you were one minute before that happened. Find out who Mike is post BD. Focus your attention there. The rest will flow.
Good morning Mike.
Have you read Gordie's threads yet?
Have you given some thought to what your core values/guiding principles are today, post BD?
LMK if you need a link to Gord's threads.
here's a snippet of what I mean by finding your core values:
This worked for me: finding out what my core values/principles were and trying my best to incorporate them into my life. I say finding out, like it was a scavenger hunt. That's not exactly correct. A more accurate statement would be that I looked for common themes/threads. Several emerged: gratitude, humor, compassion, service and the hardest of all for me right now: love.
So again, I say to you my friend - what are the common threads in your life? Therein lies your personal happiness.
xoxoxo
#TeamGordie
#YouGotThis
I did start reading Gordie’s thread yesterday, haven’t read it all yet. Based on the snippet you shared I would say humor, service, and love are values I have also incorporated in my life as well. I’ve been working on compassion. Should definitely work on gratitude. Watching Jimmy V speak last night reminded me how much I have to be grateful for.
you need to find which patterns are yours, Mikey, not mine. Then synthesize that down to values.
We may have some overlap but we may not. Helps if you know your love languages as a guide
threads 16-19 are intense.
Mike, the problem in my mind is not that you cried in front of her (general guidance here is to not be emotional in front of her), but that you are still doing these weekly dinners. I would highly consider ending those.
"I've decided that for the time being it is better if we stop the weekly dinners. I will be using the time to work on myself and come to terms with everything that is going on."
Maybe even more succinct than that.
#1 mistake we see LBSs make in these situations is spending too much time with the WAS and by extension, saying too much. Words are your enemy right now. They cannot get you anywhere and will only set you back further.
The Jimmy V speech is extremely emotional. There were songs that would trigger my emotions in my situation. When I would hear a song that would trigger me I'd make an excuse to get up and be somewhere else. Or turn the station. Or whatever I had to. Beta behavior, whether modern humans like it or not, is not attractive to most women. At a base level that they nor we can even explain. I can guarantee you that OM wasn't weepy around her. I do not say ANY of this to hurt you, shame you, reprimand you, or any such thing. But simply to make you aware. As R2C says, do what is attractive, avoid what is unattractive.
Another reason I am not trying to beat you up over it is because it is done. Water under the bridge. But you certainly want to avoid another scenario like it.
And very good on not attaching any significance to her apology. As awful as WWs can be, they are still humans and are not out to purposely hurt anyone. So likely seeing you emotional triggered that guilt in her. One thing that I learned was that my WAW had spent months...even a couple of years, getting to the point where she was willing to actually hurt me to get what she wanted. The only reason she didn't in the months and prior to BD was to avoid hurting me. That is some pretty heavy perspective. Likely your wife had held back in doing what she has been doing in an effort to NOT hurt you too, but eventually her need to do it outweighed not wanting to hurt you. But that doesn't mean she enjoys the pain she is causing.
And, as hard as it is to hear, likely a lot of her grief is still over losing OM. It is a reality we LBS eventually have to face. I saw my WW in agony over OM ending their EA. I first took it as a good sign until I finally recognized it for what it was.
Another thing I should point out, likely when she agrees to going to dinner with you, she is wishing it were with OM. In snooping on my WW in our first situation (back in 2005) I found an email where she confessed this to some of her friends in an email. She said she had been enjoying the fun things we were doing as a couple, but that she so wished it was with the EAP. Reading that tore my heart from my chest. But it is perspective that LBSs need to hear because there is likely some of that going on in their own situations.
Onward and upward, Mike!
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.
Not that it makes a difference in terms of what I need to do, but what would everyone’s opinion be concerning this being MLC. vs WAW?
have you read the MLC chapter in divorce remedy?
have you read the MLC chapter in divorce remedy?
Yes. I’ve read some of the mlc threads on here as well
Mike,
You will have to make a decision about the weekly date night. Put lots of thoughts into things before changing directions.
If this is a 180 and something you want to do long term, I would keep doing them. Keeping everything light and exciting and not boring. No heavy talk. If she starts heavy talk you can always say "I would prefer to talk about that some other night when we are home" or similar.
If it is making the R worse or her attraction for you less, than maybe.
If it's an MLC strap in for a long ride, maybe fur the rest of her life
If WAW, then you might be able to outlast it with good DBing.
Good Morning Mike
I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.
W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.
I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.
Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.
A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)
Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.
There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.
And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.
Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.
As I said, a bit of both maybe.
So what to do?
Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.
The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.
Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.
Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.
Have a great day Mike.
D
Mike,
You will have to make a decision about the weekly date night. Put lots of thoughts into things before changing directions.
If this is a 180 and something you want to do long term, I would keep doing them. Keeping everything light and exciting and not boring. No heavy talk. If she starts heavy talk you can always say "I would prefer to talk about that some other night when we are home" or similar.
If it is making the R worse or her attraction for you less, than maybe.
We don't talk about R. In the beginning we did because it was all new and I didn't know better, we almost stopped going for that reason. Now we just talk about what ever, watch whatever sport is on if we're interested, and generally keep it light.
Good Morning Mike
I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.
W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.
I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.
Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.
A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)
Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.
There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.
And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.
Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.
As I said, a bit of both maybe.
So what to do?
Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.
The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.
Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.
Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.
Have a great day Mike.
D
Thank you for the encouragement. It feels like a double whammy knowing she's so unhappy and still being at work with OM everyday. It almost feels inevitable that she will start it up with him again. As you have described above, she is so unhappy and wants the pain to end. She told me before that it was so much different (happier) when she was around him, so it stands to reason she will seek that out again. I've been doing a decent job of detaching, not great but better. It's kind of a fine line with that because I don't want to appear cold or distant like I used to do when I was unhappy about something. I think she is definitely a wallower and I know she is dealing with guilt on top of her other issues. Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me I still love her and don't want to see her suffering. Like everyone says, men are fixers and it goes against my nature to not try and "fix" her. I couldn't if I tried obviously. Funny you mentioned being faithful to the om. When she was living at her parents she would come over for visits and end up staying late. She was so tired and looked terrible, it was obviously taking a terrible toll on her body. Mutiple times I asked her to stay the night instead of driving home so tired, usually after she had fallen asleep. Told her to sleep on the sofa or I would. She wouldn't because he wouldn't like that. Crazy. Thanks again.
Hey Mike....
MLC or WAS ?
Doesn't really matter on your path for now....
Her confusion is a good sign of it though....
Most WAS ?
Well, the "WA" in that equation is Walk Away.....
She is still there ....albeit for who knows how long...
This was a good thread from a few years back.....maybe it can help some on your path right now....
CycloneI always thought that thread should be a "go to" read ...
Good Morning Mike
I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.
W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.
I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.
Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.
A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)
Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.
There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.
And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.
Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.
As I said, a bit of both maybe.
So what to do?
Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.
The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.
Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.
Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.
Have a great day Mike.
D
Thank you for the encouragement. It feels like a double whammy knowing she's so unhappy and still being at work with OM everyday. It almost feels inevitable that she will start it up with him again. As you have described above, she is so unhappy and wants the pain to end. She told me before that it was so much different (happier) when she was around him, so it stands to reason she will seek that out again. I've been doing a decent job of detaching, not great but better. It's kind of a fine line with that because I don't want to appear cold or distant like I used to do when I was unhappy about something. I think she is definitely a wallower and I know she is dealing with guilt on top of her other issues. Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me I still love her and don't want to see her suffering. Like everyone says, men are fixers and it goes against my nature to not try and "fix" her. I couldn't if I tried obviously. Funny you mentioned being faithful to the om. When she was living at her parents she would come over for visits and end up staying late. She was so tired and looked terrible, it was obviously taking a terrible toll on her body. Mutiple times I asked her to stay the night instead of driving home so tired, usually after she had fallen asleep. Told her to sleep on the sofa or I would. She wouldn't because he wouldn't like that. Crazy. Thanks again.
WWs are complex creatures. The mental gymnastics they go through to justify doing or not doing sometime is astounding. You need to remember that much of that is rooted in the fact that in her mind she "moved on" from the marriage. My WW throughout the weeks of our situation would constantly insist that the marriage was over.........and had been for a longtime. This mental gymnastic was to justify doing whatever she wanted. Online emotional affairs, talking to multiple men online, posting a local dating profile, etc. Anytime I protested (thus breaking good DBing behavior) she'd remind me that the marriage was over and had been to her for months.
So this "I've moved on to a new relatinship" mentality is very very common for WW. Where cheating on their legal husband is no where near as bad as "cheating" on their OM. Crazy, illogical, but then that is the mind of a WW.
My favorite is when a LBS snoops and finds evidence, and the WAS is incredulous that the LBS would dare break protocol, not trust them, and snoop including "breaking into" their devices and accounts. As if cheating on your spouse isn't as bad as spying on your spouse! That one always leaves me cross-eyed with confusion, but we've seen it a lot on this forum, and I saw it in my own situation.
Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me…
Hurt people, hurt people.
Mach, you are correct, lots of good information in Cylone’s thread. I think I’ll add it to the MLC welcome post, along with the lighthouse story which I only recently discovered was not linked there.
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.
Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.
So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.
Hey Mike....
MLC or WAS ?
Doesn't really matter on your path for now....
Her confusion is a good sign of it though....
Most WAS ?
Well, the "WA" in that equation is Walk Away.....
She is still there ....albeit for who knows how long...
This was a good thread from a few years back.....maybe it can help some on your path right now....
CycloneI always thought that thread should be a "go to" read ...
In the beginning it was typical WAS behavior and she did leave when I told her to end it with om or leave. Second ultimatum was end it or divorce and she came back. Went through the whole withdrawal from the om episode. Since then it has seemed more like MLC. I know it doesn't really change anything except it could be a much longer, tougher road. I'll check out the link, thanks.
The mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS...I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. ...So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that.
I agree with this.
I have heard this many times:
"Women fall in love in the presence of a man, while men fall in love in the absence of a woman."
I believe it is true in general, but can also be true in the reverse.
One of the things I learned is to be present (full attention) and then be absent. One of the topics in The Art Of Seduction. There is a balance. That balance changes over time. Recalibrate as needed. Find your balance. Daily/Weekly.
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.
Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.
So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.
What little detaching and GALing I've managed to do has had some effect already. The problem is we spend so much time with d13's sports activities together, we don't have much spare time. That's a convenient excuse, but I am trying to do things on my own when I can. This kid of ours is always on the go. Her choice, trust me I would love to get my summer weekends back instead of being at softball tourneys every week. One day it will be over though and then I will miss it dearly. Bball for middle school and high, softball-travel and high school, track- middle and high school. She loves it and I never miss anything. I"ve never missed a single game or track meet, going on 8 years now. Point being, we are together a lot. Part of our marital problem was/is that all our focus is on the kids. Even with our sports schedule, W always felt we needed to focus doing things with the kids. We put more effort into our kids' lives than our own. She never could grasp that it's ok to have us time. That is something that will have to change if me ever start marriage #2.
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.
Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.
So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.
What little detaching and GALing I've managed to do has had some effect already. The problem is we spend so much time with d13's sports activities together, we don't have much spare time. That's a convenient excuse, but I am trying to do things on my own when I can. This kid of ours is always on the go. Her choice, trust me I would love to get my summer weekends back instead of being at softball tourneys every week. One day it will be over though and then I will miss it dearly. Bball for middle school and high, softball-travel and high school, track- middle and high school. She loves it and I never miss anything. I"ve never missed a single game or track meet, going on 8 years now. Point being, we are together a lot. Part of our marital problem was/is that all our focus is on the kids. Even with our sports schedule, W always felt we needed to focus doing things with the kids. We put more effort into our kids' lives than our own. She never could grasp that it's ok to have us time. That is something that will have to change if me ever start marriage #2.
Sorry for the double post, my computer was acting up.
A couple of things I've been thinking about. Something I didn't think to mention about myself is I have a tendency to be negative and judgmental. My mom was and is the most judgmental/negative person I've ever known. I had a great teacher. Sometime before BD I had realized this about myself and have been working on it ever since. It's hard. When you grow up around that type of influence it becomes normal. I have made great strides in this area.
Something else I thought of concerning values. I value honesty and loyalty. I expect it from loved ones and friends. I give it to loved ones and friends. I always say I expect more from them because we (family and friends) love one another. If a coworker lies or throws me under the bus, I chalk it up as one more person to keep an eye on. If a friend does the same, I have a hard time forgiving them. I can and have forgiven friends, but it is hard for me. I have to know they are truly remorseful.
It is kind of crazy that in our 40s and 50s we learn that we have to address our childhood issues.
Black is not always right and white is not always right, but knowing when to apply either or being able to pick the right amount of grey is a great skill to learn in all areas.
One of the things I learned is to be present (full attention) and then be absent.
I like this a lot R2C. I'll keep this in mind in my own situation.
Something I didn't think to mention about myself is I have a tendency to be negative and judgmental. My mom was and is the most judgmental/negative person I've ever known.
I'm in the same boat with you. I know my negativity was a huge cause of my W slowly moving away from me over the years and it was a learned behavior from my mom. There was a point where I broke down and became angry with my mom for several days, blaming her for my failed marriage. The things I learned from her led to the mistakes I've made with my wife and kids, so I rationalized that she was the true cause of my problems. I've since learned that my unhappiness was what led to my negativity and judgmental attitude, not my mom. And the advice I've been getting here has helped me understand that I am in control of my own happiness. Focusing on myself, especially GAL, has helped tremendously with that. It has had a positive impact on my relationships with nearly everyone around me....except for my W (so far!) Keep at it man, we do not have to follow the models we were given. I'll keep following your threads. Best of luck!
Keep at it man, we do not have to follow the models we were given.
Benjamin Button : For what it's worth: it's never too late or, in my case, too early to be whoever you want to be. There's no time limit, stop whenever you want. You can change or stay the same, there are no rules to this thing. We can make the best or the worst of it. I hope you make the best of it. And I hope you see things that startle you. I hope you feel things you never felt before. I hope you meet people with a different point of view. I hope you live a life you're proud of. If you find that you're not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again.
One of the things I learned is to be present (full attention) and then be absent.
I like this a lot R2C. I'll keep this in mind in my own situation.
Something I didn't think to mention about myself is I have a tendency to be negative and judgmental. My mom was and is the most judgmental/negative person I've ever known.
I'm in the same boat with you. I know my negativity was a huge cause of my W slowly moving away from me over the years and it was a learned behavior from my mom. There was a point where I broke down and became angry with my mom for several days, blaming her for my failed marriage. The things I learned from her led to the mistakes I've made with my wife and kids, so I rationalized that she was the true cause of my problems. I've since learned that my unhappiness was what led to my negativity and judgmental attitude, not my mom. And the advice I've been getting here has helped me understand that I am in control of my own happiness. Focusing on myself, especially GAL, has helped tremendously with that. It has had a positive impact on my relationships with nearly everyone around me....except for my W (so far!) Keep at it man, we do not have to follow the models we were given. I'll keep following your threads. Best of luck!
Thanks, I’ve been following your thread and good luck to you as well. I didn’t blame my mom for my marriage problems, but unfortunately my mom’s behavior caused me to distance myself from her her. Her and a couple of my siblings are also perpetual victims so I’ve been fairly detached from all if them, wish I could do a better job if it now with my W. I never want to act like they do so I tend to not want help with problems and I own up to my mistakes mostly. Coming on this forum and going to counseling was so unlike me, very uncomfortable. Glad I did though, this site has been more helpful than I could have imagined.
Coming on this forum and going to counseling was so unlike me, very uncomfortable. Glad I did though, this site has been more helpful than I could have imagined.
I found this site back in 2008. Definitely a life changing event. One other thing I found very helpful was identifying one or two IRL close male friends that I could discuss marriage/personal issues with.
If you stay focused on your changes, your R with your spouse is forced to change because you are interacting with her different.
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.
Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.
So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.
What little detaching and GALing I've managed to do has had some effect already. The problem is we spend so much time with d13's sports activities together, we don't have much spare time. That's a convenient excuse, but I am trying to do things on my own when I can. This kid of ours is always on the go. Her choice, trust me I would love to get my summer weekends back instead of being at softball tourneys every week. One day it will be over though and then I will miss it dearly. Bball for middle school and high, softball-travel and high school, track- middle and high school. She loves it and I never miss anything. I"ve never missed a single game or track meet, going on 8 years now. Point being, we are together a lot. Part of our marital problem was/is that all our focus is on the kids. Even with our sports schedule, W always felt we needed to focus doing things with the kids. We put more effort into our kids' lives than our own. She never could grasp that it's ok to have us time. That is something that will have to change if me ever start marriage #2.
so, as the parent of a student athlete at the time of BD I couldn't stand being there with my h so we would switch off games. Really hard. Or we would sit on opposite sides of the venue. this may or may not work for you.
so, as the parent of a student athlete at the time of BD I couldn't stand being there with my h so we would switch off games. Really hard. Or we would sit on opposite sides of the venue. this may or may not work for you.
My X was the coach...I would play with my other two children (their decision). Great memories.
The thing is we get along great. If you didn’t know better you would think everything thing is good. Of course it’s that way because I am trying my best to forgive her for the affair. She is not sure what she wants in terms of us, but outwardly appears happy. This is what makes it so hard for me. She isn’t angry, treats me good, etc. So going to ball games together isn’t a problem. Her actions make it hard to not feel like things are going well, her words say otherwise.
I wish I could meet some of you in person. It would be so nice to just sit and talk rather than type.
MikeP,
so, as the parent of a student athlete at the time of BD I couldn't stand being there with my h so we would switch off games. Really hard. Or we would sit on opposite sides of the venue. this may or may not work for you.
I started coaching my son's sports teams. I'm on the third year now of soccer and baseball. Mostly I did it to stay engaged as much as possible with my son's life, but a side benefit is I'm never on the sidelines next to ExW & ExMIL and that drama...I'm on the other side of the field engrossed in coaching. I do feel a little bad about my parents being there having to deal with it, especially my mom I know it's tough on here. However, it's also been a blast working with my son and his buddies and many say "Hey Coach BL42!" even outside sports like school pickup.
The thing is we get along great. If you didn’t know better you would think everything thing is good. Of course it’s that way because I am trying my best to forgive her for the affair. She is not sure what she wants in terms of us, but outwardly appears happy. This is what makes it so hard for me. She isn’t angry, treats me good, etc. So going to ball games together isn’t a problem. Her actions make it hard to not feel like things are going well, her words say otherwise.
This is definitely a weird phenomenon. The outward superficial façade of everything looks great to others in public, but the underlying unsettledness of the situation in real life at home. Makes you wonder what other couples you see out there that look like the happy family and couple who are going through something similar...
I wish I could meet some of you in person. It would be so nice to just sit and talk rather than type.
There a DB coaches that offer sessions so you can talk things out. Also, have you looked into divorce support groups in person? They can be helpful. Though for your sitch with W back in the house and saying she wants to work on things that's potentially premature.
MikeP - Have you read
Reeling - Is it a MLC or?? She just came back after a few months with a WH/WAH who was giving indications of working on things. It is NOT the same as yours - so I don't want to discourage you on your sitch which I think is in better shape than many posters' here - just thought there are some similarities you may can something out of her thread.
I have coached a few seasons of basketball and probably 4 years of softball. I stopped coaching softball after this past summer travel season ended. I just wasn’t feeling it anymore and enjoyed watching from the stands this fall. I do miss it though. Going through this has really opened my eyes to what others could be going through. A guy that works for me got divorced a few years ago and while I felt bad for him, I didn’t grasp what he was really going through. I meant that I would like to meet some of the folks on here just to socialize, such a great group of people.
Hey Mike,
I’ve been following along silently like I do for most. I just wanted to tell you, you’re going to be ok.
There is the other side for this situation. We just don’t know what it looks like yet, either way, you’re going to be ok.
I just wanted to throw some encouragement towards you, because going through this is like walking up to a rollercoaster you’ve never been on or seen blindfolded and merrily sent on your way.
However, you can find peace in the storm. Is there anything you use to do? Ride a bike, target shooting, motorcycle, skiing, snow mobiles?
What helped me was realizing I was on my own for the first time in like ever. I could paint the walls whatever color I wanted. I could turn my basement into an arcade. I could blast music, make food I wanted.…honestly I got so excited about the arcade that become a must have regardless of the outcome! I also got my motorcycle which became and remains my therapy when I stopped IC.
I do hope in a year or two we’ll see you in the piecing forum if not sooner. I do, but I also just wanted to remind you, even in the lowest of times, and trust me, I’ve been there, you will be ok.
Hey Mike,
I’ve been following along silently like I do for most. I just wanted to tell you, you’re going to be ok.
There is the other side for this situation. We just don’t know what it looks like yet, either way, you’re going to be ok.
I just wanted to throw some encouragement towards you, because going through this is like walking up to a rollercoaster you’ve never been on or seen blindfolded and merrily sent on your way.
However, you can find peace in the storm. Is there anything you use to do? Ride a bike, target shooting, motorcycle, skiing, snow mobiles?
What helped me was realizing I was on my own for the first time in like ever. I could paint the walls whatever color I wanted. I could turn my basement into an arcade. I could blast music, make food I wanted.…honestly I got so excited about the arcade that become a must have regardless of the outcome! I also got my motorcycle which became and remains my therapy when I stopped IC.
I do hope in a year or two we’ll see you in the piecing forum if not sooner. I do, but I also just wanted to remind you, even in the lowest of times, and trust me, I’ve been there, you will be ok.
Thanks for the encouragement, I really appreciate it. It’s definitely a crazy ride, I have to remind myself that others have been in much crazier rides.
I’ve always been into shooting and fishing, still do both we I have time. i used to always have an old Dodge or Plymouth to work on, been looking for one recently. I’m also looking at bikes, I’ve seen some decent ones just haven’t looked any in person yet.
I like the idea of an arcade! I have been thinking of ideas for the basement, that is a good one.
For now working out and running are my therapy. Had a good, hard chest, shoulders, and triceps work out followed by a 5k run this afternoon. I’m tired but my head is clear and my mood is great.
Thanks again for being so supportive!
Another bout of the Monday morning blues. Went to bed feeling fine, wake up feeling hopeless. I think too much about all the people that struggle through this for years and never make it.
"Just one more mornin'
I had to wake up with the blues
Pulled myself outta bed, yeah
Put on my walkin' shoes"
Started singing this in my head while driving to work. I love the Allman brothers. Need to listen to Blue Sky, that always cheers me up.
Just reread " A few things you should know" by Jack 3 Beans in the MLC forum. Nice reminder. Especially the part about not looking too far down the road.
That’s helpful for me too. Hang in there Mike. You got this.
Not much going on, just cruising in limbo. I've been doing a pretty good job of giving her space and GAL. Had a rough day Monday but I got over it. Running and hitting the gym help so much.
Another bout of the Monday morning blues. Went to bed feeling fine, wake up feeling hopeless. I think too much about all the people that struggle through this for years and never make it.
What if I were to tell you that "the people" become better versions of themselves, go on an incredible journey, meet many new amazing people and are happier now than they have ever been? Still feel sorry for them?
There was a popular poster named AnotherStander (read his threads) who you to post the quote below from the show Vikings. The Seer could see into the future as can I.
"Oh, Mikey P, if you truly knew what the gods have in store for you, you would go down now and dance naked on the beach".
Good days come. Good days go. Just keep on keeping on! You got this Mike. You are well on your way to the best version of yourself that you can be! She may notice and want to tag along. She may notice and still not be interested. She may not even notice. But you will still be the best MikeP you can be.
Forgot to add a big detail: I applied for retirement today and should be officially retired on my birthday 1/1! I've looked forward to this moment for so long, now I'm a little apprehensive about it. Going to take a month or so off to work on the house and myself. Get back to work somewhere after that.
Congrats on the retirement!
MikeP,
Forgot to add a big detail: I applied for retirement today and should be officially retired on my birthday 1/1! I've looked forward to this moment for so long, now I'm a little apprehensive about it. Going to take a month or so off to work on the house and myself. Get back to work somewhere after that.
Congrats on filing for retirement!
Remember the advice you got here, and make sure to consult L about the implications of retirement and a new job in relation to the possibility of divorce. Be smart financially and make a good business decision:
If it looks like she is imminently going to file, I’d retire. Go through the divorce and financial split while you are retired. She gets her money at that point based on you not earning any more. Perhaps won’t get alimony if you’ve retired.
Get the $$s split done so you lose as little as possible. Once it’s all squared away, then you can look at deciding to get a new job.
If you start a new job, well paid, and then she files - it could put you in a much worse financial position.
Kind18's advice seems VERY wise. Way better to base support off a retirement / little income than a nice new flashy job. Be smart. And don't feel bad about getting the best deal. SHE is the one who wants a divorce.
MikeP,
Forgot to add a big detail: I applied for retirement today and should be officially retired on my birthday 1/1! I've looked forward to this moment for so long, now I'm a little apprehensive about it. Going to take a month or so off to work on the house and myself. Get back to work somewhere after that.
Congrats on filing for retirement!
Remember the advice you got here, and make sure to consult L about the implications of retirement and a new job in relation to the possibility of divorce. Be smart financially and make a good business decision:
If it looks like she is imminently going to file, I’d retire. Go through the divorce and financial split while you are retired. She gets her money at that point based on you not earning any more. Perhaps won’t get alimony if you’ve retired.
Get the $$s split done so you lose as little as possible. Once it’s all squared away, then you can look at deciding to get a new job.
If you start a new job, well paid, and then she files - it could put you in a much worse financial position.
Kind18's advice seems VERY wise. Way better to base support off a retirement / little income than a nice new flashy job. Be smart. And don't feel bad about getting the best deal. SHE is the one who wants a divorce.
Yeah, that's the plan. We can get by on my retirement so no real hurry.
Congratulations on your upcoming retirement.
Still cruising along. Went out with one of my oldest friends Friday, he was my best man when we married. We kind of grew apart due to me becoming his supervisor at work. Had a really nice time hanging, a lot of laughs. Spent most of this weekend together. Had a ball game 2 hours away yesterday afternoon. On the drive home W and d13 were sleeping. My mind started going places it shouldn’t. Was pretty irritated by time we got home. W suspected something was up but I played it off and went for a run. At 10 pm. with a belly full of Mexican food😁. Came home in a good mood, showered, and all was well. D had another game this afternoon. Afterwards we had lunch and then D and I went to a friends house with an indoor court. Put her through a tough shooting workout for an hour, left W at home. About to shower, have my last beer until next weekend, and watch tv-alone.
Hey Mike that sounds like a pretty cool weekend - I’d like to kick it with you for some of that! Way to go Bro. You got this! Own your power.
Good stuff, MikeP! Keep it up.
Mike, remember GAL is not a checklist item. It isn't something that you do a few times and check off. It is ongoing. Sounds like you did a good job this weekend. Now what are your plans this week?
Mike, remember GAL is not a checklist item. It isn't something that you do a few times and check off. It is ongoing. Sounds like you did a good job this weekend. Now what are your plans this week?
I almost have to make it a check list item so I don’t find excuses not to. I’ve spent a lot of years doing nothing for myself and it’s too easy to slide back into that comfort zone. I’ll be running or hitting the gym every day for sure. D has basketball 5 days this week. I signed up to make Chili for a huge tournament our high school is putting on this weekend, that’s not something I would normally do even though I enjoy cooking. Planning on going one night to a new bar or restaurant. Have to pick a place still.
Hopefully when I’m retired next month, GAL will become easier and not so scheduled. I’ll have much more time on my hands. Planning on working on our house and myself for a couple of months. Lots of projects to do around here.
Mike, remember GAL is not a checklist item. It isn't something that you do a few times and check off. It is ongoing. Sounds like you did a good job this weekend. Now what are your plans this week?
I almost have to make it a check list item so I don’t find excuses not to. I’ve spent a lot of years doing nothing for myself and it’s too easy to slide back into that comfort zone. I’ll be running or hitting the gym every day for sure. D has basketball 5 days this week. I signed up to make Chili for a huge tournament our high school is putting on this weekend, that’s not something I would normally do even though I enjoy cooking. Planning on going one night to a new bar or restaurant. Have to pick a place still.
That's fair. My point was more that with checklist items we tend to check them off and consider them done. GAL had persisted for me well into my reconciliation. It will always be part of life now.
Mike, remember GAL is not a checklist item. It isn't something that you do a few times and check off. It is ongoing. Sounds like you did a good job this weekend. Now what are your plans this week?
I almost have to make it a check list item so I don’t find excuses not to. I’ve spent a lot of years doing nothing for myself and it’s too easy to slide back into that comfort zone. I’ll be running or hitting the gym every day for sure. D has basketball 5 days this week. I signed up to make Chili for a huge tournament our high school is putting on this weekend, that’s not something I would normally do even though I enjoy cooking. Planning on going one night to a new bar or restaurant. Have to pick a place still.
That's fair. My point was more that with checklist items we tend to check them off and consider them done. GAL had persisted for me well into my reconciliation. It will always be part of life now.
Thanks Steve, I get what you mean. It’s a bit of struggle to break the old habits, definitely don’t want it to be a temporary thing.
Feel like total crud today, woke up with a sore back and shoulder. I recently aggravated an old shoulder injury at the gym. Ugh. Just felt really tired, good day to stay home and just veg out. Unfortunately after W called me on her lunch break I’ve fallen into the same old trap of thinking about her and him working together. I just don’t know if I’ll ever be ok
with it. One way or another I’ve got to go for a run after I drop D off at b-ball practice. Running seems to be the one thing that consistently shuts down the bs in my head 🤞🏻
MikeP, have you thought what reconciliation looks like for you? I am completely on board with "You have to find another job." being a stipulation for her in order for you to accept that she is serious about reconciling. Be high value. Expect more. Don't settle.
MikeP, have you thought what reconciliation looks like for you? I am completely on board with "You have to find another job." being a stipulation for her in order for you to accept that she is serious about reconciling. Be high value. Expect more. Don't settle.
I have Steve. If and when she comes around, that will most likely be a nonnegotiable for me. I tolerate it now because I have to. It is very hard.
Why do you have to tolerate it Mikey P?
Why do you have to tolerate it Mikey P?
Good question. I suppose I have to tolerate it if I don’t want things to end now. I think there is zero chance she finds a new job if I push it. She knows how much it bothers me yet wouldn’t look for a new job when I asked. Maybe I’m wrong, but if she is unsure about our future I don’t think an ultimatum will work in my favor. I will say it’s getting harder to tolerate, I might be getting close to pushing the issue. Good to hear from you by the way.
At what point can I pm members?
At what point can I pm members?
Never. No PM on this site.
Mike your instincts on ultimatums are correct. They rarely work out the way you would want them too. Mainly because they are an attempt at controlling things you have no control over.I understand what you mean by feeling like you have to tolerate it for now. I guess the question is how long are you willing to tolerate it?
Mike your instincts on ultimatums are correct. They rarely work out the way you would want them too. Mainly because they are an attempt at controlling things you have no control over.I understand what you mean by feeling like you have to tolerate it for now. I guess the question is how long are you willing to tolerate it?
Sometimes I think I can deal with it as long as necessary. Other days I want to throw in the towel. When she was seeing the om and not hiding it I put up with it until it started negatively affecting me mentally. I reached my tipping point and that was that. Fortunately she stopped seeing him. Unfortunately she still works with him. I only lasted roughly a month with the om sitch. Obviously I can deal with this better but not sure how much longer. At some point I suppose I will make this a boundary-If she continues to work with the om, I will decide to look into a D. I would ask her again to look for a new job before making such a drastic move.
MikeP,
Unfortunately after W called me on her lunch break I’ve fallen into the same old trap of thinking about her and him working together. I just don’t know if I’ll ever be ok with it.
I think there is zero chance she finds a new job if I push it. She knows how much it bothers me yet wouldn’t look for a new job when I asked. Maybe I’m wrong, but if she is unsure about our future I don’t think an ultimatum will work in my favor.
Mike your instincts on ultimatums are correct. They rarely work out the way you would want them too. Mainly because they are an attempt at controlling things you have no control over.
I agree that for your M to work long term W needs to stop working with OM. I also suspect you and SteveLW are right that an ultimatum right now may likely not go your way. Steve's right about control. You can't control her and make her do something. She needs to WANT to do it.
One way or another I’ve got to go for a run after I drop D off at b-ball practice. Running seems to be the one thing that consistently shuts down the bs in my head 🤞🏻
Exercise is a fantastic way of dealing with it. Not only is it a distraction, but it's good for your health, your appearance, your confidence...etc. Keep it up.
I will say it’s getting harder to tolerate, I might be getting close to pushing the issue.
Sometimes I think I can deal with it as long as necessary. Other days I want to throw in the towel.
Keep in mind emotions are fleeting. It's natural to go back and forth. The key is not to react based on those emotions.
Why do you have to tolerate it Mikey P?
Good question. I suppose I have to tolerate it if I don’t want things to end now. I think there is zero chance she finds a new job if I push it. She knows how much it bothers me yet wouldn’t look for a new job when I asked. Maybe I’m wrong, but if she is unsure about our future I don’t think an ultimatum will work in my favor. I will say it’s getting harder to tolerate, I might be getting close to pushing the issue. Good to hear from you by the way.
Mikey P I am one of the few people here who is a fan of ultimatums. Why? Because people respond to them. My son while using my car was late to responding to my texts. Son if you don’t respond to my text you will not use my car. Guess who started responding to my texts? The reason why was because he knows I will follow through. That’s when ultimatums and boundaries work when the other person knows you mean it.
Right now if you say it’s either the job or me she will likely pick the job. The reason why is because she doesn’t think she will ever have those tingly feelings for you again. So you can play the long game and work on self improvement, GAL and eventually she will either commit back or D you in which you will most likely eventually find someone better. Or you can decide this doesn’t work for you and LOVINGLY let her know this situation no longer works for you and you are out and act accordingly.
Either way you have to live with yourself. You want to be able to tell your kids you did everything in your power to keep your family together.
So my entire last post was basically that you never should tolerate something that goes against your beliefs and values.
Please start a new thread.
Mikey P I am one of the few people here who is a fan of ultimatums. Why? Because people respond to them. My son while using my car was late to responding to my texts. Son if you don’t respond to my text you will not use my car. Guess who started responding to my texts? The reason why was because he knows I will follow through. That’s when ultimatums and boundaries work when the other person knows you mean it.
I very much agree. It also falls under “you teach people how to treat you”. I keep hearing and reading about “boundaries”. They mean nothing unless there are “consequences” for crossing them. The problem is, this often only works with sane, sensible, normal people - something most WAW/WW are not. With others, people will continue to get away with what they are allowed to get away with. When they learn they cannot get away with it, they stop.
So you can play the long game and work on self improvement, GAL and eventually she will either commit back or D you in which you will most likely eventually find someone better.
Likely eventually find someone better? Based on what has happened to all of us here? That’s the thing, I’ve heard and read since my own BD coming up in 20 years ago now. I’ve yet to find that better person - at least for the long term. The better people I do find are often still married and never D’d. I see the same here and elsewhere. Sure some do, but many if not most do not. In fact MWD talks about this in her books. Yet many of the WAW are still with the “better” person they found after us. Ginger, Andrew, KML, myself and others are RL examples. We’ve not found better yet our exs are still with the same person. Doesn’t mean they are happy but it does very much refute the “you’ll find someone better” platitude. You may, many to most do not. That’s just the truth if it.
Thanks 19 & Don. If she wasn’t working with the om I could better deal with our state of limbo. I know part of this process is to detach and not worry about what she’s doing at work. Easier said than. After BD she came to me and said she was ending it with him to work on our marriage. Of course that was a lie. She came home when i gave her the ultimatum and said she wanted to work on our marriage. Another lie. Hard for me to now believe they are innocently working together and not up to something. She fooled me twice cause I didn’t know better than to believe her. Won’t get fooled again. I plan on sticking it out but unsure how long. There are still positive signs as it relates to me not pursuing or having R talks. She is aware things have changed, she is much more affectionate and somewhat pursues me. I obviously don’t think things are good, only slightly better. If she would take it upon herself to leave that job I would see that as a possible turning point. Not holding my breath.
Likely eventually find someone better? Based on what has happened to all of us here?
Don before I answer I would like to know what you consider "better". The fact that we were all cast a side here I would argue anyone is "better."
Also, crazily I do not know your story. Were you cheated on?