Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Dink Need advice please - 03/15/22 04:12 PM
My wife last week told me she wanted a divorce. About three years ago she said the same thing and move to a apartment for about four months. I of course was a mess and pursued her and did what ever I could to win her back. I had a affair about 13 years prior and never told a single person about it. The down side to this was that I was consumed by guilt for what I did. Then shortly after the affair ended my only brother passed away and then shortly after that my dad passed away. For like 8 years I was total detached with the marriage for the most part because of my guilt and grieving from the two deaths. She even warned me at times if something didn’t change something bad was going to happen, well it did/ she had a affair, this was in 2017. I found out and she told me she didn’t love me anymore and wanted a divorce. At this time I still had never told her about my affair but she said that I have neglected her to long and she knows that I had to have had a affair because I was so distant for years and she ask me many time and I always denied it. After I found out about her affair she again asked for the truth and I finally admitted to her about my affair. She lost it and things were bad. She stayed for a while after I found out about her affair and after finally coming clean about mine. After a while though she said she didn’t love me anymore because of the past 9 years being so emotionally void. When she moved to the apartment I was a mess, worse I have ever been in my life. I did everything wrong and she was still talking with other guy. I even offered buying a little house on a lake because she always wanted that and loved being by water. we ended up getting back together and we bought the lake house, while still having our other house. I inherited some money after my dad passed and used it to buy the lake house thinking it Would help us reconnect and work on our marriage. Now three years later she is asking for a divorce again stating she can’t get pass the past. She said she has forgiven me for the affair but can not get pass the 9 years of feeling like she did it changed her heart. The last 3 years she said she has love for me again and stated I have become the husband she always wanted now over the three years, she just can't get past these feeling from those years, it has left a hole in her heart. She said she decide to come back originally because I said i wouldn't be able to be friends with her and do stuff as family originally and she said that scared her, because I am her best friend and couldn't picture me not in her life. We have three kids 30, 27, 25 and a recent new 1st grandchild .
Also in the last 5 months her dad has passed away, and her mother had to have heart surgery, so a lot of emotional stuff going on lately. I'm at a lost of what to do if anything.
Posted By: job Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 04:19 PM
Welcome! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting for you to read.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 08:23 AM.
Me-68, D35,S34
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
The last 3 years she said she has love for me again and stated I have become the husband she always wanted now over the three years, she just can't get past these feeling from those years, it has left a hole in her heart.
Sorry you are here again Dink. Resentment is what lands most people here. You are going to have to give her time and space to burn through the big pile of resentment. Until that happens she can not and will not see you any differently. There is no timeline on how long this could take. Likely 2-5 years. Work on yourself and become the best man you can be physically, emotionally, financially and spiritually.
Originally Posted by Dink
She said she decide to come back originally because I said i wouldn't be able to be friends with her and do stuff as family originally and she said that scared her, because I am her best friend and couldn't picture me not in her life.
Stick to your guns. W I can not just be friends with you.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 05:05 PM
The best thing you can do, believe it or not, is to let her go. When a WAS comes to you and says they want a divorce, the best course of action is to say "Ok. I don't want a divorce, but I will not stand in your way."

Pressure and pursuit rarely works and usually just pushes them out the door even more quickly. Please read the post that job posted. It is pure gold in there. I would also seek out sandi's threads and writings. Her guidance during my sitch really helped me a lot.

DBing tactics are easy to learn. GAL. 180 and self-improvements. Detachment. Giving her time and space. They are extremely difficult to put into practice, remain consistent to, and not to make mistakes along the way. That is why job's post and all of the reading and links are so good because it will point you to real people on this forum that struggled with all of this before you.

You haven't said much about how you have handled this latest situation, though you told us a lot about what happened 3 years ago. How have you been dealing with her latest pronouncement?
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 06:11 PM
Dink,

I read through your previous thread (Too far gone) from May 2019 and this one. Perhaps one of the moderators could link or combine them to give folks a better history?

8 years being very distant and emotionally unavailable to your W is a really long time, and her still being in touch with her AP clouds the situation as well. Unfortunately you can't change either of those.

Originally Posted by LH19
Work on yourself and become the best man you can be physically, emotionally, financially and spiritually.
^This is the crux of it. The most basic important advice. All you can do moving forward is work on yourself. Don't delay. Join a gym today, start reading about relationships and attraction...etc.

Originally Posted by LH19
Stick to your guns. W I can not just be friends with you.
I also agree with LH. Don't give her a safety net and ease her transition away from you.

Hang in there. You'll get through this.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 07:49 PM
She told me a week ago she wanted the divorce. We had still been in the same house this past week and things for the most part we pretty normal no much more talk about it and we even cuddled and had sex during the week. She kept calling me babe and such but I knew from the few
Times we talked about it this week that she was set in her decision. I came home yesterday and told I would move to or other place for the time being to give her space as we go forward with divorce and figure things out and when to tell the kids. We both cried a lot and after about a hour or so I left. I have not spoke with her today
Posted By: Traveler Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I came home yesterday and told I would move to or other place for the time being to give her space as we go forward with divorce and figure things out and when to tell the kids. We both cried a lot and after about a hour or so I left. I have not spoke with her today
Did you bring your kids with you? If not, return a.s.a.p. and only leave after an attorney says it's safe to do so. Abandoning your kids and home could have long-term consequences for your custody, relationships, finances, etc. You can spend daytime away if you need space.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
She told me a week ago she wanted the divorce. We had still been in the same house this past week and things for the most part we pretty normal no much more talk about it and we even cuddled and had sex during the week.
So you a weight has been lifted off her shoulders. If you apply no pressure this may continue but may not be good for your detachment.
Originally Posted by Dink
She kept calling me babe and such but I knew from the few times we talked about it this week that she was set in her decision.
Yeah she has been likely planning this for years. She is not going to change her mind anytime soon.
Originally Posted by Dink
I came home yesterday and told I would move to or other place for the time being to give her space as we go forward with divorce and figure things out and when to tell the kids.
AS CW said not a good idea. Stay in the house but be out whenever she is at home.
Originally Posted by Dink
We both cried a lot and after about a hour or so I left. I have not spoke with her today
Stick to NC accept for when arranging things for the kids. She needs space and then more space and in case you didn't understand it she needs space.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
She told me a week ago she wanted the divorce. We had still been in the same house this past week and things for the most part we pretty normal no much more talk about it and we even cuddled and had sex during the week. She kept calling me babe and such but I knew from the few
Times we talked about it this week that she was set in her decision. I came home yesterday and told I would move to or other place for the time being to give her space as we go forward with divorce and figure things out and when to tell the kids. We both cried a lot and after about a hour or so I left. I have not spoke with her today
It's interesting to me you two had sex. Just my anecdotal observation, but it seems like that's more common on here when it's the man who's walking away and the woman wants to keep things together than when the woman is walking away and more resolved in the decision.

Originally Posted by Traveler
Did you bring your kids with you? If not, return a.s.a.p. and only leave after an attorney says it's safe to do so. Abandoning your kids and home could have long-term consequences for your custody, relationships, finances, etc. You can spend daytime away if you need space.
His kids are older (30, 27, 25) so custody shouldn't be a factor, but definitely agree be wary of leaving the house without a written separation agreement in terms of the finances.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 08:55 PM
I wonder if the death of her father 5 months ago made her feel more like …my time is limited and I deserve to be happy and is a emotional decision? From what she tells me is that it about not being able to get over the years where I was unfortunately emotional available for her and she is a very needed woman to boot.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I wonder if the death of her father 5 months ago made her feel more like …my time is limited and I deserve to be happy and is a emotional decision? From what she tells me is that it about not being able to get over the years where I was unfortunately emotional available for her and she is a very needed woman to boot.
It’s absolutely an emotional decision. It’s possible the death of her father helped triggered it. Unfortunately it changes nothing.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 09:07 PM
She offered to go to our other house which is only 30 minutes away. It is in the town where both work . I told her I would stay there so that I could work on stuff to get it ready. I don’t believe she truly wants a divorce because she love the family aspect we have and was a issue last time we separated as well. she wants to be friend and do stuff as a family, when I told that wouldn't happen last time, she said that was part of the reason she came back because how it was affecting the kids and me and the family. This time she still wants all that but said she hasn't been able to move past the years of my not being available and emotionally not present for some many years. Though she has love for me know after these past three years it currant hasn't obviously filled the hole that
She says is still in her heart.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 09:11 PM
Having sex and cuddling every night after she told me she wanted a divorce a week ago was
Been difficult to read but she now says it was a mistake because it probably made me think everything was ok and she changed her mind when she had not.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 09:17 PM
Yep. I would take it as a sign that she may be attracted to you agin down the road.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/15/22 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
She told me a week ago she wanted the divorce. We had still been in the same house this past week and things for the most part we pretty normal no much more talk about it and we even cuddled and had sex during the week. She kept calling me babe and such but I knew from the few
Times we talked about it this week that she was set in her decision. I came home yesterday and told I would move to or other place for the time being to give her space as we go forward with divorce and figure things out and when to tell the kids. We both cried a lot and after about a hour or so I left. I have not spoke with her today

Dink, I would let her go to the other home. You aren't the one that wants a D, why should you be the one to leave?

Yes I'm sure in her mind it is made up. But then it was 3 years ago when she moved out too. They are always sure it is what they want, until they aren't. Just start DBing and l let her figure out her own crap. I'd also stop crying with her. Emotionally even is where you want to be. Read up on emotional detachment.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 05:32 AM
Hi Dink,

I assume you are older (around my age) based off the age of your kids.

Read as many of these as you can:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712


Change the way you interact with her. Change the way you behave when you are around her. This will change the way she thinks of you. Do not let her emotions effect yours. Become amazing. Do not let fear control you. Use your logic. Lead her through this process. And most important, do not be boring.

Lots of wise people here, sift through as much as you can and make a plan on how to be a man only a fool would leave.

R2C
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 11:30 AM
I am struggling with it because things were a lot better for the most part with us but recently I had dropped ball,a few time by being tired a few nights and not being able to stay awake when she need to talk about stuff. I apologized but unfortunately it I believe brought up the past resentment and caused thing to trigger again.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I am struggling with it because things were a lot better for the most part with us but recently I had dropped ball,a few time by being tired a few nights and not being able to stay awake when she need to talk about stuff. I apologized but unfortunately it I believe brought up the past resentment and caused thing to trigger again.

This smacks of putting her needs (to talk) above your needs (for rest). Putting her needs above your own is a great way to become her best friend. It is an awful way to command her respect and be the man she needs you to be. It is a sure sign of Nice Guy Syndrome. Have you ever read No More Mr. Nice Guy? I would suggest giving it a read.

"Nicing" her back or to get her to stay is not in your best interest long-term. If you've turned into a Mr. Nice GUy after she left 3 years ago then all you were doing is setting yourself for a future (now the most recent) BD.

I did go back and read your last thread. You made one post then disappeared from the forum. So it begs the question, what work did you do after she came back? What work did you demand from her? Dink, I can relate to all of this because I made a similar mistake in my MR. in 2005 we had our first situation. She immediately said she didn't want a divorce and she went into a resistant recovery mode. I became Mr. Stepford Husband. After a while that wasn't sustainable, and since we didn't do the work necessary to really heal the MR, 12 years later we were right back into a similar situation, this time she said she wanted a D.

Have you read Divorce Busting and/or Divorce Remedy?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I am struggling with it because things were a lot better for the most part with us but recently I had dropped ball, a few time by being tired a few nights and not being able to stay awake when she need to talk about stuff.
Yeah so that's why no matter what you do right now it isn't going to be sustainable. Relationships typically end for one of two reasons. She isn't attracted to you anymore or she doesn't see a happy future with you. So the best thing you can do right now is let her go, wish her well and go out and live your best life. That is the only winning strategy. Time and space is the only cure for these two reasons. If you go live a kick a$$ life and she wants to comeback you can revisit at that time.

Originally Posted by Dink
I apologized but unfortunately it I believe brought up the past resentment and caused thing to trigger again.
Yes! Everything you do wrong will cause this to happen. She needs to burn through the resentment which will take time and space away from you. It could take a year or maybe 10 but eventually it will happen. Until then a happy secure reconciliation is not in the cards. For you to reconcile she has to:

1) see you as someone of extremely high value
2) views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) She's willing to work to win you

Without those three things, she's going to walk again down the line, because she really doesn't have the motivation to work with you to change anything, your relationship will keep seeking the same equilibrium it has had because of how your personalities and issues come together.

Given that you have to make things worse before they can possibly get better, divorce may not be a bad choice, which is to say that you don't continue to comingle your lives (aside from the kids) and you are free to live your own lives.

That way she can really see if that way of life is better or worse for her. Prepare yourself that in the beginning she will view it as better, mainly because she'll find new found freedom and has convinced herself that its what she wants. It may take six months or five years for reality to set in, but it certainly will. Our good friend SteveLW was posted that his research shows that 90% of WWs will eventually want to reconcile. The real question becomes will you take her back.

My advice would be to lean in to what she wants, agree to divorce, and work productively with her on the plan with the presentation that you're on board and plan to enjoy this change also. That's going to make her wonder. You want her to wonder what you're thinking, and from this point forward you shouldn't tell her anything about your frame of mind -- nothing at all.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 03:10 PM
The other thing is she has a lot of health issues to boot, and can cause her to have depression because of it.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/16/22 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
The other thing is she has a lot of health issues to boot, and can cause her to have depression because of it.
No doubt she's depressed. Most WS are.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/17/22 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by LH19
1) see you as someone of extremely high value
2) views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) She's willing to work to win you

4) She has to FEEL like she has lost you.
5) She has to FEEL like she made a mistake.

There is more that can be added. Do the work to understand this and make it happen.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 07:32 PM
Front what I can understand from her, it’s the past when I was so distant and emotionally available that she struggles with and can’t seem to get past and has been causing he mental health to be so bad and she can’t get pass it. The last 5 years she I couldn’t have taken better care of her and no one could have did a better job. I have been the best in the past 5 years it has nothing to do with the last 5 years . She says I just can’t seem to make myself whole again after all the pain from those previous years where I wasn’t really available for her.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
Front what I can understand from her, it’s the past when I was so distant and emotionally available that she struggles with and can’t seem to get past and has been causing he mental health to be so bad and she can’t get pass it.

When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.

As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.

If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.

Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a year’s long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"

Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, fort an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.

Over time, you have *trained each other* what to expect from the other. She knows how you will react to any given situation, what you will say, how you will act, and she has decided that's not compatible with what she wants.

If you decide you don't want that either, and decide to make a change for yourself, initially she'll think you're just doing it as a gambit to get her back and as soon as she lets her guard down, you'll revert to who you "really are" in terms of who you've trained her that you are.

In order to turn this around she needs to *fully believe* that you've changed, and that you're not doing it just to get her back.

How do you convince her of that?

(1) Repetition, lots and lots of repetition in terms of reacting differently, acting differently, than you have historically.

(2) Acting differently when no one is looking

(3) Finding a life for your new self that doesn't require her. That's the only way you make it credible that your changes are for you. She won't even see them until she believes that you don't need her.

Originally Posted by Dink
The last 5 years she I couldn’t have taken better care of her and no one could have did a better job. I have been the best in the past 5 years it has nothing to do with the last 5 years .
This is good. Years from now when she looks back she will remember more of the good times then bad.
Originally Posted by Dink
She says I just can’t seem to make myself whole again after all the pain from those previous years where I wasn’t really available for her.
It's not that she can't it's she doesn't want to make herself whole again.

I forget. Is there another male involved?
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 09:41 PM
No other male as far as I know.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 09:45 PM
She was really down last night says she hates her self, say I am so sorry and absolutely hate myself for this. I just can’t stand myself.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
No other male as far as I know.
Do you have access to her phone? Does she keep it guarded?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/18/22 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
She was really down last night says she hates her self, say I am so sorry and absolutely hate myself for this. I just can’t stand myself.
What was your response?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/19/22 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by Dink
Front what I can understand from her, it’s the past when I was so distant and emotionally available that she struggles with and can’t seem to get past and has been causing he mental health to be so bad and she can’t get pass it. The last 5 years she I couldn’t have taken better care of her and no one could have did a better job. I have been the best in the past 5 years it has nothing to do with the last 5 years . She says I just can’t seem to make myself whole again after all the pain from those previous years where I wasn’t really available for her.

Dink, there is a famous line from the Bon Jovi song "I'll Be There For You". It goes, "I can promise you tomorrow, but I can't buy back yesterday." There is absolutely no way you can no anything about the past. What I don't understand is why you're continuing to have these discussions with her. Remember, the first rule is DBing is never start relationship talks. And if she does you listen and validate, and be the one to end the conversation. "I have things I need to go do." Then walk away.

I've never heard of a LBS discussing their way out of their WAS wanting a divorce.

I've asked before, have you read Divorce Remedy or Divorce Busting? You are going to have to change your dynamic with her to have a chance at turning this around. But please stop discussing things with her. She keeps saying she can't get over the past, she certainly isn't going to if you keep discussing it with her.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/19/22 02:35 AM
Dink,

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Dink
Originally Posted by LH19
I forget. Is there another male involved?
No other male as far as I know.
Do you have access to her phone? Does she keep it guarded?
Not sure I understand considering what you wrote in your opening post on the thread:

Originally Posted by Dink
She even warned me at times if something didn’t change something bad was going to happen, well it did/ she had a affair, this was in 2017.
Originally Posted by Dink
After I found out about her affair she again asked for the truth and I finally admitted to her about my affair.
Originally Posted by Dink
I did everything wrong and she was still talking with other guy.
You explicitly said there was another man. Are you saying that ended and you don't believe there is another man now? Considering the history between you two and timing of the latest BD I wouldn't discount another man, and it's perhaps even likely the same man got back in touch. I'd be very curious the answer to LH's question regarding her phone.
Posted By: MLCxH Re: Need advice please - 03/20/22 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by Dink
Front what I can understand from her, it’s the past when I was so distant and emotionally available that she struggles with and can’t seem to get past and has been causing he mental health to be so bad and she can’t get pass it. The last 5 years she I couldn’t have taken better care of her and no one could have did a better job. I have been the best in the past 5 years it has nothing to do with the last 5 years . She says I just can’t seem to make myself whole again after all the pain from those previous years where I wasn’t really available for her.

Her words mean nothing. WAS will rewrite history and provide justifications for their actions that are convenient to them. There is a good possibility that this may be the reason but again there is a good possibility it is not. Even if this was the case, 5 years is a long time to act on it unless there are other factors that reopened old wounds.

Whatever the case, this is in the past and cannot be changed now. Don't focus on her reasons. If there is something you can do to change and become a better person, focus on that instead.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.

As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.

If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.

Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a year’s long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"

Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, fort an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.

Over time, you have *trained each other* what to expect from the other. She knows how you will react to any given situation, what you will say, how you will act, and she has decided that's not compatible with what she wants.

If you decide you don't want that either, and decide to make a change for yourself, initially she'll think you're just doing it as a gambit to get her back and as soon as she lets her guard down, you'll revert to who you "really are" in terms of who you've trained her that you are.

In order to turn this around she needs to *fully believe* that you've changed, and that you're not doing it just to get her back.

How do you convince her of that?

(1) Repetition, lots and lots of repetition in terms of reacting differently, acting differently, than you have historically.

(2) Acting differently when no one is looking

(3) Finding a life for your new self that doesn't require her. That's the only way you make it credible that your changes are for you. She won't even see them until she believes that you don't need her.


LH is a wise DBer and it is important that you understand the words above.

Time and space are your friend right now. Focus on your own beliefs and behaviors and make positive changes. There is a better version of you buried in there...let that person shine through during this most difficult time.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 06:55 PM
I just found out Friday there is indeed another man…..so that is the end for me
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I just found out Friday there is indeed another man…..so that is the end for me
Sorry to hear Dink. Very predictable. Affairs are acts of anger -- she has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since she's avoidant, she hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, or that you deserve her resentment, it could be completely irrational, but the point is that it exists.

Once people have affairs, they *initially* feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.

So if she's not a bad person, then the reason he did a bad thing must have been because *you* drove her to it, you made her do it, and therefore *you* are the bad person and she is the victim.

Once she gets there, she'll seek any evidence to reinforce his viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why she will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because she's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.

Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I just found out Friday there is indeed another man…..so that is the end for me

Sorry Dink. Unfortunately, 9 times out 10 this is the case. The good news is that it changes nothing that you should have already been doing. Just keep focusing on yourself.
Posted By: Traveler Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by Dink
I just found out Friday there is indeed another man…..so that is the end for me

Sorry Dink. Unfortunately, 9 times out 10 this is the case. The good news is that it changes nothing that you should have already been doing. Just keep focusing on yourself.
I'm Sorry Dink. You must be feeling a lot. Honor that by working through it in your journal, here, or with your therapist. XW is no longer your support network, and raging at her isn't going to make your divorce go quicker or more favorably.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 09:01 PM
Sorry Dink. That's awful. I know exactly how you're feeling, as do many folks on this board. Hang in there. You WILL get through it and be better.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/21/22 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I just found out Friday there is indeed another man…..

Two of my mantras:
I do not want to be with a women who does not want to be with me.
I do not share my woman with other men.

Create your own mantra list as you go through this process.


One of the top things for you to address is your resentment and blame. Forgiveness is extremely important for your growth. Feel the anger, morn the loss of the relationship. Keep processing everything. Feel the emotions. Learn to express them in a healthy way. Do not let your emotions control you. Control your emotions.


Make a plan and execute the plan.
Posted By: Kind18 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 06:07 AM
I’m so sorry, Dink.

I know it’s not much consolation - but many have been through this before you, and many will after today. It will be okay one day, it just isn’t okay right now.

In the depths of my darkest times, when people told me I would be okay and that I’d be better off but just couldn’t see it - that didn’t make me feel any better.

But 2 years on, I’m incredibly happy. My crazy’s affair fizzled, and yet I can think of nothing worse than being with someone as manipulative and crazy. I look on with puzzlement and almost a sense of feeling sorry for her.

I know you can’t see that right now - but one day, you’ll come back and read this post, and understand why today is potentially the start of the happiest phase of your life.

You need to get back to basics with a good IC, GAL activities and exercise your body physically like you’ve never done before.

The night is darkest just before the dawn.

Sending lots of love!
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 11:50 AM
I made a huge mistake after finding out about other new guy on Friday I went to his place where she was I find her vehicle and blew up. The thing is The night before,she texted me to see if I was ok and I said I will be fine. She has been the one last week reaching out to me.We texted a little back and fourth and she said I am so sorry about this and absolutely hate myself, meaning I assume about wanting a divorce. Then later said I can't stand myself for this. At this time I was positive about another guy but was beginning to wonder as when earlier in week I confronted her about some one else she said she had not been talking etc to anyone. I then said
Don’t be so hard on your self. I know that you believe there has to be some one better out there for you that will take care of you and fulfill you in the ways I didn’t, or couldn’t . Without the past hurt I caused. To which replied You are completely wrong. You could not have taken better care of me. No one could do a better job. And I don’t think anyone can or will fulfill me any more. You have been the best in the past 5 years. It has nothing to do with any of that. I just can’t seem to make myself whole after all the pain and detestation I felt before those 5 years.Then she said I think it might be better for everyone if I just wasn’t here anymore. I said everything is going to be fine and I am here for you After that ...it scared me, because 4 years earlier she tried to OD on pills and I had to take her to the ER. I called her and talked to her, but then I eventually went to the house cause I was scared to have her be alone not knowing what could happen. When I got there she was lying in bed and I layer down by her and she said I told you I was fine, and I said well after what happened a few years ago I was willing to take the chance. I ended up staying the night with her sand she laid her head on me and we went to sleep., and I got up in the morning and went to work as did she.
I didn't talk to her on Friday after we left Friday morning for work and was still worried but left her alone. That night which was Friday I was at our other house were I stay currently and at about 4 am my ring door bell went off because a animal went thru the yard. When I opened the app I noticed her vehicle wasn't home and it worried me. I previously seen a guys name in her Facebook messenger app I was a little suspicious about and he was from the town where we work and and so I google his address and drove by and her car was there. I freaked out and started honking my horn at like 6 am and she came out in a night shirt.
I was so pissed. All she said was I told you I wanted a divorce. I left and went back home.
Later she texted me because I tried call her friend who she has been talking to and the she texted me a said leave her friend out of this, this is between you and me. I said you are right, maybe things would be better if I just was here any more, a play on words she used the night before. She then texted back you know that's not true. You should call your sister or someone to talk to, im not the one you want to talk to about this. I then texted her, You told me you weren’t talking with anyone and this has been bugging you for a while because of the 9 years. Then you walk out in a nightshirt at a strangers house . I could not believe it . To which she replied I can understand that. I definitely did not handle things correctly. You may not believe this, but I was trying to spare your feelings. AND it is about the those past years years and how I can’t get over it and how it has changed me. I then sent a long winded text basically saying that she has to take responsibility for her self and her own mental health and well being and get back to counseling and that a new man is not going to fix her problems. I said in the last 5 years I have did everything in our marriage
To take the stress of you and and allow you to work on getting better mentally With the past and with all your physical medical stuff. That's why she stayed I have been the best the last 5 years.
I said you have to quit blaming me for everything wrong in your life. Yes I hurt you and was emotionally unavailable during the past years but I have totally changed and you have admitted it yourself. I understand younstill struggle getting over those years but you have done nothing to work thru it with counseling and stuff, its just easier to blame me for everything. I said you think find another man is going to be the quick fix answer for and it not. My job is not to make you happy, my job is to supplement your own happiness. I said the woman I saw come out in the night shirt is the woman I know and the mother of our children.to which she replied... You know what you did to me for those years is called mental abuse, right? And you are continuing with that mental abuse now. I wonder how anyone who heard my story would feel about you. That’s the reason why I’m not the Michelle you married . That is the last contact we have had and that was Saturday
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 12:30 PM
Dink that was a rough read. You are both extremely manipulative and broken and you need time and space from one another. For a really long time. When a woman is done and she is clearly done, it takes a really long time to come around. Years not weeks. If you truly love her then set her free.

I am sorry. Sometimes in life we learn tough lessons.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 01:04 PM
Dink,

I understand your emotions and what you're going through. I've been there - putting the kid 1yo and 4yo kids to bed while my ExW "worked late" with her coworker; waking up at 3am to sneakily read through their text messages from the previous day. It's awful. Her behaviors are immoral and wrong, and you have every right to be hurt and angry.

The thing is, as difficult as it is, the confrontations and reasonings and the 6am car horn sessions outside OM's house are not going to help. They may feel good in the moment but will leave you empty and worse off in the long run.

You're spinning, and that's understandable. Take a breath, go to counseling, start walking/running/working out. It's extremely difficult but try to put your focus 100% on YOU and not HER. That's the best way to get you feeling better and moving forward.

Hang in there. Keeping engaged here and talking to us with help too.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 01:16 PM
To top it off yesterday she sent a message to our family group chat (me, her the kids and spouses)
That her 100 year old grandma fell and fractured her hip, and we still haven’t told kids about the divorce. Her grandma is having surgery today and I hope everything goes well and she pulls thru, as this could be a even more awkward time if not
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 01:24 PM
Dink I would wait until one of you are moving out before you tell the kids.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 01:36 PM
Dink, I am going to speak frank here, so if you are not up for some frankness then just skip this post.

You are not DBing. You came to a forum called Divorce Busting, where we gave you advice related to how to handle this kind of thing. Instead you went on pure emotion, instinct and what comes natural to LBSs. I can assure you that emotion, instinct and what comes natural will get you to D faster than anything else.

You sent a short message saying that there was another man and you were done. Then you send a long message about confronting her, following her, and tracking her with your Ring doorbell. (Sorry, I was where you are at one point, but whether an animal tripped it or not, you looked for her vehicle.)

You broke so many DBing rules in how you handled this. First, you had an R talk with her. Then you used her comment about "better to not be here" (a very common statement by WWs by the way) as an excuse to go spend the night with her. Then you tracked her to OM's place, and confronted her. (Another 2x4, sitting out front blowing your horn? Really?) Then you committed the biggest mistake by point out to her all of the changes you made. You realize that when you do that, point to your changes, it immediately makes a WS believe that you are only doing that to manipulate them BACK to the marriage, right? "Look how good I have become!" They hear "I am changing just to get you back, and once you are back I will revert back to the way I was!"

WWs always always always justifiy their actions with the OM by saying "I told you I wanted a D." Or "From my perspective the marriage was/is already over." Or some variation thereof. That is why confronting, begging, pleading, using logic, etc rarely ever works. They fall back to the stance of "the marriage is over, I can do whatever I want". Better to NOT confront, beg, plead, use logic etc. The better tact to have taken would have been to drive by, confirm your suspicions by seeing her car. And going home. Next time she reached out you could say "I know what is really going on."

Then no matter how hard she presses you do not tell her WHAT you know, or HOW you know it. Only that you know. Then you go out and live your best life! GAL like a madman. Continue to cement your changes to the best version of yourself by BEING that person all the time, and getting into IC to hold yourself accountable. And detaching from her emotionally. Reread cadet's/job's first response and learn what that looks like.

You HAVE to change your dynamic with her in order to have any shot at getting her to change her mind. In fact, the best way to get her to change her mind is to fully embrace her desire to D. As the saying goes, you will never look more attractive to her as you will be walking away. Maybe you do not want to reconcile anymore after this? That is up to you. If that is the case, ignore this entire post. But I will say, that the actions you took in your last post sure indicate that you want to fight for her.

Finally, STOP talking. If you take no other advice please consider taking the advice to stop talking to her about all of this. A) you cannot believe a word she says B) the more you talk the more you break DBing rules C) no one has ever talked their way out of what they've acted their way into. Talk is cheap. Take action (preferably the ones I've laid out above) and stop trying to change her mind with words because it is not, and never will, work to convince her that she is in the wrong.

Dink, finally, I know this is tough. I get it. Everyone on this board has been where you have been to some degree or another. But it is always better to THINK about your actions before taking them. If it helps, post here BEFORE acting, and get this feedback first. A card laid is a card played in this game, you cannot undo what you've already done. Better to hear first what to expect rather than learn the hard way.

Oh, and one last thing I just remembered. The other reason confronting the way you did is a bad idea is because WWs have a tendency to make things seem worse than they were. She is already accusing you (false as it may be) of mental abuse. Do not give her the ammo to make even bigger false accusations. This forum has seen WWs that were more than willing to accuse an innocent LBH of physical abuse. Do not dismiss this as impossible, it certainly could get to that point for her to justify her actions. "I went to OM's house because I was scared about what your father might do to me while I was alone!" It becomes a he said-she said proposition at that point. So be careful.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 01:50 PM
Dink - Do you kids know about the affair and/or potential divorce? They're older (25, 27, & 30) plus a grandkid so not clear if they're living with you and W or moved out?

SteveLW gives great advice. Read his post above a couple times.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 02:32 PM
The kids no nothing about my long ago affair, or her two in the past 5 years . In response to SteveLW I understand and agree with what you are saying and agree. Now I have this internal turmoil. Because of the way I handle things. I knew I shouldn’t off but anger took me over. As far as the implied ( it would probably better for everyone if I wasn’t here) I was scared. The first time it happened was about 3 years ago. We live in Michigan and her and I took a trip to Nashville to get away. While we were there we argued after a night of drinks when we got back to our hotel. We both had quite a few drink. When we got back to the hotel we were still arguing a little and she went into the bathroom. She was in there quite a while when I finally knocked on door and she said I will be out in a minute. When she came out she set her phone on night stand and lauds down. I said what is going on and she said something like you won’t have to worry it any longer. I said what..what did you do and she wouldn’t say anything. I went it to the bathroom and the was a pill bottle open with pills spilled out on counter. I went back and said did you take a bunch a pills and she said don’t worry about . I was panicking ask her how many she took she would answer. I picked up her phone and she had sent the or four messages to different friends of her saying she loved them and to tell my kids I love them. I freaked and called the front desk and they came up
And I said should we call a ambulance and they said it would probably be quicker to take a Uber to the hospital as it was only a few miles away, so that’s what I did. We made it to Vanderbilt Hospital in Nashville and she was admitted and they ran test on her and ask her questions, which because she was drunk was a little challenging. To top it off we had a flight the following in back to Michigan.
While they worked working with her, a psychiatric type doctor want to talk with me in a private room and was asking me if she has ever done anything like this before or talk about anything like this before, because they may want to keep,her a few days to make sure everything is ok with her.
I told them I was really wasn’t aware of anything . in the morning after she sobered up, they took us to a room. When we were alone she kept apologizing for what she did and I told her that they have been questioning me about if she had ever tried something like this before which she said no, and I said they may want to keep us here a few more days to just make sure she is in the right mind, and she said she just wanted to go back home. We did have a flight in the morning as well.
I had another person ask to speak with me again, and the a separate person went in with her to talk to her. This second person just basically asked me the same stuff the first person did, which I told the, the same stuff. When I was done they let me go back in with her and they said the would let us know in a few hours whether they were going to release her or not. Well they finally came back and said they were going to allows us to leave but that she had to make sure to contact her counselor when we arrived back home….so you can see a little why I was concerned. With all that being said Steve, everything else you said is correct and I know I definitely screwed up and regret it.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 03:07 PM
Please understand, I didn't post that to berate you, because you can't do anything to change it. I posted it to try to get you to see that you need to change things moving forward. Control your reactions, and try to stick to good DBing principles.

It is your situation, you get to decide. We are hear to get you to think before acting. But that is up to you.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 03:17 PM
I totally understand where you were coming from Steve, I appreciate your honest feed back and you are totally right. I just was trying to give a little more back ground on the whole situation . I appreciate everyone on these forums.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 04:43 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
The kids no nothing about my long ago affair, or her two in the past 5 years .
Do they have any idea your marriage is on the rocks, or will it blindside them? I agree w/LH btw...don't go broadcasting it. The truth will come out in time anyway.

Originally Posted by Dink
Now I have this internal turmoil. Because of the way I handle things. I knew I shouldn’t off but anger took me over.
Originally Posted by Dink
With all that being said Steve, everything else you said is correct and I know I definitely screwed up and regret it.

Everyone here has made mistakes in the way they handle their sitch. You can't change the past, you can only use it as a learning opportunity and adjust going forward.

Originally Posted by Dink
I went it to the bathroom and the was a pill bottle open with pills spilled out on counter. I went back and said did you take a bunch a pills and she said don’t worry about . I was panicking ask her how many she took she would answer. I picked up her phone and she had sent the or four messages to different friends of her saying she loved them and to tell my kids I love them. I freaked and called the front desk and they came up
The Nashville story about the pills and hospital sounds extremely serious. That must have been scary. Did you and your W dig into why she tried to kill herself?

Originally Posted by Dink
Well they finally came back and said they were going to allows us to leave but that she had to make sure to contact her counselor when we arrived back home…
Did she follow up w/a counselor? And, did she continue with one or did it just stop?

Originally Posted by LH19
Work on yourself and become the best man you can be physically, emotionally, financially and spiritually.
Focus on what LH19 said earlier in the thread. What is your plan for focusing on yourself?
Posted By: Core Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 04:45 PM
Hi Dink,

I am so sorry you are going through this. The immense pain, the uncertainty and the turbulence of the hellish rollercoaster of the process is one the forum knows well and its painful knowing you are living it. I'm not the best to give advice of the process, so I won't at the moment. I broke rules left and right. I am here to say I feel you, brother; and if you want to come out of this intact and better than you started then the wise advice of the veterans here is your ticket.

You've heard this before - you will get through this. It's almost impossible to feel that right now or believe it but it is the truth and the reality. How well you get through this and how well you take care of Dink, is up to you. Vent here, drop your emotions here, to have more peace and clarity of thinking there.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 07:00 PM
As far as I know the kids don’t really have any clue things are where they are currently, but the really didn’t last time either. We really didn’t discuss the Nashville much but she did got to a counselor after for a little bit. As far as Nashville I can only speculate . She now says she stayed with me after I finally told her about my affair that was back in like 2009 because she didn’t want to tear apart the family, but she was also in a emotional affair at the time and that she was always putting others happiness before her own. Maybe she felt trapped or she has other mental issues im just not aware. She has told me in the past that she was molested by a babysitter when she was young as well.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 07:02 PM
Also I believe she had daddy issues growing, and with the recent passing of her father I think that is affecting her now as well, because when she told me just recently she wanted a divorce she said we only have so much time to be happy. And yes that is true, but she is also actively in a emotional affair .
Posted By: LH19 Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
Also I believe she had daddy issues growing, and with the recent passing of her father I think that is affecting her now as well, because when she told me just recently she wanted a divorce she said we only have so much time to be happy. And yes that is true, but she is also actively in a emotional affair .
Uuuummm based on what happened the other night I would say it is more than an emotional affair.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 07:25 PM
I agree it’s move to PA
Posted By: Traveler Re: Need advice please - 03/22/22 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I agree it’s move to PA
Wow--just caught up! I see you've had some setbacks--she's having a physical affair (I'm sorry--that must be incredibly painful), in your anger you tried to control her and tell her what she "needs" to do (I know what I do when someone tries to make me do something), and now you (not a mental health professional) are focused on diagnosing her -isms.

Ready to dust yourself off and focus back on the GAL/Self-Improvement track to boost your chances both of moving on successfully solo, with someone else, or getting another shot with this lady if you want it?

We all have rough days, weeks, years. You've got this. wink
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/23/22 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by Dink
I made a huge mistake
We all have. The best you can do is learn from it. Learn from our mistakes and successes as well. No need to reinvent the wheel.


You only have control over yourself. Even that is hard to do. Try controlling what someone else does....almost impossible. Set her free.


Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2923056


We are here for you.

R2C
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 03:13 AM
So I texted her and said we need to tell the kids this weekend we are getting divorced and she said we can meet tomorrow to discuss how we want to do it. I then said, this would of been much easier
Telling the if last weekend didn’t happen, to which she replied I know how you feel, I felt that way most of our marriage…. So this conversation when we meet tomorrow should be fun yes I know the hurt I caused in the past but the last five years were pretty good. She told me she wanted a divorce
And I said ok, not knowing really about other man and as I wrote prior I lost it when I found her at
Other man’s house. Her tone had no resemblance of any regret, or compassion what she did, just now I know how she felt. It’s just sad . I at least have shown compassion and apologized foe my hurt from way back. She is definitely a wayward spouse. Bitter to the end even though this was her
Who did it
Posted By: MLCxH Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 05:09 AM
Originally Posted by Dink
So I texted her and said we need to tell the kids this weekend we are getting divorced and she said we can meet tomorrow to discuss how we want to do it. I then said, this would of been much easier
Telling the if last weekend didn’t happen, to which she replied I know how you feel, I felt that way most of our marriage…. So this conversation when we meet tomorrow should be fun yes I know the hurt I caused in the past but the last five years were pretty good. She told me she wanted a divorce
And I said ok, not knowing really about other man and as I wrote prior I lost it when I found her at
Other man’s house. Her tone had no resemblance of any regret, or compassion what she did, just now I know how she felt. It’s just sad . I at least have shown compassion and apologized foe my hurt from way back. She is definitely a wayward spouse. Bitter to the end even though this was her
Who did it

When you talk to the kids, keep your personal emotions and bias out of the picture. Resist the temptation to blame your WW or show her in a negative light. Focus on what is right for the kids and be in the right frame of mind.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 10:26 AM
I totally agree with what you have said and i definitely will put all the recent hurt behind for now when telling the kids. They are my main priority going forward. As I have learned I can only control myself and my emotions. This will,be the second time in 3 years we will be telling them this news.
Not that it changes anything but i have this pit in my stomach that she is going to hugely regret this
When she has cleared from her fog…maybe im wrong just a feeling. I’m much stronger this go around than I was last time.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 12:50 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
So I texted her and said we need to tell the kids this weekend we are getting divorced and she said we can meet tomorrow to discuss how we want to do it.
Do you want a divorce? I can certainly understand if you did considering her PA, but got the sense you did not, in which case the board generally recommends not initiating R talks with your spouse or discussions like this.

Originally Posted by Dink
I then said, this would of been much easier Telling the if last weekend didn’t happen,
This comment has the sound of blame and pressure in it, which is not recommended.

Originally Posted by Dink
to which she replied I know how you feel, I felt that way most of our marriage…
She feels that way currently, and your affair and distance in the marriage likely was a factor, but remember just because she says "most of the marriage" now doesn't mean that was really the case. The WAS/WS often initially rewrites the marriage in a negative light.

Originally Posted by Dink
She told me she wanted a divorce And I said ok, not knowing really about other man and as I wrote prior I lost it when I found her at Other man’s house.
Unfortunately you don't have a choice in the matter, whether you knew about the OM. Saying "ok" (or saying "no") doesn't enable it (or prevent it) in any way.

Originally Posted by Dink
Her tone had no resemblance of any regret, or compassion what she did
This is very common. It's more common the WAS/WS shows no remorse, and rarely does the LBS get an apology for the affair.

Originally Posted by Dink
It’s just sad
Definitely a sad situation. Sorry Dink.

Originally Posted by Dink
I at least have shown compassion and apologized foe my hurt from way back. She is definitely a wayward spouse. Bitter to the end even though this was her
Continue to show compassion if you can. You'll be better off for it, even if the anger makes you want to be mean.

Originally Posted by MLCxH
When you talk to the kids, keep your personal emotions and bias out of the picture. Resist the temptation to blame your WW or show her in a negative light. Focus on what is right for the kids and be in the right frame of mind.
Agreed. Especially because in your situation for anything you throw at her she'll come back in your face with your affair.

Originally Posted by Dink
I totally agree with what you have said and i definitely will put all the recent hurt behind for now when telling the kids. They are my main priority going forward.
Good.

Originally Posted by Dink
As I have learned I can only control myself and my emotions.
Very true.

Originally Posted by Dink
This will,be the second time in 3 years we will be telling them this news.
I'm confused. Thought you said they had no idea there were marital issues? Sounds like you had the same discussion a few years ago and this won't necessarily be a shock to them?

Originally Posted by Dink
Not that it changes anything but i have this pit in my stomach that she is going to hugely regret this
When she has cleared from her fog…maybe im wrong just a feeling. I’m much stronger this go around than I was last time.
Don't spend much time dwelling on a potential fog. Even if it's true it'll likely be a long time before it lifts, and it doesn't change how you should act moving forward...focus on your own self improvements and making your life happy with or without her.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
I totally agree with what you have said and i definitely will put all the recent hurt behind for now when telling the kids. They are my main priority going forward. As I have learned I can only control myself and my emotions. This will,be the second time in 3 years we will be telling them this news.
Not that it changes anything but i have this pit in my stomach that she is going to hugely regret this
When she has cleared from her fog…maybe im wrong just a feeling. I’m much stronger this go around than I was last time.

Dink, please please please do yourself a favor and resolve yourself to STICK to the discussion on how to tell the kids. Do not get into anything else relationship related. You have talked about the relationship way more than you should already.

Go in with this mindset: "I am going to stick to discussing how to tell the kids. If she deviates into any other territory, I will steer the conversation BACK to the how to tell the kids." And make up your mind ahead of time that you will not discuss anything else. No more apologies (you've said the), no more discussion about last weekend, no more talk about OM, what she is doing, that it is her decision. Remember, you've already said all there is to say about all of that. LBSs get themselves into more turmoil by constantly wanting to discuss everything over and over again. Trust me, from my own experience, it does NO good.

Stick to how to tell the kids. All other topics are verboten!
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Dink, please please please do yourself a favor and resolve yourself to STICK to the discussion on how to tell the kids. Do not get into anything else relationship related.
^Great proactive advice. You'll almost certainly be tempted to turn it into an R conversation.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
LBSs get themselves into more turmoil by constantly wanting to discuss everything over and over again. Trust me, from my own experience, it does NO good.
Yep. Been there, done that.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by BL42
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
So I texted her and said we need to tell the kids this weekend we are getting divorced and she said we can meet tomorrow to discuss how we want to do it.
Do you want a divorce? I can certainly understand if you did considering her PA, but got the sense you did not, in which case the board generally recommends not initiating R talks with your spouse or discussions like this.

Originally Posted by Dink
I then said, this would of been much easier Telling the if last weekend didn’t happen,
This comment has the sound of blame and pressure in it, which is not recommended.

Originally Posted by Dink
to which she replied I know how you feel, I felt that way most of our marriage…
She feels that way currently, and your affair and distance in the marriage likely was a factor, but remember just because she says "most of the marriage" now doesn't mean that was really the case. The WAS/WS often initially rewrites the marriage in a negative light.

Originally Posted by Dink
She told me she wanted a divorce And I said ok, not knowing really about other man and as I wrote prior I lost it when I found her at Other man’s house.
Unfortunately you don't have a choice in the matter, whether you knew about the OM. Saying "ok" (or saying "no") doesn't enable it (or prevent it) in any way.

Originally Posted by Dink
Her tone had no resemblance of any regret, or compassion what she did
This is very common. It's more common the WAS/WS shows no remorse, and rarely does the LBS get an apology for the affair.

Originally Posted by Dink
It’s just sad
Definitely a sad situation. Sorry Dink.

Originally Posted by Dink
I at least have shown compassion and apologized foe my hurt from way back. She is definitely a wayward spouse. Bitter to the end even though this was her
Continue to show compassion if you can. You'll be better off for it, even if the anger makes you want to be mean.

Originally Posted by MLCxH
When you talk to the kids, keep your personal emotions and bias out of the picture. Resist the temptation to blame your WW or show her in a negative light. Focus on what is right for the kids and be in the right frame of mind.
Agreed. Especially because in your situation for anything you throw at her she'll come back in your face with your affair.

Originally Posted by Dink
I totally agree with what you have said and i definitely will put all the recent hurt behind for now when telling the kids. They are my main priority going forward.
Good.

Originally Posted by Dink
As I have learned I can only control myself and my emotions.
Very true.

Originally Posted by Dink
This will,be the second time in 3 years we will be telling them this news.
I'm confused. Thought you said they had no idea there were marital issues? Sounds like you had the same discussion a few years ago and this won't necessarily be a shock to them?

Originally Posted by Dink
Not that it changes anything but i have this pit in my stomach that she is going to hugely regret this
When she has cleared from her fog…maybe im wrong just a feeling. I’m much stronger this go around than I was last time.
Don't spend much time dwelling on a potential fog. Even if it's true it'll likely be a long time before it lifts, and it doesn't change how you should act moving forward...focus on your own self improvements and making your life happy with or without her.

Dink the advice from both BL and MLC are SPOT ON!

I especially like the advice from BL on her "fog". Yes WWs always have a wayward fog. Some come out of it, some never do. Most take a long long time to. Over the weekend I was at an event where some friends of ours that split up were both there. Several years ago she cheated and left him for another man. He was devastated, but picked up the pieces, D'd her. Met another woman and remarried her. His new wife was at the event too. It took over 10 years but her fog is now lifted and she regrets what she has done. But her ex-H wouldn't take her back now for all of the tea in China!

Assume the fog is permanent and move forward with your own life with that understanding.

Hang in there, get through this next hurdle (telling the kids) and look toward the light at the end of the tunnel. All of the reading I've done suggests that men have a much higher chance of landing on their feet with a new relationship than women do. Apparently that disparity grows higher as the age of the couple goes up. The books on read on female infidelity and the aftermath were pretty clear that the research shows that LBHs are much more likely to find lasting happiness in a new R than women are. They showed a lot of statistics on this, the fact that women make up 50.1% of the population, that women live longer than men, etc. So just look towards a bright and happy future to come, even though it is hard to see now!
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 02:35 PM
I offered to meet her at the lake house today because eit my early night at work and she just replied she for got she had plans with friends at 6. She the said I could meet her after work, (she is a school teacher) as she isn’t going out with her friends until 6. I said we can meet at the house here in town where I currently am staying. She the replied I would be more comfortable meeting her ( her classroom) after school no one will be around and we will just close the door. I said ok, and she said thank you. Then I said sorry you feel uncomfortable.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 02:43 PM
I agree as I have done that as well
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 03:05 PM
What I meant about the 2nd time in 3 years was we told the kids three years ago we were getting a divorce, she told me she want one then when she was in a emotional affair and I found out. When we talked to the kids it was a bitch but I let her do most the talking which on the ride home together she was pissed about because she said it made her look like the bad guy the one to blame
And it was may long ago affair that caused this. We about 4 months later got back together and when we bought the lake house and we have been living there since as a new start because of the
Bad memories so to speak at other house from the years past. And as I have said previously the last 3 years of been a huge improvement in our marriage but still with the resentment at time showing some up sometimes. So again im the one who didn’t want the divorce and she feels again like she is going to come across as the bad guy again and the bothers her. I was more accepting this time but still have to say I was way more blindside this time since our relationship, time spent together and connection was so much better and loving . At least I thought.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 03:53 PM
Dink, after thinking about all of this, your kids are grown. So I think, in my opinion, it is less important for you tell the kids together. I would almost just cancel the meeting with her. And tell her you will handle telling the kids. Especially since this is the second time in 3 years.

Just when you get a chance tell the kids individually "Your mom and I are getting a divorce, and this time it is really happening." No need to tell them why ("We've just grown apart" is enough.) Certainly do not throw her under the bus by outing her PA. Trust me, that will all come out eventually. But the advice we normally give her is for minor children that will be now in a split home, being handed off between the parents. That is not your situation.

I'll open it up for others to chime in, but since your situation is involving grown children I think there is no need for the meeting to discuss, and it is just a bad idea in general.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 03:56 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
What I meant about the 2nd time in 3 years was we told the kids three years ago we were getting a divorce
Right, so there is history of them knowing about divorce; it won't be completely out of left field.

Originally Posted by Dink
When we talked to the kids it was a bitch
How did they react 3 years ago? Your sitch is different than mine w/adult vs. young kids.

Originally Posted by Dink
but I let her do most the talking
That sounds like a good approach, both back then and this time around.

Originally Posted by Dink
on the ride home together she was pissed about because she said it made her look like the bad guy the one to blame
Well she is the one in an active affair and asking for a divorce. You're not responsible for her feelings or making her look in a better light to your kids. Don't broach the specifics of her actions, but you don't need to speak up in her defense either.

Originally Posted by Dink
And it was may long ago affair that caused this.
Your past actions and affair were wrong and contributed to the decline of the marriage, but you can't change them now. From your perspective you've tried over the last 5 years (or however long) to improve your actions and the marriage. That's all you can do. You have to let the rest play out.

Originally Posted by Dink
So again im the one who didn’t want the divorce and she feels again like she is going to come across as the bad guy again and the bothers her.
Again, she's the one having an active affair and pursuing divorce. If that makes her feel like the bad guy that's on her, not for you to fix. Like last time I'd listen and let your wife do most of the talking. If your adult children ask you directly be honest but short and to the point, perhaps "I don't want the divorce, but won't stop your mother from pursing it". Don't get angry or smear their mother with her current activities. If your W brings up your past affair be honest and straightforward "Yes, I did 13 years ago. I am deeply sorry and feel terrible about that, but have done everything I can since to be a better husband."
Posted By: Jq25 Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 05:07 PM
Dink big hug for you brother, I am going through same/similar thing.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 06:26 PM
My concern is this, she thinks it would be better together, and that’s fine for me, and I worry that if I piss her off that the amicable divorce stuff we discussed last time and what we agreeed upon could be off the table and be more costly.

Last time we talked about a uncontested divorce which we basically agreed upon things between us and don’t need lawyers, since no minor children involved.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
My concern is this, she thinks it would be better together, and that’s fine for me, and I worry that if I piss her off that the amicable divorce stuff we discussed last time and what we agreeed upon could be off the table and be more costly.

Last time we talked about a uncontested divorce which we basically agreed upon things between us and don’t need lawyers, since no minor children involved.

As I said before it is your situation, you get to decide. But trying to be nice to get a result often backfires. You need to do what is best for you and your kids, not try to nice her into things. A lot of LBSs that tried to be nice to get a better result in the D that it came back to bite in the backside. So just giving you some things to consider.
Posted By: JosephS Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 06:48 PM
Hi Dink,
You definitely need a lawyer this time around. Just reading through your sitch, I do think it’s clear you are in panic fog, and that’s ok, most are.

Your children are grown, I’m not sure telling them should be a priority. I mean you definitely need to at some point, but there are more pressing needs imo.

You need to protect your assets right now. She’s going to be all over the place for a while. What she says today has no barring on tomorrow.

You really need to drop the rope, focus on yourself. Focus on your mental and physical health. Focus on getting a life and being the best version of yourself you can be. Controlled confidence is a very attractive trait, and that peaks the interest of most people, including spouses that are pushing away. But it can’t be fake, or manipulative.

I also think you are show signs of control issues. You can’t control was she says or does, and it’s not your place too. Right here, right now, in this moment, imo, you believe you are married, the law agrees with you, but your spouse for all intent and purpose does not.

I wish you good luck. This will not be a quick fix, and if it is all of a sudden you’ll be back here before you know it. Unfortunately there are not short cuts and you will have to walk this road one way or another. You may as well walk it on your terms, not hers. And believe it or not, when you get there, when you are happy and unconcerned about her, 9 times out of 10, you’ll see her poke her head around the corner to find out why you are so happy.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/24/22 08:07 PM
Dink,

I agree w/JosephS...consult an attorney. Period.

You don't have to sign a big retainer or engage formally yet, but at least get a free session outlining your rights to get a better sense on where you stand. That knowledge will help inform where you go with an amicable/uncontested divorce, should it go that way.

DO NOT tell your W you had a consultation, keep that to yourself. No need to tip her off or get her defensive or riled up.

Three main areas to consider:
1) Custody/Support - With no minor children custody and child support are a non-issue.
2) Spousal Maintenance - Sound like you were married for two decades or more? Not sure how much either of you make relative to each other, but this could be in play.
3) Assets - With multiple houses and I'm assuming some savings and retirement accounts this could be an area of negotiation.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 11:59 AM
Yes we have two houses, one we have only had about 3 years. She has a 401k As do I which have about the same amounts. We have credit card debit , and she has a vehicle lease. No other loans
The other thing is she has a pension, she is a school teacher. She will be able to retire in about 2-3
Years and get her full pension. She would probably still need to work as you can collect social security for a while and teacher don’t make [censored]. She has been teaching like 33 years and makes 60k a year. The thing is her pension will probably payer her 3000-3500/mo which I could go after half. We had plan on sell the house we have always had which has a lot more equity then most recent lake house. She does not want to part with her pension obviously as it is worth more than the equity in both houses. Her pension at say 3000/mo is 36000 a year. Over 10 years that’s 360000, over 20 years 720000. So I think she maybe willing to be cooperative but again who knows.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 12:14 PM
Dink,

Originally Posted by Dink
So I think she maybe willing to be cooperative but again who knows.
Ultimately the law is the law so whether or not she's willing to be cooperative doesn't matter. Just make sure you know what you're entitled to and if she's not willing to concede that cooperatively, than fight for it. DO NOT give up half her pension.

It sounds like you may make more relative to her, so keep in mind spousal maintenance may be a factor. But perhaps if she's eager to go off with OM and doesn't want to engage an L she might waive it.
Posted By: Core Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 12:34 PM
Dink,

I'm going to echo BL and Joseph about getting a free attorney session set up.

You have to gain: knowledge, security, a path forward if this heads to you getting D'd
You have to lose: finances, time, security

I highly recommend choosing one that mentions mens rights, if you can find one. My free consult was with a female mens rights attorney and goodness was she knowledgeable on female nature, my nature, judges and the legal system. Worth every free penny.

If you both save your marriage, no one has to know you consulted the attorney. Maybe some day it will feel like a joke. "Cant believe I went to see a D attorney when things are so good now". If things go bad, you may wish you consulted one earlier. I misconstrued one thing from my attorney and it was a near 5k mistake.

It is hard as F to even think about searching for one. Even harder calling one. Driving there. Filling out paperwork. Writing my kids name on a paper stating Core versus Ex Core is one of the hardest things I've done. If a man in going to cry in his life, that's one of the times. After you get through that difficult part, you will see that it made you stronger and more resilient. Your marriage can perhaps be saved, you can also work on protecting your future simultaneously.

Wishing you all the best Dink.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
Yes we have two houses, one we have only had about 3 years. She has a 401k As do I which have about the same amounts. We have credit card debit , and she has a vehicle lease. No other loans
The other thing is she has a pension, she is a school teacher. She will be able to retire in about 2-3
Years and get her full pension. She would probably still need to work as you can collect social security for a while and teacher don’t make [censored]. She has been teaching like 33 years and makes 60k a year. The thing is her pension will probably payer her 3000-3500/mo which I could go after half. We had plan on sell the house we have always had which has a lot more equity then most recent lake house. She does not want to part with her pension obviously as it is worth more than the equity in both houses. Her pension at say 3000/mo is 36000 a year. Over 10 years that’s 360000, over 20 years 720000. So I think she maybe willing to be cooperative but again who knows.

These things have a tendency to get ugly, even if the LBS has the best intentions. If you had car trouble, would you take it to a mechanic? Let the experts handle the legal stuff. A lot of LBSs say they cannot afford a lawyer. I always argue that you can't afford not to have a lawyer.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 04:18 PM
When we were talking last night she said, so you want the divorce now too? I said yes .
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Need advice please - 03/25/22 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
it is less important for you tell the kids together. I would almost just cancel the meeting with her....
Just when you get a chance tell the kids individually "Your mom and I are getting a divorce, and this time it is really happening." No need to tell them why ("We've just grown apart" is enough.) Certainly do not throw her under the bus by outing her PA.
I agree....I would even just let her tell the kids.

Text her:

"I changed my mind. No need for us to meet. I believe it is best if you tell the kids you are filing for D."
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/26/22 06:41 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
When we were talking last night she said, so you want the divorce now too? I said yes.
What was her reaction to that? And, how did the conversation go in general?

Most here would not recommend a relationship talk, and keep in mind now that you said that to her she can tell the kids it's something you both want as opposed to her choice. Maybe if you now truly are set on D it doesn't matter as much, but if it came out as a emotional reaction out of your pain with the situation you may regret saying it.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/26/22 06:42 PM
I know in my heart, this is over. I haven't been able to say that before. To much resentment and hurt I caused during those years and this is the second time in 3 years. She did come back, but I truly believe more because of how she saw it was affecting the kids, who are adults, but also how it affected me. I think when she came back we did improve our relationship a lot, but not to the point where she was still totally content and happy, to much past luggage from past. When we meet on Thursday, I too wanted the divorce and we would work thru it to find a closure and fair settlement and she was much more receptive to me. I want someone who truly wants to be with me, flaws and all and who I can start fresh with and not have the mistakes of my past affect the relationship. Tough days are ahead, but also fresh starts as well.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/26/22 08:08 PM
know in my heart, this is over. I haven't been able to say that before. To much resentment and hurt I caused during those years and this is the second time in 3 years. She did come back, but I truly believe more because of how she saw it was affecting the kids, who are adults, but also how it affected me. I think when she came back we did improve our relationship a lot, but not to the point where she was still totally content and happy, to much past luggage from past. When we meet on Thursday, I too wanted the divorce and we would work thru it to find a closure and fair settlement and she was much more receptive to me. I want someone who truly wants to be with me, flaws and all and who I can start fresh with and not have the mistakes of my past affect the relationship. Tough days are ahead, but also fresh starts as well.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by BL42
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
When we were talking last night she said, so you want the divorce now too? I said yes.
What was her reaction to that? And, how did the conversation go in general?

Most here would not recommend a relationship talk, and keep in mind now that you said that to her she can tell the kids it's something you both want as opposed to her choice. Maybe if you now truly are set on D it doesn't matter as much, but if it came out as a emotional reaction out of your pain with the situation you may regret saying it.

Dink, listen to BL. I think you speak to her way too often. Look up Last Resort Technique. And even if you really are at the point of not wanting to save it, then you still shouldn't be talking to her so much.
Posted By: RedDog Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 03:48 PM
Pressure and pursuit rarely works and usually just pushes them out the door even more quickly. Please read the post that job posted. It is pure gold in there. I would also seek out sandi's threads and writings. Her guidance during my sitch really helped me a lot.
Posted By: RedDog Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 03:50 PM
Stevelw,

How do I find posts you recommend from Job and writins and thread from Sandi?
Posted By: RedDog Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 03:51 PM
Can someone tell me how to post a quote I qant to respind to? Thx.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 05:39 PM
Bema,

There are threads pinned at the top of the forum, including:

Cadet's Welcome Thread
Sandi's 37 Rules #2

To post a quote hit the "Quote" button in the lower right hand corner of a comment and you can play with the start/end tagging, which is brackets around quote=username to start and brackets around /quote to end.

Originally Posted by Bema
ABC 123
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/27/22 07:58 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
know in my heart, this is over. I haven't been able to say that before. To much resentment and hurt I caused during those years and this is the second time in 3 years. She did come back, but I truly believe more because of how she saw it was affecting the kids, who are adults, but also how it affected me. I think when she came back we did improve our relationship a lot, but not to the point where she was still totally content and happy, to much past luggage from past. When we meet on Thursday, I too wanted the divorce and we would work thru it to find a closure and fair settlement and she was much more receptive to me. I want someone who truly wants to be with me, flaws and all and who I can start fresh with and not have the mistakes of my past affect the relationship. Tough days are ahead, but also fresh starts as well.
There is a sadness and resignation to this post. I'm sorry things in your sitch have gotten to this point. It does sound like you're starting to accept where things stand. You've done a good job of self-refection and recognize your past failings, which is good. Unfortunately we can't go back and change the past; we can only move forward and act differently for the future. As hard and painful as it is and will be, use the lessons you've learned to improve and make a great life for yourself.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 04:35 AM
Friday night we had a big argument. I screwed up again.. After meeting on Thursday and informing her I too was onboard with divorce I had to go to the lake house to get stuff and she said that was ok, as she wouldn’t be there. I had type a closure type letter that I left for her when I went to lake house. It just basically said even in those years I was emotionally unavailable I did still love you, even though you said I couldn’t have if I did what I did. I said that is why I never left.. I said I am telling you this for you to know, and for me to find closure. And it did make me feel better as I finally accepted the end to our marriage and seemed at peace. Friday night she texted me at about 7 am to say thank you for the letter, it was very hard to read and made me cry but I appreciate you being honest and telling me. I reply no problem. I was at the house I am staying at and she was at her mothers who is a block away and I said I do have something here for you if you want to pick it up and she said what is it and I said you will see. She said ok, it better not upset me. I said it shouldn’t . It was a writing I did for her years ago that she really liked. She said she would stop on her way to lake house. She stopped and I was lying down, and she came and said so what do you have, I said it sitting on stove. She went to stove to get it and came back and said why didn’t you tell me that this was what it was. I do want it but I didn’t need to get it tonight. She said it’s like you manipulated me by not telling me what it was, and got pissed. Then of course stuff got heat and we went back and forth until she finally left about a hour later. I did truly want her to have it
And too see her again because I did know it truly was the end. We unfortunately rehashed old wounds and she said im done being controlled and manipulated by you and left like I said about a hour later. The very next morning she called me at about 10 am to tell me that her grandma who is going to be 101 in July who just had hip replace surgery three days ago had a major GI bleed and was on the way to the hospital. She said she wanted to apologized for how thing escalated last night and ask if we could return to more of a civil tone like when we meet Thursday. I said yes.
She threw out a lot of hurtfull thing at me Friday, which maybe I deserved. She then later that day texted me to give me a update on Her grandma. I was very upset
At how things escalated Friday night, and some of hurtful things she said whether warranted or not,
And I was just being courteous in my reply. The today my sister called me and said she would come over today to help me with some stuff at the house im staying at to get it ready to sell. When she arrived we were talking a little about what happened the night before with my wife and I. Abou a half hour after my sister arrived she started down and said she wasn't feel very well and thought maybe she need something to eat, so we were going to go get something. When she stop up she started walking towards me by the door and then just stopped, and I said are you ok, and she didn't say anything. So I went up by her and she said something do feel right and she collapsed. I caught her and her eyes were just staring straight ahead and I keep saying her name but she did respond, the suddenly she star blinking and said that was weird. I slowly helped her up and she said ok I might need some fresh air. I'm holding her and we walk a few more feet to front door and I open it and she steps outside, and again say something doesn't feel right and was looking straight ahead with like a blank stare and collapsed again and I caught her and keep yelling her name and she did respond and when I helped her sit down she started blinking her eyes and so ok, thoat was so weird again. She asked for a drink and I got her one, and she said she was feeling a little better and I said I think I need to take to to the ER and we went to have her checked out. At ER the took her back and I waited for her. While I was waiting I sent I message to our family group chat which includes my three kids and their spouses and me and my wife. My wife tried calling me but I didn't answer, then she tried calling me 5 times over the next 2 hours and sent me three text telling me to please call her. I never did but I did keep them all updated thru the group chat. They finally cam out and said the ran test did a car scan, ekg and everything looked normal. The think it had something to do with a new medicine she recently started. I know I should have probably respond to my wife, but the previous night just had me not wanting to. I still haven't return a call or text, but she is aware that my sister is ok from our group message. I truly do know this is over, but after the way things went down the last couple weeks I just didn't want to allow my self to let her try to comfort me at this time ...
Posted By: Kind18 Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 06:48 AM
Quote
I did truly want her to have it
And too see her again because I did know it truly was the end.

I’m sorry Dink, but I need to be blunt.

Your big argument was, amongst other things, because you manipulated her. You wanted to see her again (your words, not mine) and so that’s why you didn’t tell her what it was you had for her. She came and got pissed off because she felt manipulated into coming to see you (which is entirely what happened).

I’m not going to tell you what you should have done instead. Or what you could have said differently, because you shouldn’t be saying anything at all.

The last few posters told you that you should be drawing a hard line on communication and strictly limiting it. That’s because if you don’t, this stuff happens and makes things even worse.

I know the emotional part of you still wants to see her/be around her. I get it. We ALL get it. How do you just switch off how you feel?

But the answer to that is simply that if you don’t take the hard steps to go silent and limit all conversation, you’re only hurting yourself even more.

I know it’s hard - but the advice on this forum and from the veterans is right and should be heeded. If you choose to ignore it, you’ll be back here again and again saying “I stuffed up.”

What are YOU doing to keep busy? Exercise? Hobbies? Socialisation? Now is the time to focus 0% on her and 100% on you.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by Dink
Friday night we had a big argument. I screwed up again.. After meeting on Thursday and informing her I too was onboard with divorce I had to go to the lake house to get stuff and she said that was ok, as she wouldn’t be there. I had type a closure type letter that I left for her when I went to lake house. It just basically said even in those years I was emotionally unavailable I did still love you, even though you said I couldn’t have if I did what I did. I said that is why I never left.. I said I am telling you this for you to know, and for me to find closure. And it did make me feel better as I finally accepted the end to our marriage and seemed at peace. Friday night she texted me at about 7 am to say thank you for the letter, it was very hard to read and made me cry but I appreciate you being honest and telling me. I reply no problem. I was at the house I am staying at and she was at her mothers who is a block away and I said I do have something here for you if you want to pick it up and she said what is it and I said you will see. She said ok, it better not upset me. I said it shouldn’t . It was a writing I did for her years ago that she really liked. She said she would stop on her way to lake house. She stopped and I was lying down, and she came and said so what do you have, I said it sitting on stove. She went to stove to get it and came back and said why didn’t you tell me that this was what it was. I do want it but I didn’t need to get it tonight. She said it’s like you manipulated me by not telling me what it was, and got pissed. Then of course stuff got heat and we went back and forth until she finally left about a hour later. I did truly want her to have it
And too see her again because I did know it truly was the end. We unfortunately rehashed old wounds and she said im done being controlled and manipulated by you and left like I said about a hour later. The very next morning she called me at about 10 am to tell me that her grandma who is going to be 101 in July who just had hip replace surgery three days ago had a major GI bleed and was on the way to the hospital. She said she wanted to apologized for how thing escalated last night and ask if we could return to more of a civil tone like when we meet Thursday. I said yes.
She threw out a lot of hurtfull thing at me Friday, which maybe I deserved. She then later that day texted me to give me a update on Her grandma. I was very upset
At how things escalated Friday night, and some of hurtful things she said whether warranted or not,
And I was just being courteous in my reply. The today my sister called me and said she would come over today to help me with some stuff at the house im staying at to get it ready to sell. When she arrived we were talking a little about what happened the night before with my wife and I. Abou a half hour after my sister arrived she started down and said she wasn't feel very well and thought maybe she need something to eat, so we were going to go get something. When she stop up she started walking towards me by the door and then just stopped, and I said are you ok, and she didn't say anything. So I went up by her and she said something do feel right and she collapsed. I caught her and her eyes were just staring straight ahead and I keep saying her name but she did respond, the suddenly she star blinking and said that was weird. I slowly helped her up and she said ok I might need some fresh air. I'm holding her and we walk a few more feet to front door and I open it and she steps outside, and again say something doesn't feel right and was looking straight ahead with like a blank stare and collapsed again and I caught her and keep yelling her name and she did respond and when I helped her sit down she started blinking her eyes and so ok, thoat was so weird again. She asked for a drink and I got her one, and she said she was feeling a little better and I said I think I need to take to to the ER and we went to have her checked out. At ER the took her back and I waited for her. While I was waiting I sent I message to our family group chat which includes my three kids and their spouses and me and my wife. My wife tried calling me but I didn't answer, then she tried calling me 5 times over the next 2 hours and sent me three text telling me to please call her. I never did but I did keep them all updated thru the group chat. They finally cam out and said the ran test did a car scan, ekg and everything looked normal. The think it had something to do with a new medicine she recently started. I know I should have probably respond to my wife, but the previous night just had me not wanting to. I still haven't return a call or text, but she is aware that my sister is ok from our group message. I truly do know this is over, but after the way things went down the last couple weeks I just didn't want to allow my self to let her try to comfort me at this time ...

Dink, yes you are right. This was a screw up. You talk to your STBXW wayyyyy too much. It is obvious you are trying to hold on. People say things, and they do things. The things they do belie their true intentions. The things they say are not indicative, they are only what is convenient, comfortable, and necessary at the moment. So when you say you know it is over, but then your actions are the opposite of that, people have to look at the things you are DOING and not the things you are saying. If a stranger (me) on the internet can pick up on this, then you have to understand that she (your STBXW) certainly can too!

Manipulation attempts are one of the worst things a LBS can do in their situations. WASs almost always see right through them. This is why we encourage LBSs to DB (GAL, 180s, detach) truly and sincerely for themselves, not to try to manipulate the spouse back to the marriage. Is it hard? Yes! Especially if you have a history of controlling and manipulative behavior. 180s/self-improvement DEMAND working on those behaviors. Dink, we've seen a lot of the LBSs here. Some come here, listen to the advice, work on themselves, and improve. Lots of examples of that. But others come here, read the advice, respond (and even sometimes argue) with it, then go and do what comes intuitively and natural to them. Those latter LBSs struggle mightily because they are unwilling to try to change what got them into their situation to begin with.

I am not saying all of this to 2x4 you. I am simply pointing out what I am observing. The chorus here is to back away from her, give her time and space, do not be so available to her, and certainly do not try to control and manipulate. And then you go back to the same behaviors you always engaged in.

I really like the way you handled her with your sister in the ER. Not calling her back. Not responding to her texts. I would like it EVEN more if you gave her what she wants and removed her from the group message ENTIRELY.

At this point you need to go dark. (LRT) You need to never answer her phone calls, certainly never call her. If she texts with a direct question, answer it in as few words as possible, but not right away (remember you are out GAL!). No greetings and salutations. No closings. No courtesies, just business like. Yes and no questions should get yes or no answers.

Ex: Her: How is your sister doing?
You (30 minutes later): She is much better.
Her: Okay I was really worried about her.
You do not respond since there was no question.
Her after some time: Did you see what I texted?
You after 20 minutes: Yes
Her: Why are you not responding?
You after 30 minutes: Really busy

That's how you should be interacting with her now. She fired you as her husband. You need to stop trying to continue to be that.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 01:28 PM
Your are completely right Steve, and I know I screwed up. Its hard some day knowing she has some one to talk to in OM and to keep her occupied. Part of the reason I did what I did on Friday where I guess I manipulated her, so I could talk was to try to get a firm time on tellling the kids, but I should of handled it differently. I do have my sister and friends but I haven’t been able to yet as we still haven’t talked to the kids. And out of respect to them I want them to know first, then that will make things easier I believe for me as I can then Talk to more people openingly. There has been so much going on with me and her, her grandma now my sister in the last week. But yes, I need to absolutely go dark. Yesterdays ordeal with my sister scared the [censored] out of me as I thought she was having a stroke, and that is what killed my brother at age 50. My mind and emotions have been everywhere. I know there have been way worse stories than mine and probably way better stories on her than mine, but I need to commit to my story and as you said go dark and only short responses if needed at all. I appreciate you all for the tough love and help provided to me. Now I just need to take the info and not just partially implement it but full commit to it.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 01:44 PM
I have been working at our other house I am currently staying at to get it ready to put up for sale.
Some days im more motivated than others right now. This past week with her grandma, and with my son being taken to the ER with 103.3 temps On Friday, and then yesterday when my sister collapsed and my house and taking her to the hospital where my wife’s grandma is at has just been a lot , but still no excuse with not following the rules that you all have been trying to get me to consistently do. I just need to get telling the kids out of the way,as this will open up more people I can talk to and help keep me busy while getting a life. As Sandi and her rules talk about and how Sandi her self who was a wayward wife tells….this isn’t the same wife I married and she has a cold cold heart towards me etc.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 02:12 PM
Dink,
Originally Posted by Dink
She said it’s like you manipulated me by not telling me what it was, and got pissed. Then of course stuff got heat and we went back and forth until she finally left about a hour later.
She was right. Asking her to come over to pick up an emotionally charged item was manipulative on your part, and predictably resulted in a fight. That's why it's recommended here to drop the rope, no R talks, no fights. The attempts on your part hurt your detachment and the manipulation/fights only increase her resentment.

Originally Posted by Dink
While I was waiting I sent I message to our family group chat which includes my three kids and their spouses and me and my wife. My wife tried calling me but I didn't answer, then she tried calling me 5 times over the next 2 hours and sent me three text telling me to please call her. I never did but I did keep them all updated thru the group chat.
Time to set up a group chat for you and your kids, without W. My guess is part of you wanted your W to know there was an issue and then by not answering you were punishing her. She's divorcing you and living with OM. Just leave her out of your family's business going forward.

Originally Posted by Dink
Yesterdays ordeal with my sister scared the [censored] out of me as I thought she was having a stroke, and that is what killed my brother at age 50.
Sorry about your sister. That must have been scary. Hope she's alright.

Originally Posted by Dink
This past week with her grandma, and with my son being taken to the ER with 103.3 temps On Friday, and then yesterday when my sister collapsed and my house and taking her to the hospital where my wife’s grandma is at has just been a lot
It is a lot. Hang in there.

Originally Posted by Dink
but still no excuse with not following the rules that you all have been trying to get me to consistently do.
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.

You made a mistake. You won't be the first or last here to do so. Do better going forward. You'll get through this.
Posted By: JosephS Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 02:17 PM
You didn’t need to see her to nail down a concrete time to tell the kids. That could easily be done with an email or two.

I understand your kids are older, but telling them so you have more people to talk to isn’t the healthiest of reasons. Also, please don’t use the kids as a tool to see her or attempt to shame her into coming back. I’m not saying you are or would, but the writing is on the wall IMO.

Last thing, you talk to her way much. You aren’t giving her an opportunity to miss you, or a reason too miss you. In the absolute simplest of terms, people want what they can’t have.
Posted By: Core Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 02:31 PM
Dink, sorry to hear about the additional turmoil with the family. When it rains, it pours isn't just a saying to relate to, sometimes it's a terrifying reality. You're faced with something here Dink. Bleakness, reality, fate, pain, turbulence, turmoil and maybe you can see what feels to be rock bottom. If you hit that bottom, will you take a pickaxe and dig? Will you lay down? Or, can you see what's coming, stare at it and let that wave of pain give you the energy and drive to stand up to it? Can you be the equal and opposite reaction to the hell you are facing? Imagine being the man that can conquer all this, years later, over a drink with friends telling the story. How did you get through it? Alone? With lifelines? Did random strangers on a forum help you brace the onslaught and you lead the charge against it? You aren't and don't have to be alone.

Post often, even if we are critical. Especially if we are critical. Get some solid exercise in. Heavy weights, cut some wood, punching bag. These feelings may turn to anger and taking that anger out in a testosterone filled exercise rage makes you feel alive.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 02:52 PM
Currently we still haven’t told the kids and if I suggest another group chat they will know something’s it up. The group chat isn’t from our phones, it a app called group me. So unfortunately
It is what it is regarding that. Once the kids know I will suggest a separate group message.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 02:54 PM
Well we do have to tell them and because of has happened this week with everything we haven’t been able to do it. I just don’t want to be talking and telling other people about our divorce with the kids not knowing. I have now started talking with my sister which has helped some.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 03:33 PM
I'd just tell them. No need to coordinate that with her. Just my opinion.
Posted By: JosephS Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 03:45 PM
I agree with Steve, just tell them. What I’m saying is I don’t think it’s the best idea to tell them so you can have them as extra support.

If you need that, than start therapy. There’s nothing wrong with an IC at all and it may help you in ways you didn’t expect.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 04:06 PM
I didn’t mean I needed to tell them to get their extra support, I meant it would free me to discuss
With other friends/family, knowing the kids now knew about the divorce.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 04:08 PM
Agree with Joseph. Though I see your point Dink about now being able to talk about it openly until the kids know (so they don't find out second hand). However, I do not think it is a good thing to do this with her. These are adult kids. Not minor kids. You wanting to coordinate with her on telling the kids is you still trying to work as a team with her. You and she are not a team any longer and therefore you do not need to coordinate the telling of the kids with her.

Again, just my opinion, but based on your other activities around trying to stay in contact with her, telling the kids just seems like one more attempt on your part to keep the connection with her alive.
Posted By: job Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 06:41 PM
Dink,

Please start a new thread as you have reached the 100 posting/reply limit. Please link your threads together.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 07:25 PM
How do you link threads together
Posted By: Mumin Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 08:48 PM
Click "use full editor"
Click the "insert link" icon (looks like a world with a link on it)


I was also locked in on telling the kids together.
After trying to coordinate it with her and a lot of other stuff happening I just had enough and told them myself. She was surprised and angry but not much more.
In their mind I think most WW/WAS just dont want to tell the kids "for the time being". While us LBS are going crazy about it.
If you feel they need to know and the S isnt cooperating just tell them.

You remind me alot about me in the beginning. Have a look at my thread. for some extra tips.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 09:01 PM
Need advice please
Posted By: RedDog Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 09:16 PM
To post a quote hit the "Quote" button in the lower right hand corner of a comment and you can play with the start/end tagging, which is brackets around quote=username to start and brackets around /quote to

Thx. How do i write a response separate from the quote?

Thx.
Posted By: RedDog Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Bema
To post a quote hit the "Quote" button in the lower right hand corner of a comment and you can play with the start/end tagging, which is brackets around quote=username to start and brackets around /quote to

Thx. How do i write a response separate from the quote?

Thx.


I do not understand where the thing that looks like a world is . Thx.
Posted By: Dink Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 09:22 PM
She called me today because I got Locked out of the bank account by putting in wrong password three time because I had caps lock on. She first texted me and said did you request a code from Huntington? If you did call me and I will give it to you. I replied already got it. Thx. She said what did you need it for I said I got locked out. She then called and said what’s going on with the back account and I told her I got locked out because of having caps lock on. She ok, just wanted to make sure what was going on, didn’t know what frame of mind you were in since you never answer my calls or text yesterday, referring to when I took my sister to ER room. I said I better today. She said you know you can call me or whatever to talk, we are still family. I said im good it was a long day and didn’t want to talk about . She was pretty upbeat acting. Then we said goodbye.

Strange
Posted By: Mumin Re: Need advice please - 03/28/22 09:39 PM
She was probably afraid u were stealing money or something.
Let it go. NC!
Posted By: BL42 Re: Need advice please - 03/29/22 12:21 AM
Dink,

Originally Posted by SteveLW
I think you speak to her way too often. Look up Last Resort Technique. And even if you really are at the point of not wanting to save it, then you still shouldn't be talking to her so much.
Originally Posted by Kind18
The last few posters told you that you should be drawing a hard line on communication and strictly limiting it. That’s because if you don’t, this stuff happens and makes things even worse.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
At this point you need to go dark. (LRT) You need to never answer her phone calls, certainly never call her. If she texts with a direct question, answer it in as few words as possible, but not right away (remember you are out GAL!). No greetings and salutations. No closings. No courtesies, just business like. Yes and no questions should get yes or no answers.
Originally Posted by JosephS
Last thing, you talk to her way much. You aren’t giving her an opportunity to miss you, or a reason too miss you. In the absolute simplest of terms, people want what they can’t have.
Originally Posted by Mumin
Let it go. NC!
Read the quotes above I pulled from others' comments. A handful of posters have already said communicate less (or not at all). There was nothing in her call or texts about the bank account you needed to respond to, and certainly no back and forth. Don't ease her into the transition. She already notice you didn't call her back about your sister. Make her wonder why you're not responding to the questions about the bank as well. Or any other topics for that matter.

Originally Posted by Dink
She said you know you can call me or whatever to talk, we are still family.
Lots of them say it. It's a farce. She's living with OM and asking for a Divorce. DO NOT give her the comfort of pretending you'll still be friends or still a family.

Originally Posted by Dink
Strange
Don't over think this. Most of them act strange, but don't fool yourself into thinking her acting upbeat or project your hopes of her leaving OM and keeping the marriage together onto her nice conversation.
Posted By: Kind18 Re: Need advice please - 03/29/22 12:59 AM
Quote
She called me today because I got Locked out of the bank account by putting in wrong password three time because I had caps lock on. She first texted me and said did you request a code from Huntington? If you did call me and I will give it to you. I replied already got it. Thx. She said what did you need it for I said I got locked out. She then called and said what’s going on with the back account and I told her I got locked out because of having caps lock on. She ok, just wanted to make sure what was going on, didn’t know what frame of mind you were in since you never answer my calls or text yesterday, referring to when I took my sister to ER room. I said I better today. She said you know you can call me or whatever to talk, we are still family. I said im good it was a long day and didn’t want to talk about . She was pretty upbeat acting. Then we said goodbye.

Strange

The only thing strange here is that you are still talking to her and answering calls.

CALLS - MAKE NO PHONE CALLS TO HER. ANSWER NO CALLS FROM HER.

MESSAGES - do NOT respond unless there’s a question, and even then, minimum 24 hours and come here first before responding. Do not initiate text messages.

If you keep communicating - you have no power.
If you stop communicating - it flips the power to you.

Also, you’re STILL concentrating on her. What are you doing for YOU? Exercise, job, hobbies, IC?
Posted By: job Re: Need advice please - 03/29/22 02:45 PM
Please start a new thread. I am locking this one because you have more than reached the 100 posting/reply limit.

Here is a link on how to "link your threads". But before you can link them, you need to start a new thread and then link them up. Since I have locked this thread. I will link your new thread to this one for you.

How to Link Threads

New Thread:

Need advice please
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