I was just asked for a divorce 2 weeks ago. Our marriage has been less than stellar for 5 of the 7 years. A quick run down:
My father died 11/7/14
We married 1/26/15
We bought a house 2/15/15
He moved 3 hours and started a new job, "here" on 4/7/15
His stepfather died 4/11/15 (unexpected)
His mother died 4/22/15 (battle with cancer)
His father died 9/2015
I saw him spiraling down a dark hole of depression, I begged him to talk to me, but he shut me out, I begged him to talk to a professional..........blah, blah, blah. For a couple of years, it was "okay", but the fusses became more frequent; it was almost like he was completely shutting out everyone in his life and he has become and IS, SO angry. He has never hit me. He would break his hand on a wall first, but in my constant pleas of get help, WE are not doing well, stop shutting me out, it has continued to get worse. We haven't slept in the same bed for 2.5 years and haven't had sex in about the same amount of time. We seemed okay until I tried to ask about our lack of communication. They were ALWAYS met with HUGE resistance. In the past 6 months to 1 year, the arguments have become so verbally abusive. He calls me really bad names, tells me that he has told me what needs to change (yet I don't know), says that I left him to wallow in the most difficult time of his life. He set up cameras in our bedroom, like he was spying on me thinking I was cheating and I found them and confronted him and he is gaslighting me into thinking I am in sane. He says that he loves me but WE don't work. This is my 3rd marriage. My first two husbands cheated and I could NOT let it go. This is his first marriage. I am 12 years older than him. I am 52, him, 40. I DO have trust issues, but that was known before and during our courtship and marriage. Normally, with him, I didn't go through his things. He was not like the other two....until I was printing some paper off of the computer and found porn. He admitted it and said it was a one time thing; but here are those trust issues again.
I am at a wall. I DO love him and want my marriage to work. BUT, I seriously don't know which of the techniques I even need to try. He has resorted to literally living in the basement. We speak, very civilly, when I go to the store, I buy the things that he wants, likes, needs. I cook dinner and we have had a few together. As long as conversation stays superficial, we are fine. Anytime I bring up "us" or staying together, his answer is SOLID, that he is resolved on his decision and WE don't work. I 100% believe there is NOT anyone else. He has made zero effort to pack or leave, but the living environment is causing me to walk on eggshells and wonder what is next. Someone please give me some path to go down. After reading Divorce Busting, The 7 steps and listening to "A Woman's Guide to Changing Her Man".............is seriously have NO clue what to do because I don't feel like WE fall into any criteria. He is 100% against therapy. I started therapy a few months ago. His view on therapist are they are overpaid, evil people who tell him what a "f____" up he really is. I am at a loss guys. I welcome any and all help :-)
Welcome! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome Thread for you:
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmand Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 07:23 AM.
Me-67, D35,S34
Cathy, wow. That was a rough read. Not only because of what you have had to go through which sounds brutal. But also because, I was your husband. Almost everything that you describe with the exception of a couple (the porn and I never called her names, just critical of what she did or didn't do) were things I was guilty of. But I was angry, bitter, entitled. When BD arrived I had actually contemplated BDing her for quite a while.
A few things stand out to me. First, I feel like he is sure he doesn't want to stay with you because he KNOWS that he can have you back anytime he wants. As I said above, I was close to BDing my WAW when BD rolled around in my sitch, and instead it was her telling me she didn't want to be married anymore. Suddenly, she became the THING I had to have. I went from "if she isn't careful I will leave her!" to "OH MY GOODNESS! IF I LOSE HER I WILL DIE!!"
Also, you say you have trust issues. Apparently so does he. Setting up cameras to spy on you? WOW. And it is also contrary to what he says and how he acts. He has shut you out for years. He claims there is no hope for you guys to stay together. But he apparently cared enough to spy on you!
Finally this: " speak, very civilly, when I go to the store, I buy the things that he wants, likes, needs. I cook dinner and we have had a few together. As long as conversation stays superficial, we are fine." This tells me that the first thing that you have to learn is that you CANNOT nice him back to the marriage. So stop this behavior. I mean be civil, but stop going out of your way for him. This man is firing you as his wife, and your reaction (many of us have had this same reaction) is to be more of a wife to him. I did the same thing, "she doesn't want me as a husband, so I will become the best husband she has ever seen!" The problem is that it doesn't work. He will cake eat and let you continue to be a stepford wife, but it won't command his respect.
Notice what I point out above: In my case I thought I didn't want my wife....until I couldn't have her! And he obviously still cares otherwise he wouldn't have spied on you. So, what if you gave him what he wanted? What if you showed him you were willing to move forward with your life without him? In my own sitch some of the things that made her question her decision were: my being willing to sell the house, my telling her I would not be playing house with her after D, my talking to a divorce lawyer, my pushing to talk to our daughter about the split, etc.
I think you have a chance, if you very confidently, very happily, very boldly start moving forward with your life. It may start getting him to realize what he is losing. Go out and GAL like a mad woman. Be busy busy busy. If he asks who you are going out with and where you are going, you tell him that he has fired you as his wife and he doesn't get to ask those kinds of questions. You continue to work on yourself, stay in IC/therapy, learn how to 180 on bad behaviors, and become the best version of yourself that you can be. Become a woman only a fool would leave! And then you also learn to emotionally detach from him. You literally do not let his words and deeds have an effect on you emotionally. When he starts to get angry and lash out and be verbally abusive, you calmly state that you will not allow yourself to be spoken to that way, and then you leave! Go out and do a GAL activity, but you do not stand and allow yourself to be disrespected.
1 or both of two things will eventually happen if you can do the above: one you will become the best version of yourself, happy and healthy, and move forward with your life....NO MATTER WHAT he ultimately decides. If he decides to go through with the divorce, well, you are set up for success in your future life. If he decides to stay, then you can decide what MR 2.0 (your current marriage is dead and should NEVER be allowed to continue to exist) looks like and tell him what you expect from him in order to remain married: IC for him, MC for you both, full transparency from him in every facet of life (email, social media, smart phone, and all electronic devices).
Cathy, we all go through the "I need to do whatever the WAS wants in order to save my marriage." You need to change your perspective to "I need to do whatever I can to move my own life forward happy and healthy". The difference is the latter sets you up for success no matter what your WAH decides. And the latter also sometimes causes the WAS to realize what they are missing and decide they want to stick around.
Cathy, one last thing. Please do not take this a bash, it is just an observation, and something you can explore with your therapist, but it sounds like you've spent a lot of your life as a doormat. Two ex-Hs that cheated on you. A WAH that feels free to speak to you in ways that no man should speak to their wife in. Find your inner-strength, see your own self-worth, and start standing up for yourself!
Please keep posting, and tell us more, and feel free to ask questions.
Hello, CathyC. Wow--it sounds like your entire marriage has been filled with difficult times. I'm sorry you've been put into this position for your third marriage in a row. You'll find some supportive people here.
Starting point? The verbal abuse. It's damaging for your psyche and doesn't breed respect in your partner. I would work set boundaries around that. We have a whole thread on boundaries (which control you to protect you) vs. ultimatums (which is an attempt to control other people). Whatever you've done imperfectly, you don't deserve that treatment.
Anytime I bring up "us" or staying together, his answer is SOLID, that he is resolved on his decision and WE don't work.
I would drop relationship talks. The DB approach typically frowns upon them as unhelpful and your personal experience thus far also indicates they're not helping you. This is more "do no harm" than "help".
Q. What binds you to him? Did you have 5-10 great years to offset 5 bad years? Your story makes it sound as if it's mostly been bad times and he never tried to fix things.
Q. Regarding trust issues, where have you misbehaved? Telling him that you have trust issues is good communication, but doesn't absolve you of working on them.
Q. Porn - You say this triggered your trust issues. Why--had he made any promises or vows? Most people can't go 2.5yrs without sex without some form of relief??
Thanks for the quick resources
CathyC,
Sorry you're here. That sounds very difficult. I'll try to weigh in more later when I have additional time, but two questions:
1) You're married 7 years, but how long were you together as a couple before marrying?
2) Are there any kids involved? Either together or from a prior relationship?
We did have 5 years of a wonderful relationship before we were married. He lived three hours away, yet traveled every weekend to my house for visits.
I have not had an affair, nor have I sought out an affair. He knew about my trust issues because I disclosed them to him about my former exes that cheated and one of them was heavily into porn. The porn was after about 6 months of no type of intimacy's, what-so-ever. I seriously quit trying to find it or check a computer history because he is so computer savvy, he wouldn't make that mistake again.
There are no children involved (from either of us).
Steve, I seriously thought that after being called an effing C____ or b____ one more time that I would be the one to ask for the divorce. I have already sought out a lawyer and when he approached me about wanting to file a non contested divorce, I was surprised. Not only does he want half of the equity, but also wants to recover the $30,000 that he put into house restorations (from his inheritance). He wants a non contested divorce so that we do not have to hire lawyers and can "do this ourselves".
I have done enough investigation to know that I can hire a lawyer and I can file an "at fault" divorce and we will likely not even get half of the equity.
One, I don't want to be divorced and as I sit here and type these things, I ask why.
Two, I do not want an ugly, costly divorce and divorces are SO expensive when you get into fault divorces.
I appreciate all of your comments and advise and Steve, you are right....I am trying to be the "best wife that I can be", which is NOT making him miss me at all. It is just really hard with him still in the same house. I desperately want to keep peace and not have any arguing, so I try to make everything, "okay".
Welcome Cathy. I echo what others have said here. Stop making him the focus and make yourself the focus. Get out of the house. Do not make dinner for him. In fact, when dinner time rolls around, make a point of being elsewhere every few days. Go for a walk, make plans with friends, go to a movie, the gym, etc…. Just don’t do what is expected. And do not tell him what you are doing or report to him in any way. It’s none of his business. Do a really good self assessment and figure out what things you need to change to make you the best you that you can be and get going on it.
I know it is hard. Believe me…when BD happened to me, I just wanted to crawl into the nearest corner, curl up in a little ball and die. I was beyond devastated for many months. People on here just kept telling me to get up and get moving and that eventually my feelings would change. I did not believe them. I did not think that I could ever feel okay again. Being tossed aside in favour of someone else (in my sitch) is the WORST feeling ever. But, as D is fond of saying, feelings are fleeting so we should try very hard to not make critical decisions based on them.
Four years later and I am divorced, XH is married to OW and I have 50/50 custody of my kids. When all of this began, those three things were my absolute worst fears. At the time, I imagined all three of them happening and I literally thought I would die if they did. But guess what? I didn’t die and, in fact, I am doing better than ever. I am happy. I am growing. I am learning. I am dating…lol. My 54th birthday is looming and I’m okay with it.
I’m not sure where the turning point for me was in my situation. I remember that I posted non-stop at all hours of the night just to deal with the emotional pain of it all. I tried to take people’s advice (often failing miserably) and when I felt the least like getting up and out of the house is when I pushed myself the most. New Years came around. I didn’t want to do anything so I hosted a party of about 25 people. I went to staff parties I didn’t want to go to. I made some new female friends. I took my kids on vacation. I improved my diet and started exercising more. And then one day my friend, who had been through a similar situation, looked at me and said, “think of what you have lost and when nothing comes to mind, move on”. I laughed at the time but when I really reflected on what she had said, I realized she had been right. Even though my H had only left four months before then, the truth was that he had left me long, long, long before that and I had been alone for much longer than I cared to recognize. Not sleeping in the same bed for two and a half years? I think you can probably relate. I was married for 12 years and desperately lonely for four of those. I am not lonely anymore.
Having been where you are, I know that what people are saying probably doesn’t feel like it is helping. You want to know what to do to get him back… change his mind. What you need to really understand is that the more you focus on answering those questions, the less likely it is that it will happen. Work on you first. Save yourself. You cannot control what he does. You can only control what you do. I promise you. You will not always feel like this. Use the time you have now for self improvement…not to get him back but to get you back.
BTW…do not go to therapy. Couples therapy only works if both people are going with the same goal. If you are going to save the marriage and he has already decided it is over, he will use whatever is said in session to justify his choice. I don’t care how skilled the therapist is… it will not help.
Hang in there. It gets better with time. (((HUGS)))
One other thing… verbal abuse… ANY abuse is not okay and has no place in a marriage. You deserve better.
Thanks for the replies. I had replied, but do not see it. To answer some questions, we had been together for 5 years before we got married. He traveled 3 hours every weekend before that. We do not have any children (neither of us), and as far as the trust issues, he knew about those from my other two marriages when we were dating. He also knew that one of my exes was obsessed with porn, so when I found that here, it did plant a seed or outlook of "here we go again". He is very computer savvy, so I knew that even if he did do it again, he would wipe it away so there was no trace in a browser history.
I DO feel broken right now. As far as therapy, I continue to go. I made the appointment for us and he didn't show up. I continued to go without him. She is now "my" therapist and would refuse to see "us". He believes that therapist are the root of all evil and they are over paid to tell him how f____ up he truly is (those are his words; not mine).
I am desperately seeking advise and comfort to know that I am not alone because some days, I REALLY feel that way. I have a good network, but many are mutual friends and I don't want to necessarily reach out or talk about it with them because I don't want them to feel like they are choosing sides. The friends I have talked to have all said get out now........but I feel like it is always easy for people to say that with no regard to what YOU want.
I feel like I need to do the whole 180, but you guys are right..........I fear then that I WILL lose him for good because he will think, oh well, she doesn't care. I am exhausted. I have struggled with this failing marriage for several years seriously thought that I would be the one to ask for the divorce. I have several letters, where I do just that. But I wrote them and never followed through.
Just keep POSTING (remember right now you are on moderation so patience) and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
CathyC,
We do not have any children (neither of us)
This is good in some ways - it will make it easier to detach.
I DO feel broken right now. As far as therapy, I continue to go. I made the appointment for us and he didn't show up. I continued to go without him. She is now "my" therapist and would refuse to see "us".
That's good! Continue to go to individual counseling (IC) to help you through this difficult time and work on areas of improvement for yourself. When people say counseling doesn't work they're talking about marriage counseling (MC) with both parties when one isn't committed to working on the relationship.
I am desperately seeking advise and comfort to know that I am not alone because some days, I REALLY feel that way.
Post on here a lot, even if it's just to journal. It'll help to read others' situations and progressions through their sitches, and even just getting a post from someone on your thread will give you a boost.
I have a good network, but many are mutual friends and I don't want to necessarily reach out or talk about it with them because I don't want them to feel like they are choosing sides.
Glad you have a good network. Navigating the "sides" can be difficult.
The friends I have talked to have all said get out now........but I feel like it is always easy for people to say that with no regard to what YOU want.
Others more removed from the situation than you may be able to see things you don't. That said, don't let them make decisions for you. Ultimately it's your life.
I feel like I need to do the whole 180, but you guys are right..........I fear then that I WILL lose him for good because he will think, oh well, she doesn't care.
Or...might he start to wonder if he'll lose you?
I am exhausted. I have struggled with this failing marriage for several years seriously thought that I would be the one to ask for the divorce.
If you've thought and wanted a divorce yourself, what is scaring you about it now and making you hold on? Could it be simply because it's not you making the decision?
Cathy, wow. Those are some awful names that a husband should never call his wife. And this is why I said that you need to step back and decide what reconciliation looks like. So many LBSs are just willing to take the WAS back. Because we don't want D, or are afraid to be alone, or -fill in the blank-. Being deliberate about how you want MR2.0 to look is really the only real path to R, and if your WAH balks at that then you need to be willing to walkaway yourself. Just letting him waltz back into the MR will only prolong your agony. His behavior won't change, and you will just be delaying the inevitable.
As far as his plan for an easy-peezy D, this is typical WAS fog. My W was the same way. She wanted to get a job, get an apartment and get a D. She had this plan that I would keep the house, my daughter would remain in the house with me, but "sleep over" at her apartment. Several nights a week we would play house with her coming over to cook dinner, but sometimes she'd host at her apartment. And, of course, she'd have keys to the house to "help care for" our dogs and cat. I burst her bubble by saying we'd sell the house, decisions about the pets would need to be made. When she questioned where I would live I said I would move in with a good friend of mine for a while. She didn't like this at all, and it really made her question her "plan".
She also wanted a quicky, online D. Something that was not even possible in our state when you have children. I know you guys don't have kids, but his asks are already a red-flag. You should not agree to the uncontested divorce since there are already contentions. Like him getting his $30k back? What? That doesn't even make sense. So hold the line that you will be represented by a lawyer. He is free to do what he wants on his side. Lots of LBSs claim "I can't afford a lawyer" but my argument is always "you cannot afford to NOT have a lawyer". It is like having car trouble and saying you don't need a mechanic. Call in the professionals and do not feel bad about it!
Please read DejaVu's posts. She is right on the money. The goal for you is to be in a better place in 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, etc. You do that by focusing on moving forward with your own life....and leave your WAH alone to decide what he wants for his life. He has to decide that he WANTS to stay for there to be a chance to save the marriage. To quote a line from Shawshank Redemption, you face a decision: Get busy living or get busy dying. To meet the goal or being better off in the future you need to embrace the former and get busy!
Cathy, you can do this, and you will be okay no matter what. Just take it one day at a time and really embrace GAL, self-improving and working on emotional detachment.
I do have that lawyer retained. So, I feel like I’m ready there, either way. I have already talked to a refinance banker and I’m ready to move forward. When he said I could keep the house, I immediately contacted a banker to see my options. All that needs to be done is the paperwork to get him off of the mortgage. After I told him I talked to a banker, that is when he came back with his ridiculous “counter offer”.
I will stand firm that I will NOT live mortgage poor because of his greed. My past exes did that to me and one allowed our house to go into for closure which took me years to mend. I am an only child who does everything I can to help out my Mom, so I will not sacrifice to not be able to do that. Even if it means getting ugly in court. That in itself breaks my heart because that is not who I am but I am slowly realizing I must take care of me.
Him living here is so hard. I feel like if he wanted a divorce that badly, he’d be gone. On the flip side, is he staying here because it is cheaper and I am allowing it? These are the things that keep up at night. I push for him to get out, I will lose him for good. At least now, he’s here. I do have a fear of being alone….because I am an only child with no children. As crappy as my marriage is/was, my H always helped my Mom when needed. Some of those things, I simply can’t do. Then sometimes, I feel like I am just too old and exhausted to start over and I don’t want too. I DO know that I am miserable in this current married situation. I know that I should never allow someone to speak to me the way he does. I have tried to justify that as if he were a “well person” he would not be doing this. I DO believe that he is not mentally well and this is not “him”. I work in healthcare. I am a fixer. That’s what I do. AND, I can’t fix him and that breaks my heart!!! I am babbling and making excuses. I know I have to make a decision and do something. I do feel like I am
Working on me. I will continue to. And I will start with 180. This will be a challenge everyday because I am a giver and inherently a nice person. Yes, Steve….that does look like a doormat. I guess I have always been that way. I think it was learned behavior as I watched my mother be the exact same person and I literally hated my Dad for the way he treated her. From a southern, old fashioned home, women were taught, just keep the peace, WE must be the one who is making him angry. I feel like this is just a learned trait. I also KNOW this is not true and have had several arguments with my mom about it. I am trying to change my mindset for many things. With that being said, I WILL push forward and try this 180. It takes me 100% out of my comfort zone but I have nothing else to lose.
I do have that lawyer retained. So, I feel like I’m ready there, either way.
Good. That knowledge and preparedness must be empowering.
I will stand firm that I will NOT live mortgage poor because of his greed.
Good. Stand firm in your rights and get the money/equity you deserve.
I do have a fear of being alone….because I am an only child with no children.
Sounds like an area to explore with your IC.
Then sometimes, I feel like I am just too old and exhausted to start over and I don’t want too.
Don't think of everything at once. Focus on small goals so you're not overwhelmed.
I DO know that I am miserable in this current married situation. I know that I should never allow someone to speak to me the way he does.
You should take the time to really ponder your words here.
I can’t fix him and that breaks my heart!!!
No, you can not fix him. We are not responsible for fixing anyone but ourselves.
I do feel like I am Working on me. I will continue to.
What does that look like? Would you share what you're doing to work on you?
And I will start with 180. This will be a challenge everyday because I am a giver and inherently a nice person. Yes, Steve….that does look like a doormat.
Good. Don't be a doormat. We haven't explored your history in detail but someone above mentioned - and I think they're on to something - that it sounds like you may have been a doormat in your previous two marriages . That's a pattern to address with your IC. Time to strengthen yourself!
I guess I have always been that way. I think it was learned behavior as I watched my mother be the exact same person and I literally hated my Dad for the way he treated her.
It's very difficult to break from what we were modeled. It takes awareness and resolve. Discuss it with IC and work on it.
(((Cathy))). Gosh I so empathize with how you are feeling. I was desperately afraid of being alone and it was difficult in the beginning when my kids would go to their dad’s. In that process, however, I realized two very important things:
1) I had been alone in my marriage for a very long time. I just didn’t realize it because being “married” gave me the illusion of having a partner that I did not have in reality. A partner doesn’t fake medical treatments for four years in order to abandon his wife and family (read my thread…it is an unbelievable story).
2) Being alone does not have to mean that you are lonely. I was desperately lonely when I was married. And I have learned that I much prefer my own company to the company of someone around whom I have to walk on eggshells. That’s no way to live. But I had lived with it for so long, I didn’t know any better. I had forgotten what peaceful happiness feels like. I remember now. It feels great Cathy. I do have to say one thing though… as bad as my XH was, he NEVER, EVER called me names. That’s abuse, plain and simple, and something you should not accept. Please, please, please… work on your fear of losing him. Because that is what it is…fear. You need to ask yourself what it is exactly that you are afraid of and work at overcoming it. No one should ever be afraid of losing someone who treats them poorly. Just picture what it would feel like to get up every morning and walk into your kitchen feeling calm and peaceful because there is no one lurking around waiting to make you feel bad about yourself. Trust me Cathy. Alone is soooooo much better than that.
Working on me. I will continue to. And I will start with 180. This will be a challenge everyday because
I am a giver and inherently a nice person.
Just for the record most of the people posting here fit these traits.
We are givers and for the guys NICE GUYS, or nice people.
Sometimes because of this we can be taken advantage of and it is important that we learn to stand up for ourselves and not be abused.
Also as a side note you should be off of moderation now.
Let me know if you are not. (or I will figure it out)
My fear for losing him is selfishness. I AM an only child with an older mother. Statistically speaking, I should out live her and when she dies, I have no one. I won't even have a beneficiary or an emergency contact. That just breaks my heart......that the person that I thought was MY person is just throwing this away with no effort what-so-ever. (BL42), things that I am working on in my personal therapy are how to achieve happiness alone. How do I see myself, "happy". What aspects to do I need to focus on to find myself again.
Prior to covid, I played roller derby. This stopped us dead in its tracks and we have not been able to return to play since. Our goal is to have our first practice on 2/20/22. I am excited for that and have a HUGE network or people that are supportive (for me). They will always "side" with me and right now, that is not what I feel like I need. I need to figure this out, my way. When it is said and done, no matter the outcome, I will need to feel in my heart that I did everything that I could do to save my marriage, and I guess, help him. This is where I stumble ALL of the time. My desire to help him be better. NOT better for me, but he needs therapy or medication for his mental illness. Again, I believe that if he were not sick, we would not be in this situation.
I noticed today that he has started putting his direct deposit into HIS personal account and transferring money to our joint account. This is the first time that I noticed this and he said that he did it several weeks ago. That was a lie, bank deposits don't lie; I DID call him and ask if this is something that we were going to discuss. He said there was nothing to discuss. He was now putting money into our account instead of transferring it out (which is true - we both put equal amounts into the joint account for bills). He said, we are seperated, right? I said, um, no......you still live in the basement. We are not separated. I explained to him that I had all of my end of the bargain done since he had asked for the divorce and said that after working 13-14 hour days he had been too exhausted to deal with it. We could talk about it this weekend. By talking about it, he means what his demands are as far as money that HE wants to receive. I desperately do not want this to become an arguement. If I do not "comply" he will threaten me with, "we will hash this out in court then, " call me names and make my weekend an absolute hell.
AND, "Cadet", what does "off of moderation mean?"
Hi CathyC, "off of moderation" should mean we see your posts instantly instead of waiting for a moderator to check and approve them. Reply to the rest soon! Hugs and take care.
Hi CathyC, "off of moderation" should mean we see your posts instantly instead of waiting for a moderator to check and approve them.
Exactly
After reading some of your responses, I was almost excited to come home and begin trying my 180; My husband had other plans. Tonight, he wanted to talk about our divorce and equitable distribution. I listened, I had some counter offers in which he was completely offended and literally told me that his offer WAS THE offer and otherwise I could see him in court. I did manage to get him talked off of that ledge with money talks thrown around; since he IS the very one that wants to stay out of court.
After coming to zero conclusion, tonight, I DID ask him if I would ever know WHY he had decided this was over. He said that it was because I never took responsibility for my own actions. I always deflected things toward him. I nagged him when he did things, etc........you get the picture. The ONLY thing that I was able to agree with him on was that I was chaser. When we got into heated arguments and he stepped away, if I was not finished or wanted to continue our convo, I followed him. I recognize that. BUT, the few times that I did not chase were those times when even the next day or two days or three days would pass and he would continue to tell me that "now is not a good time to talk", until I would finally drop the desire to finish the conversation.
I 100% get that every story has two sides, but I am still in shock. Stunned at the things that he said I did. These are the very things that I felt as though he did to me. We're at an impasse. I see so many relatable stories in MWD's books, to where the couples are literally blaming each other for the same thing.
I feel like I am back to square one of not having a clue as to what to do. He told me tonight that he had accepted that this is who I was and that was okay, but he wasn't going to live with it. I have literally sit her and racked my brain for 2 hours before typing this and tried to just rest and see examples or literally try to see where this was coming from. I totally understand that we ALL get in a rut, but I also know I have begged and pleaded for US to get help. When asked about that, he said it wouldn't work. He knew the situation and knew what to do and a therapist would have done nothing except make things worse for him. He said that therapy would have probably sent him over the edge and put him into an even darker place.
I am speechless, exhausted and cried out tonight. As we still continue to live under the same roof. Him - resorted to the basement and me just here.
With the exception of working on me, what do I do. Just live my life as if he doesn't exist? I seriously want to crawl up into a ball and just be. This is supposed to be my person. My best friend. The person I grew old with. The fact that I am starring down the barrel of a third divorce is seriously more than I think I am capable of handling.
CathyC,
After reading some of your responses, I was almost excited to come home and begin trying my 180; My husband had other plans.
180s aren't something you can turn on & off on a dime. They require a sustained period of change. Don't expect you're just going to come home one night and try something different and that's going to change things...think long term.
Tonight, he wanted to talk about our divorce and equitable distribution. I listened, I had some counter offers in which he was completely offended and literally told me that his offer WAS THE offer and otherwise I could see him in court.
Listening is fine. But you don't need to counter. You don't want to get into a negotiation and/or argument. If you don't agree w/him offer then refer him to your attorney.
After coming to zero conclusion, tonight, I DID ask him if I would ever know WHY he had decided this was over.
This is a relationship talk/pressure which the book advises against. Try not to bring this up in the future. It won't help. You won't "convince" him and any reasons he tells you might just be excuses exaggerated or lies to justify his actions.
The ONLY thing that I was able to agree with him on was that I was chaser. When we got into heated arguments and he stepped away, if I was not finished or wanted to continue our convo, I followed him. I recognize that.
Good you're self-reflecting. If you agree this is an issue make it a 180 and don't chase.
I 100% get that every story has two sides, but I am still in shock. Stunned at the things that he said I did. These are the very things that I felt as though he did to me. We're at an impasse.
This is common. The WS/WAS will make the you and the relationship out to be monsters. Though remember you yourself described it as pretty bad.
I feel like I am back to square one of not having a clue as to what to do.
Stand up for yourself. Know you'll be alright no matter what happens. Go out, exercise, make friends, start a new hobby. Act happy (fake it until you make it). Focus on yourself and not him. Improve yourself and making your life happy without him. Accept you can't control his decision.
I am speechless, exhausted and cried out tonight.
It's very difficult. We've all been there. But you WILL get through it.
With the exception of working on me, what do I do. Just live my life as if he doesn't exist?
Live your life as you want to in a way that will make you happy and healthy and fulfilling. Don't focus on him or pursue him. That may get him thinking he'll lose you. If it doesn't, you'll be better for your efforts regardless.
I seriously want to crawl up into a ball and just be. This is supposed to be my person. My best friend. The person I grew old with. The fact that I am starring down the barrel of a third divorce is seriously more than I think I am capable of handling.
I (we) completely understand what you're going through. It's incredibly difficult. But you WILL be ok. You WILL get through this.
(BL42), things that I am working on in my personal therapy are how to achieve happiness alone. How do I see myself, "happy". What aspects to do I need to focus on to find myself again.
That's great. Sounds like a perfect area for you to explore. You don't need anyone to be happy; you can become a happy person on your own and that will attract others to you.
Prior to covid, I played roller derby. This stopped us dead in its tracks and we have not been able to return to play since. Our goal is to have our first practice on 2/20/22. I am excited for that and have a HUGE network or people that are supportive (for me).
COVID has made socializing difficult. I hope your roller derby league can start back up. This is a perfect example of GAL. A physical and social activity in one. Personally I'd recommend exercise. Even if it's just walking a half hour a day. Get into a regular routine...nothing like ramping up the endorphins and getting in better shape improving your mental attitude and attractiveness.
They will always "side" with me and right now, that is not what I feel like I need.
I don't know...based on the words your H is using , some support from friends may be just what you need.
I need to figure this out, my way.
You can't "figure it out". It's not a logical proof in math. It's an emotional decision. And you do not have control of what your husband does. You have to make your life better and he either will or won't come back to the marriage.
I noticed today that he has started putting his direct deposit into HIS personal account and transferring money to our joint account.
Consult an attorney on this ASAP. Understand your financial rights. You don't need to discuss it would H. You should not pick a fight. But also don't comply with his desires just to not make him mad. Protect yourself financially. "Playing nice" and giving up finances you're entitled to won't save the marriage. Stand up for yourself.
You go out and get a life. The LBSs that struggle the most do GAL the worst. The opposite of GAL is sitting at home and stewing in your own juices. That's a terrible way to move forward with your life.
Look, is to be sad. The emotional rollercoaster is real, and suppressing your feelings isn't advisable. Feel your emotions, process them. But don't let them rule over you. Cry. Be angry. Be frustrated. Then go out and GAL. The busier you stay the better you will feel, and the quicker you'll feel better
When he starts R talks, listen and validate. Read the validation thread. But be the one to end the conversation. "We are going to have to talk about the later, I have some where I have to be." Never tell him where you are going or what you're doing. Feel free to be a little mysterious. But find things to do and people to do them with.
And as far as marriage counseling, your WAH is right, it wouldn't have worked because his heart wasn't in it. I wouldn't dwell on that anymore.
Cathy, you can handle this. You're stronger than you think you are. Start prioritizing yourself. It takes two to make a marriage, only one to make a divorce. So whether you want the divorce or not, you don't get to control that. So focus on what you can control. Yourself.
Try reading the pursuit and distance thread in the homework from my first post.
You will see yourself hopefully in there.
CathyC, as BL42 said, stop "negotiating". If he wants a divorce, he should file for one, at which time your attorney can assess if his written offer is better or worse than a judge would award. You neither want to be an obstacle (by arguing) nor encourage it (by nicing). It sounds like your conversation did harm. The above is a do-no-harm approach.
I'm sorry you're staring down the barrel of a third divorce. I'm a romantic, divorced once, and even my second failed LTR was hard to face. I was able to pull her back using DB techniques--Cadet mentions Distance-Pursuer--before concluding we didn't work. Steve truly saved his marriage! GAL to rebuild yourself isn't easy but you are worth it and maybe he is to you. (Although, prioritize setting FIRM verbal abuse boundaries which will also help build you up.)
(Although, prioritize setting FIRM verbal abuse boundaries which will also help build you up.)
I want to reiterate what Traveler says here. I've alluded to this in previous responses, but this is really important. The worst thing you could do, even worse than divorce, would be to go right back to the same dynamic you guys were in before BD. Really think about what R and MR 2.0 looks like to you, then make that the minimum standard for saving your marriage. Verbal abuse is a non-starter, and as a former borderline verbal abuser (though no where to the level you faced), it takes a lot of work on his part. Including, whether he likes it or not, individual counseling.
I know right now its hard to see that D isn't the worst thing you are facing, but really it isn't. Deep down you do not want to go back to the way things were. You start moving away from that dynamic forever by instituting what I suggested before: if he starts getting verbally abusive you shut it down. "I refuse to sit here and be verbally abused." Then get up and leave.
Remember, moving forward to MR 2.0 is the goal. But moving forward is a requirement regardless of what he ultimately decides.
"I refuse to sit here and be verbally abused." Then get up and leave.
^This. Repeat this phrase & action in your head over and over so you don't freeze up or back down in the moment. No big lectures or debates or fights - concise statement then simply walk away.
I am not going to lie. Today is bad. Maybe because it is Saturday and although he is "in the basement", we are still in the same house and pass frequently. He has come into the room that I am in and spoken a few times. I am not angry or short, but I keep my answers to a minimum and carry on with the work that I am doing. I am working from home today, but it is a slow day that allows my mind to wonder.
I am a talker. So, when my answers are short and to the point, I know that he feels like I am being a bitch. I have read so many threads on there that they are running together. I am trying to absorb everything. I have a list of abbreviations printed out and a list on how to detach printed out. I read this over and over again and it seems like something that is so far out of reach. I pray that I find the strength to move forward without having a complete nervous breakdown. I work in healthcare and had to go to the ER on 1/1 because I couldn't breath. I literally woke me from my sleep. I called my husband when I got some pretty scary blood work back and he told me "not to freak out, wait for the CT (this was before he asked for the divorce). He never showed up, I wound up having pneumonia and a plural effusion. Fast forward to 1/20, I had taken a couple of weeks off, went back to work on the 20th and knew that I still didn't feel right. Sharp stabbing pains.....long story short, I have a pulmonary embolism. I likely had it on the 1st but it was hidden by the pneumonia. When I asked him why he never went to the ER, explaining how scared I was, he told me that he felt that I was trying to manipulate him for attention. I think that is ONE of the most inhumane things someone has ever said to me. As a medical professional, I KNEW what the blood work implicated and I was literally scared for my life and at that current moment...didn't want to die alone. Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"
I think that is ONE of the most inhumane things someone has ever said to me.
It's common. A week after my long-term XGF and I broke-up, I totaled my car and called her for help. She didn't believe me--she thought it was a ruse to manipulate her. In fairness, I had tried to persuade her in the days before and her wariness to manipulation was off-the-charts. It's ironic that the same XGF lamented she was diagnosed with a neurodegenerative disease a week after her XH broke up with her, and it similarly pained her he would not listen. Poignant moments.
Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"
You've been together a long time. It makes sense that part of you wants to stay together, and part of you wants to escape. Not to beat a dead horse, but my big hopes for you are: a) You will set boundaries for firm action when he or your own negative self-talk calls you names, b) You won't allow your emotions to lead to passive-aggressive behavior like threatening divorce or asking him to divorce--you'll take control by either filing or not filing, c) You will begin to find CathyC either solo or with your friends, realizing your H is currently neither your partner nor your friend. That may change in time.
You are not being a "witch" if you respond with efficient, non-rude answers. "Have you done the laundry yet?" "No, I haven't." Don't accept such names. Unless you're a practitioner of Wicca, of course!
I didn’t know, nor have I ever met anyone as stubborn or head strong as my want to be WAH. Before reading three of Michele’s books and joining this group, I did reach out to his sister. I felt like I needed someone that KNEW him to talk to me. Not to talk to him or to persuade him back but to find out if this has happened before, has he always been angry and just suppressed it. Who am I even living with.
I did find out that he has a history of anger, he has really never had a relationship that was truly meaningful until ours. Long, yes but not true commitment. She believes that he does not have then mental capacity to love completely….and attributes that to his father/mother. I DO realize this is something I cannot fix.
Again, I’m a fixer and my heart is shattered that I can’t fix this. It reminds me of a small child who is crying for help and no one is listening. 😢
CathyC,
I am not going to lie. Today is bad. Maybe because it is Saturday and although he is "in the basement", we are still in the same house and pass frequently.
Could you get out of the house? Go for a walk, grab lunch out, see a movie at the theatre...etc.?
He has come into the room that I am in and spoken a few times. I am not angry or short, but I keep my answers to a minimum and carry on with the work that I am doing.
Good. Courteous, but short and to the point.
So, when my answers are short and to the point, I know that he feels like I am being a bitch.
Maybe of us here have a tendency to be overly "nice". Nothing wrong with not being overly warm to the person who is treating you the way you're H is treating you.
You are not being a "witch" if you respond with efficient, non-rude answers. "Have you done the laundry yet?" "No, I haven't." Don't accept such names.
^Agreed.
I have read so many threads on there that they are running together. I am trying to absorb everything.
Good! Hopefully take comfort you're not alone, and also get advice on how to act & respond.
[quote=CatchC] I think that is ONE of the most inhumane things someone has ever said to me.
It's common. A week after my long-term XGF and I broke-up, I totaled my car and called her for help. She didn't believe me--she thought it was a ruse to manipulate her.
Not a medical emergency, but at one point after BD during IHS I had an important meeting at work and my car wouldn't start. Instead of trying to help, as a spouse or any friend or family would, my ExW just started laughing at me enjoying my situation. That always stuck out at me. I had insights into her conversations with AP, family & friends...she would have my parents over for a family dinner to "keep the peace" and then mock me and say terrible things about me to them behind my back.
The point is, don't underestimate the exact to which your H may have anger and hate towards you right now. I know it might be hard to believe, because he looks like the person you married, but there's likely a whole lot more deep down in him that is resenting you. It doesn't mean it's justified - I didn't do anything to my ExW even remotely close to meriting the treatment I got - he could very well be projecting his hurts and anger and resentment on to you. Just don't be surprised; you might be shocked how bad his emotions are towards you right now.
Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"
Yes. But then everyone is at a different point on the path. Regardless of the outcome, you'll look back down the road (in a year, in 2 years, in 5 years) and view this very differently than you do at the present. That's why is great to read a lot of other stories - it shows you people's progress over time and helps give a better perspective of the long run when you're (understandably) caught up in the present.
You've been together a long time. It makes sense that part of you wants to stay together, and part of you wants to escape. Not to beat a dead horse, but my big hopes for you are: a) You will set boundaries for firm action when he or your own negative self-talk calls you names, b) You won't allow your emotions to lead to passive-aggressive behavior like threatening divorce or asking him to divorce--you'll take control by either filing or not filing, c) You will begin to find CathyC either solo or with your friends, realizing your H is currently neither your partner nor your friend. That may change in time.
^Great advice!
I felt like I needed someone that KNEW him to talk to me. Not to talk to him or to persuade him back but to find out if this has happened before, has he always been angry and just suppressed it. Who am I even living with.
I did find out that he has a history of anger, he has really never had a relationship that was truly meaningful until ours. Long, yes but not true commitment. She believes that he does not have then mental capacity to love completely….and attributes that to his father/mother.
This is common. I've heard a good bit from people close to my ExW (ExFIL, ExSMIL, people around town) that she had deep seated issues stemming from younger years. I knew she had been in counseling and on anti-depressants since teenage years, and her parents each married three times and she discovered her mom's affair and lived through her mom breaking up her family. I saw the beautiful fun person I was dating/married to, not the low self esteem broken hurt person deep down. Often things bubble up, even when the person wants to be different.
I'm not saying there's nothing you need to work on - there is absolutely is based on what you've said about your relationship history - but point being a lot of this might be your husband's history bubbling up and personal issues.
I DO realize this is something I cannot fix.
Good! You can not fix your H. You can fix you though. Work on you! You'll like the results.
Cathy,
What is one small thing that brings you joy? Something you can do just for you? A walk to clear your head, a bubble bath, a show or movie or novel that can help you to escape mentally for an hour or two? Cooking yourself a favorite meal, calling a friend, booking a massage or a pedicure? I know it can be so hard to NOT pour all your energy into your H and your R and what is going wrong and what you can do to fix it-- but you need to take care of yourself, first and foremost. give yourself a hug and a break.
Cathy C,
You mentioned this might be your third divorce. Can you give us a little backstory on those marriages? How long they were for? How those husbands treated you? How they ended?
Also - since you have no kids - a little break from the toxic environment might be beneficial. Do you have any friends houses you can stay at for a few days? What is your financial situation? Do you have access to funds or does your husband control the finances?
Do you all ever look at these threads (as an outsider) and just ask......"why do you want to continue down this path?"
There have been plenty of situations where I have thought that. Most involved infidelity. Like why would someone want to stay with someone that cheated on them? But at the same time I get it. I had a good friend whose longtime BF was a jerk, but she had 7 years into him and didn't want to feel like those were wasted years.
So yes, if you were willing to walk away from this situation no one would blame you, and might even encourage it. But we also understand why you want to try to save it. All be it, it shouldn't be a "save it at any cost" thing either. It would be nuts for you to want to save your marriage and keep the dynamic you have been living with for the last few years.
Valeska19,
My last two marriages, the first, I was just too young, we grew apart and he cheated. My second marriage I thought was great. I found out after 3 months (post incident) or so when I was out of town doing clinical for my graduate program, he cheated. I could not get past either of them. It felt “easier” to walk away from something I could justify (maybe).
I do have plenty of friends I could stay with and he doesn’t control the money. We have a joint account but each of us have separate accounts. I refuse to leave my animals. I have three cats. He loves them and would feed them but I doubt he’d clean their boxes. In the past when I’ve had to travel he did and maybe he would now.
I was diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism on 1/20/22. I am on a high dose of blood thinner right now so all of my things I enjoy doing are taking a backseat so that I can heal. It is very cold here with snow/ice on the ground so I have to even be careful walking as to not fall. I love my work and tend to pour myself into work. After another week or so on such I high dose, I will start to taper down and be more active again. On the normal I am very active with biking and I play roller derby. But with covid our practices had to stop. We are scheduled to return to practice 2/20/22 but it looks like I will be in a coaching role for a bit until I’m off if this medication. Many different dynamics going on.
Obviously, your health comes first. I would highly suggest finding things that occupy your mind. Hobbies, projects, other things you can engage in that will break the monotony of sitting around and dwelling on your situation.
As far as your previous marriages, I feel like cheating is a dealbreaker for most people. However, when faced with their spouse cheating, many hedge on that being a dealbreaker. So I give you a lot of credit, for someone that has admitted to being a bit of a doormat in the past, that you stood up for yourself and walked away from your previous marriages due to infidelity being a dealbreaker shows you can do that.
Cathy, my W and I were also IHS. IHS is rough, no question. I know you have mentioned it a few times. One thing to keep in mind is that we've seen many LBSs here that felt IHS was too difficult and pushed for physical separation, only to realize they disliked being separated physically even more! For full disclosure, it did help some be able to move forward and more easily emotionally detach. But for a lot it falls into the category of "be careful what you wish for." Many after separation end up fixated on wondering what their WAS is doing and whom they are doing it with.
Just something to think about.
SteveLW,
Honestly the IHS doesn’t bother me that badly, simply because of what you explained. I think my issue is, I don’t know what to do. There’s no neutral except for the way it’s been. We’re not fighting. We have the occasional dinner together and have very superficial conversation. Now what? This is where I’m stuck. Can he miss me? I mean, seriously the only thing that I feel like I do have going for me is that I am NOT worrying about where he is or who he’s with and someone is still paying half of the bills.
I have really had to force myself to slow down since my medical issue. I was working 70-80 week at times. I didn’t start working that much until our situation here had already fallen apart and the verbal/emotional abuse had started. I buried myself in work. I am fortunate to have a job that I love but I work in healthcare and I see patients in their homes. We literally have a primary/urgent care business so needless to say business has been booming due in the pandemic. So there’s always the added stress of bringing covid home. I have been blessed this far. But under normal circumstances, im not home “all of the time”.
Steve,
How did you handle staying in the same house and making things work? I feel like I am spinning my wheels. I cook dinner, we have dinner and superficial conversation, he retreats to the basement. He will occasionally show me a video that he thinks is funny, then retreats to the basement.
I don't go down there an bother him unless I step down to the foot of the steps to let him know dinner is ready.
I really feel like I am STILL just walking on eggshells because I DON'T know what to do. :-(
Cathy,
The hardest thing to do is realize there is absolutely nothing you can do to change his mind other then go out and live a kickass life and hope some day he wants to join you. There are no tricks, techniques, or ploys to bring him back. You can not control another human beings feelings.
The quicker you understand this the better you will do. These things take a really long time to completely play out and take a lot of strength and perseverance. Unfortunately there are no short cuts.
Steve,
How did you handle staying in the same house and making things work? I feel like I am spinning my wheels. I cook dinner, we have dinner and superficial conversation, he retreats to the basement. He will occasionally show me a video that he thinks is funny, then retreats to the basement.
I don't go down there an bother him unless I step down to the foot of the steps to let him know dinner is ready.
I really feel like I am STILL just walking on eggshells because I DON'T know what to do. :-(
Why are you still cooking dinner for both of you?
You cook. You eat. If he comes up and there are leftovers then you make it known he is welcome to eat. He cleans up after himself, you clean up after yourself.
You are under the same roof, but you are not together, because he has deemed it so. So you show him what it means to be separated. What you are doing is trying to hold on, still. He is enjoying his cake,living downstairs, by himself, and still enjoying the frults that you provide, and eating it too. So you take those fruits away.
Eggshells is an apt description. As long as you continue IHS there will be a bit of a walking on eggshells feeling. It is impossible to avoid it entirely. I know you said you are still recovering from something, but the best way to get off of those eggshells is to go out and get a life. During our IHS I stayed as busy as I could. I was going out with buddies, going up the hunting property on the weekend. When I was home I was busy either reading, or doing things outside. I was not perfect at all of this, but over time I got better.
Once you start to emotionally detach, once you start to get busy with other things in your life, once you start to get really good as showing him what life without you will be like, the better you will start to feel. And sometimes....SOMETIMES it causes the WAS to wonder what the heck is going on and start sniffing around. Did you follow cadet's advice and read the distance/pursuit thread?
Steve's advice is spot on.
GAL - Go out and do things that push you outside your comfort zone. Salsa lessons, spent time with friends, join a gym etc. Doing things like this builds confidence and can be very attractive to a WAS.
Your goal should be to get to the point you are no longer living in fear and wondering what your H is doing/not doing. And once you get to the point, there will be a shift in energy that your H will feel. He will notice not because you told him what you are doing, or because you are peacocking and trying to get him to notice your changes, but because you will give off a different vibe, a quiet confidence.
You want to get to the point where your H actually starts to fear losing you.
Cathy, the quicker you're able to shift your energy away from him and towards yourself, the more your H feels it, the more those distance-pursuer dynamics work for you. These situations usually take years to play out, but sometimes they take months. Do your best. See what happens. Post daily about what you're doing to GAL vs. what interactions you're having with him.
I was surprised that you're still cooking for him. Maybe you've made other changes. What are you doing differently since joining so you don't follow the usual slow crawl to divorce?
LH19, SteveLW, Thornton, and Traveler all have great advice for you. I agree w/them.
What would happen if you stopped making dinner for him and instead made yourself scarce in the evenings around the usual time? E.g., meet up with a friend for dinner one night, pack a sandwich and go on a hike the next, go to the movie theatre another evening...etc. You don't have to tell him or explain yourself...just go out and have fun.
To be honest, I haven't "done" anything differently. Again, my time has been super slowed with the development of a pulmonary embolism. Our weather here is super crappy and I absolutely cannot risk getting out right now and falling or hurting myself. I am transitioning to my lower dose next week, so I should be able to do more things, as well as start back working my PT job as well, and that usually has me out until he is asleep when I get home.
I realize that my actions are not in line with many of the things that I have read. It is SO hard for me. I DON'T know how to not take care of people. That is my profession and that is what I have done with him for 11 years.
I do not engage in conversations with him, ask him what he is doing or where he is going. Again, I do not go to the basement unless I did cook and tell him it's done OR I am doing laundry. Which is in a separate room. I go down, wash/dry and leave without speaking or having superficial conversation. He does offer up information to me, like, I've been called into work or I have to go here.......there.....etc.
I have noticed that at night time, I hear him talking on the phone. I have SERIOUSLY even contemplated putting a voice recorder in the area to see if he is talking to someone else. I feel like ANYTHING other than "we don't work" would give me the validity to move forward with sinking into a deep depression. I am trying. I have friend coming in from back home tomorrow and we are going out and I am going to a friends house tomorrow night for a girls night.
This struggle bus is REAL for me. As, I am sure it was for every single person in here. I just absolutely do not KNOW how to break the true pursuer cycle. Not that I am running him down; but big picture.
I am really trying more meditation, positive affirmations and reading a TON. AND, although our problems have been mounting for years and there is NO excuse for the verbal and emotional abuse (which has been hard for me to grasp.....I seriously tried to figure out what I was doing to deserve that and to stop doing whatever I was doing to make him so angry), it is still very "new" and raw and I am trying to figure out what my new normal looks like.
I really feel like if he were out of the house I could begin healing; on the flip side of that, just like Steve said.....I think that I would spend countless hours wondering where he was, who he was with and what he was doing. :-(
Cathy, there are unfortunately no shortcuts to any of this. You have to muddle through as best you can. Those in IHS always think it would be easier in physical separation. Those physically separated struggle with not having contact and not being able to "show" changes. There is no one is better than the other, unfortunately.
But you have to stop being his wife. He has fired you from that role. You can characterize it as "not being able to not take care of him". But in reality, it is your fear telling you that if you aren't "nice" then he will leave. Fear is your enemy, it will cause you to do thing that bring about exactly what you fear! Nicing him back by taking care of him is only reinforcing to him that he wants to move on. Your best next step is to STOP being his wife, stop taking care of him. Let him see what life is like without Cathy playing his wife. Stop letting him cake eat.
I believe there is a book for "nice girls" just like there is one for nice guys. Look for No More Mrs. Nice Girl or a similar book. It will teach you about trying to be "nice" in order to "deserve" better treatment, better relationships, etc.
I am starting to repeat previous advice so I will stop for now. But until you are ready to change your dynamic, your dynamic will not change.
I DON'T know how to not take care of people. That is my profession and that is what I have done with him for 11 years.
You ARE looking out for him by stopping those spousely duties--cooking, laundry, dishes, shopping, etc. You're honoring his request and showing him now WHILE THERE'S STILL A CHANCE TO FIX THINGS what life without Cathy as his wife looks like. When my son was in preschool and opted not to wear his jacket, I let him be cold and learn his lesson. That came from love, not anger.
If he responds with verbal abuse, you REFUSE to accept it, because you're worth more than that! Besides, you're showing him you've changed by not breaking down or responding in kind.
I hear you that it's hard to GAL outside your home this week. A girlfriend's house is great!
I have SERIOUSLY even contemplated putting a voice recorder in the area to see if he is talking to someone else.
It sounds like he's been clear with you that in his mind you two are through. Putting a voice recorder in his room would be an invasion of his privacy and perhaps illegal. The consequences if he found out, or if you caught him pursuing a woman but didn't act, may be high. He may not be able to forgive you. You'd look weak. You'd have trouble unhearing. All these are common outcomes we've seen before. It's also focusing on him instead of focusing on you, the nurturing CathyC!
To be honest - I am not sure your husband is a "typical WAH" or that our advice to you should be similar to those we give to other newcomers.
Whilst I agree that your H has fired you as his wife - based on what you have explained - he is also Abusive. You titled your post "verbal abuse" but spying with cameras is also a form of abuse. You said he would rather hit a wall than you... is that because he has done so? Does he hit or throw things?
Of course we can only go off of what you tell us but my gut says to be very careful Cathy. Defiance of standing up for oneself usually escalates the abuse. Use caution and please have a safety plan in place.
SteveLW,
I know that this is the second time that you said it, but for whatever reason, it resonated with me this time; you're right.....he fired me from being his wife. That hits a little different than anything else has for some reason.
As difficult as that was for me to think about, hear and attempt to accept, I needed to hear that again. :-)
Yes, I think that is why so many of us word it that way, it is impactful to understand exactly what he is telling you. So many LBSs hear "I don't want to be married anymore" from their WAS, and what they hear is "You better become super-spouse or I am going to leave!" That isn't what they are saying. In fact, most WASs get irritated with the LBS when they suddenly become the perfect spouse. Their attitude is "Where was this all along? It is too little too late!"
So the best thing to do is to give them what they want. A life without you. Go live an awesome life on your own, and maybe they'll be attracted back and get interested again.
Cathy, I know you are still recovering, and you have a friend coming in. Start making your plans for what you want to do once you get back on your feet, back to work. IC? Support group? Reconnecting with old friends? Rediscovering old hobbies and activities? Have a plan, and then put that plan into action.
Hi Cathy,
Just a few things.
1) I really truly think your husband is deeply depressed, that being said if he refuses to get help for his mental health you are under no obligation to deal with it. You are under no obligation to deal with his outburst, or his paranoia, or his made up history of your relationship. Think of him as a mean drunk. Would you take this if he has AODA issues? If the answer is no, then don't take it. Depression is treatable, if he chooses not to treat it that's on him
2) IHS is super intense and really hard. I'd recommend reading through the MLC thread. Their situations aren't exactly the same as yours but I think it would be more similar than a lot of the newbies' situations here. You in particular might want to look at cardinal's thread. No kids, IHS, H is petty and mean, and can be verbally abusive. She's been doing this a long time, and they are finally in the D stage but he's still in the house and dragging his feet every step of the way. Maybe it'll help you if you see how common this hot mess is.
3) The best thing you can do for you and for your MR is to worry about you and do your best to work toward detaching. The sooner you can step back from H and his ugly words the better you will feel. The sooner you get some of yourself back the sooner you can stop walking on eggshells in your own house. Take some of that energy you've being dumping into worry about this, and trying to save this and worry about you and save you from this. Your mental health matters here. Yout feelings matter here. You matter. And you being happy, healthy, and whole is more important than anything else right now. Exercise radical self love. H doesn't want to love you any more. Fine. You're going to love yourself better than he ever did.
Good luck. You can do this.
Valeska19,
He has thrown things. Not at me or toward me or even about me; but in a rage of anger. I REALLY do not believe that he would ever physically hit me. He KNOWS that he would lose everything.
With that being said, the things that have come out of his mouth are just awful. I never thought that I would ever hear him say some of those things either.
I seriously worry more about him hurting himself than me.
And Traveler, you are right, I would NOT be able to unhear some of those things and it IS a bad idea. Again, I think that I am grasping at any type of "reasoning" what-so-ever as to what has made him like this. The whole thing of him setting up the cameras to spy on me just gave me a super uneasy feeling as to "what are YOU doing?" I feel like I can put my finger on him at any given point of the day, and I really feel as though he is NOT having a physical relationship; but for all I know, he COULD think that the grass is greener because he is involved in an emotional relationship. To be clear, I have NOT put a recorder in, but it HAS crossed my mind.
Cathy, I hope you're right. It scares me that you never thought he would call you what he has, yet he has. And now you are certain he'd never touch you. Please just be cautious and protect yourself.