There was a lot of good discussion happening on my last thread, but I know they were going to cap it soon.
Here is a link to the last one:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...amp;Number=2920358&nt=11&page=12
I saw this on instagram recently and it reminded me of the conversation we were having here. This really resonated with me:
When relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say “I’m perfect. Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
In the Comments: Until recently, I believed that if I just tried a little bit harder, I could get someone to like me or understand me.
There are so many amazing communication skills and tactics being shared out there. But it can also keep you stuck in this cycle of self-improvement that says “If I just work a little bit harder….this relationship will improve or they’ll finally understand me.”
You can do all the work in the world and there will still be people that are committed to misunderstanding you.
There will still be people that don’t agree with you.
There will still be people that deny your reality.
This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve! But, it’s important to know that sometimes it’s not you. Sometimes you’ve done all the work and you know you tried your hardest.
You know when you’ve done the work.
Have you read about communicating better?
Have you consulted with any therapists or other “experts”?
Have you been practicing?
Do you have deep relationships with other people?
Have you asked for feedback from other people?
Have you reflected on your role in the situation?
Have you been consistently working on your own inner stuff?
If you’ve practiced the scripts, read the books, consulted with the experts, asked for feedback, etc. and the relationship still isn’t improving…take a pause. Maybe you can see that this pattern isn’t showing up in your other relationships. You’ve reflected on what your part is and taken ownership of it. Is the other person doing this too?
Not every relationship can be improved or fixed. Not every relationship is a two-way street. Sometimes it’s one person doing all the other work.
This is just your friendly reminder that sometimes it’s ok to call it quits. It doesn’t mean you failed. It doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
Scott, good post. Cannot really disagree with any of this.
Would like to add. My favorite bald, Texan TV psychologist likes to say: "If you improve as a spouse, your spouse will more than likely respond positive to it." In other words, improving as a spouse cannot hurt your MR, and it more than likely will improve it.
However, in the situation where you work harder, try to improve as a spouse, and become the best version of yourself that you can be, and your spouse continues to want to leave, or not work on the MR, or be a lousy spouse themselves, more than being ok calling it quits, why would you still want to be with that person?
I think this is one of the keys to DBing. The LBS is in "hold on as tight as I can mode". DBing teaches you to look at things more logically, less selfishly, and objectively. Without that most human-beings will be against anything that results in change they are not in control of.
When relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say “I’m perfect. Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
True, but where in the middle. Is it always 50/50? Sometimes is 60/40 or 80/20.
[quote=ScottB]This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve! But, it’s important to know that sometimes it’s not you. Sometimes you’ve done all the work and you know you tried your hardest.
Very true. A balance between self-reflection and improvement, and also recognizing that in some cases it's more about the other person than you.
However, in the situation where you work harder, try to improve as a spouse, and become the best version of yourself that you can be, and your spouse continues to want to leave, or not work on the MR, or be a lousy spouse themselves, more than being ok calling it quits, why would you still want to be with that person?
It's not always about still wanting to be with that person anymore as much as not wanting to be in the resulting situation their actions caused. I guess turning the attitude around and embracing the sitch and making the most of it anyway is the key.
I think this is one of the keys to DBing. The LBS is in "hold on as tight as I can mode". DBing teaches you to look at things more logically, less selfishly, and objectively. Without that most human-beings will be against anything that results in change they are not in control of.
Letting go can be tough. It can be emotional and scary. Probably best in the end.
IWhen relationships end we often blame ourselves and say “I’m the problem.” Or we take no responsibility and say "Their loss.” The hard truth is usually somewhere in the middle.
There are so many amazing communication skills and tactics being shared out there. But it can also keep you stuck in this cycle of self-improvement that says “If I just work a little bit harder….this relationship will improve or they’ll finally understand me.”
This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to learn and improve!
This is just your friendly reminder that sometimes it’s ok to call it quits. It doesn’t mean you failed. It doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
Amen. My XGF and I didn't work because I had unresolved baggage about my past, a disorganized home, control issues, an anxious attachment style, and she was most of my social network. BUT, it also didn't work because she vented her frustrations with life at me, wasn't reliable, had an avoidant attachment style, had control issues, and was suffering from a neurodegenerative disease. It's okay to let go. Keep improving and showing those improvements in interactions with them and others so we don't end up with similar dynamics with them or another in our next relationship. Reality usually lies in the middle.
I am really enjoying the continuation of this conversation.
I had an epiphany today while speaking to my L about some details in our D. My H has some serious cognitive dissonance, to the point where I am concerned about there being a legitimate mental health issue running the cogs behind the scene. I could have spent some time explaining to my L where my concerns were and what I believed was going on, but in the end, no matter how disordered, mentally healthy or unhealthy another person is, the reality is that the truth still lays between their narrative and yours. Whether evenly in the middle, or only one degree off, anything but complete agreement of the facts is going to skew the actual truth. Which left me with the realization that it just doesn't matter how far off-base a person is, we can only work with what is in front of us, whether 99 degrees or 1 degree off, it's still off and we have to meet them where they are at.
Which then leads full circle back to the only person you can control is yourself. So, tell me how do you want to live your one wild and precious life? (Mary Oliver)
Personally, I want to grow from this situation that broke my heart in a million pieces, irrevocably changed the course of my future and that of my children, but I also choose life. And for me, life is more than reflecting on the past and how I could be a better person in my M with H, bean counting the (ever changing) degrees of differences in our narratives and truths, as I was wont to do in an attempt to better myself. For me, life is choosing to take a forest view of the trees and say 'hmm, other people have also said they struggle with me in this arena, I should pay attention' and leave the rest behind as an opinion of one and stop allowing H to define the degrees of differences between us. This allows me the space to just live my way into the answers, allows H his truths and me mine, without conflict or animosity.
For me, this is true detachment. I used to believe detachment meant I wouldn't care at all what H thought or felt. I know now that for me, this may never be true. I may always care, always feel. But if I can separate me and mine from him and his, truly listen and take the truths that I need to accommodate, and leave the rest, I will be able to move on confidently into healing and finding happiness.
For me, life is choosing to take a forest view of the trees and say 'hmm, other people have also said they struggle with me in this arena, I should pay attention' and leave the rest behind as an opinion of one and stop allowing H to define the degrees of differences between us. .
I agree with this. I think our spouse / ex-spouse can be a mirror for us, BUT when listening or taking feedback, we shoudl also consider whether or not we are getting similar feedback from others. If it really is isolated, then it might not be something we stew over for too long.
Recently my counselor recommended a book called "What Matters Most" by James Hollis. Its hitting me at a good time as I continue to work to think about the next chapter and what I (underlined and bold I), what I want. Not my kids, colleagues, parents, or ex. I'm only three chapters in but I'm finding that it to be a good read.
Overall I feel like I'm in the middle of a good run. Work is going better - I'm feeling my limits and paying attention to them so that I don't take too much on. Socially I'm doing good, finding healthy outlets. I'm really enjoying going kayaking when I can get out. Workouts are going well. I had the entire inside of my house repainted and and I'm redecorating everything. A couple of rooms are done, and my favorite thing is that I added a cool mid century modern desk that I use every night to journal, read some poetry, and spend time to think.
The divorce is at the 1 yard line. At this time we've made all the decisions we need to make. I would think the paperwork is all set any day and ready to be signed and submitted. I'm sure that day will be a hiccup. And I'm sure the hearing will be a hiccup. But I'm continuing to work to take steps to stay mentally healthy.
I hope everyone is well.
BUT when listening or taking feedback, we shoudl also consider whether or not we are getting similar feedback from others. If it really is isolated, then it might not be something we stew over for too long.
Agreed. How long and well they've known you are also factors to consider. It can be especially challenging to objectively consider a claim made by a divorcing partner. In retrospect, there are few complaints from my XGF that I disagree with, although my prioritization of addressing issues is not hers.
I had unresolved baggage about my past, a disorganized home, control issues, an anxious attachment style, and she was most of my social network.
For example, how many friends or acquaintances could judge these attributes of me in a romantic relationship in the last decade? WAS (separate from WWS) are rarely angels or demons. They may exaggerate or ignore positives, but there's often truth behind most complaints.
Scotty, you seem like you're in a better place. Your posts seem to be less focussed on her and everything she did wrong and you're seeming more introspective and looking to improve. Its good to read, keep it up mate.
Thanks OnlyBent. I'm starting to sort through what my purpose is and doing some soul searching. My wife was my purpose (and my family). Obviously that is not good - you should not make a person your purpose.
So now I'm trying to do the work to figure it out. We'll see if I get anywhere with it, but I think the journey, the question asking, and the searching is a significant start.
Thanks OnlyBent. I'm starting to sort through what my purpose is and doing some soul searching. My wife was my purpose (and my family). Obviously that is not good - you should not make a person your purpose.
Yep. A lot of us can relate to this, Scott.
I always felt proud by identifying as a family guy, I didn't know that making my partner and family my purpose was a bad thing.
I now realize that balance is critical, and finding our purpose within ourselves is even more important.
Sage4,
the reality is that the truth still lays between their narrative and yours. Whether evenly in the middle, or only one degree off, anything but complete agreement of the facts is going to skew the actual truth.
True, always in-between but to your point is it 50/50 or 90/10 in one direction in the other? From a lot of the sitches I've read here, it seems like most cases the responsibility lies more than 50% on the WS/WAS than the LBS, but the LBS spouse takes on more than 50/50 of the burden initially and usually (at least at first). Whether that's the inherently biased angle in the stories the LBS tells here, or the fact that the folks on here are the ones seeking answers and trying to to fix things, it's important (imo) for some folks to realize it can very much be more about the WS/WAS than the LBS.
Which then leads full circle back to the only person you can control is yourself. So, tell me how do you want to live your one wild and precious life? (Mary Oliver)
Also true. Only thing we can all do moving forward is to improve ourselves for the future.
ScottB,
Recently my counselor recommended a book called "What Matters Most" by James Hollis. Its hitting me at a good time as I continue to work to think about the next chapter and what I (underlined and bold I), what I want. Not my kids, colleagues, parents, or ex. I'm only three chapters in but I'm finding that it to be a good read.
Overall I feel like I'm in the middle of a good run. Work is going better - I'm feeling my limits and paying attention to them so that I don't take too much on. Socially I'm doing good, finding healthy outlets. I'm really enjoying going kayaking when I can get out. Workouts are going well. I had the entire inside of my house repainted and and I'm redecorating everything. A couple of rooms are done, and my favorite thing is that I added a cool mid century modern desk that I use every night to journal, read some poetry, and spend time to think.
I agree w/OB. Sounds like you're doing well and focused on the right areas. Love the talk about self-reflection and reading, work, socializing, workouts, house improvements...etc.
The divorce is at the 1 yard line. At this time we've made all the decisions we need to make. I would think the paperwork is all set any day and ready to be signed and submitted. I'm sure that day will be a hiccup. And I'm sure the hearing will be a hiccup. But I'm continuing to work to take steps to stay mentally healthy.
Keep us posted on the D finalization. Heads up...it could be an emotional day despite the progress (at least it was for me).
Just got this text from my STBEx:
“There has been something that has really been weighing on me and I have debated if and how I should share it with you. I’m sure someone has said something to you about NEIGHBOR and me. You have no reason to believe me and I understand that. NEIGHBOR and I were friends. He was nice enough to tell me about the rumors that were being spread about me years ago and that is what developed the friendship. His dad had dementia so I would often ask him questions regarding that. Looking back maybe the friendship was too much and there are some things I guess that could be considered shady. For that I am sorry to you and any pain that may have caused. I’m not even sure what HIS WIFE thinks happened between NEIGHBOR and I but it is not good and I am now in another awkward situation. I get that I am an easy target but that doesn’t make what she has said to me ok. She is now working at SALON and DAUGHTER and I saw her tonight and it was super weird. I wouldn’t think much of it but I caught looks from DAUGHTER and FEMALE NEIGHBOR which makes me think more people have heard her side of the story. I would like nothing more to move on with my life and not see any of these people ever again but that’s not possible. Anyways for what it’s worth, I’m sorry and if you have heard stuff and want to hear my side, I’m happy to tell you. Don’t always believe everything you hear.”
So I’m theory this would be a second other man. What’s funny is I remember feeling uncomfortable with their relationship too. And we kind of had a big fight about her reaching out to him to help with something instead of me.
Throw that one on top of another rumored affair right before she moved out. It’s almost funny if it wasn’t sad and didn’t impact my kids.
Anyhow, this is a funny twist. Thoughts? How do I respond to this one?
I think you don't respond. If it's brought up again, you simply tell her it's none of your business. Because it truly isn't.
You know what you know and that's enough. Do you really want to hear her side? I think it would be very bad and not helpful in your healing journey.
My view from the cheap seats.
x
I think i agree with hope, as in i wouldnt push for her side of the story. But if she ever brought that up again and wanted to tell you then i would listen and validate.
Would it make any difference? What if she told you her side of the story? Will you life or how you feel change at all?
I would either leave it at that, or respond with something neutral like that must have been uncomfortable for you, i understand. Hopefully things will settle with time.
Let me add, this happened two years ago when we were still married. And we actually had a confrontation about it between the two of us. It also came up in counseling. She accused me of emotional manipulation related to it.
I never heard any rumors about it, but I was uncomfortable with how close her and this guy were getting.
Anyhow, hearing that in the “community” people were talking about it, feels like it validates my POV. Like having someone tell me, yet again, “you’re not crazy.”
Let me add, this happened two years ago when we were still married. And we actually had a confrontation about it between the two of us. It also came up in counseling. She accused me of emotional manipulation related to it.
I never heard any rumors about it, but I was uncomfortable with how close her and this guy were getting.
Anyhow, hearing that in the “community” people were talking about it, feels like it validates my POV. Like having someone tell me, yet again, “you’re not crazy.”
Here's why I say don't listen. It doesn't matter. It's in the past, and by listening, she has a chance to justify or deny or any manner of things. It won't help that "you're not crazy" feeling. It could possible cause more self doubt, at the least, or worse, you might start to get angry at listening to her twist the truth.
At any rate, you were uncomfortable with the relationship. It hurt you. She didn't help you with your feelings. Rather, she turned it on you by accusing you of "emotional manipulation". Does that sound like fun? Do you want to go back?
Like GiGi said, do you need to hear her side of the story? At this point in your journey, time to focus on what will bring healing and growth. So do what will help you attain that.
I don’t plan to ask for her side, I don’t really care. It’s in the past and doesn’t matter. I’ll reply with something similar to what Gigi said and move on. I feel sorry for my kids though. [censored] that they have to see that kind of thing happen.
Do not validate BS behavior! Do not respond!
Your STBX has now been at minimum 3 inappropriate relationships with other men while you we’re together plus cheated on her BF with you.
She’s a serial cheater and consider yourself lucky to be rid of her!
Do not respond!
Her reaching out is at best inconsiderate to your feelings, and more likely manipulative. She is divorcing you yet feels the need to reach out so you not think ill of her? That's BS.
Then you would the follow up text several hours later:
"BTW, SON's grades are sh!t and he is giving me total attitude about it. I know we disagree on how we parent about school but I really would like him to care more about his grades. Cs and Ds for him are unacceptable to me."
I responded:
"I agree. He needs to do better than that. It's disappointing. It will be interesting to talk with him to hear what going on with school."
Not sure how I'll get graded on my response but a couple of things:
Last week I saw the two of them interact and he pays he no mind. She would ask him a question and he wouldn't answer. I have thought all along he knows something about the affair, but now hearing that people are talking about another possibility, it seems all but certain. I don't know how to help him through what I perceive as his anger. It doesn't come out around me.
Second, I feel like that text gives insight into her dealings with him and her dealings in general.
And lastly, I'm really worried about my kids. On the service they seem fine but I feel like things are happening underneath. I'm worried about my son and what I perccieve as his disdain for his mother which seems to transfer to others at times (specifically he has a real issue with feeling "disrespected" by teachers and it seems to be women more specifically). I'm worried about my daughters moral compass as her mom talks about sleeping on some guys boat and normalizes that behavior.
And then LH just made me realize that my STBEx would have been having sex with me and her ex back in college. That never went through my mind before but at this age, that seems kind of gross. It also points to the fact that she sees that as acceptable. I don't know, something new I had never thought about before (and not entirely relevant).
"I agree. He needs to do better than that. It's disappointing. It will be interesting to talk with him to hear what going on with school."
This is a good response just make sure you follow through and try to find out what's going on.
Last week I saw the two of them interact and he pays he no mind. She would ask him a question and he wouldn't answer. I have thought all along he knows something about the affair, but now hearing that people are talking about another possibility, it seems all but certain. I don't know how to help him through what I perceive as his anger. It doesn't come out around me.
Talk to him. Find out what he knows or doesn't know. He's probably dying to get it off his chest.
Second, I feel like that text gives insight into her dealings with him and her dealings in general.
Not necessarily. She's probably just worried about his grades.
And lastly, I'm really worried about my kids. On the service they seem fine but I feel like things are happening underneath. I'm worried about my son and what I perccieve as his disdain for his mother which seems to transfer to others at times (specifically he has a real issue with feeling "disrespected" by teachers and it seems to be women more specifically).
Do you have him in therapy?
I'm worried about my daughters moral compass as her mom talks about sleeping on some guys boat and normalizes that behavior.
She tells your daughter she's sleeping on some dudes boat? In what context?
And then LH just made me realize that my STBEx would have been having sex with me and her ex back in college. That never went through my mind before but at this age, that seems kind of gross. It also points to the fact that she sees that as acceptable. I don't know, something new I had never thought about before (and not entirely relevant).
I think she may have a problem with monogamy.
Look I get this stuff is hard, especially when it's fresh. And all of this anger of mine isn't pointed directly at you Scott but some of the newly divorced parents around here including yourself are really struggling with some things that you shouldn't be struggling with. So that being said, please know that all of the below is to address what you said, but the whole thing isn't pointed directly at you. It's also addressing in a broad sense some of the things you brought up that I see a little too much of for people who have access to the internet and search engines.
Children ignore their mothers in perfectly happy healthy 2 parent no A, no D homes. When it's the voice you hear the most it's the easiest to tune out. When it's the one telling you no the most you stop hearing the nos. When it's the one telling you when and how to do things the most inevitably it will sound like white noise. Also kids start showing open defiance and testing boundaries with there parents in their tweens. You're describing perfectly normal developmentally appropriate behavior and attributing to your own problems because it's one more thing to blame or shame exW for.
And I swear to god if another man comes on here and compares his daughter to his exW or says he's worried about her modeling her behavior after her mother because of the affair I'm going to scream. Don't project your problems with your exW's behavior on your daughter. Get your head out of your back side and stop creating imaginary future issues that don't actually and likely won't exist. You want your daughter to understand what healthy behavior is in a relationship? You model it for her. You want your daughter to know what kind of behavior is becoming of a future mate? Show her. Your daughter has 2 parents.
Keep your side of the street clean, and mind your own business. What happens in mom's house is mom's business. What happens in your house is your business. If the children aren't in harm's way or fearful they needn't share what happens in each other's household. You and exW really need to develop some much more healthy and more rigid boundaries. You are far too enmeshed at this stage in the game. Two households. Two lives. You parent side by side until you have enough time and distance from the marriage to parent cooperatively.
Next on to detachment, and control. Detachment is a process you should always be working on with your ex. It doesn't stop because you aren't trying to save the marriage any more. You can't control what exW does. You can't control what she did. You can't control how she is with the kids. You can't control what the kids think or feel about her. You can't control what behaviors, thought processes, ideals or beliefs that they will get from their mother, or you for that matter. The only thing you can do is control yourself. You be the best you, you can be. You be the best dad you can be. In the future you be the best boyfriend and maybe someday husband you can be. That's all you can do.
Children are not an extension of their parents. They are their own people, with their own thoughts, coping mechanisms, and life experiences shaping them. They won't be carbon copies of either of you. They will only be themselves. They also won't ever share the same world view as you, because the world looks different to them. Even if you do agree on many things as they age you will still never think or feel the exact same way about anything. The sooner you fully understand that and accept that the better.
I strongly, strongly suggest you take a co-parenting class. I think it would also help if you picked up a book or two or just read a few articles online about child development so you can understand better what typical and what is atypical behavior. What you should worry about, and what you need to learn to roll with the punches. Lastly, I strongly, strongly suggest you get into IC if you aren't in it already. You need the tools to separate your issues with your exW from your issues or potential issues with your children. You need some tools to process this so you aren't projecting your issues on to your kids. You're going to need some tools to parent as the kids get older that you probably haven't thought of. We should all be striving to be the best parent we are capable of. And with IC it would really help you to have an unbiased sounding board process the D and the future of co-parenting.
I agree. He needs to do better than that. It's disappointing. It will be interesting to talk with him to hear what going on with school.
Scott, it's a fine response, short and to the point--we don't always need to validate. (:
I agree with many of Wayfarer's points. She says, "Kids start showing open defiance and testing boundaries with their parents in their tweens." In another thread, an LBH asks how their daughter's day was, and he attributes the short answer of "Fine" or "Good" to parental alienation. D probably has an effect, but these aren't unusual teen behaviors. If you haven't talked to your kids much about the D, that is something worth talking about. There are good books on the topic to help you cause more ease than unease. I read one by Mr. Rogers which was appropriate for my kids' ages. Talking to him about what's going on at school is a no-brainer. Bringing up an affair they may not know about seems like extra baggage they don't need.
Keep your side of the street clean, and mind your own business. What happens in mom's house is mom's business. What happens in your house is your business.
Wayfarer, I could not agree with you more.
I am a mom to a teen daughter . It’s rough at times. Is she rough at times because she is “modeling my behavior”. NO! It’s because she is a teenage girl navigating her way and becoming her own person! When she’s being a bit$h is it because I’m a bit&h? NO!!!
I have heard far too many LBH start to say as their daughter exhibit normal age appropriate ( which is not always desirable) behavior, that they are scared they are becoming their “mom” and are “afraid”
Come on now. It’s so easy to blame on the walk away spouse. But really not fair to project on to the child.
Things happen in my ex’s house that I’m not fond of sometimes. But I instead my daughter the tools to cope If she asks .
My ex boyfriend used to think his sons bad behaviors at pre school were due to something his ex wife must be doing. After my observation, it was easy to see those behaviors had nothing to do with her and due to him giving him 24/7 undivided attention . But he said his mom must not pay enough attention to him
In the beginning it’s raw and painful and people just want to blame everything on the wall away. There is only so much you can.
I agree with Wayfarer.
One thing that I could have done better was "Date my daughter" more. Go do things with her. Show her how she should be treated by a man.
"BTW, SON's grades are sh!t and he is giving me total attitude about it. I know we disagree on how we parent about school but I really would like him to care more about his grades. Cs and Ds for him are unacceptable to me."
I responded:
"I agree. He needs to do better than that. It's disappointing. It will be interesting to talk with him to hear what going on with school."
Not sure how I'll get graded on my response but a couple of things:
Your response was fine.
This is my thought process:
"Thanks for sharing. I believe D's and F's are unacceptable. I will speak to him again. I will be restricting some of his privileges until his grades improve. I will let you know what the outcome is."
Wayfarer, I could not agree with you more.
I am a mom to a teen daughter . It’s rough at times. Is she rough at times because she is “modeling my behavior”. NO! It’s because she is a teenage girl navigating her way and becoming her own person! When she’s being a bit$h is it because I’m a bit&h? NO!!!
I have heard far too many LBH start to say as their daughter exhibit normal age appropriate ( which is not always desirable) behavior, that they are scared they are becoming their “mom” and are “afraid”
Come on now. It’s so easy to blame on the walk away spouse. But really not fair to project on to the child.
I'm a mom to a 19 year old and a bonus parent to a 17 year old. I had my daughter as a teen. I was a nanny for a long time. I worked in courts for a decade almost exclusively in juvenile justice. I think it's safe to say anyone who's had to raise a teenage girl truly understands the concept of loving detachment....lol.
However, I've noticed people who aren't around kids much outside of their own kids don't generally get that defiance is normal. And it's actually a desired trait. It means your kid won't just drink the kool-aid or jump off the bridge. But humans by nature are either conflict adverse, or incapable of not engaging. There's very little middle ground unless you've been in therapy for ages. So I do understand why it can be an emotional landmine but what I don't get is why parents let it continue to be one. Teens and tweens are hard to parent for everyone.
More people just need to understand that some times even really exhausting behavior is normal. More people need to understand parenting isn't as instinctual as they'd like to believe there are experts and resources for a reason. Also learning to pick your battles, finding healthy coping mechanisms and communication techniques, and knowing what is within the realm of typical so you can address atypical behavior with intervention are the only ways to the other side of these years. And thankfully there's almost always an other side with trying kids.
I will add to the chorus of not responding to the post about the neighbor. I like the response about your son's grades.
One thing about cheaters....they will not admit to cheating until the evidence proving it is insurmountable. I know people that were pretty much caught (they were seen going into a hotel room with another person) that to this day have denied cheating. Most cheaters will lie, avoid, deflect, explain and come up with crazy stories to deny they have actually cheated. Short of pictures or video of them in the very act they will attempt to deny.
I say all that to say, in case you were even slightly tempted to hear her side of the story, that you will never get the truth from her. And even if you do you cannot trust that it is the whole truth. This is her guilt coming back on her. Innocent people rarely feel the need to prove their innocence. People that are trying to hide things are the ones that insist on their innocence.
The bottom line is that now none of this matters. You are moving forward with your life without her. Her past transgressions are no longer your problem.
Then you would the follow up text several hours later:
"BTW, SON's grades are sh!t and he is giving me total attitude about it. I know we disagree on how we parent about school but I really would like him to care more about his grades. Cs and Ds for him are unacceptable to me."
I responded:
"I agree. He needs to do better than that. It's disappointing. It will be interesting to talk with him to hear what going on with school."
Not sure how I'll get graded on my response but a couple of things:
Last week I saw the two of them interact and he pays he no mind. She would ask him a question and he wouldn't answer. I have thought all along he knows something about the affair, but now hearing that people are talking about another possibility, it seems all but certain. I don't know how to help him through what I perceive as his anger. It doesn't come out around me.
Second, I feel like that text gives insight into her dealings with him and her dealings in general.
And lastly, I'm really worried about my kids. On the service they seem fine but I feel like things are happening underneath. I'm worried about my son and what I perccieve as his disdain for his mother which seems to transfer to others at times (specifically he has a real issue with feeling "disrespected" by teachers and it seems to be women more specifically). I'm worried about my daughters moral compass as her mom talks about sleeping on some guys boat and normalizes that behavior.
And then LH just made me realize that my STBEx would have been having sex with me and her ex back in college. That never went through my mind before but at this age, that seems kind of gross. It also points to the fact that she sees that as acceptable. I don't know, something new I had never thought about before (and not entirely relevant).
Your response seems a bit canned, IMO.
Your son may need to talk about something, yes, but that is no excuse for piss poor effort in school. I don't care what the situation is, the right thing is the right thing. Kids will look for excuses and people are giving too many excuse, generally speaking, and not enough direction.
Teach him how to deal with adversity. The hard path is the correct path, do not avoid it, seek it out and overcome it.
Teach him how to deal with adversity. The hard path is the correct path, do not avoid it, seek it out and overcome it.
Straight from the Stoic playbook Ovr, I like it. I hope you can find the time to post more often.
So, your ex told you that your son’s grades were bad. Did you know this before she came and told you?
Ginger, I was not aware of his grades before her text. But I did talk with him about them and he seems to be making an effort.
I don’t know how much background to give in this one, but I’ll try.
This morning the kids and I made brunch as a family. My daughter ate some bacon but didn’t eat her waffle and got up to go play. My son and I finished eating and talked for a bit. I got up to clean up and since they had helped cook I decided to clean up on my own. As I’m almost finished my daughter comes I to the kitchen and says she is hungry. I expressed frustration in saying that she didn’t eat her breakfast and I was still cleaning eat up from that meal. She complained saying we did t have apples or beef sticks and there was nothing to eat. She left for a bit.
So later I saw on her phone that she had texted my ex that she wants to live with her and not me any longer. I know this is somewhat typical behavior, I know she’s coping with the divorce and she’s 10. But it still hurts. Especially because I’m trying real hard with her. Anyhow, not a lot of places I can share that so I thought I’d put it here.
Just keep showing up as the best Dad you can be Scotty, that's all you can control. Make sure you are listening to her and validating where appropriate. Consistency is key.
Can understand how hurtful that must have been to see regardless.
ScottB,
Sorry man, that's rough. I can imagine that stung. Just keep reminding yourself she's young and processing through everything. If you keep being the best dad you can be she'll likely recognize that in time.
Hi Scott,
I think most of us have confronted some variation of this scenario.
Choosing to not eat breakfast, then being hungry an hour later is called a "natural consequence". Kids learn from consequences. A 10 year-old can survive being hungry for 1-2 hours. It sounded like a rough day, so I'll share how this might have played out differently at my home--
1) You responded to her feeling hungry with frustration. Remember validation and active listening? I deploy it not only on ex's, but also friends, family, and on a good day myself. Aren't they even more deserving? As you practice this skill, it will come more easily, and it will sound more natural.
2) It sounds like you didn't have food she could get herself when she was hungry. I have fresh fruit on hand most of the time but it doesn't always happen. When it doesn't, my pantry has fruit cups in natural juices. When that doesn't happen (fail, lol), I'd put her leftovers in the fridge (even if they rarely eat them).
You: "Oh, your waffles are still here if you want them."
D: "I don't like cold waffles."
You:"Yeah, they do taste better when they're warm."
D: "I don't want them."
You: "I respect you're not hungry enough to eat cold waffles." (If you have time) "You know, if you'd like, I'd be happy to teach you how to heat up those waffles."
D: <frustrated> "I just want apples."
You: "I get you want apples more than waffles. Waffles are what we have now. I'm going shopping today. You can help me pick out fruits so we have some on-hand that you like?"
Wow--the comment about wanting to live full-time with mom would be a punch to the gut, for me as well. Does she know you read your texts? I wonder if, after you expressed your frustration at her, it was simply a safe way for her (unequal in power dynamics) to respond by expressing her frustration at you.
At 10, the decision isn't something she controls. You have years to improve your relationship before she's at any point where she could make a choice, and hopefully, you and your XW continue to get along such that neither of you undermines each other on this journey of learning to be good single parents.
Wow--the comment about wanting to live full-time with mom would be a punch to the gut, for me as well.
Yeah, that's tough to hear but keep in mind her age - she might just be venting frustration and not really mean it. Unfortunately a D makes it easier for the kids to play the parents off each other; it's harder for the parents to keep a united front on parenting.
Does she know you read your texts?
I'd be careful with this. If she does not not you have access or are reading her texts she might see it as a betrayal of her trust if you explicitly bring it up the texts with her.
If she does not not you have access or are reading her texts she might see it as a betrayal of her trust if you explicitly bring it up the texts with her.
I assumed he’s been up-front that he may monitor texts such that this is “monitoring” and not “snooping”. I agree, if he’s reading messages between D and Mom where D expected privacy, that would probably be interpreted as a betrayal, and would be good to resolve before it bites him.
It’s painful to hear those comments. Kids together or apart play off their parents.
My ex boyfriend would give into anything his son wanted. We all went on vacation as a family, his son refused to eat dinner before we hit the boardwalk. We get there and of course he’s hungry and he wants pizza. So everyone had to wait while ate. His kid got what he wanted because he wanted to be the favorite parent. I don’t play that.
Next time, maybe a “when I am done, I’ll heat up your waffles and you can have them”
Its not pleasant to read or hear that, it is in many ways normal. Even when both parents are together kids play them off against each other. Its generally a good cop/bad cop scenario depending on the situation. I know it wont bring you comfort, but my 6 year old said to me the other day, i dont care about you, papa is the only important person to me. I mean did it sting….yes….and in that moment he probably felt it. He later apologised and said its not true. But nonetheless when they are upset they will say things and in that moment they do feel those emotions. Naturally you want to rectify the situation and as tempting as it is, its also important to have discipline at home and enforce it with the kids.
I don’t know how much background to give in this one, but I’ll try.
This morning the kids and I made brunch as a family. My daughter ate some bacon but didn’t eat her waffle and got up to go play. My son and I finished eating and talked for a bit. I got up to clean up and since they had helped cook I decided to clean up on my own. As I’m almost finished my daughter comes I to the kitchen and says she is hungry. I expressed frustration in saying that she didn’t eat her breakfast and I was still cleaning eat up from that meal. She complained saying we did t have apples or beef sticks and there was nothing to eat. She left for a bit.
So later I saw on her phone that she had texted my ex that she wants to live with her and not me any longer. I know this is somewhat typical behavior, I know she’s coping with the divorce and she’s 10. But it still hurts. Especially because I’m trying real hard with her. Anyhow, not a lot of places I can share that so I thought I’d put it here.
That's normal kid behavior.
"You get what you get and you don't throw a fit".
There are literally millions of kids on the Earth TODAY who don't get to eat today or maybe they scrounge up a little bit of stuff your daughter wouldn't like.
Choice >>>>> Consequence. She chose to be hungry.
I agree with all the above.
One of my challenges has always been that my ex gives in on anything the kids want. That's why she also thinks they take advantage of her. But, from a kids perspective - more specifically my daughters, she likes her mom because she always gets what she wants. Historically, when we were together, it always forced me to be the "bad guy."
Now I've taken a step towards center; giving in more and letting things go, because if I play "bad cop" I'll just lose the kids.
Daughter has always been closer to her mom and I think this is just her expressing her sadness with the situation. Over the past 4 weeks I've noticed transitions to my house have been getting harder for her.
I also, unwittingly, peaked her anxiety at breakfast when I asked her if she would like to work on not being scared of dogs anymore. She has a phobia that is really becoming severe and beginning to impact her life. She told me a couple of weeks ago that she was invited to stay the night for a slumber party and told the girl that invited her that she didn't want to go, but later relayed to me she didn't want to go because of their dog and that she has become embarrassed to tell people that.
Anyhow, with this reaction and everything else going on I guess its obviously not time to work on the dog thing. I freaking hate the impact this is having on my kids. That makes me really angry and sad for them.
I also, unwittingly, peaked her anxiety at breakfast when I asked her if she would like to work on not being scared of dogs anymore. I guess its obviously not time to work on the dog thing
It sounds like an area to tread lightly if simply asking if she'd like to work on it triggers a strong emotional reaction rather than a "No." I don't know that I'd give up, but remember you have years and years to try to slowly and gradually address this before she's an adult. The more urgent (if less pleasant) issue demanding attention is her waning desire to visit you vs. visiting mom.
Now I've taken a step towards center; giving in more and letting things go, because if I play "bad cop" I'll just lose the kids.
Yes, don't play "bad cop" or any other negative role. If you tend to be a disciplinarian, really dig into what rules you're enforcing and why. This may end up being an advantage of single parenting. You can't get away with playing unidimensional roles, but have to be a whole parent.
A couple of stories. I have a friend whose XH allows her kids unlimited screen time. She believes screen time should be limited. Since he gets so much there, she decided to play "bad cop". She disallowed any use of phones, computers, or TVs in her home. This became a key factor when her kids turned 16 in their leaving her to live full-time with her XH. (I personally limit screen time when they're here exactly the same as I would if they were here 100%--no "penalty" for time with my XW.)
On the other hand, my XW decided to feed my kids only ice cream as a way to curry their favor. I continued with my normal path of proteins, vegetables--and weekly desserts. No, I did not lose my kids, and they saw through "all ice cream" as quickly as any Disney Dad. On good days my D realized I was the one there when she had school projects or needed to figure out tampons and even told me I didn't give into peer pressure. If you're a firm but loving dad, they will see it over time.
"Parenting with Love and Logic" was the foundation of my parenting style after my D. Definitely different than my X wife's parenting style. Different parenting styles is OK, but the more you can be on the same page the better. Can you and your X talk civilly about parenting issues?
I saw on her phone that she had texted my ex that she wants to live with her and not me any longer. I know this is somewhat typical behavior, I know she’s coping with the divorce and she’s 10. But it still hurts. Especially because I’m trying real hard with her. Anyhow, not a lot of places I can share that so I thought I’d put it here.
Now I've taken a step towards center; giving in more and letting things go, because if I play "bad cop" I'll just lose the kids.
I can relate.
The parents job is to set boundaries. The kids job is to test boundaries. The parents job is to enforce boundaries. This makes the kids feel safe.
I did my best to discuss our emotions AFTER we had a chance to "Cool down". I made our house a safe place to vent emotions. You might want to breach the subject with D. "You appeared frustrated about breakfast the other day. Is that how you felt?"
I like the advice from CW and R2C. I would also suggest you do not overthink things. I think you had a pretty good handle on parenting before the D, right? So why change things drastically after D?
I also do not see a problem with you offering to get your daughter help. I probably would have worded it differently than you did. "Working on it" in her mind may have meant to her you thought you guys should go after breakfast and have her pet a dog. So be clear:
"I understand you feel embarrassed because of your fear of dogs. If you would like, at some point when you are ready, we can look into resources that might help you with that fear. We can look over options like counseling, etc, and if you are comfortable with any of the options we can look into it."
Let her be in charge of the if, when, what, where and how. That why you are supportive, but she gets to decide.
Scott, you are a good guy doing what you feel is best for your kids. I have documented my strained relationship with my daughter here before. Our relationship is really good now. I wasn't perfect, but I tried to always do right by my daughter, and now that she is in her late teens she is starting to see that. So do not judge your relationship with her in a specific point in time. Let her see you constantly keeping her best interest in mind, and eventually she will come around.
I wasn't perfect, but I tried to always do right by my daughter, and now that she is in her late teens she is starting to see that. So do not judge your relationship with her in a specific point in time. Let her see you constantly keeping her best interest in mind, and eventually she will come around.
Same here.
Always do your best. Keep learning new parenting skills. Hone your communications skills with your kids. It is not an easy, job, but the most important one you have.
I wasn't perfect, but I tried to always do right by my daughter, and now that she is in her late teens she is starting to see that. So do not judge your relationship with her in a specific point in time. Let her see you constantly keeping her best interest in mind, and eventually she will come around.
Same here.
Always do your best. Keep learning new parenting skills. Hone your communications skills with your kids. It is not an easy, job, but the most important one you have.
Bingo!
Every single week brings something.
I believe I mentioned the text my STBEx sent me three weeks ago about the "rumors" of her and one of my neighbors. Well, last week my STBEx sent me a spreadsheet of 500+ rows of all the money I owed her going back to 1/1/2021. There were charges of $4 and $10 at amazon and Target as well as larger ones. We agreed that I would pay 70% and she would pay 30% of kids expenses related to school and healthcare. Well she sent all the bills and then some over. Recognize that we are 50/50 custody, and that she works making over $140k per year. She also fought for child support in the settlement and spousal support which comes to over $3k per month and I owe her money, because I had to buy my business of $6k per month. So she is not hurting by any stretch.
And I buy the kids things and haven't sent her a receipt. Shoes, snowboards, ski passes, clothes, etc.
So the 500 rows and charges that are as low as $4 really bothered me. It made me wonder what our marriage was about. She seems to be coming after all the money - literally nickels and dimes.
So I text the woman who was mentioned by my wife in the rumors she said she would be glad to talk with me. Both her and her husband came over to my house.
He apologized for inappropriate behavior. He hid his relationship with my wife; sounds like another EA, and I don't think it went beyond that. They have now been in marriage counseling since she found out last year. Of course I was used to my STBEx hiding things from me and I knew she was too emotionally involved with this guy, but I guess it went on about a year longer than I was really aware.
Anyhow, my STBEx had him put my gun in his gun safe when she took it out of our house at some point. And this past September she wanted it back, but he had blocked her on his phone. So she texted his wife and she didn't respond, because first she didn't know they had my gun and seconed her take was that it was mine and if they were going to give it to some they would give it to me.
So then my Ex got another neighbor woman involved to attempt to retrieve my gun (which had been a gift from her father). And when that didn't work she cornered the husband and threatened them via text saying "If you don't give me my F-ing shotgun I will be calling the police on you."
So my neighbors left it on their porch and told her to get it. Crazy stuff.
And then today I got all the documentation to sign and send off to the attorney's to file.
And when I got in this morning I had 7 emails from my ex. 3 of them related to expenses I owe her for now. And she's keeping a spreadsheet.
I'm spiraling a bit with all of this, which is why I came here to write.
The newly revealed EA is just par for the course. She was friends with the wife, never apologized, and doesn't seem to care at all who she hurts. So that is oddly validating for me. Also, my ex had told me that my uncomfortable feelings about the husband and my STBEx's relationship were BS and accused me of being a bad jealous husband.
I want this over with. But now, it feels like I'm going to be getting hit with nickel and dime expenses for the next 8 years until the kids turn 18. I just want this behind me. I want to move on. It all makes me feel sick.
This day will be behind me soon. It will probably be a bad week or so. I'll need to figure out how to get the ex off of my back with the expenses. And then there will probably be another couple bad days or weeks as we move through the dissolution process in the courts.
I'm so angry about all of it. Sorry for the long emotional venting post, I could probably go on for days.
My X had the spreadsheet as well. I got limits put in place. items needed receipts. All items needs to be submitted by a deadline. We had a financial mediator to help resolve disagreements (Never used him).
Here is the last Email regarding this topic:
Hi X,
It appears there is still confusion between the two of us regarding our last agreement signed on 1/14/16, particularly section D.
My understand is we equalize our reimbursements 4 times a year. Currently, we are equalizing during the first part of July for April, May and June expenses.
Part of the equalization is "proof of payment". Your spreadsheets and emails are not proof of payment. I did not see any attachments showing the invoices or the proof of payment.
Obviously I do not want to quibble, but I do want a copy of the documentation we agreed to supply each other for my records.
Best Regards, R2C
I highly recommend get this type of agreement with you X into your paper work.
Do not roll over like a puppy dog.
Here is the relevant part:
Commencing forthwith it is agreed:
A. Father agrees to increase his child support obligation, payable to mother to the monthly sum of XX Hundred (XXX.00) Dollars, payable directly to mother, until further court order. Mother and Father acknowledges that such increase in support may be a deviation from the child support guidelines, but the increase/deviation is in the best interests of all concerned, to avoid the ongoing disputes.
B. ln consideration thereof, mother shall be solely responsible to assume and pay whatever extraordinary expenses she may decide to expend on the children including but not limited to: motor vehicle insurance, acquisition/payment of a motor vehicle and the expense associated therewith; cell/smart phones; and the child(ren)'s extracurricular activities / expenses and father is "excused" from providing financial assistance for such costs...
D. Regarding any issue pertinent to uninsured medical, dental, therapy the parties on a quarterly basis (end of March, end of June, end of Sept. and end of December) shall submit: invoice, proof of payment, proof of insurance, and request for reimbursement; the other parent shall have 30 days in which to dispute and/or pay; in the event of dispute MEDIATOR shall be the master/arbiter of the issue; if the other parent does not dispute, in writing the reimbursement request then the same shall be paid forthwith. Any expense not requested within 20 days of the above "deadlines" shall be deemed waived. The definition of uninsured medical, dental, therapy, etc shall not be controlled by the statutory definition, i.e. since both parties are "custodial parents" the $250 annual deduction shall not apply, and the right to reimbursement shall still be Husband is responsible for XX% and mother YY% responsible.
Scott, what does your lawyer say about this?
Hi Scott,
Ready2Change hit the nail on the head. You apparently agreed to pay for 70% of childrens' expenses, and allow submissions 11 months late. That's big money. She is probably as annoyed she has to itemize them, as you are annoyed at having to review $4 expenses and itemize them yourself. If itemization is frustrating you, the simple thing to do is to end it as he proposed above.
Itemize your childrens' expenses this past year. Now, what is the $SUM you owe for 11 months? She would probably be amenable to dropping the itemization and simply paying ($SUM/11) * 5% extra each month.
The only expense in my agreement where my ex and I split costs are mandatory medical expenses. These could be urgent and costly. In our agreement, receipts must be submitted within 30 days.
If you are paying more than child support guidelines, talk to your attorney.
Good advice. I hate taking to attorney because it is so expensive but I will need to on this.
On other note, emotionally 3 months ago all that has happened would have set me back pretty far for a couple of days and I’m actually feeling pretty good this evening. The hangovers from dealing with her are becoming shorter.
Good advice. I hate taking to attorney because it is so expensive but I will need to on this.
On other note, emotionally 3 months ago all that has happened would have set me back pretty far for a couple of days and I’m actually feeling pretty good this evening. The hangovers from dealing with her are becoming shorter.
That's good to hear. You've come a long way Scott.
And yes you need to consult an attorney. It's expensive, but so is being nickled and dimed by your ex.
Well, last week my STBEx sent me a spreadsheet of 500+ rows of all the money I owed her going back to 1/1/2021.
My ex did the same. She wanted me to reimburse her for the money she spent on groceries the entire prior year. That was literally her only financial contribution to our family. Comical.
ScottB,
last week my STBEx sent me a spreadsheet of 500+ rows of all the money I owed her going back to 1/1/2021. There were charges of $4 and $10 at amazon and Target as well as larger ones.
Charges of $4 and $10? That does seem petty considering the $3k/month child support. Ridiculous.
We agreed that I would pay 70% and she would pay 30% of kids expenses related to school and healthcare. Well she sent all the bills and then some over. Recognize that we are 50/50 custody, and that she works making over $140k per year. She also fought for child support in the settlement and spousal support which comes to over $3k per month and I owe her money, because I had to buy my business of $6k per month. So she is not hurting by any stretch.
Good for you though if she's making $140k and you still got her 7:3!
And I buy the kids things and haven't sent her a receipt. Shoes, snowboards, ski passes, clothes, etc.
Time to start keeping a spreadsheet. It's annoying, but if she's gonna be petty...
The newly revealed EA is just par for the course. She was friends with the wife, never apologized, and doesn't seem to care at all who she hurts. So that is oddly validating for me. Also, my ex had told me that my uncomfortable feelings about the husband and my STBEx's relationship were BS and accused me of being a bad jealous husband.
Sounds like she wasn't just a one-time offender. I can understand why that would be validating. As hard as it is, maybe it's best in the long run you're "getting out".
I want this over with. But now, it feels like I'm going to be getting hit with nickel and dime expenses for the next 8 years until the kids turn 18. I just want this behind me. I want to move on. It all makes me feel sick.
I hear ya. If it makes you feel any better "at least" you only have 8 years...I see your 8 years and raise you another decade! lol Unfortunately that's just the finances, but other stuff is going to go on our whole lives. Graduations, weddings, grandkids...etc. We'll always have some ties to our Exs.
I'm so angry about all of it. Sorry for the long emotional venting post, I could probably go on for days.
The anger is understandable. Good that you are venting. We're here for you.
The process is tough. Dealing with the loss - it’s not just the Ex, it’s the kids and the family. But I just spent some time going through all the notes on conversations I had with my Ex; reading through what she said and how I reacted. I know that I of course played a part, but the truth is that she is out of her mind. I don’t have another way to describe it.
And I would think that it would help me get through this time easier; and maybe it is. But the process of feeling these feelings, dealing with the sadness and loss, a day at a time - being present to it, it [censored].
I wish there was another way, but I don’t think there is. Through it seems to be the only good option.
And space. Reading the past, I would get so confused through my interactions with her that I couldn’t make sense of anything. For me to keep my head on my shoulders and move forward I need to maintain my space from her. Otherwise I fear I could get lost again.
Scotty B,
I am sorry to hear you are still struggling. You haven't lost your kids and your family. It's just different. You definitely need space from her for your own emotional well being. It gets better my friend you just have to trust the process.
The process is tough. Dealing with the loss - it’s not just the Ex, it’s the kids and the family. But I just spent some time going through all the notes on conversations I had with my Ex; reading through what she said and how I reacted. I know that I of course played a part, but the truth is that she is out of her mind. I don’t have another way to describe it.
And I would think that it would help me get through this time easier; and maybe it is. But the process of feeling these feelings, dealing with the sadness and loss, a day at a time - being present to it, it [censored].
I wish there was another way, but I don’t think there is. Through it seems to be the only good option.
And space. Reading the past, I would get so confused through my interactions with her that I couldn’t make sense of anything. For me to keep my head on my shoulders and move forward I need to maintain my space from her. Otherwise I fear I could get lost again.
Scott, would you even still be open to R if she came back wanting that? If so, why?
I would hope by now that you would have shut that door after all she's done and put you through.
I'm fairly certain I've asked this multiple times and gotten a non-answer or no response entirely so I'll ask again. Scott are you in IC? If you are are you discussing these adjustment issues with your IC?
For me to keep my head on my shoulders and move forward I need to maintain my space from her. Otherwise I fear I could get lost again.
Space sounds wise--I was surprised initially by how much coordination you felt there needed to be between the two of you due to kids' activities. +1 wayfarer's advice for IC to help you adjust. This is a difficult situation to adjust to. You could process this on your own, but you'll experience a longer duration of unnecessary pain than you would with a bit of help. +1 LH's note that your kids are still your family, and that part will never change as long as you're there for them.
Wayfarer: Yes, I've been in IC since 1/2020. I wasn't sure about it for a bit. Seemed expensive and not worth it but over time I feel like its really helped me do some good work in regards to feeling my emotions, its helped me cut myself some slack during these times and recognize that this is a hard time, I might have days when I just can't focus or I might need to take some mental health breaks. Its also helped me listen more to myself and my needs related to rest or sleep or time in nature, etc. And I hope the work will eventually help me think through and rediscover my purpose - I'd say that is something I'm thinking about and working on.
LH: I know I haven't lost the kids - but I have lost time with them, that's what I meant and it hurts. And my family has changed, I miss the feeling of togetherness as a family unit that used to exist. Its different now.
CW: The worst for me is that the kids consistently forget stuff at her house. Every time I have to drive over there or see her I basically start cussing her out in my mind and get pissed off. In time, I'm sure that will go away, but for now its a bummer of a way to start a day (she lives next to their school, so this often happens when I drop them off).
Steve: I think working through your questions is a part of the process for me. As I get space and can look back at things that happened I'm able to more clearly identify the insanity.
The part of me that would take her back gets smaller daily. When I look back I struggle to believe what I dealt with and what I tried to do to hold it together. I'm not sure anyone could have gotten through to me to let it go or for me to actually walk away from her.
Over the past year I have made a list of all the issues I have with her and what she would need to own and work on if she ever changed her mind. Its a long list.
Once the divorce is final, I don't think I will ever allow her back. I signed all of my paperwork - I assume she will sign as soon as she gets it and it will be submitted.
Then I will work diligently to go through my church for an annulment - I think I will be able to get one granted, though its never a sure thing. As each of these things happens it moves me further down the path to a healthier space.
For now, I've got to deal with what is in front of me which is sadness, grieving and mourning. And its not like I'm completely depressed, but I need to experience these emotions fully to move through it. I just wish there was a better faster way to do it. I think everyone just has to go through it at their own pace.
The worst for me is that the kids consistently forget stuff at her house.
I had a talk with my kids and told them they need to be experts at packing and moving the stuff back and forth. They are in charge of their stuff, not me, no their mother. They learned pretty quick not to leave things. If it was schoolwork, it was a big "energy drain" for me to help them go get it. Anything else, had to wait until the next exchange.
Parenting with love and Logic" was a good foundation for my parenting style. The "energy drain" statement to the children was great. Any thing that drained my energy made it extremely difficult do do things they wanted. "I don't know if I will have enough energy to take you to your friends birthday party" or "I don't know if I will have enough energy to allow your friends to spend the night" etc.
They learned pretty quick not to leave things.
Same. Part of our pick-up routine is them confirming they have everything. It's rare I return for something forgotten if they don't remember until I get home--maybe once in six months? The last time I had my son explain to his teacher that he left his textbook at home.
I’ve been doing this for 14 years and I can count on my hands how many times we had to go back for forgotten items. We make sure our daughter has what she needs at both houses and the only time we go back for forgotten items is important must have school stuff
The worst for me is that the kids consistently forget stuff at her house.
I had a talk with my kids and told them they need to be experts at packing and moving the stuff back and forth. They are in charge of their stuff, not me, no their mother. They learned pretty quick not to leave things. If it was schoolwork, it was a big "energy drain" for me to help them go get it. Anything else, had to wait until the next exchange.
Parenting with love and Logic" was a good foundation for my parenting style. The "energy drain" statement to the children was great. Any thing that drained my energy made it extremely difficult do do things they wanted. "I don't know if I will have enough energy to take you to your friends birthday party" or "I don't know if I will have enough energy to allow your friends to spend the night" etc.
When I coached football it was always "you owe me a mile" if you forgot something and needed to borrow.
Parents and coaches have really gotten soft on things like this and it [censored] for parents and kids alike.
In my case me and XW always pack everything and in terms of clothes/equipment I have made sure to have extras. When kids get older they will need to pack themselves.
The switching is still relatively new so you as their parent need to be checking in with them before you drive off when picking them up. They aren't in the habit yet, these things take time. A little hand holding in the beginning here won't hurt anything. The other thing is their mother should be doing the same. Honestly it would be a really big thing if you could suck it up and have a grown up co-parenting conversation about this and get on the same page. The sooner you guys can establish a united front on things the easier it's going to be as the kids get older and the problems get bigger. Now based on my personal experience I know this isn't always possible through no fault of your own but you should at least try.
In my case both my ex and my H's ex were unreliable at best. We couldn't count on our exes to run through the check list before they picked them up or dropped them off so before they left us or if they got dropped off instead we'd run through the list so we could make sure they had everything and if they didn't prioritize pick up/drop off based on the need and how big of a fight one of our exes would make it to come and get it/drop it off.
As your kids aren't babies it would behoove you to have the conversation R2C's spoke about, that they are in charge of their own things and that they need to get better at this as it's going to get more and more complicated as they get older. They will need to transfer more and more things from one house to other: projects, laptops, extracurricular uniforms, phone chargers because they lost the one you or mom bought for that house, library books, etc. And eventually there will come a point where you have to say too bad so sad OR nope, see if mom will bring it to you because I already took you to go pick up something once/that's a want not a need/I've taken you back to get something every time you've been with me for the last 5 times you've been here/mom and I have been taking you to go get things or bringing you things for weeks now, we're done.
As to what ovr said, giving your kids grace with these things doesn't make you or them soft. It makes you understanding. Adults forget things just as often as kids. The difference is they can correct their own mistakes, pay for a solution or make the decision themselves as to if it's something worthwhile or not. But like everything else in parenting there has to be a limit. You just need to find your sweet spot. Until then guide them. Don't make the picking things up about your feelings about seeing your ex, make it about them learning a new routine and new responsibilities. You don't have to disregard your feelings here, but you should consider having them take a back seat. One because maybe it'll make this easier if you're thinking about how the kids are feeling about this and two because while kids are resilient, having to go from one house to the other is hard on them until it's become their new normal fully. Upsetting you because they forgot something is only going to make those big feelings even bigger for those kids. Like all this stuff you have to put their emotional needs before yours, and maybe that's the exact distraction you need.
Well, back on November 11 I signed my documents for the divorce. The following Monday my soon to be ex got Covid and I was blessed to have the kids for 11 days in a row. None of us got it so that was also blessing as we had a Thanksgiving vacation planned.
I’m continuing to work to redecorate the house and that’s going pretty well. I remain in counseling and that is continuing to move along as well. I continue to try and express myself through poetry that I keep to myself, but that acts as an outlet for me and I try to do my best to journal and meditate regularly.
Unfortunately I still feel like I’m in survival mode but I’m not as sad or depressed or frenetic as I was. Against the advice of those here I’ve actually dated a good bit this year and that’s actually giving me a lot of peace of mind and confidence and knowing that if I want to find somebody I can and will and then I don’t really need to hurry.
My ex has begun to do fun things with the kids which admittedly makes me a little jealous, but really excited for the fact she’s getting her crap together. In our relationship I was always the one that had to come up with the fun activities, so admittedly seeing her do a better job than me this month is great for the kids! She’s planning a spring break vacation for them that was the trip I wanted to take them on next year, but again it’s great that she’s actually doing things with them.
My attorneys reached out to Hurst three times to figure out when we’re going to file and has heard nothing back. I told my attorney to lay low for the next two weeks because my ex had been sick.
Business is going really well, and I’m actually having a record year which is incredible. And I’m really looking forward to the upcoming ski season with the kids, if it could just get colder fast!
It’s been approximately one year since she moved out in one year since we started the divorce.
Side note: I’d still love to have a beer with LH to talk about this next chapter. Haha.
Well Scotty B since you are having a record year you can fly me down out of the snow for that beer over the holidays lol.
I think this has been your best update yet. I do caution you into not reading anything into your STBXWs attorney not responding.
Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with you dating as long as you are upfront about where you are at right now. I do think a relationship is out of the question for you right now because I think it’s very important for you to learn to be alone. Like with CW it makes me cringe when I read posters who struggle with being alone for one night.
If you want a good read on what happens when you move too fast read Wolfmans sitch in Surviving D.
I think you need to decide what you want moving forward. Do you want a blended family? Do you want to wait until your kids are grown?
Just keep moving forward Scotty B.
Like with CW it makes me cringe when I read posters who struggle with being alone for one night.
I relish my alone time. I typically only get one weeknight free each week. I am uneasy about being alone on Xmas Eve—the day has emotional weight for me—so I probably will invite acquaintances over.
I did breakup with someone on Friday and am structuring my next two weeks to see friends on nights I’d usually see her. That’s a temporary thing.
My wisdom on blending, having tried it—goals are good, but wait-and-see. If she’s around long enough to meet the kids, and if your families end up meshing, why not? Conversely, if they really don’t get along I wouldn’t dump an amazing partner I dated for 6-12 months (before introducing my kids) or force the blend. Note, there are many ways to combine your lives—a partner can be like extended family (e.g., over on holidays, some vacations, etc.) without moving in and enforcing rules.
Wolfman’s GF became pregnant so he felt he had to force the blend. The forced blend played a big role in his D refusing to isn’t him. It’s a sad development and I feel for him.
Well, back on November 11 I signed my documents for the divorce. The following Monday my soon to be ex got Covid and I was blessed to have the kids for 11 days in a row. None of us got it so that was also blessing as we had a Thanksgiving vacation planned.
I’m continuing to work to redecorate the house and that’s going pretty well. I remain in counseling and that is continuing to move along as well. I continue to try and express myself through poetry that I keep to myself, but that acts as an outlet for me and I try to do my best to journal and meditate regularly.
Great work on the GAL! well done.
Unfortunately I still feel like I’m in survival mode but I’m not as sad or depressed or frenetic as I was. Against the advice of those here I’ve actually dated a good bit this year and that’s actually giving me a lot of peace of mind and confidence and knowing that if I want to find somebody I can and will and then I don’t really need to hurry.
Interesting perspective on "survival" mode. I'd be interested in what your IC has to say about that feeling. Likely still unresolved feelings toward your WAW.
Which brings us to dating. I don't think the advice on not dating has anything to do with pure "dating". However, most people date to try to find a potential partner. Something that would be counter-productive at this point since you are in "survival" mode. Not a healthy place to be and potentially be one half of a couple. IF you can date and truly just date, not try to find a somebody until you've dealt with all of your unresolved feelings related to your MR, then I don't see harm there. However, 99.999999% of people cannot do that. And make the mistake of jumping into a new R with someone too soon. All that does when you haven't done the work on yourself is set you up for a future BD with the new person.
I guess the only thing I take issue with here is the statement "that’s actually giving me a lot of peace of mind and confidence and knowing that if I want to find somebody'. If you had to date in order for this to occur then that tells me that you have more work to do on yourself. Happiness, fulfilment and confidence should come from the internal...not the external. Dating is external.
My ex has begun to do fun things with the kids which admittedly makes me a little jealous, but really excited for the fact she’s getting her crap together. In our relationship I was always the one that had to come up with the fun activities, so admittedly seeing her do a better job than me this month is great for the kids! She’s planning a spring break vacation for them that was the trip I wanted to take them on next year, but again it’s great that she’s actually doing things with them.
This is awesome for your kids! Seeing their parents split isn't easy, that you both are making efforts to help them with the transition is awesome!
Again, the little jealousy tells me that you aren't quite there in regards to unresolved feelings. You should really work through that with your IC.
My attorneys reached out to Hurst three times to figure out when we’re going to file and has heard nothing back. I told my attorney to lay low for the next two weeks because my ex had been sick.
Any reason this hasn't happened? Is this related to more unresolved feelings? Your ex didn't need to be 100% well for the ball to start rolling on this. Your hesitation here again points to some things you haven't dealt with. You owe it to yourself to really work with a good IC to get through that so you can move forward with the next chapter of your life happy and healthy.
Business is going really well, and I’m actually having a record year which is incredible. And I’m really looking forward to the upcoming ski season with the kids, if it could just get colder fast!
Good stuff here! Great work in business and I am anxious for you to be able to unwind with time on the slopes!
It’s been approximately one year since she moved out in one year since we started the divorce.
I remember Scott. I have to be a bit blunt here. I think obviously you've dragged your feet on all of this, and some of it was mistakes early on. I still remember you agreeing to a joint Christmas last year. I think you can look back on that now and realize in hindsight that was a bad idea. Not because the joint Christmas itself wasn't a good idea, but the expectations and feelings you had going on a year ago really stunted your recovery. Here we are a year later and you feel you are in "survival" mode. You are asking your attorneys to "lay low". You feel jealousy when your W plans fun things with the kids. All signs that you have work to do to move past everything healthy and happy with an toward the future! I know you've come a long long way in a year, but some of what you've said here suggests that you still have a ways to go.
One question on that front: If she were to contact you today and want to reconcile, what would you do?
We are all pulling for you!
I’ve realized a sad reality out there, is that in these dating platforms there are men in survival mode seeking validation .
I admit, I felt it was irresponsible and selfish of these men to do that. But it is really the responsibility of us women who have done the work to weed them out. I have expressed my frustration towards men who use OLD as their form of validation, but in the end , I need to weed it out and they are hurting themselves.
As for you Scott, it is harmful to you to land into a relationship while you are in survival mode. But nothing anyone says will stop you.
Sounds like your exW is finding her comfort zone on her own and is able to parent more comfortably. Your kids will certainly benefit from that
I guess the only thing I take issue with here is the statement "that’s actually giving me a lot of peace of mind and confidence and knowing that if I want to find somebody'. If you had to date in order for this to occur then that tells me that you have more work to do on yourself. Happiness, fulfilment and confidence should come from the internal...not the external. Dating is external.
Dating is external. But, if you were told you were unattractive, unsupportive, less than, worthless for a long time, I get that some of the healing is space and time. But another part of it is validation from others. If you’ve been gaslighted, you’re not going to turn that all around yourself. A counselor definitely helps. But so does other support, and in this case it has helped me that when I have dated women have told me the opposite of what my ex used to say to berate me. I’m not saying what anyone else should do, I’m just saying that it has been a part of my healing process.
Again, the little jealousy tells me that you aren't quite there in regards to unresolved feelings. You should really work through that with your IC.
Agreed. I think this will be a life work. I imagine that 20 years from now my ex will still be able to say or do things that create an emotional response. Just like anyone else in the world can if they say the right thing, and she’ll always know how to tweak me. In this case, she is taking them on the vacation that I had planned for me and the kids before I could do it. Not too cool, but I’m glad the kids will get to go. I’ll plan something else.
Any reason this hasn't happened? Is this related to more unresolved feelings? Your ex didn't need to be 100% well for the ball to start rolling on this. Your hesitation here again points to some things you haven't dealt with. You owe it to yourself to really work with a good IC to get through that so you can move forward with the next chapter of your life happy and healthy.
I talked to my IC about this. Things are on a spectrum. I’m doing well but there is a small emotional part of me that still doesn’t want a divorce. Call it 95:5. Its sad - no one wants a divorce. I know logically that it needs to happen. But its still hard and I continue to work through it.
I remember Scott. I have to be a bit blunt here. I think obviously you've dragged your feet on all of this, and some of it was mistakes early on. I still remember you agreeing to a joint Christmas last year. I think you can look back on that now and realize in hindsight that was a bad idea. Not because the joint Christmas itself wasn't a good idea, but the expectations and feelings you had going on a year ago really stunted your recovery. Here we are a year later and you feel you are in "survival" mode. You are asking your attorneys to "lay low". You feel jealousy when your W plans fun things with the kids. All signs that you have work to do to move past everything healthy and happy with an toward the future! I know you've come a long long way in a year, but some of what you've said here suggests that you still have a ways to go.
One question on that front: If she were to contact you today and want to reconcile, what would you do?
We are all pulling for you!
I don’t know Steve, I don’t regret last Christmas. I look back and I think it was good for the kids at that time. I also took every shot at reconciling and I have absolutely no regrets.
Also, I’ve lived life in survival mode, to be fair. Literally as a kid to being an adult. I talk with my IC about that, and I’m working to change that. It has to do with a lack of self-care. The idea that “I’m tough” and can get through anything. I need to give myself space to grieve, heal, and not do it all. To know when to take a time out, and to invest in time with myself. But some days are tough, and I’m still surviving, not living. Recognizing this has been helpful.
And I’m glad to have work to do. I’ll keep working. I’ll continue to move to a healthy place.
I didn’t realize how wounded I was in the marriage. I hate to use buzzwords but there was a lot of emotional abuse thrown at me. She did a lot of things to take away my voice. She tore me down, she didn’t build me up. It wasn’t good. But I continue to work through it.
On reconciliation, I have too much at risk, the divorce needs to go through. After that, if she wanted to discuss reconciling, I would grab coffee – because I think that’s reasonable, but I just don’t see it as a possibility.
This whole time as I’ve been working on myself, she has been blaming me and she seemed to have done much if any work on herself. I continue to grow and she is still angry, accusatory, and blaming. I just don’t want that in my life. The girl I’m dating at the moment is a really good active listener, she’s good at being vulnerable but confident, and she seems to take responsibility for her life. I like those traits.
I’ve realized a sad reality out there, is that in these dating platforms there are men in survival mode seeking validation .
I admit, I felt it was irresponsible and selfish of these men to do that. But it is really the responsibility of us women who have done the work to weed them out. I have expressed my frustration towards men who use OLD as their form of validation, but in the end , I need to weed it out and they are hurting themselves.
As for you Scott, it is harmful to you to land into a relationship while you are in survival mode. But nothing anyone says will stop you.
Sounds like your exW is finding her comfort zone on her own and is able to parent more comfortably. Your kids will certainly benefit from that
I have lived a lot of my life in survival mode. And this isn't really the forum to dig into all of what that means. It started when I was a kid. I got through it after college. Then it started again because of work. Then because of the affair.
I don't think I have to be 100% to date, matter of fact I can firmly state that no one is. I think I can be working through things, and I can have days where I'm surviving. I'm not asking to be saved by someone, I'll do that on my own. This isn't about someone else "fixing" me. Its about understanding my feelings and working through them.
And I don't think I was seeking validation but I got it, and I liked it. I think all of that is fair.
Agreed. I think this will be a life work. I imagine that 20 years from now my ex will still be able to say or do things that create an emotional response. Just like anyone else in the world can if they say the right thing, and she’ll always know how to tweak me. In this case, she is taking them on the vacation that I had planned for me and the kids before I could do it. Not too cool, but I’m glad the kids will get to go. I’ll plan something else.
Scott, I'm only 11yrs out, and my ex would have a hard time finding a button to push unless she hurt our kids, and fortunately, she's not a narcissist. I have several friends divorced for a decade who are in a similar boat. Rest assured there is an end date. Getting over an ex doesn't need to be a lifelong process. With therapy, it could be sooner. (:
I'm not sure what to make of the "anyone else in the world" statement. As a public figure, I've had complete strangers tell me they hate me over decisions I've made, and I didn't assign much emotional weight to that.
As a public figure, I've had complete strangers tell me they hate me over decisions I've made, and I didn't assign much emotional weight to that.
Having sex with a stranger in the woods doesn't make you a public figure Cws lol.
I meant that if my my colleague wanted to get under my skin, he would be able to as well. People get under our skin at times; I may have removed the context from the statement.
Maybe I'm just sensitive - I'm okay with that.
Having sex with a stranger in the woods doesn't make you a public figure Cws lol.
Nor does having sex in the woods with a woman I fancy unmake me one.
Maybe I'm just sensitive - I'm okay with that.
As long as work colleagues aren't frequently or intensely getting under your skin, it's a difference and not an issue IMHO.
Scott, I truly hope you can find the peace you seek. One thing to keep in mind, you mention no one is 100%. I think that is why the divorce rate, especially for 2nd and 3rd marriages, is so high. People think that they need someone else to validate them. And when that inevitably slows down or stops all together, they go out seeking the next "high". This is why being as close to 100% whole individually as you can be is so important. The threat of a future BD with someone new is real when you refuse to do the work. I disagree with much of your self assessment. I think you've been looking for band-aids to put over the gaping wound that is a severed limb. BUT, that is the good news, you get to decide for yourself! Regardless of what some random on an internet forum says.
I meant it when I said you have come a long way. But I also meant it when I alluded to the fact that you still have a ways to go. Good luck.
Quick update: Holidays went fine. Celebrated Christmas separately this year, and it went fine. My daughter cried as she went to bed on Christmas Eve because she was sad it was split - that sucked. I just tried to tell her it was okay to be sad and was with her in it.
That was really the only hiccup.
Haven’t interacted with the ex much at all - which is how it’s really been all year. I bet we’ve spoken two or three times in 2021. All the paperwork has been signed, and I think her attorney is supposed to submit it, but I haven’t been updated on that yet.
This month I’m doing a spiritual retreat next weekend and then two weeks later going to FL for a weekend. End of Feb I’m taking the kids to Park City.
Emotionally I was good during the holidays, a little sad at the situation but I think it’s ok to be sad. Divorce is sad. All and all I’d say things are pretty good.
On the dating front, I think I had mentioned that I had decided to take a break but I was introduced to someone that I’ve been seeing. It’s been fun and I’m trying just to stay in the present with it. Anyhow, that’s about it for now. Happy New Year.
ScottB,
My daughter cried as she went to bed on Christmas Eve because she was sad it was split - that sucked. I just tried to tell her it was okay to be sad and was with her in it.
That's tough. I'm sure it'll get better over time. Glad it went well overall.
This month I’m doing a spiritual retreat next weekend and then two weeks later going to FL for a weekend. End of Feb I’m taking the kids to Park City.
Sounds like some good plans, enjoy!
Emotionally I was good during the holidays, a little sad at the situation but I think it’s ok to be sad. Divorce is sad. All and all I’d say things are pretty good.
Definitely ok to be sad.
On the dating front, I think I had mentioned that I had decided to take a break but I was introduced to someone that I’ve been seeing. It’s been fun and I’m trying just to stay in the present with it. Anyhow, that’s about it for now. Happy New Year.
Good luck w/the new relationship. Makes sense to keep it light and have fun.
Sounds like things are going alright overall considering the situation. I get the sense while you're (understandably) still processing the sadness you're making progress and each year that passes will be better and better.
Keep it up, and keep us posted!
Quick update: Holidays went fine. Celebrated Christmas separately this year, and it went fine. My daughter cried as she went to bed on Christmas Eve because she was sad it was split - that sucked. I just tried to tell her it was okay to be sad and was with her in it.
That's good Scotty B. listen and validate
Haven’t interacted with the ex much at all - which is how it’s really been all year. I bet we’ve spoken two or three times in 2021. All the paperwork has been signed, and I think her attorney is supposed to submit it, but I haven’t been updated on that yet.
That's ok. Your kids are older. Limited contact is good for detachment.
Emotionally I was good during the holidays, a little sad at the situation but I think it’s ok to be sad. Divorce is sad. All and all I’d say things are pretty good.
Not as bad as you thought right?
On the dating front, I think I had mentioned that I had decided to take a break but I was introduced to someone that I’ve been seeing. It’s been fun and I’m trying just to stay in the present with it. Anyhow, that’s about it for now. Happy New Year.
Good stuff. No moving in anytime soon. Enjoy your new life.
Quick update: Holidays went fine. Celebrated Christmas separately this year, and it went fine. My daughter cried as she went to bed on Christmas Eve because she was sad it was split - that sucked. I just tried to tell her it was okay to be sad and was with her in it.
That was really the only hiccup.
To be expected. You handled well. This will become her new normal. She won't necessarily be okay with it ever, but she will tolerate and get used to it. But, this isn't your choice, you didn't make this decision, and your daughter will eventually realize that you were the one that wanted to keep it together. Just keep being the best dad you can be!
Haven’t interacted with the ex much at all - which is how it’s really been all year. I bet we’ve spoken two or three times in 2021. All the paperwork has been signed, and I think her attorney is supposed to submit it, but I haven’t been updated on that yet.
Great. The space will help you heal. Hopefully she remains distant and the interactions will be minor. The person that didn't want the split has the hardest time moving forward, and each time you interact it can set you back. Do your best to keep the interactions to a minimum.
This month I’m doing a spiritual retreat next weekend and then two weeks later going to FL for a weekend. End of Feb I’m taking the kids to Park City.
Nothing but awesomeness here!
Emotionally I was good during the holidays, a little sad at the situation but I think it’s ok to be sad. Divorce is sad. All and all I’d say things are pretty good.
To be expected. See my response above about limited interaction. Time and distance will help.
On the dating front, I think I had mentioned that I had decided to take a break but I was introduced to someone that I’ve been seeing. It’s been fun and I’m trying just to stay in the present with it. Anyhow, that’s about it for now. Happy New Year.
My only advice is to take it slow. Obviously you are over the thick of your sitch so morally I do not see a problem with dating. However, the reason I say to take it slow is because your D is not final. Do not overlook the potential for your STBXW to point to you dating prior to the D as "proof" you wanted the D. The rewriting of history on her end will continue post D. This is why I advise LBSs to wait until the ink is dry on the finalized D before dating. So many cannot do that and regret it later.
SteveLW: Interesting comment on the regrets related to dating. What are the reasons you have seen?
The ones I can think of would be that it ruins a shot at reconciliation (I'm not concerned), the blame game (I have video of her in the back seat of a car with the OM - so she doesn't want to go there), possibly getting somewhere pregnant (an actual concern), some strange impact on the children (also a concern), potentially using it as a bandaid to avoid doing the work (I do feel like I'm doing pretty good, so I'm not too worried about this), jumping into something serious right away (not planning on it - trying to take it slow and just enjoy this time in life).
I 100% understand the concern, and I have the ones I have outlined above, but overall the benefits in regards to happiness and allowing me to move forward outweigh the negatives from my perspective at this time.
I had shut dating down but this just kind of happened.
And to everyone - thanks for the encouragement.
SteveLW: Interesting comment on the regrets related to dating. What are the reasons you have seen?
The ones I can think of would be that it ruins a shot at reconciliation (I'm not concerned), the blame game (I have video of her in the back seat of a car with the OM - so she doesn't want to go there), possibly getting somewhere pregnant (an actual concern), some strange impact on the children (also a concern), potentially using it as a bandaid to avoid doing the work (I do feel like I'm doing pretty good, so I'm not too worried about this), jumping into something serious right away (not planning on it - trying to take it slow and just enjoy this time in life).
I 100% understand the concern, and I have the ones I have outlined above, but overall the benefits in regards to happiness and allowing me to move forward outweigh the negatives from my perspective at this time.
I had shut dating down but this just kind of happened.
And to everyone - thanks for the encouragement.
The reasons were for what I stated. That she could point to it, to your kids, as a "your dad dated before we were D'd, he wanted the D". So unless you are going to whip the video out and show your kids (something I would highly recommend you not do!), it is always best to be able to say, "I was with no one else until we were D'd." Again, it seems innocent but you would not believe the WAS' ability to rewrite history, twist things, and generally take anything you do not do by the boards as an opportunity to bash you.
So yes, I've seen LBSs that have dated too early, and then regretted it when it was held against them. You could put this into the category of "strange impact on the chidren". So that is why I saw take it slow. Be casual. Tell anyone that may be interested that for moral and ethical reasons you want to take it slow and not get serious until the D is finalized. Anyone that is worth it will be willing to wait. Just my opinion. That and $3.99 will get you a Popeye's chicken sandwich.
Well, the date with the court has been set: 10am on 2/28/2022.
I felt sad when I got that from my attorney, and maybe a little disbelief. I let some people in my support network know. I dropped my daughter off at sports and while she had practice I went back and reread the last two years worth of notes that I've made.
After nearly every interaction I had with my STBEx I would write down what happened for two reasons; 1) because she would late change the story, and 2) because I wanted to be able to recall the journey.
As I read everything, it was unbelievable how much of the blame I took for everything. It was also apparent that she is either unhinged or simply a manipulative lunatic. It was hard to comprehend all of the horrible things she said and did to me.
And that timeline didn't include the couple of year from the affair in 2016 through 11/2019.
So it needs to end. Its better for me. My life will be better.
BUT that doesn't change the impact to the kids. Holding my daughter as she cries herself to sleep on Christmas Eve, when she still believes in Santa was heart wrenching - and it doesn't matter if it will get better - it still was.
I literally just had a parent teacher conference and I feel like my son is spiraling - getting his first F ever and I learned he isn't turning in homework. He basically is no longer doing school - the Ex will say it has nothing to do with the divorce, but his change lines up 100% with it.
I feel like my daughter is at least letting it out and processing her emotions and her school and relationships are holding at a level. Today I felt that some of my concerns with my son were confirmed in that he's not showing any visible pain, but he's not doing well and I'm not sure he's even aware of the pain he's going through, I think he has disassociated from it.
He doesn't want to do counseling. We had him going but he wouldn't open up. I'm trying to spend time with him and be there for him, but this feels bigger. It makes me sad.
Well, the date with the court has been set: 10am on 2/28/2022.
Sorry to hear Scotty B but it is the last step in the legal process.
I felt sad when I got that from my attorney, and maybe a little disbelief. I let some people in my support network know. I dropped my daughter off at sports and while she had practice I went back and reread the last two years worth of notes that I've made.
I am surprised at this point there was any disbelief.
As I read everything, it was unbelievable how much of the blame I took for everything.
Of course this is all your fault.
It was also apparent that she is either unhinged or simply a manipulative lunatic.
Can you give examples on why you think this?
It was hard to comprehend all of the horrible things she said and did to me.
Can you give examples on why you think this?
So it needs to end. Its better for me. My life will be better.
This!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT that doesn't change the impact to the kids. Holding my daughter as she cries herself to sleep on Christmas Eve, when she still believes in Santa was heart wrenching - and it doesn't matter if it will get better - it still was.
I had one of these moments after Thanksgiving three years later. Not going to lie they are rough.
I literally just had a parent teacher conference and I feel like my son is spiraling - getting his first F ever and I learned he isn't turning in homework. He basically is no longer doing school - the Ex will say it has nothing to do with the divorce, but his change lines up 100% with it.
So not turning in hiomework is unacceptable. It may be because of the D and it may not be. Teenage boys are lazy and you need to get on top of this right away.
I feel like my daughter is at least letting it out and processing her emotions and her school and relationships are holding at a level. Today I felt that some of my concerns with my son were confirmed in that he's not showing any visible pain, but he's not doing well and I'm not sure he's even aware of the pain he's going through, I think he has disassociated from it.
Talk to him.
He doesn't want to do counseling. We had him going but he wouldn't open up. I'm trying to spend time with him and be there for him, but this feels bigger. It makes me sad.
Divorce is sad. Even our w/exws would agree with that. Be the Rock for him Scotty B. Remember that bringing a starnge woman around at this time will affect him.
Well, the date with the court has been set: 10am on 2/28/2022.
It's tough, but hopefully hopefully you'll find some relief with the D process officially completing.
I felt sad when I got that from my attorney, and maybe a little disbelief.
Completely understandable. It's a sad process & outcome. I remember, even after several months of strength, having a breakdown when reviewing the first formal settlement proposal as well as when I got word the D have officially processes. That, after those down moments, my strength began to build up again.
I let some people in my support network know.
Good! It's so important to have friends and family to lean on. My network has helped me tremendously.
I went back and reread the last two years worth of notes that I've made.
After nearly every interaction I had with my STBEx I would write down what happened for two reasons; 1) because she would late change the story, and 2) because I wanted to be able to recall the journey.
As I read everything, it was unbelievable how much of the blame I took for everything. It was also apparent that she is either unhinged or simply a manipulative lunatic. It was hard to comprehend all of the horrible things she said and did to me.
And that timeline didn't include the couple of year from the affair in 2016 through 11/2019.
So it needs to end. Its better for me. My life will be better.
Must've been insightful to read through the history, to validate your memories of her actions and see the progress you've made throughout the sitch.
BUT that doesn't change the impact to the kids. Holding my daughter as she cries herself to sleep on Christmas Eve, when she still believes in Santa was heart wrenching - and it doesn't matter if it will get better - it still was.
Once we process things ourselves the hardest part is helping the kids process it. I don't think I'll ever forget my then S4 looking out the window and crying saying "I just want to see my mommy on m other's day" (she wanted a weekend to "herself") or the 45 mins he broke down crying himself to sleep after soccer practice, or D3's meltdowns. It's so heartbreaking. Keep being the best dad you can be for them. That's all we can do.
I literally just had a parent teacher conference and I feel like my son is spiraling - getting his first F ever and I learned he isn't turning in homework. He basically is no longer doing school - the Ex will say it has nothing to do with the divorce, but his change lines up 100% with it.
Whether it's related to the D or not, and that's likely a factor, try to stay on top of his education and help him not. Not if STBXW will help/coordinate with that or not, but hopefully.
I feel like my daughter is at least letting it out and processing her emotions and her school and relationships are holding at a level. Today I felt that some of my concerns with my son were confirmed in that he's not showing any visible pain, but he's not doing well and I'm not sure he's even aware of the pain he's going through, I think he has disassociated from it.
He doesn't want to do counseling. We had him going but he wouldn't open up. I'm trying to spend time with him and be there for him, but this feels bigger. It makes me sad.
Good your daughter is letting out her emotions. Keep trying with your son as well. Maybe he will in time. Maybe if you keep him in IC he'll open up there in time. It's tough. Again, just keep being the best dad you can.
Hang in there, ScottB. We're all rooting for you and your kids.
Regarding your S's grades, the D may have been the trigger. Many kids go through divorce without blowing up their grades, and many teens blow up their grades without a divorce. I hope you and your XW are able to work--either independently or together--to discover why your son's choosing this way to act out and what can be done to modify his behavior. At 13 there probably are at least some carrots and sticks (e.g., screen time) that can be effectively applied to him.
I'm so sorry you went through that experience with your D. I initiated my D just after New Years' and we did Easter together, so, fortunately, my kids were well-adjusted when the next Christmas rolled around. It sounds like a really wretched way to spend Christmas Eve.
LH: on the divorce actually happening, maybe disbelief isn't quite the right word. I don't know how to describe the feeling.
On her being unhinged or a lunatic - nah, I'm not going back through it. Bottomline, reading back through everything continues to let me know that its healthiest for it to end and for me to move on.
BL: I agree with everything you wrote.
Ugh. Hurts my heart what you went through with your kids. Those are hard moments.
CW: All and all Christmas was fine, just a little sad being the first one. And it made me very sad that my daughter was crying that night. All I can do is my best to be there for her.
Anyhow, thanks All!
One day you'll look back and realize she did you a favor. And the kids will eventually get through it all. Kids would rather be from a broken home than in a broken home. And with your STBXW the best you could have hoped for a was a toxic intact home.
Onward and upward!
ScottB,
LH: on the divorce actually happening, maybe disbelief isn't quite the right word. I don't know how to describe the feeling.
The word that resonates with me to describe the feeling is "surreal". It's not that I disbelieve my situation - thinking rationally I recognize it's now my life - but occasionally I'll get this out of body feeling like "how am I divorced and a single dad" and it just seems surreal (especially knowing who I am as a man and knowing other much worse situations where couples worked through things). Anyway...I wonder if that word may fit your feelings.
On her being unhinged or a lunatic - nah, I'm not going back through it. Bottomline, reading back through everything continues to let me know that its healthiest for it to end and for me to move on.
One day you'll look back and realize she did you a favor.
I've heard a lot of people say this both online and in real life - LBS's who look back years later with perspective and realize how much better off and happier they are then years prior (even though while in the midst of the situation they can't imagine that). I guess time will tell. I also wonder if they can really know that, or maybe if both parties had been willing to work through it they could've been just as happy in their marriage. But, as is pointed out here, that's not up to us.
On her being unhinged or a lunatic - nah, I'm not going back through it. Bottomline, reading back through everything continues to let me know that its healthiest for it to end and for me to move on.
One day you'll look back and realize she did you a favor.
I've heard a lot of people say this both online and in real life - LBS's who look back years later with perspective and realize how much better off and happier they are then years prior (even though while in the midst of the situation they can't imagine that). I guess time will tell. I also wonder if they can really know that, or maybe if both parties had been willing to work through it they could've been just as happy in their marriage. But, as is pointed out here, that's not up to us.
BL, you make a good point. But the problem is that you cannot control your spouse. In my case, if my spouse had been unwilling to change or work on things, then I can honestly say that I would have been better off D'd than trying to hang on. MR 1.0 was not working for either of us. The LBS sometimes looks pre-BD with rose colored glasses about how wonderful things were, yet in most cases they were pretty miserable themselves. So yes, IF the WAS is willing to change/work on things then maybe it would be hard to know that. However, in a lot of cases the WAS is done and walking away no matter what the LBS does. That is untenable, and eventually the LBS, after having moved forward and found their own happiness then they can look back and say it was for the best.
BL, you make a good point. But the problem is that you cannot control your spouse.
Understood, hence the "But, as is pointed out here, that's not up to us.". Just pointing out it seems the "better off" comments don't necessarily factor in the "what could have been". But completely understand that depends on both parties and we can only control on our actions.
BL for me it was i would look back at specific snapshots of our life. Taking the kids to the beach, going to see our favorite band, sexy Saturdays. All minor parts of our life. Forgetting that basically every day she was biotching, yelling about something.
Those are all faded memories now. There is absolutely zero conflict in my life right now. I have raised my voice to the kids less then a handful of times in over three years. No lie.
The funny thing is my son called me to come over a few Sundays back and I could hear biotching about a phone charger in the background and I had PTSD about it. Seriously it was strong.
I still think my marriage was fixable if she put in the effort but as Steve says the number one thing you learn is you can only control you.
BL, you make a good point. But the problem is that you cannot control your spouse.
Understood, hence the "But, as is pointed out here, that's not up to us.". Just pointing out it seems the "better off" comments don't necessarily factor in the "what could have been". But completely understand that depends on both parties and we can only control on our actions.
Yeah I remembered you saying that as I typed. Just wanted to make sure any other LBSs with obstinate WASs understood that fully. Scott, I believe, can move forward knowing he did all he could to give her every chance to decide to stay and work. I know in my case, if my W had remained a WW and a WAW, I could look back a year on and say I did everything to give her every opportunity to stay and work. If she had not decided to do that I could have moved forward with no regrets. I think the key is that for the LBS the WAS staying and NOT working is not an option. It shouldn't be a "hold this together for as long as we can no matter what!" scenario. MR1.0 is dead. The only future is D or MR2.0. So many LBHs in particular are willing to let their WAW stay and not work, setting up a future new BD.