Divorcebusting.com
edited to add, I forgot the Title should have Part 4 in it. Can someone fix this?

Link to Part 3 https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=63182&Number=2914996#Post2914996


Last year when WW was in an in-house separation with me (she is now living with OM) one of the things I would hear her say was "I'm not going to let you make me feel guilty" whenever I told her what she was doing was wrong.

I learned the hard way that you cannot reason with a WW. Even throwing truth darts doesn't penetrate their mental armor of self-justification. It just makes them more angry.

Now that she's gone and I have time to think (and yes I do GAL and other things as well), I am trying to fathom out how a wife and mother who had good morals can suddenly go wayward with no time in-between the transition. While the resentfulness had been brewing for a long time, the transition seemed to happen instantly - as if she got a software downgrade overnight.

Sandi mentioned that a WW's morals vanish and for how nobody knows. My WW has thrown everything away including moving to her dream house in her dream town. She now lives outside the school district. It's like everything that used to be important to her is no longer relevant.

I get the kids all school week and she has long weekends, and is more or less a nanny to OM's kids.

I think there is some guilt there deep down because someone told me she hasn't posted any pictures of herself and OM. I blocked her on social media ages ago. For some odd reason, she still has our wedding photos on her FB account.

How long is a WW able to live this delusional fantasy without feeling anything?
It seemed instantly to you but she likely check out a long time ago. Not worth your time to mind read about her FB account or what she’s feeling. It will likely be a really long time if ever that she feels remorse if ever.

Move on with your life.
Originally Posted by LH19
It seemed instantly to you but she likely check out a long time ago. Not worth your time to mind read about her FB account or what she’s feeling. It will likely be a really long time if ever that she feels remorse if ever.

Move on with your life.



She did check out a long time ago. I've only just started to have time to really think because my mind has been a bit of a blur lately. I blocked her on everything but occasionally ppl tell me what she's doing or posting. Last week she posted something to the effect that I was "a controlling ex" and we don't even talk. I've stopped caring to be honest.
I've been getting a lot of strange dreams over the last few weeks of me and WW. Sometimes we're in our old apartment. In every dream we're separated. I think my subconscious mind is trying to make sense of it all. On the rare times I do see her in person, like when she drops off or picks up the kids, I can feel the hostility towards me.
You are never going to be able to make sense of it all. Don’t not waste another minute trying. Decide how you want to live the rest of your life.
You're searching for answers. Consciously and subconsciously. Your body and brain don't want to go through such an ordeal again. What went wrong? Can I avoid this in the future? Was it something I did? Where was I in the wrong? Can I make peace with anything on my end? All questions that may be percolating.

LH has some of the best advice. Moving on is best. If you cant, maybe there is something you should dwell on for a short time, just dont get stuck on it. Facing what we may have contributed is the hardest part and maybe you need peace there. If you want to know what happened to her....well...why? If you knew what caused her change, then what? Why do you have to know the cause? Likely if your similar to me, it could be because you want your conscience clean. If you did contribute, face it head on and get through it. You've been through worse now so that piece would be easy if thats your case.

You'll find peace in time.
I have attempted to add Part 4 to your title, but your title is too long and it will not allow me to add "Part 4". If you want to change the title to something that isn't so long, I'll be happy to come back around and edit the title and add the "Part 4" for you.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I am trying to fathom out how a wife and mother who had good morals can suddenly go wayward with no time in-between the transition. While the resentfulness had been brewing for a long time, the transition seemed to happen instantly

The term for this is a tipping point. "[A] tipping point is that moment when a small change tips the balance of a system and brings about a large change;" Her values weren't leading her to happiness--you say there was a long period where resentment grew, and small changes might have delayed or avoided a tip, but once the boat flips it's hard to right. Humans generally don't want to remain unhappy.

When I was a WAH, after leaving my ex-wife, I questioned every value I'd been following, because they led me where I was. In my pursuit of happiness, I adopted a more minimal code of ethics--experimentation, metamorphosis to find self-fulfillment is more apt than downgrade--but some actions were wrong. It took years to rebuild my values system. My values now look little like pre-BD or post-BD.
Drh2001,

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Last year when WW was in an in-house separation with me (she is now living with OM) one of the things I would hear her say was "I'm not going to let you make me feel guilty" whenever I told her what she was doing was wrong.

I imagine they have to make it about you, not self-reflecting, otherwise they'd hate themselves too much.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
How long is a WW able to live this delusional fantasy without feeling anything?

Maybe never?

Originally Posted by LH19
You are never going to be able to make sense of it all. Don’t not waste another minute trying. Decide how you want to live the rest of your life.

I've heard that one from one friend of mine as recently as this weekend! Guess I'm too analytical. Do agree it's best to not dwell at this point, and move one.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
When I was a WAH, after leaving my ex-wife, I questioned every value I'd been following, because they led me where I was. In my pursuit of happiness, I adopted a more minimal code of ethics--experimentation, metamorphosis to find self-fulfillment is more apt than downgrade--but some actions were wrong. It took years to rebuild my values system. My values now look little like pre-BD or post-BD.

CWarrior - Just curious mostly...did you ever have doubt or regrets about being a WAH?
Originally Posted by BL42
CWarrior - Just curious mostly...did you ever have doubt or regrets about being a WAH?

I have regrets. Walking away from my ex-wife isn't one.

How much of one's life should one waste in an unhappy relationship?

My situation (a decade ago) was similar in that my marriage was poor for awhile, my LBS ignored my requests for therapy, and I moved on quickly after BD (in one month served her, moved out, one-night stand). My situation differs in that I left with my kids and had primary custody the decade after.
Originally Posted by Drh2001


How long is a WW able to live this delusional fantasy without feeling anything?


Potentially forever. From what I have witnessed a lot of WSs, (both husbands and wives!) usually have a good bit of Narcissistic personality disorder going on. Unless they get serious therapy for that likely it will never go away, and they will continue to chase a delusional fantasy without feeling anything until they do get help.

So if you are trying to wait that out I think it is a fool's game. You are better off doing the work you need to do on yourself and moving forward healthy and happy. It can be done but you have to stop worrying about her at all, stop worrying about what she has or hasn't posted on FB or what she still has up, and just focus on yourself and the kids.

Drh, you've got this. Upward and onward!
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Now that she's gone and I have time to think (and yes I do GAL and other things as well), I am trying to fathom out how a wife and mother who had good morals can suddenly go wayward with no time in-between the transition.


People love linear systems and immediate feedback -- I press the lever and I get a pellet. I can understand that.

Relationships are highly entangled, hugely complex organisms laden with long delay feedback loops, outside influences, historic baggage, etc. When relationships break down you want to put your finger on the exact "why" so that you can learn from that, but more importantly take measures to protect yourself from having it happen again.

When you can't figure out the exact why, you can't put a targeted protection plan in place, and therefore you feel exposed.

One of the singular most painful things about this process is never getting to the "why" in any kind of satisfying conclusion.

There are thousands of small contributors, and you can treat and improve upon each one, but you probably won't feel that the sum of those changes fully insulates you from experiencing a loss like this again.

The first phase of this journey for most is guilt -- searching our memories and inventorying all our shortcomings. The first reaction of some people on this board to a newbie is often "you weren't meeting her needs" which further reinforces this stage of guilt.

Relationships aren't that simple. If you weren't meeting her needs, chances are she wasn't meeting your needs either, and the reasons for that are many and varied. A relationship is an equilibrium between two personalities, and its state is a reflection of both contributions to it.

Point is, regardless of the affair one or both of you weren't happy. Usually its just a matter of timing in terms of who pulls the rip cord first.

That's why it's now important to separate the desire for the person, from the desire for resumption of control, stability, and positive validation. Your brain is telling you that getting W back will restore these things, but it won't.

So ask yourself, what do you want and why do you want it?
Originally Posted by Core
You're searching for answers. Consciously and subconsciously. Your body and brain don't want to go through such an ordeal again. What went wrong? Can I avoid this in the future? Was it something I did? Where was I in the wrong? Can I make peace with anything on my end? All questions that may be percolating.

LH has some of the best advice. Moving on is best. If you cant, maybe there is something you should dwell on for a short time, just dont get stuck on it. Facing what we may have contributed is the hardest part and maybe you need peace there. If you want to know what happened to her....well...why? If you knew what caused her change, then what? Why do you have to know the cause? Likely if your similar to me, it could be because you want your conscience clean. If you did contribute, face it head on and get through it. You've been through worse now so that piece would be easy if thats your case.

You'll find peace in time.



Thanks Core for the encouragement. I have done a lot of self examination and can see what I did and didn't do that contributed to the downfall of the marriage. It's difficult to move on because I do feel a lot of guilt. Of course, it's way to late to do anything about it now given that WW has decided to move in with her AP.
BH,

The fantasy of my WW is extreme.

Three months after meeting OM on a dating website, she created a "vision board" or what I call a "delusion board" that she hung on her bedroom wall. Anyone could see it and my kids went in her room all the time. I can only imagine what they thought.

There was a grainy photo of her and OM with a caption "we will be happy forever," a photo of just our kids with captions like "I'm not a bad mom," "my kids don't need a perfect mom" (when they learned she was seeing someone else while living with us) and "I am all that my kids need."

There were other captions plastered on the delusion board such as "I exhale fear and I breathe in confidence" - and the best of all, an outline of a house with the following caption: "New home, room for 7 (OM has three kids), great school, great neighborhoods."

She was told by a psychic that "she wouldn't be "single" for long" and recently told me that she and OM "were meant to be."

One of my relatives told me it's as if WW "is on a mission."

How crazy is that?
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by Drh2001


How long is a WW able to live this delusional fantasy without feeling anything?


Potentially forever. From what I have witnessed a lot of WSs, (both husbands and wives!) usually have a good bit of Narcissistic personality disorder going on. Unless they get serious therapy for that likely it will never go away, and they will continue to chase a delusional fantasy without feeling anything until they do get help.

So if you are trying to wait that out I think it is a fool's game. You are better off doing the work you need to do on yourself and moving forward healthy and happy. It can be done but you have to stop worrying about her at all, stop worrying about what she has or hasn't posted on FB or what she still has up, and just focus on yourself and the kids.

Drh, you've got this. Upward and onward!




Yes I think you're right. She has never apologized for anything that she put me and the kids through. There has been absolutely no remorse of any kind. No regrets. Nothing. Zilch.

I guess the delusional fantasy is better than her old life, but it is still a fantasy.

OM is divorced with three kids. He knew my WW was still living at home with her husband and kids but dated her anyway.

I will take your advice and work on myself.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Now that she's gone and I have time to think (and yes I do GAL and other things as well), I am trying to fathom out how a wife and mother who had good morals can suddenly go wayward with no time in-between the transition.


People love linear systems and immediate feedback -- I press the lever and I get a pellet. I can understand that.

Relationships are highly entangled, hugely complex organisms laden with long delay feedback loops, outside influences, historic baggage, etc. When relationships break down you want to put your finger on the exact "why" so that you can learn from that, but more importantly take measures to protect yourself from having it happen again.

When you can't figure out the exact why, you can't put a targeted protection plan in place, and therefore you feel exposed.

One of the singular most painful things about this process is never getting to the "why" in any kind of satisfying conclusion.

There are thousands of small contributors, and you can treat and improve upon each one, but you probably won't feel that the sum of those changes fully insulates you from experiencing a loss like this again.

The first phase of this journey for most is guilt -- searching our memories and inventorying all our shortcomings. The first reaction of some people on this board to a newbie is often "you weren't meeting her needs" which further reinforces this stage of guilt.

Relationships aren't that simple. If you weren't meeting her needs, chances are she wasn't meeting your needs either, and the reasons for that are many and varied. A relationship is an equilibrium between two personalities, and its state is a reflection of both contributions to it.

Point is, regardless of the affair one or both of you weren't happy. Usually its just a matter of timing in terms of who pulls the rip cord first.

That's why it's now important to separate the desire for the person, from the desire for resumption of control, stability, and positive validation. Your brain is telling you that getting W back will restore these things, but it won't.

So ask yourself, what do you want and why do you want it?




I agree with what you've said LH. We both weren't happy. I wasn't meeting her needs which wasn't deliberate though.

My WW stopped complaining to me about the things I wasn't doing (which I now know is the danger zone) and I thought we'd stay together - go along to get along I guess.

Neither one of us sought counseling.

As for what I want, I simply don't know.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Three months after meeting OM on a dating website, she created a "vision board" or what I call a "delusion board" that she hung on her bedroom wall. Anyone could see it and my kids went in her room all the time. I can only imagine what they thought.

There was a grainy photo of her and OM with a caption "we will be happy forever," a photo of just our kids with captions like "I'm not a bad mom," "my kids don't need a perfect mom" (when they learned she was seeing someone else while living with us) and "I am all that my kids need."

There were other captions plastered on the delusion board such as "I exhale fear and I breathe in confidence" - and the best of all, an outline of a house with the following caption: "New home, room for 7 (OM has three kids), great school, great neighborhoods."

Dude your EXW is a kook. Do yourself a favor and run as fast as you can in the opposite direction.
Agree with LH.

Your WW is not one I would encourage you to reconcile with. She comes across as incredibly impulsive and selfish.
DRH you win the quote of the day:

“Women are naturally attracted to men who display the most dominant male strength characteristics. Men who are healthy and successful in life display their competency by being self-reliant with or without being involved romantically with women. When it comes to raising kids, women are natural nurturers and typically spend the most time raising kids when they are young. They usually will forego their careers and goals in order to be stay at home moms. In order for a woman to feel safe and comfortable enough to submit to a man’s leadership, he must consistently demonstrate his ability to persist and provide a stable home environment. During the courtship and while in relationship, women test men to determine if they can handle her tests of his strength. Does he remain centered when she is unsure, changes her mind, gets emotional, is difficult to be around, moody or her interest seems to be hot and cold at times? Just like in nature, the most dominant males tend to have the best genes and produce the strongest offspring to ensure their genes get passed on to the next generation. Weak men get rejected while strong men get easy access to the box.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
Originally Posted by Drh2001



Yes I think you're right. She has never apologized for anything that she put me and the kids through. There has been absolutely no remorse of any kind. No regrets. Nothing. Zilch.


And she probably never will. And even if she did it is just words. Remember: ACTION NOT WORDS. When my W recommitted back to the marriage she never came back with an apology. I saw remorse, and I saw in her actions that she was trying to "make-up" for it. I got a card for her (either V-day, or my birthday, I forget) where she wrote in the card: "Thanks for not giving up on me." That was as close to a verbal apology as I got, but I don't care about verbal. It was her actions that showed she was sorry and that she wanted to recommit back to the marriage.

Originally Posted by Drh2001

I guess the delusional fantasy is better than her old life, but it is still a fantasy.


What you call delusional fantasy is her reality. Remember, perception IS reality. And her perception is that her delusional fantasy is better than her old life. She may have her fantasy bubble burst at some point (usually when the OM is done with her), but for now this statement does nothing for you. We have a saying around her: hope for the best, expect the worst. The first is just hope....the second is what is actionable. Assume she is gone for good and do the work on yourself to prepare for that eventuality.

Originally Posted by Drh2001

OM is divorced with three kids. He knew my WW was still living at home with her husband and kids but dated her anyway.


Doesn't matter. He could still be married. He could be a younger man with no attachments (like my W's EAP was). He could be Mel Gibson. Who he is doesn't matter. LBSs fixate unhealthily on OM. I did the same thing. Ran background checks, got all kinds of dirt on him (he was an ex-con). Guess what, none of that mattered to my W. The only thing that mattered, at the time, and it hurts to hear, was that he wasn't me! Likely your W is the same way. It could be anyone, as long as it isn't you!

Forget OM. Forget who he is. Who he is doesn't change what you need to do.

Originally Posted by Drh2001

I will take your advice and work on myself.


GREAT! What does that look like?
Hey DRH, I've been meaning to write this for a while but just haven't had the time.

Reading your sitch, especially this latest thread, I can identify with pretty much 99% of what you've said has happened, its all very, very familiar. I find a lot of comfort in knowing that someone is going through what I am, it makes it easier to accept that this can't be all my fault (as I am being told). I too have struggled with wanting to know why, but have come to accept that I will never know. Even more helpful is when I try and envision getting the why, and seeing that it doesn't really solve anything anyway. My family has still been broken up, my trust has still been broken and I still feel very betrayed. Knowing why won't make that all better.

Keep posting, this room has slowed down of late, would be a shame to lose everyone here.
An update...

The stress has finally got to me and I was diagnosed as a pre-diabetic. Most of my blood work was flagged. I can still turn this around and prevent a type I or type II diagnosis.

I need to work out more and take better care of myself. I have a bunch of DIY projects and a book I'm writing so I'm not sitting at home feeling sorry for myself.

WW is giving me a lot of issues. I was the last to know that she was moving to Pennsylvania although it is a few more miles for me to go get them. Under NJ law she is supposed to ask my permission to move them out of state and refuses to do it telling me I can get my lawyer to contact her.

My youngest daughter graduates middle school next month and I had told WW I was taking her and her sister out for dinner after the graduation. She knew this. Yesterday evening I get an email saying she wants to take her out for dinner as I am already celebrating with a graduation party that weekend. I told her my daughter doesn't want anyone at her party other than her sister and I due to her social anxiety and the stress induced by the pandemic. It may as well be a party of one.

When sandi mentioned the ugliness of a WW, boy am I seeing it. Like she is possessed by something. The way she is behaving is so opposite of the wife and mother she used to be.



Sorry Drh. I know she's a lot of trouble for you. It's a very stressful situation and it is exacerbated by not having ground rules in place. If you had a child care plan on place then it would be clear who's night it was and who could take her to dinner after the ceremony.

But Drh I'm going to give you the same advice I give to LBSs in similar situations. The importance should be placed on the reason and event not the day. In other words, taking your daughter to dinner doesn't have to be on the same night as the ceremony. If your STBXW is insisting on that night, and there is no clear cut claim (child care agreement), then just choose another night to do the exact same thing.

People put so much emphasis on the day, whether holiday, birthday, or other special occasion. The importance is on spending time with and celebrating with your D. My W is a child of D'd parents and even to this day her parents "fight" over her time on special occasions like this. It makes her life, and the celebration of those events miserable. She hates Christmas to this day because of it. Don't do that to your kids, even if it means always being the one to give ground. They'll thank you for it later.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Sorry Drh. I know she's a lot of trouble for you. It's a very stressful situation and it is exacerbated by not having ground rules in place. If you had a child care plan on place then it would be clear who's night it was and who could take her to dinner after the ceremony.

But Drh I'm going to give you the same advice I give to LBSs in similar situations. The importance should be placed on the reason and event not the day. In other words, taking your daughter to dinner doesn't have to be on the same night as the ceremony. If your STBXW is insisting on that night, and there is no clear cut claim (child care agreement), then just choose another night to do the exact same thing.

People put so much emphasis on the day, whether holiday, birthday, or other special occasion. The importance is on spending time with and celebrating with your D. My W is a child of D'd parents and even to this day her parents "fight" over her time on special occasions like this. It makes her life, and the celebration of those events miserable. She hates Christmas to this day because of it. Don't do that to your kids, even if it means always being the one to give ground. They'll thank you for it later.



Hey Steve, thanks for your reply. It's very difficult decision. If I constantly capitulate to WW where are the consequences for her wayward behavior? She just gets away with everything. On the other hand you have a point. It's a delicate balance to find. I even gave a bit of ground by telling WW by I could cut the dinner short and she could take my daughter out for dessert but she didn't want that.

I forgot to add, the divorce agreement states that the girls are with me Monday after school thru Friday after school and she has them Fri evening and drops them off Monday morning at school though since the girls are full time remote I have allowed my youngest daughter to get an extra morning with her.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Sorry Drh. I know she's a lot of trouble for you. It's a very stressful situation and it is exacerbated by not having ground rules in place. If you had a child care plan on place then it would be clear who's night it was and who could take her to dinner after the ceremony.

But Drh I'm going to give you the same advice I give to LBSs in similar situations. The importance should be placed on the reason and event not the day. In other words, taking your daughter to dinner doesn't have to be on the same night as the ceremony. If your STBXW is insisting on that night, and there is no clear cut claim (child care agreement), then just choose another night to do the exact same thing.

People put so much emphasis on the day, whether holiday, birthday, or other special occasion. The importance is on spending time with and celebrating with your D. My W is a child of D'd parents and even to this day her parents "fight" over her time on special occasions like this. It makes her life, and the celebration of those events miserable. She hates Christmas to this day because of it. Don't do that to your kids, even if it means always being the one to give ground. They'll thank you for it later.



Hey Steve, thanks for your reply. It's very difficult decision. If I constantly capitulate to WW where are the consequences for her wayward behavior? She just gets away with everything. On the other hand you have a point. It's a delicate balance to find. I even gave a bit of ground by telling WW by I could cut the dinner short and she could take my daughter out for dessert but she didn't want that.

I forgot to add, the divorce agreement states that the girls are with me Monday after school thru Friday after school and she has them Fri evening and drops them off Monday morning at school though since the girls are full time remote I have allowed my youngest daughter to get an extra morning with her.


If you have an agreement, and that's your night, then stand your ground.
Drh2001,

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Three months after meeting OM on a dating website, she created a "vision board" or what I call a "delusion board" that she hung on her bedroom wall. Anyone could see it and my kids went in her room all the time. I can only imagine what they thought.

She did this in the house you both lived in, with the teenaged kids around who could read it? That is crazy. My wife was lying and deceitful but at least she TRIED (albeit unsuccessfully) to hide it.

Your children are in their teenage years so I imagine they observe and have opinions on much more than my 6yo/2yo. Are they talking to you about their feelings? Are you discussing how this situation is impacting them and how they feel about it? Don't think you should be railing on their mom to them, but also think it's important to be a safe space to allow them to open up and share their feelings, and even at their age get their opinions on some of the decisions.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
She was told by a psychic that "she wouldn't be "single" for long" and recently told me that she and OM "were meant to be."

My W went to a physic multiple times as well to "figure out what's going on with her life"....while I was meeting with counsels and our priest. Not sure if she even knows I know, but her mom encouraged it. Nutty.


Originally Posted by LH19
Dude your EXW is a kook. Do yourself a favor and run as fast as you can in the opposite direction.

Originally Posted by Thornton
Agree with LH.

Your WW is not one I would encourage you to reconcile with. She comes across as incredibly impulsive and selfish.

^Agreed!!!

Originally Posted by Drh2001
The stress has finally got to me and I was diagnosed as a pre-diabetic. Most of my blood work was flagged. I can still turn this around and prevent a type I or type II diagnosis.

I need to work out more and take better care of myself. I have a bunch of DIY projects and a book I'm writing so I'm not sitting at home feeling sorry for myself.

Take care of yourself first and foremost so you can take care of your children!

Originally Posted by Drh2001
WW is giving me a lot of issues. I was the last to know that she was moving to Pennsylvania although it is a few more miles for me to go get them. Under NJ law she is supposed to ask my permission to move them out of state and refuses to do it telling me I can get my lawyer to contact her.

Sounds like you're near the PA/NJ border, but can your wife move out of state without impacting the custody agreement? Both your kids are still in school, correct? I don't know about NJ, but we have an agreement where the kids remain in the school district unless both of us agree otherwise. If one parent moves out of the district the kids remain going to that district. I would think most courts and states would have issue with one parent moving out of state, and give the benefit of the doubt to the parent staying in the school district (for the kids' benefit). You may want to address that with your L.
Update...

WW refused to discuss getting my consent to move the kids to PA. A friend of mine suggested that the reason for this is that it brings her back into my life and because she is in "complete rebellion" as sandi mentioned once, she does not want to ask for "my permission"

My attorney told me that a parent, regardless of primary residency, needs the consent of the other parent AND the court.

I told WW this and she actually told me she'd get her own attorney. I told her why, since any attorney will tell you the same thing I did. Well later that evening, she asked for my consent, probably because her attorney told her to.
I love it! WW think they can just do whatever they want. I take a lot of pleasure in seeing a WS get hit in the face with reality.

What was your answer?
Originally Posted by BL42
Drh2001,

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Three months after meeting OM on a dating website, she created a "vision board" or what I call a "delusion board" that she hung on her bedroom wall. Anyone could see it and my kids went in her room all the time. I can only imagine what they thought.

She did this in the house you both lived in, with the teenaged kids around who could read it? That is crazy. My wife was lying and deceitful but at least she TRIED (albeit unsuccessfully) to hide it.

Your children are in their teenage years so I imagine they observe and have opinions on much more than my 6yo/2yo. Are they talking to you about their feelings? Are you discussing how this situation is impacting them and how they feel about it? Don't think you should be railing on their mom to them, but also think it's important to be a safe space to allow them to open up and share their feelings, and even at their age get their opinions on some of the decisions.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
She was told by a psychic that "she wouldn't be "single" for long" and recently told me that she and OM "were meant to be."

My W went to a physic multiple times as well to "figure out what's going on with her life"....while I was meeting with counsels and our priest. Not sure if she even knows I know, but her mom encouraged it. Nutty.


Originally Posted by LH19
Dude your EXW is a kook. Do yourself a favor and run as fast as you can in the opposite direction.

Originally Posted by Thornton
Agree with LH.

Your WW is not one I would encourage you to reconcile with. She comes across as incredibly impulsive and selfish.

^Agreed!!!

Originally Posted by Drh2001
The stress has finally got to me and I was diagnosed as a pre-diabetic. Most of my blood work was flagged. I can still turn this around and prevent a type I or type II diagnosis.

I need to work out more and take better care of myself. I have a bunch of DIY projects and a book I'm writing so I'm not sitting at home feeling sorry for myself.

Take care of yourself first and foremost so you can take care of your children!

Originally Posted by Drh2001
WW is giving me a lot of issues. I was the last to know that she was moving to Pennsylvania although it is a few more miles for me to go get them. Under NJ law she is supposed to ask my permission to move them out of state and refuses to do it telling me I can get my lawyer to contact her.

Sounds like you're near the PA/NJ border, but can your wife move out of state without impacting the custody agreement? Both your kids are still in school, correct? I don't know about NJ, but we have an agreement where the kids remain in the school district unless both of us agree otherwise. If one parent moves out of the district the kids remain going to that district. I would think most courts and states would have issue with one parent moving out of state, and give the benefit of the doubt to the parent staying in the school district (for the kids' benefit). You may want to address that with your L.




Hi BL42, thanks for your comments. I'm about half an hour from the PA border. She needs my consent and that of the court. I gave her my consent after she finally contacted an attorney, who told her what I said. WW and OM bought the house last month. I was the last to know they were moving to PA. Both my kids are in school (though full time virtual remote) and they live with me during the school week and she gets them for long weekends.

She was lamenting the other day how my eldest daughter only "visits" her and doesn't seem to want to stay there for any length of time.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I love it! WW think they can just do whatever they want. I take a lot of pleasure in seeing a WS get hit in the face with reality.

What was your answer?


I gave consent. WW and OM already bought the house (though I don't know if she is on the title). There's not much I can do except delay the inevitable at great expense. Plus we have an uncontested divorce working its way through the system so I don't want to do anything to aggravate that.

My friend said she had to swallow a lot of pride to finally ask me as before she said it's not open for discussion and to get my lawyer to contact her lawyer.
Ok. The evil side of me would have made her sweat. "Let me think about it and discuss with my lawyer." I think the alternative would have been the children live with you?
That has crossed my mind.

She said if I chose to make it difficult it would affect the kids because they wouldn't be allowed to go with her if I filed a motion with my attorney. This would affect my youngest as she is close to her mother. And it could affect the divorce process. I'm between a rock and a hard place really.

I count myself fortunate to have 50/50 - it's even a bit more than that given I have them during the school week.

Once they go back to school full time, in person, this September, and make friends, join clubs, get jobs etc, they are naturally going to become more independent - which means less parent time and in her case, living in Penn State, means she'll see them less and less. What can she offer them other than her company? Everything they have is where I live, their friends, school, job, their real home.

Having said that I overheard my youngest telling her on the phone "but it's so far away" referring to the new house that OM bought and WW is trying to convince her it's just across the bridge.
Drh2001,

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Yes She has never apologized for anything that she put me and the kids through. There has been absolutely no remorse of any kind. No regrets. Nothing. Zilch.

Yep. Same here. Best I got so far was a stoic unemotional "I shouldn't have done that" in regards to the affair. What remorse...

Originally Posted by Drh2001
OM is divorced with three kids. He knew my WW was still living at home with her husband and kids but dated her anyway.

Classy. Great foundation for a relationship - I'm sure they're destined to be soulmates.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I gave consent. WW and OM already bought the house (though I don't know if she is on the title). There's not much I can do except delay the inevitable at great expense. Plus we have an uncontested divorce working its way through the system so I don't want to do anything to aggravate that.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Ok. The evil side of me would have made her sweat. "Let me think about it and discuss with my lawyer." I think the alternative would have been the children live with you?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
That has crossed my mind.

She said if I chose to make it difficult it would affect the kids because they wouldn't be allowed to go with her if I filed a motion with my attorney. This would affect my youngest as she is close to her mother. And it could affect the divorce process. I'm between a rock and a hard place really.

I count myself fortunate to have 50/50 - it's even a bit more than that given I have them during the school week.

Once they go back to school full time, in person, this September, and make friends, join clubs, get jobs etc, they are naturally going to become more independent - which means less parent time and in her case, living in Penn State, means she'll see them less and less. What can she offer them other than her company? Everything they have is where I live, their friends, school, job, their real home.

Having said that I overheard my youngest telling her on the phone "but it's so far away" referring to the new house that OM bought and WW is trying to convince her it's just across the bridge.

I'd have been tempted to let her sweat it out as well. Though, though would be from a revenge perspective, which probably isn't the best reason.

However, from the kids perspective...is it really in their best interest to have to live 30 minutes away and out of state every weekend? I get their school is virtual now, but it likely won't be next year. I'm not saying you should fight for 100% custody - they should be able to see their mom - but would it make sense to not just give in to 50/50 and fight for a majority of time? I'm no a lawyer, but if I were you I'd certainly discuss that possibly with your lawyer. I would think her moving out of state (let alone out of school district) would greatly bias the courts in your favor in terms of custody. Your kids are older and have established schools, friends, activities...etc. which will be interfered with by living in another state part-time. If she's willing to move away and out-of-state (let alone the district) for her own selfish reasons without regard to her kids interests, that should be a strong factor in the custody decision, right?

Besides the kids' best interest this arrangement would likely factor into child support, no? In my state 50/50 means the more monied spouse pays child support regardless, whereas anything more I wouldn't be paying. It could be a big financial consideration for you.

Finally, have you thought out the long-term impacts of your schedule (you having them during the weeks and your STBX having them every weekend)? Not having the kids any weekend will make it difficult to do fun outings and vacations, wouldn't it? Seems like all the school work and logistics are on you, but none of the free time.
I got divorced this week over Zoom while I was staying with my family on the West Coast. I didn't get anything in the mail - my lawyer called me on Sunday and sent me the zoom links to the court the next day. Had to borrow a suit. Unfortunately, my camera didn't work on my laptop but they were ok with audio only.

WW was there too, all teary eyed. This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.

It was an uncontested divorce. I bought her share of the house out and have the kids during the school week.

I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

So, it's over - but my 180s are not.
Originally Posted by BL42
Drh2001,

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Yes She has never apologized for anything that she put me and the kids through. There has been absolutely no remorse of any kind. No regrets. Nothing. Zilch.
Yep. Same here. Best I got so far was a stoic unemotional "I shouldn't have done that" in regards to the affair. What remorse...

Originally Posted by Drh2001
OM is divorced with three kids. He knew my WW was still living at home with her husband and kids but dated her anyway.
Classy. Great foundation for a relationship - I'm sure they're destined to be soulmates.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I gave consent. WW and OM already bought the house (though I don't know if she is on the title). There's not much I can do except delay the inevitable at great expense. Plus we have an uncontested divorce working its way through the system so I don't want to do anything to aggravate that.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Ok. The evil side of me would have made her sweat. "Let me think about it and discuss with my lawyer." I think the alternative would have been the children live with you?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
That has crossed my mind.

She said if I chose to make it difficult it would affect the kids because they wouldn't be allowed to go with her if I filed a motion with my attorney. This would affect my youngest as she is close to her mother. And it could affect the divorce process. I'm between a rock and a hard place really.

I count myself fortunate to have 50/50 - it's even a bit more than that given I have them during the school week.

Once they go back to school full time, in person, this September, and make friends, join clubs, get jobs etc, they are naturally going to become more independent - which means less parent time and in her case, living in Penn State, means she'll see them less and less. What can she offer them other than her company? Everything they have is where I live, their friends, school, job, their real home.

Having said that I overheard my youngest telling her on the phone "but it's so far away" referring to the new house that OM bought and WW is trying to convince her it's just across the bridge.
I'd have been tempted to let her sweat it out as well. Though, though would be from a revenge perspective, which probably isn't the best reason.

However, from the kids perspective...is it really in their best interest to have to live 30 minutes away and out of state every weekend? I get their school is virtual now, but it likely won't be next year. I'm not saying you should fight for 100% custody - they should be able to see their mom - but would it make sense to not just give in to 50/50 and fight for a majority of time? I'm no a lawyer, but if I were you I'd certainly discuss that possibly with your lawyer. I would think her moving out of state (let alone out of school district) would greatly bias the courts in your favor in terms of custody. Your kids are older and have established schools, friends, activities...etc. which will be interfered with by living in another state part-time. If she's willing to move away and out-of-state (let alone the district) for her own selfish reasons without regard to her kids interests, that should be a strong factor in the custody decision, right?

Besides the kids' best interest this arrangement would likely factor into child support, no? In my state 50/50 means the more monied spouse pays child support regardless, whereas anything more I wouldn't be paying. It could be a big financial consideration for you.

Finally, have you thought out the long-term impacts of your schedule (you having them during the weeks and your STBX having them every weekend)? Not having the kids any weekend will make it difficult to do fun outings and vacations, wouldn't it? Seems like all the school work and logistics are on you, but none of the free time.


BL42,


Thanks for the advice.

School is in person next month so I'll have them during the school week which is slighlly more than 50%.

Because we did mediation there is no formal child support order as we agreed to share the child expenses and it's been working out well that way.

I get what you're saying about free time and you're absolutely right. drh needs free time too. I shall have to think about this.
Drh2001,

How are you feeling about the Divorce? For me, even though it was a year and a half since BD and a year since separation and I had been feeling stronger it was emotional. Glad the process was over, but still a sad day. 20 years is a long time. Unfortunate our Exs wouldn't work on the marriages instead of running off to find "happiness" and a quick fix.

Glad you got the house and have the kids most of the time. I'm still concerned for you (or maybe more your kids) about the arrangement between school weeks / weekends with your ExW moving across state lines out of state / a decent distance away (30-40mins?). What happens when they have a game or friend's birthday on the weekend? Will their mother drive them back into town for those types of events? What about your down time / fun time with the kids? Make sure to keep an eye on those things. The situation does seems to be to "your advantage" over your Exs at least. Unfortunately the kids are negatively impacted by their mother's decisions. It's good you're bringing stability to the their lives. Keep being the rock and the best dad you can be.

You mentioned on IronWill's thread your Ex only has a high school diploma yet works full-time and makes "decent" money. Do you make a good bit more? If so, it seems like no child support is a BIG win for you financially. I can related to my Ex blowing through her money! She's racked up tens of thousands of dollars in surgery, new A/C, new windows, credit card, new minivan, and now a new house. I'm funding some of it through child support payments but wonder where's she's getting the rest. Maybe her mom / step dad are funding her life now like they always have done for her brother or maybe she's digging a hole that will bite her in the future. It's amazing I'm able to save as much as before even with essentially paying the equivalent of her mortgage and car payments. It's not always "cheaper to keep her" lol

Anyway, hope you're getting through the D finalization alright. Hang in there...your life is going to be great!
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I got divorced this week over Zoom while I was staying with my family on the West Coast. I didn't get anything in the mail - my lawyer called me on Sunday and sent me the zoom links to the court the next day. Had to borrow a suit. Unfortunately, my camera didn't work on my laptop but they were ok with audio only.

WW was there too, all teary eyed. This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.

It was an uncontested divorce. I bought her share of the house out and have the kids during the school week.

I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

So, it's over - but my 180s are not.

drh, hang in there. Praying for you brother! Onward and upward.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.

It was an uncontested divorce. I bought her share of the house out and have the kids during the school week.

I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

So, it's over - but my 180s are not.

Drh, congrats, I know it's not what you really wanted but it's a huge weight off your shoulders and it's onward and upward from here! Your situation mirrors mine, my XW left just before our 20th anniversary. The divorce was uncontested. Our house had been paid for but I had to mortgage it to buy her out. We shared custody 50-50 (every other week in our case) and no child support or alimony. I'm now 10 years down the road and it all worked out quite well, so I think you've paved the way for peaceful co-parenting and coexistence. I did not feel sorrow after the divorce was final, just relief. I thought I might fall back into depression but instead it was turning the page to a new chapter in my life, one that has been quite different than before but filled with fun and excitement. I think you have a lot to look forward to smile
Originally Posted by BL42
Drh2001,

How are you feeling about the Divorce? For me, even though it was a year and a half since BD and a year since separation and I had been feeling stronger it was emotional. Glad the process was over, but still a sad day. 20 years is a long time. Unfortunate our Exs wouldn't work on the marriages instead of running off to find "happiness" and a quick fix.

Glad you got the house and have the kids most of the time. I'm still concerned for you (or maybe more your kids) about the arrangement between school weeks / weekends with your ExW moving across state lines out of state / a decent distance away (30-40mins?). What happens when they have a game or friend's birthday on the weekend? Will their mother drive them back into town for those types of events? What about your down time / fun time with the kids? Make sure to keep an eye on those things. The situation does seems to be to "your advantage" over your Exs at least. Unfortunately the kids are negatively impacted by their mother's decisions. It's good you're bringing stability to the their lives. Keep being the rock and the best dad you can be.

You mentioned on IronWill's thread your Ex only has a high school diploma yet works full-time and makes "decent" money. Do you make a good bit more? If so, it seems like no child support is a BIG win for you financially. I can related to my Ex blowing through her money! She's racked up tens of thousands of dollars in surgery, new A/C, new windows, credit card, new minivan, and now a new house. I'm funding some of it through child support payments but wonder where's she's getting the rest. Maybe her mom / step dad are funding her life now like they always have done for her brother or maybe she's digging a hole that will bite her in the future. It's amazing I'm able to save as much as before even with essentially paying the equivalent of her mortgage and car payments. It's not always "cheaper to keep her" lol

Anyway, hope you're getting through the D finalization alright. Hang in there...your life is going to be great!



BL42,

I'm relieved that's it's over. I got my D papers last week. It would have been our 20th that month but it's done.

I think she is starting to realize what she's lost. Now that my kids are back in school and not remote, she doesn't get my youngest daughter midweek. She just gets long weekends with them and my eldest daughter barely goes round there anyway.

If my eldest child has other aarrangements she simply doesn't go. She has a bf too, who lives fairly local, so that keeps her busy.

Fortunately WW does accommodate the odd weekend for me so I can take the girls out.

Regarding finances, I make about 40% more but I have the bulk of the child care expenses since they live with me during the school week and I also put by savings for them and their college funds.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I got divorced this week over Zoom while I was staying with my family on the West Coast. I didn't get anything in the mail - my lawyer called me on Sunday and sent me the zoom links to the court the next day. Had to borrow a suit. Unfortunately, my camera didn't work on my laptop but they were ok with audio only.

WW was there too, all teary eyed. This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.

It was an uncontested divorce. I bought her share of the house out and have the kids during the school week.

I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

So, it's over - but my 180s are not.

drh, hang in there. Praying for you brother! Onward and upward.



Thank you SteveLW!!!


something interesting to relate. My eldest daughter had her SW16 celebration and unfortunately I had to see the former friend of the family who encouraged my WW to cheat on me.

She cheated on her husband and slept around and they recently got divorced, however they are on good terms and came to the celebration together.

WW told me that they're back together - after getting divorced. They also have a son.

When I told my relative that they said "look's like she's the only member of the 'leave your husband behind club. Must have been a slap in the face for her.'

This woman was giving my WW hints and tips about how to hide her cheating.


Also, last week was the kid's first day back at school. WW drove from PA to my house, parked in the driveway, got out and took pictures of them in their new back to school outfits. They stood outside the front door. This is something she always did each first day back at school. She never said a word to me, then got back in her car and drove off. Someone told me she posted the pics on FB which would have been weird because it would show the front door of a house she no longer lives in.

Odd.
Originally Posted by Dh2001
Also, last week was the kid's first day back at school. WW drove from PA to my house, parked in the driveway, got out and took pictures of them in their new back to school outfits. They stood outside the front door. This is something she always did each first day back at school. She never said a word to me, then got back in her car and drove off. Someone told me she posted the pics on FB which would have been weird because it would show the front door of a house she no longer lives in.
Hi Drh2001,

Whoever is filling you in on what your WW is posting on Facebook, if they've volunteered info more than once, I'd thank them but ask them to kindly not do so again. It doesn't help with detachment.

Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but I'm not sure why you believe it's weird your XW is taking photos of the kids on their first date of school. Is it that she doesn't feel guilt, shame, etc. and your home's just another backdrop? I was a WAS to my XW (for good reasons), and both of us have taken holiday photos of the kids' in front of the others' place at some point. Never thought twice about it.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
WW was there too, all teary eyed. This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.
23 years here. IDK what's going on in the world with all the long-term marriages ending over OM/OW.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

I am of the same mind. And those mutual friends of ours that welcomed OW into their lives, I've certainly left behind. It helped my grief process to think out taking him back at some point - even if he changed - both families were affected, he hurt our kids, grandkids, so many people. That was another time, a different life and I don't want any of it back.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
So, it's over - but my 180s are not.

Excellent!!
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by Drh2001
This month would have been our 20th wedding anniversary.

It was an uncontested divorce. I bought her share of the house out and have the kids during the school week.

I don't think I could ever take her back to be honest if somewhere down the road she wanted to come back. Too much damage has been done and some of my relationships with her friends and family have been destroyed because of her actions.

So, it's over - but my 180s are not.

Drh, congrats, I know it's not what you really wanted but it's a huge weight off your shoulders and it's onward and upward from here! Your situation mirrors mine, my XW left just before our 20th anniversary. The divorce was uncontested. Our house had been paid for but I had to mortgage it to buy her out. We shared custody 50-50 (every other week in our case) and no child support or alimony. I'm now 10 years down the road and it all worked out quite well, so I think you've paved the way for peaceful co-parenting and coexistence. I did not feel sorrow after the divorce was final, just relief. I thought I might fall back into depression but instead it was turning the page to a new chapter in my life, one that has been quite different than before but filled with fun and excitement. I think you have a lot to look forward to smile


Another Stander,

Yesterday was two years since BD. Strangely enough I didn't feel depression after I got divorced - just relief that two years of hell was over.

I did want to save the marriage and did the 180s but it was too late - one can hope but I knew deep down it was over.

Her behavior was so awful and the disrespect so bad that I vowed to myself that I would never take her back even if she felt remorse for her actions sometime in the future and wanted to make amends.

She destroyed relationships with my sister in law and a friend of the family, both of whom I got on with for years and never had a bad word to say about them until the day they betrayed me and helped conspire with her to cover up her adultery.

I told her that where there used to be a door she could come back through and start over there is just a wall where I took the door out and bricked up the space it left behind.

Too much damage has been done. She has not only burned her bridges with me but removed the supporting pillars.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Dh2001
Also, last week was the kid's first day back at school. WW drove from PA to my house, parked in the driveway, got out and took pictures of them in their new back to school outfits. They stood outside the front door. This is something she always did each first day back at school. She never said a word to me, then got back in her car and drove off. Someone told me she posted the pics on FB which would have been weird because it would show the front door of a house she no longer lives in.
Hi Drh2001,

Whoever is filling you in on what your WW is posting on Facebook, if they've volunteered info more than once, I'd thank them but ask them to kindly not do so again. It doesn't help with detachment.

Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but I'm not sure why you believe it's weird your XW is taking photos of the kids on their first date of school. Is it that she doesn't feel guilt, shame, etc. and your home's just another backdrop? I was a WAS to my XW (for good reasons), and both of us have taken holiday photos of the kids' in front of the others' place at some point. Never thought twice about it.


CWarrior,

It's not weird that she took pictures of the kids on their first day back at school. This was a tradition she had kept for years.

It's weird that she didn't announce she was coming (she lives half an hour away in another state), never told me in advance she was coming, parked in the driveway, didn't say a word to me, took the photos and then drove off. I don't know what I was expecting.

It's just a strange experience.
DRH - I just popped in and read some but not all of your story. It sickens me how much these stories all seem to rhyme. Anyhow, I just wanted to wish you all the best. Nothing more.

Good Luck!
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Dh2001
Also, last week was the kid's first day back at school. WW drove from PA to my house, parked in the driveway, got out and took pictures of them in their new back to school outfits. They stood outside the front door. This is something she always did each first day back at school. She never said a word to me, then got back in her car and drove off. Someone told me she posted the pics on FB which would have been weird because it would show the front door of a house she no longer lives in.
Hi Drh2001,

Whoever is filling you in on what your WW is posting on Facebook, if they've volunteered info more than once, I'd thank them but ask them to kindly not do so again. It doesn't help with detachment.

Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but I'm not sure why you believe it's weird your XW is taking photos of the kids on their first date of school. Is it that she doesn't feel guilt, shame, etc. and your home's just another backdrop? I was a WAS to my XW (for good reasons), and both of us have taken holiday photos of the kids' in front of the others' place at some point. Never thought twice about it.


CWarrior,

It's not weird that she took pictures of the kids on their first day back at school. This was a tradition she had kept for years.

It's weird that she didn't announce she was coming (she lives half an hour away in another state), never told me in advance she was coming, parked in the driveway, didn't say a word to me, took the photos and then drove off. I don't know what I was expecting.

It's just a strange experience.

I gave up trying to figure out the logic of the WAS mind year ago. They are irrational, strange beasts. Likely she doesn't even know why she ended up there. It was some impulse that said "I need to go take pictures of the kids!" I agree, it is strange, but until your kids are on their own I think the one expectation you can have is that you will never understand your EX's behavior.
Brief update...

It's been mostly quiet though WW is telling me "I left YOU not the kids and I have 50/50 custody."

I told her I'm part of the family, that you can't take me out the equation and say this when a family includes me, the marital home, the kids, the pets, the furnishings and the lifestyle.

I told her she left the marital home, which by extension includes the things that make up a home, so she did abandon the family.

She took up residency with another man and his family and so his home, kids, pets, furnishings and lifestyle became her home, kids, pets, furnishing and lifestyle.

She said I'm laughable and forgives me for my "tunnel vision."


Well, when you look at a telescope the wrong way you will only see a small fraction of what you would ordinarily see.

We all know that logical arguments don't work with a wayward, however I thought it was worth pointing out to her once that she left the family not just me.

As it is, i have my oldest child six days a week. She does duty visits to her mother on Friday. I have my youngest almost 60% of the week.

I also found out she blocked some mutual friends on FB who've been friends of ours for over ten years. They were surprised because they never treated her any differently.

As it is, I'm moving on with my life and start university next month.
Drh, sorry man. Yeah, the WAS usually has their own "version" of things. I don't blame you at all for saying what you said. If nothing else it shows her that you will not be snowed by her characterization of things. I will say, be careful here. Because WWs in particular will go scorched earth to "justify" their actions. False accusations are very very common in this kinds of things. In order to save face she may "invent" abuses to prove that she was "right" in what she did. The easiest one is always emotional abuse. That is why I am very cautious anytime that accusation is thrown about. The way emotional abuse is characterized nowadays anytime a couple has a disagreement one could claim emotional abuse. It waters down true emotional abuse, but do not be surprised if she starts leveling charges like that to justify her abandonment. She knows deep down that what you said to her is the truth.

Also, document everything you just claimed here. Get a calendar specifically to record days you have the kids, and the days they are with her. Write down on the day when drop off and pickups occur. Be meticulous.

As far as the blocking of mutual friends. Not surprising at all. When my wife went wayward, I was absolutely SHOCKED at how readily she was willing to discard people in her life. She even on New Years Eve didn't attend a get together at our best friends' house. She claimed she wasn't "feeling" well. However, I believe she was engaging with the loser OM while we were gone. He had nothing else going on I am almost sure and she wanted to stay home and communicate with him. But her willingness just to set aside people that she felt wouldn't be supportive of what she was doing was astounding.

Glad to see you moving forwardw with your life. Keep on moving forward!
Originally Posted by Drh2001
It's been mostly quiet though WW is telling me "I left YOU not the kids and I have 50/50 custody."
She needs to think she's still a good mother, even after moving out of state from her two teenaged daughters. And needs to think you're to blame.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I'm part of the family, that you can't take me out the equation and say this when a family includes me, the marital home, the kids, the pets, the furnishings and the lifestyle.

I told her she left the marital home, which by extension includes the things that make up a home, so she did abandon the family.
Very true

Originally Posted by Drh2001
As it is, i have my oldest child six days a week. She does duty visits to her mother on Friday. I have my youngest almost 60% of the week.
Good you're there for your daughters. How are they doing with all this?

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I also found out she blocked some mutual friends on FB who've been friends of ours for over ten years. They were surprised because they never treated her any differently.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
As far as the blocking of mutual friends. Not surprising at all. When my wife went wayward, I was absolutely SHOCKED at how readily she was willing to discard people in her life.
So true on the discarding of people in their lives, especially those who wouldn't approve of the behaviors, and embracing those who do approve/encourage it.

Drh2001 - With the divorce finalized, have you explored dating at all?
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Drh2001
It's been mostly quiet though WW is telling me "I left YOU not the kids and I have 50/50 custody."
She needs to think she's still a good mother, even after moving out of state from her two teenaged daughters. And needs to think you're to blame.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I'm part of the family, that you can't take me out the equation and say this when a family includes me, the marital home, the kids, the pets, the furnishings and the lifestyle.

I told her she left the marital home, which by extension includes the things that make up a home, so she did abandon the family.
Very true

Originally Posted by Drh2001
As it is, i have my oldest child six days a week. She does duty visits to her mother on Friday. I have my youngest almost 60% of the week.
Good you're there for your daughters. How are they doing with all this?

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I also found out she blocked some mutual friends on FB who've been friends of ours for over ten years. They were surprised because they never treated her any differently.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
As far as the blocking of mutual friends. Not surprising at all. When my wife went wayward, I was absolutely SHOCKED at how readily she was willing to discard people in her life.
So true on the discarding of people in their lives, especially those who wouldn't approve of the behaviors, and embracing those who do approve/encourage it.

Drh2001 - With the divorce finalized, have you explored dating at all?



Hi BL42,

I asked my eldest child and she said she's used to the situation now. She does get sad at times.

As for dating I have no clue what I'm looking for or where to start. I don't think I want to date someone with kids and I don't want anymore of my own. I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.

I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?

I've been very busy with house projects and still have a lot to do so the time goes quickly.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?
I have not found it to be. I date about as many women with kids as without kids. If they’re 40s and have no kids, there’s usually a reason for that they’ve accepted. E.g., unable, ethically prefer not to add to world population, prioritizing other activities, etc.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.
That baggage could be problematic, though. Nobody likes to be treated a certain way because of what someone else did to you. Try to process that trauma.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Drh2001
It's been mostly quiet though WW is telling me "I left YOU not the kids and I have 50/50 custody."
She needs to think she's still a good mother, even after moving out of state from her two teenaged daughters. And needs to think you're to blame.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I'm part of the family, that you can't take me out the equation and say this when a family includes me, the marital home, the kids, the pets, the furnishings and the lifestyle.

I told her she left the marital home, which by extension includes the things that make up a home, so she did abandon the family.
Very true

Originally Posted by Drh2001
As it is, i have my oldest child six days a week. She does duty visits to her mother on Friday. I have my youngest almost 60% of the week.
Good you're there for your daughters. How are they doing with all this?

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I also found out she blocked some mutual friends on FB who've been friends of ours for over ten years. They were surprised because they never treated her any differently.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
As far as the blocking of mutual friends. Not surprising at all. When my wife went wayward, I was absolutely SHOCKED at how readily she was willing to discard people in her life.
So true on the discarding of people in their lives, especially those who wouldn't approve of the behaviors, and embracing those who do approve/encourage it.

Drh2001 - With the divorce finalized, have you explored dating at all?



Hi BL42,

I asked my eldest child and she said she's used to the situation now. She does get sad at times.

As for dating I have no clue what I'm looking for or where to start. I don't think I want to date someone with kids and I don't want anymore of my own. I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.

I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?

I've been very busy with house projects and still have a lot to do so the time goes quickly.

I'm not sure "childless" is a good criteria. Date single women. If the right one has kids of her own, so be it. Not sure how'd you feel if you meet someone you like and she says "if only you didn't have kids".
Drh2001,
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I've heard it's difficult to find single childless women if you're a single father, is this really true?
I have not found it to be. I date about as many women with kids as without kids. If they’re 40s and have no kids, there’s usually a reason for that they’ve accepted. E.g., unable, ethically prefer not to add to world population, prioritizing other activities, etc.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
I'm not sure "childless" is a good criteria. Date single women. If the right one has kids of her own, so be it. Not sure how'd you feel if you meet someone you like and she says "if only you didn't have kids".
I'm sure it's a factor. Before marriage I definitely preferred women who had not been previously married and did not have kids, so I'm sure there are woman out there today who aren't looking to date a single father (and probably more so the childless women with that preference than those who already have kids), but then there are also those who are open to it.

In terms of your preference, it's like any factor you're filtering on...it simply reduces the options. Just as if you only wanted a certain hair color, or height range, or religion...whatever. Anytime you place a constraint on the search you get fewer results. And in the dating pool at our age there are a higher percentage of women with kids than when we were ten years younger. But it doesn't mean you can't find someone who fits your needs.

I'm taking the SteveLW approach. Single is a requirement, but not ruling out women with kids - for me it seems tough to take that stance when I myself have them - and they may actually be more understanding and fit in with my life and situation because of it.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I don't think I want to get married ever again, not after what WW did to me.
That baggage could be problematic, though. Nobody likes to be treated a certain way because of what someone else did to you. Try to process that trauma.
I agree with CWarrior. It's understandable some folks here might be tentative about remarrying, but assume the majority of folks in the dating pool are looking to get married at some point so by ruling it out completely it takes away options (or sets someone up to be hurt).
DRH: Your story just continues to be so similar in a lot of ways. It’s funny how these things seem to rhyme. I bet the folks that have been here a long time have gotten pretty good at predicting the future of these things.

In the dating front, I jumped in on that - maybe a bit early, but c’est la vie. I’m 43 and I’ve only dated women that don’t have kids of their own between the ages of 43 and 29. It’s been fun. It’s a learning experience. I’Ve only tried Tinder and Bumble and I like Bumble better. When I signed up I was able to pay $200 one time to unlock all the premium features, and that’s been the way to go. I locked my account down so that no one can see my profile unless it select them, which gives me some control over who I meet. I would also be able to let my profile be out there and then just select from the women that select me.

Some base rules in your picture, if you try it. No pictures of you with fish or dead animals, no pictures of you with your car or in your car, no gym selfies, and no selfies in the bathroom. Good luck. Try it out and see if dating is for you, if not you can always shut it down.
A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.

As for marrying again, might be a little early to make that call but who knows. Maybe consider being open minded on that front? Just a thought - because in reading your posts it doesn’t feel like you have truly closed that door. How about, your just not ready to get married now, you focus on living in the present, and the future will take care of itself.

And if you have a good job, are a good dad, and are fit, there will be plenty of incredible women out there. Oddly there are more women out there than quality men, so again, feel free to be selective. There is nothing wrong with that.
Originally Posted by ScottB
I’Ve only tried Tinder and Bumble and I like Bumble better.
You might try Hinge. In my (admittedly limited) experience Tinder is cluttered with a lot of spam and trashy profiles, whereas Hinge has a lot more real/viable/normal-looking women.

Originally Posted by ScottB
A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.
I agree w/this. If it's a strong preference or requirement for you than do it, but just know it's going to limit the pool to some extent (especially at our age). I like kids and am open to the possibility of meeting a woman with them.
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by ScottB
A couple more things; if you don’t want to date someone who has kids, then don’t. That’s simple. We each get to make those kinds of choices. Because you have kids isn’t relevant, you do you and go for what you want.
I agree w/this. If it's a strong preference or requirement for you than do it, but just know it's going to limit the pool to some extent (especially at our age). I like kids and am open to the possibility of meeting a woman with them.

I should point out that I agree as well. I think it is hypocritical a bit "You can't have kids but you better accept mine." But yes, if it is a strong preference or requirement then so be it. My above answer was related to what BL42 points out, that you will potentially be eliminating a fairly large pool of women, and potentially some really good matches.
Thanks for the advice and apologies for taking so long to reply.

Def a lot to think about. I can't even imagine long term anything so might just stick to short term dating.

I hardly have anytime what with being in grad school, working full time and being a full time dad to two daughters.


So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw exWW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin."

I did text exWW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.

She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text to me was "Good bye"

I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.


Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?



Now this cousin of exWW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.

This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that exWW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

On rare occasions, if I'm in the neighborhood, I'll stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her. Why should the kids be deprived of family?

exWW has not changed her attitude one bit. She is still wayward in every sense. She resents me because I refuse to speak with her and says "you can't make me disappear". She doe not want to accept that things have changed due to her actions. She wants everything to continue as it once was with no consequences of any kind. The fallout from her actions has affected the family and extended family.

I wrote exWW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again.

I recently read something interesting, that if you start acting friendly and chummy with a wayward, it teaches kids that it's okay for a parent to commit adultery, break up a family because in the end, everyone will be friends again. If I were to go this route I would be disrespecting myself and next thing I would be chummy with OM. Associating with an exWW would be akin to swimming in a pool and expecting to get out without smelling of chlorine.

Sandy was correct when she mentioned waywardness is like a disease that affects everyone around a WW and I don't want to disrespect myself by associating with her.

On a reddit threat it spoke about no contact having an effect - first there is loss of the BS, followed by "loss consciousness" which is awareness the BS has disappeared. Then comes "fault consciousness" which is when the wayward realized that mistakes have been made and a line has been crossed.

Without "loss and fault consciousness" a wayward will never become fully aware of what they have done and the effects it has had.

I'm not doing this to get her back because I don't think I would ever want her back even if she did have a change of heart, but neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw WW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin"

Her unblocking you for the kids sake makes sense.... Until you go ahead and do this.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I texted WW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.
Another option would have been to just listen to your D. What was the point and taking your kid's comment and texting your XW? Seems like an emotional response here.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and I reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that "I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text was "Good bye"
Really?
From the outside - it looks like you got angry and texted her. She got defensive. You continued to 'remind' her of all she did to you. You got triggered and took it out on her.. when this could have ALL been avoided by not engaging at all


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.
I can't imagine this will work long term.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because WW dug a hole for herself?

Well honestly... because it comes with Divorce. D - Are you being honest with yourself? Because what you say ^^^ doesn't match the following.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Now this cousin of WW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.


If this is your TRUE reason then next time - try this.

"Wife. I understand that this may be difficult for you but cousin and the kids relationship is important to one another. Because of this - I will continue to take them to visit her."

Originally Posted by Drh2001
This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that WW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

If I'm in the neighborhood, I will occasionally stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her.

[quote=Drh2001]Why should the kids be deprived of family? The eldest one said she misses her family in another state because WW had a falling out with her other relative because her relative disapproved of WW's adultery and her leaving me for another man.
Are you listening and validating their feelings?? Or are you trying to use it as ammo for something?


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I wrote WW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again..

This is NOT a boundary. You gave your wife an ultimatum. Another control tactic.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
But neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.


D- I am reading so much hurt and anger in your post. No contact is probably good... but not because of her... but because you literally can't communicate with her w/o spewing your pain and hurt all over her.

No one says you have to put up with bad behavior... but you are trying to show her that versus just doing it regardless of what she thinks.

Stop punishing her and criticizing her. Life will do that all on its own and it doesn't need your help.
The biggest gift I could give myself was learning to be empathetic with my S and accepting where my spouse currently is....

If I felt triggered by something I always tried to give myself the time and space to understand the why. If after 12hr or 24hr I still felt the need to respond I tried to use "I feel" statements. I feel upset when I hear thru the kids you don't like my relationship with X. It removes blame.

Before responding to something think 10 10 10... how does this help me or affect in the next 10min, 10 days, 10months/years. 90% of the time responding to something filtered thru the kids is so not worth your circus or your money, but I can completely see how you felt... it was real... it was frustrating and hurtful to hear your child make those statements. Try in the future just validating your child with I see OR of if your child is old enough with how does rhat make you feel?

These situations knock the wind out of you for sure... they cut, they sting...

Your goal is to work hard on not responding out of emotion.

Blocking and unblocking are signs of severe hurt coupled with emotional immaturity.

When you can look through your spouses lens and see how she might feel betrayed that her cousin is "siding" with you and that it's her family and not yours. You can appreciate your child's comment comes from place of her hurt and less so about controlling you directly.

The human brain is wired to fill empty spaces with negative thoughts. This was key to our primitive survival... we had to suspicious of what MAY be hidden in the bush even if we had no proof there was something dangerous there.

Overall, there is no lasting harm here in your situation. Just another lesson and another goal of not reacting out of emotion. It takes a lot if hard work and focus to get there.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Originally Posted by Drh2001
So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw WW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin"

Her unblocking you for the kids sake makes sense.... Until you go ahead and do this.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I texted WW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.
Another option would have been to just listen to your D. What was the point and taking your kid's comment and texting your XW? Seems like an emotional response here.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and I reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that "I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text was "Good bye"
Really?
From the outside - it looks like you got angry and texted her. She got defensive. You continued to 'remind' her of all she did to you. You got triggered and took it out on her.. when this could have ALL been avoided by not engaging at all


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.
I can't imagine this will work long term.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because WW dug a hole for herself?

Well honestly... because it comes with Divorce. D - Are you being honest with yourself? Because what you say ^^^ doesn't match the following.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Now this cousin of WW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.


If this is your TRUE reason then next time - try this.

"Wife. I understand that this may be difficult for you but cousin and the kids relationship is important to one another. Because of this - I will continue to take them to visit her."

Originally Posted by Drh2001
This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that WW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

If I'm in the neighborhood, I will occasionally stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her.

[quote=Drh2001]Why should the kids be deprived of family? The eldest one said she misses her family in another state because WW had a falling out with her other relative because her relative disapproved of WW's adultery and her leaving me for another man.
Are you listening and validating their feelings?? Or are you trying to use it as ammo for something?


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I wrote WW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again..

This is NOT a boundary. You gave your wife an ultimatum. Another control tactic.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
But neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.


D- I am reading so much hurt and anger in your post. No contact is probably good... but not because of her... but because you literally can't communicate with her w/o spewing your pain and hurt all over her.

No one says you have to put up with bad behavior... but you are trying to show her that versus just doing it regardless of what she thinks.

Stop punishing her and criticizing her. Life will do that all on its own and it doesn't need your help.



thanks for reply.

I can see that but the control issue goes both ways and she feels she can control me by telling me who I can and can't talk to.

I don't contact this cousin very often - she is an old lady and she usually asks me about the kids etc. We don't discuss exWW.

I'm not really thinking in terms of ultimatums or control when I told her she can't contact me anymore. She told my youngest kid that she wants to remain "friends" but I don't want this.
Hi KitKat,

I've tried the empathy thing but her disrespect towards me, refusing to ask for my consent to move my kids to another state (had to contact my lawyer) riles me.

I'm not angry at my child for telling me what her mother said. I made that clear to her.

I will try harder not to react out of emotion next time.
I understand divorce changes things - so I don't go to parties that this cousin organizes and she knows that but she doesn't do it anymore anyway for the reasons I gave above.

She chooses to stay in touch with me and for my kids.

My kids don't have any contact with their mother's family because of what their mother has done.

I live a good distance from this cousin but I do pass her on the way to work and I sometimes take the kids with me and do something in the area. If I'm near, I'll stop by with the kids. There is no bad intention here.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I can see that but the control issue goes both ways and she feels she can control me by telling me who I can and can't talk to.

Try this again w/o saying bring your wife into it. She told her kid... she didn't tell you. You brought it up. Is it possible to just look at your part?

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I don't contact this cousin very often - she is an old lady and she usually asks me about the kids etc. We don't discuss exWW.
Is this in response to me questioning you about your motive? Do you see the discrepancies in comments?

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I'm not really thinking in terms of ultimatums or control when I told her she can't contact me anymore. She told my youngest kid that she wants to remain "friends" but I don't want this.
Then why feel the need to send the final email.

I'm encouraging you to go deeper here.
I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.


The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

Here is the discrepancy
You: "Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?"
This statement is clearly not about your kids - but your relationship with her family. This was the first thing you wrote. Your kids relationship was secondary.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

Did you?? Doubtful. First of all.. let's look at the facts. All she told her kid was that she didn't like something. Did she call you and talk about it no? YOU gave it so much power from there. YOU turned it into a problem. She just told you how she felt about it (after you initiated the conversation) and YOU felt the need to tell her what she deserved. Hate to tell you - but she is entitled to her feelings... just like you... whether you feel like she deserves them or not. Again.. that is your pain spewing all over her.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.
Yeah.. but do you think she can hear or believe that when you are calling her and saying she doesn't deserve her feelings??

Originally Posted by Drh2001
The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.

Honestly from what you described in this last post... all the disrespect came from you. All you are doing is trying to control a situation by trying to control her. All you are doing... is just showing her how hurt you are over and over again.

She might have hurt you... but it is YOUR responsibility to how you respond. Your anger got the best of you in this last interaction. Is that how you want to be?
Originally Posted by Valeska19
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

Here is the discrepancy
You: "Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?"
This statement is clearly not about your kids - but your relationship with her family. This was the first thing you wrote. Your kids relationship was secondary.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

Did you?? Doubtful. First of all.. let's look at the facts. All she told her kid was that she didn't like something. Did she call you and talk about it no? YOU gave it so much power from there. YOU turned it into a problem. She just told you how she felt about it (after you initiated the conversation) and YOU felt the need to tell her what she deserved. Hate to tell you - but she is entitled to her feelings... just like you... whether you feel like she deserves them or not. Again.. that is your pain spewing all over her.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.
Yeah.. but do you think she can hear or believe that when you are calling her and saying she doesn't deserve her feelings??

Originally Posted by Drh2001
The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.

Honestly from what you described in this last post... all the disrespect came from you. All you are doing is trying to control a situation by trying to control her. All you are doing... is just showing her how hurt you are over and over again.

She might have hurt you... but it is YOUR responsibility to how you respond. Your anger got the best of you in this last interaction. Is that how you want to be?



Of course not.

I see my relationship with her family and her family with my kids as one and the same thing. I don't know if what I said makes sense because I don't analyze it that way. It just is.

My kids only have me and their mother as family in our area. There are no relatives that live nearer. My youngest daughter has very few friends. I'm a believer in keeping touch with family and making an effort with them regardless of whether they're blood related, in-laws, or no longer related by marriage. It's something I've always done, to stay in contact.

I'm not good at the reply to quote thing as the board is slow today and when I went to edit a post it didn't edit properly.

So let me give some context. This is not the first time this has happened. I took the kids to see the same cousin a few months ago and that upset her.

So when this happened again, I worried about her throwing a spanner in the works and telling my kids not to see her family if they're with me.

At no point did I curse her out, so I think the accusation of disrespect is a bit of a tall order here.

When the kids are with me, who I see is my own business and not hers.


I don't see controlling a situation as being such an awful thing especially in this instance. Would you rather I didn't control and just succumb to whatever her desires are for any given day? I don't really get it. Would you rather I not speak to this relative anymore because it hurts her and crosses boundaries? Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.
I'm getting 504 Bad Gateway messages so if I don't respond right away or my posts don't get through that is the reason.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Of course not.

I see my relationship with her family and her family with my kids as one and the same thing. I don't know if what I said makes sense because I don't analyze it that way. It just is.

My kids only have me and their mother as family in our area. There are no relatives that live nearer. My youngest daughter has very few friends. I'm a believer in keeping touch with family and making an effort with them regardless of whether they're blood related, in-laws, or no longer related by marriage. It's something I've always done, to stay in contact.
No one is saying for you to change this.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
So let me give some context. This is not the first time this has happened. I took the kids to see the same cousin a few months ago and that upset her.
So let her be upset.. but for you to call her about it won't change anything. And it seems like it scared you so you did following.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
So when this happened again, I worried about her throwing a spanner in the works and telling my kids not to see her family if they're with me.
Yeah and tried to control it. But you can't. Even though you called - she could still tell the kids that. What you CAN control is still visiting them regardless of what mom says. Did your daughter say she didn't want to see her family because of what mom said? Did she say that family visits now stress her out.?? How could you have handled that differently??


Originally Posted by Drh2001
At no point did I curse her out, so I think the accusation of disrespect is a bit of a tall order here.
Are you familiar with Gottman and the 4 horsemen that destroys communication. It doesn't include cursing.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
When the kids are with me, who I see is my own business and not hers.
You made it her business when you called her to talk about it. Don't you see that? It could have just been an upset feeling... but you took it so much farther.


Originally Posted by Drh2001
I don't see controlling a situation as being such an awful thing especially in this instance. Would you rather I didn't control and just succumb to whatever her desires are for any given day? I don't really get it. Would you rather I not speak to this relative anymore because it hurts her and crosses boundaries? Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.

My hope is to see that you could have stayed true to yourself without showing your XW anything. You could have continued on the trip w/o engaging in a conversation at all with her. You could continue relationships w/o saying anything to her at all. You did not need to send that email - you could just live it in daily interactions.

Originally Posted by Drh2001
Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.

I am asking how you feel you were being morally right and fair (the meaning of righteous). Is it morally right to tell someone what they deserve?
You get to be upset with what she did to you. You get to create distance and protect yourself w/ boundaries. There are great books to help you communicate them effectively (a complete 180 from how you currently are). Unfortunately you do NOT get to tell someone what they deserve in this world. It is one thing to say it out of anger... another to believe it at it's core. Which do you feel is true for you?

I hope you can find a safe way to process all this pain. I truly understand how hard this all is...

(((D )))
Drh2001,

First, I hope your daughter is alright...a week in the hospital sounds serious.

You're getting good advice from Valeska19 & KitCat. It was your daughter who mentioned ExW's feelings about your relationship with her family, not ExW. You would've been better served to listen and validate with daughter and not reach out to ExW about it unless she broached the subject. For one, ExW will likely tell daughter not to talk to you about those things and it may erode some of daughter's trust with you. For another, you're the one initiating the confrontation w/ExW which isn't going to help with your co-parenting relationship. I concur the Google Calendar doesn't seem tenable over time considering kids. I've been handling most things over email fairly successfully, but a few things here and there on text.

You mention ExW moving out of state and the affair as well in the context of a text exchange about visiting her cousin. To me that shows anger spilling into other interactions. Your anger is certainly understandable considering her actions and betrayal, but if you can process it outside your interactions and keep things to business and the kids, it might help.

Hang in there Drh. I'm sure with your Ex leaving the state and you having the kids most of the school week has to be tough, but keep being a great dad to them.
I don’t see where she controlled you by telling you who you can and cannot talk to. She told you how she felt about you talking to the cousin, but I didn’t see where she said not to?

You are spewing resentment all over her. I did that for a little while myself in the beginning. You know where that got me? Absolutely no where except swimming in my own pain and resentment. And that leaks on over to the kids and doesn’t allow for coparenting or effective parallel parenting. When I stopped, it was me who felt much better. I wasn’t punishing my ex. He didn’t care one way or another. I was punishing myself and my daughter.

I learned it doesn’t matter who’s “fault” it was or “who started it” just ask yourself what’s best for your kids. Calm peaceful communication regarding the children? Focus on that as your goal.

Are you in IC?
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I don’t see where she controlled you by telling you who you can and cannot talk to. She told you how she felt about you talking to the cousin, but I didn’t see where she said not to?

And actually she didn't even say it to drh until their daughter said she didn't like it and he called her about it.

Drh, in the future I'd ignore these kinds of things. Personally, I'd talk to whomever I wanted and wouldn't care if she liked it or not. Why you felt the need to confront her over it is puzzling. Ginger I think makes a good point. You need to work through your resentment, and the best way to do that is through IC.
I echo what others have said. I think you are still too deep into your anger and resentment and it’s affecting your judgment and your end goal here which, at the moment, seems to be punishing your W. Look… I get it… my XH lied to me for years, had more than one affair, moved out when I found out about his activities and got engaged (now married) to the last one before the ink was even dry on our separation agreement. I have plenty to resent him for and feel righteous about (interesting word I never use). But the thing is Dr… that does nothing to change the situation…it only hurts me and ultimately hurts my kids for me to hang onto resentments. I’d be lying if I told you I don’t still have my bouts of anger on occasion but when that happens, I process it by coming on here and writing about it. I don’t say anything to my kids and I don’t call up XH or start sending him angry texts or emails. All that would do is continue the conflict and ultimately hurt my kids and they’ve been hurt enough already. I keep my interactions with him and OW (his wife now) very cordial and pleasant and when I do, I feel like a better parent. Yes, I could be a total b*tch to them and some would say, justifiably so, but that’s not the person I want to be and that is not the person I want my kids to have as a role model. They are watching you Dr… what are you teaching them? You may not like what your W did, that’s understandable, but she is still their mother and children need to have a positive relationship with BOTH of their parents. If your W blows that on her own, that’s one thing, but if your anger with her is putting them in the middle and making them feel like they can’t love her or spend time with her without betraying you, that is extremely unhealthy for them. Do not put them in that position.

Also…in the future… I would refrain from confronting your W about information you hear from your kids. My kids have said things to me that have triggered me for sure. When that occurs, I deal with my feelings quietly and I get on with my day. I want them to feel like they can say anything to me without having to worry that I’m going to get angry at their dad. That wouldn’t change anything with respect to XH but it would definitely harm my relationship with my kids and erode their trust in me. That is the last thing I would want.

Know this Dr…there will come a time when your hurt and anger will not be so present in your life. If you follow the advice on here and successfully navigate your grief, you may even find yourself happier than you were before this all happened. When you finally get to that place and you look back on how you handled everything, what do you want to see? What do you want your kids to be able to say about it when they are adults and think back to this time in their life? Do you want them to remember an angry, resentful guy who took every opportunity he could to punish their mom (that’s what you sound like here) or do you want them to remember a guy they had a lot of fun with who rose above the situation and did his best to protect them from all of that? If I were you, whenever you find yourself reacting and feeling those resentful feelings, I would ask myself that question before I did anything else. Choose better not bitter Dr.
Thank you for the advice everyone, it is appreciated.

I've blocked her number so this will reduce any temptation on my part to contact her. I really don't talk to her either way to be honest, even by email.

She announced she was moving my kids to another state last year with OM without asking me or the court for consent to do this. She'll stop by and pick my kids up without telling me when I have them during the week.

This is what I am dealing with, so you can imagine my unhappiness with her for disrespecting every agreement we have.
I should add that I have never contacted OM, nor seen him, nor intend to do so.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Know this Dr…there will come a time when your hurt and anger will not be so present in your life. If you follow the advice on here and successfully navigate your grief, you may even find yourself happier than you were before this all happened. When you finally get to that place and you look back on how you handled everything, what do you want to see? What do you want your kids to be able to say about it when they are adults and think back to this time in their life? Do you want them to remember an angry, resentful guy who took every opportunity he could to punish their mom (that’s what you sound like here) or do you want them to remember a guy they had a lot of fun with who rose above the situation and did his best to protect them from all of that? If I were you, whenever you find yourself reacting and feeling those resentful feelings, I would ask myself that question before I did anything else. Choose better not bitter Dr.


I like this quote. I am pretty much over her, it's just random situations that come up when I least expect them to. You make valid points and yes, I need to mindful by how the kids see me.

As for punishing the mother, I don't really think of it like that. I don't communicate with her at all, except for that one occasion last week. We use a shared calendar app to reserve our custody days and apart from an app for sending child support there is no other communication and that's just how I like it.

I told exWW that we could never be friends after what she did and I have stuck to this. During the early days after she moved out, she would break the custody agreement and pick the kids up on days and times that weren't hers. She would lie to my kids and tell them she was separated when she was living with me and the kids all the time she was conducting an affair. She left the marital home and moved immediately to OM's home, while telling me, "anyone would think I left you for OM." There was a lot of projection and gaslighting from her to me. This is why going dark is necessary. You cannot control a wayward mind nor should you attempt to. They are, as Sandy put it, "in complete rebellion."
Drh, I am a big proponent of making it clear to the WAS/WS that we aren't going to be buddies post D. My W said to me early on after BD "I hope we can still be friends." I told her, "I have lots of friends, I don't need anymore. That ain't happening."

Now, that doesn't mean you cannot be friendly in coparenting so please do not take it to mean that. I think you will find less stress in your life taking the high road as often as you can. That is why I seconded the suggestion to get into IC to process through your anger and resentment. So you can remain friendly and realize a lot of this stuff doesn't matter. That is why I said "who cares if she likes it or not that you talk to her cousin?" Seriously, you shouldn't care. But hearing that from your daughter seemed to set you off. There are going to be things you do she doesn't like. Things you do she doesn't like. You can't worry about it.

IC is hugely important and I highly suggest it. You've been through the ringer and you need someone to help guide you through the rest of the storm.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
[quote=Drh2001] She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin."
So she has you blocked and you have her blocked. Shouldn't be much communication.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I did text exWW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.
So as others have said, no need for this text.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary.
Si how about practicing validation here? "I understand why you feel this way."
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.
So this is you trying to control her.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
She responded that I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.
Why are you mad about the destroyed relationship with her sister when she helped her leave you?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text to me was "Good bye"
Well trying to control someone is abusive and I can understand why she said good bye.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.
So if there is an emergency with the kids how can she get a hold of you?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?
Well you don't necessarily have to but some relationships are lost during divorce. Unfortunately it is part of the process.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
On rare occasions, if I'm in the neighborhood, I'll stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her. Why should the kids be deprived of family?
I see nothing wrong with this and you should continue if you like.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
exWW has not changed her attitude one bit. She is still wayward in every sense. She resents me because I refuse to speak with her and says "you can't make me disappear". She doe not want to accept that things have changed due to her actions. She wants everything to continue as it once was with no consequences of any kind. The fallout from her actions has affected the family and extended family.
Well you know from Sandi's thread they do tend to live in fantasy land.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I wrote exWW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again.
What does taking ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done look like? An apology? A gift card? I am curious.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I recently read something interesting, that if you start acting friendly and chummy with a wayward, it teaches kids that it's okay for a parent to commit adultery, break up a family because in the end, everyone will be friends again.
I think there is some validity to this article. Lots of open ground to being cordial on kid related items and being BFFs.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
If I were to go this route I would be disrespecting myself and next thing I would be chummy with OM.
Again lots of open ground up to BFFs with OM.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Associating with an exWW would be akin to swimming in a pool and expecting to get out without smelling of chlorine.
huh?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Sandy was correct when she mentioned waywardness is like a disease that affects everyone around a WW and I don't want to disrespect myself by associating with her.
Are you afraid you will catch it?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
On a reddit threat it spoke about no contact having an effect - first there is loss of the BS, followed by "loss consciousness" which is awareness the BS has disappeared. Then comes "fault consciousness" which is when the wayward realized that mistakes have been made and a line has been crossed.
Just so you know most don't ever realize/think they did anything wrong.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Without "loss and fault consciousness" a wayward will never become fully aware of what they have done and the effects it has had.
I would not hold your breath DRH.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I'm not doing this to get her back because I don't think I would ever want her back even if she did have a change of heart, but neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.
Hmmm. You are not sure so best not to burn a bridge.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.
She's right you should move on. Can't change the past.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.
It is a long process so keep moving forward.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
I told exWW that we could never be friends after what she did and I have stuck to this.
I understand your decision, I just think you should tweak some things.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
During the early days after she moved out, she would break the custody agreement and pick the kids up on days and times that weren't hers.

Why did you not contact your lawyer?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
She would lie to my kids and tell them she was separated when she was living with me and the kids all the time she was conducting an affair.
Yeah WWs are pretty $hitty people.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
She left the marital home and moved immediately to OM's home, while telling me, "anyone would think I left you for OM."
huh?
Originally Posted by Drh2001
There was a lot of projection and gaslighting from her to me.
Most certainly but I bet it went both ways.
Originally Posted by Drh2001
This is why going dark is necessary. You cannot control a wayward mind nor should you attempt to. They are, as Sandy put it, "in complete rebellion."
Well dark with contact regarding kids.
Sorry…I’m having an internal reaction to the word “rebellion”. To me, that’s something a teenager does with a parent when they don’t like the rules. Rebellion implies one person is in charge and the other is subservient. That’s not my idea of a good marriage and I would want out if I felt like I had to rebel against my partner. I don’t know you Drh, I only know what I read but your posts come across as controlling. If I were you, I would really do some self reflection to figure out if this is something that contributed to the end of your marriage. Especially if you ever find yourself wanting to get married again.

Also… I don’t think being cordial and friendly with your kids’ other parent is teaching them that adultery and breaking up a family is okay. I have a good co-parenting relationship with my XH and, as KML said, he was one of the worst on here when you take into account the amount of lying and gaslighting he did as well as the emotional pain he put me and our children through for the length of time that he did before he left. I have been very clear with our children about how wrong it is to lie and cheat on a spouse and that I really, really hope that if they get married in the future, they will stay true to their vows but if they ultimately find themselves wanting out, they will leave in a respectful way that honours the love they once shared with that other person. They’ve seen and felt, firsthand, the traumatic consequences when it doesn’t happen that way so I have no doubt they get it. I don’t need to resent their dad and OW for the rest of my life for them to learn this lesson. Hanging onto anger and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. It only hurts you and, by association, your kids. So I agree with your W… you need to move on.

Think about where you want to be three years from now. What do you want your life to look like? What do you want your kids’ lives to look like? When they are going back and forth between homes, how do you want them to feel? When something unexpected happens (an illness, accident, etc..), do you want to be able to turn to your W for help or go it alone? My relationship with XH is such that if something happened suddenly and I needed him to look after our kids for an extended period, he would do it. And I would know they were safe and being treated well which would ultimately allow me to deal with my situation without having to worry about my kids. Now that I’m over most (not all) of the hurt and anger, that is the only thing I care about. Have faith that you will get there too and try to act in a way that will promote this kind of a relationship in the future…even if you don’t feel that right now.

I have the same question as LH. If you’ve blocked your W, how would she get a hold of you in an emergency. I’d rethink that decision if I were you. It doesn’t sound to me like she is spamming your inbox with all kinds of unnecessary texts and you are blocking her because she is harassing you. It sounds like you initiated the argument and then blocked her because you were angry at her response. In that situation, I would have expected her to block you.

I know right about now you may be feeling like we are piling on a bit. Please know that is not our intention. All of us on here completely understand how you are feeling and we’ve felt the same things. We GET IT. But many of us are a few years past all of it and we are advising you based on the knowledge and experience we have gained having gone through it. We are trying to help you get through this stage without doing things that you will fully regret later on when your feelings are less raw. (((HUGS)))
DRH in summary there is a middle ground between being one big happy family and blocking them on every form of contact.
Hi all,

I appreciate the advice.

I found a divorce support group held at a local church. There is actually a manual for this called "Divorce Care" It's over 140 pages and contains info on budgeting, depression, anxiety, anger management etc. I came in at the tail end of the course (it's about 12 weeks long) but they start it up again in the fall.

We had a couple of people join over Zoom.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Sorry…I’m having an internal reaction to the word “rebellion”. To me, that’s something a teenager does with a parent when they don’t like the rules. Rebellion implies one person is in charge and the other is subservient. That’s not my idea of a good marriage and I would want out if I felt like I had to rebel against my partner. I don’t know you Drh, I only know what I read but your posts come across as controlling. If I were you, I would really do some self reflection to figure out if this is something that contributed to the end of your marriage. Especially if you ever find yourself wanting to get married again.

Also… I don’t think being cordial and friendly with your kids’ other parent is teaching them that adultery and breaking up a family is okay. I have a good co-parenting relationship with my XH and, as KML said, he was one of the worst on here when you take into account the amount of lying and gaslighting he did as well as the emotional pain he put me and our children through for the length of time that he did before he left. I have been very clear with our children about how wrong it is to lie and cheat on a spouse and that I really, really hope that if they get married in the future, they will stay true to their vows but if they ultimately find themselves wanting out, they will leave in a respectful way that honours the love they once shared with that other person. They’ve seen and felt, firsthand, the traumatic consequences when it doesn’t happen that way so I have no doubt they get it. I don’t need to resent their dad and OW for the rest of my life for them to learn this lesson. Hanging onto anger and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. It only hurts you and, by association, your kids. So I agree with your W… you need to move on.

Think about where you want to be three years from now. What do you want your life to look like? What do you want your kids’ lives to look like? When they are going back and forth between homes, how do you want them to feel? When something unexpected happens (an illness, accident, etc..), do you want to be able to turn to your W for help or go it alone? My relationship with XH is such that if something happened suddenly and I needed him to look after our kids for an extended period, he would do it. And I would know they were safe and being treated well which would ultimately allow me to deal with my situation without having to worry about my kids. Now that I’m over most (not all) of the hurt and anger, that is the only thing I care about. Have faith that you will get there too and try to act in a way that will promote this kind of a relationship in the future…even if you don’t feel that right now.

I have the same question as LH. If you’ve blocked your W, how would she get a hold of you in an emergency. I’d rethink that decision if I were you. It doesn’t sound to me like she is spamming your inbox with all kinds of unnecessary texts and you are blocking her because she is harassing you. It sounds like you initiated the argument and then blocked her because you were angry at her response. In that situation, I would have expected her to block you.

I know right about now you may be feeling like we are piling on a bit. Please know that is not our intention. All of us on here completely understand how you are feeling and we’ve felt the same things. We GET IT. But many of us are a few years past all of it and we are advising you based on the knowledge and experience we have gained having gone through it. We are trying to help you get through this stage without doing things that you will fully regret later on when your feelings are less raw. (((HUGS)))


Dejavu,

I picked up the word rebellion from posts others had written. It is not meant to define a teen relationship but rather a wayward spouse who goes against marriage by having an affair.

My marriage felt imbalanced because I took care of everything, so I suppose in that sense you could say I was controlling.

I get what you're saying about having the ex spouse to fall back on and I'm happy for you that you've got to that position - I'm not personally sure I could ever get there.

We have an app called TimeFree that is like a calendar and allows us to leave memos for each other. I have the kids Monday to Friday and she gets them long weekends. She moved out of state with OM and recently works out of state so she's not near the kids to take them to their medical apts. It all falls on me.

The older one doesn't even go round anymore, maybe the odd day here or there but she has a job now and is expected to work weekends.

Thanks for your advice, I will take it to heart.
Drh2001,

Pulling this over from toughtimes180's thread to respond to you...

Originally Posted by Drh2001
A friend of hers encouraged her to ask me for an open marriage. I said no. But this friend was also cheating on her husband with a married man of four kids.

She divorced her husband, sold the home to buy him out and moved elsewhere. It was her who told my then wife "it's not cheating if you tell him you're separated."

Last year, my ex wife invited her to my daughter's sweet 16 and lo and behold, she turned up with her exhusband who is now back with her.

My relative told me that my ex WW is now the only member of the "leave your husband behind club."
It must be frustrating to see that woman wanting to reconcile with her husband when yours did not (or at least hasn't try to yet). I know sometimes I encounter situations with the couple still together having gone through (at least from my perspective) much rougher, more difficult relationships than mine. I think we had such a decent (ideal to some) situation, so what was so bad? Or, I'm at S7's art show at school and the four of us are walking the halls together to see his art and socialize with others, and I'm sure folks who don't know us/our situation see a perfectly a perfectly normal family, and it makes me think what was so bad we shouldn't be?

To me it enforces the idea that it's more about my ExW's journey than my bad actions (and I suspect this reflects your situation as well). Sure I've reflected on things I could've done better, and vacillate a bit, but overall I think our Exs were dealing with issues bigger than us.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Drh2001
Last year, my ex wife invited her to my daughter's sweet 16 and lo and behold, she turned up with her exhusband who is now back with her.
If he took her back to easy you can bet that is more than likely going to happen again.
I tend to think LH19 is right. How many sitches here have we encountered with a false R. Hope those do the hard work and two deal with their issues.

Hang in there, Drh2001. Wishing the best for you and your teenaged daughters.
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