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Posted By: Mach40 Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/05/21 05:52 PM
Its been a long time since I posted here.. So, here it goes.
We legally signed our paperwork to technically be separated in South Carolina.
Lawyers say its one step closer to divorce, and we already met the one year requirement to where it can be filed immediately.
Here is my problem. My wife is a super good person, but I ruined the marriage. She loves peace and harmony and doesnt want to hurt anyones feelings. She has been numb to me for some time, and is pretty depressed. Not seeking therapy, just works her butt off to avoid dealing with it.
Well, she left me a few years ago, and eventually bought a home, has all the animals and kids living with her.. She is effectively on her own except health insurance as I provide that through my retirement.
With her being gone, I was under the impression she was trying to find herself to see if she wanted to come back and reconcile. We do all holidays, birthdays etc together as if we are still family.
Well, I found out that she has started the dating pool, and hates it according to her and family.. So, everyone apparently knew and assumed I did too.
I emotionally cant see myself accepting this, and now I dont want to be around her any more..
I havent dated at all since she left..
I know this may seem common, but if the group here can decipher and help guide me I would appreciate it.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 12:01 AM
Mach40,

Welcome back. Just read through your threads.

I'm a bit confused...can you clarify some details?

1) What month & year was the first separation? (after 3 years of moving in and out of the house)
2) What month & year did she buy a new house?
3) What month & year was the separation maintenance agreement / divorce lite filed in family court?
4) How old are you, your wife, your kids & stepkids, and grandkids?
5) Are you paying any spousal maintenance or child support?
6) What is the custody agreement?

Originally Posted by Mach40
With her being gone, I was under the impression she was trying to find herself to see if she wanted to come back and reconcile.
After 3 years of back and forth and another year and a half under a separation agreement you thought she was thinking of coming back and reconciling? Did she ever give you any indication to believe she wanted to?

Originally Posted by Mach40
We do all holidays, birthdays etc together as if we are still family.
How do you feel about that?

Originally Posted by Mach40
Well, I found out that she has started the dating pool, and hates it according to her and family.. So, everyone apparently knew and assumed I did too.
Confused here. Everything assumed you knew she was dating or you knew she hates it?

Originally Posted by Mach40
I emotionally cant see myself accepting this,
Accepting what? Her dating?

Originally Posted by Mach40
and now I dont want to be around her any more..
Doesn't sound like you have any need to be around her.

Originally Posted by Mach40
I havent dated at all since she left..
Why is that? Moral thing (I refused to before D was finalized), just not interested in it personally, thinking it might help her come back if you didn't?

Can you tell us what you're hoping will happen? What result you'd like?
Posted By: Mach40 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 12:26 AM
[/b]
Originally Posted by BL42
Mach40,

Welcome back. Just read through your threads.

I'm a bit confused...can you clarify some details?

1) What month & year was the first separation? (after 3 years of moving in and out of the house)
[b]Official Date is Sept 2019, as we filed the year to be up at Sept 2020.
2) What month & year did she buy a new house? June 2020
3) What month & year was the separation maintenance agreement / divorce lite filed in family court? Finalized in court January 2021
4) How old are you, your wife, your kids & stepkids, and grandkids?54/52/30/21
5) Are you paying any spousal maintenance or child support? Zero Support unless divorced ( then 550 for health)
6) What is the custody agreement? None, kids over 18

Originally Posted by Mach40
With her being gone, I was under the impression she was trying to find herself to see if she wanted to come back and reconcile.
After 3 years of back and forth and another year and a half under a separation agreement you thought she was thinking of coming back and reconciling? Did she ever give you any indication to believe she wanted to?
[b]She did, but in her subtle ways. She is too darn polite to tell me to go away and apparently didnt want to hurt my feelings. Her Mother just passed and one thing her Mother told her was, look out for her feelings first and dont worry about mine..
.[/b]
Originally Posted by Mach40
We do all holidays, birthdays etc together as if we are still family.
How do you feel about that? I sometimes feel like its normal. This Thanksgiving and Christmas wont, due to her Mom passing. But, I am starting to think if she were to be dating someone, it will have to change to bring him into the picture. If she were to get serious. I wont do well with that.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Well, I found out that she has started the dating pool, and hates it according to her and family.. So, everyone apparently knew and assumed I did too.
Confused here. Everything assumed you knew she was dating or you knew she hates it?
She has stated she hates it..
Apparently the Kids and her Mother knew. Mom just passed away 3 weeks ago. No one told me. Youngest daughter knew, but keeps secrets, out of respect for everyone. Oldest is too busy with 3 kids, but wont get involved. She is hands off.


Originally Posted by Mach40
I emotionally cant see myself accepting this,
Accepting what? Her dating? I cant accept her dating someone else, hurts me pretty bad.. After knowing her for 30 years, and married since 2004, its hard to just stop loving her, especially when I was at fault..

Originally Posted by Mach40
and now I dont want to be around her any more..
Doesn't sound like you have any need to be around her. Interesting. Why do you say that?

Originally Posted by Mach40
I havent dated at all since she left..
Why is that? Moral thing (I refused to before D was finalized), just not interested in it personally, thinking it might help her come back if you didn't? I was not ready to date, and it would not have been fair to the other person as my mind wouldnt be focused on her. Thats why its hard to understand why she is dating.. She has said she is not ready, but said, its part of the process.. Not sure of the process she speaks of... maybe to figure out if there is something better out there? I am plan B? Not sure.

Can you tell us what you're hoping will happen? What result you'd like?
I was hoping to reconcile.. We get along great now that everything has been talked about. I think now she is just not wanting to ever repeat it again, or want it to repeat again. She has said, if she were to get back with me, she would be vulnerable and worried it would happen again. I cant ensure it wont to her, other than through actually doing it.. I am not the same person as before. Counseling, professional has brought to light my issues, and I am good with myself. I am aware of where I failed and such..Short version of course.
[b][/b]
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 02:37 AM
Mach40,

Originally Posted by BL42
Did she ever give you any indication to believe she wanted to?
Originally Posted by Mach40
She did, but in her subtle ways. She is too darn polite to tell me to go away and apparently didnt want to hurt my feelings. Her Mother just passed and one thing her Mother told her was, look out for her feelings first and dont worry about mine...
How recently have the two of you had a relationship / reconciliation talk?

Originally Posted by Mach40
We do all holidays, birthdays etc together as if we are still family.
Originally Posted by BL42
How do you feel about that?
Originally Posted by Mach40
I sometimes feel like its normal. This Thanksgiving and Christmas wont, due to her Mom passing. But, I am starting to think if she were to be dating someone, it will have to change to bring him into the picture. If she were to get serious. I wont do well with that.
Yes, someone on the dating front could change the Holiday arrangements but it also sounds like that may be a ways away if there's no one serious and she's not loving the dating scene.

Originally Posted by Mach40
I cant accept her dating someone else, hurts me pretty bad.. After knowing her for 30 years, and married since 2004, its hard to just stop loving her, especially when I was at fault..
I can certainly understand the hurt there. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Mach40
and now I dont want to be around her any more..
Originally Posted by BL42
Doesn't sound like you have any need to be around her.
Originally Posted by Mach40
Interesting. Why do you say that?
Just meant to say if you don't want to be around her you have the choice not to be. You're living apart with no young children. If you choose to, you could probably never see her again (or at least rarely), but sounds like you're hurting at the possibility of her dating and would like to be around her along with a reconciliation.

Originally Posted by Mach40
I was not ready to date, and it would not have been fair to the other person as my mind wouldnt be focused on her.
That's a pretty reasonable / mature stance. I respect that.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Thats why its hard to understand why she is dating.. She has said she is not ready, but said, its part of the process.. Not sure of the process she speaks of... maybe to figure out if there is something better out there? I am plan B? Not sure.
You two have had problems and have been separated / nearly divorced for quite awhile now. I imagine she's interested to see what's out there. Have you ever discussed with her why she hasn't filed the separation agreement as a formal / legal divorce?

Originally Posted by Mach40
I was hoping to reconcile.. We get along great now that everything has been talked about. I think now she is just not wanting to ever repeat it again, or want it to repeat again. She has said, if she were to get back with me, she would be vulnerable and worried it would happen again. I cant ensure it wont to her, other than through actually doing it.. I am not the same person as before. Counseling, professional has brought to light my issues, and I am good with myself. I am aware of where I failed and such..Short version of course.
Have you had a relationship talk recently? I know those tend to be frown on around here but it seems like your situation is a bit different from many of the newcomer threads with a clear affair and running off with another person. You've had time apart, you've spent Holidays together for awhile (I'm assuming amicably), neither of you are rushing the D, if what you heard is right she's frustrated with the dating world and has given you hint of wanting to reconcile. I wonder if broaching the subject to see where she stands wouldn't be warranted in this case. I'm no expert though, who knows...others may disagree.
Posted By: Mach40 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by BL42
Mach40,

Originally Posted by BL42
Did she ever give you any indication to believe she wanted to?
Originally Posted by Mach40
She did, but in her subtle ways. She is too darn polite to tell me to go away and apparently didnt want to hurt my feelings. Her Mother just passed and one thing her Mother told her was, look out for her feelings first and dont worry about mine...
How recently have the two of you had a relationship / reconciliation talk? Its been over 6 months, but it was more her talking about how if she did, she didnt want it to go back to what it was.. Chase her, get her, then relax and go back to complacency. I get that. It will have to be a continuous working effort on both our parts.

Originally Posted by Mach40
We do all holidays, birthdays etc together as if we are still family.
Originally Posted by BL42
How do you feel about that?
Originally Posted by Mach40
I sometimes feel like its normal. This Thanksgiving and Christmas wont, due to her Mom passing. But, I am starting to think if she were to be dating someone, it will have to change to bring him into the picture. If she were to get serious. I wont do well with that.
Yes, someone on the dating front could change the Holiday arrangements but it also sounds like that may be a ways away if there's no one serious and she's not loving the dating scene.

Originally Posted by Mach40
I cant accept her dating someone else, hurts me pretty bad.. After knowing her for 30 years, and married since 2004, its hard to just stop loving her, especially when I was at fault..
I can certainly understand the hurt there. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Mach40
and now I dont want to be around her any more..
Originally Posted by BL42
Doesn't sound like you have any need to be around her.
Originally Posted by Mach40
Interesting. Why do you say that?
Just meant to say if you don't want to be around her you have the choice not to be. You're living apart with no young children. If you choose to, you could probably never see her again (or at least rarely), but sounds like you're hurting at the possibility of her dating and would like to be around her along with a reconciliation. It would be easy to disappear. She usually calls about every 4 to 5 days, if I havent in the time frame, just to check in and say Hey

Originally Posted by Mach40
I was not ready to date, and it would not have been fair to the other person as my mind wouldnt be focused on her.
That's a pretty reasonable / mature stance. I respect that.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Thats why its hard to understand why she is dating.. She has said she is not ready, but said, its part of the process.. Not sure of the process she speaks of... maybe to figure out if there is something better out there? I am plan B? Not sure.
You two have had problems and have been separated / nearly divorced for quite awhile now. I imagine she's interested to see what's out there. Have you ever discussed with her why she hasn't filed the separation agreement as a formal / legal divorce?
She says filing for divorce would make it too final..

Originally Posted by Mach40
I was hoping to reconcile.. We get along great now that everything has been talked about. I think now she is just not wanting to ever repeat it again, or want it to repeat again. She has said, if she were to get back with me, she would be vulnerable and worried it would happen again. I cant ensure it wont to her, other than through actually doing it.. I am not the same person as before. Counseling, professional has brought to light my issues, and I am good with myself. I am aware of where I failed and such..Short version of course.
Have you had a relationship talk recently? I know those tend to be frown on around here but it seems like your situation is a bit different from many of the newcomer threads with a clear affair and running off with another person. You've had time apart, you've spent Holidays together for awhile (I'm assuming amicably), neither of you are rushing the D, if what you heard is right she's frustrated with the dating world and has given you hint of wanting to reconcile. I wonder if broaching the subject to see where she stands wouldn't be warranted in this case. I'm no expert though, who knows...others may disagree.
We have been amicable during B days and all holidays. My lawyer was making comments, that in her 17 years of doing this, she has never had a couple be this amicable. She spoke with the wifes lawyer and said she was very easy to work with too. Lawyer felt like we werent going to get divorced. It was a comforting yet strange thing for her to say that.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 11:33 AM
M,

I think you should ask to move your thread back to newcomers and you will get more responses.

It can take a really long time for resentment to subside, especially when you remain in contact with one another.

Right now you are in a tough spot because you are clearly plan B right now. Luckily for you dating at middle age is a nightmare for most women.

Right now you can ride it out and see if she gives up on dating and gives you another chance or you can push the envelope and in a loving way you can basically tell her she is either in or out. If you have that conversation and she says she out you have to walk and never look back.

Either way you need to be less available. She needs to feel that she may lose you. Until that happens she is just going to keep doing her own thing until eventually she meets a decent guy.

If you have truly changed and you know your value you will not wait around forever so the clock is ticking and you need to figure out what you are going to do moving forward.
Posted By: Mach40 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/06/21 11:46 AM
Thank you LH19. Great advice. I dont wish ill on her, and I know the market for 50 plus year ladies is hard, due to the men in that category, lots of baggage either way..
Its the mental image of her smiling with and relations with another man that is hard.
She has made comment to the same my way, how it would make her very jealous.. But, that is wronng in using someone to get someone back.
One thing I forgot she did mention is she has noticed a huge change in me for the positive. It really happened when my oldest had her baby, and man that grand baby really melted me. She and I are so close, and I know she sees that as a positive.. Compared to when I was trying to help raise my oldest, she was a handful to say the least. She was a teenager, and my step daughter and hated me.. That caused allot of problems.
Posted By: Mach40 Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 11:54 AM
Hey Everyone, I am attempting to relocate my new thread to this section.
Hopefully it works.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2924390#Post2924390
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
One thing I forgot she did mention is she has noticed a huge change in me for the positive.
Well this is obviously a good sign but talk is cheap my friend. Her actions of being separated and filing for separation paint a different story.

When a woman's heart hardens it takes a really long time to soften if ever. 3 years is a long time.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 12:57 PM
Mach40,

The way you're describing your sitch feels much different than most fresh WS/LBS dynamics on here with the WS in an active affair and LBS in desperation mode. If there's been space & time, she's hesitant about the D, noticing improvements, and making comments about a potential reconciliation...those seem to be good signs.

Originally Posted by LH19
It can take a really long time for resentment to subside, especially when you remain in contact with one another.
If it's been 3 years maybe there's some softening?

Originally Posted by LH19
Right now you can ride it out and see if she gives up on dating and gives you another chance or you can push the envelope and in a loving way you can basically tell her she is either in or out. If you have that conversation and she says she out you have to walk and never look back.

Either way you need to be less available. She needs to feel that she may lose you. Until that happens she is just going to keep doing her own thing until eventually she meets a decent guy.
I agree w/LH. Sounds like she's dipped her toes into the dating world and not liking what she sees...but it doesn't mean she won't find someone at some point so you can't be on the hook forever.

Maybe with the positive signs a discussion with her about how things stand and the D, but be ready to push it forward yourself if she doesn't want to R? There's risk in both. The risk in the former is sh'es comfortable with you playing house on the holidays and having the freedom to explore dating so at some point she finds someone else. The risk in the latter is if she says no are you really ready to move on? If you are, great, but sounds like deep down if you're being honest you'd really rather not.

Originally Posted by LH19
If you have truly changed and you know your value you will not wait around forever so the clock is ticking and you need to figure out what you are going to do moving forward.
How are your self-improvements and GAL going? Tell us about what you're doing to better yourself.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
One thing I forgot she did mention is she has noticed a huge change in me for the positive.
Well this is obviously a good sign but talk is cheap my friend. Her actions of being separated and filing for separation paint a different story.

When a woman's heart hardens it takes a really long time to soften if ever. 3 years is a long time.
To be fair, I filed and she agreed to the maintenance and separation agreement.. She was not pushing it.
A womens heart does take a long time, of which she has told me.. She said it is going to take an awakening of some sort.. She is just numb right now, yet we get along great, were amicable etc. Like family without living together and being physical.
PS, I am not receiving any notifications that this thread is getting posts?
Originally Posted by Mach40
PS, I am not receiving any notifications that this thread is getting posts?
Yeah - we are not getting any notifications about anything on the board - the function seems to be disabled.

We have complained to the administrator but they have not figured it out yet.

Sorry
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
She said it is going to take an awakening of some sort
Like she may lose you forever.

Originally Posted by Mach40
She is just numb right now, yet we get along great, were amicable etc. Like family without living together and being physical.
Man if I had a nickel for every time a LBS thought this was a good thing I could retire and by my own island.

I was watching an episode of "Parenthood" and there was a woman talking to her mother in regards to reconciling with her husband. She said she couldn't see herself getting over what he did. Her mother said "you know what the most important thing about marriage is?" woman said "no" the mother said "forgiveness" without it you are sure to fail.

Some people can't forgive. I am dating a woman right now who has said "when she is done there is no going back". I could see the conviction in her voice and eyes that she means it. You have to figure out if your STBXW can forgive. Since it seems she is not dating anyone and has shown positive signs towards you then a IMO a talk is warranted.

The signs point to that she is stringing you along. The question becomes are you ok with that moving forward?
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
She said it is going to take an awakening of some sort
Like she may lose you forever.

Originally Posted by Mach40
She is just numb right now, yet we get along great, were amicable etc. Like family without living together and being physical.
Man if I had a nickel for every time a LBS thought this was a good thing I could retire and by my own island.

I was watching an episode of "Parenthood" and there was a woman talking to her mother in regards to reconciling with her husband. She said she couldn't see herself getting over what he did. Her mother said "you know what the most important thing about marriage is?" woman said "no" the mother said "forgiveness" without it you are sure to fail.

Some people can't forgive. I am dating a woman right now who has said "when she is done there is no going back". I could see the conviction in her voice and eyes that she means it. You have to figure out if your STBXW can forgive. Since it seems she is not dating anyone and has shown positive signs towards you then a IMO a talk is warranted.

The signs point to that she is stringing you along. The question becomes are you ok with that moving forward?
Forgiveness, on both sides is paramount.
And the statement about how you retire due to thinking it was a god thing, can you go into more detail?
Hi Mach,

I agree you are currently Plan B if any plan at all.

Is online dating hard for women in their early 50s? Probably harder than in their 30s. The women I know are still flooded with messages, even more than us 40s men. In your favor, maybe only 15% of their matches are stable and securely attached, and maybe they only fancy and are fancied back by 20% of those. It requires persistence to find a good partner and not just easy sex.

While the "High Risk, High Reward" plan of breaking off friendly contact with your ex is oft suggested, in your situation, I'll make the rare suggestion to consider what YOU stand to lose. You see your kids every Thanksgiving and Christmas, and they see both their parents--without choosing a home, without attending two events. You have a friend you talk to every 4-5 days who's known you for 30yrs. Most who discard these birds in the hand do not win that bird in the bush.

So be judicious about what you're willing to give up. Maybe you don't want to give up the upcoming shared holidays with your kids. Big holidays are only a half-dozen days per year. Even if 3 years from now it may include her BF, and 5 years from now it may include your GF. Maybe you are okay with giving up chatting every 4-5 days. Maybe that would even help to detach and find your own way.

I have a relationship with my XW that I value. You do you.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 02:49 PM
When a WS gets what they want they are typically amicable with the LBS even to the point of being friends and doing things with the family. The LBS reads this as a sign that she/he is softening and rethinking things. Then out of the blue OM/OW comes into the picture and the LBS in dumfounded.

I was on the beach one day talking to one of my BF wife. She said doesn't want to be married to or have sex with my friend anymore but she would love to be friends with him.

Look Mach you are in a tough spot. You take responsibility for your separation which is a good thing. You claim to be a changed man and have showed her your changes for three years. You have to decide when you feel you did all you can do. I am just not a big proponent of the LBS waiting around forever. Life is way too short. Only you how long to wait. I am just trying to open your eyes to the fact that if she is dating then you are not on her radar right now.
Mach, hey man. Sorry you had to find this out. I am assuming that you were holding out hope that she would eventually want to piece and R? And the dating thing is ruining your hope of that? Is that what I am perceiving here?

Is her going on dates with other guys a deal-breaker? Or are you just reacting to the news? My advice would be to take some time. There is no hurry here. I know it hurts to find out that she wasn't in the same place as you, but that doesn't mean you have to move to D right now. Are you in IC? If not I highly encourage it.

If her going on dates with other guys is a deal-breaker, then by all means it is within your right to pull the plug and move forward with your own life. But again, this doesn't have to be overnight. You didn't get to this point in your MR overnight, she didn't start dating overnight, and there is no reason that you have to move to D overnight either. Take the time. Mull on it. Talk to your IC.

Mach40, how has GAL been going? Has this "doing things as a family" stunted your detachment? I see you have made a lot of self-improvements, that is awesome! I hope those were for you and not for her or to try to save the marriage.

Regardless of what happens, if you continue to do the work you are going to be awesome in the future. One of the things that struck me is how long you've been waiting. How long are you willing to wait for her? Anothe 3? 5? 10 years? Life is short. I think you've given her plenty of time to make up her mind. I think it would be a good move for Mach40 to say "I am taking control of my life back into my own hands!" and to start moving forward with your own life. If she decides to come along for the ride, fine. If not, fine. But Mach40 is moving on up!
Not on her radar and plan B.. Sounds correct. I know she will never admit it. But, if she truly had no intention of getting back together with me, keeping me in her reach is not a nice thing to do.
I am sure its quite common though..
She needs to be upfront, explain her intentions, if they are foreseeable future, and then let me decide.
She may just not have any physical or mental attraction, but is sacrificing keeping me around for the kids and grand kids.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Is online dating hard for women in their early 50s? Probably harder than in their 30s. The women I know are still flooded with messages, even more than us 40s men. In your favor, maybe only 15% of their matches are stable and securely attached, and maybe they only fancy and are fancied back by 20% of those. It requires persistence to find a good partner and not just easy sex.
I hope this information was helpful to you Mach.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
While the "High Risk, High Reward" plan of breaking off friendly contact with your ex is oft suggested, in your situation, I'll make the rare suggestion to consider what YOU stand to lose. You see your kids every Thanksgiving and Christmas, and they see both their parents--without choosing a home, without attending two events. You have a friend you talk to every 4-5 days who's known you for 30yrs.

So to translate CWs is asking are you ok with the friend zone?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Most who discard these birds in the hand do not win that bird in the bush.
Huh?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
So be judicious about what you're willing to give up. Maybe you don't want to give up the upcoming shared holidays with your kids. Big holidays are only a half-dozen days per year. Even if 3 years from now it may include her BF, and 5 years from now it may include your GF. Maybe you are okay with giving up chatting every 4-5 days. Maybe that would even help to detach and find your own way.
I don't know Mach how does dinner with the BF sound to you?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I have a relationship with my XW that I value. You do you.
CW is a WAS and just now has a relationship with his spouse after 10 years. You can revisit this friendship in 7 years.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Not on her radar and plan B.. Sounds correct. I know she will never admit it. But, if she truly had no intention of getting back together with me, keeping me in her reach is not a nice thing to do.
How is she keeping you in her reach?
Originally Posted by Mach40
I am sure its quite common though..
Originally Posted by Mach40
She needs to be upfront, explain her intentions, if they are foreseeable future, and then let me decide.
Actually she doesn't have to do anything. You don't control her.
Originally Posted by Mach40
She may just not have any physical or mental attraction, but is sacrificing keeping me around for the kids and grand kids.
What do you mean keeping you around?
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
if she truly had no intention of getting back together with me, keeping me in her reach is not a nice thing to do.
It may not be "nice", but if that really is her mindset and you think about it logically it could be very much in her interests to do so. Why discard the comfort of Plan B before Plan A is in place, especially if Plan B is willing to play along?

Originally Posted by Mach40
She needs to be upfront, explain her intentions, if they are foreseeable future, and then let me decide.
Originally Posted by LH19
Actually she doesn't have to do anything. You don't control her.
^Right. She doesn't NEED to do anything. In fact, if the current situation is to her liking she has no motivation to do so. She can do what she wants and you can't control it. However, you can act accordingly and she can not control how you respond.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Is online dating hard for women in their early 50s? Probably harder than in their 30s. The women I know are still flooded with messages, even more than us 40s men. In your favor, maybe only 15% of their matches are stable and securely attached, and maybe they only fancy and are fancied back by 20% of those. It requires persistence to find a good partner and not just easy sex.
I hope this information was helpful to you Mach.
Yes it was helpful. Feel Like I am in Vegas Gambling, lol
Originally Posted by CWarrior
While the "High Risk, High Reward" plan of breaking off friendly contact with your ex is oft suggested, in your situation, I'll make the rare suggestion to consider what YOU stand to lose. You see your kids every Thanksgiving and Christmas, and they see both their parents--without choosing a home, without attending two events. You have a friend you talk to every 4-5 days who's known you for 30yrs.

So to translate CWs is asking are you ok with the friend zone?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Most who discard these birds in the hand do not win that bird in the bush.
Huh?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
So be judicious about what you're willing to give up. Maybe you don't want to give up the upcoming shared holidays with your kids. Big holidays are only a half-dozen days per year. Even if 3 years from now it may include her BF, and 5 years from now it may include your GF. Maybe you are okay with giving up chatting every 4-5 days. Maybe that would even help to detach and find your own way.
I don't know Mach how does dinner with the BF sound to you?
I wont do it,
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I have a relationship with my XW that I value. You do you.
CW is a WAS and just now has a relationship with his spouse after 10 years. You can revisit this friendship in 7 years.
Well, i will be retired then... lol. Kind of depressing how humans are, but when the good is good, its great
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Not on her radar and plan B.. Sounds correct. I know she will never admit it. But, if she truly had no intention of getting back together with me, keeping me in her reach is not a nice thing to do.
How is she keeping you in her reach?
Well, calling me, asking to do Holidays/B Days and sometimes helping with the animals when they get ill ( going to Vet with her to make decisions as they are our pets, at her home) They are family
Originally Posted by Mach40
I am sure its quite common though..
Originally Posted by Mach40
She needs to be upfront, explain her intentions, if they are foreseeable future, and then let me decide.
Actually she doesn't have to do anything. You don't control her.
True, but it would be nice if she just said what needs to be said. She probably knows if she did I would not take it well and isolate from everyone. Men close things off quickly.
Originally Posted by Mach40
She may just not have any physical or mental attraction, but is sacrificing keeping me around for the kids and grand kids.
What do you mean keeping you around?
She knows that I am very important to the kids and grand kids.. We all get along great. She may be keeping the peace, friendship going , which is sacrificing her wanting to be free 100% of me.
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Mach40
if she truly had no intention of getting back together with me, keeping me in her reach is not a nice thing to do.
It may not be "nice", but if that really is her mindset and you think about it logically it could be very much in her interests to do so. Why discard the comfort of Plan B before Plan A is in place, especially if Plan B is willing to play along?
Damn that hurts. Reality it is..

Originally Posted by Mach40
She needs to be upfront, explain her intentions, if they are foreseeable future, and then let me decide.
Originally Posted by LH19
Actually she doesn't have to do anything. You don't control her.
^Right. She doesn't NEED to do anything. In fact, if the current situation is to her liking she has no motivation to do so. She can do what she wants and you can't control it. However, you can act accordingly and she can not control how you respond.
I could go get a divorce, and that would set many wheels in motion...
Eventually I may have to do that, to be free myself. I am still attached to her in many ways, more so than when we were married. More focused. I was getting this way before she left.. I was really starting to see her and care/love her more..
So, I have to do a weigh and close on this.
What I am seeing through this thread is.
Stay back, keep 4 to 5 day conversations, dont be too available, dont divorce, detach basically not go dark..
I think the girls will keep in contact with me and continue to see me. They are grown up, working and raising family. I am very supportive of all of that. Some of it financial, but they are my kids and grand kids..
I will re read this thread over and over. Sometimes I miss the true meaning of things.
Being a deployed out to sea Sailor ( SUbmarine guy), I am used to being out of sight out of mind for many months.. I am good with patience.
I will be traveling to Italy in a couple weeks. Very much looking forward to that. Problem I have is, I have a tendency to buy for everyone, even wife.. I may need to scale that down big time.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 04:31 PM
Who is telling you to to keep the 4-5 day conversations?
Originally Posted by LH19
Who is telling you to to keep the 4-5 day conversations?
No one, it was a time frame I talk to her. It was a comment early on that you would talk to a friend every four or five days for some time. Thats all, and I took it as a positive, as I would still talk to her, in that sense.
Originally Posted by LH19
CW is a WAS and just now has a relationship with his spouse after 10 years.
Trigger warning -- LH often brings up I once wore a WAS hat (I've left and been left). My son was hospitalized as a result of my XW. For me, that was an exit condition. For some, "Til Death Do Us Part" has no exceptions. There are a wide range of people on this board.

Originally Posted by LH19
I don't know Mach how does dinner with the BF sound to you? You can revisit this friendship in 7 years.
Mach can also revisit "dinner with BF" if and when it actually comes up. His wife is currently offering holiday dinners with just her, him, and the kids. There is only a small chance discarding (or preserving) the routine wins her back. A key question is how important is it to him and his kids? It's been years. Take the time to think through what's working for you and what's not. It's obvious you probably want to achieve more detachment than you have now given you've been waiting for years and she's finally dating.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Who is telling you to to keep the 4-5 day conversations?
No one, it was a time frame I talk to her. It was a comment early on that you would talk to a friend every four or five days for some time. Thats all, and I took it as a positive, as I would still talk to her, in that sense.
So again the 4-5 day conversations are fine as long as you keep them up when she gets a BF. If not then these convos are purely manipulation.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Who is telling you to to keep the 4-5 day conversations?
No one, it was a time frame I talk to her. It was a comment early on that you would talk to a friend every four or five days for some time. Thats all, and I took it as a positive, as I would still talk to her, in that sense.
So again the 4-5 day conversations are fine as long as you keep them up when she gets a BF. If not then these convos are purely manipulation.
I rarely initiate these conversations. So, are you saying she is being manipulative?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by LH19
CW is a WAS and just now has a relationship with his spouse after 10 years.
Trigger warning -- LH often brings up I once wore a WAS hat (I've left and been left). My son was hospitalized as a result of my XW. For me, that was an exit condition. For some, "Til Death Do Us Part" has no exceptions. There are a wide range of people on this board.

Originally Posted by LH19
I don't know Mach how does dinner with the BF sound to you? You can revisit this friendship in 7 years.
Mach can also revisit "dinner with BF" if and when it actually comes up. His wife is currently offering holiday dinners with just her, him, and the kids. There is only a small chance discarding (or preserving) the routine wins her back. A key question is how important is it to him and his kids? It's been years. Take the time to think through what's working for you and what's not. It's obvious you probably want to achieve more detachment than you have now given you've been waiting for years and she's finally dating.
I am a very patient person, but slow to "understand" what really is going on, I will admit.
She is very calculated, intelligent person.. But she was mentally hurt by me.
If it is obvious I want more detachment, how did you come to that conclusion?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 05:51 PM
Yes. But also if you discontinue these talks when she gets a BF.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yes. But also if you discontinue these talks when she gets a BF.
When she gets a BF, I will shut down. The kids and I will keep in communication, but I will not talk anymore. Too painful.. Is that being manipulative on my part then?
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Is online dating hard for women in their early 50s? Probably harder than in their 30s. The women I know are still flooded with messages, even more than us 40s men. In your favor, maybe only 15% of their matches are stable and securely attached, and maybe they only fancy and are fancied back by 20% of those. It requires persistence to find a good partner and not just easy sex.
I hope this information was helpful to you Mach.
One other thing, not to get my hopes up high, is my wife works 6 to 7 days a week. She is a Realtor, and work has always taken her mind off relationships etc. Just work, work work.. When she is not working, which is rare, she is depressed...
She needs, in my opinion, help to get over lifes depression she is carrying. Its more than me, as her mom just passed a few weeks ago. (Her Best Friend)
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Yes. But also if you discontinue these talks when she gets a BF.
When she gets a BF, I will shut down. The kids and I will keep in communication, but I will not talk anymore. Too painful.. Is that being manipulative on my part then?
Manipulation is defined as any attempt to sway someone's emotions to get them to act or feel a certain way. These talks are based on you trying to win her back. If she gets a BF and you shut down then that's being manipulative.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Is online dating hard for women in their early 50s? Probably harder than in their 30s. The women I know are still flooded with messages, even more than us 40s men. In your favor, maybe only 15% of their matches are stable and securely attached, and maybe they only fancy and are fancied back by 20% of those. It requires persistence to find a good partner and not just easy sex.
I hope this information was helpful to you Mach.
One other thing, not to get my hopes up high, is my wife works 6 to 7 days a week. She is a Realtor, and work has always taken her mind off relationships etc. Just work, work work.. When she is not working, which is rare, she is depressed...
She needs, in my opinion, help to get over lifes depression she is carrying. Its more than me, as her mom just passed a few weeks ago. (Her Best Friend)
I am not following. How is you W being depressed getting you hopes up?
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Yes. But also if you discontinue these talks when she gets a BF.
When she gets a BF, I will shut down. The kids and I will keep in communication, but I will not talk anymore. Too painful.. Is that being manipulative on my part then?
Manipulation is defined as any attempt to sway someone's emotions to get them to act or feel a certain way. These talks are based on you trying to win her back. If she gets a BF and you shut down then that's being manipulative.
Fair enough
I guess it all comes down to her, and doing what she wants. I can wait, or not..
Decisions take time..
Advice is always welcome, thats why I am back.
Not to be manipulative, but isnt the idea of getting someone to like you, love you kind of manipulative? Maybe I guess more so in the courting phase..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Not to be manipulative, but isn't the idea of getting someone to like you, love you kind of manipulative?
Well that depends. If you are not being yourself and doing and saying things that are not the real you then that's manipulative. If you are being yourself then no that's not manipulation.

I can tell you this Mach three years is a long time. I have been divorced just over three years and my exw has shown zero indication she made a mistake. I can guarantee you her life like your Ws is not any better divorced. Sometimes when they are done they are done and things are really hard to undo. The good thing is I moved on a couple years ago and you should consider it too. Life is too short my friend to try to keep someone in your life who doesn't want to be there.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 06:32 PM
Mach40,

Here's the thing...

It's very possible, perhaps probable, your W is perfectly happy with the way things stand, meaning having birthdays and holidays with the family and enjoying some companionship/friend talks every 4-5 days but not living together or having physical intimacy and being able to explore other options. On this board it's often referred to as "cake eating" in that the spouse leaving gets to have their cake (family, holidays, friendship) and eat it too (dating others). IF she feels this way, she has no incentive or motivation to change anything. It's working for her.

Not to put words in their mouths, but...

What LH19 is saying is that in order to change that dynamic and have potential for an R/intimate relationship it's likely that your W has to see what she's losing and decide she doesn't want to. In other words, there may be no impetus for her to come back if she doesn't feel she's losing you.

What CWarrior is saying that IF you put her to a decision, you're risking the bird in the hand (family birthdays /Holidays, friendship...etc.) for two in the bush (family holidays PLUS intimate relationship) that if you risk that it might be more likely you'll lose the former than gain the latter.

Does that make sense?

Based on what I've read, your dynamic is different than the typical story we see her of WS/WAS with an active affair and LBS depurate to bring them back so you MAY have a better chance than most here to have a discussion and get her back...but there are no guarantees. It is a risk. And you have to be the one to decide whether to continue the status que (and risk she doesn't find someone else and eventually comes back) or take bond action (ask her to R and risk her declining and you walking way). Either way you risk something. Unfortunately it's not a math equation and there is no exact formula with a "correct" answer.

Originally Posted by Mach40
I am still attached to her in many ways, more so than when we were married.
The point of detachment and self-differentiation is to get to a place where you're happy and having a great life whether you're with her or not. You should be working towards those goals because A) it's healthy, B) it will help you emotionally if a D goes through or she starts dating another man, and C) it makes you more attractive to W or other women (if you decide to date). Work on yourself and your GAL so you're happy with your life regardless of whether W decides to rejoin it or not. If she does come back, great, if she doesn't you're happy anyway.
Well put, BL42.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/06/21 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Well put, BL42.
I second it BL42
Thnx BL42. Very well written. I have allot to think about and allot to digest.
I have to prioritize myself, kids then her.
Everyones advice is well taken.
If there is a what would you do, can you say it too?.
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Mach40
I am still attached to her in many ways, more so than when we were married.
The point of detachment and self-differentiation is to get to a place where you're happy and having a great life whether you're with her or not. You should be working towards those goals because A) it's healthy, B) it will help you emotionally if a D goes through or she starts dating another man, and C) it makes you more attractive to W or other women (if you decide to date). Work on yourself and your GAL so you're happy with your life regardless of whether W decides to rejoin it or not. If she does come back, great, if she doesn't you're happy anyway.

This. Wise words here by BL!
She needs to know I am not waiting, am GAL, and whatever she does is her decision, not to be influenced by me..
I need to back off on helping her out in anyway, unless it directly involves the kids.
When I talk to her, dont act like I need her, dont rehash the past etc etc. So much good advice to take in.
I am going to write a list of things to do and not to do..
Its a delicate situation to me.
On a side note: I just went out and had my early dinner, working on losing weight with 2 meals a day vice 3, and I was very surprised how much I am missing out in a simple restaurant.. Women are flirtatious, and it felt good conversing..
I eat in at home allot, especially due to high cost of living lately, so this was nice. Italy will be a whole new chapter, looking forward to it.
Originally Posted by LH19
[quote=Mach40] I was watching an episode of "Parenthood" and there was a woman talking to her mother in regards to reconciling with her husband. She said she couldn't see herself getting over what he did. Her mother said "you know what the most important thing about marriage is?" woman said "no" the mother said "forgiveness" without it you are sure to fail.

Some people can't forgive. I am dating a woman right now who has said "when she is done there is no going back". I could see the conviction in her voice and eyes that she means it. You have to figure out if your STBXW can forgive. Since it seems she is not dating anyone and has shown positive signs towards you then a IMO a talk is warranted.

Im curious LH, where do you stand on forgiveness? Does the fact that the person you are dating now is seemingly not forgiving bother you?

I’m a very forgiving person, too forgiving I’ve been told. My STBXW is very unforgiving, I find it very unattractive. I wonder if being unforgiving is correlated to being a WAS/WS? Ironically, my STBXW said that I couldn’t just forgive her for some of the sh!tty things she did.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Originally Posted by LH19
[quote=Mach40] I was watching an episode of "Parenthood" and there was a woman talking to her mother in regards to reconciling with her husband. She said she couldn't see herself getting over what he did. Her mother said "you know what the most important thing about marriage is?" woman said "no" the mother said "forgiveness" without it you are sure to fail.

Some people can't forgive. I am dating a woman right now who has said "when she is done there is no going back". I could see the conviction in her voice and eyes that she means it. You have to figure out if your STBXW can forgive. Since it seems she is not dating anyone and has shown positive signs towards you then a IMO a talk is warranted.

Im curious LH, where do you stand on forgiveness? Does the fact that the person you are dating now is seemingly not forgiving bother you?

I’m a very forgiving person, too forgiving I’ve been told. My STBXW is very unforgiving, I find it very unattractive. I wonder if being unforgiving is correlated to being a WAS/WS? Ironically, my STBXW said that I couldn’t just forgive her for some of the sh!tty things she did.

I have a different take on forgiveness then the mantra around here. Right now I do not forgive my exw for what she did to myself, my kids, family and friends. Maybe I will someday. But I’m not angry or bitter. I just need her to be a good mom and stay out of my life. Now if she apologized for what she did especially to my kids I may change my stance.

As for the girl I’m dating, truthfully I don’t know her stance on if she forgives her ex. Just that he cheated and when he did that she was done. No turning back. That I respect and is also my stance moving forward.

Your comments about your stbxw saying you won’t be able to forgive IMO is LBS script because right now she’s not interested in coming back.
Originally Posted by LH19
But I’m not angry or bitter.

Forgiveness or otherwise, I think this should be the goal for all LBS.

Originally Posted by LH19
As for the girl I’m dating, truthfully I don’t know her stance on if she forgives her ex. Just that he cheated and when he did that she was done. No turning back. That I respect and is also my stance moving forward.

Sounds like a good start, good luck with it. Respect is important.

Originally Posted by LH19
Your comments about your stbxw saying you won’t be able to forgive IMO is LBS script because right now she’s not interested in coming back.

Script or whatever, I honestly don't give a sh!t. I know who I am. I've moved on from what she did, I no longer feel angry or bitter. I won't forget it, but like you, happy to keep it strictly business. She's still angry and I just meet it with politeness, cordiality. Seems to be doing the trick, we sort out the necessary things and she doesn't bother me too much besides that.

I was at a picnic on Sunday with my two good mates and their fiancées. We just sat and hung and drank by the harbour for 6 hours and realised what a great time I was having and how I never would have been able to have done that with STBXW. I just felt happy and free. As an aside one of the guys is getting married next year and I can already see the signs in his fiancée that not great things are down the road. I want to sit him down and tell him what I now know but not sure that he'll listen or believe it could happen to him.

Sorry for the hijack Mach, BL really nailed it with his post. You're getting great advice, but in the end only you know what the right choice is for you.
No worries on the hijack.
Great advice indeed.
I also need to pay more atrention to what she says.
I have texts from her when speaks of where she is in her life.
I do honestly feel I am her friend now, plan b, and she is eating cake due to me being there for her, allot.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
I have texts from her when speaks of where she is in her life.
The more details the more we can help.
Originally Posted by Mach40
I do honestly feel I am her friend now, plan b, and she is eating cake due to me being there for her, allot.
There is another area I have been changing my stance on. Early on I think some LBS think they are plan B and ok and actually happy with it. When in reality I think the LBS is more like Plan G at best.
Never the less are you ok with being plan B,C,D etc? How do you become plan A?
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
I have texts from her when speaks of where she is in her life.
The more details the more we can help.
Originally Posted by Mach40
I do honestly feel I am her friend now, plan b, and she is eating cake due to me being there for her, allot.
There is another area I have been changing my stance on. Early on I think some LBS think they are plan B and ok and actually happy with it. When in reality I think the LBS is more like Plan G at best.
Never the less are you ok with being plan B,C,D etc? How do you become plan A?
Being any plan other than a sux, period. But, I have the kids to think about.. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the kids... They will always need me to be a Rock in their life.. I cant show weakness, and I have to be able to support them in lifes hurdles. Not financially, just be there for them..
I can move on without her, my wife, but I dont want it to cause friction with the kids, if that makes sense.
I will gather some texts, and just remember, I think she has moved on much further than me. She is goal oriented, and when she sets her mind on something, its 100%. Work, life etc. Work has been her biggest accomplishment. Being able to be on her own, not dependent on me for much.
Posted By: Mach40 Re: Legally separated, in our homes... - 10/07/21 05:04 PM
Here is a sequence of texts from the other day..
I do get caught up in stuff, so I am not perfect.. Emotions can sometimes get the better of ya.
Everyone once in a while we talk, but its me who initiates us. She is also very good at validating statements. If I say, I am going to a nice resturaunt, she will say, well have a good time.. She is very hands off on anything about me and has only asked a few times if I was seeing anyone. I flat out said no, why? No response.
Anywho... Here is the texts

Here :I'm sorry I have not responded to your last email. I've just been trying to put thought to everything that has occurred. ( I found some items that were suggesting dating while at her house with one of our animals I went to see as he was sick)

Me: Understand. You dont owe me anything.
Just be up front.
What role am I in your life?.
My mind is on overdrive.


Her: I am absent of the ability to feel. With the exception of my mom's passing, I have not had any true emotions in years. I am coasting. I feel like a shell and I feel like I don't even know myself, personally anyway.


Me:I understand. Your Moms passing was/is a huge toll in you emotionally.
I dont want to add anything to your plate.
Since you and I split, and filed, its been rough for me. Sometimes I just want to shut everything down and cut off all ties. But another side says hold on, there may be a chance, same as when you finally were able to go forward with me after Randy.
But dating is going to prolong healing, in my opinion for the both of us.
If you have no feelings, then you have no feelings. Very unfortunate.
I have always wanted to be the one to raise your smile forever. In reality, only you can.
I guess if you need to date others, i will too.



Her: It took me years to recover from Ex to be able to feel and love again. I recovered and was able to feel love again and thats when we started dating. We got married and I honestly felt so much pain but the events of 2012 shut me down again. Ive been unable to feel since 2012. It's been nine years and Im still broken. When I say I have no feelings, I have no feelings for anyone other than the loss of my mom. I am waiting for an awakening again if thats even possible.



My wife and I are both fixers too. We plan and execute stuff real well. She is Type A, always having to do something to validate her life. Career is the biggest, as she just did 16 hrs yesterday on her B Day trying to fix two real estate transactions.. When Idle, she is depressed..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Being any plan other than a sux, period.
True Dat!
Originally Posted by Mach40
But, I have the kids to think about.. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the kids

What exactly are you sacrificing?
Originally Posted by Mach40
They will always need me to be a Rock in their life.. I cant show weakness, and I have to be able to support them in lifes hurdles Not financially, just be there for them...
That will always be no matter what happens.
Originally Posted by Mach40
I can move on without her, my wife, but I dont want it to cause friction with the kids, if that makes sense.
Hasn't your W already moved on?
Originally Posted by Mach40
I will gather some texts, and just remember, I think she has moved on much further than me.
Usually the WW is years ahead of the LBS.
Originally Posted by Mach40
She is goal oriented, and when she sets her mind on something, its 100%. Work, life etc. Work has been her biggest accomplishment. Being able to be on her own, not dependent on me for much.
This is typical for all WW. Nothing in life is 100% other then death and taxes.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Being any plan other than a sux, period.
True Dat!
Originally Posted by Mach40
But, I have the kids to think about.. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the kids

What exactly are you sacrificing? I was thinking that we wouldnt be doing the family things anymore, as the new women would make others uncomfortable, as I would be.
Originally Posted by Mach40
They will always need me to be a Rock in their life.. I cant show weakness, and I have to be able to support them in lifes hurdles Not financially, just be there for them...
That will always be no matter what happens.
Originally Posted by Mach40
I can move on without her, my wife, but I dont want it to cause friction with the kids, if that makes sense.
Hasn't your W already moved on? I guess so, new hair, clothes, home, town etc etc
Originally Posted by Mach40
I will gather some texts, and just remember, I think she has moved on much further than me.
Usually the WW is years ahead of the LBS. I am starting to see that.. Damn am I seeing that.
Originally Posted by Mach40
She is goal oriented, and when she sets her mind on something, its 100%. Work, life etc. Work has been her biggest accomplishment. Being able to be on her own, not dependent on me for much.
This is typical for all WW. Nothing in life is 100% other then death and taxes.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Her: I am absent of the ability to feel. With the exception of my mom's passing, I have not had any true emotions in years. I am coasting. I feel like a shell and I feel like I don't even know myself, personally anyway.
Is she in therapy?

Originally Posted by Mach40
Me:I understand. Your Moms passing was/is a huge toll in you emotionally.
I dont want to add anything to your plate.
You should have ended it here

Originally Posted by Mach40
Since you and I split, and filed, its been rough for me. Sometimes I just want to shut everything down and cut off all ties. But another side says hold on, there may be a chance, same as when you finally were able to go forward with me after Randy.
But dating is going to prolong healing, in my opinion for the both of us.
If you have no feelings, then you have no feelings. Very unfortunate.
I have always wanted to be the one to raise your smile forever. In reality, only you can.
I guess if you need to date others, i will too.
The rest of this is all about how you feel and being passive aggressive. WWs do not take kindly to this is at all.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Her: It took me years to recover from Ex to be able to feel and love again.
I recovered and was able to feel love again and thats when we started dating. We got married and I honestly felt so much pain but the events of 2012 shut me down again. Iv'e been unable to feel since 2012. It's been nine years and Im still broken. When I say I have no feelings, I have no feelings for anyone other than the loss of my mom. I am waiting for an awakening again if that's even possible.
Translation: I am waiting for someone to give me butterflies in my stomach again. Standard WW script for WWs searching for happiness/excitement in another person.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 05:30 PM
How old are your children?
Originally Posted by LH19
How old are your children?
21 and 31
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Her: I am absent of the ability to feel. With the exception of my mom's passing, I have not had any true emotions in years. I am coasting. I feel like a shell and I feel like I don't even know myself, personally anyway.
Is she in therapy?
No. She has said she knows she needs it.. But has only seen a therapist a few times years ago. Work has overtaken her life.
Originally Posted by Mach40
Me:I understand. Your Moms passing was/is a huge toll in you emotionally.
I dont want to add anything to your plate.
You should have ended it here

Originally Posted by Mach40
Since you and I split, and filed, its been rough for me. Sometimes I just want to shut everything down and cut off all ties. But another side says hold on, there may be a chance, same as when you finally were able to go forward with me after Randy.
But dating is going to prolong healing, in my opinion for the both of us.
If you have no feelings, then you have no feelings. Very unfortunate.
I have always wanted to be the one to raise your smile forever. In reality, only you can.
I guess if you need to date others, i will too.
The rest of this is all about how you feel and being passive aggressive. WWs do not take kindly to this is at all. Thx for that, didnt realize I was being passive aggressive.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Her: It took me years to recover from Ex to be able to feel and love again.
I recovered and was able to feel love again and thats when we started dating. We got married and I honestly felt so much pain but the events of 2012 shut me down again. Iv'e been unable to feel since 2012. It's been nine years and Im still broken. When I say I have no feelings, I have no feelings for anyone other than the loss of my mom. I am waiting for an awakening again if that's even possible.
Translation: I am waiting for someone to give me butterflies in my stomach again. Standard WW script for WWs searching for happiness/excitement in another person.
Okay, well, I wish her the best then. I am definitely not going to be that person anytime soon.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 05:43 PM
Mach,

Here's the thing. You didn't break her and you can't fix. Time and space are the only things that turn these things around long-term. She has to learn to miss you for you to have the type of relationship you want with her. You kids are older and they will be fine. It's going to be really hard for you to detach with her as a regular person in your life. You made some mistakes and hopefully you have learned from them moving forward. Don't beat yourself up over it. 9 years is a really long time for her to not have feelings for you. Life is short. Onward and upward!
^ Thnx LH19..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 05:54 PM
Just to be clear I am not telling you to run out and get D. Just time to move forward without her.
Originally Posted by LH19
Just to be clear I am not telling you to run out and get D. Just time to move forward without her.
I understand... D is easy to do and run.. Its not solving anything.. But, the discussion will have to come up.. She wont be the bad person in that at all, thats probably why she hasnt asked to finish it..
Her Mom once said she is a Martyr, always looking to have people feel sorry for her.. That was her Mom.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 06:11 PM
So Mach I would suggest that you only bring it up when you are ready to file. Anything else will be idle threats and passive aggressive.
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Just to be clear I am not telling you to run out and get D. Just time to move forward without her.
I understand... D is easy to do and run.. Its not solving anything.. But, the discussion will have to come up.. She wont be the bad person in that at all, thats probably why she hasnt asked to finish it..
Her Mom once said she is a Martyr, always looking to have people feel sorry for her.. That was her Mom.

Mach, you have been very patient through all of this. Have you ever stopped to consider when enough is enough? Some time in the future you can look back and say "Ok, I gave her plenty of time? I can now move forward with my life, file for D, and have no regrets!"

This is why I encourage LBS to set a drop-dead date. Some date in the future, usually at least 1 year past BD, where the WAS can move ahead to D without looking back.
Originally Posted by Mach40
She wont be the bad person in that at all, thats probably why she hasnt asked to finish it.. Her Mom once said she is a Martyr, always looking to have people feel sorry for her.. That was her Mom.
You seem to believe initiating R talks will achieve something. However, note in your last talk after the productive validation, you couldn't resist dumping your feelings on her, then made passive-aggressive threats. It often feels good to vent, but you could vent in other ways such as exercising or journaling, and those don't decrease your chances of R. It's hard and I know you're trying.

Originally Posted by Mach40
But, the discussion will have to come up..
What would be different about that R talk--would you burden her with your feelings and make another threat--e.g., if she doesn't do X by Y you'll D her? Is that an attractive behavior? What would be fundamentally different about this R talk that would achieve a different result? If and when you're ready to D, you could just serve her with papers.
Originally Posted by LH19
So Mach I would suggest that you only bring it up when you are ready to file. Anything else will be idle threats and passive aggressive.
I never knew I was passive aggressive. This helps allot. I will focus allot of my spare time, just bettering myself on this.
As far as filing, Thnx for the advice. I will, if I go down this path, get a firm date in my schedule, and propose it to her. No threats, nothing, just let her know I am ready and when I will file.
That will give her time to search out the only thing she needs to get, health insurance... That was agreed upon once we divorce.. I would support a certain dollar value.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Just to be clear I am not telling you to run out and get D. Just time to move forward without her.
I understand... D is easy to do and run.. Its not solving anything.. But, the discussion will have to come up.. She wont be the bad person in that at all, thats probably why she hasnt asked to finish it..
Her Mom once said she is a Martyr, always looking to have people feel sorry for her.. That was her Mom.

Mach, you have been very patient through all of this. Have you ever stopped to consider when enough is enough? Some time in the future you can look back and say "Ok, I gave her plenty of time? I can now move forward with my life, file for D, and have no regrets!"

This is why I encourage LBS to set a drop-dead date. Some date in the future, usually at least 1 year past BD, where the WAS can move ahead to D without looking back.
Now that I have been on here, just in the couple days, I am going to have to agree, time has been a while. And maybe I just need to reflect on things and go forward..
The 9 years is not the time she physically left, or stopped being physical. Its really only been about 3 years.. A few months ago, we got a little physical and stopped. Sometimes strange things happen.
But I digress.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Mach40
She wont be the bad person in that at all, thats probably why she hasnt asked to finish it.. Her Mom once said she is a Martyr, always looking to have people feel sorry for her.. That was her Mom.
You seem to believe initiating R talks will achieve something. However, note in your last talk after the productive validation, you couldn't resist dumping your feelings on her, then made passive-aggressive threats. It often feels good to vent, but you could vent in other ways such as exercising or journaling, and those don't decrease your chances of R. It's hard and I know you're trying.

Originally Posted by Mach40
But, the discussion will have to come up..
What would be different about that R talk--would you burden her with your feelings and make another threat--e.g., if she doesn't do X by Y you'll D her? Is that an attractive behavior? What would be fundamentally different about this R talk that would achieve a different result? If and when you're ready to D, you could just serve her with papers.
R talks would have to be initiated by her, as I honestly have no idea how to approach something like that. Especially after her recent texts etc and her dating..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 07:01 PM
Mach,

I would pick a date in your head when you think enough time has passed with no movement. Keep that date to yourself. At said date you can just file or if you want have one more conversation with her that this isn't working for you and you are ready to D if she is not interested in working with you on marriage 2.0 in a calm and not threatening way. If she wants to work on 2.0 great! If not you feel good about trying everything you could to keep your family together and you file.

As for not knowing you were being passive aggressive, me neither. I did it in my marriage because I watched my father do it to my mother all the time and it worked. Something for you to work on moving forward. Anytime you are making threats, trying to change someone's opinion or acting a certain way to get what you want is being passive aggressive.
Originally Posted by LH19
Mach,

I would pick a date in your head when you think enough time has passed with no movement. Keep that date to yourself. At said date you can just file or if you want have one more conversation with her that this isn't working for you and you are ready to D if she is not interested in working with you on marriage 2.0 in a calm and not threatening way. If she wants to work on 2.0 great! If not you feel good about trying everything you could to keep your family together and you file.

As for not knowing you were being passive aggressive, me neither. I did it in my marriage because I watched my father do it to my mother all the time and it worked. Something for you to work on moving forward. Anytime you are making threats, trying to change someone's opinion or acting a certain way to get what you want is being passive aggressive.
Great advice. I think she will be kinda shocked. But, When I am ready, it will be done.
I dont think I will initiate a R or marriage 2.0, because I will digress. I want to ensure I dont do passive aggressive on her..
I will have a plan, date to do it, plan to tell girls and what they need to expect. of course, I will honor my divorce agreement and start a simple allotment for her health care..
Then, go forward..dont turn back.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Mach,

I would pick a date in your head when you think enough time has passed with no movement. Keep that date to yourself. At said date you can just file or if you want have one more conversation with her that this isn't working for you and you are ready to D if she is not interested in working with you on marriage 2.0 in a calm and not threatening way. If she wants to work on 2.0 great! If not you feel good about trying everything you could to keep your family together and you file.

As for not knowing you were being passive aggressive, me neither. I did it in my marriage because I watched my father do it to my mother all the time and it worked. Something for you to work on moving forward. Anytime you are making threats, trying to change someone's opinion or acting a certain way to get what you want is being passive aggressive.
Great advice. I think she will be kinda shocked. But, When I am ready, it will be done.
I dont think I will initiate a R or marriage 2.0, because I will digress. I want to ensure I dont do passive aggressive on her..
I will have a plan, date to do it, plan to tell girls and what they need to expect. of course, I will honor my divorce agreement and start a simple allotment for her health care..
Then, go forward..dont turn back.
Sounds like a plan. I can guarantee you that D is no where as bad as you think.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by LH19
Mach,

I would pick a date in your head when you think enough time has passed with no movement. Keep that date to yourself. At said date you can just file or if you want have one more conversation with her that this isn't working for you and you are ready to D if she is not interested in working with you on marriage 2.0 in a calm and not threatening way. If she wants to work on 2.0 great! If not you feel good about trying everything you could to keep your family together and you file.

As for not knowing you were being passive aggressive, me neither. I did it in my marriage because I watched my father do it to my mother all the time and it worked. Something for you to work on moving forward. Anytime you are making threats, trying to change someone's opinion or acting a certain way to get what you want is being passive aggressive.
Great advice. I think she will be kinda shocked. But, When I am ready, it will be done.
I dont think I will initiate a R or marriage 2.0, because I will digress. I want to ensure I dont do passive aggressive on her..
I will have a plan, date to do it, plan to tell girls and what they need to expect. of course, I will honor my divorce agreement and start a simple allotment for her health care..
Then, go forward..dont turn back.
Sounds like a plan. I can guarantee you that D is no where as bad as you think.
When it comes to it, I think for me it will be a new adventure. For her, well....
The girls will just be the girls, needy as always, in a good way.. Grand kids are just grands....
Now to formulate thoughts, a plan to go forward with many things I learned in this thread..
And to fight the passive aggressiveness
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
And to fight the passive aggressiveness
Not going to lie it is tough at first because you are trying to influence her decision. Once you get to a good place and are happy and healthy alone it becomes easy because you can take or leave anything, anybody or any situation. Then you can just be direct and to the point and walk away from any situation that doesn't work for you.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
And to fight the passive aggressiveness
Not going to lie it is tough at first because you are trying to influence her decision. Once you get to a good place and are happy and healthy alone it becomes easy because you can take or leave anything, anybody or any situation. Then you can just be direct and to the point and walk away from any situation that doesn't work for you.
If I am aware of it, like tying a bow around finger, I can fight it. But I need to find the root cause, and why I do it..
Is not being passive aggressive like being a honey badger?
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
But I need to find the root cause, and why I do it..
Again because you are trying to get what you want and to get what you want you are trying to persuade her with threats and such. See below:

Originally Posted by Mach40
Since you and I split, and filed, its been rough for me. Sometimes I just want to shut everything down and cut off all ties.
If we don't get back together I am going to cut all ties with you
Originally Posted by Mach40
But another side says hold on, there may be a chance, same as when you finally were able to go forward with me after Randy.
Don't you see if we did it before we can do it again
Originally Posted by Mach40
But dating is going to prolong healing, in my opinion for the both of us.
I don't want you to date other people
Originally Posted by Mach40
If you have no feelings, then you have no feelings. Very unfortunate.
You should have feelings for me!
Originally Posted by Mach40
I have always wanted to be the one to raise your smile forever. In reality, only you can.
It's your fault I can't put a smile on your face
Originally Posted by Mach40
I guess if you need to date others, i will too.
If you are going to sleep with someone else so am I
^ Thnx for that. It helps allot.. Damn...
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 08:02 PM
Mach my man don't beat yourself up too bad. Again most people aren't aware they are doing it.
Originally Posted by LH19
Mach my man don't beat yourself up too bad. Again most people aren't aware they are doing it.
Apparently I have been doing it for a very long time, and if I had known it was an issue with our marriage, I could have corrected that too.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
Apparently I have been doing it for a very long time, and if I had known it was an issue with our marriage, I could have corrected that too.
Learn from it and move forward. My friends parents reconciled after 35 years apart. You never know what the future holds.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
Apparently I have been doing it for a very long time, and if I had known it was an issue with our marriage, I could have corrected that too.
Learn from it and move forward. My friends parents reconciled after 35 years apart. You never know what the future holds.
35 years, ouch.. I would be 99.. Probably not going to happen, lol..
True nobody knows what the future holds..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 09:02 PM
Your 64? How old is your W?
Originally Posted by LH19
Your 64? How old is your W?
Mathematical error on my part, I will be 89, as I am 54 and she turned 52 yesterday
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 09:17 PM
Yikes yesterday was my exw birthday. Maybe it’s a trend lol.

You’re a year older then me. You’re young! Lots of good available women out there.
Originally Posted by LH19
Yikes yesterday was my exw birthday. Maybe it’s a trend lol.

You’re a year older then me. You’re young! Lots of good available women out there.
We shall see. First , I need to go to Italy for a few weeks. Maybe get some incentive from lovely ladys out there.
I still have allot of work to do on myself.. This passive aggressive stuff really bothers me..
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/07/21 11:01 PM
Read this thread:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920512&page=9
On a side note, I need to get one topic covered, telling her I want to finalize the divorce, once I am ready and detached etc... Advice.
Holidays and her Mother just passing, no need to put more sadness into her life. So, I am thinking after the first of the year.
Should I tell lawyer to process it, or wait till after I talk with her and get a date? reason is, I do want her to have ample time to look for health care insurance, as the major item.. This is just a big change, looking for a policy and setting up payments etc. I never had to do this due to being retired Military..
Hi Mach40,

I hope this quote helps you--

Originally Posted by "Edith Eva Eger"
To be passive is to let others decide for you. To be aggressive is to decide for others. To be assertive is to decide for yourself.
Passive aggression is often used by the disempowered. E.g., conscripted soldiers missing shots, an insulted waiter delivering food slowly, or a child hearing "ice cream" but not "chore time". People who can't be assertive. It can also be used to satisfy social norms, e.g. "forgetting" to invite someone instead of telling them "You aren't invited!" You may have had legitimate reasons to use passive aggression in the past. But, start to be aware when you do use it, and if you could be powerful and assertive instead.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Holidays and her Mother just passing, no need to put more sadness into her life. So, I am thinking after the first of the year.
While that's kind (and a fine date), I would encourage you to detach and worry about your side of the divorce. She's already dating and there's never a perfect moment to say, "I'm divorcing you."

Originally Posted by Mach40
Should I tell lawyer to process it, or wait till after I talk with her and get a date? reason is, I do want her to have ample time to look for health care insurance, as the major item.. This is just a big change, looking for a policy and setting up payments etc. I never had to do this due to being retired Military..
While that's kind (and sweet), I would encourage you to detach and worry about your side of the divorce. The court will give her adequate time before finalizing to figure her stuff out.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Mach40,

I hope this quote helps you--

Originally Posted by "Edith Eva Eger"
To be passive is to let others decide for you. To be aggressive is to decide for others. To be assertive is to decide for yourself.
Great quote, makes allot of sense. Still need to change the way I speak, since apparently this is an issue.. I need to focus before I speak
Passive aggression is often used by the disempowered. E.g., conscripted soldiers missing shots, an insulted waiter delivering food slowly, or a child hearing "ice cream" but not "chore time". People who can't be assertive. It can also be used to satisfy social norms, e.g. "forgetting" to invite someone instead of telling them "You aren't invited!" You may have had legitimate reasons to use passive aggression in the past. But, start to be aware when you do, and realize passive aggression isn't attractive.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Holidays and her Mother just passing, no need to put more sadness into her life. So, I am thinking after the first of the year.
While that's kind (and a fine date), I would encourage you to detach and worry about your side of the divorce. She's already dating and there's never a perfect moment to say, "I'm divorcing you."

Originally Posted by Mach40
Should I tell lawyer to process it, or wait till after I talk with her and get a date? reason is, I do want her to have ample time to look for health care insurance, as the major item.. This is just a big change, looking for a policy and setting up payments etc. I never had to do this due to being retired Military..
While that's kind (and sweet), I would encourage you to detach and worry about your side of the divorce. The court will give her adequate time before finalizing to figure her stuff out.
The papers are done, everything is finalized by the Judge.. It just needs to be finalized for a date, as we agreed to everything already. She just didnt want to do it , as it was all too fast and once divorced it would be done ( she used a very good word that meant it was final)
Planning to detach, focus on not being passive aggressive..
I already started losing weight, and such.. I had heart surgery last year, 99% LDA blockage ( thank God for having a third artery), and I busted my knee up pretty bad, so gained a little belly..
The more I read and see my faults in the marriage, I also see we failed as a couple in one super important category, communication.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/08/21 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Mach40
I also see we failed as a couple in one super important category, communication.
Welcome to the LBS club my friend.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Mach40
I also see we failed as a couple in one super important category, communication.
Welcome to the LBS club my friend.
I hear it is a common club.
If only you are taught as a kids what to do and what not to do....
I have a lot to do, and need to plan accordingly...
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/09/21 12:17 PM
Mach40,

What are you doing in terms of self-improvement and GAL? How are you creating a life for yourself that (most importantly) you love, but also will be more attractive to your W and other women? Are you working out at a gym, joining a book club, volunteering for some local cause, taking a class at a community college...etc.?
Originally Posted by BL42
Mach40,

What are you doing in terms of self-improvement and GAL? How are you creating a life for yourself that (most importantly) you love, but also will be more attractive to your W and other women? Are you working out at a gym, joining a book club, volunteering for some local cause, taking a class at a community college...etc.?
Right now I am biking slowly as my knees are still in recovery.
I am back into restoring a car, and driving it. This was a passion I set aside when I married her. I take it to car shows, cruises when I can. Its my click, my zone, and many people on both sides male/female enjoy cars, cruises and such..
I am traveling allot now for work, and going to restaurants, sites etc. I am Not sitting idle waiting.
As far as a gym, nope. I do curls and push ups, planks etc.. After heart surgery, been being a little more careful. Not an excuse, but an eye opener..
My daughter suggested cooking clinics with the college and local chefs. I am lacking in cooking skills, other than basic BBQ.. She is an aspiring Chef, in college for it and working at a high end restaurant with a celebrity Chef.
The biggest thing I need guidance is detaching. Financially it will assist as I was a buyer for her and the kids, ie gifts, helping when I could etc. I have got to stop that..
But detaching, where do you really begin.. I have a couple great threads here, I have printed. And I have DB book..
And I have already started recognizing and fixing the passive aggressive issue. It is apparent I do it, and I now I know its a problem and I need help.
After reading over some things, I think my wife may have been part of this forum.. She is , like said someone said before , so far ahead in moving on than me.
She is well educated and a reader, analyzer.
Hi Mach,

I just re-read your original threads for context. I have some deeper questions--

Originally Posted by Mach40
My wife is a super good person, but
Your wife had an EA. LBS script is that the WAS was angelic or demonic. Consider seeing the woman in front of you may help with both R and Detaching. I suspect she's neither super-good not super-villainous, but like most people you meet.

Originally Posted by Mach40, now
I ruined the marriage... me toxic and abusive mentally to one child, my oldest step child.
If you were toxic and mentally abusive once and she left, it's all on you. If she didn't do anything to change the dynamics and had an EA instead to feel better.. hmm.. could guilt underly her anger towards you?

Originally Posted by Mach40
Well, I found out that she has started the dating pool, and hates it according to her and family.. So, everyone apparently knew and assumed I did too.
I'm confused because she was already dating in Jan-2020 according to you. What made you think she had stopped dating, or why is this surprising to you two years later? In that much time, she surely had some limited successes.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Mach,

I just re-read your original threads for context. I have some deeper questions--

Originally Posted by Mach40
My wife is a super good person, but
Your wife had an EA. LBS script is that the WAS was angelic or demonic. Consider seeing the woman in front of you may help with both R and Detaching. I suspect she's neither super-good not super-villainous, but like most people you meet.
So, are you saying my image of her is really no different than most women?

Originally Posted by Mach40, now
I ruined the marriage... me toxic and abusive mentally to one child, my oldest step child.
If you were toxic and mentally abusive once and she left, it's all on you. If she didn't do anything to change the dynamics and had an EA instead to feel better.. hmm.. could guilt underly her anger towards you?
Its possible. Can you explain deeper.
Originally Posted by Mach40
Well, I found out that she has started the dating pool, and hates it according to her and family.. So, everyone apparently knew and assumed I did too.
I'm confused because she was already dating in Jan-2020 according to you. What made you think she had stopped dating, or why is this surprising to you two years later? In that much time, she surely had some limited successes.
She had an EA, yes, but from someone in Mass, vice here in South Carolina. I understand EAs are pretty deep for women, and can be more powerful than PA..
I am well aware that she could have had some PAs along the way, and if so, I cant prove it or not. It is what it is.
Now, just recently, she has gotten into the dating pool, and made it known. Before, it was well hidden. Whether its real or not ( as it is her saying as well as family), She is moving forward and has been for some time. She is very calculated. When she puts a plan into motion, its well thought out..
Hi Mach,

Originally Posted by Mach40
Its possible. Can you explain deeper.
"Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me." If you were "toxic and mentally abusive" to that step-daughter for an extended period of time--there's cause for her to be angry at you, but if she didn't intervene she was also an enabler. It's possible some of her anger towards you may be a projection of the anger she feels towards herself for not acting sooner to stop you. Just a thought--may or may not apply to your situation.

Originally Posted by "Mach40, Oct21"
Now, just recently, she has gotten into the dating pool, and made it known.I am well aware that she could have had some PAs along the way, and if so, I cant prove it or not. It is what it is.

Well, you said the following two years ago--

Originally Posted by "Mach40, Jan20"
But, she wants to date non committal men to see help her heal ( can someone explain WTH that means?) She thinks if I date someone, I will fully embrace her and go forward.

Two years ago you legally separated, and she told you she wanted either casual dates or casual sex with other men while you waited for her. If I understand correctly, now she's telling others, so dating isn't new, but it may be more serious now.

Originally Posted by Mach40
So, are you saying my image of her is really no different than most women?
I'm saying to consider if you have rose-colored glasses on if you're calling a woman who has EAs "super good" relative to other women. Try to see her clearly, neither angel nor demon, the woman in front of you.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Mach,

Originally Posted by Mach40
Its possible. Can you explain deeper.
"Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me." If you were "toxic and mentally abusive" to that step-daughter for an extended period of time--there's cause for her to be angry at you, but if she didn't intervene she was also an enabler. It's possible some of her anger towards you may be a projection of the anger she feels towards herself for not acting sooner to stop you. Just a thought--may or may not apply to your situation.
Okay, I understand now.

Originally Posted by "Mach40, Oct21"
Now, just recently, she has gotten into the dating pool, and made it known.I am well aware that she could have had some PAs along the way, and if so, I cant prove it or not. It is what it is.

Well, you said the following two years ago--

Originally Posted by "Mach40, Jan20"
But, she wants to date non committal men to see help her heal ( can someone explain WTH that means?) She thinks if I date someone, I will fully embrace her and go forward.
She did say that, but nothing ever became of it.. No talk of it, no follows, nothing to say she was. So, I guess I just never thought it had been happening till now.

Two years ago you legally separated, and she told you she wanted either casual dates or casual sex with other men while you waited for her. If I understand correctly, now she's telling others, so dating isn't new, but it may be more serious now.
Not sure if it is more serious, or maybe she just wants me to know.?

Originally Posted by Mach40
So, are you saying my image of her is really no different than most women?
I'm saying to consider if you have rose-colored glasses on if you're calling a woman who has EAs "super good" relative to other women. Try to see her clearly, neither angel nor demon, the woman in front of you.
Okay, a relationship outside the marriage is still a relationship..

Only my wife knows the truth. Most of what I see or hear is my interpretation of it..
Maybe in reality she is just done with the separation, and wants to get back together but is not wanting to try without an epiphany of vision that it will all go well.
In the meantime, I have to go forward. I havent been for some time.
This past few days has opened up my eyes, maybe taken off the rose colored glasses.
Mach, your situation sounds very similar to mine. Wife in a long distance EA. No PA or evidence of one. Wife getting onto dating apps. Etc. If I remember right your ages are even similar to ours. (My W's 50 birthday precipitated a lot of her waywardness.)

Obviously the one difference is the time frame. My situation was very much compressed timewise compared to yours.

Wife went from BD (which I initiated based on finding some FB Messenger messages between her an OM several states away), to full blown wanting a D, to getting on a dating site (where she told potential suitors that she was not ready to actually date, and pretty much told our whole story (her wanting out of the MR)) complete with a picture! All that within a matter of weeks.

I say all that to repeat that you have had the patience of Job (the Bible character, not the moderator!) in your situation. I am a big proponent of taking people's actions over their words. This is why I do not advocate discussing this with her. She can say all the right things. "No. this doesn't mean I don't want to try." "I am just trying to see what I am missing out on. I thought maybe if I went on dates with some guys that ended up being losers, it would make me want to come back to the MR." (Things I heard from my W, by the way!)

Those words are just that....words. The action, (starting to date) is really your answer. We as LBSs often do not want to face the answer that is so obvious and abundantly clear. I think of Steve_ here, if you have seen his threads. His W was moving out, moving in with OM, but all she had to do was say "I love you and don't want to lose you" and he was running out and buying her flowers and candy (as well some even more expensive gifts) thinking he was back in.

Actions ALWAYS greater than words. This is why R talks are frowned on. Because nothing a WAS says trumps what they are doing. "I love you. I don't want to lose you. I may want to work on the MR and reconcile." And then they run back to their EA or PA. And the LBS holds a firm grasp on the words even though what they are doing is really what is slapping the LBS across the face saying "this is the TRUTH!"

So I encourage you, look past her words.....focus on what she is doing. Are her actions giving you the answer you are so desperately to trying to get through what she may say? Don't overlook the reality of the situation.

These words in my situation were very eye-opening: "Women do not need to move out and get their own place to work on the MR or themselves. Women move out and get their own place so that they can sleep with other people." I don't quote that to hurt you, thought they may sting. But I feel like you've been holding on for so long without seeing the underlying truth in your sitch.

Mach, regardless of what you W says, what are you doing to set yourself up for a great rest of your life?
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by BL42
Mach40,

What are you doing in terms of self-improvement and GAL? How are you creating a life for yourself that (most importantly) you love, but also will be more attractive to your W and other women? Are you working out at a gym, joining a book club, volunteering for some local cause, taking a class at a community college...etc.?
Right now I am biking slowly as my knees are still in recovery.
I am back into restoring a car, and driving it. This was a passion I set aside when I married her. I take it to car shows, cruises when I can. Its my click, my zone, and many people on both sides male/female enjoy cars, cruises and such..
I am traveling allot now for work, and going to restaurants, sites etc. I am Not sitting idle waiting.
As far as a gym, nope. I do curls and push ups, planks etc.. After heart surgery, been being a little more careful. Not an excuse, but an eye opener..
My daughter suggested cooking clinics with the college and local chefs. I am lacking in cooking skills, other than basic BBQ.. She is an aspiring Chef, in college for it and working at a high end restaurant with a celebrity Chef.
The biggest thing I need guidance is detaching. Financially it will assist as I was a buyer for her and the kids, ie gifts, helping when I could etc. I have got to stop that..
But detaching, where do you really begin.. I have a couple great threads here, I have printed. And I have DB book..
And I have already started recognizing and fixing the passive aggressive issue. It is apparent I do it, and I now I know its a problem and I need help.

This isn't bad, but I feel like you are doing all of the GAL stuff above but constantly watching to see if she is noticing. That will never get you to where you want to be.

As far as detachment. Detachment is more internal than external. Yes, you should knock off the financial stuff. That has gotten you no where. Remember, do what works. Stop what doesn't.

But detachment is a state of mind. It is staying emotionally even, unaffected even (some claim this is impossible but I disagree), by what she says and does. The fact that her dating, even after a long separation, is proof positive you were still attached. That you were not properly emotionally detached. I mean, be honest, if I really pressed you, were you really surprised that she started dating? Or were you mostly just hurt? I know in my own sitch, after my W's original EAP ended it (just a few weeks after BD), I had enough insight to know to look at dating sites to see if she started a profile. And while it cut to the quick when I found it (after only a few minutes of looking I might add), I was not surprised.

This was about a month after BD, and while I had been working on detaching, I obviously was not there yet. But I got better at it. Detachment is not a switch you can flip. But what I mentioned in my previous post certainly helps: facing the reality of your situation. IN my sitch I faced that the fact that the likelihood was I was going to be D'd. She was insistent that she wanted to get a job, get an apartment and get a D. She was involved in the original EA initially, moved on to another OM that never fully developed (he was also several states away) and started a profile on a dating site. She had done research on apartments nearby, googled quicky divorces, ask me if she could have furniture from the house, started working on her resume, etc). All signs were pointing to a lot of momentum for her plan.

So I got onboard. One of the biggest changes I made was I stopped reacting. And started responding, or just ignoring certain behaviors. An example, 4 weeks in when I found her dating profile I immediately called her and confronted. If that had been 4 weeks later, I would not have confronted her. I would have noted and moved along. I got so much better at responding rather than reacting. (Just saw a good article you might want to google on that very topic: responding vs. reacting).

Detachment is not easy. It is difficult. It does get easier over time, but you have to work at it. And DO things that help, not hinder the progress.
SteveLW,
Thnx for the reply to the thread. I have obviously had allot of patience, and HAD a belief she was trying to figure things out.
After reading other posts on here, I am not looking through life with her through rose colored glasses..
This thread, and all the posts have made something click in my brain to go forward.
So I am. I am slowly moving forward, as you cant do it overnight..
I have realized the passive aggressiveness, among some issues I need to fix on myself.
I have already gone out to dinner a few times, in high traffic areas where people go, just to get my feet wet, per say..
Going to Italy Friday, with DB book and will dive heavily into a plan.. Cant hurt to start there...The inspiration of being away will help. New faces, place, etc..
Posted By: BL42 Re: Legally separated, in our homes...Relocated - 10/11/21 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by Mach40
Originally Posted by BL42
What are you doing in terms of self-improvement and GAL? How are you creating a life for yourself that (most importantly) you love, but also will be more attractive to your W and other women? Are you working out at a gym, joining a book club, volunteering for some local cause, taking a class at a community college...etc.?
Right now I am biking slowly as my knees are still in recovery.
I am back into restoring a car, and driving it. This was a passion I set aside when I married her. I take it to car shows, cruises when I can. Its my click, my zone, and many people on both sides male/female enjoy cars, cruises and such..
I am traveling allot now for work, and going to restaurants, sites etc. I am Not sitting idle waiting.
As far as a gym, nope. I do curls and push ups, planks etc.. After heart surgery, been being a little more careful. Not an excuse, but an eye opener..
My daughter suggested cooking clinics with the college and local chefs. I am lacking in cooking skills, other than basic BBQ.. She is an aspiring Chef, in college for it and working at a high end restaurant with a celebrity Chef.
This isn't bad, but I feel like you are doing all of the GAL stuff above but constantly watching to see if she is noticing. That will never get you to where you want to be.
The biking sounds good. The car shows sound great...something you're really interested in you can share with and meet other people. You don't HAVE to go to a gym...that was just one suggestion. I like the cooking classes...learn a new skill and meet others.

Originally Posted by Mach40
Going to Italy Friday, with DB book and will dive heavily into a plan.. Cant hurt to start there...The inspiration of being away will help. New faces, place, etc..
A trip to Italy sounds like great GAL!

Overall just filling your time will activities that you enjoy, learn new skills, meet other people...etc. Making your life great :-)


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