Action 4 - 11/26/22 05:50 PM
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 08:11 AM
Going to bed tired. Finishing this stage on Reno on time and on track. Getting ready to head out of town to go visit eldest D and granddaughter next week really looking forward to it.
W is reaching out a lot - about family, stuff kids are going through, etc. I’m busy GAL, working on the house hanging out with family and friends. Today, W and her mom went unexpectedly (unexpected to me - W had told me that D didn’t want to do Christmas this year) to a Christmas craft event with my mom and sister. AfterW called and asked if she could drop by with her mom to see me. Said sure I’m working on the house. There was some tension at first with W’s mom expressing her opinions and being somewhat bossy towards W. I projected peace and calm and kept at my work while engaging in a friendly way and observed W stand up for herself to her mom. W delivered a beautiful wreath she made for our home and said she was impressed with the state of the Reno “it looks really good.” In the past she has been a very active participant looking after our home and and also a savvy agent with me in our renovations. This time I have been doing it without her. W called later and talked
They weren’t here that long but after the tension broke things were quite peaceful before they left. For me, even more peaceful after they left.
Wreath looks amazing on our door and was much appreciated.
Talking about bringing S home for a pass at Christmas. W has invited us over to her mom’s for Christmas Eve. Not sure how to navigate this stuff. I think if it weren’t for our kids and S’s special needs in particular, I might have said I had plans. S would likely appreciate me there and benefit from me being present but I am cool with him being there without me if he likes. We will also be consulting and following direction from the professional team. Still a ways away and time to plan.
Still seems like so much up in air to me. Staying focused on what I can control (me) and what’s important.
W is reaching out a lot - about family, stuff kids are going through, etc. I’m busy GAL, working on the house hanging out with family and friends. Today, W and her mom went unexpectedly (unexpected to me - W had told me that D didn’t want to do Christmas this year) to a Christmas craft event with my mom and sister. AfterW called and asked if she could drop by with her mom to see me. Said sure I’m working on the house. There was some tension at first with W’s mom expressing her opinions and being somewhat bossy towards W. I projected peace and calm and kept at my work while engaging in a friendly way and observed W stand up for herself to her mom. W delivered a beautiful wreath she made for our home and said she was impressed with the state of the Reno “it looks really good.” In the past she has been a very active participant looking after our home and and also a savvy agent with me in our renovations. This time I have been doing it without her. W called later and talked
They weren’t here that long but after the tension broke things were quite peaceful before they left. For me, even more peaceful after they left.
Wreath looks amazing on our door and was much appreciated.
Talking about bringing S home for a pass at Christmas. W has invited us over to her mom’s for Christmas Eve. Not sure how to navigate this stuff. I think if it weren’t for our kids and S’s special needs in particular, I might have said I had plans. S would likely appreciate me there and benefit from me being present but I am cool with him being there without me if he likes. We will also be consulting and following direction from the professional team. Still a ways away and time to plan.
Still seems like so much up in air to me. Staying focused on what I can control (me) and what’s important.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 12:10 PM
Rock you are very good at rationalizing reasons to engage. Cats out of the bag remember your W forced you to start telling everyone you are separated. I think they will understand why you are not together for Christmas. WWs have agendas with everything they do. Your W made you go public because she was either spotted with OM or plans or plans to go public with him. The gifts and family Christmas is her way to show the kids see dad is fine and we are still friends. Your GAL is strong but not good when you’re W comes a calling. You can never, ever, ever give her too much space.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 06:19 PM
LH thanks for this yes I am having a hard time. Doing somewhat better at times but keep getting pulled back in. I think I’m improving in detaching at least a little more and not initiating contact. But yes I see lots of engagement.
She has not forced me to start telling everyone though. Since the “cats out of the bag” talk, there has been some process. I told her I am going at my pace and while I hear her concerns and suggestions to tell more people, I’m not there. Yes we ended up telling S together and upon reflection, I’m happy with how we went about that. Other than S and a close friend who is a great support to us and who’s helping me with my Reno, I haven’t told anyone new since that talk - not my parents, not other friends. She has told a couple others so that she can be honest and not so lonely, she said - not pretend anymore.
She has not forced me to start telling everyone though. Since the “cats out of the bag” talk, there has been some process. I told her I am going at my pace and while I hear her concerns and suggestions to tell more people, I’m not there. Yes we ended up telling S together and upon reflection, I’m happy with how we went about that. Other than S and a close friend who is a great support to us and who’s helping me with my Reno, I haven’t told anyone new since that talk - not my parents, not other friends. She has told a couple others so that she can be honest and not so lonely, she said - not pretend anymore.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
She has told a couple others so that she can be honest and not so lonely, she said - not pretend anymore.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 07:45 PM
Rockon,
You've repeatedly gotten advice to be out and busy and less available to your wife. To give her more space than she wants. How does answering her call and saying she could come over with your MIL fit into that?
Why did you answer her call?
If they hadn't come over you wouldn't have had any tension, no?
Interesting.
You accepted a wreath from a woman who is betraying you? What if you throw it out and get your own decoration. Are you afraid that might ruin your chances to R?
"Thanks, but I have plans!" With a wry smile.
You can't protect your kids from your W's decisions.
Because she can't force you to do anything. Just like you can't force her to do anything. You control you. W controls W. Do the right thing and what's best for you - regardless of what W does, says, or wants.
Why on earth would you say all that too her? Way too much dialogue, especially on that topic. You did nothing wrong and she doesn't get you to tell who and when she wants you to. You shouldn't explain yourself at all. Stop engaging with this type of talk! Don't get emotional or pressure her with your feelings.
^^^This. Start listening to LH19.
Originally Posted by Rockon
After W called and asked if she could drop by with her mom to see me. Said sure I’m working on the house.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W called later and talked
Originally Posted by Rockon
They weren’t here that long but after the tension broke things were quite peaceful before they left.
Originally Posted by Rockon
For me, even more peaceful after they left.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Wreath looks amazing on our door and was much appreciated.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W has invited us over to her mom’s for Christmas Eve. Not sure how to navigate this stuff.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think if it weren’t for our kids and S’s special needs in particular, I might have said I had plans.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She has not forced me to start telling everyone though.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I told her I am going at my pace and while I hear her concerns and suggestions to tell more people, I’m not there.
Originally Posted by LH19
Rock you are very good at rationalizing reasons to engage. Cats out of the bag remember your W forced you to start telling everyone you are separated. I think they will understand why you are not together for Christmas. WWs have agendas with everything they do. Your W made you go public because she was either spotted with OM or plans or plans to go public with him. The gifts and family Christmas is her way to show the kids see dad is fine and we are still friends. Your GAL is strong but not good when you’re W comes a calling. You can never, ever, ever give her too much space.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Poor thing is lonely. I feel so bad for her. (Insert eye roll)
Once again, LH19 is all over it like a fat kid on a cookie.
And his analysis of the wreath and visit is correct. None of this is her being nice, reconnecting, seeing your changes.
ALL of it is her manipulating you and the situation. They want to tell other people it’s mutual to avoid feeling bad about ripping their family apart. The best way to do that is get you on board, telling people. You can guarantee she’s telling other people she “had to leave” and “Rockon agrees it’s for the best”.
What people do to avoid responsibility is incredible.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 10:05 PM
Rock,
You are walking down the path to divorce by ignoring the advice that we ignored and learned the hard way.
Always wear a condom when you have sex with a woman is solid advice. Those that do not listen to that advice are taking risks of STDs and possible pregnancies.
Give your wife more space than she asks for is just as solid advice. Those that do not listen to that advice end up divorced. You are friend zoned. She needs to feel like she has lost you. That is one thing I know from the successful guys here. She has to miss your friendship. There is more to it than that, but that is at the top of the pile.
No need to stop parenting, but do not let that be an excuse to engage with her. Just learn new ways of parenting.
We are on your side and want to see your wife have a change of heart. Your choices in behavior now will have the biggest effect on this.
You are walking down the path to divorce by ignoring the advice that we ignored and learned the hard way.
Always wear a condom when you have sex with a woman is solid advice. Those that do not listen to that advice are taking risks of STDs and possible pregnancies.
Give your wife more space than she asks for is just as solid advice. Those that do not listen to that advice end up divorced. You are friend zoned. She needs to feel like she has lost you. That is one thing I know from the successful guys here. She has to miss your friendship. There is more to it than that, but that is at the top of the pile.
No need to stop parenting, but do not let that be an excuse to engage with her. Just learn new ways of parenting.
We are on your side and want to see your wife have a change of heart. Your choices in behavior now will have the biggest effect on this.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by BL42
^^^This. Start listening to LH19.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by BL42
^^^This. Start listening to LH19.
Don’t tell me LH19 is getting too soft in his old age! Hahaha
You’re walking straight into the friend zone Rockon. That’s a one way ticket to loss of respect, and women CAN NOT be with a man they don’t respect.
If you’d said “I’m too busy, and it’s not appropriate for you drop in with your Mum” … this is what would have happened:
1. She blows up, starts being a b*tch. Throws toys out of the pram
2. You feel like crap because Mr Nice Guys don’t like to rock the boat and you want to nice her back
But…
3. She secretly would have respected you for being a man and standing up to her.
I’ll say it again - you have to get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable. You’re handing this divorce to her on a silver platter.
In my case, about 3 months after BD, I took my wedding ring off because I didn’t want to be with her any more and accepted the loss of our marriage. She saw me not wearing my ring about a week later, and in front of hundreds of people went absolutely ape sh*t. Screamed at me for taking it off, how dare I disrespect her like that, “I knew you were actually the one who wanted this divorce”… and then said “Doesn’t matter, I’ve only been wearing mine when you’re around anyway.”
This is from a woman who single-handedly had started an affair, initiated a highly acrimonious separation and divorce from a guy who just kept encouraging reconciliation. Go figure!
Why did she react like this? Because she had a narrative to her friends and to herself that it was all my fault, and when I finally stood up for myself and acted like a man, it didn’t fit with her plan.
When a controlling WW loses control over her Mr Nice Guy, they lose their sh**. It was horrible. But for the first time since BD, I felt like I was standing up for myself, and not playing along to her little script.
Why am I telling you this? It’s certainly not to encourage you to take your wedding ring off or bait her. It’s to implore you to stop dancing along to her little tune, because while you walk away from those interactions feeling more buoyed - you’re actually slowly putting the final nails in the coffin of your marriage.
You can not nice her back.
Women won’t reconcile with a man that they don’t respect.
Don’t do what feels comfortable.
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 11:13 PM
Sh** this is hard. I am listening guys
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Sh** this is hard. I am listening guys
Walk us through the thought process of inviting you W and MIL over. What did you think would come of it?
Re: Action 4 - 11/27/22 11:54 PM
Watch the Seinfeld episode called “the opposite”.
While it’s actually just comedy and it all comes crashing down for George, it will help you understand how your mindset needs to change.
Before BD - you were being Mr Nice Guy, and look where it got you.
After BD - if you keep being Mr Nice Guy, do you think what got you there in the first place is going to get you out of it?
Have you heard the saying that “The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!” ?
If what you’ve been doing for 5, 10 or 15 years hasn’t worked… maybe it’s time you tried something different.
While it’s actually just comedy and it all comes crashing down for George, it will help you understand how your mindset needs to change.
Before BD - you were being Mr Nice Guy, and look where it got you.
After BD - if you keep being Mr Nice Guy, do you think what got you there in the first place is going to get you out of it?
Have you heard the saying that “The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!” ?
If what you’ve been doing for 5, 10 or 15 years hasn’t worked… maybe it’s time you tried something different.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 02:32 AM
Ok I was working away and answered the phone when W called (1st mistake -
Answering - working was fine). W said can they come over ? I thought ya I can handle it (but I’ve handled a lot of crap over the years and W’s behaviour this summer/fall? Outrageous!) anyway I said yes but probably should have said I’m busy.
Answering - working was fine). W said can they come over ? I thought ya I can handle it (but I’ve handled a lot of crap over the years and W’s behaviour this summer/fall? Outrageous!) anyway I said yes but probably should have said I’m busy.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Sh** this is hard.
Originally Posted by LH19
It’s very hard.
We all have childhood belief systems that we never properly dealt with. Now is one of those times to look into that as well as finding new beliefs that have worked for others.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ok I was working away and answered the phone when W called (1st mistake -
Answering - working was fine). W said can they come over ? I thought ya I can handle it (but I’ve handled a lot of crap over the years and W’s behaviour this summer/fall? Outrageous!) anyway I said yes but probably should have said I’m busy.
Answering - working was fine). W said can they come over ? I thought ya I can handle it (but I’ve handled a lot of crap over the years and W’s behaviour this summer/fall? Outrageous!) anyway I said yes but probably should have said I’m busy.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 11:56 AM
Ya you’re not wrong. I do want her and her mom to be impressed. I am struggling big time and I’m the first person to say so. I don’t know how to do this. Trying to detach and go thru my emotions and make better choices.
But I also am taking pride in my home. Making it a place I like to be a place where D is loved and has a great home base to be with all that’s going on in her world. I’m entertaining friends and family - was mostly in the yard for fires but now with this part of Reno done planning some holiday socials.
So later that day I had a fall while painting and hurt my leg went to the ER. I’ll live. Finished painting last night.
But I also am taking pride in my home. Making it a place I like to be a place where D is loved and has a great home base to be with all that’s going on in her world. I’m entertaining friends and family - was mostly in the yard for fires but now with this part of Reno done planning some holiday socials.
So later that day I had a fall while painting and hurt my leg went to the ER. I’ll live. Finished painting last night.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 12:06 PM
I’m glad you’re ok.
Everything you said is perfect except including your W in the process. She doesn’t deserve to be in a place with you full of peace and love. Maybe some day just not right now.
Everything you said is perfect except including your W in the process. She doesn’t deserve to be in a place with you full of peace and love. Maybe some day just not right now.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 12:27 PM
I know that’s true in my mind.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 01:27 PM
Rockon, at this point in your situation what is your biggest fear?
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 03:02 PM
Rockon,
Nothing wrong with taking pride in your home and doing renovations. In fact, I did a bunch of house projects after separation to keep busy and not let my mind dwell on my sitch. It's when the motivation to do that is to impress your W, and not for yourself.
I skimmed back through your threads. You really are crushing it with GAL: Hockey, surfing, men's group, fire w/friends, garden work, house reno, IC...etc. All great stuff. Keep those up.
Where you really need to focus is detaching and giving W space. Stop being emotionally available for her; stop easing her transition into leaving you. Don't ever be the one to reach out first. When she calls let it go to voicemail. Don't respond to her texts right away, and then only if it's about business.
It's not complicated. So like SteveLW says...
Also, if I were you I'd go back and re-read your threads and really take to heart the advice LH19, Kind18, Ready2Change, DnJ, and others gave and start implementing their suggestions.
Nothing wrong with taking pride in your home and doing renovations. In fact, I did a bunch of house projects after separation to keep busy and not let my mind dwell on my sitch. It's when the motivation to do that is to impress your W, and not for yourself.
I skimmed back through your threads. You really are crushing it with GAL: Hockey, surfing, men's group, fire w/friends, garden work, house reno, IC...etc. All great stuff. Keep those up.
Where you really need to focus is detaching and giving W space. Stop being emotionally available for her; stop easing her transition into leaving you. Don't ever be the one to reach out first. When she calls let it go to voicemail. Don't respond to her texts right away, and then only if it's about business.
It's not complicated. So like SteveLW says...
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Rockon, at this point in your situation what is your biggest fear?
Also, if I were you I'd go back and re-read your threads and really take to heart the advice LH19, Kind18, Ready2Change, DnJ, and others gave and start implementing their suggestions.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 04:13 PM
Probably right now my biggest fear would be the potential impact on youngest S. So far he seems to be rolling along quite well not phased on the surface at least.
I don’t fear being alone - I’m not and I am happy with the life I’m carving out and the excitement I have with future growth and possibilities.
I guess I also worry about W and her happiness. I don’t control her so I can’t make her happy but I don’t like to see her in pain.
I don’t fear being alone - I’m not and I am happy with the life I’m carving out and the excitement I have with future growth and possibilities.
I guess I also worry about W and her happiness. I don’t control her so I can’t make her happy but I don’t like to see her in pain.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 04:20 PM
Good Morning Rock
The heart lags behind. It’s take a little while, along with a consistent effort, to influence our heart.
None of us knew how when we first got here either.
Decades of relationship/marriage is no small thing to release and let go of.
Severing that tie. Severing. Cutting off. Probably feels wrong.
I struggled with detachment too, because I didn’t want to let go. Severing seemed so wrong. Felt so wrong. Three decades of caring, how does one just let go of that.
The interesting thing - well, once you get to the other side - it’s not about severing a connection. It’s not about becoming uncaring or such. Detachment is, like most things on this journey, about you.
To detach, one first needs to realize they need to. And then, that they want to.
The first part, realizing the need to detach. When to let go? It’s a key question everyone has, yet don’t really consider. Detaching doesn’t mean you are a abandoning that person, or stopped caring about them. You are just detaching, emotionally removing yourself, from an unhealthy relationship is all. It’s a protective measure.
Consider how the relationship, her actions, her words, are affecting you and your mental health. Stirred up, dragged around, worried, anxious, etc. That’s quite a caldron of unhealthy brew one keeps drinking down.
So, one realizes their need. Now, you have to want to. Want to stop getting dragged about. Want to push that toxic brew away. That is the problem area for folks.
Sure one wants that. Yet, they want the pain more. Want to feel more. Even if it is not good for them. Ah, grief. It’s bargaining. The last vestige of trying to hang on to that old normal. Let go. Detach.
Grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Anger and bargaining happen when one is attached. If one is detached, and more so indifferent (the next step), they are not dragged about. You ain’t going to be angry at something unless you have some attachment to it. You don’t emotionally self-bargain over things that don’t pull you around.
Wanting detachment. No easy thing. None of us wanted to be here. Yet, here we are. And now we are figuring out how to actually want this?!?
It’s about you.
You want your health. You want your emotional space to sort things out and be healthy.
How does one detach?
First off, is identifying the reason. All that above stuff.
The following steps and strategies are not linear, and not in any particular order. Depending on the individual they might require more or less of certain steps compared to others.
Realize your emotions. A good cry. A strenuous run. A punching bag. Yard work. Some safe healthy mechanism to release pent up feelings. Often sweating it out is a good strategy.
Don’t react, respond. Reactions are those immediate words or actions from an impulse. Often driven by emotions. Control your reacting. Implement a 24-48 hour rule. Give yourself 24-48 hours before responding to any texts or questions from W. Realize that most things will not be too urgent. For the truly urgent matters. Take a breath. Then respond. It’s about being thoughtful and measured in your responses. Create for yourself a buffer to not making split-second reactive decisions.
Meditating can be helpful. Training one to be mindful and focused. Reduces stress and increases calm. Sitting still is doing something. And answers will present themselves when one is calm.
Keeping a journal is a way to flush out those feelings. It also provides written proof of how far one has come. Folks are often further along than they feel. Like I said, it take a while for the heart to catch up.
Be kind and patient with yourself. Letting go of such an important relationship is difficult, extend yourself some grace as you move forward.
Look forward. It is only natural to look back. However, that encourages attachment. Look towards your future and the positives that are there.
No drugs and/or alcohol. Do not utilize these for coping. They might provide some temporary forgetting and relief, yet they reinforce attachment.
Everyone requires a certain amount of understanding before they will let go. Detachment is not cruel or selfish, it’s for your health. You are the most important person in this equation. Don’t forget that.
D
Originally Posted by Rockon
I know that’s true in my mind.
The heart lags behind. It’s take a little while, along with a consistent effort, to influence our heart.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I am struggling big time and I’m the first person to say so. I don’t know how to do this. Trying to detach and go thru my emotions and make better choices.
None of us knew how when we first got here either.
Decades of relationship/marriage is no small thing to release and let go of.
Severing that tie. Severing. Cutting off. Probably feels wrong.
I struggled with detachment too, because I didn’t want to let go. Severing seemed so wrong. Felt so wrong. Three decades of caring, how does one just let go of that.
The interesting thing - well, once you get to the other side - it’s not about severing a connection. It’s not about becoming uncaring or such. Detachment is, like most things on this journey, about you.
To detach, one first needs to realize they need to. And then, that they want to.
The first part, realizing the need to detach. When to let go? It’s a key question everyone has, yet don’t really consider. Detaching doesn’t mean you are a abandoning that person, or stopped caring about them. You are just detaching, emotionally removing yourself, from an unhealthy relationship is all. It’s a protective measure.
Consider how the relationship, her actions, her words, are affecting you and your mental health. Stirred up, dragged around, worried, anxious, etc. That’s quite a caldron of unhealthy brew one keeps drinking down.
So, one realizes their need. Now, you have to want to. Want to stop getting dragged about. Want to push that toxic brew away. That is the problem area for folks.
Sure one wants that. Yet, they want the pain more. Want to feel more. Even if it is not good for them. Ah, grief. It’s bargaining. The last vestige of trying to hang on to that old normal. Let go. Detach.
Grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Anger and bargaining happen when one is attached. If one is detached, and more so indifferent (the next step), they are not dragged about. You ain’t going to be angry at something unless you have some attachment to it. You don’t emotionally self-bargain over things that don’t pull you around.
Wanting detachment. No easy thing. None of us wanted to be here. Yet, here we are. And now we are figuring out how to actually want this?!?
It’s about you.
You want your health. You want your emotional space to sort things out and be healthy.
How does one detach?
First off, is identifying the reason. All that above stuff.
The following steps and strategies are not linear, and not in any particular order. Depending on the individual they might require more or less of certain steps compared to others.
Realize your emotions. A good cry. A strenuous run. A punching bag. Yard work. Some safe healthy mechanism to release pent up feelings. Often sweating it out is a good strategy.
Don’t react, respond. Reactions are those immediate words or actions from an impulse. Often driven by emotions. Control your reacting. Implement a 24-48 hour rule. Give yourself 24-48 hours before responding to any texts or questions from W. Realize that most things will not be too urgent. For the truly urgent matters. Take a breath. Then respond. It’s about being thoughtful and measured in your responses. Create for yourself a buffer to not making split-second reactive decisions.
Meditating can be helpful. Training one to be mindful and focused. Reduces stress and increases calm. Sitting still is doing something. And answers will present themselves when one is calm.
Keeping a journal is a way to flush out those feelings. It also provides written proof of how far one has come. Folks are often further along than they feel. Like I said, it take a while for the heart to catch up.
Be kind and patient with yourself. Letting go of such an important relationship is difficult, extend yourself some grace as you move forward.
Look forward. It is only natural to look back. However, that encourages attachment. Look towards your future and the positives that are there.
No drugs and/or alcohol. Do not utilize these for coping. They might provide some temporary forgetting and relief, yet they reinforce attachment.
Everyone requires a certain amount of understanding before they will let go. Detachment is not cruel or selfish, it’s for your health. You are the most important person in this equation. Don’t forget that.
D
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 04:21 PM
Thanks BL I will re read and heed what you and others have so thoughtfully said. I think I’m at a stage where I get to make these habits stick and be permanent because they make the most sense for who I am and the kind of life I want to have.
In hindsight I was making many of these changes (boxing, hiking, better nutrition, therapy, looking after our home in/out) in the year leading up to BD, but now I’m doing them without W living here. Also, my psychological treatment really started to make a difference for me I would say in this fall - took some time to take hold.
In hindsight I was making many of these changes (boxing, hiking, better nutrition, therapy, looking after our home in/out) in the year leading up to BD, but now I’m doing them without W living here. Also, my psychological treatment really started to make a difference for me I would say in this fall - took some time to take hold.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 04:30 PM
Hmmmm D, lots to ponder and pecolate/germinate 🔀↩️🔄 and appreciate the non linear. Following what I just said to BL about the positive changes I had begun, just recently have I been standing up for myself more and I think that detaching will help with that. Standing my ground and the 24/4& hr rule can help me consolidate my values, priorities and convictions into my communication and actions.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 05:23 PM
And it’s going to take focused learning and practice like learning any new skill. One thing that really resonates is that I hope to shed NGS and yet be strong and remain assertive, kind and loving in my life not vindictive or passive/aggressive at all.
Re: Action 4 - 11/28/22 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Probably right now my biggest fear would be the potential impact on youngest S. So far he seems to be rolling along quite well not phased on the surface at least.
I don’t fear being alone - I’m not and I am happy with the life I’m carving out and the excitement I have with future growth and possibilities.
I guess I also worry about W and her happiness. I don’t control her so I can’t make her happy but I don’t like to see her in pain.
I don’t fear being alone - I’m not and I am happy with the life I’m carving out and the excitement I have with future growth and possibilities.
I guess I also worry about W and her happiness. I don’t control her so I can’t make her happy but I don’t like to see her in pain.
Great! So on your youngest S how do you take action on that fear?
I'll ignore the last paragraph. Her happiness is up to her, not you.
Re: Action 4 - 11/29/22 05:40 AM
Action with regards to S: I am working at being the best man version of me and the best dad I can. I am learning about healthy relationships and transitions as he is an adult with special needs. I recognize his capacity for growth and I hope that he also has a really great relationship with his mom. I speak well of her to him and others.
Re: Action 4 - 11/29/22 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I speak well of her to him and others.
Originally Posted by Rockon
blindsided me this summer with not wanting to be married anymore and moved out. I understand she has been (might still be) in an affair of some sorts but she has told me that she is not ready to talk about it
Detaching and getting to indifference is your goal. Do you talk well about the hostess that seated you at the last restaurant you ate at? Most likely you were polite and did not discuss anything personal. That is your goal with W. And I would not be too polite based off of your W's disrespect.
Re: Action 4 - 11/29/22 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Action with regards to S: I am working at being the best man version of me and the best dad I can. I am learning about healthy relationships and transitions as he is an adult with special needs. I recognize his capacity for growth and I hope that he also has a really great relationship with his mom. I speak well of her to him and others.
BINGO!
Great answer.
Re: Action 4 - 11/29/22 05:57 PM
“ "I want your mother to be happy" is a perfectly good statement to him as well as expressing to him that you want the two of them to have a good relationship.”
That’s a good distinction and it more accurately reflects the code I follow. I have said expressed those thoughts to him and I’ve been congruent with my actions.
And no, nothing has changed. You are right
That’s a good distinction and it more accurately reflects the code I follow. I have said expressed those thoughts to him and I’ve been congruent with my actions.
And no, nothing has changed. You are right
Re: Action 4 - 11/30/22 12:13 AM
Rockon,
R2C makes good points here. I'd spend some time thinking about them.
You say your biggest fear is "the potential impact on youngest S" and that you're "not scared of being alone". Far enough. But while that may be true I still get the sense you're scared of losing W and your sense of family. That's completely understandable. I get it, and wouldn't fault you for it. However, you need to flip the narrative and regain your power. Right now you're acting meek and weak. I don't sense your anger or desire to stand up for yourself. The anger will come for sure. But will you get strong and not tolerate this behavior? Not only for yourself, but as an example for your children on how to behave when someone betrays you?
Previously you floated the possibility of picking her up from the airport after her trip abroad with OM. Kind18 told you a better approach would be to drop her off, tell her good luck and you're changing the locks and hand her your L's card as she left.
Now I ask you...is the wreath she gave you still hanging on your door?
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
I believe there is a difference between "speaking well" of someone and "not speaking bad" about them.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
And I would not be too polite based off of your W's disrespect.
You say your biggest fear is "the potential impact on youngest S" and that you're "not scared of being alone". Far enough. But while that may be true I still get the sense you're scared of losing W and your sense of family. That's completely understandable. I get it, and wouldn't fault you for it. However, you need to flip the narrative and regain your power. Right now you're acting meek and weak. I don't sense your anger or desire to stand up for yourself. The anger will come for sure. But will you get strong and not tolerate this behavior? Not only for yourself, but as an example for your children on how to behave when someone betrays you?
Previously you floated the possibility of picking her up from the airport after her trip abroad with OM. Kind18 told you a better approach would be to drop her off, tell her good luck and you're changing the locks and hand her your L's card as she left.
Now I ask you...is the wreath she gave you still hanging on your door?
Re: Action 4 - 11/30/22 05:05 PM
I’m thinking about these things. So I flew away yesterday.
I’m in another country spending time with D and granddaughter. This is for me and them. It’s what I want and how I want to spend this time. On the plane (it’s been a long time since I have flown anywhere) I noticed something after takeoff (I love takeoff):
I began to feel so peaceful, calm and took my attention off the inflight movie and started to have the best nap. I noticed no anxiety, no worries or concerns and it occurred to me that I was not thinking about W or anything and it felt great.
BL you said, “I still get the sense you're scared of losing W and your sense of family. That's completely understandable.”
Accurate, I am scared of that and don’t want that. I don’t like that pain at all.
And then “However, you need to flip the narrative and regain your power. Right now you're acting meek and weak. I don't sense your anger or desire to stand up for yourself. The anger will come for sure. But will you get strong and not tolerate this behavior? Not only for yourself, but as an example for your children on how to behave when someone betrays you?”
I am seeing this more clearly and I hope that it will crystallize more as I detach, BE strong and take decisive action aligned with what I know to be true to actualize control of myself, not her and not other matters I don’t control. The anger is there and I am working in therapy and homework on not ignoring, suppressing or minimizing that anger but rather riding the waves, feeling it and considering thoughtful, wise responsive action - in some cases waiting and time and doing nothing is the appropriate action. But I want to see how to flip the narrative and regain my power as you say.
I acknowledge that I have not done this well (standing up for myself, not to.erasing being treated poorly) maybe ever, or rarely? Maybe I learned this behaviour (passivity,meekness) growing up? The thing is I know how to do it in a sense (I am suddenly realizing) because I have been a fierce advocate defender and champion of vulnerable oppressed people in my work and volunteer life. A lot of lights are starting to turn on - now I need to pay attention, need and act!
And for the sake of my children and what I want to pass onto them this is very important.
I’m in another country spending time with D and granddaughter. This is for me and them. It’s what I want and how I want to spend this time. On the plane (it’s been a long time since I have flown anywhere) I noticed something after takeoff (I love takeoff):
I began to feel so peaceful, calm and took my attention off the inflight movie and started to have the best nap. I noticed no anxiety, no worries or concerns and it occurred to me that I was not thinking about W or anything and it felt great.
BL you said, “I still get the sense you're scared of losing W and your sense of family. That's completely understandable.”
Accurate, I am scared of that and don’t want that. I don’t like that pain at all.
And then “However, you need to flip the narrative and regain your power. Right now you're acting meek and weak. I don't sense your anger or desire to stand up for yourself. The anger will come for sure. But will you get strong and not tolerate this behavior? Not only for yourself, but as an example for your children on how to behave when someone betrays you?”
I am seeing this more clearly and I hope that it will crystallize more as I detach, BE strong and take decisive action aligned with what I know to be true to actualize control of myself, not her and not other matters I don’t control. The anger is there and I am working in therapy and homework on not ignoring, suppressing or minimizing that anger but rather riding the waves, feeling it and considering thoughtful, wise responsive action - in some cases waiting and time and doing nothing is the appropriate action. But I want to see how to flip the narrative and regain my power as you say.
I acknowledge that I have not done this well (standing up for myself, not to.erasing being treated poorly) maybe ever, or rarely? Maybe I learned this behaviour (passivity,meekness) growing up? The thing is I know how to do it in a sense (I am suddenly realizing) because I have been a fierce advocate defender and champion of vulnerable oppressed people in my work and volunteer life. A lot of lights are starting to turn on - now I need to pay attention, need and act!
And for the sake of my children and what I want to pass onto them this is very important.
Re: Action 4 - 12/01/22 05:10 AM
Rockon,
Well done taking a trip to spend time with D and granddaughter. That's a perfect use of your time.
And glad you found some peace on the flight, but as you mention things will come in waves - there will be ups and downs - so make sure you recognize that and manage it.
Sounds like you're engage with IC over anger, which is good. I'm not convinced that's fully kicked in yet. Whether you and W reconcile or not that will be a significant emotion to deal with for awhile.
What I'd really like to see is you develop a defiant attitude towards W's behavior and betrayal of you. Start acting AS-IF. YOU are the prize and she is crazy to lose you. Not to overstate the wreath example, but you thanking her for that and hanging it on your front door sends a signal you're just sitting back pining for her and hoping she sees that on her former house and realizes she misses you and wants things back to normal. That attitude is NOT attractive. Instead, you saying "forget this!", throwing it out in the trash, decorating the place yourself and moving on like you don't have a care in the world for her says you're not going to put up with any BS and you're way too valuable. THAT attitude is attractive.
Well done taking a trip to spend time with D and granddaughter. That's a perfect use of your time.
And glad you found some peace on the flight, but as you mention things will come in waves - there will be ups and downs - so make sure you recognize that and manage it.
Sounds like you're engage with IC over anger, which is good. I'm not convinced that's fully kicked in yet. Whether you and W reconcile or not that will be a significant emotion to deal with for awhile.
What I'd really like to see is you develop a defiant attitude towards W's behavior and betrayal of you. Start acting AS-IF. YOU are the prize and she is crazy to lose you. Not to overstate the wreath example, but you thanking her for that and hanging it on your front door sends a signal you're just sitting back pining for her and hoping she sees that on her former house and realizes she misses you and wants things back to normal. That attitude is NOT attractive. Instead, you saying "forget this!", throwing it out in the trash, decorating the place yourself and moving on like you don't have a care in the world for her says you're not going to put up with any BS and you're way too valuable. THAT attitude is attractive.
Re: Action 4 - 12/01/22 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by BL42
What I'd really like to see is you develop a defiant attitude towards W's behavior and betrayal of you. Start acting AS-IF. YOU are the prize and she is crazy to lose you...decorating the place yourself and moving on like you don't have a care in the world for her says you're not going to put up with any BS and you're way too valuable. THAT attitude is attractive.
You don't do it in a mean way. You just do it. What are you afraid of? Do not let fear control you.
Re: Action 4 - 12/01/22 05:52 AM
RockOn, MikeP, Spiral, Brandon, Dats000, and JackyJoe:
You 6 are going though this right now together and would all benefit tremendously by frequently posting your "advise" to each other.
One of the best things about this site is being able to look into other peoples lives and think about how you would do things. You are not emotionally involved in the others sitch, so your logic can be applied much easier. It is much harder to look at ourselves because we are emotional invested in our own sitch. But when you think about the other persons sitch and can give them your advise, you help yourself in your sitch just by going through the thought process for someone else.
Just me 2 cents
You 6 are going though this right now together and would all benefit tremendously by frequently posting your "advise" to each other.
One of the best things about this site is being able to look into other peoples lives and think about how you would do things. You are not emotionally involved in the others sitch, so your logic can be applied much easier. It is much harder to look at ourselves because we are emotional invested in our own sitch. But when you think about the other persons sitch and can give them your advise, you help yourself in your sitch just by going through the thought process for someone else.
Just me 2 cents
Re: Action 4 - 12/01/22 12:05 PM
R2C is spot on.
Believe me, you all are smarter than you give yourself credit for, and have more answers and understanding inside you than you realize and currently feel. Sharing and supporting others are excellent catalysts to healing, understanding, compassion, empathy, and such.
D
Believe me, you all are smarter than you give yourself credit for, and have more answers and understanding inside you than you realize and currently feel. Sharing and supporting others are excellent catalysts to healing, understanding, compassion, empathy, and such.
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/01/22 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
RockOn, MikeP, Spiral, Brandon, Dats000, and JackyJoe:
You 6 are going though this right now together and would all benefit tremendously by frequently posting your "advise" to each other.
One of the best things about this site is being able to look into other peoples lives and think about how you would do things. You are not emotionally involved in the others sitch, so your logic can be applied much easier. It is much harder to look at ourselves because we are emotional invested in our own sitch. But when you think about the other persons sitch and can give them your advise, you help yourself in your sitch just by going through the thought process for someone else.
Just me 2 cents
You 6 are going though this right now together and would all benefit tremendously by frequently posting your "advise" to each other.
One of the best things about this site is being able to look into other peoples lives and think about how you would do things. You are not emotionally involved in the others sitch, so your logic can be applied much easier. It is much harder to look at ourselves because we are emotional invested in our own sitch. But when you think about the other persons sitch and can give them your advise, you help yourself in your sitch just by going through the thought process for someone else.
Just me 2 cents
Absolutely agree...
Y'all are the ones in the trenches together.
Stick together and be the "Band of Brothers"....
Re: Action 4 - 12/02/22 07:17 AM
Having an amazing time away with D and granddaughter - bonding connecting and being together in a very special way!
W is not on my mind that much. Good talks with D being there for her. Being honest and responsible I’m not bad talking W. D is really smart and sees between the lines. Wants my kindness not to be taken advantage of.
This trip is the best idea!
W is not on my mind that much. Good talks with D being there for her. Being honest and responsible I’m not bad talking W. D is really smart and sees between the lines. Wants my kindness not to be taken advantage of.
This trip is the best idea!
Re: Action 4 - 12/02/22 12:02 PM
Good Morning Rock
Very happy to hear your trip is going great.
Have a wonderful time.
D
Very happy to hear your trip is going great.
Have a wonderful time.
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 08:46 AM
Feeling the anger and indignation percolating at what W has done more now that I am away and spending time with D and granddaughter. Just that it’s really not ok and very wrong. Want to listen to this and proceed wisely.
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 02:50 PM
Good Morning Rock
Perfectly normal man.
Do not act upon this welling up of anger and hurt and resentment. Make no decisions based upon it. Process it, and let it go.
You know feelings are fleeting. And I know you will act and proceed with logic and wisdom.
Go get an ice cream with daughter and grand daughter. Something smothered in chocolate! Lol.
And sprinkles. And cherries. Oh and some cookies. And maybe peanuts. And whip cream. Oh my goodness, I should not type while hungry. Now I want an ice cream sundae. Hmmm, for breakfast?!?
Have a great day Rock!
D
Perfectly normal man.
Do not act upon this welling up of anger and hurt and resentment. Make no decisions based upon it. Process it, and let it go.
You know feelings are fleeting. And I know you will act and proceed with logic and wisdom.
Go get an ice cream with daughter and grand daughter. Something smothered in chocolate! Lol.
And sprinkles. And cherries. Oh and some cookies. And maybe peanuts. And whip cream. Oh my goodness, I should not type while hungry. Now I want an ice cream sundae. Hmmm, for breakfast?!?
Have a great day Rock!
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 02:57 PM
I will.
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 06:12 PM
Rockon,
What DnJ said. The anger is going to be there and come in waves too. It's not a week of it and done. It's going to be there for some extent for quite awhile. Make sure you have a good way to process through it.
What DnJ said. The anger is going to be there and come in waves too. It's not a week of it and done. It's going to be there for some extent for quite awhile. Make sure you have a good way to process through it.
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 07:06 PM
Thanks BL - will do
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Feeling the anger and indignation percolating
I let a lot out while I am driving and listening to music. Five Finger death punch "the bleeding" was my divorce song.
I plan on doing a "rage room". You pay to break things.
Some here talk about the gym.
Anger is pure energy that you can channel into something productive as well.
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 09:51 PM
R2C:
“One important thing is to release it when interacting with W.” do you mean *not* release it when interacting with W?
I expressed anger to her (calmly) at BD to her. But not sure how to interact now with her regarding anger. My thought is to deal with it in healthy ways at other times and spaces so it’s not volatile when I have to interact with her.
And I would think that potentially down the road and perhaps with professional help might be the way to process it with her eventually (or not).
“One important thing is to release it when interacting with W.” do you mean *not* release it when interacting with W?
I expressed anger to her (calmly) at BD to her. But not sure how to interact now with her regarding anger. My thought is to deal with it in healthy ways at other times and spaces so it’s not volatile when I have to interact with her.
And I would think that potentially down the road and perhaps with professional help might be the way to process it with her eventually (or not).
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 10:39 PM
Rockon,
This is ok, but...
You should mostly be processing it in your own way and not showing emotion to W.
Right! Hit a punching bag, lift some weights, go on a run...etc.
You should get professional help (IC) now. Not with her, by yourself. Whether you R or D you're going to have to deal with the associated anger in a healthy manner. IC can help you with that.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I expressed anger to her (calmly) at BD to her.
Originally Posted by Rockon
But not sure how to interact now with her regarding anger.
Originally Posted by Rockon
My thought is to deal with it in healthy ways at other times and spaces so it’s not volatile when I have to interact with her.
Originally Posted by Rockon
And I would think that potentially down the road and perhaps with professional help might be the way to process it with her eventually (or not).
Re: Action 4 - 12/03/22 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
R2C:"One important thing is to release it when interacting with W.” do you mean *not* release it when interacting with W?
Re: Action 4 - 12/04/22 12:45 AM
R2C, I modified your post to state what you intended write. By the way, you are giving top shelf advice. A pleasure to read. Lots of wisdom and help for posters. Well done.
Sharp eye Rock. Glad you pointed that out.
D
Sharp eye Rock. Glad you pointed that out.
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/04/22 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I expressed anger to her (calmly) at BD to her. But not sure how to interact now with her regarding anger. My thought is to deal with it in healthy ways at other times and spaces so it’s not volatile when I have to interact with her.
At BD, there is shock, disbelief, anger, etc. A hodgepodge of emotions suddenly flung about. And yes, we display all manner of emotions during such a triggering and unexpected event.
However, later, you are in command of you. Your anger is normal and part of your grief. You are the one who works through it. There is no need to express further anger towards W. It doesn’t serve you.
Put your emotions aside when dealing with her, and then process them and vent them in a safe manner later and elsewhere. If emotions are going to boil over, leave. Better to just leave, than to explode and fight with her.
Feelings do flit. Even passionate ones. Yet hurtful words and actions will remain long after the fire, the embers, of your anger has extinguished and cooled. (That is not just reserved for W, kind of applicable for everyone we interact with.)
Originally Posted by Rockon
Feeling the anger and indignation percolating at what W has done… Just that it’s really not ok and very wrong. Want to listen to this and proceed wisely.
Yes, you are wise. And I like you pausing and considering things. Very controlled. Nicely done.
A few ideas and suggestions that help let go of anger. Let go your ego.
Ah, ego. The need to know, the need to judge, the need to justify, and the need to be right.
There is nothing wrong with ego. It has both positive and negative aspects for various reasons. It is the mediator between one’s id and super ego, between passions and morals. It is necessary, and drives us to greatness. However, ego can get in the way. In your way. In your way of your happiness and healing.
We’ve all experienced those needing to “win” an argument moments. To have the last word. Even when we know it really doesn’t matter. We still felt driven to do so.
It’s interesting, when one stops feeding their internal need to prove or defend their position, their need to be right goes away on its own.
But what if the other person is really wrong?
Let’s say, you’ve explained your point and they won’t hear it. Ok. Let them be wrong. They’ll figure it out. Or they won’t. Let go needing to defend your position.
You can also come at things from the view of being accurate, instead of right. Accurate; not right or wrong. More factual, which removes emotions from the equation, and therefore the need to be right. Feeds the need to know instead.
Right and wrong are much in the eye of the beholder. And often people are entrenched and unwillingly to hear advice or truth that runs counter to their views, never mind heeding such advice. Their egos firmly justifying their stonewalled position.
I find the folks around here open to ideas and seek healing and enlightenment. While most of our spouses are firmly justifying their narratives. It pretty obvious which group you’d have better success speaking with.
Let go, give W time and space for her to find her way. You’ve no need to have the last word or be right. Well, ok, you do have. (I better be accurate huh? Lol.) Yet, you can let go that need.
Ego is a foundation and a strength. And a common stumbling block. There’s times to grasp one’s ego and times to let it rest. Peace and contentment stabilize when one figures out what and when those are.
By the way, the need to judge is one of the major stumbling blocks for finding forgiveness. As well as reinforcing one’s anger.
Take care.
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/04/22 01:47 AM
So appreciate the depth of experience and insights and also diligent moderating. Btw I hit it outta the park today - just treated us to the best ice cream after such a fun day together. I’m feeling like a success with what’s important to me and like I’m on track!
Re: Action 4 - 12/04/22 01:49 AM
Eldest D is really feeling the Love as I am!
Re: Action 4 - 12/04/22 05:31 PM
Having some reflection and journaling on my values and goals. Some aspects coming more into focus. It’s good.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 06:24 AM
Ok back from my trip and W has been reaching out. Some legitimate stuff for me to discuss about our kids including S with special needs so important for me to engage genuinely. Then she voices appreciation for what I did on my trip with D and GD. I replied it was important to me and very meaningful. She called me a term of endearment and I cut convo short said I gotta go..uncomfortable and unsteady place for me to be in conversation.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 07:03 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
...She called me a term of endearment and I cut convo short said I gotta go..uncomfortable and unsteady place for me to be in conversation.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 01:26 PM
Hey Rockon, another Newbie that's been following along. You're in a much better place than me with detaching. I still struggle with emotions when dealing with W, although she hasn't put me through near the pain your W has. One sad look or word from her and I still fall apart inside. If they could only feel how we feel for them. Of course, they would say, rightly so, we can't understand how they feel. Just wanted to chime in that I think you're doing awesome. Have a good day.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 03:15 PM
Mike I’m faking the detachment a lot of the time. And not doing well at it often. Vets here are telling me I’m engaging way too much and when you engage you lose. I am still trying to get it but it is coming more.
Still incredibly emotional for me but becoming more manageable. In therapy and outside of therapy I have been working on riding the waves of emotions letting them come up noticing them happening to me journaling or talking about it and being in it and then letting them go. Having a plan for GAL, good solid friends, exercise, prayer and nature are helping me.
For a long time, I have felt I have so much to say to W, but now is not the time. That has shifted some where now I am feeling more anger and pain that needs to be processed and that I want her to care about and feel but again now is not the time and W is not that person. Don’t know when how or if that will shift.
In her bids for connection lately I am picking up on hints that she is trying to go there a bit but I am actually trying to avoid it unless she is clearly stating it (that has not been happening much tho’.
I am determined to not bring up R talks. Some have happened that have been pretty unavoidable and that’s alright.
Still incredibly emotional for me but becoming more manageable. In therapy and outside of therapy I have been working on riding the waves of emotions letting them come up noticing them happening to me journaling or talking about it and being in it and then letting them go. Having a plan for GAL, good solid friends, exercise, prayer and nature are helping me.
For a long time, I have felt I have so much to say to W, but now is not the time. That has shifted some where now I am feeling more anger and pain that needs to be processed and that I want her to care about and feel but again now is not the time and W is not that person. Don’t know when how or if that will shift.
In her bids for connection lately I am picking up on hints that she is trying to go there a bit but I am actually trying to avoid it unless she is clearly stating it (that has not been happening much tho’.
I am determined to not bring up R talks. Some have happened that have been pretty unavoidable and that’s alright.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 03:30 PM
W recently said it would take a lot of work for us to be back living together. I agreed with her. Don’t know if in hindsight I should have asked her to tell me more. She wasn’t saying she wanted to move back in tho she has said on another occasion she thinks about it all the time.
Re: Action 4 - 12/05/22 03:41 PM
Rockon,
Fake it till you make it.
You control you. You have the power not to initiate R talks. IF your W initiates them you have the power to simply listen and validate and not pressure or debate and be the one to wrap up the conversation because you're a busy man with plans and leave with a smile on your face as if life is grand and you're excited to go out and live it.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Mike I’m faking the detachment a lot of the time. And not doing well at it often.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I am determined to not bring up R talks. Some have happened that have been pretty unavoidable and that’s alright.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 01:42 AM
Quote
Don’t know if in hindsight I should have asked her to tell me more.
Think about DB principles. You should be able to answer your own question by now.
Let me spell it out:
1. “Tell me more about what you’d need to move in”
- her brain “this guy is weak AF and he’s just sitting around waiting for me to come back. I can have him at any time. I’m not at risk of losing anything. I’ll keep him in my back pocket while I check out what else is available.”
2. “I don’t want to live with someone who isn’t sure they want to be with me. I’m going out for pizza and beers with some friends.”
- her brain “wow, he doesn’t seem to give a **** about me. Sounds like he’s getting on with his life. By the time I go through my MLC he might not be there waiting. He’s very in control of his emotions and strong. Doesn’t seem like he needs anyone. That’s attractive. What an alpha man.”
I’m not sure how much clearer I can spell it out.
99.9% of times, getting involved in discussions with a WS or WAS about your relationship is another nail in the coffin. It should be avoided at all costs.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 08:21 AM
Kind : this is getting through to me and I’m going there.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 05:04 PM
Having a lot of struggles still differentiating ways for W and I to communicate and coordinate details about family and our children’s complex challenges. I have been improving it seems to me in not initiating contact with W and not engaging outside of necessity, however there is a lot of necessity with respect to S’s complex care needs, etc. So it ends up adding up to a lot of contact altogether.
I am being unavailable for other contact and not responding right away and not answering her calls except when it is of an urgent matter. Lots of work to do and I will explore more in therapy.
W is wanting to spend time together more and opening up to me. I’m listening and validating but I’m not sure how to proceed, so far I have been unavailable to hang out (GAL, have plans, out with friends, working out doing family stuff and of course I was just away).
Should I agree to a low key no expectations date” with W?
I am being unavailable for other contact and not responding right away and not answering her calls except when it is of an urgent matter. Lots of work to do and I will explore more in therapy.
W is wanting to spend time together more and opening up to me. I’m listening and validating but I’m not sure how to proceed, so far I have been unavailable to hang out (GAL, have plans, out with friends, working out doing family stuff and of course I was just away).
Should I agree to a low key no expectations date” with W?
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 05:48 PM
If you keep the communication to email and texts than you can review what you say before you say it. Always stay on topic during the communication.
In what way does the W want to spend time together? As a friend or more? Where are you expectation for that?
In what way does the W want to spend time together? As a friend or more? Where are you expectation for that?
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Should I agree to a low key no expectations date” with W?
Keep focused on doing man things. You are enjoying your freedom. You are too busy to be dealing with a relationship with a woman right now. That is the mindset. Not her. Not someone new.
Not sure how much you cook, but check out Chef Jean-Pierre on youtube. I am going to try make the "Unbeatable Seafood cake" and "Steak au Poivre". He has a great video on cutting vegetables. I watch all 112 minutes last night.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 09:22 PM
I am working to have zero expectations of her at this point except with respect to my boundaries and how I am to be treated. I don’t know what capacity she wants to hang out as - she has asked me out to do some fun sounding things like bowling, hiking and ice skating - and also she wants to do some family things together - so far I have been busy or declined but I could consider accepting an invitation and see about enjoying some low key no pressure time together and have no further expectations.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 09:25 PM
R2C: that sounds good and ya maybe it’s too early.
Will check those videos out. I have been cooking a lot - making good salads and fish - grilled a lot but would like to expand my repertoire and skill set.
Will check those videos out. I have been cooking a lot - making good salads and fish - grilled a lot but would like to expand my repertoire and skill set.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 09:46 PM
I only ask in what way does she want to hang out because I’m wondering if she’s trying to be friends.
If you want to be friends, by all means go, have a good time. If you want more, than no, going is counter productive as this point.
It’s hard, but to way over simplify what you’re doing, people want what they can’t have, so make sure she can’t have you for right now.
If you want to be friends, by all means go, have a good time. If you want more, than no, going is counter productive as this point.
It’s hard, but to way over simplify what you’re doing, people want what they can’t have, so make sure she can’t have you for right now.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
grilled a lot but would like to expand my repertoire and skill set.
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 11:01 PM
Ok will ponder this. Thanks
Re: Action 4 - 12/06/22 11:13 PM
Rockon,
It's extremely difficult for a LBS to truly have no expectations on a date with their spouse - even if they think they don't. Read br4nd0n's post yesterday regarding his date and resulting expectations.
Ding, ding, ding! Especially if she's has AP in another country and she's lonely without him...you want to pull the rug out from under in that she's going to lose you, not keep her company until she's comfortable she can see him again.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Should I agree to a low key no expectations date” with W?
Originally Posted by Rockon
people want what they can’t have, so make sure she can’t have you for right now.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 07:04 AM
Interesting evening tonight. D put on an art show and it was wonderful! She was amazing. I took her early and then went back and got S after he was off work and he and I went together. D had quite a crowd of loved ones/fans attend. Members of my family were there. Several of Ds friends also came out and W and her mom came as well. I was reserved around W but not cold or unkind and I mingled with everyone and kept the focus on Ds night. S is still very much at odds with W and he kept a pretty wide berth from her. W interacted in a friendly fashion with Ds friends and my family and seemed to really enjoy the night. D made a point to engage with both W and I in a special way. Once the concert was over and I had a chance to hug D (she was going out with friends after), S and I made our exit to get on with our night. W called me later and I didn’t respond. I was ok with how I handled myself tonight. D just got home and came in to say good night and that she was happy, I told her I loved her show.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 12:58 PM
Good Morning Rock
Congratulations to daughter on the show. Sounds like it was a successful and enjoyable event. A special night for her.
You handled yourself very well.
Detachment is not having one’s emotions uncontrollably dragged around. Feels pretty good, doesn’t it?
D
Congratulations to daughter on the show. Sounds like it was a successful and enjoyable event. A special night for her.
You handled yourself very well.
Detachment is not having one’s emotions uncontrollably dragged around. Feels pretty good, doesn’t it?
D
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Interesting evening tonight. D put on an art show and it was wonderful! She was amazing. I took her early and then went back and got S after he was off work and he and I went together. D had quite a crowd of loved ones/fans attend. Members of my family were there. Several of Ds friends also came out and W and her mom came as well. I was reserved around W but not cold or unkind and I mingled with everyone and kept the focus on Ds night. S is still very much at odds with W and he kept a pretty wide berth from her. W interacted in a friendly fashion with Ds friends and my family and seemed to really enjoy the night. D made a point to engage with both W and I in a special way. Once the concert was over and I had a chance to hug D (she was going out with friends after), S and I made our exit to get on with our night. W called me later and I didn’t respond. I was ok with how I handled myself tonight. D just got home and came in to say good night and that she was happy, I told her I loved her show.
Rockon, you ay you were ok with how you handled yourself.
So can you give us one thing you are most of proud of related to that? And one that that you could have done better?
Also, if you were not you but you were a casual observer watching how you handled yourself, what would you tell yourself?
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 01:44 PM
Steve I like these questions.
One thing I was most proud of was that I was comfortable in my own skin and stayed within myself. I totally enjoyed the event, the social engagement and Ds time to shine. I kept it about her and I was an individual engaging well with community, family and friends in a social setting with W present and I behaved towards W in a way that was quite neutral and detached. I was not smothering or pursuing her and yet I was not unkind.
One thing I could have done better would have been to be less stressed before the event. When I picked up S to go, I was clearly giving off a stressed vibe. He told me, “You gotta chill man, I just got off work. I need to relax a bit and I want to enjoy the show.” I acknowledged he was totally right and that I had been tense. I apologized for the way I projected my stress on him. He accepted my apology. S has been going through a lot lately and is doing his best to manage himself in relation to W.
If I was a casual observer, I would have noticed a well dressed, attractive, friendly, confident, connected strong individual having a great time enjoying a social event and engaging socially.
I recall a moment that I and D had walked over to another part of the room apart from the main glob of family (my family members and W and her mom). I noticed that W was watching me chatting with a small group of people. I allowed myself to notice her and then pulled my focus back giving my attention to those I was interacting with.
One thing I was most proud of was that I was comfortable in my own skin and stayed within myself. I totally enjoyed the event, the social engagement and Ds time to shine. I kept it about her and I was an individual engaging well with community, family and friends in a social setting with W present and I behaved towards W in a way that was quite neutral and detached. I was not smothering or pursuing her and yet I was not unkind.
One thing I could have done better would have been to be less stressed before the event. When I picked up S to go, I was clearly giving off a stressed vibe. He told me, “You gotta chill man, I just got off work. I need to relax a bit and I want to enjoy the show.” I acknowledged he was totally right and that I had been tense. I apologized for the way I projected my stress on him. He accepted my apology. S has been going through a lot lately and is doing his best to manage himself in relation to W.
If I was a casual observer, I would have noticed a well dressed, attractive, friendly, confident, connected strong individual having a great time enjoying a social event and engaging socially.
I recall a moment that I and D had walked over to another part of the room apart from the main glob of family (my family members and W and her mom). I noticed that W was watching me chatting with a small group of people. I allowed myself to notice her and then pulled my focus back giving my attention to those I was interacting with.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 01:52 PM
I liked everything you just shared. Except that last paragraph. One other suggestion for things like this is to not give her ANY focus. You don't have ignore her or be cold, but noticing she was watching you will stand out to her. Believe it or not, that little moment told her, that no matter how well dressed, attractive, friendly, confident, connected strong of an individual you are, she still has your attention and can snap her fingers and have you right back. The vibe you want to give off is that you are moving forward with your life. She can either actively pursue following along, or she can get out of the way. That is her choice!
But I like the rest of the response! Good answers.
But I like the rest of the response! Good answers.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 03:29 PM
Hmm
Ok thanks for the feedback Steve
Ok thanks for the feedback Steve
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
W called me later and I didn’t respond. I was ok with how I handled myself tonight.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I noticed that W was watching me chatting with a small group of people. I allowed myself to notice her and then pulled my focus back giving my attention to those I was interacting with.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Hmm
Ok thanks for the feedback Steve
Ok thanks for the feedback Steve
Rockon, if she didn't notice you noticing her watching you, then that is ok. I misread this originally. If you don't think she noticed you noticing, then of course that will not tell her anything. But if she saw you seeing her watching you, that is what I meant. It tells her "I can get him back."
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
It tells her "I can get him back."
That's why GAL, act as if, and heading the other way work. You're establishing yourself as a person of value who is not going to jump through these hoops or tolerate this crap.
That's the attitude you need to assume, and if it’s not authentic act as if until its real.
Re: Action 4 - 12/07/22 10:38 PM
Quote
Interesting evening tonight. D put on an art show and it was wonderful! She was amazing. I took her early and then went back and got S after he was off work and he and I went together. D had quite a crowd of loved ones/fans attend. Members of my family were there. Several of Ds friends also came out and W and her mom came as well. I was reserved around W but not cold or unkind and I mingled with everyone and kept the focus on Ds night. S is still very much at odds with W and he kept a pretty wide berth from her. W interacted in a friendly fashion with Ds friends and my family and seemed to really enjoy the night. D made a point to engage with both W and I in a special way. Once the concert was over and I had a chance to hug D (she was going out with friends after), S and I made our exit to get on with our night. W called me later and I didn’t respond. I was ok with how I handled myself tonight. D just got home and came in to say good night and that she was happy, I told her I loved her show.
You did good, young grasshopper 😁
Not answering W’s call - excellent.
Well done.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 02:02 AM
Yeah I really don’t think she did notice me noticing her. I just happened to see she was watching and then I got back into focusing on the conversation at hand.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 02:09 AM
It really does feel great. I felt my emotions getting tugged at 48 hrs prior when I needed to talk with W about S’s stuff. She showed great interest in my out of country trip and called me terms of endearment and I ended up cutting it short “gotta go”. I got off the phone had a little cry to be honest and regrouped.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 02:17 AM
LH: I am fighting some instincts. She is throwing out lots of hints that I am resisting reading anything into. She is calling, video calling, texting at all hours and by the way she looked really hot last night. I am staying on track and focused. I’m not being unkind but I got places to be and things to do. MIL complimented me on my clothing and appearance in front of W last night and I said thanks, asked about MIL’s day and went over and talked to Ds boyfriend for a while.
I am noticing W’s overtures but resisting any interpretation or getting towed behind the boat.
I am noticing W’s overtures but resisting any interpretation or getting towed behind the boat.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
I am fighting some instincts. She is throwing out lots of hints that I am resisting reading anything into. She is calling, video calling, texting at all hours and by the way she looked really hot last night. I am staying on track and focused. I’m not being unkind but I got places to be and things to do. MIL complimented me on my clothing and appearance in front of W last night and I said thanks, asked about MIL’s day and went over and talked to Ds boyfriend for a while. I am noticing W’s overtures but resisting any interpretation or getting towed behind the boat.
And have fun doing it.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Will check those videos out. I have been cooking a lot - making good salads and fish - grilled a lot but would like to expand my repertoire and skill set.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by Rockon
LH: I am fighting some instincts. She is throwing out lots of hints that I am resisting reading anything into. She is calling, video calling, texting at all hours and by the way she looked really hot last night. I am staying on track and focused. I’m not being unkind but I got places to be and things to do. MIL complimented me on my clothing and appearance in front of W last night and I said thanks, asked about MIL’s day and went over and talked to Ds boyfriend for a while.
I am noticing W’s overtures but resisting any interpretation or getting towed behind the boat.
I am noticing W’s overtures but resisting any interpretation or getting towed behind the boat.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 04:13 PM
I was watching him on YouTube- inspiring. And mouthwatering.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 04:19 PM
Yes I am working on it. Not initiating, looking after me and my side of the street not asking about her not reaching out to MIL. Not answering her call. I even Changed the name on her contact on my phone to don’t call for awhile. A friend suggested I lock my phone in my safe for awhile - I didn’t do that.
If she texts without a question or something needing a response I don’t respond and if it does I try to employ the 24-48 hr rule. Work in progress
If she texts without a question or something needing a response I don’t respond and if it does I try to employ the 24-48 hr rule. Work in progress
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 04:31 PM
Rockon,
I changed my now Ex's contact info to "STBXW" in my phone during the divorce process, including a picture change. It now reads "ExW". Though now that the kids are getting a bit older I have started to think of what they will think if they see my phone w/that contact info. There are about 3 dozen texts from her in the last 6 months with only 1 response (critical/time-sensitive item).
Seems extreme. You do need your phone for other things after all. If you truly needed to lock it in a safe to avoid reaching out I'd say you need to work on your mental strength.
What is the current situation? Sounds like you're in a bit of limbo. Your W's still living with your inlaws? Sounds like she's reaching out a good bit. It's she making any mention of her next steps (whether that be R or D)?
Originally Posted by Rockon
I even Changed the name on her contact on my phone to don’t call for awhile.
Originally Posted by Rockon
A friend suggested I lock my phone in my safe for awhile - I didn’t do that.
Originally Posted by Rockon
If she texts without a question or something needing a response I don’t respond and if it does I try to employ the 24-48 hr rule. Work in progress
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 07:35 PM
Ya she lives with her mom - no mention from her about direction/next steps - tho she did bring up in a text that MIL wants her to start paying rent - wasn’t a question so I didn’t answer. Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together. I think I said maybe or interesting idea or something to consider. I’m trying to be measured and cautious and stay within myself protect myself home and family and stay intact. W has not brought up discernment couples therapy in over a month I think and neither have I.
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering. W had mentioned at BD that she
might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that. I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering. W had mentioned at BD that she
might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that. I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together. I think I said maybe or interesting idea or something to consider.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W has not brought up discernment couples therapy in over a month I think and neither have I.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W had mentioned at BD that she might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 08:11 PM
Rockon,
Refrain from asking. Keep giving her space and don't push for a direction/next steps.
Good job not responding, especially as her knight in shining armor. Rent is now her problem to deal with...not yours.
I'm confused on this one. IF the two of you moved back in together, why would you need to get a place together - wouldn't it be in your current house? Unless it's good financial move? Or, maybe she's trying to get you out of the house and live on her terms? I wouldn't leave the house if I were you, no matter what.
Good. Keep it up.
A as in affair? She likely had no clue what she was saying at the time and/or doesn't remember - I wouldn't bank on any suggestions or timelines she made on BD.
She probably should, but that's not your monkey or circus now as they say.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ya she lives with her mom - no mention from her about direction/next steps -
Originally Posted by Rockon
tho she did bring up in a text that MIL wants her to start paying rent - wasn’t a question so I didn’t answer.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering.
Originally Posted by Rockon
W had mentioned at BD that she might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Ya she lives with her mom - no mention from her about direction/next steps - tho she did bring up in a text that MIL wants her to start paying rent - wasn’t a question so I didn’t answer. Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together. I think I said maybe or interesting idea or something to consider. I’m trying to be measured and cautious and stay within myself protect myself home and family and stay intact. W has not brought up discernment couples therapy in over a month I think and neither have I.
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering. W had mentioned at BD that she
might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that. I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
I think I’m at the stage of giving her time and space and taking advantage of that for myself aiming for no pressure no pursuit no smothering. W had mentioned at BD that she
might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that. I think I should keep engaging in IC growth and healing and moving forward.
Keep up the great work, sir!
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by Rockon
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
BL:”I'm confused on this one. IF the two of you moved back in together, why would you need to get a place together - wouldn't it be in your current house? Unless it's good financial move? Or, maybe she's trying to get you out of the house and live on her terms? I wouldn't leave the house if I were you, no matter what.”
This has been a discussion in the past for financial considerations. More recently brainstorming about S’s housing needs after current program. Not my first choice. At one point this summer W said something along the lines of, “why do I have to be the one to move out or why can’t you move out of the bedroom?” Or proposing I take a turn living elsewhere. I had replied,”I don’t believe that’s the right thing for me to do.”
Originally Posted by Rockon
W had mentioned at BD that she might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that.
BL: “A as in affair? She likely had no clue what she was saying at the time and/or doesn't remember - I wouldn't bank on any suggestions or timelines she made on BD.”
Good point and yes A is in ……
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
BL:”I'm confused on this one. IF the two of you moved back in together, why would you need to get a place together - wouldn't it be in your current house? Unless it's good financial move? Or, maybe she's trying to get you out of the house and live on her terms? I wouldn't leave the house if I were you, no matter what.”
This has been a discussion in the past for financial considerations. More recently brainstorming about S’s housing needs after current program. Not my first choice. At one point this summer W said something along the lines of, “why do I have to be the one to move out or why can’t you move out of the bedroom?” Or proposing I take a turn living elsewhere. I had replied,”I don’t believe that’s the right thing for me to do.”
Originally Posted by Rockon
W had mentioned at BD that she might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that.
BL: “A as in affair? She likely had no clue what she was saying at the time and/or doesn't remember - I wouldn't bank on any suggestions or timelines she made on BD.”
Good point and yes A is in ……
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 09:22 PM
Rockon,
Personally I would not move out under any circumstances at this point. And before you make ANY moves you make absolutely certain that A) it's what YOU want, and B) she's rock solid on wanting to R.
Right now you have the presumption of living in the house - doesn't mean W wouldn't get her share of the equity if it comes to D - but she is the one that moved out and it's likely you could argue you have the right to keep it if you want. Or if nothing else a judge would probably rule to keep the status quo until things are resolved. In other words, you have the upper hand right now in this area so don't cede it on a whim based on her suggestion or hope it'll make her happy and want to R.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Originally Posted by Rockon
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
BL:”I'm confused on this one. IF the two of you moved back in together, why would you need to get a place together - wouldn't it be in your current house? Unless it's good financial move? Or, maybe she's trying to get you out of the house and live on her terms? I wouldn't leave the house if I were you, no matter what.”
This has been a discussion in the past for financial considerations. More recently brainstorming about S’s housing needs after current program. Not my first choice. At one point this summer W said something along the lines of, “why do I have to be the one to move out or why can’t you move out of the bedroom?” Or proposing I take a turn living elsewhere. I had replied,”I don’t believe that’s the right thing for me to do.”
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
BL:”I'm confused on this one. IF the two of you moved back in together, why would you need to get a place together - wouldn't it be in your current house? Unless it's good financial move? Or, maybe she's trying to get you out of the house and live on her terms? I wouldn't leave the house if I were you, no matter what.”
This has been a discussion in the past for financial considerations. More recently brainstorming about S’s housing needs after current program. Not my first choice. At one point this summer W said something along the lines of, “why do I have to be the one to move out or why can’t you move out of the bedroom?” Or proposing I take a turn living elsewhere. I had replied,”I don’t believe that’s the right thing for me to do.”
Right now you have the presumption of living in the house - doesn't mean W wouldn't get her share of the equity if it comes to D - but she is the one that moved out and it's likely you could argue you have the right to keep it if you want. Or if nothing else a judge would probably rule to keep the status quo until things are resolved. In other words, you have the upper hand right now in this area so don't cede it on a whim based on her suggestion or hope it'll make her happy and want to R.
Re: Action 4 - 12/08/22 10:24 PM
Quote
Actually she has mentioned the idea of us renting out our house and she and I getting a place together.
Suggested response: “I’m only interested in living with someone who is 100% committed. Until I’m sure, I’m not changing the current arrangement.”
Quote
W had mentioned at BD that she might be ready to talk about A in January. I really don’t know what that meant or if she’s still thinking that.
Suggested response: “I have more self worth than that. I’m not listening to details of your affair. The only discussion I’ll entertain is if you’ve ended it and you want me to give you an opportunity to repair the marriage.”
You are the prize here. WOMEN CAN NOT BE WITH A MAN THEY DO NOT RESPECT.
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 02:07 AM
BL and Kind I really appreciate these responses. So tonight W said she thinks she wants to have our bed over at her moms - the bed there is really back for her back. I validated what she said and told her I need to think about it (I don’t want to give up our bed and for it to be in another place). She didn’t like that and said it’s not your decision to make and it’s my bed too. I replied it’s our bed; I need to give that some thought. She said we are going to have to split up everything. I didn’t answer that.
She also proposed that I move into the suite with S once S completes his treatment program and that W move into the main part of our house with D to save money - I also don’t like this idea and told her so. I don’t believe that it’s right for me to move out of our home and bedroom.
I empathize with her sore back and having a bad bed. I told her I’m hearing that it’s difficult and also that I appreciate her bringing forward ideas.
She also proposed that I move into the suite with S once S completes his treatment program and that W move into the main part of our house with D to save money - I also don’t like this idea and told her so. I don’t believe that it’s right for me to move out of our home and bedroom.
I empathize with her sore back and having a bad bed. I told her I’m hearing that it’s difficult and also that I appreciate her bringing forward ideas.
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 02:24 AM
Ugh.
W: I want my bed my poor back hurts.
R: That doesn’t work for me
W: we are going to split up everything anyway
R: Crickets
W: I’m going to move into main house and you move to suite
R: that doesn’t work for me
No empathizing her sore back or hearing her
Have you spoken to a lawyer?
W: I want my bed my poor back hurts.
R: That doesn’t work for me
W: we are going to split up everything anyway
R: Crickets
W: I’m going to move into main house and you move to suite
R: that doesn’t work for me
No empathizing her sore back or hearing her
Have you spoken to a lawyer?
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 02:26 AM
Rockon,
She said? This doesn't sound like an email...why were you talking in the first place? We've recommended you limit engagement and limit conversation, right?
"No" is an acceptable answer. You don't need to validate or think it over. Step up and be strong and firm. She's talking about your bed. The bed she left to go move into her mother's house and go abroad to meet up with AP, right?
No answer is ok. I'd also accept "Ok, email me a list of what you think is fair and I'll review"...with a smile on your face.
"No." Remember that one-word answer? Be strong. You may not have the right to legally keep her out of the house, but you can stand firm that you're not leaving your room or bed. Let her have the guts to move back in.
You empathize with her sore back?!? Rockon...I hate to sound too harsh here so I'm going to avoid the comment I'd make otherwise but please, please, please man up and take back your power. She moved out of the house. She cheated on you. Do not spend a minute of your life worrying about how she's dealing with her back in a different bed.
Originally Posted by Rockon
So tonight W said she thinks she wants to have our bed over at her moms - the bed there is really back for her back.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I validated what she said and told her I need to think about it (I don’t want to give up our bed and for it to be in another place). She didn’t like that and said it’s not your decision to make and it’s my bed too. I replied it’s our bed; I need to give that some thought.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She said we are going to have to split up everything. I didn’t answer that.
Originally Posted by Rockon
She also proposed that I move into the suite with S once S completes his treatment program and that W move into the main part of our house with D to save money - I also don’t like this idea and stole her so. I don’t believe that it’s right for me to move out of our home and bedroom.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I empathize with her sore back and having a bad bed. I told her I’m hearing that it’s difficult and also that I appreciate her bringing forward ideas.
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 02:50 AM
Yes I have spoken to a lawyer it was informative.
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 03:09 AM
Rockon,
This thread is over 100 posts so the mods are going to want you to start a new one...
I'd love for your focus in the new thread to be you getting indignant over what she's done, growing a backbone and standing up for yourself, reclaiming your power and strength, flipping the narrative to be whether or not you are going to give her a chance to win you back.
Remember the best chance you have to save the marriage is you truly being at peace with it being over and completely moving forward without her. Don't slowly ease her transition into her new life; pull the rug out from under her. She needs to feel like you've moved on and she may have lost you for good.
Have you taken that wreath she gave you down off the door yet and tossed it in the garbage? To be clear, that is not a rhetorical question.
This thread is over 100 posts so the mods are going to want you to start a new one...
I'd love for your focus in the new thread to be you getting indignant over what she's done, growing a backbone and standing up for yourself, reclaiming your power and strength, flipping the narrative to be whether or not you are going to give her a chance to win you back.
Remember the best chance you have to save the marriage is you truly being at peace with it being over and completely moving forward without her. Don't slowly ease her transition into her new life; pull the rug out from under her. She needs to feel like you've moved on and she may have lost you for good.
Have you taken that wreath she gave you down off the door yet and tossed it in the garbage? To be clear, that is not a rhetorical question.
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 03:23 AM
Hello Rock
Yes, “no” is an acceptable answer. No need to give her the bed. What is she expecting for you. To sleep on the couch? What about your back?
Noticed how she got upset/angry as soon as you paused, kind of said no, did not go along with her fantasy narrative of how this should all go down? No matter what, if you gave her the bed and the kitchen sink, she’d find something to be upset “at you” about. Of course, it’s not really about you. Is it? She’s mad with her consequences and blaming you. Hold her accountable for her actions.
And yes, please start a new thread. (Thanks BL
)
D
Yes, “no” is an acceptable answer. No need to give her the bed. What is she expecting for you. To sleep on the couch? What about your back?
Noticed how she got upset/angry as soon as you paused, kind of said no, did not go along with her fantasy narrative of how this should all go down? No matter what, if you gave her the bed and the kitchen sink, she’d find something to be upset “at you” about. Of course, it’s not really about you. Is it? She’s mad with her consequences and blaming you. Hold her accountable for her actions.
And yes, please start a new thread. (Thanks BL
)D
Re: Action 4 - 12/09/22 05:27 AM