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I don't want a divorce II NEW THREAD pt 29Actually asking to him to lunch is something that loses your dignity. You’ve been here a long time and seem to be making zero progress which is a shame.
I don't agree with either statement.
Looking back I gained nothing from lunch... if I had to do that over I would not but I don't think I lost any dignity over it.
Also, I think I've made lots of progress. I have a lot more peace. I carried so much blame in the beginning. I'm not afraid to own my mistakes and if I had a do over would definitely do things differently. But, my H brought his share of sh*t to the meltdown and used me as his justification to do so... that I no longer accept.
I've also done a lot of self work. I'm not afraid to put my feelings and thoughts out there. Its real and its raw. Am I always right - far from it but I'm not afraid to use this as a way to work through what bogs me down. Could I do somethings differently? better? Perhaps. But I will not have my journey shamed...
Your GAL seems pretty strong so I guess that’s a positive.
That still needs some tweaking but I'm getting it there...
I think you asked him to lunch as a last ditch Hail Mary so to speak. I think you were hoping going to court would wake him up and he wouldn’t want to get divorced and seeing you immediately afterwards might be the push to get him to come back. There’s no other reasonable explanation. You said you don’t wanna be friends, so that’s not the angle. You didn’t need to do any of that to maintain dignity or grace, so it can’t be that either.
I can tell you with 100% certainty I did not expect court to get H to change his mind. This WHOLE court thing P*SSES him off. And, when my H is P*SSED off there is zero chance in expecting him to do anything.
I think I genuinely felt bad about him driving 2 hr to only be told its been postponed was a sh*tty thing to have to deal with.
I have no doubt I have nice girl syndrome...
My question is solely this....why can’t you be single? You are still trying to get your H to come back while missing the pilot whom you can’t forget months later after a few dates. I think you have codependency issues.
I am single. I told the men I had been dating that I'm taking time to focus on myself and getting this D done. This happened over a month ago. I'm not on any dating sites and haven't been.
You have justified being abused, justified your behavior with pilot, justified really everything that holds you back, and refuse to get professional help. Do you believe there is a some stigma to it? Like is someone or yourself going to call you crazy?
I was 100% honest in being stuck because I understand what limerance is... Its a complete disconnect between the brain and the heart. Its completely normal... it happens. My logic brain has to keep working with my emotional brain that its not real... its just solely because I can't have it.
Maybe my frankness and honesty may help someone else out who is dealing with the same stuff.
I'm coherent and take it for what it is (or more appropriately what it is not). I wrote it out in my post realizing that it was an issue... and I'm admitting it freely that being stuck was an issue in me that needed to be sorted in me.
You need professional help. You really do and that’s not a bad thing. I’m so sorry you seem to think it is. Most people don’t have a bad experience and quit all together the way you have therapy. And it’s only hurting you while everyone else is moving on in your life.
Well did you suddenly go to school and get that degree???
I 100% admit I'm terribly stubborn. I had such a severe vaccine reaction that my entire body HURT. I was unable to stand OR walk with an elevated heart rate and blinding headache for over 36hr. I know I should have gone to the ER. I did not... I felt that I had it under control and my respiratory rate was normal. I set goals... If I am not the LEAST bit better by X hours... I will go. I met the goals I set and did not go the ER. In 48hr my life was starting to look like my life again.
I'm doing the work... trust me. Books on this... books on that... books that I have to put down and walk away because digesting the information is painful and I have to do it in small doses... many books on X because I realize I'm not seeing the answer I want to see and that does sadden me but it is what it is.
Healing is not linear. My journey is not your journey. I distinctly recall others telling you not to date... and you coming up with all kinds of reasons why you felt it was fine... so were you single the entire time?
I know where I struggle because I freely put it out there.
KK,
The man choked you out, verbally abused you, cheated on you and is basically telling you the OW is better than you and you’re inviting him out to lunch. If you can’t see that you’re losing your dignity I’m not sure what to say anymore?
Again this is DB 101 so you tell me where’s the progress.
I’m sorry!
KK,
The man choked you out, verbally abused you, cheated on you and is basically telling you the OW is better than you and you’re inviting him out to lunch. If you can’t see that you’re losing your dignity I’m not sure what to say anymore?
Again this is DB 101 so you tell me where’s the progress.
I’m sorry!
What you wrote is true.
But, I no longer base my self worth on what he thinks of me.
I've approached my Hs abuse much like a drug or alcohol addiction. He had some very unhealthy coping mechanisms. While I feel that his approach for help is not ideal ((I will not call the kettle black!)) He has shown that he is talking to someone and has a support system.
I have not seen his anger in almost a year.
Maybe lunch was a test on my part? How would he handle a wasted day? He drove over 2hr to cancelled meeting he never wanted to be a part of from the beginning.
1yr ago he would have called me spewing anger and making it my fault.
While he said "well that was pointless" there was no anger and I couldn't even detect frustration and he was clearly exhausted when I saw him... and being tired is a huge trigger for explosive behavior from him.
Quite simply there was none.
He made none of the events about me. Wasn't upset or angry. Wanted to be sure that I got the date and time of the next t court date. The only thing he said was my atty was dumb... but it wasn't hateful and shoot if I drove an hr and it was cancelled i would have been a little pissy for sure. I should have been contacted so I agreed she was dumb.
Sooooo here is what I found hilarious... he never talks about her EVER. Wants me to believe he lives alone and went to HI alone. Ok... whatever. But I have found when he does talk about her he says "his buddy" or his "guy friend"
For example... a year ago he stopped by house when he still tech lived here to pick up tools to help his friend move HIS son out of the dorm. Ok, I know 100% it was OW and her daughter.
The following fall... he is helping his buddy move his kid back into the dorms... 100% OW and her daughter.
Many months ago he stated his friend has HIS kid at school and wanted to park closer to the dorms but that park pass was super expensive so the kid decided to leave the car in the cheaper lot and walk as she needed to lose 40lbs. I know with 100% certainty that the only kid at this college my H knows is OW daughter.
So for over a year he uses the Male pronoun when he does talk about her.
Circle back to lunch. I happen to mention that I was helping S19 do his taxes but the ding dong did some online crap that generated $82 in documented income and then I had to do an entire schedule C for a lousy $82 which as a student with less than 5k income was not even taxed... I basically just let him know how obnoxious it was.
H then asked... oh what does he do online... I said streaming. Couldn't remember the company but its online gaming. So H say wasn't Onlyfans? I was like no... he was like you know what that is right? I said no... he then looked right at me and says he has a buddy that sells his dirty underwear and pictures of his butthole and makes a lot of money. Uhmm... ok... I don't think woman buy dirty mens underwear... maybe??? Its more men buying women's underwear... right??
So he just sat at lunch and told me OW makes her money selling her dirty underwear and posting pictures of her butthole on online.... and if he thinks that she is better than me that's clearly a delusion.
I'm WAY better than her even on my worst day.
I'm not losing sleep over having had lunch with him.
Would I do it again? Nope.
I’m not sure what I just read, but I think you have officially gone of the deep end.
I’m not sure what I just read, but I think you have officially gone of the deep end.
I guess you can file it under "sh*t you can't make up"...
I'm not forgiving my H's abuse. But I see he has taken steps in dealing with his anger. I love my step kids who I have remained in contact with. I've seen my H take some BIG steps in trying to repair his relationship with D19... she is still not ready to have anything to do with him.
Sadly OW's career choice... she has gone from massage therapist to doing weird and gross online sh*t to make $$ and STBXH is okay with it.
I'm not in competition with OW and frankly I never was. I'm only in competition with myself --- focusing on the things I can control and being the best version of myself.
How much can you get for an anus pic and some skid marked undies?
How much can you get for an anus pic and some skid marked undies?
According to my STBXH... you do enough of them... A LOT...
STBXH was extremely exhausted. The most animated he got the entire lunch was talking about how much money was being made by this...
OMG... seriously???
eh'... yeah he leveled up... NOT.
Not my circus... not my monkeys... though its freaking hilarious.
Nope didn’t go to school and get a degree. But I’m very aware of what a healthy minded person is. I know that from going to therapy myself. And you’re ok. It’s not shameful but unfortunately you believe it is. Sorry you got offended, Though that’s par for the course. Books mean absolutely nothing when you are either reading or listening to the wrong ones or flat out letting them go in one ear and out the other.
Fine I’ll bite, what made you decide to ask a cheating wife beating stbxh out for lunch? Just came to mind it would be fun?
KC i really do hope for the best for you, but I am starting to question a lot of what you say.
Well moved my son home from college yesterday. We know how to rock a road trip for sure.
I've muted STBXH texts so my phone doesn't notify me... however, even though they are muted when I am driving somehow that gets bypassed?
My STBXH moved to a town an hour away from me. This state road that we take to get home hits the edge of his town... we are talking the very edge. We only drive through it for about 8minutes. I deliberately never drive into this town even though I have business there.
The longest STBXH has gone without contacting me over the last 15months is 9 days.
Well yesterday was day 9.
Driving home - about 40min away now two texts from STBXH pop up on my car dash. I immediately hit ignore.
Its Friday. He probably is asking if I have heard from my atty... AND I SO DO NOT WANT TO DEAL.
Got my kid home. Unpacked. Then I showered and went out to the bar with the "guy friend" that we've been walking our dogs with about every 2 to 3 weeks. The place was amazing as always. There was supposed to be live music... but none. Then about an hour later after it was supposed to start a couple shows up very rushed to set up. I know this group and they were not the scheduled group. They were a last minute fill in as the other performer did not show. I was actually more stoked for this one. I've seen the woman perform several other times and she is awesome.
So it was a great night. My "date" bailed at 10pm stating it was past his bedtime... but I stayed another hour. Had an amazing time.
So this morning I got up and read and did some chores. Getting ready to head over to the state park for an event. Decided it was time to read the texts and just deal with it.
Hahaha
STBXH - Are you bringing S19 home today?
STBXH - Thought I saw you on (state road) 20min ago.
Yup - that was us...
Funny is that anytime I'm on the road and I see motorcycles I always look to see if its him. He has a very distinct Harley. I didn't really notice very many bikes out. So he must have been in his truck? Which again is pretty unique - color is typical but its on a lift kit so it stands out.
Didn't see him.
Told him it I didn't notice him but that was us as the timing was right when we were on the road. Then said S19 is home and sent a pic of the mountain of laundry in the laundry room laughing.
Even though STBXH lives in this town the odds that we would be driving by the outskirts on noon on a Friday and he would see us are freaky low... AND, he felt the need to ask if it was us...
Sometimes the universe is a cruel mistress!!!
Keeping my chin up!
Nothing to see here. Keep your chin up and keep moving forward.
The longest STBXH has gone without contacting me over the last 15months is 9 days.Well yesterday was day 9. I immediately hit ignore. Its Friday. He probably is asking if I have heard from my atty... AND I SO DO NOT WANT TO DEAL. I decided it was time to read the texts and just deal with it.
If his texts take up so much mental space--you're counting how many days since the last one, you're anticipating what they'll say, you finally decide you have to "deal with" them--why not just block him? I'm curious why you continue to maintain this attachment. There's no business need--he doesn't need to know when you've heard from your attorney, he can ask your attorney any questions directly. He can also e-mail you. Fewer connections will help you detach, especially as you're aren't leveraging other tools like counseling. I suspect you feel a dip in how much mental space he holds, but it's still more space than the ideal.
Told him it I didn't notice him but that was us as the timing was right when we were on the road. Then said S19 is home and sent a pic of the mountain of laundry in the laundry room laughing.
You're continuing down the friends path. That's okay if it's what your heart desires.
Sometimes the universe is a cruel mistress!!!
In what way? You control whether you receive, read, and respond to these. Ms Universe is giving you opportunities. So many options, and entirely up to you what to make of them.
Then I showered and went out to the bar with the "guy friend" that we've been walking our dogs with about every 2 to 3 weeks. So it was a great night. My "date" bailed at 10pm stating it was past his bedtime... but I stayed another hour. Had an amazing time.
Careful not to fall into a relationship. After my 4 month hiatus--a hiatus from anything even possibly leading to romance was SO helpful for clearing my head--I'm beginning to date intentionally. That means I set standards and I check women against them. It's not enough to be attractive and into me. It's a slower dating process, but one that should end in me falling for a better match, or staying happily single.
Hey CW --- I guess my sarcasm didn't bleed through very well with the universe quote... I was just trying to acknowledge that fate sometimes is just weird.
As far the comment about the number of days between contact... its just an observation rather than a counting. An the idea that this cannot continue forever. Either it needs repaired or it needs to end...
As for the text versus email I'm not sure I understand the difference. Truth be told neither of us email... but is it just due to the phone notification? I get phone notifications for email as well so what would be the difference. Its my choice not to block - what if there was a family emergency?
No worries with the guy I went to the bar with... the last thing I'm looking for is a relationship. I doubt I meet up with him again as I was starting to get the vibe that he is thinking this is something more??? I was kind of relieved when he left the bar early... everyone knows they play the best songs at the end!!!
I will say that I'm very very stiff and sore from eight hours of hauling 200lb of dirt and some 20 12x12 pavers. I was only able to get the project 85% complete and its rained all day so it won't get completed for another weekend. I was telling my male bff about the project and how the pavers had been stacked along the side of the house for 4yrs!!! Better late than never...
Overall I'm doing well.
Crying....
Crying absolute tears of joy.
SS21 just wished me Happy Mothers Day.
STBXH and I do not share biological kids... but I love my stepkids... it's nice to know they think of me as well. And this is the reason I do not block him. If he ever reached out due to a family emergency and I was being immature and blocked him I would never forgive myself.
I accept the lot I've chosen by my actions but not my heart that I'm friendzoned. It is what it is.
It's hard raising kids that aren't yours for for many reasons... firstly you're not their parent and it's easy for them to hate you because you're not their parent. I had broad shoulders and I carried that anger. I preferred they didnt like me if it meant they didnt blame their dad.
It's nice to know that my sacrifices were not unnoticed.
This just made my entire year! ♥️
That's wonderful, KitCat. Happy Mother's Day. (:
Crying....
Crying absolute tears of joy.
SS21 just wished me Happy Mothers Day.
STBXH and I do not share biological kids... but I love my stepkids... it's nice to know they think of me as well. And this is the reason I do not block him. If he ever reached out due to a family emergency and I was being immature and blocked him I would never forgive myself.
I accept the lot I've chosen by my actions but not my heart that I'm friendzoned. It is what it is.
It's hard raising kids that aren't yours for for many reasons... firstly you're not their parent and it's easy for them to hate you because you're not their parent. I had broad shoulders and I carried that anger. I preferred they didnt like me if it meant they didnt blame their dad.
It's nice to know that my sacrifices were not unnoticed.
This just made my entire year! ♥️
There is not reason to block your stbxh for that reason. My guess is you will continue this game with him until he either gets remarried or you find someone else.
Glad to hear it made your year! Onward and upward!
A week or so later I asked about something random to him. I get multiple text messages back. About how he just wants to move on and how he sees all these "bad" signs when he has been in my town many months ago. Now, all but 1 visit he was here on his own personal business or that of OW... I got descriptions of how he was cut off in traffic, how he was rear ended, how he had been run off the road, ((and the one visit regarding me --- he arrived in town for court date and it had been postponed of which I had not been notified either, so a waste of his time.)) THIS ^^^^ This is the reason he will not consider recon, though that is not what I was texting him about... its just what came out of his mouth.
Curious as to what was important to text him to where it is turned into a relationship talk where he just reaffirmed to you that you are not good enough?
But he was looking to recon... they could have been good signs... when I am not with you I get run off the road... when I am not with you nothing goes my way.
You have never given him the time or the space to remember the good times.
This man was soooo happy to have randomly run into me on the highway that he was texting multiple times --- that he thinks he just saw me on X road 20min ago... was it me??? Wouldn't then that be GOOD sign making all those other signs months ago fade in comparison???
I think you really have blown that incident way out of proportion.
Yet you do not do anything to detach from it.
My STBXH texted that he is filling his life with healthy relationships with the best of friends and occasionally family so much so that he has finally quit smoking. ((he had quit when we met and got together... but stress of his job, his kids and being tired all the time he fell back into it... I was angry over it and pulled away. I tried to find a neutral place where I did stop nagging for the last 2yr... sigh))
So now you have him texting you how wonderful his life is without you. That must feel amazing (insert LH eyeroll)
A week or so later I asked about something random to him. I get multiple text messages back. About how he just wants to move on and how he sees all these "bad" signs when he has been in my town many months ago. Now, all but 1 visit he was here on his own personal business or that of OW... I got descriptions of how he was cut off in traffic, how he was rear ended, how he had been run off the road, ((and the one visit regarding me --- he arrived in town for court date and it had been postponed of which I had not been notified either, so a waste of his time.)) THIS ^^^^ This is the reason he will not consider recon, though that is not what I was texting him about... its just what came out of his mouth.
Curious as to what was important to text him to where it is turned into a relationship talk where he just reaffirmed to you that you are not good enough?
I had mentioned his D19. That resulted in multiple texts first about how his D19 made her bed and she can lie in it which is a huge change from him when he dropped off the dog in March when he was the one to talk about his D19.
I did not respond to his text about his D19. He continued to rattle off texts.
I did not respond.
But he was looking to recon... they could have been good signs... when I am not with you I get run off the road... when I am not with you nothing goes my way.
You have never given him the time or the space to remember the good times.
I am sadly aware of this
This man was soooo happy to have randomly run into me on the highway that he was texting multiple times --- that he thinks he just saw me on X road 20min ago... was it me??? Wouldn't then that be GOOD sign making all those other signs months ago fade in comparison???
I think you really have blown that incident way out of proportion.
I was being sarcastic.... seeing how he was going on and on about all the "bad" signs... wouldn't this be a "good" one???
Yet you do not do anything to detach from it.
Detaching and letting go is a process. I'm much more at emotional neutral than I have been. I don't immediately respond to reply to his texts. I often don't even ready them for at least 24hr. When I respond its 5 words or less.
My STBXH texted that he is filling his life with healthy relationships with the best of friends and occasionally family so much so that he has finally quit smoking. ((he had quit when we met and got together... but stress of his job, his kids and being tired all the time he fell back into it... I was angry over it and pulled away. I tried to find a neutral place where I did stop nagging for the last 2yr... sigh))
So now you have him texting you how wonderful his life is without you. That must feel amazing (insert LH eyeroll)
That was part of the multiple texts he sent when first talking about his D19. I didn't ask. I certainly didn't respond. And... no... it completely [censored] that he is soooo happy without me. But it is what it is.
My atty sent a rough draft of our dissolution 2 weeks ago... I haven't been able to even look at that email.
Detaching and letting go is a process. I'm much more at emotional neutral than I have been. I don't immediately respond to reply to his texts. I often don't even ready them for at least 24hr. When I respond its 5 words or less.
KK believe me I know detaching is a process. That's why I get crazy when I hear people say "you need to detach". The point is you have set it up so he can text you how amazing his life is right now.
I get you want him to look at you different then he does his first W but you are delaying your detaching process.
Well I read through my decree that my atty prepared.... so not prepared for this... totally do not believe that D is the answer but there is nothing more I can do.
I will forward the papers to STBXH this evening.
Well I read through my decree that my atty prepared.... so not prepared for this... totally do not believe that D is the answer but there is nothing more I can do.
I will forward the papers to STBXH this evening.
Definitely the last tough part. There is nothing more you can do but to try to heal and move on. Your relationship was extremely toxic so it will take some time and space to heal the wounds.
Onward and upward!
Today's just rough....
STBXH wanted to discuss getting the puppy neutered. He has an appt on Tuesday for wellness exam and I offered he could leave the dog and I could do surgery on Thurs and he could pick up on Friday... He seemed flustered and I just said it could be done another time but to let me know.
That turned into asking me to pet sit the second week in June. He was like you remember I was going out of town??? Uhm.. your schedule is not my concern. I stated I could watch the dog and at the same time do his wellness and his surgery so by the time he is picked up he is all recovered.
YIKES, why do I do him favors??? I'm more focused on the dog... yet STBXH benefits greatly. I am now yet doing him another favor so he can go on vaca with OW. ((facepalm))
That turned into that he has paid off the timeshare and I need to move the HOA fees to my account... that was what was agreed upon so said no problems. Business matter handled.
Told him that the decree paperwork covers all we have already agreed upon. I told him I would not sign it as it goes against my values ((STBXH believes that only he is required to sign and if I don't sign it will go through in one year by default)). He asked what value? I stated I don't believe in D, but I agree to the financial settlement... his only response was he has not seen paperwork yet. I confirmed I would email today.
I was emotional neutral the entire time. I didn't whine or beg but simply stated my beliefs.
Sadly, I know the judge will not accept the decree without my signature... I will have to totally get drunk one night to sign it.
Moving forward.
Didn't you file for D when you were trying to satisfy one of the concerns of the pilot?
Didn't you file for D when you were trying to satisfy one of the concerns of the pilot?
Yeah, I recall that you were ready to sign those papers for the pilot, but it is “against your values”?
Ok... all I have to go on are his complaints of that... feeling like it was an impossible task and he wasn't interested in that.
Also that he brought up stepping up my D a couple of times...
In fact the day I left for my trip I got a weird text from him... I think it was meant for someone else.
P: Cloudy tonight. You taking your hubby with you.
Me: ?
Me: I'm not taking my hubby anywhere except maybe divorce court. I'm thinking you texting the wrong person.
P: Maybe divorce court. I think the jury is still out on that case.
Me: No, its happening. Just logistics at this point. Atty has had all the documents since Oct.
On my way home he texts he finds it odd that someone you are divorcing would give you ff miles... so he is questioning how serious I am about D?
So is he waiting to see if I'm actually keeping my word? He's in law enforcement so he can access court docs for free - he would be able to confirm that D was filed.
I shouldn't be spending so much energy on this but I suppose it keeps me from focusing on filing for D tomorrow.
KK get in therapy for you and your son's sake.
Well I read through my decree that my atty prepared.... so not prepared for this... totally do not believe that D is the answer but there is nothing more I can do.
I will forward the papers to STBXH this evening.
That's tough. I had been strong for months until a few weeks ago until the draft of the D agreement was sent to me in advance of trial and I had to review it. Definitely broke down a bit and cried. Hang in there.
So STBXH brought the puppy in for his annual wellness visit. I told him it would be best to neuter him before he turns 2yr in the fall. STBXH was ready for that to be done. I tried to keep conversation to and about the dog. Mentioned that the puppy would have to stay 24hr and that would mean two more trips to my town.... which I know he somehow hates and and turned into it being a bad "sign"... whatever.
STBXH was like well I'm leaving in June for vaca - you remember that right? Uhm... ok... not really my business. He asked if I wanted the puppy and he could drop off on Friday and pick up on Thursday. I said I'd love to have the dog and I would schedule his surgery on Monday so that by Thursday he would only have to keep him down till the weekend. He kept trying to make small talk "like what's up with this town"... I obviously looked perplexed and then he went into great detail about how he was helping a friend move her daughter out of the college in my town and someone rear ended him". I just said "hmmmm... must have been in a hurry to get to Walmart" and continued to walk out the exam room to the lobby. SERIOUSLY --- Its OW and her daughter but he can still only bring himself to say "friend". I found it amusing at best.
So I got the puppy last Friday and we made the most of it!!!! We went to 2 different state parks and hiked a total of 15miles... well it was sort of hike, run, drag, almost pulled into the water for a swim! I was exhausted and yet the puppy was not.
When STBXH dropped off the dog he was again very very chatty... He was driving his brand new 2021 RAM with ALL the bells and whistles. I commented on how nice it was and checked out the interior and let him ramble. I needed to leave as I was meeting up with friends to go out for a nice night of music, drinks and food so I turned to go into the house with the dog and he keep calling me back to show me something else or chat... he made it sound like this trip was a guys fishing trip... but I already had confirmation from someone else he was taking OW. I still can't understand why he lies about her???
Monday the puppy had surgery so it was no more activity after that.
Tuesday STBXH texts me pictures of all the fish he caught and one picture of him holding two of the biggest fish. REALLY??? I'm just laughing. Does SHE know he's texting me??? So I sent back "Love it!!! Best looking fisherman ever! Nice Catch!".... for the sole reason I hope she checks his phone!
Wednesday I went out and bought a ukulele.... I'm on fire!!! I can already play Twinkle Twinkle - LMAO!!! So this summer I'm going to learn to play a few fun songs.
The only other contact with STBXH was on Thursday when he was wanting to coordinate pick up times for the puppy. He showed up and I had everything already packed up. He again wanted to be chatty. He wanted to talk about SS20 and how he is driving himself home. Got the puppy all loaded up and he is still chatty so I thought W T H.... "are you going to take me for a drive in your new truck?"
So I took and put my dog back in the house, came out and he was holding the truck door open for me... something I didn't appreciate enough in the past. We talked about the truck.... its super nice and I'm sure it was $50k+. I let him do most of the talking. He talked about how his XW showed up at his Mother's bday party. He hates how she continues to leech off his family. We chatted again about SS20 as we both are concerned about him. As we drove there was some construction and he asked what that was - I told him new tennis courts for the high school and rolled my eyes. He went on to state my quiet neighborhood is not going to be quiet for much longer. I briefly talked about how I had been looking to downsize - post covid I've got 150K in equity in my home. I told him where I was looking - X town and that I found a great home with 4000sqft, walk out basement and separate entrance for inlaw suite on 3 acres... but that isn't downsizing. Apparently I suck at downsizing and was laughing.
We got back to my house and I hopped out and told him thanks and went into the house. It was quiet not having both dogs but went to practice my ukuele.
I woke up Friday morning to a text "so why would you be looking for a house in XTown" at 6am. I was not expecting that - like does it matter? I'm not moving to his town --- this would still be 30-40min from where he currently lives. I mean if I told him I was looking at his town I would get the question.
Additionally he has had the D paperwork for 2 1/2wk now and not a word from him asking/discussing it.
He’s got a dog sitter and friend , and a girlfriend he’s romantically involved with.
Lucky guy! He’s got the best of all worlds! His life sounds like it’s going pretty well!
Hi KitCat,
Why is the "friend" bit so perplexing? He wants to tell you the meaningful parts of his week, but they involve her, and if he said "fiance" or "my love" he probably worries you'd be hurt and talk to him less. Heck, years ago when I remember 1st dates asking "Why do you look so sunburned?" then "Who did you go with?" I sometimes said "an acquaintance." They always took the hint and I didn't have to clarify I was on another date. You both know who "the friend" is. Since you're the one who feels awkward, the onus is on you to change this dynamic. As you continue forming this friendship, if you don't want to talk about her, set that boundary. If you're okay with it, strip away the charade to show him you're comfortable. If he says, "My friend and I had a good time moving this week", say "I'm glad you and Betty had a good time moving this week." You just need to find what works for you. Maybe you find "friend" easier to process than either alternative and he's read you right. If that's the case, keep on keeping on. Detaching is a process. (:
Just a reminder, KitCat, you have agency and power in your relationships. Happy Saturday. (:
Hi KitCat,
Why is the "friend" bit so perplexing? He wants to tell you the meaningful parts of his week, but they involve her, and if he said "fiance" or "my love" he probably worries you'd be hurt and talk to him less. Heck, years ago when I remember 1st dates asking "Why do you look so sunburned?" then "Who did you go with?" I sometimes said "an acquaintance." They always took the hint and I didn't have to clarify I was on another date. You both know who "the friend" is. Since you're the one who feels awkward, the onus is on you to change this dynamic. As you continue forming this friendship, if you don't want to talk about her, set that boundary. If you're okay with it, strip away the charade to show him you're comfortable. If he says, "My friend and I had a good time moving this week", say "I'm glad you and Betty had a good time moving this week." You just need to find what works for you. Maybe you find "friend" easier to process than either alternative and he's read you right. If that's the case, keep on keeping on. Detaching is a process. (:
That's just it - I have called him out more than once. He goes above and beyond to continue the charade. I finally got to the point I literally said "I'm not sure I understand why you need to lie to me but I accept the fact that you feel that you do" I could literally say your taking X or it was X and her daughter and her other daughter lives with you... and he would literally still deny deny deny deny.
I don't waste any energy any more. I accept whatever his need to lie to me is and move forward.
During the truck ride he was giving his opinion when I mentioned downsizing. I mentioned selling high and waiting for the market to soften before buying and he was giving me all kinds of advice. Telling me to wait and hold my equity and get the lakehouse I wanted when I retire... that was OUR dream when we first got married... its not necessarily my dream but I kept my mouth closed and just let him rant.
After his text Friday at 6am he again offerred tons of advice that I did not ask for. He said "you will hate commuting from X town"... "you should look here"... I didn't respond to any of that. I was not asking for his help or his opinion.
He’s not lying . He just doesn’t want to share .
KK,
It’s called detachment. He can speak to you friendly and not think anything of it. That’s what happens when the WS gets a couple years head start.
Trust me he will bring you down to earth at some point when he gets engaged. Then you’ll 100% go NC because the game will be over.
Best looking fisherman ever! SMFH lol.
As for the activity on this board... I feel the decline is really due to the amount of negativity in general. I'm not pointing any fingers to anyone... its a very broad generalization.
More than once someone has felt personally attacked and decided to leave.
I think its important to realize that there is more than one way to slice an apple. Negative thoughts beget negative actions... I think that if you feel to focus on more positives... things tend to positively improve. Mindset is soooo important when going through a major trauma.
I think there needs to be more focus on inclusivity... because frankly there are things touted on this board that are not in line with MWD principles. MWD tends to focus on small steps and small goals and positives where sometimes on this board you are being cut down by someone else's personal opinion.
There are other boards out there - some better... some worse... but I think the ones with most success tend to help someone focus on positives... and taking small wins.
Again - this is just my opinion.
Dear KitCat,
I wanted to reply to your message without side-tracking Steve's thread.
First, I hope my posts to you have always felt more positive than negative--I believe you're a kind person most of the time and I wish for your happiness. If that wasn't clear before, I hope that's clear now.
Second, I hear you that we have a mix of members--some are blunter, some are more diplomatic, some are quicker to correct, some are quicker to empathize. Each subforum here has a radically different mix of regulars. I'd love to see you stick around and try a non-newcomers subforum if this mix isn't working for you.
Third, when a forum member seems off-course compared to the DB/MWD advice, I imagine it feels like a huge pile of 2x4s. Let's get to a specific. When your STBXH first moved away from you and in with OW, nearly everyone felt the best move to R was to go dark and remove yourself as plan B. The baby steps you were doing--"I went 1 day NC!" then "I went 2 days NC!" seemed more likely to help him ween himself off of you. What would have made you more successful, or what would have made you feel more supported, in terms of forum responses?
CW -
I wasn't necessarily referring to my thread or just myself... its an overall impression of where the board's direction has been in the previous several months.
Every board will have outliers for sure.
But there are many here who want to put their personal convictions upon you. I'm not looking to single anyone out but lets say there is someone who says... never take a cheater back... YET most of us here are experiencing some form of that... then they like to draw lines in the sand... well never take a PA back... yet, then many a point can be made that often times EA's can be more damaging than PA's. So their advice is heavily handed with their own personal convictions which may not be yours.
Sure --- I was under a great deal of gas lighting... and it took some time for me to get past that.
Yes, I very much needed to take the focus off of my H and put it back on myself.
But, to be given advice that my H is a cheater and how dumb to even want to improve that situation and made to feel bad because I did is NOT the undertone of the principles of this board at all.
I wasn't trying to imply that I'm leaving the board but making a general overview of what I have witnessed and why this board has lost a lot of steam.
IDK what would have made my situation better. Here I am 16months out and he still makes some kind of contact every 9 days. I probably might have been better served a year ago to stop contact but there were still several business items that needed to be addressed. I'm 100% certain had I cut all contact I would be D right now. I'm certain that the way I handled things has bought myself time... 16mo I'm still not D. That's more time for him to figure out that his current lifestyle is the bomb or maybe not so much.
Hard to say... maybe my D is final by the end of July??? Or maybe not...
What I can say with 100% certainly is that he doesn't hate me. If I had an emergency and needed to contact him - he would answer ---- now please know I'm not contacting him unless its a business matter so really I'm not contacting him at all.
I know the random texts/pics he sent when on vacation with her... were breadcrumbs... so I made sure to send them right back! What I can say with 100% certainty is that both times he was on a wonderful vacation with HER... he was contacting me because he was thinking about me.
I have accepted where he is at right now.
I'm also staying busy learning a new instrument... hitting outside music venues... meeting new people... hiking more... getting to the pool as much as I can...
But there are many here who want to put their personal convictions upon you. I'm not looking to single anyone out but lets say there is someone who says... never take a cheater back... YET most of us here are experiencing some form of that... then they like to draw lines in the sand... well never take a PA back... yet, then many a point can be made that often times EA's can be more damaging than PA's. So their advice is heavily handed with their own personal convictions which may not be yours.
I believe you are referring to Steve. He views EAs different to PAs. He has a right to do that. It doesn't mean they have to be your beliefs.
IDK what would have made my situation better. Here I am 16months out and he still makes some kind of contact every 9 days. I probably might have been better served a year ago to stop contact but there were still several business items that needed to be addressed. I'm 100% certain had I cut all contact I would be D right now. I'm certain that the way I handled things has bought myself time... 16mo I'm still not D. That's more time for him to figure out that his current lifestyle is the bomb or maybe not so much.
I think if you were D'd it would help you move on. I think you are back in denial again. You had a very toxic relationship that would most likely need many years of intense therapy to fix. NC is for your detachment.
What I can say with 100% certainly is that he doesn't hate me. If I had an emergency and needed to contact him - he would answer ---- now please know I'm not contacting him unless its a business matter so really I'm not contacting him at all.
Most WWs don't hate their exs. They just don't want to be married anymore. I am sure he would help you if you needed it. He's indifferent.
I know the random texts/pics he sent when on vacation with her... were breadcrumbs... so I made sure to send them right back! What I can say with 100% certainty is that both times he was on a wonderful vacation with HER... he was contacting me because he was thinking about me.
What you are are doing is displaying low value. I 'm surprised with your research you don't see it.
I have accepted where he is at right now.
Have you?
I'm also staying busy learning a new instrument... hitting outside music venues... meeting new people... hiking more... getting to the pool as much as I can...
This is good stuff!
“Love is playful and fun. Love is freedom. Love is allowing. Love is giving without expectations or attachment to any outcome. Being unattached to any outcome does not mean there is a lack of desire, it just means that you are not hijacked and controlled by your desire. You are simply okay with any and all outcomes because you have faith that eventually, the right person or the right opportunity will effortlessly manifest after consistent effort to make your desires a reality. Self-love means that you want what’s best for you and you want and will only accept those who want you also. Why? Because it is demeaning, degrading and disrespectful to yourself to try to keep those in your life who don’t want to keep you in theirs. Self-love is choosing to only spend your time where you are celebrated, cherished and welcome, instead of where you are simply tolerated.” LH19
But there are many here who want to put their personal convictions upon you. I'm not looking to single anyone out but lets say there is someone who says... never take a cheater back... YET most of us here are experiencing some form of that... then they like to draw lines in the sand... well never take a PA back... yet, then many a point can be made that often times EA's can be more damaging than PA's. So their advice is heavily handed with their own personal convictions which may not be yours.
I believe you are referring to Steve. He views EAs different to PAs. He has a right to do that. It doesn't mean they have to be your beliefs.
Of course... he is free to what he believes but post after post on many peoples thread... his constant theme was NEVER TAKE BACK A CHEATER... can't understand why anyone here would take back a cheater.
THIS^^^ is NOT in line with MWD principles AND I think the number of times it was posted ((and not just my thread)) was extremely harmful to those here looking for options/hope/direction.
For that reason his personal conviction should be put aside if he is on a board where that is NOT an outlined principle.
IDK what would have made my situation better. Here I am 16months out and he still makes some kind of contact every 9 days. I probably might have been better served a year ago to stop contact but there were still several business items that needed to be addressed. I'm 100% certain had I cut all contact I would be D right now. I'm certain that the way I handled things has bought myself time... 16mo I'm still not D. That's more time for him to figure out that his current lifestyle is the bomb or maybe not so much.
I think if you were D'd it would help you move on. I think you are back in denial again. You had a very toxic relationship that would most likely need many years of intense therapy to fix. NC is for your detachment.
I am NOT contacting my STBXH to chat about the price of gold in Spain.
My contact is limited to business items.
Now - I did make the choice to respond to his non-business text. I allow my STBXH speak to me of m stepkids and vice versa. The puppy has been managed and unless an emergency or he asks me to pet sit there won't be any more contact over that in a year. He has alternatives for pet sitters... I do know this. But, that dog means a great deal to me.
No one has a crystal ball. Where would I be if I was already D??? Probably in a relationship that I should not be... so here I am... 16months and no D. STBXH has had the D paperwork for 3 weeks. Its in his court.
What I can say with 100% certainly is that he doesn't hate me. If I had an emergency and needed to contact him - he would answer ---- now please know I'm not contacting him unless its a business matter so really I'm not contacting him at all.
Most WWs don't hate their exs. They just don't want to be married anymore. I am sure he would help you if you needed it. He's indifferent.
Funny... when he was here to pick up the dog. He made a point of discussing how his XW was at his mother's bday party... he was NOT pleased. He HATES her.
I think I'd rather have what I have now... than to think he hates me.
But, I think that says more about who I am as a person. I have so many guys who I've stayed in contact with who were guys who wanted to date me or vice versa... I can't think of anyone who I just don't talk to anymore save my son's father and pilot... those are truly the only 2 in 50yr.
[quote]
I know the random texts/pics he sent when on vacation with her... were breadcrumbs... so I made sure to send them right back! What I can say with 100% certainty is that both times he was on a wonderful vacation with HER... he was contacting me because he was thinking about me.
What you are are doing is displaying low value. I 'm surprised with your research you don't see it.
I have accepted where he is at right now.
Have you? [/qutoe]
My responding to a text that he sent is not stating I'm low value.
Me contacting him over non-business items... stating I miss him... does he miss me... does he think about me... can we try again.
^^^That states low value.
I have accepted where he is at --- He sent me pictures while on vacation. Doesn't mean he wants me back. Just means for whatever reason he thought about reaching out.
Well I am pretty sure dating while married and showing up half naked at the pilots isn't in MWDs principles either.
Look KK again maybe your H is having second thoughts. Only time will tell.
But there are many here who want to put their personal convictions upon you. I'm not looking to single anyone out but lets say there is someone who says... never take a cheater back... YET most of us here are experiencing some form of that... then they like to draw lines in the sand... well never take a PA back... yet, then many a point can be made that often times EA's can be more damaging than PA's. So their advice is heavily handed with their own personal convictions which may not be yours.
I believe you are referring to Steve. He views EAs different to PAs. He has a right to do that. It doesn't mean they have to be your beliefs.
Of course... he is free to what he believes but post after post on many peoples thread... his constant theme was NEVER TAKE BACK A CHEATER... can't understand why anyone here would take back a cheater.
THIS^^^ is NOT in line with MWD principles AND I think the number of times it was posted ((and not just my thread)) was extremely harmful to those here looking for options/hope/direction.
For that reason his personal conviction should be put aside if he is on a board where that is NOT an outlined principle.
Sorry, this is not true. Yes, I make a distinction between an EA and PA. That is true. But I do not tell others that they should not take back a cheating spouse because I wouldn't. The only time I've said this is when the LBS stated that a PA was a deal-breaker for them and their cheating spouse knew that. You do not give up your boundaries just because it was crossed!
What I have said is that you cannot work on a MR with someone that is ACTIVELY in an affair with another person! This is the dichotomy that think you are missing. I have said to you and others that you need to be moving forward with your life because your STBX is ACTIVELY CHEATING, leaving you for the the OP, and moving in with them! You cannot save a MR like that.
Now there have been lots of sitches here (Wayfarer's is one!) where the cheating spouse came back, was remorseful, was willing to do what the LBS required, was wanting like crazy to work on the MR, and do whatever they could to help the LBS get over the betrayal, and I've never once told those LBSs not to take their spouse back. In fact, I have been active in wayfarer's thread about getting her the help she needs to move past his past infidelity!
So the statements above are not reflective of my advice on this forum. As LH said, every situation is different. new Steve's sitch is a perfect example where the general thinking on the forum was that he shouldn't be open to ever taking a 7 time cheater back! But that doesn't apply to all cheated on LBS' situations.
I agree with Steve I do not recall him saying never take a cheater back.
“Love is playful and fun. Love is freedom. Love is allowing. Love is giving without expectations or attachment to any outcome. Being unattached to any outcome does not mean there is a lack of desire, it just means that you are not hijacked and controlled by your desire. You are simply okay with any and all outcomes because you have faith that eventually, the right person or the right opportunity will effortlessly manifest after consistent effort to make your desires a reality. Self-love means that you want what’s best for you and you want and will only accept those who want you also. Why? Because it is demeaning, degrading and disrespectful to yourself to try to keep those in your life who don’t want to keep you in theirs. Self-love is choosing to only spend your time where you are celebrated, cherished and welcome, instead of where you are simply tolerated.” LH19
I'm not disagreeing with you.
My personal belief is that M is a commitment above LOVE.
The following works best when perhaps you are limerant... but true love, deep love is not the feelings of butterflies or the lack of being able to go to sleep. There is a deeper level of love that is reached only by time and commitment. Marriage is not without problems or sacrifice. Marriage is not about liking or loving everything about your partner every day...
There was a very significant study done almost 2 decades ago showing married couples who were struggling in the M and considering D were much happier 5 years later and grateful they made the effort to stay together... at the moment I am unable to direct quote.
I think the biggest thing that needs to be addressed on this board is that feelings change all the time... No one person knows what another will feel next week, next year or in 5 years. Of course feelings change all the time! The person who committed to you above all others now suddenly is saying they never loved you... and over time that person may come back stating that they do love you and want only you... and then perhaps now its you who's feelings have changed to not want them anymore. Feelings change all the time.
Everyone has choices... from the person who left the marriage to person who chose to stand.
Right now my STBXH has more issues with the idea of M than issues with me. Those are his issues to work out. Mine are to keep focusing on myself and moving forward.
Where was a very significant study done almost 2 decades ago showing married couples who were struggling in the M and considering D were much happier 5 years later and grateful they made the effort to stay together... at the moment I am unable to direct quote.
Yes but your STBXH doesn't feel that way. He feels when the going gets tough you replace your problems with other problems. That's how most WS feel.
I think the biggest thing that needs to be addressed on this board is that feelings change all the time... No one person knows what another will feel next week, next year or in 5 years. Of course feelings change all the time! The person who committed to you above all others now suddenly is saying they never loved you... and over time that person may come back stating that they do love you and want only you... and then perhaps now its you who's feelings have changed to not want them anymore. Feelings change all the time.
Yes! That's why my advice is always you wish them well and go in the opposite direction. If they ever change their mind you can cross that bridge when you come to it.
Everyone has choices... from the person who left the marriage to person who chose to stand.
But this is where you lose your creditability KK. Screwing around with the pilot wasn't standing for your marriage. IMO you were using him to make your H jealous and he saw right through you.
Right now my STBXH has more issues with the idea of M than issues with me. Those are his issues to work out. Mine are to keep focusing on myself and moving forward.
Exactly!
Well I am pretty sure dating while married and showing up half naked at the pilots isn't in MWDs principles either.
Look KK again maybe your H is having second thoughts. Only time will tell.
That's why I jest... if I was already D I would already be in a relationship that wasn't good for me!
IDK what's going to happen in my future. I think my main goal was to slow down the D as much as possible. 16months ago there was sooooo much angry emotion. I didn't want a D under those circumstances. I didn't want to end up making a huge mistake just because somebody p*ssed you off.
I can say with certainty I'm operating under emotional neutral most of the time. When I am feeling really upset or sad I be sure to table anything I was doing until I have reached emotional neutral again. Sometimes that means writing something out here to get it off my chest.
I can also say that my STBXH is also operating more under emotional neutral.
I think you are less likely to have regret if decisions come from this place. I also feel that with more time and space he might be able to see what he is leaving behind. Maybe he doesn't, but at least I can feel confident that he isn't D out of anger or revenge. That's what is most important to me.
If I'm lucky enough to buy another 6mo I will take it... I don't see that happening... but I'm okay staying in limbo for right now. I'm staying busy.
But this is where you lose your creditability KK. Screwing around with the pilot wasn't standing for your marriage. IMO you were using him to make your H jealous and he saw right through you.
My H to this day knows NOTHING about pilot.... and I mean NOTHING. So I was NOT using pilot to make my STBXH jealous... I have never mentioned dating to my STBXH, to my stepkids, to my MIL. I NEVER post anything anywhere. My STBXH would be shocked to hear that I've not only dated... I got seriously attached... which was just limerance.
I was lonely, feeling insecure, feeling pressure from everyone that my M was over and move on/get over it mentality. I was unsure where to start, how to act, what to do... I was like a fish out of water.
I see now that even though I was not only legally separated, financially separated and physically separated... I was still married... and I was having an affair.
Not a proud moment to have realized that... but it is what it is...
Well unfortunately I have a really good memory and you were in Seattle with your step kids and you told them you were dating the pilot. Again your credibility is really low KK.
I said something very vague in passing...
I have some significant proof... but I cannot explain here. SS21 will NEVER say anything to H about it.
H has NO idea.
I think the main reason he says nothing about OW is that he also said some time ago he did not want to know what I was doing... said it would be too painful.
16months ago there was sooooo much angry emotion.
Not following your sitch, but would be interested in reading about all the positive changes in your behavior.
I don’t think it’s never take back a cheater.
It’s never take back an ABUSER. And MWD does absolutely say that .
I didn't want a D under those circumstances.
Again no credibility KK. You were going to D your STBXH when you thought it would win you points with the pilot.
I can also say that my STBXH is also operating more under emotional neutral.
Well of course. He has new family, friends, no commute and his STBXW as a friend.
I think you are less likely to have regret if decisions come from this place.
I agree and I do not think he regrets the decision one bit. You two were pretty toxic together.
I also feel that with more time and space he might be able to see what he is leaving behind.
I agree. Though I am still not clear is to what was so great about it.
Maybe he doesn't, but at least I can feel confident that he isn't D out of anger or revenge. That's what is most important to me.
I don't think he ever was doing that. He found another woman he feel is better suited for him.
If I'm lucky enough to buy another 6mo I will take it... I don't see that happening... but I'm okay staying in limbo for right now. I'm staying busy.
Uuuuum you are not in limbo you are in the process of divorcing.
I said something very vague in passing...
Uuuum it didn't happen that way.
I have some significant proof... but I cannot explain here. SS21 will NEVER say anything to H about it.
Good??????????
I think the main reason he says nothing about OW is that he also said some time ago he did not want to know what I was doing... said it would be too painful.
This is very common. I wouldn't read anything into it.
Until he stops the D and other woman moves out there is nothing to see here.
Well finally had a court date - this was just a meeting to establish progress and I was not present as I have an atty. STBXH has had a copy of the decree since Mid-May and has never said a word about it to me. He could sign and send to my atty office at any time. STBXH made several comments during the hearing but bottom line he is ready to sign and file.... AGAIN, he has the document to sign and has had it for two months now.
STBXH has texted a couple of times. I do not respond via text. I wait a day or so and send him an email. I asked him via email to get me information on who to call to get COBRA information. He did the legwork and sent me the information via text along with a comment about how pricey it was. I waited a day and just replied thanks for information and that would be out of my budget. As soon as my employer is back in town I will have to negotiate for a policy and I would keep him up to date. He doesn't email me back.... rather he sticks to texting me.
He called the office last week as the puppy needed just one follow up vaccine booster. My tech explained that currently I was the only Dr and my days were booked weeks out as I'm seeing more cases while my employer is out of the office. The tech stated that he didn't really have to see me as a tech could just do the booster vaccine - which is typical protocol. His exact words to the tech "but, I am sure she will want to see him". [meaning the puppy]
The day of his appt I just told the tech I would go in and do the booster (he just had a complete exam last month.) I walked into the room. I don't even look at STBXH. I'm just focused on the puppy who is so excited. I'm talking to him and petting him. STBXH states... he was perfectly behaved all the way here until I pulled in to the parking lot and he went ape sh*t. I finally looked up at STBXH and said "that's because he knows I'm here."
We talked of the dog. He shared story of when he was camping with him over the 4th how well behaved he was, etc. I just validated what a smart dog he was and how well the puppy loved and listens to him. Wrapped things up in less than 10min. Said to STBXH tell SS21 I said Hello. STBXH said he would if he ever sees him. "oh, is he not living with you since he moved back?" STBXH confirmed he is living with him but he is always up in his room on the xbox but that his 30days are up and he will be enforcing that SS21 get a job. We briefly talked SD19 -- he still has no contact. I then said well puppy is all up to date for 1 year on everything and to let me know when he needed more prevention medication. If I could get the rep to give me more free meds great but if not he would have to pay cost for them. And, I sent him out the door. He did not bring up any business items - insurance, signing decree. Quite frankly I expected him to also be driving to my atty office since he was in town. If that happened I was not informed.
The only text I have answered by texting was one last night while I was out. It was regarding a bill and my son. Said it was already dealt with and it would have no effect on him. He replied OK and some other statement and I just replied I understand.
Work has been incredibly busy - I've had many 11-12hr days in a row while my employer was out for 2 weeks. That's left me mentally and physically exhausted.
I bought a ukulele a month ago and have been faithfully practicing except for last week.
I've been getting out to multiple AAA baseball games this summer. There of course was NO season last year. This is something we always did as a family when the kids were younger. I've gone with my son a couple of times and while he wasn't much of a fan as a kid he really gets into with me as an adult. I met up with someone I met on an app -- that was fun!!! And, no it was not a date.
I've fallen into a friendship with a guy I did meet on a dating site last January. We had one date which wasn't super spectacular but we've kept in touch. He's really nice. He's not dating per say and works tons of hours like myself. we chat every few days and keep making plans to go to baseball game -- he's a big fan. I'm only a fan of the minor leagues. So its nice on those more lonely days to have someone to talk to.... and it is just a friendship.
I have no issue going out to a bar alone. Went last night to my favorite place because they were having live music and it was great. I sat by myself and this woman invited me to sit with her table with her husband and friends. I really thanked her but I was comfortable with where I was sitting. Then later two guys asked if they could sit next to me -- I said no problem. Makes it look less like I'm here alone! I had friends who knew I was out alone and they texted and check in with me to make sure I was okay.
I've 5 days on Daytona beach next month. I have an old friend who lives in FL... not sure how far from where I am staying who wants to meet up and hang out. So literally last December I get a message from this guy that he was in town and do I want to meet for lunch. We went to nursery school together and literally have not seen one another since 1976 - and we were 5. It was fun to catch up and relive the "old" days. He knew I was in the middle of a divorce. And, since then he has been inviting me to come out and stay with him as he lives on the beach. He is a nice guy and he is really into me... like really into me... and I've had to say to him last night that we don't really know each other.... we live in 2 different states.... and I'm still not D. But, I said I'm happy to meet up and spend time with him but he needs to temper his expectations.
I've been on 2 dates if you can call it that??? One guy I met up for a 6mile hike. Because I didn't want it to turn into a serious dating thing I kept my distance for a month. I like to go on hikes but as a single woman I'm very careful where I go and I make sure I know the area well. I'm okay in some new areas when I take my dog but there are some places where the hike isn't super dog friendly and I will not go alone. The other guy was definitely an interesting character and we had fun going out one night --- but he ran and hot and cold. I wished him luck and moved on.
My goal was to make it kayaking this summer... hasn't happened yet. Met a woman who did go quite a bit and even had a second kayak and she invited me.... but never followed up. I found a place that does an underwater kayak thing but it will require some travel... so fingers crossed.
I've got a huge knitting project going on right now...
I spent 10k on new carpet for the house. I was hoping to get it installed while my son was still home but it looks like they can't get to me until the end of August. Its a 4 day job and not looking forward to moving all my furniture.
I still haven't found a ceiling guy but my new neighbor is a contractor. After they get settled in I'll hit up for some help!!! And, if I still have any energy left I might tackle repainting a couple of rooms but that may be best done when the kid moves out completely!
I'm doing my best to stay busy. I won't lie. I still wish this issue with my STBXH would turn around. But, it is what it is.
Nice update, KC. I know this is tough but glad you're keeping so busy. And even if you might get folks here who think you should have let the tech do the booster, I'm glad your dog got to see you. That is super cute.
Any thoughts on considering therapy again? Could be a great outlet for you.
And finally--your employer should be able to add you onto the clinic's health care program as soon as the D is through-- considered a "qualifying life event" so you don't have to wait until the next open enrollment period.
May -
The dog is like a shared child. I raised it for the first 7 months. It will always also be my dog. I will not turn down an opportunity to see the dog. Truth be told STBXH drives an hour each way so that I get to see the dog. Its really about the dog. Everytime I see him or have him while STBXH is out of town I'm reminded how much I miss and love this dog. But the dog really loves my STBXH too. The dog gets to live his best life as inlaws have 100acres. He gets to go camping. STBXH gives him a good life.
As for the insurance we are a very small business and we have no company plan. My employer is covered by his wife. I had been covered for the last 10yr by my STBXH. I literally have to negotiate a policy with my employer. It will be a 2-4 week process. By my original contract he is supposed to provide health care... but when I got married my STBXH had a much better coverage for NO additional cost to him what so ever so it was a no brainer I drop my work coverage.
I'm sure my STBXH is not happy about the delay but he is at the very least NOT dragging me over the coals for it. In fact he hasn't said a single negative thing about it to me. Now, I'm sure he has thrown me under the bus to other people but I have no control of that.
Off to practice my ukulele...
KitCat, I've been wondering about you. I <3 your update. It's one of the strongest I've seen so far. (:
He doesn't email me back.... rather he sticks to texting me.
That's okay, right? You control how you send messages. He controls how he sends messages. I see it as a step towards detachment that you're shifting to e-mail. Consider blocking his texts if they trigger you.
He is a nice guy and he is really into me... like really into me... and I've had to say to him last night that we don't really know each other.... we live in 2 different states.... and I'm still not D. But, I said I'm happy to meet up and spend time with him but he needs to temper his expectations.
You said he's really into "you", but doesn't know much more about "you" than how you look. If you're both seeking a fling, this could be a match. If either of you are seeking something deeper I'd be wary of someone with no standards. To be clear, you may be quite a catch for a relationship--and we know you have many strong character traits--but if he doesn't know you, he doesn't know that. Why so excited? (:
he needs to temper his expectations.
You can be clear about your expectations. You can't control his expectations.
My goal was to make it kayaking this summer... hasn't happened yet. Met a woman who did go quite a bit and even had a second kayak and she invited me.... but never followed up. I found a place that does an underwater kayak thing but it will require some travel... so fingers crossed.
Good luck! I'm lucky I met a nice woman willing to lend me her paddleboards What's an underwater kayak?!
Off to practice my ukulele...
You're the third woman this week taking ukelele classes! What's driving this craze?!
Any thoughts on considering therapy again? Could be a great outlet for you.
PS - I restarted therapy again this Monday.
Hey CW ---
It was supposed to be underground kayaking!!! LOL stupid autocorrect!
Anyway trying to figure out how to make that happen. I would need 3 days because its a ways from me.
Right now I'm at peace.... I'm not looking to stir the hornets nest by digging things up. Therapy will be on the beach in Daytona... then moving my kid back to college followed by a 4 day carpet instill. That carpet install is the whole house which means going thru everything, moving extra large pieces of furniture... by the end I will have been able to scour the last of STBXH stuff from the house. From what I can tell I just have a few boxes of stuff to separate. I started to go through those boxes when I found my favorite picture of my STBXH and my SD19 from years ago... I had to put it back and walk away. The carpet install will be forced get it done kind of thing.
I'm in the process of buying all new bedding and towels. I had already started redoing both bathrooms. I lived in this house 5years before I met my STBXH but I still trying to freshening things up. I still have family pictures up. I've never been the type to cut up pictures or throw stuff out... that was my life. I still have pictures of my S20 of his dad and I... in my opinion they belong to S20. I'm not going to throw out that part of my life just because it didn't work. If my step kids ever come by for a visit I don't want them to feel like I just cut them out. Baby steps....
I slacked off on exercising... so my goal this week is to get back at it... but its been so darn hot!
Today was a great day!
Work has been unbelievably busy... the busiest month I have worked in nearly 30yr.
Anyway at work today around 2pm and I get a text from SS21 asking if I'm working today. Now I texted him a month ago when he was making the cross country drive to return home after his service. Told him to be safe and if he ever needed anything he had my number. He moved in with dad upon returning home.
SS21 texted back he'd see me soon.
What? Wow...
So about an hour later in comes into my office to chat. He was in my town at our financial advisors office - he has an inheritance. Anyway that office is right next to mine so he thought about stopping by to say hello!
I'm over the moon!!!
Man was he a hard kid to raise... but I love him as much as my own. I just tread carefully because I'm not really a parent and I don't want him to feel like I'm pressuring him to be in my life. He's had some slip ups in life but don't we all. Deep down he is a good kid with some personal goals he'd like to meet.
It really made my day!!!!!
Good stuff KK. I am happy for you!
Well yesterday was weird.... woke up to a text from STBXH
H: Well that was a weird dream
^^^OK???? Random. Last time he texted me was over a week ago asking about signing the D. I only responded with business items via email.
But, curiosity got to the cat....
Me: What was weird about it?
H: You were in it.
H: You were sort of holding me hostage.
M: Interesting
He continued to text about his dream which was ultimately a sex dream. I quit responding but couldn't stop giggling. For starters while he is shacked up with the skank he is not only having sex dreams about me but is also wanting to discuss them with me... wonder if she knows??? HaHa.
He texted later apologizing and that he probably should not have said anything... I didn't respond.
It doesn't mean anything. I have no expectations. I leave for the beach in 5 days!!!!
For starters while he is shacked up with the skank he is not only having sex dreams about me but is also wanting to discuss them with me... wonder if she knows??? HaHa.
This is the price for dating low lifes like your STBXH. She is always going to sleep with one eye open.
He texted later apologizing and that he probably should not have said anything... I didn't respond.
He didn't get the response he wanted. He was seeing if you were available for a booty call. Great job and not be interested in being the OW and sloppy seconds.
It doesn't mean anything.
It does mean something. Your STBXH is a dirt bag. Be glad he's not your problem anymore.
I suppose I have way too much empathy but I choose not to call my STBXH names. For starters it doesn't make me feel better and then what does it say about me??? I spent a decade with a dirtbag???
It's not my style.
I got to a point where I'm okay with D. Don't want it but I won't die from it. All that needs done is for my employer to get health care for me... everything else is done, agreed upon and printed.
The change in my STBXH texting about a sex dream I was in was certainly strange and unexpected. He's never learned in like that before in the last 18 months.
I waited a couple of days and sent some texts... that were well received. I'm an adult and I'm aware of my choices. After 48hr of hard core flirting I chose to meetup at 4am at an intersection of 2 highways under a 4 way flasher for some seriously hot and raunchy sex in a car.
I had no expectations.
He seemed really sweet before he left with small talk, opening the door and a goodbye kiss... things I never thought I'd see from him again.
It didn't bother that I didnt hear from him... who knows what inner turnoul he is dealing with. I just had to get through till Monday to hop my flight for my vaca... which is amazing!!!
After 5 days I pondered... is he ghosting me? Or does he think I'm ghosting him? There was some humility befor ghosting him.
Having no expectations and being completely at peace if he got what he wanted and he was done I reached out teasing him about ghosting me... his response was he was starting to think I was ghosting him... so he's a little insecure...
He was then all... how are you, how is vaca, blah blah blah. He started opening up more about himself and not just 3 word sentences. He's had some serious health issues lately and is dealing with a lot of chronic pain. From what I can gather he is spending all his free time out of his house and volunteering physical labor at a veteran campsite.
I didn't want the convo to drag out so I said I have to be on the beach 30min before sun up so I need some sleep... he was very sweet in wishing me goodnight.
I have no expectations.
I'm prepared that the next time we talk it might be about the D.
It just doesn't matter anymore. I'm at peace and I regret nothing... he was more my booty call than the other way around... lol
Hey KitCat,
I'm glad you had some seriously raunchy sex. No judgment here. Maybe a bit of jealousy, lol!
I didn't want the convo to drag out.
Is this tactical? You care but are cutting conversations short.
My biggest worry is that you still don't want a D. Like you, I don't like to call people names like "dirt bag", but I do recognize he lies, cheats, is abusive, and is manipulative. I worry you still haven't gotten to a place where you want to D him, that you're still open to a relationship with him when you deserve either a life solo or a worthy partner. I also worry some part of you wasn't concerned about meeting him in a deserted place at 4am. I do risky things. I let someone know where I'm going and carry protection.
Imagine you were outside your body, perhaps a sister/hermana/sestra, someone who loves you. What sort of partner do you deserve? Are his actions in-line with that?
I get it CW....
2 other people knew where I was at... and I knew exactly what I signed up for when I met him. Literally no strings attached. Had he wanted to ghost me... such is life. But given our propensity for miscommunication I wanted to make sure he didn't feel i was ghosting him.
I really am okay with the D.... theres part of me that even thinks division of property would be a good thing. That allows me to take care of myself. He was sharing how much he had overspent on his past 2 vacas and how the OT has dried up for the time... it will come back cause it always does.
Cutting the phone call short was tactical in a way... I truly had to get up super early. But, by making myself a priority because I have things planned shows him I have a life. Also it's based on the zeigarnik effect... where as people remember uncompleted tasks more than completed ones. He will be spending the day wondering why I had to be up early on vaca for... that creates curiosity which is the precursor to attraction.
Recon? Not even close. But, I'm able to accept him where he is at at this time. I have a list of must havesif it ever got there.
In the meantime no strings attached sex will work for awhile.... there is something to be said for someone you've known 10yr... you know exactly what buttons to push and when as well as vice versa... best sex I've had in a while....
2 other people knew where I was at... In the meantime no strings attached sex will work for awhile.... there is something to be said for someone you've known 10yr... you know exactly what buttons to push and when as well as vice versa... best sex I've had in a while.... smile
Glad to hear you were playing safe, KitCat! This part makes sense to me. And, again, a little jealous lol.
The willingness to take him back does not compute. ::shrug::
Enjoy your vacation! Look forward to hearing about your continuing adventures.
So he’s still a cheater. Except this time you are the OW. At least he’s consistent!
Be careful, Kit. I think you are prolonging your recovery. You can talk about how detached you are and that this has no emotional impact for you, but I don’t think you’re being honest with yourself.
In any case, enjoy it while it lasts.
All I can say is very predictable.
This will set you back in the long run because there will be expectations.
Like we say on the board "cheaters cheat because that's what they do".
Now if there was only a way you could somehow let OW find out. Hmmmmm......
The pilot is the smartest man in the world.
Now if there was only a way you could somehow let OW find out. Hmmmmm......
Bingo.
Now if there was only a way you could somehow let OW find out. Hmmmmm......
You could argue that KK is now the OW !
Broken !
This is both sad and scary to read. A board, a place, a community designed as a heathy place for advice and accountability is turning into a Jerry Springer spinoff. Then again, given the craziness and crazy behavior of our country in the last 2 years it’s all falling right in line. I purchased a new car a few months ago and received a free trial to satellite radio. Among the hundreds of channels is a long running psychotherapist (doctor) I used to listen to many years ago whose mantra is “now go do the right thing.” If you think your behavior, responses and reactions are doing the right thing then I’m not sure we can help. Then I see others here nearly just as broken cheering you on.
Just so sad.
Now go do the right thing.
What exactly is KK supposed to let the OW know? That her boyfriend who is still married is a cheater? I think she already knows that all things considered. How does it solve the obviously glaring issues Kat has to create even more drama and issues. Who do we all really think her husband is going to blame if his girlfriend finds out? Why even attempt to tempt a woman who was abused by her husband to put herself in a situation where that could happen again but maybe even worse. Who knows how desperate he’ll feel. Better yet, everyone with any common sense to even suggest she does something that could make her husband potentially say screw it I have nothing else I may as well go back to my last resort which is Kat, fix my marriage and hit her again.
How do you have sex with your spouse whom you still admit you don’t wanna divorce but yet have no expectations. This is flat out impossible, and ridiculous to even attempt to convince us or anyone else.
This to me this is a flat out disaster. Maybe other people can handle it, but who knows how many bar dates you’ve been on, you became obsessed with a man who was under the impression he was in a no strings attached relationship with you to the point you showed up half naked at his front door. Yet you still love someone who abuses you and sleep with him.
I’m not a licensed anything, but to me you come across as someone with absolutely no self worth or value. You got away 18 month ago from someone who abused you, and cheated and you can’t let that go. Well apparently you can, I mean the pilot, but than run right back when you have no one else.
I’m sure you were proud of yourself and it made you feel better than the OW to finally give her some “pay back”, but it doesn’t change the fact, he hit you, cheated, and left.
I’m with Doug, I can’t even believe people are cheering this on. And Steve hit the nail squarely on the head.
It saddens me that none of you think that I did not have internal dialogue about the whole situation.
The OW is not my responsibility... whatever or not she knows will never come from me. Was there a part of me that felt bad for her when my H texted about a dream he had about me... yes there was. I took my time and 3 days to decide what it is I want for myself.... for me. Of course there is a part of me laughing at OW cause he is cheating on his mistress with his wife.
I'm a 50yr old adult and now more than ever realize I've got one life and I'm living it with zero regrets.
I'm allowed heal... to come to terms with what i contributed to the breakdown of my M but my H is not??? Shame on all of you!!! He's been dealing with his health issues... he quit smoking... he's addressing his PTSD. I've seen and heard a different man this week.
Is he even still with OW??? I have no idea. I've never snooped... I don't go to either of their SM. I've never even driven by the house he bought. Not my business.
What I will share is that 2 wks before my H reached out I noticed a strange car in the area of my home. There is only one way into and out of my neighborhood and the road leading to that is only traveled by the locals... it's out of the way for nearly everything.... why did this car randomly catch my attention??? Personalized plates. I have a very unusual name and at 50yr old still hear how unusual from people... but OWs disabled daughter has an even more unusual name with unique spelling... and yep... the plates on that car were that unique name and spelling. I live an hour from my H... why is she driving round my hood???
I have been 100% transparent that I never wanted D.... still don't... but I also know I'm going to be fine no matter what and yes Joeseph I have no expectations. My H has his journey and I have mine... I will not apologize for having sex with my H... my choice...
This ain't DBing.........never was. KC what do you want to get from this forum? Why would a man that lives with another woman, but still gets to bang his wife, ever not go through with the D? Is the D going to be some magic moment where you close your legs to this man? Did you practice safe sex? Or did you just wantonly let him share his bodily fluids with you despite that he does that with at least one other woman, if not more? No fear of STDs?
Yes you are a 50 year old woman. You get to do whatever you want. No one disputes that. What we all have spent years trying to get you to see is that you do not live in reality. You make excuses. You twist the truth. You repeat "No expectations" over and over and over again as if from much talking it will be true. You are a hot mess, and will never be whole by yourself until you recognize that and stop with the excuses. Of course, if you even decide to respond to this it will be with more excuses, rationalizations, insistences that you have no expectations, and continuing to shout to the rest of the world that they are the ones that are crazy, and you are perfectly sane!
Good luck to you. I hope you find the happiness you search for. But if you think this man has changed you are in for a world of hurt and let down. I wish I had a dollar for every abused woman, that took their abuser back, that insisted that "this time will be different!". I'd be giving millions away to charity because I'd have too much money for me and my next 3 generations to ever spend.
Is he even still with OW???
Yes, he is. It's why you had sex in a vehicle at 4am on the side of the road as opposed to one your houses.
Kit, you're right, it's your life to do what you want with it. So do you.
But, if you think you're going to come here and get buy-in or convince us (maybe to convince yourself?) that your husband has changed his cheating and lying ways, I just don't think anyone here will get onboard with that.
The honesty here is brutal, but it is honest. And I don't think you would want us to blow smoke up your a$$, right?
Again, your life, your decision. But I think you are setting yourself up for another fall.
Why did we meet at 4am in a car on the highway????
1. We live an hr apart.... this kept him from driving 2hr. He also works nights and I work days... meeting half way worked better for both of us.
2. It was a trip down memory lane and a nod to our early marriage.
I'm not so dumb to just take my H back. Right now recon is not even on the table. I need to see changed behavior over time but what I have seen has been pretty impressive.
I already wrote out that I have a list of items that have to be net before recon could ever be considered.
I'm just living in the moment. No expectations. I'm not putting any pressure on anyone including myself. Im okay with however this ends. I have plans. I have a life. I stay busy.
I was not perfect in my marriage. I am not without fault. Sure , I did not cheat and would never cheat... I also would not abuse alcohol or do lines of coke. I have a friend dealing with a marriage crisis. Her H is in an affair but honestly ended up there because he felt for years she was having an affair with alcohol. She is working on her sobriety.
I don't know how this is going to turn. But, I truly have no expectations either way.
So you had an internal dialogue. OK. Glad you ok'd your behavior with yourself. That means nothing. There's a huge difference between thinking about something just long enough so you can convince yourself it wasn't impulsive and actual introspection.
You don't have to apologize for sleeping with your H. You don't have to regret it. Honestly if you want to get some sick satisfaction out of pulling one over on OW so be it. You're an adult no one can police you. But like everything else you do impulsively this will end badly. And you'll be mad at me and everyone else who tells you this is only going to end badly.
This wasn't closure or healing. Nor was it just some fun one off romp in the hay for good ol' times sake. Don't disguise it as such. You weren't looking for a last dance booty call. You're trying to hang on to the last threads of this (based on your words and no one else's) crappy marriage with sex. But you don't want to acknowledge that's what's happening here. And you're about to be in yet another world of hurt because of it. You do have expectations. Big ones. The future here is pretty bleak but those expectation of yours are clear as the light of day.
As I and many others have been saying for some time you need to get into therapy. Please seriously look into this. You need help to stop your toxic self sabotaging cycles. It's the same schtick with a new coat of paint every time.
Then I see others here nearly just as broken cheering you on.
I'm not sure which of MrBrside, Thornton, Steve, LH, or I that you mean. Possibly me? My journal posts may come across as more vulnerable than I am. I struggle to keep my home and car organized, but I have a teenage daughter who talks to me, I'm a top performer at work, I have a network of friends, I'm enjoying life's adventures, and my health is in solid shape.
I told KitKat getting back together with someone who lies, cheats, and is abusive should be off the table. I want to see her self-esteem rise to the point she never considers that. Therapy would really help.
I also have her back. I've been writing on KitKat's thread for months. She has a sweet side that cares for animals and wants to do right for her son and stepson. I'm not sure if or how we can help her move past this guy, to being happy alone, to a healthy relationship. I'll call out her actions, not the person I want to build up?
KC, all I know about you is what I read here, and what I read here is a desperate cry for help from a person that is driving at blinding speed down a course of self-destruction while trying to paint it as self-improvement. This man physically and emotionally abused you and even now that he's gone and in another relationship, he still has an extremely strong hold over you that you seem powerless to escape. I'm honestly afraid for you, at best the emotional trauma from this will likely last the rest of your life, at worst your husband's violence or his girlfriend's anger may make that life unnaturally short.
We've said over and over again to seek professional help. And your response is always that you had a bad experience. When I was a kid I had an extremely traumatic experience with a dentist that involved physical and emotional abuse. As horrible as it was, I still needed dental care, and sought it elsewhere and have since had many really good dental experiences. You are dealing with serious emotional issues and there are many great doctors out there that can put you on a path to healing. Don't let a past bad experience stop you from getting the help you so desperately need.
KC, I do strongly support AnotherStander's message.
Then I see others here nearly just as broken cheering you on.
I'm not sure which of MrBrside, Thornton, Steve, LH, or I that you mean. Possibly me? My journal posts may come across as more vulnerable than I am. I struggle to keep my home and car organized, but I have a teenage daughter who talks to me, I'm a top performer at work, I have a network of friends, I'm enjoying life's adventures, and my health is in solid shape.
I told KitKat getting back together with someone who lies, cheats, and is abusive should be off the table. I want to see her self-esteem rise to the point she never considers that. Therapy would really help.
I also have her back. I've been writing on KitKat's thread for months. She has a sweet side that cares for animals and wants to do right for her son and stepson. I'm not sure if or how we can help her move past this guy, to being happy alone, to a healthy relationship. I'll call out her actions, not the person I want to build up?
Yo CWs for the record he’s definitely talking about you.
I personally find KK’s posts, actions and justifications disrespectful to the many who have spent countless hours of their own time posting here to try and help her.
She may be still legally married to her ex, but he has a new life and another woman.
KK has become that other woman now IMO and is trying to justify her actions..
The sane way the hundreds of other OW / OM tried to justify their actions when they slept with the LBS of this board.. The WW could have said no, not they carried on as well.. how is KK any different..
Just my 2 cents, but her actions are rubbing it in the face of every LBS here.. very disrespectful.
Yo CWs for the record he’s definitely talking about you.
Figures. Messy sink. Guilty! I feel blessed by my life most days. While I could use your advice re: my date tonight, I anticipate a good weekend and year whether I couple up or remain single.
Well I for one feel completely thrown under the bus...
Yes, my STBXH has some serious anger issues... many months before dday it was broached that he has PTSD like many combat veterans. His best friend tried having a talk with me but his timing was completely off...
My H has been doing the work... addressing the issues. There was humility when he contacted. He is still wrestling with guilt and shame.
To say I'm disrespectful and rubbing every LBS faces in it.... is completely mean and almost hateful.
I'm a human being. I went through a terrible loss. It's been an interesting journey but I no longer feel lost or broken. I own my choices. I did not come here because I was ashamed of my actions. This is a divorce busting forum and I was sharing my journey. Choose to believe me or not but I am not outcome dependent. The D is actually the best thing financially for me.
I can't be the OW while I'm still legally married... sorry, until the D she is and will remain the OW. AND, I owe her nothing. She's a fly on rotting meat.
I chose to have sex with my H.... in a car... at the side of the road because it was HOT. Sex is what we always got right. It's no different than swiping right on Tinder... well I take that back it is... because after 10yr you know what works and theres no discussing it.
If I never see my H again or if in 2 weeks I've got health insurance and I'm signing the D I have no regrets over the sex.
CW don't accept their disrespect.
I have come here meaning harm to no one. I don't feel that I've ever gone out of my way to say a mean thing to anyone, yet I have been bullied. There is so much negativity on this board in general. It's become clear why it seems to be dying off.
I've always appreciated the veterans here but there needs to be serious change if you feel that attacking members is the way to promote yourselves.
Yo CWs for the record he’s definitely talking about you.
Just about P’d my pants after I read this.
As for your comments and response CW, these are your words verbatim. They are not taken out of context. They were not coerced or forced. This is your response.
I'm glad you had some seriously raunchy sex. No judgment here. Maybe a bit of jealousy, lol!
You’re happy or in your words glad for her. You have no judgement and in fact are jealous of her. Just how else can that be taken?
I struggle to keep my home and car organized, but I have a teenage daughter who talks to me, I'm a top performer at work, I have a network of friends, I'm enjoying life's adventures, and my health is in solid shape.
This sounds to me like many, many people. It’s sort of a minimum, or a baseline to aspire to - not a pinnacle model for others to aspire to. Most people have some struggles, yours is cleaning. Okay. You have a daughter who talks to you? Well I’d hope all children spoke with their parents. This is an accomplishment? You have friends. That’s good, most people do. You have a job where you do well. Again, I’d hope that’s the case for everyone. You’re in good health, again that’s good. I guess I just fail to see what your point is and just how having a D that talks to you along with friends and a job relates to cheering on and being jealous of very self destructive, quite possibly damaging behavior from someone clearly struggling to do the right thing and badly in need of professional help. It’s our job to hold fellow posters accountable not cheer them on and be jealous of their destructive behaviors. At least that’s the way I see it. Maybe I’m the one not getting it. I just don’t think so.
The behavior being described and exhibited is anything BUT DBing. And I thought it was the principles of DBing that we were all here for, not the principles of Jerry Springer.
It’s sort of a minimum, or a baseline to aspire to - not a pinnacle model for others to aspire to.
Don, I'm not impressed by your attempts to belittle or bully me. I do not plan to engage or converse with you again. Have a nice day. (:
So, just for $hits and giggles, let's dissect CW's original post:
Hey KitCat,
I'm glad you had some seriously raunchy sex. No judgment here. Maybe a bit of jealousy, lol!
Originally Posted by KitCat
I didn't want the convo to drag out.
Is this tactical? You care but are cutting conversations short.
My biggest worry is that you still don't want a D. Like you, I don't like to call people names like "dirt bag", but I do recognize he lies, cheats, is abusive, and is manipulative. I worry you still haven't gotten to a place where you want to D him, that you're still open to a relationship with him when you deserve either a life solo or a worthy partner. I also worry some part of you wasn't concerned about meeting him in a deserted place at 4am. I do risky things. I let someone know where I'm going and carry protection.
Imagine you were outside your body, perhaps a sister/hermana/sestra, someone who loves you. What sort of partner do you deserve? Are his actions in-line with that?
To me, the first line reads like an attempt to connect with KC and let her know she's supported. I'm sure that CW (like all of us who read KC's original post) knew she was going to get slammed, hard, for this behavior. And those of us who have followed KC's story know by now that slamming 2x4s hasn't helped her change her unhealthy behaviors in the past. I read this as CW relating and validating her experience such that she didn't shut down and get defensive, and perhaps would be more open to the remainder of what he was trying to say. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is how I interpreted this line of CW's.
I think it is not right then to take that one line out of context. Read the rest:
My biggest worry is that you still don't want a D. Like you, I don't like to call people names like "dirt bag", but I do recognize he lies, cheats, is abusive, and is manipulative. I worry you still haven't gotten to a place where you want to D him, that you're still open to a relationship with him when you deserve either a life solo or a worthy partner. I also worry some part of you wasn't concerned about meeting him in a deserted place at 4am. I do risky things. I let someone know where I'm going and carry protection.
Imagine you were outside your body, perhaps a sister/hermana/sestra, someone who loves you. What sort of partner do you deserve? Are his actions in-line with that?
Reading this, especially the last piece-- I thought there was a good chance taking this angle could get through to KC. What would someone who loves you say?
CW has consistently shown himself to be a caring, smart, and empathetic person. He looks within and makes changes. He struggles, like all of us, but I would never call him broken or characterize this post as cheering KC on, taken in full context. Just wanted to say this for the record. We're all supposed to be here to help each other.
I had stopped posting on KC's thread because it didn't seem like anything anyone said ever got through. Suggestions are met with excuses why it doesn't work. But reading this I am compelled to echo again what many others have said and please, KitKat, get some professional help. You deserve it. There is nothing wrong with getting professional support. There is no reason that you can't overcome your fears of this just as you've overcome so many other obstacles.
You responded defensively in your last post, but you didn't address AnotherStander. Can you respond to him directly?
HUGS. May
The behavior being described and exhibited is anything BUT DBing. And I thought it was the principles of DBing that we were all here for, not the principles of Jerry Springer.
Sadly, the principles of DB’ing are becoming harder and harder to see here by the day.
It’s sort of a minimum, or a baseline to aspire to - not a pinnacle model for others to aspire to.
Don, I'm not impressed by your attempts to belittle or bully me. I do not plan to engage or converse with you again. Have a nice day. (:
CWs for the record I wasn’t saying your broken just that Don was definitely referring to you because you were the only once cheering her on.
Dating advice. Hangout, have fun and hook up.
You have no expectations huh? Ok sure. You’re in love with a man who happens to be your husband who you want back, slept with him and have no expectations? You’re in some sort of incredibly deep denial.
Do you actually hear yourself? You at 50yrs old drove an hour to have sex with abusive husband in a car because it was convenient? You live alone correct? Are hotels not an option? An hour drive to have sex is convenient? No there are motives there you are not sharing but everyone can see.
I really think we just need to view this thread as “for entertainment purposes only”.
Job.... Cadet... is it possible to have my threads deleted???
I'm tired and worn out by being bullied and being others "entertainment purposes"
People only read what they want... not that my H has been working on his broken parts. Sadly I see here many that need to work on their broken parts.
I'm chastised about how wrong I am to drive an hour to have sex with my H but no where in Michelle's book does it state you should NOT have sex with your H. No one read that the event was a nod to our early marriage.... this is not our first or second or third rendezvous in a car... there is nothing wrong with recreating the happier parts of your M... it makes dealing with the more serious issues that we faced seem more fixable.
I'm not denying my Hs anger issues.... but if your spouse was alcoholic or a coke addict and they work through recovery can not a person work through their anger issues?
That being said Joseph please look up the meaning of unconditional love. Unconditional love is having love for someone and expecting nothing in return. Unconditional love is NOT a feeling it's a choice. I have unconditional love for my H. I don't need anything from him. I can never see him again and still love amd want the best for him everyday even if it's not me. The sun will still rise up in the east tomorrow. My current life plan does not resolve at all around my H.
As for AS. IC and that setting will never work for me. Boundaries were broken... legal ones. It will never be a safe place for me. But I have joined a group and its helped tremendously. Its been well over a year now with them. I don't discuss it here becasue well... I don't want that part of my life trashed too. According to my group I'm thriving. I'm fantastic. I've done a lot of hard work and I've been there immensely for others. It's just weird that their opinion of me and
my journey is so radically different from how I'm trashed talked here.
Job... Cadet... I think there needs to be more addressing of how this should be a safe place and that some members are taking out whatever short comings in their own life out onto others. I have never been anything other than truthful and raw about my journey and healing. Some of you need to take a harder look at your own brokenness. Thank goodness I'm at a stronger place than a year ago... some of your comments could have pushed a weaker person into some serious life ending decisions.
A vast many of you need to learn and practice more empathy. Its completely okay to say given my circumstances you would have not chose to drive to meet your estranged spouse... every one has their own opinion and choices... but to simply mock me as entertainment because I did do that is completely wrong.
KC, goodbye and good luck. I sincerely hope you find the peace and happiness you seek.
But I do have to correct one thing, MWD NEVER suggests continuing to have sex with someone that is in an active affair. That puts your health at risk. If your WAS is not in a PA then yes, she and many other experts say that engaging in sex with your WAS is ok. I needed to correct that for any other posters that might read your last post.
KK,
I wish you the best too. You never embraced DB and you walk to the beat of your own drum which you have to respect. Time heels all wounds.
Just for the record MWD does not endorse sleeping with spouse who is having affair. May be time to give it another peek.
Take care.
Kit,
When this all plays out, and you are once again left devestated by your H, you will look back and see that everyone here was merely trying to protect you from yourself. To help you move forward. To help hold you accountable in an effort to help you find the TRUE happiness that you deserve.
You are confusing unconditional love with an addiction to your H. No, you aren’t his W, he lives with and has sex with another woman, and he has for a long time now. You are the Ow that he is cheating on his partner with. You can deny that until you are blue in the face, but it’s a fact.
Truly, I think you are a good person, and you deserve a man that will cherish you. But you do self sabotage and then stubbornly defend your decisions. Maybe, just maybe, some of us here are right when we say it would be worthwhile and smart of you to invest in some therapy. When we suggest that, it comes from a place of love, not judgement.
If you do decide to leave the board, I wish you well.
I’m sorry you view this as bullying. That was never the intent. The intent to to hopefully make yourself look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable. Because you justify bad decisions, and you have an issue with anyone who disagrees with you.
KitKat, please read Steve’s post. MWD also doesn’t recommend staying or fixing a marriage that involves abuse.
I’m aware of what unconditional love is. But unconditional loves isn’t an excuse or justification for bad choices. I love my kids unconditionally, but if they make an unwise choice, or a dangerous one, I don’t stand back as say, well that’s ok, because I love them.
I don’t understand why you seem to take my post so personally. You seem to be able to ignore everyone that disagrees or says something you don’t like, but take my post personally. Let me assure you, I’m raising 4 daughters, one who was abused horrendously, and 3 who got to witness it. 2 weeks ago my second oldest, said “Dad, you know what’s messed up, I thought the way D16 was treated and the lying Mom did to get the rest of us in trouble was normal in every family”. KitKat, I fear abuse has been normalized with you.
Btw, someone still involved in an active affair, meeting woman at 4am an hour away to have sex in a car isn’t working on their past transgressions. Their working on getting a piece of action because they’re a serial cheater. Leaving her, getting therapy, being alone for a while, fixing their relationship with the kids, and than you would be working on their issues. It’s just sad to me you’ll never see that because you need counseling.
Edit…let me just add, how do you claim unconditional love when you had an affair with the pilot, where ready to divorce your husband, and move completely along with the pilot and was crushed when he didn’t return the feelings? Did you unconditionally love your H than?
Feel free to keep posting. I don’t have much to add to your situation. And it’s obvious you don’t want any advice unless it agrees with your own point of view.
Good luck, and please stay safe.
Don, I'm not impressed by your attempts to belittle or bully me. I do not plan to engage or converse with you again. Have a nice day. (:
Bullying? Oh C'mon, seriously? Why not thrown in racism as well since it appears in today's world rather than debate or discuss we just try to claim bulling or being racists rather than discuss the actual topic - which is exactly what I was trying to do - get you to defend your comments. Stand behind what you say - don't deflect. Was I a bit harsh and perhaps belittling you - yeah I guess a bit. I still don't know what your support of destructive behavior has to do with you doing well at work or having your D talk to you. What's the connection? Or are you trying to prove your a solid human? If so, I would have lead with being an amazing cook. From what you've described here you can put most of us to shame with the things you create sometimes last minute for a picnic. You are doing great at GAL activities and clearly make friends very easily. You've somehow attracted the attention and secured dates with far more women in a shorter time frame than 90% of on line daters - or at least 90% of those I know or have heard stories from. I'd be leading with some of these but again I still don't know how it relates.
I'm simply trying to get people to actually start using their minds and do some critical thinking - something that has clearly gone out the window in our current sheep mentality of today's society - just follow what one "expert" says, don't dare question and if you do we'll remove your posts (Facebook, YouTube, Twitter I'm talking to you) or just claim you are racist. We need to hold people accountable. Clearly, there are many ways to do that. I often take a much clearer, stronger stand. But an softer yet clear response can be made. But to say you are jealous of clearly destructive behavior is beyond anything I can understand. You could have have either defended what you said, told me why I was wrong, or could have said, yeah, you're right, I should not have said that, or even clarified like May tried to do for you. But to play the bully card is well, lame and simply not true. If everything becomes bullying, like everything becoming sexual harassment, it erodes actual bullying or harassment. It's much easier to try to throw a label and run for a safe space or security animal or something than it is to articulate your beliefs and point of view. But like with everything, it's always our choice to do the right thing. I may be a lot of things, but I'm not a bully.
Don, I'm not impressed by your attempts to belittle or bully me. I do not plan to engage or converse with you again. Have a nice day. (:
Bullying? Oh C'mon, seriously? Why not thrown in racism as well since it appears in today's world rather than debate or discuss we just try to claim bulling or being racists rather than discuss the actual topic - which is exactly what I was trying to do - get you to defend your comments. Stand behind what you say - don't deflect. Was I a bit harsh and perhaps belittling you - yeah I guess a bit. I still don't know what your support of destructive behavior has to do with you doing well at work or having your D talk to you. What's the connection? Or are you trying to prove your a solid human? If so, I would have lead with being an amazing cook. From what you've described here you can put most of us to shame with the things you create sometimes last minute for a picnic. You are doing great at GAL activities and clearly make friends very easily. You've somehow attracted the attention and secured dates with far more women in a shorter time frame than 90% of on line daters - or at least 90% of those I know or have heard stories from. I'd be leading with some of these but again I still don't know how it relates.
I'm simply trying to get people to actually start using their minds and do some critical thinking - something that has clearly gone out the window in our current sheep mentality of today's society - just follow what one "expert" says, don't dare question and if you do we'll remove your posts (Facebook, YouTube, Twitter I'm talking to you) or just claim you are racist. We need to hold people accountable. Clearly, there are many ways to do that. I often take a much clearer, stronger stand. But an softer yet clear response can be made. But to say you are jealous of clearly destructive behavior is beyond anything I can understand. You could have have either defended what you said, told me why I was wrong, or could have said, yeah, you're right, I should not have said that, or even clarified like May tried to do for you. But to play the bully card is well, lame and simply not true. If everything becomes bullying, like everything becoming sexual harassment, it erodes actual bullying or harassment. It's much easier to try to throw a label and run for a safe space or security animal or something than it is to articulate your beliefs and point of view. But like with everything, it's always our choice to do the right thing. I may be a lot of things, but I'm not a bully.
I read it the same way you did at first. But I think May is 100% correct. CW has always been the most compassionate person posting here. I think he was trying to relate on her level.
But let’s try to stay on topic. No need to go on a rant about society in general. Bringing up racism was just…bizarre
What in the actual sweet baby jesus CPAC talking points was that tirade?
No, it's not cool to "cheer" on someone's serious logical, not even moral failings, because at this point we're way past moral fortitude. But it's also not the end of society as whole. My god man, it's not that serious.
Yes, Don it was a little gruff what you posted. CW is entitled to his feelings. A person can be offended when you say mean things. That's literally how feelings work.
LH instigated a tad but was almost entirely teasing not really instigating. Which he was very clear about.
May clarified for CW to try to dead this. Which CW wasn't obligated to do. No one is obligated to do, say, or feel anything. This is an internet board not family therapy.
Don, you taking this just as personally, and actually more personally than CW did and throwing around a lot of rhetoric that has nothing to do with anything going on here is making you look more like a bully than you actually were. Take a deep breath and maybe step back for a bit.
You were just stating your feelings. (Which I honestly agree with, while I didn't feel personally attacked like Joseph, I was mildly annoyed.)
CW stated his. (Which as stated was literally for the benefit of the poster only, not any of the rest of us, because she is hypersensitive to criticism)
You agree to disagree. The End.
This doesn't need to get personal. Or political. Let's let this die here and be done.
Can we hurry up and lock this thread so this can be done?? This 100 right??
I read it the same way you did at first. But I think May is 100% correct. CW has always been the most compassionate person posting here. I think he was trying to relate on her level.
Thing is, when does "relating" become "enabling"? The very last thing KK needs is enabling.
Don, you taking this just as personally,
Lol, not in the least. Passionately perhaps - personally, not even close.
Well on this I can certainly agree, LH is totally an instigator/agitator. But he did make me laugh.
Can we hurry up and lock this thread so this can be done??
This is a discussion board, so by all means, let's please end/stop any further discussion ASAP. SMH
OMG OMG OMG !!!!!!!! Praise the Lord and thank you Jesus! The edit button actually works - I just used it. It's a glorious day.
Actually, thank you JOB!!!! and the team!
Lol, not in the least. Passionately perhaps - personally, not even close.
Passion requires emotional investment. If you're emotionally invested in being called a bully it's personal.
This is a discussion board, so by all means, let's please end/stop any further discussion ASAP. SMH
I can play semantics too. Discussion board not squabble board....So yes I'd like to see this thread locked and done.
This is wasted space infighting over what bullying means. This is so beyond off topic it needs to be done.
I’m pretty sure Wayfarer and Don you are from the same area so you can hash this out in person.
I’m pretty sure Wayfarer and Don you are from the same area so you can hash this out in person.
If you're correct, it would have to one of our two liberal utopia's judging from the thought base. "If I don't agree with what you are saying or how you are saying it, the discussion needs to be stopped and locked." yep sounds about right for 2021. Now where did I put that CRT handbook.
In the meantime, I'm still giddy over having a functional edit button. Clearly my life has devolved to the point where the highlight of my Friday (at least so far) is an edit button on a forum I typically only post on every so often and have not had an active thread of my own for at least a year - but WE HAVE AN EDIT BUTTON - Who hoooooooo!!!!!!
OMG we have a "LIKE" button too! Can this day get any better? (LMAO)