Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Magnhild Out of the bottle - 08/12/21 07:50 PM
Hi all. Been lurking on this site for a couple of weeks now and it’s been a massive help. Thank you to all who share their stories and the wise who hold their hands. Maybe it’s time to have mine held too.

Back ground:
Me: 55
W: 41
Married: 12 years
Together: 14 years
Same sex marriage
No kids

This is our story:
We have been ecstatically happy (or so I thought) in all our time together. She and I have not really had any major issues and would often reflect together on how lucky we are with life, each other and everything. BD 14th July (a month ago) when she told me she needed space and packed a bag for “a night, a few days, a month… I don’t know”. It completed blind-sided me. We had had a few difficult weeks for the previous 6 weeks when our communication had really suffered, but I thought it wasn’t a major thing. Jeez I was so wrong. I wish I had handled things different, but hind-sight is a wonderful thing.

Looking back on things I realised what a complete %&*# I had been for the past 14 years. I take total responsibility for how along the years my emotional availability diminished. I didn’t realise. I really didn’t realise.

I’ve read so much on the internet and have learned about how all my actions have been the cause of so much pain for her, and feel SUCH an idiot for not realising.

One of the major problems for her was my drinking. I don’t think I’m an alcoholic, but was (and I use the “was” this proudly) a problem drinker – scoffing a bottle of wine a night (she doesn’t drink). I have no excuses and her nagging would have no effect on my poor attitude. It’s something I deeply regret. I stopped drinking 3 days before she left and look and feel massively better for it. I know this to be a permanent change – it’s the first time in my life that I have EVER wanted to give up drinking, so I’m not finding this a challenge.

So, I’ve spent this last month devouring all I could find online about what I should be doing. I’ve ordered the book, and this will take a couple of weeks to arrive. I have given her the space she needs – not initiating contact, answering her texts politely, listening intently, validating, and wearing my bullet-proof vest on the 3 occasions we have met.

During these face to face contacts, she has begun opening up to me more and more about my despicable behaviour (for the first time ever) which has been hard, but I needed to hear. This has been really helpful for me, and I am deeply regretful about the pain I have caused her. It was never my intension to hurt her. I’m a total idiot not to see what I was doing, I’ve apologised massively and honestly, but the wound she has is incredibly deep.

She has been staying with a good friend of ours but can’t stay there forever and has been looking for somewhere to rent. We own a beautiful house together which is her decision to leave and I have to respect this. I really have been in the wrong in our relationship and take responsibility for getting us into this situation. I am giving her all the space she needs (although it kills me not to pressure her).

We work together in a school so are both on holiday at present. Our wages go into a shared bank account – it has always been whatever is mine is yours, and have managed to save some money too. I told her to use whatever money she needs to find somewhere. The last thing I want is for her to feel trapped because of financial implications. Fortunately, I earn enough to cover the mortgage by myself should it come to that, but she will find it incredibly hard to find somewhere to rent on her wages alone – hence me wanting her to use what savings we have. I know she feels bad about this, but it’s the least I can do.

I think I’m doing the right things; not drinking, exercising, growing and becoming a better person, but it’s too little too late. In her words, she "needs to be happy" and is feeling "like she can breath" now she has moved out.

I just need somewhere to let off a bit of steam.

Thanks for reading.
Posted By: job Re: Out of the bottle - 08/13/21 01:54 PM
Welcome to the Board! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome Posting for you.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 08:23 AM.
Me-67, D35,S34
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 08/13/21 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I just need somewhere to let off a bit of steam.

Welcome. You found a great place for that. If you want advise, ask away. You will get a slew of different opinions to help make your choices.

Sorry you find yourself in the sitch. Just know that we can relate.

HUGS
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/13/21 07:17 PM
Ah... thanks so much. I appreciate all the wise words I have seen from other people on various threads and it has been a godsend.

It's still incredibly raw but I have been taking the advice others have been given, and feel the pain for those who are going through this. I don't wish this feeling on anyone, but to know there are others who have lived to tell the tale really helps.

From spending our time in each others' pockets to this is devastating... but I'm doing the GAL thing and working on my flaws with gritted determination.

It's just the "if only I'd seen it coming" I could have done things so very differently. It's all so unreal.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/14/21 12:41 PM
Does it take a long time for posts to be accepted?
Posted By: job Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 01:58 PM
Generally, no, it doesn't take a long time for posts to be accepted. However, Cadet and I have been complaining for quite some time that we are not getting the notifications when it comes to new postings. When we do come here, we check the control panel to see if any are available for approval. I checked yesterday and there was 0 postings to be approved. I come here today and there are two...yours. So, I have approved them.

I'm sorry that this happening, but it is beyond our control and I have brought it to the attention of the Administrator again this past week.

Also, you will come off of moderation after 5-6 postings. Again, one of us will notify the Administrator to remove the "moderation" from your account.
Posted By: DejaVu6 Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 02:55 PM
Hi Mag. Welcome to the board. I am three years post BD and am doing really, really well even though my XH has since remarried. This board saved my sanity and helped me get through the hardest most painful period of my life. I truly believe that if I hadn’t found it, I would still be struggling. I am always happy when newcomers join as I know that if they stay here and take the advice that is offered (it is sometimes very counterintuitive and difficult to do), they may not save their marriage (although some will) but they will save themselves. I am one of the latter.

Reading your post, it seems like you are doing a lot of things right. Good for you for recognizing your part in things but please don’t go down the road of beating yourself up about it. The disintegration of a partnership is rarely just about one person. Sounds like you are handling it the best way you can and consciously giving your W the space she needs to figure things out. I know it is hard but keep it up. Congrats on making the changes you needed to. That’s a great step towards recon or a better life…hopefully both. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 05:25 PM
Hi Mag,

The slow posting goes away in 1-2 days, so hang in there. I get it's frustrating that happens just at that moment you're reaching out for help and to tell your story. In no time your posts will be instant.

Originally Posted by Mag
she needed space and packed a bag for “a night, a few days, a month… I don’t know”. It completed blind-sided me.
She left after 8 problem weeks and you say she was nagging you--she communicated there were problems. You own being a "problem drinker" and "emotionally unavailable". You are giving her space. I don't think it will be easy, but I do have some hope for your situation. (:

Originally Posted by Mag
One of the major problems for her was my drinking. I don’t think I’m an alcoholic, but was (and I use the “was” this proudly) a problem drinker – scoffing a bottle of wine a night (she doesn’t drink). I have no excuses and her nagging would have no effect on my poor attitude. It’s something I deeply regret. I stopped drinking 3 days before she left and look and feel massively better for it. I know this to be a permanent change – it’s the first time in my life that I have EVER wanted to give up drinking, so I’m not finding this a challenge.
May I ask for more details? You say you have "a bottle of wine a night". According to NIAAA, a binge drinker has 5+ glasses in less than 2 hours, and a heavy drinker 7+ drinks/week (women) or 14+ drinks/week (men). Why was she nagging you? I get it wasn't good for your health, but her nagging and being a reason for separating implies it caused problems for her too. You said you had a poor attitude. I guess it wasn't the cost/money, then. Were you angry or otherwise acting out?

Going dry for a month is a good first step and common. My XGF, who was sometimes a heavy drinker, was able to do that at least annually. Each time it helped for a bit. Complete abstinence is a solution for some. Most will have a drink when a friend's celebrating and pops a champagne.

You drank for some reason. If this is long-term, I'd be curious what you fill that void with beyond willpower, I'd be curious what your plan to moderate is unless you plan to be a teetotaler.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 09:51 PM
Oh. Thank you all so much for replying.

Job - thanks so much and no need to apologise. I thought my posts had been lost in the depth of cyberspace.

DejaVu - your words are so kind it brought tears to my eyes. I'm so pleased that you seem to have got through this - it gives me hope.

CWarrior - Sure. My drinking was a problem for her. I used the word "nagging" in my post and I regret using that word. She was concerned for my health as any loving person would be. I'm not making excuses and take full responsibility for my (lack of) actions. I bitterly regret not acting on her care. In many ways, her leaving me has given me the wake-up call I should have had a LONG time ago. I'm making very positive changes in that respect.

"You drank for some reason. If this is long-term, I'd be curious what you fill that void with beyond willpower, I'd be curious what your plan to moderate is unless you plan to be a teetotaler."
Sorry - I haven't yet learned how to quote!

At the moment, it really hasn't been a problem not drinking. Drinking was a choice - I made the choice to drink and now I'm making the choice NOT to drink. If I go out for dinner, I'll have two glasses and then stop. Before I wouldn't. That would be the problem.

Anyway, I'm feeling great, am not finding it hard and don't foresee it being too hard. Time will tell. At the moment, my "void" is being filled with tonic water smile

I've been spending MANY hours on this site, and my goodness, it is FULL of such wisdom and insight. I am wondering now if her leaving me is anything to do with a MIL. I'm not negating my responsibility in the breakdown of our marriage, however, she began seeing a psychologist a couple of weeks before leaving me. Her mother became (and continues to be) very mentally unwell from when W was about 14 and felt emotionally abandoned from that age. It took many years for her to open up to me about that, and even then, she wouldn't like to talk about it.

I'm rambling now.

Let me see how long this post takes to appear before posting again smile
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 09:54 PM
Will continue when I've been moderated.
Like my drinking.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
You said you had a poor attitude. I guess it wasn't the cost/money, then. Were you angry or otherwise acting out?

I'm practising how to quote here, so don't know if this will work!

No, I was never angry nor acting out. I was always quite a chirpy wino. I just liked to drink as my reward at the end of the day that got into a really, really bad habit.

I don't want my posts to dwell on this, although please feel free to point out that this may be my denial! I want to be brutally honest with you all and can take any bashing you may wish to give. Please be gentle, and remember I am owning up to my behaviour and addressing it. She suggested that I see a psychotherapist and have my first appointment on Tuesday so we will see what the "root" of this is.

I am still reading a massive amount of threads on here and trying to learn as much as I can about possible reasons for what has happened. I get it. I was a twat who didn't give her the emotional safety I should have, who now bitterly regrets past decisions.

I can't go back in time and change what I have done. If I could I wouldn't be here now, but I am trying to learn, trying to gain positives from an incredibly negative time, and trying to move forward from past mistakes.

Baby steps.
Posted By: job Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 10:25 PM
I have put in a request to get you taken off moderation. Cadet and I are volunteers and we pop in periodically during the day seven days a week. Hopefully the Administrator will release you from moderation on Monday/Tuesday.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/15/21 10:33 PM
Job - Thank you so much. It's very much appreciated.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Out of the bottle - 08/16/21 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by job
I have put in a request to get you taken off moderation. Cadet and I are volunteers and we pop in periodically during the day seven days a week. Hopefully the Administrator will release you from moderation on Monday/Tuesday.

Except - yesterday I went to the beach!
Trying to get my moneys worth from my parking pass.

It was great and the first time it has not rained on a Sunday this summer.

Yeah hopefully you will be off of moderation soon.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 08/16/21 07:53 PM
Hi Mag,

I don't bash. Right now I'm just trying to understand you and your issues. (:

I was trying to ask you two questions--1) How much are you drinking both per night and per week--I listed NIAAA guidelines, 2) How did your drinking negatively affect your partner?

If her only concern was that maybe, someday, it would cause health issues it seems more like an excuse to leave such as, "My wife is 10# overweight." If there were more pointed issues I didn't hear you own those.

What is your motivation to quit beyond appeasing your wife? Are you going to do every other healthy thing possible such as diet, exercise, sleep, drink water, eat a plant-based diet, etc?
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/17/21 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
How much are you drinking both per night and per week--I listed NIAAA guidelines

Let's see.
Week 1 (BD) 2 x 2 glasses of wine during two dinners out. Home drinking = zero
Week 2 Zero
Week 3 1 glass of wine (dinner out) Home drinking = zero
Week 4 Zero
This is week 5... zero

Before BD - a bottle of wine a night. I'm pretty proud of myself.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
How did your drinking negatively affect your partner?
Now that's a VERY valid question. I knew she didn't really like it, but she put it down to one of my quirks. Obviously, it affected her FAR more than I realised. Her father drinks massively, presumably to get through caring for his very mentally unwell wife (W's mother). I will go into how it affected her more later.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
If there were more pointed issues I didn't hear you own those.
She told me at our last face-to-face there were "many little things over the years" which had me holding my head in my hands in horror at how she felt. Jeez, I own up to these BIG TIME. There were instances where what she told me (all absolutely true) hammered it home how my carelessness had brought on this disintegration. Rest assured, I have beaten myself out about these. I honestly didn't see it. Yes, I'm a dick. No, I can't go back in time. I will have to face my actions have brought this on, and it seems so surreal when I love her so much, yet did things like that. I understand why she left me.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
What is your motivation to quit beyond appeasing your wife? Are you going to do every other healthy thing possible such as diet, exercise, sleep, drink water, eat a plant-based diet, etc?

It's not about appeasing W. It's about me choosing to be the best version of me that I can be. Diet is healthy, but it always has been. Started working out everyday and have lost 6 kg so far. Friends (and W) say I am looking better than I have in years. Again, this isn't to get her back... this is for me. Sleeping great - I guess not drinking and exercising really helps. Health wise I'm doing great. Emotionally I'm doing pretty OK considering. A massive amount of reflection and working on myself.

I have my first psychologist appointment this afternoon which I'm looking forward to as I have NO idea where it go smile

After a week of not hearing from her, she has literally just texted while I'm writing asking what time the appointment is and would I like to meet. I'm mentally prepared for her telling me she's found an apartment. I know she needs to work on herself at the moment and I so am giving her the space she needs however much it hurts.

Thanks for reading.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 08/17/21 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
After a week of not hearing from her, she has literally just texted while I'm writing asking what time the appointment is and would I like to meet. I'm mentally prepared for her telling me she's found an apartment. I know she needs to work on herself at the moment and I so am giving her the space she needs however much it hurts.
Nothing REQUIRES an immediate response.

Can you have more will power than her? She ghosts you for a week....Let HER worry about you. How long can you hold out not responding?


You also need to be "too busy" to meet. You can deflect if you want. Another options is "I don't believe we should she each other for a while."
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/17/21 07:49 PM
Thanks, Ready2Change. Good advice.

I responded "I'd love to" and left it at that. I know, I know, I KNOW!! I should have not done that, but I'm still learning. Still I left it at that.

She texted later to say she had just been speaking to a (mutual) friend and was now an "emotional wreck" and "maybe tomorrow morning".

I haven't replied. See, I can learn smile

On another note, by Divorce Remedy book arrived this afternoon, so I'm getting stuck into that now. Evening sorted.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 08/17/21 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
She texted later to say she had just been speaking to a (mutual) friend and was now an "emotional wreck" and "maybe tomorrow morning".

"That is way too soon. I need some time to think and have some important decisions to make."
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 12:44 PM
Been a while since I posted.

We met up a couple of times which was actually quite positive. She remarked on how well I looked and she said I appeared to be coping with this situation better than her. She tells me she has found a place to rent from tomorrow (10 month lease) which I wasn't surprised by, as I knew this had been her plan after spending the last couple of months at a friend's house. However, this still managed to put me back a bit.

We work together at a school, which starts on Monday and I'm finding that very hard - seeing her around. We're both very professional, but it's such a difficult thing to handle. We've both been in school for the last few days and she has visited me in my room to talk. The mutual friends we have there are all completely as shocked as I am that she left the marriage with no desire to work on it. She still hasn't told her family.

So now onto any advice anyone can help me with....

All her stuff is in our home, and her new place is furnished, so she will only need her clothes. After going backwards and forwards in my head, I'm still not sure of what do to for the best.

For a couple of days I've been thinking about how I really need to move on and it's probably best for me to ask her to take all her belongings from the house. She can always rent a garage to store her stuff pretty cheaply - it shouldn't be my problem. I also want her to remove her name from the mortgage & bank account. I need to protect my assets.

I've spent the summer working on my "better self", physically and emotionally, and I now need to face up to the reality of a broken marriage and look after myself financially.

Am I being a complete tw*t to suggest this? I have been standing for my marriage for the last two months but I'm not sure if doing this shows compassion or is it fair?

Any helpful advice?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 04:09 PM
Hi Magnhild,

I think it's very healthy that you don't want her things surrounding you. I'm impressed! That would be my priority--"Given you've committed to living elsewhere for the next 10 months, I request that you please remove your belongings from my home by Oct 1, 2021."

If she disagrees, or doesn't agree within a week, or doesn't remove her things by that deadline, I'd begin taking alternate measures. E.g., paying to have the items moved to storage and accounting it as a shared cost, accelerating settling the mortgage, or discussing options with a lawyer. Please note I would not threaten any of these things as that may make it easier for her to block them.

In the US, if you're legally married, it's trivial to have a temporary restraining order issued on the shared bank account and mortgage, limiting the need to actually separate them out at this point. I know because that was my first "volley" when I was ready to leave my XW. Are you legally married? (In 2021, some places, unfortunately, do not recognize same-sex marriages and afford them the same rights and protections as opposite-sex marriages.) Are you in the US or UK?
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 05:20 PM
Magnhild,

Originally Posted by Magnhild
We met up a couple of times which was actually quite positive. She remarked on how well I looked and she said I appeared to be coping with this situation better than her.
Nice she noticed, but a caution not to read too much into it. Sounds like you might be hoping because of these words things will turn - I wanted to read into all the "positive" signs too. Continue improving yourself and be (or at least act) happy. If she really thinks you're doing better than her she may start questioning things...

Originally Posted by Magnhild
She tells me she has found a place to rent from tomorrow (10 month lease) which I wasn't surprised by, as I knew this had been her plan after spending the last couple of months at a friend's house. However, this still managed to put me back a bit.
Notice her words we positive (or at least the ones you shared) but her actions are still moving towards separation / divorce.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
We work together at a school, which starts on Monday and I'm finding that very hard - seeing her around. We're both very professional, but it's such a difficult thing to handle. We've both been in school for the last few days and she has visited me in my room to talk. The mutual friends we have there are all completely as shocked as I am that she left the marriage with no desire to work on it. She still hasn't told her family.
That does sound difficult. I can't imagine having to work professionally with someone while going through this.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
All her stuff is in our home, and her new place is furnished, so she will only need her clothes. After going backwards and forwards in my head, I'm still not sure of what do to for the best.

For a couple of days I've been thinking about how I really need to move on and it's probably best for me to ask her to take all her belongings from the house. She can always rent a garage to store her stuff pretty cheaply - it shouldn't be my problem.
Completely fair to ask her to remove her stuff. She's has separated from you and is threatening to end the marriage! No need to be nice and gentle and accommodating.

Originally Posted by CWWarrior
"Given you've committed to living elsewhere for the next 10 months, I request that you please remove your belongings from my home by Oct 1, 2021."
If you go the route of asking, CWWarrior's wording suggestion seems very reasonable.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I also want her to remove her name from the mortgage & bank account. I need to protect my assets.
Do it. Period. Protect your finances. She's acting in her interests, not yours. You can start redirecting your paycheck into a new bank account which she does not have access to, to further protect yourself.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I've spent the summer working on my "better self", physically and emotionally
Great!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I now need to face up to the reality of a broken marriage and look after myself financially.
Yep. It's tough. But start getting into "business" mode and watch your interests, especially financially.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Am I being a complete tw*t to suggest this? I have been standing for my marriage for the last two months but I'm not sure if doing this shows compassion or is it fair?
Your spouse is separating and probably divorcing you and you're concerned you're not acting fairly by asking her to pack up her stuff. The board is going to tell you to toughen up and not be soft / too nice.

Is it possible there's an affair / other person involved? Do you suspect anything? What does your gut tell you? My "Spidey sense" was tingling on BD and quickly found out there was at least an emotional if not physical affair. What does yours say? I ask because earlier in the thread you mention you thought things were happy for 14 years and BD was a shock and then little complaints started surfacing. Could be she met someone and fell and is now re-writing things and blaming you for her guilty feelings and/or making excuses for her behavior. Many on here would recommend being tougher on WAS when there's another party involved. Have you thought about packing up her stuff yourself, leaving it in the garage or front porch, and say "you're leaving me so here's your stuff...bye!") Again, this is based on purely speculation but so many of the sitches on here involve an affair which comes out eventually, even if the LBS swears up and down the WAS has nothing going on in that area.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 05:51 PM
Thanks both for replying.

CWWarrior: I guess one month to remove her stuff is reasonable. I was thinking more like two weeks! I suppose I do need to make an appointment to see a lawyer. We used a good one a while back when we transferred our Civil Partnership (in the UK) into a Marriage once it was legal in this part of Europe. Feel a bit sad that I will be visiting this lawyer alone after the length of time it took for him to get the marriage "certified". Bureaucracy here is a nightmare.

BL42: Yep... I guess I do need to toughen up a bit smile

No, I'm convinced there is no other person. I've read so much on here and other forums that it is normal to delude ourselves, and who knows, maybe I am. However, my gut tells me she is just in a really dark place right now, not just with her marriage, but also trying to come to terms with her dysfunctional family.

W became friendly with a mother of one of the kids at school who had just split from her husband. For a few weeks before she left they texted each other a lot, but I really do put it down to this mother showing W that it IS possible to leave a marriage and giving her the courage to do that. EA affair? I really don't think so; just two very bitter women venting with each other. Fair enough.

It would be easier, I think, if there was another person and this was ultimately her reason to leave. I would be able to stop the compassion I'm feeling right now.

I'm expecting W to contact me tomorrow to tell me she has just paid for the new apartment. Yes, out of our joint account, but I have already said I will try to make it easy on her.

Last night I took down all the photos of us on the walls and took off my wedding ring. Wow - just typing that has made tears run down my face. After being so strong and acting/being happy, I'm really hurting today. It's only been six weeks...
Posted By: BluWave Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 07:22 PM
Mag,

Welcome. I am so sorry you have to find yourself here. You are off to a good start. It is very long, difficult and painful journey. Please know that you are not alone. Everyone here has been in a similar sitch at some point. I started reading here over 7 years ago and I notice patterns. I just wanted to offer a couple things that you might find helpful. I do not check/post here often, but if I can be of help to you, I will. I just wanted to offer you a little something.

I see you taking a lot of ownership of where you went wrong. That is so important because we can only control and change one person -- our self. Conversely, it is easy to think that it is all our fault and want to dive right in and fix our problems and try to be perfect. That is not possible. It took a long time for the relationship to deteriorate and it was not one persons doing. It is complicated. Also, based on reading 100s maybe 1000 stories, there is usually a third party involved and some type of affair. Some know about it and find out early. Some do not believe it and are completely shocked. But in most of these sitches, esp when your partner leaves rather abruptly, there is someone else involved. People do not pick up and quickly leave us to get away from us, they leave to be with someone else. I want to caution you to protect yourself as I see a lot of self blame in your writings. Also, her sadness could be more due to some type of guilt rather than losing her relationship with you. I am sorry if that stings. I know that sting myself.

So if this is true, and she is imagining or planning a relationship with someone else, what can you do about it? Unfortunately, nothing to change her mind. You note it and don't allow yourself to obsess over it. You do not confront her. In fact, it is better not to initiate any contact with her. I know you have to see her at work, but it is best to stay FAR away. A brief head nod or smile and then walk away. She needs to see that you are letting go and moving on. If you are struggling with this, I recommend reading and following Sandi's rules. They saved my sanity and my life. I read them every day and maybe 20 times a day.

Also, I know you want to help her financially, but please be careful. Protect yourself and your assets right now. Are you doing this out of guilt? A hope she will see you as caring and come back? Or is it legally required? What if you knew for certain there was an A and that is why she is leaving you?.... I think it is a good idea to look at finances separately from emotions. She has picked up and left you and it is reasonable not to help someone do that to you. Do you see how this looks to an outsider?

I know how hard this is. I feel for you. Just take it day by day. And remember that less is more. When is doubt, do nothing. Stay away from her and take care of you. This takes a long, long time to unfold. In the mean time, your focus is completely off of her and on you and your own healing. She may look over her shoulder if she sees you happier and moving on, but for now you just stay on your own path.

Take care. You got this.
Blu
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I guess one month to remove her stuff is reasonable. I was thinking more like two weeks!
Nothing wrong with two weeks. It's even stronger. CWarrior was probably just saying to pick a date and be firm.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I suppose I do need to make an appointment to see a lawyer.
Yes. Call one Monday. Or maybe two or three (if they give free consultations). It's important to know your rights so you can start acting accordingly, even if it ultimately does not come to D.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
BL42: Yep... I guess I do need to toughen up a bit smile
Toughen up, yes, but maybe a better way to say it is act out of strength. It took me awhile to understand this. At first I acted scared and weak, but the stronger I got the more it helped my mental state.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
No, I'm convinced there is no other person.
Famous last words...

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I've read so much on here and other forums that it is normal to delude ourselves, and who knows, maybe I am. However, my gut tells me she is just in a really dark place right now, not just with her marriage, but also trying to come to terms with her dysfunctional family.
Definitely likely she's in a dark place / modeled behavior is kicking in if she had a dysfunctional family, but that and an affair aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe not, and I'm not as experienced on this board as others, but it does seem an overwhelming majority of sitches have another party involved...even if the LBS did not believe it to be the case initially.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
W became friendly with a mother of one of the kids at school who had just split from her husband. For a few weeks before she left they texted each other a lot
There's smoke. Perhaps not fire, but definitely smoke...

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I really do put it down to this mother showing W that it IS possible to leave a marriage and giving her the courage to do that. EA affair? I really don't think so; just two very bitter women venting with each other. Fair enough.
Could be. Doesn't necessarily mean affair, maybe they were commiserating and talking separation / divorce, but don't dismiss it either.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
It would be easier, I think, if there was another person and this was ultimately her reason to leave. I would be able to stop the compassion I'm feeling right now.
Not sure about that, having been through the other way myself, but doesn't change anything regardless.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I'm expecting W to contact me tomorrow to tell me she has just paid for the new apartment. Yes, out of our joint account, but I have already said I will try to make it easy on her
Ultimately your decision, but I would not recommend paying for her to leave you. Not only is it weak and your marriage is better off not taking away the consequences of leaving, but you may regret giving away money in the long run. It's a business negotiation now. She's not looking after you - don't give away your money to someone leaving you.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Last night I took down all the photos of us on the walls and took off my wedding ring. Wow - just typing that has made tears run down my face. After being so strong and acting/being happy, I'm really hurting today. It's only been six weeks...
That's tough. I went through that as well. Therapeutic in a way though...

Originally Posted by BluWave
You are off to a good start. It is very long, difficult and painful journey.
I agree w/BluWave here. You are off to a good start. Stopping drinking, exercising keep all those self improvements up!

Originally Posted by BluWave
I see you taking a lot of ownership of where you went wrong. That is so important because we can only control and change one person -- our self. Conversely, it is easy to think that it is all our fault and want to dive right in and fix our problems and try to be perfect. That is not possible. It took a long time for the relationship to deteriorate and it was not one persons doing. It is complicated.
This is what I was alluding to in my last post...certainly identify areas you could have done better and work on them for the future, but at the same time don't let her put the entire weight of the marriage onto you. Her guilt over this is likely leading her to blame you for every little item as a justification for her actions. Neither of you are perfect, but she's the one leaving and refusing to work on the marriage. In one of the few marriage counseling sessions we had my wife brought up the silliest reasons for the affair / D like we disagreed on the plates we registered for 7 years ago and I didn't put the garbage bags on the garage can correctly. Not something to break up a family over. Point is...if you had a drinking problem definitely address it, but also don't put 100% of the burden on yourself. Neither of you are perfect.

Originally Posted by BluWave
Also, based on reading 100s maybe 1000 stories, there is usually a third party involved and some type of affair. Some know about it and find out early. Some do not believe it and are completely shocked. But in most of these sitches, esp when your partner leaves rather abruptly, there is someone else involved. People do not pick up and quickly leave us to get away from us, they leave to be with someone else. I want to caution you to protect yourself as I see a lot of self blame in your writings. Also, her sadness could be more due to some type of guilt rather than losing her relationship with you. I am sorry if that stings. I know that sting myself.
I think what BluWave & I are saying...is just prepare yourself for the possibility there's someone else involved. It's not as unlikely as you believe right now.

Originally Posted by BluWave
I know you have to see her at work, but it is best to stay FAR away. A brief head nod or smile and then walk away. She needs to see that you are letting go and moving on.
Yep! And the sooner the better. Don't let her ease out of it; let her feel the consequences.

Originally Posted by BluWave
Also, I know you want to help her financially, but please be careful. Protect yourself and your assets right now. Are you doing this out of guilt? A hope she will see you as caring and come back? Or is it legally required? What if you knew for certain there was an A and that is why she is leaving you?.... I think it is a good idea to look at finances separately from emotions. She has picked up and left you and it is reasonable not to help someone do that to you. Do you see how this looks to an outsider?
Agreed. Be strong. Start protecting yourself financially. Don't help her out just to be nice and especially with the hope of getting her back.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 08/28/21 11:14 PM
Oh Blu and BL42.

Thank you so much for spending time giving advice to some random person on the internet. Your words are VERY much appreciated.

It's finally bedtime here after a very long day focussing far too much on the situation. You have both given me a lot to mull over.

I see the wisdom of your words and have printed out Sandi's Rules. I will get there. It is very tough.

I spoke with my 81 year old mother and her friend the other day on FaceTime, and her friend/companion told her that I looked so well I must be fine. Her advice tonight was actually to not put too much of a brave face on. That seemed almost the opposite of rules #12 & 13.

Thanks again for your words. I have read them over and over.

Time to sleep.
Posted By: Michka Re: Out of the bottle - 08/30/21 08:37 AM
Hi Magnhild,

I just wanted to share I am sorry you are going through this. Its a hard situation and I know for me personally has been utterly bewildering, I still at times ask myself how on earth did we get here?

I just wanted to comment on your family/friends advice... its similar to what my own mother in law keeps telling me, I think she thinks that if I appear vulnerable and hurt that my H will feel sorry for me and make amends? However, I just wanted to tell you that I think Sandi's Rules are what you need right now. Whats helping me right now is standing tall and getting on with it rather than appear distressed and hurt... save that for the forum I think and your IC if you have one. From my own limited experience but more importantly from reading others experience's here, it seems that it will be of more benefit to you.

I hope you slept well.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 08/30/21 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
it's probably best for me to ask her to take all her belongings from the house.....Any helpful advice?
Yes.

"I believe it would be best if you remove the remaining items from my house by "such and such date". (Maybe a Monday a few weeks out to give her 2 weekends to move things out)

Keep things simple. I love starting with "I believe" and ending with a date.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 09/01/21 08:05 PM
So updating. More of a journal entry.

Sunday she moved from her friends house where she has been staying since she left (mid-July) to her own place.

We started back at school (just staff) on Monday, and it was horrible. Broke down at lunchtime with a colleague. Felt so wrong people asking how the summer was. "What did you guys get up to over the summer?" questions. No-one apart from a few close (mutual) friends at school know.

W came to see me at the end of the day, and we were both in tears. I really tried to be strong, but it was so hard. For the first time, later that evening, I had to reach out to her to ask how to mend a catch on the bedroom window, hoping she could explain. She came round to fix it and noticed I had taken off my ring and taken down our photos. Please don't criticise but I was very much "This is not what I want, but I accept that you want out of the marriage". So hard. I asked her to go and see the bank about our mortgage, and that I would be contacting a lawyer so we can sort out the financial situation as fairly and as soon as possible. W was really surprised and visibly upset as she thought this could be done amicably.

Today is Wednesday, and she came to see me at the end of the day asking for her to come round and collect some work clothes. She left a while ago with lots of bags. We talked (politely) about school stuff and no R talk, only business. I had written a list of her belongings that she needs to take and she seemed very taken aback. Although I know it's not my problem, I feel so bad about telling her, as I know how difficult it is going to be for her.

I have secured an appointment with the lawyer on Monday. The irony of having him to legalise our marriage in this country, only to ask him advice on separation is not lost on me. I haven't yet told her the appointment is on Monday. When I spoke about it before, she asked me if I wanted her to come with me. I said no.

So I went to my home gym to make myself better. It didn't really work too well as although my body is celebrating my new found fitness, my heart is breaking.

If at any time during the last few weeks she had said that she just needed some space to sort herself out with the aim of eventually reconciling, this would be playing out differently. But she didn't. I am trying REALLY hard to let go.

I can't help feeling that I am rushing this.

I keep telling myself I will get there eventually. I won't always feel like this. I am being strong and doing what I can control and setting the boundaries, but I just don't want this marriage to end.

Feeling pretty rubbish.

I start teaching tomorrow and I just can't get my head around it.

This is just so hard.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 09/01/21 08:37 PM
Hi Magnhild,
Originally Posted by Magnhild
W was really surprised and visibly upset as she thought this could be done amicably.
Don't fall for this thought error. Having lawyers help doesn't automatically make the divorce UN-amicable. They will ensure you get the paperwork right and advise you each of your rights so neither of you is shafted either intentionally or inadvertently. There's nothing to fear unless one of you engages in a pointless battle to "win" instead of aiming for a "reasonable settlement", and even then it's usually the party asking for something unreasonable who pays more money for attorneys.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 09/01/21 09:09 PM
Magnhild,

Originally Posted by Magnhild
We started back at school (just staff) on Monday, and it was horrible. Broke down at lunchtime with a colleague. Felt so wrong people asking how the summer was. "What did you guys get up to over the summer?" questions. No-one apart from a few close (mutual) friends at school know.
It must be very difficult having to work in the same building. I can't imagine. Try to stay strong and put on a good face.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
W came to see me at the end of the day, and we were both in tears. I really tried to be strong, but it was so hard.
I'd recommend asking her not to just "come by" at work. You may want to have a discussion with your supervisor (principal) about the situation, and see if there's anything they can do to help from an HR perspective? If nothing else, explain the situation so they understand you're going through a difficult situation and perhaps be more empathic to flexibility you need work-wise. I had to have an embarrassing (in my mind) conversation with my fairly new manager about my sitch explaining why I wasn't meeting some work commitments and he was actually incredibly understanding, flexible, and helped take off the load and now a year later is seeing me crushing it. I'm glad I spoke to him about it.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
For the first time, later that evening, I had to reach out to her to ask how to mend a catch on the bedroom window, hoping she could explain.
Did you need to contact her about that? Any other family, friends, contractors, YouTube videos which could've helped you without her assistance? Remember...don't use those things to create interaction, it's needy and pursuit.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
She came round to fix it and noticed I had taken off my ring and taken down our photos. Please don't criticise but I was very much "This is not what I want, but I accept that you want out of the marriage". So hard.
Did part of you want her to see this? If you're doing those things to move on yourself, great, but don't do them to manipulate her back.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I asked her to go and see the bank about our mortgage, and that I would be contacting a lawyer so we can sort out the financial situation as fairly and as soon as possible. W was really surprised and visibly upset as she thought this could be done amicably.
Agree with CWarrior having a L doesn't prevent it from being done amicably. Also, not sure you want to advertise you met with someone? It's a business negotiation now and you need to look out for yourself...why advertise you're getting legal advice? Hopefully not to manipulate her back...

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Today is Wednesday, and she came to see me at the end of the day asking for her to come round and collect some work clothes. She left a while ago with lots of bags. We talked (politely) about school stuff and no R talk, only business. I had written a list of her belongings that she needs to take and she seemed very taken aback. Although I know it's not my problem, I feel so bad about telling her, as I know how difficult it is going to be for her.
Did you give her a deadline as discussed above? Don't let her drag it out and keep stopping by for another load every few days, which will impact you emotionally. Pack up that list of items you made and leave it in the garage or on the porch. No reason to have her engage with you.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I have secured an appointment with the lawyer on Monday. The irony of having him to legalise our marriage in this country, only to ask him advice on separation is not lost on me. I haven't yet told her the appointment is on Monday. When I spoke about it before, she asked me if I wanted her to come with me. I said no.
No need to advertise you're meeting with a L. And certainly DO NOT invite her along. The L is to protect YOUR interests, not hers - you have no idea if the D will go amicably...regardless of what she's saying now.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
So I went to my home gym to make myself better. It didn't really work too well as although my body is celebrating my new found fitness, my heart is breaking.
It's great you're working out. That will definitely help.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
If at any time during the last few weeks she had said that she just needed some space to sort herself out with the aim of eventually reconciling, this would be playing out differently. But she didn't. I am trying REALLY hard to let go.
Unfortunately the WASs have no interest in working on it, otherwise yes you probably could improve things. It's going to take time to let go. Keep up the work and you'll get there.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I can't help feeling that I am rushing this.
It might feel like that now but the sooner you start the sooner you'll be on a path to feel better and stronger; you won't regret putting in the work ASAP.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I keep telling myself I will get there eventually. I won't always feel like this. I am being strong and doing what I can control and setting the boundaries, but I just don't want this marriage to end.
You will get there! It is hard. Hang in there.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 09/01/21 09:15 PM
Good point CWarrior.

Neither of us have experience of divorce, and I do just want to be fair and know both of our rights. W has never expressed the word divorce. I'm not sure if there is such a thing as legal separation here, or whatever that would mean. I just know I need to accept what is out of my control and see what's what in terms of savings and mortgage.

W and I are both very fair people and would never shaft the other. Let's hope these words won't come back to haunt me!

Thank you all for helping me through this.

I have my IC tomorrow, so I'm hoping that I will feel a lot better tomorrow than I do tonight.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 09/01/21 09:41 PM
Worst thing I have ever experienced. Looking back at all the personal growth since, best thing to happen to me.

Everything happens for a reason. Embrace this as your chance to make any positive changes to you. Focus on that.

True love is giving the other person what they want, even if it is not what you want. This may just be a vacation from the relationship. For some it is, for others it is the end. None of us know. You Divorce Bust your butt off and see if she has a change of heart.


Everything that I have seen that works is counter intuitive to the person's natural instincts. You feel like you are rushing this, but you are not. You are doing the best thing for you. She has a huge head start on you. Pass her with our help.


Do your research on attraction and seduction. Learn new ways of interacting. These skills will pay off with her and others.

One mistake that I see over and over is the LBS believes talking will solve the issue. It almost always makes it worse.

Another mistake is making changes to draw the other person back. The real reason to make the changes is to be the best version of you possible. For example, I might suggest start dressing sexier. She might notice, but the real reason is for you to feel sexy. Others will definitely notice. The way you dress is one small part of all the changes that you can potentially make.


HUGS,

R2C
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 09/03/21 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
For example, I might suggest start dressing sexier. She might notice, but the real reason is for you to feel sexy. Others will definitely notice. The way you dress is one small part of all the changes that you can potentially make.

R2C
I think I'm doing all right on that front smile

Saw my IC yesterday afternoon. It was a good session as it had been a good day. The kids were back in school, and teaching again gave me a much needed boost of "normality". The therapist was very impressed with my mindset and the decisions I have taken in regard to the house and the lawyer, and basically reiterated what you lovely folks here have been saying. My "work husband" AKA my boss AKA my best mate left the school before the summer, and the new head (who I work with very closely) seems a tosser. When I mentioned this to the therapist, she was incredibly sympathetic to the double-whammy that is my new reality. Two big loves, one personal and one professional at the same time. Although I'm not comparing the breakup of my marriage to losing my work husband, I really could have done without both being at the same time.

But, this roller coster is mental. Yesterday, I felt on the top of the world. Really felt like I was finally moving on. Yet this evening I get a text from her that she wants to come round tomorrow to "sort out" some of her stuff, and it punched me in the gut. I would like to have replied "please just take everything all at once", but realistically all our folders of paperwork during our years together do need to be separated, and I shouldn't be the one to have to do it. I have tried not to let it affect me, and to keep being strong but I'm wobbling.

As it happens I will be out tomorrow, so I have no intention of replying.

BL42 mentioned speaking to my supervisor - I have done so already. We're very much a family school and those that need to know are being very supportive. As are my amazing friends that are making sure I'm keeping busy and filling my life with lots of fun times.

One of the biggest challenges is seeing her everyday at school. Although it has just been in passing the last couple of days, she will be accompanying her class to my lessons next week. I have no doubt we will both be very professional, but jeez - I could really do without that.

I will just be absolutely blinding and fabulous.

Thank you to all that have been replying to my ramblings. I have seen in other threads the incredible support that is on this forum, and at times like this, you are all hugely appreciated by the many that are having a really rubbish time.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 09/05/21 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
Although it has just been in passing the last couple of days, she will be accompanying her class to my lessons next week. I have no doubt we will both be very professional, but jeez - I could really do without that.
I bet! One thing that made it easier for me to detach from my long-term XGF was blocking all forms of contact--including calls, texts, and social media. That didn't stop her from attending a couple of events I was leading and/or organizing, but less contact was better. I hope these shared classrooms are a temporary thing, and you or your school figure out a way to limit or eliminate them. I am still with your therapist, impressed by how bravely and intelligently you're navigating this change.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Out of the bottle - 09/06/21 01:56 PM
Mag,

You are handling all of this very well! You are going to have good days and bad days. The grief may be shockingly painful, and then it will subside and come again. Unfortunately this is not a smooth journey and will be bumpy and messy at times. First and foremost protect yourself. You are getting some great advice from these guys. I am impressed by their words. When feeling lost or confused, read it again. One day at a time.

Blu
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 09/06/21 08:00 PM
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement, BluWave & CW. They mean a lot.

Still, I hate this roller coaster of emotions. Today at school was another tough one, seeing each other around; no chats, just polite hellos. Arrrrggghhhh!

Then I went to see my lawyer. What a lovely bloke! He was the one who helped get our marriage legalised in this country, and fought for my citizenship. Wasn't cheap but he did an excellent job then. I came away feeling SO much better.

Apart from the enormity of heartbreak, I have been so worried about the financial aspect of the situation, but when things are laid out in black and white, I realised just how lucky I am in terms of my own financial security. His advice? Do nothing apart from set up separate bank accounts and divide anything that's in it now. Keep a running check of what she is spending on an excel document, and when (and if) she files for divorce, then worry about the house part later. I know she doesn't want to sell now, and hasn't spoken about a divorce. Don't worry, I am aware this could change in the future, but it won't happen tomorrow. The sun will still rise smile

The lawyer has no crystal ball, but was optimistic. He pointed out our age difference. He is in the same situation with 12 years difference between us (the older of the couple) and our wives. It was almost like a marriage counsellor meeting rather than with a lawyer.

This has NEVER been an issue between me & W before - she always seemed the most mature of us in some ways smile However, she has never been alone or lived alone before, and I guess I have to let her take her journey while I take mine.

I'm still not drinking, apart from dinners out which are few & far between and still working out. Feeling and looking pretty darn fine.

W & I will need to sit down and talk money at some point, but I'll leave that to her for the time being. I'll set up a separate account for me tomorrow. L also suggested leaving it up to W whether to take all her stuff or not. Keep quiet until she mentions it again.

When in doubt, do nothing.

Feeling so much better than just a few hours ago.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 09/07/21 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
When in doubt, do nothing.
I agree. Very important. Take your time to decide what actions/decisions to take.


Originally Posted by Magnhild
Still, I hate this roller coaster of emotions.
Embracing your emotions might be a good 180. We are emotional beings. The challenge is controlling them when needed (IE in the presence of others) and then fully expressing them when it is safe.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I'm still not drinking, apart from dinners out which are few & far between
I am not a big drinker, but saw the temptation during my sitch. I avoided drinking alcohol and every time I went out I drank a crazy amount of water. I did drink on two occasions. One was out with a group of ladies for a bachelorette party. The other was free drinks from the bartender one night. I guess my point is can you avoid alcohol completely while dealing with your current sitch?

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I'll set up a separate account for me tomorrow.
Perfect.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 09/23/21 07:54 PM
So latest update.

I have spent so, so many hours on this board and reading other people’s situations. Bluwave, if you ever read these threads you have been an absolute godsend to me. I have read your entire history. Your words are so full of compassion and intelligence, you have got me through these dark times. But there are so many others on this board whose stories and thoughts are immeasurable in their strength and wisdom.

The last couple of weeks have continued to be a rollercoaster, but I am learning to love the highs but be aware when the lows are looming.

I opened my separate bank account which, together with seeing an old friend the previous night and filling him in with the latest, left me raw. Unfortunately, as I was driving home I received a text from the W saying she was round and packing up more stuff. I made the cardinal sin of falling apart in front of her, and going against everything that I have learned on these forums. I tried to control how bereft I was feeling, but told her that although I am accepting that from her our relationship is over, I really, REALLY didn’t want this. Jeez, I was a mess, and am embarrassed at how weak I must have looked. Fuch it. I made a mistake. I will get there.

Since then, I have been actually really fine. Maybe I needed those last tears to seal it, and am now feeling controlled and resigned to whatever happens now.

I still see her around at school, which hurts. She came into my lesson a couple of days ago with her class, and looked dreadful. This was due to a stomach upset, and went home sick later that day. I had conflicting thoughts of a) texting her to hope she feels better and b) not contacting her as isn’t this the consequence of leaving a marriage and not having your partner give support? It was like having the angel and devil on each shoulder. Although I will probably get slammed on here for admitting this, I do want to be compassionate with everyone, so I sent the text.

Our mutual friends have been absolutely awesome, and even though they are supporting us both, they seem to have gravitated towards me more and more. They have been arranging lots of good fun things to do for which I am immensely grateful for.

On the health front, I am continuing to be fabulous and receiving a lot of flattering remarks from people.

Today I am strong. I feel as if I am turning a corner, and all I want now is for her to file for divorce so that I can really move forward. Do I still want the marriage to work? Hell yes, but I am resigned to the situation, and although still gutted, I do know that I WILL be OK. Today I am on the top of the rollercoaster. I’m pretty sure that the low dips may come, but I am getting more used to dealing with these.

I WILL be OK. It will take time, but roll with the good feelings.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 09/23/21 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
Unfortunately, as I was driving home I received a text from the W saying she was round and packing up more stuff. I made the cardinal sin of falling apart in front of her, and going against everything that I have learned on these forums.
Magnhild, we all make mistakes. You're doing your best, you recognized it as a mistake, and you're trying to improve. What more would you ask from your students?

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I had conflicting thoughts of a) texting her to hope she feels better and b) not contacting her as isn’t this the consequence of leaving a marriage and not having your partner give support? Although I will probably get slammed on here for admitting this, I do want to be compassionate with everyone, so I sent the text.
Detachment is treating her like anyone else rather than as a partner/friend/lover. We all have different "defaults" as to how we treat other people. If another teacher you interact with occasionally were sick, what would you do? If you'd seek out their cell # and text "I hope you feel better", then your actions are in-line with detachment, and if not they are not in-line with detachment. I'm sympathetic for co-workers who are sick, but would only express that if we were already interacting. E.g., they send me an e-mail "I'm sick so I can't complete project X". "Your health is the priority! I hope you feel better."

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Today I am strong. I feel as if I am turning a corner, and all I want now is for her to file for divorce so that I can really move forward.
Great! Beware of passive-aggressive actions that sometimes follow this feeling such as pushing her to divorce or reconcile. If you want to be D'd, you can D. If you want to stand, you can stand.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I WILL be OK. It will take time, but roll with the good feelings.
I'm so happy to see you in a good place. (:
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 09/23/21 10:38 PM
Magnhild,
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I opened my separate bank account which, together with seeing an old friend the previous night and filling him in with the latest, left me raw.
I can understand why that would make you emotional, but it's good you're protecting yourself financially.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Unfortunately, as I was driving home I received a text from the W saying she was round and packing up more stuff. I made the cardinal sin of falling apart in front of her, and going against everything that I have learned on these forums. I tried to control how bereft I was feeling, but told her that although I am accepting that from her our relationship is over, I really, REALLY didn’t want this. Jeez, I was a mess, and am embarrassed at how weak I must have looked. Fuch it. I made a mistake. I will get there.
That's why we recommended not being around when she came by or better yet being proactive in packing up her stuff yourself and leaving the boxes/bags on the porch or in the garage. That said, everyone makes mistakes like this and it's over now - just work on yourself to get stronger for the future.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Since then, I have been actually really fine. Maybe I needed those last tears to seal it, and am now feeling controlled and resigned to whatever happens now.
Glad you're feeling better, but expect it's over. There will be ups and downs...key thing is that you're treading up overall.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I had conflicting thoughts of a) texting her to hope she feels better and b) not contacting her as isn’t this the consequence of leaving a marriage and not having your partner give support? It was like having the angel and devil on each shoulder. Although I will probably get slammed on here for admitting this, I do want to be compassionate with everyone, so I sent the text.
I won't "slam" you, but probably best if you hadn't. You likely hoped (at least subconsciously) she would respond or appreciate the sentiment and it would help your sitch, and then it may you feel a bit worse when your expectations weren't met. Am I right? This isn't a average co-worker. It's hard to do something like that with her without expectations.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Our mutual friends have been absolutely awesome, and even though they are supporting us both, they seem to have gravitated towards me more and more. They have been arranging lots of good fun things to do for which I am immensely grateful for.
That's great! Friends and fun activities help immensely!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
On the health front, I am continuing to be fabulous and receiving a lot of flattering remarks from people.
Also great! Keep up the momentum (don't revert)!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I WILL be OK. It will take time, but roll with the good feelings.
Indeed!
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/03/21 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by BL42
I won't "slam" you, but probably best if you hadn't. You likely hoped (at least subconsciously) she would respond or appreciate the sentiment and it would help your sitch, and then it may you feel a bit worse when your expectations weren't met. Am I right? This isn't a average co-worker. It's hard to do something like that with her without expectations.

Actually, she responded very positively, so I'm glad I sent the text.

My IC suggested that I really needed to hear her say that the marriage is officially over for her, rather than her just needing some space. So, yep, we did have a relationship conversation last weekend. Geez, I ended up being her emotional punchbag again and, after having felt pretty centred for a while, I was a wreck. I did my best "This is not what I want, but I accept this is how you feel" speech. Even though she tells me that she had forgiven me for whatever sins I committed in the M, she is still so, so angry at me. I really wasn't that bad! But I did a good job of validating. My IC keeps telling me we both had a part to play in the demise of our M, but I didn't tell W that.

We parted with the agreement that she would get legal advice and move things forward.

I was very surprised that she came to see me at the end of school the next day. She said she wanted to check in about work stuff (I had mentioned the mess things are at school the previous day) to see how I was. She was off to see her dysfunctional family (her words) and thinks her mother has now given up living. She is really emotional about loads of stuff - not just me.

She texted a couple of days ago to let me know she had transferred her wages out of our shared account, as a matter of courtesy, I think. I responded by telling her she really needed to sort out what she wants for the settlement of assets and she asked for the contact of the lawyer. Have heard nothing since.

Since then I realised I have been pushing her forward on the D. Manipulation? Maybe. Passive aggressive? Probably. I now feel I would like us both to wait on the D. I'm too emotional to be able to handle it, and I'm guessing that she is too. Is this why some places the couple has to be separated for a year before they divorce?

I really don't think I'm holding on to the fact that she may change her mind at some point. I would just rather go through a D when I'm not on the rollercoaster that I'm on at the moment.

On the positive front, I've been getting on with GAL and having a lot of fun times with friends. I'll be honest, however much I'm told that this M is over, I still hold on to some hope. Why is this? I'm a rational person, yet even when things are laid out in black & white, part of me still hopes.

It's so difficult to detach when we work in the same place.

Just keep being fabulous.
Just keep being fabulous.
Just keep being fabulous.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 10/04/21 12:58 PM
Magnhild,
Originally Posted by Magnhild
My IC suggested that I really needed to hear her say that the marriage is officially over for her, rather than her just needing some space. So, yep, we did have a relationship conversation last weekend. Geez, I ended up being her emotional punchbag again and, after having felt pretty centred for a while, I was a wreck.
Ok, you heard it. Did that help? Try not to make it a pattern of "just need to hear it officially official one more time". As I'm sure others will mention, part of the reason for no R talks is they almost never change the situation, but more importantly because they can be a blow to you and set you back. You became a wreck because of the R talk. It set you back a bit. No worries, happens to everyone, but try to keep your head up and move forward from here.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I did my best "This is not what I want, but I accept this is how you feel" speech.
Don't think it's meant to be a speech. Just a simple statement then end it/walk away.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Even though she tells me that she had forgiven me for whatever sins I committed in the M, she is still so, so angry at me. I really wasn't that bad! But I did a good job of validating. My IC keeps telling me we both had a part to play in the demise of our M, but I didn't tell W that.
The anger is typical. My ExW was so angry at me and I couldn't understand it - she was the one having the affair. Part of it could've been things building up over a long time she never let out and part of it could be her not wanting to accept the blame for the affair and ending the marriage.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I was very surprised that she came to see me at the end of school the next day. She said she wanted to check in about work stuff (I had mentioned the mess things are at school the previous day) to see how I was.
This is starting to sound manipulative. She's divorcing you and angry and blaming you for everything...yet she stops by casually to "check in"? Don't let her play with your emotions like that. Tell her not to "stop by" and if that doesn't work tell your supervisor you need her to keep things professional.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
She was off to see her dysfunctional family (her words) and thinks her mother has now given up living. She is really emotional about loads of stuff - not just me.
My ExW cut her dad out of her life for 5 years. Now he's back in her life and watching the kids. My ExW would frequently complain about her mother and how "psycho" she was, yet leaned on her 100% to enable the affair/D. When she said those things about her family it made me and my family feel like we were closer to her. The only thing was...what was she saying to her family about us? What is your W telling her family about you? When people say bad things and complain about others to you, it's not unlikely they're doing the same behind your back.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I really don't think I'm holding on to the fact that she may change her mind at some point.
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I'll be honest, however much I'm told that this M is over, I still hold on to some hope. Why is this? I'm a rational person, yet even when things are laid out in black & white, part of me still hopes.
Are these two statements congruent?

Originally Posted by Magnhild
On the positive front, I've been getting on with GAL and having a lot of fun times with friends.

Great! Keep it up. GAL makes everything so much better.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
It's so difficult to detach when we work in the same place.
I bet. Tell her NOT to just "stop by" at work. If that doesn't work get your supervisor or HR to tell her.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Out of the bottle - 10/05/21 01:06 AM
Her "responding positively" isn't exactly the best thing. Did she text you about it? If not, she didn't want your compassion. And plus it's almost like you are paying attention to what she is doing in a creep way. Just forget about her and focus on you. Like R2C said, dress well, act well, be well.

She isn't your woman and you need to start acting like it, stat.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/05/21 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Her "responding positively" isn't exactly the best thing. Did she text you about it? If not, she didn't want your compassion.
Yes, she texted right back to say how pleased she was to hear from me.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
And plus it's almost like you are paying attention to what she is doing in a creep way.
Creepy? Oh no!! I don't want to be creepy!

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Just forget about her and focus on you. Like R2C said, dress well, act well, be well.
Thank you. I am trying.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
She isn't your woman and you need to start acting like it, stat.
Again, trying to do my best here.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 10/11/21 08:54 PM
Any updates?
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/13/21 06:25 PM
Thanks for checking in, Ready2Change. It's appreciated.

I am on these boards every day; reading different situations, trying to draw parallels and learning a great deal, thanks to the wisdom here.

It's still very tough. Better days, bad days...

I went away for the weekend with my tribe - the tribe that would usually include her, but hey ho. We had an amazing time in a most beautiful part of the country which I'd never been to before. Some new happy and funny memories. It was W's birthday while we we there. After a great deal of soul searching I sent her a text to say "Happy Birthday. I hope you have a great day". She replied later with a big, long text telling that me her mother has been admitted to hospital with pneumonia.

I felt so sorry. The first birthday after leaving must be tough with all her friends (remember we have a lot of mutual friends) being on a jolly without her. Her choice, I know, however, it must be hard. Then to compound it, spending the day with her very sick mother in hospital.

Not my problem anymore, but I am not heartless. Shoot me down again, but I reached out later that evening to find out how her mother was. A few texts back and forth about that with me finishing with "It must be such a worry for you all. I'm here if you need me". I know, I know. I should have kept things brief, but I do feel bad for her, however much she has chosen this.

So, not much to report.

More and more people at school are finding out. We had a "Cheese & Wine" do at school a few days ago. The amount of people that came up asking where my "lovely" wife was. I told them briefly that she'd left me and then moved the conversation on. I even had a kid today asking me "You used to wear a ring, Miss. Where is it?" Totally innocent, but still.

I see her at school as we both work there. Polite hellos. Professional hellos. It still kills me.

I am continuing with not drinking and working out. Now down 12 KGs and looking finer by the day smile We have a very intense school inspection starting tomorrow, so that has kept me busy, and takes up some headspace, which is a relief.

But I'm finding it hard to detach when I still love her so much. I'm hanging on day by day and committed to being the best possible woman I can be. I still think about her all the time, but keep those thoughts to myself. Occasionally break down, but getting stronger.

She's done, and I just need to get on with dealing with the hurt, but I still wish I could wake up from this nightmare.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 10/13/21 06:38 PM
Hi Magnhild,

Originally Posted by Magnhild
A few texts back and forth about that with me finishing with "It must be such a worry for you all. I'm here if you need me". I know, I know. I should have kept things brief, but I do feel bad for her, however much she has chosen this.
Okay, aiming my nerf gun at you. She chose to be single on her birthday. -Pew- -Pew- -Pew-

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Not my problem anymore, but I am not heartless. Shoot me down again, but I reached out later that evening to find out how her mother was. "It must be such a worry for you all."
On this one, no nerf darts from me. I would do the same for a random stranger on the street, a clerk at a grocery store, a co-worker, an acquaintance, a friend, or a partner. If this is you and not done with any expectations no complaints.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 10/14/21 12:08 AM
Magnhild,
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I went away for the weekend with my tribe - the tribe that would usually include her, but hey ho. We had an amazing time in a most beautiful part of the country which I'd never been to before. Some new happy and funny memories.
That's awesome! Perfect GAL. Hope you had fun with your friends.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
It was W's birthday while we we there. After a great deal of soul searching I sent her a text to say "Happy Birthday. I hope you have a great day".
Eh. You shouldn't be reaching out. It slows your detachment and gives her some relief from her actions...easing her into the situation and pain of losing the relationship.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Magnhild
Not my problem anymore, but I am not heartless. Shoot me down again, but I reached out later that evening to find out how her mother was. "It must be such a worry for you all."
On this one, no nerf darts from me. I would do the same for a random stranger on the street, a clerk at a grocery store, a co-worker, an acquaintance, a friend, or a partner. If this is you and not done with any expectations no complaints.
Disagree w/CWarrior on this one. She is not some random stranger or casual acquaintance. She is your W who left you and break up your marriage. You should not be providing comfort to ease her burden. You wouldn't text all that to a random stranger or or store clerk. You might say something if you happened upon them by happenstance, but in this case you initiated contact out of no where.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
The amount of people that came up asking where my "lovely" wife was. I told them briefly that she'd left me and then moved the conversation on.
Seems like a good response. Tell them the high level sitch without delving into details and then move on.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I even had a kid today asking me "You used to wear a ring, Miss. Where is it?" Totally innocent, but still.
That hurts. I had a friend's friend ask me "where's your beautiful wife?" at a party this weekend. He didn't know and didn't mean any harm, but it made me twinge a bit none the less.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I see her at school as we both work there. Polite hellos. Professional hellos. It still kills me.
Hopefully she's stopped just "swinging by" to chat?

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I am continuing with not drinking and working out. Now down 12 KGs and looking finer by the day smile
Awesome!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
But I'm finding it hard to detach when I still love her so much. I'm hanging on day by day and committed to being the best possible woman I can be. I still think about her all the time, but keep those thoughts to myself. Occasionally break down, but getting stronger.
That's tough. Keep working at it. It takes time, but you'll get there.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
She's done, and I just need to get on with dealing with the hurt, but I still wish I could wake up from this nightmare.
I completely understand. Actually sleep used to provide relief but then you always wake up with the realization of the truth. It'll get better. Hang in there.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 10/14/21 04:03 PM
Someone: "Where is your wife?"

You: "I have no idea. How are you?" or " I don't know. How are you?" or "Not sure. How are you?"

Hopefully subject is change to the other person.


If they ask about your R with W:

"It ran it's course" or "We are not together anymore." Then ask about the other person. Make it about them and not you. Example "I like your coat, where did you get it?" can be used instead of How are you?"
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/14/21 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Okay, aiming my nerf gun at you. She chose to be single on her birthday. -Pew- -Pew- -Pew-
Ha! That made me laugh. Brilliant. And fair enough.

Originally Posted by BL42
Eh. You shouldn't be reaching out. It slows your detachment and gives her some relief from her actions...easing her into the situation and pain of losing the relationship.

Originally Posted by BL42
She is your W who left you and break up your marriage. You should not be providing comfort to ease her burden.
Yes. I see that. Thanks for giving me a shake. I think I'm trying to learn the difference between keeping the way home smoothly paved (or however that goes) and showing her what's she missing by leaving the marriage.

Originally Posted by BL42
Hopefully she's stopped just "swinging by" to chat?
Yes, she has. Apart from her stopping me on the corridor to give me an update on her mother on Monday, nothing. That "nothing" does make it easier.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Someone: "Where is your wife?"
Sound advice given in your post.

Thank you to all for posting. I am feeling a lot stronger today. My IC was once again wonderful which keeps me on track.

A very dear friend got married a couple of years ago. She now lives in another country and a big group of the tribe all went over for the wedding. She set up a Whatsapp group tonight to tell her that her husband has been an utter twat to her and she's now divorcing. She sent us disturbing videos of his behaviour and utterly despicable comments that her husband had made to her.

I felt desperately sorry for her situation, and completely understand why she's divorcing him. However, it made me think, once again, my own marriage really wasn't that bad, yet here I am with the very real prospect of divorce. Incomparable situation, I know, but I still think that W (STBXW?) gave up on something rather than trying to work things out. I have changed, I have learned, I have grown. It's such a waste that she didn't want to stick around to see that.

More fool her, eh.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 10/14/21 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
However, it made me think, once again, my own marriage really wasn't that bad, yet here I am with the very real prospect of divorce. Incomparable situation, I know, but I still think that W (STBXW?) gave up on something rather than trying to work things out. I have changed, I have learned, I have grown. It's such a waste that she didn't want to stick around to see that.
I know exactly what you mean and often have the same feelings when I come across the couples who I know have had much worse situations in their relationship than ExW & I ever had (though that's my perception, obviously not hers at this point) and wonder "if they could work through it why couldn't we?"...especially with the young children involved. However, I have to remind myself there's not much use in that type of thinking because ExW & I are where we are regardless, and it's nothing to do with the other couples.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Out of the bottle - 10/15/21 09:52 AM
So here are the facts. 90% of all non- abusive relationship issues are fixable when you have 2 people on board totally committed to fixing them. If you only have one it’s a lost cause. Everyone has a couple friend that has been married for 20-25 years who outwardly have major issues but they are still together and because of so much resentment hate one another and haven’t slept together in 5 years. Does that sound appealing to you guys or would you rather be independent, spend quality time with your children parenting the way you choose and on your free time have a woman come over who can’t wait to jump your bones?

Maghild you are think in the forest. BL you are close to finding your way out. Eventually you will both see the trees.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 02:00 PM
I am struggling today. Really struggling.
I have been pretty OK in the big scale of things recently.
W texted me earlier in the week on the same day.
1st text: to tell me that her mother has been released from hospital. I didn't respond
2nd text: had I gone ahead and made the vet appointment she had told me she would make? I hadn't so, didn't respond.
3rd text: not to worry about the previous text as she had mis-read it as she was so stressed. I didn't respond.
She stopped by my room in school on Friday (it's Sunday now) about school stuff and then asked me if she could collect something from the house on Saturday. It was a stupid conversation about a washing rack. We have 3 and she needed one. I use all 3 so told her she had made her decision to move out, so no. She was visibly upset, and I realised I WAS being an arse. Anyway, she also needed her Halloween costumes and said she would be round the next day to pick them up. I made sure I was out as I wanted to give her time to do what she needed without me being around the house.
I have been being really strong and hardly initiating any contact since the day she left, but today I am really having a hard time holding things together. I want to reach out and let her know I want to do everything possible to make our marriage work. I realise that by giving her the space she wants, I don't think I have ever told her that I don't want to give up. Yes, I get the whole "detaching" thing, dropping the rope and all that, and I'm trying to do that. I'm still GALing my butt of.
But I need help from you wise people. If I do let her know how committed I am on working on getting us back on track, that seems to be going against everything I'm reading on here. However, she doesn't know that I am willing to do everything in my power to do so. Should I tell her?

On another note, my previous long term partner (going back over 20 years here) has been in contact recently. She is going through her own bad break up now, too. We chatted for over 3 hours last weekend. It's good to be able to reconnect, and we ended up talking about about her & I. She told me she has always regretted leaving me. I must admit, it felt good to hear that, albeit 20 years later!

I'm not sure why I'm such a wreck today, but please, any hand hold now would be greatly appreciated. I'm not as strong as I thought I was.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
2nd text: had I gone ahead and made the vet appointment she had told me she would make? I hadn't so, didn't respond.
Remember, DB’ing isn’t about being cold or distant—see Sandi’s rules. More “How would you treat a barrista?” This was a question, not an information al text, so i would answer. It’s okay to delay a bit as you’re busy GAL’ing, of course!

Originally Posted by Magnhold
I use all 3 so told her she had made her decision to move out, so no. She was visibly upset, and I realised I WAS being an arse.
Pain and anger can be hard to control. Good job noticing that wasn’t an attractive behavior and/or who you want to be as a person.

Originally Posted by Magnhold
On another note, my previous long term partner (going back over 20 years here) has been in contact recently. She is going through her own bad break up now, too. We chatted for over 3 hours last weekend. It's good to be able to reconnect, and we ended up talking about about her & I. She told me she has always regretted leaving me. I must admit, it felt good to hear that, albeit 20 years later!
Tread lightly. If you dive in, the bandaid of reconnecting with someone will temporarily mask the pain you’re feeling, but soon enough you’ll find it’s still there and you’ve reduced your R chances. Most relationships don’t work our, especially rebounds. This probably makes more sense to pursue when you’re certain it’s over for a period of time. Then, it may help you move on, as an extra wedge to reconciling.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 02:45 PM
Magnhild, in one breath you say you’ll do anything, in another you mention a possible replacement lover. I get the sense “anything” doesn’t include giving her time and space. As a starting point, how much time and space without knowing the outcome are you willing to give?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 02:53 PM
I apologize if that sounds harsh. Most of us had an “Ill do anything” moment. I think most successful reconciliations don’t come from that moment of terrible anguish. Maybe there’s an expansion of what you’ll accept, but still real limits and requirements driven by your values.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 03:20 PM
No, it doesn't sound harsh, but to clarify, it wasn't to mention a possible replacement lover. Far from it. My point was it was good to hear that she regretted breaking up with me! I don't want anything more than friendship on that count. I would just like to hear that my current W also has regrets.
But yep, this anguish is real.
And I can give W all the time and space she needs. I'm just confused if I've ever told her the lengths I would go to. I would like her to know how committed I am to making our M work.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 06:10 PM
Hi Mag

If you had told someone you didn’t want to be with them quite clearly and they come back “one last time” to tell you that they would go to any lengths to make it work, how would you feel?

Hint: it wouldn’t be good
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
If you had told someone you didn’t want to be with them quite clearly and they come back “one last time” to tell you that they would go to any lengths to make it work, how would you feel?

Hint: it wouldn’t be good

Ahh.. OK. Got it. Took me a while to get my head around. Yes, I see. I haven't sent anything to her. I took the advice of write it all down, then burn it.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 07:30 PM
Put yourself in her shoes. She has said she doesn’t want to be with you. By telling her you will go to any lengths to fix your M will only go to show that you are not listening to what she wants and that you are only thinking about what you want. Nobody, but particularly women, like to feel like they are not being heard and understood.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 10/24/21 08:15 PM
Magnhild,
Originally Posted by Magnhild
She stopped by my room in school on Friday (it's Sunday now) about school stuff and then asked me if she could collect something from the house on Saturday.
She seems to be in the habit of just "stopping by" at work. Selfish on her part and not helpful for your feelings. We talked about this before, but I recommend telling her NOT to stop in anymore. If that doesn't work, talk to your supervisor/HR - the message will be clearer coming from them.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
It was a stupid conversation about a washing rack. We have 3 and she needed one. I use all 3 so told her she had made her decision to move out, so no. She was visibly upset, and I realised I WAS being an arse. Anyway, she also needed her Halloween costumes and said she would be round the next day to pick them up. I made sure I was out as I wanted to give her time to do what she needed without me being around the house.
Pack up ALL her stuff (drying rack, Halloween costume...etc.) and put it out on the porch or in the garage. Tell her she has one chance to get anything else. Don't let her continually come by to pick things up...better to rip the band-aid right off...the trickle of tag-ups isn't helpful for your emotions.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I have been being really strong and hardly initiating any contact since the day she left,
Great!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
but today I am really having a hard time holding things together. I want to reach out and let her know I want to do everything possible to make our marriage work.
Don't do it!

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I realise that by giving her the space she wants, I don't think I have ever told her that I don't want to give up.
She knows. Better she starts thinking you're no longer an option.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
Yes, I get the whole "detaching" thing, dropping the rope and all that, and I'm trying to do that. I'm still GALing my butt of.
Awesome! Keep it up.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
But I need help from you wise people. If I do let her know how committed I am on working on getting us back on track, that seems to be going against everything I'm reading on here. However, she doesn't know that I am willing to do everything in my power to do so. Should I tell her?
NO! Don't do it. She won't respond how you hope she will, and it'll hurt you.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
On another note, my previous long term partner (going back over 20 years here) has been in contact recently. She is going through her own bad break up now, too. We chatted for over 3 hours last weekend. It's good to be able to reconnect, and we ended up talking about about her & I. She told me she has always regretted leaving me. I must admit, it felt good to hear that, albeit 20 years later!
Cool vindication, but don't get caught up in that.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
I'm not sure why I'm such a wreck today, but please, any hand hold now would be greatly appreciated. I'm not as strong as I thought I was.
They say it's like a rollercoaster. Ups and downs will be expected. Hang in there. Keep working out and GALing and over time it'll get better.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 10/25/21 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by BL42
I recommend telling her NOT to stop in anymore. If that doesn't work, talk to your supervisor/HR - the message will be clearer coming from them.

Pack up ALL her stuff (drying rack, Halloween costume...etc.) and put it out on the porch or in the garage. Tell her she has one chance to get anything else. Don't let her continually come by to pick things up...better to rip the band-aid right off...the trickle of tag-ups isn't helpful for your emotions.

Does this sound counter-intuitive to you? If it does then do it.

Setting up healthy boundaries is part of the process. Those are two good boundaries.

One of my frustrations with most posters is they get great advise and then they ignore it and do what they feel like. Don't be like most posters.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 10/25/21 09:37 PM
Thank you, all, so much for taking the time to respond. You're all very helpful, and I read your replies over and over.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
One of my frustrations with most posters is they get great advise and then they ignore it and do what they feel like. Don't be like most posters.

I won't be. It's half term holiday next week. I'm off to the UK to see my family who I haven't seen since December 2019 (COVID restrictions). I have a couple of days before I go that I will use to pack up the rest of her stuff and store it in the garage.

If she pops by my room at school again, and it's not work-related I will re-enforce the boundaries.

Thank you all, again. You have no idea how much your support means.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 11/20/21 09:17 PM
Seems like a month has gone by. I haven't posted for a while, although I am on the site practically every evening. I find it comforting to know that other people have been through this and survived. It somehow holds me together.

There has been no progress in my situation. I no longer see her around at school and she hasn't made any contact. I am continuing to GAL, work out, not drink, but it's still REALLY tough. I am giving her the space she needs and just putting one foot in front of the other, but it sometimes gets to me just how abandoned I feel.

I know, I know, I know the pain will become more manageable, but I rather hoped that four months down the line I would be in a better place. I guess I just need a bit of a hand hold right now.

Good things have happened. I managed to fly home to see my family a couple of weeks ago after nearly two years. That was awesome. It was so, so good to see everyone again and had a lot of family love thrown at me.

I've also booked an amazing holiday over Christmas and New Year with some friends. Sun, sea and fun times ahead. W & I would have family Christmases / fabulous holidays on a two-year cycle, and this year we were planning on going away somewhere. Unfortunately, her leaving me put an end to that idea. Sad to be getting a single-supplement room, but very, very happy to be going.

I still love her. I still miss her. I'm still DB my ass off, but phew, I find the NC so hard. Please tell me it will get easier.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 11/21/21 01:13 AM
Magnhild,

It will get easier. 4 months seems like a long time at first, but you'll look back in a year or two and wonder how fast the time went by. Glad you had a good visit with your family. It must've been nice to see them after so long. Exciting news booking that Holiday trip...I'm sure that'll be a lot of fun!

Sounds like you're doing the right things: working out, not drinking, setting boundaries about not seeing her at school. Keep putting in the work...you'll get there.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 11/29/21 07:55 PM
Just journaling...

I've been wondering if I'm going through the cycle of grief. I've done the denial, anger and think sometimes I getting to the depressed stage.

In all fairness she has done well on the "not coming to see me in my room" and I've arranged for another assistant to take her place when she'd normally be supporting her class in my lessons, but by god, there has been literally NO contact. Polite "hello" if we pass in the corridor but no more. We're treating each other as polite co-workers for weeks, and it does my head in.

I woke up a 4 the other morning bawling my eyes out. A real low point. Having completely no news of her seems even worse, and I still miss her dreadfully.

The idea of working with her is a tough one, and the chance of a position at a new school has come up. After 16 years of working at the same place, it may well be the time to move schools, if only so I don't constantly see reminders of her.

So I applied. Let's see what happens there.

On another note, she has managed to secure a position as a teacher (rather than an assistant) in our school starting in January, which will mean I will be seeing more of her than usual - staff meetings and so on. This made my decision to apply for a new job more necessary.

She was told this morning that she got the position. Then a strange thing happened.

She found me in the staff room and beckoned me into a work room to tell me she got the position and gave me a massive hug. It is really brilliant for her, and I am truly happy for her - it's something she has wanted for an eternity, and for this to fall into her lap is amazingly fortunate. But to hear her voice and to actually be hugged by her...felt so, so good.

Hopefully anyone who reads this will be proud of the way I just told her how happy I was for her and left it at that. No "I miss you so badly". No "Let's talk". No "Let's try to fix this". Not even a "Great, now you can start paying your part of the mortgage now you have a wage increase". Just calm and genuinely pleased to see her so happy.

At least I heard her voice. At least I had a hug. And deep down delighted that she wanted to tell me in person.

Don't fall for any breadcrumbs, eh.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Out of the bottle - 11/29/21 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by Magnhild
I've been wondering if I'm going through the cycle of grief. I've done the denial, anger and think sometimes I getting to the depressed stage.

Most of us do, there really is no avoiding it, just face it straight on.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Out of the bottle - 11/29/21 08:00 PM
Magnhild, yes, I'm proud of the way you handled that!
Posted By: BL42 Re: Out of the bottle - 11/29/21 08:44 PM
Magnhild,

Cadet's right on the grief cycle...you just need to face it and get through it. And you will.

Sounds like you handled the encounter with her and her new job well. Stayed strong, didn't beg, said congrats, and left it at that.

Originally Posted by Magnhild
She found me in the staff room and beckoned me into a work room to tell me she got the position and gave me a massive hug. It is really brilliant for her, and I am truly happy for her - it's something she has wanted for an eternity, and for this to fall into her lap is amazingly fortunate. But to hear her voice and to actually be hugged by her...felt so, so good.
She's still using you as an emotional crutch and demonstrating manipulative behaviors at times. Notice your feelings when she shared a joy with you and hugged you? She did that for her own sake, not out of consideration for your feelings. Stay strong.

Good luck with the application for the position at a new school...perhaps that'll be just the change you need!
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 11/30/21 11:39 PM
Thank you for all your responses. I feel like I have a gold star from CWarrior smile

I was very surprised to get a text from her when I got back from school today:

"Are you home? Can I stop by?" The first contact for many weeks. The first coming round to our home for many more weeks.

I said OK.

She came round to bring some boxes to the garage. Then came in. I offered her a cup of tea. I'm polite, you see.

She spoke about her new position (as a teacher). I told her how great for her, how pleased, etc. We chatted about school for a while. I miss chatting with her about daily school life so the conversation flowed easily. Remember, this is the first time we have spoken for quite a few weeks.

W: Are you here from Christmas?
Me: No
We: Oh, are you going home? (UK)
Me: No. I'm going away.

I didn't need to tell her, but told her about my trip to Mexico anyway.
Me: It is the year we usually go on some f***-off holiday, so I'm going to go anyway.
W: (Visibly upset) I'm jealous.
Me: Well.... you know....

W: How are you doing? she asks.
Me: Fine - up and down, you know
W: What did you tell the nephews & nieces? (I'd texted her before I went to the UK to ask her how to approach the fact we'd split up)
Me: They didn't ask about you. (They hadn't)
W: .... Oh....ouch.... I must take a note of their birthdays. They are my godchildren too.
Me: Sure. It's xxx birthday today.

I saw her expression.

W: How's the not-drinking going?
Me: Great. Not drinking during the week. A couple of glasses if I go out for dinner
W: I'm so pleased. Except when we hugged the other day, you smelt of alcohol.


WHHHHHAAAAATTTTTT?????

I really don't drink anymore!! It was a deciding factor for her to leave me, and I've done SO well from not drinking. Not for her, but I don't want to be that person anymore. Yep, I was gutted that she thought I still am. I was really pissed off about that but told her although I'm not accountable to anyone any more, I've stopped. She started having tears in her eyes, but I remained calm. Just pissed off that she "smelt" it when that was so obviously wrong. I'm hurt that she can't even see truth.

I had a dinner with friends booked, so when I realised the time told her that I had to leave. She said she'd chuck the cats out so I could go if I needed and lock up.

So... off I went. Leaving her here. In our home. With the fire on. With me gone.

Just come back from dinner with friends. All lovely, and am now wondering how I managed.

In some ways, delighted that at least we've had some contact. AND I didn't bring up any relationship talk AT ALL.

Sad, because it's the first time in months that we've sat together on the sofa just chatting. It felt so good.

Had a great evening, but checked in the garage and seen all the boxes she'd brought to pack up the rest of her stuff.

I'm doing OK. Pleased we had positive interaction, but taking deep breaths not to fall apart.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Out of the bottle - 12/01/21 12:59 AM
I think you did great.

You displayed GAL, dinner with friends and a vacation coming up.

You didn’t have R talks and you were the one to end the interaction. That’s exactly what you want.

I would surmise that you’ve left her with some things to think about. Now is the time to double down on your GAL. I don’t want to get your hopes up but I wouldn’t be surprised if she reaches out again in the near future.
Posted By: Magnhild Re: Out of the bottle - 12/01/21 10:50 AM
Thanks for your words, Thornton.

Originally Posted by Thornton
I don’t want to get your hopes up but I wouldn’t be surprised if she reaches out again in the near future.

That's so good to hear. My god, it's all I want. But I have no expectations. It was a very positive step forward, but she gave no indication of having changed her mind. I didn't ask.

Again... no expectations.

Off to do a bit of GALing and then hitting the gym. Not the bottle - the gym smile
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Out of the bottle - 12/01/21 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Thornton
I don’t want to get your hopes up but I wouldn’t be surprised if she reaches out again in the near future.
Originally Posted by Magnhild
That's so good to hear. My god, it's all I want. But I have no expectations.
I might suggest that you decline an in person meeting. Be crazy busy. Many LBS make themselves too available, which I believe is a mistake.
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