Stranger Things

[KitCat]

Previous Thread:

I don't wnat a divorce II New Thread pt 30

As promised LH - an update (((and please know that all things in my previous threads and this thread are true... no reason to make up sh*t... life is crazy enough)))

So I'm officially D for 4 months now. XH never got an atty. We had been having sex on and off since the beginning of August so no reason to not be amicable. It got too cold for any additional car rendezvous but none the less he would drive an hour each way to have amazing sex and then shower together or relax in the jacuzzi bath. He would always get more distant and a little cold before leaving, but always came back to kiss me before he drove away.

Once the D was done, then the REAL paperwork started. Again, because he had no atty we would just meet at mine. I even had him pick me up as my car was in the shop and we literally drove together to sign title and qdro docs. When at the atty's office I caught him checking me out!!! LOL!!! We left and he was going to drop me off but missed the turn - I was confused. I mean he hasn't lived here for 1 1/2 years but surely he did not forget the way to my house. I looked at him and was like, uhm, you missed the turn. He just responded that he was going to take me to breakfast. Oh, ok.

So at breakfast we continued to talk about anything and everything. It seemed like we were there forever waiting on our check but turns out it had been at the table and he was drawing out breakfast. During breakfast I had mentioned my sadness at the high rise condos they were building in my small town and how I felt it would detract from our small town feel, so on the way out I just pointed across the street the obvious new construction/blight. We left breakfast and he deliberately drove out of his way to go check out this new construction up close... ok.

As we got closer to my home he asked "what's that?". I replied the new tennis courts for the high school... ohh... and suddenly taking a left instead of a right to take me home. We are now on a Sunday drive through a town he really hated when he left. I remained pleasant and went with the flow. Then XH states he needs this thing and a fireplace shop would have it - is there a fireplace shop in town. I tell him there used to be and google it and give him the info.

At this point we are right near my house... and he drives right on by. Now we are going to the fireplace shop. I'm not sure why this is turning into such a drawn out day. Eventually the car place calls and my vehicle is ready for pick up so I just have him drop me off there.

I try to go about my day and literally 1hr later he is calling me. Trying to talk about this farm in bankruptcy that he put in a bid on but lost. I listened and validated. Even went so far to tell him that 6acres will not make him happy and that he should hold out for bigger property. He continued to talk and finally I said "hey, I'm stopping at work to get some paperwork done. I've got to go" and ended the call.

I truly have no idea why he was hanging on so much. I had to go to the West Coast for work for 5 days and he texted a lot! He knows I have friends that live there AND my bestie (who is male) was flying out to hang with me in the evenings. I would get texts from the day I left "have a good flight", "how was your flight", "what are you doing tonight"... every day he texted and even sent d*c pics... LOL.

I got home and he continues to text randomly through the day, my feet hurt, [sends selfie] does this look like pink eye, he would ask - how was your day, long discussions on what wine goes with brownies, co-workers, links to properties he was interested in, funny memes, etc. He would find excuses to make the 1hr drive each way for sex.

He was supposed to come one morning to leave another check and work on more paperwork but texted and asked to come the next day. I just agreed and didn't even ask why and went about my day. He texted later saying he had forgot his family dinner was the next day and could he instead come tonight. I told him I had plans... he asked what they were. I was honest and stated I was going to X Bar (we used to go together)... he asked if there was something going on there that night. I said -nope just needed a drink and was craving some good bar food. I have no idea what got into me but I ended up texting "hey if you and your pink eye want to join me at X bar tonight that would be fine". However, before he replied I had to text back "oops my bad, I just got asked to go to X instead, have a great night". I mean I really have no idea if he was going to join me at the bar or not so I just went with the plans I wanted.

Then more texting from him. "almost bought an AR today". Me - "Oh? You've been wanting one for sometime maybe you should just pull the trigger, LOL" And, I asked questions like so, you went to a gun show today instead of coming to the house? And we texted for a bit and then I was like - so I have to get going have a great night.

Only to be greeted the next day with more texts asking to come over. I said I'm not really up for it. To be honest I need more out of this than I'm getting. He needs to step up and do some of the light household chores I asked if he would do - and agreed but has yet to do so. One of which is just screwing the dishwasher back into the countertop - like 10min. Or, I said he needs to give me more of his time like staying the night. So I really pushed back on letting him come over. Then he called me on the guise he was out to buy dog food and texting was difficult. So we chatted about anything and everything. Next thing I know we've been on the phone for an hour and he is in my driveway. UGH... I don't look bad but its Sunday, no shower and sweats day...

He comes in and we take a very long bath together... continue chatting... rubbing each other's feet. Then we end up in the shower. And, then sex nearly everywhere in the house. Its all great and he is super into me until its time to leave. I realize he can't spend the night - the dog is at his house, he works tomorrow, etc and I don't push. He pulls out some paperwork that could have been mailed or emailed. He is businesslike. I eventually walk him to the door. He leaves but then turns and comes back to kiss me goodbye.

There is always a bit of a pullback when he leaves. I never expect to hear from him immediately. I came down with COVID and life is hard enough living alone but when you are really really sick it completely bites. I have no family in the area. I had about 3 really rough days and I got very needy. I really pushed my XH. And, I got the expected "I don't care about you or what you do, its none of my business, you want to impress me then go find a new guy". I mean I get it. He was feeling pushed and reacted defensively. But, its quite clear from all the texts asking me about my day, etc in the last 4months that he does care some. He could not leave me alone on my trip because he knew I was with someone.

I won't lie - it did hurt to see him type those words. But, I'm not letting it phase me. He's really pulled back again so I'm just giving him time and space while living my own life.

2 days after his rant he texted me that he received tax docs that I need at his house. I told him thank you for letting me know and he could just mail it to me. He never agreed to mail them... and its been 3 weeks and he still hasn't mailed them. I don't know if he is holding on to them as an excuse to make the drive or what. Not really focusing on it. Not really caring at the moment.

Drum Roll Please.....

After not a peep for 11months, pilot texts me at Thanksgiving. WHAT? I waited a couple of days before I responded... he then took a couple of days to get back to me. I'm not really sure if this is friendship or if he is interested in something else.

We just text on and off for a month. Its his busy season so I truly did not expect to see him. It was about 5 weeks before he asked me out of a drink but he was out of town so it was another week before he locked me down on a date and time. He knew I was out of state for a family thing that day but it was not a problem for me to leave early to meet him for drinks. I would be home at X time. When I got home I texted him - got a kind of crabby response so I just said so we are not meeting for drinks tonight - we set this up 2 days ago? Got an even crabbier response so I just said "Hey, I get it your tired. Get some rest and we will do this some other time".

It took a couple more weeks but he did ask me out for dinner. Dinner was ok. It was good to see him and I'm clearly still attracted to him.

What I'm realizing during all these weeks of texting and dinner and then looking at our past history is that this man is a very odd duck. In the past because of my recent betrayal trauma with my XH I had internalized all his complaints and made then 100% my fault. I really wrecked myself over this guy and my perceived failings and mistakes.

I started accepting this guy for who he is and that if I'm going to date him I'm going to have to make allowances for some odd behaviors/expectations. I raised a kid on the spectrum so I'm well versed in quirks and accommodations!

We had our second date which I think was lovely. He picked up me and there was lots of conversation. I knew I was not ready for sex and frankly I'm not even sure what he thinks about me as our first date was very vanilla. I was about to give up but he did kiss me goodnight 3 times before he left... YEAH!

He was pretty quiet the next week and while he did not initiate texts he would respond to mine. I only text every 3 days. I would ask about his week or send a funny meme that turned into a longer joke back and forth for a few days.

I was hoping he would ask me out this weekend and on Friday he texted "when can I play with X" ((throw back to the meme from this week)). I replied I'm free on Saturday but I'm looking for more than a hook up. He gets back to me the next day "No one said anything about a hook up. I want to give you multiple O's"

Wow... great! Still about sex and I'm not there yet... frack.

I stated "Well I don't ever want to say no to that! Physical attraction is great but I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well. Like what was the weirdest thing this week or what something you want to do this year."

UGH, not well received. His response was he goes to work a week at a time, comes home exhausted and drained and doesn't want to answer 50questions just to stimulate someone. That if someone can't answer the door with a drink and nothing on and wait a day before a barrage of questions then its not for me. Call me pig or whatever I don't want to be interrogated to get into the door or for sex.

HOLY DUCKING WHAT????

I will admit my timing was terrible. He's been night flying and just got home on Friday and he had something to attend Saturday morning. So not only is he tired but his sleep schedule is off. So I can see from his previous behaviors that he truly needs some down time when he back in town. I can respect that.

But, he of all people knows that I have no problem driving across town nearly naked and showing up at his front door.

Many people would not respond and part of me was definitely not into responding. But, I get my timing was bad. I simply stated. "I understand. I apologize. I did not mean to add to an already stressful week. Showing up a door with a cocktail and nothing on is fun and easy enough if it puts a smile on you face. I just wanted to get to know you. I'm sorry I made you feel interrogated."

Its becoming very clear why he has been single for so long and perhaps because he has been single for so long he [censored] when it comes to relationships.

A year ago I would have internalized all this to mean there was something wrong with me and would have word vomited all over him.

This is his issue.

I get it. Its hard being gone a week at a time. Different time zones. Dealing with COVID rules. Just trying to find a decent meal with shut down and most places dealing with low staff not to mention having elderly parents and pets with issues while you are on an opposite coast is stressful. I'm completely empathetic. When you are exhausted you want things to be easy and not stressful. I get that too. BUT, I also have a job and life stress.

I have no idea if I will hear from him again. I will not chase him.

I'm super busy with work and travel. I started getting into pet friendly hotels and traveling with my 100lb dog. We did a short trip. He gets anxious and is not a fan of elevators! I brought drugs so that helped. I'm hoping this summer to plan a trip with him while I do some underground kayaking and then maybe some hiking with him. I'm getting better at the ukulele... slowly... I leave in less than 2 weeks for a week long vaca where a friend is going to meet up with me.

There you have it!!! My lovely messy life!!

[LH19]

WTF? Now wonder why the newcomers board has been so boring. No judgement but what exactly are you doing with your exh? I’m really concerned what all this is doing to your mental health.

[KitCat]

LH - Fair enough...

My mental state is a 1000x's better than this time last year.

In general I'm pretty happy. That doesn't mean I don't get hammered with a bad day now and again.

I have no idea what is going on with my XH, but I 100% percent accept him where he is at right now. Clearly he is still attracted to me if he will make a 2hr drive for sex... and its amazing! I see bits and pieces where he is unhappy in his current situation and at times works hard at covering it up. Sometimes I see him hit with shame/guilt and other times that he can't believe that things could be different or still angry that it took this step before things really changed. Not my circus/not my monkeys.

And... the sex is really good. The intimacy is still there when we take a bath together. So while I'm single and free why not have the good sex???

I mean I was completely comfortable shutting him off because I am really attracted to pilot and no way ever would I be sexually active with 2 guys at the same time. I really liked where things were going with pilot until the hiccup this weekend.

So for now I just go back to focusing on me and let my XH or pilot figure their crap out. If it turns out that either want to make an effort I will see how I feel at the time.

[Ginger1]

So you don’t mind being the OW? Because you most definitely are now .

[LH19]

KK,

Ok some of it makes sense but your ex is a shady dude. I don’t see an exclusive healthy relationship with either dude but you’re a big girl and know what you are up against.

More to relationships then great sex. Who said that? Lol.

[KitCat]

So you don’t mind being the OW? Because you most definitely are now .

IDK. I don't ask. Is he still with her??? Is he dating around??? IDK.

At most you could only classify us as FWB.

I'm not in a relationship with my XH.

[KitCat]

KK,

Ok some of it makes sense but your ex is a shady dude. I don’t see an exclusive healthy relationship with either dude but you’re a big girl and know what you are up against.

More to relationships then great sex. Who said that? Lol.

Yes, I know there is more to a relationship than great sex.

The point is I'm NOT in a relationship with either.

That doesn't mean I have to be a nun. If I can have great sex with my XH because after a decade you know exactly all the buttons and whistles to push and blow... then why not. I'm not saying you can't have great sex with a new person but its a crap shoot right???

I'm not expecting my XH to come back. If he ever has a come to Jesus moment and I'm available we'll see. Otherwise I'm just living my life in a way that works for me.

[LH19]

Sounds reasonable to me. I just haven’t met many women who this sort of thing doesn’t effect them. Maybe you’re built different?

[KitCat]

Sounds reasonable to me. I just haven’t met many women who this sort of thing doesn’t effect them. Maybe you’re built different?

LH I'm soon to be 53yr old. I don't have time for hogwash... LOL!

Don't get me wrong. I was all excited to have another date with Pilot this weekend... and it was just ONE huge text fiasco which left me in tears of disappointment.

But, I'm to the point that I recognize that this man has been on the market for the last 9yr for a reason... lol. He got some garbage to sort out. If he does great!!!! If he doesn't completely his loss. I'm very smart, funny, attractive, fantastic career and financially stable.

[Ginger1]

There is a difference between being a nun and sleeping with your exH who is 99% still In a relationship.

Definitely an in between . But hey, if you like being a FWB to your ex husband who likely is still with OW. All the more power to you

[LH19]

I don’t think either guys are going to buy the cow when they can get the milk for free.

[KitCat]

Ginger --- where is the proof that he is still with OW???

I don't have any.

He says he is not, but frankly I would not put him at the top of authority of truth. I am aware that his male cohort for the last 2year set him up on date 5mo ago... and my XH was not impressed. Now this male cohort is part of this high school group... XH and OW and this guy all went to school together and know each other. They used go out as a foursome with corhorts wife (again all high school pals). NOW, why would this guy set up my XH on a double date if he was still with OW???

I literally can find NO PROOF they are still together. I'm not stalking him.

We are not in a committed relationship. That does not mean I'm now the OW.

[KitCat]

I don’t think either guys are going to buy the cow when they can get the milk for free.

LH... if I were a cow I'd long ago have been sent to the slaughterhouse at my age... there would be no da*n cow to purchase and the milk would have been long soured...

[LH19]

Ginger --- where is the proof that he is still with OW???

I don't have any.

He says he is not, but frankly I would not put him at the top of authority of truth. I am aware that his male cohort for the last 2year set him up on date 5mo ago... and my XH was not impressed. Now this male cohort is part of this high school group... XH and OW and this guy all went to school together and know each other. They used go out as a foursome with corhorts wife (again all high school pals). NOW, why would this guy set up my XH on a double date if he was still with OW???

I literally can find NO PROOF they are still together. I'm not stalking him.

We are not in a committed relationship. That does not mean I'm now the OW.

I tried to tell you a long time ago you weren’t plan b. More like plan G. The LBS being plan b is the biggest myth on the board.

[KitCat]

I tried to tell you a long time ago you weren’t plan b. More like plan G. The LBS being plan b is the biggest myth on the board.

OW was NEVER my competition.

OW was a symptom of a problem in my M.

My only competition is myself. Therefore it doesn't phase me that my XH isn't jumping up and down choosing me!!!! He has his own battles to face. I accept who and where he is right now.

I'm at peace. I understand the 3 reasons D happens. I have empathy for the pain my XH was feeling when he felt the need to leave our M, for the hopelessness that that he felt. I know he is not as happy as he wants everyone to believe he is... and I have empathy for that too.

Sometimes late at night he asks the hard questions. Why wasn't he enough? What changed? Could I really be different with him?

Sometimes I will answer them, but sometimes I ignore because I'm not always convinced he wants the answer.

Sometimes it anger - I was given warnings and options and choose what I choose because it was all about me. ((shrug))

I listen. I validate. I can see why you would feel that way. I understand why you would think that way.

And, then I keep living my life.

If XH wants to spend time with me and it can be a positive experience, why not? I understand the process in which people fall in love... fall out of love and can fall back in love.

I'm not putting anything on hold. If I meet someone else before my XH has a come to Jesus moment... that's on him.

[LH19]

I have to be honest I can’t argue with what your saying although the physical and mental abuse has been forgotten? The only part you may be fooling yourself with is placing your life on hold. Only you know the truth to that. It’s not your conventional D but you have alway ls been a different Kat (pun intended) lol.

[KitCat]

I have to be honest I can’t argue with what your saying although the physical and mental abuse has been forgotten? The only part you may be fooling yourself with is placing your life on hold. Only you know the truth to that. It’s not your conventional D but you have alway ls been a different Kat (pun intended) lol.

NOPE - it has not been forgotten

My XH quit smoking 1 1/2yr ago.

Sometimes we are texting and he actually goes "my apologies"... WHAT???? That's a word I would swear he never knew.

There's a lot of differences in talking with him. He's a lot more calm.

I had to ask his input on something regarding S20's car because technically he is still 50% owner until he pays it off. I was not happy about how S20 was treating me in regards to the situation and my XH used words like his behavior is not very loving or respectful. WAIT??? What in all that is holy is going on here??? My XH using words like loving or respectful literally sucked the air right out of my chest.

When I described that day in the car driving around town with him... not one millisecond of road rage.

I would have to say that my XH has done some work....

[LH19]

Well it will be fun to follow along. Keep us posted.

[Taz]

Well it will be fun to follow along. Keep us posted.

I’m on the edge of my seat. This is good stuff.

No offense KK and no judgement from this side of the street.

Taz

[BL42]

KitCat,

I hear you're enjoying the sex, but to be honest reading through your update makes it sound like neither ExH or Pilot are treating you with the respect you deserve. I'd be inclined to tell them both to take a hike and wait to find someone who makes you a priority. Just my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.

[LH19]

KK can correct me if I’m wrong. I think the pilot is a pawn in the game to win the ex back. I think the pilot could care less as long as KK is ready to go at his beckoned call.

I think there is value to retrying to make a connection with ex but you better find out quick if it’s all about sex. If not you are going to get burned bad again.

[Thornton]

Welcome back, Kit.

You certainly have always done things your own way, and if that works for you, then God Bless!

One thing that I can't help but notice is how willing you are to tolerate ExH or Pilot being disrespectful, grumpy etc, and then apologizing to them all the time. Maybe something to think about.

[Ginger1]

I mean, if you have no desire to be either of their number one’s and that isn’t your true desire or end goal, all the more power to you.

If you want something serious out of either of them, and you are just taking what you can get, you might want to reevaluate

[KitCat]

I mean, if you have no desire to be either of their number one’s and that isn’t your true desire or end goal, all the more power to you.

If you want something serious out of either of them, and you are just taking what you can get, you might want to reevaluate

How about just accepting that I'm currently happy living my life as it is --- not having expectations. My end goal is focusing on myself and what works for me at this current point in my life.

Maybe, I get my feelings hurt. Maybe, I don't. Maybe I'm okay because I'm not living my life outcome dependent.

[Traveler]

Hi Kit, if you're happy with how things are going, that's fantastic. Like, "Go KitCat!" I'm rooting for that happy for you. I see happy moments but also unfulfilled desires.

Ginger --- where is the proof that he is still with OW??? He says he is not, but frankly I would not put him at the top of authority of truth.

I read this like someone ignoring the truth--like someone buying a "Rolex" for $100 ("Where's the proof it's fake??"). I could completely understand if you said, "Any vow is between him and OW. I don't care if he's cheating on OW." or "OW cheated on me! I'm angry and want to get back at her." Your actual response sounds a bit like a head in the sand. There's smoke, but you won't worry about a fire unless it's proven. I wonder if you actually feel one of the above but aren't to admit that feeling. I wouldn't blame you if you were angry at OW and wanted to hurt her back. It's a common desire.

if you have no desire to be either of their number one’s and that isn’t your true desire or end goal, all the more power to you.

Like Ginger says, if you enjoy having sex whenever XH or Pilot want it, and are okay that's your primary value to them, this is a great path. What makes me suspect you want more is when you say things like--

I came down with COVID and life is hard enough living alone but when you are really really sick it completely bites. I have no family in the area. I had about 3 really rough days and I got very needy. I really pushed my XH. And, I got the expected "I don't care about you or what you do, its none of my business, you want to impress me then go find a new guy". I mean I get it. He was feeling pushed and reacted defensively. But, its quite clear from all the texts asking me about my day, etc in the last 4months that he does care some. He could not leave me alone on my trip because he knew I was with someone.

KitCat, ýou got COVID and were feeling sick and he told you, "I don't care about you." No, it's not obvious he cares about you. I have no friend nor acquaintance I would say that to. I do remember when I was in a dark place MANY YEARS AGO I'd tell my then GF "I don't love you." and she'd say "Oh, of course you do."?! You seem to be ignoring what he's telling you. The more obvious reason for worrying about who you're with is to keep his flow of sex and control.

KitCat, why did you not reach out to a friend instead of a guy who sees you as easy sex? Friendships are wonderful--relationships where there's mutual caring about one another. If you don't have one like that, get building. (:

I stated "Well I don't ever want to say no to that! Physical attraction is great but I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well. Like what was the weirdest thing this week or what something you want to do this year."

KitCat, <3. You stated your needs. "I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well." That's what I see when I read your posts--a beautiful person (vet, kind, empathetic) not getting her needs met and not on a path to get them met. The perfect response to him being a pig was radio silence. If he's on the spectrum (doesn't understand social cues) and you're still interested then be BLUNT "You're being a pig. You have my number when you're better rested." No expectations is cool, but you clearly have them--you state you WANT a star-shaped peg, but keep allowing square-shaped pegs, and when you hope they suddenly became star-shaped and they remind you they're square-shaped, you get hurt and apologize. I'd love to see you be more assertive so you get your needs met. Because you're awesome. I do get you're finding some happy moments along your journey and I'm glad to hear that. Supporting you and wishing you all the best.

[KitCat]

Hi Kit, if you're happy with how things are going, that's fantastic. Like, "Go KitCat!" I'm rooting for that happy for you. I see happy moments but also unfulfilled desires.

I hear ya!

Ginger --- where is the proof that he is still with OW??? He says he is not, but frankly I would not put him at the top of authority of truth.

I read this like someone ignoring the truth--like someone buying a "Rolex" for $100 ("Where's the proof it's fake??"). I could completely understand if you said, "Any vow is between him and OW. I don't care if he's cheating on OW." or "OW cheated on me! I'm angry and want to get back at her." Your actual response sounds a bit like a head in the sand. There's smoke, but you won't worry about a fire unless it's proven. I wonder if you actually feel one of the above but aren't to admit that feeling. I wouldn't blame you if you were angry at OW and wanted to hurt her back. It's a common desire.

Do I appreciate the irony that he cheated on her with me... yes... yes, I do. But, as I explained in later post. OW is not and has never been my competition. From what I am understanding he was cheating on her long before he started coming around and hooking up with me??? AGAIN, not my circus and not my monkeys. OW should have known what a broken hot mess she thought she was winning!

if you have no desire to be either of their number one’s and that isn’t your true desire or end goal, all the more power to you.

Like Ginger says, if you enjoy having sex whenever XH or Pilot want it, and are okay that's your primary value to them, this is a great path. What makes me suspect you want more is when you say things like--

So what I am saying is that I'm living life without expectations.

Would I turn down an LTR with Pilot? Nope. But, I accept where he is... and frankly he is an odd duck. If it just turned out we are just to be friends, I would be cool with that, but no sex.

I came down with COVID and life is hard enough living alone but when you are really really sick it completely bites. I have no family in the area. I had about 3 really rough days and I got very needy. I really pushed my XH. And, I got the expected "I don't care about you or what you do, its none of my business, you want to impress me then go find a new guy". I mean I get it. He was feeling pushed and reacted defensively. But, its quite clear from all the texts asking me about my day, etc in the last 4months that he does care some. He could not leave me alone on my trip because he knew I was with someone.

KitCat, ýou got COVID and were feeling sick and he told you, "I don't care about you." No, it's not obvious he cares about you. I have no friend nor acquaintance I would say that to. I do remember when I was in a dark place MANY YEARS AGO I'd tell my then GF "I don't love you." and she'd say "Oh, of course you do."?! You seem to be ignoring what he's telling you. The more obvious reason for worrying about who you're with is to keep his flow of sex and control.

I wasn't very clear. During COVID he was supportive and checking in with me. It was maybe 3-4 weeks after and I'd gotten very needy for about a week. It was more like he was angry and defensive. It was a slew of texts meant to be mean. He was looking to hurt me. Saying things like if you want to impress me to get a new nice guy... then today being upset because I have someone new on the line...

I stated "Well I don't ever want to say no to that! Physical attraction is great but I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well. Like what was the weirdest thing this week or what something you want to do this year."

KitCat, <3. You stated your needs. "I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well." That's what I see when I read your posts--a beautiful person (vet, kind, empathetic) not getting her needs met and not on a path to get them met. The perfect response to him being a pig was radio silence. If he's on the spectrum (doesn't understand social cues) and you're still interested then be BLUNT "You're being a pig. You have my number when you're better rested."

^^^^ That is EXACTLY what I should have said. 100% best response.

Instead I apologized for the miscommunication, stroked his ego, told him I'd like to see him again and if he wanted to see me again that I hoped he would reach out.

Walking away....

The universe handed me my arse today... in a harsh way.

My XH and I had been texting all day. Take a bad moment that just snowballs for 6hr. I finally had to say - just stop, I can't do this right now. He starts saying the oddest things... like I took your advice, I had in a moment of frustration a month ago said something which he interpreted to be an ultimatum from me - which it never was because one thing I've know for 12yr is that is the worst thing you do with my XH. That at least explained some behavior in the last month.

I'm honestly just emotionally exhausted.

Today was not a good day.

Tomorrow can be better.

Literally putting both these men on mute right now.

[KitCat]

KitCat,

I hear you're enjoying the sex, but to be honest reading through your update makes it sound like neither ExH or Pilot are treating you with the respect you deserve. I'd be inclined to tell them both to take a hike and wait to find someone who makes you a priority. Just my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.

I am starting to agree and see that loud and clear!!!

[KitCat]

KK can correct me if I’m wrong. I think the pilot is a pawn in the game to win the ex back. I think the pilot could care less as long as KK is ready to go at his beckoned call.

I think there is value to retrying to make a connection with ex but you better find out quick if it’s all about sex. If not you are going to get burned bad again.

I disagree that Pilot is a pawn.

I like him. I really do. I'm really attracted him. I really want to have sex but I know that if I don't go a little slow I could mess this up. And, I want to do it right this time!!! I get that its complicated because we have prior history and have had sex. I don't know what happened... We had such a nice dinner out together that ended pretty nice. To say I'm not disappointed is a lie.

It is what it is....

As for my XH. I see how much he has worked on himself... I think he has seen how much I've worked on things. I need to sleep on today's text exchanges. I'm not sure if the wall if coming back up or if some bricks came down. I had to walk away today because I was becoming emotionally flooded.

Right now as of this moment - I'm throwing my hands up in the air and walking away from both.

I'm going to work on packing. I leave in 10 days for a trip to Lake Geneva. I'm going to focus on myself and enjoying a disconnect from life for awhile.

[KitCat]

Welcome back, Kit.

You certainly have always done things your own way, and if that works for you, then God Bless!

One thing that I can't help but notice is how willing you are to tolerate ExH or Pilot being disrespectful, grumpy etc, and then apologizing to them all the time. Maybe something to think about.

Woo Hoo!!!

I've worked on stuffing it down and not reacting out of emotions. Sometimes that can cross the line of tolerating disrespectful/grumpy behaivor.

Need to find the balance for sure!

[LH19]

KK,

So when I read your updates I get the sense by your almost clinical talk you dug deep to understand what went wrong in your marriage. For that you should be applauded.

However, (yes I know however negates everything I said above) you know these two men are unavailable for a healthy relationship but you make excuses for being available to then for their sexual pleasure. You are just kicking the can down the road. I don’t think you ever grieved your marriage because you were hyper focused on getting your H back. Like you’ve indicated, you are not getting any younger. How much more do you want to chase these dead ends?

As for your Exh, he sounds like the same ahole he always was in the past. Still cheating, still disregarding your feelings. So he quit smoking and didn’t road rage one day. Wow!

Enjoy your trip and really think about how you want to live the rest of your life.

[KitCat]

KK,

So when I read your updates I get the sense by your almost clinical talk you dug deep to understand what went wrong in your marriage. For that you should be applauded.

However, (yes I know however negates everything I said above) you know these two men are unavailable for a healthy relationship but you make excuses for being available to then for their sexual pleasure. You are just kicking the can down the road. I don’t think you ever grieved your marriage because you were hyper focused on getting your H back. Like you’ve indicated, you are not getting any younger. How much more do you want to chase these dead ends?

As for your Exh, he sounds like the same ahole he always was in the past. Still cheating, still disregarding your feelings. So he quit smoking and didn’t road rage one day. Wow!

Enjoy your trip and really think about how you want to live the rest of your life.

I hear what you are saying.

Please keep in mind that I am NOT having sex with pilot. I put in a boundary and I stuck with it. Would I have slept with him if he had been acting like an adult, worked out our miscommunication and treated me in a way that felt like he was hearing my needs? Yes, eventually I would have.

But, that's not what happened therefore, I did not remove my boundary.

Timing is just crap right now.

I'm left to sit with the whole situation. Why on earth would he reproach me now that I'm D if he was just wanting a hook up? I mean I was legally separated but he walked because I was not D. If I'm just a hook up/sex why that line in the sand? I will admit in the beginning I did have expectations when he started texting again now that I was D. I was thinking more in line of an LTR. But, there were red flags. Tiny ones. Ones that by themselves aren't deal breakers but at this point I have a quite a collection and I am left scratching my head on this one.

I've walked away. I've got things to sort in my head and unlike last time I am not chasing him.

As for my XH - yesterday wiped me out emotionally. It wasn't good or bad. It wasn't one thing or another. It was like peeling an onion and getting to the next layer. That next emotional layer. It was like he almost got a point where he was choosing me because things had been different to suddenly he felt like something I said was an ultimatum to him --- so he said he took my advice and cut everyone out (at this point including me), but maybe choosing her??? It was so unclear and frack if I know what I said that he took to be an ultimatum but it had to be recent such in the last couple of weeks??? He went from 2 weeks ago telling me to impress him to meet a new, nice guy to being angry that I had. Like that was the reason he made his current choice. His language was so vague that eventually I just had to cut the convo because I just see myself emotionally flooding.

I took the time last night really looking at what he said - the beauty of text messages... they are there forever.

Decided I really need to detox from him. In over 2yr now the longest we have gone without being in contact is 10 days. 10 lousy days.

I decided I needed a good 60 to 90 days but frankly better set a goal of 30 days. That's at least 3 times the longest time we have ever gone and won't seem so impossible.

Don't be misled that my life is focused on just these 2 guys right now. I mean at the moment both are a sh*tshow. I've made new platonic guy friends. Meeting up with old friends at fun vaca spots. I joined this 100mil dog walk challenge and a male friend of mine joined too... so we are keeping each other motivated! I've done several cooking challenges. I'm not centered around two circus clowns.

[LH19]

Do you have any girl friends you could hang out with sometimes?

[LH19]

As for the a$$ clowns. Make them show you something first. It is really that simple.

[Traveler]

I decided I needed a good 60 to 90 days but frankly better set a goal of 30 days. That's at least 3 times the longest time we have ever gone and won't seem so impossible.

That's an excellent goal. What steps will you take to achieve a better outcome than before?

In the past, you relied on him not contacting you "Now there's no reason, this time he'd never reach out!". Inevitably he did. Willpower helped, but he kept probing until he found a new angle--puppies, quick questions, or kind comments he'd NEVER said before. You may have waited 10 days to reach out, but was typically inside your head sooner than that.

I'm at 8 months no contact with the long-term, live-in XGF who brought me here, and 2 months no contact with my last XGF. Blocking is the forum's usual recommendation. It's HARD to do but frees you completely from their attempts to reel you in, detoxes you. I did send a message to my last XGF informing her I was blocking her to be polite.

You don't have to do the same thing as me. But to achieve an outcome 3x better than before, you have to do something very different than before, or you'll end up at 14 days not 30 days.

[Traveler]

This is the moment when your resolve is strongest. What will you do in this moment, to maximize the chances your desired outcome happens, even 1-2 weeks from now when your resolve is at its lowest?

[KitCat]

Do you have any girl friends you could hang out with sometimes?

I really don't

My closest girl friend is 4yr north of me --- but who is meeting me on my vaca to WI. Woo hoo!!!

I joined a woman's meet up group years ago that obviously halted with COVID. We had some meet ups this past summer outside. In a couple of weeks will be an indoor dinner event. Its great - I can have a lovely 2hr hour dinner and visit but none of them are really someone I would hang out with personally - just dissimilar interests and activity levels. I keep going because new people do come and go and someone might really stick to get to know better. I'm a very active 50yr old but in this group the woman tend not to be. I live in a small midwest town so this is the ONLY meet up group.

As for my office - total employee count including myself and boss, 12 people and I'm 15-30yr older than the other woman. They interests seem to center around drinking... LOL!

But the guy who is doing the dog walk challenge with me met up with me last week to take in a performance at the theater last minute. It was strictly platonic and we have great conversations.

[KitCat]

I decided I needed a good 60 to 90 days but frankly better set a goal of 30 days. That's at least 3 times the longest time we have ever gone and won't seem so impossible.

That's an excellent goal. What steps will you take to achieve a better outcome than before?

In the past, you relied on him not contacting you "Now there's no reason, this time he'd never reach out!". Inevitably he did. Willpower helped, but he kept probing until he found a new angle--puppies, quick questions, or kind comments he'd NEVER said before. You may have waited 10 days to reach out, but was typically inside your head sooner than that.

I'm at 8 months no contact with the long-term, live-in XGF who brought me here, and 2 months no contact with my last XGF. Blocking is the forum's usual recommendation. It's HARD to do but frees you completely from their attempts to reel you in, detoxes you. I did send a message to my last XGF informing her I was blocking her to be polite.

You don't have to do the same thing as me. But to achieve an outcome 3x better than before, you have to do something very different than before, or you'll end up at 14 days not 30 days.

So at this point I really can't block him. We still have 2 business items to wrap up from the D. He is currently working on one and its a huge pain in the arse. There will be a point that we will have to meet for docs - I'm hoping it can be done via mail but there are a lot of stupid hoops to jump through for this.

His texts are muted so that if he does text I won't see them right away.

Unless it requires my response as in a business item... I just won't respond. I'm just too emotionally exhausted right now.

As LH said unless he truly shows me something big it just isn't worth my energy.

[Traveler]

So at this point I really can't block him. We still have 2 business items to wrap up from the D.. unless he truly shows me something big

It sounds like this isn't a 30-day detox so much as giving him a chance to miss you and watching for him to offer something big enough to merit a reply? If this is purely business, a simple way to free your headspace is a message like this--

"Hi XH, I'd prefer to conduct business matters via my e-mail minus that one in-person meeting at the notary. I'll check my e-mail weekdays business hours. I'm blocking your personal calls/texts for my sanity. Thanks for understanding."

[Traveler]

More to the point, last time you felt resolve when you began and muted him. If you don't change anything, I'm skeptical you'll achieve 30 days, but I'll be rooting for you.

[LH19]

2 years later and we are still talking about blocking/muting your Exs texts. Seems kind of nuts right?

[Thornton]

2 years later and we are still talking about blocking/muting your Exs texts. Seems kind of nuts right?

I was thinking the same exact thing. Definition of insanity.

[KitCat]

2 years later and we are still talking about blocking/muting your Exs texts. Seems kind of nuts right?

I was thinking the same exact thing. Definition of insanity.

I 100% get it!

He doesn't email.

He is in this minimalist lifestyle. He does not have cable or internet and last I heard he says he is going back to a flip phone.

Texting is all I got.

But I have muted him so I'm not getting notifications. I actually check my email multiple times a day versus I would only check muted texts 2-3 times a week. I mean its like tomato/tamatoe

[Thornton]

Food for thought...

About 5 years ago when I was in thick of my situation there was another poster here who I became really good friends with outside of the board. We are still friends to this day and text with each other often.

She could not let go of her ex-husband. She continued to sleep with him even when he was living with OW. She did this for 4 years hoping it would draw him back in. She became the OW and he happily took advantage of the situation. There was absolutely nothing I could do to talk sense into her so I just let her live her life how she saw fit.

About a year ago, she became bored of the situation and decided to move on with her life. She blocked him and went NC. About 3 months later, he became obsessed with her. He even dumped his fiance as a sign of his commitment. By then it was too late, and she had lost all feelings for him. But he does still check in every few weeks and ask her out, to no avail.

It pretty ironic how when you truly let them go (and mean it), they often come back around.

[KitCat]

Food for thought...

About 5 years ago when I was in thick of my situation there was another poster here who I became really good friends with outside of the board. We are still friends to this day and text with each other often.

She could not let go of her ex-husband. She continued to sleep with him even when he was living with OW. She did this for 4 years hoping it would draw him back in. She became the OW and he happily took advantage of the situation. There was absolutely nothing I could do to talk sense into her so I just let her live her life how she saw fit.

About a year ago, she became bored of the situation and decided to move on with her life. She blocked him and went NC. About 3 months later, he became obsessed with her. He even dumped his fiance as a sign of his commitment. By then it was too late, and she had lost all feelings for him. But he does still check in every few weeks and ask her out, to no avail.

It pretty ironic how when you truly let them go (and mean it), they often come back around.

I very much appreciate the insight!!!

If it weren't for the last 2 business items - 1 is just complicated with lots of hoops and trying to hire a lawyer out of state that you've never met and 2 will require that XH, myself and my son all be present for -- hopefully that is done by summer time, I would definitely go NC. These are the last 2 things on the D that have to be checked off.

The 30 day detox is NOT trying to get him to miss me. It really is because I'm just at a hard place emotionally after yesterday. Just 2mo ago this was all light hearted fun but not yesterday.

I'm serious when I say that we have not gone more than 10 days in the last 2+yr without contact. I get to a place where I realize its been several days and I won't lie, I get anxious but then he checks in... and then I really get anxious because is it ever going to be over??? Its like both things make me anxious.

Despite all that has happened when we are in person together, it just flows. Like no time has passed. There is no naked awkwardness because you know that person flaws and all. We can sit in the jacuzzi bath just talking and I'm like - that's a new mole on your shoulder. There becomes a weird type of comfort there.

But, I don't want to stay stuck here.

As they say sh*t or get off the pot!

I need to find my peace. I need to stop counting those 10 days.

[Valeska19]

He doesn't email.

He is in this minimalist lifestyle. He does not have cable or internet and last I heard he says he is going back to a flip phone.

I am not saying this isn't correct info but you could still also implement an email policy. His minimalist is not your problem. If he absolutely NEEDED to get in touch with you. He would.

If it weren't for the last 2 business items - 1 is just complicated with lots of hoops and trying to hire a lawyer out of state that you've never met and 2 will require that XH, myself and my son all be present for -- hopefully that is done by summer time, I would definitely go NC. These are the last 2 things on the D that have to be checked off..

You can still go NC other than business stuff. It requires you to set boundaries though which you struggle with (which is okay). Not just for him but for yourself.

I'm serious when I say that we have not gone more than 10 days in the last 2+yr without contact. I get to a place where I realize its been several days and I won't lie, I get anxious but then he checks in... and then I really get anxious because is it ever going to be over??? Its like both things make me anxious.

This makes sense. Change is uncomfortable. So is the unknown. It took me months to be okay with NC. Texts, Emails, Phone calls just wrecked my week... eventually the time got shorter but the emotions never clearly went away... finally I just got tired of being in emotional pain. I hope this isn't the case for you... that nothing changes until the hurt gets too much... but sometimes that is life and the only way we listen.

But, I don't want to stay stuck here.

As they say sh*t or get off the pot!

I need to find my peace. I need to stop counting those 10 days.

This is 100% in your control but it involves digging deep within to see why you are doing this. Be brave.. and know that whatever reason you may have is okay. Loss of your most intimate relationship is devastating. Learning to cope, heal, grow, move forward... is a two step forward/one step back process

[KitCat]

He doesn't email.

He is in this minimalist lifestyle. He does not have cable or internet and last I heard he says he is going back to a flip phone.

I am not saying this isn't correct info but you could still also implement an email policy. His minimalist is not your problem. If he absolutely NEEDED to get in touch with you. He would.

I hear you. But then the default would be calling me OR calling me at work. I'd just prefer the text as its much less invasive and easier to mute. Despite the impression I give here I do ignore a lot of texts. I never responded to the "happy valentines day".

If it weren't for the last 2 business items - 1 is just complicated with lots of hoops and trying to hire a lawyer out of state that you've never met and 2 will require that XH, myself and my son all be present for -- hopefully that is done by summer time, I would definitely go NC. These are the last 2 things on the D that have to be checked off..

You can still go NC other than business stuff. It requires you to set boundaries though which you struggle with (which is okay). Not just for him but for yourself.

Yes - that's what I meant to say. I'm only addressing business items if absolutely necessary. Where he would text commentary "this is a pain in the *(^#@" and I would validate his frustration by stating "yes, I can see that it is". I will not reply unless its a direct question that I need to answer to finish the business.

I'm fine and I will be fine.

Tuesday text conversations just threw me for a loop and right now I'm just angry - not so much at my XH. I'm just really angry at someone else. I just need to sit with my feelings for a bit, process and find away to let that anger go. I know that their behavior is a reflection of who they truly are and nothing at all to do with me at this point.

Thanks for all your input!!!!

[KitCat]

On one hand this weekend was a particularly hard one for me to get through. No reason to go into details but I got through it - this is a milestone with XH. If I gave it any thought I recognized my thought and feeling and moved forward.

On the other it was also particularly frustrating. While I heard from pilot as he responded to my apology I'm still left scratching my head over this misunderstanding. Like if we could just actually talk in person and not via text maybe the misunderstanding could be seen for what it is - a lapse in effective communication. So that makes me sad for sure. I'm not going to chase him.

I leave for my trip on Friday. Its still up in the air if my friend is going to be able to come too given her current family issues. I did just check with the resort that it is not pet friendly. I had arrangements for my dog already but felt that if my friend didn't make he would be a good second wingman!

I'm trying to have zero expectations in regards to pilot. My new mantra... if he wanted to, he would.

[LH19]

Remind me again what the issue is with the pilot.

[KitCat]

Remind me again what the issue is with the pilot.

So he was coming home from a long week out of town and asked about meeting up eluding to also having sex.

I replied that I was available Saturday but I was looking for more than a hook up. When he got back to me the next day he stated no one said anything about a hook up and that me wanted to make me cum multiple times.

NOW - I get it. We've dated before, but we've only been on 2 dates. While I'm wildly attracted to him and have had a very sexual relationship before, I'm just moving more cautiously. I don't want to screw this up. You know from my past posts that I have no issue being wild and daring. I've sent him plenty of visual texts in the past, etc.

I let him know I did not want to say "no" to his offer but that I was looking for more. For an example I just stated I'd like to know what the weirdest part of his week was or what kind of goals for summer time. This was a very poorly worded text trying to hide my insecurities... that while I truly desired him I just wasn't at the next step.

Well we are talking text messages - 7% of communication tops.

After coming home from a long week he took that to mean I could not have sex unless I asked him 50 questions? and that he had no interest in that if someone could not be willing to show up with a drink naked when he first got home and wait 24hr before questions.

Whoa... I totally get that. That was not my intent at all.

I tried apologizing for miscommunicating and just wanted to say that his expectation was not unreasonable and I had no qualms with that. I was just trying to say I was not quite ready for sex.

Again - was that me rejecting him? his advances? Trying to lighten the mood a little and to let him know I was interested I sent two explicit photos (nothing that I haven't sent before.) I totally get how that is a complete mixed message. I was never saying no to sex. I wasn't even saying I needed 4 months. We had only been out twice since he got back in touch with me. H3ll I didn't sleep with him the last time until the 4th date. Frankly, if I hadn't felt pressure I may very well have slept with him on the 3rd date but in general I don't have sex until 3 dates. I guess the rules may be different when its someone you dated before???

His response was that he was not interested in a crazy train. I clearly had no problem having sex with him while I was going through a divorce and suddenly I'm not ready for sex. He has a lot on his plate. If someone is interested in him its everything, wild sex and all or not. He is not into games.

Well, I'm not into games either. I was not asking him to wait months... I just wanted another date to get to know him again. But --- was I communicating that properly??? And, yes I'm 100% guilty of sending a mixed message. I will 100% admit I was dealing my insecurities - the D hit hard on my self esteem. I'm soon to be 53 and body image is always a woman's achilie's heel.

I feel that if we just talked - rather than I text... then he texts the next day... and then its 24hr before I text back, that this could have been resolved in a 5min conversation. I really like him... I was attracted to him a year ago and I'm attracted to him now.

Instead I have to accept that I may not hear from him again.

I'm just frustrated...

[Ginger1]

There is no miscommunication . He wants a hook up that requires no effort, no emotional connection. Just a sexual one.

I don’t know why you keep thinking of you say something different they will want something different. You can’t make someone want something that they don’t. Now matter how much you try to change into something you think they want.

He wants a sexual connection. That’s it. You want more.

Time to move on

[LH19]

I replied that I was available Saturday but I was looking for more than a hook up. When he got back to me the next day he stated no one said anything about a hook up and that me wanted to make me cum multiple times.

So in pilot fantasy camp it's not a hook up if you have multiple orgasms lol.

NOW - I get it. We've dated before, but we've only been on 2 dates. While I'm wildly attracted to him and have had a very sexual relationship before, I'm just moving more cautiously. I don't want to screw this up. You know from my past posts that I have no issue being wild and daring. I've sent him plenty of visual texts in the past, etc.

This is why he thinks a hook up is no big deal! He's probably confused as fuch right now.

I let him know I did not want to say "no" to his offer but that I was looking for more. For an example I just stated I'd like to know what the weirdest part of his week was or what kind of goals for summer time. This was a very poorly worded text trying to hide my insecurities... that while I truly desired him I just wasn't at the next step.

What insecurities are you hiding?

After coming home from a long week he took that to mean I could not have sex unless I asked him 50 questions? and that he had no interest in that if someone could not be willing to show up with a drink naked when he first got home and wait 24hr before questions.

Does this guy by chance wear a robe?

Whoa... I totally get that. That was not my intent at all.

Well how many questions does he have to answer?

I tried apologizing for miscommunicating and just wanted to say that his expectation was not unreasonable and I had no qualms with that. I was just trying to say I was not quite ready for sex.

How about yo dueche bag I am not a whore and am not going to come fuch your brains out no matter how many organisms you give me?

Trying to lighten the mood a little and to let him know I was interested I sent two explicit photos (nothing that I haven't sent before.)

So do you see why he treats you this way?

I totally get how that is a complete mixed message. I was never saying no to sex. I wasn't even saying I needed 4 months. We had only been out twice since he got back in touch with me. H3ll I didn't sleep with him the last time until the 4th date. Frankly, if I hadn't felt pressure I may very well have slept with him on the 3rd date but in general I don't have sex until 3 dates. I guess the rules may be different when its someone you dated before???

Sleep with a man when you feel safe and comfortable that he is not using you for sex

His response was that he was not interested in a crazy train.

Sounds like you are not a match.

I clearly had no problem having sex with him while I was going through a divorce and suddenly I'm not ready for sex.

oh yeah. This makes sense to me.

He has a lot on his plate. If someone is interested in him its everything, wild sex and all or not. He is not into games.

no. Sleep with him or you are out.

Well, I'm not into games either. I was not asking him to wait months... I just wanted another date to get to know him again. But --- was I communicating that properly??? And, yes I'm 100% guilty of sending a mixed message. I will 100% admit I was dealing my insecurities - the D hit hard on my self esteem. I'm soon to be 53 and body image is always a woman's achilie's heel.

This guy is not going to be any good for your self esteem.

I feel that if we just talked - rather than I text... then he texts the next day... and then its 24hr before I text back, that this could have been resolved in a 5min conversation. I really like him... I was attracted to him a year ago and I'm attracted to him now..

You are a booty call. Nothing more.

Instead I have to accept that I may not hear from him again.

Unless you sleep with him.

I'm just frustrated...

Time to ditch the dueche bags in your life so you can be open to something real.

[Traveler]

he locked me down on a date and time.. He knew I was out of state for a family thing that day but it was not a problem for me to leave early to meet him for drinks. I would be home at X time. When I got home I texted him - got a kind of crabby response so I just said so we are not meeting for drinks tonight - we set this up 2 days ago? Got an even crabbier response so I just said "Hey, I get it your tired. Get some rest and we will do this some other time".

I started accepting this guy for who he is and that if I'm going to date him I'm going to have to make allowances for some odd behaviors/expectations. ys.

I replied I'm free on Saturday but I'm looking for more than a hook up. He gets back to me the next day "No one said anything about a hook up. I want to give you multiple O's" "Well I don't ever want to say no to that! Physical attraction is great but I really need emotional and intellectual attraction as well. Like what was the weirdest thing this week or what something you want to do this year."

His response was he goes to work a week at a time, comes home exhausted and drained and doesn't want to answer 50questions just to stimulate someone. That if someone can't answer the door with a drink and nothing on and wait a day before a barrage of questions then its not for me. Call me pig or whatever I don't want to be interrogated to get into the door or for sex.

"I understand. I apologize. I did not mean to add to an already stressful week. Showing up a door with a cocktail and nothing on is fun and easy enough if it puts a smile on you face. I just wanted to get to know you. I'm sorry I made you feel interrogated."

KitKat, you view this as primarily a miscommunication? The vibe I get is someone who doesn't value you and wants easy sex, like XH. You can't put lipstick on a pig! The "guy friends" who hang out with you week after week enjoy your company even without sex. If I recall correctly you met most of them on dating sites. Were there any YOU turned down, still single, who may be up for another go if you asked? I get it's not as thrilling as your usual types, or sex in the woods or highway, but it may be worth trying a partner who values you, the connection may make the intimacy better than you expect!

[KitCat]

LH and Travler ---

I hear all those things and those are not things I have not said to myself.

He walked out a year ago because I was still married and didn't think I would be divorced. So if he's just looking for a hook up/sex, is that a normal line to make in the sand. He would not even speak to me again until I was D.

As for on line dating after the last date I went on (pre-hooking back up with pilot) I removed myself from all sites and decided on a 6mo hiatus from them.

Both guys I am friends with are nice guys. At first both were into me, but as you see I'm bit of an odd duck myself... which is why I get pilot to an extent.

I'm not looking for thrilling so much as I am calm and steady.

I'm just frustrated, angry, sad... I know I have to work through this. And, if he was truly interested as long as what I said was sincere it would never be the wrong thing if it were the right person. He's just not that into me.

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

[BL42]

KitCat,

He walked out a year ago because I was still married and didn't think I would be divorced. So if he's just looking for a hook up/sex, is that a normal line to make in the sand. He would not even speak to me again until I was D.

On the one hand, good for him - you don't want a guy who wants to date married women. On the other hand it could've just been a convenient excuse to not get closer.

I'm not looking for thrilling so much as I am calm and steady.

Sex w/ExH in a car or a thrist with a pilot in from out of town doesn't scream "calm and steady".

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

Good. Don't chase. Work on yourself.

KitCat - I get the distinct impression from your posts pilot is just looking for some easy steamy sex between flying from one place to another. He may even have similar situations lined up in other cities. If that's all you want, fine, but I do not get that impression. In terms of ExH he seems to be a hot mess and not know what he wants. My take would be turn away from both of them, focus on your own life and work on why you're into those type of guys. Maybe that'll lead to meeting you'll meet a calm and steady person.

[Ginger1]

Sigh. He didn’t want to mess with a married woman. If I recall he also sensed your attachment to your exH. And guess what? You are still attached as you are having sex with him and have been and wish for more.


The pilot couldn’t be any clearer her through his words and actions that all he wants is some hot easy sex. And yeah, I bet he finds you a little “crazy” when one moment you are telling him you want to hear about his plans for the summer before having sex with him and the next yij are sending dirty photos.

You are all over the place, trying to heal the pain of each one of your rejections with the other one.

I know this hurts, but you are prolonging your heart. When are you just going to step back from the crazy? You are torturing yourself and you are getting yourself no where near calm and easy. You yourself are acting frantic. You are all over the place.


Step away from the toxic men. Step towards a healthier not so desperate appearing KK. Find your own calm and easy. You attract what you put out there

[LH19]

He walked out a year ago because I was still married and didn't think I would be divorced.

Why are you so quick to believe that was the reason?

So if he's just looking for a hook up/sex, is that a normal line to make in the sand. He would not even speak to me again until I was D.

Uuuummm yeah! It's an easy way to let you down easy.

As for on line dating after the last date I went on (pre-hooking back up with pilot) I removed myself from all sites and decided on a 6mo hiatus from them.

I am curious to why so a long hiatus?

Both guys I am friends with are nice guys. At first both were into me, but as you see I'm bit of an odd duck myself... which is why I get pilot to an extent.

KK you and the pilot are not the same person. I think you are looking for something real though I am really not sure due to the ex husband thing. The pilot is a player. There is a difference.

I'm not looking for thrilling so much as I am calm and steady.

Not sure you can handle calm and steady.

I'm just frustrated, angry, sad... I know I have to work through this.

All normal emotions. Dating at 53 for a woman is not easy.

And, if he was truly interested as long as what I said was sincere it would never be the wrong thing if it were the right person. He's just not that into me.

Ding ding ding. I wouldn't take it personal he is not into anyone long term.

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

Ok I do not want to invalidate your feelings but heart broken???? It may be time for ....wait for it.... therapy.........

[Traveler]

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

Kit, I get you’re feeling heartbroken and I’m sorry you’re going through that ((hugs)). Feeling hearttbroken for someone you barely know after two dates (and again after another two dates) is unusual, but we get you’ve never taken enough space from XH to fully grieve, nor gotten therapy. Would you be willing to block and no contact pilot? Hereby, letting go of the hope that someday he’ll change and text you for more? Reducing the toxic (for you) man count in your life from 2 to 1 would be a success. It’s not easy, but once the chord is 100% cut you can more fully grieve and move on.

[DonH]

Although I have never watched them, I’ve been told you can take a break from a soap opera for a year or more and pick right back up where you left off. It feels like I just did the same here. I’m terrible with remembering screen names and who did what and all, but then it came to me, oh yeah, i remember now. I even double checked the posting dates to make sure I didn’t somehow stumble back on old posts. Nothing has changed. How sad. Glad you are back posting though. Means there still is some hope.

[KitCat]

He walked out a year ago because I was still married and didn't think I would be divorced.

Why are you so quick to believe that was the reason?

Because everything was fine and when he found out I was traveling on my STBXH frequent flyer miles he flipped and didn't talk to me again for 11months.

He waited until the ink was dry on D before reaching out again.

As for on line dating after the last date I went on (pre-hooking back up with pilot) I removed myself from all sites and decided on a 6mo hiatus from them.

I am curious to why so a long hiatus?

Burn out.

Both guys I am friends with are nice guys. At first both were into me, but as you see I'm bit of an odd duck myself... which is why I get pilot to an extent.

KK you and the pilot are not the same person. I think you are looking for something real though I am really not sure due to the ex husband thing. The pilot is a player. There is a difference.

I am looking for long term. Funny enough, Pilot asked if I was player during our first attempt at dating.

I'm not looking for thrilling so much as I am calm and steady.

Not sure you can handle calm and steady.

I very much long for calm and steady. I think you know from my prior posts that my XH had some serious road rage issues.

I should not be alive.

Only because my XH is incredibly gifted at handling a vehicle and knowing exactly how far to push it I am still here.

Multiple 360's on a water logged bridge during a heavy downpour and driving way to fast for road conditions. By the grace of GOD did he get it under control before we went over.

Driving 85mph on the right shoulder in a pissing match with another car on an heavy traffic interstate.

Mind you we are driving a ducking 5 speed Ford Fiesta - but what he lacked in power my XH could outmaneuver ANYONE. Cutting in and out of traffic with mere inches to spare.

I got to a point I never let XH drive me anywhere for years and it made him angry. I always drove. I'd rather put up with him screaming at me than risk my life.

On our last date, pilot drove us out of town to dinner. His manner is calm. His voice is calm. We never left the right lane of the interstate. There was no gunning an engine or calling someone a douche just because they drove a Honda.

^^^^^ That was the calm and peace I desperately needed. He has no idea what that meant to me.

And, if he was truly interested as long as what I said was sincere it would never be the wrong thing if it were the right person. He's just not that into me.

Ding ding ding. I wouldn't take it personal he is not into anyone long term.

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

Ok I do not want to invalidate your feelings but heart broken???? It may be time for ....wait for it.... therapy.........

Please don't invalidate my feelings. I am allowed to feel whatever I feel. You may not agree but it doesn't make what I feel less than.

I've done way more work personally in the last year.

I'm still allowed disappointments. It doesn't mean I'm broken as a person.

I probably having a bigger tolerance for compassion and understanding than the average person.

I'm sad but I'm not staying stuck.

I'm ducking amazing. I'm wicked smart. I have a successful career making bank. I'm financially secure. I have no debt but what is still minimally owed on my house which the $200k in equity is all mine as well.

He's the idiot.

If there was something better than me he surely would have found it in the last year or in the 8yr prior to meeting me.

[KitCat]

Its gonna take a bit to get my heart unbroke from this... but I will not be chasing him like I did last time.

Kit, I get you’re feeling heartbroken and I’m sorry you’re going through that ((hugs)). Feeling hearttbroken for someone you barely know after two dates (and again after another two dates) is unusual, but we get you’ve never taken enough space from XH to fully grieve, nor gotten therapy. Would you be willing to block and no contact pilot? Hereby, letting go of the hope that someday he’ll change and text you for more? Reducing the toxic (for you) man count in your life from 2 to 1 would be a success. It’s not easy, but once the chord is 100% cut you can more fully grieve and move on.

To be frank I never expected to hear from him again.

When I did I was cautious.

I'm more disappointed that why the F did you come back to just have a repeat performance. I certainly didn't need it.

I'm processing my feelings and moving on. Sure, it could have been a lot of fun but if I'm willing to meet him half way the simple fact that he could not do the same speaks volumes. Over and out.

[KitCat]

Although I have never watched them, I’ve been told you can take a break from a soap opera for a year or more and pick right back up where you left off. It feels like I just did the same here. I’m terrible with remembering screen names and who did what and all, but then it came to me, oh yeah, i remember now. I even double checked the posting dates to make sure I didn’t somehow stumble back on old posts. Nothing has changed. How sad. Glad you are back posting though. Means there still is some hope.

And --- you have free will. Don't watch. Change the channel.

I don't need your judgement and I didn't ask for it.

LH asked for an update and so I posted.

[LH19]

I'm still allowed disappointments. It doesn't mean I'm broken as a person.

KK I didn't say you shouldn't be disappointed. I questioned a broken heart. Last year I dated a girl for about 3.5 months where things were going really well. We were exclusive seeing each other when we could. One day I get a text that she heard from her ex boyfriend and needed time to think things through. I gracefully bowed out. Was I disappointed? Yes. Was I heart broken? No. My heart wasn't hers to break we were just getting to know each other. I never contacted her again and accepted her decision. This is what all of this pain teaches us.

I'm ducking amazing. I'm wicked smart. I have a successful career making bank. I'm financially secure. I have no debt but what is still minimally owed on my house which the $200k in equity is all mine as well.

If you truly believe this then why are you settling for two idiots?

If there was something better than me he surely would have found it in the last year or in the 8yr prior to meeting me.

KK I don't think you understand what this guy is all about. It is not you personally. He is a player.

[Traveler]

KitCat, if you switch channels again, please let us know where to find you. There are one or two handfuls of stories I return to hear updates on, and yours is one of them.

Battlestar Galactica! Well, whether you're a fan of the Classic or Reimagined--huge fan of Edward James Olmos here--I think the difference was Adama and crew expected the frack to end and a good outcome when they reached Earth. So say we all. This forum feels more like The Walking Dead where we watch people get off'd one by one. Whether it's due to lack of new content, the vibe, or search engine optimization.. in the end WHY IT'S DYING matters less than IT IS DYING when the owner's not committed to trying. Please note, I'm full of appreciation for our mod team.

As for the "calm"--I so get it. My father endangered my life. My XW was a physical danger. My XGF was verbally abusive. Ms. Sunshine would say ILU one date and not kiss me the next.

My current partner K has NOT said ILU and last night was the first time we just chatted about our days on the phone. But, each time I see her she kisses me, she's kind, and she's curious about my day. WHAT?! We have to remind ourselves that we didn't strike the lottery--this is normal behavior. Most people are not crazy drivers. I've done many road trips. I can't recall any road ragers. I recall only one person I felt uncomfortable because she tailgated everyone at 80-90mph. She had quick reflexes, BUT we're both smart and know there are limits to human reflexes, and limits to break systems (his Fiesta or her Lexus), and how much stopping distance even the most attuned of drivers need. Most people out there are normal drivers and don't road rage. Most people out there when they like someone will kiss them, be kind, and be curious about our days.

Rambling a bit. I hope you get your needs met via friends or supportive people on the Internet. I hope, the next time you think about being partnered up, you cast your net for someone new. Showing ANY fury or anger within a few dates is unusual and a red flag. Most will wait 4-6 dates for sex if intimacy is increasing and they're enjoying your company. We've both missed red flags. Taking things a little slower for potential LTRs is a good remedy. THEN, you are clearly a creative lover, enjoy the sex!

[Traveler]

Corrections:
"break systems" -> "brake systems"
"We're both smart" -> "We're both smart after our coffee"

[KitCat]

I'm still allowed disappointments. It doesn't mean I'm broken as a person.

KK I didn't say you shouldn't be disappointed. I questioned a broken heart. Last year I dated a girl for about 3.5 months where things were going really well. We were exclusive seeing each other when we could. One day I get a text that she heard from her ex boyfriend and needed time to think things through. I gracefully bowed out. Was I disappointed? Yes. Was I heart broken? No. My heart wasn't hers to break we were just getting to know each other. I never contacted her again and accepted her decision. This is what all of this pain teaches us.

For the all the love that is holy please do not think I'm like this with everyone I date...

I've had many dates over the last year.

I had a couple of dates with a guy. He was wanting something more serious committed than where I was out with him. I didn't know him that well but I didn't want to hold him back from what he was looking for. I bowed out and wished him well. He came back all apologetic that he was chasing the wrong thing. We went out again but I was a point where I just said I'm focusing on tidying up my D. We were in the last 90 days after a year and 1/2 of limbo. I was focusing more on friendship and having fun... taking the time to get to know someone before being committed. Again, he was wanting a bigger commitment and said so... I let him go again.

I've been on dates and there will be light texting after the date but I really leave it up to the guy to pursue asking me out again. Sometimes they just don't for whatever reason and I let them go.

I don't bat an eye, shed a tear or give a flying F.

I don't want you thinking I'm hung up on every guy I date. Soooo, far from the truth.

I think I made the mistake when pilot came back around that we were just dipping our toes back in the water to see if there was something still there... but he literally seemed to act like we were just picking back up where we left things 11mo ago.

Its just a trainwreck and not one worth revisiting any longer.

[Ginger1]

You say you are amazing , wicked smart, financial secure, etc.
Any guy would be lucky to have you, right ?

So why are you sleeping with your abusive ex husband who cheated on you and left you? And heartbroken by some guy you went on a few dates with who only wants sex. And yes, he only wants sex. Can you see the disconnect here ?

[LH19]

I don't want you thinking I'm hung up on every guy I date. Soooo, far from the truth.

No just a Don Juan pilot using you for sex and an abusive ex husband.

So you would give the pilot commitment and not the other guy?

[KitCat]

I don't want you thinking I'm hung up on every guy I date. Soooo, far from the truth.

No just a Don Juan pilot using you for sex and an abusive ex husband.

So you would give the pilot commitment and not the other guy?

Timing....

I had history with pilot.

I had very little history with this other guy... and had trouble making a true connection. But, when he popped back into my life I had made the commitment to wrap up my D. I was honest with him. I wanted to look into building a friendship first. Hang out, get to know each other... I was open to that. He decided he was not.

I'm not going to apologize for falling for a guy. He's not that in to me... I get it. I've not been bothering him/texting him/just getting my crap together.

[Valeska19]

Hey KC,
I'm not gonna comment one way or the other.. as you will learn whatever you need to when you need to.

I am gonna say though that I notice a pattern of how you respond to us when we ask you certain questions. You are very defensive. Full of reasons to explain why what you do. If I remember correctly - I believe you took a break from the board because you felt like you are being judged

It does seem to look the questions trigger you a bit. In your time away from us - have you looked at why that is? Why you feel such judgement when we ask you hard questions?

Might be a 180 for you to answer in a different way.

[LH19]

I was honest with him. I wanted to look into building a friendship first. Hang out, get to know each other... I was open to that. He decided he was not.

Because that is what players do. Cut ties when it becomes more than sex.

I'm not going to apologize for falling for a guy.

You don't have to apologize to anyone.

He's not that in to me... I get it.

Uuuuuummmm I am not sure you do.

I've not been bothering him/texting him/just getting my crap together.

Do you have a silencer on his texts too?

[Traveler]

I've been on dates and there will be light texting after the date but I really leave it up to the guy to pursue asking me out again. Sometimes they just don't for whatever reason and I let them go.

I don't bat an eye, shed a tear or give a flying F.

KK, when I read this I'm like.. hmm.. your "instant chemistry" picker led you to pilot and before that you were with xh. Those were toxic relationships. Logically, your picker like mine may be off. It may be worth giving people you don't feel instant chemistry with an extra date or two, and people you do feel instant chemistry with an extra date or two before intimacy is on the table? That probably makes good sense to your intellectual mind, right? Just throwing it out there. (:

I do believe you're compassionate, creative, and smart--you deserve better partners!

[quote=KitKat]I had a couple of dates with a guy. He was wanting something more serious committed than where I was out with him. I didn't know him that well but I didn't want to hold him back from what he was looking for. I bowed out and wished him well. He came back all apologetic that he was chasing the wrong thing. We went out again but I was a point where I just said I'm focusing on tidying up my D. We were in the last 90 days after a year and 1/2 of limbo. I was focusing more on friendship and having fun... taking the time to get to know someone before being committed. Again, he was wanting a bigger commitment and said so... I let him go again.

You had a couple of good dates and he says, "I'm looking for a committed relationship." You weren't ready then--cool. "For now, I just want to have fun and see what happens." I'm going to propose bowing out wasn't entirely *for him* to keep from *holding him back*. All you had to do to achieve that is communicate what you were open to. He's then empowered to continue if and only if he feels it's worth the risk. It sounds like he felt you were worth the risk. Stating your boundaries and letting others decide if it works for them is strong, vulnerable. Ceding some control. Anyway, I seem to recall there were other things amiss about that particular guy so I believe you made the right move for you. Just a thought for the next time around!

[Traveler]

Nothing has changed. How sad

It does seem to look the questions trigger you a bit. In your time away from us - have you looked at why that is? Why you feel such judgement when we ask you hard questions?

Valeska, I've thought on this for myself. FWIW, sometimes, a hard question or joke is preceded by a comment that's judgmental ("Nothing has changed."--those ALL and NOTHINGs comments!) On the Internet it can be easy to see the following hard questions or jokes through the same lens even if the opinions of the following poster are different. That is to say, from time to time I know I've taken well-meaning comments from amazing people more harshly than intended. For me, the solution was a small break. For Steve, the solution was to block someone who regularly distracted him. My personal opinion is *some* things haven't changed. I'm happy *other* things are going well for KK and I hope she feels supported in the way you wrote on the other thread even as she's asked hard questions.

[KitCat]

Okay --- this is just getting nuts.

I had more than 2 dates with pilot. When we first met I did not even give him ANY serious consideration until after the 3rd date.

As for the other guy. I made myself available. I even reached out and invited him out the first time around AND the second time he reached out to try again. The ball was 100% in his court. I will attest the second time I was focused on the final wrapping up of the D but I was honest about it.

I will NOT be made to feel bad because I chose to be focused on my XH regardless of his issues. I'm not some saint. I chose to focus on over the decade we had together.

My choice may not have been your choice... but F Off. It was mine to make.

I don't need judgements.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TYPED OUT - I'M NOT PUTTING UP WITH PILOT ANY LONGER AND I'M LEAVING IT GO.

Stop talking like I'm still pursuing this guy. geesh...

[LH19]

Eaaasyyyyyy there girl.

We are just pointing out your propensity for toxic relationships.

We will stand down.

[KitCat]

This why this board is not thriving and won't survive.

It will be the same 6 people kicking it in the sand box.

I got disappointed by pilot because I had expectations. He bothered coming back so I was hopeful that it might be because there was something more there.

I had a right to process my feelings, be disappointed. But, I was the one to say... I get it he is not that into me.

LH probed more questions which I honestly answered. But, I kept accepting that there was nothing more for me to do.

Everyone else chimes in about how nothing has changed.

How about you take a minute and go KK - great! I'm glad you can see pursuing this with pilot is not your best option. That's positive... not the negative spouting of my bad taste in toxic men. WTH... I just said several pages ago I was no longer contacting him. I processed the last text he sent me here for context... and let it go.

Everything has changed. I've changed.

All of you need to take a step back and look at how you approach things and people. THIS is the reason this board is failing.

[Traveler]

Everyone else chimes in about how nothing has changed.

Don said nothing had changed. I explicitly disagreed.

I get you’re feeling judged. That wasn’t my intention. I will bow out and wish you an amazing life. (:

[KitCat]

I get you’re feeling judged. That wasn’t my intention. I will bow out and wish you amazing luck. (:

You and LH are probably the least judgy people on the board.

Negative Nancy's don't win.

I may have gotten 3 things out of 10 wrong on the test. Focusing on the 3 things I got wrong doesn't necessarily help me if THAT's all you do over and over. There were 7 things I got right.

I just think its important to remember that there are actual people on the other side of this. When there is animinity its so easy to throw shade, but take a minute and look what the person might be getting right.

The only reason I spending some time to say something is that multiple people recognize this board is failing and not being utilized as a resource. Sit down and ask your whys.

Why might this be happening?

Why is this other board so successful with thousands world wide and we haven't had a new member since when?

This is the only board where I have been bombarded in such a way as this. I'm saying its not very helpful and a newby coming to the board isn't going to open up to such judgement, especially when other resources are available.

Everyone needs to have an open heart.

[LH19]

KK on the surface nothing has changed as far as the pilot and your ex husband seem to be the main focus as far as men go in your life. That doesn't mean that you haven't changed but you must admit that you are clearly not seeing patterns that are obvious to us.

I think you actually had the best explanation why the board has changed. I am also curious to the 3 reasons why people leave marriages that you cited. I have also read about 3 and curious to if they are the same. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Do you think you ever really had anytime to grieve the end of your marriage?

[KitCat]

KK on the surface nothing has changed as far as the pilot and your ex husband seem to be the main focus as far as men go in your life. That doesn't mean that you haven't changed but you must admit that you are clearly not seeing patterns that are obvious to us.

I think you actually had the best explanation why the board has changed. I am also curious to the 3 reasons why people leave marriages that you cited. I have also read about 3 and curious to if they are the same. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Do you think you ever really had anytime to grieve the end of your marriage?

It seems that way because I came back and shared my story at this particular time. 3mo ago or 6mo later... different story.

I never expected pilot to reach out again. I had written him off. I liked him enough the last time to try again. I just got burned a second time and that [censored], but I'm okay because what if it had worked out? Wouldn't that have been amazing? I'm that person. The glass is half full.

As for my EX. I was done. I had written him off the beginning of last July. He would text and I replied only via email. He would text me in response to that email... I waited until I could email him again. I was DONE. Then I got a text that was different... so I took a chance. And, EX was different. Was he trusting enough to think that things would stay different that he stopped the D. He did not... but he kept coming round after the D. He would ramp up his texting when I left town. I got to a point where I realized I wasn't getting what I needed. Right now there is nothing but space between us. It will stay that way until he ever decides he wants it to be different again... and if I'm available we'll see BUT, I am not putting my life on hold for him.

So I was letting my M go but I suppose they feel some rift in the force and come back just to make sure you're moving on just yet... because you never know... they may have made a mistake.

As for the reasons people divorce. They are quite simple. I do not feel you like me. I do not feel you love me. I do not feel you respect me. Research documented by Gottman.

I may have not like my XH at times but I always loved him and did my best to respect. BUT, the key factor is my XH did not feel those things from me. No matter how many things I could list that I do for him... he felt those things were hung over his head and didn't truly feel what he need to. I accept that. I accept at the time we did not have the proper communication tools. Its easy to get into a rut.

I thought we were slowly getting there - esp in December. But, he's pulled back again. And, just like Pilot I'm not chasing him either. He knows where to find me.

[Traveler]

I hear that you feel like we focused on your few potential wrongs and ignored your many potential rights. You don't like feeling incoming negativity and judgment. You believe maybe we're not seeing the human being on the other side of the Internet anonymity curtain. You don't feel good posting here. You suspect this affects others, too.

I hear what you're saying. I'm a human posting, too, and it doesn't feel good to contribute to what you describe as everyone making this environment toxic for you. I'm glad you found a place you feel safe. We all should have one. Peace and love. (:

[LH19]

I never expected pilot to reach out again. I had written him off.

It's funny how the NC thing works. They always come back for a peek at some point.

I liked him enough the last time to try again. I just got burned a second time and that [censored], but I'm okay because what if it had worked out?

Sound reasonable. Though remember fool me thrice that's 100% on you!

So I was letting my M go but I suppose they feel some rift in the force and come back just to make sure you're moving on just yet... because you never know... they may have made a mistake.

Funny how that works.

As for the reasons people divorce. They are quite simple. I do not feel you like me. I do not feel you love me. I do not feel you respect me. Research documented by Gottman.

I remember the last relationship talk we had I said "I am sorry I didn't make you feel more loved" she said "that's not it I always felt you loved me". Pretty sure mine was the third. She would say it sometimes. She wasn't wrong. Some of her actions and choices I did not respect but I should have handled it better. I also accept at the time we did not have the proper communication tools. Its easy to get into a rut.

I thought we were slowly getting there - esp in December. But, he's pulled back again. And, just like Pilot I'm not chasing him either. He knows where to find me.

If you stick to this you can't lose!

[Thornton]

I think the universe has a way of teaching us lessons over and over again until we we've mastered ourselves.

In my case, I got back with my ex several times. And like clockwork, each time she burned me. It was a lesson I had to learn, and the universe kept presenting me with the same challenge over and over again until I decided to do something different.

One thing I've learned is that my best thinking is what got me into my mess. And it wasn't until I truly surrendered to the fact that maybe some of the fine folks on this board had ideas that were better than mine, that I began to grow and experience life in a new light.

[KitCat]

I think the universe has a way of teaching us lessons over and over again until we we've mastered ourselves.

In my case, I got back with my ex several times. And like clockwork, each time she burned me. It was a lesson I had to learn, and the universe kept presenting me with the same challenge over and over again until I decided to do something different.

One thing I've learned is that my best thinking is what got me into my mess. And it wasn't until I truly surrendered to the fact that maybe some of the fine folks on this board had ideas that were better than mine, that I began to grow and experience life in a new light.

I have ZERO problem with that.

Except that I was already saying over and over ---- I'm NOT pursuing pilot anymore. I'm done. I'm processing my feelings which are mine and valid for me but I'm 100% aware that I will not be chasing this man.

Yet.... pages and pages later all I get is how I'm still stuck and and I've never changed and how I'm going after toxic men. Its like none of them took the time to see that YES, I was hurt by pilot... but I'm done. You don't need to keep flogging a dead horse.

Same with my XH. I already said the reasons I needed to detox several pages ago. Yes, I have deal with. The fact that I can put those things out here is healing. You realize when someone is emotionally abused being able finally bring those things to light, accept them and not feel shamed by them is a HUGE step.

Yet... I'm still being flogged yet again for my toxic choices in men... but if you had really read my thread you would see I'm putting plenty of space between myself and my XH. I want my peace... I want 90 days of freedom from him. At a minimum at least 30. We still have business items but I'm not initiating and if he contacts me I will not be responding to texts like "this atty is dumb butt", "I can't believe its taking this long". I am only repsonding if he states "paperwork is all done, it just needs our notarized signatures".

I don't need to be continually flogged.

Sure, I gave LH an update when it happened that both pilot and my XH showed back up. Turned out neither is really at a point of healthy relationship.... I'm not pursuing either one right now.

^^^Seems like people are picking what they choose to read/respond to. It has nothing with me not being open to peoples suggestions. I'm already choosing not to pursue either.

[KitCat]

As for the reasons people divorce. They are quite simple. I do not feel you like me. I do not feel you love me. I do not feel you respect me. Research documented by Gottman.

I remember the last relationship talk we had I said "I am sorry I didn't make you feel more loved" she said "that's not it I always felt you loved me". Pretty sure mine was the third. She would say it sometimes. She wasn't wrong. Some of her actions and choices I did not respect but I should have handled it better. I also accept at the time we did not have the proper communication tools. Its easy to get into a rut.

There were maybe psuedo relationship talk about a month ago. Sometimes he would get angry and make statements like "you get to pursue what you want" sort of in an envious tone... or I would get the pensive "do you think you could be different with me?"... to the defensive "you want to impress me then go out and find a new, nice guy"... the pouty "you already have another guy on the line". Leading up to that month was more exploration on his part like "how was your day?", "good weekend", "is this pink eye".

Maybe if I could have just continued more just being pleasant and not having expectations he would have ventured even more close but it seems like he's a ferral cat darting back into the alley.

I just don't have the energy right now. It doesn't mean I don't have the desire. I'm okay either way. I've a got 10 day adventure to WI and in April I've booked travel with myself and my dog to do underground kyaking (dog will not be kyaking... LOL). I'm still mastering the uke. Just bought tix to opening day of our minor bb team. I'm not sitting in my castle hoping to be rescued by some man; I can rescue myself.

[LH19]

I'm okay either way.

This is good. I just wouldn't waste any time or effort on him. If he wants to recon you will know without a doubt. I highly doubt he has the capacity to do the work but stranger things have happened.

[KitCat]

LH - I didn't want to hijack another's thread.

I do 100% hear you.

I have no idea what pilot is looking for long term. We haven't had that talk yet. I'm okay dating someone for awhile before even having that talk.

The guy I mentioned from the dating site - we've hung out several times platonically over the last year before he even brought it up. I'm just saying that if I guy tells me that I have no intention of trying to change their mind.

If pilot and I get to a place where we have that conversation, I will believe him.

Right now we just got through a miscommunication. I'm all about having fun and getting to know him... if it works it works, but I'm okay walking too. Our biggest mistake is using texting as our primary means of communication... but that's dating life these days.

[LH19]

So what are the plans for you and the pilot?

[KitCat]

So what are the plans for you and the pilot?

I don't really have any plans except to see how things flow for right now.

He's busy hopping time zones right now. He gets home the same day I leave.

I'm figuring out that he needs some serious down time when he gets home so I need to respect that and not come across as making any demands on him. That's not unreasonable.

He's been chatty these last couple of days. I'm feeling heard and I'm assuming that he is too or I suspect he would not be chatty.

I think what's best for me is to continue to date and have fun. Only time will tell if my emotional needs will be met, but there is no need to rush into that. Depending on work schedules I could give this a 90 day trial?

I guess that's the long way of saying ---- IDK.

[KitCat]

Vaca was amazing!!!! The condo was HUGE! The resort was HUGE!

My first night I was on my own. Still unknown if my gf was going to make it at all. Exhausted after driving all day I ended up at the swanky piano bar at the resort. I had too many cocktails and was high after eating my weight in WI cheese. So I texted my XH.... UGH... We chatted for quite awhile. He had no idea I was going to WI and he was actually coming to my town the next morning to get his bike worked on. Which I find so strange. I even said "you hated this town yet you come here pretty darn often". He tried to use the excuse that it was $200 cheaper in my town than his town. Yet, factor in the 2hr round trip drive... sitting and waiting on the bike for 5hr... Had it been me I would have dropped off in my own town and saved myself the day.

It was 65 degrees the next morning so I hiked 12mi of the property. Its between seasons so didn't see another soul the entire time. Just the wind in the pines and then the pair of very vocal cranes I came up on. I did some day drinking on a grand scale. My gf made it late the next night.

It then snowed 3" overnight so I went out and enjoyed the snow and made a snow angel. So the weather was definitely a mix!

GF and I enjoyed catch up time. Had plenty of time to knit and relax. She confessed she has never had a massage or mani/pedi and she was just unsure if she ever could. Well we are at a high end resort complete with a high end spa! I eased her in with a facial. Told her to just put the robe over her clothes if she was unsure or not comfortable. OMG--- she loved it!!! I laughed and just told her she now has another expensive habit. She loved it so much that we did mani/pedis a couple of days later and she was over the moon. So definitely a great week.

Pilot stayed in light contact. When I got home I was invited out for cold drinks and hot sex. Well... at least its honest and upfront!

I have NO complaints about that night save one... and, that's on me.

[LH19]

KK you go girl!!! Glad you had fun!

[BL42]

KitCat,

Glad you had an amazing vacation.

I think you know what you're getting w/ExH and Pilot at this point, but your attitude about it seems better in your latest post, so if you're comfortable with and accepting of what they're offering then good for you.

[DonH]

Hmmmmmm so you were in my state. Now that you’re gone and safely home, where were you? The Dells? Door County? Two of my leading guesses. We had 70 one day so 65 would fit. Glad you enjoyed it. As you experienced if you don’t like the weather just wait a few hours and it will change from 65 to snow - sounds ‘bout right.

[KitCat]

Hmmmmmm so you were in my state. Now that you’re gone and safely home, where were you? The Dells? Door County? Two of my leading guesses. We had 70 one day so 65 would fit. Glad you enjoyed it. As you experienced if you don’t like the weather just wait a few hours and it will change from 65 to snow - sounds ‘bout right.

I was in Lake Geneva!!! I've always loved driving through that area and was so happy I could stay a week there.

[DonH]

Oh even closer! I do gigs there a few times a year. Very fun town especially in summer. If the resort you stayed at had a small air field/airport it was once the Playboy Club - though that ended 40 years ago already.

[KitCat]

Oh even closer! I do gigs there a few times a year. Very fun town especially in summer. If the resort you stayed at had a small air field/airport it was once the Playboy Club - though that ended 40 years ago already.

Oh, that's really cool! Haha... once the Playboy Club! It was a lovely resort but now I'm seeing it in a whole new light!

[KitCat]

Hit a large speed bump in the road...

I've been avoiding XH. Supposedly the timeshare paperwork is done but I need to follow up with the timeshare because I didn't sign anything. He also paid off my son's car about a month ago and still hasn't gotten the title to me. I really don't want to deal with him so I've been putting off finishing up the last of our business items. There is still one box of mixed items at my house - mostly just pictures. His pictures prior to our marriage mixed in with ours. The last time I sat down to go through it a year ago I had to stop. UGH - I'm teary eye just thinking about the task.

But, that's not what's got me down.

So two weeks ago Pilot was very chatty and staying in touch, asked me out, etc. Then when he was gone for work he was less chatty but it was a stressful weather week. He was home but talked about a lot of things he had going on so I just accepted he was busy and went about my week.

I texted him Saturday that I had friends playing a X bar but I had no energy (just got off from a busy day at work). Told him I'd like to see him again but I knew he was busy and he had my number. Went about my day.

He became pretty chatty. Teased me that I have a lot of time in bars while he is at home fixing broken kitchen cabinets. I responded I wasn't going anywhere as I was still in work out clothes crashed on the couch - asked about his broken cabinets and if he had hosted a rave? I was trying to keep it fun. He just responded no and then what he did to fix said cabinet. I replied that it sounded like he had it under control. To which he said - we shall see.

I left the convo at that. I know he was leaving to return to work on Monday. I went about my Saturday night watching Netflix.

Two hours later he randomly texts me - Saturday night and just bought X some kibble on X.com.

I just responded - I'm sure X appreciates it. But that's more of a Sunday morning chore than a Saturday night thing... just sayin'.

Again ---- just tyring to keep it light and funny. I mean who sits around at 15yr old dreaming of being adult and spending their Saturday nights buying dog food.... Living the dream right???

He literally responded. "Don't always have a choice with the schedule. But you don't seem to understand that".

W.... T.... F....

I wish I had just taken the high road and said "you don't think I understand?" But, I got rather hurt and therefore defensive.

ME: "uhm... I do understand. I was just teasing you. I know you've had a busy week. You prefer flying at night and that's a huge adjustment when you are gone for work and then get back home with your sleep schedule. My XH worked 3rds and more often than not 12hr shifts 7days a week with a 2hr round trip daily commute. I'm well versed in difficult work schedules and know I have nothing to complain about with a 5min trip to work. I'm sure its a lot of stress making sure things go smoothly when you are gone with babies that have big medical needs. If you felt I was not understanding then I do apologize. Please have a good rest of the weekend."

AND ---- nothing. I get it. From my past experience he truly seems to be a dismissive avoidant so I don't expect to hear from him.

I'm just super angry that he jumps to such a conclusion.

I will not get into another pissing match with a guy over who has the harder work schedule or the most stress. I went a decade never being allowed to be tired or to have a bad day or to ever talk about my day. He has been living this life for the last 9yr. I don't doubt it gets super stressful. But, what a pig for telling me I don't get it.

Sorry - just super angry and hurt by his dumb comment.

[LH19]

KK,

I see nothing wrong with your response to the kibble message though you could have been more flirty. Your mistake was a long drawn out justification of a response. I do understand. I was just teasing you. Then drop it.

So you were never allowed to be tired or talk about your day with your exh? He is sounding more and more like a catch lol.

Zero expectations with Pilot. He is not a one woman kind of guy. He's a ten percenter who is clogging up the entire sexual market place.

[KitCat]

LH ---

Yes. It was late at night and I was tired. I knew his text about the dog kibble was a bid for attention. I almost didn't respond but I didn't want to ignore him. I should have added some emojis so he could better tell my intent in my reply?

His response hurt my feelings so I ended up word vomitting... sigh.

Well my list of red flags with him is looooonnnngggg.

I don't think he will contact me again... a little bit of a bummer because I was really looking forward to another roll in the hay with him. I haven't been on any dating sites since Oct and I'm choosing not to return to them until June or July.

SIGH...

[LH19]

I don't think he will contact me again... a little bit of a bummer because I was really looking forward to another roll in the hay with him.

I wish more women had your attitude. Love the honesty lol.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Any man who would get upset about that isn't worth holding on to.

[DejaVu6]

Another example of why phone calls are much more preferable to text messages when it comes to communicating with people you don’t know really well and vice versa. Sounds like you may have touched a nerve you didn’t know existed and that would have been a much easier fix if you had been having a telephone conversation. His response to your one text makes me think his belief that you don’t understand his schedule may have been percolating for a while and he just used this to express what was on his mind. Maybe you have made other comments in the past? Or he has had this experience with other women?

Don’t beat yourself up for word vomiting. I think many people would have a tendency to do that when they are being accused of something they weren’t actually doing. I wouldn’t be so sure you won’t hear from him again KC. He may reach out once he has had some time to reflect.

[KitCat]

I don't think he will contact me again... a little bit of a bummer because I was really looking forward to another roll in the hay with him.

I wish more women had your attitude. Love the honesty lol.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Any man who would get upset about that isn't worth holding on to.

Well please don't think I hop into any guys bed... LOL!

Outside of my XH he's the only guy I've had sex with. I prefer to be monogamous. I'd just rather have sex with him again... the known, than starting all over with the unknown?

[KitCat]

Another example of why phone calls are much more preferable to text messages when it comes to communicating with people you don’t know really well and vice versa.

Its really weird... he has NEVER called me. We only text or see each other in person. That has recently bothered me but I hadn't said anything to him about it just yet. I feel that phone calls, even short ones would help progress this to a more positive situation.

His response to your one text makes me think his belief that you don’t understand his schedule may have been percolating for a while and he just used this to express what was on his mind. Maybe you have made other comments in the past? Or he has had this experience with other women?

We've talked about it before. I've always validated him in the past - being gone a week at a time, his sleep schedule, he has elderly parents he also looks after. When he has texted when he travels and talks about a day that went to sh*t, I always listen and validate. I've learned that he needs some serious down time when he first gets home so I never pressure to see him.

But, somehow you are right he still has the belief that I don't understand his schedule OR possibly this has been an issue in his past? I really don't know.

I know a little of marriage that ended 9yr ago but haven't really discussed any of his other relationships. Of course my D was just final in Oct.

Don’t beat yourself up for word vomiting. I think many people would have a tendency to do that when they are being accused of something they weren’t actually doing. I wouldn’t be so sure you won’t hear from him again KC. He may reach out once he has had some time to reflect.

I would love to hear from him again but I would be surprised. He is super talented at ghosting and it doesn't take much to trigger it. All I can do is give him space but d*mn if I'm not pissed about it!!!! But, I no longer chasing him. He has my number.

[KitCat]

Link to new thread...

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2932530&#Post2932530