Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: smilie Picking Up the Pieces After WAW Goes Again #3 - 07/23/21 08:40 PM
This is a continuation from my previous thread, here:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2921284

For anybody following, my previous threads can be found here:

#1 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920063
#2 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920619
#3 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2920922
#4 - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2921284

smile
Originally Posted by CWarrior
My XGF and I were both comfortable eating alone in restaurants. If you enjoy something, why do it only when you have a partner with you?

I suppose that it's nice to share the experience with somebody and more than likely it's what one gets used to have gone out to eat with somebody for 20 years.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Some ideas--1) sit at the bar and strike up a conversation, 2) observe the decor, menu, scenery, and people, 3) bring a book, laptop, or something else to do. I'm probably doing more of #1 and #2 when traveling, and more of #3 when I'm visiting an establishment I know well

Yep! I've been doing all of that these past couple of days. Talking to people, interrupting their conversations if appropriate (I actually came across a guy who s familiar with the town I used to work in and the stbxw's home town - how strange!). And I came across a woman who daughter studied in the city a 10 minute train ride from where I live now. Small world.

I'm not a shy guy now - I used to be - and I needed to talk to a lot of locals to learn about the area as quick as I could, and despite appearances, the place where my new house could be is one of the best areas. I must say that the people are much friendlier than people down here, that's for sure.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
I was a waitress and bartender in my youth and there's nothing I love more than a slightly annoyed server who will tell you everything about the restaurant, the staff, and the entire area if you give them the chance.

Yes they did, well the area in any case. I was quite surprised actually that even though people run the town down and say it's naff, they keep saying that it's a nice area. It is tough eating alone when you're not used to it - I'm a people watcher also.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
A little town by the sea sounds lovely, but if locals are telling you outright you won't want a house it's probably a safe bet that they are right. I hope you gets some clarity on all this housing stuff. Still wishing you lots of luck

Although it is rough it's quite a good base and the seafront is literally a 2 minute walk from the house. There is a golf course over the road and cafe's up the street - found a nice one too that's open year-round. It will take a lot of getting used to, but I think that maybe it could be a good stepping stone to just give me a break and get myself sorted out

It's typical seaside resort in the UK but not a tourist one, hence it being rundown as there's no tourist trade to bring in the money. It's got a nice loooooong promenade though about 4 miles or so in length - takes ages to walk it anyway.

The house in another area is when the locals were saying that's it's not that brilliant of an area, although by looks, it seemed ok to me. I think they were indicating that it was a bit rough, as in people.
Originally Posted by Ready2change
You can look at the glass as half empty or half full.

Now here you have a very valid point and please believe me when I say that I'm generally errr on the side of empty. I can be a bit of a snob when it comes to looking at things as I have lived in nice areas most of my life, but I do wonder if it would be a nice little place to slow down, detach and rebuild myself.

Things are cheaper there also and I've found a cheap gym, although I don't know how you are supposed to meet people seeing as you have to practice "distancing" <-- that glass empty thing again.

Originally Posted by Ready2change
One of my hobbies is photography. I am sure I could spend weeks at your town taking photographs.

Yeah, me too. I have a couple of semi-pro cameras although they are getting a bit old now, but still take good pictures. It's just my eyes are shot to bits and that's why I haven't used them in a few years.

I talk to loads of people when I can and certainly a skill that I may need to harness a bit more. I have a good sense of humour, so that's a good thing and I don't play with my phone - not really into them, just serves a purpose. I do fight against myself though, as like you, it is not my natural 'thing'.

The only thing that seriously worries me is the 'pandemic' situtation. A lot of people that I would have spoken to, are now scared of people! Go figure.
Originally Posted by smilie
The only thing that seriously worries me is the 'pandemic' situtation. A lot of people that I would have spoken to, are now scared of people! Go figure.

That's a shame! In the US, it's rare for people to avoid conversation due to the pandemic. Most around me just get vaccinated, social distance, and/or wear a mask. Maybe there's a trick--watch how they interact with others? I only avoid people who won't honor my preferred distance. I will set a distance and back away 2-3x before I give up on their ability to honor my boundary with them.

Originally Posted by smilie
I suppose that it's nice to share the experience with somebody and more than likely it's what one gets used to have gone out to eat with somebody for 20 years.

I was married and lived with that woman for 10yrs. I think the boundary between a healthy interdependence and co-dependence may be, "I like going to restaurants--and it's even better if she comes" vs "I like going to restaurants--but it's only fun if she comes." You mentioned one of your action plans when your STBXW first wanted out was to become more independent. Anyway, food for thought. If I only ate out with my XW, I wouldn't have eaten as much Malaysian cuisine. (:
Well, now that I'm on my own again it will give me the time and space to re-calibrate and get used to going out to eat on my own again. Haven't done this for a couple of decades, so I will need to find my feet once again.

It would be good to have some form of counselling too, to help me heal and help find my way through this. I would prefer to talk with somebody in person, but they seem to be doing it totally online now as far as I can see - bit of a shame. I also don't know what type of counselling to go for, for the best results - ordinary counselling, a psychologist, relationship, EMDR or something different.

Any ideas and experiences in this area would be helpful. I read here about people having counselling and to me it seems like a good thing to do in this situation where things just come out of the blue with no lead up and you're just plunged into some kind of whirlwind or cyclone and getting what seems like deeper into a mess and struggling to keep your (my) head above water. Not sure if that's a correct viewpoint or not?
Smilie, I have found it helps to see this all as a challenge to overcome, something to be excited about overcoming. A good book about this is The Obstacle Is The Way by Ryan Holiday. Currently I am in lockdown, coming up on a month now, with only my S4 for company 50% of the time. I am enjoying to though, and see the lockdown as a gift to practice being comfortable and happy alone. Everything is how we perceive it.

Re IC, I have experienced both CBT and EMDR now. CBT is the standard, here anyway, and can be very good depending on finding the right therapist/counsellor. It took me a few gos until I got lucky and found an amazing lady, helped me immensely. I have also been to a few EMDR sessions now, and this seems to be really powerful for addressing the hidden childhood traumas and resolving those. The theory behind it is very interesting.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Smilie, I have found it helps to see this all as a challenge to overcome, something to be excited about overcoming. A good book about this is The Obstacle Is The Way by Ryan Holiday.

I wish I could be excited about all this, but it would appear that I just cannot stop panicking and feeling so anxious that I can't keep still. Absolutely everything is getting on top of me and I am finding things really difficult.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Currently I am in lockdown, coming up on a month now, with only my S4 for company 50% of the time. I am enjoying to though, and see the lockdown as a gift to practice being comfortable and happy alone. Everything is how we perceive it.

It must be tough. I used to be ok here on my own all day, but since the stbxw left I seem to have lost that feeling and now I feel like I have to get out or just scream.

I'm focusing on filling a huge form in that has be to be back (about my illness) by 6th August. Apparently it was dated 6th July but I only received it on Monday. So there's an extra worry as the form isn't set up for my illness and therefore I am having to type a huge document, that I can't print - another worry. Apparently the library has a printer.

Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Re IC, I have experienced both CBT and EMDR now. CBT is the standard, here anyway, and can be very good depending on finding the right therapist/counsellor. It took me a few gos until I got lucky and found an amazing lady, helped me immensely. I have also been to a few EMDR sessions now, and this seems to be really powerful for addressing the hidden childhood traumas and resolving those. The theory behind it is very interesting.

It's the same here, CBT seems to be the way to go, but that's not really happening for me. It's by phone only for 30 mins a week and by the time I answer how things have been, that's basically the end of the session. It's state funded.
Originally Posted by smilie
I wish I could be excited about all this, but it would appear that I just cannot stop panicking and feeling so anxious that I can't keep still. Absolutely everything is getting on top of me and I am finding things really difficult.


Its still early for you Smilie, just keep at it, things will improve. Its been 13 months for me, so I'm further along.

Originally Posted by smilie
It's the same here, CBT seems to be the way to go, but that's not really happening for me. It's by phone only for 30 mins a week and by the time I answer how things have been, that's basically the end of the session. It's state funded.


That doesn't sound like it is doing all that much for you. Is it through the NHS? Can you afford to go privately?
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
Its still early for you Smilie, just keep at it, things will improve. Its been 13 months for me, so I'm further along.

You mean I have further to go before it gets better? Argh! smile Regardless how I feel, I still keep pushing through as things need to be done. The challenge is this condition I have and it's really seriously playing up bad because of all of this, making things significantly harder.

Originally Posted by smilie
That doesn't sound like it is doing all that much for you. Is it through the NHS? Can you afford to go privately?

Yes it is and no it's not doing anything. I shall wait until I move before I start looking, as I need to budget it in and although I would like to start sooner, I cannot guarantee my Internet connection due to my stbxw probably cancelling it at any time and she is refusing to communicate via my lawyer (or otherwise) which makes things much harder. I would prefer to see people in person, but it would appear that the majority of counsellors, etc., are now using the internet exclusively, so it's a bit impersonal. The good thing about that is that you can keep the same counsellor wherever you are. I was looking at people around where I will be living (if all goes to plan this week) and absolutely everybody is doing it just online! Better than nothing, right?
I found CBT + Exposure super helpful in dealing with specific anxiety. Anxiety is irrational but can't be reasoned away. I only talked to my therapist for 30min once a month. I just kept going through the steps: (a) predicting how much many things would bother me, (b) tackling something that would bother me but not too much, (c) if I felt stuck, checking what negative thought pattern I was using. The 30min sessions basically helped keep me at right-level challenges, and sometimes break down the biggest challenges into more meaningful pieces. It's the best therapy I've ever done. If you can't force yourself to do something you know you want to or should do it could be helpful.

I found talk therapy was more helpful for complex topics. E.g., your attempts to demonize your STBXW would be effectively challenged and you'd gain more perspective. In my case, it helped me overcome *some* childhood trauma by reviewing the incidents with new eyes. Sometimes, a child believes they have more power over a situation than they actually do.

I have not found my ideal treatments for childhood trauma or basiphobia yet.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I found CBT + Exposure super helpful in dealing with specific anxiety. Anxiety is irrational but can't be reasoned away. I only talked to my therapist for 30min once a month. I just kept going through the steps: (a) predicting how much many things would bother me, (b) tackling something that would bother me but not too much, (c) if I felt stuck, checking what negative thought pattern I was using. The 30min sessions basically helped keep me at right-level challenges, and sometimes break down the biggest challenges into more meaningful pieces.

Ah brilliant, so not long sessions then or very frequent. So my CBT girl is on about me keeping a worry diary of things that I'm worried about. The thing is because it's the state (NHS), she has to go through certain questions before and after each session, these take about 10 mins, so I only get 20 mins. I don't get chance to do a worry diary too much, as I am working on them all at the same time as they need to be addressed at the same time. I'll see what she has to say tomorrow.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
It's the best therapy I've ever done. If you can't force yourself to do something you know you want to or should do it could be helpful.

I've got plenty of those. I tend to see things from a more negative perspective if I can't get to do the things I want to do and they go on not being done for a long time. This is what has happened over the past couple of years waiting on my stbxw to be onboard with things - ends up in a loop of learned helplessness and I end up losing motivation. Things can be on the change soon hopefully smile

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I found talk therapy was more helpful for complex topics. E.g., your attempts to demonize your STBXW would be effectively challenged and you'd gain more perspective. In my case, it helped me overcome *some* childhood trauma by reviewing the incidents with new eyes. Sometimes, a child believes they have more power over a situation than they actually do.

I've never usually found this type of therapy too useful but I do like talking about things that I stress about or have issues around. But nothing gets sorted. I think it needs to be a little of that and then more solutions focused.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I have not found my ideal treatments for childhood trauma or basiphobia yet.

Basiphobia - looked it up, how strange, are you tall then by any chance? Tall people as they are growing up tend to be self-conscious about being taller than their peers and tend to slouch to make themselves appear shorter than they would if they stood erect.

Anyway, you would probably be able to get that one out by finding a good NLP Practitioner who is very conversant with the "Fast Phobia Cure" (although you can't say cure now, so it's the "Fast Phobia Model"). You can get rid of a phobia in 5 minutes. Find somebody though who is also familiar with timeline therapy as they can then combine the two and get an even better result.
Just a quick update. Statements are in from the savings account. Money was starting to be removed each month from May 2019. So there's that then - 5 months after starting work at a new firm in the city, which I believe is a common theme for affairs?
Hi Smilie,

Basiphobia is common. Many basiphobics mistakenly believe they have acrophobia. If standing next to the railing on a 3rd floor balcony freaks you out, you have acrophobia. If youre only afraid when youre walking along a ledge where theres no rail and a chance of falling, you have basiphobia.

Ive read many studies on acrophobia and basiphobia. Unfortunately, no 5-minute cures yet. If anyone discovers one theyll be a wealthy woman or man.

Exposure therapy is slightly effective. The problem is exposures have to be similar. Climbing a rope, climbing a wall, and walking along an edge 30 up are all different exposures.

Improving your balance is moderately effective. Basiphobia is more rational than other phobias. And yet, its consequence (shaking when in an exposed place) isnt rational.

I will check out the Fast Phobia Model. I bet it has some useful wisdom. (:
Ok so the panic has set in - things are going wrong for me so much, yesterday it has gotten worse. I have a claim for maintenance from the stbxw going through the courts and waiting to hear. I am also waiting to hear about the house I arranged to rent.

I spoke with my lawyer yesterday about a letter she is writing to my stbxw lawyer as information still hasn't been provided for utilities online accounts. I'm not too sure about all of this at the moment and I asked that they are paid until the end of August as I have paid the rent here until then and my stbxw is also responsible for that, so it is only fair she pay the utilities seeing as they re in her name and she isn't giving the information so I can change things.

I mentioned to my lawyer that I have found an cheaper place to live, but it's in a different part of the country. She asked me how much the rent was and I said and I also mentioned that the only way I could secure the property was to offer a year rent up-front, as I haven't got an income and otherwise I would need financial referencing to be done and a guarantor - financial referencing would fail as I can't prove income and I don't have a guarantor. So the only way is to use some of my pension fund to pay the rent up-front.

She then told me that this would affect my claim for maintenance as the money wasn't coming out of income, but savings and that the only way to still have a claim is to pay the rent from income, which I can't do. The other option is to offer my stbxw an updated amount for maintenance (a lesser amount due to reduction in rent) and then have that agreement ordered by the court. The chances are that she would refuse this as she is claiming that she hasn't got any money left at the end of each month.

The thing is I will lose the house if I don't pay the rent up front, which means I will have to pay more rent here. Meanwhile my pension fund money is being used up with legal costs and moving costs. I can't seem to get moving on sorting out the house stuff as I don't know what's happening and I'm panicking really bad all of the time - I just can't seem to get a break. The more honest I am the more I get put in an impossible position.

I desperately need some help and there is none. Nobody will help me - nobody. Even my friend took something I said in a different way that it was meant yesterday and now he's annoyed. I only indicated that I've had enough as this is way too much for me and he took it that I was putting him under too much emotional strain and that I can't expect him to be there. So that's that then. He is on the autism spectrum and doesn't really like too regular contact and has always mentioned that he'll do what he can. This has really upset me as he has taken something in a totally different way that I can't even see.

I have 2 weeks to get everything sorted and I don't know what to do now. If I rent this new house then I lose my maintenance claim for rent (which seems mad) as it's not coming from income, if I lose this house then I can't afford to remain here as the rent is too high. Both way's my available pension fund gets smaller with lawyers costs, removal costs and rent up front. I feel like throwing the towel in here and that I'm up against something that I don't know.

What an awful feeling again and I thought it was getting better until that call with my lawyer yesterday. I thought they were supposed to help me, but she seems to be working against everything that I do. Even my state benefit payment is in question because of my pension money being triggered to come out by the stbxw. I'm really stitched up here.

I am panicking so much that I can't sleep or think properly and things seem to be getting worse for me. Quite frankly, I'm not sure how much of this I can handle anymore - it is way, way too much now. I have never before experience stress like this in my entire life and I have never before made decisions that are fair and make sense and effect only me, only to have them used against me by the person who is supposed to be fighting my corner - and with this condition I have, it's much worse.

I can't lose this house so will have to pay the rent up-front. There is only 3 days left to give notice on this place - otherwise I have to pay more rent, so I have no wiggle room at all.

What have I done to deserve all of this? What have I done in my life that fate/karma is dealing this awful hand? All I have done in my life is be ok towards others and help them when I can. Now I'm alone with this illness and stress, with nobody to help me and the world working against every decisions I make.

This truly is an awful life I am living. A nightmare beyond that which I could imagine.
smilie, not going to lie. This latest update is disturbing to me. I sincerely hope that you can find therapy somehow someway. This last post seems desperate and hopeless. Two very scary things in terms of mental health. I urge you to reach out to a crisis line even, because I fear the path that this kind of thinking can lead you down. Please, seek help. This latest post screams out for more than this forum can provide to you.
Ok well that's a lot. And clearly you're not doing ok. So let's take this one step at a time. Currently you have a place to be warm and dry. You have food if you get hungry. Assess the things around you. Are you safe, are comfortable, is your body in tact? If the answer is yes, hooray! You're alive and mostly well. Take a few deep breaths. Slow your breathing down, and try to slow your mind.

I need you to understand that things could truly be worse. You could be homeless, you could be ailing, you could be starving. But right now for the most part, you are ok. Not great. Not wonderful but ok. And ok is all that's necessary. Now that's not to negate how you feel. How you feel is valid but valid feelings don't mean they are the truth. Smilie, you're being incredibly fatalistic over some pretty standard stuff that happens with divorce and having to deal with government allowances. From what I read, your lawyer isn't against you. She is telling you exactly what will happen given the choices you have in front of you. That's her job. You pay the year up front for rent and you ask stbxw for less in maintenance. Which sure she could refuse, but here that's what the court is for. I'm not sure how different that is over there. As far as I know your wife can refuse all she wants but it's ultimately up to the court just the way it is here. All of us who've been divorced had to eat some sh!t sandwiches in the agreement to get it over with. And it was a money suck for all of us too. This is all normal. Is it fun? NOPE. But it is normal and to be expected.

2 weeks is a lot of time. Your whole life can change in 2 weeks. Your whole life can change over night. We know this. You have 2 weeks to weigh your options and make some executive decisions. You don't need to change your glass half empty view on life and trade it in for some toxic positivity, but you do need to stop smashing the glasses to bits simply because you think they're half empty not half full. Make the decision that puts a roof over your head and stops the money bleed sooner than later. What ever that is. Talk to your lawyer again and ask for clarification and details if you can't understand what she means and the likelihood of you winning if your stbxw contests things. If you truly believe this lawyer doesn't have your best interests in mind find a new one. But I really do think you're misinterpreting things in the same way your friend misinterpreted you.

Also you need talk therapy. Like a month ago. CBT is great but there are online programs you can work with. Ask your physician if there's one through NHS or one they recommend. The health care system I work with here had me on online CBT for my depression concurrently with talk therapy so I could afford to do both. You need a person face to face who can hear what you're saying and validate you or give you a new perspective. They also offer up tools to manage symptoms and on way to communicate better. Not only sharing but also receiving information. I truly think you'd benefit greatly from having someone to simply talk to who can offer you some comfort and some tools.

Smilie, I understand that this all seems very hard, and like it's too much, but you have to understand and believe this is all temporary. And you didn't do anything to deserve this but this is what your life is right now and your only choices here are to lay down and let this situation and stbxw just happen to you or you can stand up and take control of what little you have complete control of here which is yourself and your future. None of this is going to be easy, or quick. You have to accept the reality of the situation before you and accept that while it's a hard road to travel you will reach the other side. You aren't alone. And this isn't the worst thing that has or will happen to you. This is one of many obstacles you've already traversed. Just slow down. You got this.
Hey Smilie,

I don't have any advice pertaining to your specific problem.

However, I can tell you this. There have been a few times in my life that I could not see a way out. I literally had no options and my life felt like it was crumbling around me. I've been in very, very dark and scary places in my life before. And every single time, somehow, some way, a path revealed itself, often at the very last moment.

Like Steve suggests, make calls, ask for help, and don't give up. I promise things will get better if you can just ride out this storm.

I'm not sure if you are religious, but I often sought comfort in the church. Speaking to a preacher is free, and they can often point you in a direction to get help.

You have the strength to get through this, I promise you.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, not going to lie. This latest update is disturbing to me. I sincerely hope that you can find therapy somehow someway. This last post seems desperate and hopeless. Two very scary things in terms of mental health. I urge you to reach out to a crisis line even, because I fear the path that this kind of thinking can lead you down. Please, seek help. This latest post screams out for more than this forum can provide to you.



I also second this.
Smilie,

which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can.
Originally Posted by smilie
I spoke with my lawyer yesterday about a letter she is writing to my stbxw lawyer as information still hasn't been provided for utilities online accounts. I'm not too sure about all of this at the moment and I asked that they are paid until the end of August as I have paid the rent here until then and my stbxw is also responsible for that, so it is only fair she pay the utilities seeing as they re in her name and she isn't giving the information so I can change things.

Smilie, if I understand correctly, she's being generous in paying your utilities, but you feel very uncomfortable because you're uncertain when it may stop. Does your lawyer believe you can force her to pay or provide account details? I wonder why this isn't as simple as--"Thank you for covering my utilities for July. Are you going to cover August? If not, I'd like to transfer the account to my name, so I can avoid costly termination and reconnection fees." For me, legal letters are what I send when they have teeth when I can enforce things--e.g., make her pay rent. Unless your STBXW is expected to cover legal fees, most lawyer's hourly rates are more than the cost of a month's utilities and it wouldn't make financial sense to engage a lawyer to draft such a letter.

Originally Posted by smilie
The other option is to offer my stbxw an updated amount for maintenance (a lesser amount due to reduction in rent) and then have that agreement ordered by the court. The chances are that she would refuse this as she is claiming that she hasn't got any money left at the end of each month.

Whatever the court deems fair, they usually enforce. If you're expecting her to be more generous than the court deems fair, I'd drop that line of thinking, unless she's strongly indicated such intentions. I'd try to focus more on the expected outcome (per your Lawyer) rather than your XW's offers.

Originally Posted by smilie
The thing is I will lose the house if I don't pay the rent up front, which means I will have to pay more rent here.

It's a math problem, right? Lawyer, if I continue paying rent, what is the guideline amount the court is likely to order her to pay? Laywer, if I pay rent a year in advance, what is the guideline amount the court is likely to order her to pay? Your lawyer should be able to answer both questions. Then, which works out best for you? Again, as you make these calculations, don't expect any extra charity or generosity from your XW. If it happens, great, but don't expect anything like that.
Originally Posted by MrBrside
which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can
That is so nice of you to offer.

I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.
Originally Posted by MrBrside
which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can
That is so nice of you to offer.

I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.
Originally Posted by MrBrside
which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can
That is so nice of you to offer.

I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.
Originally Posted by MrBrside
which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can
That is so nice of you to offer.

I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.
Originally Posted by MrBrside
which county of the Uk are you ?

If you are not the other side of the country, im happy to spend a few hours going over options logically one evening. You sound like you are in a bad place, so would happily assist if i can
That is so nice of you to offer.

I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.
Thank you all for your responses, I truly am sincerely grateful.

LONG POST WARNING

It's been a mad day or two. Yes emotions are up high due to the new information and I'm also coming off those anti-depressants that were causing so many issues. I could feel the level of anxiety increase after I hadn't taken the for about 3 days. They also interferred with my condition and I though my head was going to explode, it felt like a pressure cooker and thinking was almost impossble - which didn't help.

I had counselling CBT arranged yesterday by telephone, as this is standard now, and they didn't call. I phoned them and my counsellor was in training. She was supposed to have told me last session, but she didn't. I felt really let down by this. I agree that I would prefer face-to-face style counselling at this stage and have mentioned this both the the doctor and counselling service, but they insist on CBT in the first instance. However, she called me today as she had a cancellation and she is going to refer me to relationship counselling, which she thought would be more relevant to my problem.

Panic or high anxiety, is nasty and it comes when I feel overwhelmed, when I can't see that I have any options and that I'm backed into a corner, just like that caged animal people speak of here about WS/WAS who lash out, but instead I 'lash-in' and beat myself up. I try everything - breathing, visualisation, guided meditation, going for a walk - absolutely nothing stops it and it goes for hours.

When my neurology is under this stress I literally cannot think straight until it calms down significantly. I saw my doctor yesterday after coming off the anti-depressants and he is now trying Vestibular Sedatives! Didn't know there was such a thing, but it will be interesting to see if they have any effect on my vestibular symptoms. At least they're not making my head feel awful.

I spoke with my lawyer yesterday morning and she advised to hold off a few days in deciding completely about the other house, as we wait for the courts to return their findings about if they will hear the case in court. I think this will give her some indication. The only thing is, is that I had a phone call from the rental agent for the new house yesterday afternoon. I didn't know how to have the conversation of waiting a few days before signing contracts or anything, as if I can get maintenance paid, then I could use those payments for the rent (as it's income) and wouldn't then eat into my pension money), if I do use my pension money, then I can't claim for rent in the maintenance as it has come out of savings, not income. I have agreed previously that I would pay rent from 14th August, so I dare say that the contracts can wait a few days to give me some leeway - I have put down a holding deposit on the weekend.

I ended up calling them this morning and all they wanted to ask on behalf of the landord, was if I wanted to rent for 2 years at a slightly discounted rate (�20/mnth less). I said that was perhaps too long-term considering I wasn't sure if it was the place I wanted to be and thanked them for the offer. I also confirmed how long it would take for the referencing - a couple of weeks, so that should tide me by until we hear from the courts.

So that was a load off my mind. I also was able to explain the situation that it was best for me to wait for the courts so that I knew what was happening financially and whether the rent would come out of maintenance payments, or my pension fund.

Another good thing is that I spoke to my other friend for almost two hours yesterday morning. I haven't spoken with him for a while and he was basically saying that I have to do what's best for me. He can understand the difficulty I face in dealing with this stuff (I know I sound pathetic and I wish I didn't have this vestibular issue) and basically says that I should just do what I felt comfortable doing last week and anything that the lawyer can get in terms of maintenance is a bonus. He's right, of course. I wasn't even factoring in any maintenance payments when considering renting this other house and moving, so anything extra whatever that may be, is a welcome addition. But if it's only a few days to see what happens in the courts, then it makes sense to facilitate that to see if there are any more options available to me.

I also went to the Osteopath yesterday as I have been waiting to see him for 9 weeks and have been in phenomonal pain with my neck and ribs, which has increased my stress levels a huge amount. He's a kind gentle guy and takes the time to sit and listen. He also knows the stbxw as we used to go together. Then he treated me and just laying there with him doing stuff felt really soothing and I realised at that moment that my body and brain just needs to stop and rest for a while but there's too much to do and it's being forced to just keep going on. Tears quietly rolled down my cheek - so I must make time for that - stopping - and shall see if I can do some meditation. My appointment was for 45 minutes and he extended the treatment to 90 minutes at no extra charge as he needed to work on my head and neck to help get me sorted. That appointment was the less I had talked to him over the months and when I did speak I was amazed that it was mainly about other things.

Then last night was my last hypnotherapy session. Again, a lovely girl and she does good work. It was with her help that I managed to work through my wife coming to collect her things. I felt totally de-stressed by bedtime and I hoped that I could get some sleep - Nope! Only 3 hours, then the panic starts building again as soon as I wake up.

CWarriorThere has been no offer or agreement that she will pay utilities, this is what the issue is and why we have needed to petition the court, plus she refuses to pass on the logon information for the accounts so that I can managed them and is insistent that I take them out in my name and isn't informing me of cancellations to things such as my car insurance.

She refuses to communicate and therefore a lawyers letter is the only method and that is proving unfruitful, but apparently it's an audit trail of sorts to prove her conduct later. The thing is that she has chosen to walk away and discarded her contractual responsibilities for rent and utility payments and has chosen to cancel other payments without word or communication, despite my lawyer requesting that she do so. Originally she stated that she would pay until the end of August and that she would not abandon me - she hasn't and she has.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Whatever the court deems fair, they usually enforce. If you're expecting her to be more generous than the court deems fair, I'd drop that line of thinking, unless she's strongly indicated such intentions.
I am not expecting anything really and I always have come from a position of what's fair in any of my dealings. Unfortunately the stbxw has other ideas and doesn't want to be fair - theft never is. My lawyer commented that she is being very underhand, after she cancelled my car insurance payment without communicating this and needs to be careful with the lies she is telling in lawyer correspondence, as if she lies on a Statement of Truth (which comes with financial disclosure), concerning what has been done with the dental claim money she took without my knowledge and how she has been manipulating money across bank accounts, then it wouldn't look very good on her, being a legal professional the courts would come down hard as they are supposed to be respected clerks of the court. So that's on her and her conduct in all of this is highly-questionable according to my lawyer. If she loses her ability to practice as a lawyer and I lose the spousal maintenance along with that, I will be OK with that as Karma would have dealt it's hand.

I also like your take on a 'math problem'. Yes, that is exactly what it is and it then takes the emotional sting out, however it's also a spiritual problem as the more I've thought about this issue today and whether to hold maintenance payments as the highest priority, I realised that my priority should be me and my welfare and I came to this conclusion at the same time on the Osteopath's treatment couch, that my brain and body just needed to stop - I need a different environment, my own space away from the memories.

This was proven today when I nipped down the coffee shop on the way to the supermarket. The girl in there (coffee shop) is lovely and knows that we split up, but the stbxw goes in there to get a take out some mornings and she mentioned to the girl that she had been on holiday for a couple of weeks - that was the week that she left me. She offered the information and I wasn't even talking about anything in particular and nothing to do with the relationship. "I don't know how she could do that!", she said and said that she thought it was disgusting.

So, I have won myself about a week to see what we get back from the court, but that was why I was so stressed yesterday. At least now I can change focus a bit tomorrow and start sorting out stuff to take, throw, sell and leave for her.

All of your comments have been really very helpful and I am once again blown away by your support. I'm sorry if I came across a bit desperate - I did feel that and I felt that options were nil and didn't know how it was 'sounding'. But after Osteopath treatment and literally stopping for an hour or so, seemed to make all the difference.

I've had issues with the forums all day, but I shall respond to the other posts as if I do it in this one, then it will be huge!

Thank you all, once again :-)
Originally Posted by smilie
It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me
I am experiencing issues as well, so I believe it was a server issue.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
None of this is going to be easy, or quick. You have to accept the reality of the situation before you and accept that while it's a hard road to travel you will reach the other side. You aren't alone. And this isn't the worst thing that has or will happen to you. This is one of many obstacles you've already traversed. Just slow down. You got this.
I can't quote your entire post, but please know that I am grateful for every word.

I don't know why I panic so much, it's just a reaction and one that I can't seem to prevent happening, but I can truly say that this has been the absolute worst time of my life, from somebody that I would have never thought would have done anything like this at all and I don't have a reference point for it in order to navigate through it. You mention that it won't be the worst and I don't even want to think about what that is going to look like.

You are right though, making the right decision for me that gets me a roof over my head and a different environment (in my book anyway) will be the start of healing. I'm doing this, but the issue I had was that my lawyer told me that the decision I made (which was the only one that I had available) would scamper part of my claim and that she advised to wait a few days, when everything was in motion and I needed to give notice on this place by the end of this week, otherwise I would have to pay more rent. But I've decided that that can be taken out of the deposit money at the end of tenancy and spoken to the agent at the other end - everything is fine.

I am sure that my lawyer has my best interests at heart, but I wondered if she knew the implications of her asking me to wait a few more days for the courts - that was a nightmare to think my way around that one. I hate this Vestibular condition as it really does stop me thinking when I need to think, leading to frustration also. It also makes me shake when I get stressed too. But after I had a bath this morning I solidified a plan and it worked out just fine and I started t calm down a bit more.

I will take you at your word that this is temporary - I know it is - but there just isn't a break between having to handle the sh!t before the next load comes in, that's all. It seems like there is stuff to be dealt with the entire time and I just need to have a break, just for a short while, a break in the thoughts that are creating this, it's a real effort.

Thank you again. Hopefully the worst of this is happening now and after that it will start getting better once I know the courts perspective - that will be the road paved out, I'm sure.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
This latest update is disturbing to me. I sincerely hope that you can find therapy somehow someway. This last post seems desperate and hopeless.
That's how I felt, still feel. This is such an awful situation and I'm doing my best to sort as much as I can then it becomes overwhelming. I'm sorry if I came across really bad. I did reach out to a crisis line to chat through a few things and the girl was really helpful - although it makes me feel pathetic. Through all of this the biggest thing that gives me the most pain is that somebody who I have truly loved for all these years, has been having a long-term affair (it would seem) and has co-ordinated a strategy to leave me penniless and then continues to try to crush me into the ground and treat me as if she absolutely despises me, all without reason. That hurts deep and that's what I can't get my head round and I never will and that's what messes me up a lot. It truly is unbelievable and it's like I'm in some sort of drama series where each day is a new episode.

Originally Posted by Thornton
There have been a few times in my life that I could not see a way out. I literally had no options and my life felt like it was crumbling around me. I've been in very, very dark and scary places in my life before. And every single time, somehow, some way, a path revealed itself, often at the very last moment.
This is how I feel, like all my options are disappearing. I wake up every morning so anxious I don't know what to do with myself. I want to push forward and try, but this panic feeling just creeps up and overwhelms. I have been trying to create a different road to take me out of this situation, but it's like the road-workers come along at the last moment and close the road.

Originally Posted by Thornton
Like Steve suggests, make calls, ask for help, and don't give up. I promise things will get better if you can just ride out this storm.
I'm asking for help but it goes nowhere. I reach out to the few people I know and they don't respond and I fear that pushes them away. The girl who does CBT is referring me to relationship counselling, but that will probably be a few weeks and over the phone. I need to meet people really and talk face to face, but that's not allowed now.

Originally Posted by Thornton
I'm not sure if you are religious, but I often sought comfort in the church. Speaking to a preacher is free, and they can often point you in a direction to get help.

You have the strength to get through this, I promise you.
I'm not religious. sometimes I wish I was though to try to help make sense that this is all happening for some reason or other. I really hope I have the strength somewhere to pull through, as I think I'm doing fine, then all of a sudden I'm not anymore.

But I'll keep going best I can. Got to start sorting stuff out today see what I need to take with me for when I move. I'm sure I'll get there.
Originally Posted by smilie
a strategy to leave me penniless and then continues to try to crush me into the ground and treat me as if she absolutely despises me,
Despising you implies attachment. I suspect detachment, that she wants what's best for herself and her family.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by smilie
a strategy to leave me penniless and then continues to try to crush me into the ground and treat me as if she absolutely despises me,
Despising you implies attachment. I suspect detachment, that she wants what's best for herself and her family.
Maybe. It's still been a long planned out strategy though, certainly not a last minute thing. Seeing as money was drawn out of account last year, and been dribbling out since May 2109 and everything co-ordinated one after the other until complete, right down to acting as if everything was fine up until the day before she left - and that was only because I caught her hiding a small bag and postal address being changed with each company/creditors she deals with (rather than a redirect put in place). If I hadn't have seen that she had packed a bag, then she would have "gone out for coffee" with her sister who she arranged to come over, and never have come back and she would have sent me a text message then.

I can't remember if I said, but I found out that she went on holiday straight afterwards. Hurts like hell. And today she is trying to say that she had grounds for divorce, which she didn't and I suspect that she is trying to make out that I was nasty to her, which I would never be as I though the world of her. So that would be the 'rewriting history' part then I suppose?

So am I safe to assume that all her family and people she knows (even though they've known me for years also), think I'm some kind of wicked abusive husband? If this is the case then it would upset me no end, but I bet that is exactly the angle she has taken, as she knows that my last girlfriend painted me like this to her family and knew how much it upset me.

I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I know my ex went around bashing me and making me out to be some emotionally abusive a-hole to anyone who would listen when she left. She did it to portray herself as the victim and get people to approve of her decision, and cheer her on.

I did just the opposite with our friends, when I was asked about her. I would just say it didn't work out and that I hope she finds what she's looking for.

What's crazy is it's been two years since we split and had any contact with each other, and my mom has told me my ex has called her and expressed regret about leaving me. Go figure...

There's nothing you can do about it so let it go. I think most rational people will be able to see what she's doing considering she is the repeat offender cheater between the two of you.
Originally Posted by smilie
I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I suspect you are going to get smacked around about this comment my friend.
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by SteveLW
This latest update is disturbing to me. I sincerely hope that you can find therapy somehow someway. This last post seems desperate and hopeless.
That's how I felt, still feel. This is such an awful situation and I'm doing my best to sort as much as I can then it becomes overwhelming. I'm sorry if I came across really bad. I did reach out to a crisis line to chat through a few things and the girl was really helpful - although it makes me feel pathetic. Through all of this the biggest thing that gives me the most pain is that somebody who I have truly loved for all these years, has been having a long-term affair (it would seem) and has co-ordinated a strategy to leave me penniless and then continues to try to crush me into the ground and treat me as if she absolutely despises me, all without reason. That hurts deep and that's what I can't get my head round and I never will and that's what messes me up a lot. It truly is unbelievable and it's like I'm in some sort of drama series where each day is a new episode.

smilie, I've told you this before, but this all has a lot less to do with you than you think it does. She isn't out to ruin you, she is just trying to be happy. Is she going about it all wrong? Absolutely. But no one can tell her that, she has to find it out on her own.

You need to try to separate yourself from her actions. That is what detachment is. Is it difficult to do? You betcha! But it is the only path forward. The alternative is to sit and stew on everything like you are currently doing.
Originally Posted by smilie
Through all of this the biggest thing that gives me the most pain is that somebody who I have truly loved for all these years, has been having a long-term affair (it would seem) and has co-ordinated a strategy to leave me penniless and then continues to try to crush me into the ground and treat me as if she absolutely despises me, all without reason.

"I've been planning on divorcing you for years"-MyExWife

I will never know how much $$$ she pulled from our "Joint" money before BD. I just know I caught her withdrawing a large amount thanks to my financial adviser "mentioning" the check. He knew what was going on.


Listen, we all relate to your experience. There are so many things to process. Prioritize them. There are many reasons for the way she is treating you right now, but knowing them and understanding them is not important at this stage.

I see you soo focused on her side of the fence. Focus on your side and what you can control. Take a hard look at your behaviors and traits and decide which ones you like and which ones you don't. Drop the ones you don't like. Then take a good look at traits and behaviors in other men that you like that you don't have. Start adding them to you.

You just found out Santa isn't real, and that is OK. Morn the loss of the relationship and find out how to be happy alone. At the same time, fight for what is legally yours. Make your claims with your Lawyer and let them do what you are paying them for.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by smilie
I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I suspect you are going to get smacked around about this comment my friend.
Not again! I'm always saying the wrong thing, but it's just my experience. Don't want to offend! frown
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I've told you this before, but this all has a lot less to do with you than you think it does. She isn't out to ruin you, she is just trying to be happy. Is she going about it all wrong? Absolutely. But no one can tell her that, she has to find it out on her own.
I know you have and I trust you are right. Others too have said that it's not personal, but it sure as hell feels like it is just that and it's difficult to see otherwise. As you say, she has gone about it all wrong. If she wanted out all she had to do was say and a conversation could have been held, rather than lie, cheat and steal and make it all so complicated. I think it was wayfarer that said that it'll probably get worse (or CWarrior). Isn't it strange that some people think that in order for them to be happy, they have to try and ruin somebody's else's life, rather than find out why they don't feel happy inside? That's how it seems to me.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
You need to try to separate yourself from her actions. That is what detachment is. Is it difficult to do? You betcha! But it is the only path forward. The alternative is to sit and stew on everything like you are currently doing.
I'm trying not to stew, honestly. In actual fact this time of day is better for me as I feel fairly relaxed. It's the first 75% of the day that's tough and I don't know why. I don't enjoy doing anything anymore. Spent some time in the garden today tidying up I think that done some good.

So detachment. How? I wish there was a book for this that I could read - "Detachment in 21 Days". I do not know how to do this. Even somebody telling me that she went on holiday immediately after leaving, affects me. I've even read the detachment thread and I still can't work it out. Perhaps I am destined for stupidity and that's why I didn't know she was having an affair or that I let it happen more than once.

My neighbour brought loads of boxes home for me today (he's the assistant manager of a small supermarket), so I can start separating stuff out now - her stuff, my stuff, stuff to sell for moving to bin stuff. Perhaps that will help detach a bit. I'm going down the coffee shop every morning to be around people and doing stuff like sorting things through for moving, writing emails, making phone calls or reading. I have sussed out they have internet too, just in case I get cut off here soon, so at least I can still function to some degree, if not at a very slow speed!

I just wish there was more going on around this sleepy country town, as it would probably make detaching slightly easier.

If there is a hidden secret, I would appreciate a share smile
Just read the detachment thread again and I've read something different this time. I also came across a post by "Maybe" towards the end and it made me think back when I was an IT Consultant/Contractor. I liked it as I didn't need to get involved in company politics or petty squabbles between employees. I went in and done the job I was paid for doing a certain task. I kept one step back from the office politics - I didn't let things affect me in any level, didn't have an opinion on it, didn't get involved - I actually liked it like that.

So that to me is similar to, or the same as, detachment and is a good way for me to start looking at it from that perspective.
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by smilie
I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I suspect you are going to get smacked around about this comment my friend.
Not again! I'm always saying the wrong thing, but it's just my experience. Don't want to offend! frown
Smilies my point is it is not a gender thing its a WW thing. They have to justify their actions to ease the burden of guilt.

How does "Smilies was a great and almost perfect husband who loved me dearly. Having said that, I am going to shack up with OM"?
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by smilie
I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I suspect you are going to get smacked around about this comment my friend.
Not again! I'm always saying the wrong thing, but it's just my experience. Don't want to offend! frown
Smilies my point is it is not a gender thing its a WW thing. They have to justify their actions to ease the burden of guilt.

How does "Smilies was a great and almost perfect husband who loved me dearly. Having said that, I am going to shack up with OM"?
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by smilie
I really don't know why some women always seem to go down this route and try to dirty somebody's credibility - what is their angle? Surely it can't be just because they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions? It doesn't makes sense, see as she was the one having affairs for years and moved in with somebody twice!
I suspect you are going to get smacked around about this comment my friend.
Not again! I'm always saying the wrong thing, but it's just my experience. Don't want to offend! frown
Smilies my point is it is not a gender thing its a WW thing. They have to justify their actions to ease the burden of guilt.

How does "Smilies was a great and almost perfect husband who loved me dearly. Having said that, I am going to shack up with OM"?
Hi Smilie,

I�ll attempt to reply a third time, but won�t quote�blame the currently glitchy forums. I still hear you interpreting her decisions as more �about you� than they probably are. Her decision to leave may have been �about you�, but after making that decision so long ago, her antics now are probably more about maximizing what she and her family gets and less about ruining you.
Originally Posted by smilie
Isn't it strange that some people think that in order for them to be happy, they have to try and ruin somebody's else's life, (step away from a relationship that isn�t working for them) rather than find out why they don't feel happy inside?

The external and internal interplay. While we may control how we react to a situation, it�s easier to be happy when you like your boss than when you can�t stand them. Time will tell whether removing you from her life increases or decreases her happiness, right?
Originally Posted by LH19
Smilies my point is it is not a gender thing its a WW thing. They have to justify their actions to ease the burden of guilt.

How does "Smilies was a great and almost perfect husband who loved me dearly. Having said that, I am going to shack up with OM"?
I see that patterning and I suppose that's why it seems personal even though it's just that pattern that is run. They obviously know that they are lying to themselves. They rewrite history, but surely that don't actually believe it's real? This would make them delusional to believe the lies they tell and a pathological liar.

I was far from an almost perfect husband! Lol! But I get the point that they would have to make the LBS out to be some kind of awful person. I wonder if they are also after sympathy from others and the OM/OW for extra attention and I would hazard a guess that what they tell OM/OW, will give them an opinion of the LBS and lead them to suggest things and act in ways that they wouldn't have if they were told the truth. This is manipulation.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I'll attempt to reply a third time, but won't blame the currently glitchy forums. I still hear you interpreting her decisions as more 'about you' than they probably are....
....her antics now are probably more about maximizing what she and her family gets and less about ruining you
I suspect they are upgrading the forum software?

Yes I probably am and it's hard not to. Her family? I'm her family, or was. It's horrible looking at it that way. The thing is there's nothing to 'get' and with the latest lawyer bill, there isn't anything left to get either.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Time will tell whether removing you from her life increases or decreases her happiness, right?
Yes, but it will be too late. I wonder how many people do this kind of thing firing on emotion and then realise that they have made a huge mistake?

Obviously she has upgraded to a more wealthier individual, but surely it's about connection and love, I thought we had that I really did. Perhaps I'm the one that's delusional? smile
[/quote]
Obviously she has upgraded to a more wealthier individual, but surely it's about connection and love, I thought we had that I really did. Perhaps I'm the one that's delusional? smile[/quote]

I think a lot of the time we project our own feelings onto our partner and assume they feel the same way, I know I did.

I was content with my relationship and would have never left my ex, the relationship worked for me. So I assumed she felt the same way.

Hindsight is 20/20 and looking back, I don't think I was as happy as I thought I was. And my ex certainly wasn't happy either.
Originally Posted by smilie
The thing is there's nothing to 'get'
You already mentioned maintenance payments, money she �stole�, a pension, dental, rent, utilities, etc.
Originally Posted by smilie
This would make them delusional to believe the lies they tell and a pathological liar.
Hi smilie, if you need to, draw her with a pointy mustache, tying you down to a train track. Rewriting history is usually about choosing what moments merit inclusion and focus. It can include embellishment, but most have done enough wrong over the course of an LTR, such is not strictly necessary. LBS do nearly as much history rewriting as WAS. We see it all the time. Someone wants to save the R, they tell us certain stories about their ex, they want to move on, they tell us darker stories. If a reconciliation attempt is near, suddenly those darker stories are downplayed. Yes, viewing your ex as wonderful or as the worst of villains are usually both self-delusions. No, I wouldn't call you a pathological liar. You're human. (:

Try to separate out in your mind what she says in court--a legal business matter--from what she says elsewhere. She wrote you a letter about the breakup. A very kind one, if I recall correctly.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by smilie
This would make them delusional to believe the lies they tell and a pathological liar.
Yes, viewing your ex as wonderful or as the worst of villains are usually both self-delusions. No, I wouldn't call you a pathological liar. You're human. (:

Try to separate out in your mind what she says in court--a legal business matter--from what she says elsewhere. She wrote you a letter about the breakup. A very kind one, if I recall correctly.
I was querying as to the WAS being pathological liars if they believe what they are saying - not me!

She didn't write me a letter, just a text message when she dumped me, saying that she won't abandon me and will pay the rent and bills til end of august. She has gone back on everything she said - all lies of course - and hasn't kept to anything. So even if it sounded nice, she hasn't kept to anything she said.

I don't view her as a villain, or wonderful at this stage, I just want to get out of this worsening situation - My lawyer has just billed me �2850 for one month for doing almost nothing. This is the money I need to move and rent a new house - divorce shouldn't be this expensive, but she has been going on about maintenance payments and this has taken the money I think.

Every day this situation gets a little bit worse. Every time I put my trust in somebody my life gets worse and I have less money. It's like I'm getting kicked in the gut over and over again and there's nothing I can do. How much more?
Wow, if I have my exchange rates right, that�s more than I paid my attorney for my whole divorce. She is a $700/hr laser scalpel. �What�s my expected outcome? What do you propose? How much would that cost me? What if I do nothing?� It�s true I or a paralegal do any legwork because her time�s more valuable. I was surprised your attorney was sending emails about utilities. If mine spent 15min on the topic, even if I won, I�d lose financially. As with mechanics and doctors, be discerning in what work you approve. PS - This is another area where you can take ownership or let things �just happen� to you.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Wow, if I have my exchange rates right, that�s more than I paid my attorney for my whole divorce. She is a $700/hr laser scalpel. �What�s my expected outcome? What do you propose? How much would that cost me? What if I do nothing?� It�s true I or a paralegal do any legwork because her time�s more valuable. I was surprised your attorney was sending emails about utilities. If mine spent 15min on the topic, even if I won, I�d lose financially. As with mechanics and doctors, be discerning in what work you approve. PS - This is another area where you can take ownership or let things �just happen� to you.
She charges 196/hr (272.50USD) but bills loads of time for emails. So she sends me and email and I reply and she charges for both. They don't use paralegals or secretaries, but I may need to find another lawyer as I can't afford this going forward. She had me believe that I had a good claim for maintenance so we will see what the court says, but I can't afford this and she knows it. She was supposed to let me know when the costs exceeded 1,600 but she failed to do so.

I have emailed her saying that she was supposed to inform me and to give me an idea of costs going forward for the rest of the divorce. I shall make some more enquiries on Monday with other firms. They were basically telling me the entire divorce would be around 1,500gbp but I think my lawyer got carried away with the maintenance stuff and the financial stuff after we realised that the stbxw had taken money from all the accounts.

Really, I wish that I was emotionally stronger. All this stuff battering me one after the other without any let up is totally awful and is devastating my financial position and emotional health - I haven't stopped shaking all day due to the stress and I haven't slept either.

I decided to start sorting some of the stuff out that the stbxw and I have been carrying around with us for years. Stuff that we have collected on our travels and things that we use from time to time but have boxed up due to renting houses that have no space to put stuff.

I'm chucking bits and bobs we haven't used for years, my stuff that I don't really want and I'm separating her stuff and keeping or selling the rest. I shall leave a whole load of stuff here for her to decide if she wants. I'm only selling my stuff. It's horrible as it's like saying goodbye to all those times with each and every item bringing back a memory - it's killing me...

This is the absolutely worst time in my life and I feel that I'm barley hanging in there, but I am. I keep getting these thoughts and images pop into my head that my wife comes back home. I know she isn't going to and it's heartbreaking and the first time I've cried over her for weeks ... Today, I've really missed her - the woman she used to be.
What a ride this life is turning out to be ..... in way of an update after receiving my lawyer huge bill on Friday...

Spoke to my lawyer this morning about fees, work, costs going forward, etc. She say that there was a lot of work to go in to preparing the court papers, which wouldn't have needed to be done if my stbxw would have agreed to pay maintenance between us. She didn't and therefore the court had to be petitioned and this incurred costs. The consists for this part of the process can be up to �5,000 ($6,900) and a claim has also been put in to recover the costs from the stbx as these would have never have been incurred if she had been prepared to come to an agreement, which is also likely to be accepted due to her conduct.

She told me that a divorce can cost between �5,000 - �25,0000 ($6,900 - $35,000), depending on how difficult the other party wants to be - at the moment, very it would appear. But seeing as I filed for adultery, initial costs have to be paid by me. Also I am led to believe that the person who files is seen as more favourable by the court? Other companies have told me this also.

The court still hasn't listed my case to be heard and they have been chased this morning. My lawyer has told me how to reduce costs by saving all the information I find out and send it all in one email, rather than as and when I have information.

She thinks that I should be successful in court with my claim, but she cannot guarantee it (of course) and that I should be good going forward for longer term claim also. She also recommended looking for places to live either in the local area (can't do this as I don't want to be around stbxw), or an area with similar house prices to here, otherwise it could affect my claim with a property rented in a cheaper area, which was my plan, if I was to change area later then the claim wouldn't be adjusted for a higher rent - so that's my focus, while keeping the house I found on the go just in case - referencing checks next.

She didn't charge me for the phone call, but I've still got to pay the bill, but at least I know that it should be able to be recovered. We discussed a couple of areas that will keep costs lower.

I am hoping that if I get maintenance agreed, then later down the line I can always put forward an offer for the stbxw not to have claim on anything (my pensions) and I'll stop claiming maintenance, depending on how things go. Always handy to have that leverage if I need to. So now it's about building evidence for the courts for the next stage. I certainly didn't expect this to get this bad though and thought that the stbxw would have been agreeable ... she seems to have changed, significantly.

I mentioned that I was anxious having received her invoice after close of business on a Friday and that I was unable to speak with her and it didn't help my situation. She was understanding and said that she would look into the procedures, as it's not a good thing to do. She also said that they were one of the cheaper law firms in the area due to the fact that they don't charge for everything. I saw that also, when one of the other firms recommended taking out a loan or re-mortgaging the house to pay for the cost of divorce.

So we'll see what happens next. I'm also looking to see if I can find any groups a bit further from here and work a bit more on my recently neglected GAL.
Sorry man. As you said, when one spouse is difficult to work with, then the legal costs mount quickly. Just hang in there, there is light at the end of the tunnel. And I think you will look back and be glad you got out of this when you did. Everything happens for a reason. Look for the silver-linings and don't dwell on the negative. GAL like a madman. Make it your mission to be as busy as you possibly can every waking hour!
smilie,

Originally Posted by smilie
She charges 196/hr (272.50USD) but bills loads of time for emails.
Originally Posted by smilie
She told me that a divorce can cost between �5,000 - �25,0000 ($6,900 - $35,000), depending on how difficult the other party wants to be - at the moment, very it would appear.
I live in a different country, this rate doesn't sound outlandish. While my lawyer was one of the top in my area and billed at $300/hr, I don't live in a major city either where I'm sure the rates are much higher. Did you sign a retainer agreement? Mine specified exactly the rates/minimum cost per communication (meeting in office vs. meeting on phone vs. $75 for an email...etc.). I ended up paying ~$8k for the entire process, so not cheap but not $35k either.

Reach out to another attorney or two for a free consultation and ask about their rates / costs? Maybe there's a better option for you. Maybe there's an attorney willing to defer the payments until the judgement is finalized, knowing you'll likely receive maintenance / reimbursements for monies removed from accounts / lawyers fees...etc.

Another thing to keep in mind is in some jurisdictions the "more monied" spouse is responsible for paying part of the legal bills of the divorce for the "lessor money" spouse. Unfortunately for me, despite my ExW having the affair, filing for D, moving OM2 in with my kids...I had to contribute $3k to help pay for her to D me! What a world, right? However, IF that's the case where you are it would benefit you and may help your legal bills and an attorney's willingness to engage.

Originally Posted by smilie
This is the absolutely worst time in my life and I feel that I'm barley hanging in there, but I am. I keep getting these thoughts and images pop into my head that my wife comes back home. I know she isn't going to and it's heartbreaking and the first time I've cried over her for weeks ... Today, I've really missed her - the woman she used to be.
Sorry smilie. It is an awful experience - there's not way around it. Hang in there. You'll get through it eventually. You'll wake up one day and instead of each day or week feeling like a month you'll wonder "how has it been a year already?" .
Originally Posted by smilie
She thinks that I should be successful in court with my claim, but she cannot guarantee it (of course)
I would bet that almost every lawyer tells their client this.

The lawyers keep the emotions out of the negotiations, but they can be a financial drain on the clients if you let them argue (negotiate) every little thing. Determine what is important to claim for your side and attempt to minimize the $$ spent on things that don't matter.

Get educated on the divorce law in your area. Get a firm grip on what a judge would order. In the US, I see the lawyers attempting to have the parties settle after significant billable hours have happened but before the final court date.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I think you will look back and be glad you got out of this when you did. Everything happens for a reason. Look for the silver-linings and don't dwell on the negative. GAL like a madman. Make it your mission to be as busy as you possibly can every waking hour!
It's a shame that I didn't push more 10 years ago when we had counselling after she did this before. She insisted that she didn't have an affair, as she knew that I wouldn't take her back if she had - especially seeing as it was inside of a year of being married, although it probably was even before we were as you don't just move in with somebody at the drop of a hat. She was living somewhere either on her own and seeing someone else, or had moved in with someone else for best part of 9 months.

If I had 'seen' all that then, then I would have probably got out then ... or would I? I loved her.

Just a shame I'm so old now (55). It seems too late to start over again, especially after this is going to take ages to get over. I can't work a traditional job because of my condition and have no income. But, I'll keep looking for those silver linings.

It's difficult to GAL when I have no money and no social network either, but I need to focus and work out what I can do to GAL effectively with these limitations. I just feel isolated all the time and this is such a tiny town with nothing going on, so all GAL activities are alone. I've scoured 'meetup' and absolutely every 'in person' event on there is at least a 40 minute drive and then they're walking groups or yoga, absolutely nothing local to me at all. Which is annoying. Will have to think of more GAL activities.
Originally Posted by BL42
Reach out to another attorney or two for a free consultation and ask about their rates / costs? Maybe there's a better option for you. Maybe there's an attorney willing to defer the payments until the judgement is finalized, knowing you'll likely receive maintenance / reimbursements for monies removed from accounts / lawyers fees...etc.
I did do this rights at the beginning as I didn't have money to put down to employ a lawyer. Absolutely nobody would defer payment, as there are no guarantees on claiming monies back. One company wouldn't even talk with me without me paying them money, as the abnoxious guy I spoke with kept telling me I was asking to advice, when all I was doing was explaining my situation to see if their company could deal with that. Another company gave me the same quote �5,000-�25,000 suggesting that I take out a load to cover the costs.

Originally Posted by BL42
Another thing to keep in mind is in some jurisdictions the "more monied" spouse is responsible for paying part of the legal bills of the divorce for the "lessor money" spouse. Unfortunately for me, despite my ExW having the affair, filing for D, moving OM2 in with my kids...I had to contribute $3k to help pay for her to D me! What a world, right? However, IF that's the case where you are it would benefit you and may help your legal bills and an attorney's willingness to engage.
This is where my lawyer is good. She has also put in a claim for costs. This triggered a response from my stbxw's lawyer saying that they are surprised but would agreed to pay 50% of the costs. My lawyer turned around and basically said - no thank you, the only reason it has gone to court is because your client (my stbxw) refused to come to a resolution outside of court, therefore my claim for costs remains.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sorry smilie. It is an awful experience - there's not way around it. Hang in there. You'll get through it eventually. You'll wake up one day and instead of each day or week feeling like a month you'll wonder "how has it been a year already?" .
Let's hope eh? I really want to get started on my business ideas, but I'm in the wrong head space at the moment. I was hoping to move by the middle of August and then start it then, but my lawyer has told me to hold off to see what the courts decide about maintenance.

I wouldn't have thought this would actually get tougher as time went on - only week 11 though (11 weeks today!), so I guess it's early days still.
Smilie, please go read:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2823726#Post2823726
Originally Posted by smilie
Just a shame I'm so old now (55). It seems too late to start over again, especially after this is going to take ages to get over.
You are not old. You are 1 year older than me. As far as a timeline for getting over the relationship, It is going to take exactly how long you believe it will. Change your beliefs. You can choose to get over it sooner, or you can choose to let it drag out as long as you want. Your choice. Hopefully we have a good 30-40 more years left. Each of us could die today. Make today count. Don't dwell on the regrets of the past or the fears of the future. Create and find your happiness everyday.
Originally Posted by BL42
Reach out to another attorney or two for a free consultation and ask about their rates / costs? Maybe there's a better option for you. Maybe there's an attorney willing to defer the payments until the judgement is finalized, knowing you'll likely receive maintenance / reimbursements for monies removed from accounts / lawyers fees...etc.
I did do this right at the beginning as I didn't have money to put down to employ a lawyer. Absolutely nobody would defer payment, as there are no guarantees on claiming monies back. One company wouldn't even talk with me without me paying them money, as the abnoxious guy I spoke with kept telling me I was asking for advice, when all I was doing was explaining my situation to see if their company could deal with that. Another company gave me the same quote �5,000-�25,000 suggesting that I take out a loan to cover the costs.

Originally Posted by BL42
Another thing to keep in mind is in some jurisdictions the "more monied" spouse is responsible for paying part of the legal bills of the divorce for the "lessor money" spouse. Unfortunately for me, despite my ExW having the affair, filing for D, moving OM2 in with my kids...I had to contribute $3k to help pay for her to D me! What a world, right? However, IF that's the case where you are it would benefit you and may help your legal bills and an attorney's willingness to engage.
This is where my lawyer is good. She has also put in a claim for costs. This triggered a response from my stbxw's lawyer saying that they are surprised but would agreed to pay 50% of the costs. My lawyer turned around and basically said - no thank you, the only reason it has gone to court is because your client (my stbxw) refused to come to a resolution outside of court, therefore my claim for costs remains.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sorry smilie. It is an awful experience - there's not way around it. Hang in there. You'll get through it eventually. You'll wake up one day and instead of each day or week feeling like a month you'll wonder "how has it been a year already?" .
Let's hope eh? I really want to get started on my business ideas, but I'm in the wrong head space at the moment. I was hoping to move by the middle of August and then start it then, but my lawyer has told me to hold off to see what the courts decide about maintenance. So probably be a winter project.

I wouldn't have thought this would actually get tougher as time went on - only week 11 though (11 weeks today!), so I guess it's early days still.

Read that and will read it a few times. It does feel like you will die, or more importantly that your life will go downhill and you'll be left on the streets with nothing - well, that's the story I'm telling myself at the moment. Be careful what you wish for, eh?

My brain finds it hard to do generalisations, such as "do the work", "let go" and "look after you". The same answer to all three is "How?". How do I do what work? How do I finally let go after just 10 short weeks? ... and ... How DO I let go?

As far as "the work" is concerned, I would imagine that made up of GALing, ICing, Reading & learning and in my case, getting as well as I can by sorting out this VM condition I have. For me it all rests on creating an income and that must be my focus when I get myself sorted.

Letting go is the hard bit, if that means just accepting that it is what it is, the relationship is over and I need to get on with my life on my own and build it up once again for the 5th time in my life and hopefully the last. How does one stop thinking about the other person they have shared the last 19 years with? I don't want to think about her all the time, it just happens. I don't like what I see in her now though and that has to help some way I would hope. I do feel worn out at the moment - stress, panic, emotional pain, lack of sleep and not sure if I have the strength to do that, but then again I'm still standing so I must have something somewhere that I didn't realise I had.

Looking after me? Being kind to myself? Making sure I'm ok? I don't suppose I've done that for a long time and will need to learn again.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change
As far as a timeline for getting over the relationship, It is going to take exactly how long you believe it will. Change your beliefs. You can choose to get over it sooner, or you can choose to let it drag out as long as you want. Your choice.
You are exactly right, it is a choice. It's all just thought and the limitations you are willing to accept giving yourself. I know this, so why can't I seem to do anything about it? I shall ponder that....

One thing is for sure though, the people here are amazing. You are all my support network at the moment and I feel so grateful to each and every one of you. I don't think any of you will ever know how much it means just for you to be there, to offer support - or a stern tongue - and all just for the love of your fellow man (in my case). I shall be eternally grateful and will certainly pay it forward when I have the opportunity to do so.
Originally Posted by smilie
Read that and will read it a few times. It does feel like you will die, or more importantly that your life will go downhill and you'll be left on the streets with nothing - well, that's the story I'm telling myself at the moment. Be careful what you wish for, eh?

My brain finds it hard to do generalisations, such as "do the work", "let go" and "look after you". The same answer to all three is "How?". How do I do what work? How do I finally let go after just 10 short weeks? ... and ... How DO I let go?

As far as "the work" is concerned, I would imagine that made up of GALing, ICing, Reading & learning and in my case, getting as well as I can by sorting out this VM condition I have. For me it all rests on creating an income and that must be my focus when I get myself sorted.

Letting go is the hard bit, if that means just accepting that it is what it is, the relationship is over and I need to get on with my life on my own and build it up once again for the 5th time in my life and hopefully the last. How does one stop thinking about the other person they have shared the last 19 years with? I don't want to think about her all the time, it just happens. I don't like what I see in her now though and that has to help some way I would hope. I do feel worn out at the moment - stress, panic, emotional pain, lack of sleep and not sure if I have the strength to do that, but then again I'm still standing so I must have something somewhere that I didn't realise I had.

Looking after me? Being kind to myself? Making sure I'm ok? I don't suppose I've done that for a long time and will need to learn again.

I disagree with your assessment that you need to have money to GAL, etc. Even ICing, there are some free resources out there if a person is so motivated to find them. Especially someone that is no or low income. But I did both. I did paid GAL, free GAL, paid IC and improvements, and free improvements. I truly believe that where there is a will, there is a way. We had a LBS here a while back that made all sorts of excuses as to why he couldn't GAL, or IC, or 180/self-improve. The truth was he liked to sit and stew in his own juices and feel sorry for himself. His recovery was long and stunted as a result. He finally jumped into a new R, and I am guessing he has a future BD coming his way because he didn't do the work.

Getting over someone is not easy. The only thing I have seen that helps is time. The more time that goes by the more clarity you will get. LBSs have a way of romanticizing how perfect their MR pre-BD was, and that they have no idea how they'll move on without all of that wedded bliss with that person. The truth is most of us were pretty miserable in our MR as well, but we forget that when the flight or flight instinct kicks in. Give yourself time. This is a marathon, not sprint. Be patient with yourself.

But yes, go learn those skills: looking after yourself, being kind to yourself, and making sure you are ok. That is DETACHMENT!

Originally Posted by smilie
One thing is for sure though, the people here are amazing. You are all my support network at the moment and I feel so grateful to each and every one of you. I don't think any of you will ever know how much it means just for you to be there, to offer support - or a stern tongue - and all just for the love of your fellow man (in my case). I shall be eternally grateful and will certainly pay it forward when I have the opportunity to do so.

Agree. That is why I spend so much time here. My sitch turned around (not in a D vs. R way, but in an attitude and approach) when I found this forum. I am forever indebted to the posters here!
Originally Posted by smilie
My brain finds it hard to do generalizations, such as "do the work", "let go" and "look after you". The same answer to all three is "How?". How do I do what work? How do I finally let go after just 10 short weeks? ... and ... How DO I let go?


The generalization is the foundation.

So "Do the work" is the foundation for personal growth/change. Maybe you can identify 5 areas in your life that you would like to improve. Lets use "Attraction" as one area that we can improve. Still general, but more specific. Then we need to identify what women in general find attractive about men. We read that women are attracted to confident men. Others advise that we should hit the gym. Others say they like a man that uses humor. Identify the areas here that you want to work on.
At some point, you have to change your behavior. Maybe you wake up an hour earlier than normal and lift weights. Maybe you make different choices for breakfast. Maybe you go shopping for some new stylings clothing.

"Let go"-Your thoughts are controlling you. Learn to control your thoughts. The stop sign technique is good. Learning to stay in the present is helpful. Set goals, focus your actions on the goals. Rewiring your brain takes time. Start collecting mantras such as "I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me" and "I do not share my woman with other men".

"Look after you" - When you wake up, do not think, just be. Lay in bed and focus on breathing in and out deeply. Focus on how it feels. It is a good feeling. Get in the shower. Again no thinking, just feel how good the warm water feels. Stay in the moment. I have several different smelling shampoos. I pick on and enjoy the smell. Do things like this throughout the day. Enjoy every interaction with others.

Read the four agreements. Every time I read it, I get something new from it.
Originally Posted by smilie
As far as "the work" is concerned, I would imagine that made up of GALing, ICing, Reading & learning and in my case, getting as well as I can by sorting out this VM condition I have. For me it all rests on creating an income and that must be my focus when I get myself sorted.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I disagree with your assessment that you need to have money to GAL, etc. Even ICing, there are some free resources out there if a person is so motivated to find them. Especially someone that is no or low income.
I didn't mean it in that way! :-) I should have used a different paragraph, but I was saying that I need to focus on making an income when get myself sorted, aka. relocated. It wasn't meant to indicate that I need to have an income to GAL - certainly not!

Originally Posted by SteveLW
We had a LBS here a while back that made all sorts of excuses as to why he couldn't GAL, or IC, or 180/self-improve. The truth was he liked to sit and stew in his own juices and feel sorry for himself. His recovery was long and stunted as a result. He finally jumped into a new R, and I am guessing he has a future BD coming his way because he didn't do the work.
I certainly don't want to sit and stew and I don't want to feel sorry for myself either. I just try to solve this problem that I'm living in. Even my friend said today that it can only be solved by hearing from the court about maintenance, or scrapping going for maintenance and instead agree to go our own separate ways without claim upon each other, otherwise my thinking will just keep going around in circles as the situation isn't changing.

I would also like to be able to move on as quickly as I can and I did have a plan...and now I feel stuck again.

I spent a couple of days away looking at houses in a cheap part of the country. Did I want to live there? No, not really as it was fairly run-down, hence cheap. Could I live there for a while to heal, focus on me, build myself back up? Certainly I could. I made arrangements, was sorting things out and then I mentioned it to my lawyer, who told me to put it on hold for a few days as it would affect my spousal maintenance claim and we were waiting to hear back from the court. Did I take her advice? Yes, I did and it hasn't worked out very well and now it's gone over time the estate agents are on my case asking if I'm ready to fill the forms in to rent the place. I've explained the situation about waiting on the courts still, they have not been in this position before but relayed the information to the landlords who will probably pull out and stick it back on the rental market, even though I have asked what would it take to keep it from being put back up for rent.

I have spoken to my friend to try to get some perspective, I have spoken to the doctor to get some sleeping tablets as I cannot function on less than 3 hours sleep a night like I have been for over 10 weeks. I've also started to get the packing sorted - far too many things and I have once again been looking at houses on advice from my lawyer - there is none in this area.

It's like Groundhog Day just waiting to hear from the court and that's not in my control, but each day goes by costs me more money that I can ill-afford, as I need to pay rent on the house that I am in, into September now - this was not part of the plan, but has been created by following my lawyer's advice.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
I did paid GAL, free GAL, paid IC and improvements, and free improvements. I truly believe that where there is a will, there is a way.
I'm not saying that I can't GAL, I feel stuck as to how. I feel that I must spend the time of the day trying to sort out the issues that I have, trying to sort out possessions and pack, keep the house in good order, look after the huge gardens, etc and try to complete looking for a place to live, away from here.

I spend an hour or so a day just recently talking to support people on the telephone as I feel like an emotional wreck, born out of acting on the advice from my lawyer. I'm second guessing what I think is good for me and where to live and it's driving me nuts - literally.

My plan was to move then GAL, as I would have my own space then and be somewhat settled. While I'm here I feel so stressed as I feel that time is running out. It has been since the start as my stbxw told me that she would pay for things until the end of August - she renegged on that promise and began cancelling things without notice or communication, but the phone an internet is still there so I'm trying to get loads of things sorted. I don't sit down all day - apart from on the PC looking for properties. I spend an hour in the evening looking through posts here - I read them all but can't comment on any as I don't have the insights or knowledge that you guys have. I would like to though.

It would be nice to see what others had been doing for GAL, but I can't seem to search the forums thoroughly. I have been trying to get IC since my wife left and it took 7 weeks for CBT to start and then after 4 weeks they say that it's not suitable for me at the moment and that I need relationship counselling. so they have put me forward for that and there is a 12 week lead time. They will drop the CBT immediately seeing as they have now referred me on - so once again I'm on my own for at least 3 months and then I would have moved and had to start all over again with a different state body.

I did start GAL right at the start of all this. I was training as best I could in my little home gym, trying to push through the panic attacks, I was going to the park for a couple of hours to read and learn things, I was typing a journal so I could work through stuff and then things kept getting more pressured as the days went on and I got more anxious and had less time and now I'm at the whim of the courts, worrying about the outcome and if I will lose this house. I'm trying to ask myself if I should let it go and look for one elsewhere, as if may not be the right house for me. But either way, all the cheaper houses are in the same area, so I'll have an issue with any and all.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
Getting over someone is not easy. The only thing I have seen that helps is time. The more time that goes by the more clarity you will get.
I shall hang on to your every word here - I long for that time.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
LBSs have a way of romanticizing how perfect their MR pre-BD was, and that they have no idea how they'll move on without all of that wedded bliss with that person. The truth is most of us were pretty miserable in our MR as well, but we forget that when the flight or flight instinct kicks in. Give yourself time. This is a marathon, not sprint. Be patient with yourself.
I haven't been romanticizing and our marriage was far from perfect and I would not try to make it out as such. It seemed good for a lot of the time though and it appeared that we were closer than a lot of other relationships that we knew and witnessed - obviously I was wrong as mine didn't last.

Time will tell, yes. I just need to get through the next couple of days hoping I will hear from the court. This is what I worry about and try to find a solution, I can't and it pains me.

Sorry about the length...I did shorten it a tad. :-)
Originally Posted by smilie
I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.

Thats a fair treck from me unfortunetly. Appologies for the delay in replying - I couldnt login on Monday when i tried ( assume update issue )

Onward and Upward !

and as for solicitors - get everything in writing if possible. What they quote and what they bill always differ ! - Mine tried to bill be 50% more than the initial quote for work !
Originally Posted by MrBrside
Originally Posted by smilie
I'm in South Norfolk (just down from Norwich).

It's taking me ages to be able to post on the forum or even see posts, not sure if it's just me, but I hope that you can get access to this. I can't private message you either, as my membership level doesn't allow for that.

Thats a fair treck from me unfortunetly. Appologies for the delay in replying - I couldnt login on Monday when i tried ( assume update issue )
No worries!

How many miles is it from me to you then? Just for the sake of it.

Originally Posted by MrBrside
Onward and Upward !

and as for solicitors - get everything in writing if possible. What they quote and what they bill always differ ! - Mine tried to bill be 50% more than the initial quote for work !

I did want to discuss fixed fee, but then it became irrelevant apparently because of this maintenance claim thing. I need to get my head around it as I don't want to spend any more really, it's all getting a bit unnecessary perhaps?

I'm seriously considering jacking it in what the solicitor is trying to do - claim maintenance. I still haven't heard back from her about the court hearing and it's been 2 weeks now. It was supposed to be sorted in 4 days. Because of the waiting I am on the verge of losing the house I was going to rent. I see little point in paying out all of my pension money on solicitors fees, just to claim maintenance. I may as well use my pension money to live and be free from the stbxw - that was my original plan.

So I am thinking of telling the solicitor not to worry about maintenance and just make my stbxw an offer for us to relinquish all claims against each other and just get the divorce done. No financial stuff to worry about, no headaches. This entire waiting around business has had a seriously adverse effect on my well-being to the extent that I haven't been able to function properly and am consumed by worry about not being able to get on with my life.

The other alternative is to request my dental claim money that was taken without permission, to be returned, or at least 50% of it if we're being fair.

I'm still pondering.....
Originally Posted by smilie
I see little point in paying out all of my pension money on solicitors fees, just to claim maintenance. I may as well use my pension money to live and be free from the stbxw - that was my original plan.

My X spent more on legal fees than she got from me in child support. If my X would have took the money she spent on legal fees and invested it, she would have 5X.

Best thing is to understand the system and your legal rights as well as protect yourself financially.

You have 3 people that want your money. You X, her lawyer and your lawyer. Two get your money by arguing (Negotiating).

I feel for you. This stuff is not easy.
Originally Posted by smile
I see little point in paying out all of my pension money on solicitors fees, just to claim maintenance. I may as well use my pension money to live and be free from the stbxw - that was my original plan.

So I am thinking of telling the solicitor not to worry about maintenance and just make my stbxw an offer for us to relinquish all claims against each other and just get the divorce done. No financial stuff to worry about, no headaches.

smile, it's a financial calculation. Try to set aside feelings. Try to set aside what you've already spent. Your attorney should be able to tell you roughly how much more settling would cost, roughly how much more fighting would cost, your odds if you fight, and what you're likely to win.

E.g., if settling gets you $5,000 and costs nothing more, and fighting gets you an 80% shot at $10,000 and costs you $5,000, you'd want to settle. E.g., if you fight your expected outcome would be less than if you were to settle: -$5000 + 0.2 x $5000 + 0.8 x $10000 = $4,000.

I hired a more expensive attorney but paid less in legal fees than my ex. I never asked them to read or answer a long e-mail. My questions to them were short and precise.
I'm not fighting..... it hasn't got to the finance bit yet, just trying to negotiate interim maintenance so that I can live in the immediate term. The nature of the way she left has left me in the lurch and the pension that came out has made things a tad awkward.

Finally my case for interim maintenance was listed with the court today, some two weeks late. It can take up to another 2 weeks to get heard. It was supposed to have been listed on 26th July and I would have know the verdict by now.

My lawyer has had a couple of letters from the stbxw's and it would appear that she cancelled all the household utilities the day she left. Like I have said before, it has all been ruthlessly planned and she has lied through her teeth, without humility.

So she sent me a text message when she dumped me, saying that she would not abandon me and she would pay the rent and bills until the end of August. I have this is writing and I have this as a recorded phone call - she had cancelled everything two days before sending that message and has only just announced this 11 weeks later and having been given ample opportunity to do so previously.

- She paid one month's rent out of the money she took from my bank account.
- She has cancelled the utilities (gas, water, electric) in her name on the day she left.
- She has arranged to cancel internet and phone from 31 August.

Apparently she shouldn't have done these things without there being a maintenance agreement in place, as they are utilities and you need them to live. And internet is the arguably a similar status same now as people are dependent on it. She has gone ahead closed accounts, informed utility suppliers that I am now paying for bills, etc., all without informing me or my lawyer. Just kept it all as a little secret to be sprung out just today. My lawyer has challenged this.

She has also offered me a quarter of what is being claimed for monthly in maintenance, is far below that which anybody would be able to live on and doesn't meet my outgoings, but shows that she agrees maintenance is needing to be paid by her and has opened the door for communications - preferred by the court. She has also suggested that I pay half of my pension that she arranged to withdraw, into her account now. It is suspected - by me and a colleague of my lawyer's - she has suggested this so that she can use that to pay me maintenance payments, using my own money, just as she did with the rent.

Also a comment made by her lawyer (maybe via her perhaps), has been picked up by my lawyer as inciting fraud. She has commented on it as such in her response to them.

She is also making up stories, as her lawyer has quoted in her letter, that I have never been interested in financial matters - totally fabricated, as I was always making sure with her that things were ok, as I was so conscious of mot being able to bring home an income.

All this has been so frustrating and things just keep appearing continually. I just can't see why she couldn't have just sat down and discussed this stuff, rather than act in such ludicrous, unpredictable and secretive ways. There's nothing adult about this in the slightest. Cancelling things without prior communication is an awful thing to do IMO.

Perhaps I'm not understanding something here and I don't want to come across foolish.

The house I was going to move to I think has fallen through as I was waiting to hear from the court sooner. They've pulled out and are re-marketing it. My fault. I did offer to pay a month rent to hold the property so that I would know my position more fully. They said they were going to call me Monday to see what's happening, but I feel so unsure now. Something doesn't feel quite right but I can't place a finger on it. Not sure if it's something to do with attachment to her, here or the area I have lived around all of my life or something else. The town I was planning to move to was a fairly run down. But that was why the rent was cheaper!

Another week next week - full of surprises no doubt. I do wonder each and every day, how I will get through this turmoil. It is the most unpleasant place I've been in my entire 55 years of existence. I'm sure that I will and I trust that "I will not die.".
Originally Posted by smilie
Apparently she shouldn't have done these things.. My lawyer has challenged this.
So, applying the principles above: (a) How much will this challenge cost? (b) What is the probability of success, (c) if you win, what do you win? It's all a financial matter.

Originally Posted by smilie
I just can't see why she couldn't have just sat down and discussed this stuff, rather than act in such ludicrous, unpredictable and secretive ways. Perhaps I'm not understanding something here and I don't want to come across foolish.
No lawyer I spoke to advised sitting down and discussing divorce in advance. It wasn't in my best interest. I didn't do that either. Again, she's probably doing what she feels is best for her and her chosen family. The impact on her matters. The impact on you doesn't matter. Simple enough?
Originally Posted by smilie
I just can't see why she couldn't have just sat down and discussed this stuff, rather than act in such ludicrous, unpredictable and secretive ways. Perhaps I'm not understanding something here and I don't want to come across foolish.
No lawyer I spoke to advised sitting down and discussing divorce in advance. It wasn't in my best interest. I didn't do that either. Again, she's probably doing what she feels is best for her and her chosen family. The impact on her matters. The impact on you doesn't matter. Simple enough?[/quote]
I wasn't referring to the lawyer. I just don't know how all this happened this bad this quickly. A conversation could have been a starting point, but she chose this mess. And quite frankly, I'm not coping too well with all of this. I haven't been so panicky and so dizzy for so long for years.

It's all very callous.
Originally Posted by smilie
So she sent me a text message when she dumped me, saying that she would not abandon me and she would pay the rent and bills until the end of August. - she had cancelled everything two days before sending that message and has only just announced this 11 weeks later and having been given ample opportunity to do so previously.

- She paid one month's rent out of the money she took from my bank account.
- She has cancelled the utilities (gas, water, electric) in her name on the day she left.
- She has arranged to cancel internet and phone from 31 August.

I wasn't referring to the lawyer.
Her exact text was "the rent and bills." I imagine it was frustrating learning "the bills" only included phone and Internet, and she changed her mind about the rent. In your area, is texting an intention to pay rent, legally binding? That's a simple question for your attorney. If yes, a request to her attorney or the court should get your money back. If no, your court allows changing one's mind. Around me, binding contracts often require signatures and/or witnesses such as notaries. It may differ around you.

Paying you less is in the best interest of her and her chosen family.

Creating a mess for you is a side effect.

Be careful with recorded phone calls. Around me, if it was a voicemail you're golden, but if you recorded her live without her permission you'd be the one in hot water. The laws may differ around you.
Hi smilie! How are things going?
Thanks for asking. Things have been tough, emotionally and practically. I understand what you were saying from my wife perspective that she just wants the best for her, but I just can't get over the way she has gone about it - pretending everything was fine up until the last moment but planning a year or so in advance, on so on.... It is cold and it has effected me terribly.

I may have lost the house I was going for due to the complications of this maintenance claim and my lawyer advising I wait a few days. That few days has now turned into over 2 weeks and still no outcome. If I still have a chance to get this house (I called them yesterday and am waiting a callback) then I may suggest that my wife just settle on paying my years rent (which I need to put up front and will be the claim money that she unlawfully removed a year prior to leaving) & legal costs, then I will have no further claim on her , or her on me. Not in my best interests, but if this goes on further I will be left with absolutely nothing as it will go on both the wife and the lawyer. So really I don't see the point. I am thinking a clean break and retain my pension funds to fall back on.

Everything seems to complicated. My wife said at the start of this that she wanted to keep things simple and not rack-up legal costs, yet she's once again doing exactly the opposite. I don't trust anything she does or says.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't struggling and I seem to be stuck getting stuff done, liking sorting out the house contents/packing. I am part-way through but it slowed/stopped when all this court stuff for maintenance got going.

I feel the whole world is out to get me at the moment and truly wish that I had an income to help give me more options. My vertigo and other symptoms have been awful, so has the doctor and I feel completely alone. Saying that, I'm going out today with a couple of other people just to get out and I did find a couple of meetup groups that meet once and week. But only got internet for a couple of weeks then that's that gone.

I'll know more once I get a response from the rental agent.

Sorry it wasn't more upbeat!
smilie, if you could make her stay against her will, would you?
No, never.

I wouldn't do or expect that, which is why I agreed for her to go when she told me she wanted space for a couple of days (the excuse to leave). Part of me knew that it was likely she wouldn't return, reinforced by the brief heavy sob that she let out when she briefly hugged me before she went, but I hoped that she would. Of course I tried to find the issue and the why and the discussion went down that route - of course it did. Then just before she went I told her that she was breaking my heart - she was, she did ... she has.

Neither would I want her back, not the person she has shown herself to be now anyway. I would have appreciated honesty though, rather than this despicable cloak and dagger stuff that started at least 2 years prior and has been built on lies, deceit and so much hurt, manipulation (that I'm still working out) & the financial loss - only uncovered after she had left.

I think of our life together, certain days just pop into my mind continually, each one stabbing the emptiness in my heart until it physically hurts. Did I, would I want to change her mind, yes I would want to change her mind, yes I tried. I wouldn't know how to make anybody stay against their will, surely this is not possible, is it?
Originally Posted by smilie
I feel completely alone. Saying that, I'm going out today with a couple of other people just to get out and I did find a couple of meetup groups that meet once and week.
That's fantastic! GAL is strongly correlated with positive outcomes.

Originally Posted by smilie
But only got internet for a couple of weeks then that's that gone.
Have you worked out borrowing your neighbor's wi-fi or public access points? I understand not wanting to do banking on public wi-fi, but maybe accessing Meetup is okay?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by smilie
I feel completely alone. Saying that, I'm going out today with a couple of other people just to get out and I did find a couple of meetup groups that meet once and week.
That's fantastic! GAL is strongly correlated with positive outcomes.
It was nice yesterday, but felt really strange, like I'm in some strange reality in my head. Meetup groups are only online, none around here that meet IRL at the moment. There was one groups but they are in a different part of the country.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by smilie
But only got internet for a couple of weeks then that's that gone.
Have you worked out borrowing your neighbor's wi-fi or public access points? I understand not wanting to do banking on public wi-fi, but maybe accessing Meetup is okay?
The neighbours aren't interested in letting me borrow - I have asked twice now. The public wifi here has only 2 spots in the town - a cafe and a pub - and they are both really weak and keep timing out. It's a nightmare.
Originally Posted by smilie
No, never.

I wouldn't do or expect that, which is why I agreed for her to go when she told me she wanted space for a couple of days (the excuse to leave). Part of me knew that it was likely she wouldn't return, reinforced by the brief heavy sob that she let out when she briefly hugged me before she went, but I hoped that she would. Of course I tried to find the issue and the why and the discussion went down that route - of course it did. Then just before she went I told her that she was breaking my heart - she was, she did ... she has.

Neither would I want her back, not the person she has shown herself to be now anyway. I would have appreciated honesty though, rather than this despicable cloak and dagger stuff that started at least 2 years prior and has been built on lies, deceit and so much hurt, manipulation (that I'm still working out) & the financial loss - only uncovered after she had left.

I think of our life together, certain days just pop into my mind continually, each one stabbing the emptiness in my heart until it physically hurts. Did I, would I want to change her mind, yes I would want to change her mind, yes I tried. I wouldn't know how to make anybody stay against their will, surely this is not possible, is it?

No smilie, it isn't possible. Not legally as to do so would be kidnapping. But my point wasn't that it was possible. I like the way you answered. That no you wouldn't want her to stay if she doesn't want to. This is the right answer. But letting go is more than just a physical thing. Letting go is emotional and mental too. You've done the physical letting go. But you continue to struggle with the emotional and mental part. Which tells me that you were overly attached, probably from the beginning.

I detect in you a tendency I've seen in a few people over the course of my life. The tendency to latch on to someone and not want to let go no matter what that person says or does. It reminds me of the scene in Dumb and Dumber, where Jim Carrey's character is told by the object of his desire that there is a 1 in a million chance of them ending up together. And his character responds with "So you're saying there's a chance!" No actually she said the opposite, but he heard what he wanted to hear in order to continue to pursue her.

smilie, I think you know logically she is gone forever, but your heart won't let you understand that. And then your lack of self assurance makes you think that your world is ending. It isn't. She isn't your life, your existence. Heck no one can be that. We live in an imperfect world where disease and death is around the corner! You could have lost her to those things at any moment in time. Being paralyzed by her loss to the point of not being able to move forward is unhealthy (which is why you need IC). And it isn't fair to the other person to put that kind of pressure on them. No one wants to be responsible for another person's happiness!

So what are you going to do to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get out of your malaise? It is up to you! CW is a perfect example of someone that recently did that.
Well technically you can make someone stay against their will without it being kidnapping, but it takes a sh!t ton of emotional manipulation and a totally lack of empathy to do so. So it's possible but I don't think anyone who's even in the slightest emotionally evolved would want to do that.

As to the how things ended. While I can understand your distress over the financial aspects of this, because let's be real she was basically grifting you at the end, I'm not really sure why you're so hyper focused on her planning her exit for a year or two. This is entirely common. Most people don't just up and leave marriages. Especially ones that aren't brand new.

My H was considering an exit for almost a year before he actually planned to leave me for OW, but could never go through it. Not because he didn't want out, but because every time he thought he was ready to go he remembered why he was there in the first place. In his case it would turn into a cycle of resentment for me literally making his life easier and being a good wife. He was mad that I was "keeping him there." Which obviously I wasn't. He was just realizing his reasoning for leaving was ridiculous, and me just being me got in the way of his flawed logic. He can articulate that now, but at the time it was all vitriol and re-written history.

I had been wanting out for half of my MR in my first MR. I'd come back in because he'd beg and cry, and promise to change. And we'd do the same thing over and over. And finally I got to a point where I decided I just needed to get out. I started stashing money away as my ex was financial abusive it was very, very hard for me to get my hands on that money and hide it. I can say I wasn't planning on leaving when I left. I had hoped to stay for 6-12 more months so I could leave and get a place of my own with all my own stuff, but something happened financially and I refused to bail him out so when he went to go beg his parents for the money I packed me and my kid up and went to go stay with a friend who had extra rooms for us.

I realize these are just two examples but there are tons on this board. There are very few people who wake up one day and think you know I want out and just leave. And honestly I would think a person like that is far more unhinged than a person who's really thought about leaving for a while before they pull the trigger. And would your pain right now be any less if she just packed her sh!t and walked out the door to never return? You can't control how this happened. It sukks. I understand. But focus that energy on something you can control.

So in that vein, here stateside people with low and fixed incomes can get a huge discount on broadband and DSL internet. According to a quick google search it says people with Pension Credit, Income Support or Universal Credit are eligible for BT+Broadband, and it seems pretty low cost. It also says Virgin Media is a good option as they do offer low income deals. I'm not sure how that would all work but it's something you may want to look into.
Hi smilie! I hope wayfarer's stories help. I'll add my preparations to ensure I'd come out okay if I D'd began before I made a final D / no-D decision. Just now I'm imagining my XW scratching her head months after I left and imagining, "Eureeka! So that's why he was so eager to see me switch from breastfeeding to pumping. He planned to leave a year before he left!!" In case that sounds odd, breastfeeding is a factor courts consider in some states when awarding custody.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Letting go is emotional and mental too. You've done the physical letting go. But you continue to struggle with the emotional and mental part. Which tells me that you were overly attached, probably from the beginning.

I detect in you a tendency I've seen in a few people over the course of my life. The tendency to latch on to someone and not want to let go no matter what that person says or does. It reminds me of the scene in Dumb and Dumber, where Jim Carrey's character is told by the object of his desire that there is a 1 in a million chance of them ending up together. And his character responds with "So you're saying there's a chance!" No actually she said the opposite, but he heard what he wanted to hear in order to continue to pursue her.

smilie, I think you know logically she is gone forever, but your heart won't let you understand that. And then your lack of self assurance makes you think that your world is ending. It isn't. She isn't your life, your existence. Heck no one can be that. We live in an imperfect world where disease and death is around the corner! You could have lost her to those things at any moment in time. Being paralyzed by her loss to the point of not being able to move forward is unhealthy (which is why you need IC). And it isn't fair to the other person to put that kind of pressure on them. No one wants to be responsible for another person's happiness!

So what are you going to do to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get out of your malaise? It is up to you! CW is a perfect example of someone that recently did that.

I really am struggling with this and it's a lot about the legal stuff. I have been waiting on the court for spousal maintenance claim to be heard ... still. I'm left trying to meet the rent for this house, cannot face opening post and am really going downhill I feel as I can't stop shaking even now, some 12 weeks on.

Yes I know it's over but she has done such a number on the finances that I cannot do anything. The pressure is mounting each day that passes as another month rent is due. I still have nobody who can help, my friend (who has ASD) just keeps saying that things are going round in circles with the conversation - I agree - as I am still waiting on the court - 3 days has turned into 4 weeks and still no word.

Every step I had envisioned and planned has been discouraged by my lawyer as it would not be the best option for me. She advised me to wait for the maintenance claim to be heard in court so we know where we are, as anything I do will affect my claim in some way.

I have also heard (via the lawyers) from my wife offering a very small amount per month, which wouldn't even meet rental payments, let alone anything else. She also dropped in that she stopped paying the utility bills here the day that she left and she has informed the companies and passed them my name - all without communicating that all this time. My lawyer isn't happy as she is doing this stuff outside of discussion, an agreement, or court ruling.

My thoughts are all over the place and I have not had a good experience with the doctors. I have never in my life experienced anxiety such as this and I wish it would stop. I have been trying to get IC now since day 1 and have now just been told that I have been put forward for relationship counselling but there is a 12-week wait. I don't know what else to do.

You mention that it's not fair for me to put pressure on her - am I getting this right? I am putting no pressure on her, it's 100% the other way around. This is of her creation. She said she wanted it simple and for me to use her lawyer rather than get my own, but she's making it complicated and expensive. She has gone against everything that she said, has acted and continues to act (in writing) in ways that are bordering on fraud. I still can't see how she is acting in this way and consider perhaps she is being influenced? Just a thought.

What am I going to do to end my malaise? I really don't know as this all revolves around finances and income - neither of which I have. I really haven't been so stuck in all my life. Had I had an income things would be vastly different as I wouldn't need to wait for the maintenance claim.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
As to the how things ended. While I can understand your distress over the financial aspects of this, because let's be real she was basically grifting you at the end, I'm not really sure why you're so hyper focused on her planning her exit for a year or two. This is entirely common. Most people don't just up and leave marriages. Especially ones that aren't brand new.
Yes she was grifting me and that is not a nice thing to do and is the thing that has really got to me I think. This was never in her character and I refuse to believe that this is of her own doing without the input of another.

I wouldn't say that I was hyper-focused on this, it was just surprising. I didn't know it was common as I have never looked to do anything like it.

Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
I realize these are just two examples but there are tons on this board. There are very few people who wake up one day and think you know I want out and just leave. And honestly I would think a person like that is far more unhinged than a person who's really thought about leaving for a while before they pull the trigger. And would your pain right now be any less if she just packed her sh!t and walked out the door to never return? You can't control how this happened. It sukks. I understand. But focus that energy on something you can control.
I understand that it's not just a sudden thing, but that's the way it appears from the LBS viewpoint, especially when nothing has been mentioned or indicated to be an issue.

This is exactly what she did the last time and I'm 100% certain that she was living with OM too for best part of 9 months before she wanted to come back home. This doesn't not mean that I'm waiting, so please don't read that, but I do miss the person that she was and the life we built & spent together.

So what can I control? This is the question. I feel that there is little I can control and because the financial aspect is getting in a precarious position, the worry of that is overtaking everything else. I really don't know how to put my worries - or ruminations - aside.

I have just revisited the court filing and it's only been a week, so hopefully I should head something next week.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
So in that vein, here stateside people with low and fixed incomes can get a huge discount on broadband and DSL internet. According to a quick google search it says people with Pension Credit, Income Support or Universal Credit are eligible for BT+Broadband, and it seems pretty low cost. It also says Virgin Media is a good option as they do offer low income deals. I'm not sure how that would all work but it's something you may want to look into.
Ah thank you so much for this. This isn't something that is advertised or passed on. We can't get Virgin around here, but the BT option looks good. I need to get in there probably as I'm not sure about the implications on Universal Credit and the maintenance claim. I am also waiting to hear back from my stbxw following a letter of response from my lawyer regarding utilities as she mentioned she had arranged for the phone line to be disconnected at end of August. Not sure if it is happening yet, but it probably will by her past actions. Once I find out for sure I shall sign-up for the BT one as it looks good.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi smilie! I hope wayfarer's stories help. I'll add my preparations to ensure I'd come out okay if I D'd began before I made a final D / no-D decision. Just now I'm imagining my XW scratching her head months after I left and imagining, "Eureeka! So that's why he was so eager to see me switch from breastfeeding to pumping. He planned to leave a year before he left!!" In case that sounds odd, breastfeeding is a factor courts consider in some states when awarding custody.
Yes wayfarer's stories do help understand things a tad better.

Seeing as I didn't know about any relationship issues, etc. I haven't been able to prepare anything and I wouldn't know how to protect my [very limited] assets - mainly pensions and from what I've just read there are no options at this stage really. She's had the upper-hand all along and could easily have set up trusts, etc (this is her line of work) a year so so ago as part of the planning process. Who knows, I'm guessing but it's highly probable in hindsight, as she was researching Private Trusts last year.
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Letting go is emotional and mental too. You've done the physical letting go. But you continue to struggle with the emotional and mental part. Which tells me that you were overly attached, probably from the beginning.

I detect in you a tendency I've seen in a few people over the course of my life. The tendency to latch on to someone and not want to let go no matter what that person says or does. It reminds me of the scene in Dumb and Dumber, where Jim Carrey's character is told by the object of his desire that there is a 1 in a million chance of them ending up together. And his character responds with "So you're saying there's a chance!" No actually she said the opposite, but he heard what he wanted to hear in order to continue to pursue her.

smilie, I think you know logically she is gone forever, but your heart won't let you understand that. And then your lack of self assurance makes you think that your world is ending. It isn't. She isn't your life, your existence. Heck no one can be that. We live in an imperfect world where disease and death is around the corner! You could have lost her to those things at any moment in time. Being paralyzed by her loss to the point of not being able to move forward is unhealthy (which is why you need IC). And it isn't fair to the other person to put that kind of pressure on them. No one wants to be responsible for another person's happiness!

So what are you going to do to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get out of your malaise? It is up to you! CW is a perfect example of someone that recently did that.

I really am struggling with this and it's a lot about the legal stuff. I have been waiting on the court for spousal maintenance claim to be heard ... still. I'm left trying to meet the rent for this house, cannot face opening post and am really going downhill I feel as I can't stop shaking even now, some 12 weeks on.

Yes I know it's over but she has done such a number on the finances that I cannot do anything. The pressure is mounting each day that passes as another month rent is due. I still have nobody who can help, my friend (who has ASD) just keeps saying that things are going round in circles with the conversation - I agree - as I am still waiting on the court - 3 days has turned into 4 weeks and still no word.

Every step I had envisioned and planned has been discouraged by my lawyer as it would not be the best option for me. She advised me to wait for the maintenance claim to be heard in court so we know where we are, as anything I do will affect my claim in some way.

I have also heard (via the lawyers) from my wife offering a very small amount per month, which wouldn't even meet rental payments, let alone anything else. She also dropped in that she stopped paying the utility bills here the day that she left and she has informed the companies and passed them my name - all without communicating that all this time. My lawyer isn't happy as she is doing this stuff outside of discussion, an agreement, or court ruling.

My thoughts are all over the place and I have not had a good experience with the doctors. I have never in my life experienced anxiety such as this and I wish it would stop. I have been trying to get IC now since day 1 and have now just been told that I have been put forward for relationship counselling but there is a 12-week wait. I don't know what else to do.

You mention that it's not fair for me to put pressure on her - am I getting this right? I am putting no pressure on her, it's 100% the other way around. This is of her creation. She said she wanted it simple and for me to use her lawyer rather than get my own, but she's making it complicated and expensive. She has gone against everything that she said, has acted and continues to act (in writing) in ways that are bordering on fraud. I still can't see how she is acting in this way and consider perhaps she is being influenced? Just a thought.

What am I going to do to end my malaise? I really don't know as this all revolves around finances and income - neither of which I have. I really haven't been so stuck in all my life. Had I had an income things would be vastly different as I wouldn't need to wait for the maintenance claim.

The pressure you put on her was preBD, didn't mean to suggest you are currently putting pressure on her. Your over attachment was not healthy for you not for her. It's more an encouragement to use this as an opportunity to self improver on that for the future.

smilie, I'd encourage you to look at ways to improve your financial situation. I know you've put all of your eggs in a singular basket. Not sure how the courts over the operate but here they can take a longgggggggggg time. Not sure if your expectations for a quick resolution are aligned with reality.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, I'd encourage you to look at ways to improve your financial situation. I know you've put all of your eggs in a singular basket. Not sure how the courts over the operate but here they can take a longgggggggggg time. Not sure if your expectations for a quick resolution are aligned with reality

I have done all can re financial situation. The order is for an 'emergency interim order' and should be heard at the latest this week - mind you should have been heard a week or so ago.

These are not my expectations - my lawyer has advised me to wait for the courts. I don't know what else I can do at this stage. I have just sent an email asking her for an update.

I just really wish I could work and bring in an income - I have wanted this for so long now. Life seems like I have woken up inside a really bad dream.
I have just found out today via my lawyer, that my wife only met this guy on 23rd April and moved in with him on 23rd May, after not seeing him for 9/10 years.

If this is the truth (which my lawyer says the courts will find it hard to believe) then it is likely the same guy she was with for 9 months in 2011. This doesn't take into consideration that she had withdrawn the savings in June 2020 and had been emptying them since May 2019 and that she had her eyes on withdrawing and taking my pension.

She claims to have spent all of the money she took and that she has amounted a huge amount of debt.

There are letters with my lawyer email that I haven't got the strength to read, as she says that they are upsetting - so probably running me down even more.
Originally Posted by smilie
This doesn't take into consideration that she had withdrawn the savings in June 2020 and had been emptying them since May 2019
Makes sense? Her wanting to leave is likely to precede her finding an exit affair.

Originally Posted by smilie
There are letters with my lawyer email that I haven't got the strength to read, as she says that they are upsetting - so probably running me down even more.
Smilie, of course, reading the details of her exit affair is going to be difficult and may have a negative effect on your emotional state. Given you are already in a hard place, may I ask why you're doing this to yourself? Is there some action or decision your lawyer requires from you that demands you read these? Otherwise, be kind to yourself. Let your lawyer read it while you invest this time and energy better into GAL, preparing to start your own business, learning new skills for that business, etc.

Originally Posted by smilie
I just really wish I could work and bring in an income - I have wanted this for so long now. Life seems like I have woken up inside a really bad dream.
Is your new business ready to go LIVE the day the court weighs in next week? E.g., that day your business name is filed, p.o. box, phone number, domain name, website, advertising, purchasable products or services via credit card and/or Paypal, etc? If not, what are you waiting for?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Makes sense? Her wanting to leave is likely to precede her finding an exit affair.
It sort of makes sense logically, but if she was having issues and wasn't happy, then she had no business looking for houses and giving me the impression that we had a future. She should have communicated that she wasn't happy. I know that people don't, but if this was the case then she should have held the conversation. After she withdrew the money, we were actively building a future (seemingly) and doing loads of other things. This is what doesn't make sense to me and never will.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Smilie, of course, reading the details of her exit affair is going to be difficult and may have a negative effect on your emotional state. Given you are already in a hard place, may I ask why you're doing this to yourself? Is there some action or decision your lawyer requires from you that demands you read these?
Actually that's a really good point. I didn't see that as an option. I shall inform my lawyer of this tomorrow.

Quote
Otherwise, be kind to yourself. Let your lawyer read it while you invest this time and energy better into GAL, preparing to start your own business, learning new skills for that business, etc.

Is your new business ready to go LIVE the day the court weighs in next week? E.g., that day your business name is filed, p.o. box, phone number, domain name, website, advertising, purchasable products or services via credit card and/or Paypal, etc? If not, what are you waiting for?
I would love to be able to do this, but I won't be able to get this done in such a short time - although some of it has been done to some extent.

- Website, Check (half done)
- Domain name (check)

Please forgive me if I am being stupid, but why get all this done prior to the courts weighing in? Show intention to work?

I wonder if I could get somebody to help me set all that up really cheaply. I suppose I could create a version of my website as one page and keep it simple, that will mean I can get it done quicker.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
According to a quick google search it says people with Pension Credit, Income Support or Universal Credit are eligible for BT+Broadband, and it seems pretty low cost
I must really thank you for this. In response to my lawyer saying that my wife was going to terminate the internet and phone from end of August in any event and recommended that I sort out an alternative provider, I called BT. I had researched it before when you said about it.

I spoke to a really nice girl and told her my situation and asked about the service. She looked my information up and told me that I qualify. For 15gbp/mnth I get unlimited broadband, unlimited phone calls, new home phone & router, a free house moving service (in as much as moving the broadband for free when I move) and I can keep the same phone number.

The connection date is 31 August - the exact same date as I get disconnected from my previous supplier.

Out of all the rubbish things that have happened over the past 12 weeks, this is the best one that has cheered me up! All my worries about not having internet for phone access have gone, and I was told that internet will only be down for a few hours that day. I told the girl that I loved her and thanked her. I know it sounds stupid, but that was the best phone call I have ever had and a huge weight off my shoulders.

Your help here was invaluable and I am extremely grateful for you mentioning this.

---

Today I went to the neighbouring town to meet a guy I used to chat to in the coffee shop when the wife and I used to live near there. I met him in the town I lived in. It was a good chat and yes, I did tell him about my position, but we also spoke about other stuff. He was telling me that there a cycling groups around that town that go out in the country. I have to email him later with some information I said I would send and will ask if he can find out with the groups there, if there are any cycling groups around this area - then I need to get a bike!

I also went to the shop to get a few bits, get some fuel and drove home. All of it was tough as it was the first time I had been to the town and the coffee shop since we had split and everything reminded me of what we used to do. But I did it anyway, regardless of the shakes. I know it sounds so basic and pathetic, but everything is an effort and everything I look at looks weird - I see it as it is, but it seems like it's not real and that I'm looking at an illusion rather than being a part of things. This is a similar feeling I had right at the start of this neurological thing, where I felt dissociated almost all of the time.

Regarding my frame of mind, lack of sleep and stress levels, I have a call from the mental health team tomorrow - not that I'm unstable or anything you understand smile - but because I am finding all this so tough and can't stop shaking and am finding things difficult. I spoke to the guy a couple of days ago and he seems like a nice guy. He said that he just wants to see how they can help. I don't want to get dragged down by this and it looks like my wife is doing everything possible to make try to make that happen - since she left. But I am doing what I can to get the support I need in the short-term.

I also chatted to a woman who called today who works in social care, to see if she could offer any advice or assistance with stuff, seeing as this bloomin' condition gets in the way. Had a good chat, and she will call me tomorrow after looking into what she may be able to help with. I discussed about housing options, etc., although I don't want to get stuck in an inadequate property where I need to get rid of all of my belongings to 'fit into' it. This is another massive worry for me.

I think the hardest thing is that I've gone from having an OK life, planning and thinking about the future and working out how to create an income, to having everything taken from me and being thrust into an nightmare situation. But that's how we grow, right?

I know it sounds harsh, but I can't be held responsible for my wife's decisions, she has to face the consequences of those - whatever they may be, including taking money without knowledge or authorization, stopping paying the rent for a property she is on the tenancy for, cancelling utility bills, etc. Her decisions have put me in a situation that I cannot support myself in ... yet ... and I know I need to create a different one. CWarrior's comments have made me think, but for the life of me I can't see how that would benefit my situation prior to the courts getting involved. However I can see how that would benefit me going forward. I have to give some thought into how to simplify what I can offer, but I know a good place to start with that now and meet-up has given me a different slant to my original idea. I'm just concerned that I am not in the right frame of mind at the moment, although one could argue that it may get me into the right frame of mind!

Just came off a Zoom group (via meetup) about overcoming anxiety (second week). This is a good group and the guy who runs it assigns practical tasks and then split people up one-on-one for a discussion. It's a shame it's not IRL.
The other thing that I would anticipate why my lawyer said that the content of the letters are upsetting, is because I would expect my wife to claim that she is pregnant by OM. Of course at this stage it is only speculation, but it seems a logical conclusion as to why she left. Otherwise why wold my lawyer tell me the content is upsetting?

Talk about emotional turmoil.

I shall start a new thread tomorrow when I can get my head together.
Hi Smilie, there's often truth to our gut instincts but.. "it seems a logical conclusion as to why she left." While that would be a good reason to leave, she already wanted out, had been planning her escape for a year, and was in the midst of an affair. That's reason enough for most. "Why else would the lawyer tell me the content is upsetting." You wouldn't believe how many upsetting scenarios are possible. Sometimes our "gut" speaks to our fears. Is your STBXW never getting pregnant a sore point for you?
Originally Posted by smilie
Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, I'd encourage you to look at ways to improve your financial situation. I know you've put all of your eggs in a singular basket. Not sure how the courts over the operate but here they can take a longgggggggggg time. Not sure if your expectations for a quick resolution are aligned with reality

I have done all can re financial situation. The order is for an 'emergency interim order' and should be heard at the latest this week - mind you should have been heard a week or so ago.

These are not my expectations - my lawyer has advised me to wait for the courts. I don't know what else I can do at this stage. I have just sent an email asking her for an update.

I just really wish I could work and bring in an income - I have wanted this for so long now. Life seems like I have woken up inside a really bad dream.

I've never known anyone that improved their situation with wishes. Admittedly, I don't know your circumstance but find out difficult to believe that you have no options. Heck you used to work in IT. We are doing that from home these days!! And if you can't even do that, I find it hard to believe you can't get disability on a country as open to social programs as yours.

Anyway, I hope they courts move on it. But I would want to have more of my own fortune in my own hands.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Is your STBXW never getting pregnant a sore point for you?
Yes it would have been. As she has to have a termination a few years after we met as she was ill and was on drugs that may have affected her/baby. She also 'dupped' me into getting pregnant a few years back - I believe she was on the pill and having an affair.

I have quickly read the document. It was a statement of truth saying that she had met this guy one month before she left. She hadn't seen him for 9/10 years - apparently.

This tells me that she was living with this guy when she left the first time and it is likely that she has been seeing him all this time. The lawyer says that the courts would find it hard to believe that she moved in after just one month.

I haven't read it in detail.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I've never known anyone that improved their situation with wishes. Admittedly, I don't know your circumstance but find out difficult to believe that you have no options. Heck you used to work in IT. We are doing that from home these days!!
This is so frustrating to try and explain. Yes I used to be in IT - over 7 years ago. Yes I used to sit and look at a screen all day with no issues. I used to sit at a desk all day, with no issues.

Since I've had that vertigo attack and now have this 'thing' I can't see a screen as my eyes are blurry. I used reading glasses that make me so dizzy after 15 minutes. My left arm goes numb, my neck gets stiff within moments unbearable, increases my tinnintus and makes my head feel so awful I don't know what to do with myself. Just typing this for 10 minutes makes it worse in almost seconds, so I can't sit and do it very long. It's unbelievebly difficult to explain. This is why I had to give up IT. I also get chronic fatigue after being up for an hour, although in recent days because of the stress I can't sleep.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
And if you can't even do that, I find it hard to believe you can't get disability on a country as open to social programs as yours.
I can't. It's not a recognised disability. I have applied to Personal Independance Payments which focuses on individual disability, but it is unlikely I will be successful I have been told. The reason being is that all the questions are leading yes/no, "Can you cook a meal?", "can you wash yourself?", "Can you take medication on your own?". These are so basic that unless you're virtually bedridden it's hard. I had the expert at the Citizens Advice help me complete it and she says it's unlikely. It's been sent off now weeks ago, it can takes months for an assessment if they decide.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
Anyway, I hope they courts move on it. But I would want to have more of my own fortune in my own hands.
Yes so would I and I don't know how to accomplish that.

I understand about what you say about "wishes", but I do. I have tried so hard over the years to get stuff sorted, I think I have mentioned before. The wife and I were going to work on stuff together, but it would appear she disregarded that without telling me. I was waiting for her and kept mentioning, I was doing bits as far as I could go. She don't bits to a certain point then stopped.

I want to get it all going now and it is hard feeling like I am. I am in so much pain as my wife used to crack my ribs in each day and that hasn't been done for 12 weeks. I've spent so much time with glasses on that I can't see anything and my head is awful. I have to use the PC for everything and sit there with my neck getting stiffer - this last's for days/weeks at a time. It's been permanent and increasing since my wife has left. I have been to the doctor, I am in touch with physio (who won't see people now), I have been to the osteopath when it got really bad but I can't keep affording that - less than a week later it's bad again.

This is how I have been for over 7 years and I cannot find a solution to it. There isn't one.

I notice I say I can't also, which may not be helpful, but I don;t know how to find answers when the medical industry (both main and alternative) haven't got answers. I have been trying to find a solution to this for 7 years, constantly - diet, CBD oil/cannabis, fasting, turpentine protocol for parasites, epilepsy drugs, beta blockers, anti-depressants, acupunture, chiropractic, Watson Approach, deep neck flexor physio, etc. - I can't remember all of what we tried over the years but it's been fairly extensive and this also effect my cognition.

I have always said that I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
I have started a new thread here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2922469&#Post2922469
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