Living With WAW 4

[DW17]

Link to previous thread

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2939045&page=10

[DW17]

Ugh DW that is not a “thank you” moment. It’s a I understand you feel that way but we will not be friends when we divorce. End of discussion.

So why did you leave this out of your first post about the interaction?
It is hard for us to give appropriate feedback if details are missing.

Yeah, I kinda botched that. Wasn't sure what to say, but I see how I need to make that clear to W. She has to KNOW she is losing something. I doubt she currently feels that way, despite me previously telling her that we would not be friends after D. She needs to know I'm serious about it. And I will try to make sure I include the important details in my posts so you guys have all the relevant info.

Typical WAS. No follow-thru. If you read through the situations here, most LBSs end up being the one to file for D. Because the WAS is usually lazy, and after they state what they want they just expect it will happen. DW17, have you considered setting a drop-dead date? A date that if she isn't recommitted fully back to the marriage then you will hire a lawyer and go file yourself? Do you know how long you are willing to live in the current situation? Being married to someone that clearly doesn't want to be married to you, isn't willing to put any work into the marriage, and goes around making it abundantly clear how miserable they are?

I decided that I will wait this out one year from the time W went crazy, which was when I went out of state for work last summer. So my drop dead date is June 1. I do anticipate being the one to file, and I will try my best to make it that far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being earlier than that.

IHS is tough. You've been with someone for 22 years, but then have to try to act like friendly acquaintances in a shared living space while raising kids together. I think my current struggle is that things feel like they are slipping back into normalcy and I don't think it's a good kind of normal. I've seen recent posts on other threads about the need for things to be a little uncomfortable. I have been doing my own thing, taking care of the kids, giving space, no talks about R, detaching pretty well, focusing on GAL, and my emotions have been in check for the most part. I messed up trying to set boundaries to the point where they were so ineffective that I had to take a pause. And some of the things I was trying to do have slipped back as well. For example, answering phone calls. I don't always answer, but sometimes, like this morning where we are trying to coordinate getting 2 kids around with snow related issues, I know the calls are likely important. I understand that if I am not consistent with things, they will not work. I've raised kids long enough to understand it, but I guess it's a little different applying it to my W. I will continue to work on this.

Currently W is still not providing much help with anything regarding the kids or around the house. Tried to set some plans for who is taking care of D4 and on which days, that didn't really work. My wife would rather just figure it out each week and be flexible with who has which day on the weekends. That has worked for the most part as I've been able to do things whenever I wanted, so maybe a strict schedule isn't necessary. But maybe that's just me letting her set the expectations because she's too lazy to plan ahead. Probably the latter.

Tried to set plans for cooking/grocery duties swapping each week. That didn't work either. W bought groceries, but it was a week late and has only cooked a couple of days. This is "my week" to cook, so I'll try and have a plan for next week.

I think my biggest problem is that I just need to actually apply all of the advice I've been getting and be consistent with it. I think that after discussing divorce with a few people, going through the paperwork, and gaining a better understanding of what to expect, much of the fear I had has been relieved. I don't think I fear upsetting W anymore and I no longer fear that anything I say will be the final nail in the coffin. I've been hoping that her therapy will be some kind of magic fix for things, which is stupid to think and is something I have no control over. I do know that to even put myself in position to turn this thing around, I have to take more control over this situation. I will try my best to focus on that for the next few weeks.

[SteveLW]

DW, I think you are doing fairly well. A few tweaks and you will be there.

I do think answering the calls related to kids is ok. If you are fairly sure that is what is about and keep it to the logistics of the kids. If it starts to veer into other territory, just make and excuse and hang up.

As far as childcare and the meals responsibility, I think you need to formulate a plan to discuss this with her. Make sure you are not negotiating but setting ground rules.

"The shared meal duty and child care schedule haven't been working. So from now on I will be responsible for the kids and myself on my child care days, and you will be on your own. And vice-versa. Here is a schedule I have come up with that I think is fair: Mon-Fri every other week I will have the kids, and you will have them Sat. and Sunday. Alternating weeks you will have them Mon-Fri, and I will have Sat and Sunday."

If she protests, point out that you both need to get used to an arrangement like this as this is how it will be post divorce.

If she continues to protest, inform her that the next step will be to get a custody arrangement in place with a lawyer.

Be unemotional. Stick to business and the facts. Have a plan for if she balks at it.

If she agrees and still doesn't live up to it, that is when you start needing to keep a journal and track all of the times she flakes. That will be crucial in a custody hearing as it will show she was leaning towards abandonment.

DW, you've got this! IHS is hard. But many LBSs struggle with true separation too. I really suggest consulting an attorney as well. It was one of the best things I did in my own situation.

[BL42]

DW17,

IHS is incredibly difficult. Especially when they're having an active affair and making overtures of leaving.

LH & R2C are right on the "no thank you moment". Be strong and decisive about not wanting to be friends.

I agree w/SteveLW you're doing fairly well overall considering. He gives great advice above on the approach w/caring for the kids. Remember to document!!! 50/50 with mom/dad is best for the kids IF both parties are caring parents, but if W is too depressed to handle the job maybe you want to document for a potential custody hearing, if needed.

Thanksgiving morning I ran my 10k

Keep up the exercise! I did a 5k and lifted on Thanksgiving Day when I didn't have the kids...helped me feel a lot better.

W sent me a message stating she was proud of me for setting a goal and accomplishing it. Then she added that just because she doesn’t want to be in an intimate relationship with me and she has a lot of work to do on herself it does not mean that we aren’t a family. She said she is hopeful we will remain close and will do life together for our kids and each other. She said I am always welcome at her mom’s house and it feels weird not having me there, but she respects my decision not to go to Thanksgiving there.

No question or kids/financial business = no need to response.

I don’t know how to interpret this.

Like LH said, she's probably being honest. Many WWs would love to be in a romantic relationship with their AP but keep their H/ExH as a father, friend, and emotional safety net. Doesn't mean that works for you.

It mostly just pissed me off when I first read it.

That's an appropriate reaction.

I don’t see a scenario where I interact with her any more than necessary if we split up. I know that’s not her expectation even though I’ve told her I don’t see us as friends if we divorce.

I'd make that abundantly clear.

I like that she acknowledged she has things to work on, and I think that’s been a focal point of her therapy, but we’ll see.

Good she's in therapy, but I wouldn't bank on that fixing everything. I suspect my ExW went back to IC to manage herself through the affair and D, not to fix anything. So depends on your W's motivation. Hopefully yours is different than mine.

It was nice spending Thanksgiving with my family, as I usually spend it with the in-laws.

Hmmm...why do you usually spend it with the in-laws and not your family? Is there not an even split rotation?

It was pretty tough not having my kids with me though.

Yeah. I hear you. That is difficult.

I could feel the emotion building for a few days. I ended up calling my MIL on the way to my aunt’s house and telling her that I wouldn’t be there. I wanted to make sure she knew it had nothing to do with her or my FIL and I thought she should hear it from me. The conversation ended up being a little deeper than I was planning or expecting.

I think most here would say don't engage with the in-laws. If it's just logistics maybe, but might there have been a deeper motivation behind you reaching out? I suspect it's likely there was.

I got the vibe that MIL doesn’t really know what’s going on.

Very likely. At least the full truth. W isn't going to tell her family she's cheating and divorcing a good man.

After the call my emotions all came out. Anger, sadness, a feeling of loss, a bunch of stuff that I’d been keeping in for a few days.

Good! Get it out. It's important. And in an appropriate venue. I.e., not in front of W or her family.

In the days leading up to Thanksgiving, W tried to frame things as me abandoning my kids to be with my family, which pissed me off too.

Right. She's not going to tell the whole truth to anyone.

I wanted to tell her she blew up our family at the worst possible time, her selfish actions are causing irreparable damage with the few people in her life who actually do care about her and that her lying and cheating prevented me from spending Thanksgiving with my kids for the first time in their lives. Instead I just respectfully disagreed with her and went about my day.

Perfect. Completely natural and understandable to have those thoughts and feelings, but great job controlling your emotions and not blowing up at W.

I later found out that she tried making up a story of why I wasn’t there only to have her mom say she already talked to me about it. I think getting blindsided while trying to badmouth me is what upset her.

Yep. They're not happy when things don't go to plan.

after a bit she just kind of checks out.

her lack of help is causing issues.

I get stressed sometimes trying to take care of the kid related things she is neglecting. She doesn’t help with brushing teeth, giving baths, feeding, etc.

Remember your primary responsibility is the care of your children. My ExW would sleep through the day, stopped bathing our kids (I'd do it myself on day I flexed out to see them during "her weeks")...etc. It's stressful and hard, but remain their rock. Make up the slack. Eventually hopefully she'll come around there. Also document! Ideally for the k ids it's 50/50 mom/dad, but if your W is too depressed to care for her children maybe she shouldn't get custody until she can.

W still hasn’t mentioned the D papers and there’s been no real conversation about the future.

My experience was different - ExW rushed it through - but many others say WSs are lazy.

Okay, now some GAL stuff

Keep up the GAL! Best way to get you feeling better, stronger, more confident, interesting, and attractive.

[Kind18]

I second everything BL42 says.

Yes be angry at her in your own time, but you need to be Grey rock whenever you’re interacting with her or kids or her family/friends. Google “grey rock”. Your kids need a solid, stable, unreactive anchor in their lives - that can be you !

Sounds to me like she’s suffering from mid life depression. There’s some very classic symptoms in her behaviour and what she’s saying.

But diagnosing or fixing her is not your job. It’s up to her to work it out and fix it.

She’s framing things as you abandoning her kids, because in her mind and to her friends, that helps her rationalise her shi**y behaviour. Despite the fact that she’s choosing to rip your family apart, be aware that (in her mind) she 100% thinks she is doing the right thing.

[DW17]

Steve, thanks for the advice. That sounds like a great game plan for my situation.

I've been documenting things each day in a journal. The 2 lawyers I spoke with said it wouldn't have much bearing, but it does help me sort my thoughts, see progress, and see faults/mistakes. I feel that it's beneficial so I will continue to do this.

It was nice spending Thanksgiving with my family, as I usually spend it with the in-laws.

Hmmm...why do you usually spend it with the in-laws and not your family? Is there not an even split rotation?

We used to split between our families earlier on in our relationship. My family is pretty small and the people who used to host things have been gone during the holidays most years. Most Thanksgivings for the past 10 years have been at the in-laws, except for one that we hosted 2 years ago. I had also slowly drifted away from my family and friends for the past 10+ years, which was part of me losing my identity and likely helped lead to the situation I'm in. I've probably seen my family and friends more in the past 4 months than I had in the past 4 years.

I think most here would say don't engage with the in-laws. If it's just logistics maybe, but might there have been a deeper motivation behind you reaching out? I suspect it's likely there was.

I had been meaning to speak with her for several months to just thank her for being an awesome grandmother to my kids, especially D4 and D6 since my family did not seem to accept them in the same ways. I went to a celebration of life in August for a coworker who passed away at 41. The big theme of everyone speaking was regret for not being able to tell that person the impact she had on their lives and how much they appreciate it. I am bad about letting people know how I feel about them and letting them know they are appreciated. I kept thinking about my MIL and how I couldn't remember ever truly showing her my gratitude, other than saying thank you. My mom has not been a very good grandmother for a ton of reasons, which has been a source of frustration for me and W over the years, so MIL stepping up has meant a lot to me. This is some of what I finally got around to telling her this year. Each Thanksgiving with them we go around and each person says something they are thankful for. It felt appropriate to me since I wasn't there to let her know that I was thankful for her and why. I think part of my emotion coming out after was that it kind of felt like I was saying goodbye to her. It wasn't intentional but that's how it felt. It's easy for people to say "you can call or stop by whenever, I'm always available if you need anything, etc", but I understand that is probably not realistic after D. Long way to answer your question, but I agree there was probably a deeper motivation. But it also felt wrong not to at least speak to her on the holiday I've spent with her for majority of the past 22 years.

Kind18 - I looked up the grey rock method and I love that. I think I've been doing a pretty good job of that with W. I can tell when she's trying to cause tension and I've been able to avoid it most of the time just by recognizing when she's doing it or anticipating when she will. We haven't had many arguments and the times W has gotten mad recently, like when she was upset that I called her mom, I've mostly just kept my mouth shut and found a way to end the discussion quickly. Thanks for adding another tool to my toolbox.

[DW17]

I've been browsing around the MLC threads the past couple of days. This "Midlife for Dummies" one made me laugh. This stuff shouldn't be funny, but I guess you gotta try and make the best of a sh!t situation.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960393&page=1

[DonH]

I’ve never seen that before. Borderline brilliant! If only people could get this sent to their WAS and make them read it. Would they see the irony? Whomever took the time to write this is awesome.

[DW17]

I pulled up some goals I had set from a post in October. I did 4 of them and I think it's time to set some more.

1 – Turkish bath house (the one I found is actually Russian, but close enough)
2 – There’s a small mountain nearby I want to hike to the top of
3 – Hit my current weight goal (8lbs to go) by the end of the month
4 – Reconnect with at least 2 more friends and make plans with them
5 – Run a 10k that’s coming up next month

Having my goals listed somewhere seems to help, so I'll post them here again so I can refer back as needed.

1- New weight goal by the end of the month (7lbs to go). To get there I'll continue with my 100 pushups a day and add Insanity ab workout 3x/week. Continue running 3x/week. Continue eating well and limit those d@mn holiday treats.
2- Sign up for polar plunge 5k/dip in the water on New Year's Day
3- Plan a new holiday tradition with the kids
4- Expand my social circle by hanging out with at least one person not currently in my friend group.
5- Turkish bath house (I'll try again to squeeze this in somewhere. Closest one is over an hour away and most of my weekends are already full)

[DW17]

Haven’t posted in a bit, mostly because there isn’t much to update. I’ve had a few things happen that I normally would have sought advice, but I’m learning how to handle these situations based on the advice I’ve already received which is nice. I feel like I get caught off guard less often. There is one thing that popped up the other day that I’ve been seeking advice with.

D4’s birthday is coming up. W has not participated in any of the planning so far so I took the lead. I booked the location (a swimming pool), got the decorations picked out and invited some of my family. We have had a couple of parties here before. W and I didn’t talk much about it until Monday when W asked if I had invited anyone. I told her I had invited my family and W blew up. She was mad at me for not thinking about her feelings about being around my family, she said it gives her anxiety, they haven’t been a big part of D4’s life so I shouldn’t have invited them, my selfishness confirms that she made the right decision to D, I haven’t learned anything, this was supposed to be a kid only party, etc. I just listened and kept my mouth shut. W took a bath and came back to apologize for yelling, but reiterated many of the same things she said before. I listened again and only added that I wished we had talked about this several weeks ago. I got out of the conversation by saying that I hear what she is saying and I would give it some more thought.

W has not had the best relationship with my family for various reasons, and she knows I am working on repairing those relationships. We just had a party at our house for D18’s bday and all of the same people were there with no issues, so I had no reason to believe this would be a problem. The next day W said she did not sleep that night due to anxiety and said she had a panic attack thinking about it. She did end up making a full invite for the party and inviting friends/family from both sides. She has therapy today and said she will talk to her therapist about this.

So I have a few thoughts on this situation.

I think I did well not engaging in the stuff she was spewing. This allowed her time to come back and calmly express her feelings. And I liked that she acknowledged and apologized for yelling.
I feel like I should have initiated a conversation about the party when I decided to take the lead to make sure any issues were addressed. I think I failed there a bit. It’s hard when W doesn’t seem to care about anything, but it could have helped this situation.

Respecting how she feels has been an issue for me in the past. I would discard thoughts like this as irrational because they didn’t make sense to me. I understand anxiety a lot better now after finally experiencing it several months ago and I know that it is a confusing feeling that the person experiencing it doesn’t always understand. There is also the possibility that she is lying or exaggerating her feelings, but I don’t think that was the case.

I am not 100% sure if there are any actions I should take (talking to my family ahead of time, let W handle her anxiety on her own, etc) to help alleviate that. I’m leaning toward waiting to see how her therapist addresses it tonight and seeing if W brings it up at all. If she does, I think I’ll just say something along the lines of “It’s too late to address your concerns about my family for this birthday party, but I know these discussions are important and should happen prior to any future events where you may be around my family.”

[DW17]

Aside from that, not much else has popped up. I finished reading DR again. I was upset about the stagnation of things a few days ago, but then read in DR where Michele talks about taking a step back and trying to see any small changes. I have noticed a few.

W was proactive about being the one to handle dinner this week. It was something I was trying to figure out how to address with her, as I set a plan to split weeks and last time she didn’t follow through. Sunday she brought it up by saying “I’ve got dinner this week, right?” Problem solved.

W has actually come home at night the past several times she went out with her friends.

W has been doing a little more around the house than she was previously. Still not very helpful, but a small improvement.

She has spent a little less time hiding in the bathtub or in her bed downstairs. She ate dinner with the family twice in the past week, something she hadn’t done in months.

So small improvements. My counselor said I may be grasping at straws. Possibly. But he isn’t able to compare the past 2 weeks to her behavior prior to that. We’ll see how the next few weeks go.

Also, W invited me to go to a holiday light parade last night. She originally asked if I wanted to go today and I said she could just take the kids. This morning she said she is going next Friday and asked if I wanted to get off work early and go. I believe she is going with a friend’s family based on how she phrased it. I said I’d think about it and let her know. I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision. I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me. It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with. I feel good about the thought process, even though it’s hard not spending those moments with the kids. I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

[BL42]

DW17,

I’ve had a few things happen that I normally would have sought advice, but I’m learning how to handle these situations based on the advice I’ve already received which is nice. I feel like I get caught off guard less often.

Well done. Knowledge = power!

I told her I had invited my family and W blew up. She was mad at me for not thinking about her feelings about being around my family, she said it gives her anxiety, they haven’t been a big part of D4’s life so I shouldn’t have invited them, my selfishness confirms that she made the right decision to D, I haven’t learned anything, this was supposed to be a kid only party, etc. I just listened and kept my mouth shut.

Good job listening and keeping your mouth shut. I don't know your family dynamics, but unless they're abusive or something you have every right to invite your family to your daughter's birthday party.

In terms of the "confirms that she made the right decision to D" remember...no matter what you do WAS/WSs will say that. You get her an anniversary gift and she told you she needs space and you're not listening to her therefore she should D you; you don't get her a gift and it shows you really don't care and she should D you. She is going to use ANYTHING as evidence to validate her decision. You can not win, so don't stress on it.

The next day W said she did not sleep that night due to anxiety and said she had a panic attack thinking about it.

You did not break her, and it's not your job to fix her. Nor can you. She's choosing her path - let her deal with it.

There is also the possibility that she is lying or exaggerating her feelings, but I don’t think that was the case.

I doubt she was exaggerating and lying about her feelings - most likely they were real - doesn't mean they were based on logic and reason. So don't beat yourself up over it.

I think I’ll just say something along the lines of “It’s too late to address your concerns about my family for this birthday party, but I know these discussions are important and should happen prior to any future events where you may be around my family.”

Not bad. Refresh yourself on validation and use it - don't argue to reason about it - just listen and validate.

DW17 sounds like you're doing a good job of controlling your emotions and listening without reacting. Keep it up. Just know your W is feeling guilty and angry over what she's doing and likely projecting that onto you. Deflect it and let it roll off your back and keep smiling and living your best life.

[BL42]

DW17,

So small improvements. My counselor said I may be grasping at straws. Possibly. But he isn’t able to compare the past 2 weeks to her behavior prior to that. We’ll see how the next few weeks go.

Your counselor is probably in the near term, but you don't know how things will change over time. Remember actions over a long period of time.

I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision. I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me. It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with. I feel good about the thought process, even though it’s hard not spending those moments with the kids. I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

Good for you! Tough for a lot of newbies to not be that puppy dog.

[LH19]

I said I’d think about it and let her know.

Good but...... Thank you I already have plans is way better.

I don’t plan on going and I intend to go out with friends instead. It’s hard to say no to things like this, but I feel it’s the right decision.

Why is it hard to say "no"?

I am trying to avoid as much joint activities so W feels like she is at least missing something from me.

Exactly!

It’s a 180 for me as I’m usually the puppy dog following whatever she comes up with.

Unfortunately this most likely landed you here.

I’ve been spending a ton of time with them doing other things though, so I’ll see how this goes as well.

Enjoy your kids.

[Ready2Change]

D4’s birthday is coming up. W has not participated in any of the planning so far so I took the lead. I booked the location (a swimming pool), got the decorations picked out and invited some of my family. We have had a couple of parties here before. W and I didn’t talk much about it until Monday when W asked if I had invited anyone. I told her I had invited my family and W blew up. She was mad at me for not thinking about her feelings about being around my family...

As others say, she will be angry no matter what you do. So you do the right thing for your D.

You can "test" her with this:
"I have been thinking about what you said and I think it is best if you don't go to the pool with my family." This may (most likely will) result ina an emotional reaction (which you are fine with).

Another option is to give her a choice, She can invite her family and join you at the pool or she can celebrate in a different way at a different time with her family. Her choice. You are fine with either choice.

[DonH]

Respecting how she feels has been an issue for me in the past. I would discard thoughts like this as irrational because they didn’t make sense to me.

Of the many things you wrote, this jumped at me the most. They don’t make sense to you because they are nonsense. You can’t make sense out of nonsense. From a very distant view your wife seems to be a bit of a broken whack job. She doesn’t want grandma and grandpa at child's birthday? And this caused her to meltdown, not sleep, etc? Seems like a dream woman to live with. Has she been like this throughout the M? Then she had to run to C to unpack it all?

Don’t get drug into her drama and insanity. As I’ve asked others, is a wife like this who you want to continue to live with between now and dead?

[Kind18]

Like Steve said, the correct response to her going berserk about your family going to the pool - validate but don’t change.

Best response “Sounds like you’re upset.”

And then that’s it. Zip it. You’ve validated that she is being an irrational whack job and she feels heard, but ain’t your job to do anything about it.

Don’t add “I’ll think about it” or “perhaps I can change xyz”.

Forget trying to do anything, because to her right now, anything you try to do/say/fix/change is a waste of time.

Just reflect her own feelings back at her and then get on with your life. Her - I’m angry. You - Sounds like you’re angry. End of discussion.

Stop trying to fix things, that’s nice guy syndrome.

And if you don’t want to go out with her Friday, tell her you’ve made other plans. You seem afraid of how she might respond? You’re a grown ass man!

[DW17]

Haven’t posted in a bit, but there’s really not much to update. Had D4’s birthday party this weekend and that went well. Went out with some friends for some drinks/trivia night. Started a 12 week half marathon training schedule. Got a bit behind with reading, but hoping to catch up this week. I was trying to read 3 books at once which was a dumb plan. No more sleep issues. D4 was sick all last week so I stayed home with her. We drove around town with D18 looking at xmas lights and decorated cookies last night. It’s been an enjoyable couple of weeks.

W hasn’t really changed at all. Still mainly avoiding the family by staying downstairs. Still upsetting the kids with her lack of involvement in the family. D18 has been pretty bummed about certain things being her “lasts” since she’s off to college next year, and her mom choosing to not be part of some of these last memories has gotten to her. W is still being irrational and is occasionally still trying to gaslight/start arguments. Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten! At the birthday party W was basically just there – didn’t help with anything. It bothers me less and less each day, as I’ve come to expect nothing from her.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house. Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing. It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad. I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around. Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up? I'm not sure.

But anyway, still trying to increase my social circle. Joined a FB group of local hikers and connected with a coworker there. Once the weather is better, I’ll be doing some hikes with them. Trying to figure out plans for NYE. I might just stay home with the kids and plan a fun night. Not much else going on, just getting ready for Christmas. I hope everyone is doing well.

[LH19]

Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten!

Every wise man once said that lol.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house.

My guess is you are coming out of the denial stage.

Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing.

I would have said no but I bought myself a new shirt.

It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad.

It will be sad for a long time DW but you will feel it and move on.

I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around.

It's a great thing and will only be better once she moves out.

Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up?

You are starting to detach and accept what is happening. She will not like it and try to bait you back in.. Stay strong.

[DnJ]

Good Morning DW

I was trying to read 3 books at once which was a dumb plan.

So the stories get a bit mixed up. Lol. The orcs left Rivendell and attacks the Death Star while Neo consulted Gandalf about the future of the matrix-shire. And agent Vader-Smith found some kind of ring or something or other.

The biggest change the past few weeks has been my reactions to her behavior. I’m not sure if I don’t care anymore or what, but I feel indifferent to her even being in the house. Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing. It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad. I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around. Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up? I'm not sure.

Sounds like indifference.

Detachment is not being uncontrollable dragged around by your emotions. Indifference is feeling muted emotions or numb to the situation.

Other feelings will appear and loom large against the void of indifference. Give yourself time to acclimatize to it. Lots of temptations during this time. Avoid making major life decisions based upon emotions or lack thereof.

Indifference is temporary. Like all emotions it is fleeting, and does unwind. Feelings do return. This temporary stage is an excellent opportunity to discover yourself without the noise and distractions of W and the situation.

When you exit indifference, especially after doing some inner work, you will find detachment still remains. As well as the peace it provides.

I suspect it seems rather strange losing your feelings towards W. It’s perfectly normal. And temporary. And part of the path towards acceptance.

Take care, remain kind and compassionate, and have a Merry Christmas.

D

[Kind18]

You are a strong person DW17 and you are doing very well at DBing.

Those feelings you are noticing - you don’t have to do anything about them. Notice them, acknowledge them, ponder momentarily why you might be feeling them - and then get on with your life.

Every feeling/thought/change in life doesn’t need action. You’re going through something horrible, you’re bound to have strong feelings about it from time to time.

[BL42]

DW17,

Keep on crushing it as a dad. Even if they don't verbalize it your older kids know exactly what's up and will appreciate you were there being their rock. It's a shame W is choosing to miss out on it - she very well may regret that someday.

Every time she does this I hear “When you engage, you lose.” It’s some of the best advice I’ve gotten!

Indeed. Another great one is “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

Our 18th anniversary was yesterday and I didn’t even really care. I actually forgot about it until the afternoon. W didn’t mention it until the evening when she jokingly asked if I was going to buy her flowers and I just said no and continued with what I was doing.

I would have said no but I bought myself a new shirt.

Haha, great line.

It’s weird. Reflecting on things now, it’s kind of sad. I’m not sure if my feelings are a good thing or a bad thing, but things just seem more peaceful when W isn’t around. Much different from a few months ago when I couldn’t even sleep when she was gone. Is this how detachment feels, or am I starting to give up? I'm not sure.

It is sad. And the sadness will come and go for quite some time. But as DnJ says feelings are fleeting and they'll be happy times too.

Good you're getting more at peace with her absence. IHS is tough, no doubt. You'll get even more peace after separation. There are silver linings to a bad situation. You need to resign yourself to her decisions/actions. Just release control and go with the flow and enjoy your life regardless. Easier said than done but find that inner peace. It's odd, I was always left brain analytical thinker but understand the eastern philopshies and concepts of mindfulness and Zen a whole lot better now after BD/separation/D.

Those feelings you are noticing - you don’t have to do anything about them. Notice them, acknowledge them, ponder momentarily why you might be feeling them - and then get on with your life.

Every feeling/thought/change in life doesn’t need action. You’re going through something horrible, you’re bound to have strong feelings about it from time to time.

Agreed.

[DW17]

Wow, I didn’t realize how long it’s been since I posted. It’s felt like there wasn’t much to post about so I’ve just been following the other threads here and trying to focus my attention on myself and my kids. Then things changed the other day, but I’ll recap the past few weeks first.

Christmas and New Year’s came and went without much issue. Things seemed pretty normal. We spent Christmas with the kids and New Year’s was spent apart. W took D5 to a friend’s house and I spent it with my sister’s family. I noticed a few changes with W to start the year. For the first few days, she resembled the person that she used to be. She started taking care of some of the things for D5 and the house that she has mostly ignored for months. Sadly, this only lasted a few days and it was back to hiding on her bed or in the bath tub. Nothing seemed to trigger a change, but I do know that taking care of any “normal” responsibility seems to be draining on W’s mental energy. It’s strange. After the first few days, things went back to the weird state of limbo that I’ve lived through for the past several months.

While cleaning up on Saturday, I found a folded up piece of paper sticking out of W’s purse on the counter. I got nosy and looked at it and it is W’s notes for her plans for divorce. I think was from one of her recent therapy sessions. It’s short, so I’ll just include it all here.

1) legal separation
2) court facilitator, paperwork, time
3) guilt, guilt for the kids, fear of failure, judge
4) moving forward and more control of my life

Deserve it, believe it.

S-legal separation
M-by end of February
A- yes
R- moving forward
T-

I will file for legal separation by the end of February. I will download the paperwork and call the facilitator by Jan 20th. I will have it filled out by feb 10th and filed by feb 24th.
Suggest dispute resolution if H doesn’t agree.
Remind myself of why I am doing this and I can love myself and let them have their feelings.
Reach out to support system (4 friend’s names)
Have faith in myself. Just do it. Don’t wait.

You did it b!tch!!!

There were also a few things scribbled out that included moving out by July and saving money for moving out/legal battle.

So yeah, I’m glad I at least know what to plan for now. I was partially expecting something to happen this month or next month, just based on statistics of when people file for D (Jan-Mar). I’ve read about that and talked about it with my sister and therapist, so it’s not a complete shock despite things seeming stagnant for a while. I was expecting W to keep this info to herself, but Sunday morning she asked to talk for a minute before my run and she said she would need my retirement info because she has to get with the court facilitator this week. D18 told me later that day that W had told her Saturday night that she would be filing for D in February. She also asked D18 if it would be weird if she went on dates. W said it was awkward and didn’t answer. So that’s where things currently stand.

My emotions have been in check. I wasn’t angry or sad or anything, just disappointed I guess. I’m planning on retaining one of the lawyers that I previously spoke with to have things squared away on my end and I’ll get her my retirement info today. I know that W planning something is not the same as her actually following through with it, but her semi-specific plans and an almost complete SMART goal is as close as it gets to that, especially for her. She has not really expressed her thoughts on the important stuff such as where our kids will go, where our four pets will go, what we are doing with the house, etc. She did mention that her friend who divorced last year kept her house in lieu of taking half her H’s retirement. I’m not sure if that is W’s hope, but that does not work for our situation. She also is under the impression that a judge might make her move out after filing. Not sure where that is coming from as I don’t believe there is any validity to it, but I’ll help you pack!

I have still been focused on GAL stuff. I am starting week 6 of 12 training for my first half marathon. I finished reading “Getting Back Together” - decent book for people trying to understand what’s going on right after DB. Almost done with a book called “Switch”, which is about making sustained changes in life. More professional changes than personal ones. It’s a decent book, but not really what I am interested in at this moment. I’ve still been spending as much time as I can with the kids, friends and family. Getting ready for an out of state trip for a soccer tournament for D18. I booked my own hotel. Saturday W asked if we are staying in the same hotel to split costs. I said no, I was not planning on that. It was ironic considering she is planning to file for D three days after we return. I didn’t know that yet when I answered her, but I’m glad I didn’t say yes. There’s a daddy-daughter dance I’m going to in a few weeks. Had to cancel a show I was going to this week because of work, but I’m going to keep seeking things out to keep busy.

I feel dumb for taking so long to post again. Nothing seemed notable enough to post. It’s probably hard to follow along with big time gaps. I should be more consistent with posting, especially in light of the new info. I am still following along with the posts here. Doug54, there seems to be a lot of similarities. IHS is a pain, but hang in there man. I hope everyone is doing well!

[BL42]

DW17,

Your W should read up on SMART. Her M should be a T. Anyway...

Sorry to hear about W's plans. I know the feeling. Such hurt and sadness these situations bring everyone involved. Hopefully being aware of it will help you prepare and manage your emotions which you said you've been able to keep in check so good for you.

Glad to hear you're going to retain an L. You do not have to share any other financial information with W until the legal process plays out, so maybe the retirement plan info doesn't hurt to share and will help keep things less antagonistic, but I wouldn't just hand over any information she requests. Remember it's a business negotiation and knowledge equals power.

Not sure the financial implications or your W's perspective but because you have kids if I were you I'd keep the family house if you can swing it. If you've been there awhile it'll be there home and they'll have to "visit mommys". Maybe just a mindset thing, but you'll be the default home base.

Great job on the 1/2 marathon, GAL, and reading. Keep it up.

No need to feel dumb for taking long to post - I often respond so quickly on others' threads but let my own build up - just know we're here to help.

[BL42]

3) guilt, guilt for the kids, fear of failure, judge

Remind myself of why I am doing this and I can love myself and let them have their feelings.

Btw...typical WAS/WS BS. Just trying to justify to themselves their bad actions and hurt they're causing others. Don't buy into it.

[Mach1]

Wow, I didn’t realize how long it’s been since I posted. It’s felt like there wasn’t much to post about so I’ve just been following the other threads here and trying to focus my attention on myself and my kids. Then things changed the other day, but I’ll recap the past few weeks first.

Christmas and New Year’s came and went without much issue. Things seemed pretty normal. We spent Christmas with the kids and New Year’s was spent apart. W took D5 to a friend’s house and I spent it with my sister’s family. I noticed a few changes with W to start the year. For the first few days, she resembled the person that she used to be. She started taking care of some of the things for D5 and the house that she has mostly ignored for months. Sadly, this only lasted a few days and it was back to hiding on her bed or in the bath tub. Nothing seemed to trigger a change, but I do know that taking care of any “normal” responsibility seems to be draining on W’s mental energy. It’s strange. After the first few days, things went back to the weird state of limbo that I’ve lived through for the past several months.

While cleaning up on Saturday, I found a folded up piece of paper sticking out of W’s purse on the counter. I got nosy and looked at it and it is W’s notes for her plans for divorce. I think was from one of her recent therapy sessions. It’s short, so I’ll just include it all here.

1) legal separation
2) court facilitator, paperwork, time
3) guilt, guilt for the kids, fear of failure, judge
4) moving forward and more control of my life

Deserve it, believe it.

S-legal separation
M-by end of February
A- yes
R- moving forward
T-

I will file for legal separation by the end of February. I will download the paperwork and call the facilitator by Jan 20th. I will have it filled out by feb 10th and filed by feb 24th.
Suggest dispute resolution if H doesn’t agree.
Remind myself of why I am doing this and I can love myself and let them have their feelings.
Reach out to support system (4 friend’s names)
Have faith in myself. Just do it. Don’t wait.

You did it b!tch!!!

There were also a few things scribbled out that included moving out by July and saving money for moving out/legal battle.

So yeah, I’m glad I at least know what to plan for now. I was partially expecting something to happen this month or next month, just based on statistics of when people file for D (Jan-Mar). I’ve read about that and talked about it with my sister and therapist, so it’s not a complete shock despite things seeming stagnant for a while. I was expecting W to keep this info to herself, but Sunday morning she asked to talk for a minute before my run and she said she would need my retirement info because she has to get with the court facilitator this week. D18 told me later that day that W had told her Saturday night that she would be filing for D in February. She also asked D18 if it would be weird if she went on dates. W said it was awkward and didn’t answer. So that’s where things currently stand.

My emotions have been in check. I wasn’t angry or sad or anything, just disappointed I guess. I’m planning on retaining one of the lawyers that I previously spoke with to have things squared away on my end and I’ll get her my retirement info today. I know that W planning something is not the same as her actually following through with it, but her semi-specific plans and an almost complete SMART goal is as close as it gets to that, especially for her. She has not really expressed her thoughts on the important stuff such as where our kids will go, where our four pets will go, what we are doing with the house, etc. She did mention that her friend who divorced last year kept her house in lieu of taking half her H’s retirement. I’m not sure if that is W’s hope, but that does not work for our situation. She also is under the impression that a judge might make her move out after filing. Not sure where that is coming from as I don’t believe there is any validity to it, but I’ll help you pack!

I have still been focused on GAL stuff. I am starting week 6 of 12 training for my first half marathon. I finished reading “Getting Back Together” - decent book for people trying to understand what’s going on right after DB. Almost done with a book called “Switch”, which is about making sustained changes in life. More professional changes than personal ones. It’s a decent book, but not really what I am interested in at this moment. I’ve still been spending as much time as I can with the kids, friends and family. Getting ready for an out of state trip for a soccer tournament for D18. I booked my own hotel. Saturday W asked if we are staying in the same hotel to split costs. I said no, I was not planning on that. It was ironic considering she is planning to file for D three days after we return. I didn’t know that yet when I answered her, but I’m glad I didn’t say yes. There’s a daddy-daughter dance I’m going to in a few weeks. Had to cancel a show I was going to this week because of work, but I’m going to keep seeking things out to keep busy.

I feel dumb for taking so long to post again. Nothing seemed notable enough to post. It’s probably hard to follow along with big time gaps. I should be more consistent with posting, especially in light of the new info. I am still following along with the posts here. Doug54, there seems to be a lot of similarities. IHS is a pain, but hang in there man. I hope everyone is doing well!

Nothing that you found or read is NEW information....

Feel it and get back on your horse cowboy...

This shouldn't change your course at all....

[DW17]

Not sure the financial implications or your W's perspective but because you have kids if I were you I'd keep the family house if you can swing it.

This has been the thing I’ve been most focused on finding a solution to. It’s tough because of the large amount of equity in the house. I’d have to pay a lot for a buyout so I have to get creative in finding out how I can do that. If we have to sell, yeah I’ll get some money, but I’d also have to downgrade my home significantly. Would not make sense to buy right now with interest rates and inflated home prices, and renting is something I was never expecting to do again. My current mortgage for a 4 bed, 2.5 bath 2800 sqft home is equivalent to a 2 bed 1 bath apartment in my area right now. I absolutely do not want that downgrade, especially when I anticipate having less money after paying alimony. I would hope a judge would be sympathetic to pulling D5 from the only home she’s ever lived in (she was homeless after birth until being placed in foster care with us at 4 months old). I’ve seen examples of people staying on the mortgage together while living apart, with an agreement to sell/buy out after a set time, typically around 3 years. Something like that could work if W is open to it. Aside from getting a minimum 50/50 custody of D5, keeping the house is my next highest priority.

Nothing that you found or read is NEW information....

Feel it and get back on your horse cowboy...

This shouldn't change your course at all....

Agreed. Not new information, just new timeframes maybe? I have expected this for a while and have been able to think through different scenarios. I think it just puts more urgency on me to have my plans solidified, which is probably a good thing anyway.

I don’t necessarily feel as if I have gotten off my horse. My course remains the same – continue my daily quest toward being a better person, keep being the best dad I can be and make sure myself and my kids remain my top priority. Only control what I can control. Keep learning and evolving. Keep enjoying life. Keep maintaining the renewed relationships with friends and family that make me feel good about each day and my future. Keep striving to build new friendships and taking time for the little things that I enjoy that I used to fail to prioritize.

[DW17]

I can feel W questioning things right now. She has been teetering between acting the same as she has for the past 8 months (man, time has flown by) and checking if I'm still a viable backup plan if the fantasy life she is seeking falls apart. Some examples:

Last weekend she asked me if I'd ever ask her to marry me again. I got caught off guard and responded with “that’s a pretty heavy question” and shifted to something else.

She came up behind me and hugged me while I was washing dishes and asked why I wouldn't hug her. I said I had to go get my laundry and left the room.

Multiple times she has cheerfully asked if I needed anything, another thing she hasn’t cared about for months. It feels like when a waitress is overly happy with you and you know it’s fake.

The other day she dropped an ILY multiple times in a joking manner, like she was waiting for me to say ILY too. She was trying to gauge my reaction. I don't think she has said this since probably May. It's been so long I don't even remember. Again, I was caught off guard and just didn’t respond.

She is doing this while simultaneously doing even more of the opposite than usual. She has gotten more visibly angry when she has gotten upset about something. She went out T and W to “hang out with a friend” who she mentioned by name to D18 (It’s a different person than OM who I don’t know), multiple times this week she has asked D18 her thoughts about W going on dates. Yesterday she asked D18 to take care of D6 this morning because she was going out and had no plans of coming home. This isn’t new as she goes out every weekend and “stays at her gf’s house”, but I had to work today so I wasn’t going to be home when D6 woke up. I know she’s lying about where she’s staying and I’ve accepted it as a lie for several months now. All of this in addition to her meeting with a court facilitator to move forward with D.

This whole thing has felt like a rollercoaster, but the past week it’s like the peaks and drops are more extreme. I don’t think my reaction to any of it has changed though. My reaction to the peaks has been keeping my mouth shut and finding something else to do. I’ve ignored the drops, other than making sure D18 was okay.

I’m proud of how I’ve handled things without getting emotional one way or another. Part of me is starting to get excited about the possibilities that lie ahead for my future. But another part of me expects W to crash at some point, likely months to years after we split and it’s hard trying to decide if it’s worth waiting to see if/when that happens. I know I have to ignore it because it’s out of my control.

[LH19]

Run in the complete opposite direction and never look back!

[job]

Continue moving forward. You have a life to live and that means going forward and not looking back in the rearview mirror.

If and when your spouse wakes up, that will be the time to decide whether you want to reconcile and/or just continue on with your life as it is at that time. Leave her in God's hands for he will continue to work on her and who knows...she just may bake up into a totally different, more mature person.

Some eventually wake up and others will continue on the path of self-destruction and/or bitter, angry people who continue to feel entitled to the day that pass away. None of us can predict what will take place. That's why it is very, very important that you do not put your life on hold and continue to ask yourself "what if".

BTW, it has taken my xh to finally reach out 22 1/2 years later to apologize for his selfish behavior, etc. I just wanted to provide you with an example of how long some of them take to apologize. Some never do.

Continue to focus on you and your life. You only have the one life, live it to the fullest. The past is in the rearview mirror and there's nothing you can do to change it, the present is a gift. A gift that you can work on and plan for the future. The future is not ours to predict, but we sure can start thinking about it and hope that we can fulfill our dreams along the way.

[Kind18]

I can feel W questioning things right now. She has been teetering between acting the same as she has for the past 8 months (man, time has flown by) and checking if I'm still a viable backup plan if the fantasy life she is seeking falls apart.

Why not flip the script?

Why don’t YOU file?

You know it’s coming eventually from her. She has it all planned out. She’s just terribly disorganised like they all are. But some time in February you know it’s going to happen. She might spend another month or so playing these BS games where she hugs or or says ILY.

I couldn’t stand being in permanent limbo with someone who is treating me like a cat playing with a dead mouse, and checking if her monkey branch is holding solid.

Make sure you don’t live in an at-fault jurisdiction, and then take your power back.

[Kind18]

Keeping a copy of that plan in her purse would be a smart move too.

[BL42]

DW17,

Last weekend she asked me if I'd ever ask her to marry me again. I got caught off guard and responded with “that’s a pretty heavy question” and shifted to something else.

"Um...we are married?"

It feels like when a waitress is overly happy with you and you know it’s fake.

I definitely know all about the overly happy laughing way too loud to be genuine. You should hear ExW at S7's games.

The other day she dropped an ILY multiple times in a joking manner, like she was waiting for me to say ILY too. She was trying to gauge my reaction. I don't think she has said this since probably May. It's been so long I don't even remember. Again, I was caught off guard and just didn’t respond.

I'm curious what folks think about the "marry me again" / hugs / ILYs. I never got anything close to those. Better than getting hooked and being needy for sure, but perhaps there's a more attractive way to respond than ignoring?

I’m proud of how I’ve handled things without getting emotional one way or another. Part of me is starting to get excited about the possibilities that lie ahead for my future. But another part of me expects W to crash at some point, likely months to years after we split and it’s hard trying to decide if it’s worth waiting to see if/when that happens. I know I have to ignore it because it’s out of my control.

Keep up the good work DW17. You are the dad your kids deserve.

[Ready2Change]

I'm curious what folks think about the "marry me again" / hugs / ILYs. I never got anything close to those. Better than getting hooked and being needy for sure, but perhaps there's a more attractive way to respond than ignoring?

I like the idea of using body language, facial expressions, and tone. There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

Last weekend she asked me if I'd ever ask her to marry me again. I got caught off guard and responded with “that’s a pretty heavy question” and shifted to something else.

"Nope, only plan on being married once. Too bad it didn't work out" There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

She came up behind me and hugged me while I was washing dishes and asked why I wouldn't hug her. I said I had to go get my laundry and left the room.

"I might turn you on and I don't want to give you the wrong impression." There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

The other day she dropped an ILY multiple times in a joking manner, like she was waiting for me to say ILY too.

I would respond differently every time. "i can tell..too bad you can't have me" or "Ya, you want to show me how much you love me?" or "I love you more!" There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

Those were just off the top of my head.



Humor, confidence, sexual insinuations, cocky, etc...

I really don't know how one could learn these skills without practice.


Passing "hsit tests" is an art and a skill.

[DW17]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Why not flip the script?

Why don’t YOU file?

You know it’s coming eventually from her. She has it all planned out. She’s just terribly disorganised like they all are. But some time in February you know it’s going to happen. She might spend another month or so playing these BS games where she hugs or or says ILY.

I couldn’t stand being in permanent limbo with someone who is treating me like a cat playing with a dead mouse, and checking if her monkey branch is holding solid.

Make sure you don’t live in an at-fault jurisdiction, and then take your power back.

I’ve spent some time thinking about this and will continue thinking about it. For me, it’s a debate between taking my power by filing first and taking my power by forcing her to be the one to pull the trigger on our 22 year relationship. I told my kids initially that I’d give it a year and I’d give my best effort to make it work. That means a lot to me as well. Plans do change, but I want my kids to know that I did as much as I could.

I'm curious what folks think about the "marry me again" / hugs / ILYs. I never got anything close to those. Better than getting hooked and being needy for sure, but perhaps there's a more attractive way to respond than ignoring?

I haven’t gotten any hugs/ILYs/etc pretty much this entire time. Maybe a hug or two several months ago, but that’s it. And even those were just comforting hugs when something sad was going on. I know I should have responded more attractively than “uh oh…don’t know what to do….get away from me”, but I was completely caught off guard. It’s pretty funny in hindsight.

R2C, thanks for your suggestions on how to approach some of these situations. I’m normally pretty good at responding in an attractive way so now that I know to possibly expect these interactions, I’ll be less awkward next time.

This week I intend to meet with one more lawyer before I commit to one. The one I reached out to hasn’t returned my messages, which is probably a red flag despite the reviews she has online. I’ll have that sorted out by tomorrow.

[DW17]

Reading through Doug54's thread and it made me think of a few more things.

Ran into one of W's friends while out today and she remarked to me, unsolicited, "So, (W) is going crazy, huh? Midlife crisis?" You can't make this stuff up. This was an old friend whom W had somewhat reconnected with a little. I said "You can tell? I thought it was just me."

I just had this same experience this weekend, only W’s friend added that it seems like W never grew up. It’s weird how everyone else notices the changes except the one going through MLC. They surround themselves with people who won’t questions things, people who are struggling themselves.

D18 had a soccer game this weekend and her bf’s parents were there. W told me that the bf’s mom came up to her at half time and asked if she was doing okay because she had heard W was not doing well. W said she responded that she is doing great and living her best life and seemed genuinely dumbfounded that anyone would think otherwise. She is depressed, doesn’t sleep, doesn’t spend time with her kids, lost a bunch of weight because she barely eats (zero exercise), spends 2 hours/day in the bathtub, her 18 yr marriage is about to end, etc…and she still tries to convince herself she’s living her best life.

W also asked me why my mom no longer comments on her FB posts with pics of the kids now that she found out we were separating. I said I didn’t know but I should check on my mom since I hadn’t spoken to her in a bit. W never had a great relationship with my mom. I know W’s expectation of post-D life is rainbows and unicorns, but it was weird that she seemed confused by this. W only has a few family members that live here (parents, sister, 1 nephew), so maybe it’s related to losing the rest of the people she could still consider family. Who knows, that’s for her to figure out. But it was interesting to think about.

[BL42]

DW17,

Last weekend she asked me if I'd ever ask her to marry me again. I got caught off guard and responded with “that’s a pretty heavy question” and shifted to something else.

"Nope, only plan on being married once. Too bad it didn't work out" There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

She came up behind me and hugged me while I was washing dishes and asked why I wouldn't hug her. I said I had to go get my laundry and left the room.

"I might turn you on and I don't want to give you the wrong impression." There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

The other day she dropped an ILY multiple times in a joking manner, like she was waiting for me to say ILY too.

I would respond differently every time. "i can tell..too bad you can't have me" or "Ya, you want to show me how much you love me?" or "I love you more!" There would definitely be a twinkle in my eye and slight grin. Wink and a walk away. Confident and happy.

R2C is nailing these responses. You can see how light and fun and flirty they are. It's hard not to act hurt when you are a hurt LBS in IHS, but better to be playful and attractive.

Humor, confidence, sexual insinuations, cocky, etc...

I really don't know how one could learn these skills without practice.

Passing "hsit tests" is an art and a skill.

R2C do you respond like that to ExW? Wonder if you practice on her just to make her wonder what she threw away.

Why not flip the script?

Why don’t YOU file?

I’ve spent some time thinking about this and will continue thinking about it. For me, it’s a debate between taking my power by filing first and taking my power by forcing her to be the one to pull the trigger on our 22 year relationship. I told my kids initially that I’d give it a year and I’d give my best effort to make it work. That means a lot to me as well. Plans do change, but I want my kids to know that I did as much as I could.

Don't rush into anything DW17. I totally get the flip the script and take back the power, and part of me wishes I had packed up then-W's things in some boxes during affair/IHS and left them out on the porch for her, but on the other hand you want to be able to say to your kids and yourself you didn't give up. It's a hard decision, not one you need to race into.

I know I should have responded more attractively than “uh oh…don’t know what to do….get away from me”, but I was completely caught off guard.

Understandable. Most of us wouldn't be prepared for that either. Study what R2C is saying though...

[DW17]

I'm curious what folks think about the "marry me again" / hugs / ILYs.

Well I think I got my answer, or at least part of it, courtesy of D18. She said W was talking to her in the car the other day and said she was going to kill me with kindness because she is about to break my heart. W has been noticeably nicer the past week or so, but this is the exact reason you guys say not to get hopes up after positive interactions. You never know the actual motive behind the behavior.

It's weird to me that W is pretending to care about breaking my heart. She did that months ago by being unfaithful again and turning into a terrible mother to my kids. My broken heart has been healing as I’ve tried to accept her as the person she actually is rather than the person I wish she was. I know feelings change, but I don’t know that I’ll feel anything other than disappointment toward her.

Yesterday I decided to drive to the final lawyer that I wanted to speak with, rather than leaving another message. I’m glad I did. We talked for about an hour, she didn’t charge me anything and she was more helpful than the first two I spoke with. She recommended that I try to negotiate with W first and if I need her to look over any paperwork or anything, she will just bill me for that time. I’ve got some things to sort out this week, but I feel much better finding a L that I’m comfortable with. I didn’t get a good vibe from the other ones.

[LH19]

Well I think I got my answer, or at least part of it, courtesy of D18. She said W was talking to her in the car the other day and said she was going to kill me with kindness because she is about to break my heart. W has been noticeably nicer the past week or so, but this is the exact reason you guys say not to get hopes up after positive interactions. You never know the actual motive behind the behavior.

Truthfully she probably doesn't like breaking your heart but won't let that keep her from preventing her PERCEIVED happiness.

It's weird to me that W is pretending to care about breaking my heart. She did that months ago by being unfaithful again and turning into a terrible mother to my kids.

So ask yourself what are you trying to save DW?

My broken heart has been healing as I’ve tried to accept her as the person she actually is rather than the person I wish she was. I know feelings change, but I don’t know that I’ll feel anything other than disappointment toward her.

Why are you disappointed in her?

She recommended that I try to negotiate with W first and if I need her to look over any paperwork or anything, she will just bill me for that time.

You have a good lawyer! Negotiate while she is feeling guilty because that won't last long.

[DW17]

So ask yourself what are you trying to save DW?

At this point, I don’t think I’m trying to save anything. It’s been a slow journey to the realization that I’ll be better without her. I know that feelings change, but I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about some of the questions I’ve been asked here, particularly why I would want to be with this person. I have accepted a few things – It is very likely that I will never truly trust W again and I cannot be in a relationship without trust. It is very unlikely that W will change. She is a broken person from a broken background. She does not take accountability for her faults and likely never will. She does not love herself. I do not trust her to ever put in the work required for self-improvement. This is who she always has been and likely who she will continue to be. Nothing from our 22 years together suggests to me that she will work on any of this.

Despite all of this, a big part of me would love to be the one to help her through it. I have faults that contributed to this situation. But I also know that her upbringing, which she did not get to choose, is something that will cause her problems for the rest of her life. I feel like I know her better than anyone else ever will and that I would be able to help her overcome these issues. I also know that she fired me from that job.

Why are you disappointed in her?

I guess it’s not disappointment toward her as much as disappointment in the situation. It all seems so unnecessary. Being in a relationship and having kids at a young age set me up for this to some degree, but this entire situation seems like something that IC and a few good books 20 years ago could have easily prevented.

You have a good lawyer! Negotiate while she is feeling guilty because that won't last long.

I will spend time thinking about this and how I would approach the situation.

[Rockon]

DW,

“ Despite all of this, a big part of me would love to be the one to help her through it. I have faults that contributed to this situation. But I also know that her upbringing, which she did not get to choose, is something that will cause her problems for the rest of her life. I feel like I know her better than anyone else ever will and that I would be able to help her overcome these issues. I also know that she fired me from that job.”

Does she know this and feel this? Have you shown/communicated and been consistent in your own work to be her husband? I know she fired you. I’m on that same page in my sitch. I don’t have the answers for saving my marriage let alone yours. So these are somewhat rhetorical questions for my own process.

Panel of esteemed vets and newbies. Your thoughts? And I like the idea of early timely negotiating.

[LH19]

I don’t have the answers for saving my marriage let alone yours.

How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it.

Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes your w and her boyfriend together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your wife back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.

Have you shown/communicated and been consistent in your own work to be her husband?

Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to prove your love to her?

I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that she fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?

I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.

If you pour your heart out and nothing changes, what comes next?

There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your wife back.

I'm sorry.

[Ready2Change]

R2C do you respond like that to ExW? Wonder if you practice on her just to make her wonder what she threw away.

Short answer is we do not interact. I have been in a committed relationship for 12+ years. I believe it would be disrespectful to my lady.

[DW17]

Does she know this and feel this? Have you shown/communicated and been consistent in your own work to be her husband? I know she fired you. I’m on that same page in my sitch. I don’t have the answers for saving my marriage let alone yours. So these are somewhat rhetorical questions for my own process.

I think if she felt that I was the one to help her, we’d be working on our relationship right now rather than being on the verge of D. I accept my role in her feeling that way, but I understand there is a lot more to it that I am not responsible for and cannot control.

Early on I explained my thoughts and feelings. I did not continue to reiterate them because she already knew how I felt. That was advice I received here. She hasn’t once asked how I feel about things and she has surrounded herself with people who won’t question her feelings. There is no amount of talking I can do at this time to make her question them herself.

I was not always consistent in my work as a husband throughout our marriage, but my guess is that’s why a lot of us are here. However, it takes two people for a marriage to dissolve and two to put it back together. I can only control one side of that. I have been consistent in my role as a parent and I have been consistent in working to better myself. This has helped me move toward the man I want to be.

[Rockon]

This makes a lot of sense and is how I see my sitch as well. I don’t believe there is more for me to say or convince. Done

[Kind18]

She does not take accountability for her faults and likely never will. She does not love herself. I do not trust her to ever put in the work required for self-improvement.

This is the most accurate statement you’ll ever find on this website.

All of us who arrive here share the same pathology.

We are committed to our relationship, we are prepared to fix, improve, practice, reset and work on ourselves and our relationship.

Our partners are not. Either because of an affair, or MLC, or trauma or any other reason.

So we have a dynamic where one person is in, and one person is out. The person who is out, however, doesn’t want it to be their fault. They don’t want to look themselves in the mirror and see a bad person.

So they blame us, and being fixers, we end up here at DB.com desperately seeking answers, living in fear and trying work out what to say/do/be.

It is VERY rare to find someone who comes here who was a genuinely BAD and terrible spouse.

While you could probably count on one hand the number of LBS here whose spouse weren’t in an active affair (EA or PA), you’ll find it even less likely for a WAS/WS to accept responsibility for treating us poorly, breaking their vow or hurting their kids’ future.

It’s just the way it is. I wouldn’t say she “likely never will” take accountability for her her faults… I’d say you’re more likely to win a $100million dollar lottery.

LBS who accept this will be much happier.

[DW17]

I've got a something I could use some advice on. D18 has an out of state soccer tournament in a few weeks. Airplane tickets are already paid for and I've booked a hotel. A few weeks ago W asked if we were booking together or separate and I said separate. She said "That's weird, but whatever."

As the date gets closer, I've started to rethink whether it makes sense to do things separately for a few different reasons.

1. None of the parents on the team know what’s going on with W and I and I’m worried about the awkwardness having to explain it right now. Some of the parents I barely know, but others I’ve known for 10+ years. The coach is a good friend of ours. It feels like the wrong time/place to have this out in the open.

2. The cost savings of not paying for 2 hotel rooms and 2 rental cars (D18 is staying with teammates at a different hotel that is fully booked).

3. I feel my emotional state is detached enough that it won’t be an issue for me emotionally.

W has not booked a hotel room yet and is getting concerned about costs. D18 knows this and I explained to her that I do have a room with 2 beds in case W completely drops the ball. I don’t want W to miss D18’s last tournament regardless of what’s going on with us.

So those are some of the reasons why I’m rethinking things. I am still reminding myself why I said no in the first place. She’s actively pursuing D and is supposed to file right after we get back. She keeps digging herself a hole financially and it’s not my job to fix that.

Another wrench in the situation is that D18 injured her leg in practice last week and we aren’t sure she will even be able to play. If she can’t play, I’m not going, which makes this entire thought process a bit of a waste.

There have been a few things this week that I’m trying not to read too far in to.

W keeps leaving notes from her counseling laying around. I shouldn’t be reading them, but it’s almost like they are left out for me to see. The first one was her D plan that I mentioned a few weeks ago. Last week mentioned a fear of letting me and the kids down and disrupting our lives. It also mentioned that she felt compassion when I listened to her talk about nightmares she was having and that I listen and understand when she talks to me.

This week was a list of things about me she is grateful for. It included things like being a great dad, taking care of my family the best way I knew how, me working on my mental health and making improvements, my communication, my listening and being a hard worker. I have no clue what to think of that and it isn’t beneficial for me to spend time analyzing it, but it is a change from the minimal feedback I got from her earlier counseling sessions that were just about all of my faults and how she deserves to be happy.

It feels wrong reading through these notes, but it’s hard not to when they are just laying out on the counter.

W has been way more pleasant lately, telling me to have a good day, thanking me for things, etc. She even played a card game with me and D5 last night which she hasn’t done in forever. D5 said “I’m so happy we are playing as a family. I wish we could do this every day.” I am aware of what she told D18 a few weeks ago-

W was talking to her in the car the other day and said she was going to kill me with kindness because she is about to break my heart. W has been noticeably nicer the past week or so, but this is the exact reason you guys say not to get hopes up after positive interactions. You never know the actual motive behind the behavior.

I haven’t gotten any more ILY’s or questions about whether I’d ask her to marry me again. She did have an emotional morning Monday as we had to put one of our cats down. She hugged me and later sent a text thanking me for being there for her and saying that it meant a lot knowing that she still had me for the hardest parts in life. I took that as a negative, like she her feels I will always be there no matter what. Um….not if we aren’t married!

Longer post than I was expecting, but it’s been an interesting week. Maybe it’s the roller coaster of emotions changing again, I don’t know. But I’m still just plugging along. I’m reading The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, I’m on week 8 of my half marathon prep and getting ready for a daddy daughter dance with D5 this weekend. Any advice on the travel situation would be appreciated.

[Rockon]

Very interested in how you approach this and I don’t have advice. So many similarities in my sitch. W is doing/saying similar kinds of sentiments (she sent a text acknowledging and appreciating what I have been doing for our family etc and she has been proposing family activities) but she recently went away on a trip that I assume was with OM and she has been not giving any indication she wants to come back to the M. I am moving in the opposite direction, not engaging, not pursuing, focusing in me and kids and GAL.

[LH19]

I summarize for you guys "loss of attraction". You have been instructed how to get it back. It's up to you to implement. Until you do expect many years of the same treatment.

[DW17]

LH, I hear you. Seems I just needed a reminder.

At some point W has to actually feel like she has lost something. I should not interrupt that process, regardless of the circumstance. While she goes through whatever she's going through, I should continue to focus on me.

Assuming D18 is healed up, I'll go down there and have a bunch of fun. It's a place I've never been with nice weather and lots of things to explore besides watching soccer.

If this plays out like most of the other things I've spent time thinking about that I shouldn't have, D18 won't be healed and I won't even be going down there. But this does serve as a good reminder to stay on track. Thanks.

(Side note from re-reading my previous post - I didn't get 2 beds just in case W needed one. That was all that was available.)

[Mach1]

So I'm gonna ask you this, because I don't do the whole day by day thing....

She fired you as her Husband...

She wants out of the marriage..

She continually lies to you...

She is actively involved in an affair...



And you think that paying for, and spending the weekend in a Hotel room with her, is your best option ???


(I'm gonna be over here in the corner, eating soup with a fork, waiting for an answer that makes sense )

[DW17]

Well, when you put it that way lol.

We would have been splitting the costs for the hotel/car but that’s a moot point now. I'm not going down that road. Just needed to be talked out of it while my thoughts were starting to veer. So I appreciate it.

I have not talked with W about any of this. She's complained about a few things and mentioned she needs to get a hotel. That’s her problem, not mine.

[Mach1]

Well, when you put it that way lol.

We would have been splitting the costs for the hotel/car but that’s a moot point now. I'm not going down that road. Just needed to be talked out of it while my thoughts were starting to veer. So I appreciate it.

I have not talked with W about any of this. She's complained about a few things and mentioned she needs to get a hotel. That’s her problem, not mine.

Is there another way to put it ?

I dunno...

There isn't anything to talk about....

And if she assumes that you are gonna snuggle up and watch cartoons....well, that's on her...

You are giving her exactly what she has asked for...

Which, BTW, is gonna pi$$ her off too....

So, she's jacked up either way...

Would you rather her be upset with you working toward you, or her ??

If you go into that shared room, she is gonna turn the heat up because she is going to assume that you are expecting sex..even if you aren't.


I'm gonna vote for a nice peaceful weekend with you eating M&M's on the vibrating bed, alone, in your SpongeBob PJ's.....

: )

[Ready2Change]

I've got a something I could use some advice on. D18 has an out of state soccer tournament in a few weeks. Airplane tickets are already paid for and I've booked a hotel. A few weeks ago W asked if we were booking together or separate and I said separate..... D18 injured her leg in practice last week and we aren’t sure she will even be able to play. If she can’t play, I’m not going,

My 2 cents:

During my volleyball dad days, The injured girls still went and watched and supported the other girls by cheering on the sidelines. Same if they had bad grades. Bad grades= not play buy still sit on the sideline and support the other girls. I strongly suggest you go no matter what. Have a great time with your daughter and the other parents. Some of the best times we had were drinking with the other parents in the hotel rooms. Don't be boring.


As far as your words "I said separate"...have some resolve on your word and boundaries. You made a decision, it really should change unless you made a mistake and it was the wrong decision. Your gut will tell you if it is the right decision.

[DW17]

You are giving her exactly what she has asked for...

This is something I need to keep in mind. She asked for this. She wants a divorce. She wants relationships with people other than me. She does not get to cake eat too.

Eating M&M's alone on the bed in pajamas is pretty similar to W's daily routine. I'd rather be out socializing and having drinks at the team's hotel down the street or exploring the area. I enjoy checking out places I've never been, so I'm pretty excited.

[DW17]

R2C, thanks for your input. And I agree, I said separate for a reason and I shouldn't back away from that.

As far as still going even if D18 doesn't play, I see where you're coming from. The tournaments she's played in where we have had to stay in hotels are some of my favorite memories of her playing soccer. And you're right, drinks in the bar/rooms/whatever outdoor space we could find were always a lot of fun. I know it will be fun. I'll keep thinking about it.

[LH19]

I'd rather be out socializing and having drinks at the team's hotel down the street or exploring the area. I enjoy checking out places I've never been, so I'm pretty excited.

If you a put 100% focus on this........

This is something I need to keep in mind. She asked for this. She wants a divorce. She wants relationships with people other than me. She does not get to cake eat too.

and 0% focus on this.........

Eating M&M's alone on the bed in pajamas is pretty similar to W's daily routine.

and this...........

You will be fine within a year. You go the other way with it and you will continue to suffer immensely.

[BL42]

R2C do you respond like that to ExW? Wonder if you practice on her just to make her wonder what she threw away.

Short answer is we do not interact. I have been in a committed relationship for 12+ years. I believe it would be disrespectful to my lady.

Makes sense R2C, I respect that. Good answer.

She does not take accountability for her faults and likely never will. She does not love herself. I do not trust her to ever put in the work required for self-improvement.

This is the most accurate statement you’ll ever find on this website.

All of us who arrive here share the same pathology.

We are committed to our relationship, we are prepared to fix, improve, practice, reset and work on ourselves and our relationship.

Our partners are not. Either because of an affair, or MLC, or trauma or any other reason.

So we have a dynamic where one person is in, and one person is out. The person who is out, however, doesn’t want it to be their fault. They don’t want to look themselves in the mirror and see a bad person.

So they blame us, and being fixers, we end up here at DB.com desperately seeking answers, living in fear and trying work out what to say/do/be.

It is VERY rare to find someone who comes here who was a genuinely BAD and terrible spouse.

While you could probably count on one hand the number of LBS here whose spouse weren’t in an active affair (EA or PA), you’ll find it even less likely for a WAS/WS to accept responsibility for treating us poorly, breaking their vow or hurting their kids’ future.

It’s just the way it is. I wouldn’t say she “likely never will” take accountability for her her faults… I’d say you’re more likely to win a $100million dollar lottery.

LBS who accept this will be much happier.

Great post, Kind18.

I'd rather be out socializing and having drinks at the team's hotel down the street or exploring the area. I enjoy checking out places I've never been, so I'm pretty excited.

If you a put 100% focus on this........

This is something I need to keep in mind. She asked for this. She wants a divorce. She wants relationships with people other than me. She does not get to cake eat too.

and 0% focus on this.........

Eating M&M's alone on the bed in pajamas is pretty similar to W's daily routine.

and this...........

You will be fine within a year. You go the other way with it and you will continue to suffer immensely.

Great post, LH19

DW17 - How's D18's leg doing? Hope it heels and you get to go on the trip. A lot of times we speculate about the details of making something go perfectly in the future and then those anxieties or fears don't come to fruition anyway. I vote go, have a blast with the other families and continue to cultivate your relationship with D's friends and their family. Let W eat M&Ms alone if she wants and don't give worry about her logistics one bit.

[DW17]

I’m glad I got some sense knocked into me yesterday regarding the upcoming travel plans because W asked about it last night. She asked me if we are getting separate rental cars in addition to hotels. I just reiterated that I will take care of my own plans and she can make her own arrangements. She got upset, stormed away, called me a selfish a-hole, and mumbled some other things before shutting the door.

This morning she sent a text asking me what is the point of having 2 rental cars. I’m not sure the best way to answer. I could ignore it, but she’ll ask again at some point. I want to lay it all out like Mach1 did for me yesterday but I don’t know if that’s the most productive way to handle it.

I’m thinking something straight to the point like “You are getting ready to divorce me and you’re cheating on me. That’s why I want a separate rental car.”

Any thoughts?

[DnJ]

Good Morning DW

I’d take separate cars, and for sure separate accommodation.

You are getting ready to divorce me and you’re cheating on me. That’s why I want a separate rental car.

This is what is going on; not a why for your direction/decision.

Why would you go separately? Consider:

I just reiterated that I will take care of my own plans and she can make her own arrangements. She got upset, stormed away, called me a selfish a-hole, and mumbled some other things before shutting the door.

She’s checking to see just how much of a grip she has on you. If you are still sitting there on the shelf.

I don’t know if that’s the most productive way to handle it.

The most productive way is through consistent demonstrated behaviour. You live better not bitter.

The medium is the message, much more than your words.

So, do you want separate cars because you are angry? Or hurt? Or is it a ploy? Or because folks here told you to? Or you think it’s the right thing to do? Or because you aren’t sure what to do? Probably a mixture of many reasons.

Focus on you. Why do you want separate cars?

Most (all?) of your answers/reasons would likely not benefit your situation in telling her. She will just rebel against them. Remember her last night’s immature name calling and storming away.

What if this was another parent? And they just blasted you last night. Would you share a ride to save a few bucks? Or would you tell them get stuffed? Or would you just go about your business?

The root cause, in my view, is because of how she is treating you.

“My friends don’t treat me the way you do.”

I found that to be a pretty good mantra and reason and benchmark and life line going through my situation.

You remain kind and cordial. Angry responses won’t do you any good. You behave friendly, yet with the understanding and awareness that you are not currently friends.

Believe me, you can love someone and not like them.

People will treat you as you allow them. Do not allow W to treat you that way. Boundaries with consequences. Accountability. Reap what she (and you too) sows.

I’d recommend saying nothing.

From last night:

I just reiterated that I will take care of my own plans and she can make her own arrangements.

Clear and straightforward. No need to tell her again.

D

[DW17]

D, your advice is once again appreciated. You have a way of getting me to remove emotion from the equation. It does feel like she's testing her grip. I will stay consistent with my decisions and remain cordial.

[Ready2Change]

This morning she sent a text asking me what is the point of having 2 rental cars.

I’d recommend saying nothing.

Good advise.

Soooo, If she asks in person, I love "miss interpreting the question" as part of my humor.
"So you don't have to walk everywhere" Big smile, and wink, and strut away to do something else.

Do not take things serious. Hold your ground on your decisions, do not debate, be funny...and don't be boring.

[Kind18]

I’d recommend saying nothing.

As usual, DNJ is 100% right. You made your choice for you, you communicated it clearly, from that point on - radio silence. Let her throw her toys out of the pram.

What is with us LBS feeling like we have to respond to bad behaviour? We’ve spent our whole relationship playing nice and trying to placate our spouse. It can be very difficult to fight the urge to respond … some people think that it will be seen as adversarial or manipulative. But you don’t need to worry about what this person thinks of you any more, because if she’s having an affair with someone else, her opinion of you couldn’t possibly get any lower than it is 🤷‍♂️

Fight the urge to respond or be nice. You’ve clearly communicated what you want, time for her to hitch up her big girl skirt and be an adult.

Oh…. And her calling you an A-hole - that’s actually a great sign. She’s not mad at you, she’s mad that she can’t manipulate you like she used to be able to.

Your behaviour - cool, calm, measured, reasonable adult who makes good decisions FOR YOU and communicates them clearly
Her behaviour - to be frank, who gives a s***! Not your problem.

[DW17]

Here’s an update to what’s been going on the past week.

W started filling out the D paperwork again. It was in response to her getting upset that we aren’t staying together or sharing a rental car this upcoming weekend. Basically, she was throwing a fit. I know her plan was to have the paperwork filled out by 2/10. That didn’t happen so who knows.

When W was filling out the paperwork, it was in the dining room while D18 was doing her homework and I was making dinner. She kept making comments to get a reaction, but I didn’t bite. Both times she’s filled them out it was right in front of D18. D18 is great about ignoring things, but I worry about what she may be keeping in. I check with her about how she’s feeling with everything every few days and she says she’s fine but can’t wait until she's off to college and doesn't have to play mom for D5 on top of juggling school, sports, work, friends, etc. It feels like she’s just holding in her emotions until she doesn’t have to deal with this anymore. Not sure if that’s healthy or not, but I’ve been talking with my IC about how to help her with that.

One new change from the parenting plan compared to the one W filled out previously is that she changed it to 50/50, but wants D5 for all bdays, Christmas and “adoption day” (we celebrate the day we finalized our adoption). I’m glad it’s more reasonable than the first attempt, but that’s still not going to work for me. And her actions this morning made me wonder if I should be pushing for a larger portion of custody.

W went out last night and did not come home. Whatever, I’m used to that now. But today I had to be at work at 5 and earlier in the week I made arrangements for D5 to be watched in case W wasn’t able to. W got offended at the suggestion she wouldn’t be able to watch D5 and said something like “She’s my kid, I am capable of taking care of her.” This was several days ago. I assumed this meant she would be home by the time I left for work, but she wasn’t. Instead, D18 is stuck watching her and was never asked to. D18 and I talked about it last night, anticipating W not coming home, but it’s still incredibly frustrating. W has always been a great mom until the past 8 months, but her actions make me question whether she actually is capable of taking care of D5. D5 complains or cries to me almost daily about W not spending time with her or not being around. If W’s current mental state continues post-D, I do not want this woman caring for my child.

I’m not sure if anyone else has been in the same boat. If so, did your exW snap out of her bad parenting post-D, or continue a downward spiral? Should someone dealing with depression and everything else my W is going through right now be granted 50/50 custody? The advice I’ve received from a few people is to push for what I want, not what I think is fair. I’ll talk with my L about this also, but I’m just curious what others may have experienced.

On a more positive note, still GALing the best I can. Last weekend I took D5 to ride her bike across a local bridge and we went to a Daddy Daughter dance with D7 and had a lot of fun. Ran into some people I hadn’t seen in a long time. I got some new clothes which is always nice. I went out with a buddy to watch another friend’s band play. Slacked on reading this week but planning on reading a bunch today. Finished week 9 of my half marathon prep. Probably time to actually sign up for a race. I tweaked something in my knee yesterday, I think from not stretching after my run. I hope it heals up quick. I’m getting ready to have a blast at D18’s tournament next weekend. Still not sure if she’ll be healthy enough to play, but I am going either way. W is worried about how awkward it’ll be, but I’m choosing to embrace the awkwardness. I hope everyone had a great week!

[LH19]

D I’m a big believer in 50/50 custody unless a parent is deemed unfit. My guess is your stbxw knows you will pick up the slack so that’s why she’s acting that way right now. I would call her on her bs right now when she’s not being responsible. Obviously post D if she is endangering your children you can revisit your options.

[BL42]

DW17,

Sounds like you're handling your emotions well through a very difficult situation. Good job.

W started filling out the D paperwork again. It was in response to her getting upset that we aren’t staying together or sharing a rental car this upcoming weekend. Basically, she was throwing a fit.

I think you know this but I'll say it anyway...she's going to do what she's going to do regardless of what decision you make for the weekend away. Don't let her convince you she's decided on the divorce because of that. The thing is the LBS is scared of D and wants to keep the family together, but once the WAS/WS goes through with the D the "worst" has happened to the LBS and the WAS/WS loses all power - no more "I'll D you!" care to play. Let her throw her fits; you stay strong, calm, and collected.

When W was filling out the paperwork, it was in the dining room while D18 was doing her homework and I was making dinner.

Both times she’s filled them out it was right in front of D18.

Ridiculous behavior to do everything she's doing, but especially filling out D paperwork and making sly comments in front of D18. WAS/WS are completely 100% selfish.

She kept making comments to get a reaction, but I didn’t bite.

Good for you.

D18 is great about ignoring things, but I worry about what she may be keeping in. I check with her about how she’s feeling with everything every few days and she says she’s fine but can’t wait until she's off to college and doesn't have to play mom for D5 on top of juggling school, sports, work, friends, etc. It feels like she’s just holding in her emotions until she doesn’t have to deal with this anymore. Not sure if that’s healthy or not, but I’ve been talking with my IC about how to help her with that.

I'd be concerned about her leaving for college after all this. It's a big transition for anyone to handle, without going through the drama of her mom. Smart to engage an IC.

One new change from the parenting plan compared to the one W filled out previously is that she changed it to 50/50, but wants D5 for all bdays, Christmas and “adoption day” (we celebrate the day we finalized our adoption).

Well that's obviously not going to happen. 50/50 is the standard. Every other or split the days, but she's delusional to think she'll get every Holiday.

I’m glad it’s more reasonable than the first attempt,

Agreed. Making progress in that sense...

but that’s still not going to work for me.

Good. You know your rights and are standing up for them. Don't let her bully you into a bad agreement.

And her actions this morning made me wonder if I should be pushing for a larger portion of custody.

Document it.

W went out last night and did not come home. Whatever, I’m used to that now. But today I had to be at work at 5 and earlier in the week I made arrangements for D5 to be watched in case W wasn’t able to. W got offended at the suggestion she wouldn’t be able to watch D5 and said something like “She’s my kid, I am capable of taking care of her.” This was several days ago. I assumed this meant she would be home by the time I left for work, but she wasn’t.

Lessons learned. She's taught you can't be depended on even for child care - act accordingly moving forward.

Instead, D18 is stuck watching her and was never asked to. D18 and I talked about it last night, anticipating W not coming home, but it’s still incredibly frustrating.

That is incredibly frustrating.

W has always been a great mom until the past 8 months, but her actions make me question whether she actually is capable of taking care of D5. D5 complains or cries to me almost daily about W not spending time with her or not being around.

I remember my S5 crying looking out the window because "he just wanted to see mommy on mothers day" but she's was staying somewhere else having "her own time". Not sure I'll ever forget that one.

If W’s current mental state continues post-D, I do not want this woman caring for my child.

Unfortunately you may not have a choice.

I’m not sure if anyone else has been in the same boat. If so, did your exW snap out of her bad parenting post-D, or continue a downward spiral?

So DW17, my ExW was a good mom to S4 and D1 until BD. Then she would have to "work early" or "work late" do odd shifts and the next day while I had to work basically sleep half the day and just turn on movies for the kids. The first year after she moved out the kids came back several times without bathing for the full week, she would give them chocolate for breakfast, and pass them off on me giving up her time if she wanted to go away with OM2. Things that were ridiculous to normal responsible parents, but wouldn't merit any court judgement against 50/50 (they seem to have more pressing concerns with drug and physical abuse, unfortunately). But she seems to have come around on that front. Is a lot more engaged with bathing, homework, having her full time with them...etc. So I think to answer your question it's possible your W might revert back to the mother she was and start being more responsible for your kids at some point. But who knows. It's a case by case basis I think. My ExW's path doesn't mean your W will act the same.

The advice I’ve received from a few people is to push for what I want, not what I think is fair.

I think the better advice is to push for what's best for the kids, not what you want. Now maybe those align, but try to step away your hurt and betrayal and personal view of the situation and always with every decision you make think "Is this what's best for the kids?". Sometimes it'll hurt you a bit, but you have to take the high road and think what's right for them. Not that you aren't. Clearly you're the responsible party that's doing better for them than W right now. Just saying that should be the standard.

Should someone dealing with depression and everything else my W is going through right now be granted 50/50 custody?

I’ll talk with my L about this also, but I’m just curious what others may have experienced.

Talk with L about what's even possible. Do you even have grounds for more than 50/50? And, if so, than think really hard about what's best for the kids. If you truly believe in your heart she can't care for them than go for more than 50/50.

Good stuff on the GAL. D5 biking, D7 dance, new clothes, friend's band, half marathon prep...well done. Enjoy D18's tournament...socialize with the families and embrace the awkwardness...love it!

[DW17]

D I’m a big believer in 50/50 custody unless a parent is deemed unfit.

Things that were ridiculous to normal responsible parents, but wouldn't merit any court judgement against 50/50 (they seem to have more pressing concerns with drug and physical abuse, unfortunately).

This does make sense. It’s tough to accept on days when she does crap like this. I’ll spend more time thinking it through. I just hope she decides to parent again at some point. She volunteered to raise this child. It’s a complete disservice to D5 for her to not be the best parent possible. MLC is a mess.

Lessons learned. She's taught you she can't be depended on even for child care - act accordingly moving forward.

Yup. I checked in with D18 this morning to make sure D5 was doing okay. W got home around 8am and went straight to bed. W couldn’t even be depended on once she got home. I won’t put D5 or D18 in that position again.

[DnJ]

Hello DW

Folks in MLC usually become terrible parents.

Along with me and the other things my XW tossed aside like used clothes, were our four children. She has basically provided nothing during the past six years. Just dump and run. She missed birthdays and other special/important dates. When OM’s son had his car roll-over accident, she told the four kids - face to face during a visit - how she almost lost a child. How she almost lost “her” child. Imagine that! Telling your own children something like that. What a thing to hear from one’s own mother. She caused a commotion at our son’s wedding social when trying to manipulate them into “having to” invite OM to the wedding. And she continues to prevent early access to their inheritance monies. All kids are/have attended university; with tuition being one of the very things spelled out for such an early withdrawal. The two eldest just waited until the mandatory release age of 23. My third son will reach 23 this year. Daughter is turning 21 this year.

She stalked her daughter to and from school. Even confronted her in the hallway, in front of her classmates. Attacking her about her boyfriend. W flirted with the high school boys during the track meet. She parked at my property’s edge and watched son and daughter as they got home and went to work. She even entered my home and snooped about, until I started to lock the door. (Small town. )

Lots of desperate and depressed behaviour from her over the past years. And no parenting really. She is more a teenager herself. All our kids now being older than she acts/behaves.

That all being said, presently there are some small signs of XW trying to do the right thing. She hasn’t actually done “the right thing” yet; just affirmed her intent to, to daughter.

I do believe folks can find their way out of their abyss. For some, that is a very long road. I’d think they’d feel a bit like Rip Van Winkle awakening once they got their fog cleared away.

DW, all you can do is be Dad. To be your best. You are likely to have the lion’s share of responsibilities and care and support and so on. It’s hard, and very much fulfilling and worthy. Be the living example to, and for, your kids.

D

[DW17]

Wow D, I can't imagine dealing with all of that. I only know of a few people who I believe went through MLC and they did become pretty bad parents. I hope W changes, but I will continue to expect nothing and make sure the kids are taken care of.

[DnJ]

Hi DW

For what it’s worth, I’d keep doing what you’re doing. Keep the ball in her court. Let her own her choices.

Her current flurry does appear to be her acting up from not getting her own way. Pffft. Oh well. Let her sort through and fill out whatever documents she feels like. If she pushes the divorce ball further along, you know your rights, and you will seek legal counsel before responding.

Keeping the business side business, and leading with compassion on the other path, is a pretty good way of dealing with things.

I think you’re doing good DW. Keep it up.

D

[DW17]

I borrowed this from Rock’s thread, but it applies to my thoughts today as well after a rough Valentine’s Day.

Or, do you have some decisions to renew?

You came here and made decisions to save your marriage. To believe in the sanctity of marriage. To take divorce busting steps. To become the best verison of yourself. And so on.

This is a Divorce Busting forum, and divorce busting efforts towards saving/renewing your marriage/relationship, not promoting steps to end it. You filing will guarantee you get divorced.

Utimatiums and deadlines are utilized in the “after the last-resort technique”. When everything else has been utilized and one’s spouse will not turn around. It is the the very last ditch effort, the trying everything you could. In my opinion, you and your situation are not there.

Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint.

You have the gift of time, use it wisely.

I came to this site, as did most, with the intention of saving my marriage. In the process I have rediscovered happiness within myself, reconnected with friends and family, improved several physical and mental aspects of myself, became a much better father and employee. Almost all of this was a result of the help I’ve received here.

I currently feel like I don’t want anything to do with the woman who used to be my sidekick through life. I know that feelings change. Mine have changed several times. But having the disrespect rubbed in my face in my own home by W and her friends, and then having them pretend like nothing is going on is something I don’t feel like I should be dealing with any longer.

I am expecting W to file D papers next week, per her schedule. She has stalled on this since first saying she wanted a D in this summer. I expect her to continue to stall. My current struggle is do I wait to see if my feelings change, even though they are pushing further apart by the day, or do I just pull the plug? When do I know it’s the right time to stop fighting for my marriage? I told my kids I’d give it a year. It’s been 8 months. Last night I told them one way or another, someone is getting served by the end of the month. Yes, this was said out of anger and is not set in stone, but that’s how I feel at the moment.

So some context from yesterday:

Leading in to Valentine’s Day, I had a feeling that this would be a rough day for me. I did well with the other holidays/birthdays/anniversaries, but I was worried about this one. PMA was not working for me. I got home from work and started to run on the treadmill. While I was running, W said she had to go pick up D7 (our previous foster daughter who no longer lives with us) because D7 was sad and wanted to see us. D18 was leaving to hang out with her bf and quickly told me that she wanted to talk to me about a conversation she just had with W about OM and that he got her flowers and a gift. They both left, I finished my run and went to see what D18 was talking about.

I saw the flowers/gift and a few cards. One of the cards was from a close friend of W and I, who calls herself my children’s aunt, who was just at our house a few days ago. In it, she basically is trying to be a supportive friend for W saying stuff like “I’ll always be there for you, you’ll get through this”, etc, but she also referred to W’s new boyfriend by saying she was happy for her and her new temporary (bold/underlined) boyfriend. I’ve known that W has been cheating on me, but for some reason seeing it from a “friend” who knows about it, didn’t say anything to me about it, calls herself my children’s aunt, and just a few days ago responded to me thanking her by saying “that’s what friends are for” hit me different. Obviously I was upset about the flowers and gift, but this hurt equally as bad. I was ready to throw away W’s gift and leave all of her belongings outside. I called my sister to talk me out of doing/saying anything stupid that could hurt me later and she suggested I go to her house to watch a movie. As soon as W got home from getting D7, I said I’d be back later. She asked where I was going and when I’d be back because she had dinner plans (supposedly with a girl friend. Probably a lie, I don’t care though). I said I’ll be back later and left.

W got the kids to bed eventually after calling/texting me for 30 minutes straight (I didn’t respond) and left for her dinner plans. I was not in a state to be speaking to her. The kids were left with S19. I got home late, the same time as D18. D18 told me that she asked W who got her the gifts and W wouldn’t answer. She pried more, which prompted a conversation where W admitted that OM got her the gift/flowers. She told D18 that she no longer has an emotional connection with me and said she really likes this guy. Asked if D18 wanted to meet him. Said that OM really knows her because the flowers he got are black (W dresses in mostly black now. She’s never done this in her 38 prior years on this planet) She was basically trying to get acceptance of her behavior from D18. D18 stayed calm, but did not give her that comfort and said it was wrong of her to do that while married to her dad. I also found out that the indoor soccer team I just signed D5 and D7 up for is the same age group as OM’s daughter. So they will play against each other at some point in the next month. I asked D18 if she was okay and she still keeps saying yes, but I know there are emotions she’s keeping in.

I haven’t spoken to W other than a text response that I’m picking up D5 from school today. She asked me to call and I did not. W’s texts are complaints about lack of communication about the kids. I know this is BS, and I don’t care as W never mentioned leaving last night to me either. Like I was told a few weeks ago, none of this information is new. I’ve known she is cheating. I’ve known she is a liar. I would expect her stupid bf to get her a gift on Valentine’s Day. I understand that. It still hurts today though. I don’t want to make an emotional decision, but I cannot see myself with this woman ever again. (…feelings are fleeting…) The hurt probably means I still care. But I don’t want her in my house, I don’t want her friends in my house, I don’t want to talk to her and I want to throw her stupid gift in the fireplace. I will never understand her showing this much disrespect for the 22 years we’ve spent together. Just file for the d@mn D first…then you’re free to do whatever you want. I guess that’s MLC.

I think I’m going to read DR again the next few days. I’m going to fill the next 2 days with things away from my house, which should be easy. I’m going to enjoy the hell out of my trip. And when I get back, I’m going to make a decision or renew one.

[LH19]

DW17 that was a tough read and I am sorry.

I will never understand her showing this much disrespect for the 22 years we’ve spent together.

It's because you allow her to do it. It's not fog, MLC or whatever you want to label it. That's the down side of detach, GAL, 180 you eat a lot of $hit sandwiches.

[BL42]

DW17,

Sorry man, that was tough to read - you've got me all riled up. The thing is there's "knowing" about the affair in the abstract, which you've dealt with emotionally, and then there's seeing tangible evidence of it thrown in your face in your own house.

Not sure the official "DB" answer is - maybe be detached enough not to care/act anyway - but I personally don't think you'd be wrong to take the flowers and cards and throw them in the trash or fireplace. At least you'd be standing up for yourself, acting out of strength, and modeling for your kids not to put up with that betrayal and disrespect.

If there's any consolation for you it's that you'll never need to explain who was the "bad actor" to your kids - W is showing D18 exactly what going on. Now, that's probably not great for D18's development, but she knows exactly who the bad actor is.

Hang in there DW. You have every right to be angry, but feelings are fleeting and you will get through this.

[MikeP]

DW, I want to drive to your house right now and throw that stuff in the fireplace for you 🤬! That was a hard read and I’m sorry you are going through this.

[bttrfly]

DW, first, {{{{{hugs}}}}}

Secondly, I suggest taking D18 for a long car ride or to get something to eat, just the two of you and have a very direct conversation. In that conversation, tell her that you respect her perhaps wanting to keep some feelings or info private, but make it abundantly clear to her that she does not need to protect you from anything, that you will always be there for her, and that she can always come to you for anything. Sadly yes, that needs to be stated clearly.

As angry as you are, do not say anything that could be construed as parental alienation. Also make it clear that your w is still your daughter's mother, regardless of her current behavior.

Sadly, DW, now is probably the time to remind yourself that your relationship with your kids is yours and w's relationship with the kids is between them. Don't allow your justifiable anger to intrude on those relationships.

The beauty of DBing is you can take all the time YOU need to make a decision. And, this "friend" has shown you exactly who she is as a person. You're going to be learning a lot about the people in your life as the months unfold.

Continue to focus on keeping your side of the street clean, and take the time away to really think about what you want and how you want to live your life so you'll be ready to implement something that truly works for you and your kids when the time comes.

[DW17]

Thanks for the support.

It's because you allow her to do it. It's not fog, MLC or whatever you want to label it.

I was thinking about this recently when reading a comment on another post. When we first went through this 14 years ago, I got upset, called her out on her BS, left the house for a week or two, gave her some ultimatums....basically didn't allow her to treat me badly, but definitely not DB principles. We never worked through anything and we were back together in a few weeks. This time was definitely much different and I highly doubt that that strategy would have worked again, but it does cause some what ifs. The first time around, I don’t remember feeling guilty for anything. I blamed her 100% and failed to see my part in it. This time I took blame for everything initially, which maybe led to things dragging on like they have. Ultimately, we both made choices and I must accept the path I’ve chosen.

As for the sandwiches, I’ve gotten my fill of those. Still don’t like them.

The thing is there's "knowing" about the affair in the abstract, which you've dealt with emotionally, and then there's seeing tangible evidence of it thrown in your face in your own house.

I agree. It’s easier to mentally detach from things when it’s “out of sight, out of mind”, even when you know it’s happening. That’s why we don’t ride together or share a bed – I needed the constant texting out of sight.

D18 and S19 definitely have no confusion about the bad actor. I hope the knowledge they gain through this outweighs any negative side effects. I just hope I’m modeling the correct behavior. I’ve been honest with them through the whole process. I’ve talked to them about being independent, expecting mutual respect in a relationship and not letting someone walk on them. I’ve talked about the reasons for my actions, or lack thereof, and have also expressed the reasons why I’ve been fighting to save this. Neither of them are reliant on W for anything, other than the emotional support you expect of a parent, which they currently are not even receiving from her. They understand they can navigate their relationship with W in any way they choose.

[BL42]

DW17,

D18 and S19 definitely have no confusion about the bad actor. I hope the knowledge they gain through this outweighs any negative side effects. I just hope I’m modeling the correct behavior. I’ve been honest with them through the whole process. I’ve talked to them about being independent, expecting mutual respect in a relationship and not letting someone walk on them. I’ve talked about the reasons for my actions, or lack thereof, and have also expressed the reasons why I’ve been fighting to save this. Neither of them are reliant on W for anything, other than the emotional support you expect of a parent, which they currently are not even receiving from her. They understand they can navigate their relationship with W in any way they choose.

You almost have two completely different paths in terms of the kids.

S19 & D18 are going to be done with high school and potentially moved out to college before any potential D happens. There is no custody and perhaps no child support (depending on the state) considerations for them. They can choose where they want to live. If they come back to college, they might default back to the house they know...etc.

Whereas if the D happens D5 is going to go through life back and forth between your place and as she gets older won't remember nearly as much about the process leading up to the D as S19 and D18 will.

[DnJ]

Hello DW

Sorry man. Yesterday was certainly and understandably a rough one for you. I did find the first time through the special days was the most difficult.

I too had a family friend, an aunt to the children, who sided with XW. Another betrayal and/or feelings thereof to work through and accept.

I don’t want to make an emotional decision

Good.

(…feelings are fleeting…)

Yes they are.

I came to this site, as did most, with the intention of saving my marriage. In the process I have rediscovered happiness within myself, reconnected with friends and family, improved several physical and mental aspects of myself, became a much better father and employee.

Excellent.

I currently feel like I don’t want anything to do with the woman who used to be my sidekick through life. I know that feelings change.

Perfectly normal to feel such. And rather temporary for the woman you promised your life to, and the mother of your children - unless such feelings are reinforced.

My current struggle is do I wait to see if my feelings change, even though they are pushing further apart by the day, or do I just pull the plug?

You know your feeling will change. You even said so. It’s not “if”, it’s just “when”.

Do not pull the plug based on feelings.

When do I know it’s the right time to stop fighting for my marriage?

When? Know? Fighting?

Fighting begets fighting. Live well. Be that happy man connected with friends and family. Be the better person, father, and employee. The focus on you stuff. The stuff you can control.

Knowing. The cold emotionlessness of logic and reason. If you needed financial protection or security, that would be a known reason to file for divorce; which is still not stopping efforts towards busting/reconciliation.

When. Dig deep. What are your beliefs and values and convictions? Standing really starts when one becomes strong and healed enough to stand down; until then it’s one’s default position. Stand for your beliefs.

I think I’m going to read DR again the next few days.

Nice. I usually find or renew things on subsequent readings.

I’m going to make a decision or renew one.

Look to your deep convictions and motivations. The core of who you are. Life’s peace and contentment comes from living such headings.

D

[Mach1]

Tough day for sure DW....

Been there and done that one too....

Maybe it's me, yet somewhere in the middle there is room for this...

What we've been telling you for the past few months, is that your path forward is for you and you alone.

You can't lead from behind (your kiddos), and you certainly can't drive a square peg in a round hole...

Right now, you feel in limbo, and the reason that you feel that way is YOUR choice.

I certainly do not condone what she is doing, although I also don't condone running out and filing for Divorce either.

And there is the balance my friend.....

I think the expectation of the day had you in a tailspin before you even started your day. Expectations being the killer of so many things in our life. I think that you were expecting things to go sideways, and maybe even worked toward that a bit.

Blaming her actions for your downfall, allows you to be a victim of her behavior rather than a leader of your spirit through turbulent times......

Which would you prefer to be ???


Either way, the thing that you feared the most yesterday came to fruition for you.

One phrase that I have found to be true, is that it isn't what happens to you in your life that matters, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

You are pretty new to this stuff, and you will fall down and get back up. Sometimes that happens in the matter of a few minutes. And that's okay. You can't have too many highs or too many lows. Life will ebb and flow around you, and you can either choose to get on the ride or you don't. Your choice.

Find the Balance....

I also do not believe that DBing is simply a platform to teach you how to be Divorced, or certainly not how to push forward for it. At least it historically hasn't been that. I feel that DBing is about you finding your best self, and taking stock of yourself, and figuring out what you want your life to look like, free from the burden of a relationship. Becoming your best self regardless the outcome of your situation.

With DBing, IF you can accomplish those things, the best chance that you have to restore your marriage, is to find that from within, and live that everyday for you. Then you can live authentically with yourself. Also with DB, you know without a shadow of a doubt that you did everything in your power to save your marriage, and regardless the outcome, you will sleep well knowing that.

I have seen a lot of marriages fail , however I have seen a lot them work out too. Mostly what happens is, that once a marriage hits this site, it's too late to save. Most can only hope for something anew down the road.

The skills learned here should make you a better person for your next relationship, and that next one could very well be with your current spouse. anything down the road will have to be new though.

And rarely, if ever, will a WAS return to the same situation that they are walking away from now...Things will have to be different if that were to ever happen.



DW, like I said earlier, nothing that happened yesterday was new information to you. You know that she has been working toward this. You knew the strong potential for another guy, you know the level of disconnect that she has for the marriage.

And please don't feel like I am beating you down.....because you have my sincere empathy about this.

I want you to see that your thoughts are emotional right now. And I want you to see that you don't have to be either still married or freshly divorced to be the man you you want and need to be....

That your marital status doesn't define who you are as a person, a man, a Father, Friend, Son, whatever you want to insert there....

You can be anything that you want to be, and do not have to check any marital boxes for that to happen...

And there aren't any bells that you need to ring, because once you ring them, you can't un-ring them.

For now ???

F-her man....

Live your life for you and the kids....

If she wants to file ???

F-her...let her do the legwork...

IF she wants to intentionally hurt you ???

F-her man....that says more about her character than yours....

YOU are the rock right now...for yourself and the kids...

Don't get down and play on her level, because you will regret it if you do..


Most WAS want to totally destroy the LBS on the way out the door. I know my Ex did....

I always thought this though....

Divorce is public record...

What would I want my kids to read about if they were to ever search for that ??

What would they know about me if I drug her through the mud the same as she was doing to me ??

Your marriage should never define who you are....

And maybe that's the mistake that most of us have made that landed us here. That we allowed that to happen....



One last thing though...

When it come to the kids....

You need to F-ing communicate with her....regardless how pi$$ed you are at her, or how much of an a$$hat she is being....

YOU COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE KIDS.....REGARDLESS

They don't deserve any what's happening.

She will fail though, not always, yet she will fail until she moves further down the road. You won't always know when it's gonna happen....

However, you not communicating with her sets the pattern of NON-communication. And it will be too late before you know that.....


Hang in there DW....

This too shall pass.....

For now....Just be

[BL42]

For now ???

F-her man....

Live your life for you and the kids....

Indeed!

IF she wants to intentionally hurt you ???

F-her man....that says more about her character than yours....

Remember DW...how someone treats others is a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves.

I realize it's majorly impacting your life and that [censored], but this is about her...not you.

[DW17]

Failed pretty miserably with DBing last night. I could feel the frustration brewing. I left to avoid it on Valentine’s Day. I thought I had enough planned yesterday to distract myself, but I did not.

I got off work, picked up D5 and D7 and met my sister and niece at the park. Took D7 home and then went home. I had planned to go shopping for some last minute things before I leave. When I got home yesterday, W asked how we were getting to the airport for our trip tomorrow. I repeated what I told her with the hotel and the rental car – I’ll make my arrangements and you can take care of yours. This upset her again, just like the previous times, but I anticipated that. No big deal. She walked away for a few minutes, then came back and said she’s taking D5 with her to her friend’s house when we get back from our trip while we figure things out. I said you’re not taking her anywhere but we could talk about it later and walked away. She asked if we could talk. I should have pushed it off, but I engaged (…when you engage, you lose).

She said she did not understand why I was being so unreasonable, why we couldn’t just do this together for D18 and said that this trip is about D18 and that I should put my feelings aside to make sure she has a great trip. She doesn’t know that I have been putting my feelings aside for months and checking in with D18 almost daily to make sure things are okay. She doesn’t know that D18 sent me a text while I was at the park asking if she could throw OM’s flowers away because she has to walk past them to get to her room and it hurts her to see them. She doesn’t know that D18 doesn’t even care if W goes on the trip or how upset D18 is with her. I understand that W flipping the chaos of this trip onto me is likely her refusing to take accountability. I know I should have just left it at that and said “I hope D18 has the best time possible and I’ll do my best to ensure that” and walked away. Instead I engaged again. (…when you engage, you lose). I told her she knows why I’m not doing things together. She repeatedly said that she honestly has no clue why. I told her not to insult my intelligence and walked away. She told me not to walk away without explaining myself. (…when you engage, you lose). I engaged again and most of the things I’ve kept in for all of these months came out instead.

It started with me calling her out for cheating on me for 8 months. She attempted her previously used justification of “you told me that we are free to do whatever and even my therapist agreed…” I cut her off, told her we had already discussed that, told her to own her sh!t, told her that the people in her house aren’t stupid and we all know what she’s been doing. I told her it was bs that she couldn’t just get the divorce before doing this again. I told her she’s the one who has to look in the mirror and the faces of her kids each day knowing she’s a cheater. I told her the only reason I’m even still here is because I wanted to make this work but that’s over now. I called her out for bringing this sh!t into my house with the flowers and gift. I honestly don’t remember everything I said but it was mostly just a 5-10 minute rant while she stood there with a face that said “Are you done yet.” I think that’s actually what she said when I was done. I walked away all full of adrenaline and she just stayed in the room folding her clothes.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2937804&page=5

It felt very similar to this situation I described back in early October, only W’s reaction was basically emotionless, which was a big difference from last time. My mindset is also way different this time. No fear of upsetting her. I re-read the responses from that post. I still think her leaving is best right now, but I am contacting my L today to ensure D5 does not go with her. It’s tough because we are leaving tomorrow morning, but I’ll get the ball rolling on that. I don’t expect that W will text me again accusing me of “pinning her in a corner” or causing a panic attack. It happened early in the evening and she just went about her day as if things were fine. D18 was eating some Cheetos and W came in and said “Eating some Cheaters, I mean Cheetos. Too soon?” It was sad, weird, funny, crazy all at the same time. Wtf.

We didn’t speak the rest of the night. I cleaned D5’s bedroom and got her to bed. At some point W went off to her bed. D18 just hung out talking and showing me funny stuff on her phone. S19 obviously heard everything too, so I checked on him as well. I told them that they don’t have to come to me, but if they have thoughts/feelings that they should get them out and that I am always available for them.

It felt good getting things off my chest, but I feel a little like the crazy one, especially because of W's lack of response the whole time. I do recognize it as a mistake that I said I would not make again. D18 said she knew it was coming from how I was the day before. I knew it too, which is why I left on Valentine's Day. I’m not beating myself up about it, but also won’t pretend it didn’t happen.

[DW17]

Secondly, I suggest taking D18 for a long car ride or to get something to eat, just the two of you and have a very direct conversation. In that conversation, tell her that you respect her perhaps wanting to keep some feelings or info private, but make it abundantly clear to her that she does not need to protect you from anything, that you will always be there for her, and that she can always come to you for anything. Sadly yes, that needs to be stated clearly.

I plan to do this on our ride to the airport tomorrow. It’s about an hour away. D18 told W she wants to ride with me there. And I’ll make sure to remind myself to separate my issues with W from my kids relationship with her. It’s gotten blurred at times and I can’t let that happen.

I think the expectation of the day had you in a tailspin before you even started your day. Expectations being the killer of so many things in our life. I think that you were expecting things to go sideways, and maybe even worked toward that a bit.

I know this is true. I’ve been reading and talking to others about positive mindset and how that can manifest positive results. I went into Valentine’s Day expecting it to be hard for me. I failed to take a step back, anticipate possible results, think of the best approach I could make to those situations and keep a positive attitude regardless. Lesson learned for sure, but this is great advice for any other newbies here.

And Mach, I don’t feel like you are beating me down. I truly appreciate all of the advice given from people here. It has never felt like a beat down. I really wish I had read your post yesterday. I’ve been pretty steady with my emotions for a while now, and I think I got a little overconfident with my ability to handle them.

YOU COMMUNICATE ABOUT THE KIDS.....REGARDLESS

Agreed. My post was a little confusing when I mentioned W complaining about communication regarding the kids. Basically, W never mentioned the kids when texting/calling me on Valentine’s Day after I left. She only mentioned it the next morning when telling me I couldn’t take D5 to the park if I’m refusing to communicate about the kids. The kids are one of the only things I text her about and I will absolutely continue to ensure I do that.

[Mach1]

Soooooo....

You laid some truth darts out there for her to step over.....

Can't say that I haven't done that.

HOWEVER....

Don't expect anything from them other than blank stares and nothingness.....

Truth is...

The next time you speak, chances are, she will have forgotten all about what you said....

It's part of the "push/pull" of DBing. She feels you getting stronger, so she will look for more buttons to push on you, and when that fails, she will try to "nice" you back in a little....

You said them, they are gone, move forward from them and don't dwell on them again....

Actions not words...


Keep moving forward DW....that's all you can do...

Have fun this weekend, regardless the craziness around you.....





Mods- What happened to LH's post, above my last post ???

Why is it gone ????

[bttrfly]

DW you are in the thick of it and man, I'm so sorry you and the kids are in this place.

I'm glad you'll be with D18 tomorrow alone in the car. Some of the most honest talks with my son were done in the car.

Don't beat yourself up too much about what happened. Sounds like you were shooting truth darts all over the place. Yes, when you engage you lose, I guess? And you don't need to participate in every fight you're invited to, but sometimes, just sometimes, when you're backed into a corner it's ok to come out swinging the 2x4 of truth. F it and F her. It is what it is. We are human, not automatons and NOT Persian carpets to be walked all over.

[quote=DW17]
I currently feel like I don’t want anything to do with the woman who used to be my sidekick through life. I know that feelings change.

Perfectly normal to feel such. And rather temporary for the woman you promised your life to, and the mother of your children - unless such feelings are reinforced.

I don't see how your feelings, DW, can be temporary when your wife continues to throw her AP in your and your family's face.

Your D18 is not her confidante. Your D18 should not feel uncomfortable in her own home because of her mother's actions.

What here is to like, respect? What here would make any sane person want anything to do with someone so lost to reality and the effect her actions are having on the people she's supposed to love and protect most, her own children?

Sorry ... I guess I'm not DBing ...

But, I will say it again. We each come here to save our marriages.

If we're lucky, we may get a chance to have a new marriage with our old spouse.

But here's the absolute truth:

If we're really lucky, we wind up saving ourselves.

[Rockon]

DW you are in a very difficult situation. I can relate to so much and I’m really impressed with what I understand of what you are dealing with and the ways you are looking after yourself, your family and what’s most important to you. No advice - just solidarity, brotherhood, admiration instead. Strength and courage mate. And have a blast this weekend. D adores you it seems like and she is going to be happy having a great time and seeing you relax and enjoy yourself. Maybe fit in some relaxation and space for yourself at times. I have been doing that - just getting out for some walks.

All my best,
Rock!

[DW17]

Well, I’m back from the soccer tournament. Had a lot of fun even though D18’s injury limited her to about 20 minutes of playing time in the first game before her injury worsened. It was still a lot of fun though. Went on an awesome solo hike one morning and the scenery was amazing. It was pretty busy with soccer stuff most of the time, but I did get go buy some clothes, go to a lame bar, and socialize a lot. I’m naturally fairly anti-social but I’ve noticed that the actions I have been taking for months have now become habit and I now feel like one of the more social people in many of the groups I’m in.

There were only 5 adults that stayed at the same hotel as the team (coach, me, W and 2 chaperones), so I spent most of the down time having drinks with them. W mostly stayed away, which was nice. I’m good friends with the coach too, so it was nice hanging out with him. As planned, I chose to embrace the awkwardness between W and I, and one of the chaperones definitely made things awkward at times. She asked a lot of innocent questions that led to some weird moments. W got to explain how we met each other and then got to respond to how awesome it is that we’ve been together since high school. Another moment was grabbing drinks at a restaurant and the bartender gave me a combined bill for me and the chaperone. He apologized and said something about how it seemed like we were a couple. It was tough toeing the line between having good conversation and trying not to cause any issues, but it seemed like I found the right balance.

So on to the current concerns. The day before we left, W came home crying after talking to her cousin, who is her closest family member, but lives a few hours away. I was taking a shower and W came into the bathroom demanding we talk. Apparently D18 spilled most of the beans about our sitch to W’s cousin’s daughter (Sorry if this gets confusing). The daughter told her mom and her mom called W to talk about it. W blamed me saying stuff in front of the kids (my truth darts the other day), for her whole family now knowing what’s going on. (I don’t think her whole family knows. They barely talk to W’s cousin). She also said that the stuff with OM was “very recent”, like that matters. She only considers a PA to be cheating apparently. Anyway, a few more truth darts came out. Not nearly as dramatic as last time, but she left the bathroom.

Later W said she is taking D5 with her to stay at her friend’s house, where she stayed for exactly 1 day months ago. I told her she isn’t taking D5 and that we’d discuss it at an appropriate time. She asked if D18 wanted to go stay there also, which she declined.

On Sunday, I got a text from W while she was in her hotel room saying “I’m not leaving the house until I have a legal parenting plan in place. If you have any suggestions on what you would like, please let me know and we can see if we can agree to get me out of the house and moving forward.”
I responded “This is a big decision that I don’t want to take lightly. We can figure out the specifics when we get back.”

She responded with another red flag text about not feeling safe in the house because I yelled at her with the kids there. I did not respond. Obviously I’ll take the same precautions about her text as last time she did this, which was the only other time I’ve raised my voice at all in 8 freaking months. W also said she won’t be paying bills when she leaves. I’ve got a list of things to talk to the L about this week. I have IC tomorrow also. But I am planning on taking charge with this portion. I understand that whatever parenting plan is set up now is likely to be the plan for the future as well, so I want to make sure I get it right.

Last thing is that W is having D18 go to IC with her tonight. D18 doesn’t really want to go. I don’t want to get too mixed into their relationship and D18 knows and understands this. I did warn D18 that W likely is bringing her there with an agenda in mind. I told her that if it’s to keep their relationship from becoming even more strained, that’s fine. That’s D18’s reasoning for going. That was also her reason for spilling everything to her cousin – she wants her mom back. But I said if she is made to feel guilty, made to feel like her opinions are not valid because she’s too young or doesn’t really understand what’s going on or anything like that, she does not have to be there. I told her to express her feelings truthfully and not to feel ashamed of how she feels, regardless of what those feelings are.

We’ll see how it goes. It was nice to get a break from the chaos and I was happy that I barely noticed that W was there. The separate rooms and cars were absolutely necessary so thank you to all who reinforced that idea when I was wavering.

[bttrfly]

DW, reading your post it seems inevitable that W will be moving out and proceeding with her D plans. I'm very sorry. The good news is I think you're handling the entire mess really well. You're focused on your side of the street, maintaining strong boundaries which honor your values and protecting yourself and your children.

I can't say enough about making sure that you don't get between the kids and their mom, while also keeping your focus on yourself and the personal changes you'd like to make within, so that you're a husband only a fool will leave.

[Mach1]

Well, I’m back from the soccer tournament. Had a lot of fun even though D18’s injury limited her to about 20 minutes of playing time in the first game before her injury worsened. It was still a lot of fun though. Went on an awesome solo hike one morning and the scenery was amazing. It was pretty busy with soccer stuff most of the time, but I did get go buy some clothes, go to a lame bar, and socialize a lot. I’m naturally fairly anti-social but I’ve noticed that the actions I have been taking for months have now become habit and I now feel like one of the more social people in many of the groups I’m in.

There were only 5 adults that stayed at the same hotel as the team (coach, me, W and 2 chaperones), so I spent most of the down time having drinks with them. W mostly stayed away, which was nice. I’m good friends with the coach too, so it was nice hanging out with him. As planned, I chose to embrace the awkwardness between W and I, and one of the chaperones definitely made things awkward at times. She asked a lot of innocent questions that led to some weird moments. W got to explain how we met each other and then got to respond to how awesome it is that we’ve been together since high school. Another moment was grabbing drinks at a restaurant and the bartender gave me a combined bill for me and the chaperone. He apologized and said something about how it seemed like we were a couple. It was tough toeing the line between having good conversation and trying not to cause any issues, but it seemed like I found the right balance.

So on to the current concerns. The day before we left, W came home crying after talking to her cousin, who is her closest family member, but lives a few hours away. I was taking a shower and W came into the bathroom demanding we talk. Apparently D18 spilled most of the beans about our sitch to W’s cousin’s daughter (Sorry if this gets confusing). The daughter told her mom and her mom called W to talk about it. W blamed me saying stuff in front of the kids (my truth darts the other day), for her whole family now knowing what’s going on. (I don’t think her whole family knows. They barely talk to W’s cousin). She also said that the stuff with OM was “very recent”, like that matters. She only considers a PA to be cheating apparently. Anyway, a few more truth darts came out. Not nearly as dramatic as last time, but she left the bathroom.

Later W said she is taking D5 with her to stay at her friend’s house, where she stayed for exactly 1 day months ago. I told her she isn’t taking D5 and that we’d discuss it at an appropriate time. She asked if D18 wanted to go stay there also, which she declined.

On Sunday, I got a text from W while she was in her hotel room saying “I’m not leaving the house until I have a legal parenting plan in place. If you have any suggestions on what you would like, please let me know and we can see if we can agree to get me out of the house and moving forward.”
I responded “This is a big decision that I don’t want to take lightly. We can figure out the specifics when we get back.”

She responded with another red flag text about not feeling safe in the house because I yelled at her with the kids there. I did not respond. Obviously I’ll take the same precautions about her text as last time she did this, which was the only other time I’ve raised my voice at all in 8 freaking months. W also said she won’t be paying bills when she leaves. I’ve got a list of things to talk to the L about this week. I have IC tomorrow also. But I am planning on taking charge with this portion. I understand that whatever parenting plan is set up now is likely to be the plan for the future as well, so I want to make sure I get it right.

Last thing is that W is having D18 go to IC with her tonight. D18 doesn’t really want to go. I don’t want to get too mixed into their relationship and D18 knows and understands this. I did warn D18 that W likely is bringing her there with an agenda in mind. I told her that if it’s to keep their relationship from becoming even more strained, that’s fine. That’s D18’s reasoning for going. That was also her reason for spilling everything to her cousin – she wants her mom back. But I said if she is made to feel guilty, made to feel like her opinions are not valid because she’s too young or doesn’t really understand what’s going on or anything like that, she does not have to be there. I told her to express her feelings truthfully and not to feel ashamed of how she feels, regardless of what those feelings are.

We’ll see how it goes. It was nice to get a break from the chaos and I was happy that I barely noticed that W was there. The separate rooms and cars were absolutely necessary so thank you to all who reinforced that idea when I was wavering.

How do you feel about all of that ^^^^ ??

How you did..??

How you reacted, or if you acted, rather than REacted ???

What could you have done better ??

How were the M&M's ??? : )

[Ready2Change]

On Sunday, I got a text from W while she was in her hotel room saying “I’m not leaving the house until I have a legal parenting plan in place. If you have any suggestions on what you would like, please let me know and we can see if we can agree to get me out of the house and moving forward.”

She responded with another red flag text about not feeling safe in the house because I yelled at her with the kids there. I did not respond.

Good job not responding.

Hopefully you are keep a notebook with details. Did you yell at her? Or did you slightly raise your voice? Just clarify your version in your notes. You can always share the details with Lawyer and get advise.

Have you read divorce poison? If not, might want to move that up on your reading list.

If she continues to make false claims, use your phone to record the interactions. Never be alone with her.

[DW17]

I can't say enough about making sure that you don't get between the kids and their mom, while also keeping your focus on yourself and the personal changes you'd like to make within, so that you're a husband only a fool will leave.

Thanks for emphasizing this bttrfly. I’m not sure if my conversations with D18 have crossed a line with her relationship with her mom or not. Are there any specific things I’ve mentioned that you feel I should be more cautious about?

How do you feel about all of that ^^^^ ??

How you did..??

How you reacted, or if you acted, rather than REacted ???

What could you have done better ??

How were the M&M's ??? : )

I’m not exactly sure how I feel about how I did. It’s nice to no longer care about speaking up for myself, but at the same time I’ve spent months avoiding raising my voice at all. I do wish that I said many of the same things, only more calmly. When W walked in the bathroom, I said we could talk when I got out of the shower. Instead, she opened the shower door and started the conversation. I cut her off when the BS started coming out of her mouth, and at the end told her to get out of there. She wasn’t coming to me with her feelings, she was blaming me for her family finding out. I guess I just stopped caring about validating and empathy. And even during the weekend I mostly stopped thinking about her and her feelings at all. The exception was at the rental car place because I could see her getting anxiety. I helped her get her car and she followed me to the hotel. It’s hard because I obviously care about her. Part of me feels guilty for ignoring how she feels. She is my wife and her head is a mess right now. But I also had a much better time by not worrying about that.

I think she is going to finally be more proactive about completing the D process. I do finally feel like my personal life will be better without her. I am at peace with that part for the moment. But I do feel like things will be worse for D5 and I struggle with whether I am still honoring my vows if I give up. I do still view W as a person going through a mental health crisis. I have no way to know if that is temporary or not. Long ago, after the first PA and even at the beginning of this sitch, I said if I knew she cheated on me I was done. Obviously I’ve “known” for a while now, I wasn’t sure how I’d react when it came out of her mouth. So far my reaction has been a confirmation that I do deserve better.

As far as acting vs reacting, I don’t know. I reacted to her bombarding me in the shower. I acted during the trip by focusing on myself. If I could do the whole weekend over, I don’t think I would done anything different. I feel good emotionally with the exception of potentially losing 50% of my time with D5.

Oh, and the M&M’s… I think W must have been eating those because I was too busy doing other things. I didn’t spend much time in my room and I thought I’d have some reading time, but didn’t touch my book either. Trying to continue with my GAL. I only ran once while I was gone, so I gotta start back up today. Got a ticket to a show with friends while I was gone. And I need to figure out weekend plans. M&M’s are going to have to wait.

[bttrfly]

DW, I don't know how to answer that, because I've obviously not been privvy to the conversations. That said, here's some suggestions:

* Never throw w under the bus

* You can say that you're sorry daughter feels x, y, z, all the while reminding D that her mother loves her.

* You can try to help D find a bigger perspective on this, if that's applicable. In my case, I have no compunction about throwing my ex in laws under the bus. They created this mess, we all know it and have been open about it for years. My son's never met his grandfather because my exh cut him out of our lives 4 years before we had our son. Son knows exactly what I mean when I say, "Look at the role models your dad had as a kid. He may be doing a lousy job, but he's definitely doing the best he can and treating you better than he was treated."

Some thoughts. Take what applies, leave the rest.

[DW17]

Things have been mostly uneventful the past week and I've been pretty busy. Only a few little updates to my sitch.

W did take D18 with her to IC last week and it went as expected. The IC and W tried to convince D18 that she doesn’t know what’s actually going on and nothing her mom is doing is wrong. D18 wasn’t buying it and let them know that. She said she voiced pretty much all of her concerns and didn’t shy away this time, which upset her mom. She told me the IC is terrible and is probably causing more problems than she is helping with. I told her that she can’t control that and to just focus on her relationship with her mom. One positive thing she told me was that they asked D18 to find a neutral person she can go to when she is mad at me and a person she can go to when she’s upset with her mom, that way she isn’t going to each of us with her concerns about the other one. I just made sure D18 is comfortable with the people she chose and she said yes. Neither W nor I know who she picked, which is also good. D18 was invited back whenever she wants, but I don’t think she plans on going again.

I got to watch D5 and D7 playing indoor soccer. As I mentioned previously, OM has a child playing in the same age group. D18 had already told me about it, but W didn’t know that I knew and decided to wait until a few days before their first game to tell me. She said something like “I’m just letting you know because you might cross paths, and they’ll play against each other and I don’t want you to cause a scene.” I told W she can take care of the team for the remaining games. It’s frustrating because I set the team up, I socialize with the parents and I was supposed to be coaching them since their regular coach got sent out of state for work. But I’m choosing not to put myself in that position and will find other activities to engage with the kids.

I still have not received a parenting plan or and other paperwork from W. Not sure why I still expect her to meet her self-imposed deadlines. She originally thought we’d be D’d in November. She’s still in the house until we have a legal parenting plan. We did separate one bank account and our phone plan. Our other bank account will be split as soon as W fills out a form for a direct deposit change. I printed the form right after we left the bank. It’s still sitting on the counter.

A thing I’ve been thinking about recently is in regards to W dragging her feet on things. At what point do I just start pushing things forward. I am in no hurry to move on and W moved on long ago. In some ways it benefits me to let things drag on. It keeps some stability in the house for the kids for the time being, especially until D18 goes to college. And if the market goes to crap, it’ll be way easier for me to keep the house after D. I guess there aren’t really any cons to my situation as long as I can emotionally handle things. Valentine’s Day hurt, but it felt a little like closure. Or another step toward detachment at least. Maybe I’ve answered my own question. It’s tough juggling wanting to move forward with letting things play out. Doing nothing is sometimes doing something. But sometimes it feels like delaying the inevitable. But at least it’s a choice that I get to make. I’ll let the month of March play out and see where things go from there.

As far as my GAL, it’s going great. A chaperone from the soccer trip invited a few of us, including W, to a trivia night at a local brewery with her friends. I was the only one who went. Didn’t know anyone else, but met some cool people and had fun. They go every Friday so I have that option whenever I want, which is nice. I got back into my running program and finished week 10 and I finally signed up for my half-marathon which is in 2 weeks. I think I will start up the Insanity workouts again after my running is done, and actually finish it this time. When the weather improves a bit, I’ll be able to start doing a bunch of hiking too.

That’s pretty much it. I hope everyone is doing well.

[DW17]

I forgot one more thing, there's been a few times since my sitch started where W was trying to act like her old self. You could tell it was draining on her just being upstairs with the rest of the family doing "normal" things like cleaning, watching a movie or taking care of D5. It was like she was forcing herself to do it and could only last a couple of days. Since her last IC, she's gone back to trying to be a good mom, but it feels genuine this time.

I know one of the things D18 said to her at IC was that she just wants her mom back. That was D18's reasoning for telling her cousin what was going on also - to get her mom back. I'm assuming that's what caused this change in behavior. It's nice because I haven't felt like a single parent for the past week. It doesn't impact anything regarding us, but it's nice to have her interact with her own children, even if it ends up being temporary again.

Just thought it was an interesting observation.

[Rockon]

It is a good thing to see them interacting positively. And it is a meaningful request from D to have her mom back.

[Rockon]

How are you DW?

[DW17]

I'm doing okay. I've noticed I've been less patient and more angry with W lately, so I've been trying to distract myself from that by keeping busy. I’ve got some indoor vegetable/herb starters going. I’ve got my half marathon coming up on Saturday. W and the girls will be out of town this weekend visiting W’s cousin (the cousin who found out everything through D18) so I’m trying to figure fill up my weekend. I’ve got several options with friends, family and potential new friends, just trying to decide on what exactly I want to do. I’m juggling a few books again and finding it hard to dedicate time to them. I’ve also been trying to help S19 with getting a new job and I have to plan a trip with D19 to go visit the college she is going to next year.

I have almost completed filling out D paperwork. It feels increasingly likely that I’ll be the one to file. W refuses to take action on anything and it’s getting increasingly harder to live like this. I don’t know what she’s waiting for but I increasingly look forward to the relief of moving on. I think I have a good plan in place to be able to keep the house, but it depends on whether she’ll agree. I struggle with the balance of waiting things out and taking action to avoid delaying the inevitable. Since Valentine’s Day I’ve had a hard time thinking of any kind of positive thoughts toward W. At home I don’t want to see her, talk to her or even hear her voice. And I keep feeling a need to let people know what’s going on with us. It’s hard to keep all of this to only a handful of people. But I know that time will come and until then I have to do what’s best for myself and my kids.

I still plan to hold off on any decisions this month and reevaluate if my feelings have changed at the end of the month. But yeah, I wouldn’t say I’m doing great, but I’m doing okay.

I’m still following your thread, but I’ve been pretty quiet here. How are things going with you? Seems we are both experiencing feelings of anger these days. I hope you are finding productive ways of handling it as well.

[Rockon]

Sounds really challenging DW. Great job with what you are doing to be well and healthy! And a 1/2 marathon - impressive!

I can appreciate holding off and going through feelings while nor rushing into big decisions. Same here!

Lots of things are going well for me here. Most noticeably I’m going deeper with God and His work in me and I’m connecting well with our kids and close friends. Going through enormous challenges and intense emotions including lots of anger. Not hiding from it or pretending but staying in charge of how I express it. Nature is a good place -thanks to BF for highlighting that and intense exercise too - thanks Kind.

[Rockon]

Hi DW, how are you doing? What’s going well for you? How can we be a supportive community ?

[DW17]

Thanks for checking in Rock. Work/home have been pretty busy, but I should have plenty of free time at both places now. I’m back to not posting much, but I’m still doing well. I have been waiting to see if my feelings would shift back toward wanting to stay with my wife and they still have not shifted. I think Valentine’s Day kind of broke that for me. It’s weird that W cheating on me wasn’t necessarily a deal breaker, but rubbing it in my face on that day by bringing a gift and flowers from OM into the house caused a pain that I don’t know that I’ll get over. I will forgive someday, but I don’t think I will ever want to be with her again. If that changes, I’ll go from there, but that would take a lot of work from W that I am not anticipating. And that assumes she ever decides she wants to be with me again, which I’m not confident in either.

There has been some recent changes as well. This weekend I went with D18 to visit the college she is going to. While out of town, W moved out and is staying with a friend about 30 minutes away. I had anticipated this prior to leaving, so it wasn’t a shock. It’s honestly more a relief.

She also sent an email describing her preferred parenting plan. It is 50/50 with a rotating 2-2-3 schedule. I was comfortable with everything described in the email except for her wanting it in the plan that D5 is not to be alone around my family. There is absolutely no basis for this, so I’m not sure why she continues to bring it up, but I will not sign off on anything with that verbiage. I’m not sure if she can even do that. I know that whatever plan we start with is likely to be the plan that is set moving forward, so I want to run it by the L first.

I am also planning on initiating the D paperwork ASAP. I’ve got a good start on it and need to talk to my L about a few questions I had. W is supposed to be meeting with a L in a few weeks as well, but she still has not completed filling things out, so I plan to be the one to start the process. If nothing else, striking first may help with me being able to keep the house rather than selling it.

I am at peace with separating. It was kind of nice not having most of her things in the house when we got back. I also got my exercise area back so I am starting up the Insanity workouts today. I’ve stayed in constant communication with the kids about things and they are doing okay with it. I’ll continue to monitor and support them.

D18 had a lot of fun on the trip and is excited to go to school there. I had fun exploring the downtown of the city. I was only there for a night and the next day, but I got to check out a lot of stuff. Watched some March Madness at a few cool sports bars. Took a bunch of pictures of the cool scenery. The travel was a mess with delays and a canceled flight, but made it through all of that. I’m excited to have a schedule for things now rather than the unmet expectations that come with IHS. I may feel different in a week, but so far this seems to be what acceptance is supposed to feel like. An increasingly larger part of me is excited for the future. Just gotta make sure I can keep the house and I think the rest will fall into place.

So yeah, some big changes, but they just happened in the last 2 days while I was gone. I’ve been staying busy and continuing to build my social network. It continues to be awesome. I've been smiling for days.

Thanks again Rock for checking in. I still follow things on here and it seems like you are still battling some things as well. I see that you are spending a lot of time with your kids. Are you also finding ways to expand your social bubble? Next to exercising, that has been the single best thing I’ve found for helping with detachment. So keep pushing through man, I’m rooting for you!

[DW17]

Link to new thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2944629&#Post2944629