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Posted By: Gigi123 Still not divorced - 06/26/21 06:56 AM
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904504#Post2904504

Previous thread above

In brief: separated for 15 months, h lives with OW, has kids 2 night per week. Wants division of assets, where he literally splits everything 50/50.

I feel much calmer today, woke up to the sounds of the birds chirping, the sun is shining, boys are back home today, life is good!
If he doesn't want to talk to me about anything thats fine, means i have more time to organise my finances and life plans with no pressure. Im really trying to see the positives in this situation.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 06/28/21 08:48 PM
H is going away for a week or so, so wont see the kids for a bit. Would you say that once he is back we continue with our normal schedule or would it be expected that he has more nights when back?
As i type it i think its ridic, but its the type of thing that might come up, as im accused of bot letting him see the kids more often.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Still not divorced - 06/30/21 03:10 PM
Hey Gig,

Your H wants division of assets at 50/50 right? What are you thinking about this?

I can't advise on whether or not your H gets "makeup" time when he gets back. I would learn towards no unless you choose to be nice about it.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Still not divorced - 06/30/21 05:02 PM
Gigi123,

Originally Posted by Gigi123
Wants division of assets, where he literally splits everything 50/50.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Your H wants division of assets at 50/50 right? What are you thinking about this?

What is he entitled to legally? Maybe he's feeling guilty and wants a smooth exit and is offering 50/50 even though he's entitled to more. If so, you should jump at the chance to make the best deal for yourself. But if he's not entitled to half and you're entitled to more, I personally wouldn't settle. Talk with an L and understand what you're legally entitled to, and then make it a business decision/negotiation.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
H is going away for a week or so, so wont see the kids for a bit. Would you say that once he is back we continue with our normal schedule or would it be expected that he has more nights when back?
As i type it i think its ridic, but its the type of thing that might come up, as im accused of bot letting him see the kids more often.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I can't advise on whether or not your H gets "makeup" time when he gets back. I would learn towards no unless you choose to be nice about it.

What is best for your children? That's the most important factor, and the question my parents often come back to me with when discussing my sitch. It's easy of getting into a negotiation and trying to "win" when it comes to time with the kids - admittedly I've gotten caught up in that early on - but the best thing to do would be to put aside your personal feelings and do what's best for the kids. Now, maybe he's abusive or doesn't care for them...etc. and it's better for them to be more with you, but if he's a good dad and the kids would benefit from seeing him maybe it's best to allow him more time when we returns from his trip. Try to find that balance between being taken advantage of with constant requests for schedules changes that disrupt your life and being flexible for him so he's willing to accommodate your potential future schedule needs. Ultimately "what's best for the kids" should be everyone's primary consideration, but I can certainly relate to the emotions involved which can cloud that goal.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 06/30/21 05:36 PM
Thank you really helpful.
Re assets-50/50 is an easy out for him, i would be entitled to more and depending on court decision potentially staying in the house all-together until kids turn a certain age. You see none of these things are straight forward, as in the court decides on fair, but fair doesnt mean equal. So the court would look at all assets, that includes pension and the fact that he lives with someone else and has another wage coming in, also as we are still married i could file for D based on adultery, all of this affects court decisions. I have parked this for now, as he isnt willing to talk and there is no rush. Eventually if we cant agree, we will have to do mediation.

Yes yes yes, best interest of the kids, its always at the forefront of course. He is a good dad, be it even the kids can see changes in him and dont like them. Ill play it by ear, depending on what is requested of course.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 07/01/21 12:17 PM
You do have a lawyer, right?
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/09/21 07:09 PM
Every intention of sorting all of that out, but universe is creating obstacles, kids have been unwell, s5 now covid positive, so we are self isolating, but s7 is with H temporarily, as he is overly concerned about him getting it, which nakes no sense, as we have all been in the same house and shared a bed for the past week.
Basically at the moment, other things in the agenda. Once again, he just expects me to sign all papers for house sale. And refuses to talk to me about anything. Im obviously not signing anything, as there is no reason why i would.
Just need to get through 10 days of working/homeschooling and recovering
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/26/21 06:49 PM
Out of self isolation, s6 has bounced back after covid, all fit and well.
And im ringing the solicitors tomorrow, i have offered H mediation, but he said he doesnt need it, he made it clear what im getting from him and the house sale, and he is stopping paying for the house. So thats where we are now. We do have an offer on the house, but i can actually pay for the house and bill myself! But he is not willing for that to happen unless i can release equity. And i think the only way this will happen, and we can resolve this is through solicitors now. Its really unfortunate as i really thought we were amicable enough to talk this through and agree a middle ground.
Posted By: harvey Re: Still not divorced - 07/26/21 07:21 PM
Sorry to hear that. I feel fortunate that I had a quick, amicable divorce. I maybe didn't get all that I could, but it was fair enough. I did get the most important thing--the child custody schedule that I wanted. That's about all that mattered to me.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/26/21 07:44 PM
I honestly thought that we could do this, could agree amicably. But he is just repeating the same thing over and over again and then goes silent. So we cant actually discuss anything. And then weeks go by and it starts all over again.

The child custody hasnt been part of the discussion at all, he gets 2 nights per week and the third night only one of the kids goes, to allow for 121 time, which rarely happen with H, as ow is always there.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/26/21 07:51 PM
Its been a year and 4 months now since we seperated and somehow it feels like this is all just starting now, how do i even find the energy and the patients to het through all of this?! Its always on my mind, a weight on my shoulders.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 07/27/21 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Gigi123
Its been a year and 4 months now since we seperated and somehow it feels like this is all just starting now, how do i even find the energy and the patients to het through all of this?! Its always on my mind, a weight on my shoulders.


I will answer your question with a question. How is your GAL going?

The LBSs that struggle the most and the longest do a poor job of GAL.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/28/21 09:15 PM
I have to be honest, GAl with kids is great, we generally do loads together. Friday we went for a walk with alpacas and a picnic, saturday went to the cinema, sunday went to a working farm to feed the animals. The 2 days that the kids are with H i work long days, occasionally ill meet a friend, go for a walk, exercise or spend time listening to a lecture. Being a single parent is full on, i also work pretty much full time and do additional hours as much as i can whilst im getting paid for it. Im not really sure what else i can fit in and when.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 07/28/21 09:24 PM
I guess im not struggling without H, in frustrated with the fact that he is not communicating to try and resolve this, and i dont understand why, as he clearly has moved on. If it was me, i would absolutely be there talking and organising things, getting rid of joint accounts, changing names and bills etc. I have asked him so many times to move the car lease in my name as i drove the car but it has been 5 months and he hasnt done it. I offered him mediation to see if that would help progress, but he refused. These are my frustrations, i guess i recognise that im moving to a place like many lbs where i will be the ones filing, else nothing will happen.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 07/29/21 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Gigi123
I have to be honest, GAl with kids is great, we generally do loads together. Friday we went for a walk with alpacas and a picnic, saturday went to the cinema, sunday went to a working farm to feed the animals. The 2 days that the kids are with H i work long days, occasionally ill meet a friend, go for a walk, exercise or spend time listening to a lecture. Being a single parent is full on, i also work pretty much full time and do additional hours as much as i can whilst im getting paid for it. Im not really sure what else i can fit in and when.

Ok, sounds like you are doing fairly well. As long as you are being honest with yourself here. Are you in IC?

Originally Posted by Gigi123
I guess im not struggling without H, in frustrated with the fact that he is not communicating to try and resolve this, and i dont understand why, as he clearly has moved on. If it was me, i would absolutely be there talking and organising things, getting rid of joint accounts, changing names and bills etc. I have asked him so many times to move the car lease in my name as i drove the car but it has been 5 months and he hasnt done it. I offered him mediation to see if that would help progress, but he refused. These are my frustrations, i guess i recognise that im moving to a place like many lbs where i will be the ones filing, else nothing will happen.

Logic doesn't work with WASs. They are not logical, they are going on emotions and feelings. All of the logistics you mention are counter to emotions and feelings. They remind him of what was. They are seen as drudgery and details he doesn't want to deal with. So many LBSs with walkaways that have left and moved on struggle with the loose ends. Most end up having to tie them up themselves.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/21/21 09:37 PM
Hey everyone, not much to update here really. 18 months on and at a standstill,well it feels like that anyway. Lots of plans in which direction to head, and trying to make it all happen, i know that one day very soon all plans will fall into place.

Kids are still struggling, more so S7 (soon to be 8), he is angry at H, often declines to go and stay and very much seeing H for who he is. Whilst im not responsible for his relationship with H, im concerned about S7 emotional wellbeing. S7 doesnt speak to anyone but me about this and will certainly not tell H. Should i speak to H about this, or like everything else this will fall onto deaths ears?

S6 we think has ADHD, so god knows what is happening in his head, he isnt as good at getting his emotions and feelings identified and heard.

Otherwise i generally feel calmer and more content, even his randomness doesnt trigger too much of an emotional response anymore. He is still with OW, but i know no more about their lives.
Im not ready to actively go out there and date, i think i will be once we have resolved all outstanding issues, finance, house and once we are in the process of divorce. I also dont think that introducing anyone into the kids lives at the moment would he a gold idea.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Still not divorced - 09/22/21 01:06 PM
Gigi123,
Originally Posted by Gigi123
Kids are still struggling, more so S7 (soon to be 8), he is angry at H, often declines to go and stay and very much seeing H for who he is. Whilst im not responsible for his relationship with H, im concerned about S7 emotional wellbeing.
Sorry to hear your kids are struggling. That must be tough. I know it weighs on me.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
Otherwise i generally feel calmer and more content, even his randomness doesnt trigger too much of an emotional response anymore.
That sounds positive.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
Im not ready to actively go out there and date, i think i will be once we have resolved all outstanding issues, finance, house and once we are in the process of divorce. I also dont think that introducing anyone into the kids lives at the moment would he a gold idea.
I waited until my D was finalized, and don't regret it. I haven't done much in the months since either - don't think it hurts to wait. If you do decide to start dating I think you're wise to hold off on intros to the kids. They don't need any more instability in their lives at this point.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/22/21 09:16 PM
The kid part is the toughest in all honesty, s7 doesnt talk to anyone about his feelings except me. He doesnt ask H any questions or allows his emotions to show. So every time they are back from H i spend a lot of time at bed time listening to s7. I do encourage him to talk to H, but he says it’s pointless, he doesnt feel that he can. So i guess H sees the situation very differently and most likely thinks that kids are ok and well adjusted now. What he doesnt get to see is tears at bed time at least a couple of times per week.
Sometimes i think it would be good to tell him all of this, but then i also feel like its probably pointless and i would be breaking my sons confidence.
Posted By: Sage4 Re: Still not divorced - 09/23/21 04:29 AM
Oh, Gigi, I complete relate on the kid front, it's so hard! I have been navigating some similar things with my kiddos and here are some lessons I have learned along the way:

1. Be the strong, stable parent who is always available to lend an ear when needed (you're nailing this one)

2. Beyond encouraging your child to talk to Daddy himself, offer language to help him navigate those conversations. Role play where you are Daddy and he is child. Kiddo may not be able to talk to Dad for a while, but the language you give him will stick and could be useful for other relationships in the future.

3. Considered getting kiddo into therapy, all the better if Dad is willing to go to family therapy with your child. I listened to a fascinating podcast where a child psychologist was interviewed (look up Dr Kolewicz on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard). He talks about how most parents wait too long (like YEARS too long) to seek help for their child. He is primarily referencing depression and anxiety, but those two conditions, like almost all of them, have much better outcomes in children when addressed early before their brains are more developed.

4. Another benefit with therapy is that the therapist can be the person to address the concern with the other parent so you don't have to. When I have gotten involved and spoken to my children's father about my concerns (which were legitimate and factual), it ended up in a triangulation between father, me and child, and the conversation shut down.

5. And the reality of the situation is that this is the child's path to navigate with their other parent. The downside? It hurts to watch your child suffer emotionally. The upside? Your child is gaining tools early in life that they will use for the rest of their life. My children are learning tools that I am just now learning in my 40's. They have 30 years on me in this regard and I am grateful for this.

Hugs to you and your sweet children, this is hard stuff, but we can all do hard things.

((Gigi)))
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/23/21 11:42 AM
Thank you so much Sage!

I have very much experienced the shut down of a conversation. H thinks he knows it all and doesnt recognise that i simply have a little more info that can help him help our son. I dont know how to even approach the subject of therapy with him…..at this stage i would be lucky if ob the day he has the kids they attend the planned after school sport club….


I have learnt to separate my emotions towards their dad from their emotions, however when he is so upset i really struggle to separate my motherly instinct and see as you say that this albeit very unpleasant is giving him the experience and tools for the rest of his life.
And whilst he is so wise for his young age, he is still my baby and of course i want to protect him at all times.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/25/21 08:51 PM
I wonder if i could get your views.

S7 doesnt like staying the night with H, he is happy enough during the day but when it comes to bed time he gets upset, sobs and says he wants to go home and that he misses me. Most days he ask H to txt me, (h doesnt) some days he asks to call me, h doesnt always let him and then there are times when he does face time me before bed and all he wants me to do is come and get him. Its heartbreaking for me to watch.

So considering his age, he is nearly 8 and a very grown up at that, in in two minds about what is right.
Do we continue with this and let him cry with H until he gets used to it? (Strangely he used to stay there ok, this could he a phase or a reflection of their relationship)
Or do we listen to what our 8 year old is trying to tell us and accommodate that by him not staying the night there?

Any other ideas? Im not sure i can take listenibg to him sob, i obviously dont feel like i can just go there and collect him, but is he just going to resent both of us for making him stay there?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 09/25/21 10:40 PM
My W told me she used to ball and beg her mom not to send her to her dad's for court ordered visits. My W had to fly by herself as a minor as her dad lived out of state. She hated going. Unfortunately, that is part of D. If your H won't let him text you, barely lets him call or FaceTime you, then I'm assuming you're husband will not agree to but making him start overnight? You could talk to him about it, but if he refuses there isn't much you can do about it.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/26/21 06:37 AM
Thanks Steve, to be fair to H he probably feels frustrated and feels like letting S7 ring me just escalates things, the moment he sees me he sobs even more and just wants me to come and pick him up. We dont have any court orders, nothing agreed through solicitors either, we are trying to work together for the benefit of the children and out agreement on days and night is very much based on what the boys wanted.

I feel for your wife, the kids are in the middle of it all anyway and have no control and im worried that S will just resent us for it.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Still not divorced - 09/26/21 06:47 AM
Hey Gigi,

Originally Posted by Gigi
Most days he ask H to txt me, (h doesnt) some days he asks to call me, h doesnt always let him
My custody arrangement doesn't guarantee XW a right to correct my D or S, but it does guarantee my D and S the right to contact XW or myself anytime (practical) they want to. Depending on your state, and custody terms, you may be able to seek remedy if he's blocking that.

Originally Posted by Gigi
Do we continue with this and let him cry with H until he gets used to it?
You ask what "we" should do, but if it's XH's custody time, it's his decision. Has he requested your input or would otherwise be open to it? My S cried whenever he went to my XW for months near the beginning. It was heart-wrenching and my (LBS) XW did little to ease it, a "You wanted this" attitude. In my case, I talked to my son on the phone after transition and was firm that there were no exceptions to the custody transitions and the 25% he was there. In your case, I wonder if your XH would agree to a nightly facetime chat--at both homes? You want your child comfortable with each of you. Maybe be firm how long he has on Facetime and that the outcome isn't going to change? I found my kids challenged me less when they realized a boundary was firm. I'd also consider any stuffed animals, bedding, etc. that contribute to him being calmer at your place. Sorry you're going through this. It was a truly miserable time.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/26/21 07:56 AM
Hey, thank you, all valid points.

No he hasnt asked me for input, he generally txt me after S7 goes to bed to say please dont worry. Its upsetting for both me and H to see S7 like this.

We dont have a custody agreement, we have an agreement though between ourselves and it allows us to be flexible when needed, for example H had surgery, so couldnt have the boys, he was also really unwell again stayed at home, s7 was very unwell and stayed at home whilst he was ill.

If this was happening 18 months ago, i would totally agree with you, but we are 18 months down the line and it started happening a couple of months ago with S slowly withdrawing from wanting to spend time with H and escalating to these horrible times at bedtime when he is at H house.
I always leave the decision with H when they are there, if he feels like S7 isnt settling he can always drop him off at home and has done before whrn both S6 and s7 begged him to go home.

I do feel for him, but i truly think its an reflection of his relationship with the kids and i cant be responsible for that relationship.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Still not divorced - 09/26/21 03:01 PM
Gigi123,
Originally Posted by Gigi123
The kid part is the toughest in all honesty
I completely understand. I feel like I can (and have) taken it and worked through it and know I'll be ok, but hate the hurt and impact it's having on my children, whether it's the near term-tears or the long-term behavior modeling.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
So every time they are back from H i spend a lot of time at bed time listening to s7.
That's great you're there for him. He needs that.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
So i guess H sees the situation very differently and most likely thinks that kids are ok and well adjusted now. What he doesnt get to see is tears at bed time at least a couple of times per week.
I don't know how ExW views the kid situation - whether she sees the tears and impact and thinks "they'll just get over it like I did" or whether the kids save that for my house - but have dealt with many crying/breakdowns including 2 mother's days ago when my son (then 4) was looking out the window crying he just wants to see mom on mother's day (don't know for sure, but now believe she was with OM2) or last Fall when he cried for 45 mins about missing mommy while I held him and he fell asleep in my arms. Who knows what your H or my ExW are seeing though, or if it even matters to them. They're probably telling themselves "It'll be better for the kids if I'm happy" to justify their actions, but who knows.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
Sometimes i think it would be good to tell him all of this, but then i also feel like its probably pointless and i would be breaking my sons confidence.
I have the same internal debate, and for better or worse decided to take the "probably pointless and don't want to betray the kids' confidence" approach. The last thing we want is for our kids not to feel comfortable talking to us.

Originally Posted by Sage4
1. Be the strong, stable parent who is always available to lend an ear when needed (you're nailing this one)
Completely agree! Keep it up!

Originally Posted by Gigi123
I wonder if i could get your views.
My personal view is you can't completely protect them from the impacts of your H's decisions. If he continues down this path there WILL be a legally binding agreement for them to stay over, so S7 will have to deal with it at some point. Without an agreement in place you may be able to stand firm for the moment and say "No, the kids are staying with me.". However, your H could then take the matter to court which would likely result in him having time. Have you consulted with a lawyer? If not, please do so (without H knowing!). It's all well and good to do it informally, but behind the scenes you should know your rights, and know how taking certain actions will play in court. Time to start protecting your interests.

In terms of the phone calls/Facetime, my ExW and I have had the policy the parents could call/video chat with the kids on "off" days, and I think that's best for the kids. But your H would have to agree to it in your current informal sitch.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
My W told me she used to ball and beg her mom not to send her to her dad's for court ordered visits. My W had to fly by herself as a minor as her dad lived out of state. She hated going. Unfortunately, that is part of D.
That's heartbreaking. Must've been so hard. Kids shouldn't be put through that situation.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
to be fair to H he probably feels frustrated and feels like letting S7 ring me just escalates things, the moment he sees me he sobs even more and just wants me to come and pick him up.
I think you're probably right about this. I know seeing (in person or briefly on facetime) can stir up emotions and make things harder in the moment. That said, ExW and I have been good about always allowing each other to talk/video chat with the kids when we're away and for the most part that's been a good policy for the kids.

Originally Posted by Gigi123
We dont have any court orders, nothing agreed through solicitors either, we are trying to work together for the benefit of the children and out agreement on days and night is very much based on what the boys wanted.
You're in a bit of a different situation in that your H moved out and you have no formal agreement. Not sure it changes how you should handle whether S7 goes with him or whether you can Facetime, but what's the current schedule, and have you explored with a lawyer how this will impact the eventual custody agreement? You want to position yourself to have the upper hand here if possible so you have the leverage and H doesn't pull anything down the road. Hate to be cynical, but protect your rights.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/27/21 11:01 AM
Thank you BL, really grateful for your comments. I know everyones circumstances are different and we are also in different countries and so on.

We can D without having a custody agreement and my preference would be to keep that out of court, things change and so far, not without some disputes, managed to agree things re kids. H has them 3 night i have them 4, ultimately i have them more either way, as he is with OW and there are times when he doesnt see the kids 3 nights for whatever reason and i dontt push it, as it means i get to see my kids more! If he took me to court over this the likely hood would be that it would be a 50/50 split, would it be best for the kids? Unlikely as they both say they want to stay at home more and S7 particularly doesnt like OW living with dad, he cant fully relax there and has to constantly manage what he can and cant say.

I would never say the kids are staying with me, but there are times when S7 really struggles and i can see that his anxiety is through the roof, it doesn't happen every time but i would like the flexibility to allow S7 to stay at home if he is feeling like that. Also with S6 having ADHD its actually healthy for them to spend some time apart from each other.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 09/27/21 01:01 PM
Just to elaborate on the flexibility. So yesterday H didnt have the boys, he could have been a bit more organised in letting me know, but he was unwell (or so he says) so he asked to collect the boys from school today,as he hasnt seen them since Friday morning and i say ok to that, although today was my evening and H was meant to collect tomorrow.

Yes it does mean we communicate, but our interactions are business like, and if truly this didnt work for me work wise this week i would tell him.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/12/21 10:28 AM
Hi All

Nothing to report on, we are in self isolation both kids have covid, however i managed to take some time off work and it was lovely to spend time with them, be it that we couldnt go anywhere.
We are away from Wednesday next week for 10 days, we are all looking forward to it and its S7 birthday too, so we will get to spend that with my family and friends.

Otherwise everything else is at a standstill, but i dont give it too much thought. Only slight concern is H health, he is waiting on some test results and whilst i dont know the details he shared with me his worry, im assuming because it could be serious and will obv affect the kids and me in some way, if he isnt able to have them for example.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 10/12/21 03:27 PM
Gigi, good to hear from you. Sorry about the state of everyone's health, always puts things into perspective. Hopefully he will get good news from his tests.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 08:24 PM
New territory for me, i think i know the answer to this.
H gave S7 his old phone, we are isolation still so H has been contacting S7 directly on that mobile.
I mean s7 is hopeless with communicating via txt and has limited interested.
When the phone arrived here it had OW phone number there. I left it as is, but now she started txting S7. On one hand i dont care, as in ok of S7 wants to respond then ok. On the other hand we are at home, its not H time so to speak and she wouldnt have access to S7 otherwise.

Just initial deliberations in my head
Posted By: BL42 Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 08:27 PM
Gigi123,
Originally Posted by Gigi123
When the phone arrived here it had OW phone number there. I left it as is, but now she started txting S7.
I know what I'd want to do. Not sure what the "right" thing is though...
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 08:30 PM
Well my first emotional response was to block and delete. But obv when S7 is with H they will see that i have done that. But in a sensible woman and i know how S7 feels about her, he would be happy to never see her again. So big deal really?

I guess its more about me than S7, do i want her name popping up on the phone every time S7 leaves it somewhere
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 09:55 PM
Is 7 too young an age to have a phone anyway?
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 10:03 PM
It is absolutely and we both recognise that, it was given to him because they werent able to see H because of covid. He doesnt take the phone with him anywhere, it just stays in his bedroom and he has some games on it.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Still not divorced - 10/19/21 11:52 PM
Then doesn’t OW messaging S7 cross the boundaries of why the phone was given in the first place?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Still not divorced - 10/20/21 12:48 AM
It's hard to say from the available info--"it was given to him because they weren't able to see H"--what did she agree to, S gets it during XH's custody time, or S gets it until he sees XH again? Did he or she set limits on who talks to S? If the situation will only last a few more days, I'd be tempted to let it go as a unique situation, but ensure S doesn't have a phone again for 3-5yrs so this isn't an issue again.

My XW and I get along swell, but our custody terms don't grant her access to the kids whenever she likes. The kids are allowed to access either of us whenever they like.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/20/21 06:52 AM
I truly done mind H and S7 wxchanging pictures etc. It is a unique situation, we are self isolating and because of concerns for H health he cant have them at the moment.
So i do see it as temporary, but the phone will probably hang about at home anyway. I dont want it to travel with S when he goes to H anyway. Of i need to know something about the children i ring H anyway. Im tempted to delete the message and be done with it. Surely with no response she wont harass him. If she continues then i will have to tell H that this phone business could only work for this specific situation anyway and can she stop contacting S7 please.
Posted By: Mumin Re: Still not divorced - 10/21/21 06:08 AM
To my understanding there are two issues here:
1) The phone. Which you seem to be fine with, in the specific situation.
Where I live it is fairly common for 7-8 yr olds to get their first phone. (Too early imo.)

2) OW "harassing S7". Have you spoken to S7 about it? How does he feel about her texts?
If he feels as you describe I would definitely talk to H about it if I was you. Perhaps talk to OW about it.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 10/21/21 07:09 AM
Thank you all

I absolutely agree 7 is too early for a mobile phone and we know that and so does S7. I have explained to him that the phone was given to him because he couldnt see H, so the phone will be disappearing once we are out of isolation and back from holiday.

Re OW, i asked S7 if he would ever txt with her and he said unlikely, he read her txt but didnt respond, so i deleted it and no further ones followed. I thin the topic is closed for the next 3/5 years until he get a mobile phone.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Still not divorced - 10/21/21 08:03 AM
Well handled GG, good stuff
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 11/08/21 08:42 PM
In having a hard time at the moment. And the chances are its because we had a whole months of being just me and the kids with no demands and minimal interaction with H.
And as soon as we were back from holiday, his messing around with schedules, promises made to kids, that i know nothing about, but require day swaps etc, booked time away that has not been coordinated and to too it all off not only did i have a bailiff show up at my house for his debt, but he also had a deep chat with S8 and apparently told him that he should try not saying that he wants to go home or that he misses me for a couple of weeks! Which even s8 thought was strange. They apparently sat him down for a meeting, H,S8 and OW and asked him what they can do to make things better for him, but all he wants is to spend time just his dad and him without OW, and dad seems to be unable to hear him at all, which just makes me sad for S8. He told OW during the convo that he doesnt like her and she cant help him, which i dont know what to make of it. Brave-yes, ok- i dont know, but very honest.
I just feel so worn down by the past week.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Still not divorced - 11/08/21 10:14 PM
Gigi,

I don't have much on the in debt part, but I can kind help with the kid in turmoil part. The plainest way I can say this is the fight for attention between S8 and OW are between them. I understand he's very young and this adjustment takes time, but you have to look at this from the reverse perspective. If you were dating right now and had a guy around would S8 be acting the exact same way? If the answer is most likely you're going to have to start working on letting this go. This isn't your battle to fight. And if you continue to take his "side" this is going to create issues when you're ready to move on and dip your toe into the dating pool. Among other things.

This is Dad's household now. He doesn't have to like it. He doesn't even have to like OW. He doesn't even have to like dad but he does have to accept that this is what dad's house is like and just because we don't like something doesn't mean we aren't obligated to it. In my state unless that kid is in jeopardy they aren't getting out of the visitation schedule until at least 12 if not later. Not liking something isn't a good enough excuse to stop face time with a parent. It's just not. Sure stbxh should be listening and trying to carve out alone time with S8, but the harder S8 pushes how much he'd rather be with you, he'd rather not be around OW, that he flat out doesn't like her the less likely it is that stbxh is going to give in to S8's demands. And if you were in stbxh shoes would you feel differently?

They did do the right thing, they sat down with him and asked him what they can do to make things better for him. S8 took that opportunity not to say it would be nice if I could get some one on one with dad, or anything else that they could accommodate him with, he took that opportunity to throw spite at OW. Not saying his feelings aren't valid, not saying she or stbxh didn't deserve that reaction, but I am saying they gave him and opening and he chose a fight instead. He's 8, that's kinda on stbxh for addressing this is a slightly too grown up matter for an 8yo, it really should've been a guided conversation not an open ended free for all, but at 8 while he doesn't have the impulse control to stop himself, he does know nice from mean and he picked mean.

Now just to be clear I'm not taking stbxh's side on any of this but I'm taking a 30,000 ft perspective so I have a bunch of questions: Is there a chance you're feeding into this? Are you keeping your distaste for OW and/or stbxh to a minimum around S8? Next is S8 in therapy at all? As S6 seems to be adjusting better with this have you considered putting him in therapy? Have you and H sat down with S8 and let him know that he doesn't dictate the visitation and that he doesn't dictate how either household is run? Not in an authoritarian way but just matter of factly? And I know things with stbxh are always kind of a mixed bag but do you think he could get on board with you for sitting down and having that kind of conversation? Have you guys considered family therapy to try to get through this? Are you in therapy right now? If you are has your IC offered you any assistance in ways to deal with S8 and to deal with your emotional turmoil watching S8's?

I've been doing this a long time. And I'm a stepchild, a step sister, a step mother, the mother to a child with a "step-mother." My kids are 19 and 17 and I've been split from my ex for 10 years my H has been split from his ex for 13 years. I'm asking all of this to kinda help you in the long run. Now you as his mom want to just take on all this turmoil for him. Trust me I feel that deep in my bones, but it's not yours to bear. It's yours to support his journey through this. That's it. And if you continue to bear the whole of this for him you will grow in resentment with OW and stbxh over things that are not yours to be resentful of. I'm sure they've given you plenty to be resentful of already. This is emotional bandwidth you don't need to expend. And this will create a huge block in being able to co-parent effectively in the future. And that's just the beginning my friend.

If S8 learns that you agree with his feelings, not support him processing those feelings, but truly agree with them he will learn to use that to his advantage. If he learns that you will give him special treatment because you feel bad that he has to go by Dad's and he hates it there he will use it to his advantage. If he learns that he can manipulate you with his tears and anger to pit you against his dad and OW he will use that to his advantage. If he learns he can pit you against his dad he will use it to his advantage. And looking at that sweet little 8yo old face I'm sure that's very, very hard to believe. I'm sure it's nearly impossible to think of that sweet boy being manipulative and opportunist like that but tweens and teens will try you in ways you can't even begin to fathom and if you give him openings now to use the separation and D as leeway in his behavior or leverage he will latch on to that. I know you desperately want to be his soft place to fall in this, but you are going to have to find a place where you are soft but strong. You'll like have to have a united from with stbxh even if you don't want to. You're likely going to have to be a little tough with him when he's melting down about this stuff. And none of it will be easy but your sanity now and in the future depends on it.
Posted By: OnlyBent Re: Still not divorced - 11/09/21 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by Gigi123
In having a hard time at the moment. And the chances are its because we had a whole months of being just me and the kids with no demands and minimal interaction with H.
And as soon as we were back from holiday, his messing around with schedules, promises made to kids, that i know nothing about, but require day swaps etc, booked time away that has not been coordinated and to too it all off not only did i have a bailiff show up at my house for his debt, but he also had a deep chat with S8 and apparently told him that he should try not saying that he wants to go home or that he misses me for a couple of weeks! Which even s8 thought was strange. They apparently sat him down for a meeting, H,S8 and OW and asked him what they can do to make things better for him, but all he wants is to spend time just his dad and him without OW, and dad seems to be unable to hear him at all, which just makes me sad for S8. He told OW during the convo that he doesnt like her and she cant help him, which i dont know what to make of it. Brave-yes, ok- i dont know, but very honest.
I just feel so worn down by the past week.

Hey Gigi, sorry to hear that you're struggling at the moment, it sounds like a tough situation. As WF has said, I think you'll find peace if you focus on what you can, and is, in your control. Be the rock for S8 and the rest will take care of itself.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 11/09/21 10:13 PM
Thanks WF, i always read your posts, i mainly agree with them. But i wanted to sit on this one for a bit.
Would S8 feel the same if i dates someone? I think theres a huge difference between dating and living with someone, and the dating part he would be ok with i think, providing we still had time just the two/three of us. But im guessing here, we will only know when it happens. At this stage speculation. I do see your point about not my battle, my frustration is due to me picking up the pieces.


Would i feel different to STBXH about S8 demands? I would as they arent really demands to me.
An ex colleague of mine gave me some advice when i was pregnant, and it was so simple i totally took it for granted. It was “know your own child” S8 is very wise for his age, like an old soul and there are certain things that are important to him and he is very different to S6, so knowing that i have no problem adjusting. But i see your point, not my battle and noone asked for my opinion. This is on dad. With S8 the easiest thing would be to listen to him, consider his feelings and over time he will actually reach out himself. Yes it does take patience and some insight. And it took me time to build a trusting relationship with him too.


He does know whats mean, i wasnt there, i cant comment, this is what S8 remembers, most of it he doesnt and he said there were some long words he didnt really understand. I can only imagine he felt cornered, because H and him simply dont talk about feelings and previously when S8 attempted he was shut down. I cant imagine it was an inviting convo. Should he have said that, probably not, but for some reason he felt he needed to, which is very unlike him. He is incredibly obedient and will just stay quiet in these situations.



I want to answer all your questions, to try and paint the picture.

s there a chance you're feeding into this? I think if i was both kids would be the same, i never bring uo OW unless they do. To be fair i have only learnt about his dislike in the last couple of month, he has previously said she is ok.

Are you keeping your distaste for OW and/or stbxh to a minimum around S8? I dont show any distate for either, OW we dont talk about unless she comes up and i can ask if all is good there.
Re H there are so many times where i could have said something, but i dont, i have people to talk to when i feel frustrated with him, so the kids dont get to hear any of that.

Next is S8 in therapy at all? No, he isnt, but im considering it, i cant do it without h consent obviously.

As S6 seems to be adjusting better with this have you considered putting him in therapy? S6 has his own issues, but he is younger and with having ADHD his mind is constantly racing so he doesnt get to hung up on any of this.

Have you and H sat down with S8 and let him know that he doesn't dictate the visitation and that he doesn't dictate how either household is run? Not in an authoritarian way but just matter of factly? And I know things with stbxh are always kind of a mixed bag but do you think he could get on board with you for sitting down and having that kind of conversation? Have you guys considered family therapy to try to get through this? Are you in therapy right now? If you are has your IC offered you any assistance in ways to deal with S8 and to deal with your emotional turmoil watching S8's?

You will see a pattern through the whole story, he barely engages, only when he wants to, we couldnt agree on anything, still cant, he didn't want mediation either to help. I really dont know what needs to happen for him to consider sitting down let alone going to family therapy. I would be open to doing that, to help S8 and it might be good for all of us anyway. Every time i have suggested doing something as co parents, he might agree in words, but when it comes to outting things in practice, it never happens. We are meant to go for a coffee to discuss this, but im yet to hear back from him about dates and times.


I have spent an hour putting S8 to bed, he was upset, basically the convo that H had with him made S8 want to go there less now. And im exhausted of constantly picking up this mess. I just think its unfair on me, on S8 and S6. H is also awaiting some news re his health, so im reluctant to stir anything up, as he is unlikely to be in the mindset to resolve positively.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 11/09/21 10:15 PM
Thanks OB, its just frustrating i guess, this is exactly what i did today, he needed my support, i listened and validated, held him tight and that was all i could do. There was nothing to discuss.
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Still not divorced - 11/09/21 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Gigi123
Next is S8 in therapy at all? No, he isnt, but im considering it, i cant do it without h consent obviously.
Do you need his consent to take your son to a medical professional? In the US, even when I had primary custody, my XW was free to do so. By 2021, you'd think most countries would consider mental health as important as physical health. I'm sorry to hear your S8 is struggling to adjust that OW is now part of XH's home now, and he doesn't have a say in that or his visitation. Change is hard. I definitely stress when my kids are stressed. Sending hugs and well-wishes your way.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Still not divorced - 11/10/21 03:14 PM
Gigi,

Just a couple of clarifications. I could see that this convo about what can be done to help S8 seemed a little age inappropriate but now with a little more info it seems like they genuinely thought they were talking to a teenager, and it's pretty clear why S8 got mad instead of sad. I'm glad he spoke his truth in that moment.

I mostly wanted to help you understand that picking up the pieces isn't entirely your job here. S8 is going to have to learn how to cope. He's going to need to gain coping skills with this because dad and OW aren't going anywhere. And if this hurts you so badly to see him like this you will continue to do the coping for him. Which serves no one. Which is why I'm pushing therapy.

S8 dumping all of this on OW is doing what a lot of LBS do and a lot of kids from divorced homes do. Blame the interloper. Now OW may be a dumpster fire of a human being. Or she's a pretty nice person with a terrible picker, like the rest of us. But his anger toward her 1) doesn't change his situation 2) is being directed at the wrong person 3) is giving him and embodiment to his struggles with the split and she is going to get a lot more vitriol that she deserves because of that. Therapy is super important so he can name and place his issues. So he can learn to cope. So he can learn to effectively detach from stbxh in the best way a kid can and so you don't have to do the heavy lifting here.

I'm with CW, and honestly I don't see how stbxh could refuse. But if that's the case I'd frame it around the problems in their home, not that they are the problem but that he's clearly not adjusting well, that him calling and crying to come home is stressful for you and you want his time over there to just be their time, and S6 is doing fine so clearly this is necessary. Doesn't matter if it's true, just matters that he hears what he wants to here to get on board. What happens once S8's in therapy even if it's a "I hate OW and I hate dad" session every time that's none of stbxh's concern. Just need to get him to cosign on the starting therapy part.

I spent years co-parenting with a useless other part, and parenting next to another totally dysfunctional co-parenting relationship with my H and his ex. I can spin just about anything into something palatable for the useless, selfish or not so sane. And if necessary make them think it was their idea. If you need to find words to "talk" H into getting on board with this when the timing is right I can help.

Next I never caught if you're in therapy. Are you? If you're not I strongly suggest you get into IC. You need support through this. You need to be able to off load and you need a sounding board to assist you in ways to support you're kiddo without doing the heavy lifting for him.

You are doing what a lot of LBW's do and are carrying a burden because no one else is there to do the heavy lifting. And to be honest, the pretty common secondary reason that there isn't an LBS around here who isn't happy to find one more thing that the WAS/WS has left for them to do on their own without any assistance. But this burden carrying is something that took me a really, really long time to understand fully. I had to learn it's not our job to fix everything for everybody. Things beyond our scope need to be outsourced. And things within our scope don't always need to be done by us. Fixing, and the psychological relief it provides a lot of us, especially for those of us who've been conditioned to fix via emotional abuse, being on over do-er, control issues, whatever, is not the selfless act that we like to believe it is. More often than not fixing is completely and totally selfish. And when we try to fix everything for our kids it can distort their version of reality, it can rob them of natural consequences, it can rob them of learning coping skills in a safe controlled environment. Sometimes fixing makes things worse in the long run.

All of this is a super hard pill to swallow. And lord knows none of this is resolved overnight. It's a process and a journey. Just know you are strong enough to carry this until you don't have to. And you're kind enough to do it all with grace. But please try to keep in mind here the best you can do to help S8 and S6 and you is get the help S8 and you need in therapy.
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 11/17/21 06:19 PM
Hi WF

Im really grateful for your insight, i needed to sit on this for a bit, I understand logically that this is right, however my emotions at times overwhelm me, particularly when my children get really upset.
I agree that s8 need to be able to cope, and whilst OW might disappear over time his dad will always be there. He might have Loads of other partners that he will choose to introduce to the kids.

I dont know anything about OW besides the fact that she decided to sleep with her boss who is a married man….dont think its someone i want to know about either way.

s8 brought up the meeting that took place himself the other day and said that he felt uncomfortable and he didnt want to say anything at all, he felt they spoke to him like he was an adult and he couldn’t understand what dad meant. He also said that he couldn't say what he wanted because she was there. I get it, if i was sat in front of a person i dont consider close i wouldn't want to talk about my feelings, unless it was a therapist of course!

Thank you WF when we actually get to have a convo i might come back for some words! At the moment its radiosilence, which is pretty normal as soon as we hit a subject that he doesnt want to discuss.

I was in therapy when this all happened and it helped immensely to be able to concentrate on my own life, i felt good about my plans, work, being able to gain stability without a partner present. And things even seemed ok with the kids,they were sad and angry at times, but overall it was ok, manageable and i didnt feel it was disrupting my own emotional stability.

I also see issue with S6 and i cant help but think that his adhd is worsened but all of this.

I actually prefer for him not to be involved at all, because trying to get him engaged is hard work that i could do without, being a single parent is difficult enough as it is.

When we spoke a couple of weeks ago, he sort of started a relationship covno, where he said he basically will never forgive me for letting us down and he will have to carry this for the rest of his life. I thought it was odd to go there after 20 months, but i guess he hasnt processed things.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Still not divorced - 11/18/21 12:46 PM
Gigi, you have come so far since all of this started. It is good to see you grow, become stronger, and be able to stand on your own so well. Great job, I feel you have put in a lot of hard work and you have been able to move forward pretty well. Plus you now seem to be able to deal with the stresses and problems really well. I love that you sat on this for a bit. Shows that you are in control of your emotions and not being reactive. So many LBSs cut their own legs out from under themselves by being too impulsive and reactive.

Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Gigi123 Re: Still not divorced - 11/21/21 02:46 PM
Hey Steve

Things are well though, work is busy, i can earn a bit more by doinh additional hours on the days boys are with H. I cant say GAL on my own is excessive, bit i always take the time to look after myself and sometimes it means being on my own and listening to some good music, a podcast or a lecture. I do miss companionship, but the thought of dating isnt appealing at all at the moment.
I dont really know what do people feel or at shat stage do you think you are ready to let someone into your life and eventually into your children's lives.

H and I continue having disagreements about things, but they dont affect me much, i meant its irritating, but it doesnt throw my day or ruin my mood for a week. I need about 20 minutes or so, to just calm my emotions a bit and i get on with my day. I realised some ago that i dont hold a grudge against him, ive forgiven him and i really judge him by his actions now and he can be a right irritant.
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