Hi Everyone,
I am new here and looking for support. I have just ordered Divorce Remedy and want to be well in this extremely challenging time and hope to not do harm.
My wife (we have been married more than 25 years and been through a lot -lots of family pain as well as lots of joy) blindsided me this summer with not wanting to be married anymore and moved out. I understand she has been (might still be) in an affair of some sorts but she has told me that she is not ready to talk about it. I have stopped bringing it up and have been working at giving her lots of time and space.
We have adult children (our youngest is in college and lives with me) and grandchildren. Our kids are really struggling with my Wayward Wife’s (WW) abrupt change in behaviour, attitude and treatment of me. And I am really going through the pain as of late - trying not to suppress or run from my emotions and needs.
I am receiving treatment for workplace mental/psychological injury (ptsd) presently and seeing a lot of benefit and healing personally but the emotional pain I have with the disconnect, betrayal, disrespect and abandonment from my wife is extremely heavy and the lack of clarity and honesty from her is excruciating given the ptsd.
Thanks for reading - looking forward to learning from and with you.
Rockon,
Welcome. Sorry to hear about your situation, but glad you're here. This forum has many people who have gone through similar stories and want to help.
My wife (we have been married more than 25 years and been through a lot -lots of family pain as well as lots of joy) blindsided me this summer with not wanting to be married anymore and moved out.
25 years is a long time. It must be extremely difficult. I'm sure it feels like you were blindsided, but looking back on the last few months or years are you able to see any signs of when or how things changed? What problems were you having in your marriage?
I understand she has been (might still be) in an affair of some sorts but she has told me that she is not ready to talk about it.
An affair is very common in situations here. Do you suspect a particular person? Often times your gut is right.
I have stopped bringing it up and have been working at giving her lots of time and space.
That's good. It's very hard for newcomers to do this but it's best not to pursue, pressure, and smoother them. Starting moving away from her in the other direction.
And I am really going through the pain as of late - trying not to suppress or run from my emotions and needs.
Understandable you're going through pain. Good you're not suppressing it. You need to feel and let it out to process. Just make sure you're expressing it to a friend or counselor and not your W.
[quote=Rockon]I am receiving treatment for workplace mental/psychological injury (ptsd) presently and seeing a lot of benefit and healing personally
This treatment is for something that happened at work, or it's a counselor through a work assistance program to help with the marital situation?
but the emotional pain I have with the disconnect, betrayal, disrespect and abandonment from my wife is extremely heavy and the lack of clarity and honesty from her is excruciating given the ptsd.
This is one of the most difficult situations a person can deal with in life. But you WILL get through it. Trust me. Hang in there.
Rockon,
Welcome. Sorry to hear about your situation, but glad you're here. This forum has many people who have gone through similar stories and want to help.
Thank you for welcoming me here.
My wife (we have been married more than 25 years and been through a lot -lots of family pain as well as lots of joy) blindsided me this summer with not wanting to be married anymore and moved out.
25 years is a long time. It must be extremely difficult. I'm sure it feels like you were blindsided, but looking back on the last few months or years are you able to see any signs of when or how things changed? What problems were you having in your marriage?
Extremely difficult, confusing, frustrating and painful. And yes I have reflected and it was no secret that we were suffering as a family and in our marriage. I have taken responsibility for the ways that I contributed to the breakdown of our marriage. The collective trauma that we suffered together in our family and the impact of my workplace injury really took a massive toll.
I understand she has been (might still be) in an affair of some sorts but she has told me that she is not ready to talk about it.
An affair is very common in situations here. Do you suspect a particular person? Often times your gut is right.
I do suspect a person who is long distance but I am worried that W has made plans or is considering travelling to be with him.
I have stopped bringing it up and have been working at giving her lots of time and space.
That's good. It's very hard for newcomers to do this but it's best not to pursue, pressure, and smoother them. Starting moving away from her in the other direction.
I am trying but we have a lot of ongoing connections - family etc.
And I am really going through the pain as of late - trying not to suppress or run from my emotions and needs.
Understandable you're going through pain. Good you're not suppressing it. You need to feel and let it out to process. Just make sure you're expressing it to a friend or counselor and not your W.
Yes I am expressing it to C - both W and I have IC and we have discussed possible MC - she recently texted me a particular MC she would be open to - I replied favourably then she got scared - told me she is worried that us going to MC would catapult us to a final decision on our marriage. I am not expressing the pain to her.
She told me a while ago that she noticed that I have been thriving without her - did I mention that she has moved out - and she told me that she has also told her friends that I am thriving without her. Truth is I am also suffering tremendously but I am accessing support network of faithful solid friends, exercising, working with my treatment team etc. She has shared recently that she is not doing well - very stressed, lost friends, her living situation is stressful, etc.I responded that I can appreciate his difficult it is and that I care.
[quote=Rockon]I am receiving treatment for workplace mental/psychological injury (ptsd) presently and seeing a lot of benefit and healing personally
This treatment is for something that happened at work, or it's a counselor through a work assistance program to help with the marital situation?
Yes arising from traumatic injury sustained in my work. I compartmentalized in treatment at first but then I came to the point of f* it I need to get this all of my chest and talk about it all and gain some integrated support.
but the emotional pain I have with the disconnect, betrayal, disrespect and abandonment from my wife is extremely heavy and the lack of clarity and honesty from her is excruciating given the ptsd.
This is one of the most difficult situations a person can deal with in life. But you WILL get through it. Trust me. Hang in there.
Thank you
Ok this quoting and replying is a bit cumbersome and unfamiliar to me I left this part out:
Yes I am expressing it to C - both W and I have IC and we have discussed possible MC - she recently texted me a particular MC she would be open to - I replied favourably then she got scared - told me she is worried that us going to MC would catapult us to a final decision on our marriage. I am not expressing the pain to her.
She told me a while ago that she noticed that I have been thriving without her - did I mention that she has moved out - and she told me that she has also told her friends that I am thriving without her. Truth is I am also suffering tremendously but I am accessing support network of faithful solid friends, exercising, working with my treatment team etc. She has shared recently that she is not doing well - very stressed, lost friends, her living situation is stressful, etc.I responded that I can appreciate his difficult it is and that I care
Rockon,
One of the best things you can do is to get active. I know it's hard if you're depressed and just want to lay on the couch and not move - I totally get it - but the faster you can get up and out the better. I remember going on walks with my dad at lunchtime and even crying during some but the exercise helped. If you're not doing anything now, make the energy to do something. Anything. Get your college kid to go on a walk with you daily. Go jogging yourself. Join a fitness class or a weightlifting gym....whatever it is, muster up the energy to get active. Your body will make endorphins which will turn your downward spiral into an upward climb. You'll feel better, look better, and be more confident. I completely understand how you might not feel like you have the energy for it, but the faster you get active the quicker you'll be on a path to be good again.
Yes I have begun this and on Friday I am starting a 12 week fitness program as well.
Rockon,
Yes I am expressing it to C - both W and I have IC and we have discussed possible MC - she recently texted me a particular MC she would be open to - I replied favourably then she got scared - told me she is worried that us going to MC would catapult us to a final decision on our marriage. I am not expressing the pain to her.
Most here would tell you NOT to do MC unless she's really dedicated to saving the marriage. Sounds like her "worry about MC as a catapult to a final marriage decision" is a tell...MC is often used by the person leaving as a way to break the "divorce" news more easily, or as an excuse to their friends and family "well...we even tried MC and it didn't help!". Spend the time instead in IC and working on yourself.
She told me a while ago that she noticed that I have been thriving without her - did I mention that she has moved out - and she told me that she has also told her friends that I am thriving without her.
Good! What's more attractive? What's more likely to make her question her decision? A guy that she perceives is handling the news in stride and going out and dominating life, or a guy who is completely devastated and wallowing at home). Much better she sees you thriving than takes solace in you suffering.
Truth is I am also suffering tremendously
Completely understandable.
Yes I have begun this and on Friday I am starting a 12 week fitness program as well.
Excellent! Wait to see how great you feel afterwards.
but I am accessing support network of faithful solid friends, exercising, working with my treatment team etc.
Perfect! Lean on the support network, work out, and do counseling. Keep it up.
She has shared recently that she is not doing well - very stressed, lost friends, her living situation is stressful, etc. I responded that I can appreciate his difficult it is and that I care
Too bad, so sad for her. She's having an affair and left her husband of 25 years. She needs to experience the consequences of that. Good answer btw...don't use it as an opportunity to beg or plead for her back. Validate. "That does sound difficult", "I can understand why that would be stressful"...etc.
Rockon - Sounds like you're doing relatively well actually. Support network, exercise, IC, validation...etc. Make sure you flip things up, reclaim your power, and act "as if"...YOU are the prize and she's crazy to leave you. Start moving in the other direction and start living your life as if you love it. That's the best way to start your healing and get on a good path for yourself. She'll be lucky if you even allow her to jump back onboard.
Thank you so much for the encouragement. I will write more when I have energy. I get tired in the evenings.
Rockon,
I'm sorry about what brought you here. But this is the right place to come to for support. I'm not in favor of MC unless and until she is dedicated to saving the marriage. Best just to IC and focus on yourself. You should also consider melatonin to help you to sleep, or better yet something based on your doctor's advice. I think everyone finds it very hard to sleep at first. Keep posting.
Spiral
Hey Rock,
First off, I'm gonna attach this to your thread. Cadet typically posts this even though it is stickied at the top of the Forum.
Secondly, Man, you probably feel like you are gonna die right now. Except that you aren't...
There is nothing about this that won't turn you inside out at every turn.
And you can believe this or not, there is life through this, and life out the other side. Everything you are going through at this time is temporary, and it WILL change. Sometimes for the better, often times for the worse over the next couple years. However, there will be a day when you are thankful for what you are getting ready to go through.
I'm not typically a fluffy bunny , unicorns and rainbows kind of guy....
I would rather teach you to fish , rather than give you a fish....
A couple questions to start....
Do you love her ???
Seldom do I read the first few posts and not read that they love their WAS....
I would assume that you do, or you wouldn't be posting here.
What does loving her mean to you, as you read this today ???
Are you able to forgive her if she changes her mind and decides to try again ??
Are you able to walk through hell with gasoline shorts on, IF there was a very small chance that you could have another shot ???
Do you have that inside of you ???
To burn every ounce of fuel , to have zero regrets for your future ???
Look Rock....
The marriage that you had is over and done...
Anything for the future will have to be an entirely new relationship..
And there is a chance, that it CAN be with your current spouse....
Nothing you do or say can change this...
However everything that you can say or do can change this...
That might make sense at some point, just possibly not today...
BL is right, you need to get back to you. Find that guy that she fell in love with all those years ago, when she looked deep into your eyes at Chuck-E-Cheese....
Stop talking and more doing....
You aren't going to talk your way out of something that you acted your way into....
For now, find your balance in this....
Own your side of the street, and work on the things that you want to fix within yourself.
We all have played a part in the demise of our marriages. Figure out what they are, and dig deep to kill those behaviors....
This is the best, worst place to be....and we are all in this together.....alone
There isn't a lot of activity around here anymore, so maybe dig through the archives, and just read. Although you need to read some other things too. this will consume you if you allow that to happen...
Just make sure that you don't let the worst thing that has happened to you....define you and who you are at your core....
Keep posting, tell us a bit more about you....
Rocky I am very sorry you are here. Mach1 gave a great first post so I will make a few comments below:
I replied favourably then she got scared - told me she is worried that us going to MC would catapult us to a final decision on our marriage.
Yeah for now you want to stay out of MC especially if MC is pro divorce. I was ecstatic when my ex agreed to MC only to find out she used it as an excuse "we tried MC and that didn't work".
She told me a while ago that she noticed that I have been thriving without her - did I mention that she has moved out - and she told me that she has also told her friends that I am thriving without her.
This is a trick to see where you are. You don't want her to know where you are. Things will not change until she sees you no longer need her.
Truth is I am also suffering tremendously but I am accessing support network of faithful solid friends, exercising, working with my treatment team etc.
For years you've lived by a certain set of rules -- that if you're a good husband, you can count on your wife supporting you.
Because you're married, your relationship is a source of stability in your life.
etc. etc.
When that's suddenly ripped away and you can't understand (a) what you did to make it fall apart so suddenly, (b) why the person who used to be your partner seems to have had a complete personality change and (c) why you can't seem to do anything to make it better, it is totally destabilizing.
Your brain doesn't like this instability, and it doesn't like the unavailability of a remedy at all! Its panic-inducing.
Because of this lack of control and the fear that comes with it, you desperately, desperately want to regain your feeling of control and stability.
Your brain convinces you that the quickest way to do that is to get your wayward spouse back. If you can do that, then all the old rules still apply and there was just a temporary blip on the radar.
As a result, your brain will *compel* you to want to pursue, and everything else is a justification to allow you to do what you want.
Step back and look at some of these situations -- a person's wife cheats on them for years with several OM's. If that comes to light, a rational person would say "this woman has issues" and head the other way right? But in reality, we see time and again that the LBS convinces themselves that this cheater is the best person in the world, and they want to have them back more than anything.
WHY? Because the loss of control is devastating. The loss of control is something our brains can't process or tolerate.
If you see this in yourself, that you have lost your feeling of control, then you can come to the conclusion that this is what you need to deal with, not what your wife does or doesn't do.
What can restore that sense of control?
1) Set goals for yourself and hit them. (Get in shape, do an improvement project around the house, learn to play an instrument)
2) Interact with others. Volunteer, join a club, a little positive validation from other humans will do wonders
3) Talk to a therapist or a DB coach. You have a lot of feelings to work through, keep walking the road.
Do you love her ???
Seldom do I read the first few posts and not read that they love their WAS....
I would assume that you do, or you wouldn't be posting here.
What does loving her mean to you, as you read this today ???
Are you able to forgive her if she changes her mind and decides to try again ??
Are you able to walk through hell with gasoline shorts on, IF there was a very small chance that you could have another shot ???
Do you have that inside of you ???
Yes I love her fiercely and I have done my best to live that out in our marriage. I knew that I wasn’t and am not perfect and that I made a lot of mistakes that disappointed and hurt her. I recognize ways that I have contributed to the breakdown of our marriage.
Yes I am prepared to forgive her if she turns around stops cheating and wants to work on our marriage. I want to heal our marriage and build a brand new thriving relationship.
Rockon,
Yes I love her fiercely and I have done my best to live that out in our marriage. I knew that I wasn’t and am not perfect and that I made a lot of mistakes that disappointed and hurt her. I recognize ways that I have contributed to the breakdown of our marriage.
Yes I am prepared to forgive her if she turns around stops cheating and wants to work on our marriage. I want to heal our marriage and build a brand new thriving relationship.
In what ways did you contribute to the breakdown of the marriage? Are you working on those 180s?
Can you give us more background on the two of you...ages, how did you meet, previous relationships, issue in marriage, prior infidelity...etc?
Rockon,
Yes I love her fiercely and I have done my best to live that out in our marriage. I knew that I wasn’t and am not perfect and that I made a lot of mistakes that disappointed and hurt her. I recognize ways that I have contributed to the breakdown of our marriage.
Yes I am prepared to forgive her if she turns around stops cheating and wants to work on our marriage. I want to heal our marriage and build a brand new thriving relationship.
In what ways did you contribute to the breakdown of the marriage? Are you working on those 180s?
Yes working on 180’s:
-committing to my health as priority
-taking care of our home inside and out (full tidy, organize, reset each day including making bed) organizing all the clutter, renovating, painting, gardening, making the outside of the house and entrance inviting and welcoming, promoting peace, joy and love in our home, entertaining friends (backyard fire)
Ok going out to shoot hoops with my son - will get back to this
Can you give us more background on the two of you...ages, how did you meet, previous relationships, issue in marriage, prior infidelity...etc?
Yes I love her fiercely and I have done my best to live that out in our marriage. I knew that I wasn’t and am not perfect and that I made a lot of mistakes that disappointed and hurt her. I recognize ways that I have contributed to the breakdown of our marriage.
Yes I am prepared to forgive her if she turns around stops cheating and wants to work on our marriage. I want to heal our marriage and build a brand new thriving relationship.
In what ways did you contribute to the breakdown of the marriage? Are you working on those 180s?
Contributions to breakdown:
-not giving her the attention romance and excitement she craved at times for sure
-she felt that I placed too much focus and attention on our kids and their needs at the expense of her
-contributing to chaos and disorder with falling behind renovating our house and being disorganized
-my traumatic injury ( with depression and anxiety) impacting on my wife and our intimacy
-our collective emotional wounds and pain from familial trauma
-me not standing up to her when she mistreated me verbally and with disrespect at times.
Continuing on 180s:
-looking after myself focusing on me
-standing up to her calmly and assertively
-not attending to my physical appearance at times
-I got disconnected from work, friends, hobbies
-not talking about me or overly focusing on our kids when we are in conversation but showing care and interest in her life and perspective when she opens up to me especially about hurts and contributions
-lots of validation
-engaging in my treatment and following up,with my dr for preventative tests and measures
-getting help from friends with house Reno skills - I’m still doing a lot of the work and learning
-being responsible financially for myself
-looking and dressing well, GAL, being happy and having friends
Can you give us more background on the two of you...ages, how did you meet, previous relationships, issue in marriage, prior infidelity...etc?[/quote]
- we are in our 50s, met at church, we had some relationships prior but no living together, no prior infidelity that I’m aware of
Hi Rockon,
Sounds like you are a man of faith. Everything is a learning experience. Do not have false hope. Do not have false despair. Have faith in the process. Embrace your new reality. Process everything. Challenge your beliefs on everything.
Divorce Remedy and this support forum was my foundation for my personal growth. Best worst thing that ever happened to me. Make positive changes to your behavior and the way you interact with people, especially your wife. This has the best probability of success. This definition of success changes as you move through the process. When you come out the other side, you will be grateful for going through it.
Read as many of the posts in all the threads linked here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2923056I was reading 2-3 books a week at the beginning. There is always some way to improve ourselves and the way we interact with others. Enjoy interacting with everyone.
One mistake many make is letting their spouse back too easy. As you read through everything, come up with your private(ie don't tell W what it will take, rather she will have to tell you) list of unconditionals. I am sure I quoted some from others.
Keep posting and we will all give our 2cents. Ultimately you will have conflicting advise and have do decided what makes the best sense for you.
One mistake many make is letting their spouse back too easy. As you read through everything, come up with your private(ie don't tell W what it will take, rather she will have to tell you) list of unconditionals.
Can you explain a little more what you mean about keeping my list of conditionals for W private, not telling her and her having to tell me?
I’d like to understand these concepts a bit more.
Rockon, you're already getting lots of good feedback and advice. I love your screen name! Also, thriving without her is exactly how you'll get her back, of that ends up being what you want. Its counter intuitive, but that's DBing!
GAL like a madman. Keep up the self-improvements. Work on detachment. Leave her alone, don't be the one to initiate contact, and be busy at least half of the time that she does!
You've got this!
W was just here for dinner. Just she and I and it was quite nice. I stayed within myself was warm and friendly and upbeat. I looked good, felt good and the house was kind of sparkling - she commented so. She had texted me after work and asked if I had dinner. I said that it was almost ready.So she came over. She was a bit stressed (her work is hard) but she relaxed, smiled and laughed a bit. Now she has left but I’m ok.
Rockon, a caution I have with making the home spotless and cooking dinner is it could be and look more TryHard than Detached. The more doing the housework is your fair share (50%) rather than most (to impress) or less (out of spite) the better. The more you're sharing dinner because you have extra after feeding you and your son vs. making her a meal the better.
The above assumes you work as many hours outside the home as her. If she's earning the money and you're staying home to do domestic duties, that's different. Then by all means make a home that sparks joy!
The WAS should see through your GAL you are a desirable partner with interest and options--not a backup plan she can return to anytime if OM1, OM2, OM3, etc. don't work out. May you join the ranks of those who save their marriages here.
Digging into the homework - thank you for the list and suggestions. DR book arrives today so expect I will have questions for all y’all, lots to process and apply and learn from.
Rockon,
Actually sounds to me like you're doing all the right things. I'm hearing you making yourself more attractive (exercise, dressing well), engaging in IC, getting out with your son and friends, doing projects around the house, not chasing/pressuring...etc.
The hardest part for newcomers is usually letting go / detaching, keeping calm/collected/strong, and not pursuing with pressure and relationship talks. From what you're saying it sounds like you're doing just that - key is to give her space / let her miss you and improve yourself in the meantime.
W was just here for dinner. Just she and I and it was quite nice. I stayed within myself was warm and friendly and upbeat. I looked good, felt good and the house was kind of sparkling - she commented so. She had texted me after work and asked if I had dinner. I said that it was almost ready.So she came over. She was a bit stressed (her work is hard) but she relaxed, smiled and laughed a bit. Now she has left but I’m ok.
I'm confused about this - thought she moved out? Where is she currently living? Does she come over for dinner? Depending on the situation - and especially if she's involved with another man - you may not to make yourself less available and not cook her dinner. Be out to dinner with a friend, or playing in a volleyball league, or taking a cooking class. Curious what others think here.
Good points Traveller and I am trying to sort out what is a healthy 180 vs “tryhard” while working on detachment.
I believe that consistent focus and follow through on what is important to me is really helpful in reaching my goals rather than panicky trying hard.
In the case of looking after our home cooking and cleaning etc, I am doing this because it’s important to me for what I need and what I want my home and lifestyle to be. W is working full time and has moved out. I am in full time treatment for ptsd incurred in the line of duty. Having said that, my wages/income are intact and I earn almost double what W does.
Last night, I was preparing dinner for myself when W texted and asked if I had dinner. I said I was just making it and she was welcome to join. Trying to figure it all out!
She has moved out and I am working on detaching and GAL. Last night she reached out and I had dinner that I was making for myself and was open to sharing with her.
She arrived tense and stressed. I tried to remain calm and normal but not pursuing or pressuring she seemed to relax and enjoy herself a bit. Then later after she had gone to her place we talked on the phone and she was highly stressed again. She expressed distress and the confusion of our relationship and how hard that is for her. I
Listened validated and kept myself reserved even though those elements are tortuous for me.
Good points Traveller and I am trying to sort out what is a healthy 180 vs “tryhard” while working on detachment. In the case of looking after our home.. I am doing this because it’s important to me for what I need and what I want my home and lifestyle to be.
Sometimes it can be challenging to tell if a 180 is for her or for you. When you're not sure, consider these: (1) Is this a 180 one you'll want to keep when you return to 8-hour shifts at work? A decluttering expert I follow isn't willing to spend more than 5-15min/day picking up her home (dishes/laundry are separate). You don't want to live in a waste dump, but you also don't want to miss out on hiking, games, pubs with friends, etc. The smallest consistent change is the most potent. Many LBS temporarily become a MollyMaid after BD and that's something WAS will be skeptical about long-term. (2) Do you have a desire to show-off the 180 or any expectations around her reaction? Hidden expectations and the ensuing resentment is a killer.
Rockon,
She has moved out and I am working on detaching and GAL.
Where did she move to? Did she rent an apartment, at a relative's place, or is it possible she's staying with OM?
Last night she reached out and I had dinner that I was making for myself and was open to sharing with her.
This sounds alright - she reached out, and you accepted - but make sure not to be too available. You don't want to be bending over backwards to meet up whenever she can. Get busy GAL'ing and make plans and don't always answer her calls on a dime or be there for her whenever she asks.
She arrived tense and stressed. I tried to remain calm and normal but not pursuing or pressuring she seemed to relax and enjoy herself a bit. Then later after she had gone to her place we talked on the phone and she was highly stressed again. She expressed distress and the confusion of our relationship and how hard that is for her. I
Listened validated and kept myself reserved even though those elements are tortuous for me.
Sounds like you did well in the interactions - keeping your composure, listening, and validating.
I believe that consistent focus and follow through on what is important to me is really helpful in reaching my goals rather than panicky trying hard.
In the case of looking after our home cooking and cleaning etc, I am doing this because it’s important to me for what I need and what I want my home and lifestyle to be.
This is so true. You HAVE to do it for YOU, and NOT HER. If you do it for a month just to win her back not only will she see right through it but you'll stop and regress when it doesn't work. It's so crucial to commit to the 180s for the LONG TERM and for YOU. That goes for the house work, exercise, IC...all your areas of self-improvement.
Rockon, just a bit of a 2x4. Your post about wife coming to dinner really smacks of friend zoned behavior. Remember, if your goal is to be her husband again , being her friend isn't the way back there. Next time she texts you should be busy. "I have plans." Leave it at that. There is a saying the vets here used to say: you'll never look more attractive to her as you will when you're walking away.
I can vouch for this. When I was being super husband, hanging on to every thing she did and said, and trying so hard to win her approval, my WW had no desire to stay in the marriage. When I started to embrace that are was leaving, started to plan for it, and even look forward to it, suddenly she started questioning her decision.
RockOn, do you know what your rules of engagement should be?
Sometimes it can be challenging to tell if a 180 is for her or for you. When you're not sure, consider these: (1) Is this a 180 one you'll want to keep when you return to 8-hour shifts at work?
that is a helpful viewpoint I agree.
A decluttering expert I follow isn't willing to spend more than 5-15min/day picking up her home (dishes/laundry are separate). You don't want to live in a waste dump, but you also don't want to miss out on hiking, games, pubs with friends, etc.
exactly!!
The smallest consistent change is the most potent. Many LBS temporarily become a MollyMaid after BD and that's something WAS will be skeptical about long-term. (2) Do you have a desire to show-off the 180 or any expectations around her reaction? Hidden expectations and the ensuing resentment is a killer.[/quote]
hmmm ok will give this more thought
SteveLW :
I’d like to understand what you mean by rules of engagement.
And yes I see the value in getting a life being busy and not necessarily available whenever she wants.
Rockon,
She has moved out and I am working on detaching and GAL.
Where did she move to? Did she rent an apartment, at a relative's place, or is it possible she's staying with OM?
she is staying with a relative though I understand that she may travel overseas to be with OM.
Last night she reached out and I had dinner that I was making for myself and was open to sharing with her.
This sounds alright - she reached out, and you accepted - but make sure not to be too available. You don't want to be bending over backwards to meet up whenever she can. Get busy GAL'ing and make plans and don't always answer her calls on a dime or be there for her whenever she asks.
yes working on that.
She arrived tense and stressed. I tried to remain calm and normal but not pursuing or pressuring she seemed to relax and enjoy herself a bit. Then later after she had gone to her place we talked on the phone and she was highly stressed again. She expressed distress and the confusion of our relationship and how hard that is for her. I
Listened validated and kept myself reserved even though those elements are tortuous for me.
Sounds like you did well in the interactions - keeping your composure, listening, and validating.
SteveLW :
I’d like to understand what you mean by rules of engagement.
And yes I see the value in getting a life being busy and not necessarily available whenever she wants.
Your wife has moved out. Is presumably moving towards D. You need to start enacting the last resort technique.
Here are the rules of engagement:
You never reach out to her first. When she does, if she calls, let it go to voicemail. If she asks questions in the VM you can respond with texts. If she texts, only respond to direct questions. Even in your answers to direct questions you answer only the question, no pleasantries. As short as an answer as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
Must LBSs struggle with this. But the biggest mistake LBSs make is being too responsive and available to their WAS. Your best course is to make yourself as scarce as possible.
Heading out for a group day hike now in a circle of our shared friends. I think it’s possible that W will be there with a friend. I’m looking forward to the day. Will see how it goes.
Rockon,
Heading out for a group day hike now in a circle of our shared friends. I think it’s possible that W will be there with a friend. I’m looking forward to the day. Will see how it goes.
I loved the first sentence - hiking with friends is great GAL - but not so sure about the second. You should be giving space and not trying to meet up with your W.
How'd it go?
It was an amazing day with a great group! And she didn’t show.
Rockon,
Heading out for a group day hike now in a circle of our shared friends. I think it’s possible that W will be there with a friend. I’m looking forward to the day. Will see how it goes.
I loved the first sentence - hiking with friends is great GAL - but not so sure about the second. You should be giving space and not trying to meet up with your W.
How'd it go?
It was an amazing day with a great group and she didn’t show. When I arrived home, D was on the phone with my W and they had a good connection. I’m happy about that. This situation has also been very difficult for our kids and they are not happy with their mom though they love her.
W is exhibiting and voicing to me more and more indications that she is highly stressed. She was just speaking with me this afternoon while waiting for one of our really good friends to take her out to lunch. This is a solid loving kind and wise friend who has known and loved us for decades. W and her have had a solid deep friendship but this summer since W Has dramatically changed in her behaviour and attitude, W has been very reluctant to engage in these positive friendships. She even told our D recently that she doesn’t know if she will have any friends left soon.
Anyway, I validated, validated and validated some more. “That sounds like it’s really difficult for you and stressful.”
Rockon,
It was an amazing day with a great group and she didn’t show.
Glad you had a great hike with good friends - sounds like a perfect way to boost your spirits.
She was just speaking with me this afternoon while waiting for one of our really good friends to take her out to lunch.
How was she casually speaking to you? I thought she moved out. Was that a call, stop by...etc.? Remember to get busy and make yourself less available. Don't be her support system as she's leaving you; start moving the other direction.
This is a solid loving kind and wise friend who has known and loved us for decades. W and her have had a solid deep friendship but this summer since W Has dramatically changed in her behaviour and attitude, W has been very reluctant to engage in these positive friendships. She even told our D recently that she doesn’t know if she will have any friends left soon.
It's common for the WS/WAS to cut ties with people who disapprove of their actions and connect with those who support them. If your "solid loving kind and wise friend" is pro-marriage and against the affair/divorce, that might explain why your W would pull away from her.
Anyway, I validated, validated and validated some more. “That sounds like it’s really difficult for you and stressful.”
Sounds like you said the right things. Remember...no pressure, no arguing, no R talk, no logic'ing your way out...etc.
Rockon,
It was an amazing day with a great group and she didn’t show.
Glad you had a great hike with good friends - sounds like a perfect way to boost your spirits.
Yes. It was really so great! And I played hockey the night before too!
She was just speaking with me this afternoon while waiting for one of our really good friends to take her out to lunch.
How was she casually speaking to you? I thought she moved out. Was that a call, stop by...etc.? Remember to get busy and make yourself less available. Don't be her support system as she's leaving you; start moving the other direction.
She had stopped by actually and I was home.
This is a solid loving kind and wise friend who has known and loved us for decades. W and her have had a solid deep friendship but this summer since W Has dramatically changed in her behaviour and attitude, W has been very reluctant to engage in these positive friendships. She even told our D recently that she doesn’t know if she will have any friends left soon.
It's common for the WS/WAS to cut ties with people who disapprove of their actions and connect with those who support them. If your "solid loving kind and wise friend" is pro-marriage and against the affair/divorce, that might explain why your W would pull away from her.
Yes this friend is pro marriage and against affair and divorce 100% One of W’s best longest and most trusted friends. Excellent point!
Anyway, I validated, validated and validated some more. “That sounds like it’s really difficult for you and stressful.”
Sounds like you said the right things. Remember...no pressure, no arguing, no R talk, no logic'ing your way out...etc.
Yup working on it!
You are WAY too available. You are talking far too much. You can’t build mystery if you’re right there every step of the way.
She won’t feel the weight of what she’s doing if she has a shoulder to cry on 24/7.
“I’m busy.”
“I will be out.”
“I won’t be home.”
You’re playing counsellor too much.
But you are also doing a lot of things right! Keep it up Rockon.
Kind18: I see hmm this is really hard to make these changes
Kind18: I see hmm this is really hard to make these changes
This is probably one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life. To be successful it will take patience and resolve.
Yes that is a good thing. I am often impatient but I am growing. And resolve is getting stronger in me I think.
Can anyone help? I can’t find my thread “New Here”
job - I wonder if Rockon's thread was accidentally deleted?
WW sent me a text today:
“I recognize that you are really trying to be patient and kind, and I’m just feeling so emotionally overwhelmed that the smallest things are setting me off. I’m sorry that I continue to take that out on you. I want to be better.”
Background from my recent “New here” thread:
W left me this summer saying she needed time and space and voicing a lot of hurt an disappointment in our marriage, acknowledging a lot of shared trauma, and expressing that I paid so much attention to our kids that she felt I didn’t matter to her. I understand she has been involved with OM and don’t know if it has progressed to PA.
I have been working on GAL, 180, just got DR book in the mail this week. Detaching is hard for sure
Our kids (grown) are having a real hard time with W behaviours and attitude.
Rockon,
WW sent me a text today:
“I recognize that you are really trying to be patient and kind, and I’m just feeling so emotionally overwhelmed that the smallest things are setting me off. I’m sorry that I continue to take that out on you. I want to be better.”
Not sure how I'd respond to that text - maybe others could craft something - but seems better she sent that to you than nothing.
It’s a start. There have been glimpses of the old W on occasion. But she does seem so confused, significantly stressed and as my son said today, “delusional”
The text requires no response, there is no direct question!
Remember, LTR. Remember the rules of engagement.
Perfect one word that describes a WW to a T.
Steve I just started to read DR. Can you electorate on “rules of engagement”?
I found your thread and it is back on this forum.
Ok forum thread is back. Thank you to Job! I am really appreciating the support and perspectives that members have been providing me.
job - Are you able to merge Rockon's two threads (
New here &
Lost thread?) together?
I already elaborated on them in this post:
SteveLW :
I’d like to understand what you mean by rules of engagement.
And yes I see the value in getting a life being busy and not necessarily available whenever she wants.
Your wife has moved out. Is presumably moving towards D. You need to start enacting the last resort technique.
Here are the rules of engagement:
You never reach out to her first. When she does, if she calls, let it go to voicemail. If she asks questions in the VM you can respond with texts. If she texts, only respond to direct questions. Even in your answers to direct questions you answer only the question, no pleasantries. As short as an answer as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
Must LBSs struggle with this. But the biggest mistake LBSs make is being too responsive and available to their WAS. Your best course is to make yourself as scarce as possible.
Ok thanks Steve I appreciate that. For some reason I didn’t see it on the other thread.
Since W went out for lunch with a solid friend, There seems to have been a positive impact with subtle but noticeable changes in W. She is reaching out I am giving lots of space and being busy GAL not so available. There seems to be less entitlement to her. She has been asking about me, my day and showing more engagement and interest with our kids.
I’m not enthusiastically cheerleading based on this but I noticed subtle changes.
Rockon,
Since W went out for lunch with a solid friend, There seems to have been a positive impact with subtle but noticeable changes in W. She is reaching out I am giving lots of space and being busy GAL not so available. There seems to be less entitlement to her. She has been asking about me, my day and showing more engagement and interest with our kids.
I’m not enthusiastically cheerleading based on this but I noticed subtle changes.
Subtle positive changes are good - or at least better than obvious negative actions - but try not to get wrapped up on analyzing every little thing. She is likely very confused and her feelings could swing quite a bit, plus the LBS has a tendency to project their hopes onto each WS/WAS action. You'll know if she really wants to reconcile.
I'm wondering how she is asking about your day and showing more engagement? She is still moved out, correct? Is it calls, texts, stopping by the house?
Rockon,
Since W went out for lunch with a solid friend, There seems to have been a positive impact with subtle but noticeable changes in W. She is reaching out I am giving lots of space and being busy GAL not so available. There seems to be less entitlement to her. She has been asking about me, my day and showing more engagement and interest with our kids.
I’m not enthusiastically cheerleading based on this but I noticed subtle changes.
Subtle positive changes are good - or at least better than obvious negative actions - but try not to get wrapped up on analyzing every little thing. She is likely very confused and her feelings could swing quite a bit, plus the LBS has a tendency to project their hopes onto each WS/WAS action. You'll know if she really wants to reconcile.
YES, she will make it clear if she really wants to.
I'm wondering how she is asking about your day and showing more engagement? She is still moved out, correct? Is it calls, texts, stopping by the house?
ALL of the above, seems to be a pattern now of every 2 to 3 days: texts, calls, even an occasional sincere-sounding apology, dropping by (usually calls or texts first). I am working at not responding always, not answering the phone, having a life, having plans.
I really haven’t figured out the quoting and responding to messages hear very well yet.
ALL of the above, seems to be a pattern now of every 2 to 3 days: texts, calls, even an occasional sincere-sounding apology, dropping by (usually calls or texts first). I am working at not responding always, not answering the phone, having a life, having plans.
It's the push/pull of DBing...
The further you pull away, the closer she will come...
The closer you come, the further she will pull away...
She may not want you now, yet she doesn't want you to get too far away either.
It goes to show the confusion in her head.
You have to find a balance of what works with this. The counter-intuitive part of DBing is, that it feels wrong while you are in it.
So you choose if you want to feel good for now, or work toward feeling good with things later...
One involves you being so available to her...
One involves letting her see a life without you.
"Bills and Kids" seems to work best in trying to determine contact....
Mach, as usual, nailed it.
Look up the distance/pursuit dynamic. It is a real thing. I think that is what you are seeing. WWs are like cats. Ever just grab a cat and put on your lap? They will admittedly fight to get down and get away from you. But if you sit quietly, and ignore a cat, it will come to you and jump up on your lap of its own volition.
We have a couple of sayings around here that might help you. First, when she wants to come back you WILL know. It will be unequivocal.
Also, when she wants to come back, you will know. When she doesn't, you will be confused.
I'm still sensing a lot of confusion.
I'm still sensing a lot of confusion.
I was gonna ask from him, or from her....
I think it is both at this point....
Confusion from her is good....
Confusion from Rockon isn't so good....
And yes....
When they return, they will pursue HARD....
You won't have to ask, and words and actions will align....
Just make sure you clean your side of the street and be ready if it were to happen....
A WAS will seldom return to the same situation that they are trying to walk away from...
Just make sure you clean your side of the street and be ready if it were to happen....
A WAS will seldom return to the same situation that they are trying to walk away from...
This is such a good point. It's critical you work on improving yourself. People around here say "she gave you the gift of time, use it wisely"
How's the fitness program starting out? Are you eating better, upgrading your wardrobe, reading about attraction? What poor behaviors are working to 180?
Right now time probably feels like it's dragging on as you're upset about and consumed with your situation, but in a year or two you're going to look back and realize how quickly things went. Are you going to feel proud of the changes you made or say to yourself why did I waste this year or not not digging in with consistent action to become a better man?
A WAS will seldom return to the same situation that they are trying to walk away from...
Dang it! That's good.
I'm still sensing a lot of confusion.
I was gonna ask from him, or from her....
I think it is both at this point....
Confusion from her is good....
Confusion from Rockon isn't so good....
And yes....
When they return, they will pursue HARD....
You won't have to ask, and words and actions will align....
Just make sure you clean your side of the street and be ready if it were to happen....
A WAS will seldom return to the same situation that they are trying to walk away from...
Wow!!!!
Really need to learn this!
Just make sure you clean your side of the street and be ready if it were to happen....
A WAS will seldom return to the same situation that they are trying to walk away from...
This is such a good point. It's critical you work on improving yourself. People around here say "she gave you the gift of time, use it wisely"
How's the fitness program starting out? Are you eating better, upgrading your wardrobe, reading about attraction? What poor behaviors are working to 180?
Right now time probably feels like it's dragging on as you're upset about and consumed with your situation, but in a year or two you're going to look back and realize how quickly things went. Are you going to feel proud of the changes you made or say to yourself why did I waste this year or not not digging in with consistent action to become a better man?
MAN all you members, BL, Steve, Traveler, Mach: Diamonds !!!
So my fitness program is going and accelerating! My son is impressed and that doesn’t happen easily! He calls BS easily and he is really upset with WW and how she has been treating me but I have his respect and we see eye to eye and talk man to man. I am hanging out with a small select group of quality men I admire and respect. I joined a comprehensive 12 week mens health program (nutrition, fitness, mental health etc).
W was over here once ( I looked good, was dressed sharp and had quiet confident masculine energy going) recently. I noticed her subconsciously look me up and down not say a word but she moaned and I did not comment.
I have been engaging in positive dynamic mixed (men and women) social circles . Learning about attraction and getting used to confidently being friendly and outgoing with women. Their positive attention feels good and I’m being careful not to give inappropriate messages (keeping my man friends in the loop too so I remain wise about temptation.
W has gone out for lunch today with another solid fierce direct dynamic woman (these words all describe who wife was before acting out the WW delusional lifestyle ) who happens to be our Pastor’s wife. Will pay attention (without placing undue emphasis or expectation on outward behaviours or drawing unrealistic conclusions) to potential positive impacts similar to what has been happening since she went out with the other solid friend. If anything, this one might be even more pro marriage though that would be hard to believe knowing the other friend.
For me, I am working on being clear and resolute! Got a ways to go and recognize the marathon before me.
W was over here once ( I looked good, was dressed sharp and had quiet confident masculine energy going) recently. I noticed her subconsciously look me up and down not say a word but she moaned and I did not comment.
I have been engaging in positive dynamic mixed (men and women) social circles . Learning about attraction and getting used to confidently being friendly and outgoing with women. Their positive attention feels good and I’m being careful not to give inappropriate messages (keeping my man friends in the loop too so I remain wise about temptation.
Make no mistake...
You doing that is going to stir up some anger in her...
She's gonna wonder why it had to come to this for you to be different....
Create a little mystery (not in a Scooby-Doo kinda way either).
Don't be so available when you know she is going to be around.
If you are like that and she shows up, suddenly have an appointment that you have to attend.
Let her wonder what you are doing....
Let her question her choices and decisions about you.
Her anger is going to be with herself more than it is with you.
Yet, you will feel the wrath at times.
All that anger HAS to come out at some point before things can change...
Anger is good though. Just make sure that you use
your anger as a shield instead of a sword....
The trick is.....
That you are doing that because it's who you want to be. NOT because you want to solely affect her.
A WAS can smell fake like a drug dog can sniff out a Cheech and Chong movie set...
Understand ?
Changes are for YOU and you alone....
And they have to be consistent. IF you change for her, then there is no consistency in them...
This isn't a game, yet it will play like one....
You can't lead when you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see who is following....
Mach thank you - your points are certainly cutting clear and helpful. It seems I need to really examine my intentions, motivations and Achilles points of vulnerabilities.
This is really hard!
Yea, well, if schidt was easy, Charlie Sheen would be sober... : )
Set yourself apart from the normal by the roads that you travel...
There can't be a Testament without a test....
What are you reading now ??
I’m reading Stay Curious, Ezekiel (Bible), Divorce Remedy, and When Life Hits Hard
If you're a Bible reader I'd add Job to the list.
Rockon,
So my fitness program is going and accelerating!
I joined a comprehensive 12 week mens health program (nutrition, fitness, mental health etc).
Excellent! You're going to feel great about yourself after 12 weeks. Now...you have to make sure you stay dedicated and keep it up. Lots of people lose 20-30lbs post-BD on the "divorce diet" and start working out but then over time they lose the momentum and stop going and it comes back on. The key for you will be working that 12 weeks into 12 months.
My son is impressed and that doesn’t happen easily! He calls BS easily and he is really upset with WW and how she has been treating me but I have his respect and we see eye to eye and talk man to man.
Just be careful not to get into too many details about W with your kids, or bad mouth her. Keep the conversations geared towards you and your relationship with your son.
I am hanging out with a small select group of quality men I admire and respect.
Awesome. Surround yourself with the people who will help you become the person you want to be.
W was over here once ( I looked good, was dressed sharp and had quiet confident masculine energy going) recently. I noticed her subconsciously look me up and down not say a word but she moaned and I did not comment.
Nice job looking good, dressing well, and being confident. Curious why she's over again? It seems to be frequent? Next time maybe switch it up a bit and when she texts to stop by respond "Not today, I'm out with a friend."
I have been engaging in positive dynamic mixed (men and women) social circles . Learning about attraction and getting used to confidently being friendly and outgoing with women. Their positive attention feels good and I’m being careful not to give inappropriate messages (keeping my man friends in the loop too so I remain wise about temptation.
Awesome! Stay social and work on being confident and friendly, but like you said...avoid temptation.
W has gone out for lunch today with another solid fierce direct dynamic woman (these words all describe who wife was before acting out the WW delusional lifestyle ) who happens to be our Pastor’s wife. Will pay attention (without placing undue emphasis or expectation on outward behaviours or drawing unrealistic conclusions) to potential positive impacts similar to what has been happening since she went out with the other solid friend. If anything, this one might be even more pro marriage though that would be hard to believe knowing the other friend.
It's good she's counseling with friends who are pro-marriage. Many WS/WAS cast those friends aside and focus on the ones who will validate their affairs/separation/divorces. I distinctly remember my now-ExW had a brunch meet up on the calendar with a pro-marriage friend and hoping desperately the friend would talk some sense into her. They didn't end up getting together. So...better that she is talking to those folks than not, but be wary she's going to end up doing what her emotions are telling her she wants - don't bank on people talking her out of anything.
For me, I am working on being clear and resolute! Got a ways to go and recognize the marathon before me.
Good attitude. Way to stay positive.
Hardest thing we will most likely do, but all the new skills will be well worth all the effort for you.
It is a whole new way of thinking, being, as well as interacting with others. Dropping bad traits and picking up new positive ones will make you a completely new person.
Also, nothing worthwhile is easy.
If you're a Bible reader I'd add Job to the list.
And keep reading Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians on love. That says it all. Clear direction.
If you're a Bible reader I'd add Job to the list.
And keep reading Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians on love. That says it all. Clear direction.
W did Text me “I can tell you’re trying really hard to be patient and kind….” In an apology text to me. And I was reflecting this week on 1 Cor 13:4 love is patient love is kind
This week has gone quite well all things considered. Last night W invited me over to have dinner with her and her mom and I accepted. It was quite lovely. Please any conversation. More eye contact from W and she showed interest in me. W wanted to spend some time visiting with me after dinner - I excused myself politely thanking them both for having me.W complimented me on my appearance and commented that I seemed to be healthy.
So if you would have declined stating you had plans what do you think W would have been thinking about the entire time?
Everything about successfully DBing feels wrong and is hard for the LBS. Thats why most people don’t successfully bust their divorce. To bust a D timing is very important. The good news is that if you stick with your changes and make the improvements eventually you won’t care anymore and move on. Unfortunately as sad as it sounds that is when you are most likely to reconcile. You will have an even playing field and you will become a person of value and that makes you someone worth having. That’s what makes people feel good.
It seems like I am having a hard time getting it and implementing it but your challenges and insights are helping me - arrrrrgh!
It seems like I am having a hard time getting it and implementing it but your challenges and insights are helping me - arrrrrgh!
So let me ask you this Rockon, what did you think that was going to happen at this dinner?
So let me ask you this Rockon, what did you think that was going to happen at this dinner?
I had the same question....
This verse was a rock for me. to really understand how I fit into it, was moving for me...
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8For everything there is a season,
and a time for every matter under heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pick what is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.This is her time.....
It can also be YOUR time if you let it....
What does it mean to you for it to be her time ??
Your time ??
LH and Mach
For the Dinner, we had scheduled a conversation to work on something that we needed to do for our extended family and then she invited me for dinner while we were having the conversation . That conversation itself was necessary for us to have about important decisions for us to make and it went well we were both appropriately engaged and the old W seemed to be back: wise, intelligent, prudent, in her right mind.
When she invited me to come for dinner, I excepted and Anticipated a pleasant time together which happened. I excused myself before I stayed too long saying that I had to get to an engagement
Mock colon regarding her time, to me that means that she has work to do she has a process she is going through and I don’t have control so I need to give her space and time and respect. My time: this is an opportunity. I was talking with my therapist today about all the changes I have implemented and the counselor was helping me to see that I am living out my values without W and encouraged me to stay the course and establish and strengthen the lifestyle that’s important to me
Mock colon (oh my) was supposed to be
Mach:
Voice to text !
Rockon, please watch out for the old trap so many LBSs have fallen into: finding excuses to not adhere to good DBing strategies.
I'd challenge that this discussion was necessary. LBSs tend to put emphasis on things that don't need emphasis. But for sake of argument let's assume it was and that you aren't talking yourself into the importance of it. The right play would have been too decline her invitation in the name of being busy..... Then going out and being busy!
Most LBSs interact with their WAS/WS more than they should. Interacting with her is a cheeseless tunnel. It is like a hit of drugs. Short term good feeling and then the withdrawal symptoms come back worse than before. Not taking that hit is there quickest way through the withdrawals.
Ok will adjust. I have made many changes and this is an important one too.
Found out today from W that she will be traveling to have a holiday next month with OM. She did not admit to the OM / affair part and says she is not ready to talk about that. I did tell her that she is an adult and responsible for her own choices and that I don’t control her. However I made it clear that it matters to me and that I am not ok with her cheating or having an affair.
The conversation was stressful for her but not so bad for me and I believe that I expressed myself clearly respectfully and authentically. I also told her that I am asking her to stop any stairs/cheating out of respect for the LORD and for me and our marriage. She heard me.
Now detaching. I am in the mountains with a good friend.
Rockon,
Found out today from W that she will be traveling to have a holiday next month with OM.
That's tough man, sorry. That sinking feeling in your gut knowing your spouse is going off to cheat, and you simply can't do anything to stop her. Does OM live far away? It's extremely difficult, but really all you can do is accept the situation and detach and try to focus on enjoying your own life.
She did not admit to the OM / affair part and says she is not ready to talk about that.
There have been stories on here where the LBS catches the WS red-handed and the WS still denies. It's likely they'll lie and deny - or at least not admit the full extent - until the end of time.
I did tell her that she is an adult and responsible for her own choices and that I don’t control her. However I made it clear that it matters to me and that I am not ok with her cheating or having an affair.
It's good you kept your cool. However, I get the sense it's still way too much talking. Myself and others on her have recommend you NOT be available for dinners, or stop ins, or conversations. Remember...make yourself less available, and actions over words!
What if any actions are you planning to take while she's visiting OM or when she returns?
The conversation was stressful for her but not so bad for me
Glad you handled it calmly and didn't get worked up, but remember...a goal of DB'ing is no R talks and no pressure. You're not trying to stress her out.
I believe that I expressed myself clearly respectfully and authentically. I also told her that I am asking her to stop any stairs/cheating out of respect for the LORD and for me and our marriage. She heard me.
This seems like pressure to me. You've said your peace, now nothing more to say going forward.
Now detaching. I am in the mountains with a good friend.
Awesome! Great that you're going out and doing things with friends - the GAL will help keep your mind off things and detach.
Oh boy shaming here with the LORD. Pulling out the big guns. So if you are not willing to do anything about the affair it’s best to never bring it up. I would go completely dark if I were you.
Rockon,
RE the dinner...
Last night W invited me over to have dinner with her and her mom and I accepted. It was quite lovely.
When she invited me to come for dinner, I excepted and Anticipated a pleasant time together which happened. I excused myself before I stayed too long saying that I had to get to an engagement
I want to tell you a story about my own situation...
This was after BD and during what you'd call IHS, during which I knew she was in an EA & PA with a married coworker and sleeping on an air mattress in our guest room and I was at home putting our then-S4 and D1 to bed and getting them up in the morning while she "worked late" and "went in early". I was in IC using it as a guidance to win her back and consuming online resources about affairs...etc. I didn't find this site and start posting until she moved out. Anyway...
My then-W would invite my parents over for Sunday dinners. Make this big roast and mashed potatoes and a wonderful meal and we'd all sit around and eat and talk like we'd always have. I knew based on my snooping she was telling her AP she had to do it to pretend and not "blow up his spot" (i.e., their work and his wife finding out) and tell her friends she was doing it to "keep the peace". And my parents knew what was up, so me and my parents were putting on a show and pretending as well, in hopes she would see the normalcy of Sunday dinner and want keep the family together. On its face it was a wonderful end of weekend event with a married couple, young kids, and grandparents...something so many people across the country do on a regular basis. However, that was a façade and we were all being fake and looking back I think how messed up was it of me and my parents to play around in this charade? I wish now I had told her "No thanks, I'm going to the gym".
Now, that was my experience and it doesn't necessarily mean that's your situation - I don't know what your W's intentions were for that dinner. Maybe she was trying to "keep the peace" or not "blow up anyone's spot" or maybe she was playing nice to soften you up for something OR maybe she just really is confused and wanted to be genuinely nice. BUT, don't be surprised if underneath her offer was some real anger and resentment towards you she was covering up - it's very possible.
The point is...don't get caught up in playing a game with her. She may have made dinner but she's also going on holiday with OM. You need to start acting stronger! Stand up for yourself. DO NOT be an option for your W when you're her backup. Make yourself less available, go dark. Make sure she knows (by your actions, not your words) she's losing you. Instead of giving her comfort of being there for her just in case she changes her mind, you want to pull the rug out from under her and upset her stability of having you on the back burner.
Rockon,
Found out today from W that she will be traveling to have a holiday next month with OM.
That's tough man, sorry. That sinking feeling in your gut knowing your spouse is going off to cheat, and you simply can't do anything to stop her. Does OM live far away? It's extremely difficult, but really all you can do is accept the situation and detach and try to focus on enjoying your own life.
YES OM she will be travelling with lives out of country, though it seems she may also be having an EA with a local OM. Trying to detach yes and focus on what I need to do. Working on it but it’s hard.
She did not admit to the OM / affair part and says she is not ready to talk about that.
There have been stories on here where the LBS catches the WS red-handed and the WS still denies. It's likely they'll lie and deny - or at least not admit the full extent - until the end of time.
I did tell her that she is an adult and responsible for her own choices and that I don’t control her. However I made it clear that it matters to me and that I am not ok with her cheating or having an affair.
It's good you kept your cool. However, I get the sense it's still way too much talking. Myself and others on her have recommend you NOT be available for dinners, or stop ins, or conversations. Remember...make yourself less available, and actions over words!
YES working on that.
What if any actions are you planning to take while she's visiting OM or when she returns?
I have scheduled an IC session the first week she is away. I plan to really enjoy my life during that time. I don’t want to drive her to the airport but am considering picking her up on return if she asks - not sure. Also I will be planning D birthday party with D. Im learning about LRT from DR as well. Other that that, I’m don’t know what actions to take- open to suggestions.
The conversation was stressful for her but not so bad for me
Glad you handled it calmly and didn't get worked up, but remember...a goal of DB'ing is no R talks and no pressure. You're not trying to stress her out.
RIGHT ok. It’s true - not trying to stress her out but I recognize and she is telling me she is very stressed.
I believe that I expressed myself clearly respectfully and authentically. I also told her that I am asking her to stop any stairs/cheating out of respect for the LORD and for me and our marriage. She heard me.
This seems like pressure to me. You've said your peace, now nothing more to say going forward.
YES ok
Now detaching. I am in the mountains with a good friend.
Awesome! Great that you're going out and doing things with friends - the GAL will help keep your mind off things and detach.
Oh boy shaming here with the LORD. Pulling out the big guns. So if you are not willing to do anything about the affair it’s best to never bring it up. I would go completely dark if I were you.
LH: when you mention willingness to do anything about the affair, what are you referring to - going dark? And what does that mean going dark?
I have told my best friend about the affair (the one I am in the mountains with - solid man), but I haven’t told our kids or others. She has moved out I am working on detaching and GAL and looking after myself and the kind of life I want.
PS, I am working through the impacts of the infidelity and breakdown in IC as well.
BL:
“Now, that was my experience and it doesn't necessarily mean that's your situation - I don't know what your W's intentions were for that dinner. Maybe she was trying to "keep the peace" or not "blow up anyone's spot" or maybe she was playing nice to soften you up for something OR maybe she just really is confused and wanted to be genuinely nice. BUT, don't be surprised if underneath her offer was some real anger and resentment towards you she was covering up - it's very possible.
The point is...don't get caught up in playing a game with her. She may have made dinner but she's also going on holiday with OM. You need to start acting stronger! Stand up for yourself. DO NOT be an option for your W when you're her backup. Make yourself less available, go dark. Make sure she knows (by your actions, not your words) she's losing you. Instead of giving her comfort of being there for her just in case she changes her mind, you want to pull the rug out from under her and upset her stability of having you on the back burner”
YES thanks for that. And I recognize underlying hurts, anger and resentment. Time to be strong in my actions and let them speak my stance .
Rockon,
YES OM she will be travelling with lives out of country, though it seems she may also be having an EA with a local OM. Trying to detach yes and focus on what I need to do. Working on it but it’s hard.
It is extremely hard, no doubt - one of the the most difficult things you'll deal with in your life. So...don't beat yourself up over every little mistake - we've all made them - but make sure you're trying your hardest to work towards where you need to be.
In terms of the foreign AND local OMs...my now-ExW got together with OM2 after things blew up with OM1 even before she moved out, so also try not to focus on a particular OM because it's ultimately about your W, not them. Again...easier said than done. I know, trust me.
I have scheduled an IC session the first week she is away. I plan to really enjoy my life during that time.
Good! IC and GAL. Perfect.
I don’t want to drive her to the airport but am considering picking her up on return if she asks - not sure.
DO NOT, under any circumstances, pick her up from the airport after a trip she went on to cheat on you. DO NOT offer to pick her up afterwards to "be nice". This shouldn't even be a consideration. Time to grow a backbone. STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. Be a man and command respect - do not try to curry favor from anyone, especially your wife, who is treating you with such disrespect!
Other that that, I’m don’t know what actions to take- open to suggestions.
How about pack up any remaining belongings she has in the house and leave them on the porch for her to pick up? Then go dark/no contact. That means nothing. No dinners, no stop ins, no calls or texts. Even if she reaches out about divorce business..."please contact my L".
Whew!! Stark and good for me to see typed out in black and white. Truth is hard to take but I have been craving truth honesty and clarity so yeah!!
Whew!! Stark and good for me to see typed out in black and white. Truth is hard to take but I have been craving truth honesty and clarity so yeah!!
You'll get there, Rockon. You've made some mistakes but everyone does...you're also doing a lot very well. You need to understand it's a mindset. Starting working on "flipping the power". Act as if. Instead of being scared and worried about what W is going to do - which you can't control - start KNOWING that YOU are the prize and she is crazy to lose you. That you're going to have an awesome life whether you let her back or not. The sooner you understand those concepts the sooner you'll feel great.
Please start a new thread and link both threads together. You have reached the 100 posting/reply limit. Thanks!
Job can you walk me through how to do that?
Ok will adjust. I have made many changes and this is an important one too.
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