Okay so I got Divorce Remedy about 2 weeks ago. And I really have needed to share my story amd talk to others who get this. My friends and family just want me to let go and I cant tell them about this as they would never understand.
So first I'll start by saying that my husband and I have been together for 4 and a half years. Married for a year and a half now. My husband has cheated on me all of 3 times now. One was a year into our relationship he talked to a OW for 2 days then told her he was in a relationship and ended it. So it was short but it really shook me as ive been cheated on before alot. And I dont believe we ever truly completely healed from that due to not doing the work necessary. I never truly trusted him 100% and over the years I had some issues with spying on him a bit, just with LIFE360 which we both did for safety reason and looking at his phone. Honestly I didint even see it as a privacy issue it just became a habit for and my husband never really communicated effectively with me that he was having issues with it either. After months and months of build up he would just explode about it. Anyways in November of 2020 he talked to a woman for 2 months, they never met up but they talked every day, mainly just about their days, the OW hadnt known he was married and he had ended it right before she found out. So February was when I found out and we had been working on trust since then again. Now me and my husband have been in a good place for a few months, good times and all, making plans, he got a new job and put me on all his benefactor stuff everything which was in May so everything seemed fine.
Then it happened, my husband was working an event and I was there, a rodeo, we ran into eachother and all was good. Later in the night there was a little miscommunication where he had thought I had left and I hadnt so he had asked me if I was there, I replied back. Then he got chewed out my his boss for being on his phone. I had found him a few minutes after and he basically yelled and flipped out on me about still being there and told me "its like your just here to spy on me" I tried explaining to him that I wasnt and I was just trying to enjoy the event but he was in his mood so I devided to leave. That's the event before he came home and told me he thought we should seperate for awhile. We decided to make a time to decide our rules for it. He said he only wanted 2 weeks, etc. And that the time was for us to get space and was NOT for talking to other people. Well it never happened as the first day of the separation I found out he had made a Tinder and confronted him. He wouldnt ever really talk to me about it specfically and just said he was done. Said he wanted a divorce. That was about 3 weeks ago. Since then we have slept in the same bed, cuddled, even have had sex a few times. He invited me to a family dinner and talked about our future to people so I thought maybe the divorce was out of anger and we were okay. He even drank a bit and said dinner and after told me that "I make him so happy and that I was beautiful and we were going to work on my future now" (Little backstory my husband did 6 months for basic and AIT and I had to put my career on hold for helping him through that and until he got the police job he wanted). Anyways so the a few days later we had a relationship talk and he said he wants to start talking to a lawyer. And I was completely shocked, I had thought we were good, I tried bringing up the night he told me those things but he just said "he doesnt remember them" so basically that he doesn't recognize that he said those things. My husband is a pessimist (tells me that himself) so he has been rewriting our marriage alot lately yo make it seems bad. Anyways I of course pleaded with him yo give us longer, to consider separation and he wouldn't even discuss them. For the last week or 2 he has worked constantly so we havent talked much more about anything. I havent even gotten yo talk to him about why he wants a divorce and what problems he feels we have.
Also I found out about a week ago he had sex with another woman who he hasnt talked to since she found out he was married. When I confronted him about it I was hurt and mad, he immediately got his keys and wallet and drove to his moms, he wouldnt talk to me at all about. The one questions I asked him was "Are you sure about the divorce because your not in love with me anymore or because you dont think I'll ever forgive you for this? And he said "a bit of both" which I replied "so you dont love me? And he said "I do love you. And drove off Now we were technically separated I guess since he said hes 100% sure about divorce. But during this time we were in the same bed and having sex still. Now obviously I am hurt to my core about all of this but since then I havent brought it up. I decided for myself to forgive him and let I go, at least for noe. Now I know he has a Tinder and has been talking to other people I'm sure.
Tad bit about my husband, I am 27, he is 24. I was his first kiss and everything. He was homeschooled and very sheltered by his very controlling mother. I do not complain about mothers ever and I have always encouraged their relationship. She even watches my 7 year old son. But she is the most judgmental people I know. She has 4 sons. My husband is then only one that even talks to her. As in like years and years. She hates anyone her son's date as she wants them to be all about her. So for our entire relationship she has bad mouthed me, even when she didny know me to him and he has always ignored her. But as we know hearing someone say things loudly over and over for years things can seep in. I truly believe my husband was considering trying for our marriage right before I confronted him about the OW he had sex with, but after that he stayed at his moms and I believe in the state he was in her words resonnated in him now. Since then he has told me he wants a divorce and he wants us to get a lawyer. That's the only discussion we have had on the subject which was about a week ago I'd say.
Now I have decided I am going to DB to the very end. Its been hard but I have kept my faith. Today it is starting to waiver. Though we have still been in the bed my husband has started to kiss me less and has said "we need to stop sleeping together, it confuses things" I dont know if he means more for me having hope or for him. My husband is acting differently which hurts and I know its his guilt over the cheating and the only 2 people he has in his ears are against marraige and encourage sleeping around and freedom. Which I know doesnt help, he's never seen a good marriage before. Anyways this is my story thus far, I know its alot and I apologize, I hope some will read this as I really need help, I wanted to give alot of info as to give a rounded story of us.
Side note: We were texting some stuff and I sent his these funny picture and he texted me "I love the [censored] out of you" only few days ago.
Few questions I have:
Should I be having sex and sleeping with him?
There's not much in the book on this, especially since he's talking to other women. But I'm conflicted, sex gives intimacy and cuddling does to so part of me feels like I should keep doing these things as he allows to have our intimacy still there. But alot of methods say to detach and not pursue etc. So I'm worried that maybe I shouldnt be giving him these things. Just not sure what the best course of action is for my situation. Help!
Any tips or advice is very much appreciated.
Also almost every day he has told me he loves me and that I'm his Best Friend still.
Artemis welcome to the board you will get some really good advice here. I am going to refrain from giving you advice right now because you are new on the board, but I will answer your question and comment below.
Should I be having sex and sleeping with him?
Absolutely not! This is known as cake eating.
Also almost every day he has told me he loves me and that I'm his Best Friend still.
In these situations you need to look at actions only and not words. Do affairs and talking to other woman (actions) support the words?
Artemis1,
Sorry you're here. We've all been in similar situations and can empathize with you. I'm not the most experienced person on the board, but I'll weigh in...
Okay so I got Divorce Remedy about 2 weeks ago. And I really have needed to share my story amd talk to others who get this. My friends and family just want me to let go and I cant tell them about this as they would never understand.
Only you can decide what is right for you - don't let your friends and family (or us) determine how you live your life. That said...
So first I'll start by saying that my husband and I have been together for 4 and a half years. Married for a year and a half now. My husband has cheated on me all of 3 times now.
He's cheated on you with 3 different women in just 4 and a half years??? That's a MAJOR concern, and will likely continue to be a pattern going forward even if you reconcile. Are you ready to deal with that for the rest of your life?
One was a year into our relationship he talked to a OW for 2 days then told her he was in a relationship and ended it. So it was short but it really shook me as ive been cheated on before alot.
You've been cheated on a lot in previous relationships? Have you considered why that is? Do you respect yourself and set boundaries?
basically yelled and flipped out on me about still being there and told me "its like your just here to spy on me"
Perhaps he was projecting? Cheaters often blame the other person for their bad behavior.
That's the event before he came home and told me he thought we should seperate for awhile. We decided to make a time to decide our rules for it. He said he only wanted 2 weeks, etc. And that the time was for us to get space and was NOT for talking to other people. Well it never happened as the first day of the separation I found out he had made a Tinder and confronted him.
Seems like almost always when people want to separate there's already another person, or they're jonesing for one - more often than not it's not just to "think things through" or "work on themselves" as they like to say.
He wouldnt ever really talk to me about it specfically and just said he was done. Said he wanted a divorce. That was about 3 weeks ago. Since then we have slept in the same bed, cuddled, even have had sex a few times. He invited me to a family dinner and talked about our future to people so I thought maybe the divorce was out of anger and we were okay. He even drank a bit and said dinner and after told me that "I make him so happy and that I was beautiful and we were going to work on my future now" (Little backstory my husband did 6 months for basic and AIT and I had to put my career on hold for helping him through that and until he got the police job he wanted). Anyways so the a few days later we had a relationship talk and he said he wants to start talking to a lawyer. And I was completely shocked, I had thought we were good, I tried bringing up the night he told me those things but he just said "he doesnt remember them" so basically that he doesn't recognize that he said those things. My husband is a pessimist (tells me that himself) so he has been rewriting our marriage alot lately yo make it seems bad. Anyways I of course pleaded with him yo give us longer, to consider separation and he wouldn't even discuss them. For the last week or 2 he has worked constantly so we havent talked much more about anything. I havent even gotten yo talk to him about why he wants a divorce and what problems he feels we have.
You have sex and cuddle with a man who is having affairs and tells you he wants to divorce? Time to cut that out, imo. Sounds like he's using you and enjoying playing the field at the same time. It's extremely difficult - I completely get it - but you need to stand up and start respecting yourself. Stop pleading, start working on yourself and moving away from him.
Also I found out about a week ago he had sex with another woman who he hasnt talked to since she found out he was married. When I confronted him about it I was hurt and mad, he immediately got his keys and wallet and drove to his moms, he wouldnt talk to me at all about. The one questions I asked him was "Are you sure about the divorce because your not in love with me anymore or because you dont think I'll ever forgive you for this? And he said "a bit of both" which I replied "so you dont love me? And he said "I do love you. And drove off Now we were technically separated I guess since he said hes 100% sure about divorce. But during this time we were in the same bed and having sex still. Now obviously I am hurt to my core about all of this but since then I havent brought it up. I decided for myself to forgive him and let I go, at least for noe. Now I know he has a Tinder and has been talking to other people I'm sure.
Unfortunately no surprise he slept with someone else. He's giving you a clear message he does not respect you and is not prioritizing you. He's slept with another woman and is pursuing more right in your face, and asking for divorce. Harsh, but true. Step up and protect yourself.
Tad bit about my husband, I am 27, he is 24. I was his first kiss and everything. He was homeschooled and very sheltered by his very controlling mother. I do not complain about mothers ever and I have always encouraged their relationship. She even watches my 7 year old son.
27 is very young in the scheme of things. You'll be alright. I assume you're 7yo son is not his, based on the length of your relationship? Do you have any children together?
But she is the most judgmental people I know. She has 4 sons. My husband is then only one that even talks to her. As in like years and years. She hates anyone her son's date as she wants them to be all about her. So for our entire relationship she has bad mouthed me, even when she didny know me to him and he has always ignored her. But as we know hearing someone say things loudly over and over for years things can seep in.
I vastly underestimated the extent to which my Ex-W's parental history would play into our marriage. Both her parents were married 3 times. Her mom had an affair on her dad and split up the family when she was a teen. HUGE red flag I overlooked. If his mom is talking down about you to him, that's a big flag.
I truly believe my husband was considering trying for our marriage right before I confronted him about the OW he had sex with, but after that he stayed at his moms and I believe in the state he was in her words resonnated in him now. Since then he has told me he wants a divorce and he wants us to get a lawyer. That's the only discussion we have had on the subject which was about a week ago I'd say.
I don't buy it. He was having affairs and asking for divorce - your confrontation maybe didn't help but wasn't the deciding factor. No one thing you say would change his mind. However, avoid these things in the future. Mistakes happen...you can only control what you do going forward.
Now I have decided I am going to DB to the very end. Its been hard but I have kept my faith. Today it is starting to waiver. Though we have still been in the bed my husband has started to kiss me less and has said "we need to stop sleeping together, it confuses things"
Good! Stand up for yourself! Don't let him use you. If nothing else, he'll respect you more.
he's never seen a good marriage before.
Big red flag, in retrospect. My Ex-W was modeled to cheat and divorce. Even if she said she didn't want to be like that, her past is a MAJOR influence that kicks in. Same for your husband, possibly.
Anyways this is my story thus far, I know its alot and I apologize, I hope some will read this as I really need help, I wanted to give alot of info as to give a rounded story of us.
Don't apologize. It's good you're reaching out for support.
Should I be having sex and sleeping with him? There's not much in the book on this, especially since he's talking to other women. But I'm conflicted, sex gives intimacy and cuddling does to so part of me feels like I should keep doing these things as he allows to have our intimacy still there. But alot of methods say to detach and not pursue etc. So I'm worried that maybe I shouldnt be giving him these things. Just not sure what the best course of action is for my situation. Help!
I wouldn't if I were you. He's probably getting kicks about being able to have sex with multiple woman. Make sure he knows he has to choose between you and the others. But that's just my opinion. This might be a debated point.
Artemis1 - I'm concerned when you say you've been cheated on a lot in the past, and your husband has cheated on you 3 times in 4.5 years. Do you respect yourself? How is your self-esteem? It's very difficult because you're in shock and scared and want something that unfortunately is not entirely in your control, but it's important to stand up and act strong right now so your H respects you, as opposed to weak and scared. Act as if you love life and will be completely fine without him. What you'll hear a lot on here is working on yourself (physically, mentally, spiritually...etc.). The one thing you can control is how you act and how you improve yourself. Work out, go out with friends, take trips. Do not pursue him or beg or plead. Work on improving yourself. Over time that will make you stronger, more confident, and more attractive to your H (and others).
Welcome to the Board! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome Thread for you.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmand Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 08:23 AM.
Me-67, D34,S33
Hi Artemis,
I'll start by saying that my husband and I have been together for 4 and a half years. Married for a year
and a half now. My husband has cheated on me all of 3 times now.. ive been cheated on before alot.
Is this marriage worth saving? He's cheated on you 3x you know about in 4.5yrs. He even lies to the OW. Artemis, most people wouldn't consider someone so dishonest a good partner. You're 27 and don't have kids together.
Why is cheating acceptable to you? He had an EA before you got married. Repeatedly choosing cheaters isn't random chance. It points to something within you to fix. I've dated dozens of people, and no cheaters afaik.
I found out about a week ago he had sex with another woman Should I be having sex and sleeping with him? But I'm conflicted, sex gives intimacy and cuddling does to
My advice is "No". Sex while in limbo is usually okay if: (a) He's not sleeping with others, (b) You can enjoy it as a purely physical act. In your case neither is true. Consider the chance of an STI which would complicate your dating future or even life. Consider he gets to cake eat--guaranteed sex and affection from his Plan B, while he seeks out his Plan A. Consider how it reduces your value in his eyes to be willing to continue offering your committed affection while you know he's out bedding others. Consider how it prevents you from detaching from him which is what you'll want to do to either move on or have a real shot at reconciliation.
Hi Artemis,
I've never been a once a cheater always a cheater gal. It's not my jam. I truly believe most people are redeemable. However in this case, he's a 24 year old, very recently ex military& presently a cop. He has a history of cheating. The likelihood of him never cheating on you again is slim. Very, very, very slim.
You don't need to answer this immediately, but when you can can you sit with these questions for a little while and really think about the answers:
~ Why do you want to keep this marriage together? I know you love him. Let's assume that. So what are the reasons besides you loving him that makes you feel it's important and necessary to save this marriage?
~ Why does this man deserve your love? What is that he is/has/does that can make you say I could forgive him if he asked me to and put in the work to keep this relationship going?
~ What is the common denominator in these cheaters aside from you? What personality traits? Hobbies? Mannerisms? Quirks? Family history?
What is happening right now is a lot. It's scary. It's heart breaking. It feels entirely out of your control. I'm sure you're not sleeping or eating. When you're ready we can talk about some self care so you can breathe again. But right now take what little control you have here and sit with these questions. Read Sandi's rules in Job's post. Keep reading DR. And try to slow yourself down. One thing we like to say around here is time is on your side. Time is on your side your H might be in a hurry to end this but you don't need to race to the finish line. You get to get to your finish line on your timeline.
And in the mean time don't beg, don't plead. Don't let H see you cry or rage. Don't agree to anything. Just slow down and take it one day at a time. And absolutely close that muffin shop girl. If he wants to fire you as his wife, he loses the privileges having a wife offers him, all of them including sex.
Hi Girl,
Thanks for sharing. Sorry you find yourself in this so familiar situation.
My main advise is to make positive changes to YOUR behavior. Start by challenging your current beliefs. You are going to get so much advise, sometimes it will be conflicting. As much as you think this is about H, it is really about you and how you want to make positive changes to your life.
You will have to evaluate all of your options, make a choice, and live with the consequences of that choices, good, bad or otherwise. Then rinse and repeat for the next set of choices.
Study up on setting and enforcing boundaries ASAP.
You have a whole group of people here that can help you move through this difficult process. It was the best worst thing that I have ever experienced. Crazy looking back that I am glad to have gone through it.
You can handle it.
HUGS
Thank. You for this advice I so aporeciate it. I really am trying to work on me right now and see what happens.
Hi Artemis, a good book for you and your situation might be Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson
Hi Artemis, how are you feeling today?
I Will look into this book for sure thank you!
CWarrior, I am feeling better and more confident in all this today. I have faith and i have been praying alot as well for guidance.
Update:
I know so many believe i should just move on from my H but theres so much more in our relationship that can be explained. So much good and other things that have happened that its hard to explain it all. My H told me he isnt sleeping with anyone else and that he is talking to a woman but only as a friend for the time being. We are separated and as the book says I am not going to focus on the OW at all if thats what it is. And yes i do believe my H completely on the subject, when he cheated last time i knew it in my guy, my gut has never once been wrong and my gut is telling me to trust him. As Michele wrote in Divorce Remedy, "Trust you instincts. Dont let anyone else tell you what to do. If your not ready to give up on your marriage, Keep Fighting." So thats what im going to do. I do know my husband and we are still best friends. I officially am not sleeping in bed with him anymore or having sex, since we have yet to discuss why the divorce is happening we have decided to do out to eat or possibly take a hike to discuss it some, hiking has always been our thing. I know discussing the relationship is suppose to not happen, but this is new and at the very least we need to discuss why he feels he wants this right now and to set clear boundaries for the time being since we will be living together still for now. I am going to refrain from any pleading or reasoning with him during the convo and try to keep it mainly about the boundaries being set, i will to the best of my ability make it clear i am open to working on our marriage and leave it at that.
For now I am trying to just be his friend, and think of him that way, last night he told me I am his very best friend and he doesn't want to lose that, and that he loves me very much. Yesterday I was in the town where he works as a cop as I had errands, etc. I had to do. And he came and found me 3 times just to talk, we didn't discuss the relationship at all, just discussed work and all kinds of different topics just like good friends would. I never sought him out, he always sought me out.
Since we are going to talk technically about the relationship some due to setting boundaries and discussing steps, though again I want to make it clear Im going to try to not talk to deeply about the relationship as is suggested in the book. Does anyone have any advice on things to discuss or how to discuss certain topics, anything at all?
CWarrior, I am feeling better and more confident in all this today. I have faith and i have been praying alot as well for guidance.
Update:
I know so many believe i should just move on from my H but theres so much more in our relationship that can be explained. So much good and other things that have happened that its hard to explain it all. My H told me he isnt sleeping with anyone else and that he is talking to a woman but only as a friend for the time being. We are separated and as the book says I am not going to focus on the OW at all if thats what it is. And yes i do believe my H completely on the subject, when he cheated last time i knew it in my guy, my gut has never once been wrong and my gut is telling me to trust him. As Michele wrote in Divorce Remedy, "Trust you instincts. Dont let anyone else tell you what to do. If your not ready to give up on your marriage, Keep Fighting." So thats what im going to do. I do know my husband and we are still best friends. I officially am not sleeping in bed with him anymore or having sex, since we have yet to discuss why the divorce is happening we have decided to do out to eat or possibly take a hike to discuss it some, hiking has always been our thing. I know discussing the relationship is suppose to not happen, but this is new and at the very least we need to discuss why he feels he wants this right now and to set clear boundaries for the time being since we will be living together still for now. I am going to refrain from any pleading or reasoning with him during the convo and try to keep it mainly about the boundaries being set, i will to the best of my ability make it clear i am open to working on our marriage and leave it at that.
For now I am trying to just be his friend, and think of him that way, last night he told me I am his very best friend and he doesn't want to lose that, and that he loves me very much. Yesterday I was in the town where he works as a cop as I had errands, etc. I had to do. And he came and found me 3 times just to talk, we didn't discuss the relationship at all, just discussed work and all kinds of different topics just like good friends would. I never sought him out, he always sought me out.
Since we are going to talk technically about the relationship some due to setting boundaries and discussing steps, though again I want to make it clear Im going to try to not talk to deeply about the relationship as is suggested in the book. Does anyone have any advice on things to discuss or how to discuss certain topics, anything at all?
Here's the deal. My H was having an active affair while living in our home. And telling me every day how much he wanted to leave me and how miserable he was. I stood for my MR. I am the last person who would say this marriage is unsalvagable run for the hills. I'm just telling you what my gut says based on the information. But you want this. And you want to stand so stand. My questions to you weren't posed as saying you need to go. My questions were posed because you truly need to be able to articulate why you want to keep this together 1) so we complete strangers on the internet can understand you and what's going on better 2) because if you can't articulate why you want this so badly other than love or fear there very likely isn't anything in this marriage to save 3) entering IC and/or MC you're going to need to know this, and be able to articulate it.
You keep on keeping on. You stand as long as you want to stand. You from here on out will have to do what's best for you in the timeline that's best for you. However please seriously give some thoughts to my questions.
~ Why do you want to keep this marriage together? What are the reasons besides you loving him that makes you feel it's important and necessary to save this marriage?
~ Why does this man deserve your love? What is that he is/has/does that can make you say I could forgive him if he asked me to and put in the work to keep this relationship going?
If you're going to fight for the MR you need to know the reasons and so do we.
As far as relationship talks, it's advised against because 9 times out of 10 the LBS will not come out emotionally ok on the other side. Yes boundaries need to be set while you are both living in the home. But he's "just friends" with a woman he's chatting with that you have no proof of either way. You don't know her. And my guess is that he barely knows her as well. Unless that woman is his friend from childhood and she's been around your entire relationship and supportive of both of you he has no reason to have her as a friend. He has a lot of reasons to keep you and "friend" waiting in the wings for him though. You give him absolutely everything and he gives you at best tepid friendly interactions that seem to stem out of fear he'll be alone more than actual fear of losing you. So as of right now there are no boundaries. He's allowed to do as he pleases while you stay physically, mentally and emotionally attached to him.
~What's your plan for boundaries given the situation?
~What topics are you planning on covering in this R talk?
I'm not trying to be harsh at all or hurt your feelings. But the fact that you're not at least a little angry or suspicious of H really worries me. I just don't understand why he gets to make selfish decision after selfish decision and you can't do one thing just for you, for your peace of mind, for your emotional well being like telling him he can't "talk" to other women if he plans on sleeping next to you every night. Just with an EA I was ready to smash my H's headlights in. Granted I hit anger way before sadness. He's hurt you multiple times don't you think you deserve to make the rules and run the show here?
Okay so I am going to do my best (also for the record when I said what I said about others wanting me to walk away it was more my friends who are bias in a sense) I honestly hadn't had time to truly consider your questions so let me give this more of a shot.
Reasons for wanting to save my marriage, obviously Loving him is a part of it, Him being my Number 1 best friend is a large part of it too. We have been through alot together and he has supported me through some very difficult things and vice versa. For one I truly believe in my gut that this isn't really what he wants, I believe he is afraid of being in an unhappy marriage for years and years like his mother was, so he feels unhappy right now and being a pessimist he has issues seeing things getting better. Sorry im ranting a bit here. One reason I want to stay together is my 7 year old, no he is not his, but he has been an exceptional father figure to him, he plays with him, teaches him, wants the best for him. They have a good strong bond. We truly understand eachother, we are 2 very different people in alot of ways, we do have a lot in common as well, but our differences have caused us both to think things differently and try new things, and we have both grown so much together due to this. We both believe we are better people because of eachother. There are things ive been doing such as cheeseless tunnels and privacy boundaries things that I have done to push him away in our relationship that I have recently come to realize, he has been very patient, and reassuring and kind to me, and i believe at times i took advantage of that and I am changing these things for me, whether we stay together or not.
My H is a good person, he has problems I wont pretend he doesn't. But he has supported me, and has had a rougher family like then most and was taught toxic behaviors from his parents which I have seen him learn and grow away from tremendously over the years we have been together. It's hard to truly explain these things but we have truly helped each other to grow for the better and I believe we can still do this. I believe we can come out of this hard time and be stronger for it. And Honestly I already have forgiven him, completely, mostly for myself, but also because I understand so many dynamics of things that have caused him to be in the "grass is greener" mentality.
And as for the OW situation, I believe him because I am trusting my gut, and I can't really describe it more then that, I just know it to be true, also in DR when Michele discusses Infidelity and when the spouse wont give up OW and wants divorce, its said to pretty much forget the OW because it wont help my marriage. I have read stories of women who's husband left them for OW and they DB'D and ended up saving their marriage, I have faith because of these stories and because of the years of experience and the faith I have in my relationship. I am not saying part of me hasn't been angry at my H or that it hasn't been incredibly painful. But I don't believe infidelity has to be the death of my marriage, I believe we can get through this and have a very happy Marriage, and sometimes there aren't words to explain why that is, its simply my gut and my faith.
As of now I have already stopped sleeping in bed with him and having sex with him. Also to be noted, my husband had tried to stop us from sleeping together but because of my fear or losing him and wanting to feel close I did push my way into us still sleeping together and sex originally so he is not as manipulating as some might think. But after reading more and taking time to truly think of things I know now what i was doing was wrong and I am backing off. I told him that unless he stops talking to other women and decides to work on our marriage I will no longer be sleeping in bed with him or having sex, I saw the hurt in his eyes and he said he understands. So I am starting to set boundaries.
I am currently reading up on boundaries especially for my specific situation. I know I have to back off and not give certain things to him. In DR it also says I should be positive whenever I am around my H. One story in the book says a W became such good Friends with her husband that he had ever talked to her about the OW and eventually they got back together and their marriage has been great ever since. So this is currently my focus, is being his friend. I understand your confusion in my decision, my H wants a divorce so I really don't have much of a say in any of this right now. So like Michele says many different times, in many ways, if you want to save your marriage, you have to get over the "its not fair I have to do all the work right now" and your pride. So that is what I am doing, my H is depressed and scared and yes he's being selfish right now, but our Marriage is bigger then this moment, thats what I believe.
As for the boundaries and R talk, I don't know much. Honestly part of me just wants to know why he even wants the D as we were happy a month ago, I feel most people on here at least got some reason from their Spouse in the beginning, I don't fully know what all the issues are, and I'd like to know to work on them. But if it would be better for me to not ask about why he wants the divorce, then tell me that. I honestly don't know if i should just not know or ask right now, thus why I am writing on here to ask for advice. As I have said I have already set boundaries with the intamcy and sleeping in the same bed, we are currently sleeping in the same house and I am unsure what other boundaries need to be discussed again that is why I am asking for adice.
I personally don't believe infidelity EA or PA means the death of a marriage but your H is very young. You're young too but you're a mom and with that comes some maturity. My concern isn't the grass is greener mentality or the FOO. Every LBS here has had to fight those battles. My concern is that it's almost a knee jerk reaction to cheat when he's unhappy. A marriage can't survive that. You can't live like that long term. I trust you know what you want. And that there is good here. And enough good to want to try to make it work. But strongly suggest reading some threads from beginning to end to see what this process of standing looks like. Especially with a person who struggles so deeply with fidelity.
I also need you to understand that while you most certainly could've handle things better in your relationship. That you've brought in bad habits and trauma responses. All of the things we need to own. His repeated infidelity means you are allowed to have enormous trust issues. And that he isn't entitled to privacy. The normal rules of relationships don't apply to serial cheaters. Own what's yours. Don't carry your H's baggage. That's his to handle.
This is the link to my original thread. You may want to read through it.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=62699&Number=2878654#Post2878654
Hi Artemis,
I'm so sorry you find yourself here, I can only imagine how painful your journey has been.
One thing that I wanted to point out to you, when you read about infidelity in DR, I think Michelle is talking more about people who have had one affair and are torn between an affair partner and their spouse.
Your husband is a serial cheater, and it sounds like he likes to have sex with any woman who will have it with him. I don't think he falls into the category that Michelle mentions in her book.
Yes, marriages can survive infidelity. But when you are dealing with someone who displays characteristics such as your husband, I think it's important to be honest with yourself.
I completely understand you want to save this, and that's fine. But at some point, you have to start valuing and respecting yourself.
And for the record, this woman he's communicating with, they're not just friends, this is you in denial. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well you know the rest.
Hang in there.
I am posting this as I need advice if you don't believe in DB'ing when someone is being unfaitful as we are separated now then I am asking that you please don't comment and tell me to leave, this is my choice and I am asking for support and not Negativity PLEASE.
My H is currently talking to other women, when our separation first started he slept with one woman, at first he hid it from me but then once it was out in the open he told me he was sorry and I had been right about sex with a random person compared to someone you love is completely different. (My husband has only ever been with me sexually until this) My H told me he wants a divorce after I found out about the other woman. I can tell how guilty he feels for having slept with someone else so he has been pushing me away emotionally for the most part since i found out about 2 week ago. I got Divorce Remedy about a month ago when my husband had first mentioned divorce and I am trying to apply all the advice and techniques. When I first discussed the adultery with my husband I was upset, and yelling, and did not at all handle the situation well, basically I screamed at him and woke him up in the middle of the night. He had to be up in like 4 hours and doesnt handle anything well when hes tired so he basically got in his car that night and went to stay at his moms. We didn't discuss it almost at all that night. I did however ask him if the reason he was sure about divorce (which he had said to me he wanted, period, after I screamed at him) was because he wasn't in love with me anymore or because he doesnt believe I could ever forgive him for sleeping with another woman? He told me "a little of both" in which i replied "So you don't love me anymore?" and he said "of course i love you" and got in his car and left.
Right now I am trying to be my H Friend, he has told me I'm his best friend constantly, almost every day throughout this whole process. So I am trying to think of him only as my best friend, so i can be there for him, and be a positive safe place for him, hoping he will remember why we got married and fell in love in the first place. Some days he's cold and distant, other days he gets ahold of me constantly just to talk.
Example, Yesterday I was running errands and had to waste time in the town my Husband is a police officer in, he knew i was in town and found me over the course of about 3 hours, 3 different times, and stopped and talked to me for at least 30 minutes each time, we didn't discuss our relationship or marriage at all. We just talked about our days and all kinds of things just at Friends would, he called me on his way home from work (which he hasn't been doing for the last 2-3 weeks) and asked if I'd be home as he was going to pick us up Pizza if i was okay with that. We watched tv together at home that evening. Also side note, during this time we have still been in the same bed every night and have even been having sex, I'm a very sexual being and its been a hard process to stop. As of last night in my decision to be his friend I told him that as long as he is talking to other women and 100% sure about divorce (as he's said) I can't be sleeping next to him and having sex with him. I told him I want to work on our marriage but as long as he doesn't and is talking to other women He cant have it all. He was quiet for a minute, i could see the sadness and the hurt in his eyes he then said "I understand, So you know I am not having sex with anyone else, I am talking to other women but only as friends" And yes i 100% believe him, my gut has always been right when it comes to him on lies etc. so I am trusting it now. I told him we need to make time and have a discussion about boundaries and why he wants a divorce. (Now i know we are suppose to avoid discussing the relationship and I am going to try to not go too deep into things BUT since the divorce was mentioned my husband has been working nonstop and we have never discussed why he wants it or boundaries at ALL so i believe we need to at least discuss it once).
Now if anyone has any advice on what should be brought up during this conversation or perhaps ways I should discuss certain topics, I would very much appreciate it Greatly.
Let me ask you, do you really want to be his best friend? Are you OK with being his best friend while he goes around and cheats? And is that how best friends treat best friends?
Artemis, You have 3 different threads going. First you gotta keep it on one thread so all the info is in one place so we can actually get a handle on what is going on here and give you decent advice. Second the moderators are going to force the threads into1 or delete 2 and only leave you with 1 which will not have the details you've put on here and in the infidelity forum. Also no one on here is saying leave now. They are asking you why you're staying, why are you thinking and feeling things, why do you want to have a relationship talk, why do you want to heal this relationship, why do you want to go forward. We can't tell you what to talk about if we don't know fully what is going on and what and why you're thinking.
If he's out of the house and you aren't sleeping with him I'm not sure what boundaries there are to discuss. If he wants to work on the marriage what is his plan to do that?
I know you want to say that you trust he's talking to women as a friend. Please understand this isn't negativity this is something we've seen 1000 times here. Those women aren't his friends. He cheated on you. He acknowledged cheating on you his job is to make you feel comfortable not himself. If he truly wanted to work on the MR he wouldn't have female friends running around.
Also if he fired you as his wife he's not entitled to you as his best friend. Cheating and asking for a divorce is firing you as his wife. So if you aren't his wife, so much so he can just chat with other ladies when ever then he doesn't get the privileges of you being his best friend either. That's a wife's job.
Honestly if you need something to talk about in this conversation, you should probably ask for some serious clarification about what it is exactly that he wants to do going forward. If he says D then what's his plan and timeline on that. Don't interject. Don't cry. Just nod and listen and pay very careful attention to what he tells you. If he says work on the MR ask him what that means to him and what his plan is to get you guys back on track. Don't interject and don't gush. Just listen. This conversation isn't the why conversation. This is a you need to know exactly where you stand conversation. The why's can come later.
I think if you know where you stand and if we get more clarity on where you stand then we can help you better. Until then you have to stay in one place and dump all the info in one space.
Art,
People here are not going to tell you what you want to hear, they are going to tell what's best for you. You might take it as being negative, but I want you to step back and ask yourself, is it negative or hard to hear. Mostly everyone providing comments on your thread has had their world devastated by a Spouse.
You have only one concern and that's getting your husband to stay with you. No matter the cost. That's not a healthy place to be for you are your child.
You have to respect yourself before your husband, who's asking to be your friend will respect you, y'all relationship or a Marriage.
There's a poster here, who didn't like what we was telling him. He barely took our advice and his WW didn't respect him. He didn't have respect for himself, he was here for a while and his situation only got worst over time.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2892115#Post2892115There were two other posters, I can't think of their names at the moment. One of them, his wife was having an A with his brother-in-law, and he thought we were being mean, and his situation got worst over time.
And one other one, he was a police officer and his W was a teacher and she wanted to move to another state with his kids to be with her AP, he had a hard time taking the advice here as well.
The common theme in their threads were, not having respect for themselves and taking the advice on the board as an attack and not as help.
Take care of yourself
Onward and Forward
It's not so much that I'd be okay with him cheating, we are separated, just because I don't wan to be doesnt make it any less true. I am wanting to save my marriage and My husband and I fell in Love being as we got eachother and because we have always been friends, I am trying to remind him of the ease and joy in which we have together.
Here is a Post from years ago on this site, I've copied and pasted it...
The following is the very original Lighthouse post that come from another website.
I was looking around and finally found it and dug it up.
It was originally posted by a user named ark^^
Thanks for this!
Your spouse is in huge conflict....
the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...
the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...
It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush
their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...
their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth
all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...
yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....
they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...
he or she is lost to themselves...
and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...
You become the lighthouse..you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...
see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...
Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....
they are untrustable right now...
but you know that...so they can't hurt you right now...they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...
you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....
set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....
Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....
your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...and eventually they will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...
be the lighthouse....
Also in DR Michele talks about how being postive around your S and being the person that they want you to be and fell in love with is what could make them realize the Grass isn't Greener on the otherside. I was trying to find the story in the book where Michele talks about the lady that was her Husbands best friend when they were separated and talking divorce while he was having his affair with the OW and how they came back together because of her reminding him of the friendship and love they have with eachother. So to answer your question, Yes I do want to be his best friend right now. I am going to be pleasant to him and remind him of why we got married in the first place.
Well for the record I do respect myself fully, and my spouse respects me to. He believes he wants a divorce due to many reasons. And no i never said anyone attacked me, i simply stated that I am asking for advice to MY questions. And instead of answering some, I am getting alot of just leave him. I'm honestly quite shocked by it as after reading the book with such the clear understanding that you have to follow your gut and do what you believe is best to save your marriage, people are still so unwilling to give me the advice for which I am asking. Im simply stating that no one knows any other persons marriage but them, I am not being blinded by love or any of these things, my husband wants a divorce, he is seeing other people during this time, but I still believe my marriage is worth saving and I am going to fight for my marriage and I am wanting some advice on how to handle some boundaries. I can't and will not apologize for asking for advice for the questions I am asking or for wanting to find some support. I appreciate the advice nonetheless as I'm sure everyone on here only wants to help
I'm sorry if my post upset you on your other thread, Artemis.
It's important that you are honest with yourself or your situation will never change.
You want the best shot at getting your H back (and faithful)? Bare with me, I'm going to be blunt.
You stop putting up with his bullsh!t and start respecting yourself. People can't love people they don't respect, and your H does not respect you. There are zero consequences to his behavior. Why would he stop talking to and having sex with other women? There's no reason to.
Personally, if I wanted someone who is like your H to back in my life and committed (and faithful) to me, this is what I would do.
1. Kick him out of the house. I would not tolerate serial cheating, flirting, "just talking to other people" again. ZERO tolerance. This will be stage one in gaining his respect.
2. I would go no contact with him. No phone calls, texts, emails, nothing. This shows him you respect and value yourself and that you will not tolerate sh!tty behavior from anyone. This also helps solidify his respect for you and gets him wondering about you.
3. Start building myself up. Therapy, gym, healthy diet, friends and family, God. New job opportunities, better relationship with your child. This will prove to yourself that you are worthy of respect and love. It might also start to make him think of you in a more attractive way.
4. If my ex started poking around at this point, I would make them work for me. They would need to be in therapy, consistently to work on their issues. They would need to prove to me they were sincere over time, with no blips or relapses with other people.
Being his "friend" will not work, Artemis. Being a friend enables his behavior and provides him with a very solid Plan B. It will also make him drag things out so he has time to sleep with as many women as possible. Be his friend and watch this drag out for months if not years.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I felt it was important to not blow smoke up your a$$.
How is your spouse showing respect you right now? Are his actions respectful? Has he been respectful by having multiple affairs ?
And yes, to everything Thornton said.
Take care
I still believe my marriage is worth saving.. I am asking for advice to MY questions.. Well for the record I do respect myself fully, and my spouse respects me to. he has told me I'm his best friend constantly, almost every day throughout this whole process. So I am trying to think of him only as my best friend.
Respect - due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.
Hi Artemis,
You asked, "Should we have sex?" We answered that but also challenged "We're best friends" and "He respects me" because his behavior doesn't indicate those. Many of us have reconciled.. or moved on in a healthy way. It's helpful to face what you're dealing with? Especially, if you want to reconcile. (:
I apologize for confusing things Wayfarer, I am honestly not use to forums, and threads so i wasn't sure if everyone looked everywhere and I was trying to make sure many people saw my threads as to get the most advice possible. I will remember the advice in the future so thank you. And we are separated, I have never meant to give the impression that my H wont be with someone else, Just because he is not in an affair with one person thats lasted months like many of the stories within the books etc doesnt mean its not like the situation. I am very much aware of what can happen. But just as the people who decided they wanted to save their marriage despite their partner having an affair, I am doing the same here. As for being a friend to him and being positive with him I am simply taking the advice that was given to me within these books that are the backbone to this site.
Also he is not out of the house, we live in the same house still, simply are sleeping in different rooms. And thats why im asking for advice on boundaries, i'm not sure if I should make clear that he is not to ever bring anyone home even if I'm not home (I dont believe he would ever do that in a million years to be honest) but i'm just not sure if its something i should bring up anyways. We both take turns with dropping our son off at babysitters etc. Not sure if one of us isn't going to come home at night if I should ask that we let the other know or if this is pushing the limits and pressuring him too much. Just trying to get advice on what others have done in this situation.
Also my H has never Said anything about working on the MR. He says he wants a divorce, period. Which many of the stories in the books that has been what was said which is why I am keeping in mind the rule to "not believe any of what you hear and only 50% of what you see" My husband does things in which makes it seem as if he doesnt truly want a D. The small victories as they are called.
Also If me and my H get a divorce, I will be his friend. Our friendship means too much to both of us to give it up for any reason, that is one thing we have always been clear on. I will not give up our friendship and more then i would give up on a friend who I have gotten into a fight with etc.
Okay so I'm trying to keep up here. First off, I can't kick him out, it's his dads house, his dad is a truck driver and his home 2 days a month so we live there. I don't have anywhere else to go and my H won't kick me out like that, he also has already offered to give me his car and he keep making the payments on it as well. He has another car he pays on.
Also I am working on myself, so thank you for advice, I have been contacting him less, not being as easy to get ahold of, spending more time with friends, and trying to remember hobbies I enjoy and doing them. Contact can't fully be given up as for our son. We both take him and pick him up babysitter wise, etc. Also my husband says he is 100% of divorce as most in this situation have said, so although I am pulling away from him to focus on me to cause him to miss me, im not sure if disappearing completely helps as i feel like the divorce will just happen quicker and for sure.
Although I respect your oppinion about being friends thing not working, or isn't right. I respectfully disagree, Even Michele talks of a woman who did just that, was a safe place and a friend to her husband who she was going through the D process with and having an affair that they ever talked about the OW as friends would and they ended up back together as she has reminded him of the friendship they had etc. I also have had a family member who went through just about the same thing as the story i keep mentioning and her husband and her have been together happily ever since for 45 years, it was within the first 5 years of marriage it happened to her.
Everybody's situation is different, so not everything works for everyone, what i Know is while putting the techniques into place and monitoring results as suggest in DR. Ive learned that when I am his friend and not talking of the relationship etc. And i'm not getting ahold of him and being friendly, he reaches out to me and i respond as his friend, he contacts me more, he does kind gestures for me more, he acts more loving towards me, this is what has been working for my situation so far. He has respected me and just about everyway possible in every situation since this stuff came out. Except for when he was saying he wanted a divorce and still having sex with me, granted I will say he tried to stop it a few times, but frankly I am the more sexual partner in the relationship and I was quite aggressive, i'm saying this as you can have all the facts.
I'm not sure if I should make clear that he is not to ever bring anyone home even if I'm not home (I dont believe he would ever do that in a million years to be honest) but i'm just not sure if its something i should bring up anyways.
Hi Artemis,
That doesn't sound like a boundary. That sounds like an attempt to control him. There's a thread here on how to set boundaries. "If X happens, I'll do Y." Since they control you, they rarely need communicating.
So, what happens if he crosses your boundary?
Although I respect your oppinion about being friends thing not working, or isn't right. I respectfully disagree, Even Michele talks of a woman who did just that, was a safe place and a friend to her husband who she was going through the D process with and having an affair that they ever talked about the OW as friends would and they ended up back together as she has reminded him of the friendship they had etc. I also have had a family member who went through just about the same thing as the story i keep mentioning and her husband and her have been together happily ever since for 45 years, it was within the first 5 years of marriage it happened to her.
I think you are comparing apples and oranges, Artemis.
Its one thing for a partner to have an affair. It's another thing to be a serial cheater, which usually indicates a mental health disorder (Narcissism).
I've been here since 2013 and was able to get my ex back 3 times before she split again, and this is what I know to be true.
1. Almost everyone here does not take the advice given to them when they first arrive.
2. Almost everyone here regrets not taking the advice given to them when they first arrived.
Artemis, to help you with boundaries, here's the pinned thread on the topic--
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096Wonka's first two posts explain the concept beautifully.
If he crosses a boundary it will have to depend on what the boundary specifically is... I am still currently working on figuring out what the boundaries that need to be set are (without being controlling) and what the consequences may be.
And thank you Very much CWarrior that link is Very helpful. And I appreciate it very much.
Frankly we disagree on the "Serial" cheating. So perhaps that is why our opinions differ.
Frankly we disagree on the "Serial" cheating. So perhaps that is why our opinions differ.
Fair enough. I wish nothing but the best for you, best wishes.
I’m curious. What is it you are expecting out of these boards and the people who claim tribute ?
Artemis,
I gave you the link to my thread. I really, really think you should go read it. I was raising my H's daughter while he was having an active affair in our home. He was also my best friend prior to the A. He believed I was his best friend. He wanted to be friends after he left me for another woman. I wasn't wiling to give him that. I asked him to tell me where he was going so I could come up with a suitable lie for our children while we live in an IHS. He agreed to this and then never followed through. Eventually I gave up and said IDK until I couldn't any more and then would say where do you think he is. People in this state of mind could give 2 sh!ts about your boundaries or requests. They don't care. You can keep saying all you want about how he loves you and he's your best friend. But if he cared about your boundaries He wouldn't have had multiple EAs and have one currently while stringing you along. You can live in denial all you want. He doesn't respect you or he's never respected your relationship. It's one or the other. Neither of those things means you can't stand for your marriage. Nor does it mean there's nothing in the marriage worth saving. But it is the reality of the situation whether you want to face it or not.
I'm not hung up on respect. A lot of people here are hung up on respect. Respect is completely subjective and if all of us demanded the utmost respect from our partners at all times and they of us literally no one would be in a relationship. So if you want to stand here with or without respect from your H it makes no difference in my opinion. Where the difference lies is self respect. Listen, this guy I'm sure has some admirable qualities. And I'm sure for your son you would like what ever is about to happen to be as amiable as possible. I respect that too. But we are asking you questions and saying things, and you just keep saying the same thing over again as if it's a justification for letting him walk all over you.
So he wants the D and you want to save the marriage. What's your plan here? Being his friend while he leaves you? Are you going to help him pack his bags to live with another woman?
The biggest mistake I made when I first read DR is that as I was reading it I thought my MR was on the most hopeful end of savable. That we just needed to work on our MR a little bit. That I needed to change some habits and if he could agree to try in our MR and maybe get counseling everything would be ok. I was completely delusional. I was deeply in denial. He was already only steps away from his EA becoming a PA. Look I managed to recon. So once again I'm not telling you this is a hopeless situation but you really need to get on board with reality. Your H is a serial cheater. He has done this more than once with more than one woman correct? If that's true whether is be EA or PA it was an affair and if it happened more than twice it's serial. If your H wants a D you cannot nice him back. The kinder you are to him, the friendly you are to him the more he thinks his behavior is acceptable to you and he will keep stringing you along endless. Weeks, months, years, decades if you allow it. Why would he give you up when you allow him to have you as his best friend and what ever else he wants if he pushes hard enough or makes you feel loved enough AND he can still have other women as he pleases? I'm not saying don't be kind or considerate to the man you married, the man you're co-parenting with, your room mate. You should be. But you aren't his wife any more. He fired you as his wife. He does not want you as his wife any more and while you don't need to give up on him, you need to accept he's given up on you and your marriage.
I am probably one of the most pro-marriage people on this board and I'm telling you if you want to stand we're here for you but you have to start accepting what is actually happening in your life. You can't wave a wand and things will go back to the way the were when you thought you were happy. Nothing will be the same. Nothing was the same after the first 2 times he cheated. You just thought it was. If you pursue this path and you're successful you aren't returning to the MR you had. That marriage is dead. Honestly to your husband it was probably dead long before you even noticed. If you were to stick this out and things turned around you have to completely start over with your H. You would have to start an entirely new marriage one that carries the scars of his dalliances. Both of you have to carry that. You need to accept that if you're successful here the success hinges on your acceptance of a lot of things that you're not accepting right now.
Starting with your H is already out the door. And he will drag you along for the ride as long as you allow. He is going to hurt you more than you hurt now. He is going to say and do worse things than already have been said and done. And the entire time he will expect you to be waiting there for him to choose when to bestow some kindness on you like a kicked dog. It's the nature of these situation. I won't ever tell you that you should give up if you don't want to give up. But you need to accept sooner than later exactly what you're situation is and what you are going to have to put up with if you choose this road. It's not pretty. It's not fun. And it's not easy. There is no quick fix here. There's no magic bullet. There's no magic words. There's no grand gesture that will fix all this. It's a long and arduous process and if strangers on the internet are interpreting your situation the exact same way people in your real life are there's a good chance we're right and you are in deep denial about what's going on here.
Look no body wants to feel like a fool. We've all had to get through that. How deeply we've lied to ourselves to convince ourselves things were fine. We're fine. Everything will be fine. This is just a bump in the road. No one wants to feel heartbroken or blindsided. But every single one of us felt that way. So you can dig your heels in here and say we're being mean and not helpful or you can help us understand your situation better. You have to give us more information to work with, and you need to start accepting that it is possible that everyone around you can see things in your relationship that you can't. Love gives us blinders. It's a thing. There's no shame in it. You also need to not be having R conversations for the sake of having an R conversation. We're not going to tell you what to bring up because we know so little about what's happening there's nothing of use for us to say. And there's no conversation to have. H wants a D ok fine. He should feel free to start that process. It needn't involve you. He can have you served and then you can work on there. If not it's just a declaration. It's just words. But that also doesn't mean he's all in the marriage either like you are and you need to accept and understand that. He may tell you your his best friend and he doesn't want to lose you but what that means to him and what that means to you are two very, very different things.
Most people who post lurk for weeks or months in a couple of cases years before they start posting. They understand the general motion of these things. They understand how the boards work. They kind of get used to the personalities. They get used to the short hand lingo. You kind of jumped in head first. Read more. Please read more. Stop actively trying to talk or think your H back into the MR for like 5 minutes and just read through what some people have gone through. Things they had to do or learn. No your situation isn't exactly the same as any one else's. But there's common themes, actions, reactions. They mean something. Every newbie thinks their situation is completely unique and no one has ever had anything like this happen before ever in the way it is happening and it's simply not true. While you are unique people and your marriage isn't identical to any one else's what is happening in your marriage isn't unique. So right now in the beginning isn't the time to be digging in about how different you are as a couple. That comes much later. For now just read and learn. Slow down. Try to understand yourself, your situation, and the place you came to for help.
Art,
You are going to have to slow down, you are posting all over the place. I get it, We get it. You are trying to solve this. You are looking for the advice that will solve this and save your M.
The advice is right in front of you in the advice given by the posters on your thread. Slow yourself down and read and interpret what's being provided to you. You world is spinning, we are trying to get you to slow it down, take the focus off of trying to save the Marriage and focus on yourself. You can't control your Husband. All the control is with you controlling yourself.
If you want a chance to save your Marriage, than you have to start figuring out what you are willing to accept and not accept. You must come up with clear boundaries and consequences, and once you decide on your boundaries, you must adhere to them.
Nothing we are telling will be easy. You won't ever say the right words, or give him enough sex, or be friendly enough for him right now.
The best way/giving yourself the best change to save your marriage, won't be you focusing on the marriage, your husband or your relationship with your husband, it will be you focusing on you.
Also please, read up on the lingo and all the stuff Sandi and the other Vets have provided. I printed off most of that stuff and read it daily to reenforce my actions.
Hi Artemis, I think the "friend" thing when it comes to a wayward is often misunderstood or misinterpreted from Michele's books. I don't think Michele or anyone here would ever recommend that you be the "best friend" of a cheating spouse. Being the lighthouse, taking the high road, setting an example for your children, those are all things you should absolutely do. But those are not the same thing as being your wayward spouse's best friend, or even being a friend at all.
When I went to Retrouvaille, one of the coach couples were an example of what I believe Michele is espousing in her books. The husband went wayward, it was completely out of character with who he had been before in the previous 10 years of marriage. He started staying out late or even all night. He partied, he had affairs with multiple women. He owned a business that started falling apart. He drank heavily, he dabbled in drugs. He begged his wife to leave him and kick him out of the house. They had 3 kids, throughout the ordeal she was an amazing mother to the children. She refused to kick him out or leave him, she told him that was his decision to make but that she was not going to abandon the marriage no matter what. And she was not going to make that decision for him, he would have to do it himself if that's what he chose. She took care of the home, she took care of the children, she never complained about her H, she never said one word about his activities to others or disparaged him in any way.
But she was NOT his best friend. When he would come home smelling of booze and women she did not welcome him into the master bedroom. She showed him love without validating his poor behavior. She made it clear the door was always open to reconciliation, but she also made it clear his behavior was going to have to change before that could happen.
Eventually he hit bottom and begged her to forgive him and take him back. And she did, but not until he had done a lot of hard work on himself and on the M. The husband was the one that told the story through tears, it had been 15 years before that it all transpired and he still felt terrible about it. He said he didn't know who or what he had become, and even at his worst he couldn't help but admire and respect his wife for her ability to hold it together and conduct herself with dignity and respect even while he was trying to drag her down to his level. That was what eventually brought him back.
I think that's the real message of DBing. Conduct yourself with dignity and respect but don't be a doormat. Your H has to go on this journey and all you can do is step back and give him the time and space he needs for that journey. It may bring him back or it may take him somewhere else, that's outside of your control. But if you DB properly then you will be prepared no matter the outcome.
FYI, AnotherStander is a veteran with incredible advice who rarely posts anymore. You have a ton of people here supporting you. I hope your today feels a little less crazy than your yesterday. ((Hugs))
I don't believe infidelity has to be the death of my marriage, I believe we can get through this and have a very happy Marriage, and sometimes there aren't words to explain why that is, its simply my gut and my faith....my H is depressed and scared and yes he's being selfish right now, but our Marriage is bigger then this moment, thats what I believe.
Hold on to those beliefs. Others have been through similar or worse and those beliefs were the foundation.
As for the boundaries and R talk, I don't know much. Honestly part of me just wants to know why he even wants the D
DBing says do not INITIATE the R talks. R talks are fine if he initiates. Your only job during these talks is to listen and validate. No judging. It is critical that you do not express your feelings or argue.
It is perfectly fine to deflect his questions during this time.
"I am not sure"
"I need time to think about that"
"I need more time to process what you have said"
"I will let you know when I have decided"
I will no longer be sleeping in bed with him
I am a firm believer that the LBS should stay in the master bedroom and sleep in the master bed. This is part of standing for your marriage.
Sex is off the table right now, that is your boundary to protect yourself, but non-controlling behavior from you is also important.
Example:
"H,I would prefer if you slept in the master bed also, but I understand if you choose to sleep somewhere else"
Thank you for your advice and feedback. I cant tell you how comforting it is to me right now to get support and advice. As for the R talk my H has initaited it. He wants to have a talk and asked me to go to our anniversary resteraunt (as I call it) tonight. Now I'm all for just listening and validating, as for tonight I honestly am not sure what hes going to say, I feel it could go either way. My main concern is if he says he wants to talk to a lawyer together, do I just agree to it or is that a time when I need to express my feelings on it some?
Also I'm a little confused with your second reply. Are you saying you believe I should stay sleeping in bed with my H, even knowing he is at the very least talking to other women? (I dont believe he is sleeping with anyone right now and I am firm in that) he has expressed extreme guilt and being sorry over having physically cheated even if we were separated at the time.
As far as him interacting with other women, he has intentions. Every example I have seen, the wayward spouse minimizes the state of the interactions by at least one level:
I do not know that woman (I do know that woman but I am not going to tell you that)
I think she works in my building. ( She does work in his building and he knows many more details about her)
We stayed late and worked (Other things besides work occurred)
We are just friends (They are more than just friends. There is sexual tension and attraction)
We just kissed. (They had sex)
We only had sex once. (They had crazy sex many times).
You get the idea. Anyway, best response to any of this nonsense is to call him out on it:
W:"Stop, I am not a fool. we both know that is not true. When you are ready to tell me the truth, I will listen." Then walk away.
He wants to have a talk and asked me to go to our anniversary restaurant (as I call it) tonight.
My advise: Be as smoking hot as possible. Show him what he will lose. New dress, nice perfume etc.
Now I'm all for just listening and validating
Yes.
Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984, as for tonight I honestly am not sure what hes going to say, I feel it could go either way. My main concern is if he says he wants to talk to a lawyer together
Be prepared for the worst. Then everything is easy to deal with. Then hope for the best. Go with the attitude that this is going to be great evening.
do I just agree to it or is that a time when I need to express my feelings on it some?
deflect and defer.
Are you saying you believe I should stay sleeping in bed with my H, even knowing he is at the very least talking to other women?
YES.
If you find out he is involved with another woman, then you can set a different boundary.
Now I'm all for just listening and validating,
Hi Artemis, if you're not used to active listening and validating consider reviewing the Validation Cheat Sheet:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566"Wow, you feel angry when I eat skittles because you believe I'm telling you you need to eat more." By actively listening, by validating their feelings, you are NOT agreeing. You are getting out of the harmful defensive, controlling, or waiting to plead our case mindsets. Walk away if turns abusive.
as for tonight I honestly am not sure what hes going to say, I feel it could go either way.
Don't put so much stock in his words. Remember, it's actions that matter? (:
My main concern is if he says he wants to talk to a lawyer together, do I just agree..
You said you don't want a divorce. "No, I'm not going to do that." If you might want one, "I need time to think about it." If he asks how long, "I'll let you know." Don't be bullied by high-pressure sales tactics, e.g., "We can do it this easy way (my lawyer) or the hard way (separate lawyers)." If he makes a truly generous offer, he won't be afraid of you spending 2-4 hours analyzing it with your own attorney.
I am actually wearing the dress I wore on our very first date, hes always told me how much he loved it, I'm even getting my makeup done professionally beforehand.
I'm trying to be prepared for if its bad but definitely going into it "as if" it'll be great
Validating I'm good at I work in mental health so that and listening I got down, and ive read the posts on it so thank you for that, and thank you for the advice on sleeping in the same bed.
Also woman he was going to hangout with as a friend I actually know and when he told her he wasnt interested in anything but a friend, nothing more, she cancelled so he deleted her number (he showed me the texts, on his own, I didnt ask or anything)
Thanks for the validation stuff, I have definitely looked into it and his actions are saying stuff way different then his words have been. In a positve way so far for the most part so thats what I'm trying to pay attention to.
And okay I will defer if that's what he says tonight, to the best of my ability. I'm trying to get in the right headspace for tonight. Trying not to be too anxious
Thank you
Read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2820750#Post2820750You may also be interested in reading all the advise that was given to Living and take any words of wisdom and apply it to your sitch.
Hi Artemis,
I just want to reinforce what you're hearing from others, You have amazing advice on this thread. Read it over and over until it sinks in. Especially Wayfarer and AnotherStander.
I had a very hard time with boundaries too. People here pushed me on it a ton and I found it very difficult as well until I sloooooowly started to figure it out. (For me, the line between drawing a boundary to protect myself and stating a condition that was actually trying to control my H's behavior was a difficult one for me to parse.)
Accepting the truth of your situation is also incredibly hard, but so necessary. You won't get anywhere until you do. It is possible to both hold the truths of the value you have for your M, the love for your H, and your hope for the future ALONGSIDE the truth of-- that M is dead. You H wants a D. That's okay. It svcks and is horribly painful, but it is the truth and it is okay. You'll be okay. You don't need to let go of your own values, your hope, the love in your heart. You have to accept, though, that he doesn't want that right now, and nothing that you say or do will force him back towards you. The more you do along those lines, the further you'll push him away. You have to drop the rope and focus on yourself in order for there to be a chance of him coming back.
I agree with WF that you need to read more. DEFINITELY read her thread-- it is gold. Read up on the pursuer-distancer dynamic. Read up on boundaries. Get out and GAL-- that is one thing that will probably really help you to stop spinning and take the focus off of your H for awhile and get it back on you.
Regarding boundaries, one other thing I'll share with you from my own sitch was that I was adamant that if we Ded we would NOT BE FRIENDS. A friend doesn't lie to you, cheat on you, betray you, and leave your family. To me there is an enormous difference between a fight between friends and a cheating, lying H that wants out. If he goes-- don't let the door hit you on the way out. I said I'd be a cordial co-parent but we would never be friends again. Which was hard because like you I considered my H to be my best friend. (This is all still hurtful for me, btw, so know that even if you do recon you have to get through all these feelings and facts that the person who was supposed to be your rock stabbed you in the back.) But I say this because I know it had a major impact on my H. I believe to this day that if I'd said sure, of course we'll still be friends, I love you no matter what, he would have left. Him leaving was my bright line that I never ever wavered on, even as some of the other things I had always thought would be deal breakers turned out differently. You have to take a good hard look at yourself, your own values, and figure out where your boundaries are. They will be different for every person. Everyone here posting has a different line that cannot be crossed. What is that for you?
Finally, and this is a note from a post on your other thread... I strongly, strongly recommend NOT wearing the same dress you wore on your first date. You will show him from the second he sees you that you are trying really hard (maybe too hard) and that he doesn't need to do anything to keep you. Wear something else that you love-- I'm sure you have other outfits that are hot without having all that baggage tied to them. Or buy something new. Just don't tell him with your clothing that you are his for the taking. Be cool and noncommittal and take all the great advice on your other thread of how to act... just don't wear that dress.
Hang in there! You got this~ M
I am actually wearing the dress I wore on our very first date, hes always told me how much he loved it, I'm even getting my makeup done professionally beforehand. smile
I love it, if it makes you feel confident in your skin, and doesn't create expectations.
Good luck! How he feels tonight is only how he feels tonight.
I am actually wearing the dress I wore on our very first date, hes always told me how much he loved it, I'm even getting my makeup done professionally beforehand.
Oh hunny, I'm very, very worried you're setting yourself up for an emotional landmine here. I'm just not sure what's going to blow you to smithereens yet.
Be very careful here. Tread lightly. Don't lay it on too thick for him. He will want to run if he feels you chasing him. If you plan to keep the professional make-up I strongly suggest you take May's advice and pick something else to wear. Something that is your favorite not his.
I'm worried you're setting both of you up for failure here. Please, please try to take your expectations down like 87 pegs because I know you aren't in a place to immediately remove expectations from these situations yet. If you must go in with expectations please drop them to the floor.
Artemis,
maybe reconsider the first date dress. It could be too desperate if he will recognize it. You want the attitude of "I'll be fine no matter what".
Also don't buy anything he says right now.
Good luck tonight.
I strongly suggest you take May's advice and pick something else to wear. Something that is your favorite not his.
Agree. You are dressing for your confidence as well as to make you feel sexy.
I wish you well tonight. Stay strong. Control your emotions. Do not let your emotions control you.
You can handle it.
HUGS
Thank you guys for the advice. I will wear a different dress. Thank you for helping me see the issue in it. I will reply more when I have more time. But thank you guys.
Things went surprisingly calm. Husband did say he wanted a D still but after talking alot he told me to work on a plan for a trial separation and if he likes it he will do it.... Yeah I wasnt a fan of the way he said it either. Anyways I will reply with more details on the evening and everything tomorrow but I wanted to say something to everyone since youve all helped me so much with advice. So Thank you until tomorrow
“I do not want a trial separation, but I won’t stand in your way.”
He’s shifting the work of breaking up to you. The manipulative sales tactic of “accept separation OR accept divorce” is common. Let him take responsibility and do the work if he wants to breakup. (:
Thanks for the update. I’m glad tonight didn’t feel as devastating as you worried it could have been.
I am trying to read up more on other posts, so I understand alot of this stuff more and can handle things the best I can. As I said last night my H and I talked for over 2 hours. He wanted to talk, and I did my best to validate and deflect. Although some things I did have to answer and discuss. My H told me about alot of the problems in our marriage that he has issues with, and yes some things specifically with me, which hurt of course, but I stayed calm and understanding through it. Honestly most of what he said were things I have a problem with as well and have been trying to work on myself and come back to me. H told me that about a week and a half ago (we were currently separated and him talking to other people) that he was making the decision to stop talking to people and he was going to write things down and talk to me in a couple days about what we can do to work on our marriage, he had wanted to fix it. That night though I had found out about him physically cheating on me for the first time in our marriage, obviously it was a few weeks back, and I didnt bring it up calmly, I pretty much woke him in the middle of the night screaming (I know i didn't handle that well) and after that night he had decided to be officially done.
He told me that he was unhappy and that he just wanted to start over completely with his life... He asked me alot of questions and I deflected when I could and I tried not to talk about me changing and realizing things as much as possible as I know that he wouldnt believe it. But he did say if I came up with a Separation plan he was happy with, he would hold off on the divorce and try it. I am completely aware that divorce is still very much a possibility and of course I am hurting with all of this. But I am trying to keep faith and stay strong.
I am going to focus on myself and my son and getting back to who I am and the things I love. I am trying to research Separations, especially within this site, and try to figure out the best way to do one for us and what the outlines for it need to be. My H told me he really didn't want me to move out, I told him I didn't want to either but I want to do whatever is going to be best for us moving forward to really work things out, and we left it at that. As I mentioned i'm researching but if anyone has any advice on how to handle this separation I welcome any advice. Thank you all
Hi Artemis,
I am sorry you’re here. I definitely do not post a bunch, but I’ve been in IHS for over two years now.
I was truly shocked that my H could want a D, and I believed him when he said there was no one else. Silly me. During the course of this IHS , he has been engaged twice to OWs! Twice.
The second BD he said he didn’t want to be enemies. Huh. Ripping my future apart isn’t something a friend does. Now I do not want a D at all. But with help here and in IC, I have boundaries. I know what I will tolerate. I finally just told family. After two years. I didn’t want to because I am hopeful that we will get our MR back on track, and I wanted to spare them their feeling that they might develop against H as well as any sadness they might feel for me.
I know one thing that helps, is the OWs are in another country. If they were here, I think it wouldn’t be done already. If you read my threads, you’ll see I was so mad to tell family because this is H’s desire, not mine and he wants me to do all the work.
So my H wants a divorce, good for him. I am living my life. He can figure out how to get an atty and set the wheels in motion. Go live your life. Protect yourself. Let your H work things out on his own. Let him follow the steps to his freedom.
Take Care, PLC
How did everything go? You doing alright?
i see that you've already popped over here and your thread is getting good traction. I'm sorry you're here, but the folks on this board are good people and their advice is sound. good luck as you travel your journey.
I am trying to read up more on other posts, so I understand alot of this stuff more and can handle things the best I can. As I said last night my H and I talked for over 2 hours. He wanted to talk, and I did my best to validate and deflect. Although some things I did have to answer and discuss. My H told me about alot of the problems in our marriage that he has issues with, and yes some things specifically with me, which hurt of course, but I stayed calm and understanding through it. Honestly most of what he said were things I have a problem with as well and have been trying to work on myself and come back to me. H told me that about a week and a half ago (we were currently separated and him talking to other people) that he was making the decision to stop talking to people and he was going to write things down and talk to me in a couple days about what we can do to work on our marriage, he had wanted to fix it. That night though I had found out about him physically cheating on me for the first time in our marriage, obviously it was a few weeks back, and I didnt bring it up calmly, I pretty much woke him in the middle of the night screaming (I know i didn't handle that well) and after that night he had decided to be officially done.
He told me that he was unhappy and that he just wanted to start over completely with his life... He asked me alot of questions and I deflected when I could and I tried not to talk about me changing and realizing things as much as possible as I know that he wouldnt believe it. But he did say if I came up with a Separation plan he was happy with, he would hold off on the divorce and try it. I am completely aware that divorce is still very much a possibility and of course I am hurting with all of this. But I am trying to keep faith and stay strong.
I am going to focus on myself and my son and getting back to who I am and the things I love. I am trying to research Separations, especially within this site, and try to figure out the best way to do one for us and what the outlines for it need to be. My H told me he really didn't want me to move out, I told him I didn't want to either but I want to do whatever is going to be best for us moving forward to really work things out, and we left it at that. As I mentioned i'm researching but if anyone has any advice on how to handle this separation I welcome any advice. Thank you all
Sorry I'm trying to keep up between my 2 posts now, so I just copied and pasted this here as well so as to keep everyone up with whats going on.
Hi A,
You got through it-- great!
H told me that about a week and a half ago (we were currently separated and him talking to other people) that he was making the decision to stop talking to people and he was going to write things down and talk to me in a couple days about what we can do to work on our marriage, he had wanted to fix it. That night though I had found out about him physically cheating on me for the first time in our marriage, obviously it was a few weeks back, and I didnt bring it up calmly, I pretty much woke him in the middle of the night screaming (I know i didn't handle that well) and after that night he had decided to be officially done.
This is called gaslighting. He's trying to shift the blame to you. DO NOT BUY IT. He was already cheating and ready to leave. He's trying to make you feel guilty.
Of course waking him up in the middle of the night is not the best move... but also give yourself a break! He cheated on you and you were super angry. I have actually done the exact same thing more than once throughout all this mess. I'm not proud of it but I had a right to be angry... and you do too. If your H says he changed his mind about staying in the M because you were angry that he cheated? C'mon. I'm calling BS on this one and you should too.
But he did say if I came up with a Separation plan he was happy with, he would hold off on the divorce and try it.
Do you WANT to separate? If so, come up with the best, most favorable to you plan that you can. If not... I agree with CW. Why are you doing all the work for something you don't want? Let him figure his $hit out.
My H and I talked a lot about separating and I read a ton about it too. Here's my thought on this-- don't try to engineer some situation where you think he isn't going to be seeing other women while you are separated. He ABSOLUTELY is. What is the difference between S and D to you? Paperwork? Are you sure that the D wouldn't be a better option financially?
Remember-- you can't control him. Trying to put together a separation plan with restrictions on his behavior is not going to work. You only control you.
I am going to focus on myself and my son and getting back to who I am and the things I love.
This is terrific! Do it! What are all the things you love that you want to get back to? Tell us about your son too. What are three cool things you can do for yourself and your son this weekend?
He wasn't blaming me for being mad at him for cheating, I apologize if I made it come off as him blaming me at that point, he just doesnt believe that we can ever get past it, like for real, with full forgivness and no resentments, and me not feeling the need to spy on him for the rest of our life practically. (I know it would take a lot of work and time but I know I could in time, but there is no point in me telling him that as he'd have to see it not hear it, like we all know)
And No I don't want to separate, and It isn't a legal separation either, more just us separating more then we have such as the not talking as much as we still have and so on. I don't want to separate, but I really don't want to go to a lawyer and start filing for divorce either. I'm very unsure of what to do with this situation, I mean if I tell him I don't want the separation, should I just not do anything and see if he files for divorce? I thought getting him to agree to separate for awhile instead of filing for divorce would be better.... was I wrong???? I'm really trying to do my best here, but I'm obviously still learning.
I use to hike and run way more when my H and I had gotten together, over the years, due to his highly demanding 2 careers i tended to become more of a housewife in the sense that I worked less on things I enjoyed and would do things for my H, like make appointments, take care of insurance things, do things for him, just stuff like that, he liked that I helped but had never asked me to, I just sort of slipped into it I guess. Thats why me getting back to the things I enjoy is so important, i became Extremley dependent upon him over the years, Which drove him a bit crazy and my independence is what he Loved about me in the beginning.
As for this weekend sadly I am working long shifts all weekend. I am considering taking my son to the Zoo sometime next week, and Perhaps take him to the pool one day. Maybe watching a good movie with him, no phone or H in sight. My son is 7, and honestly just about the easiest kid out there, and I know as I've helped a friend practically raise her 4 at times lol, I was lucky with him for sure. My H also bought our son some really great radios the other day so I may try to play with those with him.
I haven't seen anything on here yet about it, but should I tell my H about medical concerns? I recently had something come up in which I am having to get a biopsy done, and I've been torn. I have never lied to my H, but I'm afraid to tell him about this situation. See part of me is concerned that if he knew about the possibility of me being sick he may be kind and come back out of obligation if something is going on, but I don't want him to do this out of obligation. I only want him to reconcile because he sees the changes and wants us to work on his own. But I really don't like not being honest with him about the situation.
Also I totally understand why it seems like gaslighting, but I should also add that he had started a letter to me about reconciliation on that night.... He showed it to me last night, only had 2 paragraphs but he had started it and dated it, also he had cut off the OW that night. Not saying anything he has done hasn't been selfish or any excuse of the sort, simply making sure I give all the facts.
Hi Artemis,
If I were you, I would not research separation or do any work along those lines. If that is what he wants to do, let him do the heavy lifting. I would talk to a L to make sure I had all the facts and was protected in case my H did decide to file for D, but I probably would not take any steps myself towards either S or D. If that means staying in the same house, I'd sleep in the master bedroom and let him sleep on the couch or wherever he wants. I would not text him or call him but I would respond in a friendly way if he reached out to me. I would do my absolute best to stop worrying about him and what he was doing, or not, and focus 100% on myself and my son. Hike, run, pool, zoo-- all sounds great! Exercising is a great way to GAL and can help you burn off some of the anxiety.
Avoid all relationship talks with him and have some set responses if he tries to start "oh, I get that you feel that way, I'm so sorry i gotta run" and exit the room. What is his relationship with your son-- does he consider himself his dad? Would he want some level of visitation rights if you were to split up? Assuming yes and assuming you still stay in the house, maybe you can agree to some days/nights that he watches your kid so that you can get out of the house and GAL. I would not tell him about the biopsy.
Dropping the rope is hard. This is a kind of "fake it til you make it" kind of thing. But you can do it! if he says he wants to continue towards D-- I would tell him, okay. if that is what you want, be my guest. (I would also say we won't be friends but that is me :)) But the key is acting like you don't care and then doing your very best NOT to care by refocusing all your energy on you and getting that independent, fun, athletic Artemis back!
Also... remember, believe nothing of what they say and only half of what they do. I would not believe anything he said about cutting off the OW or wanting to reconcile that night, dated letter or no.
Hang in there!
Thank you so much for your response. It really does help. I had no idea what I should do with the situation but I'm going to take your advice. I'm not going to do research into the S and I will stay in the bedroom and he can sleep on the couch. I'm working hard on trying to not contact him. I have made big strides with it, though I have faltered a few times, but its getting easier. I do notice him contacting me more when I dont try to contact him.
He has always been the type of person with my son that he didnt want him to call him dad, its just not how he was. But he's always been there for him 100%. Him and my son have talked about it and although he doesn't feel quite like his dad, he is his parent, confusing I know its been years of understanding it, and that he loves him and will always be there for him. They have a Great relationship so I will probably have to work something out so that he can watch him for me to GAL. Exercising helps with my anxiety very much thankfully. I'm considering trying the breaking plates too lol
The biopsy thing is what is so hard for me, I'm keeping it to myself for now, still not sure what I will do if it comes back with bad results though.
Thanks again
Advice in something. So I'm trying to back off and focus on me etc. My H keeps texting me today and I'm being friendly. He just sent me a picture after he got done chasing a guy... Security work... Just oh his face and sweating after the chase captioned " my post chase face" in these moments should I flirt with him? Some forums say to flirt but in my situation not sure if I should or what
Advice in something. So I'm trying to back off and focus on me etc. My H keeps texting me today and I'm being friendly. He just sent me a picture after he got done chasing a guy... Security work... Just oh his face and sweating after the chase captioned " my post chase face" in these moments should I flirt with him? Some forums say to flirt but in my situation not sure if I should or what
Time and space is not flirting. That's what you should be giving him even when he initiates contact. You need to treat him like the cashier at the store. Friendly, but not overly so. Do not over share.
Did his picture text contain a question? If not, hopefully you didn't respond.
But he did say if I came up with a Separation plan he was happy with, he would hold off on the divorce and try it. I am completely aware that divorce is still very much a possibility and of course I am hurting with all of this. But I am trying to keep faith and stay strong.
As others have said. His job. Not yours.
Read this:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2050041#Post2050041And this:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2051316#Post2051316This post links to all the threads I have with quotes from wise DBer. Reading through them will take some time:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2910892
Please stick to one thread in each forum. When you post more than one thread in a forum, it is difficult for posters to follow and provide advice to you. When the moderators see more than one thread created by a poster in a forum, they will merge the two threads into one until you have reached at least 100 postings/replies.
One last thing! Slow down and breathe!!! One second, one minute, one hour and then one day at a time. Try to keep the focus on you and what you need to do in order to survive and get through this period of time.
It didn't contain a question, and I had responded before i read this. I'm still trying to read through and figure out exactly how to react. I'm backing off and not giving him as much information about my life, being more myseterious, going out with friends etc. The reason I wasn't sure about the flirting was in DR in the Infedelity section where it talks about when they wont give up the Affair and doing the LRT, It says to find out what your S is getting from the OW such as boosting their ego, really listening to what they have to say, etc. and that you want to give them whatever it is they are getting from the OW. So that's why Im Not sure as to if I should flirt. I know for my H it's the excitment and I believe the getting his ego boosted. I believe he likes talking to people that don't know his faults, when he looks at me he feels guilt over having cheated on me and with them he doesn't feel that way.
So I feel there is some conflicting information here, people say don't flirt etc, but in the book when it discusses the OW it says to find out what your H is getting from the OW and then give it to them, such as being positive in the presence etc. Thats where my confusion lies...
Thanks for those articles, I've been reading through them, slowly but surely, I'm very busy so its taking me time to read through everything.
It didn't contain a question, and I had responded before i read this. I'm still trying to read through and figure out exactly how to react. I'm backing off and not giving him as much information about my life, being more myseterious, going out with friends etc. The reason I wasn't sure about the flirting was in DR in the Infedelity section where it talks about when they wont give up the Affair and doing the LRT, It says to find out what your S is getting from the OW such as boosting their ego, really listening to what they have to say, etc. and that you want to give them whatever it is they are getting from the OW. So that's why Im Not sure as to if I should flirt. I know for my H it's the excitment and I believe the getting his ego boosted. I believe he likes talking to people that don't know his faults, when he looks at me he feels guilt over having cheated on me and with them he doesn't feel that way.
So I feel there is some conflicting information here, people say don't flirt etc, but in the book when it discusses the OW it says to find out what your H is getting from the OW and then give it to them, such as being positive in the presence etc. Thats where my confusion lies...
MWD does make that suggestion. But she also says you need to back off and give space. The second suggestion doesn't go away for the last one. DBing principles are hierarchical. We also see a lot of LBSs that try to use a suggestion like "find out what your WAS' AP is providing and try to give that to them" as an excuse to do something they want.
For instance, sex is something that an AP gives to the WAS. However, sex is NOT something you should be engaging in with a cheating WAS!! Do not use a simple suggestion as an excuse to break core DBing principles.
I know this is all confusing, but the other thing flirting does is keep the focus on him, when you should be removing the focus from him and focusing on yourself! Giving him time and space, GAL. 180s (self-improvements), and detachment are paramount to anything else at this point. You flirting with him has a minimal chance of ever getting him back. Doing that which is counter-intuitive has a much better chance of getting him back. Read the pursuit-distance dynamic as to why backing off has a higher success rate than chasing does.
Read the Last Resort Technique.
In a nutshell, your H has to feel like he is going to lose you and that he's on the clock.
I'm paraphrasing here because it's been awhile since I've read the book "You want your spouse to think you have had an awakening and that you now realize you will be fine with or without them". In essence, let them go.
The 3 times I was able to get my ex to come back was with pitch black no contact. I never fought her on wanting to separate, in fact, I would help her load her car up with her stuff because I wanted her last memory of me to be an easy- going, helpful, excited about the future (fake it til you make it right?) guy. As soon as she would leave, I would fall apart. But I never let her see me sweat.
She would say "this isn't working and I'm going to move out". My response would be "this isn't what I want but I won't fight you". As soon as she would move out, I erased her phone number and went no contact indefinitely. Eventually she would reach out after a few months. One time she even moved to another state and then came back.
Okay I am definitely focusing on GALing and focusing more on me and my son, some of the information was just confusing. Trying to find the right balance of being positive when hes around but not giving him too much of my attention. Its been a big learning process for me. Yes of course flirting and what not would be something I want as I am only human, but I am not trying to find an excuse to do it, I swear, I'm simply trying to find the balance between doing a 180 and LRT and at the same time giving him what the OWs give him to a degree. It really is a delicate thing to master lol
And I am trying to stop initiating contact with him as much as possible, its difficult as we do live in the same house still and have our son as well.
You are going to get different opinions on how to behave. Some will say go left, while others will say go right. If you have always went left, then going right is a good 180. On the other hand, if you always go right, then going left is a good 180. At some point you can go from full left when needed or full right when needed or even straight as needed.
Lol sounds about as confusing as it has seemed to be so far. Ive definitely noticed when I dont contact him he contacts me more often. Other times me listening to him makes him be more open towards me and more loving... So it's a bit of both as I am seeing for sure.
Hi Artemis,
When in doubt, err on the side of being less available and responsive. If he's texting you something flirty, he's trying to confirm you're still there and interested. I'd hold off on responding. If you have to respond, give it a few hours (because you're so busy and important
) and then answer. You can be kind and interested like you would be to a neighbor but not like his wife, especially if this is how you guys have interacted in the past. Always end the conversation first if you do get dragged in.
Also... I just took a look at the infidelity section in DR and am a bit confused about what you're talking about. The section in infidelity when your S won't stop seeing his AP or other people more generally and is still saying he wants a D... I don't see anything in there about giving your H when he's getting from the OW. That comes later when you're healing. The closest I see is when she says drop all pursuit and all talking about the A and act as perky and upbeat as possible when he is around.
I think as Steve says, the key is that some of the advice is hierarchical. Stopping all pursuit behaviors is a primary one. If flirting or connecting with him has any flavor at all of pursuit, don't do it. You'll be working against yourself. Yes, act breezy and confident and totally fine when you do see him. If he initiates a conversation, validate and listen and end the convo first and go on your merry way. You'll start to see the effects of backing off and when you do... DO NOT STOP.
keep up the good work!
May
Thank you guys for the advice. I needed to hear it. My H sat down on the couch with me while I was watching tv and it hit me. I ended up walking upstairs and he followed me after a minute and asked me if I was coming back down. I told him that he cant keep having it both ways, he says he wants a divorce then gets ahold of me and talking to me like I'm his wife, and that he sits near me and kisses me sometimes like I'm his wife. I told him that I'm here and if he wants to work on our marriage then I am more then happy to do that but if hes going to keep saying he wants a divorce and telling others that and looking for OW then he just cant have it both ways. All he said was that he understands and he will leave me to it. I'm honestly in tears right now, its been a month since this all started and ive backed off but its the first time I really said anything like that to him. And I went into it knowing he wasnt going to say anything like "lets work on our marraige" or anything like that but it still hurt like hell when he just said he understood and walked away. It was so hard and I know that now it just gets harder as I have to stop being near him. But I want to save my marriage so I'm going to do my best to focus on GAL and not on my marriage
Lol sounds about as confusing as it has seemed to be so far. Ive definitely noticed when I dont contact him he contacts me more often. Other times me listening to him makes him be more open towards me and more loving... So it's a bit of both as I am seeing for sure.
Typical distance-pursuit dynamic!
Thank you guys for the advice. I needed to hear it. My H sat down on the couch with me while I was watching tv and it hit me. I ended up walking upstairs and he followed me after a minute and asked me if I was coming back down. I told him that he cant keep having it both ways, he says he wants a divorce then gets ahold of me and talking to me like I'm his wife, and that he sits near me and kisses me sometimes like I'm his wife. I told him that I'm here and if he wants to work on our marriage then I am more then happy to do that but if hes going to keep saying he wants a divorce and telling others that and looking for OW then he just cant have it both ways. All he said was that he understands and he will leave me to it. I'm honestly in tears right now, its been a month since this all started and ive backed off but its the first time I really said anything like that to him. And I went into it knowing he wasnt going to say anything like "lets work on our marraige" or anything like that but it still hurt like hell when he just said he understood and walked away. It was so hard and I know that now it just gets harder as I have to stop being near him. But I want to save my marriage so I'm going to do my best to focus on GAL and not on my marriage
Artemis, sorry you are struggling. DBing is very counter-intuitive, but I truly believe it gives you the best chance at saving your marriage. The problem is that it feels like you are doing the opposite of what you should be doing.
I've been through two situations in my own MR. In the first one I spent the first 2 months doing things the old way. I wrote her long messages. I sent her songs that were special to us both. I went overboard on showing affection. I focused all of my energy on her. I became Super Mr. Mom and did all of the housework. I said "I love you" to her about 120 times a day.
And after 2 months, she was further away from working on the MR than she was on the day I discovered her EA, and confronted her.
Then I found DB by MWD. And I backed off. I let her go. I started moving forward. I reversed all of the behaviors above. I started GAL. I started working on becoming the best version of me....FOR ME!! And I detached my emotions and reactions from her words and actions. And within days she was pursuing me!
12 years later, sitch #2 reared its ugly head, and almost immediately I started DBing. This time she was sure she wanted a D. It took weeks but eventually my backing off, giving her space, etc, caused her to question her decision to D, and she started coming around, slowly at first, to the idea of reconciling.
DB isn't a quick fix. It won't prevent your D overnight. It may not prevent the D at all. IN fact, DBing sometimes requires the WAS to go through with the D and then later realize they made a mistake. But the point is that DBing is going to let you move forward healthy and happy.....and it may eventually cause him to start questioning if D is what he really wanted or not.
Hang in there, it does get easier!
Thank you for that, I really needed to hear and have that support today. It definitely feels wrong, as if me not being there for him to confide in is going to make him look for someone else to confide in more. But I am trusting the process and all of the people who have been through it on here. This site has been my guide and strength in this whole thing. My best friend doesn't understand why I dont hate his guts and thinks I should remember the bad hes done and focus on that. I tried explaining how doing that would only hurt me but she doesnt get it. So that was really hard to deal with for me.
Thank you for telling me your story, it truly helps to hear stories if real people who have been through this and have saved their marriages. I know its possible I might not save mine. I know that my H will regret it, I truly do, I'm just afraid it'll be after the D. I'm going to do my best to only contact him when I have to, and keep reading through all the forums on here for advice.
LH often says something that I completely agree with with.
The fastest way to get your WAS back is a straight line in the opposite direction. (LH - correct me if I said it wrong).
Your H needs to feel like he is going to lose you. Did you notice how when you walked upstairs he came after you? This is what you want, but on a much larger scale.
If you really want the best chance to knock some sense into him, the next time he mentions divorce respond with this (But only if you can actually follow through with it).
Husband: I think we need to move forward with a divorce.
Artemis: You know, I've been thinking about that and I agree. I'll make an appointment to meet with an attorney to figure out how the process works.
Then you actually go meet with an attorney and get your ducks in a row.
Meanwhile, you start acting like you have had an epiphany that your life is going to be awesome now that you don't have to deal with a lying, selfish, cheating spouse anymore. Don't overcompensate and act over the top, you want to appear content and at peace. Almost like you have a glow about you. You respond in a friendly way when he talks to you but you don't initiate convos with him or do things with him anymore. You start going out with friends, working out, taking your son to cool places etc.
All of that ^^^^ is very attractive to a WAS.
Here's the kicker... at first, he's not going to believe any of this. He will try to call your bluff, maybe even try to make you jealous by rubbing another affair in your face. But you continue to act contect and relaxed, he's no longer your concern. It's critical you carry on like this for months until you actually do become this way.
It's a win/win because it will either get your WAS back, or you will be well on your way to healing and detachment and truly prepared to move on with your life.
It's not easy. But neither is this push/pull, sit back and watch him cheat on you approach.
Also acts of service are my Hs love language and with our careers ive akways dome mist if the housework so how should I handle that. Do I still do it mostly or do I start only doing me and my sons laundry and divide up our dishes. Etc. I'm sure this is one of those counter intuitve things. This is something that makes my H feel loved so I want to do these things for him. But I'm guessing its probably something where I need to stop doing any kind of specific housework for him. I'm just worried it'll make him feel I'm being lazy and have him think divorcing me is the right thing.
LH often says something that I completely agree with with.
The fastest way to get your WAS back is a straight line in the opposite direction. (LH - correct me if I said it wrong).
Your H needs to feel like he is going to lose you. Did you notice how when you walked upstairs he came after you? This is what you want, but on a much larger scale.
If you really want the best chance to knock some sense into him, the next time he mentions divorce respond with this (But only if you can actually follow through with it).
Husband: I think we need to move forward with a divorce.
Artemis: You know, I've been thinking about that and I agree. I'll make an appointment to meet with an attorney to figure out how the process works.
Then you actually go meet with an attorney and get your ducks in a row.
Meanwhile, you start acting like you have had an epiphany that your life is going to be awesome now that you don't have to deal with a lying, selfish, cheating spouse anymore. Don't overcompensate and act over the top, you want to appear content and at peace. Almost like you have a glow about you. You respond in a friendly way when he talks to you but you don't initiate convos with him or do things with him anymore. You start going out with friends, working out, taking your son to cool places etc.
All of that ^^^^ is very attractive to a WAS.
Here's the kicker... at first, he's not going to believe any of this. He will try to call your bluff, maybe even try to make you jealous by rubbing another affair in your face. But you continue to act contect and relaxed, he's no longer your concern. It's critical you carry on like this for months until you actually do become this way.
It's a win/win because it will either get your WAS back, or you will be well on your way to healing and detachment and truly prepared to move on with your life.
It's not easy. But neither is this push/pull, sit back and watch him cheat on you approach.
THIS. IS. AWESOME.
I remember having a discussion with my W later on in our sitch. She was talking about her plans to get a job, get an apartment, get a D, but that I would stay in the house, my D would live there. We could come over and have dinner. My D could come stay at her apartment for overnight stays, etc. She was talking as if she was moving on with this new life and I would be stuck sitting waiting to see if she ever changed her mind and wanted to come back.
During that discussion I said, "No, I will be selling the house. We will be doing 50/50 custody. We would take all joint holdings and split them 50/50." She was stunned. She said that wasn't what she wanted. I looked her square in the eyes and said: "Sorry, but it isn't fair for you to go out and start a new life and expect that I am not going to do the same."
I really believe that, and her finding out I had spoken to a D lawyer were the start of the turning point in our sitch. Admittedly I didn't DB 100% perfectly, but I do feel I DB'd well enough to effect one of the faster turnarounds than what is normally seen.
Artemis, fear is the #1 enemy of DBing. Thornton nailed the approach you should be taking. It may not save your marriage, there are no guarantees, but it has a much higher chance of doing so that doing what feels natural.
Also acts of service are my Hs love language and with our careers ive akways dome mist if the housework so how should I handle that. Do I still do it mostly or do I start only doing me and my sons laundry and divide up our dishes. Etc. I'm sure this is one of those counter intuitve things. This is something that makes my H feel loved so I want to do these things for him. But I'm guessing its probably something where I need to stop doing any kind of specific housework for him. I'm just worried it'll make him feel I'm being lazy and have him think divorcing me is the right thing.
I am not a huge advocate of changing these kinds of things overnight. I do think at some point you have to stop being his W. But you are only a month in so it might be a little fast. What I would do is just slowly, over time make changes. Maybe start by separating his clothes from the rest of yours and washing them separately. Then in another few weeks, instead of folding and putting them away, just fold them. Then in another few weeks, wash and dry them only and leave them in the basket. Then finally stop washing them all together. Eventually during that weeks/months long process he will ask "why did you stop putting them away?" "Why did you stop folding them?" "Why did you stop washing them?"
The answer: "You fired me as your wife."
Do not make a big issue or scene of it. When he starts protesting, yelling, threatening, etc, listen and validate. If you haven't read the validation thread, do it. Listening and validating is your new best friend!
I aporeciate how well Thorton laid out what I need to be doing. Saying detaching and whatnot is one thing. Hearing real examples of ways to do it help me alot more. I am going to take the advice and try my best not to backside. This seems easier if we didn't work the same hours and live in the same house but I'm going to find ways to make even being at home at the same time more separate. Thank you all for the great advice. I'm in the beginning stages of this so I know I ask alot of questions and I appreciate how kind and helpful everyone has been towards me during this.
And thank you about the housework stuff. That one was really difficult for me to figure out what to do. I'm going to do exactly what you said with the laundry and see how that goes.
Thornton is a wise DBer. Burn his advise into your brain.
I told him that he cant keep having it both ways, he says he wants a divorce then gets ahold of me and talking to me like I'm his wife, and that he sits near me and kisses me sometimes like I'm his wife. I told him that I'm here and if he wants to work on our marriage then I am more then happy to do that but if hes going to keep saying he wants a divorce and telling others that and looking for OW then he just cant have it both ways.
Now that you have told him this, NEVER REPEAT IT TO HIM AGAIN.
You have verbally set your boundary. It will now be a time for action that enforce that boundary. Words are words, actions gets results.
DO NOT GIVE HIM ANYMORE POWER. You have the power.
Some Mantras:
"This is not working for me"
"I do not share my husband with other women"
"I do not want to be with someone who does not want to be with me"
You can do this. You can handle it. You have a whole group of people here supporting you.
HUGS
That's the plan. I didnt want to say it at all. But he was noticing and asking so I thought I have to say this at least one time and then I wont again.
Today he texted me and asked me if I'd call his doctor for him to get some results (he was busy at work and couldnt take the call" I texted him back "you dont want me as your wife, if you did still then I would be happy to, but since you don't I'm sorry but I cant" ....... He just replied he cant get ahold of them and didnt ackniwledge what I said at all. So I didn't reply back.
And yes I know what I said was lengthier then I probably should have replied, I'm still learning.
Thank you for those quotes, tomorrow I'm taking my son to the zoo just us and havent told my husband about it at all. Thanks for the support, truly
Today he texted me and asked me if I'd call his doctor for him to get some results (he was busy at work and couldnt take the call" I texted him back "you dont want me as your wife, if you did still then I would be happy to, but since you don't I'm sorry but I cant" ....... He just replied he cant get ahold of them and didnt ackniwledge what I said at all. So I didn't reply back.
And yes I know what I said was lengthier then I probably should have replied, I'm still learning.
Learning is the Key!
Using the fewest, simplest words to get the point across has the greatest effect.
Never respond immediately. (You are a busy woman)
Right off the top of my head:
"No"
"Sorry, best if you call them"
"I believe you should call them"
"I can't right now, you should call them"
Remember, No explaining. Make a decision based on logic then execute.
Thank you for those quotes. I'm going to take a screenshot of them to refer back to when I want to say more. Lol
My only addition is to not say "sorry". No need for you to apologize.
Artemis1,
My H told me he isnt sleeping with anyone else and that he is talking to a woman but only as a friend for the time being. We are separated and as the book says I am not going to focus on the OW at all if thats what it is. And yes i do believe my H completely on the subject, when he cheated last time i knew it in my guy, my gut has never once been wrong and my gut is telling me to trust him. As Michele wrote in Divorce Remedy, "Trust you instincts. Dont let anyone else tell you what to do. If your not ready to give up on your marriage, Keep Fighting."
And as for the OW situation, I believe him because I am trusting my gut, and I can't really describe it more then that, I just know it to be true, also in DR when Michele discusses Infidelity and when the spouse wont give up OW and wants divorce, its said to pretty much forget the OW because it wont help my marriage. I have read stories of women who's husband left them for OW and they DB'D and ended up saving their marriage, I have faith because of these stories and because of the years of experience and the faith I have in my relationship. I am not saying part of me hasn't been angry at my H or that it hasn't been incredibly painful. But I don't believe infidelity has to be the death of my marriage, I believe we can get through this and have a very happy Marriage, and sometimes there aren't words to explain why that is, its simply my gut and my faith.
I know you want to say that you trust he's talking to women as a friend. Please understand this isn't negativity this is something we've seen 1000 times here. Those women aren't his friends. He cheated on you. He acknowledged cheating on you his job is to make you feel comfortable not himself. If he truly wanted to work on the MR he wouldn't have female friends running around.
I knew my ExW was having an EA (and quickly confirmed PA). I mean I have hard evidence of it. I absolutely knew for a fact. I confronted her several times about it over a couple months, slowly showing her more of my cards and each time giving her the opportunity to come clean about it. (Btw, this is not the approach people on here would recommend and I did this before finding the forum). Each time she would look me in the eyes and point blank/flat out lie to face denying as much as she could. And, I knew based on my snooping she always got off on lying to me and being secretive. My point is, based on what you've presented here despite what your husband is telling you he's almost certainly having an affair with this woman. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's a 99% probability based on all the experience people have here with these situations. It doesn't mean you can't stand for your marriage, forgive him, and maybe work it out...but brace yourself for that eventual truth.
I officially am not sleeping in bed with him anymore or having sex
Good! Stand up for yourself.
So thats what im going to do. I do know my husband and we are still best friends.... For now I am trying to just be his friend, and think of him that way, last night he told me I am his very best friend and he doesn't want to lose that, and that he loves me very much. Yesterday I was in the town where he works as a cop as I had errands, etc. I had to do. And he came and found me 3 times just to talk, we didn't discuss the relationship at all, just discussed work and all kinds of different topics just like good friends would. I never sought him out, he always sought me out
Also if he fired you as his wife he's not entitled to you as his best friend. Cheating and asking for a divorce is firing you as his wife. So if you aren't his wife, so much so he can just chat with other ladies when ever then he doesn't get the privileges of you being his best friend either. That's a wife's job.
Would friends, let alone best friends, treat each other the way your husband is treating you now? If he's going to cheat on you and divorce you, do you really want to remain friends afterwards? This seems like a act of fear, not strength. Maybe it's time to give husband a preview of what losing his W/best friend looks like. Most on here would tell you to treat him as you would a cashier at the grocery store - be polite and pleasant in encounters but also brief and don't overshare, and then go on with your life.
It's important that you are honest with yourself or your situation will never change.
You want the best shot at getting your H back (and faithful)? Bare with me, I'm going to be blunt.
You stop putting up with his bullsh!t and start respecting yourself. People can't love people they don't respect, and your H does not respect you. There are zero consequences to his behavior. Why would he stop talking to and having sex with other women? There's no reason to.
...
Being his "friend" will not work, Artemis. Being a friend enables his behavior and provides him with a very solid Plan B. It will also make him drag things out so he has time to sleep with as many women as possible. Be his friend and watch this drag out for months if not years.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I felt it was important to not blow smoke up your a$$.
^^^THIS!!!
1. Almost everyone here does not take the advice given to them when they first arrive.
2. Almost everyone here regrets not taking the advice given to them when they first arrived.
^^^THIS!!! I ABSOLUTELY wish I had be stronger initially and stood up right away to what ExW was doing. Not sure it would've had a different outcome, but definitely think it would've helped me heal/process sooner, and maybe ExW respect me more. It's time to dig down and get strong and stand up for yourself. If you don't it's likely in the near future you'll wish you did.
Artemis1 - Sorry if I'm a little behind here. Just read through your entire thread and pulled some things out.
The good news is you have some FANTASTIC feedback - maybe more than I've seen on here in quote awhile - at least a dozen expert board posters in a short period of time. My guess is it's also a bit overwhelming, but as your sitch progresses read back through what people wrote so you can process it again.
My biggest overall takeaway from your thread so far is that you need to get strong and stand up for yourself. STOP believing his lies, stop being his best friend. START acting as if YOU are the catch and HE is going to lose you. It's not about discarding your marriage, it's the best way to make yourself attractive to other people (including your H). Start working out, buy some new clothes, go out and do some new activities/hobbies, make new friends...etc. The point of DB here is to work on yourself and make yourself the best you can be, and maybe it'll lead to your spouse coming around, but if it doesn't...you'll be a better you regardless of what happens.
I knew my ExW was having an EA (and quickly confirmed PA). I mean I have hard evidence of it. I absolutely knew for a fact. I confronted her several times about it over a couple months, slowly showing her more of my cards and each time giving her the opportunity to come clean about it. (Btw, this is not the approach people on here would recommend and I did this before finding the forum). Each time she would look me in the eyes and point blank/flat out lie to face denying as much as she could. And, I knew based on my snooping she always got off on lying to me and being secretive. My point is, based on what you've presented here despite what your husband is telling you he's almost certainly having an affair with this woman. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's a 99% probability based on all the experience people have here with these situations. It doesn't mean you can't stand for your marriage, forgive him, and maybe work it out...but brace yourself for that eventual truth.
Do not reveal WHAT you know of HOW you know, Only that you DO KNOW.
Here is a good response:
"We both know that is a lie (on not true). When you are ready to speak the truth, I will listen" Then walk away.
Look here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045336#Post2045336
Okay so I'll start my replying then I have to explain something that happened last night.
First I actually know for a fact they are just friends because I actually know the woman hes talking to as friends. I think somewhere along the way this got lost in translation, maybe I didnt word things correctly and I apologize for this miscommunication as it seems to be the one constant here
Anyways so last night was a very turbulent night. To start off with my H asked me if I had thought about the Separation, I told him I hadnt had much time and I didn't really want it so he would have to figure it out. He looked confused so I asked him "Do you still want a separation? And he said " I dont know what I want anymore, I'm so confused" so I asked him if he wanted to take time to think and he said yes. And that was the end of that.
Later that night my husband had gotten sick and was throwing up in our bathroom, now I couldnt help but come in to check on him and see if he needed anything. After staying in there with him for a bit and he was better, my emotions were gwtting the better of me so I excused myself and went to another room to gather myself. My H came after me after a bit and found me crying. I asked him if he would let me be and he said he didnt want me to be upset and wanted to help. I told him I was emotional and didnt want to talk about it as I didnt want to burden him etc. (I was trying hard not to say what I wanted to say as is suggested here alot) but he kept insisting and thanks to no sleep and my emotional state I told him pretty much just how hard the situation was as I want to be his wife and to take care of him when hes sick but that he wants to fire me from this job and its hard for me. He then said "I do want you as my wife, I'm sorry I'm done with alk this stuff, I want to work on our marriage and be together" Obviously hearing this I was taken back and cautious I told him that he shouldnt say this just because I was upset or because I just took care of him while he was sick, that he shouldnt say it unless he meant it, he swore he did. Then he hugged me and after about a minute he pulled back and said "I'm still so conflicted and confused, I love you and I do want to fix this but I'm just so confused" I said so you didnt fully mean what you said that your ready to work on this completely and he said "part of me really does, I even talk to (his friend) about it today, but I'm so conflicted and I want to be honest with you, I'm sorry." I told him that "I appreciate your courage in telling me all of this, I know your confused and I know it was hard for you to say part of you wanted to try and probably even harder to say your still too confused to say that your ready for sure right now, do you want to talk more about it right now or do you want time to think?" He said he needed time. And we left things on a good note with that.
I'm pretty low today now, I haven't slept and I'm very emotional. I'm working a 15 hour shift today which isn't helping too much. Anyways I was aware that this is an emotional roller coaster, everyone says that the WAS will go back and forth so last night when he first said he wanted to fix us I was trying not to take it too completely to heart, but still hearing him say it then take it back at least a bit to where he wasnt ready to commit to it was hard to take anyways. The fact that he told me these things and was honest with me like that shows progress so I'm going to take that victory. I'm going to keep doing the DBing. I wanted to share this though.
I'm really sorry you are hurting, Artemis.
These things are actually very predictable once you have been here for a while. They almost always play out the same way.
I'm going to be really honest with you, ok?
The reason your H is confused is because there is another woman. Yes, he is cheating on you right now. I would bet my mortgage on it.
He wants to keep "buying time", because he is trying to figure out which woman to be with. His anxiety is spiking because he is living a lie and it's extremely stressful to cheat and carry on like this. He is guilt ridden.
On one hand he has you, the faithful loyal wife who will tolerate anything that he does. He doesn't pick you at this point because you don't carry yourself as a high value partner (he doesn't respect you). Being loyal to a cheater is not sexy.
On the other hand, the other woman excites him. She is probably a challenge, she makes him work for her affection. It's kind of like dating your first crush in high school. Emotions and hormones are running rampant.
The only way to get him off the fence is to remove yourself from the situation. You have to become the challenge for him. People want what they can't have. He has to see you as a challenge. He has to see you as the woman that every man in town wants, but can't have.
So how do you become that woman? You simply stop tolerating being cheated on. You tell him you know what's going on and that if he can't decide to be married to you (and faithful), that you will make the decision for him.
The longer you let this play out, the worse your chances of reconciliation. Rip the band aid off.
Artemis,
I have not responded to your thread because I get the sense you would not like the advice I would give you. Please read what Thornton posted as it is pure gold (nice job Thornton). Hard to read, hard to implement but your only winning path.
Unfortunately, the hardest thing for you right now is to realize there's nothing you can actively do that will change what he's going to do. Nothing.
You need to accept that, process it, surrender to it. That is the hardest part of all of this, the situation, in terms of what he does, cannot be changed by you. It's too late for that now.
If you want to reconcile, you're in a waiting game, and the only course of action that leads to reconciliation, IMO, is emotional distance and not actively trying to fix *anything* between you because that ship has sailed.
You need to focus on you, being the best woman you can be, and taking your attention 100% off of him. Do not be his friend, do not be his safety net, do not engage with him at all beyond the minimum you can manage to co-parent. That's it. Get him out of the house as soon as possible, co-habitation will make things worse.
Does that sound like horrible advice? Is it scary? Are you convinced that certainly it doesn't apply to you?
That's all normal. Everyone feels like their situation is unique, and there must be some answer, some solution they just haven't discovered that is within their control. There isn't. You don't have an option that doesn't suck. You have to pick the least sucky option of all the sucky options you have and learn to accept that. The option that [censored] the least is protecting yourself by giving yourself emotional space.
Distance from him emotionally, but be happy, upbeat, successful and positive on your own. Fake it until you make it. That is quite literally all you can do, and that, girl, is a very bitter pill to swallow.
This is the value of hind sight, and unfortunately for most people, you can't absorb it until you're ready.
Time for a new thread. You have reached the 100 posting/reply limit. Please be sure to link both threads together. Thanks!
How do I link the threads?