Picking Up the Pieces After WAW Goes Again #4

[smilie]

This is a continuation of my previous thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2922468&page=1

For anybody following, my previous threads can be found here:

#1 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920063
#2 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920619
#3 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920922
#4 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2921284
#5 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2922468

[smilie]

With regard to earning an income I have dreamed of this for years. I get so far and then have a massive vertigo attack that pushes me back weeks.

I know that all that I say sounds like an excuse, but it's real life for me. I would go out to work in a heartbeat if I could find a position and be reliable as an employee. I have wanted nothing more than this for years.

I want a way out of this and have been looking for so long.

[Traveler]

She also 'dupped' me into getting pregnant a few years back - I believe she was on the pill and having an affair.

This tells me that she was living with this guy when she left the first time and it is likely that she has been seeing him all this time. The lawyer says that the courts would find it hard to believe that she moved in after just one month.

Hi smilie,

Unless you have evidence you haven’t shared here, the idea she’s been seeing him the whole time seems like another fantasy in-line with your other efforts to villainize her and rewrite history.

[smilie]

I am really not trying to villainize - why does everything come across wrong? No I do not have evidence, just my experience in hindsight. That's all. It seems that everything I say is taken completely different to the way it is meant.

I love the woman - for some reason still - she is treating me really badly and I can't even get angry at her. Quite frankly I don't understand that feeling because I should be hateful towards her - I'm not, but I am very disappointed.

I'm sure she has her reasons, but it's not a nice thing that she is doing. Looking back I can see loads of little things that now make sense that I didn't see at the time - that's it.

It's her birthday today (45). It's the first time in 21 years that I haven't wished her happy birthday, bought her a card or got her a present. No doubt she is having a good day.

[Traveler]

I am really not trying to villainize - why does everything come across wrong?

Alleging she was cheating on you for the duration of your relationship without any new evidence is rewriting history. As I said before, LBS do it almost as often as WAS. That's not surprising, as unlike WWS (aliens!), WAS and LBS are both humans. They're both doing their best with the cards dealt to them.

I know it sounds harsh, but I can't be held responsible for my wife's decisions

That doesn't sound harsh, that sounds normal.

she has to face the consequences of those

Maybe, maybe not. You're not responsible for her choice to speed. You're also not a traffic cop. My father's never faced the consequences of a speeding ticket, and he definitely speeds.

whatever they may be, including taking money without knowledge or authorization, stopping paying the rent for a property she is on the tenancy for, cancelling utility bills, etc.

Yes, be selfish! You two are no longer in a relationship. You are competing for limited savings and income. If raising one of these points wins you more savings or maintenance in court than it costs your lawyer to make the point then by all means bring it up. If it doesn't, then let it go. Most things will fall into the "let it go" territory. Typically your final settlement will be close to court guidelines.

[smilie]

Alleging she was cheating on you for the duration of your relationship without any new evidence is rewriting history.

Not for the duration, just since the first time she left me and based on her comment in her statement. You're right though, I'm guessing and still trying to make sense out of the lot of this.

Yes, be selfish! You two are no longer in a relationship

Apart from pensions that amount to a similar amount, there is nothing else. I was just following my lawyers advice on maintenance, but the wife is wiggling out of that one by lying ... still - not rewriting history on that one!

I feel like just jacking the entire thing in, it seems pointless. I have just spent the past few hours responding to a Statement of Truth that she submitted. It is all manipulated truth and a few bits complete fabrication. I cannot believe she as a lawyer would lie on a statement of truth. This entire experience has blown me away - it's an unbelievable nightmare and all because she wanted out. Why did she just not go and leave me alone? Why this?

[Traveler]

I feel like just jacking the entire thing in, it seems pointless. I have just spent the past few hours responding to a Statement of Truth that she submitted.

If you can prove a statement is false and that nets you money then it's not pointless. If you are "Right Fighting" to prove she is wrong then it's pointless. The legal stuff is almost entirely about finances.

Statement: "He was mean to me beyond belief. He always took the last slice of pizza. He wouldn't hold open doors for me. He told me I could take all his money as compensation."

Response: "I did NOT tell her she could take all my money."

I have just spent the past few hours responding to a Statement of Truth that she submitted. I cannot believe she as a lawyer would lie on a statement of truth.

You seem to trust lawyers more than most. I chalked this up to maybe differences between the US and UK. However, polls show only 29% of Americans and 42% of Brits "trust lawyers to tell the truth." Lawyers are humans, like you and me. If a person can get away with a lie, and a lie helps them or their family, people sometimes lie. I see it sometimes when people who are anti-covid-vaccination claimed they were vaccinated to enter a venue without a mask. We don't all value TRUTH as the highest possible virtue.

[Traveler]

It’s admirable that you value honesty. If your ex’s statement of facts prove to be unreliable, the judge will assign less merit to them and more relative merit to your statements.

[smilie]

You seem to trust lawyers more than most. I chalked this up to maybe differences between the US and UK.

This statement worries me. Should I be concerned? I have been trusting my lawyer when she said wait for the courts. I have lost the house I had arranged to rent because of this, still no word from the court.

I have had no dealings with lawyers really, the last one cheated on me and left me for OM....:(

I feel concerned.

It’s admirable that you do value honesty. If she’s making false statements of fact and you can prove that, the judge will likely give your testimony more weight.

The thing is she is pointing to things that she said where "said" a lot of the time.

She says that she hadn't had the intention or ever stolen money, but then again her actions here say the opposite and proveable by bank statements.

Not sure if anything else is worth the bother, just the maintenance claim for me - she's obviously defending against that.

[Traveler]

Smilie, I found my lawyer through a friend so they began with a bit of trust, but I generally trust a new lawyer about as much as a new mechanic, doctor, etc. I expect if I give them “free reign” I’ll get a bill in the thousands, and if I direct the work in the hundreds.

E.g., I was bitten by a possible adult rattle snake. I circle the swollen area with a marker and observe it over time. Two hours later, I’m in cell range, and it hasn’t gotten bigger. A day later it’s only gotten smaller. On Google, a herpetologist suggests a tetanus shot if it’s shrinking. I schedule one for the next morning. A doctor calls and says first they want to assess it and also give me antivenin. The assessment would cost $360. I ask what they’d check. They say they want to see if it’s getting better. I say it has been and describe my marking and observations. I have time lapse photos. They said they’re not a snake expert so would still recommend antivenin to be safe. Cost? $Thousands$. I say I’ll take my chances. They say they didn’t want to give me a tetanus shot for it unless I see them for an assessment and we talk more about this. I say, okay, it sounds like you’re refusing me a tetanus booster. They say that’s not what they meant. They put in the order. They asked a nurse to take a quick look at the swelling. Cost $0. I know some people have Cadillac medical plans where they’d simply go in and get whatever done. I’m cost conscious.

[Traveler]

To be clear, I trust doctors more than Google! I make heavy use of nurse lines and teledocs. My message isn’t to distrust any of these professionals, but if money is a factor you should be the one deciding if a $5,000 repair makes sense for you for your $10,000 vehicle.

[smilie]

Hmm, sounds like I haven't been savvy at all then. I think I've decided that I will put this entire divorce thing on hold until I can concentrate on moving. I'm at the Decree Nisi stage now so I think I can stop it there. I need to be able to think and sort out my living arrangements first.

I've just responded to my lawyer responding to my wife's 'Statement of Truth' as she asked me. So now I shall have to pay her to read through my response. I think she (the lawyer) has also stated that my wife's claim that she has no money left each month (which is clearly fictitious - mind-read yes),even though she is living with a guy with his own house, etc. so she has less outgoings, therefore more residual - will effect any long-term claim. I also think that I won't be able to claim costs as suggested. so I lose again for trusting - lost house, lost money - for what?

This whole thing makes me think what the point of being honest - I always lose out.

[Traveler]

This whole thing makes me think what the point of being honest - I always lose out.

Honesty is practical. Honesty builds trust and credit with others. Discovered lies do the opposite, so dishonest people often have to dedicate brain space to remember each set of lies.

I can't imagine having a disability and losing your home and most of your income.

[Traveler]

As for waiting for your motion or not--a key question is whether the court is likely to offer you significant temporary relief. Your lawyer should be able to tell you your expectations--and how much moving and/or starting a business would affect them--so you can decide whether it makes sense for you to wait or move on with finding a home and income.

[wayfarer]

My two cents here:

CW wasn't saying don't trust your lawyer, he's saying it's unusual to inherently trust someone solely based on their profession. It's admirable, but not wise. You're lawyer seems to be doing the best she can for you. Your ex is a crappy person who happens to be a lawyer. You can find crappy people in every field on the planet. Including non-profit and philanthropic work. There is nothing inherently trustworthy about any adult on the planet. And a job doesn't make a person a better person, it's just a job. The person who inhabits that job is what determines whether they are trustworthy or not.

I worked in the legal field a loooonnngg time. Lawyers come in all shapes and size of ego, intelligence and honorability. I watched a lawyer get served an abuse restraining order for his stbxw in the hall between cases. He was representing a kid who was detained by the state because of abuse from his parents. I watched another lawyer call his intern to schedule pickups during a trial week while representing a mother trying to get her kids back after her abusive ex finally got locked up. He had to get picked up because he had just gotten his 3rd DUI. People are deeply flawed and massively complicated. People are rarely who they seem to be on the surface, and if you're ever lucky enough to find people who are exactly who they say they are hold on to them.

Divorce like almost all civil proceedings are a he said she said. Her statement of truth is her version of the truth. Nothing more. Nothing less. It doesn't make it reality, but as it stands that's her perception. Simple forensic accounting, h3ll just looking at bank transactions, the truth about the money will come out. And we call that impeachable evidence. That makes her look like everything else she's said is a lie. She's an unreliable witness. This is not tragic. It actually bodes really well for you and your case. I'd honestly hope she had bigger lies.

If putting this D on pause is suitable to you financially, and in your best interest I'd say go for it. If it's not, if it's better for you to keep trucking along you should. I'm with CW discuss what both scenarios will mean for you with your lawyer. Staying informed and making decisions with as much information as possible and not making them on emotion is always in your best interest.

[smilie]

Thank you for all of your comments.

My lawyer has already indicated early on that in her opinion I have a good case, although I am a trifle concerned that my stbxw is saying she has no money at the end of each month, that she felt isolated in the relationship and how she text me to end the relationship just in case I tried to kill myself, my medical condition isn't real and I'm a lazy git who didn't take an interest in anything.

As far as the divorce goes, she has indicated that she will not contest it and therefore that process is now straight forward, the expense is coming from the maintenance claim.

----

I heard from my lawyer today with regard to the maintenance hearing. It's scheduled for 7th September. I need to attend court, but the good news is it's over video link. The bad news is that my lawyer has recommended that I have a barrister (@ 2,100gbp).

I wasn't aware that this would be the case and thought that the judge would just look at the case and decide and I certainly didn't expect to have to pay a barrister to represent me. I haven't responded at the moment as I am trying to weigh-up options - I have none. I either have a barrister, or not. My lawyer has said it's very important to have a good barrister.

All I can see though is money coming out of my pension fund and into the hands of the lawyer. I suppose in the end if it doesn't do that, then it will fall into the hands of my stbxw. Costs were supposed to be able to be claimed from her, but seeing as she is saying that she hasn't got any money left at the end of each month - even though she moved into somebody else's already established house, compared to paying out for our needs over the past few years and having a fair bit of surplus, seems strange and a total fabrication. Apparently, she had no other alternative than to rent a car for 1,200gbp a month! seriously? She could have easily borrowed some money from her father (as she always has in the past) and purchased a second-hand car, then paid that off in a few months at that rate. She has also spent all the money that she had taken and I was fully aware of this and the account being closed ... apparently. All she keeps saying is that I did not take an interest in financial matters - again a total fabrication. I am being made out to be a lazy person who did not care about anything. So, what a lovely person she is showing herself to be.

I also have to complete financial forms for the Divorce which I was going to do today, but getting that email about a barrister started me panicking really bad again - which is all I seem to do these days.

I am very embarrassed to say that I am an emotional wreck. I have gone from a confident guy to a gibbering mess. Because of all the stress my neurological thing is making it so that I cannot think properly to organise anything and is the worst it has been since it started in 2014. The good news is that I have reached out to the relevant people (even though I feel disgusted with myself having to do this) who can help with finding housing and things, as I am really having a tough time trying to work it all out. I absolutely hate not being able to think and how it is exacerbated by this level of stress, which I can't seem to control despite doing meditation, mindfulness stuff, etc. I can't even seem to sit down for half hour to watch a programme.

I have been engaging in a few meetup groups which have been very beneficial, but I still can't concentrate on GAL too much as I seem to be on the phone, looking for houses to rent, or dealing with legal stuff. I'm in a house that I can't afford to rent with no money for food, bills, etc. without needing to use my pension fund. It is truly a worrying situation and one that I didn't expect to be in. I have managed to sell a few things that has given me some funds for groceries and fuel for the next two or three weeks.

The weekend job is to complete the divorce financial form - somehow as I haven't got access to all the information I need as it has been removed or discarded. Another one of her strategies perhaps? I also need to come to terms with paying for a barrister, I suppose it's just something I need to do.....

[BL42]

smilie,

I heard from my lawyer today with regard to the maintenance hearing. It's scheduled for 7th September. I need to attend court, but the good news is it's over video link.

Good! Now you have a specific date only 2-3 weeks away so you have a better understanding of the timeline. That must ease your anxiety. And if your L is right, you'll have some financial relief soon.

The bad news is that my lawyer has recommended that I have a barrister (@ 2,100gbp).

I wasn't aware that this would be the case and thought that the judge would just look at the case and decide and I certainly didn't expect to have to pay a barrister to represent me. I haven't responded at the moment as I am trying to weigh-up options - I have none. I either have a barrister, or not. My lawyer has said it's very important to have a good barrister.

I'm not a legal expert in the US let alone the UK - don't even know the difference between a lawyer and a barrister - but if your attorney says it's important to have a barrister I would if I were you. At the very least ask around other Ls for a second opinion or people who have been through this sitch to see if it lines up with your L's advice. You've been married 10+ years and your W makes all the income? If that means spousal maintenance will be significant I'd personally want to be well-represented to make sure my interests are served. Sure you may spend 2100gbp but if you stand to receive significantly more for years it might be worth the ROI.

All I can see though is money coming out of my pension fund and into the hands of the lawyer.

Yes, it's not fun to spend money for an attorney especially for a D you don't want. I had to pay my attorney AND fund a portion of my ExW's attorney fees even though she had the affair and was divorcing me all because of my state's laws. Oh well. It's over now. It is what it is.

I suppose in the end if it doesn't do that, then it will fall into the hands of my stbxw. Costs were supposed to be able to be claimed from her, but seeing as she is saying that she hasn't got any money left at the end of each month - even though she moved into somebody else's already established house, compared to paying out for our needs over the past few years and having a fair bit of surplus, seems strange and a total fabrication. Apparently, she had no other alternative than to rent a car for 1,200gbp a month! seriously? She could have easily borrowed some money from her father (as she always has in the past) and purchased a second-hand car, then paid that off in a few months at that rate. She has also spent all the money that she had taken and I was fully aware of this and the account being closed ... apparently. All she keeps saying is that I did not take an interest in financial matters - again a total fabrication. I am being made out to be a lazy person who did not care about anything. So, what a lovely person she is showing herself to be.

Don't worry about what she's doing financially. If she rents an expensive car, that's on her now. The lawyers and courts will sort out your fair share regardless of what's she's spending her money on.

I also have to complete financial forms for the Divorce which I was going to do today, but getting that email about a barrister started me panicking really bad again - which is all I seem to do these days.

I've been there. After my ExW first filed I waited a few weeks to respond to emails (maybe out of denial) and this year I had a really strong 3-4 months but broke down a bit when I had to read through the first settlement proposal and when the D officially went through, but I'm stronger again now. You just need to keep moving forward.

I am very embarrassed to say that I am an emotional wreck. I have gone from a confident guy to a gibbering mess. Because of all the stress my neurological thing is making it so that I cannot think properly to organise anything and is the worst it has been since it started in 2014. The good news is that I have reached out to the relevant people (even though I feel disgusted with myself having to do this) who can help with finding housing and things, as I am really having a tough time trying to work it all out. I absolutely hate not being able to think and how it is exacerbated by this level of stress, which I can't seem to control despite doing meditation, mindfulness stuff, etc. I can't even seem to sit down for half hour to watch a programme.

Most of us here were an emotional wreck at one point. And there's no shame in reaching out to people for help. However, I'm going to be completely honest (and sorry if this sounds harsh) but...

You need to man up and pull yourself together. Sometimes it's hard to read through your thread as it comes off as a helpless child unable to take care of any aspect of your life. That's not attractive to anyone, let alone your W. I get the sense this is at least a contributing factor to her decision here. Things like internet access, apartment rentals. professional fees...etc. are things adults just need to be able to handle. Make a list of everything. Start with the small stuff and start checking things off one-by-one. As you check off more items your confidence will grow and you can start to tackle the bigger things.

I understand you have a medical condition and I don't pretend to know what that's like to deal with but once the court date / spousal maintenance is settle you need to get a job. Not just because you need it financially, and certainly not to win back your Ex, but also because doing something - anything, even if it's not the ultimate career - will make you feel like you have a purpose and contributing to society and that will build confidence and accomplishment.

I have been engaging in a few meetup groups which have been very beneficial

Good!

but I still can't concentrate on GAL too much as I seem to be on the phone, looking for houses to rent, or dealing with legal stuff. I'm in a house that I can't afford to rent with no money for food, bills, etc. without needing to use my pension fund. It is truly a worrying situation and one that I didn't expect to be in. I have managed to sell a few things that has given me some funds for groceries and fuel for the next two or three weeks.

Even getting just getting the basics of your life together - checking things off the list - is a good start. You'll build confidence in yourself and feel accomplished and that can snow ball.

[Traveler]

Hi Smilie,

I agree with BL42 that you’d only need a small bump in maintenance (e.g., 50gbp/month) over the current proposal to make a 2100gbp barrister worthwhile. Money over time adds up!

Is 2100gbp a good price? Call 2-3 other barristers nearby who either friends recommend or have many good Yelp reviews and compare their estimates.

Should you bother with court? Hopefully you’re going there because their attorney offered $a/month, your attorney countered with $b/month (the amount they expect the court would award) and your stbxw declined. If the difference between $a and $b is $50+/mo, going to court should be a win. I hope with your attorney you’re talking $$$ and odds, and only using vague terms like “good case” with us.

All I can see though is money coming out of my pension fund and into the hands of the lawyer. I suppose in the end if it doesn't do that, then it will fall into the hands of my stbxw.

Worry about $$$ for smiley, not $$$ for attorney vs stbxw. Let them worry about themselves? (:

[Traveler]

PS - This week my car’s Check Engine light was on. Mechanic #1 (2-star Yelp) told me it was an AC problem so I went to an AC shop and they told me my AC was fine. Mechanic #2 (4-star Yelp) told me it was likely a complex problem since a previous mechanic tried and failed and they like to be comprehensive—it would cost $400+ and take two days. Mechanic #3 (Chain) told me it was a faulty sensor and would cost exactly $200 and take 1 day. I googled how to replace the sensor. It cost me $100 and two hours.

I trusted the mechanics but not blindly. It was a typical time vs. effort situation. Many people would’ve been satisfied with either mechanic #2 or mechanic #3.

[smilie]

Most of us here were an emotional wreck at one point. And there's no shame in reaching out to people for help. However, I'm going to be completely honest (and sorry if this sounds harsh) but...

You need to man up and pull yourself together. Sometimes it's hard to read through your thread as it comes off as a helpless child unable to take care of any aspect of your life. That's not attractive to anyone, let alone your W. I get the sense this is at least a contributing factor to her decision here. Things like internet access, apartment rentals. professional fees...etc. are things adults just need to be able to handle. Make a list of everything. Start with the small stuff and start checking things off one-by-one. As you check off more items your confidence will grow and you can start to tackle the bigger things.

Thank you for your honesty. You know, I never used to come across like that but I do feel a bit lost as the wife had all the control, has taken all the information and funds and kept springing on surprise after surprise. My self-esteem has gone down the pan with this illness and subsequently her leaving the way she did. I think the worst part was that I didn't ever expect the she would do such awful things. It has got to me emotionally and that's probably how I come across when I'm an emotional wreck and panicking all the time! Sorry. Who would ever believe I used to be an IT Manager for a legal firm and make decisions all day long and was really confident. I'm just a shadow of that now and it is embarrassing.

I am getting things sorted. Internet was a worry and that's sorted and there's a couple of houses I'm interested in in the next town from here that used to be our regular place to go when we lived in our previous property. Called the agents today, but half day Saturday. I drive down to have a look at them anyway just to get an idea

I understand you have a medical condition and I don't pretend to know what that's like to deal with but once the court date / spousal maintenance is settle you need to get a job. Not just because you need it financially, and certainly not to win back your Ex, but also because doing something - anything, even if it's not the ultimate career - will make you feel like you have a purpose and contributing to society and that will build confidence and accomplishment.

I agree that would be both beneficial and ideal! However, there's the rub! I have been wanting to work now for the past 5+ years, but this ruddy condition won't let me hold a traditional type employment. I try to explain this to people as everybody says the same thing - and I agree - but I would be at work for less than a few hours before I had to go and then be off for a day or so. I would be at work 50% of the time at best. I need something that's not a traditional job that I can do my own hours. I've always fancied running a coffee shop, but that's not easy these days or cheap. The wife and I (well, me really) have had some ideas over the past few years to get to bring in an alternate income, but nothing really hit off, as explained before that I was waiting to her to do stuff together like she said she wanted. But I get started, have a vertigo attack and will be out of action for a fair few weeks. It is so very frustrating. I have been looking around for a suitable position, but if it keeps to traditional times, involves sitting at a desk, looking down (or up), looking at a PC, needing to wear reading glasses, bending over, lifting stuff or walking around a lot, then count me out ... especially if it's in a supermarket as that's the worst environment ever! I really miss my job, I was an IT Manager, then an IT Consultant. I'll have to get some ideas, but I would prefer to work for myself. In her statement of truth the wife keeps saying about how I could do gardening or window cleaning - she knows full well I can't as just doing these at home is a chore and requires an hour or two rest in between to stop spinning - especially mowing the lawn. Not excuses, although I can see why people would think that they were. I was looking at a whole lot of "live-in" jobs to try to kill two birds with one stone (job and housing), but they always need skilled people - gardeners with horticultural qualifications, carers, etc.

I really have no ideas and both the wife and I have been trying to think about something for years - she was even in agreement that it would be almost impossible for me to hold down a job ... now she's changed her mind.

If anybody has any idea though that I haven't thought of, please share.

(P.S. It's taken me 1.5 hours to type this reply for regular breaks).

[smilie]

Hello.

I agree with BL42 that you’d only need a small bump in maintenance (e.g., 50gbp/month) over the current proposal to make a 2100gbp barrister worthwhile. Money over time adds up!

True.

Is 2100gbp a good price? Call 2-3 other barristers nearby who either friends recommend or have many good Yelp reviews and compare their estimates.

My Lawyer gave me a few choices and I looked their credentials up. They varied from 1,500 - 2,100 - the highest price one being the best for my particular case.

Should you bother with court? Hopefully you’re going there because their attorney offered $a/month, your attorney countered with $b/month (the amount they expect the court would award) and your stbxw declined.

Yes, that's right. Me: 2,079/mnth, Her: 600/mnth. At this stage I'd be happy with just covering the bills let alone anything else at around 1,600.

If the difference between $a and $b is $50+/mo, going to court should be a win. I hope with your attorney you’re talking $$$ and odds, and only using vague terms like “good case” with us.

No, not really. I have asked the question and she says that I have a very good case but can't guarantee anything.

Worry about $$$ for smiley, not $$$ for attorney vs stbxw. Let them worry about themselves? (:

Yeah, it's just that a friend of mine keep saying that lawyers will suck me dry and that's how it feels. However he doesn't offer any other comment which can make it frustrating as he basically gives me the impression of "don't do that", but then not offering any other viewpoint.

About your mechanics - I had the same problem a few years back with my wheel sensor. Got quoted over £100 ($140) to replace it. Got one online for £10 ($14?) and did it myself

[Traveler]

My Lawyer gave me a few choices and I looked their credentials up. They varied from 1,500 - 2,100 - the highest price one being the best for my particular case.

Smilie, I would compare the rates and reviews of barristers you found on Yelp and from friends or acquaintances. Only comparing barristers your lawyer suggests is putting a lot of trust in them.

[SteveLW]

Lawyers certainly are in it to make money. But that doesn't mean that aren't valuable or necessary. It's like having car trouble. You can claim a mechanic is too expensive, but you still need one

Unfortunately, D is a legal process and you need legal expertise to navigate it.

[smilie]

Yesterday:

I'm waiting for a reply from my lawyer. She sent me an email but I have so many questions it would be quicker to call.

In her email she said the it was the case that the judge looked at it, but then he decided for a hearing. So that wasn't an expected outcome.

She also stated: "I cannot give you a guarantee of an outcome, but I do consider it is very likely the court will make an order that stbxw pay you some level of interim maintenance, on the basis that her income has maintained you both for the last 6/7 years, and you are unable to work right now."

She also said: "The reason mediation wasn’t appropriate in your situation was due to the urgency of your situation - even if Teresa didn’t engage in mediation, it may have delayed your application by a month or more. The court might suggest you attend mediation after an interim order has been made"

-----

Today:

My lawyer replied but hasn't got capacity for telephone appointments today, however I need to make a decision on the barrister as she is going to inform my wife's lawyer today about the hearing and it is possible that my wife would choose the barrister that was recommended. So I had no choice but to go with the recommended barrister that can best fight my corner.

I have done loads of research on court appointed barristers and pro-bono, but they require a minimum of 3 weeks before the court hearing. Mine is in 2 weeks, so there was no alternative. Many other ones are trainee's and won't be able to support my case strongly enough, I feel. Timescales were too long also.

I have also realised that the hearing is by video link, so I will be at home alone, so there's another personal challenge.

[SteveLW]

Smilie i really do not think your fixation on the court procedures, and awaiting rulings and decisions is healthy. I feel like you are stuck while you wait and not really GAL, self improving and detaching. I know finances are very stressful, but you have to keep moving forward.

[wayfarer]

I'm with Steve on this. You have a tendency to hyper-fixate on the problems with out any fixed sight on things that are going right and what your next logical step is.

You will get an interim order. She was the bread winner. That's how this works. This is a good thing. You need this to fix a budget and move forward. 2 weeks is a great time line. In one month's time this will be settled you won't be biting your nails over finances. Things may still be a bit tight, but at least you'll have roof and you won't starve.

Next if the barrister situation is a take what you can get because you have a hearing in 2 weeks kind of situation so be it. Is there some law against you switching barristers later? If this one doesn't work out long term. Oh well. But you need some one now. There's some one available. This is also a good thing. You aren't being left in the wind to dangle. It's not ideal but it's not a bad thing either.

No mediation will not work right now. She's 100% correct on that. There's a good chance mediation won't work once the court orders it either. If you can't come to an agreement on anything just the two of you mediation has a snowball's chance in hell of working. In my personal opinion mediation is best suited for two parties who aren't particularly contentious but aren't really solid on how all this work or what the division of assets and liabilities should look like. Based on everything your saying it sounds like stbxw is going to drag this out and fight tooth and nail for literally everything. You will like have to resolve almost everything through a hearing. Which is expensive and unfortunate but it's likely the reality here. In most states if the more monied spouse drags things out like that they are required to pay a portion if not all of the less monied spouse's legal fees. Is that a thing over there for you guys?

Last, smilie, everyone's hearings are by video now. There are 18 months worth of jury trial back ups in most states for civil and criminal proceedings. Some are still not hearing jury trials over here. We have literally thrown out speedy trial Constitutional law because we had to. A lot of people have been working by video, teaching by video, going to school by video, doing interview, taking meetings, having happy hours by video, seeing their family members by video. People are buying homes by video at this point. I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to invalidate your feelings here. But we've all been doing this well over a year. It looks like in the US it'll likely be like 2 years in some places. Most places if we keep going the way we're going. This isn't a people have it worse conversation. This is a you're not special smilie conversation. I understand that it's hard. And I'm sure it's lending to your anxiety. But if you have the internet situation worked out you're not going to be alone. Everyone who is normally at that hearing will be there. There are breakout room options if necessary for clients and their lawyers. Most however like to communicate in real time via text. I'm sorry if you feel lonely, but this is what is happening every where to everyone. It don't know that you get to feel sorry for yourself when literally everyone is subjected to the same exact thing. I'm the one born with American exceptionalism and it's really very clear to me, my hardships with this pandemic are minimal at best. Every minor inconvenience I have to deal with every single other person in a 1st world country is dealing with too.

You have to stop tunneling in on what's wrong with a situation and try to take a 30,000 ft (9000 m) view on things in your life. Everything is dark and light. And somethings in there are just neutral. You need to find the neutral space and try to see the light. Existing in the darkness will only pull you down further. And this isn't toxic positivity. This is a person with chronic depression on several hundred mgs of antidepressants daily telling you this is a cycle, a thought pattern. And you can keep feeding the beast. Or you can try to claw your way out.

[smilie]

You have a tendency to hyper-fixate on the problems with out any fixed sight on things that are going right and what your next logical step is

Maybe, but I really can't see that anything is going right - almost every day something else happens that makes things worse.

Steve says about detaching - I've been trying but how the h3ll do I do that? How can one detach from the problems? I've certainly managed to detach myself from my wife in the context of wanting her back and in fact, I just want her to leave me alone. I never thought I would ever feel like that towards her, but that's how much she has changed - or shown her real self.

...you can keep feeding the beast. Or you can try to claw your way out.

I'm trying not to feed the beast and I'm certainly doing the clawing, that's for sure. I'm doing my damndess with the resources that I have.

The only pills I'm on is ones that {try} to help me sleep. They are trying to put me on anti-depressants but I'm not sure if I want to do this or not or whether they would be beneficial, based on my experience with them previously. The ones they are looking to put me on are better for anxiety and I have been on those before, but the concern is the effects on my neurological condition and the fact that medication of any type, makes my body extremely salty, making me gag as my skin, saliva, gums, etc goes really salty, smooth and sore - only ever since having this condition.

I have been worried about taking an SSRI. However, during my research, I found a medical paper that SSRI's can have a positive effect on Vestibular Migraine - why have I never been told this? So I am now wondering whether or not this will tackle both issues - Anxiety & VM! That would be brilliant if it did.

Every day since my wife left I shake. Each time something happens or there is something to worry about, I shake. Opening a letter, I shake. Even typing this and concentrating on something else, I shake. It will not stop.

I can't meet the rent after this month. I have a dental hygenist appointment tomorrow morning that my dental claim money was supposed to pay for, but seeing that is is now been taken I have to use my pension money, likewise for food and lawyers bills. The bit that is infuriating, is that all these legal bills would have paid rent somewhere else for an entire year already.

So this is why I worry - I have always been a worrier, but not like this. Being fixated on things is an interesting concept. I suppose this could be classed as fixation, but isn't this just being worried about something rather than being fixated?

My entire life has been thrust into instablility and I am doing what I can, well I think I am. I'm not sitting around moping or feeling sorry for myself, I'm actively trying to sort things out, even though I don't want to face them. I have spent days on the phone to various people trying to find information, days on the computer trying to get information for the divorce forms also and I have also been sorting things out in the house to pack up, throw away or sell. I have been looking for places to live, viewed 2 properties a couple of days ago and pledged my interest for one (even though it's not exactly what I really want, but better than a one-bed flat). I have just sold some stuff that has given me some food and fuel money that I no longer needed and there is some more stuff that I can get rid of also that I shall put up for sale by the weekend.

As far as GAL is concerned I have been on meetup groups online, meeting people a couple of days a week for a coffee and yes I could be doing more. This is the hardest thing ever, as I'm not sure what else to do as I really can't concentrate! How is it possible to concentrate on anything or have the time to do anything when I have so much to do already with this divorce stuff? It takes me forever, due to the fact I can't sit at my PC too long, although the past couple of days my neck hasn't been as bad as it usually is, but the tinnitus is off the scale.

Somebody has asked me if I could look at making a website for them, so that's something to focus on - I'm not a web developer but I do dabble, but they just want something simple which I could possibly do.

I have been meditating, forcing myself to watch and listen to podcasts and interviews in the evenings - things I used to love doing, but no longer do. I've been cooking meals (Beef stew yesterday in the slow cooker). I can't bring myself to watch a film or TV programme all at once though as I can't concentrate on it because of the anxiety - I have never experienced this is my entire life like this and it is very limiting and makes it dreadfully difficult.

GAL - The original plan was to exercise in the morning and do some study later in the day, socialise and build a social network - off and online, etc. Over the weeks I have had so much stress to deal with with the wife keeping pulling payments and her actions that there has always been something to deal with and it has stressed me no end - so this is where detachment comes in so that she can't push my buttons, I guess?

I'm doing the online networking, offline seems a bit harder. I met a friend for a chat last week and one this morning, which was nice and a small group on Sundays talking about other subjects. I also have a coffee arranged on Friday with a guy from a man's support group.

I do run out of time each day though and now the nights are pulling in the day's are shorter, going out later is not so enjoyable in the cold and dark.

The garden also needs addressing, so I'll need to do a bit of that each day over the next week or 2, that may take my mind of the court stuff and get the garden looking tidier and ready for moving. I have arranged for somebody to be here to have a chat afterwards, but they can't be in the room during the court appearance - I called the court to get the information yesterday as I was wondering about doing it from somewhere else, rather than at home.

I am aware that everything is by video link. All I was saying that in the in-person hearings, I would be there with people around me and could have even had a Mckenzie Friend for support. All I was referring to was that I will be on my own in a room without in-person support, which will feel horrible I'm sure.

I agree about taking a different perspective and viewing the big picture. All I see is my available funds going down and not having anything left to support my life past a few months. I can't change that and will know in 2 weeks exactly what the position is and there's nothing further I can do until then, apart from pay my lawyers invoices and hope the court rules some kind of maintenance and recovery of costs due to my wife not being open to agreement outside of court. This is what has been applied for.

From her point of view, I am now probably just an inconvenience that needs to be got rid of. How awful.

Anyway, yes it's difficult. I'm in a different place to what I was a few weeks back though, even if you guys can't see that (that was bad), but I'm still very worried. I desperately want to get a place to call home again, but even with this house I saw my lawyer has requested I ask the agent wait until the court case - I have, so that will be the second house I'll lose then. She has my best interests at heart I think even though it feels like she is shafting me - she charges so much!

One final note. Somebody told me today that it is probably a good thing that I haven't found anywhere to live and used my pension money to pay the annual rent up front. Not doing that keeps me in a position where I am technically homeless as my income does not pay the rent and if I were to rent a house (at a struggle too) the courts may see me as not technically homeless and able to financially support myself (which would give the wrong impression because I can't for a length of time) - so that makes a good argument.

I would be seriously open to any suggestions on detachment and GAL. I spend all the time doing other stuff. This divorce financial form is immense and I can't find all the information as my wife has removed it (pension policies, tax stuff, etc), I have my other pension has sent me a huge form as they are changing something and I have to fill in a bank mandate for my new phone/internet - for other people these are simple tasks, for me it takes ages - days sometimes. All I am saying is that how do I get the time? I work much slower than I used to and most people, due to not being able to think fast anymore (it's taken nearly 2 hours just to type this).

I have read the detachment thread and I just can't seem to find the gem hidden anywhere. I suppose the idea of finding the "Neutral Space" is the key and doing guided meditation should help that.

P.S. Next time I'm not typing as much Lol! It's just that I think I need to keep explaining things because it comes across that people have got the wrong idea about me - perhaps it's the other way round though and they haven't and it's me that has! Who knows.

[wayfarer]

I'm not a doctor but you 100% have depression and chronic anxiety. You need medication and CBT. I mean that in the kindest terms possible. Take the medication they want you to try see what happens. Also there are dozens of anti-depressant. It's whole different world from the days when Prozac and lithium were the only options. The worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work and you try another until you find one that works for you and with your medical issues.

I went through several meds until I found what works for me. Most people do. The one I'm currently on actually exacerbates anxiety. But my anxiety is manageable without medication. My depression is not. I just have to be careful with caffeine. It has an upper in it which is why it makes anxiety worse. But that upper is what makes me get out of bed in the morning. And this one is weight neutral which is a blessing for me because I yoyo so bad with other issues I don't need any help from my meds. It's not perfect but it's the best fit. And I'm happy for it.

Worrying vs fixation. Worrying allows you to function and process, and do what every you need to do with out consuming you. Fixation is consuming. Untreated anxiety disorders generally don't allow people to worry they only fixate. Most people I know who consider themselves worriers, myself included, aren't actually life long worriers. They have a generalized anxiety disorder. Some anxiety is deeply internal. Totally self focused. They think every one hates them. They don't think they can do anything right. Some anxiety is external. The sky is falling, Chicken Little, kind of things. Some anxiety is a super fun grab bag of both. I think it's safe to assume you have the grab bag, buddy. It's normal to be worried when things are so uncertain. But there are little things I know Steve and I aren't the only ones noticing that point to you fixating instead of just the run of the mill anxiety over a huge life change like this.

Just a few other notes:

-Your GAL sounds really good considering. I'm proud of you for that.

-Very few people get out of a divorce rich. Most people take a pretty hard monetary hit. But money is temporary. In a year or two you'll be settled and none of this will matter the way it matters right now.

-Good lawyers aren't cheap. Cheap lawyers aren't good.

-Anything that makes you look desperate and like she basically robbed you and left you homeless and flailing will help you with that interim order. It is a good thing that you haven't found a place yet. There are silver linings here. You have to learn to hold on to them.

-Please consider the 5-5-5 rule. When you're struggling, worrying, feeling a little low for yourself ask yourself: will this matter in 5 days? 5 months? 5 years? If the answer is no then don't spend more than 5 mins worrying about it. With my teenagers I drop that down to 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks. (Teenage girls a just a dream, everyone should have one.) It's a really easy way to give yourself perspective and to keep yourself in check.

- Last about the court thing. Court is incredibly formal. Even more so over there. There's very little room for warm fuzzies or even real emotional support. Being able to talk to a friend afterwards will be really no different than if you were in person.

[Ready2Change]

Every day since my wife left I shake. Each time something happens or there is something to worry about, I shake. Opening a letter, I shake. Even typing this and concentrating on something else, I shake. It will not stop.

I am sorry this is happening to you. Going through my divorce was more painful than the pain I felt when my brother passed away. During my healing, I learned that our bodies react to our thoughts. We may have repressed emotions, that involuntarily come out. Every time we think about something, we relive it and cause a reaction.

I learned to compartmentalize things. Finding balance in the different parts of my life. Controlling my thoughts instead of letting them control me. I would find time to let my emotions out. We are emotional beings and they need to come out. Finding ways to relief the stress is important as well.

Can you schedule time to just be, no thinking? Watching the sunset from a park, or feeding birds or watching children play at a park? Walking the streets and just observing? Does the shaking stop?

Same thing for crying? Can you find time to just let the tears flow? When you stop, does the shaking lessen or stop?


Just throwing some ideas out there for you to consider.

[SteveLW]

From her point of view, I am now probably just an inconvenience that needs to be got rid of. How awful.

smile this is not detachment. Detachment is not caring what she says, thinks, or does. It isn't caring what her POV is let alone thinking that it is awful. I know you think you're detached, and I know you think you don't want her back. But it is incongruent to say you don't want her back, and you want her to leave you alone, but that it is awful that she sees you as an inconvenience.

As far as typing so much. Please keep it up! This is what this board is for. I feel like, other than the contradiction on detachment, that was one of your best most recent do posts.

Finally, when the worry and anxiety hit remember that this too shall pass. In a year all this stuff you're worrying about will be meaningless.

[smilie]

Wayfarer: How is it that everything you say makes complete sense and is delivered in such a way that not only factual, but compassionate? Thank you. I didn't know that you were on anti-depressants - I'm sorry that you have had to endure all of this type of thing also. I am more angry that my stbxw has driven me to pills than I am at her leaving me. I despise myself for being this emotionally weak and if I had a regular income that supported me, then I doubt things would be this bad as the majority of my worries are financial and of feeling helpless (& useless).

Medication: I was talking with the Mental Health Team this morning as my doctor wanted assurance from them that the tablets he was prescribing were the right ones and wouldn't effect my condition. They said "Just give them a go", I said that I had done some research and found a medical paper that indicated that an SSRI could have a positive effect on Vestibular Migraine.

So I will be on Citalopram (Celexa) 10mg (low dose to start). Should take about 6 weeks to start having an effect on my brain. I hope it won't exacerbate VM symptoms.

I don't feel depressed though, just worried - perhaps it's all part of it.

Worry & Fixation: I think that the majority of my worry and anxiety is situational and that I have not got any control over it due to not having an income. It's the situation that I am in that I constantly try to find a solution to - so that's the fixation part probably. I have always been like this at work if I had a solution to find to an issue - it keeps going around in my head until I can find a way out. I think the only way out of this one is through.

I needed to go to the dental hygienist this morning. I parked just outside town along the road where we lived and walked into town. I have always done this, but this time it was hell. Every single memory from when we lived there and when she worked there, came bombing straight back into my mind. The time when she hurt her toe kicking a conker while we were walking down the lane to the pub, how we used to walk and hold hands walking everywhere and our strolls down to the shop, how I used to wait for her outside work sometimes for lunch, the shops we used to go in, the restaurants we used to go to, the routes we used to walk. All those "videos" played almost all together in my head so vividly - talk about torment.

For a few seconds I could imagine that everything was ok and I was just walking to meet the wife and I seemed to go back in time for just a few seconds and think that I was in a previous time - but I wasn't.

By the time I got to the dentist tears were welling up in my eyes and I could hardly speak. The more important thing is I couldn't walk properly all the way there & back to the car as this stress affects the way my body works I am finding and everything I see looks so strange - not real - dissociated.

GAL: I wish that I could do more. I wish that I could spend some time doing my Chi Gong course I brought last year. I wish that I could start fleshing out my business idea. It's the time though and I have to do some more work on the legal form - I shall put aside another hour after this. I have just phoned to get a statement of my state pension, that took a while and have just

Divorce/Money: I have no means of earning at the moment, so where will that leave me? Whereas if I didn't have this legal expense I would have been OK for a couple of years to work something out - this is just for the interim maintenance case, the divorce is only just getting to the financial bit. It's crazy, especially when assets are low, but I reckon she has hidden a lot of her financial stuff as this has been planned.

Please consider the 5-5-5 rule.

I shall give that a go. The hard bit is stopping the worry.

Not looking forward to the court thing. A friend has offered to be here with me for a cup of tea afterwards

[smilie]

I am sorry this is happening to you. Going through my divorce was more painful than the pain I felt when my brother passed away.

I concur and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. This is definitely much more painful than when my father got killed in a head-on with an 18m truck. I wasn't that close to him, but he pain for this is much worse. I can't do too much until I know the outcome of the court hearing, so I shall take wayfarers advice here and find some neutral space somehow.

During my healing, I learned that our bodies react to our thoughts. We may have repressed emotions, that involuntarily come out. Every time we think about something, we relive it and cause a reaction.

Yes they do. I have learned that too by studying Sydney Banks and Ekharte Tolle stuff in the past. The putting it to action seems like the challenge when you haven't practiced it beforehand enough and you're in the thick of it. I think a lot of my thoughts are unconscious as I wake up like it and then can't go back to sleep, then the conscious thoughts start to 'top them up' throughout the day.

I wish that I could pay for IC, as I can't get it on the state as they reckon that I'm too anxious. But my feeling is that from the start I have requested IC and not being put forward to it and waiting so long (3 months) has made me more anxious, so it seems to not makes sense.

I learned to compartmentalize things. Finding balance in the different parts of my life. Controlling my thoughts instead of letting them control me. I would find time to let my emotions out. We are emotional beings and they need to come out. Finding ways to relief the stress is important as well.

Wow! Having done a search on compartmentalizing thoughts. I didn't know this was actually a strategy and thought that people just said it's what they did. I shall have a read of the stuff I've found.

Can you schedule time to just be, no thinking? Watching the sunset from a park, or feeding birds or watching children play at a park? Walking the streets and just observing? Does the shaking stop?

For the first two days after my wife left, I started meditating, making that space. It was working fairly well. I was crying a lot then. As soon as she sent me the text to say she had somebody else and wouldn't be coming back, that's when the shaking started and the crying stopped.

I still do guided meditation, listen to hypnosis audios and sit in the quiet sometimes, but I can't stand the silence anymore. Can't bare sitting in the garden on the bench - I have always loved doing that, for years, now it's intolerable to think about it. I can't sit still even if I force myself. I used to go to the park, watch the ducks, go for a walk, have a chat with a couple who sit in their front garden, read a book, think, make lists of plans, go to the coffee shop to think. I was making plans to move and it all stopped as it all weighs on this court case. Then I felt stuck.

I still do a lot of that stuff though, but not so often as I am so busy sorting out paperwork, emails, phone calls (doctors, pension companies, mental health people & estate agents today - 4 hours!), etc. The weather is also sadly getting colder so less people about to chat to - apart from the local homeless people in the park. I chat to them as they sometimes need to talk to somebody too. I haven't actually tried to schedule any of these things though and your comment has helped me see that I have just been reacting to things, and feelings, rather than create a proper schedule to do stuff - so thank you for that.

However.....The shaking only seems to calm down when I hold a decent meaningful conversation, it never stops completely though, which is annoying and walking has been horrible since my wife left as I don;t feel in control of my legs - they feel so weak and wobbly.

Same thing for crying? Can you find time to just let the tears flow? When you stop, does the shaking lessen or stop?

Crying is a strange one. At the start when she left, I couldn't stop. Since I've known the truth about what she has done, I can't start and if I do it's unexpected and short-lived, comes from nowhere and can be embarrassing, like today at the dentist. Tried clearing my mind while having my teeth cleaned, but the tears dribbled out of the corner of my eyes. But no, the shaking doesn't stop afterwards, but then I haven't really sat and felt like having a good cry.

Just throwing some ideas out there for you to consider.

Yes thank you. I am certainly interested in the compartmentalization, now that I know it's a thing. I have also learned while replying that I should just possibly start with one thing and focus on that - spend time to sit and clear my mind for 5 or 10 minutes and extend it from there.

I can't believe that you guys have had to go through this stuff and probably with kids too. It must have been an absolute nightmare! But you're here and survived, so I should also, eh? (I won't die...).

Thank you
S,

[Ready2Change]

I can't believe that you guys have had to go through this stuff and probably with kids too. It must have been an absolute nightmare! But you're here and survived, so I should also, eh? (I won't die...).

We slayed the dragon. Be a dragon slayer. We are more than surviving, we are thriving.

Some of my beliefs were reinforces while others were challenged and changed. The skills I learned during my divorce were extremely helpful while parenting as well.


I know you desire IC. You may want to do some research into EMDR therapy and see if that is something that may benefit you. I know MWD spoke of Solution-Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT).

There are many levels to the healing that needs to happen. Some can happen now and others may need to happen in the future.

Do as many enjoyable things this weekend as you can.

R2C

[Traveler]

The weather is also sadly getting colder so less people about to chat to - apart from the local homeless people in the park. I chat to them as they sometimes need to talk to somebody too.

I have a friend who chats with the homeless and helps them weekly--e.g., offering books, cardboard, and blankets, helping them find odd jobs like gardening, and scaring off the occasional dangerous one. Looking at an uncertain financial future, you can perhaps relate to how normal people can get there. She does carry a knife on her and pulls it more than once a year, so exercise some caution as she does, but it's definitely a place where you can be useful, helpful, and do some meaningful good.

I can't believe that you guys have had to go through this stuff and probably with kids too. It must have been an absolute nightmare! But you're here and survived, so I should also, eh? (I won't die...).

Well, I was never as shaky as you describe--every situation has commonalities but is also unique. Yes, breakups are almost always h-e-double-hockey-sticks. Kids make it harder and easier. It was an extra impetus to be a WAS from my XW. I love my kids, they love me, and I will always be their protector. I am never useless or helpless because they need me. Like Ready2Change, I didn't "survive" divorce. Free of my spouse, I woke up, and returned to living the life I did before marriage adventuring and traveling the country. That's been true as the LBS in a long-term relationship, too.

[smilie]

It's the court hearing today for maintenance and I haven't slept in 3 days. I am beat, knackered and stressed beyond belief. But at least today I will know the outcome of maintenance and hopefully be able to plan a way forward from there. Everything is virtual and I have a meeting with the barrister at 1pm and the hearing is at 2pm.

I can't believe it's taken this long to get to this point. This was supposed to happen in the last week of June/first week of July.

My health has really declined over the past few weeks due to the effects of the stress of my neurological condition.

At least I will know by this afternoon where I stand.

[BL42]

smilie,

Glad to hear your court hearing is today - finally having a result on the maintenance will bring you some financial relief and much-needed some peace of mind.

Are you able to get a prescription for a sleeping pill, or at least take nighttime Benadryl to help with the sleepless nights?

[smilie]

So the court hearing didn't go well and basically I have only been awarded 800/mnth. Rent here is 1,050 + bills + food, etc. Court's were not interested in the money she had taken and spent. They see it as not being available for it cannot be used or repaid.

She certainly had it all planned.

The only good news is that I now know what town she is living in (or around) and my guess was correct. So I now know that this affair has been going on for years possibly, even while we were living in that town also. I have found out who she really is and I do not like what I see.

So I am not better off at all.

As far as sleeping is concerned, I have sleeping pills but only get 2 or 3 hour sleep a night.

What a nightmare life. I am stopping all legal actions at the moment as my priority is to find a place to live again. Had I not taken my lawyer advice in June, I wold have had move by now to a different part of the country and would have had a roof over my heat for at least a year. The cost of going through the court to make me worse of is more than a years rent on a house - lesson learned.

[Traveler]

Smilie, sorry the court day did not go as hoped. That must be disappointing.

200/mo adds up to 12,000 in 5 years. Hiring them wasn't a total loss? I get one problem is now you've spent cash-on-hand and 200/mo is going to take years to add up. I wonder if there are any places near you that will give you credit or money now given you have court-ordered income?

Your attorney offered 2100/mo and her attorney offered 600/mo. Given the courts deemed 800/mo fair, it seems her attorney's ballpark estimate of what a court would deem reasonable was much better than your attorney's? I'd be tempted to hire a different attorney next time.

As far as sleeping is concerned, I have sleeping pills but only get 2 or 3 hour sleep a night.

Omigosh. That's not much sleep. Getting to 4-6hrs should be a priority.

[SteveLW]

smilie, this is why I was gently trying to nudge you to get you to consider other options. I was trying not to 2x4 you an clobber you and at the same time get you to see how precarious putting all your eggs into one basket was. You seem like the type that can only focus on one thing at a time. Once the legal motions were in place, you sat back and waited. You were paralyzed by the waiting. And it appears, unfortunately, that it was an all or nothing gamble.

Is there any reason you couldn't have done both? Had legal representation to move the legal stuff forward, AND look for another place to live? And now that you are focused SOLELY on looking for a place to live, you stop all legal action?

Admittedly, we only know the details you provide, and I get that your situation is likely much more complex than any of us know. But it appears you think very linearly, and that this causes you not to be able to multitask and juggle more than one thing. Unfortunately, life doesn't move linearly. I think some good therapy would help you with all this. The problem is that every time we offer suggestions to you, you come back with dozens of "reasons" why you cannot do that. I've told you this once before: where there is a will there is a way.

You have allowed yourself to be painted into the precarious place where your fate is up to your STBXW's doings or not doings. Can you look back and see how that is a recipe for disaster?

One last observation: How does this: "The only good news is that I now know what town she is living in (or around) and my guess was correct. So I now know that this affair has been going on for years possibly, even while we were living in that town also. I have found out who she really is and I do not like what I see." help you at all? YOu knew she was cheating. You knew was conniving. You knew she was something you didn't "like what you see". The only way this was eye-opening at all is if somewhere deep inside of you there was some hope that all of what you were doing would make her wake up and want to go back to the way things were. And if that is the case that is disappointing since you've insisted for weeks now that you do not want her back.

You need to start being honest with yourself, smilie. I see a man that is trying to convince himself of things that aren't true, that makes excuses for why things can't be different, gets myopic on a single thing, and then stews in his own misery (how many statements like "what a nightmare life" have you made in your threads?). You seem like a really nice guy. You seem like someone that deserves better. The problem in this world is that nice and deserves rarely gets you ahead without some blood, sweat, and tears along the way. So the question I would pose to myself if I were in your situation would be: "What can I do to improve my situation?"

[smilie]

Hi Steve,

I guess from your perspective you're probably right how you see me and I am conscious how to answer your questions as I do not want to give the impression of making excuses - all I have been doing is following advice which hasn't worked out as I was led to believe, so here goes...

Is there any reason you couldn't have done both? Had legal representation to move the legal stuff forward, AND look for another place to live?

Yes there was as far as my lawyer advised. This was exactly what I had previously done and have since been doing. The house that I found I was set up to move to until my lawyer told me that it would not be in my best interests and to wait to see what the courts come back with. The courts were delayed and so it took more than a few days. After 2 weeks the people renting the house pulled out and rented it to somebody else so I lost that. I then found another property closer to here and the lawyer said the same thing. The reason for this was that if I paid the full years rent out of "savings" (pension), then I could not claim this back as part of my claim and it would need to be reduced accordingly.

Similarly, the cost of the rent in the area I was looking at was the cheapest in the country and the lawyer informed me that if that rental amount was agreed as part of the claim, then if I were to move to a more expensive area then the courts wouldn't allow for the increase of rent.

Annoyingly, I found out from the barrister prior to the hearing, that the claim was short-term, while my lawyer gave the impressions that it was short-term, but then also would continue in part, longer term. This seems to have been wrong advice.

A claim for costs was also lodged, but I could not recover these and had to pay my own costs, even though my lawyer had stated that I would more than likely get some costs recovered - which is the only reason I agreed to go down this route.

Lesson learned. I have been constantly looking for places to live closer to home all the time, but there are very few places around the geographic are that I live as there are only small market towns and countryside, therefore less properties.

And now that you are focused SOLELY on looking for a place to live, you stop all legal action?

The reason for this thinking is that with much reduced funds, I see my priority as finding a place to live and therefore do no want to keep spending money on high legal costs that will further diminish any remaining pension fund making it unable to move anywhere, if this makes sense? Plugging the leak if you like....

Maybe I am seeing this incorrectly?

You have allowed yourself to be painted into the precarious place where your fate is up to your STBXW's doings or not doings. Can you look back and see how that is a recipe for disaster?

Yes I can see that. This entire thing has been planned. Each step of the way has been put into place and executed perfectly. Because she's a lawyer, my wife knows how to play the game. I did not expect her to be so evil as our relationship wasn't abusive or anything like that, so the way she has acted has both surprised me and deeply upset me. I could never treat anybody in this way, especially without due cause.

One last observation: How does this: "The only good news is that I now know what town she is living in (or around) and my guess was correct.......

The area's around here are surrounded by countryside and there are only a few small market towns that are available to live near/in/around. Therefore because I know where she lives now, I know the main town that she will be in and therefore I know which to avoid moving near. It still makes it difficult and they are all about 30 minutes from each other anyway.

The rest of it was just making sense of the years passed. No, there was no hope of wanting her back. Yes I know she was conniving after I found what she had done prior to and after leaving, so it was eye-opening for me that it had more than likely been going on longer and why she wanted to move into the area and didn't want to move too far from it (we were planning to move to Spain a few years back, but when push came to shove she stopped showing interest).

Yes, this is a nightmare for me and I refer to it as such simply because that's how it feels. Quite simply, I do not know how to get out of this now and I have significantly less funds available and no income. This makes things significantly inflexible.

Sorry about making excuses, I was just sharing my experiences and truly can't see the way forward from where I am at the moment. In hindsight I should have gone with my gut, moved and not taken my lawyers advice, but one hopes that the advice they are given would pan out to some degree, which it would have had my wife not played the game the way she had. Apparently lying is ok and stating that you have spent the money that you took without permission, is also ok, as the courts cannot order money to be paid back that is not available. It's all crooked and wrong.

So the question I would pose to myself if I were in your situation would be: "What can I do to improve my situation?"

It comes back to the same thing once again and where I was at the beginning of June - to find some place to live somewhere out of here, but now with very much depleted funds. The question for me to find an answer to is "How do I do that now....."

[BL42]

smilie,

So you & your L wanted 2100/mo, her attorney offered 600/mo, and the courts granted you 800/mo? I agree w/CWarrior that it sounds like either you or your L had unreasonable expectations and perhaps more realistic expectations and compromise would've served you better.

Regardless, that is in the past. The good news is you now know you'll be getting 800/mo going forward and you should be able to plan accordingly. How long will the spousal support last...1 year, 5 years, in perpetuity?

What are your next steps? Seems like finding a place to live and an income source. How is that going?

You keep referring to finding a place near "home". I don't remember seeing you had children together. Do you have friends and family in the area? If there are no kids, friends, or family holding you there you may consider branching out to a different area with more affordable rents which would 1) help financially and 2) help with detachment and you moving forward.

[SteveLW]

Hi Steve,

I guess from your perspective you're probably right how you see me and I am conscious how to answer your questions as I do not want to give the impression of making excuses - all I have been doing is following advice which hasn't worked out as I was led to believe, so here goes...

Is there any reason you couldn't have done both? Had legal representation to move the legal stuff forward, AND look for another place to live?

Yes there was as far as my lawyer advised. This was exactly what I had previously done and have since been doing. The house that I found I was set up to move to until my lawyer told me that it would not be in my best interests and to wait to see what the courts come back with. The courts were delayed and so it took more than a few days. After 2 weeks the people renting the house pulled out and rented it to somebody else so I lost that. I then found another property closer to here and the lawyer said the same thing. The reason for this was that if I paid the full years rent out of "savings" (pension), then I could not claim this back as part of my claim and it would need to be reduced accordingly.

Similarly, the cost of the rent in the area I was looking at was the cheapest in the country and the lawyer informed me that if that rental amount was agreed as part of the claim, then if I were to move to a more expensive area then the courts wouldn't allow for the increase of rent.

Annoyingly, I found out from the barrister prior to the hearing, that the claim was short-term, while my lawyer gave the impressions that it was short-term, but then also would continue in part, longer term. This seems to have been wrong advice.

A claim for costs was also lodged, but I could not recover these and had to pay my own costs, even though my lawyer had stated that I would more than likely get some costs recovered - which is the only reason I agreed to go down this route.

Lesson learned. I have been constantly looking for places to live closer to home all the time, but there are very few places around the geographic are that I live as there are only small market towns and countryside, therefore less properties.

And now that you are focused SOLELY on looking for a place to live, you stop all legal action?

The reason for this thinking is that with much reduced funds, I see my priority as finding a place to live and therefore do no want to keep spending money on high legal costs that will further diminish any remaining pension fund making it unable to move anywhere, if this makes sense? Plugging the leak if you like....

Maybe I am seeing this incorrectly?

You have allowed yourself to be painted into the precarious place where your fate is up to your STBXW's doings or not doings. Can you look back and see how that is a recipe for disaster?

Yes I can see that. This entire thing has been planned. Each step of the way has been put into place and executed perfectly. Because she's a lawyer, my wife knows how to play the game. I did not expect her to be so evil as our relationship wasn't abusive or anything like that, so the way she has acted has both surprised me and deeply upset me. I could never treat anybody in this way, especially without due cause.

One last observation: How does this: "The only good news is that I now know what town she is living in (or around) and my guess was correct.......

The area's around here are surrounded by countryside and there are only a few small market towns that are available to live near/in/around. Therefore because I know where she lives now, I know the main town that she will be in and therefore I know which to avoid moving near. It still makes it difficult and they are all about 30 minutes from each other anyway.

The rest of it was just making sense of the years passed. No, there was no hope of wanting her back. Yes I know she was conniving after I found what she had done prior to and after leaving, so it was eye-opening for me that it had more than likely been going on longer and why she wanted to move into the area and didn't want to move too far from it (we were planning to move to Spain a few years back, but when push came to shove she stopped showing interest).

Yes, this is a nightmare for me and I refer to it as such simply because that's how it feels. Quite simply, I do not know how to get out of this now and I have significantly less funds available and no income. This makes things significantly inflexible.

Sorry about making excuses, I was just sharing my experiences and truly can't see the way forward from where I am at the moment. In hindsight I should have gone with my gut, moved and not taken my lawyers advice, but one hopes that the advice they are given would pan out to some degree, which it would have had my wife not played the game the way she had. Apparently lying is ok and stating that you have spent the money that you took without permission, is also ok, as the courts cannot order money to be paid back that is not available. It's all crooked and wrong.

So the question I would pose to myself if I were in your situation would be: "What can I do to improve my situation?"

It comes back to the same thing once again and where I was at the beginning of June - to find some place to live somewhere out of here, but now with very much depleted funds. The question for me to find an answer to is "How do I do that now....."

You alway have reasons for what you are doing. I just don't always agree with them! I think you got to a place of comfort in your life, and now that that comfort has been upended you are trying to find your level. You aren't trying to move forward, you are trying to keep things a status quo as possible.

The status quo is no longer possible for you. You either move forward, or you will rot on the vine. My question at the end was supposed to be thought-provoking. You went back to "how do I keep as close to the status quo a possible?" Again, the status quo is no longer an option for you. Stop trying to keep it. "How do you move your life forward?" is the question!

[Traveler]

Hey smilie! Now that the court has deemed support payments of £800/month as a fair and ordered amount you can count on, and you're free to move or start your own business, how are things going?

[smilie]

Hey smilie! Now that the court has deemed support payments of £800/month as a fair and ordered amount you can count on, and you're free to move or start your own business, how are things going?

Hey there! Thanks for checking in. Life has been such a struggle and I have been getting nothing but abuse from all angles.

As far as the business stuff goes, I can't do anything with that at the moment due to court stuff as the stbxw playing evil games. Just the hint of anything like that and it will end my chances of hoping to get any further maintenance. I can't even see if things will work out as it will be used as an excuse that I can work. I never have experienced anything like this and whatever anybody else says, it's straight out of the covert narcissists toolbox. She is beyond evil at this stage.

Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill and 2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.

I light of this, she has just submitted a 296-page response to 20 questions that my lawyer asked as part of the financial disclosure - she has told me she has never known anything like it.

Despite what some of the people here were insinuating, since July I have been looking fulltime for somewhere to live, only sleeping an hour each night, going for a tea at a local church 3 times a week for an hour or two. I wasn't eating properly (still not). All the other time I was answering the relentless phone calls from the so-called health services that were intent on giving me grief just for asking for help, and looking for somewhere to live. I was also trying to get social housing and obtain counselling, but to get housing I had to be evicted and they pulled counselling because I was too anxious - something I have never heard in my life and something that the counsellor I now have has never heard in her life. My experience with the health services was disgusting and I have since found that they are the lowest ranked health/mental health service in the country and are under special measures. They were very abusive towards me and made my entire situation so much worse. Anyway, it took me until November to find a new place to live in a different part of the country and it is nice to be away from where she is. It is certainly helping me detach finally from her. I had neighbours spying on me on her behalf, feeding back information to her and pretending to care (flying monkeys?). The entire thing had left me so paranoid.

I am now at the stage where I can try to rebuild my life and as SteveLW had previously said, I am hardly trying to preserve the Status Quo - why would I? I was in a hell of a place with my position being made constantly worse on a daily basis and I was living it. I have moved now and have my own space, but still worried so much about money.

My lawyer was also a cause for concern and I sacked her. My new one is much better and isn't intent on making as much money as possible from a person with a neurological condition - which I recently had re-diagnosed. I have spent since 2017 with the incorrect diagnosis.

Anyway, that's a quick update. I felt that as time went on nobody was really understanding what was happening and I can quite understand it. This entire thing is an absolute nightmare and one that I cannot believe I am living. It is pure hell. She is pure evil, from the day she left she was intent on destroying me for some unknown reason. But it fits with everything that I have learned about covert narcissistic behaviour since and I can see now how manipulated I was during the relationship, especially since I have been ill.

I was nothing more than a target for her to take everything from emotionally and financially - once she took all that years before she left, she carries on trying to destroy me for no reason whatsoever - that is not how people {should} treat each other. Luckily, I am now not the only one that can see it. Others are noticing and my lawyer can clearly see the unreasonable behaviour at every turn. It's truly disgusting!

I hope you have all had a good Christmas...

[BL42]

smilie,

Welcome back. It's been a few months. Sorry to hear life has been such a struggle. This situation everyone around here has been in is incredibly difficult. I certainly feel for you. However, rest assured, if you focus on yourself and improving your life you will get through it and it will be way in your rear view mirror at some point in the future.

As far as the business stuff goes, I can't do anything with that at the moment due to court stuff as the stbxw playing evil games. Just the hint of anything like that and it will end my chances of hoping to get any further maintenance.

I thought spousal maintenance was already ordered for a certain amount and timeframe? Would you getting a job or starting a business change that? I would think you being out of work for 7 years during the marriage would be a big factor, despite your employment going forward. However, even if it would reduce or stop maintenance might it be better to pursue your own income regardless? It might be empowering and you can't live off your Ex forever.

Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill

Lots of stories are told in divorce situations, especially by the WAS/WS. Maybe it's her perception, maybe it's a lie...unfortunately either way you can't change it. You can only know and tell your own truth.

2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.

What are her grounds for the demand? Thought I remember you saying she cleared out the accounts on you which, if that's the case, seems like you'd be entitled to some of what she took.

Anyway, it took me until November to find a new place to live in a different part of the country and it is nice to be away from where she is. It is certainly helping me detach finally from her.

I think it's good you moved away. Like you said it'll help with detachment not running into her or familiar places. You can make a fresh start.

stbxw playing evil games

All the other time I was answering the relentless phone calls from the so-called health services that were intent on giving me grief just for asking for help, and looking for somewhere to live...My experience with the health services was disgusting...They were very abusive towards me and made my entire situation so much worse

I had neighbours spying on me on her behalf, feeding back information to her and pretending to care (flying monkeys?). The entire thing had left me so paranoid.

My lawyer was also a cause for concern and I sacked her.

smilie - I'll be honest. I don't know you personally or your situation more than what you shared here, so maybe I'm off-base, but I see a lot of being the victim and blame of other people in your posts but not a lot of self-reflection. You blame your stbxw for being evil. You blame your country's health services for not giving you housing and mental care you feel entitled to. You blame your neighbors for spying on you. You blame your first lawyer for not being good.

Maybe all of that is warranted. However, even if it is there's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is focus on yourself. Maybe some self-reflection and self-improvement would be time better spent? You don't have to answer or explain here, just think on it. You'll see "don't be a victim" mentioned frequently on this board. Even if we were all a victim in some way, it doesn't help to dwell on it going forward. Better to get mentally strong and flip the mindset and empower your life going forward.

Don't mean to seem harsh. Just trying to help. Hope you had a good Christmas as well.

[LH19]

S,

Man sorry to hear about your struggles but I tend to agree with BL. I don’t know if your a sports fan but there is a story I remember hearing that fits yours. The Boston Celtics are a historic franchise and have won like 25 championships. About 20 years ago they had a very bad team and we’re struggling mightily. The coach at the time Rick Petino was frustrated with the team and basically told them that the legends of the past (Larry Bird, Kevin McHale etc) were not going to walk through the door to help them out. They were on their own to get themselves out of the terrible situation.

Try to get a little better each day.

Man the “in sickness and in health” portion of the vows completely goes against our lizard brains. In the caveman days if the man was sick the woman and children were sure to perish so the woman would find a new man to ensure their survival. Thousands of years later and nothing has changed.

Chin up and chest out!

[smilie]

Hi BL, thanks for the input.

It's been a few months. Sorry to hear life has been such a struggle. This situation everyone around here has been in is incredibly difficult. I certainly feel for you. However, rest assured, if you focus on yourself and improving your life you will get through it and it will be way in your rear view mirror at some point in the future.

It has been a struggle and certainly the worst of my life - I have never had literally everything taken from me and left with absolutely nothing. Not having an income is the worst thing ever.

I thought spousal maintenance was already ordered for a certain amount and timeframe? Would you getting a job or starting a business change that?

It's an 'interim' order while finances are being sorted. When these are sorted a new order may be made. I don't know what type of work I would be able to do or if plans would suit and I wouldn't know unless I try. As soon as I try, then my wife's lawyer/barrister will push the fact that "see, you can work", even if I am unable to do what I try. I have had this conversation with my lawyer. In the short-term it makes sense to get the maintenance agreed & stable, as she is doing everything possible to spend every penny she earns every month so that she can "prove" that she has nothing left.

I would think you being out of work for 7 years during the marriage would be a big factor, despite your employment going forward. However, even if it would reduce or stop maintenance might it be better to pursue your own income regardless?

Yes, it would be better to do this and this is what I have been trying to get my head round doing exactly that for over 7 years. I would never expect anybody to understand my neurological condition, but it is so awful being dizzy all the time, let alone the other symptoms. Shortly before I moved I was re-diagnosed with PPPD - it would seem I have been given the wrong diagnosis back in 2017 - so there's that.

It might be empowering and you can't live off your Ex forever.

I don't want to live of her at all!

Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill

Lots of stories are told in divorce situations, especially by the WAS/WS. Maybe it's her perception, maybe it's a lie...unfortunately either way you can't change it. You can only know and tell your own truth.

It's not her perception. It is all total fabrication to try to make it seem like I'm making it up that she took the money and trying to make out that I didn't know what was going on and wasn't interested anyway. It got me to a point where I thought I was going mad!

2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.

What are her grounds for the demand? Thought I remember you saying she cleared out the accounts on you which, if that's the case, seems like you'd be entitled to some of what she took.

No grounds. This is her offer of full settlement. I give her 17k, she gives me 9k in maintenance. If that makes sense to anybody..... I have no income, she has a high salary.

I think it's good you moved away. Like you said it'll help with detachment not running into her or familiar places. You can make a fresh start.

The best thing is going out for a walk, away from the places, her and neighbours who would ask me questions and report back to her - so I have just found out after moving.

smilie - I'll be honest. I don't know you personally or your situation more than what you shared here, so maybe I'm off-base, but I see a lot of being the victim and blame of other people in your posts but not a lot of self-reflection. You blame your stbxw for being evil. You blame your country's health services for not giving you housing and mental care you feel entitled to. You blame your neighbors for spying on you. You blame your first lawyer for not being good.

And this is what frustrates me and stopped me posting on forums. I don't know how to explain to you or anybody else, my experience. I type it and it is so massively unbelieveable that people think I'm making it up - this thing has been terrifying! I have one friend who has seen it first-hand including content of legal documents and he can't believe his eyes.

I am desperately trying to find a way back from all this and it's desperately hard. I am not "blaming" but giving facts. I have not blamed anybody for not giving me anything, the housing services wanted me to ruin my credit score, get an eviction notice and become homeless before they would help - in other words ruin my life completely. No blame, just fact.

As far as the stbxw is concerned, I have never experienced anybody being as evil as her. I thought the world of her and hate to have these thoughts and feeling about her, but I cannot explain what she is doing/has done any other way.

Likewise with the neighbours (2 of them), no blame, just fact.

This entire thing for me has been unbelieveable and like I have been in some living nightmare.

I have never expected or felt entitled to any mental care and didn't want any (funny enough I didn't receive any either after months). All I requested was counselling and that turned into the biggest nightmare ever. A guy at a charity who I have been speaking with through the back end of this, agrees that I have been treated appallingly. Even the lady who works for the mental health team that I spoke to after lodging a complaint, also agreed that I had been treated exceptionally bad and that the things that had happened shouldn't have.

This has been my exact experience.

Maybe all of that is warranted.

It's just my exact experience.

However, even if it is there's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is focus on yourself. Maybe some self-reflection and self-improvement would be time better spent?

This is what I have been doing, especially since moving. Everything is so raw still, especially as my wife is still playing these stupid games by submitting 296-page responses to 20 questions - even my lawyer can't believe that and hasn't seen anything like that in her life - so that's not me either.

You'll see "don't be a victim" mentioned frequently on this board. Even if we were all a victim in some way, it doesn't help to dwell on it going forward.

I never wanted to be a victim of anything. I had everything taken from me without my knowledge and no way to live and I have a reaction to that - even now when I look back and look at what's happening, it is so unbelievable!

I have spent months sorting out my living needs and navigating the rubbish I have been dealt - how is that being a victim. I wasn't sitting around waiting for others, I was pushing through both my emotional trauma and neurological symptoms and trying to sort things out and I have so far.

Better to get mentally strong and flip the mindset and empower your life going forward.

I agree and it's the doing that which is the hard part of where to start. I started of learning about narcissistic traits and it seems my stbxw has the handbook.

I need to work on not letting my mind get the better of me - this whole thing has shot my nerves and brain to bits it feels. How the hell do I start fixing that?

I'm also having regular couselling - privately, not on the state.

Money goes down quick and I don't have an income and I don't know how to handle that. Because of this I don't feel settled, never have and therefore I can't even think properly. It's only 3 weeks since I have moved that I have stopped shaking - that's 6 months of continual shaking, although I can still feel the anxiety is still quite high.

I've made a few connections round here and go to the coffee shop to journal a couple of times a week. A friend bought me a gift card for the drinks :-)

Don't mean to seem harsh. Just trying to help. Hope you had a good Christmas as well.

I know, it's just difficult for me to explain by typing - always has been, as the entire thing is so massive and unexplainable. People *always* get me wrong when I say what has happened and I don't know how to to put things into words or move on from that, as then people have made their minds up to the type of person that I am, which seems unfair. I am a worrier though.

I hope you've had a good break also.

[smilie]

LH19 Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'm not waiting for anybody to help me out - never have been. All I have done is what people suggested I do and things spiraled out of control.

I get what you mean about the vows bit. The annoying thing is that I stood by her for 7 years prior to being married (only together 2 years), when she became seriously ill.

I just need to figure out the next steps forward now that I have relocated. Big Challenge.

Chin/Chest thing - doing it! As best I can anyway :-)

[SteveLW]

smilie, one if the things I love about this forum is that people call it like they see it. Some posters embrace that, drop denial, and let this board help them see things more clearly. What I see with you is defensiveness and seeing the posters here as "just more of the same abusers".

Smile, I feel bad for you, I really do. Your situation seems especially complex and thorny, and as others have said, outside of the usual help given here. None of us are qualified to deal with neurological diseases. I really hope your situation improves and you find the peace you seek.

[BL42]

smilie,

And this is what frustrates me and stopped me posting on forums. I don't know how to explain to you or anybody else, my experience. I type it and it is so massively unbelieveable that people think I'm making it up - this thing has been terrifying! I have one friend who has seen it first-hand including content of legal documents and he can't believe his eyes.

Certainly don't want to push you away from this board. It's a great place for folks in our situation with a lot of good people taking their own time to help others. I'm not saying you're making it up, but am observing even in your response just now you're focusing a lot on external factors (stbxw, Health Services, 1st lawyer, neighbors...etc.) whereas the best way to improve your situation is to look inward and work on yourself.

I need to work on not letting my mind get the better of me

Yes! Absolutely.

I'm also having regular couselling

That's great. Keep it up!

It's only 3 weeks since I have moved that I have stopped shaking - that's 6 months of continual shaking, although I can still feel the anxiety is still quite high.

Did you talk to a doctor about anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medication? I'm not a big pill/drug guy, but ADs and sleeping pills can help folks temporarily through a difficult time.

I've made a few connections round here and go to the coffee shop to journal a couple of times a week. A friend bought me a gift card for the drinks :-)

That's wonderful :-)

Keep moving forward smilie. It WILL get better.

[smilie]

What I see with you is defensiveness and seeing the posters here as "just more of the same abusers".

Defensiveness - probably agree there and more than likely because I am being made out to be something that I am not in other areas by the stbxw. As far a posters here being abusers? Nope, I don't think that in the slightest. I have always valued each persons opinion and been very thankful, I have had difficulty trying to see the way out of this nightmare though with my specific issues and that has been frustrating.

Your situation seems especially complex and thorny

I have been told similar by those who have been helping me IRL.

None of us are qualified to deal with neurological diseases. I really hope your situation improves and you find the peace you seek.

Now that I have the right diagnosis, I am hoping I can find a solution. My aim next year - or from now - is to get my life back on track. I do feel lost on that one though. I feel that I've only just got the space to begin to sort myself out, after all these months.

Thank you

[smilie]

but am observing even in your response just now you're focusing a lot on external factors (stbxw, Health Services, 1st lawyer, neighbors...etc.) whereas the best way to improve your situation is to look inward and work on yourself.

Point taken - it's my go to way of explaining things.

Did you talk to a doctor about anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medication?

Did all that over the summer with my then GP. All medications messed with my head so much I couldn't function. Tablets effect my neurology really bad since this condition came on - can't even take a vitamin tablet without spinning for days!

I'm doing good now though and it's nice the shaking has stopped.

Keep moving forward smilie. It WILL get better.

Cheers and I'm sorry if I'm a pain, just been having a hard time of things working against me continually since May and not knowing how to handle stuff.

[BL42]

smilie,

How's it going? Are you ready to make 2022 better than 2021?

[smilie]

Yeah man! You try and stop me!

Emotions are a bit up and down at the moment, more positives now and that's better than being on a permanent down in my book.

I have to figure out GAL a bit more and I think I have the space to think now, whereas before I was too pressured and life was one big panic. I've just arranged to join a mens group at some stage when it restarts for the new year, I'm building my social circle, working out my neurological condition and made enquiries about that and hopefully after the weekend I should be in a position to start working out again at home - oh and I'm going to the Buddhist Centre for a look about meditation next week - so things are on the up!

How are things with you? Happy New Year btw!

[Thornton]

That's a great update, Smilie.

I think you are finally starting to turn the corner and bask in the glimmer of hope. Keep going!

[smilie]

It's been a long time coming that's for sure, but it's nice to feel hopeful some of the time. Most days are still weird and tend to start off rubbish in the mornings and I'm still dealing with the divorce rubbish, but I think a morning routine may address that. I may even be en-route to joining life again to some degree! Nice feeling..

[smilie]

Would you believe I received a text message from my stbxw a few days back - out of the blue. Saying that she would prefer not to go to court and that she hopes I've settled in to my new home. She even ended it with "xx".

She said that she was thinking about replying to the closure letter that I had sent her (beginning of November), to explain the things I had "assumed", but I wouldn't have believed her, so she didn't. Hmmm.

After doing nothing but running me down, acting in an absolutely awful and disgusting manner, I get and "nice" text message. Chalk 'n' Cheese.

Anyway, I didn't respond and sent a copy to my lawyer as she said she preferred to settle out of court.

Put me on the back foot a bit as I haven't heard from her since she picked up her clothes at the beginning of July last year.

[LH19]

Hmmmm. Wonder if she wants something? I would respond sure no problem then state what you want [are entitled to]. Trust me if it is not acceptable to her it will get nasty.

[BL42]

smilie,

Good job not jumping all over the the first pleasant note with a quick response. I agree w/LH be wary of her wanting something. You have an L and hopefully are well versed in your rights and what you're entitled to financially, so make sure if you do settle outside the courts it's fair for you under the law and not favorable to her.

[SteveLW]

Would you believe I received a text message from my stbxw a few days back - out of the blue. Saying that she would prefer not to go to court and that she hopes I've settled in to my new home. She even ended it with "xx".

She said that she was thinking about replying to the closure letter that I had sent her (beginning of November), to explain the things I had "assumed", but I wouldn't have believed her, so she didn't. Hmmm.

After doing nothing but running me down, acting in an absolutely awful and disgusting manner, I get and "nice" text message. Chalk 'n' Cheese.

Anyway, I didn't respond and sent a copy to my lawyer as she said she preferred to settle out of court.

Put me on the back foot a bit as I haven't heard from her since she picked up her clothes at the beginning of July last year.

She has an objective: To not go to court.
She is trying to get what she wants by manipulation. "Maybe if I am nice, he will give me what I want in the closure without going to court!"

Great job not taking the bait. That is why it doesn't add up. "After doing nothing but running me down, acting in an absolutely awful and disgusting manner, I get and "nice" text message."

When there is nothing she wants, she treats you poorly. Then when there is something she wants, she turns on the charm. Settling out of court only makes sense if you get what you deserve. Do not allow over compromise in the name of not going to court. No matter how sweet she becomes.

And be aware, you are likely to get a nasty gram if and when she doesn't get her way. It is the way WWs operate.

[smilie]

Thank you all for your comments.

It certainly is a strange thing and I really didn't expect to hear anything from her, especially this far in. I have done a lot of research on narcissistic behaviour, simply because I looked up her behaviour that I had never before seen and that was what came back - you may remember some of my earlier comments on this - and her behaviour since just before she left and onwards, could have came straight out of the narcissistic handbook. Not saying she is, but some of her behaviour certainly seems to be pointing that way and in this context this text message would be known as "hoovering" to see if I'm still on the hook.

As I say, it may not be that, but it has given me some insight and help me to know how to (or how not to) react and had I not done this research, together the the DB stuff, chances are I may have probably replied, at some stage. So there's that....

Hmmmm. Wonder if she wants something? I would respond sure no problem then state what you want [are entitled to].

TBH I don't feel like getting in to any narrative with her - I don't trust her in the least and something that I would have never thought I would think or even say. She has twisted everything that I have said in the past and I don't particularly want to run the risk of giving her more ammo inadvertently.

Trust me if it is not acceptable to her it will get nasty.

Well she already got nasty, so I reckon that this will just be a continuation of that. I dare say that she will get like this anyway seeing as I haven't responded.

---

Good job not jumping all over the the first pleasant note with a quick response.

Cheers for that. It certainly was strange. I didn't even have the incentive to respond, still had a relatively decent nights sleep. It was only in the morning that I started to let my thoughts run a bit. If I had received this message a couple of months or so ago, I may have responded. Strange how time, a change of scenery/location and a slightly different perspective can change things.

---

SteveLW
I agree with absolutely everything you have said and I am expecting her to carry on as she has done over these past months as I haven't responded. This is so hypocritical. It's so obvious that she is trying to not go to court and it's my belief that this is because she cannot produce the evidence to back up the statements that she has made and is trying to back-pedal, in order to save face and get a better deal for herself perhaps?

After all, it was her who said to me right at the start of this, that she wanted to ask her lawyer how to get the divorce done and then we'd do that. She never expected me to get my own lawyer and this is one of the reasons why she took all of my resources, I believe. No matter the pain and anguish I felt and with the support of you guys and a couple of friends, I somehow fought through that, extreme anxiety, a worsening neurological disorder, a nightmare lawyer and the threat of homelessness. This is the fight I am fighting and I truly believe that she thought she had beaten me into submission - it certainly felt like she did.

However, I'm still here, in a new location and building up a new social circle. Dare I say it, but I even feel the glimpse of enjoying the odd moment here and there, something that I though had truly vanished.


I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again.

[BL42]

smilie,

Cheers for that. It certainly was strange. I didn't even have the incentive to respond, still had a relatively decent nights sleep. It was only in the morning that I started to let my thoughts run a bit. If I had received this message a couple of months or so ago, I may have responded. Strange how time, a change of scenery/location and a slightly different perspective can change things.

Absolutely. Time and distance provide a much different perspective. Glad you're recognizing progress, and hope you know it will continue.

It's so obvious that she is trying to not go to court and it's my belief that this is because she cannot produce the evidence to back up the statements that she has made and is trying to back-pedal, in order to save face and get a better deal for herself perhaps?

Hopefully you now know your rights inside and out and have a good L you can depend on. If she wants to avoid court make sure you're getting a fair deal under the law or if possible leverage her preference for a better deal for yourself...don't sign anything that's more a more favorable deal for her.

However, I'm still here, in a new location and building up a new social circle. Dare I say it, but I even feel the glimpse of enjoying the odd moment here and there, something that I though had truly vanished.

Excellent! You're starting to feel your strength. Continue working on yourself and keep up the momentum. Also be aware there will be ups and downs throughout the process, so don't get too down on yourself when you experience those bad days.

Keep moving forward!

[Spiral]

Smilie,

Your ex may being nice because she wants something. But sometimes exes are simply cordial. I'm cordial with my ex, but it doesn't mean anything other than we've decided to be cordial with one another. And there may be an element of guilt driving her to be nice. I'm happy to hear how you responded though.

Spiral

[smilie]

Absolutely. Time and distance provide a much different perspective. Glad you're recognizing progress, and hope you know it will continue.

Ah now, I hope it will continue. Hard to see at the moment but looking back over the past couple of months and the changes from there, I trust it will improve more.

...don't sign anything that's more a more favorable deal for her.

Absolutely not!

Excellent! You're starting to feel your strength. Continue working on yourself and keep up the momentum. Also be aware there will be ups and downs throughout the process, so don't get too down on yourself when you experience those bad days.

I do feel like I've been through the wringer though. I'm glad you said about the ups and downs, been having those this week, I think as a result of the text she sent - gets into my head. Pushing through - hopefully it won't last too long.

Your ex may being nice because she wants something. But sometimes exes are simply cordial.

I doubt if she's sincerely trying to be cordial - she has done nothing but the opposite to that since she left.

Off out tonight to a quiz night with the guys from a mens group - hopefully I'll be able to answer some questions!