I failed to read the 100 post rule, so here is my thread continued.
Italy will be a great place to start mingling with people again, getting out and enjoying myself.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2924347#Post2924347
[quote=BL42Have you had a relationship talk recently? I know those tend to be frown on around here but it seems like your situation is a bit different from many of the newcomer threads with a clear affair and running off with another person. You've had time apart, you've spent Holidays together for awhile (I'm assuming amicably), neither of you are rushing the D, if what you heard is right she's frustrated with the dating world and has given you hint of wanting to reconcile. I wonder if broaching the subject to see where she stands wouldn't be warranted in this case. I'm no expert though, who knows...others may disagree.[/quote]
I do disagree. As I said her actions are pretty clear, words won't change that. Rarely does broaching an R talk result in the clarity that a LBS seeks. It will likely result in more confusion.
Remember: When she wants to reconcile, you will know. When she doesn't, you will be confused.
Mach, do you know or are you confused? The answer to that gives you the answer you seek.
I do disagree. As I said her actions are pretty clear, words won't change that. Rarely does broaching an R talk result in the clarity that a LBS seeks. It will likely result in more confusion.
I disagree. A simple question "are you in or are you out" gives you the answer you seek. Direct and to the point so there is no confusion.
[quote=BL42Have you had a relationship talk recently? I know those tend to be frown on around here but it seems like your situation is a bit different from many of the newcomer threads with a clear affair and running off with another person. You've had time apart, you've spent Holidays together for awhile (I'm assuming amicably), neither of you are rushing the D, if what you heard is right she's frustrated with the dating world and has given you hint of wanting to reconcile. I wonder if broaching the subject to see where she stands wouldn't be warranted in this case. I'm no expert though, who knows...others may disagree.
I do disagree. As I said her actions are pretty clear, words won't change that. Rarely does broaching an R talk result in the clarity that a LBS seeks. It will likely result in more confusion.
Remember: When she wants to reconcile, you will know. When she doesn't, you will be confused.
Mach, do you know or are you confused? The answer to that gives you the answer you seek.[/quote]
When I have broached the topic in the past, a while ago. She says, she has thought about it, but is terrified I will go back to what I was before.. Cant convince her any different, its all on her to decide..
But that was a while ago.
I havent broached the topic of R , and dont really want to.
Then I would say it is time to file my friend.
Something weird happened on my reply.
Here was my reply in post #2924806 at 402pm
When I have broached the topic in the past, a while ago. She says, she has thought about it, but is terrified I will go back to what I was before.. Cant convince her any different, its all on her to decide..
But that was a while ago.
I havent broached the topic of R , and dont really want to .
Mach, WASs words are meaningless. It amazes me when LBSs put stock into words of people that were willing to break the most sacred oath two people can make to one another.
So you are wise to gauge things based on her deeds. Her words are meaningless.
Mach40,
How's it going? Are you eating pasta and drinking wine in Italy?
Mach40,
How's it going? Are you eating pasta and drinking wine in Italy?
Wine, Beer, and no carbonated water, lol. I dont know how they drink this bubbly water. nasty.
Our hotel has a restaurant that delivers.. Very good food.
Going to Rome this weekend, Vatican next weekend for the guided tour.. We hope.. Covid makes everything a little restrictive on tickets etc.. We shall see.
I have already had two solid conversation with women here. Good times. Just flirting a little..
Mach40,
I have already had two solid conversation with women here. Good times. Just flirting a little..
Excellent. Good to flex your flirting muscles!
Going to Rome this weekend, Vatican next weekend for the guided tour.. We hope.. Covid makes everything a little restrictive on tickets etc.. We shall see.
Enjoy the rest of your trip! That is some great GAL. Hope you get to see the sites.
I highly recommend the "Scavi Tour" if possible. It's a private guided tour of the excavation underneath St Peter's Basilica which ends up in the church - very informative and full of history - but usually needs to be booked months in advance so may not be an option at this point.
Hey everyone.. Been doing alright. Ladies here are definitely flirtatious etc... Very nice..
But on a side note, I keep tripping up slightly..
See, my wife and I have known each other for almost 31 years. So, we have a tendency to talk, and just get lifes stuff done for the kids..
So, for example, my youngest is going to need some help getting to her boyfriends graduation from AF bootcamp. I told my daughter I would help.. Wife texted and said she would plan it out with daughter and work the costs out with me etc.
Then we just started talking about other things, as if nothing has changed.
So, how do you stop getting back in the normal lane and stop taking exits when speaking to separated wife, WAS? I get too comfortable when we talk and forget she is super sweet, ( genuinely to me) yet deep down I know our lives arent getting back together as a couple.
Is this making sense.
Feelings get triggered quickly, but I know she is way further down the GAL phase than I am...
Go back to basics and treat her like the cashier at the store. The cashier at the store is sweet too. But you don't over share with the sweet cashier at the store.
SteveLW, 31 years is a long time to treat her like a cashier, but I understand...
So Mach I think you need to think about self care here. If these talks are triggering to you then you need to cut it off after the kids business is taken care of.
If I were a betting man I would say you’re still trying to nice her back. Also if I were a betting man I would say you will end these kind of convos when a boyfriend pops up.
If the 31 years really means something to you then be friends with her with zero expectations. This kind of relationship is what is best for the kids.
SteveLW, 31 years is a long time to treat her like a cashier, but I understand...
I am not sure I said to do it for 31 years. Do it as long as it takes for you not to get sucked in. I mean unless you're okay with being BFFs. Up to you, but most of us weren't willing to settle for that. Some LBSs have ended up D'd, remaining friends, and then get the joy of her sharing about her new relationships. I'd rather be enemies than go through that.
Everyday is a learning experience, and every relationship is different. I am learning, trust me, and continue to accept constructive criticism from all..
Mach40,
Your children are adults now and you shouldn't have to communicate with your W to help them out, if you don't want to.
If I were a betting man I would say you’re still trying to nice her back. Also if I were a betting man I would say you will end these kind of convos when a boyfriend pops up.
I'd put my money LH's take.
Mach40,
Your children are adults now and you shouldn't have to communicate with your W to help them out, if you don't want to.
If I were a betting man I would say you’re still trying to nice her back. Also if I were a betting man I would say you will end these kind of convos when a boyfriend pops up.
I'd put my money LH's take.
Yes, I have a bad habit of being nice.. If I stop, I worry she will have no reason to talk to me.. Its a problem I have been working on.. Hard with the girls and grand kids living with her.
If BF pops up, I will probably fade away....
If I stop, I worry she will have no reason to talk to me.. Its a problem I have been working on.. Hard with the girls and grand kids living with her. If BF pops up, I will probably fade away....
So Mach then what you are doing now is manipulation. I will be your friend as long as you don't have a BF. This is more of the PA behavior we have discussed in the past.
If I stop, I worry she will have no reason to talk to me.. Its a problem I have been working on.. Hard with the girls and grand kids living with her. If BF pops up, I will probably fade away....
So Mach then what you are doing now is manipulation. I will be your friend as long as you don't have a BF. This is more of the PA behavior we have discussed in the past.
Makes perfect sense. I have been watching my PA behavior, reading on how to be self aware and stop doing it..
I will stop. I have been paying attention. Birthday and Christmas is all from now on..
I am doing the best I can.
Mach40,
If I stop, I worry she will have no reason to talk to me.. Its a problem I have been working on.. Hard with the girls and grand kids living with her. If BF pops up, I will probably fade away....
So Mach then what you are doing now is manipulation. I will be your friend as long as you don't have a BF. This is more of the PA behavior we have discussed in the past.
Makes perfect sense. I have been watching my PA behavior, reading on how to be self aware and stop doing it..
I will stop. I have been paying attention. Birthday and Christmas is all from now on..
I am doing the best I can.
Don't beat yourself up over it. Just do what you can to work on it going forward. I can imagine with your daughters and grandkids living with her it's complicated - you understandably want to stay involved in their lives.
Hi Mach,
You’ve heard from a couple of people who’ve chosen to cut ties with their previous life partners. I’ll speak for the other side. My XW of 11yrs and I are friends. Some advantages of this: 1) I had my kids for 5hrs on Halloween so they could attend my party despite being her day, 2) She’ll have my D for 2hrs today despite it being my day to tutor her in math, 3) Fpr big celebrations like graduations we make a single plan together and there’s little awkwardness.
This besides the key point you made that you’ve known each other for 31yrs. You have kids together. That’s not an easy relationship to replace.
So Mach then what you are doing now is manipulation. I will be your friend as long as you don't have a BF.
I agree with LH that if you’ll stop being friends when she finds a BF, then this doesn’t sound like a healthy friendship. Now, it’s okay to have BOUNDARIES on a relationship! My ex and I talk about life but we do not talk about dating, BFs/GFs, or our sex lives. If you’d be okay with friendship as long as BFs are not a topic, you still may be able to have a healthy friendship with her.
Hi Mach,
You’ve heard from a couple of people who’ve chosen to cut all ties they could with their previous life partners. I’ll speak for the other side. My XW of 11yrs and I are friends. Some advantages of this: 1) I had my kids for 5hrs on Halloween so they could attend my patty despite being her day, 2) She’ll have my D for 2hrs today despite it being my day to tutor her in math, 3) Fpr big celebrations like graduations we make a single plan together and there’s little awkwardness.
This besides the key point you made that you’ve known each other for 31yrs. You have kids together. That’s not an easy relationship to replace.
So Mach then what you are doing now is manipulation. I will be your friend as long as you don't have a BF.
I agree with LH that if you’ll stop being friends when she finds a BF, then this doesn’t sound like a healthy friendship. Now, it’s okay to have BOUNDARIES on a relationship! My ex and I talk about life but we do not talk about dating, BFs/GFs, or our sex lives. If you’d be okay with friendship as long as BFs are not a topic, you still may be able to have a healthy friendship with her.
Cws you can correct me if I am wrong but didn't this wonderful relationship you have with your wife take years to develop? Mach isn't even divorced yet.
LH, absolutely. It was 3-5yrs out I burned through anger, 5-7yrs out we began getting friendlier. If I could give younger me advise, it’d be to get therapy to work through that process in less time. Life is short and relationships are precious. We’re both sharing possible futures; Mach will have to work out what he can handle for now and what he’s aiming for for now. I wish him luck!
I have been through therapy with counselors for some time. None have given me the straight up advice and openness here..
I know I have control issues, manipulation and passive aggressiveness.
I have been working it, but sometimes I forget and do things not thinking of what it does to the other person. Making them feel guilty, obligated etc...
I have been through therapy with counselors for some time. None have given me the straight up advice and openness LIKE here..
I know I have control issues, manipulation and passive aggressiveness.
I have been working it, but sometimes I forget and do things not thinking of what it does to the other person. Making them feel guilty, obligated etc...
Meant to say like the advice I have received here...
I have been through therapy with counselors for some time. None have given me the straight up advice and openness here..
I know I have control issues, manipulation and passive aggressiveness.
I have been working it, but sometimes I forget and do things not thinking of what it does to the other person. Making them feel guilty, obligated etc...
Until you fix your own issues, any R, with her or someone new, will be a ticking timebomb waiting to explode again. Fixing issues like you mention above does not happen overnight. It takes time, practice, IC, and lots of self-control. Keep focusing on you Mach40. If the friend-zone is something you are okay with, then keep engaging her in such a way!
It makes me think of the Crunch bar commercial. The girl says "Crunch bars made my breakup easy!" And her now ex-BF sitting on the other end of the bench says very cheerily "I am in the friend-zone!"
I will never tell someone that likes the FZ that they shouldn't be in it. As long as their expectations are in line with reality.
One thing that isnt quite clear is, being just a friend is not marriage.
It almost sounds like you should be divorced, so both of you can move forward, then reconcile if things turn around in the future.
But, being married and acting single, not living with each other, is not a marriage..
Thoughts?
One thing that isnt quite clear is, being just a friend is not marriage.
It almost sounds like you should be divorced, so both of you can move forward, then reconcile if things turn around in the future.
But, being married and acting single, not living with each other, is not a marriage..
Thoughts?
100%.
Mach I hate to break it to you but your W moved on long ago. Most likely years.
Do you know when you are 100% most likely to reconcile effectively?
When you no longer care if you do or not.
That's the honest and sad truth. Reconciliation requires a level playing field, an even starting line. BOTH of you need to be willing to walk and to believe the other one will leave. That makes you something worth having.
One thing that isnt quite clear is, being just a friend is not marriage.
It almost sounds like you should be divorced, so both of you can move forward, then reconcile if things turn around in the future.
But, being married and acting single, not living with each other, is not a marriage..
Thoughts?
Correct. Neither are a "marriage".
But being in the FZ certainly doesn't lead to reconcilation. Most WAS want to remain friends with their LBS. For me, I took that option off table immediately
I got the "I hope we can still be friends" comment. To which I said ""No, being friends would mean I wasn't moving forward with my life. That isn't fair to me." She never brought it up again.
^ With kids, no matter their age, you have to have some level of friendship with ex.. Unless there is abuse or something else, I cant see not being friendly/friends during events etc. if around each other.
Now, maybe you mean not being friends going out and doing things together as if nothing has happened.. This would and can send mixed signals.
So you do know the difference between being friendly and being friends right?
So you do know the difference between being friendly and being friends right?
Yes, I do..
Then we just started talking about other things, as if nothing has changed.
Feelings get triggered quickly, but I know she is way further down the GAL phase than I am...
This needs to stop until you can emotionally handle it.
^ With kids, no matter their age, you have to have some level of friendship with ex..
You don't. My long-term XGF saw her XH during Back to School Night last year, and it was the first time she'd seen him in 3 years. I'm friends with my XW and we have no interest in meeting new partners. My GF is friendly with her XH and he's okay with meeting me. I've been amazed in my 11 years since divorce how many different varieties of ex relationships are out there. I recommend against "feuding" with your ex, but beyond that, it's whatever works best for you.
So you do know the difference between being friendly and being friends right?
Yes, I do..
LH said exactly what I was going to say.
Friendly when HAVE to be around her is different than being BFFs.
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
The only other issue is when she asks to go to lunch or get coffee......Just saying, as it has and will happen.
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
You politely decline. Sorry I have plans.
The only other issue is when she asks to go to lunch or get coffee......Just saying, as it has and will happen.
You politely decline. Sorry I have plans.
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
Mach, that's up to what would feel good to you. I don't do Christmas with my ex. This year, the kids will spend the early part of Christmas vacation and Christmas Eve at mom's, and Christmas Day and the later part of Christmas vacation at dad's. My kids look forward to Christmas with me because it normally means a trip to find and chop down a treee plus a vacation--my ex was allergic to road trips, so that's uniquely me. I'm curious if a combined Christmas is a tradition you plan to continue once you have new partners. If not, consider what tradition(s) you want to begin around the holiday season?
You might ask, "Doesn't this contradict my XW being a friend?!" Well, I don't do Christmas Day with friends. For me, the holiday is about spending time with my close family. To each their own.
If you're struggling, stronger boundaries, to begin with, may be helpful.
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
The only other issue is when she asks to go to lunch or get coffee......Just saying, as it has and will happen.
"I appreciate the invite, however I have plans of my own. Thank you though!"
She she asks to go get lunch or coffee, you are busy. She may ask with what, just respond that you are busy and it is none of her business with what.
Mach40, what you have been doing hasn't worked. You obviously are struggling with it. So start changing your approach.
As far as the holidays, surely you both have put a child care plan in place? "I get Thanksgiving, you get the day after. I get Christmas Eve, you get Christmas morning and Christmas. I get NYE, you get NY's day." Next year we flip that. The next year back to this. Rinse repeat.
The only other issue is when she asks to go to lunch or get coffee......J
So Mach be 100% honest. Why do you accept these invitations?
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
Mach, that's up to what would feel good to you. I don't do Christmas with my ex. This year, the kids will spend the early part of Christmas vacation and Christmas Eve at mom's, and Christmas Day and the later part of Christmas vacation at dad's. My kids look forward to Christmas with me because it normally means a trip to find and chop down a treee plus a vacation--my ex was allergic to road trips, so that's uniquely me. I'm curious if a combined Christmas is a tradition you plan to continue once you have new partners. If not, consider what tradition(s) you want to begin around the holiday season?
You might ask, "Doesn't this contradict my XW being a friend?!" Well, I don't do Christmas Day with friends. For me, the holiday is about spending time with my close family. To each their own.
If you're struggling, stronger boundaries, to begin with, may be helpful.
Pretty harsh to say I dont do Christmas with friends, but its the truth.. We did do Christmas brunches, partys day before with friends.
This year I will have to make a tough choice.. Her Mom just passed, and her Dad and I get along great.. So, for Christmas that will be a tough one.
Thanksgiving her sister always does the big family shindig at her home. I can skip that, do my own thing and just have kids stop by on the way to there. Last time I skipped out kids were upset..
Okay, so when I am invited to Thanksgiving, B Days, and Christmas etc, just be friendly..
Mach, that's up to what would feel good to you. I don't do Christmas with my ex. This year, the kids will spend the early part of Christmas vacation and Christmas Eve at mom's, and Christmas Day and the later part of Christmas vacation at dad's. My kids look forward to Christmas with me because it normally means a trip to find and chop down a treee plus a vacation--my ex was allergic to road trips, so that's uniquely me. I'm curious if a combined Christmas is a tradition you plan to continue once you have new partners. If not, consider what tradition(s) you want to begin around the holiday season?
You might ask, "Doesn't this contradict my XW being a friend?!" Well, I don't do Christmas Day with friends. For me, the holiday is about spending time with my close family. To each their own.
If you're struggling, stronger boundaries, to begin with, may be helpful.
Pretty harsh to say I dont do Christmas with friends, but its the truth.. We did do Christmas brunches, partys day before with friends.
This year I will have to make a tough choice.. Her Mom just passed, and her Dad and I get along great.. So, for Christmas that will be a tough one.
Thanksgiving her sister always does the big family shindig at her home. I can skip that, do my own thing and just have kids stop by on the way to there. Last time I skipped out kids were upset..
Child arrangements are a big deal. that you are so laissez-faire about all of this is troubling to me. D is about two people separating their lives. Unfortunately, that means that kids split time with those two individuals. I can understand them being upset, but it will become the new normal for them. Many here have been through and will assure you that the kids will adapt. That you are the best father you can be is more important than anything else. But that doesn't mean attending her family events.
Did you ever have a sit down with ex and go over boundaries, issues etc to keep things civil?
Did you ever have a sit down with ex and go over boundaries, issues etc to keep things civil?
No, it sounds like a confused concept. A boundary is a limit you place on yourself--e.g., "I'm not going to accept coffee shop invites." You enforce it by saying "No, thank you." to coffee shop invites. There's normally no need for a deep conversation about your limits. You be civil, by being civil. You don't control whether she's civil. What is it you're really wanting to say to her just now?
Did you ever have a sit down with ex and go over boundaries, issues etc to keep things civil?
Mach you can’t be afraid to upset her. Again you can be friends with her if that works for you. If you keep politely declining she will eventually get the hint. I think you are over reacting that you turning down coffee will make it uncivil.
I believe Mach40's daughters are 21 and 31 so there isn't any official custody agreement stating every other year birthday or split Christmas...etc., and his wife got her own place just a year and half ago so they don't have any typical rhythm from years of divorce which they can fall back to. Do I remember correctly that your daughters live with your W? That might further complicate things, giving his W the "home advantage" and having Mach wanting to keep involved.
It really is up to Mach and his daughters at this point to arrange some sort of split for the holidays if he wants to change the dynamic.
I believe Mach40's daughters are 21 and 31 so there isn't any official custody agreement stating every other year birthday or split Christmas...etc., and his wife got her own place just a year and half ago so they don't have any typical rhythm from years of divorce which they can fall back to. Do I remember correctly that your daughters live with your W? That might further complicate things, giving his W the "home advantage" and having Mach wanting to keep involved.
It really is up to Mach and his daughters at this point to arrange some sort of split for the holidays if he wants to change the dynamic.
Thanks BL. Yes I think he really needs to change this dynamic. I know it scares him, and he thinks remaining part of her family's celebrations is safer and more comfortable for him, but this has to happen eventually, I'd rather see him be proactive and use this holiday season to start that process. It is hard for a wound to heal until you remove all of the debris from the wound.
Hey, I am back. yes, Daughters both live with Wife, along with grand kids..
She says I can come over anytime, see the kids, and cats ( they were ours, animals, got to love them).
I invite the kids over all the time, and they come over at least once every two weeks when home.
Youngest and I will go to dinner, oldest will bring grands over and I will do dinner and stuff in the house with them.
As far as holidays... Well, I guess we need to start our own thing some time.. I will get my Thanksgiving Turkey planned and invite the kids over, prior to them going to their Aunts. Its going to cause some flack, only because I wont be seeing Father in Law and Brother in Law ( sisters husband, which, he is cool with it I am sure)
Christmas. I will get a tree when I get back, have grands and daughters stop by and decorate what they can.. And go from there..
Mach refresh my memory on the last relationship talk with your W.
Your sitch is odd.
Mach refresh my memory on the last relationship talk with your W.
Your sitch is odd.
Its been a while, really.
I vaguely remember her making comments like she was numb, no feelings, not attracted. But, had thought about getting back together but of course scared all I am doing was showing my best side etc, and would revert back to old self. Makes sense, I get that..
She mentioned she knows whomever I end up with will get a much improved person than what she had during our times.
Lately she has mentioned how happy I seem and such, dressed nicer. Very complimentary..
She did make a comment recently about how her Mom told her to let go of worrying about my feelings. Worry about her own feelings and heal.
She says she is very comfortable around me, not in a cocky way, just very relaxed around me..
I am just trying to remember things from previous conversations.
But the reality is, we are not engaging in any reconciliation or any relationship talks.Divorce, neither of us will or seems too, want to do it..
Both our lawyers said to us separately that they didnt think we ever will.. I thought that was weird, as they both work in different law firms.. She chuckled when I mentioned it after signing separation papers, as her lawyer didnt think we will get divorced. Not sure what she said to her lawyer.. Funny Hopium statements..
Sorry for the ramble. But, like I said in bold, no actual relationship talks have happened in quite some time. Cant even remember, probably end of 2020? If I remember anything.
Question is, what would I ask if I did ask where we are going? It seems it would just cause more distancing.
Mach, the sad reality is that most LBSs end up pushing the D through themselves even though it wasn't what they originally wanted. Having never been to that point, I cannot say for sure what I would or wouldn't do (LH will be the first to point that out!), but I cannot imagine going on without closure for more than a year or two. Limbo is bad. Long limbo is worse. I know you are still holding out hope, and you think, at least deep down, that being friends was the way to potentially get there. But you really need to start imaging what you want the rest of your life to look like, and then go start making that happen. If pushing the D to finality is a step in that process, then so be it.
Not sure if I am ready mentally for D. But, I do know, if she files, it will be mentally easier. If that makes sense..
The big problem is, you and I have no idea what she is thinking and where she is in her GAL and moving forward. Other than being 6 to 7 days a week immersed into her work, thats about all I really here, except grand kids issues..
The big problem is, you and I have no idea what she is thinking and where she is in her GAL and moving forward.
Why is this a problem?
Not sure if I am ready mentally for D. But, I do know, if she files, it will be mentally easier. If that makes sense..
The big problem is, you and I have no idea what she is thinking and where she is in her GAL and moving forward. Other than being 6 to 7 days a week immersed into her work, thats about all I really here, except grand kids issues..
Not sure why what she's thinking is relevant? This about Mach40 moving his life forward. Her thinking has no bearing on that.
The big problem is, you and I have no idea what she is thinking and where she is in her GAL and moving forward.
Why is this a problem?
I guess its the inner hopium, romantic.
If she wanted to get back, and I dropped the D on her.
That would be bad.
Just always thinking.
I have a huge reservior of patience. Its how I am wired in our relationship.
Personally I think you have one more talk with her that you either work things out or you are moving forward with the D. Not in a threatening way but for your own emotional well being you can't be friends anymore. But if she says no you have to follow through. Life is short my friend.
The big problem is, you and I have no idea what she is thinking and where she is in her GAL and moving forward.
Why is this a problem?
I guess its the inner hopium, romantic.
If she wanted to get back, and I dropped the D on her.
That would be bad.
Just always thinking.
I have a huge reservior of patience. Its how I am wired in our relationship.
Finalizing the D will have no bearing on her future desire to reconcile. This is a common fear and misconstrual by LBS. If she ever wants to R she will move mountains to try to do so. In fact, you want her to. Otherwise you won't know for sure if R is what she really wants.
Great help here. Thnx everyone...
Not to go forth and execute a plan..
Great help here. Thnx everyone...
Not to go forth and execute a plan..
NOW to go forth and execute a plan.. Dang fat fingers and phone.
Great help here. Thnx everyone...
Not to go forth and execute a plan..
NOW to go forth and execute a plan.. Dang fat fingers and phone.
I think you should run this plan by the board.
I am all for guidance, advice and path forward.
Right now it seems like I need to sit down with her, talk of where we are and whats happening. Then decide when to file for divorce, unless she throws a wrench in the fire and wants to reconcile, so we have ample time to get her health care looked into ( thats me ensuring she is covered properly without rushing into it). Shouldnt take long to find a health care plan.
Then talk about plan going forward, B Days and all Holidays are separate. The girls will understand.
Not very refined, this plan, but its a start to fine tune.
I need to sit down with her, talk of where we are and whats happening.
Hi Mach, Where ARE you? What IS happening? I think if you want this R talk to be meaningful, the burden is on you to say something meaningful. If my LBS started with those questions, I'd reply, "I'm in my house thinking about my plans for this weekend."
Then decide when to file for divorce
You will decide if/when to file after you tell her where you are and what's happening?
so we have ample time to get her health care looked into ( thats me ensuring she is covered properly without rushing into it).
Is your wife who wants to life solo mentally ill, suffering from Alzheimers, or something? I.e., why does she need your help for this. Do you feel she's incapable? Does she feel she's incapable?`
Then talk about plan going forward, B Days and all Holidays are separate. The girls will understand.
Have you thought through alternatives? Is that what you want?
Mach you need to make it clear about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth limbo. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far she said she is not attracted and numb to you. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
I am all for guidance, advice and path forward.
Right now it seems like I need to sit down with her, talk of where we are and whats happening. Then decide when to file for divorce, unless she throws a wrench in the fire and wants to reconcile, so we have ample time to get her health care looked into ( thats me ensuring she is covered properly without rushing into it). Shouldnt take long to find a health care plan.
Then talk about plan going forward, B Days and all Holidays are separate. The girls will understand.
Not very refined, this plan, but its a start to fine tune.
Mach, I'd prefer you skip the temp check and just go right to the discussion about B days and holidays. She will get the point and if she wants to R (unlikely so don't expect that) then you can go in that direction. Most of the time, WASs will always stick to their guns about not wanting to stay married when pressed. Which is one of the reasons it is advised against. When they want to R you will know. They will come to you. You won't need to initiate an R talk.
But you do seem determined to start an R talk. I think that's the whole reason you came back and gave an update. Your sitch so you get to decide.
I need to sit down with her, talk of where we are and whats happening.
Hi Mach, Where ARE you? What IS happening? I think if you want this R talk to be meaningful, the burden is on you to say something meaningful. If my LBS started with those questions, I'd reply, "I'm in my house thinking about my plans for this weekend."
Then decide when to file for divorce
You will decide if/when to file after you tell her where you are and what's happening?
so we have ample time to get her health care looked into ( thats me ensuring she is covered properly without rushing into it).
Is your wife who wants to life solo mentally ill, suffering from Alzheimers, or something? I.e., why does she need your help for this. Do you feel she's incapable? Does she feel she's incapable?`
Then talk about plan going forward, B Days and all Holidays are separate. The girls will understand.
Have you thought through alternatives? Is that what you want?
Okay, in regards to "Whats happening", I would ask where are we as a couple, is reconciliation and option? Explain I cant be her friend while separated, not healthy and sends wrong signals when we are around each other... As we are to comfortable around each other.. Almost the same as before we married.
My wife has some health issues, to where I would want to make sure she has good health plan to cover her illnesses.. Its just doing the right thing.. Research, and find a solid plan to ensure she is taken care of to her liking.
Not sure of any real alternatives. If I tell her I want a divorce, she may go passive aggressive and shut me down too. Never know. But, What would be a good alternative to any of the dates, holidays etc?
Separate holidays work for me. I had more than 50/50 custody for most of my kids' lives, and my home has always been the focus for "minor holidays" like Easter and Halloween and Thanksgiving and New Year's Eve. I still get more than 50/50 custody around the holidays. It's the arrangement all the single moms I've dated have chosen. In with the new, out with the old!
In your case, your Ds are adults, choose to live with XW, and the holidays have been focused around her family. Before making a grand pronouncement about all future holidays, I would consider trying whatever you plan to try for a season and see how it works out. Maybe it's great. Maybe it's terrible. Maybe your Ds understand or maybe they don't. After a year or two of space, you may love it, or be ready to reunite the holidays, or prefer to alternate houses for the holidays.
Just thoughts to take or leave. I wish you luck finding your way!
I cant be her friend while separated, not healthy and sends wrong signals when we are around each other...
Makes sense. It does sound like you've been struggling with maintaining friend boundaries.
My wife has some health issues, to where I would want to make sure she has good health plan to cover her illnesses.. Its just doing the right thing.. Research, and find a solid plan to ensure she is taken care of to her liking.
Props for being a good person, kind without expectations--you're no "Nice Guy(tm)".
Hey, Update here. Been talking to a couple ladies, well one is, lol. Seriously, its nice to talk to people, flirt a little and just be myself.
One is a lawyer and one a scientist. I will say, being smart doesnt always make you a person that can talk/communicate well outside your profession.
Lawyer is recently divorced, after 30 years, ouch. But super nice, just pleasant to talk too.
Other one is recently divorced too, but is full of themselves. Me me me me,,, Totally a turn off.
Both left the USA and came here to get away from their former married lives. Amazing, isnt it.
What do you mean talking?
What’s amazing?
What do you mean talking?
What’s amazing?
Whats amazing is being back in the mix of life and talking to people other than co workers, family etc. Not thinking about wife, etc etc and was just a good experience talking to a woman..
Just talking life, travel, laughing it up.. Its baby steps..
Was with the one of the ladies last night for a few hours. We drank some beers, and thoroughly enjoyed each others company.
You don’t want to be that married guy out there dating do you?
You don’t want to be that married guy out there dating do you?
Nope. But, I am just here a couple more days.. When I get home, I am going to get out more.. Taking time off from work too..
Hi Mach,
I don’t have any hang ups about married and dating—but I would at least settle your feelings about your XW first. I waited 4-6mo after being “100% done” with my last relationship before dating again. That way you know your decisions about giving up on the past relationship are not influenced by the new one and you aren’t masking baggage. Your post a week ago seems to indicate you are still attached to your XW and her feelings and choices.
Hi Mach,
I don’t have any hang ups about married and dating—but I would at least settle your feelings about your XW first. I waited 4-6mo after being “100% done” with my last relationship before dating again. That way you know your decisions about giving up on the past relationship are not influenced by the new one and you aren’t masking baggage. Your post a week ago seems to indicate you are still attached to your XW and her feelings and choices.
I imagine it gets easier to let the feelings go once I am dating and focusing on other people, vice sitting at home and doing nothing..
A couple nights with this lady has definitely inspired my mind to go forward..
Well what you want to do is build an amazing life that someone wants to become a part of moving forward. Focusing on another person will not bring you happiness. If it does it will be short lived.
Your healing and happiness doesn’t come from another person. That’s dependent on no one other than you.
But you definitely won’t find healing and happiness by sitting at home abs doing nothing.
Build a life outside of dating. You’ll find some good stuff there
Hi Mach,
I don’t have any hang ups about married and dating—but I would at least settle your feelings about your XW first. I waited 4-6mo after being “100% done” with my last relationship before dating again. That way you know your decisions about giving up on the past relationship are not influenced by the new one and you aren’t masking baggage. Your post a week ago seems to indicate you are still attached to your XW and her feelings and choices.
I imagine it gets easier to let the feelings go once I am dating and focusing on other people, vice sitting at home and doing nothing..
A couple nights with this lady has definitely inspired my mind to go forward..
I double down on what Ginger said. This is not the right approach. It is like having your arm severed and trying to use a bandaid on the stump. Find that inner strength, peace and happiness. If you assume dating someone new will fix your woes you will end up in the same situation down the line.
One of the biggest learnings I took from my most recent situation was that a healthy couple requires two grounded, happy, self-fulfilled individuals. Anything else is an over-attachment, too much stock put into the relationship recipe for distaster. That's what happened in my first sitch, we didn't deal with the underlying issues in the MR and we were a ticking timebomb for another walkaway scenario.
If it took a couple of nights with this lady to get you to start detaching from your EX, then I question whether you were putting in the hard work necessary to make your next R more successful.
Note, I'm not suggesting you don't date, that's up to you. But I would highly advise against using dating as your catalyst for moving forward.
Hi Mach,
I don’t have any hang ups about married and dating—but I would at least settle your feelings about your XW first. I waited 4-6mo after being “100% done” with my last relationship before dating again. That way you know your decisions about giving up on the past relationship are not influenced by the new one and you aren’t masking baggage. Your post a week ago seems to indicate you are still attached to your XW and her feelings and choices.
I imagine it gets easier to let the feelings go once I am dating and focusing on other people, vice sitting at home and doing nothing..
A couple nights with this lady has definitely inspired my mind to go forward..
I do agree sitting around doing nothing is also not good. Get out there and GAL! Staying busy is the best way to move forward with your life.
I imagine it gets easier to let the feelings go once I am dating and focusing on other people, vice sitting at home and doing nothing..
Hi Mach, you can not date, and not sit at home doing nothing. That's GAL. You know this.
Sometimes I need reminders, too. You could be spending an evening with friends old or new, working on a fitness journey e.g. hiking or running or cross-fit, or learning a new skill e.g. painting or music or cooking with or without other people.
A couple nights with this lady has definitely inspired my mind to go forward..
There are studies showing rebounds can help you move on faster. For Fireman, the rebound angered his wife and she told the kids and said it nixed any R chances. For me, it complicated the R when it came a month after the rebound. That's where I'm coming from when I say to be certain you're truly done with your old relationship before you dabble in dating.
Rebounds can be damaging when you don't realize it is one. Without taking time to heal, you're flinging baggage at the other person. I think this is ethically sound for a brief hookup or vacation fling, but unethical if they seek deeper (feeling involved) unless you're transparent about how long you've been "over" your ex (which is NOT your separation date, ::cough:: Steve_).
Finally, when the rebound runs its course, feelings about your ex typically return. KitKat (wonderful soul I miss) was devastated when a brief rebound (pilot) ended. I suspect much of the pain was unprocessed feelings about the old breakup returning now that the distraction had ended. Those painful feelings grow weaker by processing them, not by running from them.
You do you! After I left my XW (LBS), I quickly had a one-night stand with another woman (honestly, mediocre sex). It usefully drove a wedge between us that helped me not to look back.
.
Was with the one of the ladies last night for a few hours. We drank some beers, and thoroughly enjoyed each others company.
I'm still new, but that sounds like a date.
I am taking it all in everyone. I am a little slow to remember what needs to be done. I will refresh this thread as I go..
I will be stateside Monday...
Hi Mach,
I don’t have any hang ups about married and dating—but I would at least settle your feelings about your XW first. I waited 4-6mo after being “100% done” with my last relationship before dating again. That way you know your decisions about giving up on the past relationship are not influenced by the new one and you aren’t masking baggage. Your post a week ago seems to indicate you are still attached to your XW and her feelings and choices.
One of the things passed around here as far as dating is concerned is that it is best to wait one month for each year you were married.
I was marred 28 years and waited 3 years to start dating again.
It worked out well.
I am back in USA.. Damn flight was painful. I must attract unhappy women. Lady next to me was divorced once, and working on #2 divorce. After talking with her, it seems the entire country is divorced, nobody is happy or putting up with BS anymore.. Thats my take on her conversation, her ex co workers, and her friends. Crazy times..
These are not normal times. Paradox of choices and internet are deadly.. You can order a date via an app.. Think about it.
And, off my soap box.
Yo Mach you are sounding a little jaded my friend. Onward and upward!
I am back in USA.. Damn flight was painful. I must attract unhappy women. Lady next to me was divorced once, and working on #2 divorce. After talking with her, it seems the entire country is divorced, nobody is happy or putting up with BS anymore.. Thats my take on her conversation, her ex co workers, and her friends. Crazy times..
These are not normal times. Paradox of choices and internet are deadly.. You can order a date via an app.. Think about it.
And, off my soap box.
Mach, women used to bathe nude in their roofs (read the story of David and Bathsheba). There are always excuses for people to make bad choices.
Mach40,
Hope you enjoyed the vacation. What are your plans now that you're back home?
Mach40,
Hope you enjoyed the vacation. What are your plans now that you're back home?
Once I get situated back home, groceries etc, I am just going to start going out more for lunches, dinners, shows etc. Just get out and enjoy Charleston area.
I am reading more and more on Passive Aggressiveness', control and manipulation types and how to fix that within myself. Right now, all of this is through online articles.. Its a long slow process, but at least I know I have issues.
I am reading more and more on Passive Aggressiveness', control and manipulation types and how to fix that within myself. Right now, all of this is through online articles.. Its a long slow process, but at least I know I have issues.
That's fantastic--identifying and working on a problem area without any expectation of immediate gratification (e.g., "If I do this, my ex will return.") We all have problem areas. Strong!
So wife and I had talk about Holiday dinners, Christmas etc. Right now being a year of firsts, ( first Thanksgiving and Christmas without her Mother, as she passed this year), and most importantly for the kids/grandkids, we will have these two holidays and go forward from there.
My wife is very well educated, and well read in regards to everything she tackles. So, I have to agree its best to give it a try, then see what happens next year. She is so far ahead on the GAL and guarded, its amazing to see that someone can get that far after leaving someone. I commend her.
As far as having a another person with her or me at any of these events, its not going to happen as neither one of us is ready to tackle that..
She is working 6 to 7 days a week, and doesnt need the added stress of emotional commitments right now. This is not really relevant, just her talking to me about it.
After the first of the year I will be gone for about 4 to 5 months overseas. When I get back, I will file for divorce. I will inform her in between jobs so we can get her health care plan situated, as I stated before. Its just the right thing to do. Its not about feelings.
I may be all over the place, but I am going forward with things in life.
Not sure I understand all of that. If I can decipher it sounds like your are doing what you want to do, rather to than what is best, and making excuses why. Your life. Your sitch. Do what you want. Just realize that some of your choices will delay you moving forward, not help.
^, I thought I explained it somewhat. Holidays, we are going to do it together as normal. For the sake of the kids.
Neither will bring a date.
Divorce, first part of 2022.
Most important thing is me, fixing me.
Relationship with kids, and grand kids is solid..
M,
I agree at this point if you are cool with it there is no reason not to have the holidays together this year.
As for her BS about not being ready for a commitment blah blah blah. I would bet a million dollars she’s still on line dating but just hasn’t found anyone.
Yeah she has not attraction for you because you have become her emotional tampon meeting her for lunches and coffee. The quickest way to get someone’s attention is to remove yours.
Glad you are moving towards to D and if I were you I would file after the holidays. It takes a really long time and will give her plenty of time to get health insurance.
Onward and upward!
M,
I agree at this point if you are cool with it there is no reason not to have the holidays together this year.
As for her BS about not being ready for a commitment blah blah blah. I would bet a million dollars she’s still on line dating but just hasn’t found anyone.
Yeah she has not attraction for you because you have become her emotional tampon meeting her for lunches and coffee. The quickest way to get someone’s attention is to remove yours.
Glad you are moving towards to D and if I were you I would file after the holidays. It takes a really long time and will give her plenty of time to get health insurance.
Onward and upward!
Lawyer said maybe a month tops. Covid restrictions dont allow anyone in courts basically. 25 dollar process fee is already paid, year apart is met. Just a filing in this state..
Emotional Tampon. Interesting. Havent seen her in about 6 to 8 weeks, 4 due to travel. Well, I digress.
But I agree, removing my attention is the way to go. Worked on me.
Mach40,
I think what SteveLW and LH19 are saying is you're being W's emotional crutch by being there for her at the Holidays after her mom passed even though she separated from you and is heading towards a divorce. If you want to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas there because gives you more kid/grandkid time it probably won't be the make or break difference in a long term recon but not sure if helps your detachment or moving on. The frequent calls, lunches, and Holidays allow her to keep you on the hook.
Anyway, sounds like you'll be out of the country for work in the first half of 2022 so that'll be some forced space. Use the time well! Work out, do activities, meet people...enjoy life!
The goal for reconciliation is simple. Make the changes you need to make and go in the exact opposite direction. She needs to wonder where you are at and what you are doing.
I think you still have a chance but you I think you are going to need to divorce her and move on first. The real question is will you want her back after going through all this heartbreak and pain?
Mach40,
I think what SteveLW and LH19 are saying is you're being W's emotional crutch by being there for her at the Holidays after her mom passed even though she separated from you and is heading towards a divorce. If you want to spend Thanksgiving and Christmas there because gives you more kid/grandkid time it probably won't be the make or break difference in a long term recon but not sure if helps your detachment or moving on. The frequent calls, lunches, and Holidays allow her to keep you on the hook.
Anyway, sounds like you'll be out of the country for work in the first half of 2022 so that'll be some forced space. Use the time well! Work out, do activities, meet people...enjoy life!
BL, exactly. M40, it isn't as if your sitch is brand new. At this stage you should be looking to do things that moves your life forward. What I am still detecting here is that there are expectations that are still guiding your actions. "Maybe if I attend holidays with her....." "Maybe if I emotionally support her through a difficult time....."
The giveaway to me was this:
As far as having a another person with her or me at any of these events, its not going to happen as neither one of us is ready to tackle that..
She is working 6 to 7 days a week, and doesnt need the added stress of emotional commitments right now. This is not really relevant, just her talking to me about it.
So if she had said she was bringing someone, would your answer have been different? Not that I blame you if it would be, but it shows that you are not emotionally detached. This is why the advice was to separate the holidays. That way if she was bringing someone....or she wasn't, no biggie. You had your own plans with your kids. "You do Thanksgiving with them on Thursday, I will on Friday. At Christmas you have them Christmas Eve, then I have them Christmas Eve night and Christmas morning." Or vice-versa. I know your kids are older and the Eve night/Christmas morning thing may not apply in your sitch, but you get the gest. Feeling her out to see if she was bringing someone wasn't the right approach for moving forward with your life.
And then the second sentence is just her talking. It has no basis in fact. You are the last person she is going to tell "And I am actively dating OP." So this falls into the category of "believe nothing she says". And that principle still applies even when you desperately want to believe it. In fact, it applies even more so in that case.
M40, this is why I said it is your sitch, you can make the choices you want. But I cannot respond in this forum positively when someone is claiming that they are moving forward with their life when their decisions are saying otherwise. It seems you through in the "I will file for D" comment in an effort to convince us, and maybe even yourself, that the moving forward with your life was true. I hope this isn't too harsh, it isn't meant to be. Just meant to be an honest assessment.
I agree with BL, the forced space will be good for you. I highly highly highly encourage you to go dark and follow the LRT after the holidays and through your away time.
Mach,
I am confused by your situation. let me know if I have anything wrong. You have been living apart for 3 years but jut recently filed for a "divorce lite" I'm kind of wondering what you are hoping to achieve that hasn't been achieved in the last 3 years?
I mean I see almost nothing that says your W is turning around and I think she's been pretty upfront with you about where the R is. (Obviously, you know her and what she says on a day to day basis better than us) I know it totally [censored] to hear and people say don't believe her when she says stuff, but I think she's kinda told you where you stand.
Thanksgivng was good. Spent 99% of the time with my daughters and grand kids..
Very little time with my wife. But it was cordial, just a simple hey. No drama, no hopium..
Thanksgivng was good. Spent 99% of the time with my daughters and grand kids..
Very little time with my wife. But it was cordial, just a simple hey. No drama, no hopium..
So you could have done this on your own. This post is actually an argument against a joint Thanksgiving..............
Thanksgivng was good. Spent 99% of the time with my daughters and grand kids..
Very little time with my wife. But it was cordial, just a simple hey. No drama, no hopium..
So you could have done this on your own. This post is actually an argument against a joint Thanksgiving..............
Thnx for the positive post, seriously though.. Baby steps. My FIL asked me to go too.. We just lost his wife a few months ago, and it was important to be there for him too..
M,
I think you did the right thing if you were doing it for the right reasons with zero expectations. Only you know the answer to that.
Get through Christmas and you can revisit next year.
Please start a new thread and link both threads together.
Thanksgivng was good. Spent 99% of the time with my daughters and grand kids..
Very little time with my wife. But it was cordial, just a simple hey. No drama, no hopium..
So you could have done this on your own. This post is actually an argument against a joint Thanksgiving..............
Thnx for the positive post, seriously though.. Baby steps. My FIL asked me to go too.. We just lost his wife a few months ago, and it was important to be there for him too..
M40, I hope you realize I am just giving you my perspective. My goal isn't for LBSs to be there for soon-to-be ex-inlaws. It is to try to help the LBS move forward as quickly and healthily as possible. You may have very good reasons for the decision you made. You know your situation why better than I do. I wasn't trying to be negative, I was trying to get you to see that you could have spent time with the kids and grandkids without doing the joint Thanksgiving. That's all.
M40, I hope you had a great time (sounds like you did). Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
New Thread:
Legally separated, in our homes....Part 3