Feels like failure again - DivorceBusting.com

Hello all,

I’m back. Didn’t think I’d have to say that. Went through all this pain years ago and divorce to spend years reclaiming me and changing my life. Got married again less than five years ago and it feels like everything is slipping away again. I’m not even sure where to start. We aren’t separated but can barely be around each other when the kids aren’t there. With our kids we do great. But the rest of the time, wife seems so uncomfortable with me. Says she’s lost all attraction for me and the more she’s gotten to know me through the years the worse that has gotten. Hurts like hell to hear and just seems brutal. I’m trying to disconnect but my family is all I have. I remember some of the rules here. Focus on me and all that but I’m just so down it’s hard to get in a safe space and control me. Anyhow, this helped last time to post. Hoping it might through our challenges now.

Hi Bunches,

So sorry to hear that.

I'm glad you're working on it while it's "slipping" and not full BD! Although, it sounds like you're near that point if she's telling you she's lost all attraction. What behaviors are bothering her? Are these behaviors you consider core you, or are they behaviors you feel you should change? The first step is to stop doing damage! Hope you're getting sleep, taking time to destress, and totally cutting our any arguing or defending--perhaps even validating.

Bunches

Welcome back. Need more info. Ages, kids, are they from the both of you? Why do you think she lost attraction for you?

Is she willing to go to marriage counseling? Do you duspect her if having an affair? Do you know her Love Languages? Do you have issues you think you need to correct in yourself - ie are any of her complaints legitimate? We’re there red flags before you married her that you ignored?

So married 4.5 years. 6 kids (1 mine / 5 hers). My son lived with me his whole life until last April when we had a house fire and he had to move to stay with his mom because hotel living wasn’t conducive to low functioning autism. Of her five boys the oldest isn’t speaking to us for a year after a huge disagreement with his mom. The other four come and go on a rotating 2/2/3 schedule. My wife works nights and I work days.

She has had severe depression for several years for years and has some chronic hip pains. Since last year she’s now also enjoying early menopause. We are both 41. Survived one physical affair and an emotional affair both just after one year of marriage.

She’s been distancing herself more and more this past 6 months but I confronted her recently and said I needed some answers. She wrote a three page letter explaining she’s lost all attraction for me and feels awful about if but is tired of feeling like the bad guy 75% of the time and she’s created avoidance rather than feeling awkward around me. It’s not been easy to be around each other with that problem hanging out there.

I’ve joined a gym, going regularly again and mens small group again at church. She’s confrontational but always manages to act normal when kids are at house. Says I’m an amazing dad and literally tells me there’s a million great things about me but it’s obvious she perceives me as weak. Difficulty is we live far from my friends and family so I hav little to no support network and without my son around I feel so alone now. I’m the kind of husband that actually likes to talk about our relationship and discuss but my wife gets uncomfortable and uses silence until she feels like writing down her feelings.

She wrote in her recent letter than she knows she loves me because she can’t stand telling me things that hurt me. So she had to write this stuff down. She never seems to know what to say to me and says I just fill the air with stating the obvious all the time. We aren’t great at communicating because we are so different. We used to be mad about each other and loved to be around each other all the time but the more time passes we find we have so little in common. I’ve taken in more of what she enjoys for years. We’ve gone camping, hiking, kayaking even though I had always been a more in doors guy.

I realize my explanation is all over the place buts hard to tell the whole story in one pass. I worry about another affair because it’s happened before.

I’ve signed up for marriage counseling in the 17th, trying to take the lead on organizing. We had talked some months ago about taking a trip for us at the end of May but today I got a message from her that she doesn’t want to be anywhere together for days since it will just feel like staring at each other for days and it would be awkward. Some frustrated texts with each other and then had to drop the conversation. I don’t know when I became so disgusting to her. Apparently the things she hates about me is that I’ve always jumped up to do things for her when she doesn’t want me to do anything. I’m over focused on her it seems and I don’t have any passions in life outside of her and the kids.

Here is your first post here

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=55107&Number=2429940#Post2429940

not to bring up a sore subject but for context.

also my welcome post in case you forgot

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Originally Posted by kml

Do you know her Love Languages? Do you have issues you think you need to correct in yourself - ie are any of her complaints legitimate? We’re there red flags before you married her that you ignored?

Her love languages are gifts and acts of service. Even though it changes at times. She experiences some real difficult shifts at times. Her only complaint that she has expressed still so far is being completely unattracted but somehow it’s seems to have affected everything.

Red flags, probably… but we dated and married pretty quickly. Didn’t spend a lot of times looking for the red flags. Pretty stupid I know.

It makes sense that as you’ve dropped your own life and passions, the things that attracted her to you, her attraction for you has dropped.

I’d like to hear more about your son. Are you saying He has not lived with you for over a year? What are you doing to remedy that situation? What custody % did you have before that? I wonder how she feels about your handling of that.

I’m not sure about my previous changes. She has referred to me as too codependent so maybe it’s that’s I’m too focused on her and not enough on myself and being on my own at times.

So my son is another story. He’s 13 now about to be 14 and last year before our home fire she was pushing me to let him go live with his mom who was pushing to change custody arrangements at that time. I was pushing back until a night weeks before when my spouse admitted to a long term issue abusing pain meds. I decided I might need to consider it seeing how unstable things were at home and I had no idea. Then the house burned and we had no safe dove for him. Crammed our big family into hotels for months and then a too small apartment past that.

My son was easier to manage when he was smaller but when he got bigger he started making my wife uncomfortable. He’s hit puberty and approaches girls a little differently these days. He gets kind of grabby so while I could see my wife seeing letting him move being something she didn’t expect to go so easily, I think it had to happen given the circumstances.

Oh and to answer your question, I had him full time before that and he visited his mom every other weekend or times she had requests for vacation.

Originally Posted by Bunches

I’m not sure about my previous changes. She has referred to me as too codependent so maybe it’s that’s I’m too focused on her and not enough on myself and being on my own at times.

Okay. So take that as truth. STOP doing anything for her. Unless is has to do with the kids - let her figure everything out on her own. This would be a 180 for you.

Quote

Survived one physical affair and an emotional affair both just after one year of marriage.

Wait a minute! She had two affairs in the first year of marriage, AND was hiding a serious drug addiction, and you chose staying with her over moving out with your autistic son?????

Choose your son and get out of there. Really. Make a home where he can spend more time with you. Don't keep holding on to her.

Bunches, I sense that you already know what you must do (focus off her, on you. GAL, self-improvements, detachment) but that you are fighting that at the moment.

Your WAS has given you the gift of being honest about how she feels about your right now. Yet you are pushing back against it. "I don't want to be around you", so you go out and schedule marriage counseling? Can you look back at that and realize just how illogical that is? She's essentially told you she wants less of you, and your reaction is to try to give her more of you!

Time and space is the only thing that will resolve this, one way or the other. Unfortunately, the eventual outcome is out of your hands. There is NOTHING you can do to make it come out the way you would like it to. But there are LOTS of behaviors that will result in you ended up D'd, and much more quickly than it would naturally take, if you aren't careful. You've been here before. You know the drill. So stop fighting what you know you need to do and just start putting the actions into place!

You've already got a good start with the gym and men's group, just double-down on things like that and leave her alone to try to figure out her own stuff. Be a father first, go out and GAL, and give her the time and space she is so desperately begging for! She may just decide that she misses you when you suddenly you aren't there anymore. But for sure you cannot get her to that point by hounding her.

I'll go back and read your first situation.

Bunches, your first thread just seemed to end with no resolution, though in this thread you said you ended up Ding your first W and this is your second W.

So what did you do to work on yourself after your 1st marriage to improve and become a better future spouse for your next marriage? How did this relationship begin? Were you D'd, and did some time pass before you met your current W, or did you just jump into the next relationship right away?

You may be wondering why these questions are important, but they are because a lot of LBSs struggle with letting the end of a marriage make them better people before jumping into another R. And you need to learn from all of his yourself, so that IF you end up Ding again, you do not set yourself up for the same thing to happen for a third time.

So after first W I spent three years alone actually and then dated here and there but nothing much. Current W and I spent years chatting online but didn't date or even get together. Just that person you could talk to about your troubles. Before we got together I had a surplus of time on my hands and spent it being out with kids and was in better shape than now. Spent a lot more time on being a better version of me. I can see your point there. Over these years my time has become more and more invested in working and responsibilities. Less to be attracted to and now my few days off I'm not really that motivated anymore to get up and do anything of value. Our schedules these days are so opposite and she is full time school while working nights at a hospital.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So after first W I spent three years alone actually and then dated here and there but nothing much. Current W and I spent years chatting online but didn't date or even get together. Just that person you could talk to about your troubles. Before we got together I had a surplus of time on my hands and spent it being out with kids and was in better shape than now. Spent a lot more time on being a better version of me. I can see your point there. Over these years my time has become more and more invested in working and responsibilities. Less to be attracted to and now my few days off I'm not really that motivated anymore to get up and do anything of value. Our schedules these days are so opposite and she is full time school while working nights at a hospital.

Bunches, thanks for the additional insight. You spent 3 years alone after your first marriage, so you know that if you have to do that again, you will survive. Early on in these situations we think that our MR is life and death, and it really is not. You know this more than most.

Another thought ran through my head reading your thread from 8 years ago. I didn't really see you DBing. I see you updating on interactions with your then W (no Ex) and then you went dark and didn't come back until your new thread about marriage #2. Have you read Divorce Busting and/or Divorce Remedy? Do you want to put the principles in place to see where things go? It is a lot of work. More work than most of us LBSs had put into our marriage for the years leading up to our problems. But all of the advice you got in the first thread 8 years ago remains. You cannot control her. You cannot snap your fingers and fix this. You cannot nice her back, or treat her like a new girlfriend to woo her back. You have to change your behavior and approach to change your dynamics. Focus off of her, remove all pressure and pursuit, go out and GAL, work on self-improvements (active on this forum, get into IC, read DB/DR and other books, etc), and work on emotionally detaching from her. Concentrating on those things might make a difference. Learn from the failure of 8 years ago to become the best version of yourself you can be. Become a man only a fool would leave!

So, what are your plans for tonight? Tomorrow? Thursday? Friday? and Saturday? Be a father first, but when you aren't being a father be out leaving a fun, fulfilled, exciting life!

Still - why did you stay after she cheated twice in the first year of marriage?

Originally Posted by kml

Still - why did you stay after she cheated twice in the first year of marriage?

I don’t know that I can give a reason that would make sense to anyone. Her emotional affair, if that’s all it was, seemed to make no sense. She seemed so broken that it had happened. There was so much regret. I didn’t know what to do.

Then the physical affair. It broke me. I seriously thought about leaving but I simply asked her what she wanted after the dust settled and considered my role. I believe that being a husband requires a forgiving heart without judgement of regret and want to change is there. The problem is that she isn’t very good at setting her sights past her emotions. And maybe I had grown too dependent upon her to leave. I didn’t realize in the beginning she lavished loving behavior so much on me that I needed it for being happy. I should have realized then that I needed some safety net and safer boundaries.

Bunches,

Read up on attachment styles. My guess is that you are in an anxious/avoidant relationship.

Yeah, you might want to read up on love bombing. A good therapist might be helpful for working through this stuff.

Originally Posted by kml

Yeah, you might want to read up on love bombing. A good therapist might be helpful for working through this stuff.

This was my thought exactly! You got love-bombed, then you became overly attached. Then she felt she could do whatever she wanted. And Bunches, you proved her right. Remember, we teach people how to treat us. I agree with kml, IC is a must at this point.

Originally Posted by SteveLW

[quote=Bunches]Have you read Divorce Busting and/or Divorce Remedy? Do you want to put the principles in place to see where things go?

So, what are your plans for tonight? Tomorrow? Thursday? Friday? and Saturday? Be a father first, but when you aren't being a father be out leaving a fun, fulfilled, exciting life!

Also Bunches, just wondering if you could answer the above.

Bunches - I read ur first sitch, do u mind me asking, how did it end? What happened to ur eX?

Originally Posted by SteveLW

[quote=Bunches]Have you read Divorce Busting and/or Divorce Remedy? Do you want to put the principles in place to see where things go?

So, what are your plans for tonight? Tomorrow? Thursday? Friday? and Saturday? Be a father first, but when you aren't being a father be out leaving a fun, fulfilled, exciting life!

Also Bunches, just wondering if you could answer the above.

So yes, I did read the DB books years ago but that was during first sitch. Could revisit them but it’s hard to keep books like that around. 6 boys get into everything and ask lots of questions. Could be problematic.

Plans are around exercise and church group the next couple days. I’m heading alone this weekend to Atlanta for a memorial service she isn’t attending with me. I’ll be gone for a lot of the weekend with friends.

So question- I’ve been considering boundaries a lot recently. While I’m not trying to create a bigger gap my W spends money like it’s going out of style in the last six months and it’s got me thinking maybe about splitting checking accounts. She tends to dominate spending and decide what needs to be bought ASAP. I’m not cool with it but not sure if this is going to be a bad idea. For me it’s about creating some security for things getting worse. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Jq25

Bunches - I read ur first sitch, do u mind me asking, how did it end? What happened to ur eX?

JQ25 my first sitch ended with my ex W never looking back. I wasn’t capable of detaching, never could control my emotions and went too long trying to control the sitch instead of just working on my life. We went a couple years with her jumping through relationships and eventually found one that stuck. She is now remarried and happily getting to be a stay at home mom.

Hi Bunches,

In the USA, an account created after you married using funds from your marriage is probably community property. To secure my finances, I had to file for legal separation or divorce, which included restraining orders on my XW’s unilateral usage of the shared accounts and encouraged separating finances. I’m skeptical your plan secures your money. Some retirement accounts may be harder to touch with less drama. I’d speak to an attorney or accountant about your goals.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So question- I’ve been considering boundaries a lot recently. While I’m not trying to create a bigger gap my W spends money like it’s going out of style in the last six months and it’s got me thinking maybe about splitting checking accounts. She tends to dominate spending and decide what needs to be bought ASAP. I’m not cool with it but not sure if this is going to be a bad idea. For me it’s about creating some security for things getting worse. Thoughts?

I have no idea how much $$$ my W diverted from our joint accounts during her "planning" phase. After I determined I could no longer trust her, I opened a new bank account and had my paycheck deposited there. I was then able to transfer my share of the "real bills" into the joint account. Certain things are OK before, but not after divorce paperwork is filed. Definitely get professional advise.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So question- I’ve been considering boundaries a lot recently. While I’m not trying to create a bigger gap my W spends money like it’s going out of style in the last six months and it’s got me thinking maybe about splitting checking accounts. She tends to dominate spending and decide what needs to be bought ASAP. I’m not cool with it but not sure if this is going to be a bad idea. For me it’s about creating some security for things getting worse. Thoughts?

This is getting into a legal area. Doing things like this without the help of lawyer is not advisable. Consult a good attorney.

So I'm not as worried about legalities of the money. My W is a nurse and with recent travel contracts is bringing home more than I do. We're usually on par making the same but recent times has cause them a lot of additional funding for her. I don't think she'd pursue it. More so I'm thinking about cause and effect. Would I be making things worse and is it worth it are more on my mind.

I read about love bombing multiple people referenced yesterday and I can see the points made. Feels like I'm here to provide and take care of the kids these days. Makes me feel used.

Hi Bunches,

If your wife sees you creating a new account she doesn’t have access to and funneling money into it, of course that’s going to create friction.

To me, it’s not worth it UNLESS it accomplishes your goal of securing money in case of divorce. So, whether it’s a good move is tied to the legalities. I’m assuming she or her family or a friend will at some point direct her to an attorney who will do any finding and pursuing for her.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So I'm not as worried about legalities of the money. My W is a nurse and with recent travel contracts is bringing home more than I do. We're usually on par making the same but recent times has cause them a lot of additional funding for her. I don't think she'd pursue it. More so I'm thinking about cause and effect. Would I be making things worse and is it worth it are more on my mind.

I read about love bombing multiple people referenced yesterday and I can see the points made. Feels like I'm here to provide and take care of the kids these days. Makes me feel used.

The advice on seeking legal counsel still applies. Dealing with community property can escalate quickly, even when you think it won't. I'd tread lightly here because it could come back to haunt you in a settlement.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Feels like I'm here to provide and take care of the kids these days. Makes me feel used.

I bet, especially since you gave up living with your son to be with her.

Regarding childcare, that’s obviously a huge “give”. Is she giving more in another area such as rent, cleaning, meals, etc to roughly balance your division of responsibilities in the relationship? If no, I’d be tempted to drop offering the childcare service and use that time to regain more custody of your son, GAL, etc. more self differentiation! Like she’s asking you for, too.

Bunches,

Originally Posted by Bunches

Originally Posted by kml

Still - why did you stay after she cheated twice in the first year of marriage?

I don’t know that I can give a reason that would make sense to anyone.

My ExW & I went to all of 3-4 MC sessions before she finally admitted the affair and said she wanted a D. Afterwards I contacted the counselor separately to try to make sense of things. Her comment to me will always stand out in my mind: "You should think about what it says about you that you'd still want to be with someone who betrayed you."

Sounds like you could use some self-reflection here as well.

Bunches,

Sorry you're in this painful situation, but glad you're back here posting, as there are plenty of people who want to help.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Our schedules these days are so opposite and she is full time school while working nights at a hospital.

Originally Posted by Bunches

My wife works nights and I work days.

Originally Posted by Bunches

My W is a nurse and with recent travel contracts

So this interesting to me, and a major issue IMO. Not only are you on opposite schedules and barely see each other, but she works as a nurse in a hospital surrounded by plenty of male coworkers often times in high pressure situations, which provides plenty of temptation/opportunity. Perhaps my own situation biases me, but I've heard plenty of similar stories at the hospital...almost to the point it's a red flag going forward.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So married 4.5 years. 6 kids (1 mine / 5 hers).

5 kids you're helping to raise? Sounds like she's bringing plenty of baggage to the table.

Originally Posted by Bunches

My son lived with me his whole life until last April when we had a house fire and he had to move to stay with his mom because hotel living wasn’t conducive to low functioning autism.

Are you still living in a hotel? What are you doing to get back time with your son? Also, special needs children often cause a lot of stress on the parents' relationship and I've read can lead to divorce in higher percentages.

Originally Posted by Bunches

She’s been distancing herself more and more this past 6 months but I confronted her recently and said I needed some answers.

Were you giving her space? Confrontations and pressure are typically frowned upon here.

Originally Posted by Bunches

She wrote a three page letter explaining she’s lost all attraction for me and feels awful about if but is tired of feeling like the bad guy 75% of the time and she’s created avoidance rather than feeling awkward around me.

Did you respond? If so, how?

Originally Posted by Bunches

I’ve joined a gym, going regularly again and mens small group again at church.

Awesome!

Originally Posted by Bunches

Says I’m an amazing dad and literally tells me there’s a million great things about me but it’s obvious she perceives me as weak.

Sounds like she's trying to make it easier to hurt you by saying all the other great things about you.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Difficulty is we live far from my friends and family so I hav little to no support network and without my son around I feel so alone now.

That is difficult. Family and friends are often great support systems.

Originally Posted by Bunches

We used to be mad about each other and loved to be around each other all the time but the more time passes we find we have so little in common. I’ve taken in more of what she enjoys for years. We’ve gone camping, hiking, kayaking even though I had always been a more in doors guy.

Sounds potentially like you weren't honest about your wants and needs? It's important to express those.

Originally Posted by Bunches

I’ve signed up for marriage counseling in the 17th, trying to take the lead on organizing.

Does she want this? If she's not willing or interested, it's usually said here not to do it. If that's the case perhaps use the time/money for IC instead?

Originally Posted by Bunches

We had talked some months ago about taking a trip for us at the end of May but today I got a message from her that she doesn’t want to be anywhere together for days since it will just feel like staring at each other for days and it would be awkward.

Why don't you go on a trip yourself? Something fun that YOU want to go see or do!

Originally Posted by Bunches

I’m not sure about my previous changes. She has referred to me as too codependent so maybe it’s that’s I’m too focused on her and not enough on myself and being on my own at times.

Originally Posted by Valeska19

Okay. So take that as truth. STOP doing anything for her. Unless is has to do with the kids - let her figure everything out on her own. This would be a 180 for you.

I agree w/Valeska...what have you done to address it?

Originally Posted by Bunches

So my son is another story. He’s 13 now about to be 14 and last year before our home fire she was pushing me to let him go live with his mom who was pushing to change custody arrangements at that time. I was pushing back until a night weeks before when my spouse admitted to a long term issue abusing pain meds. I decided I might need to consider it seeing how unstable things were at home and I had no idea. Then the house burned and we had no safe dove for him. Crammed our big family into hotels for months and then a too small apartment past that.

How did the house burn down? Your W was pushing you to not live with your son? I personally think you should focus on your son and make sure you're doing what's right for him. Sounds like he's been pushed aside and his life shaken up with all this disruption.

Bunches - You've written a lot of concerning things about your current W...severe depression, chronic hip pains, early menopause, two affairs, long term pain med abuse, you're helping to raise her 5 kids (one of whom doesn't speak to her) and yet she's pushing your own son out of the picture.

Honest question...what result are you hoping for here?

So the hospital work situation does worry me. I've had to put that one behind me because its not something I can monitor or sort. Shes a hospital worker and one of the two previous affairs was a doctor at a previous hospital. I know its easy for her to form bonds there and spend time talking with those people who 'get her' or understand how she feels easier than I do. But what can I do about that?

I'd like to spend more time with my son but there's a distance challenge. They live 3 hours away from us. I moved here with him years ago and when I met W and we got married that worked. Since then Ex W has done a lot to work on her life and even has had the chance to stop working and be a full time parent. I was always against changing custody arrangements even a little but with all the baggage here and me always working made it an obvious choice that I was being selfish with my son. I was at work most of the time he was home with everyone else and he wasn't getting enough attention and I knew something had to change. Then the house fire and it was an immediate problem. You can't just push a low functioning autistic child into a hotel room for an undefined amount of time and expect them to deal. Especially heading into last summer with no daycare options where we live (country zone). The only responsible thing I felt I could do was let him stay with his mom and I knew it would end up shifting the balance in her favor to keep him. Its not a great scenario and I hate it but I don't think I made the wrong choices for him here.

House has been fixed luckily but they had said it could be up to a year and a half, happily it only took 10 months.

To the question of giving her space.... I'd say yes and probably too much. With the house there was a lot of stress last year in bills, planning, insurance issues, builder coordination, both of us working full time and managing kids back and forth. And somewhere I supported her in going back to school. Shes always talked about wanting to further her education so we got her into online courses. This added pressure and time sink has not helped anything though. We've been too busy to do much of anything together for many month and we knew it was going to be one of those seasons. As we got back into the house though I've had nothing but issues at work causing me to be working 6 days a week a lot of weeks recently. Which barely seems to matter because she's only ever sleeping when home between school and work.

I signed up for marriage counseling, yes. I know this is a no unless brought up by the other. The last time we had to recover from an affair I stepped back and wanted her to pursue fixing this and being the one to make arrangements showing some effort. She did it but later made many comments about me not being the man who led us into working on things or putting any effort into making arrangements. I've considered this a 180 this time around but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not talking about it and she seems to be interested to go. Shes asked me multiple times about arrangements and onboarding information.

I agree with taking a trip for myself. I'm trying to set up some possible ideas. There are some things I've wanted to try which could be a real challenge for me. I need some time to research my options but it could be fun.

I wouldn't say I'm doing things for her. I'm still doing things around the house but I have kids. That only makes sense doesn't it? She continues to offer pickup up things for me still and tends to prep dinner for the family and leaves things in the fridge for healthy diet. It's like passive consideration.

As to your honest question about what I'm hoping for... that one hit home. I was thinking so hard about this and it feels like I bring so much to this marriage and I don't know what she brings anymore. I don't feel like that entitles me to just wash my hands of all of it and the 5 other kids that I very much consider a huge part of my life but I'm unsure what to hope for here.

Wow so much to unpack here.

First on her forming bounds at work. You are right, nothing you can do about that except try to get her to quit and put her in a bottle. (Sarcasm.) It doesn't matter what field she works in, there will be opportunities to meet OM. The thing that keeps a spouse from having an A is their own morals and ethics. If she has already shown this penchant then it may be a common struggle for her, and by extension, for you.

After BD there is no such thing as giving too much space. Read the pursuer-distancer dynamic. No about of distancing will cause her to NOT pursue if she changes her mind and decides to pursue. In fact, the more distance you put between the two of you the more likely (though don't get excited because it isn't a guarantee) she will be to pursue. Bunches, I continue to see a resistance in you to DB. You have to embrace the counter-intuitive nature of DBing in order to do it successful. Your intuition is your enemy.

Which leads me to marriage counseling. MC has ZERO chance of working with a spouse that is walking away. First, you setting it up breaks one of the first principles of DB: do not pressure or pursue! And I don't care what she said. Her words have little to no meaning. Especially since she said that to you pre-BD. After BD nothing the WAS said before hand matters. Even if they told you that they love you every single day leading up to BD, once BD hits that is not how they feel. This is why taking a WAS words, either before BD or after, is a fool's game. Any words before BD are meaningless because everything has change. Any words after BD are meaningless because a WAS will say whatever they feel fits their need at any given moment. So bottom line, you cannot believe a word she says, or has said.

And you are using your kids as an excuse for becoming super Husband. No one is saying that you shouldn't do your part. We are saying that you should only do your part. She is firing you as a husband, that doesn't mean try even harder to be her husband. It means give her what she wants and let her see what that means. Do you and your kids laundry. Let her do her own. Make sure you and the kids are fed, clean and in a safe, clean environment. Let her fend for herself on that front (IE do not pick up after her unless it is posing a danger to your kids).

Finally, your excuses in regard to your son rub me the wrong way. Completely. I will try to soften this but it fits your pattern of doing what you want to do and then excusing it later. I have one child. My daughter. She is in college now. It would require a prison cell, or walls reaching to the heavens, or a military army to prevent me from being a big part of my daughters. 3 hours. Autism. House fires. None of that would keep me from being a father to my child.

Bunches, my advice is simple. GET INTO IC. Use the time and money you were going to spend on MC, and get into IC. Find one that is pro-marriage, but that also is willing to tell you the hard, fast truth on where you need to improve as a person and as a husband. Bunches, last time you disappeared, got D'd, appears you didn't continue to work on yourself, and a few years later you are in a similar spot. If you do not take this as an opportunity to work on yourself you will continue to repeat this pattern. You called it "feels like failure again". Divorce is only a failure if you do not use it to learn from and improve yourself.

Originally Posted by Steve

Finally, your excuses in regard to your son rub me the wrong way. I have one child. My daughter. She is in college now. It would require a prison cell, or walls reaching to the heavens, or a military army to prevent me from being a big part of my daughters. 3 hours. Autism. House fires. None of that would keep me from being a father to my child.

I have that same gut reaction. Bunches, you've done a lot right--being the main caregiver for your son for so many years, passing him on to his mom when you got distracted by life circumstances. I have an ex family friend whose child is special needs and I get it's hard. My son had special needs for one year. I do wonder if W were not in the picture you'd have made different choices after the "mysterious house fire" (I smell smoke and a story!). E.g., moving closer to your XW so you could co-parent as a team while you figured out a workable living situation where you and son and W and W's sons lived together, or spending weekends in town with him. From the outside, it *looks* like a symbolic moment when you lost a bit of your self, prioritizing your W more, shifting more into co-dependency.

Figuring out what you'd need to have a bigger role in your son's life again may be exactly what you need to find your self anchor and get your mojo back. Besides, I bet he misses you.

Originally Posted by SteveLW

You have to embrace the counter-intuitive nature of DBing in order to do it successful. Your intuition is your enemy.

This is one of the most important things to comprehend.

Your 180s might be completely different than the next guy, but they are important. You are always going left, the next guy is always going right. The important part is learning how to identify when to go left and when to go right, and by how much. Then going straight is easy when you need to.

That is just an analogy. I could have used Black/White and shades of grey.

Pursuing/distancing.
Talking/listening.
Attraction/Seduction.
Introvert/Extrovert.
Direct/Indirect.
Verbal/Non-verbal.

Pick any area that you would like. Those are just off the top of my head.

I have no idea what your goals are, but after an interaction, you can reflect back and see if you were successful....IE I want to listen more....Did you? It has nothing to do with the other person.

Bunches - How's it going?

So I hadn't posted any updates in recent weeks. Not much has changed. Did a recent visit for S near where he lives instead of here. Finding some new norms at work which is giving me some time back. I spent a couple days out of town over the weekend and went to see some very old friends. W didn't seem to take this so well. I'm trying not to react to her reactions. Everyone seems to gauge me well that I can't seem to DB very well. Emotions hold too much sway. I'm trying.

Two weeks ago we did go to the counseling appointment we set up and there was a lot of difficulty. W did talk but it seemed so difficult for her. She talked about resentment she feels like I have toward her. We decided to take IC for follow ups but the counselor seems to want us to come again together to talk about treatment. W has since cancelled her individual appointment and took time instead to go camping with our other boys without me. At my recent IC it was suggested I'm carrying some trauma from the affairs of previous marriage and this one has made it worse.

I'm trying to figure out summer plans. I've got a lot of vacation time and if I can I'd like to plan something where I can get S away for some time if I can organize work around it.

Still going steadily to the gym and started hanging out with an old friend in my spare time.

Going to MC with a WAS is never going to work. Of course it was difficult for her, she wants out of the marriage and MC is pressure and pursuit to stay in it. And of course the MC wants to do a follow-up, it is how they make money!

IC is much better. The fact that she agreed to do IC as followups and then canceled the IC is all the proof you need to know that, quite bluntly, she has no desire to save or work on the marriage. So this is where you doubledown on DBing. GAL (sounds like you are doing fairly well here), self-improvement (More IC, less MC (in fact, no MC!), and work on emotional detachment. Your latest update shows you are still too worried and invested in what she is doing. "She canceled IC." "She is camping with our boys without me." Etc. That shows that her words and actions still have too much of an emotional impact on you, which you readily admit emotions have too much sway over you. So work through that in IC!

Remember, her only power over you is the power you give her.

Bunches,

Originally Posted by Bunches

Did a recent visit for S near where he lives instead of here.

Good! You & your S should be a priority.

Originally Posted by Bunches

I spent a couple days out of town over the weekend and went to see some very old friends.

Good! Visiting old friends is perfect GAL.

Originally Posted by Bunches

W didn't seem to take this so well. I'm trying not to react to her reactions.

Sounds like your W has a lot of resentment. I get the sense she wouldn't be cheery regardless of what you did, and I think it's good you're getting away - you two need space. Good for you for not reacting emotionally to her.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Everyone seems to gauge me well that I can't seem to DB very well. Emotions hold too much sway. I'm trying.

I don't know, this update seems alright. Spending time w/son, friends, giving space, not reacting emotionally, gym...etc.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Two weeks ago we did go to the counseling appointment we set up and there was a lot of difficulty. W did talk but it seemed so difficult for her. She talked about resentment she feels like I have toward her. We decided to take IC for follow ups but the counselor seems to want us to come again together to talk about treatment.

I agree w/Steve that MC isn't going to work if you're not both into it. Don't follow up with MC unless W is really pushing it and genuinely invested. Instead keep going to IC and focus on yourself.

Originally Posted by Bunches

W has since cancelled her individual appointment and took time instead to go camping with our other boys without me.

What did you do with her gift of time? Did you take advantage of it?

Originally Posted by Bunches

At my recent IC it was suggested I'm carrying some trauma from the affairs of previous marriage and this one has made it worse.

Seems very possible. I'd continue with IC and explore that.

Originally Posted by Bunches

I'm trying to figure out summer plans. I've got a lot of vacation time and if I can I'd like to plan something where I can get S away for some time if I can organize work around it.

Perfect. Do it!

Originally Posted by Bunches

Still going steadily to the gym and started hanging out with an old friend in my spare time.

Great! Are you seeing physical results of the gym? Feeling more in-shape, attractive, and confident?

Bunches - Perhaps nothing "major" in your update, but it seems like you're doing well...getting away and giving space, spending time with S and friends, hitting the gym, going to IC. Keep all of those up. You'll get through this!

So W starts an argument tonight to explain her frustration with me for my trip out of town. I was gone Sunday from around noon til Monday night and was back around 11. I left a message I was headed out and when I would be back, which apparently isn't the source of the argument. It's that i drove 6 hours to visit friends. According to her, too far without talking to her about it. Makes no sense to me. Just apologized that it bothered her and we left it there.

Originally Posted by Bunches

Just apologized that it bothered her and we left it there.

Why did you apologize? There is nothing to apologize for. You validate that you understand, and that's it. Don't try make any sense of it. In her state she is looking for anything to fight about. No matter what you do, you'll be wrong and cannot be right. Focus on yourself, not her reaction.

Originally Posted by Bunches

So W starts an argument tonight to explain her frustration with me for my trip out of town. I was gone Sunday from around noon til Monday night and was back around 11. I left a message I was headed out and when I would be back, which apparently isn't the source of the argument. It's that i drove 6 hours to visit friends. According to her, too far without talking to her about it. Makes no sense to me. Just apologized that it bothered her and we left it there.

Never apologize. I suggest avoiding all validation statements that start with "I am sorry....." I never liked those. "I understand you feel I should run longer trips by you." Notice, you are recognizing how she feels, but you are neither agreeing with or disagreeing with her, no making excuses or apologizing. And then remember, be the one that ends the conversation. "I understand that you feel I should run longer trips by you. I have to go, I have a lot to do."

LBSs secretly like to get sucked into these kinds of arguments. However, it is a cheeseless tunnel. Listen for a reasonable amount of time (as long as she isn't yelling or being disrespectful), then validate and end the conversation. Most LBSs get tripped up by interacting too much with the WAS.

Bunches,

Originally Posted by toughtimes180

In her state she is looking for anything to fight about. No matter what you do, you'll be wrong and cannot be right.

^This is often the case and probably true here. If you properly communicated your plans and didn't shirk any responsibilities then you have nothing to apologize for. It's likely just resentment built on her side putting you in a no-win situation.

Originally Posted by SteveLW

Listen for a reasonable amount of time (as long as she isn't yelling or being disrespectful), then validate and end the conversation.

Based off my research, I made my house a safe place to express emotions. Humans are emotional beings and there are very few safe places to vent out some emotional energy. The key is to set boundaries around the disrespect and any physical violence.

As long as I don't get sucked into the other persons emotional state, I can calmly let anyone vent their frustrations to me, even if the trigger is something I did.

I believe my relationships are better because of this. The other person feels heard and understood and feels better after getting some emotional release.