Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: Navarro Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 01:16 AM
My first thread! Im not sure how this all works. I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! However, this may be my first post but this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful. It took me so long to post because honestly I didnt really think a MLC was real nor did I believe my spouse was old enough to actually be in the middle of one. It took a lot of convincing for me to realize it, address it, and you all have given me the insight to work with it. Now with all of that said I have an extra long story but I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance to see it through. My spouse is nearing the end (I know everyone thinks that) and trust me I did everything wrong in the beginning but theres a change. Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression. There is no relationship talk (we do better without that) but I feel like were progressing. Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it? Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk? Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? So many questions?
Posted By: Cadet Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 02:07 PM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: Cadet Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
How do I post??? It shows I have messages but I cant check them🙈


Looks like you got the hang of it, you will be on moderation for a few days so have some patience.
The UBB software is not notifying us the way it used to so we have to manually check that someone has posted,
and that may not work out to be fast.

Keep posting
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
My first thread! Im not sure how this all works. I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! However, this may be my first post but this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful. It took me so long to post because honestly I didnt really think a MLC was real nor did I believe my spouse was old enough to actually be in the middle of one. It took a lot of convincing for me to realize it, address it, and you all have given me the insight to work with it. Now with all of that said I have an extra long story but I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance to see it through. My spouse is nearing the end (I know everyone thinks that) and trust me I did everything wrong in the beginning but theres a change. Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression. There is no relationship talk (we do better without that) but I feel like were progressing. Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it? Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk? Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? So many questions?


Hi Navarro, welcome to posting on the forum (since you've been here lurking for so long).

I'll try to answer your questions:

"Can anyone tell me if this is the beginning of the end of the crisis?"
No. No one can tell you that. What we can tell you is that these kinds of situations can last a few months, up to a few years. Every sitch is different. More than likely if you injected your WAS with truth serum he couldn't even tell you if it is the beginning or the end.

"Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it?"
No. It will go at its own pace. What you can be doing is things to progress yourself. That is what DB is all about. Progressing you. Sometimes the MR comes along for the ride. Some people call this "cookie cutter" advice. I call it simplifying a more complex process so a new LBS can understand it at a high-level. GAL. 180s (self-improvements). Detachment. Becoming a spouse that only a fool would leave! One of the best pieces advice I got in my sitch was too take the focus off of my W and onto me!

"Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk?"
One of the first rules of DBing is: Do not start R talks. Avoid them at all costs. If he starts one, listen and validate, and end it as soon as possible. If he starts wanting to work on the MR you will know it and then an R talk can be had. But not until he starts wanting to work on the MR.

"Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation?"
NO! We've seen reconciliations after a D, and several years afterward. It is never too late until YOU decide it is. Many LBSs, once they've moved forward with their lives, see going back to an R with the X is a huge step back.

"So many questions?"
We all had them! Ask away!
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 04:50 PM
Hey Navarro,

I don't think anyone can truly say if this is the beginning of the end. And even then, you putting that expectation only sets you up for pain. I think that you should never make assumptions, and this would be a big assumptions. Time will tell.

I don't think you are too far out to reconcile, but again don't make assumptions and don't set expectations.

Not getting stuck in the friend zone is important, what actions have you been taking that show you aren't in the friend zone?
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
My first thread!...I feel like Ive been apart of this group for almost two years. Im a lurker! ...this forum has helped in my journey tremendously and I am beyond grateful...... I am very confused on where my spouses stage actually is and I need guidance.....


Glad you posted. You like most of us start out by looking at our spouse and trying to determine if progress is being made. I strongly suggest that you shift your measuring stick to evaluating yourself. How you behave. How you interact. How you communicate. Are you making positive changes in those areas. Things like that.


This is a save your marriage website, so I assume your goal is to reattract your H.


You didn't mention kids. Do you have any? if so, ages? Current parenting arrangements?

What about you and H age? How long married?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Well here goes.... - 06/16/21 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
Its been 3 years in October, has it been too long for reconciliation? Can you tell me if I can be doing anything more to progress it?

Well, what 180s have you made and been consistent at for at least one year? What GAL have you been doing? What boundaries did you enforce? 3yrs means time to make and demo changes. (:

Originally Posted by Navarro
Can you tell me if I am remaining in the friend zone if I dont encourage relationship talk?

Initiating R talks rarely helps.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Theres a kindness in his voice, calmness with stability, a smile on his face occasionally, lots of communication, hes beginning to enjoy leisure activities, and he is beginning to return to the man I once knew. There is still separation, secrets, lots of drinking, times of anger, depression is still there some, and short times of withdrawing from me. This change in him happened around December 2020 and after major major depression.

Navarro, it's hard to say. I once emerged from a dark place and part of the process was ending a long-term relationship. When they want back in, it tends to be obvious. Has he been abusive? Did he ever cheat before this?
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/17/21 07:23 AM
Omg thank you all so much for responding!!!! I probably blew you guys up with so many posts in so many different places🙈. I was trying to be short and simple but wow do I have so much to say and ask!

So here goes- I have been married for 18 years and I have 2 very active teenage children. In may of 2018 my husband just stopped coming home at night. He would drag in about 3 or 4am with no explanation what so ever. In the beginning I was confused but not overly concerned. Hes always been a bit of a wild child and boundary pusher. Entire situation escalated and by October I started checking phone record and I hired a PI. Found out nothing much of real importance except he was saying at the bar til 2am with his secretary. Phone records show an abundance of texts to her and it all spiraled in October 2018. I told him either she went or he went and he left. He was unhappy at home long before the EA began with her. She isnt the cause, she isnt the effect. She is young, she is fun, and she wants to drink at the bar with him every night, why not? I had rules, obligations, and priorities. She was everything that I wasnt. By the time I realized there was an issue it was too far gone. Maybe Im naive and Im not convinced that its just an EA but thats my opinion on it. Nothing surprises me at this point tho! First year gone I did everything wrong! I begged, pleaded, and bargained with the devil basically. Oh and did he hate me. He was rebellious, blamed everything on me, and he completely detached. About a year into it I read an article randomly about an MLC and it was mind blowing to me. It really opened my eyes and I began doing a lot of research on it. I think Ive read very article on this forum, twice!! It was my life word for word! With each stage I came to this forum and creeped insight on how to handle situations and gather guidance. I started detaching (but still remaining somewhat attached) after the first year or so and started handling the spewing a bit differently. Things started slowly to get better. There has never been a time through the crisis that he has completely cut off communication. When I began detaching then he opened the lines of communication. It was slow progress in the beginning. Maybe a text or two a day but for the last 8 months or so he has sent up to 50-100 texts a day sometimes.
I noticed in mid October his depression was extreme!!! To the point of crying when he drove up to the house for no reason at all. He poured himself into work, spent a lot of time alone, and drinking. By December and January I started noticing him coming around more often, a genuine smile, he started back doing more activities with the kids, becoming more calm when Im around, actually making commitments that he said he would, he was actually trying for the first time in 2 1/2 years. Our conversations have become better. He is opening up to me more. In an odd way he tells me where he is and what hes doing and who he is with. We still do not speak of our relationship though. I dropped that convo when I detached. Its not been brought up since. In the beginning he would always say to me I dont know how to fix it. I love you and only you. Its always been you. He opens up to me when hes been drinking and tells me things like hes embarrassed of his life and he could have anything but has nothing. I also know he blames me for his lifes problems. He got drunk a few months ago and texted me I love you and I wanna be with you. Ive not mentioned it since to him. He doesnt want me to think that soberly! Thats the first time since he left that hes said one positive thing to me about returning. I do feel like theres forward movement and consistent but sometimes I think is there really a chance after 3 years?? Im healing a lot so if I am then how does he feel? Im to a point where I expect the worst but hope for the best.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/17/21 07:38 AM
Omg thank you all so much for responding!!!! I probably blew you guys up with so many posts in so many different places🙈. I was trying to be short and simple but wow do I have so much to say and ask!

So here goes- I have been married for 18 years and I have 2 very active teenage children. My husband and I are both 40. The kids are great! I have them 95 percent of the time. Weve actually never had an argument over the kids. We didnt want to disrupt their lives so we deal with our own misery and the better we handle it then the less it effects them. We felt it was better for them to stay in their home and not be disrupted. Ive been a stay at home mom all their lives and done the majority of the parenting anyway so its been a little different for them but very minimal. I preach to them their dad is a superhero and he preaches to them that I am Wonder Woman so were still very encouraging with each other. I would like to think were both very good parents despite our hardships. We are still a family unit when it comes to the kids. In may of 2018 my husband just stopped coming home at night. He would drag in about 3 or 4am with no explanation what so ever. In the beginning I was confused but not overly concerned. Hes always been a bit of a wild child and boundary pusher. Entire situation escalated and by October I started checking phone record and I hired a PI. Found out nothing much of real importance except he was saying at the bar til 2am with his secretary. Phone records show an abundance of texts to her and it all spiraled in October 2018. I told him either she went or he went and he left. He was unhappy at home long before the EA began with her. She isnt the cause, she isnt the effect. She is young, she is fun, and she wants to drink at the bar with him every night, why not? I had rules, obligations, and priorities. She was everything that I wasnt. By the time I realized there was an issue it was too far gone. Maybe Im naive and Im not convinced that its just an EA but thats my opinion on it. Nothing surprises me at this point tho! First year gone I did everything wrong! I begged, pleaded, and bargained with the devil basically. Oh and did he hate me. He was rebellious, blamed everything on me, and he completely detached. About a year into it I read an article randomly about an MLC and it was mind blowing to me. It really opened my eyes and I began doing a lot of research on it. I think Ive read very article on this forum, twice!! It was my life word for word! With each stage I came to this forum and creeped insight on how to handle situations and gather guidance. I started detaching (but still remaining somewhat attached) after the first year or so and started handling the spewing a bit differently. Things started slowly to get better. There has never been a time through the crisis that he has completely cut off communication. When I began detaching then he opened the lines of communication. It was slow progress in the beginning. Maybe a text or two a day but for the last 8 months or so he has sent up to 50-100 texts a day sometimes.
I noticed in mid October his depression was extreme!!! To the point of crying when he drove up to the house for no reason at all. He poured himself into work, spent a lot of time alone, and drinking. By December and January I started noticing him coming around more often, a genuine smile, he started back doing more activities with the kids, becoming more calm when Im around, actually making commitments that he said he would, he was actually trying for the first time in 2 1/2 years. Our conversations have become better. He is opening up to me more. In an odd way he tells me where he is and what hes doing and who he is with. We still do not speak of our relationship though. I dropped that convo when I detached. Its not been brought up since. In the beginning he would always say to me I dont know how to fix it. I love you and only you. Its always been you. He opens up to me when hes been drinking and tells me things like hes embarrassed of his life and he could have anything but has nothing. I also know he blames me for his lifes problems. He got drunk a few months ago and texted me I love you and I wanna be with you. Ive not mentioned it since to him. He doesnt want me to think that soberly! Thats the first time since he left that hes said one positive thing to me about returning. I do feel like theres forward movement and consistent but sometimes I think is there really a chance after 3 years?? Im healing a lot so if I am then how does he feel? Im to a point where I expect the worst but hope for the best.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/17/21 08:02 AM
Never any abuse! Yes, he cheated before. I think thats probably where the entire thing began at. In 2016 we arrived home from family vacay in Hawaii and I received a call from a man saying that my hubby had been meeting up with his his stripper wife for the last few years. I was completely blown away!! I confronted, he denied, and then the truth finally came out. I believe thats the reason for the onset of the crisis. I told him to leave and he left but he slept in the back seat of his pick up every night for 3 months until I decided I was ready to forgive him. He came back but it was pure torture for him til he left with the crisis. We had some moments of good times but I never actually forgave him the way I should have. I threw her up at him at any chance given. I think thats what caused him to spiral out of control. We should have went to counseling or something. I will add that I havent mentioned her name in 3 years now. I may be too late for forgiveness now tho😔. He tried to stick it out but I wouldnt allow it. I had a really hard time getting over that. It took me loosing him to forgive him. If that makes any sense at all? I think thats the entire reason for the crisis! I think he just thought I would never look at him the same no matter how hard he tried. Now he can do whatever he wants with no repercussions! I just smile and and agree with everything.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/17/21 08:29 AM
Hmmm also when you emerged from the dark place did you know instantly that you needed to end the relationship to move forward with your progress? Thats really exactly what is on my mind. He seems to be getting better finally and I read mostly where the spouses have this waking up from the fog experience where they feel total remorse and want to reconcile. I do not feel like that is my situation! My husband likes his freedom and hes enjoying every moment of it but there is absolutely not one word of working on the marriage. I do think he thinks is a given since hes putting out some effort by opening up communication. There was a time of silence and no depth to conversations. We are still romantically active (if thats how you say it) so I dont think Im completely in the friend zone but I want more! I want a relationship but not at the expense of asking for one. I made a vow to not speak of commitment with him again. I know its a lot harder to face a relationship thats had failures then it is to start a new one with someone else😕
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/17/21 03:37 PM
Thank you so much for responding!!! Yes I completely and totally want to save my marriage. I expect the worst but hope for the best. I have detached with still remaining attached. If that makes any sense🤔. I believe that is where the growth has came from. I stopped relationship talks completely, no longer speak of the past, and Ive made a lot of independent growth. I flipped a switch somewhere along the way (after recognizing the MLC & reading these forums) and I began to control my actions and emotions. The apology from him that I expected for so long changed into me validating him, encouraging him, excepting everything (that one was the hardest), and then realizing I have no control and letting God guide the journey. I was never really able to set boundaries just ones thats Ive implemented from detachment. I didnt realize it was a crisis until after replay had almost ended. Boundaries would have helped tremendously back then😕 The changes he is making are ones that he has chosen to make. He made a comment back in November stating you know I havent been myself lately. He is slowly getting better. We have began doing more things as a family unit. We never have relationship talks but drinking occasionally (depending on his moods) he will text something about our relationship. I get the feeling that he doesnt want to commit but he doesnt want to let me go either. I really dont think he knows what he wants! I know it takes a lot more to come back to a relationship with failures then it does to start a new exciting relationship. I do ok though. I have my kids and we make it pretty good. He doesnt bring my only happiness, I create my own. I do desperately want him to return though because I do feel like he completes my life.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 06/18/21 03:27 AM
What Gals have I been doing?
Well I mentioned that my kids are very active teenagers and their not yet driving age. They both do all sporting activities year round and they do them at a highly competitive level. We practice at minimum 4 nights a week until after 10pm and then most weekends are spent with their sporting events. We do most weekends as a family with all four of us together. My main priority in life right now is focused on them and I have them about 98 percent of the time. When they are in school I do get out and have lunch with friends, shop, go to the spa, and I have went on a few girls weekend trips. I dont have a lot of extra down time to do me time things but I am ok with that. I think he prefers it this way so he knows Im not doing anything else to. I dont think too much into that these days though. I use to want him to think I really had something else going and wonder where I was but Im so far past that these days! Maybe he would find me more attractive if he thought I was out all hours of the night at the bar but Im past trying to pretend Im doing something that Im not. I do the same things I did when he was here living with me and that is try to make our kids life as much fun and productive as possible.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Well here goes.... - 06/18/21 06:45 PM
So how can we help?
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Well here goes.... - 06/21/21 07:43 PM
Hi Navarro, please chime in if you're still here. I know the "moderation" period where you have to wait for your messages to appear can be annoying. Just wanted to be sure you're here before writing more. (:
Posted By: Cadet Re: Well here goes.... - 06/21/21 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Navarro, please chime in if you're still here. I know the "moderation" period where you have to wait for your messages to appear can be annoying. Just wanted to be sure you're here before writing more. (:


She is off moderation
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 06/22/21 01:06 PM
Navarro, hoping you are still reading. An update on your sitch would be good to hear.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Well here goes.... - 06/22/21 05:02 PM
Navarro,

Did I miss whether you're separated or not? Did you H move out? Sounded earlier like he's living there and just coming home at all hours and you're doing the family thing on weekends, but then later sounded like he's not in the house?

Originally Posted by Navarro
What Gals have I been doing?
Well I mentioned that my kids are very active teenagers and their not yet driving age. They both do all sporting activities year round and they do them at a highly competitive level. We practice at minimum 4 nights a week until after 10pm and then most weekends are spent with their sporting events. We do most weekends as a family with all four of us together. My main priority in life right now is focused on them and I have them about 98 percent of the time.

Great to make your kids a priority, but important to take time for yourself as well. Sounds like you don't have much time to work on yourself or GAL between the kids and playing family on weekends. Shouldn't he share in the responsibilities of getting kids to activities?

Originally Posted by Navarro
When they are in school I do get out and have lunch with friends, shop, go to the spa, and I have went on a few girls weekend trips. I dont have a lot of extra down time to do me time things but I am ok with that. I think he prefers it this way so he knows Im not doing anything else to. I dont think too much into that these days though. I use to want him to think I really had something else going and wonder where I was but Im so far past that these days!

You do it for you - it'll make you more happy, well-rounded...etc. - but he'll notice the difference as well. Lunch, shopping, and spa are all good and I'm sure help but it'd be even better to branch out and try new activities, meet new people, and make new friends.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Maybe he would find me more attractive if he thought I was out all hours of the night at the bar but Im past trying to pretend Im doing something that Im not. I do the same things I did when he was here living with me and that is try to make our kids life as much fun and productive as possible.

It doesn't have to be getting drunk at a bar every night. It could be any activity that gets you out, doing something new you enjoy, and preferably meeting new people and friends. A new hobby would spark an interest / excitement in you, especially an active one that would improve your physical appearance and give you more confidence.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 06/22/21 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Navarro
Maybe he would find me more attractive if he thought I was out all hours of the night at the bar but Im past trying to pretend Im doing something that Im not. I do the same things I did when he was here living with me and that is try to make our kids life as much fun and productive as possible.

Originally Posted by BL42

It doesn't have to be getting drunk at a bar every night. It could be any activity that gets you out, doing something new you enjoy, and preferably meeting new people and friends. A new hobby would spark an interest / excitement in you, especially an active one that would improve your physical appearance and give you more confidence.



And then avoid giving him answers. "Where'd you go the other night." "Out." "Who were you with?" "Friends."

Remember, he has fired you as his wife. You no longer need to play that role with him. A H can ask his W where she was and expect an answer. But he can't fire you as his W and then expect you to continue being his W.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 07/24/21 01:17 PM
Thank you all so much for listening and responding. I watched this for a while but didnt see any responses so I went back to everyone elses threads. I just happen to look back this morning and noticed your responses today. Thank you!!!!
He does not live in the home. He began staying out all night in June 2018 then in October 2018 I ask him to either commit back to the marriage or leave. He left!
Update- I took some advice of yours and I have began venturing out a little more on my own and have gained a little more independence. It feels good! I even took a girls trip to the Bahamas last month. Things with him seem to be the same but slightly different to. He has been a bit more withdrawn lately. For the first time in 3 years he has some personal recognition. He has sent messages Im so lost and you do know I liked my old life right. He took the kids to a place we use to go a few weekends ago and he sent a message that said this makes me sad not happy. Oddly enough there has actually been some genuine affection from him also. Ive not had that in 3 years!!! Dont worry- Im not overly excited about it, its nice but it mostly scares me. He told me that I looked pretty last week. I about fell over (literally)!! He seems to be very open with me and we have lots of communication. He has began having lots of trouble sleeping and he has poured himself into work lately. He has always been active with the kids but seems to be even more lately.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 07/24/21 03:23 PM
Great update. Good to hear from you. It sounds like good progress, so now is the time to double down on the DBing, not ease up. Lots of false starts when it comes to WASs, usually because the LBS is all to eager to accept then back open armed. Make him with for it.

I'm the meantime you double down on GAL, 180s, and being detached.

You've got this!
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 07/25/21 05:08 AM
Thank you so much for the response! I have seen it so easily today. I watched for days on this thread and saw nothing new. I guess I just assumed that it wasnt seen or posted. I know I have a long way to go but things sure have my head spinning. Ive never been at a loss for words but I am speechless. Ive became so regular at what not to say that Ive forgotten how to respond to him. He quoted again tonight in a message I sure miss my old life and I would have never left to begin with if I hadnt been hurting. Hes made that same comment 3 times this week. Something is happening and it seems to be happening fast. He is beginning to hold some recognition and hes also beginning to speak openly about it. He is becoming productive. These are things Ive not seen in so so long. Its like a switch has flipped. Not sure here its going but I am hopeful that I have a positive journey ahead. Thank you again for your responses. I will post more now that I know my posts are being seen 🤗. Thank you!!!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 07/25/21 05:49 PM
Remember, do not get over zealous. He's like a scared animal right now that is starting to trust being near you. But any sudden movements could send him running. He could also just be temp checking you now that your started DBing. Lots of LBSs will try to keep you from detaching, they don't like the loss of control feeling that gives them.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 07/25/21 08:16 PM
Do they know deep inside which direction they are going? I get the feeling that he knows which direction he is going but he chooses not to tell me. Ive often wondered if hes not telling me because he wants me to wait here I til he is fully over me then he will cut me loose in the end. Another part of me feels like theres no way he would waste so much energy with 300 texts a day if there wasnt genuine effort? Some days I dont even think about that stuff and other it replays in my head. Today is one of those days.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 07/26/21 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
Do they know deep inside which direction they are going?


Many do not. But it is unimportant. No matter what game he is or isn't playing, it doesn't change what you should be doing.

Originally Posted by Navarro

I get the feeling that he knows which direction he is going but he chooses not to tell me. Ive often wondered if hes not telling me because he wants me to wait here I til he is fully over me then he will cut me loose in the end.


I'll repeat: "No matter what game he is or isn't playing, it doesn't change what you should be doing."

Originally Posted by Navarro

Another part of me feels like theres no way he would waste so much energy with 300 texts a day if there wasnt genuine effort? Some days I dont even think about that stuff and other it replays in my head. Today is one of those days.


Navarro, you are looking for logic in your sitch to put importance on things. You cannot use logic with WASs in general, and especially WSs!! They are the most illogical creatures on planet Earth. His 300 texts a day might be genuine. Or it might be to get you to wait here until he is fully over you and then he will cut you loose.

The good news?

I repeat: No matter what game he is or isn't playing, it doesn't change what you should be doing.

Navarro, the emotional roller-coaster is a real thing that LBSs go through. That is what you are experiencing. But no matter what his intent is or isn't, you still focus on yourself, focus off of him. GAL as much as humanly possible. Keep becoming the person only a fool would leave (180s, self-improvements), and continue to work on being emotionally detached. He'll either want to R at some point, or he will continue to walkaway, you have no control over that. But DBing gives you the best chance.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Well here goes.... - 07/26/21 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
I watched for days on this thread and saw nothing new. I guess I just assumed that it wasnt seen or posted.
I believe the moderators review your posts and then after a certain number of posts, you get off moderation and your posts will appear immediately.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 02:41 AM
Ok I’m really bad at this! I can’t figure out how it takes me so long to see a response. I’m on here daily and I look all the time but somehow I can’t find them. Don’t give up on me!! I’m still here and I’m still trying to figure this out. Thank you so much for your kindness and responses.
I have an update!! A really good one to! So on my last thread I mentioned that he was beginning to mention a few things about seeing his life as “old and new”. Well since then I believe he has came forward a bit. My H has always been a man of few words so when he spoke anything at all that means more then what I can express. I was very confused in my last post and honestly I was a little down to. The last 4 weeks has brought new energy and a new hope to my world. He began opening up a lot more, expressed there had been no “other person throughout our entire separation, and that he wasn’t well or he would have never left to begin with. It was almost like a confession of sorts. Then reconnection with everything began!! He is showing affection towards me, he is becoming active in the community that he abandon so quickly in replay, he is speaking with influences and confidence, he’s quit drinking, and he told me……..He has tried to come home twice now!!! He has began to work on our place (something he hasn’t touched in 3 years, he is calling “my” house “our” home again, and I wake up every morning to I love you messages. Bam just like that! He is allowing me to have a bit more influence in his life. We have 2 children and in the beginning he chose one to spew towards (the one more like me) and the other was his side kick that did not wrong. He’s working towards reconnecting more with them both now and mending the gap with the one he turned away from. Has anyone ever heard of them doing that, picking one to draw closer to in the crisis? Anyway, I know I’m a long way from the finish line but I feel a lot closer then I was yesterday.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by Navarro
I have an update!! A really good one to! So on my last thread I mentioned that he was beginning to mention a few things about seeing his life as “old and new”. Well since then I believe he has came forward a bit.

If you are emotionally stable and able to cope with this, then let him come forward a bit. Read "The Lighthouse" in the newcomer post.

Originally Posted by Navarro
My H has always been a man of few words so when he spoke anything at all that means more then what I can express. I was very confused in my last post and honestly I was a little down to. The last 4 weeks has brought new energy and a new hope to my world. He began opening up a lot more, expressed there had been no “other person throughout our entire separation, and that he wasn’t well or he would have never left to begin with.

Believe none of what they say.

Originally Posted by Navarro
It was almost like a confession of sorts. Then reconnection with everything began!! He is showing affection towards me, he is becoming active in the community that he abandon so quickly in replay, he is speaking with influences and confidence, he’s quit drinking, and he told me……..He has tried to come home twice now!!! He has began to work on our place (something he hasn’t touched in 3 years, he is calling “my” house “our” home again, and I wake up every morning to I love you messages.

What is the timeline for these new changes? I would be VERY cautious. I've experienced this off and on for 3 years. It was my XH trying to nice his way to keeping up his appearance of being a good guy. If he continues these actions over a long period of time, that would be different, but still be cautious.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Bam just like that! He is allowing me to have a bit more influence in his life. We have 2 children and in the beginning he chose one to spew towards (the one more like me) and the other was his side kick that did not wrong. He’s working towards reconnecting more with them both now and mending the gap with the one he turned away from. Has anyone ever heard of them doing that, picking one to draw closer to in the crisis? Anyway, I know I’m a long way from the finish line but I feel a lot closer then I was yesterday.

I might seem cruel and I don't intend to be, but I want to caution you about feeling that you are close to any sort of finish line. The finish line is when you are ok no matter what. If you tie your "okay" to his actions, feelings, etc, then you are setting yourself up for failure, whether you R or not. You have to be ok no matter what.

My XH STILL tries to do all of those things and I have him blocked. He uses our kids and grandkids to attempt to gain access to me. He STILL calls his house "ours" and would ask me what kind of fruit trees "we" should buy if I still entertained it.

I'm concerned for how excited you are about this, because I know how hard that crash can be.

As much as I'd love to be happy for you, I want to encourage you to keep your expectations at a very very low - think ZERO - for the time being. Focus on yourself and let him do what he does. You are still on that rollercoaster.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 03:59 AM
97Hope- thank you!! I have no idea how I saw this response so fast tonight?? I’m so glad I did tho!!
Honestly, there’s no need to worry because honestly I sit and pray that I can fall in love again with my H one day if he comes back. I’m scared of that. Not in the beginning but as reality has peeked through I have realized how much farther away I really am. As excited as I thought I would be. I am excited for hope but I’m not depending on it either.
Timeline goes like this- I’m 3 years in and replay ended completely October 2020. This entire last year has been consistent contact but no affection, no false hope, and no R talk. He has been very kind the last year and more his old self. About 2 months ago he began referring to old life and new life. Then about 6 weeks ago he changed. Depression lifted, remorse set in, guilt lingered, and he started talking. Although, he has never told me he is coming back I feel like that is what he is trying to do. One night he texted me and said “I’ve tried to come back twice, I’m trying, I really am”. Then he began to parent again, helping with chores, returning to the community, speaking with old friends, and telling me he loves me in messages. He’s not pushy with it, he’s very reserved and cautious. I don’t feel like what he is doing in this moment is for me. I think he is rebuilding himself right now. He’s not capable of being a good H right now but he is working on becoming a good person again I think. He’s consistent with it so far. Since October of 2020 he is on a steady upward path. It’s def not fast but it’s def nice to watch. Oh and HELL no I don’t believe a word of “never been anyone else”! He wouldn’t have left if there hadn’t been I don’t think and I don’t think he would have the remorse he does if there wasn’t.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
97Hope- thank you!! I have no idea how I saw this response so fast tonight?? I’m so glad I did tho!!
Honestly, there’s no need to worry because honestly I sit and pray that I can fall in love again with my H one day if he comes back. I’m scared of that. Not in the beginning but as reality has peeked through I have realized how much farther away I really am. As excited as I thought I would be. I am excited for hope but I’m not depending on it either.

I'd like to see your main focus be your healing and growth. Why pray now for your feelings of love 'if' he comes back? Excitement for hope still rests in what HE does. That was my point. Your life needs to get to a point where what he does/does not do, does not captain your ship.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Timeline goes like this- I’m 3 years in and replay ended completely October 2020. This entire last year has been consistent contact but no affection, no false hope, and no R talk. He has been very kind the last year and more his old self. About 2 months ago he began referring to old life and new life. Then about 6 weeks ago he changed. Depression lifted, remorse set in, guilt lingered, and he started talking. Although, he has never told me he is coming back I feel like that is what he is trying to do.


Do you want him back? It's ok to want that. But you sound like you are watching him closely to determine how you feel and where to step next. It's a very difficult place to be in. I was there for 3 years, as well. What if he is doing all of those things (helping with house, reconciling with child, etc. just to make nice to get you on board for an easier divorce? Will you be ok with what you are doing now?


Originally Posted by Navarro
One night he texted me and said “I’ve tried to come back twice, I’m trying, I really am”. Then he began to parent again, helping with chores, returning to the community, speaking with old friends, and telling me he loves me in messages. He’s not pushy with it, he’s very reserved and cautious.

From experience, people don't 'try' to be/do anything that is a priority for them.
Think about it, look at how many WAS/WS on this board who blow up entire families, careers, friendships for an OW/OM. NOTHING gets in their way. There is no confusion, there is no "try", only do.


Originally Posted by Navarro
I don’t feel like what he is doing in this moment is for me. I think he is rebuilding himself right now. He’s not capable of being a good H right now but he is working on becoming a good person again I think. He’s consistent with it so far.

If he's in MLC then NOTHING he is doing is about you.

I still think your best bet right now is to focus more on your growth and healing. No matter what and for your own wellbeing. While it's great that he's being consistent, you need to be in a place where it doesn't matter either way.

Originally Posted by Navarro
Since October of 2020 he is on a steady upward path. It’s def not fast but it’s def nice to watch.

That's great news! But again, while you are focusing on his journey, where are you in yours?

Did you read the Lighthouse story?

Originally Posted by Navarro
Oh and HELL no I don’t believe a word of “never been anyone else”! He wouldn’t have left if there hadn’t been I don’t think and I don’t think he would have the remorse he does if there wasn’t.

There are a lot of stories about what true remorse looks like - remorse isn't crumbs. Now when he reveals all I would be more hopeful for you. In the past, you found evidence and he lied. He lied until he couldn't anymore.

Sounds like you have a serial cheater on your hands and that you are focusing on MLC and where he is at in the stages. I've been there. The most important thing is your healing.

Are you in IC?

Look, my user name is "hope" for a reason!! Sounds like you have been through a LOT. Three years is a loooong time. I am in your corner! I do believe you will heal and grow from this if you take your life and future in your own hands and not focus on what he's doing/where he is/where he is going. It's like having a foot in each canoe. Yours and his at the same time. I'd like to see you solidly in your own and allow him to go in his with peace in your heart.

Hugs x
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 02:46 PM
97Hope
Thank you again for your response!! So many things think think about! Honestly, complete honesty I have no idea where my head or heart really is? My anger is completely gone. Almost as if I don’t care anymore. I do not think I am in love with my husband anymore unfortunately. I’ve been standing for so long with the hope he would return but now I am so comfortable on my own that the idea of him returning isn’t exciting, it’s kind of scary. It’s so hard to explain. Him returning is what I thought I wanted all along. I just don’t know if I want him back. I didn’t want the person he was 6 months ago but I would consider trying to work with the person he was yesterday. Does any if they make any sense?
I’m “trying” to come home. So with this when he left that day he had tears in his eyes and he had walked the halls of our home, drove all around our ranch, and he really focused. I gave small detail on this in 1st thread. He was in such low deep depression for months before this day. I hadn’t ask him if he was thinking of coming home and he certainly didn’t have to tell me that he was considering coming home. I’ve not had a R talk in years. He speaks and I listen but until that moment he had never said anything to the extent that he may want to come back. Since that day he stepped up without speaking of anything and is going out of his way to try to make things right.
Serial cheater, really?? I’ve never thought of him that way exactly. I’ve only caught him once with anyone in 20 years. Once is too many tho! Not defending him because maybe I need to look that term up, he may be the criteria for it. The EA that I accused him of left her spouse a month before my H left. I just feel like it’s more. Although, in 3 years they’ve never been together and I think if he wanted her then he would be with her. I almost hate to admit I was wrong but that may be one that I have to. I had hired a PI for 3 months and found nothing on them. The EA actually had a new bf. Not that I plan to admit I was wrong on anything!
I did read the lighthouse story again. It’s so comforting and beautiful. Each time I read it, I have a different view of it. The way that it’s explained is absolutely amazing! I’ve had a front row seat to the conflict I see within. That’s why I feel so strongly that this is change. The chaos is gone and has been for so long. The conflict is/was there throughout. The switch flipped and it was like he woke up one day and realized that he was wrong. It was like 6 weeks ago my H that didn’t know what happened, why it happened, what he wanted, and that blamed everything else in his life for what is wrong in his life (which was nothing) realized that he was the problem. Not only did he finally figure out that he was the problem but now it’s like he is wanting to make up for lost time. He doesn’t wanna miss a thing, going out of his way to make things right, and trying to mend all the broken fences. I’m trying to be w guiding light but it’s hard being a light into a world that your not sure you still want.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 04:06 PM
It's perfectly fine to not know what you want right now.

Your timing, not his. You have a lot of work to do on yourself that requires some serious consideration. If he wants to make things right - part of that is allowing you to heal on your own time, in your own way.


Re: serial cheater - maybe. You know of one affair in the past, and one when he left this time. I don't know what your line is. I think only you can answer that. I don't think EA's are only ever EA's - they are still a betrayal of trust. That's up to you. And you mentioned you believed that there might be but you aren't sure. Given that you hired a PI - it sounds like you know, but you can't prove it.

One of the biggest blessings I have from all of this is the ability to trust myself now. I hope you can trust yourself, too. If you know in your soul that it's right/wrong, I hope you are able to believe you. During times of great stress and anxiety, that can be so difficult.

Take one day at a time, don't rush, all will be well.

I hope you have some time to feel joy and enjoy the day!
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 04:59 PM
97Hope
Such kind words of wisdom! This whole MLC reeks havoc in life for many years. Who even knows what right and wrong is? I am beginning to feel right individually and alone but the future is very sketchy to say the least.
The EA is def a situation of distrust and betrayal. Although, this happened only 18 months after I had found out about the original affair. My head was still spinning from that and I was looking/punishing my H for anything and everything. I was in a bad place at this time and he was to. I believe this was the cause of the crisis. I never really forgave him for the first A and we were both in a really bad place. I was looking for anything because my trust was completely gone. I think when I began to accuse him of the EA he then realized that he realized he ruined things and no matter what he did he could never conceive me that he was trustworthy. He folded after that! He gave up. I do belive this is his fault but I do hold some blame to. I wanted my M and I wanted my H but I made him suffer for a long time. I should not have made him live in the misery. I told him I forgave him but I never really did.
Our M has not been right for so long but I do think we both still love each other. We wouldn’t be here still trying to hang on if we didn’t. He is finally becoming a person that might could be a good H again and I am becoming a person who might become a good W again. Maybe, just maybe we will get an opportunity to move forward or find closure. My heart isn’t set on either. I pray and I hope God will guide us. Thank you soooo much for your words of wisdom! I hope you have a wonderful Sunday!
Posted By: CWarrior Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
I was in a bad place at this time and he was to. I believe this was the cause of the crisis. I never really forgave him for the first A and we were both in a really bad place. I was looking for anything because my trust was completely gone. I think when I began to accuse him of the EA he then realized that he realized he ruined things and no matter what he did he could never conceive me that he was trustworthy. He folded after that! He gave up.
I'll caveat this by saying I've never been through an affair, but I have betrayed and been a betrayer, and I think you did nothing wrong and were in fact smart to begin again with zero trust. Trust is earned. Where you may have gone off the rails is assuming wrongdoing (instead of just verifying) and you say no matter what he did he had no path to ever convincing you he was trustworthy.

If you want to rekindle the relationship you must give them a path to a good place. Now, if you were just verifying, and he took that as assuming he was in the wrong--he may be gaslighting you. This is not uncommon with cheaters and so I enumerate that possibility for consideration. A huge blessing of these forums for me has been seeing reality from a less invested perspective.

There was an XGF I betrayed who I was trying to rekindle a friendship with. When she assumed the worst of me for a second time, some people suggested dropping her. I tried, "If you only see who I was and not who I am, I don’t want to be friends." Since then she's been more vulnerable and our friendship hasn't been particularly close but it has been kind, open, and low-drama.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/12/21 09:57 PM
Mr warrior thank you! I’ve heard about gaslighting but I’m not exactly familiar with the term.
It seems as though you’ve given me two different angles. Have I mentioned the EA is still in the picture? They work together, he is her boss. When he left he said I had lost my mind. Maybe I had? He refused to fire her and said it was nothing more then friends and in time I would see that I was wrong. I haven’t spoken her name in 2 years. When he recently said that he had done nothing with anyone, it was in a moment of pity. He wasn’t trying to convince me there was no one else. He doesn’t answer to me and I do not ask. He was merely saying he lives a pathetic life that he is not proud of. I believe maybe by chance he was meaning that he has never moved on from me. Not saying he never would but more saying that he hasn’t made his choice on what he needed to do in that moment.
It was after this reveal (if that’s what you call it) that he came through and started becoming more influencing in our lives and eager to be apart of our lives. He has not came through to mend a broken relationship in this moment I don’t feel like. I think he is merely working on himself. When he spoke of trying to come home it wasn’t for the sake of me or him either one….I think he is trying to heal himself. He isn’t ready to mend a M yet because he is still working within.
The warning of him being still being in chaos is appreciated. That’s a guard that hasn’t been removed yet. The person he was the first two years was capable of anything but the person I am seeing now is the person that I use to know before the crisis. I forgot what that person looked like and it’s nice to see him. I’m not fooled that he may not be here to stay but he is welcomed for now. I have missed this person. He didn’t come back easily either! I’ve at least gotta give him the chance he didn’t receive when he left.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 09/14/21 12:25 PM
Navarro, proceed cautiously. There are a lot of WASs that end up sniffing back around for ulterior reasons. We have a saying around here: When he wants to reconcile, you will know. When he doesn't you will be confused.

So ask yourself, do you know? Or are you confused?
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/14/21 05:58 PM
Thank you Mr Warrior! I will proceed cautiously. I don’t think I’m confused, I think uncertain. I think I’m looking for a problem (as I have been guilty in the past of to). It took him a long time to leave and I think it will take him time to return. I may be a fool but there’s something changing and it’s for the good. I think I’m going to have to let my guard down a little and try to allow it to happen. I may be the one standing in the way of my own future. I can be my own worst enemy sometimes and that may be one of the reasons I am where I am now. I didn’t believe in the man he was 2 or 3 years ago but I do believe in this man I am seeing in front of me today. I believe we are working together to a common goal. I’m not blind or naive to reality but I can’t always expect the worst because then my mind isn’t open to allowing it to move forward. We shall see tho…..I may be wrong but even if I am then I will be ok. Thank you so much for all the responses.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/14/21 06:26 PM
I expect too much too quick. You’ve really put things into perspective in that last message. His intentions are honest (finally). I’ve got to be better and I’ve got to be open minded to this. I’ve gotta be the one to except it instead of criticize and critic it. I’m looking for anything bad and he’s trying with everything he has. It’s me!!! I am my own worst enemy. Thank you warrior, thank you!!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 09/16/21 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
I expect too much too quick. You’ve really put things into perspective in that last message. His intentions are honest (finally). I’ve got to be better and I’ve got to be open minded to this. I’ve gotta be the one to except it instead of criticize and critic it. I’m looking for anything bad and he’s trying with everything he has. It’s me!!! I am my own worst enemy. Thank you warrior, thank you!!

Why is he suddenly an innocent victim? Navarro, come on, you have a right to be skeptical. He should have to work at this. He has to be willing to move mountains to come back. If you let him waltz right back in you will be setting yourself up for BD#2. Make him work for it. If he is serious no obstacle will be too big.

I know you are worried about him giving up and going away. All LBS worry about that if they make R too difficult for their WAS. BUT, what are you showing him if he can do all of this, and then snap his fingers to come back? That it is okay what he did, he can do it again, and you will just have an open door for him to come back into your life despite what he has done. Make sure you have a list of requirements for R. Things like MC, IC for both of you, full transparency (you know where he is at all times (there are apps for this) and you have access to all of his accounts, email, social media, etc).

He has to earn his way back if there is any chance of a lasting R.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Well here goes.... - 09/16/21 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Why is he suddenly an innocent victim? Navarro, come on, you have a right to be skeptical. He should have to work at this. He has to be willing to move mountains to come back. If you let him waltz right back in you will be setting yourself up for BD#2. Make him work for it. If he is serious no obstacle will be too big.

I know you are worried about him giving up and going away. All LBS worry about that if they make R too difficult for their WAS. BUT, what are you showing him if he can do all of this, and then snap his fingers to come back? That it is okay what he did, he can do it again, and you will just have an open door for him to come back into your life despite what he has done. Make sure you have a list of requirements for R. Things like MC, IC for both of you, full transparency (you know where he is at all times (there are apps for this) and you have access to all of his accounts, email, social media, etc).

He has to earn his way back if there is any chance of a lasting R.

I'm with Steve here. Maybe read the posts again. It wasn't an admonishment to give him a free pass. It was more lighthouse than open door.

GAL. Notice. Pause. Breathe.

Leave him to his journey while you are on yours. Healing. It will come. But it will not come while you are watching his moves to determine your nexts steps. This is when it's time to do what's best for you, no matter what happens with him.

It might be just the way I'm reading your posts, but it doesn't appear that you are on an even emotional keel just yet. Find that place where you are ok no matter what and where what he does or doesn't do - does not affect you emotionally (detachment). That will take time.

If he truly wants to R - like Steve said, no obstacle will be too big. Look at all the effort and hard work it took to have the affairs. Don't let fear dictate your boundaries, or lack thereof.
Posted By: 97Hope Re: Well here goes.... - 09/16/21 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Navarro
I expect too much too quick. You’ve really put things into perspective in that last message. His intentions are honest (finally). I’ve got to be better and I’ve got to be open minded to this. I’ve gotta be the one to except it instead of criticize and critic it. I’m looking for anything bad and he’s trying with everything he has. It’s me!!! I am my own worst enemy. Thank you warrior, thank you!!

I didn't get this message from what Warrior posted.


You expect too much?? No. Too quick, big YES.

You don't know that his intentions are honest. (You don't know that they are not). TIME.

Accepting behavior without criticizing or critiquing? He was unfaithful, of COURSE you need to evaluate behaviors. Over time. Are they consistent? Do they match the words coming out of his mouth? So no, criticizing isn't helpful. But certainly notice and evaluate.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 09/17/21 12:41 AM
You all are so awesome! I know your worried about “me”! I know what that message meant and I know that you feel like I took it the opposite way. I’m sure you both were like WTH!!lol!
I watched an article about detachment last night and I have been so worried that I wasn’t detached enough but I’m a lot further detached then I even realized. I don’t portray that here. I show weakness here because I feel like it’s my only place to be able to do that. I think I’m misunderstood because he doesn’t effect me. That ship sailed a long time ago! Now I won’t lie and say there isn’t a bad day I’m there every once in a while.
I have control problems. I’ve always had control problems. He’s wrong in so many ways and he is to
to blame for all of it BUT you guys I have a lot lessons to learn to. Maybe not for this M but maybe even for a future relationship. Closure is what I long for. The unknown is what bothers me. My H told me so many times throughout our M “you look for something wrong”! I do to! Instead of looking for the right then I assume the wrong. I don’t even know what makes me happy now. I’ve ask myself that a million times. Can he ever make me happy again, I don’t know? Would I love to see him finish his crisis and come back better, I don’t know that either? I’m lost you guys in what makes me happy.
I don’t want a man to come grovel back. I want a strong man that knows he loves me and wants to be with me confidently and with his whole heart. There’s no other option!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 09/17/21 11:15 AM
Navarro, this board is very supportive of self-improvement/180s. Not even supportive, we demand it. And hold LBSs accountable to become the best version of themselves they can be. So yes you have work to do on yourself. You need to figure out what you need. You need to get into IC, go out and GAL, and keep working on self-improvements. You need to get right, and you need to deal with all of the trauma you've been through. When you don't even know what you want then how do you even know if you want to reconcile? So yes, do the work to make sure you are successful in MR 2.0. Or a brand new R!

But I do want to make sure you know that I wasn't saying your H has to come groveling back. He can know he loves you. Know he wants to be with you confidently with his whole heart. And still live up to boundaries and requirements that you have for moving into Ring and piecing. Those things do not have to be mutually exclusive.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 03:56 AM
Hmmm I’m not even sure how to begin to express what is going on with my life right now. I have taken your advice and I am on a routine schedule now with an IC. I am still very confused but hopefully with a little time that will resolve.
Rewind 3 weeks and picture this- My h asking if he can return home? With your guidance I told him no. Now fast forward a week later- he walks in our home nervously and says he is considering retiring and taking a new business venture that consists of traveling across the US. I was completely shocked but only responded with a genuine and enthusiastic “congratulations”. His nervousness seemed to change to confusion then sadness after his spill on the career change. Things seem to be fairly normal the last two weeks or so until Friday. Friday he left for all men’s poker trip (he scheduled it 3 months ago). He was excited for the trip and by all accounts looking forward to it. He gets out there hangs with the men all day, sends lots of videos, and seems to be having a great time. However, later that evening he repeatedly calls and when I finally answer he is crying profusely. He can’t even speak!! He repeats he’s sorry but never addresses what for. I mean I can assume but there’s no way of making a correct assumptions with a man in crisis! He was considering flying back home but I convinced him to sleep on it and things would be better in the morning. He texts at 9 the next day and says “sorry for last night, I am better today”. That evening rolls around and he begins texting me “I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry”. He doesn’t address for what but it’s the same text over and over. Texting has been the only form of communication we’ve had the last 3 years so when he called (more then once) this past week that is rare.
When is the right time to except them back to try? Is there still more remorse coming? Strangely enough it feels like he woke up and realized that we are split up and is trying to deal with a break up from day 1 when I've had 3 years to try to recover. Oddly enough I feel confident and I am calm. I can’t help but feel a lot of old hurt because these are painful emotions that I’ve put passed me and tried to move on from. It’s like ripping a bandaid off of an open wound. I don’t wanna go back and relieve what I went through when he left. I don’t wanna go back and I thought the key to this was looking forward. This feels like going backwards and I’m not sure I wanna go there and relive that pain again. Is talking about the past something we have to do to move forward? So many questions…...
Posted By: Thornton Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 01:41 PM
Hey Navarro,

It appears he is feeling the fear that he may have lost you. This is a good thing.

I can only speak from my personal experience when my ex (she left and came back 3x) wanted to come back home.

Every time she started to feel the fear that I had moved on, she would call or text and cry. One time she wept in front of me in a Starbucks for 2 hours. Every time I would take her words and actions at face value and drop my guard.

When I would drop my guard, we would go back into a honeymoon phase. Lots of love, sex etc. But those periods were short lived and she would revert back to her old behaviors within months and we would fall back into old patterns and she would leave again.

Looking back, I should have taken much more time to see just how serious she was about our relationship. I should have established more boundaries in regards to what I was willing to accept from a partner and given her the time to prove whether she was capable of staying in an imperfect relationship, or not.

My advice - take things very slowly. I think there's some positives here but your H's feelings can and most likely will change regularly. One day he might miss your relationship, and the next day he might value his independence as a single man. You want to look for consistency, over time, to trust that what he's telling you is real and not just a fleeting feeling that he has that day.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 02:15 PM
I get that he is saying sorry, but is he saying he wants back in?

Lots of WAS's are sorry for themselves more than the LBS.
Posted By: wayfarer Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 04:35 PM
#1 he needs to articulate what he's sorry for: he's sorry he got caught, he's sorry he messed everything up, he's sorry he's been a terrible person, he's sorry you're not waiting on him any more or is he truly sorry and wants to actually make amends?
#2 have you made a list of your demands for him to return to the marriage? If not you should sooner than later. There's a list around here some where, maybe someone can post it, if not I'll try to dig it up later. Mainly it's IC and MC and complete transparency about where the the WH/WAH is going, what they are doing, who they are doing it with, their social media, phone, email, whatever, and the LBS has veto power on things that make them feel uncomfortable.
#3 Most people have a false start some times more than one. Sometimes that leads to Recon, sometimes it doesn't. Take things slow. Don't get your hopes up. And treat H like a skittish cat. Let him come to you, don't go to him.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 05:00 PM
You've got good advice above from three very wise posters. Thornton nailed the answer to your question. You will know he is really back when he is constance over a long period of time.

And really okay attention to wayfarer about what requirements you have to R. When a WAS is serious about coming back no requirement will be too much for them.

Remember: When he wants to truly come back you will know. When he doesn't, you will be confused.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 06:56 PM
Great responses and lots to ponder. I appreciate them all very much. More then you will ever know. He’s feared loosing me from day 1. He’s bought the app that changes the phone numbers and texted me from different numbers pretending to be another man and seeing if I would be interested. He did that for the first 2 years. When he began our “friendship” again a year ago all of the other odd number text messages stopped. I have access to his phone and I found all the messages.
One thing that sticks out to me that is probably the most is the consistency. He has been consistent for the last year. He is reliable, not drinking, he’s accountable, he is kind, he is thinking clearly, and he has been consistent. I think that’s what I feared the most because it felt like he was getting better and we were becoming “friends”. He’s been pretty great honestly the last 9-12 months. I will say the last 12 weeks he has become a happier person and more of his normal self. I had forgotten just how good that person was til I saw him again. I’ve actually wondered if his crisis ended long before now but he just decided not to come back to me. Even though he was getting better he spoke no words to me about our relationship nor did I. We text constantly and he tells me where he is always and who he is with. He does nothing except work and spend time with us in our home. That’s been the most confusing part of it all!! The consistency has been there for a while but yet the r hasn’t! It’s felt almost normal for the last 9 months.
I’ve seen the highs and lows you refer to. When the lows began they were very selfish and hateful, then they were pitty for himself, and now they refer to me finally. Although, he takes accountability, I can’t seem to have him admit much of anything. He can’t really explain it. He claims it’s him but he just doesn’t know how or why. He has such few words. He has vague memories of the last 3 years but then when I ask something he cringes and ducks his head. So he def needs to speak more and spill everything! Ok that means that I have to be willing to listen to it. I shut down when we talk about the past to. I have to be more welcoming to listen.
Where can I find the requirements? I need that!! I’m not confused about him wanting to come home, I am confused about letting him come home. I dreamed of this day and it’s what I’ve waited on but now that it’s here, I am scared of it. I’m not worried about him leaving in 2 weeks, I am worried about him leaving in 2 years. I’m detached and I have to choose to work forward, that will take time but I don’t want him to leave again after I get attached again! I don’t want to go through that pain. You all, I’m not sure I can survive that again! I’m starting to wonder if I am going to be able to allow him to return. When I read on here “the old r is dead and gone” I don’t think I realized how true those words really were.
Posted By: BL42 Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 07:58 PM
Navarro,

Glad you're seeing good signs from him. I agree proceed with caution. Be "OK" with yourself either way. If he doesn't come back you'll be ok if he does all the better.

Originally Posted by Navarro
He’s bought the app that changes the phone numbers and texted me from different numbers pretending to be another man and seeing if I would be interested. He did that for the first 2 years. When he began our “friendship” again a year ago all of the other odd number text messages stopped. I have access to his phone and I found all the messages.
This seems a bit controlling and creepy. He's using an app to text you from random numbers to test whether you'll date other men? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Originally Posted by Navarro
One thing that sticks out to me that is probably the most is the consistency. He has been consistent for the last year. He is reliable, not drinking, he’s accountable, he is kind, he is thinking clearly, and he has been consistent. I think that’s what I feared the most because it felt like he was getting better and we were becoming “friends”. He’s been pretty great honestly the last 9-12 months. I will say the last 12 weeks he has become a happier person and more of his normal self.
I agree w/the others to make sure the words and actions are consistent over a long period of time. He should want to move back and reconcile badly. Is he showing consistency in wanting to reconcile or just consistent being a good/nice person?

Originally Posted by Navarro
I’m not confused about him wanting to come home, I am confused about letting him come home. I dreamed of this day and it’s what I’ve waited on but now that it’s here, I am scared of it. I’m not worried about him leaving in 2 weeks, I am worried about him leaving in 2 years. I’m detached and I have to choose to work forward, that will take time but I don’t want him to leave again after I get attached again! I don’t want to go through that pain. You all, I’m not sure I can survive that again! I’m starting to wonder if I am going to be able to allow him to return. When I read on here “the old r is dead and gone” I don’t think I realized how true those words really were.
Detachment isn't for now and then you get attached and get hurt all over again. Detachment is being happy with your life and knowing you'll be ok regardless of how he acts. If you allow him to comes back again you continue to DB and GAL and be happy with your life even if he leaves again. In the future, whether you allow him to come back or not and whether he stays or not, detachment is knowing you'll have a great life regardless and won't be devastated either way.
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 10/05/21 11:31 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention about 6 months ago he deleted all social media accounts. Looking back on things that’s about the same time that he began o refer to his old life and his new life. He made comments about he liked his old life and that nothing he has done has brought him happiness. He would say “I always thought if I changed this then I would happy or I changed that then I would be happy but nothing has got me there”. He deleted everything and says he wants no part of any social media. He wasn’t a big social media person before or during the crisis.
I’m not familiar with a WAS. I’ve read a bit about it earlier but the MLC just seemed to fit the part exactly. Maybe I should read about a WAS a bit more. Is there any specific differences that stand out?
Posted By: Navarro Re: Well here goes.... - 10/06/21 02:57 AM
I replied to these messages but it’s not showing in my end so I apologize if I am repeating myself. Thank you all so much for your responses and opinions. I listen and try to mirror myself from your guidance. I appreciate them so much!!

Detachment- wow!! I’ve never looked at it this way. I guess I didn’t realize that was something that needed to be continued. Although, I don’t see how I couldn’t so maybe that’s part of my confusion. Does that mean that I won’t be able to fall completely and fully in love with him again? Does that mean I continue my independence for a lifetime? You really made me see this in a different light. I would be dumb not to continue it. I do understand and it does make sense.

The phone texting app- well in the 18 yr m that we had he was def the opposite of controlling. He liked his freedom and trust and wanted me to have the same. When he left things changed and he became the opposite of what he was in the m. I’m not sure if he messaged me from the number to see if I would react for fear of loosing me or if it game him another reason to blame me for him leaving. Probably a little of both. He was so mean in the beginning and made things up just to hate me. He would comment on my outfits and tell me I was dressing like a slut (I’ve never dressed inappropriately) but he made those comments because he was uncomfortable with what I was wearing. It made him jealous and that would just give him another reason to text me all night about how much he hated me.

As to the “being a good guy or wanting the r for the last year”- NO he has not pursued a r for the last year, he has only became a more stable man the last year. There have been occasional “I can’t live without you, I’m so sorry, I love you and I wanna be with you” but they were in the moment. I didn’t make much outta that because I knew it was for the moment and wasn’t real. I mean I believe in that moment he was genuine but I also knew that by the next day his mind would change. The last 5 weeks or so has been very consistent about wanting to come home and efforts to come home. His remorse is finally addressed towards me for the first time. Although, he is more lost. He is overcome with sadness and almost can’t breathe at times. He wants to come home at any expense but he seems like he doesn’t remember clearly the last 3 years. When I ask him something then he comments “yeah yeah I kinda remember that and I’m so sorry” but it’s almost as if he can’t understand what happened. Does that make any sense? So Mr Thornton, your w came hime months at a time then left again? Geez that’s horrible! I can’t imagine the torture of that. Finally feeling somewhat secure then leaving again. Did she finally come home for good?

Ok so the WAS- ummm I read about that in the beginning but I’m not real familiar with the difference better a WAS and a MLC? Back a few years ago I had really tried decide between the two but the signs were so clear as to a MLC. Is there anything specific that can differentiate the two? I don’t know that my h would have ever left if I hadn’t made him go and if I had allowed him to go to the bar every night, only come home on nights he chose to, and held him accountable for his actions. I’m the beginning he said “I would have never left if you hadn’t made me” and now his comment to that is disbelief and “if I hadn’t been sick and wrong then I woulda never left”? Do the rules change with the WAS as to the MLC?
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